##VIDEO ID:DIe04lWB83k## hey good afternoon everyone it is August 12th 2024 4:30 p.m. we are at 100 P Avenue Cape Canaveral Florida the city hall council chambers for the City of Cape Canaveral City Council budget Workshop I call this meeting to order and with that Mr city manager would you please lead us in the pledge thank you indivisible lice thank you city clerk please call the role council member Davis here council member Jackson here mayor proen Kellum here mayor Morrison here council member Willis here Council thank you all for being here and city manager and staff and all who are a part of this Workshop today and for those those who might be joining in on live stream we appreciate your time if you do intend to speak I ask you please fill out a card uh up at the front I do have a couple of cards here we are the public participation portion of the meeting uh with that first one I have two cards both from Miss Angela Raymond good afternoon I'm Angela Raymond I live at 7048 Silla court number 202 I'd like to speak about the tennis courts uh our tennis courts are an embarrassment I'd like to first of all challenge all of you to go to see what I'm talking about because I think if you see it you will fully comprehend the situation the Nets are the Nets are are tied together with zip ties and duct tape number one number two the lights still are not working properly so the groups that meet at night cannot play the way that they would normally play I think it's Monday and Wednesday nights I'm not positive and the third thing the scorekeepers that are on the edge of each Court we use those all the time they are just leaning to one side I think it's this is extremely embarrassing especially when we have other teams come to play here and every place around Bard County that we play at they're in mint condition I'm not talking just about the service I'm talking about everything and I think that we can do better as a City of Cape canav we have to take good care of everything that we already have this is good budgeting this is good maintenance it's like having a home you better take care of your roof when you have a lake and this is the same thing we need to take care of what we already have so thank you and you will hear this from me every single budget workshop and every single meeting so I challenge you and if you want me to come out to the tennis court so that I can show you exactly what I'm talking about please contact me at 32150 17939 thank you very much thank you there's two cards was that for both or do you no this is another idea that I have go for it thank you this is called one of my budget Solutions one of my brainstorms K canava and Koko Beach are two cities I've lived in a lot of places around the United States over my 54 years of marriage same person by the way way Doug Raymond and you know we travel a lot so I look for things when I'm out traveling and Cape canaver and KOCO Beach the people are so generous and um I've never lived in a place like this and I think they have a philanthropic attitude they're always looking for projects that they can donate to for example recently we had the Rotary Club come to us remember to ask about putting up the life-saving post at the beach and they saved the money and they paid for that I think that's a wonderful thing so my idea recently and my travel up toward New York we stopped in Florence in the Carolinas and I went to the Veterans Park and I have video and I also have photographs evidence that I can show you and what I found there at this Veterans Park was just beautiful but the best thing about the Veterans Park it all didn't come out of the city budget everything that I stopped to look at each part of it was donated by dentists doctors business Rotary Club Kanas Daughters of the revolution uh auxiliary from the VFW American Legion so the way that we could stretch our budget for example if we want to enhance Veterans Park or if we want to do things over at the Civic Hub is we go to ask our community and our different organizations and hopefully they will contribute because everybody has a special something that they're interested in like me courts thank you thank you appreciate that and the idea the name of that was it Florence Carolina South South sounds like thank you that is all the cards I those are all the cards I have now if anyone intended to speak please bring one come on forward um seeing none for those who are home and would like to uh participate during this time of the meeting we ask that you please raise your hand uh we will unmute you and give you an opportunity to speak looks like no hands are raised at this time with that we will go ahead and close public participation of the meeting bring it back to the discussion item we're at 4:37 pm. always like to point out when we are ahead of schedule just take that moment there which is great thank you uh let proposed fiscal year 2425 budget and five-year Capital Improvement plan is the discussion item and with that I think it makes sense if the council's okay let our city manager kick us off here sound good Mr city manager thank you mayor um we have good news um city council uh adopted a tentative proposed millage rate that was a middle of the road rate um we were concerned last time we met about being able to do all the things that we had identified that we wanted to do but we've got some good news that we can get there and I'm just going to give a broad overview of it um and John will be glad to provide more details um the first one is um the organizational chart as proposed um obviously that was built around uh the situation we found ourselves in at the time but Personnel changes have um now made it possible that we can keep the structure the way it is currently so with seven departments that is not adding the eth department um and my recommendation is that we keep community and economic development as one department for this budget that will save us um some [Music] $160,000 yeah right also um your memos that came in uh within the last week or two uh the fire department um explained that they do have to increase some personnel there uh to meet some mandates that they're under but also can push the fire TR purchase out one year they're for thereby saving us 136,000 this fiscal year um also um we are very lucky to receive some favorable quotes from Oak Lane that just came in recently where if I don't want to count our chickens before they hatch because nothing is you know done until the the contract is Inked but we we're getting we've gotten quotes that are at our budget of 800,000 up to a million and there's some higher than that of course too but I'm very hopeful that we're going to be able to come to council with a contract in September uh with a low bid of approximately 800,000 if things still hold so for all those reasons we can achieve middle of the road um as a as the Ador tax assessment rate Mayor John do you want to explain anything else there uh yeah let me let me just start off by saying um I met with all council members when one-on-one with the city manager and um we discussed all these different scenarios we talked about the memos and whatever first off let me just say that the discussion I had with Council um with the current news that we just got with the the bids or whatever this and I'm happy to say this because I've been here 12 years and we were going into unchartered territories which I didn't like but uh uh we should not go into our have to go into our unobligated reserve and we had some detailed uh discussions with the mayor and the council members and if things hold true on the bids and we're hopeful they will then um The unobligated Reserve becomes a nonissue because we had anticipated that potentially that project would cost 1.2 million and if it comes in 800k well 800k is what we have in the budget already are there any questions on that before I go to my next subject okay you will come um moving forward I just want to put Council and just this Frame of Mind to where we're at on July 16th Council uh approved a middleof the road uh millage rate the 34941 okay and when you did that what that required then as you saw my followup memos I sent you and basically said okay this is what it does to the budget but how do we how do we get there and um like the city manager was saying well we we would get there by um having to H uh cut $241,000 out of the budget but based on what the city manager just provided you well that's not the case then we we make the the U middle of the road now the reason I'm bringing this up is that by being at the middle of the road what could be accomplished tonight of course you're gonna have discussions about you know maybe roll back or whatever but I need to explain to you that since tonight is not where you're going to approve any resolution or ordinance or what have you what's going to happen is based on what the city manager said about the changes in the budget the changes in the organizational chart we're going to provide you at the hearing on three September with a new budget that reflects those changes and we will be at that point that's uh that's as far as we can get tonight with the published budget because since nothing else changing even if Council was to say hey we want to look at changing the millage again or whatever obviously that's going to have to go to the September 3rd hearing where you'll approve that then um Joey and myself on September 3rd whatever happens will go in based on whatever gets passed and we'll make all those adjustments so then when the second and final budget hearing comes on the 17th of September we will go ahead and have that ready for you and you will see that real time that budget that adjusted budget so that's all the point I want to get across is based on your actions on the 16th you did the middle of the road so based and based on what has happened here where now Council doesn't have to say well I want to cut this and this to get the middle of the road we will prepare a budget for you and that's what you'll be looking at at the first hearing on September 3D okay now any further discussions about other Cuts or wherever Council may want to be then that probably is what will be that might consume this uh the rest of this uh meeting and I believe but that's all I got and circle back if needed for now but thank you one technical question um there was an message of being disconnected on the computer here so just letting you know Amy's back there working with mic on it right now trying to reconnect awesome thank you okay okay and I should State um council member Davis did say so everyone is on the same page might know it I think 5:30 pm yes she will need to take off um and with that and thank you for where you're going you leue of cities I believe Coco Beach city thank you I think uh we can go ahead and discuss council member Davis being that I think you have a little bit shorter time frame if there's anything you'd like to talk at this time well I would like to see us just stay where we're at since we don't have to cut anything back or or or cut everything out because I mean we all know once we we put stuff off we either never get it done or it costs us more money so at this point by staying at this current rate we can keep everything including tennis courts and everything like that without having to cut other things so I am for just keeping as is I don't think we need to go to roll back because if we do that then that means we do have to cut back more and um I think I you know we're not if does I mean if everybody understands if we do roll back that may be good for this year but do you understand I'm sure you do I'm not questioning I'm ask you know just stating the the consequences that it's going to cost us in the next couple years you know that's going to it's the city's going to have to pay for the in the next couple years so I think we should just stay where we're at so the stay at the the middle of the road or the yeah stay at the middle of the road we don't have to do any cut back or cutbacks and I think that would be good then we can get our projects done I say another thing too um just talking about the presidential streets um if we do go to roll back then you know we're talking about doing the first presidential Street and then doing maybe doing the other ones later I I think that if we go back to rollback then and you may correct me John then we're going to have to take out a bond and depending how much cut back how much rollback we do then the the greater the amount of the bond so we would have to take out the city would have to take out a bond to finish you yeah you can you can explain you mention my name so I'll go yeah um well basically what you're stating there I understand what you're saying if we continue go to roll back every year you keep deferring programs and then um you keep chopping off four or 500,000 from the budget when it when I talk about the presidential streets there was a discussion in here that occurred it's probably in the minute someplace or whatever but when we talked about Municipal Bond or what have you the discussion was well let's do the first presidential Street see how we land and then see what's our path forward our path forward is going to be that if you're GNA do 20 I don't know how many presidential streets or 14 Presidential streets 16 16 if you're G to do 16 I could tell you that we will not be able to do 16 presidential streets in this city based on our our solely our budget alone and the the the CRA but I'm talking about collectively to budget because the the um going to roll back is going to deplete the CRA okay so I just tie up all the ends so my my prediction would be is that if the city is serious about doing presidential streets and you want to get it all done in the next 30 Years it might require at least maybe a $25 million bond for 30-year 30-year note and uh that might be what the city will have to do because I don't see how the city could fund the presidential streets with the budget we have every year if each each Street might cost let's just say it cost $3 million well one street might cost $4 million three or four years from now I don't know what's going to be going on with the economy maybe it'll cost $5 million so so the point is is the city will not be able to get out and do all these streets without doing getting some type of bond or note or what have you that's that's the point I'm making it's impossible there's not no funding available within the city to do 16 presidential streets we just don't have the CRA doesn't even have that type of uh funds that's all you council member David all right the workshop so anybody particular order J no I'm ready I got just some questions to start off with and then I'm listening to do so um first of all the fire rescue services are adding three full-time and one part-time firefighters means they're here are we is that because of the port are they sharing in that cost well I believe the fire department's here and the chief would love to tell you about that first of all it is a shared cost between the city and the for um but we have not the city has not added a single person to the department since 2008 we've added 800 74 hotel rooms oh wow yeah food trucks Turing stations short-term rentals and and I don't know how many vacation rentals and all of those are tasking us and we put the truck off but the truck is a 20-y old truck it's 20 years it's a backup but it's 20 years so next year we're going to be standing back here asking for additional personnel and that truck to be replaced um we before Co on your agenda the night that Co struck was an agenda item that the city manager and staff had approved to add the additional nine Personnel that we needed preco so next year I will be standing in front of you and I won't be so nice to John and say you can you can give the truck another year because it's not going to be another year on that truck and the sooner we order it because right now it takes three years to build them okay but the sooner we order it um and we always pay upfront because it's a substantial savings I think the last one was $90,000 yes so any else thank you thank you Chief Sergeant okay um like I said I got a few questions um we can start out on page 22 of the budget I have a question on that what was that number again page 22 page 22 um under federal grants federal grants um so this is the general fund o1 title yep thank um my question is um it was 956 th500 it went down 70% to 285,000 as revenue is that the 285,000 that was it was counted as Revenue towards the Civic Hub a grant that we were no no that that has to do with the grants that we if you look at your summary in your budget book those like the bcso and the C5 and those those grants there that we put out to the right where they're Grant funded that's what that is this year last year that was a whole other uh that was a whole other you know whole other ball game that's that's that's other other items but the Federal grant you're looking at we're looking at this year is now 285 okay yeah what that is too is Council should know that when that's the result a lot of when we had the hurricane Ian and these other things Zach and his Department went out and worked to get those grants for our projects not everybody not every city was entitled to those grants but Zach was able to go out and get those so when we do the bcso project over here and and um we say that it's going to cost 160,000 well 75% of that is grandf funded then so that's where you 285 yeah okay so the 285 that was in the budget when we bought paid for the Civic Hub property it was put in there as a grant that we were going to receive 285,000 I don't have the paper with me right now but there was a grant for the Civic Hub that's what when the breakdown of the cost there was the $285,000 Grant and that's why I was wondering is that that was a grant if I recall when that that was when that was going on there was an expectation of getting grant funding it that's never happened yeah that hasn't enough to do with that okay but I know what you're talking about yeah but we had anticipated that was back with the um when we were buying the property yeah okay okay um page 26 um I have a question on the uh Financial Services tuition reimbursement of $50,000 yes when it wasn't in the budget last year well that's because the Personnel we didn't have Personnel uh members of our staff who were pursuing master's degrees whatever actually this young man sitting next to me our investment in the future um that's money that's being put in the system because he will be pursuing his Masters next year okay all right thank you um page 27 um what was the last page number that they just pulled up 26 um under banking fees an increase of 183.0 per from 10,000 to 30,000 what that's a lot of difference yeah just a second let us look at our budget workbook we got that all right here okay thank you this is Page 27 27 and I was just trailing a little behind would you mind while they're looking that up stating again the banking fees okay increas oh I see from $1,740 to 30, 480 okay yes so Mickey Joey's showing me here where he has actually talked to the bank and and got got the numbers Wells Fargo has raised our fees considerably yes maybe we should find a new bank um you know I know it's easy to say that and you know what that's the first thing I would say however changing your bank is a major major step I'm sure and and so that might have increased and you know we're getting hit from every angle right but that might have increased but it would be probably scar to know what Chase or maybe some other bank might be charging because it might be more than that but you know what I'm saying so if the if the city ever decided to change Banks that is a significant undertaking yeah you know so that's a big increase yep that is significant yes um okay on page 27 as well um the line for um membership and training it went from 11,300 to 60,500 and then it says minus 6.7% is that that can't be right that might be a formula error but let me look in the workbook here and let's see what makes up that $60,000 well what driving up well with driving that up mickeey though is just go to the other page that reference to other questions because we added $50,000 for the Master's Degree that's where that's coming from and I'll check that uh that formula there because that should be going the other way so yeah just see what the thing is there um real that so page 26 gives the explanation the 60,000 the tuition reimbursement yeah tuition reimbursement you so is that just for Joe I mean is there any other I believe that's just for Joey I I don't um I don't think there's anyone else on staff pursuing their masters if there is I will find out for you but I don't think so that just the annual cost for the Masters that's the total that's the total cost okay yeah thank you um okay two more more questions and then I'm done for a minute uh page 91 I know that we pushed the in the I building out for a year um I'm just you know as we look at this budget and try to rearrange things or now we don't have to do so much rearranging but I think this is an important building um I think it's important to the employees out there um it's been pushed out since 2008 and I think it's time that we I don't know you know again we' have to talk about it and discuss it but I did take some pictures of the building when I was out there and it is in dire need of some help and if we push it out again it's only going to be more money I'll pass these down um and the employees some of them eat their lunch in there and there's holes in the walls and it it's very not safe I would say and not good um for the employees and their morale um you know we talk about retaining employees and it seems like Public Works is the always the one that gets The Chopping Block right away um for things that they need out there I don't know if we can at all try to you know find the money to get that done this year um yeah that that's that that would not happen this year there are not funds available but I will agree with you since I think I've worked for the city we've pushed that out every every year but that's because um the other projects you know were more um critical at the time and uh that's just the fun funds we couldn't afford so that's been getting pushed out and yeah the price of that's going up but um as far as doing anything for that project this year there's no funds available okay um my last question for right now is on page 130 130 um the pump enclosure structures 1, 560,000 I I don't understand I was out there looking at them too they're halfway done there's some are they don't have a roof but they have you know the basic structure of to me and I I should have asked this earlier but we bid it got went out for bid in 200 15 16 it got bit on we spent over um it's been in the budget for 750,000 for the last couple years um I have it here somewhere so my question is why isn't it done and why are we spending in another million dollars on well this is a project that's Sr funded so I'm G to I'm going to turn this over to June or Tim and let them explain that this is a very very unique type of project that's going on and it's a bit could be a bit complicated so Tim if you could lay that on before if you don't mind project number it is in the CIP ww17 ww7 thank you so three um in the 2024 budget there was 750,000 in the 2022 budget or I'm sorry 20223 budget 750,000 in the 2021 budget there was 3015 301,000 Sr I just don't understand why it's costing so much money and why it's halfway done if we put it out for bid and they bid a certain amount of money why is it so the the construction agreement the construction agreement was signed in 2022 so work started shortly after probably in the middle of 2022 sometime um the engineer found a lot of issues with underground utilities and stuff so they really had to re-engineer all the buildings almost every single one of them except for the uh well even structure number four they had issues with which was the one with the rollup that were on the wrong side of the the building it should be on the inside um but I believe that the funds had stayed the same from the time that we uh signed that contract I will definitely go back and look into it I'm not sure why there's different amounts in each fiscal year uh there shouldn't be and if there is maybe because we were hoping or thinking that it would roll over into to the next fiscal year and continue and that's a great part of it Tim yeah exactly okay that's what I fig yeah there's other projects because it was partially being done and there was goingon to be this much work done and I even believe that this is the project that has the amendment on it for the srf yes yeah and uh so that that that has change the scope and um you know it's it's a continual monster I'll say of a project and uh you know hopefully it'll be done what is the what do we expect will the completion dat be September of next year or well I'm embarrassed to say but we had to extend it to a total of 570 days past the original date that we were saying that it was going to be done so we're looking at over two years already and the government recognized this and um they call me and they even because this is taking so long and they understand where at in the project they're not requiring payment from us on the loan because it keeps getting pushed out yeah so we we don't have to pay it for another year now right we had to do an amendment to the original srf loan to push it out further because of all the issues that we ran into doing this project so that just kind of pushed the project out further so is there a way we could get how much we've spent already on this project well absolutely we could just look in our system and see what you know you know where where we're at right now Joey take a note on that and and let John Let's also get back to the Council on the funding history of this in the various budgets of the past well Todd we can do that but that's going to be a little bit complicated because um if Council desires us to go back uh to when 2022 2021 well the whole loan was with lift station 5 and when oh gosh for the loan itself 202 or just this project yeah no no no just this project Todd or the the loan itself just this project yeah this project we would what we'd have to do is um we can go back and research that for you but we'll have to see what was done in year one and then we'll see where we landed and what the scope of the work was in year two and what represented that amount and we'll see where we landed and then um the current year so we can do it it'll take a little bit of work but I'll make a note of it and I'll send Council a you know I'll get with junan and Tam and will send you a memo stating you know how that program moved along and what the cost is that good okay is it possible to um use srf loans to this is srf funded to repair the building the 700,000 could we oh you're talking I am building that's not an srf project could it be I don't know the answer to that question would June that doesn't fall under the srf that's a con that's a construction that's inter infrastructure maintenance and uh srfs only for Wastewater and storm water projects yeah so no the answer is no okay that's all I have right now thank you thank you Tim on mayor per Tim Kellum I just want to clarify will you state you s stated the year and then you shared the amount would you go through those one more time in the 2021 budget there was 31,500 srf funds in the 2223 budget there was 750,000 srf funds in the 2324 budget there was 750,000 in srf funds and now there's 1, 560,000 so there's going to be carryovers there on things that weren't done so it's not like that money was actually spent well that would be but that srf loan uh with the totality of it you know on where we're at on it we could figure out that where we're at but it's it's obvious that when you look at something like that it's not being completed every year that's why we're pushing it out and pushing it out well I think that that the structures need to be covered to save us more money down the road to cover the pumps so um that's all I have right now in my final question before going over I think Council M Jackson Council M Willis certainly want to say something the last changes we made to the informational only item for Council agendas where we started putting city manager and of the cips in with uh how much because we we like this sheet that we're all looking at on the shared screen we can see the cips we intend to do but as the years going along it's hard to follow which ones were being completed and so I don't have that last one but my Hope was that that might be able to help yes that's good point good point and like if you look at the August uh finan um it's the it'll be the July July financials or June financials Joey in August June June we always run a month behind because of the timing of everything um so that and that's the sheet that the mayor asked us to do eight months ago which has been a really good a good guide so that will be contained in that informational thing so if you look at the monthly financials there's an Excel spreadsheet there and what the mayor's talking about is any project that's $100,000 or more is represented by tabs in for the various departments and it shows where where we are completion wise and the dollar value so um that's that that will help a lot that might actually solve some of our that that'll answer some of our questions um for the sake of not being confused I purposely if we're doing June financials I advise the department directors to show on that same sheet that's right with the June financials where we're at at the end of June because we could show you where we're at at the end of July but the financials run a month behind but I want you I wanted Council to see Apples to Apples because because like for instance um you know Veterans Park we we show it was comp uh 85% completed in in June I'm just using example but actually if I had showed you July's with Junes you would have saw it was it was completed already so it's just um whenever you see the financials the Excel spreadsheet that the mayor's talking about for the CIP projects coincides with that month otherwise you're looking at two different things okay thank you okay yes thank you council member Jackson or council member Willis well I know I'm I'm going through my first budget process and this probably has nothing to do it CP it but I'm wondering how did that engineering company Tim miss the utilities that were there because that can absolutely increase the cost of a project so I won't be using the company again okay so I had no idea they've missed a lot of stuff this has been a very difficult project uh that's been going on for like I said two years that should have been done probably about a year ago well and I know how meticulous you are with the things that I've worked with you on so far so I just heard that and I could not believe my ears because that increased our project cost potentially with a a situation that they created uh the project cost actually stayed the same believe it or not so it just extended the time frame then right well the time frame just extended uh a couple changes that we made uh putting a manand door into one of the structures that should have been there to begin with um that of course increased the price for the mandor uh things of that nature would change uh but when it comes to other things like uh when they were building structure number four there was an I beam coming off of the contact chamber area that they had to cut off and that was like $1,300 to cut it off things like that small little change orders um increased the price but we're not looking at an overall increase uh because it's two years down the road though thank goodness yeah that's good I just I'm sorry my ears could not believe what I was hearing on that so yeah is it to Dawn until I get to other things I have some other things I wanted to pull out Cil member Willis Tim did our contract have any kind of a delivery penalty you talking about on the time frame part yes it can um but it it normally goes towards the contractor and since the contractor wasn't at fault it was the engineer that was at fault I'm going to have to look into that okay all right all right thank you I want to Circle back to what mayor protim Kellum was talking about and if we go to page 69 council member Willis I assume that was it for now go ahead it was it was I'm I'm going to give this right back to you I am very sorry no no go ahead go ahead just want to confirm that the line item under the yep Capital outlay perfect for the pump en closure [Music] structures 564 228 yeah pumping closure structures sorry 2,736 perfect so the and if this was said I apologize the total cost of this product project I think we're at one that's the total cost from beginning to end to do the pup enclosures that is the total cost that we're showing for me to for me to all for me to know that I I basically would just go back and look at the costs incurred and what's left what work is left to be done and we'll get the cost of that work and then I could I could bring that together um Tim on the 1.5 million that we have in the budget now the I can't remember the the the total of the srf loan do you recall that I'd have to look it up to and you know what I might have actually um I do want to add though that that that 1.5 whatever number that's up there is including engineering fees as well okay and srf Loan what what is what srf loan is that representative of [Music] w548 58 right 4 is it 58 anyway 58 yes 550 58 okay so okay so the remaining loan is $1.4 million and the mayor's question is how much how much has we are we actually spending collect L totally on this project so mayor we're gonna we'll get that answer for you okay that is it perfect thank you so the total pump enclosure cost if I'm reading this correctly we have expensed $2,736 towards pump enclosures we had and in 2122 just like um well mayor Tim Kellum you I think some numbers you were looking oh you were talking about the budget so the numbers the budgeted amount in 2021 from your research was roughly $ 31,500 yes 21 and if we go to that same line item in 2122 here out of the way I understand this out of that 31,500 we spent $2,736 out of that that year and so to me when we passed that budget the cost was you know 300,000 there's 275,000 left over well the next year we spend 256,000 of the 275,000 left over and then last year to your point I think May Tim we we we budgeted for the 750,000 and we are going to we have spent that 750,000 is that correct John this year that's what I'm I'm going to refer back to where we're at on that Excel spreadsheet and I'll look in vsna and see exactly where we're at but the way you're analyzing this mayor that's that's correct if you look at the first two years they're the actuals we spent three $281,000 the mayor then goes into 2324 and and asks have we spent the 750k I'll be able to very easily look that up and see exactly where we're at there um and then um project where we'll be at the end of September and then add those totals to uh the 1.5 million and then we'll see where we where we're going to land totally but um yeah because if you look at your budget book we did we spent $25,000 in 2122 $256,000 in 2223 and you know it just keeps carrying forward because we hadn't spent the 300 something ,000 yet and now we're saying we're going to spend $750,000 this year and I'm not sure that that it's I'm not sure it's that close because we have not made that progress because we have had delays correct okay all right oh mayor yes as of okay I got it up right here as of June for this year we've spent 357,000 of the 750 okay so that column would be very valuable in this budget because there's not I yeah original and amended I I I think that makes sense like the backo is a good example where we come back in and added the 45,000 and amended it after the originally adopted but just one more column of actual Joey is given us the information 35657 357 of as of June 30th okay so if my mental accounting is correctly the original 301,000 that was put into that budget was pretty much spent in the first two years and then we added an additional 750,000 in you see why it's a little hard for us absolutely to follow it but 281,000 in the first two years we're going to check and see if um that three um that 357 is just for this year okay 2324 so 357 and the 281 8813 so you're looking at 6 um $648,000 so far we've spent and of course the year is not over yet but I don't know what's going to happen out there through September 30th so we know 3574 a little over $600,000 right 648 so we've put $648,000 into pump enclosures and we still have another I guess the question not for today is well how much more do we have to go to complete and that's and that's the question do we truly have do we truly have $1.5 million to spend if we've already spent 648,000 the reason why I rolled over that much is because of the uncertainty of this project um it might not need that much uh we might be spending as we get to the next fiscal year budget which I'm hoping we do start up again and some of it might already be spent um I the way I look at it is I tried to add it into the next fiscal year as one to be done with the the project um but like I said if we're taking chunks out of it as we're going through the budget process then of course it'll be less than what it says thank you Tim yes council member Willis thank you yeah I just wanted to follow on with that because I was thinking while we were talking about other projects can we not put on the cips the individual cips everything that has been spent to date for that project so that we have it all in the same place of where what else is being funded further out what has already been spent what has been rolled over I'll answer that question absolutely absolutely I mean it's something that's never been asked uh I've never had had anybody ever asked that question but obviously we could take the Inception to date costs yeah when we do the cips for the next fiscal year and simply put it have a column out there or have Inception to date where we're at and then have what it's going to cost for the current year yes we could do that I think that will remove a lot of confusion on our part okay because we'll know exactly where we started what we spent what is still left to do and what we have council member Willis uh with that suggestion on August 12 2024 I'm asking Council that we will begin implementing that in 2526 okay that's so going to council respectfully it is it is a bit feeling like you're Flying Blind what's that I'm I'm being very honest with you that that we're Flying Blind well when we just zoom in on this the no no oh oh I was gonna say I yeah my blinders aren't on not ever I didn't say no I'm saying that we just take that one line item for example we see1 and a half million dollar of new money but it's really hard for us to understand that $50,000 has been expensed here and I think the cips and the informational only that the actual that's that's what because it changes every month absolutely it's an impossible it's in there right yeah mayor it's you're right it's impossible for Council to know the carryovers on every one of these cips absolutely I I agree and even even for me we've had $2 million projects done and then it only gets 600,000 along and then then we're then we're going into the next year and we got to do 1.4 million but then something's added to that project and now it's 1.8 million but then Council would never know we spend $600,000 the year before I understand that mayor I we so we could bring a little Clarity there I I got no problem doing that that's member Willis that's all I've got for right now council member Wilson I'll appreciate you um you know thinking about that when you're on vacation and coming up with that question in Alaska I really do appreciate it I did not think about that one vacation um Mr Mayor yes may I have another question on the on the 68 the srf loan proceeds so these are other projects that are funded by srf as well as the enclosed no the the proceeds are put that's the revenue number if you're going to have um srf programs your srf proceeds if it's srf funded will has to match your srf funded program so if you notice on page 68 your srf loan proceeds is 1.5 million well your srf program on page 69 is 1.5 million okay yeah so that's just there has to be a revenue with the expenditure otherwise the the budget would never balance so this is just the lawn Autumn John for that Revenue okay let's do this how about we take a five 10 minute break I know Council that'll give council member Davis and all of us just a chance to break here is that okay Council we'll reconvene let's say 5:35 just a quick one okay sounds good okay s e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we'll get started here in about a minute or so well not a remember Jackson is but for the sake of time I think we can go ahead and start back awesome all right give it 20 more seconds alrighty as everyone's coming back in call the meeting back to order we're going to reconvene the meeting we were working through the budget Workshop discussion item here and believe we left off is there any council members this time where did we leave off thank you so Mr city manager I think you get to hear a few of us talking and I certainly get some comments is there anything that we need to you need to say or share from what you heard um no I I said it all in the beginning and I agree with all the things that we've talked about here especially with improvements with the CIP form council member Jackson okay as we have um everyone knows that I'm pretty focused on the fact that our citizens have a lot of adverse things going on right now especially people in condos that are dealing with both the off the charts increases in insurance but also sd4 I know two complex Lees that were just uh it just informed me that one of them had a $440,000 assessment another one had a $30,000 assessment to fund their reserves for SBD 4 which is before the end of the year is what most condo complexes are doing um another one on Ridgewood just went up to close to ,000 for their dues monthly now that's like a house payment and we have a lot of cond in this area and they're now sitting on the market longer and we saw last week where the market crashed the stock market um we saw cryptocurrency and I've got figures on what was wiped out in the cryptocurrency markets and all of these things so for me I'm still uh crypto currency on Monday the 5th lost a trillion dollars the US market had 1.93 trillion Japan's Market was in in a meltdown uh losing 18.2% in two days with a 12.4% plunge on Monday Taiwan had the first one in uh the most horrible one in 57 years uh we had Nasdaq futures down a th000 points and um burshire haway was dropping shares none of this is in your stuff just so you know so I'm still very focused on the fact that we have to as a council in my opinion prioritize what we're doing we have things just like um Miss Raymond was saying that tennis court needs work you know what that's an amenity we already have so seriously if we if we as a council need to go over and look at those Nets and see what is needed in that tennis court that's something we already have we owe it to our citizens to maintain what we have um and that includes infrastructure and we're looking at many things in the budget for infrastructure that are uh you know past du so as I look at this budget and I'm looking at the CRA funds and what we're spending on new things that's concerning to me because we have old things that appear to me to be going into disrepair in some aspects now the other thing um I'm and you all know I'm focused on the storm water and run off down on the presidential streets and the and just like uh Mr Deo was saying with the presidential streets we have a situation where if we started with three streets we couldn't get them all done with the the funds that are out there for us to complete um the entire presidential Street project and that's supposed to bring some relief for storm runoff however at a huge cost um we have experienced and all of you have runoff in the presidential streets when we have a short storm with you know two or three inches and so I've been working with the uh with Tim and also with the city manager and talked with John about this as well about doing a small immediate project for storm water relief in the area down there where the water is accumulating Tim has put together a CIP on that and Tim can you come up and give us an explanation of what we've discussed we have problems with drains and we have problems with those properties that have have full concrete for the entire block and it was mentioned in both the me hunt report and again and Kimberly horn and until we get rid of some of the issues that have been created over a long period of time due to people not knowing and not having all of the things built out in our city our city is growing and we've got a and in my opinion we have to look at these things for our budget when we look at budget so had I've worked with everyone here the staff and U Mr Morley and Tim and it looks like this could be done out of storm water funds and so Tim if you would help me out here all right so what we're looking looking at right now is non-presidential areas or areas that won't be impacted by the presidential Street uh redo uh these these but in the presidential streets area but within the presidential Street area uh thank you for that Todd that's a good clarification um yes around the corner literally around the cor we are looking at full blocks that are nothing but asphalt from the the apartments all the way out to the uh curbing um and we see that we could possibly put some infrastructure there that would take on uh hundreds and hundreds of gallons of water before it actually reaches the system um we can actually find many different areas throughout the city that we can do these small little uh pilot projects and uh decrease the flow of runoff through the center Street Basin as well as doing the Center Street Pump Station so we'll get those little areas to help out as well um during the kimley horn study it mentions in there somewhere where it says uh don't let just these different options stop there always look for areas that we could look for toh decrease the flow of water throughout the whole system um so we have uh pinpointed a couple areas that we would like to do some storm water uh infrastructure to keep all that water out of that system and would you describe to them Tim what that is because really it's uh it's not a totally um ins project to be able to do and one one section that we discussed what is the street that runs there by film more we're looking at Magnolia if I'm not mistaken weren't we Todd yeah yeah Magnolia north south north and south correct and I had had this in the last um um council meeting but we didn't get to it um that's when the meeting was ended so we have all of that if you look at that agenda it has all the paperwork in there it has some Aerials that shows you these properties where the the concrete or pavement goes all the way out to the Curbing and and Tim and I have discussed this and with Magnolia one of the things that I ran into in the LA um with Debbie was that a couple of the drains on Filmore just a tiny bit of the debris resulted in the entire Street flooding and it took three minutes to drain when that was cleared out well that's one of the parts of the city is what Tim educated me on and this section that he looked at doing first actually goes down and the the storm drain turns into that section of Filmore so this would actually alleviate some of the runoff from even getting into that storm drain and going down into that low area so now Tim keep going I'm sorry no you're okay mag yeah Magnolia is where it starts for Filmore uh it goes down Magnolia the Four Corners over there uh heads down uh South on Magnolia and then it heads of course West on Filmore uh the 300 block of Filmore is the the lowest lying area in that whole Basin um so when you have an increase in water the whole that I'd say about three or four Road of houses right there uh are going to flood on the road itself so until the Hydraulics come down in the whole system then you'll start seeing the whole system drain the rest of the way uh what we want to try to do is try to alleviate Filmore from getting that extra water uh so Magnolia was the closest spot that we could come up with we're looking at um it's not underground Chambers it's a more of a uh perious pavement perious uh I'm looking at different structure right now but we would cut uh cut out a section of asphalt that's part of their parking lot but within the city's rideway so it is city-owned property and we would put this uh the storm water infrastructure right there um and as the water runs off the parking lot it'll seat mostly into that area instead of going out to the road areas are you are you looking at um personally so far I've looked at three and it's all on Magnolia no they're on different areas that that still are part of the Center Street Basin and are we going to get a CPI or CIP um on how much it will be and and what is it in the uh there should be one in there under storm water stor s W10 I was just going to say that what we're talking about presently Tim has just added it this week so that's going to be added to the budget when you get your budget book on three September so so mayor protemp you're not gonna see that because we just discussed it so that's that and the just to recapture the idea that council member Jackson is talking about is this would come out of existing Enterprise funds not tax dollars right right but it would be something that's a smaller project that could result in water off of our streets and in that are area we need to do something in my opinion so and Tim is looking at the different options but I wanted to make sure I'm bringing that up because I didn't find it in here yet oh yeah and what you given me so far but we just did it we just did it so you're gonna see it in it's when we Joey does the red does the book read he read does the book there'll be it'll be in the new budget revise the budget I should say and Mickey what you'll see on that CIP is you'll see for a fiveyear program um of $100,000 each uh so for each fiscal year there's going to be 100,000 that we can put towards these small little pilot projects to help alleviate flooding throughout the city I like it good so and thank you Tim and uh city manager and John for working with me on it because we need some smaller things that we can absolutely count on being able to do to possibly impact our flooding and Tim has had some great ideas and done a lot of research on this so um I think it's a it's a win-win if and if we do the first one and see that the results are not as great as what we thought we don't have to do anymore but it's a small enough cost that it's worth bring it to the table to take a look if we can get some of the water off the streets we still have drain issues on fil more I'm not that doesn't alleviate that but it will alleviate getting a lot of that extra water out of there in the areas that flood and so back to and so thank you Tim and so back to the fact that I'm totally in a situation where I'm worried about as I talked to my con constituents I'm worried about um the struggles that they're going through financially right now with this economy um and I'm worried about making sure that we're utilizing our funds in the ways that we need to to make sure that we maintain what we have and that we're careful with what we build because that becomes a maintenance cost too it may it could be something as simple as next year it's all totally different and the econom is great and then we're back to to building and expanding and things like that and building new buildings but we have a obligation as Council and as the city to maintain what we have and just like Miss Raymond said we've got tennis courts that are needing work we've got other things that are needing work and we're looking at doing project some projects are just nice to have we I think we need to focus this year on the half to halves thank you would uh Harbor Heights also be a candidate for that Harbor Heights is in a different Basin right but we are looking at oh you're talking about for the the year sure absolutely okay yeah anywhere any Basin I mean if we find out that the Center Street Pump Station solves all our issues uh right now we're dealing with a th gallon per minute pump you know standby right there uh we're replacing with a 6,500 gallon per minute pump I think that's going to show really soon here uh but if that's the case uh we can look around absolutely to Harbor Heights we can go to the international Basin home in Basin if needed sure Mr Mayor yes sir um certainly sympathize with condo associations because I'm in one and what I'm seeing though also and maybe it's specific to certain condos but we're not getting hit with these huge assessments because we've been planning all along for all of this and I think that we have to also look at the way we're looking at our budget we could be in a similar situation we keep pushing things down the road or reducing the taxes nobody wants to pay taxes I don't want to pay taxes I really don't want to have to pay my HOA fees but I've got to but if we do something similar where we don't put aside what is necessary for what may be coming we could be in the same situation with these big assessments where we're hitting people eventually down the road not this year maybe next year or maybe five years down the road but we could be hitting them with something as severe as $40,000 assessments I mean not we're not going to get that from individuals but we're going to have to raise taxes if we keep pushing things off so I'm I'm saying all that to say I want to I would like to see us stay at middle of the road I mean it does it doesn't give the individual citizen the extra $40 a year but it might give them it keeps them from having to pay more later on yeah and if I if I could just piggyback on what you're saying is that not next year but the year after you had the chief come up here and said we got to get the truck and then he's got to add more people so when what he was saying there is his budget's going to increase $550,000 not next year but the year after so we got to be ready for that and I agree with all that I'm not in disagreement with that at all but you know what we've got pretty things in this budget okay and we've got infrastructure things we need and you're exactly right we need to make sure that money is there for the pumper truck we need to make sure that the building is taken care of that is needing to be finished we have pretty things though and the pretty things are what I'm questioning um everything that we add that's new at this point in our budget we have to maintain later so just um it it doesn't apply to a well that puts us in a bad situation late no I'm talking about we need to maintain what we've got make sure it's right and don't add to it until we get through this economic crunch that we're in because everything we build new we end up having to maintain if we keep going that direction we will be coming at you for 40 or $50,000 to because we'll have to we're adding things into people's tax taxes that will have to be maintained so to me how we use our funds and one thing I'm never a fan of you never cut your reserves don't be cutting reserves because that'll get you into a ton of trouble that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about prioritization of projects and things in this budget based on is it something that we need to maintain now is it something that we're adding um for whatever whatever or is it something we absolutely have to have those are the things the difference so I don't disagree with you Don I mean I actually am agreeing with you in a certain way different approach maybe um but I I agree you don't want to end up having to come at people later but you also in the if you're in the middle of a budget crunch you don't go out and buy a Ferrari to to have because you like it you fix your old car you fix your old whatever you've got if you're in a budget crunch now are we in one um well you know when we met last time and we looked at this and you pointed out the chart Mr Mayor of all of those increases our population is not rising and our value property values are dropping for the condos because now we're getting things like one person in a a very nice complex listed her unit that she bought three years ago and she listed at the market price that would had recently sold at which was around 650 and ended up selling it at what she bought it at three years ago so our Market is getting cold and when that gets cold our tax that we're bringing in if it drops so do so does the our av theur taxes so to me we have in order to make sure we're not in a bad situation next year we have to watch and prioritize our spending not I'm not saying don't do these projects forever I'm saying things that are not necessary we need to look at them and say what do we need I I'm I'm absolutely going to run over to the tennis courts and look at them because I had no idea I don't play tennis that it was in the shape that Miss Raymond brought up earlier well you know what that's an asset that people already like the pickle ball players like it the tennis players like it and it's something we already have so if we're doing new things I think we need to be very selective about what we're doing right now for this year not necessarily next year but for this year right now I believe that we do because we're going to see changes we're already seeing changes in our Market here in this area for properties and property owners and their costs are increasing greatly I mean when you're looking at condo association dues that are the size of a mortgage payment that impacts people and people will sell and they are selling and you know it puts a crunch on our citizens so I think we have to be responsible about how we spend thank you I could not agree more uh with that and in fact all the things we're talking about today throughout the the meeting um so much of it is I I agree with and it it is a uh if I understand the first thing I just want to we've talked about and I guess this kind of drives a big part of the conversation is the tax rate um we're we're calling it middle of the road and I don't think the average citizen knows what that means it sounds like a compromise um kind of meet in the middle but the truth is it is a a tax increase and so the three the three options we were provided were I think at first it was an increase a higher increase and then a an even higher increase and then I think we had or was it roll back rate a little bit higher yeah and then a sort of everything or most things yeah and this came up at the coffee with city manager and this is how I explain it it makes sense to me at least when we do our CIP workshops we say these are the things we'd like to get done in this the next five years and then we do that before the budget happens because we don't we don't even know what the revenue is going to be but we want to know what we want to end up getting after we finish with that then we get our taxable valuation from the bevard county and they tell us what our tax valuation is and they say okay well if we want to if this is the the taxable valuation and we want to get all this done we just do the simple math to come up with a millage rate say to get there you need to be here so that becomes the top high highest millit rate number and then we always since I've been doing this with you guys we always know to look at roll back also so we put in well if we go to roll back what would that number be and then we say okay let's put it right in the middle of those two numbers if we start if we hit that number we propose that too so Council has idea of that there's three scenarios now to start looking at um the only one that's not a tax increase is the rollback so mayor yes you're correct thank you very much so it those three options roll back the effective same as last year same Revenue yeah um and last year the ADV valorum taxes were roughly 6.3 6.4 million which was as we pointed out higher than the year before um and today we're looking at the seven the middle of the road amount I know we if we can state that number again uh or estimated middle of the road will that bring in 7.1 million Revenue that'll bring in um so just you can bring up your ad and I'm i' I'm on I should say I'm looking at page 13 I think this is in a few places but uh I'm just yeah the Consolidated Financial overview it's probably not the yeah so mayor just rounding off based on your question uh let's just round it up to 6.8 million because it's 6797 so 6.8 million okay yeah and I actually had that that's with the 34519 and the library being 0422 which is you know another 80k so 688 Z so that's if you go middle of the road thank you and that revenue of 6.8 million is what percentage higher what's the change in Revenue I guess it'd be 6.3 million to 6.8 million right so we we' end up getting another 500k if we now's that if you go to roll back rate mayor that takes you down to six point that takes you down to 6, 620,000 so you go from you're you're at middle of the road at 6880 and if you go roll back you're at 6 , 620,000 and if you wanted to get the roll back you'd say well what do I have to cut to get there what was the revenue unroll back for uh six 6620 6.62 yeah thank you and if let let me know when you're ready and I I am I have 6.88 million uh at the middle of the road middle of the road and then it's 6.6 so that takes it all the way down to six6 at roll back right and if you said John well what do we have to cut to get there you have to cut $239,000 more dollars and if you look at the sheet I provided you not saying that that's what you would cut but if you look at this sheet Ando this this sheet here we where it said middle of the road what we had a cut well not and not to confuse anybody but we got to middle of the road and didn't have to cut anything tonight why because of what happened at the fire department right and uh the city manager cutting into one director so that got us just about right to middle of the road so if you said well where do we get that $39,000 from then you look at that sheet there and that basically gives you not that this is what you would cut but that those recommendations there get you to roll back and let's not forget the impact of oaklane hopefully well the the the oaklane the oaklane impact by you know if we get a bit of 800k well the good thing is the 800k is already in the budget so Council doesn't have to worry about pulling out additional funds out of oig res it's one last thing to have to worry about it's one last thing you have to do but so this Council based on the mayor's you know question there what roll back is to get there you'd have to cut $239,000 out of the general fund okay thank you give me a second here the so roughly the last year we yeah we brought in 6.3 million the middle of the road brings in roughly almost 9% more revenue and if we decrease it down it's another cut it 4% but the the roll back rate still achieves more Revenue right because I guess new construction and those things factored right and with the gross taxable value the way it is yeah it it it and it and it and and it better too because if it's not getting us more Revenue each year we'll never be able to yeah achieve our projects and what have you but um referring to this though the 239 that's exactly $240,000 those particular items we had listed the last time I gave you this memo on July 22nd yeah I think I have it here and I could give you a copy if you need it okay and so can we go to um and we might come back here if we go to page 78 real quick yep uh the the the millage rate this is really real breaks down the increases and this is a new chart that's very helpful because it factors the the roll back rate but we're talking about an increase of 9 or 8.94% here not to confuse you remember that this chart has not been updated with your middle of the road yet because we couldn't change a budget because Council has to determine to balance the budget what you want to take out of the budget so you're looking at what you're looking at there mayor is what you were talking to the city manager about the the original proposed the 3.6 the top number but that's that's not where we're at we're we're now at 3.4 right okay and that number is going to take you that is taking you down over go to the budgeted tax line we just I gave you that number 6.8 million and then if you go down to roll back okay that's going to take you down to 6.6 and and the roll back rate of 3.32 gives us that it's just overc communicate yeah and that is that that number has been adjusted a bit because the numbers have the numbers have changed the uh roll back rate is is the it's combined it's 3319 I'll give you the exact roll back right when it's combined in 0390 like 3.35 33589 right 98 so mayor the new combined roll back rate is 3.3 598 33598 the new roll back rate that's what the new roll back rate would be okay and that will achieve the 6.6 correct two million okay and last year we had 6.3 million roll back rate brings in 6.6 million and so literally we were only achieving $300,000 in tax taxes based on the actions of if Council goes to roll back okay let done thank you for your patience yes so I would I I would to just back up now that I've got a better handle on that um the the the conversations that I think all of us have said up here is is really about a priorities and I agree with the fact that if we don't preventative maintenance take care of things uh try to to the best of our ability no one has a crystal ball but we know um council member Jackson was what happens when markets act a certain way what Happ how it imp impact cities we've seen what happens with with interest rates cost of land and those go up and down and I largely agree that you know most assets do increase so the statement of it's only going to get more expensive yes but in real estate and deflationary periods we we see and that's not great either but either way there's certainly some some turmoil and the reality is is if the if the property taxes go down um it we experienced that the whole run up to to 20 2008 to 2016 really 20 or five to seven years we saw that uh occur and the city was getting by with three to four million in property tax revenue today we're looking at almost 7 million and going back then I want to apply the things we're saying today if we if we could go back in time let's s let's go back to 20 uh I don't know 2014 a perfect 10 years I guess would we now that's a different Council from us but and they did not have the benefit of of knowing what the future holds but would we have put more money to towards storm water management if issues infrastructure making sure that the statement that I've heard and it's something that I think resonates and largely is the statement of most the residents I talk to is to take care of what we've had for Tim you've said that all of us have said that and there is there's a clear answer to you know our assets and what we have every year uh we we take inventory John just provided an update on that and obviously our annual audits we see that and I believe I can speak for myself that it's not that you're saying no to the projects in the past it's maybe they don't look like that and that's what I'm sensing in this budget it's something that we were saying back then obviously there was a push at that time to see City Hall improved fire station improvements prior we had uh then the the uh C5 the multigenerational facilities we called it back then and restoring Old City Hall came under a note and we we took on debt to expand those and that's an example at the time when we T said hey we're in great financial sh shape look at the interest rates on these and my position then was these are great these are beautiful but I don't think these are the highest priority projects for us to focus on and so it was a good debate the debate we should be having over priorities and so today when Miss Raymond comes forward and says you know this is our courts let's take care of what we have I 100% agree with that and I think the question is is what is the condition of the courts I've learned uh that we've got some challenges there uh electrical issues and and obviously it's not all bad the Reon reason that the community wants these things fixed is because it's popular and people enjoy it it's a big reason why they love to live here and our staff engages with them and and runs programs and facilitates all the ins and outs of maintaining and running the facilities and with that they get wear and tear and so today having those funds available but is important and I think we got here because we did not do those things back then that that we just said tonight and so as we're looking forward it would be nice to pull $2 million off the $6.2 million multi-generational facility in Cape Center loan right now to knock out all these flooding issues and that's what I was screaming as passionately and and respectfully as I could and the only the best thing I could say was well at least let's get the public let's get workshops engaged and it and it didn't feel right and today we are now fully operating that facility and we are learning and and trying to improve but it's an asset now that has a very different maintenance plan than what existed there prior very different and the same with with City Hall but with that it doesn't ignore the efficiencies that we're gain right I I do not deny that City trying to do business over there at that point with multiple offices was at a point you know became counterproductive but each step of the way as we go through these capital projects it's never that well it's one or the other it's maybe we could have done it you know this way a little bit less money and and thought about those priorities so here we are today the past is the past that's water under the bridge and my hope is that we look at the priorities today and I'm not sure it's not necessarily each specific priority but Public Safety uh in respect to the budget largely represented really in every area aspect but the big ones uh Bard County Sheriff's Office uh and our fire department unless our city manager has a concern or an issue I fully support those budgets I do not think that uh we need to to make any cuts from my understanding that budget is is the best budget forward and we've heard some some trades as far as delaying uh the fire Tru for a year um and then taking uh the opportunity to to to expand the team and I do remember that prior to covid uh and sharing those expenses at the Port so police and fire uh is not something that I'm looking at uh as being the issue are they expensive yes but I cannot I cannot justify not making sure that those two divisions have what they need to support and keep our community safe uh and then when we go back to the city uh in the public safety Wastewater uh extremely important for the public health we got real problems if that starts failing so I think Wastewater is is important and obviously storm water is probably the most visible challenge that we see in certain areas and I'm I think we are we've got many ideas as far as how it looks different uh example would be you know presidential streets master plan evolved I think that that that has uh turned into something that is going to be a great project if we do it however we do it whatever we decide and as we move into this year I do not feel good about you know going from Ridgewood to A1A and and making a beautiful stretch all the way through for one street prior to to allocating funds maybe in a different way maybe presidential streets just an example is we're going to put 250,000 and either not spend you know do nothing with it and and wait maybe another year or two or we're going to spend a portion of it to get one more step closer but the Lion Share needs to go into those issues that that I think we're talking about uh today and so that that is something I'm looking at as far as and I think we should go to the CIP sheet uh try to I guess it uh page 82 think I now if this one well I would see it thank you so and I love the grant funding column that's really helpful uh so fire we through uh that going down to infrastructure maintenance um I want to fully support infrastructure maintenance uh in whatever we can I we talked about making sure all the lights in the city no dark spots I've seen progress being made on that uh along Ridgewood and other areas wellit streets Safe Streets um we we we've all the things that fit under these buckets sidewalks the specific projects obviously with Oak Lane getting a lot of our our uh attention rightfully so um as we scroll down to to parks and rack I know that this budget changed and it and it it was and well Todd and Molly in the department worked hard to try and and make something work here um one of the changes was that the prominate or the Civic Hub that's in the CRA mayor okay and yes I thought there was one of the thing I think that's it so roughly there's $175,000 made across four projects with the biggest of those four the 115,000 for the tennis court resurface um so if we could now go to the CRA and I'll try to to end it there and go to the summary sheet perfect thank you these are city manager if I understand these are all the current CRA expenditures projected for 2425 correct yes sir go ahead John are we um if I can make a comment yeah okay so yes mayor these are the current however based on the um we had given you a new CRA sheet I believe because based on that hit we took because the county went to 2.9 on its millage that brought the presidential Street number down to 1.3 million plus these were also um written at the time that we were going to be at the top number with the Rue too correct that's correct so we haven't adjusted any of these down right we did we did yeah we didn't adjust these down yet but when you see your next budget at the budget hearing on the thir you'll see where the presidential streets is down to uh one point uh one 250 at middle of the road yeah and let's see what else and I think that's that's the only one yeah that's the only one that got hit because that uh bra counting thing so that goes from 1.6 million so we would anticipate if we even get there that we'd try to spend 1.2 million on a presidential Street in 2425 if we were to achieve that so why did so it was it's 1.6 obviously in this version down go down to 1.2 remember that the county the county will never go um e if if our millage is three 3.5 there was a time that they just gave us 3.5 the equivalent but what they do now in the last six years whatever well theirs came in at 2.9 when we didn't have the information from the county yet so we were estimating that theirs might be like 3.3 3.45 or something and they went all the way down to 2.9 so then when we applied that that number went from 1.6 because they're only going to give us based on 2.9 and that took it down three that took it why did that take it down our our Revis in our local that we did a few years ago with them said it's going to be to the lower of the two milites whether the city's the lower or the counties the lowerer whoever is the lower the County's portion will be they weren't going to reward our they weren't going to reward our millage if it was higher they were gonna say sorry but our millage is this so that's all you get so why does that if the cost is 1.6 million to do presidential streets I understand the change in Revenue that you explained but why would that change the cost of the presidential Street it changes how much we can spend on yeah because we lost we lost $300,000 when that happened so that's we lost Revenue Yeah well yeah we but if something cost $100,000 and we expect to make $100,000 but we only get $75,000 suddenly that Park doesn't cost any less so I'm just want I mean we could build $775,000 Park but the cost of something or the estimated CIP was 1. 6 million but there was no change in the estimates of the cost of the project we reduced it because we didn't have the funds let I could bring some clarity to that um so the we had anticipated based on the money that we would get in the CRA that we would be able to give $1.6 million based on the numbers we had to the presidential Street okay however so that wasn't based on like um our previous community development director when he gave us a wag on what he believes he could spend he had put that in there but in essence that was never like something that where he had a document that said oh we're going to do 1.6 million so that's why we put the Lion Share in there you know because we know it was going to be expensive whatever but that was just an estimate and then when this happened with the county we took that money away so we're it's not like we knew that we were going to spend 1.6 million no we were putting the Lion Share in presidential streets because that would be the most expensive project in the CRA so so the cost estimating the cost was really based kind of relative and as a percentage of what we thought so we bring in this we'll try to exactly exactly exactly okay so we're at 1.2 today 1.250 so but that's a $400,000 cut 300 yeah that we didn't really talk about yeah oh well that came about because of the change in the's that the calculation from the the calculation from the um calculation well let me let me let me add to that that came from the calculation of the uh what the county did but then you add have to add in another look at your sheet here because when y'all decided to go to middle of the road right it reduced the amount of of money coming in for taxes and that reduced us to 120k there so reducing taxes the percentage we you know we got a sheet we do all this stuff on that that actually we took another hit of 120k because you guys reduced the millage rate our millage rate down to middle of the road and if you keep coming down the deduction to the SI keeps going up because we're only giving so much of that tax money our tax money to the CRA I got that yeah okay thank you and so the but but the way I understood is if and the way that the memos were presented it would be hey the just we would have a 200,000 I guess a$ 400,000 deficit had that reduction not been made right so middle of the r Road would we couldn't sustain a $1.6 million project if we we were if we went there so we took a $420,000 hit collectively from bringing our millage down and the county coming in with their low millage but we didn't have to reduce this project we could red other projects I guess my question is is was did we discuss reducing this project or was that staff's recommendation which is totally I I get it I mean it's obviously the biggest project and probably the most least firm number that we have a a good grasp on but that's a lot of money I mean yeah that we're over there sweating about 100,000 here 200,000 and so if it's at rollback will it go less than 1.2 if it goes roll back yes yes the answer is yes it goes down um 58,000 it'll go down from say 20 25,000 to 250,000 oh yeah but because now you're bringing the number back so you are you're not only you know wiping out sort of speak your own millage for the general fund for the city you are also reducing uh how much you can give to the CRA yep okay so so oh go ahead these are the two that that I think we have to we have to do something with there's no way that we can deal with flooding issues in my head and keep 1,50,000 into the Civic Hub and 1.6 or 1.2 and that's a bit difficult is these those are big changes in numbers and today in our head we don't know let me let me just back up and say the total revenue so if I go to we got three and a half million this just the total revenue at roll back I mean we're going to spend last year our operating budget so I'm going to go to page 13 again and and going back to the budget the bottom line total expenditures page 13 total expenditures in 2122 go up a little bit where it says 30,000 right yeah the bolded 30,6 I'm sorry 30 milon 166,000 that's what we actually expensed in 21 2022 across really everything right I mean that's an all-encompassing number from all the funds right there was a lot of activity going on that year that money went out though but we passed a 33 or and but we brought in 33 million roughly and so as we just kind of follow those expenditures then it was 25 million the next year which but we passed the 26 so you know there's roughly four million but I know it doesn't always work out this way and then this year we passed a $37 million a really really big jump and so do we know what our year to date all encompassing just where we are today with a couple more months left in this this Budget on total expenditures of the 37 million that we we adopted in past absolutely what is that number um I don't we might have to go to bsna for that right we'd have to go to bsna Mayor but I could get you that answer monthly okay our monthly financials will show that too uh but we are presently uh we have we're through June so we can give you a total of that but and we'll be doing July's here around the 24th 25th of August so okay so yes um just write that down and we'll get him what the total expenditures are to date okay through July 31st but we won't have that for another seven eight days so adding new things as we've said is only going to add overhead and expenses if we take inventorial what we have tennis courts the existing today um that's really that's really important and we added the Civic cup we added that property to our responsibilities when that these other issues were not being addressed and I think today I am skittish of anything new and I think that's shared uh from what I'm hearing and I am also sharing uh to to have a forward preventative uh proactive mindset on the essentials um and and with that I would I believe that we can we should what I'd like the middle of the road to be one day is council's debate is that middle of the roads roll back that's stay in your heading down here in my head and it's however we want but that's stay in the course right down the middle but the option we have seen is is a reduction and so my head always says show me metal 5% less show me 5% more and we do ask our city manager right we do go through the wish list of items prior to confirming revenue and so it's like we want all this and then but we only have this much so then we'll add on debt or things or grants whatever we can do to make it work but however we get there to me there's a lot of there's a lot of Opp opportunities in those just two projects alone over two million there um but it's really hard for me to nail down a specific percentage I think a 3.2 uh roll back rate is like a 5% reduction um I'd like to I'd love to say 10% but again we've almost doubled this and the citizens really are the ones who benefit when their line item from the City of Cape Canaveral doesn't become more expensive at least for the property taxes and I'm not even talking about all the other C fees storm water fees and everything else so I think we have enough funds to get this done I would like to see us take a reduction in the millage rate give a real tax decrease and then because some of these numbers are so loose so high I mean 1.6 that's five or $600,000 that's a 10% tax decrease right there five I mean just over and so we can do this uh and I think we can take care of what we have mentality and and really I cannot get on board with expanding responsibilities until I think these issues are handled um then we can do it I believe that and I think if there isn't enough in the Capital Improvements There's an opportunity to do as and I've said this in the past is to go into some of these budgets and just do a a percentage decrease not including those essential Services police fire but in in those other uh operating budgets I think we have some room and if it means that we have quotes on something for just say $100,000 and we're budgeting 80,000 for it right it would be better to to try buy and get it at 80,000 or just hold until you can for non-essential items and so those are my comments I really hope we can figure out a way to do a tax decrease to where it results in uh maybe down towards the six $6 million range but I I honestly think we can do more I think that the reserve that we have of $3.2 million 17 to 20% of our budget roughly uh is there for those things that we were talking those real problems that come and like we've known with natural disasters the feds arpa and those funds tend to come we have the reserve as well to maybe float so I can look residents in the eyes and say we got 3.2 million un obligated to deploy and to use uh city manager and I there's some other ways we have a healthy CRA um we're rebuilding in some areas and trying to go strong and and get better at our processes and procedures and right now to to to expand that Civic Hub or put a million dollars into that I think we got the property that was the big push get the property skirt we got it maintain it it's creating value today with some parking but take that million and and let's go fix some of these more urgent problems and just maybe you know we can move projects up if we if we press such as the infrastructure Maintenance building I would really like I've seen that it looked rough when I saw it and I haven't been out there and so um and the message has been the same out there and so I think but where would we get the funds mayor to do that where would we get additional 700,000 it's not in the CRA no it's not in the CRA but it's not in the CRA plus if we're going to reduce even if you go to roll back if you ever wanted to do a project like that now there's no place else to get the money but un obligated Reserves and you can't really go into departments and say let me cut this 2% this 3% whatever because just just to give a an example I mean you know you can't buy less toilet paper you can't buy less this you can't buy less chemicals see what I'm saying so to go into the operational expenditures you know there's not a heck of a lot that's you know overstated there that's why we go to the capital projects and say is this really something we need to do because that's where the bigger the bigger dollar are but and I don't want to go down this road but you know it's up to council if the unobligated reserve if there's something that want you want to do that's so bad and you have to use the unobligated reserve you don't want to do that but if you do that's council's uh at council's discretion so and to be clear I'm not I'm saying not to use the reserve to fund this year's budget I'm saying if what the CH The the Reserve was intend we do have for an emergency right those big problems that come up um Harbor Heights is a good example you know we heard Mr Russell Lamar come in and he said this years back five five seven years ago when I was in there and he said it before talking about you know the flooding and take action in their own hands you know those things I think if it was happening there as of today of where we are is are we in good condition to manage storm water flooding I think in overall in this city I would I would put us at fair and that's my two cents as as a mayor not an expert um in some areas I think we're excellent in some areas po so overall we're doing a fair job but we are progressing we we're making the strides to to me that's those are priorities oaklane and I just shared infrastructure maintenance is a project that I think's more important than the Civic Cub far more and we're trying to do the Civic Cub this year and our team out there and the photos that I saw is operating under that that's I can't I can't feel good about that and I know that the source is the problem right it's CRA but how do you pay for it I'll well that's in the general fund that that building is infrastructure maintenance so MH yeah can't do that you can't do that because you've obligated you have all your money's obligated in the CRA where is where do you gonna pull out what are you gonna pull out of uh and I I don't think we can do that anyway there's also hold I just want to intervene here because this is really important to me you're saying I don't think we can do that you're saying we can't can we confirm what the problem is and confirm the problem is there's in the CRA statute there's a rule that says if you have any project that you're proposing to do in your CRA cannot have appeared in the general fund proposed budget for five years um I had a discussion with Anthony about that and he explained it to me that if something is in the um it has to be five years away from the original planning of the CRA the CRA plan five years away from that not five years out of the budget he called me today too and so but when you understood that it'd be like five years away meaning that if oaklane was planned in the CRA five years ago let's just say no the C plan was done in 2012 right but what he's saying though is it it has to be five years removed Todd check me on this and we can check this tomorrow it has to be five years removed so if the oaklane project was in the 2013 budget and then was taken out of the budget because we weren't doing oaklane and then five years later now it's in the general fund budget then it could be funded in the general fund that's not how I understood my uh that's what he that's that's what he was saying because he he called me today but we could confirm mayor on the five or three year the fiveyear rule three-year Rule and tell you when it appeared because um right now we don't have the we don't have the we don't have the funds in the CRA to pay for oaklane right now is it set in stone that the the money for the Hub the 1.5 whatever portion of that is the CRA the 550 or 510,000 whatever it is in the I see I see where set in stone that we have to spend that the only ones that could set that in stone are the council that's sitting up here so if the council said we're not going to do the Civic Hub and wanted to do oaklane and if oaklane qualified I'm just saying but I have to check an oaklan qualified to be in the C well that's that's a council's that's council's discretion I mean you decide what projects get done well we we are I think we're trying toise discretion and and we said this is of interest to do and we're being told we're not while we're willing we're not able well we're going to check we're going to check the I want to see where that appeared because you know sometimes we have projects that they put in the CRA they appear and then then for some reason we're not doing them and then they show up again and they're in the they're in the um but it says in theat five years from the conception of the plan that was 2012 it's 163 163 370 well if that if that's how it pans out Mickey I'm not gonna argue with you of course I mean if it if it applies it's an option that we could think about I mean if if that's the option but I really want to go back tomorrow and check where this this Oak Lane has appeared in the CRA and it has I believe it has but how long ago how long ago did it yeah and then we check the statute and see if the statute matches up with where it was and then we could tell you so yes the answer to your question is yes we could we could check it and if it applies then well I'm just Council discre know it comes across that we can't do anything with the CR money when it is not set in stone the council makes the decision on what we do with that's right this presidential streets um that's a CIP uh it was agreed upon with the council as we've been moving forward if Council decided it doesn't want to do a presidential Street staff isn't saying you can't do you can't do that we're just here to support you Anthony did say in my email which it's on my phone in my car um that the CRA would board would have to approve it so I mean we can make a decision but it goes to the CRA to make the decision to move the money around or whatever which is an option as well yeah there's options I mean but that's I mean that's up to council so this is a question of are what are we able to do the total amount on that was five five uh what are we talking about oaklane well oaklane has a storm water component of 300,000 and and then it has the 550 in the general fund yeah so if we funded it with the 550 from the CRA that would free up that 550 to maybe get the in so the the the the direction is we are interested in the moving the 550,000 to me it's the the infrastructure Maintenance building has been in the budget or on the budget off the budget since 2008 if this is the year we do things that have been out there for so long that have been neglected because we've taken on these big projects it's time to do this them to me um and it's you know the same with the tennis courts how did they get so dilapidated in a short amount of time because we haven't spent the time or the money to take care of what we have because we've taken on new shiny projects and the new projects take longer so we can't ignore the maintenance of these things and every new project like you were saying K is a is a main maintance cost and when we get these estimate estimates on the CIP you know it says operating cost $15,000 for maintenance operating and maintenance for the city park Redevelopment that's that's not true Civic Hub $3,000 for operating and maintenance that's not true I mean just alone the splash pad is $51,000 just for maintenance on that I mean these things are good great for our people but our residents but we have to think that further down the road than just right now and you know I just think when when we think about what's important to the residents you know let's take care of what we have I hear that all the time from our residents they love Cape canabal they love the things we have all the parks the recreation um places the things we have you know A1A safety is a big major thing we funded A1A put money aside for the last few years I don't know what happened to that it's not in the budget now but it was money that we could match or upgrade things once uh you know Florida Department of Transportation is doing their things the money for A1A that's not a true statement the money for A1A is in the budget you had us put uh uh it's a non-departmental joey if you bring it up we we put that money in our spia just as you asked us to um what is it Joey $24,000 a year for 10 years let's see yeah 24,000 every year we're putting 24,000 so that's not a that's not a correct statement okay I mean my mistake replenish it's a non- departmental let's just get didn't know that's where it was um it's on page 45 so 24,000 a year a whena replenishment you asked us to do that for 10 years we're doing it page 45 and we still only have $224,000 45 what is the middle of the page it's called A1A replenishment well I think we only have 24,000 because it looks like we didn't start it until 23 we started in 20 yeah it just started just approved it uh last year yeah so 24 and 24 and then we'll keep putting 24 and for 10 years as directed by Council and then that'll be that's sitting in an investment account acre a little bit interest alerte okay so my mistake on that one I didn't know it was in the non-departmental um you know trees are important to our city we we lose trees do we have money in the tree Bank do the people that take down these trees put money in the tree Bank um you know of course code enforcement's always important short-term rentals are very important to our residents um you know the short-term rentals are edging out families which edges out the school I mean the things that are important to the people that live here is good schools good quality of life good Parks a great Beach um things like that you know Economic Development we've talked about is very important I'm I'm happy that the $50,000 in there for the um development plan is is there [Music] um you know like and things I just I think you know like Kay was saying we we have to think about the maintenance down the road for these things um they'll be maintenance for the presidential master plan streets there'll be you know if we can do more lowcost things like Tim was saying and and achieve the same results with the storm water that's our basic reason for doing this and it costs less money I think we should look at that and you know just brainstorming and what John said about um operating expenses uh you know just looking at it if we took every Department except um police and fire because that's Our obligation as a council to keep our people safe um and cut their operating expense by 10% just you know that would save some money I mean I'm just yeah I know that's and I'll tell you no not no disrespect but that is so unrealistic we would not make it this budget would not make it if we took 10% of each each um Department it just wouldn't and just a couple other thoughts um and I'm willing you know obviously whatever council's direction is and the city managers of course I I I'm willing to follow but if based on some of the things you're talking about now if you were going to turn turn the table on the CRA on the Civic Hub if that was something the council was going to do it would have to do it extremely quickly you would have to have a CRA meeting in the middle of August this in the middle of August whenever that could come up because you would have to go ahead then and change that budget and of course tomorrow we'll get a me we will get an answer to the mayor tomorrow on whether or not oaklane qualifies to be done in the CRA we'll get him that answer and if that was the case and you want to turn there's a lot of work to be done to get that if you want it to be reflected Because by the first Hearing in the third you know we're a little bit late in the game if if that's what council's doing and I think what I'm hearing too is and mayor correct if I'm wrong your intention is to go to roll back is that below below tax decrease I've never I've been asked what my intention was and I'm sharing it I'm just being straight I've always wanted a tax decrease never got one yeah never uh well no we you mean below roll back below the roll back rate I I just don't know how you find I don't know you would fund that that's okay what let let's do this Todd I saw you over there I think working and thank you if it's to address the chapter the question couldn't find it easily okay so there I just don't understand if you spoke to the City attorney today and did I guess have you heard I got an email and if I could be excused for a minute I'll get it out of my car let's take a let's take 7 o' now let's take 10 and then try to get out of here uh at least out of this part of the conversation and try to go towards getting on the same page so let's try 710 if we're here at 705 we can start earlier um mayor that allow us to chat and talk through some of this regardless of what she finds out tomorrow staff will have to do the search into the previous budgets to see where it appeared in the budget see if it Trigg criteria okay take advantage e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e alrighty everyone it is 7:09 PM call the meeting back to order we're in our Workshop here working through the budget uh and we just left off with I restate I think a request to confirm whether or not not we are able to fund the Oak Lane project out of the CRA yes um and I can just read for the record the email I got from uh the City attorney the meeting last week because I had asked him last Monday for his interpretation of this statute um got cancelled so I completed my review today the section this section is not applicable here because the CRA plan was last updated in 2012 the CRA could contribute to the Oak Lane project because roadway and streetscape improvements are generally listed as authorized strategies programs and projects in the cape canaval CRA plan however as for this fiscal year Mr Deo advised me that currently all of the CRA revenue is already allocated to other authorized expenditures similar to the current year 2023 24 City budget the proposed City budget for 20242 currently allocates funding for oaklane project under the general fund 550k and the storm water Enterprise fund 300K see the proposed budgets Pages 82 and 100 105 uh 50 therefore whether therefore whether Oak Lane is funded in the proposed City budget is a policy decision for the city council to make on the other hand if the CRA is going to budget funds for oaklane the CRA board will need to meet to make that decision regards Anthony a 163 370 thank you very much this uh to state back Anthony states that the city council and for this meeting with we are the city council uh today is a policy decision we would need to make which changing the budget is what I assume that is that policy decision and then we would need to meet and I think our finance director helped us with what I didn't hear in that email was the timing of that needs to happen soon for the CRA board to come to order at a future meeting properly public meeting right because if you want to you know let's say you wanted to say hey you know what we're not going to do the Civic Hub thing which I guess storm water I know is important to you but that Civic Hub storm water contains $550,000 a storm water project so I don't know if it would be up to the city council if they want to wipe that out and do the oaklane in the uh in the CRA so the only thing I want to check mayor is um I'm listening to what Mickey's message is from the attorney and I agree but I do want to see exactly where the oaklan project appeared in the past budgets that's all I want to look at and then if the attorney says it's still a a a policy thing then then the council will have to determine you know if they want to change how the money's being spent in the CRA and if they want to um do o clean in the C is it in this budget that you have that's this um that's that's this year's I have that budget here too yeah let's see well yeah that will be probably show up in the um audited in the general let's see yeah because this year I would feel really good if here knowing that we could do that it's it's not in the CR the the um the uh CRA contains you know pretty much the you know the Civic hubs in the CRA to uh Civic Hub to for this year but if we went back to infrastructure maintenance let's just see if oaklane is oaklane and improvements im7 this year okay but so there was 250k in this year's budget however we just never got to it right it never went out for bid or whatever it's G out for bid now so that's why it's been moved to the to the next year's budget for 550k so that's how it that's how that changed mayor im7 on page 82 and so that's how that in the green book or the the green book okay so I don't think it'll be online p82 I got the book here if you need it no I was for our city clerk and team is helping it it's probably not viewable yeah 82 that said the general fund summary yeah that's the equivalent on the screen I guess of this year's uh perfect so everything was moved into 2425 because never got to Oakland what it's uh I am 7 mhm 250,000 was budgeted for 2023 24 and then another 20 250,000 was budgeted in 2425 you're saying it all got moved out to 2425 so we did not spend anything no so we have $500,000 well we're budgeting I believe 550 for the the next year here now based on well no I'm saying do we have 500,000 in the bank to pay for this $500,000 in the bank for in in this um in this budget year coming up it's in this budget and yes because of the bid that just came in uh we would be able to fund it in in the IM am budget and you'd still be able to go to rollback if you took $239,000 cut that from the general fund that's how you get there but this what what you what you all are saying is you want to move it to Oak you want to move Oak Lane to the CRA and reduce costs in the CRA so that's a major thing that the C CRA board would have to meet and discuss well I'm just trying to confirm that if I'm looking at the page 82 in the green book you were saying that we we adopted and $250,000 to be allocated towards o right and then we did the same thing basically the next year so that money has came in it's a budget though the city has that available yes right now we are in July or August we're in August and we have a budget which has revenue and expenditures expected so if this does not get completed it's a budget and a budget is just the revenues minus the expenditures equaling you know contingency then we we if we finish our if our revenues are that much higher than our expenditures in its totality in the general fund then yeah then that's then that's money left yeah that's money in Bank okay it be 250,000 right but you got to remember you got to remember it's it's it's a budget and and although if we don't spend money on this project but our revenues fall short it's all that's why we that's why we do audits in financial statements because we we never know how we're gonna actually end up if this falls short and this doesn't get done and this you know it's a whole thing so we budgeted that line item for the expense M we've got budgeted into the revenue 250 or $250,000 of the revenue from LA from 2023 to 2024's budget right right if we didn't spend it and we were we hit our budget perfectly that could be end up being in the Surplus number that rolls over to the next year right and most cases you know you never know how that's going to end up up so in your prediction do you believe that we'll have a shortfall or we will have the funds um I in in my what I'm looking at I'd have to look at how we're going to end up in July uh and see approxim R yeah yeah but that's but we don't know the invar the the the variables that would affect that but that gives I would know exactly but I would can you repeat what what you just said because that gives a good idea of where we stand right now yeah yeah I mean revenues and expenses if we're projecting we have 35 but this this this is just the budget number that and we cannot predict exactly where we'll end up but we do know at the end of every with actuals like the end of June then we do know but and this is just a you'd have 35.6 uh million dollars and you'd end up spending 32 million okay but you know there's we have expens there's a lot that could happen we have expenses for the remain remainder of the year and closing out the budget so it's yeah so I don't expect to have an extra $ three million dollar at the end of this year if that's the question I you know I don't I don't know what that number is but that gives us that gives a good idea right but our anti in August we don't we hav't finalized and closed out August budget yet or expenses and we haven't finalized September but our fiscal year starts on October 1st so we know we're we're probably not the other way around we're not right but I could tell this you know if reference to the May mayor's question is I don't see our expenditures this year exceeding our revenues okay okay I can't give you an exact number mayor if I could I probably would be working in you know SpaceX or something just kidding thank you that's helpful yeah okay may I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm not trying to be disrespectful I'm just trying to understand go ahead yeah so you say that there is no way if we cut 10% off of operating costs not the fire not the right that we will not make it absolutely and I'm going to tell you why because that totally contradicts what this council is trying to achieve and that's to maintain what we have and those operating expenditures in our budget is there to maintain and maintain means a lot of things you know like if we have training we got to go on right uh We've maybe we've done our training to a certain dollar amount to send Joey to school or send this one here that one there well we're not putting extra money in there we're getting the we're doing our estimates we're putting that in there if you take 10% out maybe we fall short in training and then maybe we fall short in buying supplies uh for our maintenance people stuff so yeah that is a very I can't predict that that goes against what you are talking about and maintaining what we have and what you had stated earlier I just want to verify is the place we would need to look at are the cips absolutely so it would be the capital Improvement projects and if you start moving things around you just gotta you just we have to look at those to see which ones are maintaining what we have or on if if I'm understanding correctly yes and just to add a little thing here I know this is in your this was in your last package or whatever but if we went to rollback a $300,000 property if we go to rollback that person's taxes would be $44.25 less so I don't know how low you want to go on getting people's taxes below beat breaking even from last year but I mean a $500,000 property 7375 and um the only thing I'm saying mayor is I don't know how you could cut go down from 6.6 down to six million I don't know where you would get that $600,000 from how did we get by last year on six million uh we got by on six point how are we actually how are we doing it right now in terms of we just said we're not gonna have a shortfall well I'm you know mayor I don't know the unexpected I'm not you know looking in a crystal ball but Joey tell you where we where we at I could tell you where we at at the end of just how can businesses do it how can individuals do it I mean we all have to face that challenge that hey I'm not gonna every year I don't always uh bring in the same amount of money for good reasons in this case too yes $45 for one resident maybe in average but you uh across the board it's significant amount of capital that can be redeployed back into the their homes and their economies and improving their properties and having extra income so yes I just want to yeah well um I would say that businesses the reason why we're can't do a business businesses operate with profit uh the city takes in so much revenue to cover its expenditures we're not we're not a business although the Enterprise fund is like a business because it charges user uh uh service service fees with the uh you know utility bills and whatever so that's more like a that's more like a business but the general fund is is there to you know collect its Revenue through taxes and communication Services taxes and and revenues and grants and to sustain the people that work for the city and the expenditure and whatever Capital items in general fund they want to achieve now as of the end of June uh how much no I want to look at how what's the taxes that on your monthly financials I just want to know what the taxes are where we're at what we're achieving [Music] because we had 6254 that's in the budget and what's it showing us for the taxes we collected so far oh okay so it's very very close at this point when it comes to taxes in the budget we had 6254 we've collected 6365 however that difference remember there's delinquent taxes that's in there too so so it's very close to we've collected all our TA we've collected all our taxes 6254 six 6254 6, 250,000 6,250 yeah okay and what was the other amount and I guess dollar value all right so okay the the the adjusted number the 2324 budget has 6260 6260 562 in taxes we have already got and we probably won't get many more after this but 6365 277 and I could tell you the reason for the difference will greatly be delinquent taxes because those things have to catch up because you know people don't pay their taxes or do we have more there will there probably be no more taxes coming in this year but the budgeted was 6.3 and we brought in 6.2 roughly uh3 it was yeah the budget was if you round it 6.3 and we've taken in 6.3 and an extra $65,000 oh the budget was 6.2 yeah 6.2 aied over the yeah and we normally do yeah we normally just go over because yeah that's a good point the 5% but also there's delinquent taxes in there okay of course thank you I I think it's possible that whether in we practice is another conversation uh but to can we put it on paper can we show what a 10 or what was the percentage 10cent I'm not saying it's happening I'm saying but can we see it because for I don't know what line items you'd hit but I could give you I could definitely give you a dollar figure by Department cutting out operational expenses by 10% each that's what you want if you just for an example um you know there's lots of things um Parks and Recreation I hate to pick on them but that's the page that you know they've already cut a couple hundred, out of their budget right but I mean if you take each 10% off the total you know it's each line item is not reduced by that much money but totally it would be a 10% it would be 53 thou I mean don't my math is on this little computer phone but um you're talking about like program supplies we're on page 41 41 um an increase of 278 per in program supplies so there's a lot more going on 10% of that would be what 4,000 44100 right I mean 10% of 41 oh would be 4416 less yeah 37 but if you go at the bottom line and you said take 10% out of the 534,906 it has $187,000 well those are firm those are firm contracts so if I cut 10% off that 187,000 I have to get the money from someplace else because you can't pay the contractor their money see see saying it's not it's not Equitable across all lines agree utilities especially it could work on other lines but on utilities 696 well utilities that's that's not always consistent what if I take six what is that $696 off that and then the utility the utility comes in at 73,000 this year now I'm losing money again and here's the other part of what when you talk about lowering to um lowering to uh to uh uh roll back you're already talking about decreasing the contingency whenever I fall short here in these budgets it's the contingency that we do a transfer from to make up the money you know what I'm saying if something happens and I need it um $110,000 more for utilities that's what my contingencies there for and my contingency is already down to 300,000 and you took the suggested cutbacks just to get to our normal roll back um we are that would take me down to find my sheet here we're already 300,000 that would take me down to 250,000 now I got $250,000 in contingency so so everything is affected on every move you make the the only thing I would say that I've heard in this conversation would be council's priorities about how they would like to spend the money in the CRA and if they wanted to shift that around like the mayor said that's a policy decision and uh you know if you wanted to go down that road I yeah I think that there's certainly line item where it makes no there there's going to be line items that will increase and they should increase like utilities fpl's rates and I think that's and certainly stay stay the same but wherever that 10% less maybe it is uh two or three out of the the 20 that that it could work well for I think that's a that's a start and you know I can't imagine that we would be in a circumstance on these things that we say you know essential items such as office supplies and things uh that that this Administration needs to function computers and and all of the the operating expenses that we we will work through those challeng those things aren't going to I think take up the back burner but but there are other things and maybe you know I don't think we've always spent the contingency we'll we'll have it in there I don't think we've had to use it and so that that means the contingency's rolled forward maybe a couple years maybe we have but either way I'd be willing to to reduce the contingency and the example would be because if those issues did come up and those basic things started to be become a concern in future months to purchase I mean the council at that point has the ability whether it be the reserve if it's 50,000 if it's $200,000 out of the reserve or what other lawful means we have to make that work it would be better that we we run it like that because what I see is large amounts of money going into the budget all the projects don't some projects get done some do not and then we have cash on hand and it rolls over and in those Cycles today we see I think Capital money we have on hand and projects that need to be done now and so trying to get behind those things is really important taking care of what we have um and maybe that's the criteria is if it can't fit that mission yeah it's a nice project but not this year well and I have questions on as you brought up the um the operating expenses like now I've seeing some things like how did we go from 13,685 and 2122 to 41,100 th000 we could look back at our workbooks and see what was um in the workbook what drove yeah I know that is a thing but I'm also curious on that what promotional what promotional things did we um get into that that brought that up $3,000 almost or close to 28,000 Molly can you help on that absolutely mayor um the reason that I dropped the budget that particular year was because of covid and the stopping of events so all I did was put it back up to where it was okay that and see I knew there had to be an explanation for that thank you that was C and I think it's very difficult to try to go line by line because there isn't a person in this room that could predict the ups and downs and the unexpected that could happen and I I think we're really close to the line in this budget the way we're going now I in my past years with the city I've never been at contingencies that were below 300,000 I remember there were years were 400 500,000 and we were doing capital projects too so we were doing really good taking out good loans and things of that nature so this all just makes my mind spin in the sense that we've got a hearing on three September and the changes that you I mean we're discussing of course but the changes in like lowering taxes another 600,000 is I don't know where you're going to get the money it's it's not there and roll back is achievable this year but below rollback I don't know mayor if you tell could tell us me where you want want to get the money I'm I'm gonna do whatever the council votes on but I don't know I don't know where you get the money without going to obligated reserves I don't have it any other place it's record Revenue it's it's it's 7 million well it was seven million you brought it down to Middle Road I I think if we took it down 5% to 3.2 we're going to be at guess low sixes um but it doesn't get around your point does yeah let me see what Al Cal does with 3.2 what's that give you the general fund 3.20 32 are these changing down 6 okay 6.3 if it took it down to 32 that would take you for the general fund not count to 80,000 in the library that would take you to 6.3 going 3 2 takes it down another 300,000 so that would just be another 300,000 to make up then so total to take out if it went down to that 300,000 but there's it's another 300,000 so I think I told you what roll backage it's 2 uh 39 so 239 plus 300,000 right 6 point that was at 6.6 now this is three so yeah 239 239 30 539,000 total 539 so if we I mean don't question um on our we had in our budget this year from what I understand we budgeted $150,000 for Engineering Services for the Civic Hub is that correct yeah from the CRA um has that have we spent that money yet Design Services we haven't spent it yet we're waiting for the uh proposal to come in The Proposal come through and then you're waiting to approve the uh there's an agenda item for that right okay so if we decided to use CRA funds for oaklane for example and we didn't use them for that yet that would be is that just a line item to the revenue or do we have the money sitting in there meaning that we would have that 150,000 because we haven't SP we have the we have the 150,000 we haven't spent it because we didn't even do the it's in this year's budget it's in this year's budget yeah so okay but we haven't Council hasn't even approved the uh right the uh I just want I wanted to understand that because I'm like wait we did the uh we talked about that so I wanted to make sure we weren't burning money for no reason there that we had already spent or whatever okay Mr city manager were you able to confirm anything we just uh on the question about yeah I think Anthony and mayor protm are correct and I misremembered it here's what it says about the CRA statute and I'm reading from um the statute 1633 370 parentheses 2 I'm sorry parentheses 3 a 3B the following projects may not be paid for or financed by increment revenues so these are projects that can't be done with CRA funds installation construction reconstruction repair or alteration of any publicly owned Capital Improvements or projects if such projects or improvements were scheduled to be installed constructed reconstructed repaired or altered within 3 years of the approval of the community redevelopment plan which is as she said by the governing body pursuant to a previously approved public Capital Improvement or project schedule or plan of the governing body which approved the community redevelopment plan unless and until such projects or improvements have been removed from such schedule or plan of the governing body and three years have passed or relapsed since such removal or such projects or improvements were identified in such schedule or plan be funded in whole or in part with funds on deposit within the community redevelopment trust fund so she's correct and Anthony's correct it's tied to the establishment of the plan so what was that number again please city manager I'm sorry what was the Statute number again on that pleas uh 163 370 um parentheses three parentheses CES B thank you so just one question and then I think I got my answer that I was going to give the mayor the 2021 20 2122 there uh they were going to start Oak Lane and there was $75,000 in that budget and then in 2223 there were 451 so that's the thing I was looking for so Todd the thing I'm saying there is this appeared in our general fund in 2122 okay the following year it was in there again but of course we never did the project now based on what you just read this does it interfere with it only mattered through 2015 the year 2015 okay so yes we can that's it appears to be eligible and it is in the CRA map area very much okay that's member Willis I I think U it' be really good if we could decrease taxes for the citizens I've always felt that way I'm going to always feel that way and it is a challenge to go out and do projects that are low maintenance and sustainable but I'd rather do less of them and get a good handle on what we've just taken on with the C5 uh and and just become better at managing that every single year uh as opposed to expanding and I see uh the Civic hub as no different is the amount of money going into it and and my opinion should be an opportunity and and going down the line if if there is nowhere to to cut I I have a hard time on any items where we don't have a good firm bid and it goes both ways I might be sorry I asked I understand that that argument too is we especially on items we just have nothing we have to estimate um I think those have a lot of risk and and I get that and we sort of ride that but property taxes even I mean it it's there's other communities doing this figuring it out no two communities are the same the needs are the same we're small we have you know 50 plus employees and I think we can grow certain departments and budgets and increase it's not this level but wherever we can B those opportunities uh I think it's I would like to see in seven years one proposed reduction actually just at least the the bottom line that the Consolidated uh because I think we can do it and and it's something I think we'd be really proud of and it doesn't have to be divisive or it's a positive thing so that's it thank you I think we need to have a CRA meeting and at least that way Council can choose because we need to look at and just like Mr Deo was saying with the operating costs we have things to maintain and we have things we need to get caught up on like mayor protm Kellum has said that haven't been done and that have been pushed off we've got to take a look at how we can creatively Finance Mr Finance director our endeavors and so maybe that's a discussion we need to having a CRA meeting there's consensus here um we will schedule a CRA board meeting uh limited to the one agenda item to consider funding oaklane through the CRA sounds good thank you thank you in the city clerk's office we'll get back with you on scheduling that and then if those decisions are made and there uh Joey will be here to collect that information and I will see you all on 28 August John when with that SI board meeting need to be held at the latest oh I believe you have to do it you have to do it in the middle of August or like with the with the um what is it the U council meeting because you got the first hearing because what we're going to do now is we're going to go back based on what we have which is middle of the road we will give councel I'm have Joey do a budget and we will have Council based on you know the things that happen with the fire department and what have you right so we'll have those numbers and we we we'll we land right there for now and then when you have your uh meeting in the middle or the before the council meeting in August you'll make firm decisions on how you want to restructure that CRA in terms of oaking going to going to um CRA and then determining if you want to reduce R presidential streets or reduce the Civic Hub that'll be council's at your discretion and then you come in like that and then the mayor comes back and um moving the 500k over to um the CRA he you know depending on council's vote they may be able to achieve a lower uh lower millage should we limit that to the one out of them because that sounds like we need to dis yeah based on what John is saying I think we just need to have a general discussion about the cips and the CRA right okay yes thank you and then on the hearing on three on September 3rd September 3rd a decision is made by Council on where to go with the millage and then whatever Council decides we will turn around and have a budget ready for you for the second reading in September so you could approve a final budget you okay Council anything else at this time um I have a question mayor um as far as grants go I don't know I think someone maybe council member Jackson I asked for how many grants have we applied for how many grants have we actually got we yes I I have provided that information to council member Jackson can we get that as well can forward them the email I'll forward them the email I'll forward to um also I have one question about the grants or one statement because I had asked multiple questions I'm trying to understand how this all works because for example we have our energy project for the um C5 and that Zach is going to apply for grant for it and he said and he had told me that if the grant doesn't come through he that is not a project that he would do but I'm curious if that if we have projects like that why do we need to have them in the product in the can't they be a separate separate from what we're doing with our overall budget because that impacts what we're doing impacts aval taxes right looking at that so could we not keep up with grants separately so that if employees feel like hey there's this great Grant and I can and and it's something that they need for their group and it's a it's not going to impact our budget one way or the other um couldn't they couldn't we set it up set something up some type of accounting method up where that would fall under that and they can apply for it and keep it out of actually the answer would be the answer is it's it's that's not necessary and that would get I don't even know how you do that'd be confusing but the thing is is you have the revenues and the grants right the general fund on your Revenue page and then you come over to your expenditures and you have a you have a CIP and it says that 75% of say that CIP say $100,000 75,000 if we do this project you're going to get a grant for 75,000 then the city's 25,000 so there's the balancing of the revenue with the expenditure it's very clear in the budget what you're saying no there is no separate way to put like some type of grant program SE it whatever we're saying is in that Grant whether we do it or not end up ends up in the bottom line which impacts our taxpayers correct well what yeah but what you're doing is is you're doing projects that are Grand funded that are going to you know help the city make the city better strengthen the city you know whether it be sun tiles or the or the C5 you're you're doing those things and the city is only paying 25 35% for it and the GRS paying for the rest so it's worth the citizens to have I understand to pay for those things Grant works yeah I mean it's quality of life type of thing too I mean well this is true but while you're while we're looking at how to cut budget the reason I'm asking this is because if those things go into the bottom line on our taxpayers and we're looking at how to cut budget I don't want things that they might get fully funded cut if they're getting fully funded but we need to make sure that we're not impacting the bottom line if it's a a grant item that they're saying well if we don't get this grant we're just not going to do understanding though is from Zach is if we do let's say we do the bcso solar array solar if we do that then we're going to get that Grant if we do it we're gonna get that 75,000 and and that's a different project right reimbursed and I understand that that's a different project the one I'm thinking about is the C5 Tesla power bank that one would he he said we that one would be 100% Grant funded is what he was trying to do it gives us four hours of energy after an after a storm or hurricane well if you were to cut that then when if that doesn't that Grant doesn't come through then I have to make a decision as a council person ahead of time whether I think that project is something of value or not not I don't like getting to projects cut that could be helpful in any way if we can get a grant funded and if you were to know that then you would know for that just if I'm not remembering the exact amounts then you would have saved $335,000 because you didn't do the project $35,000 off the bottom line right yeah because that's what the city would pay but the but the taxpayer still would be having to cover in the budget it's still in a general fund expens to get back at the end of the year to roll over into next year's budget and that's what I was that's why I'm saying if we have projects like that that were 100% Grant funded and they're not in that tax bases you know roll back or whatever it would make it to where that project could absolutely move forward and if it doesn't get funded no big deal but we're we're charging the taxpayer for it regardless upfront and so that makes it to where I have to make a decision as to the value of that well you're only there's only an impact to the taxpayer or whatever other revenues that could support that only up to the point where the city pays but of course again and I'm just saying these grants are hard to get so that might be just $75,000 if you said you know we don't want to do that that's $75,000 you're just saying you know what I don't care about that Grant I'm going to save this right up front right now and you're going to cut cut the $35,000 you know we're going to have to pay on that project right and that's the and that's what I my point is is because we all know once we charge that increase to cover those things they never get it back it's just getting rolled over the next year so that was my my point I wish there was a way we could do it accounting wise where those projects could be put off to the side not impacted tax rate these projects that are go noo based on another agency approving it right yeah because it would open it up for our uh staff to be creative and um look at things that you know people might appreciate in the city while we're trying to maintain the infrastructure with the tax dollars that we have well it was a question it was a thought not one that we can do okay I think um we've got some next steps continue to talk through this what would it what would it look like if we took roll back rate the middle of the ground between roll back and where we are now the middle of that $109,000 you'd have to cut if you went between where you're at now roll back $119,000 109 109 if middle of the road is 50% this is the 25% this is the middle middle yeah the middle of it's the middle middle yeah middle of the middle so 25 and and that rate would be what what the middle middle um I think did you put it on here or that would be that would go from um 34519 to 33859 3.4 519 we're at now go to three this is in the general fund 3.3 859 and of course roll back is 33199 109,000 how would that affect the CRA this doesn't affect uh uh let's see to go lower um uh that would be half let me look at the other sheet that would be half of what uh probably I don't know you could plug that in but I'll I'm just going to do an estimate here maybe 80k okay thank you and and the email on the grants that you were talking about is that was going to be dist John if you could forward that to council yeah I could forward it to everybody I would recommend against a council member forwarding from the no no I'll I'll do it that was I'm being factious that's I I will send it to you tomorrow you oh that's very nice of you then I don't have to look through my email it back to you this Council courtesy oh yeah you got to watch the blue laws and the green laws and sunshine laws May mayor may I may may I get a clarification on something did we reach a consensus to hold a CRA special meeting on August 20th before the council meeting I think that's a fair question um if we did we could do it at five o'clock would that be enough time CRA meeting before August 20th the regular coun preferably oh oh we're already meeting on the 20th at 6 so we could meet just at 5: and hold it then assuming assuming nobody has any problems we'll check with Mrs Davis as well will um one hour be enough because Kim hasn't gotten to hear any of this in 4:30 and we might need to do that just to allow sure enough but let's plan on 4:30 we'll just make sure that works for everybody I I potentially may have a conflict so that will be board meeting and it's a special is that right would be a SI board special meeting it might be difficult but I'll see if I can get it noce in the floor today as quickly as I can okay that works um do we need an action here we good I've got consensus on that thank you right counc any we not another Council currently does not have another budget Workshop scheduled why going straight from this to CRA and then to a hearing knowing that John has a limited amount of time on the things that have to happen between now and then then and he's got a lot that has to happen that's a question for John Mr Deo after we have our CRA meeting and we had this one tonight because things may change in the CRA meeting we don't know until we have that should we have another budget meeting to finalize anything else or you will be good for whatever hearing okay and we will we will adjust things accordingly based on your CRA meeting but um tomorrow you know Joey will be putting the things we do know with the middle of the road and I want him to update all those expenditures and those type of things so council is looking uh after tomorrow when Joey does this I would hope Council please don't look at the book that's in front of you today because that will confuse you but we'll get all the updates in there for you and then we'll react to uh we'll react to the c meeting and Joey will update those May Pro else M Willis Jackson I'm good I'm good as well city manager anything if we're about to adjourn I just wanted to change the topic and and briefly uh introduce our new building official Robert dubovsky Is Here he's our new building official Rob welcome welcome to the City of Cape canaval he's a wealth of knowledge and I we've had many very deep discussions about building codes and I'm very impressed with him thank you we appreciate you okay is there anything else Mr City Manager on no sir verification on anything or uh thank you for all that the the thoughtful um work that went into to tonight's meeting is very helpful for us and gives us some direction thank you thank you as well and thank you John and Joey and everyone who's a part of this uh I I appreciate everyone's hard work and uh Council if there's nothing else looking for a motion to adjourn I will second all right meeting adjourned thank you