States of America stands one nation indivisible  with liberty and justice for all thank you city clerk please call the  role council member Davis here council   member Jackson here mayor protm Kellum here  mayor Morrison here council member Willis   here Council thank you thank you all for being  here mayor protim and all in attendance today   the public participation portion of the  meeting if you intended to speak and from   the public or you're U online participating  we ask that you please raise your hand we'll   recognize you treat anyone here who'd like  to speak to please come forward um we do ask   that you fill out a card I do not have any  this point if anyone like to speak please   raise your hand seeing none we'll go ahead  and shift over online see if any hands are raised I don't see any hand rais online so with  that we'll close public participation bring it   back to the items for discussion we have three  today and one informational item number one and   items for discussion is to review vision statement  mission statement and organizational values and   provide possible changes affirm or affirmation to  City staff city manager if you'd like to kick us   off here we ready thank you I would um please  thank and welcome everyone and thank you for   being here um so city council has for several  years had uh annual strategic retreat planning   Retreat and was facilitated by the third party  consultant um and the nice thing about a retreat   is it provides this opportunity for Council and  staff to get together in this kind of informal   environment to talk about a lot of these important  higher level things but also it's meant to inspire   discussion of maybe what are those things that we  haven't talked about that we should talk about in   terms of how we want to prioritize our focus in  our budget this is the first part of the budget   this is the first part step in our budget so um  it's about fresh perspective during the retreat   Council and staff engag in open Communications  share insights and viewpoints towards our shared   vision for the city uh structured yet relaxed  environment strengthens bonds and teamwork among   Council staff in the community at the conclusion  of this our goal is to have clearly identified   actionable steps to address challenges Implement  strategies and Achieve Citywide objectives but   we're not going to be making decisions here at  this Workshop we're going to be um developing our   thoughts thoughts that will go into the budget at  the 2023 Retreat city council approved a follow-up   workshop and that was only to review CPS and  at that Workshop the cips were reintroduced and   reviewed again and that was helpful for us last  year so we're learning and um better ways to do   this every year Council feedback was provided for  each item at that follow-up Retreat and each item   generally fell into one of three categories there  was consensus for the item to be placed in the   budget may be tabled to the Future or just cancel  it all together but then after that Workshop while   we're having our budget meeting city council  elected not to have an annual strategic retreat   in 2024 as a cost cutting measure but instead  only have a c only to have a CF Workshop which   is what this is so we can always go back in Future  years and do a strategic planning Retreat if we   want to but if we like what we're doing here we  can continue doing this so um accordingly this   is that Workshop we're going to f focus on some  things that we did in the retreat vision mission   organizational values we're going to look at  strategic pillars and we're going to look at   the CIP presentations this will not include a  review of the consultant sourced insights into   the larger view of the state of the nation Trends  and Municipal governance and the results of a   SWAT analysis so the first order of business is a  review of our vision statement mission statement   organizational values and provide possible  changes affirmation to staff um next slide please you have the uh we should be into  the item three attachment Daniel if we could yeah um there you go yes next one vision  statement it was last amended by City Council in   2023 by unanimous vote our mission statement and  organizational values were established several   years ago and have undergone very few changes  but our vision statement is our North Star it   motivates our team and it guides our city as  it grows so that's our vision statement a warm   inclusive Beachside community that Embraces  its small town feel and enhances the beauty   and integrity of its national natural environment  promoting resilience safety sensible Mobility with   an emphasis on pedestrian needs business-friendly  development and responsible Community stewardship   through a shared commitment to a balanced  respectful and neighborly philosophy that   inspires Future Ready essential Civic services  and quality of life amenities each of the words   in the vision statement were carefully chosen  to defi to Define our trajectory it's where we   are acknowledging our most important assets our  destination acknowledging our needs and desires   by what we choose to promote and how we plan to  get there our commitment next slide please with   this in mind certain words have been bolded  we call these our buckets meaning that as a   community we agree to the idea that the actions  we propose which can be justified by one or more   of these words are likely appropriate actions  but maybe more importantly actions we might   propose which cannot be justified by these words  may be inappropriate next slide please the well   I should probably pause there are we good with  the vision statement or do we want to possibly   amend any part of it mayor uh Council any  comments on the vision I'm good with it I   right now I see no need to make any changes to  it thank you mayor BR Tim council member Jackson   think I think it's it's good at this point I  don't see any reason to change anything thank   you I'm good with it me as well I appreciate  everyone's feedback I thank city manager thank   you okay next slide Daniel please mission  statement the mission statement is why do   we exist it serves as a guiding Beacon Ser  articulating our core reason for our local   government's existence the mission of the city  Cape canabal government is to provide excellence   in Municipal Services by supporting a high quality  of life fiscal responsibility and environmental   stewardship while celebrating diversity and  fostering Innovation and should pause there   mayor and see if there's any desire to change our  mission statement or affirm it Council change or affirm I would affirm also affirm affirm I  affirmed too and my comments on vision and   Mission I think we can all see maybe little things  but for now I think we move forward and this is   really our first year coming off of adopting this  have we even been a full year under this newly it   was the I don't think the mission changed last  year but the vision changed last year thank you   all right we'll record consensus there next  slide actually there are four of these under   organizational values uh these shape our culture  and different differentiate us as an employer   they provide guidance and help us attract and  retain Talent our values should resonate with   our citizens and motivate our staff so the first  is accountability we have a responsibility to   one another and the public to perform our jobs  effectively transparently and efficiently and we   take that responsibly responsibility seriously  civility we treat all persons with kindness   dignity and respect commitment to Excellence we  believe our role is to make the city kit canaval   the ideal Community for our residents businesses  and visitors communication we communicate openly   transparently clearly directly and in a timely  manner with one another and the community   dedication we are dedicated to performing  our duties to the best of our abilities and   going above and beyond to achieve high quality  results diversity inclus inclusivity we believe   there is value in diversity and celebrate  our uniqueness within the organization the   community and the world fiscal responsibility we  are responsible stewards of the city's resources   through professional management and transparent  Financial practices we acrew the highest benefit   from each tax dollar fun while we take our work  seriously we cultivate an envirment that includes   humor friendship and camaraderie I think we had  that at lunch today it was nice Innovation we   encourage thinking outside the box in search of  new and better ways to provide quality services   to the community Integrity we strive to make  decisions and take actions based upon what   is Right rather than what is expedient we are  honest and we own up to our own mistakes internal   strength a reinvigorated corporate culture has  inspired greater Unity among staff and increased   productivity proactivity we actively seek to  identify and plan for issues before they arise   with the aim of averting problems rather than  having to solve them after they Cur occur personal   Liberty we respect the balance of personal Liberty  with the interests of all likewise we recognize   that by protecting home rule Authority we respect  the Liberties of the city teamwork and recognition   of the worth of each individual and their  contributions to our mission we value and honor   one another and are committed to a culture of  teamwork across the municipal organization value   we commit to the development of collaborative  trusting relationships with Community stakeholders   Vision we look toward the future generating  goals and strategies to that make the city   kit canaval even better place to live and that  was it for organizational values mayor there's   any comments change or affirm the comments are the  all of these I think there's roughly 16 um could   be wrong on that but the uh they're all titled  organizational values yes sir and I think the   agenda so there you know sometimes you'll see core  values you know outlined or highlighted within the   organiz like these three are core values and then  these are the organizational values but the ones   I think the agenda might have cut off at diversity  and inclus yeah we did cover that one it well I I   think the agenda summary yeah it got cut off those  aren't there there are no other values after that   but there are more and these aren't separated  was that just I think that's the way it printed   the the paper copy stopped after diversity and  inclusivity there's no more after that okay in the   paper copy but what you see on the screen is the  the full one um what you saw on the screen before   was the full one okay so if you're looking at the  screen there's the values in the agenda which goes   from accountability to diversity and then there  they continue after that there are other ones   that city manager just went through do we want  to amend or or affirm or or change any of these Council thank you I think the uh  the words are good as they are I   think our actions need to uh step  up and meet them as a whole thank you I don't think it's for today my comments would  be that we do think about out of these values   which ones we hold the the closest describe which  are sort of those values that we're not willing to   compromise on um I think you know vision is where  where we're going as the agenda summary says talks   about the North Star mission is what we're going  to do to to reach that place what things we're   going to execute on and values is really how we  make decisions that we're filtering all all these   values through as many decisions as we can and I  think those core ons are the ones that we should   try to identify maybe next year between now and  then and and tag them as as core values that we   try to overc communicate um those are my comments  so I don't think changes today are necessary   certainly willing um if needed but thank you can I  ask a question yes council member Jackson on and I   see the vision mission and values and you look at  a lot of this it seems like it pertains mostly to   City staff um is this for you know generally you  know the values that we should be showing to the   public is this what we're anticipating you know as  far as for our city staff because I'm knew this is   my first time to do this so I just want to make  sure I understand some of these definitely look   like they would be more staff related versus you  know what we're holding out to the community so   what was the thought process on this all three  were developed by staff the vision the mission   and the values and they were presented um several  years ago through the Strategic plan and Retreat   process but they're always presented to council  to affirm or modify that when we finish with this   if we accept this airm this we all look to this  document for our guidance as a staff so we're   taking that cue from council's affirmation of  it or changing of it okay and see when I look   at it like that um just myself um a lot of these  things we should be doing regardless I mean so   uh what do we want to hold out if we're holding  this out to the public is our our organizational   values some of this almost relates to and it looks  like it would relate internally mostly um you know   like the fun well you know the citizens really  they want us to have fun events and that sort of   thing um and but that's really more of to me like  a workplace environment type of thing that you're   looking for uh so I look at some of these and  it just looks like we should there almost should   be separated out because it some of them look  more uh human you know HR related versus what   we would look for in communicating to the the  community as far as our values as a whole well   there there are organizational values the values  held by the organization which is Council and staff yes when it says the wi the we is our  Administration City staff directors and I   think Council M Jackson you're saying you know  today we don't really have identified values for   we the people of Cape Canaveral well what we're  projecting to them I mean when you look at this   and you look at an organizational chart and you  look at who's doing what and that kind of thing   if we talk to our citizens do they really care if  we have a fun work environment when they're having   problems with some issue with the city probably  not right so then you look at in Innovation   absolutely that would be we want to be Innovative  for our citizens we want to put that out for all   of us so some of these things look like they would  be more HR related like uh do we really have to   say that we we need to include civility to our  citizens of course we do you know that looks like   a more of a HR director to me versus a directive  for us as a council to the community then same   thing with commitment to Excellence that would  absolutely be one to the community communication   yes dedication yes diversity and inclusivity  that looks more like a HR one to me physical   responsibility Community fun HR we want it to be a  fun environment for our staff Innovation community   see so I'm having a hard time with this because  or not having a hard time but I questioned this   because of that some of these are not necessarily  applicable would they don't they seem more like to   me a staff Thing versus a citizen thing so I was  trying to determine how does this apply that's why   I asked that question um Mr Mayor yes mayor Tim  I think I think um what you were saying about um   deciding on core values as an organization would  kind of address what uh council member uh Jackson   is saying you know there's some that are actual  core values that we have as a council and our   and a responsibility to our um residents and then  we have organizational values that are important   to the staff and so I think if we separated the  core vales like you were saying Mr Mayor um and   then kept these in there but made made a list of  five core values or three core values and then and   I agree because truly we're giving direction  to staff and our citizens from this and these   are what we're saying our values are so we need  to be clear and it that's a lot of value during   statements for staff to try to to to follow versus  if it's in an HR format that is then something   between Todd and staff but as what we're putting  out to our community right I think we need clear   and concise and this is a lot this is a saying  we're going to do have a lot of core values well   I think like commitment to Excellence fin fiscal  responsibility that's what's important to the   residents things like that and the other I say you  fall into place to for an organizational value I   agree and and integrity that's a big that's a big  one for me as a citizen I want I want to deal with   people with integrity at all government levels  which we see in our world these days isn't always   the case so um I think looking at core values  is a good thing we might as well have something   that we can hit for our citizens instead of such  a broad group brush stroke that we could miss part   of it and then look at what we want to have for  our staff's work environment so they enjoy their   job under HR types of policies thank you thank  you council member Willis or Davis um I think   it's organizational values it's organization it's  staff it's city council it's everything we do with   anyone I think they stand as a whole I think they  need to be at such a high standard we can never   attain it we've got to keep striving for it so I  don't want to water anything down I don't want to   separate anything out I want everybody to strive  in how we deal with each other how we deal with   staff how we deal with the public and I think we  need to keep it as is and push everyone to adhere   to it thank you council member Davis I have no  problem keeping it the way it is I don't I agree   with council member Willis I don't see the need to  separate it um I do agree we have to create St U   excuse me treat staff with respect and each other  with respect on this dis so I am I'm good with the   way it is so I confirm thank you city manager I  think we all went through anything you want to   speak to uh I'm trying to gather consensus here  um and I I may be mistaken but it seems like um   there are two council members that are affirming  as is and three council members asking for some   changes am I reading that correctly I think  yes uh the the idea of uh potentially and I not   necessarily saying it needs to happen happen this  year is we might want to move towards identifying   the values out of the I think it's over 15 that  are core to to who we are and the and and so we   have core values and then you have those are the  things that we possess today already and to be a   part of the administration to be a part of the  council elected by the people we typically can   identify these exist today and the people and  that's why we are who we are then there's as   council member Willis was talking more to what I  call aspirational values so some of these such as   fun as council member Jackson is something we  Aspire when appropriate when time to have fun   in all that we do and I remember being a part of  these and so one thing is the we in here who is   that I do think that we is city council and City  staff and a minimum should be because there should   be per good strong alignment between the values  of the council and the values of the city staff   there should be strong aspirational values towards  those and so my hope is that I think we're two one   or two years off of these we went from no values  well we had values we just no I mean it like that   didn't have them [Laughter] documented no written  values that were voted on uh in a meeting and so   I think that we went from a blank piece of paper  to to having some standard that we all agree and   and I think this is the one where we could uh  not necessarily take away but sort of group you   know the really important ones just change the  GR yeah and and I think council member Jackson   put it in a way that I I think I understand best  that there are some that are HR staff column and   some that are Community facing column um is it  the desire of this Council to segregate those   out into two lists and we can present them in next  year's document but present them as two different lists yeah I'm not sure that I think that the  perception of if staff has a different set of   values than Council I think that's well it would  to be in addition to but I the Council should   value that as well is my point is and and and  so maybe when we when we tag it you know this   is I don't like the idea of saying these are  necessarily just for City staff right um it's   it's a good high Lev discussion to have and maybe  we could agree to um not make make a decision on   it this year but come back next year with some  other ideas how we might amend this and um one   thing just off of that statement what you were  saying with you know our mission statement is   that we're going to take care of our community  physical responsibility all those things and in   a as a city we are going to have accountability  to our community we're going to have we're going   to treat everyone with civility you know we're  going to have a commitment to Excellence to our   community we're going to try to openly communicate  with you and have the dedication that you need and   we're going to be physically responsible and  have integrity and in doing while we're doing   that we're going to try to work to be diverse  and inclusive we're going to work to be fun a   fun environment for both staff and Council we're  going to use our Innovative abilities to make   sure we're bringing things to you the way that we  should we're going to have internal strength to   get those things done for you as a citizen you  know that's kind of how it's look where it be   multi-layered versus stripping everything out  or anything in the way that we communicate it   because I think they're all great you know being  proactive we we support personal Liberty but I   think you have a core group that covers Assa  and then um including our community and then   under that some of these are how we're going  to do it what what traits we're going to use   to provide those things so maybe multi-layered  versus two separate breakouts are we okay with   leaving it as is today I think obviously counc  member Davis and Willis I think that's fine for   the sake of the bigger picture here I know  we've a lot of things we need to get through   but thank you for letting us talk through that I  think it'd be helpful if I also met with council   member Jackson to get more of her ideas maybe  for next year we could put together an alternate   proposal that works for everybody that's fine  happy now thank you thank you all thank you mayor um let's see um that's it for that one  next slide uh we are on strategic pillars we're   moving on to the item number two in the agenda  uh the Strategic pillars were introduced um by   Doug Thomas at our first um annual strategic  Retreat which he uh helped us with a few years   ago and the idea of um having pillars are to uh  form the foundation of our strategic plan each   pillar is reflective of themes identified in the  vision statement and those that emerged in the 22   revisioning project um accordingly the all city  project s and inies are assigned to a particular   pillar based upon the nature of the activity so if  we could go to that Daniel back to that attachment yeah so the first one um I want to discuss is  the um sense of place uh in sense of place we   pursue proactive measures to preserve and enhance  the community's appearance as a distinctive small   town Coastal Community with open and natural  environments green spaces Parks benches cultural   assets with distinctive and Progressive design  design standards and appealing public spaces   for multigenerational recreation and Gathering so  that's how things look how the community perceives   us the next pillar is economic vitality and  development and in this one it's about enhancing   the appearance of the city's infrastructure  and appearance to a stimulate investment and   employment in support of the local economy and  provide fiscal stability Revenue diversification   to the City by encouraging Economic Development  Redevelopment initiatives to address the needs   of residents and visitors who are drawn to the  community the uh next one is the um we get we   went to a different slide so we're going out of  order now um can go back to where you were first   one there you go oh there you go U multimodal  that's um encouraging uh opportunities to   implement improve safe and attractive modes  of transportation systems accessible by all   generations and physical abilities to connect  neighborhoods public facilities recreational   areas and Commercial centers throughout the  community and what was the next one resiliency pillar and that one is lead by example as  a community that Embraces sustainability   and resiliency in the design and operation of  its facilities infrastructure program Services   budgets and development through Forward Thinking  policies ordinances education and then I believe   lastly is community engagement strengthen  relationships trust and confidence in city   government through the proactive use of two-way  Communications using face to face surveys and   Technology to encourage the Civic engagement  and participation of our residents businesses   Community Based organizations and visitors and  those are our five pillars mayor um so what we've   done is um grouped all of the cips that you're  going to be seeing in the item three under one or   more of the Strategic pillars and that's just an  overview of those pillars I don't know if there's   any questions or comments mayor if there's  not we can move on Council any questions or comments okay thank you moving on to item  three this is uh the meet of the workshop   CIP is a capital Improvement program um and  we're going to do the the presentations of   projects programs and initiatives and updates  each year um these are programmed into the   budget now your departments have carefully  assessed their needs Community needs and   desires and also city council may have items to  bring to this Workshop the Blue Sky items um we   did uh send an email out to council a couple  weeks ago about if you have any of those blue   sky ideas you want to present into this uh slide  presentation please do it but we didn't receive   any um that doesn't mean you can't present them  here live there will be a time for that so what   we'll do is just go through May if it's okay  we'll go through the slides first and then we   can talk about each one and then when we're done  talking about them we can get into the Blue Sky   the ideas that the city council may have but  thank you very much and before we do that I   want to recognize I do have a p uh speaker card  from Dr Shannon Roberts um it would it be your   desire we did close the public participation  to speak now I see that you wrote it was on   the vision item number one before would you like  to come forward now and speak this is a workshop   so yes come come forward and take your time  thank you Council we're okay with that thank you iiz for being late and thank you for the  opportunity now I did want to thank you all   for doing this because it is follow on to last  year one of the concerns I've got um that you   look at the vision and you look at the key words  in there that's what we usually professionally   trained to do and that's what concerns me about  the vision statement I know that right now is   not the time to picking along that line but I do  think that it compels me to write something up   to counsel and to staff as it relates to some of  the concerns I've got one of missing words from   my perspective is residential we talk about uh in  this case you know business primly I think we need   to also talk about residential friendly too I'm  very concerned I talked to staff about the fact   that we keep having the liberation of hotels and  it makes me wonder if we're being business driven   as a vision and the mission for the city or the  residential driven needs of our community are   being considered I agree with um Council concern  the cor values when I read that strategically   you know you're looking at the city as a whole  what are our values for the city as a whole you   can do an internal strategic document which the  council the staff could do but I see this as not   being Community Driven Community written for the  community in that broader sense of the word so I   just wanted to mention that uh suggestions are  to maybe s think about adding maybe an advisory   committee called the residential development like  we have a business development advisory committee   I just think the residents getting lost in this  and um you know I made the observations to sever   of the council members in a separate Forum that  even the cape Center you know I just concerned   that we're not thinking about the residents  when we talk about that being a destination for   our residents visitors and so forth because in my  opinion it was so dir of cake canaval driven items   in there something that walk the community Through  It like that so my suggestion accessibility is   another issue I would have thought that we'd  have an accessible Cape Center just from the   GetGo you know that that it's not accessible for  for those that are Mobility device driven so I'm   just using if you don't mind I just mentioned  that as a separate resident I'll write some of   my observations that'll be cons just as a resident  to the council and staff in terms of my concerns   about the way in which this is organized and  communicated to the community because with   council member Jackson that I just didn't look  at it as a city driven document um and also I   looked for measure metrics measurable when I look  at warm we talking about the temperature you know   things like that I'm just using that when I look  at each word and I didn't see residential in there   to me that would have been a a keyword right up  front and instead we're talking about business   so to me that's conting a different message than I  think was intended and so forth so just I'm sorry   for I was late thank you for your understanding  and I'll write up a separate document one of my   observations instead of taking the time thank you  thank you and I know you're saying just a resident   but U thank you for your service uh on the city  council and um it's valued to me at least to have   former council members helping contribute who's  been down the way and you've always continued to   do that so um thank you again for your comments  City I believe that was all I had if anyone else   intended to speak since we did open it up I will  say if anyone online would like to speak before   we get into the capital Improvement Projects  please go ahead and open or raise your hand and   I'll make sure to recognize you okay seeing none  we'll go ahead and close it and bring it back to   our city manager Council are we good to move  forward as you request thank you uh and I did   receive a text from a member of the community  right now he says he's on the CIP meeting he   has no sound and no sound using the phone call  and number two so I sent a message to our it   manager to get out to work on that um moving on  um so each year um departments carefully assess   and and present uh as in previous years we will  proceed with presenting items in this order first   as an update on completed projects programs and  initiatives then we'll do an update on ongoing   projects programs initiatives it we'll talk about  new staff proposed projects programs initiatives   for Council consideration and then of course new  city council member proposed projects and then   open discussion uh and next steps so we're going  to start that with completed projects next slide   these are from the 2324 current budget so what we  finished is the bike lane striping the sidewalk   completion project in the non-presidential  streets storm water infrastructure GIS mapping   and inspection uh water recomendation facility  with supervisory control and data acquisition   system in the uh Community Economic Development we  have completed the C5 resiliency upgrades in parka   we've completed the canaval city park Little  League field lights and the cape Center Grand   Opening recently in public works we con completed  the canaval city park Hardware upgrades next slide   please these are the soon Tobe completed project  products or projects we didn't include um updates   on them because they're just wrapping up very  any any day or week now uh Center Street drainage   basin improvements Center Street Pump Station  Veterans Park biosil and raid Garden Veterans   Memorial Park under capital projects and in Parker  we've got the Civic Hub Phase 2 we've got manity   Trail repairs and upkeep and Public Works Services  the clarifier rehab and lift station number five   all those are wrapping up and will be done before  we get out of this fiscal year so uh that's what's   going on and what's been finished so now we have  the new items and we're going to start with Chief   Sergeant just because he can get called out in  a moment notice we wanted to put him first and   Dave's got a couple items to present if we can go  to the next slide while Chief Sergeant's coming up thank you welcome Chief Sergeant thank you what you have in of you for the next five  years on our staff vehicle replacements we keep   our staff vehicles for a minimum of 13 years each  and we rotate them through because of mileage and   switch them out with different people staff  Vehicles also include the uh Battalion Chief's   vehicle that you see going with trucks most  of the time and any other vehicles vehicle we   use to transport the beach wheelchair and  stuff like that so we keep those for 13 years the next slide is the replacement of the uh the trucks the  Pumpers Pumpers are replaced on a 20year   rotation we keep them for a minimum of 20 years  and the ladder truck is replaced every 10 years   the ladder truck that we replaced or we bought  last year that we won't see for about another   three years um that was bought with uh 1.2  million uh from the state half from the port   and half from the city the additional 400,000  approximately each and that truck U you did   not have to pay anything for the truck prior  to that because we got that on the Department   of Homeland Security grate so uh all of these  trucks uh we reach out to try and get grant   money for uh and they're not getting any cheaper  and they're not coming any quicker so if we're   ordering a truck because it's 18 years old  it's because we're waiting years for it to be built are the only two things city manager asked  me to present and um you see the uh the Pumpers   one is in proposed for fiscal year 2425 and the  second one is in 28 29 and I'm assuming they're   similar Vehicles it's just inflation we're  acknowledging there with the price difference   right Dave yeah in the one in 24 25 we pushed  that out from last year we lad truck right and   so we do right now we have two trucks on order  one's replacing a 32y old truck and I'm sorry   30y old truck and the other one is replacing  the ladder truck that will be 12 years old when   we finally get the new one in any questions for  chief Sergeant mayor I do not uh thank you very   much and I appreciate when I read this CIP  it says 2005 P Quantum that's the existing   today and that's what you're referring to as the  30y year that's the 20 yes thank you and we're   ordering it in 24 25 we'll see that probably 28  and of course as Chief Sergeant always says the   port pays for half of these things the city pays  for half because we both use them and mayor to go   just a little further I want to thank Chief  Sergeant because these are Big Ticket items   and the chief goes out there gets these grants  and in addition like last year you know might   have cost us can't remember the exact number 400  and some thousand when in the end it only cost   us 300 and some thousand uh because the chief  was able to get out and get us money from other   entities so that saved the city a lot of money I  I have to give that credit to the court the court   went after that 1.2 got for that's great Council  any other go ahead Chief that's it any questions I just want to clarify so we said we were we  would look at ordering it in 2025 and then you   would see it delivered when 2028 okay hopefully  before that right now it's three years out okay yes the part of the city that's Avon  by the city is County that's right do they   participate in the purchase of these prop  uh prop you know they provide our dispatch   901 services for us oh okay we do not want  to get into that business thank you I one   Clarity so just to make sure I understand the  450,000 in the the CIP item that expenditure is   projected to come out in this next budget  24 25 fiscal year but we will not receive   that inventory until a few years later for the  replacement pumper we typically get a discount   by prepaying for it that way quite a bit of a  discount if we prepay when when would a couple   years later though you said we would receive  it so and then the one that's slotted for 2829   the 500,000 that one will be a couple years  out as well when we actually receive the we   hope it goes back preco because we only waited  eight months prior to co for fire be built okay so supply chain Dynamics call it what you  want yeah it's probably some hot topics uh   well thank you council member Willis or Davis  anything for chief Sergeant or no just thank   you yes thank you sir appreciate all you all  do thank you Chief Sergeant uh we're moving   on then mayor uh next is capital projects um  Tim Carlile can be on the hot seat for this   one and Tim's going to start uh by talking  about Oak Lane improvements which have been   kind of pushed back um a familiar story  is we're waiting for utility pole work to happen is this the yeah yours isn't  so hot what John down you moving down take it away Tim O please can you hear  me there we go yes sir I got those all right   so this uh this project was slated to be done  last year this actually this fiscal year uh but   due to power pole removals and relocations it's  been pushed another year um I have been informed   by FPL that the power poles are bare and they're  ready to be removed I'm not sure how fast LPL is   going to get in there to remove those poles but  the sooner the better and we can get started on   this project so they had to relocate the poll so  they installed new poles to put the utilities on   the new poles now we're just waiting for the Old  Poles to get removed that was to make way for the road do you said they have been removed they  are still there the old ones are but they've   already transferred the old utilities to the new  utility poles uh which is on the RightWay lines   um we're just waiting now for FPL to come remove  the old poles that are now bare and in the entire   project um it started really I think because  there were some storm water problems at the   Cantina restaurant up there and the frustration  of the business owner of where can the storm   water go and there's really no place to put it  unless it was conveyed to the Canaveral ditch   well the Canaveral ditch is behind the last east  or Western most oaklane property but you can't   really put in a storm water conveyance system  when you with gutters and curbs if you don't   have pavement so you have to put the pavement down  so we had to build a road to have the storm water   system uh so that's kind of like how we got here  um the residents of the the road were um and I'm   saying it's mostly for council member Jackson  because she wasn't here when this was done um   mayor protm Kellum worked um very diligently  behind the scenes on this one talking with   uh the the owners on the road who or the along  the road who were originally were not in favor   of having it paved but um through talking with a  meeting with them some public meetings I attended   some with her as well um she she brought a  sense of keie to the whole thing where all   the neighbors said yeah we do want this but one  thing they don't want is sidewalks they said we   do not want sidewalks so there's no sidewalks in  this project they also said they wanted reclaimed   water so that's included in here as well Tim  did I miss anything no the the plans uh the   plans are pretty much been finalized and the bid  package is ready to go we're just waiting on the   pole removal before I go out to bid for this  project so we're just ready to go but yeah is   the fpnl poll situation the same situation on  Filmore is it the same people that remove that   poll I don't know I'm not sure it is FPL I mean  is there a way that we could move it forward um   I can talk to Brian babcox and get with Dave  Dicky I think Dave dicki is working on that   project um and Todd I can get with them to find  out and Michelle mural with FPL she's also very   helpful okay she's the government Affairs  Le is on now the original plan date is 2017 2018 yeah I agree yeah there was another delay  also when um our city engineer retired and the   plans weren't fully finished we had to get  them finished by the next city engineer yes so um that's the time frame for it um you  see it's coming from um two two different um   cips um storm water infrastructure maintenance  number seven um and both of those are the next   two slides Daniel if we go so this is storm water  6 you see 300,000 coming out of the storm water   fund Enterprise fund and the other one Daniel  i7 this is construction support 550,000 coming   from the general fund and it is budgeted it's  it won't be finished this year is the thing so   it'll be rolling into next year that was one of my  questions so any of these budgets this one having   started in 2017 or 2018 yeah we just keep rolling  it to the next year until it's completed okay that   money is sitting in the budget this year won't be  expended this year it's just going to move into   next year's budget thank you um another question  I know we talked about this before but Oak Lane   is in the CRA um why couldn't we use funds from  that to instead of taking the 550,000 from the   general fund John you have have your thoughts on  C you contributing to this I know the CRA is going   to be um hit heavily with other items coming  up that's this has figured out to be part of   the funding the funding is is there and like Todd  says the CRA uh especially when the determination   is made with the presidential streets and whatever  the CRA is is going to pretty much you know EV   the funds will be evaporated probably through the  first presidential street so as we go for planning   on the uh in the CRA the $2.6 million maybe that  might be available in the CRA this upcoming year   24 25 a lot of it could could be consumed within  presidential streets depending on how far we get I   don't know how where the Design's going to be or  whatever and there's other things happening the   CRA so the oak um oaklane not being included in  the CRA was was done it was done in the general   fund because the CRA could not accommodate it  based on what we had proposed there were other   projects in the CRA and that that's that's  basically yeah it's basically it's basically   looked at the total funding and and that that was  not doable right but this is my the same question   I've had for a couple years now I know we're  getting old watching this project aren't we   right this is a project that started in 2017 2018  okay now we're committing the CRA funds to the   presidential master plan which needs to happen  absolutely but this has been trying to happen   since 2017 right but funding was never the issue  funding was never the issue though in the general   fund for for Oak Lane it was never the issue  there was plenty of money in general fund for   this and in storm water uh so it wasn't it wasn't  because of the CRA I think it was because of a uh   well Todd could speak to this better than I could  but a sequence of events of everything that was   happening on that road with the flooding and with  the residents and the resistance the council ran   up against with the residents a few years ago so  this is this is not this wasn't held up because of   funding with within the general fund uh or the  storm water this has to do more with all those   other issues which is not for me to talk about  for Council to talk about with the residents and   what have you so yeah it's been going a long time  though you're right but it had nothing to do with   funding in the general fund or or storm water  there were other issues that yeah well I think   residents it took a long time to convince them  all to be on the same P exactly and that's why and   they've been there for a few years now yeah yeah  and we're still working on it yeah okay but that's   it but I just I think it's it's important to not  let Council know that this was not a funding issue   this was a the issue you just said these these  are all proposed with certain funding sources   and and you don't have to make any decisions on  any of these today we're just looking at all of   them so you have the totality of the picture and  after today you'll have been exposed to all of   them and then you can start making those decisions  about well I want to do this one I want to push   that one back I want to fund this one with that  whatnot but uh great question well I just think   you know as a council we need to look at the  project start dates on some so you know move   forward well and when you talk about that project  start dates but also um just being a new council   member and feedback I from what I'm seeing we may  need a regulatory person that follows up on these   things with FPL and the utility providers because  we have two things that have been on a major hold   based on that so we need to keep a a handle on  anything that is involving the utility and do   continued follow up with that and I don't know if  it needs to be someone's responsibility that would   be something you had determined Todd but I know  that uh the when you look at public um providers   of telecommunications internet and other utilities  they have one group that is that deals with us and   the government to make sure things are happening  for municipalities we may have to do the same   thing for utility yeah just the opposite direction  because we seem to have some bottlenecks there if   I may uh council member Jackson um I have a slew  of emails and communication between FPL and myself   uh that dates back about a year and a half and  it's non-stop if you want me to provide those to   you I can well and I'm not I've been on them to  get this done uh but not to fall into the rabbit   hole a little bit deeper but there was a lot of  uh issues with this project uh to do with property   line movements uh it actually gotten taken to  court um I mean there's is a lot of history down   the street um that I had to dig into when I took  this project over so thank you and in no way do I   mean that you guys aren't following up I meaning  anytime you're dealing with utility vendors you   have a whole new element of things to deal with  and their internal groups are broken out to where   every group within that utility handles this much  and then when you get past that the the roles and   responsibility for that much that I handle you now  get to deal with 25 other people to get anything   done so it slows down tremendously and I know just  from what you all have said there were things that   took a while for the residents to get on on board  there you just mentioned a court case but then   when we get to the point where all of that has  gone past if we're still having utility issues   sometimes it takes escalating on our side for us  to reach out at a higher level to get anyone and   in the earlier days like Tim was alluding to  there what he's talking about uh Mickey back   there was those multiple surveys they they got  multiple entities you know get trying to get a   valid survey I don't get into all the specifics  but that was a long road there but that didn't   really have anything to do with Paving the road  that was a property it's still held it's still   held up it's still held up to work it's still  held up to work because you couldn't get you   couldn't get a plan without a survey you have to  have a survey a proper survey to get a plan and   that's what nobody could agree on was the survey  so until that survey was adopted and and voted in   by the council and how long ago was that um 18 no  was was well no there you go back to 17 18 18 19   I know when I started when I Dr question was it  2019 yeah when I started on the council in 2019   I brought it to budget meeting that we wanted  to do and the property thing was already done   okay and also I was given about a month ago Brian  Babcock from FPL did tell me we expect it to take   six months to replace these polls it's taking  them a month so they're actually five months   ahead of schedule which is I'm I'm I'm breathing  Rel side relief yeah I'm like good we need to   get this going so okay thank you um if there's no  other questions we can move on to thurm Boulevard improvements all right so thurm Boulevard  uh is another um pretty big project that   that I'd like to take on um it has been in  the works uh since 2021 um we were waiting   for some impact fees to come back from the  county uh Dave Dicky and me went up to the   county and got um correct me if I'm wrong  Dave $1.2 million I believe in Impact fees   and uh we're going to use this towards this  project yeah that's on the not the next slide   but the following slide one more down there at  the bottom impact fees $1.2 million those are   collected from hotels that we're getting back  in our city to put towards this right so this   project um also was a uh a previous Engineers  uh project uh planwise so I am now having to   submit the plans to a another engineer for  them to take over the project uh they're in   Pro they're in they're reviewing what John parar  had come up with um and they're going to give me   a price quote on how much it will take to  finish up the the plans and everything um   but the projected cost um is still yet to be  determined um due to a uh older uh Engineers   cost estimate um which was in this amount so  I I think the price will probably end up going up from the 1.4 8 1.5 roughly uh the total  of $2,800,000 and again I will go after any   grants that I can find for storm water and  any Road Grants that I can possibly find um so will give me that figure again I'm sorry  2 million yes $2,800,000 is everything okay oh   that okay I was just I didn't know what  if you need some help the um the pro the   funding I guess so the two million dollars  could go up and it says waiting on funding   from rard County impact fees do we know roughly  how much that is going to be think right now we   have 800,000 I believe I'll let I'll let  John speak on that but we're supposed to   get another 4 we 800,000 I believe we got the  400,000 already da it was that the one we got   last year we so we'll have 1.2 million when we do  this project we do in Impact fees yes in Impact   feas yes we were awarded that back in August  of uh last year probably earlier than that and yeah that are not part of this but in answer  to your question Maria we we will be getting   $1.2 million imp towards this project but it  will be imperative if if it could happen and   this that's what Tim's talking about working  on is if we can get additional grants because   he's still pursuing getting his arms around  the whole thing and as time goes on you know   the cost Rises and uh obviously the sooner we  could get to this project the less that's GNA   cost but um if we delay a year or two years this  project this project could be very expensive and   that was one question I had is what type of um  formula do we use to determine the inflationary   rate if these are going into years away from when  they're budgeted because there's no way with cost   of goods increases that have happened in the last  few years that these projects can remain on with   on target with what we projecting if it's several  years out so how are you figuring that how am I   figuring that that those things those things are  unknown you you there isn't anybody in this room   that knows what's going to happen it's going  to influence the cost just like we did with   the you know just like we did with the community  center and the cape Center when we got a loan in   2017 didn't start doing anything to 2020 right  and we get what we do we get a loan for 5.5 6   it was a 6.2 million I believe 6.2 million and  then you know the cost of you know because it   took a couple years the ending cost was uh 7.9  million for the both so yeah so K you asked me   an impossible question and uh well I wasn't sure  because I know that with things that I've worked   with before they will use an inflationary rate  that's a guideline that the government gives   out but the problem with that is is everyone  based on who you talk to thinks inflation is   different so wasn't sure if there was a formula  that we use because these go on this many years   are concerning no but staff tries to be as aggress  as aggressive as it could in in uh closing the Gap   by getting grants and and things of that nature  it's the only way you know um Dicky gets us the   uh impact fees to the hotels and what have you  Tim works on the grants and then um when I look   at the residual I see you know what you know how  we're fixed in storm water and uh things of that   nature and and then also you know arpa might help  fund some of this okay we've we've basically mayor   we've basically obligated all but and and the  projects for ARP are going to start I want to   bring that up because it's important but we've all  been obligated about $400,000 in uh arpa money so   we'll probably we're going to definitely be having  to use that money towards some of these projects   and this could possibly be one of them but it's a  moving it's definitely a moving Target so therm's   going to be an interesting and uh major Venture so  I'm sorry I have one more quick question so does   is this does this meeting is this the one that  serves as identifying these things that are taking   longer where we might expect budget increases  in the cost of the profit completion these cips   show what staff knows to be what the costs are at  this time but then there's continuing work to be   done to see what we could do to close the gap but  to also anticipate to do the leg work to see when   we go out to see who could do the work what the  costs will be because the costs could be you know   significantly more at the time time when we go to  execute this and God knows what the bids will be   right I mean everybody's like that's a thing you  can't control with the people just bidding you   out bidding you out the butt honestly you know  now I left myself a loophole on this project   knowing that it's probably going to be a two-year  project uh if you read the description it does   say completed plans will include an engineer's  opinion a probable cost of construction which   will be reflected updated for the fiscal year  2526 CIP so if it is additional we will put   it in through the next fiscal year of what that  addition would be and of course like always I'll   go after grants and everything that I can okay  thank you so much I appreciate your educating me   on those and I wish we could rely on engineers's  opinion and probable cost even Veterans Memorial   Park just shocked us now I just was curious if  we kept up with that as a city on outstanding   projects and inflation doing periodic calculations  on what we might expect on projects that are   pending but I mean that's certainly something  I can do you know as we go through so but uh   this is something that we do want to see done um  the thur boulevard would look like West Central   Boulevard looks like essentially um we know that  people the residents are just going to love it   uh we still have plans for a our Council goal is  to have a a lighted intersection where THM meets   with Astronaut Boulevard they're doing a lot of  utility work out there right now um in preparation   for development there Dave are you allowed  to say what supposed to come in there at the intersection a Starbucks is it planned for right  there where they're doing all the utility work so   if we get a light right there and a Starbucks  I mean thurm Boulevard just would be perfect   there'll be a light at West Central and then a  light at yeah that's the ccil has already put that   in their resolution a couple times now and um TPO  is well aware of that didn't we talk about a light   at Columbia I think we talked about a crosswalk  there Don on TPO is that right yeah we did but um   they're putting a car wash in right right but uh  fdot said the traffic didn't support a light there   so our our goal is a lighted intersection at thurm  still and that'll help keep traffic slow on A1A um   if there's no yes ma'am I'm sorry I one question  and the cliffnote version John Cliff Notes um that   one uh 1,200 in Impact fees how is that I mean  how is it Des impact fees or impact fees how do   they designate it to one area I can help with that  uh go ahead or Dave da could do that sure when I   can help with that so in this case these are from  two Hotel projects when the hotel gets a building   permit um they have to pay the city certain  impact fees sewer and um Wastewater yeah but   then there's the county also collects an impact  free from those hotels for transportation it's   a it's an artifact from when the county had most  of the roads in the cities but they they haven't   let go of their ability to collect those impact  fees and it's not just our hotels it's anybody   that builds in the City of Cape canol has to  pay the County transportation impact fees they   can spend those fees those impact fees anywhere  in the district that they're generated So This   1.2 million could go anywhere in District Two  commissioner Goods Goodson's District anywhere   but what John is saying is that Dave Dicky has  gone to the county and said hey we want th those   two Hotel Transportation impact fees to come  back to the city they say why we say because   we've got thurm Boulevard we want to do and  it's going to cost 2 whatever million they say   okay that's a good idea you're generating them  there we'll go ahead and give them back to you   for that and that's done through an interlocal  agreement and then that and then that interlocal   agreement contains all those specifics to say  that you know where the impact fees are coming   from and how we justify it with thurm to get  those if we didn't have a project they would   have said we're going to keep it yeah okay thank  you um moving on um next one is Canaveral drainage   basin improvements I know we we focus a lot  of our efforts on the Center Street Basin and   we rightly are doing that but there are other  basins that are in need of improvements U this   one has been pushed back um and we're still not  ready to do it in this next fiscal year this is   actually going to be projected for the following  fiscal year 25 26 Tim that pretty much sums it up this is this is for the uh North End section of  the canal um over by Southgate mobile homes and   then onwards to the South up to uh uh Central  West Central um this is just to get the water   to flow better in that area uh to get it out if  we have heavy rains kind of like what we're doing   on Center Street right now uh we're just trying  to move water a lot faster out to the uh out to   the Ender of Lagoon so um this was just a a  project that me and Jeff had started on and   it was not a rush rush project uh so we I kind of  this year just kind of pushed it another year out   just to give you guys a heads up hey look here's  a project that we might be able to do next fiscal   year if you guys are on board um but that's with  that being said that's pretty much it and why aren   we not doing it this year um there are a lot of  projects going on um I I thought since um there   were so many that we had on our plate right now  or that I had on my plate that I'd be able this   wasn't an emergency item and there no flooding  or anything when it rains real when we get when   we get with those Gully washers sometimes the  ones at the end of um uh what's that road gosh   um Anchorage yes they they have some flooding in  the streets back there and and we help them out   as much as we can and we clear this for runoff as  much as we can and they're very grateful for our   system but that's the one that's impacted the  most and there's I think maybe 10 residential   units down there that are impacted by that as  opposed to like Center Street uh Basin which   has so many other residents affected potentially  by flooding have we done anything in that Lagoon   or whatever that is I've done a tremendous amount  of work I had the north side totally cut back and   dredged um to expand you know the capacity of it  to hold more water I don't think we've got any   Heavy Rain since I've did that uh we also went  onto the south side of Central and dug that out   and Life Storage what's that that's behind Life  Storage SpaceX that was recently done yeah but   closer to the central itself yeah we we um we had  a contractor come in and normally that's an area   where it likes to build up sand and what it does  is it takes up volume capacity that storm water   could could inhabit so uh we dug that out they  took it hauled it off um and of course um I I   have cut a little bit more debris off the back  of Life Storage and stuff just so we that was   going to be in my next uh phase of the canal  because so far I've done North and then I've   maintained part of the South but my next main  phase of the South is to go ahead and dredge   it all the way around the corner um to up to our  our actual RightWay line but it hasn't been tested   yet no I'm excited because I you know we took a  lot of we took a lot of uh sand out of there we   took a lot of debris and stuff and um in the  long run I've I've seen it dramatically help   with flow you know and it getting it out a lot  faster so the pump station you know they're going   to rerun I I believe tetr is doing the study  and they're going to rerun their numbers after   they see some uh future flows uh we have a title  gauge there too as well at that area on the head   wall um so we're going to run some more numbers  to see what actually is needed um they kind of   gave us three scenarios of what we could do three  projects but I wasn't comfortable with the amounts   they were saying and I said I think we can do  this a lot cheaper and I think that you guys   need to run the numbers again so I'm looking  out for the city and how much we pay on this so Council any other questions on this one  thank you mayor um moving on to the next one   Mickey this is your neighborhood in Harbor  Heights um there's a an old storm water pipe   that's been rusting for 60 years and it's the  last thing to be replaced there Tim you want   to talk about that yeah that's uh pretty much I  think all the pipes have been replaced in Harbor   Heights uh it's the one right on there on the  corner as you can see where the car is all the   way out to the main um I'm not sure exactly  the size I should have put the size on here   uh but that that last uh corrugated aluminum  pipe probably needs to be changed out to a concrete and that should finish up Harbor Heights yeah I believe so yeah it has to be with that well I guess nowhere well we we've had pipes  actually replaced since then too   the the green portion will be replaced I'm  ready to get started on these projects like   to go back we can tell you why that  happened for years I can't speak to that so Tim when this one when this rusted  metal pipe is replaced everything will be RCP   reinforced concrete pipe out there now corrected  yeah correct out there we know Citywide how we're   doing I'm sure there's metal in other places yeah  I got the gis was just finished this year that'll   help us and it tells you what each pipe's made  out of how big it is oh it's it's a beautiful   age and yeah it will tell you if it needs to be  replaced as you can see in this picture that's   on the uh slide yes um you see how some pipes  are green yes and then there's other yellow   pipes yellow means that they're nearing their  end of life so they probably should be changed   down out green means they're in good condition  so as you can see that main right there is is   yellow so if I go to the gis coordinates on the  map itself and click on it it'll give me a brief   explanation of you know how some pictures of the  pipe what condition it's in and so on so forth   so I'll be able to tell hey you know we might  want to look at that pipe a couple of years so   green is new new pipe Green's just saying it's in  good condition okay new condition and that is now   available and done ready for you to utilize yes  that's great thank you for that update that was   a CIP project in itself that I think you updated  on and is that um and and so this is one of the   older pipes but when you said that will make  all of them out there are you talking about   on Coral and Harbor Drive only all of Harbor  Heights in the entire subdivision yeah Cain   and sorry to leave Cain off there okay that's  great thank you and mayor if there's no other   questions on that one uh we have a more generic  uh catchall of roadway repair and replacement is   the next one Tim talked about what you want to  do over the next three years with this all right   so when I was in infrastructure maintenance uh  I had a uh continual replacement of crossovers   to the beach ends oh the roadway replacement  what's that are you on roadway yeah I'm just   using that as an example okay um Todd had brought  to me and Dave Dicky and said what what if we had   something along the lines for roads to do the  same thing so this is where I got it from and   I'm like that's a great idea because right now  we're concentrating on presidential roads but   we're not concentrating on all the other roads  throughout the city that are dilapidated so with   this this is just a um this isn't a full removal  and replacement as in going down and doing all the   underground utilities this is just a simple Mill  and resurface um so as as it says in here um uh   this it's going to include any curbing that needs  to be removed and and replaced that are not within   our presidential streets um so the first one that  I had put down on here was Longo Road um this was   on a CIP last year it was pushed forward to this  year um and this is just to Mill and resurface   and redo any damage curbing that's done um and as  you can see in the future Cherry down Lane which   which I believe we own now uh would be the next  road that we would Mill and resurface and then   Harbor Heights possibly Mill and res surface for  the next uh fiscal year 26 27 now as we find more   roads that are non-presidential we'll put them  on this list um and then if you guys agree with   getting them repaired and replaced uh we'll go  ahead and get them done um if they're pushed uh   if they're voted to be pushed out then or you know  moved around that's okay too I have a question on   the Long Point Road does this include any of the  sale at the end of the street I would have that   included into the project so when they would start  at the A1A they would go down all the way to that   dead end part and I would have them clean out that  sale clean out the gutters repour the gutters if   needed if they need to be repaired and bring bring  that back up to its original is there is there any   way to prevent debris from filling that back in um  well I can get an engineer to give me some options   um I know that storm water they have some neat  to I like to call them toys because they're just   cool things to keep debris out of areas but um I  could see if they have any uh any new toys that   I can Implement into the end of the road I think  a lot of the issu down there which I've heard is   that there's debris being blown into that area yes  and that's filling it up and what's going to end   up happening is years and years of people just  getting rid of their stuff down there it's not   going to even act as a a reservoir for storm water  anymore it's just going to flood so exactly yeah   I I know you and I have been out there several  times and yes walked that and it's but I would   like to include that uh into the scope of work  and and on Long Point I actually also wanted   to include um work with Molly and parks and wck  because I know she's redoing Patriots Park um and   we discussed if we're going to go ahead and pave  repave this road in Mill and resurface it um what   are the what are the uh odds of us being able to  get some parking areas over at Patriots park right   there at the entryway next to the lift station so  we're also looking at that in this Long Point is   strictly east or west of A1A not the little  strip of Long Point where the VFW is on the   east side of A1A correct correct this is from A1A  to dead end thank you Tim I I just want to stress   that we do look for um anything like a gravity  line that might need to be replaced like a like   in Harbor Heights you know oh sure absolutely we  don't want to have to cut up a new road because   we didn't do this first right yeah right yeah if  they if they start finding things that's normally   when change orders come in if they start finding  things or if they know something's really old in   the ground uh we'll either add it to the CIP add  it to the you know the um the project and if it   ends up coming a little bit higher than what we  anticipated because of that major repair that   needs to be done or minor repair I we'll just do  a small change order and get that done might as   well while you have the road open right amen yes  I hate cutting up a brand new Road I know breaks   my heart anything else on this one mayor not  for me Council good thank you okay that's it   Tim thank you very much uh next up is community  Economic Development um Dave who do you want   to put on the hot seat z z got I we can proceed  this is Workshop I just need to step out for two   minutes I'll come right back that's okay or does  anyone else need to if so we could take a quick   five quick five minute break it's that okay sure  223 we'll try to be back before 2:30 okay sorry Zach e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right everybody it is 233 p.m. I call  the meeting back to order we are at our city   council CIP Workshop meeting took a brief recess  there uh in between presentations of the CIP our   city manager I think was about to roll into the  community and economic development thank you very   much mayor yes sir and we'll start with Zach  Zach if you want to start with your first one   which is The Bard County Sheriff's Office Cape  canaval Precinct rooftop solar array and this   is an update yeah I'm going to hand this over to  Commander kek just kidding that was good that was   good good so Council uh this is an update uh this  is uh not new this was taken to council last year   this is basically to uh continue our efforts to  install rooftop solar installations at critical   City facilities the next which being identified  was the barar keny sheriff's office building   which the city does own but is used byard County  uh Sheriff's Office uh this project and some of   the ones you're going to see on subsequent slides  are part of a grant initiative actually um after   hurricanes Ian and Nicole uh thema through their  Hazard mitigation grant program allotted money   to each uh State and then the states down  to the counties RAR County got upwards of   $5 million for Hurricane Ian and about the  same for Hurricane Nicole the city is a part   of the local uh mitigation strategy committee  which is uh done through our County Emergency   Operation Center it's a committee comprised  of local First Responders and City staff that   review projects that are submitted for this PO of  money and select whether or not they should move   forward this project was selected to move forward  uh this particular Grant was looking for projects   that can boost uh energy resilience we consider  this a two-phase project one day this uh will be   when completed the largest rooftop City solar  array in the city at 53 kws on the east south   and west sides of the building perfect building  to do solar on great orientation good roof um   and it will be uh built to be uh battery ready  as well uh to tie into the building's existing   diesel generator to uh accentuate that diesel  generator's operations and prolong off-grid   capabilities if necessary we also get a lot of  cost savings out of this we estimate upwards   of $370,000 over the 25 year lifespan of the  system uh with the uh first year having over,   in savings and also a 99% reduction in carbon  emissions for this particular facility we have   not heard yet back from the state we are just  waiting on uh them to hopefully award us on a 7525 basis thank you do you want to pause there  and if there are any questions is like we   were doing like is that you can ask any  questions if you have and you finished   yeah for for now um Council any questions  on the CSO rooftop solar array for the precinct yeah May ptim council member Jack I  have a question okay on this particular item   as and also with the Sellar array on the multigen  facility and or C5 do we have solar panels set up   in inventory in in case of breakage from hail  or wind or anything like that correct yes okay   so they're under a 25 year warranty okay but  do we keep spares we don't but the company   has them on available and the the particular  company that we utilize is based in mland oh   okay very good that's good to know thank you  um so they keep spare yeah they're all it's a   you know it's a modular infrastructure system  so if any one panel function or break it could   be easily popped out and put into place in  relatively short amount of time right okay   and then the other thing is how did we calculate  you're going to love me right Zach you know my   questions um how did we calculate the utility  savings as well as the total estimated uh of   378,000 over the 25y year LIF plan how did how  did we come up with that figure so we sent in   about five years worth of utility data for  the building to come up with that and then   that cost also included um a estimation on  FPL rate increases 3.5% on annual basis um   that was thrown in there um yeah pretty much  so it's just using real world data that we've   already experienced on the utility figure  and then it's calculated against how much   the GD the solar panels would offset on their  production so it's important to note that they   would be in the current configuration the system  would be constructed it would be sending electri   back to fpl's grid to offset it would not be  used to directly power the facility uh and then   that offset is where you see the savings occur  over time okay so and that's important so I'm   going to repeat that make sure I understood so  what we're doing is collecting the solar power   and and it's being sold back to fpl for the  reduction on our actual electric bill correct okay now that leads me to one more question  and then I'll leave you alone possibly for   5 seconds um so what would it take for that to  be powering our own battery um Center where we   could be powering our own building using our  solar versus getting a reduction from FPL so   that would require the installation of a battery  energy storage system that's not scoped for this   particular project uh but we did intend it to be  built to be battery ready as it's called where   it could be upgraded um there is space for this  to happen if we wanted and that is a very large   solar system that would definitely Supply a lot of  power for backup capabilities if needed and like I   said the cool thing about this is that we would  be using the best of both worlds of diesel and   Battery to accentuate the life of the generator  that's already there which could probably go for   three or four days fully fueled um but God forbid  ships hits a bridge uh you know power goes out   uh and we can't get fuel onto the island for some  reason the batteries would kick in during the day   supplementing power from the rooftop solar rate  and would be power in the building they would die   generator kicks in keeps it going overnight the  cycle continues but currently with what this is   projected for we would not have that capability  okay and see to me it's very important that well   just for Council I'm really focused on continuity  of government and emergency disaster processes so   if we're looking at doing this we need to look  at continuing power for emergencies hurricanes   that kind of thing um and consider that because  if FPL goes down and we're still down what has   that done for us and after you run out of diesel  you've run out of diesel so I would definitely   consider it if you wanted to look at it in the  broad spectrum this is a this would be phase one   of a two-phase energy backup project could we um  scope out the storage piece for the next fiscal   year and put that into this next CIP we absolutely  could and for me emergency I I was I'm certified   in disaster recovery for utilities and so for  me looking at making sure and ensuring that our   emergency services are up in case of the worst  we saw the worst of worst with Hurrican in and   Fort Meyers if we have to ensure whatever if we're  looking at projects like this it's important to me   I don't know about the rest of the council but I  think that it behooves us to look at making sure   that we are up if we had extended outages since  we're on a barrier all I completely agree I can't   change it in the scope of the GR already been  submitted but I definitely think uh should we   see should we see approval that would be the next  step well and knowing that we can do that in two   phases and that we it would not be included in  the first phase just makes us um better aware as   a council for looking at what we may want to do  going forward corre I think it's a great idea to   put in the storage piece in the following fiscal  year thank you for that I have quick question   Zach would that not just be a uh replication of  im10 pretty much okay we might be able to make it   bigger depending on the exact size and the system  modularity those systems are getting more advanced   all the time um the energy sector has really put  a lot of R&D into that U the system that we saw   council member was that for technology probably  be a little bit bigger than that um but something   of a similar vein that they that they're using on  their Alumni Center and following up on thank you   thank you councilman Willis I just found that I am  10 from from me saying that so we've got the we've   got it in um budgeted in capital Improvement  for the C5 but we don't have it budgeted for   our Emergency Services right so do you want to Che  that's a different side Che I think we can kind of   talk about them together if that's okay oh 100%  okay so um yes what you see on the uh oh that's   actually the next slide yep yeah thank you perfect  so this project uh is also a grant funded project   if we receive it uh through the same funding  cycle of Hazard mitigation from FMA this was   done for the uh uh Community Center um part of the  Grant application that the the budgeting office   that that goes that looks after hm hmgp funding is  looking for facility improvements that can handle   critical facilities and also facilities that can  outwardly help residents after a disaster that   was the thinking behind the community center and  also its ongoing transition to become an overall   resilience Hub should something ever happen  here post storm for people that remained or   people that are coming back and need assistance  uh the community center can be used as a space   uh where we could assist with that with other  departments like any Sheriff's Office can have   a fire rescue right now the community center does  not have a backup system of any kind diesel or   battery um space is relatively limited to uh  have a traditional diesel system of the size   that would be needed for a building like that  so the energy storage system via the batteries   was much more effective in terms of its small  footprint modularity uh with this particular   project we'd be looking at in conjunction with  the existing rooftop solar array about a 4 Hour   uh usage time um during the day uh to utilize for  everything but pretty much the agac we could bring   in Mobile smaller HVAC units uh cooking UT cooking  supplies uh Communications things like that um and   then this would also be funded on a 75% 25% basis  should we be awarded which we hope to hear back   this this year if we didn't have water breaching  the dams that we've just ordered or the doors we   just ordered all of that could happen yeah okay  um so we're looking the building was built to   be solar ready which is great so a lot of the  conduit been pre-laid there's space in utility   room there's also consideration to perhaps put  them on the second floor there's a closet directly   above the utility room building the closet space  to be fireproof up to appropriate code to handle   this and um we keep uh you know some flooding  inance I will say though um you know I'm not   sure exactly which product we will go to but  Tesla does have one of the best as you see on   the screen and their most recent power wall uh  was built to be submerged in operation which is   fantastic um knowing that these could be used in  a space that could be vulnerable to something like   flooding so they really improved the technology  U but yes that is the gist of this project so   both of them are hmgp Grant Reliant at this point  and when do we expect to hear something on those   hopefully this the F year this F year it is the  state so and I'll leave it at that but but these   were approved by Bard County hmgp yes to the LMS  committee they're just wait Bard county is waiting   for the money yeah okay thank you Zach I I got a  question I got a question as far as the funding   goes so like council member Jackson was asking so  if you needed to get another uh storage system or   whatever is I mean is the pot the pot inless in  the Grant in the grants that could fund these   with the 7525 whatever you can go to the well  again and see that application that application   cycle is ended that application has closed okay  so the city would have to fund what council member   unless there's unless another Grant opens up and  that's what Zach is saying he'd be looking for all   right and Mike the reason I'm bringing it up is if  that doesn't happen and not to sound like a broken   record but it's important that we use these arpa  funds that if we delved into more of these that   I would suggest this is a viable thing to use for  arpa funds that are remaining okay if we can't get   a grant even if we have to pay the 25% that's  remaining we don't impact the general fund and   we use the arpa money because it is it's there I  think that's a good idea so as we scop the storage   piece for 25 26 we had we tag it to arpa Zac while  we're trying to get grants yes and the reason I'm   bringing it up is because time is we got time but  time is is moving along and we I want to use every   penny of these arpa funds if free it's free money  that's we've already started investigating a new   National Science Foundation Grant with Florida  Institute of Technology specific to resilience   Hub development uh similar to the one that we just  completed with the rain Garden pafic Innovation   Challenge that they released this one is looking  also for resilience enhancements so this is that   would be a great fallback Grant uh to do we have  a track record of success with NSF funding one   for one so nice work thank you back I have one  question yes you said that the batteries would be   good for four hours a day yes they full charge so  how many days would that like if we were that's a   good question so the solar array at the roof would  continue to feed them and recharge them as needed   during the day post hurricane um it's usually  actually very sunny so we can keep it going for   quite a while um and the rooftop solar rays they  are always speced to withstand wind speeds of 165   miles hour that is what they've been engineered to  handle so with these we would be able to open that   facility God forbid we should have a bad storm  four hours a day for however many days it takes   people to get back in their homes and yes we would  never do it before we do not want to encourage   people to stay on correct we should never be there  should never be a Shel there are no shelters on   the island during a storm for safety reasons after  yes this would be the rallying point for residents   where they could experience some type of relief  as they're trying to assess their own personal situations Zach I got a couple of questions yeah   the 110,000 cities portion  is 25% of that or is the 110,000 25% of the total like is it  440,000 the total budget is 110,000   so we only pay oh no I'm sorry to say  out of the general fund but where was   I reading yeah the I'm down there  at the bottom of the slide there $110,000 total total so be 35,000 us 75,000  has a mitigation and they provide those funds   up front or do we have to spend it and they  reimburse sort of I don't know off hand but   we have this money budgeted in case that's  required this in the budget 110,000 with the   hope of getting a grant so this council's  really looking at this as hey 110 cross   your fingers 75% that's a lot uh comes  back do you know the size of this battery yes in in terms of kilowatt hours and and then KW  yes hold please 68.4 kilowatt hours 68 so 68,0 400   I would think kilowatt hours yes so 68.4 and the  does it say what the kilowat is this just I do not   have that like the it's um okay we did a overw  but we could get more specifics to drill down   further do you know the brand of that battery no  just we kept it open generally that amount of that   capacity of storage would provide four hours of  runtime for the C5 without AC running right so in   non-air condition that load that's what it sized  the hearing council member Jackson and I think   overall I think that is really what were that's  the direct benefit that we understand and I think   would help the community understand and so for if  the sheriff's department if we were to have grid   failure and in a disaster recovery I think the  question we want to think about so that you can   do it you know the best job you can is how many  days would we want our perard County Sheriff's   Office to operate in the event there there was no  power so in in terms of hours I would think more   in terms of days for them not hours and think um  this would be a larger investment but paired with   the diesel like you said um and their capabilities  and their needs and certainly what bcso is is   involved in this um I think that's a really good  goal is say hey we we're working and that might   take phases but in this year next year we we we  invested in at least one day of you know no grid   dependency is completely relying on it um and then  you know by adding on batteries over time we we   might need to add more days but at least starting  in those terms because you know we'll kind of get   lost up in the battery sizes and some of them are  more efficient than others but I know that most   you like 10year warranties which are really um  good and the space for it um I think is important   but th those are all ideas that I support to and  and being able to um move on that even sooner than   next year in my opinion because I know that right  now there there are a lot of Grants and funds and   those step down over time at the federal level as  we know some of them um or there's just a limited   amount of funds and all the public institutions  across the country are competing for that now   it's a lot of money but eventually it will be  all utilized and so um thank you and we've had   um experience with our storms here where certain  spots within the city were out for three days or   a week so I think looking at outages from past  storms to determine where we're vulnerable if   if bcso and our fire department locations are  vulnerable so that we can have real empirical   data instead of analyzation of that would be good  because we want to be able to make sure that these   guys are up and running um I know that we also  partner with the port on the the fire department   and emergency response and can possibly look  at that as alternatives for locations if we had   outages but I think looking at actual storm data  would be a great thing to ensure that we're doing   something that it is Meaningful and I do like  the C5 I mean it's centrally located it provides   a larger space that even our First Responders  might be able to utilize as we've said use the   um the the uh little Le field is I was at the live  training session yesterday that they had and we   were in discussions about you know what what the  metac areas that you use in the city the little   Le field is one of the designated medac areas  where they would come in and land a helicopter   because it's behind a secure fence line so that's  important to know I hadn't previously known that   um so having that be a distribution point to  where even our First Responders could utilize   the facility would be like you said important  and under serious disaster you know help first   hospital moving our nearest facility is there  a path that the city could look into or pursue   about what it would take to convert the C5 into uh  a facility where doctors are fire Medics Sheriff   can utilize to provide a so we're not actually  having to fly them out we can treat them right   there that that would space that would absolutely  be part of the development so might open up more   to aifi facility so with the resilience concept  it's really in two different buckets you have   your infrastructure bucket because without that  you can't really do much programming inside of   it the building can't keep itself going during uh  calamities then you have the programming side of   it so that's where you start getting the partners  involved our County Emergency Operations can fire   rescue bcso and we start developing internal  programs and policies and procedures to say during   this specific this happens with the facility  during that specific scenario this happens   with the facility that has yet to be developed and  that as as we're going along that is what we'll be   doing so multi-gen was something we always used  to talking about multi-use now exactly and we   want to definitely potentially based on if Council  comes to that decision we'd want to look at what   type of uh equipment needs to be there for bcso to  provide emergency dispatch things that that nature   if that's going to be their backup location 4  hours in that case is not going to help us so   we'd have to look at expansion of that to go fully  into it if we're looking at a phased approach yeah   the great thing about battery technologies is  a very mod absolutely they can be added to with   relative ease as long as there's space thank you  I think all that was around the justification you   know which is an important part of of this and so  the beginning of I think hopefully some more thank   you thank you next please next one I will hand it  over to my colleague Kyle Harris this this one is   the presidential streets and we've been looking  forward to this one this is a multifaceted Beast   of a project that's been a couple years in the  making now and Kyle's getting ready to tell us   about the April update that council could expect  at the council meeting Kyle yes so this is just   a little break from Zach you'll hear more from  him soon don't worry um so yes uh this is some   some good timing uh the presidential streets  master plan um there will be a presentation at   the April council meeting by kimley horn kind of  tying together um the presidential streets master   plan both phases one and two um the Civic Hub  storm water feasibility study and the CER Street   Basin study just kind of tying together these  different projects that we've looked at over   the years and um give us a good a good foundation  to uh start moving forward for this fiscal year to   have a street that we're going to start serving  Outreach to the citizens on that street um and   then so so we've budgeted to kind of do that again  next year for for a subsequent street but also get   into the actual construction and and you know get  underground and look at everything so um yeah it's   a obviously a huge project that has many many  moving Parts um but we uh going to be funding   it through the CRA uh for the most part there's  a small portion that's outside of the CRA um at   the beach ends but this should be founded by the  CRA and then uh we also still have Grant Services   through kimley horn um we've been speaking with  them actually this week and they are helping us   uh secure some some grants so um we'll get some  money that way a question um maybe a question for   Dave on this we know that the CRA can only fund  the portion of the presidential streets that's   in the CRA and that ends at Ridgewood Avenue so  anything east of actually anything Ridgewood and   East cannot be CRA dollars could that qualify  for transportation impact fees from Bard County   Dave do you know that you on the spot I just  want to say thank you for that question yeah I appreciate I See's what I mean that's sort  of where the presidential streets originated   really started on the east side of Ridgewood  yeah and then we in this way for the CR but um what we have had to do in the past is we've  had to go to the county with a really pretty   detailed scope on how we're going to spend these  Transportation dollars that we're getting back and   they've been very uh thorough in the research of  of what we're doing with these dollars we as as   the council knows spending these mostly on Street  skate projects or complete Street projects um I   think if we can fashion an argument that these  are complete Street projects um we may be able   to uh at least go to the C go to the county and  ask because when it comes to complete streets   projects we've got thurm we've got thurm we've  got West Central between A1A and and Atlantic   and that's it right there's no other ones we're  planning right now so I'd like us to keep an   eye on on that because we know these presidential  streets are going to be more than a decade working   on them just keep an eye on that yeah I think the  components are there for a street for a complete   Street project on our beach um so yeah I think  that's a very creative thought I might I'll talk   to Todd about this but maybe I'll reach out to  my count that just get a take a temperature on   what the staff person at least thinks about that  yeah we can discuss because when when the council   Mak some decisions after hearing from kimley  horn on sequencing of presidential streets and   we have a our I'm going to call it our game plan  laid out for the next many years that plan going   to the county taking that plan to the county  saying this is how much money we're going to   need over so many years we'd like to continually  plug Transportation impact fees into this as they   come in maybe structure an agreement around that  yeah as you said earlier I mean the hotels are are   one pot of money you indicated also any project  are generating those that pot of money or filling   that pot of money they're not as big but uh over  time I mean every bit every little bit helps it's   about $2,000 for a single family home for County  transportation Ines um so you know every little   bit helps so that's a good ideaay on top of so  Dave I I think your first word there is the key   scope right I mean if we could do thurm and  they could give us 1.2 million for a project   that might be let me just say three million and  now we're going to do a presidential seat that's   three million well can they give us those impact  fees or whatever 800,000 for that part that's the   Ridgewood side on the East I mean maybe maybe  it could be justified we've got to we've got   indicated earlier we've got two Hotel projects  that we haven't really nailed down yet on how   we're going to spend those those impact 800,000  yeah so we do have to go back to the county and   ask them to reallocate those dollars back to the  city so that could potentially be our opportunity   to funnel them into the presidential streets yeah  and let's let's not lose sight of the fact that   uh our CRA board tasks the business and economic  development board to also weigh in on funding the   presidential streets we want to get their thoughts  on this as well because they might have some other   creative ideas when's that meeting scheduled for  you know next Thursday week tonight okay so that   that works out nicely for the January count I'm  sorry April council meeting we're going to have   our heads full of information about presidential  streets after the April council meeting it sounds   like council member Willis did you uh yeah I  want to throw a wrench in this um because uh   several months ago we discussed impact fees as  it relates to to A1A and possible pedestrian   Crossings oh that's true so I don't want to lose  sight of that either so because U I met with fdot   Lexi Miller and I and the TPO met with uh fdot at  the facility in Coco yesterday and they are coming   around um that's basically all I can say right now  but uh if we are willing to put a little more skin   in the game we might get a few things so that's  definitely something to keep in mind thank you sir any other comments on this particular project  uh the uh update from kimley horn will also   include the results of the oneway analysis yes  that's right okay the update from Kim and Horn   will also tell us what streets they're talking  about starting with or is it yeah so they'll   they'll present what what their recommendation is  and then Council can discuss what they would like   to do they're they're definitely looking at it  from a triage basis I'm I'm certain of that okay   thank you yes thank you all right anything else  on presidential streets mayor not at this time no   thank you all right moving on to Banana River Park  Shoreline I think this is Zach okay so for the   last few years we've been experiencing some pretty  significant erosion events on our shorelines   where our uh uh our city owned shorelines at  Banana River Park and man Sanctuary Park um we   experienced erosion after Hurricane Matthew Ian um  Irma so uh we've been thrown around this project   for quite a number of years now just internally  and this is the first time we're actually going to   try and bring it to council to what you want to do  uh anticipated cost is 100,000 to the city um this   would be specifically for a stline stabilization  and enhancement project at Banana River Park um   probably in the area that you see in the photo  the upper photo there where there's little to   no vegetation because you can see where there is  vegetation the shoreline is much further out and   where there is not we're experiencing consistent  Shoreline collapse that is slowly encroaching back   towards that fence um this would uh probably  be in collaboration with several local part   including the bardu and the Indian Lagoon National  estoy program part of a living shine design is   twofold it would be to stabilize the shoreline and  recruit sediment so that the shoreline actually   gets extended further out into the Lagoon instead  of being pushed back and also for Habitat quality   improvement uh the Banana River Lagoon has been  one of the hardest hit areas of the overall Indian   River Lagoon system in terms of algae blooms and  species die offs and seagrass die offs um we don't   know exactly what the project final design will  look like it would probably involve some type of   green infrastructure some type of uh Shoreline  um or inwater devices that would mitigate wave   energy before it hits the shoreline um that would  also accentuate the local habitat by providing   places for recruitment of species uh including  SE grafts which there is little to none in this   area um if this was to work out we would consider  moving the project or expanding the further down   the shoreline uh and also because once you get  into the water you're really in state land and   you have to work with the state and the St John's  River Water Management District to get this type   of project permitted we could begin to go out and  protect other areas of the city um because uh a   lot of our flooding flood projections actually  show that some of the um uh worst flooding that   we could experience in a major storm event is  on the Lagoon side and not the ocean side which   sounds a in it but this is uh what we've seen so  that's basically what that project is we have any   questions $75,000 in Grants and do you see that  where do you see that sourced from Zach that   could be a number of things I honestly don't know  yet um we proposed 100,000 for the city just in   case we got nothing pretty confident that there  are grants out there to for efficient Wildlife   uh IRL NEP theard Zoo um John uh there's usually  a lot of stuff for this type of um of uh project   as well with the uh aquarium coming they will be  experiencing similar issues that we do uh if they   don't enhance their Shoreline so I imagine there  would be mutual interest and extending protection   down the shoreline those few thousand feet to our  city um because this is the type of project too   where if you do it and some areas are unprotected  over time could other areas so it's definitely   something we want to broaden as we move forward  thank you my question is the the cost is B is it   says for a living Shoreline is this for the pl  the plants the trees or is that labor and would   the any sediment actual it would be for plants it  would be for wave attenuation devices it would be   for uh lers labor construction it would be it  would be a fairly small scale project probably   few dozen feet in length enough to cover that area  that you see in that upper picture maybe a little   more depending on the exact type of system that  we've scoped out um so the goal is to close that   gap between roughly through those two trees in the  upper picture correct but it's also establishing a   methodology that we are are going to hopefully be  proving out that could be rubber stamped at every   copy copy and pasted copy pacing it down the  shoreline man Sanctuary Park is another great   place to do this where there's a boardwalk that's  in close proximity to the Shoreline uh and some   areas that has minimal vegetative protection and  then some private properties might also emulate   what we're doing based on our lessons learned  exactly my final question is if there is any uh   data on what we've lost um or is it just visual  observations but maybe in between the meeting   being able to see that I've aerial photography  come to my house no I'm serious if you want to see   erosion what you come to PDR Zach I think we could  easily get um barar County property appraiser   aerial historical photographs to prove what the  mayor's asking let I'm not asking to prove I'm   asking to see what was the rate of erosion  because that's the if this is just covering   a small segment I know I've been out there enough  to see all that got washed out the little ramp I   remember having to redo that um but yeah what is  the rate and then what does this investment do for   us as far as extending the life of that Shoreline  the cost of doing nothing is at the rate it eroded   just say it was one foot a year for easy math uh  you know we know that not making this investment   in three years we theoretically would lose three  feet of Shoreline and so by putting this money   in we hold three feet for do we add two do we  decrease the loss and if so for for roughly how   long because I agree that's a small section  if there's erosion happening elsewhere it be   something I think we all want to look at there is  um we saw project at the Marine Resources Council   Lagoon house in Palm Bay excellent place highly  recommend um they have a a living shine design   where they put in basically these what they're  called Sills which are these Rocky encroachments   they that mangroves are put into the rocky Sills  break up the wave energy the mangroves clean up   the water and sediment is recruited behind them  and sure enough they had 10 to 15 ft of extra   stline built back all with nature doing its own  thing once it was a chance and then they planted   on that new recruited sediment to sh up that that  shine and build it into a very thick mat of roots   and vegetation so it it worked very well and it  worked in as little as two years that's great yeah   so that's a good case study where's that down in  pal South perard yes uh in Palm Bay at the Marine   Resources Council Lagoon house oh I know where  that okay beautiful trail system you can walk   down in the water and see it and then you can see  where they stopped it and there's nothing it's at   least 10 to 15 feet back it's pretty striky thank  you any other questions for me anything else well   I I did see U Coco Beach had done something  along the Banana River as well along one of   their parks and uh McNab yeah McNab Park and it  had arrested some of the erosion so but it was   not a large scale project and there's there's  a number of associations along the riverfront   who are looking to combine efforts to seek some  grants as well so we may several of them have been   in touch in contact with me so we may be trying  to uh find ways that we can do that as well I'm   also pleased to say that in uh the yard back at  Public Works we have three artificial waths that   were donated to us that were 3D printed with  concrete that are that would probably find a   home in this proposed project to test how they do  and see what they do so look like cabbage re very   cool that is cool I have two questions yes so  I I know basically where this is up so I have   one question is and this is not addressing the  shoreline at the water department that's a great   thing to bring up so let's talk about that real  quick cuz that's yes Park water treatment plant   water treatment plant s um currently the city is  going through a uh very important design study   with the US Army Corps of Engineers we were I  I'll call it a grant it's not really a grant   but for the sake of Simplicity it's essentially  a grant that the city was awarded to work with   the Army Corps of Engineers through their section  14 emergency stream Bank restoration program this   is a program designed to protect critical utility  assets from erosion and we qualified for that and   with that we get $100,000 of federal funding that  the Army Corps will use to do a design study and   Analysis of the treatment PL Shoreline which they  started on February 16th of this year and it lasts   exactly for one year part of the program would be  moving into a phase two uh that would actually see   infrastructure implementation to enact what the  design study says should be done that tapped at   A10 million budget that is split 6535 65 Federal  35 City doesn't have to go up to 10 million that's   just a cap the program ends at so that is a  super critical project that is ongoing right   now we're working with the Army Corps to get Trine  measurements do surveys we've done a lot of drone   flights with M Riddle University to get uh current  photographs and to monitor the erosion out there   um so we uh you know a little $100,000 living  shine project at the treatment plant won't do much   good so we brought out the big guns and we brought  in the Army cor Engineers um to see what we can do   out there so that design study will be brought  back to council once they're complet for your   review okay and it start it started in February  correct 16th so 2025 February 16th it should be   or sooner that's just when it would uh by the  programs statues has to end um and you would be   that because there's no obligation to actually  move forward into the stage two infrastructure   implementation it would be with council's blessing  that we would um depending on what they do and I'm   pleased to say too because traditionally the Army  Corps has been very seaw wall seaw wall we are   exploring a hybrid design that would ensure some  type of green gray infrastructure to ensure that   erosion is stopped or reversed um because there  are Sexes the treatment plant that are relatively   close to the Lagoon so that's not something we  want to wash away and then my second question   probably is more for Mr Dicky because that is in  regards to any existing property on the um Banana   River that may want to do building and what they  can do to their yards what they're allowed to do   to their yards so um I know that many people that  build or in a lot of places within our city have   been coming in and knocking down older older homes  and wanting to rebuild and when you're on that   side and you take out all of the plants that are  along the shoreline you are more Su you know susp   suceptible to erosion so have we done anything  to prevent that since we're seeing erosion in   certain spots along the river or is there um or  has that already been addressed that kind of thing I mean we have some I'll call them Legacy  ordinances C's had around for a while and   there setbacks from high water lines uh would  include the river so so we have some stuff in   place that people can't go right down into and  build and alter and modify modify these areas   um so but could we do more yeah I think we we  certainly could um obviously we start dealing   with property rights at that point and that's  kind of a you know it's a sensitive issue um   but I think that's you know we I'm thinking about  that uh what's the name of that subdivision right   there on thurm it's a beautiful little subdivision  right there Angel's aisle manay manay the last one   on yes yeah if you've ever driven back in there  we've got five or six maybe 10 homes along that   Canal right back there and we've worked pretty  with folks most of them they wanted to put pools   in and so we've dealt very closely with them on  on what they can and can't do with within so many   feet of the high water line so yeah we we've  got we've got some standards in place where we   can address that um also if somebody wants to get  down in there and alter some of those areas those   I'll call them jurisdictional areas of either St  John's or Army Corps whoever um there's obviously   those agencies have their own permitting process  above and beyond what the city has um so I'm not   familiar with any um um how can I phrase it uh  permanent damage or real serious negative stuff   going on with with Redevelopment activities but  so I I think we're okay but we we certainly can   take a look at Dave I a question and I think  this is a great line of questioning yeah city   council recently held a joint meeting with  the pnz and the East Central Florida Regional   planning Council about strengthening our codes  for resilience and one of the things that that   was focused on was at the time of Redevelopment  certain codes come in could this find a place   in that effort the shorelines the specifically  the Banana River Lagoon shorelines as far as a   code that would be addressed it yeah I mean we we  can't there's no planning there's no legal term   Anthony can no Pine on it better it's called  rational Nexus there has to be some rational   reason or purpose for your ordinances um you  just can't willy-nilly come up with things just   because you want it so there has to be some some  purpose for these things but um yeah I think as   far as our resiliency standards and and goals  and aspirations go we can certainly uh take a   look at that yeah I think we could work very  closely with the regional planning Council   um they deal they do a lot of this work around  the around the central part of Florida a lot of   community Co Coastal Community so yeah we could  certainly do that if that would be the the wish   and the desire of the counc well and I'm a fairly  Common Sense type of person but if we're looking   at restoring this much of it while some over here  it's being destroyed what are we doing why are we   even doing that why are we even addressing it  it needs to be more of a coordinated um effort   that ensures that our entire you know water line  there is being addressed we didn't take Florida   and do a coastal zoning line on the outside you  know where the Atlantic is and stop at one city   and say you do whatever you want you know we  didn't we took a overall approach to that and   so it doesn't make sense to be restoring a small  section like this to me if we're allowing things   that cause degradation in other areas yeah if  if if the council remembers that gentleman from   UF who was here at the workshop one of the things  that I think it was a big part of the conversation   was what can the city do for our own properties  and what can we ask private property owners to   do so that's kind of what I think we're talking  about here is kind of a two two approach yeah   we certainly can certainly can do something then  there's the aquarium there's the aquar Y yeah and   that's they're going to that's going to be that's  going to be something else I will say real quick   too about this particular project we have it set  within pretty firm boundaries of the park so I'm   confident that it wouldn't exacerbate any issues  surrounding it um so uh and then I was also going   to say uh for residents that do live on the Lagoon  we do have the adopted Mangrove program residents   can get mangroves from the city about two three  years old red mangroves that they can plant as   they please um on their shorelines if they feel  it would help so that is available we get the   mangr and Marine Resources Council thank you Zach  mayor if there's no more questions we can move on   no I think the big takeaway here is sounds like  a really good project for for us and we I think   want to zoom out a little and say hey here's all  of our Shor line we're going to knock this one out   uh but I think there is is an appetite for for  more shoreline protection if needed absolutely   so thank you and usually when these projects are  done you don't I wouldn't imagine a continuous   linear line of like infrastructure it would be  specific targeted places where you see and then   you let the green side of it um appreciate the  project over time instead of like with a seaw wall   that depreciates over time failure and whatnot so  yeah one of the only infrastructure projects that   compounds on itself interesting all right if we're  ready to move on mayor uh next one is canaval fire   rescue station 53 enhanced lightning protection  system Zach okay so this is pretty simple um   this would be the last facility that we would  install uh one of our cmce devices to dissipate   lightning within a 375 degree uh area around  around it um All City facilities are complete   with such a project this would be CRA funded uh  the device itself would only cost about $12,500   but we budgeted 16,000 just in case we have  to talk to Dave Sergeant just to make sure he   was okay he was okay so um yeah it would be uh  either mounted on the top of the radio antenna   behind the building or on a ballasted mount that's  over the pitched roof at the dead center of the building which will make the fourth  facility or the fif fac that's great   I am super pleased to say that since installing  these there has been no on property damage from   lightning strikes don't they come with  some sort of a guarantee how does that   work again Zach there is a $500,000  no strike guarantee yeah W and a 10e   warranty thank you it's almost paid to  get thank you any questions on this one Council perform regular maintenance on these too  in the form of just checking the ground connection   so every before we go into every lightning season  um we know that they're up to stuff okay moving   on Zach resiliency division fleet vehicle  upgrade you've got two items about Vehicles   yes so first one is to replace two existing City  vehicles that have uh kind of seen their course um   looking to acquire a for Maverick hybrid pickup  truck uh to provide staff with better utility   capabilities and uh more reliability we've  had several issues with our Chevy Malibu uh   May rest in peace but um and then our our Fort  Focus uh also Kyle hits his head on the door   every time so we just kind of outg is is that  why it's no longer funing the truck what about Kyle's so Zach this will take care of two vehicles  this one yes we would like to replace both with   one vehicle um we could get this vehicle through  the Florida sherff Association at a pretty minimal   cost of uh only uh for less than $25,000 that  26 is just to allow for some extra add-ons like   safety lighting um and uh telematics use  uh so that would be really good with the   bed too we can start to use it to go to do more  City events show off the vehicle um in terms of   electrification efforts and then also just I think  it's prudent for the city to be utilizing vehicles   that have a little bit higher profile given flood  situations and whatnot so that it could be used   uh during Implement situations if we needed to  address certain responses to storms and whatnot so great gas M over 40 MPG and it's hybrid it is  yes and what's the can you how long can you go   on all electric or is it just regenerator  of the charging as it braks that would be   regenerative braking it's called an H hybrid  electric vehicle it would be used it would go   to battery mode at very low speeds probably 20  miles hour or less which is great for around   here it is and uh and then when it's at idle  and you could put around 20 miles an hour on   fully electric for quite a while yeah put  around I like that ter yeah we put around   officers are here so we're just putting  around yeah so thank you I think that's a well 25 it's a 10 year old the Chevy Malibu  you're 10 is that not operating anymore it   operates but it's you know it's GNA it's become  a money pit there there's things going wrong with   constant maintenance it's it's time yeah it's over  10 years old and do we have a as far as fitting in   the back the mobile pumps where we have flooding  sometimes I think we have other vehicles set for   that larger could it work on that one there could  be a hitch at it I'm not aware of what the um the   toe capacity is it has some toe capacity but  I don't know what it is but we usually use our   like F250 vehicles for um that type of bigger  yeah thank you any other questions okay moving   on next one is resilience operations utility um  v2x I'm probably not saying that correctly you   are okay more Vehicles so this is another Hazard  mitigation Grant funded project still outstanding   um it's in the current fiscal year budget to  support the 7525 uh these vehicles would uh be   probably put in public works these would in fact  be all electric Ford F-150 Lightning pickups and   um I'll be honest with you I don't have much  confidence that we will actually get this Grant   because U the uh the funding cycle uh calls that  that Vehicles can't be included although the city   made the argument that these are in fact mobile  generators which is how they are built by Ford uh   in this picture you could see them being utilized  for such operations these have a massive battery   system inside of them that can be utilized for  on-site usage for construction or whatnot powering   lights tools charging devices and also included  in this C would be the implementation of um v2x   technology which is vehicle to X or excuse me  vehicle to everything so these can actually   be plugged into a building and used as backup  generators to power the facility for a few days on   full charge three days of an average sized us home  at full charge rationing it go up to seven days we   would have two so we could intermix the vehicles  um and uh yeah that's pretty much what that the   city this the city Us in the city of Titusville  applied for this uh project so I don't know how   many vehicles they ask for but we ask for two now  if we were to win that and purchase those Vehicles   they could power the bcso we could install that  technology to do that yes no I do not know I do   not off hand full back up I don't I don't know  it'd be something but I don't know off hand   how much that would be something like the Public  Works Services administration building where they   would you know stage after disaster to coordinate  Public Works efforts certainly a building of that size I think um hopefully yeah they see  it that way it's a battery with wheels yes okay happens to look like a pickup are  there any anticipated um reductions in that   price based on the fact they're doing those  layoffs I maybe I don't know um we went for   the uh the price is a little on the heavier  side because we also went for more premium   version since we figured most would be paid for  by the state why not why not go For Broke and try   and get more this was this specific variant was  what the city of Orlando purchased and we were   able to view that and it seemed like a good fit  so that's why we went with that but there could   be a reduction by the time we would go out to  get one that's what I'm wondering I'm thinking   that there may be because there's kind of some  changes going on with them thank you back when   will you know if we get this grant I really  hope I can tell you in the next few months it   should be this fiscal year but with the state  of Florida I don't I don't know sometimes and   does the Public Works uh Administrative  Building have the solar um it does not at   this time it is if the grid goes down out there  there's a massive backup diesel generator that   kicks in to keep the facility going this could  offset some of that and keep that specific to   critical pumps and whatnot and the outlying admin  buildings and whatnot offices could utilize this technology that would be the biggest project  if we were trying to offset the electricity   consumption those facilities that's like  80% of our electric bill when you add all   the facilities just there but boy that would  be quite a project you see them covering the   the clarifier or the to tops of the but still not  enough I mean there's a a lot of power coming out   of there and I think being able to um keep that  operating is is good but it would take a lot of   trucks I think if even possible the demand is  so high yes for to increase energy Security in   the plant I would vouch you know I think the  existing diesel generator does a really good   job um so but any more supplemental additions uh  could be additional battery storage systems there   are treatment plans that have uh done that now  but we're talking Battery Systems that the size   of shipping containers it would be a it would  be a very big project but I do think the plant   is up to Snuff at this point with what uh Coreal  these would provide additional capabilities and   uh reduce that load a every little bit we  can reduce on the main generator is great   and this was for one one truck two two that's  what I thought I was looking for okay thank you okay any other questions councel hearing  none mayor we'll move on to Traffic Safety   public installation Zach is this you or Kyle  yes last one so this one is a project that was   sent our way by uh 321 Millennials um mayor I  think they might have contacted you for yeah   so um this is something that we're looking  to do with uh funding that would be provided   from 321 Millennials which is basically a youth  group uh that provides education and Outreach to   communities try to enhance communities overall  they're looking to do uh in collaboration with   us some type of crosswalk art design very cool  very placemaking um somewhere within the city   um we wanted to budget a little bit for being  able to pay for design costs from perhaps a   local artist um I I don't know offhand how  much the free two Monon LS would be able to   give um but we thought this would be a pretty  cool uh project to do somewhere perhaps in the   presidential streets uh maybe on a street that we  know won't be done for quite a number of years um   or some somewhere perhaps Elementary I think  that would be an awesome educational piece and   it would be done probably also in collaboration  with the Space Coast Transportation Planning organization Kyle do you want to anything  about that uh no I was just gonna mentioned   we we had talked to them about cape view uh one  of the roads around there and possibly you know   getting the students involved somehow and you  know voting or some element of that so it's   just kind of a fun thing to creates a sense of  place this this kind of thing I think could be   thought of in future upcoming presidential  streets at aign also other areas of the city   where could potentially just yeah that's a  good place for that um and just as an aside   it looks like they're playing an asp diminished  chord on the piano one there I really like that one I think um doing it down by cap you there's  many Crossways where the kids cross to get to   school that would be a good place and then you  know we're going to tear apart the presidential   streets why paint it and then tear it up so doing  it down there would be something I would be pretty   pretty unique for Bard I'm only aware of one  other in the county in Coco Village front of   the playhouse that might be another I don't know  but we'd probably be one of the first to have such   such an installation which would beol do you have  any idea how long it would take before it need to   be repainting repainted I do not um because I know  that suns in chance things like that that would   certainly have to be considered in the cost of  the project over the long term what would be the   ongoing maintenance of it um but this is this  is very high level we haven't really explored   that much we wanted to at least include it so that  you could be aware of it pick and choose and and   because 321 Millennials had expressed interest  in working with us so I'm wondering Zach if it   if there's like a coding that can be applied like  every year or so to help keep it looking fresh Tim   do you know do you you have any uh experience  with striking or or codings of this type that could what what do they have Tim to help  preserve it over the years from fading okay yeah be a protectant from that yeah Zach  can we get some follow-up information on that   how how we can protect and preserve this  I think that'll be helpful for our Council sure yeah I remember them and I did not I think  was it Lexi or you or I can't even remember just   took it and ran with it and so I I'm happy to see  uh this is coming back I think my comment would   be the community appearance board be be involved  in this and just make sure we're really talking   through uh you know what it is I love cape view  Rockets um right there Cher you know wherever it   makes sense but I think the other thing we have  to ask ourselves is you know once it goes there   there you know will there be a desire to do more  what is the cost and I remember the pul Avenue   plans that sort of floated around a few years  back yes and they they did a uh sort of more   of a Timeless not as artistic what was it was a  design at you know one of the intersections that   was pretty significant it was very appealing if  I recall but um that idea about beautifying the   intersections um I think ongoing it will be  really important because once it starts to   you know fade as we know and now you've got a lot  and so um I thought that's where city manager was   going to go that's why black and white piano keys  very simple but yeah there do that ourselves and   I think we keep up with it yeah we have to as  we look at things like this that beautify our   city we have have to really ask ourselves  and our citizens you know how much are you   willing to pay to keep this going because every  project that we bring in that adds something to   our city has to be paid for over its lifetime  and so maintenance is a huge thing to me what   is that going to cost you know in the long run  so I'm I look at long run and big picture so   where it's really Gorge and I can see a peacock  at some intersection near Harbor Heights Mickey   I can see the peacock we have to keep it beautiful  because as you add all of these things and also I   would think that City branding we would want  to make sure we're staying in line with City   branding if that's been defined so in addition  to um protecting and preserving let's bring back   information on om andm on an annual basis for  say one intersection I know we could get it   right we'll figure I think it's it's beautiful to  to to do that is a peacock right there isn't it   Tampa y yeah some cities have done these on  a temporary basis too understanding that it   would be incurring long-term maintenance so they  would get a grant or some donation for a local   artist to do it on a temporary basis to raise  awareness for various issues so that could also   be some type of expiration too cool thank you you  that's all I got for you and mayor we're ready to   move on to the next Department unless you want  to take another break Council keep going do we need good keep moving I think if it's  okay with you mayor I can step out for   my break and we can have Jessica come  up and start or Molly Molly's next I'm sorry I don't think Jessica want  wants to submit Molly so present   and Molly you'll start with the canaval  city park concession stand idea I'll be   right back yes and it is Workshop if  anyone needs to step out obviously informal we're we're still here with you m understood oh Lisa Lisa can help so Al righty  when we come back we should just say all right   that was great right yeah y adjourned all right  so the first one we will start with is not new   it's not an update it's actually a reboot so  as we have talked about um a couple different   projects that have taken longer than expected  this is um this is one of those we have had um   a couple different challenges uh we knew there  was a need for um kind of an updated space at   the uh Canaveral City Park ball field to uh do  the announces the the announcing for the games   and a space where they can actually have a a  brick and mortar place to do concession sales   which is as many of you know pretty important  to helping to fund different uh Youth Athletic   organizations so the first time that this project  was proposed which was I believe fiscal year 2122   that was uh before I took owners or took over  in this department um there were some unknowns   and there was some challenges with the site that  required us to kind of take a step back from what   was originally being considered the original  idea was to install a a prefab building kind   of a drop in place type of structure and the more  we considered the needs that both um the city and   little league had for the building and the harder  we looked at the space that it that that building   needed to fit within it became apparent that a  drop in place structure like our um uh outdoor   restroom facility at canaval city park wasn't  going to fit um there's trees that would have   to move there's um a modern day setbacks that  we would have to accommodate so uh we also had   to consider uh timing in anything that we do  uh regarding the ball field because we need   to have it completed in between Seasons so it  doesn't interrupt their games or their access   to the field um so with Todd's help you can see  uh from your slide there that we've got a a good   rough design and it's a unique design and it not  only adds a little character to the space uh but   it also helps conform to our coats because part of  that tyght fit that we had there is it's already   on a corner it's kind of placed at a 45 degree  angle to the corner and we have setbacks that   that that we can't block so we couldn't build  out too far into those setback areas I believe   we have a a TW foot maximum where we can exceed  that but you barely have that with the cone of   visibility at the intersection itself so whatever  we put there um needed to meet everybody's needs   needed to meet the needs of the space and and  still be something that um that was useful so   if you if you noticed the design itself is shaped  like home plate and it's the the angles of that   extended roof structure which would be a covered  area where people could you know come up and get   their concessions um that's what helped us fit  within that very narrow corner so um the update   ated costs um will include uh design engineering  and demolition of the existing structure and this   will be very much a design build project where  the person that will be doing the work is going   to flesh out the designs that we have um already  prepared and give us a you know an updated scope   of what that's going to look like and then we  go from there questions Molly on page 53 what   I'm seeing is for electric vehicles that  do I have something wrong on the financial   piece of this I think there was an updated a  couple updated pages okay thank you that helps me um I have a couple questions or a couple things  to say anyway um this is one of the projects that   has been kicked down the road several times um  and I hope that in this budget you know I know   that once we get to the budget part there'll be  cuts and things we'll have to do to maintain our   low tax rate I hope that this is not one of them  um you know it's a sense of place definitely in   that in the right pillar and um I think it's  a real important part of quality of life in   our city for the children you know we say that  that area C5 is a multi-generation center um   you know we need a concession stand there uh  we've missed out on opening day uh Ceremonies   for this uh baseball and parades and stuff that  add quality of life to our city as well um the   one thing I don't understand and I I guess I  don't know but the old you know we've taken   things away from we took the concession stand  away we took the other baseball field away um   the old concession stand was definitely blight  it was horrible the this um announcers Booth   is blight horrible needs to be done I don't  understand how a lightning rod can get funded   by the CRA and not a concession stand that's in  the CRA District that is definitely Improvement   um I I I don't understand that and the delays  again has brought the cost extremely high you   know we were hoping to do something like you said  Molly prefabricated obviously it didn't fit in the   dimensions that we needed it but I think we  have waited so long now it's $300,000 for a   concession stand even the prefabs back then came  in much higher than what was originally outlined   in the budget but I mean delays delays delays  and and this is my whole beef on is now that   we have new projects Civic Hub and all things  that absolutely need to be done but why do they   take president over something that we've been  we took it away a concession stand we need to   replace it back for the residents of the city  so you know I'm just hoping that Council will   see that this is a well needed thing and funded  this year um and again I do not understand how a   lightning rod gets funded through CRA and not  a blighted building that's in the CRA that's   all I got to say thank you Molly for this it's  a great plan I hope it comes through and it's   well needed um it is a sense of place for our  city a great place to go get a great hot dog   and watch a little leagues play baseball  it's part of our small town field so thank you any other I have some comments on this  one the the so the design and Engineering   is 10,000 budgeted roughly Bud demolitions five  the timeline to get engineering did you go over   that or did I miss that what do we thinking  it wouldn't really start until this would be   a design build so I would work with Tim and Todd  to put together a full scope for the bid package   and the person that will be doing the design is  going to be the person that's going to do the building so we would internally share you know  we want this uh in concept and then they would   bid on making that a professional  design and actually constructing it yes M yes my thought was if we could just hit  the gas pedal and get the design done soon and   not make it a design build and just say we just  need engineered design plans we can get those   earlier because that would allow us I think to  still do the same thing I I suppose maybe paid   a little bit more but I think this is an update  this is something we last year we I think really   supported cut it was removed last year because we  had so many things to work out and as far as the   because even after we we started to find um a a  building style or a mechanism to to fit within a   a reasonable budget then we had to step back and  look at okay what does Little League need this   space to do for them what does the city need the  space to do for them and how can we make it meet   codes because currently that building I mean it's  literally built from old telephone polls so it's   obviously in need of some some Modern attention  and and this would the goal would be that it's a   fully functioning concession stand with uh enough  Electrical uh hot water all the amenities to serve   a the one thing you won't have is air condition  dog at the ball game you know get it the one   thing you won't have is air conditioning though  there'll be a fans passive ventilation but no   air conditioning what's the reason for that um we  just didn't think it we needed it here because the   windows are going to be open a lot of the time  when it's in operation anyways okay just just   making sure it wasn't du to wasn't capable I guess  you could always come in with a tower unit or   something after oh sure I think it's split another  thing that uh we did with W andj when we were   doing that cast in place con concrete bathroom  out there we had to run sewer and water to that   we had them stub it out the sewer to the north of  that so that will just continue to run up behind   the the stands up to this area so we have sewer  serving this building that's great I'd like to do   whatever we can to see this get finished I know  heard your comments about you know taxes and and   being able to support these are I'm happy to see  this of course it's more uh but we really don't   know a whole lot yet the going back to the design  and this is all I want to say if I was looking at   that um aerial on the actual if that was laid  over the property is it going right behind the   back stop where the existing or redevelop I mean  I actually have that on my computer right now if   we want to go upstairs I can show it to you  yeah it's like a big home plate right behind   home plate so that nose is directly in line with  the home plate and center field yes yeah the the   um point of the home plate part of the building is  actually pointing towards the intersection because   one of the issues we had was the setbacks on that  intersection section so we had to slim that side   of the design so that we it's very tight sight  oh you've got sidewalks going down both sides   there sidewalks stop sign trees so if you would  have put are we going to have to move any of the   trees there or is this going to fit in then it  might there's Palms in that immediate area those   would be the only ones that would potentially  um be moved moved and another question I didn't   mean to interrupt the poles that the that  it's built on now are not owned by fpnl are they that could be the big  surprise that holds it up   even longer if they have to come back and remove those my the the top of the the nose of the  plate that in this design is that oriented   facing the intersection or facing center  field facing the intersection section okay   so it fits the Contour in the shape  of the diamond yes and then it fits   also within the the setbacks that we have  on either side of those okay that way the   visibility triangle and all that comply  with that it's a very custom building   for a custom tight site so it's like the the  home plate it's facing it's back to back okay okay interesting thank you I um whatever we can  do to to get it moving uh I would support but   this is just to present and all right thank  you thank you and moving on Molly your next   one is canaval city park re development devel all  right so this is another one um it's been on the   books for a few years now uh with last year um  if you put your put your budget book from this   this year side by side with this one you'll see  that we've kind of rearranged the phases one of   the reasons for rearranging the phases was that  um with some other more pressing priorities for   the this particular upcoming fiscal year and  then obviously the one that we're in now um the   question from Council was can the playground  be pushed out and at that time we said it the   replacement is coming the replacement needs to  come relatively soon but yes we can we can make   it another year or so so um following that Year's  Workshop we pushed it out so that we could focus   resources to address other issues that were based  on community feedback which is uh some lighting in   on the inside of the park so that people can kind  of see in there when the park is supposed to be   closed to see if there's motion to see if you know  law enforcement needs to be called um and then   also completing that fencing so the lights around  arrived I think last week and we're on schedule   to do the fencing so that'll be completed within  the next couple weeks um and that leaves us to   what is now called phase two and that's proposed  for the upcoming budget year and that's going to   help us facilitate events and activities in  that big green space um without having cords   running across sidewalks without having to take  every rug out of the C5 and Nancy Hansen to make   sure that there's no trip hazards because at  this point there's only two power sources on   the exterior of that entire space one of which  is the pole over by Sandpiper and the the big   tall pole I'm not sure what purpose it served in  the past outdoor lighting the the big I think that   was left over from the old Ballfield lighting  maybe um and then you have the plugs that are   attached to the building that's why if you've  ever noticed when we're doing events out there   that require power we're either up against the  building or we're up against the playground we   don't have really any options in between unless  we're running miles of power courts so that um   has been proposed for fiscal year 2425 and then  the playground equipment and resurfacing um that   has been proposed for 2526 and um when we get to  that year it'll be uh one of the main priorities   on this property because we're already having  issues getting replacement parts for the existing   equipment and I don't anticipate that we're  going to be able to get those for much longer   so uh if you don't have the right parts to fix  the equipment the equipment will become unsafe   and we'll have to remove it and I don't really  want to take anything away until I'm ready to   replace so is there funding available for  playground there is and by having this uh   situated in fiscal year 2526 that gives us um  uh the the grant stuff for fap who's paid for   the majority of the city's parks and specifically  playground elements uh benches stuff like that um   that is getting ready to open so that I can start  looking for that and we might even depending upon   as Zach said it's the state um depending upon how  they decide to fund things if some other St state   level priorities come up and they kind of scale  back on the fur app we could have two Grant Cycles   before we would ever need to actually you know  issue the PO to order the equipment so there's   there's advantages in phasing things I do it in  my own house and I I try to do it here as much as possible I've got a a statement question concern  that I've heard from the public um regarding the   C5 area when we have events out in the Green Space  can we not Orient those events so that anyone with   any disability or mobility issues can utilize  the sidewalks to get to them because anytime we   have an event it is focused to the middle of the  Green Space which makes it difficult for anybody   to get around to it and we have so much I mean  it's great looking Landscaping but it prevents   anybody from getting in as well and that's one of  the things that I've really wanted to address in   the the coming budget year that I was planning on  putting in my just general building and grounds   is I the the design for that Landscaping looked  great on paper but now that we're we've been in   the building for about a year and we're trying  to navigate through it it's like I'm having to   jump over bushes so so we need to have some  clear Pathways and one of my um one of my   plans and working on this updated budget is to  work with IM and and kind of reimagine some of   the plans because obviously some of them didn't  work out uh we had to change our irrigation in   those areas because of the state requirements  for the splash pad we use reclaimed water they   weren't a huge fan of that potentially getting  into the recirculation system so I don't know   um I wasn't part of that planning part where  they discussed Landscaping versus irrigation so   I don't know if once they changed the irrigation  they updated what plants they were going with but   either way we've got some some nons survivors and  those are in my mind um making opportunity points   for we where we can build some connectivity where  it's easier to get from sidewalk to event space   okay well just just so we can look at it and and  make it a little more accessible and even on our   handicap parking as well see how we navigate  that I think that might need to be looked at again any other questions on this one thank you  Molly moving on Civic Hub and I know we are going   to get a presentation from kimley horn again  at the April council meeting on this as well   all right so um you've got a pretty good recap  as far far as the history of the project going   back to the 2021 strategic planning Retreat  the demolishing of the old structure that was   there at 744 and um this particular project  as we've already mentioned it I think three   or four times in the different um the different  Department's presentation so far that uh this   touches a lot of things this touches storm  water this touches uh definitely touches on   the presidential streets because there's a  presidential Street on either side of this   property and um the focus for the upcoming fiscal  year is settled firmly on the storm water designs   and and and getting our ducks in a row to make  the necessary storm water improvements so um for   that if you have any specific questions on  that I'm going to have to tap my friend Tim   to to help out with uh with any of that Molly I  think it would help if we talk about the phases   if we go to the next slide Daniel so this this  is how we're breaking it into phases the phase   one was the preliminary that was the purchase  and the demo that Molly talked about phase two   is the conceptual plan the pretty pictures that  is what is going to be delivered by kimley horn   in April uh for Council acceptance then phase  three is the underground storm water phase and   there's two pieces of this there's the design  of the underground storm water on that one the   current approved fiscal year 2324 budget includes  $150,000 for demolition of Select elements and   preparation for the storm water project  it's proposed that instead this $150,000   be utilized towards the storm water design in  2324 um and kimley Horn has indicated they can   come in under budget with that then Part B to  that would be the next year underground storm   water construction the approved 2324 budget  includes $ 1,50,000 programmed for the next   fisal year for construction of storm water  Improvement so our recommendation is that   remain as is and be unchanged then final  phases are the above ground improvements   there's the design is a and the construction is  B and that we are putting status to be addressed   in future budgets because right now we're just  wanting to focus on getting the storm water done the thank you very much the that last senat  you read the approved fiscal year 2324 budget   includes 1,50,000 programmed for 2425 what do  you me what is programmed mean it's already   in the current existing budget for 2425  it's in the CIP yes sir but it's not in   that in the current year budget correct  right okay and but obviously it's 232 or   yeah 24 now this uh budget season coming up  upon us right it would essentially move into   this year's in the new in the upcoming  budget yes and we would then uh vote for   that yes sir okay thank you any questions  Council comments far as time we are at 406 PM okay mayor there's nothing else we can move  on to the next one good good good yes sir thank   you okay next one is um cool little golf cart  Vehicles all right so this is um this is kind of   another ongoing one uh going back to last fiscal  year which was uh 2223 um this department uh set   about a plan to replace uh three of its aging um  vehicles and the first one we replaced uh was a   old maintenance truck that was inherited by us  from public works I believe it was a 2006 I'm   not sure that was replaced with a new Ford hybrid  F150 um for this budget year 2324 we replaced the   or our awaiting delivery on the replacement for  Ian's maintenance vehicle of 2014 Nissan Frontier   and we're getting uh the same thing only a 2024 uh  Ford F-150 hybrid and that leaves our little 2014   Jeep Liberty um one of the challenges that we have  with the Jeep Liberty right now is it doesn't get   driven as much as it needs to to be to to stay in  good maintenance we do our we do our oil changes   we do everything we're supposed to do but when a  vehicle just sits it's not good for it in a long   term so when I took a step back and looked at  what would be a more useful vehicle for my team   to run between buildings to pick up deposits to  move equipment to run speakers and podiums from   one event to the next event within an hour um  and with the adoption uh by Council of of golf   cart um procedures for the city and and areas that  we can operate in it made more sense that instead   of getting one 30 to $40,000 vehicle that may  not get as much use to get two smaller electric   vehicles that we can be up around town in that  don't have the large scale vehicle maintenance   needs the fuel needs and all of that and we can  use it to um haul people we can use it to haul   staff we can use it um for a variety of things  and having two of them both facil ities will be   able to both parts of the municipal campus will  be able to be traveled to without having to have   one person walk over to Nancy Hansen grab the  Jeep and then go run to wherever they need to go and the price that's set um that that appears  here the 40,000 is for two of them and that is   built out with all of the full specs that would  make it um uh not only street legal for the city   but also include roll Downs so it can be used in  in rainy weather anything else oh would this be   a low speed vehicle or a golf cart I don't really  know so the the lows speed vehicles have to stay   licensed with the state and they can go on any  roadway that designated speed limits um golf   carts not approved by the states not licensed  by the states it's our program that we have can   only go in those those roads designated for golf  carts that's all you need to go is on the roads   designated for golf carts correct so this doesn't  need to be a low speed vehicle not technically   if we ever needed to can and I don't remember  because there was so much back and forth can a   a golf cart cross at Central there's no Crossing  there's no Crossing Okay then if we ever needed   to take a one of our vehicles to go to Manatee  to go to banana or the plant we would just use   one of our maintenance vehicles or uh the van  that we purchased for our camps that's one of   the limitations of golf carts is they can't  cross A1A unless they're on a trailer and we   have and we have solutions for that so M have  a question if you say like to move equipment   and everything wouldn't it would it my question  is would it be better to buy one six-seater and   then one with a utility back um both of the ones  that I'm looking at the back seat folds down so   you can hold so you can carry things because  yeah nine times out of 10 it's going to be a   piece of equipment and not a person but I'd like  the flexibility yeah it folds down okay thank you   I don't see anywhere to put my golf clubs you  might have to fold down that back thing you   can't get to a golf course from here that's  true that's true oh yeah we also don't have   a golf course I have to walk to the putting green  now the CIP for Golf Course isn't in this year's bu I don't know what kind of land Redevelopment   we could do to get a golf course  so you 3D print it right out in the good one thank you m any other questions on  the exciting topic of golf carts moving on uh   we're at mandatary Sanctuary Park infrastructure  upgrades all right so um in my conversations with   Todd um and and how I'm kind of strategizing  my Capital Improvement plans my projects going   forward is like I said earlier I do try to phase  things and we have facilities that are always   going to need some level of Maintenance there's  a lot of facilities especially after two years   of pandemic that didn't get all the attention  that they needed and there's some things that   are just plain old so um what I've got on as far  as like the next uh three years Vision forward for   Manatee Sanctuary Park as you may recall um in  the last two years we have done the structural   repairs that were needed for the boardwalk we  have repaired the root damage along the pedway   we have uh resealed the top coat for the entire  pedway and did some some minor cosmetic upgrades   that were really needed in the bathrooms there's  still more work to do um our environment even in   enclosed buildings are not kind to um Plumbing  fixtures uh faucets anything like that so those   those corrode very quickly and when they fail  they leak when they leak they cost money and   it's it's better to just try to stay on top of it  so um the current what I see as the most pressing   need in that um in that scope for that Park is  our parking lot light fixtures the lights that   were installed out there um were installed in  2013 the these same lights from what I have uh   learned from infrastructure maintenance have been  replaced in other areas of the city as well um we   are getting uh increased frequency of reports  of them either not coming on not ever being on   um and so forth so so I worked with uh Zach to um  get some quotes and we determined that $330,000   should more than address the replacement of the  fixtures out there so that we have uh proper   lighting um going forward the next um item that  I'd like to really examine is some of the park   Furniture mainly the picnic tables and I'd like to  include in in the new purchases um additional Ada   accommodating picnic tables I think currently  there's two over there and I think we could do   better um and then lastly the uh replacement  of any electrical components that are rusted   out and to include the uh conduit that's visible  from inside the The Pavilion what was installed   once upon a time I think what back in the 90s  no it was early 2000s early 2000s um was steel   so it's it's pretty well rusted through it  would be replaced with rigid plastic conduit fittings but those are those are that's  my vision for future maintenance major   future maintenance needs at manate Sanctuary park there great any questions on that one comments  okay moving on to banana kayak Trail master plan   all right this is kind of a fun one um much like  everything else I do it kind of overlaps um a   couple different departments a couple different  projects and a couple different needs um first   and foremost I think the the idea of this kayak  um this kayak Trail came long before me and one   of the things that it uh really tied into was  some of the plans that have been discussed for   the aquarium and one of those things that the  aquarium has discussed doing is adding a kayak   launch there so we have a kayak launch immediately  south of that property at Banana River Park which   is very well utilized um and the idea that that  this came from was to connect additional passive   parks along the Route South um to make a state  designated Trail along the Banana River that   actually LED you down to Coco Beach where there  was periodic stops along the way um when this   plan was presented to me it occurred to me that  this could also help me deal with a couple issues   that I have both at Manatee Sanctuary Park and  a similar issue that I have at Center Street one   of the issues that we've always had at Manatee is  that the boardwalk occupies the entire length of   the property and then there's some fairly thick  vegetation which we know is very important to   maintain said vegetation to maintain you know the  Integrity of that Shoreline but that doesn't stop   people from ducking underneath the uh Pavilion  there and going out and Fishing Off The Rocks   which is obviously less than safe never mind  whatever is living underneath the um Boardwalk   but then you're standing on raw coina and you know  fishing casting Nets whatever you're doing so if   people are going to do it and there's no way I'm  going to stop it one of my thoughts was to create   a space off that Boardwalk where people can have  access to the water in a safe Manner and maybe   they'll stop ducking underneath the boardwalk  because they're leaving trash under there it   you know if they're messing with the rocks that  does threaten our Shoreline and that's something   that ties into Center Street Park where we do  have a constant need to refurbish and check on   that Shoreline right there because there's  not much to it and it does erode frequently   and that's another place where people are trying  to access the water and it's not really designed   for people to do that it's more of a a nice place  to sit a nice place to reflect and a nice place   to look out but it's not a nice place to try to  launch a kayak and people are still trying to   do it so if they're just going to do it then uh  especially at Center Street Park that gives us an   opportunity to do some Shoreline reinforcement and  to protect what's there from further damage from misuse so in 2627 you'd have $150,000 for man  Sanctuary Park to create that space that does   both the kayak launch but also a place people  could do whatever they're going to do anyways   do whatever they're going to do anyways in a safe  Manner and not standing on rocks and I I inflated   some of these numbers a little bit because I  really didn't know what I was going to be looking   at because obviously any improvements of this  nature do need to go through St John's and they   just sound expensive so I threw a little bit extra  in there for permitting but this is obviously uh   a ways out um I don't have anything proposed for  this until 2016 27 but I thought it was important   to put on your radar and um kind of include it  in the thought process as we look at um different   Shoreline Solutions because it's not just the  environment we have to protect ourselves against   it's also people wanting to use that Shoreline and  it's not really in a good position for them to do   so safely for the shoreline or themselves in the  following year you talk about Center Street Park   um engineering permitting and also um Construction  Services I'm assuming that's the 60 G uh what's   happening at Center Street Park what are people  doing out there right now um I make signs no one   reads them um we've had issues with uh primarily  people trying to launch small boats and kayaks out   of there we've received complaints we do have um a  a local uh franchise holder that has delivered out   there and we even had to approach him and say Hey  you know it's on the sign you guys have basically   one place that you can actually launch kayaks from  this on city property and it needs to kind of stay   like that until there's actual infrastructure  there to make that safe so um between that and   then of course whenever we have a good storm  we get a lot of wash out right there and end   up having to go back in and fill in the holes or  push the Rocks back in place because the Rocks   there are actually relatively small M I apologize  this isn't a gacha question but it just occurred   to me the banana I'm sorry manity Sanctuary Park  was fap funded and there significant restrictions   on what we can and cannot do there does this  fall within what we're allowed to do at manity   Sanctuary yes it doesn't involve uh charging  anyone as long as we don't start charging to   use the the kayak launch it won't be an issue  it'll only be expanding what the park has to   offer in terms of recreation and likewise salon  on the river donated the property that is Center   Street park right now I don't believe there's  any conditions on that one I don't think there's   any current conditions the only thing that I ever  heard associated with Center Street Park is that   um and and this is probably decades ago is that  there was supposed to be some planting of seagrass   in the vicinity um that's the only condition  that I've ever ever heard out there thank you any uh questions on this uh thank you very  high level this is the first year I think we I   remember talking about you know this concept but  really we're looking at at this stage Manatee   Sanctuary Park and Center Street Park roughly  150,000 for the engineering permitting and bid   and then 75,000 I think I guess the construction  just doing a 5050 and then the same enhancements   at Center Street and then would B yeah um the  aquarium I think you were saying would that   would be like the northern the northern Point  yeah that's great any questions Council thank   you and hopefully then we can get Coco Beach  to play along okay moving on mayor uh City   Park tennis courts proposal all right so I was  asked to present this one as a possible project   for your consideration and this actually um came  out of a multitude of feedback that we got during   our Civic Hub Outreach sessions um this would help  to provide a dedicated space for both pickle ball   and tennis and alleviate the demand conflicts  that are ongoing at the Nancy Hansen Recreation   complex um it could um obviously everything is  conjecture but it could could help us um build   our our current tennis capacity if you will and  attract more teams it could help us build our   pickle ball capacity by having dedicated and  separate Courts for separate areas for those   two and the reason that we um leaned towards  tennis at this facility and not at the Nancy   Hansen was there's currently one problem that  this city doesn't have with pickle ball when   you look at the the the issues that are going  on Nationwide that councils like yourself are   having to to mitigate for recreation districts and  departments and that's we don't really have any   complaints from residents about the noise of the  paddles and if we were to introduce pickle ball   in the middle of canabal city park we would add  one more problem to our complaint list because it   would just reverberate off of all of those houses  and and could be disruptive so we lean towards   tennis um in this there's a lot of engineering  that's going to be involved to prevent impact on   the exfiltration system below but Kim leorn gave  us some preliminary calculations and they believe   it to be a feasible project for this location if  you decide to explore it further a little further   context I can add there as Molly said there was  there was quite a bit of feedback um about pickle   ball and tennis and the conflict generally can be  described described as the tennis players don't   want the pickle Ballers there and the pickle  Ballers don't want the tennis players there and   they both both groups have said we want our own  facilities so we're trying to please everybody   here and we know you can't when you try to do  that you can't please anybody so we looked at   well where could tennis go and we looked at all  of the facilities that we have and we realiz we   recognize that there's a limitation that we have  to have at least three tennis courts because of   what Molly uh the the current if if we're just  looking at our current needs um we need a minimum   of three for the USA teams USA teams and the only  place we can fit three tennis courts is at the   C5 canaval Park event lawn so we already know  that would be pushed back potentially from the   neighborhood there too to introduce tennis there  so this is a this is a tough one you know got our playall the Green Space could in front of the  C5 where we were talking about events earlier run   electrical the um the initial discussions for  is for this to be towards the south end of that   in the in the large yes in the large rectangular  space what about the vaults underneath a million   times that we couldn't put anything on that green  space because water that's where kimley horn and   their engineering magic is going to have to come  in because it will require some some substantial   engineering work to be done to make sure that  those are are kept and it's not so much I'm sorry   it's not so much the water flowing in because the  water flows in from the streets and goes and also   from the put in from the um reclaimed water it's  it's the concern about the weight capacity on top   of it so whatever is designed here has to meet  the the loading weight limits of that and there's   concrete put into the ground for fence poles  and lights they need to be in places that do   not conflict with Vault locations so that's  the engineering we're talking about I think after that would involve this idea to decide  to keep tennis courts over there or however   we it up that may be what we have to do the  the community asked the question so we put   it to the council is this something you want to  look into and another question you know it's the   time of the year when the snowbirds start going  home do we still have the pickle ball problem   during the summer as well we actually um are I I  I can't even imagine going out there and playing   on that court in July but we just had another um  tennis team approach us from USA League to start   up a summer league usually um well at least in  years past obviously the pick ball thing really   emerged you know out of the pandemic and people  needing to get outdoors and and things like that   um but it's like the summertime was almost  their safe Zone because a lot of the tennis   teams didn't play at that time they usually take  a break in the summer and then they take a break   around the holidays and now we're going to start  having more conflicts over the summer because I   mean that was basically almost free game out  there for another summertime storm of yeah yes   hurricane pickleball though I mean even in the  offse well there's more there's more old the   older people there's more older people than  younger people and they and they're playing   and they all want to play I mean this is this is  big this is getting people out like Molly said I   was reading some stuff on this it is amazing  the number of people who want to and and if   you look um if you looked on any of our um our  our followup from the paddle battle one of the   things that kind of struck me about the photos  and even though I I I stopped by that day and   I watched a couple people play when I saw the  photos of the you know the group photos of the   teams and the winners and all that the age group  has has expanded and there's a lot more younger   people playing so um our our demographics  there are are changing the um the sport   is growing and we just need to figure out how  best to accommodate you know everybody and it   wouldn't work at a Banana River Park couldn't  get the three tennis courts out there plus   wouldn't you need wouldn't you need staff to be  in proximity right pref it's it's a preference   there's there's mechanisms that you could put in  place but it's it's preferable to have a staff   presence there at least to control the space  you said three esorts yes is that what it is M the minimum for USA is three the minimum to  accommodate our how would they be oriented on   the proposed space it's a rectangular Green  Space uh east to west they' just be stack if   I was playing tennis would I face the beach  or face West or would I be facing north south   east west okay they would take up about a  third 2third of that space maybe a little   more literally move two3 of a green space yeah  so literally the the west side of that space on   the the space where we have the sidewalk it's  the Green Space opposite of city of the park   the playground right yes and we' take up two3 of  that just about if not a little more thank you   yeah it's it's an impactful project that's why  it's uh coming to you it would be controversial   it' be interesting to see what the expense is  for the engineering to put that weight on that field something to consider um if there's no other  questions mayor no sirk next up is a Center Street   Center Street Park upgrades easier yeah this  one's a little less intense and and definitely   not as controversial um so like the um upgrades  proposed for manit Sanctuary Park this plan looks   to address U an an approaching issue but it's a  rapidly approaching issue and this issue happens   to be the primary piece of infrastructure in  this park um the current gazebo is uh slowly   succumbing to the Salt environment uh from a  distance it actually looks really good um when   you start actually getting up there and for me  I'm short so I actually have to zoom um on my   camera it's it's not good it's a lot of the  hardware pieces have been um rusted replaced   and and now are rusting again and um it's  it borders on isore but eventually it will   become a safety risk um the proposed plan uh  will replace the structure with something a   with a little more longevity and a lot less  maintenance one of the ideas that has been in   the back of my mind for many years as soon as  I saw the condition of it and really realized   what it meant for the future of that Park is  if you're familiar with the gazebo in my Tharp   Square where it's constructed a little bit more  like our Pavilions where there's a little more   wood there's a lot less metal I mean this thing  is literally all metal and if you actually look   at the the seating in it it's like bleachers so  it's it's like a whole bunch of little pieces   it's been frankensteined a little bit over the  years and it's it's time to get something that's   nice but manageable and then if we're looking to  do more uh Shoreline stuff there if we actually   move forward with the the kayak launch we'll want  something that's a little bit more substantial and   um less less concern when it comes to rusting  out so is this for the gaze to rebuild a gazebo mm for 2526 and how how large how many feet across  is that Gazo I'm not sure I'm not sure yeah   that's this is this is a golden Hammer to me  cuz we I know someone that had one done in   20,000 did it so boy this is a huge amount  to me but I don't know the specifics and   I goes into and and I don't know what design  we're going to land on because there's a lot   of research to go into it and I'd rather aim  high because we've learned our lesson about   aiming low and there's a gas line that runs  directly underneath it that's probably going   to be super fun um so there's uh there's there's  under ground infrastructure there and as you know   they're actually working on a tidal valve title  valve a tidal valve pump that actually has more   infrastructure so whatever we put in that space  we're going to have to install rather delicately   thank you you're welcome with the my thought  was with the installation of the tidle valve   and the pump and all the things we're talking  about around that area would that have already   required this to be demolished for any or did  did I I believe the title valve is not going   riverward of the baffle box correct correct  Tim the title valve is landw of the baffle box right your leg fell asleep some Y and that was  something that I approached him with when he was   telling our group about the tidal valve I was  like oh is are what what happens to my gazebo   do you need to move it so right all right so  the title valve actually everything's going to   be underground and the pump is actually going  to be where the lift station is so when we're   done with what we're doing nothing's changed  it's all underground so it's all landward of   the baffle box uh it's going to be on the south  side of the baffle box it's an 18 in or I think   a 16 in pipe and it's going to back tree is the  oak tree with the bushes around it that's where   it's going to tie back into the 54 inch height  and then that's where just behind where that   ties in is where the way Pro Valley is going to  be that's west of the Baff east of the baffle   box that is west of the ba box okay okay so it  is it is in the park vicinity got behind the fence so would the would the Gazebo need to come  up to do any of that work is the question no but   here are my thoughts on that and I think I had  mentioned it to Molly that if console decides   they want to go forward with getting this removed  and replaced uh the contractor that I have out   there doing the work on the Center Street Pump  Station I had kind of put a little bug in his   ear and said well hey if if we decide or if the  council decides they want this removed did notice   that I think you have it for next fiscal year or  this fiscal year for next yeah not this coming not   unless everybody's really excited but if it's a a  hazard um they would be willing to remove it but   that is totally up to you guys I don't think we're  saying it's a safety hazard right now not yet   wouldn't wouldn't the we want to tie this into the  kayak traal yeah at least somewhat I mean is an   improvement so I mean is there a necessity for it  to be a gazebo not necessarily I mean if we were   going to put out a kayak launch area wouldn't you  need it a little more open than having a gazebo   there good I mean you could even do um maybe some  kind of a wood structure out there that had a   cover over it at the kayak launch point because  as it stands now what they what they tend to do   um what the neighbors have reported is the the  current gazebo it just has a concrete floor it's   just a straight you know straight off the sidewalk  into it you can walk through it as long as you're   not going side by side you can carry your kayak  right through it right now or people will walk   around depending upon how big their kayak is but  um but when we when we get around to putting in   the kayak area where that's that's not what we're  going to want probably not um I mean judging from   the aerial view it looks like that gazebo is about  15 ft in diameter that's a good estimate um I but   I think your point is a good one that whatever  kayak launch facility we do could take the place   of the need to have a gazebo yes I I I just I just  think a nice uh track type deck out into the river   would with maybe some built-in benches or whatever  along the sides would suffice but that's just me   and there are nice trees around that area um that  are only going to get nicer so that that could   provide the shade and rest bit that people needed  if they needed to use that particular kayak as a   stopping point are they considering I mean like  I know vanity Park they have access to bathro want consideration for that uh  I have not considered that just   due to the size of the space and the  proximity to the the condos and the residential u i see Dr Roberts's hands  raised if you would like to speak and if   it's more comfortable I can repeat what you  say into the mic if you're comfortable there yes than thank you yes so I think the community  feedback is that uh some events such as weddings   um and and just the awareness of using it as a  as a kayak facility is something that we need   to communicate with the community the neighbors  nearby and talk through yeah this one uh it's this   property is mentioned three time in three it's  kind of referenced in three projects and I think   we all agree the most important one is what Tim  talked about the flooding and so my hope is that   that that project if if this was a hazard issue  and and removing this would help that project   um without preventing its current use great but  that would be under the condition that we could   when they're done uh with the Center Street pump  or the uh title valve or whatever improvements are   needed there uh is that we would be able to you  know restore it to whatever the community wants   and if there are no issues today I would support  you know and this is just Citywide I know the   paint and things like that are to freshen that  up and to make any modest repairs that we could   if it was a safety issue so that folks can enjoy  it but if it's going to be under construction I   guess that was where I was going is the the access  to this will that that be limited for these other   infrastructure maintenance projects will this part  be closed while work is going on there yeah to an   extent that they'd have to part of their mot is  that restrict Public Access so the public wouldn't   be able to access it that is a great time to make  improvements but you don't want to paint something   that ultimately we end up going in that direction  uh so I I just would like to see a coordination   between if we're going to do the kayak Trail  if that is whatever that means for that Ark   that uh we tie that into any replacement of the  Gazebo yeah if we're going to need to replace it   and in conjunction with community outreach and I  think Dr Robert's point is a good one people go   there for weddings because it's beautiful it's  a quaint little building it's very picturesque   especially as you get the sunsets and the photos  and the people gathering around that but if you   introduce this kayak launch we don't want it to  become a fishing spot where there's fishing scales   everywhere there too where people trying to have  photos for so we have to think about the design   it still needs to be beautiful attractive space  so people can go there for that purpose without   attracting a nuisance problem and and also we be  increasing usability which is a good thing because   you got now not only W weddings and photos but  you got kayak people nature enthusiasts but we   are increasing the intensity there which is a  concern for the Condominium Association so we   need to make sure we talk to them too of course  thank you Dr Roberts for all those comments thank   you any other comments questions thank you Molly  okay moving on to community garden all right so   the plan that's proposed here is an attempt to  address the issue that is the community garden   so I currently have my Advisory Board reaching  out to Residents in their immediate neighborhoods   to kind of take the Pulse of the community on  this Pro program um for those that are actively   engaged in the garden program it's a great thing  it's a quality of life amenity and it's greatly   appreciated especially by those who don't have  the ability to have their own piece of land or   dirt or even a planter box that they can you know  grow uh either vegetable vegetables or flowers or   just even get their hands dirty the other side  of that coin is that the original concept for   this community garden at least as it was pitched  to me in I think 2017 I wasn't directly involved   with it but my understanding was that this  program was going to really be spearheaded   by residents and volunteers when it came to a lot  of the day-to-day upkeep of the beds and uh the   overall maintenance support for the program and  over the years the interest and the engagement   in the garden has both waned um and there's not a  lot of consistency when it comes to um people main   doing their own maintenance on their own side of  things um the other issue is that's that's coming   up is the issue of purpose um we put out a little  survey it's still open I'm going to leave it open   for a while um probably until right before the  next meeting of the culture and Leisure Services   Board um so that they can sit down and kind  of see what the the feedback has been so far   but there's there's mixed feelings about what  purpose the garden serves or has the capacity   to serve for the larger Community right now our  participation level is six six six gardeners so   if the facilities in need of clearly as you  can see from the picture is a lot of love and   now that you have the construction of a car wash  immediately adjacent there's the the idea and the   need to make necessary updates and upgrades to the  Garden has been kind of lingering in the budget   for a few years but now our situation has changed  and before if if it was my property before I sunk   a bunch of money into reprogramming and reworking  the garden and improving it in its current space I   really want to see the actual day-to-day impact  of that car wash when it's functioning um I've   already seen the impact of the construction  process on the garden um I hope everybody's   washing their vegetables after that big cloud  of concrete dust the past couple weeks um so uh   I think that uh this one we've got it programmed  for this upcoming fiscal year but it may be um it   may behoove us to push it out from there and take  our time see what the community wants to do with   it see what our engagement uh and and our interest  level is with some maybe proposed changes as you   know driven by Community feedback um maybe we we  put a couple little garden patches in in different   locations so it's not a single location there's a  lot of different options to consider um but as it   sits now it needs it needs to be addressed and and  we don't really have a clear path forward on that   so we're going to look to you for a little input  on that as we go forward and that location if   you really look at that location now I mean you're  going on the highway right and there it is and now   it's got a car wash next to it when Molly mentions  maybe alternate locations or whatever I mean just   put that picture in your head you're gardening  and there it is along the highway and there's   the there's the car wash and it just doesn't seem  like it's in a good place right now Tex yeah it's   it's just not when you Garden you want your mind  to be peaceful and you're GNA have car was yeah   um I'm intimately involved in that Garden space  um my wife enjoys it looks forward to it but now   with the car wash there um I don't allow her to  go up there without me because one you can't see   from the road what's going on back there um two  there's a lot of dust and a lot of trash being   thrown over into the garden space from the car  wash construction but you know that's going to   happen um I think like Molly said I think we need  to push it out another year and uh see what other   spaces might be available to us uh there could be  things in the future we not we're not thinking of   right now um but there could be possibilities  but I I I don't know that sinking $90,000 into   that space is worth while uh particularly with  the the amount of participation and the actual   yield you can get out of that space it doesn't  serve much of a purpose other than a hobby so   yeah I live on that street and people it used to  be occupied all the time and garden was beautiful   now I I don't see anybody there or very early  sorry but I mean it's not utilized as much as   it used to be um some of the the other staff that  were a little more involved with it at the time   um I I remember a considerable amount of energy  that went behind it and we had a council member   at the time that uh donated their annual Council U  salary Sal um to to help get it off the ground and   the the comment that kind of came up in some of  our director's meetings was well then it was a new   toy it's not a new toy anymore so the people that  are invested in it currently those those people   are invested in it but the uh amount of people  that we get that either abandon the beds or they   travel so much they're not able to maintain them  it's it's falling on staff and that was not the   intent of the the program and now we're looking  at um you know if we want to keep this going it   it needs to make sense yeah my comments I it was  council member MC I remember when they launched   it and he did the big check you know it was kind  of I remember um rest in peace Jerry Samson came   in that same day with another big TR check and  Jerry's was a lot bigger but what it was a very   sweet very awesome Vision that I think he had was  hey to launch it and I do remember the enthusiasm   around it and I did like where it was because  a lot of the um you know single family lots in   Harbor height it's got a little bit more space but  when you get into some of the riverfront beautiful   the views over there on the on the Lagoon side  folks don't have the space as much and I know   we know there's a lot of kids back there too and I  love the idea of getting them involved but to keep   community garden going I feel very passionate  about continuing I think that was done out of   a part of Charity and uh and I would be agreed  on seeking this amount of money into it this   year but I would like to see um maybe just it's  a great time to take a step back and to say other   locations what are some other successful programs  um and look at what other communities are doing   to help access on the east side of A1A as well  um not one or the other I think in around Cape   viewer is great opportunities I've thought about  around mailboxes is another place that one your   shared mailboxes you got this big easement and  it's like you go every day to check your mail you   know perfect little twoot by 6 foot uh standing  planner box um and and perhaps we can I don't   want it to it's inactive right now if I understand  because the construction moderately active just   wash your veggies yeah um yeah spring of the  year it should be rocking right now February   you know the the plants that are right behind like  literally because the front part is not blocked by   the the North End of the garden is not blocked by  the the car wash it's mainly the South part and   that's where like the most beautiful tomato plants  are thank you I will um and I'd love to learn more   I've never participated in it but I was always  excited about it and I grow stuff in my backyard   and stuff and so I always thought it was fantastic  and always wanted to expand it but I do agree that   is becoming a slip Del of that property and the  that new use is a concern so maybe closer to   the Lagoon a quieter Place back there we can find  well I I think if we found several places around   the city that are underutilized or something we  can take advantage of that uh more people might   participate if it is closer to their neighborhoods  um I mean it's right there on A1A U so and right   now there's nowhere to park if you wanted to get  there so I know my wife was there this morning   but she was supposed to pick the broccoli so  hopefully she did Mr Mayor it's awesome well   there'll be a vacuum there soon you could vacuum  up your tomatoes and yeah even the um the current   design of the um the playground project which is  almost done out there um I actually shortened the   playground space in anticipation of expanding the  garden into the area that is now behind the car   wash May um yes I I was a participant when it  first started and I grew some awesome tomatoes   out there but um it is getting squeezed out and it  it doesn't it's not um in a good place right now   I had talked to Todd and Dave Dicky a while back  about the lot next to Wagner Park is up for sale   Again by by the owners and I thought that would  be a great place to expand a community garden   and maybe a little um playground for that part  of the area on North Atlantic there is nothing   up there as far as playgrounds or or a community  gu uh garden and there's a lot of there's condos   there there's mobile home parks there's people  that live in town homes that don't have space   to grow it might be it is a low area like I  was talking I don't know how much it would   if we would have to put more into it but that's  something I think we should look into for for a   a location and then the part that's what's there  now at the Garden if we took all that out I think   that long narrow space would be a great dog  run for The Rovers West that you have I me to be yeah and I've got an update on rivers west  coming up too so that can kind of add to your   thought process yeah that lot on um North Atlantic  would be you know it's in front of the oldest   neighborhood in the city and there's lots of new  kids in in Harbor Heights now and it would be an   ideal area to look into anyway could we just add  that spot with the existing today which sounds   like it's becoming not a great spot and maybe any  other ones you have ideas and say you're are five   yeah candidates 10 20 and maybe we don't get  it so big it's maybe it's one Bucks you know   spread them out a little bit but I think knowing  through that brings new challenges and you know   what is the city's role with it you maybe it's  not as heavy as it is today uh it's more about   you know the program and the management but  I would be uh that would be a good next step   is to find all the the sites and the fellow  the gardeners um Paula and your wife I'm sure   that they've oh she tells me okay well thank you  one one of the big issues with that Park is that   it's it's covered by trees and you get all these  leaves down in there all the time time and where   do you go with them I mean I've brought a leaf  blower out there several times and tried to blow   them away but where do you where do you blow them  where where do you where do you send in the car wash that's why they yeah you you blow them into  a pile and then they blow right back out so they   they have it but it doesn't and the shading  isn't always great too but yeah well we all   have our little green thumbs up here yes thank  you is this a consensus though that I'm hearing   that Todd did we move this thing mayor we move  this out a year that's what I'm hearing yeah   I could we do that could we do that because  because we will adjust that though anything   funding I would think that just identifying  some sites in the short run right would be a   good step but nothing I think so we'll show  it in the budget as this but we'll just move   move it out a here yes I don't think there's  any Capital Improvement needs okay thank you   thank you mayor if there's no more discussion  we can move on we're about two-thirds of the   way through here just being mindful of everyone's  time uh next one is Jim Court dividers all right   so this one um not really new uh it it was in  the uh budget for the previous year except for   the fact that it was planned for 2425 so it's not  new it's just we' finally reached the point where   we're ready to move forward with that with your  blessing um these dividers are definitely a um a   creature comfort for the facility they had been  discussed uh when we were in the um the initial   planning phases but they didn't end up being  part of the final project so the dividers for   the gymnasium will allow for multiple programs  and types of users to utilize different spaces   of the gymnasium without necessarily interfering  with one another and they will also allow fewer   interruptions for drop Inplay opportunities for  um uh regular day-to-day visitors um during our   summer camp programs where participants cannot  and really should not intermingle with the   general public this can provide a separation of  the space so that if it's a rainy day the kids   aren't forced to just watch movies and people can  still come in and utilize their portion of the gym any comments on this one thank you okay moving  on um next one gwood crossover and Memorial pvers   right this one's another challenge and that's  why we're bringing it to you so this one also   came directly from Community feedback um as  a solution to a known and regularly reported   program uh or problem the walkway approaching  the city's crossover that's located just north   of canabal Sands is unfortunately now known  in the neighborhood as Cemetery row and the   this is a cumulative result of a now discontinued  commemorative tree and bench program the previous   memorials that we used um for commemorative  purposes throughout the city were basically   a bronze plaque affixed to a small block of  concrete um these have inherent challenges um   concrete sinks especially little blocks of it  the uh bronze doesn't always do so good with   our salt environment so it requires regular  maintenance and the justification for this   project is pretty clearly outlined in the CIP um  the problem that you don't probably or that you   aren't probably aware of is how the issues on this  property regarding these existing memorials have   escalated over the years and um in addition to uh  the debris and what eventually you know it starts   as flow plastic flowers but then becomes litter  um and it's left behind by those leaving gifts or   flowers on the memorials themselves we now have a  rogue marker that someone has installed themselves   um the program itself was discontinued in 2021  because it became unsustainable the lead times   to get benches varied dramatically by the day  the prices to the benches would sometimes go up   um after the person had already made the payment  to the city so then the city was stuck holding the   the the remainder of the bill for the memorial  benches um so we're currently working with the   city attorney to um find the best way to address  uh especially the Rogue memorial marker that was   installed but the alternative program which is  the pavers that we've kind of been discussing   on and off throughout uh the Veterans Memorial  Park project we've got pavers that are in the   in front of the uh Community Center and throughout  that space we have pavers that are throughout the   front area of the um Cape Center and also in the  plaza so we have another option but um the issue   that we have in this particular space um might not  it might require us to have kind of a retroactive   component to address the problems on this premise  specifically um and those are all issues that just   relate to how the previous program was run and  how it's kind of you know if you hear the phrase   it hasn't aged well this isn't aging well um so  before I go into any um any further description   of this uh and and to help you guys in your um  discussion with this very rarely do you get to   see Molly put on her anthropology archaeology  hat normally you see me doing parks and rck   and normally you see me do on websites and social  media but at the end of the day one of my absolute   Specialties is Cemetery preservation and uh  Mortuary culture and one of the things that   a lot of people don't really realize because  it's not something that people even like to   think about every day is that this city does not  have a cemetery um we used to have one it's now   actually behind the the gate up at the um uh space  force station um that is Cape Canaveral Community   Cemetery uh it is obviously no longer active the  last person that went in there was a lady who got   lucky that her husband went in first because she  passed away after the government had already taken   over that property and they allowed her to be  buried with her husband um but beyond that um in   in in my realm and there's actually an academic  book published on it called the last great   necessity and that is in reference to cemeteries  it's the last the last piece of infrastructure   that any of us will ever need and um it's a fact  of life that the living grieve for the dead um   whether you're a penguin that lost your lifemate  or a person it's a process with known steps and   part of our particular culture specifically  is the concept of a final resting place and as   acceptable Mortuary Customs have changed over  the years and a lot of different um religious   denominations have loosened their restrictions on  uh cremation and other alternative burial um or   end of life processes the grieving process that is  inherited in our culture and all the elements that   are within that have not not caught up with our  current practices and the realities so for that   reason you see an increased frequency of Memorial  bumper stickers you see t-shirts and there's also   an increased demand for alternative Memorial  infrastructure in public places because some   PE people still want that place to go that place  to remember even if the person isn't there they   still need that as part of their their purview  so this is not a need um that will go away in   this community for the foreseeable future and the  changes the challenges created on this property by   the previous program will not go away without  intervention so that is why I've um proposed   expanding what we were already planning for other  areas to address the issues for the Neighbors in   that area that are lodging the complaints and that  were the ones that even brought the um installed   uh personal marker to our attention so the program  would have U pavers that are um Memorial pavers   that are paid for by the residents and installed  by the city and maintain in perpetuity in this   same space yes um the uh difference to that for  this particular one is that what I'm proposing   is that for the existing memorials that are along  that road that the city cover a replacement as a   pav for those memorials that are in bad repair and  sinking and create the look of the cemetery that   the neighbors are complaining are we talking 10  20 50 100 how many there's like 15 okay and what   is the cost of a memorial paper um our cost would  probably be in the 50 to $60 range okay but there   still have to be some prep of the space done to  prepare the base imagine um well the the program   that we're going to use is we don't we're not  purchasing special papers that have to go off   somewhere to be engraved and then be in installed  what we're using is similar to what's actually   used in cemeteries today you say you have a stone  that's marked for prepared for two people one   person might pass before the other once that stone  is set that first person's name and and and dates   and respective information's already engraved they  don't remove that stone to to bring in the second   person they come out and they etch it there and  that's uh the the vendor that we're looking at   for that I forget the name off the top of my head  but they are currently uh working with um the uh   Cape can Lighthouse foundation and they come out  and they do theirs you mentioned there there are   legal issues to work through with removing other  markers well I I wouldn't I wanted Anthony's   guidance on what to do with the one that somebody  put there by themselves um because they literally   brought out concrete and everything um and then  uh what if anything we needed to do in the long   term um because nothing in the previous paperwork  that that I was privy to because obviously this   this program predates me um is if there was any  guarantees within those previous ones for care   and perpetuity okay so the the the memorial  paper program could go forward without having   to necessarily deal with the removal of other  markers and other things at this at this time   they can both coexist for the time being for the  time being but the we would need to really um we   would need to put out signage and we would need  to uh a actively and if not aggressively enforce   the fact that people cannot leave things out on  public property that are going to be blown into   the ocean blown into the street blown into the  storm water system um some people have gone so   far as to hang lights in the trees so um say  that again to do what some people have gone   so far as to hang lights in the trees so um it's  it's really just about controlling our space and   and making the the neighborhood look the way that  the neighbors want it nobody in that area wanted   to move next door to a cemetery otherwise they  probably would have picked somewhere else and   the complaints that we get are are weekly when it  comes to that thank you Mary that's a heavy very   heavy CIP item um but yeah comments um I I could  talk more on it and I see mayor P your hand yes I   um would like to talk about it um we planted  a tree for my brother out there sorry and a   little Memorial and it's important for us to have  someplace to go on his birthday or whatever and um   I think to remove them would be terrible um I mean  we've always planted like plants that go in the   ground we also paid for the tree and all those  people that have trees in there paid for those   trees oh the trees wouldn't go anywhere just the  just the blocks pay for the markers you know um   and I understand the neighbors saying you know  some people get a little crazy gy and whatever   lights in the trees and things like that but um  it is important to our family to have someplace   to go to um and like you said there is no Cemetery  in cap Cano um and it's a hard issue uh I just   think that going in and removing the plaques and  the things that we've paid for would be awful um   maybe the ones that are there are grandfathered  in with certain restrictions on you can't you   know put plastic flowers and all that and then  moving forward or do the the uh bricks but no this is north of Canaveral Sands but south of  Royal Mansions it's right by yeah Royal mansions   and Canal SS it's one of the Crossovers that  doesn't have a parking area and there's a big   um the the landmark for me where I know I have  to pull over is the big peacock B crack down   there well and as someone that lives near there  I know exactly what you're talking about with   the one that has the frame around it which I  asked about that because my mother passed away   suddenly in 20122 and I asked the person that put  that there because we have have a temporary stone   at my mother's grave site because I thought well  this looks great for hers and all of this she she   literally um has said you know she told me about  the little frame but I know of two of those out   there that have remains in them that's not legal  now they're cremated obviously but we've switched   from having a memorial beachwalk to people  doing what they do no remains of my no and   I'm not talking about yours yeah you back when it  started back in the day there were very few there   and it was people that had been in this area a  long time that their families were from the area   and all of this now it's grown to more than that  and without the memorial stone program people are   just like oh it's okay I guess or however they  get to that conclusion and it has become actually   I was trying to get a reservation out there for 6  feet under and 5 foot s for when I hit by the Des   because I've been in the area a long time but  I don't want to do the do it the that way the   problem is just like you're saying Molly is that  this there are requirements for cemeteries you   have to have parking there are other requirements  you and I had talked at one point about the fact   that that's a entirely um regulated industry and  so we have to be cautious about how we handle this   so I think and one thing I loved was the the  memorial papers over in manate park you know   there were benches that were uh donated I believe  just like you're saying because I don't get to go   to where my mother is um I believe that you do  need a place to be able to go to feel a sense   of being with that person or or being able to be  near them um so I absolutely agree with that I   think it's gotten it's grown from its original  intent but yes I mean I know because I've seen   and spoken to people that have scattered remains  out there so now we're talking about a different thing well no I mean we're talking about a  different thing when we look at what are we   going to do with it because now you really we  really have remains there well I know when we   when we did it Gustavo was here and we had  to contact Gustavo he told us we wanted to   be there yeah and there was like one or two  more spaces left for a tree and um it had we   had to fill out an application we had to turn in  the money whatever and buy the tree there was a   whole process so now you're saying that people  are just going out there and one person in 2022   and I I looked up the um the obituary of the uh  woman named and it literally listed her entire   family so I'm pretty sure we can narrow down  who actually physically installed it but yes   they they completely circumvented City staff  and installed memorial marker on their own at   their own expense on city property in concrete  we approach that with Molly iously I'm sorry   I didn't mean you're talking pavers like for  sidewalks correct doing yes like what you the   what you saw when you walked in yeah because  um maybe I'm wrong but when one time we had a   presentation about the Civic Hub they talked  about putting markers down and people having   um you know for that particular reason or for  whatever reason so why couldn't we do dedicate   you know different markers and then have benches  incorporated into the Civic Hub land that's I mean   they that's the place that would be just we'd have  plenty of room to do the sidewalks so it's just   a thought because I think they did mention doing  dedications pavers the Friday Fest area could be   pavers and there could be more Memorial pavers  among them and there's Pavers at almost every   location and all the new projects that we have so  if if you you or your loved one had a particular   affinity for Friday Fest you could be out there or  you could if you liked you know the splash pad you   could be right there you could be at the splash  pad forever what what I mean it if somebody's   put something on city property without permission  isn't there a way to I mean how do we I I think I   think that's a good question but really this is  about funding the uh the papers and I think we   can deal with that as a secondary issue but I  just the people that went did the process and   went the right way should be able to stay and then  move forward for this I yeah I well I think that   the removal is largely you know is is weighing  what what we heard but it can coexist she said   yeah you you can coexist with with signage and  enforcement um with the trees as is today yeah I   wouldn't propose removing the trees I would just  REM propose removing the the the concrete blocks   they sink they become um unsightly after a little  while because of the the environment and they do   require maintenance that's that's the 10 to 15  concrete blocks with the bronze plaque we would   replace those with Memorial papers they're all  over the city in different angles because they   sink but some of those actually have photos of  the loved ones on them I think preserving any   tree that's been dedicated through the process  with the plaque is very important agreed for and   now the question is what happens in you know  with the trees live right because I think we   BR into other issues where trees in the library  have been removed that were dedicated do we have   a responsibility you to replant that tree um so  yep I think we should probably move on past this   one but I certainly see the challenge did not  know about that and um whatever resources you   I think we need to be able to make it to respond  to that issue and also hopefully figure out ways   to prevent I know that's what you're after it's  sounds it's kind of creeped up and everyone here   I sense cares about being responsible and ethical  and and just in everything we do here so yeah we   all carry that burden with us it's a tough is  yeah but we're ready to move on Molly for so   Rover space West please yes much happier topic if  you've ever been to our dog park it's the happiest   place in town um one of my favorite things and  when I come in in the morning is watching little   happy pups drag their owners to the dog park um um  so in saying that uh one of the things that um uh   since I became director of this department I've  been trying to take some really critical looks   at all of our properties and identify strengths  and weaknesses and opportunities for improvement   and one of the the areas of improvement if you  um venture out to Patriots Park which I'm sure   you guys are all going to do soon if you haven't  already at least to check out the garden situation   or or the the new playground that we've installed  um you'll notice that there's one big strip of   land over on the West Side that's completely  undeveloped um you've got some oak tree shade   there um there is a a seasonal issue with uh  vagrancy and unauthorized after hours use of   the park um and there's not a whole lot you can  do with that space with the existing tree canopy   that's there but one opportunity that we have um  and anytime I visit any of our Parks particularly   on the west side of town there's always somebody  with a dog off leash no matter what and once again   if they're going to do it I'd rather give them  the place to do it so that there's not as many   excuses or incidents or anything like that um one  of the the day I got the idea for Rover space West   which was actually proposed um for this upcoming  fiscal year but it appeared in the pre previous   year's budget as you know a future thought um  I approached one lady that was in there and um   I said did are you aware that you know the city  does have an offleash Park that you're you know   it's free to use and you can take your dog there  and her excuse for using Patriots instead was   that she was pregnant and I'm not sure Beyond uh  convenience the ability to maybe get over there   um but it it brought to my attention the fact that  it's not as easy to get across A1A with your dog   especially if you're walking and there's a need  for something over there an offleash opportunity   as you do just like the garden thing you do have  a bunch of condos there's not a lot of open space   um and uh this could um be easily facilitated  to to almost mirror the one over here or um as   uh mayor protm Kellum brought up we could even  um as this one over here has an area for large   dogs and small dogs we could possibly use part of  the space that's behind the um the the car wash   as one of those sizes and have accessible spaces  on either side of the park um one of the the big   things that we pushed for with the develop with  the Redevelopment of the playground equipment is   increased accessibility if you go out there if  you went out there six months ago you would have   saw a sand pit with a bunch of uh railroad ties um  kind of halfhazard most of them have sank over the   years and it was not accessible to to anybody in  an ADA capacity whatsoever sand is not considered   an accessible surface for obvious reasons but um  the processed playground mulch is so one of the   things I did with the design out there is that  instead of instead of having the playground area   chopped up into multiple areas multiple individual  spaces I created one big accessible space so   whether you're a a parent or a grandparent that  has a Mobility device or whether you're a child   that has a Mobility device you have access to the  entire space and so in saying that the um having   a an opportunity for a dog park there would could  potentially serve as a a nice little accessory to   an accessible playground because we did install  multiple accessible equipment features in the   existing or new park so there's a lot of potential  there um but it'll be on Council to to decide what goes thank you any other comments on that one  thank you mayor moving on Molly I believe this   is your last one is the tenants courts res  surfacing it's over already all right so the   tennis court resurfacing this one is another one  that's been on the books for a couple years and   um we've finally gotten around to uh to the  fiscal year that it was budgeted for and um   what I've done with this is if you um with all  of the Abundant time you have on your hands um if you pull up the Nancy Hansen Recreation Complex  on either The Bard County property appraiser site   or Google Maps Google Earth either either of those  programs um have a little slide roll where you can   actually move the date of the satellite image  and one of the things that you will see appear   and disappear frequently is a depression on court  number five uh the last time these courts were uh   resurfaced was in 2016 I remember the project I  actually think I processed the purchase order for   it I was a secretary in the department at that  time and uh one of the things that was a known   issue when they went to do the resurfacing  was this um problematic depression in court   number five so um if you go out there today or  you pull up Google Maps today you'll see that   the depression on court number five is back and  what's interesting is that when Todd and I were   working on this uh CIP we took the calendar on  the satellite image back to 2016 and you saw the   fresh bright paint of the brand new resurfacing  when we slid it to 2017 so less than one year   the shadow came back so it had already started to  SN so uh the previous CIP um that was created for   this cited $40,000 um we got some estimates in and  the $440,000 would still cover the resurfacing but   it did not address anything to do with the  depression so if we moved forward with that   within a year we would have another depression  and the problem with the depression is that it   continues to sink and when you have a a playable  surface where people are often walking backwards   to uh to to play the game it could result in  a trip Hazard if it continues to sink so um we   had a company come out and give us a kind of a a a  ballpark if you will if we were going to actually   do the work to repair what was underneath um  which will require some uh obviously removal   of that portion of the Court some excavation  to address whatever's under there um and then   recompaction of the surface and then repouring  and then the resurfacing so um with how much   facility how much use this facility gets um I've  always been of the mindset to repair it once and   repair it right um it's not a critical issue um  because I understand the difference between you   know people's houses flooding and you know smooth  tennis courts but uh if we don't address what's   underneath we will constantly have a court that  has a problem and while we don't exactly know   what it is uh there's any number of things it  could be that there was was a giant tree there   and they just cut it down and ground the root  and left the the rest of it that to Decay that   can cause that kind of a thing also there could  be perhaps there was a well at some point that   maybe it's just the head is leaking underneath  there you don't know till you go to explore it so   obviously one of the first things we think about  is well we're talking about storm water at the   Civic Hub and there's going to be a lot of Earth  moving equipment out there could this or should   this be time to be part of that and the answer is  it could be um what we've told kimley horn is we   don't want to Target concrete or trees for storm  water on the Civic Hub but if it makes sense to   do it in this case where tennis court number five  is we could that's the one that's on the southeast   of the park so the intersection of pointsa and  Filmore closest to that if there's storm water   already happening as part of the Civic Hub and  it is in fill more in the point set of areas   then it could make sense to tie it into that  for only for that reason so uh we're keeping   an open mind to that but if we don't do that we  would want to have the Standalone item in the CIP great thank you Council any comments on this one back to tennis and pickle ball well theory is the hole  and the pick where were the pickle Ballers the   yeah so I think on this one we're going to  get more and better information coming out   of the council meeting uh in April with kimley  horn and that'll help us make some decisions   on this one so I think it's probably all  we need to say about this one for now if   we're ready to move on and we've got um June  isn't here she's uh dealing with a loss of a   loved one so Jessica is here and Dave Jessica  you want to come or do you want to send Dave   up need to take a a a brief break that's  been a long continuous thank you Molly I   don't if you don't mind I know y'all have  been patient waiting let's try it's 5:30   on the dot try to get back in five 10 minutes  whatever to be back in yes sir and they only have e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e yeah e e alrighty it is 5:45 pm. we just  returned back from another brief   break as we wrapped up culture  and Leisure Services we are now   rolling into public works services our  city manager was getting us kicked off here yes so this is an update one crossover  annually and you can see here the next five   years are kind of mapped out based on priority  so we're starting with Harbor Heights Washington   Johnson Tyler Madison um every year our IM  Department like inspects them um we expect the   slope whether it's deteriorating we also work with  fdp to see you know if there's any ADA compliance   that needs to be met um so yeah so next year or  starting next year 24 25 we're going to do haror   Heights and that that would actually be sorry that  would actually be like kind of phase two of Harbor   Heights Harbor Heights is a huge long pathway so  the crossover we initially put in was at our Max   limit that year that's all we could do um we  went ahead and spent some a smaller amount of   money trying to put those MIM mats in recently  which got vandalized so since then we've been   approached with trying to get another like harder  uh piece of infrastructure in there that wouldn't   be vandalized as much and we were thinking we'd  bump um phase two of Harbor Heights into this   particular uh time frame so that we could finish  that one off completely so it's all basically the   same age because it's the the initial part that  we did is only just a couple years old I have a   question yes um I live in Harbor Heights so I know  Harbor Heights um what it did have the plastic um   and it was very slippery when it was wet and then  you guys changed it to the Moby mat that's correct   yes we we changed it we initially put the uh the  plastic down because that was the only thing that   would fit in with our budget to do it at the  time um and we were also trying a new product   which we were told was going to last a long time  unfortunately it didn't it degraded in the sun   and the environment out there so when we removed  it we had to come up with something else that we   could put down there um maybe M mats have work  because they work so well out on the beach and   they've been great out on the beach for years  and years but when we put them in some of the   residents didn't like it and they ended up getting  vandalized a big portion was stolen so now we got   to look at something a little bit harder than  that it wouldn't be vandalized as much but it   won't be plastic and slippery it would be the  same material as the decking that's already on   the crossover just be like one a lot longer  slope that goes all the way down down to the   parking lot basically with a couple of Landings we  couldn't do it all in one giant slope we but it's   150 foot section and that's actually longer than  the initial section that was put in so um yeah the   um the just the the materials alone when I when I  pric them out is $22,000 in materials just to put   that section in so um when you factor everything  in plus inflation prob going to be closer to the   34 which is what we're trying to bump it up to  to to make the difference for inflation from what   we used to pay for them now we have to thank you  uh David yes uh I met with a couple of residents   out there just after the MIM mat was stolen yes  which amazed me that they took that much of it   but um and they were asking about a more gradual  in decline because I think there was a couple of   people that had uh mobility issues that just  wanted to get out to that crossover area but   you were talking about having a gradual slope to  a couple of Landings yes SL to Landing to a slope   to Landing okay so the the slope won't be that  steep no it wouldn't be that steep okay would   be that sleep in fact we would even go back we  would have to go back a little bit further and   redo some of the side to make the slopes all match  up properly okay that's great thank you I got just   a couple of questions on this one if you don't  um the that's pretty much all just material cost   because it's our team going to be doing it that's  correct you we like that way is it work well for   us inh house way that I've known since been since  I've been here we used to have the inmates help   us out a lot with that so now we're bured a lot  with it with my team but that's how we manage it   we we do sort of it basically just extends the  amount of time that we're doing it now a little   bit but we try to do it ourselves in that makes  sense have we ever gotten a quote to get it I'm   just talking openly here go ahead and do that and  see what their pricing would be like well at a   minimum it would help us understand the avoided  cost I mean the time of our team as cost but   it's like doing stuff around your house it takes a  little longer like you said but you end up getting   it done so I think my general comments are this  is very important to our community the beach is the probably number one amenity physical  environmental that we have it's also the   place where people stand to watch launches  so that experience is of elabor ated on in   the past is really important from the furthest  parking spot at a beach entrance I think we have   what about 20 20 Harbor Heights just Citywide  I think 20 oh no I'm sorry 20 Beach entrances   17 17 thank you 1 and one of them doesn't have  Park The Ridge one we were okay there's 16 with   parking and they're all different parking spaces  like Harrison has a lot more than a lot of them   yes um but that that experience uh and I know  we got some private property sometimes that goes   through there is we've seen over 10 years all the  improvements happen with the seots and we've just   made a decision on Filmore I think to really  look at trimming sea grapes which will change   you know things but here when you were talking  about hey we did what we had within our budget   I just want the council to know that if we went  anywhere I think as far as return on investment   I think this is really important and um I hope to  see us continue my question in last is when we're   doing for example Harbor Heights the second  half of that one but like Washington Avenue   is the next one for next year how long are they  lasting was that Washington Avenue when replaced   about 10 years one of the oldest ones okay I  don't know when they were originally put in   to be honest um but they have lasted a long time  uh with the new track stacking Lumber Rock which   we use actually um all the ones that we put in  since I've been here in the seven years are like   they're spotless they're completely intact they  have no issues with them U if we do have issues   it's with the wooden components of unfortunately  so the the decking itself a really really long   time recycled product as well um I don't know the  actual term around are they all wood though the   walking I guess certain like it has lasted very  well and I remember when it was wood prior you   just splinters and you know the maintenance of it  yes but we were doing like two a year are they all   to the new recycled material or do we still have  some that are um there's some older TRX material   that's been used I I we don't have an actual like  wooden one at all anymore there's wooden stringers   there's wooden posts but all the decking is now  composite of some sort that was Washington are   we removing that decking and replacing it with  new decking it would be it would be you have to   actually remove everything because everything all  the stringers underneath they completely rotten as   well too okay so it's it's a complete Redo for  each one of these things do them thank you but   you can't do composite stringers you still have to  do the heavy wood stringers yeah still have to do   the heavy wood stringers but um it's mostly the  decking that takes the big hit the the stringers   themselves last a long time like the composite  on Washington if you go up on there the decking   itself is not too bad it's a little bit B here  and there but it's literally it's the posts and   the stringers underneath that are rotting away so  that's the re that one afterwards and we just sort   of rotate through them taking the worst ones and  none of these are necessarily set in stone they're   suggested because of age of them andity of at  the time one may age a little bit quicker than   the next one three years down line from that we  might have an issue with one we have to sort of   flipflop we try to do one thank you that was all I  had in Council I've already ran into several times   on some of the boardwalks golf carts and some of  them were bowing that deck strikes out so um as   we yeah I actually and I will say this thank  you Commander kek because I called some in on   one of those and boy y'all were there to find that  person uh because it was six seated golf cart and   if you're out on the beach in certain entrances if  they can come across with a golf cart and they're   new here and visiting this area they're trying  it in a lot of cases not trying it they are doing it no not all of them like the one between um  Canaveral Sands and Roy Mansions is completely   flat and literally you see tracks all the  time from people on golf carts s flying   in down there they'll take off and head up  to Sherry down so um that one is starting   to Bow a little bit because of the weight  of the golf cart so any of those that are   flat we're going to have to keep an eye  on because we've allowed golf carts and   now they're using them using Ford this is  true were you see that happening Dave could   you look for a strategic placement for a Ballard  absolutely that would prevent that traffic thank you woohooo spring break mayor if there's nothing  else on the Crossovers good we have the update on   the pump enclosure structures probably need for  this one as well um right now we are about 20%   complete behind schedule a little bit which Tim  will be able to elaborate on um but this project   was to enclose partially all of our pumps um our  generator our Global Pump um any type of structure   that we had any piece equipment that we had that  was outside to preserve it and I know that it's   held up a little bit for sub Ms and engineer join  like I said can give a better upate yeah so what   happened with this one is that we got the the uh  as you can see in the picture we got the uh bins   done and then we got the SO2 building I'd say  about 90% done uh they're they're engineering   a door on there and uh making some fixes on it  the reason why we got behind on this srf project   uh was due to not knowing what was underground  so when they started digging to put the padding   in the pads uh they found a lot of pipes and uh  unforeseen utilities um um so the engineers had   to kind at that point you have to go back to the  drawing board and you have to start re-engineering   and uh when it comes to weight loads of you know  the roofs and everything else that's going around   these pumps so that's where we're at now that's  why it's really really why it's this far behind um   I did want to mention though that there is in the  budget 1.56 in there um some of that I actually   pulled this over to this fiscal year we might  end end up spending some of it this fiscal year   but as of now the contractor has not been back on  site to do any work so there will be no pay apps   being you know paid um at this time until they  start work up again and uh until the engineers   can get what they wanting to get done um and get  it uh approved with the permits being pulled and   everything else with the city then um I'm not  we're unsure of when this is going to get back   started again so you let it sit like that too long  the pickle Ballers will be coming to take that ever it start I mean kind of a racket ball feel  to it at least but yeah okay thank you for that   update I it in the final the is it'll be a roof  structure over it to cover the pumps or is it   like yeah so what it is it's uh corrugated  steel or aluminum mind you real heavy thick   gauge um and then you're going to have uh of  course your structure of your um your beams and   your uh how do I say it I'm trying to think of  how to say it the walls are going to be on one   side it's going to be open but then the rest  of it I believe goes up leav yeah two sides sides oh cool so that way if we do need  to remove a pump or any kind of uh you   know know piece of equipment piece of  equipment we could just go in there   with the backo and pull it right out so  looks like our three tennis courts there   why do we he those are B why not just  use those as tennis cours those are full right sorry they're full you guys  got to go before parks and W next time all right if there's no questions mayor  we ready to move on I'm good to go next one is   sanitary sewer G mapping this is just another  update um so this year so last fiscal year we   got these all of our sewer Ms and the manholes  identified and we got all the diameters of the   pipes and the conditions and now the next phase  which will happen right now um we are having   tetch do a proposal so they can go in and CCTV  all of those lines and locate our laterals so   I have the proposal it needs to get approved  um by on their end on tetr Tech's end and then   we'll we will go to bid for that um and tetr will  choose um a company to come in and do that CCTV   and this is part of a FD requirement correct  this is part of the Senate Bill 712 that was passed this relates to the other GIS mapping we  did is this the same this one is waste water the   other one was storm water okay thank you and this  one is Wastewater and price funded both state and   both state mandates require thank you and mayor  if there's no other questions on that not for me   Council good thank you new bucket [Music] truck  all right um so this next one's for a new bucket   truck um the city's outgrown the bucket truck that  we already have uh it's a one that we originally   have and we're still using is a 2006 it's recently  required quite a heavy um repair to it and we're   expecting more of that as it ages a little bit  more but at the same time it's now that it's been   repaired it's a good piece but we can't reach  the infrastructure that we have now in the city   the buildings have grown we have a flag pole out  here in the front that we can't get to the top of   we've already have to repair that once um The  Clock Tower we we've had um a company that had   to come out and repair the gutters up there just  because we couldn't reach it safely um so what   we're proposing is a larger bucket truck one that  will reach everything and be used in unison with   the one that's already existing we keep them both  for uh back up what is the height of the one that   we youing it roughly that's about 35t right now  and this one will be the same or higher this one is 59 I think it was it was just under 60t pruning Palms I've seen y'all I've seen  decorating Christmas lights yeah actually um   decorating Palms oh this one the flag pole  sorry I wrote this all down before uh flight   P 55 ft the reach on this one's 59t so uh should  reach everything that we have to get to like the   C5 building there's a couple of lights on that  on the east side that we can't get to with the   bucket truck in the existing configuration um  coconut trees is another reason they've been   growing through the city through the years and  they require maintenance um we're going to start   up two times a year now just to make sure that we  get all those uh coconuts down so they don't blow   down in wind and create hazards for people but  now we're sub that workout to people who can reach   them so that's becoming an extra cost as well  for the city so we keep the other one operating   as much as we can it's operating well right now  it just doesn't reach what we needed to get okay   and this new one would extend our capabilities  um do we know what Coco Beach has what they I   don't actually know what maybe Natalie [Laughter]  knows you know know High it is Natalie we'd use   this I just thought I know well because you can  sh this may not be a good one to share from time   to time but it it is something that um I think  we would use Dave often I'm sorry no that was   it just the frequency of use and um I know I've  spoke to cooko beach in the past about we talked   about the be traker we've shared with them with  other things and so well the be trer yeah well   yeah but also when there's an emergency we're  always there to share or they're there to share   for us too yeah um Dave would you say in every  instance that you're aware of where we've had to   sub out to a company for a reach issue this would  this new one would take care of it yes in every   instance thank you thank you it's a good way to  look at it every time you pay for that and it's $260,000 uh yes it's it's quite a big hit but  um like I said the original one was bought in   2006 we've got pretty good mileage on  it now for the city yeah it went out   at a bad time last Christmas season yes  well everything goes down at a bad time   always it's only when you need it that it goes  down because that's when you find out about it   and mayor this has been on Dave's bucket  list for quite some time I just I'm sorry   I couldn't resist that I couldn't that was  quite a reach John quite a reach nice t very nice mayor if there's no questions on that we  can move on to uh City Hall air conditioning   replacement it's hard to believe these are  coming up on 10 years old these units we   need to cool off all right we you clear to  go on to this then yes yes please so this   next one is for um City here uh City Hall AC air  conditioning um uh replacement basically the uh   the ones that are up there are deteriorating at  such a rapid rate it's unbelievable um we spent   an awful lot of money on them over the past years  tens of thousands so far and U they have a 10year   lifespan so you know we're getting on close to  that and with the amount of deterioration we   want to sort of try and get this done as quick  as possible if if possible I know everybody who   comes in here enjoys the cool air when they're  in here so and this facility like our other   facilities we have an annual service contract so  that they're maintained properly in accordance   with good practice and the schedule maintenance  happens like clockwork and it's a good thing that   we have that because that's when we discover  these problems and they say you know there's   another coil gone down oh there's another evapor  there's another belt oh there's a motor went out   that's how we discover these things and we  do our best to keep up with it but I think   in probably the last five years Lisa we've  never had two perfectly functioning systems yet thank you wow I was wondering and all the  headaches and the buckets and the email updates   and so these units Dave will be sourced to have  more corrosion resistance than we currently have   is that correct is there any um I know that these  units need to breathe air and all but is there   anything because we live in this salty environment  that we could cover them with to help I don't know   about necessarily covering them but we do go up  and we rinse them off we've got a monthly schedule   for that so so that's part of our maintenance  schedule is doing that um covering them we   can look into it um but you also don't want to  restrict the air flow that's around them as well   too and they're built they're built specifically  to be in the environment some of these are are for   more corrosive sort of environments than others so  we're aiming definitely towards those on is that   corrosive protection provided by the vendor and  the reason I'm asking this I've got two 10e units   in the in a condo complex that are literally  falling apart after a few years uh one of my   vendors is now coating for corrosive purposes here  locally with a local vendor and so far those units   are by far out you know outpacing the others so I  was curious when you say the corrosive how are we   doing that well U at the moment the only thing we  do is rinse them down there's there's no codings   that we've been using but I'm definitely going  to look into that I can give you a vendor name   locally okay because literally those are turning  out a million times better than the ones that are   coming fromc excellent addition um city manager  can I give him the name of that going to ask you   please do so yes thank you very much you don't  need my permission by the way I want to make sure yeah and when we go to purchase these  we definitely we want to look we we want to   be the corrosive conscious on this and if we  have to pay more money for that not to spend   $60,000 in the first five years it' be well  worth it because I know that technology has   changed and um I believe they're making things  uh K that uh they they won't corrode in 10 years   and that and that's what I'm talking about  yeah it's a huge difference there's AIG and   there are some of them that have come out that  are milit that were military grade and they're   now offering them to the public to prevent  corrosion and they used it on bases and in   the Navy and all of these things but this I I  know for a fact I just spoke to a local vendor   recently on this and he is getting the equipment  and then he has a local vendor that's coding it   I just replaced mine this past summer and it  came ready to go coated it wasn't any third   party anything it was already for beach side  so and we can check with Southeast as well too   that's who we originally got some prices  through that's who's been doing some our   maintenance work for us on them um we can see  what their actual product is and if they have   codings on them or if we can code after those  as well too we're definitely going to look into and I and I got mine a couple of years ago  10year warranty coded for corrosive uh   from the manufacturer and it's falling to pieces  right now so we got to love that living in the   on the and Dave when you're checking on these  let's also keep in line that the lead times on   these these large units usually take more than  a year to get yes but this will make Lisa very happy mayor if there's no other questions we  can move on the biggest Economic Development   tool this state's ever seen is right here the  AC yeah it is um important but no I think my   only comment was the makeing model of the  are we getting the same one no I'm not I   wasn't happy with was this one from very  beginning it it was problematic um and I   don't want to mention brand names but we  were told to much corrosion we were told   by the service company that yeah this company has  a history of being problematic because the soft I   think it had a very nice at least online control  capability will you still have that if you want it that's nice that's great thank you all right yes sir thank  you mayor uh next one is City Hall office buildout   this is a repeat it was pushed back from last year  as um as says it's defin um it's from last year   got pushed back uh it's a city off City office  buildout to add four additional offices within   the existing two floors or second floor City  Hall to accommodate anticipated future needs   um like this like I was saying before the city  is growing and and we keep sort of running into   these little things where we need more space so  it's it's basically just looking into the future   and seeing if there's any places within City Hall  that we can build out and create more Office Space   we did find some areas that we can do it the  drawings were all done for it already and the   plans have been done it's just whether it wants  to be and we appreciate the the mayor um moved   downstairs in the last year so that enabled the  council member office to um be just one upstairs   so that former that vacancy created a space for  our new employees that helped tremendously as   we added our it manager thank you for that mayor  I hope you like it downstairs it's working thank   thank you yes and so this will help it also you  know we talked about no offices you know and so   I think today that L it's that larger room you've  exactly what we've talked about in the past and   being used today but it's not a productive work  environment it's still limited on how how many   people you could but four could essentially work  out of there is that the idea for or just not   people four separate offices is that three Lisa  I'm sorry if you're going to speak you're really   should be at the podium sorry well and I didn't  help because I looked at you and ask so thank you okay so the big area actually would fit  three offices and then we have the AL Cove   area um as you get off the elevator that would  have a wall built in the front and that would   be the fourth Office Space um so there would  be three in that big room and that Al Cove   area would be the fourth that we're talking  about now we currently have one employee in   that big room um and we have another employee  that's in the records repository room that it   would probably be scoped to go out somewhere and  then we would kind of rearrange uh storage area   for for that office that he is sitting in yeah  we we need more storage space upstairs for just   storage and that that space would be ideal for  it essentially we have an employee who's in a   closet kind of and they've got the space but  they're in the closet it's it's our storage   it's our records area yeah thank you there's no  windows yeah any comments just that was all I   had Council anything else no okay we can move on  then next one is I am building replacement Jessica Dave I think in 2015 so the building  the more we push it back it is becoming   a need it's it's in really rough shape  we store some equipment in there um it   used to house all of his team's offices  they had like little computer area and a   little break that is completely like ried  off it's just you can't even use that area anymore other than just we're gaining more  equipment as well too and it would be really   nice to be able to protect the equipment from  the environment like we're trying to protect   everything else from the environment um we have  two back hoses now where we used to just have one   um got the bucket truck if if we get a second one  that would go in there as well to um and if you've   been to our uh Public Works area you can see how  wedged and shoehorn we are in there at the moment   between you and I am um the existing building  that used to be the building if that was to be   torn down and replaced with a new building we  would make it a lot more usable space it would   be more Bay Area less office area sort of thing I  I think would be the way to go with it more space   to keep our our infrastructure equipment out of  the elements as much as possible safe and if you   haven't been out there to see this I do encourage  you to let Dave or Jessica show you around the   building is an old Butler Building it's really  dilapidated it it needed replacement 10 or more   years ago um it's it's it's Fallen apart in a lot  of ways but we keep pushing it back and pushing   it back it's only going to get more expensive so  at some point we're going to have to bite this   bullet and I'd like to just make a comment on this  too because I've been out there and like Todd says   this building's in bad shape um I know that these  are estimates here 500k the first year 500k the   second year you know might be a good idea just  just to kind of go out before we actually do the   budget hand the budget to Council in July Ju Just  see if we could get some some better estimates   um I I know we can't nail down the complete thing  but you know I I kind of get the feeling like this   building might cost more than a million dollars  so if we could get more just get more data okay   um 500k for the first year might be fine you know  because that's all we'll get to but after that   let's let's try to nail that down because I think  you know we don't know where the cost will go okay thanks any other questions on that mayor I do  not have any all right moving on um I am vehicle replacement um okay so this would be for um a  replacement of a 250 or 2500 series truck which   would be a 3/4 ton at the moment IM only has one  F250 that of pulling the large trailer and uh mini   excavator that we have back there um that's a 2012  vehicle and it's it's pretty pretty well beat now   u i don't even actually really trust it to pull  the uh the trailer the way it is and we've been   borrowing utilities trucks to to pull and Tim's  Truck can pull it but his truck is actually in   the shop again right now too so um basically the  refer or replacement of the 2012 F250 truck with   another F250 we've only bought F-150s in the past  recently um we really need the F250 to be able to   pull the larger amount of weight and then I also  think it would be worthwhile to have at least one   vehicle in the city that's four-wheel drive just  in case we need it for any anything after a storm   for instance or if another vehicle gets stuck  somewhere we've had Vehicles Stuck In Ditches   before this one priced as a four-wheel drive this  one's priced as a four-wheel drive yes and U with   uh with the lights and everything on it too  the the flashing lights this is um from Allen   J the same people that have been giving us other  quotes for for our other vehicles recently thank you mayor any questions on this one sir  just the F-150 in the past we've usually   get the 250 for extra Towing these new uh  lightning EVS have crazy Towing power and torque it's instantane 10,000 yes I'd just  be interested to to see how that compares   to and I know there's more to factor than just  that but um we would need to U be able to tow   13,321 PB so wow that's that's what our  that's what we're rated out on that with   the mini on the trailer that's what it is  great thank you so an F250 would actually   they they can do 13,800 PB or something like  that up to 22,000 oh wow depending on the   engine and the F-150s are really only rated  up with a good engine up to 11,400 lb so so   we really can't do anything with the F150s  but the Lightnings aren't higher than is oh sounds Towing is the same oh I thank you that was all I had mayor if there's  no other questions we're done with the the staff   presentations yes sir um so you have everything  at this point that we're looking at um hoping to   put in the budget as we uh enter the budget  making season um of course this is the time   the meeting where we do the city council  Blue Sky where maybe there's those items   that City Council Members have identified  as needs that we haven't and and we should   be thinking about programming in this next  or one of the next five fiscal years mayor   thank you are we should we go to any section  in our presentation for now or no we left this   one purposely sparse just where did I see I  thought I saw something well there there is   a summary of what of our items towards the end  okay we we can do that first uh go ahead skip   ahead this is the we started with the completed  CIP items and then the soon to be C completed   items so those are already going to be done  and the next two or three pages are all the   projects that we just went through and I believe  they're alphabetical order and you can just kind   of scroll through there Daniel so this is just a  recap of what we've gone through earlier this is   a recap does this total up the 2425 column  we did not total anything up because we're   not also totaling up the revenues and the the  the sources perhaps of Grants because it's not   always a fair accurate picture to look at it that  way John you want to talk about that at all only C did come to a consensus that they would remove  the uh 90k for the garden and push it out here   so that that would but but you can scroll through  this now now that you've been through everything   the whole purpose of this was after we've  completed this you can now go through this   item for item and maybe there's things as you  were going through the cery and said you know   I'll be looking at this one because maybe this  is something I don't want to go forward with   or whatever but we didn't feel a need to you  know show that that column might be you know   $8 million or something because you next time  you see this we'll have summaries and it'll   show you uh in the summary you know what what  it is for um uh Wastewater storm water general   fund each department in the general fund and  we we'll have a list like that for you they'll   have a total under each so for this particular  Workshop we were just to give you give you an   opportunity to go through um all the cips and  see what caught your eye and and what you might   be interested in and again um depending on what  council decides to do in July when they see the   overall budget it might require you to want to  say you know what we're going to push this one   out a year and what have you yeah and that's why  we want to stress we're not making any decisions   tonight right we're just this is our first  introduction into the things we're thinking   about um and hope to get some future feedback in  the next time we talk about the budget okay thank   you so do this is the first page of the summary  Dan is that the first page is is that uh that's   the first page yeah those are the updated ones  though if you scroll down to the new where you I   think you just were it ends at 450,000 is that  the last one uh oh this is the next page yeah   there's two pages of it okay one and a half pages  um it's an alphabetical order that's I got it very fast math I it is important to I mean just  like every line item we don't know the revenue   where it's coming from but total just under 2.8  million back of the napkin just expenses only not   understanding that's I I went through and did  that as fast as I could but that's helpful to   know now what happens the next year and so the way  the reason I like to know that number is uh our   uh taxes alone I think are going to be about $6  million in Revenue yeah I could isn't that right   yeah yeah it's going to be you're you're you're  close in the ballpark there but what I could do   it's well I mean she's just given an estimate to  like two over two million yeah oh oh thur thurm   is over two million alone so so my number couldn't  be no no no million on there though what I'll do   is tomorrow morning I will send all of council  what the actual total is of all those ther will   that help you yeah I mean it's just good to total  up the year that's ultimately what we're trying   to decide and I think um well now that and that's  both I know these numbers will change yeah oh yeah   but mayor remember that's um this isn't separated  this is just a list in alphabetic order so this   isn't separated by general fund storm water waste  waterer where uh notor you know uh notoriously   Council they go as you know they know we need  the way spider stor they'll look at general fund   and then determine if there's things there they  want to push out but I'll give you a total by uh   um by the general fund by department and and by  the Enterprise fund to give you totals for each   that'll be that'll make it better right absolutely  yeah yeah instead of giving a whole total because   because general fund and Enterprise fund are  separate yes and you'll want to see but we can   add the three funds together and we still should  know we're going to do $3.5 million in projects   out of three different funds $3 million of assets  are going to be invested in this community I think   that's that's good indicator to understand um  I think that yes this sheet here at the end is   really helpful for me and and being able to  enhance it because when you go in a project   and out you know especially as we take this next  step whatever this next meeting looks like is if   we can get this sheet um and thank you for all  who worked on this entire presentation putting   it together I know it was a lot of work but  it is helpful and it's going to be very nice   to go back and and just get an idea of what's  what's proposed and the no as many known as   we we have today um and the update verse news  so basically new is update our prior year cips   um just on the well I'm not referencing anything  in front of us the individual projects when they   say update with the banner on the top those are  the same ones okay updated yes so those are now   Consolidated there yeah it just means you've  seen these before okay are there any projects   from last year's CI P meeting that are not moved  over here that that is something I wanted to make   sure we didn't drop anything and John I know I  stressed that to you several times can you say   with certainty that we didn't drop anything youan  you mean you mean moving you mean moving programs   that weren't completed last year into this year  any CIP item that did not got get brought forward   to this meeting if we were to not to my knowledge  no I think everything everything is uh if we were   to go to the the budget book right every page  so like these are numbered which will kind of   tell us in my I want to see so if that's true  that's great that means that basically these   are all the ones that are continuing through  this year from last year's uh CIP and updated   which means the price could have changed okay  with updates and then anything new was really   the first time right we're seeing it in a formal  cor way okay Council any other comments at this time I um let me make sure I'm  on track here this part you are   looking for blue is this the  Blue Sky yes sir okay I'll be quick performance metrics is number one as far  as I think we've talked about this in Prior cips   I don't know if it gets uh I think did it get  cut last year or something did we push that   um this is essential uh and I think we talked  about code enforcement implementing some some   metrics I view this as a potential CIP because  I think it it requires some sort of investment   um uh and if not then then fine but I think the  the programming the software this is under the   Community engagement pillar is uh a a budget much  bigger than ours the city of Clearwater is a good   example I don't know if you've been to that City  but they've got a dashboard that is the mo one   of the most impressive things I've ever seen in my  life and it is the definition of excellent citizen   engagement and transparency and accountability  and you can see sort of everything that's in the   budget they've got interactive budgets but the  code enforcement dashboard was really good and   that one jumped out because in a prior of CIP I  think we had talked about hey code um believe our   community development director said I I'll start  in this I think the first attempt at implementing   some metrics and I think first questions we have  to ask ourselves is you know do we want to invest   in some sort of um we've invested in bsna software  that was a prior year Capital expense that has   ongoing costs do we need and I know there are  trainings and things like that have costs do we   need to invest more uh through bsna please look at  you know the city of Clearwater and I was able to   uh obtain sort of the metrics that they Define  that I think are very valuable and really roll   this out more as a community engagement software  piece that I think will layer in nicely with some   of this new GIS data for economic development  for all types of purposes is getting the funds   together to provide a better experience for our  residents businesses and our internal City staff   and the city council to through the city of cape  canaveral.fl of I know we're proud of that uh   getting uh again we I don't think we can be uh  compete with the budget of the neighbors across   the other side of the state but the program I  think they used open gov and there's all probably   different types of program but what an impressive  expensive I think it was like 70,000 per module   per year or something do they have smaller vers  can we just take a sliver of that and demonstrate   it here and it it was it was the instead of me  talking about what it should look like I wanted   to share that today to say an investment was made  in that City it was very important because it was   a lot of money to them and I'm over here in  Cape canav looking can we do something like   that similar to that so my Blue Sky for the day  is again on the performance metrics and looking   at the city of Clearwater and I can email the  uh the metrics that I think were really good   specific to code enforcement um I spend a lot of  time trying to figure stuff out here and I'm going   right to the pains for for me as a council member  and I believe the pains for the community and I   I do not sometime I have a hard time following  procedures and why things are the way they are   and our city council has so much time everyone  up here volunteers their time to work other   cities have implemented internal Auditors within  their City staff some of them report to the city   manager some of them report to the council but  this is an internal control that it would be a   position or an investment or maybe it's something  we contract that they are making sure on behalf   of the city council and City Administration  and ultimately the citizens that someone is   quality control someone is overlooking the steps  to say hey I'm going to focus in these areas and   they are a resource to uh I think everyone because  there's a lot of steps there's a lot of layers of   you know state law federal law Grant rules all all  these things and I see the look on my face and and   and our staff bogs through it and works hard but  we've seen many cases where Things fall through   the cracks and issues happen and I think that this  is a a good opportunity for us to cons seriously   consider um in future years an internal auditor  that would be a resource to the council and the   city Administration as a whole that we could rely  on and we could direct to say we need info on this   because that's where I'm trying to put the pieces  together for an issue and I'm essentially making   sure you know that that things I understand what  happened why it happened and this is largely what   a lot of these uh Auditors can do and provide um  and the city I think the city of Titusville has   implemented something like this city um I can't  remember the other one uh but there that was the   second uh Blue Sky the third thing is an employee  handbook this is something that we've talked about   for a long time I believe we're on the Merit  system here an HR policy of some sort I know   that we have um a a new uh transition there  with Natalie on board with us to help uh with   this but this was one of the first things that  Todd I think you and I had spoke about and it's   something that I know citizens have inquired  about and to this date I'm not clear on what   those policies are and I think our city staff or  our city policy I was going through it the other   day when it talked about um under Section 402 our  Personnel system that we uh the Merit principal um all appointments and promotions of City  officers and employees shall be made solely   on the basis of Merit and Fitness  demonstrated by a valid and reliable   examination of other evidence and competence  that's okay and then the Merit system is uh consistent with all applicable federal and  state laws the city council shall the city   council shall provide for the establishment  regulation and maintenance of a merit system   governing Personnel policies necessary to a  effective administration of the employees of   the city of Department's offices and agencies  including but not limited to classification   and pay plans examinations Force reduction  removals working conditions provisional and   exempt appointments inservice training grievances  in relationship with employee organizations the   city council shall provide for the establishment  so City attorney any help or guidance here on do   we have this can we strengthen this um I think  this is something that our if I understand we   are charged to do and I'm not aware of us  I think having that to the level I think we want and so I for the so that  I can stop that those were   the big ones so performance metrics  internal auditing employee handbook um and I'm going to stop there those are those  are the three that I think are really important   to the success of this organization and for uh  for us to get all these other projects executed   and done so thank you Mary I have a notes  on performance metrics internal auditing and   employee handbook thank you yes sir thank  you thank you for everything that was put   together I I have to give a great thanks to  Lisa she slaved over this for several weeks   and many revisions and changes over those  weeks and she put together a great project   a great product on a great pressure I want to  second that Lisa did a incredible job with this incredible mayor do you want to go to the reste  um yes I have some ideas or things that I would   like to see happen I I believe the metrics is  important like you said mayor and the employee   handbook I had asked U Tau about that earlier  um I think it's important for us to understand   how how it works and how the procedures go and we  don't have anything that we can use at this time   um and then you know my big thing with the budget  again this year is um you know let's make sure we   look at the projects that have been on the books  try to get them done stop kicking the can down   the road I would like to see um more quality of  life amenities that are loow hanging fruit that   we could probably do with not a lot of money  and bring back things that we used to have here   that kind of went away with Co and and other Giant  projects like little things like um phto Field Day   Founders Day um a Patriot Day Parade um a Veterans  Day Parade that mean a lot to the citizens that   we've gotten away from um which improves the  quality of life and makes the small town um   Community feel um you know we've had music fests  at manity Park um you know now with the aquarium   coming maybe we could do something in partnership  with them to promote Arts and Science and marine   life and um different things like that I just  think that there's a lot of great things out   there that we used to do that we don't do anymore  and um you know that don't cost a lot of money um   I would like to see us remain funding the A1A um  like councilman said we we started that many years   well not that many years ago but putting money  away for that and now we do have skin in the   game when it comes to push comes to shove with uh  Department of Transportation um and I would like   to make sure that you know blight again in our  city um we've talked about um multiuse or mixed   use um and concentrate on um land acquisition  to make bring bring businesses here or to um   help with the the blight situation and we're  looking to the U bed board for direction on   that um but there's you know the the old pawn  shop which is up for sale now and they're on   Jackson Avenue across from Mell ma there's that  horrible building um just things like that that   we could spend money on I know that we have  um put money towards the presidential Street   master plan the Civic Hub you know it all looks  good but when we see the numbers we really have   to think about where we're going where we've been  and what we need to do to get to where we want to be that's you know I think metrics U I'm  I'm glad we're hiring another person for   code enforcement I hope that helps and the  other thing is you know we see we have a new   system for the uh meetings and it seems like  we always have a problem with that as far as   sound or people not being able to communicate  and that was our big thing was to be make sure   residents got their say like today we still have a  problem and we have spent money on that and I just   want to make sure that you know if we need more  money if we need a different system let's do it   so we can so the public can hear and be part of  what we do and what we say got it thank you very much Willis uh yes I wanted to um follow  up on where we are on the code the uh the handbook for uh code enforcement um  I'm supposed to be reviewing that next by I   should receive that by close of business next  Friday oh okay um but as far as blue sky goes   uh I my focus has been on A1A a lot and uh I  want to keep that uh pushed along as much as   I can because I think the safety of our our  main street I know it's it belongs to the   State of Florida but it may be their road but  it is our Main Street and uh with all the new   development that possibly can be happening on  the West Side here near City Hall people are   going to be trying to get across and we need to  be focused on that as well uh beyond the metrics   that uh the mayor was talking about I really have  nothing else beyond what we have seen here so I'm good Davis yeah I was going to say I was thinking  as well as doing A1A that is a big project and   it's going to get worse between the port and and  the aquarium so that's one of the things as well   as the the flooding that's you another focus and  I I really would like to see the Civic Hub move   forward I think it's something the community  wants they've expressed the they love Friday   Fest and also if we do the Hub there's lot lots  of other events it's just not limited to the   Friday Fest that we could do um make the citizens  could uh be involved in and could bring in money   for the city so um that's it thank you you council  member Jackson okay I would like to see Community   involvement we did surveys before to determine  what our community was interested in as far things   that we're looking at for our city and back in the  day there were there was one I went through it had   no choice that was none of the above so it forced  you if you were going to take the survey to fill   out answers and give feedback when that may not  have been something you were even interested in   also have a desire to have a a more up to date  um I know we did a we had a plan in 2012 that   we've been working on that's that's 12 years old  our demographic has changed and so I would like   to see us get involved with our community to know  what their desires are I've spoken to people here   locally and they've even talked about we don't  have any shopping here there's nothing you know   so we're looking at what we want our community to  be and if we're looking at those things I think   I think Community involvement is important now  because we've had so many people that have sold   and moved away we have new people that have moved  in from other states and so those things could   have changed and so I think Community engagement  in those things are quite important and especially   right now especially after the pandemic with the  number of places that we saw sell and the number   of residents that have moved out and new ones  that have moved in um also I would as when we   look at resiliency and sustainability I would  like to make sure that what we're doing we're   getting a bang for our buck because there's good  things like looking at how to ensure that during   a hurricane we end up with being able to protect  our city protect bcso operations protect the fire   department and the First Responders I think it's  important in today's day and age Zach had said it   earlier when you look at the fact that we have  Bridges being hit by barges we have uh storms   like I now I think it's our responsibility as a  council to ensure that the money we spend is going   to make a really good bang for our buck now not  something that is projected to be a gain 20 years   from now for whatever that is but because we are  looking at these things happening now I think it's   important as I said earlier to have a disaster  recovery plan with any City so that we know what   our plan is and we're not scrambling figuring it  out if we had any issues um partnership with our   we're very fortunate to have great law enforcement  in our city we're fortunate to have bcso and we're   nestled between between all of these bases so  we have an opportunity to work with the people   that we have in our area to ensure Safety and  Security in our city in challenging times and   the times are getting very challenging so things  that we know will give us the biggest bang for   our back for what we're doing as far as I see  sustainability and resiliency and continuity   of government as all going together not having  a webcam in a certain spot on the beach where   you get to look at the ocean we need to use we  might want to do that too but we need to use   the tools that we have to make sure that we're  doing the right thing going forward and that we   can continue with our job as Council and as City  and City staff if we had anything happen because   there's things happening all over East Coast West  Coast and other countries as well so that's one   of my things that is um one of my blue skies and  then the other thing is making sure and we were   working on this with the um the EV workshop  and that's making sure that we have data so   that when we do make a decision we're able to see  if trending changes because decisions can be made   today and times are changing so quickly along  with technology and everything else a decision   you make today can be totally irrelevant tomorrow  so we need to be able to be in touch with what's   going on as a council so that we can go back and  make adjustments if we need to make adjustments   and make the right decisions based on trending  and that sort of thing I've heard for years at   a as a citizen how we did this oh y'all tell  me what the name of it is I'm having a brain   freeze here at the last minute but the thing  the thing that we did in 2012 to see where did   we want to be thank you the visioning and 2012 was  a long time ago are we seriously looking 12 years ago yeah but when when when it was changed just  like I said before when we got gave feedback   there weren't sections where you could give  no say I don't I don't think any of these are   important and we have a different demographic  when was it changed what day two years that's   even better that's good that makes me feel  better but I still think we need to look   at those things and staying plugged in and  plugged into reports numbers costs uh you   know cash inflows and outflows on any of the  things that we decide to fund purchase and buy thank you capture all these in the minutes  um to make sure we get them right and we'll   have a chance to review those minutes Council  will have a chance to review those minutes and   record all these Blue Sky items thank you yes  thank you uh where do we go next um the only   other thing is the informational item number  four uh city council um looked at the updated   employee defined contribution agenda item at  the March meeting and said let's just bring   it back to the CIP meeting so we can keep  it uh current keep it in front of us and   where we are but the council also asked from  for some additional information uh which um   Natalie will talk about and she did reach  out for some more additional information   and she's got that here but U this is not  presented again for Action this is just   an informational item um mayor if it's okay I'll  ask Natalie to present what she found yes please Natalie okay hello Natalie Harmon HR department um  after the meeting we did do a very quick um reach   out to the central the East Central um clerks  Association it went out to 74 area municipalities   per your requests but due to the fact that we only  had um from Wednesday to Friday to get information   we only had 11 responses um out of those 11 four  were in defined contributions and that should be   in your packet um the one that was in closest um  relation to us was the city of felsmere and they   did immediate vesting with um to um enhance their  employee retention and attract employees can you   show Natalie the screen so oh I'm sorry yeah you  should have um that would be attachment three in   your packet um the others were all part of f FRS  or they had defined benefit plans can you scroll   to the bottom of attachment three down this is  the last page correct so the ones that did respond   were Satellite Beach Port Orange City of felir and  Winter Park so the average festing for all four of   those combined came out to four years years and  then we did provide you uh the actual percentages   and then the rounded which came out to 9% on the  401a with the match of 4% and that's kind of in   that whole area where Council was talking about  maybe we come in at a compromised position not   go for the full ball of wax at this point because  we don't want to have to pull something back later   so you can you can see with the areas around  us what they're doing when they have defined   contribution they're around N9 in a 4% match which  is um smaller than what we had proposed but it's   certainly an increase and an improvement so it's  just something to file away uh when we bring this   item back to you and um right and since it was  just a discussion item or not discussion but   informational we did originally prepare those  numbers for you and I did bring them if you   wanted me to hand them out afterwards but um the  impact on the 10% 3% contribution was a $992,000   budgetary impact and then also with the 401a at  a 9% contribution and a 4% match was a $90,000   impact budgetarily and then um just just some  other additional information that I had pulled   together um from a Vanguard study it did show  that there was 49% of defined contribution plans   Nationwide do not have vesting schedules do have  they do not it's immediate vesting because it just   showed that um the majority of employees um would  leave an employer just for retirement benefits   alone so mayor I think a good way to move this  item forward might be if you if you all approve   um rather than present a resolution represent this  as a discussion item with the various scenarios so   we've got the scenario as it is today the top  Max what we talked about before and what the   impact would be there was a proposal thrown out  the last council meeting maybe we consider this   which also this information so there's right  there there's four different scenarios we can   look at and bring it back showing the impact  to the budget and all of those scenarios and   then from that we would hope that Council might  give us some direction U what the council wants   to do based on knowing what those impacts are and  after that we would follow up with a resolution   to confirm at a future meeting so um if it's  okay with the council and mayor we would just   could you get that ready for the April agenda or  is that a May thing whatever whatever you guys   prefer I think if we can do April that'd be better  because John's got more data yeah okay so let's go   ahead and finish that as a u a discussion item for  the April agenda yeah if we if Council makes that   decision then of course we'll incorporate that  into the budget whatever decision you you you   you make will be incorporated into the new budget  forever and ever amen amen I mean it is ongoing   liability right it is that is hey I can think of  a lot other places I'd rather you know but if you   if you do decide on a 94 or an 84 or whatever you  decide uh Natalie uh and I could incorporate that   right into the budget because then on one July  when you're hand it your book all these things we   discussed it affected whatever we wanted they're  already done and then you could start looking at   some other stuff on 15 July if if I may like just  talking to some of your very dedicated employees   uh their rent is very expensive and I did find  out that one of them cashed out their PTO to pay   student loans that they're carrying to work and I  mean they love working here so if you keep that in   mind thank you mayor if I might John what's the  next time we expect to formally um talk about   budget with the council at the Das here what's  the next well the normal if if Council decided if   Council decided that they wanted to talk about  the um the cips again uh we could schedule it   probably could be done it should be done before  uh before 28 May because once we talk about it if   there's recommendations made to remove something  or whatever we got a lot of work to do do to get   the budget done by the 17th 18th of June so then  we could go through it with the city manager and   hand it to you on one July so if you want to  do something else I would say sometime in May   but as far as the budget we with the budget the  budget goes to council July 1 okay so the entire   proposed budget okay I won't have a proposed  budget for Council prior to that I think what   we're saying is since we've got that July next  Workshop when we officially look at bu Workshop   in July when if we want to do another look at the  cips and have some more discussion on them as long   as we have it by what date i' I'd say you know no  later than like 28 May okay because by that time   then and I've got a new accountant and uh we're  putting together putting together a budget for   the first time with my new account so that's  where we are and I would like to do that and   take another look at them since I'm new at this  um because I learned about them today and there   are some that you know are new some that are from  last year so it would be helpful for me so that I can weigh in more fully that last year we  had another meeting we well we had the the   Strategic plan Retreat then we had the CIP  Workshop so there were two this is only one   this year so having a second one would be kind  consistent with that so mayor maybe we could   get consensus from the council to shoot for if  if Council wants to have a second one um shoot   for maybe 30 days out four weeks out something  like that I just want to did we have have we seen   the full CIP yet yes there's we don't intend  to produce anything new we have been sent the CIP these the those are the cips what we're  looking at now yeah well of course I know but   I mean in the for like the like we've done  in the past where see this is the strategic   planning meeting and we we're calling it a an  acting as a CIP meeting but the CIP usually   comes before the budget right and that's what  we're doing now today is meeting was the first   presentation of C yes yes this is the first C I  don't think we've been delivered though a full   CIP I in in in the funds like in the past oh  what you what we'll do is what we can do now   that we had this meeting because this was the  Strategic yes this is like the Strategic thing   with the cips attached now what um uh Joey and  I will do for you now is we will get you the   cips in the format like this book with the  summaries and you will receive that because   we we know where that's at at now we'll get you  that everybody I'll give everybody a a a little   binder with that and then if you want to meet  again to discuss that in May name a date and   then we'll go ahead and discuss that and then  the next thing you get of course is on one July   as you get a proposed budget which will contain  the cips that I gave you and and if you decide   that you want to change any of those I will  incorporate that in at the beginning of June   and now one July you got the most up toate  cips with the budget thank you so that first CIP this was sort of Prior we got introduced and  and I've appreciate it because they've involed   in the past the CIP just came out we didn't even  have this meeting and so I understand that it's   sort of slowed things down on on your side but it  really has engaged us and involved us and so my   thought was you'll go back do as you get the the  CIP over to us we definitely should meet on that   and then I think we can roll into the budget  but we have today's information we've never   had that really before going into that meeting  which I think is you'll sort of formalize if I   understand today right you'll get you'll get  a book that that's that's complete you know   prior to us a couple years back having a strategic  Retreat the only thing Council would get would be   in um in April or May they would get a a little  book that had all the cips so you could see the   capital projects there would be no discussion  and then I put the budget together and then on   one July you get this book right and say okay  this is for the council meeting right in July   and then there's a workshop before that council  meeting that's how it used to be it's a lot more   it's more informative like this I think we all  got a really good feel for what the projects   are there's not going to be any more surprises  in here this is what you looked at today will   only downsize unless one unless Council decides  that they want to add something the very Hands-On   process I'm sorry you've got a hand on there  mayor May or yes um I have one qu question or   request of John can you follow up with The Bard  County property or appraiser and let's find out   exactly the impact of the new legislation  on homesteading how that's going to impact   yeah I'm going to ask the bro I'm going to send a  message tomorrow and ask Bard property appraiser   do they have and I believe it's called a 403v do  they have that form updated for the cities and   if they do please send it to me and I'll give it  to all counsel as long as they got it as long as   they have it complete whenever yeah okay because  I know they're going to be feverishly working in   May on a gross taxable value of for all the  cities and they got their hands full because   they're changing mayor the state is changing  the reporting system for each and it affects   mostly the the property of Appraiser's office  I attended a two-hour class this past week and   it really affects the relationship between the  state and the property of Appraiser's office and   the forms they fill out and how they report their  stuff it doesn't affect the cities too bad it my   stuff stays pretty much the same but there's going  to be some new stuff and that's G to it'll start   affecting them in October when they're doing their  stuff in October yeah so everybody's a lot of new   stuff out there I have one request Mr Morley yes  ma'am um on the as we look at the the power banks   for seller at C5 and what we could potentially  use that for in Disaster Recovery is there any   way that we can find out what is already in place  and being utilized in at the precinct building   for battery storage for diesel no for that I I  know for a fact that they will have a plan for   what happens if there was power outages all of  that the reason I'm saying that is when we look   at Power and and solar banks for power and C5 if  we're using it in case this building lost power   we would have to look at all the technology that  needs to run down there and we were talking about   4 hours so I think it'd be good to investigate how  they're set up here so that if we're ordering any   equipment for that type of purpose we're making  sure we're doing it what we need to and covering ourselves want to make sure I understand what  you're saying um because we're also going to   be looking into a a battery storage system for  bcso we want to make sure it integrates with   their continuity of operations plan well we had  gone back and forth and we said that C5 could   Pro could uh provide a location for bcso to run  operations if they had a problem here um so we   would need to know or look at in a case of a  disaster after a hurricane which building is   going to provide primary backup for bcso and for  the fire department or anything like that what   kind of systems do they have in that because  we have to power those systems they have to be   online they have to be up and running if if that  wasn't the precinct office what would it take to   do it down at C5 does the battery size at C5 is  it sufficiently si to meet the load and the demand   of bcso inord with whatever limited operations  they would we absolutely need these 10 things to   to stay powered um and they will already have that  defined for their current building we just need to   know so that as we look at what we're purchasing  power you know solar battery back up for we would   no we're putting it in the right spots understood  what what if we just ask Commander kick to supply   us with their response and we fill it in by what  are the holes and that's good here he comes now   well he doesn't have to now I I I know he's  ready for dinner yeah but I mean just to yeah   well I mean they have certain procedures they  have certain places they're going to do this   let's see how we marry up to that and some of  that's confident safy confidential absolutely   but I love it I love where our head is thank you  my note on that mayor if I could read it back is   evaluate that what we're sizing for seze storage  meets vcso continent operations plan just do the   evaluation and present that information  okay and for next steps as I understand   it then John make sure I've got this right  you're going to produce the C the CP document and tomorrow okay and then we just then the  council will just meet to review that   again at another Workshop we could just  pick the normal Workshop Reserve date   that's between the council dates  um I don't know what the date is I'll Cabo so we'll have to coordinate an alternate date for   that so you'll you'll let us know yeah the  city clerk's office will work with you to schedule yeah I think that's a great plan   we're going to schedule Workshop  sometime after John gets back from Cabo absolutely from Cabo we fly support from  anywhere in the world you can participate in   the City of Cape canaval this has been a very  helpful Workshop today thank you Council thank   you staff everybody great work thank you thank  you appreciate it and I know a lot of work went   into it and we got a lot of other things on our  plate so keep rowing doing good thank you again Lisa the calculations sure out thank you I think  it's June June 30th John the not July one right oh no just the code I think it says on  or before the 30th day I have it I do but I've never well it I I  don't I feel like July 1 is just I wasn't saying I just it was  more of a you know just so we   know any other comments or reports  final seeing none y we can adjourn