I think we'll uh getting close to to getting this issue resolved and uh if when okay good evening everyone it is 6:11 PM we are at the City of Cape Canaveral City Hall council chambers for our March 19 2024 regular city council meeting uh with that I call this meeting to order thank you for all being here and council member Davis would you please lead us in the pledge United States thank you council member Davis city clerk please call the role council member Davis here council member Jackson here mayor protim Kellum here mayor Morrison here council member Willis here all are here thank you Council and now we're at the uh approval of the agenda as written or with amendments Council if you had a chance to take a look at our agenda tonight we have roughly nine numbered items um if we'd like to change the order or any other changes please let me know council member Jackson yes I have some um changes that will be to the workshop minutes okay well on the consent agenda so you okay with taking that up first that's that's the first one I think you'll pull that from the consent is that what you want to do okay that's today it's a good heads up we'll get into that um my my only request is item number n eight and nine are both informational um I do have a comment uh on number eight when we get down to the end but I would like to discuss uh item number nine uh today and move this up on the agenda this is a priority we only get together so often and so uh taking it from the informational item number nine and I propose we get to it uh after a well just right after the consent agenda or I know we have an item for action on there but I'd like to make sure we have enough time um either way if it falls as a discussion we don't have a length the agenda tonight I'd be fine with that too but uh Council any thoughts on that agree no objection okay any other changes okay seeing that uh I guess I move to add number nine as a discussion item let's just say right after the golf cart is that is that okay I knew that was your item think we'll get to it here and looking for a second I'll second okay uh made the motion seconded by council member Willis to move item number nine as a discussion item U any further discussion City Clerk four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum four mayor Morrison four council member Willis four motion passes 5 and uh that's it I I think we're we're clear on on the agenda now we can move on to the presentation interviews portion of the meeting the first one that we have here today is a presentation of proclamation as water conservation month this month of April I'll go ahead and uh read this Proclamation go down front there do we have someone here today Mr kenan's here Sir Mr Kennan thank you very much tell you what I'll uh go down there read this Proclamation then we can take a photo and please love to hear some remarks if you choose good evening this is an official proclamation of the City of Cape canaval Florida whereas the City of Cape Canal's surrounding natural environment the ecosystem and unique beauty it affords are the foundation of our community and whereas the planet's environment is currently facing numerous perils from Human related activities that must be addressed including a loss of biodiversity extreme weather sea level rise and freshwater depletion and whereas water is a basic and essential need of every living creature and whereas the State of Florida the St John's River Water Management District the city of cocoa water utilities and the City of Cape canabal are working together to increase awareness about the importance of water conservation in stewardship and whereas the City of Cape canaval and the State of Florida has designated April typically a dry month when water demands are most acute Florida's water conservation month to educate citizens about how they can help save Florida's precious water resources and whereas the City of Cape canaval has always encouraged and supported water conservation through various educational programs and special events and whereas every business industry school and Resident can make a difference when it comes to conserving water and whereas every business industry school and citizen can help by saving water and thus promote a healthy economy and community and whereas as outdoor irrigation compr uh comprises a large portion of water use it is important to encourage citizens and businesses to focus on improving out irrigation efficiency and whereas the City of Cape Canaveral will continue to support and expand initiatives that enhance water-based sustainability and resiliency in order to improve the safety security and well-being of the residents both now and in the future now therefore I Wes Morrison mayor of the City of Cape canaval Florida Bard County Florida do hereby proclaimed the month of April 2024 as water conservation month in the City of Cape canaval to help protect our precious Resources by practicing water saving measures and becoming more aware of the need to save water signed and sealed this 19th day of March 2024 thank [Applause] you Mr mayor council members thank you uh for bringing awareness and attention to this very important issue I will say I'm really glad that you're the one that had to read this this is like half your meeting right here so I'll try to keep my comments brief we'll have to work on short meetings every year too that was a lot um yeah there's a there's a special emphasis this year on on leak detection as you can imagine if you have an irrigation system uh at your house or your business if there's any kind of an underground leak that has not been detected it's wasting tremendous amounts of fresh water and that's really what the focus is on is Fresh Fire um so this is a good time of year it hasn't been very rainy uh to go out and check those systems just to make sure that they're operating correctly and there are no leaks out there but uh as I said I'll keep this brief so Mr mayor council members Canal thank you very much thank you [Applause] you wonderful so the next on uh the agenda is a interview applicant for the appointment of the culture and Leisure Services Board no stranger I see former council member uh Angela Rayman here tonight for the interview City attorney will ask you a few questions question I believe you get on the receiving end of the usual question all the information in your application is true and correct that's right explain to the city council why you're back do you want me to tell you the truth I'm interested I'm interested in the city of cap and I want to see the city of K keep moving forward I think we had a good run the last five or six years and I think we just need to keep going in that direction I think without a Clear Vision for the future of our city without that nothing will get done I want to see kabini this afternoon and I'm reminded of this that you must have a vision vision and a can do and especially when it comes to culture and Leisure Services because this is the way that we raise the quality of our lives and I think with our community center and our Cap Center and hopefully a Civic Center this is going to serve our residents and give the residents what they really want for each other thank you thank you so C uh Council City attorney further questions from you I believe uh Council we can go down the line or move around is a uh interview opportunity if you choose any questions I don't have any questions I just want to say thank you for making the effort to be on this board and to continue with the City of Cape Carnival thank you my interest will continue as long as I I'll resist the urge but please don't no I I appreciate your willingness to continue to serve um I do have one question how do you propose to keep from having six-hour meetings I think that uh the person who takes care of the chair for culture and services runs a pretty tight meeting and usually they get finished in a one one hour one hour and a half isn't that true M I think that's very don't okay okay council member Willis any further questions uh I could I could well we can come back no particular order no no no no no no no no um um I appreciate your willingness I'll let it go with that thank you um I just wanted to say thank you for all your service to the city over the years and then I had a question if you could not have your top two spots what value would you bring to the lower three that's an interesting question are you talking about the priority list for the yes well I think I have a good view and I think that you know I know the city pretty well um that is I think that I could probably you know I could possibly contribute to any of the boards and I think you know as far as Planning and Zoning I know all about ordinances and naturally we took a lot of advice the other I think I know something about all of them and duck served as chair for the board of adjustment our time so I did go to those meetings also exactly the fine tuning that they have to do for different kinds of ordinances involv I remember big one had to do with com FS so I think I understand how that work I think I understand about business and as I see our city grow I think that we have to grow in the right way and when we develop we have develop in the right way and I think sometimes we have to be careful about too much development because I think we have to also worry about A1A since A1A hasn't really received the funding I think we have to worry about that because we don't want to create so much volume that we can't even get to publs any longer I think I get there faster by bike so I I could could any of that and I think I would be fine but this is the one that had absente you know you know space so I think culture Leisure thank you hope I answered it okay thank you mayor P Tim Kell yes thank you Angela for your dedication it's apparent that you love our city um and you have you will bring a lot of expertise and and um to to the board I just had one question I watched the meeting um and and you had made a comment and I wasn't sure where you were coming from because I believe that the boards are representation of this citizens in the city and they bring a lot of um knowledge and expertise to the council with their recommendations you had said in the uh in that that um that the council and the board need to stay in their Lane and I wasn't understanding what you meant by that that that came from a question that was asked of me uhhuh and I think yeah I think you know what I meant by that no I I think that I think that the council has a job to do I think that the boards have a job to do I think staff has a job to do and I think that sometimes some people think that they can control things that really shouldn't be controlled by them that's what I meant by that each each group needs to stay in their mind that's is exactly what I meant I just um because I think it's important for the board to be able to bring the representation to the board from the residents and and have ideas I didn't know if that meant you know you you have tunnel vision you know okay well I thank you again for your dedication to our city and your love for our city and you'll be an asset to that board thank you any other questions Council I don't have mayor did you have any questions I have lots of questions but for this you know out of all the board members that I uh we've had the pleasure of appointing you're the only one that you know you're unique you're the only one I've served with you know until one of these Circle back uh you know after terms or myself and I I would I look forward to seeing our boards become full and I think it's important I do have some comments but that's not for the sake of this interview I'll be taking those up when we take the agenda item up but thank you for your willingness to serve thank you for uh stay in plug Dan and continuing to be a great cheerleader for Cape Canaveral you always have been um and yes thank you no other questions for me so with that I think we're finished thank you very much thank you okay so the interview is complete there uh we are now moving on to next item here which is public participation I've got two cards here um excuse me I have three cards first one here is John Benton time thank you Mr B okay I'm here because I to know why I couldn't defend myself in a code reduction this has been going on 10 years this June when you accuse somebody of living in a warehouse and you find him guilty and you laugh at him and the board members who are Christians are laughing at it that's disgusting and then Mr Mayor you trespass me because judge Crawford asked me to bring a sign with mayor Rand and Attorney Kim C's name on that sign here and hold it here because you guys problems and you trespass me said I was undesirable this is what the board did you're the only board member left these other board members I don't know why they AR looking at you saying why can't John defend himself in that meeting but we know because it's Kevin man the witness that you guys called the Deacon in the Presbyterian Church coming in lying telling you that he didn't have anybody in this Warehouse he had a whole bunch I got a cop in the only unit I own he's a cop in the unit next to me paying me rent I'm not going to live in that unit you gotta let someone defend themselves but you thought so you wanted to take it out on me because everybody thought I was homeless living in there I've owned my condo on that warehouse since 88 why am I going to live in a warehouse next to a cop why couldn't I defend myself why can't I come back for an appeal process the only person that can answer that now is you and the lawyer over there law and the city manager down there you fired Mr Green Mr Rand lost his first election because he trespassed me for that sign and judge Crawford probably is the one that fixed this to where you can't make Anonymous complaints to the board anymore to the city where people living next for code enforcement issues you owe me you owe it to me you want to go another 10 years I will you had old Cas on steart on surf drive you aren't doing anything because of Kevin man he's a deacon in the church his son was living in a warehouse on the sex Fender site and you find me guilty of living in it why did you do that where was the cops at you know he's in there it's on the list you know who's on there's only three or four he was one of them you really want someone like that he's he's covering up for his son Liv in the warehous so he doesn't show the real address you really want to do that for your people your citizens you covered up you put religion in front of it religion is not is tearing this country out look what it's doing to Israel and this lawyer is a Jew and the lawyer problem it was racism stop you're not going to come up and be boisterous and and slander that's not slander I'm I'm make an allegation I believe this racism thank you you can thank you and with that we'll go to the next public comment card thank you all for your patience uh Miss Peg schaer thank you very much again for the opportunity to be able to speak I don't know that I say enough but I really do appreciate all the hard work that you guys do City everybody is on the path to Improvement um I just want to Second what Angela said yes it takes a vision and I'm happy to see the work that city is doing in the vision I just uh witnessed the C development um agenda and you know was at the meeting and a few things came to mind and I'll be brief the community redevelopment plan is for the elimination of Slum and the prevention of light the reduction of crime job creation is one of the ways that you could be awarded um a benefit there and um you could also use those funds for storm water so it's great to have a vision this but the vision has to be backed up with daytoday code enforcement that is ensuring those of us that have spent the time the money in to be a part of this Redevelopment plan are being supported and that the area around us is also being held accountable for the same standards that we were I understand that in the agenda pack item page 131 to 137 had some information on it concerning the special meeting request and the information that we had for that I I have that I take uh I take exception to three specific things on that it's just three I've got plenty more but let's just go with three number one on the very first page I think it's 131 it says records prior to February 11 2022 are not available but that's incorrect there's a notice of violation dating back 2017 it is noov 2017-13 you can see 19 violations on that so there is plenty of record available going back number two also on the same page it's under a listing of 1213 2022 where it's an entire paragraph that really does nothing there's no Code Enforcement issue there it's just a staff report that's really kind of a uh an attack on my personal character the fact that nothing in that is true is really second to the fact that it's even in there in the beginning and it it cast shade and it just shows a bias straight from the beginning and then the third thing that I take exception to is that it says on 1214 2023 staff was made aware that a portion of the parking area and this is the parking area 7802 North Atlantic was previously paved in the new area uh that was an area that was never paid do you just needed some two minutes probably Council are we okay two minutes I like to work through the council I'm I'm fine with it okay so again really brief it just says that on that date 1214 of 2023 they were made aware that the there was an area that was over an area that was previously dirt well that is not correct I sent a email and I showed where that area was previously dirt and it is not it does it doesn't me no benefit whatsoever to throw shade or to cast any disparaging on any of the neighboring businesses in fact it works against me the better off they do the better off I do but the the items listed in the community redevelopment are the exact same items that I emailed I said hey there's an area where this water's running straight into the D storm area hey there's BL across the street where there's homeless people trying to prevent CME hey there's a hole in the ceiling hey the upstairs has been condemned and we have these vagrants living in it I gave an entire email on how I thought we could improve the city and again those areas that are really what I'm Focus Life Safety environmental safety Economic Development those were not that not one of those received a notice of violation but somebody came into my restaurant counted the number of restrooms I had and the number of chairs to determine that I deserve the notice of violation or that I put down gravel and that was an immediate notice of violation the areas to the left of me to the right of me and across from me all received either courtesy calls or courtesy letters and I immediately receiv notices of violations without those in mind were not life safety environmental or economic right I'm still asking please don't send us down this path of this new reenvisioning project and ask people to come and invest their money in our city if we cannot take the basic steps of ensuring the codes that are already in books are being held accountable thank you thank you third and final card I believe I have is is Tina Freeman hey Tina come on down start the buer okay um my name is Tina Rose Freeman and I'm here tonight because um I am very um interested in wanting to serve on um the board um the of City of Cape canaval and submitted my application and I haven't heard anything yet other than it's been received so um I just want to let the council know that um I'm available I just finished serving um eight years on our HOA board I've also been involved in two um nonprofit organizations on their boards and so um I've owned here since 1996 and um I just want to make you aware that um I'm available and I want to serve and I've submitted my application but no one's called me yet so I just want to let you know thank you thank you and that was for the board I'm sorry the uh culture Leisure Services board or the community cultural the culture and Leisure Services Board was my number one pick and um so and then um my other one was the um Community awareness Community appearance appearance I mean yes Community appearance that was my number two well I'm sure staff had got the application at some point I think you said last week yes and uh our city manager if you need to follow up I'm sure can point you in the right direction I'll probably Molly or someone but thank you this evening to me so thank thank thank you okay and so with that that concludes public participation fortunately we don't have the the live stream operating right now and so we're gonna uh keep going down the agenda here anyone else who intended to speak that was not heard please raise your hand before we close seeing none we'll close we're now on to the consent agenda tonight we have a total of five consent agenda items uh I believe council member Jackson expressed the desire to pull item number one earlier is that still the case yes that's the case Okay um Council if there's any other items we'd like to pull uh please do so I would like to uh add items two three and five please so items one two three five all but four um all but four have been pulled if seeing nothing else the one we can approve if unless somebody wants to pull item four make a motion to approve the consent agenda item four got a motion by council member Willis second by council member Davis to approve item number four from the consent agenda any further discussion city clerk council member Davis for council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for there Z listing that was to approve the Statewide Mutual Aid agreement with the state of Florida Division of Emergency Management providing for reciprocal emergency aid between the City of Cape canaval and the state Netherlands local government entities in the event there is a need that cannot be met by our existing resources and authorized mayor to do the same had a chance to talk with our city attorne our city manager about this and I'm excited about that thank you so much for working on it and so with that from the top number one uh council member Jackson you pulled this one the floor is yours these are the approved the February 15 2024 workshop and February 20th 2024 Reg meeting minutes council member Jackson yes I just had a couple of little um really tweaks on some of these minutes okay for this meeting um there's a section that says concerns over low charging data so far and actually that was concerns over low usage due to it being peak season and charging station utilization being low when the number should be higher council member Davis I just going to say can you specify where your oh yes that is thank you let get to it so item which is it the February 15th minute Workshop the workshop yes feary okay so um it's a few lines under it's in the first paragraph under items for consideration does the monitor ahead of us is is that corre yes it's in the middle of that you'll see a sentence um EV charging parks with EV Chargers presenting arguments not to have Chargers it's right above that let me see where it is um concerns over low data charging so far increasing the hours operation it's the con concerns over low data charging so far that's really meant to be the fact that we were looking at the fact that it was low usage for the number of charges okay for the fact that it was peak season mayor if I can help I think um what we're suggesting is we strike the words charging data so far yes and insert the words usage based on it being peak season and charging numbers being low when higher numbers were expected yes thank you okay so we're in the second sentence the first sentence is a longer one really starting at the word discussion is that right and within that sentence we're striking which section or words in that the the words charging data so far will be stricken concerns of the low charging data so far and instead read concerns over low usage based on it being peak season and charging numbers being lower when higher numbers were expected that's how I understand it if I'm correct that's correct so was just a simple thing there okay um okay and then there's another section just a little bit lower let's see um presenting arguments not to have Chargers while at the same time discussing a marketing Strate strategy we were really um taking a look at any market decline indicators and being aware if we need to make adjustments while discussing the marketing so do you want to remove a word that you do not feel is it the argument line you'd like to strike or right because it's a little confusing presenting arguments not to have Chargers that wasn't really the intention it was presenting market decline indicators And discussing a marketing strategy in regards to reporting and making adjustments if necessary so instead of presenting arguments not to have Chargers it was presenting market decline indicators while discussing a marketing strategy if we saw changes in reporting the you're fine was saying while at the same time discussing a marketing strategy yes so you want to remove and repl remove the sen presenting arguments not to have Chargers with presenting market decline indicators right it was analyzation of market decline indicators from reports and making adjustments and then just and then marketing if needed okay um that's way to say that is that concern over market decline right there is that I think we can con it's different than that or was that does no that was different yes okay yeah because this wasn't an argument to the Chargers removed this was an argument to look at reports and make adjustments based on usage okay let's just take that one by itself presenting arguments uh not to have Chargers you do not feel accurately reflects the intentions of I'd say strike that um let's pause on that one here go city manager or city clerk is there any I know sometimes in the past if you know if it's not accurate would would this be okay on your side um when when I had um Mrs Jackson brought this to my attention um when she met with me and um what I explained to her is if we make Corrections in the minutes we have to be very careful that we're not adding words that were not said but it's okay to clarify to be more precise about the words that were said so um and what Mrs Jackson is saying is these are clarifying the words that she said but they didn't get captured properly so what she's proposing is a clarification for Council to approve thank you okay and the motion needs to specifically as stated uh the words you want to remove are presenting arguments not to have Chargers that that anything else just for this little tidbit if if I have it sir it's leaving the word presenting but striking arguments not to have Chargers striking those five words instead inserting market decline indicators okay and then leaving while at the same time discussing a market strategy profitability and Technology mhm will'll catch up in time and then I think right there and adjustments to reporting as necessary does that capture it opposition yes thank you and then leave the rest of it okay that it council member Jackson that captures it thank you city manager as stated would you like to make a motion to to amend the minutes assuming city clerk is I can just read the entire that whole thing if it helps if you want me to let's say as stated would to make sure it's captured yeah I would like to make a motion to change it as stated that was correct okay Mr Morland a second got a motion by council member Jackson and a second by mayor bir Tim Kellum to am in the minutes as as stated by our city manager any more discussion or Council on this are we okay with that well I think the the minutes should also reflect that uh it was basically a discussion because there were two sides to this um and I question whether those statements represent both sides um I mean I I can agree with the changes but uh it uh turns into a statement being adjusted here because we're not we're not capturing the fact that we also uh discussed counter market uh data counter counter to counter to this okay to the intent of some of this initial statement here it's silent on that mhm can I explain please so when it comes to Workshop minutes I normally in in in regular minutes too Robert's Rules I I try to follow Robert's Rules but I also try to follow council's desire to have some discussion captured so that's why I always start with discussion ensued and included it's not discussion included the entire conversation so this one was a little tough because there was a lot of information to share and I spent a lot of time deciding what to put in there and what not and um you know content that you know was more detailed than I'm used to in a workshop so you know if I didn't capture it properly I apologize um but that's what discussion and sued and included means it doesn't mean the entire conversation and if it skews one way or other or the other I apologize on this set of minutes and you did a great job because it was a very detailed um thank you and with what you said council member Willis maybe that second piece we leave because there was discussion about removal there was discussion about making changes if if we saw things that indicated that we should um maybe just change the one concerns over low charging data so far because really that was what we discussed just a moment ago where it's concerns over the actual usage of them based on it being pist so maybe that one section is really the only thing that needs to be changed have after having heard me her City Clerk and council member Willis so we've got a motion in a second to uh amend it as stated uh are you what would the change be we would need to amend the motion are you saying just remove the senate or the section of the Senate arguments not to have just just remove the concerns over the lower low charging data so far okay that we discussed just a moment ago leave the other one alone because we did discuss what options there would be if we needed to make changes while we were discussing the market during the meeting so you know that one could probably stay the one about removing them mayor I can recap if it helps if yes and I think as stated thank you would be to amend yeah if Council has consensus to amend the motion the motion would now be only make the one change which is concerns over low and then striking charging data so far and insert usage so concerns over low usage based on it being peak season and charging numbers being low when higher numbers were expected and that's the only change yes okay so got a mo we need need a motion to amend the main motion as stated and then a second I will make a motion to amend that as stated I'll second got a motion to amend the the main motion as stated by council member Jackson a second by mayor Pro Tim Callum any further discussion on this amendment city clerk council member Davis for council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis four the motion to amend the main motion passes 5 now back to the main motion as amended any further discussion on that city clerk council member Davis for council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis four motion passes 5 item number one to amend those minutes and the other meeting or on item number one was there another other any anything else council member Jackson no item one okay and so I think we're we're done with that one anything else on the city side that we can provide thank you move on to the next do we need to approve the minutes for the council meeting yes please I make a motion to approve the minutes for pass the February 20th council meeting I'll second got a motion by council member Willis a second by mayor P Jim any further discussion this is for the the regular meeting minutes the second part seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor Pro Tim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis four motion passes 5 thank you moving on to item number two this is a r resolution appointing a member to the culture and Leisure Services Board of the City of Cape Canaveral uh this is in uh regards to council uh former council member Raymond who is now applying to that board the I have some questions on this one this is why I pulled it um how long is that uh who would be the best to ask questions on the applications the the board vacancy the board V um well Molly administers the board but the city clerk's office handles the applications and vacancies we just gather them and then when they come in as soon as we soon as we get an application depending on what's been chosen what their um preferences are we send them out to those directors all of them and then they they take it from there so um I can't remember off top of my head you know when we we received her application um it I think the application was dated December 13th okay the only reason I know that that's my birthday but it stood out but yes I think okay okay so um however we received it I don't know if Angela hand delivered or emailed off the top of my head I can't remember but um then it would have gone out to the different directors as far as the vacancy though it's it's a seven person board I think that it's been operating as a six member board Advisory board for short while Molly right for how long that would be the question is how long has it been operating under the six Molly do you have that information how long has this vacancy I guess been in there maybe about a year I would have to go back in the record and look all that up so a year ago we had a seven member rough I would have to verify it's been several months and so and this is the this application so was there there is there are um if I remember alternates in the old by I had a chance to watch the meeting as well and we're talking about procedures is this a full seveners board or is it five with two alternates it's a full seven person board based on the uniform code that Council passed we don't have alternates anymore wonderful thank you for confirming that I think those old bylaws and stuff it sounds like those have been amended so now with the uniform code it's seven the do we remember who the the last board member was did their term come to an end or did they resign um I believe that was no I'd have to check my records because it's been a while but I believe that was Marlene side and she resigned before she passed away thank you so when that um one thing just on this uh as we're considering this is uh just the procedures there this is a comment on I hope we can uh get a a process there that would allow and standardize this a little bit better to understand because I did not know the vacancy was on I didn't see um anything being communicated I think it was up on the Marquee and but sitting there for that long for a year uh that board I think just preparing for this should function as a seveners board and it it's been functioning with six um and so that the procedures on how we fill the vacancies I've talked to Residents who want to be on boards I tell them you know contact City Hall find out more information and this particular one I think we heard tonight uh Miss Freeman is also interested in applying I'd like to see our boards you know where we have options and applicants to serve um and this if it was filling a vacancy is it a is there any remaining term left in it is it the remaining months of the I don't think so okay so the vacancy confused me it sounded like if Miss Woodside um had resigned um that that that vacancy occurred at that point initiated filling that vacancy I guess I I did not understand if this was to fill the remaining term or is this a new be a new the the summary says it's filling a vacancy though right my recommendation to get to it is I would like to postpone this item um and bring it back at the next meeting I'm willing to come back early if there's an urgency to get this fix build and for a special meeting but around the the procedures uh to do this we've got it's it was a little confusing to me um I'm excited that council member Raymond is willing to step up and serve uh but I know that citizens in this community wanted to be on this board they did not know that this was open I want to help our culture and Leisure Services promote anytime a vacancy occurs or if we can get the boards I'd love to consider you know working through this uh in the community I went back into the meetings the Leisure service meetings and listen to I don't recall any conversations in those boards talking about the vacancy I think those board members would go out and communicate and so it's not anything that NE there's just very little in our code that sort of guides this process or in the bylaws that I could find and I think that we've got an opportunity to to fill all of our boards not just this one um and so with that my hope is that we postpone it and we consider an the applicant and any others um can I be up some help that would yes please so this vacancy has been vacant for quite some time last year we were only able to get two meetings off the ground because lack of quum so when Angela's um application was received we immediately got her on the agenda for the first meeting that she was going to make for the interview since then we have another vacancy for a gentleman that was not able to make any of the meetings the uh person that has applied for that vacancy which Miss Raymond was appointed tonight that vacancy that person would be interviewed at the May meeting of the culture and Le Bo and depending on their recommendation that person would appear at this meeting since uh this other applicant has uh submitted an application this week um that person will also be invited to participate in the main meeting and from those two people that are applicants that would fill the final vacancy in that Bo with for the first time in years so the vacancy today Miss Wood sites as we we recall is what we're considering tonight and you're saying there's another vacancy that will be coming up yeah Mr Holmes presign from the board at the couple weeks ago so um we have an applicant that we received an application for um shortly before he resigned and that person is on schedule to be interviewed in may he would actually be interviewed at next week's meeting but he had a work obligation so we had to move him off the agenda and move him over to so the city doesn't operate under a deadline or to say hey up until this date what the ability to even extend the deadline because it's really once you get an application we don't look for any other applicants and we just go forward with the one who submitted for this board historically in the 10 years as of today that I've been a part of this board um no one's been beating down our to participate sobody it's an application we speak with them in advance to let them know what the requirements are what the responsibility what the the level of Engagement that they're going to be expected to perform is if that checks all their boxes then we move forward with the interview process but we don't build up a a bank of applications if you don't because we've never had that luxury understood and I think that when we get this fied uh council member Raven stepped out of office we shared this this dis in the last day in November a month later the application is submitted and this seat's been sitting there for for a long time and we've posted multiple times on social media about volunteers and joining boards and then Daniel also included our board listed by name on the Marquee so and the amount of times I get people that talk to me about um either wanting to volunteer or the fact that we should rely more upon volunteers every application in their hand I don't get it back well I think we've it sounds like potentially three applicants including Freeman Miss Freeman and the another applicant that was submitted I think Miss Freeman's was submitted last week the gentleman and I think maybe the week prior it's the first come first serve that sort of gives me a little anxiety I want to work it's not for tonight this how do we do this in a way that has a close period and we can take in applicants I want to help make that problem exist where we do have just like you know we go out to bids and I agree every single board member that's walked up here it's the one in line who submitted we're all thankful for that person we appoint we interview we ask questions and it's in good faith that we move forward um on this one this board's really important I want to see uh hopefully more citizens get involved in boards I think they're out there and being able to uh than of creative ways to get these filled um I think could start with the procedures because the the truth is I've served with council member Raymond before talking to the council now and we've agreed and voted on a lot of things together as as a council we've done some really good stuff we rallied with A1A the roundabout we can go through the list there's good all the way through the areas where we disagreed respectfully was largely around culture and Leisure Services and the priority of how those funds were being spent in the projects and I'm in a position today unique as I said earlier where I'm in front of an an an applicant who I've had the ability to serve with and when I hear about the other applicants this is a circumstance where I think we have an opportunity and so my recommendation is that we postpone this until the next council meeting it's sat for several months and we bring back and look at the the all the applicants now that we've had two or three ignoring the other vacancies I think that when a vacancy is when a resignation comes in like you said having a period to say we're trying to fill this vacancy in 60 days please get your applications in if you don't get enough we can extend and other ways to do it but under this it's like we don't know when the vacancy occurs unless you're you know at the board meeting or I guess you wouldn't really know that there and then the the public yes I see things pop up but specifically culture and Leisure Service Board member you know vacancy exists I didn't see anything on social media that was specific to that I did see the Marquee I believe uh and maybe that was you know a part of the image and that's okay I get it I know what you're saying this is a circumstance where what I heard in the interview at the Leisure Services are not focused on the priorities and the the comments about stay in the lane as so just a philosophy as a worldview um Miss Raymond and me within this area there is a direct disagreement and we' and so I have nothing else to say other than I would be reluctant to move forward tonight without considering the other options so well I would disagree with doing that we can't punish M Miss Raymond she's applied what December these other res applicants have just done this I I agree we should support everybody but we have an application coming up and listening to you I feel that it's more a personal thing that you do not want to put her on this board which I have to respect your opinion I think we should go forward with the vote and then if you vote against her for whatever reason then you do but I think she's put in it for since December and she deserves to be on this board and then the other two can put in for the application for May so I just agree that we should postpone it thank you Council any I well we've we've gotten a recommendation by that board um so we're acting upon that board's recommendation and if there's another vacancy with two more applicants then that board is going to send us a recommendation between those two we're not going to see both of them or all three of them together we're just going to get that board's recommendation correct yes sir so I think uh we probably should move forward in my opinion with uh M Raymond filling out the that one board seat through October of this year council member Jackson Mayor protim any comments if you choose I do I have some comments um um I have a couple of concerns about this the first concern is I was in the city council meeting in the fall when there was a discussion with pickle ball and tennis and we all know that Angela's uh absolutely involved with tennis so I feel like with the rate that pickle ball is increasing that we could end up with a conflict of interests there but more concerning to me is what I know has happened based on information that I've gotten and that is that if you are on that board you directly have an impact on Election Communications via booths that are given out via Friday Fest and we've had multiple occasions in the past where certain candidates were not afforded at booth at Friday Fest so until we get that issue resolved to where we can come up with an an absolute uh alternative where no one that is running for an office in this city is rejected for space and Friday Fest which is election Communications then we should not have any council member not just Angela any council member on that board until that can be repaired because that manipulates and changes elections or has the potential to or the perceived potential to so for minimizing risk to the city and liabilities of lawsuits I think that needs to be repaired before we consider an any ex-council member or anyone of that nature that has sat on this Das to be on that particular board I just want to make sure everyone has a chance to go do you council member Davis I don't understand how being on a board is affecting an election um There are rules to getting a booth at the time you have to be put in request for it to be in on you have to request on time for a booth um I I just think that this is a personal thing I know and I I'm going to speak respectfully but honestly I know people on this Das are against the the Civic Hub and just because in the past Miss Raymond has said that she's for the Civic Hub and different reasons or for pickle ball or for tennis or whatever I mean I don't see where that has a conflict if it is a conflict because you're afraid that because you're against the Hub or whatever else and she might push an agenda through the board to to push those things for the Hub that's something I I just think is totally different and I disagree that I mean if you have a you know a difference than you vote no tonight but I think it's only fair to move forward I have no idea where I don't understand how it affects elections so I don't think the board has anything to do with that well if a person is running for office and they're not allowed a booth at Friday fest with notice and they're not allowed that that is affecting their election Communications now I'm not saying this has nothing to do with the Community the Civic cup for me it doesn't it is for free and fair elections because it's not just a personal experience of mine there have been other candidates that were refused a booth on that Friday Fest Okay order you can't you can'ts order point of order please what it's it was a good interview y for it's worth Miss jaon after the election of this past year we sat down and figured out a solution and that makes me so happy Molly but our board had nothing to do with that I don't but it it's a board that controls that is up under that board is am I correct they canine on it terms of like the day-to-day operations thing that ultimately like when we make determinations on the rules and stuff like that if it rises to the level as you're indicating it goes through City attorney and city manager well and and what I'm saying is I'm aware of multiple cases where candidates were refused and it should be a simple thing and it's not for whatever reason that that happened um if that board is involved with the recx center and Frid Fest at all that we need to fix those things first before we put a council ex counil member on there that's my opinion and I get to have that unfortunately it's not made Angela happy now it's not just you know the last election I'm talking about I'm talking about other elections so for me if we fix that and I'm so happy to hear that that's something that's been addressed um because if we fix that then any council member that wants to serve this community is able to do so without fear of having someone's First Amendment rights breached or anything else like that that could be literally put the city in a situation where they have a liability issue from a lawsuit so that's what I'm looking at it's not a matter of Who Wants What although we'd want to make sure pickle ball and Tennis are both represented I can't play either one of those so you know but in my opinion and and I was unaware that's been repaired to this point but in my opinion we need to make sure every candidate that puts a an application in and is qualified to run has the ability to be at Friday Fest to speak to the citizens in the city and give the citizens the availability to know every candidate that they have out there that's wonderful thank you you are there any other questions for Molly thank you Molly just I just want to say that I am embarrassed for this dis you have a great person that's been committed to this city and has given and donated so much time and she put in for this months ago there was an opening now there's going to be another opening next month and I I I just think it's shameful that you guys are using I I would say personal reasons um she had nothing to do with your election so um I I'm just in total disagreement with you I'll give the p uh any other questions for Molly Tina if you don't mind at the end I'll make sure to Circle back go I don't have thank you Molly um I think that councel are we okay with here would you like to speak Miss Freeman is that what your please come forward and once you get up there well I did want to clarify something um as far as the public publicizing um the board um availabilities the only time that I saw on the Marquee it said board advisory positions available apply it didn't say any one board in particular and I only saw it on the Marquee I look at the city govern PES I look at the Facebook pages and I never saw it I'm sorry but I never saw it publicized except for on that one time and it never specified a specific board secondly the way I found out about um a board availability was I was at the board appreciation dinner and inquired and I was told that there was an availability that's when I found out about it and I submitted my application right away upon hearing that news because I've been looking for that opportunity um and lastly I was at a a council meeting here when there was discussion about um doing a mailing to Citizens and doing a survey to Citizens and at that time Angela Raymond called myself and other residents here she called us stupid and and and uninformed and called you know was so condescending and nasty to US citizens sitting here in the audence at that meeting and I mean it was devastating to hear because we want to be involved and we're not stupid and we stay informed and we know what the issues are and um to be called out like that at that meeting was it was very very hurtful and um I so that's why you know I want to be on a board I'm a team player and I want to be on a board and serve the residents here and not be um spoken in such a way and so that's that's why I'm really wanting to serve and serve the citizens and I know that there's other residents who want to do the same but have not been provided the opportunity and it's not been well publicized thank thank you very much T yes and I think our procedures uh any applicants would go before the culture and Leisure Serv there's a a process I think if we can understand that process as a council it's an opportunity to eliminate some of these confusions because these vacancies pop up and the board who voted 5 in favor of recommending recommending uh former council member Raymond to serve on that board for my knowledge and understanding did not have any prior discussions that just appeared on the agenda and it's like the applicants in front of you and of course that's how we've done it in this circumstance I have uh it it is based on the positions taken behind this dis which is professional as it can get and I think the alignment with the citizens is is skewed and that's okay council member the former council member myself we get along we're all neighbors but when it comes to making these decisions uh if we want to rush the vote today I'm happy to vote no I was trying to postpone it to learn more and to consider more from my understanding count uh former council member decided I think said um you can have it or something to that effect I don't know if she's still willing to pursue it if not uh it it is I I don't think it's wise for us to proceed with this and the agenda summary I think said it was filling a vacancy this is for a full threeyear term or two-year term position and so I think if we it said ser until October 1st 2024 to to f okay so less than a year I and is that the ca not the case though I think it's going to go to 2027 no it says unexpired term that will end October 1st 2024 but I think our city manager clarified that that's what I clarified that it is an ex it's a vacancy Bill a vacancy voted to recommend her of the remainder of an existing unexpired term that will end October 1st 2024 and the resolution also says shall be appointed to serve until October 1st 2024 so it's an unexpired term I mean in March 2022 we're talking about two years this has been V this term is vacant due to a for so for two years this at vacant I didn't hear a whole lot and I know how to find this you can go on the website and you can see on the board roster our city clerk and whoever they do a good job of you can always find it that's not where my issue is my issue is is it's sat vacant overlapping with Council memb term right when she's out that that's filled and I've talked and you know with folks as we said and so this opportunity presents itself S I hope we can consider other applicants and I think we we postpone and if we're going to vote I I certainly would oppose Mr Mayor I think we need to just we just need to strike it at this point I mean at this point no actions necessary I mean the message I received from the applicant is that she withdrew she did so I mean that's that's the impression that I got mayor and and I don't think any action needs to be taken on this item and you can just move on to another item Council we're okay with that thank you okay and thank you all for your patience with that I am moving on to the next agenda item we've been through one and two of the consent uh item number three I see uh here is resolution 20242 amending the defined contribution retirement plan for the general employees of the city of Canaveral beginning in fiscal year 2425 so 2024 2025 budget providing the repeal of Prior inconsistent resolution uh and so I think city manager I see Melinda's here with us tonight if you would like to kick us off on this item sure um Melinda we hate to see you go and it breaks our hearts that she's leaving but this is a good time to introduce Natalie Haron Natalie if you'll wave your hand she's going to be Melinda's replacement um and she'll be here for the rest of her career I'm sure um Melinda brought this up um because she had spoken with Jeremy Button he's our league of cities representative that ad ministers the retirement plan and the City of Cape canaval employees do not have a a pension um we're not big enough to qualify for the Florida retirement system so we have what's called a defined contribution the city currently puts in 7% into a 401 One account for the employees there's a vesting period as well um currently it's um 5 years to get fully vested at four years you're 75 3 years 50 two years 25 and so on so that's 7% of the salary goes there but also the employees have the option to voluntarily contribute 3% of their money into an account that they can do it's a 457 account and the city um 20 years ago did both of these maybe it's a little more than 20 years set up the the 401 and the 457 if the city if the employees give 3% into that 457 of their own money the city as an incentive will match up to 3% and put that additionally in the 401 employees can put more than 3% in it the city Only matches up to 3% so Jeremy brought this up um and Melinda was discussing he was uh his email is in here where he talks about this standard best practices of the current market for public sector employees now keep in mind we can't compare our elves with private sector it's not a fair comparison for them or for us we have to compete in the market that we're in to attract and retain employees so that's what this is about is attracting and retaining employees and the recommendation is that we look at that and consider some adjustments so he gave um a handful of examples of other cities that um similar to us in size and a range of practices we're on the low end of all of that so the recommendation is that we move move that up um so there's a proposal in here that Melinda can talk about um we can do that proposal we can do something less we can do nothing we want to do nothing also Jeremy pointed out that the the vesting period that is is kind of an Antiquated thing for cities because um it it doesn't serve anything but a disincentive because it most public employers have dropped that in Florida where this five-year vesting thing and and it's not a significant thing for us to lose it entirely just drop it because the the money that is forfeited by employees who leave before they're vested goes into a forfeiture account goes right back into the city's general fund that forfeiture account only had received how much Melinda it was really minimal a couple thousand to $3,000 I think over yeah it's on attachment a the average over the last five years was 7,000 but um 2022 had a forfeiture of 20,000 which really skewed the data because that year after the pandemic people were and inflation people were looking for that extra dollar we lost corenza Stephanie Johnson Candace Blake Aaron ly Jim Moore we lost a lot of people who were not fully vested so our average forfeiture account per year is probably about 4,000 so it's it's really low except for the Great reshuffle and the things that happened after the after the co pandemic so in other words the point is that's low hanging fruit in Jeremy's opinion that we can easily just remove that festing period or maybe just put it after probation six month probation so really those are the two things that we're talking about doing is changing the contribution to the 401 in the match on 57 and reducing or eliminating the vesting period mayor thank you very much Council any questions for this is a resolution proposed uh any questions for staff we amongst ourselves yes excuse me um in in Reading uh Mr button's comments um he wasn't able to clarify on the vesting period for some of these more robust plans and um the worst thing for me from past business experience is to overstep and then have to claw back later um in my business practice I hesitated to hire just for a project which I know this we're it's not Apples to Apples here but the worst feeling I had was when that project was over and I had to let somebody go uh what I wouldn't want to do is is to maybe overstep what our position might be next year and then have to do one of three things we have to raise taxes cut services or lay off employees um I don't want to do any of that but I I do think we need to do better on this than what we currently are and I would like to propose a uh go to from 7% to 10% not the 11 and then remain at the 3% match which saves us about $92,000 over what the proposed is Mayor Pro Tim Kellum think want to repeat council member Willis your proposed I didn't get it all all right there the this proposal is to go to an 11% I think we should go to 10% and remain at the 3% match and if you look at the spreadsheet that they gave they their proposal would have been a $181,000 $181,300 I don't have my glasses on $ 31044 difference whereas that difference if we maintain the 3% match would be based upon the salary that we have here uh would be at a 92,93 71 difference yeah mayor protm I I didn't finish saying I should have added the proposal was go to go from 7 to 11 and from three to five um what um council member Willis is saying is don't do that instead just go from 7 to 10 and leave the three where where it is that that at least gives employees the understanding that we're trying and if we could do better later we but I think we should uh move in a cautious Manner and uh see where we are in another year or so thank you and so council member well I think you're referencing or at least attachment number seven which we have up here on the card the left side is kind of as today yes this is how we're we're operating with the 7% and 3% and then the proposed has 11 and five so seven and three is 10 11 and five is 16 so we were looking to do a 6% jump one way to and and we're saying it would just be a 5% increase 7 to 10 yeah 11 and no 10 and five 3% oh 10 and three it's a three thank you 3% instead of 6% thank you for clarifying council member Jackson or mayor for 10 council member Davis any other and council member Willis I don't know if you've had anything else no I'm um the vesting period I mean right as is proposed it would be the six-month probationary period um you know we could go to a one-year vesting period but I don't really think that gets us anything um I think uh removing a required vesting Peri period beyond their probationary period um gets them into the game quicker and uh the employee has a vested interest in staying long six months and and this would only apply to the initial six months if somebody takes a new position within the city they're under a six-month probation but this wouldn't this wouldn't peel that back right I agree with uh council member Willis um I think that um you know looking where we are and making uh you know I would rather give increment uh advances than give it and then have to take it back and you know it would be nice to stay to keep our taxes low for the residents and um also take care of our employees um I think maybe um 7 to 9% and keep the same 3% I mean I don't know what the numbers how that would change the numbers a lot but um you know i' go up slowly then make that big Jump N 9% would be a uh um roughly a $62,000 increase and going to the 10% would be a 90 $2,000 increase before we get too far down on the road with and I know a form motional hasn't been made we're just discussing it I just want to make sure uh make sure we got ask any questions I do have one if we don't mind if I jump in here because I think I can pick up where you left off but the the a uh attachment number six averages of best plans um can you explain what this is it's the best plans average out of 11% for 401a and 5% for the 457 I are is this the comparative analysis under entity are these actual entities that are just yes mayor um Morrison if you look at Jeremy button's email that should be um attachment five yes thank you attachment five his reply back to me dated February 14th is you know um it's not always clearcut but what the best because some of have longer vesting schedule too here's a few examples so he gave us the top ones that I included on that separate attachment where I was able to compute the averages and so this is the data where I you know was able to derive my numbers from Lind what do you mean by the top ones the best plans that Florida Liga city has currently for public identies and you know this hasn't been updated in over 20 years and the job market right now is really scary and the city staff you know we have a great team but I'd hate to lose a staff member because they can make an extra Buck someplace or they don't feel their investment plan is you know competitive so I just want to do my due diligence and Advocate on behalf of the city and for the employees and do the right thing before I leave thank you could I add a little perspective to this mayor after you're done talking out a little perspective absolutely uh I just want to make sure we so so there's no specific it says in that email that you referenced it says City Water Management fire district Wastewater these are other cities but we don't know they public who he's referencing or is he saying just an average city of they are public entities mayor and he said well I can request to find out their names for you but these are public entities just like the city that Florida Le of City handles yeah so to me you mean to I want to make a good decision and we can get into the numbers and certainly we want to be able to retain and attract but I I would like to learn a little bit more about who we're comparing ourselves to and John please your comments as far as long-term liabilities you know for the city and and moving forward and that's a concern and just general with the transition as Melinda is going on to a new chapter and we welcome Natalie in to help the parachute in and out um I think the whole uh Focus as we're heading into the budget this is a big financial decision every year we try to figure out what we can do to make our employees lives better in it if retirement if it's time to talk about retirement I'm ready to to do that but as far as my due diligence I'd like to learn a little bit more about what the cities near us are doing in these markets I don't I I assume we can these are all Florida based data okay Florida League of cities is the host so John I want to ask the council we're talking $992,000 a year at 10 yes the the 10% what I would like Council to do is from the financial perspective look outside the box here on what transpires when we're doing the budget last year Council had staff cut to reach hopefully you know the mil that want it roughly $600,000 off the budget um the year before three or $400,000 the point I made is this we have a CIP meeting in a few weeks and if council is looking at staff the importance of retaining staff $92,000 is a drop in the bucket when Council reviews those cips specifically for the general fund and they're going to see what's in those cips and some council members may say we don't need that now why do we need this $90,000 CIP why do we need this $10,000 $110,000 CIP so the point I'm making is you're going to see those things on April 4th and you are going to find things that and I've had talks with a few council members already concerning what approach they may want to take but you're going to find that some of those things are not that important and you weigh that against what we're talking here $90,000 to retain employees potentially for the next five 10 years and make us competitive if you think of it that way this is a very good thing to do this is an excellent thing to do think of it that way because on April 4th Council you will find things that you're going to want to cut out of those cips that you see now remember we're specifically talking about the general fund here okay so I want you to just look at the whole picture you can go and compare other cities and what have you but try to look at it from that perspective because when Council comes up in with the budget in July and starts looking on how they want to keep taxes down or whatever what are they going to ask the finance director and the staff to do John can you cut $300,000 off the budget to get the tax rate here or 400,000 well in the past we've done it so now Council has an excellent opportunity to support the staff support the employees and look hard at the cips on April 4th and mayor you'll find that $90,000 and you won't even have to think twice about it and it would have it would have been the best thing you did for your employees I'm just asking you to think from those different perspectives as opposed to thinking that w $992,000 you know so that's my comments thank you I would th those were some of the questions I have I'm not ready to to to move forward with this that's my position I can explain why I want to I want to retain employees and I want to figure out ways to to make that a reality but it's $992,000 a this is this year and then that will stay the same or will that that's going to more than likely increase every year if we retain employees this isn't a one-time Capital expense this is a liability we're going to service yeah if we retain employees retain employees but you got to remember something hold on I just want no we've got a lot to work through tonight okay okay I just think it was important to add in perspective but I won't make any more I won't make any more comments but you got to remember that the employees throughout the year there's an EB and flow of whether people come and go not that they'll be every year I'm just saying as the finance director this $92,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to decisions you're going to make on the cips that you see and you will pull some of those cips that's all I'm saying that's I'm just going on record saying that thank you mayor for letting me see thank you and I look forward to being able to you know compare different expenses employees is really important um mayor and thank yes um may I speak please so your question is when does this 990,000 take effect it'll be for the upcoming fiscal year 2425 and your next question was will this increase every year not necessarily I mean we just lost a um director of capital projects and he was making this much salary so what the city was matching and then contributing it's going to be H it's going to fluctuate depending on when you bring somebody else in lower so it's you know who knows it might be a $90,000 increase this fiscal year but next fiscal year you might lose a lot of top people and then have low people and it might only be a $70,000 difference but God forbid I'm sorry but I mean that number's going to go like this you know it's just going to be set but it's going to be based on roughly 50 60 employees today not all vested but I guess how how many was this number based off of the 92 or the proposed if you go to attachment 7 which was produced by Florida Le of cities on the left hand side for fiscal year 23 contribution amounts this was the numbers they provided us so you know my recommendation like we said earlier was 11% automatic contribution and 5% match that would that would have increased it to 100 81,000 but Council I'm sorry I just want to jump in and not that I'm I'm at we're attachment 7even okay this is based on how many employees our current full-time staff sir so how many we currently have 58 full-time employees so 58 full-time employees today are making or we're the city is contributing around 85,000 000 on those same 53 employees on the 3% match sir existing conditions today we already have that in our budget that's coming out but you only mentioned the 3% match you didn't mention the 7% which is 216,000 on the left there thank you both of those roughly over 300 th 302,000 up at the top is today based on the 58 yes sir employees yes sir and you kept that 58 as you're rolling in with this increase or did you increase and employees is that based on 58 too correct sir same okay just making sure please go ahead so my what I what I proposed was the 11% and 5% and if you see on the top right that difference would be 18 181,000 increase in the budget so that's the difference between my projected and the current council member Willis came back and he says that he would propose 10% which basically would make the difference 990,000 so that's the number 90,000 that we're all talking about 90,000 plus the 3% no 990,000 total so whether it's the 10% with the 3% it's going to be 990,000 increase per year and the The Proposal the difference up in the top right where it says 100 the proposed was 181,000 difference roughly 484000 a year going out opposed to the 302,000 correct but today that's been proposed to be cut in half essentially so that 180,000 difference goes down to 990,000 correct sir yeah uh so we're talking roughly yeah but that's every year we would contribute if assuming they they stayed plus or minus yeah it's a big decision for me and I know I just want to see how we compare to to the to the cities and I I'm not ready to do this this right now um it's hard to pass these things just before the budget it really is because um um so I'm not saying no I like the idea of of being competitive um and I'm thankful we're not tied into pensions that's bankrupting some cities and causing major Financial solvency issues and so we are more closer to the private sector right where we do a standard uh match and and these two funds here I think people who want to you know invest longterm and commit to the city are looking at retirement plans um so I'm ready to to take it up but with the transition I would like to talk and and learn and hear Natalie's perspective when maybe not tonight but whenever is appropriate as well um and study this a little closer so I'll unfinish and mayor you know me being your prior Finance Deputy too from a budget perspective I like to prepare and having this before the budget instead of oh we're already in new bus budget or fiscal year you know that money's not there do we take it out of contingency where do we grab it I think preparing strategically because I know we have our strategic retreat with CIP and all these projects and Capital Improvements but you know in my book strategically in HR it's the personnel and you know over 20 years this hasn't been addressed so but I appreciate all that you guys do and you know taking care of the staff and thank you thank you is there I is there an urgency about it it having to happen tonight I mean if it also comes to the strategic planning meeting and it's part of our plan does do we have to make this decision right now I mean because I I feel the same as the mayor I would like some more time to look over it I would like to know what cities nearby us do what cities our size do um you know same population kind of same budget some comparison yeah you don't have to make the decision tonight mayor protim you know we can come back circle around do other comparisons you know because I think all of us wants what's best for the city and best for the staff and we definitely want what's best for our employees we want to keep them but we also have to think of the big numbers yes and I mean ideally it is budget season so it's nice to prepare your timing is good to to as long as yeah tonight wasn't the decision and are there any other comments anything I I just want to be sure that when we go into the CIP discussions that we keep this as close to the four as possible absolutely uh because if we let it slide into the background I don't want to see July come around and August and we're trying to cut so I I want to be sure that we have this absolutely in that budget or or something as close to this as possible um and like the uh Mr Deo said I'm sure we can find other things to cut but uh it is incumbent upon this Council to do the cutting we can't Farm it off to somebody else to do because they're doing our bidding for for us and they're bringing us their best options and it's going to be us that has to make those tough decisions and not not have it on other people to do last year's budget we gave the employees a raise and we figured out what other things to cut to make sure they got their raise so this I feel is the same this is important for our employees but I really don't want to make a decision right now tonight I would like to get closer to the budget and um get some more information mayor protim that big raise that we had was actually two years ago after the 2022 inflation the only thing that we did for our employees this past this current fiscal year was a 2% cost of living increase God that was two years ago already I know and I got more gray hair okay but it was it I thought it was three there's a 3% Merit up to a 3% Merit on their ual evaluation and a 2% cost of living um before we close marriage one more comment um the larger cities have pension plans we can't even there's no point in even bringing that data here it's it you find these types of defined contributions in the smaller cities and keeping in mind that Council wants to see some more local data on this there's not a lot of it we can get what we can get but I think when we think of an employer an employees Market they're not only only looking in bravard County so I think we need to cast that that a little wider and get more more data than just what Bard county has agreed I'd like to have some in the greater region you know some Statewide and comparing uh some cities uh so thank you and if it's okay then um we Natalie bring us back for the Strategic not it's not a strategic Retreat I don't know what we're calling it that it's a CIP Workshop yeah this is really an ongoing overhead fund a change to the overhead out of the general fund right and this is talk about this this this thing is not has nothing to do with cips in terms of our capital projects but when you put it in perspective like the mayor protm was saying you know and then you know you could take a look at it uh depending on what you may cut or whatever and see if it fits into the budget but I think uh and I applaud Melinda for working on this just before she left us because it's an awesome uh awesome item that we needed to do you know we haven't done it in 20 years and now we got an excellent HR coming up behind us Natalie and she'll be able to get some good data I'm sure thank you all is the official official auction then to table this or and also mayor Morrison I agree that we need to this is perfect timing because we're going to be in the budget or into the budget here soon um also I think it's important since it hasn't been looked at in 20 years but I'm an analytical person so I want to know who these examples are I want to see that type of information I also like uh councilman Willis's suggestion because it's a worst to go in too high and then strip things out as far as an employee we want to make sure that we're uh giving staff what they can work with but that we're being smart about how we do that and make sure that we you know give them the support that they need 20 years is a long time to to have that knot be updated agreed and melindo I wish you the absolute best and hope that your your journey is peaceful prosperous whatever you wish so thank you for all you've done to to help our city I appreciate that thank you yes thank you to miss you so mayor no action has to happen because we don't have a date certain to table it to we could just take no action on it with the understanding that consensus is we'll revisit this item at the CIP Workshop thank you and thank you for putting this together thank you city manager great thank you sir thank Youk thank you John thank you Natalie everyone who is involved with that I I'm looking forward to taking the next step let's we are at 8 o00 on the dot I propose we take a a brief press uh been two hours now I think and we will pick up at item number where are we five five thank you uh you know what are we are we holding anyone up for the tiger Dam um our it's not a problem okay we can come back to that come back good okay let's see is 8 let's um let's do 8:15 and if we come back sooner 8:10 we can come back at 810 and I got a I need to circle with you Todd I'll be right back thank you so thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we're uh 8:15 we'll get started here few 30 seconds I say if Council we're ready okay so all right call the meeting back to order it's 8:15 p.m. we are on item number five we're at a regular city council meeting here uh under the consent agenda item five is to approve the purchase of tiger Dam flood barrier system for the City of Cape Canal Community Center C5 that's the multi-gen as we've referred to in the old past and uh in the amount of $ 47,2 183 and authorized the city manager execute the same city manager maybe just a I I pulled this because my questions were largely around it stated that it was uh cost prohibitive and we received the cost on the uh flood barrier that was already deployed um the but in the on the page uh do we know the cost of what it would take to outfit with the the barriers and I guess the question is is it possible or yeah thank you mayor and Zach thank you for being here at the lecturn um and the mayor and I did speak about this during the break and the question essentially is is there another method besides the dam method that could be used on that store the large expanse of storefront glass that is cost effective I'll get you okay okay um from our research we couldn't really find anything that we thought was conceivable to achieve the same level of flood protection as what we have here that also didn't require some type of structural modification to the building which is what we don't want to do uh this is a completely uh passive system that is non invasive to the structure uh there are other systems but I do not believe that they are up to the caliber that these are uh in terms of your Roi that small price is pay for possibly saving millions of dollars wor infrastructure inside the facility so we felt comfortable going with this proposal uh also just due to the versatility the front of the building is very diffult to protect with standard flood protection measures such as the ones that we already have like at the water treatment plant with the metal flood barriers unfortunately the design of the facade of the C5 doesn't really lend to that sandbagging would just be really impractical in a storm situation to the level of footage You' have to do to sandbag them so that's why we at that cost do can we go to the the first image attachment one um this is a photograph of the Water Reclamation facility flood barriers those go flush right up against the door the the normal operations that's how it is today and if I understand corre when the procedures of a storm's coming we we we install or attach that metal strip that's 3T 6 in correct sorry that's it's about 3et flat 3 6 in would be the height of the tiger so that's 3 feet 36 in high blood or uh flood uh barrier and the back door The North Door of the C5 that one has already been ordered it's like this yes they they will be identical to this those are standard doors that had infrastructure that made this type of installation possible and so standard doors at works but we did not are we saying it's impossible or just I guess was there ever a quote on the metal flood barriers for the front and the storefront style doors of any sort do we know the cost yes I believe that one was about 3 36,000 um we did look at doors to this for the E for the Eastern emergency exits that goes out the stairwell and for the Western glass door that is under the stairwell in the southwest corner of the building and then the storefront uh style the side in the front we did look at ones that were in the form of where you would install physically into the brick and concrete a bolting system that had these uh small metal um guess would be the best way to to say it where metal slaps would feed in and create like a plank system and would stand the storefront we didn't want to go with that because it would create damage to the infrastructure that we have and it would be a little bit more um take a little bit more time to install for sure and it wasn't as customizable in the sense because with the tiger Dam you can easily wrap around corners at 90° angles or weird obstructions one that we looked it was possible but it was just pretty inflexible literally un figuratively so possible 36,000 roughly in costs plus the changes and modifications that need to be happened to that style door it which gives us 3 feet of protection and these flood barriers for I guess more money yeah the other way gives us six more inches correct you look at it too is you know with these systems they're great they do their job very well but they're immobile so once they're fixed to a particular door that's your door with the tiger danam system for whatever reason we wanted to we could transfer it to another facility or Street or lift station to make a really quick uh FL protection system with the barriers with this purchase order we would have 240 ft with tiger Dam so say the C5 was safe for whatever reason but because the tiger dam is Deployable from a box you could take it to another facility or some people pie of infrastructure and deploy it there so that's another cool alternative to why the tiger Dam thought was better well yeah I think it's 250 240 ft of three stacked it's actually 750 ft of if you did linear right truec and so that was where one high is what was the the the the depth that one does should be about 24 in yeah so one is two feet then you put one right beside it doesn't provide any extra it's literally double your money to just create the foundation and then the third one adds the height not proportional though if it's three feet you get there's some compression in there the compression so there's some losses in efficiencies and so for all that money you know I I wanted to see this other cost so to to change to get six in higher to me it was a it was a lot more money I I have not the tiger brand but I have these for my house the blow up inflatable the ones that Ace Hardware sell oh yeah and I I fill them with water same thing and uh provides the protection I like the idea of the city having the ability to redirect water just period on streets flooding if it's in I know that best practi is they can set these up and make the water redirect and so the ability to use them in other areas is great uh but I think it's and it's not even as much about the damage as it is for me uh is just having a place that's reliable because we have insurance and FEMA and all the federal the funds the damage gets fixed we don't want to do it but having I think you described it as a you know a place that could be utilized um in in the area uh right basically picking up as quickly as possible after a storm with the facility given that it's remained structurally intact relatively dry as opposed to being gutted from time SE situation yeah and so I'm trying to figure out uh to me 47 I mean it it's a lot more money and the last thing is I went to the site today and had a chance to walk and look and the C5 is built up off the ground there's steps that go up to some of these doors all of them and so I haven't seen the Topography of this area I understand the flood risks with category two and three storm surge uh in here is high but it is built in a way you know I don't know if it was Factor that's built up I would be okay with adding you know a layer or two but I really like the the Simplicity of the the the storm doors and how quick they are to deploy employ and maybe getting some of these for for other options but 47,000 is a lot of money and the way I look at this is you know we invested in this C5 and the total price tag for it every year we're adding more because you know we're trying to make it and it's an an investment within the community that this adds another 40 50,000 to it um I for for 37,000 I guess we could have the metal doors but there's issues those are my thoughts that's why I paused that's why I wanted to pull it uh again going into the budget we approve this was approved I think you uh 40,000 we had and we've already spent some of the funds it was approved for 55 55 thank you we do have the money and the 48 that's what's left thousand is left and the amount is 47 47 okay so it is 197 I mean $200 a foot I mean if I take 240 feet that we're going to have in coverage and we divide it yeah that's a lot of money um $4 47,2 183 divided by 2440 $197 a foot now linear feet if we but we're not going to use them that way we're going to be able to protect 240 linear feet but I guess Technically when you add it all up 47283 divided by the 750 ft of not seing it's $63 a foot and so that's to me that's a I'm not try I mean that's a lot of money sitting here wondering I'm sitting here wondering and I'm new I'm the new council member do we negotiate on these things I'm going to tell you that because I know that a lot of government um agencies at the federal level they just don't negotiate you know 500 for a hammer we just get the hammer right I mean is there Zach tell me is there room for negotiation with these guys could you go back and say you know what they won't give me 47 but they'll give me 39 do they do that with us and system only reason extends around the building to the east and west p is to cover up any additional windows for example there's a window that is far off into like the grass a traditional system with the flood bearers the metal I can't that that gotta so you would be leaving parts of the building exposed and also there's external drainage piping it leads down from the roof that water could penetrate into that's on the side of the building just past the east stairwell door barrier like a metal like that or it was there I wouldn't be able to protect and then I had another question about the construction of it just because the weather in Florida is so interesting as far as what it does to things so in comparison with the and I assume those doors that we saw were steel stainless steel it looks like are they okay and the material of those dams which one lasts longer the dams the tiger dams shelf life of 17 to 20 years okay they will be hopefully mostly in storage okay but they're warrantied for five yes that's really what we can count on which is good I mean five years but after that uh one of mine had a hole in it uh and I know these are more industrial but yeah maintenance they've put these through some pretty dramatic tests I think the thing that really sealed it for me was seeing it being deployed up in northeast or excuse me yeah Northeast Florida after Hurricane Nicole to what was left they literally put these on the beach against the ocean itself and they survived it took them down for turtle season but um that was pretty high open to see that do we have do you have a link to like a video of that or whatever because that was one of the things that I had a question on Zach it wasn't there was a link in okay I missed because the ones that I saw were not during the storm so I must miss that one I thank you cuz I think that's interesting I saw that I think basically what it comes down to is I can't guarantee you as much protection with the metal plank system as I probably could with this so given that the building South the side is complicated and not everything could be really protected with the metal system given that some don't have the appropriate concrete SES or pads like primarily the windows thank you yeah to me it's elevation I took photos I mean I'm not sure we need the the the extra six in I know that doesn't answer the the installation the ease but I guess again going into the budget we this is how it happens from my experience is we've got these items we we approve them we and then we find out new information or New Opportunities and then we're s already extended into the budget and I did not know you know what this looked like I guess the the way that we negotiate is we usually put things depending on the type is out to bid and so I don't know if this one met the criteria for a bid or if it was but we have to follow the purchasing policy for all of this three quotes this was a bid we was getting three quotes three quotes actually we got more than three quotes yes what have you just um can you if you just did the southwest corner of the building to the southeast corner of the building because there is a step up mm on both sides of you have you figured out how much that would be just to cover and not go down the sides it would be less than $47,000 yeah but I don't know the exact cost I guess what you're saying is what I alluded to earlier is where you could do phasically a flood barrier door like what's on the screen on the building's um Western glass door and then you could make a tiger Dam systemic to just the front facade we could take care of one on the other side on the on the east side of the building with a flood barrier a metal flood barrier and then yeah so basically what we' be doing is we would be getting rid of the one on the east side the one on the west side and then containing it to the storefront windows so that way at least the windows could be covered protect as well as the double doors right and I'm not mining one one two I mean on that West door just putting one adding another 6 in cuz it's already off the ground my rough to about two three foot above grade uh ccil member Willis um yeah on the U the flood barriers the the metal flood barriers did that $36,000 cost include installation no we installed them okay of putting in the mounting slats if you will is St time okay tiger Dan system only St time when the need arrives okay I have a question too it says that you can fill it with a fire hydrant where's the fire hydrant I mean would there's no hydrant but there is a water source the Southwest or yeah southwest corner um there's a concrete pad right there south of the vegetation uh just to the right of the last handicap spot oh yeah okay but I mean if you once it's filled you can't move it no you're not move it so how would you get it around the building but fill it from there well we would roll it out fix it together and it's interconnecting pieces and then we would run hosing to reach oh okay and do we have the hosing yet or would that be something we have hosing and then how would you deinstall it what would happen with all that water you empty it we could put it into the Park's existing exfiltration system that was the other thing is that I did I understand the storm Char Maps but that's sitting right next to the ball fields with aund or million gas a capacity next to it it's built off elevated I mean it looks resilient and and it's overbuilt to some but to and then under underneath the C5 didn't we do some we didn't do anything there underneath it like we did for City Hall oh the storm dra fall exilation or drainage under the old basketball courts no okay you do have to remember too in a storm Sur situation those tanks would be fully underwater yes okay so these are also pretty specific to you know they could obviously deal with an urban flood situation with water rise from rain or coming out through the drains from a backflow but I think their real Merit lies in their ability to stop a physical storm surge with water coming in from the ocean like we saw with hurricane Ian oralia in the last two years where there were facilities that remained unprotected they basically they weren't washed away but they were severely damaged so these types of systems like that hold up really well so a single one gives us two foot here and then it's one or three which isig the two but we got to buy yeah one of the tubes or three there's no reason to ever buy two you would want to buy two and so it's here's the price or you triple it basically and that's why it it jumps to get that extra I mean extra height the it it's a it's just an area that jumped out that um storm surge I get it um I wish that there was a better a better price out there um I don't know if there was other titer Dam competitors like within that specific like almost identical type mine's Quick Dam I think is another company but uh probably don't scale up to the size that we want yeah no I don't think our residential is all they do from what I understand but that's Council any more questions I I was just another question yes mayor per Tim um in a hurricane when there's a storm surge like that there's also a lot of wind what protects all those glass doors in the front of the C5 they're impact rated they protect themselves oh that's good very thi yeah so they're rated and the building itself was designed to withstand 160 m hour I have another question this place would be a fortress right and I have another question yes okay so in the case of a hurricane that came ashore and we're looking at protecting this particular building um Zach what is the as far as all things in regards to services that we provide for Citizens or anything else is this the top item you would protect at this time yes well we've already done we've already done the water recation facility thoughte water yeah so with trying to stick within the budget we could certainly surround other facilities but we just won't be able to stick within the budget so um that facility can fit within the budget the specific portion we're looking at uh that we've been allotted from Council and uh in terms of physical proximity to the ocean it is the literal closest city facility but which one would be most important in Disaster Recovery Sheriff's Department's pretty important probably the sheriff's department I don't think we'd be able to afford it but that would be my next my next uh my next facility or City Hall we actually did scope City Hall it's possible that it just was over for this particular system would have been over $100,000 to surround the building and see and I'm asking these questions for a reason because if we're spending money on flood protection I I'm concerned that we s spend it in the right spot because you know what I've been on this island during a Hurrican and after I'm one of the ones that doesn't leave I sit out here and watch things float by usually so you know I want to ensure that we're not putting something on a building protecting it when there's something for continuity of government that's more important she's H the point that we are looking like well 47 for this we have other facilities our first responder City Hall and so when we're doing the math across the board it's going to be a lot of money yeah I wouldn't with this budget I wouldn't be able to fully protect any other facility given the perimeter footage but I would say to that that's a good point we have long-term plans that have already been enacted to the for the C5 to turn it into what's called a resilience Hub where it basically becomes the logistics and staging hub for dis situations for the city so it would become a critical facility no one would ever stay there during a storm we're on an island we can't have a shelter here that would be too dangerous but if the facility is intact which we're slowly with Surly designing it to be ready to go another recent example of this recent addition of the lightning suppression system on the roof um the thinking is that after this after a storm goes by and it's a storm that you know takes a punch like the community has been hurt there are people that need help we would transform the facility Emergency Operations Partners the Sheriff's Office and can fire rescue into a point where people could come and have food water supplies and Communications distributed um we have an outstanding Grant with the state to install a battery energy storage system in the facility that can tie into the existing solar array so protecting these assets with this type of system is why another reason why we want to choose the C5 to be able to keep building towards that goal of turning it into that outward facing resident facility when something bad happens whether it's a storm or not you know doesn't have be a hurricane and I have one more and then I'll give it up and let someone else ask what so do you feel like that building would take a a punch from a storm because I saw a building um during Jean and there were gusts of 175 back over the bridge going towards the base so and those were gusts but I saw buildings on the front uh or ocean front that were 30 years old that barely took a punch and then you went down and there were newer buildings that literally were the fronts of them were completely gone and you could see into their condos and everything else and all their possessions gone so if we were looking at a storm and looking at a disaster like that would is would that building be more sturdy for a storm of that nature than City Hall for example I they would hold up both pretty well hopefully Ty you're correct me if I'm wrong but this building was also built to pretty similar standards they they were both built to 160 which is which is a requirement of the Florida building code for the use right and that is great to know I'm appreciative to know that also know that a tree flying at 165 miles an hour makes no difference to an impact window you know so that's the thing that concerns me about using the C5 as for continued operations although it has more space and that kind of thing so just those were just some questions I had thank you Zach I appreciate your answers any other questions for Zach anything else you want to add Zack um I don't think so um I just add again it was a it was a budgeted item we just put the L through on it if I could I would love to get these installed uh or at least ready by the hurricane season um uh part of what comes with this purchase is also included training for City staff how to operate these which is really nice so we would incorporate into the city's tropical cycl and preparedness recovery plan making a mandatory training session for staff as we do already for those metal flood barriers that you saw with Public Work services the leader services and really any City employee that wants to so um upon a purchase order we can have them here within about five to six days so it's pretty quick turn around that way we can be climatized to them and know how to do it the season starts fact I have a question if we if we shorten the instead of going all the way around the sides just to the two corners and protected do you think that that would be enough to make sure that it was ready for after a bad storm for people it would save the building do you think that's enough protection I do okay those windows keep up at night so protecting those would be my top priority this this particular system well I would be in favor of getting a price for the smaller you know not going all the way around the side of the building to the front and I think it's important that we have this facility for the residents and after God forbid a a bad storm so Zach can you add like if we bought at a certain length can it be expanded later good question it can it can a modular design okay and that's a big thing too because that means we can buy a little bit smaller and add to that which would give us the ability to be flexible with it if we needed it for another location and needed to add to it so thank you so much I appreciate that so yes thank you mayor protim Kellum are you saying uh could we look at Zach said budgeted item I think we were hoping to get more and you know when we we look at the quote it it I see the training $2,500 um you know you can whittle a little but the reduction in size you're saying keep it three foot high but just cover less of a yes the area just from the you know the corner to corner corner to corner yeah yes we have enough fing get as described in the agenda yeah so I mean the money is there to use it to full effect I guess could be argument as get the BG B for could as you were saying council member say we went ahead and got what it is now and then we only did we still only protected the corner to corner we would have extra left over to do whatever we pleased with it if you wanted to go that rout too so you look at getting maybe two facilities worth purchas will you be setting it up uh if if it was purchased next week or at least some of it could we set it up for the community I guess when you go out and do the training is that when we could do that we could we would normally have done it within the the public works yard at first just to get a feel for the system but I did Envision one day doing a full scale demonstration and seeing it both for ourselves to see how it works and for the public I do think that would be a very enlightening thing to see to show a real demonst hey you know this facility is going to be protected with this specific system this is how it works please don't climb over it so kind of thing yeah yeah I like that make sure you let City Coco know so they don't charge us for sewage rate I'll write that down I have one more question and that is um since we have the title valve being installed in early May um if that title valve sucks everything out of the storm system and which I'm really excited to get to see the impact of this do we know if we would be needing this before we get that installed to see how it works are we certain that we need this for anything other than a huge storm surge yes um I don't know Tod you correct me wrong if the C5 is actually on the same Center Street B that might be International Basin yeah that far north the the Center Street Basin ends in the presidential streets probably just south of that a couple streets it's different title not affect dra okay that's what I wanted to know thank you another good reason water bons member Willis yeah um I know that the the title valve is going to alleviate some of the flood the flooding issues on presidential streets but it if we had an event similar to the flooding on the streets a couple years ago how quickly could this be deployed on a street on the street probably within an hour but if we were to have an event like what you're talking about we would have warning for that City gets updates from the National Weather Service via the count Operation Center so our inst command team would say to Public Work Services hey there's a really good chance today that we might see a flood situation we're going to Stage the dam at this particular Street and have a water source ready to go and deploy as needed so it could be pretty quick um instant no unfortunately but with enough warning it could be relatively quick and we could coordinate with the Sheriff's Office to say you know we know which streets will flood more so than others so we could stage it and even fill it if we want it and say Hey listen we're going to do it because we know it's about to happen we could coordinate with the sheriff's office to get the street you know prepared for that worse comes to worse they have been used to on streets okay thank you thank you any other questions thank you Zach appreciate it and I think now so the matter before us is to approve the purchase of a tiger Dam flood barrier system of the city uh of cap Canaveral Community Center C5 in the amount of$ 47283 this is basically going to Def finish out the budget we heard ideas from mayor protim about uh reducing the coverage area I.E the price uh heard some good points about deployment uh and and you know comparing that to the cost to to get it set up other facilities was another good point that I heard I would Al just like to go the other way not only limited for this but what would it cost to protect I mean for them if it's a quote all the Bard County or Sheriff's cap Abal Precinct uh fire C5 City Hall I guess it's Cape Center I mean any because the other would you know the more you buy sometimes you get a deal or that maybe it opens up another product for us or something and so that's just my the last thought of where my head would go is you know if that is in our plans to make all of these buildings usable in in recovery for preparedness I understand this priority um being a a resour and it's two stories high that's the other part even if the bottom does flood you have the ability to occupy a second love the first just because thatal ground to host those of recovery efforts supplies staging seating cooling centers kind of thing so you could even you know roll in through the double doors in the back golf carts so if we needed out of there that's quick up say a resident had golf carts coming through could throw throw up water keep going like an aid station a lot of Versatility that the building offers us that we don't have at the moment so it's nice and I would like to see if they would have any leeway with us on price if we were protecting the the services that we need to protect during a disaster because rard County sheriff is very important during a disaster and so are those uh First Responders in Fire and Rescue so if we could get everything covered at a better price and have more of this to deploy that could really be a good thing for us do that I'll just be honest with you but if you want me to put more money into the next fiscal year budget for more systems I'd be happy to do that I want you to ask I'll ask okay I'm one that I ask I love asking I yes I have this saying you you ask for the moon if you get a star you're happy so I last okay so do we want to do anything tonight with this um I would say to move forward with this the money's already budgeted if we can get a shorter one that will do the same protection and save some money in the budget or the money that's already there to go ahead and do it and then look into getting the other you know prices for protecting the other places but let's start with this I like the idea of having a demonstration to show the residents that this is going to be protected and this is where you'll be able to come so you know I would like to make a motion that we go ahead with this in the shorter version of it and go ahead and get the C5 protected okay got a motion by mayor protim to proove as written essentially yeah just with I think it'll be less than this if we go with a shorter am I right Zach may I yeah may I just say we've already budgeted for it and the if we have the full thing that you've recommended we have more protection so if it's already budgeted why should we go for the shorter we should just go for it saves the money yeah but it we have the budget and it will protect the building even more so I would go by with Zach's recommendation I trust your recommendation so I would go forward with this but I would go as Zach has written it okay because you're not talking very much money the difference in it we've already budgeted it's already budgeted guess once the money goes goes yeah so that's we don't want to lose the money either so I well I mean if we saved $10,000 wouldn't it we could use it somewhere else for some storm water protection somewhere else this is being budgeted to from the C so it has to be specific to the C oh okay yeah so and I I don't know what I can really get you for about 10,000 so I I would suggest moving forward as is I guarantee you get you something good what we got here so okay gotcha all right okay so we got a motion on the floor and I think I'm G to change my motion to accept as written go for the money and it's budgeted let's protect the building I I'll second it if you're approving as written yeah okay I'll second got a motion by mayor ptim Kellum a second by Council so member Davis uh to approve it as written my comment uh uh in the contract page 67 the canellation of the seller uh the seller may terminate any agreement formed has been accepted with immediate effect where are you at buyer I'm at page six of seven of the PS industry's contract uh this is attachment PS Industries is not the correct company oh what am I am am I did I jump you would want us FL control thank you sir uh gson NOP Garrison it is Garrison the first one that one okay and the terms in the conditions uh are right there uh the where does it talk about cancellation we buy this how long do we have uh I don't see anything all sales final or is there a return policy because we get it we don't like it um I would want to have that ability before moving forward because Le part of me is just understanding it and if we have the ability to to the other ones talked about cancellations I so um if that can be addressed I think we would want that City attorney do you can I think do do we want a return policy the ability if you know three day I mean 90 days UN in the Box the other ones have it so okay I know things are budgeted I know we say that but you know going back to the budget it's a big budget I did not support the budget and but I do support flood prevention and you know this is more about response it's not prevention and new things pop up throughout the year and so as we're moving forward this is one that's it's going to be unlikely if it's needed hopefully it's never needed truthfully but if if it is it is nice to have you you know I just think about what's the cost to rent and have these deployed ahead of a meeting you know could we use them and you know for other communities and rent them out ourselves and get some of the money back but 50,000 is a lot of money so that's it I think uh those are my comments I would want to see a contingent or some sort of approved contingent on getting a comparable return policy amended in there if it doesn't exist that's it any further discussion I I would like to see a return policy or the potential of one I I think it I think it's just a a phone call so um I mean I would approve I I would vote for this contingent upon an acceptable return policy agre so do we need to make a new motion well I think the motion on the table is approve as written and then you can amend it to add in a a return contingent on return policy okay comparable if you anyone can make that amendment to add that in I'll make a motion to amend the purchase to be contingent conent upon a comparable return policy got a motion by council member Willis second by council member Davis to to amend the main motion for comparable uh return policy any else city clerk council member Davis or council member Jackson for mayor protim Callum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for okay the amendment to the main motion passes and then the motion still on the floor as amended uh we've got a motion in a second there's not any further discussion city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum mayor Morrison four council member Willis four okay motion passes 50 thank you for your time Zach and working through that with us everythings out definitely keep you in the loop about when we would do a demonstration for the community and we would publicize it just probably have to let everybody know the building might got limits for a few hours take the pick pick ball game somewhere else but uh we'll get it done thank you thank you all right so we are now through uh items one through five I.E the consent agenda uh which brings us to item number six uh which is an item for Action to approve the time date and location for a Joint Council educational Workshop meeting with the pnz board regarding green storm water infrastructure and low impact development codes and program incentives um city manager any comments yes sir this is the joint education Workshop that we discussed last month Council gave three suggested dates for that Workshop pnz board uh members um the most that can attend and Dave I think it's all agreed March 27th would be the ideal one from 6 pm to 8:00 pm which is next Wednesday we just need Council to ratify that date next so the proposed date is Wednesday March 27th yes sir six o'clock so we would have the CIP workshop at 100 pm on March 4th oh that's March April 4th I mean thank you sorry I think that was an old date we were when Lisa was working through okay so that that CIP is not happening that day um Council any issues with now this is yeah next basically next Wednesday yes sir okay any issues with that date I think I can make that work um and that'd be the only meeting that day yes sir what did I think I thought they would we were pairing it up with another meeting maybe I'm mixing um with with another item okay what do you think do we need need a motion 6 PM I was told I could leave and come so I was told I could attend okay yeah looking for um the motion to ratify is that what you said Todd um ratify or approve uh the date of March 27th for the joint educational meeting make a motion to approve March 27th as joint meeting with pnz I'll second okay I got a motion by council member Willis second by council member Davis to uh approve the date discussed any further discussion good I'm good okay city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor Pro Tim Cullum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for motion passes 5 thank you very much looking forward to that we're now item for discussion uh we have the one on here number seven lowering golf cart registration to gain compliance submitted by mayor Pro Tim Kellum mayor protim yes FL is yours first of all I want to explain loow I'm sorry I made a mistake on it says loow instead of lowering but we didn't catch it either nobody caught it it's it's an actual word look it up it's funny oh my goodness all right um I just through observation and um being around the city I've I've noticed lately a lot of golf carts on the sidewalk still and I was wanted to discuss with Council maybe different ways we could um get people to become more compliant to co- ahead and get their sticker in the city um I know I talked to Commander kek about um what he his thoughts were and he said that you know you don't want to lower it too much because you don't want you know everybody running all over the place but the the actual cost of golf carts and you know to make the golf cart compliant to our uh code is very expensive and so I think that takes care of that part I know myself I have a golf cart it's an older golf cart it's fully insured and it's in my carport because every time I go to bring it down here to register it something else goes wrong so I'm working on it but um I have other people in my neighborhood that have golf carts and I said why you know why haven't you guys gone and got the tag and they're like it's way too much money you know um just for us to be able to ride up to the store or go to the library or whatever we it's a lot of money so I'm looking to discuss with the Council on maybe lowering the initial fee is $150 um maybe lowering that and keeping the annual fee at $50 and what your thoughts were and maybe we could promote it as you know this is a way to cut down your carbon footprint um an alternative transportation um for the city it's fun and it's there's no um carbon footprint or whatever you want want to say um and gas prices are never going to go down so um you know it's an alternative but I was just wanted to discuss with the council what your thoughts are on how we could promote this maybe better or get more people to be compliant with um you know our code for golf carts I just have a quick question um you say your our fees are higher than most surrounding cities have you spoke to those cities I mean like what are the prices what surrounding cities are you talking about like what are their prices where do we compare our is high our initial $150 is high Satellite Beach is like $45 a year and 75 to register um Coco Beach is a little higher Holly Hills which is you know Inland from us their fee is $40 flat out um a year um yes so you know again I don't want to make it too low but if if we could get more people to be compliant and get them off the sidewalks by maybe giving in a giving a break for um registering uh it's just an idea um I'm hoping that I can get my golf cart down here to get it registered I and you know like you talk about the cost I just had to put new batteries in the golf cart and they're $800 so it's not an inexpensive thing it's you know it's takes money so um and I think that kind of curtails everybody and their brother having a golf cart because it's expensive do you know how many golf carts they have versus us like how many Coco Beach has registered or any I mean do you know the comparables um in Satellite Beach they have a lot of registrations I don't know the exact amount but they um you know they have a lot of and I think their annual um income is like $115,000 a year income from the registration um and I don't know maybe Brian could tell us how many people have registered here and but Commander kek did say that they have not had they've talked to people that are driving them but they haven't given any tickets or anything so maybe that's a way to get people to be compant but there hasn't been any real problems with the golf carts electric bikes though are on the other hand we are having them on the beach the during spring break on the sidewalk that on Ridgewood is a different story based on this month this month golfs oh yes they're everywhere but are they registered that's the thing you um this one of the ones I saw parked on a public Boardwalk access that has no parking spaces um it was registered had a tag you know registered with the city I don't know but it had a state tag on it right so um what I'm experiencing down on the beach side is that a lot of our short-term rental investors bought in the middle of the island and when people come to stay for their vacation they often want they naturally want to be at the beach when you're walking in the heat from the middle of the island to the beach boardwalk that's a stretch they dropped their prices nightly and weekly rates for a while and then bam golf carts popped up everywhere and you will see them parked as you go through the city in vacation rental short-term rental properties so that gives them a way to use that um as a a an amenity to assist to get guest to the beach without them you know having a heart attack in August or September walking down there carrying all their care so I think that we have two different types of golf cart users here because I I know some people that are residents full-time and part-time residents that use them um but also we've had a real increase in the ones that are being provided through short-term rentals makesense and a lot of those have no idea what they're supposed to be doing well that's another thing I thought maybe more education on where and how you're supposed to use a golf cart and um more public um service announcements or whatever I know Zach did a uh a video and Kyle for golf carts which was really good but maybe we need more of that um maybe we need on the sign out front reg register your golf cart with the city you know I'm just looking for suggestions and what you guys think how much is it $150 for in annual pass initial inial initial 150 and then the next year it's 50 yes it's 100 and that 100's not in the first year with the 150 or is it 150 and your first year 15 year and then when you go to renew it's 100 100 okay and Commander kek and the team have they no issues so far out there just educating no to new program any citations yeah that's what I we haven't got a lot of calls we tocha uner might do a separate category initia call fors um but we get a call occasionally um yeah we haven't gotten any that the beach so I know people see those please call us obviously that's um but in in talking to you know a couple of ones that I've stopped that ended up being actual low speed Vehicles because you know initially a lot of times you can't tell until get behind it they I know what we are having problems with sometimes because Cobo beach has some places that rent rent golf cart rent low speed Vehicles maybe golf carts as well and so one of them in particular the license plate is North Carolina license plate so it's registered so it is a low speed vehicle and what happens those are legal in CA Beach because it's 35 miles hour on A1A they get up into canaval here and all of a sudden it's not legal because you got 40 45 miles an hour so we encounter that that that is is one of our issues we encounter so we're trying to educate these are people visitors tourists here they rent and of course the golf cart places I don't know what they're telling them a low speed vehicle yeah you know take this you can go all over the place um and then some people I've talked to is just said it's just not really worth the bank for the because you're very limited you know City can if you on the west come on the east side if you're on the east side you know you can go down to the beach access or a couple restaurants or convenience store but there's really no place else to go you can't go in K Beach on golf can't golf so you had the lowle you do that and I know we had those discussion talk about it so so that's you know that's kind of and I mean I know we've got a like a vetting process so to speak right now with what I know IAL Council counc Kell that was just one of the things I said you might be that we don't have a lot of the issues just because there is a process and we want to make sure we have responsible golf cart you know owners and and people that are doing this and make sure they're following process if you get rid of too much of the process and all of a sudden everybody's like oh you know let me get that and then we just now we got a lot of irresponsible people you know can't can't stop all of them but but that was one of the things talk about so that's just that's just kind of some of the feedback see thank you and would you or officer Palmer I guess C know roughly how many registrations we have 10 10 yeah thank you got them right here 10 10 City what 10 10 okay well you got to start somewhere so I think uh but that I think is your point right is that we know there's more than and uh I don't know what too low is but even if it was for temporary um you know if the city worked towards uh a reducing that um I think a $100 initially and then maybe 50 a year I don't know I just I would like to see more than 10 people because they are out there um you know some of them are tagged through the state which is fine um but golf carts you know I would like to see more than 10 and I would like to see them not on the side can I make a suggestions maybe we should have staff like pole Beachside communities to see like the number of golf carts they have versus their fees and and just do a comparison to the local I mean that way we just have an idea where we where it's a better way to go yeah I think it's going to take time and uh lowering the fees even for a short-term period we can help but it really will only help as much as making them aware and yeah I think it's always prudent to compare to the other cities and so um doing doing a little research there and then trying to work with the community maybe it's just one event we plan out and it's a a golf cart type event say here also everyone who signs up you get your first registration or your first year you know it's at a discount until this date this deadline and if you don't sign up by that deadline that's a good idea and that's what I was looking for ideas yeah on marketing maybe more like an event like you say you know like they have bicycle helmet thing this a could be a golf cart uh event and you bring your golf cart or you know come find out about it I I I just thought you know it's a shame it's only 10 but I I just hate to see the ones out there that aren't aren't licensed by the state and aren't tagged by us you know so that's all I got I think it is a little high I I agree so thank you Commander KCK and um what do we want to do uh maybe I mean I'm game I think you just introduced a discussion item about we got some data 10 has registered how do we increase lower the cost can help and maybe uh do that after we get some D um some comparative data to communities and maybe we work towards promoting you know that golf carts are legal in Cape canaval here's the cost at a a lower rate come uh get registered down at City Hall and we can promoted yeah $150 it's a lot and um you know I just because that's what people are telling me well that's too much money you know I've already spent $10,000 on this golf cart you know and for them to take it to the state that it's a pain but it's only like $30 a year it's for them to renew their tag through the state but they have to um it has you know it's a lowp speed vehicle it's a little different but um they have to take it to Titusville to get it tagged and that's a problem so and that was initially why I thought you know making us a golf cart friendly City would make it easier for people to use the alternative transportation and um you know small town field golf carts you know um but we have to be competitive with other prices and not make it too much money to but not make it too low either so there has to be happy meum some that was just an idea and I just wanted to hear from councel what their thoughts were I'd be fine lowering it cutting it in half you know I don't I think it's an issue of getting awareness out there and mixed in with the folks who do know about it 150 bucks isn't Fun to Shell out and then pay a hundred every year um so thank you for bringing this forward uh between now and April's meeting maybe we can bring back something or maybe work with the staff get some so could we just look at uh what is it satellite oh gosh via which know they they changed that was State ww the 14 um theera is not even a comparison with us because it's yeah it's a golf cart yeah I mean Satellite Beach poo beach beach Melbourne a handful of them just to get a Barrier Island Ballpark and and then if I if I understand the consensus is for staff to reach out to available resources that are out there doing this for total um registration initial cost renewal cost and total number of registrations for Bard County municipalities and maybe a little wider and then bring that back as a discussion item at the April council meeting I think that be good move the ball forward okay thank you thank you satellite website there there is50 initially forra and so some exact same as year One cost okay thank you for that yeah that is exactly what I was had in mind um okay well good discussion item city manager you're clear on the consensus yes sir sounds like we already got some of the data rolling in and that would I think if mayor pelum uh Kellum concludes item number seven yes thank you okay and so we are now uh through item for Action uh item number eight I did mention these are informational excuse me uh we moved uh item number nine as a discussion item so I guess nine is now the follows this one the new number eight so um this is an update to the January 24th 2024 special council meeting and our city uh on January 24th obviously we had met to discuss uh the issues related to Community Development code enforcement uh building department and discuss some improvements City staff put together an information item um and so when I had the opportunity to go through and review this information um and city manager had a chance to go through with me it I did not want to get through this meeting without addressing some things that I see that I think we could look at improving um and so thank you all for for moving it this item really came from while we mentioned Filmore Avenue and Jackson Avenue this is just to to back up here since the beginning related around some of the biggest issues I think we deal with here in the city around code enforcement and the building department and it's happened and it seems that the next issue is resolving these issues uh takes much longer uh than than I think we all hope for and so for me this is as at the end of the February meeting I think I said yeah I put this up here with A1A safety as a top item um because I think there are life safety issues related to this we've heard the comments um from Miss schaer we've heard the story of the Hearst I've received information along the way and overall I guess the first question I have and want to understand is when I go through this report and and read the status update 300 so I'm on the summary page thank you perfect so items one two three four and five for the Filmore Avenue and one through five for the for the Jackson Avenue properties out of the 10 total I think two of them delivered are are submitted as as complete so item number one uh obtain and disclosure of the city council attachment to provided is basically saying hey this one's done out of the five that's my first question is are we saying that item one is completed in its attachment to um and item one was obtained and distribute to the city council a building permit inspections report showing date type of inspection and disposition and in the case of failed inspection cited codes in any inspector notes this report applies to all codes applicable to all permitted construction performed at 304 306 314 and 316 Filmore Avenue include building official statement that all necessary inspections were ultimately approved I guess can we walk through uh well at a high level I think attachment to when I when I go to it which is the first one um we are looking at a uh this print out is from bsna um city manager is that correct Dave would you address this please so thank you David and so I guess is this a report that was produced from bsna can you can you produce this report at any time and if so what's this report called or what could we call it just for the sake of reference this is a general overview or a full PR of the the uh address uh or the permit really it was just specific to the permit for that property yeah response respon comments um and um yes and so I think your other question mayor was can these be produced at any time the answer is yes this is a quered report out of bsna that can be run for any address at any time with any specific time frame so thank you so obtain and distribute to the city council building permit inspections report showing date type of inspection and disposition in the case of failed inspection cited codes and any inspector notes uh this replies to all codes applicable to all permitting instructed and include building official statement that all necessary inspections were ultimately improved is that provided no there's no building official statement I don't think Mike will be willing to provide that statement until this whole issue is resolved okay so the so item number one is the status update is not completed yet yeah if it's it's lacking the building official statement which I would imagine wouldn't I I can't speak for the building official and I'm not going to nor do I want to but um well I think if I were the building if I were the building official I would not be making any um statements like that until this project is completed well the certificate of occupancy was issued correct but I think since since then I'm sorry to interrupt no that's okay since it was issued there's been things come to light okay so item number one is not complete and really uh I think we have attachment to but item number two in obtainer engineering report we have the proposal attached for that cor that work is that proposal is being administered now that agreement it is and we have received a draft of the engineering report that came in uh uh this just this last Friday so just a couple of business days ago um we've gone through it and um still have some questions uh on some of the statements made in the in the engineering report um I believe we have a conference called within the next few days with Kim Ley horn to clarify some of these issues uh they were they were unable able to make some definitive conclusions based on lack of information uh so we're going to try to coordinate Gathering that information with the project engineer which was Allen engineering um so until some of this information that is lacking is is gathered and provided to kimley Horn we'll uh we're going to be waiting for them to finalize their engineering report but we do have a draft The Proposal from kimley horn did not speak of any any deadline or anything we heard at the January 24th meeting it was reiterated in February the importance of these two issues in your eyes when do you think we can get this finished well kimy Hornet was really good about turning around um turning around the report so I would think as soon as we get them that information uh they should be able to wrap it up in I don't know Lexi do you want to pop up here as well um Lexi's very involved with Kim thank you Lexi um I would I would hope we could have this wrapped up by the April council meeting um just to add to and this is this is my bad for not including or not keing Dave and I actually was able to speak with the engineer um who did the report the draft report this afternoon and ask a few clarifying questions so we'll um get some of that stuff in writing for him to add to the report itself and and get it moved around the one thing I do want to just kind of stress to remember is that this is still an active site uh so there are still changes being made so although kimle horn is doing an assessment there is still Earth being moved in regards to the physical characteristics of the drainage so as much as we can get a report turned around quickly if the site is still in flux we will not be able to have an accurate representation of what the final product will be when we get that report so that's just kind of there's we have a two parallel processes happening and that was at the re at the request of Council in January is that we had kimley horn go out and begin this process sooner rather than later thank you the purpose and the scope of the report is intended to ensure that the original design as revised meets or exceeds all applicable city codes related to site development including but not limited to on-site STW water drainage system and its connection to the MP storm water drained system so they are assessing both the proposed design as well and all the um supplementary material that comes with that that proposal that site plan as well as the existing site conditions so the the part that they cannot necessarily have a complete comment on or complete um engineering judgment on will be that'll be entirely dependent on when that site is completed for some of like the the being moved and then some of the conduit and stuff like that so until that is kind of settled the site is always going to it's not quite going to be where it needs to be because it just won't be returned to the state it's meant to be in until that pole is removed if that makes sense it's just it's it's I'll call it like a mildly active construction site because it's not it's not a big operation but it is an actively um an active construction site so the the site conditions won't be able to be restored then assessed by kimley horn until that pole is out of there so to date the status is FPL has buried their lines Spectrum has come and removed their attachments the pole is still installed I saw it today or yesterday I think it's to our knowledge Spectrum still has to underground two they they they've undergrounded their wires for two units in one structure they still have underr the two units for the other structure so spectrum is still doing work okay so the pole has to remain until spectrum is completed with undergrounding their utility do we have any indication on when spectrum is going to finish their work in I FPL which is really item number three no okay item number three item number four and item five are all I a waiting to be presented uh number five the city manager and City attorney and um and then when we go to Jackson Avenue item number one a response to this item was split into two documents I went through and saw it and I didn't see anything from bsna it looks to me like a Word document was or field notes but and I know that it said generated by City's bsna or any other record storage but I guess really out of the 10 none of them are completed in full since January 24 is that right they're all in the works can you respond to that well we can go down each one of them if you'd like that that would be helpful I think we should just know this off the top of our head I mean yeah I it's not yeah the the as far as Filmore Avenue goes I mean we we're we've inserted ourselves into an active construction site and so it's difficult to start take we've asked kimley horn to go in and take a snapshot picture during the active in the middle of an active construction site and things are moving before it and things continue to move after it and so um only until Florida Power gets those gets those poles removed gets the pole removed and everything's underground and the developer is able to come back in and um uh address the Contours this drainage sale at that point a asilt can be put together and at that point kimley horn can take a look to see if the actually what's in the field and that's shown through an as built um how that compares to city code so it's it's we're not going to get any resolution on the Filmore Avenue project until fpnl gets their project done and every those dominoes can start falling at that point I hope that makes sense um so yes 304 the Filmore Avenue one is we will not see any resolution on those items until until fpnl finishes it finishes up their work comp or excuse me Spectrum comes in and finishes their work and then the developer can come in and and and address the drainage SES and then the engineer can adjust based on all that correct then then kimley horn can determine yes this this Swale does meet city code or they can say no it doesn't meet city code and these are the things that have to happen to to address any deficiencies or or inadequacies so that's when those dominoes will start falling I hope that makes sense and we do not have any indication on FPL our Spectrum I know it's overstated but f fpnl is done um they're done with their undergrounding they're and they've energized their lines we're all good there only until Spectrum gets those lines off that pole can fpnl come in and finish their portion of the job which is removing the pole I think that's finished that spect if I spectrum's only only wired two of the four houses okay yeah yeah so as soon as comes in and finishes the other unit then Florida Power can remove the poll who's responsible for communicating Spectrum I have communicated closely with fpnl I've asked fpnl to communicate with Comcast because they do have communication amongst themselves coordinating these efforts um so um and I know Florida Power and and Spectrum have been communicating but who's responsible for saying hey Spectrum you're going to be out there this day and you're going to get it done by this day um I give give them a call tomorrow sure let's let them know that our presence is felt by them too I'd be happy to call them tomorrow thank you who's who should call the I appreciate that but who's responsible this is under instruction FPL has a responsibility to install their lines compant with the code the last meeting it was no it's the it was the developers responsible we sort of got tangled up there and so today I think the issue is is that pause of who is responsible and I'm not saying you are is my understanding there is when it's an initial Spectrum service the developer has to call for it schedule pay for it once it's an existing service to come off a poll it's an FPL poll that poll is owned by FPL installed by FPL now FPL wants that pull back so FPL would contact them to remove it just like when AT&T ins Spectrum was coming off these polls on A1A fpns got their lines up high on the new polls and they cut the other poll and leave it short and they're wanting AT&T and and Spectrum to get off of there so they coordinate with them to get them off of those PS get on the big one so we can take the other poles out that would follow suit here that fpl's coordinating with Spectrum to get them off the pole that they want to remove here too and that pole is a code violation it's a violation of the design it's a physical violation our code and we look and we go that's not supposed to happen right who's that the the technical violation not to split hairs here it says Underground has to be provided doesn't say anything about polls okay because underground service was not provided there there was an issue with our our code and that's why they installed the poll that's that that poll gave them a place to hang over headlines which created the violation and who made that decision is that fpl's decision we don't know who makes that decision ision but we do know that it's the developer responsibility to make sure the violation does not exist and today is that I guess this is the problem because it's the property sold and I you know Dave is sitting sort of in the middle of this and seeing um some issues we're we're trying to address but my Hope was this would be a lot further along today I didn't want to get into the March meeting and basically have zero out of 10 complete and this is an this is when we talk about workshops with pnz I'd rather come back and talk about this this is so much bigger than Filmore Avenue and Jackson Avenue this is an issue that I think we largely learn from some of these things and we will always do created ourselves and today the property owners are not really any better off and when I went through in detail and read what is provided here I don't know about the rest of the council but I did not learn a whole lot more and I'm patient but the patience on this being a couple years and going back several years with uh Jackson Avenue is sort of at the point where we need to know who's responsible and if if it is the developer or are we talking to them today the or the the contractor because I don't see why they're going to get in a hurry to get it done or's the why would they what's the pressure today today to get it resolved we don't have any evidence to say that the developer is not willing to work swiftly once the poll is gone everybody's waiting for the poll to be gone do we have I believe the engineer Adrian Adrian Molinari fpnl engineer is he still the engineer assigned for it or he as far as I know he's involved in the project yes in Spectrum we have a a we don't have it we're working through FPL with that um can we get the representatives from FPL Spectrum Allen engineering Mike German ABC Construction okay uh kimley horn and Associates our code enforcement and any other people all in the same room because I'm trying to communicate through here and it's always somebody else waiting on them waiting on them and I get it I want to talk to them and I want to hear why they struggle middle of a project I get but this is the gas pedal down and so I did not express a deadline in January 24th to get it done but today I'd like to ask the council I wanted to propose a deadline and this is is far more important than So Many Items we're working on and I think it's important to the community it's caused a lot of pain it's caused a lot of money it's caused a lot of tears and heartache and it's just really not getting resolved and so is it lack of resources what are they not listening to us are they not respecting the city of cap canar I think this whole Council can sit in front and to talk to them but I haven't spoke to these folks uh John parar I can provide the list of the people three Engineers are involved John pakar Allen engineering kha two utility Spectrum FPL building official um ABC Concrete ABC Concrete and to my knowledge M ABC Concrete I I mean just to give you an example I went in to see and if I'm wrong I'll be the first one and did a search on ABC Concrete and I don't see they have a business tax receipt with the city of they don't have to have it if their business is not centered in the City of Cape canaval they're okay so you don't need to to build houses in cap canaval your state license that's only for headquartered businesses your when if you have your if ABC Concrete has their headquarters in Meritt Island they need a business tax receipt in Meritt Island and they're allowed to contract throughout the state so we did not require a business tax receipt for non headquartered domiciled businesses no okay in this report and from my correspondents with the property owners and City staff and following the email chains I think the the the property owner received some updates in between the last meeting and now I think that it was going to be weekly updates but I don't think that happened that's happening every week I'm sending Miranda and an email and and Miranda and shering it's been 55 days we've had eight weeks if my math is correct you're telling me you've sent eight updates yes once a week I'll provide those to the council if you're being told if you're being told something else then I can verify my side of the story I think a good idea would be to just send it to the whole Council so we don't have to wonder I'd be happy to do that I'll copy you I'll copy the Council on my weekly updates that's a great idea I certainly don't want bad information circling round about the veracity of my stories so I'd be happy to do that this Wednesday we're meeting at 6 PM it is my recommendation that we come back together and it's all hands on deck to get this resolved can I verify finished um okay so we're stuck at this point where spectrum's cable is on the poll that FBO owns and you can't get Spectrum out to take the cable down correct okay and I'm going to tell you this is a common story with Telecom vendors um I would like to suggest to council if city manager is okay with it if you're okay with it Mr Dicky that I make a couple of calls to contacts that I have with Spectrum to see if I can get this expedited to get this cable removed the other option is to for the contractor or someone else to hire a contractor to go up and take the cable off the pole they can put it on the ground and call Spectrum and say f pl's poll is gone your Cable's on the ground we've been waiting for this for quite some time I would be more than happy to assist with getting this done facility issues with cable and Telecom vendors can be one of the most frustrating things you've ever dealt with in your entire life but this needs to be expedited and unfortunately this truly is something that the general contractor should be doing and we're stuck in between on all of this and to do this you know I would need everyone's okay go ahead and give them a call because it's not acceptable and sometimes you have to push these things along so Mr Mayor I'm more than happy to help make a couple of calls with contacts that I have at Spectrum and and talk to someone in facility and say we just need a cable off the poll that's it it's your cable F's poll when can I get this scheduled I think that I mean our city staff is doing that to to an extent and it's not getting resolved and I've seen some of the emails that you've sent that where we'll get to it basically and on the 29th it was supposed to be done and then it wasn't getting done I think there are no bad ideas but does FPL know does does spectrum know that the the council gave a 50 vote to get this resolved yes I've spoken to Michelle mural about that with I I was also on a conference call with Michelle with Adrien and with Adrian's boss the lead lead engineer on this in this part of Florida explained all of this to them we were given frankly lip service that we would this was probably three weeks ago a month ago here we are today I think you have the right to investigate to question anything and to figure out what's going on over there but I think direction from the council to is would be solved if you'd like to speak you can come forward Karen but we do need you to speak that's what I thought and that's just a matter FPL bringing the poll down on the record was the comment was made that there are no cables on the poll did we misunderstood why did we not know that um who's indicating those polls who indicated that okay um I've been in let's say two or three uh I've been in very close con conversations with um the two prop Property Owners out there I was notified the day two of them came down and I was notified that same day by one of the other property owners that two of them were were still um overhead and I asked them as soon as one of those as soon as that changed to let me know um and I followed up with them every week on where we are with this and if you hear anything or see anything that I need to know let me know Dave are there more two main entry facilities onto the property meaning a lot of times what they will do is they'll bring in cable on this side of the property to accommodate these two units and then again on this side of the property to accommodate those two units is it all combined in one entrance to the facil with the facilities or are they separated out because we could have a pole with no cable on it if there's another entrance facility that has cable on it so these are things that we need to know to be able to get this rectified yeah my my understanding is is that the cabl is running on that overhead line that's coming from the north west portion of the property over to that pole and then it drops down from from the from the pole so it's it's coming in from one location okay um Mr Mayor could I please um work with the owner or access the property to observe and take a look at those facilities I don't have the authority to to Grant you anything more than you have the authority to me and I think you uh reaching out to the citizens and uh I think that would be good they've made themselves available and just the the latest updates that I've received is discouragement and I don't I do not know if I failed to communicate how important this was to to this community when I look at the big lens out if we could fix this we're going to fix a lot of problems in one and we've really struggled for good bad and wrong reasons and I don't see in this report the update that really understood the intent I mean it was about compliance and I know it's under construction but I think that there's a communication too where the telephone game that happens and there's nothing on the Jackson Avenue side that I saw that I think it it's a Miss I think we're I think we we've added data some of it's valuable but I really want to say I the only thing I know to do is to come back together and to meet and to bring some of these parties in because it it it is not it is not getting I think the traction that that I that I had hoped for and the reasons is it's in somebody else's hands um I don't know what else to do other than to to get everybody in the room because the stuff I hear see about what's going on and what I've read is I think that there's been some confusion on the intent it was about compliance about going back through the work it was about a a not necess a building inspector we talked about our City attorney reviewing the Tariff and reviewing and to see if we had any leverage in that meeting we talked about uh the issues at Jackson Avenue at the end about going back further uh than than the the time period as we heard tonight and then some of the statements that I'm reading you know it talks about being in chronological order doesn't look like it's in chronological order um it it it jumps around it talks about in the reports that um things don't exist prior to 20 uh to I guess when we go to the page that was mentioned by uh Miss schaer on attachment for and I know we're jumping around but the following report includes a Chron chronology of Cape canaval Code activity so um it's the next page right there mayor point of order we are 10 o'clock 10 o'clock um need an extension please and I do recommend uh at least 15 20 minutes if we're done in five great I would like a meeting uh please uh so that we can figure this out together but a motion to extend make a motion to extend 15 minutes I'll second got a motion by council member Willis second by council member David or uh maale Pro Tim Kellum excuse me uh to extend 10 minutes City Clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum four mayor Morrison four council member Willis four this is what I have it's in there so there's yeah the the statement at the top five uh it's the next backup one more page the page prior to that please the following report right there there at the very top it includes a chronology of Cape canaver Code Enforcement activity related to these addresses uh February 11th and February 7th records prior to February 11 2022 are not available I don't understand that when what does that mean I guess is that saying sorry about that my mic was turned off the um when you go back to the little uh thing that we did here mayor um if you look at number one where it says provide a report showing all actions and correspondence related to code enforcement at and it gives the addresses I don't need to go through it um this the the field notes is the most accurate report that we have um the correspondence we also placed in the um in a in a folder all the email correspondents that we had prior to this we don't have any um field notes on this uh property uh because they just they at that point in time they weren't done we go back to the older um code enforcement that was done on it the notices of violation that are in the system and I believe that was also put in a folder um I did provide that it was um those notices of violation um however those the older notices of violation that date um back to I I can't remember the date Miss Sher said the date um the older ones prior to all of this um back then that's what we had to work with we had notices of violation we had scribbles on pieces of paper we had stuff to that effect that was a lot of that happened before my time a lot of that happened before bsna came around um we were in an old system an IMS system where you didn't put notes in you didn't input stuff like that it had dates and then you could I I believe I barely worked with the IMs system I apologize but I believe you could save documents to it um Todd could probably speak better on that um so literally the only correspondence and stuff that we have back then would be the actual notices of violation or if I could if if our system had or if it was saved in our system back then you know we could have the um the Complaint Form um that that the officer filled out I didn't see any in our system thank you I friend where are those records that we do have from January 1 2016 through the date that this report began the notices of violation that were issued back then are in laser fish um I I did take the major or all the ones I found I took and put in the in the folder did we I thought they were I thought they were provided also um if they're not in there I can I can send them to all the council members so this what was provided was um going back to February 11th of 2022 yes that's the field notes what else was provided besides that like where's the bsna that this is the field notes are out of bsna that's what we use in bsna we we create field notes in there to say what we've done on what date when they're in inspections were done stuff to that effect if you print up a if you print up a bsna it's not going to give you the like for instance what you said here what was here was report showing all actions and correspondence this is what shows the actions if I printed up something out of bsna it wouldn't show you any actions it wouldn't give you anything can we go in the building official bsna report and it shows actions all up and down it shows that in building inspection I think bsna is a quarter of a million dollarars I mean we we spent a lot of money on it and I know we're trying to work through to get it but my Hope was after this meeting we were clear that bsna would generate a report that that those field notes is a Word document yes just a blank Word document no header no formality this is our professional work product that we're bringing forth to say here's what we did and it doesn't make sense and I take a lot of issue when I read through some of those field in the specifics that's being stated on the details that I go why is this relevant to a case um as we heard uh today with with Miss schaer and I don't know how we can say it we've offered more money we've offered more resources we're running with two full-time we have two Code Enforcement Officers we don't have a third we have a third training for my understanding which is great but we're running to with that intense short-term nental Market one of the biggest hi canaver and Coco beach make up 80% of the short-term rentals and that's our code enforcement that we delegated I know our team is busy but where I take issue is why aren't we saying we need to invest in this now and I do get frustrated when we're talking about uh repairing something else or working on dams and stuff that stuff's exciting that's the stuff I want to work with but behind me I've got texts I got emails I got issues and they're not getting resolved and so my hopes were high at the end of that meeting that we would come back February we didn't do anything at the end of the meeting I expressed but I was sort of hoping to have something by then what took so long going back to Filmore to get the engineer to go walk the site the 27 so this was done on the 25th why did it take a month to go do the to get the proposal I mean that's if my math is correct that and now we're waiting on the engineer the whole month of January came and went well at the end of January the whole month of February pretty much came and went if I understand before we were able to go out and so that's an example of well of course think well now we just got the draft report but did is there a reason why that took so long I guess to start there was um a draft and a revision there were a couple meetings to get the revisions correct to get the report to get the study yeah the scope the scope correct so the for them to understand it okay and they understand it today oh yeah well it's included here and they and they delivered it and it and it's missing information so Todd if you don't mind if I could clarify so that time period from the workshop to one engineer also was was on site also included providing all of the documentation from the initial proposal for new construction to the engineer as well as redefining and tweaking and making sure that the scope was correct so they were doing review prior to visiting the site as well so that's not just when that's not just when the clock started so to speak it also involved um the task order test and getting that and getting that all situated as well so it didn't just start when the engineer showed up on site there was back matter done to it as well that's good so so there there this project initiated with the engineers sooner than that earlier yeah the site visit there would never be a site visit is just that a site visit there is there is a decent amount of front matter to to that goes that happens prior to a site visit okay I I communicate with the property owners as I think I should as an elected official on All We Do and my first test is are they happy and they're not does it mean just because they're not happy does it mean that we're doing something wrong but it's just my it's my indicator that's a good start when they are they're more frustrated we're doing something wrong and I want to help and I want to support and this Council I think has been very gracious in supporting it's sickening how much money and time we' put into this and honestly I do have reluctance approving other things in the budget because this this is what is not I think budgeted and if it is it to me seems really simple and I keep hearing about involvements with the developer and Gary why are we still talking to them why are we not talking I'm not talking to them have you ever okay I I don't I don't believe I said I've been talking to Gary I no I didn't say that okay who have you spoke to I've been talking to ABC Concrete cont you quc have you that I met with you yes and ABC yeah the next day after the meeting I think or the day after and that is have you seen him since then or met him um I've not met with him since then have you ever seen him at the site no have you ever been aware that he's ever went to the site the the contract contor the contractor no did we verify his license and upload it to bsna I never saw it he is a licensed contractor we would have done that when they pulled the initial permit mayor did we extend to 10 10 not INB sna his his his there was no Florida licens dbpr in there that I could see okay let's why don't mayor it's going to be I'm not sure if it's supered productive for us to be just I mean I would love to meet with you individually and we can sit down in front of bsna we can answer a lot of these questions I can't answer these questions for you this evening talk to people who can pardon I want to talk to people who can it's always the engineer the contractor I'm not aware the contractor ever go into this site I've never seen the site I take that ride home I'm not seeing the realities of what's Happening on Jackson Avenue lining up on the paper this has to be fixed I am over it I'm tired of being on the wrong side of this issue with my team we're on the same team 110 me verse you but what I'm saying is this team is going to fix this and I'm saying Todd this ultimately falls on you I want to to support you Anthony I hope that you can come in and you have full Authority as Council to City attorney tap in to this more than you are and say guys I I think I can help the the billing the invoicing the support whatever I don't need criticism on how useful our time is I'm not criticizing you mayor of the highest and best use of time I don't care if we sit in a room for five hours and do and and as long as it results in this getting fixed I'm on board with that 110% and there's a lot I can say about this I didn't talk to Todd about that Todd gave me an overview I learned you know I read I was hopeful and I know we can get it done but for some reason what seems to be simple is not getting done and we got a lot of Manpower that January 24th meeting we had a lot of the entire building department Community Development Department a combined hourly Rage that's handsome this is expensive on the taxpayers to do this and I'm standing in front of taxpayers and this is what they want me to do they want this resolved and I and I can't when you talk about council member Jackson interacting absolutely but we really shouldn't have to be doing that and so my hope is that we are not in April saying this is resolved I can meet April 3rd I can meet April 10th I can meet other dates but we do not get into the April meeting and and it's another update I will stand in front and say whatever needs to be said to any of the contractors but having them all in the room would help I think this entire account you could ask some of those questions directly and if they don't want to come to the meeting that's fine if we got to remove in replace next Wednesday fine the 3 the 7th the 27th whatever the dates are I will make myself a available to support you but I'm not seeing the direction that was given done with urgency there's no deadline for the engineer to get it done the engineer's waiting we' I know we have talented team to figure this out but the work product is less than desirable not impressed and I hope my work product's been bad my hope is that this is taken more seriously and if I failed to communicate it as mayor I'm here to have another meeting and state it again and so please know that every time your phone rings mine rings too and when they when you tell citizens that you're going to do something and it doesn't happen that stinks I'm not saying you did I've done that I've told citizens I'm G to get that done I'm GNA take I'm gonna I'm gonna go figure out what's going on we're gonna and I continually let them that because it's a chain of and you guys continually are let down by other contractors I don't know what else to do Mr Mayor I'd like to make a motion to extend for 15 minutes please I'm finished but yes if that's what we want to to do and if there's any citizens that want to speak so um yep motion by council member Jackson do we have a second I'll second second to extend for 15 minutes any issue city clerk Davis council member Jackson for mayor Pro Tim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for I want to fix it I've said enough and we have Peg here tonight we have the whittens here Karen and Ron excuse me and they they uh Jim and Miranda HST just got back home to to New Hampshire tonight and the whole period here they left out today and whatever we need to do to get this done I would say in the next 10 days is is just the best number I can come because this been going on for years and I want to support City staff but we can't be the council that the citizens want us to be when we are bogged down with these issues that are not getting resolved agreed and I don't want to be the staff that's creating these issues for the council and so I I hope the council understands that certainly not my wish for us to have these continued conversations and everybody being frustrated that's the last thing I want to have happen so obviously there's something missing from our equation we're not seeing something here I think it's that simple so what is it that we're not seeing what piece are we missing to solve this problem I have an opinion on that it's not my staff it's not the council it's not the property owners um but um we'll meet with the city manager and the City attorney and see what ability we have to Force action on those players that we um appears we don't have a lot of control over because I think that's the weak Link in this process but that's my opinion Council comments thank you all for listening I'm willing to participate in any meeting with anybody anytime and if if Todd's okay with it and Anthony's okay with it I'd be happy to put all of them in the same room and we can have a knockdown drag out whoever comes out wins that would be great I just don't think that's going to happen I don't think we'll be able to get all those players in the same room but I am willing to try my hardest to do that would uh I can put a list of those in an email to the city manager if the city manager could send an email to them a phone call certified mail whatever with the and if they can't make it they can't make it we're flexible in Cape canaval they can attend virtually hopefully if we can get that working phone call they don't need to stay but their participation is welcomed and needed I hope we don't have to have that meeting at all but I'm trying to get in front of the April council meeting and we're back here with a little bit more information opposed to resolving it because I want to get on the good side of this where we start implementing the things that clearly identify what were the problems why did this happen what are the solutions to fix these problems the same thing with the Jackson Avenue property too why why did it happen why is it taking so long why you know Pig brought up a lot of points today um no it needs to be resolved because it just continues and continues and that's my argument too we talk about CIP and new projects that are coming along we have to fix these things and like Peg said code enforcement is a major fix that's needed and I'm glad that we're budgeting for another code enforcement officer um I think that would help um but I I agree that it's gone on way too long so whatever we can doting or whatever counil and Mr Mayor I'm going to plan on going out there this week and taking a look at the facilities I want to see how it's coming in I'm familiar with that and that way I can get an idea of where we might have an issue with the physical facilities so any input that can be provided um and if the engineers did not go back and were instructed to listen to the meeting an idea because when they read the the narrow down approved outcome I think having the conversation around it I went back and listened again and that's where I got frustrated because we were really expressing with Clarity and and when I see that it came out some of it I agree it's not our fault but we are not going to I think sit back on this and just accept and not verify these things so can can I ask I guess I'll ask it a favor is this this report that we provided that the council is is is looking at this evening came from the minutes from the January 24th meeting and the minutes were prepared by me of course Mia does an excellent job at I'm sorry the city clerk's office put the minutes together and my my wish is that if if the minutes in this this table doesn't reflect the council's wishes then I don't want to be going in the wrong direction I don't want to be spinning my wheels on trying to accomplish things that the council that wasn't the intent that's not what you want that's I I don't want to do that so I'm not saying we have to do it this evening maybe we do I don't know but I would like to know what specifically the council if it's not in these minutes if it's not what the council wants then I it would be helpful for me to know where the shortfalls are in these minutes and what if if we're going in wrong direction what what direction do we need to be going in well are they updated because number three we talked about the fact that the cable isn't on the poll we were first we said it is now then we said it isn't the this says it is so we have to do this in my opinion which is my opinion but I think that if we took this as in a direction of using it like a with a project plan where you put out those tasks that need to be done and what date they're needing to be done and mark off the ones that are completed where it's literally on a timeline a Gant chart whatever we need so that you can easily visibly see that that step's been completed then you know what it's going to help um because you know on this one clearly they're saying they're saying excuse me that the wire is not there so but the pole is so but this one's saying they stated they're waiting um for spectrum to remove it so we've got some things happening maybe in the background with vendors that maybe we're not getting updated on I don't know yeah I mean we're I'm updating this table literally every day I met with three of my staff today and updated this table so I don't want the council to feel like this this is not being looked at on a daily basis because it is oh no and I'm not I'm not insinuating that I'm saying with this and I'm still going to say it this is a project it needs a project plan okay whereas this is good information we just heard that the cable's not there anymore it's hard with without Milestones to check it off tick it off that it's been done and so there's a lot of stuff going into the weeds possibly and not being followed up on and not this isn't and I get it that this may not be something that is normally done we're doing this because it went so off the rails um but regardless we as a city need to know this has been done tick this one's done check check that one check that one spectrum's taking it off the pole okay now we're waiting for FPL to get the and where the notes are good and helpful for me it's harder to keep up with updating or things of that nature so um that's suggestion just a suggestion with me I'm G to like I said I'll go out and take a look at the facilities and I appreciate your info info on what's out there whether it's coming in from both sides or one one drop um because it it it's not fun working with these types of vendors are not fun and I will say this as well if they say they're coming out I mean let them come out because they're horrible to get back out and it's hard to get their things through their engineering so but all of this should have been done and we're going to have to take hold of it at this point and guide this process or else it's not going to get finished it doesn't look like we've got anyone that's at the rains for it so I'm willing to help in any way that I can and I'll go out there Dave and take a look and I will talk to if spectrum's still on the poll I'll talk to Spectrum if I if they're not I'll talk to fpl I have I have contacts from my businesses and both of the in both those companies that can point me in directions that may end up with results I can't guarantee that but I'm willing to try I just want to respect the process with that city manager and his and the team here who we have that we're not interfering okay with anything and so you know you asking questions is thing but you know giving direction and things like that you you want to really work through our our city for stuff like that okay so which do I not do I'll go out and look at the poll if you want to you know meet with the citizens and ask questions and consult with our City attorney about it but I just don't want to go down a path where they're getting orders you know or comments and so uh but uh the plans are online too I think the electrical showing primary service coming in and I I think uh the more people who can understand this the better I think too many people talking to the same entity could cause more problems um but to learn and to help expedite I I think I've offered that to to our city manager and for the most part I I mean communicated and then it sort of Fizzles uh with what you know fpl's not getting back to us and then city manager will follow up and da and then it Fizzles and it's like Tick Tock the days go by the problem still exists and it really wasn't that complicated at face value I mean when we saw and and I think we don't have a problem in figuring out what the problem is it's we have a challenge Engineers are held up because of this wild wild west we have no Authority or leverage over the utility companies uh but you know contractor's responsibility or you know it's and anyways that that that is it and as far as the you know the code enforcement side the bsna you know being able to create these reports from bsna is really important I know you're saying it's from mayor I can create the exact same report that you got from the building official I can create that report it shows dates and that's pretty much all it's going to tell you when when you ask for the um when you ask for the the information and the correspondence when I looked at it that had more information the field notes but if you'd rather have the other I'll be more than happy to create that for you I also just wanted to uh mayor protm Kellum that that property is going back to the magistrate in April um due to non compliance and him not bringing the property into compliance and we'll be the the city will be uh suggesting leans on that property at that time so I just wanted to update you on that because you you know you were wondering how where it was so okay and we're talking about Jackson they had until Jacks they had until March 8th to complete certain things and they didn't pull building permits for certain activities and they haven't done that so we'll be bringing them back to the special mat and that lean will be will asked for it to be retroactive back to March 8th that magistrate meeting is it the date scheduled yet yes it's in April when I believe it's April 26 but I can get you that date so if he had any intentions on pulling permits he would have done that by now he had to do it by March 8th he did not pull any permits by March 8th so we're a month out from that magistrate hearing to prepare okay I'm I'm I'm sorry it's uh April 23rd April 23rd okay we don't have one this this month we don't have a magistrate hearing this month yeah I think that's a good example of Expediting I mean it carry on I guess with with that and do what's best but mayor can I say a few words I've been listening very patiently to to everything that's going on here tonight and I want to make sure I heard from everybody I think I have the Filmore Avenue is a very difficult one for us because things did not go properly so we're dealing with an odd bird trying to fix this and then we made an extraordinary solution proposal at the January 24th meeting which we have been incrementally working towards and yes there have been steps towards resolution we can't say there's been 0% progress is it as fast as you want no sir it is not is it as fast as I want no sir it is not as you expressed your frustration you also expressed dealing with entities that we have no control over their schedule is frustrating our attempts to control the the delivery date of this we all want to control the deliv every date and just have it done because so much of what we're used to doing we have control over we're we're butting heads with another entity's processes and we have no control over them yes we're trying to influence and exert our our will and our influence to the greatest extent that we can and maybe having a a come to Jesus meeting in front of the council with all the parties maybe maybe that could help let's I say let's let's talk about that there was not a deadline put in and I know you Adit that already the you suggested 10 days from day we today we have Filmore completely done I would love to have that done but can we promise that no we can't promise anything we can't promise that ABC Concrete is going to go out there with a permit and do this work even though we've paved a path to do this we'd be foolish to commit to that time frame all we can do is our very best effort we believe we have a great plan in place we believe we've got the capable people we know exactly what needs to be done we're all willing to pitch in thank you Mrs Jackson for willing to pitch it and I think you brought some valuable Insight you have to know certain people sometimes to get something extraordinary done outside of the city I say yes let's take your help with that let's verify if those polls are free of lines let's if they are let's find out when is FPL going to remove that poll let's get that out of there then let's contact that contractor are you going to be willing to commit to this if this is done by this date can you get out there we'll have that permit issued for you the next thing in the morning maybe this can happen within 10 days this team sees this vision and knows exactly what needs to be done to complete Filmore as soon as possible beyond that we also see a lot of pro process fixes that are necessary to update the code in our forms and applications to match those updates and code so we don't have this problem repeat in some other area in some other way this is a very big thing that we take very seriously we've committed a lot of time and effort to and we're going to continue to with that passion and that enthusiasm to do everything we can to the best of our abilities we ask that the council work with us continue to have the consensus among Council to get this done as fast as possible but also I'm asking for The Faith from councel that we are and that's all I have to say mayor thank you I I know what we do have control over I'm not guaranteeing asking that something be done in 10 days but to bring forth an effort that you're really proud of and you can communicate it and say we did this and we failed and then I would I think that's acceptable but we have control over and the the is issues here to me are not as complicated until it's the so many different people and people retiring in the lost but it's all a byproduct and a symptom of not documenting not keeping Good Records not pro um having the reporting system the way we get information is email me call me come by and talk to me and I see it's transitioning into it's D sna if it's not in there it didn't happen it's on this report like to see the word documents eventually get away and any citizen at any point can go on and see scheduled maybe one day we are tasking and saying I don't need to talk to Dave I can see his he he he tried five times this week login task that syncs up with emails there's all types of things I don't want to have to be like that but on this one I'm going tunnel vision because it's my in seven years this represents the biggest opportunity for us to to to fix some serious life safety issues in the community that I've neglected unfortunately citizen inbound calls and requests for things that are really the fun stuff and things that I enjoy and I can't get to I cannot because I study this and I read it and I go I I don't understand how we're here and so I'm hopeful but I don't no guarantee in 10 days but I think no matter what we can check in in 10 days and hope that that we've seen progress of some sort I'm not saying it wasn't 0% done I see more data formalizing the the the written uh agreement is progress I see those things but uh full full court press at this point and I think we've got all the resources we need to get it done and there's nothing in my opinion more important than than getting to the bottom of this and resolving it coming with real solutions um again this was at the end of the meeting I thought about moving it up and requesting that the council move it up to the earlier part of the meeting and I didn't because out of the respect of you know those other issues and there was people in the room but this is taking up a lot of time for the people in here tonight and it continues after we all go home we all make our own calls and individuals and we all might collaborate we and it just keeps exponentially going and so I am hopeful that this gets better but it it is coming off the heels of I think we're past that point of patience here and so read the read to understand the council read the words that I think the city staff wrote and we vote voted on and supported it doesn't do what it's what it's saying that you're you're providing it's not accurate there's there's erors there's sloppiness there's not a professional work product that I think for this at a minimum you can get a little rough on all the other this one can we polish up I mean can we really make this the the test case to say here's anything you want to know on Jackson Avenue anything you want to know on Filmore Avenue here's the status go online and we're going to work to bring the resources in where this is how the City of Cape canaver will oper moving forward we invested a lot of money in that no metrics no deadlines and so today is about a deadline and I think we have to set one in order my expectation is no more than 10 days we have uh something back if the draft engineer report came today the next one's coming whatever is next between now and then um the City attorney if if his availability I think is crucial for this if needed uh but I'm sorry what is the deliverable within 10 days uh I would like to revise uh an update to I mean stay on the track right I mean I think you're plugging through the 10 items and I'm saying I don't see any of them that I think are complete that's because they're not and so this this is a very messy process we're learning learning a lot of I would call weaknesses in our processes and we're trying to fet them out and fix them it's going to be sloppy and it's going to be messy and um I think though and this is not going to happen in 10 days it's not going to happen in a month or two months remedying all of these issues that we're fiing out is probably going to take the better part of a year to figure out and address all of our processes is you're going to take a lot of ordinance changes changing applications maybe even changing our comp plan there's a lot of things that need to be addressed so I don't want I want to Tamp down any expectations that this is going to be a quick quick process it's not um this the fix the Final Fix is going to take a while um but we are we are committed to it um we're going to try to bring these two items to a quick conclusion but the long-term fixes may take a little bit of time Dave I'm talking about the short-term fix yes the 10 days what is the deliverable what is the council consensus on that deliverable within 10 days I don't know either there's 10 action items listed five for Jack Filmore five for Jackson when you watch the video the me read through those are those requests being fulfilled to their fullest I don't want to hear well you didn't give us it at line it it's should be as important as possible we don't ASAP and so I am communicating for the first time what I thought I thought this meeting was the meeting to come and when I saw it as informational only I thought to myself great it might be that's all needs to be but this needed discussion and so my my if we need to come back through and recommunity owners agree compl completely I don't want to try to be interpreting the intent of the council that puts me in a very tenuous position I felt this was a pretty good report on those specific items that were identified by the council in the minutes which this Council approved so it's I honestly I I need more Direction I need more clarification if this is not what you wanted I I I I don't want to be wasting the council's time nor staff's time okay let's do this let's next week make a request to meet with all the contractors that we listed I'll email a list let's have that meeting between now and then whoever can come can come we'll try to do it at a time that's available let's go through this list together all of us in the same room and try to resolve it and that's the best I that's the best I can offer it's late um um the the the report I mean by our own admission these are not finished such as the official statement well you're saying you can't speak for Mike German I want to talk to M our building official why we can get everybody in the room he can answer for that so is that clear I think whoever set the meeting we can request a meeting with all the parties with the people that you identify in the email yes we will do that yes and go through uh these items and and and and let's resolve them uh it the the engineering report I think the draft is out working through the natural process with staff now um that was just the beginning of that that was a storm water carv I know the back and the front it's all interrelated but getting them in the room and Mr parar is he available can't we can't force people to come we don't subpoena people or anything but can Mr pakar come to and we we can certainly invite him yes have have we reached out to Mr pakar since the January 24th meeting oh not since January 24th that's a head scratcher for me I that's a pretty important person the last two letters in there and was from Mr parar and now has kimley horn reached out to him I I don't know I don't know the answer to that I doubt it I don't think that was in their scope was to talk to the uh P city engineer was the quality and inspection for Filmore Avenue up to the standard that we like I don't think we can answer that question in your opinion from the okay a certificate of occupancy was issued does that say you've inspection in in a in yes do you think that the quality of inspection was there hindsight no I don't I think that's that was one of the issues that we've identified that we need to that was one of the things that I mentioned we need to root out and address on where we fell down and how to fix that and that's those are that's one of the items and I agree I think the CEO was issued prematurely and it wasn't properly those people who should have been looking at that to give the building official the the Comfort level to sign off on the co that didn't happen and why didn't it happen so we're trying we're try we are addressing those issues and I know that the the you know to to address it long term that does take time but for this project to nail down and to say here's what we found here's how we're going to fix it we don't have Clarity on who we're applying leverage to I at first this was a civil issue I mean this is two to three years and now it's it's complex and this isn't easy it's the same story it's the same story with Jackson Avenue the same complaints that came in the building is in compliance compliance was in the field the same fire existed the day the inspections or was out and suddenly now there's problems that's the stuff that makes my head explode to go wait a minute nothing changed there was a complaint made they said compliance was in the field then they go out and suddenly they see the same things that the original complaint had mentioned I don't like that that's not right and I want and I believe we want to fix it we've went we had a three or four hour meeting going through this I think you are clear and you interpreted some of the things in the last meeting on what we're trying to do this issue is licensed contractor is who we should have been talking to the whole time to date I'm not aware that we have since the meeting other than the next day meeting that we had but the property owners haven't seen Mr baz at the or the GC there were there would probably be no reason for them to see Mr bu at this point because the contractor is waiting for fpnl and and um Spectrum to finish their duties then the contractor will move in and do their business but I was told that the contractor is responsible for making sure that FPL does this okay yes so shouldn't he be there to make sure FPL fulfills the job that a CO is issued on that the inspections weren't poor can we go back through this and properly inspected again that was the gist of it have the building inspector go back through it again and say try again let's see what you catch this time because the property owner telling me issues I I'm not aware of any there being any Florida building code with the actual units themselves any issues I'm not I'm just saying go back through the full inspection the process when the report that was thing and to ask yourself did we cover all the Bas that's I believe that's what we're doing because the whole time we were not dealing with the contractor correct I think we we've aded that's dead onal we've admitted to that and I think that's exactly what we're doing this time so the contractor coming off the hills of the Jan here's an example the January 24th meeting that I didn't think I would need to explain is after we met I was thrilled to know that we met ABC in the city is is got to to stay hip to hip there and to to follow up with that contractor and for my understanding we haven't been following up with a contractor I hear that the other entities the people that got us in trouble in the first place where they're still trying to deal with us I'm not dealing with Gary Whitten kind either am I I'm not sure where you're hearing that from has Mr Whit reached out to the city to try and resolve this issue the he has written a couple emails that's what I'm saying yeah but we're we're not taking the initiative to work with him we're working with the contractor okay okay where do I see that we've worked with the contractor and what progress has been made other than the meeting where he said understood and and and I basically affirmed this is the contractor does he feel the debt that that I feel in this Council feels that this needs to get resolved to me what leverage does the city really have over it in the first place The Leverage is that the work was done uh seal were issued incorrectly the work was done and the property is not in compliance which creates this conundrum of the city approved it and it was not in compliance we can make the argument that we could revoke all of the cosos we have the ability to do that now none of us want to do that because we got people living there that's the that's the leverage that we have over the contractor revoking the CEOs equates to you don't have an active building permit and you've got work that was done incomplete without a building permit which equates to you did work without a permit which is a violation contractor must do work with a permit that violation could then be reported to dbpr as a contractor complaint that's how the leverage would work will work with this contractor we could we could pull this trigger we could we don't want to but if you forc us to we may have to we would find a way to provide a conditional or temporary Co for this period of time do ter right but at this stage um and I did speak to the manager briefly about this I mean the man the manager has a point um that is a very um extreme measure to take at this stage at this stage of the process with four tow houses that have been ceed and occupied for a well over a year now I believe we also discussed at the end of the day is to try to get the property restored into in a per in a in in accordance with the city code and and making sure that um kimle horn certifies that it's built in accordance with the with the city code um that that objective uh the manager and I also talked about um dedicated easement granted to the city emcy purposes for uring that the stor water system is maintained um in accordance with plans approved by the city I think like ultimately at the end of the day you know once once that pole is removed it's my understanding talking to staff then that opens up the door to actually restore the property to permanent conditions in compliance with the city code and ultimately that's the the main OB right I think I think the city can can get there various ways and possibly approaches to that but City can get there but what the manager talking about is pretty pretty extreme I don't know the consequences to the actual owners that are actually occupying that building he were to go down the route of revoking thank you for explaining talking with theer owners ccum not that's one oferty owners that he does have a an Emergency storm water management system as in erress rights and the ability to restore necessary support out of the ground yes I know that I mean we choose a franchise agreement to work with them too not so sure may I think I gave you some information regarding you know Florida law and City's ability to require undergrounding of utilities and how power companies are are regulated by Public Service Commission Now with that said when the city did negotiate its last franchise agreement there is a memorandum of understanding uh between the city and and FPL that expresses the city's um preferences and strong desire regarding you know not only undergrounding Utilities in theity but also the removal of unused utility PS and um that was an issue at the time if I recall there were a lot of wooden poles that were sticking out of the ground with no no lines so there is a little plause in that memorandum of understanding and I had suggested to the to the manager I may have suggested it to the council you know FPL has a government relations person that their primary responsibility is to government uh happy and listen to what the government concerns so um with that memorandum of uh agreement I would given especially given this meeting get on the phone tomorrow morning with that government relations person with FPL and if those lines have been removed um I would stick that memorandum of under memorandum of agreement under their nose and say this poll needs to be removed um and hopefully that lets the fire under the suggestion that that that seems like a lot's writing on that being removed everything all the dominoes will I think fall very quickly once that once that pole goes and so that's what I see in my understanding there's just a poll the wires for Min understanding have been removed and so when I think 10 days I think that's unreasonable can the poll be removed in tomorrow the next day by the end of the week and then can we get with our engineers and and and to bring this to to a close tired I know we're all tired thank you um are there any comments from the public before we close I'm finished charer Ron and any comments I know that you had raised your hands a few times thank you Lexi thank you Zach Lisa for hanging in with us with that I look for a motion to adjourn got a motion by council member Willis second by council member Davis to adjourn city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for meeting adjourned thank you thank you