city council special meeting today is Monday April 22nd 2024 I call this meeting to order  this time council member Willis would you please lead us in the pledge pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the  Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible withy justice for all thank you please call the role council member Davis here council member Jackson here mayor  protm Kellum here mayor Morrison here council member Willis here thank you all for being here  and again thank you all for joining us today here at Chambers and online participating with  that today is a special council meeting and we do have the approval of agenda as written  or with amendments uh we have one item for discussion Council any changes or keep it  as written if so looking for a motion to approve agenda as written I'll make a motion we approve  agenda as written I'll second got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum second by council member  Jackson to approve the agenda as written any further discussion seeing none please call the ro oh I'm sorry four or we at at the public participation portion in the meeting if you did intend to fill  out a card please bring one forward I do have one here first one is from Peg schaer different perceptions thank you um but we've agreed on that so I just want to thank the  council and particularly Todd for working so diligently um with me to get this right we  last meeting reviewed the amphitheater and what a great space that's going to be with food trucks  and a place for Neighbors to gather and to walk their dogs and to play with their kids kids and  that is going to come at a big cost that's going to be a big cost of your time because that's going  to be a lot of reviewing that's going to be a big cost of taxpayers dollars because that  takes it and I am super excited about it but I also provide an amenity to the city that didn't  cost taxpayers a cent but it is costing your time and I just want you to know how valuable it is to  have your time I want to continue to be uh an idity in our city so when you go to a meeting  like this you think gosh we're still talking about this we're still doing this this is a pro this is  a fraction of what other amenities in the city are going to cost you so I appreciate your time  and I appreciate uh the council's willingness to make sure we get this right because it's super  important for our city that we are on the right track supporting not only businesses but my tax  help pay for the other amenities that I would like to see in the city so thank  you for your time and effort and I don't want you to think that gosh this this is  a waste of time we're beating a dead horse this is absolutely not a dead horse this is  vital to the success of our city thank you thank you that concludes any uh physical  cards if you did intend to speak please raise your hand okay seeing No Hands raised those  of you who are online we ask this same if you do intend to speak please raise your hand seeing No Hands raised we'll go ahead and close public participation portion of  the meeting bring it back to the one item for discussion which is to review of community and  economic development department roles respons responsibilities and discuss actions proposed  to resolve current issues for properties located on Filmore and Jackson Avenue um  today we have the opportunity to talk about this again when it was originally put on the  agenda back the broadcast is now starting all attendees are in listen only mode the  uh January 24th special meeting we brought an issue forward that really did have the intent  of improving the city uh making it uh better and learning uh really within the building department  in Code Enforcement to specific instances uh to get it right and we are tracking through  that process today um and my hope is to break this into two spend a little bit of time on Filmore and  then move to Jackson uh and so the as far as any agenda items I did pres uh reprint the um original  January 24th update that we received in March it's an identical copy of that I'd like to distribute  that to the council so this was the informational item number nine in the March uh council meeting I do have one more we need it and so the when we look at these two projects or these two properties um my hope today is that we can  start with number one spend his as as much time as as we need to try and and receive an update  and see anything that's changed from the last March meeting and then uh I certainly if Council  or uh City staff would like to to provide any comments that would be helpful as well and to  try and move through these as expeditiously as possible with an emphasis on item number two  when we get there of the engineering report um I if we could have um the opportunity to  ask questions and to do a review of that that would be where I think time uh spent  on that first one would be most impactful and then continue to item three four and five and so it's 108 now and so perhaps after an hour we do a we do a hard stop and then try and shift over to  Jackson so we can all get back to our days and uh work on making progress so with that I do want to  pause Council the goal to go through one through five on Filmore in the exact order provided work  with staff on any updates ask any questions and we'll move through them does that sound okay uh it said the emphasis on item number two I believe kimley horn was  going to be very um supportive to help with the engineering report they Pro provided and paired okay um before we start city manager thank you for being here  um I appreciate your time and and all those who who are with us on behalf of the City of Cape  Canaveral do you have any comments or concerns with starting number one through five and and  working off that last update thank you mayor and I wasn't sure I was going to be able to be here  I was quite ill yesterday I'm still a little bit wobbly today so if I bolt out that door that's why  I'm doing that and I apologize if that happens um I don't have the one through five in front of me  that you're looking at maybe if you have copies that could be distributed one more there you go thank you um and the only other thing I was going to add mayor was um I do appreciate Miss  schaer um for spending your time with me to go through this I know it is taking a lot of  your time away from your personal life and your business to go through these things but together  we are moving forward on a lot of important clarifications um and I feel very confident  as she does that we are getting to the bottom of things for the actual truth that they are  one of the things I've always said there's three sides of every story your side that side and then  there's the truth and getting to that truth that last part that we can all agree on yes  that's what happened that is where we begin to make corrective actions happen and we're very  close to that we are there on a couple of them actually I think there like six enumerated items  I think half of them were there the other ones when I met with her last time she threw additional  information at me that was very helpful that I hadn't focused on on prior I'm going to be  digging into that this week with staff um and I suspect that all of that will be ready for  um what I'm requesting is uh city council meet again on the reserve date of May 7th to review  the report of findings not only on Jackson Avenue but also on Filmore Avenue at that point I feel  very confident that I will be there that third side of the story on every item mayor thank you  the May 7th is the reserve date yes uh for city council meeting would it be helpful if  that date I think that's a great idea um to come back and and meet is that what you're  yes sir shooting for to to review the report of findings in detail Council does that work for  you because we could get that out of the way now and go ahead and schedule that next meeting I'll  make a motion we do schedule that meeting to allow the city manager to complete his findings and his investigation I'll second got a motion by council member Willis second by council member Davis any further discussion on the May 7th meeting what time um I'm fine  with u Kim is 4:30 too early for you that's fine 4:30 could work and and  mayor just to clarify that will cover both Phil Moore and Jackson findings 4:30 pm May 7th covering uh Phil Mor and Jackson with a report of findings now from  that report of findings I expect that we'll be very far along also on uh conclusions and  recommendations but a formal conclusions and recommendations would follow that at another  date thank you okay any other discussion Council city manager no sir please call the vote council member Davis four council member Jackson four council member Kellum  four mayor Morrison four council member Willis four thank you with  that um bringing it back here to this item I think that's going to speed up  uh obiously the findings is a part of this report but but starting with Filmore Avenue um the summary here is helpful which staff worked on and provided and to reemphasize  that the January 24th 2024 City count special meeting Council reviewed the community and  economic development roles and responsibilities and discussed actions proposed to resolve the  current issues for properties located at 304 to 36 16 Filmore Avenue and 11610 Jackson Avenue this is  the status update uh of these items starting with 304 to 316 Filmore Avenue item number one was to  obtain and distribute to the city council a building permit inspections report showing  date type of inspection and disposition and in the case of failed inspections cited codes and  any inspector notes this report applies to all codes applicable to all permitted  construction performed at 304 306 314 and 316 Filmore Avenue including bu building official  statement that all necessary inspections were ultimately approved um so this first one here  I think this the update that we provided from staff was C attachment to attachment to uh was a bsna generated report that showed um property information permit information uh  inspections comments and I think that city manager is this one one that you're saying is  complete I I think that it's from my perspective from that date it was complete yes sir Dave is  any are there any changes this no changes to that so I recall this item included a request  for the building official to make a written statement I'm going off memory I don't have  benefit of what the council has in front of them um and last time we spoke about this the  the building of this this question was raised and I indicated that I was not going to speak  on behalf of the building official but that uh more than likely he would not be willing  to um make that written statement and what was being requested until the project was  completed and so I don't think that has changed either thank you okay thank you uh Council are there any comments after that update it's um if so  please no particular order for item number one Mr Mayor yes sir I would think any clarification that would be made would be made in the city  manager's report if there is any so I am I am satisfied with waiting for that report to clarify anything I think that for this one this is what was provided at the March meeting is the building  permit inspections report and I think it's complete other than the uh statement from  the building official is that that's my understanding as well so we've received  that report and I'm asking is I don't mean to speak for council member Willis  I perhaps he might clarify that if there is anything additional to be clarified  it will be clarified in that report coming forthcoming in the findings report yes sir okay um thank you very much any other comments Council on this one the next one is item number two uh obtain an engineering report of existing site conditions  and a review of all site related permit documents submitted by Allen engineering  and former city engineer John pakar for all site related permitted construction performed  at 304 306 314 and 316 Filmore Avenue approved plans letters and calculations the purpose and  scope of the report is the intend is intended to ensure that the original design as revised meets  or exceeds all applicable city codes related to site development including but not limited to the  onsite storm storm water drainage system and its connection to the municipal storm water drainage  system the report shall note any improvements which deviate from original plans and indicate  whether such deviation complies with city code or if not recommendations for modifications necessary  to comply with city code note particular attention shall be given to a revision related to the  municipal storm water inlet and the driveway of 30 six Filmore a to which the on-site storm water  drainage system is connected in the original plan a new storm Inlet was to be located to the east of  the old original Inlet but the revision called for the Old Inlet to remain in its original location  a connecting pipe size was changed to accommodate the response uh at the March meeting we received  from city is kimley and Horn Associates Ka proposed proposal for Civil Engineering Services  was approved on February 20th 2024 uh C attachment 3 which we did uh have and it was provided staff  walked the site with K engineer on February 26th and the engineering report at the time  is forthcoming and the proposal was forwarded to Council on February 21st city manager any comments  or updates I think since then we've talked about this we've received the uh final report I believe  we were working on an executive summary yeah yeah that's correct and it might be helpful for  the council and the audience to know that we have created a spreadsheet we call it a tracking list  of all things related to Filmore that gets updated a couple times a week and distributed to council  that includes this item as well as all the steps through completion uh so that is a public record  it's available but everything that's happened to date as as the days progress we put new entries  in there uh and this one included entries for um the first draft interim report that came through  and then it was rvis to be clarified a couple things and the and the the final or that revision  to that interim report was finalized uh staff was preparing um I'm going to call it a layman's terms  summary of all that I don't believe that was distributed yet Dave no we were waiting to have  an opportunity to meet with you and go over the final draft for it's distributed but uh but Kim  leorn is here today and I'm sure they're capable of delivering that layman's terms draft verbally  and but we'll be glad to follow up with that other one as well sir thank you and thank you kimly horn  and your team for being here today uh Council any comments I would like to to have the opportunity  to talk through the engineering report and some of the major findings uh before doing so if willing  U thank you Lexi um I think that report was emailed by you to the council recently I don't  have five copies of that but so kimly horn is here today we have Kyle Cosby who authored the  report and Tucker Hunter who helps oversee the office that we work with for kimley horn  they did bring copies of both um so the report itself is about 100 pages so we didn't print  five copies of that today we did however print the memo so that was originally drafted by Kyle  as well as um the approved design plans the approved ads builts um and then uh and Kyle  also prepared a presentation just a few slides and that was printed as well so you'll have it  on your screen in front of you um you'll have it printed uh and then I know plans can be a little  bit hard to see on smaller screens um so just Kyle's going to do his best to kind of Click  through it and and you know if you have any questions feel free to reference either the  printed copy in front of you or the screen and he can he can kind of walk through that but he's here  to kind of give an overview talk about the report and answer any questions thank you that sounds  excellent Council and uh obviously between now and the February 7th meeting if any more questions  come up we can potentially work through them then thank you Lexi I think that's a great Next Step thank you good afternoon mayor council my name is kby I'm a professional new yor  Associates I prepared the uh stormill so just a brief project overview of the site site here  what's constructed two duplex buildings and in the middle of those two buildings is in the middle of the two buildings is going to be the outfall structure that we refering to in  this presentation and then as the mayor alluded to earlier that the inlet to the south of the  driveway that's the inlet question where have the connection of the the outfall structure into that existing so what I wanted to kind of go over just u a brief timeline uh we got so the project  was approved back in 2020 um construction Co certificate occupy was was released in 2022  uh City contacted uh in January um of this or this year and then we would prepar the task that  task was signed in February 20th uh I performed initial site visit of the site I'll get to that  later about what I was able to see um and then we prepared the initial report in March 15 and final  that you guys have in front of you was April so the scope of the task were just briefly was to  uh perform site visit to review existing Editions want to state that the existing site when I went  out there there was FPL that was performing work on the power pole was in the back there so kind  of disturbed some of the area in the back um I was to review the project documents upload  VMA which is the city's PR portal and then compare the as buils with the approved plans and identify  any deviations that that were notified and then prepare a storm water memo summarizing findings  recommendations based off the approv plans that were approved in 2020 and the city code so as you guys have in front of you guys have the approved plans I just want to uh just kind of go  over a couple design elements of those approved plans so as you can see in the approved plans uh  the retention area wraps around all sides of both buildings and then it that water will collect into  a yard drain which is the outfall structure a 24 in outfall structure that then will convey  through a 12-in pipe to a proposed um Inlet That was supposed to suppos to be between the two  driveways and then that was going to connect in with an 18inch pipe into the existing Municipal uh Inlet now I'm showing the as builts and as you can see in the as builts um you can see  there is the pipe connection tying directly into the existing Inlet as opposed to having  the connection to the proposed Inlet and then connecting in um also note on the as builts is  that the retention area bottom is actually a foot higher than what the design plan's called  for so the design plans called for the bottom of the pond to be at elevation eight and it was at  elevation nine part the as builts uh there's also some some information just missing from  the as builts like you can't clearly tell where the um the top of the retention area is begins  to collect water so part of my site visit was to determine you know where the the retention area  extends because all that's picked up is just the kind of flow path of the retention area and then  you can see here the yard drain is is what that was constructed was a 12 in as opposed to the 24 in so just briefly during my finance investigations I have some photos I took  on site I just want to go over the approved plans um based on the approved plans that  I saw in the in the calculations prepared by Al engineering um they state in their report  that they're not meeting the water quantity requirement for the city and what that means  in layman's terms is that they're discharging more volume and runoff than the precondition so  when the site was undeveloped it had a certain amount of runoff and discharge that was it was  entitled to and in the proposed condition they're discharging more it is a minor increase but it's  still it's still an increase in discharge the runoff rates and the volumes um and then when  I went out to the site visit as you can see here on the first photo in the upper left hand  corner you can see that FPL power pole you can see the Disturbed soil kind of in the retention  area there and you'll see I'm actually kind of standing exactly where that yard drain is  located um but when I went and iness the site it appeared that the constructed retention the  retention system that was out there to date did not match the approved plans um the like  I mentioned earlier the bottom elevation per the as builts uh was as elevation nine as opposed to  eight which means there's less storage in that r rtion system um and then the retention area width  kind of varied um from section to section when I traveled back in the rears it wasn't a consistent  width the approved plans had a 12T top width of uh basically a retention area which is the  sale that we're talking about and there was just inconsistencies with the width there were some  sections where it was six some sections where it was eight so it didn't match the approved  plans also like I alluded to earlier the outfall structure was a 12-in that was constructed but per  the approved plan PL of 24 in outfall structure was supposed to be installed uh the also the  rim of that outfall structure was set lower to Elevation uh 9.12 instead of the 9.25 and what  that does is it allows water to get out faster right when you have a high when you have a higher  bottom and a lower weer elevation essentially you have less volume so that causes water to  kind of go out faster um and and then so on the as builts they didn't have enough information  they didn't provide information on the size of the pipe that was running to the existing inlet  at the driveway so I took a measure down photo that you can see on the lower right hand corner  to confirm it was actually a 12-in pipe per the design and then as I stated earlier that proposed  type-c structure was not installed instead that 12-in pipe just ties directly into the inlet so recommendations since this project was approved the plan was approved Kim Horn recommends  that the storm water management system should be reconstructed to be consistent with the approved  plans and that means the retention area and piping associated with it um and then new asil should be  provided once the storm water management system has been reconstructed with adequate de details so  that we can ensure that those plans are consistent with the approved plans the as bolts and then any  further modifications to the retention area should be reviewed by City staff to ensure that the peak  discharge rates and runoff volumes don't further increase and that the water the treatment volume  is still provided um and then remedies for the existing Inlet is to basically install that type-c  structure um and modify the existing structure per the approved plans and the approved plans  that existing structure was supposed to be raised up slightly and then and then covered so that it  was consistent with the driveway slope and then if that's not if that's not able to be if that's  not feasible um then there is some option to regr ra the driveways of lots two and one and two and  then raise the existing Inlet tad just making sure that that's still a low point in the road because  that collects the drainage from the road and then you can smooth out that slope transition from the driveway and that's basically it I just wanted to kind of go over  briefly and then I'm here to answer any questions be happy to all right  thank you very much I appreciate it I do have a question um the review of Mr  uh the former Engineers letters was that a part of the scope yes there was three letters that were  in the PSA that was I had access to one letter um he the previous engineer approved the design plan  back in 2020 and then there was another one where he reviewed the let me see here let me pull it up so yeah on December 2nd 2020 the the previous city engineer approved the uh site plan basically  reviewed the updated site plan and recorded plat for Filmore town homes and recommended  City approval for each and then on August 5th 2022 um he reviewed the record drawinges uh that were  submitted by Allen engineering and he noted um kind of similar deviations that I've noted  in my report so he noted that there appeared that the cross-sections um were inconsistent  um he also um noticed that the bottom elevation was higher than the design and recommended that  the engineer should approve this construction Ure that does not impact the drainage storage  calculations so that make sure there's still enough volume per the design um he noted the  uh the that the plans indicated the 24 top the 24 structure outfall structure as opposed to  the 12in and then on August let's see here and then August 17th is when the cosos were  issued for um the 316 and 314 Filmore AV sites and then um the cicpc was issued on  October 6 for 306 and 304 and then on December let's see no that's the same one on on let's see there's also a letter in there from the previous engineer where he went to the  site to look at the existing conditions and noticed that the construction the  constructed swell retention area didn't match of the approv plans yeah that was I think that was uh October the day before the cosos was issued October 5th okay  and that was the final one that was the final one I saw as well yeah and so was there any um I guess verification or any issues with the review of the prior City Engineers recommendations  uh was there any that was being recommended by the former city engineer that kimley horn today  would in their findings not align with or see the same way no so no I I agree with what John  M put together but I don't have information on if Allen engineer and responded back to those those  demands or those comments that the city engineer had and from your field observations some of those  did not yeah happen yes that's correct and the as builts the timing I assume you review obviously  the as built bus the timing of the as Bill uh that first letter from Mr uh parar that you  referenced on August 5th 2022 was that looking at the drawings of the as built um that's that's what  he appeared to reference I don't know if that was the exact copy of the record draw lines or  if he had a previous version but it said that he reviewed the Allen engineering record drawings  for the Villas at more and he noted similar deviations that I noted thank you very much um so the approved plans when you it references the approved plans vers the revised plans yes is the revised plans the as Bill or the revised plans would be once fpl's done with  removing the power pole that the retention area get reconstructed back to the original approved  plans so the in goal and recommendation of kimley and Horn is to do these things to to  get it back to the original plans because that was the major pain point for I think  the homeowners that I spoke with is that they want the uh home to match up with the original  engineered drawings and if those recommendations are followed from the scope of what you focused  on they will result in matching up y okay counts any other questions that's all I had at this time  I have one yes please when you went out and took a look at the back area the at I believe it's 306  okay and the one next to it the in between that has the drainage drain in there that's  12 in literally the swell doesn't line up yeah no and from what I'm seeing on the as built um  and then what it should the approved plan that should line up correct what you line up the uh  the actual there's a ditch yeah that actual ditch that's a swell for drainage yeah it should align  up with the asilt but the asilt doesn't have a lot of information on it doesn't show you the  profile of that sale it only gives you the flow path so um there was no way in determining what  that what that um cross-section looked like when the as was submitted but I can tell you  what the cross-section looked like when I was out there just doing my field review  there could have been a difference okay so if they go by the as built so would you re are  you recommending they go by the asilt or the original plan I'm taking it the original plan  origal approv Plans by all engineering y okay and um then also that 12in drain versus a 24 in drain  there's literally it's really the swell is really low compared to where the drain is so I'm taking  it it's that's for it to get to a certain elevation before it drains over into the storm  system yes that's the treat the water yep it's um St John's requires the first flush of runoff so  when runoff hits pavement or roof it collects um dust and debris and plant and so you need a area  for that first flush water runoff to generate go to clean up and then it can d Char out clean water  okay thank you Mr Mayor I have a quick question on the uh I visited the site but I don't remember  exactly if the pavers on the as built match up with the pavers on the preferred plan it looks as  though some pavers are going to have to be removed in order to fulfill the as uh the uh preferred plan on the on the side yes because of the because of the retention area coming more  it's it's actually going to be further south now I can see what you say yes looks like there might  be some modification papers okay how much of an impact would that have because I don't know if the  homeowners are happy with the paver or not I don't know the um impact it would be the pavers that  are north of the doors so it looks like it's just these papers here that would be going away on both  sides of the units for to be able to reconstruct the retention Pond to match the approve plans okay thank you mayor protim any question question council member Davis okay thank you very  much I appreciate your time and and all the hard work you put into helping us thank you City yes  I was city manager I just wanted to clarify because I don't think we'll be hitting this  in the steps document that you have here that the uh we did meet with a contractor and he  was instructed to um follow kimley Horn's interim draft report precisely including  there's two options there pick one of those options whichever option he chooses he needs  to comply with the conditions of that options but that requires a revised document uh that  plan is going to be the responsibility of the contractor to obtain that plan and he has been  striving to get that revised document from Allen engineering not quite sure what the status is of  that maybe Dave has an update but the purpose of getting that revised plan I want to make  very clear for the record that will be the document that accompanies the permit the city  issues to reconstruct the Swale and do all corrective actions that is forthcoming is that's  in the contractor the ball is in the contractor's court right now to get that revised document bring  it in get a permit application going we'll review it it'll be sent to kimley Horn for review if you  approve it then and there's no other comments we will issue that permit and the reconstructive work  can happen from that point mayor thank you and those were when we go to the kimley horn recommend ations the revision on is that mentioned guess where does that come from the  options listed there I don't have it yeah I'm on um page five the recommendations okay the last existing Inlet remediation options one and two really this  whole whole page they need to comply with mayor yeah it's it's basically all the recommendations  and the recommendations break it down into each kind of system so you got the retention  area you got the yard drain you've got the um Inlet those are kind of like the three um  things that make up that storm water system so we gave recommendations to mitigate each  but the long story short is just referring back to what was approved by the city back in  um 2020 and keeping as close to that design as possible so I wasn't involved during the  design and perming of the original um approved plan so I don't have the answer to why it was  constructed the way it was constructed opposed to you know aligning with the approved plan so there  might be some input from Allen engineering they say hey we couldn't we couldn't do that proposed  structure for XYZ so that's why that section that second option on the inlet remediations  there for you know possibly raising that Inlet up just slightly regrading the driveways so that  it's a better slope transition CU right now it's a pretty big um slope transition from that existing  Inlet to that driveway on that second option yep where is that gas line that would need to  be moved it as I'm looking at I'm looking at the proposed original plan yes so it's right  in between the Green Space when I was out there on the site I have a picture of it see if I can  pull that up but I had a picture of it it was basically right in the green area between the  two driveways there was a gas line flagged and there was a there was a waterline flag in that  area okay so um in between the driveways you said in between the driveways of um lot two  and lot three so between the two buildings perfect thank you that Y in that green space yep in in this report mayor just says either of those options are acceptable to meet the  city code and but one of them would conflict with the original design the one of them would  conflict with the original design that's if Alan engineer came back and said they couldn't they  had a tie structure right yeah and how would we approach that okay that that could be and  the the request of the owners is they want to uh get it back to the original design and so  if I understand in the event Allen engineering comes back and says they can't do that a new  design would have to be approved by the the way that this has been explained to the contractor  is that these are options available to the contractor to have the the plans revised to  show which option you're doing and then submit that for a building permit and review to kimley Horn okay and the owners will be involved in that um at this point i' I'd like to hear from  the owners on that um I don't know if the owners are here well I think if we're um the the request  to restore it to the original design if it can't happen I think if something else happens in their  yard they should have a say I think we're assuming that the the location of that box and that space  between the grass space is the preferred location and I would too I look at that and I say I think  that's the preferred location from a aesthetic perspective at least so I think um at this point  we should clarify mayor that it is our goal and intention that that be the preferred place for  it and if it cannot be then explain why it cannot be and then the other option is the second choice  can we all agree on that as the options yes I think it sounds like that's okay the two it in  both of them might be better than what exists today I don't yes know I think my my request  would be that the if the contractor says yes when we're on um other property where they may not have  uh a preference is appreciated and I think any other areas obviously they should be involved on  the findings and recommendations where it does fall within their property lines we'll be sure  to create correspondence to the contractor on that point Dave that there's a preferred option  A and if it's not available explain why and then option b is available Mr Mayor yes mayor per Tim  just have a question um maybe for Todd um how long will this take with the contractor to revise the  plan and and get this work done um permitting and all that kind of a crystal ball question  Dave I think you're closer to that industry than I am how long do these things typically take I are we talking years months no I wouldn't think years not years um again  that's a very difficult question to answer um it depends on the the contractor or excuse me  the engineer's workload um if if the contractor and the engineer are able to work out a mutually  agreeable business Arrangement um um you know we we cannot force the contractor to say you are  going to use Allen engineering it would it makes sense for them to use Allen's engineering because  they've got a lot of the work already done and it would you would think it would be expeditious  and and financially would be the way to go but um um so anyway saying all of that I mean I I I  would think that they could get something like this done within 30 days um well that's is as  a city we can't say okay this is what needs to be done and this is your timeline and I mean we  cannot say that no ask Anthony thatony can we do that tell them they have so much time to get this done um I think you can tell them that you would like a done byas certain time period but as David  indicated with respect to engineering and doing the necessary plans in order to get  the permit and then Kim Horn's permit review um you know that that that could take a little bit  I mean it's unpredictable um so I mean yeah certainly can try to get them to do it by a  certain time period but it's way has drove G forever yes we have and and I'll let uh the  mayor protm and the rest of the council know I've already been in communication with both  both the contractor and the engineer emphasizing to both parties the importance and the urgency  of these items um so and I believe that I've I believe I included that information in the  update in the in the task list that we sent out but I've I've stressed that item at least  several times to both parties on how important this is to come together um I you know I'm a  little hesitant to get too involved in the in the direct negotiations between the two parties  but I think from a city perspective I've I've uh I've certainly let him know how important  it is and how urgent it is and this all of this change and everything is on the contractors they  have to pay for all this not the a homeowner we we have not weighed in on that and talked  about who who's paying for what that's not really something we we typically asked for  we require a permit we require a contractor's number and we require this work to be done so it would be a negotiation between the contractor and the owners I think it's going to be well my understanding is that the uh the  the based on some comments I've heard from the contractor and the developer  that the the the financial obligations would lie somewhere between the two of them well I if the contractor didn't do the plan as planned why wouldn't he have  to pay to fix it but that's like a civil thing between private yeah parties which leads me to  a question of we've had this going on with Filmore and isn't this contractor working on  another project right now on Jefferson or one of the other streets which really now  makes me very nervous that we might end up in the exact same same situation we're in right now is is is he working on another one this contractor um yes and is that on  Jefferson yes multi-unit like this yes almost I'm not going to say the identical  project but very very similar have we been keeping an eye on that particular project yes in light of this one because it makes me it makes me want to leave here  right now and go out there and look at that one to see if we're gonna have the  same mess on our hands we share your concern and we're also looking into that okay thank you Council any more questions for Kyle kimley horn thank you again thank you so yeah my big  uh concern is just making sure that the property owners are involved in the decision making process  on which revision is really important um because I guess you're saying that's not needed in the  public right away where they are where the inlet is located that the homeowners I'm sorry I missed  the first part of the question what was that it's in the RightWay where the inlet is the  Sea on the southern end of the property yes that that would not require homeowners consent because  that's Municipal no I I think the homeowners if they're here tonight the message is clear  that option A the first choice is to relocate the storm Inlet to the Green Space Between the  where the mailboxes are and if it can't be for whatever reason explain what that  reason is and then option b is acceptable if they follow the recommendation of kimley horn okay yeah what I heard was that two options were recommended by the engineering  firm and the contractor will agree to do either option or is looking into that has  been clarified today as of today that's been clarified that they're going to be  directed to option A if not option A why not explain that we'll communicate that  to the homeowners and then they'll have no choice but option b okay um thank you any other questions Council on on this talking about item number two the engineering report okay let's move on unless any other comments from  our city manager staff none on this point no sir no sir thank you item number three was to request plans and confirmation on a date for FPL to remove overhead  lines and reinstall all lines underground consistent with the city code at the time  FPL did not due to security concerns FPL stated they generally do not provide El  El utility plans we learned that in in March n FPL has installed parallel underground service  lines which are energized Spectrum has begun removal of its overhead lines once they have  completed their portion of the removal FPL will remove its overhead lines I think this  has been this would be will be updated uh since the I think last tax task sheet showed this was complete city manager is this one that we could say is finished yeah I think we can check this  one off sir may I throw something in there yes please um I would not consider this Complete  because when they removed the pole they left around 2 and 1/2 ft of rusted rebar with the  broken in sticking up in the backyard which is a safety issue to me that should be definitely  handled it should not be sticking up where somebody could trip and fall on it FPL left it  or the I believe so I believe it was FPL when they came and took the poll out the owner can  uh verify that for us but so to me it is right by the poll and to me that absolutely needs to  be rectified are we familiar with this this the first time hearing about it sir Dave do  you know anything about it I'm familiar with it and I've already contacted FPL to rectify  the situation okay um and this is this may not even be our place but I'm going to make it a  ask anyway we need to put something foam uh tape something needs to go over that until FPL gets  out there and it may not be our responsibility but it needs to be um unless the City attorney  advisers otherwise I have no problem asking staff to put a couple cones and caution tape out there the attorney is less otherwise advised I mean it's a drainy public drainag for emergenc property owners don't like it they can all right thank you I'd also like to mention  something too on this item before we move on is that my understanding or my well my belief  is that fpnl worked outside of the public utility easement when they installed these parallel lines  I brought this to the attention of fpnl asked them to look into it um and that is not been  resolved to my satisfaction yet so that is a another item that is yet to be uh put to bed  and that was I observed over the weekend as well it looks like they went too far toward  the house with the with the utility easement and did not actually came through the yard for other  ones when it should have been out in the easement itself yeah I agree the the work looks like it  came too far south now that is just a that's strictly me eyeballing it I can't sit here I don't  I don't have benefit of a survey uh versus where the lines actually are located um but I've brought  that to their attention and I I gree Dave from what I observed and took a look at and that puts  you know that that's needs to be rectified by FPL as well simply because that is one of those things  where somebody could dig into a power line since it's in the yard itself versus in the easement yeah okay so this one uh I think some concerns on it being completed correctly with FPL are  understood and we're we're working towards I think those solving that those issues as far as the the  depth of lines being buried underground uh is that something that we follow behind FPL and and check  or do um CU that issue was raised I guess for the I don't know if it's the portion that from  the pole to the to the home and then with the sale and all the digging back there where does the city  come in to ensure those all underground is the covered properly the burial depth of underground  conduits is covered in the fpl's electrical service standards manual and they did this  work by their own contractors as I recall and they have the authority to do that in their easement  and they are allowed to do it without benefit of a permit or inspections from the city as part of  the franchise agreement I think that's part of the problem is that's why it's things are sticking out  of the ground so we don't have any authority to go in and and say you bury the the rear the wire  and uh your 6 in oppos to whatever 2T and you're in the backyard instead of the easement and see  that's the thing that I see as a big issue because um the power companies as well as cable companies  and those types of vendors they Mark where lines are located and where they install them and if  they don't install them in in the eement they're not aware they're there and when you need to dig  in your yard you call them to find out where the Lin are but if they're not in the spot that they  said they were going to be in then you have an issue with someone hitting it with a shovel and  go you know that having a safety issue from it so because of the fact they brought these  the the literally brought the infrastructure into the backyard versus their easement you know we've  got an issue but yet from my understanding as well we were never able even and you know when  I was working in this environment with commercial buildings we they told us where the easement was  versus us being able to Define it and that kind of thing so how we would go about notifying them  it's in the wrong spot I I guess Dave do you have any input on that well not not any more than I've  already stated here today um you know as as Todd said they work without the requirement of permits  and inspections because they have design standards and the right to construct to those design  standards in their franchise agreement but can if they do not follow their own design standards  does the franchise agreement state that they will follow the design standards and I I think I think  what I'm hearing is that there's a dispute about whether or not they follow the design standards  just wires sticking out of the ground and the the the question from the homeowners about the depth  throughout this whole process and how it's changed and whether or not um you know when they come in  to dig or alter the the storm water the Swale in the back that's right where the lines go  and so um you know I didn't read through all the details but in general it's were the lines covered  properly since this was just redone uh it just came to mind and okay I I I wanted to understand  our role and if it's a franchise agreement that has the design standards and we both signed the  franchise agreement seems to me we signed up for them to honor those and we could that would be  leverage yes sir I I think that could be a a review of the of the um franchise agreement to  say how we might dispute um an inst a particular installation is not in compliance with the design  standards that would um I would ask for Anthony's help on that how we go about doing that what our  rights are there and mayor Morrison one one thing that may work with this is since the easement work  has to be done for the so um and the drainage retention and all of that maybe uh requiring  FP to come out and mark the current locations of the cable will tell us and show them if it's in  the wrong spot if they go marking along the back part of the fence which is the easement  um I'm going to tell you what I saw it appeared I'm actually in agreement with  you Dave it appeared it went through the backyard at 306 versus 306 and 314 yeah  the two the two outside units I think the lines were maintained in the RightWay or excuse me the  easement but I think the two internal units may may be may have a problem it appears that  way but if we ask them to Mark those for the worker if the developer does um as one of the  steps that we need completed by him that may help us in determining where FPL thinks it is I think it's uh clear we' like to figure out what we can do when these issues that no one I think is  disagreeing with or physically visible and um concerning so I know our City attorney talked  about the franchise agreement and encouraging to make that a part of urgency and I know we waited a  while for them to to do the work they did and now here and it's got issues I think we all wonder is  this now going to be get back in line essentially and wait another month I I I think um in hearing  about all this today I think trying to think of the most logical way to approach this and I I  think it's a two-fold process Dave contact the um governmental Affairs person with FPL let them know  that there's been uh concern about the placement of the U Utilities in terms of their location in  or out of the easement but also the burial depth we'd like them to confirm that all is kosher and  the other one is Anthony looking at the franchise agreement and how we might approach this if we  have if we find that something is not Kosher how do we how do we what are our rights as a city  um if we find something's not in the right place or at the right depth I mean as as I noted I mean they are subject to the Public Service Commission  and Public Service Commission rules so the city does have limited some limited jurisdiction to uh  enforce certain things but if if it's not in in compliance with their tariff obligations um you  know if it's in a right of way the city obviously has more of a direct stake if it's on private  property and it's a service line on private property you know the private property owner  you know has some responsibility too to notify the power company regarding um problems that they see  on there on their particular property um you know in this particular case I'd have to look through  the franchise agreement I'm scrolling through right now um because the city did not establish  certain rules U for for Florida Power because it the city can't because of the preemption under  the public service commission's jurisdiction so I'd have to look at it a little bit more  detail but in terms of location that I think is more of a straightforward issue you the private  property owners too can notify F fppl if they have installed improvements that are outside of an EAS  because FPL just like any other utility needs to install their their utilities  within easement areas and if it's outside of the easement area then you know they need to  they don't have the right to be elsewhere so that that's a correction and then I suspect when the  when they go when the developer goes through and red do the storm water facility that will  trigger an 811 requirement right with respect to uh flagging you utilities as well um so you  know that's that's going to that that's going to happen as well um and they will regardless  of whether the utilities are in the easement or not they have to flag the utility where  they where they think that they're located and um if they don't do anything at the very  least when they flag 811 you'll find out where those utilities are located and whether or not  they're in the easan area um but hopefully they can resolve that issue before then yeah  I I this was verbal conversations but pardon because that'll that could potentially delay  yes um the redoing of the drainage SW because the utilities need to be properly located in  the right location at the right depth yeah yeah I in my verbal conversations with them  they indicated that they were going to get a survey crew out there to identify exactly the  the location of the easement versus the lines so whether they've done that or not I don't know but  it's certainly on their radar screen and they're aware of the issue is there and is it on the task  list for you to do continued followup on it will be put on the task list as of today okay to look  into this location and depth issue make sure FPL is aware of it ask them to verify location and depth okay okay are you any other comments from anyone that uh item number three of the five and the other two uh are really I think what  were what will we discussed and scheduled for May the 7th if I understand is number four  is utilizing the engineering report above to exercise available remedies to gain compliance  and identified city code related deficiencies and Report status updates to the city council and then  item number five well number four the last status to stay consistent from our city staff was that  awaiting a receipt of the kha engineering report I think we have that now so we can but but we have  identified a city code related um item that will be in that report of findings thank you any other  comments on number four Council seeing none item number five is city manager and City attorney to  present any findings Andor opportunities in a report to be distributed to the city council  and ways the city can improve our Community Development Department this is to be presented  at a future Council update is this something for May 7th or something after that's something after  um there's going to be probably multiple code revisions that come out out of this that and City  attorney and Dave Dicky and I have been talking about we think that there's this is a good time  to take advantage of this lesson learned to fix other things that could be those other trip spots  because the codes have not kept up with practices and duties and responsibilities I can't say we're  going to catch them all but I sure hope we do I think we got maybe coule our best shot yeah there  there's a lot in there that's just outdated there a lot that needs to get tweaked not more just more  than tweak needs to get changed I look forward to that I think in the order uh to summarize um item  number one uh is partially complete and uh I think the building official statement is something that  we're working through um the engineering report item number two is complete and uh we had a  chance to have a nice overview of that and and I think any questions as we uh dig into it will be  helpful as we watch this project um changes happen uh which is ultimately I think what we want and  then item number three uh the big part is finished but there's some loose ends uh with the condition  of the wire rebar sticking out and also um how we can uh utilize the PSC rules and our tariff or uh  to expedite and also verify you know what our what we can inspect what we what standard we can hold  to um and then four is going to be May 7th and five will be ongoing something we're going to work  through Council are there any other comments on uh these five for Filmore Avenue I have a question  yes okay so if the homeowner has some issues that are building related um how how what is the proper  mechanism for the homeowner so for example some railings that are not securely attached to the  floors on balcony um vents that are out of code on the roof things of that nature what is the  situation with that because I don't know what we would do in a case like that where we've already  issued occupancy permits but there's notable multiple other things that the property owner has  that did not get built out to the site plans such as the reten the reclaim water they were supposed  to get four connections they got one that's in one of them's yard that feeds all four um some  of those things that were not swell related city manager I I'm a recovering building contractor I  I was in the business for probably about 15 years and I can tell you and I'm also in my years in  project management it's always in the contractor's best interest to solve those with the homeowners  by just calling them up and say hey the thing is loose or it's missing a connection come out and  fix it and that's typically what happens um in in any case where um we we see a deficiency that is  um addressed by our code um is a Code Enforcement thing if we're called attention to it and I'm not  necessarily referring to Filmore Avenue but any place we go if there's a problem something's loose  there's a loose railing that can become a Code Enforcement issue uh with with owners to address  that certainly we don't want that to happen here I'd encourage the owners to work with the first  route which is with the contractor directly so if the vents on the roof were not of to code  that would be you guys that would they need to contact I I would think of if I was the builder  if there was something WR I don't know what the problem is but if I was a builder I would be  out there taking care of it especially if with within a warranty period okay okay thank you m  Dave did you have anything to add to that no sir okay so we're at 2:15 p.m. we got through those  first five I think we should take a 10-minute break recess we'll reconvene back on Jackson  and at the end if we need to Circle back to anything Filmore and Jackson collectively I  think we can we can do that but no one oppose take a 10-minute break reconvene it uh just before 2:30  start back then okay take a recess thank you I I'll I'll scratch the rebar pled lot e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay need call the meeting back to order it is 2:33 p.m. need to unmute the mics there we go thank you  and for those of you listening at home uh thank you again for tuning in we are in our uh special  meeting today uh going over the items information was provided back at the March 19th informational  only item regarding the January 24 2024 special council meeting uh we just got through uh on the  building side regarding uh Filmore Avenue and now moving over towards uh code enforcement side uh  regarding Jackson Avenue similar to Filmore we provided uh five tasks and uh I'd like  to go through the same and before doing so just emphasize uh the goal here is to uh become better  and to tackle an issue that has been a major challenge in this city for for years dating back  to the 2012 visioning and uh code enforcement has been a challenge and so um this has been I think  so far since January uh very informative and I appreciate the entire council's uh effort to to  stay on uh these tasks and try to see that they're through and so with 11618 and 120 Jackson Avenue  if you're yes council member Davis I just have a quick question earlier we voted that we were  going to wait for the findings from the city manager so why is there anything that we need  to go over today that he would not be able to find be have finalized on the 7th or are  I just want to know why we're discussing it when he's we're waiting for the report  from the uh city manager well the findings as the last time was item number four uh or item number yeah it talks about remedies and also findings in items four and five um but again  that's one to two items really related to five we have not received as a council and been in  the same room uh an intentionally placed agenda item to discuss the progress of all five and so  uh items one through five my goal was to get an update and then to continue  to provide these uh ongoing and with that we've scheduled a May 7th uh meeting to  tackle one of the five and so items were stated to be completed um but we have not  discussed I did express my my concerns with what we are considering complete  and some additional concerns on the uh the data that was provided and since then we've  had meetings that I've had the opportunity to be a part of and I know this Council has not  but we really haven't sat and went through and received uh uh an update since March or have  we really discussed it and so that's the goal um but I agree with you council member Davis that on  the findings portion of it uh I think city manager made it clear that it it was his intent to do both  Filmore and Jackson and I think we can move right through that one um which is get number five the last so with that item number one I'd like to go through is um to provide a report showing  all actions and correspondence related to code enforcement at 114 11618 and 120 Jackson Avenue  for the period from January 1st 2016 through January 24th 2024 the report shall include all  records available whether generated by the city's bsna Software System or any other record storage  method employed by the city's code enforcement department the city staff provided a response  to this item was split into two documents attach attachment 4 which was provided at the  March meeting includes an update for the requested enforcement activity report and it also says that  the following folder was created for us in laser fish that contains all of the responsive email  correspondant with the link on how to access that folder uh in laser fish uh my I think the comments  here is that we are I believe still waiting on what I would say is is a report showing all  actions because when I went in to see the these particular instances I think we've discussed the  issues and I think we heard today from miss schaer that she is optimistically working through them  and trying to overcome uh any concerns and questions and our city manager but the the  public records folder um if you've had a chance to go in and look at that it is very difficult  to understand what those items are uh and there are some limitations if you do not have Microsoft  Office email when you click on them I think you have to have some third party to be able to  actually view those records um and so that is what I would say is data that is to support the time  frame um and certainly requested but my hope is they take that in combination of the field notes  and the goal was to be able to see 114 16 18 and 120 over that period in a report style format that  shows uh history and all actions taken and so I think that this is still very important um I also  think that this was the most attainable easiest win and what I'm saying is is what was provided  in March we are working to to revise and I want to make sure the council still believes this is  important this is not a matter of findings this is simply showing uh what the city's actions have  been on those addresses over that period of time and I hope we have uh a time where we can produce  this report quickly and I think by implementing uh these measures we'll be able to do that so  with that number one city manager if there are any changes in updates since then I don't think  this one is complete as of today but I believe is it fair to say you're working towards that with mic is locked and I can't unlock it I don't know why it's again yes we we will be providing a report and it will be a better report  than you received last time and um I will take responsibility for the failure to properly communicate thank you very much um Council has any other comments on on this particular task item on number one on item number one for the Jackson Avenue properties okay um I know that  our city manager will give an update but I think that is this one in regards to bsna  this this one is in regards to bsna and all records available for this this property the  report was meant to be a single location in report style format as clarified by the  mayor and it got bifurcated and it wasn't labeled as a report and I think that was  uh not well done and that's what I'm taking responsibility for we're going to get that correct all right the other thing um is on in and I discussed this with city manager  before but I think with any record that we have um that we're working a draft on we  need to Watermark those things so that we know what is a draft that's in currently in process  and what would be a final document mayor that is one of the points uh in my findings thank  you Miss Jackson um she and I had opportunity to discuss that and that actually will be one of the recommendations any other comments council member Jackson this time well I wasn't able to find the zipped files that we discussed I was trying to look through  and see what we see from a public standpoint as far as going through bsna and it's difficult  when you don't know some of the things some of the projects and that kind of thing that  the group's been working on but I would I think it would be having implement government systems  at state federal and local level um I want to continue digging through the system to see if  there's anything that I can find that I can add um input on as far as um what it looks like public  facing because typically government systems are very difficult to shift through find information  um and know what all is happening so I'm that's kind of an ongoing project for me to try to get  my hands around that I haven't seen any of the zip files but that's what resulted in the conversation  that city manager and I had about be having things Watermark is draft or final so that we know a  document is in process even for Council that may be looking in there in regards to a project that's ongoing yes and I think um in my time working through this the bsna software that we use is  downloaded on the computers but I think we have unlimited license uh which means we own  the software and put it on as many devices uh approved and it would be my request that city  council and our computers have access maybe it's there I clicked around could not find  it and have the same functionality so that we can quickly search uh the what I've been using  is the public facing side and uh it does not allow us to run our own reports uh view only  not suggesting to make any edits uh or anything like that simply a view only capability with some  um reporting functionality that we could we could utilize and see because that's I think  going to make us better and more responsive to the public um also mayor yes um when we go in in  the tech world and Implement systems into these environments uh and I'm not sure when we got BSN okay thank you I'm fairly new at this so um I'm not sure when that implementation  occurred but it certainly could have occurred with a contractor in place and so a lot of  times when implementations occur with technology into the government especially into government  environments the person that is on the vendor side implementing will go in with basic things  to make it as easy as possible because of the amount of records that are out there into  in the system the amount of database that they have to convert over to make it go live and  things like that it may be we may be at a point where we need to look at the functionality of  this and see if there are ways we can make it better because like I said usually with any  system implementer you're going in with basic things and it may be the right time to do an  evaluation of that and especially now that we have someone in it that's with us permanently  that gives us good resource of our own to get our arms wrapped around what functionalities are  we using are there any that we aren't that would make it easier for our public facing  interface on the web as well as the licensed copies that we have in place and also for all recordkeeping mayor if I could I think that's a good point um that kind of review of how we use  and want to use the sna we've learned through this investigation there were things on there that were  not helpful at all in fact there were things that were confusing that was on there um but we should  talk about what the purpose of having that as a public facing portal is to be helpful for people  and it should only contain information that is accurate and helpful in every regard we don't have  to see how the sausage is made nobody needs to see that but those actual official record documents  those field notes about I went out and visited the property on January 20th you know I I wrote  an email to the homeowner whatever those field notes and actual official documents are really  all we need to see on there that's what we care about that's how people can go in and look and  see what's there and I I think if we if we look at it through that lens let's just clean this  up and just move forward this way only thank you I am looking forward to that and I think it's uh  it it's going to be really helpful as we all adopt and and become users and more involved and so and  I'd welcome a training with the whole Council if if that would be appropriate so that we can learn  the basic functionality I've been selftaught but I'm talking about really on the even the reporting  side and and being able to look Beyond just a case you can look deep within one property or you  can look Citywide and if we can do that that's really helpful this would have been I think a  report in itself that would say you know on these addresses go back this part in time and you know  export all all actions and uh related files and so um I think the issue here was we we did not  receive what we asked for and the reasoning did not make sense but again and I'm happy we are  trying to overcome that and so thank you city council any other comments for this particular request okay with that we can move to item number two which is to create and distribute administrative  procedures reviewed and approved by our City attorney complying with with Florida state law  and city code to be followed by our city code enforcement officers this is to be presented in  a future city council meeting update This was um really about the procedures we follow today  obviously we have chapter you know 162 we've got our city code um administratively what are we what  are we doing uh internally to ensure that those are being followed understanding those and if they  need to be changed or improved um certainly making those uh so that we can move forward if there's  any update on this that would be appreciated sure I'm happy to report that there has been  a draft presented to me I have purposefully not begun my review of it and the reason is because  once I finished this investigation and my findings I'm going to be zero inning zeroing in on certain  specific things that I want to see addressed in that document and I'm going to read it with  with that lens on to make sure we're covering all those things and then I'll learn what other  things are in there so I see this kind of a as a next step after the findings report  for moving forward but as far as today do we have any administrative procedures that we follow Dave I think Brian and I C can answer that question yes sir as of uh today we have a flowchart that we utilize it tells each  code officer how to start a case how to run through a case and how to finish a  case we also reference as you said earlier uh Florida statute 162 governs everything that  we do and it references our city code and then our city code um adds to that 162 yeah I will add though that you know we've especially during this last month or two we've  been dealing in particular with the Filmore item I think there are gaps or at least gray areas in  those current Sops that we have procedural processes that need to be illuminated and uh  we will be doing that as as Mr Morley indicated we're going to be uh kind of focusing in on those  areas that perhaps are a little gray and uh that we may not run into every day so we're going to  be uh we're going to be addressing that to augment what we do have in place already mayor yes mayor  protim um is it can we get a copy of the flowchart so we can better understand how you guys work  absolutely that was um actually provided I think in the March meeting can you email it separately  to the council and copy me of course thank you thank you mayor proam and anybody on the council  if you have any questions once you get that and you have a chance to look at it just guess you  can give give Brian orai a call we'd be happy to talk with you or meet with you and help you out thank you so the administrative procedures I have a copy I don't recall if it was the last  meeting or if it was one uh back but this hasn't been anything that we have used as  a tool for the public to see what our process is so it's online and you can say here's how we  we operate to set some expectations for the folks who are the respondents on what's expected I think  this has been an internal document that as an idea would be good to not just email to us but  to make a public document and even duplicate it as something on the website in the appropriate  place that says here's here's how we follow here's what we do here and they can figure out where they  are in the process yes are you speaking are you speaking of the flowchart is that the flowchart  you're looking at yes this if that's theow chart that's um that that I believe that's already on  our website um okay I think it may be an updated version I'm not sure that's on our website it  updates every so often because of uh code changes and and stuff to that effect but um for the most  part it's there I do believe it is on the website I'll double check that and if it's not it'll be up  today yeah I'd also like to I'd also like to add that once Mr Morley finishes uh with the  standard operating procedures the the updated sop manual that will definitely be on the web page too  so we all understand we're all we all understand the process and the rules of the game so there's  no well I assumed this or I thought that or what are you guys doing um it's going to be right there  so everybody can see exactly what the processes are and time frames and expectations and to that  Point um this is something the mayor and I have talked about extensively for the last  two years actually is and more than that is about establishing metrics and I think that's where a  lot of this is going to come from those time frames if we establish a time frame from the  time that you know a complaint is made to the first visit from the time the first visit is  made to the time the notice of violation from the time the notice of violation to the time  goes to special magistrate if we establish um ideal time frames for those understanding that  you know you're going to have days people are sick believe me I know that you can't get out there on  that day but if you have the idea that hey we're aiming for a onewe turnaround for this and then  we have that capability and the reporting that the mayor's talking about in bsna to hey let's  look at that report did we hit that was it close or was it way out we didn't touch a case for a  year but this person we touched within 4 days you know that's the kind of stuff I want this  to be able to to hit on yeah totally agree I think I think that'll be really helpful  information for staff for me for Brian for the council for the city manager and for the public  yeah that's the kind of information that we want to see totally agree and we're doing that I mean  we're jumping into that now we've we've done a lot to um repair I guess the system and the  way we were using it um however we also have to keep in mind at all times that case each case is  completely different each case has a completely different time frame where one case could go a  year and those kind of explanation things should be able to be understood with a deeper dive into  the field notes about why this was this or why this was that understanding nothing goes like  clockwork ever there's always situations but it should be able to if if you if you run a report  and something comes up that should have been done in in two weeks and it was six months you should  be able to look at the field notes and say well here's why all these things happened and then a  reasonable person would say that makes sense I get that maybe it's about how we we trigger the  the clock each time and U I'm not sure how we're going to build that box but but we need to build  something that removes any perception that anybody could possibly be targeted or felt differently in  code enforcement and that's been the mayor's goal all along here and that's my goal as well  does this this flow chart this was something we created internally as a tool to to use but I  assume it has not got to our City attorney yet uh yes sir that was actually created by Todd  Morley back in a long time was the attorney then and she reviewed it and approved it and um since  then since then I've what what years she work for us was 0708 the original one when Kate Lor  was here yes that was one of my associates I mean that document it's old I but it's a basic flowart  process and I've updated it since like to include the magistrate for example to include the the  changes of it I mean it lays out a basic process I mean but every Brian said every case is different  also the complaint priority of a code enforcement case all those variables that go into valuating [Music] and man yeah I mean as an example that we have to allow for officer discretion if we  have a widower who has an issue with a IP a property maintenance issue and she does  she's living on a very fixed income um it's difficult for us to you know well  I'm just saying that everybody there's different circumstances and situations  that we have to work with um and if we always keep in mind that compliance is our goal then  that will play out I found it I mean you can read 162 in our code and uh or you can take five  minutes and read this you know and it visualize it and makes sense I think it's a very helpful tool  I think getting this updated and using it as our standardized procedure is really going to help and ultimately when we item number one was to request all the actions uh  for those properties and code enforcement that happened and  item number two is then to put it next to our administrative procedures and that's what I think will help provide findings and opportunities number five yeah in layman's  terms with what I think the mayor's referring to is there's there's some history out there  um what goes way back eight years maybe about things that it doesn't show that these things  were corrected we don't know why they weren't corrected or it doesn't tell the whole story  so when we have these documents together we can we can piece together that whole story okay Council we are on item number two uh create and distribute  administrative procedures reviewed and approved by our City attorney  complying with Florida law and City code to be followed by our Code Enforcement Officers procedure is pretty much what we're looking for City attorney no I mean I'll be I think  as Todd said I he's going to look at the draft and then I I'll help staff best I can with the  administrative procedures I also wanted to note that you you may recall that um in 2019 the  city code was substantially revised to amend the city's code to be very cons consistent with the  state law into um remove inconsistencies to try to streamline the code so you know that that was  done as well um and that's how you also went the special magistrate route as well so I just wanted  to just note that because there's been some work done in the code already and I don't think like  administrative procedure wise I'm I'm not aware of any code revisions that need to be uh made at this  point it's it's all more like administrative and operational right yes and that's why I  submitted the SOP because it's more of how we do it from A to Z yeah strictly administrative not I mean maybe that becomes a recommendation I think we're hearing early on not needed but thank you  anything else Council on this one if not we can move on okay so item number three for a city code  enforcement employees provide a listing required certifications training and ongoing continuing  education and Achieve certifications training and ongoing continuing education so again number one  we want wanted to get the facts on what happened over a period of time number two we wanted to see  what is our process or procedures and number three who are the the people um representing  the city going out uh as far as credentials goes that was uh I think provided senior uh  enforcement officer Palmer provided a a list for him and um officer Robinson uh my my only  uh question is is is there any required and this might have been answered ongoing education that  that is required um to maintain your credentials yes that's uh we have to maintain every two years  16 uh cus which is continuing education units and we have to obtain those every 2 years and  that's through there's different courses that you can take to obtain those um 16  cus in the two years uh Florida itself um there is no requirement to be certified to be a code  officer in the State of Florida okay however there is a requirement with the city to at least have  level one from our Florida Association of Code Enforcement which is uh abbreviated as face as  I spoke of um on the first meeting and um every um myself two of the code officers currently have  level one we have a new code officer who will be going to level one hopefully in the next  couple months uh we'll get him through uh so I currently have all four levels and the other  officer has three levels hopefully we'll get him his uh last one and um then we'll work on  the uh our newest and mayor I might add that I routinely see these performance evaluations  coming in with recommended proceed proceed with f uh face two or pH three as a goal for employees and so when you say level one is what our code requires but you're level four for a  lack of better words is that appropriate yes sir the different on the different levels um  like level one is um it's ad I think it's a code enforcement like basically 101 and  then you have an administrative section and then you have a field operations section C and then  um legal section I think there is uh so each uh level is your basically it's just your standard  and what you need to know when you get to the code enforcement at that point in time in your  in your career if you want to call it MH then after that it's all just keeping up with that  it's once you get to that point um it's keeping up with that um those those different things  so every time that you go through a class or you go through a course or we go to a  um uh conference sorry you you'll get that you can get that those those classes the same classes that  you got in your level one two three and four you can get those at the at the conferences or you  can the the officers can go online and they can do those classes online and they get recertified on  all of those classes the the the best part of that is they actually add more classes than what we  normally get in a standard level one or standard level to so now we can you know they can Branch  out they can get more involved with other stuff a little bit better education on um on your uh going  out and actually doing your um U investigations and stuff to that effect and I think at the bottom  of the agenda we it was talked about working towards uh our willingness to provide resources  for code enforcement and to to increase the staff or repurpose and I think that's something we're  going to be looking at in the budget we are and and just another sneak peek that I'm looking into  is um I intend to produce a uh an agenda item for the May council meeting that will be a proposal  from a company to provide thirdparty services in the code enforcement department uh this is  a company that does that they provide building inspection but also code enforcement um and we  would piggy back uh their hourly rate off of another Bard County City but my thought here  and when I shape this up and present it to council it will be um an opportunity for Council to meet  this individual or this rep individuals from this company ask them questions about who they are what  they do what Their experience is and and have them appointed a person in the code enforcement depart  Department who's there really to help us have an objective thirdparty view of how how we do things  in code enforcement in other areas and then learn sitting with the staff learning what operations  from the administrative perspective taking those notes and then talking with staff and say oh have  you thought about this have you thought about that what do you do for here and at the end  of that period coming and reporting to me here's what I see as best practices in the industry and  I would of course share that with Council and then want to take that document that would be worked on  collaboratively with code enforcement department and this company so now we've got a third-party  objective review of how we do things in the code enforcement Department that's a service that we  paid for it and I think that'd be depending on what it costs I think it'd be well worth  the money thank you I think that yes the ongoing education it I assume the city pays for that for  every two years to get your six sounds like about eight hours a year on average and there's a annual  conference and um I think as far as resources go there we are I am the at least thumbs up to  continue to support and it's a changing world out there new codes new ways of doing things and I  would say that this one um is complete uh it would be helpful and I think and still something to  Showcase is uh if willing and appropriate to put those credentials up on the website um because you  know when you read through these I believe they're continuing education certifications that you got  to meet the overall these are all uh things that I think uh short shed a positive light on the types  of Education our officers are going through um and with that I'm done with my comments but I would  say that this one is complete other than you know the dates that was the only thing but now knowing  every two years uh that makes sense and the third officer who will be pursuing level one is um it's  good so any other comments I just have one quick question for Mr Palmer is there anything else we  can provide is there any additional education any other tools that you need or you feel you  need we're afforded all we can technically go to any um class or anything that's offered uh  it doesn't have to be just in the realm of Code Enforcement it could be in an inspecting it could  be anything I mean we have that opportunity the city provides us that opportunity to go  to um basically any course that we really you know that that would benefit code enforcement of course  we don't want to go to you know something else but um yeah that's we we we the city gives us  the tools to do everything um sometimes we're a little low on man power but we may do okay  all right thank you thank you any final comments City Manager on this one thank you we can say that  one's complete which is excellent um number four uh distribute a monthly bsna report of all open  Code Enforcement cases and an annual report of closed Enforcement cases include other important  data provided by bsna such as date created status Andor any other information necessary  to monitor uh this the update we received was that a monthly report will be distributed via  memo beginning April 1st 2024 to provide the requested data city manager status update on that yes I I did a uh went into bsna did a deep dive on bsna so we could clean it up get that  information in there put pertinent information in there instead of what we had in the past so um I'm  I'm actually I mean I have there's there's 1,900 cases in there um I'm working on the open ones  now so we can get that information I do have that report ready I can run that report today I cannot  guarantee you all the dates are in there at this point in time I'm still running through that we  have 80 I I think it's something like that 70 to 80 case open cases that I I have to get dates in  there for um but I wanted to give a good enough you know the the the proper information I didn't  want to give erroneous information or information that wasn't you know that you know that we maybe  care about but you probably well why am I getting this information so um I can run that report today  and I'll be more than happy to send that to the council today and even watermarking it is draft  a or some sort of indication that I think it sounds like you were able to generate produce  the report but when it runs you see you that's not the correct date that field might be blank and you  want to have it consistent so it shows up well and it's actually usable I totally understand that and  I think we are everything I heard this is just the beginning uh but we can get something that  that I think we we like and makes sense uh and this is going to be extremely helpful but like  you and I have said I think the data is only as good as what people put in and um that's a natural  thing it's really all about the ability to run a report I think from our level and certainly our  city manager's level and so I appreciate you uh paying attention to the details so that that it  can be right and I do look forward to that um and I think one thing just keep in mind that  when a report like this is run it's in when when you see the report you see it in a in a snapshot  of time okay cases are ever evolving ever moving ever um until the very end um and then so a lot  of times when you look at this report you'll see things like oh this date and this date don't match  or this States there's no date after this date why is that these these cases are moving forward  at all times you know and and and being I guess you could say massaged a little bit um so so if  I just I put it out there if you see some date or missing or it's inaccurate or you think it's  inaccurate or something to that effect you could always reach out to me I can explain the dates to  you or explain why there isn't a date there or why there is a date there but I'll be more than happy  to put a water mark on it and I'll be more than happy to send that to the council yes Mr Mayor  I'd like to ask the council's Indulgence if if if you will to give us a day or two to get with the  city manager I'm not sure Todd has actually seen the final version of the report and he may have  a little better feel for exactly what the council wants um so uh we can commit to getting that out  in the next several days but I would like to have Todd look at it before it goes out the door I had  a couple yes council member Jackson so I wanted to address you Mr Palmer um 1 1900 open items right  no ma'am there's 1,00 total cases total okay about 7 goodness I heard that and that sounded way high  so the so it gives closed cases in the report as well as the open ones I run two different I  would not I run I would run two different reports I'd run an open one and then I'd run a closed one  the closed one's going to have a lot less dates because we didn't do that in the past and we're  actually um focusing on the open cases right now um and populating that information first  and then once that information is accurate and populated then we'll go move on to the closed  cases and see if we can get because some of those dates may not still be available for closed cases  um we got this this program back in early 2019 is when we actually started using it so there's  probably some cases in there that just don't have certain dates that that um that we're tracking Now  understand um so when we implemented this in 2019 how did we merge the data into the new system from  whatever old system we use so I'm specifically trying to get an understanding of gaps you know  from previously did y'all have to do some manual entry to get some of these things things changed  over and did we pick up a certain period of time that we converted into the system or did we start  from scratch we took the old system they were able to run reports out of the old system we sent them  to bsna and bsna was able to upload them into the system itself it um kind of it it tried to  keep the old case numbers to a certain extent it tried to keep all the information a lot of the  information didn't correspond with the information in the new so we lost you know we lost a lot of  information in there if you look at a report and it says and it only gives you a port a partial  um case number that right there is one of the uh hiccups that it had when it came over didn't  give us a full case number sometimes so there was information lost there was information that was  put into um into like a paragraph form so you had to search through the whole paragraph through the  uh computer jargon to find the actual information it also created um a lot of inspections that we  never that weren't ever put into the system so once it was converted over it looked like we had  like on one case that I just cleaned up it had like 20 inspections on it the case was solved in  the field it didn't have 20 inspections on it so I had to go through and I had to get rid of all  those inspections so there was a there's a lot of there was a lot of work to go with that okay and  and I appreciate you giving me this info because new systems when you convert it doesn't always  do it cleanly number one number two sometimes it doesn't gather all the data so us understanding  gaps as a council is important because data is as good as what's in your database and so it created  extra work for do you think think that from 2019 to now you've gotten the things that were pending  from the conversion like you said you had all those inspections have those all been cleaned  up you know for those that converted over that were not needed or do you think there's any data  out there that's sitting there that still needs clean up from the transition from the old system  to the new I'm sure there is some data out there that still needs to be taken out of the system  so a lot of the old cases that were there in that in the previous system that got moved over a lot  of those cases were in compliance at that point in time so we didn't do we didn't we didn't deal with  those cases because we were ever moving forward we weren't going back to try to collect data or  to change stuff in the that that got moved over in the past because we had a large case load  we've always had a large case load here even back when I was on the only code officer I mean it was  a large case load and so so so it's difficult to manage that case load and then go back and try to  fix things that were already closed right so if you look at it for in the standpoint right now I  don't think there's any case that came out of the that we started in the old system that we still  have now except for maybe a lean that that that is hung out there somewhere okay so we may still have  database Integrity issues from this conversion to the state right because you moved forward based  on what you were working on um so Mr Mayor this is something we may need to look at is because if  our if our public are going out looking in bsaf or bsnf and it's not giving data with Integrity  how are they going to know what they're looking at is it's more it's more of a lack of data than  is an in inaccurate data okay it's so I mean you could possibly go out and look for a case  that was back in that was transferred from one the one system to the other system you're not  going to I mean it's not going to show you like well this this was done on this date this on this  date it's going to be more of a you're looking at it going okay nothing ever happened on this case  and why not back in the you know back in 2016 2015 whatever you know why why didn't anything happen  well it did it just didn't transfer from the old system to the new system because there the the  fields were different the the way they the way we put stuff in was completely different so it's not  a it's not like you have erroneous information it's just you have a lack of information okay  and in knowing that do we have what information that is not there that we have a lack of from  the old system that didn't convert over do we have that defined with procedures of how to  obtain those documents out there for the public we are putting every one of the files every one  of the cases that we had in the old system um are being scanned into laser fish so if there's  any case out there that's that's that you look at and you're like well this case was created  in 2016 but it doesn't show anything it would be in laser fish you should reach out and look at it  and or you could reach out and look at and laser fish we do have some files that still are being  scanned as we speak I mean we had a lot of of of f files that we needed to get scanned and this  was back before we were really into a more of a computer-based system so right but yes you could  you could find that information okay so knowing y'all are working on that which I'm happy to hear  CU none of system transitions are never fun um no knowing that it how many open code or open  cases do we have right now I would say off top of my head probably around 70 to 75 if not more okay I'd have to double check though I think it was 75 the last time I looked okay that sounds a lot better than when you hear big numbers doesn't it  and knowing that you're doing things to address the the old database you know ensuring that it's  getting into the system is is big thing then my last question was possibly for you city manager  is um when we implemented the system I know Brian knows this he work he works on it all the time but  did you have were did the vendor provide training classes for people that interact with the system  yeah Brian can talk more specifically and did we have an implementation a a technician that helped  implement the features of the system with the city yes we had numerous technicians here okay um they  stayed here for I think it was a couple weeks with us and went through everything um you can only I  think go through so much um when with the system everybody knows that A system that that deals with  as much as this system does is pretty much built kind of generic to meet everybody's needs so we  go in after they show us this this this is how it works then we would go in and we can tweak some  things to help us out or what have you but they're always available I reach out to them on a weekly  if not daily basis and ask them how to do this and how to do that there is a in the system itself  there's actually training videos and there's actually walkth through where they can walk you  through anything that you need to know or anything that you need to do you click on it it gives you a  l literally an itemized how to do um thing so we have the the resources are there um we have been  trained on it I've trained people on it it's it's a so for Council those are those tutorials that  you pointed me to right yes and those tutorials I actually went into those and looked at them  and they they walk you right through how to do everything so okay so those are available for  us as a counsil to go through and I just wanted to make sure everyone knew because I re Brian  recently pointed me to them but I had questions on the conversion because as as um Mr prommer says a  lot of times when you convert from an old system to a new not everything moves over we were looking  at older systems and records from 60 years ago that we've had you know over time so I was curious  about those things and wanted to get clarification so I understood when I'm looking at reports that  he'll provide in the future that it is going to be to back to a certain time frame and not all things  may have converted over the way that you would think even though they converted so thank you  thank you Mr Mr Mayor I'd like to make one oh I'm sorry Todd I just wanted to tag on to something  council member Jackson brought up I think you've underscored that there's there's this Gap and  Brian clarified it and that we're in a per period of of closing that Gap I think it's important we  put some guard rails and safeguards in place in terms of disclaimers so people understand where  things are and that they're in transition so for instance one would be hey bsna doesn't have any  records here for anything before this day another one would be hey if you're going into laser fish  and you're looking at these files keep in mind that you're getting part of the story here the  other part of the story may be here so people's expectations are managed that what they're  going through we're trying to fix this we're we acknowledged there was this data transition Gap  we're trying to get through this and you may find some things that don't just perfectly sync up if  that's the case please call code enforcement send them an email they meet with you and go through it  and get you your records yes and that's one thing I just wanted to mention um last thing I guess um  is public records requests they're still live and well and they work really well if you get  a hold of us um I'm more than happy to give all the information that I have that's not located  or can't be located on the in in bsna cuz some information just isn't in bsna okay we didn't  have it until um 209 early 2019 I think you said I mean that's when it really started we started  working in it so there's a lot of information that we don't have in bsna so public records requests  if you if you ask us we're more than happy to give you all the information that we have  thank you council member Willis yeah I think it's critical for us to understand that the previous  system was built as a least common denominator for multiple municipalities and what we do what  the city staff does might be more involved but when you do the data mapping over to bsna it's if  it may not come over it may not have been there and so bsna is going to show a a vac data point  and if and I know that bsna would have mapped any data that was possible to a notation section so  if it's not there it's not there and I think uh we need to commend uh code enforcement for trying  to rectify the issue it's going to take a lot of manual process and I appreciate your efforts on  that thank you council member Davis or May may prend tell him I just had a question on the um  monthly report distributed by a memo um April 1 I did not remember getting that did we get a memo no I think that's I think that's what we've been discussing is we Brian is prepared to push  that out um he could do it today but I'm hoping to get with Mr Morley and show and get him to  basically approve the format so the information that we get to the council is usable um it's  comprehensive enough to give you a give the council a sense of what's going on um but no  that that did not occur on April 1st so are we going to once you would get it approved in all  every month the first of the month we'll get it definitely once once we get the parameters  of this report it'll be as simple as uh I'd like to say is hitting the button and it pop  popping it out but yes it'll definitely be once a month um it's about building the template is  it's about building the template Mr Mayor yes could I could I ask could we not um generate  these reports electronically and disperse them to council rather than printed yeah I don't think  printing yes I think and in the perfect world we'd be go able to go on and just click our own report  and just view it at any time and if they're providing them for us I think that's totally  fine electronically in fact I would rather I would rather have my copy electronically than a printed  piece I've got a filing cabinet full of paper I'm trying to get rid of now so would you prefer your  agenda packets that way too uh yes but I I need special reading material from time to time so okay council member Davis any comments no I have questions but I'll ask later my my uh concluding  comments are I appreciate uh I think it was IMS that was the last system that we used yeah any  fields that that provided I remember the I'm sorry it was Spring Brook that we used before  that IMS was our first one yeah sorry IMS was our two back there was reports being provided  at a spring bck up up till the end um and then when we moved over to bsna this was going to be  a better system and so the reports from uh Springbrook I think were a little bit more  comprehensive uh whatever that final export was of all that um data account wide or or  whatever those were uh my hope would be that any missed opportunities to match up Fields And  even create new fields in BSA maybe Spring Brook had a field that was really valuable  but my understanding is you can create the new field and and map it up sounds like we're  moving towards that but I think we can always go back and maybe even clean up and merge data  um and because the reason that's important is I would like to see beyond 2016 on one account  and scanned is great just to have the record but it's really difficult and cumbersome when  we have to um access a records by public records request and working towards not only all the data  that's important per case but going back in time um that file wherever that's living that  original export from Spring Book perhaps there are some opportunities for fields that even if  it was a third party integrator or someone who has skill sets Beyond us that could come in and  give us the ability to essentially merge the two systems so we don't lose everything prior to 2016  and for the benefit of our city staff I think it would be extremely valuable if you had the ability  to go back in time specifically on this property alone that was a big point and the things that  were occurring during that period of time today we can't see and I think that's that's to that's  an opportunity to to improve so we need to keep in mind that Springbrook was a small snapshot in  time we didn't have it very long we had IMS longer IMS and Springbrook no longer as far  as I know we no longer have access to those we stopped paying stopped utilizing them um I know  IMS we did I don't think I have anything except for a spreadsheet from IMS was a something that  I did for the permitting Department um other than that it's our our records retention is 10 years  if it goes back prior you know further back than 10 years if it wasn't put in you in laser fish  which it should have been it would probably be difficult to find anything back prior to 10 years  ago so that's just kind of a you know they do you know we do get rid of records every now and again  and for our records are attention and stuff so okay yeah I mayor I think I hear what you're  saying and the goal is just to get as much of this information into the public realm as possible so  the council and the and the and the residents can run their own reports as needed um and so  yeah I think with that with that as a goal I think we'll uh we we're we're we'll try to we'll try to  provide that thank you Mr Mayor yes sir so just for Brian and Dave we do not have the original  import exports from those previous two systems see BV file yeah well in whatever format they  had it I don't know how bsna or what they did with the input on that bsna did that for us they took  all that those files and everything and they ran that they put that in the system and it all came  into the system IMs I don't have anything from IMS for code enforcement I do for building because I  pulled it I don't know what Springbrook did with it we give when when when you get a new system as  you know when you get a new system you they ask for certain things you give them that information  and then they do what they do with it that's their system they know how to put it in there  I know what I did back in when we went from IMS to Springbrook I wanted to capture the permitting  because there was a gap in time so I wanted to make sure that we captured that I I don't know  about the others I the the like you said the CSV I don't know where the files are I was just  just curious because as Technologies change you can adapt some of that older data of structure and exactly looking for a workaround So yeah thank you thank you yes if bsna migrated the data from  Springbrook or um IMs I think that they had to get our file that we owned that raw data  and if bsna has it and they export reported it so that they could import it into their system maybe  that's a path but to be determined it is I think a good first step to uh work towards everything  we discussed with the ability to create a report and I have nothing else on this um did you want  to go through point five mayor yeah I think that's uh number four is complete or we are  finished discussing item number four and yes Point number five Point number five is present  any findings or opportunities to be distributed City Council on ways the city can improve our  Community Development Department as it relates to code enforcement and the more I go through  this mayor I see the process of that being after the findings report is distributed to council and  discussed I think the best way to do that is for me to produce a conclusions and recommendations  report coming out of that and and I think the conclusions and recommendations report it needs  to kind of follow the same iterative process that the findings report has in other words me meeting  with staff what's a great recommendation what works the things I've already talked about that  I'm talking to council about and sometimes we some things we're talking about um one-on-one  we'll continue those discussions but also talking with community members like Peg about you know  what are your thoughts on this the conclusions and recommendations document is going to be um a first  stab at here's what we learned and here's what we're going to fix here's how we're going to fix  that but there may be other things that come out of that but this one is about everything related  to the experiences at Jackson so I would I would I would retitle item number five conclusions and  recommendations I would say let's look for a deliverable on that probably in the June time  frame mayor June that's what I'm hoping for yeah well it was really helpful I think when you put  the the updates in the right hand column as we're reading for March if that's something you want  yeah I would May 7th if we can get an update with those revisions or proposed  um that that's really all or need to do is go down the line with the latest update and  I don't think we need I mean these can be deleted out and the new ones can be  put in the you know the update but as far as changing uh findings and opportunities to leave the left hand column just update the right hand  column okay yeah I think this is the one we're um we'll be waiting on and um any comments on number five Council I think May um so with with that going through taking a  step back and looking at at both of these um again thank you all for taking the time to come together  I hope we never have to uh do this again um and I think at the last meeting we talked about uh  keeping it in front of us and the big picture here is yes there's two straight names but we're  talking and towards the end I think about making our our city better and I auditing uh where our  resources and time go and and certainly the and strain it's around these areas naturally due to  the nature of the work but I have learned a lot since January 27th and I've and I've heard I  think our city Administration has as well and I look forward to uh being able to respond to  these quicker and I think while this one might take a while um I think moving forward they're  going to come much quicker and we can be much more responsive so that we can uh provide the  citizens I think what they they deserve and um there is I guess two weeks between now and  May 7th and and and my hope is to be supportive of any way that I can and to continue to sit in  on on meetings if that's helpful if it's not I certainly need to get out of the way and thank  you for the opportunities to do so far um and I I really just want to emphasize that I am I know  that there's been pain in this process but I I am optimistic that on the other side if we can  stick with it it'll be well worth it and I want to thank Council for your deliberateness in all this  I especially want to thank Peg and members of the community and the Filmore Town Homes owners who  have been patient through all this for your help and patience I also would be remiss if I didn't  thank staff because they've been going through this pain with me and we've been uncovering things  and discovering things ourselves and I have every confidence that the staff will get us through that  thank you mayor ptim yeah I I wanted to Circle back for a minute um looking through these papers  and um on the filmm project you know we talked about the contractor and meeting with them have  we established who exactly the contractor is for Filmore we're talking with ABC um Inc LLC  BC LLC is that the name of it yeah I believe they're LLC are they insured and all that yeah  as the contractor for that yeah they're a licensed contractor in the State of Florida  general contractor yes GC yes so that's the people that you'll be dealing with or yes yes  specifically and frankly that's one of the things that we learned is we need to be discussing and  dealing with the right person on the these projects and and we're tightening that up  that would be Point number one let's get it'll be right up there that's going to be in the findings report that's all I had thank you any other questions comments concluding any reports I just com oh John it can it can probably you could probably wait Thank you Lisa thank you Lisa thank you that was nice manager sir comments okay  good good to go with that meeting adjourned