Yeah Good He Good Evening Everyone Today is April 16th 2024 It is six o'clock PM We are at the City Hall Council chambers at 100 Polk Avenue Cape Canaveral Florida for our Cape Canaveral City Council regular meeting I call this meeting to order Mayor Peor Tim Callum would you please lead us in the pledge The United States of America And for which it stands one nation under God and invisible with the Thank you mayor Tim Callum Council City staff and partners and all who took the time today to join here at City Hall and those who are live streaming If You do have a public comment uh or desire to submit a public comment I wanna uh encourage you Please go and pick up a speaker card at the front and provide that to our uh Barra county sheriff's officer Uh and we will make sure you're heard during the public participation portion of the meeting Uh And with that City clerk Would you please call the Roll Council member Davis Council member Jackson here Morro Tim Kellum Mayor Morrison Council member Willis here All are here For the council So this time approval of agenda as written or with amendments Are there any uh Changes that we'd like to see Yes Council member Jackson Yes and you will see that um on item number two Okay It's highlighted They gave us a A copy of that I so concerns regarding alleged potential change alleged to potential conflicts of interest related to the formal council member Strike the former council member with the applicants involvement in past the council discussion regarding Pickle Ball versus tennis so striking alleged Adding potential striking related to the formal council member adding with so this is to amend the minutes Yes Okay I think uh this is for item number one or two on the consent OK I Think number one actually Miss Jackson It's number one It is number one Thank you I think what we'll want to do is We can move quickly now that you've introduced it uh when we get to the consent agenda item pull that OK um or if we can serve that as everything and and maybe that results in it not needing to be pulled but On the consent agenda Yes I think we'll pull it discuss the changes and then adopt it That individual item And Are We looking at anything else on the consent agenda at this time Um I will ask uh here after public participation if anybody wants to poll either one of those items OK Thank you You're welcome Um So Those were items one and two I I think we're anticipating change Are there uh any items that we wanna change the order Can start there We OK with the order of the agenda Yes I needed to move Agenda Item nine to combine it into the discussion with Agenda Item seven Okay So You're voting for a recommending taking informational item number nine and uh incorporating it as a part of discussion Item number seven Yes OK I Think Uh item seven They are the same topic So I I would say that we'll be prepared to reference that when uh number seven comes up Are there any other Changes Council make a motion to approve the Agenda is written I got a motion by council member Willis and a second to approve it as written Um I will just say uh so that we can see is during the report section I do want to discuss um And This is the very end after a discussion I number eight and given an update on The special meeting Uh action items around Co community Development code enforcement related to Jackson Avenue in Fillmore Avenue which we discussed at the last meeting Uh in in uh in in January So in the at the end I will uh like to discuss a few things with the council during a reports And That's all I Have We have the motion on the table in the second any further discussion To prove it as written Nan City clerk Council member Davis Council member Jackson For mayor pro Tim Kellum Mayor Morrison Council member Willis for All right agenda is approved as written this time presentation and interviews portion of the meeting We're at 6:06 P.m. The First is a presentation of proclamation Declaring Friday April 26th 2024 as Arbor Day Uh do we have a representative here In a moment Uh I will read Uh the proclamation come down and join you If you'd like to take a photo together and then have a few words Thank you Okay Official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral Florida whereas in 1872 J Sterling Morton proposed to the Nebraska Board of agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees And whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and is now observed throughout the nation and the world whereas trees can reduce the erosion of our precious topsoil by wind Water cut heating and cooling costs moderate Moderate the temperature Clean the air produce life giving oxygen and provide a habitat for wildlife And whereas trees are renewable resource giving us paper wood for our home And fuel for our fire And whereas trees in our city increase property values and hence the economic vitality of business areas Beau community and are a source of joy and spiritual renewal And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral is celebrating its 35th year as a recognized tree city now therefore I We Morrison mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral Brevard County Florida do hereby proclaim April 26th 2024 as Per day in the city of Cape Canaveral and urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day support efforts to protect our trees and woodlands and plant trees To gladden the heart and promote the well being of this and future generations signed and sealed the 16th Day April 2024 Thank you Well Thank you very much for inviting the Florida Forest service here to accept your proclamation Uh and congratulations on your 35 years Uh just to put that in perspective you'll celebrated Arbor Day more than some people in this room might have celebrated a birthday So Congratulations um and good I wish you well on your tree giveaway for your Arbor Day celebration Um and thank you for your commitment to urban forestry Um and preserving your your urban trees So thank you Thank you I just wanted to add for anybody listening here tonight or at home We will be having a tree giveaway on April 26th That is a Friday that is on the actual Arbor Day from 11 to 3 P.m. here at City Hall We will have 30 baby gumbo Limbo trees available on a first Come 1st 1st come first serve basis uh for residents of the city of Cape Canaveral we'll just need proof of residency upon arrival You can walk up bike up Drive up We'll be here out front with the tent so we'll be doing that Thank you Thank you We do love our trees OK The next item is a presentation by the United States Green Building Council to present the city of Cape Canaveral with the distinguished leadership and energy and environmental design CERT certification Hello again Z So Uh today is a very historic moment for the city of Cape Canaveral and one that I'm proud to say that we have achieved tonight The City will be achieving uh or receiving I should say a lead silver certification for the United States Green Building Council one of the most esteemed uh green building organizations in the world I'd say um this process began uh almost two years ago to the day And Uh we will be rightfully recognizing Uh Hanna Tig Who's here with us tonight Uh she was the intern that helped complete this Very arduous and comprehensive uh audit process that helps to showcase where we're doing Well Maybe where we need to do a little better in our sustainability and resilience program Um this is a certification that uh many might know for buildings specifically but this was a program to certify the entirety of the city of Cape Canaveral which is very cool So uh with that I will let Hannah come up She Uh I'll Never Forget I was voted an email by Todd Uh Hannah reached right out to Todd for an internship with the city She went straight to the top And Uh we accept it uh to have her on as an intern Starting in 2022 and about a month later we started this process and I don't know if she knew what she was getting into Uh but she put in well over 500 hours of work to help us get this certification and um she uh even continued on with the city after she got a full time job with the Florida Department of environmental protection over in Tampa Um and she to the to the moment she said You know she got the project We're gonna get this I'm gonna see it through to the end and she saw it through to the end and she's here tonight to help us receive this So with that I'll Just let Hannah come up real quick and say a few words Thank you Hi good evening So as I said My name is Hannah Teague and I'm an environmental specialist with the Florida DEP however almost two years ago today I started my sustainability internship here with the city of Cape Canaveral And As that said We think it took about 500 hours um from collecting data to working with stakeholders to writing a lot of assessment Um but we finally did it And I thank all of you guys I know that not only to say to the city council but also to every you know resident that I worked very closely with people Not only here in this building at Call but with the public utilities and also with people in the C five building and everyone here is extremely welcoming and very kind hearted and I couldn't have done it without the support of everyone here So Thank you guys very much for helping me start my environmental career very much appreciate it Yeah Thank you Uh with that I will introduce Tara from the United States Green Building Council to give the city council their certification Thank you Zachary Good evening everyone Mayor Morrison and the members of the Cape Canaveral Council It's an honor to be here today with you Um to celebrate this city's silver lead Uh certification with the United States Green Building Council I'm sure that most of you are familiar with the individual building certified to lead But What Does it mean to certify entire city The Lead for Cities rating system was built by and for local governments pursuing a more sustainable resilient and equitable future It is intended to serve as a roadmap in a guide for local efforts while accelerating progress at the Jurisdictional scale Excuse me Lead for cities provides an evaluation of where you are today addressing topics as diverse as renewable energy solid waste management land use planning transportation air and water quality and many other factors contributing to quality of life Cape Canaveral joins a strong community of 24 Florida cities towns and counties committed to sustainability excellence in lead for cities that is the most in the world By the way so Florida is definitely excelling in this area Today We are here to celebrate the Cape Canaveral Excuse me celebrate that Cape Canaveral has reached a big milestone Congratulations on achieving lead for city's silver certification We need more leaders like you taking action on these critical community issues a few example of areas where you led the way include exceptional work on renewable energy implementation resilience planning through vulnerability and capacity assessments and exceeding water efficiency benchmarks compared to your peers your city generates fewer greenhouse gas emissions per capita and keeps water waste to a minimum Cape Canaveral scored highest in water efficiency and energy and greenhouse gas emissions categories Cape Canaveral's focus on maintaining relatively lower greenhouse gas emissions while holding energy use to an efficient standard reflects the county's commit Excuse Me the city's commitment to a low carbon future Your efforts will not only help create safer healthier more efficient and resilient places but also ensure everyone has access to a better way of life This work only made possible because of the committed people and partners I'd like to commend your staff team Zachary Holtz Kyle Harris Alexis Miller and Hannah ti of course 500 hours is a heavy lift for committing to this process and driving that local effort My deepest appreciation goes to the mayor and council for recognizing the importance of this work and committing to leadership on sustainability and resilience with top down leadership support and buy in cross departmentally the results of this effort can be transformative Transformative I'd also like to acknowledge Bank of America for their continued support of our program Cape Canaveral participated in our local government leadership program and the bank has supported this initiative since 2019 With more than $3 million in investment So Thank you Bank of America in closing the US Green Building Council is here We're ready to support you as you prioritize investments and shift into implementation We are excited to be a part of your journey Thank you for your leadership and congratulations to you all So We have the certification here Fun fact this is not the final cert certification Uh the real one is still in the mail Uh we have uh 10 of these cer certificates coming that we can hang around the city or give to council members as they wish And then we also have a glass inscribed plaque that's coming that we can hang at a city facility of our choosing for the public to see So with that if you guys would like to come and take a group photo with Hannah and we'll we'll be good Thank you Yeah Thank you So No See you again Yes OK Thank you all this time Uh that concludes presentations and interviews We are at the public participation portion of the meeting Do have some speaker cards If You uh intend to speak Please fill one out and and bring it forward Um And then for those who are listening at home Uh if you'd like to participate We ask that you please raise your hand Uh we have a three minutes here So when the light goes green three minutes begins Yellow is about 30 seconds left and we ask that you please Concluded it when the red light goes on And with that Thank you all for willing to participate and submit cards The first one That I have Here is mister John Benton OK I'm here for a request to get my code reduction hearing We've been through this man You had a code reduction here and you found me guilty of living in a warehouse I testified that I didn't live in there I lived on Tyler And Then You called Kevin Mann The De at the Space man storage And a deacon at the Presbyterian Church And he got up and testified after I testified that I lived in a warehouse He didn't have anybody living in his warehouse but his son was living in the warehouse Next door many warehouses same zoning and he was on the sex offender site resident Why Didn't you go after him He can't live in there He's a sex offender and it and it says residency And you find me guilty and you wouldn't let me defend myself after he did that The Only part Why don't you ask the lawyer why I couldn't defend myself that night It's probably never happened in Florida anywhere It's like a judge man You think a judge is gonna let somebody throw somebody under the bus and not let them defend themselves You don't wanna give me the code reduction hearing because you don't wanna play that meeting again That board's gone everybody in that room but Brian Palmer is gone so they'll have to play that meeting again And then it moves up and everybody all these citizens can hear that meeting Laughing and mocking and taunting me referring to me as a cookie that crumbled I told you in the first year When Mr Randall is at the very first council meeting I don't know the guy but when I get up and tell him what's happened and then they the code What the code board did he goes I Know you don't live in the warehouse John You live on Tyler Well Why did that even happen in the first place He lost his election first time in 31 years because of that because he trespassed me out in the front He trespassed me out here holding the sign that Judge Crawford asked me to bring here because you guys caused the problem He wanted me to cover up a word on it I covered up now with toys And Now it goes viral Then It's in the paper Look at this guy out here with a toy sign got the nasty word underneath it Boobs You aren't ever gonna I told you I told him I was gonna come into these meetings with Mr Randall said I wasn't going to trash anybody if they aren't there and I told him I said I'm on a trash Kevin man and his church Until he comes in and apologizes to everybody including the deputies for lying to them for four months Four months I don't have anybody in there and I brought the when I came to the council meeting I spent $60 on have somebody blow up the pictures of those people homeless big color pictures so everybody can see it And They they were left in there until the FBI got involved and when they got involved those people were gone You left them in there Yeah John would go up there and take care of themselves and take the law in his own hand I just ignored him I just I ignored him for that's how II I ignore those people for 10 years Thank you The next car to defend himself John we're done Thank You Uh Miss Mary Mask Ka Whenever you're ready Take your time Mayor Morrison and Council members My name is Mary Mascara I'm the vice chair of the Culture and Leisure Service Advisory board Our board had voted unanimously before the last council meeting to recommend Angela Raymond to the council for its approval It was disappointing How some at the last council meeting handled the process to approve or not approve Miss Raymond as a member of our board Some comments about Miss Raymond were negative and out of line from what is typically the case for a potential advisory board candidate Usually Those comments are centered on the candidate's experience willingness to learn and serve and desire to volunteer The mayor also indicated he would vote No if there was a vote because he wanted to change the process of selecting a board member and open it to more people starting with a vacancy that Miss Raymond had been slated to fill This essentially moves the goalpost after the game has started the appropriate time to change The process is before the start of the next vacancy process The fact that so many folks volunteer here is one of the many things that makes Cape can A great place to live The Last thing we should be doing is making it more difficult for those so willing to volunteer Thank you Thank you Doctor Shannon Roberts Thank you I've got six things I wanted to go real quickly here First of all I want to thank Mia and the staff for their research on the vision and Mission statement Since the inception of the city and um their research was so appreciated I know that wasn't easy So Thank you mia and team Um I wanted to bring to the city's attention that the lighting at Shorewood in North Atlantic intersections is extremely poor and causes the pedestrian safety issue at night Um I have spoken to Dave And I think Zach is the one that may have Action on that but I wanted to bring the safety concerns there because it's extremely dark at that intersection Additional lighting would be greatly appreciated Also two way pedestrian crosswise Uh crosswalk sign agent North Atlantic on the northern side crosswalk would be appreciated as well Uh there is a sign on one side and the other side depending on what direction you're going in But I noticed on the Washington intersection There is a There are two sons you know For the two way street and I would recommend that we have two signs on the northern crosswalk as well Um I did want to bring to the council's attention The faded bus shelters as you may or may not know um when we first brought both shelters to the city Uh we had them his dark green consistent with our tree city heritage They were extremely gorgeous They were uh made of wonderful materials to keep them from fading somehow through the years Uh there was some change to make three of them one Yellow and blue and Orange and you may see that they're very faded so I would recommend that the city Um consider restoring us to the original tree green so that its harmonious with the rest of the um city lighting as well as signage as well as the bus shelters Um I'd like to recommend that we consider talking about advisory committees establishing a resident advisory committee looking at the what the city is doing from residents perspective I did attend the business and development Committee meeting earlier last week and got a good sense from them what they're considering and I think that it would be Hooah to have a residency advisory committee to look at the city from the residents perspective I think that may be a gap there for hearing what the residents looking for and then lastly I'd like to ask the city's Consideration of accessible buildings and parking and to ask Do we have an 88 point of contact for city staff Got it Is there An answer to that I Just keep wondering if Todd may be able to answer that question Uh Mike German are building official Thank you so that's where we would bring our concerns to his attention Thank you Thank you Doctor Roberts Uh And I Appreciate you taking the time to write those out Uh which will be helpful to capture those I think we Be naturally getting into some of those with the agenda items as well So The Next card I have is Miss Angela Mary Raymond Good Evening I've come here this evening to clarify that I never withdrew my application to serve on the culture and leisure board Nor did I decline the position after going through the background check the culture Leisure boards interview and the interview by the council I would like council to take action on this matter Thank you Thank you All right that concludes the public comment cards that I have I am now looking online To See If there are any Hands raised Do not see any if anyone like to speak Please raise your hand that did not get a chance to seeing none and no hands raised online go ahead and close public participation Portion of the meeting and again Thank you all for your comments and time Uh All of those comments were heard and I think we will get into some of those in this meeting Um with that the consent Agenda is before us Uh Council member Jackson I believe you need to pull item one If I understand so we can vote on those changes OK Anyone like to pull anything else if not with looking for entertain emotion to approve number two I'll make a motion We approve Agenda consent Agenda number two A second Got a motion by Mayor pro Tim Callum second by council member Willis any further discussion See non city Clerk Council member Davis Council member Jackson For Mayor pro Tim Callum mayor Morrison Council member Willis or Motion passes 50 now moving back to the pooled item number one Council member Jackson You know So This is where we have that handout provided Yeah Yes And for those uh obviously listening and you may not know this is to approve minutes for the march 19th 2024 regular meeting Council member Jackson So We have that uh I Think in in the uh Yes So Just striking alleged And replace it inserting potential striking related to the former council member and starting with The applicants involvement Is there any significance to the highlighted That's Just What this section so that we can find it OK so really the strikes and Underlines are the changes for this particular portion of the sentence Yes Got it Removing striking alleged replacing with potential so that would be concerns regarding potential conflicts of interest Removing related to the former council member and replacing it with conflicts of interest with the applicants involvement In the past City council meetings OK council Any discussion on this or questions or Concerns Council member Jackson if it is your intent To do this I think if you wanna Make a motion I have a question Was this Uh Verbatim Yes I went back to the recording OK Have we confirmed with the city clerk that it is verbatim Yes OK thank you OK so I'd like to make a motion to change as shown on the screen and in the handout Striking alleged adding potential conflicts of interest striking related to the former council member adding with the applicants Involvement OK We can for a second got a motion by council member Jackson a second by mayors Tim Callum and further discussion on this City clerk Does that motion Yeah As written um See none City clerk Who was the second Morro Tim Callum OK got it I made the motion got it Council member Davis Council member Jackson or mayor pro Tim Callum Or mayor Morrison for council member Willis or Motion passes 50 to amend the minutes as proposed Thank you now your items for action Uh item number three on the agenda which is to receive the city engineer's presentation regarding presidential streets and civic hub projects and provide direction to the city manager regarding the using of fiscal year 2324 CR a funds to obtain a task order for the design services for engineered plans for a civic hub underground stormwater ex filtration system City manager Thank you mayor Um we talked about this project Uh these projects that are um our workshop C IP workshop recently and that there was going to be an update at this April Council meeting from Kimberly Horn Um And I'm thank you for Scott and your team for being here when we the City Council approved the um the ideas of looking at the presidential streets of several years ago It's a long term project and and also a few years back City Council um identify the civic hub as a more of a medium range priority So These are medium and long range priorities for the city Uh Kenley Horn has been working on each of them and each of them had a Subordinate study The presidential streets had a subordinate study which was the one way study council authorized Should we look at one way versus two way streets and the civic hub had a subordinate study Which is a um we need to analyze do an analysis about off off site Storm water coming to the civic hub Uh the civic hub has always uh for quite some time now I've been talked about as having a storm water component underground Designed So we know where to build vertical improvements Um so both of those tasks have been coming kind of coming along But Then the subordinate task came in at the same time and we thought we really need to get a more global arms around both of these projects and those subordinate tasks to understand how they all kind of tie together They fit together in the recommendations work together so that council can make informed decisions about how we want to move forward with these Only thing I asked Scott and his team to do is is present All this information do some Q and a but the action item that I'm asking at the end of this is we have 100 and $50,000 in the CR a budget this year and it was slated for selective demolition of certain things that the civic hub property I think if council wishes a better way to use that money would be to put it towards the stormwater engineering design for the civic hub Now that we have all this information So although we don't have to So that question tonight Perhaps We might be able to just wanted to throw it out there and uh but we wanna hear the uh presentation by Kim Le Horn Thank you very much Ready to go Scott Thank you Welcome Well I get set up here too I'm Uh I have a cold Uh I've been doing a lot of traveling and so I I popped in a throat lozenge and I had my water So I apologize for and I'm gonna speak try to speak directly to the mic so I can stay low and then Matt Waner of my office here has been involved And so he he may be back up but city manager spoke so thoroughly through all of it Um sure staff can fill in if I have a coughing attack but I apologize ahead of time And uh City clerk Can I Go ahead and take this Yep Of a powerful chord All of our screens went black Council members Do You see it on your screen now as well Yes sir I'm Not Sure if I've pronounced my name Scott Ming Kim Horn 200 South Orange Orlando Thank you Scott Um I I'll weigh in We can certainly stop Have dialogue Answer questions Uh or ask questions as you need to and I'll try to be brief I have a hard time being brief But Maybe this cold will help me be more so brief Um but I I'm going to as a part of this presentation is an update and as city manager said we're gonna We're gonna look back on what we've done from the presidential streets so that we can look forward to see what some of the recommendations are Uh the main reason we do that Is There's been a little bit of time from all of us that we've looked through some of this process and I I think you'll see And It will hold specifically show how these master planning have had subordinate Uh studies Some we've gone forward with but some of them we've said All right That was our answer and it's a no or some where we think it's a good concept And is it viable and so we've done some subordinate things so we're gonna look forward We're gonna look around the studies and I think the city um Council staff holistically has done a phenomenal job of looking at all of this work and this body of work and how we've interlaced and connected them Because storm water needs to be like that infrastructure needs to be like that We're not just looking at some spot improvement even if it's a park But how that ties to the whole So mainly I'm going to look at uh the public realm project updates that Kimberly Horne has been working on and and again I'll zoom in and zoom out from some of the previous work and then forecast head and look ahead for the final recommendations and hopefully we stay in in uh in sync throughout that the main three projects presidential streets the civic hub and then kind of a Fillmore Avenue feasibility Which is the linking the bigger stormwater project to a number of those things We've already talked about the agenda kind of skip over that but certainly uh staff city manager can talk about timing and funding and methodology As Each of those recommendations come online When You See anything on this Master plan on this presentation that says Master plan in the upper right hand corner That's the actual slide We have pulled forward again just as a refresher but to show you the consistency that we presented probably back in December of 2022 on recommendations and how those recommendations are now being placed and or dovetailing in with what we're presenting uh here today The the framework of the presidential streets was this laundry list of holistic items bike and pad improvements Roadway improvements overall infrastructure How can there be even traffic calming tools that include intersections and crossing and raised intersections potential speed tables and other traffic calming but also created a place for city uh for the civic hub and for the city throughout all of these streets How do we link and connect beach ends And Then How do we think overall with the stormwater improvements And as just as you've been awarded a lead city How do you think about resiliency not only flooding but storm surge in overall storm water and how that impacts the overall development again a a slide right out of the previous uh presidential streets emphasized that number one that blue bar you see over 100 and 50 responses talked about address flooding So everything we do needs to be rooted in that Whether It's the civic hub or street redevelopment And Then again It was documented Uh where recent flooding how that was and what the major impact was and how those stormwater improvements can be multifaceted It's not uh one silver bullet that you do just one project You link them through multiple phases or or aspects that would include exfiltration Um it would reduce impervious areas as much as possible We reduce street wits where practical reduce impervious areas Um and consider other techniques like yours Uh bios swell that is almost complete out here So That's one component that we've been evaluating and this study was prior to the final design of that So These are again are linked in and how these projects become holistic We've highlighted too The Mead and Hunt study that was another overall center Street Basin study that highlighted where those uh basin flooding areas occurred And You can see a consistently around the Fillmore kind of center of that basin area Uh I Don't think I can Oh yes I can Highlight Some of those areas and right through here is that Fillmore area that will consistently show up and be consistent in our recommendations as we move forward And again one of the last elements of the presidential streets was a recommendation on resiliency Improvements that not only included plants and uh Florida friendly trees but L ID practices and it was a holistically I'll use that term probably way too much tonight But thinking about all of the things that build to uh a resilient model And Um and you've been awarded that even lead certification So that's a recognition of how well you're doing The final recommendation and focus areas talked about intersections and streets and I highlight the Fillmore as this is directly out of the master plan and I think we kept coming back to all right Well as we think of a demonstration project of which presidential Street to do first Uh Fillmore kept coming back as a Uh is a critical area when we were doing civic hub study We'll talk about how the Fillmore could be a a driving solution for us to tie that basin area to uh capture stormwater underneath the civic hub project and overall the strategy was uh we needed to be thinking about a sequencing of street projects If we think about all of the presidential streets How do we do them Is it one a year Is it one and then Which one comes first So even at the presidential streets Master plan we were thinking about all right Well How Do we construct these and which one is the best one to do and which one should be done first So that was always on the mind of the master plan and it was even came more clear as we started to zoom in to where the most critical uh mass so to speak or critical public realm improvements and you can see that in large area where you have your government complex You have your rec center which is the civic hub You've got the Veterans park that is almost complete The bios soil that is complete You've been working on C five but still part of this overall That process and so your hub of activity really was around point set of Fillmore in this public realm improvements We always knew that the existing conditions were Uh poor especially on Fillmore Those recommendations even included when we were evaluating one way or two way How do we make really improvements to this street that can include a shared use path on one side or both sides increased uh pedestrian activity And what do we do with the crossings especially at Ridgewood or orange Can We Uh make that public space more safe for pedestrians in that area and create AAA traffic calming so if we raise it up we're making those pedestrians feel like they dominate that intersection instead of the cars So again that was part of the master plan and we've continued to to progress that In the final approach was a generational approach in a phasing strategy I've highlighted Number three which is Fillmore Avenue So again That was the presentation of back in in December of 22 and that has influenced our thought process as we've been trying to answer the question of which street is first and how do we start to organize it Uh and that is really the fun One of some of the final recommendations of the overall master plan So the the presidential streets Master plan is complete made some of those recommendations The subordinate component of that was evaluating one way versus two way and after that evaluation for other concerns for traffic uh for safety for access Um for uh potentially longer response time by fire Uh we have not recommended a final one way strategy but continue forward with it Two way strategy as you currently have it outlined So The study proved uh sufficient as a subordinate study but we just felt like there was enough Uh in that whether it resident concerns and fire and response time to continue forward with a two way Uh recommendation I pause for presidential streets The only thing we have left on that task order is a budgeted um portion of that contract to evaluate grants So that we did a a snapshot of what potential grants could be done to help with the city and we've got about 12 to $13,000 left of budget in that to say OK Well well now that we've got this body of information behind us how do we target a grant Specifically um That may go hand in hand with some other improvements So Which one is that so That's The only thing left of the presidential streets in the one way that is uh unfinished Council any questions on the presidential streets I Think Scott That was You wanted to pause here I did I wanted to pause there because that was a lot and I was It was more history in that but I was trying to forecast and and you'll see hopefully of why the civic hub why the subordinate task Determine Can we hydraulically connect There are some feasibility analysis that we were doing at part of civic hub and then at the very end we're gonna recommend which street and so I think all of that will point back to this as well So I wanted to reinforce that And it sounds like You'll go through these and we can even circle back at the end Any questions at this time I have one question and I know you're already saying we need to stay with the two way predominantly But Would There have been any kind of economic impact on property values Had we gone with an alternative one way Negative or positive Well as you know those streets have a ton of driveways and access and some other things so it certainly would have been more complicated the likelihood of it being negative probably outweighs the positive Uh the other big recommendation was you only have about 24 Ft Of asphalt pavement curb to curb We needed 20 ft at least for fire Safety for access So you're really You know you're reducing it by 4 FT Is that substantially viable or an action that with you know increased Uh response time and some other things Is that a big enough trade off for a positive Recommendation Let me Let me ask a another follow up question on The streets again We have 24 ft And If you're gonna shrink it down to 20 You Better hope nobody is parking in the street But would we Would we gain Any significance by resurfacing with something other than asphalt I made a A pervious or some other type of surface Yes sir and we'll evaluate that and we have some options included in the final Fillmore Avenue feasibility recommendation We have some plan Uh recommendations Some Cross section analysis that will require further engineering Uh analysis but we think it's a holistic approach there I said it again I You Gotta give me a different word besides that but it's uh it's a comprehensive approach And not a silver bullet to stormwater right So There's potential pervious pavers Some other activities Um But probably not within the entire street because of uh some storm water things and high water table It wouldn't make sense and for long term viability of that material Uh the reason the reason I asked the question Um there's also been some uh Study about Uh I can't remember exactly the source at the moment but uh uh traffic calming by using like a cobblestone type surface and it slows down traffic both vehicular and bicycle So I was No We We totally would include that in our tool kit We would include that especially at intersections maybe at some parking areas Um I I Don't think we need to evaluate that for the entire street we could because it becomes costly But Are You getting enough bang for your buck and as a traffic calming device Can you do it at the intersection between areas Uh not too long so people aren't speeding to get to one stop sign to another right But through those intersections through some chicanes through some parking areas can you use Those pavers or other things that act as a rumble strip and give you a little bit of of you know Motion movement I'm going too fast Um and then we've also made some recommendations that will look at a shared use path on one side or both sides uh in the final street so that you can maybe even separate some or give people better mobility options OK thank you Thank you Anything at this time Great questions Thank you look forward to hearing the recommendations Think we're ready to go to the civic hub Uh I'll fast forward again Um and try to give you a holistic approach Uh the civic Hub Master plan Our final recommendation is in your packet This is uh a dental goal to what we Presented the last time as the final option We had a lot of uh dialogue and conversation around this project and it mainly was the And it was mainly around the options Of You know pickle ball and tennis and how many Uh so we'll kind of go back to that not to revisit that but we think that this is a good Compromised that stays in line with our overall master plan and this is what we presented so there's really no change but I'll give you a quick highlight in in case we all need a little bit of a refresher or you have new council members uh here or new public Um we started with the idea of having a consistent frontage along a one A a good face so that you've got this consistency of plaza between City Hall working our way south along That We would terminate Taylor at at uh At a one A and only have pedestrian Uh access that we have an existing sign at City Hall here We would partner that sign this variable message kind of tenant sign at the corner here to the south of the property Is that showing up on your screen as well Is that arrow showing up Yes We see you moving the mass You would do what to the sign you said part we would do AAA sister sign another sign at that corner location so that we would have an anchoring It would kind of be a branding of the City hall complex You would have one sign here and your existing sign here was City Hall and it would kind of give you that frontage along each of those areas and with some options that we've talked to staff about maybe it being have a variable message or have multi Elements so that you can um also You can also uh highlight Uh you know the Nancy Hansen the tennis court The the other activities that are kind of within that civic He uh hub area Uh and then get that frontage area we would close to pedestrian traffic Taylor Avenue we would have you'll see some some enhanced storm water and paving areas We'd also connect to the existing Cape Center and to the uh the parking areas kind of a food truck vendor area that would be located in that existing parking area that is there today We Preserve the wall um of the astronaut the kind of the mural wall but we would remove everything behind that everything to the south of that Is the racquetball courts and the shuffle board courts and within that area we would create a great civic space and open lawn with an amphitheater that amphitheater would be facing away and towards the civic hub towards Nancy Hansen to make sure that we were being respectable of the uh southerly adjacency residential You would have access along the street of Fillmore for some on street parking or some uh vendors or some folks that needed access Uh to loading Uh bands and we want to make sure uh city managers and hauling his uh his guitar too far from the from the street over here to get to the stage so more It's more the amp than the guitar in it And I'm sure Yeah Um and and then again in this area What we are showing is two tennis courts would remain and we have six pickle ball area In replacing two of those tennis But Most of this area is where we believe that the the pickle ball and tennis area will remain and this is kind of the final organization and recommendation in that area The dog Park would remain in place with some enhancements and enlargements We'd have a kind of a gathering space underneath the large Live oaks and then we would enhance access in the parking area that the sheriff's office is currently using Uh we've also added a Even though we have a pedestrian area for Taylor Avenue We have a turnaround here so that we could still access it when we've closed that street off for vendors for uh food trucks and some maybe some parking when you don't have events but for the most part you'd be able to close that street off and have this as a as a great pedestrian street um for tents for festivals and those kinds of activities With some final enhancements along the southern uh side for parking on Fillmore and the Eastern edge along poinsettia for parking and enhancements very similar to what it is today as a part of this study Uh we were always talking about again This this comprehensive approach to how do we create more storm stormwater areas and act as a regional B MP a regional storm water facility just as you've done on C five at the City Park with underground storm water We highlighted throughout these activities and said Well where can we do that And How can we be most effective and efficient Pardon me Uh And and I'll get back to that I just wanna make sure that this is in your packet and this is just kind of some of the final renderings to give you that flavor of what those final renderings would look like in your foreground is that kind of civet hub market where you've got vendors and and street activities along Taylor You've got the mural wall that has been preserved and behind that is kind of the flex line with the pavilion Uh and then the pickle ball and tennis courts off in the distance But that gives you a flare of the potential activities and overall development uh at its ultimate build out however you may phase that for improvements It's all just flip through a couple of these uh you have those in your packet or if there's another sort of conversations and again these have not changed from our pre previous recommendations Uh before How It might be viewed as night time How you capture uh lighting in that mural wall and enhance your visibility to a one A how it can become still a safe and inviting environment by lighting by making sure we think about uh activities that there's no places for people to hide and we have lighting and good eyes in public activities and and it's a safe environment We also have considered gateways at either end of Taylor This would be on the point set aside to kind of create that environment that is a a hub a place to belong a place to gathering with some kind of iconic Um portal on either side and this is not final designs These are just concept renderings To highlight those activities and how that active Main Street or the conversion of Taylor to a pedestrian street would look and feel And Then on the backside of that mirror wall where the tenant where the racquetball courts were You know that public space that could have um food beverage community art a chalk wall for activities with kids and restrooms and storage on either side to anchor that Flex lawn and the pavilion and you can see that uh zone off to the right with the pavilion there to the left which points towards the intersection of Fillmore and a one a And Then again the highlights of the pickle ball and tennis that are currently in that same configuration with the Nancy Hansen building remaining in place with some improvements and upgrades over time Uh and then some Just Fun active uh swings in other places where parents can watch their kids on playgrounds or be a part of the flex lawn and music but still be off to the edge and still enjoying the soft conversation And then some of those areas underneath the existing tree canopy that can be just very vibrant for eating and and some other activities Th This is the detailed approach and now we're gonna get into a lot of the engineering analysis that at the end of our recommendations The civic hub We Evaluated All of opportunities to create a regional stormwater facility And We said If We aggregate all of these pink and red and blue and purple areas we basically have somewhere between 100,000 of underground storage area now some of the purple area includes the sections of Fillmore and poinsettia to our east but that is to evaluate one We Wanna make sure that we have enough storm water for our civic hub Improvements within the site and that's about 20,000 cubic feet of area is where we would um target those areas and it would probably be either in The the red zones or this purple area here between the street and Fillmore and I'll tell you that's the final Uh our preference especially if you agree with us when we get to the very end about which Presidential Street should be first Or thinking that it's Fillmore and its connector of Poinsett for multiple different reasons Then We'll get to that point as well But That's why we think that area Good Good point to pause and ask for questions Thank you Um I feel like it is I I can send this final presentation um to the city clerk and she can Very To make sure This is basically the same slide in presentation that we showed as you can see it says Stormwater A or option a Uh that is the same thing that we presented Um At the LA I for when we presented the final civic hub presentation whenever that was Last year I believe it was what November Last year Maybe further Late summer and table But in three columns East Correct correct That's the way the pervious papers can interact and get that surface storm water to those basins below Calculate We don't calculate the No we We are talking about treatment volume So we're talking about How Can we store additional volume For treatment for being held within a a subsurface area that will do two different it'll it'll We'll deal with it in two ways It'll be exfiltration It'll have a rock bottom So as long as there's uh separation between the groundwater and the bottom of that basin the water will infiltrate into the ground over time Right That's the easiest way to cheapest way to deal with it Just let it get back into the ground The other way As it rises We develop a part of the entire basin so that it's hydraulically connected meaning once this fills up it pops off and then goes downstream But the more we can reduce water going downstream The less You'll have to upsize your storm water further downstream and that will be extremely key When We talk about the next couple of things because you have really big infrastructure improvements as recommended in the meat in the meat Uh especially the 54 inch pipe that crosses under a one A if we can reduce siphon off if we can capture enough of that storm water upstream and remove it out of that system Are Are Hooray moment will be that you don't have to do anything with that 54 inch underneath a one A and that will save you Not only time but a ton of of money and energy trying to do a project with the dot I like the DOT But I'm just saying you You don't wanna spend the money So And I'll Get to those points uh here as part of the presentation on the feasibility Their sport Color areas The summary totals of I I'd have to verify actual I think the total available treatment volume Um 98% Sure Um Yeah Um we can give you a solid answer but I'm pretty sure it's all treatment areas but it does not total up the pervious Paver area It's just the treatment volume because that's where the exfiltration wherever you see exfiltration so that's the red the pink and the purple OK Oh for additional So No I understand you whether Or I believe the 62,000 Yes it is a Is a I'll get that I We can we can if it is true that West is 40,000 And if it's true that east is 22,000 when we add those together that does total out pretty close Um what I'm questioning our own graphic on Is Is there a interim uh optionality that we were evaluating that was part of East and West and we just reduced it to 62,000 Because at one time and I've got a slide on the next one That is part of our overall presentation at one time we had it upwards of 100,000 So Uh so um I'm I'm questioning whether that purple would be some additional amounts that would take it About that same level So Uh may maybe that graphic didn't get updated for this presentation in those columns are there The The Big takeaway is that We only need 20,000 QB fee storage for our project the civic hub and we probably have an additional 60 to 80,000 based on the math and make sure on the correction of that math To use for other areas And That's where we left the civic hub and we said we think We can hydraulically connect We can take flooding areas that occur on Fillmore and orange Fillmore and poinsettia other areas in connected convey that water down to the where the storage is at the civic hub We thought it was a concept But the subordinate task and feasibility analysis was our take home homework to come back and say Will it work What we found out was We can make it work But We need to Just the inlets at those areas to adjust those inlets Required some more reconstruction Um I'm probably getting way ahead of myself on the presentation too but I'll go ahead and kind of talk about through this as well So You have vitrified clay in your sanitary sewer lines You have sanitary sewer that runs down Taylor If you open that street It's gonna make sense to uh replace that or figure out a way to get your sanitary from Nancy Hansen to other locations And if you do a new um A restroom inside the civic hub You're you're gonna still have to connect somewhere so it would make sense to do that the same for Fillmore If We're going to modify those structures in Fillmore and the intersections of poinsettia Orange and Ridgewood So that we can connect them Uh two the volume where the volume is and remove that much storm water out of the center Street basin which is causing downstream issues as well because it makes you have do a bigger pipe downstream So if we can siphon off A little bit of that then that would benefit us in the long term in long range So when we look at and that's the entire punch line here is we're leading up to why we're suggesting Fillmore as your first demonstration project for the residential streets because of the feasibility analysis we did and it and it pointed to that and I think I can kind of go right into what that is Here's that summary um of why it included 100,000 cubic feet and that includes the adjacent roads So that is the Purple area Uh so that's where uh you can see that that preliminary analysis the 100,000 give it so that Uh Mary You're you're identifying the 6162 number 62,000 on the graphic uh overall including the adjacent roads we've got about 100,000 around the civic hub So that purple area may be that additional 40,000 that I didn't think that graphic maybe got updated but we can certainly uh verify that And again We only need 20,000 cubic feet uh for the civic hubs own storm water So It is a holistic approach It is the creation of a place to belong a wonderful place that could be phased in over time It is the foundation of the storm water at the center of our basin Uh and we can hydraulically connect flooding areas to the civic hub It will require to replace that vitrified clay But It is probably uh what we call in influence and infiltration and I and I so you probably have cracks in that Clay pipe You either Get groundwater or you get storm water that gets sent directly to your treatment facilities And so you're paying to process clean water groundwater or storm water So that is a treatment cost that is probably an unforeseen condition of what happens in these older municipal uh infrastructure And so you should see you know treatment costs go down as you start to repair this infrastructure over time So that led us to that question of well which Presidential Street is the first demonstration project as we are evaluating The feasibility of Fillmore And so we Again We stepped back and said OK well let's look at the overall vision plan where we we're tasked with looking at the feasibility of of why Fillmore or is it Fillmore Or Can We connect Fillmore hydraulically And as we were doing that we felt like we needed to step back And look ho uh All right Somebody's got to give me a different word but comprehensively Google it while we're you know waiting here but we look at all of the streets in this area I'll dumb it down a little bit Um To see what the me and hunt study Where were the streets that had flooding issues What were their studies or recommending an as they recommend these tier one or Project one Project two Project three The first three projects that they were recommending were street improvements and San and Storm line upsizing You can see by the different colors This is a direct snip out of the me and hut study Uh what the city has proceeded forward with is the pump station that includes a Valve So that you don't have storm water surcharging and backing in into your system so that during high incidence events during high storm water events you're not surcharging that already full lines and therefore having worse flooding in this center Street basin So as we looked at that study as we continue to do our analysis uh it led us to review this entire subbasin and and we pulled some of their engineering We even got their electronic models of the basin and uh we feel like as you Analyze What That Pump station once it gets online Let's do a little bit of analysis to see how well it is helping your overall system And wait on some of these bigger improvements to the south Typically That would not be a a normal procedure that we would evaluate You typically wanna go From the bottom of the base and the the the outfall of the basin and work your way so you don't work into infrastructure that you leave out you do You don't wanna make an improvement When then suddenly you've got to replace the infrastructure That makes no sense You're spending you know good money or wasting good money that you've already spent So you want to do a road You don't wanna do a sidewalk improvement You want to treat improvement when you have poor infrastructure or infrastructure that may need to get upsized But We feel like Fillmore is at the top or the middle of this this basin area where they were making recommendations and therefore can we take some of that storm water and increase our capacity to to not send it downstream to do exfiltration and tie it to the civic hub And again I sold the Golden ticket The Big Hooray Moment is if we can Kick that 57 inch underneath a one A or or not ever have to do That improvement And We'll be able to tell after the storm water pump is in After maybe that first demonstration project is done And if you do well I mean Okay and then we can start to work through the next two or three demonstration projects or next streets that you do so that kind of led us to why Fillmore Avenue It kind of answers the bell on a lot of the different things that we've been talking back all the way through the master plan It answers the stormwater improvements It's both exfiltration It's using rain garden It's using low impact elements to increase your opportunities You saw how you were able to get a grant for even the storm water Uh the bios swell project at the Veterans Park that's becomes a really huge aesthetic element as well as uh playing a key cog in your storm Water Uh enhancements you'll be able to replace that vitrified Clay Uh not only is it brittle but it it Whenever you open the street and you start to do stormwater improvements around it We've seen that it it it just collapsed and it's very hard to do so It requires that that improvement at that time and uh you're about right for another You know 25 to 50 year Infrastructure improvement uh that you should be good for and it provides a shared youth path for interconnectivity So This is our recommendation W We would say the feasibility analysis that was a subordinate task to civic hub led us to our staff even asking us well What Do you think as a part of this presidential streets Um we We believe Fillmore is the answer to that question And here's what Fillmore Uh would look like if you look at the Civic C on the left starting at a one A This is Fillmore the sha the uh cross hatched areas are where we would have underground exfiltration The blue areas are where we would have rain gardens or a tree Well Um the green areas are sod or landscape zones The shared use path you can see It's somewhat uh highlighted and labeled there but it has a AAA slight uh buff color tint to it where that could be an 8 to 10 Ft Shared youth path uh that ran along Fillmore and as it got to orange or to Ridgewood we could use an intersection improvement A A um a table Inter And potentially cross over that entire street at an angle and and go all the way to the beach end as well And Here's what That typical cross section Would look like the typical cross section is just that It's a A cross section basically at the point between points Setta and org somewhere along that line and you're basically looking East standing maybe at at uh fill Moren point set looking East So The area underground would be more exfiltration trench underneath there Uh we would tie hydraulically the new storm water system to not only that exfiltration but to the exfiltration that would be at the civic hub We'd create AAA rain garden very but a very linear one that would look very similar to the bios The ver that you currently have almost in completion there at bets Park and then we would also look at structural soil cells or another kind of treatment areas or uh based on the total budget that we have and maybe Impervious papers that would increase the rooting volume so that this tree uh has area to grow uh and and and thrive to make sure it's not you know destroying it our our infrastructure with the roots but we create zones for that to to be um to be located And then again we're just showing where the the electric lines of potable lines and and where the reclaim uh the reconstructed sanitary sewer on Left and right We have examples of Of rain gardens or what we're proposing And these linear rain gardens and on the right is a is a is that's actually a storm trap system if you remember last time we were here we brought a sample little model of that that exploded up here and we had to pick up the pieces there That's the kind system that we're proposing The reason we're saying a concrete one and storm trap Is because we can put it very low to the surface of the road up to 8 to 12 inches Uh so you can drive on top of it It's concrete It also has an open bottom Uh so that if we have Uh low enough Uh Uh groundwater Then We can still get exfiltration from that trench and that entire vault can only be 18 to 2 ft And so it'll still give us enough capacity to use it to put it underneath the road tied it in and again overall connected to these areas And uh that said You ought to look at Fillmore Uh It's the Central East West Street of the Center Street Storm Water Basin We Think that's gonna give us some benefit by taking storm water and not taking all that storm water all the way down to Buchanan and then out Center Street We can hydraulically connect it at the highest incidence of flooding where some of the worst flooding is especially at Orange and Fillmore And it's central to the city's redevelopment activities We've seen it tied to the civic hub and what you're doing at Vets Park the City Hall complex and that'll be a good demonstration project that is partnership with all of the other improvements you get added benefit of a shared use path for interconnectivity And Uh it's just consistent as we've loaded in the master plan It was a tier one improvement in recommendation by the Mead and Hunt study as well Uh and it could potentially reduce that overall storm wave stormwater basin improvements downstream and I said the biggest note or the biggest hooray the biggest win out of this is if we don't have to do some of those recommendations where you've got big pipe and total reconstruction of the roads downstream So there I made it all the way I think Thank you counsel of no questions I was just You sure Yes sir OK so three Really two major projects we've been talking about and the uh the Fillmore Um addition first I Wanna Thank You Uh and Kimberly Horn and city staff for uh putting together Uh this analysis I've went through it Uh I'd like to to go through it again And as you said it is resurfacing some of those older documents from the um Vision Plan or the uh presidential streets and the surveys and I have appreciated this approach Uh so counsel if we have any questions um and or city manager if you want to bring it back to you How about that I I I'm so grateful for this presentation tonight because for staff this has been like four separate projects We've been working on and getting results back at different times And when we all got together in the One day We were we were on a zoom call with you Scott and your team we said Hey This just makes sense to present it all at one time and see how and II I think you've done a really good job of showing how everything can work together for um I know it's not the word you wanna use Let's use cohesive system Yeah I was looking for that word earlier But no I think this is a good way for council to take in this information the higher view higher level view of it conceptually that now as we go forward and in budget making we're thinking about how what do we want to program in each budget year And how we wanna prioritize our our funding It's good to have this in in your mind the back of your mind about how this all works We don't have to make any decisions on that tonight Of course but having this as background at the beginning of our budget season I think is very very helpful so that that's why it was done that way Pulled together this nicely Thank you Agreed And as we're Few of those slides I There was some other ones I saw um The packet Maybe They're buried in here I think getting some of the the numbers together or from the sides is really helpful Um And so you got all the way through here to the recommendations That we can as our city manager said Consider as we are making financial decisions and I really like that Um I do have a few just Technical questions the clay pipes it says useful life What are what is the remaining estimated useful life of those older Uh Those older pipes Uh We Have it done any studies that you the city could probably do some TV or some smoke testing and seeing how bad it is Maybe It's not bad Maybe you have it done Redevelopment Maybe There's not a building that's been you know done and there there's vibration and other things that have not impacted those place so it's hard to tell They're they're typically You know 30 The 40 year improvements at best but you've got older And that probably Clay Did you find what year they were installed in your analysis there identified I wanted to say in the sixties but I don't remember I know that they were slip lined in the early two thousands because we didn't want to replace them then But so so again That's a one step that's a That's an improvement project based on probably some TV or some Um Smoke testing or some other things that were done so even at 2000 there's still now 24 years Yeah and those are wastewater sewer pipe You talked about the water flowing into the pipes which puts a burden on the treatment Process and thank you for explaining that is there Isn't there a risk of it going the other way where the wastewater comes out of the pipes if the pipes have cracks doesn't Certainly it was the water and rain your sanitary in that area is a gravity fed system OK so you know some of that inflow comes in from gravity Areas So That's Where the cracks Yes There could be some effluent escaping off other cracks But There's also cracks at areas where you've got lines coming in from buildings and therefore groundwater or storm water gets into those cracks and then feeds and surcharges your system as well So It's hard to tell without looking at everything if it's already been in lined then maybe it's not Is bad but I I don't really know We just know that um It It would need to it would need to be evaluated and And if you're looking at doing major redevelopment um Even though it's been 24 years since they've been slip lined uh trying to work in and around those could be evaluated but I would suggest that we video it We smoke Jack and make sure that we aren't Um Doing that investment while you had the tree open Did we complete the wastewater videoing the state statute required Or was it stormwater I know I think we have to do both Tim What was the portion that was stormwater was done right The inlets the inverts elevations Can can you can you Can you come up Tim Thank you So We have the video as he's coming up of the storm Water completed I'll let him answer it Thank you As on okay We Got the uh stormwater section done but the what You're talking about What you're speaking about is the wastewater section Um the first phase of that project was getting the whole system GIS Um and then the second phase which they haven't passed That hasn't gone through Um I don't think it's been voted on yet through the House or the Senate But yeah there's there It's a bigger project of where they're they might end up making cities smoke line or smoke test the whole entire system throughout the city each city So there is a a bigger S sanction or a bigger section of those projects Sure Thank you Well being that that's a bill or we we that that has not been mandated yet however the GIs phase one portion tagging it Geo tagging Yes that section jumped out at me I appreciated uh addressing it in in the in the report and Yes mayor PE Tim Callum Um I have a question Can we go back to the slide that shows the road and the share pathway and Sectional view I think she meet Yeah This Um I I Just Wanna understand Um you said that the roads are 24 Feet wide and we need 20 Um for fire and safety and all that On the most of the streets in the presidential streets There's lots of driveways parking lots and Will we be taking Um People's properties to no No what we've shown again Um We've and we've reviewed this without survey We're looking at GIS We're we're taking clues from looking at the street where the right of way is where the right of way would be at the back of sidewalk at power lines at What's typical for a prescribed right away in those areas So we We think we're close but we're not survey data close right We think we know about where it is And If You Look at this plan view If I could even zoom in Maybe Uh to one section Um And This is where Matt Did a lot of this Uh a analysis just so that we could evaluate where is the best place to put a shared use path Well We have consistent driveways on one side and we have an entire parking lot that accesses the right of way for parking on the other side right So let's not do the shared path on that side Let's do the shared path on the civic hub side We can connect to that side We only have driveways between poinsettia and orange And Then as you can see when we went down if I can Scroll down off my picture instead of the screen like I'm supposed to Maybe that shared use path goes to the other side because the north side of feel more between Orange and Ridgewood is an entire parking area that backs out And Now How do you adjust And Are you on private property and are you so what we've shown here is a way to snake through that cross section Maybe It flips through this entire street And We think that we could do that Because probably back in um 2015 We looked at some other cross sections for Polk at the time we were trying to figure out what Polk was gonna look like as we are coming online with the new city all complex and some other things So again We have some anecdotal information We also did a a study on a pedestrian bike mobility that we are looking at where we can do some connected area So This is informed by some other studies that we've done and some work that Matt and our team has done just evaluating Driving the street via you know Google Street view and see how we can stay within private property I Mean off private Sorry off private Let's be clear It's the medicine talk Thank you Yes Council member Jackson Um I'm new at this Scott So I'm trying to wrap my hand around all of it and And Grab into this So I have a question for you and I know you had said this earlier so I wanted to get Your information on it to see if you can give me T technical information on it Uh this is in the Civic And the Center Street Basin Storm feasibility analysis And in that summary at the last of it it says that the report is seems the existing condition is shown Uh within this uh stormwater report for Center Street Basin are consistent with current conditions and doesn't take into consideration our new projects which we of course have the title valve and the rain garden So mainly the title valve because that's really the rain garden is upstream of that OK So How Are we making and and this is just me wanting to know how you all determine this How Do you determine what we need If we don't know what the impact of the title valve yet Because I'm really excited for this I'm wanting it to be in like right H storm season so we can see it in action You know exactly what you're asking That's the That's the right spot on question uh as well and that's what we've been saying with staff and that's why they I I think uh strategically said Let's do that one first Let's monitor it And then We'll be able to see at the top of the basin How much storm water Do We need to pull out of the system Our thinking is well The more the better because it will decrease this the the improvements that we need to do like we're showing on the screen which is at the bottom end of the basin The the downstream side of the basin down towards Buchanan and Center Street So that's the exact question to be thinking about We need to evaluate and see what it does and we will run those models before we do The improvements can be a part of the improvement so that uh Um the city manager says you know let's evaluate the storm water at civic hub where we would like to Not only see how much is feasible Engineering feasible But before we do the Fillmore we'd we'd like to have some analysis so that we can rerun those Uh analysis Well that that's my thing that I'm having trying to come to terms with is how would how would an engineer know what's needed under the civic hub or down Fillmore without knowing the results of the title valve and my other quote And along with that I've been down there when it floods And so and I know that center street is at the lowest point In the basin But We're looking at up I mean Is filled more a little bit You know how the Yeah um a little bit central to the center Street Basin right It's about midpoint And A lot of that storm water flows north to south If We can intercept it at Fillmore and we can divert it and we can take it to a storage area that we don't send it downstream That's a benefit Uh to the rest of the system downstream and then our storm bow and or tidal valve which remember I'm trying to get my hands a around everything is that being installed at the S at the end of Central Center Center Thank you center OK so it's actually on a different street So This film more would be gathering Um Potential storm water That would not be down Center Street all all of your connections Our north to south You See this is Fillmore Can You See my cursor Yes So all of that storm water that flows down center Street it these areas I don't I don't have a basin analysis on this But a lot of these rooftops say waterfalls on these rooftops It goes to the street It flows down the street goes in this inlet is tied to this storm water and it flows downstream Eventually It all goes out that same direction So the more that Can take out of this system and send it downstream the better off and the least and a lesser degree of increased storm water As you see in these orange red and yellow lines that were part of the recommendation OK and the I have reasons I'm asking this because I've been here during one storm That was it was huge Flood um and flooded you know almost from 528 or 520 To right in front of Canaveral Sands on Ridgewood and there were sections of a one a that flooded However That's The Only time I as a as a resident have seen it up on a one a flooded like that Have there been Other occurrences Or was that a one time thing does anyone know I'm just curious about this because it's really rather hard to to judge How much flood water we're dealing with here You know and ensure that we're looking at maximizing the drainage I don't know where that exact location is that you give me a cross street but I don't have any anecdotal information on it's almost up to Central but not quite Um but I've but it would it when it flooded It flooded down towards the you know on Ridgewood but there was also flooding on a one A and I mean flooding where a car was in a Culver and then tail lots were pointing like a sinkhole Yeah Remember that and so the Radisson property exactly right there by by Zary And So for me I wanna you know I Wanna make sure I understand where we're putting them And What estimations we had and And what were you trying to anticipate You know as you mentioned in your materials you're mentioning 100 year floods You know which which flood top Are we looking at Because There are 100 year floods and 50 year floods and that sort of thing when the next one's coming and we don't know when their next one's coming and we can't determine storm surge and we don't know what the title valve does yet so I can't wait for the title out because that and I think even though as you look at the the smart rain Garden I think as a detention point run off as a huge thing But I haven't seen big flooding in that area Now It may be closer to the ocean that it's done that because I've seen it down there you know literally Um but I'm I'm unsure of you know that and how and what kind of impact the title valve will have in Don You may know more Nope no more No I mean you You've answered You've asked the right questions and one of the things that you asked early on How do we know how much storm water at the civic hub Well civic hub as an independent project right if you just look at how much existing today impervious area how much will exist uh proposed impervious area and we'll run models based on what is required by the water management district That's what Matt does all day long and leading And so we know about what the requirements and that's how we got to the 20,000 cubic feet of area that we would need to treat its own storm water and that's why we now have an additional We can Generally that same thing within this basin Uh so as a part of a uh the maybe the first phase of that study and we do this as a part of our resiliency Uh planning studies we can take lidar information which is survey but it's not exact We can evaluate that lidar We can project through the series of storms We can either get that data from NOAA We can get that data from other regional planning councils We're working with the regional plans Planning Council and other jurisdictions that were provided that Or We can run it ourselves and and take those storms through there through a program whether it's I CPR like we have your models or we can do some other models I'm doing the talking I should let him talk but Um he's here to to basically say what you meant to say Scott was this is it 100 You're your technical person Yes Uh he um and so He will run those storms and to show all right if if this is uh not backed up storm at this storm water pipes are not filled How much capacity so you can almost simulate what that title valve is doing based on your model If you want to come up it speaking to them We have folks listening and recording Thank you very much So the title valve Oh Matthew Wanzer Kelly horn with Scott Um I Think you just wanted to stop talking for a little bit Um so a title valve is gonna keep water from backing up into the system but it doesn't solve the capacity issue So these pipes were put in a long time ago There's been a lot of construction since then Extra impervious area producing more runoff going into these pipes So our goal with capturing storm water is we're gonna Take We're gonna add additional capacity to the pipes downstream by removing storm stormwater upstream which then increases capacity For other areas to then flow into those pipes is kind of what we're talking about So The previous study that was done was looking at it From a previous condition We wanted the rerun that model from the existing condition and as we take pieces away and put them in these exfiltration systems Then see how that affects the pipes downstream and then potentially keep taking pieces away So We don't have to maybe make those larger improvements later on OK So in that case you would be removing some of the clay pipe Is that correct Uh that would be for the sanitary OK the sanitary OK because I know all of our infrastructure is pretty old here You're gonna rip up the street Let's go ahead and you know let's not have to rip it up again in 510 years if you're making 25 and 50 year improvements to your streets be holistic You Don't wanna leave something that only has a 510 year life expectancy and and that makes sense to me It does because we need to do to make sure our infrastructure Newer you know you cannot ignore cheaper time to do it than when you've got it all open right And That's the truth So OK I'm just still confused How we know About that storage But That's fine Thank you OK I'm sorry No No No I think it's it's we are Approaching the budget We will make investments Uh Whatever I think the priorities are and we'll talk through that when it comes to flooding I think we have more information than we did to help make uh some decisions But I'm with you on you know getting down to what staff and our engineers recommend Um With the modeling of different options and whether or not we should pursue that Uh That data So thank you and we can circle back Are there Any other questions Uh council member Jackson I would just like a copy of the presentation Since We're missing some of the appendices in here That will help me I I mean Um As I said I'm going The in the uh feasibility analysis is a 10 page memo plus or minus and then overall it's about 100 pages of additional documents and that I don't know if that was It's Is that what you're talking about You're talking about the feasibility or are you talking about the presentation We did tonight your presentation your presentation with it We saw slides and data that we did not have I can't find in the packet that I think we wanna see what you think is valuable And Then There's a lot of things in the appendix that it says what it is but it's not there for us So appendix J gives maps and location all this There's nothing there but we might have that in a prior report Mayor if I could Yes all right um I just want to speak on some of the things that you were speaking on Uh council member Jackson um up where you were talking about the flooding on a one A that's in a different basin So What What Kimberly Horne has done is only the center Street Basin on top of me Hunt study for that center street pump station Um so when it when it goes up north that's a totally different basin Um and a lot of that actually that that flooded was F DOT owned state road Uh so unfortunately the state needs to fix the corridors on their side Um but the center street basin uh you were correct the the title valve What I'm hoping to achieve with this system is to be able to pump the system out before Storm clean all the water out of the pipes Turn it off which will then create more capacity in the pipes Because as we know if you have pipes here in your rivers here that means you're gonna have water filling the pipes all the way And I've seen it all the way up to the 300 block where it's sitting water So if we can go ahead and pump that whole system out that creates more volume for more rainwater to go in there and then the pump will act as a backup saying Hey All right We're starting to fill up Let's flush it out And it won't let it come back in So We're a pretty um We're excited for the soul pump station I'll tell you that Um And I think that when Kelly Horne did their uh study for now since the elevations were difficult to work off of on the presidential streets on getting it Of course we all know water doesn't go uphill Um and it's like you had mentioned it's in a pretty old system so we would literally have to revamp Whole system to get it to go down towards the the uh Civic Hub Center Uh but but what we had looked at also was on site storage Kind of like what we did here at City Hall We have all these underground chambers at City Hall and we were like Well Hey guess what if we can at least get all that water in the civic hub area and underground chambers on site that will leave you that much less water going through that whole system and the same thing with the rain garden I know we just have one curb cut but that's less water going through that whole system which could You know relieve the system So I think during the the mean Hunt study they had mentioned try to find other areas that you could possibly look to relieve the whole system That's where the rain garden came in and then we're looking for little little niches here and cranny here and stuff and I I appreciate your information on that because there are other areas of the city that have some standing water issues Yes you're right And so we wanna make sure you know I don't wanna over Engineer one section of the city while while ignoring another That's not an issue so and it's very hard to determine so now that you said that he's actually fun questions How Do you monitor how well this is working While It's in action so we don't tell me how much water is down there right now How Do you know that Can I just want to comment to that in my head is we have the data from the three acute events over the past 3 to 4 years that triggered a lot of this We have the photos We have the uh rain gauge meter reports We had some uh reports that were provided by city staff The uh rain incident reports our city manager and and team worked and provided While I would not hope that that event happens again There is a side of me Hoping to see something close to it to see how it performs But we have not had an event really comparable to that Fortunately since then So truly that's for me in my head and I think we've talked about that city staff but so truly performance is determined based on a a massive rain event if if I may add to just hypothetically thinking to answer a little bit of that question Um we know what size pipes are in the basin All the way down We know existing if we theoretically Remove all the water We know how much volume can be held within the system So We can model that and show you and run A typical project would be a 10 Year Storm Well How much does that Go into the system And will it be within the entire system so we could model and those are quick and analysis You can model 1020 or whatever storm analysis to see where that Entire volume And Then we could start adding in You know exfiltration in Fillmore additional 60 to 80 ft in civic hub and and then add to that volume And so that would be very And so easy analysis to identify and that's the type of thing I I would love to see Because as I'm saying I Wanna make sure we're not over Engineering one spot where it'll never have a drop of rain on the street again while another area of the city might be suffering So Um for me I love modeling I love things like that I would love to see that with the various storms so that we can kind of understand the performance because truly Till you have the rain event You don't have a way to monitor it Well We can certainly evaluate that uh in the systems Uh there's also a level of improvement The dot has to do certain levels of You improvements for the 56 inch pipe Are you saying when they redevelop that Gave it a shot I have no idea what he's gonna say trying to help trying to see where we were going there Um so the DOC has different there's different levels of design So essentially what Scott's been referring to is an HGL Cal That's Your Hydraulic gradient line So You design a parking lot and you storm system That's basically saying Is water coming out of your inlet or not The Standard Storm for that is a 10 year 24 Hour Storm We you know as an engineer we can design for anything but If You want it designed for 100 Year Storm you know Well It's gonna get crazy and I'm not really wanting to design for 100 years strength but what I'm wanting to understand as someone that's looking at how we move this forward In An intelligent manner is how much how much engineering do we need to do for this How much do we need to do Versus doing a ton in this area if we had it covered and we don't really know how much we have covered until we get that title valve installed and get it a rain event So any kind of modeling to me would help doesn't necessarily have to be 1000 Year storm the apocalypse or whatever it just we just need to kind of I need to kind of have an idea of making sure we're not over Engineering The The DOT will require certain Modeling to be done because they have lower thresholds of flooding right They can't have inlets where they get backed up and cars and safety and you know there There's certain other factors These are local streets We have a little bit more flexibility We do have permitting requirements that we have to adhere to Um But We Gotta be careful about No Flood that the term no flooding or I saw that pond there or that puddle there or that You know slight area around but it was only there for 30 minutes or an hour or whatever but it's not backing up into making sure that it's It's not backing into someone's resident and causing a private property damage So there's gonna be some levels of those and we can run some analysis in the overall basin at the storm events that Matt was talking like we don't need to say we're gonna You know not have any flooding or not have any ponding We Gotta Be careful about those terminology because if we We could do it but you wouldn't want to pay the Infrastructure cost to upsize all of that To make sure you didn't do anything Absolutely It would help me with with Looking forward at the Civic Hub project It would help me with that Acceptable levels acceptable levels We We Wanna keep the the water out of people's house But if we get to a point where that's accomplished then there are other areas of the city We need to look at that for those other areas as well So That's what My point More or Less is Just Oh I'm Sorry just about Kimberley horn up I think and they have been discussing that with us on waiting to see what the pump can do before they go too far in Um so that's kind of like what you're saying right now and that's exactly what we're doing Let me know when it goes in I'm gonna be over there in my yellow slicker in my rainbow All right Will Do I'm so excited about that title OK Thank you all and Tim Was there Anything else I know that kind of went around you were Making the points Earlier about And Then she asked how we're going to monitor and I jumped in there That's Yeah We have multiple rain gauges throughout the whole city You know as you know sometimes in Florida it can rain in your front yard and not in your backyard So we put up multiple rain gauges but that's how we kind of monitor You know the rain and how much we're getting I think that's what you were saying right Oh Yes One way maybe a poor man's way compared to what we're doing with the modeling counts Uh keep going Mayotte Council Yes Probably for Tim When we built City Hall We built underground Storage for water Um and they were saying that uh for the civic hub we need 20 Uh I 40,000 cubic of story So Is there extra storage room It is City Hall in the center basin I mean Is there extra Yeah they're they're centers This is part of the Center Street Basin Correct That was my question and I don't think the city we could look back and pull the records But I don't think the city Hall built additional capacity above and beyond No It was just not built to meet code Yeah Council member Willis or council member Davis No more comments Thank you all very much for your time and and working through this presentation Like three different things into one and uh with hurricane season approaching it's relevant and I think we will keep This top of mind as we head into the budget city manager I just wanted to add a second thoughts on the request for the $150,000 in this budget This This body cannot opine on that tonight because it is AC R a expenditure We need to punt that to the next C a board meeting Understood So Uh we can no action needed here and just simply let's let's move on to the next Are there any other final comments from our friends at Emily Horne I Just wanna ask for clarification This is the final conceptual drawing for the civic hub deliverable tonight OK because we can close that we can check off that box if that's been the final drawing in those renderings are part of that final deliverable and just one question on the civic hub If We could go to one of those sketches I wanted to clarify you were talking about Pickle ball and tennis in the configuration Um I see what looks like six pickle ball and two tennis courts right there That's not the current Footprint The correct Footprint has where the six pickle balls are There's another tennis court to the West Of that so this concept and correct me if I'm wrong Molly this is taking one tennis court out to do this concept That's correct It's about actually about a half a tennis court But Yes but in total quantity because we can do the 10 You can do one pickle ball on one half of the tennis court But when you do six together you can smush them together and get more pickle But Yes We did lose 11 tennis court So I Just wanna clarify I wasn't sure if you said that we're keeping the same footprint and you might have said that you might not have I just want to clarify that for the record Yes sir Thank you Thank you any final comments Kimberly Horn Thank you Good For Uh called and coughing and and other things I Hope you holistically feel well I had a note that nice I I told you even a even a cold isn't gonna copy from be uh stop me from being brief so I tried to be brief but yeah Thank you Well I believe that will uh conclude item number three Um Council Set eight o'clock about a 10 minute recess That sound good We'll try to reconvene around 815 Yes Uh two too fast Then We had to get Jonathan to the airport and uh Dylan had to leave to go back to North Carolina So Yeah Yeah he drove Oh It was told to surprise Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah She uh He didn't have a clue Oh she didn't He was funny Yeah But are you ready I Give it 30 more seconds Take 15 I did say that Yes Okay All righty It is 8:15 P.m. We are reconvening I called the meeting back to order We are in a regular city council meeting And We just completed the item for action the presentation and we are now on to items for discussion Which is first ones Item number four Uh guidelines for advisory Board member selection submitted by council member Willis Council member Willis floor yours here I've got a hand out a few Take one and pass it down please Well Mr mayor City Council Um at the last council meeting you had brought up um Some concerns about the vacancies and how we standardize our Procedures for those filling those vacancies Then That is the the reason for the Item here I wanted to discuss The Guidelines for selection of board members Advisory board members and whether or not we need to queue up applicants Um with concern and interest in filling advisory board vacancies from a sufficient pool of applicants It appears that efforts should be made to be consistent in the interview and selection process In the past vacancies have been filled from a pool of applicants Often that pool consists of an equal number of applicants to the available vacancies or not enough applicants in relation to the current number of vacancies and in order to be equitable fair and justified in selections It appears that Pool of applicants to be considered should be greater than the number of vacancies on that advisory board Continued efforts should be made for that specific advisory board to advertise vacancies as well as advertise the interview process and listing those individuals seeking to feel said vacancies The public should have the opportunity to address the applicants consideration at those board meetings prior to recommendation to City Council And Every effort should be made to be respectful of the applicant Their willingness to volunteer their time and adhere to a higher standard of decorum What I want to know is Are we asking Based upon the last council meeting to interview all applicants Or remove the advisory board from specifying a preference and recommendation Um I think we need to either Continue on as we have in the past where when a applicant applies and the board sends a recommendation we either act on that recommendation with an up or down vote Or we allow them to queue up A number of applicants So that they can choose and recommend however many they want but we need to have some sort of process And I've handed out A blank copy of the application And also A roster of all the boards Who was on there What vacancies There are And just wanted to get everybody's ideas on where they think what they think Uh And where we should go with this because we we need and we've had comment earlier tonight about moving the goal posts Um I think uh before we consider anybody else we need to be sure Of what the criteria is or should be And how many were willing to Uh queue up if any at all or let the boards decide what they want to do Thank you Council member Willis for explaining this item Um I think if we followed along in the agenda summary before us here Uh that would be helpful for me in this specific The way I think you've simplified it is we have the way we do it today Um And Then we We have the the opportunity to to change it And and I think you recommended a process the the process that we follow today I My My question would be What What are we following is uh I know our charter and code talks about advisory boards Maybe our city attorney can help Uh Because I think this application that you provided Is largely a Tool to administer the existing code in state law I would imagine Um And I read I mean reading through some of this This is This is from our code in in charter says City attorney But If If You would when we Our procedures today You talk a little bit about Where Were they what we follow and and Whether this application Mirrors that or goes above and beyond that Um Uh many years ago the City Council adopted a uniform board Uh ordinance That's IN 2-1 71 of the um City code and it lays out some of the You know the general Um You know categories of um you know requirements for the board how they conduct their meetings but also contains a provision regarding the appointment and removal of board members And there's a You know there are the council at that time determined that there would be certain eligibility requirements and the application Uh primarily is for for purposes of meeting the application requirements in the code and for determining eligibility For example Um there are eligibility requirements for being a registered voter resident and or business owner Um and it's all spelled out in that section of the code You know the there There is no language in the code that addresses um other than there is a language in the code that of course the council is the um board that must must um make the appointment to to the city boards by majority vote And Um How The pool of applicants is is obtained Um you know that level of minutia is not in in the in the current Uniform Board ordinance Seems to be more of an operational issue I'm sure the clerk might be able to Um but since she's the clerk is the one that does the intake for the applications You know how they go about operational You know getting a getting candidates to um for the for the boards and the council to consider The 2171 Yes sir Thank you that That was um and is this form today Uh it I It helps us comply with that I mean That's your point is to get that information There's certain things that if we don't you know we wanted to remove or change right We can't because we're bound by it What the governing policy city clerk I don't know if you wanted to and there's also a statutory requirement and you'll see on the second page that state reporting requirement that's been in the Florida statues for quite some time So Um that's why that request is made Where is that uh page two page two I see back of the handout says state reporting requirements You know Of course the interest and experience I mean that's based on uh in the boards that you would like to apply for that is You know based on the the number of boards that the council is authorized and I mean it It's mirroring uh the code And getting you know information that can be reviewed for you know verification with requirements and The candidates what the candidates interests are on the On serving on a board et cetera And So in that section Um 2171 E Appointment and removal of members says all person shall be appointed to and removed from city boards and committees by majority vote of the council and by resolution Unless otherwise providing this section boarding committee members shall serve at the pleasure of the City Council and maybe summarily removed at any time with or without cause Um a border committee appointment shall not be construed as creating or concerning or conferring upon any person Any writer interest in serving on a board or committee including but no to Contract Liberty property invested right And So There's Is there anything other than this My last question governing how we make the decisions that To me it seems Pretty With the council criteria that we would apply is is at our pleasure It It's at the City Council's pleasure however keep in mind There are requirements to S for eligibility that a person must meet So Um if you look at the sub sub subparagraph C of that section I reference it says any person nominated elected or appointed to serve on the board of Committee of the city Shelf Satisfy the following requirements um got complete the board application as prescribed by the council consent to stand a criminal background check Be a resident and registered voter or business owner as defined in this section of the code unless the council you know waves that requirement and there's a you know some language about how to wave and have never been convicted or found guilty regardless of adjudication of a felony unless the civil rights have been restored um and then complete interviews with the board or committee on which the person is seeking appointment And with the City Council And there's some limitations on the number of non-residents serving on boards and committees too that the council established Quite some time ago So When We review the application By them completing it Uh that's fulfilling some of the things we We are required to follow That information is then Uh what it's met It doesn't end there if they qualify and they meet all that criteria They're still a a component where the council just because you've met all the criteria Ah W We're not required to appoint someone They're subject to an interview We The answers to those questions And in in Some cases recently where we've served incapacity there's in there's internal knowledge uh about to where some candidates were meeting for the first time Um thank you that that was That was what I wanted to understand Was council's discretion mayor OK You know it's like You know someone applying for a job You know they interview with their employer doesn't mean they're going to get the job I like the idea Council member Willis just to go Uh with having a pool Uh the uh of applicants I Really do I think The the last uh Applicant Uh Former Council member Raymond who applied That position Was has that board has been operating with six members I think for over a year If I Remember It was a long time and I did not Know that And so They should be operating with with seven and so On the front end Also as you wrote in your thing being able to promote and to take every effort should be made that specific Um that were advertising Um That Would really help Um and I think the process today is The burden is really On the director of that level to kind of manage the boards when when a vacancy occurs the city clerk and everyone is receiving applications and when a vacancy happens they go to their bank and if they have one it goes forward And What you're saying is is we We could consider uh Hey We want a minimum of two or three I'm I'm just merely putting it out there as an option I'm not advocating it Sure but because you don't know how long it's going to take to get an applicants like you said that uh that particular board had a vacancy for over a year Well that that is not M Raymond's fault No um That's You know if you don't get the applicants You know and they don't know when they're going to get another applicant And if you want them to operate at full capacity you have to address it as we get applicants Uh now whether whether you agree with someone being on a board that's Your own Personal option And I think at a minimum we should have at least in just on this past instance of proceeded to vote either up or down on it and uh But I think um I Think moving forward We need to let those boards handle their own business And uh But Not keep moving like someone said earlier moving the goal posts But Uh uh But if we're going to do something we need to To clarify it and codify it so that uh everybody knows now I did find out this evening before council meeting started that uh city clerks Um assistant director uh has started advertising these On the Outside on the board that they're putting it out there Of What who is uh what boards have vacancies and how many and all of that so that kind of addresses that uh Point of uh advertising but that was already done internally Mhmm I agree I mean this board I My understanding had sat empty almost two years Um and again it's not Miss Raymond's fault and I would say this about any applicant whether it was Miss Raymond or not Um they were approved by the board I've never known and I've asked And I don't know that we've ever this board has ever disapproved of anyone trying to volunteer There's applicants I didn't particularly like but I didn't let my personal opinion of them They wanted to volunteer They The board approved them I appro Them So I Don't think our personal uh you know feeling should get in it or be involved in it And again I agree We don't know when the next applicant is gonna be so if we say we want a pool are we gonna sit for two years until we get a pool You know I mean and then the next applicant had applied Um but there's a position that's gonna be coming available from my understanding So Why let that Why not let that applicant get that position in the future That applicant that I I have there The other applicant Miss Freeman I have her application It was Received march 18th the day before the the city clerk received it March 18th the day before our meeting they didn't receive it a week before as the the Ms Freeman had stated So At that point Miss Raymond had already applied She'd been approved Um she was volunteering her services Um I think we should honor the board's opinion and respect their opinion whether it's Miss Raymond or whatever applicants been in the past or gonna be here in the future That there's a no scenario that you can think of where if the board the board doesn't approve they recommend approval but if they recommend approval especially if it's a 50 I'm Not that we should Honor that there's not a circumstance where someone does not seem like they would serve at our pleasure Well depending our pleasure is that personal But Because I think that person needed to at least have a vote They deserve to have the vote And you know depending what That vote is is whether they are or not I mean I I don't think there's not a time that they can't I just don't think it's personal that because they disagree with you or have disagreed with you on the past That has nothing to do with their their services on the board Disagreed on this side of the dais Those are professional decisions And and you said that that night you did so that should not to me that Being on a board is not going to affect this dais I respectfully disagree I think it's directly We're this board takes recommendations from those boards and that's OK it it it It was uh There has never been We still have not voted against a candidate I mean and and I agree with you I'm not aware of any incident incident where we have I think that night if I go back I Remember asking and saying What do you know essentially what do we do or something to the effect and I think we were saying I think she's withdrew I asked for a vote that I did ask for a vote that I did again I did not put a motion on the table but I was saying we needed to take a vote that night I Remember feeling that uh and I'm not saying it sounds like that wasn't your position that that she had withdrew her application Um in an interview If somebody walks out of an interview I I When I've applied for for for jobs I would never walk out of an interview and think that I'm gonna get that job I Think what we saw last meeting is exactly what I'm concerned about I think this diet show disrespect to her and at the way that she was treated in some of the comments that were made I can understand Um what are those comments Because Miss Um Vice chair Miss Mary Mar Quella said that some comments were inappropriate Do You know what comments were inappropriate I think that it was your personal that she disagreed with you I Mean what I really wanna understand what the inappropriate comment was that you were personal What Did I do that What do you mean I was personal Basically said that you've been on the dais and that you've had a G I don't know the exact wording but you had agreed on certain occasions and then other times you guys had differences when you had to that personal Yes I did ok Well we mis we It was accused that she would be on there and have political Of The elections of this the the board does not involve that board does not involve elections Okay so the and I'll just finish on the on the profession Those are professional If I said I don't like the way that the the car the way they drive their car up and down my street Are there loud barking dog next door or those are personal um attacking somebody's but but literally the city of Cape Canaveral business we sat and both had were elected the same time It could not have been more professional on What The Priorities are are of the city and so Uh I Don't I never viewed that as personal and I'm not going to sit up here and say that I mean what's the point of appointing If We're supposed to take all recommendations What is our role and I think that interview is there for an opportunity to if you did have concerns and you didn't have an interview process The interview process allows us to to shed light on the issues and this candidate walked out of the interview And if I understand justified in your eyes because I made it personal in your eyes even though I respectfully disagree and the second thing Was that political statements were made I think that might have been They used Were there any other things and I Remember that general conversation Uh I Don't think that there's a uh Those were inappropriate Um I just felt like she I I don't know So if there's ever been an appropriateness I'm I'm not gonna beat around the Bush candidate has demonstrated some of that greatest levels of inappropriateness all aspects of elections being elected Two and two after becoming elected to putting things on the record And Free to do that Elected by the people But that time came to an end And That value system that I shared on those particular issues As I said that night could not have been In More contrast and so I cannot say that If I I have to draw the line somewhere In in this process and we did not vote on uh M Raymond But I will say it again if the opportunity comes unless she wants to reinterview I'm happy to go through that But the interview that we had She walked out And I'm not It sounds like tonight She made it clear that she was not withdrawing her application She wants us to take action I'm happy to take action If You wanna do that at this a particular item if it holds relevance and doesn't hurt the integrity of council member Willis's goals I'm I'm ready to get that put behind us if we want to do that Can I ask a question and as long as I've been on this dais and we've interviewed people we have never asked questions of that term We've we've always said thank Much We Appreciate your service Ta da da We have never sat there and said different and made comments about that applicant We have you know we so I've never had an applicant that needed it That But we were going by the board's recommendation and we did not ask that You know uh the questions that we could have Thank you Mayor Pro Tem Yeah I Um I usually try to watch Um the different board meetings and um what was concerning to me was when I watched the board meeting that she was interviewed And her comment I I'm not gonna say for verbatim Um but the comment that she made when she was asked Um what As a council person with your experience Could you bring to this board And she said and again not verbatim that Boards need to stay in their lane And council needs to stay in their lane and listen to what staff says And to me That's the wrong message of a board We want the board's ideas We want their input We don't want them to stay in a lane W All the There are close touch to the residents and their ideas out there and they're bringing them to the board and eventually they come to us So we don't want them to stay in their lane And That was my question to to her was Why Why Would You say that And is that the kind of attitude Nothing against Angela She's a great lady But Do We need her attitude influencing that board with that kind of attitude That was my concern And I think um You know when we get applicants you see sometimes That they applied in I'm Just using an example May and it doesn't come to us until June or July You know what is the process do we It does it hold over till the next meeting Do We do it like somebody applies and they get You know there's a board meeting and then they come to us I Just think that um You know maybe we need to figure out a definite process have more than one applicant And also at the end of the meeting she said And I asked the attorney like I gave him a note like do we make a motion and he said she withdrew she said I'm out of here I don't even want it So I mean So We took no action But That was my concern and that's why I like usually Um When You watch the interview at the board level It's usually pretty good but I was really concerned about her Her Answer to that question Excuse me and it was kind of scary the way she said You gotta stay in your lane like So That's all I have to say Thank you Let's remember Jackson Yes and I know that um the statement about it the elections That was my comment and my comment I clearly said I encourage everyone on this dais as well as everyone listening to this or in this audience go back and watch the video I clearly said I Don't feel comfortable with any Ex Council member until we get this repaired That was my statement I said that there was a perception And There was a perception in this last election and I discussed that perception So There was a perception for this So Here's the thing it any council member is not I was not signaling Angela I wasn't a This is something that we as a council need to take care of the Florida League City says it It is literally in our state statutes so in uh well and actually the con The Florida Constitution According to Article two of the Florida Constitution A Public office is a public trust and I take that seriously That citizens here elected me OK It states that the people shall have the right to secure and sustain trust against abuse I knew of a situation where people thought that perception had happened OK so I took action Preventing and avoiding conflicts of interest is extremely important for any public official So I wanted to address the situation that I had been told has happened numerous times in the past during Alleg cycles with obtaining our fraud F booths and in hopes that we could come together and take care of that first OK so in no way shape or form I've seen alleged in things I have heard someone give uh you know that this was said or that was said no Go back and watch the video I said Any councilman so that our council members so that we will not have that perception It should be an easy fix Shouldn't have gotten shouldn't have gone the way that it did shouldn't have resulted in someone running out of the room This is an easy fix We We should be able to work with city manager and city attorney to get the process fixed That's why I've added it to the gender as well So Whereas II I believe that what we're saying is correct We need to have Clear Glo clear guidelines on this We're seeing right here in our code that it is at the pleasure of counsel and I have one other question Have We had any new applicants Um Todd since this occurred last time I'll defer to the city clerk She keeps those records Go to laser And how many Number in my head Well 1210 I mean Since the day of the interview since the date of the interview And and the reason I'm asking this is it will clear if we had an increase of applicants and we didn't have this advertised that shows a deficiency in just the way that we were handling it And Mary Morrison in the last council meeting when we did the interview he discussed at length How long That term was and those things we need to make this These board positions available for our residents to be able to step up and fill Excuse me We have um 1234567 active applications in Are active folder and we had two last time So we've had Uh increase in applications and I I'd like to make clarification about how we advertise on our marquee For years since I've been here before we even had an electronic marquee We advertise that there are openings on our boards And We don't necessarily always put specific boards If It's really low then we will do that But we have consistently advertised on our marquee Um for board openings Um So did we change the way we put it up there this time city clerk we did to please the council and specifically put you know which boards or uh have openings Um but I can tell you Uh I've been here since 22,007 And It's Not Easy um getting people to apply and I've seen that before In the past Just having been before I was on council Something We don't really have control over but the thing that we are that we may have had that might have impacted that number So We have a new demographic of resonance Now They're from other areas So when we say that in the past we didn't get applicants if we're not putting them out there where people will know those new residents may not want to step up and serve Also we might have had people that have retired since the pandemic That are or that are working from home So There's been changes in our world that could have changed that situation But It's uh we obviously have A pool of people to choose from now and so I'm appreciative to to Congress or to Councilman Willis for putting this on so that we can get something solidified Um it This isn't anything personal We should be able to choose the best candidate based on their skill set That's my Are You You said earlier Are you still against Exco members being on boards Not my gender item is to talk about the Friday fest process if we can get that fixed I think that any council member should be able to serve That was my statement last month that was taken out of context And then everything blew up so I'm not gonna allow people to put words in my mouth I will not do that on video Do you understand We Ex Council members on boards now on a board now and on the dressing of problem that is a perception problem from our state constitution saying we have a public trust And if there's a perception problem that I know that someone thinks something is not right It is my duty It's my fiduciary duty to address it and I tried to do that I did not mention um Miss Raymond I said any council member and I believe that and I believe it can be fixed and we need our city Attorney sale We need to sell We need the people on this Councils help to make sure that we have this all taken care of where anyone can serve if they want And That's the way I feel about that My question in the future is are we not going to take the recommendation or listen to the recommendation of the board Is that just to the council in general does that have any effect or is that I mean We've always we've said for this board and other boards that we should we recommend that we listen to the board You know the or excuse me They We should listen to the recommendations of the board So I just wanna know if in fact the boards Uh recommendation means something or does not mean anything Uh listening to the board Yes acting on what the board is recommending which I think is what you mean by lesson is to follow the board No I think we have a responsibility to do our due diligence and that boards Uh interview is obviously valuable to Mayorm I watched that too I found it valuable Um And Then they recommendation Uh They They didn't sit in my shoes They didn't have the perspective that I have and uh or Mayor Pete or anyone of us who sat with him and so That that to me is very valuable We definitely need to take the boards But That doesn't mean we're always gonna agree with them Otherwise What's Our role I mean give them the ability to appoint if that's I mean just So That's what I Call a rubber stamp And I Don't wanna go to that If We we We have ran it that way Council member Davis and as council member Willis to bring I mean it's been you have the option pretty much of one And It's like Well yeah of course And I think the boards in the same You're the only one I see Um and it you know it sat vacant for two years And then They step in And and it's yes Uh you sort of feel Compelled to to to do it in a and while we're thankful for it I'm going I mean at what point do we Value and put weight on the interview process and then in the in the internal knowledge and so uh Yeah Council member Willis I My My comments are um I would like to pursue a process and I did say And if I remember Uh I would not support that night Council member Raymond not Um until It was and it's not dependent on change in the process so we can write rules that she would have to jump over Absolutely not Um I I'm saying I would vote against today in the in the if if that's what we wanna do and I still think we should make the improvement Uh some improvements and I would start with uh some of the ones you suggested and maybe looking at other communities and piggybacking off their procedures But whatever method allows us to see a few more than than one candidate and maybe like you said it's one still comes as a recommendation out of the pool I think that's a good start as we still get one recommendation but we know city staff Work through until they were able to get a couple to overcome the time issue of what happens if we don't get the second I think that's uh That I would be interested in going after so much time There is kind of this next gear We need to put it into and say Hey We've been at this for 60 days We still only have one applicant Well 90 days if we only have one I'd be OK with going with the one but we do some extra effort there in those final 30 days that may be mirrored what we did here And I'll say it sometimes a particular candidate running Will attract a lot more people to come up and run And so that I think had something to do with it too Um Well Mr mayor I have some more comments Um I know it We all on this dais Um have it from time to time Gone against An Advisory board's recommendation for a multitude of things and we vote what we know and what we have discovered Um And I have no problem with that Um And I don't want to rubber stamp And an advisory board Just because they say it if I'm opposed to it then I'll vote opposed to it Um What are mourning Is consistency In everything And consistency in our boards and consistency in our actions And I will bring up The Change in the minutes Concerns regarding all excuse me potential conflicts of interest with the applicants involvement in past City Council meeting discussion regarding Pickleball versus tennis Are We supposed to consider people's preferences Are We supposed to consider a potential conflict of interest if that's the case Miss Jackson Council member Jackson You deal with short term rentals Are We supposed to discount your opinion Is a conflict of interest That's we need to be consistent And if We're not going to adhere to it ourselves Don't require it of someone else That's all I'm wanting OK so consistency Uh we did not vote Yes or no I think that it that might have been an inconsistency Right I I would agree Show me another time where we We did not take action and so the burden to take action From our city attorney and I do not disagree with him and certainly no one had an absolute less Council member Raymond made it clear I think today that wasn't her intent But in that moment I can't look citizens in the eyes and say I appointed the person that walked out of the meeting and so I had we said You know what we're gonna hold We'll get back to appointing Um That would have been an inconsistency I think compared to to what we've done I don't know if it's in conflict but taking action is important so we don't string people along Um So yes Whatever we can do to get A pool of candidates or or minimum it is is good and We cannot be in consistent What Was there something inconsistent here Other than Mister May that yes Um I think a lot of that What councilman will uh councilman is discussing is the fact that I said there could be a a perceived conflict of interest between pickle ball And tennis because and in that Recorded meeting Last time I mentioned that I didn't feel comfortable with that that Angela had the prior fall discuss the fact that she was a tennis player and that there was a rivalry going on between tennis Uh uh at getting access to a tennis court or a pickleball court So that's what my situation was Now What uh and from what Council member Willis just said he's worried that me having a business of short term rentals Um is some type of conflict of interest Now I have an act sat up here and asked everyone Please send your family to my Short term rental business I have made no type of effort to promote my business at all And I'm not really involved with anything Actually I've turned people in Since we've gotten Decker So um for not following our minimum six night rentals So that just me being in business in some way does not create a conflict of interest The problem with that I felt and like I said It was a potential I did not say there was one I said It was a potential that there could potentially be but she brought it to council in the fall discussing the fact that there was a rival Going with tennis and she wanted to make sure tennis was covered Go back and look at meetings I was in the meeting that time so I think that might be what council member Willis was pointing to on consistencies was that and he wants it to be consistent Um you know with Then I don't see how those two comparisons are similar but That's my interpretation em around We all have our own Preferences But um Uh you know I agree you didn't ever Advocate going to your rentals That's not the issue The issue is that that is what you do Could it potentially be a conflict Maybe I'm not going to say it but uh Didn't preclude you from being here And Everyone on everyone here has a job Uh no This is my job Well you're retired So That's your job The Rest of us have jobs Yeah Mickey works at the VFW and and Kim in health care if there's no action that creates a conflict of interest But They are not the ones that said potential conflict of interest in the meetings of 10 minutes of the conflict of interest directly relates to the rec center The rec center has the same person over it as the board So to me that could could end up being a perceived conflict of interest if one or the other of the stated two groups that are having a problem in rivalry ended up getting Twisted that they didn't get what they wanted Um that's why I wanted all of these things addressed so that they would be taken care of It shouldn't be this hard If There was a legitimate conflict of interest Our City attorney has advised on these in the past they would need to remove themselves from the vote If the conflict of uh interest Comes up so prevalent so much There are times when it might make sense that they would not be fit for that board I Think uh identifying potential conflicts of interest is a healthy thing to do We all could be in a circumstance where there Here's a scenario You know where you're about to vote on something We have a responsibility to to address that and and I We pick annual ethics trainings on those things to make sure we do and I did ever sense that because uh you know there There's an interest I mean people Should take their interest and try to get on advisory boards and advocate for tennis and pickleball That to me is is not a major issue however Uh It It is it's a different process from how you sit here and and elected by the people and then we we appoint um conflicts of interest are that has been brought up by the subject candidate for uh PNZ put on the agenda several times that conflict of interest card was was raised a few times and I think until she's Voting on something there right Um Or we foresee that she would essentially not be able to participate in the majority of votes That would be an issue but I can't think of a reasonable conflict of interest You're right Could be I trust One thing she does is she has the training she would know to consult and to remove Um but I did not sense that that was a major issue for you It was just I had two concerns IC U Yeah I had two concerns and I stated those concerns I wanted to look at how we handled the second one I stated that with with Friday fest and a board member I said any board member I said perception And literally It's in our Constitution that that's what we're supposed to do as public servants We've got the public trust in our hands And So You know what I am trying to do my fiduciary duty If that's something that's of a concern to me It was brought to me by three different people And I Wanna make sure that we as a city don't put ourselves out that way to create a negative connotation in any way as far as public trust is concerned we're all elected officials and we're serving the people And it should have been a simple conversation I'm very sorry that it that it was Misconstrued as a personal thing because I specifically say on video any council member And any board related to that Let's get it fixed And Ame Davis I have two things First of all in a big scheme of this thing where we're deciding what we're gonna do with the civic hub How important is tennis and pickleball I mean there may be somebody else on the on the ward that says I love racquetball I don't want him tearing down the racquetball court That's something the board will decide that's a vote They'll take that's something We We will consider that I mean we're talking pickle ball and tennis I Don't you know you get so you know I don't wanna give I'm not saying Raymond we wanna get you're giving So much credit How Do You know that's gonna be a conflict How Do You know that that she's gonna do this and do that We can't assume that about anybody I could say Mary Mary loves racquetball OK so she's gonna fight so we don't tear it down or so and so loves Shuffle board So there's gonna be a fight is that a conflict of interest because they're fighting for what they think would is better or what they prefer to do So my second You know it's we're making a big deal out of tennis and pickleball Second you ask for consistencies Interviewing her and we were going to take a vote It's the first time that I've seen and I'm not saying it hasn't happened I'm just saying that I've seen or I've been aware of that all of a sudden in the middle of taking a vote on a candidate We Uh we're gonna change We should change the process You know we need to consider changing the process and doing this and doing that If that's the case We need to do that change process before that applicant became available or two after we decided against or for whatever that Whatever the vote should be but in the middle of when an applicant is applying and we're taking a vote it should not be in the middle Well We need to change the process we need to have you know whatever Especially when this is Oh this board has been open for two years or almost two years I don't know the exact date So Don't quote me So That was an inconsistency We should have done it before If We thought that we needed to change our our policy on how we do this We should have done it after we should have not done it during the interview of that applicant So I mean that's none of I and I'm not preferring just to Raymond and and Miss Raymond I'm referring to any applicant in the middle of the the whole process and we can't just change it so that that's my two points or are we not allowed to reject candidate or question that I think we're clear that with or without cause we we a majority of the council decides who sits on those boards I'm not saying You can't question her I'm just saying you know we were trying to Discuss changing the policy of how we're going to do this That shouldn't be done in the middle of a a process We didn't change the policy We were just we Oh OK We were just We Just we were discussing Um as a council her application when she got upset and left No but but during that timeframe it was brought up that we need to consider changing the policy of how we are Not those exact words but the procedure or whatever and how we do the applicants and how we take their applications So that should have been done before or done after Not during that That's All I have to say And We Need to move on mayor pro Tim I just um I think that that it was an a consent on the consent agenda and you pulled it so that means we discuss it You know we just didn't pass it through And then if if You know as far as the boards go if if the I I've been on the board and when you when an applicant comes in you're just so glad to have another volunteer that you're gonna just pass it through But when they ask him questions and then the council looks at the answers they gave and they're not Consistent with the vision of the city or the mission or Whatever then the council at their pleasure has the right to Uh you know not right Vote him in and And if you guys look at the The minutes It says discussions continued regarding the desire to better understand the city's volunteer advisory board process so I think That's important We get that right And then it's um in the minutes Um I thought it was in the agenda And then uh you know the desire of the applicant to uh Pick up the and of the uh term And Um then it says the city attorney a vice counsel that no action is necessary You applicant left The impression of withdrawal upon leaving the meeting So No Council action was taken I mean I I don't she didn't like the way the questions were going on and she left So to me that's withdrawing Um if she wants to start over again and have another application or we work through this process and get it Where like uh don says consistency Let's give it back to the staff Figure it out and um And move on I agree and thank you for reminding us of the minutes Um I do not wanna touch the section in our are we talking about changing our Our code I don't think there's anything in our code that says how many applicants we have to look at I I don't think city attorney went over that Yeah So Would that be something we wanna Look into I think it we could consider it But but people applying then what are you gonna do Wait and let the board work One person two person you know Three people short I know but if you have people and I'm not just referring to Miss Raymond if you have people that are applying that pass the board then then why don't we consider him You do I don't think you should wait a half a year and say Oh no we can't You know we can't say or we can't bring the people forward in front of council until we have three or five people applied We may never have three or five people that apply So why did you have to wait six months Why Do you have to wait a year What if it works What if we do get three Well then that's fine But What happens when it I I don't have a problem with that But What happens when it doesn't then that means should I addressed that earlier I think Oh I I agree Council members we should set a time limit on it And at the end of that time I do think we should Pursue And I think that Is valid it could have We could have one candidate after and and that's not right to do to the candidate What I'm saying in this circumstance Is I would not support that candidate By themselves unless we had to fill that board In Our City attorney says you You have to run with a minimum of seven Our code does talk about it's a seven person board Right And so maybe one way to look at it is So I person board This is all we have As Coun councilor member It's been 90 days Uh I'm not saying you have to put them on if they don't approve you know do the process and they get approved by the board We don't The board doesn't have to recommend them if they don't want them I'm not saying they have to automatically because there's nobody else have to be put on But when the board recommends an applicant then they need to be considered I would be interested in adding language to try for to get some sort of minimum criteria and then address council member davis' concern on what a time I think we could incorporate that into the language as well And it would be a better step I Think for us to take And um Looking at other codes too or or comparative Policy from other cities if they have it Yeah the the the boat The majority of the council For any reason Will decide I Think What we're talking about is If It was a quorum issue Yes I I would have Looked at that totally different right They have to be able to do business But They did it without two years and then right when she gets off She's applying No wasted time I think that's awesome Uh But I know that there has been some interest out in the community about boards And I also know that if there's ever been a time for me That in that board under these circumstances It didn't make sense for for for for for me and so I welcome her to Come back Uh but Again She walked out of an interview I mean really That's That's a nonstarter So That wasn't as a due to our process Our process was lacking Um But I do think We can start there So If You want direction I would Uh come back with some proposed language that would help Us have a more options and A apply that um so that we're not stuck in this the only one we've got cycle the only one we have in the in the boards feel I think the same way and is OK Uh we're we're gonna go through and then we're sort of hand cut We're on a on a roller coaster Uh because me I agree with our city clerk It is difficult We've all tried to just get volunteers for anything It's hard you know and so That's it Council member Willis No I Think we've uh beat about this thing a fair amount so Move on to the next Thank you It is a uh It is appreciated that We need direction you want Do You want you asking Or Is there Consensus to try to come up with some code language Or do you wanna Just deal with this from an operational standpoint I think that we could As staff for some code language Um some timelines Maybe uh You know consistency Dewey necessarily need code or just And administrative effort That's What I Mean by op operational I mean it is a chronic problem Most cities Vacancies happen all the time And You have to take Look at well I It might be helpful if if from an administrative standpoint that you know when vacancies Um Are occur I mean you have to take a multifaceted approach to try to find as many candidates as you as you can To fill the vacancy I would start by making sure that council is notified of the vacancy And it's on Council has the ability to try to refer People Uh to the clerk's office to fill that position The board members may have an acquaintance that they may wanna refer The clerk can certainly advertise um in in appropriate places Of the vacancy And perhaps the from an an administrative standpoint Once that vacancies occur You know that there's a like a little time period To allow the council the board And advertising to hopefully work its magic and increase the pool of potential candidates to fill At which point the the council will have choices Rather than just be limited to one person to fill one vacancy but frankly a lot of times after a certain period of time May not have any candidates that want to serve on the board or you may have one vacancy and just one person Wants to volunteer Then you know does the council You know be probably wanna consider filling the vacancy rather than leaving it open because you know the law generally doesn't favor vacancies On boards right because the we want the boards to conduct the business They don't have a complete roster But Generally they need to have Core Of the of the total composition that has been a historical problem With the board of Adjustment Trying to even have a For that can meet to conduct business So I mean those are just some suggestions it it's just Stop to find volunteers for city boards I I would prefer that solution Um And to try to put a time limit on the accumulation of applicants I don't want it to go too long I know when I was on the bed board We had three people We could never have a quorum So It just we couldn't get people Um But It starts with you know notifying You know stuff can make sure the boards notified there's a vacancy They know you know inherently from being there but There is a vacancy trying to fill the councils advise that there's a vacancy so try to try to find ways to increase the pool Mmhm You all have a stake in it too I mean Refer somebody IN to serve on a The Nothing wrong with that And and may I say that our rosters online on our city website clearly shows vacancies so anybody can just go straight to those rosters or contact my office anytime they want to find out What vacancies are available Well in in the handout You all have the rosters And the vacancy so But I think if if we can get some Feedback from the directors who head up boards What they think might be reasonable would be helpful if we took And and went back through tonight General I think you've heard A desire to to try and overcome some of these issues II I think that's good Why don't we See if we can get some help Um It may be The recommendation is it's not a policy change but In in the next Couple of meetings It could stay Could City staff come back with Some of the ideas we heard tonight to help Really in Improve this And specifically any direction but I think if you had to Here tonight Some of the issues keep more keep it more broad and II I think you hit it pretty well A few minutes ago We tend to when we find ourselves in uncharted territory Recognize that we're trying to build a wheel Maybe There's somebody else who already built this wheel Maybe There's better practices out there So I I think the idea of researching some other cities Um I know that the the city Clerks organization is very Tight knit group that shares things in best practices and whatnot And I think asking for a copy of their board procedures looking at it through from the City Clerks organization Just Look what other processes are there are out there Um maybe there's lots Maybe there's none I don't know But let's let's look out there and and just bring this information back to council and see if there's a better process out there How Does That sound sounds good Also You know you can compare it similarly to filling a position Because if you have a position that's in dire need You don't stop if you don't get the right applicant as your first one So There may be steps that you have to incorporate in to generate more interest So comparing is a good good idea Well thank you So How about this for a consensus to reach out to other cities for best practices Make it nice and neat Yes and when ready just submit that Willis I think is driving this one So Yeah just submit them to to counsel Here's what we found Here's What's out there Thank you any opposed to that No I Think consensus on what city clerk read So thank you OK So Uh we do need to move along Um And this one I this one Your Uh council member Jackson which is uh This number five for those listening a discussion of current policy for Friday Fast Booths Council member Jackson Yes Thank you so this brought up You know bad things for us in the last meeting and I That's As I said That wasn't my intention Um I know that Friday fest is a challenge because the booze are they book out in advance Quite And then they had six months and things like that And um Some people may not qualify To run for counsel um until August So What I'm looking at is to in order to for us to make sure that we do not give the perception in any way shape or form That anyone is picking a winner or loser in this game that we find some type of an alternative so that people that are running for council can be afforded booths and that makes it difficult because of the fact that they do qualify all the way into a August So knowing um Knowing that this was a perception in our last election I would like to see what we could do to the current policy in order to maybe make some changes and accommodate candidates being able to get booths and I've spoken with our city attorney We have to be careful and I'll let him speak to First Amendment rights but surely with this group of intelligent people we have on this diet that we ought to be able to come up with something that Will work so that we always were able to get our candidates some boots when they're running for office Financially support No OK so so just afford them the ability to guarantee a a reserved guaranteed space on payment with all I like the idea although Anthony had some um Feedback for it but I like the idea of holding back a certain number of booths and then if people did qualify you could ask them and say Do you want the booth or not Um if they didn't then release it In that way people that are on the waitlist because there's a waitlist that you can sign up for online that way They could um you know be contacted in the booth could be utilized by a vendor Um but Anthony will talk to you about First Amendment rights If you don't mind a city attorney Right now Sure Um not advisable Um The way the city currently has its policy set up um with respect to vendor booths and the reservation system and I'm sure staff can speak to the the technical aspects of the vet the reservation system but The Council does allow um you know businesses and um artists who sell their wares and crafts but also as a provision in the current policy that a vendor may include a person or entity that desires to bring awareness to local charitable religious and political issues It's not a charitable organizations religious institutions candidates running for elected office and petition organizers for bona fide ballot initiative So You have a provision in the existing policy that opens the vendor booths up to protected activity So First amendment is going to apply You can't pick who or what you know Eventually Someday you are gonna be put in a in a box um cause you're dealing with protected protected activities and the city can't get preference to one over another The city can't give preference to Cape Canaveral City Council members over some other Elected official or some other organization where boots are eligible So In my opinion It needs to be very content neutral from a from a subject matter standpoint in terms of the vendor type of vendor Um and you can't discriminate against viewpoint So There's there's just not gonna be a way to to justify those types of um you know distinctions based on Viewpoint and content The The Constitution is gonna prohibit that the way this is currently structured On The other hand there may be some very Yeah It may be some tweaks that the the the city may wanna make regarding the When The boots become available right So Um you know maybe you know And and I know I think there's 35 total fender booths And I think the city opens up the reservation system Effect of every I Think January 1 of every year So You know the city has a first in time I mean at 1st 1st come first serve policy and that is because of the constitutional limitations based on this current policy um so but you're opening up all of the vendor boots the first of the year and your new businesses that come to town may be in August or candidates that finally figure out that they're gonna qualify For some office that may be interested in a booth They don't No or may not exist Um until later on in the year and your early birds Have the potential of taking all of the vander boots Right So Maybe Maybe in order to You know protect the perhaps the new businesses that may come to town or those that you know you may maybe you reserve some of them to be opened up You know later rather than opening up all up at the same time in January you know besides the city also once the a vendor submits an application it's on file for for for a year and you know those vendors during the course of course of the year Um spec You know that file Especially at the beginning you know they are In a better position to be you know first come first serve right Um There may be an existing business an existing organization for years Yeah the they they can plan ahead You know a new business that operates O opens up in August I mean they're not planning ahead for a vendor booth in January of the same year that they worried about just getting up operating And then I say Hey Oh There's a vender booth available Maybe I'll Go and try to promote promote my business Once I once I started and created in August right they may wanna come in in September or October So That's one suggestion to try to stay with the first come first serve Is maybe just Opening some of those booth booths up later in the in the year rather than all at once That's one suggestion Assuming you even want to keep this policy of opening up vendor booths To protected activities Can I ask a question Um Molly January 1st when all these booths open up are we full at the beginning of the year Are there still vacancies come the end of the year or when do they fill up if they fill up it varies Um uh this year for 2024 as an example we sold out on our food vendors before the end of February But Those are limited spaces obviously because of your safety and fire codes were limited to 10 So with only 10 those Almost immediately Um with last year's I believe the booth spaces Filled up for the October event By about the end of September so it just it It depends They're not all taken I mean there's still if you want There's still some available They're they typically is maybe one or two but there's no way that we could ever Really predict how it's gonna go because there's also um one of the things and we've been really really fortunate I don't know if anybody's noticed We haven't had any rain cancellations lately I probably just screwed us up Um but um when we do have rain cancellations or when people do cancel they do have the option of rolling something over So we're one day we might not have it or or we might have some Can see some vacant booths available that could change at any moment with somebody saying Hey I got a surgery coming up I have already paid for August Can You roll me over to September and then all of a sudden now September's full where Perhaps It wasn't like the week prior so Council member Jackson City attorney I think went over the First Amendment We understand a little bit more about the procedures Are You looking for more council comments because if so Thank you Um I think personally I think you know having A percentage of booths that are open later Sounds like a good solution Um Because I I Personally I Don't Wanna take anyone's First Amendment rights away If It's a group that's not Someone's favorite Even Uh so to me that seems like it would be a viable alternative As far as accommodating or giving a better ability to accommodate that Knowing how popular it's gonna be And You know when we get further along in the civic cub process that may not be as much of a Situation because we had more available booths But I think that looking at it now so that we don't have any perceived perception That is not you know a good thing for the city that we should look and see how we can handle it And that seems like fable alternative We Definitely wanna do it You know in a legal manner I think we know the qualified candidates We know high years was Uh yeah 20 We've seen six and seven candidate years and so reserving that on the high and obviously no candidates or one would would not even be Part a minimum of two I think would be per seat So I think uh Knowing it would come down to capacity and if we can feels like in when these things happens Well can't you just add on right or and we're trying to get out in front of it and plan for it But I did like the idea of giving staff the ability to know early You know once you qualify to run Hey we have these Friday fest booths You need to let us know by this date if you're going to reserve so we can plan and maybe we can make it a part of the qualifying packet Um And Um as Molly said she had some last time that booked as late as the end of September Well if we put a date that's You know in August on that along with their qualifying package then that way it will free it up If Someone doesn't want to do that as quickly as possible so that it doesn't inconvenience you Would that be I would think that would be better Molly than waiting till the last minute I'm sure Mr mayor Um Why can't we just have it as an insert into the qualifying packet As These things are available And It's up to the candidate To take responsibility for applying and paying and being there I know this past election I uh reserved a booth on September 7th for October And Then I tried to reserve a booth for November At the first of October and Oh It was full and I was just told Sorry You know you're on a waiting list And Uh I think uh That Uh Molly made some adjustments and got both of us in in November I Don't I don't know what those adjustments were but it did It did cost me $42.80 for adjustment but right Well but uh I you know I It was my fault I didn't I didn't apply early enough That's the reason reason I didn't have a booth in uh in November Or up until that point didn't have a booth So I think you just have to put it back on the candidate Do what you're supposed to do And Uh you know if we have seven candidates running they all know it when they qualify that there's this possibility Uh and we've had elections Where Uh a You very well know that they don't reserve a booth They just drive around in a convertible and waving a a sign at everybody So you know I think uh I think we just need to put it back on the candidate to do what they need to do I agree because if you're trying to reserve are you saying OK we're gonna keep 10 spots open But if that candidate doesn't get in or well we're going to reserve it for him That's defeating the purpose That's how I That's How I'm understanding this We want to preserve Excuse me We don't want to open up all spots We Wanna keep some open but then we wanna keep some open so that candidates can get in You know that's again going against We prejudicing people my mi mi interpreting cause I'm taking like we're gonna keep everything open but we're gonna make sure the candidates get in those 10 spots that are left That's how I interpret it I said I mean I Oh I know you didn't Yeah So you the the the city camp You know provide any preference If You're gonna open this up to protected activities The City can't constitutionally have this preferences based on distinctions of speech OK a candidate running for any office right political speech But The way the the I believe the Constitution functions if some Very offensive Um organization That wanted to engage and protected speech And have a vendor booth Then they a RE They would be just as um eligible As a candidate that wants to express political speech the way the the way this is opened up And so that my point is If You want to just generally keep This is just an example Four fourth quarter Um then of of Friday Fest events If you reserve five booths And not open them up on a first come first serve on September 1 the first day right of the fourth quarter Then Everyone has a fair opportunity to get in But You can't submit an application till September 1 No I understand that and I agree with that What I'm saying is how I'm interpreting this is OK We're gonna save so many spots for till the end you know and then you know but as a candidate they're expecting to get in Where they can't That's my point You can't expect so what happens if the candidate fails to meet the deadline again In those tense when those 10 slots were open they can't cry Wolf I mean they they you know just like the first time if you don't meet the deadline you don't meet the deadline no matter who we are I mean I've had a booth there you know just selling stuff or whatever So if you don't meet the deadline you don't meet the deadline and you can't expect because they're reserving spots that it's gonna be saved for a candidate It's gonna be open to everybody And again if you miss that deadline then you miss the deadline Deadlines The deadline So I think we should keep it as is and put it on the candidate And not expect that because they're not going to open everything up that there's gonna be an opening at the end of one of the issues that Based on my conversations Um over the last couple of weeks is Like I like I mentioned at the beginning if it's new business coming to town In August of the of the current year Or candidate that qualifies in August or the Florida Supreme Court approves a ballot measure You know late in a late in in in the summer to get out or like to get on the ballot Um You have a first come first serve policy and went on those 35 vendor boots That opened up January 1 So if you You know a later You Don't you don't know till later that you you may even Um and have a need For Vander booth for legitimate reasons You Yeah You could be shut out For the For the for the current year And Of course you know when you're dealing with referendum questions And candidates running for office The decisions made in November Right a booth the next year isn't gonna matter much right unless you Win an election and You know you wanna just have one as an elected official or like you know right So I mean that was That was my point If You're gonna you know reserve some for you know the late comers And the candidate would still be responsible They would be something could be inserted in their candidate package that says if you want a booth you need to apply immediately for your kid Friday fast food it booth if they don't do it and they don't get in then it's on them They been notified they had an opportunity to actually have a booth But if a booth is booked six months in advance and that Canada doesn't even know they're running till August they'll never have an opportunity to get out in front of the the people The Voter in Cape Canaveral II I don't have an issue with you know reserving booths till later I just you know that if you don't you don't do it Then It's on your You Know your yourself that you didn't qualify or to to do it and no rights are violated You're meant First amendment rights or whatever rights were not violated because you didn't apply in time There's All I'm saying and that's what I'm saying is that if you reserve You know five It's first come first serve and A candidate running for council has to compete with anyone else that may be Wanting uh wanting a wanting one of those eligible booths So It's on the It's on the applicant The me the application deadline and get in And I I don't know that the board has any responsibility other than setting the You know you're not responsible for violating anybody's rights or doing affecting the elections or any of that kind of stuff The board is not so But it That's what My Entire premise was around though Council member uh Davis says the perception and it literally says in the Constitution that public trust were not supposed to have the perception of any of that at all So What um attorney or City attorney is recommending same thing You'd be responsible for it but would hold some back because if your candidate and you hadn't decided to run after until after January 1st that year and you don't get a booth it can be perceived and it's perception I'm talking about So That's the whole premise of that But I agree with you and I understand what you're saying and I agree for keeping some open But you stated the other day that it was in affected the elections and it violated your amendment rights It didn't violate your me Right You didn't apply in time No I did not say that Please go back and listen to that meeting I said There was a perception that that occurred and I don't want that perception occurring within our city It was not even me I've spoken to the city manager over at multiple times It was a constituent one of the voters that felt that they spoke to city manager at his coffee with the city manager So I am saying if there's a perception my duty as a public servant is to ensure that that is addressed That's what I'm doing with this So We agree on how to handle it And That's a great thing but at no point did I say That It was a breach of my rights I said There was a perception that that was the case and we wanna make sure that we don't have that As a city It's a negative thing And It even says so in our constitution in Florida League city training I'm not gonna go arguing with you about that because I know social media I I just I Think that what Anthony's recommending um holding some back and putting the insert in the candidate's packet and be done with it And you know that would solve the problem Um I think that's what we should do get a consensus on that because it's getting late Yeah We need to move We've lost uh we're doing about an hour per per item since the return and so let's try to wrap this up I would like to make a motion that we uh take our city attorney's advice Hold back a percentage of booths as recommended by city manager for availability Later in the year And an agenda I or a packet item be added so that candidates are aware they need to immediately secure their product Their F fast food We We are uh we I can make a motion Um or to take action See the way all right So I mean The policy as it's written in the application has been um you know administratively created So I mean if if that's the consensus based on this discussion then I can work with staff to make the modifications to Help them make the modification to the application Uh to address You know the consensus that you all um appear to have reached About um Reserving some of the the vendor booths for um You know later later in the year Let me Mayor May I add something to the conversation Um Friday fest is only one of the opportunities that you've As candidates have the uh anybody has the opportunity to engage in the other items that tend to come up within that election hearing type of window is national night out which is hosted by the Sheriff's office We only provide support We roll out the speakers in the stage and you know that's about it for that so you'd have to reach out to them To participate in that event but we also have our trunk or treat which a lot of candidates have participated in in the past and part of the handout that we've discussed internally will include not only the Friday fest opportunities but the other outreach opportunities as well Um and then beyond that um There's two What I call natural breaks in our Friday fest operations There's a stop in January and then there's a stop in July Typically when we decide to make um any changes to the rules of the processes how we get people in what route we tell the food vendors to turn on what route we tell the retail vendors where we tell them to park We tend to make those we have those conversations you know leading up to the December event We work on whatever we need to do administratively or you know are our verbiage for our regular emails that go out If You've participated in our events You've seen the emails from Marcie telling you where to turn where to What time to get there and how long you're expected to stay Um those changes typically take effect starting in January So since we've already opened up the um The booth Spaces for this year a consideration of the board might be to um Try to utilize one of those natural breaks because the next natural break is July Um but if you set say um just pick Arbitrary number 25% reserved 25% for later release We might not have that Left over in this Current year right now so Just Something to consider January is typically um in the past when we've made like Larger changes which those are minimal But it's a nice break and it's an opportunity for us to say Hey vendors Time to update your information if things have changed Um and then they are requested to fill out an updated application So just things to consider Thank you Any opposed from what city attorney It recommended as far as This I think we have consensus Mia Are you clear on the consensus I would like clarification on the consensus please from the city attorney I mean the consensus a motion to you and said it's a discussion item It's an administrative policy as long as it remains administrative then you can through this discussion give a consensus for staff there and then the administrative policy The consensus as I understand it Is two fold And that is one There would be um I would work with staff to amend the application Um to it and to address reserving a certain number of booths For later in the year And make them uh the opportunity to reserve those boots it would would occur later in the year The other the other component to this is um In The Candidate qualifying package which the the the clerk serves as the qualifying officer She will um provide an insert About these outreach opportunities including Friday fest so at least candidates are aware that they exist And if a candidate decides on their own Volition that they wanna take it try to take advantage of them It's on them to To um Meet the cities you know policies right and then with respect to Friday fest that would be first come first serve Um and there will be some reserve boots and I can work With Molly Um you know I know this couple stop times here Um we can we can talk about the schedule and Are The implement this This consensus Um is that That's cause That's sum up the two fold Reserves just for general purposes Not specified purpose they're reserved for vendors later later in the year they'll open up for the for vendors as stated in the in the application Which that that you can prove that Cause it The problem happens when it when one candidate gets in and the other one can't And as long as we can go let me explain to you why and it makes sense and it's fair And it might be you know just Improving the way we communicate the existing process But I would say that would be the scenario that I think will give us all comfort is when we tell someone no It's not There's no debate and I think we have time stamps on submissions and things like we were saying that's that's it I have to say We Good We need to move Um we are at 951 I Want it before we dive into the next item Um Which is item number six council member Willis his item and then we have uh EV reports as Item seven and then eight permitting uh hardship Um We will need Let's Let's go ahead if if we intend to get through these And and give me uh if you don't mind estimated time it will take two minutes for me to do mine Well that we can just proceed with that one right away I think that makes sense Let's serve The floor is yours Um yeah After submitting this item for discussion My goal was to have the city manager direct staff to advertise a lot of our efforts Uh environmental efforts for the city Um and our resiliency efforts to other municipalities to better understand their best practices and let them know What we are doing here in the city of Cape Canaveral and create um A network if we could Because We can do all the To start discharging clean water into the Banana river is all day long And if nobody else is helping Still dirty But since Submitting this discussion item Uh Zach I cots has gotten in touch with me gave me some information They've already started this and I was unaware of it so they've already included the city of Melbourne Cocoa Beach Indian Harbor Beach And Uh me all and redevelopment agency in the Florida Fish and wildlife They're communicating So Zach is going to be expanding that network So We're they are achieving the resiliency department is achieving what I'm asking for That's great That's all I've got Thank you uh any other comments from the council on this item Item number seven We are at 953 Council member Jackson These Final two are yours I I don't wanna be right up till 10 Do you have an estimate on how much time you think you'll need for these This is uh Mr de Leo is still there Um I believe John's still here Um Dave or Lexie Can you check So um They I gave counsel a handout There's a lot of market indicators that are pointing down where we have layoffs We Tesla is even laid off We have quite a quite a bit of things going on as transitions probably to E DS to hybrids Have a car But and it's occurring so I wanted to give you that For some information you'll see the exact once again provided us with the reports in here Um John Do you pass possibly have the total of number on the numbers on the charges for me in dollars $1600 from December to February 12th It was only like 1100 bucks 1600 I Don't think that I don't know did put it all the way to 331 and that was about $1600 1600 Q One was about 1100 from January to March or 12 Yeah And the estimate for what we would be looking at as far as a target on the charging Was around $72,000 We are going to be off on that in my opinion but I could be wrong I Um And The reason I say that is we just have our busiest period of the year So I think we need to And I know that Um this is a way to look at Providing more information for us than than that present value and things like that He's gonna tell you something and just Um but Uh just to let you know we That was our biggest period of the year No birds were in And that's what we were looking like looking at on what we brought in on charges So We're gonna be off target Or what Our At a bunch or projection You want to talk about the um Present value Sure and that there's a lot of analytical stuff involved there So what I did is I do into a analytical Element And Um they had answered me And Uh uh if you wanted to Uh go ahead and Get that service so they could they would go ahead and put all these elements and variables in to this uh NPV spreadsheet and their The things that they do It's what they do as an expert you know almost like actuaries do stuff This is what these people do And Uh then uh they would charge us uh between 2500 and $5000 And it would have all the elements in there we need And Then that could actually be reused for the future for something else by using their models and then inserting information in there and whenever you would need their assistance uh of course they could charge you a fee for If You have additional questions I don't know what other Things like Chargers would come in the future But if there's things you wanted to measure then it might contain more elements than just the things you see in those reports and the things that they incorporate In the discount rate the break even rate and all that stuff So Um yeah if it's if the council thinks it's worthwhile to pursue this then um we would go ahead and Tell these folks that this is something Uh we would like to have It is early in the ball game I do agree with council member Jackson that to uh Try to pin down numbers after the busy season Now I don't even know how you do that I know Zach has put a lot of things together and in um Zach's not here And I'm not I I will say this and I'll speak in his uh in his in his stead Uh he did provide the $72,000 for the budget Um but of course when he was doing that he had he had to deal with the information that was available at the time All the elements that affected what could drive that So He actually did it I thought a very good analysis and what he had to get to that number now and um Council member Jackson was in my office with Zach and I will tell you that to achieve $72,000 Are we talking about by September 30th because that's what's in the budget right I don't I Don't even see how you do that be But I don't know what's gonna happen in the next so many months but I don't even see how you could achieve that and we had no history to go on there But We do know this though Up with the These EV Chargers And what have you So potentially and I don't even know And We talked about this council member Jackson I don't even know but if there's a break even point and And Maybe things will really escalate But Let's just say 3.5 years break even point Um for the taxpayer it still would have been worth it because you would have retrieved back the dollars you put in established a program And then as long as electric vehicles stay popular and in the future and whatever I can't predict that in the next four years But if it does then we're gonna continue to make money then uh in In other words it'll be a revenue stream I Think I we got we're at 10 Oclock Yeah that's that's that's all I got one more question Do We know the F the cost for the electricity for them Um I would have to get with Zack He did all the the reports and stuff I don't know Needed for the report so I'll work with them on that OK Just that this discussion well instead of a to to rush you through it's 10 O'clock So what I'd like to do is give ourselves some time We need the time and I need to address in reports What I what I was talking about And if you have to go Uh you can go I understand but let's let's entertain emotion I would ask for 30 minutes Uh if And We can be done in 15 if if that happens but II I dont a motion to extend 30 minutes One second A motion by council member Jackson's uh second by mayor pro Tim Callum to extend To 1030 for 30 minutes Any other discussion on that as the state of New Jersey is now Adding it a very broad tax on EVS Um Others are gonna be paying $250 road fee tax due to the road pollution As well as um The total taxes that are gonna be added To Any new vehicle purchase is 1060 so states and cities are looking at ways to Uh combat road pollution And the weight of vehicles on the roadways Just so everyone knows So Those are things that Are happening within the And that was in the last item OK let's go ahead and vote this motion through for the extension We got a motion in the second more discussion See non city Clerk Council member Davis or council member Jackson for mayor pro Tim Kellum Mayor Morrison Council member Willis for Thank you all Council member Jackson Cuts member Davis I was just gonna ask your How How long do you think your report is going to go I don't know OK I I would say I need uh my goal would be As much of the 30 minutes as possible And This Next one is mine Yes ma'am Uh this is the final discussion item number eight Yes And this item number I added to the agenda because we have condo associations uh within the state of Florida and in our area that are having problems with insurance Um increases that are just going off of the charts because when they go to recoup Recode a roof it is not a permitted process and the insurance companies are using that as um reason to go up and the increases have been from To 500% on increases for condo associations So yeah it's not a good thing I've talked with um our city manager in regards to this because I was at I had a hope that we would be able to add that pro permitting process to the cities uh permitting so that this would give the condo associations the ability to have that a permit Process which they could then provide to the insurance company The Insurance companies are literally looking at this like they never touch their roof even though they may have a 15 year or 20 year warranty on the coating itself Um and then Todd was giving me some information and talk Do You wanna talk Speak to the building Yes Thank you thank you And I would also ask Dave Dave has prepared a document that he can distribute to council while he's bringing it up and distributed it I can talk about that That's great um I'm reading from an email from uh that I sent to council member Jackson on Wednesday April 10th of this week I said Hi Hi Kay I had the opportunity to briefly discuss your agenda item with both Anthony and Dave Dickey I met I mentioned that you had previously explained that your item related to some recent activity regarding the insurance industry and the application of Roof Co At My request Dave requested a point of clarification on permitting for roof coatings from our building official to gather accurate information from the Florida building code perspective and that's the document that Dave's handing out the question is is a permit an inspection required for roof coatings The answer is if it's a coating over existing No but if it's a liquid applied roofing then yes It's been a few years since I was a building official in the code changes over the years so I copied my German to correct me if I got this wrong and he didn't think you Dave The Florida Building code refers to a roof structure as the structural portion of a roof This could be concrete It could be a wood truss system with plywood It's the structural part of the roof then the Florida building code refers to a roof covering separately This is the waterproofing membrane depending on the application This could be asphalt shingles It could be sheets of bituminous roofing many types of synthetic rubber roofing etc Think of it as the waterproofing part of the roof I've heard of fabric reinforced liquid applied systems that can be Reportedly serve as primary roof membrane but I have no experience with them I know that the age of the roof covering definitely impacts homeowners insurance and perhaps this is what you were looking into Uh there are coding products that are intended to extend the life of a roof covering but at least in the eyes of the Florida building code That's not the same as a new roof covering so I asked Mike to please let me know if I got that wrong and he didn't I hope this helps So I think adding this to the city's pages Definitely going to help because that'll help associations make an intelligent decision when they're looking at the roof Um the thing that I wanted to state Um were you going to try to get The permitting For This added through the building the state building Division code division If the council wishes to direct staff to do that or you ask you to work with staff Um what Mrs Jackson is referring to is the Florida building code has a general prohibition that a city cannot adopt a local technical amendment to the building code which is more stringent or less stringent than the Florida building code You may not do it however you may submit to the Florida Building Commission for approval of a local technical amendment and if approved they will make it code Throughout the whole state So and what Councilor Jackson is referring to is if we requested a local technical amendment to require that the Florida building code be amended to say that roof coatings require a permit and inspection That might help solve this Yes because I have a very big gap for these condo associations that have used recoding And It is creating a huge increase in their insurance policies for them and in some cases half of their annual budget I've talked to people to complexes that it's been half their annual budget for the increase in insurance So I was looking for any kind of relief that we may be able to work with them and get for them And if we had the ability to add that technical amendment it may assist Some of our condo associations here in the city and with insurance increases as well as SD four which is causing a lot of condo associations to have to put out big money for their services reports that are due This could assist with that Mr City manager or Mr mayor Yes please Um Could we Could we make an amendment For scarification I'm Sorry For what scarification of the roof In Other words you're taking off certain layers For instance Our our condominium has the flat roof And We have um a silicone treatment on it Over top of The um Soundproofing And Then we have the The seal over the concrete And if we take it down to the uh Soundproofing And just reapply it in the SPF coding On top of that The insurance companies are giving us a break on it Now They I think they would be Happier if we had some sort of permitting for that You're not taking the entire roof off So that kinda helps with the Sur issues But it The insurance company considers that a new roof At that point or at least the insurance company that we are dealing with with our condominium complex So my question is If You Look up Scarification It'll Tell you You're just taking off certain layers If we could do if we could permit that Or apply to have that change So That would be two requests for the local technical amendments One is just adding a liquid coating The Other one is this new verb I'm hearing for the first time scarification Yeah If I mean If We can't get it with one You you know try the other And I mean which is In a more severe step But It does reduce the cost of re roofing These buildings to satisfy the the serve Which is the Structural Integrity Reserve study Which is required of All the condominiums So Mayor II I Think Council member Jackson is a is asking about consensus from the council that she can work with staff to develop a request for local technical amendments as described here tonight Including the roof Recoating and the scarification Thank you for adding that in I think that's great I Don't you know hopefully just recoding You know required a permit is is critical for the insurance companies And You You Repeat what you said Todd I believe council member Jackson is requesting counsel consensus that she work with staff to develop a request for a local technical amendment from the Florida building code for adding scarification and or recoding to the permitting requirements of the floored building code That you would be doing to Tallahassee It would be a request made to Tallahassee It doesn't guarantee success We don't know what if we unless we ask I mean that just to just to advise the council I can't recall the all the technical details But there is a statutory adoption process That would have to be complied with in order to even propose and adopt this technical amendment So Just to mention that so the the there is a process and a procedure that I would be happy to work with staff on if that's the consensus of counsel Well I'm paying too much in in condo fees So Let's let's do that It is it is making big time difficulties for our residents in the city that are in condos which is a big part of our city and and so in order to provide the services to our city that when these things occur I'm I'm with Mister Wallace I'm with K I Think I think we're going to start seeing foreclosures on condominiums before too much longer And There's already people putting them on the market We just had an assessment of my condo I just had to pay over $5000 for a roof Yeah Your portion My portion Oh My gosh well and things that are happening with the SARS report or resulting in $50,000 assessments for some condo complexes within Florida and that's not even including insurance So You know it's all over the board as far as what is required from those uh structural integrity reports in their milestone inspections and so in any way that we can assist Our owners Here in this area I think that it's a good thing for us to do that I've been here to get to hit Not pretty Was it No It is pocket Yeah absolutely OK I Think uh city Manager You have clarity on the consensus from this item I do and the consensus would be for council member Jackson to work with Anthony and staff towards developing the request for local Technical amendment As stated Thank you Thank you Um That concludes I do have uh two and I overlooked one comment Card It was for item number five I certainly received the card Um Shannon Roberts who I think Did she leave Oh my gosh There you are Yes in as you're you're coming forward I also have one from Peg Ser If You don't mind I need to actually grab something out of my office that I was up here fumbling for um that I think will ex that I my item Uh as you're speaking I am gonna step out mayor for Tim Thank you I just wanted to applaud the counsel for addressing this issue I guess as a resident I was observing uh the opportunities or lack thereof in the last election for the candidates that were running and I felt Uh given this Service to the city and the voters in our city I think it's very critically important that the candidates for the council mayor whatever be afforded an opportunity at Friday fest in particular to have an opportunity to be there and have a chance to reach out to the voters I was gonna ask if the packet would include the three months You know if they're qualifying in August that it would include an opportunity to advance reserve for the months of September October and November only if if that November Friday fest is before Election day I don't know what that would be but I'm just really believe it's so important to our city as a service to our voters to have an opportunity for these candidates and I know Mia We go over the interview with the candidates to have a chance to to be at the Friday fest and the advance pay I would recommend for three months if they so choose and maybe there's a special location in the Friday fest location that that the city staff could put aside for the council candidates And that wouldn't preclude any interference with the other booths I don't know whether that would be possible or not but maybe have a particular area Where that could be a service that the city would be offering the community Thank you Thank you Doctor Roberts Um Pig Did You wanna speak now Or when when we gets back OK All right No problem So We're just waiting on Wes Mayor Pro Tem If there's interest you could call for a short recess if anybody needed a biological break Yes If we wanna take a five minute break No Thank you and I apologize for stepping out Um ser Did You Wanna speak OK I have your Public comment card and it is the item I brought up at the end of the gene agenda that we are the report section of the meeting Um That The special meeting update Uh From the January 28th or 24th special meeting that was held was to address issues uh to of community development Department roles responsibilities and discuss actions proposed to resolve current issues for properties located at Fillmore in Jackson Avenue That meeting Concluded with consensus on uh action items Um I proposed Uh about 12 And from the minutes Uh we ended up approving Uh I believe it was at the Was it the February meeting the very next Meeting or was it march We approve them the minutes There was an update item on the March council meeting So February we didn't Address Anything at that time I believe so January 24th February Uh March It was put on as a uh informational item which included the minutes if I understand and it also included a table that outlined basically broke those action items that we supported Five are down and provided status update and in that meeting I did my best to express that I think that should have been a discussion item something that we should have Uh discussed It shouldn't have been put on an informational item especially going through February And The reason I said That was that not only was it I think supported due to the issues that were uh Raising concerns and the testimony we heard from the public in the long standing nature of these but most importantly to the to the big picture of Cape Canaveral and and that's why the agenda item was more about code enforcement and community development as a whole And uh so so Had that not happened We still we would have had the update but I think in there we discovered um issues with the response as an information only item and since then we are now in the uh April meeting and I want to express again I think this should have been on the agenda so I'm not going to uh give it the time I think it 100% deserves a day but I do wanna use reports as an opportunity to say I don't know how much the councils Been involved with the work of our city administration and team but I certainly have been involved in um I I appreciate the Some of the things that we've done since then by creating for fill more a task list Um we've also uh Accomplished some things since that meeting by receiving the final version of the engineering study And We can and there has been meetings with contractors Um which I had the opportunity to sit in on and communication with Uh staff members uh David Lexie Todd um in in our engineers and tonight we had a presentation from Kimberly Horn the very engineers that did uh the Fillmore study And for me I would have much Uh appreciated much more Um in a presentation from the engineering report from them That's That's My position and why Because It is More important at this stage and the reason why is since then From my observations from my meetings with our city manager And From my communication Uh with the the public and the parties affected here Things have not Uh The the the items I do not believe any of them are what we would say are complete yet Now I know some of them will take longer on the back end But if we go through and we read the informational item We found issues in their And My This is why it's urgent We are the local government This is Fillmore building official side permitting on the Jackson Avenue It's code enforcement side What I've learned and I want to share this with the council because it's important and I firmly believe that if we do not talk about this at every meeting and Set an expectation that we want to as long as this council wants to talk about it I think we should have it at every meeting but The data that was provided to us Is not Complete number one and what was provided their issues of serious accuracy in there Further the BS N on the code enforcement side What I've learned is when we go in there We really cannot trust that data That data is titled and it was brought to my attention after Uh I had a meeting today Literally as public records on the top of BS N a It says public records on the portal And So when the public sees that side of it that's it and When you go in and you look at the attachments and the correspondence that was happening It does not tell the public All the information and I'm not talking about Every little photo and piece of evidence I'm talking about the basic steps of our code development decision tree process the note of so violations that were sent I cannot lean on those and trust that data today And that's an issue And that's an issue that our city manager I I think Has communicated and knows about but we all need to know so that when I say Hey we need to talk about this again what we've been provided actually made me raise the urgency higher because specifically when I go back through And I will Address First My desire to recommend and propose that Getting the parties who can answer these questions Some of them I listed and I did say I would Move forward or consider moving forward The meeting our city manager did reach out when I'm talked about contractors Um city engineers building officials so that we can understand this I did not take action on that I do regret not taking action on that I take full responsibility But I think we need to take that next step With starting with the the The city engineers presenting Report I understand that city staff is intervening providing an executive summary But We requested the engineers to provide the city Council A report and I think As staff hopefully does get that finished That has been ready for a week or two now and that I'm ready to receive that presentation Because the recommendations that I'm seeing in there Are Validating some of the other concerns that had been brought to our attention the entire time And So this per this needs time and energy With the the hope of not only fixing the issues there but overall And The issues around and where I'm Seeing this headed is Um That The City doesn't have There's There's some a few ways they can go but I don't see how we have a position of leverage That's sufficient and The developers the contractor that was involved Has not given me the confidence that they understand the issue And So I'd like to get the councils Weighed in on the engineering report and the steps that needs to be taken The Next issue is our communication on Fillmore Believe Uh David Uh Mr Dickey said last time that he contacted the property owners weekly That was an expectation I think communicated by our city manager And When I go back through and I and I I have not been provided any correspondence that would show that to be true And so and I think it was stated that Do you want me to send you the emails I will I shouldn't have to keep asking for them I I would like to see that And the reason why isn't just a random question It's because the property owners were quick to let me know when they didn't hear back And so I would chime in immediately In in the first couple of years and send it to our city manager and say Hey what's going on here and then it would trickle down And will you follow up then they would follow up and then it would fizzle and again under this circumstance in the severity that I did my best to communicate This should have not slipped through the cracks and so Why are we Saying that we're doing weekly communication and it's not happening And then With all the importance around removing this FPL poll which is a separate issue from the big ones The property owner of where the pole was located Should have been One of the first calls as soon as we were made aware of it And that property owner was not notified from my understanding and we were given the expectation that they would be They were told that we will give you updates Even if we don't have an update the poll was removed Thank you city manager provided it and my questions which I didn't copy All was did we let them know and they were informed After I sent that email However other property owners who the property it's not located on Were not notified And So while that might seem small under these circumstances It's an issue For me and for our ability to Clean up This problem On the Jackson Avenue side statements were made and written and provided in that meeting The documents didn't exist prior to 2022 I Don't know if we're aware of this That is not true That is what was provided to us And I do not understand why that statement was written and made when the meeting prior that the magistrate they were literally presenting evidence There's public records that would show that Um Activity was happening Prior to that date And today we can go into the public Records folder That I Assume Our City clerk responded to back in 2017 18 and we can see records that have been there and existed Yet when we get a 50 consensus support to say provided It's provided in March as an informational item and it stated you we basically have to 2022 There's long standing issues well documented issues with that property on code enforcement on the issues around the maintenance of that property and I found that these hearings were called with the Code enforcement board in 1819 and then they just fizzled And There was no follow up done and so Since then instead of me feeling more confident about resolving this My confidence has lowered Do I still believe absolutely but I don't think it's gonna happen when we don't talk about it And uh uh Few of my notes here just to help Uh drive home Some of the issues was First if we can find a date in the next I would meet Friday II I would meet Early next week In my opinion it would be my request that we try to meet Early next week and I do believe we need to allocate uh a minimum of 2 to 3 hours Her property for Jackson and for Fillmore and we can break them up but It's a half day if we if we get through it Minimum in my opinion but I'm looking at what we accomplish When We come out of this and The process Um It is not understood today had a meeting today We were presented with a decision tree when I followed that process when I look at state law Those questions about Where did we fall down I wanna know where the problems are And today I think we're in a position where we're now going to change our process And So It's really important that I think this council hears and understands I assume we would want to know what process they follow today It's very hard to understand that and we cannot rely on BS N a as a reliable source There is no reliable source since January that we can rely on and what's happening The There were facts about um our statements Excuse me That Well one more thing on the 2022 Did We really not know that those documents existed prior to 2022 We have the same code enforcement officers On the same property and the the concern there is that It was What What was the process that was followed To Go find those records And Why wasn't it provided when it's Literally four lines in a straight line Of management where Code enforcement officer has a seat who was assigned to the case has a senior code enforcement officer to overlook Them who has a community development director to overlook them who has a city manager and we have a city attorney in in in involved in this And Why is the council the ones that are having to step in and catch Glaring issues that Seriously II I haven't had heard a good answer um that that I feel confident in and so The This statements about compliance in the field Um Was Was achieved And the process that we followed to address life safety issues I do not understand that When we go and you First if we could rely on BS N we could That was the goal We could see what happened but it's pretty clear That There's records that there was an issue long standing with this property A new property owner comes into Jackson Avenue invest in that property gets permits requested all the historical issues She sees that there's cases and issues Then she She brings her property in compliance And then when she uh inquires about the properties around here they were said that compliance was in the field And there's no documentation That I I think that shows that are proves that And so What happens The property owner days weeks after gets a notice of violation For issues that Or Not major life safety issues when we go back to the old cases in 1718 those notice of violations that never were resolved from what I see Talked about working to towards uh the the owners making progress but those would have required permits and I can't see where those permits were complete And in that notice of violation it says Fire Hazard fire hazard fire hazard throughout that entire thing our code enforcement officers Created that document And Then when the complaints come in it's not enough Fire number one happened Fire number two happened Today It was not until November Of 2023 which wasn't that long ago until this property Now basically goes back on the clock and it Is not Nothing makes sense to me on how we do not have clear knowledge of that with the same officers on the same time And It's late My My brain's jumbled I've got my list of of questions that I don't wanna work Through and walk away more frustrated because II I can't rely on it I wanna bring this to a head And understand what our process was and address these inconsistencies Um On What is being presented to this council to make good decisions Is not reliable And We're making major decisions for this community And After that moment after we really said no Let's fix this one I have no confidence that all the other properties Are going to be in manner If this is At April 16th We still today do not have just one case one property that we can lean on They're shared drives There's things like red folders that I've learned about there's issues around Using BSA one way we do it this way And Then when I talk to the code enforcement officer they say Well I Don't use it that way and it's two people That's an issue We can fix it But I do not think not putting it on the agenda is the way to fix it And the basics on notifying the property owner at Fillmore The Day of I know the answer I got was that it was sprung on Is Does not make any sense to me And the contractors and their understanding and the approach we're taking based on an engineering report This council has not even been Presented yet I think is a step that goes outside the scope of what we want I'd like to receive the presentation by the end of this week early next week And work through a couple of hours per property These questions And That's That's where I am I've got more because the list keeps stacking but I know it's late And I'm not seeing in the notes Where things are happening in the last thing I'll say on Jackson is that Documents have been said that their public record according to our BS N a website That exist in there that I believe today and I have not seen Can actually verify it actually happened And Then there's documents out in the community that people received That Our system cannot and did not prove and I still think we have lingering ones and it took a long time just to get to today Hours before the meeting they started to become uploaded Talk about perception I could continue to talk about this with the door shut But I I know the pulse of Cape Canaveral We're we're imperfect people trying to do the best we can This has crossed way too far And I am here now once again saying if there are any other items that are getting in the way of this it would be The civic hub and those things that Kim Le Horn did an excellent job But If We Don't fix this issue We're in trouble and so I think it's appropriate to come back together and have A meeting with the parties that we need To understand on Fillmore Avenue and then to address these inconsistencies and inaccuracies And if that's the case Why did that happen This is what the report asked for And some recommendations Because If it happened What Are we seeing different That is going to to change I'm not seeing A timeline that's going to work for for for for me and so we were asked to have patience I've had patients we were asked to have faith Uh I have faith in all in all things that I do I I have faith but what this is We need facts and we need truth And I have not seen it and with the trust in local government going down Day by day This right here Is something that I want to talk about in the in the sunshine openly and I've heard it's mistakes Or oversight and It doesn't make sense to me and so Thank you for your patience to talk through that Can We talk mayor No No II I I'll finish and I I'm here to talk to the council and I'm here to share this with them I'd like to share point of order You pass the 30 minutes that motion to extend or the meetings A Thank you I overlooked it Um I'm I'm finished But I want I wish I would have requested this immediately to be at the front of the agenda Um My request today is first Do We want to extend for 10 minutes I think we need to hear from Mister Dickey Because I will I want to say I would like to make a motion to extend I'll second the motion Motion by council member Davis motion motion by counts Uh a second by Um Council member Jackson Did you move to extend for 10 minutes if I can still can I say 11 o'clock that's fine OK OK a motion to extend till 11 Our 2nd 2nd But Uh motion made by council member Davis a second by Uh Council member Jackson to extend to 11 o'clock City Clerk Council member Davis Council member Jackson Or mayor pro Tim Callum Mayor Morrison Council member Willis for I want to hear from David too But He said Can I talk I said No because I want to to make sure that I've I've finished here and it's late And I Do Ask for your patience but When I can go into BS N And rely on that information That's a good first start That was step one And I would like to To have a meeting to discuss that Um at a minimum and also work through the engineers at Fillmore and my hope was Um The Council would be available and willing to meet in the near future And and if I got anything done it would be to schedule the meeting tonight and and uh and and try to find a date where we can make it work and you had mentioned Friday as well as the following Monday Yes Um either one of those are good for me I can work with my hand OK I would I I've heard I mean I'm I understand what you're saying But You are saying that it's late so in order to to keep on moving forward I would like to hear from Dame Dicky and then we can decide what dates and stuff Yeah Peggy wants to speak on Oh she does I thought that you did not She wanted to wait to I misunderstood that I am very I thought that you rescinded your OK Um So Dave Peg I Wanna Make sure the motion is heard Uh OK I Peg Do You want to come forward Uh thank you again for the opportunity to speak I'd like for everybody to know that I have met with Dave Dickey I have met with Todd Morley and I do feel like we're moving towards the right path The things that have uh since the January meeting slowly started to progress and that's great But The More information I received the more um Questions that are raised Um primarily Don Willis asked who receives the notice of violation He was given the answer counsel was given the answer that the Uh property owner receives the notice of violation and that the tenant is courtesy copied However I'm in possession Of a document that has me listed as the respondent And it has The property owner as courtesy copied Along with that is The um certified letter that it came in So when I asked for those documentations to be sent to me I was sent a different document one that had The property owner listed as the respondent I'm sorry the list it as a respondent and may CC However I've never received that copy So I've had those conversations with them This is all out in the public but my My thought was is that council members should be told that they were given inaccurate information So I We are working towards it We will have another meeting I am happy that we're finally getting some traction But I just wanna make Few statements From the date that I emailed Um Todd and Brian and Dave and said the building is not secured was December 5th of 2022 Was 331 days later before the property was asked to secure their building in writing Was 448 days since we first walked the property until they notice of violation was sent and it was 522 days from the time I said We've had a fire The building's not secured and I need help until a simple half day job of boarding up the stairs We're done 522 days However They walked the property and march 2022 and I received a notice of violation March 28th 6 days for non life threatening issue 612 They walked the property I received an additional notice of violation on 616 Four days So they are able to do quickly but 522 days I'm still wanna know what's the process of why that took so long and I know we're working through it with them Council member Davis Dave if you'd like to speak Please I'm gonna make my comments very brief I'm really dis disheartened by this conversation this evening Mayor Do You remember what you told me Standing in the stairwell this afternoon You said You appreciated being heard Do You remember saying that to me I appreciate the same thing And I don't feel like I'm being heard As You know we've met with you and we are providing responses to all of Peg's concerns that she has raised We haven't finished the document As You know we have not done that yet but we are preparing ourselves to respond to these issues I welcome an opportunity to sit down with the council and go through these line by line Word by word item by item I I I look forward to that conversation And I hope the council as a whole can understand and see what we have been doing and someone earlier today said I feel like the uh the goal posts are being moved That's kind of how I feel as well At Last meeting there was issues and concerns that were brought up and we've been addressing these And now this evening I feel like It the the The sense I'm getting is staff has done nothing or we've dragged our feet or we're not Taking this serious Those are all so far from the truth And So I looked forward to the opportunity to sit down with the council And go over these line by line and issue by issue I think that will be very telling for all of us that that's that's all I have Thank you And I'd like to add my perspective too if I could mayor after last March Council meeting last month I spoke with Peg And She and I exchanged cell phone numbers That led to the next week We met and had a lunch at that lunch She gave me her side of the story She gave me a packet of information which for the first time was very specific data About how she felt Under a code enforcement And She was able to convince me of how she perceived things and I see that perception as a problem I don't want that perception So I took very good notes of it In fact I met with her after they were typed up again a second time just to look at him and say Pig do I have it right She says You got all of it right There's one You need to change so I changed one That became side one of the story and as we know there's three sides to every story So then I've been working with that document with my staff every day since then to get side two of the story And it It's uncovering a lot of things A lot of very interesting things and there's some obvious process changes that have to happen But Once I have side two I'm gonna meet with peg again and show her side too And to together she and I I expect are gonna say OK Now Let's seaside three There's three sides Now We see the third side of the story when that is done when that's identified Now we know exactly what to change and that's the work product that I'm hoping to present to council It will not be ready by Friday But it will be ready soon and I I would say it would be ready before the next council meeting But I would like a chance to that The work product You were you were in my office today with the whole group and we're looking at one item of the six that peg presented to me and it it had to deal with the notice of violations in the same certification number for the certified mailing that was just one item of this page of this half a dozen items That was one item we We spent an hour on that today And we We agreed We need to meet again and go over this again A Matter of fact we set a meeting for with you on Thursday and I Don't know if you've accepted it yet but to continue this discussion on Thursday with code enforcement and me and everybody to finish going through these items Once We finish going through these items I'm hoping we're done on Thursday and I'm hoping to meet with peg on Friday And get that third side of the story so she can see exactly what's going on There are some interesting things happening here I don't think anybody's deliberately doing anything malicious But There's some There's some things that need to change Yes for sure So I don't think we'll be ready for council to hear anything by Friday I'd be glad to meet with Peg cause I think Peg and I are gonna be able to solve this And I think when we're done Peg and I are going to come to this council and say you know this is this is the whole deal This is the real deal This is what needs to change I'd like that to be the process That would be my hope and goal that peg and I can come to you together with a report on this about what we've done I've got confidence in in pig Shawler and she knows this and I've told her this I don't I have complete trust that what she's saying is accurate and real And she has that same confidence in me and I think working with Peg and my staff We're gonna get there We're gonna get to the bottom of all this all of these issues and together I think Peg and I can present something to this council that this council will get go OK that makes sense And That's what I'm asking counsel to do and so that the seven the items that we task Are Can those Will be Which one Several of several of them already have been finished Several of them have been finished Can We end it My hope is that we would go through that list And if that's a by-product of fulfilling one of them and I and I know it is great but from my understanding none of them were completed and that's not true There There are a few of men are completed We've gotten to the bottom of I think that this council will have to stay That it's completed I understand what you're saying But we requested and so It was It was written that things were completed last time and I'm saying it wasn't so maybe We We We say it differently due to the changes My hope is that we can start locking those off and I know some of the ones down at the bottom about recommendations Those do take time I get that But we we met today we I did talk to you I talked to Officer Palmer to at at a chance to talk with uh at Todd uh throughout the week And all those things are true I do appreciate being heard and I want to be heard But after that meeting when I process that you gotta realize I sat down and I'm being read through a monitor stuff I haven't been provided anything and it's fast And I go in and I look and I Look at how much time that's went by I think it's time we Bring the items back so that we can say yes Those were complete so at a minimum it would be good to meet this Friday or Monday to go through What's come what you're saying is complete Cause You mean as a council Yes and to receive the Fillmore Yeah cause we could knock those off the list I don't think it makes sense to get them all done and then present this grand package to say they're all done I think some of them are somewhat dependent And those first ones are the easiest ones They're essentially asking Give us all of the data And We don't have all the data to this day I mean if he had a case city attorney How Would he get all the data and and we've talked about the ability we can't get data that we can rely on And I Don't think it's the answers that I'm hearing on Why These don't exist What I'm saying today that I did not say to you are not acceptable to me Can They be changed Yes I don't think they would be acceptable to this council And so Unless Makes no sense for you to meet in my opinion one on one with each one of us That's an hour per meeting That's five hours Let's all sit down together And go through the action items that were ordered And break it into Fillmore and Jackson Fillmore should start with the engineering report and before any actions are permits or any of that stuff starts pursuing for I want to make sure we can rely on Kimberly horns data Because They were one engineering firm and I Wanna see that It That it makes sense and that it works Today We're not We're not in that position and that's done And so whatever we can knock off that list let's do it and I don't wanna wait till the next meeting This is a major issue It's been a threat It's been a weakness It's been coded Who's gonna fix code enforcement It's been the same Group with 2 to 3 different processes Right And Now We're talking about changing the process again I'm backing up going What's the process we follow And We cannot demonstrate it today That makes me feel pretty hopeless on all the times I've been around Bs N None of it was Really 100% Reliable and accurate And the effect that has on public access and records is awful It had the effect of limiting someone's ability to access records Come by ask me for it She did and what was sent to her Was not That's that's Stop And That's what I want to say to the council I I I have hope I share the same hope as Todd and Dave and all that it's going to fix but we got some hot stuff right here That I am not going to glaze over and go well we'll just focus on this solution Why Did those things happen Why when they had knowledge of those issues Ty brought this to you two years ago I am delighted that you and peg understood but did I fail to communicate Peg's issues when I'm literally forwarding her emails and her words that I failed to communicate the Hearst issues I Don't think I did I think we were all well aware I might have not been taken seriously Or What But That's what the paper Trail says And It's a serious issue As sir but it wasn't treated like that Today April We'll get to it I'm saying whatever else we're working on is not important because we got some red flags And I am not gonna turn my head I Wanna see it through And I Wanna see it fixed And until we can say Going to be SN A You can lean on that data You could those that's data you can make decisions in You This is a us for them that I don't wanna be I've been I've heard it stated It's this We're on the same team It's us versus them Then Why is it that when the public asks for records or when Count Morro Timor any one of us asked for records That The City is the only one that has those records And now I'm learning What was provided at times Wasn't Wasn't actually what happened That's an issue of basic competence One We blame software We Blame the magistrate Get rid of the enforcement board Well We got the magistrate That's what We were told We were hitting this hard back in 2019 not we still today have the same issues on the same property back when it was Dolly's bar the same issues and that P and Z board meeting on Fillmore Avenue where those residents are in here screaming about the flooding on the property and the issues And the building inspections that were done What's the process I'm nervous about the developments that are happening right now Cause I don't understand it And I Don't think it's right And I didn't get in here to You Go along Get along I really came in to say we are on the same team but I'm going to be as direct as I can And it's been Long enough for me To fix these things And so Please Um Include this on the agenda as my request perpetual until these issues are resolved That's a no brainer to me And Of course we gotta keep all the balloons in the air But There are some balloons We should let fall if if that's what's holding it up So Trust is what's At stake right now and its values and as a shepherd of our values and steward we all are I I I It does not make sense to me And I think we are going to need To take Some corrective action in the short period That is Something this council believes is actually going to make a difference And my hope is before any of that happens We can say Council You can lean on the the The data in there is accurate So I'm frustrated I'm Not here uh to Say It's all bad I know some things got done But when I go through the building inspection process that was followed in the report I Don't I don't know what boxes were checking But when I see that vents Are being installed on roofs the gooseneck vents and they're coming to clean out dryer vents because the fire hazards and I'm hearing neighbors tell me that Why was This is a non code compliant Even cover that went on the roof It's gonna be a fire hazard and we did our building official Check that just little stuff to you walking up on the property and why are the power lines overhead And then one neighbor is literally has an issue with the same van on another property and they pull it off and it literally has the instructions stuck in it Where's our Inspector You talk and literally the instructions Talk about fire hazard I mean what's the irony of that Is that The city In building official and inspections People are paying money for inspections Are we delivering I The Evidence I'm Seeing is absolutely not People are paying and being I believe Not treated consistently on code enforcement the way that we responded and could enforcement is not consistent with the unknown procedures that we follow Uh unless it's the decision tree And today I feel a lot better when you can say here it is Here's the process we followed Here's where we didn't where we misstepped And The reason why we messed up and and we're going to fix it But That's it I um I AM Tunnel vision on on this more and more every day because it becomes a bigger issue for me And I do regret not putting this on earlier so that I had a fresh spring to talk about it So thank you all for hearing me out It's taken a significant amount of time and I know all of us in here has lost a lot of sleep probably on this and I know it's not a lack of effort But I'm past the effort part We need results On one of the items and if you do have one Great That should be presented to this council and should have been presented today to say guys we got three of them done Let me Show them to you Thank you Council meeting on Monday Friday Both are available for you if you're willing to meet if you can't I understand OK Can send some dates out and propose But I would settle on Friday and if we can't do Friday we can do Monday Monday OK What is the PM better for you that the afternoon Well it depends because I have I have appointments that I OK Uh OK Um Well I I Think If you have um I suggested date that would work for her time That would work for you Maybe We can work around What's best for you Um and I don't Expect you to necessarily figure that out right now But I can say um I'm willing to meet Friday and Monday We can tentatively say Let's shoot for Monday And Then as council member Davis has a chance she can maybe steer us in a in a time that would work Obviously I would want to make sure Um there's a lot of folks when I talk about all the people in the room for this first one No but Uh That's it I Think city manager would be crucial And Um whoever he thinks he wants there too So Um and I apologize I when you when the council asked for Kimberly Horn to give a report I assumed you meant a written document I didn't understand that you meant you wanted a presented report at a City council meeting I didn't understand that at the time The report was good but we had a report That they presented I think being able to go through the well then uh if if council have you if you've had a chance to read the uh report I would say Read it and I have questions and we can come and talk to the questions together It's And If Kimberly horn could be there We can ask him to be there It'll help it It's not part of their scope It wasn't part of their They might charge more for that is what we're saying I would I would say that they will charge more for that They'll charge their hourly Um if it's of any use uh If There's a collection of questions specifically about the report that can be addressed I have I can Do my best to answer it Their report is objective and observational in nature as is any other engineering report so nothing that um There's essentially no extrapolation that can be made from the report What's IN the report is what was observed and documented from an engineering point of view Um so I I'm happy to try to speak to it prior to reaching out to Kimberly Horn But if a presentation is what's recommended there will also be additional time required which means additional hourly rates to prepare that presentation come here including travel time be here present it answer questions just to kind of Lay it out What that looks like from a budgeting point of view Thank you And I'm looking forward to whatever you would present I just think it would be crucial to have them here and I think it'd be worth the money Uh to to do that Um As far as The Uh former city engineer John Picard Can can we Ask him to be here as well They ask Yeah Yeah It would help if we had a date and a time though for both engineers Well mon Monday would be great Afternoon morning Evening I think we're all saying to be determined Um Me to be here Cannot be here Monday Even OK I think Monday Uh we can still meet um without the city attorney And we uh I will keep meeting with we'll set the next meeting until till you can show up Um but I I wanna see US make progress here because I think we got some bad things happening And I think to be going on a long time Its bad people not saying it's bad processes but the outcome The result is bad It's putting people's life in danger There's life safety issues There's flooding issues We're saying we're doing things we're not backing up that we're actually doing those things And It's been very difficult to get records in this city And so I will come in on Monday If we can work through the issues without the city attorney That's great Uh You would suggest that you are here For Yeah I mean it's kind II I would I would suggest based on my last statement I probably want to be here Um and I think the council probably would I mean but this your call um I'm available Monday Except in the evening I'm available Friday Um After 12 Tuesday morning Available all day Wednesday Um but Monday evening And OK Time Monday Are you available what time in the afternoon Of all 330 Earlier would be better like I I One One certainly For one I mean Monday Monday at one That's the the 22nd on Monday with who we have Um April 22nd at 1 P.m. I would love for our city attorney to be here I know it It limits us Right uh in in in some of the things that that we can do But I think we can make a lot of progress around those issues We can understand The Engineering report work with Lexi and the team get get our hands around that Um We have consensus mayor to authorize the additional expenditure to have Kimberly Horn there to make a presentation That would be to include creating a presentation prior so it would be more than just their time spent traveling to and from the city and time here and I would need to let them know that As soon as possible so they have time to prepare it If They're available if they're available if they're available no matter what If you're willing to en enable to help And having them As as a phone resource You may not be needed I I didn't I didn't say I Just think it would be valuable To to understand the words that they wrote From their observations Now if we wrote that report Or the executive summary I'd want to talk with us But their approach And and Lexi I think you're We're lucky to have you to be in in your uh credentials and in position there's no doubt that we will get Answers And So If if you don't think they're needed under your pressure then then we don't need to move down that Um I I don't Lexie was prepared to give Um a a breakdown of a Um more In layman's terms she was working on that document She probably even has it ready today and We can go with that Like to start before we start spinning Who knows how much money I would rather start with Let's see Let Let me make a suggestion on the finance side of it If This is gonna be some type of set of meetings like the mayor says a process possibly taking engineers and whatever I really don't believe we'd have to affect the normal budget I will tell you right now mayor This is and this is what this money is for I have $230,000 in ARPA money that could be used now I know it's not gonna cost that much But if we can give Name I'm just making a suggestion on what this process is Engineers involved Lawyer involved uh the the meetings whatever Let's give it a name like a project in we we could set up a GL account and we'll charge well we don't have to set up a check account we could We could use our the ARPA money What That's This is like community needs but I mean it's an expert This is an important so what's that Yeah It's an expert report Why wouldn't the council want to hear from the expert that wrote the report Oh Yeah that that's what all you know due respect to Lexi summary I mean it's an expert report what they hear in person right or on the phone to answer questions Council ask questions they should hear from the author of This Expert report and the report is already paid for correct That was for proof Anything else I'm saying anything outside of that money well spent in my humble opinion Having dealt with a lot of experts and my day I'm just saying anything outside that that becomes an additional expense These are the things That The City could benefit from in a financial sense That's all I'm saying Otherwise we cut into our existing budgets are contingency whatever So Just the suggestion mayor I would encourage the council to to make this meeting is as productive as possible to come prepared with specific questions if you have specific life health safety issues that you have I know you mentioned some some vent issues Um and we'll have our building official there and I think you might find some of these issues that you've heard about may not be city issues They may be private property and developer owner issues but that That's why I'd like I'd like to cut through a lot of that if we can Um but please Please come prepared and we'll we'll um we'll we'll work work through the list one by one Looking forward to it The life safety was more related to the Jackson Avenue We can we can have our fire marshal there I don't know if you remember I did draft a memo after speaking to the fire marshal the building building official and the city code enforcement Addressing this exact issue Um so we can certainly be prepared to respond to that Uh to that memo Look forward to it Um IN the spirit of preparation just to clarify the engineers who are here tonight Uh neither of those individuals is the engineer who prepared the report Thank you Mayor It's just a workshop meeting or a special meeting Um Special meeting I I want the ability to take action Who was the engineer Did His name is Kyle Cosby He still works for Kyley horn He's just neither of the individuals who are here today And I totally knew that Just like just so when you see a new face when they do show up to the meeting that you're not like Wait a second That's not the guys who came tonight Yeah OK Pile Cross Cosby Correct OK My last question If we really um What Authority does The council have To Compel someone to meet with us Um Subpoena Investigate for that so Theoretically Yes I mean if the if it's a formal um you know investigation Um I believe the charter may mention subpoena powers I'm not I can't recall off the top of my head Some charges do but To enforce it It would require um a court Council doesn't have the ability to enforce and compel attendance other than issuing a subpoena and then Having to go argue uh to a judge that you that the attendant should be compelled Um You know And in some instances you would likely issue administrative subpoena and then you would get some sort of um Motion for protective order from the person that Um who who receives the subpoena If They don't wanna attend Thank you I uh I did I was re reading in that That makes sense that the judges and and uh would For enforcement need to get involved In practice and um I I say that uh and ask that because When We're dealing with people that can't be reached or uh former or this like the former city manager Um It's To try and Figure out What happened There was a lot of responses of former No longer here You Um as I understand it's this It was that engineer I don't know you'll have to ask them Go back through all those questions on Fillmore The answers that I read that we provided to those property owners Was Basically we We can't help you or you're gonna have to wait and see And so Talking to those and there's people that are not coming to the meanings and they want to meet One on one and off the record And I don't wanna do that either And so and that's I The contractors And so Or the contractor Um That was it Um Monday works Uh it sounds like it to do something in the afternoon I have that we have a special meeting planned for April 22nd at 1 P.m. and there's council consensus for that mayor Thank you Um if that needs to change I think we have a a process now that can help Uh 1 P.m. April 22nd Sir Okay City clerk Do You need a formal vote on that or consensus work for you Consensus is fine OK All Right Well Thank you uh any other things or reports Um Mr mayor um On uh Let me get back to my notes here on March 28th attended the cocoa beach Uh Chamber of commerce legislative wrap up And discussion occurred on House Bill 1365 Um regarding the Restrictions on homeless camping on city properties Um And there's there's a lot of discussion on it but I did pick up some additional information that I wanted to just pass out to everybody Just because we we may be forced to do something sometime in the future and I think any information we can have In Our back pocket might help us in the future So Thank thank you We'll review Anything else Council member Willis No It's time to go any other council members City staff I have one update here quick I'll make it very quick Um I will be attending the Florida Department of emergency management Uh terrorism Training this week There's a workshop going on in Viera So I will be attending that Just so you know Thank you The City attorney Thank you all to one point Um I've been asked by the Florida League of cities to write a friends of the court brief and a very important appellate case for the US Um Appellate Court in Atlanta regarding um Public Um Public input during council meetings So if the council doesn't mind I may use city of Cape Canaveral Um and drafting this brief I I'm I'm just asking the that councils OK with that just just in case I I need to give examples or something like that But Thank you for Obviously You could but I appreciate it Yes it is Hopefully It's a positive example Well I'm not just in case asking I'm just you know Just in my capacity and experience over the years as city attorney I mean that's May need to rely on some of that But I may mention um some of my city clients That's pretty cool I guess to right Yeah Yeah Yeah I've done that and several occasions on behalf of the league and the International Municipal League Um so You know it's a nice privilege but it's an important issue Hopefully send it to us Mayor I'd like to make an announcement today Our Zach I Cos Was interviewed on N PR Um along with a Harvard professor and they were talking about resiliency And It is a um it It's just it It's nice to step back and really Sometimes We have to focus on Getting our hands Dirty day to day stuff but it's also It's important to kind of celebrate those wins that we have and and and Zach and Lexi bring a lot bring a lot of wins with them And Um I'll let you know when we uh have a specific date on when that piece is going to be run on N PR Uh it's not a state says that this is a national N PR piece Um so it's very cool for the city and uh Do You have anything to add to that Lexy it'll air on WFM about halfway about mid May So WFME is the larger station out of Orlando It's not out of our little local hub WFIT um So really cool And Uh I'll just add that that's like a professional goal of mine So I'm a little jealous but also super excited and proud of Zach And What is it on What's the It's on uh resilience policy infrastructure Um some of the stuff that's going into um just you know in every level of government what's needed to to make sure that we're we're ready for for for future ready ready for the future What was the date on that No no date yet but they're looking a T mid May and it'll be out of WFME which I think is 90.7 So let me just plug that again Mid May WFME 90.7 Anyone who's listening Thank you Yes OK any other Comments Thank you all So no Needing adjourned