##VIDEO ID:maN-6yAG81Y## everyone today is October 15th 2024 it is 6:00 p.m. and we are at the Cape Canaveral city council regular meeting at the city hall council chambers 100 PK Avenue Cape Canaveral Florida I call this meeting to order council member Jackson would you please lead us in the pledge thank you I of alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you city clerk please call the role council member Davis council member Jackson here mayor protim Kellum here mayor Morrison here council member Willis thank you three of the five council members City attorney we have a quorum and we're okay to proceed yes sir okay thank you first uh item here is the approval of agenda as written or with amendments Council any any changes here that we'd like to see as far as order this is does this include the consent agenda uh yes if there was any I think reordering removing um adding uh that'd be the time so if there's anything in the consent agenda I would like to pull um on the consent agenda item number four oh pulling no I'm sorry we'll pull that in a little bit okay thank you do you want to remove any anything from the agenda item number four oh that's the consent agenda well yes I mean yep number four is bsna software uh we yeah when we get to the consent agenda if you want to pull it to discuss but do you want to I guess remove it entirely all together and not that we haven't done that but um and then there's any reordering um I would like to reorder my uh item number 11 for the discussion I'd like to move that below items 12 and 13 so bump uh hurricane Helen relief efforts up uh to and and move that if that's okay so basically move item number 11 to the bottom take that up last um no move 11 move 12 and 13 up and move 11 to the bottom so I guess swap just when we get done with 10 go to 12 do 13 and then come back to 11 that's okay any other changes seeing none we need a motion to make that change I'll make a motion that we approve the agenda with the change of 11 number 11 to be after 13 I'll second got a motion by mayor per Tim Kellum second by council member Jackson to approve the agenda as written with the change of 11 below 13 any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson four mayor proom Kell for mayor Morrison for council member Willis okay this time we're going to go to the presentation and interviews portion of the meeting before doing so I just want to make sure I understand council member Willis is going to be attending virtually he's trying to get on the meeting as we speak okay and I'm not sure why he's not able to uh I don't know why he's not able to be heard but he just texted me so I don't I'm If he if he is trying to be on I'm fine with waiting so that he can do you see his name I do not okay so I just texted him to please join again I do see Paul a Willis unless he's signed in under her I don't know okay well I I guess there's the only thing is if he had any we haven't voted on anything other than changing the order of the agenda and I think we're okay to proceed with the presentations and interviews um and if there's any requests to stop or pause that you get from council member Willis please interrupt and I want to make sure he I believe AV is trying to work with him okay thank you okay so we'll go ahead and proceed to the presentation to Financial Services Department of certificate of achievement for excellence and the financial reporting fiscal year ending September 30th 2023 uh I have a a presentation up here um Finance director yes I would like to present this with you and before we do so I just want to read here that uh the government of Finance Officers Association has recognized the financial services department for excellence and financial reporting by awarding the certificate of achievement for excellence and financial reporting for its annual comprehensive financial report the certificate of achievement is the highest form of recognition in the area of governmental accounting and financial reporting and its attainment represent a significant accomplishment by government and its management the acfr was judged by an impartial panel to meet the highest standards of the program including demonstrating a constructive Spirit of full disclosure to clearly communicate its Financial story and motivate potential users and user groups to read the acfr the gfoa is a nonprofit professional association serving approximately 17,500 government Finance professionals and this is the 20 9th consecutive year the City of Cape Canaveral financial services department has received this prestigious award for excellence and financial reporting this award exemplifies the dedication knowledge and professionalism of the financial services department staff Mr city manager Finance director congratulations for the 29th consecutive year if you have a few comments please do we can I present you while you're coming up I I just want to say thank you to John and your team for continuing this tradition uh this excellent work on behalf of your team should give all of our citizens and residents a a great assurance that uh we operate our finances in a very transparent and accountable way thank you John [Applause] I just want to say a few words this there's a lot of hard work that goes into want to give special attention I know she left my Deputy Finance director left but she was my staff here they cross the [Applause] got him good all right thank you and congrats okay so now we are at the presentation of the Florida International University certificate of online course completion to council member K Jackson on August 13th 2024 council member K Jackson completed an online course of study cyber security leadership and strategy professional education program from the Florida International University Steph J green School of International and public affairs through the Jack D Gordon Institute for Public Policy state funded cyber security training for public sector leaders and managers the local government cyber Security Act became effective July 1st 2022 and imposes several requirements on Florida counties and municipalities in responding to cyber security and ransomware incidents the ACT requires all local government employees with access to the local government's Network to comp complete certain basic cyber security training within 30 days after commencing employment and annually there after since there before 2022 the city has been and continues to remain vigilant and its cyber security compliance through individual training via cyber Florida and the University of South Florida tabletop training exercises for each department director nob4 security awareness training with simulated fishing platform for all users and continual cyber security improvements to include encrypting city data strengthening user policies automating updates to ensure the latest security measures are in place and designing the new city it architecture to defend from outside and inside attacks the city applauds these efforts and now I would like to present the certificate of completion to council member K Jackson council member if You' like to come forward I'll present it to you thank you e [Applause] council member Jackson if you'd like to say a few words well I think this is important in our day and age um it's why I started getting a an interest in this for our city we are a small City but we're a very strategic City in history with the space program and so our cyber security is very important we are out there and everyone knows about us and so to ensure that we can minimize taxpayers dollars because cyber attacks cost taxpayers so I felt like this was an important thing to pursue for our city in order to work with staff and be able to look at legislation and making sure that we're safe in the Cyber realm thank you thank you [Music] okay and last of presentations is interview City resident Harry ruffell for consideration of appointment as the city's representative on the Space Coast Transportation Planning organizations citizens advisory committee Mr Ruel are you here please come forward our City attorney might have a few question good evening information in your application true and correct it isled explain to the city council why you would like serve on this well I've lived in this city for two years but I've lived here in Florida for 13 for 11 years I'm a walker so I'm out always walking uh Don Willis I met him at the uh coffee with a cop and uh I see a lot of things and he became a point of contact for me to bounce things off of like uh Road issues and sidewalk issues and crosswalk issues and stuff and uh he asked me to come and participate with the uh the TPO and I would love to do that I my wife and I have truly enjoyed uh living in this community and the uh it's it's it's just a wonderful place and I just would like to make sure that the city continues to be a part of this overall Space Coast process and when Don asked me about the citizens committee that's made a lot of sense to me so thank you Council any questions yes mayor Pro Tim Kellum hi Mr Rael um well thank you for um stepping up um you got big shoes to fill but it seems like you have the dedication and and the wherewithal to to fill those shoes and to do what's best for our city so thank you for stepping up and um we'll welcome you to be part of our team absolutely thank you in fact yeah it's actually with the Kyle's departure one of the things that fell through the cracks is uh we were also going to look at perhaps my being involved with the local uh Cape canaval Road and there's like a committee that's involved with the uh Sheriff's Office and everything else and I certainly would like to follow up on that as well if uh if the council should decide that I'm going to go forward so thank you you council member Jackson I really don't have any questions I uh you have an interesting background have a lot of federal service um so I'm sure and have been to a lot of cities so I'm sure you've you've gotten a lot of exposure to the way things are set up and that kind of thing and can work with our um our situation and make things safer and that kind of situation so thank you what thank you for standing up I really don't have any questions except for that are you glad you're not in Sarasota this week yes I used to live in Northport so uh we took a pretty significant hit during Ian and in fact we had just moved here and the day after the hurricane I was on my my way over to make sure my house was okay which it was not and uh it's well our our hearts go out to our family and friends on the Gulf Coast so if you relay that to them for us here in the city of cap canaval I would appreciate it absolutely yeah I have many friends and we still have family over on that Coast so absolutely hopefully they're all safe they are they are Absolut very good well thank you and we appreciate you your interest in this yes I I just want to Echo that and say thank you um very fortunate to have you happy you connected with council member Willis to uh make that that possible um your experience I think is also going to help with the port every decision the port makes it impacts our our traffic in our community and our deputies do a a great job uh but there's things outside of their scope that can just make it better and easier and that's what the TPO is working on so delighted to have a resident there representing and and trying to make Cape Canaveral better and safer so thank you absolutely yeah because I've I've pinged them on things as well so it's I'm I'm interested and uh I this is kind of roadway related but I would like to compliment the city's uh lawn maintenance and people like that uh I walk on uh North Atlantic and was out there one day here the last couple of weeks and uh all of a sudden I heard a tractor trailer literally lock up his brakes because he didn't see until the last minute the stop sign at Shorewood in North Atlantic because the trees and the overhang had happened and I mentioned it in passing to one of the crews out there and they looked down there and they said oh my God yeah we can't see it and that day they actually went down and took care of that so compliments to your to your staff that's out there doing the job thank you for sharing that with us and thank you again for your willingness to serve do you have any other questions for us not at all we have an item on the agenda coming up during consent to formally appoint and I hope that happens so thank you thank you very much okay Council that concludes presentations and interviews at this time we'll go to the public participation portion of the meeting before we start just want to remind if anyone came in and you do intend to speak thank you for all who have please fill out a card here invite it to our Lieutenant here and we'll make sure that you're heard I already have some um and those of you listening online if you do intend to speak uh we'll ask that you raise your hand before doing so I am actually uh looking down now and see that council member Willis is on council member Willis just like to do a test and make sure you can hear us and we can hear you council member Willis it doesn't show that you're muted I see you're on it's green I would say um at any point you want to interrupt uh we won't take offense to it just to make sure that that you're heard I'm not hearing him we sent him a link to um the Box cast stream so he he wasn't able to hear and he then tried I think he's joining by phone okay I really don't know what the problem is we tested it and worked earlier so okay so yeah it looks like it's okay well oh okay I might have just muted him I think you can control from the back if so I I apologize but with that council member Willis if you happen to get through um and you see a good opportunity please uh let let us know when you're here um with that public participation the first card I hear have is Mr John Benton John are you here okay M Shan and Roberts Dr Roberts I should say thank you and yes sometimes I'll Overlook if it's aend item I think this is the right time thank you Shannon Roberts 703 Salon Shores Drive here in Cape canaval first of all I want to thank the staff and the council FPL and Spectrum for your incredible service during the storms uh the updates were so helpful and uh your care was very obvious I think throughout the city so I want to thank you so much for that um the primary reason I'm here to speak is because of a forum uh some of you who've lived in the city for a while may know that the League of Women Voters of the Space Coast have been U very kind to sponsor a candidates Forum each year that we have an election uh that you know has several candidates and I did want to bring to the council's attention as well as the community's attention that we're going to have um a forum this year for the mayor or candidates which includes West and Angela Raymond um this will be on Monday October the 21st from 6:30 to 8:00 uh the library is the scene of the Forum and the doors will be opening at 6:15 and I really encourage each of you to come because it's a great opportunity to hear the candidates speak about what they want to uh present for the city for the coming year gives you a chance to ask questions hear their answers and so forth so I just wanted to make sure you all knew about I've left some flyers out here on the table so you can pick that up but again it's at the cap canille library on Monday October 21st 6:30 to 8:00 doors open at 6:15 great opportunity for you ask questions hear them present their agenda for the coming years and u i really encourage you to come thank you so much thank you Mr John Venton well we know what I'm here for is I'm here for the re for the code reduction hearing that Mr randles when he was the mayor said that he knew I didn't live in that warehouse and that I lived on Tyler and somewhere along the line he changed his mind and didn't want me to and I would say after 10 people have been fired here your city manager and Mr Mayor randles lost his first election in 31 years because of what he did because he trespassed me for holding the sign in front of the courthouse in front of the city hall here judge Crawford asked me to bring the sign here because you guys caused a problem and he also said that if I had a sign that said I was railroaded that he may hold it why would you stick up for Kevin man a deacon at the Presbyterian Church up here that came in and testified I would live in the warehouse when his son was living in the warehouses next door and he was on the sex sight don't you know when these deacons you can't trust them they're raping our children and he's in here lying to you and you give me a ticket for living in the warehouse I got a condo for 25 years half block from the beach I don't live in my warehouse and I got a cop in the unit next to me you're just doing it because the church votes for you you lose your votes you wouldn't get elected you don't want to why would you let him do that I wasn't bothering anybody up there the cop was right there and y'all did an investigation you ain't got nothing to say do you everybody wants to stick up for Kevin man and the board and the board chairman on that code board Mary Russell I understand that she went to the church Presbyterian Church down in Coco Beach he's a Presbyterian Church up here a Deon she knew who he was she knew her his son was living in that warehouse but she laughed and mocked at me and referred to me as a cookie that crumbled after I te after he testified against me you got to let me defend myself she's not going to do anything to a pedophile groomer like Kevin he groomed his son to live in that warehouse that makes him a groomer what do you what do you think he's going to if his grandchildren go to this school over here what do you think's going to happen the kids will probably tease them might have a incident up there then one of the other kids might go after his kids or they go after them and 10 people's been fired over this I'm surprised they haven't gone and got Kevin for this lose your job Mr randles won't come in here and have anything to say won't defend himself why would you change your minds after you said you would give me a code reduction hearing the very first council meeting I came to because you don't want to play that recording of that that cord code board meeting yeah just oh yeah somebody told me one of the cops down here in Melbourne or some place said John said that you weren't saying anything because you're taking the fifth don't forget your phone sir thank you very much mayor yes um Mr Willis says he can hear us now I don't know if you want to try and do a little test with him please um council member Willis let me um do I need to unmute yeah you could try that I think they helped me out thank you okay council member Willis U mayor when I went back to talk to Mike uh another alternative thing would be is if if you one of you want to put your phone on and he could he could talk back to you through the mic I mean and he he could participate then but um although we could hear him back on the computer back there it won't it won't push out it won't push out and so it's a hardware thing so so if you want to do that um you could call he could call one of your phones and you could put it in your mic and he then you could open up the phone and he could participate if that's okay what I would suggest um we could just have Lisa if you wouldn't mind coming up to the admin table just get him on the phone um and make sure it's loud enough that you can hear him if he wants to comment but if it's too loud it'll create a weird echoing in here so keep it at minimal volume thank you well I think we can council member Willis Lisa's calling you if you can hear [Laughter] me didn't know if you was sitting there L we're calling yeah that's OD this is Don Willis we're calling his phone yeah we're calling his phone on and he could he could talk back to you through the mic then but um although we could hear him back on the computer back there iton it won't push out that's the recording of what I just said everything's recorded in here okay let me you hear me call you could put in your mic and he you open up the phone can you hear me now yes is that John right there because I hear what I would suggest Mike the recording is playing back in the PA system in here that was bizarre that's what I was volume we got you on mic we're going to do a test to make sure that we can hear you go ahead D good evening everybody I'm member Willis Lisa's calling me you can hear me no Lisa can you hear me we can hear you so then whose phone's ringing all right I'm here Don are are you on the phone or are you on the webinar but we can't hear you on that okay hold on one second we're hearing the recording go ahead Mr Willis isn't technology wonderful yes when it works and it does now so that's great we hear you loud and clear council member Willis we're in the uh the public participation portion of the meeting can you hear us okay we're going to test to make sure that we could hear you so he couldn't hear me he's got a delay ask him to mute himself on his phone but we're delayed on his side Don can you mute can you mute yourself on your end and just turn it on when you need to talk he's about 10 seconds behind us let's maybe take a a recess I mean we'll finish public participation did he have anything he needed to say I think we did the interview and that would have been the only thing really yeah or can we proceed with public participation for now and then maybe we can get this resolved um thank you for for trying and we are at uh Miss Peg schaer uh you did select uh item number eight um and an update on the discussion item would you like to speak now miss schaer everybody for the opportunity to speak um glad to see everybody and our beautiful city made it through so well from the hurricane although I know some better than others but um as far as I know from the most part no loss of life here in the City of Cape canaver and that's a big big win um I wanted to just State my support in um agenda item number eight I think allowing for the installation of rooftop amenities and multif family mixed use and commercial buildings is going to be a great asset to our city there's a number of rooftop amenities located throughout bouard County I'm not sure that we have any here in Cape Canaveral yet but the ability to keep up with the Joneses um as far as offering that for our residents and tourist um I'm looking forward to so anyways thank you thank you for putting that on the agenda and I and I uh offer my support in that um when it comes to item number 13 I would like to First hear what the update is and then um if possible speak again afterwards sounds good thank you okay thank you Mr Bill skanner hello my name is Bill Skinner manager and a homeowner in Cape canaval Mobile Estates I'd like to address this to the city manager for the life of me since you knew about the flooding issue since Friday morning why I received no help from you or anyone else in the city with the exception of the mayor I was at witsend with no help from you and the responsibility of 46 homes I thought you had the responsibility of the citizen I have some pictures if you'd like to see although I'm sure you've seen them all I was asking for was a big pump or to point me in the right direction of getting one I pumped for 36 hours with two rental pumps from Home Depot to alleviate the flooding not just from our property but the runoff from two adjoining properties we still have standing water with the thread of mosquitoes to do nothing for this emergency and hang us out to dry literally in which at least 10 residents could not leave their home is disgusting there are three issues that you as city manager need to address that were brought up and swept under the rug 5 years ago with the city two of which are code violations run off at the south side of my property run off at the North north side of my property with the north side having right now about 70,000 gallons of standing water and the city's drainage ditch which was supposed to be maintained and dredged which never happened which caused a good portion of the water problem with us mosquit control help I'm getting none I could go on but I know I only had 3 minutes which you couldn't even give me thank you Miss scale Clark hi my name is Gail clar I'm a resident at Cape canav Estates I've had property there for over 17 years and I want to thank you by the way for the first time someone has actually come by to check out our situation mayor um we've never had a problem before the 17 years when the road got redone we started have a little bit more issues because the drain is at the end here and the end there but nothing in the middle so we get water coming there also mango Manor water comes in off our side on the other side that that that water comes in off that side and the biggest thing is our drain cannot drain because the canel has not been maintained for years I actually had a piece of property there at lot 30 um I invested a lot of money in it and then 2022 I came here and brought up a situation it wasn't as bad as it is now but it was bad and I told them how it was a bad situation for the elderly because we do have ambulances there quite often I hate to say it I'm one of the younger ones um and um actually my my neighbor Lou Drake um she also had put some text out to um Todd on tell them the situation of the water and stuff like that and how emergency vehicles could not get can get through well we had this incident and guess what the EMTs there was just the other day didn't take their vehicles down there they walked with a stretcher to get this person back so it is a safety issue for the elderly especially when we got some older people in the'80s I'm they God I'm only in my 60s and um basically it's definitely a problem with the town if they dredged this because it's just well not maintained you got all the Oaks that have been going over it they haven't been trimmed all those leaves that have built up through the years that our pipe goes out that water's there it ain't going out and then you got all this other stuff coming in it's doing a lot of damage and it's a safety issue also I don't know how much property has been Dam Dage between air conditioners underneath what's going on with the pipes and everything else and it really I didn't get affected cuz I was on top of the hill if if I get it it just it's underwater completely um cuz I moved because nothing was happening and at this point cuz I knew this was going to eventually happen and I'm hoping this time the town steps up and do tries to protect it senius before there's a situation where emergency people cannot get through and people's the people's only thing that they have is going to be gone and that way we don't have to go after femur too I appreciate your time and I really hope you take some real thought on this and try to correct our problem I would appreciate it thank you thank you if you filled out a card and I haven't called and you do intend to speak please come forward or raise your hand and those of you who are online please raise your hand you'd like to speak seeing none we will go ahead and close public participation and uh move to the consent agenda the consent agenda has six items on on it do we intend to pull any council member Jackson I believe you said item four yes um using my new certification I got I think we need to move this to a different meeting um City attorney this is item number four for the the software what would be the correct process for us to move that to a meeting but due to the fact it's about system implementations if if the council is going to have detailed questions regarding like the system implementation and um you know specifications of the software Florida law does permit um the city council to do that um outside of a public meeting because cyber security information is confidential and exempt on the Florida law so you know to the extent the council's ready to vote on this tonight you certainly can do that but if you want to have a detailed discussion regarding the technical aspects of it then uh I would suggest that you defer it and then hold um you know a separate meeting under um the cyber security provision in the statute and that's what I would like to do okay so date certain or just postpone if if it's the council's desire to have that discussion then um even at this stage you could just um vote to remove it and um then the clerk's office would have to follow up and and make the appropriate arrangements with the council um to hold that um separate discussion on this item thank you I was uh I had a chance to speak with the city manager about it I wanted to maybe add to that and see if bsna could could be there um and and present and I think that that's a possibility city manager to have bsna and and in that in addition to separating the meeting and and asking implementation yeah I think it's a reasonable request John we can get our count rep there right or at least virtually if we did mayor then we would just have them somehow come in remotely so they could be speaking to us um possibly on since we're this won't be in front of the public because of security measures or whatever uh possibly in a conference room upstairs where we have the TV and they may may be able to chime in that way but yeah the answer is yes we could we'll figure out something so so we could have them engaged thank you okay uh mayor per Tim Kellum any concern with that removing it no I I agree I think we should have a more questions and answers about it okay so item number four are there any other items that we'd like to remove or for discussion we're approving the Amendments we've got a resolution appointing two of our business and economic development board members we've got an interlocal agreement on a regional op opioid settlement funds um we're pulling uh bsna uh off the engine and we've got the appointment from Mr Harry RFA who interviewed with us and appointing the economic uh community and economic development director Brianna so as the city's voting representative on the Space Coast TPO technical advisory committee council member Willis is it is he he just T vot okay he doesn't want to pull any uh that's okay he's on here council member Willis we're going to remove item number four in entirely and then uh items 1 2 3 5 and six that that's fine I couldn't understand the reason for pulling for okay um City attorney you want to help um councilman Willis uh the request was to have a more detailed discussion regarding um you know D data information and certain aspects regarding that software program so there is a cyber security confidentiality provision on the Florida Statutes that um allows those types of uh discussions to occur in a different format outside of the public and that's the request I'm fine with that okay any further comments council member Willis no not now thank you Mr Mayor I'll make a motion that we approve the consent agenda 1 two 3 five and six pulling second got a second or a motion by uh mayor protim Kellum and a second by council member Willis any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis four okay cons agenda items 1 two 3 3 five and six pass 40 we are now on the public hearing portions of the meeting we have three of them tonight item number seven which is a resolution in number uh resolution number 20244 related to the live local act property tax exemption Mr city manager do you want to have the City attorney read the city yes uh City attorney the resolution okay certainly uh resolution 20 24-14 this is a resolution of the city council of the City of Cape canaval bvar County Florida related to the live local act property tax exemption providing that pursuant to the authority granted to the City of Cape canaville in accordance with Section 1961 978 so paragraph 3 Florida Statutes the City of Cape canille has elected to not exempt certain real property under Section 1961 19783 D1 little a Florida Statutes from adval taxes providing for the repeal of Prior inconsistent resolution severability and an effective date um basically um under the live the council very familiar with the Liv local act there is an avalor tax exemption for affordable housing uh multif family projects that qualify for an adval tax exemption um if they're built and um there is an optout provision for um multif Family Apartments complexes underliv local that are 120% of the Ami adjusted median income um which um you know would still potentially qualify but local governments have the ability to opt out of that avor tax exemption for those kind of live local uh apartment projects that qualify bravard County uh and bravard County School District have both uh entities have afforded themselves of the opt out so um Florida law requires if the council as the C City of Cape Canaveral jurisdiction wants to opt out a resolution will need to be adopted by at least 2third affirmative vote of the city council thank you City attorney 2third vote with a four is still well three three out of four so I guess it um is there any issue there with four of the five present being that changes the super majority go ahead and have the discussion I want to take a look at that but I I think it's just it's 2third that are that are present but I'm going to double check thank you city manager any comments you need to add I think this is consistent with the community's desire we've this community recently did not support the adorm tax abatement program for businesses in the city and when it was up for reauthorization um generally the feeling is that we want to keep our taxes dollars flowing in and I think this is consistent with that that we this doesn't stop a live local act project from coming but it means we do not have to give up the tax revenue that would come from it thank you Council uh this is a public hearing item are there any technical questions uh before we go and hear from the public and then we can bring it back and discuss it for City staff have discussion so I just had a statement on it okay we'll get through any questions at this time is I have a couple of questions the deadline is it was it the end of the year to act on this um it's it's based on tax year so yes I mean in terms of um since there are no pending live local projects that would qualify in keep Canaveral MH at this time there are no applications to my knowledge now would be the time to do it because it's putting the exemption in place before um a project would even go through the pipeline for approval so from that standpoint this this action item is timely um because there is is a there is a grandfather provision for those projects that have already qualified so and again it's it's it's if the council takes action tonight there's also a renewal process this item would have to come back to the council for Renewal after two after two years I think initial approval and then every year thereafter so you know this this is um you know based on T you know the avalor tax Schedule okay and two readings I just thought there was something about a deadline it's a one reading one reading of the resolution and the deadline again is you know we're in we just commence the start of of a new new tax year right so okay um you now's a good time to take this under consideration thank you okay this is a public hearing item you didn't I don't think needed to need to fill out a card we do ask you please state your name and address if you come forward if anyone would like to speak on public hearing item number seven resolution 20244 and I should before I go to the public check with council member Willis do you have any questions before we go to the public no sir thank you we'll bring it back for discussion in just a sec public if anyone like to come forward and speak on this item it is now open for public hearing and those of you online please raise your hand we'll unmute are you coming forward or coming in oh we're on public hearing item number seven live local yes is that the one you'd like to speak with yes we are in the public hearing portion now is a perfect time to come forward or should I just think you can come forward and correct me if I'm wrong afterwards thank you I think it's just learning from you um I know that we've been talking about affordability affordable housing in the city and I was just wondering is this one of the incentives for developments to bring in affordable housing to the community is part of their development proposal in other words if they if they have an exemption you know for providing additional housing is this something that would affect that in terms of being an incentive I maybe not understanding it correctly I think that is something uh that's a question we can answer now and even just when we get to the discussion I'm sorry I've got some information on that because I I believe that the city from my understanding wants to be a affordable housing friendly community and I would think that we would want to Prov incentives for developers to include that as part of their proposal um that's an assumption so that would be where I'd ask for clarification maybe during the discussion we'll make sure to address that thank you it's a great question any other public comments seeing none we'll go ahead and close public participation or public hearing excuse me bring it back to the council council member Jack yes um I wanted to give some information about the Liv local uh tax abatement so what this does it exempts uh people making 80 to 120% of the median income of cap Canaveral the median income of cap Canaveral in 2023 was $ 68,4 80% of that is someone that makes $ 54,7 n6 and 120% is someone that makes $82,900 495 um which is our median income would be subsidizing a 30-year tax abatement for workers making from 54797 uh dollar to $82,900 for 30 years the this does not help our service workers here in the area some of them um it this is a midlevel exemption so to me some of those workers that work at the restaurants waitresses um service Personnel some of them may not even make this amount of money these are space worker types of people and people that are making that much money getting a tax subsidy from retirees and some of our citizens here in the city so um I wanted to give you um FS chapter 420 section 04's definition of low income and in that statute per the state um this this tax abatement and the live local Act is for people that make extremely low income low income and very low income and I would like to give you the definition of what those are because if you look at this that's a pretty high level Sal for some people in our area making $80,000 okay so extremely low income means one or more natural persons or family whose total household income does not exceed 30% of the median annual adjusted gross income for households within the state okay so 30% for an extremely low income person a very lwi income person is um one or more natural persons or family not including students where the total annual adjusted gross household income does not exceed 50% of the median annual adjusted gross income for households within the state or 50% of the median annual adjusted gross income for household within our city so if our median and income is literally what I said was um let me go up here and look at it again it's 68,4 195 uh very low income would be someone making half of that this gives an exemption to people making $ 54,7 n6 a year to 82,9 in those units okay lowincome person means the total annual adjusted gross hous C hold income does not exceed 80% of the annual adjusted gross income for the household within the state so the question becomes for this counil is does this really qualify as something that needs a 30-year tax abatement okay because that this is us giving them this tax adjustment that abatement for 30 years also um I don't believe it does because I can't see having our retirees and some of those people having to subsidize people that may be in the space industry or in other jobs that make that much money when we have service Personnel that do not make that much money and we have retirees that don't make that much money um so it doesn't seem to me to actually assist the lower income people in our area and I agree we do need affordable housing that's something I'm on board with and especially since our city has changed since the pandemic and real estate costs have gone off the chart when yes I believe there needs to be something that is needs to be done I'm not sure this is it in my opinion so uh most of these uh Pro processes or um properties if an investor comes in and I will tell you I've had investment property uh a for a large majority of my life and when you have an option to rent and I have someone that came to my property that makes $35,000 a year and one that comes to make to my property and makes $85,000 a year or 82 which one am I going to rent to as an investor owner of a property of course I'm going to give give it to the one that I think is going to have the ability to pay so for me I have an issue with the fact that we're really not helping the people in our city that I think need the assistance and we're asking our citizens to come in and pay for it so this is why I brought this whole thing up so it's up it's up to us also during this process it's part of the live local act for the city to ensure that that person is actually renting that place in an affordable manner so that owner of that development doesn't have to do anything they can rent whomever it's on the city to make sure that they are complying within the law uh the live local act and renting to to people a certain percentage of the units under the um 80 to 12% median income requirement so that puts us in a situation where we may have to have a person to do that I mean we may if if we end up with several of these we don't have that many spots to develop anymore but if we ended up with several of these we might need to add staff to be able to keep up with that because we become someone then that has to look at those leases that are being turned into that developer because they are getting the tax abatement and we're the ones that would police that so um do we want to do that as a city that means we would have to obtain those and ensure that that was being met as well so for those reasons myself um I'm not on board with the live local um this part of that I'm absolutely on board with any creative ideas for affordable housing because our people here need it we went from a city where you could get a $500 a month apartment and you could work here in our city to a situation where our real estate is so um has has just gone off the chart to where it's really difficult for people to live here and boy am I open to any ideas to help that situation however I don't think that we should ask our taxpayers that are retirees and people like that to pay people that are making a salary like this um to pay that developer and give them a 30-year tax batement so that's that's my discussion on it thank you mayor protim or council member Willis um I I agree with u council member Jackson um affordable housing is a problem in our city and we have a lot of hospitality workers that live here and want to live here and love our city um but I don't think that this is the right answer for us um a 30-year tax abatement is a long time and who knows what's going to happen um but I do agree that we need to look at every possible angle for affordable housing that we can for our young Hospitality workers and also senior citizens that want to call this place home you know for the remaining of their lives so I think that you know if we keep working towards the affordable housing will get there but this is not the right answer at this time I I don't believe thank you mayor ptim council member Willis I'm good thank you okay thank you uh my comments are uh the the uh tax exemption portion of this um still allows us to do all the other things as our City attorney read in the resolution and explained and city manager explained and I think we all aware and so um that that tax exemption portion of it I here's what I do know that the City of Cape Canaveral had a tax exemption adum tax exemption more of an economic development tool we gave it to I one employer for 10 years at the end of 10 years they were up to renew and I oppos that renewal then um and it was just out of the principle to me it I've never liked the idea that that one property is going to get an exemption over another I didn't think that was very fair um if we want to give a tax exemption it'd be good to give a tax decrease across the board and spread it out to everyone um and then the here's what really solidified it for me is it went out on the ballots for the voters the voters voted on aex I think it was the 2020 election um the voters decided and that had a 60% hurdle on does this Council even have the ability to give a tax exemption so uh they took it away they we the citizens voted at large and it passed the threshold and so today we weren't what we we weren't even able to give it to another 10 years and at that point the citizen spoke um and today this comes down from the state uh and so sort of despite that we took that exemption away or that was taken away um I thought it was the right direction and so I'm very happy that this section we can opt out of this piece I don't think that the citizens of Cape can ever want it um I understand it I know the pitch I understand it's the tool and but you hit on a very good point on administering because it comes with strings attached and the same thing with you know when we when it was for an employer not for housing for an employer it was you know so many jobs at this certain salary rate and you know the time and the administrative cost to administer that um is a cost that I think we would we would bear um and so yes I'm in support of of opting out of this this is a one reading if just to clarify it's one reading just mic wasn't on um one other point just to keep in mind that in order for Bard County to be even eligible for the opt out um you have to look at the schimberg annual report so there's a supply and demand um calculation and if if if it identifies if that report identifies that the number of affordable and available units in the county is greater than the number of renter households in the county for natural person or families who meet the income criteria for 80 to 20 120% tax exemption then the count the jurisdictions within the county are eligible so there's a supply and demand uh threshold just to even get pass before um this entity can consider the opt out provision so I guess at this juncture based on the annual report that the C basing this resolution on it looks like the supply is there for that household income Ami of 80 to 12% and then you know also the the statute pertains to projects that are 70 units or greater so you know that's another another aspect of it too um not the law the opt out provision or this tax tax exemption provision the eligibility is based on a very you know significant number of new affordable housing units being constructed it's not a small project it has to has to meet the the the 70 or greater uh threshold so just a couple of other points about the statute got it thank you very much any other comments mayor yes city manager my community and economic development director is signaling me that she'd like to make a clarification Banna you want to come up and make her clarification either here or there got a whole set over here okay I just want to clarify um to make sure we're understanding the difference between household income and individual income um to your points because the 80 to two to 120% of average median household income that's what that you know we'll say $80,000 is referring to so that's meant to support a whole household so all combined incomes of everyone in that household not just the one individual and thank you for that ban I wanted to say I'm going to add on to what you're saying too if you don't mind um the thing that kind of strikes me is that what with what you're saying absolutely you're correct and thank you I appreciate that and that median income for cap Canaveral was 68,4 195 and in our definitions under FS 4204 um extremely low is 30% of the median income um very low is 50% of that and that is adjusted gross households income and then low income is 80% so literally 80% is the bottom of what we're about to exemp because we're going to ex this looks to exempt 80 to 120% of the median income so literally it's not even touching the the definitions that are actually in the state statutes so I'm like uh who are we helping here Ranna any other comments don't have those in front of me so I can't address those but I just want to make that correction no I appreciate it and that helps clarify what I was saying earlier thank you bana city manager anything else no sir council member Willis mayor ptim good I'm ready to make a motion okay let me just check council member Willis after you heard some discussion anything no I think it's all been said Thank you thank you okay a motion we adopt resolution 202 24-14 I'll second the motion got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum second by council member Jackson any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor Pro Tim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis four Okay resolution number 20244 item number 7 passes 40 and thank you again and council member Jackson City attorney and all who were involved to dig into that and also to the public um Mr M Hodge persistent on that I want to thank you and all the others who kept this in front of us so this is now G to item number eight public hearing ordinance number 20 2024 this is item number eight City attorney okay ordinance ordinance number 20- 2024 an ordinance of the city council of the City of Cape canar bvar County Florida amending chapter 82 buildings and building regulations to adopt regulations to allow the construction and installation of rooftop amenities on multifam mixed juice and commercial buildings which satisfy the requirements set forth in this ordinance providing for the repeal of Prior and consistent ordinances and resolutions incorporation into the code severability and an effective date this is first reading of this ordinance also a public hearing item Planning and Zoning Board considered this uh ordinance and recommended appr approval um they had one change uh that change was to um limit the applicability of this uh ordinance to the um economic overlay District so um be happy to answer any specific questions I'm not sure if Brianna's going to do a presentation or not so um I yeah I would have loved to prepare something but I'm also available for questions okay that's Council any questions on ordinance number 20 2024 uh it's a public hearing item and this will be two readings yes okay so this is one of two readings I had a question yes council member Jackson and I'm I'm guessing this question will be to you Briana um it's this we've already looked at the building at uh the building code for this and my question is under the bullet points um the no rooftop music audible beyond the building can you talk to speak to that just a little bit yes um if you're by chance able to bring up the ordinance itself where it says that we can look at the language if you scroll to page three I believe of the ordinance mhm right here it will be the paragraph 10 line 34 music should not be audible beyond the rooftop lines yes page three paragraph 10 right okay and I'm trying to find that here we go okay now knowing that and excuse me but I just I get I get the sentiment of this now my thing I see that we would have a protective and structural uh protective and structural barrier okay for safety and privacy um and that's on number number nine that I'm looking at and then the music one we just don't go into any definition of that now I know that some nights you don't hear any music from A1A and I'm down on the beach some nights when it's still I clearly hear them playing Taps from the base you know so how was how is that something that can even be monitored yes um I'm glad you asked so code enforcement would get involved basically it would be triggered by a complaint or if code enforcement's out on patrol and sees this violation and so obviously they would then move forward if it's them if if it's an officer who's identifying the violation but if it's a complaint from maybe a neighboring like a home next door whatever it might be then the code enforcement officer is responsible for verifying that that is the case and then enforcing the ordinance on immediately going up to the source of the sound and making it come into compliance okay and um so and I know we do have rooftop bars all over in this County and all over Florida and a lot of them don't seem to have problems with the noise in the area are there and this is me going into my I want you know I want some solution or some recommendation so that when we tell someone they can do this they're following some kind of guideline it's hard to follow a guideline just saying oh you won't hear it so are there any kind of architectural things that can work as a sound barrier to certain areas there absolutely are um the only caveat I would add to that is it would block views of people using the rooftop which I know that's the point of having a rooftop is to be able to see the ocean or whatever it might be um also further you would need more roof which again that's just another floor instead of a rooftop right okay so it's really going to be just I just hate for people not to have a guideline and then get complaints does that make sense it does make sense I completely understand um what I would recommend to developers who may want to add add you know develop in result of this ordinance I would recommend that noise studies are very frequently performed by Engineers that's something I would recommend um also just general design like making sure your speakers are pointing inward not outward making sure it's not overly loud um the amplification levels things like that okay okay thank you that was the only question I had is there um is there a time limit that we could add to the the ordinance you know they're still subject to our existing noise ordinance the exist um does our code has something about decs so many decb loud the part you know just a noise complaint from a neighbor isn't it a measured our city code does not have uh standards by decb ours uses um what Anthony might correct me I believe the termine is the reasonable man standard whereas a person could go out and hear it after 11: PM for example that's evidence of a violation okay so does this Anthony is that how how do we enforce I I guess yeah the the um the city does have a noise ordinance has the U there different there's an objective standard and there's an subjective standard city has a subjective standard so there are the reasonable person standard for for noise VI VI ation the uh rooftop amenities ordinance on the other hand is is going to be an an out outdoor space the way the ordinance is written and the thought process was music is fine on the rooftop but uh there was some concern about it carrying because it's going to be an outdoor space and at a higher elevation so the um the language put in there was that go ahead and have the mic music but don't let it travel beyond the boundaries of the of the roof so you the way I thought about it when when this was being considered was you know you everybody's familiar with was it the Let It Be album with the Beatles and the rooftop performance versus you know um trying to keep keep the keep the noise down a little bit not that there's anything wrong with The Beatles but I think we're little concerned about if there is some Amplified music and um in like an outdoor lounge or something on the rooftop sound travels and the signage so so really it's about from the ground or from the neighbors a budding and I guess I guess in the future if you had they wouldn't be from the ground if there's development you know on the third floor of a condo or it's it's kind of straight across and in the view how does that impact is this all based from the the ground or if you're at like the fifth floor of a condo so the code for music specifically um the code states that it beyond the rooftop line so for example in the off chance that you have a development that's mixed use and you have condos or something along or you'd have to look through zoning wise what would be allowed but some a hotel someone living in a hotel or renting a hotel room and on the rooftop that hotel has an accessory restaurant um someone in the hotel room technically shouldn't be able to hear that sound so beyond the rooftop lines any anyone below that uh floor level I guess it's a good way to say it and the part on signage where did it I thought it was right there it said that signs is uh line 26 uh sub paragraph 8 just above where we were signage is prohibited with the exception that small signage related to the rooftop amenities is permitted within the rooftop amenity area provided it is only visible in that area so it does that mean that uh you should only be able to see it if you're on that rooftop that's exactly correct so you can advertising on a18 okay or to the sky correct okay thank you any other questions council member Willis uh yes I've got a question for Miss Soto um to to your knowledge is there any inventory current inventory that uh within the city that would be wanting to make adjustments or add rooftop amenities in terms of adding no but potentially new development and they would have to maintain any any current structure would have to meet U ADA Compliant issues as well as uh all structural issues correct absolutely any addition to a building or new building that would incorporate design based on this code is subject to a building permit which requires ADA review yes as applicable okay thank you mayor protim did you have any more questions no I'm good thank you this time any other Council before we go to public hearing okay this is a public hearing item number eight ordinance number 2020 24 if you'd like to speak on this uh build uh this is amending chapter 82 the building and building regulations to allow the construction and installation of rooftop amenities on multifam mixed use and commercial buildings and these requirements set forth in this ordinance that is a quick summary please come forward if you intend to speak okay come forward and if you're listening online we'll raise your hand and we'll get to you momentarily thank you yeah thank you so this is the first time I'm seeing this um I wasn't able to download the agenda packet off of laser fish for whatever reason I couldn't get it to go but a lot of this is um difficult to make sense of okay so let's just take uh the first one signage is prohibited with the exception that a small signage related to the rooftop amenities is permitted within it so nowhere on say say for example you build a twostory restaurant and on the top of the Second Story you have seating so are you not allowed to put a sign saying we have seating upstairs and then we have a rooftop area because it says it's only within um the the uh rooftop space that doesn't make any sense to me um a protective structural Barrel to be installed on the rooftop absolutely 4T absolutely that's that's the code 5 ft away from the minimum of the building doesn't make sense if you go to Ryan's restaurant right here in Coco you can sit right on the edge of that 5 ft away um from The Edge um doesn't make sense to me um music can be beyond the rooftop lines you guys have discussed it but I feel like that music should be at our already existing um music or U noise standards I don't think you need another one we already have an existing thing that says you can't have excess noise you can't have noise before 700 you can't have noise after 11:00 and it has to be at a reasonable um level level um rooftop amenity area shall not be visible from the ground with the exception of protective and structural barrier well you also say in number seven that you can have um umbrellas and you can have um trellis and gazebos and things of that nature so how could the amenity area not be visible from the ground if your Edge is only 4 ft in your umbrella and rooftop and whatnot is probably going to be 10 or 12 ft so um just as a person just as somebody that goes to a lot of rest rooftop restaurants and rooftop bars um I haven't seen any of these stipulations anywhere else including in our own Bard County so thank you yes if I understand Miss's comment she's refering sorry if I understand Miss scher's comment she's referring to signage inside a building directing people to the upstairs is that correct no just I just want to touch on the signage one um our code defines sign meaning any object whether eliminated or non-illuminated which is designed or intended to advertise identify announce direct or inform the public and which can be viewed by the public offsite so a sign interior to the building wouldn't meet our definition of sign that help answer that no so can I not would a person not be able to have a sign that says restaurant bar would they not be able to have that sign I think Anthony help me on this but I think that you can advertise that on your ground sign you can advertise that on your wall sign as part of the copy area Allowed by that sign but I think this is referring to additional signage right I mean this ordinance doesn't uh impact the amount of signage that you can have on your building in front of your building on the building this is only related to the rooftop space so you can advertise that you have a rooftop Lounge you could put that signage um in the traditional way on the building outside of the building but um the intent of the of sub paragraph 8 is um to prohibit um additional signage on on tops of roofs because currently you can't even you can't do that under the code you have ground signage you have building faced signage um but you're not permitted to have you know illuminated signs on a roof okay so that's what it prevents what does it allow this what this says is States is as as you can have as much signage as you want on the rooftop area as long as it's not visible um and so you can have as much signage as you want you can have table signage if you had a if you had a a trellis with a bar sign or a bar sign behind you know the bar you can have all of that as long as it's visible within the rooftop space only okay we are thank you in the public hearing portion let's go back and make sure we every would anyone else like to speak on this item item number eight ordinance number 2024 anyone raise their hand seeing yes Dr Roberts come on forward thank you given our Beachside environment is there an example in another Beachside community in Bard that we could be thinking of that would give us a sense of what we're talking about I just I'm struggling with the hurricane environment we're in uh maybe I'm not understanding it either but uh I'm just trying to get a sense of what's envisioned here what the motivation is as I understand it there's no there are no businesses in line there's not a current business that's seeking this I'm just asking uh gets back to some of our rooftop Provisions that the state is requiring to to be safe and I just am struggling to have just think of something in our Beachside area here in Bard to think about that does this in the way the city is envisioning it was this something prompted by the and interested business or where did the need for this come from those are just questions I have yeah and I think we can definitely ask those do we have an example of what we're thinking of U through the this ordinance I guess City attorney is there has this ordinance been applied to another community and this ordinance used there there are other rooftop amenity the um ordinances around around the country um I mean that this was we We examined some of those um but you know there's not one that's specifically the same as this um the rooftop amenity can be me just say one thing that there there has been some interest expressed at the planning and zoning board meeting for rooftop amenity observation deck to be able to bring people up to the roof to gather assemble and watch sunsets sunrises or you know space launches that has been discussed at the pnz meeting I think there was one gentleman that talked about possibility of having you know um restaurant space on on a rooftop um um so that has been discussed um but the idea behind this if I recall is that is that there are height limitations and only certain structures are permitted on the roof most of those structures are util utilitarian oriented and there's been um some discussion regarding allowing assembly of people on especially the taller buildings in the city for the reasons I expressed right you can if it's tall enough you can see above and you can see space launches you can see the sunet sunrise so you that's part of what uh was the impetus of bringing bringing this forward previous staff before Brianna came um was doing some of the research on this and and bringing and bringing this before um the planning of zoning board for you know discussions thank you and I and I want to comment on that too um but before doing so I think that was it are there any other public comments public participation yes please come forward my name is John roer I represent uh Kaizen companies and portview place in and SS LLC which is the new Hyatt Place going up um we have been interested in this for our property uh I've been kind of listening to a lot of public comment I've been attending the pnz meetings uh listening to how it's moved forward I've talked with Kyle uh the predecessor to Brianna and discussed what this could look like for the community so we were really taking an interest in this for our building uh one of the major tourists we get we also own the country and and Suites behind it one of the major tourists we get is cruise ships and space ships or space launches and we've had a lot of interest in people wanting to view this from the the top of the building obviously our current country in that was an unsafe thing to do so therefore that's not an option so it was something we were interested in integrating to the new Hyatt Place that we're constructing uh we have taken the structural portion and all of the other integral portions of the building that would require to meet code to have this on our building um so we're very interested in having this on our building and allowing uh not only our guests we would like to see that we can move forward in the future once we get through the first portion of opening our building to allow for also public and local residents to be able to do the same thing and it was a a very big need we felt that we could F fill a void that that Cape Canaveral does not necessarily have whereas if you go to Melbourne you can go to the melb you can go up towards Titusville and go up to the space bar it was something that we felt that this area could also capitalize on and keep people in this community uh and that's why we really were interested in this and discussed this a lot with Kyle and the city over the past year and a half and once again we have attended the pnz meetings and also have provided our input but also sat back and tried to listen that's why I didn't want to step up here too prematurely and let the citizens here discuss I've spent the last four years in this community as we've been trying to develop this hotel Co definitely shut us down for quite some time um but yeah I love this community too and I think it would bring something here but it's also me ultimately uh the city's decision as well thank you and your name again uh John roer I'll I'll fill out a sheet and bring it up thank you John appreciate that there any other public comments seeing none any hands raised online who would like to comment with that we'll go ahead and close public participation bring it back to the council uh we heard some comments from uh miss schaer about this the first thing that is this is the first of two readings so we we can work through this this is not final tonight um and I think those are some good questions uh around just understanding it whether it be a guide as you were saying interpreting it uh correctly but I think the the Practical things that um Dr Roberts brought up as well as an example Hotel Melby I think that's um that's in the uh downtown Melbourne is it Melby Melby they have a a I have been to that rooftop restaurant one time and you know I don't know what the height is of that if it it exceeds um and I've certainly been on a rooftops uh down south and it's open to the public and I mean Melbourne yes great view but as far as rocket launch is that opportunity here um I have stated to the city manager in meetings about the ability for residents to uh utilize the amenities of hotels uh a lot of the residents uh do not you know aren't thrilled about hotels not because they're hotels but because it's not something that they typically uh would use you know more restaurants more entertainment more shops Class A businesses we can go back to the vision talk about that and uh being able to see the shorelines going back to the 2009 Visions uh correct me if I'm wrong but you know the way the zoning and the um height you know A1A sort of was the highest point and then it's kind of supposed to taper down with a little bump up to the R2 on the east side 45 ft but the highest buildings 65 ft I think would probably be our highest building and this is um they could see out so you don't block those Waterfront views but again residents there that's not our hotel with an exception of this hurricane I think some of the hotels actually did provide some resources for locals who didn't have power and things but um with that it is a quality of life amenity that I'm want to continue to talk through because we want to do it right and I don't think we want to to write a code code is as Micha was saying that really does not it's not applicable and the one that jumps out is that 5ot setb because I'm trying to go back that's saying that the glass or whatever doesn't have to be glasses you and I were chatting it could be just whatever structurally sound needs to be 5 foot back from the the Eve or the edge of the roof yeah the the the building coat is going to require that an accessible roof have protection for fall anyways um and that would be a guard I believe Robert of 42 in minimum um this is an additional requirement the way that I read this um's what section is that in nine yeah protective and structural barriers shall be installed on the rooftop designed to provide a safe safety and privacy so privacy um I think that means from view screen from view potentially that's possibly what that means if not designed into the overall design of the of the building a guard or railing enclosing the rooftop amenities shall be installed upon approval building so if a if a guard or railing is included in the design of the overall building then this next section doesn't apply so I'm reading that okay you are in section what nine sub paragraph nine uh starting in line 29 yep so and actually on line 30 where it says if not designed into the overall design of the building a guard or railing and closing rooftop ameni shall be installed upon approval building official does not exceed a maximum but if it is designed into the overall building then this doesn't apply okay correct okay so new construction and it's in the design it part of the original engineering plans but if there was a retrofit or they had the capabilities there you would essentially have a 5ot perimeter that you could walk on the outside well not the point is it for fire access is is there anything um I think the thought was um safety because it's it's going to be a retrofit so it would have to have a um a wall not to or a wall or a a barrier of of of maximum of 4 ft in height and then set back in case someone decided to look over a little too much got it okay well I think um thank you for clarifying that and uh so an example I think Hotel Melby I guess that would be a good example I don't know the height of that I'm not saying but imagine if it was at at our one of our allowable Heights that was I think that would fit in this code I you know it it's nothing we're not falling short of the capabilities I think to do something like that um with an exception of the whole viewable sound I I don't know how that goes and they got a parking garage and there are underneath um but yes I I'm walking slow with this P andz had some good discussion and I want to make sure we do it right so with that I'll stop councel mayor protim yes I I think this is a a good um ordinance um we've been talking about changing our ordinances to to um do more mixed use and multif family um and again with the uh rooftop amenities I think that because we're Limited space we need to take advantage of our exact location which if people can go to a rooftop and watch The Cruise Ships coming in out the residents here put up with the cruise ships being here with the traffic and this and that and so maybe they we need things like this so they can enjoy where we are as well and the same with the um the launches to uh you know SpaceX and and such I think it's really good um I think the signage I agree the signage is kind of bag um I don't really I mean if you come into a restaurant and there's a sign that says rooftop available seating I'm not sure I understand this or maybe it could be a little clearer but I I definitely supported on the first reading and maybe we can work through a few of these things to make them more clear but I definitely think it's something that we need here in our city so I'm perhaps number eight signage could be more clear clear if we wrote additional signage and but what we mean by that is you know the the signage as defined by the sign code which I read earlier can be seen Outdoors um as Anthony said there's there's ground signs and there's wall signs you can get a certain size area of a sign for those things we don't regulate the content of it it says whatever words it says but you don't get additional exterior signage because you have this right maybe that's the word we need to add yeah yeah and the word small that's a subjective yeah yeah I agree with that perhaps we could um revise it to say additional signage is not or is prohibited related to the rooftops amenities um this doesn't Grant you the ability to advertise the rooftop outside of the maximums already allowed in the sign code or maybe maybe it's simpler to say this does not authorize additional signage Beyond what's allowed in the side code with the exception of a sign limited to the viewable area on what does it say visible in that area I have some ideas so we could say that we will clarify that language and bring that back for the second reading yeah if that's the council's wish to go that direction yeah I think that would help and and in between now and then um I think we can read through this a few times and and try to get any other Clarity but those were the ones that jumped out of me council member Jackson well I have a question because I was I've been Road forer for a big portion of my life so as we look at the hotel like Hyatt um and we're saying oh this will be great for our residents here there's plenty of places when you're on the road that those amenities are only for people with room keys and things like that so how do we ensure that we're not just allowing a noise s noise situation on top of a building that they could change the use of where our residents are not allowed to use them amenity because we we have a bunch of new hotels we don't have restaurants in them that we can frequent we have few restaurants in our own City we have um you know limited shopping limited retail and all of this so where I see this as an interesting con ccept and everything as somebody that's traveled there's been plenty of those places where you have to have that key to get up there or be allowed to use that amenity or it can change based on corporate policies so the way that that can be addressed is that any new hotel development anything in commercial district is required to go through the site plan review process which goes to planning and zoning board for approval and that's a discretionary application with findings required for approval which relate to how will this benefit the city etc etc so um as each project comes through that can be addressed Planning and Zoning Board could you know first we work with the developer to try try to come to an agreement but Planning and Zoning Board could condition an approval um for ultimate approval with a condition saying that um XYZ must be open to the public permanently for example and it's marked on the plans physically that's possible but the but the space and way I look at it is the space is no different than any other space that gets constructed in the City of Cape canaval you have a developer they build a certain development project it could be a residential project that's limited to the residents it could be a commercial project that's open for business to the public it could just be simple um a pool amenity for a multi family um apartment complex that's limited to the the residence it's a residence area it could be um a hotel that has a a rooftop bar lounge that they open up to the general public it's going to depend on you know the specific development ABS I don't know how you mandate that it's always going to be open to the to the public because the purpose was to give the developers the opportunity to do something that's usable on the roof right and as we look at this ordanance going forward and I keep hearing how it'll be great for our community it could if we end up with multiple hotels with them allall on top of there they could literally be good for the hotel but not our community because there we don't have access to that we've already got a lot of businesses on that corner that we as Citizens don't have access to and you're exactly right I've been to ones that they allowed the public CU they wanted the the people coming and spending their money and then we I've been been to some that were private and if you weren't staying at that hotel you were not using the amenity so as we say it's something that's you know uh you know our citizens will enjoy and we live in this residential City by the sea that it's in our Charter that way we we restrict rentals and all these things we have to think of it that way if it's not a public establishment if like you know the hotel is a private business you know if it's if they don't want to do it they don't have to I guess so that was my question and thank you it's a good one yeah I think it's it's difficult to require if it was a restaurant like if it's a pool and a hot tub on the roof I don't even know if that's allow I'm just trying to think of something that's typically exclusive to the guests uh that that's probably not that's the guests want their towels and their lawn chairs open they it I understand that but if it's a restaurant you know usually the mechanism's there to try and keep it AF flat and I think the Rison restaurant flamingos is largely open to the public in the rental space um the restaurant The Marriott down in uh Melbourne uh the Coco Beach Hilton they have the um the Mexican restaurant in there so is there a a hotel with a restaurant that's closed off to the public is rare well they have like they typically will have food service but sometimes it's included in their rate so it's not necessarily um you know it's they'll have happy hours in the evening um they'll have manager happy hours they'll have breakfast in the morning and it's all guest exclusive so there there can be that situation as well I just don't want us to look at it like oh this will be great for our community if it's on any of the hotels that are for Cruisers that is going to be for the Cruisers and if we get to use it that's a great thing but it doesn't necessarily mean that we are going to 100% have access to that one yes so it's something as we talk about it being great for the community it it could or could not be based on what the hotel you know what is in their business plan and and how it's designed yeah it wouldn't guarantee it I think today it pretty cold there's not a whole lot of of opportunity um but thank you council member Willis uh yes um I think we should move forward with the ordinance um once we clear up some of the ambiguities in the language thank you anything else Council council member Willis no I'm good thank you C manager I think some of those clar ities and bring we'll be able to get through those um I don't know if we hit on all the points Miss schaer brought up were there some that we didn't talk about yeah I just don't understand how you could have cab um awnings and things of that nature but not being visible from the ground Anthony are shall not be visible from the ground with the exception of the protective and structural barrier okay going to be 4T so if you're going to have a cabana or lighting or anything that's 10 ft that's obviously going to be seen from the ground so I don't know how 11 works okay so the uh number 11 uh rooftop Ami area shall not be visible from the ground with the exception of the protective and structural barrier uh how is that possible uh yeah was the intent to only see the barrier and not even um I don't know if there's a a little covered Awning or something up there Tiki Bar I don't know uh and what what is the purpose of that one really because we have a lot of new structures that are multistory now and we have condos so if you're on the second floor you're going to see it so I'm not sure from the ground yeah ground I mean I think the original development of the ordinance was to limit this to the tallest structures and I I think that was backed off of but you know a lot of the rooftop amenities are not visible I mean depends on the size of the roof depends on the height of the building and it depends on whatever the policy decision of the city council is if you want a bunch of one-story buildings with a bunch of rooftop toop amenities up and down A1A and elsewhere in the city then you know you can make that policy decision but at first was to take small steps and they were look looking at buildings of of considerable height that the probability of visibility from the ground was far less than if it was a rooftop amenity on a one-story building on A1A okay so I mean policy and you guys can wrestle with how you want uh you know the city to build out on these types of issues if you're even inclined to allow these rooftop amenities just to clarify as well um our existing code as long as someone's building within code by right say it's 35 ft 10 ft there is nothing restricting um rooftop infrastructure in within the height limit that the city currently has this would allow it beyond that 45 fet by right up to the uh height limits specified in the ordinance which would be 12T yeah there is a limit proposed limitation not to exceed 12 feet on rooftop amenities and and and it's above it's it's it's just to allow add additional equipment or uh structures that exceed the the roof line today it's just like air conditioning units antennas and things like that um this broadens what can what can be placed on the roof there are limitations in the Florida building code and the building official certainly can talk to that um regarding what you can do um on a roof especially with respect to enclosures um there's also some discussion just to put this out there too because people were having a hard time making the distinction this this is this is a rooftop amenity this is not an additional floor mhm and we had that discussion to so this is something you occupy the roof um you know if you got a four-story building you can have the rooftop amenities and then there was some discussion well I want an enclosed restaurant on the top well then build a fifth floor and then you have your fifth floor enclosure this is rooftop right that's what we're talking about using existing space in the it imagine all the rooftops that exist today whether it be one of the listed things outdoor dining areas uh swimming pools hot tubs Lounge Gardens Terraces observation decks if they had any type of covered cooking facility it cannot be greater than 12 ft with an exception of the elevator and the stair can go up three more feet to 15 but that's just that top thing and so it'll never be more than 12 ft on any rooftop right for the amenity yes for the amenity ask5 is our limit now yes so that would be 12T within that 65t is that correct 12et above the 65 so that's so do we have a 65t or close to a 65t hotel most of the newer ones are 65 ft so we could take any new one between now and the next reading and it would be on one that I assume would have a flat roof new 12 feet above that if there was just a covered structurally approved that's the other thing is meeting the wind load requirements and the structural requirements myami day wind load it's going to not be an easy task I think it's going to require some structural reinforcements and or from the original design but yes uh I think it would be 65 and then well that roof sitting up there in Cape Canaveral you can't use it today no one can access it today for for amenity use and we're saying if you wanted to build I think it's pretty much going to be for coverage for shade of some sort what most people are going to use it for they can go up and add and build some sort of to occupy the roof under a shade not to exceed 12 foot that's kind of yeah and I'm I'm understanding Mrs charlot's comment a bit more here when I read it this way um if you had a a lower building than 65 ft let's say yours was a a 25 or a 30 foot high commercial structure and you wanted to put a rooftop amenity on there it's going to be nearly impossible for that not to be visible from the ground just standing across the street you're going to be able to see a pergola there or gazebo or whatever and I think since um City attorney was saying this was written for larger structures we shouldn't penalize the are smaller businesses that are wanting to do this in our city if we're going to allow it for the larger corporations we should be look looking at making it easier for our smaller businesses for that very reason a twostory building of course you're going to see it if you look up you will see it and so how that wording on number 11 I think we need need to modify that somewhat if we want to support our small businesses in the city I I would like to I know that when I go back to the vision statement it talked about outside seating it also and we also talked about height respectively too and there's a balance that in keep the and um we've already exceeded so just to make sure in the record uh Dr Roberts talked about the vision being at uh 45 ft um the today we have most at at 65 ft who take advantage of the economic overlay District that allows for for the 65 ft that's the defined area in this agenda um um and so I think we need to to talk through that further and and theoretically 65 yeah 77 ft right so that's what would technically be a top coverage structure on a roof um I think we should move forward and maybe we can work through these in between the two readings does that sound good and uh I'm really clear I think what we need to do do about number eight about signage but I'm thinking do we want to just strike number 11 shall not be visible from the ground as long as a site plan as bana is has some sort of Citizen you know our Board review whether it be I guess it go through Community appearance potentially that I don't know all the steps but if it doesn't a pnz would catch a site plan and it wouldn't necessarily always be reviewed under the site plan process okay um you know it depends on what the rooftop amenity is it could be something that is you know implemented you know 5 years 10 years after building right was was was constructed so someone might be you know deciding to put a lounge area a seating area Up Up on the Roof if it's if it can structurally withstand it but so may that may not trigger site plan review in all cases could we add something in there that would especially in these early stages that would ensure that it has some sort of review yes so right now um our municial code section 110221 lists out when a site plan review by Planning and Zoning Board is triggered um so in between the two reading we can absolutely look at that and see if we have if it's possible for us to do that and present that to you add a category to 110 221 for RO top amenities or within this ordinance we can look at the options but we can look at options but you know the site plan ordinance is is currently being um modified as well so that that hasn't made it to the Planning and Zoning Board yet um but that that's been a work in progress because of the what the triggering mechanisms are for site plan review okay um so as Briana said it could something we could maybe put something in this ordinance for now if this ordinance moves forward um in the next meeting or so and then we can certainly put it in the site plan ordinance too to have some sort of review whatever the council wants to do again the the thought process was to try to take some baby steps on this to try to see how it you know plays out you know aesthetically and and for the community okay well thank you in in any photos I think some visuals between now and then that we can get and I'll try if I'm down there we almost put we that's a really good point May because we we were thinking about putting pictur pictures in in the ordinance to give examples in the body of the ordinance but um couldn't readily find stock pictures that we we could uh you know copy and put into the ordinance but we we certainly do it in a presentation okay um and I would be willing between now and whenever we bring this back do we think it's November would it would come back and absolutely okay it's not that I'm say it it should just if in that meeting we carve out maybe 50 15 minutes of extra time well it' be a public hearing item so um I hope some of the folks here to see the changes John Shannon Peg everyone who's helped and heard could come back and what we'll provide for you is a Redline version with this one and then the proposed amendments from this meeting as well as photos of around town thank you any other comments Council think we should probably move on I'll make a motion that we adopt ordinance number 202 20 20 24 with the uh revisions and changes that we're talking about um at the first hearing looking for a second I'll second the motion for Le discussion got a motion by mayor protim Kellum second by mayor Morrison for ordinance number 202024 any further discussion uh I think there will be some changes between the way it's written today and then um and I'd like to move towards that if I would support it I'm torn on it because of the height restrictions um that uh Dr Robert has mentioned um and the way some of these things are written I don't want um I'm just it's it's hard it's hard for me I think I think it needs to be cleaned up a bit so I do too I think um and I found out with the budget meeting when you voted with it that's what they that's what we think I mean no no I want it cleaned up a bit because like right now with it baby steps for a large establishment some of these things and I know we've talked about someone we need to take out um and I don't want to have a situation like Coco Peach Hadad with their outdoor music venue where literally now it's very rarely used because because the music was so loud everyone in town complained about it so for me I think we're missing some things on because how does how would any business person say how would any business person control music shall not be audible beyond the rooftop line that is something that literally how do you even enforce that statement where there's deible readings that you can put out they have them down there on that music venue people over by the country club were complaining that's turn the way where the stage faced then the people in that direction were complaining so I think in order for people to not get viol notice of violations and complaints against the business if they're small businesses in a lower building I want to make sure they have the guidelines they need so they know what to do luckily all of our small businesses in my area they're they observe the noise no noise ordinances but then when you're talking about putting it on top of a building already you know that's 65 ft and you're putting 12T on top of that with music pointing in any direction it's going to be hard I mean you can hear blocks away when there's music playing on the island if the wind's right so for me I I don't know how we control these things or give them a good idea of what they need to do I think it needs to be clear for them so that when they do it they're successful and we have a successful rooftop amenity so hardening up on the the noise side I think is is a concern I share as well and my hope is that we we don't delay the first reading we get to the second and I would have the same issues appr before approving it on second reading but if you want to delay make the change and then bring it through two more readings well I no I mean or or just vote against whole thing I I can just vote against until I see things tightened up that's fine okay I'm still um I know that a lot of citizens have said they didn't want the height in the city and we've got H how many new hotels do we have up here now at the at the corner of Central in between central on A1A and the port how many of those four four Okay so we've got four new ones we had how many existing I think we're at 10 total okay so we got 10 hotels that could have rooftop amenities I don't know and I don't struct I mean structurally they can have rooftop amenities but yes we have probably about 10 hotels and probably be sever more applications coming to to the city so you know when we do this any any smart businessman is going to want to do that because their guests are going to want to go up there and look and see the area makes sense right so to me I'm going to have to vote against it tonight because I don't want to see I there's no way I can determin on this trickle effect with 10 of them up there already how that's going to impact our citizens without knowing some of these things more clearly um and having a better feel for it not that I'm against them I'm not saying that but we've got a disparity between our existing small businesses and the larger buildings we've got 10 of them up there with possibility of it and just a handful of small businesses in the area that could benefit from it and so and we're going above this 65 ft which people have consistently communicated over the years has that changed I really don't know because we haven't done a new citizen survey or anything recently we're going by one the last one what was it 2016 or 2012 or whatever I think the revisioning 2018 the revisioning was uh 2022 I believe okay so there was one in 2022 and that was still a focus M so that's why I I have a hard time with it tonight but I to understand that's just I just wanted to say why so that people will know I'm not against it I'm against it as it is right now I hope we can work together to find what would work and I think that's what this is all about and so if it can't it can't um but I'm thankful we we are able to work talk through this and council member Willis I think that uh existing hotels are going to have an extreme expense trying to retrofit their hotels for rooftop amenities by adding elevators staircases fire fire escapes Etc so um I think it it is geared more towards new development than existing but uh I think we still need to clean up some of the language in in this and possibly uh look at the height restrictions again so that's all I've got I'm willing to do two more readings and just postpone so that because I mean the reality of Us coming in on the second raing uh and it being done but well then there's the advertising cost of advertising for second reading would have to be redone if it's changed after that Also let's let's I I'll support it tonight but it won't obviously pass until we're three of us I think at least agree with it and that'll give us a chance to talk to the public visualize drive around and when I said I don't know it's possible I was talking more about the architectural and as Council Willis said you know if it's not a flat roof sure I guess now it's possible um and as Brianna pointed out it is possible today in many respects I think what this does is IT addresses is that that those issues we at 65 ft now you can add just a 12T clearance well that takes it up to a structure of 77 feet and in tanas today I mean technically if you reach to the highest point of whatever's up there there's things that already approved um to go beyond but I I'm I'm hearing that you're okay with it council member will us as long as we can address some of the issues that's correct yes mayor Pro Tim Kellum yeah I think um I you know the height thing is very important but I think in here I can't find it exactly right now it says that there shouldn't be any enclosed structures so I'm thinking the 10 or 12T above the 65 ft would probably be just shade things to keep it no it wouldn't be a structure structure so you know I don't see um where that would be bad um and then you know the the existing hotels now like uh councilman Willis said would cost them a lot of money to bring it to where they could put something up there because it hasn't been designed and so I don't think it will happen a lot I just I think that I think staff knows where we're coming from on this and I think if we pass it on the first reading and hope get it all in order to pass it anonymously on the second all roll in mayor and just to clarify your earlier question in the alternative the council could approve bring this back for a second first reading if if we're worried that we need more time we could do that too yeah just if if it passes today the next one is it's it's done at that point um I think if if you wanted to bring it back for second first reading you you wouldn't approve this motion you would just right and you motion to postpone um uh further consideration of first reading until the next city council meeting um on November whatever that date is at 6: pm and that would preserve first that would preserve the advertisement and um we just continue the first reading mot for further consideration upon postpone first reading F further consideration of first reading of the ordinance until the regular city council meeting on November 19th 19th at 6: p.m. and then it just gets continued first reading gets continued to the next meeting um I don't even think we've advertised second reading yet so so preserving first reading advertisement and you can just continue the discussion and when you if you think you're ready to have second and final reading of the ordinance then we can advertise it and bring it back at a subsequent meeting I have confidence that after the discussion that Rihanna and city manager will be able to clean some of this up from our discussions tonight I do feel good about that like I said I'm not against it totally I just want to make sure our small businesses are covered and that we're doing what our citizens want because of the height but um coun mayor protim Kellum very big point you know it is just awnings and tables and things like that it's not a permanent floor yeah and then I want to I would like to see noise some somehow defined so that we can possibly be out in front of that um rather than addressing it you know after something's going on and it's an issue because that's really a difficult one to deal with when you're on an island with the noise and we want to make sure our residents we we like we have it in our city Charter residential City by the Sea well are those residents going to be happy with music if it's really loud in their houses all day long on a weekend you know so we've got to really look at that in my could I ask a point of clarity question um in terms of taking in what you all are saying and incorporating it into the second reading or whatever next reading we might have um there was suggestion to eliminate the noise paragraph 10 about music and rely on the city's existing noise ordinance um if you all could give your thoughts on that directive on that actually I'd like yeah actually I'd like to you know augment that what what is the council's opinion regarding live entertainment on a rooftop sorry something's gone wrong please try again we're doing our best um so I mean [Music] the is is rooftop amenity going to be suitable for live you know live entertainment audible entertainment pment um you know you you can place restrictions on activities rather than just the measurement of sound you know anyone I mean there are a lot of communities right now that are wrestling with enter outdoor entertainment and loud sounds um you know go down to Coco Village um on occasion and you can hear um an issue with sound so emanating from live entertainment so what's what's the council's Thought on on that again you can this measurement and put some restrictions in there or are you leaning towards not allowing certain types of activities that generate sound like live Amplified you know bands and things like that that would be helpful if you gave us some some direction that might alleviate some concerns and that's where for me it becomes difficult because I've sat on I've sat down on Ridgewood and heard music from The Brewery up here that used to be Cape KB back in the day when they had their outdoor venues and you could hear it all day long now for me it doesn't bother me but if you had a child taking a nap halfway between here and Ridgewood it might bother that that Resident um so I don't know how we want to Define it or how we want to look at that but if we I do know one thing if we had four or five of them up off a central with outdoor entertainment at each one we could be asking for a problem with noise carrying across the city if they're up on the 6 F you know 65 ft in the air so I don't know because we've done to me there's like no sound studies there's no definition of what we're going to allow we're just going to go ahead and do it and then take a look at it so I don't know I'm new this this one's brand new to me um like I said before our smaller uh businesses in the city that have outdoor music and Friday Fest and things you might hear it some nights you don't some night you you do just based on what the wind is doing so and how still the island is so we have but how much of that do we as a city and our citizens have a tolerance for do we want to have so many places because if we allow it for one we got allow it for everyone that's what you do with property ownership rights we're not I'm not a restricting type of person so um you know and for the business owner whether you're a corporate owner or small business how do we Define it and I don't know that's something y'all would probably know from being on Council before better than I would don't we have a noise ordinance yeah I pulled it up 11:00 it stops May if you'd like me to read it I can read it it says uh the playing using or operating or permitting to be played operated or used any radio receiving set musical instrument television set phonograph or other machine or device for the producing or reproducing of sound in such such a manner as to disturb the Peace Quiet and comfort of the neighboring residents at any time with louder volume than is necessary for the convenient hearing of the person who is in the room vehicle or immediate area in which such machine or device is being operated and who is a voluntary listener there too the operation of any such radio receiving set musical instrument television set photograph or other machine or device for producing reproducing sound between the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 7: a.m. in such a manner as to be plainly audible at a distance of 100 ft from the building structure or vehicle in which it is located shall be deemed primacia evidence of a violation of this section so that we can stand on that today yeah we don't want to write anything that's going to conflict with that um I would steer away from me personally on limiting the uses I certainly that I mean that would right if you're just not allow any type of live music or any machine to be played right I mean rocket viewing only or but I think um yeah as long as I think if if those amenities are are are if there's a noise issue I think our code today would need to be enforced and um perhaps there's some good communication up front as they're pursuing this and they know that um yeah I think if I'm walking down A1A and I can plainly audible was the the language I think it just said it if I hear you know just a a humming a sound or Let It Be The Melody playing you know but if it's boom boom bang you know and it's a uh I think just a heavy you know a Basse drum can really thump across the city and I you know the air waves that high I don't know how sound travels compared to on the ground I think that condo as well that uh might have a front row seat that that I'm concerned about and so um noise I think has to be addressed if we can get in front of that um mayor when I first read this the way I read it item 10 music shall not be audible beyond the rooftop lines I read that as in addition to existing current code we're going to be more restrictive for rooftops 24/7 noise shall not be audible beyond the rooftop lines as an additional restriction beyond the current s noise ordinance ye yes I I read it that way too is if you need to be within the rooftop lines you need to be up there to hear it but I guess if you're one balcony down or technically um well within the rooftop lines to the sky you you should be outside that building 5 feet and be able to hear it okay um and I I don't think we should use the word music there because it conflict it it it draws a a distinction from our noise ordinance it should be noise Maybe maybe there's a little bit if that's the council's intent I think we can strengthen it that way okay say in addition to the current city noise ordinance this additional restriction shall be in place for rooftop amenities M okay that help Brian it does um if that is what's desired it sounded like consensus potentially was going towards just relying on the existing noise ordinance so those are your options that you have I think I have confidence that well assuming City attorney some clarity I I hope we can figure out without limiting the use if that answers your question if we can just stick to simple it simplify it um and if if that can be interpr written in a way where that's clear yeah I have confidence we can get there feel comfortable with that council member Willis um live living in the immediate area the uh noises coming from places like K and the hotels are very minimal I have a bigger problem with what goes on at the port and listening to It's a small world when Disney ship leaves so um that's basically uh not a not an issue to me so yeah so I I would suggest number 10 be revised to this isn't pretty language but something like noise shall not be audible beyond the rooftop lines at any time in addition to the existing noise ordinance noise in the general sense and I mean if there was a rooftop bar or restaurant it could be the clinging of glasses that you can hear beyond the roof line is that what your intent is um I I would say people that are humming and you know they're talking and speaking I think know I mean I think we can get together and talk about it probably need to talk about it um that you know dealing with music um and and audible music and potential bands and and entertainment um on the on the on the rooftops but you know we can talk about it because the city does have a subjective standard noise ordinance that applies in all senses regard regardless of where the noise emanates from you can stand on that or perhaps put a few more restrictions if necessary on the rooftop amenal again the rooftop amenal is an outdoor venue so that's the reason why that provision was put in there it was not intended to limit the city's application the noise ordinance generally okay okay and if you don't think we should clamp down on on the music sense then that provision can be stricken and you we could stand on the city's existing noise ordinance or or what but we can go back and talk about it some more as long as our code enforcement can address loud disrupting neighbors and residents um just got a new officer yesterday thank you council member Willis was there anything else uh no I'm I'm good with it thank you okay uh mayor PM anything I got that motion the way he do you have it the yeah I'll make a motion that we postpone the first reading to November for a second first reading we have to dispense with the original motion that was had a second on the first first motion okay excuse me so so we have decided to postpone this first hearing I thought we were going to pass it with these things that we've discussed and bring back up we were and then we said where we could uh postpone for further consideration of on a first reading until the regular city council meeting not have the advertising cost and we would in November 9th I believe that next regular meeting yes sir we would basically take the first reading again and took away the risks of that to give it uh the public I think more opportunity to understand at a minimum what's going on and it did start there but it's well I just I just think you know that the rooftop amend amenities in paragraph line number 27 um a section of article 7 it says rooftop amenities are not intended to increase the building story height or accommodate functions that could otherwise occupy enclosed spaces within the I think that kind of you know addresses the height thing I just think that this is an important amenity and you know for the people for the hotels that have spent the extra money to reinforce the top roof for things we shouldn't limit what they can use them for um and I I have faith in the staff Brianna and her crew and to bring this back a cleaner version and not belay it again another month yeah I think that if we go through first reading tonight upon the worst thing that could happen is we would postpone that second reading say we weren't ready for whatever reason or it wasn't right then that would result in advertising costs and we were trying to say well if we wanted to go through it um and avoid that we could I'm I I am confident that on the next meeting it'll be within reach to I think get it across the line the uh and if we want to go through uh with the motion on the floor which is to adopt it as written and I seconded that she said as amended yeah as amended with revisions yeah okay so that motion's on the floor you want to go through with it um like I said I have confidence in the staff that she's have real concerns but I think it could be dressed and cleaned up by the next reading which will move this whole thing forward is that does staff want more time or would that be okay that works for us okay I'm I'm fine with doing that and then the second reading we'll have to address it there and um sounds good council member Willis did that make sense the motion on the floor is to adopt it with the revisions our city clerk has that motion that we discussed want to make sure you're clear um I'm I'm very good with that okay any further discussion I'll support it city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis four okay ordinance number 20 2024 amending chapter 82 um with the revisions passes 40 it is 8 uh excuse me 8:30 3 35ish uh we are it's got to be one of those I know um I think we should take we have got one more uh excuse me two more um public hearing items call for a a recess here does that sound good I need to make an announcement so we're going to do a recess it's 8:35 let's do try do 10 minutes come back um our bathrooms are currently uh the restrooms downstairs um are currently closed getting um some improvements uh made due to some issues after the hurricane so if you do uh need to use the restroom Lisa here can help uh just come out to the common area and uh there's first floor restrooms available for anyone um where back in the city uh City staff work area and so with that see you guys back in 10 minutes thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay we ready yep all right all right it's 851 p.m. we are I call the meeting back to order coming back from Recess we're right in the middle of our public hearing items we just finished item number a ordinance number 202024 and now we are on to item number nine which is ordinance number 21 2024 uh amending the section 547 of the city code Rel relateded to hours of operation and general use of city parks for city electric vehicle charging stations before we go to our City attorney council member Willis can you hear me okay thank you at any point uh feel free to interject if if you if you're not hearing anything and we'll we'll do our best to try and make sure you can pick up what we're saying and so with that Mr City attorney hey this is ordinance 21-2024 an ordinance of the city council of the City of Cape canaville Florida amending section 54-7 of the city code related to hours of operation and general use of city parks for city electric vehicle charging stations providing for the repeal of Prior inconsistent ordinances and resolutions incorporation into the code severability and an effective day this is first reading of this item also a public hearing um this is a housekeeping matter um as you recall the city council adopted a resolution to um expand the ability to charge electric vehicles and um city parks um this ordinance um modifies the code consistent with that um allowing um those charging areas to have extended hours for purposes of charging electric vehicles on City owned or controlled electric vehicle charging stations mayor yes thank you this is an ordinance so this is one of two readings and city manager we could go sorry city clerk if we could go to the ordinance um page two of three uh it's just easiest to just read this to let the record reflect exactly what we're doing with this so if we go to page two so we've left in there for reference section A that says all city parks shall be closed during the evening time period That's from Sunset to Dawn which is sunrise unless otherwise provided here in sign stating Park hour should be posted so that's that's an existing code the section c which follows within that section is where we're we're amending that and it says currently the city council by resolution or the city manager by administrative rule May adopt more restrictive or extended hours for any particular city park on a case-by casee basis if legitimate circumstances warrant hours of operation different than those set forth in a above and what we're adding to this such basis may include but shall not be limited to allowing certain limited areas within a city Park to be open for extended hours to allow the charging of electric vehicles at city-owned or controlled electric vehicle charging stations providing the charging is occurring in a manner that complies with the charging terms and conditions established by the city so what that does is it gives us um an ability to work in real time if as necessary if it's if we need to to to pull it back um but also to allow uh this charging to happen overnight um and talking with um Zach who was very instrumental in writing this he spoke with the bvar County Sheriff's Office and as far as a matter of enforcement would simply be if a vehicle's plugged into a charging station and it's parked there overnight and this is in effect there's no citation or there's no problem for that but if this is not in effect and a vehicle is parked overnight that would be a citable offense potentially or at least they get their attention so what this does is it allows us to to open it up at three city parks where they are so manate park banana Park and naal City Park the Chargers that are there can be approved once this ordinance is approved for overnight charging Council may recall a few months ago we put in overnight charging at City Hall this is as Anthony said the the companion ordinance to that uh we also adopted a no Idol fee for that period of time so if you're plugged in you go home you go to sleep it's charging it tops off at some point while you're asleep you're not getting charged an idle feed overnight for that that would apply here as well we would open this up for all three City Parks for all EV charging stations and as long as they're plugged in they they're leave it there overnight they get past uh I believe at 6:00 a.m. is when the idle fee stops being free then then they start paying idle fees uh and then if we have a problem there's a let's say there's a park that there's concerns in the neighborhood because people are parking there and charging we can pull back that one park and still not affect the other one so I think the way this is worded is is really well done and I I commend the city attorney's office for this mayor thank you so it's it's four locations I think three in which three are parks one city hall yes sir okay this is a public hearing item council do we have any uh questions for City staff before going to the public I have none and we can any I guess technical questions just to clarify said that we we're all on the same page and council member Jackson I wasn't aware that we were including Manatee Park did I miss something I'm just reading the summary here uh the first paragraph of the summary mhm last sentence or that that yeah kind of in the middle between um all six stations is the first words on the agenda cover cover it says between all six stations 12 total plugs are available these charging stations can be found at the city Cape Canaveral Community Center within Canaveral city park one station two plugs Cape Canaveral City Hall three station six plugs manate Sanctuary Park one station two plug and banana banana River Park one station two plug so 12 plug six stations so we're going to leave the gate open at Manatee uh that's a great question will the gate be left open at Manatee Sanctuary Park what I spoke to Molly about that and she says the gate is left open yeah that's what I was going to are there any access at all on any of those that would need to be open to allow this Banana River is not gated city park is not gated City Hall is not gated another technical question if somebody parks at City Hall now that's not an electric charging station is there that's not a problem because it's not a city park today people there's no code that would prohibit that so sir okay but a city in the other three Parks mentioned and no overnight parking correct okay attachment to under e other terms and condition of usage M all EV charging stations located at Manatee Sanctuary Park will be programmed to cease operations at 9:30 and resume at 6:30 so is that I guess that's changing CU that's that's the previous ordinance that was approved by Council okay um so this is in addition to that where were you just reading council member Jackson are the attachment three page two of three attachment two okay page two of three attachment two so that that other terms and condition abusage should have changed is what you're saying city manager are you you're referring to um resolution 20 24 8 E2 uhuh any provision of the city code prohibiting or limiting overnight parking on city- owned property including city parks such as manal Park p park can shall remain in full force and effect so this ordin or this resolution does keep that in in effect and then what we have in the new ordinance it amends section 547 which says the city council by resolution or the city manager May adopt more restrictive or extended hours for any particular city park on a case-by casee basis and such baces may include EV charging so we've got a general pro prohibition as you referenced in the earlier resolution and then we've got this ordinance which would allow for exceptions to that General prohibition and what you just read where was that Todd in the new one attachment three what line or um uh yeah it's um the the line the one on the screen M uh starting at line eight okay I'm with you thank you sir so the hour extend the hours I think it would have to come Mr Mayor y the way that the way the um the manager kind of touched upon 54-7 says that all parks have to be closed during evening time period from Dust to Dawn mhm and then sub paragraph C says that the council by resolution or the manager by administrative rule May adopt more restrictive or extended hours right under certain circumstances the additional language is actually spelling out one such circumstance where the city council or the city manager can can extend or restrict the hours such basis includes EV charging it's City at city-owned and controlled electric charging stations so the council would have to then modify I think resolution um 20248 if it wished to extend those EV charging hours um Beyond what's stated in the resolution I believe Todd because yeah the resolution is not in the code it's more of the operation and what we're adopting possibly after second reading of this one is something that would change the code changes the code to recognize that Parky was can be extended for EV charging if the council authorizes by resolution or the manager authorizes by administrative rule so to to the resolution that's in the package for background 20248 I believe would have to be um amended because that states that EV charging stations located at manate Banana River and canaval city park will be programmed to cease at 9:30 p.m. every evening and resume operations at 6:30 a.m. right how would you amend that H how would you amend that well it would come back a second second reading of the ordinance I guess if because I think that's the last the resolution resolu with the second would be paired with second reading of the ordinance if the council's desire is to have that overnight right charging I thought we had previously addressed it but I don't think we we did if because resolution 2024 d08 is in the package that appears to be the the current rules and I had a question to signage if it's Manatee Park because manate park has multiple places where you can park and if overnight parking is allowed for charging how are we going to do new signs stating that it's okay to park there if you're only if you're charging an e overnight I think that's a great idea because how is anyone going to know they're just going to think the Park's open and I don't want to increase the amount of patrols and that type of thing that bcso may encounter having to be over there cuz that's kind of a dark area other than the residences that are there yeah I think that's a good point and and technically those cars are paying now they're getting electricity in return um but are they are they paying a isn't there like an admin fee or use just a flat fee to use the space yes um forget the structure of it now it's been a while but yeah I guess that's a that's a key difference and but it's the same that you would pay during the daytime that you would pay plugged in at night the only thing that's different at night is there's no idle fee I guess I'm pointing out that the regular car that whips into the spot and says he can park here or she can why can't I well they're actually paying small fee uh that's not for electricity just a flat use fee yeah and um okay so this is sort of like the enabling ordinance that would allow us to come back and and pass the resolution correct that you're talking about correct and the signage idea to help I think is a great idea which nothing needs to change in here city manager I think has full ability to do signs as you see fit that's great um council member Willis good okay so uh good with the ordinance and uh just want to address the letters going out to condos and expand not just condos but how yes sir U Citywide there is um an attachment to this as an example of a letter that council member Willis is referring to okay um I think it's at the end yeah it's at the end of the item that's it um and this was written as an example for something we could send to um the condominium associations but that doesn't mean we would limit it to that Briana have you talk to Zach about that about how he intends to further conduct Outreach on this yes I have actually um So the plan is to I'm pulling it up right now my notes um to have messaging on all social media that the city has um the weekly update probably more than just one of them um the website and then also within charging station wayfinding apps such as plug share um as well as our digital Marquee to the extent that it I know it had some damage in the hurricane um to further promote and also let the hoteliers know so they can pass the info to their guests that's what he intended for the plan and we're open to Direction yeah so to councilor me member Willis's question uh this is meant as an example of how we might do an Outreach not the only Outreach we would do okay yeah I think um when when I heard letter I was thinking like a mailed letter maybe for the the hotels might be more direct but it sounds like all the channels we use that you just listed um but nothing in the mail which I'm okay with I'm not I know I've wanted mail on certain like bigger things for me this is more of an amenity and access a use that doesn't require postage unless yeah I don't think that's what y'all intended and I'm not saying that that's something no we're not we're not set on that we're we're more talking about the message that would go out well thank you for yeah I think that uh are we okay with this letter I think that's a and and what Brianna I think that's well within administrative sphere scope and that sounds great my two sense um I'm actually excited to see some marketing because we've discussed that since the EV Workshop in January so that's fantastic we need people to know that those stations are available and the expansion of the hours are definitely going to give people an an alternative so sometimes it's hard for people that work to charge during the day MH it really does tap into the window of time when most people aren't driving their cars I mean it's the ideal time mayor PR Tim yeah I have a question and I don't really know anything about electric cars but if we're going to advertise with the hotels and we have one station with two plugs at Manatee Sanctuary Park and the same with Banana River Park and we have 10 hotels over there what happens when you're car is charged and somebody else wants to charge their car and their I mean is there a way because we're letting them idle for yeah that that's the purpose of the idle fee when it in effect is to encourage them to you're full you're full move along let somebody else have this or you're going to pay this idle fee it goes away at nighttime right but we can track it's a great question what they can they consumed in electricity cuz I think that what you just made me think about is would we have scenarios where people with electric cars are just using the parking space well not only that now my my car is charged but I'm sleeping and there's five other people behind me that want to charge their car you mean overnight yeah that that could happen that could happen and then what if we have fist fights in the park that's a good reason they close off that Park from B Park charging I'm just saying I you know how do we monitor in you I think if we found that that was we would be able to verify if that's became a problem by the use you know if they charge for 30 minutes and it sat there for eight hours and they just needed a little top off you know it's I I get that um and I think might want to think about I guess it gets back to the idol fee active physical late enforcement which not so but if we if we do away with the idle fee at night aren't we just making the problem well we're currently doing that at City Hall now right with no idle fee and we've been under that for a couple months I believe without a problem but your point is you're in the commercial Corridor over here you got potentially a lot more visitors over there yeah I don't own an EV either but as as the mayor said or ban said there's an app that tells you whether plug is free or not so you wouldn't go there and wait you would check before you went I would assume free isn't available you mean it's not not an session not free um cost in I just want to clarify you can see if it's open and available free to use free to use yeah available to use a better way yeah we can also alter our plan to just do all the digital marketing and not that targeted marketing say that again Briana we so that was Zach's plan but we are totally open for Direction so if you want us to continue with the or with the plan to do digital marketing those different methods I listed um we can stick to that and not do the targeted marketing such as letters to business owners or whatnot I think it might make sense to start and hold off the hotels to I mean if y'all see that as a way to and then I think the goal would be um we don't want them sitting empty either and so if necessary you could move into targeting at that point and try to keep them full but also keep them moving well it's really an amenity for the residents that's where it is Briana I'm sorry go ahead do you have the number of uh charges and that inform I was looking for it for it was in our agenda for September because our problem wasn't worrying about too many people we literally had no one using these things we had so few people using it so I was curious because we didn't get a chance to go over that in September so knowing those numbers might help us to understand um what our goal might absolutely I'd be happy to return um as an informational item um that talks about what those numbers look like now over time just in terms of oh we we released another weekly update and had a surge and people parking there for example um I'm I'm not sure if there's a simple way I don't know enough about the system to know if there's a way to automate understanding that total amount but if sounds like maybe there is and we can certainly do that I know it was in our September agenda so I'm not even have that I'm just having a problem finding it and whether it's informational we we'll have another reading of this one as well oh yes that's true M so we could even attach it as an will do directly to the item for sure or Zach will that works thank you and I'm sorry I interrupted no and we still need to go to the public council member Willis are you here and everybody i'ms not okay please get to the microphon okay everyone please try to talk directly into the microphone and we are do you have any questions some of the comments that were made were uh in response to your uh letter comment and and help to draft is maybe uh go forward as the digital plan that they said and the concern from mayor protim Kellum about the um Hotel guests not using the space uh what instead of residents but also just improperly using it uh idling and since we wav the idle fee um we were talking about being able to track um from the app and and see and monitor that and and said maybe we just start with the uh the original plan hold off on the hotels and if there's vacancies over time maybe reach uh further and council member Jackson asked about the data um the usage um and so between now and the next reading hopefully we can take a look at that uh data on the second and final reading and um I think that's a summary of If you missed anything I think the only other one is about putting the signage up indicating what this parking is allowed for authorized for which city manager has full ability to put up signage and I think one if we do this and uh this is the enabling ordinance we would have to come back on the second reading and amend the resolution I assume at the November meeting um does that make sense you hear me thank you very much the council member uh Willis uh confident we can get the data and uh use that to I think address some of these issues there's not anything else will go out to public council member Willis thank you Council we okay with that this is a public hearing item if anyone would like to speak we're on item number nine ordinance number 21 2024 please come forward uh yes Dr Roberts I have your card here thank you very much the floor is yours and this is a tangential matter I'm so sorry it's the Banana River charging station location you may remember several meetings ago I had mentioned the location of that charging station relative to the handicap parking and I know councilman uh Willis was going to follow up and do what he could to kind of research that and so forth and the reason I raise that now is that as we continue to support the infrastructure and the and so forth of the charging stations I thought it timely to bra raise it again and the point is that the Ada parking spot there is just it's counterintuitive as to where the EV charging spot is it's like the Ada handicap spot would have put been put where the charging station is and the charging station would seem would have been put off to the side so I'm raising in that again I don't know what the followup was if any if anything or if it's just um not a considered a priority to investigate I don't know Todd do you know any I don't have specific information about the layout I don't recall what it looks like but I know that when a handicapped parking space is established it's supposed to be on the closest accessible route to the primary function area and it's not and that's the reason it's an anomaly it's the only one M of all the other locations where it's just in my observation and using it it just makes the handicapp person have to beer off to the left in order to get into the walkable area into the into the Pavilion mayor if if it's okay I realize this is a separate issue sorry it is separate I I'd like to ask Briana to have her staff look into that and see if we need to possibly amend that parking space location or if it complies thank you Banana River Banana River Park council member Willis I don't know if you heard that talking about the handicap access for Banana River Park if you have an any update on that I spoke sidewalk near the the handicap spot but we would also have to break the uh curb I believe um anyway I'm just raising it because it's an obvious um anomaly I guess it would be the way I would put it from from the public use of it for handicap purposes thank you I'm sorry it is a separate it know but it's related to the charging station thank you thank you mayor and Briana the bilding official did raise his hand I don't know if he wants to comment on this I thank you thank you mayor thank you okay any other public comments public hearing item number nine ordinance 21 2024 and those of you listening at home please raise your hand and we'll unmute you as well seeing none we'll go ahead and close public hearing Council make a motion we adopt ordinance number 212 24 okay got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum and a second by council member wless to adopt ordinance number 21 2024 any discussion now that we've work through I just add my my recording of consensus is that we would also return with with an amended resolution 20248 as we discussed um we would have the Outreach be only digital and after approval and hold off on the hotels for the time being sign and I found the numbers for up to the end of June so our charging generated revenue is $2,316 this is for the year um through June through June J um from the start date this was no this was the last the last three months so it would have been April May and June um had 161 plugins at the community center Manatee Park had 224 plugins the total plugins um as far as total charging sessions was 818 um idle fee generated was $251 um the cumulative charging time recorded was 2,000 and 19 hours or 84 days and so um that was the numbers that he was reporting from well and actually that's not June numbers that's year to date okay June April to June we generated $869 um with a charging revenue of $729 idle fee of $104 and total I total charging time was $663 hours or 27 days 280 charging sessions and at manate Park there were 79 49 at the community center Banana River Park have 43 City Hall had um 109 so that was for April 1st to June those numbers so I don't think um cars being in the way of a problem I think it's increasing the usage is why he does that app break down day and night charging or it does it has um a lot of it's pretty robust in the reporting on those stations and this was in the um July package that we have with our meeting agenda package in the reports um and there's graphs and it tells you the time let's see I'm trying to look at overnight for you Micky or mayor Pro 10 um so we had some like a couple examples is on 45 from 11:29 p.m. 12 I'm looking at these trying to make sure and see on time it does break it down it you'd have to look at it cuz it's a 24hour clock and you have to kind of compile them together I can look it up I just thought maybe you had a number off the top of your head there but um that's fine and I think um we'll be able to get the most current up to-date data at the second reading but yeah that that's Q2 it sounds like the $869 which 729 of it was electricity um uh yeah I think that's very helpful and hopefully this this helps um is we got the motion on the floor the second are there any other uh city manager clarified I think the items second reading yeah council member Willis you tracking everything we you know it all oh the informational item thank you [Music] [Applause] all right I think I mean these are installed electricals ran these aren't easy fix is that you know to even to that's why the handicap very good point is a difficult um we should do everything we reasonably can to try and keep them optimized and used and um I think this is a way to do it at a at an optimal time for people to charge their vehicles are there any other comments concerns questions I'm supporting it looking forward to everything on the second reading and uh again yes thank you all for putting it together um City attorney any comments anything concerns cover the mayor okay council member Jackson you good I'm good good all right city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis okay thank you ordinance number 21 2024 uh passes 40 on first reading and the final public hearing item number 10 consideration of cape view Coastal parcel number 24 3723 cg11 preliminary plat approval with conditions we are at 9:28 I definitely would like to just and this is the last one uh make sure we try to get through this uh and if it looks like we're not I'd like to check at like 9:45 so we're not running up and I'm not saying we spend less time just try to all maybe get our first comments get it out to the public if needed and try to bring it back but with that let's go ahead and kick it over to our City attorney oh no not needed on this one right city manager no reading needed I'm sorry I'd be glad to of course we need your help but city manager thank you thank you this is a Redevelopment site that's pre previously had 10 units uh the proposal is to subdivide it into four lots and be four units so it's a a net decrease in density um applying the townhouse code uh section of the city code uh this this um final replat also required we requested the site plan be submitted at the same time to make sure the the preliminary replat meshed with the site plan site plan revie was reviewed under all applicable codes and uh includ under the townhouse code regulations and it resulted um in a few rounds and back and forth in delays which were unfortunate but uh sometimes that happens but we got a product here that we think meets all our codes with some noted exceptions and those are the the comments that remain from kimley Horn uh they are here tonight to discuss those comments answer any questions also I see in the audience is the project engineer Mr Jor thank you welcome and we have the applicant here as well as John dismore Brian would you like to add anything more to that before we proceed um sure thing yeah so we these applications were heard concurrently by Planning and Zoning Board um and the code states that a preliminary plat um the Planning and Zoning Board must make a recommendation on that to council for Council to make the ultimate decision but it states that for site plan review the discretionary site plan um that they recom that the Planning and Zoning Board fors a recommendation to the director for final approval however on this one Planning Commission conditioned their approve their recommendation of approval for the preliminary PL excuse me for the site plan review on the preliminary plot so simply put I can't review and approve the plan until Council reviews and approves the plat the preliminary plot okay thank you for explaining that uh so approving the site plan upon the conditions laid out and recommended here in the plat um sorry to clarify um because it is confusing so um city council has a responsib ility of approving approving conditions or denying the preliminary plat with all the information that you all have been given which includes the site plan um on the basis of the seven findings required for approval that are outlined in the staff report thank you the public hearing item and thank you all for being here today Council any uh questions right now may mayor put Tim Kellum I don't have any Oh I thought you said I had one I'm sorry um council member Willis any questions at this [Music] time appr approve not any connection to a site that that's that's what I understand yes that Briana would approv the site plan in pnz I'm sorry yeah I can talk to that so um playing and Zoning Board their recommendation for approval of a site plan which city code has me as the Director excuse me as the final approver of this discretionary site plan application they conditioned I can't review and approve it until city council reviews and approves it um I do want to mention that this is the our being here I think seven weeks now at the city um there is a the code is describes site plan review as you know it in building permit applications but capitalized site plan review is a discretionary application which is what Planning and Zoning Board heard and they conditioned the approval of that on the preliminary plat approval excuse me review and decision tonight um so after all this say everything gets approved reviewed and approved they still have to go through the building permit process which requires um not only a final review of the complete set of plans not just the prelimin these plans um inspection during construction it it requires um the applicant to submit a certificate of completion request where staff reviews the as builts of what was actually built to ensure it complies with the approved site plan and then also each staff member performs a final inspection to ensure and if at any step of the way there's discrepancy the um applicant or property owner is required to go they have two options they can fix it on site so it matches the plans or they can submit an application that would allow them to request approval of such a change as already predefined by code thank you and it's it six months between preliminary plat and final plat before we'd have to come back and approve that so that's what our code says but in my experience that's extremely short so we talked about that in this case what we would end up doing and I'm not sure if the applicant is aware of this but our code says that a preliminary plat approval is valid for six months and it can't be extended so I think what we would do was just ask the applicant to come back for an extension assuming the project is not completed in six months to to clarify yet not that it's completed but that they would go to the final plat because you all will see this again at the towards the end for final plat the preliminary plat gets approved site plan theoretically gets approved they get their where does the permits they construct they make sure it matches up the final plat comes where in the process they have the option of when it comes but they can't receive final certificate of occupancy until final plat is complete could they get the final plat before permits there's nothing in our code that prohibits that but um I I prefer that we wait until we're much closer to the end of the project to do the final PL mhm okay City attorney anything need to add or well I think the applicant here is also is here to present and as as Todd indicated you know once a preliminary plat is approved the applicant can then um get the permits to begin construction I think the thought process of the plan of the applicant is to get the preliminary plat um get then get the site plan approved then pull permits begin construction and then you know when they're done con with the construction come in for a final plat approval and the six-month issue we would potentially extend if they weren't able to because the permits have a oneye the permits um have a six-month lifespan but every approved inspection kicks it out another six months okay that might is that just a code change maybe that's 6 months is Briana said it's short the preliminary potentially because if it if if that's ideal that final plat follows later stage permitted construction work agreed 6 months isn't a lot of time especially when the permits typically go yeah I'd like to ask Brianna to work with the city attorney's office on a better recommendation and a code change for that that's great thank you okay with that this is a public hearing item um Council if we're ready you can go to the public sound good and the applicant uh the applicant is here John dmore okay if you have something you want to present or public hearing item it is open the floor is yours yeah Mr mayor council member no dra Associates I'm a project engineer uh we agree with the conditions and I have nothing to add and uh we go through the primary plat and final plot afterwards after the construction is done what is your name I'm sorry n o e l d r o o r and not fill out the form thank you in the engineering you you're the uh PE the engine of that project get dra on Associates and it what was the name d r o o r oh asso the company yes d r o o r thank you very much and you're okay with everything that that you've heard okay any this is a public hearing item um if you don't have anything else to present or state thank you we might have some questions but I think uh we'll open it up to anyone else who'd like to speak anyone online and mayor kimley horn is here I don't know if you want to present anything or if you're just here for questions just for questions okay okay seeing no more we'll go ahead and close public hearing item unless we have questions we still close we can come back to that Council have a couple questions council member Jackson okay so we've had some instances in our city where we had elevated Lots one of them is in Harbor Heights that has created flooding to adjacent Lots around it um also we have some other tow houses here in town that have some flooding issues and they're elevated where their neighbors across the street aren't now that's a low point and I'm sure y'all all know which ones I'm discussing but I know that um looking at the plans uh we had the bm2 magnil corner elevation at 6.54 FT and the center of the units are at 8 ft so that's a good foot and a half or 1.46 ft difference um are we sure that we're not going to have flooding onto adjacent properties with the elevation at that point okay question is is really about flooding with the elevations who's the best answer that I think you please come forward council member Willis um is this kimling horn say they're coming forward did you hear that question council member Willis yes I did okay thank you hello hi good evening uh mallerie Clancy kimley horon Associates Tucker Hunter kimley horon Associates so uh kimley horn represents the city as the city engineer and performs reviews of site plans um as well as uh the preliminary plat that's being requested here um we would be happy to look at any proposals or any um designs to see if they have any um to see if they comply with code um we can't say for certain or for you know for sure or uh for sure that it will not cause flooding um what we can say and what we have reviewed is whether it meets code and to the extent of our ability we have we have decided that it meets code and have approved with the conditions that are shown here and so thank you I appreciate you s on that so um I know that their setbacks look good um we determined U Miss SS and the city manager and I work together on setbacks and making sure that they were correct um it looks like they've got you know their drainage planned and that kind of thing um but I'm a little worried with what we've seen especially last week y'all please excuse me for even talking about flooding but um just making sure that we've got everything covered and I think think that the it it looks fine to me but our code is what I'm worried about not not their plan because I believe they went through by plan and in some cases um Miss so made sure that it was it was actually over so um but when I look at our plan city manager and Council and you do a comparison between like our two requirements and tow houses we've got some things for the R2 that are defined with minimum and maximum we've got some that are just defined with a minimum and not a maximum I mean it goes back and forth so um city manager are we consistent on these I mean I literally had to do a comparison you created a matrix I created a matrix to try to to to check this because it's uh with the tow houses and then we've got our R2 District you know you have to determine which one you know is superseding the other and trying to ensure that we're not um allowing too much lock coverage um that we're allowing enough on setbacks and on elevation to me is important because we've seen flooding in areas where there's too much um impervious uh pavement and so I'm that's where I'm looking at I think it'll be a lovely addition to our city I don't I don't want yall to think I'm after you because that's not it I just want to make sure we're not causing any flooding issues because we've had a couple issues and I think it's our code that may need some tightening up and we've discussed this in Prior Council so yeah I I want to applaud you for your analysis and your work with me and going over this site plan in detail and coming up with those questions that ban answered thank you very much for that I think we do need this won't affect this approval because this approval appears to completely comply with our city code but for future city codes and amendments with the current concern for storm water and our two lot doesn't know the difference from storm water between 35% lot coverage and 40% lot coverage it's still there's an increase in impervious space for Town Homes uh we're we're looking for more consistency and reduction um of impacts from storm water so that's one of the things we want to look at for future code amendments and so my thank you city manager my point is I think at some point Council we're going to have to have a look at this because it literally is defining different things based on if it's R2 or townhouse and exactly what city manager said we want to make sure we're not missing something and creating a flooding situation when we've just seen that that was a pretty stressful situation for our residents so that's all I had and I appreciate you all answering that because I wasn't sure um if you could answer that and say oh no that we're good but I think this needs to be cleaned up for you all to be able to do a great job engineering and ensure that our developers are able to develop and be happy people so so thank you that's all I had thank you mayor I believe Mr drawer would like to address the council again thank you thank thank you yes council member Willis yes no Mr drill one moment please if you don't mind please I know you were just called it council member Willis needs to say something so the question was do we have a calculation of the total Val volume I guess in in storm water that this property would hold so the Mr drel the engineer on the project is here at the public uh stand and I believe did you hear that question you can help with that I guess I did it's kind of hard to hear all the questions there but uh just to explain uh the the property previously was uh the existing 10 unit uh Apartments there were no drainage whatsoever there were uh all the water was draining into the street and uh by your code what is required that when you develop any property that the amount of water that goes after development to be same as before development so if you look at it before development you had nothing after development you're going to have the drainage so actually the amount of water that is going to go to the street or to the public uh sore water should be less than what it was uh when the building was there so and by your code and the St John codes every every other CES that we follow the codes is that the the post condition which being after development should be same as the pre-development which is what it was previously so just to explain that as far as that you're concerned about that uh you know uh the drainage and flooding it actually should relief if there was a drainage problem it should help with the building this because there was no drainage before there is drainage now right so there was um I'm showing that the O from what I researched that the old structure was 3510 square feet is that okay and what will the new structures be the because our maximum lot coverage was showing more so was that again I don't have the numbers to be honest Me Maybe if I don't have this wrong tell you the exact numbers I'll look at it cuz I've got the a little bit more than what the existing was when you look at the uh the parking they had and the the sidewalks and so forth there is more but you got to consider it as I said there was no drainage before but there is a drainage now yes there is little bit more we are proposing that what it used to be okay thank you I appreciate that and I know you said you couldn't hear us council member Willis's question actually goes with I think coun are there any calculations on your on the plans here that we can look at on the volume yes that's smart fact your engineers went through that a few times we had few Subs that we had to do for IT me annual storm and also for 25 years so which is a storm that happens every 25 years and lasts for 24 hours and it's about the 99 and2 in of runoff and that's what we have to calculate for but we we have to go but what your Cod say if you know you don't like your codes you got to change your Cod and all we can do is follow codes and uh so but that's what we got to do that's what we we have is there a place on the plans there that we can see those calculations it's a separate handout it's a like a 100 page calculation that uh 8 half 11 it was submitted to the city city has on the record and uh I'm sure they can provide it if you uh if you need it it's in the it's in the package mayor it's you look the PDF there's a drainage plan and on the drainage plan in the right hand column a drainage calculations you have the PDF um it's one page 172 of the PDF it's on which sheet uh drainage plan C300 sheet four of seven the drainage plan titled at the bottom council member Willis do you see the drainage plan uh page four or well I think this is one of them that you're talking City attorney go next page sheet 47 C300 drainage plan MH I got it and so up in the right hand see drainage calculation up on the top right hand corner yep thank you here's a summary of the drainage calculation there but not the entire yeah that's fine this is all I need it's 100 page uh booklet mhm this property did not have drainage prior that it depends I think when it was built my my guess is that the city code wouldn't have been as strong as it is now this might have been built before the city was even a city the previous building so if that if it was uh is it accurate to say that our code allows to basically if if it really was catching zero water that technically he could that pre that pre definition is defined as your condition and and you might speak to that what pre means pre means the way it sits today the way it sits today that's a pre okay and uh so the pause being you know when you develop it how it looks like but the drainage calculation note says the entire the entire on-site area to drain into proposed retention Pond there will be a net decrease of 4,185 squ Ft area not draining into existing right away right the net increase yes can be increase in what it used to be there yes the decrease a 4,185 square ft area at least from an area standpoint inre is on the the sheet c200 uh that tells you the what existing and what was proposed uh c200 thank you okay so that's page three of seven on the plans um titled site plan the site plan yeah the site plan under the tabulation it has the existing building existing Paving and and so forth okay again there is a there is an increase in the impious definely not saying that there is there's not a reduction but there's increase but we accommodated for increase by providing okay council member Willis did that drainage plan get to some or did you want the the more detailed CS that our our city staff reviewed um those I think could be provide I think Kyle and in the I think he sent a pretty big PDF file or or someone um I hav I was hoping there was more and what are you trying to determine what I the it was area it wasn't volume I think it's it's a the it's based on the area the volume is based on the area is like when the basically when you have the the previous area it water runs off less than when you have the impervious area and the volume there is a tabulation you have to go through and there is a you know ratio attached and the sign to each one and you go through that and you determine what's the runoff what's the volum that you have and again it's not just a simple you know it have to it's a computer r that you go through and to determine all those numbers thank you um this is preliminary plat with some conditions it is still out to public hearing are there anyone else who who would like to speak on this item thank you Mr seeing none go ahead and bring it back to the council and and talk through so drainage I share that concern I think we all do thank you to our um Engineers for reviewing I think there's still going to be some once the site plan approved are there any construction plans are those ready to go in this as well or will those no that's part of the building permit process okay council member Willis um I appreciate your your question and and I think um if you are concerned about something and maybe you need some time to look into it I would be interested as well um I haven't looked as close certainly haven't looked at those numbers but just getting familiar our Engineers have reviewed it it complies with the code uh whether our code is a uh helps with drainage is another question but um today we are I think looking at a set of plans that that are code compliant and and that's the burden I think we need to overcome today that's what we've heard today okay we should go through those conditions maybe is that yes uh for the record important part so I think those are on the agenda cover uh the back page the numbered four I items right in front of us thank you so to approve the the preliminary plat with these conditions we want to go through these each yes please okay I'd be happy to read them if you prefer I think that would be great sure the first one is about an area where a sidewalk is covering it's about the Triangular portion of the new sidewalk that crosses the northwest corner of the private property shall be dedicated as an access easement for the city prior to obtaining the co for this portion as well as the remaining public improvements within the RightWay the applicant shall supply a performance bond certified check or letter of credit based on the city engineer's cost estimate for the public improvements the second one is um and the rest of them are details about um utilities second one is 4-in public water main shall comply with the separation requirements of Florida administrative code 62555 314 thirdd condition is the separation requirement between the Sewer Lateral and the storm pipe shall comply with Bard County vertical separation requirements as specified in detail US 60 of the 6in minimum minimum and finally number four mayor the sewer pipe slope shall be a minimum of 1/8 inch per foot which is equivalent to 1.04% grade in compliance with Florida building code section 74.1 thank you we are at uh 9:58 p.m. would we like to go ahead and extend necessary time got a motion by mayor per Tim Kellum a second by council member Willis to extend to 10:30 pm any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum four mayor Morrison for council member Willis okay extended 10:30 40 back city manager just finished reading the uh conditions Council any any concerns questions on this um motion that we approve the cap view Coastal preliminary plat with the I'll second that motion got a motion by mayor per Tim Cullum got a second by council member Jackson to approve the preliminary plat with the following conditions just read basically as written um any discussion where I guess are we with it overall it be good I think for me is if the flooding is addressed if the um path is uh from what I saw in the pnz it was a um I appreciate a lot of the things that that the thoroughness that that went through we don't do a lot of these a year couple I think I've done one may hug did two or three a year in and so uh but we also learned they're really important and that final reading will come back to this Council final PL final plat thank you um and obviously as Briana talked about the cosos um are there any concerns any uh issues that that maybe yes it's code compliant but uh this Council should consider to ensure that that flooding and and drainage is we we do need to have a a harder look at our codes after this um for future development yeah and I'd like kimley Horn's help with that okay and is that because we think that this this property won't drain as well based on the current no we we we think this one this property will drain just as fine as any other property that's been built to code it's just with Lessons Learned From storm water over previous four or five years maybe our codes need to be updated a little bit has nothing to do with the approval of this project tonight though thank you City attorney thank you for your work on that um a pause council member Willis I'm happy to address that question so um the site plan was recommended for approval by Planning and Zoning upon approval of the preliminary plot which is before us tonight the site plan approval per code the recommendation from Planning and Zoning should it all be approved as they as they uh motioned is then up to the director to prove that it meets those findings required for approval which are different and were also reviewed by all of the subject matter experts and staff as well as the Planning and Zoning Board um and so I'd look at that approve it and then they could submit for building permits and there's further review at that point when you get that Full Construction Set um the the full set that um every single the engineer um all those listed in the staff report uh that kind of laid out um I created a flowchart that walks through this I'd love to share with you guys at some point that might help but it'll be in the Sops there's multiple yes those will be in the Sops when I get to present them um and so they there are multiple points when that is re um reconfirmed I should say council member Willis did that were you able to hear I think that's aun I think there'll be a some intermittent approval processes along the way uh that are going to be able to address any flooding issues right and that's all um provided by our Cod already staff just performs per the code um which I will uh spell out lay out in a in a nice flowchart when I present the Sops Mr City attorney thank you the uh the bond in here for the public Improvement item one that condition is that the only public Improvement are there other it's the only public Improvement on the private property the only I think there's a sidewalk right that's what he's referring to M right and and I'm not sure but I I suspect that the construction of that is going to be done before final final plat is presented to the city council assuming it is there may not even be a necessity of a of a performance bond or letter of credit because the construction work would have been completed before the council takes final action on the final plot that's yet yet to be remains to be seen but I suspect that's what's going to happen okay any other questions council member Jackson or discussion I'm just um I'm more I'm I want to see us attacking our building code because just for example I'm looking at maximum loot coverage R2 requirements um which this is in the R2 Zone 35% MH but for tow houses it's 40 and this is a townhouse yes um and does it meet the 40 it's at 39.6% so it's it meets it's under which that's for impervious or perious that that's the impervious footprint area impervious and then that doesn't include the perv oh it's the it's the building area it doesn't include the sidewalk so when you look at that and you look at all of it yeah then you really see lot coverage but our code doesn't look at it that way yep you're right because the building area is defined as the principal structure exactly it doesn't include the driveway for example yeah or a sidewalk from the driveway to the front door and and I know Brian is really excited about doing a minimum Green Space ordinance on a on a on a maximum lot coverage that would include all that impervious and I want to mention as well I'd love to I it's been a few weeks since we met um we have new staff on board now that has expertise not only in planning but also in resilience and lid review low impact development um as well as existing staff with that experience and so we actually have a whole slew of updates we'd love to propose related to improving the storm water problems in the city through zoning but and that's what I'm concerned with I mean I understand and he has everything I went through all of it and did this Matrix but when we've got two different things in the same zoning area and one allows for more and we're not looking and now this is new because like you're saying city manager and um we're we literally had before we're looking at just the living area as far as loot coverage but now we have driveways we have sidewalks we have um patio areas that we want to have Outdoor Living Spaces the way we were changing our use of our Lots is going to make a difference on our flooding so we've got to take a look at these codes that's my opinion absolutely because we're looking at two different things here and we're and they're going by what we're telling them right so you know what they've done exactly what that we've told them so it's on us in my opinion to clean this up because if we don't we're not going to control flooding that's my opinion and I think elevation even needs to be looked at because we already know there's several places in the city where the lot's elevated and when you have the lower structures next to them and I'm just concerned after what we've seen and all of us have seen our citizens go through and this was this last week was unprecedented it was not our normal thing so boy if we can take care of normal that'll be a good thing and not have to do those things all the time but I think being cognizant of time that as a separate item that absolutely a priority of our department of our city for this item I'm so happy to hear that and thank you city manager for me hearing that too because that's my main concern but I'm ready to move forward y'all go ahead so the the from the code and what we've seen within today we're we're comfortable I am with this everything I looked at they're not only on it in a couple of cases they're a little bit better than so council member Willis okay well with that if there's nothing else we can go ahead and move forward city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor ptim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis all right um ordinance uh approval of preliminary plat approval with conditions for partial 24 3723 cg11 K view Coastal passes thank you all very much 40 which takes us we are at 1010 um we've got a few discussion items I move mine to the uh end we instead of starting I I'm Excuse me that's unprofessional I'm saying mine the one that um I I submitted item number 11 as written uh we're going to go to number 12 if we still choose next and um I I don't know if we will have enough time uh to to get to the the other items so with that if we're ready item number 12 Hurricane Relief efforts and executive order dbpr 20249 rental restrictions for individuals seeking shelter who lost their homes due to Hurricane Helen submitted by council member Jackson and I want to cut about half of this off because it's not applicable anymore it's still applicable but it's in a different way uh staff and I um with our city manager approval we were working together trying to look at ways that we could help with relief in North Carolina upon searching we did find that some monetary uh donations that are given are not given for This Disaster it actually goes to the next disaster so we didn't want to take money out of people's hands and then we found that the organized groups of people that are providing supplies are really doing they're really kind of covering it there are certain areas that are H they're having to get out to them via military and that kind of thing the other thing was the um the state statute that the executive order that was put in and I believe and just wanted to verify with our City attorney that that really deals more with public lodging for hotels where they want to extend the hotel and I'm sorry uh City attorney if I'm throwing you under the bus I didn't mean to if I did but I the more I looked at this I don't think it really has to do with our minimum uh rental restriction on short-term rentals here in the city it's more to do with public lodging where some hotels May um have a shorter period and this allows them to offer a longer period for am I correct on that um I candidly I have to evaluate this a little bit more um I'm not sure I can give you a response okay so we can move past that one the the agenda item yes okay so we still working through this one um do you w to just if you decide to bring it back at the next meeting or that are you talking about a specific item well I just wanted to make sure that we were aware and of the emergency order um it's and it's included in the package um this came out with Helen and then I believe it was extended and our county is is included in that um and due to damage it there were public um potentially indiff people potentially indefinitely residing in public lodging establishments because their residences were rendered uninhabitable and the department of uh the dbpr recognizes that certain codes and other type of local regulations contain Provisions which would prohibit individual idual whose residences were rended rendered uninhabitable due to destruction from residing in transient public lodging for more than 30 days that's typically on a hotel side not on a a short-term rental because short-term rentals will allow you to stay longer than 30 days typically but I was just wanting and we can wait and for um the City attorney to just get back with us when he can evaluate that and ensure that we are compliant with what we're doing with Deckard and our lodging here in the in the city I just wanted to make sure that we knew but we but we need to give him a chance to look at it and we'll look at it and get back to the council and it's really all about relief right and looking at resources yes okay well thank you mayor ptim yeah I just wanted to um discuss with K and the council um in this last hurricane uh and hurricanes before this the VFW has been a drop off place for things that other places need um and we are always willing to be that um because we are you know family oriented City oriented residents taking care of our people even if they're not here and and everything at the VFW goes through National VFW so the vfw's talk to each other like there's North Carolina vfw's that need help and and are asking for specific things but when a crisis like this comes we can always look to the VFW and the American Legion to pull it together and and be a drop off place for thank you so much I'm I'm happy to know that because I've had multiple people ask me where can I take things what can I do and I want to be able to give them information that I know if they take there take that something there that it'll get to the people and that if they pay that it'll get to you know if they want to make a donation it'll get to the people that are having the difficulties now whether it's on our Gulf Coast the Big Bend area or um up in the North Carolina and Tennessee okay well that's always an option I just wanted to put it I appreciate you let me know that city manager if we were done with this item I was going to introduce something just want to check with council member Willis any comments no com okay we're finished council member Jackson City Manager I just wanted to mention um excuse me prior to going to item number 13 uh city manager City attorney and the city manager talked earlier today about possibility that Council might want to consider authorizing a resolution suspending building permit fees to repair storm related damage we've done that in the past the council's done that in the past and and out of a concern for time tonight and how much time we have left and our next meeting is in 30 days um I asked Anthony and he would went ahead and produced a resolution for Council consideration if you want to do it we could do it and very quickly um just to offer that relief and that's the item that Mia has pulled up here and we've got handouts for that too time for how long would it last 6 months and they have to be able to prove that it's related to storm damage it has to be approved by the building official verified as storm damage how do we verify it um we just asked them to submit proof and U pass the sniff test with the building official photographs photographs yeah is there any other yeah I mean okay and the city will go out and and verify that will the city have the ability to obtain its own proof yes of course in addition to of course you know how that can get tricky typically what we'll see is um after a storm is re-roof permits you know we can drive by other missing some shingles or a fence completely blew down yeah you can go see that uh those are the types of things we normally see okay but they still starts with the city uh they no they have to they have to apply for the permit and if they're requesting the fee exemption that's when the building official verifies Council U council member Willis do we need to repeat any of that there's a a fee exemption request upon a permit application for 6 months upon proof of storm related damage yes sir per building permit fee waivers building permit fee waivers and they have to request the exemption yes okay is Hurricane I'm very good with that yes thank you mayor protim a hurricane helim is not part of it just Milton um Anthony this is just for Milton correct correct and I want to thank Anthony for bringing it to my attention because it's it's very timely that looks like a Helen sh I mean they were so close together yeah what I mean but yes it understood what did you say Mr city manager I'm sorry I just want to thank Anthony for bringing this up yes thank you welcome not a not a whole lot of damage that I saw but certainly for those suffer damage yeah and I do remember doing it was Matthew or something but um one of them okay great so six months from today this is would be effective starting you can go to the second page Mia um effective date the transolution shall become effective immediately at the bottom there mhm um Mia if you can scroll to the bottom immediately upon adoption by the city council what resolution is this what's the number 20247 I make a motion that we pass resolution 20 2417 I'll second the motion okay got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum got a second by council member Jackson just I'm sorry this just hit me is this public hearing yes you need to take public input catch because it's a fee change right well actually it's a addon agenda item on the fly so you you have to take public input so do we have consensus to add the agenda item on I think did anyone oppose that consensus I didn't hear it late coming item I apologize for that that's okay I think that we have consensus there it's a public hearing item what if anyone will open it up to the public seeing none we'll go ahead and close the public hearing item which is to uh temporarily wave building permit fees this resolution will be a matter of public record people will be able to access it and then exemption will be communicated up front I guess through our building department the opportunity um with that we'll I I think I close public comment already I forgot bring it back here to the council if there's we got a motion in a second on the floor any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis thank you Council yes thank you the resolution 20247 passes 40 thank you both and all who were a part of that um okay so we knocked out 12 we did the add-on item um we are at 10:22 p.m. I would like to did not try and and and move forward with with number 11 as numbered 11 and and 13 unless uh City staff in insist on any type of update for number 13 if it can wait I would prefer that we wait um postpone to the next regular meeting to the next meeting yes I I can just say that I did have a chance to to meet and um we will will we will take it up in November if that's and mayor if if I can um suggest um Banna and I spoke at length about your submitted item which is about I know we're not going to talk about it tonight sorry about that that's okay um actually Brian would like to meet with you and and discuss those more in depth to understand what we can easily do right now what's going to take a little more work or what's probably not like very easy to do at all uh and then how we how quickly we can get to those things that might help inform item 11 for next month that's great and I think it was just throwing kind of a bunch of things out and see if there's any and that's the next best step so I look forward to having that talk and maybe we can even Whittle it down to things that are attainable smart goals whatever uh and and do that thank you and thank you for spending time today on that um great which brings us to excuse me reports right am I missing anything I think that okay looking for the consensus to post postpone items as numbered on the agenda 11 and 13 anyone oppose council member Willis since I can't see are you okay with that postponing thank you city clerk that good got it thank you um reports uh I I'd like to thank everyone and and the hurricane efforts super stressful always stressful anytime you're going to lose power and boy did we lose power I think it was 5,800 maybe 6,000 uh close to uh in Cape Canaveral and I hope we have an opportunity to come together um some improvements Lessons Learned looks like this hurricane that's out in the uh Atlantic looks like it might be fingers crossed I think going up and out or away um could be wrong they hurricanes they change uh but either way um 30 more days I guess hurricane season and the the the challenge that I I want to just communicate during our reports for me was that there's two properties there's really three but just the two that breaks my heart is the mobile home Community uh Port Canaveral trailer uh Park titled um really at the northern jurisdiction line of our city um oh his just old older property everwine property and um those folks lost power like many of us and didn't come back on um but what elevated it for for me as it was coming in I think City staff and all who who were a part was they were in standing water and this water wasn't drain and the reason they lost power was that because a transformer in the tree in their oak tree was blown over from from an FPL pole and this FPL pole is on Port Canaveral property that runs all along the north uh right there where the the walking trail is across the street from trans Montaine and so you got Port canaver Properties fpl's pole the eement coming over from Port jurisdiction into Cape Canaveral jurisdiction over a residential very vulnerable extremely vulnerable uh property from the large Oaks uh the condition of the structures in that mobile home Community um the lack of drainage or improved surface for that water to go um and the other property uh was Canaveral Mobile Estates and um the public comments today about the properties to the North and the South I think is something that that we should seriously look into uh this gentleman ran a pump for 32 or 18 hours and then ran a second pump uh for uh another 18 or 12 hours it was total 32 hours which half of it he had two 160 uh per gallon or gallons per hour pumps going and the the big thing for me was that this person was pumping water that I think think far exceeded what what he was responsible for and so the property to the north um is a vacant lot um there is serious concerns about uh managing that property um and and the canal to the so that's to the north uh the canal which I think we as a city have the most control over um I think is in needs serious Improvement and the funding for that um if if that's not budgeted for this year I would like to take strides and have that conversation with the council because what was difficult for for me and where I hope we are in the future is to say hey our Canal's clear our Canal is managed we've done this and this gentleman jetted the line spent 1,500 $100 or something which was a recommendation from the city that did not lower the water because it was that level I've got videos and photographs um these homes underwater all the way through their backyards uh and it just stayed there um and and then the the property to the the South uh as well seems to be sitting much higher and draining and so what is the improve he had the least amount of improvements as the property manager for 50s something residents who live at Canaveral but I felt that we had an opportunity on that ditch because as we go down that ditch Anchorage um and then you get all the way North past the ditch um yeah Oak Lane um I'm sorry uh up to the Canaveral trailer park um there's no there's no plan or anything there and so I felt that those th this Transformer was in a tree just resting right over a mobile home aluminum with wires hanging it was brought to the attention and it's still there today and to me that is unacceptable that is a and they're in standing water and there's kids out there playing because their uh air conditioning was off and today they were getting eaten alive I went to the property mosquitoes are now everywhere so it's a real safety concern we went under an emergency uh ordinance which I think one of the things is hey what Authority and power does this allow us to have and uh those folks are frustrated talking to our city manager um and and I can't provide the solutions I sent 18 emails over 3 days on these two properties and I don't get to talk with everyone but I didn't get the responsiveness that I that I as an individual as mayor felt that it deserved and it wasn't until Monday yesterday in the late afternoon until our city staff went to the port canavero property and I've sent photos and issues and the last email I sent was what's the update on this pole that's leaning in their yard the story is FPL came back out quickly after we went over there it was addressed but I'm I got word that there was issues after digging in deeper did you hear about the issues with the issues okay that that Transformer caught on fire above their property Cape canaval fire department showed up put the fire out and I found out through the residence and so when I Ted that over to to you Todd I'm genuinely asking myself was the photo of the transformer into the oak trees resting over with standing water in a property that we know is in foul condition that was reported on Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday is when we showed up and they sat in water with no power kids 90-year-old uh veterans and they're they feel like this is status quo they're not important and I'm going this is these are our residents on the Northern doorstep in the porch P holds and we've got every Agency on an email and I went there every single day just to talk to those people and to say we're working on it and I didn't have do I need to be more clear about the state of the emergency I thought the pictur spoke for themselves we were very clear reporting those emergencies as well and FPL was aware of all of those issues as they were happening as soon as they were reported and lots of emails with staff among staff to address this inspect that take a look at this respond there was as you said many many many emails this weekend not just from you from me and other staff members as well um you know unfortunately we don't know how to solve an FPL issue other than to report it to fpl and tell them here's a concern we talked to Michelle mural this weekend about those concerns as well trying to elevate it as much as possible I know you had tireless efforts for that and me too and the contact went from me went from you and from staff members reported by residents we can only make FPL work so fast well I hope that we can I mean that was a serious life safety issue and to me I was at home going do I need to call Michelle as the government liaz on and for me that's you know I don't feel that I you got the messages need to but it did FPL not think that that was serious and I mean for me it wasn't just FPL we as a city could come in and help with the water and they needed pumps and every pump's going to the West Coast all the parts are going there and so it was really important that I all I could do was ask questions and they went out and they were not try they uh the gentleman at the canaval park went and got the last two pumps in Bard County at a Home Depot those folks there their landlord it's a Code Enforcement issue once again that we had knowledge that that property is not code compliant there's no drainage we went to that site according to bsna and we up over grown grass and things and I remember that our code enforcement stated I think it was Mr Palmer told miss schaer that when we look at the code we look at everything and so when we went to that site how did we only walk away with grass and those residents sit the overgrown grass sit there and all they really have is the city because their landlord in care of uh the gentleman who who manages it doesn't seem to be very responsive and I think it's because um there's multiple code violations from my an experienced eye and an example of preventative those people are In Harm's Way they're In Harm's Way as we speak with everything that I said and then the trans Montaine has a Florida department environmental uh non-compliance issue right across the street on October 5th it was issued where they're they have uh equipment and stuff and drainage issues and these folks are downhill from trans Montaine and all that's flowing in under that heavy heavy rain and the second thing is our that goes back to our ditch while that may not help whatever Powers we can this is a this is above Filmore in my opinion this is above everything and it and it if we can support you with resources I think it's hours not days for me those people are suffering offering and we as a city can help one of the things that we we struggled with was the the pump issue does the city have a pump that we can help out um and of course the first answer is well we just we typically don't do that we don't provide City resources to private properties for that um and then the correspondence that I had and given June I also shared with you is if they have exhausted all of their opportunities or remedies to to locally Source a pump that could be a reason for an emergency to bring our pump out there and help them now we still didn't have a balloon to plug the 15-in drainage pipe and because the river was as high as the property it's still pumping it and coming back in anyway so we didn't have the resources to do that but I think it's a good discussion for us to have in this types of emergency if if the resources are not available to private properties to say pump down a property there are just no pumps to be had can we then go ahead and say yeah well that in that case that's when we can deploy a city pump to go to something we have a trailer pump I know June's not here I forget what size it is um but even then we didn't have the ability to block off that drain blocked it off with the tart else but I don't think you went to the site I don't think you've seen it either either one of I have you have I well that makes me happy and I I did not I think we spoke today did you go after we spoke today no I went before okay uh did you go to the the port can I went yesterday trailer park with June in the afternoon no I drove there by myself and you saw that I saw and did you see the pole in the tree Transformer in the tree site she said she didn't see the Transformer and 6 water it's caught on fire there's a rope holding up an electrical cord when I was there FPL was already on site they had a truck on site with a boom lift they were there at that time yeah they they're aware of the issue I do you need me to I will send an email to them every hour unless I'm violating or we are violating our franchise agreement of any sort but that cannot I showed that I printed that picture and showed it to the CEO of Florida Power and Light at The Bard Emergency Center and he said wow and they got the power they got the trees cleared around it and to me I we have no control over FPL but it seemed like if I didn't ping and I still haven't got an answer I that's what I'm I I I emailed that many times and got no resolution and my last questions weren't answered and the fact that our fire department went out why didn't you know about that why didn't Michelle or you or whoever June know that power was restored I was the one that felt like do you got power yet do you got power yet and is that my job or should do we as a city can we during these times and this is recovery I mean this is the aftermath um I tried to and we all had different experiences throughout the city uh those two are were in bad shape and I do not feel like the city was there for them at all and we really could have been we were in a really good position to be there and that ditch is on us that thing is full and it is not draining and you can close it all you want but when you're pumping water he had to overwork and so unless staff disagrees a recommendation to the council to clear that ditch certainly if we I would say immediately if we thought a storm was coming or as much as we can and I know you talk about the pump but also if you need a motion or if you believe it's I hope to not have to do a motion but to take immediate action on uh the North and South properties of of both of those properties um they are surrounded by by drainage issues I I think um and especially the port I'm happy to get get involved and see if they can help a sad it's a sad circumstance and it's and it's really embarrassing for for us as Council when we can't I'll call the mayor and you know June's email said the city manager or the council can release the pump and I didn't think I needed to call a meeting with the city council so that that I I'm I'm trying to say as clear as I can and those people um are our people that feel forgotten and I think well we can really my last communication my last communication with you on the pump was this weekend has do we have any information that they've exhausted their remedies that's that's information I thought would be helpful for making that decision I didn't hear a response on that sir I respond I emailed you right back are the remedies and I said he's the first recommendation was to Jet the line he spent $1,600 didn't do anything City recommending it second recommendation was to get a pump he did that for 17 hours but it was it seems like it was an under under sized pump got a 400 gallon per minute pump and we're going to put it back on them under a time of extreme stress yeah why wouldn't we add our pump to their pumps and move that water out of there we would just need to make sure that we can justify it by they've exhausted their remedies to sufficiently pump this is that your personal criteria or is that I think June explained you know customarily the way it's she hasn't used the pump on private unless it came from a council voter you and you're saying you a city manager want to know that they've exhausted remedies or is that some sort of policy no that's that's me wanting to be prudent with city city resources I don't want to just give it away easily for anybody who wants it you got to explain your reason for this that you can't get the pump you need that's what I needed to hear you can't get the pump you need I never heard that that really make a difference since it's our Canal that's overflowing it was the private property that was flooding it's our Canal flooding the private property is what I understood part I think I'm not the engineer that Canal can yeah but I mean we're we're not going to pump down the canal well no I I get that but if our if we have a river that that crests and goes over onto someone's property no you can't pump down the canal but now you've got a flooded property that is a result of the river crusing our our Canal crested and went over onto their property so if it's getting to a point where they're needing assistance I mean do we not do that I mean really I don't know I'm asking liter legitimately yeah now it's the lack of Code Enforcement around them I will go to the property I know you are still um been here a couple I think how long have you been you're new into this the city code and the the management of the canal would put us in a much better position before we say have you exhausted all resources they're going to look at us and say clean your canal and that could help enforce the code that's dumping water on us and no one's communicated to them they didn't know that you were at this site I didn't know but they wanted to be heard and saying and I I did did my best but I was clear with them I I can't make a decision and I and I was clear with June on this point if they cannot get the pump let's put ours out there and I been nice to know up front on Thursday when they went underwater that didn't happen until yesterday morning you okay my two sents I understand that I think under these circumstances um would have been best to Quick Check and say if you can't get a pump we're going to be out there tomorrow doing it and the what's the worst thing that that happens to us is and we've got help somebody out for some time and cost or rent the um we've got a postmortem meeting coming up with our Emergency Operations team about what we got right what we got wrong during this last episode this is going to be one of the things we're going to discuss and I'd like to end up with a policy that will recommend on the pump usage specifically to council and how we address this yeah I just think um in those that's the whole point of the state of emergency is just look those people and look at their circumstance and we know pumps are gone I was shocked he even got it but he had to drive to Palm Bay to go get it and drive back and he rented two pumps only so he could have an extra hose he was using tape and he did a great job from what I could see never done that and uh I didn't know that they needed to exhaust no one reached out to them and told them that they need to ex my correspondence was only with you at this point in the weekend it had only been with you maybe a but it it grows back that water went inside their homes and a half inch baseboards it was a quarter inch now that's the only ones where it went in the home the other ones just flooded the property and it's standing today if you got a pump down there it would only pump as fast as the ditch would reced but I think he he even pushed a little bit but he pumped for 32 hours those two pumps it should have taken him a day or two City pump could pumps but yeah he he closed it off and then he started pumping every day he took photo and I went the Culvert it was over the you couldn't even see then it went an inch below and when it went an inch below the next day he started and we were lucky with no rain and then it went down a little bit more and it literally went with the canal now there was no case that I could see that the clog was the reason that he had for um I don't think those pumps were under size I don't think he he covered the drain effectively um wouldn't move and that's where the property to the right and left is coming on and there's uh clean outs and sewage issues observation is they just raised Port Canaveral the sewers now they're getting covered up again that water's going over it's a real Hazard back there that Canal is where I feel responsible I at least want to say the canal can take it Lagoon so full the Canal's full I get that but that Canal is a mess and it's worse after the hurricane I'm happy to hear the lessons learned and the things that can prove I would love to uh have an opportunity to go through all this with you post storm and um fpnl uh whatever is I mean that's a the port that's on the port's property that have felt some liability that our pole is falling down on a literally on top of a house that just caught on fire and the gentlemen who were there who came and and basically secured it it's still in the the tree said FPL needs to get here now we've already reported it to them and he said from the they're from Ohio he said it's state law they have 48 hours to get there so my question is is are we leveraging everything in our law and in our franchise agreement responsible to do that she is our person who's supposed to help us with those things at the government level but we have Sue too now here's the kicker that uh and I found this out that was reported to fpnl and the city it's just another case and the code around them they said has been reported so I just feel like we know about this that storm's coming and yes we were lucky but I don't want to be lucky for those reasons uh I want to be ready and uh yeah it's people are upset uh and I and I when you're sweating mosquitoes all day and you don't have power for two days and you're the last ones and this thing is they got to go to sleep with a thing that just caught on fire and they say oh it's fine they're and fpl's nowhere to be seen and what did I do I would then then send it to you and go Todd do we have an update you send it to June June any update that's all that was the end I never heard anything else and it's and then I go back like three times and I'm going am I failing to communicate the urgency no it's it was all passed along thank you and mayor may say something in regards to that report um that Symposium that I went through goes through a lot of uh disaster recovery and situations like this and our LMS plan is great but it's tied more into the county than us having our own formalized plan for our local city so truly I've been trying to to get to where we can go over the information that I was given it would take a workshop because it's not going to be a small amount of information but we may have gaps and I think that this storm has shown us that we've got gaps locally in our Disaster Recovery our disaster planning and Recovery although staff did a great job preparing before the storm got here but there are things that we've got to take a look at to get firmed up um for example and you just said it you know if we're in the middle of a of storm and we have to have a council meeting to get something approved to get it done that has to be in place and we really don't have that capability in place in the middle of a storm if we have outages and that kind of thing we found out that the staff has radios but none of us have radios and y'all can't do anything without us if you needed us to take a vote on something so there are multiple things that we might be able to fill in gaps um in in the process and learn from our m not mistakes but learn from our circumstances so that we can be more responsive um and help with Public Safety help with life uh threatening issues and that type of thing and I'm still I still would love to go over it nobody is we've been so busy with budget and all of those things nobody has had the availability we really hadn't up till now and it's a shame because we're going on the back side of things trying to look at how we can make things better but I think that that is an addition we need to do as well I've talked to city manager about that and I'm happy to hear there's a postmortem going on but really we need to look at what does it say we're supposed to do and make sure we're covered on a local level here our LMS with um the county is great it's what we need if we had to pull in other um cities or whatever to help us we've got all that in place but we got to clean up this local part of it in my opinion and make sure we don't have any gaps thank you and I'll be contacting FPL again tonight and tomorrow morning and I just aside from that getting an estimate and the time uh to do just basic clearing of the canal um a project that's way but I think that's something that that the property to the North and the South properties that's it thank you all we we all care about these items mayor I assure you I I I know and we're all pulled in a lot of different directions that was one where I just couldn't it it's hard to explain in pictures and that's why I sent them um so thank you thank you for all that was done thank you for all your hard work out there in the community yes the and the city's um updates were excellent on the best storm updates I've seen just from from the on the social media um out of all the storms done great in previous years but it was really good this year so thank you um anything else with that on a happier note yes um the VFW and the American Legion is sponsoring the first ever Veterans Day Parade on November 9th and they have invited the city council to be in the parade if you would like to be just contact UM the VFW and let us know um if you want to be in it if you have a car or whatever but they are inviting um all the officer I mean the officials from the city November 9th November 9th at 1111 and it starts here at the city hall and ends up here there's going to be um a band and hamburgers and hot dogs and some kid games for the kids our first time so you I will do my best to be there that's exciting city manager any reports anything I know we're over a coffee with city manager this Friday at 10: yeah and Trunk or Treat too I think that same day City attorney thank you thank you all council member Willis still with us thank you any uh comments or reports understand thank you I'm the one that's already at home I'm happy about that well have a good night thank you again I'm glad we were able to make that work with that we can go ahead and adjourn the meeting okay