Good evening Everyone Today is Wednesday march 27th 2024 It is six o'clock PM We are at the city of Cape Canaveral City Council and planning and zoning Board Joint Educational Workshop meeting here at 100 Polk Avenue in Cape Canaveral Florida Call this meeting to order N Chairman Russell would you please lead us in the pledge To the of the United states of America And just about it for which it stands one nation under God with liberty and justice for all City clerk Would you please call the roll Council member Davis here Council member Jackson here Mayor Burton Kum here Mayor Morrison here Council member Willis here now to the planning and zoning board board member Denny Here Board member gentle court Yeah Board member Miller Vice chairperson Price President Chairperson Russell Here Board member sharp here Board member Stroud here Thank you and thank you all for being here fellow counsel and planning and zoning board and directors Uh today is uh item for discussion Uh we'll get into that in a minute We are live streaming So at this point we're gonna do public participation if anyone would like to speak Uh please come forward um and or anyone listening online Please raise your hand and you'll be recognized I do not have any cards I do not see any hands raised with that we'll go ahead and close public participation And We are the item for discussion which is green stormwater infrastructure and low impact development codes and program incentives presented by the East Coast Excuse Me East Central Florida Regional Planning Council Let See very on Zack has taken the stand For your sir Thanks mayor Good evening everybody This is this is a pretty cool unique event Imagine if our council was this large you'd be a Super Council Um yeah So tonight We're here to talk about greens storm water infrastructure and low impact development practices terms You probably heard a lot in the last few years is the city looks to expand its capabilities of reducing flooding and increasing biodiversity and helping things like the Indian Lagoon the rich um challenges of pollution Um I'm just gonna take you on a brief history of the project that we're gonna be talking about tonight and then I'll hand it off to our grant partners What we're doing tonight is an important deliverable uh for the National Science Foundation funded Grant project that we're currently doing at F Memorial Park which is the construction of a rain garden that will help take water off the Taylor Avenue and treat it with these uh fated and for friendly plants upwards of 1000 of them Um So in 2022 the city and stepson University received a $50,000 grant from the National Science Foundation for stage one mining gram basically to look at opportunities to engage the community and see where we could improve ourselves in things like greens storm water infrastructure and a lot of impact development to mitigate flooding in the city and increase Uh or or I should say reduce our environmental impacts So through the course of this stage one planning grant We hosted three community workshops at various city facilities and got a lot of resident feedback about what we should do where we should do it Uh And I think we got to a really cool conclusion which ended up becoming uh the rain garden project that you see before you on some of the banners uh around the room Um This went on to inform the uh application of a stage two grant with National Science Foundation in 2023 that was worth upwards of $1 million The City was successful at obtaining this Grant Um I'll Just say that 56 communities across the nation applied and only ultimately 19 were awarded so Stuff Thank you Um So the grant was in fact to build this uh site and to scientifically monitor it uh and see how it does The project is supposed to be transferable and adaptable to not only other areas of the city but other municipalities in Florida and across the country Another deliverable of it was to look at a city's policies related to storm water And How how we wanna do that You know we can only do so much on the infrastructure side so there are other things that has to be done to with policy that can improve our well being across the city to reduce flooding and reduce our environmental impacts Um The construction of the rain garden started in January and we are tracking to have it completed by the summer months for the rainy season This is the largest grant Uh endeavor we've done in terms of the number of project partners that we have I'll just list them off We have uh 15 including the city Uh we have Stetson Universities Institute for water and environmental resilience The National Science Foundation of course Kimberly Horn and Associates the Marine Resources Council the board Zoo the Saint John's River water management District Ferguson Waterworks Riverside Conservancy for to C Grant A UF I the central Florida Regional Planning Council the Indian River Lagoon National Estuary program Uh and really university And Uh my university the Florida Institute of Technology So with that I will hand it over to Brenda Brenda used to work for the city of Cape Canaveral I'm Sure You all recognize her She was our old uh senior partner She now works for the Central Florida Regional Planning Council helping us do a lot of policy work and also helping us get a lot more grants So thank you Brenda Good evening everyone So is that Hi So Zach said My name is Brenda Defoe Super Nat I Am the director of planning for the Central Florida Regional Planning Council formally Um the senior planner for the city of Cape Canaveral So I think I recognize most of you in the room Um but that's who I am If You don't know me So I Just Wanna kind of provide some context for you guys in terms of resilience and then lead into the policy discussion which I will be followed by Jerry Murphy But I also want to say that this isn't necessarily something that um Is Uh sponsored by NSF in the sense that we have to have this PO policy discussion but it is within the scope as Zach mentioned of our project That was one thing we recognized that while we can do this really cool projects that the policy has to follow So that's what we're here to to discuss Tonight Um Zach mentioned a lot of our project partners so I'm gonna skip over that but generally speaking um I wanna get into the timeline As we said and one of the big things that kind of kicked us off was the vulnerability assessment That was one of the projects Started here with and what it did was it led to a lot of these other projects that you see here today Um and so I wanted to kind of focus on some of the vulnerabilities at first and then we'll get into like I said the policy discussion So one thing we know is that the city is covered by a lot of impervious surface The City was uh built during the space race So a lot of the building practices a lot of the site development are from pastimes they don't necessarily take into account future conditions And So when we think about that with extreme weather some of the conditions we're facing um when I was here I know we had several rain events These were just you know run of the mill summer storm events that kind of over overwhelm the storm water system Those are the things that are probably gonna become more frequent In addition to the storms and the just the extremes and being able to predict those are gonna be less and less frequent is is what we're seeing from a lot of our data and so with all of that in mind I just want to kind of set the context Like I said So when we look at sea level rise and high tide days um our expectation for right now is that I It might be hard to see on some of the maps but um we're trending somewhere between five and 6 Ft Of sea ice by 2100 and for Barrier Island communities That's very important Um you're surrounded on water essentially on all sides and this is not unique to just city of Cape Canaveral But as I said to a lot of the barrier island in Brevard Volusia along the state coastline So the expectation based on our projections is that we might see upwards depending on where you are Um maybe To 19 days of of sea level rise meaning that water is coming up onto land With that some of the depths that we might see are between uh I would say half a foot to 2 FT depending on where you are again One of the interesting things about this city is that uh because of some of the hydrology Um some of the expectations again I think people expect that Maybe We'll see some rise or some impacts from the Atlantic Ocean side but what our information is telling us is that it's really gonna come from the L the lagoon side And So when we talk about sea level rise mixed with storm surge Um our current day scenario is not great Uh this is not intended to be um you know uh scary if you will but I want it again to set expectations So in a cat warm storm surge that is the red area This is what our projections say for today Um So That was that was 2022 Or Now if you will um so when we look to the future It gets a little bit Worse if you will um so again when we're looking at our high tide days and again I'm using the intermediate high I I will note that the reason that I'm showing this projection specifically is that the state itself passed a number of measures recently through resilient Florida grant legislation that said that coastal communities and inland communities had to look at certain factors when considering infrastructure and this is statewide and there's money attached to that and you guys actually are Recipients of one of those so we did I mentioned the previous vulnerability assessment The City of Cape Canaveral will be getting an updated one with these new criteria and some of the criteria are some of the maps I'm showing you here Um but you will get a more formal document and more formal process as we go through that process and so for 2070 which is kind of what we're using as our kind of threshold tipping point if you will um this is some of the expectations we're seeing in our projections I'll also note that the the um The gauge the tide gauge that we're using is actually just north of us Trident Pier in Port Canaveral and this is a no gauge and there are several all across the United states So Um these the GS have been in in effect for decades in many cases and they have a lot of historical data that come with them And so that's how we're able to kind of project these scenarios out And so these are some of the um the high tech depths Associated with 2070 And then this is sea level rise and storm surge for 2070 And So When we talk about some of the infrastructure um issues that you guys might see Infrastructure alone is not gonna fix this Um it really does have to come down to a collective policy discussion We're not necessarily here to talk about any specific site or any upcoming um Project if you will but we do want you guys to kind of have the context and then some of the consideration for moving forward so that you do make informed decisions with these future conditions in mind And So when we think about again this is just another representation But a cross section of sea level rise in high tide conditions And then when we think about sea level rise in storm surge conditions And Of course we do Tie this back to a really cool Veterans Memorial Park project again Very Cool initiative This will help with some of the quality and quantity issues Um but this alone is not gonna solve the problem so part of the discussion we'll have tonight is what are some of the development practices you guys might look to in the future that might help alleviate some of these issues Um so I would just leave it there and turn it over to Jerry and I'm gonna switch very quickly To his presentation Uh oh I'm sorry Here we are Good evening City commissioners and the planning board I'll call you the LP A because that's your official title Under the state But um I recognise that you have a different distinction here For the record I'm Jerry Murphy with the University of Florida And I'm gonna try and uh provide you with some overview How we got here today I Guess I'm supposed to speak really closely to this How We got here today and uh where things are going in other parts of the state and some things that you might consider in terms of looking forward Ahem So To make good land development human occupancy redevelopment policy decision It's good to put our historical approach into the same perspective in in the later half of the 20th century Marjory Stoneman Douglas whose name may be more recently associated with school shootings Published her epic socio environmental book the Everglades River grass And It starts with this epic statement There are no other Everglades in the world They are they have always been one of the unique regions of the earth Remote never wholly known And nothing like them exists And then from the late sixties Until this decade Floridians rejected the previous definitions that our state was a commodity of no intrinsic value Instead they recognize for as a unique treasure Which Each generation has an obligation to protect for themselves in the future The environmental movement which fundamentally changed Floridians perception of themselves and the places where they live was based on sound science supporting wise policy And symbolizing This was a series of environmental and land management studies And these were started out in 1971 Following Those terrific fires in the uh in the Everglades Where we got wise to the fact that we weren't always going to be full of water and if we continue to drain our water there would be times when the Everglades would dry up and would catch on fire Uh that was pretty stunning And So a series of events in the 20th century early 20th century Um Sorry late 20th century uh led to these political actions and resulting in legislation much of which is still uh codified in Florida statutes And These efforts continue to evolve into the eighties Culminating with the 1985 Growth Management Act And that resulted in among other things the establishment of the State Land planning Agency Which Depending on how long you've lived in Florida has been the Department of Community affairs and then the department of The Department of economic opportunity and then most recently for commerce And so The spaghetti strands don't really do justice to the actual impact of the systems that befell the state in these two years 2004 and 2005 I particularly am familiar with Charlie I was a community development director at Fort Myers Beach where it didn't quite make a direct hit but it was very close We had 3 Ft Of sand on our main Barrier Island Road to ST Boulevard A manatee and we were very fortunate that we had a heavy equipment operator who lived on the island and had brought his equipment onto the island for safe storage during the hurricane And he was able to go to our roads cleared but Charlie came across the state and gave you guys some weather too so no one is immune Ahem The bar graph though I think helps document the hundreds of millions of dollars of economic impact witnessed by that same tropical storm season And again This is almost 20 years ago We've had worse things happen since So Coming out of the 21st century and we get the hurricane Impacts and then the reaction to that legislation generally takes a couple of years to react to things that happen and generally is reactive as opposed to proactive So We had the post after Development planning initiative and that started out and was going to be a mandatory requirement at the time but the 2011 Community planning Act came along and basically uh some folks would say Bob Graham for one that it gutted Florida planning Rule regulations Um but some of us saw silver lining to it because it really relaxed a lot of the one size fits all uh state mandated things and provided some opportunity for local governments to be a little more vision based A little less than to look into what they wanted the the future to look like Then came the peril flood legislation that followed from federal legislation called Biggert Waters It was gonna basically increase flood insurance about tenfold when people realize that the reaction politically was very huge and that was eventually rolled back somewhat um but locally in the state of Florida where we have the parallel Flood act which required local governments to go into their comprehensive plans and make certain provisions addressing sea level rise Which until that time was not en for a statutes and Wasn't even allowed by many state offices to be discussed Um and then presently as Brenda mentioned From 2021 Until Now The legislation keeps evolving the resilient Florida grant program Which has brought in some requirements For Vulnerability assessment and the components of those are a critical assets inventory You have to identify what Um infrastructure assets cultural assets There's a broad range Are important to the community and also the regional value And after you've done that Then you look at the sea level rise components other storm effects Climate change weather events and do an exposure and sensitivity analysis to show you basically the graphics that Brenda was showing where your vulnerabilities are gonna be in the future Then there's community outreach which you've engaged in Reports maps and tables that you've seen And finally you have to have parallel float compliance if you haven't already had it in your community is in compliance with payroll flood So following your um Brenda's review Um the program for research efficient communities That's Who I work for at the University of Florida um is working to develop new land development projects And we promote And and if we can successfully implement those efforts With private developers and that's what we've been doing in central Florida Uh we think that it's very possible that we can translate those successful efforts into local government community policy and proactive regulations So I wanna go back now We talked about policy a little bit of the states involved in policy and now I want to mention um about actual conventional development practices And Florida has been developing rapidly since 1947 Uh as our state's population has grown steadily despite economic fits and starts there's a cycle about a seven year cycle that we seem to go through Um that repeats itself and we're just shocked every time it does Um but since the mid 20th century and Florida has led the nation in new home construction And we've covered Development policies So now let's look at some practice So conventionally once the develop ment project is approved The physical construction process follows the same primary pattern regardless of how unique a conceptual design or plan might be Land is cleared except for the wetlands And It's reshaped to create high ground with drains to wet or dry detention or tention areas And roads and infrastructure constructed to service furnished lots And drainage infrastructure connects the high to the low areas Then with the horizontal infrastructure in place Groups of lots are sold to home builders who build an additional who bring in additional fill to ensure that the lots are above Lake base flood elevation and or drain to the roads And as the homes are finished in ground irrigation and turf Landscaping are installed to be very quickly to make these homes presentable for sale to the market perceptions of Florida living So Here's a contemporaneous example from East Central Third Regional Planning Council Uh on completion this Dell Web community is proposed to have 1350 homes They'll be conventionally landscaped and these homes have conventional Saint Augustine turf landscapes and are built on five or more feet of fill above the surrounding natural area with storm water basins or lakes Excavated in the middle of the homes And Here's an example from a pattern book and pattern books can go a long way into considerable detail and can include exact landscaping specifications So These are basically the developers provision to the builders and then the builders will incorporate this along with the developers and the homeowners Association documents for perpetual maintenance But there are other ways to do it and we're exploring that more and more particularly as water And To get water becomes a bigger issue Um and the limitations on the availability of portable water have led to the formation of a sustainable landscape Design group To make specific recommendations for a development called Sun breach And We'll look at uh Particular aspect of Sun Bridge which is gonna be a huge development I think there's a 30 year horizon We'll look at Westland Park which is one of the first parts that are being developed The idea of low impact design and management principles that the group adopted That was guided from The proposed landscapes for the model homes at Weston Park And So here's the example of what we've been working with Um by June they had developed plant lists and basic design principles and those were integrated into the sun Sun bridge community landscaping standards This would be similar to your land development code Um comprehensive Plan and Land development code Code of ordinances And in Western Parks 10 Mile homes We have moved away from turf dominated landscapes to drought tolerant shrubs trees and alternative ground covers And We also encourage the use of compost as a soil amendment To improve soil water holding capacity And in the areas between the curb and the sidewalk The Toho Water district partnered with PR C and the developer to swap out the Saint Augustine and try Sunshine mimosa perennial peanut and other low impact Ground covers are everybody familiar with perennial peanut Have you seen that So That's a ground cover looks like grass from the distance but has little yellow flowers that pop up all over it Um so that's a very self sustainable because it's a peanut It's a Um Maybe AC creates its own nitrogen doesn't require inputs grows pretty well and it doesn't grow fast so it doesn't need to be mowed as often Um and the perennial peanut which you can see on the bottom right is doing particularly well in this landscape And Finally We use Citizen Science collected data to directly calculate irrigation water use over 100 and 30 Day period from the first reading in July through the most recent in November of last year And the rolling averages for the Cherry Lake managed landscapes These are the low impact landscapes Is 15.5 inches per year Compared to 67.7 inches per year for the two projects that were started in the Sun Bridge prior to getting involved with the University of Florida and with Cherry Lake So minimizing landscape impacts Um in the Florida Biosolids management is another major developing problem Um as AG land shrink the opportunity to disperse biosolids without exceeding damaging concentrations of phosphorus is disappearing And to the degree that compost can bind up nitrogen and potassium and phosphorus in slow release forms and can widen the area of distribution and offset the use of mineralized fertilizer It could be a big part of solving this problem And earlier today I was in my mama at the University of Florida's Gulf Coast Research and Education Center for the first um Annual compost consortium And so the use of biosolids and the conversion of that to something that isn't chemical fertilizer and it doesn't go into a landfill Uh is becoming an increasingly important opportunity for the state Currently much of the landscaping that's being done here starts out in nurseries and those nurseries are importing peat From Canada to make their potting mix So There's a lot of work being done trying to utilize compost instead of bringing all that peat from Our neighbors to the north So that very exciting uh kick off today Uh much more exciting than my trip across I four to get here tonight Mm And so we think it starts with rehabilitating the soil and we are told that good compost can reinvigorate soil biology and increase water holding capacity and facilitate Kon exchange all of which increases the likelihood of successfully establishing a sustainable landscape without resorting to high impact practices And As I stated before I think if we can successfully implement these efforts with private developers whose history is not replete with concerns for minimizing environmental degradation We can translate these successful efforts into local government community policy And regulations And we wanted to start a very high level Um I'm gonna quit there and leave it open for questions From the boards and then from the audience and I just wanted to add um a couple more things Like I said We I know we went through this kind of quickly but again it was to set the context of you know uh where the city is currently some of the past practices and with some of these extreme weather events climate change coming Where Does the city think it wants to go in the future Um as I said the city has been very proactive in doing a lot of these public projects but it can't alone happen on the public side The private side does need to follow and in the way we That is through policy so I just wanted you guys to keep that in mind Um And as Jerry mentioned he's exploring through his program and we are as a a council What are those new practices looking like and how do we connect again You know the land use to the um the water issue both from a quality and quantity standpoint because you've got the banana River Lagoon um to your west and then you've got the ocean to your East So again It's It's It's the balance Um that we're trying to strike as we move The future And what does that look like You And Thank you as well for presenting a council board Anyone have any questions With Council member Willis to see you Um Primarily for the city of Cape Canaveral It's going to be questions of redevelopment Versus Virgin land development So How How can we incorporate a lot of these things in a redevelopment state Well I I would suggest that you look at what's being done on Greenfield development We call it And that can be utilized on a lot by lot basis As requirements for redevelopment You may consider Elevating structures and not letting allowing enclosure below so that water can flow through Phil is probably the worst thing you can do on a barrier island that's looking at a potential of 5 to 6 Ft Of sea level rise because it just takes the impacts of the lot and spreads them to other lots It doesn't always go to the road And when it does go the road Sometimes it backs up So I I strongly think that you should discourage Phil or prohibit it And That's certainly something that you can do within the national flood insurance program and it's defensible Um Then of course Commercial development You have to look at trying to reduce impervious surface The more impervious service you have There was a great Diagram of how you have plenty Um you know that needs to be something to consider reducing as you move forward You can do that by reducing parking requirements If that's feasible using uh you know code Adjacent parking You know where you've got a business that's open from 9 to 5 Next to a restaurant Yeah it's probably a pretty good opportunity for some symbiosis and then looking at pervious pavement Pavements that allow the water to percolate through And I think that also you want to encourage particularly in commercial development Um similar projects to what you've done yourself And So You've got a great demonstration project But There's gonna be uh interpretation kiosk and so forth and make that an educational opportunity And get the kids involved You know Bring the K through 12 folks in the university And allow the young folks who say what are you doing to our planet You know to get involved and and promote for that Um you know those are some of the things that you can do And I think the biggest thing you have to look at is continuing education of your community letting them understand what's coming down in the future How We may or may not be here but we will be leaving behind people and property that will be here and and we need to address that if it's going to maintain and any value going forward You Mortem any questions at this time The Question Um We are our city is 98% built out And There's several hotels that are being built as we speak Um My question is as policy makers where do we start Where Do We Start with you know how What's our first step to make Them use Pa Uh Per um building materials Um It seems like we have to do it quickly because we're running out of space and we need to Um educate the you know Residents and everything But what would be the first step to get this going Um In your opinion I think it starts with making sure that your comprehensive plan has the goals objectives and particularly policies that support this type of effort and you got the legal foundation to go forward with regulations I think if you look at redevelopment as the threshold That's a new request You know that's a new permit And if you have new criteria that address changing circumstances like the future of sea level rise and extreme weather that we're looking at You know then it's looking a T How do we make The new development more amenable to keeping everybody from fewer impacts And and I Don't think that there's any problem in doing that but you need to make sure that there's good consensus around it so that you know two years from now a big developer doesn't come in with You know whatever guns they can bring to bear and say This is terrible and you end up repealing it Um some of the extreme things that you might consider and I don't encourage you to do this But you know factually they are ability You can have moratorium on permits While you consider what you're going to do going forward And that sort of slows the process down Those are not popular They're about as popular as um eminent domain But There are tools in your tool basket and you have to look to see you know what What are The pressures Do You have a lot of pressures of commercial development or redevelopment that's coming in in your 90% built out community Um that is abiding by old rules that just don't work anymore So at the time is you know N Um it's not going to be here right away but it is going to come 2040 is probably going to be your first threshold And The other thing is you know take advantage The Silver lining behind every disaster It just shows you what the future is going to be like permanently when the water rises When you get in data from a hurricane tropical storm Whatever Nor'easter You know that's what things are gonna look like in the future all the time Well How do we plan for that You know and one of the biggest things is by elevating new construction should definitely be elevated The National Flood Insurance program allows commercial development Dry flood proofing That's not always a great idea Because again The water is not able to pass through And you're you're a pass through situation that goes across Sometimes It goes this way You're a passive situation so if they allow that water to pass through it's not being diverted to other places It's not eroding like it does when it gets channelized by two buildings that are solid to each other So that elevation thing I think is extremely important and then allowing the water to percolate having places where there are not per Impervious surfaces but that the water can be held like the project that you're doing at the Veterans Park I could add to that too Later this year you're going to see comprehensive plan updates that we've been working on for quite a while so that we can meet the state mandated peril of flood act That requires us to start doing some of this stuff within the comprehensive plan I guess actually First The planning zoning warm See it But within that there will be new tools that we will Implement with your guidance that will allow us to hopefully develop in a more sustainable manner that prevents flooding and puts a little bit more Uh the responsibility on developers Um And One of those is for example starting something called an adaptation Action area or AAA That's what the state calls it We Wanna start calling it the enhanced resilience area This would be a specific area of the city that has been identified to be exceptionally vulnerable to storm surge Um And it would be an area that would require developers to be more conscientious of how they build Um so that we don't uh impact the lives of people around them and can improve the city's own infrastructure at the same time so that is something you will be seeing later this year that we're excited to bring to you Yes Thank you On Some member Davis Yes Developing the hub You know we're looking to do That be possible So Yes Structurally speaking Uh that is something we would look at for sure adding incorporating uh storm water chambers underneath the ground as well as probably some permeable surfaces Um but we need to understand how much that can carry um and see about replicating that and others are areas of the city I would always encourage for any project if it's possible engineering wise and fiscally responsible that we try and find more storage capacity to take uh capacity off of the Existing storm water system as basically the name of the game is finding more buckets Put the water in And instead of just putting it directly into the lagoon Which can Cumulatively you have to imagine I don't even know how many stormwater outfalls up and down the length of the lagoon across all of our county you know after Hurricane Ian the water rose tremendously and stayed in elevated for a while so we could put it back in storage sites on the ground to give it a chance to put back into the soil directly That could give us a chance to alleviate some of the pressures on the system Council member Jackson All This will be a fun question You know how I am Um OK There was a famous case of elevating a lot That resulted in a very negative impact and that is surf side In The final verdict for the surf side collapse the developer across the street had built an elevated lot lot That caused runoff up under the surf side and this the verdict literally said That's when The serve side became unstable So as we look at this and with you guys being so heavily involved in this how do we work around or do you know anyone looking into Um these things when we're looking at elevating lots and making sure that our permitting is correct so that we're not causing damage to any existing structures that are older out there So I I don't know if I'm gonna comment specifically on surf side but I think The general um consensus though that that that that was a totality of circumstances situation I would say I don't know if I would say it was due to one thing but I think the thesis of Uh what came out of that is that some of the conventional development practices um are not considering some of these future conditions And so that's kind of what we're here to talk about today And so I think to answer the question When You Think about the future I don't know if I can or anyone can guarantee that something like that or there's not gonna be impacts But as you develop site by site you have to kind of look at the totality of your situation and figure out how best to move forward in in in light of All these kind of different conditions if you will Now Are there any of you all that are scientists looking at that though because literally that was in the verdict So Is that the the lot was overbuilt and it was elevated So as we look at those things for a city we have a lot of older infrastructure We want to be sure that what we're doing is putting in sound policy In my opinion um so that we're doing the right thing for the environment because we have lost ski Island out there You know I used to go out there when I was boating and it's underwater as well as a picnic table so absolutely We need to look at what we need to do Um but having safe building Code is going to make a huge difference because our structures we have a lot of older structures right and a lot of that is regulated through the state through the Florida building code So but that is where things like the adaptation Action area Uh parallel flood considerations come in because in the re in the resilient Florida statute some of these things got um rolled into that to to that new law But it essentially says that yes you guys should be considering building techniques that are um More stringent or exceed some of the what we know is typical for Florida and that not only helps with insurance but it helps with flooding and it helps with kind of private property protection Loss of life those kinds of things but the intent is Already there It's just Um Getting people to see that there is a different way and and in a way to do that is in the policy And as Jerry mentioned you've done a lot of demonstration projects but we need to translate that from you know city properties onto uh the the private side right I was just curious if there were any kind of studies for Um any type of sewage or storm runoff when these lots are elevated because I would think getting the water away In a You know an organised manner versus letting run off a car would be a huge Thing with that So if there's a specific study I can name but I know that through permitting process where through the city or through the water management district There's a lot of um organizations that kind of help Buildings get built Um and they all have regulatory authority or not to do certain things So I think collectively People are considering these things but specific to that side I can't really say what exactly happened OK thank you Thank you Chairman Russell any questions just going down the line at this time please The floor is yours sir Thank you Uh Mr Murphy made a couple of points Uh in his talk that uh resonated with me So One of the points was to escape flooding Elevate Well If We elevate lots by fill that prohibits percolation It's working against itself How do we elevate without filling the The base floor of the structure comes up off the ground So we do that with pile driving and country concrete piles on the type of structure You know if you're dealing with a single family residence although they seem to get bigger Um you're not looking at such a dramatic and Injection into the ground as you would with a commercial structure and depending on its location to the water That are doing that right now Doing doing what uh installing piles elevating buildings So yeah That's one of the um in New Myrna Beach for example which is in Volusia County in our region There are a lot of homes that are being elevated right now Um and that's one approach that they're taking But then coincidentally one of the benefits of doing that is that it provides an opportunity to store storm water on a site versus the traditional practice like we talked about where you just try to move it off the land quickly and so again I think of future conditions That's not that status quo is not gonna be enough to manage storm water both from a quality and quantity perspective All throughout the city We have uh Put in regulations that say you have to uh retain a certain amount of the first waterfall and I forgot the number of inches that is And So you are drive around town and on lots and lots and lots of properties You See all these swales Swimming pools They got the whole water So We've been working hard at that holding the water on the property Or at least the first X number of inches of rainfall So We've done that and we're still doing it Uh the other thing we've looked at is uh pervious Surfaces Uh F pervious services or more expensive But Do We Look at making that regulation anytime you pour concrete you gotta be pervious I mean Help me with that Well You You could go so far as to say any time or everything but I think you look at percentages as as a better way to do it Certain um AD requirements and things like that you know aren't necessarily amenable to these services or to pay blocks and grass but a lot of it can be History shows that you've used a lot of concrete and a lot of asphalt Doesn't drink well well to a hole somewhere It goes down into the water and the water table goes up and And It has no opportunity to percolate the vast surface area So Definitely impervious services are important reduced courteous services and particularly in two ways for the existing context since you're mostly built out You can require it with redevelopment Um there may be need uncertain lots for waivers because they're just so small and grandfathered in You know that has to be addressed Probably administratively But You look at a basic regulation that applies Across the municipality And then the other thing is for existing properties that aren't redevelopment mode incentives Do things whether they be financial or assistance from community groups from the local government Uh just ways to get people to come in and revise you'll see a program on I think PBS called Flip My floor yard and that's the program that IP S has demonstrated for taking an existing landscape and trying to make it a little more Florida friendly and that includes addressing storm water Are there any success stories around the state where uh there's been a requirement to No longer use impervious pavement or concrete You know the words of coastal communities on the West and the East Coast Um we can provide you with some examples I don't have a list of the top of my head But There's also communities that don't allow fill Particularly in the coastal zone You know you're you're a coastal flood plan The Entire be island is a coastal flood plain That means it's gonna flood from time to time Um particularly after a storm event and particularly a major one So Eliminating Phil helps a lot in terms of the impacts on the neighbors and on the broader community if it's not going on your land it's running off to somebody else's land or to the public facilities Therefore you fool what to raise your your base for Raise your floor You've got to put piles under it because you can't feel uh or at least feel as fights against that So You gotta put in piles The idea is to put in so that the water And flow through when it does flood I Don't see that happening with uh Private residences do you do you is it that there are requirements I very highly communities I'm familiar with some on the West coast were Phils were here OK They're built out So when a property comes in And there are properties that are either in grade and they wanna feel to base foot elevation which can be as much 5 6 ft The water runs off to the road but it also runs off to the neighbors in the NF and you know in common law That's a nuisance or negligence or trespass claim Against that property owner Under the National flood insurance program which you participate in the minimum National Fund Insurance program requirements Don't address that at all they are fulfilled You don't have to do that though You can have higher standards and then having higher standards there's a program called no adverse impacts And They're basically says whatever you do in developing your land you can't have any adverse impacts particularly from flood water on the neighboring properties or on the public in general And by utilizing those types of development regulations You are eligible for higher community rating service Valuations which provide a discount depending on the number that you get from your store of 5% for national flood insurance Which is only going Up So Here we sit We'd like to be higher We wish to be higher flood water or uh Storm surge comes in We can't fight against it It's coming will come on its own So The only protection you have against that is have your house sitting above it That's the best protection That's the best protection could be to elevate my house on Phil and and you know the rest of you all But Everybody else gets it Do your own own policies Perspective You know you're looking Is sitting boards at the larger community perspective and you have the power and the opportunity to regulate against that type of effect Uh Here's a tip for everybody in the room I read an insurance policy at flood insurance policy You're uh your insuring yourself against flood The policy reads you Not gonna be covered Or flood unless the property adjacent to you flood So There's one adjacent adjacent property has to flood so just something to know Go read and go read your policy There was a little hidden things in there like that We We all have to be aware of what's in the policy And then we have to be aware of How to raise the property and how to put water into the soil But to percolate It's only gonna percolate so much and it goes into the lagoon and out in the ocean Ah The Magic solution is to raise everything I'd I'd like to Lamar and the rest of the folks here this evening I This is a perfect example If you want to drive out there this evening on your way home or tomorrow go to 243 Coral On Har Harbor houses That some of you live there and some of you see it And you have you've heard about this from some of the neighbors This is a new new project going in a new single family home Having to meet the latest Uh flood requirements So if you drive by there you'll see that the finished floor elevation on this home is let's just say a foot above the surrounding properties And it's got a lot of the neighbors very concerned rightfully so As you drive by you'll see And So This is what we're talking about this evening here Is there other ways to address this Um what are those other ways We keep beating around it and dancing around it Give us some solutions We're going to be doing in the next few months is we're gonna be providing the council and the PNZ board Specific policies in our comprehensive plan in our land development regulations so I don't have them here in front of me to see but you'll be seeing them very shortly Fair enough OK And I think OK of this meeting is tonight is to get you all thinking about these ideas and then get your direction because whatever staff and consultants propose doesn't go anywhere until it's adopted Vice chair price Oh please go ahead Zack Do you need point Person Management I I I'm not a fan of it because it's you know the way Historically Florida cities have developed The road is part of the initial drainage system And Then you get into pipes Hopefully that are above water Um and so elevating roads causes a reverse effect And we've seen that in Miami I was down there for an A P a thing I think a couple of years ago and they said they had it fixed but they fix is pumps and pumps require energy And if the energy You know I mean it's not I would call it a sustainable solution What I'm Seeing being effective is let the roads flood they'll go away Um as the roads get closer and closer to the surface waters At some point there has to be a plan to abandon the public interest in those roads let the private sector support maintaining their private access Public interest is just money Right going down the drain You know it's worse than a boat which is a hole in the water into which you throw money You know it's just a loss so you have to plan for vacation of the public interest where the roads are most vulnerable and you're vulnerability assessments are showing that And Then I think you have to look at elevating structures not the ground beneath them Utilize the ground beneath them for cisterns If you've got the capacity or at least for percolated drainage Parking storage access to stuff that the national flood insurance program allows Discourage or prohibit Enclosure Uh they have breakaway walls and they have flood vents and those things work sometimes but in major storms like Ian they tend to fail And so the idea is to let the water flow through And Then what I think more of the progressive communities that I've worked with on the East Coast and on the West coast are doing is requiring additional free board above the states Now 1 Ft of free board in the building code As much as 4 FT of free board I've seen uh in coastal areas and and non coastal areas actually and and that's I think looking forward Um But The the idea of Phil and Barry rylands You know that That's like sea wall in your way away from seawalls You can't feel yourself away from Disaster Flooding impacts Or Vice chair price Well you know what a great presentation Thank you so much um a lot to think about a lot to uh Absorb here If You Excuse the pun um looking forward to working on this and I really don't have any questions tonight Just a lot to think about Thank you Board member Denny I think it is a great presentation and I think it is something we need to address right away I live across the street from the one that has been risen and the neighbors next door They already see drainage going into their their place So We have old buildings You know 19 sixties fifties that A Lot of people now are coming in and tearing them down and we do want everybody to be safe But If There's incentives or ideas for Run off that when they do do that you need to have so much uh drainage and so forth going forward so I'm I'm Glad We're addressing it and Looking forward to working it all out Thank you for your presentations The typical situation in Platted lands Are very small lots And So It's almost impossible if you're going to fill to hold all of your water And I think the The component that you talk about this first several inches of water have to be held I don't know that that applies to individual lot residential areas It's usually larger commercial projects that have to do that So you need to be looking a T What What can residents do And I think IN a redevelopment scenario and you're gonna see redevelopment There's 1000 people a day moving into Florida They're going to go somewhere Some of them are come to Beard County and some of them are gonna look on the barrier island Um you know Make them do the right thing as the town redevelops and do the right thing yourself what you're doing I mean you're doing excellent demonstration The idea of doing this for all of your public projects Very good ideas But There's only so much you can do on public property There's only so much public property that you have The idea has to be I think moving forward to start looking at what The private sector can do in a redevelopment component and maybe with incentives to existing properties to move forward and and start I mean once people start seeing it and they see the effects of it and you know the The presidential streets Don't flood as often now that you've got the park absorbing some of the water you know those things I think are are demonstrable And again I can't emphasize how much you need to involve younger people in it Because They had big influence on their parents Do You have any examples of incentives that other communities are using to for the Private sector to my pocket but we can bring some of those forward as we move through the process Great Thanks Um I will add that two things so Also when we think about redevelopment again where Because of a lot of the um Climactic changes We're experiencing Florida We're also moving toward more of adaptation development if you will so again as you you move forward Think about it In terms of that It's not simply just redevelopment for the sake of redevelopment but it's adapting to future conditions Um all of which we can't predict but at the very least as you guys sit here today you can start um implementing some of those policies in like Zach said Some of that stuff will be coming Um the second part of that is That the Regional Planning Council and actually uh UF We did do an L ID project Low impact development Um Greens Storm water project with Luia County and we do have some uh resource materials that we could provide Um I can send this to that But That also has some um examples and some incentives though I think one of the things we found is that incentives don't necessarily work and it works best when it is required in a comp plan or a land development code We have a few incentives We've already started to roll out very small scale projects I don't think You know a few people doing them will make that much of a difference but I think over the long term it could and I think it is definitely enough to do uh to inspire others So The City has three programs that we call our adopt Insert word Adopt the mangrove adopt a tree adopt a rainbow all of which those pamphlets are right on that table if anybody wants to look residents could take advantage of these programs We will give them a free 55 gallon rain barrel Um we have a program that will give coordinate trees upon request to properties that meet certain requirements and we have a mangrove program that we can give to lagoon front property owners to deal with erosion control and improve local water quality So we do have some of those um We got into this situation with kind of like death by 1000 Cups death by 1000 Properties We can get our way out by uh 1000 Bandaids um or permanent fixes as I like to say Uh so if anybody wants to look into those we have that and we also have a low impact Development guide also on the table for residents that they can get some inspiration for projects that they can do on their own properties at this time Thank you Board member Gentle Corp Yes I I really don't have Other than to thank you This is a great presentation Um you're enthusiasm is wonderful too Um I I can't think of anything to add to it I'm looking forward to seeing what we get Thank you Board member Strout Uh September The 13th 2008 Hurricane Ike raked across the Baldur peninsula This is on the Texas coast If You've not seen the images of that peninsula after that category two storm raked across that area It's shocking to see what was leveled It literally decimated all of those communities There were a few structures that remain standing Guess what there were built up on stilts that were above the storm surge and the storm surge was not able to knock those structures down Uh as a city we're gonna have to address our building code height for residential areas so that we can allow people to either rebuild or to build uh at a higher elevation so that they can put these uh stilt type systems and some water can go underneath them We can also solve another problem by doing so by creating a pervious surface underneath those structures as we elevate those but I think one of the first things we can address as a city is to look at raising Our Building Heights and our residential areas Thank you OK and come OK making sure Board member Sharp Good information here tonight Um Looking for specific to our community Uh it's been mentioned before We're pretty much built out And What we have left are larger pieces of property that are are uh Just land right now or some big pieces that are primed for redevelopment When you look at Just those pieces of property that's really kind of where we have the larger chance to make a an impact and do our new approach to Handling these situations Um when it comes to commercial development like that No one the mindset of developers being greedy Uh cheap Of people And some instances They're gonna be coming in here We're gonna be doing a lot of mixed use on these larger pieces of property The things that developers would be looking at or incentives Uh and the cost of doing these new approaches to storm water management In dealing with this commercial Approach What sort of information do you guys have um that would be best practices Uh to deal with uh enticement of developers for these properties that we have I know there's uh It It gets pretty expensive doing uh a large commercial property on stilts handling water underneath Um there's baffle systems waffle Um Sort of foundations where you actually can have water retention within these baffle systems that will release Water at a certain period of time You guys have the information for that because that's really what we're gonna be dealing with There's great programs on the residential side that we're doing and stuff but The big impacts Or what we're gonna be doing with our mixed use big pieces of property How do we deal with that So I Guess I will add a perspective Um I There's a part of me that believes insurance Will regulate that if you will um that's something we are We're constantly hearing Um is that the insurance market in this state Because of the increase of hazards Um the storms the kind of flooding that we're having is I think Proving to be Or designing or developing in a way that's more adaptive is proving to be more cost effective than paying the insurance Um so I guess that's one way you could address if I don't I am not necessarily the mind that you need to provide incentives to developers But There are mechanisms like we said through your complaint your LD CS and your your AAA or adaptation action errors where you can require things that are more stringent that go above the minimum that we're used to Um so I'll I guess I'll just leave it there and I'll say Has Anything else to add but Those are some things I would So I'm I'm not a big proponent of incentives because those are options and they're generally ignored You have to have requirements if you wanna get something done and I think that it's important for the community to come together See what we want to be as we grow out as we redevelop because you're gonna redevelop You know you're built out but that doesn't mean building is gonna stop Um and as for commercial properties or mixed use properties These are major developments and their bottom line driven But You know I think Once You decide what you want as a community Then the message to the development community is Built to our standards or you don't get our market And I Think You have a very robust market Um you know how many less than a million dollar homes are in the city Probably not too many And if they are they're older and they're probably prime to redevelopment And It'll come so I think incentives are great for existing properties who don't have to do anything They're in code or they're non conforming grandfathered in so incentives to them OK That's That's something that might entice me to be a better citizen But for new development and redevelopment I think the only way you're going to get in a short time And that might be a 20 year horizon The kind of development that you're looking for is to require it Yeah I'm not a big proponent of incentives either but uh I just know that they're gonna be looking for something To be able to come in here and and Help out our city Let's say that your commercial market Pardon me They're gonna be looking for your commercial market Exactly and it's then that commercial market is not there or they can't justify the cost of doing business They won't come and the bigger better Commercial entities It's a cost of doing business and they recognize it They'll they'll parlay If they can If There's an opportunity And Increasingly That's not a good idea because of the coons decision United States Supreme Court decision in Coons where the parley turned out to be against the South ST Johns River Water Management district and they ended up Having to pay and and so stick with your regulations if there's a plan development type of situation where you can have certain give and take that's great But again What do you wanna do about the water How Are we gonna develop with all this water that we're getting and we're going to get and it's not gonna go away OK so so to that side a developer comes in here They know that they're gonna have to Um spend more money To build the project out the right way What Do you have as far as information Of ways that has been done in coastal communities that work so we can implement those sort of regulations On to the developers We We will try and organize a Collection of best management practices We do have the G SI L ID Guide with the Regional Planning Council developed with Alicia County and we can share that with you and we're constantly I Know Council is constantly looking to get more information about where things are working and it's just it's evolving Drastically right now Um I Think Board County and the municipalities on the Barrier island are on the leading edge of doing the right thing Um which is great It's fantastic Um but there's not An example Out there there's concepts and ideas and you have to say OK These concepts are worth trying out and and we'll work and you just have to look at you know what the impacts are and what it's going to entail going forward but the price of land in Florida is not going down the development potential in Florida is not going down People are moving to the barrier islands I don't know why But They're beautiful you know and and There's a temporal attitude toward that I'll I'll go out on a limb and this is me just speaking for my observations There seems to be this dramatic tension between coastal communities and the Legislature over short term rentals As The impacts from storms become increasingly more frequent and harder to deal with commercial properties make more sense than residential properties because they evacuate days beforehand You know these are renters They're getting the heck out Residents are more inclined to tie me to the bridge you know and and it's just not I think Ian shows us that that's not a real good thing As I mentioned earlier I was a community development director for Fort Myers Beach for Charlotte It was a dramatic impact Nothing compared to Ian And if you haven't seen footage of the water coming in And going up over the roofs of houses and then receding to leave very little but a bunch of titbits I I encourage you to view that and I will share that with Brenda because it's just a dramatic illustration of what can happen to a barrier island with a major storm Thank you Thank you and if we need a circle back through for any other questions Uh we certainly can I'll Just give General Uh feedback I liked a lot of the things I heard today although across the board sounds like if you came to see Are we interested in seeing proposed policies I think the answer is yes Um and the the will I think is here to to try and to test I like you know priority The areas of the city where maybe they're more vulnerable for a storm surge breach in our little city and identifying those um things but the The the the on the developer side Um in the way that we approach new development moving forward I've lived here my whole life I've traveled to help in the Panhandle and Michael and all the way down lived through all those hurricanes as uh Titusville and Cape Canaveral and it is today I'm so sensitive to just uh you know these heavy rains that we've lived through over the past few and where we see those puddles that are small small Roles on hurricanes are big puddles and we're the heavy areas are I think this council's had uh Been knee deep no pun intended Vice chair Price in uh the the the water aspect of our city and the policy and uh on the south side of the city and so as we fix that I'm really interested in um underground uh excavation or storage under our public streets Um that to me the opposite of you know building up in watery tracks but Can can we collect in in in those public places Uh does that work Um and on the incentive side you know they're doing the math and so regulation is good until I think it becomes cost prohibitive I agree that the barrier island Cape Canaveral from a residential and certainly commercial perspective is a highly we're gonna be We're different than uh other communities in Florida largely due to the port and a lot of the economic Development with the aquarium coming trying to create that extra day Folks are coming in a day early to actually enjoy Brevard County And The impacts we've seen on our roads Um I think if we were to test some things instead of even citywide sometimes can be overwhelming and and find those targeted areas I think we can move those through quicker And and and work together with P and Z to consider the the policies and the proposals And I Think If I'm understanding Uh we we might be the first movers on some of these We may not have a you know a barrier island and coastal community that's implemented a policy before to to rely on um and I I Don't think we've been afraid to be first movers and to try things So Um thank you for your your presentation and Time we put into this water is such a big part of of The conversations we have out here It's involved in everything and I think um as much On on the with the progra MMEs that Zach shared that we are doing uh community awareness people folks knowing that they can get a free rain barrel Um And then you know While that might be a little bit I Think We get 52 million gallons of rain a year on average Uh And And so you and I have had talks about measuring you know the impact of a small house or a roof and and how much you can catch or do in small Uh ra rain gardens in their front yards to catch um those and if there is an incentive uh that that could work to me the way I look at it Is today Our storm water system you know on this properties that you talk that build up and that do not drain well and and and dump water in excess of what they should that puts a heavy strain on our on our stormwater system and we spend a lot of money on our storm Water uh 8 $9 million and and and state revolving fund loans I think we've been through over the past decade at least um And So one by one The idea is that there is sort of a an a measurable gallons Tied to Uh an economic incentive somewhere on the water bill Are there any communities where it's appropriate that have done you know and I I don't know the administration of a program like this but we OK you've installed a ram barrel Um you've you have the capability to reduce your storm water by X amount of gallons a year Therefore you know even if it was annual Out of our um CR a budget which which blight flooded streets or blight to me So the CRE moneys might be a good fit But in those grants those matching funds if someone can you know use their space because the city got on board with uh Funding a part of the underground storage because we viewed that as sort of an asset that's gonna put less water back into to our dreams Um If It's $10,000 that maybe a Horner homeowner uh residential developer wouldn't Want to expand Is there a matching grant where the city says you put five You know we take five and then the city funds underground storage on that property Um those are some older ideas I don't know if they have any merit But Those are some of more Those a RE I think this is the type of discussion we were hoping to have We're we're writing these ideas down This is good Thank you Um Mayors And If You remember when we When I was here We did an exercise uh with the regional Planning Council where we kind of had to prioritize budgeting and infrastructure Um so I guess I would just say Keep that in mind as you think about these types of underground structures there's no uh silver bullet or magic pill If You will that's gonna solve the problem But The The idea though is that you can't necessarily rely on one system and the cost of those systems as again Um these storms be become more extreme Sometimes Those are cost prohibitive And so it's sometimes the best course of action is to deal with the structure and not the system because the storm water system no matter what if it's overwhelmed it's overwhelmed And so that's what we're trying to also balance like the extreme of The storms are gonna see and then protecting certain properties Um so I would just keep that in mind because quite frankly and this is discussions I'm having all across the state There's never gonna be enough money to fund all of these infrastructure projects because we just keep having back to back Storm events or back to back things we've never seen so there's a lot of money both from the state and federal level but it's also very competitive and you mentioned you know you guys are doing the revolving loan Um other people do that as well So I guess I would just say Keep that in mind as you consider But I again I think I would stress that policy Not necessarily infrastructure is um one of the approaches that you guys need to think about as you move forward cause it infrastructure is not gonna solve all your problems Thank you Well We've got her impervious I mean PNZ tackled this We went through round and round with the uh you know reducing the parking standards Green parking initiatives Um And Yes Thank you Uh That's all I had at this time I was just gonna say to to start to close Um is uh I I just to kind of give an example of the this type of foresight working out for us Your foresight as a as a counselor and as a board was the grant that we got for the uh center Street pump station from resilient Florida We had to submit models similar to what you saw in the presentation tonight that we're done with uh you know For Spice staff and other planning partners and uh information from our title gauges and our weather stations went into that submission to basically prove the need and it worked And All that foresight and a lot of doing it came from you guys So when we get ahead of this stuff now It puts us in a position to take advantage of stuff when it comes down the line perhaps quicker than other people can So Keep these ideas flowing no pun intended and uh and let's keep the conversation going We look forward to bringing back the comprehensive plan updates to you I think I'm thinking I'm standing here now and thinking about it I think it'd be prudent when we do that To bring it back with examples from perhaps other municipalities If we can find them in other communities Perhaps we won't Perhaps We will be the first but I'm sure some others have done something by now especially coastal ones So We'll do that to make it kind of easier to see how we can acclimatize that to here So Thank you for your time We super appreciate it and we look forward to moving forward I did see Are there any follow up questions Thank you Zach Jerry Brendan the whole team for presenting council member Willis I've got I've got one if Indulge me Um as we've seen from the your uh slide the impervious Surfaces in Cape Canaveral can do you have examples of other communities when permitting is Done for resurfacing the parking lot Because We have a lot of condominiums Apartments a lot of pavement where that permitting requires some adaptation Where you And resurface your parking lot but it requires you to put a certain amount of impervious of pervious surface in there like a A Um a strip is ripped out of the middle of the parking lot I have started to see that Uh they're usually defined as a broader like low impact development based code that has certain requirements for properties to start doing things Besides what you're talking about But There are communities I think we can pull from that have that I don't have an example right off the bat Well actually I Do I know the city of Titusville passed a Low Impact Development ordinance which we can kind of look to just as a local example I don't know how specific it is to permeable pavement but I think a lot of the cities have started to do it um or at Look into it so we could certainly try and find some of those exa Mples Do You guys have any Ye Yes So We're in the preliminary phases of kind of developing like what you're talking about Um we basically we would use some type of engineering calculation to trip a series of um requirements based on how much someone wants to build on a specific site that could include a permeable um Uh percentage To help with the with flooding Well um Primarily focusing on existing But that would count for redevelopment too So If someone say wants to redo a driveway or a hotel wants to come in and do something they would have to meet certain requirements based on the new code Um That is something that I know Uh actually Lexi Miller's spearheading that so Dave you wanna speak more about it Or Did I get everything Getting your steps I promise Yeah I mean we're we're gonna be presenting this to the board and to the council and in the in the board and the council can get as aggressive as you want to on this These are all going to be policy Questions and decisions that you make and And It can range anywhere from a simple redevelopment project to uh to a new construction So Um and and we've actually We've looked at actually maybe adding in some incentives too Um to to help homeowners Um Um meet some of these standards so there I think the message I want to get is out is anything is on the table and everything's on the table now is our opportunity to take a look at this and to and to be as creative as we want um recognizing too that we don't want to get crazy with this stuff and we've got you know we've got homeowners Um and we don't want to discourage and shut down redevelopment of the city I mean that's certain we don't wanna go that far Um Um but it's a uh it's a great opportunity I'm So So Appreciative of this this discussion this evening Any other questions from The board OK city attorney Any comments or city manager Any comments Pretty The street Say I'm Glad I asked I I do have one more Uh shout out Um if anybody would like at 8 A.m. this Saturday we will be planting the last 140 plants in the rain garden If you'd like to come and plant some plants if we can do 17,000 seats in three hours I think we'll be done in about five minutes So um Can get him while you while they're still fresh Uh but we will be uh finishing that up That will be the last of the plants As I said before there are almost uh 1000 that went into this project so Uh that will be very fun And Uh we'll have a little booth out there with some partners Uh UFF will also be in attendance with some uh ordinated plant seeds that people can have Which is nice Um so come on and join us and then we'll go up in the Cape Center after Thank you any other final comments from you see not looking for a motion to adjourn like a motion to adjourn All right reading adjourned Very good Well The thing I learned about all this