##VIDEO ID:93CZm8rsEFc## okay today is September the 18th at 6 o'clock and we're here for the City of Cape Canaveral Planning and Zoning Board uh uh meeting UHD like to call the meeting to order uh ban can you call roll please okay we have uh board member Denny here board member gentle board member Miller here and vice chair price here chairperson Russell yeah he's absent today and board members stoud here we have a quum at four of seven members with one vacancy well good good evening everybody my name is John Price um Lamar Russell the chairman is out tonight so I'll be filling in for him U first thing I'd like to mention is that if there's anybody that would like to speak tonight we encourage that there's a little form for you to fill out just giv your name your address that kind of thing and a little bit about what you want to talk about um if it's uh concerning any of the agenda items tonight we'll call you to speak when we're talking about that agenda item okay uh let's continue on no old business how about new business approval of the minutes of the meeting for June 26 2024 has everybody had a chance to look over the minutes any corrections or changes as they're written then we're looking for a motion for approval I'd like to make a motion to approve those minutes Steve stoud Denny will second the motion all in favor I I I opposed all righty that was easy so let's move on to the second agenda item which is consideration of recommendation of approval for uh cape view Coastal parcel number 24 24 3723 cg11 primary plat to city council and site plan to the city manager's uh design design uh Kyle do you want to take the lead on that sure um first I just want to introduce you guys I know you've all spoken um Brianna so is our new community and economic development director um she this is her first planning and zoning board meeting and as I think you're all aware this is my last planning and zoning board meeting so wasn't aware while ago yeah um Renee could not be here tonight she's she's not feeling well so um she'll be back next time so um yeah we can we can get started Brianna can you go to the next slide is just the agenda all right so good evening board members uh tonight's agenda we're looking at the preliminary plat and site plan uh simultaneously for the cape view Coastal property at the southeast corner of Rosland and Adams can you do next slide please so this partial has a zoning of R2 uh medium residential it also has a future land use of R2 um the site is. 28 Acres uh previously there was a non-conforming Structure with 10 units on the site if you guys remember that um this project proposes four units which is within the permitted density of the 15 units per acre um so a decrease in density from 10 units to four the site is currently vacant and the surrounding area is a mix of single family two family and multif family residential that's typical of the presidential streets all right so sorry for the block of text on a slide but um these are the criteria that city code lays out for approval um that the board should consider for approval of a preliminary plat rather um this is kind of a a shortened version um but I'll just kind of kind of briefly go through uh these and what city staff had to say about them um so the project creates Lots in developments and conformance with city code uh City staff has all reviewed this it meets the zoning classification U meets all applicable laws for preliminary plat um the project is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan yes it's R2 future land use that one's pretty simple project provides proper Ingress and egress this is a corner lot um the access is on Rosland Avenue and it it does have proper access um compatible and in harmony with the surrounding neighborhood um I spoke about this briefly but uh 28 Acres a density of of a little under four or I'm sorry a little over four is permitted and four is being proposed so um there's a some town houses right across the street uh to the North and then a few more just down the street so it's very typical development for that area um a lot of developments that we've had in recent years have been these sort of these town homes that are starting to look really nice so um it fits fits in with the area we will not be creating burdensome congestion on the streets and highways um Rosland will not dip under its acceptable level of service um it won't be generating too much traffic in comparison to the previous 10 units and application promotes the orderly layout and use of land um again a decrease in density replacing 10 units with four should not be crowding and it's you know well laid out it was looked at by the community appearance board um back in I believe September of last year so they have um given given their stamp of approval and the application does not pose any significant harm to the adequate and economical provision of water sewer and other public services uh this was reviewed by the public work staff and uh water and wastewater infrastructure exist uh to the north and on every side so it's it's got Utility Services um and then I do have the plat I believe in here if you guys wanted to take a closer look at anything um and I don't know if there's a way as far as discussing this and then the site plan discussing this first so just to clarify it's two applications that was required for this request that are being heard and considered concurrently and so we can provide one staff report that talks about that project as a whole and you can make one motion approving both or whatever it might be um it's just two separate sets of findings required for approval yes thank you um at this point before I go into the site plan do you guys have any questions comments on the preliminary plat board member Steve question no questions at this time Dr Miller I'm good for now uh I do have one question and I don't even know if it's relevant but uh you know vacation rentals has always has become a real big issue around here is there any consideration given uh at this point for vacation rentals and whether or not that's something that we have to be concerned about we didn't really consider that at this point um it's residentially zoned so so it would it would have to abide by the 7-Day minimum um it's not like they can do the rented by the night anything like that um but but no we had hadn't really considered that okay at this point all right what I can add as an update as well is pretty soon we're having a code enforcement officer dedicated to Vacation Rental enforcement okay good thank you I I think no questions all right good deal all right we go to the next slide thank you so this is the second application part of the same item um this is for the the site plan um so I will go through these again these are a little bit different section 110 222 of our code one it's actually 110222 B forgot the B uh these are the requirements for the uh the findings of of approval um so yeah I will go through those now so number one Public Services it's a little repetitive just to warn you guys uh the development was reviewed by the Public Works director who confirmed it will not have an adverse impact on um any public services it was also reviewed by um fire and by uh the PD so they have all given their um approval internal Traffic Safety um again this is fire has reviewed it uh it will have driveways on each site so two garage spaces for each unit two gar two driveway spaces for each unit for a total of 12 parking spaces um just something to note the 10 unit multi family only had 11 spaces so they'll actually be doing a better job there um external Traffic Safety again it's not going to have uh a significant impact it's a decrease in density should theoretically lead to less traffic than before um and rosalin and Adams neither are expected to operate below an acceptable level of service project does not generate any sign odor emissions smoke noise glare yeah so this is a residential project um don't anticipate this generating any odor I would hope or emission smoke noise glare vibration and let's see environmental the project does not generate uh this is in the flood zone X which is pretty typical of um that area of the city there's nothing really so they provided a drainage Port there's nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to environmental impacts well they're not going to build it up higher like we have that issue on Coral Drive are they oh no well they'll have to submit when they do the building permit they'll have to submit all the drainage and and everything like that again but we can keep an eye out good thank you um the project does not significantly impact historic scen Scenic or cultural resources including views um this will be the same height as the as the previous structure um so no additional um blocking of views there the design security and lighting is sufficient for the proposed density and hours of operation um lighting is an aspect that was looked at by the cab we've we've reviewed the lighting um you obviously they're they're close to the beach but there isn't any lighting proposed that will be above and beyond what's what's typical of that sort of development um let's see site design so this is uh setbacks shape buffer so these all meet the R2 zoning classification requirements um 25 from the from the West the front 25 from the northern property line because it's a corner lot um and then 15 in the rear and eight on the side meets meets it all um let's see socioeconomic this will not have a bad impact on Soo the socioeconomic status of the city in fact it's looks better than the the previous structure that was there so I would say it's an improvement um and then this will not have an adverse impact on the city budget local economy employment or property values um again continuation of the development pattern in the area there's a demand for housing in the city so um I think it makes sense where it is and uh this is just the site plan um the packet did include the other elements of the site plan um and I have some some bigger copies here if anybody wants to take a closer look but this is just the site plan um if you have any questions you can take a look Vice chairman I I did have something I stumbled upon when I was reading this earlier sorry that I did not speak up earlier under the uh agreement the coveted rules HOA uh line L states that no unit shall be leased for any period less than 30 days all owners shall be responsible for any violations of this declaration by their tenants so we do have something that they're building into their HOA catch thank you all right is there you guys got anything else Dr Miller anything uh I don't have anything but before we take it yes no I do I think it needs to be discussed um given the situation going on in Filmore um you I think you need to show the board not only the site plan but I think you need to show the drainage plan can can the when the applicant gets an opportunity to comment explain um why there's a drainage swail uh system that surrounding all of the uh units and right up to the back door of the um of the rear of the units further if you look at the drainage plan it looks like there's a sewer line running right through the drainage system I think that needs to be explained as well also the preliminary plat board will be going to the city council for consideration and you know under the plating statute the council and this board gets to review all information um that's relevant to the approval of the plat so you know there's a proposed uh preliminary plat that includes a drainage and combination drainage and utility easement that goes all around the property as you can see in the site plan you can see the Contour not the Contours but the proposed elevations of the drainage swell so um you know I would suspect that there's going to be some questions regarding that so I think we probably need to discuss it tonight and can you pop up the drainage plan please yeah I can I need to I can't read it here it is oh got the glasses but I been see that that's what I was bringing Yep looks better when we zoom in so if there's I'm happy to do that I mean I I believe uh the um engineer is is here tonight um if you'd like to to speak to city attorney's question can you show can U Bri Brianna can you just kind of use the cursor to show the where that sewer proposed sewer line is you can now that's the outfall structure if you look at the uh the look look to the right you can see the 6 in PVC sewer line in the back of the units see it in the note right there all right now follow that arrow and you can follow the line it goes goes up it goes up and you can see where cuts across the drainage soil talking sew a 6 in PV it's showing as a six 6in PVC sewer line in the rare of the units and then it runs north and then it cuts across the Swale see that was one thing that I noticed um worth discussing because there's literally no there's going to be a you know the sub Line running behind the units and there's and there's just a drainage swell from what I can gather right in the rear of the the townhouse units in the backyard right yeah I I I think that's a good point and the applicant is here to address any should we have the you say the city Engineers here should we have I think not the city engineer the Eng the applicants Engineers here the applicants here yes yes if he's if he's interested in speaking sir can you come up introduce yourself yes uh chairman and board members the O Ro or Associates I'm the engineer for the project and uh uh I guess the the question of being the sewer being in the in the back in the ration P you got to consider the retention Pond is only 18 in deep the S has to be at least 30 in deep to begin with to even exit the the house because of all the connections that you got to have at you know minimum 1/ 18t slope so the uh the toilet takes 12 in before even start and then it slops from there to go so by the time we get to the back the ration one where we are talking about the SW is going to be about three four feet deep and uh so we have to make the existing uh connection so you know if if be becomes as I said you know that the retention one is not really deep that you say it's a big retention one it's uh it's a 2 ft deep it's a 18 in one places and 12 some places and in the bike where crosses uh the retention pond it's uh about 2T deep and at that point the sewer got 4T deep to begin minimum four to five it's 2T deep leaving the house so by the time it makes there at that 1 18 of in per foot if you do the mat you know and there there's a clean out of 4.8 and uh so again I I don't know what else we can do to make the existing sewer to connect to the existing uh and as being town house being PL that uh the sewer has to be outside cannot be run inside the unit so the option is uh you know putting it there or putting in the front how whereever you put it we got to cross the retention point so think you know this I explain what you know the question is and when to get there I have to cross the we T about to get there so which way you want them to get this at the back or in the front so Kyle this drainage plan has to be approved by yes so this this drainage plan as well as a drainage report was reviewed by the city engineer um and then before obviously any building permits or CFOs it has to be looked at um you know in some detail so um that that is an aspect this was obviously just the site plan so it's it's not developed yet but this was looked at thoroughly by our city engineer and this this uh drainage plan the way it stands right now has been looked at and approved by the city engine yes that is correct okay just point of clarification not yet approved but reviewed in conformance um the official approval from engineering comes at the building permit stage okay thank you why does the sewer line have to go through the drainage sell are there any other alter know if I wish the city engineer was here to maybe yeah comment about this but why why why does the sewer line have to go through the drainage foil if there's a future problem after these units are sold and the property owners have issues with the sewer line then they're going to have to disturb and then reconstruct the uh drainage system correct any erosion you guys consider this is a private system no it's well until it gets to the the property line is going to be maintained by the the property owner but as you know in Cape canaro there are flooding concerns right and the city will be granted an an emergency easement in order to ensure that this system continues to function properly and doesn't contribute to flooding in the area so you know my question is in the event there was an issue with this sewer line then it would have to disturb the the drainage system right as proposed so were there any other Alternatives if the time comes that it needs to be worked on yeah is anything disturb you got to put it back you know with anything else wherever you disturb anything you going to put it back you can't just leave it and you know go so yeah it has to be back put back to its permanent condition and that would be true for anywhere you go anywh I yeah I understand that but I'm just asking because I'm sure the questions will be asked if there are any alternatives um rather than putting a SE line going right through the dra proposed drainage system that's all and then you were there any other considerations given for other types of drainage systems like exfiltration over parts of it in order to preserve backyard space for the future owners of these townhouse uh not not really because what happened the city has the ordinance that we have to follow even though the existing that was there there were no retention there were no drainage and that was one of my argument which you know I didn't Prevail is that there was nothing there and we are trying to provide something but they didn't accept your city engineer didn't accept they wanted the food blown you know drainage so you have so much property how much what can I do you know there's some way you can if you want you know it's whatever we put there it's a 200 300% Improvement what you had before and uh because you had nothing and uh and that was my argument but it I it didn't work and uh so to meet all your requirements of 25 years storm yes we have to go through and provide all this uh drainage and which to me it's kind of a over for a small project you know that we are looking at that it was previously developed and it was you know there but that wasn't you know I didn't get the vot the um outfall structure that's being proposed for the drainage system to the um to the West it's connect it looks like according to the drainage plan it's connecting to a um drainage Inlet it's connec structure it's connecting to the existing drainage Inlet and uh you got to keep in mind that your your require the city requirement is that or any other City requirement is that the amount of water that is Shing off before you start development it's got to be controlled you suppos development the amount of water is got to be the same at the predevelopment you had a lot more water going than you would now because they had nothing there now you have the drainage system so the amount of water that actually that the system is going to see is going to be a lot less than what you used to see so but yes we are connecting to the existing carb inlet at the street will there be any improvements done to the street Inlet or is it just a connection we not touching the street to you know the only really the the only place that we going to be touching the Street is connecting the driveway we are not disturbing we're not doing anything to the streets but if anything gets disturb during construction they have to that's one of the not there anything that happened you have to put it back to its condition it should be noted that the sidewalk um on the street was required by the engineer to be yeah there nothing to do with the having anything with the street and we are building that the sidewalk which is not there so that drain is going to go in before the sidewalk I understand that that this is a private you know that this is generally a private um it's a private project and there a generally a private drainage system so under the city code if they're going to be any public improvements related to the construction of this project the city needs uh assurances that those public improvements will be completed before a certificate of completion is granted so are there any the engineer are they other than the sidewalk right are there any other public improvements that are being propos for this project public Improvement uh that are going to be actually there's nothing great as far as we are proposed there water is there the sewer is there drain is there the woods are paved you know yes the sidewalk is the only public improvements that we are provided there's nothing else needed if there was then we would you as part of the the sine we would provide what is needed but what can we do what you have everything uh it's just a question but it is just in your professional opinion because you drew up these plans there are no public improvements that ultimately will be conveyed and maintained by the city other than the sidewalk other than sidewalk there's nothing else you while you're up here you're the engineer of record right correct the engineer of record for the project um do you understand that under the city's platting requirements that you're going to be obligated to file two sets of AD as build drawings and certify that all the improvements that are reflected on the site plan are done in accordance with the site plan that's that's part of the requirements that almost every municipality has today and you're prepar and you're prepared to do that at the end of this project if again the condition would be if my client hires me to do that yes well I'm I'm stating in the record that that's going to be a requirement requirement then yeah so that's going to have to be complied with right then he has no choice you know I cannot provide the service that I'm not asked to provide well the applicant needs to understand that that service is going to need to be provided and an as buil two sets of as builts certifying this engineer of record certifying that all of the improvements that are shown on the approved plans have been built in accordance with the plans again that's that's a requirement almost every was so I'm sure it's going to be okay with this one too but just giving you a heads I'm giving you and the applicant a heads up yeah I I do not have the agreement to do that at this point but that's you can go back and talk to your client after the meeting then so um okay those were the only questions I had for the time being thank you Anthony you're welcome I I did have the I'm sharing a concern also with that Swale and that sewer going through there if there's any future servicing to that Swale uh over next to the street uh they could very well get down into that sanitary line I'm not sure why you would not want to run it on the front of the property where you wouldn't have to go down in the Swale come out through the where the driveways and garages are that's very typical around here and then make your connection on the other side of the uh outfall for this uh storm structure if you're the referring to going around the the the property and making it there if there is enough fall yes but if there's not enough fall I got a I understand oh I understand I'm trying to do is live with what we got there there was enough all that would have be the preferred way to do it and because otherwise we don't want to go for a small project like this with the lift station and you know it's not I get it I get it yeah that's where the old one was connecting MH and we are using the old connection oh you're using the old connection that's that's the reason the sewer is in the middle of the that's the reason why you're cutting across that Swale at that angle because you're trying to hit the old connection so glad to know that uh on the uh storm structure that's existing in the street you're going to they intend to go into the backside of that with the uh with the outfall from the Swale that's that's correct that the inl is existing and you going to cord Z and that's what's specified going to modify the existing those are things be honest with your engineer reviews and you know they're good pretty good at that you know nitpicking and uh we've gone through two three reviews to get where we are and uh especially with the you know which you know as I said you know there wasn't a 10 unit we are replacing the same thing really when you look at we shouldn't really have any drainage because we're not having any adverse effect or impact to any of the system that wasn't there but your code doesn't consider that your code says you're going to provide and so I mean that's a I mean that's that's that's a good point to make I mean it what the property was previously developed right no with no storm water system no storm water system right so I mean at least from from your perspective the applicant perspective the post-development runoff for the new project is going to be less than the pre-development runoff right very true which is just a general that's a general requirement under the city code um but um not into Jack but can you clarify what you meant by by I thought I thought I heard you say existing storm War not sewer line is that why you're going across the drainage sale there's existing yes or are you talking about like there's an an existing connection on the north side of the property what happened with the uh the the building that was there was 34 years old there were no drawings on it and so what we go based on is that the a that the utilities have and utilties has uh a stop at at that location that we are connecting now there might be you know on that side didn't show any other stuff not to say there are more but it doesn't show so we got to take what what we have so it's the stub out that that was that's existing not not you're not not the existing lines or the previously existing or the existing lines is basically it's a a service line that's provided for that property to be used which is on um on the north side of the property the stub out right but not the line the line that's going through the Swale that's shown on the drainage plan does that line exist today or is that being proposed okay that's what I want we are connecting and if it was existing we wouldn't take the existing because why would you want to connect to a 34 year old line like that and uh we are connecting to the right at the the property line at your ordinance requires that you have to provide the clean out and that's where the city maintenance starts and right at the property line where the clean out is and uh so the the rest of them yes you get called you might be you know have EAS and so forth but it's a private system their plumber has to take care of it and uh yeah if they don't they they start complaining the city goes yeah I guess get invol on so did you examine or discuss with the staff whether or not there was a um sewer stub out somewhere else perhaps on rosalin as a as a better alternative so you would not have to go through the drainage swell like the way you you're proposing again if there there is we would glad to connect to it because that's not really anything on the as far as that does not affect the layout does not affect the drainage it's a it's a separate item and uh if there is another slop out there that we can use we'd be glad to not go through the drainage but if we have the choice we have the uh may we can well connect connecting to the existing stub out is is a convenience for the contractor uh to make a new connection it's a new connection that line probably runs down the side of that street you actually shorten your distance on that line if you could go take a straighter Avenue directly towards the street and not use that stub out and there's also an assumption that that stub out is in usable condition that's one of the conditions that was one of the noise we have that if it is not if it's not very it should be very if it's not in the condition they have to do go to you know connect to the uh the main line but we start at at some point and uh so if it's not you know you're not going to use it you can use it it's a there's a there's a note that you know it says if it's not you know if it's you got the first thing they got to do is f verify that it's there first of all it's a good condition and it's usable and if it's not there's a different alternative one of the smarty comments that went back and forth with the city engineer was that and uh so that our point was there's if you go to UTD drawing there is a note regarding that the first thing to do is to verify and all the existing before you go to the next step anthon I didn't mean to interrupt I'm sorry that's fine I me I wish the city engineer was here to maybe elaborate I probably wouldn't be asking you these many this many questions I I appreciate your patience no problem but you I'm not an engine I'm not an engineer but I'm trying to faret out a few things here for the record so um assum assuming I mean you you kept the sewer line in in the rear is there any and I understand gra you're using gravity right to to to to transmit the sewer right to the stub out to best of our knowledge there isn't if there is you know doesn't show on your drawings show all your as was there any is there any like from an engineering perspective assuming that suine stays in the rear to run it along the outer perimeter of the property rather than through the drainage sale the way it's being proposed or is that not feasible as far as again if there is an alterntive there is a option yes but you know from what we could tell there wasn't really option and but be honest with you you know that's what rely on your the city engineer review We rely on the public works we rely on you know we go through four reviews to you know hash out this things and then it gets to you you know hopefully these things should be worked out it's item that you know you know we spent six months on this going back and forth and uh these questions you know and the question came up and uh you know and that's why we have all those notes that's why we have EV went through all this what we did and uh it's not the first time and uh but you know we' be glad to you know address things if you know if you know if be made a comment if you be a concern you know we can address it but if it doesn't if it you know how can we do you know we can be a mind reader okay um I did a cursory review I didn't um with respect to utility lines you you're aware that the city code requires all on-site utility lines to be underground to be what Underground but I don't put underground the utility lines like electric they're all under they're all Underground on site it's it's something we don't you know I the designed portion we don't get involved with that but I believe it is because that's not what we designed that's not part of the the engineering that's not part of the pareting we do and but I assume the you have no choice you have those Choice the utility I'm sure all the new you know yeah you have a utility I mean you have to you have to submit construction drawings specifications and plans as part of a plat okay and it includes and it looks like you've included all the you know various Pages here you have a utility plan right so I I'm just asking I mean that all of the on-site utilities are going to be underground I didn't see a notation on your plan for that so that that would be on the there is as I said with the side part which I'm involved I'm not involved with the plug part at the side part we never get involved with LEC the electric it's the electrical we never get involved with it's not the part that you even your engineer reviews it it's a part that you know that's uh goes to fpl and they you know dictate what you need to do and uh as far as being underground I assume they're saying it's my clients said this going to be underground so but I have no knowledge I have no control on that if well I well you do have control um in my view but on your utility plan I didn't see any notation making it clear that on-site utilities have to be underground and my understanding is all developers when they're developing developing a project they request power right from Florida power so you have some obligation to ensure that Florida Power and Light when they come in and and do the electric for example that they comply with the city code okay because at the end of the day like I like I said it earlier you're going to have to certify that this project was completed in accordance with the approved plan so I want to just emphasize to you that on-site utilities have to be underground and and I and in my my opinion would be should be noted on your utility plan again I'm I don't argue AR I don't want disagree but we do not get involved with the power given that there were 10 units there before and we building for so the power should be available because we do less it's not a question of availability though as far as the underground it's not something again it's code requires if it's required you know it's going to be part of review it would be part of the comments if it's not required if you know if it was if it wasn't commented on we'd be glad we'd be happy to make a condition all underground going to be the All U going to be underground but you know if if it's a code item we can address and we get comment on with we did address but and Anthony just for refence it is noted on the plat number nine of the surveyor notes right I'm looking at the utility okay plan and the construction of the proposed construction drawings but yes it is noted on the on the plat we would you know I would recommend that you know there be a similar note ility plan so it's not for so it's not for forgotten um if it wasn't a comment it wasn't that you know it was you know usually it goes on the plat that all or underground there are no existing uh utility poll sticking out of the ground on this site I don't think so if there is that's not uh this might be a like a light pole but it's not going to be required to have a like a drop P for the service being underground make sure I'm not familiar with the site that there's no existing actually there is there is on the edge of the property line yeah you can pull it up on Google Earth and see it and I actually just drove by the property moments before I walked in here so there is a utility line running through there this property uh there is one running down the in easement there appears to be an existing in easement over on uh the one side of the property the bottom of the property where where we're looking at it uh there also is a power a light pole that's at one corner of that property that still shows up on Google Earth I didn't pay specific uh attention to that when I was looking at the site just a few minutes ago but uh then you'll tell the line still does run down through there so there's power poles they were active I would assume I would assume they're active any other questions anything else I answer confus you again all all we can do is follow your code we follow you know your review we follow your engineers that's why you know we have reviews does it does it make sense that we postpone this discussion till we can have the city engineering y they run right down through there the plat I mean the plot's got to be is a it's it's an you you're serving in an advisory capacity to the to the the city council um it's a preliminary plat and we have the um you know the proposed um engering drawings you know which I think are necessary to review the whole plat in the project so if the board is if the board's not comfortable certainly I mean you welcome to uh table the item however um at the very least um recommend that um when you when you make your recommendation um that you make the recommendation have subject to the um City council's review and consideration of the um proposed site plan Junction with the preliminary anybody make a note of that well I would make your recommendation subject too they are going to be looking at it to the extent that the you know the city council wants you to review it again then you know they'll be able to do that um so recommend that that you do that you're not asking you asking you're not asking for the board's final approval on these construction plans are you asking for a recommendation no just the preliminary I'm talking about on the on the site plan construction plans final final approval what how how do you mean just recommendation to the to the CED director so the request here before for you tonight is a concurrent application around the same project one is the preliminary plot application and in order for that to get approved you all would make a recommendation to council who then has the final sign off and whatnot and then for the site plan review it's site plan review with those findings required for approval that you're making a recommendation to the community economic development director who and I signed off on the staff report so who would if concurring just like if Council concurring um approves that site plan and then they move forward with the next steps um which is submitting for building permit application when the Full Construction Set is reviewed and officially approved and stamped prior to permit issuance then they do the construction um they have their intermittent inspections they have to pass and then once the city confirms all of those inspections are passed they're issuing a certificate of occupancy at that point it's the hus of the property owner to submit to the city those two um as builts to comply with the certificate of completion and then the Project's done my point is before you make a final recommendation on the site plan I think this preliminary plat along with the site plan should be presented to the city council and that you um reserve your final recommendation um on the on the site plan based on city council's consideration of the site plan in conjunction with the flat so my point was just to your recommendation to council is subject to um you know their consideration of this total package and to the extent that the council has any any comments regarding the site plan I would suggest that before you make your final recommendation you consider those comments okay so you're so just as I'm taking the action minutes here um assuming it sounds like you're probably going to use this language so just so I'm clear um you're saying that the site plan approval which is typically the Community Development director's final sign off um should that we're actually putting the responsibility for review in city council first as an extra step um and can to be heard the city council under the plating statute has the ability to review all information and make making the plating decision so the the site plan and the plat go together in conjunction right so they're going they're going to be reviewing both so my point is to this to the extent that the council has some comments regarding um the site plan um they can make those comments and and they can be if necessary if necessary uh presented back to the Planning and Zoning Board before they make their final recommendation and then it would go back to council because they're well final plat goes back yeah final plot will go back to council but you know the site plan ultimately has to be approved it has to be approved by the Planning and Zoning Board recommended for approval talk about that but they need to they need to consider and approve the construction drawings under chapter 98 so you because these two go they're going hand and glove with one another the pl yeah and the site plan so council's got to make a decision on the plat and they need to see the site plan so they may have comments I don't know they may not have any but I'm suggest I'm recommending to the board that you know they've Reserve uh you know final consideration of the site plan until they hear back from Council and their decision on the preliminary plat the council were hypothetically not approve the pr preliminary plat it's coming back okay so that's all I'm just saying make it subject to the city council's review and consideration so we require the city code excuse me requires that these seven findings be found in order for the city council to provide that final approval preliminary PL and planning commissions making a recommendation around these which are spelled out by code and so city council just makes these findings um the findings required for the site plan they're making and recommending and then the code says community development director is final sign off I'm I'm just trying to understand the because are you saying it should go to four you're saying it should go to council and then back to 846 says that the Planning and Zoning Board and the city council shall review the preliminary PL and other materials submitted for Conformity with the code yes may negotiate any changes deemed advisable plan zoning board and city council shall vote to either accept reject or modify the planning officials recommendation okay I think I'm understanding now so you're saying so I'm I'm just saying if the board is fine with moving this application along we need to hear from the council as well Council on which application I think on all of it okay well I think I understand what you're saying just my notes and making as you're making a motion they just mean Bri they go kind of hand and glove so I mean I don't know how you you know so what I'm understanding is that dissect it is that the city code says the site plan excuse me the preliminary plat must be reviewed and a decision made based on all provided information which includes the site plan you're saying that they could make the city council or planning ass zoning board can add conditions or deny or anything on the basis of the preliminary P findings if something is found in the site plan that is not um compatible with those foundings required for approval that's what I'm understanding which makes sense okay cool thank you got that so are there any other comments questions I I have something to say just one second sir I will'll get to you I promise just waiting to see what what you wanted to present to us okay um are you John sir are you John I am come on up and introduce yourself and tell us what's on your mind I'm John dmore one the I'm the agent for it I'm the Builder so what's your question that you that where we at now on this since you hardly understand I definitely don't understand where we at what are we doing are we is it is there a code that says you can't have your sewer line going do a drainage that's a qu I mean for the city engineer I mean but all the holes every street that has a swi the whole the whole a sewer line underneath it my my only point is that this next stop is the city council right right city council is going to consider this entire entire package right in your application so what I'm saying to the board is whatever if they want to move this along to the city Council that it's going to be subject to the city council's consideration of your application right that's what I'm saying so and I and I just raised a question about the sewer line because it's sticking out like a saw thumb within the code to have the sewer go to decide underneath the swell underneath the EXC retention are we within code to have our sewer line go underneath the retention I that's a city engineer question and the city engineer provided that that is the city Engineers looked at this well the city engineer is not here and I don't think the board really wants I mean you can make whatever comment you want but that I don't know what the city engineer was say he reviewed this and um is it is not a Breaking of any code to do that okay so we're through that okay and the other thing is it says on my building I'm sorry it says on my build permit overhead or underground it shows a schematic with it with Weatherhead and then underground it says these are or obviously if you City heads which I know they have a code to go underground we go underground because if we go overhead we're not getting a CEO right so we spent you know $1.8 million to not have a CE so yeah we're going to go ahead and run it underground if that's any hold up if it is if I didn't suggest it was a hold up Mr I just made it clear that that is a code requirement I'm glad that you're aware that that is a code requirement we've recently had a situation where apparently it was not done so I'm I'm just bringing it up right just making mention of it right okay any questions for me on anything guys our pment was in September we've been trying to get here since September of last year 90 days in a row we didn't have a quorum the last time someone got sick and didn't show up and then I'll just vent for a little bit maybe the wrong time to do it but then we get a comment from from from the surveyor believe it or not it says north east south and west they didn't have the in on there for North so they kicked it back I hope anybody in this room would be able to guess where North is if you got south east and west on there but it one of the things got K back surveyors have seen it five times they see one thing and kick it back and Kyle can attest to this Dave Dicky's gone now but they see and send it back inste saying hey there's three things wrong here fix it it's and they had one time they had for over 3 months it's ridiculous to get to this point for a quadplex anyhow that's all I got to say so thank you I'd like to make one comment as a board member and the citizen here in the City of Cape canaval I look forward to the development of that property because currently it's an isore as a sits so I think uh think we have the potential to see some progress there but I think this is a positive thing once all these uh items will work through I think um one of the things that we're trying to consider here is trying to make sure that all the eyes are dotted and T's are crossed now so that there's not problems later on which could end up taking a lot more time and spending a lot more money so we're just trying to make sure that we get things taken care of up front and it's it's we're not trying to take anything away from you we just want to we want to make sure you're protected I totally understand the appearance board one the lady says well you don't have a balcony on the front no I so yeah we're not trying to take anything away from you we're just trying to protect you make sure things are done yeah okay comments concerns anything else from no out here board members no comment but I would like to make a motion to time for a motion I'd like to make the motion uh to reserve the final decision till after the review by the city council we have a second for that is it which application is that for for both it's uh uh consideration and review of the of the uh plat and site plan recommend of the preliminary plat an approval of the of the site plan subject to the city council's consideration of theary proposed site plan okay I'd like to Let's adjust that motion and if the if the council has any comments regarding the site plan that need to be considered by the board then that that that would come that it would come back to the board for consideration all right I don't know if I could repeat that Rihanna do you have that yes I I'd be happy to repeat it just to and Steve that's the motion you want to make yes that's the motion I want to make that with with the attorney's comments yeah just the one question I guess of you um is that we have all all of the that the um site plan shall not be approved by the director and until the preliminary plot is approved by city council who is to consider all of the application materials in conjunction with their approval that I've got that now um I just want me to clarify you're saying that the site plan itself um if they have issues they they need to send that back to Planning Commission but the site plan won't be on the city council agenda because it it doesn't it the the site plan physically will be included in the packet but the application is not um city council doesn't have the authority light out in code to make a decision on it so would they be sending the preliminary plat back to planning and Zing okay they don't approve it okay got if they will or not I'm just saying they go hand and glove if they have comments that you know may result in uh the matter coming back to the Planning and Zoning Board it it comes back the plot got it yes and uh you know in comments regarding the site plan I don't know think it needs to be going to the city council and and until they have an opportunity to comment I mean to have opportunity to comment just approve the you know the preliminary plat and have no comments regarding the site plan and then it's you know it moves on okay last final say on on plats so we have a motion have a second can you call roll please yes could you who was the second Dr Miller okay thank you um we have uh board member Denny board member gentle core is absent board member Miller that's you okay um Vice chairperson price for the motion and chairperson Russell is absent and board member stoud or the motion motion passes four to Zer to two absent can you clar what was the motion what did you vot on what's the final yes so the um so this is two applications being considered concurrently and so the motion was to approve as recommended in the staff report um and the next step excuse me recommend approval that's the the the power of this board is to recommend approval and then the city council they have the duty to give final approval of the preliminary plot so they're going to review the same exact attachments that Planning and Zoning reviewed um and they have to make those findings required for approval of the preliminary plot and well there's there's one more part to it and so the site plan review itself code says it has to be the director's approval but what this motion does is it says the director cannot approve the site plan until the preliminary plot is fully approved so approve on the counil and consideration of the yes okay so we move along to item number three uh consideration of ordinance uh whatever number it is 2024 to amend the city's building buildings and building regulations to adopt regulations to allow the construction and installation of rooftop amenities on multif family mixed use commercial buildings and so on Kyle yes sir um so this is one you guys have seen at least twice I think we've at least talked about kind of working out the language that we wanted to use for this ordinance so the ordinance is finally here um sorry for the wall of text again but um just going through these are the conditions included um in so many words um so if we want to just very briefly go over those if you guys have any comments questions anything we can we can sort of talk about it um so just to very briefly recap um for Brianna who you were you weren't here for any of this but we have a number of developers who have been uh have shown interest in creating space on their their roofs so above 65 ft which is currently the maximum approved approved height um to have observation decks bars things like that that don't have any additional enclosed space other than the elevators and stairwells that are required by Ada so our code basically said that because of these elevators and stairwells that would be officially above 65 ft they can't do it otherwise fire was okay with it building code um we had our building official at the time um and our current building official have have both um given their their thumbs up uh so we had to address it in our Land Development regulations so this is an attempt to do that um so just to go over these very briefly the first one we just wanted to make sure that every building fire Land Development regulation is covered even if it's not explicitly stated we want to make sure that that's covered so that's what the first bullet does um for multif family and residential the ameni must serve all residents and not be exclusive to only certain residents um and then for commercial there shall be associated with an establishment doing business within the building must be architecturally compatible and integrated so um you know the time of cab for a new development that would be something that they would consider um and at site plan so amenities May exceed the maximum height by 12 feet but elevator and stere Equipment May exceed by a maximum of 15 ft and um we'll talk a little bit more about those amenities in a second the amenity area which includes the elevator and stair equipment shall not exceed 50% of the total square footage of the the roof they shall not be enclosed um and they can include uh open air shade structures that are at least 50% open so umbrellas Landscaping seating things to keep you know people out of the heat um but obviously they have to be stable uh and resistant to movement in storms or if they're not then taken inside um lighting fixtures must be fully shielded and directed downward away from the beach has to meet all applicable lighting codes um can't be able to see it from you know outside of the uh the parcel um signage is prohibited with the exception of small signage within the rooftop amenity area there can be a pro protective and struct there shall be a protective and structural barrier designed to protect safety and privacy music shall not be audible below the rooftop and the amenity shall not this is what I was trying to say rooftop shall not be visible from the ground except for these for mentioned barriers um so I think we we discussed this and I believe that this has addressed many of the comments um but if you guys have any questions or comments I do have a question um in one of our conversations was there a discussion about limiting this to U uh structures that are in the E economic overlay area or was it did we not consider that not not that I recall although effectively the vast majority of buildings that would have I I realize that but I also understand you know there's the holiday in Resort yeah that's a great Point EIC overlay District that and so that's my qu yeah excuse me I'm sorry that that's my question what did we confine it to the economic overlay District or did we leave that wide open I don't believe that was discussed no is that something that we should discuss well yeah to your to your point that holiday in um it's probably the best example I can think of is there the reason to not include them why would we restrict it to the well my thought Susan is not I mean I'm all for rooftop restaurants and I'm 100% for that the the fact that we have height restrictions um the to me in the economic overlay District we've already made exceptions for that uh but along the beach area maybe we don't want to make those exceptions in the beach area because of visibility and that type of thing yeah I think that's a valid comment um you're right so so in obviously in A1A you can get up to 65 ft everywhere else it's a maximum of 45 ft MH um and I believe holidaying isn't even 45 I may be wrong on that it it probably is now we were talking about this new hotel that's coming up the uh the one that's currently under construction yes yeah that's not in the overlay District right it is it is it oh okay all right yes um that both hotels that are currently under construction are in the overlay so really that that area the Holiday Inn is is one of the few commercial buildings that is yeah the holiday in in my recollection might be the only commercial one that's not in District yeah yeah but but I I think that's something that needs to be considered I mean it's a matter of I mean the whole idea behind that height restriction to begin with was so that uh we didn't obstruct the view of Coastline right well the economic overlay district is far enough away from the coastline it's really not that big a deal we've made exceptions in terms of height regulations because of that but we haven't really considered um in my opinion anyway how rooftop um uh allowing rooftop uh activity uh would affect um along the coastline or along the the beach line there right right they may find it more difficult to to meet the lighting requirements as is um I know the port is very very very strict about about it naturally um but yeah that's certainly something that we could we could have added if you guys are if you're all interested what what's the rest of the board think Steve I think it's a good idea to limit it to the EOC District uh other wise we let the genie on of the Box we could have situations and with other structures in Cape Canaveral and get things that we didn't intend to happen to be you know in the beginning here Dr Miller I I agree with that what I don't believe it was anything we discussed I do remember us talking about are we going to talk about this with just new construction or are we going to let existing structures okay okay I'm with you guys I I guess I when I was thinking overlay District I'm sorry I'm thinking like wizard of oit and stuff like that so um but I do think we did agree that we wanted to make it so existing structures as well as new constructions can now we're talking about making sure that it's restricted to the economic overlay you know do we run into problems with that Steve the challenges of the ex existing structures to put anything up on a roof and meet all of the ADA requirements are just astronomical I mean we're talking you're talking about uh getting sanitary up there you're talking about drainage you're talking about uh electrical systems in these buildings that were not designed to push another Riser another floor up uh elevators I mean it's just it's it's it's a bridge too far in most cases with existing the only place that's really feasible is going to be inoc when we're when we're doing a new construction so so Kyle the city council is going to have to look at this right correct so uh perhaps this is one more thing they should consider absolutely sure and I can um I just checked the CRA boundary map um specifically I had it available against the zoning map and the only commercial property is not within their boundary like you said the holiday and property and then there's properties on the northeast corner of Central and North Atlantic and that might be just the CRA the yeah I know overl very slightly different has to check but yeah so that might be the only one and they already built so it's not like they could probably add it but but I I think the intent makes a lot of sense all right if yeah if you could add that yeah does anybody have any so we're saying we're limiting it well we we're talking about including that length for for the C Council to so recommending that be added okay you guys have any anything else anybody else anything do we need to vote on this okay I think you need to open open and close yeah so is there H before we go to vote or uh does anybody out there have anything you want to add they're just observers okay all right all board members is there more to discuss about this particular item Steve I don't think so at least uh from my perspective as long as uh we can uh I would consider approving it as as it sits with the addition of the uh of to only be used in the EOC District that would be on that recommendation otherwise so um I'm I'm looking at um your recommendation here okay and it says uh recommend approval to city council to amend the city's building and uh buildings and building regulations to adopt regulations to allow construction and installation of rooftop amendes on multif family mixed use commercial buildings which satisfy the requirements set forth in the ordinance providing for the repeal of Prior inconsistent ordinances and resolutions incorporation into the code serab ility and effective date the only thing that we want to add to that is uh consider restricting it to the economic overlay okay and in the in the body of the the chapter 82 itself we can add that as a condition yeah modif located yeah gu I just include that in your motion and then we'll include that um we'll make that change and that's what gets presented to council perfect fellow members is there is it time to make a motion any other questions comments I guess I'm just questioning why we're limiting it just to that one area um so I'm I'm going to tell you what my thought is okay my thought was that um you know a long time ago Building height restrictions were imposed um particularly along the beach to preserve um the beauty of the beach so since um we're since we've already modified somewhat the height restrictions Al uh the allowable height restrictions in the economic overlay District then by doing this wouldn't be much more but um if we allow it to happen on the beach then what happens do we do we sacrifice the natural beauty of the beach do we sacrifice visibility do we sacrifice that type of thing question and I'm not arguing with you no I just the building's already there how is that going to stop the beauty of the beachs or how is that going well by by allowing uh rooftop amenities it would it would necessarily add to the height of the structure that's it that's what I'm thinking yeah Steve go ahead yeah I just want to add one thing to that um the economic uh our area here can tolerate the additional noise additional lighting that it would be created by a rooftop amenity where our neighborhoods uh on the beach Behind these uh taller buildings uh or would not be so tolerable to that because those are qu should be quieter areas quieter neighborhoods but it said in there that correct that's well my my concern is is is the density of people you might have up there at a given point in time the as John said the additional height and stuff of of things amenities being put onto that building and stuff and my concern is is it would uh encroach uh to their surrounding residences that that don't have that right now and also I do just want to mention it is um in subar graph B rooftop of many shall be permitted on any multif family building so in theoretically if some multif family building were to get developed outside of the which is a lot more likely than a commercial they also would not be able to do it and so that's something to consider that I wanted to to mention so if you know a condo was redeveloped or something they obviously right on the beach could not do it I think it's I think it's something worth kicking around and and talking about you know it's that was just an idea that I had I don't I don't want to and I'm not saying I'm totally against just it's worth talking about if it's not if it's not reasonable to make that recommendation to um the city council then we don't but well you know the other side of that is it can always be expanded we start in one spot and we get it going and and in the event that somebody wants it's easier to give something than it is to take something away yeah yeah if I mean if the count if City council's desires to to to take that maybe that something that's thrown up on our plate but I think for now uh we would we would limit it to this one areas stff just put up the EOB boundary and it's it's rather extensive and covers the most intense dense part of the city yeah yeah absolutely yes that's correct yeah anything else well let's go ahead and make a motion um does anybody want to make a motion I will um I'd like to move that we um recommend to city council exactly what's written here with the addition of uh limiting to limit limiting it rooftop rooftop amenities to the economic overlay division District I'm sorry economic overlay District John Price second Mr Price uh like to second that motion I'm sorry okay it's a BNA would you call roll please board member Denny for the motion board member gentle core absent board member Miller for the motion Vice chairperson price for the motion chairperson Russell absent board member shroud for the motion motion passes 4 to zero to two righty so we move on to reports and open discussion does anybody have anything that they we have one report that I'm sad to hear can you give us a little bit more background you're leaving do you have some place to go yes yes I am leaving and I I wish that Lamar and and Nancy could have been here tonight um but I am going going private oh you are yeah I'm going to go into the dark side going to try it out and we'll we'll see we'll it's kind of had to had to try uhhuh so are you staying local I'll be around yes and I'll be at seot plantings and you know I live here so I'm I'm a resident so I'll still be at seot plantings and Friday fests and all that so and I know I see I see Steve I don't know if you saw me I saw you at Publix I've seen you playing pickle ball I see you quite a bit oh you haven't seen me playing pickle ball but I see you no you see me yeah yeah but I'll definitely see you where where International yeah we use our friends at pickle ball court saw him walking his walking yeah it was a little embarrassing but that's okay I I I've never laughed at you so well uh wish you the best of luck thank thank you very much service yeah you've done a lot for the city thank you so much yeah thank you guys any other open discussion make a move for make a motion for a Jour I second the motion all in favor all opposed all right what