##VIDEO ID:16NH45QYcds## e I'll go Dave Dave Kum GPI consultant to the city does anyone have any general questions about the plan we're looking to have the plan completed by the end of the year and as I noted so that will position um the towns to apply for um design and Construction Grants uh under the US do uh Safe Streets for all program um the projects are part of that plan so that's why we need to make sure we get everybody's input and make sure that we're satisfied with the the projects that are going to be listed in the plan yes Mike okay so so don't confuse this Pro so I'm talking about the Safe Streets for all us do grant program don't confuse that with the safe roots to school program which is a different program run through New Jersey DOT and the mpos which is also federally funded different program but that is aligned with schools um and those programs have to have uh the the school districts or the towns have to have a travel plan as part of that and then that enables them to apply for Construction Grants um for safe fruits of school for pedestrian safety improvements around schools different different Federal program so it does yeah I think so yeah so so that's another that's another Avenue for for Grants yes one of the top discussion and one of the topics of discussion has been the datadriven approach where you're taking a look back the last 5 10 20 years of where there have been ACC accidents where there's been issues where there's been problems in some cases our own personal experience in intuition tells us that this area is a danger area but it doesn't show up in the data necessarily where where are you in balancing that it's it's an it's an excellent point um so the data driven approach and Julia will talk a little bit more about it there's two aspects of the data driven approach so there is the crash history approach and then there's something called systemic where you look at crashes as a whole and you look at what are the characteristics of the roadways where these crashes are happening and then you look at similar segments that have similar characteristics and you and you and you can do some predictive kinds of things but that's only one element of it that's all data still data you're talking about stakeholder involvement that's another key piece so so this this plan um is a collaboration of both data and stakeholders so the input that we receive from you and other stakeholders is also important so we're not just looking at where the crashes are it gets right to your point so that's what we're also going to talk about today is what's the feedback what have we heard and then um come up with what are some recommendations based on what we heard and we'll we'll we'll share that with you what we've heard from stakeholders including the the committee today thank you sure e they to sorry I just sent an email to a few minutes back to um on that the steering committee meeting um to summary responded back and I attached the presentation for this for um those because I understand that that if they're folks can't see the screen if they're tuning in virtually um it wasn't attached okay okay all right well I'll try to see if I can do that when we're I'm not talking when Julia is speaking I'll see if I can get the presentation out all right thank you Paul okay gotcha okay thank you Paul all right so we'll get we'll get moving here uh so I I briefly talked about the the schedule so you can see um we are at August 14th the next one we're showing is November um 13th for stering committee meeting for we're going to see if we can maybe move that up into October uh and bring back the the get discuss the draft plan uh we'll get the draft plan out to you the idea is the end of this month we'll have a draft plan and get it out to you so you have a chance to chew on it in September meet as a committee discuss your comments get them back to us and then we can uh get back with you uh in October so that's the overall schedule questions okay okay good okay all right excellent okay so what we want to do today we want to walk out of here today is uh getting a committee and I don't know if it's a formal resolu solution but a general agreement on what are the projects uh the infrastructure locations that we want to include in the plan and then talk about non-infrastructure strategies so last meeting we we talked about uh non- infrastr infrastructure strategies that the the committee or you know the the B bapac committee had uh implemented uh in the past and which ones we would continue and we'll touch base on that and talk about some potential other ones all right so now we're going to get right into the infrastructure side of things and I get to turn it over to Julia give you the clicker thank you all right good morning so I'm going to go through all the candidate locations and the and our project recommendations I'm going to go through everything and we're going to have a facilitated discussion afterwards um so I'm going to go into teacher mode now so if you have any questions or or comments write them down and then we'll go over them after when we get to the facilitated discussion okay so we saw this last time this was the um the data driven portion where we looked at the hotspots and the systemic so again the hot spot is the crash history the systemic is looking at um the characteristics of locations that are similar to places that have had a crash history um and last time we identified three potential projects I'm going to go through them really quickly um the first one is the intersection of Lafayette Street and Bank Street and decada Street there's my there's a picture um so we were looking at you know that it was an offset intersection there was no pedestrian Crossing uh warning signs things like that so this was um a potential project that I think um the committee was on board with so that's number one number two is the corridor of ocean Elmyra Leeming uh Landis Street from Columbia to 6th Avenue um so we identified that with the um skents offset intersections all the driveways no striped shoulder uh the signal equipment was outdated so that was um another candidate project um that we would look to make improvements on the corridor location number three was Washington Street from Ocean to Sydney Avenue um and again it's it's narrow roadway we have the parking on one side that switches uh sides at some point and then signal equipment is outdated so that was another um location that we went over last time uh the systemic project recommendations um so we have we did a segment Corridor analysis for Lane departure and drowsy and distracted emphasis areas so we remembered three out of four um that uh turned out to be um local roads with speeds of 25 mil hour or less with a straight alignment um were the uh the ones that had those characteristics which is a lot of the roads um in Cape Island um so I think that ended up being about 200 segments um that would qualify and some of the um recommended improvements would be to install wider Edge lines or enhanced parking stall areas W finding signs and lighting was uh something we decided that would stay in the toolbox and then for um intersections which is the intersection and pedestrian bicyclist emphasis areas um local roads with that are stop controlled intersections again that's a lot of the locations on the island I think that was also in the 150 to 200 range um so some of the recommended improvements would be to upgrade install uh pedestrian Crossings at the intersection so if they're just the the two double lines youd make it the high visibility if it's missing one on one of the legs you would add it things like that um again lighting would be in the toolbox um updates to the traffic signals which isn't really stop control but um if it turns out that the stop control location warrants a signal you can do that um and then install intersection warnings and visibility um as supported by the manual and uniform traffic control devices so if there's a visibility issue For an upcoming intersection you do the stop ahead um you can do in roadway pavement markings things like that so now this one is new this is our sidewalk Gap assessment so what we did was we looked at all the existing locations of sidewalk we did not look at what the condition of the existing sidewalk is that wasn't part of the analysis we were just looking for major areas that have a gap that could be filled so in Orange is all the existing sidewalk um and this is just based on GIS stuff that we received from either the county or the city whatever so if it's not entirely accurate that you know it may just not be in that data set um so the two gaps that we um identified was Seashore Road Broadway um from the West Cap May lower border to uh New England Seashore Road and Delaware Avenue from Brooklyn to Wilmington um so those could be potential future projects as well we also did a bik bicycle facility Gap assessment for onroad facilities um we did not look at any gaps on any off-road trails or or paths or anything like that um so what you see in green is what we identified again based on GIS information uh we received from um either the county or the city or or something that we did as part of analysis for our sjo contract um the lines in blue are proposed projects that we were able to identify that are um I think they're all funded right it's so or no or oh okay all right so besides sunset um and then red are the gaps that we identified um so Broadway from Central to Seashore um Park Boulevard in West Perry Street and Elmyra street with from the the creek to Lafayette Street we also looked at um the committee's um proposals for potential projects um um so we have these corridors here that were identified Ocean Street Hugh Street and Jackson Street um the bottom two are to install um bike Lanes um and the top one is to reconfigure the the lanes by the Acme um for intersections there were Crossings um on Columbia at Madison crosswalks on Perry Street and Congress Street and crosswalks on Benton Avenue at seawell and Howard Street um now the top one does have the high visibility um crosswalk across um Columbia at Madison um but something that we noticed was um to actually cross Madison you either have to go up to Washington Street or you have to go all the way down to beach I think um so there's no marked Crossings to get across Madison um uh in between those two points so that's why we left that one in there um and then these are the ones that were um in your proposal but we think appear to be addressed um so crosswalks at the end of broaden Bank Parry Street crosswalk at Carpenter Street uh crosswalks on Jackson Perry Street at Broad Street um and the beach Avenue bicycle Lanes this map is showing you all the input that we re received either from the steering committee or stakeholders from the focus group meeting or from National Night Out um or or any comments um so the um purple is the stakeholder input and the yellow is the steering committee um input and a lot of these as you will see uh shortly overlap um a lot of the places that we've already identified So based on that we came came up with the following six recommendations um so the top three are the ones that uh we discussed uh at the last meeting the intersection of Lafayette Bank indicator um ocean Elmyra Leeming and Washington Street um and then based on all the other input uh we're recommending um systemic treatments um on Lafayette Street with County coordination um doing the sidewalk and bike lane Gap um on Seashore and Broadway along with any other systemic treatments um that may be appropriate again with County coordination and uh systemic treatments on Lighthouse Avenue and seag grve Avenue so this is an overview of everything overlaid on top of each other uh we have our uh recommendations in green all the input either in yellow or purple as before and then um the sidewalk bike gaps which might be a little hard to see um and then the proposed projects by others so that is uh everything all smashed together and Dave is going to hand out a map of that for everybody to look at yes lots of colors we were running out of colors actually um and then with with that we're going to open it up to the facilitat discussion which Dale you're running so thank you everybody for letting me run through all that um if you have the questions or comments that you wrote down we can always go back to um previous slides if you need to see anything yes that is yes that is an excellent point so we have projects in pretty much each municipality so it's not you know heavy on one or the other all you you want this one you just want the clicker I don't think we have uh anything after that so just backwards okay uh let me let me start out by saying thank you for putting all it this this actually is super helpful in gathering all the data um I just want to point out U that one of the discussions that we have had multiple time including the last meeting and chief falw actually was sitting here talking about it is getting people off Broadway it was the lead story in the star and wave uh which was it was incorrectly written but um I have continuously talked about creating safe Roots if we go safe root to school safe roots for people to get to the beach and to get to town this map if I look at and I'm I'm sorry I'm going to be peral and just talk about West Cape May right now if people live in West Cap May there is not one safe route to the beach because they have to go on Broadway and we've talked about this and talked about it going to bring it up again okay we don't want people on Broadway because it's not safe as you guys know you probably drive down Broadway and everybody uses so the only way to get people off it we can't ban them is to create safe roots to the beach so on this map I like that you're looking at Leeming and Elmyra but that doesn't take people to the beach that takes them to downtown which is awesome love that we are doing as you know we're doing the sidewalks on Park and there are bike lines on Park okay that's not showing on this map we're also doing the roundabout okay so the roundabout project is funded and all that we need to make sure that we talk to to the county make sure that that gets bike Lanes but then you have a gap if we could have a project where we could make sure that we have those streets lined down to the to the um uh lifeguard station on I guess that's Park and then grant that would take people safely from down Park Central Park all the way down to the beach that's not happening here second thing most of the people who live with the Western half of um uh West Cape May which is to that side they every single PE person that I know turns on uh First Avenue okay and a lot of people go down Pacific which is the parallel street right I would suggest that we have a project that makes Pacific a bike route and then just keep people uppr we we talked about i' I've talked about this bridge before this doesn't show up so I think and and that's these are identified for physical improvements the bike lane I think for the bike projects that'll be a a project on itself to update the you know the city bike plan you know to figure out where all this is I don't think that level of detail is going to be communicated in this these are for other major projects to to develop where the best route is and how to get them from point A to point B that's a whole planning project that this project would recommend the fund as a separate project I don't think it's we can include those confusion is that if if it's not delineated on there you've identified six funding projects so that if we want to go get a grant those projects are the primary if I say hey we want to do this and there are projects along those routes that we're creating they need to be identified so that we can get the grants to fund them that that's all OB the other thing the other thing I would mention in this program this us do program they have something called supplemental planning grants so in addition to design and construction of infrastructure could put in here Supple supplemental planning and then that would be you know in there to do an up you know update if if you wanted to then have a study or future planning Pro project to look at other Roots so that's another option just throwing that out there yeah but I don't see how we can look at projects without talking about Roots the bicycle roots or The Pedestrian Roots I mean I live on Leeming I'm looking at the screen and I'm saying what the hell else are you going to do with our street I mean we had sidewalks and we have so much traffic on leing in the last 14 years since I've moved there it's crazy it's just insane how much traffic we have coming down our street now and speeding traffic you know so I mean and I have a six-year-old I worry about that kid going out out the front door so I mean I want to know what's happening but I also want to know that we're providing safe pedestrian and bicycle overla on everything else about the car just the car traffic so I don't think we can talk about one thing without talking about how the bikes are going and how people are walking I also walk a lot of times from leing Avenue into the center of cap uh into the center of Kate May and that area that no house Z where the creek and everything is we love that area in fact we cross over look over in the creek and see what's going with the whatever lives there it is so dangerous there because cars go flying up there and Kate May City has done a great job where they have that little thing that does the the U speed limit um but you if you start walking on one side of the street the Sidewalk Ends so I understand that's supposed to be corrected but you know I'm not sure what you guys are talking about for infastructure and projects and I mean I'm new to this because this is the first time I actually knew about it and was able to talk so you know I don't think how we can talk about one thing without talking identifying as GE is saying what what are people's paths going to be okay so a couple things so this plan is looking at all Road users so it's everybody its PS its bikes its micr Mobility its Vehicles unfortunately uh sounds like nobody here likes vehicles um and we're looking at onroad facilities so the recommended um areas that we're looking at are on roads I think what George is talking about is having a completely separate bike path off of in this particular case Broadway to get them off of that that is where the planning effort would come in where you would do you could do a supplemental Grant or something like that and and have a planning effort but for these onroad facilities what can we do to Pro provide a safe bicycle path in the interim and I I get that but we have I think you know because I walk I we walk to the beach so I walk down rodway and I see the cars cars are backed up from the corner of um Sunset Boulevard they can be parked backed up I've seen them backed up to Westside Market and that's far but and then bikes are trying to get through and even as a walker you you have to be careful because people don't pay attention driving but um you know I think George's point is good we gotta we if we're not looking at the big picture it doesn't matter what's happening on the small side and maybe we say we can't do George's what George is suggesting to get people off of Broadway but we at least have to about and have it in the overall plan yeah and I don't think we're saying don't think about it I think we're just saying you know one of the recommendations would be to assess alternate bike routes yeah I think that we have to put it on paper and say okay this is the direction we all like to go and how can we get this portion worked out or another portion where somebody else has a suggestion of how the bike GRS are going to go yeah I mean the original B committee you know and everyone that was on that committee that's what that map was about the optimal the optimal rout so that was that that was the the original intent before any more planning was done was just to find out and share that information with the public about the safest routes to go from one not necessarily the shortest route but the safest route between two points so that that continues I think educ the public on that where you and I know that the best and safest route is not to go down Broadway but um visitors don't necessarily all right we have yep we have I I need some help in understanding this uh you have five different colors here who are these groups who is the project team who is the steering committee who's who's the stakeholders again I just need a little explanation so I understand this better where the project team so those are the systematic um and hotspot recommendations well not necessarily systematic it was looking at everything all together as a project team these are the things that we looked at everything together and so this is based on what we heard looking at the data this is what we came up with it was what's in green so like our stakeholders people who live on that Streeter not necessarily it's whoever we can get input from um so it was either at the focus group meeting or national naal out or whoever would talk to us whoever's sent us information that's been passed along um the steering committee is you guys so everybody in this room um and then we we had sidewalk Gap closur so that was looking at the the side walks system and looking at the the bike system and looking where there were gaps so that's the red line which there a few up there you can see um and then the the blue was anything that's that's actually on already on the books proposed to be built so you can see some of those things overlap like steering committee was talking about Sunset Bullard but you also see a blue line on there because look something's planned to be H to happen there so we factored all that together in our recommendations right and that's what they are they recommendations based on compiling all this information this is what we recommend if you say no we don't want to put this one in the plan this tell us right or if there's something else you want to add or whatever I mean I heard I heard George talking about about Pacific and Grant and so there were some on road things it wasn't it was all it didn't sound like it was all off-road right so there were some no it's all it's all existing roadway so the the the money you would need to restripe a lot of things signage uh if you did do the one route down Pacific we've talked about all my favorite topic bridge going down first that would be an infrastructure project and and it's a a bike pedestrian bridge from we have a paper Street First Avenue going to First Avenue in Cape May that is something I want to make sure that if we it is possible to do that is one of the projects because that eliminates anybody going on the Broadway it is and everybody I talked to does the same thing if they everybody goes down Pacific from the west side of uh West Cap May and they cross that and Pacific and sunset I'm assuming that's going to be addressed by Bob church when they do the project and I've talked to him multiple times about making sure that we handle that intersection because of this so kind of working in parallel yeah so I assume that's getting that's why I haven't really push that one but the connection to the beach is that bridge okay that nobody ever has to go out on to Broadway where's where's that bridge so I take I take it that this is not it doesn't exist no but I mean where where would it exist it's first first to First oh okay from there's a little Creek West Grant Street in in West K May to uh First Street yeah and there's private property issues there no we own the where's First Street it's a paper street so there is a paper Street going your side is the street also I just have two quick edits no um other comment um one the Madison Avenue we did add um crosswalks too between um um Washington and Beach uh so that was recently across Madison yeah across locations were that um one's right next to the water tower kind of Right Where It Starts yeah Michigan and there's approximately three that were added uh yeah Corgi yeah Corgi uh right right before the water tower there on uh Columbia and then I would say actually probably three more between there and the beach I forget what roads were those crosssection I think New Jersey that's been New Jersey I'm sorry that's been done since July of this year yes okay cuz that was the last imagery we were able to collect was July so yeah it we're we're trying to stay ahead of you you definitely are um and then the only this very minor but I just wanted to make sure you saw that I think the photo of Lighthouse um back maybe one or two slides I think was a photo a Lafayette I'm just just so you see that that that number six am I can't see it very well from back here but doesn't look like Lighthouse and seag grve to me but just just so you see that no that's SL yet yeah anyway just just making sure you saw that this road here yeah yeah exactly yeah four swap four and six names that's yeah four and six should be Flo but anyway thank you sorry about that and and actually just one little other comment I think um if you were to chart local frustration with traffic pedestrians motorists I think the peak of that chart would be right around August 14th so I I I just put that in the record how convenient I wish these people would have frust told us their frustrations at National Night Out right right no but thank you very much thank you um eventually uh is a priority list um compiled with the input of the community and the and the bike committee for instance um I look at what they're talking about Seashore and a sidewalk all the way up right now there's a a shoulder slash bike path bike lane well it's not even a bike lane yeah it's the official bike lane so I guess my thought that one big section do you really need a sidewalk there's not enough people that live there we're trying to pursue an alternate route into the Kate ma from seore Road I mean I've met with Granny town at AC electric right two months ago I sent her another email this week to saying listen I really want to discuss the possibility of you using the right away to get into town a little safer but we have to create routes to get to that that area too because there's a lot of private property along that whole West Cape or lower Township Corridor where the atlan City Electric is and I think with wetlands and Wetland buffers they're they can't pave back there either but we could probably do something if we're granted the opportunity to create a safe um route into the cape Mays from Seashore Road not on Seashore Road so would you agree that putting a sidewalk on Seashore you would rather see uh I I don't know I'd rather see them off a seore road because the amount of speeders that come down there it's hard to right and you could check with the chief on this one uh enforcement is difficult because you have to be there all the time and resources are limited so that's a problem so I think an alternate route might be the option um and then again if we did that now you have Kate May City Public Works on that same dirt road are you're going to put bikes on that part of that pathway to get them into West Cape May um right by Cape Island Creek where the bridge is that's that's unsafe too cuz they have trucks going down there all day long uh so that's another not so safe unless that can be widen somehow that that's a thought so it's it sounds like there's a lot to overcome on that on that so in the we'll call it the interim does it make sense to have a sidewalk on Seashore no it changes the uh where we live you know we put in sidewalks everywhere cost it's also the cost that you would rather see that money go to the alternate or um Atlantic City Electric is not very open to to creating that bike lane that we're talking about yeah actually I when I talked to Ronnie she said sending us an official letter and they'll rule on it and the biggest issue for them is they're putting those giant metal yeah they're repl is that why they're widening that right now so so the the the reality is that when they do that project it's the perfect time to add the trail and and she agreed with that and I but the issue that we have is where do you tie in off of Seashore to get the people to that spot do you do a the S property do you do a little a little ramp off the off the bridge which is an infrastructure project which actually is cuz you can back by Oreo pit back that way exactly right as you get off there's a little road you can go off but you have to be able to take a ramp off so I don't know but I don't think want to on onore in the interim for people that might be walking up and down I wanted to say that I also drive that road frequently Seashore and I see families trying to share the shoulder with dog walkers and bike bike riders so and sometimes golf carts so having a sidewalk along there may be an improved safety especially if it's going to take a long time to get a bike path off the road MH agree and also just to the general point my sense of this planning is to identify areas of concern and possible future projects not that we decide now on each project is that correct well yeah the goal right now is what projects are we going to recommend so there's a very specific amount of money that's available from the safe streets and Roads correct I mean this our municipality is only going to be you know the maximum we can get is 600,000 is there not NE li no there's no there's no cap on the Safe Streets for all program yes it's just competitive and each year that goes by gets more and more competitive because you've got hundreds of communities doing the same action plan that we're doing so that means there's more and more projects becoming eligible for going after those federal dollars right and if you go in with a million dooll request they're likely not going to give you the million they're going to give you a percentage or maybe if you're in the door first you get the million if your if your project rank Shelf ready and it's close to Shelf ready yeah you'll get it uh I believe there is matches I think there's a 20% match 20 or 25% match because some communities have already gotten uh grants for implementation okay so and and just one more question so everybody understands um our timeline is really we didn't expect to have something to take to the to the federal government until the end of this year right it what our goal is to get the put together the um a draft report with the projects uh at the end of this month you got uh the group will review it provide us comments and then we'll come back in October to discuss it some more and then get before Council because it has to be approved by Council before it can be published all right is that approval by all uh councils involved in this project in the steering committee or just keep May [Laughter] City I'm not work I'm not sure that answers my question because if we're here just to support K City projects that doesn't really answer my question my question is are all the counil having this this these aren't Kate May City projects we're talking about we're talking about all the different municipalities here so what's the answer to my question I was been telling my other Commissioners that I'd be bringing back the plan for endorsement is that what the intention is you can it's just not it's not required yeah when we get there if you want to do it that's fine the the one that we need for this is Kate May City but would help having the endorsement from the other communities because yeah we certainly say that this is endorsed by absolutely Point West Kate May absolutely yeah well I I would just suggest rather than debating the merits of individual projects we have everything in here that we ideally we would love to have some addressed someday and then it could be prioritized by the team about which are the most pressing mhm for funding sure it doesn't mean the others have to be kicked out at this point they could stay in there for the future because you can't we're not going to get to Perfection anytime soon no and I think you're right I think forever we have we have to get we want the biggest return on uh this request obviously so we have to get the most dangerous the most difficult the Absolut the biggest return for the dollar so that's our job now is to do our best to figure that out and I completely endorse some of those intersections and things that you have presented that are mostly in K May City because I also drive there I'm aware of what they're like but I especially like parts of the plan that connect our communities because none of us can address those by ourselves very well and I think that's the point of this group yes so I'd rather it's not devolve down too much into this block and that block here because we want the ideal plan now because we're not going to have the ideal plan now that's just my opinion I think also too the reality is is most of the concentration of danger um and pedestrians bike is that West Kate May around town into Kate May City and then of course the routing out across the back bridge um that's a consideration but the I think because we are concentrating on those areas is because those are the most dangerous areas on a continuing basis with the population um one other question that I asked and and maybe it got it slipped by was my concern because of course I live on Bank Street and of course that area um had discussed doing something um with we have the routing uh a great proposal for the bridge to get to the beach um on the uh over by First Avenue um the other question I have is a lot of routing for people that are going into town on bikes pedestrians yes but on bikes coming down Elmyra um Lei Elmyra coming over to bank and then coming into town and then some of those are coming to the beach on on the town side um was consider looking at the area on uh carpent I'm sorry ly um decer lafette around the park um was there any consideration I know one thing that I had brought up was somehow with that two lanes behind the Gazebo to cut off traffic um Regular traffic crossing over the mall they did that during um Co and they block that area off so if you could somehow make either a two-way two-lane bike lane on one of those lanes and then have the other one either for um uh I know the concern is with um the businesses and the trucks coming in to just make that a [Music] nonpublic car area except for um so was there any consideration at all about that area because that's a real Bugaboo too because if you have all this traffic bike traffic and stuff they're coming up they're coming down lii to almyra they don't want to go on that one little strip of almyra into ocean so they're cutting over to bank and then Crossing um and that's decator and it's one way that's the bank street it's one way decar is one way yeah it's right behind the gazebo it's so that's one way so it's great that if you're biking from the the town and from the ocean but there's no legitimate way to go except for what I do is I just go on the the wide sidewall so we're not we're not getting into Alternatives or anything like that we're just identifying the locations that are going to be funded to look at Alternatives we're not coming up with the individual layouts or anything like that that's not part of this plan it is on there oh sorry never mind number one see one project corner all righty and two okay one project that we've discussed in the past um behind the school we had talked about doing a bike lane from St John's to the school uh to get people off of Lafayette to coordinate with the new Walking area that's going to be behind the school ultimately um I don't see that on here at all so we're looking at onroad areas it's only on road yeah because that's like on the seashore that going down same okay so right away it's not shown here but that's you know it is a consideration yes okay that's all I want but it's a trail it's not it's not an on-road facility e e yeah that's that's Central Avenue and Broadway is that's Central there yeah yeah so if we're looking at one of the you know recommended things is to look at um Broadway SL um Seashore we could extend that down farther which we we did identify to do um systemic treatments throughout the entire Corridor so we would look at that intersection and then Central and Park is is a project that right now that West Cape May is moving forward with so that we will be studying sidewalks bike Lanes as part of that project there and it it would go to that intersection should that be on there is it should be blue right on there project by others that you guys are doing very true yeah we this map has a lot of colors so they some of them might have gotten uh overridden that that is an existing project that probably all be yes that's good to know it's blue one more quick point and it it's it's always into the details is I think with a big thing like what they did in West in uh Kate May point with the speed humps on um yeah I mean that's that's a number of places in town West Cape May even your alternate down Pacific is at um some areas and and make sure those speed pumps that still speed humps that bikes can still get around them but those are real tra those are real slowing down the traffic measures that I'd like to see in the in the city um that's anation so again it's it's the details and in key areas to slow traffic down yeah that that was a county project that did those uh speed humps there on Cape and Lighthouse Avenue but when we get down to the details I'd like to see some of those key areas that that you do Factor those in uh I one thing I just like to ask about because I can um I lower Township did a traffic study on seag grve Lower Township did a traffic study on seag grve I saw that written up can you tell us a little bit about that the process of uh meeting with our engineer at this point after that study to probably to maybe do three two to three speed tables on Sea Grove they're the speed humps you're talking about D corrected me before the speed tables right no um and we're we're finding locations where we think they will be prudent for slowing down the traffic on that road definitely a cut through I I like driving down there because the houses are nice you know I don't speed when I go down there but I'll tell you um that's one area we're going to be doing that and I think there's other spots in the township will probably once you start doing that everybody wants it did it and Kate made Point first everybody wants them oh yeah oh yeah they do help there's no doubt about it um it'll slow people down it slows people down yeah I also like driving on that road but I don't do it during the summer because there's just too many bikers and PE and other people and sunset Boulevard's worse I mean there's I know but too and I mean d and I worked on a project on Stone Harbor Boulevard for years together and we put speed humps eventually he had retired from there and so did I but that all happened after the fact to slow traffic down on SE uh Stone Harbor Boulevard and Middle Township going into Stone Harbor with speed humps there as well in front of the okay well I think that would really help on seag grve for some of the concerns I had about safety for pedestrians and bikers so that's great agre we're going to do that all right um I guess we'll summarize now what we've discussed so we've talked about um you know show uh the intersection of Broadway and Central um some other routes to look to move people you know to come up with key routes to bring people from West Cape May through Cape May to the beach bicycle routes bicycle routes and also you've got to look at the pedestrians as part of that too yeah so um you know cuz on the west side of West Cape May trying to get across you still don't have a good walking path to get get there so um it's still part of the study that we would have do so that would be one of the recommendations we would do is to do a supplemental study to come up with these key routes and and then also it could also fall under infrastructure improvements because those routes will need infrastructure for the in order to implement them so yes and and the six recommendations that were originally made everybody seems to be okay with those six recommendations so those will stay but then we're going to do some adjustments right we'll extend we'll extend the Broadway down to Central and uh and then also on Lafayette and Bank Street and decater we'll extend that to include while can that okay so and then the other item is the other item is uh speed humps to be considered in in locations to also help in calming the traffic down to slow it down does that roll into systemic potentially it could yeah okay all right do we do we have an agreement I mean there was a bunch to discussion about the sidewalk on Seashore and and whether that should be a prioritized item in terms of cost versus benefit uh I don't know if we came to a conclusion as a group and I don't know who makes that decision but I think there's I I would think my personal opinion is that is not a big that's a lot of money and it's not a lot of benefit for what we're looking for that's what I would say so I wouldn't I personally would not vote for that as one of the top six projects well we'll include it in the plan but it doesn't necessarily it means it's going to happen right it doesn't yeah I mean believe me you're going to put a lot of these recommendations in the plan but it's going to we're going to be picking them off based upon the funding and and how well they will score when you're putting in that Grant application because there's other factors that go into the grant applications um you know so so you have to look at okay what's going to what can we do and make sure we can get the money to be competitive so there's a lot of other categories we got to check off when we're putting in these projects for funding so so this is looking at systemically every possible Improvement but you can't add them in later if you haven't looked at them at this point when you're going for funding it's better to have had them in the plan at this point as potential projects is that so these would be potential projects so the other arm to that is the systemic treatments where we would have a a big list of locations and you know the potential treatments to do systemically um and if you want to make that a project and say okay let's do systemic treatments on the first 50 locations and then that becomes a project it's a little it's a little weird cuz it's not typical like what everybody's used to um where we just identify a corridor and we do everything um okay yeah this is sort of the opposite we we pick uh one or two counter measures and we apply it to everything to you know 50 routes or something like that we spread it out so it's like a funnel really if we don't have things here at this point later it's hard to add them in when you're going for grant funding is that part of what I was trying to get at that we've looked at the whole thing right yes later is when you prior prioritize and you had mentioned supplemental planning correct so there are supplemental yeah yeah so we would have a recommendation in the plan that says you know there should be you know supplemental um planning for the um alternate bike routes that are Offroad or just just to get bikes or pedestrians you know from West K to the beach or generic about it um so so gives you more options later on is Perry Street between Kate May and West K May in number five is it represented here at all where where we'll move into the roundabout as you leave Kate May and you're on Perry Street and you're going towards the proposed roundabout is that on here it's not one of the no it's not but it is it is on the map yeah it says the sidewalk bike Gap area G the Gap sure yeah and could Steven Street be included on the uh seag Grove Avenue I know it's West CAP man not lower Township but if you're looking at uh tables to slow down traffic good point it's called yeah yes that the other right still is yeah they don't they don't update as often as we'd like is tical to the situation on seag grve which you guys are addressing okay all the way to Fourth St in the in the sunset B yeah but up to the intersection at what is that is that 4th Avenue the Fourth Avenue so it be from here to here right it's all the continuous tourism sure yeah yeah there's Winery there there's Farms Hiller's house okay I may I may be corrected by Dale I'm not sure but the the Sunset Boulevard project it's probably should take off for the next two years when the the Project's done there um down at the point for the U The Preserve that's there at higsby Beach and Pond Creek um there's a huge project that we all know that's happening on Sunset Boulevard and and at that time I know they'll have crosswalks at seag grve and Steven Street and some of those intersections there to slow people down that's all part of that plan but that's 20 267 yeah they're not going to start till towards the end of 26 and there'll be a little bit of overlap with the Pond Creek but they're talking we I connected them so that they would both know what the other one was doing but the quicker fix would be um like speed humps um on Stevens and on seag grve SE happening would be the quicker fix for routing what's that would love a grant for Stevens and and definitely do we would do the same thing as with C it's an extension it is and we probably would figure out if we can use the ements and wind the road so I'm excited about all these inter Community Connection routes that none of us can do on our own well and address the whole route so I like that we're taking this approach so we'll move on to non-infrastructure strategies okay turn it over today turn back to me okay so this should be easier so thank you all for that discussion that's what I think right okay so um recap last steering committee meeting we talked about we went through the non-infrastructure strategies that were in the bike ped plan of 2016 and said hey are we continuing these are they done whatever and we identified for each of these categories which ones were supported to continue so just briefly to recap those uh under public education and awareness said we wanted to continue the public service announcements and brochures on safety topics publish a bike map um highlight and promote the the uh the bike ped improvements and assets there was a question mark about applying to become a bike or walk friendly community said hey you know maybe we'll talk about that at the next meeting so whether that's we want to discuss that or not um then we go to school related uh the items that were uh noted to to continue were integrating education programs in the school curriculum encouraging walking school buses or bike trains um and I should say um utilize not utility utilize safer of schools or TMA resources to encourage biking and walking school so that's those two categories training uh said the committee said they wanted to continue partnering with Community groups uh to provide bicycle training and then on enforcement uh Implement a ped safety enforcement program and Institute a community oriented traffic cing campaign so this is what you all said at the at the last meeting okay so we went to the focus group we had our Focus Group meeting and our National Night Out and we have all the backup data um but just to summarize what are the key takeaways that we heard from folks on that and I know some of you were on either the focus group meeting or or a couple of you were at National Night Out so biking and walking were clearly at the top for the safety issues in comparison to driving or lowp speed vehicles uh the top audiences visitors and tourists and Youth and how to reach them I think overwhelmingly and the numbers there represent how many responses so it's a small sample of folks we did not have 50 people responding between the focus group and the National Night Out so uh it's not it's not a big group but overwhelmingly social media seems to be an idea for how to to get messages out uh followed by a vehicle uh rental businesses and tour operators so we had a question about what's the best way to improve safety for uh Elementary Middle School students and the top uh non-infrastructure answers were uh school competition recognition was seemed like people like that one along with police education and then continuing the walking school buses and bike trains so that was something yeah D what would the school competition recognition be well you could you could set up a competition for uh students to come up with um a video or come up with a social media post and have a competition for that how to promote safety how to encourage safety among students um or you know you recognize you know recognize uh students that are doing something to Advocate safety in their Community things like that so that would be at the elementary middle school level and then we talk about high school students uh videos and discussions in schools guest speakers and police education which we're already doing to to some degree so uh those were some of the what we're hearing people thought would be most effective then we we asked them what what do you think are the most important enforcement issues and distracted driving cell phone use and speeding aggressive driving Ros at the top and then locations of concern which we factored into our map uh or they listed on the left and a couple comments we we received um from folks um this sounds like what I'm hearing from George the top bullet there on additional comments um or that was about bike path over the canal and through to Park Boulevard uh Transit bus drivers seem to be something that that folks complained about a little bit um someone suggested requiring the house renters to post information about road safety and rules if they're not already an islandwide speed campaign with signage was suggested and there was um concerns about golf cart usage in bike Lanes so th those are some additional comments that we heard so taking all of what we heard from those comments and priorities and looking at what um we heard from the steering committee last time here's a couple of things that that we're recommending or putting out there for your consideration whether the committee would want to put something like in the plan for a non-infrastructure strategy um the school safety competition recognition program uh the second one would be um implement or strengthen video discussions videos and discussions and speakers for high school students implementing a social media plan and then you engaging key influencers that's a big part of social media you got to find the who are the kids watching who who influences them is there a way to to get to them because that's how you that's how you reach them and then um increasing messaging to visitors um through rental agencies and tour operators so I think now we're really just want to open that up for discussion and what the committee thinks if there's or other ideas yes local of are very trucks all over they and and seen our streeten car and called the bus about because I was like this is ridiculous you know but know buses have to [Music] know and way I comat have to as our own Community we have to kind of help enforce it because resources for them to be everywhere we have to say we're going to be liit and I think that could be kind of a campaign for the people who live here we want this to be a safe Community where you're driving you can't be on your phone you can't be you know you have to go speed just do the speed and people will eventually get it okay thank you if I can add to that uh I'd like to add the public um Works people um along with the businesses I'm seeing a lot of the public works the Recycled trucks are going way over the speed limit um and so I'd like to see that a little bit mentioned um to add to that as well so what do you think a strategy would be that we would put in the plan for those items what would be a strategy well for the businesses the people who are coming in and doing business a lot of them they need to be you know be given the information sign off on it say that if they're going to work agree you know they're they're going to take responsibility for the workers okay what about public and what about Public Works same thing training it's just some you know continually bringing it up and and reminding them just reminding them mhm okay okay a question back make the whole island 25 [Music] well not on Broadway County the county county will do 25 that's it they can't but you could have speed bucks you can't have them everywhere yeah and you know at least on your major Street and and get them to slow down without having a policeman at every cor yeah I meaning I would love to have speed PS but emergency vehicles use it every single day and when [Music] c yeah day yeah I could wait for that to be and you know the police go screaming down the street all the time they're allowed to if they're responding to an emergency yeah I just saying I mean I'm not saying it's bad but they'll never everybody will nevered yeah well and we're kind of getting a drift of what the focus of this is this is about behavioral not about infr speed bump is an infrastructure change right so this is talking about how do we change Behavior right are two different things maybe at the bridges we we kind of get talk about it so so so maybe so maybe signing Billboards messaging so I think that was I think that was in there one of the uh Island wides speed campaign signage so that was that was mentioned so so yeah a lot of your stuff is focused towards the school kids and I mean the school kids here ride but I'll tell you we don't ride bikes in July and August here I'm too afraid it's it's dangerous and even like on if you go like we're leing if we go into the side west that's on the other side of Broadway people go flying up those streets okay so those four that are up there are those is there support for number one sure I like that one I think that's am I hearing that is a consensus support for number one all right how about number two is there is there support for number two for high school kids are they going to listen you'd be surprised the actually do listen yeah they won't tell you they're listening that's correct that's exactly how it works is there consensus for number two there is okay how about number three implementing social media I hear mixed I hear mixed reviews on that yeah not for students maybe for reaching adults and uh uh businesses uh you know and then maybe you could get some of the local businesses to sign on to being a safe drive we have safe drivers we endorse the cape Island safe driving campaign that would be how you might be able to use social media so why why are you saying not students because there's a lot of uh they cuz we're not going to be able to keep ahead of Which social media they're following in time to actually plan something that they to watch that is a fair point yes okay the other and if we promote something they're not going to watch it cuz it's not cool that's why you need an influencer that's why you got to get to the influencers you got to get the people they watch to help you promote that right try to do that I'm just saying that it's probably not the most effective and there are Taylor Swift to put a message out there right right there are more recommendations coming out Nationwide that Timothy teenagers and children should not be on social media so I would not gear that as a way to reach them from from a government entity Timothy sh is that his name they all follow him get for the filming yeah so what am I hearing three no no thumbs up three no yes I mean yeah I think it's adults but not such get to the kids and school kids but if you're doing stuff in their school you know they're not the ones driving the cars which is probably the we have on in thisa so so I'm hearing social media maybe adults and maybe some some I'm hearing maybe both I'm hearing like mixed reviews getting a key influencer would be greaty that's great yeah yeah yeah yeah but again you know our biggest problem is June to September which you know the high school students the local ones you're talking about here uh they're not big influencers of the problem it's really the visitors who are expanding the number of bicycles the number of lsvs Etc I I think the emphasis should be on the visitors some way or other so the target audience is not really this you're saying it's not so much students and schools it's more the tourists yeah which kind of ties into number four yeah as a merchant I see the kids high school kids working in all the restaurants at night riding their bike somewhere in their black outfits no lights Yeah you mentioned that last I audience I think targeting okay all AUD you may have to do a different social media or other type of campaign for different audiences um with a you know okay so I'm hearing some support for for there's some I know there's some dissention in that about adults versus versus students but I hear there's some support on that what about and then increasing number four messaging to visitors through the rental and tour operators yes we've uh customers that's great yeah we uh the yeah Kate May City had a group that actually met with all of the folks from Yes uh right and uh I mean they have brochures and the like that they gave and the all those operators were all extremely Cooperative very anxious to help us out I think you ought to add realators to that list we we want I mean we also targeted property owners who are renting their properties um people bring their own lsv sometimes but they also rent lsvs themselves so so Bob I missed what you said what real realtor real yeah so so what I'm hearing we're already doing it but do we think there's room to strengthen it and increase it I think always and it probably should be repetitive you know okay okay so we can we can supplement those so any other thoughts so we will add these to the existing list that we already have from the committee as these are additional strategies if uh what I'm here is a consensus on these yeah L include the um ebikes and scooters and all the e which are not necessarily rented they're just privately held that seems to be probably about half the volume so this was about getting going through the rental agencies and the tour operators right so right so do they you know if renting though you don't think they rent the ebikes not everybody rents they do they do rent those too their own or they have those low speed vehicle scooters and all e bikes scooters yeah all that so I live on CGI Street and I have to look both ways on one way street all the time because just zipping around in the dark and it's scary so question is so the question is um so we're talking about messaging to get to the rental agencies for those but you're saying for folks that are doing e have ebikes they're not renting them you know would these other three strategies along with what was already uh out there in terms of messaging to students Etc help to get to those I think number three would help with the social media but I think by far in way it's got to be a a different way a different way of reaching the private owners okay which are restaurant workers our our residents and visitors of course there is a second home on Facebook group that a lot of people put stuff up about you know they're having issues or whatever how do you handle but maybe somebody be putting up about these issues okay that would be great y good good okay I'll add real quick if I can um as I as I watch this program and and I've been at most of these meetings I've been here a long time um I've watched the roads change I've watched them develop um I've watched us turn from a a you know 7even eight or three-month town as far as tourist is concerned even in lower Township you know we run all way through December we have January and maybe a little bit of February off um the increase in traffic has made our jobs a little bit harder um but most of this comes back to our enforcement as police officers and my job to make sure that my officers um at the instruction of the manager's office um and the mayor and the council and both Burrows so I listen to all three um so my job is to make sure that we're doing doing our job to increase our enforcement uh and which we have through the lsv committee through the bike Safety Committee we've been out there you know we have the positive helmet program that we're doing not that that's this is off again going a drift however but our we're doing most of these things here it definitely could be increased uh my promise to this committee and the people that are here and those that are watching is that we at the K May Police Department that covers West Kate May K May and K May point will continue to do our job to enforce it um it starts at our ground level my Patrol Division uh is made up of 20 officers plus the the class twos and ones at work here um you know we're as as strong as we can be it's I don't care if I have five guys working it's still our job to enforce these laws so as best we can we'll continue to do that that's my promise to you um and you know I I do most of the social media on my end and I have two children three children but um you know that are of the ages 15 and below and it's Tik Tok or in you know Instagram hard to grab that group base but um and we have a lot of students or kids that come here from lower Township have that that group of kids that rides over the beach the board the bridge every day and I watch them come over the bridge no helmets on doing wheelies down the bridge and it's you know it's those mod bikes and I'm just like and I know half of them parents I'm like they send them over to Kate May and West Kate May and the island to enjoy the day and then there our problem for the day you know and then they leave at dusk and and they're leaving at dark hours going back over so um I have been in contact I work very closely with Kevin Lewis the chief of police in lower Township um you know we just got got together on an lsv issue because a lot of the lsvs were shooting over the bridge uh using our roads that aren't they're they're over 40 mph not they they people complain um and I will give credit to all of the lsv and bike um uh retailers and sellers here in town they they're very attentive and they'll put whatever message out that we give them instructions their instructions I speak to tally at Kate mcart her instruction list is like long people take it they put it in the glow box and they just drive on She's Like Chief I can't control what they do when they leave here same thing with both of the bike shops when they leave here I give them a helmet but if they don't wear it it's whose problem is it you know so um continuing our enforcement is is a large part of this we'll do that and continue that um and again that's my promise to you so any questions or concerns on the enforcement end of it I can answer I did have a report for Jeff but he asked me but I figured we wait for this presentation to come about I did send you that report as far as the the the accidents that had happened it was a low number but that you there's still people falling off bikes there's still people you know coming down Broadway I cringe every time I drive down Broadway coming past bellita like oh my goodness why are you driving on this road I was present when the accident happened with the bus driver well the bicyclist fell into the bus path and killed her um it was her fault however um it was still unfortunate um I deal with Sunset Boulevard even in the c m point I do on both ways when we speak about the the caling devices the K May K May Point put in I think they work for K May point I don't know that they would work for everywhere in K May City um but I'm willing to try you know I like the feel when I roll into the Stone Harbor it slows you down going into Stone Harbor um you know we've we've on when back going back a little bit to your street um a few before this Council or this buau Commissioners was in probably 15 years ago they actually had a speed hump there which are illegal um and it just kind of just people hit it and they just get mad and just they go faster when they go past it so um it's a very busy road uh I do I do I do travel at the fire department when they were here they were coming across they pretty loud and proud people do crazy things they we had a that's across the street and there were fire trucks there and people were trying to get around the fire trucks I tell people all the time they come to can't May and enjoy their vacation I just want them to slow down and smell the Salt Air that's my that's my point I tell people here there's two points here come here on vacation don't leave on probation come here and smell the solid air and slow down so again I don't know I don't to add to this we will continue our enforcement effort I will work along with Chief Lewis as far as the connection point between uh ourselves because he also covers parts of Sunset Boulevard um Mr lafy will I'm sure return to him maybe send a few extra officers down there run some speeds you know we're run we can run it congruently concurrently with with lower and and and slow some speeds down there on that connection into K May point I do feel maybe Sunset Boulevard could maybe be evened out it jump speeds um there's two different speeds levels there I think one three pardon me three when you get toward something say maybe just have one consistent speed going across there the county and I think the the ask to the county is hey we can't do it but again it's if together I spoke to Bob church just 10 days ago to that and there's a formula that they have to follow the state form there is there is there's no doubt but we want that to happen so take that route and let's figure out how we can do that yeah it's collectively definitely collector I I do agree agree with Ken as far as that's concerned make it the island like listen you go to Wood speed limits 25 the whole island John harb Boulevard you know what I mean so I you know there is a Formula just like the manager said both managers have said that so um sunet Boulevard there's I'm sorry it's 41 Sunset Boulevard there's no houses there and that's part of the D you can correct me or at least send me in the right direction that's why that's 40 there and it's at the end of the road right before you get to the the gift job I mean that's and I think I think our our fight now manager lafy is that we you're with the in you know in two years you're going to have a very busy area down there with all that traffic that's going to be that you're putting in there so maybe that's our reach hey you've now added this these these walkways and paths back there it's going to become busier just because there's no houses there the traffic and bicycles are going to get you know Ken's going to want to go down and go down that trail so the bicycle it should be 25 I mean I'll you know I'll I'll support it I'll fight it whatever I need to do you know I've had a long relation with Mr Foster and and when he was at the county you know they have their formulas they have their job to do but again as the three towns and three managers and Mayors get together and and write that letter yes K yes sir yes sir speaking of that project the project they could use the old C line c train line it goes up from Kate may cross the seash crosses bore goes through Farm goes all the way out to the to the by that could be a New Jersey Transit does yeah anyway I'll end there like I said we'll continue our enforcement we could do better we could do more H it's not that we're too busy or whatever it's just we're busy you know so we can't be everywhere so you know I respectfully all of my all three of my towns Commissioners as are here and Mr lafy as far as that and this and these committees and GPI um again enforcement is a huge part of this you can change every single Road here but if I'm not stop stopping the bicyclist without a helmet or the the car going too fast I'm not doing my job I'll continue to do that and push that message to our officers that's that's my word to you all right thank you Chief appreci question for chief so do you feel I know that nobody wants to be a policeman anymore and really tough to get new recruits right is that still the we're doing pretty well I again this this mayor and Council we're doing we're doing okay but you know we've increased the staff through the the manager office and and the mayor and Council and both birs we've you know we're getting our numbers up there um we didn't see the impact that Wildwood and other towns did that they usually hire 50 and they only got 15 um you know so but if you will notice there's more bike officers out here walking around we have our compliment of 12 to 15 class ones and twos listen I'd love to have 40 people but managing 40 people is even harder so you know lower Township has 50 40 something you know so you know you could throw 30 more officers at me that doesn't slow down every single car I could put a car in every single street so again enforcement for us we you know if you look at my my monthly that's we send out our our car stops are up you know I mean it's one of the things I credit Lieutenant Ma and Lieutenant Walker for is being hard on the Patrol Division and making sure they're out there these guys eight D DUIs in August I mean for us that's a lot lower that's a that's a night respectfully manager but you know I mean for us eight D our guy your guys are out there hustling these streets I guarantee you that so we'll continue yeah my point is that it's not a budget problem it's not a budget problem it's a it's a Tik Tok and Instagram problem that tells them not to be cops that's a different different story it's you it's you list of 35 we don't on a civil service list and last list is four four right I had one and I hired him Robbie Elwell but chief on a positive note I see the bike patrols all over town every day I apprciate it's great because they're in the nooks and crannies they're in the little intersections and all over and they're really uh maintaining that lsv concern and we're out there we could do better like I always said but we will continue to do our effort and continue to due diligence to do so so that's my promise to you thank you Chief the one the one thing that I I heard mentioned there's a possibility if the committee was interested was about unifying the speed limit on Sunset Boulevard is that something to consider as a strategy in the plan so that's something that we could add in there so okay so it's um if the count have to be 25 and then we get all the non then you know consist City and they're with that street have it yeah that's what's on and they also have speed onet right are cross from okay to se and there's another one the entrance in the K May Point they'll have speed tables there right so I mean at least from and then walkway Reas go back to Pacific Pacific as you cross Sunset that's the start of walk building out to the so there a cross every single right inter w we about walk okay that boardwalks environment sensitive areas all the way into wide goes to the park lot then it's okay that okay uh I just have a quick one on the on the speed limit that we did get some push back um when we were looking at going the 20 miles an hour um but that really came out of this committee um councilman Mike jger really pushed for it on a council level and I've heard literally nothing but positives about the 20 M hour since it pass there was a little push back from a couple people but and then um the newer LED speed signs which record the speed are showing us that we have we have data numbers that show us the speed has gone down and it's not necessarily 20 M an hour but we're seeing it 5 miles an hour lower um and you know what we did to talk about that a little bit was like Hey if you start at the top of Washington and end up down at the mall you know from Riggins at the turn there down to the mall what's the difference in 5 mes an hour and it's like seconds it's not even minutes right so um the the amount uh of um data that shows accidents and at at that reduced speed made all the sense in the world to me um again had a little bit of push back to start but since then have had nothing but compliments and I just say that to this group that helped push that through and lastly I I got a com a a photo sent to me by someone one that I just thought was kind of funny it was a speed sign and they had and it was I forget what community it was but they had the 20 mph seat speed signs but every other one said 20 is plenty and I just thought you know that's kind of a cute um fun 20 is plenty um and got the point right across and and was memorable y Zach did did did you just change the speed limit to 20 by an an ordinance that you put it on you didn't have to do any traffic studies cuz we've been told every time we change a street speed we have to do it we we changed it by ordinance right we sort of studied it yes U Dave I've been sitting here listening and I mean you know to coin that old term it takes a village to accomplish something well between enforcement between calming traffic through infrastructure between communication via all the these other techniques I mean this is a sort of as we've been saying all along comprehensive and if we can calm traffic with infrastructure then we don't need the enforcement so much because it's you know those kinds of things I mean these are obvious but yes right so I guess yeah go ahead Cather I was just going to add U when we were talking about uh lowering the speed limit islandwide uh we were very happy in Kate May point when we were able to get the county to lower it to 25 on Lighthouse and on Cape cuz those are County roads but we made the decision to leave it at 25 for all the roads in Cap May point because during the season when there are a lot of people there the streets up here narrow because of all the vehicles and all the people and we walk on our streets we don't have sidewalks we don't really have a speeding problem in the summer and in the off seon it's empty and so it's not really an issue then for us in Kate May City you're you're very dense and and lots of uh densely settled and and and occupied and and lots of people visiting where you might need lower and that's fine but if we got down to I don't even know what it is on sun on uh Seashore Road at this point is it 50 no 40 40 okay but you know if you got that down to 30 or 25 that'd be great but I think going down to 20 on the whole island is going to be difficult in the rural areas and there are rural areas of lower Township that they're not going to be thrilled with 20 miles an hour so people live along the don't like it doing 40 either they put up their little signs slow down I'm just saying you don't necessarily need to go from 40 to 20 that's all so you know as you're all speaking I'm thinking about what are we going to put in this plan right so two things we go back Sunset we'll check with Kate May County you see what their ultimate plan is if that's a unified plan for speed limits there then we won't but if but if it's not then maybe we'll put something in suggesting a unified plan regarding the speed limits as a whole you know a strategy do you know do we would the committee be amable to you know I don't know how how we don't have to get real specific but do we say consider lower speed limits um I don't I don't know how how we would frame it or we don't address it in the plan I guess that's why I'm trying to figure out what what would what would you see as a you know putting in the plan regarding speed limits anything about that or consistency consistency I mean there there's not a lot of speed limits over 25 you have seore coming it's 40 yeah Bay shores 35 New England roads uh 35 oh I'm sorry it is 4 you're right toward the end so there's really only three roads that are affected and the question is can we convince the county to get it down to 25 so Stone Harbor is what 35 35 Boulevard yeah uh so we got a we got a call from people who are watching the live streaming and they cannot hear anybody who's not using the microphone so please yeah you know keep it close and if you're talking so uh you know as a courtesy for the people watching the live stream plus if they watch the replay they can't hear it either so thank you de any thoughts with your background like on a strategy for speed limits to we address it in the plan say more more like you know cons you know lowering where possible be more consistent I I do there there is a graphic that the New Jersey DOT put out in terms of the potential for fatalities at different speeds so at 45 85% of The Pedestrian auto accident would be they would be dead yeah and and and each 5 m hour increment increases the likelihood of a survival so I mean that alone to me makes total sense uh yeah so maybe it's just a general statement in there because it's really up to each of the towns to decide how they're how they're going to address that but encouraging just encouraging it's yeah it sounds like it's just the county rout maybe so maybe it's just it's a general statement I about encouraging lower speed limits where possible right or consistent or consisten consistency we can put a statement in about that okay all right I think we're done with non-infrastructure strategies I appreciate everybody's input on that so we're we're ready to just to wrap up so just the next step so as we talked before we're going to try to get this plan drafted by the end of this month get something back to you all then we'll give you a month to give us some comments back and maybe the the committee will'll meet and discuss the comments and then give us maybe a unified set of comments and then we'll have a chance to to look at them address them and come back to you and in October to talk about resolution of those comments on the plan so that's kind of the idea that sounds good all right so I think with that we are are done today so thank you and turn it back over to Mr chairman okay well we've gone over a little bit and so we're going to just wrap this up um we uh just some simple uh housekeeping we need to approve the minutes from last uh meeting so do I hear a motion I hear a motion do I hear a second second second all in favor I I opposed right thanks um Ken Holland uh is a potential new uh member if he's interested in joining us the the um the way this happens is we have to make a recommendation to the city clerk is that correct Terry sure yes okay if you're interested and then he has an application an application okay so go to the city clerk um I can put in the minutes that we recommend that he become a member yep and then they he has to fill out something with the city clerk can you put in a good and then and then they'll put that before city council correct all right um there's anybody else have anything new business-wise that we haven't covered today thank you for the uh presentation and uh all your work and Paul for your work with the technology the chief thank you do I hear a motion to adjourn second second anybody in favor of that good so to do didn't to let me take a picture of that [Music] en it always and for beater yeah so I just wanted to tell you I got a really good [Music] away secret that oh [Music] of we did do 15o theall right there go Street the 2 through exactly then tickory ticket I don't it doesn't stick so if somebody's going yeah somebody's going they're going mil yeah but you know that the data we're getting from the signs is so clear that people have slowed down it's hard to was and I sign is I watch people yeah no exactly you know you remember what Bob Church said those things that 35 to $4,000 a piece mean oh my God you you'll burn most of your grand up yeah are get me committee doing the auxilary then I didn't want to beat C now you give me some what you I go I turn it