##VIDEO ID:BQzdVU59Qss## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good good afternoon everybody we have a special meeting here of the city council of the uh city of New Jersey excuse me of Cape May City New Jersey we are in the Cape May City Hall Auditorium today is Tuesday o October 1st 2024 the time is now 3 49 please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance Al the United States of America to the repu for it stands na indivisible liy and justice for all thank you under the open public meetings law notice of this meeting was sent to the C May County Herald and the Press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of council posted on the city website and the K May City Hall Bolton board notice is hereby provided that K May City Council meetings are audio recorded and or video stream live live video streams are posted to the Kate May City website city of K May is not responsible of audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable roll call Deputy Mayor Balwin here council member McDade here council member Meer here mayor mullik here council member Jagger here City cister Gillan Schwarz here city manager Dietrick here Deputy manager rigs here all right Council for the special meeting we have one resolution it's 26510 d224 a resolution providing for a meeting not open to the public in accordance with provisions of the New Jersey open public meetings Act njsa 10 call 4-12 this is to discuss the municipal judge position and the shared services agreement to provide uniform construction code Services between the city of K May and burrow of K May point do I have a motion I'll make a motion do I have a second I'll second roll call please council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes depy mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes public portion mayor anyone here wishing to speak on resolution 265 seeing no one here we'll close public comment and go into close session time is 350 okay how's it going [Music] just know this is 100% corre we for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for for e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e for e e for for e that's first e e e for now e they got e for for for e e e e e for e resol so for Lo know think for e e e e for e e see B e e e e e e e e cool thing uh you know the runda of the capital building they have uh what's name the man in Black the singer was his name Johnny catch he's got a statue there he's only position that's always so they had back the cool thing about it was in the metime they got a piece of the Burling wall is part of the pedest stand is that Mr around it's a shame I wake up in the middle of night and i stuff my faceb peanuts you're the guy at the baseball game a big pile of stuff around oh that's awesome that's I wish you saw the old oldb field we had here when I wasid only my finder upstairs and the only one in the county orri so only night games you you were major Le in the fact when the ball comes hitting at you when you're thisy Steve do oh no when did you come back Sunday night everything else oh ni I saw some Tik toks on them just recently seem kind of quiet down there a lot of parking available sep kind of me around they just for that and hey everybody break could come up north that's cool was it really a walk was October the clear and had email from one of our people that man one the table she said I think did you check and see if everyone was okay to add this I'm fine with it okay we're not doing any action we're not adding any of guys don't have we're g to add it I'm okay with adding it he's GNA he's going to e e o good evening everyone we are apologize for the uh time here we coming out of closed session and uh I need a motion to close the closed session I'll make that motion mayor do I have a second I'll second thank you with that we will open it up for our um Regular meeting once I find the uh paper here here we go thank you I got it good evening everyone we have a work session meeting of the city council of the city of Kate may we are here in the Kate May City Hall Auditorium today is Tuesday October 1st 2024 the time is now 510 please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance i al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible Li for all thank you under the open public meetings law notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the Press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council posted on the K May City website and the Kate May City Hall bulletin board notice is hereby provided that K May City Council meetings are audio recorded and or video stream live live video streams are posted the Kate May City website the city of Kate May is not responsible of audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable roll call Deputy Mayor Bowen here council member McDade here council member Meyer here here mayor mullik here council member Jagger here City cicor Gillan Schwarz here city manager Dietrich here Deputy manager rigs here any uh additions and deletions tonight Council I believe we have 279 and this will actually be 278 tonight I apologize 278 okay and do we need one for the nature trails uh for the nature trails and for lafette Street to authorize the bid I I was just going to bring that up in my manager update to get a motion vote for that and to we would do a follow-up resolution since we don't have a prepared document here this evening for that okay so for reference 278 -10 2024 is a resolution authorizing serve pro Kate May services for mold remediation at the Kate May Firehouse do I have a motion I'll make that motion do I have a second I'll second okay roll call do we need roll call on that we do to add I didn't know I think there might be an explanation from do you want an explanation now for the resolution let's do that when we get to it I think okay okay so the motion is to add so council member jger yes council member Meyer yes council member mcde yes Stephanie mayor Balwin yes mayor m yes all right any other additions or deletions anything else Council no employee of the month I have some unfortunate news this evening uh our Employee of the Month um is has some personal situations going on where she could not get here this evening uh you know her husband is is ill and taking care of him so I was not able to so hope at our next meeting we're going to put this back on the agenda and and have her here at that meeting good we wish wish them the best for sure certainly um on to uh updates an old business city city manager thank you um wanted to give a couple updates and I guess the first is so we have the two projects we've had some discussions before and uh Vince or our project engineer was getting ready to finalize all the documents send it over to authorize the bid and uh our Erin or Clark noticed that we Vince and I both thought that we had had prior authorization for Council to got the bid because we presented the projects and we thought we' included it in Prior resolutions after further research it wasn't necessarily formalized as we had had thought that's why Engineers do engineering and clerks do all the clerk stuff so um for that if we could have a a motion vote uh this evening to authorize to go out the bid for those two projects this would be for the nature trail project and uh I'll say the first subpart of the next Lafayette Street Park phase which includes I'll say the the Improvement closest to the elementary school uh the open uh play area the dog park and the Bachi ball court as long as some of the Pavilions that are asso I'll make a motion I'll second that motion and then we'll have a formal resolution at the next meeting just to memorialize this just to um should we have a roll call on that yes please okay um just be before roll call two two quick ones on that we want to thank the county um have they appr has the Commissioners approved the Commissioners we've gotten uh preliminary approval out of uh the uh open space board uh for uh essentially I think 90% funding uh for the nature TR project which was great news um and uh that needs to still be ratified by the uh County Commissioner's Office okay but was that 2 million 1.9 1.9 it was like 1. n97 or something I think almost almost $2 million in funding from County open space so that really is uh wonderful and and we thank the county for that um does that project include the baseball field that includes an open area for where the base Bas field is we're not as we had previously discussed we're not improving the baseball field we're going to probably have like I'll say the where the bases are located at but but there won't be a formal Dugout and infield and stuff like that it'll be an open area but have the bases laid out so that you could go out there and and have a little pickup game but not have the formal structure of a baseball field and then there's also the $500,000 Grant from the D and that's on the park portion is that correct yes okay and I I know one of the things with that is that basically expires by the end of the year I think correct they're looking to have us move on both of those so authorizing this to go to bid is important obviously I have another question sure that open space that could be used for pickup games will that include a back stop I don't think that we were including a fullback stop at that location not saying that we can't add one in a later phase if we feel we need it but it it was not included in a formal back stop we can do it though okay any other questions Council roll call council member yger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor boblin yes mayor mullik yes thank you and just as a reminder for the public uh the the Draft plans of or the plans that of what we've described are up on the city's website uh under the construction projects um and there's been no significant change to those once we have the final documents from the project engineer obviously the the the final plans will be uploaded to the website for uh the full public to see um the next thing I want to bring up the um we're coming to the close uh the bike and pedestrian committee has been working on um the safe Street uh program with updating uh all of our bike and pedestrian and roadway safety improvements and uh we're looking to possibly have um a public hearing on that uh on October 17th uh in the evening if council is okay with that date it was kind of tough to find all the dates that they had selected we had planning board zoning boards we got our special meeting for flood planes so a lot of stuff going on in October and that was kind of the only open date um so I just wanted to if Council was okay with that date um just to have a whole public hearing but the bike and ped committee has been very active in having public meetings almost every other month regarding that project I think that it's I think they have a draft plan all prepared and it's really this is to present the final draft plan to the public beyond the subcommittee meetings that we've been holding do we have a um time on that uh probably 5 o' okay like a 5 to 7 here manager excuse me yeah count yep uh the next item is uh great news from the tax collector's office uh this afternoon all taxes have been paid for the 2023 year so another year where we do not have to have a tax sale um so that's you know great work by our tax collector and and the staff in in that office and you know really a good thank you to all of our residences residents and business owners that you know made sure that we uh collected all the taxes so that we can pay our bills to the county and the schools and and all those kinds of things but we had another year of a 100% collection and on another positive note uh the tax assessor is has closed out there you know they now are closing out their added assessment years coming to almost to an end and a little over $18.7 million of added assessments uh to the tax roles uh will be put on for this year so those a you know just to follow up from last I know last meeting uh we had a lot of positive economic numbers but you know the residents in the city are actively improving their properties uh within the city limits that's all I had for this evening thank you city manager city solicitor I don't have anything tonight mayor thank you any old business city council okay on to discussion we have a discussion on the pocket to place and personto person liquor license number 0502 - 33-6 D4 I don't know good afternoon mayor thank you very much thank you thank you Scot Mr Silver just hit the button there it a little closer thank you good afternoon Scott silver on behalf of of uh Beach Avenue Hospitality this is an application for the place toop place and person-to-person transfer of a plenary retail consumption license that would go to the Peter Shields Inn we uh have had some discussions with the city solicitor and some other folks and our understanding is that uh the license would authorize us to sell out alcoholic beverages indoors um sales and services would be for the uh dining patrons of the Peter shields in as well as the hotel patrons and we would not be selling um or serving alcoholic beverages outdoors with one exception and that would be to continue the practice of special events usually they six seven 8 n a year and it's just when people mostly are getting um married out on the front lawn um we would continue our tradition of fine dining and instead of being just a BYOB establishment we would now have the ability to sell alcoholic beverages to uh dining patrons and to Hotel guests as well that's great um just so I understand the uh format here we we're going to we can ask them questions and and and actually let me get even a little more General obviously we don't have a lot of liquor license transfers in the city of Kate May so I just to remind the Council of exactly what we're doing right now just say so I can lay a little bit of a foundation here for Council and for the public uh this license is a product insurance this license is uh the product of the uh pocket license from the fins bar and restaurant um they're looking to place it at Peter Shields and like every other liquor license application and transfer application we've seen in the last few years at least the ones that I've been involved with with the clerk's office we run it through zoning um there is a vetting process with with the police department the same individuals were involved in this one so there's background checks for uh personto person transfers and then the place to place is run through zoning and we review any conditions or or issues that may pop up there and um there's publication so there's an opportunity for the public to be notified of this um that that there's going to be a hearing on the application and just for the record um I don't believe that we received any uh any letters of objection or anything like that in response correct and only when that occurs are we required by Statute to conduct a hearing so really council could act on this by vote but our practice and I informed Mr Silver of this when they were going through the application process our local process is we typically give more process than is necessary so even if we don't receive objections we recognize that people may not really realize what's going on till they see a council agenda so we'll conduct basically a mini hearing here have the applicant available with their Council to answer any questions that Council may have and that any questions the public may have at the time of consideration of the application this has been vetted by zoning the conditions that are reflected in the proposed resolution included with the agenda packet reflect a back and forth with the applicant conferencing with the zoning officer to confirm a use that is could be consistent and approved at the zoning officer level and not require a trip to the board the applicant has been advised and understands and acknowledges that a use beyond what is uh contained in that resolution would require um a site plan planning board zoning board process whatever board would be applicable and they've been through that before um but this is a a use of the license that would be consistent with a an approval at the zoning officer level which was what the applicant was looking to see what the boundaries of that would be and that's how we ended up before Council today Mr Mayor can I ask a question please uh you FKS you had a liquid license before or at least Peter Shields had had liquid license before so we're basically reverting back to way it used to be ran would that be correct my name's Lenny gagley already by the way um well we would have a liquor license again but we will not have seating at our bar so just be a service bar I'm just my thing is I'm prepared to vote for this I mean I think it's a pretty basic I don't well I I have one question too I you just you stated that your intention is that this would only be for um guest of the Peter shields in either staying overnight or for those who were dining correct um for wedding events or other small events that you might have you don't intend at this time or at any future point in time for the public to come up and um sit outside and be able to have drinks served um well we wouldn't do that unless we brought it before zoning pardon if it was our intention we would bring that before zoning okay so you would come back and put it before Zoning for a site plan review or planning or whatever all right I just want to clarify that that is not your intention and that you understand that in the future if it was okay thank you I I do have one quick question because you did mention special events um is is that a maybe this is a question for Mr Gillan Schwarz is that a special permit or because I don't see that anywhere in the in special conditions is that a permit for special events for maybe like a tent maybe the applicant can comment on how they've handled that in the past I think what we're proposing to do is to have the ability not on a day-to-day basis but only for a booked special event primarily weddings when somebody who is being married wants to have a champagne toast out on the front lawn that's what we're seeking to do not to have general service available on the out and that that the the reason I'm bringing that up is it's not in the special conditions but the applicant was bringing that up so I wanted to make sure that we're clear and it's clarified possibly on the special conditions if we need to have that I think well and also I'm sorry just to add to that and also that if it's going to be served if if it's for the wedding you don't anticipate having any other drinks but a toast well no okay as it stands right now wedding guests are allowed to bring their own liquor for weddings and and we serve them it's rare and almost never that that happens okay but we still want to have the ability still have that no I just think we want to make sure that we're clear on all the conditions for the approval process do we need to add that as far as a special condition I I think it would be wise to do that if if that's the proposal in council's okay with I'm honestly fine with that okay I just wanted to make sure that we're clear all of our special condition with a limitation that says no outdo sales service except in conjunction with it do does say something in here about a cocktail type alcohol but you're looking at champagne wine no no I the special condition in the resolution one of the things discussed is just to confirm that the the sale and service is going to be limited to indoors so that they're not going to they're not going to have a cocktail server or an outdoor bar under this current license structure and they understand if they want to propose something like that they'd have to go to the board for that so what we're talking about is historically it sounds like they've had these special events they're not playing to do that every day um I think Mr Silver me mentioned 8 to 10 or something like that I think historically we've had under well under a dozen sure yeah and I'm not I just I think I know what you're saying where it says cocktail service that would be we will not generally every day have that but if we have a special event then we would be allowed to serve right the guests outside during those special events that's I'm just not sure it's clear in the special conditions do we need to add that is what I'm saying yes okay so I don't know and the discussion really should should F hone in on what council is comfortable with the boundaries of that should be you know I don't know if it usually things like hours of the day and things like that you know no no longer than this hour of the day no no later than 9:00 or whatever it is and maybe Mr gagleard can explain to council how those events typically function and that might serve as a barometer for that yes so typically we have our weddings during the day so it doesn't interfere with our dinner hour so it's it's usually an 11:00 ceremony um maybe a 12:00 cocktail hour and then typically dinner inside till 4: they're usually wrapped up by 4M so that we can prepare for dinner but occasionally we will have some small weddings in in the Peter Shields that may be a 3 to seven but they're typically inside for dinner sure um again it's it's very rare that anybody has anything outside I honestly I can't remember one but I'm sure we've had one where somebody had had a maybe a small bar set up in a cocktail hour outside so just to H in on that if the later stuff is happening inside I don't even think we need to address that because the inside's going to be licensed right but the it sounds like any any special event type of thing on the outdoor sounds like it's going to be limited to no later than 4 p.m. is that fair to say Mr gag I think we prefer 6: p.m. have flexibility yeah for the clean up and those type things yeah but typically we we try to get people out by dinner hour because ultimately that then like you said that goes in runs into your dinner hour right for the restaurant so would you be proposing a six six PM limitation on that to council is that workable for you and is that I mean if that's what's necessary I prefer a little bit later only to have that flexibility of like 9:00 yeah just for flexibility again it's rare um it doesn't get dark till a little bit later in the summer but it's so you're you're having an event and then you envision still having people out there having cocktails after the event I I'm just trying to understand what we're as part of the event I mean as part of the event the events they go inside and they go inside at that point okay so they go let me just put a scenario to you they they they you start the event they go inside they eat they come outside and they want to have cocktails it's now 7 o'clock or you proposing just so we're clear that you would anticipate that maybe you would like to have that available to the guest are you talking about an Afterparty I'm I'm talking about it's still still within the scope of the event but yes you know they were inside eating dinner and now they want to go outside and continue to have some cocktails after the after dinner um no I'm I'm not because anything that we would have that if if it went to the inside it would we would break down everything on the outside and it would just again it would interfere with our our dinner guas okay all right so but you are asking for it to be considered to be later than 6 p.m. I would ask for it yes I don't know that that'll ever happen but it nice to have okay is right right right right the events are primarily weddings but they're always pre-booked well and that could be pre-booked also no I appreciate that Shane I yeah and that's why I say if we I would prefer like if you said 8:00 or 9:00 would be fabulous to have that leeway the cushion is everyone okay with 8 o' just a yeah sure I mean they they would have that ability right now if they were the um renters were bringing their own alcohol in you could do it to 8:00 or 9:00 so um yeah I don't think we should make that too constraining so Mr solicitor do you have a suggestion on special conditions given that conversation um just to provide Clarity to what we're talking about and put some guard rails on it I would I would propose this the applicant proposes to this would just be added towards the end the applicant proposes to continue it historic practice of conducting special events for Life curatory events and proposes limited use of the outdoor Law lawn not to exceed 12 events per year such service may be permitted subject to the limitation that any outdoor service would conclude at 800m I prefer nine if you'll give it to me but this counts okay with 900 P p.m. I would only approve 9:00 if you put some seal restrictions on I would only approve 9 o'clock if we put seasonal restrictions on it because we don't want someone you don't want music and events going on 9 o'cl in January or mean mean if it's a nice day in December you know he's he's right now again he's got the ability to do that you're right Mike he's got the ability to do it if they bring their own alcohol they can do it till 9 o' it and and in this it it talks about live music um being confined to be between uh 12:00 noon and 900 p.m. I'm just saying there could be 900 p.m. being a bit of a consistent number being State time rather consistent with that I agree and historically I think everybody here knows we've never had events that that have become an issue or allow or bans or things like that it's just not we're dealing with someone that already has a history we we understand that yeah so there's none we just don't have any of that try we try to make it more uniform I appreciate that frankly I think we'd all agree that um Peter Shields is a great reputation and um so I it counts for me personally um so Stoll Stoll poll is that where we're at at 9:00 p.m. or 12 with a a number limitation and a time frame limitation is everyone comfortable with that should we have a start time because I don't know it say it's well consistent with the other it's 12 well it's 12 yeah but somebody had said 11 o' early well no I said I said our Ceremonies start at 11: okay and then if they were to have a cocktail hour so 12 till 9: 12 okay so 12:00 noon tonight 12 noon yeah I just think that we should keep it consistent have no earlier than 12: noon and no later than 9:00 p.m. do you want to read us that back one more time yeah proposes to continue its historic practice of conducting special events for Life celebratory events proposes limited use of the outdoor lawn not to exceed 12 events per year such Services service may be permitted subject to the limitation that any outdoor service would be limited to no earlier than 12: noon and later and no later than 900 P p.m. you're okay with that yes okay Council everyone's okay with that okay any other questions other than that Council um I I don't see public comment on the agenda but obviously every resolution would normally have public comments we should open it for public comment okay anyone wishing to speak uh on this resolution and actually let me ask this so s of just as a point of order should we introduce the resolution at this point no we could just discuss it I would just consider this hearing point this is still should Council I'm sorry motion to amend the resolution to add that special condition let's hear from the public I don't think we have to yeah we can that's that's potentially on the table and that's something that public let's hear from the public anyone wishing to speak on this resolution please come to the microphone St your name and address for the record Jules Rouse 1010 New York Avenue just a couple clarifications this is a consumption basically inside does that mean that that someone can uh uh order a drink and take it out to the outside dining or the outside patio area I believe that that that allows that yes it and that is what they do now they they can bring their own liquor and and it outside you're you're you're saying that they can come in and order a drink inside then carry it outside and go down to the the patio area that is correct and I assume that by that you also mean that someone can continue to bring their own alcohol with them and use the outside patio area uh for their own entertainment you mean some you mean a guest I'm sorry a guest like an in guest well a guest that is staying there right could again in addition to consuming alcohol inside they could bring their own and go outside to the patio if permitted by the license holder well is it your proposal to allow that to happen that's the question question yes the in guests will still be allowed to bring their own bring their own whatever as wine and drink it at the uh in the p on the patio like they do now I assume everyone understands my question thank you anyone else wishing to speak please come to the microphone Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue um I just want to make this this is a residential area there are homes right across the street so um I think we have to make sure we're aware of the neighbors right to peace and quiet my question is we're saying there's only so many events but we never got into how many bars are going to be outside is it are they going to be inside are you going to have like three bars outside because I think that makes a difference on um on how it's being served I think that uh we're seeking to have the flexibility to either bring alcoholic beverages from the inside to the outside or to have a portable bar brought outside okay to just like one bar not a couple bars yeah correct the the patio isn't large enough to handle that many people that you would need more than one bar well I didn't know if you're were going to have it on the lawn or where you were having that's my question I was just I wasn't sure where the bar would be located it would be by the patio the new one with the gas yeah it would be on the lawn it would never be more than one bar one small bar Mr gagy would you propose that as a additional condition limiting it to one roll out bar certainly okay anyone else wishing to speak on this resolution seeing none uh we'll close public comment on this resolution council do I have a motion on this res that's where we're at right we need to add it we need to add the last I'll make a motion to uh add those amendments okay thank you including the condition that was just agreed upon by the applicant okay so uh Mr solicitor do you have proposed language for the singular bar yeah everything that I just said before um and then after that just add the licy will be Li will be limited to one roll out bar and you're okay with that yes all right uh do I have a motion to um amend with those amend amendments I'll make that motion do I have a second second roll call council member yger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Stephanie Bayer Balwin yes mayor mull yes do I have a motion on the amended resolution I'll make that motion do I have a second I'll second any questions or comments further Council roll call council member yger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes jeany mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes and I appreciate the flexibility and and again your reputation is is means a lot to me his historically so we know you do a very nice job at the restaurant we appreciate it so thank you have a good evening thank you okay on to ordinances for introduction yes we have 54622 an ordinance amending 434 the city code to establish limits on City recycling collection and require private collection for amounts exceeding those limits do I have a motion I'll make a motion for discussion do I have a second I'll second that I no er uh our superintendent Eric P Eric pinski is here with us do you want to come on up and I know uh our city manager Paul Dietrich wanted to give a little explanation sure so that is right right yes yes okay sorry yeah no no no I was just getting I was just watching the screen behind you as Aon was getting the presentation up very close feel fre to start did you want me to briefly describe what the ordinance says before we went through the pro the presentation or do you want Eric to kind of just to re you because Eric kind of went through a lot of this before but I didn't know if you wanted me to give a little brief synopsis of what we're proposing to do and then that'll kind of put in context what what Eric is is looking to do your recommendation yeah y so obviously you know when we were last year at Council and we were discussing the idea and Eric brought this and this has really been something that we've been discussing at the staff level for almost a year going back and forth little longer a little bit longer uh you know and Eric and his team did a great job you know kind of monitoring different establishments throughout the city uh you know starting in the winter time rolling through spring summer early part of Summer through the height of Summer you to really get a a good gauge so that you know that was one of the things we had the discussion on is hey let's get a good feel for what type of establishments especially on the commercial side how much trash and recycling or recycling are they generating and you know and where do we find that breakpoint so we kind of have the ordinances listed in two sections because we do have a requirement in section 434 uh section 15 for residential dwelling compliance and then uh 43416 commercial establishment uh compliance um and and really the on the residential side this is not to curtail a typical residential property you know if you're a single family property owner you know whether this is your primary residence or you know your vacation second home this is not to regulate the the recycling out of out of those homes it's looking at the the larger um commercial properties whether it's a multif family property some of the uh uh condo converted properties that have four five 100 residential units it's to collect those as as a collection and then obviously the commercial properties uh both of those sections are looking to limit the amount of recycling that's collected to two 96 gallon cans which equates to 192 gallons um as we update the the I'll say the city's rules and regulations there'll be also some stipulations that you know some places put out I'll say bundled cardboard that we'll look at you know uh a volumetric you know dimensional number of what that 192 gallons equates to in I'll say cubic feet uh just so that we have that I have those calculations and we have those so it we'll add that into like our the rule as we update some of our rules and regulations so it makes it a little clearer in understanding but I think uh we can go through this presentation now and kind of get get a feel a better feel for what what uh we Public Works is dealing with on a week by week day-to-day basis so you know here's here's a prime example the so for instance the that bottom right hand pitcher it's hard to gauge that one CU L we're luckily enough that all those businesses along that stretch put it all in one location for us so it's not all over the prominade but you know the other the other ones are like Prime examples that you know nothing's bundled or tied so windy day all that stuff's all over the street so you know this is to a lot for to give somebody example for what 96 gallons of cardboard looks like you're looking at 48 in by 36 in by 28 in high that's a 96 gallon can of cardboard so you know the bottom leftand pitcher you know that's pretty much filling a truck up so the truck will have to fill go dump then come right back out to the route can I can I ask a quick question are all four of these pictures uh commercial properties okay thank you yeah here in the city taking this the season yes so these are all commercial these these are all commercial examples if you go to the to the next again I mean we have you know we we dedicated our streets to be beautiful I mean that's that's an ni of my my opinion it's an eyesore it's blown all over the place again this is another commercial spot and and this is one you can go back that that's one that's not two pictures of two different locations that's one location that's one location if you kind of pick that up I I believe it's continuation continuation of that same pile you can kind of see the cardboard boxes or the same cor I just wanted to if it if you didn't if you kind of Zoom by real quick you might think that that was two different examples but that was one location yes one location you know here's like another example now luckily it's all bundled and tied up nice and neat but again picture picture that picture that pile and then pulling the truck up next to it that is physically filling a 20 yard dumb truck well recycle truck up and Eric I don't want to interrupt I had the opportunity to go out U with Eric and Mariah and do a ride around for about two hours on a windy day and many of these boxes were in the street um blocking traffic and required Eric to get out and get them onto the side um you know the other part of this is it's just a visual um you're driving down the street you're coming into beautiful Victorian Kate May uh and the third point is this screams to me safety and workers comp because that means somebody's getting out of the truck and needs to load all of this in um that means bending over to do so because there's no other means for them to do so so those were really the things that I took away from it and what Eric and I discussed and to further what you just said no commercial recycling company would accept something like this they're you have to put it all in a big dumpster then one person driving that truck is going to lift that dumpster corre and put it in that one person correct you know I mean they wouldn't accept a big bundle of junk at the curb no they wouldn't pick it up they wouldn't pick it up right and and one of the reasons of course is the the labor the Manpower and yes the injuries that could could potentially happen correct and you know going back to the other picture that we had up like right there so right there besides the safety part of you know workman's comp and the I guess the cleanliness that's a a sidewalk for somebody to walk on right how they walk on that sidewalk I I just reiterate there's no commercial recycling company that you would hire that would pick that up not even picking up all those cans as well right those cans will be all on a dumpster and and how and how that is solved when you do it on the commercial they they have multiple pickups so when you have that much volume you might have twice a week or three times a week collection and and that's part of operating a commercial business not an obligation for the city to collect as part of its uh process that and that's that's really what we're making the why we're making that recommendation is that distinction between this those two so you know again here's here's going back to the next picture Aaron I'm sorry there's there's one of the main stops that you know councilwoman dat in my had to like I had to fix hop out of the car cuz half of that was actually on the other side of the cans in the street and we had to stop and pick it up and put it to the side you know the right hand side you're looking at the right hand side you got what 3 6 9 12 probably about 14 cans of you know 48 gallon cans 32 even if you say they're 32 gallon cans you know there's 14 cans there and I can tell you each one of them cans probably weigh about 200 pounds and those cans those cans cannot be lift with the one Tipper truck the that has the one that takes the toter that would have to be tipped by the other truck that we have which is a universal Tipper that grabs all the can that grabs has every can there's another spot that we cleaned up in the street so you know again like uh city manager dri was saying was we're looking to do all properties would be allowed two 96 gallon cans or 192 gallons total pickup again we're not saying you have to have 2 96 gallon cans it could be you know 192 cans totaled in cans and cardboard um like I said um 48x 36 x 28 in he is a little more than 12 cubic feet you know the real measure was like 462 by so I just rounded up to make the an even an even number so you know a 96 gallon to you think about you know 4 foot by 3 foot wide 28 in high you know is basically that can laying on its side so um that's pretty much you know that that can right there is a 48 gallon can to be honest um cuz the 96 have the metal bar in it so and if you go to next slide again we're not saying everybody has to have the toor cans you know a nice closed bin you know like all the cans must have a secure lid so we don't have you know that one stop had 14 cans out with no Lids on them they tip over that's a that's a mess yeah on and on a windy day you know these are you know I know that um in some neighborhoods it's all over the street or all over the the neighbor's property um so so this is like I said example of cans that you know are acceptable like you know again we'll we'll accept any can that that you put out as long as it's got a lid on it you know and because there are some you know people elderly residents sometimes can't do the tra the bigger trash can but certainly a small tote with a lid from Walmart or something so and again we're looking to have all cardboard must be must be contained bundled or tied what about if it's in the can itself I thought we had mix recycling so we do have mix so if they put the if they put it in the can it's fine it's it's it's contained doesn't blow yeah it doesn't blow away so like if you go back to that big section of that big that big one like that I would consider that bundled and tied up you know like if you go forward now Aaron I'm sorry like that I would say is not bundled and tied up yeah and not in a can and not in a can but but a large just like as Mr Meers said to be clear a large majority of the folks are already doing this they simply put their paper products cardboard in with their recycling can and just like I do with you know aluminum cans and right right can I ask a few questions mayor oh yeah please sorry um I I fully get it the commercial absolutely um the area that I'm a little bit concerned with is the residential and I guess correct me if I'm wrong the residential is under 43415 and it talks about the weekly alloca allocation will be provided on a per property basis not a per unit basis so if you have a multi-unit building um they're not going to be combined so let's say you have a 5unit building they still just get two 96 gallon cans right okay my concern with I have a few concerns with that um because if it's going to be intermittent you have your you know your people going around picking things up if they exceed that two per then you know every once in a while they do here and there we're going to end up with trash all over the city that's my first thing but then even more so to that I take a look at some of these like the lamp lighter um you know they're all residential people that live down there um I think there's like eight units there um you know you also take a look at even even like a quad that's considered a multi- no actually the quads because they're individually owned properties they're not a condo each one of the lamplighters is individually no but but that's a condo association so therefore they have an association that groups them together as one I don't know if I'm comfortable with though doing that to residents like that well you know to go along with what you're saying across the street from lamp lighter is is the large building oh no that's say the large house that's broken up into apartments right I mean where do we fit into Coast Guard base in this these are year round residents and Coast Guard gets picked up separate we don't pick up a coast guard correct correct and and the other thing that we also have to remember is we have a recycling center at the public works yard so as people you know like you said on the occasion if hey most most of the weeks they comply they're putting out two containers and they're fine hey that one weekend they got a you they have a little birthday party so they have that extra can that's one reason why you know we made sure that all of the days would be open at the recycling center so that you can bring that recycling up to the recycling center and dispose of it at at at at at that at your convenience and and there there is a handful of businesses that that already we don't even pick up their cans out on the street they up they bring them up themselves so Eric say a week after Christmas and everybody's uh recycling is on the street okay and a hous hold has three 96 gallon cans or the equivalent to because they have so many boxes and etc etc are your is your staff going to pick up two of those three cans or to say you have too much I'm just going to keep driving by well the the ordinance would say we were you're allowed two cans so I would instruct them all over the city I would I think if I think if you're if you're talking if if you're saying a single family residence the week after Christmas has that extra can out there I think that we're going to probably say hey discretionally discretionally we're going to pick that up I think that the intent was to look at the the ones that the larger homes that have multiple units in them that you know if it's a multiple unit whether it's operating as whether it's a getting their mertile license because they have short-term rentals in there so they have a larger volume or all those different aspects of why you have that but I think we can all you know I think if if if you I think if you all look at what you're you normally put out for recycling on a weekly basis personally I mean I mean I have my own I have a rental place at my place and then during the summer at most I'm putting out three 40 gallon cans and I have two units putting out and I'm only putting out three 45 gallons so that's you know you we're talking about this ordinance it says 296 or 245s you know you know you really would have to have you know you're probably looking at three units or more and at that point that's a commercial multif family establishment that you should that we should be regulating as a commercial operation and it's it's got to be handled SE differently because of the the pure volume if they want to get a if they want to work at you know if we want to look at doing something they want to get a dumpster and and have dumpster because that's what usually happens on multif family larger multif Family Properties they end up having dumpsters to to pick up because they realize that it's just too big to put out that many cans out to the curbside you also have to look at this the public perception you know look at those pictures during the summer do we want to see that much container yeah I don't along the roads but again that's why I asked it was it commercial and all all of that was commercial yeah so I but I think we could you know but I think that same issue is if a multif family property at that point is acting like a commercial business and needs to be treated like that and they could could that are not multif family is there legal you could put the there's some definitely some arbitrary I don't think unreasonable but there's arbitrary line drawing here so but one of the things to address the deputy mayor's point is you could the distinction from those photos to me looks like the distinction between residential and Commercial recycling the the volume that's generated now if you get a 80 unit condominium complex it's going to start to look more commercial but what if it's under I'm say let's let's do a cap one that's what I'm saying and is is there a sweet spot or at least the idea of a sweet spot between maybe it's two units to eight units and then maybe you get two more cans it's not you get everything and you fill up the the curb but maybe you get an additional two cans to to at least capture some of the more residential like properties and still keep them distinct from the commercial pickup so Eric would you uh team be able to manage you know having an inventory if we were to say that residential falls into that this window and identifying those properties that fall between you know two to eight units but no more absolutely okay all right I think the way Chris described it to make sure if we're putting something in as a condition that we're if we're putting something in is a condition that he's able to execute on it I think I think if if you look how if you look at B1 and how it's written the last second sance it says for for example the allocation of multi-unit buildings multi-unit dwellings condos or commercial properties will not be multiplied by the number of units at a particular property for any amounts generated in excess of these limits these properties were responsible we could add a exception in there and say that if you are a multiple unit property within that range you will receive an additional maybe two additional cans so almost doubling that so I think that would be putting in the number of creating a number of units you know to to say hey you're going to go up to whether it's four or five units of you know of a property because and maybe it's excluding those mixed to use buildings too it's it's really the purely multi-unit residential proper correct of a certain unit you know limit so I don't know if it's eight or but it's definitely two it's two to whatever Council thinks is appropriate I think eight is a good a a good number I I think we need to I where where my where my brain's going right now is thinking that we just do the commercial now and then we really because I know you gave us a great breakout um Eric you know where some of those um multi-units were in that um in the collection days and I have that we but we have a lot of the bigger I could simplify this even further I think okay if if we just say that if it's multi-unit of any of any unit amount which if you're an 80 unit condominium you may get four cans instead of two I mean is that going to break I don't know if we want to do like an 80 unit condominium yeah but but if they can put out if I think what Chris is saying is if we say hey if your multi-unit will pick up four cans no essentially will will if you're multi family residential property will double your normal allocation so instead of it being at 2 96 gallons you get 496 I think that's what Chris right and then we avoid having if you have a three unit a six unit or a 10 unit if you have a 10un property and you're and you're only put out on average four cans we'll pick you up but if you start routinely saying hey every week I'm putting out eight cans sorry we're not you're now I think it simplifies it because then it becomes it's at their dis discretion to figure out whether or not they fit the threshold or not so what's the starting point but then but then we yeah we also need to have a caveat in here like they you know if they've exceeded that quota for two months then they're going to be notified and they have to then get that that'll be in the rules and regulations that that'll be the the ordinance will have the stipulation and then but then if you're saying you're not going to pick up additional you know recycling then we're going to end up with trash no what happens is that no sorry the drivers notify Mariah figured out the whole process that day they call and let her know that they have somebody who's left it out on the street more than the aot of units and then she follows up as the recyclable we're going to pick it we're going to pick it up that time we're not we're going to pick it up that time we're not going to leave a stranded on on the side of the road like at that point you know the truck will you know reach into the office to Mariah who's our recycle coordinator they she'll send them a letter saying hey you exceeded your your allotment we picked you up this time but you have to either confine with the ordinance or make other arrangements for pickup and we going forward and we'll give them time you know mean it's like maybe if it's not the next pickup but we'll say hey as of you know like if it's on we're October 1st yeah by the collection on October 15th I I would I would say I'll be I be we'd be comfortable doing a 30-day window for that like to give a 30-day notice like you had to comply within the 30 days you guys know what you're seeing but but we don't need to you know that Nuance of how that happens that can be within our rules and regulations as you know that that Eric can manage sure how he manages the department this is the Nuance of what is the what's the allotment what's the limit okay any other questions my question I said before though we said you know if we want to increase the amount of uh recycling containers where do we start at three units four units well we're not going to we're just okay I'm sorry yeah if you're multif family in other words it's 296 gallons but if you have a multif family so that's meaning if you have a duplex or greater or greater that's where you'll start okay fine with that so that's it's a multif family anything it's just being introduced tonight so right it's time to take a look at it and think yeah so is everyone in agreement on that residential multi-unit um CH you know amendment to this I can propose some language to could you propose that it would just be in B1 after the first sentence with the 296 gallon 192 gallons it would say multi-unit Residential Properties are permitted no more than 4 96 gallon cans or up to 384 gallons total for City collection per week correct and again that would exclude Comm the commercial properties and mixed use properties would still be under the 96 the 29 resal the allotment of all other properties are subject to the original language okay so do I have a motion on the amendment to the ordinance I'll make a motion on the amendment do I have a second second questions or comments roll call council member Yer yes council member Meer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Balin yes mayor mullik yes do I have a motion on the amended ordinance I'll make the motion and I'll second before we jump into that and not to over complicate this anymore but one other discussion item that I think uh counc woman McDade and I discussed Wildwood has this example of increasing their pickups at the end into the boardwalks in the summer so they require two pickups per week um Eric has had something that Council maybe want to may want to consider in certain areas of town here are you prepared to discuss that or you want to think about I know we we tried that in the in the past and we had a lot of push back and this is going back to Joe Bard's time um when we used to pick up the mall we used to pick up the mall on Mondays and then on Thursdays and we have we got pushed back from a lot of other businesses well how come the mall gets two pickups we don't get to pickups so they stopped it okay because of that reason so you think requiring putting a cap on the city's pickup public pickup of the pictures we were showing is going to have the effect of corralling some of the collection sites so I know W I know Wildwood like what you're referring to Wildwood has different spots along the boardwalk I believe I'm not 100% sure exactly what streets but I know on Oak Avenue they have a cardboard compactor right there at the end of the boardwalk all the businesses in that block take it to the compactor and then they have it so on so on again you know use in Wildwood as an example this is where I came up with with all this you know if in Wildwood would if they exceeded the limits they had to hire a contractor to pick up the pick up on property right not curbside so you know so I I think U Mr Gillan Schwarz I think we would have a lot of the properties saying asking for everyone would want twice a week pickup to get out of having to go to a commercial um contractor perhaps um I I think I was more pointing not not to the city picking up but if the the amount of trash that's or recycling that's generated in certain areas of town requires more collection from the commercial vendors yeah for anybody that's generating so that's just volume on the street that's just volume coming into the city and and putting it out twice a week as opposed to yeah well I think I think any anybody that puts collection out has to be collected that dat like so if they're if they're putting it out in their private hauler is going to come on a on a Tuesday they've got to collect it on that Tuesday and if it's still sitting out because they didn't pick it all up then you know we just have to make sure our code enforcement is I I think what Mr Gillan Schwarz is suggesting is that they're going to put out what they have from the weekend for Tuesday and then they may have make arrangements for a Friday pickup again correct and there there is a couple businesses around that do that already I I don't yeah I mean I and one of one of those businesses up on the prominade and I think that's what it's referring to because I know a lot of the times when there's events going on in the prominade they got a pile of card cardboard and cans out right in the loading zone I don't see why I mean if you have a commercial contract as a commercial owner business owner if you wanted to make that Arrangement and you had a vendor that was willing to do it as long as you were conforming with when you were putting it out it's not like it goes out on Tuesday and it just sits out there so I mean I think that if the you know business was able to make that Arrangement and feels that that suits their business volume and their needs to be able to keep it going they probably don't have any place to store that much anyway which may be why some of it looks the way it looks so I wouldn't have a problem with allowing them to make that discretion um decision and I'm not looking to propose more government regulation we not as required either but just just a it sounds like maybe just the dividing line between Private Collection may have its own impact on on some of the things out there too yeah well I mean obviously it's going to be more traffic coming in and there's going to be more volume out consistently through the week we've we've talked about that but at least it would probably look better managed than it does currently so I mean I think I'd be okay with that I a quick question um in the yard that you have are businesses allowed to come and yes okay yep okay they don't have they don't have a sticker or anything like that and there's no limit on that nope I like I said I have I have at least a half dozen I can name our off top of the head that comes in with pickup trucks full like uh the one photo to me looked like a lot of furniture or something it was like all the same boxes you know from looked like maybe outside of a hotel or whatever I've multiple times pulled my pickup truck in which you can usually get a lot closer than the curb filled it up brought it right down to you know five minutes to canning House Lane last time I he I asked for Council to give the approval to open the recycle yard on Wednesday because as of next month it usually closes on Wednesdays yeah so you know that's great I'm there probably twice a week so it's it's it's it's a nice feature to have for the resident and Commercial businesses to you know have the access to you know the yard on Wednesdays okay any uh we have a we have a motion in a second on the amended ordinance any other questions Council roll call council member yger yes council member Meyer yes council member mcdde yes Deputy Mayor bin yes mayor MK yes thank you Eric goes without saying but we appreciate all the hard work thank you okay on to what are we on to sorry we have ordinances for second reading and consideration for adoption thank you um we have ordinance 543-2020 ordinance amending chapter 310 of the code of the city of Kate May regarding licensing fees do I have a motion I'll make a motion do I have a second I'll second and um there is a public hearing tonight and I actually have a question based off of the action that Council just took um in this ordinance we identified trash haulers as needing mertile licenses should we now include trash and recycling haulers wouldn't that be one and is that substantial resitting hairs is it because somebody's going to say well I recycling not trash they one in the same I don't think there's one that doesn't do the other so I there's already plenty of recycling haulers in Cap May yeah they're the same people same we I'm fine with the uh clarification to that only because I know somebody's going to tell me that says trash I do recycling well I if you ask me they're not exempt so I that I think we can just update that to to confirm that that was council's intent okay perfect thank you uh where would we update that number 27 number 27 on page three the last one on the lists trash and recycling haulers yes I mean yeah fine or waste tomato tomato no one says tomato time I say okay we have a motion do we have a motion a second we open it up to public comment part pardon me on ordinance 543 2024 is anyone here wishing to speak on that Mr Rous Jules Rous 1010 New York Avenue I'd like to make a suggestion on number 11 where you talk to uh actually 11 and 12 that you add to that a compliance inspection by July 1st of each year uh this is a fee ordinance not to show that compliance and we regularly do compliance inspections so you wouldn't put that kind of stipulation in in a fee ordinance to require the City to go do an inspection okay my my suggestion is that it be added somewhere within the ordinance structure that that actually calls for a uh an inspection an account of the actual seating on July no later than July 1 of each year I think I've reported that we do do it but code does complete them I agree with you but I I ALS also agree it probably shouldn't be in the fee ordinance um I don't if anyone else wants to comment agree it shouldn't it's it's not uh relevant for this it's more yeah it's process operations and operations I don't know if there's an ordinance U Mr Gillan Schwarz that is anywhere in that realm I mean I'm sure we could find a place but it's not it's kind of outside of it's outside of this discussion I think your points taken Mr Rous and and the manager indicates that those are being done okay thank you thank you Mr Rous anyone else wishing to speak on ordinance 543 seeing this one yeah thank thank you oh thank you because that addresses what both 543 and 544 so uncomfortable thank you for your work okay so uh we have we close public comment we have a motion in a second any questions or comments Council okay roll call are we motioning to amend to add recycling no we're not we're not including we're just doing that yeah okay yeah well then in that case council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member mcdde yes depy mayor bobwin yes mayor mullik yes next we have 544 d202 or ordinance amending chapter 211 of the code of the city of Kate May regarding development fees do I have a motion I'll make the motion do I have a second I'll second okay we have a uh public hearing anyone wishing to speak on 5:44 please come to the microphone state your name and address anyone here wishing to speak on 544 seeing none we can close public comment any questions or comments Council no the only comment um I'll make is um we did present this as request it um from I think a meeting U two meetings ago um and um Mr Crowley U presented it to the committee and I Dennis did a really nice job um in laying it out and commended the city manager for undertaking the exercise um and said that it was very much in the spirit of what MTR would have done if they had undertaken it themselves so very pleased U I think MTR was very pleased with the fact that this was um clearly a an exercise that was showing progress in reviewing fees um and being done in a very objective manner thank you any anyone else okay roll call council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes finally we have 545 d224 an ordin an ordinance amending chapter 7 of the code of the City Gate May regarding driveway line striping do I have a motion I'll make the motion do I have a second a second we have a public hearing on this anyone wishing to speak on 554 please come to the microphone anyone wishing to speak on 545 did I just say the wrong number before you did but okay five ordinance 545 this is on line striping driveways seeing none we can close public comment any questions or comments Council I just noticed that the uh the yellow stripe or painting in the photographs that Eric employees did look pretty good I agree there uh roll call council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor bwin yes mayor mik yes right next we have the public portion on the resolutions only anyone wishing to speak on resolutions this evening please come to the microphone state your name and address for the record Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue uh my first question is on resolution 268 d10 uh it's for sidewalk and curb insulation on alar street I'm just looking to see where that is located for that sidewalk and curbing it was the last um about 150 ft from uh like from the West Cape May bridge to you know coming into town cap Isen Creek Bridge K why I'm saying is it wasn't Ling City Electric doing that no they their responsibility was for the sidewalk was only in front of their property so the rest of it was City you know City actually owns that property so they're we did that in front of City owned property so it's on that side though correct or is it on the other side no it's on the same side as the substation but they don't own all the way the Lan electric does not own all the way up to the bridge so they they just did the sidewalk in front of their property and we just were going to complete the rest of it thank you you're welcome and then my other question has to do with the resolution 269 reconstruction or yeah of Franklin Street is this just from Washington to Lafayette yes and are are they redoing the curbing there or is that curbing I think it was already done wasn't it no it wasn't there'll be replacing some of the curbing putting in Brick gutters brick sidewalks and resurfacing roads I knew there was in front of an nitrious house that she was keeping her Stone yeah wherever there's Granite you know slate uh curbing that would remain yes okay now are we going to be doing this before we finish with the am church because to me if it's still in a construction we don't really want to be doing sidewalks until that's that'll be it'll be coordinated with that the work is moving along enough with the church that we'll be able to coordinate that work okay so I don't want to you know I know a lot of times with zoning they require that after construction is completed we'll be able to coordinate that work but to your point uh you know underground utilities and things like that were replaced before this past um Paving that was just done so you should not see some patch out front out front of am church or something like that okay so this is more for the sidewalks not so much the road yeah roads will get resurfaced because that that Paving before was just a I'll say temporary Paving to get us through the summer so that okay my other uh question has to do with the anti-scalant bid services and I was looking at the bids that went out for it I guess I wasn't sure when there's an X does that mean that they are from that country or they're not from that country is why I'm saying that the scal and they're saying Russia was one of the things and I didn't know if this anti-scalant was coming from Russia and China no it's not that's that's a certification that they show that they aren't buying supplies or it's not supplied from Russia or Iran it's it has an X I wasn't sure if that included It or Not Included it that's that's part of their requirements to show that they're not okay thank you you're welcome uh my next question has to do with resolution 275 the bid for boat recovery is this for a boat that's there now or in the future so this is just like we we got the bid for to have tow truck services on call um obviously we we saw the issues that we had with the the latest boat that was abandoned and was sinking and we had to scramble this is we're going out to you know this would allow us to have that those Services pre set up and established for costs and everything so that when that emergency arises in the future because I'm sure it will that if we need to remove a boat from the harbor we're in a place to have a cost established to do that okay because I was asking I was talking to a boat recovery person I don't want to get names and they had no idea about this so I just was wondering if we're going to reach out to these companies that do that that this is available they don't usually this is the first step I know but I'm just saying they don't usually look at this we we'll reach out to places to make sure and how because each boat is different on how it's and the size is this going to be based on the size of the boat with with them it has it has size in there okay Towing per foot okay cuz that wasn't we didn't see the if you the bid that's why I was just asking this question it's in the specifications okay and then my second my last question has to do with 276 the change order to the Allen uh the Amy church and that's very extensive it's uh almost $200,000 with a high percentage or is it yeah change of $196,000 increase to the bid and I guess I'm concerned about the there's a lot of changes going on inside and that council's not improving these changes they're already approving the change order that's what that's that's what council you Council that's what this does is Council approves the change work okay so my question is first is the location of the bathroom they need a larger hot water heater are we expanding the bathroom in there no it's because we needed to relocate because of the arrangement of before the bathrooms were side to side but as we started to look at the framing we were going to have interruptions with some of the uh side uh stained glass windows so in order to rearrange it so that we did not have interruptions with the stained glass windows uh we needed to rearrange the locations to put them instead of the bathrooms being back to back they had to be moved apart so that necessitated several of the changes of you know that required instead of having one hot water here we're having kind of two insta Hots to serve each bathroom it required more Plumbing electrical service and H it messed up the location of the H so most of those change order requirements stem from moving the location of the bathroom I guess I I understand where you're coming from but it says you're putting a new loadbearing wall in the center and I guess if the church itself is already open I don't understand the need for a loadbearing wall for a bathroom Expansion change that that one's probably in regard to the um flexible seating um the one of the things that they looked at as they were doing this was look any old historic property you're going to have things that come up in the in the um building of it but they wanted to put I don't know how many more peers under six Piers six so it's going to have a second floor inside then for seating like a tier seating um it's going to have a balcony kind of similar to like Kate May stage and is this something new that they're adding to this no before that balcony continued with built-in seating um but we really wanted to have more flexibility with the seating so like the convention hall seats that fold fold back into the wall these seats will fold fold back into the wall so that we can have yoga classes or and you know if we're gonna uh have um a museum um you know pieces or something you know a gallery or you know there going to be have like like metal seatings in there then I guess yes that fold back into the much like convention hall so convention hall seating in in the historic church yeah um and then my my last question has to do with the Amy Church it says the change of decking does that mean your do composite decking instead of the wood the the original plans like on the Ada ramp called for um just pressure treated and we missed that when we were putting out the bid so we asked them to change that to you know mahogany you know an appropriate decking just to make it look more appropriate than just to have a treated lumber okay so this um the beam was not considered there before because I don't I guess my concern is if these seats come out and go back in I don't understand the need for a new support beam going inside the church when they're spread out the load is spread out when they're all stacked up in one location sitting on top of each other that puts more load at a concentrated point that you need to struct down I thought the support beam was going up you're saying it's going this this is all in the this is all this is all on the floor this is all on the floor okay I thought it was going up the FL no all this work is in the floor okay thank you anyone else on resolutions this evening just a quick question uh dealing with the 276 and 277 sorry could you say your name Jes 1010 New York Avenue um there's there there's a bill 08903 for 213,000 is that is that the first draw on I called for for a demo is this the bill for the Amy church for that's their first draw yes welcome where is that that's both 08903 you said it's both 08903 okay well there's there's two items there's there right dkc had a project at the Welcome Center for I think $166,000 and then and then there's a a bill for the am Church 2 right 213 that's for both but that that that is the the as part of the uh the original contract yes a first draw and that's the first draw that's the on the original contract yes anyone else on resolutions this evening seeing none we'll close public comment on resolutions council do we have a motion on the consent or I'm sorry does anyone wish to uh remove anything from the consent agenda I'd like to remove 268 please anything else Council city clerk roll call sure and we have a motion to accept the consent agenda do I have a motion I'll make that motion do I have a second I'll second council member yger yes council member Meyer yes council member mcde yes jeffanie mayor bobwin yes mayor mullik yes and I just uh I point out 269 which is the resolution awarding uh the Franklin Street reconstruction uh I think that's really going to be a beautiful um upgrade um that is the brick um guttering you see when you go out on Washington Street outside here you may notice that the the guttering is where the curb you know the road meets the curb you know obviously where you have you know storm drained flow um so that now will go around Franklin Street on both sides brick sidewalks a brick um crosswalk you know from the library to the other side of the street um gas lights I mean it really is a beautiful upgrade to Franklin Street you know especially around the am Church the library I think it'll really look nice um so I just want to thank everybody for all their work on that on to uh resolution 2 yes 268 sorry 26810 2024 resolution authorizing approval of a required disclosure award to Arthur R Henry Inc for sidewalk and curb installation do I have a motion I'll make that motion do I have a second I'll second any questions or comments I like to tell a story if I may may sure um so 10 years ago was my third time running for office in the city of Kate May and one of the largest things I was running on was when I put on Facebook was a mother pushing a a stroller with her kids along the side on Almy Street she was heading into town as you know the Road bends it's kind of a blind turn where you but when you get to the bridge area uh and so that was my third time running I felt I was going to win that time and I think some of the administration might have felt the same way so exactly 10 years ago before I was elected the city manager the city engineer and the mayor at the time had quickly put the sidewalk in on the northeast side of that area so if you don't remember sidewalks on entirely the entire Road of Alm Street West Kate May and Kate May stopped at uh Venice Avenue and so you know I didn't get chance to you know Relish in the success of that one side because it was done before I was even elected in spite of me being elected and uh which was great you know the success of that that side of the road was awesome uh we've seen reconstruction of the buildings on that side of the road the improvements of that street is unbelievable and then thankfully West Cape May you know did their duty to to fulfill their side of uh Cape Island Creek of that elmire street um years went on AC electric wanted to increase his sub station so it was always in limbo whether we're going to have a sidewalk and I just want to you know give a real personal thanks to uh Zach mullik because the countless or the countless tedious meetings that he's been through with AC electric making sure that we get what we deserve and and you know with talking to him privately he said whether it was a substation or a private house there we'd make them put a sidewalk there anyway and I appreciate you fighting so hard for that over the years and you know and to get almost 100% of what we wanted it done it was still going to be that that little section that this resolution is about and uh you said to the manager you know they're going to be here let's just let's get it done all at the same time you know what's it going to take and uh the success of that is is overwhelming and the people are so excited about the fact that they don't have to walk in the road ever again and I think it's a big success and unfortunately it's again 10,000 or 10 years to the date since that that project was started so you know we're going to have some safer people walking in our town so I just want to thank you I want to thank the manager and everybody else here over the last 10 years that fought hard and Ronnie Ronnie towns from the L City Electric y because you know every time I was at a league of municipalities uh dinner she had here and uh and it was not uh you know it was expected from me so well thank you Mr Meer and thank you for all your hard work and persistence on it I mean it's you think these things are small but it takes so much working just so people know we had one of the last hurdles was we had to go through a d application because that's Wetlands clo close by there so we did get Atlantic City Electric to at least make the D application they got the uh you know approved obviously from their D application and just the note too for pedestrians and bike riders um That Sidewalk does curl around and go down right to to down Venice and Bank Street so that's a whole new sidewalk on Venice as well and um the paving will start this sometime in October I'm not sure if we have exact date but the paving will go from the bridge to Venice down Venice to bank so that'll be a nice New Street as well so really uh with with some um um bicycle you know share of the road reminders so it's all good stuff but thank you Mr Meer ready for roll call council do we have do we have a motion we had a motion in a second roll call council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes all right so moving on to 27810 2024 a resolution authorizing serve pro May services for mold remediation at the K May Firehouse do I have a motion I'll make that motion mayor do I have a second second uh Mr city manager could you give us a quick quick explanation yes so during the summer um we had some condensate leaks throughout the building the the mechanical subcontractor came in and was worked with the our architect to to try to determine what the problem the cause of the problem and and uh we were attempting to work with and and he came in Fairly responsively and worked to correct the issues so that we didn't have any more uh problems throughout the rest of the summer or or I'll say the latter stages of the summer and when it came back to trying to get the the prime contractor Dall to uh follow through and make the final remediation steps and cleanup steps uh we worked with the architect uh our missile solicitor Chris Killin Schwarz on process and went through different notifications on giving them notice of hey we think there's a problem hey we need you to get out here if you don't get out here we're going to go get to get it tested no response we went out and got it tested we said okay now you got to fix the problem no response um so here we having an emergency resolution to correct the response where we've you know the the subcontractor did their due diligence to you know to work through this but you know we're at a spot where we need to you know move forward to get this cleaned up and um you know we've done the proper notification so that we can do this as you know we still have not fully paid the contractor because we're still waiting for closeout documents so you know this is obviously still under their watching care and so we'll be you know charging this against what we you know this will be a a negative change order so to speak to the contract to reimburse the city we're going to probably have to have a followup for this one because this is to remediate the issue the next thing we'll have to be is to put the sheetrock back on the walls or anything that we can't clean and remediate back together um we'll do the same notifications back to the contractor and uh we may have to come back to amend this resolution with the secondary resolution because we're anticipating that the contractors not going to follow suit to fulfill his obligations to the city but we've been working diligently trying to not have to come to this situation I you know I in my almost 30-year career professionally of working with contractors and doing projects this is only the second time that I've had to really go back against a contractor and it's you know so it's not something you do every day not something that you want to do not something that you you take life but you know they have contractual obligations and responsibilities to provide a service and a product to the city and they haven't lived up to that fulfilling that final end so this is kind of where we're at okay if that any questions or comments Council I think what's most important is this is going to come out of their bill not ours so and we're going to get it fixed and you know and I I do apologize you know I you know for not communicating some of the steps along the way to to to the full Council um cuz you know at every little step I thought you know because we were getting movement from the contract subcontractor and I thought we were going to have the resolution at the end but it's like every time you think you have Wishful hope full like the contractor is really going to step up and do what they're responsible to do so for that I you know I apolog you know apologize for the short notice I only notify Council I know probably less than two hours before the meeting started regarding this and this is just kind of at the last minute unfortunate so I do apologize for that any other questions or comments Council roll call council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor bwin yes mayor mullik yes okay on to new business city solicitor any new business nothing tonight mayor thank you city manager um just two things things first uh just as a reminder o October 22nd uh we are going to hold a uh special presentation regarding uh flood the the Jersey pack rules and also flood insurance promotion at convention hall 5 to 7 um this affects everyone affects everyone in the city affects everyone in the county um you know these proposed rules flood insurance is important I mean you know obviously the devastation that we're seeing through a lot of our Southern States right now of that hurricane you know you're going to see you know a lot of those people that are being devastated right now they're not in flood Hazard zone so this is kind of part of what we you know we're talking about but the regulation you know and I think you know you may see some pundits go out and say hey this is why we're doing this you know the the flooding that you're seeing through Tennesse and North Carolina you know that's a riverine flooding much different type of flooding than we have here in our Coastal communities we have coastal flooding you we have identified risk but in a lot of communities where riverine flooding even here in New Jersey it's not mapped it's not regulated to the extent that that our flood regime is understood regulated and and modeled so um that's one reason why we talk and you know have to talk about these regulations um so that's on the 22nd so I hope everybody can attend it's not still too late to make public comment uh all the official open public comments period over but people can still write in uh official comments uh as needed um and and just as a a sidebar to that uh earlier uh this week I had um correspondents from um our the National Association for flood plan managers and they talked about back in um earlier in April of this year that HUD adopted a a a final rule on um they called flood risk Federal flood risk management standards and uh they're going to be looking for any projects or anyone wishing to get a mortgage through the um the federal housing Administration uh will have to be in a community that has at least two feet of freeboard as part of their special flood Hazard zone so if somebody's looking to get a mortgage that is back through the FHA so you're really looking at your first-time home buyers some of your moderate income home buyers that might be trying to use FHA or the 203K program uh to to receive a Federal Mortgage if they're looking to get and guarantee a mortgage that is in a special flood Hazard area and if that Community does not have at least 2 feet of free board as part of their that meanings that you have to build at least 2 feet above the the the base flood elevation you may not be able to get a an FHA mortgage for that home now good news is the city has had a tw- foot free board for years so the city has always understood that risk acknowledged that risk and you know prepared for that risk so so we are uh safe some of our neighboring communities that um that we work with do not have a tw- foot free board so those properties and those flood special flood Hazard areas west Cape May um will be affected and others lower Township um will be affected Middle Township will be affected so there's a lot of communities um that haven't prepared for that but this is just kind of a I just mentioned that as a tangential thing that um it's it's coming and affecting us but I think the K May City is well prepared thank you that's all I had uh City cler nothing tonight mayor thank you mayor just a quick update um jazz festival for a reminder for everyone is October the 25th through the 27th um all throughout the city uh a very nice event and you know what I love the community we live in here and this week I had the wonderful opportunity of marrying a couple and I get a text from our police chief they're here and I said I'm on my way I'll be right there and long and beh lo and behold that when they when I got here they had flowers it was beautiful we went out to the Colonial House um came back in signing signing the documents I asked him about the flowers I police chief gave me the flowers so he's got a got a got a gentle heart um but yeah that was really sweet that is cool we have a great Community we have great people in this city here yeah so very cool yeah uh Council McDade no I just want to thank uh you uh Deputy manager Justin rigs police chief uh Fel and uh fire chief Coulter for coming out we had a wonderful event for the Village Green civic association on Saturday at the Lutheran Church um we had over 60 people in attendance and we've been doing a membership drive and getting a lot of new people people who have moved in to K Bay or have had homes in the Village Green area for a number of years but are now here full-time so we're really excited about seeing a Resurgence in that part of the city so it's really nice uh to see that Community come together and thank you for coming out the updates that everyone provided everyone very much appreciated so thank you that was great yeah thank you very much uh councilman Meyer I just just want to mention how you know going along with the uh the deputy mayor saying how a how much of a wonderful Community we have we also have wonderful visitor visitors and uh October Fest seemed like it went off without a hitch yeah and I don't get I don't often get a chance to see see it so U it's really cool to be a part of these community events yeah councilman jger um yeah I'd like to just um remind everybody uh that the the environmental commission will be managing this coming Sunday um October 6th it's going to be a Dun day volunteer dune grass planning uh pretty important for our city of course um and I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun it's it begins at 10 a.m. and uh you don't really need to bring anything but yourself and uh meet at The Lifeguard headquarters 10:00 a.m. and it's only expected to be about two hours so if anybody's got the time please stop out and volunteer that's great that' be that'll be a fun one thank you uh I just have a couple quick ones again I I thank the Chief uh fashaw CH Chief cter and and and Moren thank you very much for hosting that really and and all of the Village Green Association lots of good information um mostly just reminders that you have really good um people protecting us here in the city of Kate May um and but I know on the same day they had October Fest they had the event at uh Ray's Farm uh so we had a lot of activities in town and and uh was handled really well so thank you uh and I just uh I want to thank the county uh again for the nature trails for open space but also we were approved uh by open space for uh Harbor viiew Park so that's another U big uh I think a million doll um approximately um grant that I think will be a really nice Improvement to um it's already a beautiful Park but could use a little tidying up and upgrade in um I think really will look wonderful and lastly uh Halloween um just remember that's coming up I think do we have one more council meeting before that yeah we'll have a resolution on the next meeting um we are talking with the police chief about um closing a a couple blocks or oneway blocks of Washington and I'm leaving it in very capable hands of our city manager and police chief but um you know for trick-or-treaters just that five to is it eight eight 8 5 to 8:00 p.m. um I I just know as a parent when you're walking down that street and cars are flying with little kids and masks that they can't even see out of I always get terrified um so anyway with that we'll open it up for public comment anyone wishing to speak please come to the microphone mayor real quick if I could just as Chief's coming up I just wanted to um comment uh deputy chief F our OEM coordinator um did a wonderful job um doing a tabletop exercise uh it was kind of one of those Perfect Storm type things that we probably won't see in the city of Kate may but you know that was kind of the famous last words um you know it was that with the diesel plant Fourth of July weekend complete power shutdown um all the gener you know going through the whole scenario so I just wanted to comment since he is in um attendance I just wanted to tell him excellent job with that we had all the players in the room and um Chief F all and um morning McDade was there as well so I just wanted to say thank you thank you thank you very much thank you Deputy City maner I I'll expound on that I'm proud to be partner with Mike um we've been together a long time in the fire service he takes a sincere passion with this his father is in OEM um you know so sometimes I look at it like man we're doing a lot of work here but it's it's the practice that we're doing that's going to make it better when it happens so I applaud him and I'm proud to be one of his coordinators along with Justin Rigs and Frank mclusky um I think Mike deserves around of Applause for what he does so yeah I'll be quick asz I know the late hour is coming I just want to uh expound actually on the flower thing so I'm here they're here young couples here um getting married um we're waiting to get married and um you know I walked through the hall here later and they were you know I was married did a thing I I notic she didn't have flowers um I'm like you know let's just walk next to the Acme that's what Kate May Kate May does you know what I mean so they were very happy to receive flowers um from us because I said it's on behalf of the city to do that you know I didn't know how long Moran was going to be traffic was was thick coming through town that afternoon so she got here they were married right outside right on the next door porch um and they were very happy I saw them the next day um and they were still smiling though people love to come to Kate May it's the wedding capital in my opinion of the East Coast so it's very important I've been around the country so it's it's very nice so um I couple things I want to just circle back on again um Miss MCD thank you for inviting us to Village Green's uh Property Owners meeting um I think it's very informative we you know it's you know we were very busy that day I'm like God how how do I stick this into my day get here but the questions that were asked the the the the way it was handled um you know I think we should do more of that um you know we sometimes do you no matters how it's going doing coffee and cop at Victorian Towers they ask about parking and and things like that and how to get across the street safely we're addressing some of those items so I think that should be done more often uh if there's any Civic organizations I mean Shane you're you're part of a lot of groups even the VFW you know I mean maybe we come down and talk to people at the BFW I mean it's a lot of work sometimes and one more meeting I know I'm adding meetings and and things but people want to know and I don't know and deputy chief e and and his chief don't know what the needs are unless we're out there we can't be blinded to it so speaking with our community is very important and I've been there twice for meetings and you know they'll throw the questions at you they're not afraid to throw them at you but they're good questions allowing me to go check a street end hey what's wrong with a blind area they have have an issue with a blind Corner which I've reported to the county to see if we can try to figure out how to pull off of that intersection because Miss McD's experienced it other people in the room experienced it and if we can address something before something bad happens that's what our goal is so I appreciate you the invite there um you notice I'm wearing my pink ribbon October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month um we definitely are um a community that's a part of that we've had a lot of people that are affected by that um just lost a dear friend this Sunday not from breast cancer but from cancer so um it's near and dear to our heart several of my police officers um my staff have been affected by cancer so um you'll see the officers around either with a pink t-shirt underneath their uniform shirt or with our pink ribbons um uh just honoring and celebrating those that have beaten cancer and those remembering those that have have not have lost that battle so um it's a very bad disease um October Fest and the ray Farm event um again another busy part of the day um I I will say that October Fest in Kate May on Saturday was it felt like a summer day on St roids it was if you were out and about and and in this community it was it was warm I was sweating it was 80° it felt like and it just was a lot of people but again um I will applaud the fire staff my staff Public Works in and out grabbing trash cans Eric staff he's still here so you know it it's it's what you guys let us do to make this community better so wee we all the employees appreciate that but they hustle I got to give it to them they hustled and they they made it made October Fest what it was and you know I there wasn't knock on wood one problem couple little hiccups here and there but we block the roads off we make it safe and it's it's here to stay so uh the event at West Kate may I think that's also here to say it's not that it's a Kate May issue but um it was a very well- ran event uh I've spoken to the people over there um it you know I I could imagine I didn't realize how many people were over here and there was probably 5 600 people over there I'm like where are we sticking them all that they were there that event ended four people left there and came here so again Chief I just want to compliment one thing too because we've all been to different festivals in other towns and things like that and typically what I see is the um saw horses you know which just blocking things off I mean you know you hate to talk about it in public but you have big trucks parked completely blocking any access to that area that's we all hate to think about what could happen but most towns aren't doing that kind of detail that that your staff is doing I appreciate that's definitely a part of my coordination with the coord coordination with uh Mike e that's something we he's taught me over the years in Son of our training you know it's not if it's when I've spoken about that at the meetings um I told the people in the Village Green we don't I don't live in a dream world things can happen but I want to be as prepared as we can you guys entrust us to do this job so we're going to be prepared as I can I could buy a bunch of heavier weight barricades but yeah it's not it's unslightly to see a big trash can in the way but you know what they're there to take the trash away and they're there to block that runaway car or something we have K9 out there I give a high regard to the cman county sheriff's department CH Sheriff Nolan who allows the K9 unit to come down here the mounted Patrol to come down here and we staff it so um that that again is great coordination from that their love for the city they love coming here so I appreciate that um I wanted to Circle back on uh you had asked actually there was a member she's not here about uh Washington Street speeding so we did a road study uh internally with the police department um Lieutenant Ma who's in charge of Patrol Division had the officers run for two weeks it's prox it's been two weeks since we've had that meeting um and I could just pass these along and you guys can see them real quick that's the data sheet that we we get you'll get that copy the manager will get that copy tomorrow so that you can see that it's actually a sheet that the officers have in their vehicle they write down each speed that they denote um how many tickets were given on that on that period of time they were there um and then they report that back to the lieutenant which he'll tabulate that and tell me how many speeding tickets were involved there was approximately 19 tickets given during that two period I will tell you I I we bumped into a few locals but that's kind of the reason why we do it because they may be the on speeding that just trying to get through one part of town and you know it was some Out of Towners but there was a couple locals um that were involved in it and you know they did get tickets they called me afterwards and said hey what's going on here I blamed you guys but that's okay CU I can do that however they understood that we were trying to crack down um I I I pointed them back to locals that I know Mr you know Mr Mr Nash and Mr Notch pardon me I said if you have have questions or concerns speak to some of the people that are are friends speak to speak to Yogi speak to people like that and they did um so there were several tickets given out there there was one for uh tossing injur debris out of a vehicle that's throwing a cigarette out of a vehicle but so that's what the actual ticket is called um but uh it was a local guy he he called me immediately and he was very upset but I said you have an astray correct use it so I won't go into who it was but again that's a pet that's a pet peeve of mine along with children in child seats I I drive down the street I see kids bouncing in the cars I just walk up to if when I was stopping cars walk up and say you have precious carg go aboard please seat Bel it in you know what I mean so um I do have some notes on that paper that Shane's looking through but I think I need to not and while Chief's doing that I'll just say at which cops I like the most right here how many tickets were giv out I'll just say you know on on Saturday Chief really great job I I uh was able to ride along with Chief for a little bit of time and uh just your officers did a tremendous job I just wanted to give a shout out to you Justin had a ride along he's put an application in to be a k May police officer sorry Paul he's coming over to this side of the bridge um but uh yeah the flowers Village Green uh Pink October Ray this study like I said so um we'll continue that what I what I'd like to do is do it about four times a year and I think I'm just going to make it a part of that area there a part of the patrol divisions you know we we do directed Patrol but I'm just going to encourage them to be out there a little bit more often we're going to run the study with these sheets four times a year because I can't get a grid barometer on it just doing it now it's it's it's September and October I needed to get do it again around Christmas time and then Springtime and then in Midsummer to give you a actual good reading right now my approximate reading was 32 miles an hour yeah I I think uh but it's still speeding the speed limit is you know it's still speeding 20 20 so people people got T tickets I think we gave about nine or 10 tickets out to people that were speeding over 20 27 M hour yep you know there's some outliers we're always about worried about the outliers because they're the ones that speed the most but it shows what I'm seeing here is a lot of uh not much above 20 not much above 20 but there was the ones that jumped up to 27 and you know you we set the liit at 20 Mr Jagger did a a long study on that 5 Mile 10 m radius of death you know me so if I don't you know encourage it then that's where we are so get a quick question for you um the no turn on red that was another issue that was brought up at Acme no at Madison Madison in Washington yes so what happens I had to run that study first then pull back to PNC and run so I didn't want to run it concurrently because I had them further up at Mac um because I needed them to safely turn around they had to do K turns to chase out of people because they were running it both ways the people that were coming at them they have to do K turns to get out of town so I saw one what they'll do is I'm going to announce it they're going to be at PNC Bank the old PNC Bank watching that light so if you're going to run it if you're going to speed through it we're going to be on you in the next two weeks I'd like to talk about the no turn on red I I mentioned to the mayor a couple other people earlier today last night around this time dusk time I was heading Northbound on Washington M and someone sitting on Madison and they made a leftand turn coming this way during their red light if I had been 5 Seconds even ahead of time I would have been in the side of that car you and the scooter wouldn't been good I mean like you going to make a left- hand turn at a red light what country do we live in do we I mean where people just do this yeah it's people just kind of live in that La La Land sometimes they just want to get to somewhere again my sentiment is always slow down and smell the solid air give me a pound on it there you go I'm out thank you Chief anyone else this evening Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue um I just want to touch on the fact that surf pro has to do remediation and the contractor for the firehouse is not responding to the issues I want make sure that Council keeps note of this so that any other future contracts that maybe we don't give them the contract to do any other future building for City buildings my next comment has to do with as a TPA member I just want to make a a shout out that on October 10th it's a Thursday night the TPA is having meet the candidates night that are running for city council and for mayor and that will be at 5:30 the doors will open at the elementary school in the audit torium the presentation and the questions will start at 6 o' you thank you Jules Rous 1010 New York Avenue I'd like to compliment the county on the paving job that they did today at um New York Avenue and Madison and Kerney they redid that entire intersection and the police department they had they had cars at New York New Jersey uh Madison because that's a very funny unusual intersection and while I was standing there one guy came down New York crossed right across all the the the new uh oil that had just been dropped on the on the ground prep preparing for the the black top to be laid down and I'm standing there with a supervisor he says look at that that guy's going to have it right down the side of his car but they did a very nice job um a very concerning thing last week there was a Zony board meeting with the uh Grand Hotel uh two years ago they built without permits any approval from anyone a lounge area uh parallel to and just off of of Beach Avenue and they they um they went before the board to get approval for it and it was denied 70 for a number of different reasons the only reason I bring it here is I have no idea whether they're going to appeal the decision that's obviously their decision however there was a breakdown in our system where we allowed uh that project to start several years ago and continue without being stopped and it's been finished been sitting there with U I think some 70 odd seats tables chairs uh two fire pits umbrellas and um my understanding is that there had never been any stop work orders there had been several visitations from code enforcement but to my knowledge there was never any citations or or um violations started and I think um we need to to evaluate why that could happen I mean it's such a prominent location there's no reason why that should go under the under the rug Paul I know you weren't not you weren't your in business here I'm going to respectfully disagree with that characterization slightly I think the city did what it needed to do and it did it in its normal course of operation so when you when I talk to a Bruce Britain our uh zoning officer there was another permitted construction operation going on at that location during the same time they started this illegal construction so when you drove by on a normal course it it it didn't have any appearance so when you talk about what was done you don't really see a lot from the street until you got up close so it wasn't until it was close to finish that it was noticed they were given notice to that you couldn't use it that they needed a permit they were very cooperative and they didn't utilize it in the fashion that they had intended because they realized you know after notice so we try to work with our residents in commercial properties yes do some of them go and do things without permits first yes do we end up find you know catching them and noticing them yes but the process we followed our normal process we notified them they stopped they came it took a long time for them to make an application yes but they didn't use it to my understanding during that time and they made an you know they made ultimately made an application to the zoning board HPC application went through the process went to the zoning board the zoning board I you know heard the application they made a decision that it didn't meet the warrants for variance and it was denied Mr Britain will be communicating to uh the applicant okay you were denied we all know they have an appeal process so you know we can't force them to you know take it up during this appeal process but they'll they've been communicated to says well when you get to this point if you're not going to appeal it you'll have a certain period of time to remove it and and restore it back to uh original condition he was already looking at old photography looking up old plans to see what the condition was prior to this to make sure that it's restored in its proper fashion so I think I think what happened was unfortunate that we had a a business owner take it upon themselves to to do some modification of their property without approvals but I think our city staff did what was appropriate in their due course of action and um I think there's any made an ultimate decision of denial and maybe that was maybe the start smartest decision the zoning board did to maybe deny that to to show some other business owners that may want to do some things without getting approval and ask for forgiveness later that guess what you may not just get your approval just because you built it so um but I think I think the city did the proper course of action well certainly just if I could just add on to that um I I have to um wholeheartedly agree with Mr dietrich's characterization of it um I actually uh was filling in kind of protemp secretary um planning board zoning board secretary um was at of town that night so he actually in a quasi way had City administration at at that meeting um filling in Pro protm uh secretary and ultimately the application was heard and the zoning board did their job and um you know they they made a decision um based off the facts that were um um you know laid out on the on the table there was a conversation you know the next day with Mr Brittain and ultimately the way they got to the zoning board was the zoning officer like Mr Dietrich said found that was in violation so ultimately they brought that application to the board so um I I'll just reserve my comments that that what is their appeal period I believe it's I'll let 45 days from publication of the decision and we have another and I don't has has the local hotel filed an appeal they have um and that's it's probably more of an update I was prepared to give tonight but yeah they filed an appeal um that was just recently I believe yeah they filed an appeal that's currently under appeal they filed for a motion to stay that was partially denied partially granted by the judge um not that you're willing to get into that but that appeal of course is appealing a favorable decision to the city we've had multiple favorable cision decisions to the city I I know you're not saying it well I'm just explaining that since it's I'm very happy well just just to be clear since you brought it up when the city has been put to the test on these types of things we've vailed um and that case is precisely one of those examples where down the line the city HPC planning board affirmed affirmed affirmed I was without without exception yeah so we're you know on the same token though with something like the example that you brought up the city and this is the position that the city has taken in all of its land use type litigation we're interested in compliance we're interested in buildings come into compliance with our codes and our standards we're not out to just punish people for punishment's sake however at a certain point people have to come into compliance so I think uh Mr Brittain brief me on the grand situation and he you know he going to the board is is a version of compliance if somebody's out of compliance say look listen you got to go to the board make your presentation if they deny it then then it you know that the compliance issue can proceed in that other tract but the fact that they went to the board went to the trouble of making application hiring professionals hiring whoever else paying the application fees sitting in front of a board presenting an application is its own version of compliance um and there's definitely some costs associated with that but um and there'll be some additional costs as they go forward undoubtedly uh litigation is the the cost is guaranteed the outcomes are not the other question I have is and Mr Dietrich you may be able to uh comment or may maybe not the proximity to the ocean would that have required or may require a caer permit no not at that location I don't believe that that I mean the application was denied no that would I don't think that would have required a Capper permit if well like if if they if they were affirmed at the if they got an approval at the zoning board Bo for what they had constructed I don't think that would have then necessitated them to go to get a caer permit I don't think so but thank you but that's a mo but that is a moot point at this point because they weren't they weren't given an approval so the discussion of whether they need a CA per or not really is is um Elemental yeah I mean it's it's it's kind of a study I'm hopeful that both of these examples will give everyone that comes to Kate May to do business the understanding that we have rules they should be followed and if not the city is willing to take the expense of litigating so that I congratulate the city on thank you thank you Mr Ral and just echoing that uh the decisions that have been made lately um and I mean over the last few years have all been in the city's favor uh and it's a testament to the boards and the the the board solicitors the board profession and the volunteers on those boards they do a good job and frankly the judges have agreed with that as well any any other uh comments this evening motion to adjourn I'd like to make a comment go ahead please for those on the boards please make sure you give your reasons for your answers that helps the judges when it comes to that case I'll make a motion to adjourn thank you time is 7:17 7:17 enjoy have a wonderful evening everyone thank you y