##VIDEO ID:frhhxfuiY1E## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the repic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy Justice for All all right thank you Dr mere uh so uh appreciate you coming back this is our fourth steering committee meeting um and we think it's our final steering committee for this plan um and if I can get this going to the this way so what we want to do today is really move through the the comments um that we received on the plan and thank you uh to Terry for foring those over so we that's just main point of this and and just talk about that and the next steps so what we did here is we took the comments that we received uh organized them a little bit more kind of geographically uh make it easier to talk about an area uh and these are the comments that we received and then our proposed resolution everyone should have a copy of the presentation in front of you um and also if you can sign in a sign in sheet um so the first comment we received um so we're talking about Seashore and Broadway and there's a couple slides here for Seashore and Broadway first one was about including language that the best solution for getting uh bicycles and foot traffic off of Broadway is to build a bicycle ped bridge over the wetlands to connect Grant Avenue to First Avenue the City of Cape May so the project team discussed that and and you'll see for this one is you'll see for some of these other uh comments as well um you know we're hesitant to to be specific about a scope of a project at this point this is a this is a plan it's to identify locations uh and some potential counter measures but not um to really scope out the specifics of a project so the discussion was that there will be a our resolution is there will be a followup as part of the plan to do a bike ped um access study that will look at different uh uh access to the to the beach in the downtown from West Cape May and including this you know including this potential connection of a bridge over the wetlands and then you know to to we think it would be best to put that as part of that that study not to you know identify that as the solution at this point and I know that was this was a a big discussion at one of our previous steering committee meetings question George sure of course Ione asked the question um so I'm just trying to understand so you want to do another complete study to identify potential routes to the beach from the western part of the cape island or the the island that's that's what you're suggesting that was in the plan as as one of our uh follow-up actions um in here and that could also be a supplemental planning Grant to do a ped bike access study to kind of relook at the the study that was done previously and reassess that and then that would look at different roots and what are the best Roots the safest rots most efficient routes to okay so I i' I've been coming these meetings for four months six months I I thought that's what we were doing actually now this was this was to look at locations where are where are the crashes happening on the local roads and and look at what we can do for on road uh safety okay so the only death we've had in the last as my recollection was on Broadway that would statistically make Broadway the most dangerous road because there was a death there getting people off that will be a primary thing of this study for me I don't understand why we're just it just I don't understand what we're doing that I'm very confused about the outcome of this project if it doesn't include ways to mitigate the or improve the safety that's to me that's what this Project's about George if I may sure the uh what I read in the draft report was that the recommendation to do an update of the 2015 or 16 uh bike uh and pedestrian plan audit for uh the island because what was done before was only Kate May and Kate May point because at that time West Kate may I think maybe didn't choose to participate I'm not sure what happened there so to update it to include westcap May and include parts of lower Township so it is a updated bicycle route plan that was my understanding it's in this draft plan and which is that's an option that doesn't mean it's I'm propose I'm going to propose this we don't need a $100,000 study to figure out the best way to get people off Broadway I can tell you right now and again I I I'm very adamant about this because it's there is very limited places where you actually can get off of Broadway the route should always go down Pacific across Sunset and go this way and I I don't understand a study that's just spending money this is pretty clear what what the the way to get people down every if you just sit stand there you can watch where all the people are coming from people go to the path of least resistance that's the way they go they don't go down Broadway so I I'm I'm I misunderstood the LA I just misunderstood the last six months I apologize yeah I understand you feel strongly about that that uh solution I know um the city also wants to look at what are the best options and may this may be the best option but also if you're going for federal money you can't you need to look at all Alternatives um when you're looking at at bike routes or looking for things if you're going to use federal money and go through NEPA you have to look at different options so um go through that process so you're saying that you're saying that uh another study is going to have to happen for that that was in the plan was to do an update to the 2016 study and said this would be part of it is to look at all these Lo root locations and look at what are the best locations to have an analysis done to say this may be a great route maybe for from one from one um Source U to get there but for other folks coming from a different area there may be other other routs that are needed as well so and believe me I'm I'm not saying that I'm not saying that this is the only path to the beach what I'm saying is that if you live on the west side of Broadway all the way out to where it hits lower Township out past on Stevens Avenue you can either go to the point to the beach or you can if you want to go to a Cape May beach this is the only way you can get there safely safely because once you go down say you're coming down Second Avenue from far off down by let's just say West you're coming down you cannot ride your bike down Perry Street in front of w park that is not doable there's no room it's dangerous it comes up as red on your map okay so where do you have to go you have to make a right turn onto Broadway this eliminates that issue so tell me the alternative for people that live on West there is no other alternative you can't go across the wetlands in uh uh South K May Meadows that's and you're not allowed to be on the beach except the bird and walk around so there is no other option for those people unless you keep going and I don't know how you get there because you can't go down Parry so I I I'm just frustrated by the whole we got to do another $100,000 survey or study to come up with solutions from that area I'm not saying there shouldn't be other ones and I've Al I've talked about those too if you live if you live at the campground in West Cap May or you live uh on the other side of Broadway the solution's easy because you can just go to Park Avenue it's a bike lane already we're putting it a roundabout in you go around the roundabout down Grant right at the life saving station there I give you another route so it's it's it's not that there I'm not saying that other routs can't be considered a route for people from the west side of West Cape May this is the only route unless you get down BR I don't need a study that's tell and a quick question on and the thing that was uh everything that was outside of the scope of the bike walk um plan um this talking about but this did not include studies correct I'm not following your question this so in um what you're suggesting here is that a further uh study would have to be for what we've proposed as as a solution but so I thought that the $200,000 Grant was for the planning and recommend recommendations and then the if we get the 600,000 from the federal that that's enacting the plan that we're working on now so evidently that's not the case I don't know what the 600,000 you're referring to well it when it's part of the federal plan that we go back once we have this these recommendations the study from what you recommend this plan put together then it's implementing my understanding is then another Grant would be the city with uh submit another Grant and that would be the implementation am I correct did everybody understand that to be yep so the way the way the process works is these the priorities that are that are in the plan would all be eligible H for applications for implementation it wouldn't be for money to do all that you know you'd have to prioritize what I understand that what would be where you're applying for and if it's a project for an improvement if it's a study you know those are all things that can be applied for yeah and they could be separate applications so I'm not if that's answering your question it may not be well let's continue I guess and we'll we'll see what we can dispute on that too okay next comment was there three more comments um one was talking about eliminating the proposed sidewalk on Seashore Road due to their cost and that there are few Walkers most are bicyclists and Sher in wide shoulders are satisfactory um the next the other the the next comment was eliminate all parking on Broadway and make continuous wide shoulder and sherels as far as possible and the third comment was considered speed humps or tables on Broadway so our proposed resolution is that look the plan intent is to address safety for all Road users um we would recommend not you know precluding sidewalks under consideration um because when you when you apply later on you will be scoping out those projects and if you rule out sidewalks then you're kind of limiting your opportunity in the future um to include them if if you wanted to in the future so our recommendation is that you don't you know take those out at this point um but would study you know improvements on Seashore and Broadway to scope that out to figure out what are the best options and come up with that specifically what we want to do there as part of a you did an implementation Grant it would be just you know to fully scope that out and design improvements on Seashore bro Road and Broadway which may or may not include sidewalks um my my my thought on this is at our last meeting we were very together in getting not doing sidewalks all the way out um into uh lower lower Township uh I don't know why you're not accepting that recommendation I mean it it just seems that to us at beac that is a waste of time and money I well I wasn't at your last meeting oh I wasn't at your last meeting because we're only invited to every other meeting of this right the steering committee I'm here as a steering committee member but when I was last here I did note that I have seen people with strollers and walking along that road and running along that road so you just you can't assume you don't need sidewalks especially eventually more of that's likely to get developed there's a lot of big lots of land along there still that could be developed they're developing behind the church now so it just comes way down in the priority list later when they go for implementation grants and it'll be up to lower Township whether they want to pursue that because it's their jurisdiction there's no reason to say we're against a sidewalk at this point it's not so much being against them it's just that the the dollar figure and I can't remember what it was million and a half but we aren't the ones deciding that correct we're just make we're making a recommendation from our committee okay well uh as a member of the steering committee me as a member of the steering committee I would say leave in uh the sidewalks everywhere a gap has been a a noted for possible future implementation that's all yeah doesn't mean it's going to happen but it might need to happen someday that's that's reasonable yes but just note that yeah well I think things are prioritized somewhere in here aren't they well we we don't prioritize each of the each of the recommendations but in general there priorities yes right the other the other concern about doing that is if you can't do it everywhere that's where it becomes disjointed as far as routing and that's the problem that we've seen in downtown Kate May is the routing between the oneway streets and and safety Factor uh to me the best safest is continuous routing that you don't come to a point and it's like oh it stops now where do you go and so it's to me it would be very difficult from Seashore all the way to the beach to continue this uh without a lot of trouble from the neighbors and also um the cost so um I'll just say that I I mean to me and I have no problem putting it on the list way down on the priority but I don't remember ever seeing any data that that supported this where's the data that said this kind of just popped up oh we're going to put sidewalks on seash road it wasn't that we're going to it was they identified it as a gap where there are no sidewalks that's all so what's the data that says that we need sidewalk no no what it it would need further study and it would have to be a priority for lower Township that's fine spending money oh forget it I'm I'm done and and and just one note Runners most Runners do not go on sidewalks right and in fact as we're talking about I'm thinking about the uh bike path that's been running through the county continuously and that's a shared path Offroad for bikes and Walkers and runners ERS in an asphalt rather than concrete and maybe that's the solution for parts of of Seashore I don't know the rail line with the or not even the rail line possibly the rail line someday but even right off the road like they're going to do on uh Sunset Boulevard at least parts of it is going to be off the road when they put in the bike path on Sunset Boulevard so some of it is going to be right next to the road and continuous with some kind of designation that this is bike but some of it's gonna be off-road with some like you see along Route nine I think it would just be noted if you could that for the bike committee bike pedestrian committee we would like that low prioritize prior okay and and of sure and that's Kate May's committee so that's fine and you are invited to every meeting it's on the calendar every uh second I wasn't aware I was told come I was part of the steering committee and so I and when I ask when's the next meeting I'm told when it is which is in two months so that's why I come when I come I don't know why you're coming every time on the committee well how are you on the committee when you were in West Cap May well Katherine it works like this I was invited to become a member of the committee and I'm sure they would have invited you also so if you would like to be you'll have to check with the committee okay no one explained any of that to me so I didn't know George okay there to the city okay okay next one Steven Street uh the committee comment understanding was to stripe Steven street with shoulders rather than constructing sidewalks again um our resolution proposed response to that is that will be scoped when you start to look at what the you know that's a safety location and you know scope it out and decide what's best for that location right and note higher priority we would like to see that because that's less costly costly if you don't put uh sidewalks in um I know that uh it's important to one of our committee members who lives on that street but I think it's it's definitely um uh we would all verify that it is a higher priority correct okay uh my thoughts if you're going to do uh Steven Street you might as well do uh seag grve because they High right into each other and that's the the bike path going into the point to keep off a Sunset Boulevard so if you're going to do one you should do the other that was that was the discussion one of the places you identified was seag grve in lower Township and we basically said Stevens is an extension of right SE gr so it's all a safe road it's all the safe it's all the same road basically except you cross over U so that was kind of added to it okay okay and higher priority so Terry when you're say higher priority can you clarify when you mean High what's well it's very low priority for sidewalks on Seashore um this is a a less expensive fix for something that um I believe the whole Cape Island feels is is important okay I I'm not trying to be argumentative but my understanding was that we're identifying locations that need more work for implementation grants grants which will involve more engineering studies for those grants and that we're just identifying locations and roots that need more attention not what the solution is for that route and what specific you know is it a sidewalk is it a stripe is it that that's not what this committee is for correct that was my understanding correct we in the plan we have some suggested potential counter measures that could be but that isn't the scope of what the project is to be these are some things that be considered but it's not the solution it's more here are the areas that need something done right and here are some possible Poss options but this isn't where we correct decide because we don't have the details of the of the benefits of each or the costs of each exactly okay exactly exactly and I only speak up about that because I've been working with my own um projects and Kate May point on a lot of engine in studies and projects so I have some sense of the of the flow of process how that happens and that you have to have some steps along the way before you get there so so let me understand again I'm going because I'm I'm a little slow obviously when you presented the last time you had a list of projects specific projects which is exactly the opposite of what Catherine just said you had projects listed one was the sidewalk on and it it had a cost Associated an estimate cost associated with it my understanding was those were six project were six of them those six projects were and these were estimates of what it would cost you sent us back and said hey can you guys take a look at this what do you think we said okay we're going to look at them we looked at the project for example for Seashore million and a half half that's a cost what's the benefit compared to the other projects that we had so there was six so what what was that data what was what yeah it was a it was a preliminary estimate based on some potential countermeasures to say this gives you an order of magnitude of what what a project would be out here from this so the project is from this point to this point it's the limits right we would do some improvements based on these potential countermeasures we think it would cost about this much money so it's not to say this is a scoped out project specifically but it it gives you it gives an order magnitude so when you're looking to prioritize down the road or looking for funding Etc that kind of thing so here's where I think the Gap yeah we we're talking about to what you're saying yeah when we got that list we were said they said you said look at that list and tell us what you think and we dutifully we said okay yeah we're going to take a look at the list list well if you were at the meeting you would have saw it last meeting no it was the one they presented it to us I don't remember seeing figures so let me finish so there was a list of six projects you sent us away and asked for comments and did I miss something here you said sent us away and we said yeah okay we see these six projects thank you awesome thanks for identify them we say and then we came back with what we sent you which was okay and we keep going back to seure and I fine leave it on the list but it's we feel that it's a lower priority than the other projects that you have I agree but you asked us to to do that and that's what we did okay so that's was the note that was sent back am I right guys yeah okay all right so so I'm not mind so if the committee feels that you know seore and Broadway is a lower priority I guess it's it's it's lower Township in West Kate May ultimately you know it's in your jurisdiction and and I guess you know we want to make sure just to be clear the committee came back and and made a comment regarding putting sidewalks from West the the ca the bridge across the canal to West K that was the scope of that we didn't we we actually said when we responded we said we feel that there's a huge issue from Stimson down to the Firehouse because of the turn at well the the campground and then duckies and then the turn on the central because that is a mess so that intersection really we felt should be focused on a priority yeah rather than there because of the danger involved whereas we felt that and I am one of the runners that run down Seashore and I run on the shoulder and I don't have any issues but that's per that's just me I don't see a lot of people walking on there and there's not a lot of people that live up there people get in their cars when they go there or they get on their bicycles there's a bike path it's the extension of the bike path so anyway so that's what we were trying to do based on the six projects you listed so that maybe that's where I got confused the whole thing yeah correct that's what we understood and so that there so there's a bit there's a disconnect there's a little bit of confusion here because I think you you gave us three projects that you thought were prior priorities and then we looked at them and discussed them and this is this and we added a few more at the last meeting right right so we added three more that were of concern to you and we included them so there were six total projects I think right yeah right yeah and then my mind and the priority of the different projects is what comes out of this right well they're all six going to be in there and then how they get prioritized later I think it's up to each Town what they're going to implement what they want to apply for in terms of Grants right so um that that kind of works so I hope that clarifies things so you know the discussion on the side I mean with the steering committee is there a consensus about this going back to this sidewalk on Seashore I want to make sure I understand what what's the consensus of the steering committee is the steering committee saying we're no sidewalks and absolutely look at this let me clarify my since I've caused this somewhat I don't really personally care that much whether there sidewalks all the way to the bridge or not my understanding was the if you don't include every possibility in what comes out of this phase of the safe filing project you can't add it later when you go for Grants so if it's not identified as a possible problem you can never apply for grants in the future for it that come out of this Safe Streets program yeah and and in in the reality when you apply for an implementation Grant you'll say we're going to look at safety improvements from here to here and you talk about all these different things and all these different possibilities and then as you go into the process you say well sidewalks isn't we don't want to do sidewalks and them out what what I think we're coming to the conclusion on is some of these are higher priority than others absolutely that's where we are okay that's what we want noted and I do agree that the uh West Cape May portion up to a along Seashore is the higher priority to anything between there and the rural area towards the bridge I do agree with that so if left out and that's fine I don't care that much all right can I ask you one more question sure so prioritization I one of the things that I get worried about is that you take the shotgun approach and you put 12 projects or eight or nine or whatever on there and then you don't focus in on the ones that you really need to get done because then they're all on there and everybody says well I want this one on with whereas if you could make the project list shorter and and I I hear you I don't think that this it's not on the thing you can't try to get a grant for that's not you if lower wants to go get a grant they can probably go get a grant for a just like we could redo Stevens Avenue anytime we want you know that's not this because it's not in this project I'm just trying to you won't be able to get a ss4a grant right well I get that that was okay yeah so that that thanks for that clarification yeah yeah okay you're kind of ruling out the ability to get an ss4a Grant if you don't have it that was where I thought I understood it from and you know we do have somebody here from government and Kate May um what comes out of this and it was your Grant you're going to from Kate May focused on your highest priorities in Kate May correct yes and the ones that are in our own jurisdictions more so it's going to be up to us to take the lead on those the K is not going to do it for us but because we've got this planning that includes the whole island we'll have that to draw up on and not have to start over from square one doing our own study of Safe Streets in our own towns correct so this is getting us ahead of the of ahead of the curve believe this project was for the although Kate May got the grant thank you this was for the whole island it is for the whole island for for yeah for planning but not for implementation yes every town plan to this action plan right but that's no different than what K has to do too so right right exactly right right but because we've been included in all this and it's the whole island we'll be able to take the same thing and go for something that affects us and since so much of what we've talked about is the connections between communities that are going to take cooperation between the communities to get money to do something you know it's good that we're doing it this way yeah there's no question that we the original bike walk was very limited we were you know very disappointed even as a Kate May resident that it didn't tie to West Cape May uh didn't tie to my side of the neighborhood on Lafayette straight um and so we've always always been looking at the big picture for everybody but I I I just want to clarify that um we're a bike and we're an advisory committee so all the studies in the world and the the professional uh recommendations we all live here and we would appreciate that um these high priority lists are stated because we ride bikes we we know this area um right you know no disrespect no disrespect but um that's where I think we're a little confused that uh um and I know we talk about the specifics but because we're talking about the high priority areas right right okay okay all right we'll keep next one is uh Lafayette Bank and and decator uh so there were some comments here about the scope number one is about um specific things to do there you know the same issue that we've talked about um noting that some work had already been done under number two there uh then there was a note about um improve uh empty lot at the corner eliminating parking meters and and allowing handicap parking and bike racks so this is the same issue about scoping out the project so you know so those are those are noted and when you know it's a Get Go for an implementation Grant this is will all be flushed out on what will be done there so um so that's really the idea um the the bike racting there's a note in there we have in there about that that's an Offroad Improvement but even so when you scope out the project you may look at some other options um there to improve um transportation and improve uh bike flow or something so I don't necessarily that rules it out um for implementation and again a higher not top priority but a a higher priority for that area because it's very high traffic yeah great okay um and then um I think Terry there was a note in here about and if I interpreted it right uh I kind of paraphrase I think was the comment was about providing cell phone access to the bike map I think that's what your comment I have your specific comment um I have pulled up but I think that was what you were getting at in one of your comments there Terry ume just help with so that there's a Code it goes on the website there is one on the website website but just to have that accessible we are going to be working on a paper M again but the way the way things go now it's all dig it's all off your phone so that's what that was about and we can add that in there as as part of our strategies to the plan and note that in there um also the other comments about Island water signage like that so um we can also put that in there is that could also be included as part of that bicycle pedestrian study you know what's the best way finding signage for bikes and others so maybe that would be part of that scope one of the other things that we did talk about and I don't think we were asking to actually have a mobile app our own I think the the way people navigate is they'll go to Google Maps or they'll go to W uh sure um and and they just hit the B the B icon I've done it yeah how do we get Google to actually put the map that we want so let's just use my favorite topic again we want people to go down uh Pacific not Broadway mhm and they're at the campground they hit the button and it says okay go up to Landis make a left go down how do you do you guys have any idea how to do that I don't off I but that's that's I think what we're really ask that's what real people do like when when you look to go so where we plug in the address and all you do is hit the bike thing where it gives you the best solution correct it gives the solution that's the quickest not necessarily the safest you know you could with the QR code go active map that does that for you too M right you can make your own map on Google Maps and have a link to that that shows how you want it but I don't know how well that would work to get people to do that right yeah again that's another thing to really be studied my my recommendations were a little bit disjointed but that's basically the bottom line was to get uh uh the people on their phones can get that safe routing um whether it's Google or whatever ever um okay but the safe routing part was important your note to Safe R oh no definitely um the next comment was the there was a comment about removing Washington street from the plan well again U I'm sorry to interrupt but so we we were a little confused about how how you presented to us the three areas that you thought were priorities and and so we wanted to intelligently an analyze it at our last meeting in September and say hey look uh we don't think spending a bunch of money on on Washington when we think there's other hot spots in on Cape Island that deserve more attention that's how that occurred now that we understand via Katherine's comments being via your comments that these all these areas have to be included in this study so that if in the future Kate May City wants to do something with Washington Street it's in there it's in there ex right okay we understand that now so you don't have to okay come back right yeah that's all I was trying to and you did a good job I understood it because right I used to help do grants yeah and and things so I understand you there's all these requirements you have to meet before you can even apply well no and so this has been educational so thank you very much sure sure yeah and I apologize that we did not make it as clear as we could have previously something you take for granted and forget that or regular people like us don't necessarily know that ex we thought we were on the home stretch and we're still on the first inning basically so you can eliminate that okay very good or actually add it eliminate our comment right to okay um oh we're back to sewor Broadway really important we have it in there twice exactly okay all right I wasn't sure that I didn't see that you did point it out to me okay all right so next steps here um we're planning to have a public meeting on October back to the Washington sure Street sure for a minute uh are you are you familiar with the front page article in the local newspaper the star and wave last week about Jeff just mentioned it to me and shot me the article and I I got I didn't finish reading that I got finish reading but that's okay yeah well it's yeah it it's very informative um but they uh have presented a petition to city council last week the residents uh there about the danger of speeding on Washington Street and particularly at the intersection of uh Madison and Washington Street M so personally and I think group of us would like to see that resolved you know with with a study of course but also add in Lafayette Street Lafayette Street has the exact same problem the there's fewer residents on Lafayette Street so they're not as well organized right as the Washington Street group is and and has been historically they they have been very vocal about not making uh Washington or Lafayette streets oneway streets for the last 20 years they've uh been vocal about that and they're be being vocal here and and getting publicity so right I think we're just saying Lafayette I think we had Lafayette include Washington and Lafayette Street as far as speeding goes and potential solutions to that which includes speed bumps stop signs as possibilities all all kinds of things okay thank you okay uh so um we have a public meeting scheduled for the 17th next week here um and then city council presentations I know there was a discussion about each of the municipalities I think were interested in having a presentation and it would be nice to have a resolution from every municipality to be part of this plan um so there's dates uh up there of that they'll pull together for your next uh Council meetings um I think we're looking either the 6th or the 18th for the City of Cape May um but if uh Katherine's here from K May Point George is here from West CAP may we don't have anybody from lower Township Mike's not here um but if you can give us potential dates that you think would work yeah um then we can kind of line that up and if and if you would like we can uh we drafted a resolution um we would like to have so one of the things that that we we would like we need to have as part of this plan we need to have elected officials um adopt that goal of uh zero reaching Zero fatalities or significant reduction we we agreed to that as a as a recommendation as a committee earlier in the process but the resolution would say you know the goal the city council supports a goal of whatever reduction and then also um you know supports the plan so um that would and that would be part of the plan as well so when you apply for implementation Grant you can show that you have Municipal support behind it so folks can get back to Dale or myself on on those potential dates and try to line that up and and let me know if uh if you'd like us to I can share a resolution that we drafted for the city um or if you have uh something you would like you know a format or something you share we resolution yeah that's always helpful yeah you could do the same with us and then we'll adapt it if it needs to be okay the city of Kate May will have ours on November 6th yeah so that's that's soon enough and yeah and I think that's that's it for us Dale well yeah I mean the implementation grants I mean once this program is done you'll able to go after implementation grants sure remember this is federally funded so there um sorry sorry this these are federal funds funds so there uh there is a lot of effort that goes into once you get the grant so right now I believe there's only been two given to the state of New Jersey one being um vinn and the other one being in Hamilton yeah so and vinin was a $20 million Grant which they have to match with 25% so they have to come up with $5 million Hamington is um I think theirs was 17 or 18 million but they have to match it with 35% but basically it's a 75 25% match on the grant so um but there is a lot of work in it so if you were to go after a grant that's only worth about $100,000 the Professional Services to get that Grant would probably be $3 $400,000 so you have to look at these projects and and try to combine things together right to make it so that it's worthwhile going forward with it using the federal funds is is there a way to uh do the update of the bike walk plan for the island and include some potential implementation projects in the same Grant or do you have to do as two separate ones I I would look at the bike pet plan as a supplemental planning Grant and that's a different than imp than the other ones would be implementation usually they're separated into two one's a planning Grant and then one would be more of you know implementation because like we just talked about the fees associated with an implementation Grant could exceed what the planning Grant could even you know remotely be for so I mean just thinking from the point of view of the bike walk that we're I am concerned about as well um for us to move ahead any of us on some of these bike walk changes that aren't Centric to Lafayette and Washington and the high volume air is we're going to need that planning effort updated probably first and then maybe we could do some implementation grants where we combine the roots of between town into one big project and that would help and those get more when they show that there's multiple towns cooperating together that that gets higher points I think in the scoring too um so if there's opportunities to do that so what what do you think of that George I mean obviously I thought one of the goals of this whole project was to get the towns to talk together and have a comprehensive plan I mean we all go to Cape May so everything's centered on that and the way to get there uh the way to get to the point to see the tourist attractions there all those things have to be linked together somehow and if you know if it's only a partial link it's not going to really work out which is why I'm pretty I was pretty vehement about getting the West Cate or the people that live on the other side to the beach safely which is not the case now so yes I agree okay there are other funding sources too set of Safe Streets for all and you know the Broadway if you were just just to take Broadway from say the Stimson Lane South yeah all right and go to say sjo and request a concept development that would look at all options okay and that would get you started into the process and there you look at your alternate routes for bikes also what can be done for um addressing Broadway and things like that so there you know there are other avenues that you can pursue but a concept development what comes out it's a study but it looks at all options all right and comes up with a preliminary preferred alternative okay and then that's what you can take to go forward with um going through the design to get the construction going so and I mean it's comprehensive because it goes into what's involved permitting wise you get some conceptual plans put together right so so it is a it is a good option to move forward with okay um you know because it will not just look at okay this is the only way you can get a a bike the bikes around here I mean you've got to look at everything all users you know so and it's something to be considered and that's something that's not dependent on implementing this plan it could be a separate effort starting in West K May because it's primarily their section of the road they're most concerned about because basically the implementation plans are you're moving forward with construction so you've got your concept already built in it's already been vetted um you know and that's not the case here with what's South the Broadway um we don't know what all the impacts are with going through building a bridge across the Waterway there and stuff like that so there's a lot to be considered before moving forward with that so so I mean if you add up all the projects that you've listed that's it's maybe $5 million on the ones that you had how does it make sense to go after these these federal grants when the cost to do the application in the preliminary work is a million half a million to a million dollars I mean is is all are all the projects should all the projects be looking at other alternative places to get grants rather than the you know no I mean um we're not we're not getting 18 million I'll tell you that well yeah I mean you have to look at these you know like um you know like Washington Street okay you you got a project right alone just upgrading your traffic signals on Washington Street that's over a million dollars just to upgrade the three traffic signals there okay you know because right now you're $250 to $300,000 per traffic signal that's not even addressing anything else um you know you'd probably want to look at other things I know you want to study possibly um adding in uh traffic calming and stuff like that so it can easily add up and it's you know so that could be you know that's one project that's worth standing alone yeah okay all right anything else or chairman left he resigned so at least from the K points um point of view um I think I mean we'll definitely support anything that makes it safer on the island especially in K City because as you said we all go there um but for us to get involved in any kind of implementation projects we'll probably have to wait for the updated bike walk plan so because it it's it it's complicated for us because where we want this to happen Lighthouse is a County Road right liouse County Road seag grve is lower Township does Stevens belong to W May so that's three jurisdictions so that's going to have to wait for the bike walk plan I think if that's the main focus of that is about bike walk and not um cars per se so I mean and we'll jump in on that when the time comes uh but um and we'll happy to support whatever else comes out of all your efforts here in Cap May and West Cap May um but that's kind of how I'm seeing I mean the the other thing is there were systemic uh yes treatments right I am interested so that that could also be an implementation Grant to implement systemic treatments you know and that's all over the island yeah no that would be and there's something that you could do cooperatively and now that I've learned I didn't realize that uh we could have somebody be on your committee from our town maybe we once did I don't know um I think it's up to council yes okay anyway I mean we have some Avid bikers in our town there might be one who'd be interested at some point when you get into that especially with the bike walk plan but um I'm here mostly because Dale asked if I could represent the burrow so we'd have somebody from our buau no that that would be fine and we would welcome that uh as long as again we are advisory committee at the beest of city council yeah and we don't need to or we could send someone to your me means when it's relevant to us I don't know yeah okay um we'll we'll draft a summary of our understanding of today's meeting as s back and make sure we're okay um get that back out to everybody so thank you thank you I mean this is very interesting to me I think it's going to be great if some of this happens in our lifetime I'm starting to think it won't but it will I am getting up there in years you how how long have you been the commissioner uh two years okay so now I'm in my fourth year and I have now come to realize it takes at least a year to plan something takes at least a year to construct it and it could be longer and it's like oh my God everything takes forever that's if there's no federal I'm hoping my grandchildren will see this bridge that that's that's the plan well Dale will know uh he's working on waiting on the state last I heard to finalize a project that's starting this fall sometime to replace water mains and repave and reconstruct roads in Kate May point we're just waiting for the state at this point I mean this has been going on since what last year that we started talking about this yeah and and last July is when you applied for the do funds and we got the county funds for the uh arpa that's going towards it is it arpa yeah yeah was part part of it but we're up to 13 years for the roundabout in West came well that I have no idea why that is but it could be Fally funded that's why and also there wasn't a lot of push a lot of push some issues with neighbors and like that right away and so on yeah well we're happy to see that one go same thing with Sunset Boulevard that has stretched out over time partly because of easements and and they're not done planning it no so they don't have the funding yet so and they don't have the funding so this is going to be a long time um it's called hurry up and wait well I'm starting to understand a little more about why it's like that and just kind of accept it but yeah it does it does require uh officials to say so what's happening so what's what happening that does help does it does it does this has been um I think constructive and instructive today and so we for me personally I understand the process a lot more and that's just part of the the Dynamics of discussing this as a group and and letting people talk and and everybody had great inputs and uh and I I for one appreciate it especially you guys have done a nice job with it and now it's finally starting to sink in at least for my thick head and I I suppose you finished with your presentation at this point we are yes you are okay we're done super um so thank you very much and um we can uh I don't know that we have anything else to discuss as a committee uh specifically um yeah here assistant manag here um if I can address can you give us a report just on an update of what's going on uh around town as far as any additional improvements or anything like that um usually we get a report of what's the latest for instance on Elmyra around the um the the sure so um on almyra as you can see the um sidewalk has been completed partially um with Atlantic City Electric and the city also took on a little bit of the project as well to make sure that the sidewalk connects so while the con perfect yeah and and um Mr dri apologizes he's um not available right now but the uh sidewalk obviously now connects so like I said at electric was able to um we use utilize the same vendor and they were able to complete it fairly quickly out there how about uh Paving so that will be I don't I don't want to speak out of turn so I don't have an exact date on when that would be done um out there I know they're actively working on some um utility lines as we speak and so will that Paving um go from Broad to the bridge it stops at the bridge it stops at the bridge right that's how I understand yes okay and then does it go to the end up to Broad or does it go just to um Venice are you aware I'd have to look at the specific plans on it okay could you let us know on that sure absolutely um I don't know is there any other areas of that we need to know about group line yes we're all good all right I'll I'll entertain a motion to adjourn it's probably join make motion a second no one's going to jump forward before you actually conclude I just want to address something because it was brought to my attention about the Washington Street and maybe some comments that were made at the the council meeting um obviously the city's position is you know we'll look at any um calming measures you know as we feel are appropriate um obviously I think the number one priority and you can see it already is more enforcement more police presence out there on Washington Street Chief is aware there's more officers out there we're going to make sure that there's um the speed Radars are appropriately spaced and make sure that we're collecting that data and that they're working properly um I think there might have been some confusion in terms of people saying hey we're you know anti-pe bumps to answer the question if we're putting in one speed bump that's not going to work so we'd have to look at unfortunately a speed study to ensure that whatever calming measures we're going to be putting out there are not just shortsighted but would be for the long term so I just wanted to make sure that the committee understood kind of what the comments were because if you take a snippet of what I said it could be misconstrued as you know where or anti- something we're open to anything but if you're going to put in one speed bump that's not going to be effective right you know so you would have to look at various measures out there to ensure that it's again longterm not shortterm so were your comments Cherry Picked out of that discussion or maybe okay no and and it's totally understandable and Paul emailed me to say hey look we're going to do this Within the context of Safe Streets comprehensive plan exactly and and you know we're very fortunate uh Mr Dietrich is along with being city manager also the city engineer so his expertise is very important on this and I'm sure that hey like we said we're open to looking at whatever the measures are but we have to make sure that we're not shortsighted and we look at a a full longed project correct we we do understand that now perfect but I I just wanted I I commented to everyone via email to say hey look this could be taken out of context and and uh and people get the wrong impression about what what you guys were saying and what what is ultimately planned and and so um I have a favorite saying in life it's by George Bernard Shaw the greatest problem with communication is the illusion it has been accomplished that's a good one I'll end with that sounds good okay all right we're adjourned thank you thank you e e e e e e e e e e e for