e e I [Music] don't but all right Zach is here who do you want to see I see them I'd like to call the meeting the order this is a special public meeting uh on February 15th starting a little bit after 3:00 under open public meetings law the notice of this meeting was sent to the capap May star and wave capap May County planning heral and posted on the city website in the city uh in City Hall uh does any member have any belief that we are operating outside of the open Public's meeting act hearing none I will ask for a pledge allegiance to the flag I to flag of the United States of America and to the for stand na indivisible andice all Judy roll call please Mr Carol here Mr Becker here Mr Stevenson here Mr Testa here Mr hammerin looks like Miss bisagno and Miss Wilson stck are and this is an advisory review and gentlemen would you all introduce yourself please uh Paul Dietrich uh city manager and city engineer for Kate May City um Rob Conley from Robbie connley architect The Architects on the project I'm johnan also from Robbie Conley architect uh gentlemen you can go ahead and start your presentation to us just real quick um we appreciate you everyone taking the this opportunity I know you guys canceled your regularly scheduled meeting but we appreciate you guys coming here on a special meeting we're trying to bring this project back forward and uh get on a time frame so that we can receive your recommendation Smith to shipo uh to go through their process and and you know trying to be able to possibly uh put this out the bid in late summer to have a possible fall construction so that's that was why we kind of asked uh for you guys to come together today as opposed to waiting to your regular meeting in March um and just to help slow us down so we do appreciate uh doing this I know uh The Architects have spent a and chief Deacon has spent a lot of time already working with uh I know John and uh Warren and Corbin over the last year or so and and working on the plans I think uh we've got a a plan that has gone through a lot of the iterations and and hopefully we've got it to a point where it's something that you everyone can support and make a recommendation for us to go to the full HPC and I'll now turn it over to the Architects that have the everything I know the mayor he's joined us on the uh team's call here so if we have any questions but I I just wanted to pass it on is the mayor going to be part of your presentation I think he was not NE not directly head no so so if if if there's okay if if there's any direct questions I think that during the presentation and if I and I'm sure if we miss anything along the way you'll be reminded he'll he'll catch us up on if we've missed something along the way but hopefully we'll catch everything before that thank you um okay uh like Paul had said we've already really been working with uh the committee uh from the very beginning on the design of the building um different people I know Jake's a member of the task force um so we've tried to design the building based on what your wants are on the design of the building um and and work that in as we move forward um so basically I'll give you the the broad stroke and then let John uh desano get into some of the details um so basically what we're doing we're looking at a masonry constructed building uh brick on the outside and um basically go with the let's see if I can do this a red brick here similar to what we have at the firehouse which is a sample we've brought here the accents will be a black brick which is what we have here um and basically the the other portion is we're talking about right now is the roof um when we had the meeting two weeks ago it was suggested that we go to a uh Cedar Shake roof up there which is what we're showing on the drawings at this time um but we are still searching for a composite material slate roof um something that will be acceptable by the board and will actually look like slate and the main reason for that is because we really truly feel that a masonry building constructed in the 1890s would have probably had a slate roof on it now the cedar shakes shingle roof um so we're looking at that but we're trying to get actual samples and we want something that's going to actually look like a slate a lot of these do not and we don't want to put something on there that doesn't look like the true material we want to get as close to the real thing as possible if we could do the real thing we would but there's the cost of it and the cost of the waste and just trying to find somebody to install real slate on a building today is almost impossible if I can interrupt you for a second we've been through those searches ourselves trying to help applicants and we've had samples set to us and uh we really didn't find anything that we felt we could approve but I had you might have more look I had one several years ago when we were doing a police station in the City of Woodbury that looked like real slate I can't find that sample um I think I found that company and they're supposed to be dropping samples off to me on Monday um if I agree that it does actually look like slate then we will bring it down to the board but we won't make that change without everybody getting a chance bit a bit of concern or connection to how you're going to relate to to doing that final decision the application here is marked as conceptual which is a little strange for us with an advisory report because the ordinance requires you to submit and for us to deliver a report to the city um it's looks to me like there are a number of things including this quest for the Slate that might require our continued participation as you go through the design phase so so we might wind up delivering you a preliminary report but we might also have something else to say as a followup well way I look at it is it's a city project and it's the same thing as with the the firehouse um when we made some choices of materials in the firehouse uh during construction um they were of course put in front of members of the board to make sure that it would be acceptable um if we made any changes and even some of the things that we uh like for instance the siding on the building uh prior to us telling the contractor to go ahead with that siding we wanted to make sure that it was approved uh because this is a city building and of course we do want it to meet all of your uh requirements and and you know be be something that everybody can be on board with and this this is this is also interesting because you're you proposed new construction and you're talking about the substitute materials and that's in an area that we're really focused on I think as Tom just pointed out really focused on the availability and usability of substitute materials but now not on an older building but on a new constructed building admittedly in the historic district and next to Historic buildings but I think that may open up an opportunity for further consideration of really what we want is we want we understand this is a new building but we want it to look as authentic as we can without it looking like it was built then we want it to meet that that that flavor of the city and we want it to be contributing to the city so um and that's where we're at so so as soon as we do get materials that we are comfortable with um we will then share them with Paul and the mayor and if they and and councel and if they feel comfortable then we'll bring it in front of you also to make sure that you're comfortable also but in that it's a city project we're not really offering a certificate of appropriateness we're just an advisory position yes so I mean and at this point I know there's some time limits that they're concerned about and I believe it's just an approval of like the overall design and not the minutia if I'm correct yes so you could probably even start on a lot of aspects of this before you really have to finalize what single you're going to put on things like that ex exactly we've got time for that um but we do want to get this ball rolling because we have to get in front of the state and get their approval before we can move into bidding the project and and getting that we really want to move forward with all of that so that's why we're we're here today and that's why we've been working with the board the whole time just to make sure that you know we are giving you what you're looking for we sort of interrupt you here I'll let you continue with your presentation um really uh the the where we do have the siding materials on the on the building uh we're going to be using the same materials that we used on the firehouse uh the windows are going to be the same windows we used on the firehouse the doors are going to be the same doors we used on the firehouse with the exception of the overhead doors and we are looking at the overhead head doors at least the ones along the street side to be Cottage look Overhead Doors uh to give it a little bit more of a style and I believe we sent you samples of about what we're looking at there uh the ones on the back are probably going to be regular overhead doors um on the backside because you're not really going to see them from the street and the residents won't really see that that much um at at this point John I'm going to turn it over to you I think there's some details that you may want to go through and I know lighting fixtures and some of that we want to talk about um and that we've given you samples of uh we did submit as part of the packet some proposed lighting uh light fixtures brackets uh that we you know so far have looked at uh just to get back to the design here we we're going for you know this second empire style which is undoubtedly you know part of victoriana flavor of this is prevalent throughout Cap May and definitely within the immediate vicinity of this building you know you you see this type of detailing uh we do as Rob mentioned we want to have a brick building this is a city building it's a police station so we thought brick was appropriate um so if if you don't mind I'll just just give him the mic I'm sorry so we're looking at a base course and then a water table and thus far we've considered a modular brick which is a little larger than a standard brick just as the base to ground the building and then we would continue with the red brick that Robbie showed you with the double Soldier accent course running through in this black uh additionally we did these buildout Bays they were o they would overhang on the second floor and then below them just to complete the the thought back down to the ground we would go to some sort of a Flemish Bond using the same brick that would be below the bump out bays in these areas you know and then carrying straight up through into the roof these Dormers with the eyebrow roof uh we're looking at perhaps copper for the roofing material on that because it is a curved material copper is conducive to that shape uh and again continue with some of some of the Second Empire detailing with the iron grills you know we thought perhaps just on the tower would be appropriate we believe if we ran it across the entire uh top of top of the mansard it maybe come too busy I mean certainly we we looked your input on that detail uh yeah and then the brackets like I mentioned we would do dental brackets and then groupings of somewhat of a more decorative decorative bracket you know below the roof Eve we would have a freeze board below that a soldier course at the behest of uh Warren a couple weeks ago he asked if we could incorporate another Soldier course underneath the freeze uh and then additionally within the roof you know Warren had asked us to consider changing the pattern of the the shingle just as a decorative element running through that uh and if you walk out of this building and look across the street and look to your left there's you know the shingles do in fact have this this variation of shape is there is there anything here that you've seen that perhaps I didn't mention that you may have a question on I'm just trying to give you the 30,000 foot view more or less at this point I open it to questions from the board members absolutely sure okay okay and feel free to just jump back in something comes to your mind okay would anybody care to start I I always seem to be the guy since I start over here that we'll work our way from from from left to right um I overall comment um it with with one exception I'm going to say um I I think it's it's it's a nicely designed structure that that does does qualify as the junior brother of the firehouse consistent with with that type of architecture I I like the materials choices um I do like the the variations and particularly the way the brick variations are are being are being sought um if I have one reservation and I'm probably not going to be joined by my fellow Commissioners but if I have one reservation I would say that this building has one Tower too many and the reason I say one Tower too many is because when I go up Franklin Street from the firehouse through the sturdy savings through the Tower and the steeple we're about to put on the am Church to the two churches that are nearby it's just Tower tower Tower and and my my problem is I think we have a lot of height and too many Towers if if I were to design this building I would if you will eliminate the Second Empire Tower it's it seems would somebody tell me is that a 50 plus foot Tower is that we're talking because you didn't have anything beyond the third floor here so I kind of sused it up to about 50 52 feet something in that that's a pretty approximation yeah um again uh and this this is my personal view it's just it's not necessary to have a tower on on on this building it looks stately and important enough um and and I and I grant you that something could be done to emphasize the corner of St John and Lafayette and I think the tower is one way to do that but I would I would do something that was not as tall and not as prominent as as that Tower it's to me just I said one Tower too many um and and and that really is and well it's a big piece overall I think that the design is is one that is um is is very worthwhile and and worthy of of a new construction and just um we actually did look at that we did actually look at getting rid of the Tower and my personal opinion um when we looked at the building without the tower was to me it just looked like a rooming house a rooming house a rooming house or or pretty pretty fancy rooming house yes it didn't look to me like a a a city building um yeah I mean there are ways of making public buildings look public and I I grant you normally it's a grand staircase or something like that which you can't do anymore with handicap accessibility I knew barrier free but um so I actually I think we do have a copy when he when the chief got up to leave I knew exactly where he was you know it's it's always it's always the case that when you come here to this final thing uh other things have been said beforehand that we're that some of us are not aware of asked previous when we started talk about building and the design what if we didn't have the tower so iest you know the reason for the tower many reasons first it's the corner piece Corner sure I think completely lower try to look articulates that as a tower but without the height yeah that's the point I'm really making I think you you have a building um it is you know it's going to be situated on those small Lots at the corner of St John and Lafayette there's no doubt you want to emphasize the corner as you have by The Doors U and so it's a double in I as I say I would I would cap it lower than the than the large Tower you have and actually that's something we were just talking about maybe we'll take a look and see what we can do about keeping that Tower there but cutting down the height of it uh substantially I mean the the bottom of the tower really has to be above the roof for it to work but maybe we don't need that 10 foot of roof up there maybe we can cut that down a little bit and still make it look actually if you look at the John mccre house right there you can see it sort of does that yes it gets you that height but not the extra segment exactly so we might be able to to do something with that we will definitely study that and take a look at it would be something that with respect to us delivering an advisory report um whether my colleagues would agree with or not I would ask that an advisory report ask for consideration for reduction or redesign of the Tower of the Tower of the tower I mean it's it seems to me that you've you've been through it maybe without one and maybe with something a little smaller so it's not that hard maybe we can find something in the middle that that works and other than that I I we can definitely take a look at I I think that uh the the only other questions I would have had were not to this conceptual side it would be um other more detailed things we would see if we had excuse me if we had had a site plan for example in front of us along with Landscaping plant and location of HVAC and backup generators and things like that I can tell you the the HVAC all the HVAC equipment that would typically be on the ground will actually be up on the roof in this area and will be screened with probably lattice work up there um and this area up here will actually be a usable deck area for the police so so it would seem from your you know from your plans and um backup generators backup generator that we're still working on um there will definitely be a backup generator uh we're working with the uh City's engineer on where that's going to be able to well actually well no should the other City Engineers this there really because of there are some limitations As you move into uh the parking area beyond that uh the containment area within the um the old jcpnl uh has a the has a wall containment they call it the bathtub where the pollution control containment yeah structural in there so most likely the generator is going to be tucked closer to the building and if you look on the right side elevation if you see the man door there's two I'll call windows to the right of that windows they're windows but they're not so that's on the East the East Side the right the right profile it's on the opposite not on the street not on the St John's Street side opposite probably the generator might fit right within that area close up to the building and it's probably say a gratuitous comment but it's a generator and it's the police department so it ought to be secure right yes yes so it'll probably have some sort of a fence enclosure around it with Landscaping uh we definitely want to one of our thoughts earlier was to actually put it in a separate like building like they do in Williamsburg etc but because of that Basin we can't really do that yeah so we're going to probably keep it up close to the building and try to screen it as much as we can with Landscaping fencing uh so it doesn't detract from yeah the look of the building generally and and and I know we're here and I I just had a question for Paul for the city manager if if you would uh just update us please I I mean obviously you're here for conceptual approval you're you're ready to move in terms of going out for bids and getting this moving along would you just update us on the status of the par of the of the Lots no of the of all permissions have been secured in terms of using the Lots there's there's two sets of permissions that we're looking at one is the um land diversion with Green Acres so there's some Green Acres Parcels uh we have received preliminary approval from the d uh for that um there's we have to submit some final we have to submit a final survey uh a final appraisal and some title documentation and then it can go to the final submission to get uh the the green Acres submission uh the other is uh the coordination with jcpnl and HUD and the school and I mean the housing authority and just get we understand that they're in that last step of getting that signed off so those will be hurdles that obviously we're trying to move things in parallel and that's where we were kind of waiting you know we've been holding off on bringing this back until we knew exactly where some of those were and we feel that we're in a parallel course that by the time we're ready to go out to bid we'll have you know you before we go out to bid we need the the Green Acres diversion completed we need the jcpnl when you say the Green Acres D you mean the swap the swap the swap yes and if I'm understanding you correctly Paul you're saying you don't see that they're really shall we say important impediments or substantial impediments to getting that and that's why we were waiting to to know all of that before we started this process back moving forward good um and because we feel that we're on a parallel track to be able to have you know the shipo approval make sure the Greenacres Diversion the land Swap and the jcpnl all worked out by summertime so that we can go out to bid and and obviously we have to have all three of those things I think it's very helpful because it's really difficult to build a building on which you don't have permission to BU to do it but but we need those but we have and that's kind of where that's why the Lafayette Street Park kind of had stopped because it's waiting on the same thing but you know just in parallel we've we've got the engineer working on the final permitting plans to submit for a cafer permit for the park we don't need a caer permit for the police station that's why we can kind of move forward with the police station in advance of the park because the park has to wait for the cafer permit the police station doesn't so that's that'll be that's starting to move in the same parallel path thank you for the update very helpful if if that hope that it does yeah and so as long as everything goes according to plan we should be in good shape that's why you didn't see this last summer because we we didn't know where we were D sure okay so as as as Jim anticipated some of us are quite supportive of the tower I'm one of those um I do see that maybe lowering it a bit might be a way to align around as Steve said I'm sorry as Kevin said for example the John mccu house is a great example right so actually we've had a number of discussions thank you for coming and seeing us in our reviews on Tuesday Mornings to take a look at this I think this maybe the third or fourth iteration I've personally seen and one of the big I'd say discussions has been around the roofing material so I decided to launch a little uh unscientific but um personal uh research project so I spent several hours on the internet researching public buildings in the United States that were Second Empire with mansard roofs and looking at what makes most sense a wood shingle roof or a slate roof I was really surprised by the results of my research I found 30 public and I was looking only at buildings that were public buildings that were made of masonry because this is clearly a masonry building for all kinds of durability reasons and all that I was surprised by the results all 30 of them had slate roofs every one of them yes now of those of those 30 20 were made of brick and 11 of those buildings were either cour houses or City Halls throughout a number of states I was really surprised by that but then I started to think all right so slate of course right but really expensive a challenge to maintain you'll probably break a couple every season um my my first project working in construction was to repair a 19 or 1884 um slate roof and it is a real technical craftsmanship challenge so I began to do some research then about um using substitute materials based upon the Secretary of interior standards and our own standards that we just published here in Kate May so there's a brief a 24-page brief that the Secretary of interior published just this past year updated it that talks about substitute materials and the first comment that I'd like to make from this say substitute materials that closely match quoting the visual and physical properties of historic materials can be successfully used on many Rehabilitation projects in ways that are consistent with the standards but this is not a rehabilitation project this is new construction so a little bit later on it says the standards purposefully allow for the use of substitute materials when the use of original materials is not reasonably possible such as in consideration of Economic and Technical feasibility or in new construction so there's clearly a a I would say a purposeful pathway designed by the Secretary of interior standards to allow in certain cases substitute materials so now let's look at what our local standards say which were just published last year on page 21 for non-contributing properties which this would be this is in the section on Roofing roof materials should be compatible with the historic materials of the historic district and reinforce its architectural character composite or imitative roofing materials may be appropriate so then I continued my little research project and tried to look at what were the best available imitation slate roof materials being currently manufactured in the United States I found six of them three of them appear I I don't want to name them I don't think that would be appropriate three of them in particular seemed extraordinarily real to me in terms of their imitative well I'm using contradictory terms here they seemed authentic even though they were imitative and the variation in the color starts to be appealing when we look at what you guys are presenting most recently which is the first time I've seen it is the different polychrome band in the roofing I'm not I'm not certain whether you're looking at a different texture or a different color this would be a different texture here different geometry so maybe a scallop as opposed to yeah okay yeah these materials I think would lend themselves very much to that kind of uh aesthetic detailing so I think what I'm trying to say is that I don't think we can make any decision on this today because I would strongly recommend that we get some samples from a few maybe two or three of these more higher quality imitation slate materials compare them to some real slate and also remember that they're going to be up three and a half stories so it's not like we can touch them and these this the standard I'm sorry the uh publication 16 about substitute materials from the Secretary of interior standards talk quite a bit about the degree to which the appropriateness is also dependent upon proximity to being able to physically touch them which we won't be able to because they'll be up four story so with all that said um I'm really looking forward to seeing how we align around what these roof materials ought to be because other than that I think you've done a great job thank you thank you thank you thanks John Jack um just that you know our committee our Police Department committee has gone over this at nauseum and uh we believe this is a great design additionally our chairman and the review Comm committee John have had quite a few meetings regarding this building and the consensus seems that it seems to be good so I would agree with those groups Kev i' just like to mention two things I hope Street Street should be a part of the planning of the city to continue to use that that post especially construction comes into play and also think it's consistent with what's been really proposed to the Frankl and I mean we are only doing the building um the the city has an engineer that's doing the that but I agree with you and I'm hopeful that they're doing the same and as you can see by the cut sheets that we gave you for the lights we're putting on the building we're really trying to keep in that that flavor you know I think one of the things that just I do have to say I did kind like this piece right here the middle one and I don't know if you remember of York City that's half the old half the old precincts in New York have have a globe let say police on them posing them right here on the corner of the building and uh we we did the same thing in the City of Woodbury we took an old bank and turned that into their police station we did the same thing with those with the globes that say police on that it would be a good idea to know that you were actually passing a police station right so other than being you know reading the sign you can actually see it there and it and it lets you know that um and yes I think you're talking about like the street lights um and that's I I expect them to be matching that and what we're putting on the building we think is going to complement that it's not it's not the exact same thing but we think they'll complement that style so ones that are the street and I'm pretty sure that's what they have in mind but I'm sure Paul will make sure that happens out outlying the site itself um is there are there plans for traffic control um a light or something at St John and lafette stop it doesn't it doesn't warrant uh another traffic light at that location so the so so it's still going to be stop control coming at it difficulty yes coming out they do have the modification for the right-and turn lane on yeah um I believe that's onto St John's onto St John on Lafayette on Lafayette yes the county which is the county was working on that I believe they've talked I've I've talked about it I think I've seen the plan I can't but I can't put my fingers back on it the contractor is is looking for it so I'm trying the the big problem and I didn't want it to interfere with police vehicles but big problem always has been getting out of St John onela yet well luckily the police vehicles have lights on top and they they stop traffic pretty good for them uh Poli not not if it's all blocked up in front of them Paul as as as as some streets in town would indicate yeah that's not going to stop well let me just add a few comments as well um I think youve you've learned a lot of different opinions here but uh they're coming together um your maner roof is rather large compared to the typical Manser roof that looks like it's maybe 23 of the of normal width of a room below it um is your third floor have extra high ceilings no in the in the all reasoning behind mansard is get that additional story in within the roof in this case the city is desirous down the road of installing solar panels on the roof so we brought the outside of that up as a parit so that the solar panels can be hidden behind that parit and not seen okay because we we know the HPC that's not like the aesthetic of solar panels that yeah absolutely yes this is a real third story but but there's a par hide the solar enough to hide enough to hide panels solar panels if and when the city puts the solar panels up there you're not going to see them from the street yeah so yeah would the solar panels be part of the whole construction project probably not no that would be something that would do later okay um discussion on the tower uh I remember visiting a a wonderful little town in Italy their bragging right was they had more Towers per size of the Town than any other town in Italy like 13 of them I can't remember the name of the town but it was yes that I could make up any number biggest was all the tow so frankly I I kind of like the idea of having these towers and of course towers and fire you know watching out for fires uh was almost like Towers in old light life saving stations you know you wanted to be able to get up because uh seeing is an important part of it so I I think that's if it was a little bit lower I think that would be fine uh the what we call cresting on the top of it uh would be a nice touch and you know having the the high pieces on the end is appropriate I would also agree that having cresting all the way around the building would really not be a good ide that'd be an Overkill uh without that Tower to me the building looks like uh an inexpensive uh you know uh lazy addition to the town and uh and the Tower and the things you're doing make it look I know it's a police station but we would prefer that it didn't really try to look like a police station because uh we're proud of our police but fortunately you know we we are a very safe town and proud of it so I I would like to see you stick with the tower and probably you've been through a lot of these things already discussing for us uh I think uh I think you might find still a majority opinion to have the tower but may reduce it a little bit and we'll definitely go to look at that and see what we can do so those are uh my comments do you have more questions for us I do from what you've been hearing I I'll let you go first Chief and then I I do have a couple questions for Mr T certainly I appreciate that cander um first and foremost I want to thank uh this HBC uh for allowing us the time to sit here um and over the last few months year so so we've been kind of poking into to certain meetings when Warren and John sit here and I've been showing them the ideas um at the permission of the mayor and secondly I also like to thank city council and the mayor for allowing us to step forward early enough to be prepared for you now um this project when I first met with the mayor in 2021 his first answer to me or promise to me was that we would work on this police dep uh Department we had just come out of the referendum with the fire department and the police department being separated uh by a third um uh I guess referendum if you want say um and initially the police department members we were disappointed however my message to them at that time was Stand By and stand down there's no reason for us to get upset this process will happen there's a reason for everything um and I thought that the parking here would be just obnoxious with us and the fire department and the citizens coming here so it actually was a godsent that it was taken the opposite way hating to spend more money than we need to cuz you're buying two generators you're buying two sets of air conditioning for buildings that could be combined but they just wouldn't work on this footprint um the residents spoke and we listened and I think that was the most important part because they're the ones that are paying for it um I wouldn't want to put something on a on a spot that just was Overkill and and just took away from this corner or these Corners so um initially like I said we were disappointed however I think listening and waiting and being patient was The Virtue and I think that was important for the police department to be respectful of the residents and the members of council who made that decision so we appreciate that secondly we we appreciate the time that it's taken and the money and energy this this these conversations with these gentlemen at Robbie Conley's architect are not cheap um and but it the mayor allowed us to enter in here we originally started with u Mr Basco and Mr v um and then entering with Mr Dietrich which has also been a breath of fresh air because coming from an engineer side of things uh he allowed me to look at it differently he just told me to step back and look at this differently um and you understand that we're coming from two homes this Police Department is is where I started and where I most likely would end my career but we second home was in West Kate May so I have me also being Italian like John um in that realm we we like to have our family together so it's been very hard from an Administration standpoint from uh past Chiefs cap You Know Chief Sheen um Chief Santino Chief Marino it having your F half your family on one side of the town and the other half here just you know interacting with them daily has been difficult this building this transition will allow us to enter back into that homely feeling and have all of our family in one home and all of our team members it will allow whomever the chief is past me Beyond me to to interact and be successful in daily operations um when we have major events we're all in one place we can muster we can Corral um and we can gather and and protect this city the way it's supposed to be this brick building is a staple it's going to be the you know the first thing people see before they see the library the firehouse the am Church the harri tub Museum you know this this along with the park and along with the um the walking trails is going to be an a beautiful site once it's done um and the one thing that the mayor and and this um task force um they allowed me the ability to just kind of flow with it they gave me John gave me a blank slate and said here make something work out of this but he gave me some Direction but the one thing that this committee this task force wanted was your approval and I don't I don't say that just because I'm sitting in front of you that was first and foremost in our minds that this building cannot go forward without you okay you are the historians of this community I don't know enough okay you gentlemen have forgotten more than I know respectfully so when you guys put that energy in here and if you see what you see here it's because we listen to you and we knew these gentlemen knew what you were going to ask for that's why it looks the way it is I did ask for the second rendering of the of the building without the tower um because the first I was like and it wasn't nothing more than a cost savings because we looked at the money I'm like all right where where can I cut costs that it could protect the residents and not have to spend so much money that's not going to cost a lot of money it's going to cost some but it does anchor that corner respectfully James Mr Testa I don't disagree with you but I think it will I'm not anti- Tower no I know I know I just thought a big tower absolutely I like I said I think you know after I looked at the rendering without it then I looked back at it that looks like a cheap hotel just like Mr Carol would say it does not lend appreciation to the corner and to the time period that you gentlemen want want this building to be built upon and you know the inside of this building will be modern as I can make it the outside will look like it was there forever and I think you know I I think that's the important part that Kate May does not change in you know it's a big building trust me and I before we even step forward I stepped out and spoke with the neighbors who live in that area I spoke with the families that live in Broad Street Court and they were very appreciative that we wanted to move there they you know obviously change is not always good but they weren't against it in a in a sense um they the one thing that they did ask is for that area Up on the Roof that community area that we can invite the community invite members of the public to come up and have an outside event with us or meet with us and look over The Meadows look over the walking trails look over the playground um you know during the you know we we have nine 10 months of good weather here you know um there was weeks in weeks in December that it was you know in the 50s and 60s and we're good um when we were speaking about the traffic pattern and the flow of that area there in a little bit before Mr dietrich's time we did meet with the County and the mayor and the other engineer um did discuss that turning lane because it's it's very hard to get out or to get into St John's when the traffic's you know dinner time in this town coming into town is very difficult and that turning lane will allow that alleviation it does not at the current moment allow the alleviation from St John's onto Lafayette Street but uh if I'm remembering correctly from my notes and my conversations with the mayor and um with Mr Church they are going to be wiring underneath of that area there before we go put Paving on there for a possible light so if the engineers uh and the studies that we're doing if the Mr Dietrich says hey we need a light there it's going to be pre-wired if I'm correct from the the information that I have pre-wired for that event so you don't want to bundle a bunch of traffic lights up but we'll be prepared for it if we need to add that instead of ripping the road up that we'll have a moratorium on it that you can't rip it up for five or so years so again I appreciate your time with this because this building is going to outlast all of us in this room um you know and I I know that it's important for the city to get it right because you only have one opportunity to do it right the fire department had its bumbles and we had a couple issues there but it it it came together but what I learned from that was and respectfully I learned from some of the mistakes that were made on that project and I want to try to fix them and move forward I've had that direct conversation with with the manager and he's still giv me Specific Instructions just pay attention to detail and just just don't overthink it just make it work so again I appreciate all of your time for being here um the mayor if he has any questions he'll chime in and John I apologize for stepping in front of you okay no problem um the only thing that I have is Mr testy you had said that you did have some comments about more detailed items um since we're here if you don't mind bringing them up I'd like to note them now so we can well it looks to me like we're going to be having an ongoing discussion as things get filled in I mean our our objective here will be to try and move this along so our our usual way of proceeding is to give go forward with an advisory report which the city then uses in which we make the suggestions it sounds like you'll probably be back and and If This Were a um a hearing um a private hearing we would have had detailed things like detailed site plans um Landscaping plans those those kinds of things which will be generated in the future I suspect that we'll see that as the project moves forward that that's what I was referring to yeah the stuff that you would normally supply to the Commission in connection with a private application and and I assume that they'll come in front once uh they're they're work this this looks like it's going to be a pretty organic process of once we have and those these deals are being more brought because they're working on them with the site plan of the park right that'll probably kind of come together as we get ready to submit for the shipo and cafer application on the parks you'll kind of get I'll say the site features when we move that forward no problem yeah that's that's what we would be looking for and and and regarding the street skate thing I think we will try to you know the streetcape especially St John and making the corner to the parking lot to the same streetcape that we're looking like that we designed on Franklin Street and how we came down Washington with you know we'll probably try to tie some of that in not so much on lafette but definitely on on St John because can't do too much on L yet because that's the County's domain but we'll definitely try to tie some brick and and the street lights that we can down St John to have that look uh we can open this to the public if there's anybody in the public that did come wanting to make a [Music] comment remember how this works to the public hello um my name is RZ Johnson I live on Lafayette Street and um these renderings look absolutely beautiful but the only thing I do agree with Mr Tesa um as an just an ordinary resident that I'm speaking for myself it seems as though the tower is definitely disproportionate to the size of the building um the police chief mentioned a homie uh use the word homie I don't find anything um wrong with something that doesn't look you know super auspicious or like here I am um sometimes buildings that are kind of blend in with with everything um can be just as beautiful as something with a very tall Spire um I love the idea of the globe that says police I think that's very uh throwback in time um so that's all I have to say thank you and thank you for all the work that you do thank you thank you Ros make sure you take a look sorry Mr Carol but take take a look at the other rendering without it kind of get your eyes on that when you get time before you leave and just kind of look at how it might take your might I understand exactly what you're saying but it might take you uh back higher isn't always better for me um actually from where I live if you can believe it I can enjoy the Kate May Point Lighthouse I can see it it takes me it takes 13 seconds for it to go around and from where I live I can see the Kate May Lighthouse um and of course things have to be as tall as as they need to be I love the idea of that open space in the back it's very community-minded very um environmentally beautiful um but it's just the idea that do we always have to make things so Grand so over the toop because most people if you can believe it aren't over the toop you know most people just love a community that they're proud of with a beautiful new police station but to me it definitely does doesn't have to be with a tall tower and you know a shorter Tower you know maybe that's okay so I've taken up enough of your time thank you thank you Ross I just have a quick question um um please Nate yeah even though we know who you are I wasn't sure I didn't Stacy Shan uh Columbia Avenue my question is on the height of this building is this height of building um against our our standards on the height of what building should be are we going is it larger than what a normal person would be able to build uh the height in that area I believe is 35 ft high but that does not apply to roof elements and ornaments uh and you know the tower would really just be considered not the whole height of the building but something that just gives it anchoring the corner the things have been brought out and I'm not really concerned about the height of the tower because like you're saying it's just like orental or something like that but the building itself with the roof is that going to be higher than is allowed in that area uh the towers I think you said it was going to be 50 feet above ground actually the the the tower on the building known as the ABY the John mccre house is actually about 60 plus feet high so this is this is not even as tall as but I'm not talking about the tower I'm just talking about the building height itself not including the tower we should have put some I'm trying to go with my I do not I'm trying to go with my memory and I believe us so we're we're probably close to 40t so for and what is the height for that area 40t the is 35 right is what you just said so that that's a zoning issue depending upon what zone this is in and what building type it is so that's not the hpc's purview that's zoning so I can't really answer that question okay that's fine thank you anybody else from the public I will close the public s j we've already there used to be 72 Towers in that town I will close the public portion then I think the issues that have come up and this will be put into a motion and you also will get a copy of our report uh uh preliminary approval for a uh uh consideration for for application and uh so we're talking about the the height of the Tower the existence of the tower uh we're talking about the um the roof materials which is a real big one and we're also talking about lighting fixtures that are surrounding it so those will go into ours would somebody since you always make me make these motions yeah um I I'll make a motion that the discuss the features that Tom just mentioned the roofing materials um the lighting uh and the nature of the of the height of a tower of of and and its design um in a in a way that may be different from what we see in the plan is presented those would be the three points we would cover in The Advisory opinion advisory report I'll second that motion motion's been moved in second any discussion on the motion roll call please motion by Mr Tesa seconded by Mr Becker Mr Carol yes Mr Becker yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr Testa yes Mr hammerin yes thank you the motion passes unanimously uh we will be uh I I'll be working on that report and we'll make sure that you get copies of it as well as well as the city manager in the city okay well thank you very much for your time appreciate your time appreciate you coming out here for the special meeting uh and to help us move this forward so look forward to getting this finished and okay seeing you all out there at the ribon thank you thank you is there any other business to come before the board today we can't motion to adjourn so move second second all in favor I I thank thank you everybody thank thank you thank you