##VIDEO ID:qt6Kj9HBrsA## e e e e everybody is great e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e to the of the United States of America to the stand one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all amen okay we promis a short meeting today and we'll have one there's only three issues that we need to touch base with the first of them is uh the discussion of surplus and debt and what a recommendation is that we could make with regard to each of those issues I sent around that document which was called Surplus and debt findings we briefly discussed this at our last meeting and um let's just review it for the record so we know what we're talking about um you all have that document that uh sent you the hard copy y okay all right the first the first chart of the finding shows that Surplus has grown significantly since 2016 when it was about $4 million it's currently uh approaching $15 million at during that same period of time there has been a consistent growth in in uh both the Surplus and The Debt Service so we are uh accumulating surplus funds while we are also accumulating increases in debt the source of these new Sur these new surplus revenue is this new revenues and a pattern and a practice of conservative Revenue estimates the new revenues include property tax occupancy tax meranti fees and parking meter fees which coincidentally is uh are rather the group of new revenues that MTR has been working on since it began and most of those revenues have come from recommendations that the council has accepted from the MTR committee if we look at new revenues during that period of time miscellaneous revenues which include things like uh and merant and has grown significantly from uh 3.8 million to about 6.8 million oh hello Hi how are you sorry it's okay I didn't I didn't realize you came was requir interest and property taxes which have significantly increased because of uh new ratables uh being added to the city's what did you I'm sorry was the third one you said what's that you me you know oygen tax parking what was the third one you mentioned uh parking meters meranti fees and occupancy taxes were the three major drivers of three major drivers of the miscellaneous Revenue category yeah property taxes have gone up because there's been a lot of homes sold and reassessed at higher rates and while the property tax rate has not changed over the last four years the amounts uh upon which that rate is applied have generated increases in property tax revenues what's the process for that if I could ask I mean in terms of getting out there right away for the I mean do we feel that it's a timely reassessment that takes place yeah yeah there there there there's a timely reassessment the tax assessor is yeah he usually goes out right away yeah they they go right on the book right away yeah and and that's that's pretty much a a real time number every year uh which by the way uh creates the need to keep current our tax rate profile which which we have is there something we said Mor okay what was I saying I was saying that U the tax rates U are almost immediately transferred into a currency so that so that what we see as revenue is an actual Revenue but that also means we need to keep the Ci's updated record of property values up up to speed to that that only gets readjusted every year so that printout you see and the print out we use to calculate uh estimates and things like that sometimes is is as much as 12 to 15 months behind the time and we still don't have a date on on the big the big re the big no no that is uh big boom that's moving very slowly and uh it's being impeded by a couple of factors one of which which is every city every town in K May needs needs a reassessment because they're way below the the director's standard and there aren't very many companies which actually do that uh so and then the other thing is it can happen as a result of one of three things either the the state uh tax office uh demands it the county orders it or the city May in fact do it uh on their own volition yeah yes but the tax assessor does officially report to the County tax assessor so they're usually the individual who will drive right the the direction and that's how our local reassessments now we we assess uh we assess taxes on a on a set value right which is which is determined it hasn't been determined since 2009 I think but you're not expecting the city to proactively do this you're going to County no because for one thing the and it it costs a lot of money it's going to cost a lot of money and it's something the council needs to decide whether or not they actually even want to pursue it independent of so right now we're working on a digital tax map um and I believe that that was at a cost of about just uh 200,000 just to get that done right so the work that um Dennis is discussing is um probably well over the half million amount because of the the level of detail that is needed so by the city yeah yes yeah the city we don't get any money from the state or would that affect our what we pay for the Regional School right yes it will uh yeah going to throw that way up yeah it'll it'll it'll throw that way up yeah yeah now the other thing too about that tax rate is that while we're on the standard uh Val valuation that we we calculate every 10 12 years the county is on a different system they do it every year so they have a real time assessment of property values that they use to calculate County taxes and that's why that's why when folks say my ta how come my taxes are going up if our tax rate is stable for four years the answer to that is we're only one of four components of your tax yeah the county tax the other the County taxes the school taxes and the regional taxes are all going up and two of them are using a different formula than we use so that's where we get property tax increases even though we're not raising our tax rate at all and it's one of those big increases over the last years so is the all those houses off of Pittsburgh Avenue yes huge ratables right huge yeah hu huge ratables and and uh I think that project is only half done yeah yeah I think they well the thing is I I don't think they can tax until they get a certificate of occupy right right that's most of them have and there well yeah there's some that still don't there's a a zoning meeting at six o'clock that I might attend today about one of them you can stay right here I'll bring you hot dog all right so our property taxes are going up significantly and and these two sources of revenue have been the the essential main driver for two things one keeping the tax rate stable and two generating a a a huge $14 million surplus and the next chart that we is is a sort of a line or a linear comparison of how these things are going up and you can see that that um the Surplus and proper tax pardon me the miscellaneous revenue and the property tax are a uh a significant timeline it's almost incredible isn't it new revenues show that the primary sources of new revenues from 2008 to 2023 are the hotel room tax the parking and the parking meters those those two charts are very illustrative of of where the the new revenues come from and the other driving factor with the Surplus is a general a general unstated unofficial policy of conservative Revenue estimates uh for four reasons uh and there and they're all legitimate reasons for why you want to generate a surplus uh people call it rainy day fund yeah everybody's home budget needs this kind of a cushion in case something comes up that you don't realize you had to pay for some extraordinary anticipated expense and these conservative revenues basically are are a hedge against unanticipated costs uh variable spending patterns a a routine cushion rainy day fund and the other the other reason why we do it is because frankly that's the way we've always done it and and in a in a small town like Cape May not not the K May is anything special in this regard every town functions basically on a on a that's the way we've always done it mentality because that's the way we've always done it now when we look at the budgets for the last six years we find that the pattern of actual Revenue versus anticipated revenue is a very significant generator of surplus uh that chart shows pretty clearly that since 2018 we have pegged Revenue at a very low rate compared to what we actually get from revenue and that's a function of the fact that Cape May is is a pretty viable and productive place where Commerce takes place and most of our Revenue as we know from previous studies of this committee most of our Revenue uh is generated from sources other than property tax so we rely very heavily on our commercial sector to generate Revenue that helps us run this budget at a at a no tax increase function but and it does have happen regularly over time and that chart shows it still impressive that we didn't do worse during Co the first year of Co yeah yeah it is it it really is and there was a sort of a Confluence between between uh A reduced commercial flow and increase in what what the city has done in terms of occupancy tax and right and those got so it sort of it's it floated up very nicely we had a a decrease in Revenue from traditional sources which was offset by an increase in revenue from new sources so it it worked out pretty nicely at for that covid environment uh okay typically over time this this chart just shows that since 2018 we've actually exceeded Revenue by these percentages every year it's somewhere between 9 and 19% uh more uh more currently it's between between 15 and 19% any estimate for 2024 uh not yet not yet because we really we really don't all we have would be the revenue estimates in the in the in the new budget uh we can get pretty soon I guess more a spreadsheet of revenue generated in 24 we can get that soon see there's not an analysis mid year like a mid Kevin reports I'm sorry Kevin reports routinely on where things might stand in um any one of the utilities and the general fund um and everything is tracking you know again um ahead of budget um but you know uh usually they wait until sure all the bill February at least to make sure that any unencumbered expenses uh have been identified come in they've been booked um that there's no lags in Project cost or expenses or things of that nature and that and that's the document that we generally typically use to to do this kind of analysis it I mean we're not interested in monthly tracking of Revenue over the course of a fiscal year but no we would by by February there should be a sense of where 24 um came in yeah but preliminarily 24 looks like a pretty a pretty fat year that pretty here now moving on to the other aspect of this discussion of the the debt profile of the city uh Mor could you I know Kevin gave a summary of our debt and a couple of meetings back uh do you recall that I recall it I I will I won't say that I remember specific details so I I had asked him to give us that for this meeting but we didn't get it but it it was a report that he had made to uh a couple of months back on on Deb the normal schedule then we've received yeah I know what you're referencing Dennis yeah um well our debt just generally our debt exists in three different areas the general fund the water insur utility and the Beach utility that each maintain their own debt schedule and The Debt Service includes obviously the principle of the interest now just looking at the general fund debt from 2019 to 2024 there's been an increase in the debt uh load uh from two $2.8 million to 4.8 million dollar it's not quite half obviously but it's close it's it's about a 40% increase in the in The Debt Service which means we're incurring more debt uh over time and it's about a 47% increase this is the number here from 2016 to 20 23 there's been a 47.8% increase in The Debt Service portion of the budget and if you're looking at the federal government lately uh with all these discussions about uh the uh the debt the national debt it what what did it does anybody recall what that was uh 36 trillion or something trillion and and it's yeah and it's something like uh 40% of the the the total federal appropriation yeah is is Debt Service yeah no that's not not to be proud of that there's nothing to be proud of for that and and to the extent that uh we don't want Kate May to be in same situation sure the rising portion the rising percentage of debt service to the full budget is something that needs to be looked at we could call a musk huh I said we could call in musk if it was that's right call in musk all right now uh if if you take a look at if you take a look at the debt load and forget the principle for a minute the the the debt load of all three of our sources of debt general fund and the two utilities we're paying $7.1 million every year out of taxes to pay just for the interest for their debt now uh Leon's made reports about this and and our you know we're we're getting we're getting good interest rates we've moved our debt around we've reduced that number uh and and that's good but the reality is if you're looking at our total budget and you're looking at $7.1 million every year just to have the debt is is something we I think need to discuss with the council 7.1 million out of what is the council total well the total debt service is 42 Mill no I'm sorry What's the total B annual budget uh well our total annual budget for all three our utilities is about 28 million okay the general fund is got like 22 and the these sheets here uh these are all just The Debt Service schedules for each of the uh each of the uh that Services now if you look at the municipal research and Services Center which publishes information and technical assistance for municipal governments and fiscal Affairs within Municipal governments it's operated by the government Finance Officers Association that they have a list of best practices they and one of their best practices is is uh addressing the the nature and need for a surplus fund they recommend in their best practices that a minimum fund balance for the general fund should be no less than what will meet the average cash flow needs of your entity typically you should have no less than 60 days or 16% of your operating expenditures for the general fund and 45 days for a Utility Fund now if that's true uh Cape May's Surplus is significantly higher than two months worth of expenditures significantly higher how how many months is it uh it for how many months would we we be able yeah we'd be able to run for about a year okay that's probably too much yeah are the recommendations we get in my office are two to six months yeah that then that's actually this is what they're talking about here this is two the minimum minimum is two months if you get in trouble for some reason minimum two months yeah but that doesn't include capital right it just includes operating yeah yeah only because there have been instances when we've had to utilize um money for emergency Appropriations for Capital Investments uh yeah it doesn't happen that often but yeah there have been occasions for that that that is not a typical occurrence right okay yeah Steve has quit [Laughter] see okay now if you look at if you look at the ratio of this is a very interesting chart actually because if you look at this chart which discusses the ratio of surplus to Appropriations you can see clearly that that the ratio that we we are maintaining approximately 60% uh a figure which represents 60% of our total appropriation just just in our Surplus account and that's what that will give us the Year we're talking about right yeah but what but what does the gfoa say about the appropriate debt that you should hold well we'll get to that because we're talking about I think you have to look at both yeah I know that's why we're getting to that okay now right yeah now the ratio well especially in a town that is putting so much money into infrastructure that for many years did not have that yeah did not have that investment so I mean you know we we we have done in the past couple of years and are on track to do a number of very large uh infrastructure projects yeah and there's two there there are two uh variables that work right there one of them is in fact uh our debt load but the other is our AB ility to get significant numbers of Grants which help us which help us immensely when we do capital projects and really if we didn't have that Grant access and success we wouldn't be a we'd be either way into debt or we wouldn't be doing it yeah um and the other piece of it when I read the um the other attachment that you sent Dennis on the financial sort of the study group the study group I mean one of the things that it highlights it was the fact that when you're looking at these types of projects and you're getting into them that you have access to those dollars and some of the environmental conditions and I'm using that term very Loosely changes in policy changes in lawmakers changes in availability of funds you could commit to a project and then find that you don't have you know the access to it and so abely absolutely because because it's one they're outside of your control it's one thing to say you can apply for a big Grant and it's another thing to say that you can actually run through that process and get that big Grant and and other other priorities incur in in in the granting agency's agenda so that money is is dangled in front of us we start a project and then we can't finish it because the grant Cuts back uh and the other thing too about the grant thing is that uh is that when we apply for a grant uh we only know what we'd like to have we don't know what we're actually going to get yeah we don't ring so if we if we and and this is jules's issue constantly uh if we we we really can't be comfortable with costing out a project uh too far in advance of of getting the check from somebody uh because we're never going to be able to we either are going to have to spend local money to fill the gap or we're not going to be able to do the project yeah but anyway the ratio denn if I could clarify something um the chart that we were just looking at the 60% you said equates to a year that would that would come to about a Year's worth of of expenditures in the it wouldn't be seven months uh no no it'll be more it would be in the G just just in the general fund now the utilities oh is that this includes the utilities yeah this yeah yeah um okay but I want you to see this chart because this really is one of the situations that we need to address going forward with with a recommendation and the recommendation uh one of the other recommendations is that and this is in the interest of transparency and and all of the things that that we think are important about how the government runs itself one of the other recommendations is from the Goa gfoa is that you have a formal policy adopted on how you deal with Sur was that makes sense uh because that that goes a long way to saying we're not flying by the seat of repentance we know what we're doing and and if and if the city can and we don't have one which which is the next uh next couple sections uh we don't have one of these policies uh and and so we're always going to be uh in the situation in which we're going to have to uh make something up as you go along or change our acting policy from year to year which which breeds a sense of inconsistency it also breeds a sense of not transparency or untransparent or opak andess whatever word you want to use so I I would recommend that the the MTR with respect to this whole situation of surplus uh uh I would recommend to the city that we adopt a formal ordinance which which describes and explains the city's policy on the use of surplus yeah now uh that policy should include uh when these surpluses can and should be used which is which is actually a good idea in terms of transparency and the other issue of the policy is how is it going to be replenished once it's used how do you how how do you fill that Surplus and what's the appropriate level that you're maintaining in your Surplus do you is it going to be 60 days is it going to be 30 days it's going to be 90 days how many how much money are you going to hold in OB bance for unanticipated emergencies uh and and things like that what you what Randy day fund going to be and that's our recom that would be the the that would be my recommendation for this committee's recommendation to the city now that recommendation I think should be two two parts because in reality first of all I think we need a policy but secondly uh how are we using the Surplus on a daily day-to-day basis and a practical basis and I and and I think some of the considerations for the use of of the Surplus should be the following uh I think we should reduce or or suggest reducing as much as possible uh the capital expenditure for small projects things that could or should be paid for out of surplus rather than Bond because that because anytime you Bond anything you're actually charging the taxpayer twice you're charging him more for principal and you're charging him for interest right and if you can avoid going back to that one chart if you can if you can reduce that 7 point whatever million dollar annual expenditure just on interest you'd be helping out the taxpayer you need to Define small then exactly exactly unless unless we're realizing more an interest income than it costs us to bond yeah exactly which has been the situation recently yeah I had the same question where are those surplus funds held what type of accounts uh they moved them all to uh interest bearing accounts uh and that I think was also an MRA recommendation as I was they are yeah and there that was done probably about two years ago almost I I think about that and um yeah and those are monitored in the interest reported on those accounts um I think in the first if I recall within the first year it was close to a million dollars um that we made it went from about 100,000 to over million yeah right but I think point and I agree with it if this is this point is you know if we're taking in more Revenue then we shouldn't be paying off that debt if the if the the surplus funds are earning are out earning what our debt payments so for example if you Bond something for 3 to 5 years and you are getting an interest rate that is low because of being municipality is lower than the rate that we're investing those same funds in we should Bond it and so in recommending a policy to council it should have that built-in flexibility to account for those types of and I and I believe in practice has been sort of the the the goal in the last couple of years having been able to get into an investment model that did not formerly exist before um so I think that there's you know a bit of that that has been brought in brought to bear but I agree uh because that's sort of um some of the argument on the other side of it you know if you're going to look at this I think you need to take both aspects into consideration the other part of it and I'm I'm don't want to derail you but you are getting to project summary here and I do think it's important we're looking at a snapshot here of project summaries that are associated with what I think this was the 2023 wrapped to the 2024 period right this was 2024 yeah 2024 so we know that there are big projects that are still out there that don't necessarily appear on this table that are a Dale plant now one could argue you know are we how we getting into that you know and all of the the aspects of that but I think if you heard the at the presentation at the council meeting uh last meeting the gentleman um made a comment about we're getting close to the point where we're exhausting our sort of our water capabilities um so we will have to do something now one can argue what that should be and is it one train two trains I'm not going to pretend to understand all of the details with that um and what that model should look like but at the end of the day a basic necessity of a community is good quality water um and so we have I in my opinion I think regardless of the approach or you know how we phase it um we're still going to have to go down that road in one form or another um and so whether or not it's 10 million or 40 million to to be determined there's still there's still going to be a big project that's going to come just associated with that we built a fire station we're building a police station and the likelihood of that big project is going to be that we're going to need some cash somewhere around the line and a $14 million surplus is a good place to get that cash because you have to I think because the changing climate we may not find that we will be able to access grant money as we've had the um you know capability of in the last couple of years the landscape will change on that um and there might be a conri a constriction or you know uh contraction down in the market for what where we fit all of our discussions over the last three years on the Dale issue has sort of included The Wishful hope that the feds are going to pay a lot of this and I I don't know that the feds are going to pay a lot of this who knows what the who knows what the feds are going to do when all their money is going to I was actually surprised to see D wasn't in on your list no because it's not and that was my point Russ because it's not a project that was on for 2024 I get it but it's a future project exact so there there are two lists there's what gets submitted in the budget yeah which is this this is the budget cap for 20242 then there is the police station the seaw wall the Dil plant I was going to say that there are those are three other not you know fairly significant projects that would be upwards potentially over 40 million for the three maybe yeah coming from the city well the police station is going to be five uh and uh but the seaw wall could all by itself approach 40 yeah yeah but I thought we were getting a lot of that funding elsewhere we hope so I thought it was more than do we bid out where the those surplus funds are to what bank we did do that when we initially but is that done every year uh I mean things change I don't think it's every year that they do the actual um when we first went to the uh the restructuring of our of our Capital stuff our Surplus monies uh we basically said to all the banks give us an offer see what you can do you we put put it out to sort of a bid system but and then and then we gave it to a bank and then they're maintaining it do we open that up every year it's not every year um things get stale well but but I will say that what Kevin does is look at what's going on in the market he shops the market so he with Leon and obviously looks there are some other um vehicles that we can use so if there was opportunity with another um vehicle we could move some of the money um but that is certainly within his purview to take a look at it I think that should be done almost publicly too I I don't think she puts out a a specific formal RFP or anything because some sensitivity to how much you know money that the city has with any particular banking institution and you wouldn't want to sort of give them you know I mean you have relationships it's it's a the local situation yeah so you want to be friendly relationship maybe that kind of yeah that and going back to your other point the next sheet is only the 2024 Capital program and it does include the other three it does not include the other three big projects and that's those are the three big ones those are the three big ones yeah and those are all uh complex scenarios that that are not even nearly worked out I think I think the police station is pretty close but I don't think the D or the or the U seaw wall I thought the seaw wall was supposed to police station start no but well here's what they did on the police station there are there are capital expenditures in this year for police equipment and things like that but there's nothing put aside the all all we had was an authorization for a $5 million bond which has not been left so they just haven't used it yeah now and and the the whole bonding schedule consist of two kinds of things bonds we've actually taken and bonds we've authorized to take and there the authorization list is a lot bigger than the actual so okay here we are uh so the the recommendation on Surplus is actually linked to to some of the bonding realities and that is that could there be a way to to uh minimize the the the small bonding projects which actually look more like uh annual expenditures than than bonding situations could we use the Surplus to reduce some of those things get them out of the the bonding schedule and into the appropriation schedule it it would not I don't think affect anything about the taxes it would raise the budget a little bit but there's Revenue already in the budget to compensate for that so that's a it's a recommendation I think that we could make to the city to look at at cherry picking some of these smaller things so we can keep our bond load low what do you think about that who likes that well I know that our bond load has decreased already anyway how so the the um the ratios are down is what the mayor reported from um about about 50% I think from 2.5 down to 1.85 or something along those lines um I I there's nothing wrong with encouraging the financial management of the city to consider not bonding smaller projects but yeah not that's really a day-to-day operational decision that yeah it's it's it's small potatoes but you know just in terms of of something we could recommend it would be productive it it's not going to it's not going to change the Telemetry very much I think the policy is the bigger impact that we can do absolutely um Joe maybe you know can the city have a formal policy without it being being in an ordinance I'm not sure about how K make it work but it could adopt a resolution a guidance right a principle but it would open up that flexibility that we were talking about in the event that there's a diesel plant coming right and you need to do something differently so there's ways to carve it out but it wouldn't have the same binding Authority it would be like a statement of intent res which which more than likely would be a resolution I'm thinking that a policy as opposed to an ordinance an ordinance like we're saw on recycling means that we're now no longer in compliance with our own laws so a policy I think is helpful an ordinance could be constricting and I think constricting and not giving you the flexibility to make adjustments as needed um should you find that you you know have an emergency situation or you know you're in a a downturn for because if going back to one of your earlier slides the bulk of the money that we saw as an increase associated with Revenue in the last five years is associated with the tourism industry right um and you know we've been very fortunate it's been on an uptick I'm sure this year is not going to be any different probably you know numbers are going to increase by double digits but the fact of the matter is that is a very variable and unpredictable um ex Revenue base and I liken this to being in healthcare um where you know you may have a stellar reputation um and you've got good service and quality of care but when a big-time physician would leave an organization all of a sudden the budgets got tightened up and you needed to adjust because you could not really predict Revenue beyond what you had done the year prior um and so it was uh you know it's very similar to being in this kind of um environment where you've got so much on tourism as this committee has said many times we're a unique town because because we really do count we really do access our commercial sector for Revenue like like nobody else does and and so to that extent if that's variable or volatile I don't think it's volatile but I think it's variable um then we need to be careful of that because that becomes a detriment to our Revenue projection yeah so I I I I see that point clearly so I if the desire is to make a recommendation I would you know you could do that put it in some kind of a a letter format to the clerk um whether or not it's adoption or evaluation of a policy um and then Erin would um share I also think we should kick it over to uh the City attorney and see what he thinks well I Chris would be Mr Gillan Schwarz would be included in the communication so he would take a look at it and say yeah as as Marty has said you know this this looks like a policy that would be in a re resolution this is a good thing we think you should do it in some way we I think you should have let's go back to that slide actually we think you should have a formal policy on what what Surplus is how it's handled what are our parameters uh and then that that formal policy can be in the most appropriate form that the council choose to yep so Dennis do you think we should call around and see if there's a sample policy or any other small town has a policy we could I did that that nobody does yeah yeah I looked I I also did some homework on that and couldn't find anything so this we may be forging the state doesn't have a well this will be Kate May's opportunity to only is important to have a policy if you have significant surpluses which may not be the case which may not be the case for other municipalities as we know some of them are struggling so we could very well be in a very unique situation well I did look at the surpluses of the other towns because that's in their budgets and uh to give you some sense of how unique Cape May is um Stone Harbor wanted to start a Beach utility because they're up against their spending cap yeah and their account their their auditor said you can't because you'll have to still contribute the only city that can that can run an effect effective Beach utility in this area is Cape May yeah right yeah because and they're looking at a whole lot of other changes because they're close to the cap roation Stone Harbor yeah oh yeah they have they have real problems they need an MRA committee over there in Stone Harbor maybe maybe that's our Revenue Source right we offer our services to all towns along s that's what I think well actually you know you laugh because I've had two people approach me uh to to to meet with them to explain what the MTR is and how they could use it in their town so people have people have seen what we're doing okay so we're pretty much in closure on that are we like do we like what we're doing here yeah good okay anybody oppos no okay uh I'll draft that for you and send it around see how you like it and then we'll send it up to counsel can I just do a bit of housekeeping per Erin um so you can do that cuz Sarah is not here okay so I'm just um for uh the uh two items uh just making sure that we're updating our committee membership um so we I need I promised her I would make sure that we get that list to Aon before you did it today okay great no I sent it to her on Monday oh oh or fine I had this left over I didn't realize um yeah I sent it to her Monday and then um firming up when the meetings will be um are actually in that regard I'm sorry I sent her actually the list but I sent her a copy of the resolution that Council passed just back in May which which updated all the membership okay all right so I got this from her so I I don't know um what yeah there was a resolution back in May that did that okay so we've got everybody's updated okay and then um just to firm up the meeting schedule for 2025 right um so we'll be starting um it's the every other month and um are you we going to start in January we're going to start in February I'd like to start in January okay all right and then it would be on the second and Thursdays as it has been as it January yeah yeah second I just need to get it on the calendar for the city it's still is we're staying at 3:00 then do you guys like that 3:00 thing I do I mean you know mean I got to drive down for it but it's fine I don't care yeah that much during the summer yeah during the summer becomes more of an issue from my perspective well we only do it for two meetings or one all right so 3:00 starting January every other month from there every other all right I will make sure I get that and I will share that and one other request that I have if you could please um change out your communication to be to my city email it keeps going to my personal email so yeah I just a bookkeeping U matter so that I'm getting it into my city email account everybody okay with their current emails y y all right thank you okay so you're saying cuz in this one it went to bigade one verizon.net yeah that's that's your personal so it should be what oh M McDade M McDade ATK May city.com and what are you going to do Steve Steve will come well that'll be part of reorg yeah we send out list well we do that anyway uh that's how your email that's how you get your email okay we'll take we'll take Steve off and we'll put on whoever the C Council puts on for the going forward okay all right uh all right we'll hold off on that residential rental compliance report from Sarah and we'll go to you give an update I do have an update on that from from from the report that she shared oh okay go ahead all right so just yeah and and I it's just going to be an high level overview um all of the the um properties that were on the list were investigated by the clerk's office um there was I would say several different categories of um things that were found there were some that had um a were no longer renting their properties um they or there was a property that they had not been issued a mertile license because the clerk's office was still waiting for their insurance verification um there were some that were applied for it they had applied for it but they don't get it until they submit their insurance um in information there were some that um were in the middle of uh Property Transfers so weren't Renning uh there were a couple that did receive violation notices by code enforcement um the clerk's office is in the process right now of transitioning to the 2025 um and working on updating the fees the letter um they're hopeful that they might um be able to uh you know uh make this a more sophisticated process anyone on that list that still needed followup um will get a special letter saying you need to verify if you are a rental property um and uh you know apply for your mertile license so all of the those properties were had some resolution in some way good do you have any idea the numbers like I know that was a a global view yeah um I didn't Sarah's I think she's got those numbers well was in the the initial report that she shared with us was about 112 I didn't go through each one um Dennis and look to see uh how many were of each category um but I just wanted this committee to know that actions were taken and followed up by okay the clerk's office okay any reaction any comments to that no than good good the other thing is when there she's doing the uh paperwork for 2025 right that's going to change the calculation of uh it's done it will be there will be the bedrooms will be re asked to be reported um and that was in the the um update to the ordinance and they will continue to um have on there the reporting of the square footage for one year and the reason is is because they want to make sure they're translating from the old you know square footage to the number of bedrooms okay it's a mechanical thing in sdl and we'll leave it to them but but the but the fee will be based on bedrooms yes that is correct and that's what we all wanted right right good so Marine couple of questions I have I went on the construction uh which I I'm glad they have it the the construction you know through the website yeah on the update projects and this is an update as of 1210 so recent um so I I just wanted to know because I thought and it says here the prominade preservation project that we did already receive a $6.7 million Grant that's correct and when does that start so they are putting some of that out to bid now and there is a match from the city and it's going to be done in two phases so our piece would be another 6.7 million no 10% so 670,000 67,000 so that's expected to still be completed this year then well I don't know that it there's two phases to it Russ so it may may take trans exension I I'm just talking about preservation part of it oh yes uh I believe it is is anticipated to be done but it may not be done till the fall or closer to the winter of 20 ex is a separate project that is completely separate and we don't have any funding for that no that's still there's I have been awarded a FEMA flood mitigation assistance grant but it didn't say say how much and it's being reviewed and and it's being reviewed that's right it's a future that is correct not a 2024 for sure no and I don't see anything so there's nothing in the future regarding the there is police station which is in there here that says the budget estimate is 8 million not 5 million was bonded for five five million before I thought we bonded it for five you Bond it for five bonded for and and that was probably what four years ago at least three to four years ago well at least three at least three yeah and there's no mention of course at all of the doel no no because if the presentation that the gentleman came from Triad and the other um CME they are still working through design options and working through funding sources whether it be ibank you know USDA all of the things that they went through do you know if they're if they've uh contacted American Water just to have another point of view who is an expert in this area I don't could not give you that level of D they not an expert in Dale I'll tell you that well I think they've gained a lot of experience over the last five years not Dale maybe they have I think I think they have so the company that you know um the um the company where you CME CME yeah they're the ones that we've been using for the engineering and sort of design and then Triad is the group that um has been working on the the finan they just happen to know American Water okay pretty well and and they uh I agree with you they weren't but I think they've really put a lot of resource more recently into they have a plant actually that's my understanding where I don't know where it is okay don't know where it is and I was happy to see that you did move the insurance uh and benefit did we sa how we how much are we saving on that yeah that's going to I'm sorry you said what how much are we saving um about 800,000 yeah yeah it's a it averages about 1,600 per employee who do we end up going with we went with a mar Health yeah um not only a savings but the benefit profile of that package is much better for it's it's it's better from the sense that we are now offering Dental Envision which was never offered before the the employees will individually be saving the city will be saving um and is that a direct contract or is that through a no we went through a broker for it which does sort of in my opinion and provide a little bit of a safeguard so that we've we work with a broker and we did put it out to two Brokers who's the broker you went with uh Marsh mlen you did okay and we also they they put it out to amera Health Horizon and Etna yeah I think that's a great move yeah it was about six or seven months worth of work for us to get to that it'll be a it'll be a more of a Consortium kind of approach right pardon me sort of a Consortium of other municipalities or is Kate May oh no it's Kate May themselves standing alone so they all so yeah a lot of the other municipalities are moving away from the State Health Benefit Plan State Health there's other well I was going to expl was going to go on to say they've either have gone to a broker as we did or C I think for example went directly to the payer um and I don't have to tell you this that puts you at some risk because you don't have the boundaries uh and the the parameter to ensure that your rates are not going to be just Market rates next year with the broker at least we have some opportunity um to have them shop it the other thing that we did which is different um and this is something that just started rolling out in this market um we adopt we went with a basic health insurance lower premium with some caps but what we're funding is a different it's called the difference card so it's a layer on top of it HSA H H are somewhat similar but this is a little bit different but what it does is they on the H the difference card firm has an insurance policy so they looked at our claims experience and basically said you should not exceed this amount but if we do it's on them so we we we took the best of all options and I went through all of the provider listings and the uh the Network listings to make sure that there was no gaps um and so and and I'm familiar with amera Health from working in the Philadelphia market so no it's a good choice marshm is a good firm so yeah I and what I was going to say was what you were going to say that that that a lot of because so many uh cities are following our lead on this it's draining the state plan to a point where it's going to be uh well the state at times has said that they are in AAR that they don't have enough premiums to cover the outgoing expense because less now well because the risk pool of who's remaining can't go to market they they can't even beat a 177% premium increase so um Mar it's a dying pool yeah and we had a very year ago yeah we had a very good claims uh history I reviewed them for the last three years so um we were in good shape to to take this on U that this is kind of off topic but it's good that we discussed it uh the other thing I want to ask you to follow up on the on the seaw wall project and and capital projects uh how does that that that that small project they're doing at poerty beach affect the seaw wall project the beach replenishment what which project we're doing something with the walkways and SE on the on the that's the sea W yeah so no the small one we got with the tennis courts and the and the property beach access confus bathrooms are you talking about yeah the bathroom things at property Beach oh I don't think that that has any impact at all that should interfere with no no in other words the seaw wall project is not going to not going to work against this thing we're doing right now no no and when remember and um I'm visualizing remember when we're going on the seaw wall when when you make the turn onto Wilmington that's the Army Corps of Engineers that's what I'm talking about okay I'm sorry so that no that will not and they have um my understanding is that there have been a number of discussions between the Army Corps and the city and cers who did the design to make sure that the elevations match and they actually adopted our design elevations so the two projects will eventually MH yes they will MH that's correct yes okay all right all right let's just briefly discuss this issue of the recycling program because it's it's in the news constantly and uh I guess let me Begin by asking Morin to give us a sense of what's happened with that thing and uh where we are in terms of the ordinance and then we'll discuss whether or not the ordinance is a good idea or or how do we approach this issue so the ordinance that's currently on the books um that was adopted in 2019 um states that uh the city of Kate May is responsible for picking up of residential recycling and at that time there was um an outside contractor prior to that that was utilized um they that their contract came in this is my understanding and recollection of the discussion uh and I think it was gold medal and it was going to increased significantly and the city took a position in the ordinance in the stated language of the ordinance that commercial properties would assume responsibility for their own recycling I cannot tell you what transpired from that document to what came into practice um and over the course of the last four or five years there has been some um recycling for commercial properties being picked up by the city when this came to council and the mayor's attention this was not around uh the gentleman from the the Public Works employees saying that they didn't that they didn't want to pick it up to be perfectly honest they came and said what we want is just some rules around what we're doing the conditions as as any of you have seen the picture and making sure that we have some boundaries and parameters as to how much material we're supposed to be picking up at a commercial property throughout the city we worked back we introduced an ordinance back in September um thought that we had some you know consistency or agreement um it went through second reading and um I think that there was some you know just people were sort of saying okay which should it be should we just not be doing anything for commercial at all the commercial uh some of the commercial property owners came forth and you know were upset you know we've had this now we were going to go have to go out and contract Etc um Mr brazinski who was the Super superintendent for Public Works came to the meeting himself and you know there was a lot of public comment um and basically said look again I'm just trying to protect my employees and my position was this isn't the residents versus the commercial this was about as leaders as administrative leaders as someone who ran an operational unit for 35 years when an employee comes to you and says look we have working conditions that need to be addressed we're asking for your assistance you take a step back and you take a look at that and you work with them especially with this group of people who you know really do work very hard on behalf of the city so um we tabled that ordinance um and so that ordinance that was initially introduced in on September has been tabled right we have um reconvened the work Group which was myself councilman Meyer um Mr Dietrich um Mr rigs Mr brzinsky from Public Works Frank mcclusky one of his superintendents um and of course Mr Gillan Schwartz to sit down and take a look at um recrating something putting it on the books um and matching what is in practice operationally today with um some parameters to safeguard our employees all right and and so in that same period of time on behalf of MTR I did speak to the council meeting about this and made a suggestion that that with respect to revenue Flow versus expenditure and whether whether these either of these two things are an appropriate level uh I I recommended that MTR be charged with the task of examining a and creating cost benefit analysis for the whole recycling program because of its impact on our operating budget and our the impact on services to Residents and taxpayers U the the the whole the history of the recycling program has turned out to be uh unpromising because it was marketed as as Mor has indicated the fact that we we had to go to a different kind of system the city adopted the services uh and took responsibility for it uh went into Capital uh debt uh loads to buy trucks and to and with the except with the anticipation that the recycling industry would be able to generate enough revenue for the city to make this a good deal a much better deal because we'd be providing a service and we' actually be making some money on it the revenue the recycling industry has collapsed there is no Revenue there's no ability that to to generate any Revenue we're spending money in a program we thought we were going to be making money on and uh this is the kind of a situation where where I think MTR ought to suggest a a process to come to some understanding of whether or not we ought to continue with this service or whether we we should uh do for recycling customers what we do for our trash customers and that is to to say to trash generators U you're it's your responsibility to get rid of your trash the city provides a recycling center all uh close to town in fact it's in town a little bit off off the the beaten path but it's there and a lot of folks use that to to get rid of the recycling the recycling situation in Kate May has really come to a head almost exclusively because of the commercial use of our recycling service and I think we ought to consider to to examine whether or not we should be in the business of recycling at all and uh that would be our recommendation to do a cost benefit analysis of that would uh indicate whether or not it's a good deal for Kate May a bad deal for Kate May and how Kate May can handle it the other thing too uh with respect to the recycling program is we have a significant number of employees committed to this and if we didn't have recycling we'd be able to get a lot more Public Works Services done with those employees then we I I do I really do because if if they're committed to well this is something we need to study this is something we need to take a look at in terms of what the program costs and and how much it generates and and who supports it so in that context uh I I recommend it to the city that they ask MRA to take a look at this and and uh I guess we're bringing it up to the table today uh to get a sense of whether or not MTR thinks that's a good idea to do an analysis a program analysis of the recycling service before we go into any more discussion of ordinances to to to for the number of trash cans people have to have and who does what and operating operating procedures uh changing operating procedures uh before we have a comprehensive analysis of whether we should even be doing this program to me seems like a good idea but I'll throw that up to you guys and see what you think about it any comments go ahead and r no what does city council think well they're they're basically focusing on the ordinance right now and the ordinance has been held and they're having having a group of folks I would say that before MTR entertained doing something like this they would request whether or not Council wants them to do it exactly and that hasn't happened um yeah I did actually I did do that okay so then Dennis and I just don't want to get into the public debate here but a formal request from this committee as to whether or not saying it at a public for I I don't know that you got a response to that request so clearly we are working based on the last meeting um on coming back to the governing body with a revised ordinance that was what the council decided right I I agree with you I think if they want us to do it should be done at a formal meeting I don't well it should be in writing to the city clerk just ask councel if this is what they want MTR to do no they should be asking us if or or or yes them it should be reminds me of some other things where you know we took a leap before you know we had any support from Council and it just doesn't make sense well this is the kind of yeah and and not to interrupt Russ I'm sorry um this is the kind of thing that there's a lot of sensitivity around this because this is people okay this is 80% people and this is not not necessarily something that you just start talking about um when you're talking about people and their jobs and their livelihood actually are devoted to this there's three yeah how many three three employees associated with this yes well one of the proposals on the table is which which was came out of the last meeting um there is another truck that's not being utilized so that's in the summertime they use that right mhm yeah used for the that's in the summer they use both trucks we would need to hire additional people to that's that's summer help no I understand yep um since we're year on City having something I mean they're not going to get health benefits and stuff like that it's what I'm saying is that we're a year round City the recycling issue is a year round problem oh okay so having a having a re a seasonal approach doesn't necessarily help um Dennis my response is that I think that there's more a sense of time urgency on this than that than would allow MTR to dive into it at the level that MTR likes to dive into things um I did not know going into the discussions that we're out of compliance with our own ordinance to me while um there have been assurances that the insurance that the Assurance companies will cover I think it provides us with a very weak position when it comes to uh workers compensation claims to not be in compliance with our own ordinance and that's a real risk that we have of workers compensation because of the way that it's being done today right and so uh a programmatic cost benefit analysis would indicate that with that respect to that idea that might be a good idea to not run the service themselves or run the service with appropriate operational parameters and boundaries that are known that are communicated and that are um um manage to if it's they're not in compliance then there will be escalation processes so that was sort of the goal that uh we were working towards what we agreed to when we left the table and that's what I'll be working on uh with within that work group over the course of the next six weeks for hopefully a presentation and I'm going to go back to this the experts on this the people who do this job are really the people that we should be listening to um and that's where ER came to us and said this is what I need for my my employees and I'm I'm trying to be respectful of he's the guy in the business I'm not I'm not on the back of the truck um and so well I I understand that you know you could do a cost benefit analysis I'm I'm just being very cautious about a cost benefit analysis comes to a truck that we purchased five years ago and people's lives and their livelihood and I will tell you that that you know that's just not something that I feel is our respons responsibility if the city manager feels that he wants to take a look at something and that this city needs to take a look at that I believe that's the responsibility of the city manager that is my opinion and but MTR can certainly make any motion and whatever but a cost benefit analysis goes beyond simply the truck and and two two or three people how much money are we getting for running our service and how much are we spending are are our tipping fees greater than any sort of Revenue we get are we losing money by doing this or I mean I think you started the conversation by saying that the market changed tremendously around recycling that's the reason why these companies don't didn't want to do it they weren't they weren't recouping the money but I consider it um almost an essential service at this point for residents we were already paying for trash service uh if you think about the population of this town there's certainly the area that I live in uh and Steve lives in where you have people who are in fixed incomes so trash service right now for a year round resident probably cost you upwards of I don't know $600 um how much is recycling going to add to that bill so there there is a balance that we're trying to I'm I'm personally feel in invested in this um but again I'm I'm the council liaison here if you feel strongly about it then then you could make a you know a formal written request or if Council doesn't come back and say that's what they want M track to do in the reverse then you know I don't well my opinion is the commercial should be separated from the residential and the commercial people that's that's a cost of doing business they take it out off their income tax and so forth and so on that's a cost of doing business and the reality is the the the residentials almost like you said a necessity people need some place to to get rid of their recyclables which the the half a can a week that they get and there's a should get anything they shouldn't get anything it's a cost of doing business well it's a very that's a very valid opinion and it's definitely one of the I think what Dennis that's my opinion that's I think what Dennis is talking what Dennis is talking about is whether the city should be in the recycling business or not okay and I do think that back when I was mayor I can tell you this they wanted to pick up the all the trash and and at that time I think there was a going on someplace else I don't whether it's Philadelphia and trash was piling up but it it's it they they they Bas their contracts on the number of stops and the thing is in the wintertime it it's reduced to almost nothing but they have to base their contract on the pickups so it it wasn't feasible at that time because even even the summerhouse there gets charged to the city I mean that's the way they did it then I don't know if they still do it but anyhow well whatever and the reality of the recycling program as we do it now is that the essential beneficiary of the whole program is a very small portion of our residential and and property base it it's almost all collecting the commercial dumps yeah well if you see the way they pile it up in the summertime it's like oh my was really what caused the problem to begin with that people these commercial locations were leaving mounds and mounds of of and and and that is what it looked like the devil that's that's what people complain about right and that's what we're looking to address and so as a council person I am I would not be in favor of saying that we would be getting rid of recycling program for residents or otherwise that would not be my position that's well we wouldn't that's we're simply saying whether we should undertake a study to look at that or not we're not suggesting that that is the outcome um when when the ordinance was first introduced I thought it was a great first step I I don't think it's the ultimate solution I think that there does need to be more thought put into the macro level issue that we have as as a town right I my my vote would be to not suggest that the city not do anything until M completes a study but that should the city want us to do a study for the to dis to look at the longer term issue of trash and recycling collection that we could take that on that sounds reasonable yeah I mean that's sort of my head's sort of in that same mode that it would have to be a longer term shouldn't stop what the city's doing right now well it won't and it shouldn't and it and it won't and so but but I still would suggest it makes most sense to undertake that if city council thinks it's a good idea to do for the longer term and and it's a it's a u almost classic example of why we have an MRA no I agree with you I just saying that recycling I sort of agree with Marine at some point you got to think about if you're taking away services that are important to uh City residents and that's a pretty important one well an outcome could be that the city do trash collection I mean we don't know we don't know what the outcome is I mean could be could be or could be that I don't know what did the other Shore towns do they collected themselves the the town collected right yes yeah that the statement was made that the city of K May provides the least amount of service in that area of the other Shore town that's what I thought and you know and but but with a huge expense for the one town that was mentioned that we talked about earlier that has n n employees and 20 seasonal just to do yeah recycling but maybe the recycling cans get back on the curb perhaps they do but but at the same time that expense I'm just I shouldn't have said it public record but I I would just say this that uh it would have to be future it have to be with city council saying it's a good idea to think about this down the road and our our mission is is not to to make operations suggestions at a at that micro level which is what this thing is our our our mission is to look at U the fiscal structure of the city and whether or not uh revenue is being generated appropriately and expended appropriately and that's the kind of thing we look I just caution that just to go back to that this is 80% is Personnel expenses okay so I'm just emphasizing that and it doesn't suggest regardless of what outcome that any changes would be made to the compliment of people so that's the last thing we want to do okay all right that's the last thing in this forum discussing that type of thing is a very sensitive topic it's just my op that's the last thing we want to do in fact we want to do the opposite we want we want to take what whoever folks are working for us to get them to do other things that are not being done because they're working on recycling okay that something that the city want Dave no I I agree look I think ultimately the decision as far as what services are going to be offered needs to come from needs to come from Council so if if you want to send a letter and and ask if that wants to be done or just to wait I really do think it's best to wait so much has been said over the past few meetings since there was discussion regarding the recycling ordinance that I think it's best to let the dust settle and let the working group work out the the issue at present okay we're about ready are we okay oh look who's here you thought it was a 4:00 meeting I thought it was it's not that's three I thought in the email it said in your followup oh wait a minute that it was ending at 4:30 you got to be you got here in time that's I'm so sorry you have you have four minutes to make your report no pressure cuz I promise oh my God I'm so sorry I read that completely wrong I I do need to break at 4:30 yeah we're we're out of here at 4:30 yeah that's fine we will be having a January meeting though so can you do three minutes we're meeting again January yeah I can uh just for a quick report overview I mean I have a few copies I have like nine yeah so the new Total that I have in the count of going through five different brokerages in town Bob send them this way too okay Sarah you're on before you begin let me tell you that ban just did a a uh a th foot review of these numbers she didn't have the numbers from August uh they are updated I have an updated sheet from Aaron that I okay worked off of so was about 112 is was that the number I'm up now to 108 okay fine yeah and that was taking out the ones that Aaron had said had already had licenses yeah okay um so now this is from looking at five different brokerages in town there are 20 homes with five bedrooms and above who don't have Merkle licenses and 88 homes with five four bedrooms and Below you know home meril licensees I started the process of going through Airbnb but that is going to be a very intensive Journey um I'm going to have to drive through town and really look at an iPad or something to see the addresses with the homes m uh cuz I tried to do it myself and it was much yeah they they're they're not helpful those sites to to match up I know I wish we could get a report but I know they don't offer anything like that no they don't doz of times and Marty before you go um Paul and I spoke and I know you had given him a couple of names of companies that sort of do the work that that Sarah has been doing he looked into those um we're going to do a followup with you because they didn't exact have the service that we're looking for which is matching all of that um so just that's just another followup I've talked to Paul he is committed and I've asked him to investigate further an external Source One you know program driven and to come back to council at some point to understand what that investment would look like I'm a proponent of it he's strongly supportive of it we just need to find who that company is um and he just wanted me to make sure to follow up with you to let you know we'll be in touch about scheduling something if you had contacts there or you just kind of found it on the web he did some investigation I just I just Googled it yeah okay all right yeah you and you and I talked before about this there was a there were a couple companies I recommended uh to to be looked at too that's right I I actually put three back in the presentation what was it two years ago now yeah okay right he he did those followup and go definitely does it okay all right so I'll I'll follow up and we'll have a conversation on that one we do want to get this sort of under control um because it's been invaluable um and Sarah just so you know I eron they went through every one of the ones that you had given actions had been taken in some form or fashion either they dropped out naturally they had followup some got violations and some are on the list for for this year to make sure that they are notified specifically around needing to apply great yeah so when you say violation they were issued a summons they were I won't say what was done by code enforcement but it was done by code enforcement I don't have the exact nature of it but that's what she said so so I'll send her an updated list please do but I think right now since we're moving into 20125 it's sort of a refresh start but give her the list so she can just match it up to the one you had provided back in August to make sure that there isn't anything addition that came on to it um but she's got she has that list going going forward and knows that the ones that need to be followed up for for this season let me ask you a favor uh at your next council meeting uh when you're it's up for your remarks your section uh would you walk through this issue in ter in terms of what we just to get it in the public eye I will um yes I promise okay the last two years MTR has provided a letter that has gone to homeowners to taxpayers yeah in in the in with the water bills that coming up soon so that's good but but what I'm suggesting here is that you you do this to get it in the public eye that yes I will talk to Paul because well so but that needs to happen soon if it's going to happen yeah and there's something else going out in the in the the water bill too I think so if there's no no no no some something else and I can't remember what it is saying that letter should go out soon you couldn't add this then I I I I don't know how that process works um um sorry okay can I just ask for someone to email me the name of the firm that you just mentioned or any details because I want to look at that in advance of the council meeting Dennis so I have something to reference thanks get me yours list and I'll I'll show you the ones I had too just to make sure we have the same people sure on the list yeah I think whatever Marty you had provided before Paul did follow up on those yeah and there was a that was that was like a meeting somebody came down and had a meeting I think yes uh go I'm almost positive oh that's the one okay all right Sarah now Sarah you're going to uh she's going to count on your stuff here to give that report you're going to just send it to send this to Erin I will have a conversation and let her know this is an updated list from you um I wouldn't want you to do anything more at this point because 20125 they're getting ready to send out the mertile letters okay so for you to go back at this point it's sort of you know this book is closed almost it was great it was tremendously helpful it certainly highlighted that we've got you know some gaps and that you know we're committed to doing something to figure out a way to get that Gap closed um and having an outside company that has the sophistication and the technology to be able to run those reports and not have you drive around in an iPad is pref preferable to for everyone including you thank you so will will we be giving Sarah some time on the January agenda just to take us through what she did no no that's not I'd like to understand what she did oh Oh you mean M do you want this extra top yeah because this is pretty impressive I'll take it I'd like to I'd like to I'd like and then what else can we do to help yeah that and your next year's report will include all of the other real estate agents that we we looked at not just the ones that you captured Sarah I just sent you um my two contacts for Airbnb but maybe Moren it like if we're if we're not going to keep diving into it then maybe it from the city to those government Affairs folks well that yeah anything be helpful but you know ideally if we found a company that's got sort of made uh developed a program that can you know has the technology to be able to do this is the the the best solution um and and when you contact Airbnb I've done that myself but uh whoever you contact is promising to be very helpful but so far there's been three of three of them three different people saying they're going to be they changed no right I I ran into that same issue and then it was with the assistance of my legislator that they're able to get all the information we needed so they they are very acutely aware of the threat of being B banned yeah and so when it's something simple like just provid us the property information should New York already banned they have I think there's like a 30-day limit yeah you know okay okay we're good thanks and uh let me just throw out to you we don't have time now because we're going to adjourn I think it's but starting in January I would like to examine these issues pending on the agenda you have that agenda yeah uh we need to get updated on the shared service agreements uh discussions the beachs concession agreements uh need to be looked at the parking analysis remains a problem uh and we need to reexamine that proposal on a local sales tax because it's a source of Revenue that is UNT and whether or not it's advisable to pursue it is separate and and apart from the question from the issue that it is in fact a real source of new Revenue so we we have two aspects to that issue a is it productive and B is it advisable okay can I just please ask that you send something from MTR with those four topics and ask ask if Council the governing body wants you to be involved in any one of those I mean that um I have to push back a hot potato I have to push back on that a little bit because I I understand that that that that uh Council can direct MRA to look at certain things but the MRA charge is not strictly dependent on council's request to do something but you're talking about shared service agreements and Beach concessions and I don't even know where those are right now in the city manager's work que so asking for a report on something when he's might be in confidential negotiations with someone who we have a shared services agreement on okay and and if that's the case yes but our several members of this committee have been actively involved in the negotiations and the preliminary structure of the process for those right and we haven't been asked to come back to this table on any of that yet so that issue is is is still in the percolation stage there are no shared services agreements that are coming up in the first six months of 2025 and I'm looking at Steve because we worked on this together and I think that the closest one that I recall might be the Police contract at the end fire is in 202 at the end of 2025 it is the end of and I don't know that there's anything else that was on our radar for this period of time I don't recall I and the beach concessions I gave to Mr Gillan Schwartz and Mr Dietrich the comment recommendations that came from this committee when that was back in um maybe the summertime um I gave them all of the recommendations that this committee made on the beach concessions okay so I I just want to you know I'm not pushing back to this I'm just saying I don't know that there's any activity associated with those so I don't know that there's a report necessarily coming okay that would be me give give any verbal or written update to this committee on well I I I see the role of the committee in two ways making recommendations after study but also tracking recommendations okay through the process and Shar stuff is a good example of how this committee is actively involved in tracking the recommendations as they and I I I I absolutely agree and I think from this I have followed up with the clerk's office almost every month since that report was provided to get an update on what was what Sarah gave to us and so I I think that I've tried to you know fulfill my role as liaison I get it but that's that is a model for how we should approach other recommendations we made like the shared services and right and and I if we need to be brought back for the shared services I think that the city manager and Mr Gillan Schwarz would ask for participation at that time but you can ask them for updates I asked for an update um that's what I'm telling you there's nothing else I just asked Mr Mr Dietrich about this oh right okay so um and if there's something else to add to the beach concession that I didn't have from before I'm happy to forward it on to them okay but I gave them all of the recommendations that came out of the last meeting all of the specifics the evaluation of every Beach all of those things that you that have been asked yes that you asked for yes all right okay let's let's adjust Jour in case we uh we're s minutes over and watch [Laughter] the e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e