##VIDEO ID:a_Km1Q9M_8o## e start all right call to order the chasa City Planning Commission Wednesday October 9th 2024 Liz can you make a rooll commissioner Austin here aswa here Campbell here gory here Kerber here olon here cie here bky and chairperson Brass here uh with that we'll move in to adopt the agenda can get a motion toop all in favor Aries visitor presentation is next on the agenda there's a lot of people here tonight so the visitor presentation will be anyone who like to speak to the commission on any matter that's not on the agenda agenda so if you're on the agenda you'll have your time at the appropriate spot is there anyone on zoom we're good okay with that we'll move on to approve the previous meeia minutes uh September 11th 2024 Planning Commission meeting minutes someone like to make a motion make a motion to approve brief this amendment Olson second Kerber all those in favor I post motion carries and consent items so we have the recommend approval of the final site and building plan for the golf performance center at Hazel team pc22 24-18 we've seen this a few times does anyone have any final questions for City or staff okay with that then this would be the final site and building plan I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the final site and building plan second second by Pere all those in favor iOS item and approval of the preliminary site preliminary plat zoning ordinance Amendment and conditional use permit for the cloud HQ development Liz just one moment please just making sure you guys see it on your side as well okay thank you all right so we have a preliminary site and building plan preliminary plat zoning ordinance Amendment and conditional use permit request this evening for the project known as HQ which is also being proposed uh by the same entity so the site in question is highlighted uh on this aial showing on the screen here in Orange uh it's a 72 Acre Site uh that's located north of angler Boulevard North of uh the local Street known as West Creek Lane Glover ridge above the East and North sides of the property uh there is a city-owned uh substation that's Southwest of the property and then additional rural and rural residential areas to the west of the property um also off of West Creek Lane contains um three other data centers so this would be the final site um to complete out what is known as West Creek Corporate Center uh here's just a more simplified aerial uh view of the the property if we need to go back to it for any reason and um but getting into the process side of things and where we're at uh so as most of you are aware but for those that are new uh to the city's process it requires a three-step process for a majority of our land use applications uh we are in the second step of the three-step process the concept plan which is the first step uh was completed in 20122 uh so we are at the um Second Step which is the preliminary site and building plan and rezoning and more of that technical analysis um so this is more of that detailed review and understanding of uh uh code and how the project either complies um and then if things were to move forward this evening and with city council the third and final step would be final sight and building plan approval uh so in terms of some previous approval that have uh occurred on this site um this site does date back to uh 2015 and 2017 when um the first uh concept plan and preliminary plan came through uh for the site and this was for a different project uh different from cloud HQ uh which was for four data centers um at this time in 2017 is when the rezoning occurred on the property to planned Industrial District number seven um and at that time is when development standards were were put in place that were relevant to the project that was proposed uh with the four dat data data centers um and that's also when the building height maximum was established to was in reference to that four data center use um in August of 2022 I should also mention that that uh four data center use did not move on to final so that project did end up getting abandoned um and was not constructed so in August of 2022 is when we saw a different concept plan come forward specifically from the cloud HQ entity um in in August of 2022 is when that concept plan was approved um and I just want to note a couple details that were uh done at that 20 um at that time it was known that the building proposed was 72 ft in height um it was4 million square ft total in square footage um birming was also shown as a part of that uh concept plan um there was anticipation for uh uh the use of mechanical equipment including generators and cooling systems on top of the building um and the need for a new substation to help service the electric capacity for this size of building um that plan that was approved in August of 2022 is shown on this screen here um so if we need to refer back to it we can also at that time um or shortly after the concept plan uh was approved an auar uh was completed and adopted uh for the site because of the size of the data center that was proposed it was in the threshold of requiring an environmental assessment uh so uh an AAR is a um an alternative to that or a uh eligibility for that so that was completed in January of 2023 when it was formally adopted um and then subsequent to that in October of 2023 you guys uh saw the conditional use permit request come through for the construction of the burm um on this property uh so they did receive approval for that conditional use permit and that was an anticipation that the burm was going to be uh starting way before um the building and site plan process uh they still have not started the construction of the burn but that cup is um still a valid document on the site um and then recently in August on August 13th uh the applicant did host another neighborhood meeting with the uh Property Owners within 500 ft just to um come before them again and give them notice that they were applying for their preliminary plan um in terms of existing conditions on this property uh so as I mentioned before the property is currently zoned under p7 or what we know as planned Industrial District Number 7 um it is a roughly 72 Acre Site that's composed of two different Parcels there's a smaller parcel uh that contains the Homestead on the property that's roughly 1.6 acres in size and then the uh larger parcel is a little over 70 acres in size and has been used as agricultural uh land the driveway to the homestead does come off of uh School Master Drive uh to the north here um to access the property um and that comes through a city-owned outlot uh between the existing res es on school Master Drive um that driveway will be abandoned uh with this project uh there also exists a significant electric easement that runs east to west through the property um and it's dashed out here in this uh exhibit and we'll show other exhibits that clearly identify it as well uh but it's 125 ft wide um and it's meant to contain uh the overhead uh transmission lines that bifurcate the property um as well as uh surrounding property so there are two transmission towers that uh currently exist on the property and that will remain uh with the course of the project um and then also near to the site is a city-owned substation that's F uh 50 megawatts in size um and that's on the southwest side of the property so to get into the det details of the request so it's kind of a four-part request here uh the first part is a preliminary site and building plan uh which is for the data center uh site and building um which totals 1.4 million square feet in size um when you add both the stories of the building together uh which amounts to 715,000 square ft of building footprint on the property uh the height of the building is proposed at 7 2 and 1/2 ft tall uh two stories of a um uh covered uh area within the building um and then a penthouse portion on top of those two stories uh so that's where it gets to a 72 and A2 fet in height um a 30 foot BM is proposed on the North and East sides of the property uh to help screen the site from the adjacent residential areas to the north and east uh preliminary plat is the second piece of this request and that would be to platted into one lot for the uh data center use the third part of the request is a zoning ordinance amendment to uh the current zoning District on the property p7 um and that's broken into three parts of amendments uh related to the parking provision for data centers uh related to the building height uh defined in p7 and then last for the Landscaping provision for the site and then the last and fourth part of this request is for conditional use permit um to construct the new proposed uh substation totaling 200 megawatts uh this is the preliminary site plan and I've kind of colored it out just to make it a little bit more um uh readable in terms of the different elements of the site uh the building is shown in blue here and as we mentioned before um it's 715,000 square feet of building footprint um and then when you add the two floors of uh covered space it's uh 1.4 roughly million square feet of uh building square footage uh the height of the the building is 72 and2 ft tall um and this is where that zoning ordinance request comes into into play since the max Building height defined in p7 uh States 36 ft tall in terms of how the site will be accessed uh West Creek Lane currently stubs off as a culdesac on the south side of the property so effectively the site uh will uh access off of that current culdesac via a private driveway um which would uh provide full circulation around the site and building um shown here the site will be secured uh with uh a priv or with a security fence that will be a black aluminum picket style fence that will fully Encompass the driving and the building areas of the site um there will be a security gate in booth at the vehicle entrance here um which is not a typical for this type of use um if you have been out to the other sites there um all of them do have security booth uh functions at the entrances of their sites and that is meant to keep the site secure these are high security um uses and that is why they have the fencing and the security booths um as ancillary uses to the property the front of the building will face North uh so towards the main parking area on the northwest side of the the site um and this is where most of the administrative uh function of the building um will happen from is the north side but a majority of the building will be composed of the data Hall um and other support uses the building um is set back um in a variety of different values from the property line so from the north property line it it's approximately 345 ft away from the nearest uh point there on the South side at its um shortest point it's roughly 165 ft away from that property line on the east side it's 780t roughly uh from the East property line and then from the West property line it's 88 ft approximately uh a total of 358 parking stalls are shown in the site plan um 234 of which they would construct with the construction of the building um 123 they're showing as proof of parking um and this based on their analysis and how many people they plan to have in the building which is roughly 75 to 100 uh employees um that would fit into the administration portion of the building um the parking would be able to accommodate that value um So based on the defined parking provision within p7 of one parking stall per 2,000 square ft it requires 715 stalls uh so the 358 um that they're proposing does fall below that however uh the applicant is requesting an amendment to that parking provision to better align with the data center use now that we have um more precedence to uh base a parking provision off of um the new substation is proposed on the south side of the site um in purple here and that was intentionally done to get adjacent to the existing substation as well as provide uh screening and separation from adjacent residential birming is proposed in the green areas defined on this plan um which is a 30 foot burm um and then Landscaping placed at top that 30 foot BM uh getting into the architectural details of the proposal um this slide is showing the East and West elevations of the building um and defining where that 72 and 1/2 ft uh part of the building really sits which is at the top of the the penthouse portion um the two-story area um goes up to 53 and 1/2 ft um so again it ranges between 53 and a half at its tallest um building parit to its tallest Penthouse um uh point at 72 and A2 fet uh the north elevation is shown here and it's broken up into three pieces because of the uh uh scale of the uh building here but the top portion shows that full um elongation of the building um so the north side does have most of that glazing or um glass um within the front portion of the building and where that Administration area is for the DAT data center um where the the front of the building would be accessed from this is the South elevation so facing towards the other data centers off of West Creek Lane and then the floor plan of the proposed building the first floor is shown here the yellow portions are the data center Hall uh storage areas this gray area is um an area of generators the green area is where Administration and employees would be housed this lighter blue area is a loading area the second floor would contain uh data Hall storage as well as support area too uh the penthouse is shown on the top portion of this floor plan um which will house both um interior uh generators within the penthouse or pink area of this um uh floor plan and then a architectural screen wall with sound mitigating um components to house the uh air cooling uh systems the materials that are proposed on the building are a mix of um different materials so they will be using mainly pre-cast concrete panels out there with two different colors both in a light and a dark gray to help uh provide some interest between the panels uh some portions of the panels will integrate this aluminum embedded I icicle accent into the concrete to help provide another varying element um into the building um and then um Glass and Metal cladding will happen around kind of those main um uh visual areas on the north and west sides of the building and then in addition to the concrete and the aluminum um embedded uh accents they will also be incorporating Vine walls to uh the sides of the buildings using pre pass concrete to help provide a soft Edge um to the building so you can see how that is being utilized in these renderings here um this is the West facade um which is probably the most visible uh from uh adjacent properties and then uh the north side here with the glazing system on the front um and then you can also see kind of the the use of those icicle accents as well uh getting into the landscape plan um our landscape plan is based the quantity that's required is based on the square footage of the building um in this case it's based on a 1.4 million square foot uh criteria um so that entails um from a requirement perspective them placing over 1500 trees on for overstory trees 390 understory trees or um ornamental trees and then over 2,300 um shrubs on site what's proposed um is shown in this plan here um and the values are shown uh to the right here um so they're at 926 trees 323 understory trees and 15 roughly 15 00 shrubs so obviously it's be below the city's uh landscape ordinance here um but there is a request to um come forward with a different alternative uh to provide a more productive uh plan so there's a an amendment uh included as a part of this request for the Landscaping provision of the site and I'll get into that a little bit more in a separate slide um the site is also providing a 30ft burm along the north and east sides of the site um and they've provided some cross-sections as well as some renderings to provide that visual detail um from the adjacent sites so the first uh crosssection is uh a north to south section from the school Master residences um into uh the building here to show the um the scale difference um between the nearest Home the burm with the landscaping and the proposed height at 72 and 1 half feet tall the next crosssection is here on the east to west edge of the site between the building and the the properties uh on Clover Meadow Drive whoops here to show that separation um and visual um being seen from the adjacent residential the third cross-section is shown on the Southeast side of the site so here between the um bu building and the homes kind of in that uh corner here and this crosssection was also included because this portion of the berm um sits at roughly 20 feet tall versus 30 feet tall due to the uh existence of the XL transmission line so it does have to step down there to um uh be within the parameters of that easement area and then the last one is the West Edge which is adjacent to open land on that side and then a couple renderings um these were included um during the concept plan um as well as into the preliminary here um to uh provide that visual detail as the plantings uh start to become more mature um at their maturing Age and what that looks like in terms of what's being seen from adjacent residences and what portions of the building can be seen from those backyards um it was noted that the planting plan incorporated into these renderings is probably half of what's shown on the landscape plan today um so the plantings here would um uh almost double um what you're seeing on these uh exhibits here uh getting into the substation details um so this is the portion that requires the conditional use permit um the proposed substation is a necessity for the data center um in order for it to uh operate upon conception um so it is a 200 megawatt uh substation that would help feed a portion of cloud hqs uh electric need um so the first phase of this substation would at least provide 50 megaw uh to help accommodate the initial needs of cloud hq's site Cloud HQ will eventually need um up to 220 megawatts of electric need um which they will gain that 170 megawatts from a different substation uh which is a more Regional substation that would be planned at a later date um but at least for the initial start of their construction they'll need 50 megawatts which would come from this um proposed substation on site uh the additional 150 megawatts that's able to be um serviced from this proposed substation would help service the needs of surrounding users um the substation itself um they've provided some details in terms of the height components of the the pieces within that the highest structure would be a monopole structure which you can see uh in this image here um would be the tallest piece within the substation at 110 ft tall um and that will range in width from 3 and 1/2 fet wide at its base to 2 and a half inches at its top um the other structures within the substation would fall uh significantly below that at 65 ft High which would be dead end structures to help um um extend the overhead lines uh to the adjacent uh transmission lines and other substation or electric uh structures um in the vicinity um substations do require a conditional use permit with the city so they are um asking for that as a part of their request um essential Services um um requires a conditional use permit which in include substations um there's uh six criteria uh that are denoted in our cup portion of our code um which have all been responded to uh but to kind of summarize um The Proposal here um again the substation is a needed uh piece uh for the data center to uh be built on the onset um but it will also help supp ment surrounding users um in the area both in the business side and on the residential side too um the positioning of the substation was intentional uh to be placed next to the existing substation um which is the furthest spot away from nearby residential um it will also be uh mainly screened uh by the building itself that's proposed which is 72 and 1/2 ft tall um and then it will would also be screened by the 30 30 foot tall berm on the east side um so the pieces that are within the substation again would fall below what the building um is proposed at in terms of height except for the monopole structure that was mentioned um the placement of the substation was also done to uh be compatible with adjacent electric infrastructure uh in the area such as the transmission towers um and uh other substations that are planned or existing um and the uh access to the substation can be accommodated uh be accommodated of through their site that they've shown on their site plan so the criteria listed for a conditional use permit uh has shown to be met um therefore the request for the conditional use permit um is reasonable getting into the zoning ordinance amendments um again these are three different Amendment requests uh for the proposal uh one is related to the parking provision one is related to the building height and then the last one is related to the Landscaping provision uh for the parking Amendment um uh they are proposing to amend uh the language that calls out the parking regulation for uh data centers um in the p7 district uh the code currently states that one space is required for each 2,000 square ft of Warehouse or data Hall area The Proposal would be to amend that to be one space for each 4,000 square feet of data Hall area um it was anticipated during the concept plan approval that there would likely be parking changes as a result uh of this uh site plan um so this is not out of line with what has already been anticipated in terms of how we looked at this uh change um we are basing it on precedence that we have uh out in the West Creek Corporate Center area that contains three data centers today um these data centers range in size from 52,000 ft up to 250,000 Square ft um and we looked at the parking provisions on site um which range from 30 stalls to 60 stalls for the the larger um building um and uh when visiting the site um and looking at aerial uh photography of these sites since you can only get so far in um the parking lots are rarely um fully occupied um and that was something that we anticipated even with the construction of uh these first three data centers is that they do tend to be lower parking users however at the time we didn't have a parking code for a data center use so we did base our parking provision based off of a warehouse use um we felt it was the most similar in nature so that was the parking provision put in place at the time um so now that we um have precedents um out there um and it's been several years since these data centers have been in use um the amendment to change to one space for each 4,000 square feet uh would be consistent with the parking Provisions uh that are currently out there um and the parking provision on cloud hq's s would also meet that requirement so the requests to amend the parking requirement in p7 as proposed um staff believes believes is reasonable in terms of the building height um again going back to the concept plan approval for this project um it did indicate a height of 72 feet during that approval uh so there was anticipation that p7 would have to be amended uh for the max Building height uh p7 uh currently lists the max Building height as 36 feet um and this uh standard was put in place in 2017 when the site was rezoned uh as a part of the four data center proposal um so the height was consistent with the height that was shown on that for data center use and uh project and just want to note that that's pretty typical when we do go through a rezoning process as we when we do a plan District we are curating the development standards uh based on the project that is before us uh so that is why the 36 feed has been codified into the development standards it was based on a previous plan um that showed a 36t high building um the maximum height uh that is requested for an amendment is to keep the 36 ft uh requirement on the existing buildings uh within the West Creek Corporate Center um and then um for this uh lot in particular allowing the 72 and2 fet uh requirement or Max Building height and that's based on the fact that uh the burm height it differs on this site compared to the BM height on the southern uh data center so um uh we are basing our analysis based on the screening that is able to be achieved on the uh the cloud HQ site uh so again Cloud HQ is proposing a 72 and A2 foot building uh in addition to that they're proposing a 30ft tall burm plus Landscaping on top of that BM um I also want to note that that um in in uh the difference between the 2017 um approvals versus what is shown now is there is a pretty significant difference in the setback that is uh achieved from the East property line so the building proposed this evening has been pushed to the West portion of the property uh to provide greater distance from the Eastern property line and residential on that uh side uh to help um mitigate some of the uh uh proximity there so just for uh comparison the 2017 proposal showed 150 foot setback from the East property line the cloud HQ building is going to be 780 ft from that East property line roughly uh the north property line setback is consistent uh between both proposals um and going back to the crosssections that were provided um earlier um this was looked at in terms of the reasonableness of the requests to amend to a 72 and2 foot uh building maximum which shows uh the birming and Landscaping um mitigating or minimizing the views of the building uh substantially from the adjacent residential so the request to amend the building height uh to 72 and a half feet for this site uh is reasonable based on staff's analysis and then lastly um the amendment to the p7 district for landscaping is um based on kind of a different look at um how we are looking at this site uh this uh property requires um over, 1500 uh trees over 300 um under story and um a substantial amount of shrubs so they are deficient in all three categories uh that are required for this size of building so they're deficient by 636 overstory trees deficient by 67 understory and 884 shrubs um so they do have a portion of the backside of their burm that could uh accommodate um additional plantings it would basically mean what you see on the North side would be implemented on the backside here in terms of plantings um however uh it was considered uh whether or not there's better more productive alternatives to uh placing those plantings in a more productive or public benefit fitting space uh but and also provide a more sustainable outcome uh for those plantings um so the few Alternatives that we've uh explored on the front end um is one to install trees on the city owned area east of the site to help bolster the residential screen Edge um which they have placed um 23 trees in this area that's immediately um a into the property which is currently uh pretty open uh just tall Prairie Grass out there today that was one alternative and then the second alternative would be to create a tree Brank or collect a tree fund to capture the deficient landscape quantities and to be used in public benefiting spaces like public parks um and that is something that uh we would continue to coordinate on as we um prepare for a final subm submission for this project so something that the city is committed to doing if that is um considered uh a favorable route for the applicant to go down um just to spell it out a little bit more um obviously there were um certain objectives and uh ordinance and tents that needed to be met in order for us to even consider an alternative so um a couple of those objectives that we um stated on the front end before we could consider alternative Alternatives were the following um they have to provide an amount of trees that get close to the full requirement but also create a balanced feasible and sustainable outcome on the site they did provide a 20-year landscape plan to show how the current plan that they're proposing uh can be sustained um uh in the long term uh there was also an objective um to increase the amount of uh larger caliber trees on site um that are required in the 3in 3 and A2 inch 4 in and 4 and 1/2 inch uh tree Provisions beyond the 10% required threshold per our landscape ordinance um so bolstering those caliber inch uh quantities above the requirement so that on the front end of installation they're they're putting in uh a majority of um and they're putting in um the larger trees and these trees um what they're providing is shown in bold here on this table above the 10% requirement um and these would be placed on the residential side of the burm um and then also kind of the most important is placing the priority on the burm side facing the residential to maximize the the screening that they're able to achieve on the burm So the plan that they propose is really maxing out every square inch on that burm side and on the top portion of the BM um to help bolster that screen Edge for the residential on the North and East sides uh so getting into kind of our analysis of uh what's being proposed and where we're at um obviously this is a building scale that we have never seen before in front of us and because of that we're seeing a landscape requirement that is at probably the biggest we've ever seen um and therefore it's requiring uh a substan amount of landscaping out there um uh our goal with the Landscaping out here is um multifaceted uh in in terms of meeting the intent of our landscape ordinance also meeting the intent what the PID District um requires for landscaping um and ensuring that the objectives that we went over are being met on site um uh the exhibit shown on the top side of this slide here indicates uh the available areas that they can landscape on site the red indicates where they cannot landscape due to the building parking driving areas um ponding and easements that are on site here so they are uh to what staff believes is um a good faith effort in trying to fill in the site and uh direct their priority to the area that have been uh defined um so we do feel this is a good faith effort in trying to uh get the most productive use of Landscaping on the site um and placing the same amount of plannings on the backside of the sperm doesn't seem to be the most productive use of landscaping for the site and what the intent of the ordinance is um to help screen and provide that balanced outcome um we believe there are um more productive Alternatives that can be benefit um more beneficial to the public and the community um by looking at other areas along the east edge here there's probably more opportunity on the Southeast side here in the city owned area that can uh be filled in yeah just to clarify I think this explicitly state so it's not that they're deficient because they don't want to put the trees are maxed out right so that's the that's the deal so the trees are maxed more or less without overcrowding and so we still want to have those trees elsewhere in the city or have like a tree bank right okay I think they could uh feasibly do it and every sure you just have quty in there however it is a question of is it going to be sustainable um it is a question of uh planting a forest on a side that may not be visually seen um so there's those questions that are coming into play here um that we're trying to weigh out um so um the request is an alternative to look at a more creative more beneficial option for those deficiencies well okay sure um so from staff's point of view um and also with um impending large projects uh specifically a community park planned in the southwest area of the city um we do see this as a a benefit um uh to help uh provide um the tree Provisions for um these areas that are going to be uh highly um used by the community uh so the request uh to amend the Landscaping Provisions within the p7 district for this site in particular uh we find would be reasonable um so that concludes um The Proposal uh so there is a couple motions you would be making this evening uh with this uh proposal uh one would be to make a motion to recommend approval of the preliminary site and building plan the preliminary plat and the conditional use permit for cloud HQ and then based on the conditions that are listed in the staff report um and then a motion to recommend approval of the zoning ordinance amendments to p7 and that's based on the draft ordinance um If This Were to move forward this evening um I do want to note the city council date that it would go to which would be Monday October 21st um happy to answer any questions we do have the applicants in the audience um and then this will also require a public hearing too thank you Liz uh a couple quick questions kind a considered but the homestead driveway so it's technically part of it's not on the site but it's still it's like an easement between houses basically is that going to be something the applicant would fill back in for the Neighbors between their yards essentially or is the city going to do that how do we make sure that gets taken care of where that goes back to yeah that's City thing it is within a city owned Outlaw today okay um however um I think that's a detail that we don't have specifics on quite yet in terms of how it' be finished out but um maybe the applicant does know or understand um kind of where they're at with that because obviously it's going to be taken out right as a part of the project um and so how would they finish it off hey um the tree plan 20-year plan for landscaping are they going to draft up some sort of documents for enforcement of that is that for if trees die they're going to replace them or or is there any kind of any kind of documentation on that or anything been discussed in this 20-year plan um and maybe I needed to clarify that a little bit I mean the the point of the 20-year plan was to which is shown on this exhibit here um like in 20 years right in terms of the scale of the canopy y that the trees would uh get to at around that time which is approaching near mature scale uh we wanted to understand what that overlap may or may not look like um to see if it um looks like a sustainable plan um you know we've also been in communication with the landscape Architects to to understand what a feasible plan looks like from their experience um and this is um that plan so in terms of Replacements I mean that would that would come at kind of the same um warranties that any other landscape plan one would have I just think it'd be important obviously there's going to be a lot of trees make if there should something be in the final development agreement that they have to replace trees some something of that nature sure then the tree fund let's say they go the tree fund way or the tree bank if you will I know i' heard you mentioned like you know you could use it in other spaces in the city public places I thought like does it have to be public places what if you know the immediate adjoining neighborhoods their direct Parks if they have dead trees or even if the neighbors themselves have like trees that aren't making it in their front Boulevard can this tree fund be used to help out adjacent Neighbors that are right there as well like if if they happen to have a dead tree or or something like that so you know it's kind of they get something in return um with these excess trees since they're the ones potentially affected does that does that work if you cross over privately like that I think that's where the challenge would lie CH brass so I appreciate the creativity but um I think you know when we're looking at every gets a tree excuse me yeah everyone gets a tree Oprah yeah when we're looking at the purpose of the ordinance um you know City requirements it's really about the public benefit yeah um so I think you got to be careful when you start thinking about you know that line between private public at least maybe public parks right in this neighborhood if there's a new form they could benefit first yeah potentially I think you know we've talked with our Public Works director about you know how this could maybe work and I think there's details that be ironed out yeah um you know I think there's there's a number of different things that um could come into play here there are opportunity obviously right but um in our existing Parks you know we're working with Emerald ashor um and so that's a big thing that we're we're trying to replace trees and actively prepare for the some of that happening already um so I think you know there's a there's an opportunity within that as well just a tag along on that one um I know in the past when we've run into Landscaping issues on the commercial on the industrial side of things we've been a little Lex on requiring the full allotment of Landscaping on some of the requirements is um because obviously they're trying to maximize his space and you know making sure they're putting the landscaping and the the parking lots and the you know the the medians and whatnot but this one seems a little off because now it's the city is holding firm to our requirements and saying well you can't fill it in but you can you can fill this bank for trees for chasa we can use it somewhere else so it seems like this is I I I don't want to use the word dirty but it it it seems off compared to any of the other uh projects we've had come before us in the fact of we've required them to put the Landscaping in their property we haven't allowed them to say well if you don't create this fund and we'll we'll put the plants somewhere else I mean yeah I don't know if I'm hearing a question there but I guess have a couple reactions um this is the first time we're I I'm hearing that we're allowing a development come through and not hit their Landscaping requirement but yet fund a bank or provide an opportunity to fund a bank of to the city to be able to use the city to use it a different way I don't recall other developments that have been under no but but what I'm saying is we've forced they've hit their requirements yeah but now this one can't hit the requirements so we're saying well it's okay you can't hit it so I think they can the point is they don't want to hit the requirements around the building they want to for surely hit the requirements you know so the neighbors you know them all out on the other side of the BM which would be worthless to anybody because the Public's not gonna well the should not be giving an opportunity for the future developments to say yeah we can't meet the requirement and we can have it in fund like as you said like I mean we have only 100 trees need to be there you can put 80 remaining 20 you can put it in that tree Bank we can open the flood gates for the other developments to say that this kind of uh practice as long as they Max so as long as they fulfill I mean the max it's always depending on the size of the building right I mean if if imagine if the size of the building is little less probably they could have put more I mean it's always give and take it's they wanted to put the maximum space that is the reason they can't put more right building was half then we half the Landscaping so it's very similar like Park dedication fees is what you're kind of modeling this on so yeah if I may you know you are correct commissioner Olson this is a new thought right um I think we've had other examples of projects uh where in order to meet the landscape requirement um it's been probably more than a healthy planting that has occurred on the site has raised questions around the long-term terms sustainability of it um and I think staff has heard from Planning Commission concerned about that as well um and the desire to seek balance um I also want to give credit you know to Cloud HQ in this situation the idea of you know doing a sort of tree Bank type of a thing um however we end up getting to detail and Define you know Define that with them um came from them and the desire you know they've acknowledged that yes they could get all of the trees on this site that's Siri really wants but you know from their perspective they would prefer to see that investment have more of a public facing benefit and Landscaping um on the interior of the BM in a location that's really not visible U to anyone except the folks who are visiting the site specifically right um so you know that that's a suggestion that they had made and I think staff looking at it in analysis that Liz has given um you know used that as a reasonable outcome um I think if Planning Commission feels strongly that you see the whole thing landscaped like you're seeing on the neighborhood facing side of the BM you know we could re we could relook at that but we're trying to bring forward here is something that's more responsive to the feedback that we've heard from the Commission in the past it's definitely the uh a good idea to have somewhere else but like uh what is the timeline I mean that is also we need to be making sure right I mean um suppose the project is completed in next two years we have the bank but it's not used for next uh until next five years there is no use I mean we have we always need to have the balance as commission was saying uh the park fund right we are taking some fun some of the neighborhoods are not having to lot but like nearby park if you say some Park the proposed big Park planning to construct from Last 5 Years we never know when it is going like surrounding some of the communities doesn't even have the T lot they have paid City for whatever the fees they wanted to pay but the the residents are not getting the benefit out of it because the park is not built yet so we have to make sure like we are getting that uh additional Tree Bank but we have to use it the right time probably that helps would the tree Bank be more of a monetary thing obviously they're not going to have mean so they just pay for whatever the average cost of a tree would be we'd have a fund that we had draw upon to use for other trees I mean would imagine that's the general idea y just like right similar very similar okay yep question for Nate could you help provide some more clarity as into the rationalization for um allowing or at least allowing the doubling of the size from the 36 to the 72 feet um because the PID was set for 32 36 feet Cloud HQ knew that coming in staff knew that coming in you Prov that concept but IT staff continued to allow that to come through so I would like to know what what's staff's position on that how how did it come to be that way perfect um commer Olson I feel you're giving staff a lot of credit um thank you for that but um this is this is something that was discussed at concept St item in concept and it was a side note with very little discussion because it was it was brought up as one line saying they're going to come through at preliminary for needing an amendment and that was all that was discussed I think we had even renderings in burms that concept there was talking of it but the there was one statement of saying it's like they'll need an amendment there wasn't but the 72 like we were aware of it like it had yes but the question is but ultimately is like going back to the beginning how did it get from the beginning of 72 feet versus knowing that it was planned for 36 understand the question so I'll try to answer um at concept um you know CLA Q has been very open with their intention from the start that they would propose a 72- foot building staff informed them of the uh the the conditions that are in the current zoning um that is something that was discussed at concept it was presented to Planning Commission and city council um there were renderings provided um the renderings that Liz showed today of the burm uh with the Landscaping on it were also available on the concept packet so that was shown then as well um so staff was pretty upfront I think from the onset with Cloud HQ that if they wanted to pursue that height of a building the sight lines would need to be uh a priority and so the birming and the landscaping and being sensitive to what that outcome for the neighboring uh for the existing neighborhood would be in the sidelines that they would experience uh would be some would be key in analyzing whether that could make sense or not um so Cloud HQ has come forward with the building um and it's the building that they've brought forward tonight is the same footprint and the same height um the same build or the same burm uh with more Landscaping on it than was presented in concept um so at the concept uh what staff heard from Planning Commission was a recommendation to council for approval of that um knowing that the building was what it is knowing that there would be a need for an amendment to the zoning Council we had that same discussion and they approved that concept plan and so I think that's what led Cloud HQ to uh feel comfortable with coming forward at preliminary with what was proved in in concept um and that's why we're forwarding coming coming forward with that recommendation That We Are Tonight based on the recommendation the direction that was provided by the city council in their concept approval so it was assumed going into it that they were going to be allowed to get an amendment because I think I would because it was recommended to us from because it was presented to us and recommended to us that we should approve a concept a 72 foot building that's how it was presented to us that's correct okay I just want to make sure that's how you know yes it was presented to us as a 72 foot building the concept um but that's all it was and uh commissioner Olson we can only present to you what the applicant is asking for right I mean that so that's what was presented at concept uh you all recommended approval Council approved it but you knew but staff knew what was zoned for that lot at the time which was 36 presented to you all okay yeah we we went through this and I remember the burm too because some because I was asking if some parts of the brim could be taller for some of the neighbors do like five more feet five more feet and like where we had a whole discussion on it um which by the way I did want to bring up so some of the burm is taller in certain sections it's an average of 30 feet roughly is that correct let the applicant respond to that taller few fuel homs like there kind of thing yeah Corner yeah we we asked at least like five more feet on the Corners yeah at least if they can consider that that would be great because those are the direct impact or the direct line of the site for those things y we had that conversation think it was brought up yeah we had that long conversation on that not the not the amendment side of things it wasn't so in and one last question um I know in the 2040 comp plan um the green belt actually does touch that property um can you please comment on that one for me because I know I brought that up in concept and it wasn't addressed so is that the West Side yes yeah yeah I recall that coming up in concept as well on having the discussion um so we did talk about it there um I think it's important to understand the the comp plan in areas especially in areas that are undeveloped um you know it's hard to understand as we're putting those lines down exactly where that line will fall on development right and so that area that is you know guided um I don't know if it was rural residential or open maybe open space open space um the intent there is to is to be incorporating areas that are wetlands or undevelopable okay and so the area and that's that's done by looking at uh Aerials aerial photos and trying to make a judgment call as to where those lines may actually be not until we get in the development process and understand and have gone through a wetland delineation can we really fully understand exactly where that delineation occurs that's why we go through the delineation process for things like Wetlands wooded steep slopes and other things like that through this development process we found out that um you know that line um you know was covering areas that are developable and so therefore um you know we're in a position of recommending that we permit the development to happen in developable areas so now fast forward and because the green belt continues down to the South down towards the fleet farm and when we continue to develop we're going to cross into that green belt area again so we're going to have this conversation again so it really doesn't mean anything I I guess we presented in the 2040 comp plan about protecting the barrier around chass it's been there for decades and now the first time we actually come close to it we just plow right through it and I I do have a concern about that because we're this particular parcel is not uh designed to be part of the green belt much of the green belt and the tool that we use to uh try to that is guided rural residential um and there's policies around how that can develop it's very clear that green belt the green belt crossed over the lak Town Township border and into this parcel so it's very clear in the 2040 comp plan that the green belt crossed over so I guess that's the part where I've I've got high concerns about what's going on with this parcel and how it's conflicting against our 2040 comp plan and I brought it up at concept and it's still not addressed and we're just kind of walking past it because they're developing the whole thing but yet it's going against everything that chasa has been for the last 30 years since we created the green bell so it just kind of tells us where we're at right now so I'm and disappointed is there other questions for staff amongst us I imagine some of you guys have questions before we open a public hearing yeah I'd like to hear from the public okay any other before open public hearing questions for staff amongst yourselves asking about the additional height of the BM like the developer is there they do see that anything about that yeah yeah when they come forward okay it's a public hearing so at 8:08 I will open the public hearing um so anyone like to come forward and speak including the applicant neighbors or anyone uh now is your time when you come forward please state your name and address for the file things evening everybody my name is Brett Bernett I'm here on behalf of clad Q I'm director of development my address is 55 inness Road Fairfax Virginia we are a hyperscale data center development company based in Washington DC uh we have projects throughout the United States and several International countries as well it's a pleasure to be back here uh in the great city of Chaska it's been two years since we were here last uh but I just wanted to reiterate our uh excitement about developing in the city the data center world as as you see lots of places is changing frequently uh it's very Dynamic a lot of uh items that need to be sorted out to to do a project of this size that we've been working through Power being one of those and the timing to get power to for the project but we are we're very committed to being a part of this community and bringing this project forward and just wanted to say thank you very much for your consideration uh so we have some team members here to help answer questions you guys have about the project uh specific to the Landscaping I just wanted to say absolutely appreciate the the commentary this is a unique project I think for the city of chasa it's a unique project for us in a lot of ways this is by far far the largest berm that we've ever installed on a project we have BMS on a lot of our projects 30 feet is by far the the largest we've ever done 1,200 trees and 1500 TR shrubs is is certainly significant I wanted to commend uh Nate and Liz for for their diligent work on the entire process and project but specifically on that piece it's been very collaborative and the reason we brought forward is this alternative idea and concept was to present an array of options whereby we we feel it's more beneficial to the public for all the reasons that you guys have have stated it's a data center it's mostly housing computer equipment the humans that are occupying the office space are primarily in the northwest corner of the site so we've beefed up the Landscaping on that part of it but a 30 foot burm obviously is stepping down on the interior side on the North and the east side of the sites we don't feel like it pro it is providing a lot of public benefit to build the forest that we have on the residential side I think the forest we're building on the residential side is very warranted in this case there's a very nice residential there just wanted to also reiterate the plan that you saw on there with the renderings that was from where we brought a concept plan that was a 25% of code plan for trees we're now at 61% so it's well over double what was shown there and another point I think is important that mix of trees was high on the two to three caliper inch on the original concept plan we're now much heavier on the three and a half to four and a half so we we paid particular attention not to just the 20-year plan but also to the day one plan and what will it will look like for the residents when it gets first built uh and I think that's absolutely important in this case so just want to re reiterate our our commitment to the city of chasa thank you all for your consideration our team is here happy to answer any questions that you guys might have all right Brett um the burm let's right off on that when got a conditional use permit about a year ago obviously I understand not moving dirt until you feel comfortable in the development when is the anticipated time to start working on the burm so the burm as you know has to be done before we start vertical uh construction on the building we hope to start the burn end of this year early next year we like you said we didn't want to start the burm well in advance of the building the the timeline to receive power we're working with several agencies on that so it's been a it's been a process uh We've made good progress there but we didn't want to start the burm and then not be able to start the building for a long time because the receipt of power had been pushed out a year to a year and a half uh but to answer the question about the burm we hope to start that end of this year early next year we anticipate it'll take no more than one year to complete likely faster than that a lot of that depends on the dirt availability this is 300,000 cubic yards it's it's fairly significant you'll be doing the burm in tandem with like probably doing footings and foundation so burm will be done before vertical correct correct and when we start foundations is going to be dependent on when we have a tenant to take the building for a lot of reasons spec data centers speculative data centers don't really get built they're very Capital intensive they're fairly customized buildings it's not a good um use for the city to build a building this size that doesn't have a tenant to take the space for a lot of reasons so when we start foundations is going to depend on when we have a tenant to occupy the building we are making really good progress to that end and realize so you're doing this is a spec development basically or you're kind of a build to suit basically you're looking for whoever it may be meta Google Amazon correct we are we are a h hyperscale single tenant Builder there are only so many of those uh types of tenants that exist so we're having really good conversations with several of them there's one in particular tenant that has shown the most interest and that's the building we've designed is is um primarily based on their design but it can accommodate other tenants should we shift to that but uh to answer the question we would we would likely start the burm early when we feel strongly we're moving forward but we're not going to start Foundation or any vertical work on the building without assigned yeah yeah or or it's going to be eminent eminently signed yeah okay um I'm CH yeah absolutely go for I think you were the the person that spoke to US during conc I scribbled your name down my handr is really horrible okay so um my big concern with uh data centers is the the noise and Northern Virginia if that's you know that's an issue out there because of the how how tightly packed people are and how close some of those data centers are to residential areas and I suspect there's some folks from the neighborhood that Express similar concerns now they did do the noise analysis that was in the packet um and it was based on computer simulations um talked about the deciel levels but it didn't kind of address um the uh the frequency the and I I'll use an analogy yes a jet engine is louder than a mosquito but if that mosquito's in your ear 247 it's pretty darn impactful so can you talk a little bit more about um so you got the 30 foot BM great for Aesthetics to you know Shield some of the neighborhood but you have got a lot of equipment on the roof of that building so give us some confidence that that is a addressed and that the folks that live in that neighborhood aren't going to be listening to that 247 I mean Engler Boulevard's loud enough but um talk to us a little bit about the mechanics there absolutely so we have kimley horn and Tad as our sound experts so I definitely want to bring him up to talk more specifics about it but just speaking in in general terms uh as I'm not the sound engineer the projects that you speak of that are well advertised in nor Virginia do not have any sort of burm have much less Landscaping than we have and and those the equipment that you're speaking of the chillers that are on the roof are a different type of equipment than we're proposing to use here they're older there's there's been a lot of advances in technology in terms of sound mitigation techniques that are available to mechanical equipment since those were built and there's been a lot of rework by that particular tenant to to retrofit to um mean equipment now that is not causing that issue so I think part of that was a design um miscalculation part of it was just equipment has advanced a lot since then and I think this unique situation we're in with 30 feet burm and lots of Landscaping on it is a different profile than than that particular site but Tad you want to come speak specifically about more than just that he can talk about other noise related items yeah of course good evening y'all how you doing today um so nean oh yes sorry Tad Hardy with kimley Hornet Associates um and I am in our Charlotte North Carolina office at 200 South Tron Street um so yeah so as Brett was mentioning a lot of the things that are proposed as part of this development um from mechanical equipment standpoint are newer more technologically advanced quieter in some sense as well um the modeling that we did for this site took into count all the frequency Spectra that the manufacturers provided to us um and when that is input into the model we're able to kind of see what that looks like in the surrounding areas and the model also took into account the um the shielding that's provided from the barrier that's on top of the building the penthouse area um the birming itself so everything that that's been proposed as part of the site was included in the model to give confidence that the noise levels themselves weren't going to be impactful and based on the modeled output we were during a typical operational scenario where the rooftop coolers are running were below the nighttime Threshold at 100% you know operational status um the the coolers are proposed to be upfit with low sound fans across the board so that's another perk that's kind of already been then added in um and then also all the generators that are proposed to be on site will be upfit with hospital grade silencers that reduce various frequencies by anywhere from 35 DB up to 45 DB which once again keeps the noise levels in check and so when we looked at the full-blown emergency operational scenarios the silencers that are going to be on the um generators allowed the noise levels during those emergency situations to really only go up a couple decb um but we're still below the the state rued thresholds for um for noise levels within residential areas and then out the emergency scenario generators run every so often just as fast I would imagine or yeah so every generator has to be T it's a couple hours per generator but they only occur one at a time sure so only one generator would be tested throughout the year um so no more than one and yeah once again the the operations those testing periods are I think a couple hours two to three or two to five hours throughout the entire year so it might be one the first half or a couple hours first half couple hours second half of the year but they're only operating one at a time when they do that testing so then in this the in the major power outage then the generators come on you got medical grade silencers and you're still below the threshold you said you're below the threshold for statutory guidelines in a residential neighborhood yeah the Minnesota state rule has a limit of 50 during the night time for l50 which means 50% of a given hour you can't be above 50 and we were below that um if everything was operating for an entire hour so the chillers that you talk about that you did the modeling with has Cloud HQ actually installed any of these in any of your data centers before this Civic model I'm not 100% sure of [Music] um yeah thanks Ted so we actually have a project that we call lc4 which is where I work in Ashburn it's our newest large scale facility it's a three-story facility but the square footage is very s similar uh it it has the TIC uh dry chillers that we're talking about here installed there's residential right across the street it doesn't adjacent it's not directly adjacent like this uh project is but there's no burm in that case and we have not had any issues with that facility how adjacent are they it's across a four lane Highway and then so they would know any different because they have a four-lane highway highway in Northern Virginia I just I say that because obviously four lane highway is going to be a lot different than School Master drive so but do you have any other um comparable size data centers that are right next to residential we do uh we this close proximity to residential we do we have one in Ashburn and then our company the predecessor company did to in Illinois in Chicago that are basically across one is directly adjacent to residential one is across a a two lane road from residential and we have not had any noise complaints even during outage situations for either the the general noise of the fans or the the generator noise our program is a little different than some other Developers whereby we have the generators in enclosed structures other than in containers in a yard so yeah so they're fully enclosed correct different profile exterior to the building and they're inside correct so there's there's more options for noise mitigation one because they're encasing concrete but you can build in other types of systems that are different than what you would use some would use when you put them in containers in a mechanical yard for example sure um so Tad whatever the modeling showed for the noise can you give a for instance like a comparison of what level of you know they you know football stadium or you know hair dryer I mean do you have any idea um no I know but like trying to give you like a such right can you give me some sort of like so yeah when the when we were um wrapping up the modeling the the I guess the overall noise level for the typical operational scenario was about 47 and that would be like your dishwasher running in the kitchen while you're like around the corner so it's nothing that's scary um but yeah I mean it would be it would be similar to kind of the interior of your home minus a football game on the TV or something sure okay and so and then that's the I'll put of the the noise but then you have the distance trees the buring so that's what you're saying is you feel confident it's going to be quite contained yeah and and over time I mean we've talked about the maturing of the Landscaping over time the environmental noise that would I guess be part of the ambient noise environment insects birds wind in those trees would would likely be more dominant after the fact I mean it seems like you guys been very appreciated because we could do have residences you know and we have industrial areas where certainly truck traffic Logistics would be louder than this right manufacturing facilities and I'll say that I have not actually modeled a burm as large as what cloud is planning on putting in the largest I've done um was for an industrial site and it was a 25 foot burm and has worked wonders it's installed everything's operational and the fact that this one is larger is more landscaped it it's I mean it's once again above and beyond what I've seen and dealt with over the 12 years I've I've been doing Acoustics though so it's as good as the information you put into it so yeah and I I will just go with the you can make any answer you want with a computer bottle and obviously I'll hate to say it they wrote your paycheck so um they're getting the answer that they want so I'm going to be the skeptic on this one um and a dishwasher running all the time in my backyard is probably not something I want to hear either or just the confidence of knowing that that's a minimal annoyance um yes the Landscaping the buring yes they're trying to do everything we can but there's still the uncertainty of what if because what if the model is wrong what if the chillers don't work what if and that's what we're here for um and that's what I'm still concerned about because obviously we have that with any operation we we can't I mean obviously everything we do so so I for my side of things is yeah I would love to cut the building in Half reduce the sound reduce the burm I think a lot of this goes away but I don't think that's I don't think they're willing to do that because that's not their business we could have a manufacturing facility stamping metal but like what but I think the thing is we need to make sure that we put assurances in that the sound side of things isn't the problem because the residents here are here I the statute there's law well that's this but the state statuto is before data centers were created but nonetheless it's still sound if it goes above the sound it's still law there statutory law it's based on before data centers and data centers we know are different sounds I think there are already couple of data centers there right I mean yeah there's data C there's of them there I I think uh the biggest one is like one/ third of the size of the existing whatever they com together probably yeah probably the same I mean yeah half yeah or the footprint 700,000 is the footprint so it might be close to close to half of what they're proposing so definitely there might be some like visual proof we what is there if the data center is making that much of noise or something I us to live next to the United and those those data centers were world world I mean as they are saying like the technology definitely Advanced so I heard was angler yeah well I lived my backyard for years like it was fine for me so I know the what else what you're saying like but like CH pretty I mean you could do that with everything right the health one is older I assume this is much newer yeah exactly I mean much newer definitely will give more advanced technology and more noise reduction techniques and all these things in place so I don't see yeah any yeah that I would just say we can sit here and tell you we're going to do anything but until it's built we we can't really show that we're going to do it but my commitment to you is throughout construction and operations we're going to have both vibration and noise monitoring systems in place and I would welcome anybody to come out and test either one of those anytime and if we're not in compliance with the state with the city code so it's 55 DB daytime and 50 at night I believe we have to rectify that just like anyone else would have to rectify any other violation of code in the city at it talking about construction I'm sure you've talk with the city we're going to have concerns from Neighbors construction activity dust mitigation control got a full program for this for dust you know watering watering the dirt or construction site I mean what's what's the process yeah so um we're working with very well-known contractors that have worked in this area on big projects near residential so they're very familiar with again the the city and state level code requirements during construction hours of operation mitigation techniques that are required to make sure that there are not issues arising and if there are issues that there's means to to solve those so um again absolutely appreciate this is right next to a very ni residential Community there's going to be a lot of focus on that we want to be good neighborhood neighbors we want to be good stewards we we're gonna we've committed to continuing to monitor our project email address for any questions that that arise I look at that and our construction team looks looks at that daily so absolutely there's a program in place to make sure that doesn't become an issue but if those things do become an issue I would welcome the public to let us know and we'll work to address it as as we have to you're gonna have a public email address where people can email if they have an issue or complaint or we do actually already yeah it's chasa dasinfozentrum [Music] further questions for the applicant before we move on to neighbors or other visitors I mean some of the stuff that there discussed parking I understand it right landscape talked about um I would say on Landscaping I would like to see more of the large cap yes I mean the you say you have more percentage but the actual calipers are are missing so I I would much rather see you hit the calipers of the large size trees and if you miss on the lower ones fine but get the large trees in there and and start early versus but at the same time I we can put so many in the same that place right I if you try to put so many into that same space it might not sustain I mean they can put it but like three four months they they can't like keep on replacing we have to have the balance in that easily Fe possible exactly and that is also on the top of 30 ft most I mean it's not like a flat City will work with the applicant obviously on determining the final ratio of calipers and the landscape consultant or environmental engineer whoever it may be okay is there a question I'm sorry no I'm just saying you would work with yeah them and determining the appropriate large caliper that we don't have potential for Mass death of trees right yeah we've had a few conversations with their landscape architect team um to understand from their point of view and their expertise of what is the most sustainable uh caliber inch that they can get out there that can sustain at least long term uh as it grows in and and the the message we've been hearing from them is that four and a half is kind of the largest out there um and if you have further questions on that I'd probably want them to kind of speak to that but that's what we've heard it's not really a question it's more of the how can we get more of the four and a halfs and if they have to shy less of the twbs then fine you know it's like but way more towards the larger calipers and less of the smallers so um further questions for the applicant City one other piece on paring just to add it in the building I mentioned lc4 that's similar square footage is three stories but 1.4 million square feet that site has 150 spaces and we're proposing 235 here 150 has been plenty for that location we're fine with 235 but that's in Ashburn where there's 175 data centers so there's a lot of data about sorry how many a lot 35 in in ladden County I think there's about was 172 recently so what's the draw is there nuclear power or something or what's the deal goes back to the founding of the internet um May East which was the maor major fiber Landing started in in actually Fairfax County in a parking garage in a closet and then they expanded to the first uh to an entire office floor and they got to the point as the internet was was growing in the late 90s early 2000s they needed more space so they went to the county to invest in power and fiber infrastructure FX County wasn't really familiar with that data centers in general Laden County was still very much a rural area looking for growth in their commercial tax base so they invested in the infrastructure The Hub of May East moved to right down the street where from where I work L County Parkway in wax poool and that started the kind of snow and there's and and historically there's been a lot of benefits to having data centers near other data centers for latency purposes transactions that are either Financial based or customer facing benefit a lot from highspeed transactions we've kind the world is changing now because a lot of what is done is not customer facing it's it's Building Systems to power um different types of searches so that's probably more than you want to know but there's great tubes awesome you get the instant purchase yeah better to have data science next to each other for communication wise basically that's right it less latency between transactions that's right but you see you know huge hyperscale data centers in in not around anything else and those are kind of building the systems that support the customer facing programs so they don't need to be as quick because the they're not directly accessing you know a query on chat GPT or something like that so for us there was the parking which is a change but it's less and that makes sense there's the landscape we've talked about that there's the plat it's all one site and then the substation do we have any questions on the substation power okay uh anyone else like to address the commission now is your time the public hearing is still open there's one person online that has their hand raised so sure okay oh is that me I apologize uh the one question I my name is David leage I live on 1987 School Master Drive um I'm I bought up against the farm um I'm not sure I forget the farmer's name but um yeah so the burm so there there is a concern on my perspective from irrigation because we have a CT that goes on the backside so a burm is going to like when it rains for example right I mean I don't have this problem existing because I don't have a burm there um but when there is a burm there and it's going to be I guess maybe 100 or 150 fet from the back part of my property um that water is going to run off down into my overt I mean has have there been any considerations for um irrigation with a burn in that back facility um did you mean irrigation like do you mean like water runoff control yeah that that that's that's part of it yeah that's only part be more like sprinkler system do you mean control no no no no no no I'm talking about like water runoff yeah I mean like y storm like storm water runoff any it well I mean when it rains everything goes everything flows from school Master dive down into a culvert I I bought my house 17 years ago um from Town and Country and I guess you know soon divested to K havani and and um the the covert I'm like I'm kind of at like a well 1987 School Master drive I'm like most of the water kind of runs off off of the back 40 in my backyard effectively it runs off and and it flows from uh one side to the other um a burm is going to provide a lot more water in my back 40 and so I guess I'm concerned about like what is that I mean I have a sump pump in the back of my house I'm I'm just concerned or I'm asking if anyone has considered uh water runoff with a burn because basically if if you put a burm up on the backside of my even if it's 100 feet or 200 feet outside the water's gonna it's a hill right so it's gonna the water's gonna come run towards my house I think we got I think we have someone here that's gonna speak I I think we understand your concern yeah appreciate it I let uh someone try to address the question looks like here okay thank you good evening Commissioners chair my name is Trisha C and I'm a civil engineer with kimley horn um address is 11995 Single Tree Lane in Eden Prairie um to answer your question yes on the back side of the BM there's going to be a pretty significant Swale so from the properties from the houses I know they kind of go back you know a lot of them go back towards the cloud HQ property so there'll be a Swale that will collect you know not only the runoff that goes off of the the Residential Properties but also comes off of the burm um and then that sale either on the ends of it it will come around to the storm water treatment ponds or in the middle of the burm on the North side there's um dual culverts one for redundancy that will bring the storm water through so it has been um very thoroughly engineered and on some of the plans that are part of the packet it's there's a lot of Contours with a 30 foot burm but if you look closely at the Contours on the North side you'll see that there's whales that will carry that water either around are through I still think 30m I apologize for interrupting but I I I still think a 30 foot burm is not I'm not sure exactly where it was surveyed from it probably from the front porch but I mean if you if you were surveying from my street level for example like if you walked out into the front of my house 1987 School Master Drive um and you took a survey if you just pointed the laser like back um you would get a number which is like so a 30 foot burm actually by the time you get from my front to the back of my house I'm already 25 feet above the ground so once you get into my second Story I mean a 30 foot burm that's I'm not sure if you're expecting that that to um cover or if the point is that you should be hiding Cloud HQ on the backside 30 foot is not going to cover it on school master all right what was your name Again David leage David so are we switching questions now to visibility no no no no I'm just no I'm just I'm just I'm just making a point that's all um yeah I'm just trying to I'm just trying to understand for the commission because you were talking about the water I think she answered your your question absolutely thank you for the water question yes I did switch question I just want to close the loop on what your question was and that it was answered or not yeah no it was answered thank you yeah fantastic but yeah I mean I I definitely have to I probably will sell my house in like a very short period of time just because I'm I'm actually not really super fond of plans I mean I like I mean I work in uh software and I work you know I have a lot of different things and but um yeah it's kind of encroaching on my um property so yeah I mean I I think your plans sound good but I just I personally have concerns so thank you Shar would you like me to try to respond to the if you can elevation question yeah so the the burm and then actually wanted to um speak anyway to answer your earlier question about the height of the burm and if it's consistent so I think they they tie in together um so everything the burm height where we say it's like 30 feet plus or minus one foot so it was very consistently 30 feet um where you'll see it like from if you're looking at it in the Horizon it'll look like it's going like this CU that's how the existing grade goes and we're measuring it from the property line like from that Northern property line so from that property line it's gonna be 30 feet okay and then some of the renderings if you look closely at what we did with the crosssections the crosssections show that line of sight from like you know Midway up what would be the house like we have the Contours for where you know some representative Lots go up and we show that line from what would be approximately like the the main floor the you know not the basement but kind of the main floor so we we tried to be really considerate and take that into consideration that we know a lot of these are like walkouts right so we looked at that line of sight from what would be like you know your kitchen window yeah yep and so it actually is going to follow the 30 ft will actually follow the natural grade so it'll be it's kind of yeah so I think it'll look nice instead of looking like it's you know straight across right so there'll be some natural variation right trees into at different height correct yep yeah got it thank you y thank you thank you as well hey how you doing uh yes Bren chinik 1957 School Master Drive um yeah Brent uh David thanks for for sharing um I I live probably down the street from him um couple of questions for for Crow HQ um the building is going to be 72 feet high is that include any of the chillers and things that go on top or is that height go on top of that that's everything that's everything yeah that's the very tip of it okay everything enclosed everything's inside okay um are there any lights that are going to be at the top I know the parking is going to be on the north side of this um I think the current centers are pretty well lit up in the parking lot we're going to throw a bunch of lights up there and that's going to light up the whole sky and the whole neighborhood on the backside caros yeah or even the city night building go ahead Carlos cting with Cloud HQ over see the Civil structure and Architectural that's arch for for cloud um so for lighting in general we we try to match sustainability concerns as well for for lead and others and some of those requirements also require down lights and and some considerations for bird control and then so there are some considerations as the design progresses to address some of the the lighting um pollution the I think they answer I think I saw this in the packet isn't the max height like 20 feet or 30 and it's down lighting yep there's not going to be lights at the top of the building no at least that's not what the photometric plan plans they're going to be doing shows the light yep down lighting um like mid height of the building or lower right it's right y around 18 ft y okay so if that answers your question brand it's not there's not lights on top of this it's not going to be like a helicopter pad or whatever yeah there's minimal life safety lights in [Music] the that's good great um I did want to kind of echo David's response I think looking at all of the school master how that's set up right now all of the Lots kind of slope down yeah um I know all the Lots next to me get drainage issues that's a huge problem so I'm glad that's being addressed but um frequently when it rains a lot of the backyards flood um and if there's a burm there that's causing extra rain water that's going to be a huge problem um but yeah I'd be interested to know more if if the 30 feet burm is going to be from the edge of the property my property line for my house probably drops down 20 feet so there's not going to be much of a burm there I know we're going to put some trees on top of it but from my bedroom window I'm going to be able to see Cloud HQ and the front entrance and everything um I know we're going to have some trees there but they're not going to be mature for another 20 years or 15 years that's a huge problem I don't know if we're trying to hide it like like he said but um the the 30 foot burm sounds huge right but it's it's not that big because we're going to be starting from a a pretty low spot um and the the facility itself is in a pretty low valley I can kind of look down on that as it is today um I don't know maybe taking a look at holistically what is what is this whole gradient and and 30 feet is um the the amount of drop that we're seeing already and terrain there I think you're going to have full view of cloud HQ um and it sounds like it's not going to be Cloud HQ it's going to be sold to somebody else that's going to be responsible for actually meeting some of these regulations thanks uh we have one person in line as well okay Dave you're welcome to start talking okay good evening everyone I'll uh just uh share my my screen here um you iess capability for that I have to send a request you to share my screen I don't think we allow that from a policy standpoint we don't allow okay to be shared well that's too bad because I got about 25 slides um okay well I'll go into my Spiel it be it would have been a lot better you because many of us are really visually oriented and what we're talking about here is uh is visual very is visual so um so my my name is David Riley I uh live at 1977 School Master drive and I uh I'm I'm a civil engineer you know I uh I'm registered uh professionally licensed in the state of Minnesota for 22 years and uh I sat on uh the Planning Commission right where all of you are are sitting at right now for for three years and it was uh really a way for me uh to give back to my community and uh and so I appreciate what you're all doing tonight and and giv back to your community I'm sure you have things U on Wednesday night that you could be doing with your your family and friends or Hobbies what have you so um just I do recognize that and do appreciate it uh first point I do want to touch upon is that um you know this is a three-step process right we go concept preliminary Final in addition there's things like these zoning amendments that um it require public hearings you it's public input all the way along and um and the Comm that you make as a u you know planning commissioner is that you don't prejudge and I I hear a number of you have already predisposed U uh an opinion you here you know and uh it's not for your Charter you that this is a public hearing that um the contractor or the developer here with Cloud HQ they're at risk because if you do have an open mind and you hear these neighbors and and what we're we're we're telling you is that U uh you should be unbiased and uh objective and um that if you do that there is a you know more than a 50% chance that you're not going to approve the uh particularly the zoning amendments that they're requesting here tonight so um you as I leave that with you and please you know don't take it as a personal affront it's just U you know the the truth and and and the fact of the matter so um you listen with an open mind with what I'm going to tell you you know I uh you talk about you know this 72 feet being discussed at the concept level and and I uh I would have been at the meeting I I was you I'm trying to think back of it I was on a cruise in a different time zone in world and you know what I I was Reliant upon you as Commissioners to uh to do what's right and vet this out and uh so you 72 feet you may have talked about it for five minutes or 10 minutes but I tell you what I've lived in this property uh you know for 17 years and uh and I followed you this process you know very closely and 17 years is worth a lot more than the 5 to 10 minutes that you discussed it at the concept level so let me tell you a little bit about Clover Ridge all right da Dave yeah I think we your p in the submission and we have reviewed it and we have a packed crowd so I would like if it's kind of you've been on the commission I appreciate your input fellow commission no Rob I'm not going to be cut off I'm going to take my time this is a public hearing and I've spent significant amount of time not only communicating with staff and verbally as well as in writing and now this is my opportunity to talk to you as the commission I will I will I will proceed as J efficiently as possible but no one's there a number of points that I need to make Dave I understand that I just want to say up front please um you know stick to the main points if it's been discussed before kind of same deal that you know that we when you were on the commission as well I will I will tell you that I I have personally went door Todo with my neighbors and I speak for them and by you letting me letting you you when hearing me out this meeting will go more efficiently well if you're trying to overt talk me then it won't so we have a crowd here we have other people on the agenda we have two other action items and they're patiently waiting as well so I you know if you can get to the things that are a problem and it hasn't been discussed already we'd love to hear them but you know we do have other people and for respect of other people in this crowd tonight they would like to have their action items up as well you know what Rob I've lived here 17 years you're in my backyard and I'm I'm G to tell you tell you what I want to tell you so that's fine I appreciate that all right so yeah the uh if I roll down through here and I do appreciate what what um what Brent and Tad you had to offer and I appreciate your your professionalism and knowledge um you know some things that you got to understand is is you know the size of this building I've got visual aids I mean this thing's massive right so uh you know the uh you if you think about US Bank Stadium this this building is uh you square footage of it is 2 and a half times what US Bank Stadium is and so that's what's going in our backyard so so think of that scale the uh you know we talk about um you know my neighbors make a great point that all of our houses are actually at the street level or higher so when you when you think about a 30 foot burm and and the the Landscaping on top it's the the visual um your AIDs that you're providing are just not to scale and representative so you're saying that they've misrepresented the scale on this they they have it it doesn't work and you so so if you think about with like what p id7 is is the it's a commitment to the neighborhood is is to provide an area for offices and clean and quiet and and I think they're theyve adequately talked about quiet industrial related uses that can be developed and operated in a high quality phys physical environment one that complement and is compatible with the natural beauty found along West chasa Creek and it's adjacent residential developments so you know what we're talking about like I said is you this building that is massive and then it's also seven stories tall you talk about 72 feet think of the scale of 72 feet sstory office building you know the uh 212 Medical Center is stories tall that they just uh put the the height Edition on so not only is it massive it's tall right and so what my neighbors are telling you is um you just from common sense you we're going to see probably the top 25 feet of this building you you for the foreseeable future if not forever and it's it's not a building when this thing is 15 you know 100 feet long it's a wall you're looking at a wall that nor and you know so you know the zoning you was there to protect us from this type of scenario the zoning was put in place as a way to find a compatible use of that property with our residential neighborhood I can tell you what I'm Savvy at this right I'm in this this business so before we bought our house you know ours was a speck home from kovanian we it was built before we uh purchased the house I called you know Kevin who was the planner at the time and I had the conversation Hey Kevin what's happening in that field back there you know and and specifically was told 300t buffer 30ft tall burm that's going to be landscaped and the building are going to be limited to 36 ft so I my wife's in the audience there and she can attest to it that when we were with our Realtor we stood up in the upstairs bedroom the you the two of us with our Realtor and I described that scenario to her I said hey the these are all the things that are going to happen we're going to look over the top of that building it's okay and then you know you know we're 17 years later and we've seen three other data centers you'll get built out there and every time I've I've had that conversation with her you probably a dozen times no it's it's okay it's going to be okay they're going to build the burm when they do that last that last data center we and we're going to be done looking at these other three because we're going to look right out over the top of them and that's not at the case of what you've proposed the cloud h2q has now got a a burm with the top top 20 ft of a build a wall that we're going to look at so don't again don't you come in predispose that because you had a five or 10 minute conversation at concept you point that it overrides you know 17 years of commitments and discussions and you could see even up until the time Cloud H2 came it was 36 ft so they they came into this wide open um roll down through yeah I do appreciate the discussion about the noise that that you have using the state of art technology that you understand the aerodynamics of the fan systems on the uh on the coolers and that you're making a commitment to us that uh you're going to meet that 50 uh DBA uh requirement um you the low frequency is a big deal so T when you're modeling I hope that you said you're taking into account the low frequency I hope you're talking 50 DBZ where where the the DBA is waited for the uh for noise you know protection of you know workers not environmental noise so I uh I'm Rel lying on your expertise that you're not you know leading us astray there uh timing of the construction burm you know there's um the current condition for yeah I think the intent is is correct that um the installation of the burm and its Landscaping to be completed prior to or at the same time of the building site construction I'd like that the uh uh commission to add um just at the end and prior to commencing building Foundation construction because this uh this industry is fickle and uh you we don't want to we want to make sure as a neighborhood that this burn is is built and landscaped before that building building starts and and that's been discussed multiple times over the years so PRI so add and prior to commencing build buing Foundation construction so i' appreciate that all right construction impacts um I think Brett mentioned it they 300,000 cubic yards of earthwork um that's a project right that's probably you know there's they're say like they're saying that's the biggest burm they've ever built and I and I I recognize that and I'm guessing it's a $10 million burm by the time they build it and Landscape it um and do appreciate that and I think the city had foresight 20 years ago when they you laid this all out um to um to incorporate it so what it means during to us as neighbors is that you with an average tandem acdal dump truck that's 20,000 loads of of of dirt that's going to come into that site 20,000 loads of dirt and they're going to do it in 10 months so that's that's as a contractor that's what you want to do you want to get after it right so what does that mean that means a truck's going to enter that site every 3 minutes for 10 months during the workday so think about that so da is there is there a something that You' like addressed yeah so fugitive dust I I want to they they I want to stress the importance of so appreciate that again for the savings of time for other people here can with instead of the narration of the dump trucks coming and no no to there's people within the Comm Planning Commission that don't understand that perspective and for them to make a full and informed decision they need to hear me Dave I I I hear you I'm not trying to be confrontational but I want you to get all your uh concerns out so we can hear them yeah I'm probably three quars of the way there if you stop cutting me off I'll get there okay so less narration please I I'm trying to be respectful I want other just tell us your points so we telling you hear them I'm telling you all right so the you fugitive dust I you kimley horn I want you to make sure that you're I assume you're going to be the construction manager I want you to have strong language with your general contractor to make sure it's addressed you know same thing with the uh the construction noise when you have 20,000 dump trucks yeah you've got to be have in your specs things like no back backup alarms backup alarms are 95 to 110 DB they will they will kill you and and the city has been great in discussions that they're going to use their Hammer they they've said that they will shut you down if uh if there's issues with noise or dust or vibrations so so no backup alarms make sure that the the uh um the tailgates on the trucks you have padding that they're you being d ENT you know with the um with the truck drivers that they're coming to a stop before they you know close you bring the bed down uh be careful with um vibratory equipment out there you know um and and don't use the vibrators on the dump truck beds um don't use track to quit dozers if you can imagine running you every 3 minutes dumping a truck and then having a dozer backing up with um with with steel tracks those things are tremendously allow so put in your contract those types of things to make sure that they're using rubber tired uh rubber tract equipment please do that for us foundations don't use driven pile go with something like micropile you so think about your design relative to um you know construction means and methods so neighborhood relations the things that as a neighborhood we want we want to have a monthly meeting with you and your general contractor at City Hall to meet with uh representatives of our neighborhood so that we can have a relationship through the course of construction we request that of you so these are my requests to you as the Commissioners so is one is you don't approve this owning Amendment you know you're you know this this is a you a billion dollar investment right they have a uh capitalization rate of probably about 8% and they're going to do you know $80 million of uh Revenue a year out of that facility and you know this is all driven by the availability of power which is tremendous it's unbelievable they get that power in there but it can't be at the cost of us as uh as the residents and and and and and break the what we think of as the neighborhood of the Covenant of that zoning that includes the 36 ft I ask the second one I ask that you revise the condition for to include prior to commencing building Foundation construction that they finish that landscape burn third youo is to include a condition for the 50 DBZ into the zoning Amendment which you can do which protects us in the future they're they Comm to us that that's possible it's not honorous it's not something that we're imposing on them but to make sure that future tenants and future uses comply with the same commitment that these developers at Cloud HQ are already committing to us so put that right into the zoning Amendment if you do proceed forward the other thing is the trees keep the trees on the site put the trees on the back side of the BM they do have value to us trees attenuate noise trees are not only there for the visual uh you know attenuation for us but they're there for the noise attenuation and having that additional 150t width of trees is valuable to us as a neighborhood don't go put them in West chasa somewhere or Southwest chasa and take away the part of the noise of mitigation that those trees are intended for for keep the trees on the site uh we want the neighbor as I said we want the neighborhood monthly meeting and uh and I and kimly Horn you know you're going to make sure that you using state-of-the-art technology you're putting in strong specifications that not only protect us as a neighborhood but they protect your client because their reputation is very important to us they want to continue to develop these things all over the world world and the last thing they want is our neighborhood documenting you know a poor experience with them that you carries forward into their future development opportunities so with that I do appreciate your time Rob I'm sorry I've been controver or confrontational with you but this is important this isi I'm not a confrontational person but this I hope reflects to you how critical this is to me personally as well as my neighbors so thank you for hearing me out thank you okay I'm going to close the public is there anyone else in the crowd that like to speak on this closing the public hearing at 909 um for City for staff um backup alarms it's actually fairly good have alarms on large dump trucks but um requirement I would assume I assume it's a requirement by law Department oan right so again I don't think it's probably possible but something to take a note of just talk of construction or developer yeah so one of the things that we talked about with the conditional use permit that was awarded for the burm um was you know circulation through the site to limit the need to back up right and I think that would be a strategy you know here to to go forward the conditional use permit still those conditions are still relevant you can't get rid of the backup alarms right I mean I assume that's got to be we to say that what's that believe it's OSHA required okay so just look into that um I think we already talked about the burm It's seems like as if it's going to be done or pan I don't know what the difference of the foundation or not where Dave's concern work with develop developer on that I think that would be just see what the timing is sounds like the burn might even be done before well before uhing out 10 yeah I mean that's the nature of the condition I guess if Planning Commission feels that you want to get more specific with it I mean they did talk about that it would be done before the walls went up so it's like it's more of the you know defend Foundation or walls so yeah because the burm is more of a sight line thing I mean I guess it does knock some noise but it's going to be dumb so I I hate to get into the dictating how their construction project goes same thing with like not doing piles like that's I think outside of our jurisdiction of you know telling them how that they can construct a building and what it may or may not need do geo geo you know geotechnical engineering that is required well we did but I I would say why would we have it as a condition then of you know the BM is completed prior to or at the same time Y and that was in our concept as well right but that's the part where right um I'm was speaking more on the terms of the construction itself like how they construct it whether the pile or not um wasteful the trees I don't know if again more more study if if it if a sound attenuation expert thinks that it would help then maybe they some do go on that other side of the BM but I'm outside my league here I don't know I guess the the question to the staff are you looking for us recommendation wise as into which direction we want you to go on that between more trees on the lot versus the tree bank is that I mean are you looking for us to give recommendation on which direction to go that's always right so if if you know we're presenting our recommendation if you feel that it should go a different direction and that's that's the proog of the Planning Commission to provide that input so me I'm fine either way is but if there's no benefit for site or sound attenuation I'm not a sound expert I think they should look into what benefits the site better and then go that direction and so if like take it out I would say take that piece out of the um let's see well because I be this is the part it's take out the bank because if if there let's say there's no more trees or needed on the site because it doesn't really change the sound they would still like to have the trees if there it was their idea to offer more trees to the city to fulfill their requirement right so I would I would just want to have it be whatever helps the site better for the residents right Sight and Sound Sight and Sound s sound and so if that's that means putting more trees on the the BM on the side not visible to the residence because it cuts down sound then great you know then we could do that yeah absolutely right I mean that makes sense but yeah but it's back to the part where why would be including the minimum landscape requirement inass yeah it sounds like the noise expert in the room may have me see relevant to that question that uh Tad right yes it's correct so what do you think Tad basically with where the operational equipment is it's not on the ground level it's elevated up where it's located versus maybe the other typical data centers where they have mechanical yards on the ground the additional trees along the burm aren't going to do anything in this case don't think so no no if if if all the mechanical equipment generators coolers were Ground mounted then sure it would be a different density of vegetation that could reduce noise further but where it's currently set up being the top of the berm and down yeah actually helps because of the way that noise travels so that the way it's set up now is is ideal versus wasting landscaping and trees on the backside and with the silencers and the decibel levels um again there's statutory code here so I don't think I'm going to over I would I mean can't speak on beh of everyone here in the commission overrule what statutory level is and put something in our our our you know our code or our preliminary approval tonight but with the way it's generated I mean is it is it even going to get that far I mean are you fairly confident the level it is is are we he's saying that's they hit 47 Deb on like to like be be heard past the burn yeah that's the whole that the whole technically it it can be heard just given the fact that it's an a new thing like it's a new building with different operations and what's out there today but in comparison to the existing noise levels that were measured out in the field a couple years ago yeah um it's compatible it's not extremely high over what was measured because we measured l50 levels that ranged within the neighborhood from I believe it was about 40 up to 48 I think and so on the high end we're right about the same um from an operational standpoint and just with noise addition it's it's not 48 plus 48 equals what 96 right it's a minute add-on um because noise is logarithmic and so the perceptible change in noise is anticipated to be minimal so basically from ambient noise if you'd call it that to what it would be okay and so you're you're of the opinion I'm going to trust you as a professional here that the trees on the inside of it wouldn't help sound attenuation greatly it would be a very minimal because if we're going to have all these extra trees I would like to have them for if if it helps great then I'm all for putting them there if it doesn't then we should use them elsewhere yeah I mean and the general rule of thumb is that in order to have a noticeable reduction in noise with vegetation you need a 100 plus foot thick you know vegetation in place and with this we're talking about kind of flat line of sight now we're in this I guess in this scenario we're talking about a burm where you've got noise being generated on the roof basically and the additional vegetation that would be put up on the backside of the BM is going to do nothing thank you so s St so make sure that I'm I'm hearing this right so based on your modeling with firm the trees the Landscaping the Mechanicals the silencers that ultimately there's going to be no increase in the deciel level with the data center to the neighbors and the the predicted increase was about two DB or it was just under two DB which to the human ear is deemed barely perceptible if if not at all so what would it take to make it so that there's no difference so specification and is that even on the low frequency side of things I mean I get the model factored in the manufacturer you know frequency data from a noise Mission standpoint so I mean it looked at the spectral data that was provided from them and put in our model so it's I mean it's it's looking at all that gory you went out to the existing data centers I used to live next to one and I never heard anything and so I just all I heard was angler yeah right well and and the reason why I'm I'm saying this is because obviously large dat yeah of course I just talking for like the crowd I just wanted to reiterate like my personal experience CH gory wented the existing four centers and and really kind of my my what I'm kind of recommending is the fact that we should put a stipulation saying it's like they should be held to making sure that they don't increase the decimal level what no no no not statutory not statutory to what the current neighborhood is because he sayings like they're right about where they're at right now I just we're off the topic from the trees the whole thing was about the trees well it's all noise trees trees absorb noise and he he said that the trees adding trees to the back saying like if I understand right the place where we are adding the trees that makes the difference I mean if you want to put more trees like the other side of the BM that doesn't impact anything that's what all this discussion is about right so I mean if it is not impacting anything and at the same time as as we discussed I mean it's about like uh uh sustainability and the space and everything we need to consider just not for the sake of keeping it there we can't recommend to keep it more keep more trees over there right that's also we need to think about it that that's so question for City real quick the way that it's written in here if we leave it alone if it is determined later even though it says it's not that trees there would be impactful to help sound you had the discretion at that point with the Landscaping plan working with them to put some more trees there we don't have to dictate it right I mean if it's if it winds up being helpful you guys can work on get submitting that landscape plan with more trees there is that correct think the intent is that you know Liz pointed out in her presentation there's some areas that you know staff have identified to continue to work on from a visual perspective right um I think I'm hearing here that if there's an opportunity that the Landscaping could further uh you know assist with reduction of noise um that the preference would be that that more Landscaping be added to the site I think we can work with Cloud HQ to test that uh with the model that that they've been using right um and see if there's an opportunity there it's sounding like that's probably unlikely um but we can you know verify that uh you know as we're working towards a final plan um and if we do see that there's an opportunity there I think it's you know I'm hearing pretty strongly that that that would be one that you would prefer I think if you know if that's not proven out through the modeling um you know that that opportunity to look for other opportunities for that Landscaping as an offset remains right yeah any questions for City staff no I just wanted to add upon on one comment like talking about like 36 ft height and all those things right uh yeah the 36 ft building I mean we discussed like more than half hour about this height and all those things I I still remember that because 36 feet is allowed in normal circumstances now here they are proposing another 36 more that is the reason why we uh discussed more about the BM if they just wanted to go with 36 ft they might not even discussed about the BM and they didn't even put any effort to put the bomm there they don't need it to I guess right I mean coming to that point of view like definitely we did have a lot of discussion I think staff has provided enough information why they wanted to uh initially they proposed I think 20 ft BM and then staff recommended them to put more like around 25 30 ft that's where we had like big discussion about that that's what I remember I mean it's not like just staff suggested 72 ft yeah we agreed and all those things we did discuss a lot if I remember right I mean so just like 36 without a BM and 30 additional feet with Landscaping we kind of agreed on that yeah okay that might mitigate whatever the big building or whatever the lineup sight and all those things so definitely staff has provided enough information I definitely say that I mean it's not like we they just provided and we just say okay for that right right thank you uh any other commissioner discussion okay I do have I mean I do want to come back to the sound side of things and making sure that we do include in the Amendments within the Zone zoning side of things to make sure that the sound side of things what do you want to include and I I would recommend that we put in something where they we measure something right now as we create a threshold or create a baseline where the neighborhoods that are budding that property and find the measurements and not what they were in 2022 but what they are now and use that as the Baseline and saying that when it's all under the threshold why do we need to worry about it yeah I don't think we it's not our place to do that law we don't do that to Industrial properties with logistic centers manufacturing facilities thing is they statut right to beow a certain level but those were set before data centers dat miles away from it I drive by it all the time I never hear it well but you don't that's put yourself now put yourself in that in your backyard and that's going to be now your presence every day for the next 40 50 years are agencies that control to put it like weate and right now what does what does Minnesota have right now for that to to regulate data suppers and data center sound McDonald's manufacturing facility now specifically now specifically data centers and it doesn't matter what it isal property just so so cities that have had data centers have not had sound problems they just talked about one sure but if if there's a problem then then it gets regulated it's like a state level issue if I say like okay I mean there is industry industry over there that might be producing more noise and depend I mean it's it's not just like data centers if we just compare this data center with some real industry right I mean that might be more uh noisy it's all like uh I don't feel like we don't have any threshold or any number to say hey you can't exceed 50 or something like that without having that number or that that thing we can't put any condition right you can't exceed more than 50 DB or something I don't think we are in a position to put that because we are not defining those numbers it's over regulation why do we need to be involved in more regulation when the industrial buildings went in we didn't go well you can't have industrial activity here and it's got to be the same sound as it is before like that's completely arbitrary they created the PID they said 36 and that was what everybody and now they come in 72 it was in concept well we could put it to a vote you can descend from it that's and that's what the process works that is how the process work there two votes right I know but there's two motion yep uh I will make a motion to approve the preliminary site and building plan preliminary PL and conditional use per the new substation PC 20 24-13 subject to the following 13 conditions okay second all in favor I I opposed motion carries uh then with that we need a motion to recommend approval of the zoning ordinance amendment to p7 based on the draft ordinance second I'll make a motion to approve it second second all those in favor I awesome I opposed n motion carries thank you for everyone that's here two more yeah there's two more action items I meant thank you for everyone that's here with Cloud HQ um it's been two and a half hours I anyone need a five minute break bathroom anything good thank you no okay noise is noise it doesn't matter if it comes from a manufacturing facility or meta Center it could be all kind of different dat Cent it's listen listen you you take the negative you're glass half empty guy you're thinking he's on the goal he's telling you that's not true I'm trusting the expert that going to be within the deci that's arbitrary to say like oh you can't have model are that's a really dangerous precedent your setting like that's all of it every development going forward it's not just data Cent manufactured facility residential neighborhoods this is just Eagles and Hawks and people can't even live in their own backyard and have for whatever we wanted to yeah what I'm saying is you listen can we go to action item s 7B please you want to check back oh yeah same you need to have that discretion between like exactly you see the screen in front of you yes we can see it okay wonderful just can't see color no color T dying oh really lost it's color wheel okay I don't think it matters for this one okay um 700 we're we're going to Dive Right In uh we have a zoning ordinance Amendment in front of us for the entity known as debat uh that are wishing to locate in the address uh known as one 1230 chasa Creek Way this is being proposed by chasa industrial owner 1 LLC so the site in question is highlighted in blue on this aerial exhibit um and also where I'm showing my cursor if you can't see the blue um but it is an existing industrial building located just uh directly south of angler Boulevard um and west of chesa Creek Boulevard in uh the area that was previously planned uh or plan for a high be on the corner site here there's an an existing uh medical office building on the corner of angler and chesa Creek Boulevard and an additional industrial building that was built with the north industrial building in question tonight um uh that's existing out there uh so the building that's in front of us and what the zoning ordinance amendment is highlighting is uh 12:30 chasa Creek Way which is also known as lot one block one chasa Creek Center Third Edition uh this property is in a zoning District known as a pmd2 or planed multiuse District um back in January of 2021 is when the preliminary plan and the rezoning was completed for this building in the south building to be rezoned to pmd2 um and then March of 2021 is when their final plan was approved um and both buildings have been constructed since that time uh debat uh is a baseball and softball uh training facility um they wish to locate in this North building uh 12:30 chasa Creek Way uh so the request this evening is specifically a zoning ordinance amendment to pmd2 to include baseball softball training facility use within that zoning District uh the comprehensive plan uh guides this overall site uh for business park um and as a part of the definition of um Business Park in our comp plan um just to shorten it it does allow for supporting retail and services uh within the business park uh District um and specifically calls out Healthcare and fitness as one of those supporting services um the current zoning District uh permits the following uh for this building as office and Manufacturing warehousing facilities not including distribution centers uh so uh a training facility or recreational use is not specifically called out in the Sony district and hence why they are requesting an amendment to the zoning District um to get into what the entity um or use really entails and the building that they're locating in um so debat is a national company that specializes in baseball and softball training facilities um they do have locations in over 150 places across the country uh they specialize in first class training facilities uh providing instructors camps and Clinics um uh for those open to the public so it's not specific to a a group or a team or anything like that uh so people are able to use the facilities for how they're built um the building itself um is approximately 133,000 square feet total uh they do the North and we're talking about the north building here uh they do have one available vacant space uh within this building that is approximately 24,000 square ft which is uh roughly the size that um debat typically looks for for their training facilities um they would propose 18 to 21 batting cages um and these typically uh are uses that need that extra clearance height within the building so that's why this building is suitable for their needs um it would employ 20 to 25 people um which entails roughly 30 stalls to accommodate both the employees and visitors to the site that uh they would generate um opening hours they would be open daily um uh during the 10:00 a.m. to later hours on the weekdays um in Saturdays and then on Sundays 12:00 P P.M to 6: PM uh their peak hour times um are mainly after 400 p.m. on the weekdays and between 12:00 and 6:00 on the week ends uh so something that's a little bit more offset to kind of your typical office or industrial user uh we did have them evaluate the the parking at this location to understand if the the parking um requirement for this type of use could be accommodated at this building um based on the existing users and the proposed use uh for recreation um it would require 302 parking stalls um uh 2 25 of which um are already constructed 77 are shown as proof parking um so the site can accommodate the parking need uh for this use and I do also want to note that when they were approved for their final plan in 2021 for these buildings this specific building in site was able to accommodate 410 stalls if need needed just to clarify are they going to build more stalls or is it already Noe they're they they can already accommodate based on the the parking out there today uh the 302 is based on our parking code requirement um and they've been able to evaluate that there's more than enough accomodated existing and proposed uses uh the buildings um are in a tiff District uh tax increment Finance District uh uh there are certain limitations on how how much use outside of the manufacturing warehousing research and development um uses are allowed um uh within a tiff District because the per purpose of a tiff district is to create uh large manufacturing type users that bring in uh a a bigger portion of jobs within the city um so that's why there's uh that statuto uh requirement in there in terms of how much outside of those uses um are allowed in Tiff districts so there's a 15% limit on uses outside of um qualified uses for a tiff District uh which this use would be an unqualified use um and would be in that 15% threshold um based on the size that they're proposing out there and what's existing today um they're at 8 8% uh with this size of facility so they are within the threshold of the district so it doesn't pose a concern uh with uh the layout of the district today uh so specifics to the amendment um the permitted uses for this building include office and Manufacturing warehousing facilities not including distribution centers the amendment uh would propose the following change to the permitted uses as shown in red um so there would be an ad for the baseball softball sports training facility not to exceed more than 25,000 square feet of the building and not to include tournaments which is is mainly more of a parking piece that um is not associated with this use um so we haven't had that ability to evaluate that so that's why that specific pieces called out um so that is the specific change and Amendment um being proposed here uh to include this use um based on our analysis of the proposed use um uh staff understands it to be a supportive use to the business park um it is visible to Major roadways which is pretty um important for recreational type uses um it also meets the comp plan guidance for The Limited uh amount of secondary uses uh within this area um and also meets the thresholds of the Tiff District defined here um so in conclusion we as staff believe the use proposed in its limited form um in terms of How It's stated uh is reasonable and with that uh we are asking you to make a motion to recom recommend approval of the zoning ordinance Amendment for debat based on the draft ordinance and if this uh were to proceed this evening it would also go to Council on Monday October 21st thank you Liz um I'll make a couple quick comments and then for City in for just commission so I'm very familiar with these types of uses that they're all across the Twin Cities these are the buildings they go into whether it's climbing walls batting cages gymnastics uh tumbling for for you know um just all various types of Fitness type uses they go into these Warehouse buildings I think it's very appropriate um matter of fact I would like you know going forward maybe the city can think about when we open up districts like this that this rather than going through the process of a zoning Amendment it can be a conditional use you know when we do some sort of industrial use going forward this is such a common thing see it all across the twin CI that a conditional use permit is typically what you have to get through the city on this I know that this was approved specifically with this district and we kind of have this a lot right for each development food and specific use for whatever's going in there and we kind of control it um so you know and in any in in all actuality I I'd almost rather see it expanded and say that you know Recreational Sports rather than just baseball softball again we're pigeon ho holding just this use for this so let's say you know they happen to have gymnastics you know the next building next year we're doing this again where they could have just you know maybe it's a conditional use permit so that's just my thought out loud there for City St I think it's kind of the same thing I that that particular um location's been empty for quite a while though part of it right well the building is is been there two years has that building been there almost two years probably yeah probably they're down to this one vacancy it looks like hey Liz do you know of the other tenants in the building or even in that complex where are the employee counts and average wages um I don't know that offand um sorry say commission employee accounts and average wages basically trying to get to the point of what are we giving up for allowing this special use because the other alternative is to not allow this and actually put in what the intended use was for that space and to me that's the part where knowing what is actually in the space and what it actually brought in would be good to know and space is probably something not that space But the other four answer I was trying to see if the table that we put together had those values but I'll let the applicant speak but I'll just say from my personal experience generally speaking these uses are heavily more employed than you had 20,000 square foot Warehouse user withing you know you're picking and packing maybe you have four or five employees something like this you're gonna have a lot more so it's probably more jobs but they put 20 this has 20 at 18 employ to 25 employees and there might be other specialty people that they bring in or instructors beyond that 20 to 25 is what they've said so that's public hearing I'll open it up at 9:44 if the applicant like to step forward evening everyone I'm Matt crew I live at 70201 61st Street in cge BR I'm the owner of debat in Lake Elmo so another one of these on the other side of town um and uh yeah so just reiterate a couple of things that we already said so we are uh not affiliated with the club not affiliated with any associations you know we're open to the public um we have kids that come in they're five years old all the way up to 80y olds literally we have people that are guys that are soft pitch uh or slow pitch softball players that come in they're literally 80 years old they do the so the pitching machines they do uh slow pitch as well um so any of you guys think that you maybe missed your mark in the major leagues or fast pitch circuit you know we can maybe get there we don't we don't guarantee that but we do we do train all ages mostly 5year olds to 14 year olds um as far as the question I think in terms of jobs so yeah typically 20 20 to 25 a lot of those are independent contractors so they're coming in they're doing instructions for us so we have in Lake Elmo anyone from uh a couple of people that played in the major leagues for for years down to like D3 former college players that are giving instructions uh pay rates anywhere from $25 an hour up to $50 an hour um and then we have general managers uh assistant general managers couple owners myself and my wife are the owners so pretty pretty good paying jobs you know I think uh the more you do lessons the more you you make in terms of income so um yeah I can ask answer any other questions but it's it's a fun business it's it's one that I'm proud of I'm proud to be a part of it's it's fun um we see a lot of hear a lot of stories about kids that come in and last year they didn't hit the ball at all and this year they're like line drives so it's a lot of fun and I think we'd be a really powerful benefit to your community so this isn't a type of facility that you know a local organization would come in and rent could they they could yep yeah that happens a lot over in town yep so yeah local teams will do a club teams will do it there are it's individual base as well so we do lots of private lessons we have membership programs that give you discounts on private lessons and cage rentals uh we have a really large Pro Shop sponsored by Rollins in Easton so that's one of our revenue streams as well so yeah it's memberships camps and Clinics private lessons cage rentals you don't have to be a member you can come in and just purchase credits for a swing card uh and then the pro shop so there's six revenue streams that kind of work together to create a pretty successful business the jobs aren't necessarily local they're more the the contractors so like you mentioned that yeah there's probably going to be about 15 that are independent contractors probably five to seven that are full-time you know front desk workers management team you know marketing people so yeah thank you thank you so much appreciate it any concern about balls constantly getting hit I mean know who the neighbors are but I'm assuming that can be solved yeah I mean so again that's that's between the landlord and their tenants right um I have them in my buildings not just this again some climing walls jumping facilities uh baseball we got like pitch to pitch in the industrial Warehouse next to businesses too y nope it's very common extremely common so common that I think the city should think about just being a conditional use I really but at the same time is this building I mean they were built for a special purpose and the purpose was for office and warehouse space and to create jobs in those areas and I think that's the part where we can't lose sight of why the buildings were built and why we put the structure in place y so all the buildings in the Twin Cities were built for that like Warehouse office distribution manufacture and yet they you know over time we find these tenants going in those buildings it's just a retrofit it's the same as like same idea like you're like Office Buildings in Downtown Minneapolis they're going to be retrofitted into Apartments aparts you know what I mean like losing the end of the life cycle this is the beginning of the life cycle that building it's two years old this is where they go so I think it's you hear where so is changing basically rapidly right I mean we used to have big big box stores now it's they not building big so it's again changing day by day so it's not uncommon like that's is barely settled on the construction of this building so I guess that's the part where it's it's it's Liz can you speak again real quick to the the purpose of how this was set up and there's certain requirements that have been met right if this goes in yeah it's a couple things um and how we're looking at this um there's the comprehensive plan guidance uh for business Parks which lists out a layer of uh uses within that and supportive uses that are defined in there do include health care and fitness as a part of that as long as it it has that threshold as well um um and then the Tiff district is the piece that limits the um types of qualified and unqualified uses within that Tiff District so there's another layer effect um out there on these buildings right right the 15% is the maximum unqualified USI right y this would bring us to eight correct for this building for the whole yep so which the district is this development the two buildings the two industrial building 7% they can use on the other building yep y um chair brass we still have the public hearing open too looks like there may be another person want to Sure coach yeah uh Joe jetland uh with 4te real estate Partners I live at 550 Big Horn Drive in Chan Hassen Minnesota uh I just want to speak to a couple of the questions that have come up uh first regarding uh the sound so of the debats 150 locations across the country sound has been something that has always people bring up as a concern but of those locations they've never had to add any addition additional sound attenuation sound remediation so president's been there it if sound remediation needed to go in it could could be done but they have not had to do it up to this point uh regarding the jobs that would be created I don't have the specific numbers but um the in terms of the amount of uh jobs per square foot we were above the threshold the price uh uh the employee uh rate was above the threshold that was required uh with the district so I just want to touch on some of those things so true and that was was what on the ti no uh the wage right he mentioned something about I think it was Employee there's a employees per square jobs per square foot jobs per square foot yeah I'm not as familiar with that piece of it but maybe this guy is hello if I could speak J Moore oppent Investment Company um uh the original developer of this project I represent the ownership of chasa industrial owner building one LLC uh so we're here tonight because we developed these two buildings we have five really good solid tenants that are in these buildings and we're very proud of what the result the end result is uh if any of you have been to those businesses and seen how much money has been invested both on the outside the landscape the inside the buildings and more importantly the office finish especially with imris they're a neurological MRI company which I hope everyone in Chas is very proud to have that and we're very proud to put them there and so one of the criteria for us to move forward with this $45 million investment was to have a t Tiff District created that helped create some of the funding for the infastructure so that Tiff District represented the requirement was 20 jobs and a wage requirement of $17.50 an hour which we've greatly exceeded and so we're sitting here with a vacancy in this building with a complimentary use that's not going to be during business hours but will be a benefit to the community so as ownership we were very protective of the Tiff District as Liz has outlined and I've met with Julie at the city many times on this we would not be here if it was going to jeopardize the tip district and the wages and the jobs that were created so it fits into that 8% so we're okay with just this one use so we won't be here next month with a pickle ball court or something like that but you probably will get those requirements in the future but um anyway I just wanted to address that on the jobs and the wages so then you probably have the knowledge in comparison to the other tenants then as into the rates that the the other tenants have and employee accounts is Juliet to City okay we've met the requirement no I'm saying the other in comparison not sure I'm following you the other tenants in the spaces y so understanding how this space compares to the other spaces that are actually occupied I'm just I mean they they outline the wages for these independent contractors which is it exceeds the Tiff amount that's required in the development but this is outside of the Tiff it's the 8% or less than the 15% so I can't comment on that yeah CH chair Brash and Commissioners um since there's been a lot of discussion going on around the Tiff District I just want to clarify for your understanding um you know administration of the Tiff District oversight of the Tiff District approval of the Tiff District are all function of the chasa Eda board um so that's not something necess I mean I think it's relevant information it's helpful information for this discussion but um ensuring compliance with it is not necessarily a responsibility of the Planning Commission right just want to make sure that's understood than thank you any further questions for the staff or anybody else want to come up before I close the public hearing okay at 9:55 I'll be closing the public hearing any further questions or any want no all right so with that I'll make a motion to recommend the city council approval of a zoning ordinance Amendment to the plan multiuse District pmd2 to include a baseball softball sports facility use within the 1230 chasa Creek Way building subject to the following two conditions is there a second second Herber all those in favor I I posos motion carries thank you guys Liz can you jump right into 7 C please Ashley's GNA take over the third and final Ashley yes it'll be me and just need one second here and I will make my presentation brief for you this evening how about that the remaining applicant appreciate your patience thank you for sticking it out okay before you this evening is a concept plan uh by the Gard school for a licensed daycare fac there we go that's better yeah I've never been told that I talk quiet in my life so it's always such a pleasure when I speak it to this microphone and that uh at 1580 White Oak Drive uh the site is generally located in the southwestern corner of White Oak Drive intersection with angler Boulevard uh so west of Highway 41 and also east of the City's Fire Station property as you know chaza has a three-step review process tonight we are in the concept plan review so that first phase so our plans are generally highlevel uh which also means that our review is equally high level uh so we're here this evening generally uh presenting some of the issues that were identified as part of this process uh that will be addressed uh in those later steps within the process uh the 2 and a half acres site uh was part of the North Meadows eighth edition plat originally approved in the early 90s uh shortly after that the site and building plans were approved for a new medical office building uh it was anticipated at that time that it would occur in two phases uh that first phase so that Northern uh section was uh built shortly after approval of that plant uh it included also 70 parking stalls in a configuration uh that wrapped around uh three sides of that 12,000 square foot building currently there are three tenants within that or excuse me four tenants uh within that building three of which are generally medical office type uses uh and the third is a pretty fast casual uh restaurant use there's also an existing sidewalk uh that runs along the east side of that existing building so on the west side of White Elk Drive and it terminates uh just north of the site access uh phase two as you can see here from the existing conditions uh was never constructed uh and so that portion of the site is currently vacant so this evening uh the concept plan contemplates construction of a new daycare building on that southern section uh the daycare would be licensed for up to 159 children uh it's anticipated to have about 35 Staff at full capacity and operate Monday through Friday uh from 700 am. to 6: p.m. access uh to that site would be shared via that existing site access as currently proposed uh and grading or the site would be regraded for the new building uh the two play areas which are shown here in pink and then also uh the new parking areas shown in yellow on the screen before you in addition to those uh site gradings there are two retaining walls that are proposed to tie into the surrounding grades uh essentially to create those flattened areas for uh the parking and the play areas uh that Northern wall would be roughly 5 to 7 feet at its tallest point and that Western Wall uh roughly 4 to 5 feet tall at its uh highest point the conson plan uh related to the site also does include uh a sidewalk uh to CL close The Pedestrian Gap uh from where it terminates along White Oak Drive as well as on Meadow Lane uh where it terminates west of the property so now I'm going to just walk us through the details of the concept plan and staff's Analysis as it relates to that and I'll try to do it as briefly as possible uh first looking at the daycare use itself uh the comp plan guides the property for commercial uh the property is zoned PCD 5 uh so planned commercial District daycare uses are generally consistent uh with that guidance and Zoning uh the new building would be just over two stories in height uh would be roughly 13,000 Square F feet in total size with a footprint of half of that so it's 6,500 square fet a code defined Building height of 31 ft uh the first floor generally contains um the lobby staff offices uh as well as some of those younger rooms for infants and toddlers and then that second story is of more of the preschool age classrooms as well as a multi-purpose room and access to that second story is via set or stairwells uh that kind of flank the outsides of the building and a centrally located elevator uh the twostory building facade would be comprised of high quality materials that are consistent with what our code would require uh so hearty board Stone and glas and uh metalin would be would be used as accents on uh that entrance awning uh that Building height of 31 feet is generally consistent uh with what was shown in 1990 for building Heights because the second phase was anticipated to be the taller of those two phases um the applicant has intend or indicated that they intend to subdivide the property to put that new daycare onto a newly created lot uh as currently shown um there would be the need for either a zoning Amendment or a variance for that existing building uh to the interior lot line staff has identified that there is an opportunity to eliminate that by adjusting the lot line uh so we do plan to continue to work with the applicant uh to resolve that issue ahead of uh the next phase walking through a site plan whoops site plan uh details uh City utilities are readily available for connection uh there are existing storm uh utilities as well as sanitary sewer utilities that do encumber the southwest corner of the site uh so staff will continue to work with the applicant as we work into the next phase to ensure that we've secured the proper easements for that public infrastructure as well as the private improvements uh would not impede or prohibit or prevent excuse me uh future maintenance and replacement opportunities for the city the plan also indicates uh that the intent is to use underground facilities uh to treat for storm water uh the next phase would include the details uh of that plan so you'll see that uh should the project move forward uh the plan does trigger the city's Landscaping ordinance a preliminary review of the plan indicates that there's an adequate mix of trees shrubs and perennials uh to screen the new site improvements and is included in your staff report for this evening uh more detailed and thorough review uh would occur ahead of the next phase uh as I previously mentioned and as noted in your report uh this sidewalk connection would close that pedestrian Gap that exists here at this intersection uh as we've kind of as staff has reviewed the plan U we've Iden IFI two potential additional opportunities to improve site circulation as it relates to pedestrians through the site uh the first would just be in looking for alternatives to improve uh pedestrian Comfort uh on the front of the building uh by uh providing some sort of Separation So currently there's building a 7 to 8ot sidewalk and then uh the parking area uh that's just separated by a roll of ballards so perhaps there's there's an alternative there to create some pedestrian relief uh coming in and out of that building and then the second uh probably the more important of the two would be to provide a sidewalk connection uh heading south from uh to allow direct access from that external pedestrian network uh into the site so again uh staff will continue to work with the applicant on those issues ahead of the next phase as it relates to parking uh parking lot setbacks as shown are appropriate uh number of stalls exceed what would be required by code uh those parking calculations and graphs are included in your report for this evening uh acknowledging that the trip generation for daycares is is much different uh than the original anticipated use for this site uh staff reviewed it trip generation data uh that calculation is included in the table for your report this evening to summarize that data uh the site would generate roughly 100 more average daily trips throughout the day uh than what was originally anticipated uh in the 90s uh the county uh has advised that after reviewing the plans and that it trip data uh that the up counting roundabout project uh north of here so at White Oak and Engler that new roundabout would adequately accommodate that increased trip generation so they don't have any additional concerns uh and would not need uh to do any additional intersection analysis so staff generally agrees with that uh however just given the trip generation as noted in your report this evening staff is asking the applicant to explore an opportunity to provide uh a secondary Southern access uh onto metal Lane like was originally anticipated in the 90s and so you'll you'll see that analysis uh and that review in the next phase uh so just briefly wrapping up here this evening uh the applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting uh at the beginning of August there were seven residents that attended that they generally asked oper questions about the dayc Care's operation uh the plans specific questions about Place ground screening and then ask general questions just about construction timeline uh both on the C's project uh as well as the daycare construction project uh so with that uh I'll conclude this evening and uh look for a motion but I will answer any questions if you have them first Ashley um first commission questions for the city Staff first of all I like the idea of putting sidewalks on both White Oak and um Meadow because there currently isn't sidewalks right there people are walking out on the road going the holiday yeah the sidewalk just stops it just does stop and if they put that um the roundabout there at angler and white oak create a backlog of traffic so I think having two entrance ways into that property is a really good idea yeah the Eris yeah I my fear is like people going through the neighborhood get to the you don't want that no that's the hard part as well too is good thing it's not that far that they're going to be traveling they're coming off of Victoria there was a conversation here too of I had to same concerns of on there the only benefit I could see is if someone's coming into the site if you're getting like let's say it's a daycare right you're dropping off children and they got a bunch of people coming in then instead of coming back out the same way someone's coming in could potentially Loop out right so it's like it and like the schools do correct [Music] entry way and exit do that but people I think might naturally that would be the only way like in for my mind in favor of the second access otherwise I do think it could cause a little weird congestion like it's it's one many but at the same time in the morning and peak times when you're dropping off children and picking them up you could you could come out that way and then you can back at that little potential snake point where you're sharing with the next build so you know is there a rendering of this potential Southern access or not yet this concept level they asked them to do it but not yet yeah uh chair the uh the I mean the concept from 1990 showed that secondary access along the western property line hor and buggy yeah sorry is that was it was that drwn by hand back then too that's when they wrote letters like pens and paper computer I'm curious to see what the the surrounding neighbors yeah and again it's not it's yeah yeah few people out here it's not a public hearing but I will people can come up and talk certainly um before I just want to table this I do have a is there concern about the traffic congestion right there coming off of because I I took my kids a step by step so I know that that area very well so I could only imagine now you've got people diverting right there slowing down and people still continuing on into the area um that's I I just not a big concern but just wondering what kind of what kind of issues may happen there um because I know that there's enough width but is there something we can the city can do to make sure that there's adequate space to be able to make sure that people can get in and out off of white oak into that there's a lot of different entrances on and it can get very and it's right there next to the roundabout correct I feel like so most people are coming from the like the only Ben only good thing is it's a right in and that's where I think with that extra access point they could egress out on Meadow would help a lot that's where I do see where the city is coming from yeah um because right if they have it like there's some yeah a quick right in is easy for cars to make the right in and get into the into the lot so that's great but coming back out and to take a left across traffic too many is that's where I can see the extra egress helping right I would agree with that one and so then they could come on the main intersection wait but then it's just a matter of how can they make that will work within their there's going to be plan there's going to be a peak time definitely at like 7 to 6:30 to 8:30 or something absolutely and then again in the evening yeah so there will be will be peak times there's opportun good there any questions for staff before I I'm G to let people come up if if anybody wants to come up I see some people here there's going once Y in general I would like to say I mean I have kids they went to step by step I think this is a benefit to the community I I appreciate more daycare great reputation you know yes we're the applicants yeah Anthony and Laura Miller um 5020 5026 yes 5026 Boulder Lane in chasa we are chesa residents um love the community have lived here since 2020 um and obviously would love to bring a premier daycare facility to the area um our partners couldn't make it tonight which is Anthony's aunt and uncle and they have owned goddards for the past 15 years and we have our partner our other um team with us Goddard and our engineer and our construction so they can help answer any questions too maybe some about the drive traffic I don't know there's a right out of on White Oak 241 most traffic doesn't go that way though well we took a lot of the considerations you know from the neighborhood meeting too you know the exterior of the building you know there was concern about you know driving on that on that road um what was it Meadow you know metal Lane yeah so that's why we didn't want to put any kind of access on that side to going to leave that as a residential street but um I also understand the concern with you know the one way in one way out but I do know in Madina location there is that one way in one way out too and it works so yeah and that's so much we bring our one our two-year-old daughter to the garded in Madina that my aunt and uncle own and from experience the one way in one way out although it is not ideal it works and they only have parking on the front side of the building we have parking on both sides front both sides meaning facing the street and facing the building plus we have a little n what was that called Hammerhead turn Hammerhead turn around um for cars to use bigger SUVs that kind of thing so um but thank you for your consideration thank you um say we have an engineer here in terms of Civ yes okay so Sher erens with Westwood Professional Services at um uh St everybody forgot where they are from I just I don't remember the number I one two what was your name again Sherry erens Sherry okay um our office is in um inaka on U Whitewater Drive I just can't remember number business parkon yes yeah so um have you considered with the Ci's you know potential request of a second access point and and what's your we did look at that um operationally it works best to have the building front facing white o Drive um and have the and not have a playground because if you have to get the drive on the other side you're going to have to totally flip the building and that would put the parking against the residential um neighbors right there um and also then we put the playground playr on the back so yeah you'd have to basically flip the building so the playground would be uh against that really busy White Oak Drive so the preference was to have um the the front of the building facing you know White Oak Drive as as your storefront there and um that that sets the playground to the backside um away from the traffic and it's probably I mean I can just tell it it coming off that parking lot to have an access that would be too that' be too quick to Too Close to the intersection at the city would not allow that it we need to have at least 400 ft from the intersection that makes sense um yeah no I I agree with that flipping the building and moving the play I don't want the playgrounds on the on the busy road anyway even though it's secured and fence but I like them tucked behind the building and keep it away from the uh Public Service building as well too yeah um okay tight T tight confines it just you know like I brought my kid to step by step for years and it's the same thing right you share one holiday and step by step I made it work I mean it's it's not ideal but it's uh you know it's right from like 8:30 to 3:30 step you know then there's a little peak time there CU we have another one kitty corner right so yeah that's so then we have I mean drop off pick up at the exact same time for two locations that are kitty corner yeah and I'm R to bet we you know it's I bet you I'm sure that this will be full like this is a needed survey assign I'm sure for sure I'm not saying there's not a need for no yeah I agree yeah I hear you it's a DAT here umay yeah uh I don't any questions for uh I Sherry any further questions for Sherry no thank you twisted around in my mind yeah I wish there was a way it could like doesn't work real well if you put the other axis what's the city you thinking where were you thinking the aess would go what's your thought well I think first and foremost this is an issue that won't be solved this evening um but I I think you know we've got condition we've got a condition in the concept approval to study the access right um and I think that's what we need to do right so I don't I don't think staff has a recommendation for a solution this evening I think what what we're saying is that as it moves forward into that preliminary this is something that should be studied to figure out what is going to be that best configuration it may come back that um you know given the spacing and everything um you know it is that one that exists um but maybe there's a way to get a secondary access I don't know maybe there's maybe there's something else that we're not thinking of right now um but I you know I think we're in line with the concerns that you're expressing um we also recognize that you know there will be a roundabout there and so the plans will need to reflect that configuration um and some of that build out as well is going to change the access location I think for the bank if I remember right um so that will that will realign where that access exists um as part of that project compared to the existing access on this on side of the street that we're talking about yeah that makes more sense so that'll change some things um so all that needs to be toss bag and understood and and analyzed um and I think we'll be having an eye towards you know that best outcome solution um you know for everyone involed thank you thoughts any further thoughts I mean in con I think is it going to be City sounds like it's baked in a cake to review the access more that's really kind of the big yeah that's the big one right otherwise everything else I think looks there concerns from anybody where did the neighbors have any concerns or what was the biggest comment from neighborhood meeting they just was they were glad it wasn't a taco B and they to say fire apartment yeah all the noise going on there so I was curious what the neighbors were saying okay um I guess that's everything then so with that ver all right make a motion to recommend approval of the Conant PL for school subject to the following six conditions second second all those in favor I oppos motion carries thank you right off of I think it's Victor okay will receive in the other meeting minutes do those for the packet you received so these are all the new Dr Dr 14 years ago then with that someone make a motion to first second Bell give to B all those in favor