e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon this is a hearing of the chadam Conservation Commission being held on April 10th 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of chadam wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my my name is Janet Williams and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on Channel 8 and is being recorded for the OnDemand archives available on the town's website it's being conducted in person by phone and by video conference the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review have been posted on the town website so to all participants whether you're attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you have been recognized by the chair if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute by using star six if you're online and you're not a commissioner we ask that you please keep your camera turned off until you've been recognized you can indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature when recognized please remember to identify yourself for the record so that we have a record of a quorum attending today I'll now ask each commissioner to indicate their presence Vice chair Karen ltin present Bob rolls present Mary Sullivan I don't see her I do not see see her online she is not here at least not yet Elise Gordon present Cheryl mury present Eric Hilbert present associate member Bob dveo present and I'm here so we've established that we have a quorum uh before we begin the agenda I'll ask Paul Whitman the conservation agent if there are any requests for continuances today good afternoon Madam chair Commissioners uh yes we have one request for continuance at 70 Meadow View Road the applicants requested a continuance to April 24th I'll read the legal ad when we get it all right thank you very much so if you're here for uh 70 Meadow View Road that's not going to be heard today um all right Paul so you can now please lead us through the agenda okay Madam chair thank you first on the agenda is a field change request the address is 22 cap Sears way the applicant is Philip a Richardson nominee trust map 11c parcel H17 the EP number se10 3354 the project is demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling Pool Patio Tree Room in invasive area and the request to for the field change is to extend the retaining wall at the new driveway to stabilize the new bank okay thank you is there anybody here representing the project or online hi Susan Le from Eastward companies yes good afternoon Susan hi my camera is not working for some reason uh but I'll go ahead I submitted to you and I appreciate the Comm Mission uh considering this field change request today uh I'm here from Eastward company for 22 Captain Sears way and we are as you know and I I was before you back in the fall asking for an extension to our order and uh yeah great thank you and we have been working at the site uh completing the new home pool pool patio Hardscape and Landscaping at the site and we began the retaining wall installation at the driveway turnaround as you can see in the photo uh we put in what was approved and found that uh we needed additional uh linear 15 linear feet of wall to hold back or stabilize new bank to install what I believe are the um Evergreens uh that were approved and so we're requesting a field change to allow the 15t extension of the retaining wall along that driveway between the 50 and 100 foot buffer area and um I've also attached a portion of the approved site plan so you can see where that would be located on the site and the site plan and the proposed retaining wall will increase the site coverage in the 50 to 100 foot buff area area by 7 and A2 ft uh but we feel the proposed change is an improvement to the site overall by decreasing any potential erosion to the slope storm water runoff and to ensure the viability of the trees and other vegetation being planted in this area and I'll I'll be to answer uh any questions that you have thank you okay thank you very much questions I don't have we went out there some of us went out there and looked at it and said uh don't know why it wasn't originally included uh when you see it in up close and it's very Steep and you'll never get those uh Cedar in without some retaining Bob you have a question yeah Susan U so that if that's going to be extended um that end portion of the uh of the wall is that going to be cut back so the um so the uh extension will be intertwined with the current wall yes if you know what I mean yeah I do know what you mean Bob yep that will um yeah that will that portion will be removed once the the two meet and join uh so that it's not obstructing anything at that point yeah it usually has to be staggered so it's it's strong at that point um right if you just build next to it then you're going to have some it's it's going to be a weak wall in other words an open seam yeah yeah yeah we will thread it in so to speak yeah yes and um and are you going to have any ground cover around those Cedars or is it just going to be just mulch I imagine I don't have the landscape plan in front of me but um I imagine that we'll have something that will also help anchor uh the soil in that area other than just mulch I I have to take another look at it I don't as I said I don't have the landscape plan in front of me um but I can check back on that and give an answer to Paul if if that will help yeah and uh what about the other end of the wall uh it looks like it abruptly ends as well uh you're not going to have any issues at at the other end uh going toward the house that side of it yeah okay is that where going back the left side of that picture I mean it's hard to hard to see but yeah there's another photo and I see another photo that you can see it better yeah yeah I'm thinking that we'll do it what we did at the uh end of the first photo we'll we'll um bring it back so that it will retain what is in that area Okay um yeah so I mean if you if you could add some ground cover I'm not sure what's uh what's uh noted in the original planting plan but um the ground cover might kind of hold that soil as well you know around those Cedars as well as around the wall itself okay yeah I'll talk with the project supervisor and um and again I'll let Paul know what will be done out there yeah maybe some bear Berry or something like that okay thank you yeah thank you okay thanks other questions comments all right I think we're ready for a motion to approve the field change I move that we approve a field change for 22 Captain Sears way Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi and I vote I so that's approved thank you Susan he thanks so much have a good day you too all right Paul ready to move on to the next okay Madam chair thank you U next on the agenda is a request for a determination of applicability the address is 24 Pine Ridge Russell and Nancy Young map 8C parcel s41 r-47 project remove existing 12x12 house section and the move existing 12x16 deck construct 21x 15.5 addition with 15.5 ft entry porch at the driveway side of the house construct a 17 by12 deck in storage basement and 17x 12 deck on open tube and post Foundation at the rear of the foundation uh as proposed for the addition that's the project thank you good afternoon Dan fro from engineering [Music] turn on your you have to there you go that this is different than last time it's nice so yeah you better start again okay um Dan Coto from Moran engineering here for the owners Russell and Nancy Young um on their petition to um do an addition to their single family house at 24 pin Ridge Road um the this is a property that's mapped out on the very limit of a um of the 100-year flood plane on the 2014 Maps um which were based on I believe 2011 USGS liar since then there's been more accurate liar in um after post Sandy and then just recently 2021 Light Hour which is which is real accurate but I haven't said that I just think this would have not made their Maps if they had the newer liar um but with our field our ground survey matches the liar survey and the area itself where the addition is is um above the flood plane elevation So reading through um the definitions of the resource through the WPA it wouldn't meet their recommendation because they just refer to the flood level but with the um obviously with the chadam it refers to the map itself the map has a uh line on it but it also has an elevation so it meets the it would be within the line but not the elevation so it it was um confusing enough where I certainly thought an NDA was warranted I'm also doing research pulling the site plan from 2020 of the neighboring downg gradient number 14 Pine Ridge Road they clearly show the edge of flood plane um not getting to this property line so it matches up with our survey and the recent uh us G GS RDA survey um having said that the building code takes the flood plant as a foot so I so we know and the architect knows that any construction has to meet the flood plan requirements in the building code but um as far as look we were looking for your review that this property um uh doesn't wouldn't impact the flood plan itself and this is area is actually above the flood plane and it certainly uh doesn't meet the um criteria of a um of a Coastal Bank by the um flood plane by the WPA so it's certainly not a siment source um the so again it's just on the very outer limit of of the map flood plane but when we do a field survey we show it is not in the flood plane so we just want a review of the board so it could move ahead to um The Next Step of Permitting okay thank you so on that on the site plan where I'm seeing um just touching the property line um elevation 11 is that the outer limit than of the flood plane that that would be the outer limit of the flood plane elevation okay and then that lighter dotted line that you're showing through the property is what the flood plane map shows that's the flood plane map correct okay and we've run into this quite a bit on the outer limits of flood plane um is that the it's not accurate but there is a procedure for flood insurance to um to amend to to get a Written Letter where you can't but an actual map itself that the you know the map itself doesn't change right so but are your clients currently required to pay for the flood insurance because the map is showing the property in the flood plane it's I don't know if they have flood insurance as in if you have a federal back mortgage you need flood insurance but like I say the building because the current um building code says you take the flood plane elevation then you add a foot and anything within that area needs to needs to meet be flood plane compliant all right so under that under the building code they'll be entitled to get a building permit the fact that the flood showing them in the flood plane is not doesn't stop that it has no effect on that it's it's they'll still need to meet the requirements for for construction flood plane oh they do which is your your floor needs needs to basically be a walk out right your floor needs to be above flood plane level or in this case it'll be the floor itself will be above flood plane level and um that's about it because it'll be foundation so so we looked into the how land subject to Coastal storm flow which is delineated the requirements that that we are to to adhere to um yes uh flood plane maps are the first place we are directed to look but that is not the beginning nor the end of the inquiry where we should also been instructed to look at the U the flood insurance study for the town of chadam which we did as well as um field observations and Engineering data so that's where we're looking at this point with what you're submitting so I want to ask you when you said there's a 2021 light R more recent who how was that done who did that are there are there is there that was also USGS and that would be the Contours that are shown on this map were from the 20 so where we have elevation 11 shown on the map which is the flood plane that's actually from the 2021 okay lier okay it gets quite close you know I look at the existing basement floor is at 11.1 that is yeah it's extremely close yeah but that was that was the only one I saw that was that close everything else is uh above 11 so um in the whole and you so you're not going to be pursuing a uh a letter of map revision from FEMA or anything like that to ask them to change the map I don't think so at this point I don't think it would affect the building code because like I said the building code takes the flood plan adds a foot to it yeah so it can get real confusing trying to do um l in the long run if they're trying to do reduce their flood insurance we may look at it but that's not that has not been or if the property ever changes hands probably change his hands so okay let me ask uh questions over here questions my only question is um you have to apply to zba correct uh correct and you have not done that yet uh no I don't don't believe that the that um attorney litfield has applied I think he was waiting on this can we approve an RDA with it's an RDA yeah it's not only only orders are uh required to wait okay yeah just wanted to make sure all right thank you other questions comments no all right I got one okay go yep um the spruce you're going to be remove moving correct uh correct that's pretty probably pretty rough shape anyway it was leaning and the owner is open to planting another tree I told him that the commission may require that I don't know how it goes with um but he's the the owners I should say are um well aware the commission may require it I don't know if Rd get any type of conditions in chadam but um if there is a method I think it would I think it would be helpful I mean uh it would absorb some water um so yeah sure I mean if uh if there's room or if there's another piece of the property where you can plant yeah I think we're looking back by the shed area between the shed and the lot line when was that the property uh and also the uh the Koza Dogwood that's going to remain correct uh correct okay that's a nice tree you going to put anything around it to protect it before you start construction uh I don't know if I mean we could certainly add that to the plan um some sort of um protection around it but I I was uh I was leaving up to the landscape guys to protect it but I know the owner it is um you know important to the owner maybe even just snow fence or something like that around it with some staks uh then there's a little there's a little blue spruce uh next to the wall a little dwarf blue spruce I don't know if you've noticed that at all uh by the by the steps leading down to the back I saw that's a nice nice nice little plant is it um between the Dogwood and the steps in that direction or or towards yeah by the by the uh brick wall like in that bed there oh up up in above yeah in between the two walls yes yeah sounds like um if it's in between those two walls it must be small enough or it could be moved yes yeah yeah I I can certainly add these notes to the plan that um goes to zba so I don't think they've filed yet with zba okay that's all I had thank you all right anybody else anything and I think we're ready for a um Paul's advises is a ne4 uh because the determination is it is not in a protected resource area yes ma'am to Big yeah oh I'm sorry did I cut somebody off no no nope we're good okay yeah um so you have neg3 which is in the buffer zone or ne4 I mean he's made a good argument he's done his field survey the reference to the 2021 Maps we're only talking about Bomar being uh um relevant when you're doing flood insurance so he stated in his cover letter you know the Coastal Bank isn't a playing role in storm damage prevention flood control or set Source we don't necessarily care about the ton one slope within our um regulation having all that yeah -4 would be appropriate in this case if you're comfortable with that okay okay I move that we approve a request for determination of applicability with a ne4 determination for 24 Pine Ridge Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob I Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I right thank you thank [Applause] you all right Paul what's next next moving right along 789 foxille Road Robert I'm sorry this is a RDA as well 789 foxille Road Robert uh CI chenell chapell I really can't pronounce it okay apologize uh map 12 L parcel 5-10 r248 the project proposed elevated deck and shed yes hello everyone I'm sorry yes go ahead I'm so my name is Diego I work with BDL construction I'm here to represent the homeowners uh Mr Chapel is online as well okay I see and I'll be happy to bring some answers for the for the project so can you so there we have two site plans um I don't see a date I guess it is no yeah February 2024 done by uh BSC group MH and I guess there's another one that is attached in the filing um but there's a little bit different um one shows the location of a shed and the other does not have the shed on it uhhuh so which one yeah okay so you have so we're going to be this one does not show this is yeah okay the one where that is being shown Now does not show a propose shed so the one with the shed is the the updated one okay okay my apologies for for that confusion the RDA filing itself same thing but just you have this big beautiful one that shed's not on it right and then you have a little tiny one that has the sh all right hang on we'll get it sorry about that yeah fine well let me just make a note um where you are proposing to put the shed is right on the line of the 50 Foot buffer from the the uh resource area which is the no disturb Zone um and that's can you move it back away from further away from that line here we go okay so you see where the shed is is proposed and there is right next to it the 50 Foot no disturb Zone um that's very close to to that um to protected area MH can you can it be moved closer up toward the house out of that away from that area further definitely how far would you recommend like as far as you can move it away from there be preferable um so like if you go too um if you go like a couple feet more uh I think we still have like a comfortable STP to build the the shed but if you go too high way too far uh it's going to be like a a little tough to do the construction because it's very uneven even so that's why we proposed on that spot cuz it's flatter yes cuz it's flatter so we don't so we can play better with the cinder blocks because we're not going to do any fings for it uh we're just going to build over the blocks so it's the easiest spot to do this the construction I see I'm just trying to I'm just comparing that to the elevation lines shown I see how it slopes up away from the uh the Wetland area area but anything F any further back that is possible and feasible within the realm of your construction would be appreciated okay get it away from there can you explain does the deck wrap around the two sides of the house is that what's proposed exactly yeah so we're going to the deck is going to be 40 foot on the back side uh wrapping to the side of the house which is 22 uh considering the house size plus 7 ft that we're going to extend towards the the conservation line the house it's built partially over the the conservation line already um so the only disturb that we're going to have uh on the soil will be the fies which we're going to be digging manually uh we're going to do 12 in uh diameter Sona tubes which we're going to fill with the concrete uh that's going to be mixed at manual as well and how many sonat tubes are there total so there are 10 sonat tubes uh six going to be on the back side and I believe two of them it's out of the conservation already on the side of the house let me get the right plan so I can see yes there's the 100 foot line I think that's the 100 foot Line This is yeah okay through the house right goes right through the house yeah I see okay okay so the only disturbance is on the land is the is the installation of the Sona tubes exactly yeah okay and the the cinder blocks that the shed will sit on does the shed involve any other any excavation or Foundation or anything no not for the shed we're just GNA literally just sit the cinder blocks um and we're going to build over the cind the blocks okay okay all right let me open it up to questions from commission members I have just I have one quick question oh yep Cher's quicker than you guys underneath the deck currently there's just a couple concrete P papers are you putting anything else under the deck as far as on the ground or is it just going to be grass SE seed or what are you putting underneath no we're not going to do anything underneath the deck uh literally what we're going to do is just uh the excavation for the for the footings and there is a paver there already but it was done previously so I don't know much about it but personally like our company not going to do anything with it okay thank you okay sure I have a question go ahead Eric um off the off the deck uh where where do you step down on the just on the side on the uh South Side yeah the front of the house it's uh it's even with the ground right so that's the only spot that we're going to have a step down uh but there step to the bank or step down off to the side it's on the towards the road oh yeah okay towards the road so that's going to be literally just a step down on the back side we have like about 8 Footers elevation but as the the land goes down uh once you wrap for the deck you're going to be like just a step down on the front yeah it would probably help the banking believe it or not I mean there's a lot of erosion but I noticed that the um there's not much for the imagination they're pretty much mowing everything uh I mean that property actually has been the same way it was in the early 80s I remember being in that neighborhood uh working um the uh but you know maybe in trade um on the line of leaving a section of the bank um you've got two accesses you got left and right going down uh I know it's been like that for 100 years but uh you know this for for a mitigation purpose in my opinion it would be nice to leave a section of the bank alone maybe in the middle leaving the two accesses on each side still because it's been used for 50 years that way but to uh you know lessen the mowing yeah so where we proposing there is a walkway on the front of the house so that step down on the front of the deck it's going to literally connect to the to the walkway on the front of the house I know I'm not talking about construction I'm talking about the ongoing mowing that's the whole the whole banking is being mowed and I'd like to see personally I would like to see a section of it left alone as a mitigation purpose okay I mean that's my opinion can we add that to the uh did the RDA Paul it's not yes I think so okay we'll include that that uh condition thank you yep go ahead yeah I had I guess I had the same reaction that Eric did when I saw the property it's mowed all the way down to the water it is just mowed everywhere this is really the reason the wetlands protection act was developed in the first first place but nevertheless this is being submitted as an RDA so we can't really put many conditions on it um at all um so you didn't offer any mitigation for it I'm trying to think of some similar projects that we've had where we no mitigation on rdas I know but but a project that actually what you're looking at here I I only get this in digital form I'm not one of the people who get the paper copies it's so blurry I really can't tell what's what so I'm sort of I'm I'm a bit hampered and I don't even know where the resource line is quite honestly I have some side pictures here that may help you guys to to visualize if you wanted well your your large plan is great you can see everything okay except the shed but but I saw the shed staked out okay so we come across this question occasionally does the deck require mitigation you know you could argue that it does you could argue that it doesn't because water goes through but yet it's shading things and so forth and we've often been offered mitigation for decks uh if we were to if we were to ask that some mowing stop we need to get a little more specific I think about where and how much for it to be useful which is difficult to do in an RDA outside of the RDA context um mowing naturalized uh vegetation on a Coastal Bank is a violation of the wet's protection bylaw and regulations so we could also issue something that responds to that a notice of violation that requires um a cation of any further mowing on the Coastal Bank that would take it outside of the RDA context right it'll all grow back I mean you don't need to replant or mitigate just just leave it alone leave it alone leave it alone it'll grow back okay yeah Paul does that strike you as a as a feasible way of resolving this yeah it is I mean you know we Face these there's many of these properties in town um to many to count um that have been going on for decades so it's a difficult situation you you've mentioned that before Janet so yeah I think we could handle it that way I would say you know you can condition an RD you've done it in the past but um it would be an appropriate way to handle it I think which to to condition it or to issue a of notice violation and a requirement to Cease the mowing I I think the latter okay that seems better to me it's more it's addressing what's happening it's not condition condition is going to be limited to a threeyear period doesn't get to go recorded get and get Ono so it's going to expire at some point okay right so yes go ahead commiss own home owner can I oh I was gonna say the homeowners on the line can we just ask him not to do this anymore well or do we have to site him for something yes go ahead um sir can I make a statement please this yes you may go ahead and thank you um just for the record I have been um familiar with this property for over 40 years my parents live two doors down I have known the former owner of this property for a very long time and this property is highly comparable to the way it was with one statement that's very important we have removed four four Jeep loads of rubbish from that backyard wow including Old Line old cable old Lobster pods we have tried to clean up the property if there's anything in particular the commission would like us to do I like the natural wooded property yep we're letting it come back we've removed extensive rubbish from this property well we thank you for that sir um that's a that is a laudable thing to do and serves the interest of the weton protection bylaw and we agree that at this point with all of that having been done the best thing to do with that area is just to let it naturalize again and go back to where to what nature intended there um so if you receive something from us that has the word violation in it don't don't react overreact don't get upset it's just the only way we can say make sure that that area perfectly naturalizes and does not get further mowing okay I understand all right okay thank you thank you Bob just something quick um the Sona tubes when you dig those out uh what's going to happen to the excess soil um we can either take your device for it uh some of them we're going to use for the Back Field uh but if you guys think that's the best way to do it's removing out of the site we open to it yeah that would be that would be wonderful yeah thank you sure all right then what negative uh Paul um please advise this would be a negative this is in the buffer zone so two uh it's buffer zone it's three three thank you yeah someday we'll get that right I'll uh I'll I'll for the gentleman who who wants it I'll I'll work with him on um the the bank issue okay thank you so we'll work together on it Mr Chell Paul will be in touch with you to talk about the bank and and work that out with you okay very good thank you thank you okay I move that we approve the request for determination of app applicability with a negative3 determination for 789 Fox Hill Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I that's approved thank you very much thank you guys I appreciate opportunity have a good one you too thank you thank you all right all right Paul where do we go next well we're moving on to uh submitted request to amend in order of conditions this is the uh first phase address 500 sh Road Steven and Stacy uh Baron map 16g parcel 85 DP number S1 36 excuse me 3645 Bank stabilization amendment to construct and maintain beach access stairs and placement of a portable rent station that's the project first phase don't need a lot of time I think or is this is phase one so yes hello sir good evening for the record rul Sardi from Capen Islands engineering representing the applicants and property owners for this project um I believe the majority of you if not all of you were present when this um project was first presented before this board um last fall um the applicant proposed the shoreline stabilization as well as the um beach access from the property developed site um to the beach um by means of a constructed tber stair um that project was um revised at the time in the fall to eliminate the the activity of construction of the stairs and just concentrate on the stabil ation of the bank um the reason was there was some um conflicting information with some of the abots that have an easement on the property and because we wanted to get this Shoreline stabilization as soon as possible before the winter we proceeded with removal of the stairs at the time um so the shoreline stabilization um notice of intent was approved and a notif condition was issued back in October um the applicant is now before you to amend that um order of conditions to reintroduce the stairs that was part of the original application for for that project or for their um overall project so the stairs um are roughly spanning up 125 ft over buffer zone Coastal Bank and down to reach the the beach portion of this stairs or a good half portion of the stairs um kind of goes over the restoration that was done um just recently in this winter um by Wilkinson ecological for the shoreline stabilization and um planting of um the erotic Coastal Bank um the rest of the stairs um is very minor portion um that is just in the buffer zone the majority of it is within um the Coastal Bank um the last step of the stairs reach the beach that section of the beach is part of the reinforced um Salt March construction that that was done by Wilkinson ecological um the stairs are proposed to align with the existing um clear pathway um it is off the ground so it allows for some growth to happen underneath the stairs 4 foot wide um it goes from approximately elevation 59 close to the retaining wall behind the the pool to roughly elevation six along the the toe of the of the bank um so basically that's the work it's 532 square feet of proposed stair um to access the beach um in the audience with us tonight is attorney um Bill Lichfield who filed with the zoning board of appeals and I believe in attendance through the remote access is attorney Adam Sager um if there's any particular questions that they have to assist me with um with that be happy to take any questions all right thank you very much um hello do you want to very briefly Madam chairman Bill Lichfield as R has said and just wanted to emphasize that this was part of the original proposal as you will recall and we withdrew it in order to get the Wilkinson ecological work done before the winter so we are back on which should not be a surprise we're simply asking for permission to amend as you know right thank you very much um and thank you for all this information um it's a bit more than we need at this moment this is just phase one of the two-phase process to request to amend an order of conditions the first phase there's only one question that we need to decide and that's whether what's being proposed is sufficiently related to the project that was approved to qualify as an amendment or whether it's so different that it needs a different uh noi for it obviously since this was part of the project that was originally proposed and was removed I think at least in my view it's pretty clear that it's closely related so that first question we're going to vote on that in a few minutes um but we will have to put out a separate public notice and have a separate hearing to get into the detail um so you'll have to come back and do a lot of what you've just done before but thank you for that um but I would I would um I think we can give you a couple of notes of um some advice when you come back about um what we would look for since you've thoughtfully provided all this already um the port Rin station conceptually is a little bit problematic but we can deal with that but the location is in the mitigation area that was approved for I think it was the pool project so that you that needs to find a different spot and I would suggest my own V would be to put it on the pool deck um but it's currently in a mitigation area so um that's not that's a non-starter um I think I would advise you to see if you could shrink up the size of that bottom Landing it's a bit it's a it's it's 4ot but 4ot plus 4T plus 2 feet so I think that's 14 ft in length which is really a deck down there um I mean I know for safety and I know it's a very steep bank and it's very long and you do need a a landing of some sort but um it does feel with a built-in storage area to be a bit larger than it needs to be and can be end up being used to hold lounge chairs and become a deck off the beach and that's not what the intended use of that is and my last comment would be um there is there is impact from this that was not figured into mitigation from before so we would need to see some sort of um mitigation proposed um 500 and something square feet roughly um2 532 thank you um to to uh compensate for the impact of this because there is impact even though it's elevated it's shading and you know etc etc so um that would be my advice when you come back to we get to the phase two um but let me see if anybody else has any helpful commentary yeah I mean we don't want to get too far into phase two here but I think there's propos there are 36 support posts each with a um downlo lighting whatever whichever posts are in the resource area should not ideally not have lighting but if they do have lighting one approach we've used in the past is to make sure that they're on a timer because you don't want those left on all night in an area where Wildlife are going to be trying to make a living at night um and everything that Janet said I agree with yeah that's it okay my major question was the r station you covered that badly located R station y you covered all of mine okay questions go ahead Eric my only thought is what's where do you mitigate what's left you know um that's my only thought that is a that is a good question um but something can be some creative creative solution can be found Cheryl Bob um what was I going to [Laughter] say uh you want me to ask a question yeah go um have we sorted out the RightWay easement for the I mean is there going to be a move to put another um path or stairway along the lot line for the other people across the street or has that been sorted out it I'm not sure it's been sorted out precisely but I I think that that is something something that could be addressed in phase two the issue today as the chair has said is simply the the first step okay thank you Janet I remembered now okay go I'm all set now I think uh underneath the uh stairway uh you say it's high enough uh so that some plants May grow um is it possible to put uh more shade tolerant type of plantings underneath the uh stairway so uh that bank doesn't erode any further yes so if I could yes go ahead probably answer some of that so early U well not early but last fall um when the project was first introduced one of the offsets for mitigation that we're proposing is the shoreline stabilization the planting of the um the eroded bank and also um seating underneath um the stairs with um the adequate seed mixture of native seed grasses that would take off and also help retain the soils within this Coastal Bank MH okay um yeah from my experience and it's the beach grass once it takes off it's I think it's going to probably kill everything it's going to it's going to overpower the plants in the future that are on that bank so it spreads pretty good yeah and last time um Wilson ecological made the presentation and they compared it to the property next door which they actually did the the very same um technique on showing up the the eroding bank and it has taken and is it looks very Lush and natural vegetation on Wildlife are taking advantage of the situation um so that's what um we intend this is this is going to be like and I know I believe last week there was an r a c for this property on an open permit from like 14 or 12 10 years ago um there was an old attempt to shore up the the bank and it kind of didn't work um but the shoreline that was just installed um the stabilization that was installed is working good there's a bit of the sand that was washed away through some of these winter storms but that's to be expected part of the plan is there's going to be some fish um sand nourishment over the um cor logs but eventually once the vegetation takes hold um there should be very little maintenance from then on unless a major storm hits the area and maybe um additional mitigation could be uh installed in the in the beds um on the front of the property uh even within the 100 fot buffer there's some uh Foundation area that could be planted with native plants and maybe beyond that as well and the the uh front Foundation plantings okay go ahead go I have one too no I just um I noticed that the the um the stairway ends at the start of where Wilson has been putting is putting in the reinforced uh salt marsh so is foot traffic going to go through that salt marsh or should the walkway be elevated over it or how's that salt marsh protected from so I'm I don't expect everybody to remember the description of what that is made of but it's it's kind of like Stone um in a cage yeah and it's very solid it is covered with some sand and and the sand will blow in and out um but it's completely cover so it's pretty planted right with salt marsh grasses so the intent was that there was going to be a path allowed without planting on top of that to to reach the beach oh okay I see a path going okay right similar to what what was um agreed to within the RightWay if if you recall um one of the last changes that was done for the approved a condition was that within the rideway there was a section of 4 feet down the middle of the rideway that was not going to be planted so that that will be something similar at the bottom of the stairs there's going to be a path um to people to walk through okay so we don't have a conflict with foot traffic and the salt marsh plants okay and we would expect Madam chairman members you know restriction that foot traffic be within that path that was part of what we discussed last winter yep we would absolutely put that in the amended order okay go ahead since we've opened up the box um I do have a question the the green part that's near the pool is that that's the previous mitigation area that was supposed to be restored as I recall so right um at the first and second hearing um last fall um we found that prior um OS of condition require mitigation um however the mitigation plantings in the area were not really maintained and they were dying off and it was actually lacking some plantings so part of that um application with the other condition was kind of pulling in that order of condition which was order of condition 1022 well let me let me ask my my real question is has that been done so this order is still open the the one from last fall so this application for new plantings will take place we just want to hold up until this um Amendment because we don't want to trample over new plantings we're going to be building this that explains why it's all bare then okay um okay good that clears that up the only last question is that you've got a rent station on the property already right right this one is a portable portable one one for when coming out of beach onto the property to rinse their feet before making it to the property okay we've had other projects where there has been a request for two run stations and we've actually turned that down so I'm I'm going to be asking hard questions about why you need two run station so when you come back just just to let you know all right thanks so maybe more specification on what what exactly that is um as well as specifications on the the download lighting that's proposed um would be helpful anybody have anything else all right then we'll take a motion to approve the yes M CH yes hello good afternoon hello uh my name is TJ hurry and I'm an associate attorney from San Associates uh I'm filling in today for attorney Chris S and together we represent the homeowners from Aunt Lydia's way neighborhood across from the subject property uh I believe Greg and Heather Butler uh may be participating online today um there was some discussion this afternoon uh about the easement and the status of our clients and uh discussions um I don't want to go into uh private conversations through Council um but I can tell you that it hasn't entirely been resolved at this point um I know that there were representations or at least comments made uh during the hearing last week I did review the video that perhaps things have been worked out um and that isn't quite the case at this period in time uh but our clients do remain open to a collaborative effort uh with the Brans uh I also thought it was important to attend today's meeting uh to let the commission know uh that in the event that um a collaborative effort cannot be reached with the Breon our clients have engaged an engineering firm uh and we are looking toward possibly finalizing plans and submitting them to the commission uh for use of the easement as it shows on the plan here that 10 foot wide a access easement to the South uh I want to thank you for your time today and I'm available for any questions that you may have all right thank you very much for coming good to know um and would expect it'll be at least several weeks U uh before we are scheduled for the phase two hearing so and if things change in the in room um we'll be happy to have an update and a status report as to what the conversations are at that point and see how close things are to being resolved one way or the other thank you and I appreciate your comments that thank you all right ready for a motion for the phase one I move that we approve phase one for of an amended order of conditions for 500 Shore Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen I Eric I Cheryl I Mary she said I okay um Crystal yeah just caught that Mary has arrived and I vote I so uh that's been approved and we will see you back here for phase two thank you very much sir than you all right all right Paul what where we go next okay Madam chair we're now moving on to uh submitted notices of intent applications the first one is the continue I'll just read it 70 metw road Kyle and Patricia LC map 10d parcel 16-5 S15 the EP number SC10 3668 the proposed project is in addition proposed attach garage and proposed deck construction including mitigation and again the applicants requested to continue to April 24th 2024 okay thank you I move that we continue 70 M View Road South for notice of intent on April 24th 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen hi Eric Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I thank you all right what's next Paul oh oh Paul you there uh yes I am Madam chair um sorry for the delay uh next on the agenda is a notice of in 10 62 Chase Street Cara mangoni map 16 C parcel 54 C7 the EP number is not in yet I will look it up but expansion of existing deck and relocate and replace generator good afternoon Madam chairman none of us is Tom Stell okay would you like me to begin and explain why I'm heref interested here on behalf of the applicants who regrettably could not be here in person but I think Cara magion may be with us virtually Tom Stell had a conflict an unexpected one uh but Michael Tannis and U Teresa sprag from Blue flax are here we filed with or Tom filed with uh your board I believe some time ago uh the plans that Michael can talk about today uh which addressed the 700 odd square feet of mitigation sort of at the North Point of the property adjacent to the salt marsh uh with and I which in so far as I know because again I'm filling in for Tom that was the remaining uh aspect that the in which the commission was interested okay thank you sorry we're just struggling to get the uh plan on on the on the uh video I'm okay you're back okay thank you um hi Tom hello um oh no Michael sorry hi Mike Tannis blue fla so we last heard you on the 6th of March we uh continue to today I think uh we did receive a revised uh mitigation plan you just want to walk us through sure so on the Northern end of the property we're uh right along the top of the salt marsh we're proposing 795 square feet of mitigation currently it's now maintained as Cape Cod lawn and mode and um so we're proposing replacing that lawn with a seed mix of native grasses and wild flowers and 26 shrubs of I'm sorry back and Bayberry um the lower edge of the mitigation area right along the salt marsh is also wet and I believe that it will refill naturally with salt marsh vegetation as it stopped as it stops getting moved so pretty straightforward that was our our portion okay thank you and um just see my note here from last time ZB has approved you you are all set to go all right uh questions or comments on the revisions submitted I think they've done everything we asked I just have a I just have a comment un uh the same uh situation with the uh mode Lawns um uh is present here just like the other site that we discussed on foxille road so I'd like to see some of the mowing stopped in this area um you know what we're right in the uh the Coastal Bank here so I think a lot of this mowing um should uh should halt I'm I'm sorry Bob which which area spe just right along the right along the uh end of the uh right along the the marsh uh there's a lot of area that's being mowed currently uh where this black line is a lot of this area is all mowed um is that on the Coastal Bank Bob yeah it looks like it because there a f the 50 starts the 50 by the house yep so um even uh even next to the mitigation area uh that's all mowed currently so I'd like to see a lot of the mowing stop the area to the north of the mitigation area there is no mowing it's all currently barus and uh salt marsh yeah just just to the right just to the right uh near that fence that post and rail fence that's all mod too is it clear enough where the Coastal Bank is located so that if the order has specifies as a condition that no further mowing on the Coastal Bank would that uh be sufficient I think it might be helpful the homeowner to have the area identified on on a plan uh because the because of the challenges with this lot and the the number of different setback issues the the flood zone the Coastal Bank the top of the Coastal Bank I think some specificity would be helpful then we get into demarcation issues um but it's I'm looking at something different than what's showing here what do you have well this map shows lawn going from here here so the gray area looks to be is the gray area is what you're talking about Bob the gray area shown as long yeah okay it's designated as lawn on the on the plan the area of mitigation is very clearly delineated on the site with uh there's rock walls on the Upland side and then the area to the right with the lawn that you're talking about is up slope and then there's like a twoot slope drop and then that whole lower area will be the is the proposed mitigation area so I don't I don't see can I just say something I I look at things in small victories this is uh uh one victory at a time I mean it's this is an excellent location for mitigation it was an area that was mowed um I think the only problem is we'd have to go back and mark the areas of the Mowing and come back again um that's you know that's my concern well we would certainly be happier with approval today and not having to come back Mr Elbert so and I would I would Echo your comment that I think given the historic use of the property since the house was built 50 years ago this 700 or almost 800 squ ft of mitigation is a show Stone significant Improvement in in exchange for the small expansion of the deck and in terms of of demarcation whether it be done by by uh I don't want to call them Granite post but by Granite pavers on end or something like that I think you know we can certainly accommodate in that regard well the plan is showing an existing this plan here this is yeah there is a wall there now but there's more concern I don't know what else we could do yeah no it is all but yeah and it curve but the wall curves over and there is approved that that uh the right or east side I guess it would be yeah um is it be is it the area that you're concerned about yeah I mean even even to have a discussion with the homeowner and see if they can eliminate some mowing would and that would be helpful I I will pass that concern along and again as I think Miss magone may be with us but perhaps not but I we we will convey that that thought okay thank you okay no I think she's on and I think she might think she's speaking because it keeps flashing am I am I allowed to speak yes yes hello hello I'm I'm sorry this is Cara maon I am on um I'm just um echoing what what bill and and Mike were saying I'm I'm a little confused about where the proposed um request for cessation of mowing is if it's behind the garden box I think that we're we're certainly not opposed to that we would prefer that um we would prefer um as Bill said if if approval can be given in this meeting that is is very much appreciated but um we we do appreciate and and want that area to be naturalized okay that's helpful to know we are we I think we are um aiming to get this approved today so that we can have an order um and what we're what we're casting about for is how to incorporate something like that into an order that is has enough Clarity that the homeowner understands what it is that we're saying and W without putting Miss magani on the spot in car if you can see what's on our screen the letters f SF ha Zone AE Bob is that the area that you're talking about yeah that's one of them yeah so if if that if you can see that Cara that is the area uh where Mr dveo has suggested that mowing be ceased yes and and if that is the area then that is acceptable to me that's that's going to be consistent with that area yeah yeah because that area is bordered by both the ston wall and the and the raised garden so getting a mower back there is not an easy thing necessarily anyway so Mr Hilbert can do exactly he can but yeah actually you stated before you had to go through the neighbors's right property to mow that section um so right I would love to move this along Tech okay I'm going to this plan um is sufficiently detailed that we incorporated into the order um and just have a a uh no mowing in that area that's behind the stone wall behind the garden okay and you can you can feel free to put it whatever wild flowers or other things that are wonderful in there that you can admire Native Native Native of course goes without saying I think that would probably I'm just eyeballing it but I think we would probably end up with something uh nearly doubling the size of the mitigation we'd end up with about 1500 square F feet not that that's a bad thing it's not a bad thing but if we come back for something in the further we know know we owe you one you recall it we will remember that lovely to note sure all right then I think we are ready to uh um continue this to the 24th which is next hearing for an order of conditions I move that we continue 62 Chase Street to the meeting on April 24th 2024 for an order of conditions Gordon second uh roll call vote Bob Elise I Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi Mary hi and I vote I we'll see you back for thank you all right okay Paul what's next oh boy 26 oh what am I doing on January 10th hearing sorry I'm here okay ready yep okay next is a is notice of intent 26 Sal Pond Road 26 pwn Sal Pon Road LLC map 17j parcel 9-1 there is no D number issued yet extension of an existing Stone revetment thank you Paul thank you madam chairman Commissioners I'm Bob Perry Cape cut engineering is representing 26 Salt Pond LLC the homes family you're probably familiar with this property there's been a lot of things going on here over the years uh what we have is very exposed property at the tip of Minister's Point going south um the revetment on the water side wraps around the south end of the point and of course I didn't bring a plan on a board but I think you have it right here on your screen and as we come around the the the band and we begin to head north there's no protection for the bank where the revetment abruptly terminates if we go about another 100 ft we get to a location where the driveway turnaround I think beginning around 2007 improvements began to be done there where it was elevated those elevated uh fills were confined with um fiber products that were basically built and integrated into the higher grass deposits above the salt marsh and this zone between those two items the revetment and the Very I think fairly sturdy embankment for the driveway uh that area has been kind of ravaged by the changes that occurred in this area in the last 3 or four years um thousands and thousands of very beneficial U cubic yards of dredge material were placed in the old Harbor area and it served to reorient the tidal flow into the Salt Pond and it's the location where it's basically been pinched over toward the East that's beginning to scour out the home's property so they approached us to see about an extension which is not just an extension it's really what I believe and would term a a termination of that revetment that you just see ending it was ended there uh because the land was once stable it was I think fairly well managed with sediment vegetation but it's just getting clobbered from the changed conditions so the proposal is to match into those stones you see on the right and bring a similar revetment form about 105 ft to the north but as it goes it would be diminishing in cross-section to where it goes from the elevation where it matches the existing when it finally gets to the parking turnaround it would be at the elevation of the parking turnaround so it's it's nothing abrupt it kind of minimizes things like show it will integrate at that juncture with the now partially degraded fiber products that are in the driveway um and that would all would be replanted so that there's minimal chance for end scour the zone that you see dotted there that that is an area that's been sand it would continue to be sand but effectively dense planted with beach grass so that we have effectively a foreshore and then it transitions to the Coastal Bank um we we thought about bringing the revetment right along the base of that bank but it just leaves the driveway a drift so by reducing the cross-section and turning the formation you basically create a stable buttress where that Creek flow is and you transition into something that was um because of the presence of the marsh um that fiber product had some reasonable chance of success and it worked this area that we're talking about is no vegetation it's um it it really is is uh calling for an extension of approximately 105 ft of the revetment and that's where it would terminate access is direct through that staging area that you see and the area on the revetment and near the revetment where you see the beach grass that would be a zone for occasional nourishment so that would be brief summary of this I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you have thanks all right thank you so much um start over here go ahead Eric yeah um as we know um it's a unique property number one uh number two is the uh you know stone rment make enemies out of neighbors um I really never seen too many stone walls uh where there's the scarping didn't affect something or somebody um you know I look at this as primary concern and you've got about it looks like 10 or 15 ft of primary concern that has to be addressed um pretty much you know where those they have some nice cedar trees and they're being undermined um you know why not just continue the wall to the stairway going down and that would correct the problem and see how it goes we we would see how it goes and I I don't disagree with that and I believe from what we're noticing we would see a progressive erosion at that point where we might have continuing end scour where it just seemed that this would bring us to a point where we had some stability and it just didn't I want to use the term common sense but it was reasoned that we would carry this to where we had demonstrated stability I've actually dealt with both ends of of this place you you get here no question question it's not even an urban legend there is end scour with revetments and doesn't happen everywhere but it's common but if we go to the other end of of scatter we did a similar thing there we proposed a stone rment that was necessary we actually maap the Dune and where the glacial land and the Dune began and ended but we dropped the cross-section of the rment now admittedly there a lot of material IAL was delivered sediment at scattery which contributed to the development of a beach in Dune we don't have any endc we have a situation here where we have lots of sand that the town is bringing in and probably will continue but we have this Creek flow and we have flood Tides it just did not seem that we should leave a gap at this point okay thank you yeah I just kind of letting you know the way I'm leaning and the way I'm feeling feeling I have to listen from my uh fellow Commissioners on what they want to say well I think one of the things that we're going to want to say is that um we recognize that the the current has has increased in velocity and volume um since it's been squeezed by the um deposition of the dredge material onto the LEL Lane Beach area um but I think that I I I agree what bothered me when I was looking at at it was was how far that revetment needs to go in order to protect and really the truth is it's what it's protecting is the driveway that the house is not in danger at this from that side the house was in danger from the other side and threatened which is why that revetment was approved um that said it is very Dynamic it changes all the time there um and I think that we would probably benefit from a meeting on site um where you could walk us through and and walk us down the entire length we could get a sense of of how fast the conditions are changing and how far the rment would need to go in order to protect the the property but um we will uh Paul will be in touch with you to schedule that if that makes sense to you when we considered the dwelling threat we looked at the distance to the top of the slope and although not all of that slope is eroding it's beginning to and it's you know it's 15 to 18 ft from the top of the slope building is close and it was an overall examination to okay provide something that would stabilize this area for a lengthy term until the conditions might Abate if they do well I mean they change what you have is a lengthening barrier Beach but what I think of when I say evade is is that we would stabilize that area and be able to handle some of the flooding conditions okay um which are which are well known um other questions let me go on this end here Bob Cheryl Karen no Cheryl I would like I would like to have an onsite I think that' be really helpful for me to get a better feel excuse me a better feel for what I'm looking at and what the options are yeah yeah I wanted to thank you for considering that I went over to look at the spot because I love it over there I went several times and every time it was just the sea was completely different it was doing different things and I don't know how you tame it but I think it would be wonderful to be a little more educated with the group and you sure we would add more to your mark out I mean I think we could even in if we know exactly and we will know when we're going to meet i' I'd have something done at the site that would produce kind of a mockup okay maybe stakes and some lines to show you how this is going to go vertically that would be very helpful yeah Bob do you um Bob do you need any other approvals besides ours for this well we we've endeavored to keep this land of the uh high tideline so except for some probable um very low intensity self-verification from the core we're not looking to at a get at a 91 license for example okay yeah all right thanks okay anybody have anything else all right we'll look at the calendar um again we're going to at the end of today's hearing we're going to help Paul we're going to give him dates of our availability so that by the time he reaches out to you you ought to be able to identify we're flexible a mutually agreeable date but picking a date to continue this would be post onsite um talk to Paul about a low tide time yeah um just to be on the safe side I my inclination is to take it to May 8th four weeks that would be enough time to have everything wrapped up all right um then let's do a motion to continue with to May 8th and we will schedule the the on-site for some time between now and then great all right I move that we continue 26 Salt Pond Road to the meeting on May 8th 2024 for a notice of intent Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi Mary hi all right thank you we will see you sometime in the next few weeks and uh back here again on May 8th I'll be back thank you you bye bye thank you all right Paul okay just uh quick note uh I got into the portal this does have a d number it's 3675 5 and just FYI 62 Chase is 3667 so those numbers have been issued oh finally okay good all right y so next on the agenda is 53 Marsh View Road uh alvarro and Laura Master Bono map HC parcel excuse me s38 D SC10 don't have one for this one demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling that's the project all right thank you at a boy Paul you got a name right um David Clark on behalf of the master Bonos uh Phil Cheney I believe is online um who uh developed the mitigation plan um as stated this is a demolition rebuild of a existing house the house was built back in 1963 um as most of all the other houses in this neighborhood um there is uh it's hard to believe that any resource areas uh impact this property because of Marshfield road to the north and Bucks Creek Road to the to the west but the flood plane does come into the property uh on the opposite corner of bucks Creek Road the flood plane also comes into the property to the east of us um the slope of the land form to the east of us is less than 10 to1 so there's no Coastal Bank there the slope of the landform across a from us on Marsh view was less than 10 to1 so there's no Coastal Bank there but um there is a small portion of the land form on the property to the West that exceeds 10 to1 so in that one little spot uh there is a Coastal Bank so we show the 1500 from that um and a portion of the project does fall within 100 ft of that Coastal Bank uh with the Demolition in the rebuild uh the owners decided to move the driveway over to the east side of the property uh that eliminates the existing driveway and grass parking that that currently exists uh on the on the west side so the overall impact on the property is is only 170 square ft increase uh in site coverage in the 50 to 100 uh Phil has provided a landscape plan mitigation plan to address uh the required mitigation um some other mitigation that that doesn't exist on part of the property in its current state is uh there's no storm water control so we're adding storm water controls for both roof runoff and the driveway i' be happy to answer any questions all right thank you very much um maybe we'll hear from Phil and then we can open it to all questions I saw him on yeah there he is okay is he muted no he's not muted right go ahead Phil you're you're on no not on teams but his computer might be all right well well Phil sorts out his technical difficult I have a quick question so the the the the fragment of a Coastal Bank which appears to be more or less in the middle of marsh View Road as it crosses it does it perform any function of coastal buying for this property um I would say it other than a vertical buffer on and it's it's somewhat of a minimal vertical buffer in that the source of flooding is bucks Creek from the Ridgeville Beach area um which is and then the flood has to come around uh into Sulfur Springs and then kind of reverse Direction so um it it's like I said it's minimal vertical buffer and certainly no source of sediment okay that's what I thought anything and since this is this is we're back in the same neighborhood with the flood plane um can you show me where um the the elevation 11 it crosses this property or it doesn't crosses do doesn't enter this property at all it's all on a budding properties okay so no part of this property is in land coastal store Flowage okay so the only impact is that is in the the outer Aura to that Coastal Bank yes where the patio and the and the extension of the house are proposed okay that's that's what I had written down I wanted to confirm that I had a couple questions go ahead Eric um when they when you regrade what's it going to be what kind of just okay C Lawn or how's how are they going to do this um I I think Phil is showing a Fescue lawn on the in the 50 to 100 um and these mitigation areas you know is it worth it I mean you'd have to dig everything out there that's natural and then you got to replant a few mitigation plants I mean is that something that we have to do we're following your protocol I mean uh in some instances I mean is it really I mean it's in that those areas it's just all vegetation it's w it's just wild and they'd have to excavate it to put a few plants in it just in in a situation like this I just I don't know I just don't see see it necessary would the commission prefer we we take the same planting lists and and find bare spots within that 50 to 100 portion of the property uh or or as close to the 50 line as possible instead of taking out an area that's equal to 170 sare ft maybe planted a tree or two or something I don't know but I just think my opinion is is that from my experience in the in the business it just seems like there's more disturbance than what you're going to get instead of just leaving it alone you know thanks um let me see if Phil has resolved his issues and has has uh Crystal has her hand up uh Crystal nobody can okay this is this is Carol Keek I'm oh I'm sorry we saw CK we thought you were a crystal Keon so very similar first of all I want to say I I support this project I am in the butter at at U 69 Marsh View and so um I'm supporting of this project um I do have two questions and I did send it to uh both Crystal and to and Laura um regarding the the mitigation I am where their um existing parking is is being removed I was wondering if they could extend um some Evergreens further down Buck uh bucks Creek um because of the proposed patio um just from a sight line and and you know noise abatement type of thing so um it is natural um so this is on the Bucks creek side where they have Northern bayber M um if they can continue with some taller plantings down there cuz um if there should be people outside and things along that line it would keep just the noise and the light um from uh transferring over across the street okay so if you're looking um if you can see the plan that is up on the screen so you're suggesting some plantings along the road that that follow the curve of the road yeah just basically where their apron was on their existing parking area further down toward their property line yeah oh I see down there so that would resolve uh commissioner Hilbert's question as well because when that parking area is removed it's going to be a bare area so maybe the three we don't need those three sweep burs up where he had Phil has them located but instead run um more substantial screening na something taller something that will screen better that is still a native shrub to run down along the side of bucks Creek Road Phil is that I'm going to hope you see how your sound is doing we're we're doing making a lot of decisions for you here Phil so we we like to hear you way in on them Jim mastero has his hand up okay who's that Jim hello yes Jim atono hello uh I'm the homeowner ah oh yes okay so um I I hear what you're saying Carol and um I don't think that's going to be a problem Our intention was to actually uh you know put some you know trees and and plants so we have some privacy when we're on the patio also so um totally totally I don't have a problem with that um especially if it it if it if it comes at getting some Lea on the on those mitigation plantings that that would be helpful okay well it sounds like that we're on the road to that can I can I just add to be careful whatever greens you put in you know stay you know you don't want Leeland Cyprus things like that so it has to stay within the list right native fair enough yep well just to follow on that theme we're talking about the area the outer we're talking about the um outer Aura here yep for the most part and so is this rebuild yeah it is right so you're you're basically starting fresh with a property and you're not you are showing four inkberries as Foundation plants in the front of the house which are native which is good but are you you just mentioned other plantings that you're considering so normally for cases like this we if there's Landscaping if there are landscaping plants being put in Foundation plants being put in we will typically see that and also there's a requirement the plantings in the outer R be at least what is it 75% native right so so that's kind of a black box right now what you plan to plant in the outer Ora aside from these mitigation plants and it's something we should probably get clearer on in terms of plan well we're going to be pulling out that that driveway so it'll just be a bare spot there so um the the intent was just to carry some of those indigenous plants a little further down you know so it wouldn't just be yep that we hear and that we are in total agreement with that of carrying those screening native plants further down into past into and beyond that bare driveway what Bob was talking about are the um the ornamental Foundation plans that are um that always go in in the front of the property um about half of the front of this property is in um protected area so it's subject to our requirements that 75% of those be native plants um we don't have a landscaping plan yet this is a mitigation plan what we would we could do is if we get this ready for an order in the next week or two two weeks uh put in the order that the proposed landscape plan be submitted um to the agent and to the commission for approval prior to any plants being installed there to make sure that it complies um you don't need to do that we don't need to get to that point at this point in the process yeah I I think Phil is showing some Foundation plantings on the north side of the house we're not counting those as part of the mitigation but they are right now 100% netives but I I'm sure there'll be more yeah it's possible yeah okay okay anybody have anything anything else that uh needs to go into an order otherwise I think we could um Phil I'm going to speak for you just question how's everything going to get watered is it going to be no Iration temp temporary above or how's it temporary above is what we the only thing we allow um Phil I'm going to say that you will be able to revise the mitigation plan and get it to Paul within the next week to 10 days if so we can schedule this for an order of conditions on the 24th if we have that in Hand by then I mean there's there's no rush in that zba is probably in May sometime yeah um so or we can wait and do it in a little bit later once well we go two weeks after the 24th the first all right let's do that meting that maybe Phil will have a landscape plan by then and that would uh that would be super and the 24th is a little bit uh jammed up anyway that would be May 8th one more question one more question yes patio perus yes yes okay all right then let's uh take a a motion to continue this to May 8th we'll do a final review of mitigation maybe a landscape plan and get it ready for an order of conditions what what date is uh may may what 23rd is the zba so we'll have to hold it in we'll hold it at that point yeah and then hold up on issuing ask any questions on the landscape Etc and then it'll be ready on St all right the uh just I keep hammering on the Landscaping plan that the lawn should be addressed as well should be per it should be Fescue native Fescue it's stated on the okay I just didn't remember but that's good okay thank you um motion to continue to May 8th I move that we continue 53 Marsh View Road to the meeting on May 8th 2024 Gordon second uh roll call V Bob Elise Karen I Eric I Cheryl I Mary I is that a virtual background or are you really in some place that looks quite so shishy as that virtual virtual you're at work okay I know I'm sitting every time she comes on I go oh you made send mine yeah next week okay um all right Paul what do we have next we're getting to the end of this next we have something that might take a little time uh 30 Ser 30 series Point Lane mlay family property LLC map 11a one parcel 6-4 not the EP number proposed Waterfront maintenance is the project description it's a little bit more than that actually but as you know that's it little bit okay good afternoon Katherine Ricks with tyan Bond here on behalf of Bill mlay our client I also have Ryan Kavanaugh online as one of the other members of Tian Bond and then Wilkinson ecological design we have Steven Lee and Katrine Higgins here and then Bill Riley is here representing the client as well we'd like to start our presentation with a quick um project history family history of the site from Mr Bill mcleay good afternoon I'm bill mlay um I my cousins own the property um my great great great grandfather was Sears of Sears Point um who had daughters and that's property's been um descendants of his and actually the surrounding in properties um were also a part of the family originally um I grew up there learning how to sail my grandmother started the um stage Harbor Yacht Club with others my great uncle Was An Architect and um designed the yacht club um so it's a place that means a lot to us and I'll turn it over to someone else thank you sir thank you for coming okay so the existing conditions there are five Timber groins that go Shore normal with the salt marsh in between and then the Coastal Bank with a Timber bulkhead at the bottom it's a pretty small Timber bulkhead and this just shows you the existing conditions of due to the fact it's a Timber bulkhead that's been there and the groins that have been there for years and we'll Show a slide after this of how long we think they've been there but appro approximately before 1965 so they're in you they're in need of repair and replacement and then some of the invasive species that are on the bank and another picture of the proposed I mean the existing conditions of the bulkhead and the erosion that has happened behind the bulkhead and then some recent storm damage of loss of the Coastal Bank along the site on a place area where there wasn't the timber bulkhead towards the Northeast Northwest property so this picture is a historical image where if you look closely at the shoreline you can kind of see the scalloping of the Shor line which is indicative of groins and this is the comparison of the 1965 to 2018 and kind of giving you an idea of where you can see the scalloping and you can see the uh existing rins that are there so we've determined that they were definitely there before 1965 so the proposed work is to replace the existing Timber bulkhead and going kind of landward of it we're not going seaward we're going to increase the height by about plus one from where it is now plus one to plus two depending on how much it's sunk since it was put in and then repair the existing Timber groins but not replace them so the repair in kind on those and then in addition to that we are going to propose fiber rolls in that area where we've seen some slumping of the Coastal Bank reestablish the coastal bank and then Wilkinson ecological is going to provide some invasive species management and then native plantings and I'll let Katrine take over from there thank you good afternoon um so our proposal um proposes or our project proposes invasive removal including the management of an of a pretty significant stand of Japanese knotweed and replanting spanning the entire Bank of this property we're also as Katherine said we're proposing the installation of a coir-based fiber array on the western side and we see this overall as a great opportunity to both provide highquality habitat for wildlife and also to strengthen storm water infiltration so if you if you went out to the site hopefully you did you're like you likely notice that the bank is covered with State listed invasive species with the no most noticeable being the naweed that I mentioned it's con that knotweed is concentrated as our plan shows right along the stairway on either side and then in addition to the knotweed there's shrub honey suckle Vine honey suckle porcelain Berry multifloral Rose and Bittersweet just kind of throughout the bank really the invasives are it's clear that they're out competing the native uh species with only really sassafras Seaside golden ride uh high tide Bush cherry and Oak are really the only remnants of of a native plant community so as always we're proposing to remove the invasive species uh primarily by hand since it's a really steep bank and the timeline and approach for this is described in Our Land Management plan the area would be immediately blanketed using using the erosion control blanketing and seated with the native seed mix specified on our plan and then in addition we're proposing a small fiber roll array along 30 ft of the western side of the bank this work is very consistent with other successful fiber roll projects uh that we've completed in this area in particular and as you know throughout chadam um this is very small though that might be the biggest difference the scale of this is quite small um so the protocol for this work is included starting on Page Six Land Management plan the fiber rolls will be installed beginning with the lowest fiber roll and will work up and back as we typically do and that would complete the six High array uh they the fiber rolls will be wrapped in biodegradable coir of blanketing anchored using Earth anchors and planted with beach grass and then we would install erosion control blanketing above the array and the area will be planted according to our plan and then overall the entire bank will be planted um with a focus on those Maritime shrubs that are currently lacking on this site and on this bank so we're looking at Bayberry sweet Fern Carolina Rose High Tide Bush as well as their bous species such as American beach grass and seaside Golden Rod we've also called out and it's in that darker green um hatch on our plan a specific salt tolerant seed mix to be installed on the lower Coastal Bank that will do well with the salt water um so over all we're seeing this as a great opportunity to enhance the resource area and provide an ecological uplift in terms of both improved habitat for wildlife and increase storm water function for the site and with that we'd be happy to answer any questions okay thank you very much um what Katrine what percentage of the existing vegetation on the current on the Coastal Bank would you estimate is invasive versus native it's hard to say specific because of the different layers you know there there are some gr native grasses growing underneath some of that vegetation but I would say it's 80% is it rough I'm just kind of a guess it might be a little more a little less but it's pry invaded inv okay um especially with that knotweed I mean you can see on that picture on the top left it's growing in in the stair area too and are the stairs slated for removal and replacement as well or don't that's not part of don't believe that's part of this um okay I don't know okay there's a lot of questions as you might expect about about the um existing bulkheads and the groins um some of them I we think would be best answered by having an on-site visit so that uh you can walk us through um because there are places where there's nothing behind the bulkhead and it's not clear what the bulkhead is is contributing to anything and I guess I guess my understanding is that existing bulkhead is going to remain or is it being that the existing one would be removed and a new one is going to be placed slightly land seaward slight land landward and then F behind that yeah because there's a big gap between and then fill behind that so we think it's it's the storm surge not so much the waves in this area because of where it's located but the storm surge especially with the higher Storm surges we've had recently especially from the south we feel that that's what's causing it so we're going to increase the height slightly on that and then you're showing on there I I can't make it out here but there's another bulkhead that appears to be buried somewhere in the middle of the Coastal Bank um yes go ahead Mr MCL um so as you look at that you can see the groins quite clearly you can see the bulkhead um at the end or just on the higher end of that which sticks up from the beach anywhere from 3 feet to a foot or less even and then above it there's a a wooden wall that's about this high that I don't know when it was built I mean I um it's been there since I can remember as early as possible the rest of it I remember um going back to when I was at least younger than 12 which would have been 1970 are you doing this or but there is a wall that doesn't serve a huge function but is was built there a very long time time ago is it visible is it sight visible it's covered with a lot of Bittersweet ah um so it is visible if you're if you're if you're walking on the beach it's you can see it but it's really not prominent in your view okay um I just I didn't know it was there and and noticed it on the plan and said what's what's that so another reason why a site visit would be helpful for us to to understand exactly uh what the current situation is in and visualize what's being proposed here okay um go ahead Eric um I have a question um hello Bill the um when I looked at the property it reminds me when we used to do snow fencing on dunes to capture the sand um the only problem is if you look at the neighbor they're down to be fiber oil it it doesn't seem like it seems like it's capturing all the sand and not really sharing the wealth to anybody else it's not moving anywhere uh by these groins um is are the groins something that's absolutely determined yeah so repair of the groins and just repairing them I mean removing the groins we feel the reason that we'd like to repair them is because of the amount of salt marsh that has stayed there over the years and we feel it's because that sand has been pretty steady in that area it really hasn't Creed it's very steady in that area it really hasn't ined or depleted but it's been pretty steady to keep that salt marsh there and we fear that removing all of the groins would cause loss of salt marsh but also isn't it supposed to be you know scientifically isn't it supposed to be e and flow the siment supposed to move around and not be captured so part of it is groins and groin Fields depending on where they are and their spacing they collect some on the accretion side and then they have a depletion side but then it as it goes up where where it accretes it eventually moves around did you notice did you notice on the far west side from the last groin is where the scarping is MH the lot where it's not protected by the bulkhead there and where the last one is or or there's or there's the groins that's causing it so you don't really you know this it's hard to know unless you have a I mean this goes back I mean these these bulkheads and revent and you this this is an age-old argument but it is it is indeed and groins are are an age-old controversy for the very reason that Eric is pointing they interfere with loral drift and they prevent um natural accretion it strikes us though that you're going to need a chapter 91 license those we yes we would have to go to chapter 91 if we were to repair anything or and these previously I don't believe had a license so we would well that was one of our questions was what approvals or licenses exist for all of this I don't believe there was especially if they were put in before 1965 when most um of the projects didn't get it so we would have to go tun deep waterways in order to get that license kind of a grandfathering of the structure well I think it's something that we would like to look at on site um because it it is troubling um maybe we don't normally approve these sort of things so haven't generally dealt with it questions go ahead Bob another question the U the drainage off the uh the house on the patio where is that is that being collected right now it's not being collected so does is there a tendency for it to move towards the bank um certainly in a heavy range it's all sand so there there's not um a lot of grass or whatever no you need to speak into the microphone um I I I assume it does move that way there isn't grass it does um and in a heavy rain it definitely will um go go over the bank so I might want to consider putting some drainage in um next to that patio especially I might just add one thing in terms of the question around groins um I am quite clear from my own memories and everybody else in my family we actually I think have photographs here that are quite old photographs showing that the groins and bulkheads have been there for a very long time I remember quite distinctly because I was probably I mean my my memory probably clearly starts at 10 or 12 that would put it back in the you know into the 50s or 60s um in terms of when all of that happened the story um and this is hearsay but from my grandmother was that um the the Oyster River was dredged and then it started eroding um if if you do know the Oyster River there the channel is very much on our side so at low tide it drops off quite steeply and um mean I just in the last year where the grinds we have um the groins have deteriorated as you go farther up the Oyster River and that's the part that's next to the neighbor's embankment so there there used to be two or three feet higher there and on the parts right near the stairs from our property that goes down in the last winter actually the the um level has gone up actually um and it stayed incredibly consistent um it wasn't as well maintained down at the far end of the property and undermined and has therefore not being as effective as it has before thank you go ahead Bob um also the sassafras cluster uh you say to M maintain that at 6 to 8 ft do you think that's practical I mean you this has to be pruned from time to time then to keep it low for the view right um some of that I think has been um degraded because of the erosion in that area since we've developed this plan uh we certainly could swap it with other shrubs if that if that that's where you were going with it I think so I mean just thinking about you know the future you know and there is a nice stand to the Eastern side of the sras that'll just remain yeah and that's out of the view anyway yeah right okay that's it for now thank you all right thanks Bob other questions over here Cheryl Karen no I think a site because it's going to help a lot agree yep yep other questions um there's a piece of Correspondence that came in yesterday I'm just seeing it now from an abutter Curt and Janine kilty 155 Sears Road it's lengthy so I'm just going to summarize that they are writing to support the project um they they speak to um how they have witnessed the dynamic and formidable forces of the ocean reshaping the coastal environment intimate familiarity with the such a Le from Sears road to Battlefield Road underscores the connection to this Coastline uh it's not been without its challenges um and she speaks to the realities of coastal erosion and flooding and prompting us to voice our concerns um and we implore the commission to heed this call for action and embark on a strategic planning process wouldn't that be nice aimed at safeguarding our Coastal assets for generations to come well that's out of our purview but we would certainly welcome that um shouldn't say that uh including reevaluation the efficacy of existing structures such as the groins and embracing innovative solutions informed by the experiences of other Coastal communities facing similar challenges um so that's from Kurt and Janine kilty um Madam chair we have uh Sonia Barlett who is our neighbor would like to speak yes yes Miss Barlett hello here or there either one either one your choice okay a little bit more room here hi thank you very much um for your service uh my name is Sonia Bartlett I live right next door along with my husband for 13 years at 157 Sears road so if you're on the beach it's to the left um we also uh before that lived over deer stage Harbor yach club for 7 years so it's been about 20 years that we've been down in that neighborhood um and my family has been in chattam for four generations I have been walking that beach my whole life and have seen uh the changes firsthand um and two years ago we ourselves also had to install a fiber roll array um on the side budding with the M's um because that is really where the danger zone is right there between the two homes so like the left side of theirs and the right side of ours um my husband Jim and I who is uh on the line I believe if he was able to get the technology to work hi honey um we really do appreciate uh the efforts of our neighbors to try to bring the the structure into compliance um anyone who's walked there knows that it has been um a concern for many people in the community regarding Public Safety the appearance of it um there have been times that um pieces have been sticking out in strange places um also we really really really appreciate the efforts to control the invasives especially the Japanese not weed which we know can spread like wildfire um so we do really appreciate that and um would like to support our neighbors in in making this um and bringing this into compliance that is um we do have some some concerns um we the main thing that we really have a concern with is the groins um these groins are very clearly failing and in the couple that are on our end I've measured between 18 in and 24 in of daylight between the bottom of the groin and the beginning of the sand on the beach forgive my lack of scientific terms um we disagree with the statement in the filing um where it says that these are helping to accumulate sediment we believe that they are no longer accumulating any sediment um we also disagree with the premise in the filing where it says that they are helping to prevent erosion they are not helping to prevent erosion at least not the ones on our side if anything we have over the years 20 years that we've been in that neighborhood we have um seen especially the 13 years that we've owned our property how those groins especially the last two on our side actually work to help shoot water at the bank it sticks out perpendicular it doesn't reach the ground um it causes a tital disturbance and it directs the water right at the most fragile part of the bank um so we would you know respectfully uh request the removal of the southernmost or maybe it's Western most grind the one that's closest to us as we we watch it every day really directing the water right at the end of the mle's bank where things are really in trouble and the beginning of ours and really damaging the end of our fiber rolls there had previously been a smaller groin right on the property line that was discovered when we did our filing you remember and we asked them to remove it and they did and we appreciated that and almost immediately we saw that area start to kind of come back um things flowed in there and grass gets caught in there and that is actually a little pocket that is starting to to almost look like it's recovering which again furthers our um belief that the groins are more of a problem than a solution and that by at least taking the ones away close to our end that it will help protect that fragile connection um there are also some horizontal posts sticking out that I believe connected the groins in an in a previous iteration that maybe the uh sorry the horizontal pieces have fallen out the vertical things that are sticking out it's it's a concern to us as neighbors that's a public safety issue and we'd really like to see those removed um when The Tide is High those barely stick out of the water when the tide is low um they're sticking out of the beach they're just not doing anything in their a public safety issue um and we do have a concern about the proposed fiber Ro um we're very concerned that it does not connect all the way to ours and that it leaves the 10 feet exposed that are the most vulnerable and you will see on your site visit um the most vulnerable part of the property um it's really in danger of collapsing I was really worried about it um these last couple of storms um and it it's it's in trouble and we feel that to have a gap there that is so fragile between our fiber role and their fiber role is just asking for for trouble we would really like to see those connect and we would like to hope that the town would not um push back with it with that setback rule um let's see I think that's it um thank you very much for for hearing me out I really appreciate it thank you so much Miss Bartlett appreciate you com I do have some pictures that I took this morning okay um because some of the photos in the filing are rather old they to show the fiber roll next to me is touching the ground um and I took some pictures this morning just to show that take them and and and rest assured we're going to be out there in the next couple of weeks anyway uh when the tide is sufficient that we can see all of it thank you so much everybody can do that okay other questions or comments before we um so we will need to schedule um again same message to you after this hearing at the end of the hearing we will confer with uh Paul Whitman to about our availability and find a date y um so uh pull up my calendar the 24th is too soon the eth is the next one after that're we're pushing everything to the eth today so might might as well is that is that okay with you for you yeah May 8th on the continuation yep May 8th and a site visit somewhere in between the site visit will be somewhere in between um I was hoping for kind of sort of next week since there's no hearing next week but other people are not available that day that next week so um sometime in the next two weeks we'll have that hearing that uh site visit hopefully but before the 8th all right a motion to continue to the 8th I move that we continue 30 Sears Point Lane to the meting meeting on May 8th 2024 for notice of intent Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi hi Mary I I say I all right we will see you on site in the next couple weeks and back here again on the 8th thank you very much thank you very much um can we take a short break before we move on to the next one we're going to be here for a while on that okay e e e e for e e e e e e all right we are back uh Paul are you back yes I am all right let's uh go on to the next one and Mary's back too we're all here okay okay so next on the agenda is no 414 Fox Hill Road Christopher lroy map 11m parcel 5-2 D number se10 3652 the project is proposed dock replacement all right thank you um all right who do we have for representing the project Cole are you you can go ahead I am here hi good afternoon Cole baitman from tan Bond formerly Coastal Engineering and I believe uh Bill Riley is also in the audience and we'll lead off our presentation to Aid with the commission's review I'll share apparently he's counseling another client out in the hallway but he's he'll be in in a second okay I'll uh I'll start it off then um unless we wanted to just give him a second no I think we can we can we can get going all right great so this this project is has been presented to the commission before this is a continued hearing for the proposed Pier at I'm sorry proposed replacement Pier at 414 foxell Road in chadam um to save the uh commission's time today I'll just review the changes to the application so as a result for of um previous uh comments by multiple jurisdictions including D um DMF the the commission itself as well as the uh Pleasant Bay associate uh we've changed the proposed project to what it currently is uh in the in the proposed plans now which is just the replacement of the licensed Pier uh and um which which only includes the portion of the permanent and seasonal structure um which measures approximately 110 feet in length by approximately 4 feet wide uh I believe that the chapter 91 Public Access ACC stairs will also be proposed I'm sorry uh repaired and improved but other than that what is included in our notice of a tent application is just those structures which are currently licensed and are being requested to be replaced and this this is a replacement is proposed in the same footprint the same footprint as the current Pier as well as the licensed footprint which uh uh according to the DP course respondence from Brenda meany right since the appearer beyond the length of 110 ft has not been maintained within five years uh it it is no longer part of the licensed application okay so it's just the 110 ft right that's what I'm looking at his letter we would recognize the 110 ft section of PE as having a ballot authorization okay um so the float is out we are back to just the the um the licensed pier in the same uh footprint um you go to zba uh for this on in May 523 that is the next step correct okay um the the the piles are all of the piles permanent it says here PE is constructed in a way that makes some piles removable so can you well walk us through how that works certainly so this this has not been changed from the original application but the approximately the first 50 ft of the pier is a permanent section um it it it has been that way for some time now as I understand it um and then the last 60 feet is seasonal so the details of the pier do change throughout the length the permanent Pier section would be more of the traditional round piles uh to stain any seasonal um storm related loads and then the portions of the pier beyond the uh 50 foot permanent Pier would be uh seasonal and constructed of a lighter Duty 4x4 embedded um piles that could be more easily removed in the offseason as well as the components above I suppose one change from the existing Pier two that could be mentioned uh is the inclusion of a railing on both sides of the pier for um for safety okay all right so that just leaves us to to Really uh address the issues of methods and materials um so uh I mean the orders we have we have standing U and I'm sure you are familiar with this conditions for um installation of new pilings no jetting um we would we would expect to put that in what and and forgive me uh if I missed this but it's been quite a while since I've read this the methodology for the removal and reinstallation of the pilings that for the seasonal portion how is that done so it's done in B so I can steal a screen here so let's see if I can I'll just do a line but um it's it's it's a frame that would be installed year to year with all these lines being um part of the frame including the xracing MH and then the portions of the decking would be laid flat um probably a modular system so that uh it's just really laid on the existing structure so again all the the big dark red lines would be installed as a module and pushed into the sand and the rest would be uh laid on top so how what is that process of pushing those modular uh piling sections in how is that um I'm I I'd have to ask Jen Henry um from Beacon Marine who does the seasonal uh installation of this dock for the most more precise details but I can nothing would change Our intention is to not change anything from how it currently is installed um with the poed application okay and um in terms of materials um as between the the pilings and the decking um what are you proposing yep so the currently proposed section uh has been changed from the initial filing but not from the most recently reviewed filing so the decking is proposed as a PBC product um I think one of the the uh uh questions from commissioner RS in the past um was the uh presence of microplastics or the potential of that uh and we responded with the letter um that microplastic and and and this this product itself is is it's it's not really an issue other than during construction um um to monitor any c offs and and and dust from it so well that will be that will be something that'll be implemented during the construction to have all cutting um done offsite or at an Upland uh location where there wouldn't be dust or debris created uh and then as far as the the super structure aside from the wearing components that would that is the the decking the rest is treated wood um this area crop Pond C Pond is a well flushed area it's title um and we feel that accordance with the D uh I'm sorry DMF guidelines that it would fall within the realm of possibilities for CCA treated pilings um because it is so weld flush and not in direct area of uh salt marsh so the pile themselves would be um CCA and then as you move up the hierarchy of exposure we would run down the uh treatment levels to uh probably a MCA product which is a very um typical construction uh uh I'm sorry pressure treatment and uh does not require it does not leech um and especially for the seasonal components that could be essentially replaced in the offseason once the the portions are removed um the treatment retention levels and pressure treatment doesn't have to be nearly as much as the portions of the pier that are permanent so it's a mix of Timber and PVC with fluctuating levels of retention and pressure treatments um purposely intended for the specific uh deterioration that that element would anticipate lot said there okay yeah and I'm to write all that down so the the CCA treated uh portions of the pilings are the are the permanent pilings that's correct okay all right well let me I think that's uh all I have for the moment in terms of clarifications let me [Applause] see yeah PVC um questions comments reactions sure I'll do that one more time um I can make it short and sweet I I'm not concerned about leeching as I've said before from the PVC decking I'm concerned about the fact that eventually it will degrade I think we all agree that it will degrade and I'm concerned about at that point that the microplastics from the degraded decking will enter the Wetland and really there's no way to say that that won't happen there's no way to guarantee that won't happen unless uh whoever owns it is out there watching it very carefully and I have no assurance that anyone will ever do that so I have I have bad news and good news for you the bad news is that I'm going to vote against it the good news is I only get one vote you don't know how else who else is with you on that um do you want to respond to that Cole do you have a i yeah yes please and um and I appreciate the comment and it's it's always a it's always a pick of what's the worst here right because we then we could go to like a a green forest and I think we might have mentioned this earlier a rainforest product that's you know barged up here all the way from gy on that just you know so it doesn't it's more durable and doesn't has natural Decay resistant properties but what good is that um but we feel that the PVC product is better for the environment here than the than a Timber decking due to the surface area that would be exposed to rain water we um we found on on different project projects and research that an alternative of line dimensional Lumber pressure treated lumber flat which has the most uh surface area exposed to uh rainwater that is how leeching is most likely to occur I'm not saying it does on every project but uh that is how it's most likely to occur as opposed to Vertical components that do not have that same projection so um again we we feel like um the proposed project is is in a difficult situation of choosing the best material but the one that we chose as long as it's maintained would be uh a Ben a benefit more Bene beneficial material than the currently the one that's currently there so thank you how do you maintain plastic I think you you said it yourself you you take it off and you you write relay it when it's reached the the the when UV impacts it and there's Boe in the material um it's pretty pretty self um selft telling plus it's also a product that's recyclable I think I've read in some literature for this product that I'm throwing out a number but it's some portion of the product is actually recycled from construction debris itself so um I think what one of the comments was the potential for this to be become landfill material and I think I think the industry has acknowledged that by the use of recycling a lot of the PVC products and construction waste all right I'm going to say it one more time I'm not concerned about the leeching I know that's what the manufacturer keeps talking about and how it's non-leaching material that's not the issue at least for me so we just have to agree to disagree on this I um it will ultimately wind up some portion of it will wind up in the Wetland there's no way that it cannot so anyway that's that's where we that's where I leave it and I'll stop talking about it well in response to those concerns which are shared um by a number of people on the commission um with respect to to um PVC as well as composite materials and the concerns about leeching for treated wood um the question is have you given consideration to the use of either untreated Decay resistant wood or uh aluminum for these uh at least for the decking material that's a good question in in one of the one of the goals here is to create at least for the seasonal portions of the project um something that is removable and to use an untreated wood like epe or green heart that's um I think it's probably like 1.5 times a density of water uh it's it would make it a little difficult to have a seasonal um Pier constructed from that material that is very much the opposite for aluminum which does have a high strength weight ratio and I think that's one of the reasons why it's traditionally used to make long spans um but I think that the product um is a less field adjustable um it's it's in some some jurisdictions I know it's not really a concern in chadam some jurisdictions might consider the Aesthetics of it and how it's shiny and could distract uh you know from the the natural profile of this area um but uh I I I don't think we've considered aluminum to the greatest extent for this project as uh an alternate but I I I you know one of our goals was to create a light project that could be easily stored um instead of a uh a series of aluminum um gangways essentially that would have to be stored uh in a much larger offsite location all right I'm going to mold that and open it up to other people's questions or comments let's go down here go ahead I personally would like you to consider aluminum since you say untreated wood is not good for seasonal I would like you to evaluate something that's not treated and isn't plastic so I I'm sort of piling on with Bob and sort of Janet um and asking you to consider that okay other questions or comments reactions I just got a quick question any lights on this structure at all no that is not included in the proposed structure okay and and the the structure is permanent no no movable parts uh 50 feet of it is permanent and then 60 feet is sea oh 60 feet is SE where is that going to be stored uh that that is open uh currently it's stored right there at the end of the pier we've notified the um property manager that that would likely have to change and be stored in either the the parking area of the house or offsite in the in the um Marine contractor's yard for season storage okay which is what the order will say yeah cuz when I when I did visit a while ago I did see that yes seasonal portion right there on the shoreline yep yep understand yeah thank you okay I I have one question go ahead um unless I missed it and you already talked about what does it mean a public access Stairway to facilitate public use of the pond is proposed the step it's not for the general public no it's for people walking on the beach to get I see oh cool get up over yeah everybody has that was very considerate yeah well they're required to do that oh okay and just to educate people who might have a similar question there it's for the chapter 91 license who DP waterways protects the right of the public to use these uh Water waste so anything above mean high water that does not have a 5x5 vertical and horizontal clearance has to provide either a a passageway like this up and over or alternate means around the structure other questions Cheryl um I'm just looking back through my notes since this goes all the way back till November yes it does I know so I have notes I don't know one of the questions previously was um about shellfish um is this going to impact shellfish at all I don't know if we answer that question we have a we have a letter it's been a while so it's probably uh good to review so Renee gag the gag the shelfish Constable said after reviewing uh the noi I have no issues with the project moving forward the project proposes to maintain the existing footprint um while providing increased accessibility to the shore to the public which may provide better access to shellfish resources so she had no issues it's not mapped for and then I guess Pleasant Bay Alliance has all everything's gone through them that needs to go through them right Pleasant Bay Alliance tracked the uh EP letter and said that um in the absence of um evidence that it was licensed and approved um then it's it's there's a categorical PR prohibition on new structures in Pleasant Bay so the float would not qualify which was what all the back and forth has been and the float's been removed gotcha all right I'm with you then I'm just I just need a little bit of catching up no this is this this is uh this is this has got a a bit of catching up to do um okay anything anything one last yes please um so it's not the end of the world that the PVC is not approved right you can just put a lum one in right well I know what you want what you don't want I mean but you still could I mean there there's an it is an alternative right I I believe going if if I were to ask our client for their preference the answer would be they would prefer a lumber a Timber decking material over an aluminum decking material if that's what the commission would prefer in lie of a PVC product um and maybe I could get some feedback on that comment if if possible yeah the idea is to get to the boat any any way to get to the boat that there you would would approve um but again C cost I guess would also be in not the not a concern the commission would regulate but one that our our client would consider and I think that would be not in favor of aluminum but more of a Timber again PVC product but well let's we can help we can help you with with your client's decision um and let you we can do a straw vote right now so you can get an indication of where individual Commissioners land um on the issue of the material um which would help you in terms of advising your client so let me poll the saying between um please order the materials in the order that you would prefer them aluminum Timber decking or PVC exactly the order aluminum Timber decking PVC okay untreated Timber untreated Timber correct well there are restrictions because it comes into contact with human feet so they use a lot of the treated materials can't be used when they're coming into contact so there's a smaller Universe of products is that the CCA to MCA type I you know you lose me on some ofbe I was making notes about the different types of yeah I read that report three times and I still W aluminum plastic be my order wood aluminum plastic is that what I said no I'm sorry aluminum wood plastic what she said okay I agree yes that yeah that that's that sounds good a few words Cheryl I actually like wood better okay but otherwise plastic is my bottom okay Mary yeah I I agree also that I prefer wood then second aluminum I do understand the lightweight properties of it and last plastic and I think as as Bob's already said the concern with the plastic is not the leeching it's you know if you look at the Woods Hole report you know the microplastics and people walking on them become uh loose and end up in the water way right uh and I and I end up in the same place um so um if you I think you would You' be hard pressed to get an approval for the the PVC decking that you've proposed um I don't see I don't see four positive votes here for that so with that um you can take the choice of aluminum or or Timber back to your client for their decision could we get it conditioned a certain way what do you mean what do you mean um could we get it conditioned with wood um would we approve are you asking us if we we would approve wood yes oh you mean now like I'm asking if if we could move forward with a condition to have the pier constructed of wood decking okay okay if if let me ask them that uh would you approve the timber yes yeah with the provisor that you submit after the fact changes in your plan right so we have two weeks to the 24th when we would do the order would you approve Timber I would approve Timber I would definitely yes I would too Mary yes me too all right so we can we can start work on an order of conditions and schedule that for the 24th that's two weeks from today you would need to in that time revise your materials um to change to the the timber decking they also don't go before zba until May 23rd so we would not be issuing the order until after that we have to hold it yeah we yeah just so just to make sure that there's no changes that zba is requiring that would require then us to actually go through an amendment process so um we can do that we will schedule this then for the 24th if everything comes in that means you would need to get materials in no it's May 23rd that they're zba yeah but we're going to we're going to we're going to approve an order and then hold it on the issuance okay so you would need to get those revised materials in by the 19th week from Friday that would give us that time to review it and we will um meet back here on the 24th to review a proposed draft order and uh vote on that that work thank you very much all right uh motion then to continue to the 24th for o I move that we continue for 14 Fox Hill Road to the meeting on April 24th for an order of PE conditions Gordon second roll call vote Bob I Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I we will see you back here in two weeks thank you thank you very much thank you very much we can approve it we won't issue it we'll have a vote but then then otherwise we have to remember another month and they are blinding in the sun yeah a lot of there's a lot of considerations all around all right Paul we are ready to move on okay next on the agenda is 21 Shad Lane clay a Rosenberg and Andrew ly Flink map 15c partial 12-6 the EP number SC10 3671 the project propos house addition pool replacement Hardscape and Associated site improvements hello hello so which dat are we on now yes we can hear you go ahead thank you I know what's this is Sean Pap I've got Derek Redgate on there Derek if you want to jump on he's on oh your mic is off April sorry sorry about that um um hello everyone Dereck Redgate from Coastal Engineering um this is our third uh meeting on this continued um for 21 shadic and I think from the last time we talked um our main topic was um uh coming up with an alternate location for some of the fencing and the pool fencing in relation to the um the buffer zone line so we've done that and we've submitted a revised um Landscaping plan that shows the location a revised location of the fencing um another question we went over last time was was there an noi filing and approval order conditions for the um original pool and um more specifically the uh the shed that's housing the um pool equipment and will continue to house the pool equipment and we did not find any um any any records of that um you know with the commission and um we looked I looked back through D through 1996 so um so uh yeah there I don't believe there was a filing um for that so we propos to you know maintain the um our current uh proposed plan in that respect okay thank you um we do note uh did receive the revised materials um see that the the fencing has been pulled back uh to surrounding the pool yes as we asked um I don't know what we do honestly about the uh absence of of pre-existing approvals uh the pool is one thing the shed is an easier uh matter it is sitting on the Coastal Bank just above it um so that's the um those two lines are the 50 to 100 yeah okay so it's in it's in the it's okay so it's in the out yeah it's outside of outside of the 50 outside of the 50 okay it's out it's out yeah all right well let me uh hear what people have to say about it yeah yeah if I could just I I don't know the history of um of D and and Chad's bylaws of when uh I think I recall that it the 50 was regulated and the 100 was not at some point um so potentially regulations have changed in the in the time period but I'm not positive that it's just um speculation mhm they would have had to have gone through a would think a building permit at some point one of the previous owners whoever however many owners ago that would have been um and so at one point or another would have had to come through town hall um certainly yeah there was less less restrictive buffers I can't say for the time when they built this because we don't know exactly when it was built um but we've had to come to town hall building permit do you have any idea you have any record of the building permit nothing nothing yeah not in our research I mean I'm guessing yeah we we we don't know when the um the pool was uh was actually constructed I guess it was uh probably early 90s is is my my guess okay well if it was early if your guess is correct then we've gathered over the years that projects that that the was paying attention to conservation permits in the early 80s so you're whoever put the pool in was definitely late to the game in with all likelihood don't know it it's it still sits um we are reducing the impervious surfaces we're reducing the structure in the 100 foot buffer from what it is today we are bringing the fence in from where it sits today as much as as little as 10 ft and as much as say 30 to 40t further up the hill than what it is currently today can I can I just add a very light line uh can I just add that it was it was agreed upon to remove the fence completely out of the buffer and we we were we wanted to do that that the um the wall we talked about using the wall for pool enclosure the wall that we have that surrounds the there is not meet the 4T enclosure until it gets to right really close to the 100t buffer so we Tred to get it right into where we were doing our plantings what um line that is um the compromise that we could do because we've got um you know you can wouldn't have the enclosure capabilities till it it gets to be a little bit of a taller wall and then he brings it in and then it goes right we brought it in substantially where it is it sits down the hill quite a ways today right that was the issue well that was the question whether or not we could where we could actually meet that pool enclosure with the wall itself and in this case we don't the wall does not get to be 4 feet tall until we get to really right at that uh 100t buffer right right and we're bringing it if you look at the very light line um it sits uh to the right there essentially on the plan um very very light line it sits quite ways down you can see it running kind of kind of running north south um quite a bit into with the x's on that's the current location right um if you um it's to the right of our uh label that is for the uh Beach plums there the the five Beach plums you can see it kind of going at an angle going straight down it actually gets into the 50 currently and goes over to the property line so we're pulling it way up the hill to go as close to right around the pool yeah does it make sense I don't have an issue with it being up here know I think it's better yeah no it's way better and if the wall is not sufficient for under the safety standards they have to have something else so yeah okay anybody else yes because I'm me um I went on the tax assessor database that has the complete record of the the assessments and the reviews of everything that's been done to the house the pool is not listed there is a hot tub listed um but there's no listing on this record at all of a pool and I don't know what that means does it list it doesn't list the shed either does it no is it possible that this pool was built without any bir building permit without anything yeah wow well the good news is we're taking this pool out you guys yeah yeah that's that's true that is true we're removing this pool and we're putting in less yeah how about that why don't you just remove the pool thank you Mary wait if you just stop there we're perfect good we're good not going to happen what we find we'll bring the spa to you wherever that Spa is going to be we'll pull that out and bring it to you how about that okay so so this is not we we cannot look at this as a replacement of pre-existing or anything like that this is looking at it as if it is proposed for the first time so mitigation probably changes correct because they're saying they're pulling it back in the outer Aura but actually it's all considered new structure so there'd be a portion of it in the in the 100 foot there'd be a portion of that right part Hardscape in the 100 foot right you got Hardscape you have swimming pool you this bit here yeah yeah you barely get the spa out of the 100 it's touching you've got walls mhm I mean that has to be figured into your yeah calculations is it already fig just the wall they were saying it it it's a reduction increase in Hardscape and it's now which is true from what is currently there but not from what was permitted yeah and then the shed shed and I'm not real excited about I mean since it's not permitted I mean I'll take on the shed why can't you move it back Beyond you know move it sort of to the left you outside of the 100 but if not almost outside of the hundred on that far left at The Cutting border and where you're putting the fence and check to see if we yeah double check to see if we need to have building setbacks for that equipment yeah um oh it's holding the pool equipment right yeah I thought so it's already piped over that way probably I mean if you can move this lawn area up here there's there lawn areas that that are outside of the jurisdiction which would be yeah like um um if you head north of the Terrace slf fire pit and go beyond all that you're outside of our jurisdiction and it's lawn and I would assume your setbacks would be pretty good since the building goes further than the shed would and then you're totally out of our jurisdiction for it just thoughts right right understood yeah I I I think we could look look for an alternate location I I think you know there's quite a bit of slope um you know on the site if you go north of the 100 foot buffer right you know there's a addition with with some really really big drop offs and grade I don't know if that affects sort of how the cool pumps you know they might get bigger and and I I I think we could move it you know would be kind of an insignificant change if we moved a little closer and out of the setbacks but we still would be um have to comply with uh the zoning setbacks um so I don't think the a relocation to that area would you wouldn't be really doing much maybe you know the scale of this plant I don't know what it is maybe 20 ft or something like that um I so I don't see much improvement in in in in relocating it um you know this has probably been the condition here for over 30 years I think I think if we had an attorney on our team we might it might sort of be you know past that time period where it is an existing condition and you'd have and probably recommend looking at it that way may maybe there is no statute of limitations right yeah for conservation right it's an ongoing violation which you know just every day it sits there it's a it's another new day there is no statute limit I don't know enough about it to so I guess where where I'm hearing people ending is um I'm sorry about this is unfortunate for your client I know there's been multiple owners and somehow you know in the transfer of the property from owner to owner to owner uh the fact that it was built without any permits was lost um um and it's uh they're they're they're paying the price for it but um you know that's just the way that is I'm hearing that um two things so one is um recalculating your coverage calculations without regard to changes in the existing as if this so recalculating it as if it's new um so that we can make sure that way we'll double check hold on just one that that relates to the amount of mitigation and make sure that's in balance and is what it needs to be um the the plan I'm looking at doesn't have the coverage on it at the moment so I can't tell um and and it's around 600 we have around 660 to 6 700 with inside the 100 right now currently on that plan square feet 660 to 700 yeah somewhere around there and um we actually continued native plant Beyond but all right and so what do you have what do you know about your current uh your total mitigation and I'm not sure what will be required to we'll just have to run the numbers yeah from whatever that proposed Hardscape is up to that 100 foot yeah it's all in the outer Aura so it's one to one one to one right so you would have you know roughly whatever that same number of we're pretty close actually okay yeah I think we're probably pretty close at this point we might be okay yeah might be over we're probably over already all right so we have one more hearing and ahead of us um to double check those figures redo that and see if you can move that shed um out of there um it's an nonpermanent structure I just wanted to add also don't forget some of that planting is not in our jurisdiction so you can't really count count that planting goes inside the jurisdiction yeah okay thanks right yeah no the only one they counted is what's in the jurisdiction yep yep yeah we we we have the we have the area of you know what's proposed within the 50 and 100 calculated on on our plans already uh we we just did the did the math on it subtracting so we we have that number we'll have to just make sure that our plantings um you know mitigate that same that same square footage so we will need to you know update you with that number okay um so okay and Janet yes just had a question on the Japanese knotweed yep uh what's the story on that I I I asked about that before uh you said you're going to put together a management plan for that and uh maybe show on the on the planting plan um where you going to manage it right because if you don't manage it it's going to end up in your new plantings yeah and we'd have to manage it really in that area primarily in that area alone probably where we're going with that um we would be doing cutting in the usage of of uh glyphosate as well as um steady diet of cutting seasonal cutting multiple times per season and kind of leave a gap between the new plantings and the and the uh existing Japanese knotweed so it doesn't spread into the new plantings correct we're looking at the opportunity to potentially do a liner if we can to see if there'd be any Effectiveness for that we might be able to use as an edging yeah the um they spread by The Roots they go under any edging you can imagine I've done I've done steel edging two feet deep and they went under they go underneath that yeah they'll go under that's where we're trying to go to almost that depth if we could if we can't then we just have to do continued cutting is really um what we're finding out is is the appropriate the only you're going to find out it's tough to get rid of I know okay don't that's the understatement of the day I'm going to say perhaps yeah yeah you're right all right so what I have here is that uh you'll do you'll update your materials to calculate the um the coverage and the proposed mitigation you'll add the management of knotweed uh and put that on the plan and um see if that shed can be moved out of there to another feasible area good once that's done we can talk about it order of conditions so what is what what POS we're effectively approving this pool yeah yeah even though apparently is we have no indication it was ever permitted in any way shape or form so the question the way I look at this project now is different now yeah yeah I look at it would we have permitted this if it were coming before us now and that's why I zoomed back on this house it's a very large dwelling and it is probably we would have said well there's no reason to put that pool in in the a because there's plenty of room well outside and we did ask if they would consider moving it further out of the aura or decrease the patio and and nothing changed nothing changed right and so it would seem that that's something think we should open the door on again to me I'm I'm good with that CU at least is there a movement or a desire to consider the 50 to 100 a no touch zone now is that not necessarily but is that the angle we're pushing is no no the angle the angle we're pushing here is that when you look at the project now with fresh eyes and zooming back dollying back as it were this there's a there's the house consumes a lot of space and now to have the pool you know looking at it as if we were getting this project proposed as it is here we probably would have said and probably would say can you get further out of the aura out of our jurisdiction before we were looking at it as if it were placing an long existing structure that we assumed was approved in some way or another and now we have no reason to think that's true so that shifts my perspective and I think probably I'm not the only one uh we did as Karen say said discuss the possibility of shrinking the patio which does look to be healthy size in order to further um what's the word decrease the impact Yeah well yeah because because now it's almost like we're we're talking about a new structure well it is like we're talking about a new structure it is a new structure so that's that's where I'm coming from the house itself is um it's being described as large um there's a the main body of the house is remaining the same um very well done piece of architecture that Patrick and Architects are working on um there the same general form of what it does today is it getting bigger yes it is uh but if you were look at the architectural plans I think you'd be impressed all of the garden space right behind the houses remaining the same the walls that we're showing that have got the Curves in them there those are existing as they are today so we were trying to work around what was existing in fact again I know you'd say that the deck of uh piece or the the um the pool area you question about whether or not you'd approve it getting just a little bit into the 100 foot buffer um yeah it's easy to say that now um but there is a pool there again it's the the flattest area we can find on the property in that point um The Terrace area that sits above replaces a gazebo that's a roof structure right now it's a pretty good size gazebo there and it has a um basement that's got a shed in it so it's a full structure with concrete block um that is a block basically a block basement for gazebo sitting above it right where we have the fire pit now which will all be permeable uh Paving permeable and softscape so I do think there's a lot of positives that come out of this plan over what is there today um and again I know you you might say now of course that um you may not appreciate that pool getting again just a little bit into the 100 foot buffer I know you can say it now but um even that other structure is the Gazebo structure uh is sits well outside the 100 we were removing that I mean that's really another piece of architecture we're removing and replacing with permeable Paving in a small fire pit so I do think there are a lot of positive are coming out of out of this master plan this site plan but that part the Gazebo or the what's now terrorists fire pit is not in our jurisdiction we correctly we don't look at that but if you do consider that you have Terrace you have patio you know you've got quite a bit of outdoor living space and you have a very large pool at 40 ft and long and so you could even decrease the size of the pool a little and it would have less impact in our our jurisdictional area thank you that that's my thought that that's my thought exactly I mean would it be the end of the world if to get what you want to just reduce the size of the pool a little bit pull the patio back some and then it's done um would that wouldn't be I mean it's a good siiz pool it might depend on to what degree it might depend on to what degree that is right so is would it be the end the world to remove it or excuse me to to reduce it a little bit oh no probably not probably not but if you're saying to reduce it to a size that's you know less than 36 ft or something like that in length and narrower than 18 or something like that that would still be pretty good what's that again yeah 36 is a very good size pool yeah yeah 18 by 36 is still one of the standards we use um so um it's you know I know that that'd be the end of the world no what's the width of the pool 20 right now it's at 20 if you would turn 18 yeah 18 is usually pretty common I you know I'm just I think at least for me I'm asking that things be considered and come back with sort of the best plan that you possibly can and we go from there right it is I I'll say it again again it's unfortunate for all of us that that that we're in a situation that um we've have a change in reality uh at the last minute so and I agree with Bob it it does change the perspective because we've been very focused on the fact that you were reducing coverage and even though we look at this and go that's a big pool and a very big patio but at least it's reducing coverage um that calculation goes out the window um you I get you're reducing what's there but what's there is illegal um there is no statute of of uh limitations for enforcing Wetlands protection act so uh we can't we're just not allowed to consider what's there anymore so then we're back to looking at it and going well it's a really big pool and a really big patio um so there's nothing to balance that so we're going to ask you to see what your client is willing to do to shrink that um and then get new coverage calculations again uh mitigation area calculations move the shed and put the knotweed uh management anything else I don't think so oh that's plenty of homework right there that's a lot of homework that's this is just a this mate all right um how long do you think you need to to do that we could do it for the 24th which would mean everything would need to be in by the 19th we Friday or we could do it for the for may we think yeah we think we could do that I'd have to talk to Derek about whether or not they can do it but we think I mean the bulk of this is on how we design it and work with our client on it so we could we could do that get everything by the 19th so we can schedule for the 24th okay all right we will do that April 19th to you April 19th is a deadline for submission and the hearing will be continued to the 24th April 24th yep and you're putting us on first right is that what he said no guarantee no guarantees but we'll we'll consider that airport oh the airport's coming that day so oh no please would you like to go one later go to May 1 oh my goodness don't make us SP through that come on have a heart you we look at what just got hit look at we just got all right we'll see what we can do about getting you on early in the show I appreciate all right okay thank you I move that we continue 21 sha Lane to the meeting on April 24th 2024 for notice of intent Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leas hi Karen hi Eric I Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I see you back here in two weeks from today thank you yeah all right Paul uh word to the coc's moment to coc's uh 34 scattery Road 34 scatter Road realy trust map 16 I parcel 32-2 SC10 3576 this was a restoration an order conditions issued for a restoration of unauthorized vegetation removal all work that is within the scope of this order has been regulated by se10 3669 a different order bad I don't know if he's online but we did do that a little unusual so I haven't seen it before but thank you Tad for chiming in oh okay through the chair I'll defer to you if you want to give a brief history but we're I think we're all set the yeah application's complete that submitted uh ongoing conditions I checked those against the other conditions in other order they're the same so the application complete and this this seems like it was uh you know tied up into a new order that was issue later on so I don't have any issues with it yeah the order the order is clear and that it incorporates all the conditions of the prior order so just saying that issuing a certificate of completion is not going to come back to haunt us down the road uh if those conditions are not met because they they live in the newer order so I don't okay I'm not going to worry about it then that's that's fine you won't we wouldn't be able to enforce this anyway so all right with that I think uh yep move to approve I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 34 scattery Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi Mary hi and I vote I that one's done thank you Thad okay Paul next two next on the agenda certificate of compliance 24 Avalon Point Road Scott Brown map 12 L parcel 15c L4 D number se10 3297 propos castal Bank restoration shorefront stabilization and minor house editions I was on the phone with castal engineering this morning um I wasn't involved with these These are older I had no concept of the history but there were some changes things that happened uh with 24 and 30 so I think it would be better if Sean if he's on he could explain the procedural history unless you unless the commission's familiar with it no Sean I could yeah yeah go ahead Sean John John if he's not here we'll just continue it because here he is he's coming he's here all right there he goes hey Sean hello hello the record Sean Riley Ty Bond representing the applicant you're up um can you hear me yep yep okay I'm going to share my screen and sorry about the confusion on this one there's actually two open orders of conditions uh on this property uh the one that we're here for is for the uh stabilization of the Coastal Bank the um can you see this Photograph yep yes okay so so uh there was a lot of uh tree loss uh with scouring and uh it the proposal was to uh Implement a a fiber roll array um this is the fiber roll array installation here and uh you can see uh this is the final product here with the fiber rolls covered all the vegetation uh growing back in will remove the um the temper irrigation uh once we receive uh assuming we receive a a certificate of compliance uh for the project the um the other uh project was for the house rais and replace I think part of the confusion um in the file is that this started out as a a two-part uh notice of intent with a stabilization component and a couple of house additions uh partway through um the applicant decided that uh they weren't going to pursue the the um building additions they were going to pursue a raisin replace So the plan was um replaced and submitted and approved by the commission with the additions um removed from the plan uh as is called out in the um order of conditions and references the 1015 18 plan which is the one uh that shows the additions being removed uh from the proposed site plan so it turned into um just a stabilization uh project that um Wilkinson completed um and we've submitted uh photographs uh there was some confusion as to whether or not an asilt were required uh for this uh we were hoping that the um the images that we submitted for the file for the uh the array uh would be sufficient for the asilt these are the essentially the um photos that we submitted uh it's in the exact location that we proposed it um and now it's all covered up with um sand and vegetation Johan if I could just add in on the asilt um in the past I have been asked and i' recommended the commission that if it if it's a vegetation management project and as buil you know isn't really necessary if you've got um upto-date monitoring reports photographs and a certification from the landscape folks that um it's in compliance and all the conditions uh that are in the order been met but when it comes to buildings that's different we usually requires so that just to clarify for the future yep yeah and in this on this one where we've removed the buildings it's out of this component um we will be submitting when we file uh in the future as soon as our plants have uh lasted the three years on the Upland project the other order conditions when we file that we will be submitting an asilt with that uh for the building okay but that's not on the table right now wait a minute so there's there are there's a third order of conditions no no there's there's there's only two orders there's only two orders there is this there is this order here for the stabilization work and then the second the second order that we have is for the replacement of the house and pool area right what number is that is that 3318 which one is that that is 30 it's not in front of you now this is not in front of you so I don't want to confuse you so there are three there are so 3297 and 3318 are both for the shore line stabilization they are they are we have it I'm sorry yes there are three there's one for the neighboring property one for this property and then an up one okay correct okay we're on the same page you can see why I couldn't get through it yeah I do so yeah so yeah we hadn't opened up the other one um so yes there's one for 24 there's one for 30 and then there's another one for the house on 24 that will be coming in the future okay so all we're looking at today is 24 and 30 for the shoreline stabilization you got it okay and this is the uh this is the site plan for um for 30 here yep yep so there's 24 and then 30 is along the same same length and then we've got uh photographs for for that one as well that um that we've submitted which is some nice photographs actually you can see all the stabilization they did up on the bank look at that and then um Ste Bank it is that's a steep bank and then this is the vegetation they did a really nice job of of filling that in and uh getting everything to grow that's not quite how it looks right now but yes the the the fiber yeah yeah winter dorcy y a lot of the fiber rolls are exposed every all over town but that's the winter storms yeah and I talked to one of the um your customers the applicants and they said that they're no longer able to use the access road the neighbors shut them off so yes so we're working with those neighbors uh we're actually working with the town with the DPW there's an issue with the drainage on the culdesac that's ended up going going down that road and uh just the access um through there complicates things with any of the rutting or reeling that's happening so we'll probably be coming for uh before you with uh a fix for that access uh drainage improvements for the access to um to stop the erosion that's happening basically there's no there's no drainage in the culdesac uh up above so we're working with the DP uh DPW right now to rectify that and then we'll attack that road next okay CU I was talking to the homeowner we thought maybe five gallon buckets that but other than that he can't go down the access road anymore so there going to be a lot of buckets all right so Paul so these these this uh Shoreline project for the on these two adjacent properties is this is appropriate for a certificate now that we understand that's we're dealing with uh as far as the shoreline protection goes I'm still um can I read the next one just we he right oh you got the next one is uh 30 Avalon Point Road Kon Judith Joy map 12 L parcel 15D dl5 DS number 10 3318 propos short front protection so yes they've submitted everything they need to on the short front protection um we agreed to Crystal did to put the uh ongoing conditions as you know we have the requirement now that the applicant submits them but because um the some of this was done you know back in a little while back before we got that policy going crystal is just going to take care of the ongoing conditions for this but as to the rest of the application and um the monitoring reports everything the photographs um it did take a hit in the storm but yeah I think it's uh in compliance and I would recommend issuing it the only question I have um Sean is so the minor house editions are which one we how we doing all that the the minor house Edition has been completely removed and it's off the table now so that was removed it was part of this one and it was removed so that is no longer part of this order all right okay so to to make this easy I I I reved both of them and after all the clarification that we've gotten from Sean um and the review of the file and what they submitted um they are I think um they they should get a full certificate for the proposed shorefront protection on both projects okay um okay go for I move we approve the certificate of compliance for 24 Avalon Point Road and Avalon I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 24 Avalon Point Road and 30 Avalon Point Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl Mary I and I vote I I all right that one's approved and all right thank you all thank you Sean yeah appreciate it arriving just in time uh last one yeah K yep uh 67 Capri Lane minglewood homes map 13 C parcel CB and C10 SC10 3560 demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling Pool Patio Title 5 system um the applicant requesting a partial partial certificate for the dwelling pool and P Pao and this was on um at the last hearing and we did get the ads built and we did get the ongoing conditions so I think we have a complete application at this point and I would recommend approval okay do you have anything to say about that no okay then we're good anybody have a question question yes first of all I want to say the mitigation was excellent um good size plants uh I wish I they were all like that and the only other question I have is who responsible for the maintenance uh because you said Crawford and then someone else did it so who's in the loop with this Crawford is oh Crawford okay so yeah so they'll come in and do the the annual maintenance have a contract set up for them for the three years that's it thanks all right I move that we approve a partial certificate of compliance for 67 Capri Lane Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leise hi aaren hi Eric I Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I all right thank you very much you've got your ready to get home for dinner right that's right all right we have minutes March 13 Madam chairman I could oh yes yes I'm sorry if I could thank you very much uh Tim is too polite to ask but uh we're the sale of this property this next week on Tuesday and with the uh Monday holiday for some people we'd like to get the package out very soon so if we could obtain the partial certificate of compliance sooner rather than later that would be most appreciated okay um Paul and or Crystal did you hear that well Monday's a holiday and I'm I haven't spun Miss on you but I'm off next week but I do we have a form that we can sign if we if you bring it down we can sign it and then they must have the Crystal can issue it tomorrow or Friday I'll try to find it in Crystal's really organized stuff okay she has so organized sometimes I can't find anything okay I'll try to come down with that okay that's that's yeah that's the best thank you Paul thank you thank you Paul appreciate your assistance thank you oh thank you attorney L them um the minutes are not in the drop box we're going to hold that okay I didn't see them which means I didn't read them which means what okay so nobody read them so we're we're going to have to hold on those all right so do we vote do we have to vote to no we don't do anything to do it next time I didn't think so okay all right Paul while you're looking for the form for the certificate let me have a I need just to need a word with everybody here so we have two ons sites to schedule um you know I thought about polling everybody here with your availability but it's too late and I don't really want to it's just that my brain's not working so if I use the dreaded doodle poll and send that to you um and ask you to indicate um you know I'll break it up into like you know morning or afternoon without making it any more specific than that and then I'll give that to Paul and with that he can arrange with the uh Reps for the two site visits will that work okay and okay good we also have uh three orders that are going to be scheduled for um the next hearing on the 24th and Karen's away starting tomorrow until until the night of the 23rd so um we have 62 Chase we have 14 Fox Hill and 16 Seine whoever volunteers gets first pick I do one okay which one do you want just just just 414 [Laughter] you got it that's one I if I had taken can I put a big paragraph in there about yeah you can put you can yeah put anything you want might not make it to the end but all right any takers for Chase Street yeah 62 Chase it doesn't matter to me that's fine or would you rather have 16 C Pine I don't remember them so I just matter well 16 C Pun It's been a while I'll take would just pick one which name do you like better okay then I'll take 62 Chase we're we're good we got it um oh no I shouldn't have I deleted all of that um okay the last thing um so we can't talk about it substantively because it's not on the agenda this is unforeseen um material stuff that's coming up so in two weeks we have the airport coming back so two things about that one is in order to expedite um getting things finalized as much as we can I would ask everybody to please submit any questions that you have that you do not think have been answered to your satisfaction yet and send those to me and then I'll help Paul will package them together and get them out to um Adrien and Mark so that they come prepared to answer those questions once and for all I know that many people have nagging things so let's be as specific as we can and say Here's your last shot at getting an answer secondly highly recommend that you hike down the hill to the Vernal pool and if you go from the path leading from the back of the job lot like we did before and you head sort of straight on it's an open area it's it's a lot flatter to get to it there's a little bit of fencing before the fencing there a little bit of a downgradient not too bad sort of the right side of the Vernal pool but it's a bit flatter but it's it'll allow Jan and I Karen and I went there today and it might change the way you think about some of that that's all I'll say or clarify or it's clarifying it it changed some of my thinking about it and I think it's well worth it um not going to do on site I don't want to make Adrian and Mark drive all the way down here again but um and you have two weeks so on a nice day hike on over there and take a look at that as an aside I was able to go with Oxbow and Crystal and Paul on Monday and I mean they were there a lot longer than I was but just to let you know they found fairy shrimp all males they have horns they're having a party see them but anyway they're not making any judgments about they have ctis flies they found ghost mges but the most important they found um spotted salamander egg Ness we used to be all over the place when I was a kid here so just so you know we haven't gotten their report but that was yeah I said ctis okay and and ghost midges so um anyway uh they found things but we don't have their report yet that's just me saying in the first half hour this is what they showed us yeah Mary what do you have you no I was just going to say as I've listened to um the Massachusetts uh whatever that seminar was where they were talking about Max uh presentation on the importance of vernal pools and that was one of the things that they brought up is um that you they can only reproduce in vernal pools correct right they're unique and yes and so all right so anyway all right so that's it we'll be back on the 24th um motion to adjourn I move that we adjourn Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leise hi Karen I Eric hi Bob hi Cheryl hi Mary hi I vote I thank you everybody hanging in there for three and a half not too bad so do we need to establish a dating s shrimp I know they need some girls I mean they don't uh [Music] [Music] don't [Music] he e