##VIDEO ID:Oo_yP_5PLtc## e e e e e e e let good afternoon this is a hearing of the chadam Conservation Commission being held on October 2nd 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of chadam wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my name is Karen Laton and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on Xfinity 1072 and is being recorded up for the on demand archives available on the town's website it is being conducted in person by phone and by video conference the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review are posted on the town's website to all participants no we're not whether attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you have been recognized by the chair when recognized please identify yourself for the record if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute by using star 6 if you're online and you are not a commissioner please keep your camera turned off unless you've been recognized indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature so that we have a record of a quorum I will now ask each commissioner to indicate their presence by Vice chair Elise G Gordon present Janet Williams present Cheryl missery present Eric Hilbert present Paul Johnson present Bob Delio present and I'm here we have established that we have a full group and a quorum before we begin the agenda are there any announcements about any requests for continuances or withdrawals Catherine yes the following applicant has requested the Contin ation uh field change request at 227 Vineyard Avenue the applicant has requested a continuance to November 13th 2024 great thank you at this point Katherine Ricks our chadam assistant conservation agent will now lead us through the agenda okay Catherine starting with the requests for order of conditions at 177 Countryside Drive map 6 61 parcel n14 for Robert P and Natalie Coleman Fuller D SE number 10- 3694 construction of additions Renovations Farmers porch and Second Story expansion to a single family dwelling work will will occur within the 100 foot of a Coastal Bank on monay River within the riverfront and within the Pleasant Bay AC the applicant has requested to withdraw the application without prejudice okay thank thank you okay Elise I move that we approve the withdrawal of the application for 177 Countryside drive without prejudice second Cheryl I Paul hi Janet I Elise I Eric I Bob I and I say I okay Katherine the next okay request for an extension at 14 perrywinkle map 4C parcel L7 for Alan hanowski d SE number 10- 3344 propos vinyl sheeting to enhance existing Gavins extension is requested to complete the handrails 54 decking fill railroad tie stairs with 3/4 inch Stone and LOM and reced around the stairs this is the second extension request it expires 10:17 2024 okay thank you uh Mr hanowitz I see you're on if do you have anything you want to say no I thought the letter was explanatory yes so I was told you had questions no I I Now understand that the reason for the second extension is because a tree fell on your truck and you're using the truck to do the work and so you need the truck to be fixed is that correct yes okay I'm sorry that all happened and I'm sorry we didn't vote on it last week I I was told you'd be attending and then didn't have all the details so I didn't realize what was going on so I think we're ready for a motion I move that we approve the second extension request for 14 Perry winkl Lane to October 17th 2025 second Cheryl I Paul hi jet I Elise I Eric hi Paul Bob I and I say I not used to so many people um okay so you're all set you've gotten your extension so thank you very much okay Catherine we can go to the next okay request for an extension at 275 Champlain road map 12a parcel 2 for Burton B stair D SE number 10- 3512 deck relocation and invas species management expires 114 2025 the extension is requested to ensure plantings have sufficient time to establish prior to closing the order of conditions okay thank you do we have anybody here for this I didn't think we probably would um does anybody have any comments or questions about this one it's the one where they're putting the deck and then doing plantings and that was it um it's in the middle of woods to put it mildly so I guess you know we we yes so um and I'm not seeing any hands up so I guess we can entertain a motion I move that we approve the extension uh for 275 Champlain road to January 14th 2026 second okay Cheryl I Paul I Janet I Elise I Eric I Bob I and I say I so that one's passed as well okay Katherine next hey moving on to field change request at 227 Vineyard Avenue map 11 C parcel D13 31 for an ainaro D SE number 10- 3471 garage addition and invasive species control this after the fact field change is for an extension to an existing low native New England Field Stone Wall for stabilization of the garage foundation and to protect from erosion caused by wind extreme high tides and storm water runoff the applicant has requested a continuance to November 13th 2024 okay can we have a motion please I move that we approve the request for continuance for 227 Vineyard Avenue to November 13 2024 second Cheryl I Paul I Janet I Elise I Eric I Bob I and I say I okay Katherine the next okay we have a notice of intent at parcel h13 Captain n's way map 11c parcel h13 for Ming Le wood Homes Incorporated D SE number 10- 3698 construction of a dwelling within the riverfront area and the buffer zone to a Coastal Bank and construction of a swimming pool within the buffer zone to a Coastal Bank how are you H good afternoon David Clark Clark engineering on behalf of minglewood Tim Smith of minglewood is in the audience I believe Jen yep it is Jen uh from Crawford uh so we've made some Chang changes uh after the our first meeting um we requested that we reduce the uh coverage within the uh outer order uh I felt it was too close to the 35% so the pool has been shrunk up and uh as well as the patio uh we eliminated one parking extra parking space in the driveway uh and some of the Hardscape has been changed uh if you look to the west of the pool uh we had uh th extending those retaining walls all the way to the property line uh and we switched that to a post and rail fence uh so that really the only disturbance in that area will be the Jen is here to talk about the trees and go ahead and then we'll do all questions because they might the last hearing a table that had all the information in terms of as simple as possible and um just created a symbol that uh had a number in it that then correlated with the um tree removal table as well as uh your regulations for that Dave already through um the other thing that you had asked us about was go through and uh we kind of extrapolated the buffer zones uh based on what was already in the file um and so Accord according to that um within your jurisdiction with that outer Riverfront area um I only provided details for you um in terms of what is in the we can do that um but those are the the changes that we that we made and and the resubmission that we uh that we put in okay thank you um I think I'm GNA let others go first anybody have any comments questions Janet aha uh hello yes uh my name is Ian Warner I'm with Easter landscape design yes the landscape architect is not me right that's we yep you were clear about that last time correct Jen go ahead I'm quiet as noty go ahead okay so we had been asking about the if you could walk us through the pool is really serves a couple purposes um it um and on the other side it consistently along the back from uh probably about elevation 29 inre in height along the back um it makes solving that grade issue along the house to get positive drainage away from the house easier for us to have the wall well but I would think the retaining walls sort of holding keeping you know if you didn't have the retaining wall there it would just float down and you have a retaining wall so that's stopping it from going straight down and it would go you're needing it to go beyond the house maybe I'm wrong um but I'm just looking at plans so you know it's a little harder to visualize but um part of the reason I'm asking this is you there are a few trees being taken out on that end that I think could be saved if this retaining wall weren't being put in it seems that at least one of them is because of right on where you want to put the retaining wall well and we might be able to even if we were able to shorten it a little bit and bring it you know only half of that volume of house that seems like it would pull away from that enough too to be able to save it correct well the x is right on top of the wall so I I can't speak accurately you know maybe it's it can still be saved I just I I'm bothered by a retaining wall That's retaining I assume lawn and where you could pull it in and just have whatever's coming off of the house there it's just a thought and I'd love for it to be considered okay through the chair there also looks like there is um some sort of utilities or structure under there I don't know if it's dry well um or what on that corner but we'll have to take a look at that as well because if if there is any trenching that needs to go through there the wall won't make a difference in terms of tree preservation but I'm sure that's something that um that Dave can take a look at okay yeah I do see that there's something and I have to find the site plan to be able to know what it is um I don't really know yeah that's one of move that pool equipment yeah well maybe that could be moved I don't know and there's a little box I don't know what that box is yeah that's the part I'm trying to find so anyway that's I think that's as far as my concerns about the retaining W I don't know if anybody else has opinions on that before Janet goes on to whatever else I agree with your points Karen I think that the drainage the point on the drainage with a wall blocking it since it's a slope to begin with you're going to create you could potentially create a pool there instead of a a pool of water not a swimming pool um a pool of water there and heavy rains so I would agree with shortening that wall okay I just have a quick question I guess I'm just having a hard time picturing what's happening at that corner so you have the proposed patio that comes to the corner and then is that just going to be dirt that you're filling in behind the wall it's retaining wall to make it up to a certain grade and then yes cuz the the Pao will be up at around 29 okay to 30 and and the existing grade at the end of The Patio was 28 okay so the idea was to put the wall and and fill to the other building to level it out to the other that's what's being proposed and that's what I just was having a hard time picturing it for some reason okay thank you very much Dave would it be flat to the wall or slope to the you're going to fill it to make it flat to the wall or sloped The Proposal was to have it flat to the wall yes okay anybody else yeah the only thing I can say is as far as that Oak that oak tree goes uh you know you might be coming the applicant might be coming down the road shortly to remove that tree because it's so close to the patio in the house um what what what number four which number um the one that's like on top of the retaining wall okay that's number four so you know I I I think number four would go anyways due to the excavation for the foundation um but I think we're talking about five and six at this point can we save those yeah exactly right so what what is the percentage you're at now you you're you are at 30 or something 33.9 so now you're down to 33 the way this plan is 33.9 yeah thanks welcome Bob do you have anything with the retaining wall no have a question on The Lawns I have a question on The Lawns lawn areas what uh what's that going to be uh what's that going to consist of uh the lawn area would be um probably a um seed mix of um Black Beauty type lawn non non-irrigated permanently correct not not expected yeah that it would not be irrigated because I think that's in your performance standards it is um and uh I think that's all I had on the on the Landscaping itself around the building um I had a few questions for Jen um Jen we mentioned um well I mentioned having a uh post and rail fence along the uh mitigation area to the South right on the edge of the driveway yes so um so we added the actually I believe that Tim uh Tim added the post and rail fence along the edge of the driveway uh that area uh behind it would be naturalized but you're correct the mitigation area the formal mitigation area so to speak on the plan um is even um further towards the Wetland I guess yeah I see that yeah yeah so have a fence around it it if you want a double fence it it could otherwise uh the one that would run along the driveway is shown on the plan um would be in theory kind of protecting even more than just the mitigation area so um I think that is uh Tim might want to weigh in on that uh but that would be something that I think uh you guys should weigh in on as well yeah so the the fence would be uh bordering the mitigation area but we talked about having edging along the uh Meadow areas correct yes we did and I I'm fine with that from um you know the mitigation area and restoration standpoint um and Tim if that makes sense to you um we can note that more clearly on our plan there's the fence and then so how how you doing this Tim Smith minglewood homes um so Bob I put that fence in next to the driveway I thought that's where you wanted it but we can actually if we want to move that fence down more into where the mitigation is determined we can definitely do that and just and just yeah sure and then uh you know the the outline of the driveway will protect the meadow I think but uh where the other Meadow areas are to the Northwest there's a meadow area um and some other areas uh along the uh top of the uh mitigation area any areas that are against the lawn I would say would need an U would need some edging okay steel edging okay sure we can do that that'll keep the lawn from traveling into that area yeah okay um no problem we can note that on our plan as well and make sure that that's clear that that um single rail split rail will be moved to the edge of the mitigation area and that the meadow and Lawn interfaces so to speak have a steel Edge okay terrific can I go ahead Bob go ahead Tom well I was just gonna Karen can I Bob you finish up what you're doing and then I'll ask and the um the other thing I had for Jen um yeah so you're going to have to uh rework that Circle then because it's in the uh Riverfront area correct yes you you are correct I um I missed that on my uh review of our resubmission that's uh that's my fault I apologize we will get you the full information on on the entire circle yeah we walked that yesterday there are a couple of uh Scotch Pines in there uh they're not native but uh there are a couple of trees in there and then there are a couple of Cedars um so is yeah go as long as they're far enough into the center of the circle so that we can still that there's maneuverability and clearance for emergency vehicles and everything else around the outside um they can um will leave them and then rate with with other natives around them so it'll just be dependent on their location but I I think we actually might have that information I'll um regroup with Dylan after after today and we'll um get you more on that more specifics yeah the Scotch Pines are actually um close to the edge of the circle so they may have to go anyway yeah but there are some cedars in there um that could be saved I think a couple okay we'll take a closer look and I'll get you more details on that okay thank you that that's all I had for now thank you I quick question on the planting list do you have any room for what is that butterfly weed called uh huh do you have any room for that um go ahead say it what what were you going to say what's it yeah we it's that butterfly bush no not the bush do you have an uh huh butterfly milked milked you havea yeah can you uh figure out an area for that nice for the for a milked little milked area yeah it does great and it's um might even work in the center yeah it's one of the key pollinator species for the monarch butterfly um and we actually even if we put them in as um plugs uh for inance I put some in my front yard at my house uh in June I think of this year just little tiny restoration plugs and they um had caterpillars on them in August so it's amazing how quickly they actually trct the species that they're there for so uh yeah we can we may even be able to seed um to seed it with the meadow areas oh that'd be awesome thanks sure J did you have more yep I thought I'd let you finish yeah no I just wanted David to clar if you could clarify for us where the the uh shrinkage the decrease in coverage happened I've got here so in the 50 Foot 50 to 100 um looks like in the Pool and Patio did that come in a little bit 60 it did it it it I think one of the concerns with the commission was the wall being so close to the no disturb zone line uh that one corner so it got it got pulled back and then uh over on the driveway way we had the commission thought it was much more driveway than was needed so we removed one of the parking spaces so that's 9 by 18 um that shrunk up okay got that okay just wanted to understand where it was all coming from because I was trying to never mind um so um Jen thank you for the uh tree removal plan and thank you for numbering them it makes it makes discussing them a lot easier um so just to clarify at the last hearing you confirmed for us that with the exception of one black cherry every tree within the limit of work is coming out is that right that uh I believe that that is correct due to every reason as stated on there the limit of work um has been held pretty tight to the limits of the grading um and typically wherever there's grading um trees are just not not able to survive um especially not if they're being um you know if more than a third of their root system is being impacted on on the outer edges of the drip zone or if they're being filled um so that that is correct so it's hard to it's just hard for me to accept that I mean I'm I totally I usually am on board for trees removal within the footprint of the structure or the patio or within the driveway but the majority of the trees that are coming out and I just going to point out my quick thank you for the size um just on my list of trees that I was concerned about are two the 10in cedar a 10in Black Oak two 11 and 1 12 inch these are all dbh uh two 12 and 1/2 inch Oaks a 13inch Oak and two 16in Oaks these are really large mature native oak trees that appear to be coming out because it's being regraded and not because they're in like I'm looking at tree number 33 31 32 39 2 34 39 is a 16 and 1 12 inch black oak um 22 so is I help me understand the the is this more grading than normally happens um that so many trees have to come out to to do the grading work for that's more of a question for the civil engineer in the I'm looking I'm looking at him um yeah I'm sorry I see you looking at them yeah I wouldn't say this is more grading than typically it occurs on construction on a vacant lot um maybe it's just more large mature trees are coming out to enable the grading is what's because it's a vacant lot yeah there's and there's a lot of um large trees um you mentioned number 33 that's right on the edge of the driveway um we have four almost six feet of fill right there um so there's no avoiding taking that one out um number 39 that's down at right at the edge of the filling um we could probably tighten up the grading there and and keep that one um it it also may be feasible in some cases where we can um utilize uh like a short retaining well for like a tree well but tree Wells are really not effective unless they um unless they're really able to get out closer to the drift line you know a tree well a few feet away from the trunk of a tree really doesn't do it any good so that's something to consider as well that you know even though sometimes we can do that it it really needs to be able to protect a large area of the root system would a a tree well is an excavation isn't it around the the base of the trunk or retaining not necessarily or retaining above elevated above ground so if it's at its current height of elevation at the root flare then you can build something at that same height that goes up further away that would retain things in the back I just we've have seen many examples of trees that have been preserved on sites that are being deved Vel now not as many as this and to what the point that you're all making because this is an undeveloped lot so it has a lot more large trees but um some of these are pretty significant trees and I'm wondering whether something can be done to protect them especially those those large mature black Oaks well I happen to think that that number 40 that cedar is is an exceptionally beautiful tree yeah can I just add Drive yeah I know you can't do anything it's in the the tree tree wells work pretty good if the if it's not too deep you know but I look it just fascinates me you know I I see these lots and conservation Foundation could have bought it town could have bought it um and here we are so you know it's bought sold needs a house on it um you know we try to say what we can but um but I think on the edges where the gray chain is hardly anything I mean you could use tree Wells as long as the roots aren't buried too deep uh from the tree wells in my opinion thanks we we could look at the tree Wells where when we get in there and and and see what we can save I have no problem trying to save a few of those trees by any means you know that's I understand what you're talking about if we can do a couple Wells great we've got some you know I agree with those Cedar that driveway but I can't put that driveway anywhere else that's my that's and those are the two that I would love to save those two are they're beautiful so but I can't do anything with the driveway that's the only way to get in so um but you know if we can if we can well a couple of these we will over off to this uh I think it's the South Side you know of the property we've got the driveway we shrank the driveway up there's a couple it's too bad that when we shrank the driveway up I was over there this morning the two that we were able to save are dead dead dead dead tree so we didn't really save much so I think we were asking you to shrink the driveway because of the size not I mean it saving trees is also a wonderful thing but right that was not what precipitated our asking that so it is unfortunate that those are dead I know those trees are dead so you know but when we get into the three or four I I the numbers you know 22 we know but like number 29 could 29 have be well sure 31 32 um you know we could look into those and try to say those for sure you know um I I think and I don't want to speak for everybody but uh and people can say if they disagree I think anywhere where you can determine you can save the tree will help yes absolutely um so five 6 8 nine you know that there are so many maybe even one since it's a split rail fence maybe one can be saved you know I don't know about 21 oh one one is listed as coming out because it's within the path yeah so I want to ask about that is this path um is that there's an easement that runs along the side along this property for another adjacent property is that what this path is or is it what is this path the path is we access to the water access to the water for this lot lot y but that tree's been there I guess because nobody's Liv there for some time cuz the tree's been there for some time can't the path go around the tree can you change we we we can move the gate we can move the gate over yeah if we can be a bit creative wherever possible and move things if it saves a tree I mean I'm not a tree hugger but I am I do want to keep as much as we can it's it's a shame to see a lot just flush cut absolutely everything removed and then you start over right you know it also will save the number of trees that you have to put in to mitigate trust me I know I know so there's a win-win on this you won't have to put in as many because you're saving more we can we can definitely move that gate over to you know try to look at number number one there is that number one yeah yeah um and here again as we get into this we're going to we're going to come in and and clear where we can to get the project going the driveway in the the thing we'll leave some of the outskirt trees that are slated to be taken and if we can save them we will um okay but if we could have unfortunately if we could have some we're going to need something that says they're going or they're staying we're going to try we'll move the another thought is we we can have a second work limit so we can establish a an inner work limit that what's absolutely required to get the house under the way the driveway the septic and the pool and and not take out the trees that are in the grading area um and then that will save I think I'd rather Mark trees that are going to stay and then I know then they can come in and do what they have to do okay all right can I and Karen can I just go back to that retaining wall that we were talking about where those other trees are sure I don't have any problem turning that into the building right at that corner and having a a set of stairs coming down if we and I don't know if that's an issue I don't think it's going to be an issue so that's going to you know that'll leave us some of those those that'll leave those trees over there that we don't have to four five and six and I can move that well I mean that drainage um over I I can put that somewhere else even better yeah going to have to go but I think what we kind of want is for you to look at this as what can be saved Y and adjust the plan to save as much as possible M I think you know we're maybe going to be able to save five or six trees but five or six trees is five or six trees right that's 10 less you have to plant good up to 10 maybe you know but yeah so I think we'll um you know I think we understand what you're talking about thank you Jan anything else does any well I wanted to I was going to move from here to the mitigation plan but I want to make sure everybody's asked about the trees I just had a I just had a quick question so when it when it comes down to identifying the trees that have to be saved would you put like an orange plastic construction fence around these yeah we'll do that construction for sure okay yep to protect them we're going to do that we're saving the black cherry out front so we'll we'll we'll we'll secure those from construction vehicles good enough thank you yep okay go ahead okay um so I wanted to move from there because um as as Karen noted if we the fewer trees coming out the fewer trees going in and I wanted to ask Jen because we didn't really talk about this much at um at the last hearing but um I went back to the to the site and had a look at the um let see if this works if I can get it up yeah here it is at the mitigation area now we don't have a a a Land Management plan so there's nothing in the record other than what you said at the last hearing about the current condition of the mitigation area but I took this picture standing right you can see from the stake there at the beginning of the driveway way looking Southwest over the mitigation area it is incredibly densely vegetated now I know you said that there's a fair amount or a lot of shrub Honeysuckle and Border privet in there can you estimate for us even though I know it's hard because written it's almost impossible to get in there what the percentage of invasive is that is in there I would say it's um it's a solid 80% there may be it may be a little bit more intact once we get further in there but uh like you said it's extremely dense and hard to get in um and from the the pery edges everything that I could see I think I might have saw um two viburnum kind of poking up in certain places and you could tell because of the leaf and the opposite um the opposite pattern of the leaves um if I mean if that changes because what we would what we would be doing was we would be starting from those edges and working our way in and everything that was invasive would be cut and then removed so that we could kind of get a little further and a little further if for some reason that drastically changed um that would be a conversation that we could have but I do not anticipate it changing um it's very very rare um when we see an area such as this um I would say it's very rare that there is anything else um up until the point where it really does change to a BBW um often just because of the the soil changes then we will see a different plant Community um which is why they're delineated that way um so my guess is that there is really hardly anything else in there and I would say um solidly it's 80% invasive uh probably more um now that we're getting a little bit more towards the end of the season um I could try to get in there but I'd probably have to cut a path through it so the reason I'm I'm I'm asking about this there there are trees in there as well um is it the plan to retain the the existing trees and any native vegetation so that the removal of the uh invasive vegetation would be done carefully so it's not going to be you know mechanized clearing y absolutely okay so I know you can do that but it seems to me this this area is roughly 7,300 Square ft so that's a little less than a quarter acre and what you're proposing is to install 25 trees and more than 100 shrubs in an area that's yeah dense so it it makes me think that the only way to to get all of those plants in there is to take pretty much everything out and even then in an area that's only whatever 70 by 100ish um you know 100 plus shrubs and 25 trees feels like a lot of of you know it's I feel strange saying this because we're usually complaining that it's not densely planted enough but I'm concerned you telling me to remove I'm concerned that this is going to be overly jammed with plants that will be unable to thrive because it's there's too many in there and the existing natives will be threatened so how I'm just looking for the right balance in this I think that area is right it's bordering the BBW and the stream that's the perfect area for mitigation no question with that I just don't want to see something that's driven by the math of our regulations Doom something that um could be really good danet you are speaking in common sense can you go talk to some other commissions that'd be amazing um um so I do I do really honestly I do believe that it is 80 to 90% invasive in there I I don't think that there that we will find many Natives and the natives that we find um I think will be um we'll call it less than robust however um I'm happy to take another look at the plan just to make sure um that the sizes that we've drawn for the mitigation plants um are more mature sizes um and the other thing that we can do like I said I have to go back and make sure that I know exactly what's in that Circle for you anyway I can cut into um that area a little bit and see if I can get you know 10 20 feet further to therefore see in a little bit further just to double check that um the other thing that we can do is uh it would be uh I guess you'd have to be okay with this on a certificate of compliance but if we are demarcating the edge of the mitigation area with uh with the split rail fence if we did find that there was um I maybe a big swath of bab Berry somewhere in there or something um and we and then we basically um use those shrubs and we could plant them you know further out into more the meadow areas um we we could do that but they wouldn't be quote unquote within your mitigation area so that would be something that we would need to work with you on for compliance just to make sure that that was a clear expectation um so I can kind of approach it a couple different ways um you'll notice though that did leave the areas under where we are putting in the the tree Groves we did leave those areas free of um of shrub under plantings at least in the immediate vicinity of where we're putting those trees in so I'll take as as you know as much of a detailed look at it as you want me to look okay I I totally appreciate that and um maybe saving some of the the other trees on the site will help this exercise size so that we don't have to try to put quite so many in um but just getting a sense a realistic sense of what's going to do well there and Thrive there in this area is what I was looking for okay sure yeah I think I think our plant list is um is pretty solid um like I said Dylan and I will have to go back and just double check some things in that Circle to make sure anyway so we'll bring um we'll bring a hand pruners and a loers with and see if we can find the path of Le resistance and get in there a little further but I I suspect that I will report the same thing back to you in two weeks at least in terms of the invasive versus native but um but I'll check okay thank you very much that's it for me yep Elise um I think we need a lighting plan yes we talked about that um in our meeting yesterday so um if someone could put one of those together and add it to the package that would be terrific anything else that's it I just wanted to add that I I went back into that area that Janna was talking about after the last meeting because I was curious and there's there's not much in there that's salable as far as indigenous plants there's a few things that went that are up higher than the invasives so they have like a little canopy and but everything under them you know obviously they didn't get sun so it's dead so yeah I would say it's a good like I said 80% anyway um that's it thanks all right so now I let everybody else go and they've brought up most of what I my concerns um one of the things whatever we're putting say between the meadow and the mitigation please note on the plan that what it is because like right now the plan has the little you know the site plan and everything have the little dashed line along the driveway but it nowhere did it say that was the split rail fence I made an assumption but it it would be good to have that on the plan um what else uh of as Elise said we need the lighting plan we also need um a formal variance request as you know a letter so it's in our just yeah so it's just a letter saying we're asking for a variance a variance yes and now we go to my favorite subject The Pool and Patio and I know you cut it back I'm not sure what the size of the the dimensions of the pool was before you cut it back because on the previous plan it didn't have a size to it but we have a lot of patio and we have a nice size pool if we cut some of the patio going sort of toward where I've asked if you can remove some of the retaining wall um I think we could save some more trees and if you move the tree the patio and pool back even a little further I think you could probably save at least tree number three um it I just you have you have to go ahead we really we're at 10 ft on one side and 12 12et on the it's not much of a patio it's this we we Dro that pool down to 16 ft wide it's not a very wide pool you know before on that pool if you measured that out that was 20 ft wide um so we've we've tried to reduce but I the Pat and we're taking away anything we've got trees we're trying to save trees everywhere there's no place to be you got to be outside so if we we've reduced the size of that pool as much as we think we to make it workable and we need to be able to have a chair out there so you can walk around around the chair right so it's kind of okay tough that we tried to get it as small as we could okay and it's not a cover so you don't need a fence nope no fence you know I I do appreciate that you cut it back I just was kind of going for the pie in the sky okay so to speak um you know have to try let me put it that way um what else did I have there that hasn't been covered um previously it had been noted in front of the house you were going to have irrigation is that correct yeah just well we're going to do above ground irrigation to keep everything alive so we have to do that temporary above ground irrigation for the 3 years we would put a um a trickle system in just for the plantings on the front yard to keep the plants in the front alive if we can you know I'm thinking basically we're not going to put anything in your River area we're just going to use put it in within the river area and the 100 foot on the backside which is basically the very front of that house will have a trickle system then we're going to use the Black Beauty which is pretty drought Hardy so that's that's our thoughts there so it's not we're not going to have we're going to have above ground in the beginning well that will eventually get removed and uh but in the very front we just do some trickle system for shrubs we I just wanted to make sure that that was correct y uh I don't think I have anything else go ahead Janet you reminded me of something that I had written down and then forgotten about we is there a landscape plan going to be you have that that was part of the package do we have that the Acer y isn't that the land Acer is the landscape plant here okay so that was submitted for the last hearing that has not changed correct no it has changed we changed it with the wall okay all right thank you now I have it here removing the retaining walls and putting the fence in and oh this was the other one that was labeled that way I didn't see it okay okay got it it does have the that's where the label for the split rail along the fence uh driveway shows up is it is on that that plan okay any anybody have anything else yeah I just want I just want to add personally from being in the landscape business for a long time too long um you know I can understand where you you have to have you know immediately around the foundation small little area lawn area you know to have some type of irrigation um rather than dragging ho hoses around the house um I could I I can see that thanks I got a quick question Karen go ahead uh Jen the uh when we talk about the split rail fence again I hate to keep going back to the fence but just a just a single rail uh fence would be sufficient um I mean a single rail fence is a good indicator um you know two rails is more visible um I guess it depends on how um assertive you want to be with that line um the meadow being in front of it um I mean clearly Meadows are easier to mow but at the same time there's uh there's steel edging you know separating lawn areas from Meadow areas um I'm just thinking that the two might be more of an obstruction or a wall so you won't be able to see the mitigation uh you know flowering the plants flowering and so forth so if it's a single rail you I mean you might run into it if you're walking through there trip um but uh that's more of a discussion I think for you and Tim um to me it doesn't make any difference we'll put offens in in whatever manner um manner you and Tim c fit Bob we did that single rail fence over there at Capri when we did it I thought that looked nice it definitely determines it yeah um and as you say if we're going to put in you know some of the uh you know the milked in there that's flour and so people you know would' like to see it if possible and that'll keep it a single reel would be better nicer looking and uh yeah and it's not you know it's you know up foot 16 18 in or so but right that's what we did at and I thought it delineated it and seemed to work and it'll keep people out of there right and to Janet's point there there are um quite a few large shrubs that will be going on along the edge of that mitigation area as well so once they have a chance to uh grow into themselves a bit um it should be they should be fairly yeah they should be a fairly uh um solid Edge yeah so to speak I think s yeah okay but can I just ask you one more question Bob on this on this fencing that we're going to do we have that fence that's running up and around the driveway you and you were talking about you wanted it somewhere else do Jen do you know where he was talking about putting that as well just just along the mitigation line okay between the meadow and mitigation okay the I I know where he's talking about him I can I can mark it on a plan for you that's not a problem thank you do you want to pull the one away from the driveway for the metal or you want that one there as well no it's not necessary to have uh anything there okay so put it back where the meadow and the mitigation meet exactly okay thank you okay all right thank you for the clarification quick question um I know this is a quality of life thing for me I'm just curious if I've missed it is there a rinse station on this plan total quality of life but I'm just curious if you're thinking about putting one of those yes um since we don't call them outdoor showers anymore right we'd like to put it over there but out of out of the jurisdiction of the we're going to put it at back by the garage door all right the mechanical systems are I was wondering if that was the spot okay great thank you since it's not in your jurisdiction we can call it a shower now yeah it's outside our jurisdiction go for it right um anybody else all right so you have a few things to work on yeah the circle needs more detail um maybe you're adding some milke weed you said something about putting a seconds looking at saving the trees we need a lighting plan um moving the fencing the areas of temporary irrigation versus the areas that they want permanent immediately around the I think where there will be permanent intergation should be noted does that work for you oh yeah you also mentioned the variance request letter y y I hadn't gotten they were still talking so I thought I wasn't going to go ahead so you know obviously next week is kind of tight um so the next me after that's the 23rd I believe um it is yes the 23rd okay so we can certainly be ready for that one um is any chance that you could take a crack at an order of conditions at the same time in that same time period I I think that's be tough okay there's a lot of changes we don't even have a lighting plan yet um I mean we can start it but I I won't say that it would be ready for a vote yeah I didn't but if we start it potentially if we're ready it would be the next meeting which is the following week so okay so or well no it wouldn't be the following week because the 30th we're off because it's we have an extra Wednesday so it would be two weeks later so it'll be we're into December no no November no November first meeting in November November to for them to vote on the order of conditions okay and what's the after that how long's the order of conditions another 3 weeks after that or no they get no you can ask to have it available quickly we've had Crystal Rush them we got to do what we got to do yeah so the the way they do it now is they draft it and it's pretty much done and they vote on it so it's not yep great and one last thing don't forget on your plan the areas that are temporary in the areas that you wish to have permanent irrigation okay we can do that yeah and as I say it's just going to be pretty much that DP Foundation drip stuff right around the foundation in that in not in near dist not in the river or the hundreds so make that can't be in our area no no that takes care of most of your spot um Katherine has her hand up so go ahead Katherine uh yes just a matter of that variance request letter so it's not just a letter with a couple couple sentences and and Crystal and I are working on a a sample and we'll send one out once we have it ready but there is more to just uh to the variance request L than just a couple sentences but we'll get a sample out okay I mean everything's in the narrative so I can just cut and paste it out of there it's you've already been presented with the information so all right then I believe we're ready for a motion I move that we continue parcel h13 Captain n's way to October 23rd 24 second Cheryl I Paul I Janet I Elise I Eric I Bob I and I say I okay we'll see the 23rd thank you thank you all right Catherine next thing okay notice of intent at 500 actually that got taken off the agenda oh you're right I apologize not on this one okay I didn't have the update that's okay uh request for certificate of complain Alliance at 86 Harbor View Road map 8A parcel H3 for an jennis D SE number 10- 3423 raise and replace an existing single family dwelling okay um I think Jen you there y Jen's there all right Stephanie go ahead Stephanie you had your hand raised hi good afternoon Stephanie sequel with rer and Willcox and um the just one thing that I wanted to point out I I think we're all set with the um complying with all the conditions um and I did include the list of ongoing conditions that were in the uh the original order I just wanted to make sure that you saw on uh condition number 10 regarding the uh creation of the mitigation area um the applicant wanted to include notation and and I've got it written in there that plants in the vegetated buffer strip and on the Coastal Bank that are within then the designated view card or maybe pruned to 3 to 4 feet in height in order to maintain a view of the water it just wasn't clear in the um in the order that um you know there is the approval of this View Corridor uh okay um I'm yeah I right now I'm trying to find I didn't don't even see where there were ongoing requests but maybe I just didn't print everything so I'm just trying to find it um and so we did not I'm not seeing that we originally approved a view corridor so that's where I'm struggling right now and trying to find something that says we did oh yes I do see special condition um so on the first uh special well special condition three which is listed in as the first one on the ongoing uh it talks about establishing the legs of the view caror and uh setting permanent markers which we've done okay uh but it it doesn't say anything about you know what they're allowed to do in The View Corridor and maybe this would this would be the more appropriate place to insert that language yeah do you have a do do you have a picture of the view cord or marked I no uh I did include a photo of uh the we set um iron pipe with yellow caps and then uh the geness is Set uh Stone uh right next to the pipe to make it a little more visible right um maybe I can help uh I'm Mark janess uh Mark and an janess the owners and I'm happy to answer any questions to help out um okay the uh yeah the order of conditions uh provided for Vista pruning uh from the East End which would be the boundary marker to a pine tree uh which is on the western Western marker and um so there are now metal pipes that go permanent markers along with stone markers that so they're visible you can see where they are I mean you can see because the tree is the pine tree is like 20 feet tall as it is it's not going to go anywhere um and so the the purpose uh the original or of conditions did allow us to to prune but we just wanted to make sure that it was beyond the mitigation Zone because it doesn't do any good to just prune within the mitigation Zone if the the the trees behind it block The View and you know obviously this is a a house that overlooks net sound and the view is everything so we're just trying to keep the the intent which was to be able to prune um so what you're asking is to be able to prune behind the mitigation not the mitigation so was this I'm struggling because I don't know that this was a part of the original order asking to be able to prune that area I think it was I think it was kind of ambiguous to be honest um I think it should have been a little clearer when it was when it was yeah I'm I'm just concerned about giving you cart blanch to do it when that actually wasn't part of what we originally approved um you again it wouldn't make any sense to prune within the mitigation Zone if you can't see the The View that doesn't make any so why we thought we were just doing this consistent with what the intent was right but when it's not part of the original order we what we're voting on is giving you a certificate of compliance for the order that was before us and the work that you did for that order if that area wasn't a part of the original order were were essentially skipping and allowing you to do something you never actually applied to be able to do again I think it was uh I think it could have been clear a clearer when it was originally done I wish we had focused on that at the time um we were focusing on a lot of things and getting the the place built you know three years ago but um yeah I I mean otherwise again how do we it it doesn't do any good you understand what I'm saying I totally get it I'm trying to make sure we stay within the intent of the order can I read I'm just I think I think I just found it too Stephanie there I'm looking at a draft of the order that project description included prune plants in the vegetated buffer strip within a designated View Corridor to 3 to 4 feet in height for a view of the water yeah I'm I'm reading uh under the findings number six The Proposal includes a VI Carter that protects continuity of the vegetated buffer strip and prever preserves The View by maintaining the height of the vegetation in the vegetated buffer strip uh the proposal uses an existing pine tree and the property line to demarcate the eastern and western edges of the view card or the commiss well commission would like more permanent demarcation of the legs of the corridor um so that's where it was um I thought somewhere it's also in it's also a special condition so this is the one that's really important because it's actually the condition and it's a continuing condition the locations of the quote legs of the view corridor shall be discussed with the conservation agent at the preconstruction meeting the engineer or land surveyor will also be present to verify the location of the view corridor in the field once verified in the field concrete bounds or another type of permanent structure shall be be placed on the ground to demarcate the eastern and western leg of the view corridor this shall be an ongoing condition on the certificate of compliance right so it sounds like he did that so it sounds like you did do it okay I just you know it sounded like you were asking for something that wasn't within our original intent no I didn't have the I I don't have the order in front of me so thank you Janet yeah I I find this pretty unusual for so it's complete from east to west uh because you know in history you know it's to allow you know certain windows but leave a little something for the imagination but this is a complete east to west um uh view which is I I think you know I have nothing wrong with views but this is very generous and and three two four feet is very also very generous usually you know you're trimming at a minimum of 4 feet uh because usually you're sitting either on a patio or in your kitchen you're you're up high so you know 4T is is really I always thought would be the minimum thanks but well again we're just trying to keep what was in the original order conditions I I it is there but Stephanie is it it's I'm looking at the as belt and the view cardor is not denoted on the asil is it denoted or listed on any plan of record it is on the mitigation plan okay that I don't know I have it you oh there she's no if that was the deal the wow okay we did do that oh yeah look at the big view we were when did we do this must have had your tea week that morning it was early Co I don't know it was early oh maybe I wasn't on the Commission in I am getting off of this one maybe everybody had Co all right it's on the plan okay so I guess we can go to a motion no before that I just want to ask about and this is I think for Jen I'm not sure if she's still online um was so or or maybe Stephanie you can answer the first part an extension request was um a year extension was requested six weeks ago yes um taking it to another to 20 so why yeah why five weeks later are you I'm happy to answer that because we were in the process of getting the final sign offs from Crawford Land Management also from Ryder and Wilcox and it was simply a matter of the summer was very busy and we couldn't get them to get their paperwork done time before that expired there was there was actually some confusion you may remember Commissioners that I think our um our time period may have run into November but there was some timing with respect to covid and and what we were told at the time was out of abundance of cautious let's go ahead and just just get the full extension and I said at the time we won't need a full year we just need a couple months to wrap this up okay I now that you're saying that I remember the other question I had was um this is for a full certificate or a partial uh this is full we're done we've been done for well the mitigation plants were put in in July of 2022 and then replanted new mitigation plants were put in in 20 October 2023 so they still are subject to the three-year survival requirements so I don't think we could sign off on the mitigation yet um we talked about this yesterday oh okay um Paul Katherine and Crystal felt we could since an ongoing condition is that they maintain the mitigation in perpetuity so they've been put in and then there was we had the discussion of what are three seasons and but perpetuity is easy that's yeah that's why we thought because if you said 3 years it's difficult because somebody when they get an order would have to immediately plant the mitigation to meet three years without asking for an extension and so we felt that maybe saying because it's an ongoing condition and they've been planted and we're now a year into it which some some feel is three three seasons okay I'm good I'm good with with a with a a complete uh certificate as long as a mitigation maintenance is an ongoing condition yes that works that's what we had said was that the maintenance of the mitigation would have to be continued in perpetuity okay all right anybody else because we did this is a bit yesterday um okay we're ready for a motion Okie do I move that we approve a full certificate of compliance for 86 Harbor View excuse me Harbor View Road second Cheryl hi Paul hi Janet hi Elise hi Eric hi Bob hi and I say I you're all set thank you very much thank you thank you very thank you for coming thank you thanks Stephanie it it helped having you here so thank you very much you're welcome thank you okay Katherine next one okay would you like me to open the following two which are I I think we can I mean they were pretty much done together so it's yeah okay it's request for certificate of compliance at 85 Capri Lane map 13c parcel 29- C12 for Jane Lenahan D SE number 10- 3558 replace existing bulkhead replace existing inground steps and existing elevated stairs over the bulkhead request for a certificate of compliance at 86 Capri Lane map 13 C parcel C13 for T and John Andre's D SE number 10- 3557 replacement and extension of existing Marine vulit thank you hi Bob hello hi good afternoon Bob Perry uh Cape cot engineering for the applicants and thanks for putting these together they they belong together and the issues are similar we're here for a certificate of compliance uh primarily at this point in time uh because one of the applicants uh has some life-changing circumstances that will be bringing them before you for an order of conditions uh and it's been our understanding that order of conditions or would have to be cleared before another order would be issued that's one factor the other one is that the project is very well along we understand that there's a couple of years of monitoring left for the uh vegetative restoration and mitigation and if you go there and if you see the site it's uh extraordinarily welldeveloped I think the soil o quality was great here we did have a a couple of seasons of Pretty Good moisture and I think the last discussion you just had um relates closely to this where if if a full certification can be provided at this point in time then additional monitoring of those plants and the overall condition of of both sites can be provided in monitoring reports uh for another year or two should you wish so that's where we are the the as built uh is submitted the uh the site photography with our report which tries to make clear what the conditions are today um I thought the project went off very well and and it's in great shape today so that's where I'm at thank you and I think what we would do um is again have a ongoing condition that um this that the mitigation needs to be monitored and taken care of um in perpetuity so does anybody else have any questions Bob I oh go ahead go ahead I just wanted to ask what does that mean ongoing perp uh who who monitors oh yeah right now the plants I mean the project is beautiful the the banking is well established uh I have one quick question that the return on the Far West looks newer than the rest of the the wall you that's a that's a good that's a good observation um there was uh we called the contractor back at that location um because the this relates to the way I like to see these jobs done um there had been a little bit of overwash there and it it had scoured out and he reworked uh the return at that location um so that it it was more stable yeah um the the cap boards could have been reused but they put new ones on yeah looks looks great and that would be the opposite end from the one you're showing that uh the one on the east was was extraordinarily well done and that one there is where um I'm told that there's some animal traffic around that area uh and so there was a bit of erosion and it was about s a couple months ago we sent the contractor back over there just to take a look at what they had done with the with the sheeting yeah thank you looks beautiful Bob uh Bob the um there was some bitter Suite on the bank uh I think along 85 I believe uh we were concerned about is that still there is it getting involved with any of the plantings very little uh I know one of the points at the time we proposed the project was that the work effort provided an opportunity to pull a lot of that out I I would be wrong to tell you there isn't any left but it's the applicants I think ongoing obligation to to make efforts to continue to pull that if if that's what the commission would like I think it's worth uh them doing that um it's a harder prospect on the 86 I think 86 is a very well vegetated Coastal Bank it has already undergone a remedial invasives uh proposal and work effort prior to this job and I I don't know how practical it is that that folks along these Waterway banks are going to keep all the invasives at Bay but as long as they're aware of it yeah and that they are giv licensed to go in there and you know hand workk to pull Vines out I think that's a very beneficial allowance like like the knock We Buy in your house and uh and then along 86 there was some cherries uh cherry trees that were kind of falling down or something they are cleared out completely um because they were laying down over the salt marsh and the if you've been over there the the improved light uh from the uh shading uh reduction or the reduction in shade is really having a a great effect on the salt marsh it's really coming in well good yeah I'd like to see them continue on that Bittersweet removal um in 85 anyway they can thank you I think we could put that in as an ongoing condition as well that they maintain the um invasive management of the bitter suweet and anything else they find other than that anybody have any questions comments okay I think we can have a motion okay I move that we approve the certificates of compliance for 85 Capri Lane and 86 capre Lane second okay Cheryl hi Paul hi Janet hi Elise I Eric I Bob I and I say I you're all set Bob thank you very much and I say bye and thank you very much okay see you soon bye yep Catherine any unforeseen items there are no unforeseen items at this time does anybody else have anything they want to bring up I'll second that okay we need a motion I move we adjourn the meeting second Cheryl I Paul hi Janet I Eric I Bob I and I say I we're done thank you everyone e for