##VIDEO ID:RJQUw0v4u5Q## e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon this is a hearing of the child Conservation Commission being held on August 14th 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of chadam protect Wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my name is Karen Latin it's not oh what's today oh seventh sorry why I'm ahead of myself it's August 7th um I my name is Karen Latin and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on Xfinity channel 18 and is being recorded on the on demand archives available on the town's website it is being conducted in person by phone and by video conference the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review are posted on the town's website to all participants whether attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you've been recognized by the chair when recognized please identify yourself for the record if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute using star six if you're online and you are not a commissioner please keep your camera off unless you have been recognized indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature so that we have a record of a quorum I will now ask each commissioner to indicate their presence Vice chair Elise Gordon is not here Janet Williams is not here Cheryl missery here Eric Hilbert here we have a new member Paul Johnson here and Associate member Bob dveo present and I am here we have established we have a quorum before we begin the agenda are there any announcements about any requests for continuances today Paul Whitman thank you madam chair good afternoon Commissioners welcome commissioner Johnson um yes we have uh on the agenda three continuances the first one is for a field change request at 227 Vineyard Avenue that'll be continued to August 14th the next two are uh notice of intense 177 Countryside drive and 98 oyster Pond furling will be continued to August four uh excuse me 177 Country will be continued to August 14th 98 oyster Pond furong will be continued to October oober 16th 2024 and there's still two people up unverified that are don't have their cameras off so if you could turn them off Frank and unverified uh that would be great until you're recognized thank you all right Madam chair thank you thank you at this point Paul Whitman chams conservation agent will now lead us through the agenda thank you madam chair uh first on the agenda is a request for a certificate compliance from the town of chadam the uh address address is 613 stage Harbor Road Town of chadam map 13A parcel 2-24 D number se10 3606 uh this was a project for sh access stairs I think Ted may be online for this he's right here there oh he's he always goes down he's so good um anyway uh I'll turn it over to Ted it's a simple project um the application's complete they actually filed a uh existing uh conditions plan uh for it and everything else in the application is complete uh simple straightforward project um I took a visit and uh looks um like it's in compliance great thank you hi Ted you're welcome good afternoon Ted Kon Coast resource director Paul gave a very brief and accurate uh summary this is a sh access stairs that we had actually gotten a uh preservation act um Grant so to speak for this uh to provide recreational access to probably one of the more popular uh shellfish uh climbing areas in in stage Harbor um the previous stairs were kind of a homemade I wouldn't even call them stairs they were sort of like a uh wet wooden slide to go down because they were miserable but anyway we um completed this near the beginning of the Season contractor came in knocked it out frankly within a week and they've been very popular and they will be extremely uh valuable to the local citizenry you know as the season really gears up in the late season and early fall um I really don't have much more to say it was a nice job and very popular great thank you I have been by them many a time and they do look amazing I even went out and walked on them just to say oh these are much better so thank you so much to say the least all right we are ready for a motion I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 6113 stage Harbor Road I second it okay uh Paul you can approve i i i Cheryl I Eric I and I say I thank you Ted thank you thank you Ted all right the next uh thank you madam chair now we're going to move on to uh requested order of conditions first on the agenda is 43 Edgewater Drive H garrey Molton Jr map 15 A1 parcel h125 D number se10 3684 construction of a 31 square foot addition and installation of utilities and a generator that with the project okay is there anybody here for Edgewater great yes Jeff Molton here Hi how are you good how you doing have you had time to look at the order I have not but I I anticipate what what's likely to be in it okay um I just wanted to see if you had anything uh do any Commissioners have anything that they would like to modify with 43 edge water all right then we'll be ready for a vote okay all right I move that we approve the order of conditions as revised for 43 Edgewater Drive I second it Paul obain I Eric I and I say I okay thank you very much I do want to thank the commission our at our first uh hearing I'm not sure which member was made a suggested change in the mitigation plan it was a it was a much it was an upgrade from what we initially proposed so thank you for that I appreciate it great thank you so much all right Paul the next one the next uh requested order of conditions is for 26 Salt Pond Road the applican is 26 Salon Road limited liability company map 17j parcel 9-1 the number SC10 3675 the project is extension of an existing Stone revetment okay is there anybody here for 26 salt Pine uh yes Madam chair PA Perry um reaching in by teams and I have reviewed the order of conditions thank you very much for sending it I wrote back earlier today stating that we had no comments so I'll I'll let the commission sort that out thank you okay perfect do any Commissioners have anything they'd like to modify to this one no no all right well this is going well I guess we're ready for a motion I move that we approve the order of condition I put your name in excuse me crystal is that you shall we do it again uh I don't know Crystal did you want to say something no that wasn't me oh okay great then we can go to a motion I move that we approve the order of conditions for 26 salt Pawn Road I second it Paul abstain Cheryl I Eric I and I say I all right Paul we're ready for the next one okay next one on the list is 61 elephants I'm never going to get this pronounced right but just bear with me maybe before I end my career uh lane 61 elephants LLC map 16c parcel 36-14 D number se10 3686 the project is replacement of an existing concrete wall with a vertical sheet wall all right Bob uh once more Cape Cod engineering and uh again I I want to thanks for sending along that draft we have reviewed it I have no comments so thank you very much it's a a another smooth project that was uh well reviewed thanks great thank you uh any Commissioners have anything to add or change no okay then we're ready for a motion I move that we approve the order of conditions for 61 Al Lane I second Paul abstain Cheryl I Eric I and I say I all right we're on to the next one Paul next one on the list Madam chair is 509 Riverview Drive Scott Barrett and Kimberly summers are the applicants map 7j parcel C60 D number se10 3687 the project is construction of access stairs over Coastal Bank okay is there a representative for 509 I guess oh there is hey hi do you have anything I have nothing to say boy I am loving this do any Commissioners have anything to add no or change no okay then we are ready for a motion I move that we approve approve the order of conditions for 509 Riverview Drive I second Paul abstain Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay Paul Ray for the next one next on the list Madam chair is 162 Shaw Road the applicant is Tom and Michelle Jennings map 16d parcel 15-29 D number se10 3650 the project is removal of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling located outside the AO AA relocation of an existing accessory building construction of an inground swimming pool and hardscaping abandonment of an existing septic system and installation of a new IIA septic system and restoration of existing wwn with native plant species that's the project okay do we have okay I see Stephanie hi good afternoon Stephanie SE with ring will Cox boy I'm really sorry to say this I do have a couple little comments um you you're going along so well uh under the findings number one it says the project will result in no change in the 0o to 50ft Aura we're actually um reducing by uh 850 Square fet which is eliminating everything within the 5050 so okay so it should be decreased by 850 ft okay will result in 850t reduction in the Z to 50 okay okay and then um in the general conditions um on page 110 number 11 and 12 refer to no Coastal Engineering structure in the future and there's already a revetment here but in the future that means you can't put something else in it's not that we it's these are first of all the general conditions are meant they actually say as it pertains to the project but you're already doing the revetment that's this project oh no wait a minute sorry I'm on the wrong one okay so you want 11 and 12 why do you want those taken out well because there already is a revetment but it says no future no future okay okay so then that was it all right great so we'll modify the findings number one and then we'll be all set correct okay yes all right then we're ready for a motion I move that we approve the order of conditions as revised for 162 to Shore Road second I second it Paul abstain Cheryl I Eric I and I say I thank you very much thank you okay Paul the next one next one is uh 28 excuse me 289 cine Road 289 cine Road nominee trust is the applicant map 12K parcel 11 c21 D number se10 3685 the project is proposed removal and reconstruction of a single family and Associate dwelling and Associated improvements good afternoon for the records Sean Riley with tyan Bond hi Sean I to just have a have a few comments uh for clarification um on page eight the eth page uh which is designated 11h yeah uh there is an annual survey of the coastal Beach area shall be conducted by a mass registered engineer we don't have any active uh erosion on this project and we're not proposing any um nourishment or um any remediation for that and this comment or this condition typically um coincides with with that type of project to monitor the erosion so I'm not quite sure that this one um is related to this project but you could have erosion in the future correct are you saying that you don't feel it's as a a result of this project yeah I think it was a condition that was added that maybe carried over from a different project uh can you see the screen uh we're we're well uh away and we have um existing beach grass right um Beach between Beach and Beach Grass between uh mean high water and the tow of the Coastal Bank there's no signs of any erosion okay um we're essentially just doing restoration and mitigation within the Coastal Bank all right I don't think you're going to see anything different if we did do a um an how about if we changed it to be photos so that we see that no erosion has taken place just to be safe yeah and we could we can include those photos within our we're required to do annual monitoring reports uh for for the uh restoration work so we can do that yes okay so we'll modify it to say that great uh anything else and yes so it mentions on page just get down to it uh there's it pring and we don't have Vista pruning as part of this project where what page is this on page this is Page 11n okay under the Project Specific conditions yep it discusses uh view corridors and um staking them out and reviewing them before the work is done uh there are no view corridors proposed as part of this application so I think that whole section could come out and then the same with the next e which is on 11 o um the installation of access stairs uh that relates to above ground Timber stairs where we have uh essentially just a replacement of the inet Timber steps uh with granite so again I don't think those two sections um apply to this that's proposal yeah okay uh I agree and we'll get those out I'm sorry they didn't catch that and I didn't catch it that's all right so no worries thank you for letting us review it and that's all we had anything from Commissioners all right rised yeah I move that we approve the order of conditions as revised for 289 cine Road I second it Paul abstain Sheryl I Eric I and I say I all right thank you thank you okay Paul next thing uh thank you madam chair now we're going to move on to a extension request um the address is 80 Bridge Street am meny and Suns Inc and the applicants map 14 a parcel 3-10 D number SC10 3497 the project is proposed bulkhead repairs the extension is being requested due to uh the construction beginning in July of 2024 the order expires uh in 8816 2024 so we'll be extending to 816 2025 all right any questions or comments from Commissioners all right then we are ready for a motion I move that we approve a one-year extension to August 16th 2025 for 80 Bridge Street I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay next uh thank you madam chair next on the agenda is a submitted field change request uh this has been on the agenda a couple of times uh 227 Vineyard Avenue uh in azanero map 11c parcel d131 D number SC10 3471 the project was garage Edition invasive species control this was an after the fact field change request for an extension excuse me uh for an existing low native New England Fieldstone wall for stabilization uh of a garage foundation and to protect from erosion caused by wind extreme high tides and storm water runoff brief explanation I said this a couple times but for Paul and the new commissioner um this uh is being reviewed by The Building Commissioner because there are soil Conservancy District issues which are not under the commission's control until that issue is resolved with the owner and the applicant uh and uh the building inspector and I think that will probably be soon uh I'd recommend continuing to the 14th so I approved uh in the field a small extension to the uh Fieldstone wall but apparently there was fill placed inside the wall which is in violation of the so Conservancy District uh bylaw and that's under the jurisdiction of the billing commission so we can continue this to April 14th that would be my recommendation okay H excuse me August 14th not all right all right then we are ready for a motion is August 14th good for you yes yes yeah okay yes um I move that we continue 227 Vineyard Avenue to the meeting on August 14th 2024 for a field change request I second it Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I all right the next we're moving right along we are next Sunday well we have a time crunch today good um I'm sure it'll get hung up somewhere yeah um oh I think so yeah the next is a request for determination of applicability the address is 33 and 20 Pine Bluff Road appc Jr finel realy Trust of Harwich map 2A Parcels 6636 and 67-41 and R 24-21 the project is proposed sewage disposal uh Disposal system upgrade to replace an existing septic tank in leech pit that has been located within the 50 to 100 buffer zone um good afternoon again for the record Sean Riley with tyan Bond um the site may look familiar to you we were before you several months ago uh with an RDA to uh remove uh the cottage can everybody see my screen all right yes to remove the cottage uh and repl with a new uh Guest House much further away from the aura uh we're here now the applicant has decided to uh take advantage of the disturbance to replace a septic system that's within the uh 50 to 100 foot buffer uh to a Coastal Bank um and to replace it with a septic tank and pump chamber and leeching facility that is outside of the 100 foot buffer which looks like this uh it should only be three to four days worth of work for them to put the new U septic tank and pump chamber in and to fill an abandoned uh the existing leech pit um and as you can see the uh new soil absorption system is more than 100 ft from the top of Coastal Bank all of the work is on the landward side of the house all the access is from the landward side of the house uh and it's all within area there won't be anyal of but grass and um and walkway to install this so with that I'll open it up to any questions you may have um I have one thing I have that zba approved it on a April 4th 2024 is that correct or is that for that other part that's for the other part that's what I thought exactly that was under a roow and you have to see have you gotten approval from Health yet uh we have not uh received approval from Health yet uh it's it doesn't require any variances so it's a typical um disposal works construction permit we don't see any issues with this as are making it conforming yep okay uh Commissioners do you have any questions Bob hi Sean how are you I'm good thank you um I went out there uh I think it was Monday and I didn't see any Stakes nothing was staked out because it's under the the garage actually in the shed that's being removed yeah I actually met the met the owner when I was there and I made that comment MH it's actually going where the shed and garage physically are right now so that's why you can't find Stakes it's a perfect area it's already Disturbed so they have not yet removed that that first part that they came before us for right okay yeah I because I had the very same question I said where are your Stakes yeah okay anything else no I think that's it thank you three all right then we I guess are ready for a a motion I move that we approve 33 and 20 Pine Bluff Road request for determination of applicability with a negative3 determination I second it Paul through through the chair just uh procedurally it looks like there is a hand in the oh I'm sorry oh yes uh Joan yes hello hi I'm I'm so sorry um it's Joan Moore I live um next door the abiding property and um I apologize um we can't hear you now that you turned away from the probably the microphone can you hear me now yes um I'm the uh a butter uh two Wadsworth um so I was just trying and I apologize I didn't have a chance to look over the plans ahead of time but um as you can see you know you can see the house right outside my window but there's um I was trying to get an idea of where the septic is in relation to our home but now I I hear that you say it was in the where the old uh barn or garage is going to be torn down correct that's okay that's correct okay that's what I wanted to know um and when would that work start if the yeah they they've applied for the building permit for uh the raise and replace of those two Cottages I would imagine that the septic the septic work for this permit uh would not happen until um later on in the project uh towards the end of the project typically the septics system is installed uh near the end um and then they clean up and and work their way out so I would imagine this part of the project uh wouldn't happen uh toward till the end of the project as far as the other project um if they haven't haven't started already um I would imagine that's going to start um probably I think there might be a restriction uh from the zoning board so that project most likely won't start until after Labor Day um that's typical of of zoning board to uh to issue a a time constraint right right I hope there's a little time lapse it's been you know a lot of construction for over a year now thank you anything else no okay did we have a second I seconded Paul hi Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay thank you thank you okay Paul we're ready for the next okay Madam chair we're going to move on now to uh submitted notice of intent applications the first one on the agenda is going to be continued uh it is 177 Countryside Drive Robert P and Natalie Coleman Das Fuller are the applicants map 61 parcel n14 D number se10 3694 the project is construction uh of additions renovation a farmer porch and Second Story expansion to a single family dwelling work with it uh which will occur within 100t of a Coastal Bank on monomo river with a Riverfront area and within the Pleasant Bay AC and the applicants requested a continuance to uh the next meeting on August 14th uh for the uh additional submission of materials that we requested that did not come in time okay thank you do we have a motion I move that we continue 177 Countryside drive to the meeting on August 14th I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay thank you um Paul we're ready for the next okay next on the agenda is another notice of intent this one will be continued as well 98 oyster Pon furong applicant Steven and Haley g n uh nadas or nus map 13e parcel 29-11 a the number SC10 3682 the project is construction of a Shore access catwalk and the applicants requested a continuance to October 16th 2024 okay we need a motion please I move that we continue 98 oyston furong to the meeting on October 16 2024 for a notice of intent I second Paul I charl hi Eric hi and I say I okay next one Paul okay I think this is where things will um yeah I know about to pick up a little bit Yeah so next on the agenda is a notice of inent application for 500 Shore Road Heather Butler is the applicant map 16g parcel 3 d-85 D number SC10 3681 construction of beak beach access stairs within a pedestrian access easement located at 500 Shore Road that is the project how are you doing well thank you good afternoon commission members my name is TJ hurry I'm an attorney from Cene Associates uh together with Don Bracken who's the project engineer and uh one of our clients Heather Butler is with us on the crowd uh this afternoon uh we've been before the commission a couple of times uh last about a month and a half ago we received some input uh with uh some revi revisions to the plan namely Beach Grass underneath the proposed stairwell uh as well as a couple of other revisions that we uh worked into the plan uh that we hope that the commission looks favorably upon um so to go over those revisions themselves I can turn it over to Don and I'm available for any other additional questions that you may have okay thank you yes thank you Don Bracken uh we added an 010 specifying a beach grass mix for any Disturbed areas uh this mix is basically the same mix that was approved on the previous order conditions for the bank restabilization that was approved last year um the other change that we did was we uh relocated the winter storage of the removable section the last section uh to be located on the first landing on the stairway itself so we wouldn't be bringing it all the way up to the stairs and storing it on the property and is that Landing big enough to support it yeah it's just it's just big enough in the end can if if it has to hang over a foot or two to the next set of stairs going down it can so yeah yeah it it it didn't appear to be quite long enough but yeah yeah it can overhang a little bit but most of it will be on that landing and it'll be tied down with probably bungee cords or rope or something okay um does anybody have any questions comments Commissioners go ahead P hi uh the uh pool fence uh that's going to be reconfigured to uh uh you know uh keep people away from the pool it's a safet def fence correct uh correct I think um yeah the plan that we've submitted for the record just shows that you know the sections need to be removed within the easement itself uh the exact details on how that's going to be reconfigured we we don't have any control over that right now I don't believe so that's uh that's someone else's responsibility I believe so yeah um yeah we just have to make sure that's going to happen you know what I mean uh for safety sake yeah it it was a concern of mine as well yeah I was could that could that be a condition on the plan um on the in the order of conditions we'd usually want to see how it's going to look on the plan because when somebody goes out our agent whoever that might be at the time hopefully it's still Paul um needs to know what what's supposed to be happening so just saying that it needs to be taken care of sort of doesn't tell us what will be being done so I don't know how you deal with that aspect I I think that falls back on conversations with the current owners and probably their legal staff so I I maybe TJ can step in and tell tell you where we were at with the conversations okay all right so as as far as conversations uh with the owners of 500 BR and drive uh and through their legal representation um Plan before you the plan before you is the best that we could get to I know that we were instructed to uh reach out and chat uh with their attorney um I did so and uh if the commission has any concerns about the pool fencing itself um I know that it is within the easan area we are allowed to use the easan area correct um I believe on the on the plans it is indicated as removal is there a way within your easement area to re put reconfigure it within the easement area I'm I'm sure there is a way that we could come up with some sort of detail on how that's going to be accomplished um obviously at the last meeting we're hoping that it would be done together with the owners but we we could come up with our own solution and whether they accept it or not at least it'll be on a plan for you to approve well it would be if it's within your easement then I mean just like I we don't have any say in how they feel about anything you know we're looking at this project as your project so as long as it's within the easement we can then accept that whether anything happens after that I we have no control over we we are just looking at this project in as its own being so um if you can find a way to reconfigure the fence that would be very good because it is a safety issue my my guess is it would probably require an additional fence along the edge of the easement to enclose it which might be like 60 70 ft something like that so but we'll look at it and do what we have to do yeah okay that would be great yeah and perhaps maybe get something in writing and maybe a design for that fence well if they put it within their easement on this plan it's their project it would would be wonderful if everybody could work together but um we've gone through this for a lot of months so and you say you've tried as an alternative to actually removing the fencing themselves would the commission be amable to sets of gates you're leaving the fences is you can't you've got to go up if you're going to talk sorry that's okay um so you're saying replace it with a fence slash gate yes you use the use the existing fencing that's there but to the extent that the fencing um interferes with our access through the easeman area we would propose Gates I think that would take care of it that way that would take care of the safety aspect of the pool fence yeah so then what we would need is a new plan that shows that rather than removing the fence that you're putting in a gate with the speci specifics of that as you know that part self closing Gates yeah I'm sure will make sure that we specify self-closing and in compliance with the uh safety issues for pools and so forth yeah okay anything else Pop um and would would you be getting together with the owner of 500 as well on this plan just to just to make sure they're comfortable with that I can continue conversations um but but again um those keep those conversations private but uh to the extent of those to the extent that I have had conversations with them um what's reflective on the plan is what's on the plan right the gates will be on the easement anyway right that would be corre yes so that would at least allow us access through the through the Ean area okay thank you anybody else Mr zler wants Mr Zigler has raised his hand he represents own Mr Zager Adam zagger yes um you know I represent Stephen and Stacy Bron and the trust through which they own the property um you we have had conversations uh with the against attorney um but you just to be clear we we we do not consent to any kind of removal uh or alteration of the fence or any kind of installation of a gate um you know that that structure has been there for what we understand in excess of 20 years we don't you think they have a right to remove it that's obviously a private property issue um the reason I Rose my raised my hand is because there's another concern that we've been sort of struggling with uh on this application um you know obviously we don't support it but you know our our our understanding of the bylaw is that mitigation is required when we built uh you know had our permit for issued for our stairs that are going down the center of the property you know we essentially had to do onetoone mitigation and this application is proposing no mitigation and we you know we think that's problematic and and we're struggling to understand how the commission um is seems inclined to approve it without any kind of mitigation happening um so we' be interested in hearing from the commission on that issue and I understand that concern and it was concern of mine first of all um I believe your owners have put in mitigation in that area correct for their projects in we have put in mitigation for our project but that mitigation does not cover the square footage for this project correct um so it's it's it's like this project is not providing any mitigation they have said they will do Beach Grass uh in Disturbed areas and the thing is there is no real area for mitigation given that you all have already done the mitigation in that area for your property because it is your property but they have the easement so Paul but that well wait a minute Paul whitean MH can you speak to this a little because we discussed it uh sure I I I think uh that the commission uh looked at the mitigation issue and there isn't much room to do any mitigation given the nature of the easen how small it is or at least the width of it most of it's being taken up by the project itself um it is unusual to not have a mitigation uh for a project in this case I suppose it could could be justified on the basis of what I just said um but you know some beach grass we could even consider some off-site mitigation that could be uh applied if the uh owners if that would satisfy them uh and the the easement holders were willing to do that um we could I could figure out somewhere we could do some off-site mitigation which which is permissible uh but I I don't know that there's any area on the site that will uh will hold or take any mitigation I think that's the issue yeah we would have to dig up your mitigation mitigated and that's exactly our point though is that if you don't if you can't do mitigation and and you're not you know and we're not willing to allow off-site mitigation you know it seems to me it's not your your it's not your call to make off-site mitigation you don't get to decide that that's our that's the commission's decision we have in the past if a project the area does not support the ability to do mitigation for the project that's been proposed we have allowed that property to do mitigation elsewhere and we determine where the M it's usually Town property um so that they're not not doing mitigation um and this is something we we've been discussing and trying to figure out how to deal with it um also your coverage table says that's you know all not applicable and you actually are modifying within the the aura and so you know the square footage should be reflected in there um you know when somebody does stairs they you know the area calculations table is usually filled out with how much uh square footage is being used for each area the 0 to 50 no disturb and the 50 to 100 out so um that is I mean yes Mr Zager you have brought up a a valid point and it is something we've been struggling with because this is highly unusual doing it with an easement and given that you have already done mitigation on the bank which is where we would usually expect it and they have said that any Disturbed areas they would put beach grass in but um you know other than that it's hard because you already have the mitigation going in just they they would not have the right to they they have a 10 foot easement along the boundary line of the property so it's not like we've used up their mitigation they would have no right to put any mitigation measures in any portion of the property other than within their eement area correct but from what I no if and we've dealt with this property quite a bit um they have the property owners have put M before all this started with the steps going down in the easement they had mitigation going over to that area so it makes it hard for you can't double up your in the same area the mitigation so um I will ask them to evaluate um the bank and come with a plan we were not approving this today anyway so um and we will go forward from there they'll give us the coverage because we do need the coverage table in order to even issue an order and we'll see you know we'll get more detail on their mitigation besides that they're putting in Beach Grass we'll get the square footage of Beach Grass they're putting in okay thank you thank you thank you so just to be clear on Note number one on the plane we broke down the areas of structure uh within each resource area so you want that broken down uh again to include within the buffer zones everything is within everything is within a resource area right now so nothing is actually right within the bu but you see usually well we have you know the no dist we need the coast what's how much square footage on the Coastal Bank how much you know 50 to 100 all of that so just like every other plan that we ever receive and you have I believe top of Coastal Bank I don't know that you have the 50 or the 100 marked on your plan well CU all the work is below well we have it for the resour on the Coastal Bank yeah but there's no work within the buffer because it's all in the resource right but the Coastal Bank yeah Coastal Bank is still an area so you do if if you could just I guess yes you do have it on the plan but usually we see that as a separate thing you can leave it on the plan all right so um and the other thing a lot of it is already vegetated so the the node for the grasses are only what becomes Disturbed during the constru is it vegetated with invasives or um i' I'd have to go back and check have to be native yeah I don't I I don't believe so but that is something that we could take a closer look at please and part of the mitigation that I think we talked about before is there an existing foot path corre on the ground So that obviously will be removed and revegetated we have that note on the plan correct but we we'll take a closer look at it with the if there's any invasives and come up with a plan for that removal then maybe CL maybe put it in a table form for disturbances that's easier to follow Mr zagger you have something else no that's that's sufficient for for now oh okay I saw your hand was still raised so I thought maybe you did no okay so when could we continue this too um I mean we probably need three or four weeks to get someone out to evaluate the invasive and so so so we're looking at September we have how about the lovely date of September 11th that's fine with me is that com with you okay then we will continue this to the meeting on September 11th that's okay I move that we continue 500 Shore Road to the meeting on September 11th 2024 for an order of conditions no notice intend uh notice of intent want me to read it again no for a notice of intent I second it Paul all right Cheryl I Eric I and I say I thank you thank you for your time this afterno thank you all right the next one Paul okay Madam chair next on the agenda is a notice intent the the address is 97 tipy run uh staging and access on 75 tipy run uh the applicant is tr97 Nomine trust map 14 A3 parcel 2B and n131 D number se10 3690 uh this is an emergency repair of an existing Co castal engineering structure which are all very familiar with okay go ahead Dan charm mle here with time Bond representing the applicant hi Dan how are you good how are you okay do you mind if I do a quick screen share I have a brief presentation awesome all right can everybody see that yes all right I will get started then so um so uh here today to um there we go present some updates to the commission um there was some additional information um was requested at the last meeting um so we're going to update the commission on uh planting plans for 97 and um small area on the 75 tipy run parcel um some additional mitigation measures that are uh planned to be provided we have some clarifications on the chadam buffer zone impact and then um some responses to uh agency letters and most specifically um property ownership questions along the shoreline that we will be clarifying with the commission today okay so um here is uh a planting plan of what is to be what we are proposing to for a planting at 97 TIY run uh you can see the uh this area down here is the revetment area um this is the house and uh some of the The Hardscape pool area that's up here um we have this is the existing access that uh used to go down to the Shoreline so we're providing um plantings all along the edge here um small pathway area here along the shoreline um typically this is used uh by the homeowner to access the beach over here um and then a small pathway here to access other portions of the shoreline then we have um plantings proposed all along the shoreline um I will say one um change or revision that needs be made on this plan instead of uh red Fescue along the pathway the plan is to use uh wild strawberries um instead of the red Fescue so that is a quick overview of this planting plan and then over on the 75 tipy run parcel um just as a reminder so this is where the access road for the work on 97 is coming down um there's already an existing approved planting restoration plan for work on the 75 parcel um so the area to be restored is just the uh access roadway here so here is the uh planting plan for this area this is the Disturbed area here um so we have some you know Eastern Red Cedar Beach Plum uh Northern Bayberry Carolina row um it's a relative L limited area because it's just the access roadway on this parcel um additional mitigation meas measures so the um the applicant has already uh made a sizable payment to the uh inl fee program that was made to the uh Massachusetts Department of Fish and Game um to pay for um offsite mitigation measures and then um the applicant has already um put Road plates over the uh tide gate on Morris Island Road and the applicant is agreeing to leave those Road plates in place and those will become property of the Town um the some clarification on the local bylaws uh local bylaw uh buffer areas so um we put together the table and then we also provided a figure showing um where and how the areas are calculated here so the um the only actual proposed Hardscape is just the area of the um the granite pavers that were to be along the pathway here and then um the rest of the area for mitigation is additional planting areas outside of the revetment um there is a small area of the revetment where it's a two layer revetment so for the crust we talked about this in the previous meeting the top is going to have a single layer of armor Stone and then there's going going to be um sand fill placed on top of that and then that area is going to be planted so it is structure but the structure is buried and it's going to be um planted with vegetation on top of that and then the question of land ownership so um this question was raised by natural heritage um the GIS maps for the state and for the town show the uh parcel at 30 wik way over here extending along Shoreline and connecting to the Nature Preserve um after doing some deep dive into registry of deeds and property plans Etc um so we find that uh so this is a screenshot of the uh recorded plan for the parcel at uh 97 tipy run here you can see um United States of America Department of interior this property extends all the way around here and obviously this is our Shoreline over here this would be the parcel at 30 wik way and then um looking at other recorded um plans so this is the recorded Parcels for 7559 and 27 till be run um to show you and obviously this also shows land along the water side here um but in doing a little bit of a deeper dive here and this is just for a um kind of comparison purposes just to show you how far off the GIS mapping is so this recorded property line is 245.20 Ft so the GIS maps are off by about 40t um on the property lines and then um also getting some more information on the site um Morris Island very Dynamic environment um using ccm's records here we can see that the shoreline of uh of Mor Island in this area has retreated about 210 ft um since 1951 those recorded plans the one for 97 tilp dates from the mid-50s and the rest of the parcels is from the mid-60s um since that time that Shoreline obviously has receded significantly um and our we did a survey with a PLS on site we recovered the recorded bounds that are on there and um the survey and all the available information shows that that Shoreline land that was owned by the US government is now completely underwater and no longer exists so that clarifies that issue um all of the work being done is on property owned by um owned by the applicant and that is it and with that I'll open it up to uh discussion from the commission and questions okay um the 75 Tippi uh mitigation plan can you tell me how many trees were taken out for that access road within our jurisdiction I don't know off the top of my head but I want to say it was two or three it was not that many over there um because this area was just vegetative right along the border here um I can confirm with the owner at 75 I don't know what the number is really like to know where they were located whether they were in the ndz or the outer Aura because that does determine how many trees should be replacing so that is important um as far as mitigation we had said or I had said in a previous meeting that um part of the mitigation could uh be the removal of trees from underwater that are in front of the property um I don't see that mentioned yes so the um that was talked over with the applicant um his legal team has significant concerns about doing that work off his property um and doing that offsite so they strongly recommended that he not agreed to doing that work but you're you're putting Boulders in that in underwater but you're saying that then the trees you have concerns about removing trees but not about putting something else in am I correct he has his legal team had concerns about doing work off his property if a hydraulic host brakes removing trees things like that um it was concerns from his and I'm not a lawyer I'm not but that is that is what they recommended um okay I will say he's also providing significant payment to the inl fee program to provide off-site mitigation for the property um he's providing the road plates at no cost to the town um he's also providing a rigorous planting plan um to replant revegetate the site so it's quite a bit of mitigation taking place already right um all right so when you did your coverage your calc coverage calculation table um this does not include what the boulders that you're putting you proposed to put underwater correct the this table is for the buffer zones all of that other work is in resource areas there's a very small area here that is in the buffer zone um and that is accounted for on the table but it's also being planted with plantings right okay and I do understand that you you know when I I appreciate that you are your owners are leaving the plates that are on the the gate but if we didn't have these trucks going over it we wouldn't have that issue correct there is no issue the town requested that the place be provided because it was eroding on the sides I believe um of the road and it was going to fall in um so you know I I do appreciate that the plates are being left and they need to be down anyway for the entire project since you will still have trucks going over that gate for four properties with Boulders um so if the homeowner has concerns about not uh legally not wanting to get these trees out of the water which are a huge safety hazard in that area um I'd like to propose and I haven't really thought this out but we just had a an order where we did something similar that we maybe could set up a special fund at that would fund the town removing those trees it releases the legal oblig you know worries of your owners and they would and I I have zero idea how much or how this would work because I'm just floating an idea um they would put money into the fund that we would then as a town be able to use to remove those trees and I see Paul's hands up so I'm going to let him get into this right Thank you madam chair um and and um I just had a couple of comments um uh Ted can speak to the issue of the Integrity of the tide gate and uh why those plates need to be there um when I'm finished um but some of the trees that are in there I believe are still from the applicant's property um I don't know what this contribution that was made to the U agency was it's it's a matter of public record you probably should disclose it you say significant amount um but it's not private I mean it's a public agency and you know it should be disclosed if we ask for it but I guess what we're asking is would your would your client consider uh the town taking responsibility legally um and paying into uh this fund to remove these trees some of which are your clients and I would say that because the wall failed um the erosion was exasperated South and um you could make an argument that uh it's contributing to the trees that are there they're a significant issue to the town and um I would think that your client was going to do a robust landscape plan anyway um so you know I guess what we're asking is you to go back and look at that issue with your client and talk it over with him and we've really bent over vlads to to help you with this application we've had two emergency starts issued the first one was for a a a a bulkhead project uh it turns out that uh borings were done after the bulkhead plates were ordered that soil was liquefied the decision was made not to use the bulkhead but to come in with a rock rentman it extends 400 feet out into the channel um it's a significant project and those trees are really uh important um mitigation issues so um I guess we'd like you to go back and see what your client says about that and Ted made the point yesterday that we could take the responsibility for the liability and the legal issues uh if your client's willing to pay into that fund um and if Ted wanted to just chime in through the chair on the the plates and what I may maybe add to a little bit about what I just said um I'd appreciate that Ted's not here he's online oh he is okay yeah great I didn't see that he I know he's there because I just went in his office I didn't see his name but that doesn't mean anything all right let me just grab him okay in the meantime your thoughts on what's been said sure So uh the applicant um has paid $187,000 into the inlo fee program for uh mitigation um the road plates come at a cost of $25,000 to the applicant um I guess there are some trees that have come off the property definitely not going to deny that um the Nature Preserve next to it is eroding at a rapid clip correct where I would say probably 90 95% of the trees probably more have come from I guess how do we put how do we put guard rails around expectations for the applicant as to what he should be providing um I I think that can be done here now Paul he just walked in okay Ted we need you we need to hear your thoughts I heard my name and I ran down yes I don't know the question sorry um we were go ahead Paul yeah I'll just um I just did a brief overview Ted I I talked about the uh some of the trees being the applicant trees um that the fund that was paid into um that that would be you know public information and they could probably disclose that significant amount of money but would the applicant be willing to pay into an additional fund to help us with the tree uh issue which is a serious uh navigation issue for us we would take the legal responsibility as you suggested yesterday um and then I added a little bit about the plates and the fact that we probably wouldn't have those there but for the amount of uh weight that's going over that uh tie gate and maybe you could elaborate on the on that a little bit and then also I I mentioned that the erosion was definitely exasperated South on on Fish and Wildlife property as a result of the failure of the wall and probably the wall itself helped to contribute to that over the years um so those are the things that I said Ted okay I'm not sure what the question I need to respond to but the as far as the tide gate I agree that the truck truck traffic probably exacerbated an issue that is legitimate issue that's been ongoing I mean the tie gate is deteriorating oh okay thank you um so the the plates and the side mechanim that was added was very important for this project um for the work to occur and should continue to to be placed there maintained MH um as far as the trees I I mean we know there are a lot of trees most of which many of which most have come from the adjacent property um many of the trees that are still out there are on the tital flats adjacent to that property those are not the ones that we are right now specifically uh were interested in having the applicant consider removing it was the deeper water trees that are frankly TI uh Commonwealth tied lands that are the ones that we're concerned about because they are very difficult to date for us in our own Contracting Crews to try to remove and we felt that that was an appropriate mitigation effort for the applicant um I I heard a brief comment that you know they're already placing Stone underneath the tide lands well the trees are in the same jurisdiction it's presumably it's not really fish and wildlife land it's Commonwealth tide lands um again I'm not sure what other questions they were looking for me well we I had floated the idea of a them donating to a special fund that would allow the town to remove the trees since the owners are have been advised by their legal advisers that um there is a liability and I did say I have no idea how much that would be or how it would work it was just an idea I was floating I mean it seems like a reasonable approach I mean we're comfortable taking on that liability with an appropriate contractor I mean in essence we're kind of doing it now as best we can with local folks um they just can't get to or handle some of these larger trees that are underwater um and they're moving around there's no question about that so if that were uh ultimately agreed upon I think we'd be very willing to um pursue that likewise I think you had already mentioned I don't know what that would cost either yeah and I I don't know how we we'd have to do some research to come up with some sort of an idea of an amount if and that would be as long as the owners are amenable to this I don't know if they how they're going to think and but I would like it to be offered to the owners uh and it would be considered mitigation and and and I did want it because I heard Paul reference this and want to comment I do agree that there is some level of exacerbation of the erosion adjac to the property with the revetment that's going in I mean that's a well-known situation that you have a hardened Shoreline next to Natural shorelines if you will that erosion gets accelerated through denial of material entering in the system as well as wave um you know changes in the wave direction as it approaches and hits the wall I we see all that obviously up at the Northern end as well correct all right thank you do you have any comments Dan on this Dan jump in here um for the commission I'm Brian Angus I'm with Ty Bond as well um also here on behalf of the applicant um just uh to Mr Whitman's last brief comment um the commission knows we're also undergoing review by a slew of other agencies right now and various state agencies and meepa have raised the same uh concern about the end erosion and I think we'll be um conditioning monitoring of that so that's something that the commission uh could also consider um with respect to the discussion of a a fund for tree removal by the town just so that we can can appropriately communicate this to our client um I'd like to better understand the commission's jurisdiction here um the mitigation under the bylaw and the regs is for buffer zone impacts um the majority of the impacts here are land under ocean um below Coastal Bank below mean high water um no require IR Ms for mitigation per se in the wetlands protection act and as Dan mentioned we're already subject to compensatory mitigation through the Army Corp process so not no one's disagreeing that the trees are an issue and I think hopefully Town staff will communicate that Dan and I uh met with them to try and come up with a solution to this but this is where we are but I just want to I want to understand the commission's jurisdiction to push for this on top of the planting plan um and the road plates that have been offered well to to um clarify at initially before you had a mitigation plan it was presented that we were very open to the removal of trees being a part of that mitigation plan yes it's unusual uh but we have a safety issue and there are trees that came off of the owner's property and we need to get them out of the water so that's why we've this is part of the discussion um it's not normal mitigation nor are the plates normal mitigation but and we appreciate that donation of the plates but the plates are there because we needed them for your project because it was damaging the road and the tial gate but the tree removal of of the water we were saying could be a part of a sort of a solution and it's as I said it's not the ordinary way we go but we we have such a concern about safety in the waters and the amount of people who go by there all the time and God forbid something happened I I think it's just and it honestly might be a language thing I think it's the way we're phrasing it I I think our our point is that with the planting plan uh the applicant is sufficiently mitigating for the impacts within the buffer zone like we understand the safety you are you are very your mitigation is very good um and we appreciate that we still feel that there's another aspect that needs to be dealt with and whether you pull back some of the other mitigation you could do that that's your prerogative but if we could get we need to get these out and some of them are yours and they your property owners and it's a concern so okay that helpful clarification and that honestly makes you know we're we're we're between the commission and the applicant so that correct uh makes helpful to communicate back and I could add this I don't know if Ted's still there but um I I guess it would be upon us to come up with some uh the parameters um that we'd like to see address um with the tree removal and then get back to you with those parameters um as far as you know mitigation goes we do off-site mitigation the regulations don't prohibit that um and this is really more of a this is such an unusual project the the the largest revetment I think ever done in chatam um and we appreciate everything that your clients's done I hope you appreciate everything that we have done um this is an issue the tree issue is a really huge concern for the Harbor Master um and if you can work with us on it great if you come back and say no then I I don't think we can force you to do anything um but we'd really appreciate the cooperation because we we've been really working hard with you to cooperate with you uh and me specifically to you know issue multiple extension orders with dates that start uh after those orders are signed which is unusual um two different projects that were you know proposed and um it's a significant problem so we'd like your help with it if your client has the resources to do it we'll take on the liability issue but it's up to us to get the parameters laid down with Greg Ted and um the uh Jason the Harbor Master and get back to you with some scope that is you know reasonable uh and you can present to your client sound fair yeah all right I think at this point if anybody else has any any other Commissioners I would very much appreciate mine's easy go ahead um the access road um it's all hard pan I would imagine because the 10 wheelers were back and down there all day long is are you planning on Excavating the surface of the hard pan replacing it with some soft bill or sand before you plant plant the the road right now is um geotextile laid over the existing subgrade and Then followed by probably 6 to 10 in of um 3 to six inch Stone um obviously we need to remove all that in order to replant so all that will be removed and then you know the area yeah the area will be prepped for planting thank you okay Bob do you have anything just piggy backed on that uh the irrigation system will have to be reworked as well correct the so the area on 75 I believe um has irrigation and that would be you know restored to its original condition I believe some of that was kind of removed to put in the aess roadway as part of the initial excavation um the the area of on 97 that is being planted was not um it was not and is not currently irrigated um you know the plantings be maintained but there's no plan to install permanent irrigation on the Coastal Bank over there terrific thank you Cheryl okay Paul anything okay uh Paul Whitman do you have anything else no I'm all set thank you madam chair and um thank you to um Dan all right uh then we are going to need to continue this Dan when would you like to continue it to um let's do assuming the town can get on this pretty quick I'd like to go to your next available meeting which I believe is a week out from today uh I'd really prefer could we uh continue it till the 28th of August would that be possible I guess we can the reason and I will tell you the reason we have some key players who are uh unable to attend and we need in order to have this move forward we will need them okay I just I will caveat it with the project is scheduled to restart the Tuesday after Labor Day right um it is still an emergency we you know we've obviously been working with the commission to provide everything we need to be able to close on that so we can get started and finish the our hope is that on the 28th we can come to a a a final answer and then we we are scheduled for the 4th of September to meet and which is the day after Labor Day but we could have an order for then for a September 4th as long as we have come to an agreement on the 28th okay I'm I'm still so that's I guess let me just look at a calendar here quickly September 4th is the day after Labor Day okay um and if the Ord approved I could get Crystal to September 4th is the Wednesday after Labor okay W yeah Wednesday after wouldn't be able to start until Thursday at the soonest for construction I guess that doesn't really work for the construction schedule correct I you know we're doing the best unfortunately with this being the summer we have issues with people being away Paul go ahead yeah we're GNA have Dan uh if we lose Janet from more two meetings uh not going to be able to vote you can only miss one meeting um miss a lease too right um so it would be it'd be Quorum issues and yes you know we don't want to have that we want to be able to move forward with it but if we have a quorum issue and ineligible Commissioners because they missed too many meetings then we can't do it have to start again so there's no possible way to appear on the 14th we won't be able to get a vote I I they're both unavailable I can't vote [Laughter] twice yeah I mean it's I mean you there is a chance a lease can call in but I can't guarantee it and then Janet's out and then we have a Corum issue and the 28th you're out but you're out the next three so he you know really it's actually unfortunately in your best interest to wait till the 28th in order to have a quorum because if we can't have a quum and if we don't have a quorum next week we wouldn't be able to deal with it anyway I guess can we like when will you know if you're going to have Quorum for next week or do you absolutely know right now you will not um is there way we can continue to next week and then kind of make a you know a quote you know call it a game day decision as we get closer if there's definitely not going to be quum um I hate to push out construction delay the contractor extra days um they're they're ready to go and I get it and we're doing everything we can and Y I mean we've really only met about this once this is our second um so we're doing everything we can to get this through as quickly as possible if you if you I don't believe were a part of the other three toppy run properties but it was over a year to get those revetments and the orders so we're doing the best we can um you know we're we understand your undertime Crunch and we're trying very hard gu is there any drawback to planning to be on the next meeting and having to continue again you know just uh yeah I was just going to suggest that uh if um is it aise that could phone in you think she maybe she thinks she will be able to so we could go to the 14th see if she could phone in we'll know by the 14th and we can communicate to Dan before the meeting and and continue if if if we can't get her to phone and it may it may come down to actually trying to do it and not you know she for some reason because she's out of the country it doesn't work then in which case we'd have to just move on to continue she actually next week actually I was incorrect when I said they're both out of the country she is not out of the country but um I'll have to see we Frank yes I see you have your hand raised uh yeah I just wanted to speak at the appropriate time when the public can say something thank you okay well Frank go ahead uh I'm actually watching your meeting for another application but Frank can you just identify yourself with your full name of Frank massina 58 Island VI Lane South of Massachusetts yeah uh as I said I was uh just happen to be watching this for another meeting another application but uh I'm a voter stage Harbor for many years and I'm concerned about what's going on in terms of the reluctance of the applicant to uh clean up his mess and uh worrying about money uh the wrong thing I mean I guess the issue of liability is something we can deal with also my well more intrinsic my question is have have you folks established a precedence I mean you know in 75 years mors is's going to be gone and uh you know what are we doing here I mean Wildlife Refuge is is is is losing and natur that naturally they're not doing anything and it's impacting these people but that's you know that's happens when you buy a property right on the ocean you're going to lose it eventually and nothing's forever especially on Morris Island uh and uh I just hope that uh we the town of chadam and you the Conservation Commission Haven you know taken a step that we're all going to regret when we see revetments all over the place which do nothing more than uh accelerate the water volume of the water uh you know the speed of the water and uh create problems that for everybody else thank you very much thank you Frank okay um so I think we've established we will continue it till the 14th and which is next week I will connect with Elise and make sure that she absolutely can attend and we'll be able to attend the following meeting after that if we go to an order which I hope we can for you um because she will have to be at both in order for this to have a quorum because we will be missing Janet if at next month next week's and she actually personally had asked that we not take this on then but okay that works all right we will if we could have a motion I move that we continue 97 tipy road to the meeting on August 14th 2024 for an order of conditions no forent oh do that oh for order ENT okay weed oh you hoped okay of intent that was a hope and a prayer I second okay Paul I I Carl Eric I and I say I all right Paul we're on to the next thank you okay thank you madam chair thank you everyone uh next on the agenda is 159 this is a notice of intent application 159 C Pine Road the applicants are Michael and Elizabeth Baldwin map 11k parcel hc13 uh I don't have a full D DPS number for it uh at this moment so it's demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling within land subject to Coastal storm Flowage and I will look up that number if I can find it before the hearing ends I'll give it to you thank you uh good afternoon uh David Clark Clark engineering on half of the Baldwins they are in the audience uh this afternoon uh as stated uh we're here to uh seek an order conditions to demolish the existing house and replace it with a new dwelling uh the resource areas uh associated with crows Pond are revetted Coastal Bank uh and the flood plane uh the flood plane encompasses nearly the whole property it goes be past the house and and includes the depression that's between the street and the house um so uh we're very constricted as to uh where we could uh redevelop this house uh um making the situation worse is our zoning bylaw that prohibits any alteration of the ground within the flood plane um we we did cons as one of our Alternatives we we did consider moving the project further back from the bank but that pushes us further down the slope to the depression uh which requires a lot more uh or requires um cutting and filling uh for the driveway which were prohibited from doing under the zoning by law so we were kind of stuck with the footprint we had or or the the general location where the existing house is um so we we did our best to move it back as you can see uh the existing deck is is quite close to the top of the revetment um so we've we've pulled that back along with the house so the deck itself is Inland of the face of the the seaward face of the existing house so I think there's a considerable amount of improvement on that side of the house so there is a slight expansion um primarily due to uh we're losing the basement right now there is a basement in this house and under the building code and FEMA regulations you cannot have in space below the lowest adjacent grade outside the house uh so uh there is a increase in the in the footprint of the house um and that's reflected in our area calculation uh So within the flood plane itself there's a 241 Square ft uh increase in in sight coverage um there was an email earlier this week regarding uh the buffer zone the 15 100 um I I chose not to put that on this plan um because the way I read the bylaw the adjacent Upland resource area is adjacent to a resource area uh and this is all flood plane uh I did email a site coverage calculation uh that kind of I think is what was asked for um but it it's the same numbers presented in a different manner um because we're working in a resource area uh we've provided nearly 1,000 square F feet of mitigation uh which is on the blue flx plan um far in excess of 3:1 um and closer to and actually it's an excess of 4:1 as far other mitigation um since we were reconfiguring the driveway to for access to the garage uh all of the driveway within the flood plan will now be pervious so we're taking up all that asphalt um and getting rid of that uh existing title 5 system uh was was put in under the 1995 code there's no reason to upgrade the leech field however the septic tank needs to be moved as part of this uh and we be moved uh behind the garage um not much left as far as the uh the engineered plan uh I believe see who's in there from uh from Blue flock uh I I don't think anybody's there's no Mike or Teresa okay pretty it's pretty basic yeah the commission saw this I don't know who was on the commission back in 2000 or 2001 but we were before the commission none of you you would be the only Bob wasn't around then close enough but no um1 yeah 20 or 21 um 21 21 or 2001 I just 21 I think or 20 I was here but uh that that project didn't go forward and uh the Baldwins wind up buying that project behind the house yeah I thought we had I didn't look it up that um anyways um so one of the reasons I asked about the the markings the buffer you know the 50 and the 100 is what is your because Teresa's plan does have it and what is your coverage in the outer Aura um what percentage right now of the outer Aura because it looks like it's I'm looking for the way more than 35% well right now it's well only 270 square fet of this property is in the 50 to 100 because um not only do we have the Coastal Bank where the revetment is the two side slopes on both sides of the house are technically under your regulations a Coastal Bank so you go 50 from that inward it only leaves us a 270 square fet right smack in the middle of the house so um we're going so you're saying we can't go by Teresa's 50 and 100 markings well because she only has a 5050 and a 100 and there's we're at 40 of that 270 Square F feet we're about 42 square feet at 42% coverage now and because the house is retreating we're moving into that and we're going to 93% but it's 270 sare ft is the total 50 and 100 so but that's but your 93% total yes and unfortunately that's right smack in the middle of the where everybody wants the house so uh yeah and you get credit for the area removing out of the 0 to 50 well we can we can acknowledge that uh I'm going to let other people ask questions I feel like I've done a lot today go ahead up I'll shoot a couple of questions off uh the shed the existing shed David does that have a permit probably not in that oh it does I'm sorry it does have a per I I thought it was there before the ball was on sorry and uh let's see what else did I have uh yeah so are there going to be plantings around the new house we don't I don't believe Teresa shows any but uh if there are any they'll be straight natives because we understand that it's all a resource area and no distrib on but at this point none are proposed okay so uh so any plantings that occur will have to be approved by the agent that would be fine and we understand because it nearly the whole well the whole property is a no distrib Zone because it's almost entirely in the in the flood plane that they would be 100% straight natives okay great uh Teresa is not here to go over the uh mitigation areas um there's that uh beach grass planting right right right on top right right at top of the uh revent uh it looks pretty healthy it does um and you're proposing a steel edging for delineation or demarcation of the uh mitigation let me just give me a second get Teresa's plan yeah it's on the plan I thought there was yes okay and the the uh lawn the irrigated lawn will remain yes but it's going to be on the water side it's going to be changed to a fescue in micel Clover so it probably won't need much of anything okay so the irrigation will be removed on the on the water side of the of the house I am not going to say yes to that I would have to consult with Teresa to see if it's it's needed to remain okay um okay uh I think that's all I have for now thank you all right anybody else go ahead charl um you had said that the driveway was going to be pervious the entire driveway even the part that goes up to the road or because it's relatively steep that's what I wondered we were going to keep that asphalt but the the maneuvering area and the flat area that's all within the flood plane will be pervious anything else sh that's all I was wondering Eric okay and the house is above a revent the way I look at it so Crystal reminding us that the there's still an outstanding order for the replacement of the and we cannot um issue an order until you close that which she I think you said Bob Bob Perry is working on is working on that um but I don't understand why you can't issue an order there's nothing in the regulations and there's nothing in the protection act that says you can't um Paul Paul do you want to speak yeah well David knows uh appreciate the comment but um if you've got an open order um you need to close that out um I'm not going to site a rag on it but it's been practice of the commission uh for decades to do that I don't think we've ever deviated from that once um recently yeah and uh even though this is a different project um you still have two open orders you know and DP FRS upon that although I will acknowledge that the one Bob's working on has nothing to do with um the current one that David's working on having said that I talked to Bob yesterday I think he'll have it in uh for the next meeting yeah yeah I understand there's a d policy for uh two orders and conditions for the same project um and this is a different project I get that but what if we doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of concerns we do need to know if the irrigation will be still remain in the back or not um we'll condition that of course anything that's put around the house would uh have to be approved by the agent um we have to have a variance for the 95% coverage but obviously there you don't have a lot of control over that so that's okay go ahead Bob I just had one other uh comment where the mitigation is uh you you have some plants that are going to grow pretty tall Beach Plum uh sumac uh inkberry uh even Bay Berry can get high uh that's going to obstruct some of the view just just as a comment I don't know uh if if um Teresa is able to put any shorter plants in that area but I'm just thinking about longterm how they're going to grow as they reach maturity you mean the trimming be forced to trim well they would not supposed to no right so that might be a concern you know in the future yeah I'm sure Teresa has had that discussion with them and just looking at the grades you know our first floor is going to be up at elevation 14 okay um and and so the top of vment elevation 10 more or less so I'm I'm sure that was considered but thank you for the heads up sure so I think we'll get the the request for a coc for next week what if we scheduled this for the 28th we're going to zba I think the 22nd um are you yeah I thought so 28th would be fine yeah yeah you are and that's why I had down the 28th okay um and then we could do an order at that time and if you need something from Z for zba saying you know a letter saying that we've reviewed this and there aren't any great issues we can do that that would be appreciated yeah okay um okay then I think we can continue this to um the 28th for order I move that we continue 159 cine road to the meeting on August 28th 2024 for a order of conditions I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I thank you okay thank you okay Paul we are join uh yeah just for the record to the 159 does have a full um theep number it was up on the screen 3696 my agenda just didn't have it okay next on the agend next on the agenda is uh 60 Robins way notice 10 applicant Yugi uh I'll give this a shot sugato map 10K parcel 12-9 D number don't have it all here SE 36 I'll have to look it up proposed driveway reconstruction installation of a septic system with an IA component including plantings that's the project good afternoon hi for the record that aldrid e Southeast we're back into an easier one 170 square ft of increase we've requested a variance for a little bit of landscaping that's going on within the 50 um a slew of native plants on that list [Music] some some in the outer buffer that are not so native but we're meeting the 75% the applicant was looking to upgrade the septic system there'll be a denitrifying septic system going in that'll allow for the conversion of an office to have a door on it the leeching field needs to be replaced it'll be sighted outside the 100 fot so there's all benefit there the driveway is a little bit tight as it stands today so they like a circular driveway that's what adds the 170 square ft it will be the the same perious material that we have out there and I do have Shannon here to be able to review the Landscaping plan go ahead hi um if you could identify yourself first oh I'm sorry it's okay Shannon Goen second nature garden works so Thad told me that our mitigation requirement for this was 170 square fet um I managed to put in 740 Square fet in front of the applicant's deck which faces the water there is currently a spruce tree there and um makes total sense to just remove a lot of that grass and go with complete native wild flowers grasses that sort of thing which I have listed on the plan in that box as that bed goes around it passes through through passes beyond the 50t mark and goes into the 50 to 100t as it curves around the front of the house and that is uh we've got um that is is approximately 75 feet uh square feet uh no that's wrong that's wrong um the um size of the beds the total size of the beds from that area taking off that area that says end of 740 ft so the rest of that curving around to the driveway that's approximately 1,40 sare ft uh I have some non natives in there 275 Square ft roughly and the natives are 765 Square ft okay one one thing is and maybe I just am not there's the 50 so in the 50 to 200 what percentage natives do you have we have probably about 10 square feet under 75 okay because it it has to be at least 75 and the only hydrangea that you're putting in that is considered native is the smooth hydrangea all the rest of the hydrangeas are non-native so you're talking about arborescence you consider that's acceptable to you which I have put in here which means that I have more natives than what I just said well no I just of the hydranges I was making sure that you weren't thinking that any of the other hydranges that might be in that area are native because they're not and we've gone through this some people think Oakleaf hydranges are native and they're not considered native so um that was one of my things and I did take them out of my calculations they're not included in the native number okay and I also took the smooth arbites out because I wasn't sure if you accepted them so they have also come out so if they can go back in then I am well over 75 Square 75 uh percent I'm going to let my my can I also just comment aricultural experts um deal with that but go ahead um on the other side so North MH uh within the Inland Conservancy district and the bordered vegetated Wetland area um I also added something that wasn't required I added a strip that's approximately it's just under th000 square feet of complete Natives joyweed and um escalus in carnada so I really went big time on the natives here well we like native um are they straight natives yes they are they're in the on the list yes they are okay um sorry the question I had for you how bad does the water come up there that cuz usually we like the mitigation to be continuous uh continuous with uh usually would be it would be on the water's edge or up a little bit from the water's edge the area of mitigation not around the foundation um but how bad does does the water come High there the salt water uh the salt water is not too bad there I mean we do have a Coastal Bank we because it's pretty much a field I mean it's it's it's a good Cap Cod lawn I can tell um but it looks like it's pretty much a modow field all the way down um pretty much I mean we do have kind a strange area to be contiguous though isn't it um well usually we we like the the mitigation to be contiguous with nature not so you'd like it along the shoreline usually but I in this case I'm not really I mean he's she's extending it yeah I I'm it's hard to see all the lines the 50 and I don't see a single 100 but that could be just yeah they are on there in a red yeah it's that's what I thought I just didn't see where and so I the other thing is it's usually usually we ask that you DeMark it so that nobody's going to you know alter it in the future because it does have to be taken care of forever so the fact that you and I appreciate you've got other areas but you're going to have a lot to Mark given and and to be candid I would consider the foundation plantings not the mitigation but that strip to the north is prime uh that's up against a more naturalized area it is it has a most strip yeah and there is a most STP closest to the closest to the water too is the area off the deck is pretty large so it's kind of kind of contiguous you know we have a wetland on one side and a wetland on the others we've and you've got red and you know 100 foot all over and 50 and 25 I mean it makes it kind of hard to tell that's why I was questioning the hydranges because it's looks like there's a lot of them within our area um but I'm going to defer to others Bob did you have anything uh yeah I got a couple of questions uh the uh Spruce on the uh deck side of the house that existing uh it's right up against the house is that going to be proned it could be okay so that I was just planning on leaving it in place and working around it yeah it could be if it could be proned away from the house that would be a good thing uh and the the existing linden tree on the east side of the house uh that big Lyon that's a huge Lyon huh yeah uh does it I think that had invasives around it or I think there's probably a lot of invasives all around the top of the Coastal Bank uhhuh we weren't I didn't get involved with that but yeah there was invasives everywhere there's invasives all through the Inland conserv District I mean everywhere you look yeah mhm um even even for some of those uh specimen trees those ornamental trees uh be nice to get some invasives away from those trees if they're on the property looks like uh this one is just on the property um just wondering if if youve thought about removing some of those invasives from those um prize prize trees we can certainly do that or you can even cut them cut them down so they die off trim them back and and keep at it and either win the fight or keep trimming them back yeah uh and you're going to have a m strip behind those uh the The Joe pie and butterfly that's a good thing the uh leand Cypress to the right of the entrance driveway entrance if you driving into the property mhm it's pretty gross huh but that's not on your on the property I was thinking I would it's on someone else's property it's on the Boon property oh mhm Oh Oh you mean those Lance down there yeah yeah we can't do much about that can't touch them they're pretty gross unfortunately they're there and they kind of hang you probably could prune them somewhat I think they're probably hanging over the property line maybe well the neighbor will have to or he won't be able to use his right of way Leeland cypresses they make enemies out of neighbors yeah yeah okay well just to just to give it some thought you know as you're driving in they look pretty ugly uh if you can do anything there but uh aside from that I think you know you have a lot of lot of plantings in here I think it's definitely an improvement uh over what's there now thank you I I love this plant I like that the plants kind of go around the house going from all Natives and then they start mixing in some other kinds of things I really enjoy that I also love this plan that you've given us it's very clear thank you and easy for me to like visualize what this property is going to look like which is very helpful for me because I'm not a landscape person so this has been very helpful for me and so I really appreciate how you marked it great and um the things that and that you actually put the most strip in without us asking that was really nice too because we don't always see that um but I and I appreciate that you were really Bound in by water in all kinds of places and I I do I really like this thank you thank you anybody else okay uh Bob Boon you have your hand up you're you're muted if you wanted to speak okay I think I'm unmuted now yes you are um the Le and Cyprus have over do not hang over the property line at all they have already been trimmed back um as far as ugly is concerned that's a value judgment uh I don't think they're ugly uh and they also provide privacy between the two properties now when they have hung over the property line and which it did most recently eug asked me to trim it back and it was trimmed back immediately and if it does ever go over the property line I will trim it I don't need to trim it any further to get into my lower driveway um so I think the leand Cyprus other than people's aesthetic feeling towards them are not an issue here um also while I have the uh floor I had written a letter to the commission asking that the proposed driveway easement that's mentioned on the uh ESC plan since the eugi and I have already agreed on the uh location and the dimensions that I think it should be put those location and dimensions should be included on the plan that in no way to me is a deal breaker I very enthusiastically support ugi's application but um since we have agreed on those dimensions and locations it would make more sense for them to be shown they could still be labeled as proposed because the uh lawyer hasn't finished his end of the work yet but um we're in agreement as to where the uh easement should be is that amendable to you to put when a document is properly recorded at the registry of deeds I will be more than happy to update the plan but when there is not the legal document right then I have a hard time putting it putting it on the plan and as far as the Leland cypresses I think that the commission is pretty consistent at saying that non-natives are ugly non-natives are non aren't just non-natives n some non-natives are better looking than natives uh but fa if we're going to get into the issue of what's recorded with regard to the easement there is an existing easement that is recorded then it should be shown until the proposed easement again which we we both agree on replaces it and this is hardly The Forum to get into the aspects of or the legal aspects of recordation versus plan versus deed it's a the correct Forum since it's a land use hearing to show all elements of landuse currently exist excuse me what we're hearing is the part of the plan that is within our jurisdiction that's all it's not it's yes it is land use but it's the use of land within our jurisdiction which is within 100 feet of wetlands or water um so it's a little different then we don't look at the entire property just to clarify the existing eement is within your jurisdiction it goes down past the 100 foot Mark and man all I'm suggesting again this is not the forum for such a discussion Mr Boon okay it does have excuse me it does have an it does have an easement on the site plan it says Robin's Way easement and has it absolutely shown if that's what you're concerned about no I'm not I'm concerned about the driveway easement that exists that extends beyond the robins way easement so you're saying there's a second e there's an additional easement a driveway easement that extends and it's in your jurisdiction all I'm saying is you should have a the most available information presented to you when you're making a decision no I think appreciate either way if if I may through the chair I've had numerous discussions with Mr Bon on this and he lacks the understanding of our legal system he had a plan drawn after the fact no conveyance coming from it that driveway easement that he's referring to is not in effect it's just drawn he needs a legal document prepared by an attorney recorded at the registry of deeds between the two parties in order to effectively make that easement he has lacked the understanding of this and I'm tired of talking about it this is not the Forum that's fine I'm talking about the existing one which is recorded in which you left off the plan like to close the hearing please or continue it we can continue it uh when would you like to continue it too are there any other questions by the commission Bob I just have a quick question that uh the Cobblestone driveway um uh is that going to be U it's going to be pervious the shell driveway will be pervious the Cobblestone section is actually just outside the 100 yeah they can wet set that okay and there's just an edging to hold all that in place but it is completely perious okay the edging the edging will be well cobbles are usually held together with cement you know so they otherwise when a car drives over it it Wiggles and gets jammed into the ground and techn cobone cobblestone cemented is considered pervious which is cons which you have to calculate the actual square footage of as far as mitigation but in this case you said it was out of the 100 right we put it in the right spot yeah good so when would you like to continue it to when would work be starting on this what um probably not till sometime in the fall so it's it's at your discretion anytime in early September would be fine okay um when is your least busy meeting right now September's not bad uh so you we have September 4th 11th or the 4th would be fine 25th okay so we'll continue it to uh September 4th um if we could have a motion I move that we continue 61 Robin's way to the meeting on September 4th 2024 for a notice of intent I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay we'll see you than you so much have a great afternoon okay Paul the next okay Madam chair next on the agenda is uh actually the last notice of intent application uh no I'm sorry yeah it is it's uh zero crosswind Farm Joseph and Jeremiah and Hana art map 10j parcel 17 A- lp36 the EP number SC10 3688 the project is proposed single family dwelling thank you they're just setting up I assume something to look at hi good afternoon everyone for the record my name is Hannah Raditz Wetland scientist with BSC in front of you this afternoon is a revised application for the site at zeroc crosswind Farm roads what was submitted to um conservation dep department and conservation Commissioners last week was a revised plan which is in front of you now as well as a revised letter to discuss the changes on the plan as well as some other questions that were brought up at the previous hearing um with your permission I'll go ahead and dive into uh the letter absolutely thank you all right so a quick overview of the revisions that were all reflected on this revised plan for the project um as we discussed in the last hearing um the mitigation area needed to be altered what was originally proposed was a mitigation area that was closest to the inner Aura and the resource area of Ryder's Cove and Associated ac across the roadway but as discussed the commission desires um more continuous vegetation um so we have changed up the mitigation area which is this polygon that follows the northern border and bumps out a bit this area will include um trees as well as shrubs in addition to that we have changed up the proposed native Meadow which previously had been called out as mitigation area but as the applicant desires to mow this area at least once annually to maintain it as a native Meadow this is now being called out as a restoration area and that includes the green which was also expanded by 700 19 Square ft to go along the edge of the driveway and then up to the edge to the roadway these two areas combined between the mitigation area and the restoration area comprise about 40% a little over 40% of the site um and 8,900 square ft the mitigation area also now reflects an appropriate amount um for one toone mitigation for impacts to the outer Aura of Coastal Bank and salt marsh which uh would require 2,610 Square ft and we're prop proposing 2, 683 what was also requested by the Commissioners is that all trees within the conservations jurisdiction were included on the plan they're a little hard to see but essentially we've got only um two trees to be removed within the outer Aura of Coastal Bank and the remaining eight trees are located within the um AC and what's proposed in the mitigation planting area is 11 trees two Oaks or three Three Oaks and eight red Cedars The Oaks will either be red or black depending on what's available at the nursery and we'll replace the trees that are going to be removed on the site which are all red Cedars or um Black Oak um one last note before I get into some more nitty-gritty um the parking area um it was requested at this last meeting to see if we could uh change any of the material of that driveway so that parking area which is that area that depicts a a car um in that corner will now be converted to gravel which reduces uh 64 uh 57 Square F feet of impervious um Paving on the site um also as I um we'll just dive in a bit more to the mitigation area it was proposed last time that we should have a wider variety of shrubs with a greater difference in height uh that is reflected on this plan much of the mitigation area is taken up by the trees as they need a lot of space um but we now have a greater diversity of shrubs um within that area and what is also now proposed as a note is that after this planting takes place the area will be stabilized with the same seed mix that will be used in the native Meadow so that will extend those native grasses into the tree area which may die out over time with the the shade but some of them are a bit more shade tolerant so we'll have a better coverage of uh Forbes under the trees um for the uh restoration area as I mentioned earlier it was expanded slightly to go along the edge of the driveway which will provide more of a storm water buffer uh storm water retention and filtration as well as a enhanced displacement of any flood waters should come to the site we're out of any Zone that would expect waves but should a flood come up it's usually at a flat level expanding and therefore uh this Meadow as well as the trees will propose a bit of a buffer so that no displacement should reach the house and then Ricochet onto neighbors Lawns they'll have that uh dense buffer from the the hill um all of land subject to Coastal storm Flowage will be restored which is on the site all of the inner Aura of salt marsh and Coastal Bank will also be restored either with the mitigation planting or the restoration and much of the outer Aura of Coastal Bank and salt marsh will also be uh planted in the letter that we submitted last week we did um address some of the questions from the Commissioners at the last meeting um they had to do with considering um revising the plan uh slightly redesigning um one was to reduce the driveway or change its orientation as well as see if permeable material was possible um in conversations with our engineer and Survey department they believe that it is just too steep to have um permeable materials it would require a lot of upkeep and if it were to be gravel um or even um permeable pavement it would require a lot of upkeep or could clog the drain um and the drain that is either at the edge of the driver way or the uh catch Basin that's on the roadway so that's why we are keeping it um as paved asphalt for the driveway but reducing in the area where we could where it is the parking area um in terms of reducing the driveway that would require um moving the house slightly um and that leads into the next question could the house be rotated or moved in order to spare some jurisdictional resource areas um as we discovered in our site survey there's only a few trees within the outer aura that would be impacted and even shifting it further towards the outer Aura which is not what we were wanting we're trying to keep the house as far away from those resource areas as possible would only spare a few cedars in within AC so the change is not large enough that we considered it was um helpful um or or useful to the interest of the Conservation Commission um we also Al went into great detail on the benefits of grassland and Meadow which I can go into further detail I know it was a bit lengthy um but essentially uh I cited a few studies that showed that um New England's Meadows are uh hearty but they have historically even before Humanity based on um these in reports shown that they only exist due to natural causes such as fire which we don't allow on the cape for good reasons certainly not this close to people's homes or with um Management in one way or another and on that uh note the maintenance of this Meadow um with uh annual mowing outside of uh udon's recommended mowing season which usually starts from about miday to about mid August would still allow for the maximum benefit for pollinators reptiles small mammals and birds but also keep this Meadow as a for Bland and not as a Shand or eventually Forest uh with that I will go ahead and turn it over to the Commissioners for any questions and comments okay um just have a couple um I think you need to update your coverage table now that all mitig not everything is mitigation you're using restoration and mitigation because it says you're doing 6,455 Square ft across the inner and outer this is what you submitted to it with your nose of intent um I mean I actually well I I guess it's now on the plan is really what I should be looking at yeah um I rather than having it separate okay I believe that the 6,000 number should pertain to the restoration area which we're keeping separate from mitigation and the 2863 I'm going to just cross off what's in your application apologies um no that's fine I just wasn't actually looking at that we were throwing a lot of numbers around um I don't see on the plan the trees that are coming out marked on the plan uh so usually we have that so we can make sure that the trees that you you say are coming out are you know on the plan are what's actually taken out and not others you usually Mark any trees that are within the jurisdictional areas and you say you know there's this trees out you know put an X maybe you know this one's Cedar's coming out or whatever and you have another one that's staying in you know the ones with x's would be marked as removed so that we know and we can verify that what you say is coming out did and what you say is staying did because you know I saw things hanging off of some of the trees so I know they're coming out and I counted and it's 10 but um we need it on the plan okay um what else do I have uh I'm going to let somebody else go for now while I look it further anybody else Bob just a couple of quick questions uh so the current site doesn't have any irrigation correct uh the uh applicant who's in the audience might be able to speak to that since he has some history on the site hi for the record Joe D uh the there's no irrigation on the site but there was a a uh hoses put in years ago by my great aunt who previously in the property but it's not connected anymore we don't use it okay so there will be no new irrigation on the site nope it's permanent irrigation I should say um Can the uh mitigation areas be um uh demarcated with uh uh any material any uh edging or rock or anything like that especially like the the meadow area so it doesn't get mowed into um yeah yeah are there are there like uh certain types of fences or like a natural rock barriers Place placement of stones yeah so we could make it look natural just put placement Stones The Ed uh and there were when I visited the site there were invasives um on the back end of the property along the where the Cedars were uh I can't remember the invasives uh will those trees be removed now is that what you're proposing was it invasive tree species no they were they were red Cedars and they were probably some Vines growing through those will those trees remain or will they be removed uh so uh on our updated plan we'll definitely reflect the trees that are proposed to be removed um anything beyond um AC we did not include on the plan so there are that's probably the area that you're looking at and the area that's showed as um here's my pointer no you're good the area that's shown as as grading here which is um allowing for a more gradual descent um on the slope and that is an area that we didn't capture trees in but probably has some of those Cedars and potentially the the vine which I'm imagining is probably Bittersweet yeah Bittersweet so if they are going to be uh if if you're going to retain some of those trees if you could remove those uh invasive vines that would be something that I'd like to see yeah I agree yeah we could include that as a um a note in the order of conditions um which could be tied into the um I anticipate threeyear um observation of the mitigation and restoration areas also to to observe the um invas removal and track how it goes over those three years well just so you know the invasive removal is imp perpetuity just so you know because when you go for a certificate of compliance it will say that maintaining mitigation is in perpetuity as well as invasive management is there a limitation if it becomes something unmanageable I don't think on this site it is unmanageable but if in the case that the applicant shows um that they've put in um effort over the threeyear period and not seen a significant dieback is there a way to release them from it I don't understand the question about the invasives wh why do they have to remove vases if it's it's voluntary oh it's voluntary so then they're going to get hooked on three years if they volunteer and yeah I yeah that's that's a lot of money and is this part out of our jurisdiction where your vol arily like just clipping the invasives out of the ceders at the just cleaning up talking about outside our our area this area back here at the the far corner of the lot yeah I believe so that's outside of AC but there could be some on the edge you're just you're just cleaning it up a little bit so it looks better as long as it's have our jurisdiction I thought he was talking about in our area because there are trees that will remain in our area and I thought you were talking about that area to maintain it it's like uh Northwest uh of the house uh like like in the backyard oh okay very few of the trees in that corner due to the the necessary land clearing for the site will remain most of the trees that are within your jurisdiction that will remain are within the front part of the property um but that's why we're proposing to replace them with 11 trees within that mitigation planting area I'm looking forward to seeing the meadow when you guys have it up and running it'll be interesting to drive by and see what how that works and so you're intending to only cut it in the early spring in the late fall is that what it sounds like that's usually well you work with the aund I I do but not with plants I I'm a coastal water bird monitor but um yeah whatever whatever is recommended to maintain it as a meadow rather than letting it grow too wild or Too Tall right you don't want it to succeed to the next exactly the advice that I saw from ottomon and some other articles that I looked up recommended skipping that Spring MO because sometimes you can get early pollinators early birds that arrive um to do nesting or foraging they recommended mostly avoiding that summer so September or October would be an optimal time to mow that field to cut down any early successional species but not impact the species that are using it thank you yeah I think it'll be improve Improvement anything will be an improvement on a green mode lawn even though it wasn't irrigated it was paid green a very small house um I mean you've made all kinds of agreements um and I do agree that the uh the driveway should be paid going up um and you you got the parking lot now the parking area is uh perious um I mean I I I personally don't have an issue with this uh anybody else on the commission I know we have a hand up and I will call you after the others anybody else all right Mrs Whittle I'm sure you I see you have your hand up Miss Whittle can you hear me yes I can good afternoon I am Carolyn Wile you're wait a minute you're echoing I think you probably have your speaker on when you're speaking so you're echoing is that better yes it is is that better yes it is okay all right no good afternoon I'm Caroline whle a butter at 10:13 Orleans Road in response to bsc's letter of August 1st 2024 I'm in a disagreement that the proposed dwelling cannot be moved I'm also concerned that more trees than stated will be lost in the building of this proposed dwelling that being said I have two main concerns today the first is the execution of fulfilling the mitigation plan the second is maintain in the current appearance of historical can you still hear Reverb we can and you're reverberating but I we all the commission did receive your your email and we all have read it so we are on a time crunch and we have five more properties to deal with so if you could summarize your concerns that would be appreciated okay so I also had corresponded on July 17th and I had a number of concerns I can just list those I it didn't you address the in our last meeting no because the applicant was not available and asked for continuance oh oh okay as as long as you can summarize because I'm going to I am going to have to hold you to five minutes because we we are in a time crunch okay so if I understand the plan correctly uh 10 trees are being removed 11 will be plann Ed and it looks like the 11 of them are all being planted uh along the highway and along the northern border and the northern border is my entire property line and that would um interfere with my water View and my property value uh I would invite the Conservation Commission and a representative from BC to come under my property and look at my concerns um um my neighbor who's also a co-a butter shares the driver with me is also um willing to work with BSC and the neighbors um I also have concerns about the environmental and historical value of that property um a lot being used for the proposed dwelling and a lot next to it have not just Environmental concern but uh value but significant historical value it's my understanding from conversations with the chadam historical commission that there have been recent updates to the townwide archaeological survey to conclude that there is document evidence of Pleasant Hill which is also known as Burial Hill and uh Indian Hill make contain archaeological resources can you still hear me yes okay um these two losts were adjacent to the Nickerson historical ceter at one point or part of it and also part of a really important archaeological dig which begs us to respect the land as it is the proposed development of this lot and the lot next to will be disturbing sacred ground of both preon Native Americans and our Town's found founder his family and their friends the abutters are reasonable people we want an amicable solution to the mitigation plan but we do not want to see any major changes to this historical property and destroying where a monument uh once stood and the tracks to the historical Cemetery means that chadam is condoning the loss of part of its Rich origin story and to me that is a shame I'll stop there because I think that's my five minutes um as far as this historical that it could have been a burial ground or whatever um have you you say the chadam Historical Society has has said that it is a historical site so I've done some research I've talking to I've talked to the Nickerson Family Association and I have talked to the Chad and historical um Commission and they have verified that it is a historic site I can address that go ahead Miss widow um the reason I'm asking is that um if the state AR archaeological uh society and or the Massachusetts historical can verify that for us we need a letter verifying that and that's not something we can ver can rule on because we have no way to know that um so we need something from a a archaeological or historical group that would verify what you're claiming so you would want me to secure something in writing from the state yes please okay and I believe homeowner would like to an uh respond to it as well yes the the three continuous lotss were have been in my family since the mid-70s and when the existing dwelling at 32 crosswind was built in s oh uh was built in the 80s um they actually did an archaeological dig that composed of I think at least two of the Lots if not all three and any relics any uh arrowheads and things like that that were found were donated to the Brewster Natural History Museum as the maluso collection okay thank you um so if you have something beyond that that would be helpful can I speak Madam chairperson yes hi Frank hi I'm sorry interrupt you that's okay I guess I'm wearing my um chairman of chadam conser chadam historical commission and and I've been watching your meeting for the last uh right two and a half hours so I'll try to be brief uh very simply oh I got a timer yes well it's interesting to watch another commission and see how you work and uh first of all it's not an historical society it's this chatam historical commission that's involved and it's Mass historical commission that involved and as the gentleman said yes a dig was done on this property and it did find archaological evidence of uh of Indian and pre-con uh pre-colonial uh artifacts in addition the historical commission uh this year Well actually was was last year completed an archeological survey update of the Town Complete survey of the complete town as well as a u hired a second archaeologist to do a survey of the historical cemeteries in chattam one which is adjacent to this property I don't know if it's contiguous anymore because the property has been subdivided so many times the Nicholson family uh dig Nickerson Family Cemetery which we believe not believe it's pretty well proven this potentially is the location of the an and William neckerson the original uh uh uh Homestead is to chat which you all know so we've done this survey the historical commission and U uh it was brought to my attention that there was a major development going to take place in this area where we do have archaological evidence of some historical significance and possibly burials in this area because that's what it was called uh so I think know you as the chairman of this commission and and I as chairman of the historical commission you know we've got an issue and a problem the town of chatam does not yet have a form of bylaw to protect private property to protect archaeological resources uh on public Andor private property uh we do uh do archaeological surveys when we're on public property we're private property here it's another situation uh we would love to have that um bylaw in fact the historical commission myself and the members of the commission are going to be working on a change to the by law so we could increase some authority to you the Conservation Commission myself and the historical commission and possibly the zoning board the commission when there is evidence and it's not like you dug up you know uh particular evidence but there's good evidence during the survey that this is an archaeologically sensitive area we want to let the owner and the developer know be careful okay generally I would say the proper way to do this which happens when there is an archaeological sensitive area which this is is that the owner before they put a shovel in the ground hires an archaeologist to do a specific survey to the property in question and if you do to find burials Indian I mean Indian burials or or in this case possibly even Colonial burials you stop and you you be careful how you do it right now if you put a shovel in the ground and you pick up a grave you call the police the police come in is it an Indian the Indian W tribe comes in they do some certain uh uh procedes and they put the they put the the the corpse right back in the ground but they don't let you build over it stuff like that so I guess you know I'm between t Twix and between here uh I'm here to least highlight the Conservation Commission at at the request of the owner of of of Miss HED you know no truth truth why I'm here that this area is sensitive and she has some family history that there was in fact a cemetery there or some remnants of a cemetery so how do we protect this I don't know uh it's a tough one and I would suggest to the people who were doing this subdivision and the build it that they hire an archaeologist now you could do that in your order of uh conditions you could ask them to hire an archaeologist to validate what we believe the survey and all these records are on on file with mass historic commission not any society it's the commission and they can validate the sensitivity of this area for uh for Colonial and pre-colonial going back maybe 5 10,000 years um sorry to be long-winded and uh I like that clock I think I can get one for the histor well we actually only are using it because we have to be off by four and we still have five properties to deal with so that's thank you FR much for listening to me thank you Miss Whittle do you have anything else wrap this up I'm I thank you Frank and thank you for that consideration my major concern based on the current report is the placement of the trees and the fact that have power lines and cable lines in that area to my home and I'm concerned about the digging there and the placement of 11 trees that come from the west west side versus the Eastern side of that property all right thank you Paul thank you you have your hand up quick real quick um we're on a time punch I'm going to run through these next uh ones as fast as I can um unlike some towns of Brewster where I live there is a local bylaw and in their local wel B they have archaeological uh interests um and performance standards we don't have that um this is a difficult situation because an allegation from a private property owner saying you know there's historical evidence here and then Frank just G on said there's some I'm not sure how you should proceed I think a letter from the state clarifying how we should proceed might be the way to go um I agree and uh we could take it from there okay and we're going to have to continue the same anyway because they have not even applied with zba yet have you right uh does uh application with the zba uh is it a requirement to issue an order of conditions we won't issue it until zba's approved the property approved if zbaa once they approve we could send it for an order but we will not write an order until zba has approved technically in order to hear any property which we don't we have not been adhering to because people like to hear our thoughts um if you you're supposed to have applied with all of the appropriate group you know departments in the town before we hear it so yes we do not that and you've if I think you've been sitting here most of the meeting we have planned orders to go after zba has approved so we will not even consider writing an order before zba hears it and I think you're going to be pretty far out um I think they're probably pretty much to October at least now from the feeling I'm getting from seeing when people are being heard who applied quite a while ago so we're going to have to continue this so when would you like we there are issues to be dealt with one miss whittle's going to get some sort of a letter to us is there a time frame on this as far as getting the letter I mean well no I mean yes the sooner the better um you're going to modify your plan to show the trees that're staying in and stay coming out within our jurisdiction um I think that's pretty much it so when would you like to continue this too uh certainly next week's hearing would be too soon per perhaps we could um tentatively be continued to the last Hearing in August and if we cannot um achieve the approvals we need from all chadam Municipal boards then we'll you won't have the approval but at least you will be scheduled if you apply to zba at least we'll know when it's going to be heard and in the meantime if you can modify the plan and if we get all of the things we can say we you know we think it's ready for an order P but not issue an order or vote to approve it till after zba okay I understand now all right then um if we could have a a spot on the last meeting in August sure we can do that yes are we ready yes we are I move that we continue zeroc crosswind Farm roow to the meeting on August 28th 24 for a notice of intent yep I second all right uh Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay thank you thank you all for your time all right Paul the next yeah we have the uh certificates of compliance next and and just let me add a note um I think I might make a call to um the state too because we've never had this historical issue come up yeah so maybe they can give us some guidance and we can do our own independent Research In addition to the U um research that she'll be doing right maybe we could also contact Mac yeah I agree um it's a sensitive issue and we should proceed absolutely we we need to be sure before we continue thank you you're welcome um so uh given the time crunch I'm going to um go through these certificates of compliance pretty quick I went through all the properties um yesterday um was here pretty late uh but in any event uh let's start up with 43 Shad Lane Ernest whan map 15c parcel 4 DSD number 10 3178 construction of a stone retaining wall and Lawn expansion this was an after the fact filing invasive species management and deck expansion um I uh went out to the site yesterday the gentleman who owned the property was there um uh there's a pretty Green Turf La there I asked him if the commission approved and after the fact uh Turf Lawn he said they did as well as the uh retaining wall was approved in the deck expansion um there are also markers for the 50ft buffer now this there's been cutting Beyond those down to a catwalk and he said to me you're going to be hearing from us soon on the catwalk so um I don't have anything on the file on that at this moment but um if the commission did approve this uh after the fact with this Turf laan which you guys don't do now um I would say that the application is complete um the checklist is filed everything's in order and we should approve uh the coc for 43 shad plan okay David do you have anything to add I don't need to say anything okay we can do a motion um yeah this this is a beautiful beautiful job was done here um I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 43 Shad Lane I second Paul hi Cheryl I Eric hi I say I okay next one next one 180 Wolford Road uh PCL B2 uh een sergus map 11g parcel B2 14-29 excuse me 219 n this is a local only CC construction of a single family dwelling went to the site yesterday um I think the landscape certification I didn't see that all the plants were robust um um maybe Eric went out and looked at it as well I'm not sure but um 95% them in good shape yeah um and uh I I don't have any issues with it the application is complete checklist um there I think there's some ongoing conditions that have been requested as well so I would recommend approval of the C with an ongoing um condition I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 180 Wolford Road parcel 82 I second it Paul hi Cheryl I Eric I I say I too okay next next yeah and normally everybody I'd I'd be in a lot more detail here but I know we're on a time crunch so uh next is 70 judges way ever enjoys uh using map 11b parcel 1B R6 D number SC10 3440 shorefront protection project this was a staircase a small area of shorefront protection with some juk netting placed into the bank um I went out out took a walk down everything looked good um it's stable and uh the application is complete the applicant has requested though that they have an ongoing condition which will allow them to do ongoing maintenance um to keep down invasives and um you know that's not consistent with the um let everything go natural kind of thing so if we could add that condition in I'd like i' like to do that um otherwise the application's complete and I recommend approval for 70 judges way with a full cooc uh you're going to get a hard no on this one from me okay uh I went down there and um I mean I'm starting to see this a lot I mean they even had Stakes still on the water's edge stuck in the ground um no one no one cleans up after themselves the stakes falling on the ground it's still if one of them Stakes breaks off someone steps on it with their bare feet and get to get injured uh you know they might look to who who who I I can't I I I couldn't say yes on this one until they go clean it up could we put that as a condition but I I would want to see I want to see proof I I don't want to because before and we we got into this with the temporary irrigation uh whether the beds are supposed to be mulched when they're supposed to be naturalized um and then they say oh yeah we promis we're going to go and clean up the uh temporary irrigation um I'd have to revisit the site and and see or or a picture like within you know by the next I can I can contact Ty Bon and um we could continue this for a couple of weeks until they can go clean it up um I will agree with you that the picture that was taken um I believe it was in June didn't look like a June picture to me uh it something was off with uh the documentation on the um photographs but having said that yep there's stakes in there that are left in there it is stable but I agree with you we could we could certainly continue this for a couple weeks and let them clean it up before we approve it reminds me of of people that pick up their dog feces they put it in the bag but then they throw the bag on the side of the road yeah all right so I move that we continue the certificate of compliance for 70 judges way August 28th 2024 I second it Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I okay next one Paul okay next one um 32 Seine uh Road uh the applicant is Paul M buan revocable trust of 2018 map 11 L parcel HC se10 3451 this was a project for restoration of native and Woody herbaceous plants removal of invasive non native and uh aggressive plants um uh again this the application is complete um checklist everything's been filed orders recorded um project description is accurate photos were submitted um unless Eric has an issue with this one I everything looked pretty good a pretty good job complaint yeah okay so I'd recommend approval for uh 32 cine uh for with the full COC and ongoing conditions I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 32 cine Road I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I all right last one we're going to make the deadline uh 23 Rover Run 23 Rover Run Mark and Jane Johnson trustees map 12 J parcel G6 D number SC10 3217 project was Demolition and reconstruction of a dwelling within the buffer zone to a culer bank a partial COC was issued in 8:14 2023 so we're just closing out the uh remainder um for the uh buffer zone Coastal Bank board um and again complete application good job application checklist complete um list of conditions ongoing um I've been getting really good um responses from the applicants with these uh requirements that we now have for cooc material so that we don't have to spend a lot of time going through the file so I again this is another one that I think should get a full COC and um is in compliance so I'd approve recommend approval of 23 run for a full cooc unless Eric has a problem I I do have a problem with this one okay um because I'll do it one more time but with this temporary irrigation I mean it means temporary right so the the irrigation the above ground pipes I mean the this place has irrigation heads on little one by one post rotten ready to fall over I mean you know we we we keep our end of the bo bargain I I look at these just as important as the initial uh order of conditions and it should be left in in the way the brochures show us uh you know how wonderful it's going to look afterwards uh but you know but I'll go ahead with this one but from now on these above ground irrigations because what happens is it becomes litter it's just trash and then what is the home the homeowner I could put into the COC that they have to take the uh temporary irrigation oh that's what I was just going to ask they don't yeah they don't have to no he's going to put it into the COC that they must oh okay all right okay well all right let's I'll do it um all right I I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 23 R run I second Paul I Cheryl I Eric I and I say I we have one more motion yes David go ahead thank you for that last COC and I when I go back to the office I will let the the Johnson's know that you graciously uh approved it and this is went the Rover Run yeah and tell them that uh good faith effort on their part to get the temporary irrigation out of their ASAP thanks David okay we have one more motion oh I move that we adjourn I second it Paul hi Cheryl I Eric I Bob I and I say I thank you everyone