e e e e e e e e [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon this is a hearing of the chadam Conservation Commission being held on April 24th wow 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of chadam wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my name is Janet Williams and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on Channel 8 and is being recorded for the on demand archives available on the town's website it's being conducted in person by phone and by video conference so the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents available for review have all been posted on the town website to all participants whether you're attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you've been recognized by the chair if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute by using star six if you're online and you haven't you're not a commissioner we ask that you please keep your camera turned off until you've been recognized uh you can indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature and when you are recognized please remember to identify yourself for the record before starting your comments or asking your question so that we have a record of a quorum attending today I'll now ask each commission member to indicate their presence Vice chair Karen Laton present Bob RS present Mary Sullivan is absent today uh Gordon present Cheryl mury present Eric Hilbert present Bob Delio present we have established that we have a quorum uh before we start and uh ask our conservation agent about any continuances I just want to pause for a moment and share the good news that um the town of chadam has appointed and has now started our first Wetlands permit coordinator who began work this week and so we are Beyond thrilled that Crystal Keon has uh accepted this good one welld deserved and uh promotion so congratulations Crystal and for everybody who's going to have permit applications you're going to have to deal with Crystal so uh be nice to her um so that's that's very good news um before we begin uh Paul um Whitman our uh conservation agent do we have any requests for continuances today thank you madam chair good afternoon Commissioners we do have two requests um the first one will be the airport um I'll read that legal ad when we get to it quickly that will be continued to May 8 okay 2024 and we just received a request uh for a continuance to May 8th 2024 for 70 Meadow View Road South okay thank you very much Paul so if you're here for either of those they are not going to be heard today um and with that um Paul will uh lead us through today's agenda thank you madam chair I just want to say um Mr tundran is it your your camera's on and you're you're uh taking up half the screen so I don't know if you can hear me it looks like he's muted um he is but he's reacting so it looks like he's okay looking for the button to turn off the looking for the where's the video off button okay well let's proceed okay um first on the agenda is uh six is a uh request for an order of condition I conditions the address is 16 cine Road Edwood F Acton map 11l parcel 2- hc3 se10 3673 propose project raise existing dwelling construct new house and detach garage and pool patio and a Land Management plan that's the project okay thank you um so we've had a copy of the draft order available um some people have already added some changes and we accepted all those yesterday so the version that was posted on my town go was the most up todate um there is um and I think I'll ask Bob about this there are some items that are highlighted which indicates that uh things that you have questions about or things that we need to clarify today yeah when I when I dve to this we didn't have what I now see is the updated coverage table so I believe that the number in the that's in there is correct 3325 Square ft in the outer Aura y okay take that out is that in there so and that and that accounts for 44.3% that part all I I just had in my notes and maybe th can confirm that percentage number that Al Southeast confirmed 44.3% in the outer Aura thank you and then and in the special conditions I highlighted the I added the word restoration to mitigation because there was no mitigation offered but restoration was offered as mitigation and so it seemed appropriate to modify our stand conditions for mitigation to include restoration since it isn't technically mitigation yeah we do that I mean that that comes up sometimes and and I have the same reaction when I look at it and try to add the RO restoration so you I'm going to accept all of that um all right any questions or comments from commission [Music] members no I think got it okay uh Thad anything from uh the applicant side on this one we were good okay okay anybody else online or on the phone or in the room here have anything uh they want to say about this order hearing none I'm accepting all changes and I'll take a motion to I move that we close the close and approve the order of conditions for 16 C Pine Road Gordon second obviously still away roll call vote Bob I Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that's unanimous veryone here all right thank you Thad thank you all right Paul where do we go next okay next on the agenda Madam chair 62 Chase Street uh Cara mangoni map 16 C parcel 54 C7 the EP number SC10 3667 project is expansion of existing deck and relocate and replace a generator this is a request for an order of conditions okay thank you um same same deal with this one it's been available uh it was posted on My Town go the copy I have has a couple of uh typo Corrections um and a new uh a new special condition has been added I'm not sure if this is in the copy that was posted special condition for the existing lawn in the ndz between the mitigation area and the Eastern property line will be allowed to naturalize and I anybody here for them because I that was for my notes and I I just wanted to get confirmation if that was the understanding I had that down as well so I think it is correct no more mowing that's I had that down to add it yep it's fine okay other commission members questions comments concerns about this anybody online on the platform hearing none let's take a motion motion to close this I move with we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 62 Chase Street Gordon second roll call vote uh Bob I leise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I that's approved and the last one Paul last one on the agenda Madam chair 414 Fox Hill Road Christopher lroy map 11m parcel 5-2 D number SC10 3652 project is proposed do replacement uh good afternoon Cole baitman uh is the principle person here okay he's online I have a couple of comments um why don't you uh go ahead fire away under the uh construction uh paragraphs paragraph 10 page 11j uh talks about storm water controls and things like it's a house it just seems inappropriate construction yeah paragraph 10 which do you know which section standard pre-construction no construction no construction okay run off from proposed heartscape areas roof run off got it I see it okay well you know that this all these General condition sections start with the language that says they apply as applicable so um if don't apply it ain't applicable but we'll take it out and then my old Bugaboo there on the general yeah this this is not anything in the uh anywhere on the Coastal Bank that it's not a house so those Provisions would not apply 11 and 12 yeah y yep okay is that it for you that's it for me Cole hi good afternoon Cole bman from T Bond I have just one um comment or suggestion for the commission for special condition three um regarding the treatment and allowable treatments for the excuse me for the timber it is written in the or in the draft order the support structure in the pilings permanent removable will be constructed of treated wood and then in parenthesis it says CCA um I suggest that it be inclusive of MCA treated treatment as well please it's a um that's the treatment um that is most commonly used for like the handrail components where CCA can't be uh in contact with human um with with with hands so like the handrail posts for instance thank you so wait so you're saying that MCA and just just because I'm not intimately familiar with these terms what exactly is what is is it like the others chromium or or copper or ar um yeah correct cor yeah um MCA does not contain arsonate um okay uh but it's it's a lesser treatment compared to CCA but we we need to use it for components of the pier here for the structural pieces for the for the railing for the railings um so no the railings the decking the decking is going to be untreated natural Timber right and that would include the railing we could add that rail the the decking all of that will be uh non-treated right um Timber but you know for the handrails themselves and the stringers where for the structural components those would be um MCA or CCA please I see so the so the the the um vertical supports for the handrails is what you're talking about that do not come into contact correct thank you all right and just out of curiosity have have you guys thought about the um what the natural Timber that you're going to be using on this is we're just learning more about this these days where uh I think we're there where most likely the client will be going with an eBay product okay okay that'll work okay questions or comments from commission members no um did we uh mention anything about taking uh pre and post photos of the marsh area because you know this has been there for over 50 years we're just the only reason we're getting in other conditions uh is it it's never had an order conditions but there's been a peer there since 1933 yeah you're going to have new construction taking place though correct caller I it's just just replacing what's there hello somebody needs to mute please on who's on the platform taking a call how far how it's adjacent to the salt marsh do you how far away is the salt marsh from the structure I mean right there something would it be would I think we could put in a requirement and ask you once the construction is done to submit photos of the completed that include the salt marsh so we can see that the salt marsh is not has not been impacted okay yeah that'd be good thank you okay and and also uh what about uh uh winter storage of the U is that in uh anything yeah I think it's off offsite or oh yeah number 16 yeah I see it okay thank you all right anybody else on the platform or on the phone on in the hearing just touching on that last one Cole from T Bond um offsite was mentioned just there but we would believe it's appropriate to store um the floats and the float materials and the parking area at the house would that be acceptable it's it's as long as that's an up area that's fine yeah it's on the up side of the house yeah that's off the all right yeah yeah yep thank you okay okay there are no other questions or comments Let's uh move forward and uh approve thisk much we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 414 Fox Hill Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leas I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that's been approved thank you very much thank you Cole thank you thank you have a great day thank you all right Paul onward to uh the next matter on the agenda which are two a join two yes the uh extension request and I'd like to read these both together because the extensions uh dates are the same and it's the same uh while their uh addresses are next to to each other yep with your permission yes okay 237 Woodland Way Woodland way nominee trust map 11k parcel hc48 SC10 3487 dwelling and restoration extension request to monitor plantings and ensure that they have time to establish and mature the the order expires on 713 2024 so the extension will bring it to 713 2025 okay 263 oh go ahead sorry yep yep yep sorry 263 Wen way Wen way Nomine trust map 11k parcel HC 49 SC10 3486 dwelling pool and restoration uh the extension is requested to monitor plantings and ensure they have no excuse me that they have time to establish and mature this order expires also on 713 2024 and the extension will take it to 713 2025 all right thank you so uh Paul for either of these this is their first request for an extension right yes okay and I'll note that uh the extension request actually did request two two years extension but um we are unable to do that we'll have to do one year and then uh they can come back 2025 uh and requested a second year if they need it we're happy to provide extensions usually for uh budget to continue to get itself established I have a question yep is this is this the property that has the big fence in the front along the road I couldn't no I couldn't even find these things okay never mind huh I don't think so no I don't remember that I a feel look though okay all right um so ready for a motion then for this I move that we approve a one-year extension to July 13 2025 for the properties 237 Woodland way and 263 wouldn't then way Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that's been approved what's the next one then Paul next one is an extension request for 5117 Stony Hill Road uh Kate Earls map 15 I parcel 21 d SC10 3483 project new Belling and Land Management plan it expires on seven excuse me May 7 7 2024 I don't have a reason for this one but I assume it's uh regarding the establishment of the Land Management uh planting so the if you approve it it'll take it out to uh May 7th 2025 okay there is a reference um it's not entirely clear in the in the request letter to uh ongoing invasive species management and and restoration plantings so um I agree that's what it's for and there's been no other extension on this one right no I don't believe so okay I move that we approve 517 Stony Hill Road to with for a one-year extension to 57 2025 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that's approved all right what is next on the agenda then Paul next on the agenda Madam chair is a uh uh submitted request for a field change the address is 63 tap and drive Andy Bor map 8B parcel T2 d se10 3574 project demolish existing dwelling and reconstruct new dwelling Pool and Patio the field change request is to include a previous paer walkway to connect their walk out to the pool steps to the deck and finish the area under the deck with gravel okay um um I could have sworn that Phil Cheney was sitting here a few minutes ago that was bad timing probably can continue without hi I'm laor Smith one of the other owners with oh hi Hi how are you good all right so can um can you just walk us through what the what the en you should you should have a letter from Phil and the plan and we just just you know we're almost done with the project and we realize that our kids are going to walk out the back of the basement onto dirt and they're going to drag it into the pool so we'd like to put a uh gravel on the doors on the exit of the basement and then have a few stepping pavers over to get to the pool it's all underneath the deck this is all under the deck okay so there's photographs so that photograph of the you can't see it on my computer this is actually SP we're talking about you got to go back you have to be on the microphone okay we're that's the space we're talking about okay Bob's GNA uh share his screen in a second to show the picture was part of this so part of this area under the deck had been slated for a walkway and this is extending it or was we actually it was never we oh forgot to put anything on there okay okay so so I don't want it to be dirt and I don't think grass will grow underneath there so if we could have just a little space in order to take them and then the rest would be just seated with the Cape Cod seated mix yep that was requested okay anybody have questions yeah I to yeah I do I need excellent idea to put gravel under a deck it's the only way to Goble it drains quickly yeah y Bob yeah so when I went over there uh yesterday gravel was already into the deck yes they did put a down there okay yeah and you want to have a walkway from the slider uh going towards the left to the pool to where the stairs come down from the pool right yes and that's going to be just uh slate or I don't even think slate but some of the you know just the Stepping Stones over nothing formal just so the kids can get in and out and underneath that first landing uh coming off the deck down the stairs underneath that first landing there's a space y if you're going to put a walkway if you have any excess gravel you could put that gravel underneath underneath that first landing there's a okay Square there yeah yeah that's a good idea actually um I didn't know if we were allowed to do that given how close we are yeah I mean it's bare right now and there there's some wood actually wood in there too some debris that has been thrown in there yeah that will attract termite you want to get that out of there before you put the the uh the gravel down yeah they're supposed to be cleaning out all the construction stuff today yeah okay thank you that's all I have good anybody else all right ready for a motion then I move the we approve the field change request for 63 tap and drive Gordon second roll call vote Bob all Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that's approved thank you thank you very much thank you for being here at the right moment all right Paul uh what is the next thank you madam chair next on the agenda we're now going to move to a request for determination of applicability the address is 236 stage Neck Road Edward C and Joyce h q map 10B procles 8B r- 24-18 project is removed eight non-native trees and replant with native plants okay hello hi good afternoon Teresa spr with blue flx design here in behalf of Ed and Joyce Huff um is there last name yep nope that's fine um ter names to no it's that's a hard one I M made the mistake myself at first um the um proposal really is to remove eight trees although five of them are within jurisdictional area three of them are just outside of the 100t buffer zone um these are existing um Crypt Maria Japanese Crypt Maria trees um they're right up against the um existing patio and when they were planted I'm sure they were just a lovely sized tree that fit beautifully um in this site next to this patio and of course now they've reached maturity and they've completely overgrown the area um as you know J Japanese Crypt Mar get quite large um and um they've started to grow into the patio area covering up um the little outdoor kitchen kitchen space so we are proposing to um remove those Crypt tomary trees they're just too big for the site and to replant the area with um American holly um and two different size classes 7 to8 foot B&B and 8 to 10 foot um B&B as well as plant a number of um shrubs and Native perennials butterfly milk weed um aachi and um some switchgrass um panicum V in this area um this is simply to um to plant something in here that's actually going to fit and improving the area for Habitat value by replacing a non-native tree um with a native tree I think Japanese crypto areas are great they're noninvasive they don't cause any harm in this case they're just too big for this for the location right tree and the wrong place correct in some way yeah no it's uh they are enormous no doubt they are big um and uh I like the the Hol and the VAR variation in the sizes and that they will all grow to provide the screening from correct the neighbors there and the shrubs are all in all an improvement yes um I would complain about about lawn replacement but that's out of our it's out of our jurisdiction um but anyway questions concerns comments why are you only replacing with four trees when five are coming out in the juristic again we're just trying to fit the right trees into the space um and allow them to grow to their mature size um without overcrowding each other and we were hoping that um by planting additional native shrubs and perennials and grasses that that would offset that additional tree um we just couldn't fit five trees into the location how do we feel that's it okay well un austo as I am to being a contrarian I think they're beautiful trees I know that they're not native and they to me if I had those trees and that that this is my picture that I took um I I would keep them just because I think they're beautiful and they they're not too big for the space in my view but it's also that's you know that's a subjective opinion right so anyway that's the way they struck me when I looked at them I I saw no reason to take out those quite beautiful mature trees anyway that's just me I do think they have been cutting them back um and and they haven't actually reached mature size yet so they're going to continue to get larger um so I think that's why they just don't want to cut them back anymore they don't want to they don't want them to get any bigger than they are but I agree with you they're beautiful trees Japanese Crypt Maria are great trees and they really withstand um some harsh sight conditions um even when some of our native seedar do not Japanese crypto Maria do stand up to harsh um salt and wind conditions I don't think I don't think they're going to be happy when those are gone anyway they'll have to make that determination tremendous screening not only from The View but from wind and from other things but you know yeah I understand your concerns yes but from an environmental perspective it's uh I think it's the only environmental loss is the loss of the carbon that's sequestered in them anyway go ahead Bob yeah I planted one of those after my father died in my yard so but anyway um you you're going to need male and female they are yes we will have male and female okay and the rose of Sharon is coming out too um the rose of Sharon I believe is coming out as well yes that is a good question I see it in this picture um it is not noted on the plan but we are planting that whole entire area with the isix gabra and the perennials okay thank you oh actually Bob we are showing that Rose of Sharon so there's one two three one two three four five that Rose of Sharon is I think included that we're seeing in the front in our count of five coming out of that area oh there it is it's it's it's right it's forward yes that's what I count I thought I counted four trees think maybe the fifth is back behind there somewhere but there's the rose of there is a Rose of Sharon yes yes so that's coming out it is coming out as well yes thank you I have I have just simple question how you going to water the above ground there'll be drip irrigation is this going to be a mulch formal bed or is it going to be a natural bed it's going to be a natural bed in that our goal will be once the perennials get in and the grasses get in it fills in over time there will be initially be some mulch in the bed just to help hold down weeds and keep water in okay thank you any other anything else and I think we are ready for a vote for a see if I get this right negative3 determination buffer zone I move that we approve approve the request for determination of applicability with a negative3 determination for 236 stage Neck Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob well I'm voting no I don't know exactly how to vote no on which way do I vote on an art art it's it's a we're approved negative determination so you want you would vote for a positive yeah for I'm no I'm voting no okay got it Elise do I vote no are you in favor are you approving this appr yes yes okay yes chyl yes Karen yes Eric yes I'm a friend moving and and and I vote Yes so that's uh one two three four five and one okay thank you thank you all right Paul um read the next continuance yes the the next one is uh we moved on to notice of intents this is a long legal ad this one has been continued to May 2024 but here I go 240 and 438 George Ridder Rogue 1652 Main Street chattam municipal airport maps 9 f240 10g 438 AE 1652 main Parcels 0-2 24018 K1 438 53 - 27652 main SE number SC10 3658 the proposed project includes vegetation management required to remove obstructions within the navigable excuse me navigable airspace in compliance with the Federal Aviation FAA regulations veral pool consultant decision and vote is pending performance standards and resource areas are pending and variance requests are pending and it will be continued to May 8th 2024 all right thank you motion to approve I move that we continue 240 and 438 George Ryder Road and 1652 Main Street to the meeting on May 8th 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise I Cheryl hi Karen hi Eric hi and I vote I too so that's to the eth all right Paul what's next just for the record that was a request from the applicant okay next on the agenda is 21 Shad Lane clay a Rosenberg and Andrea Lynn Flink map 15c parcel 12-6 se10 3671 the project is a proposed house addition pool replacement landscape and Associated site improvements okay good afternoon for the record yep go ahead Sean Riley postal engineering now tying Bond Sean pich is on the call with me as well and I'm not sure if Ben Zender is on the call as well um there was some question last time about the permitting track of the swimming pool uh and whether or not it had actually gone through the correct um path for permitting and uh so we went down to the town hall and went through the records met with the zoning enforcement officer uh went through all the records and uh found that there was correspondence in there from Kristen Andre's uh back in 2003 and that's what I'm sharing on the screen for the work that was done in the pool patio um and she notes in the record that uh there is a Coastal Bank at the site uh it's not shown uh in the records as being delineated however it appears to be outside and the reason for that is that um up until 2014 the uh flood maps the flood elevation for this property was elevation 9 which is actually elevation 8 um on today's datm on ngbd or sorry nebd 88 um so the associated Coastal Bank at that time can everybody see my screen with the uh the map not yet you're not sharing okay let me just share that real quick okay how about now yep we go so you can see the flood zone in 2014 and prior to 2014 was down at elevation uh 8 um so the 100 feet buffer from that uh was actually outside of where the shed is located so the sheds 110 ft of where that Coastal Bank would have been uh and the pool is uh further away from that so uh that is why there you wouldn't see a permit in the file um as this work if it were done we were doing now was in 2013 uh would be outside of that jurisdiction and I think that correspondence was um submitted to Paul as well so just before we start with the rest of it just wanted to see if there was any questions on that um that respect or that regard right and we did included in that we did see the original uh permit building permit for the pool itself uh 1966 correct yeah and then a 1991 um Spa permit and then end deck and then the 2003 so thank you for doing that research that uh answers our questions about when and how these were these were constructed um anybody else have questions or comments on the historic record okay okay okay so I've switched over to the actual proposed plan now uh and where we're at can everybody see the proposed plan that shows the where the existing Red Line Fence is now and the Green Line Fence of where we've pulled it back to make sure I'm Shar on the right screen yep yep y okay so essentially um after a couple of meetings with you there was concern about where the fence would be located um so we pulled the fence back back and tucked it in close to the um the proposed reconstructed uh pool area um as you can see by uh what we're zoomed in on here is the the red is actually the part of the pool that exists now that we're taking out the green is the small addition that we would be adding outside of the footprint um there really wouldn't be any mitigation required as it's a reduction in coverage uh within the um 50 to 100t buffer weing bringing the fence back and on the which uh Sean reviewed with you last time uh they've added quite a few uh supplemental um plants along the uh the area within the buffer zone immediately adjacent to uh the shed so I think with the question of the permit and with pulling the fence back in the addition of the plantings um I'll open it up to any other potential questions you may have all right thank you can you just confirm for us the plan you were just showing do we have we don't have that one you don't have it with all the colors on it I just put those on there I could submit that to you for the record that was just to kind of yes absolutely so what where do you can you tell us offand where we end up in what the overall coverage reduction is yes that should be I think it's Sean do you have that handy I don't have that actual number whatever that whatever the uh difference between the green and the red there is is all it is so we' have a reduction yeah I think it was a couple hundred square feet 22 ises that sound right to you that that sounds about right correct there it is that's up uh okay so that's still the same yes it's 252 okay all right the amount of square footage of the plants that we're showing within the 50 to 100 is around 6 60 square ft um I know that we didn't have to put a number on that but that's about where we are with those so so since mitigation is technically not required do you want us to refer to um these plants and this plan as restoration or mitigation it's not it's really restoration of the of the buffer zone yeah you could you could if we're not going to bank it or not get credit for future projects then we could just call it restoration yeah okay we don't do credits for future projects someday Maybe but we're not there yet um all right open up to questions from commission members reactions yeah um that mitigation if it's not required on that bank but next to that Japanese not weed yeah um I'm wondering if you're just wasting your time because you you'd have to have a serious um program for that Japanese not not not weed otherwise you're just throwing your money away planting the anyway yeah if it if it's not going to be required we we don't have to actually do it um they're going to die anyway they're going to they're going to have a battle that's for sure that's just my thought I mean I it's always nice to have mitigation plantings but if it's they're just going to die because if you're not going to take care of the Japanese knotweed you're just going to kill them all is there anything is there any way of of I mean it's steep so a mo strip isn't necessarily going to work in that steep uh slope there is there any other kind of thing that can be done to to manage the knotweed from not moving into this well it will be wall there there's some wall that uh will be in that location so that will be a barrier to it right and I think if the the not weed you know is more aggressive and starts to take over that the the homeowner um may want to take that opportunity to uh to come up with a more extensive plan to go after it all uh because if you don't go after it all um you know as was just stated it's it's an ongoing Battle For Life um with with that so is comment really you've got to go after everything uh the area that you disturb building the wall um on the water side what are you going to do with the disturb soil if you didn't plant you'd have to what put J netting down maybe some yes natural seed or something get something growing before the not we take over um I just know that not weed is just very aggressive unless you really have a big program for it right right major commitment yeah we could blanket and seed that slope any of those Expos exposed slopes can be uh blanketed and seeded I suggest you keep the restoration and that'll be motivation to take care the not we right if you're if you invest what you're proposing here in creating that area then that is motivation to because in three years you have to show that the restoration survived I agree okay I think we we I think we we we are ready to go ahead and schedule this for in order of conditions is there anything else we're waiting for I don't think so that was the last of it so probably can do it for next week yep I move that we continue 21 Shad Lan to the meeting on May 1st 2024 for an order of conditions Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I too uh we'll see you back here next week for an order of conditions very good we'll get that plan over to thank you very much thank you very much thank you all right bye now bye all right Paul all right what's next next on the agenda is a notice fent 55 lenel Lane Pamela P Kindler map 16 I parel 1 A- R2 the EP number se10 3664 the project is propose swimming pool and patios alteration of an existing septic system minor location change for an existing shed hi I'm Lauren Cronin I'm the landscape architect with Gregory Lombardi design and Bob Perry with me okay um so uh when we were here last on April 3rd I think you had asked for a few um relatively minor revisions to the plans we've made those and resubmitted the plans to you um we updated the language on the proposed mitigation planting plan to um specify that all invasive and non-native plants would be taken out of the um area to be cleared and replanted um and we added a note about um that there would be temporary irrigation installed in these areas and that the existing irrigation system would remain and its um whatever portions of the property are undisturbed um and we also ified the mitigation planting area for you which is um 4,280 ft so you have that information on the plants that's all I changed okay so I had a few things to do myself and uh I'll bring you up to date on that one of the things that was part of the application is the checklist table and we were requested to update that so we've submitted that chart and in it we reflect 159 square foot reduction after going through um Lauren's plans and then looking at the updated mitigation we changed the chart to include the 4,280 square feet of mitigation um so we had a 518 square foot net change instead of the 6 some OD then the second thing had to do with the shed plural and I I will say that um the aerial photography was somewhat revealing I have not done an exhaustive search on the third shed which is the one near the driveway that appears to have come into being I think sometime between the late 70s and the um early 1990s because it doesn't appear on the 1952 or the 1971 aerial um the small shed near the driveway is U there what I want to clarify is um in 1952 The Shed that we're working on is actually there and that caused me to look after that a little bit more and so I just wanted to clarify something that given the age of it and um the substructure uh in our notice of intent we basically said that well it's going to be put on posts and it's not appropriate I think it's appropriate for me to clarify for you that it's basically a simple Foundation because it's a shed but it's it's continuous and so um it's not appropriate to take that shed as it is with its age and just put it on a post foundation so there's a clarification that I wanted to make that in looking after those sheds that was a recommendation that I'm making to the Builder uh so that is the sheds the third shed by the driveway the the the larger shed that's at the end of the driveway I haven't found a permit for that but it's it's you know it's 20 30 30 or more years old and I just want to also say that all sheds as they are now were present when the Kinders purchase the property but we can still look for the you know we can scour the building department records we haven't done that well we see that we see that it was in existence in 2002 yes and the land subject to Coastal storm Flowage bylaw came into effect in 2013 right the predates that right so it seems safe uh from our point of view yeah okay I'm just track I'm looking at all these changes that you're just running through uh let me open up to questions numbers the only question I have is behind the little shed uh there's some Lumber and a Old Bridge may you know those could be removed yeah the area is going to get cleaned up yeah uh Bob that so that small shed by the entrance of the driveway to the right of the drive driveway that's going to is that you say it's anchored down well I the applicant indicated to me that it has never moved with all of the storm action if it's not it can be and I have not confirmed that it is anchored it shows up on the 1952 photo as well is it it's safe to say that it's on the Coastal Bank though correct no it's kind of in that flood zone Plateau at the elevation of the driveway um at the elevation of Lenell Lane it's it's gotten wet before okay so you don't think it's a hazard the way it is now I don't think it's been shown to be a hazard um there's enough work going on here that I think that shed could be easily anchored if it's not and okay if um if you want us to look into that we'd be happy to do it I'd like you to look into it myself yeah would that be like an administrative thing I could consult with Paul that we're going to screw some helical anchors and strap the building down if it's not anchored and I would approach it that way just make part of the order we can just put it into the order that way that you'll go through that process yes okay other questions or comments all right then I think this is ready for scheduling for an order and we might as well do this next week I move that we continue 55 lenel Lane to the meeting on May 1st 2024 for an order of conditions Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I okay see you next week for an order thank you very much thank you very much thank you all right Paul okay Madam chair next on the agenda is that continued item 70 Meadow View Road South Kyle and patri lissac map 10B parcel 16- S15 D number SC10 3668 project is proposed addition proposed attached garage and proposed deck reconstruction including mitigation the applicant requested continue to May 8th okay I move the that we continue 70 Meadow View Road South to the meeting on May 8th 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob I Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I that's approved why is word not all right Paul um want you to take us to what's next cuz I'm having a last item yeah last notice intent before we get to minutes and closing out is 486 Shore Road 486 Shore Road LLC map 16f parcel A7 SE number 10 3678 is the number that's been assigned recently uh the project is elevated stairs to a beach over a Coastal Bank and I believe Susan's here to uh answer questions and we have people in the room as well so hi good afternoon Bill Riley on behalf of 46 sh Road LLC uh Teresa prag with PL Flex design also here on behalf of the Murphy Lynn family and Susan Leo from Eastward companies thank you all right thank you who's gon to lead off the um Paul pointed out and I apologize for having missed it uh that the stairs uh extend out past the toe of the bank onto the beach and the uh that's really a product of failure to educate we have a new engineering firm we're using uh strong fellow engineering and uh and so we didn't tell them our usual protocols which would be you know ends at the the bottom of the hill and and the bottom section of the stairs has to be either removable or capable of being lifted out of the way to avoid U damage in during winter Gales or or hurricanes well yeah you know um okay so um that's going to be pulled back to the toe of the bank there right we're going to uh we'll submit uh modification of either modification of the plan or a sketch plan detailing um how we're going to you know how are we going to either have a removal section or a section we can fold up or well or or both because the the the section that extends onto the beach extends across a very flat Beach area so it's unnecessary um and and intrusive so I think what we'd like to see is that piece removed um and then we're going we'll have the we'll have the stairs end at the toe of the bank at the toe of the bank right okay and I don't yeah at that point and that may or may not have a removable seasonal element to it sometimes they do sometimes they don't but as long as it's not extending onto the beach um yeah it's not uh it's not a highwave environment because of the turn Island you know forming a protective barrier there but so far so far but anyway something we'll discuss with the engineers okay when they modify the plan okay okay um just for the context for everybody just to review because this property has been this is the third or fourth I I'm losing track um notice of intent that it's gone through um no it's a second well was there was was did this property originally have a previously existing fiber roll aray that was washed out one it's the other one next door okay so this is just the 2019 Coastal Bank project that so this is be the third in 2019 the Coastal Bank the fiber roll installation was done in conjunction with 498 sure that extended onto the northern part of this yes okay so yeah and that was closed out I think an order of certificate of compliance was issued and then you app we we weren't involved with that that was a prior owner okay yeah I know right it was I remember so but then there's um last year's order for the demolition of the house in the pool and the construction of the new house in the pool which was uh involved a mitigation and restoration of the top half of the bank correct um and now this is a new noi for the stairs and the mitigation is the restoration of the bottom half of the bank so I guess my question is why why is this two separate nois um as opposed to an amendment when the mitigation restoration is so closely connected well we thought it was a good idea that's about it I mean it was just you know we didn't really you know we because the the principal focus of the prior order had to do with the house right you know and we we tend to think of amendments as being related to the prior order in seem like really a separate concept so that was how we ended up with a separate [Music] order but what I really would like to see is the two mitigation restoration plans in a single plan because that work will all be done at one time right well we've already started the invasive species management for the open order of conditions that's currently existing for the house reconstruction so if you've been out to the site that actually allowed us open that area up because before it was inaccessible um so we've started the invasive species removal that area has been seated stabilized blanketed um and that allowed um for the staking of the stairs um for the new proposal um and really allowed us access to the bank that we had not had previously um even to the point where we designed the what you're seeing in front of you right now um because there's a significant amount of native vegetation that we had not mapped that's still intact on the Coastal Bank and will remain intact we're showing in a darker green area an area of Beach Plum and Bayberry um that we are and again it was an area approximate based on the assessment that we could do at the time without access to the bank there's actually quite a bit of scrub Oak um and cherry on the bank that's healthy and intact that will remain so there's quite a bit more native vegetation than we had initially thought um we are still proposing to do invasive species management selectively and rest ation of the shrub layer um as well as the service Berry and add some additional um scrub Oaks onto the slope um but we um I I think that by us undertaking that first portion of the invasive species management really opened up an opportunity for us to get down and do a better assessment of the conditions of the bank itself but I but in response direct response to your question putting all the mitigation work on a single plan I think is 100% yes I just wanted to make sure sure the commission was aware that we have already undertaken the initial phase of theive species management and that's what you're seeing on the screen okay that's what yeah so that's the blanketing yes exactly and the removal of the white popler okay go ahead Bob go yes Bob has questions just because it's my picture um so C said it I was taken back I don't know if this is what I think looking back the original plan there was nine trees coming out there was no count on the trees coming out the white popper were um pretty extensive throughout that area as well as the um invasive shrub honeysuckle in Bittersweet so of course you're looking at this it's been entirely seated and then that whole area will be restored I think that's the plan that we don't have in front of or you don't have in front of you right now um but there will be without a doubt a connection in the restoration so that the entire 50ft buffer top of coastal bank and then the coastal Bank itself will be restored all as one piece once the um once this work is completed I I I I grasp that part what I my notes say from the previous noi that there will be nine trees coming out and so when I looked at this this looks like clear cutting U my memory is we talked in general terms about removing all the white popers we did and I'm looking at the plan right now and we had um restoration of 7,400 square ft which included um removal of lawn and the removal of invasive species that you're seeing in that area that's been blanketed um and there is no that we're planting back 14 trees as part of the initial approved plan but there's no count of trees to be removed um we were showing what we could locate with x's um on the plane and those were actually the native trees that were in poor condition if you recall there were number of spruce trees um that had been planted we did not count the poppers um a we didn't have access over the fence um and B the um the we did we just didn't have a count on those so the X's that you're looking at on the plan include Pitch Pine and Spruce trees um that were coming out all right well it was a misunderstanding to say the least so so all of the stumps that were shown in that photograph are either Woody shrubs or white popler correct yes they it was it was it was thick with white popler yes there are again in the areas where we're showing the ex's those were um some spruce trees that were in really poor condition on the north side of the house there was a Pitch Pine um that was broken and in very poor condition um but all we've removed are the trees that were approved for removal as well as the invasive white pop trees at the top of the bank and is that because the the the extent and the density of the invasives was such that they could not be identified individually and we couldn't get over the fence it was so thick there was a chain link fence across that area if you recall and it was so thick with Vine um and the trees that we we couldn't get over the fence until the fence was removed and we were actually able to get in there and do the work but again I want to remind the commission that we are planting back 14 trees in this area so we're not leaving this I know I I know this when when we do the initial work and we're blanketed and it looks very bare it's a little bit scary looking um but I I think you've seen from previous plans projects that we've done that this is very quickly re regenerates um and is um restored so I guess with the lower part it'll similarly be CER no because there's a lot more native vegetation as we as we find often in areas of disturbance so where the the um chain link fence was constructed and where they had been planting trees in the past I don't know when the white popers showed up maybe they were planted on purpose at some point just like most of the invasive vegetation that we have is planted I don't know but as we get further down the bank and if you were able to walk down a little ways it's actually a really great native plant Community um there's certainly room for us to plant what we're proposing to plant in there to create a more dense planting um but we don't have quite the level of invasion that we had at the top of the bank I think we estimated at the time approximately 40% on the Coastal Bank itself I think that number is even lower I think it's closer to 25 30% invasive on the bank in the lower section down in in the section that we're looking at right now with the um for the bank restoration right and then there's a section that's where the fiber rolls were installed that has the so there is a small there is a low stone revetment at the toe of this Bank um in that area to the South I believe the fiber rolls only extend a short way into the northern portion of this property um and there's no significant scarping we know that the bank is still acting as a sediment Source even though it's revetted it's a low revetment it is still feeding the beach um and that's something um David Clark and I had talked about quite extensively when we did the original application um and we both agree that it is acting as a sediment source and we'd like it to continue to act as a sediment source to the beach okay um are the stairs I think when I was there I it was it seemed to me that the stairs are crossing where the fiber rolls are they may well be and that's that's so is there isue is there any particular um measures that need to be taken so that they're not damaged in some way with the installation of the support structure for the stairs yes I think we're going to have to be careful of the fiber rolls when the stairs are installed but stairs are are certainly installed over fiber roll arrays all the time and it has no negative impact yeah okay okay so and they are planted with that area is planted with beach grass is that just going to stay the way it is the beach grass will stay the way it is and we're actually proposing to um plant an additional 1800 be root Beach Grass plugs um in the lower portion of the bank okay the lower portion meaning the light green below the dark green that yes so we can see actually it's just off um it's just off there's a there's an area that says to be seated and we're using a tall grass mix on the bank here again Banks to ility is really important to us in this site um and so we're using what we call a tall grass um species uh mix with um switch grass big blue stem Indian grass um these are taller grasses with very deep and aggressive root systems that really do an excellent job of stabilizing the slope um and then the beach grass will be planted in the area it's sort of showing in that olive drab green um a little bit lower on the bank there's also quite a bit of Rosa Rose in that area but we are not proposing to remove the regosa rose um we're planning to work and plant in and around it okay questions Yeah question on the popers how do you prevent them from coming back we did treat them with the systemic herbicide so we cut the stumps and then wiped on a systemic herbicide did you yeah y um gez I just wish I had stock and J netting um but the um H how do The Beach Plum work on steep Banks I mean yep again we're proposing to plant them at a smaller size so at the three gallon size um and there's Beach Plum existing on this bank so we're really just supplementing it um and so what obviously on a steep slope when we're planting we create a small shelf plant The Beach Plum into that and then let its roots get established and grow in CU I noticed in the neighbor they none of them barely none of them really took I you know that bank was completely in order for that fiber roll array to be installed there's quite a bit of excavation that happens and that's not happening here so we have a good um top soil layer and a good Dove layer from leaves falling um of course we also have a seed bank of some of the invasive vegetation and that's why we do the followup management um but we're not disturbing the soils here which is most important that's why you see all those stumps sticking out of the ground um because our goal is to not disturb the soil in any way but let the stumps biodegrade thanks one go ahead Teresa you say that there are 10 in the plan notes there are 10 native trees varying size and your your little um list only has six so I believe that the person who wrote that plan note was counting the coralus Americana the um hazelnut as a tree um we generally counted as a shrub so I it's listed as a shrub um it can be considered a small tree or a large shrub I would call it a shrub so a we can correct that um in the plan note okay thank you other questions do you know how many trees will be taken out here I you know what we can absolutely get you that number um because we now have access to the bank I was down on the to look ATA um to if it was access staking um so that was a few weeks ago um and I was pleasantly surprised to find more native Oak and cherries than I expected uh far fewer invasive um and all of the native plant trees will stay so I can get you a count of both actually we can flag everything that's going to stay in green and anything that's proposed to be removed in orange or yellow that would be really helpful okay yes and I just remind me how many trees if any are you planting so we're planting we're proposing to plant on this so in the original we're planting 14 trees okay on this area here we're proposing to plant um two amalink here and four scrub Oak um as well as the American hazelnut which was being counted as a tree but I consider a shrub right well if you consider a shrub so do I it's it's a large shrub um and in a site like this um it will grow prolifically but yeah you know how I feel about trees that should we call shrubs like Shad brsh but um well I would say that is a tree but I will say coralus Americana is a shrub okay good um so when you get down there and look then the number of trees that you would put add might change I I we can still add the the trees that we're proposing add I am absolutely confident that we can plant the shrubs I like the IDE of planting this area densely when you walk down there right now um there's room to walk around would' like to fill that room to walk around with shrubs so that's that's the goal we really want to keep this Bank stable and the property owners really want to keep this Bank stable keeping in mind that trees are moved on the Coastal Bank get mitigated at a higher ratio yes um and we'll get that invasive tree count for you you um I don't think I I honestly think that we got the white poppers at the top of the Coastal Bank with the first round okay so so we'll get a revised you yes and with account okay okay leise Cheryl I just want to say I've only seen this property from the ocean from at the bottom of it and I um was really impressed with what was already there so I'm really glad to hear that you're not really disturbing it and that you're just letting it maintain what it's already done on its own but because it is really nice what's what has survived there yeah The Beach Plum and the Bayberry is in really good shape on this site and like I said I was I was pleasantly surprised to find as we get a little closer to the top in that midsection towards the bottom of the bank is mainly shrub plant Community it's The Beach Plum babber and then the Rosa Rose down near the toe at the revetment um it was that area at the top towards the top of the bank that we just couldn't access previously so I was pleased to find as many oak and cherry trees as we did up there well and looking from the bottom there's some trees that look like they're just about to fall over the edge are those going to be stabilized or are they going to be some of the ones that leave I will do a better assessment of that my recommendation would be to leave them I don't think that I didn't see when I was down there 3 weeks ago any tree that there's like a little bit of a ledge and near a couple of them that I'm curious what you do with that yep so I think we can come back with a with a a more detailed assessment and if there's any that I see the only reason that we would propose to cut it might be to flush cut it not to treat it with herbicide if there's any chance of it falling over and pulling about a large chunk of B with it thank you Bob go ahead uh uh when the stairs are built uh will there be any vegetation planted underneath the stairs so we were going to seed um the area underneath the stairs um we weren't proposing any shrubs to be planted underneath the stairs but we are using that tall grass and wildflower mix so that would be stabilizing underneath the stairs sh shade tolerant enough that it was I think it is yes yeah yep okay and the uh the uh plants that are going to be remaining the trees and so forth on the Coastal Bank um they won't be pruned in the future for a view or anything like that no I think they're and they're they're naturally wind sheared they're low I mean it is a pretty exposed site um so no I don't believe there's any need for that okay um because the property to the left that's what they've been doing it looked like from when I was out there um but uh so I think that and and this particular site the previous property owners and I I think I've mentioned this before they were planting up all of those spruce trees which had been given to them as gifts um and they were really valuing their privacy to the point where most people people want more of an open view um but I think that um the existing so they had never pruned anything um and then those spruce trees were in really poor condition um and then I think with the removal of the spruce trees with the white poplular and the elevation of the house I think there's the views are yeah frankly phenomenal yeah okay and you'll be planting low enough plants uh towards the top towards the top of the bank yes because we do not want anybody going in and cutting in the future that's the goal is to plant it back and allow it to naturalize yeah okay thank you okay anybody else anybody online with any questions comments so what I have here is um to come back with a plan that reduces the stair the bottom of the stair from the beach um try to combine the two restoration plans so we can see the entire property in the bank inventory um the trees that were removed at the top of the bank the invasive MH um and assess the condition of the existing trees and decide whether anything's going to change there yes okay anything else then do you want to aim [Music] for well we try well yeah we'll try to get the the plan filed as soon as possible okay we can put it on for the eth when do you have zba 30th of May y May 30th yeah May 30th my birthday we're gonna have a party okay and and and zba will say just because it's your birthday we're going to do what you want um no what we can do is is gather on the eth review these last pieces and then we'll hold until after great they've had their hearing so we'll take a motion to continue to the 8th I move that we continue 486 Shore Road to the meeting on May 8th 20124 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise hi Cheryl hi Karen hi Eric I and I vote I so we'll see you back thank you thank you Susan thank you okay so my copy cut off at this point minutes and um my word is frozen so I can't pull up any other word documents because it's just unresponsive so what do we have minutes okay somebody El at least can you take it um away because I don't have I can't addit anything oh and Haring run yep all right Paul um what do we have we have minutes yeah you have uh last couple items minutes to the uh to be approved March 13th 2024 and then a vote on the Herring run plan there's no unforeseen business so you can adjourn after that right we're going to make we're going to make some guys in the booth very happy yeah um all right does anyone have uh comments questions other further changes than what has already been shown on the minutes no anybody no I I I made my changes before uh so okay can you accept all changes and stop tracking and Crystal will have all four Word documents ready for release so I'll take a motion to approve the minutes I move that we approve the minutes from March 13 2024 Gordon second V call vote Bob I leise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so they approved and then the last is the Herring run um we had told them we didn't need them to come back um they have asked us to approve their um their overall management plan that we reviewed I don't know about a month ago or so so I'll just take a motion to do that let's approve that plan so they can move ahead with that project I move that we approve the Herring run plan Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise I Cheryl I Karen I Eric I and I vote I so that is done and approved that's the end of our agenda were you waiting for or are you early for the next meeting I'm just observing oh okay running oh oh ah well welcome hello okay anything else Paul no that's it all right motion to adjourn I move that we adjourn Gordon second well call vote Bob hi leas hi Cheryl hi Karen hi Eric hi Bob hi to vote on that I vote I that's a wrap we're adjourned thank you what would happened if some everybody said no I know we can we're [Music] e for