e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] held on May 1st 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of chadam protections Wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my name is Karen laon and I serve as Vice chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on chatam TV and is being recorded on the on demand archives available on the town's website it is being conducted in person by phone and by video conference the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review are post on the town's website to all participants whether attending by phone or online please remain muted muted unless you have been recognized by the Vice chair when recognized please identify yourself for the record if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute by using star 6 if you're on online and you are not a commissioner please keep your camera turned off unless you have been recognized indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature so that we have a record of a quorum I will now ask each commissioner to indicate their presence Bob RS present Mary Sullivan I don't see that she's on Elise Gordon Cheryl misery present Eric Hilbert Pres associate member Bob Delo pres and I am here we have established that we have a quorum before we begin the agenda are there any announcements about any requests for continuances today Paul good afternoon Madam chair Commissioners yes we have one request for a continuance it's 169 Vineyard Avenue um that will be continued to July 10th 20124 uh when you're ready I'll read the legal advertisements on first on the agenda that's great I guess we are thank you okay all right 169 Vineyard Avenue has requested an order of conditions owner the Douglas Rose Kimberly revocable trust map 10d parcel 90- d124 D number SC10 3670 the proposed project is dwelling additions Renovations and Associated site improvements this case will be contined to July 10th 2024 at the request of the applicant I continue 169 vard for continue 169 Vineyard Avenue to July 10th 2024 all right Elise oh second Elise I Bob I Eric I Cheryl I and I say I okay the next one Paul next on the agenda is another request for an order of conditions the address 21 shad Lane clay a Rosenberg and Andrea Lynn Flink map 15c parcel 12-6 D number se10 3671 the project is proposed house addition a pool replacement and Hardscape and Associated site improvements that's the project okay uh does anyone on the commission have anything to add or change besides what's already been done on this order I added some markup yeah I see I see you did so I don't know do they have well anyway I don't know I thought that I thought it was a decrease instead of an increase of that number in the um in R but let's let's let we can let the uh the applicants rep affirm or deny is the applicants rep here yes muted you're muted if you want to speak You're [Applause] muted hello you're muted that's good yeah we hear you now so all right it's volume is pretty low though yeah please speak up but we can hear you I'm not sure if somebody else is on this is Sean papich landscape architect um I don't know if one of the other uh members is of the team is on here or if you were if you were speaking to me when you said that I was muted um I had not seen a draft of the order of conditions so I don't know if uh if there's anything we're supposed to respond to or look at or if you had any other questions for us uh well normally somebody on your team should have received the draft order yeah that would have probably just been the engineer that probably would have been uh tyan bond that would have received that um I've not seen it I don't know if there's anything on there that that um okay well I can that's um I can well I'd rather not read all the findings no we can't what I can so no understood understood I I made a couple of Corrections to maybe you can confirm or deny how about that okay I'll give it a shot here that sounds good one is that um the way it was drafted and said that there was a increase in the outer or I thought there was a decrease of 252 s f feet instead of an increase yeah that's correct that's correct okay yep that's correct yep exactly and then um yeah so let's see we I I put in there that the original pool and patio were previously approved with building permits but Conservation Commission approval was not considered necessary because the float Zone was lower at that time so no permits were but also no permits were found for the shed is that correct you need to update the word the for the shed it says for the shed shed yes the shed I don't know the answer to that question okay on that I thought that there was a permit for the shed also let me just well if that's what others are recalling then I'll I'll get rid of yeah it appeared it appeared that there was um the pool was built early on like in the 60s and then there were other um deck improvements done later right yeah and I think that's where they started to find some of that information a couple weeks ago okay um and the only other thing the only thing I had was there was a finding that not weed will be managed the not weed on the bank will be managed with J netting and blanketed and seated the wall will help contain the not we I just put a comment here for our internal discussion that this is not it's not way we should consider not weed management yeah yeah I think it sounds like it's yeah I think what we were hoping to do was to handle the area that was Disturbed with the wall construction with some native plantings and then that way try to cut back some of the knotweed in that area um specifically and and if we have to go into those beds and cut knotweed out for a few seasons but I I don't disagree to try to to try to keep the knotweed at Bay is close to Impossible I do realize that without having to continually cut it back or to treat it with um a glyphosate and so um if if it makes more sense and I believe the discussion was um on any of the slopes that are challenging there using the juk meshing mesh and then uh incorporate a seed mix um just if nothing else to hold the slope um I I do agree that we weren't going to attempt to eradicate large amounts of the knotweed and so it would be a constant fight I don't know if there's a way to handle that in your order uh of conditions you know how we treat that um we could also not plant what we were showing do the seed mix and um you ultimately have the knotweed that still gets back to our structure and that's really what that whole Hillside is I don't know if you thoughts about that it's a bit of an issue so I think there was discussion during the hearing that the if whatever mitigation is is near the not weed is doomed so it's not really it's not really mitigation if we already know it's doomed yeah right so you're not in effect not offering mitigation so that's that's the issue um and that's what I wanted to bring up for discussion here is it's it's not really a complete Unless somehow at least in my P my opinion that somehow the mitigation the not weed is addressed somehow and the only way to really do it and you know it you've already said it is to with a licensed applicator inject inject them and then that will take care of it I I would strongly recommend the applicant do that because they're going to it's just going to be hell on Earth from here on out unless they do the um in terms of it being mitigation maybe the words that we shouldn't use mitigation because it wasn't required to be mitigation that that is true that is true we now that we know that it's a decrease rather than an increase in technically you're not required to submit mitigation we' like to do the right yeah we' like to still like to do the right thing in this location right and I don't know if that's working with the agent working with um your team there and and maybe working directly with them when it comes time to address it well there's no you don't have to work you just got to got to treat it that's all it's it's either treat it or don't treated and the word mitigation is not being used in the findings because it is a decrease so um it's not being considered as mitigation also number number four fiber rolls that was actually taken out I don't know why that's back in neither do I um so that should be out the fourth finding yep that is correct so um all right so since we corrected the the need for mitigation then technically speaking not we is outside the scope of this order technically speaking so we probably should have just removed number seven the not weed on the bank that's right we will remove that that finding okay as far as special conditions it was really our general special conditions there wasn't anything above and beyond um no um no I I don't since we don't have anybody here but you and you haven't seen it I don't know it's it's to it's to your it's to your team's benefit to weigh in on these draft orders so yeah unfortunately you're left holding the bag so it's that it won't be the won't be the last time I suppose um okay all right well is anybody else have anything else to add no all right I I no we're going Bob does I got something wait and also Paul's Bob has something but then Paul you can talk go ahead Bob Hi how are you good how are you okay uh yeah we've talked about um a uh not weed management plan like three times so far and we haven't seen anything um I Echo the same sentiment that my fellow colleagues have over here that uh that knotweed if it's not contained or controlled it's just going to end up right near the pool um it's just going to keep running so I'd like to see a management plan for the knotweed and also U you know and and the right way to control it is to cut it and treat it and um keep it at Bay and you know you should have a a gap of at least 10 ft in there between your plantings or the wall and and the and the rest of the knotweed because it's just going to be a constant battle for the for the applicant um and it's I think it's a waste of time if you're going to invest that much money in plant material and so forth and then leave the leave the knotweed there I just don't see it I just it doesn't seem I think logical to me I think they're thinking that that wall that they're putting in will keep the knotweed from coming up to where they're planting they're just not going to manage it going below that wall so I don't know um let's see what Paul has to say Paul thank you madam chair um I I don't have any comment on the not weed I think you got a good handle on that but um my recollection is on the shed that uh we were we were given um documents from the uh building department that indicated that that was permitted and I think the order went to the engineer um you know that happens sometimes when you have multiple people involved um that that in the future though probably be a good idea if you're involved to check to make sure that you get you get it and you have a chance to review it ahead of time that's correct thank you all right I think unfort I think our not weed situation isn't going to be a part of this project hopefully they'll come back wanting to do something about it later because it is an issue on that bank but we've tried and the owners said they didn't want to do it yet and I agree Bob it and Bob and Bob that it needs to be dealt with but seems to be out of the scope of this project yeah unfortunately that's that's the way I see it too you know it's who does crystal oh Crystal do you have your hand up yes hi um this one was Sean Riley so if you guys have too many questions you can table it Until the End uh that's why I was wondering if it I thought it was Shawn um Sean can't join us yet and that's why another one of his projects has been pushed to the end um do we want to table it I I I think we have our answers yeah yeah I think we do I think we're okay except for that we don't have that Sean saw it that is true he has not weighed in on the the rest of maybe we let's uh have a motion to table it and then we thank you Crystal we will bring it up at the end it's not that we're not voting we want we're just trying to make sure somebody has from your team has seen this order if you're com if you're comfortable accepting it we can if you want to yeah if you want to wait for Sean to to weigh in Sean Riley to wait in on it and if he's going to be available then at the end of the meeting you know that's that's fine it's if as long as it's yeah as long as oh no it's going to be voted on today it will be voted on today it's just I I think we're more comfortable with somebody on your team having seen the order and waigh in y yep that makes sense okay we'll table it until the end okay yeah he must go ahead I move we table the voting decision on uh 21 shat Lane to the end of this meeting second Elise hi Bob hi Eric hi Cheryl I and I don't think we still have Mary and I say I okay at the end of the meeting we will take this up again right thank you all right Paul okay thanks next on the agenda is a request for an order of conditions the address is 55 lenel Lane Pamela P Kindler map 16j parcel 1 A- R2 D number se10 3664 the project is a proposed swimming pool in patio alteration of an existing septic system minor location change for an existing shed that's the project all right is anybody on the commission have any comments on this order or additions go ahead I'm Lauren cin I'm the landscape architect just in case you guys have questions we don't um is anybody here Bob's not here is he Bob's not here today no oh okay have you seen the order I have not seen the order um Bob I believe has and he had no okay great as long as Bob has I'm good for that all right uh in the I drafted this order and and in there in the second special condition I I highlighted a sentence that I thought the commission not a weigh in on and that is whether the PO FS can serve as the mitigation delineation we often require delineating mitigation areas I think more or less corresponds with the perimeter of the fence it does there's a little bit there's a triangle Beyond it because the pool fence doesn't follow the property line there's a small triangle Beyond it that is currently honeysuckle that we're proposing to take out and put native material back well the other thing occurred to me was if there were some somehow a a sign on the fence that said you know this is mitigation for for um and should not be altered and it should should not be should not be altered sure basically or whatever some similar phraseology because it's actually just a happy accident that we could just use the fence as delineation otherwise you really it's hard to do it otherwise that's true anyway that was my thought I now see that you had that comment um are how do you feel about this um could we put just a stone marker in that far corner like as a Contin as a mark as the delineation instead is that where you word at the corner beyond the fence beyond the fence yeah um well the the point of a delineation is to inform landscapers future owners that this is just not something you can rip out and put what you like in there because it was put in here for a for for a reason yeah and it's required to be maintained and is required to stay there right so just putting a stone there doesn't really convey anything okay that's why I thought a sign a little sign hanging on the fence okay mitigation area yeah do not um do not alter yeah sure I think that's okay doable could we add that into the special conditions at the where the pink yeah could do that is highlighted if we just add something after that a sign oops I will do that all right and I think anybody else Bob uh I had something on the uh shed at the entrance to the driveway that small shed that they were supposed to Anchor C it uh Bob mentioned that he could um provide some anchors to Anchor that down that's right I do recall that considering it was so uh you know close to the water uh so that should be a special condition as well so what would you like that special condition to say uh the small shed at the entrance of the driveway shall be anchored do you have your thing on yeah does this the small shed at the beginning of the driveway shall be anchored um I think maybe uh that might be enough to limit the uh you know movement or whatever from from the from the rising tide or whatever thank you never brought that up there's like a little Bridge behind the shed that used to be going over the they were going to remove cuz of there's a little there's debris behind the shed you agreed that you're going to remove that right there's an old bridge and nothing can grow under it behind the little shed in the entrance on the right to remove all that it's just piled there is that yeah there's like a little old bridge that they used back in the day when there was a river going through there and nothing can grow under it so I brought that up last time just to remove all that to out of the out of the wetlands there or the yeah if there's anything you'll see it piled there they can take it out all right did you get that too the debris behind the shed okay will be removed otherwise are we good good your Bay agrees okay Elise I move that we accept the order of conditions and 55 lenel Lane with the additions as discussed second Elise I Bob hi Eric I Cheryl I and I say I thank you thank you all right Paul okay Madam chair thank you just for edification um if anyone got a hold of an earlier agenda that was posted we moved U 3674 and 7 seven series point to the end of the agenda so the engineers could attend they had a conflict um so next on the agenda is a request to amend an order conditions 0 and 17 Billings Road Alex pushkarev not sure I did that one Justice map 7A parcel 6- S8 and 5- S7 D number SC10 3310 the project is proposed prepare to an existing sheet pile wall this is a phase one request okay is there anybody here for Z good afternoon certainly this is Cole baitman um hi Co professional engineer with hi hi everybody professional engineer with tan Bond representing the applicant here Alex push carev in his project at uh on Billings Road 17 Billings Road and I'm going to share my screen this is the first stage of our amended order of conditions request uh this is our informal request to the commission um to then follow up if approved with the more formal public notification process and uh the rest of the process for the amended order we were up here uh maybe a month ago with to present uh an extension to the existing order of conditions to the commission that extension was granted and this was the follow-up project that was um told to be presented after so the sheet that I'm currently presenting is the existing approved plann underneath the uh existing order of conditions it consists of the installation I'm sorry uh Nantucket Sound South and then Billings roads North on the plan it's an existing residential dwelling uh it's very uh well pronounced in the Harding Beach area as uh one of the only structures on this side of the road and for that reason uh it re requires protection um and maintenance of the protection structures uh the previously uh approved project consisted of the installation of approximately 70 ft of vinyl sheet pile wall within Coastal Dune uh resource areas as well as land subject to Coastal storm Flowage and then Coastal Beach I believe as well for Access purposes and then I'm going to switch to the proposed this is the proposed plan which shows a similar extension as that was previously approved as well as the remaining perimeter of the property having the existing sheet pile bulkhead also maintained by the installation of a new sheet pile bulk and immediately seword of that existing wall um we believe that all the existing resource areas um from the previously appro uh approved order conditions are also part of this project as well as the access um requirements the proposed access uh remains access from the Upland and the driveway area as well as use of the Hardings Beach um parking lot uh we we realized that that's that would require coordination from the town uh and traversing down the beach and construct a I'm going to go back a sheet a axis Road just above mean high water to get above the revetment on the property and into this seaword lawn Dune area where we can uh perform the repairs from um so in summary largely same resource areas largely same access requirements the expanded coverage includes uh a similar use of coastal resilience and flood protection measures and we hope that the commission under the special condition six of the existing uh approved order which uh reserves the right for the commission to issue an amendment applies to this project and I'd be happy to answer any questions there might be so I to start I have a couple of questions what work has been done for the original order absolutely none okay that's what I thought um we've granted you two extensions on the original order and it's extended all the way to May 20th of 2025 which is a year away and you haven't even started the original order so our thoughts were and I'll be curious to hear what the rest of the Commissioners think is if you haven't done any of the work and you've gone for two extensions why I mean now you're amending it why didn't you just close the original order and start over with a new order understood it's a very very good couple points and then a couple responses to that the first being that we do believe that this work is within the order of condition the scope of the previous order of conditions to make it a more streamlined process for permitting and the second is that there was a change in ownership of property and change in priorities uh and that was largely why uh the project is now uh pushing forward at a at a a much different pace um all right another thing is you didn't provide the original plans to show you know there's no identification of what's the original plan that's been approved versus what you're asking for now it it shows everything but you don't highlight the difference between the two different works so and we would want that um so yeah that that is one thing that we will need um I'm going to turn over to other Commissioners and then we'll see where we go do anybody have comments questions anything um I have a question on the description says the top of the bulk have be raised to a reasonable height what does that mean uh uh that is a very loose description but reasonable height is referencing expected uh flood level increases for the area consistent with the czm um flood uh uh uh Coastal flood risk um management mapping devices so the existing I believe this is in a uh AE a ve Zone U the wall currently is about elevation 9 or so and we're proposing to raise it about 2 feet with the installation of a concrete cap and then above that there would be a removable flood barrier to assist with wave uh over topping in debris and the second question I have is that so at this point you're just removing the board walk right is it removal of the boardwalk also uh only for construction access it would be replaced after that um are we to talk about the replacement yet or no okay we haven't talked about it um I just this is phase one so essentially we are at this point just being informed of the process and what they want to do and whether we think that this is an appropriate Amendment Bob so we have two extensions already on yes the and it's extended to May 20th 2025 so we I think our regulations cap our number of extensions at three which would leave you one year to get all of it done so is that an issue from your perspective so if yes so I understand that possibly two years upon approval of this amended order and then one more extension no we you have one more onee extension so the most you could go out to is May 20th 2026 for everything if you were to close this current order that you have and do a new order you start fresh but otherwise everything has to be completed by May 20th 2026 you have no extensions left we understand that so that's that's essentially two years if one more extension was granted next year if yeah and you think that's doable yes there there's there's there's there's there's been segmentation of this project for purposes of Expediting the seaw wall portion um because there's other parts of the project that's not included in this application that the clients would like to uh do at some point but realizing through d uh the lengthy process of those uh proposed repairs which aren't included today uh that was the reason to segment this project out and to continue forward with this instead of the other improvements the client uh wishes to do so that's another reason why this portion is being expedited plus the southern storms this year didn't help so when does the second extension end May 20th 2025 okay okay yeah a year from now okay that's the second extension yeah okay s this uh the original order is from 2019 and due to covid extensions we now out to 20 May 20th 2025 and this is phase one so it is it is so you as long as you we're all on the same page in terms of you have two hour two years for the for the project and but we'll talk about the specifics during phase two correct I think there's largely a uh the project project the whole project which I would recommend when you come for phase two that you have a little more detail on uh you know plans for the boardwalk and all of that and its replacement because obviously you're taking it out to do the work um and as much detail as possible so you know materials Etc anybody else and um also for clarity I think there's an existing condition for time of year restriction on the project so this this project can't get going until August correct of this year that's why I making sure that you think it can get done all right well everybody ready go ahead phase one approve I I move that we approve phase one proposal for 0o and 17 Billings Road second for an amended order for an amended order of conditions Elise I I Eric I Cheryl I and I say I thank you thank you we will follow all up thank you okay Paul okay thank you next on the agenda is another request to amend in order of conditions 500 Shore Road step and Stacy Barton map 16g parcel A5 the EP number SC10 3645 project is Bank stabilization amendment to construct and maintain beach access stairs and placement of a portable rinse station the staircase will be over a Coastal Bank this is a phase two Hi how are you good evening doing good thank you how are you um for the record rul is Sardi with cape and Island engineering representing the applicant in the audience is also attorney Bill lville representing the applicant and I believe through um the remote platform is Aden Zager who's also an attorney for the applicant so as stated this is phase two to amend an order of condition that was approved um last fall um it was issued in October U 13 2023 um for this proposed project um initially the project included um Shoreline stabilization with a soft solution along with a stair access to the beach um during those first proceedings we um eliminated portion um of the stairs from the project um and kept the shoreline stabilization the order of condition was issued for that project and this winter that project was constructed so the shoreline stabilization has been done um but from the beginning we knew we were going coming forward with an amendment to that permid to reintroduce the stairs access to the beach um so this is phase two as in Phase One um the commission felt that because it was originally part of the application an amendment was adequate for this stair proposal um so at that first phase one presentation we got we received a lot of feedback from this commission um and the applicant accepted to do revisions to the plan we did not submit those revisions um last week because um we were informed if we submitted those revision last week we will be pushed to another hearing date but there's a lot of um involvement from Neighbors and zoning board of appeals that we wanted to at least present the application um tonight today and also kind of briefly explain some of the revisions that we're working on um and if the chair allows me to I do have a comparison of the two um kind of changes um to distribute so first of all um the application is for stairways to access the beach we have a stairways that we supposes four feet wide for an overall length down the center line of the stairs of 33 foot in length we also propos a portable ring station um on the Upland side of the stairs and we also had some um downcasting lighting um down the stairs um that um part of the application the lighting was something that at the phase one presentation um the commission felt that it should be on a timer um but the applicant decided to completely remove lighting from the project altogether um the portable station um the commission has some feedback that the property already has a ring station and was there a need for a portable Rin station um the applicant decided to completely remove that from the application um there was some um discussion about the actual stair um towards the bottom of the stairs we have some lateral movement of the stair that went down to us the last landing and then continue on with a 90° to the beach and there was a thought that maybe that turn on that 90° turn was sort of like a 14 by4 Landing that could be used for like a deck um that was not the intent but the applicant decided to reconfigure the stairs so instead of having the 90 Dee turn on the stairs we now revise the stairs to be completely straight on onto the beach the other revision we did to the stair itself um from a 4 foot through and through width we are reducing the width of the stair sections um to 3T width um the first portion at the top of the stairs closest to to the pool we have a bench on that side of the stairs so that that portion of the walkway is still 4 feet then we reduce to 3 feet every time there's a landing um we have that Landing be 4T width but only 3T depth um The Landings are required because every 12T of vertical difference in stairs we need to have a landing so those Landings are 4 foot wide but only 3 foot in depth um this overall reduction comes back to another comment we received at Phase One a mitigation for the proposed footprint of the stair so the original filing that we did for this amendment had a stair that's 500 32 square fet this changes on the size of the structure um turned out to be 44 square fet and the applicant agrees that they can um mitigate for that um some comments were saying that replacing some of the ornamental planting beds that the property has with mitigation plantings um so the applicant agreed towards the north side of the the property kind of East of the existing patio and north of the deck there is a a sand beach ornamental area um they're willing to give all that up for mitigation and that area comes out to be roughly 217 square feet so we're still sure to get to the 44 square feet of mitigation to compensate for the footprint of the stairs so on the south side of the pool there's a lawn area and what the applicant is is willing to do um is remove the remaining 187 Square ft of lawn in that area and then use that area for Native species the native species that um they're proposing to do is a continuation of the species that were listed and approved um last fall with the original order condition so it's just an expansion of that um that those different varieties that were approved um for that order condition um um namely there were sh Berry Arrow wood Carolina Rose switch grass um and then the the remaining of the IR were going to be seated with Native Native seating and there was some some sensitive ferns to include for diversity um so if the chair allows me to and the board wants to see I do have a comparison of those um changes that we did to the plan I have not submitted the revised plans because we didn't want to push it further out um this hearing but we're willing to submit those plans if the board um the Commissioners want to see it but overall we took all the information from that phase one meeting and revised the scope of the work to reduce footprint and eliminate some of the the items that were first U approved or or requested okay thank you um we appreciate that you listened and that the homeowners are you know have come up with some solutions for mitigation we received your letter but as you said you didn't provide the new plan nor do we have a plan with the mitigation and that plan would need to show us the mitigation for the current plan that the order is as and then SE on that same plan show us the mitigation if we had those before this hearing we probably could have sent this for an order an amended order but given that we don't have them we can't do anything until we see those and have time to review them so we're going to have to continue unless you know I mean we don't we've had nothing to review right I I understand um but if if at least with this information and with the information in the packet that was originally submitted we can get additional feedback it may be that the Revis plan doesn't need to revise anymore well we haven't seen the plan so we can't really comment on I I can comment based off your letter we're thrilled you listened I think um you know you definitely heard what we were saying but we needed to see it on a plan and that's what's missing at this point so it's hard we can't approve this because we don't have anything to see right in terms of the revised plan but we did do this the original application with the the amendment plan that we still revie we don't have a plan that shows what the stairs are going to look like now that shows that the rent station is out we don't have a plan that has the additional mitigation that's what we're missing um if we had those plans we would definitely be ready to you know move forward understood and we we agree that we'll continue this hearing um but we did want to proceed with tonight's hearing because we have that's fine zoning board of appeals that may ask this board for some comments and so forth so we wanted to make sure that we didn't miss this one hearing hi Bill you want comment if I could Madam chairman thank you Bill litfield here on behalf along with Adam zagger on the applicants as R just said we originally scheduled to go before zba on April 30th okay and recognizing that this board would have some did have some concerns we asked the zba to continue that until May 30th I believe so we do have time for you and we appreciate your recognition of the accommodation which the uh applicants have done to the plan uh what we'd like to do I think I think ra if I I don't mean to put words in his mouth but I think he'd like to get some feedback from you which I think is so far positive about the revised plan and then if we could set a date uh by which uh we could have approval that would be fine ra is that essentially where we are right um we understood that we didn't submit it but I do have copies if if the board wants to take a look at the comparison it's just a sideb side comparon right but we also need a mitigation plan right and it's included we he he physically has the plans today we realize that they weren't submitted in time for your formal review I mean if you we can't we can't look at them yeah we're not going to be able to evaluate we have to have them ahead of time yeah we're not going to be able to we could have had them Friday and been able to review them um I mean great if you want to leave them with us but we're going to have to continue it because we don't have time to look them over and really evaluate and come up with questions um what I was thinking was uh next week is super uh heavy for the meeing so I mean if anybody has any other comments but right now what I'm thinking is we would continue to May 22nd which would still get you before your zoning time and as long as everything looks okay and we have that opportunity to ask questions then we could always give you the usual letter that says that you know we can go forward the the standard letter Madam chairman that the that the uh plans uh or that the proposal can be permitted to meet the standards we would we would understand that if there are broader issues attorney zagger is here to talk about them and I think attorney hurry on behal some of the neighbors might like to raise them as well if today would be an opportunity to discuss that maybe we could resolve that issue that's obviously up to the commission okay well let me hear first from Commissioners how they feel about what we've heard so far and then if you're obviously more than welcome to speak so Elise I think all we're missing is the Consolidated report that you've done with the additional mitigation the changes that you've done and your client is wonderful to have Incorporated all our suggestions I think our review will lead to a fairly straightforward hearing on the order of conditions I see nothing in this Bob you on the face of it it sounds great uh but the devil sometimes can hide in the details so we need we'll need to see it anybody else Eric um I agree to that I mean I don't mind listening to the neighbors and getting that out of the way if there's any neighbors or oh comments no we'll listen to anybody who's here so definitely Bob I got a question on the stabilization of the U Bank after the u u stairs are constructed um what do you what are your plans on that you going you going to seed or anything like that so yes um last fall part of the approval for the shoreline stabilization included um planting the entire um Bank um so the entire bank is going to be planted underneath the area where the stairs are going to go it's going to be seated with um some shade tolerant um Native seed mix um so all of that is going to be stabilized and allowed to grow is that is that on this plan in the original um order of condition that was um one of the plans from Wilkinson ecological okay thank you charl do you have anything I'm also okay all right would you like to speak thank you and good afternoon um my name is T.J hurry I'm an attorney and I represent Greg and Heather Butler uh Heather is with me in the crowd today uh Greg is uh with us virtually um in addition of the Butlers we also represent the aunt Lydia way easement holders um when I was before you uh during the last hearing I indicated that we were preparing our own plans uh to submit for our own stairwell along that easan area um I indicated to you that the those plans were in process uh I can tell you this afternoon that they have been finalized and we've made our initial submission to d uh so with that having been said we are hoping to get on your agenda soon and uh addressing you further from what I have heard you submitted everything necessary to us and it's on the agenda for next week fantastic so with that having been said if there's if there's any questions uh we look forward to addressing is soon yeah at this point I don't think we have any questions because we haven't seen anything of course but thank you very much thank you anyone else do we have can't tell I don't think anybody else has their hands raised okay so I think at this point we need a motion to continue phase the Phase 2 to May 22nd I move that we continue 500 Shore Road to May 22nd 2024 second Elise I Bob I Eric I Cheryl I and I say I thank you very much thank you could I leave the revised plans with sure you just as long as you also remember that you should submit digital versions yes for those of us so don't do paper so I have 10 copies I don't want them to go to away so do you need 10 copies no need one right here no no wait we need what's the usual four we need seven seven Crystal I knew Crystal would three upstairs yep I'll bring them to you Crystal good thank youal all right then Paul I think we're ready for the next thank you madam chair uh next on the agenda is a notice of intent submission the address is the address is 68 Squanto Drive applicant Christopher holzner map 10c parcel 23-2 D number se10 3680 propos project is a retaining wall generator expanded vegetated buffer invasive plant removal and removal of four trees at the bottom of the Coastal Bank and replant with Native vegetation that is the project so you're going to okay perfect um sorry good afternoon everyone Teresa spra and Mike Tannis with blue flax design and attorney Lichfield um on behalf of um Christopher holzner um the property owner at 68 Squanto Drive um we have submitted a notice of intent application um for the proposed project which um the Project's main goal is to stabilize the Coastal Bank um manage erosion by removing invasive vegetation replanting with native plant species um as well as um as well as putting installing a generator um in the utility area to the east of the um existing dwelling um that retaining um sorry that generator requires a low retaining R approximately 1 foot high in order to level um that area out to provide a level area for the generator um in addition to the plan showing the proposed generator the invasive species removal and restoration we have included a coverage calculations table on the plan that shows that a proposed increase of 24 square feet for the generator area within the 50t no disturb Zone um and proposed mitigation total coverage of the restoration mitigation planting 472 Square fet Mike's going to go into detail on the mitigation restoration portion of the project in just a moment um in addition with our notice of intent application we've included an Alternatives analysis for the installation of the generator as the generator is proposed for um with it is located within the no disturb Zone um we've considered three Alternatives including um no generator which does not meet the needs of the homeowner so that is not a preferred alternative um we did look at installing the generator to the west of the dwelling um outside of the 50-ft buffer zone um but because of the um location of the utilities gas electricity Etc um and the location of the septic system in the front yard the amount of trenching that would be required um to to run the um electrical and gas to the west side of the dwelling in order to sight that um generator outside um would actually require more um environmental disturbance than the proposed area within the 50ft no disturb Zone the where the generator is proposed is already um a utility area there's no existing native vegetation and it's um within um 10 ft of the structure of the existing dwelling so we feel that with that and then with the proposed restoration and mitigation being provided that this location of the generator is a preferred alternative and can be approved and conditioned um with a with the approval of a variance at the commission's discretion um and Mike is going to discuss the invasive species management existing conditions in more detail and then we'll be happy to answer any questions thank you thanks go ahead Mike hello Mike Tannis blue flax design as Teresa mentioned uh one of the main goals is to address the erosion on the bank currently the entire most of the 50ft buffer zone and the top of the Coastal Bank is covered with lawn this in effect funnels storm water down the bank causing ruting and erosion um so to address that we're expanding the vegetated buffer on top of the Coastal Bank and um along with that we're reorienting the top of the stairs slightly to face because as currently currently it faces the neighboring property and that kind of encourages a lot of the renters the kids of weekly renters to use those stairs so we're reorienting them slightly to face the holzer's house and expanding the veget ated buffer around it to provide a screen to discourage that um on the Coastal Bank itself it's currently a mix of invasive shrubs and some healthy Natives and also native trees that have been historically and continuously pruned to maintain the view so for that we're going to protect all healthy native vegetation any trees that have been topped and pruned we're going to remove um and replace with appropriate uh shrubs and trees uh any scrub Oaks that we find will remain um and then at the bottom of the bank currently there's no High T excuse me high Marsh vegetation so there's a lot of scarping along the bottom of the bank and uh we propose we're proposing that four trees that are currently on the bottom two Oaks and two Pines they're right at the toe and there's a lot of scarping under them the roots are exposed so we're proposing to cut those and remove them leaving the stumps in place uh so they don't fall and leverage the bank and pull out more of it and along that area we're going to plant a number of shrubs of marsh Elder and high tide Bush and we'll also plug with uh High Marsh grasses and you know to establish some vegetation and hopefully that'll capture some sediment and build up the rack line and stabilize the base of it and yeah any questions a couple things um the area that has been uh cut slash toed managed on the bank was that ever permitted as a view corridor it's clear that that area has been managed for probably decades um I do not have answer to that I don't think that there has ever been um a existing Vista management permit I think this is something that's been managed like I said for decades um and so with the condition of some of the Oaks particularly near the top of the bank that are 2 or three feet tall that really want to be 70 foot to fall trees um at this point they uh the they're not viable to be managed back into canopy Siz trees which is why we're proposing to remove them and replace them with Woody vegetation that can reach mature size without being the idea is that once we finish with this restoration this area is entirely undisturbed so there's no more pruning no more Vista cutting no more anything happening within the 50ft buffer or on the Coastal Bank itself on the plan the opposite side of the house from where you want to put the generator you do have something that's says proposed generator with an arrow so you probably want to remove that we will REM I just noticed that as I looked over yes that will be removed there is no proposed generator in that area and is there any way to move the generator back at all we oh go ahead Mike it would be less of a an a hill if you moved back some so the generator there has to be a certain distance from Windows and it has to be a certain distance from the other utilities and that's where it's cited so there has to be a certain amount of clearance around the generator so it's been cited um ideally it would be a little bit closer to the house but there is a window there and so it has to be pushed a little further away and there has to be a certain amount of clearance around the generator um so that's why it's placed in its location okay do you have to zba said that they're not sure if you they need you need to go before them for the generator we will let attorney Lichfield answer that question saw him jump up sorry Bill thank you madam chairman bfield we we have existing uh air conditioning compressors right there and because those are less than 15 ft from the lot line they're pre-existing non-conforming so we'll be going to zba in addition for the very very minor change in the stairway um for the location of the generator where shown and the reason the proposed generator has another aror arrow is we have looked at this five or six different locations up by the street to the left to the right unfortunately or unfortunately we're cited currently is really the only place we can put it I just wanted to make sure you took the words off of the other side because I thought wait a minute they're not two generators so obviously apologies yes no that's fine um I'll open it up to Commissioners anybody well I just a question I notic that the neighbor's bulkhead is on the property um was that ever permitted or anything to have a section of would that be a mitigation to have that portion removed from your property um that is the exactly yeah the bulkhead down at the end I don't know what the history of that bulkhead is it the the nice thing about that area is it's mainly native vegetation directly above that bulkhead where most of the invasive vegetation not surprisingly is located around the stairs and up towards the top of the bank where there's been consistent disturbance that area um at on the southern side um is actually quite well vegetated with Native vegetation so the amount of disturbance to remove that bulkhead and regrade might be greater than the benefit of removing it anybody else that's I got something Karen sure so are you going to re remove and replace the stairway there is no proposal to remove and replace the stairway okay now underneath the stairway is like a gully um it's really eroded and there's no vegetation growing underneath and it seems like it's constantly being erod eroded um further yep any plans on correcting that we can we can attempt to plant because of the existing vegetation I don't think there's a lot of light reaching that area under the stairs um perhaps like Pennsylvania sge we could plug into that area maybe stabilize it blanket it and plug some vegetation into it um unfortunately I think that the way the water is running down right now because there's no vegetation at the top of the bank as Mike pointed out the water is really channeled down along the edge of the stairs our hope is that when we remove the invasive vegetation restore the native vegetation plant that top of Coastal Bank to allow some of that water to slow down infiltrate um filtered be absorbed that that will help correct some of that um we're going to have to kind of watch and see on that so I think that should be something that we look at very closely during the three-year monitoring period and then address that if we can with additional planting and then um yeah that would be good and and along the the bottom of the bank um there's a lot of erosion taking place I think from the uh from the from the seawater yes uh and that's why you have those trees that are really almost falling in falling over any plans to address that at all so we're not proposing any kind of um stabilization in the form we did consider and look at core logs installation fiber roll install I I don't think it's necessary here once and the amount of disturbance that will be required to install fiber rols will be so significant we'd have to remove so much vegetation excavate so much of the toe of the bank I think that it's I think that we there will probably be some slumping over time the reason we're proposing to cut the trees because they're leaning so far out and over when they do eventually fall we don't want them to take large chunks of the bank with them our goal is to flush cut leave the stumps in place we know that at some point that's going to naturally slump I am not concerned about it destabilizing the bank um the house is not so close to the top of the Coastal Bank that I'm concerned about any stability at the top of the Coastal Bank again something to monitor over time I think first steps would be let's try and get it vegetated let's remove that weight try and get the area vegetated as Mike pointed out that vegetation will hold some of the rack and then eventually some sand will start to accr in that area if we see over the course of um you know the next 7 to 10 years that it's becoming significantly more scarped then we may come back with a fibral installation but I would hate to jump to that right now I I think the scarping at that toe is just part of what's happening in a fairly fairly dynamic system it's not a velocity Zone it's an azone um so I'm not as concerned as I would be if it were a vzone you wouldn't want to just nourish it with some sand and then maybe plant some beach grass into it or something like that I mean I think the beach grass would be a really short term um solution um because I think having salt marsh grasses in there would be better than doing a mafa beach grass so I think getting the vegetation and really the best way to get that Beach elevation up is to get the rack is give the rack a chance to kind of hold and stay in place and not be washed away I think the high tide Bush the barus and the um and the uh the Ivor fressin in the barus um will will help hold some of that rack in I think that's the best way to approach it it's the least amount of disturbance to start fiber roll installation in this location would be barging in fiber rolls because there's no access it would be a tremendous amount of disturbance and I I just don't think it's necessary okay thank you yep Elise Teresa I noticed some sprinkler sprinkler heads along the house is there a and I know you're not going to do permanent irrigation for this I just wanted to confirm that that's not going to be extended into the no there'll be temporary irrigation just to get the vegetation established and then the irrigation would be removed okay yes thank you Bob I was looking for I was look at your documents but I realized whenever I look at them it changes what I have on yeah do and you submitted about 97 documents so it's hard to find the one I was looking for um okay is there a site map yes the cyan we should have mentioned was done by um TS surveying Tom Stell did the um the survey plan of the site I I think maybe I got a little confused you're not you are putting a you're not putting a bulkhead in right no not at all no there is an existing portion of Bulkhead I think I got confused yes I confus you're looking for I confused you on that maybe that was that was you sorry it was you Eric we met up we we ran into each other at the site so um that's good because I was going to have all kinds of issues with it so no we're not no um the Karen started out talking about view corridors effectively I mean you're not asking for a view corridor effectively you'll have a Vista Corridor because you're going to take down any tree that's in the view well any tree that's been cut there are a number of scrub Oaks in here that are going to remain and any tree that obviously hasn't we're talking about the trees that have been kept it like a 3 foot tall they're like Oaks um those are the ones that we're proposing to flush cut and then plant shrubs um there's no canopy trees that we're proposing to remove and we're not proposing to remove the scrub Oak okay so are you removing native shrubs of various there's some existing viburnum Mike has a better sense of what's on the Coastal Bank he did a close analysis of the vegetation there's pockets of really healthy uh sheep Laurel and Bay Berry there's some Viber them there any native shrubs that are damaged we'll flush cut and allow them to regrow but we're not proposing removing any them out okay and by damaged he means damaged by invasive Vines yes not right okay just wondering whether or not this part your application you should have a view corridor demarked demarcated delineated indicated so that in the future it's it's acknowledged that there is such on this property but um they didn't really apply for one I know I know that's what I'm that's what right so in essence you're getting one because the trees that have been cut are being you know removed and you're putting in shrubs it's tough because I'd say it's been managed for a number of years for a long time with a Vista so it's hard to I I I couldn't even tell you you know when and how long it's been pruned it's probably just been that way I hate to say forever but yeah it's been that way probably forever so at this point what our goal is is to stop all cutting like we don't want any more cutting in the area and and the holers understand that it's a great goal and it's one that you know that we have always been yes receptive to and I'm receptive to it as well um so anyway yeah I I don't really have I think it's generally a good prodct project where are the Shad bushes going I can't quite tell from the icons sometimes um they're the larger circles with the three dots in the center they're kind of halfway down the bank there's two on the left side one why don't if we walk over there and just point to a couple don't don't say anything though yeah don't talk oh I see okay got okay up and up above up above um there's one up near your black scared about okay and all then the Cedars along the up upper right side correct yes which is really a continuation of sort of what they have up near where you're putting the generator exactly it's it's all invaded all of that vegetation is invasive so that will all come out and will all be replanted with the Cedars the viburnum the bay Berry and the other plant species that are shown yep yeah I think it's it's a overall it's a it's a good project it's benefit yeah and um that's all sure anything so you mentioned that you are leaving scrub Pines that have not been cut in the past yeah so they actually could grow into the view over time I think the the they're at their maximum height so I'm not concerned about them growing into the view over time it's um mainly scrub Oak okay so there oh that's right scrub Oak not Pine so there's not going to be a temptation to do anything with the scrub Oak in the future as these little guys grow up cuz they're not going to grow up no they're they're about their mature Healy mature scrub Oaks anyone else I think from what I'm hearing I think we can probably go to an order um how about May 22nd May 22nd would be fantastic yes okay thank you if we could have a motion I move the that we um approve 68 Sano drive to be moved forward for an order of conditions on May 22nd second Elise I Bob I Eric I Cheryl I and I say I thank you thank you thank you all right Paul thank you madam chair next on the agenda is a noce tent the address is 93 scattery Road the applicant is Scott Ward and ingred Goldman map 16j parcel 28-9 the EP number se10 3679 the project is replacement of an existing pool and tennis court good afternoon David little and Tom M representing Scott Ward and ingred Goldberg and welcome back from your sabatical Eric it's been quite a few years thank you how how many may I ask probably 15 I um so we were before you last year with a with a project to replace the basement under a wing of the dwelling which if you made an on-site you can see that the work is ongoing right now um and now uh we're before you with the next phase they would like to replace the tennis court and replace the swimming pool and the hardscaping we've the the dwelling dates back to 1742 the cottage B dates back to 1980 and during the permitting of the last project um we learned that the pool and the tennis court were permitted we found the permit were permitted legally in 1986 there was a concern that this was an unpermitted use so I just wanted to bring that up yeah uh we provided you with um detailed plans I think Tom's really done the heavy lifting on this he's prepared detailed plans of how he proposes to replace the the two significant structures near the Wetland the metrics are we have a -3 Square ft in reduction in the 0 to 50 and we have ative - 233 Square ft of reduction in the 50 to 100 um I'm going to I'm really going to turn it over to Tom I'll I'll help out uh any way we can uh I just want to note that the the tennis court is going to be replaced in kind it's going to be another a quote astr Turf tennis court it's going to be permeable so um I'm going to turn it over to Tom and then we'll both answer questions later thank you good afternoon um so the design intent for this project was to really you know stay true to existing conditions the proposed layout and is is really very similar to what's already there um replacing like David said the the tennis court and the pool and removing all the existing uh Hardscape and some of it is actually uh impervious the existing blue stone patio off of the main house has about a a 12 inch thick Granite uh concrete slab and it's wet set and we're proposing to remove that and replace with a dry Set uh patio that is actually reduced in coverage um all Native plantings are proposed within the 0 to 50 and we meet the threshold within the 50 to 100 for 75% native 25% non-native non-invasive and we are actually showing some some uh additional restoration areas even though it's not really required because we have a reduction coverage um to the south of the guest house um there's uh a stand of where we're removing the miscanthus there's a clump of miscanthus we're removing um relocated the two Red Oaks that were previously proposed they were kind of placed where the swing set is so I I move them into the lawn area that's now proposed planting with some Bay Berry and Prairie drop seed grass additionally to the north of the tennis court there was a lawn area that were're we're now showing with more Bay Berry and Prairie uh drop seed grass and if you have I I'll open up now if you have any questions okay I have a couple things before we get going um first of all we already have the order um our policy is to only have one open order at a time that's a DP policy um so why didn't you apply for an amendment to the or existing order I didn't believe it was within the scope of the original project I thought the scope of the original project was very specific to replace the foundation and not disturb everything I thought this went Way Beyond the scope of the original project all right um I still think it probably should be an amendment it's very difficult we're I'm I'm I'm happy with that Karen if if you want us to resubmit but I've never I've always been under the impression that if if a project didn't fall within the scope of the original order it required a new yeah I mean this this this town must be different from other towns then because know that we're different um it's just we we are trying hard to not have two open orders at the same time it's very hard if you're trying to close one and not the other when they're together um but having said that um one of the issues I had right away was I think your Tom your plan your mitigation or planting plan because it's not mitigation um also encompasses the mitigation for the open order based off of the plan I looked at for the open order it may yeah but it doesn't differentiate the there's no way to tell on your plan it looks like this is everything you are doing and so we need those put together and I know they were prepared by different groups but we need it somehow delineated that this is for the order that's open the current order and this is additional um and if you're changing anything as far as plantings because I didn't get that far into the detail um from the original order of what's going into that area it should be highlighted and let us you know and and dealt with under understood um and I'll dive I'll dive into the Weeds on that and make that very clear that'd be great um I mean that that was just my first first thoughts I'll open it to other Commissioners for their comments and then we can go from there and see how people feel about having two orders versus an amendment to this order to the original order anybody so speak up they they are they are distinct they are projects um personally I don't think it's a big issue whether from a regulatory perspective I I don't remember I think it's harder to stay on top of both things but that you know that may be neither here nor there we have always adhere to that practice I do know that we have so we would be making an exception here but I think on the whole it it it doesn't concern me that much they no they're not there is the issue of overlapping mitigation is confusing which hopefully we can straighten out I just so the current order that's open when is that work going to be completed very soon so is that actually going to be completed before this gets started I guess is what I'm wondering so maybe it won't I I can find out Cheryl um in the meantime I'll certainly this make it very clear on a colored plan what was previously approved and what were proposing now and make it clear that we're complying with your RS yeah and I'm not actually that it sounds like we may be closing this order kind of as you get started on the next door as far as police like paying attention to what you're doing there whatever which is one of your concerns Karen well I don't think they can't well they it's very much under construction right now so they haven't started the planting for the original order there's no way there is mitigate m from the first order oh yes got yes yeah and that's see you can't tell gotcha anybody else go ahead oh I I just had a question on the smaller plan here why is there a fence outside the fence of the tennis court is it is this a correct is this mm is strange to me that you'd put a fence outside the fence where is he um if it's a pool is this on the Civil on our the ryer and W Cox plan plan that's the limit of work Eric oh okay sorry that I'm sorry it has the same oh it looks like I was that's I'm sorry that's the limit of word oh okay got it yeah it's in my view it would be too bad that some of the mitigation I mean you just have the beginning of the knotweed right on the edge of the bank just starting to take hold I just I was surprised that they didn't want to go after that you know as as as a mitigated situation well they only have a certain amount of property to work within the not weat extends well the not the knotweed is just starting to take in right on the crust of the Hill that goes in it's in it's in the area um but anyway it's that's it for me the only thing I will say that's and believe me it's not a positive but I'm I've learned since I'm doing my own pollinator garden now not weed is a great pollinator it it did you did you did you know that it's it's actually uh considered a great pollinators I just thought I'd throw that out there because I'm I'm doing a pollinator Garden in my own yard and I was surprised to read that that that was one of the it's very aggressive though no I understand that you should plant it everywhere then no no no no I just and your neighbors will just love you for doing that I would never do that having just discovered not weed on my property right right outside the tennis court right on that crust there it's start you know why don't maybe we can talk to we have time now we need to do some changes let's talk to the owners about the knotweed yeah that would be a great mitigation well they don't have to do well I think it's I you don't have to I think it's going to be managing the knotweed that's on our property I don't think we can eradicate it but we can certainly manage it thanks go ahead yeah this is one of those project one of those sites when you walk up to it you say to yourself how on Earth did this ever wind up in the in the ndz but of course this was done a long time ago right so when you when you talked about permits before the building permit or or kcom permit I have a packet with all the permits that I'm going to give you I knew you were going to ask so building just for me or I expected you good I'm glad I'm holding true to tight I'm not trying to be derogatory I just I I I remembered the last hearing and your concern it's my thing yeah I included the um building permit application and the approved plans that showed the tennis court in the pool but for cons for is this have concom approval there's a there's a order the order of conditions from the concom approval is in there as well okay oh well too bad too bad you did your diligence there so I even went back to my notes for the open order to see how we had how we had ended up with the pool in the tennis court just to make sure so I knew you had found something did the original orders approve lighting it didn't no there was no this was 1986 so this is what 20 27 28 years ago um or 26 years a no 30 some years ago I don't know okay all right but you obviously will have the opportunity to condition that in any way you want no lights no Night tennis um lighting is is an issue for some towns it is it is it's an issue for us as well so that you still got a bite of that Apple I but no we aren't showing any lighting at this point in time other than the normal house lighting that's attached to the building and the guest house I'm just I'm just it'd be great if we didn't have those tennis lights on dark you know does the tennis court have lights I I didn't see any I don't they're not reflected on currently there's no there's no no lights okay so we can just say no lights no lights yeah okay that's good all right that's all that's all I got they'll be too tired playing tennis all day to play at night so yeah no I think just so long as we have Clarity between the mitigation on both right both PL I'm fine Karen I got Yeah question I figured uh uh I'm going to Echo Eric's comments on the I saw the knotweed at the top of that bank too uh to the just to the left just to the west of the tennis court uh if you could control that that would that would be good uh and also the F he mentioned the fence uh but there's a act a pool fence uh quite a bit aways from the pool um what how is how was that going to be protected that pool by a fence or by an auto cover or Auto cover Auto cover so you're not going to have a fence at all correct so you're going to remove that fence then there there's an existing well there's an existing privacy fence to the north along that property line and then there's uh a chain link section that returns towards the tennis court and then similarly on the south side as well and currently the plan just calls to leave those intact yeah but that's uh that's in a jurisdiction corre correct yeah it is so I'd like to see that removed uh for wild life movement okay the southernly section from the tennis court down to the property line um yeah there's a chain link fence uh the chaining fence I'm talking about the the two sections to the North and South right okay okay go ahead Eric and I were talking about that when we were there and there's all there's the issue of tennis balls winding up in the Wetland too where fences might stop that so anyway my reaction was in this particular case fences are maybe doing something good but you got to balance that with Wildlife traffic as well well you're yeah you're not talking about the fence around the tennis court right you're just talking the the pool yeah which okay I got confused about which fence yeah no it was just a section of fence on the South Side uh of the property um there's two two sections of chain length one north of the tennis court and one south of the tennis court that I believe you were referring to Bob yeah yes with with Gates yes have gates with Gates yes we're proposing to replace the actual tennis court fence that follows the perimeter that but that doesn't go around the entire court it just goes around the ends yeah wait a minute so the tennis court the new fence is not going around the entire tennis court has it's there there's an existing rotting cedar fence with a chain link paneling right and that that would have to be replaced sure so you'll have it all the yes it would be within in the you know the confines of the tennis court it's lower in the middle sorry about could you also on one of these plans add a note that says what those little proposed porches are you know what the what the materials what you're going to be doing you know I know you mentioned that you're taking out the current which is cemented I think you said yes and you're going to dry lay them could you just somewhere put a note on one of these plans as to what you are doing for those yes if if you if you look at I know there's quite a few plans um if you look at oh I maybe missed it L2 that's a materials grading yeah it's in there yes every area is delineated and called out okay sorry anybody have anything else all right so we need update plan for the M for the planting I won't say mitigation what what's your schedule like Karen uh next week's very heavy no I it's not possible yeah good me CU you're not getting it I am protect we have the airport enough said um the next one after that is May 22nd and otherwise we go into June could could we May 22nd okay and that'll give us time to get the revised plans in all right we need a motion I move that we continue 93 scattery road to May 22nd 2024 second all right Elise hi Bob hi Eric hi Cheryl hi and I say I thank you welcome back Eric thank you okay Paul thank you madam chair next on the agenda is a request for a certificate of compliance the addresses 72 c Miss Lane applicant Joel Reser excuse me bird tuy map 1A paral 1K the EP number su10 3267 project was restoration Land Management I reviewed the application it was complete it was issued in 820 2018 uh the project was to uh restore vegetation remove invas species within the aura and on the Coastal Bank and improve a excuse me uh create a Vista Cora and as Bill plan was filed which defines that Cora there's an ongoing condition in in the uh order that prevents any cutting outside of that Corridor there are updated um monitoring reports submitt can you hear me yes hello all right there are updated monitor report submitted by bluefax um vegetated buffal was established biodiversity was established and uh I'd recommend go ahead and and uh approving a full certificate of compliance for the project okay can we have a motion I move that we can I can I just make a comment first sure sure um what about all the above ground irrigation and the pipes laying on the ground um does that get removed does that stay or and most of the irrigation heads are all laying on the ground anyway does when it ends are we supposed to remove the above ground irrigation or I don't know well some sometimes irrigation is already in there from you know uh prior to when the order was issued I don't have that condition right in front of me but you make sure yeah you can tell basically to answer your question temporary irrigation is usually removed uh once the project is established if there's mitigation excuse me if there's Irrigation in there for something that was done previously and that was established prior to the um order being issued that usually stays so I'll look into it make sure that uh if it's temporary it comes out um hope that answers your question thanks yeah y okay we can do a motion I move Madam chairman yes Madam chairman uh Brad Meo here from Ty and bond okay um I'd just like to elaborate on the temporary irrigation that is out there Teresa sprag has informed us that that would be removed um certainly so that but we wanted to secure the certificate of compliance and then that will be removed okay thank you very much thank you all right a motion third times a chime yes I moveed that we approve the certificate of compliance for 72 c Miss Lane second Elise I Bob I Eric I Cheryl I and I say I thank you thank you all right Paul what's next uh well what's next on the agenda is uh 36 and 74 77 SE Point Road this is uh a request for an extension to the order of conditions Sears Point Road Patrick Brogan and Patricia black are the applicants map 11a parcel 5-10 3-10 B and 411 D number SC10 3522 the project is proposed removal of a single family home and installation of a pool and Associated accessory buildings the order expires on 2325 this is the first request for extension all right hi Sean good afternoon for the records Sean Riley with tyan Bond um this is one of those projects where we combined a number of orders of conditions into a single order when the applicant purchased uh 36 Sears Point Road um and came before you with a plan to rais the two buildings and replace them with an individual dwelling and a tennis court um the this is a unique situation where we've gone to the Building Commissioner to ask to put the tennis court in before the primary dwelling and we received an extension on our uh zoning permit uh for two years and we need to give the Building Commissioner assurance that we have the permits in place to construct the primary structure which they intend on doing uh this upcoming fall and winter to start that construction the expiration of this permit is not until uh the beginning of next year but the build is an 18-month build and we need to give the um Building Commissioner assurance that we're going to have the the permits in place uh to finish that job um so that's why we're here early to ask for the extension that we're asking for okay thank you um when we saw this and it's not expiring till February 3rd 2025 um I know this is your first request and nothing's been done I think in the last two years correct no they've the last two years they' finished up and I can share if I could share my screen I'll show you the U Google Earth image of what they've done over the last couple of years this is 2021 is everybody seeing my screen yes so they've they've essentially they worked on the pool in all of the work uh related to 74 and 77 and they've also removed uh the two existing dwellings so this is uh another image from 2023 you can see that they've pretty much finished up with all of the work on uh 74 and 77 uh they've done their mitigation work and um they've removed both of the dwellings and um today uh they've replanted this area um with lawn and anticipation of of doing the structure uh just to temporarily prepare it and prevent any erosion within that area so they have done quite a bit of work over the last couple of years um and now they're looking to just continue with that work with that open order um that's open for all the properties so my feeling and I'd like to hear commissioner's thoughts I first of all we only give a one-year extension so but that would put you out till 2026 but this doesn't expire till February 2025 and my feeling is you have time to show us that something is getting done and then could come back to us in you know December January for your first extension and I don't know why we wouldn't extend it at that time there usually you know if given a real reason and we can see that work has started it would easily be approved um that's my feeling is that you're asking 10 months so the work ahead the work is starting actually the work is they they've got an on-site meeting um this week with the contractors to start the work so uh the first step is to do the the tennis court um and then there's you know time of year restrictions in chadam for zoning board for for work in the summer for exterior work so right that's why they're not starting the the work until the fall I guess we could amend our request if if the rest of the commission sees fit to reduce it to one year Well we only give oneyear extensions so it's not reducing it to a year that's all we are permitted to give is uh you can request a one-year extension up to three times so you wouldn't get a 2-year extension but that's yeah that's so that um that's actually a chatam policy is a one year that you are authorized to Y so understood how come so early Sean how come so early the why are we asking for it because the build the build is starting and the zoning enforcement officer is allowing us to build the accessory structure with the anticipation of the primary structure being built we want to have the permits in place to show him that we have at least a one-year extension if they start the build this fall will be coming back essentially when they're digging the footprint of the structure to ask for that extension for the the house footprint knowing well in advance that we're going to need it we're trying to give the Building Commissioner the assurance that we have the permits in place we get the two-year uh permit for the um for the from the zoning board for that extension and this would if we were able to get the one year it would give us that's to start the work it's not to complete the work um that would overlap with at least a one-year extension of this permit to 2026 to give the assurance that we would be able to construct and have the permits for the main the main structure okay thank you that that shed some light on it Paul CH yes Mike for I also represent the applicant may I also speak to this issue sure thank you so um just to kind of elaborate on what Sean is is saying I met with the building inspector and um Sarah Clark from the zoning board this week along with the um contractor who uh was filing uh for the application for the building permit for the tennis court because that needs a a building permit and the question arose um of allowing an accessory structure to proceed uh a principal structure on the site from a zoning standpoint and so the building inspector knowing that the tennis court was permitted not only by this commission under an order of conditions but was also included in the special permit from the zoning board was comfortable with the order of the tennis court going first provided that I gave uh him a letter indicating that the intention of of uh the property owners was that they were going to proceed uh with the single family dwelling that's been authorized under both zoning and under the uh order conditions um and uh because as John points out time of year restrictions the earliest that the house portion is going to get going uh is in the fall and so I indicated to the Building Commissioner that uh Ty and Bon had filed a a u request for a continuance because he observed that the order of conditions was going to be expiring um around the first of next year and um the order conditions required the work to be done and he said so an assurance that there's an extension in place there makes everything work and so uh while this may be A little unorthodox to come in um 10 months ahead of or 9 months ahead of the expiration that's the reason we're trying to keep all these things um together and give assurances to both boards okay Paul so that's that's just the background so I I'm hoping that the commission can see their way clear to uh considering this so that we're not up against it in the part of next year to come in and uh ask for an extension um as Sean pointed out this order of conditions at the commission's request was uh put together for both sites so there' be one order there's been continuous work going on under that order um on the the other lot because they're they're both under the same order with the swimming pool having been finished and all the mitigation being done for there and they took down the houses and now have turned their attention attention to 36 and want to proceed with that in an a fashion a reasonable fashion to get it done so that's the reason we're here a little bit early it it uh we're trying to give Assurance to all uh departments that everything is in order did you have something to say Bob well I'm I'm just wondering whether or not so that we don't violate our policy is that we could issue a letter for the billing commission to say that we issue extensions and one mirror increments up to three and there's no no reason to think that we wouldn't Grant one of your extensions uh when requested would that assure The Building Commissioner enough yeah Paul that's what I was going to ask you is could we issue a letter to the building inspector saying that when they come for an extension and at the start of 2025 we would issue an extension at that time after we've seen that that some work has been done with the tennis court and you know obviously you said the foundation would have been started is that possible Paul uh sure I mean uh I think the edification on the reason for the early extension makes sense if it's really just in a question of assurance to the building inspector that one's going to be granted I don't see any reason why uh you would not Grant this uh as long as it's in 30 days prior to the expiration date perhaps a letter will suffice I don't know Mr Ford if that uh satisfies you and your client and uh Sean but we could certainly submit a letter and you could come back again later and ask us for an extension next month if he says no I want the extension yeah no I I I appreciate that and uh as as to whether that will work can I just inquire what is the policy that we're running a file of by being before you today well it you've got about 10 more months before this expires so you have in our in our view usually an opportunity to make progress and then say this is what's been done and this is what remains to be done which is why we're asking for the extension well I I understand that but it there's no policy then that we're we're running Follow by requesting well it's just very far ahead of the game I would put I would also submit to you that it's to your interest that you could argue to to request these one-year extensions uh and when they're about due you get more time that way so but it's no there's no reason why you can't do it now it's just you're sort of losing some of your um a lot losing using quite a bit of the extension time that is due you if you were just to do it in one year increments when when they're when they come about well it would run from the expiration yeah we go from the expiration nothing would change if I I could just say this I if I could say this I think um uh attorney Ford and Sean I think uh you know maybe it sort of sends a message out to people that they can request early extensions up to a year before the expiration date and so things might not be done in a time of fashion and it would uh sort of take on a life of its own but I mean I I to be honest I don't see any reason if the commission decides to issue the extension today with the explanation they gave and the progress they've made I wouldn't have a problem with that and or do the letter I guess that's up to the commission um I think I would like to do a letter and if the building inspector says that they really need us to Grant an extension then you could come back you know we could reconsider and and vote the extension but I'd like to hear what other Commissioners feel and think at this point I for me I would be willing to do it now as opposed to wait two months and do this all over again because we're going to do it anyway yeah so I guess in some regards I'm like why don't we just get this done but I understand all of your arguments what they're asking for is it well we're only going to give one year we're only that's we have to make sure we're all have the same understanding that we're talking about a one-year extension here but I think attorney Ford are you asking for more than one year no no no no no okay all right then then I stand corrected I'm corrected all right by the same token I'm fine with the letter to if that's what we choose they don't lose anything so it's a year the EXT will be an extension to the expiration date so if we approved an extension today it would go until February 3rd 2026 that date would would not change it it's a one-year extension to the expiration date correct that's correct that's all we're looking for Eric how do you feel I I I'm fine with it Bob yeah I'm fine just knowing that knowing there's only two more extensions after that leas all right I'm fine then let's entertain a motion to extend for one year I moved that we extend the order of conditions for 367 4 and 77 Sears Point Road to February 3rd 2026 second okay Elise I Bob I I Eric I Cheryl I guess I say I as well all right and then Sean don't go anywhere because we have to revisit shadic yes because nobody on your team had seen the order and we we've gone over it but we want to know if you have anything but I'll I'll first let Paul reopen it uh well you tabled it so I don't think under Robert's Rules I have okay good reopen it but you might just uh why don't you make a motion to uh uh reopen it reopen it or take it off the table un table it I move I untable there we go I moved that we untable 21 shadic Lane second Elise Bob hi Eric hi Cheryl hi I say I okay there we go Sean thank you all Sean Riley time Bond representing the applicant I thank you all for tabling uh the conversation till later I had uh another conservation meeting in uh with your compatriots in Barnstable earlier so thank you for uh pushing this to the end for me uh I have read the order of conditions um the draft order and uh there were a few items that we had discussed in the hearing and I just wanted to make sure we all landed in the same place um it is restoration and not mitigation we had a reduction of 252 Square ft of coverage so I think we came um we agreed that it was to be called restoration um typically we're not uh you haven't in the past required monitoring reports for things that are essentially voluntary restoration uh of bare areas um and I see that there are monitoring reports uh within the order of conditions um and also the uh discussion about the removal of the KN weed and the invasives and I think we landed on that we were it would be a never- ending battle uh because we couldn't Chase it across the line so we were just going to um let that part of the uh the project go that scope of work go and the last piece I think you've got coer roles at the very uh near the end of the order of condition yeah we removed that we did remove that yeah oh oh at the very bottom oh okay we do need to remove that then um yeah and we had discussed not weed but we knew it the property owners didn't wish to manage it exactly and that you were putting the wall that it was sort of felt that the wall would hopefully keep the not weed out from your mitigation areas and we all said we are hoping that maybe in the future they will decide to uh remediate that right we're seeing a lot of that now all right was there anything else no everything else looked great oh that's good then did you find everything Bob it'll take me a while it'll take me a while to all right but I'll work on so as amended if we can have a motion as will be amended yeah I move that we approve the order of conditions for 21 shadic Lane as amended okay Eric are you seconding second Elise I Bob hi Eric I Cheryl I and I say I all right that's all set thank you very much go Bruins Sean go Bruins on all right Paul next thank you item okay thank you madam chair um next on the agenda is um something under unforeseen items uh brought before the commission this is the emergency certification for 97 Tippy run uh tr97 tipy run trust is the applicant map 14 A3 parcel 2-b this is a request for an emergency certification stline protection stabilization uh just by way of explanation for the general public um they have resubmitted uh a new plan to address the shoreline protection based on the results they found from test Bings and so forth and so on so we'll let them get into it but uh that's what we're dealing with here is just this uh same issue of the emergency certification uh and they've got a new proposal to put before you great and there's Katherine yes hi Katherine hi Catherine hi Katherine Ricks with tyan Bond here um and I know there's a couple of my colleagues on as well that will help with the explanations but if I can share my screen of course I am going to let's see pull up a presentation that some of you have seen so we have a shoreline at 96 7 tipy oh and it's not okay so just a general overview of the project we were retained by the client um back in October we've done some survey preliminary design additional survey it's consistently changing out there as we know above the water line it's been eroding and we have seen additional scour below the water line as well we've submitted to Cape Cod Commission for the dri modification which was done in January we've resubmitted with this new redesign last week we've submitted with you guys back in January for the emergency and now this redesign we submitted last week we've also followed up with Massachusetts D waterways with the previous one and the new redesign and with the Army Corps of Engineers previously and with the new redesign so just a quick aerial history of it you can see when you look look at the Barrier Island here how back in 2017 this was a pretty secluded area and then obviously there was the storm in 2017 later on that took out the Barrier Island and it changed drastically and opened up this portion of the shoreline and you can see here it has tightened in the area of 97 tilp which is on this screen that Barrier Island continues to roll over and get closer and closer which tightens the area of Flo and it has since caused an extreme amount of erosion and the revetment at the site to slip down the bank into the water back in October is that orange View and then it went to December is the red line and the green is the survey that we did in February and what you can see is that the the pocket the scour pocket has gotten deeper and come closer to the Shoreline so the existing conditions and the red line there is the outline of what was historically the revetment the seaword section of the revetment there and you can see that it eroded away and fell down the slope and previously when we submitted the emergency it was for a vertical sheet pile wall with toe protection in that we were hoping that that would prevent the erosion there has been some comments from czm and other agencies that they don't want a vertical structure there causing more impact to the Shoreline uh AB budding to the South so we've done a redesign and what we are doing is going to provide a what's considered a dumped rip wrap that will go down the bank below the water line and above the water line like inner title and above will be what your typical revetment is so a continuation of the revetment that's going the other three properties to the north down to here and continue that revetment around the corner and this is the section view of it so you can see the smaller dumped rip wrap is kind of below the water line going down to that minus 40 and then above is a revetment which is what you the typical revetment that you see along some of the shorelines here the dumped rip W is going down to the minus 40 and I know some questions have been why if we think that that's going to be enough and what we saw in the borings that we took out there is that there is a clay layer at about min-40 and Clay is not going to erode like sand erod so we think we've kind of hit that bottom spot of the scour hole and that that this will be enough of the dumped rip wrap to help prevent the flow the velocity of the flow there from scouring out the lower portion of the bank and above is the revetment which is for the wave impact in the area so if there are any questions on the proposed work thank you um you're welcome anybody have questions I just have a quick question so does this mean that that extends 130 ft out from where the revetment starts to where that part that you're the rip wrap part that you're dropping underwater extends is it is that what the key is at the bottom or am I missing yes so and you can see it depends on which section we go by but yes so this is where the scour hole is here and it will when they place this this rip wrap it will go down to uh the scour hole which is about here if you can kind of see how these Contours are more centered in this area here that is what we are going to go down to comments in the audience wow uh not to put him on the spot but Ted just walked in do you have anything to say about it no okay he's just observing just wanted to make sure question I'm sorry did Ted chime in yeah Ted's here but no he did not chime in we tried oh now he's he might be saying my chiming is just let you know that I am aware of the project and if you have questions I'll try to respond this is a difficult situation we all know yes um it's a extensive project the footprint um I think that's been highlighted um you know if the vertical sheeting is not a viable uh option I I honestly don't have an alternative way to approach it other than sort of what they're proposing do I still have concerns about this location and the ultimate stability of here yes but I think that's shared by everybody um I don't have an alternative that would be you know at least from my perspective you know a better way to approach it right now okay thank you anybody here have questions yes Bob I have a few questions then we spent about a year Katherine on the adjoining revetments as you as you will recall and the the lot of the discussion was about um along the top of those rements placing permeable Elements which we did arrive at that uh design I is this is this is and I also recall last time for the Emergency request at this project I thought that there was an emergency request for a part portion of the revent you come back later but maybe I'm not remembering this correctly come back later for maybe the portion that's further up the slope is that happening here at all or is this does this represent the sum total of the um we're we're still going to look at the at that South side at the end of the revetment we're still going to look at maybe some soft solution or some beach nourishment not just kind of end it but that'll be in the full notice of intent right now we're focusing on the structure and as well when we did the vertical seaw wall we went up to a plus 8 here with this rip wrap what we're doing is pretty much what we have on 75 if you remember since the bank doesn't go up to 18 we went on 27 we went to plus 20 cuz the Coastal Bank top of bank is at plus 20 and on 59 we come from plus 20 down to + 16 with then the articulated block going from 16 up to 17 and going back in Inland so that continues on 75 and what on here we're doing is now we're coming up to the plus 16 we're not going up to the plus 18 or the plus 20 but we are including some additional rip wrap behind that or some sandfill behind there and an 11t Crest on that revetment not just a simple 3ft wide Crest we extended that Crest a little on the revetment to uh accommodate that scour protection that we need at the top because your our our wave analysis determined that the waves can come up to the plus 20 so just like we have that articulated block on 5975 WE widen the crest on this one and filling in behind it all right let me repeat back to what to what I think I heard you say just to make sure I got it um you will be coming back with a fuller plan and and you will and that plan will include some of the same permeable elements at the top am I hearing that right I didn't hear right so this one on this property what we did instead of going up to plus 16 and only having a short or a a short withd at the top of the revetment we're extending that revetment top width to 11 an 11t Crest so it'll be 11t wide at the top instead of a a short width because of the scour protection when we did the vertical seaw wall we were going up to plus 18 and our wave analysis has plus 20 in this area but with going with just the revetment like we did on 59 and 75 we are only going up to the plus 16 which was kind of had what we had discussed when we were going for okay the re permits for the other revetments was only going up to 16 because the banks in this area are a little bit um lower elevation then over at 27 till so it' be going up to 16 correct okay and then your 11 ft goes back into the property correct and then what is it that's beyond further into the property after the 11 ft I can't tell what is that sand yes we have sand fill there right now okay how does this material get out there cuz there's no beach to like bring out Machinery so how are you actually going to get that there bares yeah Catherine can you can you go to the picture that shows the the amount the just my mind is kind of blown with this the the map that shows the the the the edging that one thank you so that entire area to follow Cheryl's Point that's kind of light gray and looks like a bunch of little Stones that's all 3 feet of rip wrap that's going that whole area am I understanding this right correct it's all rip wrap and that's because of the this so that rip wrap at the bottom which is you know below the high tide line below the water line right is because of the scour that's been occurring due to the flow the velocity of the flow in there and when they place it they're going to place it at slack Tides when the flow is the not at full velocity because of how fast it does run through there which has is which is what's been causing the erosion at the bottom and if we don't place that rip wrap there you're just going to continue to see the undermining of the revetment up on the top of the slope so we're rebuilding the floor of the ocean basically that so so as this to the side of the yeah we're kind of rebuilding the side of the channel we're protecting the side of the channel has this been done before I mean has mother has not in chadam I I mean not in chadam but it's more of what you would see um on a a river or a stream that has a high flow okay this is more of what you would see there because it's protecting against that that scour of of the side of the bank okay it's not the wave protection is the revetment above the water line okay I qu how long does this take oh Dan do you have an estimate on how long we think this is gonna take I think um Dan's on the line he can yeah Dan chicle uh project manager time Bond um we're thinking around three months to do this um OB obviously it's a job with complex Logistics and really the main challenge of the job is getting all the material out there um so yeah I think about three months a very short answer so as far as I know previously when you did the emergency CT we had to wait for everybody to give you the proper permits do we have to wait again for that whole permitting process again since it's a new plan I believe Paul I believe we have talked about doing that but we have submitted it now to everyone whereas before we were still trying to get this submitt together for the Army Corps because their emergency submitt is also a full submitt to their under their GPS so now we have and we've also had meetings with every Agency on this new redesign so everything's we're already getting comments back and we're already responding to those so I don't believe it's going to be waiting as long as it was um previously but we'll have to wait with the issuance of if if we vote to approve this emergency CT we have to wait to issue until you've got all the rest in place correct uh Paul could we do that again just waiting on yes okay we could do that again you have 30 days to Abate the emergency and within that 30-day period I think uh you're supposed to file the notice of intent for the remainer of the project with uh within I think it's 21 days I did find a reference in the D regulations that um an emergency CT can be extended by the commissioner I'm a little concerned about the comment that you know I guess the comment that three months is going to be necessary is it your position that you can um get the uh the rip wrap in and and stabilize the the to for lack of a better term the toe um in that 30-day period And I'd also be interested in any comments that you we'd like to see the comments that you're getting from uh the core I mean I I don't think this has been done anywhere else maybe the PO thing I can think of is the capod canal but uh you know it's last time we were here they told us that it has stabilized because of a clay air they did some borings and so I I guess the other question I have is do you feel it has stabilized at this point and then the followup question is um can you get this work the rip wrap in and enough to Abate the emergency the work that's necessary within that 30 days because that's a concern that's all we have is 30 days and other than going to the commissioner at the D I don't know how to extend it we'd have to reissue it again okay um so for the clay layer and the scour we don't think it's going to get deeper but that doesn't we do think it will continue to move toward the shoreline that scour we just don't think it'll get deeper that's we're hoping that clay L clay layer keeps it there but it is going to continue to move toward the house if we don't protect that Shoreline there but we believe that once we put this on there it's not going to get deeper to where this is going to then Slough off and then for the 30 days I it like Dan said we we think this whole thing will take about 3 months now it'll really depend cuz they are going to have to work with the tide right because they're on the barges yeah the weather for the barges the tide CU you can only really place this in here during the slack tide so that's going to be the concern uh on the timing on the construction and as for the questions we're receiving and once we respond we'll also include you but it was um the questions on the construction protocol of how they're going to place the material and we are getting responses we just need one discussion with the contractor before we submit that uh construction protocol on how they are going to place this under the water I I I in the inter I suppose we can explore you know how to extend it if it's possible through the D or whether we have to reissue it but I do see you know given weather conditions Tides possible storms just the difficulty in the in the nature of what it is that you're doing working out barges that you may exceed the 30 days here um so is it your intent to sort of get the the uh the rip wrap in first and will that really take care of um you know the stabilization so that you can move on to the full-blown notice of intent and the rest of it yes and we'll be working once we get the contractor gets all the approvals they'll start working on that and we'll be working inhouse on the notice of intent submitt with the intention of getting that in within that time period so if this let's say you had all permits everything was great and by June 1st can you do this in the summer or I mean or there I mean this is an area where they're voters it it's going to be difficult I guess with the navigation we will have to work with the Harbor Master on that okay but we haven't received any time of year restrictions or any comments on that from any of the agencies yet um I believe other than talking with the Harbor Master and the navigation piece with the boers that are out there um I believe we can still continue to do the project okay I was just curious another way to look at it is to perhaps get the notice of intent and um get it approved and then work within the scope of that notice of intent and if that notice of intent includes the work that we're looking at on the screen right now so be it you're working under a notice of intent at that point you've got plenty of time yes yeah we are going to try once we get this once we get through the emergency portions then we are working on the full notice of intent with this plan okay thank you Katherine I just had one last question um uh so you'll be having a an excavator on a barge I would imagine yes so where does it everything park at the end of the day oh Dan do you remember where Robert BR said they were going out of for this for for um where they're coming from barge overnight or and the excavator I guess we'd have to confirm with them I mean there's certainly a lot of space it'll be a spud barge they'll be using to stay in place down there um we certainly confirm that okay that with them that's really kind of up to them where they store it exactly it'll depend where space is available I hate to see the excavator as part of the uh project down there you know yeah on the floor not not not on the beach it would be on the barge it'll keep some part from eroding I got one question Karen go ahead Bob um Katherine you're planning on any new vegetation at the uh top of the bank I think we are going to have to work with the Land Management Company on mitigation at the top we have discussed that with the owner and once we have these quantities in place and know where the areas are that can be revegetated then we will have a Land Management Company similar to one of the other properties on tipy um come in and do a a plan for mitigation okay thank you that'll be part of the noi correct correct you said it's Robert bow doing the project yeah Robert bow is the contractor out there at this point ready to do the work and they've already started they know the quantities they know the new design and they've started to make sure that they can Source the materials oh good right and this is there like proper I mean is there like odd insurance type situation to be out there or with excavators on a barge I I just didn't know how it worked it's I guess your liability covers whether you're in the ocean or you're on land I guess I don't know they're yeah they're they're set up to work yeah from barges they drive piles for a living this I know they do I've seen that yeah yeah are are there any shellfish or eelgrass issues with laying that floor of rip wrap so far out into the channel we haven't had any comments back on that but one one thing we've brought up to the other agencies is that the flow through there is so strong that you wouldn't be able to have any shellfish grow in that area or any uh habitat for Eel Grass and there wasn't any eelgrass or salt marsh in that direct area previously I know and to the west of the property there's a lot of clamming Yeah well yeah I I would I would share your thoughts on that but at the same time if it's mapped habitat we have to deal with it one way or another so Ted is going to address it it sounds like m yeah I don't want to speak for the Constable I would agree that it is highly unlikely that the habitat currently is viable in its current condition I mean any Eel Grass that may have been there is long gone um likewise any shellfish it would be more likely that this area will be going through changes and in fact this this may ultimately get reburied with sediment and the new sediment layer on top would provide a more viable habitat you know in those conditions than than what's out there right now again I'm not thrilled to see a whole carpet of stone under there but you know it's down deep enough and it will likely be buried as the whole system you know progresses and quote you won't know it's there maybe 10 20 30 years in the future okay thank you any other questions well it appears to me that we don't really have an option of not approving this like it's it's more like we're being informed that this is what's being done than asked if we approve yeah the the house has to be protected well that's you know it is interesting what we've done to this Coastline to protect four houses which is rather astonishing and I'm just I don't know I so yes I I stand informed um but I can't say that I'm not worried about what's going to happen around the corner for all those other places where we all walk and um as we go over to Hardings Beach are we going to be building walls all the way to Hardings I don't know so so I do have concerns but I also understand that this house must be worth an awful lot of money well and we do have the issue of everything that's falling into the ocean there that shouldn't be in there and we do have to stop it somehow or when do we start retreating and just doing oh no I'm not disagreeing I'm just saying we're trying to I think protect more trees and Etc from going into the water and making it more dangerous for everybody who's on the water any other questions comments I'm ready to move it along yeah me too all right then I think we can entertain a motion I move that we approve the emergency certification for 97 tipy run second Elise hi Bob hi Eric hi Cheryl I and I say I thank you you very much Madam chair I just I just want to indicate I'll I'll put a date in working with Catherine and on the other agencies so that we have a a date that is um workable and all the other permits are in line with that okay thank you dat y um thank you before we can you take pictures along the way I mean of the project it'll certainly be good for uh you know for education education we will have lots of pictures yes yeah they were originally so I think they will now um One Last Thing Before We adjourn tomorrow 11:30 30 Sears Point 12:30 26 Salt Pond we have two site visits just reminding everybody okay then I think we're ready to adjourn I move we adjourn is there another uh no no that one um was taken off okay second second Elise I Bob you're really good at this thank you oh all right Eric hi Cheryl hi and Bob I and I say I thank you moving up on down the road for e