##VIDEO ID:UFhBh3-_ZSI## e e e e e e e e good afternoon good afternoon everyone to the October one meeting good afternoon out a practice good afternoon everyone welcome to the October 1 meeting of the chadam finance committee pursuant to Governor Hy's Mar 29 2023 signing of the acts of 23 extending certain covid-19 measures adapted during the state of emergencies suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law this meeting of the chadam finance committee is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order reminder the persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 945 4410 again 5 08 945 4410 and enter conference ID 367 73933 pound sign 367 73933 pound sign or one may join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda well this is a live broadcast and simcast on chadam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide realtime access we'll post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible all right we are are going to have a little roll call but uh then we're going to continue U consider a proposed amendment to the town's budget and financial management policies so Tommy Don here Barbara Madison here John papalo I know is absent Joan spra here Andy young here christien Andres negative Tracy Shields negative Eric Whitley here and the chair is present okay um consider amending the town's budget and financial management policies Carrie would you like to start us out please uh sure thank you Mr chair you um so this was brought forward by um the select board member Aden necastro and it's um an amendment to our financial policies on page 11 by adding a um the paragraph called it's for proposition two and a half debt exclusion the town will strive to limit to circumstances of financial excy or housekeeping purposes the exclusion of debt under proposition 2 and A2 Mass General Law chapter 59 section 21 C in Reliance on a ballot question approval that occurs at an election that precedes town meeting action to authorize the proposed borrowing not withstanding any legal authority to make such Reliance so that is basically what's going on can uh can you provide us some context I know selectman Castro is here perhaps we can ask Dean to come up to the mic and provide some context or background behind uh the proposal do you want to go or do you want me to I'm okay okay I was just going to say this was kind of brought up um just for the last two ballot questions that were authorized um so at town meeting they failed and then at the ballot they passed so then they brought forward another special town meeting to try to you know to see if the town people would pass right and that's happened what twice in the last three years I think twice in twice in the last year twice y with respect to the COA Y and then the recent vote Dean would you like to edify us with um your thinking behind this please good afternoon everyone thank you Mr chairman and thank you for um calling a meeting of the finance committee so promptly after this has been um referred to you by the select board that's fine the select board has not taken a position on this yet they simply uh honored my request unanimously to refer this to you and to the town's financial advisers for uh a recommendation or comment and I think Carrie will have something to say about where the financial advisers stand on this um so I submitted this um uh and I was inspired by the um two special Town meetings that were called within approximately one year's time uh after um a bonding um article had failed to get a two-thirds vote at the annual town meeting and the select board called a special town meeting um after that to take advantage of a successful ballot question as you know they're basically two things involved in these borrowings one is whether to um make the borrowing which requires a two third's vote of the legislative body of the town and that takes place at town meeting and uh a simple majority vote of the voters um on a ballot question to exclude the borrowing from proposition 2 and a half so it doesn't get embedded in the tax in the tax rate um permanently and um I voted to call the special town meeting after 1610 Main Street was defeated by one vote uh including a a Rec a recount a reconsideration of one by one vote back a year and a half ago or so um and uh I would have call I would have voted to call that special town meeting even if the vote had been one vote in the uh in the other direction um I did not vote to call this most recent special town meeting um but I did support the article uh when the meeting was called um the traditional way that chadam has conducted these um borrowings is to first go to town meeting and get a vote get a two-thirds vote and then have the ballot question some towns do it in reverse we have not it's perfectly legal to do it um as long as in in Reverse as long as um the ballot question is consistent with the article uh in the case of um the special town meeting for 1610 Main Street there was a pure coincidence or almost a perfect coincidence between in the language uh for the uh ballot question and the article that came before town meeting voters in this most recent one the ballot question was um more inclusive of multiple projects as you recall for that $ 11 million bond issue the ballot questions are generally um non-specific so um I don't think it's a great policy I don't think it's um it it inspires much confidence in in the taxpayers and voters of the town to be calling these special Town meetings on a routine basis I do think there are circumstances where a special town meeting should be called and that's within the discretion of the select board and in the case of the most recent special town meeting we had an honest difference opinion among the board members it was called by a three to2 vote Mr Mets and I devoted not to call the special town meeting I personally wasn't convinced that the article which I supported was urgent enough to justify not waiting until May others felt differently um and I respect that so it occurred to me that something should be done so that we don't get into a habit of doing this every time somebody's unhappy because they're borrowing um didn't get the two-thirds a town meeting and they wanted a second shot without having to go to another town election and um the options were for dealing with this were to prohibit it out right which I don't think is good policy I think there should be exceptions um and also that would require in my opinion I didn't consult with Town Council but I'm convinced it would have required a charter change uh which could happen I as an individual select board member under state law in Massachusetts can can initiate a charter change and it has to go to town meeting whether the the select board wants to or not um no one's ever done that I've thought of doing that occasionally from time to time on some issue or another perhaps before I finish my time as a select board member I might be doing that sometime but in this instance I don't want to prohibit this practice I I want to Simply discourage it as a as a routine um Endeavor so that's the purpose behind it the language is not a Prohibition it's really aspirational um I referred to it in the cover memo that I think was disseminated to you I won't read the whole memo um as hortatory in nature um and I don't I don't wish to tie the hands of the Town um Town officials or the select board I ex I intentionally use the word exigency um and um because I don't want want to limit it I don't want to limit um the exceptions to Emergen situations of emergency and excy is a broader category that includes situations that might might not be em emergent but might be urgent uh and I also think there may be some housekeeping purposes for for which uh the town would be Pro prudent to call a special town meeting in these circumstances so what I propose is to amend the uh the town budget and financial management policies over which the select board um has Authority uh on your recommendation I think traditionally we've gotten two votes one from your board and one from our board whenever we've amended these policies and we amended them Rec relatively recently so that's what's before you I'm not here to um frankly I'm not here to urge you to vote in any either direction I'm just trying to explain what my thinking was I'm happy to answer any questions I will point out for information that the the Cape Cod Chronicle felt this was a significant enough issue that they effectively endorsed it in a recent editorial but that's just for your information so that's what I have if there are any questions I'm happy to to answer them terrific thank you Dean Carrie anything you looked at this um yeah so um the financial advisers um responded and they think that this is permissive and should be fine and um Town Council said it's certainly legal especially where it's just a non-binding policy um I don't know if Jill has anything to add but those are the responses we've received perfect thank you let's check into the town managers if she has anything to add Jill are you there okay maybe not right now questions or com am here for some reason my fingers are sticky no why um can you hear me we can hear you okay uh kri just to elaborate I I think Town Council Jay had said something more and I I just don't have it in front of me I just have that it's certainly legal especially where it is a non-binding policy um let me see Jo W Cary looks for that can can you sure edify us generally on what you think Jim may have added yeah so when we go out for our bonding the uh S&P Global does review our finan our budget and financial policies and so it's important that um whatever we put in there that we we comply with and if something is um you know permissive then we just need to make sure the wording is in there appropriately otherwise I don't want um a note against our our bond rating for non-compliance with the town's budget and financial policies and I don't think that will be the case here I just wanted to note that because that's always important whenever we update our our budget and financial policies agree so I have no issue with this okay thank you so Town Council also said with that said as Council I am always wary of setting a policy that limits even superficially the options of a select board that I represent that's all okay thank you comments or questions Joan please yes thank you yes thank you Mr chairman um I believe that the towns people have a right to petition the selectman for a special town meeting and I also believe that the selectman already have the responsibility of making the decision of whether to put that uh request uh and and and ask for a a special town meeting the selectman when they are elected by the people uh take a a pledge of responsibility to these people who voted them into office and I think we don't need to remind them of that and uh by adding special language to make sure they watch their people and q's before they uh attempt to set up a special meeting I think they already have that responsibility I see no need from my point of view to change the language of the financial management policies so I would vote against this thank you Tracy please thank you Mr chair I agree and that I'm I'm would vote against this to me our legislative process is already sufficiently cumbersome um and I don't mean that in necessarily a negative way like it it it should be to affect major change or financial changes um but if anything as a legislative body I I believe that we should Endeavor to be as responsive and Nimble as possible and given that this is is legal I don't see why we would even if it is permissive um intend to suggest limitations or try to discourage um future bodies from responding to to the the town's people I think to me doesn't seem like um like some great wrong was was um was affected I think in both of the cases of the recent special town meeting the general will of the town was actualized um and in my you know perspective and how I view and interact with with people in town in terms of it being a positive or negative view of of the outcome reflecting the majority of people um I will say I tend to um in general think that a voting minority already has sufficient power in in elections in that you know I'm that it is a 2/3 I get that um but especially in a situation where to me this was an exigent this most recent because we were up against a timeline so I think to me this this verbage would encourage the town to take longer and perhaps need to spend more money to have a additional elections when they're not necessary thank you Barbara I can see the reasons um that both Joanne and Tracy have outlined however and possibly if it hadn't happened twice in the last year I could be convinced to think differently but since it has um I am going to support this um whether it's legal or not and I understand that it is legal it's not a good look when a percentage of our Town's people think that we're trying to circumvent their will that was presented a town meeting by holding a town a special town meeting later when the same people are not there and we do manage to get around what the town meeting initially said all right thank you Andy D see your hand go up um yeah I'm curious about the question of the town's voters an ability to petition for a special town meeting how this would affect that I'm not Town Council but I used to be um I don't think it would affect it at all because the the Town's people have um right under stay law I think it may even be in the Constitution but I'm not sure uh to um call for a special town meeting with 200 signatures at any time so I think that I've you know been previously reported saying essentially this is a political decision with this going either way um now meeting and you know do not support any given article have even more people to showing up to vote then we get a town meeting and I've to them special town meeting seemingly of and so Administration and the selectman lumped ability were thoughtful and I think the selectman were thoughtful as they should all the extendes make the oath of office insist that they have even more setting Financial policy is so I will vote against this thetive body of town town meeting voted and um it's legally permissible verbage is less about the fight that the that the voter has the taxpayer who's paying for whatever goes on that Ballot or whatever goes on the town meeting warrant is the right to vote that because they're going to be paying for it and they don't want to pay maybe for a bunch of projects when they only own want one and this the by asking for another meeting to do it the way they want to do it is just giving them the right uh no just recognizing the right they already have that's the only right taxpayers have against an Administration or a board of Selectmen to get things the way they want them because they're the ones who pay the bills for all of this and to to tap the selectman on the shoulder and say well now make sure you study this thoroughly that's insulting to me to this the voters who voted the selectman into office to make these kind of decisions they're supposed to be careful about what they do that's that's to be understood within their their job so uh to to look at this as though the town meeting that the voters ask for too many special Town meetings I think is utterly wrong they have every right if they're up in arms and think they need something corrected they have every right to ask for it to be corrected although I I will point out that it's not always that the voters are asking for special Town meetings in recent history half of the ones one of two if I'm not mistaken was called for by the select board following the defeat of the first initiative at town meeting so anyway just a footnote uh other comments observations we have a disagreement that's not a first that's what what we here for Andy please um I was thinking about a slightly different question can any given issue that brought up in a town can it bind a future town meeting I'm not sure I understand your question oh well one of the things that a few people have said is how dare the town bring up an issue that's already been decided by town meeting well you just had another town meeting and it decided the issue differently different issue uh yes 11.4 versus 4 sure on the other hand it's at the core it still had the same single issue right and I I I mean I I think philosophically it's difficult to imagine the town's legislative body being able to bind a future town meeting in other words prohibit them from from dealing with something right that they themselves have already in their minds dealt with yeah um see that I guess from from my perspective maybe we're getting too too too far into the weeds maybe this ultimately is a timing issue to me right it's a question do we do this in September after a May prospective defeat or do we do it eight months later the following May doesn't preclude further action refinement whatever it just kicks it down the road a little bit which may not always be such a bad idea to provide more time for consideration reflection refinement Etc so Joan I to me it's an issue you decide to do it or not to do it if it's if it's not good now it's not good six months from now if it's good now it's good six months from now it's not a good issue it's it's against democracy well that's your view obviously a difference of opinion that's what my microphone's for Tracy please Ju Just as a comment on the the question of binding a future meeting that seems to me very counter Democratic um you know because the circumstances change perhaps the financial picture changes the demographic has changed like the actual body of who is chadam and who is paying taxes may have changed um and that can change you know whether we're talking about a few months or 10 years but how I guess I don't understand how again maybe we're too far in the weeds but I don't understand how this is binding I don't understand that any of this is binding uh that remark was mostly in response to people who were simply out expressed outrage of the idea that a future town meeting changed changed their decision um sorry can happen that's what town meeting does exactly and and so you know but but I I think we are getting a little too far into the Ws on that I mean it's it's not a you know to I extend you know Mr chairman I accept more of your argument over timing than anything else right it's it's not necessary to bring it up at a special town meeting I mean truly unless it is something of extremely pressing nature you why bother doing that save it up for the annual town meeting presumably many are the same people will still be there and everybody has had a chance to thoroughly work through the arguments thank you Eric please is it time to make a motion Mr I would uh I would I would move that um the finance committee support the language change um as presented to us today okay do we have we have a second all right so a vote in favor of supporting selectman Castro's proposed amendment to the town's financial and budget policies Tracy no Andy yes I'm going by bench rank rather than which on my list Tommy yes thank you uh Barbara yes Joanne no Eric yes and the chair is in favor so six to one sorry two I'm sorry God came over don't ask me to balance my checkbook apparently all right thanks Tommy you can be the next chair um all right anything further uh that anybody wants to bring up we have a calendar I gather we have a proposed budgetary calendar that uh did did everybody in the committee get a carry do we now no but I can send it out if you could please that' be great um and then we'll have to come up with some dates as well for meetings yeah I think don't we have we start with a budget kickoff that I think is October 22nd we've got the budget Summit later this month correct October 22nd and then I think the the budget will get circulated around January 16 or 18 yep and it'll start off start off from that we've got about four maybe five weeks to get our initial recommendations back um so we'll get the calendar circulated to everybody so I know what's going on yep I'll send that out today but we already know we need to circle the 22nd yeah okay yep budget Summit yes be there be square okay I'll take a motion to adjourn so moved thank you Tommy in favor yes Barbara yes Joanne yes Andy yes Tracy yep Eric yes sharers in favor that's that's a better way to do it thank you guys thank you Carrie thank you Dean thank you for