##VIDEO ID:6f3cZH05gIM## e e e e e e you're on Frank you're on good morning hi I'm Frank massina and this is the October 15 2024 meeting of the the chadam historical commission before we start we have a couple of notices unknown participant is now joining this meeting is being recorded will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and OnDemand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chairman seeing none pursuant to Governor Haley's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending extending certain uh covid-19 measure adopted during the state of emergency and suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law 3820 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chatam historical commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the procceedings as provided for four in the order a rem reminder that persons who would like to listen to the meeting while it is in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 945 4410 conference ID 767 38818 hashtag or join a meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link on the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chadam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for Real Time access we will record we will post the record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible okay having said that uh I have to do the the roll call but I will acknowledge uh before we do the roll call that one of our DM members Steven Burling game who was the clerk of the uh commission had passed away last week and so uh I know we all feel pretty sad finding about out about this very recently Steve was a a very good member of the commission and very U very involved in the uh in and how we proceeded and had some great ideas uh I love sparring with him but uh it was always good natured and uh uh just going to miss Steve so having said that uh roll call Bob yes Steve excuse me I did it didn't I Nancy broing game Nancy Barb here Stephanie Hamilton here Sandy Porter here Janet Tennyson here Robert Stevens hereis here I apologize a little bit of a hook KCK up there G to miss Steve okay um we have the minutes and right now I got to start before I even discuss the minutes Annie you did a great job and you know that whole discussion as it relates to uh the discussion you know the infamous discussion as it relates to the chimneys you I think you captured both sides very well and I do appreciate that very good it U you know someone reading what happened at the meeting gets a good sense of what happened having said that any other comments or questions of concerns on the minutes I'd like to move that we accept the minutes of October 1st 2024 thank you very much second second thank you okay a quick roll call Bob yes Nancy abstain I wasn't here yes Sandy yes Janet yes Rob yes the chair votes yes so I guess uh you abstain thank you Nancy appreciate that all right all right we have uh effectively two applications to be heard this morning and a couple of uh old new business things to discuss briefly uh and not much else on the agenda so having said that we'll proceed to the first application application 24026 1314 Main Street Unit 10 this is a u a notice of a change or as we refer to as a partial demolition of a structure which uh meets the basic requirements of the chapter 158 which is the town of uh chadam bylaw it is more than 75 years old and I know there were some questions of why am I here and unfortunately or fortunately uh these these units as a lot of the units in town have begun to cross the threshold of 75 years and as a result of that it forms under the jurisdiction of the uh historical commission uh just for members of the public and for the uh and the members of the commission I think the map that uh Christina put out showing the uh compulation of homes in the uh the I guess they refer to it is Waterview colony and there's two or three uh uh Colony communities there in chadam which are really uh quite interesting and we haven't actually done form BS on the individual homes but we have done an area form of the of the cottages and uh we just recently updated that uh with our good friend Eric D Dre and in 2016 uh having said that uh Frank could I interpose a question you did not mention whether Mr Stevens is voting today I'm sorry you didn't mention whether Mr Stevens is our voting member today yes I apologize thank you very much well by definition Robert you are full voting member and will participate in and in addition to participating and also be a voting member of the commission we have seven members person I'm sorry um this is going back to the minutes and I this is just going back to the minutes I apologize but I wasn't here but I glanced over them as we were sitting here and at 368 stage Harbor or 369 stage Harbor there is a note in the minutes that a motion was made and two motions were made in relation to being in the National register district and I think that's eligible National register District does it say eligible no it says a contributing structure in a national register district and that wouldn't be referred to the Cape Cod Commission I just think that that it can be referred to the Cape Cod Commission okay yes it can well sorry we're going backwards I apologize so we when we eligible District we are still when we have a district that's eligible but not yet created we still go through the district well vo we can discuss that okay I just making sure yeah yeah absolutely but if it says did it say El does it say eligible an no okay okay so we're going to need I apologize uh 6 1340 we're going to go backwards a bit so we need another motion to amend the minutes which would just approve to include the word eligible in the uh in the minutes is so move an i second thank you Nancy Eagle Eye just okay all right quick roll call Bob yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and Nancy abstains I do all right I apologize for that very simply without blabbering it in according to the cape card commission a uh a district which is in an eligible National registered District we're allowed to make a discretionary referral versus a mandatory referral there's a difference between a discretionary referral and a mandatory mandatary referral if it's more than 25% automatic referral to the Cape Cod Commission or other other elements okay thank you luckily I have a number of members of the commission who keep me on the straight and narrow okay I really apologize for that little bit of interruption so again 1340 Main Street uh we have the property owner here online can you speak up so we can't hear you or at least I can't hear you she's mut could they get the full picture of her on screen can you hear me now yes yes okay sorry about that I I had you on mute I'm sorry I I don't want to interrupt your call yes and can you introduce yourself so my name is um Tara dent and um my husband and I recently inherited this cottage from my parents and um we have a 27y old um son who has stal py was in a power wheelchair so we wanted to um want to tell you all that about me yet or no sorry I just went off um we were wanted to turn our deck into a sun room and that's what is allowed by the um Waterview Colony like homeos Association your allowed to turn your decks into sun porches so we thought we would try that so we have easy access into the house well i' I want to just preface all by thanking you very much for owning that little beautiful little cottage and uh and taking care of it as I as I prefaced in a couple of comments earlier this is just a a treasure Trove of uh historical we consider historical uh uh Cottages from an era in back in chadam you know when it was a cottage community and U and we just love the fact that you folks are taking care of it having said that I think I'm biasing my opinion but why don't we go so if the application is as as we see it you're really looking for a I would have to say relatively modest change to the back back of the cottage and I was interesting also that you and I didn't realize that you have Association that also approves your uh your changes correct right so right so you can't do any changes unless you get approval from the um trustees you know we have like a Board of Trustees that so all you have to file like a you know architectural change request form and then they approve it or or disapprove it or give you you know tell you what you need to do to get approved so yeah great so the one change we're allowed to make is uh Jacks into porches well I like a sun porch yeah I personally think that's wonderful because it provides an additional measure of I hate to use the word but I guess protection that suddenly this doesn't turn into a a mass development you know of uh of large homes in chadam and uh and by the way we have a couple of openings on historical commission if some of the members of your your architecture review board would like to come see here uh okay good to know pass the word I will I will definitely pass you need to be a full-time resident but you know we uh we do appreciate that all right thank you so um I think it's kind of straightforward does anybody have any questions or comments we start with Bob Robert I have a comment as some of you know I'm chair of the Town committee for people with disabilities and I think this is excellent idea parue use of a historic property and we want to encour encourage the use of we're maintaining historic properties and if we were to turn this down we would be doing exactly the opposite so I'm all in favor of it thank you very much Robert thank you well at the site visit the thing that stood out for me is is that most of these Cottages have already had this same or similar alteration to enclosing the deck to add square footage so it seems to me the house you know the horse is out of the barn if we had any problems with this thank you very much Sandy um I have no problem with it at all I just have a question you gave us a diagram showing footings do you have to put in new footings yeah I think but because it um my parents bought the house in 78 I was 13 so my dad built that deck so um I believe yeah we're GNA do the whole thing again just because of the age you know so yeah g to put new footings and okay yeah I like it thank you I love it actually so thank you Janet no I have no questions I think it's a great idea in fact that the association is so um cooperative and working together I mean the fact that it's pale they're all you know blend into the woods like it does just gorgeous so thank you thank you I totally agree with uh Bob uh it would be terrible if we did not allow this thank you very much um I I mean I agree with what's been said I just say for clarity that it's it's on the side of the house and once you add the sun room the exterior wall that is being shown on the left there the changes that are being made to that it's it becomes an interior walls so it's not going to be visible one way or the other right to the exterior once they build um the sun room and the new sun room has the door the exterior door then on the front that allows the egress entrance so um right I agree with what everybody said and just wanted to clarify because I think it took us a while to figure out that what's being demolished is now going to be an interior wall so whatever is being lost would not be visible anyway yeah well thank you very much we seem to have a pretty much unanimous opinion so now we've got to go through a couple of uh motions to uh to clarify and to F it out Bob Robert hey um you want to do I move the chatam historical commission and finds that the structure located at 13 Morty 1340 Main Street unit number 10 is historically significant because it is po are in part 75 years old or more and possesses architectural value or significance in terms of period and style in conjunction with a group of buildings or structures which is part of the water viiew um Colony okay we have a second please second thank you very much any other comments members of the public for or against the application seeing none okay Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much we appreciate your cooperation and uh coming before FR Frank we need another mo one more sorry about that sorry forget there's a part two Adam historical commission also finds that the proposed work to be done looks like uh September 18th 2024 will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose demolition delay I'll second thank you very much any comments for against the application Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much appreciate it thank you very much thank you I Tok everyone for to really consider this it means a lot to us it's nice to know people yeah can we can you do me a favor sure cuz the the report the uh technical people are banging on the window there and they just just introduce yourself and uh hi I'm uh Andrew Whit I'm Tera Dent's brother I'm also a trustee of Waterview Colony Condominium Association and uh I was just thanking uh everyone for the time they invested in this and the due diligence they took um we really appreciate it um it's nice when the town um takes time and really makes sure things are done on the up and up and I appreciate it very much and my my family does too well we appreciate your appreciation trust me because uh you know it's it nice guys we don't always get nice things but uh but we do and I I really do mean that we appreciate the fact that you know you guys are holding this Colony together and uh and hopefully you'll be here another 50 another 75 years just the same way and still the fact that you can enjoy it you know what what's all about Shadow thank you very much thank you bye now byebye thank you okay we have uh an application 2417 which is unknown participant is now exiting did I miss something no going that's all right uh 24017 75 hallway Street uh this application is going to be heard on the chapter 158 demolition delay bylaw as well as under the provision 12C of the cape card Commission regional policy plan for a structure situated in a national registered District okay uh this application has been around a while I gu originally is now exiting is that us or somebody else out there you're okay it's okay uh this application has been uh around for a while and uh We've continued it a number of times uh oh back since August 13th um I want to uh just preface this really came before the commission first in 2006 2007 and has been for us about six or seven times times and which there were changes which the commission found were although historically significant we did not make referral to the cap card commission this particular application which I do as a normal course of things when I have a contributing structure in the National registered District I consult with the preservation consultant Sarah Corf from the Cape Cod Commission over potential an application that could or could not be referred to the cape card commission and get her opinion so you have her comments back from uh August 8th where she commented about the uh the contributing structure and her thoughts about what we could or could not do and her opinion on how we could potentially resolve this uh situ situation having said that hi Mr Riley you know before we begin I noticed Mr aharn is in the audience and I want to thank you very much for the work you're doing on Stage harber Road it was finally nice to see that house getting buttoned up and and back uh I think it's going to really be uh a really nice addition to the street so anyway just the side Mr Riley H good morning Bill Riley on behalf of jonan barsamian and uh a little hyperbole there Frank I I don't think we've been here six or seven times but I know we've been here at least four times no the application six so the the uh this is a situation where uh this property was originally owned by The Whiting family and the last member of The Whiting family who owned it gu Nam Fairfield Whiting was uh a unique individual uh and so as the the house was significantly larger and was subject to uh loss as a result of erosion of the property in front of it so this property used to be another 100 feet out into the the water so and then once so they tore down parts of the building and then they took the remnant and boarded it up and did nothing with it for years while the while the the building suffered the kind of uh damage that happens to Waterfront structures that aren't properly cared for the barsamian family uh loved the location and the concept and so they bought the building from in the property from The Whiting family um at that time Fairfield was living in a trailer in a junkyard up in Vermont somewhere the uh and so at that time there was a meeting here I was not not representing the barians I think it was Michael Ford but I happen to be here how unusual uh in the the uh the concerns expressed by the members I particularly remember Don Aman talking about it uh that the only thing that was worth salvaging at that point was the framing of the building and so that's what the barians did the took off the sheeting the shingles the sheeting and rebuilt the building from the frame both in and out uh at that time the property was located in a in a flood plane so our ability to work on the building was very limited then FEMA changed their maps and mov the flood plane further away away from our building so that gave us the opportunity to elevate the building and put living space uh below the first floor uh and as time went on the family requirements of the barsamian grew uh they made uh you know further changes expanded the the first floor the main floor uh put the deck on the front um all the while of course the original framing Still Remains the when Sarah cff was consulted about this particular change or about the previous changes she indicated there were a couple of things that she thought were significant that should be preserved and Patrick's going to explain how those elements are still reserved they'd like to add another bedroom to the property on a what we call a second floor it looks like a third floor the uh so what would I like to do at this point is ask Patrick to come up and go through U the process he went through to come up with this design Bill what part of my comments do you consider hyperbole I mean the fact that this application the application been before us in 2006 was the first time yeah that this property is before us that's right so we've seen numerous changes and I don't consider that hyperbole that's just what the facts were bill you said seven you you said six or seven times we haven't been here six or seven times the application the property has been here six or seven times in fact I even asked you Bill I sent you an email and I said could you please count calculate the percentage of change to this property and you responded to me you have it you know so I I think I don't think it's hyperb built I'm trying to get to factual basis if in fact this commission decides to make a referral to the cape card commission the percentage of change since the original property was listed on a national register is a function of whether or not we can make a mandatory referral it's as simple as that and I don't consider it hyperb thank you all right Frank all right thank you very much Patrick can I ask a CL clarifying question about the application that we have before us yes just for somebody to answer at some point during your presentation is is what we have now the same same design that we received in August before it was continued no okay can you please exchange explain the differences when you give your presentation sure thank you so those of you who don't know me uh my name Patrick ah I'm sorry uh Patrick one second so the one I have is a is the current one that is the current one okay good sorry we letter was in relation to the LA but the letter we have from Sarah is in relation to the previous plan say that again the letter we have from Sarah with her input is in relation to the previous plan which has changed so I just just wanted to hear Sarah's email is from August and she looked at the prev the plans that were presented to us and well they had you had briefly seen them but you had not deliberated or anything on them and her email was from the plans that they first gave us in August okay so we have and now there has been changes since when did we get this get this um what fice uh some weeks ago I'm not sure one we this is dated October 15th that's the date that yeah today they were coming um I can check when of these came in I'm not sure I know I have one stamped somewhere let's try and clarify something Patrick why don't you introduce yourself and then we'll go formally for yes my name is Patrick Ahern uh architect and um I could Frank perhaps give you a little Clarity on that um so we received uh and Robbie spoke to Sarah on that most second most recent application and that we wanted to respond to some of the concerns that were brought forward in terms of the height of the uh uh addition and so on so that the plans that we're presenting today reflect uh the commentary that we received and we've made adjustments to be responsive to what those comments were okay all right so I guess we're going to have to go back to Sarah again I'm sorry we delayed that we don't have to do it now we can continue okay but I still would like to sure give Sarah's comments one more time right okay fine okay great so if we could uh perhaps go to uh page uh 19 I believe or page 18 the little numbers are off in the right corner there we go so um on our we've got these two uh photo montages which I think are important um the uh the little arrow clicker bless you the pointer just give us the page number it's hard to see uh page 18 thank you okay so um the photo down below shows context of of what's existing today and then up above shows the proposed changes which really no change to the footprint but um really uh dealing with the modifications to the roof area it's about 535 square feet if we could go to page 19 please in in in context then as we blow back further you see that the character scale and volume of many of the houses around it are significantly higher and and much more square footage as we go down the street as well so when we think about context and and scale of the neighborhood this is also an oversized lot of over 26,000 Square F feet so it's the second largest lot other than the the hotel down at the end of the street so um I think that's important to note do you have another drawing showing it from the streetcape we we we have uh a number of of straight on elevations as well that that I can go through and show you so if we uh we go to page 15 so this is this is what's existing now and uh and this just shows the change so from the ridge by raising the ridge it's about 5 foot 2 in taller at the highest point but as you can see that and and I would I would characterize if this was built and the shingles were weathered and if we go back to the Montage photograph it doesn't feel like an addition it really feels as though it's how this house might have been renovated and and redesigned in uh 2006 2008 completion um and it fits well into into the the scale of the streetcape you look at the height and the volume of the immediate house here the Greek Revival farmhous which is significantly uh taller but many of the houses along the street are are much much larger on smaller Lots so from our point of view as the architect uh we were given the the challenge of how to uh provide for uh a little bit larger living space same number of bedrooms but a little more living space and Gathering space the barsamian kids are all you know grown up at this point and they come with their friends and so on and they needed more living space so we were able to reconfigure the interior to provide more living space on the first floor and then by this modest change we're able to get the master bedroom to be upstairs and away from the family so that's that's what precipitated this to come before you today what we originally submitted back in August that that this addition was was more volumetric and we lowered it 3 or 4 feet about to be more responsive and just lowered the volume to one not only have it relate in scale to how the house presents itself today but also uh in in the neighborhood context so I think the comments that we received I think were very appropriate and and we took it very positively to help uh guide the design Direction in a way that we think is um kind of a non- addition if you will so that's my initial presentation Frank okay I I apologize for the confusion you know when I looked at the agenda and discussed it you know we were talking about a continuation of the uh previous application from August 13th I was unaware at least that we really have a new application that you revised it and obviously because it's re revised I was looking at the old drawings not the new drawings and I'm now looking today at the new drawings and uh so uh I would at a minimum propose we can talk about a little bit more that I will uh refer these to Sarah C for additional comments uh her opinion is very important to us uh the the act of approval or referral to the Cap Cod Commission we rarely do it as you know that we rarely do it and and quite honestly it's the Cape Cod commission's DRS if that's a good word maybe not a technical word that you know try to resolve it locally you know and and work it out uh and that's what we try to do but we generally use Sarah's comments as a guidance because quite honestly she's got a lot more technical expertise in architecture I'm a lowly electrical engineer you know than I than than I do or we do uh we're just a bunch of well-meaning volunteers thank you uh that was a that's a that's a comment that's a history comment that's a comment between me and my friend Mr Raleigh my fellow sailing racing partner but uh anyway so allow allow us to do that having said that okay uh I just quickly would like to get comments from the members of the commission but you know what you referring to for the the Seascape which is great it's interesting you know we have authority on Seascape as well as streetscape and and on the Seascape you're right it it is what you're proposing is consistent in some ways with the other ones but that's not we're about we're about the individual house which is a contributing structure in an asid district and what has happened and Sarah's comments basically you know when you look at it the scale of what you're proposing is is is is a little bit different and we go from a one two to a three story structure so you know that that's my opinion but let let's go to around the commission and we'll we'll start again with Robert Robert Bob either one I I'll I'll do it um I I and I mentioned this to Mr Riley on uh Friday that that I still have some concerns or lack of knowledge regarding what a substantial alteration how that should be defined and applied um and my understanding is that the commission has gone by the idea that what was approved by uh for inclusion in the National Historic register is the the starting point now we it's it's not what's there now it's what was there when this building was approved as part of the national register right and we don't have that information at least not precisely but I will say that I've been going down to the hallway Street beach for over 60 years so I'm very familiar with the area um and it seems to me that the picture on page 31 of the application is what was was there then or maybe since there's a reference to part of that suffering from the break in 19 it says 1991 I believe it was 1987 uh the the the building that was there it's really really page three is where we started look at the picture on page three that's what was there when the barsamian took ownership okay that's good that's yeah yeah which is the same as on the same that's on page U 31 30 so anyway looking at it from that vantage point which I think is what we're supposed to do there is absolutely no question that there's been a substantial alteration and it's basically unrecognizable from what was there before as Frank said it was a small shack now it's a three-story house I I can't see anything other than to refer that to the Cape Cod Commission so unless I learn something different between now and the next hearing well I would I would suggest that the uh uh every change we've made has been a substantial alteration all you have to do is look at what's there and so the you know the original framing is still there that's what we were Don Inman got rest his soul that was his concern at that time and so uh yes we've had again every single change we've made has been a substantial alteration because when you start with that and then move on to the the lower picture that's a substantial alteration yes so I mean the you know whether you referred or not is a it would seem to me that if a referral is going to be made it should be made then so uh is that your no deed good deed goes unpunished rubric that's one of the that's one way to that's one way to say that's one way to look at it but but in terms of you know I guess I guess the question is what's the point of referring it now well I would also just comment uh since I was not involved with any of these earlier changes understand um but when we did get involved recently you know I reviewed the the files and the history and so on and um I would just as a somewhat Outsider at the time when I reviewed the packet um the all of the changes that had been before here six times seven times whatever it may be uh none of those changes were uh referred to the Cape Cod Commission absolutely not you're absolutely correct as I gave a little bit of speech earlier we prefer not to right we try to find a way to minimize minimize the substantial alteration and yes we know that the changes as Mr Riley has Bill indicated were substantial but you know we reach a point you know it's chatam you know it ain't they tuck it you know we don't tell you what color to paint the fren door and we try to make or what the door knocker is either don't forget that that's true but we so we try to allow certain amount of changed you know Evolution okay and you're right bill you know right every one of those previous ones I remember here is Don sat there and Don sat here he was chairman when I first started this you know it was difficult we said well if we're going to save something at least make sure we save as much as the original you know material and Don was really big on that right and but we we kind of took a deep breath and we said no we're not going to refer it we'll allow it and and all I'm saying at least my view because it seemed to be getting into a personal conversation is that I think we've gone a bit too far with this one and that's that's the point now I'm I don't want make a decision I would like to get Sarah's comments and how that's my opinion but anyway uh Robert did you go be happy to uh I'm a newer member to the commission so I have no uh I have no history with the six or seven times that they neither do I and I want to thank the uh the family and the folks up there in the podium for giving a presentation that we can actually understand the photos and the drawings are are uh we can digest them and see what it is you're you're asking for uh I agree with Bob uh on many of the things that he said and I've read Sarah's uh most recent letter but now I've just learned this morning that that's not dealing with this set of plans it's dealing with something that would preceded that so um I I guess where my curiosity lies here is how there can be such a big disconnect between what the um what the commission or what the Old Village Association and then what uh what is being uh presented so it seems to me that the energy ought to be focused on trying to find some uh solution for this if it's been six or seven times here um maybe we should press the Cape Cod Commission for a little bit greater guideline on what's acceptable and what's not acceptable and U that' be all I'm saying so I'm not saying yes or no to anything I just right it it just seems like this has dragged on for a long time and well what's in the letter isn't in The Proposal right I think I think um In fairness to the barians um that when some of the commentary came back rather than stay with the plan uh we had a conversation about what we should do and how we should be responsive to some of the comments uh particularly as it related to volume and so um trying to be the good listener from the comments we got uh that's what this represents today so I agree I think Sarah really should weigh in on the changes because she's not aware of them um I don't believe at this point so I think that would be a very important next step to get her feedback um and again with all due respect to to Bob um since what's there now never went to the Cape Cod Commission I think she may be looking at this slightly differently and saying well what's there now and then what we're proposing what are those changes and are they significant in terms of uh how the Cape Cod Commission would view that 530 square foot difference basically changing the roof line there's no change to the footprint um and that input I think would be important not going back to the uh what you see on the top because that doesn't exist anymore and that that was never referred to them so when we look at what we have today how does this in the context of the neighborhood and the character and the scale how does that uh weigh in with what the Cape Cod commission's goals and objectives might be Patrick you're absolutely right but reading Sarah's memo now I I don't know what your changes were how significantly you changed it but looking at the original application you know uh the proposed work would expand the basement level and not change the massing of the original historic structure the current structure would create an additional story alter the roof line and form so that the historic structure is the original historic structure is is indistinguishable and you know she goes back she goes back to the original right and and but but you know I'm not I don't want to PR what Sarah could say and and you know which I'm sure you do you know you can talk to her she's no no no no no she's very reasonable you know you could find ways to do it and and I think we might be able to one more time okay find a way to to to allow it to go forward hopefully right it's not our intention just to blanketly you know do it right and and and and I believe that Robbie did have a conversation with her recently in that same regard to give her a little more of the history and and and understand the the events that have occurred over a long period of time and where the house went from 1930 kind of Shack to where it is today and how it got there and then what the respon is but I would very much like to have the same opportunity once she has a chance to review the the current plans to have that conversation and see if we can get to a a middle ground that makes sense I want you to know we got a lot of flak by approving the previous ones so rumor has it yeah right but why don't we just quickly go around the rest of commission and then I think we I think we're agreeing we should continue with with do Sarah but uh Frank Frank Frank Sandy oh Frank I'm sorry over here Sor sorry just to interject some since we're talking about potentially another plan would you please dated especially now that we're going to have three versions it's it's dated uh October 15th 2024 in the cover it would be helpful if the the pages were all numbered too since many of them are some are the same and well we submitt a whole packet you know but I'm happy to dat every understand that I'm mer asking and saying it's more convenient and if this was more formal setting it would be required that the individual Pages be not be dated so especially since today the plans were not done on October 15th I assume no okay sorry Bob uh yes good morning I'd like to um see what Sarah how Sarah weighs in I've been looking at it it's quite a change just from what it is now to what it was in the beginning and uh it would be quite a change but I do have a side a question for you Patrick are you left-handed left-handed yeah no right-handed one okay just one I was a question I'm couldn't hear if he was left-handed if he was I'm left-handed are you the reason I ask is um I use I'm right-handed but I everything in my office is set up for a left-handed person and I staple on the right and that's what a left how a left-handed person does it and it was just struck me he must be left-handed thank you very much I knew it was I canying to me that it was I can draw with my left hand though too all right and I'm the only person in the office left left that draws so everybody else is on computers so Janet I don't know this is kind of tricky because um uh it's gotten to this state with some Heavy Hitters on here you know Don amegan and um uh Steve and other people and um they just want to put a third bedroom on the I I I don't know I mean I guess I what I don't understand is why we didn't go why it wasn't gone to um referred to Sarah you know a long time ago it was referred to Oh all along s Sarah's commented Sarah's commented on every change oh it was referred so we have to refer to Sarah every time no well not every time we when we got the original application I Prof forer sent it to Sarah okay so it's I didn't realize that they changed the plans got it okay so I guess it has to go to Sarah okay well it you know does it have to go to Sarah no we we could do it but I think would it make you feel better if it goes to Sarah oh sure if we refer it to the Cape Cod Commission it' be nice to know what we're getting into and that's where it is that's where Sarah comes from Sarah is the uh preservation I know who she is okay and she's the one who would advise the commission so we know in advance what where we're going okay yes Stephanie yes I'm very bothered by the height of everything and the addition uh for the master bedroom um I would like to go beyond referring it to Sarah I'd like to refer it to the Cape Cod Commission okay Nancy um I'd like to ask a couple questions because to me the the the thing that feels significant about the additional changes is the fact it looks like and I wasn't here for the other ones that in the previous changes this idea of the frame had been you know the frame was saved in the original work or the multiple bur if you look at the the addition of the third story takes off um I don't know two3 of what may have been the original roof line um if you look so if you look at page 15 um the change from the left side to the fact that the peak in the original Cottage is no longer there it's there's a whole new Peak that is the sub you know the original Cottage if you look at that end on the left and that that Peak behind it is going that way was the original Cottage so that is not staying there you're not even getting that same roof L I think if you look at page 18 though I think you'll see that in three dimension it is staying I'm sorry if you go to page 18 on the top right so there you you can see that the U so that there's the gabled end is is still there the gabled end is still there the gabled end the with the porch is still there it looks like in your your picture here that it's a steeper pitch so I don't know if you're also changing that or at that's just the picture it looks like in your plans so the porch is staying yes significant that that's staying the the peak behind it which is the original Cottage going that way is new it looks like if you look at the plan on page 15 and I'm not going to make this too long because I do believe we should get input from Sarah and I think we'll probably continue this but I would like to make these points because if I was asking you to rethink it this is what I would have it there's there's also another little Nuance to to this whole Saga if you will that currently uh that expanded deck which was approved hadn't been built as you see on the existing elevation but is now under construction I'm sorry what is which what are you talking about the deck the deck I'm not worried about the deck the deck that you that you that you're referring to here no I'm not referring to that deck I'm referring to the peak on the left yep and the red line that shows where that Peak was and where the new so that was the original cage that Peete going that way okay that was the shack and that is being taken off and then if just if we could go to the next page page 16 sorry okay you can therefore you can there see the way the cottage runs on the left all the way down and putting in this that new story how much of the original roof has to be taken away to build that so that to me was the original phame that's the part that has been retained with all the other changes and that to me if we're just talking about our purview which is saving historical structures I think it's very in keeping with the surrounding but our concern is the significance and the Integrity of the historical structure so my biggest problem is that there's a huge chunk of the frame that was saved during all the other changes that is now being taken away that's exactly what I was trying to say yeah you know this is going a tough one you know that third story is just going to take too much away from the original structure and I know that's what you're trying to do and yeah we're going to go to Sarah but you know if we would to vote right now I think we would you know it would not be approved and it would be probably referred so I guess the only thing I would say is we'll go through the process again with your concurrence uh to request Sarah to to look at it one more time but it's it's big and it's just not consistent with the streetcape that now exists for the current Cottage okay I think Robbie would like to say a few words uh good morning morning I'm Rob barsamian at 75 hallway I saw some of you the other day nice to meet you sir it's nice to see you again again um just a couple things that kind of um while I was listening to everyone's comments if you if we want to go back to the original structure the original structure Bill wasn't with me at the time but Mike Ford was it was a condemned structure they were going to take the structure down I actually asked them not to take the structure down and I rebuilt the structure so it was boarded up there was a f inside the structure and everything that we built in 2006 to 2009 virtually was new there was no Original House zero nothing left there was a fire inside there was no Timbers there was no roof structure and when we met in 2006 I think it was with Sarah's first letter we kind of walked through that and the two important elements to her at that time wasn't the roof line it was it was basically two elements there was a hip on the entrance to the door and there was a an in this plan here if you see the back of the house that little Gable piece had some resemblance of the original uh Shack so um those are the two elements that were critical at from her point of view at that time in 201 I think 15 we kept those two elements but we just lifted the house so we kind of kept the two two elements that were important to Dawn and the other group at the time and Sarah when I got s Sarah's letter the first letter I called her and we went through kind of the history of it and she said you know she was happy that we talked she obviously said okay that does make a difference and I said to Patrick look at there's a couple issues with that I'm hearing not officially hearing um at a party or someone saying something that you know the massing was too big so we lowered that to to address that you can only lower it so much before you can't live in it right and so we lowered it to a to a certain extent so you know I get I I don't really like no good deed goes unpunished because that's really not what where I think we're at we had a structure that was supposed to be condemned that we kind of Saved we rebuilt we kept everything we could and then we have been expanding it a variety of times for a variety of reasons we had a much much bigger house we had a footprint that went back to the original House the L that's really what I wanted in the beginning all I wanted from day one was can I build what was there and you know there was a lot of back and forth the neighborhood wasn't developed everyone on the street didn't do something to their house which has been done in the last 10 years if you look at if you go back and look at my shack at that time and you look at all the other houses they're all different the Dormers are different the roof lines are different some have basement some raise the roof some lower some put garages in etc etc so just about every house other than maybe two or three of them um really have changed what they are and so as as our family grew you know one of the one of the things I said to Patrick how do we make it feel like it was always there based on what's there today and that's how we kind of surgically came up with saying okay let's not rip the whole thing apart let's just kind of put something on the top and see if we can make it work and keep the elements that Sarah said in 2006 2009 2015 that were important to this board and we did that so am I adding something of course or else we wouldn't be here um did we did we think about all the things you guys talked about we did and so we came up with this and and um so anyways that's just a little bit of the background my conversation with Sarah was great she was appreciative of it basically she said you know try to work it out with you guys you guys are saying okay let's send it back to her so that's fine we can kind of do that again uh and then we can talk about it a little bit more but you know there's a lot of history here took me 9 years to build the cottage that was condemned that they they said I had to take down that I was paying taxes on and so I didn't take it down I kept it because of the historical significance and I thought I was doing so no good deed goes unpunished maybe I should have taken it down there you go well you probably wouldn't have been allowed but that's another story well they but they were for they were forcing thank you very much no I really do appreciate your your your comment comments and I appreciate the fact that you know you reached out to Sarah and try to find some accommodation or approach mon if we will so we could get this resolved and you're right I've been on this commission about 20 years and I've seen I've seen the changes in that in that street okay and you're right we have allowed a lot of changes in that on that street to allow people to join come into the 21st century okay to make things but we try very hard very hard to maintain the street skate maintain some of the scale and yeah some of the houses are are but they were bigger okay they were bigger to begin with than your your cottage that you bought and and I thank you very much for putting in the time and the money and these two characters you got next to you the time and the money you know to do what you're doing and we do appreciate that the chatam is chatam because there are people like you people like you who love the town have a beautiful spot and want to preserve it this one we're having a little this Chang and I've been through every one of them for that you've made over the over the time and we have tried to accommodate and hopefully we could so I think at this particular Point without belaboring it I would like to ask the members of the commission that to allow that we ask this to be continued to our next meeting and then we could come to some conclusion okay sure i' like to ask him another question I think that's the right path all right so look at this particular point I'm going to entertain a motion can I ask him a quick question I'm sorry I have go ahead okay because we've got you here can we go back to page 15 because you you we we talked to you at the site visit one thing is I think getting what Sarah told you in writing would be very helpful to us great so that's why we're going back we're going to we're going to do that yes right okay there's a lot of conversation I was at visit you noted that the Gable end and the porch were things that Sarah had noted to you and I would just say that that Gable end is being changed and that maybe that should really be something that you guys think about if we're trying to save the his Integrity of the historic structure of the pitches of the things that are still there and recognizable not changing that Gable end might be something okay let's let's not get into that detailed discussion we have a whole another to do it I would motion excuse me I have a question about the motion a point of order please yes ma'am I concerns the next meeting the next meeting is election day so when when are we continuing in this to we don't have a meeting on Election Day November 15 okay November 15 yes she would C thank you I love it all right please a motion Mr we're all going to be voting on Election Day I hope I already voted by mail I'm done could I just ask Mr Riley is before we continue to November 15th is that okay yes absolutely okay so that's thank you okay Friday then I move the historical commission continue this hearing until no November 15th is a Friday according to this it's a Friday November 15th is a Friday I think November 19th excuse me 19 perfect thank you Mr Riley what did we do before we had these things I I move the chadam historical commission uh continue this case until November 19th 2024 uh with the concurrence of the applicant yes second thank you uh Bob yes okay Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes chair vot yes thank you very much thank you okay we have just a couple of quick things and we can everybody go um the demolition by neglect and this is interesting you know this is another one where there was a cottage that was boarded up and left and and uh luckily somebody came in and took care of it uh Christine uh ogrady is continuing to do work uh on it assembling various uh uh what do you call uh bylaw some other towns and and hope to get together soon provide some kind of uh guidance on where we want to proceed so other than that there's really nothing else to report on the demolition by neglect uh I would say we did have a conversation with uh myself and Christine Christina and CHR and um Miss Katie Donovan and the subject came up and and I you know there was some comment well how how extensive is this problem and off the top of my head I think I pointed out to the house on U Main Street that is currently being lifted and moved on its New Foundation now that's a good example of a house that reached that point because it was neglected now luck somebody is there and they're going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to save it but that house got in as disrepair as it was because it was just neglected uh then I was received a number of calls from people on um the one on Crow Road which was demolished which was another good example and my friend Steve buring game I know he was close to that one and you know that was another one and so there are houses and then of course we just lost the house we the town of chadam lost an historic house on uh on Main Street in West chadam uh unfortunately it was the purview of the hbdc the house was in disrepair well they tore it down and there was no attempt to try and save the house but I got to be careful talking about the other boards and Commissioners but I was not happy with that one coming down uh West chadam is turning into a boat yard now um anyway so I think it's something I I I know some members of the commission feel strongly about it that we have to continue to to keep uh keep in the Public's eye uh the issue of the uh updating of the survey plans I had a meeting telephone conversation meeting uh teams meeting with Miss Katie Donovan and some funding has been identified for us to proceed what I love I had a meeting and ended up with an action item so Christina and I I'm giving her just going to pull her into it need to put together a a plan on how to proceed we we don't have enough money at one time to do everything so we need to sequence what we want to do and I think an example today of what just happened with that uh Cottage community that one is is documented in some ways but there are other Cottage communities which are not documented and we'd love to save them but if we are going to lose them for some reason be nice to know what was there and so that's something we're talking about area forms and I believe these the the priorities that the commission voted was to to take care of the new ones first and then worry about updating the old ones so I'm going to try and break that out uh with uh some help from Christine and from Eric Dre our preservation consultant and provide that plan of action if you will and then subsequent funding plan a funding profile to Katie to proceed I also say that it is possible that some of those tasks could be applicable for a mass historic commission uh planning Grant unfortunately the town has really not taking advantage of those because it requires work it's not big money it's 2030 ,000 but right now it's been three years for me to try to get that 20 $330,000 so it' be nice if we could find a long-term plan to get those grants um I'm expecting the survey uh update from uh Holly herster of mass uh from U palal uh can you do me a favor give her a remind her the contract is over in a couple of weeks and we need that report once we get that report we would then hopefully with your concurrence submit a request to mass historic to list the Nickerson William andan Nickerson Homestead site as a n eligible National register site speaking of that I just quickly again uh Nancy just the quick as side because you did raise a point um you're right if a h if a contributing structure is in a national registered District more than 25% or we consider it that the the historical significant was was lost it's a mandatory it can be a mandatory referral when a district is or a property is found eligible Cape Cod Commission through its legal staff has determined yes even though it's only an an eligible area it is referable to the Cape Cod Commission discretionary referral mandatory we the commission has MA a discretionary referral is we can recommend into the town or town fathers and they are the ones who would have to refer it so it's an extra you know extra step I just wanted to clarify that for you and for the public whoever is listening um Coast Guard Boat House things are still proceeding and hopefully uh we'll get that thing moving in another year or so uh that's all I really have I don't think there's anything else to report uh about the demolition delays expiring anything happened happening that I need to know about Christine no all updated so we still have uh a couple of applications a couple of properties that could be demolished because their demolition delays have expired that's all I have anybody else have anything else they want to add or think about for a future agenda item okay I will comment with the loss of Steve at our next meeting I think we need to make some recommendations for changes and possibly moving robbit up to a full membership if you're if you're so moved and uh so moved again um we need to do that and as well as think about uh replacements for the two uh alternate slots uh having said that and motion for adjournment I make a motion that we adjourn this meeting second thank you roll call Bob yes sir Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair Oz thank you very much are we off the air no