##VIDEO ID:GtZ0AStEP3I## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon and welcome to the CH October 15 2024 meeting of the chadam select board please not this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and On Demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chair seeing no such notification I'll proceed pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General Law chapter 30A section 20 until March 31 2025 this meeting of the chadam select board is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 15 8945 4410 conference ID 203 386 491 pound sign or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chadam TV Xfinity p uh Channel 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide realtime access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible uh before I establish a quorum and commence the meeting I want to note that uh this week um chadam lost two members of its Community um first was um Steve Burling game who passed away this past uh Wednesday Mr Burling game uh served for over a decade through his appointment to the hbdc from a August 2014 through January 2016 uh as a member of the planning board from December 2015 uh through June 2016 and most recently as a member of the historical commission from June 9 2019 through his passing I also want to note the passing uh the untimely very untimely passing over the weekend of Shannon hubard and her daughter um Shannon was a preschool teacher at chadam elementary school um if we could just observe a note of Silence um in memory and uh send our condolences to their families thank you uh I'll now establish a quorum um Mr Mets present Mr dykin present M Davis Mr is present and Mr necastro present um we don't have any minutes uh today to look at so we will start with um public announcements and agenda requests uh we also have um a committee board commission update from the sem Cemetery commission uh we have um a report as uh is the case for every meeting from the director of Public Works Mr failey on our wells Etc drinking water and so forth uh next we will take up public comments on the business agenda and then finally the business agenda will consist of um I think that's 10 items but we'll find out at the end here first is consider acceptance of uh Memorial bench donation at Seaside links second is vote to PR uh to approve and sign the state election warrants third is um considering a one-day alcohol license for the Paint and Sip event to benefit the Samson fund and the Brewster V Veterinary Hospital fourth is um a uh report on the cape light compact three-year plan fifth is considering donation of uh Road plates um which is continued from our September 24 meeting uh sixth is um a a second read of the Town Project's public engagement procedure which we last took up on the 8th of uh October uh seventh is consider uh considering amending the town's budget and financial management policies uh to limit the town's ability to the ability of the town when borrowing money to exclude debt under proposition two and a half Etc uh next is um consider amending the meeting public participation policy uh next is is considering uh select board officer roles on committees um boards and commissions and finally um we're going to talk about how we proceed with uh committees boards and commissions annual review so with that um I will start with an announcement that uh from October 20 to 26 2024 is National Friends of the library week uh this week coincides with the 45th anniversary of the friends of the Eldridge public library and their continued support of the Eldridge public library and we thank them profusely for their dedication and work uh to support the library um I will next ask for public announcements and agenda requests from the board any from the board Mr necastro thank you Mr chairman I have two uh they both both relate to housing the first is um with with respect respect to number 127 old Harbor Road um uh a couple of years ago and maybe this occurred twice Town staff including the building Spector and the health agent um toward the property toward the structures um I don't know if they ever prepared a written report but I don't believe that the select board ever received anything on it so I'd like to have a presentation as an agenda item by the building inspector to report on what they found in regards to the conditions of the buildings uh for example the foundation the wooden frame the plumbing and heating and electrical systems and so forth um the second relates to Stepping Stones Road um we had some test fits that were done we had a presentation at the board and um then they were re represented to us um following some revision um and um that was um some some time ago I'd like to have as an agenda item um that these be presented back to us for discussion and review um both of these items with respect to and for the purpose of advancing um the the development of these properties um uh with an RFP and obviously this the sooner the better thank you Mr chairman thank you I for the record I don't recall specifically but I do believe uh that that U those test fits were presented to us in our capacity as the the affordable housing trust board um so with that I'll recognize anybody from the um from the audience that would like to make a an announcement or a Mr burkstrom thank you Ron sorry yeah good evening Ron Bergstrom I'm here as chair of the morille County Commissioners um to respectfully request a spot on the next agenda to discuss um the implications of ballot question number six ballot question number six only affects barille County it has to do with the division of authority between the assembly and the Comm Commissioners the assembly has sponsored the ballot question and the Commissioners have released a statement unanimously opposing it and giving our reasons so I think this needs a little bit more attention and uh I understand you might want to invite uh your assembly delegate Randy poach or someone else to speak but uh and make sure you limit our time otherwise it'll get completely out of hand uh uh so anyway that's my request and hopefully you can honor it and let me know thank you and I'll just note that I I think our our our next meeting is the last meeting that would be available before the election is that not correct no so um the next meeting is the 22nd which is our budget Summit and then the 29th 29th SEL so okay so and and thanks for the suggestion I I actually had had a conversation with uh Randy and and was contemplating also speaking to you so um for sure we'll make it to 29th and I can send you some materials to So you you're aware what's going on when you walk in the door we'll have a um uh something in the in the packet yeah uh to support um the conversation okay thank you thank you commissioner uh anybody else okay um chair we do someone online stepen Buckley uh forgive me uh Mr Buckley yes thank you very much Steve Buckley uh I'm want to request I guess an item that's already on the uh that I had requested in the past and it's listed in the in the uh next to last page of your packet of previously requested items and that has to do with the uh public engagement policy I'm gratified to see that that's on the agenda tonight but uh I also had requested that there be some type of task group or Advisory Group so that um yes any type of public engagement policy might actually involve members of the public so um I I'm requesting that there be some something in addition to the good work of uh the town manager and shaa as Communications manager uh that they they hope that there be something that whatever is adopted that there be some way that others outside that the public can be that so I'm I'm reiterating something I had already asked before but that's been missing in the process so far thank you so Mr Buckley just to clarify the the item of on this evening's agenda that you're referring to is f Town Projects public engagement procedure is that correct right right that so okay thank you yeah and but it's Miss it's Miss but yeah the other part was can we talk about sometime in the future about how the public might actually be involved in um improving it because it apparently has not been involved in drafting it thank you okay thank you very much uh anybody else anybody else online Okay um we will go then to item two uh which is a report um and um comments from the uh members of the Cemetery commission welcome gentlemen thank you and good evening uh my name is David whitcom I'm chairman of the cemetery commission and standing at the podium with me is Bill byrom and Peter gains also commission members um I thought Quinn bck Quinn F might be here but uh maybe later so in your packet there's a uh a brief information on chadam cemeteries that was compiled by D shiel hoot uh before she left as our administrative assistant and I found it kind of interesting so I just threw that in there for you for your own knowledge um okay uh thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak with you tonight over the past three years we have been a commission in transition after serving under the Park and Recreation Department with Dan Tobin as our staff liaison we were transfer referred to the Department of Public Works where we have had three different directors to the department as well as uh we've been in four different offices um over the last three years and uh we lost our long time chairman George goodp during that time we are also unable to fill the P part-time administrator secretary position for the better part of one year and two of the three maintenance positions that were to be shared with Park and grounds we did however welcome Bill and Peter to the commission um I'd like to turn this over to bill now to talk about some of the Personnel challenges we have had hi uh I'm Bill byrom and first of all on our personal note I really would like to thank the selectman for the countless hours you put in making chat the great place it is I know you spent a tremendous amount of time you know uh this year was uh Judy Patterson she's a resident of chadam she wrote a letter to the chronicle uh earlier in the year and in that letter she said that uh Union Cemetery and uh Seaside Cemetery were in sorry condition and although we tend to be on opposite ends of the political Spectrum in this one particular Cas I think Judy was spot on it it they both were in pretty sad condition so sad that on Valentine's Day my wife tiller and I spent four hours picking up trash at Seaside Cemetery so that when people came to visit they would not be offended by that so sad that Memorial Day weekend I took my weed whacker and went down and and weed whacked between the street and where the cemetery was so it would not so it looked decent David has spent countless hours going through the cemetery on his own time he has removed uh uh roted fence post from the old North Cemetery he has replaced uh fencing in the Old South Cemetery we both David and I have both worked at the South chadam uh Cemetery fixing and replacing fencing Peter has done a a great job along with his wife gaining information for us from many hours of work going through recording who's buried here where and and everywhere because as you probably know chadam has 15 cemeteries originally they were managed by Churches some of the information came to the town some some of it didn't there was a town uh there was a fire at Town Hall a long time ago some of the information got burnt uh for long time because there was no Central Locus for the cemetery Department in chadam information was carried from place to place in shoe boxes some of which we've managed to replicate and some of we haven't so still if we have questions on some of the old cemeteries we have to actually go and probe who is actually in that uh lot so anyway the the bottom line is that there's been a lot of work that needs to be done in the cemeteries there has been a lot of work that has been done in the cemeteries but I think basically the problem the cemetery commission is facing along with the DPW and maybe the board of Selectmen is uh what we found in the old uh Paul Newman movie HUD I think it was a failure to communicate and basically what that means is that since 2021 when I was on the board we've had four different people either department heads of the DPW or acting department heads of the DPW so it's not surprising that all the information on what we thought should be done and what actually does get done never got transferred so I spent the weekend and I went through the uh the mins that we had since 2021 and I just beg your Indulgence for about three minutes and I'll make this real quick and Dean I could have used your help on this and I'll tell you why because a lot of these mints as I read over them the grammar is atrocious uh we missed a few things here and there so if we had you on our board you would have picked those up cuz you do that every week here uh and Mike I was going to say the two lawyers so if either one of you want to just resign from there and come down here anytime feel free okay so this is the mins of from the mins of October 28th 2021 when as a board we realized that we had problems maintaining the cemeteries serious problems so these were the recommendations that the board took from the October 28th 20 21 meeting and was submitted to the town manager number one have the town take over the maintenance of the cemeteries using Town hired staff and use those Personnel to perform snow maintenance and other work for the town during the winter two the town purchased the equipment needed to maintain the cemeteries with the town staff and three bid out Cemetery maintenance for the first half of 20 22 with the anticipation that the work being performed by the town would start in July 1 2022 these recommendations were submitted Along with Dan by Dan Tobin who was Ali aison to the town manager and the town manager in her wisdom Incorporated those in the budget for the upcoming uh 2023 year at that point uh to quote the from February 10th 2022 after the budget had been submitted uh again this is from the uh budget and Staffing report from the uh Cemetery commission David Wickham chairman stated the cemetery department will now work under the DPW the DPW is proposing three fulltime positions to mow and care for the Cemetery grounds this increase in staff and equipment would certainly better serve and certainly improve the appearance of the cemeteries okay you fast forward to the minutes of June 30th 2022 by this point this budget that included the three additional or the three people IM Mar for the cemetery had been voted on and approved at the town meeting uh so it was in effect and on that date June 30th Tom Temple who at that point was the acting director or was the director reassured the Commissioners that the cemetery department has enough money to maintain the Cemetery grounds to the end of the fiscal year he also expressed once the DPW has all three people on board they will be responsible for mowing trimming and ens of Maintenance both outside and inside the cemeteries so here you go there's the evidences there it went to town meeting it passed it was in the budget and then we just never got it so I'm going to go to one other item and I uh you can find this this is the uh the worksheet again I'll make copies of this if any anybody would like one I'm sorry I don't have copies here for you tonight uh the town of chadam uh fiscal year salary worksheet July 1 2022 to June 30th 2023 it shows three people on the uh the cemetery department and they would they were to work half time for the cemetery and the other half for the buildings and grounds or whatever other DPW department they wanted and you can see that the budget increased uh $65,000 from the year before to cover that so that the money was there uh and in the next year the town went out the town actually purchased some of those some of the equipment we needed to uh have the staff uh work in the cemeteries but it really hasn't happened it's happened in some of the cemeteries but not the big cemeteries that we need Seaside and Union we've had to still contract out maintenance in Seaside inion the problem with that is last year's RFP went out we got one reply that one person that replied we had to give the contract to but that contractor can't even mow the entire Cemetery in one day so it's always going to have part of it that looks shabby it's like if in your own home if you mow the backyard one day and then you wait four days and mow the the front yard and then you wait another couple days and mow the side yard it's going to look unemp I don't think and and none of us think as a board that that is suitable for chadam we don't think it's it's respectful of of the uh the people that are in the cemeteries okay and we're very concerned about that because not only are we big supporters of cemeteries but also if you ever remember that advertisement that was on TV there was an advertisement it was uh gentleman would get on he had a full head of hair and he said um I'm not only the president of the Hair Club for Men I'm also a client U we're not only Cemetery Commissioners but we're also clients at some point of the cemetery hopefully not to soon okay maybe hopefully 20 years out but in the meantime we'd like to ensure that everything is good thank you very much dve okay I think it goes without saying that we've had some Personnel challenges um over the past time that being said we have adequately maintained our four active and 11 inactive cemeteries for the most part except for the early spring mowing season with select board Bo and Community Support we started our cemeter Cemetery restoration program we began by trimming and removing overgrown trees and bushes in Seaside Cemetery with the support of the community preservation committee the commission received town meeting approval to restore 109 gravestones in section A in the older SE section of Seaside we have begun the same process in section A of Union Cemetery and intend to submit another application to the CPC in the next two weeks we have also cleaned most of the monuments in section B of Union Cemetery Quinn foran um was hired as a full-time Administrative Assistant a year ago and has been working on digitizing the cemetery records as well as a day-to-day business and updating our website um of course out cuz Quinn is not here in moving forward the commission Commissioners continue to believe his more efficient and coste effective to have Town staff maintain and improve our cemeteries we believe there should be three full-time Town employees including one as a foreman dedicated primarily to the cemeteries in order to sustain a high level of Municipal service as I'm sure most of you know the Department of Public Works is our largest Department it includes the following divisions under the townwide organizational chart Highway principal projects and operations Parks and Recreation transfer station GIS custodial Water and Sewer facilities and Cemetery I'm afraid as good a job as they are doing under Rob fail the cemetery sometimes Falls between the cracks I'd like to talk about funding for a minute excluding the capital articles that roll over each year until spent the average Cemetery budget for fiscal year 2022 23 and 24 was $1,690 this is offset by turn backs that go back to free cash of $2 6,570 and lot sales in the Perpetual care totaling another $ 3,670 this leaves a balance of $ 43,45 per year to maintain our cemeteries we also have in our coffers $540,000 In Perpetual care funds we have been told only a small percentage of that can be used annually we would like to ask the select board tonight to look into that it makes no sense to have that much money sitting in a bank when we have the Perpetual care of our SE of our cemeteries uh are is needed now as you know under General law we are charged under your supervision and control to maintain the public cemeteries in our town and with your approval appoint such employees as are necessary to maintain our cemeteries I hope we have done that tonight and we would be happy to answer any questions you might have Dave I I excuse me um Quin Foreman our our a department coordinator for Cemetery he's participating virtually oh he's right there screen hi Ken I hey David sorry about that that's okay I came right at 3 and wanted to keep the decorum of the meeting so I didn't interrupt and uh Bill those copies of the packet are actually right on that bench outside the door I'm so sorry okay so um Quinn while you're on you want to maybe explain what uh you've been doing since you were hired and uh what what you might see uh in the future of course um so hi everyone my name is Quinn Foreman I'm currently the cemetery administrator for the town of chadam been working here for about a year now um currently I'm working on some really great projects I think the biggest one is creating a online uh public facing database for the cemetery's records right now um you know it's really coming along I think there's one final push that we're going to need and that's going to come through uh you know getting either a contractor or a volunteer group to go in crowdsource um lot burials and just correlate you know which lot has which people buried there I'm sorry I'm I'm not the best the public speaking okay then I get um thank you Quinn and Mr chairman I think commissioner Gaines wanted to say something before you thanks very much Peter gains uh you may remember in June of 2023 when I interviewed before this board uh the select board for a position on the sueter commission uh you asked me a lot of questions why I wanted to be on the semetary commission and I said among among them was it was very personal for me as our home uh overlooked uh the uh new section of cide cemetery in 2019 my wife and I purchased plots in the new section uh and as fate would have it two years later we bought a house literally overlooking our plot and uh uh but you know in the years that we've lived in that home in the three years we've lived in that home uh what we've witnessed is that as as Mr byrom and Mr witcom have already said is that the maintenance of the cemetery uh has at least some uh Seaside has been sporadic as Mr said there were times when we would see the mowers there and uh they would be doing their job and then they would stop and literally leave half of the cemetery or part of the cemetery completely undone and it got to the point where it it just looked terrible imagine uh your home and your nextdoor neighbor uh doesn't maintain their property well we think of Seaside Cemetery as our next door neighbor and uh in addition there are times that we've gone into the cemetery uh picked up some trash not that often I don't expect the DPW to go in there every single day uh but uh we take the uh maintenance of Seaside cemetery and all the cemeteries in town uh very very seriously uh so I I just wanted to Echo what Mr bom and Mr wickom said that if there's uh if the means are available uh it's it we take it personally when when a citizen of the town uh comes before uh our uh our commission as they did twice this past spring and summer uh expressing uh really a lot of concern that they had gone to I think one was right around Memorial Day that they had gone to or just before Memorial Day that they had gone to visit a relatives plot and it was overgrown and uh how disappointed they were uh especially pointing out the fact that when their relatives purchased their plot uh Perpetual maintenance was included in the cost so it's hard to uh it's hard to respond to uh situations like that and we hope that the select board takes this up and treats it with we think the necessary uh uh well it's it's serious it really is thanks for their time thank you very much gentlemen um questions from the board Jeff yeah I I really want to thank this this Trio um dedicated Trio that has done some work themselves in the cemeteries and and they really have a vision for the cemeteries as well and it's really we need to support this commission and we need to improve our cemeteries and take care of them we have the money this town can afford to take care of these cemeteries so we just need to execute need to hire folks to get in there that's that's the recommendation from from our commissioners that we hire folks so that we have control and we can hold folks accountable subcontracting did not work um you hear you can hear the frustration with the subcontracting model so I I think it's it's it's on us to to hire the folks that are requisite to maintaining our cemeteries in the way they ought to be maintained we should be part of our cemeteries um I know David's been in there with chainsaws cutting stuff down and and discovering grave Graves and stuff it's it's not appropriate um so we need to do we need to do a better job we we need to do a better job we have to we we've IR marked the money now we have to execute we have to hire folks and support DBW and support these guys and support our are folks that are buried there and the families that are thinking about being buried there um Seaside Union people South chadam are the four active ones I believe um and they ought to be tip top and then the other the inactive ones are of of extreme interest historically and they're they're beautiful and they're of a major historical interest so we need to take care of those as well um so there's been some frustration here and you're hearing that tonight and it's up to us to execute and I I do also recommend and ask that we figure out what what's going on with the Perpetual fund $540,000 sitting in a fund ought to ought to throw off at least you know 5 10% to support the operations and the improved operations of our cemeteries so I'll get off my high horse I am the leaon I I feel as though I haven't done a good job representing these guys but now's the time or the town but now's the time to do that thanks thank you uh Dean thank you Mr chairman thank you thanks my thanks to the three of you for your presentation I I very much um enjoyed reading um the historical Narrative of the cemeteries I didn't know a lot of that information um and I commend the public to read it the material is on our website with the agenda I just had a couple of questions um what type of equipment do you think is needed because that's one of you you're basically talking personnel and Equipment here I was just wondering what what type of equipment do we lack well um a couple years ago there was $168,000 in in our capital budget to be shared with the park and grounds we um I think I believe we bought a pickup truck that is also can work be used as a plow and we bought a mower um I uh would I think the the cemeteries are a different animal than a lot of the places that that we mow in town and I think there may be some special equipment to deal with them and and make them better I don't know what they are at the moment but I would hope if that we can get someone within the a foreman someone that really can assess that situation and Implement that I would think it's a little harder to mow a cemetery because you're going in between Graves um May I just add one one thing a stump grinder uh a stump grinder you definitely need because as you take out some of the the growth you need to get down and get the roots out so that you you know you have a good Bas but we had there was a whole list that we had available two years ago with the equipment and some of it was was purchased okay um can I just add to that up before Mr failey gets through mad at us uh we did buy or the town bought a uh a dingo uh at recently and with that Dingo comes a stump grinding attachment I'm not sure if we have that yet or it's operational not yet but at least that's in the works but that's a very important piece of equipment that that we need I want to just address this the Perpetual care fund because I think Jeff makes a good point you said that what 5% is tapped I I believe it's 5% yes do you know what have you have you had occasion to look at what other communities are doing um on Perpetual care I haven't I I had several conversations with our former Finance director Alex alela and she uh didn't seem to think that that was possible it it might be a part of a state in the state statutes or something that they they talk about I know you can't you can't use it for um SE uh Monument restoration and things like that that's why we have to go to the CPC to get that but you can use it for all the other maintenance things that happen in the cemetery yeah that it's worth exploring you know that's a good chunk of money and maybe we can tap into it at a higher rate when people purchase Graves purchase plots you know they're paying as you pointed out a portion of that is Perpetual care and that's paid with the expectation that the town is going to um take care of the of of the grounds um I I don't want to um um spend uh I I I you gave a very exhaustive presentation and it's worth um this board's consideration as along with the town manager um since um we're approaching Veterans Day can I just ask a side question what's happening with Flags uh I think that has improved um that situation over the last um several months but are we ready for Veterans Day and who does that the scouts volunteers or both you guys want to well with veterans St you want him uh if Quinn is still here he could probably answer it I know that for several years my wife and I at least in seide and the Union uh put out the flags ourselves uh Before Memorial Day and Veterans Day and then was it this past Memorial Day I think the Coast Guard volunteered I don't know Mr Quinn Foreman who still on May know the answer uh in terms of who are going to volunteer for a Veterans Day I can just add before Quin you say that the Coast Guard has has helped put out flags for the last since I can remember under the uh direction of Mike Ryder who is our Cemetery coordinator with the uh with the um yeah so it's the Coast Guard the Boy Scouts also have helped out volunteers and volunteers the big the big issue we've had with flags is not so much putting them out but taking them back because we don't want to leave them out all year if you leave them out all year what you have is they disintegrate unfortunately uh the flags are provided to the town and when I say unfortunately the ones that they they purchased I believe were made in China uh they're not the best quality so we really have to take them out and replace them twice a year there are some people that have requested that they have Flags uh remain on their uh Graves all year and you can do that and we're happy to do that and what we suggest to those people is we have to somehow by we I mean the cemetery uh commission we've talked about this before we have to indicate on the the individual markers which flags remain out all year so they just don't get taken taken up as they go but those people were asking them uh to file a requests to keep their flags up all year we're we're looking at a a something that is is goodlooking or to go on the uh the bronze marker and then once we do that what we'd like to do is we've also told them that feel free to come back and get a new flag from the town whenever they that flag uh is in bad disrepair so it it keeps the the respect thing going it doesn't we don't we don't want to see flag that are ripped torn or or scattered around somewhere that does not show respect and does not look good who who provides the flags the Department of Veterans Affairs yeah yeah VFW yeah no yeah yeah and and what's the protocol for how long you take you you allow them to stay up apart from the people that want it all year and when do you take them down you see it lasts a week after week or two before and a week or two after okay I think that came up at a uh one of our commission meetings a couple of months ago and I think at the time uh while some people requested to leave them up year round I believe what we decided as a policy was to put the flags up again uh a week or 10 days two weeks before Memorial Day Before Veterans Day and leave them up for two weeks okay well thank you I just wanted to make sure there was a plan for upcoming Veterans Day thank you I just have a quick question but I want to thank you for your dedication and uh commitment to to to the cemeteries um just to follow up on Dean how how do you how do you find out if somebody is a veteran is it I mean how how how's that designation well part of in the records uh most of the records it has the deceased whether they are a veteran or not okay and currently now when someone is buried it's part of the form that we we we have them fill out saying whether they are veteran or not and so we place a medallion wherever those are and that's what we so the flags keep going in and go in and come out but the medallions stay there year round David excuse me but on many stones when my wife and I did a a survey of all of the uh every single plot in the seaside uh part of the part of the data that we were collecting not only who owned the plot who was buried there their dates of birth dates of death but on many on Many Many Stones not all but on many stones uh it does have whether or not they were a veteran it goes back actually to the 1800s so uh that's I assume that when people are veterans and they choose their Stone they have that etched into the stone um another question is um what is the what are the fees for lots and plots and and things the uh and have and they and have they stayed the same over the course of the last few years the uh oh if anyone feels that they have a relative that's buried who isn't isn't recognized as a veteran if they let us know we're we're trying to catch up on that uh so we appreciate that the fee for the plot it's the it's the only affordable housing in chadam and it's in perpetuity it's a good deal it's $800 for a plot and how long has it been $800 excuse me how long is how long has that be been change the fee I think three years ago and it's upon your recommendation that that fee gets changed or do you work with we haven't that hasn't come up yet but uh we we we periodically look at other towns and I think we are low but uh that's we haven't discussed whether to raise that or not okay thank you Corey thank you Mr chair I just want to thank say thank you for a very thorough um update for the semetary commission I we all recognize the Cemetary commission has taken some heat over the last couple years and some criticism but um but Bill nailed it right in the head with the nail right in the head is is communication collectively we communicate better that solves 99% of the issues um we have the uh means hopefully financially town meeting actions um we'll work with the town manager budget Staffing um but collectively we can execute um what the intention is of of the charge of the samary commission and frankly the desire of the public so um I thank you for your service um and I hope we can move forward in a productive manner so I'd just like to say one one thing about Staffing I mean we hear it over and over again that nobody's applying for the jobs so that's why we can't fill them well that isn't good enough anymore we've really got to do something whether it's raise the salaries or benefits or something just saying you know we're the same as other towns and every town is in the same boat isn't working so if we can't get those employees then we're going to have to go back to contracted labor that's G that a real contracted labor that's going to do a yearr round job in the cemeteries and it will cost a lot more money I believe so I'll end with that so I I I'll I don't want to unduly uh extend this conversation thanks very much to all of you clearly very dedicated uh rigorous um and and care ful attention Service uh you obviously work well together and that's that's terrific to see as well thank you very much for all of that um it it sounds to me as if two years ago we sort of had both um a consensus a governmental consensus and a budgetary uh commitment that that at least on paper was adequate to the task it also sounds to me as if somewhere along the line whether it was failure to commun communicate or otherwise um the um things kind of fell between the cracks a little bit part of it perhaps is the difficulty of hiring uh but I want to endorse what uh your your select board liaison has said we we we've we've got to do better you've put it on us we accept that I accept that on behalf or for personally as a member and I think everybody here does um I I understand there's a little bit of desire to be uh collaborative with the staff and others in the in the process but I think for us to execute on our commitment we have to ask you to stay in touch with us and let us know if it's happening and you know you can work with Rob and and the other staff and understand their issues but to the extent they have an obstacle or whatever uh if we don't hear about it uh we can't do anything about it it's a good time for this to be in front of us we're just about to start with the budget obviously this will have a much higher uh profile in our budget discussions that it might otherwise have had so thanks for that as well appreciate it thank you have a nice than for your time uh next item is uh Mr failey who's going to tell us about the wells and drinking water and so on and so forth welcome thank you Mr chair good evening selectboard Rob failey director of Public Works um so yes I will do sorry this is Lighting on me um just going to give you the September update for the Water Report um training field Wells temporary well 5 uh still online we were planning on closing it uh sometime this week but since well 6 is being redeveloped we're going to keep it online a couple weeks longer uh before we do the winter shutdown once we do the winter shutdown on that um the contractor for uh the posos treatment uh plant will take over that they'll they'll refurbish that vessel that GAC vessel and reuse that in the new building um for the building itself the uh the slab uh the foundation has been uh poured um you can see a picture here of just before it was poured um contractor is right on schedule they're doing a great job Wells uh 10 and 11 um we're still well 11 still online doing well um and well 10 we're getting closer to having some type of review from the office of uh environmental Affairs they uh they claim uh just a couple of weeks now and they'll at least have a review of the document so we'll know where we stand with that for the month of September the wells have been running 10 to 15 hours a day the water storage tanks hit lowlevel alarm six times this month uh they're still occurring Monday Wednesday or Friday um but the level the low level in the alarm in the tank is not as Extreme as it has been before well 11 came online so uh we are seeing seeing gradual improvements uh would be nice when well 10 gets online as well help us out quite a bit um same thing water sampling station maintenance is ongoing it's a pretty similar month-to-month um system maintenance we're we're starting the hydren painting um violi employees continue to inspect uh the customer residences and response to the lead and copper database so today I submitted the water service line inventory to D um we have almost 7,000 customers um we still have approximately 1,600 um where material is unknown where we don't know we can't identify the pipe going into the foundation of the house it doesn't mean that it's bad we just don't have any way to confirm that so that's what we'll be working on letters will be going out to all 1600 residents uh by November 15th to try to get access to their basements so we can do an inspection we have I believe three years to confirm that data and then we have to come up with a game plan on if any of them are lead or G unlined galvanized Piper um pipe we have to come with the game plan to replace those lines so far we have not come across any lead lines yet out of the uh 5600 that we have confirmed data on so that's a that's a good sign and of course the you had the hydraulic um analysis report by Wesson and Samson uh last month so here's the September 2023 versus September 20124 um we're about 5 million gallons more than we pumped this time last year couple of days really jump out at you um I've tracked Sundays seem to be a much higher use day than um than any other day and I'm not sure what the correlation is but um I think I've kind of we talked about that last month as well um it's not a it's not a flip day it's not uh it's just kind of an arbitrary thing I'm not sure what's happening and most of the irrigation on Monday Wednesday and Friday so uh just a anomaly that will continue to track and here it is in the uh in a graph the top part you can see we had that Heavy Rain um September 19th 20th and 21st and you can really see how the usage dipped on those three days whether it's uh foul weather or whether it's the irrigation systems are not running um it's uh we did pump very little water on those three days and here is the comparison of the monthly uh report for all all the wells you could see well four was offline for maintenance through the latter part of the month and then well six where I talked about it's under Redevelopment so that's offline currently uh we hope to have that back up and running in another week or two it's a good time a year to get our our maintenance plans completed and again here is our pumping graph just to show the level of effort for each well and then the year-to date pumping uh below that 2024 compared to 2023 we're about 8 and a. half million gallons less year-to date but we've pumped 397 million gallons already this year and here's just a year to date uh in a graph form water as far as our USGS Wells observation Wells um chadam is on top you really can see that Spike where we were on the seasonal Decline and then that eight or so inches of rain that we had three weeks ago put a dramatic halt to the seasonal deine um whether it continues to climb or whether it's just at least stop the decline which is a it's a really good sign we've had some more wet weather so I I expect it to continue continue to approve and then down below where it shows Brewster which is more of the Bell weather uh for water in the area it still had a sharp uh increase although not as drastic as cadams and I think chadam probably received the brunt of that rain for the cape uh than any other town and finally is the fiveyear comparison um the month of September we pumped uh almost 61 million gallons that's the highest for any September since 2020 uh and our pumping M hours actually match 2020 exactly uh first half of September was very dry so I think we're seeing some of that curse coming off and getting a little bit of relief towards the second half of the month I'm happy to answer any questions you may have uh Cory first thank you ra with your presentation just going back to the September 23 24 comparison um I mean I know we can't pinpoint exactly what happen certain days irrigation up dry weather whatever but on September 15th we had 103% J increase uh which is really jumping out at me any any thoughts on what happened or what what event the so the 15th this year was on a Sunday it's another one of those anomalies last year it was on a Friday um uh whether last year but but typically Fridays are when irrigation systems are still running so that's usually a heavier you stay so again it's just points of interest I'm I'm tracking them but I don't have a good excuse or explanation all right fair enough thank you anybody else oh Jeff I just think it's a great report I really enjoyed seeing it um I don't know what the next steps are on identifying additional water supply sources I'm not going to put you on the SP anybody on the spot tonight but just it's always in the back of my mind what what are the next steps that's all and I believe we'll discuss that at the next Water and Sewer advisory meeting super thanks yep anybody else thank you very much great report appreciate okay uh next we invite public comments on the business agenda I'll start with the folks here in the room anybody have comments on the business agenda yes sir Mr hogen John hogen South CH I was just wondering if you're going to have public comment on the item H I believe with Corey's Ms uh we did we had not so notified that but if that's something that is desired I I don't it was simply that you know whether now or later I just was I'll tell you what let's make it later thank you okay anybody else um um Miss Gibbs uh thank you Elaine Gibbs I have uh three items uh number one is the road plates that have been continued um I I noticed uh on here that uh the the language now says the term hereby agrees to release and hold the donor har harmless for any and all claims suits damages liability of any kind um breach contract toward negligence donor will not be liable for any indirect special uh consequential or punitive damages arising out of a relating to this agreement or transactions contemplated breach of contract negligence or otherwise um at the last meeting when uh questioned Greg Burman had said that we don't know about the structural condition of the underlying Causeway where those Road plates were put uh that they had not been evaluated uh hundreds of thousands of pounds of Boulders in 18 wheelers cross that Causeway and we don't know since it hasn't been evaluated uh what long-term impact or potential homeowner liability could be in the future um in in this uh update it said despite attempts by Town staff the trust the trustee and legal council of 97 phpp have declined to make further revisions they maintain the agreement as clear as written uh it seems to me uh that that attitude that they refuse to discuss any negotiations at all um is inappropriate uh I think there are two options we either accept the plates as a donation like we accepted uh the tree replacement with no agreement as we did with the trees or reject we reject the gift outright I think this is an absolutely terrible precedent that the town should not be giving up any potential rights for financial remedy down the road that should occur uh that's what property owners have liability insurance for uh we made a lot of accommodations granted they were for us because we didn't want you know dredgers out there but at the same time uh this is a private Venture and I don't think we should be releasing the town um from any potential action against a private property owner again they have liability insurance for a reason so that that's uh number e um H consider amending uh the meeting on public policy um I think it's ironic Miss Gibbs Miss Gibbs we we've we've agreed to uh allow the public to comment alongside of the board on that item all right see that's part of the problem you know to not tell us ahead of time because everybody goes through a lot of preparation work to anticipate it so I will hold those comments uh consider this board officer roles um uh I I think that in in that uh discussion uh in terms of having um a a chairman of the affordable housing and uh the uh select board uh should be reconsidered uh I think that uh it's an awful lot of power for one individual uh that the um State actually recommends that only one select board member be on it and then a second one actually be the planning board uh when it uh is determined uh who is going to make up that group and I think that should be considered I think it's uh there are two different missions from the affordable housing chair and for the select board uh they determine the agendas how long people can speak Etc and so I would hope that that's taken into consideration when you look at that and uh I I also concur that uh we should not be using proposition two and a half and um ex excluding and calling special Town meetings uh when town meeting has spoken so I would hope that is used judiciously and only when absolutely necessary and I will hold my comments on public participation thank you thank you uh Mr Buckley yes Steve Buckley uh I wanted to comment on uh item F Town Projects public engagement procedure but um I'm wondering if it would be better to if I would be allowed to comment at that time as well rather than now I if you have your comments and you're prepared I I suggest you go ahead and do it now well I could go on and on there as as you may know uh as some may remember um the I brought a policy to town meeting in 2014 and if you go under the select board web page you'll see public participation and one of those at the top is an article that was passed uh resolution on public participation back in 2014 so I'm very as I indicated previously I'm very uh gratified that um find finally there's something as far as implementing the policy in regards to the procedure that's been uh proposed under item F that um is finally coming to fruition on the other hand I just learned about it over the weekend since I didn't watch the meeting uh last week which was when it was first proposed to you all and so um I have all kinds of comments but um I think it's better to just let this go into effect as as it's been revised and uh use trial and error and to uh revisit it perhaps in a a year to see what's working and what's not working and uh coincidentally I I know because uh there's uh I think last week um sha out was presenting it to you and mentioned that the International Association for public participation uh is the gold standard for uh public participation slash engagement they're essentially the same engagement participation is essentially the same means the same thing so um I've been I've been the I've been attending Federal meetings on behalf of the intern interntional Association for public participation and I just wanted to let you know that Federal government's going through the same thing right now they're trying to come up with some federal framework for how all federal agencies should have some kind of standard approach so that you don't have uh boem for instance last week presenting doing public engagement their way and then the EPA doing it another way and then us do and Nas do doing it another way so I just thought i' let you know that there's a big everything's in flux in the field of public engagement so I just thought i' let you know that a lot could change over the next year and uh that's why I would suggest that it be Revisited in a year after some use there but um I would um I can throw out a bunch of uh websites but I'll hold that back I would say if somebody wants to know more about what's going on at the federal level they could look up they could Google a public engagement Federal framework that's public engagement Federal framework and if anyone has any question if they people out there who are listening to this want to contact me personally I'd be glad to give them uh a briefing but um that's about it thank you very much thank you Mr Buckley um okay anything else from the public either online or um here in the room it appears not so we'll move to um Item B which is uh voting to approve and sign the state uh presidential election warrant oh sorry the uh acceptance of the memorial bench donation at Seaside Links Golf Course um is Amy how online and if she's not maybe somebody here in the room could do do it do go ahead Kathy will yeah Kathy thank you of course so um The Parks and Recreation Commission received a request to donate a memorial bench um at Seaside Links golf course it would be placed at the ninth hole between the green and the path along the fence that's there um with a plaque um a memorial plaque inscribed with in loving memory of Brian Thompson quote never a bad day end quote um on September 19th the golf advisory committee voted unanimously to recommend accepting the donation and the director of Public Works has reviewed this and had no issue um it will be the standard bench that is typically um placed uh I believe you have a copy of that graphic it's uh the recycled plastic which is a little bit more um long lasting and kind of conforming with the benches and throughout other parts of the town so that is the request before you thank you Mr chairman yes sir I move to accept the donation of a memorial bench to be placed at the 9th hole of Seaside Links golf course as presented second uh thank you any further discussion all those in favor Mr Mets I uh Mr dykin Miss Davis I and Mr Shell says I Mr necastro I I now we'll get to the um approving and signing the state presidential election warrant is Julie Smith online to uh present that to us I don't see her Mr chair U do you want to go ahead continue on um so before you tonight um you have the state presidential election warrant uh it basically uh is requiring your approval and signature of the ballot for November um for the election it includes all of the candidates that will be included or the the sections of candidates not necessarily the names but um and then the questions that will be on the ballot for the election um I take it we need to vot yep Dean thank you Mr chairman I mean I intend to support this I do have a question uh I cast my vote and dropped it off today um I was surprised to see question seven I don't know the Genesis of it I did stop by the town clerk's office today this ballot is present presented to us by the secretary of the Commonwealth with that question on it there was no petition uh that was submitted um with signatures to the town of chadam so I just wondered if at some point we could get some verification I guess you'll have to call the Secretary of State to find out this it's not on the ballot bless you bless you it's not on the ballot in every town in the Commonwealth uh and I'm sorry on the cape and well IT addresses the fourth our our fth district yeah so it's so anyway be I'd be curious to know but in any event I I I move that we approve and sign the uh presidential election warrant for 2024 second Shireen do you want to comment yeah there was just um this came up Suddenly Dean and um nobody knew where it came from I heard it's from some citizen that does not live on the cape um but it is directed towards um peak's um District so uh which is being directly impacted by the offshore wind um project that's happening in the Gulf M so thank you I know there was some discussion of this on the radio this morning yeah supposed supposedly someone who lives in Hingham put this together thank you okay uh any further discussion all those in favor Mr necastro hi uh Mr Shell says I Miss Davis Hi um Mr dykens and Mr Mets hi thank you um next we are considering a a special one-day alcohol license for the paint sip event to benefit benefit the Samson fund and Brewster Veterinary Hospital on Saturday October 26 2024 and I believe Miss Smith is here to present um that application uh Mr chair just just for full disclosure we are client of the Dog Club I don't think it jeopardizes or compromises my position on voting tonight but just fully clear the Slate thank you glad to know you have a dog oh I'm Patty Smith from the Samson fund for veterinary care and we're a nonprofit that provides financial assistance to people who are faced with um Veterinary bills critical Veterinary bills or emergency um surgery for pets on Cap Cod in the islands um our philosophy is that we think no pet should be euthanized or denied care just because the owner can't pay the whole fee so we have numerous fundraisers throughout the year and this is something new we hope to do um an Corgan of chadam dog Club has offered her facility and it's a small fundraiser on a Saturday afternoon people come in um they have art instruction and they end up with a piece of art to take home and these are have become popular events usually they're held at night but we felt that this would be good to do in the afternoon and we like to have serve wine and it'll be a small group probably I think there's room for 20 people so there'll be 20 attendees plus probably four or five volunteers so we request the um wine and beer license thank you any questions Mr chairman I moved to Grant a special one-day alcohol permit to Patty Smith of the Sam fund for veterinary care for the Paint and Sip event on Saturday October 26 2024 from 2: to 5:00 p.m. at 82 Meeting House Road second uh any further discussion all those in favor Mr nicastro I Mr Shell says I Miss Davis Hi and Mr Dyk hi and Mr Mets hi thank you very much good luckk you next is um our Cape light com act update on the three-year plan do we have Maggie yes Maggie Downey welcome thank you everyone uh good evening um Maggie Downey I'm the administrator of the cap black Compact and with me is your appointee to the board Brian Miner Brian I didn't know if you wanted to say anything before I got started or you you got the mic okay anyway just thank you very much Brian is a very active and engaged U member of the Capel compact um and represents you and attends all of our meetings if not in person remotely as well so I'm here tonight um to give an update on the cap light compact's next three-year Energy Efficiency plan 25 through 2027 and in order to do that I'm going to lead into What's happen happen in now some of the things that are will be incorporated into the plan but I just want to remind for those of your audience who are watching at home the cap light compact Who the Cap light compact is the Capel compact is a joint Powers entity that was formed by the 15 towns on Cape Cod six towns on Martha's Vineyard um back in 1997 we reorganized in 2017 as a joint Powers entity under the municipal modernization act that was passed by Governor former governor Baker which enhanced the checks and balances um for our treasury Services it removed the treasury services from the organization has an outside function again strengthening that independent review of our finances the Capel compact is a highly regulatory regulated entity we are regulated by the Department of Public Utilities for both our power supply program and our Energy Efficiency program we have three primary functions power supply which is is providing an option for customers on to choose their supplier we are the default supplier here on the cape and Vineyard we negotiate the terms and conditions of a of a contract we were not in the market we're not purchasing at the wholesale Market we're simply negotiating the terms and conditions of a contract we also run the Energy Efficiency programs here on Cape Cod and Martha Vineyard forgive me may I want to interrupt you forgive me but I I think I see that we may have lost our internet connection and we may be visiting Ed uh by are we are we good we're good I'm sorry that's okay no please um and then 99% of our staff and our time is spent on Energy Efficiency and then last is consumer advocacy and what that means is we represent the cape in the island I'm sorry excuse me need to Che okay we're we're going to have a very short timeout here while they do what they have to do to make sure that we're functioning 100% this is not the first time this has happened today was weird you guys have usually pretty good uh my microphone is working fine can anybody hear me all right we're back online um apologies Miss Smith please go ahead no worries thanks I'll go to the next slide um I just wanted to give an overview just a reminder the Capel compacts operates on a calendar year budget and so I wanted to just give an overview of uh participation rates for the town of chadam in 20203 so we had a total of 570 um participants in the Energy Efficiency program and we returned 800 over $800,000 in incentives and rebates to residential customers and businesses within the town of chadam for 2024 I just wanted to remind everybody that we do offer no cost energy assessments for residents and businesses weatherization which is air sealing and insulation is covered up at 100% um up to 100% excuse me for all customers and if you are Income eligible or on moderate income which means you're below 80% or below the state area median income you'll have you're eligible for weatherization and insulation covered at 100% so that's no cost if you're above 80% the program pays for 75% of the total cost of insul ating or weatherizing your home or your your business uh moderate income customers can now self attest meaning you don't need to submit paperwork if you the amounts of the income levels are on our website if you feel if you are within those you just simply need to disclose that you're a moderate income customer and we'll have no cost sharing for insulation and air sealing we also offer generous um rebates for heat pumps the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has set a goal of electrifying a million homes residential homes by 2030 and in order to advance and move that forward we have heat pump rebates a whole home rebate at $10,000 and if you're doing a partial home rebate meaning you're leaving your existing heating system intact you're just going to install heat pumps for shoulder heating or cooling um it's $1,250 a ton and that kind of equates to approximately $3500 to $5500 per home so it's about slightly less than half if you're doing a partial rebate and those are just some of the rebates that are available right now in 2024 for customers we also ran an ebike program we received a grant we applied for and received a grant from the mass clean energy center to its fully it's fully subscribed it went very quickly but again um the state was uh offering incentives for low and moderate income customers as a form of transportation so we provide enhanced subsidies ranging between 12 00 $1,500 to cover the cost of ebikes we also have energy star Appliance rebates that you can submit for for room air conditioners dehumidifiers electric Clos dryers and air purifiers and all of this information and the rebate applications are on the compacts website we also ran the cape and Vineyard electrification offering CVO which just is just closed and that was a this three-year plan 20 to 20 22 to 24 we had approval to demonstr rate for 100 deed restricted homes so single family homes we did wanted to make sure that they were not left behind in any decarbonization efforts so those who wanted to participate were eligible at no cost to have their fossil fuel system heating system removed replaced with a high efficiency cold climate heat pump um and an induction electric stove as well as um a solar PV system again we wanted since you are electrifying the home we wanted to make sure that the energy burden was red so we paired that with the solar PV and um 25 homes also received batteries as a form of resilience again this was a a demonstration offering that we have to report to the Department of Public Utilities on next year to see if this is a type of program would be expanded throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts I'm very excited we actually saw a grant from the Massachusetts climate Bank who received significant Federal funding um for known as the energy saver home Home Loan program the kly compact applied to be the coner service provider and basically we appli for this go to the next slide it is a uh it is a loan it is a very low interest interest loan geared towards customers who um residential homeowners who earn less than 135% of the area median income bares County that's $66,667 this is a loan program it's a 20 year loan and I'll get to the interest rates in a second but the income amount is for the person who's listed on the deed so you can have multiple unlike many programs you could have multiple people living in a home but if the deed is in the na your name and you earn less than this you would be eligible for this Pro this low interest interest program it has to be a single family house which is two two to four units is how you define single family and we must demonstrate Energy savings so why did we pursue this and why you know what what how will it help customers as I said it is a low interest loan $10 to $100,000 and it is up to um 20 years the first 18 months are interest only there are two levels of Interest it is a uh Point half a percent for those who were below 80% of Ami and 2% for those who were between 81 and 135% of Ami participating bank here on the cape the closest one is Cape Cod um Cape Cod 5 as well as um Bay Coast sa Bay Coast Savings Bank and Bristol County Savings Bank what's exciting about this and why I'm sharing this with you and leading up until the next three-year plan is there are a series of measures that you can see on the slide that are not authorized or I'm not able to offer through the Energy Efficiency program but are very important to keeping um our residents residents of chattan throughout the cape in their home especially our senior population that may be on limited income so if for instance you may this will cover new roof repair you may need new roof in order to do insulation it will also allows for solar PV which outside of those 100 homes were not authorized to use Energy Efficiency so you can now take the Capel compacts Energy Efficiency programs rebates or 100% incentives and then pair that with the home loan to really reduce the energy burden for those customers that fit this income eligible um we also do water heating tree removal all different types of things that have been approved at the national level that we're not able to offer through the Energy Efficiency program and our role in going after this grant is is to Pro we're called conier service providers so we will facilitate we'll meet with the homeowner we'll walk them through what's available because there's a lot out there help them navigate the best way to move forward so that they have the lowest outof cost pocket expenses and they can get the most most done to keep them in their homes with lower overall energy bills and most importantly so that they're comfortable staying in their home as long as possible and we also just received this will be announced next week we finally have been authorized to offer a solar Loan program for market rate customers again this is not an income eligible program we have a very small loan our interest rate is going to be below 3% approximately 2.7 for customers who want to pursue solar on their home um with loan amounts are up to 50,000 and it's a 10year loan we also selected Cape Cod 5 through a competitive procurement process to service the loan so once again the cap light compact is simply facilitating having you fill out the application and then a third party is administering the program so you can see what we're trying to do is we're getting ready for the next three years is to take our Energy Efficiency programs maximize all of the federal programs and all rebates that are out there and making sure that our residents and businesses are aware of them and have access to them so that they can choose the best path forward determine what works and we're here and our staff here at the Capel compact are available to help you help customers and businesses decide what's in their best interest so where are we going for the 2527 plan it there's been a shift at the state level We Now by Statute under the 2022 climate Act act have to comply our we used to just save kilowatt hours I've been here for many many years talking about kilowatt hours reducing efficient lighting reducing your overall energy burden well state law has now mandated that caply Compact and along with all the other program administrators investor own utilities now have a second mandate that we have to comply with which is decarbonization we are now given specific greenhouse gas reduction goals that we have to meet through the delivery of our three-year Energy Efficiency and decarbonization plan and this will be without uh throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts as I said earlier it is focused significantly on electrification the goal is to and the focus of the next three plan will be those that heat with either electric resistance oil or propane to move them off of those fuels onto high efficiency heat pumps because they are less cost they are cost less to run those programs through the heating and cooling than the existing systems natural gas systems are not the focus so it's always encouraged if somebody wants to switch because right now the economics do not work in their favor if you switch from natural gas to a heat pump you will be increasing your overall energy burden you will be definitely significantly reducing your greenhouse gas emissions but increasing your overall cost which is why we're focusing on the other three Oil propane and electric resistance heat just I think everybody it's on our website I think think it's pretty um well known but the act of 2022 also uh prohibits us from offering any rebates for fossil fuel heating systems that's been phased out we used to talk about having high efficiency furnaces and boilers that for fossil fuel systems we are no longer able to offer um those rebates per state per state law so as I talked about what are the goals decarbonization equity and customer experience uh we've had sever recent studies evaluations that have identified um a significant customer group that have not participated though they've paid into the programs through their electric and gas bills every month but specifically uh moderate income customers and renters and small businesses have not been participating at the same rate that they're push that have been putting into the programs over the last years so the 25 2027 policy goals as determined by this Commonwealth will focus on decarbonization equity and cust customer experience we have several small business enhancements that will support decarbonization we're expanding access to um the direct option pathway which what does that mean a lot of technical terms the ability for instant rebates weatherization for small businesses prioritizing main streets we've been to through chadam we've done many main streets we'll continue to reach out and work directly 100% incentives for charitable nonprofit organiz ganizations this was something that the board actually um came up with this recommendation over six years ago that has now been adopted throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts again focusing on small charitable nonprofits that don't have the wherewithal to come up with a co-pay to insulate or to change out their lighting they now have 100% um incentives and we will also be delivering as I said um expanding what's available to renters and land landlords a lot of our small businesses rent their space but they're responsible for paying the overall utility bill so it's hard to engage the landlord to invest when there's they might not necessarily be a return for them so again many of the programs we'll be F that we'll be focusing on will be offering up to 100% incentives for small businesses as a way to engage the loan lower to help them Implement and uh move forward with any recommendations so this is our what will be offered Statewide as I said for residential and lowincome um customers as well as moderate income customers and renters if you are a lowincome that means you're below 60% of the state Ami or SMI you're eligible now for 100% with income verification that's what that little um checklist means we have to income verify and prove that you're actually eligible um for 100% weatherization barrier mitigation and that that could mean anything from you have mold uh vermiculite in your attic uh need a new panel because you have knob and two and these things are preventing V ing you from moving forward with some Energy Efficiency or renewable measures and you'll also have be eligible for 100% electrification which means a new heating system a high efficiency cold climate heat pump so at no cost for lowincome customers regardless of whether you own or rent that the that the building the home that you're in moderate income customers have also with self-attestation that they're in this income credit when when they're in this income category they can self attest and will receive 100% weatherization it is a turnkey pathway meaning you'll use a vendor that's been selected by the Capel compact has been vetted so that we know we're getting the best and lowest prices for any of the implementation of the measures again 100% for barrier mitigation and electrification if you decide you want to use your own contractors there are still incentives they're just not um as rich and the reason we have a turnkey path is because we are trying to keep some cost controls and not um for the program market rate customers still have very generous incentives for if you're a renter regardless of your income you are eligible for 100% weatherization 75% for market rate customers as well as um funding available for barrier mitigation and I talked earlier about the um incentive for heat pumps it'll be slightly higher it's going to be 2,000 per condenser um in the next plan for partial um partial Replacements so again big F focused I think Rich incentives for our low and moderate income customers as well as renters within the cape and Vineyard and throughout the Commonwealth so what are we doing what are we planning what is the board focusing on it's compact enhanced customer service the ability to triage the best program identify incentives and really uh our offices are in Yarmouth we're available via phone you can email us or you can come see us walk in you know with your electric bills with your gas bills and and ask for help on what programs are out there we have information on the tax incentives at the federal level again all designed to help customers reduce their overall energy burden we're also working with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts um they will be receiving $24 million annually from all of the electric and gas rate payers to develop and diversify our Workforce it's no secret I was listening to your um your Cemetery secretary we are all struggling to fill jobs within the Commonwealth we have an aging Workforce especially in the utility and energy field so we are working with our Tech schools on trainings both the upper cape and the harage tech Cape Tech to make sure that we have programs in place that are training the next generation of workers so that they can continue um keep the lights on and heat running you have lots of information just on mass safe data I put this in there just for the audience so it will be on your website anyone has questions they want to know what's happening how much money's been spent where are the incentives going we have tons of information links on our website as well as also available Statewide we have we do lots of marketing we're always trying to expand our Outreach making sure that customers are aware of these programs these are our programs we pay for these programs every month on our utility bills so feedback uh from customers what's working what's not working what you'd like to see uh we we would' like to think we provide lots of opportunities to educate expand information but we're always open to other venues if we're missing something last two slides I I just added as a result of actually was town of Yarmouth asked me to put in some information on our power supply program um our rates are always posted on our website uh they change every six months they will be changing again in January of 2020 um five forgot what year we're were in thanks uh 2025 I also put this in uh slide in which shows we've been doing this a long time 2002 was the first power supply contract renegotiated we you can see the Capel compact rates are in green um the utilities B basic Service rates are in blue there are times when we have been above and there are times Mo predominantly where we are slightly less than I think almost 70% of the time but we have been slightly less uh in our supply rates than than the investor own utility but it is a competitive market customer customers can choose their supplier and we're always here to help we frequently get calls with somebody that's got something in the mail they don't understand it should I sign this we always say I always advise never sign anything to see all the details but if you get a good if you do shop the market you can find good rates you have to be a Savvy Shopper and we're here to help to make sure that customers can do that and then the last slide which is always had what people and you can see from the previous slide as what is driving higher prices um they and they are higher they're higher than they were when they started those those lines graph lines have gone gone up and up and we broke this down into you know two slides the supply side and the delivery side the supply side is what the Capel compact negotiates a contract for and what's driving it are two things we have public policy um decisions on the supply side that are increasing the renewable portfolio standards policies laws that have been passed that are encouraging and requiring um moving off of fossil fuels in order to respond and reduce greenhouse gases respond to climate change all of those things add costs to the overall Bill since they've started um so there are compliance public policy and compliance with law we also see natural gas prices and what's driving natural gas prices are two two things just for the audience we have pipeline capacity constraints we are at the end of the pipeline getting new natural gas lines into New England is very challenging building new gas pipelines in a very densely populated area is very very hard to do we have increasing demand for natural gas in the winter time the majority of our electric 50% of the homes on the cape are heated with natural gas and in the winter time our electricity is also heated with combined cycle plants so you have increasing demand for the same resource which has limited ability to get here and when you add that with the war in Ukraine because the majority of our winter gas comes in the form of LNG which is liquid n liquid natural gas comes in and tanker TRS to Everett as a result of what's happening in Europe and the inability to have access to lower cost Russian gas our natural gas is being diverted or in order to keep it coming to us we have to pay prices that they would be competing with with Europe we're hoping as time goes by things change we will see um some of these factors go away and those will no longer be putting upward pressure on prices and it's the same on the delivery side that's your transmission and just distribution increases we've had rate cases we've has new substations we're hardening our infrastructure um and there's been so all of these things are putting upward pressure on our utility bills so that was my last last slide here's just you know information on how if anybody wants to sign up for a newsletter or to reach out to us there's lots of information so I know I went over a lot of material and I probably spoke too faster than I wanted to so I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have uh Jeff I just have a couple of comments and questions I think you do a great job mag you do you do speak quickly but very everybody can really understand you I think you're very clear I enjoy your presentations just like H how is the cap light compact funded funded yeah we are funded um by 99% of our budget is funded with Energy Efficiency funds and Energy Efficiency funds are collected every month by all of the rate payers on the cape and Vineyard they're collected by ever source and then they are returned back to the cape like comp to administer the Energy Efficiency programs that budget is a three-year budget that is approved by the Department of Public Utilities and and how many times can you change your power supplier is it a customer or me yeah no no a customer if I want to change I've got you know non cap light compact power supplier I can change anytime I from the compact you can change any time so you can leave and come back there's no restriction on that um and it I believe it's the same for going to eversource basic service so you could jump between the two and and watch the market if you are going to a competitive supplier if you've signed a contract you may have to stay with that contract for a period of time gotcha and and N tuck is UN involved um what's the deal there n Tucket is involved in the energy saver Home Loan program we're pro we're facilitating services for them for a fee but not in the Energy Efficiency program because they have a different um the different investor own utility when we started back in in the late '90s God I'm dating myself um they were Mass Electric whereas everybody else was um Commonwealth electric so they had a different Distribution Company and are you and are Brian um pleased with the numbers in chatam uh signing up 570 residents I was or the number am I pleased with the numbers 499 residents in chatam the hardest and I the hardest population to reach our second homeowners second homeowners we always struggling to reach second home owners they're here for two months of the you know if they're only here for the summer or a limited time they don't necessarily want to be having somebody come in doing home energy assessment and insulating there so it is making those connections on how best to serve and reach them some are property managers working through property managers and so we're always looking for an open to ways to do that but that is our hard to- reach hard to serve Market in the chadam in many of our Outer Cape towns thank you Magie thank you and I would just add that this is a complicated category uh energy and appliances and sources of of fuel energy so on on top of an already well organized organization this new complexity and so I think cap light compact is responding with new programs but 570 participants and $895,000 sounds like you could be satisfied with that like it's okay it should be a lot bigger and so Maggie's primary audience is not the 10 or so people sitting in this room but we this this slide is even a little complicated but Maggie and her team want to be engaged by citizens residents of not just chadam but other communities so find a way if if if if your preferred way to interact with the service provider is not on this page call Maggie at the cap light Compact and she'll help have you plugged into our energy and climate action committee at all yes good okay great thank Youk thank you so appropo that does um and the complexity is daunting and and it and it's uh and the business about not signing anything makes people including us reluctant to do anything um so my question is um if you move away from ever source does that to Capel light compact um does that have any effect on any of the benefits that you're receiving for example if you have solar no none none okay thank you receive one bill regardless of who your supplier is um it wouldn't infect any net metering um and the best way for the audience for anyone is to call the kly Compact and talk to our staff and schedule a home energy assessment I mean I always say it's our money if nothing else it's good have the home energy assessment and find out check my home home's in good shape I don't need to do anything okay thank you very much anybody else thank you that was indeed very comprehensive very understandable and uh very quick thank you very nice to see everyone thanks okay next uh consider donation of Road plates um uh Greg and maybe some help from Rob I don't know hopefully Greg Burman your director of Natural Resources um so I just wanted to go over pretty much what's been going on since the last time we chatted about the road plates so this is um roow plates that were put down by 97 to Lippy run there was an initial $1 sales agreement that Our Town Council uh worked with their Council to convert to a donation agreement that donation agreement um is shown in the packet as a red line and I believe one of the main sentences that the select board had an issue with uh was actually written by Town Council so this is um it was slightly adjusted from that red line uh down to the current donation agreement the Our Town Council you know noted the adjustments in that donation agreement as reasonable I did go back to the applicant and the trustee to see if they would adjust it further um they weren't willing to adjust it further this isn't um this isn't a lack of willingness throughout the process uh they have budged a bit along the way um this is apparently as far as they're willing to go through the donation agreement and this time I do have our DPW director Rob failey to discuss uh the condition of the tide gate before the plate was put down and potentially some uh what would happen if we left it there what would happen if it was taken out and restored back to original condition uh but I think those were some of the questions I wasn't able to answer for you last time before you do that just to stay on the topic you were just on can you tell us precisely what the language was that you asked for and that they felt was not necessary or or or basically said no right I it was my understanding that um really that first sentence and slightly below it in that packet that discussed let's see um agree to release and hold the donor harmless from any and all claim suits damages and liability of any kind period that's under number three right it it's the it's the the paragraph entitled release paragraph three and it's the first sentence and what did you ask for I asked for them to make that less Broad and in such that it would apply just to the roope plates it was their understanding that it already just applies to the roope plates that this entire agreement only applies to the road plates yeah so that sentence that you just read I think you read it Mr chair um that was inserted by Our Town Council the red line above yeah I'm looking at the red line version right so the in your memo the town hereby agrees to release and hold the donor homelets from any and all claims suits damages and liability of any kind and it looks like I'm guessing Town Council struck their language which said which said that seller will not be liable for any indirect special consequential or punitive damages including lost profits that's correct is that correct and and Town Council struck the last sentence in that section in no event will the seller's liability exceed the price the buyer paid to the seller that's those that g yes and then after we reach this current donation agreement uh Town Council was able to review it again and deemed it as reasonable but what you asked and I think what you asked Mr chair so you went back to the donor and what did we ask them to do following what this board discussed did we ask them to take that provision out of there yes the whole provision just oh the entire sentence yeah so that taking that sentence striking and making it into um only applicable to the road plates so we were going to keep the first sentence well the the first sentence would not be entirely Struck it would be reduced to only Road plates it would pre-qualified so there would be a few words at the end that said uh liability of any kind however they wanted to phrase it in relation to the road plates and their response I'm reading between the lines here is that when they say it already is limited to the road plates because the language says arising out of Rel or out of a relating to this agreement or transactions contemplated herein so I'm assuming that's well but that's the second sentence the first sentence I I'll be very honest with you I read the first sentence that we're we're releasing them for their obligation to pay their their real estate taxes I mean it says of any kind I mean there is no limitation there I I I just think that's and over I think if you added I think you're looking at something different I'm looking at the agreement look at the memo it's in Red so it it's qualifying the sentence continues on after the word kind I don't know if that that's what I think they're saying back to us oh oh oh it it includes the the limitation arising out of or relating to this agreement are the transaction contemplated herein I I I don't I mean if that's what it said if I don't know what the what is the agreement I mean the thing that the guy signed is what I was reading from yeah that's the original I think we don't have a we don't have a clean copy is it yeah I I I think that the current donation agreement should have been included in the packet with the red line right sep so that this I think it's the it's this right yeah I but what what but to Dean's Point what they what the memo says is the change from Town Council oh so then oh all right but the here it is current but if you this is the current okay so it's langage so the doc in at the very La the very last page is not the agreement we're being asked to approve yes it is because that's different from this is it this language is what's in the in the agreement that we're being asked to approve I think I don't think it's as good as what's in red I'm sorry the the red line is from Our Town Council where is the and they don't accept that they adjusted it down to the current donation agreement they turned it into counil that was the back and forth they turned it into two sentences and they kept the language about indirect special consequential punitive arising out of a related to this agreement or the transaction transactions contemplated here in they want all that stuff in there I interesting I I I the one thing I I don't have a problem with what they've said and my colleagues May disagree with me as long as that first sentence is qualified by arising out of or whatever the language is that is later um that that um AR arising out of or relating to this agreement of the transactions contemplated herein if that qualification on the first sentence is there then I I don't have a problem with it but the the first sentence as it is in this agreement here which I think is what we're being asked to sign I I believe that that relieves them of liability for everything including their taxes or a parking ticket or anything else that's just an error in my humble opinion I mean during the conversations the yeah no I I that's pretty clear Brad yeah well it but it it I don't believe they I mean I don't I don't know what the the conversation was we're putting Greg in an unfort in in an unfair position here because he's relating conversation that went on between lawyers and but this is a mistake I mean no nobody could seriously argue that is an appropriate way to resolve this back and forth here it just needs to relate to to to the to the we could say arising out of this agreement of transaction contemplated hereby all you need to add that to that first sentence yes yep that that oh sorry Cory well I was going to turn the topic to a slightly different focus on the topic I I think because we were brought this before us on September 10th and elements of the the evolution of how these plates even came about is is as different on this cover letter than my uh understanding back on September's meeting because I went back to the the file and we were talking with Town Council and the tape and Jay was saying you know he hases have a very strong feeling on this really has to be brought to the board as a policy discussion um but what jumped out at me was his and I quote this how the plates arrived on Town property was curious and that's what concerns me because we have a policy discussion you know the condition of the road before all this started during it start you know during its construction in the future how it's going to be stand up over time and how this could possibly translate to you know other projects throughout the town that's where I'm struggling with because I think from a policy perspective um I'm less inclined to accept the plates um to protect our future interests and other aspects of the community um I don't think the it's it's worth taking this action and never mind you know worrying about how the document reads or doesn't read I I would stay far away from this so can I add something on top of that before Rob speaks because this goes to what I think we might be hearing from Rob I thought Ela Gibbs made a good point we've had tons and tons of rocks going over these plates we don't know the condition of the substructure and whether it has been whether it has deteriorated as a result of the transaction that the trans middle of these rocks I mean I'm I'm referring back to when I was on the planning board you know these kind of situations these projects usually somehow got have either conditions performance bonds some kind of element of protection to protect the community the neighborhood etc etc from this type of wear and tear um to bring the road back to you know initial conditions so I know this was kind of done in an emergency manner it was kind of fast-tracked in a negative way but just things roll really quick um so the process was a little bit probably different than typical so I just don't know what what where our protections are or we had any protections put in place for this particular situation sure so as Miss Gibb said there were hundreds of trucks uh 20 A Day In some cases and this was before the work was actually being performed so even before the work performed they were still massing Stone on the property so they didn't need a conservation permit just to do that prep work uh so trucks were crossing over this Causeway um significant weight significant numbers of them Town staff were concerned I was concerned we talked amongst ourselves it seemed and I don't want to completely talk for you here Rob but I I it was my uh impression that we strongly thought that road plates would be a good idea so we encouraged the applicant to put down Road plates uh before something happened because the condition of that road had some sink holes and some issues even before this Trucking was happening this has been an area we've looked at um for some time for a larger scale redesign and Remediation but if the road plates are left they could be left until that remediation effort uh if not Rob can you know discuss they they would restore it to the original condition but the original condition wasn't that great be just it and I don't want to complicate things here but I'm trying to you know figure out how we deal with Corey's point and and it prompts the question from me what happens if we just say thank you no thank you um we're not signing the agreement period done you do what you want to you can take the plates out if you want you can leave them in if you want but we're not in the agreement what happens sure so they would probably remove the plates and at that point it might be a good time for Rob to discuss you know the condition before and you know our strategy afterwards we're clear they would what would be the uh advantage to them of removing the plates they wouldn't have to purchase the plates right now they're dis leased but they would be purchased by the applicant and then he would be given to the town so um and the lease period is for a and who put them in that was Robert bow okay and and and and somebody else owns them at the present time I don't think it's Robert B hour they leased it through another company I don't know who that would be so this they're making a donation well no I understand that but I we're we're having a problem with accepting the donations so they would pick them up they would remove the road plates because great if the donation is not accepted the donation is not accepted the donor is Tippi is the is the yeah but Tippy doesn't own the plates he's leasing well he's going to buy them and give them to us I assume and and do we want them so it was in conversations it's SE Town staff thought let me ask you a qu I'm sorry forgive me but so if that's the case why don't we just buy the plates from whoever owns them and leave Tippi and and Reserve all of our legal rights going forward we certainly could that's that's an option if you want the pl I don't know whether you want them or not but I have the feeling you might so this was an opportunity to have the owner of 97 Tippi put the plates as part of the mitigation for the work being done on the property so the Conservation Commission allowed some mitigation onsite but there's not as much room as there was due to the erosion so they were encouraging some off-site kind of outside the box mitigation the uh donation for tree work was just a check in hand so that was I believe somewhat easier uh this the roope plates are in place they seemed well installed so that was an impression by Town staff that you know they're doing a good job right now we think so it was reasonable to uh have the town take them well but let me ask you this if you've said he'll take them away can he do that consistent with the the uh mitigation agreement with the the Conservation Commission so we did spell that out in the Conservation Commission agreement that he had to make the plates available and that the agreement had a certain amount of time to do it um it didn't say that he had to donate them but he but does it say he can't take them away it does not say that no so how what makes you so sure that he can take them away well he could he does not have to provide them to the town uh if the town does not accept them it did not say that there' be no strings attached in the Conservation Commission mitigation language but but but the plates are in the road now right he's provided them yes well they they're they are in the road is I'm sorry I'm not sure what you're asking well I you're you're saying I'm I'm asking if he put the plates in there's a there's a condition which I don't have in front of me but there's a there's a conservation mitigation condition that says you have to provide the plates make them available whatever the Lang you got to put them in the road they're there does that condition allow him at some point in the future to take them away oh okay I guess I didn't understand that before so once the donation is made if the town accepts the donation then he wouldn't be able to take them after that it would be Town property well no that I understand but I'm saying if we don't accept if we just say we're not signing your agreement do what you want to with the plates then yes you could take them away at that point consistent with the Conservation Commission condition yes we're sure of that it we didn't have Town Council review it it's my understanding and their understand conservation commission's understanding that the mitigation is phrased such that the offer had to be made good faith and that there was a stipulation that the town had to accept them Greg is he done with his work is is this it that's why I relatively soon it could be a matter of a week or two so once he concludes it so so if the plates are removed what is the security say we don't accept the agreement plates are removed what is the security that the road will be brought back to its original condition pothole whatever what is that what where where do we stand with that that's the responsibility of the applicant to restore it to the condition it was before the plates were put down no other conditions no bonds no another mechanism that's available to the town correct yeah there were Lessons Learned we probably wouldn't do it this way again how much are these plates worth 20,000 sorry 20,000 installed the install is three 4,000 so let's assume our owns them and we want to adopt the chair's suggestion if we wanted to buy them from Robert PR we'd be paying about $20,000 would probably be slightly less than that just cuz there are already installed unless we removed them and reinstalled them for some reason they're used they're used so they should be discounted um and and and would what our or whoever owns them sell them to us without condition I mean there would probably be a sales agreement but there're yours okay thank you yeah go ahead Jeff no I I just assume that we does he need the plates now to complete his job until the trucking is finished till the trucking is finished do would we like to have the plates after the trucking is finished do we need them so after this project is done there's at least one more in the works that's probably not going to be at the same scale but still going to involve the same kind of Trucking in rock so it would make sense to have plates there thank you okay I can't believe we can't just one I'm sorry sh but I just can't believe we can't add an addendum to that first sentence and get over this yeah why can't they just say well I really think that I agree with you at a minimum but I I'm sort of I've been moved over toward Cory's point of view here which is I first of all I if if if the Conservation Commission said you got to put the plates in as a condition of of your permit um then your order conditions I I it it it seems illogical to me that they would say but when you're done you can take it back take them back they probably didn't say anything but I I I just I just sort of think that we're being asked to Grant a a release here from all liability or liability that relates to the road problems um in exchange for 16,000 or $20,000 worth of plates um and I you know I I I'm not looking at this from a legal point of view I'm looking at it from just a plain old business point of view that if you know forget the agreement if you insist take your plates and we'll figure out how depending on what you folks tell us we need we'll either buy the plates or we'll do whatever to mitigate but we'll retain our rights against the owner that's where I'm coming from De I oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I've been very patient no um just to clarification here so um you know the stipulation that the um the road had to be brought up to whatever conditions good B indiff existing exist um um conditions so would it be contemplated that the owner would remove the plates and fix the road well fix it back to the condition it was beforehand or there's a lot work to get it up to some kind of reasonable standard okay all right no wait a minute I know where you're going I know where you're going thank you so it's just so the the owner right now is leasing the plates so what if we wanted to lease the plates because how long are we going to need these plates as a town likely until we actually you know tear out the tie gate and reinstall something better design so you know even getting to that stage we're talking at least three years I was just wondering how much would cost to lease versus purchase thing these these from whoever owns them thank you my only two sentence was again like if if the had to go to a scenario where the road needed to be brought back to this original condition and there's other projects in the shoot coming down that road they're going to pause and be like I'm not doing it right now but I'm going to fix it and you know it's going to be worn wear and tear so maybe we'll deal with this further down the road so it's it's it's a it's a problem I don't think we it's I don't it's a problem I think we don't want to take tackle in the manner that it's being presented I think if we want the plates we buy the plates we think about the row conditions I mean the thing that makes me completely unnerved about all this is that we didn't have the mechanisms at least in my belief either a performance bond or something that was security to to kind of protect the town in this one but we don't have have it Lessons Learned um I am not inclined to accept the The Proposal before us tonight can I just ask by the way I'm I'm with you as well but um um Rob do we want these plates I think if uh we have a need for them whether it's at this location or other locations we have aging infrastructure that uh occasionally we have a need for plates but but I'm I'm focused on this specific I mean if we if let's hypothetically say he takes the plates away what are we going to do so upon visual inspection the super structure the the span the concrete span of the bridge was in really good shape uh especially due to its age there was no spalling or efflorescence or anything like that it's the abutments they are wooden peers um they're allowing uh sediment and fines to leech into the Waterway whether it's due to like tidal action or floods or just from migration from gravity and that's what's creating depressions on the approaches uh creating sink holes all that material is slowly migrating into the Waterway so we're rebuilding it that's pretty much what we wanted the plates to cover those spans the heavy truck loads would just the vibrations would further uh degrade those approaches and that's what we wanted the plates for to protect that so you're saying you you don't for normal traffic even in the condition the road is in now you don't necessarily need those I uh normal traffic is degrading the approaches to the road so I I would rather have plates in place on those approaches we've patched them in my short time here I think we've patched those approaches three times already okay well I I I yeah de do we own any plates do we have any we don't have we don't we typically if we have a large excavation like that we'll hire somebody like Robert peow and they'll bring their own plates for us to use well I guess in some I'm with Corey and Mike I and I don't like the the fact that they wouldn't go along with the rather modest language that was proposed by Town Council so I I wouldn't accept it myself could I just add one thing that first sentence actually comes from IR toown Council in the redline version he he there there's something that first sentence as it is written needs I don't care who wrote it it it it doesn't say what we we should have it say as a town but the way the way Town Council edited edited their language has the qualification arousing of that modifies it's not the sentence doesn't end with the word kind in town council's version and they wouldn't accept that so I so I think the only the only question that we ought to be clear to give um uh Greg and Mark uh Mark sorry um Rob clear um positioning on is whether with the language with the qualification uh that that limits the um release uh and indemnity to uh rising out of this agreement and and uh the transaction contemplated thereby whether with that language we would accept the the donation agreement or not that's the that's that's the the question here um and I say I I don't want to complicate things too much here but we we can I that that would be a that would be a practical answer that if everybody else were in agreement I could go along with even though my business attitude is well you know you do what you want to with the plates we're not signing this agreement well if I sir the flaw the flaw in the agreement the way it reads now is exactly that if we added that if they agree to that language I could agree to the acceptance of the plates because it sounds to me like long term or longer term Al Bea we have we have issues but we're going to need the plates we're going to want the plates uh that's that's what I hear um so I mean I'd go back another bite at the Apple and say this is where we're hung up and you you just got to get rid of that language other yeah I was just telling the board the board sign it without it so we're not going to sign it without it I mean that would be my that's my my those are my thoughts if we agree yeah I I would I wouldn't it's I'm just saying $20,000 for plates added to the budget if if we're going to need them in other areas potentially maybe let's consider adding adding to the budget and and foret all the other you know I hate these string string attached scenarios but just keep it clean I wouldn't I wouldn't I I I just want to ask what you mentioned another project coming down the road is it the same guy no no it's a different property on is okay so we're done with this guy after this is over well I'm not sure we can ever say that with Coastal property but there's nothing expected after this one ends okay is there any requirement for the next homeowner to have plates or provide protection to the roadway we would definitely uh not do it the same way so the answer is that that could be a requirement of whoever else is traveling along the Town Road in order to do the The Rock R yeah it could be a requirement with a bond with an inspection beforehand and after but hopefully that well even if it is an emergency uh certification we would require that I just want to comment we did raise this issue when we heard about the 900 truckloads of stone going down to morisan I remember it clearly we go back and look we we talked about it that it's going to be damaged to the road but they were going to come through town so we rerouted them up Shore Road blah blah blah and we were worried about the roads but you know um again I you guys know where I am uh I could live if we get the language we wanted I could live with it because I think we're going to need them Sayes a step of Downstream negotiating with r or anybody I mean it's just you know anyway I might live with it but I'm beginning to think there's an attitude problem here if they won't accept the language the qualifying language of the first sentence that troubles me you want to go back to them and ask them Corey has said said course no absolutely not and I get it one very very small if we leave the plates where they are the road was traveled on with hundreds of with with several I know hundreds of trucks prior to the plates some wear and tear significant wear and tear I would I suggestion has already happened to the road we keep the plates there at some future time I mean that when we pull that back we're going to have a bit of a mess potentially it's going to be an our time I I think s it pull what back if we pull the place back down the road whatever's underneath that is going to come out of our pockets the town's pockets it's not going to come out of our private so that's an argument to keep them in place no I think that I think they put it there they need to remove those and put the road back in place to where it was before yeah but that's a lawsuit lawsuit but well that's a lawsuit I mean it's not like that's my argument there there was no bond there was no well I understand but the effect is to make him do that you're going to have to sue them I mean I I I'm sympathetic to you know tell them to pound sand tell them you know we don't like your attitude whatever but this has been going partly this is the the the Conservation Commission trying to help us there's a lot of water under the bridge already and I I think if we got the agreement the way we want wanted it leave the plates in place um it's not a perfect solution but it's it's you know we can move on as opposed to having to get into an argument about buying the plates and get taking them out and lawsuits and everything else yeah Jee did Our Town Council speak to council or did you guys speak to council who who who represented the town no so this was just back in the councils did not interact directly it was just red lines and letters going back and forth got well did you have anything that being the case why not let me I suggest let's instruct Town counsel to talk to their councel and get the language in a form that's agreeable to us and if they don't as far as I'm concerned keep your donation we'll buy the plates from Robert Bri hour I'm with you whoever good yep great yeah I I'm I'm fine with that I just let's be clear we're not signing the agreement unless that language that we're focused on that that that we have right in front of us is in the agreement if they want to put that in we'll sign it otherwise we're not doing it yeah understood do we need a vote on that always good I mean all right so move to approve the negotiating position just articulated second all those in favor Mr nicastro I Mr Shel says I Miss Davis I Mr Dyk and Mr M hi okay thank you no that was fun um so next we have um Town's public engagement procedure sha welcome good evening um shaa NE your Communications manager um before you again tonight is the project public engagement process uh you had the first reading of it last week I Incorporated the suggested minor edits to to the procedure and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have uh also included is uh an internal worksheet that might have given you a better idea of how we would evaluate the projects de thank you sha I I had one suggestion on page five and it's the fourth first paragraph which begins always update the community the second sentence which reads acknowledging the contributions of the public di diminishes the misconception that local officials are out of touch or do not listen to the community I I'm troubled a little bit by the tone of that because it suggests that um this language that the undertaking the acknowledgement is simply for public perception purposes and I wondered if we could strike everything that begins with the word diminishes down to the end of the sentence and and and substitutes something like helps ensure the confidence of the public in the attentiveness of town officials to public needs and concerns something like that sure do we have to adopt this tonight y I still would like to mul it over I and you know if um that's my my sentiment anyway Mr chair would so um we would we've been holding this for about a year working on it internally and so may I suggest that if you it's a procedure so if you do adopt it tonight we can do I think as Mr Buckley had suggested come back a year from now and certainly there's some course Corrections that can be done if if there's any um specific public Outreach that may not be listed here but that would have U benefit to the public as a whole so right now we have nothing and what we have is just uh I'm sorry Shauna's good work and and having uh 12 people who are involved with projects work really hard to have consistency with Communications and that was one of the reasons why we wanted to document the the procedure um but we can always change it if we find that it's not satisfying our needs or your needs as a select board well I I and I appreciate that Jill and I I'm very sympathetic but I my knee-jerk reaction has been and and I like for example your comment Dean I I'd really like to have another look at it um and I I if we you know I I I appreciate the the suggestion that we can look at it in the year but I'd like to really be happy with it um when we go out with it so that that would be my attitude maybe others feel differently Corey no I have no problem trying to flush this out a little bit better um I mean essentially this thing is not going to be set in stone once we dropped it anyway we can we can amend it we can you know make changes to it um review it every year you know there's multiple options I think the intent is is solid I I I appreciate the intent of this um you know maybe there's some elements that we need to tweak a little bit here and there if the board wants to work on a little bit longer no objection to that U I think we're going in the right direction by bringing something like this forward um because we don't have anything in place at the moment and um we're not going to know if it's going to work or not until we actually implement it and kind of evaluate it as it moves along but if we want to take a little bit longer on this I'm not going to give you any push back on that Jeff does this um yeah and I'm fine with that as well U but does this give the primarily the staff a framework from which to organize how we communicate about projects is that is that what you guys are aiming for here that is the intent to bake communication planning into projects from the very outset and have the staff agree that this is a a coherent approach and one they want they want to apply kind of universally depending on the Acuity the gradations of the of the the levels I should say staff has reviewed it multiple times yes I'm fine with waiting I mean I I'd like to digest a little bit more too to be honest with you um I want to see if it really does drive that that goal that aim if you will of providing a framework for the staff and and it's it seems a little cumbersome to me to be honest with you um um but anyway I I don't mind waiting I was fine going ahead with it tonight um so I'm just going to take and say that um but I'll concede to the rest of the everybody if they want to take an a little longer with it um I I could have done that as well but I I the the one thing that I would like to to feel comfortable with is I appreciate the effort to regularize and and and make and be consistent and treat similar cases similarly um and and have that you know out for everybody to be looking at and operating with the same set of with the same framework um I you know to me there's it's it's always the exception that approves the rule and I I'd like to read this with the thought of you know does it does it allow for the special case where there's a different consideration that needs to be taken into account and you know if you'll give me another week I'll do it and then we'll we'll adopt it and that'll be that just why don't we incorporate Dean's comments and we'll we'll do another review of it and then we we'll give you some time so we won't come back next week we it can be you know the last meeting of the month or or just wanted to come back to it because also we're going to tie into your goals and objectives and this has been a a consistent and long-standing goal of the of the select board about Communications okay okay um thank you um next case uh the this is the proposal to amend the town's budget financial management policies to limit the ability of the town when borrowed money when borrowing money to ex debt under proposition two and a half Etc Dean I will let you present thank you Mr chairman uh I'm going to keep this brief because uh we I presented this a couple weeks ago to to the board um and this language is not um uh prohibitive of um calling the second town meeting the special town meeting after um the U Town election um that followed um a failed vote to um borrow the money but um and I there's a memo in the file that I submitted to you previously what's new since we last heard this we did refer this to the finance committee um they met and voted five to two to recommend it I was present at that meeting um for the purpose of um presenting the item um the chairman had contacted me and to answer questions I expressly did not ask them to vote in either direction there was a very Rob robust debate in discussion among the finance committee members but that was their vote uh also in the material is um since then we have a very short opinion of Town Council um and emails from Bond Council and the town's financial advisors all three of which say that they have no objection to this so um that's it um I would I will offer a motion just just to get it on the table that the board approve the proposed amendment but I know that we haven't substantively discussed this and that may be something you all want to do because last time we simply voted to refer this to finance I'll leave it um thanks I just wanted to make a note about our town council's um response he did not have any uh problem with the um um with the non-binding policy but what he did say at the end was that that he said as a council I'm always wary of setting a policy that limits even superficially the options of the select board that I represent I just want to make that that make sure that that was made clear thank you um May I respond to that point after anyone else I was gonna say did you make a motion yeah he made a motion I'll second the motion for discussion okay further discussion further discussion um yeah this is an interesting one um um I'm somewhat ambivalent believe it or not um I think that um the danger with using this uh mechanism if you will would if it would become routinized um and uh going forward if our select board relied on it as a as a to to use it you know routinely which it's kind of unfortunate that we've done it's it's happened twice over the last year or so a couple years last year or so but I I a couple things that the in each individual instance I believe they're very unique the counc on Aging vote was extremely unique in as much as it lost by one vote twice which is I think never happened before in such a major issue in this town so I don't think it was untour to revisit it timely because of the nature of the vote plus it was the first time we use electronic voting blah blah blah so so there was enough not Cloud but there was enough stuff going going on that in my mind was warranted the use of this of of this mechanism if you will then the second time around it's a very different circumstance in my mind and again this is why I I don't think it ever will be routinized we were approached by shellfish advisory and the Waterfront groups asking us to break apart one of the items that was in one of the Articles and revisit it they could have just as easily I believe gone and done a Citizens petition I got the 200 you know signatures and called their own special town meeting if they felt that passionate about that issue and in fact when we did go to town meeting and did have the vote it certainly turned out that there was plenty of passion and plenty of support for that particular article so town meeting weighed in you know every time I think appropriately and so we didn't I believe abuse its use um so those those are my initial comments and I'll wait to hear what else everybody else has to say I I I don't believe that the wisdom of this board um would have this mechanism become routinized I do have a question when the language of the of what Dean proposes it says you would only really entertain this during items that rise to the issue of financial exigency or housekeeping purposes and I ask would the last two times the two times we've used these this mechanism would that rise in your estimation in our estimation to an issue of financial iial excy in or on housekeeping purpose and I asked I guess I asked Dean that and okay I'm glad you did um because I I expressly use the word exigency rather than the word emergency because I think exigency is a broader category and includes emergencies and urgencies uh in the case of the um most recent town meeting and I said this to the finance committee there was an honest difference of opinion among this board as to whether that was urgent or not I think three of us felt that it was and two of us felt that it was not so that being the case when it was the wisdom of the select board by majority vote that this should go forward that it was urgent I don't think that this that that flies in the face of the spirit of this the um the senior senator was interesting I suppose no one really talked about urgency I think when we talked about that we talked about the one vote difference and well yeah I don't I don't I suppose it was unstated that there was emergency because of cost you know the increasing costs you know that project had already run up so um I don't see this as discouraging either case that's my own comment on that I can respond to shireen's point or the point that Shireen raised if you want I can wait till others speak let we let everybody Cory do you want to say anything my only two cents on this is reviewing it I mean there's a lot of philosophical elements to this conversation the one thing that's kind of jumping out at me and and why I will most likely support this is the recommendation from our finance committee because they have scrutinized the select board's actions um giving us comments and recommendations of how we should or should not be doing there certain things and um um it was brought to them for a review um they did vote 5-2 in support of it um and I think that did for me it holds some weight so um outside of that um you know we can I don't want to tie our hands on this stuff but I think it's I think this is a reasonable proposal so do um I'm not in favor of this I that probably won't surprise you um um I I want to start because you well not because I mean I want to I I I I'm glad you focused on the finance committee I watched the meeting uh and I completely agree with Committee Member um sprag who was very articulate and and really quite um unequivocal in articulating the notion that it's up to the select board to propose whatever to the uh um to the town meeting the legislative body and it's up to them to vote and it's their right to vote um and and um she felt very strongly that there should not be a limitation on and it's not it it it it may be um characterization by some people that it's uh you know it's a misuse of what is legal but it's procedural it's not it's not a financial policy um and and I I I agree with that but at the end of the day I I I think the question here is making policy how does policy get made subject to the obvious exception that anybody can um make a petition article um submit a petition article it's up to the select board to decide when as and if um a matter is important enough to present to the uh to to the uh town meeting whether it's special or annual and then it's up to town meeting to dispose of that that proposal however it sees fit to do that um I I think that um the the the argument that it that it's becoming routine because it happened twice in a row if that's the issue then we should say you can't do this um if you've done it in the last two or three or four years or whatever and I that that would to my mind be be silly um and and as to the characterization that it somehow feels dirty uh I I I just think it's hard not to conclude that or or at least be tempted to think that some of the argument here is that people who didn't like the outcome um or or who like the outcome of the annual meeting um don't want to H have even though it's appropriate and legal and the select board decides to do it um have that um brought back before the the town meeting because it might produce a result that they don't like and I I think you know that that's not a to me that's not a relevant uh a relevant consideration so for all of those reasons uh I and I I think the question that you've answered Dean I I think you can make the case although I would say one CA I mean if we had a a terrible storm and only 200 people showed up at a meeting and something that we you know was we needed it but basically only 200 people showed up and it missed the the requisite vote and it and it got a very strong vote at the election that might not pass muster under this policy but that to me would be a case where we should very seriously consider whether to call a special Town town meeting um I I I think that um you know the argument for the for the T for the COA was twice 2/3 minus one of town meetings said we want this and moreover uh whatever the number was it was 60 plus percent of the election said we want this that to me was you know a case to to to to to to go back and say are you sure and and as as as Jeff says the answer was yeah they were sure um but that doesn't mean that it was wrong to ask the question again um and so for all of those reasons I uh I think this is U this is not a good not a good thing to do and um I I will vote against it de yeah I just want to respond to a couple of the things that you've said first of all it's not a limitation the select board can call as many special towns meeting Town meetings as they want it's a statement of philosophy and secondly the example that you gave about the uh town meeting attendance being diminished by a storm I think that circumstance Falls within the category of urgency that would allow or encourage the select board members to to uh call a special town meeting um I want to address the sentence that that Shireen called attention to and I'm glad you did um in town council's opinion he says that said he first he gives it's it's sort of um if I can be frivolous it's almost a Henny Youngman approach here his his opinion is oneliner having reviewed this it is certainly legal especially whereas it is just a non-binding policy that said as Council I am always wary of setting a policy that limits even superficially the options of a select board that I represent I take issue with his inclusion of that sentence in his legal opinion that's not a legal opinion that's is that's a gratuitous policy observation he's an outside consultant he is not a department head uh in my previous job I was a department head in my previous job in in as a in-house counsel I was I was a department I think it's inappropriate for outside Council to be offering a policy opinion as part of his legal opinion so it may be it may be may be useful it may be his it's is his opinion but I I find that a bit out of place thank you um thanks I I I think um that Jeff framed up the two scenarios quite well um as to why we went about what we did U with a special time meetings and I don't I don't have any problem with it I thought shellfish advisory uh were asked by you know they took what finance committee said show us bring these back to us on Merit they did as Jeff said they could have gotten a 200 person petition signed it was clearly evident um by uh by the results of of that town meeting um and I do believe there was some some issues of urgency on that um on that with the permitting um that occurred um I I want to keep our options open I don't want to be limiting um in this so I'm not going to support it either uh we have a motion and we have a second um I I guess I I I shouldn't but I I'll just say if the argument is the policy doesn't really change anything and that the cases that we talked about would have come out the same way under the policy then I I to me that means we have appr appropriate and and wise judgment and we should deal with this on a case-by Case basis and not even with a superficial or whatever policy so uh with having said that um I I'll I'll unless somebody has anything else they want to say I'll call for the vote Mr Mets I will vote in favor I'm sorry I will vote in favor in favor yes no um no no I and so the motion fails I I I watched the finance committee too and I watched Joanne she was very articulate she was great she really was she was she was good um okay um moving right along to the next item of non-controversial discussion here um consider amending the P meeting Public Presentation policy Mr matters thank you Mr chair um Joe can say this is my annual request but I think it is is a well-deserved conversation that we need to have I mean we we've all served as chair of this board so we can all reflect on how how it takes to run a meeting the mechanics of it and what have you this is a this is philosophical this is uh about process and and my issues with the way we've operated for the last couple years is um we don't have what I could would refer to as a clear and consistent policy we have meetings um sometimes we say that we're going to address public input during the beginning of the meeting sometimes we're going to make exceptions in item a d f whatever will make an exceptions on the Fly I don't want want to take away the chair's um you know ability to make some alterations I think there should chair should maintain some flexibility and some discretion but I would want I want a program or policy that encourages public input um we have a lot of people that aren't used to attending these meetings they come for the first time and they're nervous and they don't know how to speak when to speak what they should say um so having a clear and consistent policy I think is the you know would benefit the the end results um so basically my my amendments would go back into the you know the public comment on agenda item element or segment of our of our policy is that um I I think we should return back to having public comments during each you know agenda item conversation um dialogue happens questions get brought up new information difference of opinions um sometimes the public isn't crystal clear on what the board's position is on an agenda so they may or may not even want to speak on it until they kind of understand what direction we're going in what motion we may or may not be taken um but it's it's about perception it's about policy it's about process um I think going back to something similar or frankly even the old way of having the you know items commented on conversations during the actual item is a better better result driven um I don't and I and I would want to make very clear I wouldn't maintain an option of having um public comment at the beginning and at the end because then it gets almost too complicated I don't want to have two Snippets of well you want to have a meeting and public comment in the beginning of a meeting and then all of a sudden we go to agenda F and then someone goes oh I forgot to ask this question let's just have a clear clean concise policy um so I I you know I know I'm maybe running uphill here but um I do believe that reflecting on the last couple years we you know we don't have a clear and consistent policy we haven't performed in a clear and consistent policy and I think that um reverting back to the previous um mechanics um would be the benefit of the community so that is my pitch I'm happy to answer any direct questions from the board members um but I I do appreciate you putting this on on an annual basis for me to give another shot at it thank you um Dean thank you Mr chairman um when this policy was amended a few years ago I supported the amendment I think Corey you were a minority of one um um but I've watched what's happened in these in the in the intervening years and if you look at what's happened since we made the change the exception has become the rule in most cases because in most cases involving controversial topics um we've we've we've allowed public comment and I don't think public comment has been a problem um are impacted negatively on the conduct of the select board business the select board's business and I I do agree with the importance of having a consistent policy so I would support reverting back to the original I've changed my position I would support reverting back to the original way we did things here in chadam thank you sh we I take a different tack on this because I think um uh as we have um you know we have the public comments on agenda items but we do make exceptions to the rule when it is something that is controversial um a lot of this is you know um you know we're not we're not disallowing public comment to by any anybody uh who wants to speak on any agenda item uh and and I just feel like I I feel like this is an efficient way to be doing our meetings it's our meeting to conduct and um and it would be my hope that we continue to do it the way we're doing it yes sir yeah know I appreciate Corey's uh um annual perseverance um you do represent I think a certain segment um that would like to be able to weigh in on every single agenda item um I've been at this for 17 years on our school committee in uh 13 years or my 13th year on the board and I do think it's very important that that it's up to the chair to have discretion on how the meeting is run and who's called upon and and the way and and what I I I really like the way we run our meetings now I don't see a lot of variability we've been more inclusionary on controversial more of of agenda items with much public interest we've been very inclusionary some of us more so than others and we let folks speak their mind um and I believe that we get in our formal meetings and in our informal meetings a ton of public input as individual members of the board and also as we sit here and we hear from the public um before and after and during when Sher allows so I'm very much in favor of giving the chair discretion um and I think the chairs have have done a good job no matter who was chair I think the chairs have done a good job allowing input by our public so I'm not looking to change I I I understand um you do bring it up annually I get it um but I'm not going to vote for it thanks M respond to yeah please so yeah so um our previous policy the chair maintained some discretion and I'm not looking to remove that I would not support removing the chair's discretion um as like I mentioned we've all served as chairs is an important tool box that we have to to run a meeting the criticism I have and the input impact input I received is we don't citizens don't know when or how exactly to prepare because there are contentious issues that come before us and how they may prepare for an agenda item in the beginning of the meeting it could be different than during a dialogue when there's information that is provided both from the public to us us back to the public there's a dialogue new information becomes it's a flowing conversation um sometimes people are shooting blind because they're not quite sure where we're going with the topic maybe not have all the information I mean we have the packet but new things get brought up during our dialogue um that may or may not influence how they um provide impact to the board there's also you know a a sense of people getting nervous coming before us and if they they know really where we were heading with the conversation then they feel more comfortable to engage with us and and have a discussion with us when we bring it to the beginning of the meeting and it's basically um you know here's here's what I think you know which and I'll put a side um they don't know how far to go with it their comfort level may not be quite there um and another little mention I want to make is so many times people provide this information at the beginning of the meeting and by the time we get back to the agenda item later on the night half the questions we've not responded to or may not necessarily respond to in full um there's a disconnect in the process so I I I like keeping things together um you know I advocate for this every year I would go back to it um you know the chair um the chair should you know again chair cases discretion yes but I do think the old policy was better product uh provided a better product for the community so so I I'm I'm just going to be real quick here I I you and I have talked I I I don't think that that's the I I appreciate what you're saying I with respect to what you are saying um to me the importance of of input is to get views from the public whatever they may be questions whatever make a contribution but the dialogue the back and forth the how do we come to our own point of view for me is this conversation the five of us the the we are the board members um the the public is the public and they they're they're entitled to to contribute and so forth but I I think there really is a principal difference between a contribution whether it's a question or a position or whatever it is uh on the one side and a participation that gives them um basically a role in the development of a position which I think is not that that's for us exclusively um and I think that um I I'm very comfortable I I realize it's not your notion of consistency but to me it's perfectly consistent to say on big issues controversial issues issues that we know we got a whole bunch of people in the room maybe we don't know what they think but we know they're here to talk about it fine let's make a special case and say that they that that the public participation will be alongside the board in that case or when you can anticipate it we will tell people in the in the packet that it's that it's uh that it's invited but I think that it it just it it invites too much inefficiency an elongation of the meeting if every single um board every single item has to pause or or um you know include uh commentary from the public I I I think it's much more efficient to do it at the outset generally speaking so with that I know you Mr hren had a comment you wanted to make and I see Miss um Gibbs also would like to speak so go ahead yes good evening again John H Sou him yeah I waited around for 2 and a half hours to say this that's fine um I think for me as being one who occasionally does comment on these things you know being a a you know non-resident taxpayer and someone obviously it's one of my opportunities to throw some input in and there to me there's two different types of comments you know there's people that have the prepared caned speech you know which they get up and you're going oh my God they're going to read the whole thing then there's people like me who maybe you know jot you know a couple of notes on a piece of paper and go okay you know here here's what I'm going to say and a lot of times what I've said is something that I didn't know at the beginning of the meeting you know once I hear the presentation sometimes when I hear you guys come up with an idea and I go okay but what about you know or have you thought about this you know and that type of input has sometimes apparently you know helped for you guys to come up with some you know maybe a better solution and that's what's missing now is in some cases you know I can't anticipate what you've come up with as a solution until you know at that point in the meeting and so therefore I think you know having the idea of and obviously I'm not going to speak on every you know there's generally maybe there one thing or two things I given me I might speak on so again this is totally off the cuff you know as you can tell I got no nothing prepared you know but it was just that that back and forth of sort of trying to improve the product that you come up with is what I my goal is you know I've never tried to be you know negative in someone I always try to be positive and say Hey you know you know or in some cases you know maybe just phrasing you know some word or whatever maybe you're like maybe you should use this instead of that you know or whatever but that's been my cont you know way I want to contribute and help get a better product and I can't do that necessarily at the beginning Mee because I don't necessar have all the information so that's sort of my basic concept appreciate it thank you very much Miss Gibbs uh yes elain Gibbs thank you um chadam uh the one place where public participation questions and comments should be encouraged is at the select board meeting it is the only place where it is televised where it be seen on demand for people who can't see it in a timely fashion and where there are minutes this agenda package tonight had 178 Pages it didn't even appear uh in the packet until 5 o'l on Friday night uh there are multiple major issues here there were five topics that affects every single person in this community um it's rare that after uh the public makes comments and asks questions at the beginning of the meeting that that they're even acknowledged or answered uh when it finally comes up on the agenda it's happened to me many times and sometimes hours later um special interests from around the cape and the state come here some are private businesses they're nonprofits and they're permitted to make extensive presentations and the select board interacts with them yet chatam residents and tax fairs don't get that same privilege I think the Cap Cod um light compact today was a classic example of that that went on for 45 minutes there was no way that someone could have read that entire packet and been able to comment on that at the beginning of the meeting you know it turns out it's you know it's only available to certain people certain incomes taxpayers are paying for it it's in our bills there are a boatload of questions we could have asked for that and yet they are given a privileged that we don't get as taxpayers I think this policy is way too complicate complicated it may be legal but I believe it is intentionally discouraging po public participation um as an example tonight um what you should have done was allow Court to make his presentation and then you do what the zba does you defer to the public before you weigh in you guys have already weighed in right now so anything I say to you right now I already know how you're going to vote you've already decided you don't like it so what is the point of people doing this as if you don't allow us to comment before you all go on record and say how you're going to vote the CBA allows a presentation and then they go to the public and they say anybody can speak and then before they start discussing it they they take into consideration the comments from the public and you you talk about wanting input from the public but you're not showing that you are not showing that and if we're willing to put in the time and sit there for three and four hours and read 178 Pages the least you can do is give us the opportunity when it affects all of us to be able to have an opportunity to attempt to influence your decision I think it's wrong you know you have basically said tonight that you really it's not efficient it is not efficient to listen to us but we're hearing that loud and clear and um you can say all you want about having public participation policies and and all kinds of things and how you interact with the public but you're not doing it so I would hope you would uh take these into account um and uh you can't say that you're for outreach and stakeholder involvement and then the one place where it is the most critical and available to the public you are discouraging it so um that's all I have to say but I'm I'm very disappointed in the way this has been handled and I think it was ironic that initially the public policy you didn't change it till the last minute that you allowed us to comment during it I mean I think that speaks volumes thank you very much thank you Mr Buckley yes thank you uh I want to uh Echo I guess what Mr hogen was saying perhaps I might put it another way that could be better appreciated and that is that um I would prefer on a particular subject that I'm interested in hearing what uh staff has prepared I I look at the packet I read what they've presented to you and and then hearing your thoughts because you're all very thoughtful and I I'm a curious person and I'd like to know oh maybe there's some aspect to this that I'm not appreciating and so rather than hold forth before you even speak I'd like to hear what you all have to say and in reaction to staff reports and and it could be that oh they've covered all the points that I was concerned about I don't have to say anything but you don't know that and that's okay but it's better for me to hear what you you all have to say first and how the conversation is Being Framed and what the points of contention are or or you know whatever it is and and and then it could be that after all said and done there may be something that I go oh they haven't talked about this aspect or that aspect and how could they I mean I worked for many years mowing the seaside and Union cemeteries with my father maybe there's something I might possibly know that nobody tonight knew about maintenance of cemeteries or not but I'd like to hear what everybody else said first I'm not going to hold forth on how I put Flags in and out of the holders and so forth and so on and what the best equipment is to buy until I hear what people think first but that's just an example and the other part is a you know public engagement policy I've spent the last 15 years attending conferences about this I mean it was something I was very interested in from my federal career the idea that the public engagement aspect was neglected and was the weak link and the whole thing so anyway I'm glad to hear that finally after all these years before I go into the nursing home it looks like it's finally something might happen uh as far as standardizing methods so that best practices can be shared across the board and so uh all I'm trying to say is that um the I think Florence Seldon when she was chair did the proper thing and maintained uh discretion as far as you know making sure that people move things along and so forth and they weren't long-winded but um you don't have to the format now begs a 5 minute speech in the beginning as opposed to just a followup at the end so it is actually more efficient I believe and effective because you can be efficient and not be effective and if you if the effect is to try to capture as much intelligence and wisdom as possible then I believe it's to let you all go first and for us to go second and then of course you can wrap up with your oh I didn't know that type of remarks and uh make the best decision you can so uh thank you very much thank you anything else um do you want to make a motion I move to amend our policy to return to our old um standards and procedures second all those in favor Mr Castro I um Mr shelle says no Miss Davis uh Mr dykens no and Mr Mets I thank you um and I if I may I will say one thing here I I I think on this subject I I think Jill does a good job in the first instance of anticipating agenda items that are likely to attract the kind of interest that that that makes it Mak sense to have public participation alongside of the um of the board um I try to add to that when we talk preparing the agenda um and then sometimes it develops that that it's clear that that would be appropriate as tonight I did you can argue whether that was appropriate or not but I just want to add anybody on the board who feels that a particular item needs to have uh public input uh at the same time as the as the board is discussing the item is is welcome to twist my arm or pass it on to to Jill and and and those uh those wishes will uh invariably be respected so with that I'll turn to the next item which is um where are we here um uh select board officer rules or on committees boards commissions I think that's you again Corey sure a little little lighter topic here um first of all thank you again for putting this on the agenda um I do appreciate the uh the broadness of the request but I'm going to just kind of cut to the Chase and uh if there's other elements of our roles and responsibilities um you know happy to have that discussion too and I'm going be very very clear but I know there's going to be some perceptions and I've had some conversations this is not a this is not a um comment or or analysis or attack on any individuals this is about process and perception uh checks and balances and what basically what I philosophically believe is a is a better um or actions that we need to consider uh as serving the voters so um my main concern is to having the responsibility of the chair of this body also serve as the chair of the trust and again this is not a Cory and Mike issue this is this is and I I'm going to get to where I'm heading with this um you know when I was the chair of the select board Mike was the chair of the uh trust you know we had um both responsible roles for the our bodies um forgive me who was chair of the trust you were you were sh you're chair of the trust not while you were chair of the board you were serving on the the trust I I I wasn't appointed to the trust as such as distinct from my presence on this board until October of 2023 well I I guess I guess and so just forgive me for interrupting but um as a matter of fact you were the chair of both boards when the select board was the also for all intents and purposes the affordable housing trust board fairness my my point in that is at one point in time we were representing I was more I was representing the select board you had your role on the on the new trust and the newly formed trust and we were working on the RFP process my point is at one point in time we were making decisions that we philosophically disagreed in what wasn't the best in terms of process process and policy should we go into executive how we how we proceed on certain issues and we each had our own kind of role in what was in the best interest of the group that we were helping represent we took different positions if I was the chair of both committees as an example I don't think that is a benefit to the community because there's really no check and balance so I I know we have very strong feelings I don't think we need to go back and forth I need to give some very long speech but I do think moving forward with the perception of of the chair of the select board and chair of the trust being the same individual is going to potentially create more issues down the road and there's only two solutions I can see in having this one is is a very simple policy amongst the board that we amend that and make that make the chair of the select board and eligible to serveice sel chair of another Board of committee ass such the trust um the other way is is a charter change which we could bring the town meeting which I would actually support that area because that would take effect that would not take effect until the next h meeting let the voters weigh in think about how they feel about the process and they decide one way or another and if the charter change passes that's where we move forward if the charter change Falls that we know where the voters feel because there's been a lot of dialogue back and forth that I've you in conversations public um social media posts you know public comment and criticism about the process if they feel strongly enough about it they'll they'll vote in favor of a charter change if they don't feel is that necessary then they won't feel then they won't and they've had their their sense of weighing in um they've they've you know weighed in on a very significant element of our procedural government and um you know the results will be what the results will be so I'm not going to make some long speech about it um you know the the agenda item says consider select board roles and Rec committee board commissions responsibility anything else you guys want to bring up for dialogue happy to do that but that is the main point of my my agenda request tonight okay uh Shireen Cory I have a question for you okay absolutely so you are bringing up just the affordable housing trust committee we have op I do I mean what opab we don't really have officers we've we've never really operated on formal officer scenario but it's always been assumed that the chair of the by Charter and it's always been assumed that the chair of the select board is the chair of the OPB trust I mean it leads it it hasn't always LED it no when has there been an OP I mean I I don't know the history of of who chaired that or who didn't my point being and my other point being um I think Mike brought it up too is before the affordable housing trust moved into um this new trust the chair was chair the chair was the chair of the affordable housing trust so I'm I'm thinking this is coming down not to to the actions of the it's not coming down to the position I think it's coming down to some issues that people just didn't like happening like I think that this is about um something different I mean if it's just about the affordable housing trust and it's coming down to to some of the decisions that the affordable housing trust has made about about some of the projects going forward I'm thinking that's what that's what I'm feeling here Corey because I hear from people um who like what work is being done by the affordable housing trust they like the makeup of the trust they like that it's a separate entity and I don't and they don't have problems with it I can't um I don't I don't have somebody in my ear constantly um like berating me or telling me that they don't like the affordable housing trust and what the work that has been done in the role of the chair and the vice chair and and what positions I'm I'm just I'm just deeply concerned that this is more uh a specific and not a policy and I appreciate I really do it's for me it's more about checks and balances like I would not want to be the chair I personally would not want to be the chair of the two existing bodies I don't think that would be fair I think that there's potential conflict um in the position at times depending on the topic um so that's I'm just looking for having this dialogue because we've had I think we I think we can recognize there's been enough criticism or comments made about it so we just have a dialogue about it I am not looking for an action right now and that's why I'm suggesting a charter change because it would affect the future about how we move forward and it may or may not even pass I'm just throwing it up for the voters to kind of weigh in on this the other piece to uh I mean I think it's happen stance I mean I maybe it's not happen stance I think I think having you know having appointed being appointed to the affordable housing trust by this committee as a select board member um and and Mike as well I just feel that um we've been entrusted but there's also a Communications thing that goes on I think having the chair be and this might not always be the case for this this board it could be somebody else defin could but in this instance this is the first time out with this new trust I think it was by default that we wanted to see somebody that had the leason and the relationship with this board be that person otherwise Mike would not have been nominated and then voted by the trust itself and I I'm just I mean I just want to make that point that there are some good there are some good to having one of us be representing in the leadership role for that committee and that is about Communications uh connectivity with us Town manager connectivity with this board that I think moves things more positive than what I'm hearing from you I I just think it's it's curious I'll say that that we Liv with it before but now we can't live with it um so I just scratched my head a little bit I think it's more about the results of the work rather than the process Andor the positions um and I do think there's some Synergy to be honest with you if you have the right person um leading both I think you you might get more results and get on a road to um success with greater alacrity than if you had others in those positions I think communication is improved and I think efficiency is approved and stupid as this sounds if it ain't broke don't fix it I I I'm I'm I'm pleased with the results of the affordable housing trust as you all well know and I do think we it takes such a long time to get stuff done as we all know I think having um the chair of both right now is an advantage to be honest with you um so I don't see any issue with it especially we lived with the before and no one said boo um we weren't doing anything so you know and now that we're doing stuff and some people don't like the outcomes or the results then it's an issue um in my years on the on the select board the chair of the select board's always been a member of the opep and I think frankly it's run by the treasurer but I think the agenda was probably set by the treasurer but I think that either the finance committee or the other the member of the select board the chair of the select board runs the meeting there's always been another member of the select board that's appointed that's never been an issue I don't have an issue with that either if if the chairman of the opep was also chairman of the of the select board there's there's no issue there it's it's good it's a good thing it's efficient and get stuff done so I I I I you know I this is this is curious I started with that I'll end with that thanks yeah I want to address two points that were made and then I want to speak more broadly first with respect to what was in place before as the affordable housing trust it was a enally the select board with two other people so it made sense to me that the chair of the select board would be the presiding individual because five of the people on that seven person board were select board members we don't have that now with respect to OPB um Kathy at my request provided the Declaration of trust I don't know if we have the town meeting vote in here is it may not be back um is it we just got this but anyway the the um is there is there a town meeting vote the town me meeting vote simply refers is a vote to create the opep trust um doesn't specify you're talking about the opep trust the op opep trust yeah so the opep trust and I I might have seen this in the past the TR Declaration of trust which we have an unsigned version of apparently signed one doesn't exist says that the board of Selectmen shall call for the first meeting of the trustees and the current chairman of the board of Selectmen trustees Shall Serve as the initial chairperson of the trustees to facilitate the organization of the trustees um I think Jeff is correct in my service on the opep trust and I'm a trustee now as you are um it's been the town Treasurer that's prepared that agenda and the meetings really were never really conducted with we never organized elected officers um it's it it's been very informal as as to whether there was even a presiding officer the town manager as present without a vote um and I don't know what to say beyond that um maybe the trust should be maybe the opep trust should be electing officers I want to say something more broadly about this and I I'm more supportive of um strike the word more I'm supportive of qu where Corey's going with this and I differ with my other three colleagues um I haven't said anything yet well I'm anticipating you can correct me if I'm wrong um if there were to be a a change I I would support something only if it were prospective only and would not apply to the current um uh year um I don't mean calendar year but current select board year I I and I would be I would go more broadly and not limit it to the affordable housing trust I I think the affordable housing trust is the area where it where I see an issue as being more pronounced but historically we've had multiple boards in we've had a number of boards and committees in my time like the ELD garage committee or chadam 365 where we have had select board members present um but the officers of those committees uh or task forces were not select board members um I wouldn't limit it to to just the affordable housing trust if there were to be a limitation or a Prohibition I would apply to all boards and committees and I don't think any officer of the board of of the select board should be an officer of any of these other committees um I think in the case of the affordable housing trust and and I guess you could argue the same thing with the opep trust there when you serve as a trustee you have a fiduciary obligation to that body and I think that holding that position when you're an officer of the select board as well presents a potentially compromising position in terms of the independence of judgment that I think should govern voting I don't not suggesting in any way shape or form that there's a violation of the conflict of interest rules or the conflict of interest CU I don't think there is I just think it presents um the potential for clouding the independence of judgment and I don't think it adds anything other than bad Optics um I have felt at times that the select board under the current model with respect to the affordable housing trust is almost functioned as a subsidiary of the trust and that bothers me that's an impression and feeling that I have hasn't always been the case but I certainly felt that in the case of these these two most recent uh properties that we you know signed the ldas for recently um I guess those are my my broader comments I suspect we're not going to be doing anything to change the current system um but I do have concerns and those and those are what I have laid out thank you so um I I want first of all I I I want to stay away although I I have to admit in cander I I share um some of the thoughts that Jeff suggested that it's curious um I'm going to leave that to one side I'm going to address this um just as I would analyze it um from afar uh number one um I I think and and and I I've represented a lot of boards and that admittedly that was governed by uh the corporate law but the fiduciary obligation of a board member is to the beneficiaries or the um the constituents of the body that is acting and and I I can't tell you I can find that in Massachusetts law with respect to select boards but what I can tell you is that certainly is the case with a with with with a with a corporate board and from my perspective and the way I conduct myself here and the way I would hope that we all do because I we we may talk about it in different terms but basically we're here to do the best job we can and to make the best decisions that we can and to be um to to make the the the the best living conditions that we can fashion for the town of chadam whom we represent that's our fiduciary duty and that's our fiduciary duty as select board members and that's the fiduciary duty of the affordable housing trust board members and and frankly I think every Committee in this town they may have a specific jurisdictional Focus but whatever the focus their job is to make the best decisions they can and achieve the best outcomes they can for the benefit of the citizens of this town um and and so that's that's that to me is number one and I will confess to a certain impatience with the idea the suggestion of a conflict there is no conflict you're just working in different territory with respect to different issues different problems whatever but your job is always to get the best result for the citizens of this town whatever your whatever the particular role is um secondly I qu I don't I don't know I hadn't really thought about a charter Amendment it's interesting I I didn't do an exhaustive search because I didn't you know really get a chance to start looking at this um all that early myself but I did make an effort to find where is it in either Massachusetts law or chadam law uh that the rules are prescribed for um electing the officers of a board I couldn't find it I I I there isn't anything to my knowledge the indeed and I'm going to come back to that in a minute but the only place where the charter says anything about who can or can't do anything with respect to being a board member or overlapping one board to another is the provision that says the members of the finance committee cannot be on any other board in town they cannot be Town officials in any other respect to me that's what we call in the law forgive me that's a negative pregnant what does that mean it means that people thought about do you want to prevent somebody from doing something else by reason of their status as a board member and the answer is they didn't do that except for that one case um if you amend the charter obviously that would control although I'm going to come back to fiduciary duty there's another principle and that is that there should not be any restriction legal restriction on the ability of a board member to make the best judgment that they can um and so something that says you can only vote for these four people but not these three who otherwise are eligible I would question whether that's legal under Massachusetts law I don't know it may well be but I I I certainly think that that's a question that would have to be answered before you went forward with that I I'm going to stop there except to say one other thing um we have we know we we have we have a lot of big issues that we have to address I mean you know the schools are getting you know the population of the schools is going down we we have to finance the sewer development over a long period of time we got grinder pumps to talk about we got housing problems we can't hire people I we we have big big problems and I frankly admit to a certain impatience whether I'm on this board or I'm just another citizen in chadam impatience that what are we talking about we're talking about who can be elected chair of this that or the other board I I'll be honest with you I it it I know some people think it's a lot of power it's not it's a lot of work it it it is you really really have to work you have to talk to people you have to listen to people you have to try to Fashion consensus you got to be thinking about it all the time it is a lot of work and that's all it is it is not something and and for God's sake it is not you know it doesn't make you into I mean I don't if anybody knew I doubt they do but you don't get seated at this table or that table in a restaurant or anything else it is a lot of work and and I I personally think we ought to be paying attention to the big issues and not be worrying about you know the whe whether so and so by the way you Shireen and I were nominated to the to the affordable housing trust I I particularly in the incipient stages it had to be one of us I mean it really should be one of us as that trust is getting its sea leg and shireen's a clerk so I mean you now you may say well I'm only talking about the chair you know it that would have been if if if the rule were in place basically you would have said oh it can't be Mike because he's the chair of the select board although at that time I was not um it's got to be Shireen who I don't know if she was or she but the point is that's a hard decision for that committee to make without having to take that into consideration and I I just think we're we're hobbling ourselves to no salutary purpose and and I think we should be addressing the big issues so with that I will stop talking I can read a room I'm not going to push this any further I am in agreement that we need to focus on the big picture items no no disagreement there things move at a snail's pace in municipal government we all have have our issues with with the process no AR but um I do think this was important to have this conversation we've had a lot of you I get a earful about process and P perception it it needs to happen it has happened I can read a room I'm not going to push this any further if I mean let's be frank about it if someone really has a issue with this there's a mechanism for citizen to move for with something so absolutely I'm not going to call for a vote Cory I you know I will you know I can't say that I saw this on the agenda as as something I was looking forward to discussing but at the same time you did put it on the table and we've had the discussion I would hope that we can kind of move on and and and if people want to make something of it that's their privilege uh and their right um but I I I I will say having had the discussion I appreciate that you did and uh let's move on fair enough no I and again and be crystal clear I know people going to make their own opinions about it this is not a personal scenario about one individual of another it's about the bigger picture policy from my perspective but we've had the discussion I appreciate the board's input I spoke in my piece okay thank you next case um the this is the um committees boards and Commissioners annual review um so we have a couple of sub submissions the options afforded uh us for this were to go through all this stuff um tonight um or to look for a um well there were three uh two was schedule a work session and review as we did the last time and then the third was direct staff to bring two to three committees in front of us I'm going to preempt here not to to the exclusion of anybody else but I'm going to say I I thought that work session last year was a good thing I I would hope that we could do it that way again this year but I will defer to the group um Shireen uh I I'd like to do that again or try to do that again um there are one two three four five select board agenda items relating to committees that are pending that we could take up at that meeting and talk about what direction we want to take them in whether we want to um you know if they could be included in the workshop that I think that would be helpful and any other suggestions that any um anybody has but I think it would be better if we had a working session and brought forth some of the different um issues that the town I mean we've been looking to make changes on at that time okay it's also nine o'clock cour um the quick question would the working session be on a regular meeting night I mean which I'd be fine with I don't think we need to do a deep multi-hour dive into this I think there's some specific topics I mean I mean I my three notes for me was just really an update on the EDC update on Aunt L's Cove and then I mean I we have the cultural Council um we have a request that has come in about a red reduction of membership um that they they've formally submitted so that I mean that could be a standalone agenda item anyway but it would kind of fit into the conversation um and then another question that they brought up was the Recruitment and whether non-residents could or could not serve on the cultural Council that question hasn't been forly presented to us it's been part of their minutes and dialogue but that may need some further research about eligibility and other stuff so there's some other pieces but I don't think we need a multi-hour long you know Standalone meeting I think we could probably tackle this the only question I have the last time we did it we actually had some people come in and talk to us at the time at when we did that and that I I don't think that works terribly well with the the the regular so you're going are off like like a Thursday night for an hour and a half as much as I hate to be scheduling more meetings yes I I I think that's unfortunately what we're looking at Dean well I'm not particularly enamored of having a a separate working session on this I wasn't particularly impressed with the last working session I'm not sure how much it accomplished um be honest with you uh We've this is this is on the agenda because it's in the charter and it was selectman Taylor who asked the board to honor its responsibility under the charter to review committees once a year and we put that in place and for the last eight or nine years we did that in the context of a regular board meeting last year was the first time we had to have a special 2hour session uh which had some controversy if you remember um we accomplished perhaps some finite things with respect to some particular committees no committees were eliminated and maybe others feel we have plenty of committees and we should have more committees I I'm not in that camp uh so I think there were a finite number of issues as Cory has articulated and maybe Shireen has um we should take those up at a regular board meeting and if committee chairs want to participate fine but we now have the process in place we've renewed having committee chairs come and present to us at live board meetings we will have done every single committee by the Year's End and to have a working session for a couple of hours I I just I don't favor it I'm probably going to be outvoted on it but it is what it is I I I thought we beat the topic to death last year those are my thoughts thank you so regulatory we're going to do nothing with that there's seven regulatory uh charge by Statute that we're going to do we're not going to change it we're not going to Nuke them we can't we're not okay non-regulatory charge by Statute what are we going to do with those we're not going to disband any of them we're not going to we're going to reorganize are we going to do we have ideas about each one that we want to we want to change or I mean you know so then leads me to think about well what are the other advisory committees that we don't add that add value or don't add value and is there depth of issue with respect to any of them that we need a deeper dive on whether we do it in public or private you know public or an off offsite meeting matters not to me Thursdays are best for me but I'm not as Dean noted I'm not looking to have another meeting we we do spend a ton of time but there are issues I think with the other advisory because the other ones are off the table as far as I'm concerned unless other people have issues with them so I I I would I would work down the other advisory committees here and see if whether or not there's there anything we want to tweak and be honest with you it's really pretty much nothing that I would honest with I don't know but if you have issues then let's go let's I'm I'm just gonna if you don't mind no please I'm just going to bring up some of the things that you know are have been just laying here for the last year since probably our our last meeting Aunt Lydia's Cove committee review mission in charge Cory you brought that up uh determine oversight of the Trap do operation and i' uh with Aunt Lydia's Cove committee or another committee I'd like to include 90 Bridge Street in that and probably The Landings establish a town landing parking committee do we want to do that um review open space committee's charge and discussion of directives well yes I mean that's an important thing a task Economic Development Committee with specific Works those are important things that we have listed for you know a year anyway that we need to address so whether it's in a workshop if that's something that everybody doesn't want to do but it's going to take some time to talk about it and if we could dedicate the time to talk about it I'd feel more comfortable than because otherwise we' be rushing through it yeah and and I'm going to endorse that comment I for and and there's a further thought in my mind in addition to what Shireen just said and that is this we know there are committees that need something they they and and she's identified a couple of those items but we know that um and they're not that isn't going to get fixed unless we attend to it look at it figure it out a little bit and try to maybe bring the people in front of us but make a a an effort um and and do it in again in my opinion in a dedicated time frame where you have an opportunity to prepare for it properly um and maybe it won't be entirely successful but um I I I do think on a regular basis you need to be be be doing that if only to tell the town and the Committees that we are from time to time focused on what they're doing yeah can I just say one thing about telling things to committees it's about time that we got committee members to comply with the with the um conflict of interest law by filing their ethics statements uh we used to get um a summary from the town from um the town clerk but now because the state took that over she still has that I suspect there are many members quarterly I'm given a report from the town clerk's office we've worked it out that when they pull it for their records they're sharing that information with me I'm going through and looking to see we did have an increase I don't have the exact percentage in front of me at the moment but we did see um an increase in the amount of um ethics trainings completed since we had the discussion last year there's still that issue of when the state requires you to list what organization you're taking the ethics training for for like example for myself I'm under Mash p i don't show on Chatham's list so when the town clerk is pulling the list they're pulling a list of chadam people who identify chadam as the organization they're taking the ethics training for but there is a way to provide like I've given my certification that I did for myself to town clerk so it's it's on file and other committee members who've had that have given me today I received one a print out of that certification so people are hearing that and coming I'm happy to hear there's increased compliance but I think it's something we we have to continue to hammer away yeah does anybody have any interest in the third alternative about asking state have to bring two or three committees from time to time so we take that off the table so it's really a question of of um whether we try I mean I think focused yes and then the question is whether we do it as part of our meetings or we do it as a separate meeting is that fair it's definitely fair what's most efficient what can we get the most done offsite you know uh outside our regul and and who sets the agenda is the agenda what Shireen just articulated or are there additions deletions or you know these are issue Focus involve committees and commissions but they're issue focused cor no I mean to just initial point about you know regulatory committees are off the table you know we've kind of limited our our menu of of of um committees that we're going to discuss um I mean like I say I mean from from my perspective everything that's kind of been queued up here is is you know it's it's it's a good discussion not going to be hours long and it's going to be simple things you just status for the EDC that's a you know it's a it's a conversation that we've had going for quite some time you know for me the aun lady's Cove we have Jason Holmes our Harbor Master who's leading these meetings because we haven't reorganized like I want to get to the point where we fill the seats hopefully or at least get them reorganized have a chair and let them figure out are they meeting as needed quarterly monthly you know whatever and what are they working on um and then again the cultural counil thing I mean getting some clarification on Resident non-resident that may need that may need Town action item we don't know I don't know and as far as the reduction in membership from that could be a standalone item aside from all this that we don't that doesn't even have to be part of the process right now I mean we've we've upped the membership down reduced the membership reduced it again brought it up again I mean so that that can be done on its own Merit so I mean I establish a town Landing parking committee I mean whether it's parking or not but it's certainly part of it but paying attention to the town Landings that's part of the discussion I'm I'm I'm very interested neighbor but neighbor these are all these are all intertwined intertwined get it I also um I think you know messaging back to the boards that I mean I think a lot of I know we're getting into some discussion here and I don't want to but um you know getting into discussing how do we articulate to some of these boards they don't necessarily have to be meeting every week month you know if you don't have stuff on the table don't try to make stuff up you know just you know just to move it forward so just have clearcut you know your mission is your mission and and work the mission statement so do we have a consensus that we ask uh Jill to find a time that we can and we'll try to hold it to 90 minutes it's going to happen so I will participate I should I should think that if individual board members have issues for sure let's get them on the agenda submit them to Kathy and Joe yep yep there days okay okay okay all right anything else am I I think we're done aren't we motion to adjourn Mr chairman second um all those any further discussion all those in favor Mr Mets I Mr Dyk Miss Davis Mr Shell says I and Mr necastro hi thank you y long meeting [Music] [Music] good for