##VIDEO ID:L3009suWyBI## e afternoon welcome to the November 12th 12 2024 meeting of the chadam select board please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and OnDemand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chair seeing no such notification I'll proceed pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General Law chapter 30A section 20 until March 31 2025 this meeting of the chadam select board is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 58945 4410 conference ID 203 386 491 pound sign or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simoc cast on chadam TV Xfinity channel 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide realtime access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as as soon as possible uh first order businesses establishing Quorum Mr Mets pres Mr Dyk Ms Davis Mr Shell is present Mr necastro present we have a quorum um this evening we have um minutes to approve we have public announcements and agenda requests uh we have our um uh weekly report on U chadam Wells posos and drinking water testing and pumping update from the uh DPW uh next we have public comments on a business agenda notably um we will be accepting P public comment alongside the town alongside the board on item a which is grinder pump policy discussion uh next is considering a waiver of the municipal building fees for monoy Community Services uh next is uh discussion of encroachments on town property policy uh proposed revisions and uh draft licenses to be discussed uh next are um special one-day alcohol licenses um for the Cape Cod commercial Fisherman's Alliance uh and um three cases for the chadam Holiday Stroll on December 13 um next is requests for extensions of seasonal liquor license es um and finally we have appointments to consider for the Board of Health and the chadam Harwich water wa uh Wastewater intermunicipal agreement Advisory board so with that I will entertain a motion on the October 29 2024 minutes motion to approve second uh any changes uh Dean just one Mr chairman on page 17 I would suggest uh that we change the in the third sentence we changed the word we replac the word dump with transfer station I think that terminology is a bit pay um I think we can accept that one um all those in favor uh Mr nicastro hi Mr Shell says I Miss Davis Hi and Mr dykens Mr Mets hi then it's approved um next public announcements and agenda requests uh let me start um with the board anything from the board um Shana do you have something for us yes good evening shaa newly licensing agent this is just a reminder to our business owners particularly those downtown that in accordance with amendments to the town's local alcoholic beverag and Licensing regulations tomorrow is the deadline to apply for a special one day for the Christmas stroll on December 13th um this has been noticed in the chamber's newsletter since early October but I just wanted to throw it out there in case anyone is thinking about it and hasn't pulled the trigger yet thank you appreciate that thank you very much sha um any other public announcements Andor agenda requests in the room here this evening anybody online oh I'm sorry Miss Gibbs uh thank you Elaine Gibbs I have an agenda item request uh before we move any further forward with the budget process I'm again requesting and I believe it was requested by uh selectman Castro an agenda item providing the projected cost to complete phase one of the sewer and the drinking water cost for repair and upgrading of all 11 Wells to be at full pumping capacity if required uh increased storage capacity uh iron and magines treatment and paa filter ation and new wells and how long it will take for completion of each they are the two largest budget items to face chadam and will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars we were told that these financials would be available by this month and then for Budget planning the select board should also ask staff in my view to provide a list and potential impact of any federal funding grants and subsidies anticipated over the next three to four years on all line items as a result of the national election to include the infrastructure and jobs act EVS climate and those kinds of issues where we expect to have some kind of federal funding thank you thank you Miss Gibbs anything else from online I don't see anything okay um Mr failey can you give us a report on Wells posos Etc thank you Mr chair good evening Rob failey director of Public Works yeah so this is the October update um status of our wells training field Wells 5 and8 the temporary treatment of well 5 is offline it's drained for the winter the contractor for the permanent facility has taken possession and uh they'll use that in the new treatment plant um for the permanent uh fac facility I've got some nice pictures here for you uh the second foundation concrete pore took place the foundation was leak tested and passed the waterproofing and back filling is continuing that's pretty much shown in the upper picture uh the lower picture is concrete formwork for the first floor slab is being formed um expected poor date around the middle of the month for the wells 10 and 11 well 11 similar to last month is online and contributing to the needs of chadam uh the conservation easement for well 10 is finally under review we haven't received any comments yet for it but it's at least it's out of the queue and under review so we're making progress for the month of October uh Wells were uh pumps were running 8 to 12 hours a day and we did not hit the low level alarm this month which is good news um water sampling bacterias were taken for the month of October all uh samples were free of bacteria all paa samples were uh for treated water were non-detect and um yeah other sampling as needed uh station maintenance uh is up ongoing with housekeeping um the fence was repaired at the 1.25 million gallon storage tank uh we had reports of um youth getting into that facility and climbing the water tanks so we felt it was necessary to reinforce the uh the fence there before anybody else got into any Misfit behavior um my hair Services redeveloped well six with pantonight we're just waiting for the sample results you'll see later in the report why some of the numbers why well six hasn't been contributing uh to chadam needs lately because we're just waiting for the testing results to come back and just uh systems maintenance is ongoing so here we are with the pumping comparison October 23 versus 24 um very similar uh um 2 and a half million gallons more than last October I attribute that to the milder weather it's been nicer people are probably staying longer visiting um about 7% 7.7% higher than last October no real anomalies that I could see I know last month we had a 100% uh day in there I don't see anything that egregious in this report and here's just the level of effort um it's a good representation of the higher usage early in the month versus where it starts tailing off towards the tail end of the month it's about a$ 500,000 500,000 gallon per day difference between the beginning of the month and the end of the month and then the bottom is just a a bar graph to show the same it's a little hard to see here I apologize for that it's even hard for me to see my report but you can see uh I know you have paper copies in front of you which may help um so well five is offline as as we discussed for the for the contractor well six has been offline for redevelopment and then um well well six is tied with well seven and N at that treatment plant um the main reason those are those other two Wells are off along with well six is because there's a chlorine analyzer part that we are waiting for it's on back order we should be getting that uh in the next two weeks and we'll have those back online and then the Bottom bar chart is just showing the level of effort um with those Wells and the year-to date pumping uh we are still less than last year uh last year's pumping was 440 million gallons to date um we've pumped 434 million gallons which about 5.8 million gallons less we are closing the Gap it seems like we were much lower earlier in the year and we're kind of gradually gaining on it so um I think it's just attributed to the nice weather and then the bar chart on the bottom is the same thing and there's the level of our uh of our observation Wells I mean uh just last week Mass D announced that all of Massachusetts with the exception of the cape and islands is in a level two or three drought cape and the islands are still at a level zero um this this observation well it's you know we typically would see the ground water starting to recharge at this point with the exception of last year which it was around the the beginning of the year um but usually we start to see that recharge and we get some of those uh fall hurricanes and the tail endis tropical storms and things like that we got some heavier rainfall events other than that blip about a month ago we're still on a seasonal decline so we we really do need the water um I think it's it's pretty obvious to everybody with the wildfires going around um there may be a point in time where mass does uh declare a drought level for Cape in the islands and we'll just have to play that by here and then the five-year pumping report um pumpage is higher than in the past four years again I think it's due to the nice dry weather um pumpage hours are high just Bas basically because we have a few Wells down for maintenance and and Rehabilitation so um but everything seems like it's uh it's going in line thank you thank you any questions yeah go ahead je Rob just one quick question on 10 when we get the conservation easement approved we're good to go it's been tested we're going what we going to bring it right online uh we may have to test it because it's been a while since we we tested it initially we may have to bring it uh for One More Sample but um usually we get the results within about a week or two okay thanks you're welcome any uh anybody else thank you sir okay thank you good uh okay next case uh public comments on the business agenda with a respect uh to all items except the grinder pump policy anybody here in the the room anybody online M Gibbs uh yes thank you Mr chair this is regarding uh one of the last items it's the appointment for the chadam Harwich Wastewater intermunicipal agreement board um nowhere is the chadam Harwich Wastewater IMA Advisory Board listed on the town website as a board or any indication when they've met decisions are made by the board that directly impact all chatam residents for 6.75 million in4 installments to be paid within seven years which is this year 2024 for the final we've allocated 23% of Chatham's treatment capacity which is 300,000 gallons a day for the treatment of East Harwood sewer to be discharged into cocko Cove it resulted in redirecting infrastructure work to Meetinghouse Road to sewer East harwitch as a result while East Harwich is now sewered as a consequence many homes in more densely populated in chadam have not been during that agenda item I would ask the following be addressed how many of the four payments have we actually received since they are were due this year and when do we expect the remainder if they're not and I guess I'd ask on what basis were David woodcome for reappointment and Bruce bdar is chosen uh the select board is being asked to vote approval but to my knowledge you have not uh interviewed them uh and so I would wonder how they were chosen and were these openings posted for the general public to apply were these quarterly meetings recorded and televised are minutes of the quarterly meetings available and where to find them and are the meetings open to the public if they aren't I think they should be for transparency as any other Advisory Board uh particularly considering how important this is to the entire town of chadam thank you thank you um okay anything else from online I don't see anybody else um moving to the business agenda the first item is the grinder pump policy discussion um and we've set it up so that the water and sewer advisory committee can present its recommendation uh policy recommendations first and I believe Mr Colby is here to do that welcome Mr Colby yes thank you very much uh Jeff Colby chairman of the water and sewer advisory committee uh we were here earlier this year just a little bit of background uh to talk with you about this you asked uh our committee to take a another look at this so we did extensive research and talking with Town staff uh staff from other communities uh ghd the Wastewater the town's Wastewater consultant uh we reviewed uh policies and uh got input from previous staff specifically Dr duncanson we had him come to one of our meetings to provide some background for us uh this is a complex topic uh and so we thought that the best way to break down our recommendation for you was in these four categories acquisition provision installation and repair uh just kind of gives a framework for kind of that that future uh recommendation and if uh uh the board sees fit in the future to to tweak these at least you have these categories in which to to fit any uh future modifications in and uh some of these will require uh cost others might not it might just be policy uh components so I'll go right down uh our recommendation it's in your packet uh we have the first one being acquisition uh this one is where the town would uh use their negotiating power to get a beneficial price for pumps uh could be done through a uh request for quotes process or just a uh negotiation through our uh discussions with staff we realize that there's a significant savings that can be passed on to homeowners by uh implementing that it was a component of our uh previous recommendation to you earlier this year as well we did look at the different components with regards to the pumps and are recommending that there be an extended warranty of at least five years as part of that uh standardization of pumps and standardization of pumps I think is is very important within the the chatam system as well uh another component that we heard about that is important is an insulated cover to prevent the units from freezing as well as the ability to hook up a generator for the purposes of pumping down the pump if a home does not have a generator having the uh equipment uh to provide for temporary generator connection is very important uh the other component with regard to this acquisition is this would our recommendation would be for this would apply for anyone that needs a pump not just on a low pressure system but we heard a lot about Equity when we were doing our uh research and talking with uh a lot of affected property owners and others who have uh worked through different policies in their communities and if it's available to not only people with on a low pressure but also on a a lot that might be on gravity but because of terrain needs to have a pump again it would provide for a very standard type of pump with regards to you know what is components that are within the chatam uh Wastewater system so it would be uh a negotiated price that would again benefit both types of um homeowners uh the next component is um the provision of that there was a lot of discussion about what that could look like but essentially this would be providing that grinder pump at no cost to the homeowner and this would be as a result of the town's decision to install low pressure sewer within that roadway so essentially the homeowner would have uh no choice but to connect and have to use a grinder pump so our recommendation would be to provide that at no cost to uh the property owner uh in our reasoning for this it would help to offset the higher cost we uh there is a townwide survey I don't know how recently it's been updated but uh at least dating back a few years there is a survey of cost for connecting to the system Gravity versus low pressure and based upon those results and in talking with many others there's at least the cost of the pump that's an additional cost for homeowners connecting to the sewer and so this providing the pump would help to offset that higher cost and just to kind of reiterate the point I made before uh the negotiated pump would uh price would just be available to those homeowners that are on gravity not low pressure but we just wanted to emphasize that as part of our recommendation uh in order to to again provide Equity uh the third component is the installation a lot of discussion has uh was around this particular component uh we as a committee uh felt strongly that it was important to have a list of qualified licensed utility installers we did talk about whether that installer should be certified to install e1s or or a particular technology uh but ultimately decided that the best way to uh recommend that is that there be a qualified list of utility installers and that we standardize those low pressure uh grinder pumps around that E1 pump system it seems like many of the components within the chatam uh Wastewater system have been kind of designed around that but not all of the pumps within the system are E1 and so it would make sense for there to be a standard approach to pumps within the system uh the next component of next category if you will is repair of the grinder pumps and and there are you know manyu uh communities that do this in in various ways some communities do it with Town staff uh some don't participate in in any way with regards to uh repair uh in others uh they have it uh that service contracted out so our recommendation uh to you is to negotiate a price with an outside service provider so that there would be a beneficial price for all uh to participate in and that includes service prices service requirements and also very specific service provider expectations again this would make it very simple and consistent for home owners to call a repair service there would be a uh acquired uh service in which they uh could then uh reach out and contact and there are uh vendors out there that are interested in providing that that service particularly for uh the E1 pump and then also it would provide uh professional and consistent repair capabilities again sometimes homeowners don't know exactly who to call or or where to call and again this would provide a a vetted um vendor if you will again our our committee entertained a lot of very diverse input on this subject you'll probably hear some of that tonight with the public comment and uh but what I can say is and very happily say that this was a unanimous recommendation of our committee after very careful deliberation of uh all the components uh we'd be happy to consider uh additional um items that the select board would want want further investigation I will say that when it came to the installation and repair categories that I just covered uh those can get very complicated uh with regards to um you know what responsibilities uh the community wants to take on I know that there's a again as I mentioned before a number of communities that approach this different ways uh there's some very creative approaches um for instance the U Town of mashby is looking at uh being responsible for all of the pum within their system but they're having them wired into their SCA or control system and also uh providing the power to those as well so it's almost like a mini Network that they're setting up again that's the first I've heard of a community looking at it from that perspective again there's just almost an infinite number of combinations of way you could approach this uh but our recommendation uh which you have before you in these four categories I think was a good way of bringing again those very diverse um approaches to this together with a recommendation that again was unanimously supported by our committee I will say there's a couple members of our committee here tonight uh that are very interested in this topic and I do want to specifically identify Bruce bardis who's not here tonight because of some health issues but he spent a huge amount of time researching this contacting dozens of communities and outlining what they're doing and how they do it so it could potentially Implement some of those components within the chatam system uh with that said I'm happy to answer any questions you might have so thank you very much for that um I'm I'm going to open it up to questions uh first I'm going to ask you if you would stay as I'm sure you will um through the the presentation from the sraak committee uh recommendations as well um in terms of questions here at this point if if we can try to maybe just focus it on what you've presented uh um things that need clarification to understand the proposal as opposed to as you said you expect comments from the public Etc I I maybe we can get both presentations out before we get into any questions or comments that um are more policy arguments as opposed to clarification so with that um probably confusing suggestion let me open it up first to the board Corey sure thank you Mr chair uh Jeff thank you very much I know there's a lot of Dynamics to this conversation so at the moment I only have three three specific questions pretty straightforward and I'm going to focus on the presentation you just gave um first on the acquisition references a standard E1 grinder pump is there what is the scenarios or are there any scenarios that that that device would not be you would need more than that device is there is there scenarios out there that the standard E1 is not going to be sufficient and we'd have to go to something different or alternative assuming a higher cost are there many scenarios out there for the proper in chatam and if so what is the thought process with how you tackle that I'm not aware of any scenarios where they would require something um additional to this this is a our system within chadam was designed kind of around this much of the uh pipe Network within the roads was uh designed by E1 to work with their pumps uh not that other pumps won't work within that system but certainly if we standardize the pumps the system as a whole will work better all right perfect uh second question is about the uh the pigtailing for the um generator system um I didn't follow all the conversations so is that set up for is it for just the property owner or whatever scenario to add the generator at their own cost is there any has there ever been any conversation that if there was an emergency a lengthy um period of time that we lost power in the town for a lengthy period of town this is more of a policy probably conversation that would kick in that the town would have access to access properties as you know certain health risk because my understanding is these things go down poers out for a long time that's not a great thing for the system so would um is there ability or a policy this conversation that has ever occurred about the town coming in on a temporary basis running the systems on Via generator in a in a scenario of a very long period of time a you know big snowstorm that Rel power for extended amount of time we did have discussion about that and that's the purpose for having that uh temporary generator connection uh another reason for having kind of a guide like this if you will is homeowners don't necessarily know what they should be asking for as part of their pump package if you will and so this is very clear as to what we're recommending and think that all pumps should have associated with them so it would service that issue uh where there is a longer duration out outage that they could bring in a temporary generator um again the town could provide that or uh potentially any other contractor um also could provide that service okay and the third question I have is the give me some little better understanding so when these systems are put in um obviously uh year round residency you know everything works fine it's good for the system when when you have houses that are more seasonal my understand is it's not as good a scenario for the system and there could be some issues with that type of usage could you just clarify that or expand on that a little bit well one of the things I probably should have said at the very beginning is our our committee has been very um committed to the policy of maximizing gravity wherever possible so some of the scenarios that you've just mentioned wouldn't necessarily present themselves because somebody would be hooked up by gravity but there's always going to be those scenarios within the community where it's just not serviceable by gravity and this low pressure system is is going to have to be um addressed so you know we kind of looked at it from that perspective that if you uh can connect with gravity wherever possible that's certainly the preferred way to do it because there are some challenges with regards to uh pumps potentially not being used for significant parts of the year uh we did talk to many of the communities U that are also seasonal in nature maybe not as seasonal as as chadam uh they haven't specifically identified a really long uh list of issues but they be they can pop up from time to time if you don't use your pump as much as maybe a year round use would okay great thank you very much thank you anybody else from the board Jeff go ahead thank you Mike thank you Jeff uh for your hard work and for your committee's hard work it's really really really appreciate it I had just a couple questions the mash P I want to return to the MHP thing when it's appropriate and any other creative models that other towns on the cap have such as Falmouth I would like to hear more about that um maybe conversation with Bruce is appropriate he did the homework but I I was I was I want to ask about the the uh the grinder pump at no cost for those folks that are disadvantaged because there's no um uh low pressure main on their street or but versus the folks that maybe bought their property years ago or inherit their property where Topography is difficult never had had a septic system for years and never had any intention of ever tying into a sewer um but now should and may perhaps like to I don't understand the the demarcation there the reason why we'd support one and not support the other maybe I'm just being thickheaded but I just I need to hear more about that the rationale yeah we discussed that quite a bit and I think there was a diverse kind of opinion of that even within our committee again we came up with a recommendation here that we could unanimously get behind so I think if we were to look at that component uh low pressure system versus a pump on a gravity we'd kind of have a a split determination within our Board of what to recommend going forward uh but the thinking really was because it's a low pressure system you you have to have a pump that that's the reason why we' recommend the town provide essentially providing that pump uh when it comes to the gravity systems there's a lot of different ways to address that uh sometimes people might put a pump into their gravity connection because they have facilities in their basement if you will so it might not simply be topography within the lot and their houses you know well below and elevation the road it could be that somebody just wanted to put uh you know bathroom facilities within their basement so the idea was that is on some level a choice you could abandon those facilities in your basement and just maybe make a more simple gravity connection to the uh the street from your house and just not have that bathroom facility if you will uh or you could choose to install that pump and you know should the town provide that pump just because you wanted to have a bathroom in your basement uh so that that's really kind of where we we struggled with what that recommendation would be but on some levels and it isn't the case across the board for sure with gravity connections but on some cases people put pumps in because they want to enhance their uh circumstances and and our committee generally thought that the town really shouldn't participate in that um financially in that particular circumstance uh with that said if there's a negotiated price and we found that uh there could be as much as2 to $3,000 savings to a homeowner by using that town negotiated price on a pump that homeowner could benefit from that uh it's just that the town wouldn't necessarily provide them a a free pump if you will that was the thinking yeah I guess I struggled with a little bit um in terms of yeah you got uh you don't have access to a real gravity feed but you still need a gra you still need a grinder pump whether you're not whether it's low pressure in front of you or not I mean I just think it's it's inequitable um by virtue of topography or even if I elected to have a if I need a grinder pump I need a grinder pump if we're going to maximize the use of the system by the use of grinder pumps then we should provide grinder pumps whether it's topography or a bathroom in the in the basement or whatever um just seems that we're going to invest in it invest in the utility of our system where we've made massive Investments then folks need a grinder pump we got to get them one get them one anyway that's my editorial comment thanks thanks uh or Shireen thank you uh Jeff for the presentation um my question is just about scale I just I I'm I'm maybe this question has been answered before but how many properties in the the community um low pressure are going to need grinder pumps do you know the current estimate is approximately a thousand that number was slightly higher at the beginning of this uh you know Wastewater expansion phase that town is in but again pushing for Gravity as much as possible has reduced the number of uh grinder pumps in the system and even that might be reduced even more going forward if we're able to you know make some very strategic decisions about where we place gravity in the community oh just one more question do you foresee um in anytime soon with AI changing everything and where Technologies growing all the time that there might be some change in in in grinder pumps that would affect us like negotiating for them at this point it's possible I I think it's um a very mechanical system so there's probably not a huge amount of Technology opportunities there but they are improving the pumps and you know making them last longer like like they are for you know most things these days so I suspect there'll be some benefits and I think the town getting behind a kind of a negotiated option um in and the purchasing power associated with that will only help with that situation thank you thanks uh Dean thank you Mr chairman um thank you Jeff for the presentation I'm leaon to your committee and I've attended pretty much every meeting I think I missed one because I had a conflict on this topic and I appreciate all the work that um you and your fellow committee members have done on this uh so I just have a couple of questions just really for the benefit of the public um the most recent information it's probably not that current either is that the the individual the cost of an individual grinder pump the the machine itself is about um the the the cost on the open market is somewhere in the range of $10,000 is that that's correct that's my understand could be a little higher than that and the negotiated price that would would be anticipated on that figure would be something in the order of $6,000 that that sound right or slightly higher yeah6 to 7,000 okay um and as you said the original uh estimate was about 1,200 properties we're going to need this back in 2009 when the sewer project um was kicked off um it's dropped down to about a th000 but it's possibly possibly something in the order of 8 00 to a th000 depending on how we progress with each each connection each Street um and as you pointed out and this board knows we have uh attempted wherever possible to avoid low press lines uh and that meant um putting in um a localized smaller Pump Station if we had an easement or if there was was Town property available and in some streets that was not not available um one other thing about the the pumps themselves um that I've learned through the process they require little or no maintenance that's that's that's what you found I that's what we found in talk with other communities absolutely they're very reliable another reason why we're recommending this particular brand Not only was components of our system designed around it but it's a very reliable pump that typically needs very little maintenance they do have a relatively long life though um and what tends to go on them is the the core that may have to be replaced or re repaired over time after maybe as long as eight years or so but some of these can go um some of these units can last about 20 years that's my understanding um I want to um address something and I know this is called for in the recommendation we're going to hear from the um summer residence committee your committee um uh is calling for the town to pay for the cost of the pump itself but not not to subsidize not to have the taxpayers subsidize the cost of installation is that correct correct that's correct that's something that is uh particularly challenging you know where you draw the line what's the amount how is it logistically handled uh there's some real challenges I kind of alluded to that earlier around that component as well as the ongoing maintenance that are policy decisions that would need to be um you know carefully considered and the town currently does not pay for the cost of in for someone who who who has a gravity connection does not need a grinder pump the town does not currently pay for the cost of installation engineering or construction is that correct that's correct thank you Mr chairman thank you um just I just have one question and this is really a clarification when you were talking about uh prices of grinder pumps um that would be um uh that would be made available to to uh homeowners that need them but which we're we're just simply negotiating on their behalf versus prices of grinder pumps where U because of the low pressure Factor we're providing it I wasn't you you sounded as if you were saying there were different prices there maybe I just misapprehended uh I think the negotiated price associated with the again the town's purchasing power would be the same it's just a matter who pays yeah okay so um with the same limitation which Mr nicastro got close to um let me offer the uh the public an opportunity to ask clarifying questions uh of Mr Colby before we turn to the um the um summer residence advisory committee yes sir Mr oppenheim just a quick question um I think you made the comment that um as far as the installation part of a grinder pump that there was so many variables you couldn't really come up with what would be fair what are the variables uh the it really could depend on uh what the Topography of the lot is you know is it you know something that's easily accessible is it a little more difficult uh there could be components associated with um you know the the connection cost as as it stands now and in consistent with our recommendation would be the the homeowner selects the installer that we're recommending there be a list of you know it could be a lengthy list of installers uh and then the homeowner you know picks which installer there could be a variety of prices and so it could be for one particular installation an installer absent the cost of the pump might charge $5,000 for that another installer might say no it's more like $3,000 so that there's a a variable there I will say that the uh town of fouth participates in the cost of uh the installation and they've decided that the number they picked was 1,800 uh so it's it's really you know what is the right choice for uh our community and it it it varies but there's no there's the issue is what you're talking about is not a technical problem the talking is who you're going to negotiate your price with I mean listen if I'm listening to you so in other words I mean I've installed one at my daughter's house a couple years ago it was 60 ft class 14 almost $15,000 uh and that's two and a half years ago so my question is um why wouldn't you figure out a standard number and then you know that you think is fear by perhaps polling your licensed people or the people you recommend and maybe you have a variance from $2,000 to $5,000 and you sit there and say we're not going to if you want the Cadillac person you might have to pay a premium if you want the low-end person to do it you could do the lowend and come up with just a standardized rate as what's the was it fouth you said and just say okay the average rate for the install uh over and above because it is much more money to install those including engineering Etc than it is for a gravity thing why wouldn't you just come up with a number and say okay we're going to pick a number of $2,500 if you spend $5,000 you pay the difference if you get it done for 2500 you're covered what did you consider doing that I you certainly could do it that way uh again there's you know challenges with regards to um individual site conditions I will tell you that as I mentioned before uh Bruce did quite a bit of research he actually reached out to installers and asked them the same questions you're asking what is the you know typical cost you know what does that look like and installers were very hesitant to give specifics without seeing the property knowing some of those specifics so it is as I mentioned before a very complex topic and components to it but certainly what you're describing is something that could be done our committee is not currently recommending doing it that way but it could be done I have to disagree with you because I don't think it's complex at all I mean each site can be different I agree with you completely on that but the reality is most sites would be relatively standard like for example an abami run uh where you ended up putting in a pressure system all but three lots would have been able to have gravity if you put gravity in there they're flat they're straight out in my daughter's case it was 60 ft to the connection um and that would be true of most of the places I'm not talking about what you have to change your plumbing in the basement or something like that CU that's Equity that's what the your gravity or otherwise so I again what's without dealing with the uniqueness of a particular piece of property why wouldn't you consider as as for Equity of across the board why wouldn't you just consider a flat rate that we're going to apply like fouth did which is very sensible in my POS in my my and hopefully it's subject to inflationary increases later why wouldn't you just pick a number we're going to pay for the pump we're going to pay for a port we're going to pay for what we think is a standard insulation installation if you have unique Pro problems with your lot that's your problem if you have uh if you you decide you want to use the most expensive guy that's your problem I I don't understand it because I don't think what you're saying makes any sense with regards to uh challenges the challenge of a particular lot has nothing to do with whether you have a standardized fee or not so I disagree with that completely thank you um any other questions from the house here uh what about online any any questions from Mr Colby online uh Miss Gibbs uh yes I I had planned on uh when do you want us to make our comments after um the summer residents speak yeah I I I what I because I don't have questions I have comments okay well I what what I was was hoping to promote was getting the recommendations and clarifications on the table from both Mr Colby and the summer residents and and then at that point um opening it up to um comments uh what whatever you want to say about you know uh how you feel about column A or B or anything else okay I can hold my comments until then as long as I'll have another opportunity you will have another opportunity okay thank you thank you um so I I trust you're going to stick around um we'll go to the uh we'll go to the summer residence advisory committee at this point thanks for the moment I'm sure you'll be back um and I will invite um Mr spalter Jeffrey spalter who is the um chair of the summer residence advisory committee uh to present uh your um recommendation okay welcome Jeff hello thank you good evening uh I think we're looking for uh some help from TV oh there we go they've got the presentation for us we appreciate that um so again Mike thank you for the introduction and as you said I'm Jeff spalter I'm the chair of the summer advisory committee uh and on behalf of our committee we really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you all this evening uh tonight we'll share with you our position on the responsibility to pay for grinder pumps the purchase the installation and the repair costs um this is and we're still on the cover page this is an issue that impacts a broad resident base and while we represent the summer or part-time residents all residents can be impacted by grinder pumps depending on where their property dieses and their topography and while this issue has been outstanding for a long time it hasn't really surfaced in a material way yet as the main sewer line is now progressing to a point where more residents have to make a connection we've tried to focus our presentation this evening on the core issues of grinder pump purchase installation and repair and not get into ancillary issues at this time of course we'll be glad to try to address any issues or questions that you may have uh and if we can't respond now we'll be glad to come back to you again I'm not a real technical guy I'm more of a financial guy but we'll do it uh we'll do what we can to uh to move things forward so we really do appreciate your attention this evening if we go to page two the agenda our proposed agenda for the evening starts with some Basics on grinder pumps to try to get us all on the same page specifically what they are and why they're needed but then like to reconnect with the position we shared with you and the summer residents at the Summertown meeting in August after that we put together a bit of a history as to how we got here and and why we're even talking about grinder pump responsibility we'll then share a new position for the SRC regarding responsibility for grinder pump repair uh and wrap up with a quick summary uh so if this agenda Works everybody we we'll move ahead that's good thanks very much Jeff okay thank you so if we move to page three what is a grinder pump uh we pulled together a couple of pages of grinder pump information just to level set and hopefully get us all on the same page again we're not technical folks we might have to ask either Rob FY or or Tom bar to help us out here and appreciate their support and we appreciate the help of some of the lime Hill residents who have a more technical background that we do have provided some data that's been quite helpful uh SO grinder pumps were developed in the 1970s to make it easier and more efficient to move ethin or liquids through a sewer system from residence to a water treatment plant municipalities typically used a gravity system where waste flowed downhill when it had to be pushed uphill a pumping station was required gravity systems are expensive to build as the sewer line has to be buried deep in front of properties to allow gravity to work and move waste from the residence to the sewer line with grinder pumps the sewer line doesn't have to be buried as deep and you can use a smaller pipe which saves money and the grinder pump can then move the waste from the residence to the sewer line this photo shows what a grinder pump inside its housing looks like and its relative size the entire unit is buried with only the top ring above ground on the next page we can get into a bit more detail so page four please so the right side of this page shows the actual grinder pump core this works like a garbage disposal and when a grinder pump has to be replaced we are really talking about this core not the rest of the unit that remains in the ground the core can be removed by one person and it takes about 10 minutes the left side of the page shows a drawing of the inside of a grinder pump unit the bottom half of the grinder pump the bottom half of the grinder pump unit shows the waist holding tank and in the middle is the grinder pump core so all of the waste from a residence flows into the holding tank at the bottom and is then ground up by the grinder pump into a slurry and is pumped to the main sewer line on the left side of the grinder pump unit you can see the discharge line that connects to the sewer system the top half of the grinder pump unit allows for access to the grinder pump core and houses some of the mechanicles so it's not a very sophisticated setup and again allows for easy access to the grinder pump core repair or replacement so we can move to page five we talk about why grinder pumps as mentioned earlier grinder pumps are used when a home is lower than the street where the sewer line sits the pump is required to move the waist uphill to the main line a low press spur is a smaller line that relies on the pressure from the grinder pumps to move effent to the main sewer line the sewer line can then be laid more shallow thus reducing the cost of the sewer project along with the smaller pipe grinder pumps are used to reduce the overall cost of installing the main sewer line the sewer line does not have to be buried as deep which reduces excavation cost and those cost savings can be substantial about 30 to 50% so for example when grinder pumps are engaged the sewer may only have to be buried at 4 feet versus 10 feet or deeper harwi has actually gone 30 ft deep to avoid grinder pumps and and let me be clear here I was going back validating my references and I could not find where I found that reference and so I may have to come back and Val and get back you if that's not correct Additionally the pipe used is smaller and there are no pumping stations further saving cost the cost savings accr to the main sewer line project now just for a perspective we are now talking about a th grinder pumps in chadam which you also heard from from Jeff earlier the initial estimate in 2009 was about 1,00 and there's been work done to reduce the number of grinder pumps that would be needed we do not yet know where these grinder pumps will have to be installed so we do not know who might be impacted if we can move to page six we'll talk about grinder pump incremental cost and some of the inconvenience with the scope of a th000 residences in mind we thought it would be worthwhile to talk about the incremental cost of grinder pumps along with the inconvenience and it's easy to see why no one wants a grinder pump first and most obvious there's an incremental cost for a sewer connection when a grinder pump is required first there's the cost for the grinder pump itself along with the installation cost which can vary depending on the number of factors that we'll talk about later but the current estimate we're using is about 115,000 to $15,000 and one quick point to clarify the incremental installation cost that we're talking about is the electrical connection that a grinder pump will require to operate not any of the excavation costs there are a number of inconveniences that a homeowner is saddled with when a grinder pump is used versus a gravity connection for example during a power adage the grinder pump will not operate and the amount of waste from the house yes the number of flushes will be limited there are restrictions on what items can be passed through a grinder pump things like baby wipes or feminine products most items other than toilet paper can damage the grinder pump and put it out of commission and when the pump is out of commission again the number of flushes is limited if the waste system is idle for periods of time as you heard it must be flushed and that can be a challenge during periods of vacation or seasonal absences and again steps must be taken to prevent freezing some residences typically older ones may require an electrical panel upgrade in order to handle the grinder pump electricity demand this can cost this cost can range from $3,000 to $155,000 and is additive to the 11.5 to 15,000 grinded pump estimate we shared earlier and finally there could be repair cost for the grinded pumps again as you've heard there very there there's very little little Maintenance and Service required certainly in the early years but we'll talk about that more later so with that in mind if you're okay we can move to page seven uh and I'd like to reconnect with you all back to the Summertown meeting uh so with the background we've shared I wanted to reconnect to the position that we shared which is to have the town pay for the grinder pump acquisition and installation this is consistent with the original cwmp proposal and the related project additionally we felt this position is Equitable as the entire town benefits from the sewer project and homeowners shouldn't have to pay substantially more to connect to the main sewer line based upon their local topography or decision by the town to save dollars if we can move to page eight the the basis for our position in August is that this the cwmp included the cost of grinder pumps purchased and installed if we quickly look at page nine you can see where the cost was included in the cwmp budget you can see we've got that highlighted there's a reference at the for collection system costs and the footnote below costs include grinder pumps and grinder pump connection to the sewer and then if we go to page 10 Jeff for Jeff forgive me for interrupting I just for the benefit of uh some of us the cwmp am I correct that's the comprehensive Wastewater management Pro program or project right yes that's correct yeah I apologize no no no that's okay I thank you go ahead sorry comprehensive water Wastewater management plan yes and so these docu these documents are from that plan uh and so we're on page 10 and table 9.1 shows a bit a bit more of a detailed breakdown of the sewer cost estimate and you can see there's a line that's starred down there at the bottom uh that shows an expectation of a cost to be incurred by the project for 1,200 grinder pumps at a total cost of of I'm getting old $12.6 million so if we can go back to page eight thank you there were also public Communications and Communications to town residents regarding responsibility for grinder pumps for example there is a 2010 FAQ that we show on page 11 that states the proposed Town policy is that the town will purchase and install grinder pumps so if we go to page 11 for just a second so this was distributed uh to the community back in uh 2010 you can see uh who pays for installs and maintains the grinder pumps proposed Town policies that the town will purchase and install the grinder pump this will require the property owner granting and access construction easement the property owner will then be responsible for maintenance and ongoing electrical cost cost thank you so if we can go back to page eight another example is a 2011 consultant presentation to the select board and our August letter to the select board in advance of the Summertown meeting includes the detailed support for our position and was attached to the material for this meeting we believe that taxpayers voters homeowners are entitled to rely on the cwmp and the subsequent representations by the town and its agenda and employees so if we can move ahead to page 12 thank you say well how how did we get here and why are we having these discussions we wondered why would the town have even contemplated paying for grinder pumps in the first place well the decision to install the sewer system to meet nitrogen levels was expensive and the town had to develop broad support to pay for this long-term and costly project we go to page 13 we reviewed the citizens advisory committee minutes from the 2000s to get a better understanding the minutes showed that there was concern with the cost of the sewer project and the cost of individual homeowners and it was important to get enough support from the voters to approve the cwmp and the related spending so including the project cost in the tax rate would spread it across Ross a broader base and including the grinder pumps would make the connection affordable to a larger group this would also facilitate connections and obviously the benefit to be gained from the project itself our our approach recognizes that all chadam residents benefit from the sewer system whether in Phase One or phase two also this approach also recognizes that residents are required to connect to the Sewer there is not a lower cost option available such as remaining on subject despite all the work that we've done we have not found any documentation of challenges or reverses the town's position to pay for grinder pumps or to make any changes to the plan we reviewed the CAC minutes from 2002 to 2007 in detail and there were only a couple of minutes available from 2008 meetings and we can find nothing no minutes available for 2009 that we could review with this in mind the SRC position has not changed and we still feel the town should pay for the purchase and installation of grinder comps if we can move to page 14 we now like to move to what for us is a new and and a final topic here responsibility for grinder pump repair our recommendation is that the town tape responsibility for grinder pump repair subject to some limitations we feel that the town takes respons responsibility for the provision of grinder pumps and their installation repair would be aligned with and consistent with that position since the pumps will essentially become part of the Town owned and operated sewer system grinder pump repair should be treated consistent with other repairs to the town system this recognizes the base incremental costs and challenges for residents with grinder pumps many residents have little or no experience with grinder pumps nor their service providors having the town take on this responsibility will help ensure that these pumps are properly attended to so they have minimal downtime as that is quite an inconvenience to the resident owner additionally many towns across Massachusetts take responsibility for grinder pump repair where grinder pumps are mandated we have not developed a proposed repair policy but recommend the town create one that contemplates at least the following most pumps come with a 5-year warrant such that repair costs in year 1 through five are minimal and these pumps as you heard last about 20 years but the first service not needed until about year 10 if repair is required due to improper use of the pump the cost is the responsibility of the resident this practice is in place today in some other towns pump out service during a temporary power outage should be provided to help residents deal with the inconvenience of their grinder pump not working and finally the town should replace the core at the end of its useful life if there's been no evidences of improper use we recognized that Communications to the public in 2010 stated that maintenance would be the responsibility of the homeowner however as we have learned more about the importance of high functioning and low downtime grinder pumps along with the lack of knowledge that most owners have of the pumps themselves and their related challenges we felt this position would be more appropriate so moving to page 15 this page is just an estimate of grinder pump cost should the select board adopt our recommend or recommended positions on the left side is the cost shared and the waste waterer plan engineering installation and pump cost total about $10,500 and the for the estimated 1,200 pumps that were needed the total cost was $12.6 Million which is consistent with the data on page eight this represents 3.7% of the total $340 million project cost and this is in $207 the right side shows a a more current estimate and and let's be granted this is high level and it can vary quite a bit based on terrain actual pump cost the distance of the connection Etc the cost for a relatively straightforward grinder pump installation in 2024 ranges from 11.5 to $15,000 again the incremental installation cost is only for the electrical connection we're now looking about a th000 pumps bringing the cost uh bring the cost about 3.4 to 4.4% of the total project cost in 2007 uh and as you heard actually from uh from the audience participation uh there are some relatively straightforward ways to compensate homeowners for installation cost with some sort of standard payment and I believe it was in Falmouth uh the town did some research on about 495 Brer pump installs took the average incremental cost uh for the electrical connection and that's what they reimburse homeowners we've added a repair estimate of about $170,000 per year beginning in about 10 years again there's no repair cost the first five years with the warranty in place and then the pumps age the average cost is about $170 per pump per year there's no ongo no real ongoing maintenance for these pumps and the cost is for repairs and for core replacement so we can move to page 16 uh this will be our final page and again we really appreciate your patience and your engagement here in summary we recommend the town pay for grinder pump acquisition and installation and develop a policy to pay for installation and as mentioned we also recommend the town pay for grinding the pump repair subject to the limitations especially as it relates to pump misuse with Town staff determining the best approach to deliver this service we've mentioned this before but wanted to just reiterate that residents who have already installed and paid for grinder pump should be reimbursed based upon whatever policies are ultimately decided by the select board there's some backup material that we hope you all will find helpful we have no to cover that with you tonight there's some thoughts on an approach to the requested policies and some data about grer pump experience in other towns so with that we thank you all for your time and attention uh and look forward to to your questions thank you very much thank you very much Jeff um let me turn first to the select board um questions I don't see any questions here um how about here in the house uh Mr upen uh David op I 87 abam we run um first of all I think the SRA presentation was extremely well done on point and dealing with equity in in through what's gone on through the town um and unfortunately I feel the opposite of The Advisory Board I think the approach there was to save the town money as opposed to looking at Equity um as I've said before I've lived here for over 50 years and and when you start talking about people having to give up the bathrooms that they put in their basements maybe even put in well before uh uh SE was even contemplated in this town is absolutely ridiculous uh uh thing to contemplate um the this talk we've reduced since all this discussions happened the apparent demand going forward for um grinder pumps from 12200 down to a th000 because they said they were going to do um uh um gravity wherever possible yet yet that's not has been the case when we were approached prior to the pandemic uh we met with Mr Duncan Dr duncanson and he wanted to do abami run of which I believe there's 21 or 22 Lots I can't remember exactly of which all except for two or three would have been able to do gravity but it was going to save the uh Town quite a bit of money doing that way and it was certainly under my understanding because i' follow all the policy that then when grinder pumps came you would the town would take care of them uh it wasn't a long discussion I think it was on most of our parts it was presumed because it was clearly part of the policy in the town so here's one place where it could have been Gravity the town is my understanding at abs scammy run saved over $500,000 and that's five or 6 years ago when it was installed and then you just saw what the costs are took for usually once the it's it goes in um it's it's very quickly approved and you get your 2-year hookup uh charge from the town we didn't get that for a long time in fact we didn't get it until about uh three or four almost over 3 years after the thing was installed for whatever reasons cuz the state hadn't approved it I don't know if it had to do with the pandemic I have no clue so um obviously during that period of time the cost of grinder pumps went up enormously because as everything else has so here's abami run which wouldn't be having this discussion we could have had gravity and we would have been talking about two houses below grade um that would have needed uh grinder pumps and instead they all need grinder pumps um so I don't think the and then the lime Hill group that did a a presentation to I think about a year ago they did also an excellent job obviously there's a way some people got frustrated and I and I don't know the details of the independence Lane situation but Independence Lane apparently put in a pressure system and then got angry about it so now we've ripped that out and my understanding and we're going to some of it's going to be on gravity and some of be on on pumping stations which she'll be taken care of the P the uh by the town um my understanding and I don't know whether these numbers are correct that the total cost of redoing all that and doing it was something close to 3/4 of a million dollars I don't know how that decision like that was made cuz we'd like to know cuz maybe abami would like to come in and have their pressure system ripped up and perhaps we could have a gravity system where it clearly could be done that's not going to happen but like unlikely to happen but uh when this was passed which has been stated over and over again and is documented in e in equity everybody was going to share so if you look at abami run where you where we saved approximately $500,000 on the installation you're now laying off over roughly 20 houses or 22 houses an additional cost of at least $155,000 to each house um that's $300,000 that are going to be laid off on with that $300,000 savings under the advisory commissions would be saved by uh excuse me would be go over the tax rate but it would be all borne by the 20 lot owners that would have to do it that's not Equity that's not what we voted for it's it's wrong completely um just so you know I just did a little thing about um what's the same with with gravity everybody uh if you have a basement where you're septic about whether you're on gravity or whether you're on a grinder pump you have to switch your plumbing and your um in your basement everybody's cost would be the same that's fair and Equitable uh everybody has to do an engineering plan and that's fair and Equitable whether you're on gravity or whether you're on a pump difference is it's more money for the engineering plan not hugely more but something in the order of I would guess around $500 extra to do it if it's a grinder pump uh that's going in and that's uh Landscaping when you run it in you're tearing up your Landscaping to some degree depends the degree on the house you're in or everything else that's going to happen whether it's a grinder pump or whether it is a gravity system um and some people say that well it's it's more expensive to dig it deeper to a gravity system that's nominal cost very nominal cost for a BHO to go down six or 8 feet I opposed to only going out something like four feet it's it's a very very different thing um as I've said here I put in a we renovated my daughter's house uh in 2022 we had received our 2-year notice and since we were going to um renovate the house we decided that would be the right time I I asked about what the story was with rebates and they said there was a the final policy was being developed and worked on so we put it in fully expecting to be reimbursed under equity and and then of course all this stuff has happened um we did this it's approaching it's over two years ago now and the cost at the time was $4,220 60 ft from the house to the connection over a lawn we didn't take down stone walls we had to remove one section of fence of fence to do it we had to repair the entire uh irrigation system cuz that was ripped up but that would have been the same whether it was um gravity or whether some so that then that that's again something we all would share um what's it going to cost they'll be cono as as it's been stated I I just want to do the obvious uh the con electric which I don't think is that expensive over time although who knows electric rates are the the installation of a grinder pump I think the the numbers that uh sraak had are correct um normal maintenance I think again I think it should be done that way the one thing that will never be Equitable if you're on a grinder pump is if you don't have a generator when you lose power you lose the use of your house this myth that was perpetuated by a former employee that you could have probably a half a day is worth of use your house is is not true that's just not true and everybody talks about in the winter when the power goes out what about when the summer when the power goes out for three or four days um you know where are you going to send your people to the Porta paties at one of the beaches or you're not going to get into a motel cuz they're hope y full um it's not just winter there are people um on once you lose it you're done you move out of your house CU you can't use it um regardless of what type of heat you have people say you can get portable generators you can all right so let's picture our elderly population um and they have a portable generator that they can hook up outside their house and they have to make sure they have gas it's full and hopefully they have electric starts so they're not pulling a cord and they have the proper hookups and then then they could possibly take care of their grinder pump on that a unit like that will run between three and $5,000 uh at my daughter's house we put in a larger generator that runs the house basically and that was uh about a little over $112,000 another thing about the these are things that are not I'm not suggesting the town pay for those but understand when you're talking about Equity the least the very least the town can do is pay for the grinder pump the installation at a set level cuz there it is up to the choice I mean you can get better deals from one person to another a set level and then it should be part of the sewer system and it's maintained srax had a very good point about proper maintenance by the homeowner that's not a problem that would involve an education it would be a crib sheet for so for example my daughter's a seasonal resident we make sure that uh the waters is run every week in the house so that the the grinder pump is used every week doesn't take very long that's proper maintenance and it and it pretty much guarantees that there's going to be very limited problems uh other than normal problems because the other problem is the other people won't have generators so that's an equity that I I think to ask the town uh to pay thousands of dollars for generators which quite frankly I think they should but that's never going to happen um and and wasn't contemplated the only thing contemplated and documented is the grinder were included in the deal the entire sewer system was sold on Equity the benefit for everybody in the town even though North chattam might be done not done for 20 or 30 years down the road they were going to benefit because of the water quality that was going to be helped throughout the town by a sour system it's a great it's a great thing for us to do I think people are shocked by how much the prices have gone up well we're shocked by all the prices that have gone up over the years but also your real estate has doubled or tripled in that same period of time I think any consideration for anything other than paying for the grinder pump paying for the installation and taking care of the normal maintenance without abuse as long as the homeowner is doing it is unfair unreasonable and should be uh and and should not be adopted by this town we should look at being we always talk about being at the Forefront of things there was suggestions about computerization for maintenance of things were done I think one of the dubas Eugene dubas talked about that you talking about mashby that's trying to make it do it let's do it right let's pay for the T let's pay for it and let's make sure that we maintain what we did when we voted otherwise we've been lied to over the years it's equity and we should maintain the equity thank you thank you thank you um anybody else from the the people in the room here uh I can't tell uh do we have anybody online Miss Gibbs Miss Gibbs uh yes thank you uh Al Gibs uh this grinder pump policy in my view is premature inequitable and I believe sets a terrible pres uh precedent uh parts of the Wastewater comprehensive plan which was used in the presentation by the summer residents to make the case for approval uh was completed in 2009 and passed a town meeting uh in 2012 I'm sorry 2010 that document is over 1,200 pages long and has been amended many times under adaptive management to take only selective Pages out of a 15 plus year old document that's 12200 pages long uh to justify approval of this policy when most of what all chatam homeowners were promised in that original document has not occurred and is putting the cart way before the horse I think somebody else is speaking can you hear me it is garbled if someone has has a a a microphone on would you please turn it off go ahead Miss Gibbs yes that chadam owners we were all promised a lot in that original document that has not occurred and this is putting the cart before the horse we should not be picking and choosing who is going to get a break until we know the full Financial impact to all chatam homeowners who pay whether or not they will ever be sewered a large group of us many many people came out during the select board meetings leading up to approval of town meeting in 2010 many were opposed to it because of the grinder pumps Mr oppenheim was there I was there I gave a presentation on the on the issues with grinder pumps but the town voted for it everybody knew going in that grinder pumps were going to be a a huge part of the plan and that there were going to be low pressure and there are going to be gravity and uh so we you can go and probably get get a copy of those meetings at the time of the original plan there were approximately 7,700 properties in chadam that included single and multif family residential commercial industrial and institutional there are more today with new subdivisions in Condominiums added I have provided the DPW and water insur with a chatam land use GIS document that was used in the comprehensive plan development from 2003 to 2009 to show that those numbers are accurate the plan was to eventually sewer the entire town to reduce nitrogen levels in two phases phase one was to have 2third of those 7700 properties at the time connected to the Sewer by fy3 which is only four years away approximately 5,100 properties should have been sewered by then at a projected cost at the time of $240 million in $2 2007 that included the Wastewater treatment facility those were 2007 numbers and the remaining 1/3 would be completed if needed by 240 to date over aund million not including the wastewater treatment facility uh less than $800 properties that's 16% of those 5100 properties in Phase One have been connected when the areas currently under constructions are complete only 1350 properties sets 26% of what we were told will have infrastructure completed with the remaining 3,800 still to be done by 2030 although we were told we would have the numbers by this month we still have not been provided by the town uh staff the cost in the hundreds of millions to complete phase one of the sewer and when how much is projected uh to cost for the wells that I had previously mentioned installation or servicing by the town on private property should never occur we should not be stepping foot on the property the liability is tremendous there are people that will not do what they're supposed to to maintain it and to say well it's complicated in a high learning curve we all own our properties we all take care of them we all have many things many people have generators we know it's our responsibility to make sure that our pipes don't freeze this is another uh kind of thing that we do as responsible homeowners uh this proposal pays for grinder pumps only for those on low pressure because they have spoken the loudest and because the price of a pump has doubled since those 2007 numbers however property values have gone up tenfold and income has tripled since then because of inflation and Sewer increases uh uh and sewering of the properties increases the property values to the disadvantage of those who will never be soared in town yet are paying for it those with land grade issues though through no fault of their owner gravity requiring a grinder pump will potentially have to trench 20 feet to connect because if someone on a gravity sewer is in between two pump stations That's How Deep The stub is and it will be their responsibility to French or bore from that stub to their homes uh let me see uh I don't think uh the inequities in heent of not subsidizing those on gravity only low pressure that also require grinder pumps because of low elevation those homes with long setbacks whose connection costs will be significant due to the distance from the road the depth of the stub the damage to their landscaping and irrigation and re-plumbing of the interior of the their homes those who have been required to install Wells for irrigation because it is now illegal to connect to the town would all have to uh an argument that this is selective and inequitable every single resident who has significant costs to connect for various reasons and those who've never been sewered or never will be have the privilege of paying for everyone else when you say the town should pay it's not the town it's the taxpayers who are already paying a lot and we still don't know the hundreds of Millions have ahead of us and those who have never been sewered will have the privilege of paying for everyone else this should be put on hold unless and until it is Equitable and we have all of the still unknown financial implications both to Water and Sewer which are the two largest bills facing taxpayers I think the one solution you could do if you want to move forward is to negotiate a price for homeowners whether they're on low pressure or gravity with no cost to the taxpayers no additional cost to the taxpayers I think we are already paying enough and there should be never I I can just see a situation where there is neglect on a property and if the town takes responsibility as soon as they set foot there will be lawsuits they will there will be the blame game the town didn't do it right you installed it wrong you uh you you didn't drain it properly we don't have Town staff to do that that is an exorbitant cost and that's not even built into this I mean you're talking about the pumps here when you're talking $6 million but if we actually provide staff or pay for the repair and the maintenance you are talking a lot more money so I hope you will not approve this there it it is totally inequitable and it is costing every I think a house that is set back 200t from the road their cost could be 50 to 100,000 so everybody has an issue everybody has separate situations and you are jumping the gun by picking on this particular issue with gider pumps when it's it's we don't know the total cost of the town so I hope you will vote no thank you thank you um anybody else online um yes sir can I please you just have to come to the microphone and and identify yourself hi Bob huberman 155 Lim Hill Road representing the Lim Hill home homeowners association we've been following this for a couple years and um let me say first of all that I think we have to be careful when we talk when we're talking about other towns and comparing chadam to other towns many of the towns around here that have homeowners pay for grind depart s by the way I'm going to be very quick we have a whole presentation that we put aside and most of it was covered by everybody else so I have two points to make here um so most of the towns that have homeowners pay for grinder pumps are towns that are not Apples to Apples with chatam in other words they have um they don't have per se they don't even have a low pressure system they basically have people who have disadvantaged properties that are too far away or down the Gully they pay for grind pumps towns like Welsley uh Millis Mansfield peppol Palmer Kingston all of those towns make the homeowner pay for grinder pumps but there's no low pressure Spurs those towns simply make the people with disadvantage properties pay so if you consider like properties it's a different situation also there are many towns that have the homeowners pay that are optional tie-ins home can stay on septic if they want they don't have to tie in so if you take like properties with chadam Apples to Apples the vast majority of other towns pay for service and take care of the pumps but I don't want to I don't want to move on from that I know everybody's quite tired of this so I don't think it's important what other towns are doing I think chadam should make their own decision they're a separate entity and I think chadam would be fair way back 15 years ago whatever it was it Town decided to put grinder pumps into low pressure systems in certain streets that was decided with the Consultants basically because the streets would need a lift pump one or two lift pumps and the cost to do that is considerably more than putting in grinder pumps now low pressure system installation is cheaper and the savings is not insignificant and on top of that you don't have the maintenance down the road that you will have for a uh a gravity system you know gravity systems down the road you're going to be paying for for inspection Clos circuit TV inspection for for jetting for Odor Control for repair for lift pump repairs Etc you don't have most of that with uh low pressure system so low pressure system is a viable option you City sound saves a lot of money or the town in this case saves a lot of money however and there's probably going to be about 100 lift pumps from what I understand in chadam which means consider considerable amount of service but let me be clear on this this is a financial decision that was made by the town there you can put uh gravity anywhere matter of fact before 1970s when grinder pumps come out every street had gravity no matter what the challenge and you look at somewhere like Cedar Point and situ which is a tremendous challenge that's all gravity feed so gravity can be put anywhere so it was a financial decision which I'm fine with I mean City saved Town saved a lot of money CH but with all so theis decisions made in the homeowners had designated reive an inferior system basically with all this just restrictions that come with a grinder pump loss of use during power outage cost to operate severe restriction what goes down Etc now even though the town has saved a significant amount amount of money by installing a low pressure system and will continue to save money through the years on maintenance the St the town at this point still wants the homeowners to pay the cost of the pump The increased installation cost and the periodic periodic servicing of the pumps those on gravity feed are not paying any of that all homeowners are on the same tax rate every everyone should be treated the same our feeling is the town should purchase and service the grinder pumps and pay those homeowners a stien for the additional installation cost as David oppenheim said um a few other quick issues the installation cost is higher because basically because of electric versus gravity feed your electric cost is going to be 1,500 to 2,000 which crowd fee doesn't have so it suggest that is basically the the the ra uh the rationale and why fouth pay the h00 stien it was more more or less electric cost and that was 2016 so now it's probably more money I also think the town should fig uh can come up with a policy for generation service for Generator Service I'm sorry on power outs and the other issue that you you need to entertain is what about all those families who have to upgrade their Electric System you know that's a big issue homes of the 100 amps probably can't service a grinder pump and have to go to one 50 and the real cost and the variation is Jeff had it 3,000 to 15,000 comes down to trenching if your line comes trenched and it trenched in 50 ft it's going to be a lot of money if it's not trenched it's going to be a lot less anyway that's what I have to say any questions for me anybody your name sorry Bob huberman huberman hberman hu v e r m an thank you thank you helpful um anybody else here I I I guess I i' I'd like to ask um you Jeff Colby um to um just to comment if you would on I mean we obviously have uh you know sort of Polar Opposites in terms of the approach uh to be taken um and I I want to emphasize I think that you know your committee as the SRA committee did um a a serious effort at coming up with something that that had a rationale for it and and made sense um they're just sort of at I mean in some ways you can say uh one side says the town pays and the other side says no the town doesn't uh did did you your does your committee give any thought to the the issue that which is the core of of est's position which is what was done uh back in 2009 what was part of the plan um and as a a kind of a Cory to that I Jeff didn't mention it Jeff uh spalter didn't mention it but I think I saw somewhere in their presentation that a change from what is represented as the policy that was adopted back then would need to go back and get approval from the uh kcot commission um so if you wouldn't mind addressing those two questions I would appreciate it sure sure I think that there's been a lot of discussion about all all these issues we spent uh you know multiple years now kind of talking through this with the committee uh what I would say on the uh policy there was nothing that we could find um and we did ask again uh past staff and current staff about this uh that indicated that this this board which sets the policy this the sewer Commissioners uh determined that that was the polic that the town would pay for grinder pumps or installation uh many of the documents that have been produced which are all great and I really appreciate the the research and uh passion around this issue uh but a lot of those were kind of planning level documents that town staff put together uh without a kind of formal backing of a policy um from the sewer Commissioners or select board and so with that said um it's really up to to this board to kind of determine what what level of uh participation uh the town um should make and uh so that that's kind of you know one of the things we looked at with regards to uh what's been said the other thing that i' I'd like to mention that that hasn't really been said is one of the biggest challenges with developing a Wastewater system is finding those easements for pump stations so uh while in some cases the uh low pressure system will be uh will save the town money to install versus deep gravity uh many times those decisions are made because you can't find a pump station to put gravity in and so unfortunately there are cases in this community and every Community where low pressure was used because there wasn't a a good spot or there wasn't a willingness to put a pump station in to service a certain neighborhood so that's just a component to think about when um you look at all these different issues and as I mentioned before it's a complic it's a complex issue uh lots of elements lots of variables and um and so we have talked about those with our committee and uh and I'm sure we will you know a lot of these elements going forward as well okay thank you anybody else well for the moment I I I think that can concludes the presentations I I guess I'd like to ask the board um how we think we we can move this issue forward I mean it's not something that's going to solve itself and I think we have to address it some um Dean you want to start yes thank you Mr chairman I I don't know how far the board wants to go tonight um but I I have some thoughts um um let me just say I appreciate both presentations um and I heard the presentation of this of sck at this their annual Summertown meeting um let me just say up front if we would accept this s recommendation uh which um takes um um which has an estimate as high as $115,000 for installation cost and you add that to the generator cost which could be as low as $6,000 discounted you multiply that by a th000 homes you're talking about $20 million expenditure on the taxpayers well but it they I don't think I understood them to be proposing to pay for the generator I think sck is saying pay for the generator and the installation I don't think they Jeff do you want to comment on that uh yeah certainly yeah no we have no I didn't mean the generator I'm sorry I I meant the the pump the pump I apologize yeah the the r the r the range that we have is from 115 to 15,000 is a range uh so 15,000 at a th000 pumps is $15 million which is about 4% of the total project cost so the the the bottom line is if you take if you take I'm taking the highest estimate of 15,000 but you could drop it down to 10,000 we're talking multiple millions of dollars to commit the town to at a time when we're dealing with many other projects as you pointed out last week Mr chairman when we had the discussion about the housing issue there are a lot of issues facing this board um I am one of those property owners who connected to gravity um at the order of the Board of Health back in 2006 and 7 and it cost me with all the items that have been articulated approximately $16,000 to avoid having to put a grinder pump so I have some understand ending uh and um my property was dug up pretty deeply um as well as neighbors property uh that was paved so let me just say us um that the water and sewer committee which is the committee with expertise in this area to which we have referred this issue um looked at has looked at this extensively and submitted a recommendation that the town pay for the pump with the install and maintenance being the property owner's responsibility I think their recommendation provides the basis for a policy the water and sewer committee heard a presentation from Dr Dunson who As I understood in effect indicated that the town did not make any undertaking to pay the full cost of grind of the grinder product install and maintenance back in 2009 and or so and today the town has not he indicat ated the town has not adopted an actual formal policy on grinder pumps I think Dr Dunson input is significant because he was the town speaker who presented the plan at the annual town meeting in 2009 with article 14 when the initial funding borrowing for the sewer project was presented and approved by the voters there has never been a town meeting or a select board vote expressly adopting a policy on how to handle grinder pumps so I think it's open to the water and sewer Commissioners that's us Andor town meeting I'd be happy to send this town meeting and see if they really want to spend 15 or20 million on this but I think it's open to us to develop an adopt a policy looking at it through the lens of equity which to me is not the same as equality of result but means fairness and in light of the issues and challenges that face the town today I submit that the water and sewer committee report provides the architecture of a policy with some possible modifications including items borrowed from the Sak recommendation I could personally support modifying the water and sewer advisory committee proposal to add and include the town paying the cost of replacement of the grinder pump pump core when the initial grinder pump has reached its life's end through normal wear and here and I I could support including the town providing a Contracting for emergency service in the case of power outage we've talked about maintenance a little bit it doesn't seem to be an issue um and I have some sympathy for those property owners who independent of their personal choice of Lifestyle need a grinder because of topography and I think we should consider applying the same benefit to them I do not support paying for the engineering and construction costs I think these should be for be borne by the property owner as is the case with those property owners who are on gravity every property owner every property is different and um I do think if we do adopt a policy to pay something that we should apply that retroactively to those who have already installed grinder pumps at the um in in in at the instigation of the town so those are my observations on it I don't know if we'll be adopting anything tonight but I wanted to get that out thank you Mr chairman thank you Jeff yeah thank you Mike and thank you Mr necastro and thank you Jeff spalter and Jeff Colby and the committee this is not an uncomplicated uh issue um it is one of equity and fairness and I largely I think agree with uh select board member nicastro's uh list just then um what did bother me and I articulated it earlier was the bifurcation between those folks that are run low pressure but also um in needing a grinder pump but need a grinder pump because of topography um I think to be Equitable to be fair um if the town's going to pay for a grinder pump and it's a core replacement after 10 or 20 years whatever um then uh those that are disadvantaged because of topography ought to get a grinder pump as well I also agree that the folks have already installed grinder pumps we need to get that number um they should be reimbursed for for that if we're going to be fair about it um and in terms of I I I don't mind and I don't know the cost but you can project out for a thousand installations I don't mind a a a number uh fouth approach if you will albe it's another town but an approach that does give some uh some money to those folks that are installing for either for for its installation be it an upgrade in electrical service or a you know a some monies towards the installation I I you know depends on what that number is 1800 1500 2,000 I don't know so I I I'm in I'm in general agreement with what select board member necastro just articulated and I think we really need to have a mind towards equity and towards fairness I I I I place a lot of weight on and I think the reason why we we have our own we were on the Vanguard of installing a wastewater treatment plant here in a Wastewater system here in in in chadam is we really do believe that the reduction of nitrogen is a really important thing for both our fresh and saltwater resources we are surrounded by saltwater we we we no longer have base GS because we've the Eel Grass is no longer there because we've had nitrogen loading in our in our estuaries so it really is about the quality of life and it's about benefiting all for the qu for improvement of the quality of life for all so I think it should be on the tax rate I don't know the number tonight and I don't you know but I think the broad outlines of a policy I could absolutely live with the broad outlines of a policy that I just articulated and I think Echo s board member necastro sentiments as well and I thank you very much for reference this is not uncomplicated This is complicated stuff but we got to keep the overall mission here what are we trying to accomplish trying to clean up nitrogen in our in our Waters both fresh and salt thanks Shireen I I agree this is complicated there's a lot more issues um that we're not even addressing in in trying to figure the the bigger picture out here is important that we work towards water quality it is quality of life but there's another piece to this that I'm just trying to wrap my head around is um what about the folks who simply don't have the means or the ability to borrow money to even comply to um to um an order I mean I we're we're not even talking about that and part of that is you know we talk about you know retaining people into this community um and um you know that's a quality of a life issue for some folks to go deeply in debt if they can go go into debt um you know the simplest facts are there are some people that are really struggling and I just I can't we haven't had that a big enough discussion about that to even um even um answer this question so I I just want to put that out there as part of the conversation and um and look forward to hearing from everybody else thank you Corey this is not an easy topic and I very much appreciate all the input that has been Pro provided for in the you know the water ser committee meetings public meetings I'm sure there's elements of this that we're still missing so I I don't think we're going to be making any hard policies tonight clearly um but I do think we're kind of getting a sense of the direction that we're going to be working on flushing out will that we where will that be where we ultimately Landing uping up good Corey worth a try um so this is a this is a moving conversation um I I think we're heading into Direction worth focusing on if this is exactly where we're going to land I don't know I I have a crystal ball um but there there's still a lot of elements to this to really before we make any hard decisions so I'm very much well open for more conversation on this uh myself yeah Jeff thank you Mike and and Shireen brings up a a great point and I think as part of the policy that we construct should be voice uh procedure a voice for some financing mechanism be it public or private I think to at least research what's out there um then that might be available to homeowners um is part of our responsibility as well not not that we're F we're not financiers we're not a bank however there are other mechanisms out there I think folks need to be aware of yeah I I I don't want to unduly elongate this conversation I I want to say just a couple of things first of all um and thanks again to both groups for uh all of the work and in put background um I I must say that I think that another way of saying it's not uncomplicated is that you've brought us as many issues as answers uh and appreciate that um but I I between what Shireen has to say about a segment of our community that we always have to keep in mind when we're talking about issues like this I I I really do have a hard time with a policy that says you know we'll go negotiate on your behalf and hand you um uh the the the the opportunity to pay you know thousands of dollars in order to comply with an order to hook up to the Sewer which benefits the entire town so that that's fundamental principle number one for me fundamental principle number two is that I it's hard for me to understand and I and I appreciate the comment that you made Jeff um Colby but how it is that we got this whole big plan uh approved back in the day whoever did it and whenever and however and whatever the documentation but somehow you know the whole thing was approved but grinder pumps wasn't part of the the approval program when we have documents that indicate what the what what what the plan was that I'm told and and maybe I'm wrong here and and we can continue that discussion but uh that went to the cape C commission and that were part and parcel of the plan as it was understood and an element to that is let let's keep in mind I mean we can you know it's the old story anybody can create whatever figures uh may be suitable but um this is somewhere between three and 5% just rough rough Justice of the total cost of a plan that we all acknowledge we must have we must Implement and we must pursue and I take uh Miss Gibbs uh comments um to heart that we haven't done it as quickly and it's more expensive than it was when we started I wasn't here I was here but I wasn't part of the starting uh but um that doesn't mean that we can shave off this that or the other because it's gotten more expensive it means that we need to pursue it and and um and and figure out how to do it uh appropriately equitably and then lastly I'll say I'm I'm with I I think U Mr nicastro's um suggestions are constructive and that you know between the principles that govern how we put a policy together again in my view taking account of of what what was a I won't say agreed what was part of the plan back in the day um coupled with what we can responsibly undertake financially I think out of that we we we find a way to to come up with a policy that makes sense to the to the to the community um and obviously we're not going to do that tonight so with that I'm I'm prepared to move on but were you going to say something Jeff next steps yeah next steps next steps yeah I mean next steps well I I I I think we need to get um the um the groups that have presented here tonight and I would include uh you Mr huberman um with input uh to um get the financial staff involved I know we're busy with budget and so forth but begin to actually figure out not what somebody pulls out of the air what the cost is but uh and and I think it's also useful to remember that when we talk about $240 million whatever the number is it's over a period of time as this number is as well so that's that's another factor that really didn't get emphasized this evening so um I don't know does that make sense would it would it make sense to have the economic development committee look at some of the numbers and I I've I've been trying to get that yes I think it does I absolutely agree I I absolutely agree in in in um concert with the groups that are you know have been working on it I'm not trying to displace anybody I'd appreciate your yeah thank you Mr chairman how do you how do you propose that this be done I mean that's I mean the town manager needs some direction here from this board not from you personally necessarily but from this board no I agree I that was that was my opening question um I I I guess I I what I was suggesting was that the the three groups representatives of the three groups uh um present something in the way of the the issues um and the elements not unlike what's in the the SRA presentation um so that the the um the financial staff can project out what what the cost is and and how that factors in as parts of our ongoing sewer financing plans um which I gather have not included this have not contemplated this to date um and and then come back to the select board with um something where we can say yes some number I pick a number $1,000 for X is a hat tip is a notd in the direction of equity on the on the on the point of either ownership of of grinder grinder pumps or servicing grinder pumps or whatever I mean all of the things that have and put on the table in this conversation so you're you're essentially suggesting that the board adopt Mr dyan's proposal I'm always reluctant to have people put words in my mouth and I'm not sure I really understand you're you're you're saying that that that the groups I assume that would be the chairs of the two committees you want to throw in the EDC that's fine too if they can ever meet um and working with the staff um come up with a figure that would be the stipend that would be offered that would be proposed to this board to offer and I guess if I understand what Jeff said earlier he he was going along with everything else that I that I said is that what you're saying I was that's exactly what I said so the purpose of the purpose of this group activity would be limited to coming up with a with a proposed stien that the board can consider is that I'm just trying to understand yeah no I I I I'm okay with that and I think that is essentially what I'm saying except that I can imagine that those three or four chairs would say look uh we have this element this element that element we're we're we're talking about so much money for this so much money for that and so forth which is more of a a menu of Opp of options for us rather than a proposal or a policy that they all agree on I I think that's going to be hard given what we've heard tonight I'm I'm okay with that I just wanted to clarify okay does that does that work for the group here it works for me yes y i I just want to say I'm not I'm open to considering what comes forward I'm not signing on to the installation cost at this point understood or and to for the record I'm not signing on to putting it all on the homeowners and and you know negotiating on their behalf so that's fine and and somewhere in the middle is where I suspect we're going to end up we'll we'll consider it when when they come forward with whatever they come forward with thank you Jill do you have any questions or I do so I I think that at a staff level we can at least put the four corners of a policy together that lays out of the menu of options per se I mean this is something we can work with our Consultants um if you want the working group or or whom ever to weigh in I think if we can have staff do a first draft of of it just to get um the matter documented per se and then um certainly it's probably not a one or two meeting um type of discussion just to lay out the framework of a policy uh for the board and we have plenty of information here I just would like to at least have work with our Consultants to just map out some of the the options hearing everyone very clearly about what are options could be tonight yeah I I don't I I I think that's that's consistent with what we've said here subject to you're putting something on paper notionally and then cons and I don't know who the Consultants are that you're talking about but Consulting with the groups that we've heard from tonight yes we can I'm happy to do that I I know um Vice CH castra just asked if we should set up a working group I I don't know yet it I think I we need to huddle as staff and then certainly whatever meeting we have we can have public meetings or we can have Representatives I just uh we didn't know where you were going to go tonight so now that we have um some direction of of where you're inkling let us put it together and then we might have to report back to you before we convene other groups and and the the one thing I'd like to ask specifically in terms of working that out is that you know the the options take into account that we're talking about out into the future we're not just talking about we're going to spend $15 million as if it were today yeah Dean I was just going to suggest that maybe we ask the town manager to come back to us in a week or two with her recommendation as to how to proceed because I I don't think it would be productive to have two parallel tracks going on the you know the the committee working and then the town manager working with her staff she may come back and say I think I should point a working group that would include resentatives of the I I I don't have any problem with that is anybody else we don't have to resolve it we don't have Tove process fine that's fine that's fine that's fine okay good good thanks thanks again to all much obliged uh moving on here get through all this paper here um next case um Mr Lichfield is here to present um a request for a waiver of Municipal fees for monoy Community Services good afternoon or good evening Mr chair members of the board Bill Lichfield here on behalf of monomo community services in your packet you have uh a staff report and also my letter you developed a poli policy a dozen years ago about waivers for nonprofits which meet certain criteria mono Community Services has been a part of the Town supported by the town and uh doing a lot for the town for the last half century it is now proposing for the first time in 40 years to make some changes to its building on Depot Road and we are asking the town wave Municipal fees I could go on for another hour and a half but I have a sense you might not want me to it's so fascinating give us another 15 anyway uh questions here from the board yes sir I don't have a question I'm I was going to offer a motion to Grant the waiver but I wanted to add some language to the motion which establishes the criteria on which we we've satisfied our ourselves so I moved to Grant a fee waiver to monomo community services for all local fees that may be required for the upcoming proposed renovations to Monomoy Community Services Inc at 1 66 Depot Road based on the unique operational space and coordination of services to be afforded by the project and on monoy community services and chattam children's funds long history of community benefit second any further discussion all those in favor Mr Mets I Mr dykens Miss Davis I Mr Shell says I and Mr necastro hi thank you very much thank you very much Bill okay uh next is uh the encroachment issue I think that's to you Jill it is thank you Mr chair so as you know the town has a general bylaw about roadside obstructions and that was established in 2015 and since then the select board or Board of Selectmen at that time implemented a policy for Town encroachments on encroachments on Town property over the years we've had a few occasions where we've been notified about a Butters uh encroaching on Town property or some more recently where there was some roadside OB obstructions and when we were looking into what the options could be for the town for enforcement we found that we might be a little limited with the policy that the board had adopted back in 2019 either to have the encroachment remain or for the restoration of the encroachment if it is indeed removed so um I we were working on this before Co and More in more recing uh 2022 uh but we didn't have really a good result to um provide an opportunity for a solution to property owners who may or may not have been aware that they were encroaching so what we've done is um we've provided the policy and the packet with suggested language for amendments to provide some flexibility and discretion to the town departments Who oversee the area of the encroachment whether it's a roadside obstruction or for instance AC crunching a town property such as a park or the golf course and in it it provides some flexibility but also introduces the concept of a license to use or enter real property and you've seen similar licenses but not for an ongoing purpose so we we've give a license to someone who needed to access Town property to install a generator or we've had licenses issued for persons who wanted to store um some fishing gear on Town property and and certainly that was a license to use so what we've asked Town Council to review and provide for us is the suggested license on the occasion that the select board would indeed allow for the encroachment U before bringing this to you I consulted with Town Council and it brought in also uh chair shell and vice chair nicastro just to talk about the policy um and the license that could be offered as a solution and that's in your packet as well so I think if the board is amendable to amending the policy as well is amendable to the concept of a license then I can identify and it's just a few properties uh for the encroachment um potential resolutions to provide to the select board via license and I've we've had Direct contact with uh properties encroaching um the golf course but not um I didn't want to get into detail but it isn't obstructing the play it's basically um on a non-play area of the golf course and that was brought to us to the golf advisory committee so um what we have here again is the the license that Kathy has I'm sorry the a policy Kathy has on the screen the license that um we I had previewed uh with um chair shell as well as Vice chairman NE Castro including uh staff Amy Hal and Rob uh failey from our DPW department and um Wanted to initiate the discussion and then for the details I can come back at a future meeting to provide the exact cases and and what has been discussed with the residents thoughts Jeff well knowing that the best legal Minds in the world have taken a look at this uh and have signed off on both the the changes to the policy and the license itself I would move approval I'll second it yeah Dean go ahead yeah yeah thank you Mr chairman um I I I certainly support approval of of the um policy change um we we uh as you and I discussed with Jill when we met we have encroachments all over town and from time to time they're going to come up um and we had to have something in place to deal with it that is um amicable and um and I think most Property Owners would be very accommodating so um I I do want I just wanted to ask um does Council on on the line you just uh on the document the license document itself just a couple of things and really typos um the the town of chadam is referred to as that town but at at one place um in the document um a third of the way down on the first page it refers to the Lor so we might might want to clarify that the town is the Lor um and the only other substantive question on that document is um in paragraph 10 under indemnification where there's a hold homeless Clause um protecting the town does the term Town include the town's officers employees staff boards committees and so forth do we need to expand that language somehow um the only other comment I make has nothing to do with this issue directly but last week we had some conversation about the hedges on um barcliff Avenue and I'm looking at uh the B the bylaw that's in the packet 20816 paragraph a says no such roadside obstruction shall be permitted on any such premises if it obstructs the view of motorists on such streets so that's something that you going to have Town Council look at and maybe this provides the answer to that question thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr chair so I wanted to introduce Town Council Elizabeth Liz Liden uh she's with us she's conducted a review of the license just in addition to um Dean's comments one on the other um comments that Liz had introduced was that this is this license is not transferable so that was an important point to make but certainly Liz is here to answer any questions yeah I I I I don't at the moment have a question um I I I do have uh a couple of comments whether they're afterthoughts or I missed it or whatever but and they're not all that significant but I do want to get them on the record here this evening first of all with respect to the uh policy I it's a I I'll express it as a question although I I think that the I have a thought as to what the answer is um if you look at the section entitled appeal the last sentence that we're proposing to add in the event the select board does not respond to the appeal within 30 days such appeal will be deemed to uh shall be deemed denied I don't have a problem with all determinations of the select board on any appeals shall be final I I just think that if if it's nothing more than and by the way we haven't well good we haven't lost uh internet um I I I think it's a little bit abrupt to say that we we can just ignore it and it goes away we don't necessarily have to treat it substantively but I I would feel better if any appeal comes to us and we decide that we're not going to entertain it as opposed to simply not just ignoring it um I don't know how other people feel about that I I I mean we're not the Supreme Court so I I I think we In fairness to Property Owners uh we we probably ought to at least look at what the issues that is that they've brought in front of us and we can say look we're not going to entertain that thoughts I'm okay with that I you'll have to come up with some language I I don't know how you phrase it well I I don't know I I I might be tempted just simply to take that out yeah we lived without it before not responding so they have to they have to make the appeal within 30 days yeah okay and then we can go on forever with it as we have done with them well it with other we shouldn't do that we should not no but I'm saying it's it's in our discretion that's fine I would take the sentence out then on on the on the licence uh and these really are you for Liz for you Liz um on page two I I wonder if we shouldn't say at the top conduct of the lensey as opposed to the license in the heading paragraph 7 um and then in the risk of loss section um where we we say um we talk about they they're using and occupying the licensed area at their own risk um and the town should not be liable I ra rather than uh the qualifier at the end of the Clause pursuant to the license I would say for any reason so um two persons entering the licensed area for any reason and then at the end of the at the end of that paragraph same thing I would change pursuant to the license to for any reason and that's all I have and I will take your advice as to the wisdom of those suggestions we have a motion in a second on the table any further discussion where was your your final point where were that final um for any reason inserted does the public opportunity to that was paragraph eight at the end of that sentence is that right on the license yeah yes there are two places where it says pursuant to the license and I'm suggesting we say for any reason um that was eight Mike what was the other what's the other number the the title of seven changed the word license to licy yep um I I I suspect those comments that you want to make are from people who have specific cases that have been the subject of discussion am I right is this for this particular license is that what you're asking no I'm sorry Liz yeah Liz I'm I'm sorry I was I there are people in room who want to comment and I'm I'm going to entertain it you've been here all night please make it brief but go ahead and make your comment my name is Sue Mei um I live at 174 Horizon Drive I'm the president of great Hill Estate Association we had a situation this Summer that I feel uh helped push uh the changes to this rule I know you said you were working on it but we had a neighborhood situation um that caused the DPW um uh had to come out uh there were two or three people uh who had a dispute uh following that dispute 11 people on One Street were uh sent encroachment letters um and so out of the whole town only 11 people have been served these encroachment letters we feel that this is unfair uh the point that you were just raising um about the um 30 days it's 30 days from the time that the letter is sent so we have residents who live outside in other towns or other states it's not very much time we don't think that it's fair to not have a response we don't have a way to appeal if we appeal and it goes to the select board and um you don't respond it says in here there's no appeal um so we we think that that should be changed I agree with what you were saying when you were looking at that um and we don't think that the uh policy is being um evenly handled across the town we have residents that have been serve these encroachment letters that have Granite um pavers that are everywhere in the town and they're being asked to remove those it makes no sense so we think that um we we only found out about this uh on Friday we haven't had a chance to get all of our uh people who were serve the uh encroachment letters to respond to this we have somebody who's very involved who is away so she can't even be here to speak uh we'd like to ask you to post popone any decision so we have a chance to see what the costs for insurance are going to be uh in the wording it says survey we want to see um what kind of costs are involved in this whole thing um so thank you and we have other people who are going to speak well I I I tell you what yeah I and I'm going to ask the town manager to correct me if I'm wrong what I'm understanding and and I am somewhat I think Dean and I are familiar at least with um the situation you're describing okay I think the proposal was that we would address as a general matter the proposed changes in the policy and the form of agreement that would then be the subject of specific discussions with property owners that have an encroachment issue but that we would defer all of the specific cases including the the ones on great Hill to a future date and now have I got that right that's correct otherwise if we didn't have the amendments to the policy or the license agreement the enforcement mechanism would be removal so what we're trying to do is to find some kind of solution for residents um who have been notified that there is a there is either an obstruction or encroachment so this is a work in process no absolutely we agree that a license uh system makes a lot of sense because otherwise it's pretty absolute uh and there's no way really to um have uh what you said anyway go ahead somebody else good evening I'm Annie Holton from 215 North Skyline Drive uh I believe a policy should be written in a way that it can answer basic questions about the policy and I have a couple of basic questions the policy list what it does not want on the 10 feet of town-owned property on North Skyline Drive what does the town of chadam want on those 10 feet of town own property on our Skyline tribe under policy it states the encroaching party will be required to restore the land to its original condition what does the town of chadam consider the original condition of the property in my case I unwittingly replaced a level two violation of decades old Ivy and Scruffy evergreen shrubs with another level two violation of hydrangeas and Roses what would be the original condition of the town-owned property at 215 North Skyline Drive thank you thank you very much I I I I want to reemphasize these are specifics that we will take up at the time that we address the the Appeals that I I understand are pending so it I appr be brief um I will be brief uh Robert Nelson of 57 North Skyline Drive in my case it's pavers uh when my wife and I decided that we needed to repair our driveway because there were roots and stuff growing under there we drove all over chadam we took a look at it but all the solutions that other people had there were papers everywhere there are shells there are Pebbles there's Asel so I started to go over the encroachment town uh property policy pretty deeply so I just have some basic questions to ask in the definition uh taking any actions that limit access to the property papers can't do that I'll just go through them quickly for you uh again as was just said required to restore land to the original condition what was the original condition classifications uh the use of the word incursion is a ridiculous word to be used in a policy like this incursion is a forceful entry into some area it's used in Warfare um alteration of uh public land so here's an interesting thing the piece of property that the town claims this 10 ft connects the road to the driveway so I'm just going to call that piece of land the connector what is an acceptable connector is it asphalt but asphalt's not natural condition is it a p that's perfectly flat and doesn't impair any road access or walking or anything else we've had jobs done on our our house town people have come and done inspections they've walked over these papers and they have never found anything wrong with this and then when we take a look at so excuse me also level one encroachments which do not reach level two or level three criteria that's pretty subjective and who makes that decision what a level one is uh so I appreciate that you're trying to get this pie piece of it through but my last statement will be this is a shaky Foundation to write more verbiage to I think that we should table this until this is cleaned up with better definitions and then move forward with it we don't want to just keep adding and this gets stuck down in a whole bunch of paper where somebody one day goes oh look at that and it creates a whole another mess thank you very much for your time thank you yes sir again please be brief I I want to reemphasize we are trying to adopt a general policy that will give us flexibility to deal with all the variations of difficult problems where there is an encroachment that we cannot ignore understand Juris suance great Hill 35 Horizon Drive um I um I just have a comment that I feel is totally unrealistic when it says if any roadside obstruction violation hereby has not been corrected within 7 days I think that is totally unrealistic have you ever tried contacting a contractor to come out to do any work oh yeah I can come out or three or four weeks from now and to correct a PVE problem that has been put in cement you expect him to fix that problem in seven days I think that is totally unrealistic just the same as the 30 days that you have that if you do not respond that that automatically is that the the uh uh party is guilty I think that is totally unacceptable either I think people need to use some common sense thank you thank you very much yes ma'am um my name is Jennifer oon and I just have a quick comment I'm wondering how in if this uh policy is implemented how it will be enforced for instance will there be a notification generally to the town that this is a new policy and that everyone should be aware of how how will that information be be gotten to everybody will there be some kind of a survey of all the properties in town that will see if they are in compliance and not violating the policy and also um will they will the respon will will the town only respond if there are complaints against a particular property or would this be a townwide um project that would be to police not police to um identify the properties that are administer administer yes that would be in violation thank you Jill do you want to address that uh as the policy's been in place since 2019 um for staff it's been passive enforcement so if we've encountered the encroachment driving by or if it's you know on a Town property such just the park or or in our day-to-day duties we have then notified uh people of the encroachment uh if it's a roadway and roadside obstructions the board took this very seriously with um when the bylaw was first uh taken to town meaning and implemented so um some cases were we're we're responding to complaints uh by motorists or others walking on the roadways or other time it's observed by Town staff or the police department so uh at with this amendment to the policy if approved by the SL board we can certainly now have the the mechanism of the main sheet where we can get the word out again for that for the updated policy but as we all are aware there's probably encroachments all over the place in town and so um the roadside obstructions are probably the most visible because if they're impairing the line of sight or any kind of safety issue with a motorist or a pedestrian or a bicyclist uh we need to notify the the property owner as soon as possible and and certainly understand not everyone understands what the roadway withd or what a rideway is and so that's an education campaign that we can work on thank you um do we have a motion we have a motion in a second yeah we have a motion in a second can I just ask please what the what the motion was again the motion was to approve the the with the the the policy Ed that we gave the policy and the and the license and the form of a license and and I realize that's on the table uh I just wanted I'm trying to address a generic concern that was voiced by one of the one of the speakers um do we want to consider enlarging the 30-day um appeal period to 60 days to accommodate folks that are out of town it is certified mail and you typically do start the the the the period from the date of mailing when you send something certified I don't have an issue with that I think that's fine I don't have an issue with that at all just suest I I don't have an issue do we have any issue with that from a sort of a diligence legal safety point of view I mean because the the the logic of an appeal I take it stays whatever action is is is required yes so if it's a I mean I I can't imagine what it would be but something that is actually a threat to the safety of the roadway for example somebody could delay any action for 60 days I think there's a provision somewhere in either document either of these documents that will authorizes the town to take immediate action if there's a public safety uh get depending on the severity of the encroachment of the obstruction yes uh Mr Lichfield very briefly Mr chairman the bylaw is already in place in regard to roadside obstructions so that that's not part of the 30 or 60-day issue right the the selectman's policy has the 30 or 60-day question I'm not taking I don't have any position on that but bylaw on roadside obstruction has been in place for decades it's not adequately or consistently enforced but that's another problem I I'll I'll defer to the wisdom of the board here on this 3060 you want to make it 45 I would I would stay with 60 you know I've been on the board 10 years that's fine I I'm fine so we'll amend the the policy to to um require 60 days um from the notice to appeal okay would you like me to carve out a ex exception for emergencies I thought there was one I yeah I I I I I actually thought there was as well it does have that level three encroachment that potential or immediate safety health or other hazardous condition or permanent environmental damage um will be in all cases of level three encroachments the police and fire departments will be immediately notified by the town manager for mitigating action I think it could be more explicit in the in the appeals language yeah Corey just just uh one of the previous speakers made reference of the 7-Day uh you know remediation of the issue um just thoughts on that is that that's in the bylaw it's in the bylaw it's not in the policy4 it's part of our bylaw right now that exists in the book's done okay it's already done was adopted by town meeting in 2000 yeah good whenever yeah I couldn't find the reference in the policy 2015 I I I guess I I'm inclined to if we're going to go to 60 I I don't know that that I mean in spite of my hypothetical I I would be part of what's going on here is we're trying to legislate for every case Under the Sun you can't do that you have to rely on the people who are administering the policy to do it consistent with the intent and purpose of the policy and I I I would be inclined to say all right give them 60 days but rely on the administrator the administ ation of the policy uh to be sensible in the specific cases and leave it at that and I if I might and I think you know having a license is is a is a smart way to go yeah to provide some relief for those folks that feel that's enforced many of these virtually I would bet you a lot 90% whatever the number is many of these cases appr are going to get resolved with a license so okay would agree motion second Mr Mets I uh Mr Dyk hi Miss Davis Mr Shell says I and Mr necastro I thank you and thank you for those comments thank you um next case uh special one day alcohol licenses uh Ms Allard are you online for the cap cot commercial Fisherman's Alliance I as them to delay Jen Allard are you struggling to get online well I'll tell you what we'll give you an opportunity to get online and we'll move to the Holiday Stroll proposals first uh chat and paint and Hardware from 5:00 p.m. to 900 p.m. at 6:24 Main Street Mr Fox are you with us Mr Fox is not here please uh come to the either the microphone or the Pod this one or I one take your choice okay Mr Fox wasn't able to get here this evening um Matt Higgins is assistant manager I'm just an employee um but could you give us your name sir I'm sorry would you identify Yourself by name David thank you um and you know our application is the same as it was last year um you know for one day we will have um people at both entrances actually the three entrances there were be people at all of those entrances to make sure no alcoholic beverages go outside of the building Mr Higgins and I uh primarily Mr Higgins runs the distribution of alcoholic beverage um nobody underage get served um and we just keep an eye on the on it there are approximately eight staff members in the building at during that event um that are both working at and making sure that things run smoothly um which includes a parking lot okay questions no I'm going to make a motion please I move to Grant a special one-day alcohol license to Paul Fox of chadam paint and hardware for H the Holiday Stroll on Friday December 13th 2024 from 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. at 624 Main Street chadam second all those in favor Mr nicastro I have fun I uh Mr matters I thank you very much you very much um next Sundance clothing from 10 am to 11:00 p.m. uh 497 Main Street and I'm told that M cabal or cabal may be online but not for sure we have Chelsea forger on oh yes hello hello hi there welcome hi thank you um yes so I'm here on behalf of April cabal I'm one of the managers of Sundance um and just like the gentleman from Chad and Payton Hardware said um kind of sounds just like what he was saying we're going to have every single employee that works with us is working that night we will have someone by our front door which is the only means of in and out for the public um we'll have someone of course serving the alcohol not to underage people it will not be self-served and yeah we did it last year and it worked out really well and we had a guy standing by the door watching who was coming in and out and people had to finish what they were served in our store before they were allowed to walk out questions Jeff yeah I'll move uh to Grant a special one day alcohol license to April carbal of sundance's clothing for the Holiday Stroll on Friday December 13th 2024 and there is a recommendation here from our licensing agent that the hours be from 12:00 noon to 10 p.m. and this is something we've done before and I'm comfortable recom moving that I so from 12: to 12:00 noon to 10 P at 497 Main Street chadam 12 12 to 10 12 noon 12 noon to 10 p.m. y okay thank you um yeah okay we have motion section second uh all those in favor Mr necastro I Mr Shell says I Miss Davis I uh Mr Dy and Mr Mets okay Forest Beach designer gold Smiths from 5:00 p.m. to 900 p.m. at 436 Main Street that's right I'm Steve wle I hope you can all hear me we can thank you welcome okay good okay thank you um it's our uh 30th Christmas on Main Street this year and uh as such we thought we would like to hand out a little bit of champagne um we have a very small space as you've probably viewed the diagram it's about 200 square ft inside um it's the four of us and uh I I do have a a bouncer that'll be watching the door um uh so anyway um we just like to spread a little holiday cheer and uh not get too carried away and just just cater to adults only so Steve uh just a question and Mike has stepped away um and I appreciate you talked about um keeping people um Honest by the door do do you have um I'm just looking at the application there was this a section uh asking for a full description of the event but including how how the service of alcohol will be controlled but do you have a comment on how you would make sure miners don't get it that so what what what precautions are you going to take it's it you know probably be myself or my wife uh we have a little corner In in the back of the store and um you know we I guess you would consider our bar being our showcases um you know basically U in our experience and other other years um you know we don't get too many people we know them all and uh it's very easy to keep tabs on everybody okay that's um does it answer your question yeah I think so I concerned about you know Miners and so forth so it sounds like you've got that well in hand do I hear a motion I'm sorry so moved uh yes I moved to Grant a special one day alcohol license to Steve wle a forest Beach designer Goldsmith for theol scroll on Friday December 13th 2024 from 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. at 4:36 Main Street chap here's a second second all right uh any discussion Mr Mets hi Mr Dyk hi M Davis Hi Mr necastro says I four to zero thank you thank you Steve thank you very much okay the next item is the seasonal consider requests for extensions of seasonal I'm sorry do we have someone else is genal back on or Bridget Krug this is the meet the fleet is there anybody we've granted this before yes and it's coming up for next week this is your last meeting before the event don't we have some rule where you have to be here and we can wave it though she was made aware that someone did need to be present I have emailed her seeing if she or someone can get online but I have if we don't vote tonight they can't do it yeah go ahead we can wave it I'm sorry that's yeah philosophy behind this is sorry the philosophy behind that rule was to kind of give us some bels and suspenders of reassurance that proper proper attention was handled in the matter of stuff this part's been for us been numerous times this is a usual uh request for this for the board so I think discretion and waving this is something we could definitely consider I wouldn't have a problem with it just add a question to to Kathy or or shaa do does the policy expressly talk about a waiver in which case we would want to take a vote that we're going to wave this otherwise we'll just vote to approve it the policy uh provides a waiver for the 30-day application so that's but not for the appearance of the person no okay well I think Mr mets has articulated a a reasonable course of action for the board to take considering past experience with this particular program well and I I I don't know what um you know success or efforts there have have have been undertaken here to to reach her I my recollection is the last time we went through this with her she could not get on whether that was our fault or hers is different but there's no difference she had technical difficulties exactly so I I'm inclined to go along with Mr Matter's suggestion as well as long as we send them a note to remind them to do their due diligence to be here the next time yeah yeah so no need for a waiver uh hold on bear with me how about I'm I'm going to take a shot at this one so I moved to Grant a special one-day alcohol permit to Bridget crew of the cap cut commercial Fisherman's Alliance for the meet the fleet event being held on Tuesday November 19th 2024 from 5: p.m. to 7:00 p.m. at 1566 Main Street chadam and that confirmation of the review of the select board be provided to town manager's office um that we reviewed this and approved it according to the Pres the presented documents I'll second I'll say yeah go ahead sorry um okay any further discussion Mr matters I Mr Dyan hi Miss Davis Hi Mr Shell says I Mr necastro hi good okay um requests for extensions of seasonal liquor licenses shaa you're back on please hi yes shaa NE uh licensing agent this is um pretty much an administrative um exercise that we go through each year the um local alcoholic beverag beverages regulations um provide that um any establishment that has a seasonal license that wishes to extend must request so in writing um as allowed through Mass General law so we've had um we have five that are requesting extensions either through December 31st or through January 15th which is the last day allowable um under state law yeah go ahead codo is new to us Coto is new and anticipating that the board May question an extension for a licy that has not yet opened I did reach out to them um and they have said that they are actively working through their pre-opening preparations um product ordering inventory staff hiring training coordinating with vendors and suppliers uh they say they understand the board's consideration of extending a license for an unopened establishment requires additional assurances and their team is committed to ensuring all necessary groundwork is properly completed before opening so does that mean uh they they are aiming to try to open before the 15th of January that's what they're indicating okay and we do have experience with the ownership I I don't mean to jump yeah no we do yes yes does anybody want to make a motion uh Mr chairman I move to approve the extensions of seasonal liquor licenses for 539 Main Street beastro LLC via beastro through December 31st 2024 codo through January 15 2025 the chadam cut through January 15 2025 the Captain's Table through January 15 2025 and chadam sunrise through January 15 2025 all those in favor Mr necastro hi Mr Shell says I Miss Davis hi uh Mr dkin hi and Mr Mets I thank you thank you thanks shaa um okay um we have um two appointments we have one open alternative seat alternate seat on the board of health we have two candidates Mr Ron Weiser whom we interviewed on October 29 and uh Joanna kale whom we interviewed this evening um so I think we have to pick between those two as I understand it is that we we make a nominations and excuse me uh we we entertain nominations come on yeah no I that that's just a commentary that one seat two people um so I will accept nominations for that open alternate seat at the Board of Health Mr chair yes um I move to appoint Joanna kale as an alternate member of the Board of Health until June 30th 2025 unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed second do I hear any other nominations Mr chair I nominate Ron W wiser wiser for um for the open alternate seat um on the board of held until June 30 2025 orless soon revoked or his successor is appointed I'll second that okay um can we just discuss for a moment pleas I I like both of these candidates me too yep um we can only appoint one um is it open to us to appoint one of them and to designate the other as an adviser to the committee so they because they both seem interested in in the Board of Health and give them an opportunity give them some sort of status to recognize their their interest in serving just an idea yeah go ahead Jeff well I I yeah I mean if that's that's okay I I agree I like both the candidates um uh Board of Health might have something to say about it but if they I think both candidates are viable and have great input U and be helpful to the Board of Health would add value but I don't know legally where we stand that's all I defer to the legal beagles I I'd like to have a further discussion about something like that as far as what we're looking for in in somebody that would be an advisor I think what's you know we have a very qualified Board of Health but I think what's lacking in that is the community connection that um that we need so so dearly that that there is a a a board that sits and makes Health decisions for our community that has their finger on the pulse of the community and I think there is a little bit of a disconnect so if I was thinking of what kind of advisory person I'd want to put in place that would be somebody who has that Community Connection um not to say that both of them are not extremely qualified but we have extremely qualified folks on the committee and you know that's so I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend that and if I might as well you might have others in the community should we desire an Advisory board for the Board of Health there might be many others in town that would be interested as well we have a lot of qualified a lot of talented people yeah um I mean I I yeah we didn't have two seats open well um so I yeah I I must say I'm I am torn here I I was impressed by Mr wiser he had great qualifications but I'm also um and I know her a little bit I I I think Joanna kale is um somebody who will be a little bit of New Blood fresh um has the kind of enthusiasm that somebody who's getting into it uh can bring to the party and I I think you know uh to some extent would have maybe not the knowledge of the community but the empathy for the community uh that that is a little bit What I Hear Shireen talking about so it is truly a hopson's choice however anything else no perhaps we could discuss when we have this big committee session that you all wanted um the um this the concept of advisers to committees I would hate to turn someone away and then a year from now we have an opening and they feel like they were rejected and it's nice to keep people in the camp that's all I I agree with you and I think that we could send a lovely letter to say please yeah mind that you know that's all yeah that we are it was a tough choice we haven't voted yet though both yes yes they have been all right anything else before we vote um Mr nastro Ron Weiser uh Mr Shell says Joanna kale uh if you're turning to me Joanna kale I'm sorry that's okay forgive me uh Mr dykins Ron Weiser and Mr matters Ron Weiser okay so um Mr uh Weiser is the the uh selection and we need to address M kale can we maybe see a draft of a letter or something that that um Kathy's the expert about for writing okay gracious and and very accomplished um motion to adjourn second we have one more one more oh we do oh yeah sorry believe me I I almost invited it so um we we need to nominate uh appoint uh a member of the chattam maharit Wastewater uh IMA Advisory Board um Mr chairman before you Nom accept nominations may just make a comment because we heard two there were yeah there were two and and um elain Gibbs raised some questions some of which are really um operational question questions that I think staff can answer about the the workings of this project um and we've had um one one person on this board we used to have two Larry Samson was the who was the chair of the water and sewer committee and he went on there along with Mr whitcom some years ago and several of us were on the board and we voted them in and I I have no problem with either candidate I wasn't aware until I saw the packet that that was coming up um with Mr Battis his name and I think he'd be great he's the vice chair of the water and sewer committee but uh I guess it would be helpful if we could just have it um indicated how how this came about so answer to the question that she asked I would like that I I have no problem with proceeding but anyway I don't know if there were any other people in interested historically no one has been interested in serving on this and it doesn't meet very often but it is a public meeting I believe it is a public meeting we um I reached out to uh Jeff Colby we reached out to Jeff Colby and Bruce bardis to see if they were interested in serving Larry Samson was the chair of the water and sewer advisory committee and that provided really great continuity um so that was a direct solicitation to those two um Bruce had had uh responded that he would like to participate and there hasn't been many meetings so we we had meetings um for the board to First adopt the intermunicipal agreement and then um there took some time for Harwich to get their plan approved and so forth and the last meeting that we had was back in 2021 when we were asked to consider the First Amendment to the IMA and essentially that um somehow stretched out or elongated the payments by harwi to the town hadam for which the select board had approved so we've received two payments already um the last one that just came in was um June oh actually so we we've received three so June 19 2024 was 1.5 million prior to that it was January 1.5 million and then FY 2018 was 2.65 the total amount that we would receive from them is uh 6,765 th000 so we still have one more left in June of 2026 the reason why uh this has come before you at this time is that um harwitch has also had some transition in their uh Town employees as well as the members of the board and we thought it'd be a good opportunity to get together at least to have a conversation about the future uh of their East hardwich connections and just an overall update for the two boards but I can say is that we the technical SCA staff both hardwich and chadam are in contact with each other so it's not that there's been no contact but I thought it's important to to resume the meetings of the board and the IMA is posted on our website or accessible from our through our website it is and so and and if for some reason it's it's not apparent we can certainly make it um more apparent off of the main page any upcoming meetings will be posted um as all all as as case with all other committees and Boards yes and and we had virtual meetings before but any any when we've met in person it's been in the small meeting room of the annex so it perfectly accommodates any public participation thank you okay I interruped you thought you were about to introduce this well no I was simply going to say um I'll invite a motion um to um appoint one of the two I guess we have there are two positions so and M Mr wham's been on the board for a while I Mo I'll make a joint motion I move to appoint Bruce bardis as a member of the chadam har Wastewater IMA Advisory Board until June 30th 2027 unless soon revoked or a successor is appointed and to reappoint David whitcom as a member of the chadam harch Wastewater IMA Advisory Board until June 30th 2027 unless sooner revoked or a successor was appointed second all those in favor Mr necastro I uh Mr Shell says I Miss Davis I uh Mr dykens and Mr Mets I okay motion to turn second all those in favor uh Mr Mets I uh Mr Dyk hi uh Miss Davis Hi and Mr Shell says I Mr nicastro hi we are adjourned at 8:29 yeah I know he was