##VIDEO ID:xgxTEsg88yA## e e e e e e e e e e good afternoon uh this is the town of Chad and planning board working session meeting on December 9th 2024 at 4M please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly thereafter for scheduled and On Demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if any if anyone else is according the meeting please notify the chair I don't see anybody president uh pursuant to the Govern Governor Hy's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the O open meeting law General Law chapter 3A section 20 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chadam planning board is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the in the order our reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 1508 945 4410 conference ID 956 519 021 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chadam TV formerly channel 18 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for Real Time access we will post a a record a record of the meeting on the town's website as soon as possible I'd like to begin with the road call uh Katherine H present uh Warren chain Warren chain present Bob warsha B CH present Charlene Greenhall Charlene greenhous present Frank Shear present Bob dubis Bob dubis here and arts brew and I'm president uh okay this is uh a word Workshop session on the west chadam neighborhood and Center uh and mostly this is going to be a discussion with the Public Public Works director on the infrastructure discussion I would just like to um let the board members know that we have a five o' meeting um after this we'll need they'll uh the crew will need a little bit of time to shift over from the four 4:00 to the 5:00 so we like to cut this off about 3:45 if 4 445 I did that last week to 4:45 and um if we get into discussion that's fine we can continue that at uh toward the end of the 5:00 meeting so um I'd like to uh introduce of course you all probably know Rob Farley our DBW director drafted the memo that was was sent to us um he doesn't have any introductory comments but the whole reason for him to be here is to answer questions I counted uh eight or nine questions that the board has last board members had last time uh that related to infrastructure so probably be worthwhile just to go through those again just so that we can get on the record what kind of a um response we have on them and see which direction we want to go in um I'll begin with you Catherine if you actually didn't get the you didn't no I didn't okay then we'll start with Warren and we'll get get back to Catherine then sorry sorry about that are there copies of the DPW memo I thought that this had given sorry DPW had um provided an email at the last meeting um I did not know you were looking for copies of it to be honest with you um I had put it into a memo from DPW just in that format um I didn't realize that you were going so it was what was in the packets the last meeting you're heading on there notes from okay yeah okay okay well then um I think I'll pass I'll see if I can pull up the email thank okay I can go upstairs and get copies if you want me to that might be helpful okay I start out with a go question so so it seems like we just didn't have your memo at hand but how would you like to just give us a brief summary of of the main points that you've concluded um as you know as I understand it you looked at the buildout analysis that was done for us by um the BSC group and they looked at two scenarios for us um 12 units per residential units per acre and eight units residential units per acre there was previously an infrastructure analysis done based on the buildout analysis done in 2014 but in the context of the route 28 visioning study done by Cape Cod Commission which presumed four resid ential units per acre and I understand that was done by Dr Bob duncanson so just that that's sort of the Baseline we're dealing with can you let us know what conclusions you've come to Sure uh again thank you for having me Rob failey Public Works director thank you so we did uh we primarily looked at the eight Adu Adu units we didn't we didn't dive into the 12 we wanted to see if eight was going to push us over any thresholds and if it wasn't then would have dived into the 12 but so we did look at the eight Adu units um the sewer gravity which is under you know Main Street in that section um shouldn't have a problem with capacity in that area as regarding the pipe sizing um okay Barnhill Road Pump Station which is at the corner of Barnhill and Harding's Beach Road that is um we looked at eight and then we when knocked it down to five just to give us a good kind of Baseline and um we are we'd have really have to do a tighter analysis we're really close um we may be able to accommodate that under current conditions but it may limit us for future development in that area so when you say we're really close we're really close to five or really close I I think it could accommodate both but we'd have to crunch the numbers a little bit closer I think we could accommodate eight but then again we have to look at what future potential buildout is for for sewer flowing to the barn hill neighboring areas including the 40b that's on the proposed for the Buckley property as well as the potential increased residential density that the board would like to consider for what we're calling the a transition zone or buffer zone to the east of West chadam Neighborhood Center we'd like to consider also doing some rezoning that would allow for greater residential density there so based on what I've just said um um and what about is there another Pump Station that comes into play there is it's the George Ryder Road Pump Station so really if you look at the on Route 28 the medical building everything from there and West goes up to George Ryder Road Pump Station everything east of there goes down to the in that general area it goes down to the barn hill Pump Station so the George Ryder Road pump station is a little bit more problematic um we would be exceeding even at five we would be exceeding um its its pumping capacity but I don't want to you know this is not a a detriment you know this is something where uh those pump stations are 12 years old the design life is 20 years we will have to you know a lot of times those pumps stay in service much longer than that it's just what their you know uh design life is um full development full buildout likely won't happen over overnight no um so there is an opportunity for when properties get developed an additional you know waste water is being pumped to these pump stations thank you we can upgrade them at those times but it's we just wanted to I just wanted to lay it out for you that you know it would be a a case where we would have to increase the size of the pumps in those pump stations doesn't mean we would have to renovate the size of those pump stations it's just the the pumping capability of the of those pumps that we have in there now okay so right now so could you just repeat for me uh what goes to the George Ryder Road Pump Station so from the medical building on Route 28 West West so that's really most that's a lot of it's not all you know it's not when we get down to chapoy is like Sam Rider Road it's not that far but we do both of those pump stations the Georg Ryder Road Pump Station and the barn hill Road Pump Station both pump to the Huckleberry Pump Station which is just outside of the wpcf okay those may impact that pump station as well as we add additional flow it has capacity now and a lot of that sewer we built in the west chadam area hasn't been built out all the way yet so there is capacity but as properties get developed an additional flow is introduced that's where we really have to start looking at what the cap sorry the capability of our pump stations are okay okay so what I'm hearing is yes some upgrade is needed in the pump stations to accommodate even five units per acre or eight units per acre yeah not so much at Barnhill immediately right but more more so at George Ryder Road okay great um I'm sure I'm going to have more questions but I think Mr chair we we could continue with laen Shane or if you would like to um yes you've already answered one of my questions that um which was really what was the design life of what's out there and you know what the normal process would be clearly uh the pumps that are out there halfway through their useful life their planned life so in another 10 or 12 15 years you would be planning to replace them anyway that's correct um and if they had to put in larger pumps does that mean just changing the pump or do you have to build a whole new pump station because it won't fit for example no it would it would pretty much much be just the the pump itself I mean we're still talking uh probably half a million dollars in today's dollars um to replace a pump um a pump station you know the full blown out station especially George ryer and um barn hill they're they're actually buildings that are there um that they may be like in the order of $2 million if we were to replace those uh fully but it's really just the pump in that's in the wet well okay and again you would be planning to have to replace the pump like for like even if there were no increase in in flow it it would be on our radar yes so and the incremental cost of increasing the size of the pump is material or um you know the the pump itself maybe in the 150 to $200,000 range but then it has to be you know new electric new skate programming you know oh but I mean a larger pump versus replacing the same size pump right it would be a larger pump but incremental cost you know not a tremendous amount of difference would the would there be an I think what forgive me for interrupting but would there be an increase in cost because we're doing a larger pump rather than just replacing with the same size yes there would be there would be do you have a ballpark no I I would say probably in the 50 to $75,000 range okay and in um but none of that electric or skada stuff you know any of that equipment would be reusable it would all have to be new okay and it could you clarify for me as whether or not not in developing response to our questions um you were able to consider the impact of the 40b developments on what is it 137 or 134 and uh the Buckley properties because that's a whole lot of houses that are going to be much sooner probably than ever would come about as a result of our zoning changes we we had looked at those previously uh especially the one at 137 just because the Meeting House Road pump station is a brand new pump station it's not even in service yet um but it that has uh a lot of capacity there's a lot of flow that would go to The Meeting House Road Pump Station um the addition of the buck Buckley property I'm not sure if that one I'm not sure if that one flows to Barn Hill or not I don't have that on my map I think it does though it's just west of just east of dunin donuts correct yeah so that one would flow to to Barn Hill so yeah so there is limit capacity uh for for growth yeah all right uh thank you very much um I guess I was going to go back to the beginning with the design of the entire sewer system presumably there was an assumption about capacity that would be required over some period of years um and that would have to have assumed some sort of a buildout from what was done when the initial planning and design of the whole system was done and it did seem a little surprising to me that merely by um um adding a few hundred houses or living units bedrooms are really the question that we were hoping to get a handle on how many bedrooms are we talking about because that's really the way people tend to look at flow I think here in terms of the uh the health department um that it would be such a large increase over what might have been planned when the initial design of the sewer system was put in place um has something changed materially in terms of the way the whole system would have been designed no I mean the system was originally um looked at at capacity wise back in 2009 uh every time we develop a project you know we we look at the numbers again we look at any possible development we're talking some large numbers not just you know a small subdivision that goes in these are uh you know quite a few uh adus or or households that are adding flow um going back to your bedroom question so we have an assumption of 150 gallons per day per dwelling and that's based off of historical knowledge in chadam it seems like regardless of the number of bedrooms in a house we have a pretty strong average of 150 gallons per day of Wastewater flow per residents well that's interesting news it is it is interesting um also could you just clarify for me in terms of the way you have looked at uh the capacity question that we've hit you with as to whether there was any I'll call it offset in other words reduced flow as a result of the rezoning of much of Route 28 to R20 from uh General business because because you would expect there to be some lesser flow from those areas in a full buildout analysis than there might have been when the system was designed or than what we're talking about right now yeah I mean we haven't we haven't looked at that to see if there's a reduced uh flow from what our expectations are we certainly can you know but it's just a it's a level of effort that we didn't pursue yeah I guess um my takeaway I guess with respect to year answers to uh my concerns are that uh the flow is marginally adequate today but um in the in the future probably the next 10 years you're going to be looking to replace pumps anyway um and that um the additional dwelling units that are likely to come about in the west chadam Neighborhood Center is resulting of our zoning change are not going to be anything close to the maximum buildout number of units in the next 10 years and so um it's it's not necessarily a big problem well I mean there there is additional expense I mean again $500,000 in today's dollars to build a basically rehab a pump station where um you know possibly the cost of a new pump is50 to $180,000 um you know we have to look at what the flow is and and what our capabilities are but you know what may be minor to you I I feel like it's you know this sewer system as we develop all over town you know we're already $118 million into it um I'll be requesting another large amount at annual 10 meeting this year um do we want to put that towards expanding functioning pump stations and adequately sized pump stations it's I think there is a cost involved I mean the order of magnitude is you know for everybody to interpret their own way all right I appreciate you thank you no other questions um so I I'm I'm trying to understand a little bit in terms of um development fees and other things like that if if a property um anywhere in the in town decided that they wanted to expand their facilities and and there was was inadequate um sewage uh would would there be an appropriate uh application for a development fee to help pay for that as part of the of the project development is that something that gets done I mean we we do curbs and we do other things that we require for a development what if if it seemed appropriate that we needed to upgrade the sewers it it is something that we could in include in in our development uh requirements isn't it that's out of my wheelhouse I it's nothing that DPW would uh would enact okay fair enough it's I I like the I like where you're going with it though well I I just it seems to me we're we're um I I don't want to uh put this plan aside because right now we don't have uh a pump one pump that's the right size for the entire area when we don't even know where we would need the the uh the sewer uh expansion we don't even know if it really does uh uh need a new pump yet and if it does uh that would trigger some costs and somebody would uh either have to pay for that or the town would pay for that that or or uh the project has to wait a few years until the capacity is there but I mean it's not like we should stop doing this whole plan because right now there might be one sewer uh pump that isn't the right size and and it's not a permanent thing it's going to be replaced in a few years so I I'm I I'm less discouraged by this letter than I was when I got it two two weeks ago thank I just want to uh clarify your development fee that you referred to there I I think I asked this question of U of Katie and she looks at this as an impact fee and yeah that's what that's an impact fee of Dev and are would that be something that we could consider and I can't remember your complete answer on this when I asked you this I I don't know that we want to consider it I want to know if it's if it's something that it's it's legal to do it's something that could be done in a in a worst case scenario that if if somebody wanted to develop right now and there wasn't adequate sewage they we could we could uh negotiate a develop impact fee that would cover some of that cost or or most of that cost so that um the project could go forward I'm not saying we want to do that I'm just saying it's legal it's legal to ask for an impact fee you could defer it if you traditionally impact fees have not been allowed in Massachusetts is my understanding the way I've always been told we would have to look into that from a legal perspective because okay that's why I'm that's why I'm asking my entire career I've been told that impact fees are not but we get arounded by saying why don't you just build that um curb up in a few other things as part of a project Ian do that all the time so there's you know onsite improvements and then you know potentially some offsite improvements that could be like if something needed a special permit but requiring a fee I'm I'm an impact fee I I want to look into the legality of that and I'm not sure if anybody has any if Christine has any different experience or even Char Charlene perhaps I mean I'm actually drawing a blank I can't remember if they were lawful or not in Massachusetts so we we I know certain like the Cape Cod Commission can impose certain improvements through their review if it triggers a a development of regional impact but I can't remember if the towns can do something like that I'd like to look into it further we haven't I mean we' it I it's it hasn't I haven't been involved in any projects during my career that I've I've seen it happen I I think it's worthwhile looking into it though yeah um Charlene going back to fees a little bit when a um a project is hooking into the sewer there is a fee they need to pay to hook into sewer just like if they're going on to town water is that correct yes and it's it's minimal I think it's $100 wow really we want we want people to hook up you know well yes and in some cases I mean they they have have to um so going back to your the Assumption you used of 150 gallons per day is that based on um do you think that's based on because we have an older population here and we don't have as many children so we don't have as many kids taking those you know hour and a half long showers um you know that kind of thing I know for um 55 and over developments they use a different calculation than they would for a regular development when it comes to you know Title 5 because I it's what 110 gallons per bedroom I believe for regular but like for uh uh 55 and over development it drops to like 50 gallon 50 so um you know I'm just curious if if that's the The Clincher but you know I I agree age with Bob I do feel better about you know you coming in today um because I think if there need to be improvements to any of the pump stations I would think that there would need to be a further buildout analysis based on what's allowed under zoning and Allowed by right or even by special permit as far as you know residential development and Commercial development because things do change I mean we Chang the whole Corridor of of Route 28 not the whole but a good chunk of it so you know there there may be some some future analysis that would have to be made if and when the pump stations need to be improved I mean to me that's just good planning um if we are moving forward and I don't mean planning as in you know our plan I just total overall planning um but I do feel better in the conversation yeah Katherine has a clarifying question she has I just wanted to ask you Charlene are you talking about a townwide analysis of the sewer system based on new development not not necessarily I think it's going to be um for lack of a better term zon driven and I don't mean zoning zones I mean the area that contributes to the pump station that may need to be upgraded well I I think you have a point there because uh when I was listening to uh Rob's U description of what gets impacted if you think about it from from um the uh health health center there to the West that goes into one pump station well that's a dominant part of the West Jam Neighborhood Center so this would be more of a localized piece that would impact that pump station right if we did nothing to the east of it then that's less of an impact so if we go east and we do and we do uh adjustments in the number of units there um let's say not only in the west Jam neighborhood center but the adjacent uh SE uh properties that we were considering multif family adjusting the uh the number of units that could go in there now that would impact like the next Pump Station over so that's the barn hill Pump Station so I think as you go down that because is you know fairly flat everything is being pumped somehow some way so as as we go into different sections I think we're going to find that there's going to be challenges if we do a high amount in the west chanam Neighborhood Center we may not be able to do as much in the adjacent areas if we wanted to consider them as a followup in future um you know uh rezonings so I I think we just need to know where we're putting all of our cards I mean it's this isn't this shouldn't be just a housing project for the West chadwood Center I'd like to see this being a Village Center commercial as well as residential and then the adjacent areas would support that even further I couldn't agree more with what so if we put too much here then we do nothing here and it's almost like not not necessarily the best planning in this the way I'm thinking of it and I don't know what that number is but I'm just saying that I think I would like to do both not just the West Chad neighborhoods sir I I agree too okay uh Frank absolutely Frank would don't you uh ask any questions you have um the uh the first sentence of of the memo says that uh you looked at the sewer infrastructure capacity for a maximum of eight units per acre derived from the buildout analysis um did we use the full amount 322 units in the building analysis or did we use the net amount that would be less because we're taking the place of units that're already there I forget the number but it's more like 200 and something two 292 actually when I read the BSC memo if you take a look on that's page three okay they do indicate that the number of 322 goes up to 337 if you're looking at 12 units per acre and that would include the existing as well as the new development I just wanted to find out what number we were using for for this um I believe it was the 207 the new the additional units on top of what was already thank you there right that's what I thought um secondly um we had looked at now a potential density if a developer Ed the density bonus for putting in uh year round and accessible housing um at 12 and we when we knew that that a lot of developers would would not use that density bonus so it would be a lot a lot less so this is a very theoretical exercise um but the the you looked at eight instead of 12 could could you talk to that a bit other words why did why did we drop drop down to eight well you know so running through the sewercad models with uh my consultant it does cost money um we wanted to see if eight would push us over any threshold we knew we didn't have a lot of capacity additional capacity from what our planned buildout was in those pump stations so we had to add the additional units and the flows from from those proposed eight adus um just to see what kind of threshold we would have we could run it again with 12 but if we were already kind of Towing the line with eight I think we're just you know we're just expanding so are we Towing the line as we were currently uh set up or would it be Towing the the line after we potentially upgrade the pumping stations well no we would we would look at so if if those prop properties were rezoned so when we redevelop uh and look at sewer expansion we look at every single property and we also look at some of the planned you know uses for those properties um it would be a case where if there were 12 adus proposed when when we redid the pump station we would have to take that into consideration sure but I I guess what I'm getting to is if the time comes to upgrade the pumps and at that time the powers that be decide that we're going to upgrade them so we can handle 12 that's okay right the sewer system could handle that well yeah it is what it is there's pipe capacity out there it's the pump stations where is the we okay I just wanted to make that clear um and going back to bedrooms you're it's a very interesting comment you you made it it doesn't matter how many bedrooms it all kind of averages out to 150 that's when houses are occupied I mean you know we we could be up over 3 million gallons per day in Midsummer but we're down around maybe 700,000 gallons in the winter you know so it it does fluctuate but you have to kind of assume you know which houses are occupied but it does average out regardless whether it's a two-bedroom or a five bedroom it seems like 150 gallons per day is a really for chadam anyway doesn't doesn't work everywhere but for chadam it's a really solid number to go by okay thank you that's all I have can can we talk I seems to me it's a peaking issue and not an average issue that we're we're dealing with here yeah it's because the the pumps are rated gallons per minut it so um but we do have to average it to some degree but it is it is our our real concern is do we have the capacity to pump if everybody's here in the summer and and not not on average over the year are we able to pump no right correct so it is a peaking issue correct we need to look at and the models are they they designed to look at the maximum or are they designed to just do an average they look at they look at the peak flows okay so if if I asked you over to take that model I don't want you to do it again but I just I think a a more appropriate model might have been um 250 in 15 years with a with um 20 a year for the next you know know 20 more each year going forward at what point do we actually get into trouble and is it is it past the eight years where we would be replacing those pumps anyway that's I think that's a more appropriate way to look at this issue here is that okay we're going to start putting more property more capacity on this this system here if we go ahead and pass this and let's be optimistic and say each year we get 20 new units when will will uh we have a problem before we actually have to replace those pumps anyway in eight 10 years like you said and I don't I don't I don't know what the answer is but I think it's a lot closer to we're going to be okay yeah I mean we're get we're getting into the weeds quite a bit you know yes but but that is yes I but I understand you're what you're saying yeah I you know yeah it it buildout doesn't happen overnight and we still have people that were required to connect and they were still waiting for some of them to connect so we're not even at our capacity of what it was designed for so may there may be room for additional new development until we reach that critical flow Point uh Charlene yeah I think that the point of it is though is if uh if you want to add all of this on and the infrastructure isn't upgraded and a new applicant comes in and they say oh wait a minute we don't have capacity here at this Pump Station you're going to have to wait um that's treating these properties very differently and I'm not quite sure I want to get in the Middle with that I mentioned this before um I think that we should be cautious about that and uh if there's a plan that this is going to happen because it's 20 years out fine but if there's if this is going to initiate some of that and we still have another half of the system still to be built and to connect into it um you know I'm a little weary about putting putting too many eggs in this one location um we have many other locations that we're want to add and I don't want to sacrifice those because we want to put all our Focus here I don't think our focus should be just here I think it should be in multiple multi areas of the Town especially when it comes to multif family residential um but Charlene you had a question well just and I want to get the Bob for too just following up quickly on what you said um each area is going to be looked at by The Pump Station involved and the um gravity system right so I don't think we're putting all our eggs in one basket here um the question I had just quickly is the the flow we're talking about is that the actual sewer flow or is it based on the amount of water being used is the actual sewer flow it is okay and allows for a certain percentage of infiltration you know usually 3 to 6% is typical um Bob I want to get to you first before we get too far down too far down huh that's why I like being over here I know you're concentrating on the pumps how much how much flow is there left in the pipe 1/3 we at 1/3 capacity right now we at half capacity in the flow in the pipe itself transferring uh to the uh plant in in the gravity system we're down a little less than 40% okay what about the pressure systems um you know they flow pretty much full you know I I know but but it's the rate they there is there is capacity you know they don't it's not like a uh 90 lbs of of pressure going through them and and screaming through the pipes so you still have plenty of flow in the pipes correct you know then that's that's something not only replacing the pumps to pump into the pipes is is if you have to replace the damet or the pump I mean I was just uh noticing on in yth they have a 3ft diameter pipes going down 28 that's a big sewer pipe so so that's that's one of the questions is to in the future expansions to kind of look out for and say well we might have to upgrade the pipe uh instead of a 6 in or an 8 in we might have to put a 10in pipe in this section uh contemplating that that the flow could could be more as as the little Villages keep cropping up uh unfortunately we've gone to uh down Main Street to um the CVS the next phase I believe at some point you're going to well we've gone down to Oyster Harbor oer Pond rather uh the next phase through town replacing the water and seanes down there I would assume that the pipes are going to be much larger there uh we're looking at cow road which which has a uh upgrade on it already but it it's it's a small upgrade because we're we're slowly expanding that into North chadam a little bit and then down Crow Road except in into great Hill I would assume and into uh um you've also gone to uh queenanne road with the expansion to queenanne Road should should tie into Samer Road at some point later in life if I live so long but but so you know those are the little things that now is the time to catch them before uh all of a sudden we go gee we got to add another pipe down down 28 or something like that or figure a back road to go so right I'd like to get to Katherine first and then back to Charlene so I just had I think what I'm hearing um somehow we we need to make it clear though if we what I'm hearing from you is at current under current conditions um with the sewer system and the pumps eight units per acre even five units per acre is not workable we do need to upgrade the pumps at George Ryder to accommodate even five units per acre is that correct yeah yes that's correct okay so it's just I don't know how we feel about putting forth a bylaw to the town contingent upon future improvements um we would just need to make that clear that the density that we'd be proposing um actually could not be handled currently but it's contingent upon future improvements in the in the Wastewater system so um from a planning perspective I've usually we want to say that the infrastructure is in place to handle the zoning that we're proposing um so I just think that's something the board should consider um the other question and please forgive my ignorance on this point but one thing one principle that comes up a lot in the comprehensive plan is that we are inhabitants of a Fragile on a fragile Coastal ecosystem I'm not sure how much the sewage uh system impacts that is there a situation where uh too much increase will negatively impact the ecosystem overall or is that that it doesn't impact it I mean the way it's the way it's treated and the way the the effluent is handled um it doesn't it's a it's a bonus to the environment you know any any development or any any new hookups to our Wastewater Plant is um is a benefit to the environment okay great that was my question okay Charlene just very quickly and this is minutes okay a question I think for Katie to ask somebody because it's not in your wheelhouse if a development is being done and it's allowed by right or by special permit and there is not the capacity for the sewer can they not put in a Title 5 septic system which may require denitrification I don't think we can say you can't build anything I think there needs to be an alternative yeah method of treatment that would need to be addressed that's not a question we can answer today I don't expect an answer but I think that is also very critical okay and Frank last question yes sir the uh Katherine the uh the five units uh I'm trying to find that I saw the eight units in the memo but I haven't seen the five I I think she just asked that of yeah no but where did the five come from I think Rob made a comment that at for the barn hill Pump Station we looked at we calculated it for eight units but then we also looked at it for five units just to see like what that threshold would look like and just to clarify his the board started out a few years ago considering this we started out with a baseline Den Baseline density of five un per acre that's where we started and then over time we decided well why don't we increase it let's see if we can increase it so this is over a number of years we tried to increase and then we finally pushed it I'm I'm just trying to understand are are we close to the line with eight units or five units barn hill can accommodate both however it limits future any other future growth in that area at eight units or five units both both and okay and George Ryder George Ryder could not accept either any additional yeah yeah George Ryder cannot accept five and cannot accept eight is this correct that's correct yeah okay so so I and I want to just clarify your the the answer to your point though there's more area that goes into these pump stations than just the West chadam Neighborhood Center so if we put all our cards in here and we start to impact other areas and limit their ability I mean that's a problem too I mean the the town and you know uh Rob needs to take a look at this holistically you can't just look at this one West jadam neighborhood center and ignore everything else everything else still contributes I was just gonna ask can we see a map can we get a map showing the area that contributes to each Pump Station I can I can provide that and send it to the board just so we have a I'm a visual person yeah that's a very good good point um I I think what I'd like to do right now we can continue the discussion um as we work through the after the business meeting at 5:00 um there needs to be a switch over by the TV crew so uh I would like to uh close this meeting out and then we'll start up again at 5 o'clock on the the business meeting so could I have a motion I move we adjourn the work session second um uh let's have a roll call vote uh Katherine hurn yes I approve Warren Chan Warren chain approve Bob worter approve Charlene green approve Frank Shear approve Bob DS Bob DS approve and art sprew I approve we'll see you again at uh 5 o'cl