e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon everyone welcome to the April 23rd 2024 meeting of the chatam select board please note this meeting is is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and On Demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chair saying none pursuant to Governor Hy's March 29th 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General Law chapter 30A subsection 20 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chadam select board is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceeding as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to the meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 1508 945 4410 conference ID 203 386 4914 91 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams for the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Channel TV which is now exin channel 8 and 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide real-time access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible first action I'm going to establish Quorum uh select board member necastro present select board member Davis present select board member dykens present select board member shell and select board member Mets is present uh I'm just going to give a quick rundown of tonight's agenda uh and make a couple small little announcements also we're going to start off with approval of minutes for April 2nd 2024 and April 9th of 2024 they will move into uh public announcements and agenda item requests uh the public hearing on consider General bylaw Amendment revised chapter 100 airport approach zone map chapter 100 scrier error correction and parenthesis not uh due to a posting era we will not be opening that post public hearing this evening it has been re res uh posted and res scheduled for May 7th 2024 so once again the public hearing will not be take place this evening then we will go into public comments on our business agenda which consists of the following and I'm going to make one small edit uh which I'll clarify in a moment item a consider use of sales on Town property Community Center Castleberry fairs Item B disclosure of appearance of conflict of interest request for an exemption determination from Barry Greco shelfish advisory committee item C Housing Development for 1533 Main Street and zero Meeting House Road consider delegation of project responsibilities on and Authority this item we are going to take public comment during the item so not prior I'm holding that one aside we're going to let public comment during that particular item item D electric vehicle or EV public charging station policy and we will wrap up our evening with appointments to the council and aging board of directors affordable housing committee and conservation committee um with all that being said I will start with approval of minuts for April 2nd 2024 a motion to approve all moved hear a second edits Corrections Mike uh I have two apart from my nits on page nine um and I'm just bringing this one up because I'm I'm I'm reversing uh what this says from positive to negative I'm pretty sure that uh Mr Miner said that he couldn't find the answer but he would look for it um and so I would change uh in the first line he can find to he cannot find and then in the second line change is being proposed uh but he offered to get the information for the select board and then on page 11 um this says looking at the comments by in in the in the second lowest bidder there was a little more confidence expressed by the board uh by the board in choosing that bidder I I think that that encompasses the entire board I I certainly don't recall myself saying that and I think there may have been others that Express doubts but not necessarily confidence to choose the second bidder so I I would change that to say um subject to the will of the group uh expressed by certain members of of the board in choosing that b bitter okay um Dean yes Mr chairman on P I have two on page nine um the third full paragraph in the third line uh after it the phrase the authority of the town I would insert the word not because that's the comment I made the authority of any Town not to extend the agreement and then on page 11 of the second full paragraph third line toward the end after the phrase change orders I would insert the phrase which made it possible which made it possible to and the next line get I would strike the word there and substitute the word the' to get the money back that's it okay any additional Corrections edits okay in favor select board member necastro I select board member Davis I select board member dykin I select board member shell I and select board member Mets ASI uh approval minutes for April 9th 2024 I'll entertain a motion to approve so move second second okay edits Mike uh I just have one page um and a couple of things these are I think these were my comments in the second full paragraph fourth line page Mike oh I'm sorry I uh page nine sorry um Second full paragraph fourth line um it says areas of Housing Development and create I said and developing a wish list of sorts uh the paragraph that begins Mr Shell reviewed um it says committee membership it's a board so I would change committee to board capital p b um and in the next paragraph fourth line um line that begins review uh emphasize that the review will be a process jointly uh it says conducted between I I think at least what I intended to say and I think what I hope I said was involving the affordable housing trust Board of Trustees and the select board um and um the um in the penultimate line there where it says or May 15 will allow the proposals to be presented it says publicly the the presentation is to the Review Committee whoever that is the the I said the affordable trust uh Housing Trust meeting so I think the word publicly should be deleted um next paragraph fourth line um in that area of town I would strike um can be developed and and and insert are being pursued that's all I have okay um Dean yes Mr chairman just a couple of small ones maybe just a couple of small ones maybe Mike already caught these um on page 12 under C Town Council is misspelled it's okay and then on the next page in the right in the middle Winnie leer it says Winnie Year miss Leer's name page 13 par under D and on page 15 I think something's missing um yes Mr dyan's at the bottom Mr dyin made a motion to appoint Barbara Conti as a member of the Human Services committee it doesn't have the typical ending until good catch yeah with it with the term and the and the um qualifying language so that should be that was part of the motion that's it Mr chairman good C additional questions nope okay we have a motion we have a second all those in favor select board member nicastro I select board member Davis I select board member dykens I select board member shell I and select board member met says I public announcements and agenda item request I just have one on behalf of our town Treasurer just to remind everyone that the real estate property taxes are due May 1st so pay them up um any um agenda items from the board uh Jeff yeah I just wanted to uh uh just as a placeholder kind of see where we are with 127 old Harbor Road just we haven't had an update in a while um kind of don't know where that stand so I just would like to get an update thanks okay Dean thank you Mr chairman recently the this is a I guess a combined agenda item request and an announcement uh recently the um select board and the council and aing board U met to um hear a presentation regarding a feasibility study for 197 uh uh uh Stony Hill Road uh the current site of the u center for active living and a number of concerns and questions were posed to the the architect and um I've spoken with the town manager and um she has indicated that she's going to have him answer or address those concerns and questions and um I'd like to have an agenda item for us to schedule a public forum in late June to review um that that um feasibility study with those comments and questions um the longer term um idea that I would like like to float and this would be for the select board to consider depending upon the level of support for either or of the seever or all of the several proposals the pro proposed options that were presented by the architect would be to have um a second public forum in the fall um be between the first and the second public forum uh I would uh ask the board to consider um and and the town manager to engage the architect um to De develop a design plan with hard cost estimates so that could be presented in the fall and depending upon the the reception among the public for that and the will of the select board um the board might entertain scheduling a a special town meeting in the fall to consider uh the the development Redevelopment of that particular building but I the immediate agenda item request um with that information is um that um this board schedule um a a public forum in late June thank you Mr chairman all right thank you additional for the board is there anyone from the in-house audience tonight with a public announcement or agenda item request is there anyone online with a public announcement or agenda item request okay again public hearing is um being rescheduled for May May 7th 20 2024 so there's no action on that now we're going to move on to public comment on our business agenda and like I mentioned earlier item C Housing Development um for 1533 Main Street and zero Meeting House Road I will allow public comment during that agenda item so um items a b d and e if there's anyone who has uh question or comment now is the time to do so I'll open up to the in-house audience tonight yep so y Brian Phillips 374 Orleans Road um I was wondering with the charging stations um if we're going to account for the 30% more wear and tear electric cars have on our infrastructure most notably our $1 million Bridge like some sort of a tax okay thanks is there anyone online I see Lane is LAN elae please go ahead thank you uh yes Ela Gibbs and I'd like to um make some comments on the public charging stations yep uh in the policy proposed policy it says widespread access to EV charging stations for public use at Municipal properties throughout the community so I assume that would mean eventually having them at the community center all the Downtown parking lots U at the beaches uh at the Town parks in the fish Pier um and then later it says it's a commitment to Residents seasonal guests and tourists I would assume that most residents who have electric vehicles have their own charging stations at home and so this is primarily going to be for seasonal guests and tourists um we have a finite number of spaces parking spaces in chadam it's become it's an ongoing problem as we all know uh it's particularly difficult for full-time residents who are trying to just live their daily lives and and do errands and that kind of thing and then a couple weeks ago we made it worse uh with the food trucks uh where that now there's a formal policy we're on weekends the ones in the Downtown parking lot near where you are tonight I'm sorry um uh downtown at the Town Hall would be blocked off and cars towed if anybody parked there whether or not the vendors actually showed up and they're located at different places um I I think it's a real hardship uh for full-time residents uh this again seems to be for tourists and seasonal residents so I would hope there's something in the policy that you do an analysis and find out you know what the impact's going to be how many full-time residents would actually use them and um to have some sensitivity around that because we're losing parking dramatically between those two different types of things and to do it for basically tourists um you know I kind of have a problem with the full-time residents seem to be put on the back burner on a lot of these projects thank you very much thank you any additional um individuals online with a question or comment any all right so we're going to move on to our business agenda item a considered use of sales on Town property Community Center Castleberry fairs on July 6 through 7th August 3rd to the 4th September 7th through 8 2024 um Terry Mullen is presenter is Terry available Terry online um this has been before the park and wreck um actually it's two SE separate entity they first were approved uh for the ju and August date they recently went to the park and W at their last meeting and we were approv or supported for the September 7th dates um this is a vendor that has come before us um in years past so they're they're not new to the process but um questions or comments from the board I guess shine um I know that this vendor has done work um has done events here and and they do provide opportunity for local art uh artists um I just don't know if they've had um events after Labor day before like the 7th and 8th is that a new are those new dates do we know the the September 7th and 8 date was a was a additional date that was added um I don't know if they've had dates that late in the past do not know Corey typically there's a representative here um we are familiar with this outfit I'm not uncomfortable voting approval but um we're kind ofering our own or belying our own kind of um policy by so doing so I I we've we've had them before we yeah um just to answer Miss Davis's question last year they were approved for July 8th and 9th August August 5th and 6th and September 9th and 10th okay so it's consistent with last year okay so it is consistent thank you if we're if we're comfortable I'll move to approve I'm comfortable myself because they've been before us before um I I think they have a decent track record um and it's consistent with last year's um approval so I'll entertain a motion then okay I move to approve the use of town property for Supreme fairs to host three craft fairs in the front line of the chadam community center on July 6th and 7th August 3rd and 4th and September 7th and 8th 2024 with set up beginning at 6:00 a.m. and clean up completed by 8:00 p.m. second but shouldn't it say Castleberry fars is that just a typo thank you should say Castleberry FIS so the motion is modified to say castle fars y we're approving in a different company all right so we have a motion we have a second any further discussion I all in favor select member D Castro hi select bir member Davis Hi select member dykens hi select member shell hi and select board member met says I uh Item B disclosure of appearance of conflict of interest request for exemption determination from Barry Greco Shish Riser committee I will like to note that we have uh Our Town Council Pat costell who is online uh and available for Item B and actually item C if necessary um this evening so um board's desire you want to Mr Greco you like to step up to the podium good evening chairpersons um I'm worried about that conflict of interest on our upcoming SAC meeting uh me being a member of the and I was worried you know if someone files a complaint on the Ethics Committee on me though whether I should abstain from the meeting tomorrow or well exstension is essentially on an individual basis I mean you every member of all our boards and committees OB as you well know we've served you know for some time um have to take the eth the ethics training ethics certificates um and it is on each individual to make their own determination on whether they need to recuse themselves or not you've filed um kind of another step in the process potential process yes I was instructed to do this by a friend you thought it was on my best behalf no and and that is what is before this board tonight uh for review and discussion so um I actually open up for the board for initial comments I don't want to make a comment although I appreciate your attention to the issue I I in light of what you just said about concern about somebody bringing an action against you which I appreciate I wanted to ask Council if whatever this board does that would give you complete coverage against a complaint either from a private party or from the state ethics commission just so that we know what we're what we're being asked to do and you know what the effect of it is are you on Pat Pat good evening um to answer select Michelle's question yes it would it would it would provide protection um chapter 268a section 19B allows the appointing authority which in this case is the select board uh to issue a written determination that um the interest involved is not so substantial as to be deemed likely to affect the Integrity of the services which the town can expect from the employee so if the board is comfortable that there's no uh no likelihood of uh in Integrity being questioned or challenged with regard to the proposed Act if you vote this uh finding and issue a written determination it would protect the employee from any charge under the conflict of interest statute thank you okay um Dean I just wanted to thank you for coming forward with this I appreciate that I wanted to ask what what is the nature of your business and I asked the question because fulltime shell fisherman okay so as it relates to the item that's going to be on the committee's agenda the item tomorrow is uh getting rid of the prohibition on grants it was somebody had come in front of our board that wanted a grant so all the laws would have to be changed if if our board comes to you right to do does your does and those would be agriculture grants M do does your business include agriculture work no there's a Prohibition in chadam on agriculture grants there was only one in chadam okay longstanding because because and I ask because the um we as you know um we had a request for the exemption that was withdrawn by by another member of the committee who's since resigned exactly and and when what when he specified what he did it seemed to be um implicated by the the vote the motion that's going to be on your agenda tomorrow he has a grant but it's not an agiculture it's a but it sounded like he was in the business of of possib I can't really speak for him I like that was my impression so I was wondering if you were in the same no I'm not that's AEL gr doesn't fall under the same jurisdiction okay okay yes Mr Taylor Seth Taylor um the question I think um Mr necastro is not does he have that business since they're no grants it is would he be an applicant for an oyster Grant if this board decided to open them up again that's where the potential conflict would lie since yeah I was getting in that direction thank you Mr Taylor yeah thank you for for your response appreciate it Jeff yeah so I I'm uh struggling with this a little bit so you're here because you you your your committee of what you're a member is likely to be recommending to the board but we don't know that yet Poss possibly they're likely to recommend um to the board that we'd like to you know nuke that that BW if you will that rig that there are no private grants in town and as a result of that vote which would likely support you would also likely be an applicant for a future Grant or or you or you wouldn't I as of right now I I can't say yes or no I'm not I get plenty other stuff to do yeah yeah well I I struggle with where how when I mean there's a lot of work to be done before we would even consider you know giving up public you know bottom for private many laws to be yeah okay that that helps actually thank you so my question to you um Barry is you know the shellfish advisory committee you know and maybe Pat can clarify this a little bit you know it's it's obvious that it's should be all com commercial shell fishermen and that there is an understanding that you'd be advising based on your area expertise um but there is a piece of it that says um that if you have a specific financial interest in something then that would be an might be an opportunity where you need to recuse yourself um so you're answering your qu the question with an ambiguous answer I'm not sure if I would or would not apply for if if if the grant came through give me a second okay um I guess for anybody who serving on a board um or any of us is that we have um you know we're embodied with this trust that we've appointed you as a as an expert in your field and you've done a great job with the shellfish advisory committee I serve as your liaison and you weigh in on really important matters and Barry you you you're you're you know you're really good at what you do and as a shellfish and and um and what you've done as a volunteer for the town you know there are times like in anybody's you know for any examples where sometimes we have to look and say you know is this something that I need to recuse myself there's a direct you know interest or I I am involved um this seems to me like you're unsure you know that whether or whether not you um are going to apply if if in fact something like this comes along which we know is going to take as you had said considerable time I'm just you know I'm just I'm struggling myself with this Barry because of um you know when we put the trust into people we want to make sure that their integrity and transparency is there and um and that they're complying with with um you know the regulations and the the the mission of the committee um and we put it usually on the applicant I mean the uh the Committee Member to make those decisions themselves so I'm just this is where I'm struggling is okay I'm not afraid of myself I'm afraid of somebody else understand sending me down my name being on the front page of the paper Mr Greco does it all for himself and that's I will Reco myself if I have to but I don't want to right okay um Jeff has a followup then Dean has a followup then I'm gonna make a comment too yeah I guess I'm still struggling I it it then why if you if you don't know them why don't why doesn't every member of The Selfish advisory committee would have one yeah we wouldn't have a committee if everyone on everyone recluses themselves so if I understand Pat's memo correctly then we should make a criteria that all members of the shelfish advisory committee need to be commercial shelfish I think that's what I read that's what I understand Pat you know explain to me if I'm incorrect I don't think that's got well yeah in a lot comment on this and I don't want to jump in but basically yes so the the structure of our the way we formatted the shelfish advisory committee and frankly all our Waterway committees kind of just opened up this this conversation of conflict of interest just by the nature of your business there's a there's a conflict of interest applied um an element of addressing some level of that is to have the celf advisor you know specifically call out two commercial shell fish you know fishermen you know one residential delate delineate the membership titles in a sense that we give it I don't always say some type of protection but and I let Pat and all you legal attorneys Gotta Give the legal Twist on it but um basically it's just a structural creation that allows for um some protection on this uh conflict of interest but de I I just haded to followup question I I guess this would apply to every member of your committee if if this uh current regulation were to be rescinded and um these grants were allowed to be be issued does that impact the shell fishing business does that take away areas that that's that's that's tough for me to answer something that's down and there's only two people on the board that are commercial shell fishermen is that right okay yeah um thank you uh I know P Pat might be speaking on this and I did send a follow-up inquiry to Pat on these Waterway committee matters related to conflict of interest um and as I read Pat's response and and the SE ethics commission's regulation um the town through the board of Selectmen and the town manager select board and the town manager could establish criteria for membership on these committees but the benefit and we maybe we should but the benefit is limited to uh exempting them from conflict concerns only in the area of matters of General policy not in matters relating to an individual members personal financial interest um if you have a committee and in me in an individual member has a particular financial interest that is not that type of Remedy is not going to help them the only thing that would help them is for the select board to Grant an exemption under section 19 which is what is before us um in my case I have to be consistent with how I voted on this in the past we recently had a vote on a member of on a request concern concerning the um affordable housing trust and I voted not to Grant the exemption a few years ago we had a vote to consider um request for exemption on of a member of the uh Conservation Commission and I voted no um I've always said that and I apply this to myself recusal is is the best policy you can never go wrong with that the problem with the selfish committee is and I just I'm just hearing this for the first time only two members are are shell fisherman uh if you were all shell fishermen there three if the entire committee were if a quorum of the committee were shell fishermen they could invoke the rule of necessity which is a technical thing you could all say we have a conflict and then take a vote to allow yourselves to to proceed um so I guess I come down on this one and it's not I I distinguish between the individual's integrity and the Ser the Integrity of the services so a no vote for me is not meant to be a disparagement of the applicant point of order please M Mr chair point point this is our deliberation so that's that's where I'm likely to come down Mr Taylor hold on one moment hold on one moment please so that's where I'm likely to come down thank you Mr chairman um this matter being discussed may be a commercial shellfishing issue but it's also a public issue and and it's you know um the the AC agriculture discussion and policy discussion is going to go forward and it's going to be robust and it's going to be an interesting process um but it it's not specific to just commercial fishermen because the public recreational folks voters everybody access the public ways which the commerci which agricultural ual impact so in saying it's just a commercial fishing or shell fishing issue it's not it is a public issue so um you know so that makes it a bigger bigger bigger broader discussion which the recreational folks have an impact the public has an impact whatnot just as a matter of information for you Dean that this is just not about commercial shellfishing bar can ask you a quick question so the action before the shellfish advisory committee is basically a recommendation so do you feel by not participating in that you're um shorting yourself basically excuse me are you shorting yourself yes I would love to participate in the meeting tomorrow but are you shorting yourself if you don't participate do you feel what what I'm wondering is is there enough of the committee that could act on it on a formal vote it is a recommendation is it is not a formal action but it's a recommendation the recommendation you you swing the gavl correct that is correct um but we are very clear with the potential conflict of interest that is being put on the table and we I think I appreciate the position you're in by you not formally voting doesn't lessen your voice because we understand you've res you know you've recused yourself from the process um so I can still attend the meeting voice my pce vote not vote you cannot if if you're going to recuse yourself you cannot deliberate on the discussion so and again recusal action is is upon each individual sham he can however I think I'm right on this maybe pad will have to tell me if he is um he's still risking probably the um conflict issue um he can sit and discuss but he abstains from voting I I don't believe that if you're going to recuse yourself for the just you need to rec yeah it's you don't participate in any Pat if you want to weigh in but I believe you cannot participate at all that's correct Mr chair the bars on participation in a matter in which uh a Committee Member may have a financial interest that's what where the contract lies uh the conflict lies pardon me so uh participation includes discussion deliberation and certainly voting all of that would be prohib it if there is a perceived financial interest in the matter okay all right um Mike well I mean you invited me to say something yeah well I gu I could see um this is hard as this discussion has suggested um i i two things first of all I'm inclined to agree I don't want to say agree but I I understand Dean means consistency with respect to the other votes he's taken um that's frankly at least where I'm concerned more about us than it is about you um where you're concerned I'll be honest with you I'm having a little bit of a struggle figuring out exactly what the conflict is and you're welcome to address or or or or assign that to my ignorance generally of the industry but it's more a question of first of all it's advisory I know that doesn't count but we don't know you don't know what it's it's purely a question of what happens ultimately here and you've told us that you don't know what you would do if we um if we uh repeal the bylaw that puts it in a pretty speculative category for me um that doesn't eliminate the concern you and maybe somebody said something to you and I I I you have to take that serious to know cuz I don't know I'm not going to lie no no no no but I'm talking about somebody threatening you with a claim if you act on this matter um which implies that you know your your word is is important to to to the outcome of the of the discussion I I um I I guess I in in attempting to go a little bit where Corey was going um in a slightly different way I I the one thing I think you can do even even if you recuse yourself is you can come here when we consider the bylaw change and you can stand up there and pound the table and tell us that we ought to either not do it or do it and you know the world will come to an end if we don't agree with you uh uh and that that will carry weight um I I more probably with people who know you than better than I do but that'll carry weight so you know I I guess i' I'd say to me the the issue that we had with the affordable housing trust was I can distinguish that this is a case where um being a commercial fisherman is something that while it's not in the bylaw it's not in our what we say we want in our our U candidates um it's still something that's important to being able to carry out that um that that um B that that Duty um on that committee and on that basis I would distinguish it I I guess I'll close by saying I I you know I if if you insist I'll you you'll force me to think about distinguishing it but I wish you wouldn't no problem Jeff yeah I I I my response is I I think you're you really ought to recuse yourself it doesn't negate your ability to influence the debate and the discussion longer term and you certainly have you know the the knowledge and the support of certain key members of this select board knowing your background and how involved you you've been in the industry you wouldn't lose any weight whatsoever with this board and or the town to be honest you know what I'm saying so yeah I do I will come here for the final if it if it gets this far we don't far I'm anticipating that that it might is what I'm hearing so otherwise you kind of wouldn't be here but so any that's what I would do okay I got an answer y all right so you like the board to take an action on your exemption request or I'm going to recuse myself all right asking for no action on the board tonight thank you thank you very much thank you Barry thank you bar thanks for showing up thanks all right all right item C Housing Development for 1533 Main Street and zero Meeting House Road consider delegation of project responsibilities and Authority uh once again after the select board um has our opening discussions uh I will entertain public comments on this agenda item I I do want to take a couple minutes to kind of just make a couple opening statements before we kick off the board couple thoughts um you know there's a lot of emails that have come in um up until the beginning of this meeting tonight so all those will be added to the uh record um for uh our Minutes review this board the select board has been very very supportive of affordable housing um more so over the last couple years we've identified larger Parcels I mean The Meeting House Road and the Buckley property are two of the largest Parcels we've had to um consider in in quite some time there's always been a house here or smaller parcel there um but we have um you know aside from the criticisms that we've received in the past I think been very focused on obtaining uh efforts to move forward with the with housing projects uh we have our new affordable housing trust who has also been very focused on um reviewing the two larger Parcels that we have in our inventory um I don't think either of these entities are looking to derail efforts to get housing done um I will recognize the sincere frustration in some of the process but some of us want this done yesterday um it takes time it takes patience there's a process there's reviews and etc etc but we want to get this done in as timely fashion as possible and what is in the best interest of the community um me personally I do not like the kind of the Divide that's being created amongst the affordable housing trust in the select board I think we both have uh the same goals at the end of the night um we have some some procedural uh some some maybe some philosophical differences that we need to work out but I think they can be done and they should be done and they will be done um frankly the biggest you know topic of discussion is probably the density issue issue uh but I think that's something that can be done uh professionally amongst all the Comm committee members um I think the goal has been mentioned by the board members both on the select board and the trust is we're looking for people to be inclus inclusion included in the process collaborate with the neighbors collaborate with the residents be as transparent as possible um and move this process moving forward that that is what has been my understanding from my colleagues uh I believe it is true and I believe that um you know we can we can achieve this the topic this evening was put on um and I struggled a little bit with this whether we should have it tonight we should move it forward um couple things one it's it's a discussion needs to happen with all the select me all five members of the select board present so uh this happens to be a week that we all are here uh Town Council has opined which is in our you know packet that early in the process I'm not sure what early in the process is exactly supposed to a mean but we should designate um a body to kind of lead the way forward and we have not had that discussion my hopes this evening from my perspective is that we start the conversation um I'm not necessarily thinking we're going to take any action tonight but it's a it's a start of a longer conversation uh we haven't received the rfps in yet so we don't have the any specific details to review yet um those are going to be coming in but they're do on the 25th again there's a future process moving forward um so again I'm I'm kind of advocating for a status quo at the moment letting both committees obviously be involved as the vice as my vice chair said the chair of the Housing Trust um you know each of us will play a role in this process so I'm hoping for again transparency inclusion and collaboration between both committees um I hope that we can do this I know no um let see if there's any little points I want to make Power struggle and I really want to kind of stamp down on this this perception of this power struggle that's been brewing we're all colleagues we're all professional uh we all can work together we are going to have differen of opinions we are going to have difference in philosophies um but I want to um reassure that the the process to at least anything I have control over uh will be done as transparently and as professionally as possible and I think that collectively I think we're all going to be in agreement with that um and I hope that this again this conversation is a start of a longer conversation um to what to do with these two Parcels so those are my opening thoughts I will turn it over to Mike would you like to start start and then we all again we also Town Council on if there's any questions or comments or requests from him so um I the one thing Corey with all due respect I I want to just push back a little bit on in in your remarks s is that this is the first such conversation um as a matter of fact I I don't remember I know there have been two prior discussions um and I know that the first one um was at my instance um I I first at the affordable housing trust board and then here asked for an agenda item where we would discuss how we were going to allocate or exchange or otherwise coordinate with respect to um dealing with the process once we had um once once H how are we going to deal with proposals as they came in in response to the rfps um those discussions I thought were were were productive they were collaborative they were collegial um I I think they were a little bit um lacking in specificity in terms of you know who's going to do this and who's going to do that but um from my side for me personally I I didn't think that was a problem because I really did think that we had all exhibited um a an intention to work together um I I I I and I in the past have adverted to it I'll do it very briefly to say that I I maybe shame on me I misunderstood but I really did think that um chadam in first of all back in 21 creating uh a new affordable housing trust that uh would would would contemplate uh building uh homes for people all the way up to 200% Ami and that would be led by a new board a different board uh constituted a little differently than the old affordable housing trust board was um and and renewed uh twice uh in our um submissions to the state our our um local petitions I I thought that what that said to me was that chadam was basically saying that we're going to act on this initiative um through the affordable housing trust and the and the affordable housing trust board recognizing that the part that dealt with um building housing for people between 100% Ami and 200% Mi was something that was going to have to abide um an approval from Boston from the G excuse me the general court um and and that was something that was important because you know if you don't have the money and you can't use the money uh to build that kind of housing you need to figure out other ways to do it uh nevertheless uh the affordable housing trust board from its Inception the current board from its Inception in O October um was and remains committed to uh doing the best that it can to create a two projects one of which is uh exclusively affordable housing namely up to 100% Ami and the other of which is um one portion of um affordable housing and the remainder of it uh between uh 10 120% Ami and if possible depending on what we see in the way of proposals possibly some units that would be up to 200% Ami um we proceeded in good faith and by the way I mean I I I can tell you I when I put my name in to sit on that board I consulted my colleagues and and I made sure that if there was anybody else on the on this board sitting here at tonight that wanted to take that task on I would step back uh and I offered that and it was only when I was assured no that's fine you you go ahead put your name in that I went forward with that um and I we we have gone forward as an affordable housing trust board in an effort to create um a two two proposals that we hope and unfortunately that's the best I can do at this point until next week and and by the way it it it it's next Thursday Thursday week week that we get those proposals in uh that we said we think this gives chadam the best chance to get something that we can work with and that will be satisfactory to as many people that will have the best chance at developing a consensus in chadam that these are good projects and we recognize that's only a start and we recognize that what the community has to say to us as we go forward as we've been listening up until now is very very important because without consensus we simply can't succeed here um frankly uh in my view the process is complicated a little bit by the fact that legally those proposals themselves have to remain confidential that's not the affordable housing trust board that's not the select board that's not anybody else talking that is the law and that shame on me I probably should have known that before but I didn't really realize that until last week um so we're going to have to work with that and still get input from the community notwithstanding that those proposals themselves have to remain confidential um I I I want to find a way here tonight that we can proceed efficiently and effectively because there's another Factor here we have people I'm told uh by one perspective bidder I I I don't I don't think that they're a a going to be a proponent here but the the the ballpark cost of submitting a proposal is in the neighborhood of of $450,000 maybe maybe more so people are investing in making proposals to us we have an obligation to deal with those with respect and with all kinds of professionalism and and so I want to find a way here tonight that we can say this is how we're going to proceed everybody is comfortable that they are going to get the opportunity to have their say before anything is committed before any documents are signed before anything is finished and I I I had thought um that what what is in the the the uh um the uh the packet the staff report tonight uh was was a pretty fair resolution of those considerations um I still think that but I will be welcome uh I will be interested to hear what my colleagues have to say thank you sh would you like to go next well I think I think Mike said it well um about the intention of of of um both of us as select board members on the affordable housing trust and the process um you know there are there are P process is is um complex and we'll you know as we go forward with you know looking at the proposals and they are private um for uh that there'd be a little bit of negotiation um you know in in what will come out of them ultimately um we are looking at you know dedicated affordable housing trust people who uh have an area of background and expertise that that lends itself well to the process and I think we as a board wouldn't have appointed that that um those folks to this boort if we didn't think so um again though I think when we've talked before we you know I I've talked before that this is a collaboration and that we're all well intended and the perception that there's some sort of dissension amongst us is totally wrong I think we just need to iron out this issue thanks Dean I'm good Dean I'll wait for you thank you Mr chairman I have a few questions for Town Council Mr chairman if I could okay sure Pat and I would note that there's an opinion that was disseminated to the select board today uh from Town Council um which I saw for the first time today and I requested and I think that Sher has agreed um U of the chair in the town manager's office that it be posted disclosed so it is posted I was informed this afternoon correct um Pat just a few questions uh you your previous opinions which are quoted in the agenda packets and it was referred to by the chairman um contain the advice or the strong suggestion that there be a designation from one board to the other released with respect to the property on on um Main Street because it is co-owned um early in the process I read that as practical advice as opposed to legal advice is that the correct reading um you're you're muted yep can't hear you Pat think I'd know that by now um that's correct the this is somewhat unusual situation where you have two executive boards that have a concurrent jurisdiction and interest over the development parcel you typically don't see that in in in a major project like this and in my view having been involved with these projects for an excess of 30 years the more we can streamline centralize the control and decision-making process with respect of the project the more efficient the project is likely going to proceed now again I have no course in the race of policy that's your determination as a select board and as an affordable housing trust you determined the policies that relate to this my main concern in making that recommendation was to provide for a centralized and direct chain of command for project activities such that that outside interference and uh issues don't become involved and bog the project down plain simple okay thank you my second question relates to the prospect of an executive session because it's indicated in the packet that the affordable housing trust I guess plans to go into executive session on April 29th to review the contents of proposals submitted in response to the request for proposals for the two properties in your opinion you you cite two statutes um relative to um the basis for going into executive session one is the um exception uh dealing with the uh negotiation or value of real estate um I I it's you say there an open meeting um you say that the boards either our board or the affordable housing trust board in your opinion may elect to meet an executive session may elect and you cite SE uh the pro the exception that I just mentioned you also cite section 6D of chapter 30b which de is the um procurement statute um am I reading this correctly uh if I say that the first exception isn't um would be an optional choice for the board under uh the evaluation or negotiating the sale or purchase of real estate and that the second exception and this is the one I'm more focused on frankly um where you say that quote this is from section D notwithstanding the provisions of section seven of chapter four of the general laws which is the public record statute until completion of the evaluations or until the time for acceptance specified in the request for proposals whichever occurs earlier the contents of The Proposal shall remain confidential and shall not be disclosed to competing offerors am I reading that correctly that it is a mandatory provision that would require the boards to go into executive session I'm not trying to ask a leading question I'm trying to understand that I'm what I really want to know is does the affordable housing trust board does the select board have the option of going into executive session to review these proposals or are we we required to go in and let me let me add the follow-up question I read the newspapers all the time Orleans Brewster harwitch they're discussing these proposals for affordable housing all over the papers how is it that the public is can be engaged in that process if if if these deliberations have to occur in executive session so what am I missing you're not missing anything uh anytime a board votes to go into executive session it's electing to do so it's not required to do so the the key factor that a board has to consider when going into executive session first and foremost is whether or not the purpose for which the executive session is being called Falls within one of the 10 exceptions that is set forth in uh Chapter 30 a section 21 one one of them is section A6 which as you noted allows a board when and only when its chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the board can go into executive session to discuss the exchange value lease disposition of real propit in essence that's what we have here we have issued an RFP uh so listening proposals from prospective not only land developers but also grantees of the subject property they are going to acquire title to the subject properties in exchange for a an affordability restriction that the town will retain and the terms and conditions of that transfer of Interest are entirely subject to negotiation between the parties consistent with the terms of the proposals we don't even know what the proposals are going offer as as we sit here right now we have to wait until the proposals are submitted in a couple of days to determine what what those you know developers are offering the town in my view given the disposition of the interest in Real Property that's clearly involved here any board involved in that Pro decisionmaking process would have the option of going into executive session if the chair deems it appropriate or that discussion of subject matter in Open Session could be detrimental to the town's negotiating position now with regard to the second basis upon which an executive session could be called uh chapter 30b section 6 provision of the uniform procurement act which you recited a short while ago specifically states that the proposals received pursuant to a 30b uh section 6 solicitation are to remain confidential until the evaluation period expires or until the date that's established in the RFP for the uh issuance of a final determination um that final determination date in this case I believe is June 5th of this year the the reason for that provision in 30b uh section 6 is that whenever proposals of this nature are submitted there's always room for negotiation there a lot of terms are left somewhat open to negotiation between the awarding authority and the proposer the confidentiality and the expressed prohibition against disclosing uh proposals to other competitive proposers is to maintain a Level Playing Field to maintain even ground amongst the proposers the way these processes work is the initial evaluation process by the evaluation Committee in this case will determine and who the most highly rated proposer is the board or boards collectively will then engage in discussions and negotiations with that proposer to determine whether they can reach a final agreement if they are successful in doing so end end of the deal that the the land uh development agreement Pur sale agreement indeed are ultimately executed if those discussions fail however then then you go to the next highest ranked proposer and engage in negotiations with them it would certainly be inequitable for that second proposal to have full knowledge of all of the discussions that went on with the first proposer it would certainly give that entity an advantage that the initial proposer did not have that I believe is the reason for the confidentiality requirement in 30b section 6 to maintain a level plan field amongst the various proposers who are going to be negotiating with the town boards so in that case since that provision of the uniform procurement act mandates that the proposals remain confidential for the designated period of time I believe that by inference it would be improper for any Town board or body to discuss the content of those proposals and an open session because it would undermine that very confidentiality requirement and the basis upon which the uh exceptions set forth in section 21 A7 uh is that a town must go into executive session in order to comply with a provision of General law that's what you would be doing in that particular case when and how can the public become involved if and I understand what you're saying you can't have a public public discussion if about these responses without disclosing the contents so when and how is the public involved in the process legally well it's the evaluation period uh should be conducted by in the rfps in this particular case specifically state that there will be an evaluation committee established uh presumably by the town manager that committee should engage in its activities to review and score the proposals uh before in my view uh public engagement takes place because that would again maintain the confidentiality of the proposals under 30 B6 thereafter it could be opened up to public input would it be appropriate for members of the public if they have particular concerns about issues like density or types of structures um to simp to communicate those concerns to the various boards or even to the town manager's office uh while this process is going on oh absolutely the I mean members of the public can communicate their sentiments relative to the proposed developments in any way shape or form they choose that's their right but the ultimate determination on what is to be developed on these properties lies with the executive boards who have the legal authority to enter into the land disposition Land Development agreements and the uh and to execute the Deeds that's an executive function certainly that executive function is fulfilled with uh the aid and uh benefit of public input as appropriate but um public can certainly make its sentiments uh known to the powers that be in the town but the ultimate decision will lie with the respective boards I have just two other questions we've talked about the um property at at on Main Street the property on Meeting House Road was purchased exclusively with affordable housing funds so that's in the jurisdiction of the affordable housing trust what role if any does the select board have with respect to that property is it advisory or is it um advisory By Invitation or what I I suggest the that the The Authority that's vested in affordable housing trusts by chapter 44 section 55 C is pler in nature it gives those trust as a separate and distinct entity full and Broad authority to uh develop and create affordable housing within the town um so I I I would suggest that only to the extent that the select board is the chief executive officer of the Town may be required to uh issue an approval or or certification of some type whether it's through a a subsidy program or otherwise that would be the only real role formal role that the select board would play now on the other hand select board as everyone knows is the chief executive officer of the town and I would anticipate that there would be some level of collaboration between the affordable housing trust and the select board even with regard to Concepts policy type decisions with respect to the the property but from a legal perspective strictly I believe the affordable housing trust has very broad authority to uh to develop these properties in its own right my final question relates back to the main street property and the role of the select board you uh it is it is recited in the um in the packet that um an annual town meeting in 2021 authorized the select board to convey lease up to 99 years this property uh for affordable and or retainable housing purposes on such conditions and terms and for such consideration which may be nominal as a select Port shall deem appropriate if in fact the select board were to um delegate uh its responsibilities to the affordable housing trust with respect to that property is there such a concern um in this instance of of overd Delegation legally flawed overd delegation I know that's true in other areas of the law I just wondered if that might apply in this instance if in fact the final decision- making were were to be assigned to the affordable housing trust my thought on delegation would be that it would be of a more limited basis it would be with respect to certainly the review of the development proposals for example the ultimate uh determination of who the the appropriate developer would be for the property nonetheless in My View From a legal perspective I think the select board should always retain The Authority or the jurisdiction to execute any final Land Development agreement and certainly to execute any deed or long-term lease to the property of which the select board maintains the proprietary control so would be I guess to answer your question directly it would be somewhat of a limited delegation okay thank you thank you Mr chairman uh my initial inclination is to follow suit with your suggestion Mr chairman of letting things uh stay where they are for the present and let the process go forward thank you Jeff please go ahead yeah thank you Corey yeah we've had this discussion I think this is times three um this General discussion about kind of the tug-of-war the push and poll not a tug of- War but the push and poll between the affordable housing trust and the and the board and and I I I think it swirls around um Main Street I'm not positive but and who who who who controls what where how and Main Street most notably because we do have to ultimately sign off on agreements and deeds there and I'm be honest with you that that affordable housing trust was created um we we we nominated folks and voted for them to to be on their affordable housing trust to do exactly what it is they're doing so I scratched my head a little bit wondering why we've been having this discussion number one number two I'm extremely comfortable with their having an executive session reviewing doing rfps but if we want to be involved we want to know we want to be involved the way we want to be involved why wouldn't we then ask our representatives to the affordable housing trust to report back to us in an executive session as well because we want to know what's going on we want to see what's out there and have a say um and ultimately if I understand Pat's uh I just got Pat's note I haven't haven't really had a chance to read it but if I understand this note at least at least for 1533 we're going to be asked to sign over agreements and or and in land we're going to be sign we're g to be signing delegation agreements and or signing land to a developer giving land over or on both Parcels so at some point the select board I believe is going to be asked to sign off on these I have the ultimate sign off so I'm I'm I'm real comfortable with the affordable housing trust being the being the body that opens these rfps but also comfortable with them reporting back here in executive session and so we get an update of what's going on why wouldn't why wouldn't we travel down that path well make one point of clarification I'm going let Mike respond also is um as you know we Mike myself Town Council Town manager some staff met last week and we talked about the rfps and about the executive session Concepts and um as you can tell by the time frame timeline that is printed on the on in our packet um you know I have a different I landed differently on the executive session concept you know we we were discussing having two sole separate executive sessions one for the affordable housing trust one for the select board um I struggled with that a little bit um and at the end of the day I decided against an executive session for the select board the trust is going to move forward with it pad is explain why um very clearly so procedurally is that something that can be happening yes they can have the executive session they can go through all their process as spelled out by Our Town Council um and then report back to the full board um I I've taken the position that this this this body shouldn't go in an executive session if there the board feels differently then obviously I will clearly listen to the board but procedurally right now is queued up that next week the trust is going to go into executive session the 25th is when the rfps will be we hopefully get several rfps we we have no idea how much how many what the contents are we have that is will be determined very shortly they're going to go into executive session go through that process um and then yes could they report back to the full select board yes that is that is procedurally a possibility we just follow Corey and and Pat made this point very well I thought for the reason for an executive session we wouldn't not have an executive session with rpce still being negotiated we would have to have an executive session otherwise we're doing the the respondents a disservice by airing airing their proposals so we we have to have an executive session is what I determined from Pat's comments so I'm I'm I'm one voice and um but I'm number one very very confident and comfortable with the affordable housing trust and I'm also very comfortable having them come our Representatives come back and brief us on what's going on because I think we deserve to know what's going on okay Mike please go ahead yeah well thanks Cory you took care of one of the things I wanted to say which was I I I I wanted to make it clear that when you and I talked it was my proposal not that I have any trademark on it or anything but I what I thought was the appropriate way to proceed was for both boards to get an immediate briefing on what's in any proposals that we receive affordable housing trust board here's on Monday on Tuesday the in executive session on Tuesday this board subject to your decision whether to do it or not but this this this board would be briefed exactly the same way that the affordable housing trust board had been the night before so everybody knows what's in every all the relevant boards know what's in the proposals um to me I I I appreciate you're uncomfortable with that or you have resist or reservations I I I'll I'll just leave it that I I had no purpose other than making sure that all what is it uh 10 people who sit on one or both of those boards would have exactly the same Quantum of information about the proposals promptly after they had been received the second thing I just want to follow up Dean's um line of inquiries with Pat and I want to ask Pat when you said limited um limited Juris sorry limited delegation I want to draw your attention to the recommendation in the staff memo um which talks about authorizing the delegation um to to to to delegate the project development oversight and review Authority for both projects Main Street and Meeting House Road to the affordable housing trust uh fund both Board of Trustees with final recommendation back to the select board for execution of the land disposition agreements Andor etc etc etc so in a sense what this does is it confers Authority that we actually have as the affordable housing trust back to this board at the same time it is saying that the affordable housing trust board will go forward to be the if you call it the the the the uh the spear carrier uh with respect to both projects go go work it out figure fure out what's best um do the negotiation come back to this board this select board and present that with your recommendation and the select board decides my question to you Pat is whether that is consistent with what I heard was your your your recommendation albeit not as a legal matter not as a legal opinion but just as a practical opinion uh yes it is Mike um again the goal when you have a project like this is to have a centralized and clear chain of command and how the negotiations will proceed you're dealing with developers who are in this business 247 365 days a year they know all the ins and outs we have to be sharp we have to be on our toes from a business perspective and I think that centralizing the decision making in Authority at least in those preliminary matters would ultimately be in the town's best interest again the select board will always have final uh approval Authority with respect to the land disposition agreements the execution of the Deeds for the town-owned property but um I think it would make the process strictly from a procedural perspective much more efficient if there was that centralized control thank you Jeff so I I I would I mean if we want to come to some conclusion which I wouldn't mind but um I I would recommend that um we follow the course of uh you know entrusting and empowering we already have the affordable housing trust to open the rfps and then to shortly thereafter either in a joint executive session with both boards or with our representatives and I think that's up to some discussion our representatives there too coming back to this board and briefing us on what what's going on and what the options are or aren't what's out there I I'm very comfortable with that I I don't know what else to say and I'll move one of the other after I hear back from the rest of you different thoughts I mean and the only thing I I forgive me foring in here but I I do think before we take any action we should hear from the we are going to yeah we and and and in in full transparency we had a little back and forth about joint uh executive sessions um there's some elements of it that we were landing on an agreement we're landing on dis disagreement um but it was a conversation that was had you know and but again that's unknown to me till right no in Fair in Fair and that that's why I'm putting it out there being transparent with it um and again we had some dialogue Pat was explaining um you know some legal elements of the situation um and again at the end of the day I landed on Executive session was not the right mechanism for the select board to be taken from my that was my position and and that's a decision I made last week um and this is why it's not in the timetable so just to be as transparent as possible that's where we are from my my perspective appreciate that Cory thank you n so I am going to open up to the board anyone in the public would like to speak Mr Taylor Mr chairman uh members of the board Seth Taylor uh Taylor Lane I Rise uh to speak to you tonight as a tax payer and a voter and those are distinctly different um individuals although there's quite a bit of overlap they have different concerns and Mr chairman I've heard tonight three maybe four times you use the word transparency or the word transparent and as a taxpayer I'm offended by the lack of transparency in what is being proposed and I say that because we're looking at what may have been accidental or may have been intentional I don't know I haven't been privileged to what's going on but there's a big difference between an RFQ and an RFP an RFQ being a request for quote when we know what we want to buy and we ask someone to sell it to us or build it for us and where an RFQ is involved the general public is fully aware of what their taxes are going to go to purchase for affordable housing it would mean that in advance of developing these two properties we knew that there would be single structures with four apartments in each the general scope and scale of the project the general appearance potential of them if it was limited to two stories or three simple things that may occur to people who are concerned with efficiency that the general public shouldn't worry their silly little heads about but as a taxpayer I do worry my silly little head about what is being done with my money and in my name and the notion that an RFP needs to be concealed and protected we understand that but to build a system where ultimately What lands on these properties is going to be almost in the bank before the general public can understand it is an offense to a taxpayer an offense I hope to all the taxpayers in this town not to belabor that point I won't go further but it is it is a problem it is not transparency Mr chairman and it is not transparency members of the board on the issue of appearing here as a voter we the voters of the town can appear annually or as you D appropriate to town meetings where we can voice our opinion we even have the right to petition to create new laws for the town and for you guys to follow and every year we get to elect or reelect two or one of you to serve as our Representatives we do not vote for appointed committees and as a voter I'm offended by the notion that a minority member of members of the select board and appointed individuals will be making closed door decisions instead of open decisions where the general public can review what they're doing and what they're saying saying and how they're acting on our behalf or whether they're even acting on our behalf at a minimum there should be three members of the board of selectman on the affordable housing trust and nothing should advance from that body unless all three of those members of The Bard of selectman are in agreement because you folks our elected officials are the only only ones when you act in a majority of three have our trust to proceed with anything that compromises we the people of this town you can do what you're planning right now I've listened to Pat and it's it's an interesting and a very clever workaround I will I will I will put that there and again maybe it's intentional maybe it's accidental I heard him talk about the fact that we're looking for efficiencies you know what happened to 1610 Main Street was a mess let's not have that happen again huh um that's a problem with democracy folks but we are not in a totalitarian government and you folks need to be more sensitive to the fact that we the people that put you in those spots have a vested interest in open government and clearly understanding what is being done in our name and how it's being done I wish no offense but this is a very very slippery slope you're walking down and it's a usurpation of the people's trust in my opinion if you advance without a more open opportunity for the people to be fully aware of what's going to be developed on these properties ities I appreciate your time this evening and um I wish you good luck with your deliberations however they may be thank you Mr Taylor anyone else in the audience with a David if you want to step up I I want to make it a step up I just I been I was uh expecting a member of the trust to step up I want to be very clear you're the firstand up perfectly fine no problems if a fourth member of the trust wants to speak I will not call on them because I can't knowingly open up a conversation with the majority of the trust but this is not a trust posted meeting so you're the first one up you're perfectly fine but I just want to put it out there it's it's I was expecting something like this to happen so just to be feir you're perfectly fine but I'm sorry to the rest of the trust members um I can't allow a quorum of the board to deliberate so well I'm David op I hav't been called per perfectly fine in a while so that's thank you um we went in front of the town meeting several times for a separate affordable housing trust several times it was attached to something else that was finally approved we have an affordable housing trust speaking personally I volunteered for it because uh I've been our family's been involved with affordable housing for years I've been in the building and development and business for over 50 years and felt that I had something to offer uh the board of selectman has many things to do um everything from daytime liquor license to to financing and everything else and couldn't devote the time that the affordable housing trust so this uh once it was voted a town meeting and approved by the legislature you chose the most qualified people you did a good job with qualified people in my opinion we have cath Carol mlen on it who's has a habitat house she's she's the head of our uh uh committee for housing community housing uh trust I think for affordable housing um lesle schne berer is on the board of um habitat for house and she's an architect she's excellent Bruce Bean's been involved with affordable housing for years she was on your original affordable housing trust when it was the selectman with two at large members um we have a good group and we have Dove we dove in we all had levels of expertise and then we found out that we had a lot more to learn and we have Gloria mcferson who's our housing and I hope I have the right ter terms housing coordinator she's done an amazing job helping us learn the process and understand what we have to do and how we have to go about it she's brought in experts from CDP Community Development who's been doing all on the l cap for years housing assistance Corp k k commission we've had State people down we're all learning some of us go to seminars on these things and understand so we can understand and develop the expertise and I'm sure there are people in this town that are very very knowledgeable on particular things as a board I I'm very comfortable saying our affordable housing trusts at this point Have Become I don't even want to use the word but have more expertise than any board has had in this town on affordable housing at this point in time and we and we will have lots to learn going forward the next learning step for us is to see what comes out of an RFP and there's a lot of misconceptions that there hasn't been and reactions to people I know for example I had somebody call me up after we had one of the meetings where they had the those two sort of model looking conceptual things which personally I think I wish we hadn't done in some ways but that's what we had to look at and they said well you wanted the 60 unit thing I said No my only comment that I made myself was I liked the closeness of those buildings to the street I thought it gave was better for the neighborhood center I didn't com comment on the density at all I've made no decisions on Den density personally that's why we're getting professionals to make proposals the what I do know because I have been involved with some of the companies not these particular ones building but other other affordable housing in other areas people making the S they're going to go for the most they can get not necessarily I mean they have to make a living they're entitled to make a living uh they have to get certain types of financing and things like this I would like to see what their creative talents are before we make any judgment and I think we've established the expertise to do that um I there was a suggestion I don't know if it's on the table or suggested about staff doing this there's nobody on our staff that has more expertise than our housing coordinator and our our affordable housing trust we're the experts now for the town doesn't mean we're we're not looking for input we're definitely looking for I'm trying to get input from people every single day when I talk about affordable housing I was looking for in for for people when we did the crawl Roadhouse on affordable housing we're do and we're continuing to look for it I said this at one other meeting let us do our job we're going to work with select we're not going to do anything there are laws as Pat said with regards to confidentiality for competition things like that those make sense I've never thought we weren't going to be dealing with the board of Selectmen on shall we say not not just the shared um and I don't know if I'm saying this right our shared overview of the Buckley property because some was bought Town funds and some with affordable housing so there's a we need to do it together and we should do it together and we should come up with something but what's also clear is we're not going to satisfy everybody some people are we're not going to satisfy the people that want the most that you can fit on anything and we're not going to satisfy the people that want the least what we're going to do is address housing do our job which is to address the housing needs in this town the best way we can you appointed us the idea that it has to be elected officials we have a board of appeals that makes decisions every day they're appointed we plan boards we have all these types of things and the you know we we go for zoning bylaw changes to town meeting but we don't go to the board board of appeals decisions are not questioned you know somebody has the right to appeal it's a long process and all I ask is you appointed us I think you appointed a good board I think you appointed I don't know how many I think there's probably been 98% attendance at meetings of our board I don't know if I missed one I think Bruce Bez missed one and I think somebody else missed one but we're all there all the time and that's at the meetings um Gloria is always trying to give us more information get us more expertise and we've we've all learned together not just about affordable housing but how to work together as a team to try to make something happen let us do our job thank you so another hand yes good evening board can you hear me all right yes um Paula wisman Kendrick Road thank you for your service first of all um I know I you probably saw my email and yes I'm I'm being tough but um this is our little town um and those rfps can be still be protected and still shown to the people you just take the names out and you guys when you do your analysis because I'm a businesswoman I've I've run businesses before it's just like a business it's a proposal you you put out put out a spreadsheet company a company a doesn't have to have a name and just what you found was positive about that company company B what's positive about this company company C what's positive about that company so that we the people can see what's going on we do have every white right and we do trust you to do this and we want you to do it right but our little town is our little town and we love it here okay so we want we want it to be the the the beautiful quain town that it's been for so long and yes we want to have affordable housing we want to have affordable housing that is for the people that can't afford housing okay so some of the some of the regulations are kind of dicey you know they you know it's going to maybe 1% of the town and is it by by um lottery or some something excuse me if I don't know the exact terms um and I could be wrong but if I remember a while back there was something about Lottery okay so so to me those rfps can be publicized you protect the companies and that's not hard to do um and also we do have a right to know what's going up you know there there were those wonderful displays put up by a couple of companies that showed beautiful facilities um but you do have to answer to us okay and and we do expect you to do that thank you thank you any additional members of the audience um how many hands do we have online just one miss Gibs elae please go ahead thank you Mr chairman um yeah I I don't even know were to begin on this I am really surprised at the um saying that it has to that basically the bottom line is as of today we will not know the public will not know what design you have chosen until after it's been basically offered under because of the procurement of uh 30 B6 uh I I can't imagine how anyone could think that's okay under 30 B6 the procurement is for General rfps that would be like when we went out on the Wells Wells five and eight and said we want a treatment plant everybody knew what they were supposed to build they were basically given this is what we want this is what we need and it was based on cost I've been I've been to I've attended remotely every single affordable housing trust meeting uh and the other the other Housing Authority Etc um I I find it amazing that we could say that a group of people that are not elected would make that decision and we cannot see it the rfps were really clear if you've read them for meeting house it was open-ended it's not just building a well it's saying density anywhere from 34 up to Infinity um different style houses Etc you're going to if you get in three proposals they're all going to be totally different they're going to cost different and and it said in the rfps that the the boards would have the ability to choose it not based on price but on design and all those other uh criteria and um or they could reject them all so I don't think 30 uh B6 even applies and I and I think that it's really important that the the town who we're we're going to be expected to pay for this we're going to be expected to live with this and I have attended the meetings and I've asked many questions and I've never gotten the answers and I would debate that some of the people who come in there as experts know what they're talking about at the last meeting they couldn't even Define what year year round housing meant in affordable housing so in terms of not allowing us to see it I think you're going to have a real problem this is our town we're going to be expected to pay for it we're going to be expected to write a huge check and we're going to be expected to live with the consequences um in terms of taking any vote tonight as to giving authority to the affordable housing again I have a real problem with that the affordable housing trust has their own mission and objectives and they're very narrow it's affordable housing the select board is responsible to the town you were elected officials not appointed and you're elected to protect the interests of the entire town and the voters and in that it is it you have to look at the things not just the costs uh but the water that's going to be used the density the traffic what it's going to do to our taxes and we expect that so at the very minimum if you go into executive session I believe it should be a joint meeting at the beginning not having the affordable housing report back to you I think everybody should be in on that meeting but I think it's premature the rfps are coming in I think Mr Shell said next week they're coming in the day after tomorrow April 25th is the date and the executive session is on the 29th our needs assessment has to be done every five years the last time it was done was in 2018 and there's been a lot of public forums and questions and everything we're not going to receive those results until May 22nd at minimum how can you even choose a developer until you know what the needs assessment is they're the ones that are going to determine oh well you need a lot of one-bedrooms or you need a lot of two-bedrooms or you need families unless you think that it it's just an act of you know doing it just because we're required to by law the needs assessment should be looked at before any decisions are made um so I think that uh you've got to rethink this we've been told there was going to be transparency people ask questions um we don't get the answers and now to hear this that we may never even know and that a group of unelected people are going to make a decision on our behalf and then tell us how much it's going to cost us we don't get to say anything about the design how many units how much traffic what the parking's going to look like how it's going to get funded we're just going to be told this is it and that is not the way to do business that is wrong and I think that if you even consider giving that kind of authority to an unelected body at this point it is way way premature so I hope you will reconsider I and the other thing is nobody even knew this meeting tonight was going to happen until Friday at 4:00 when it was posted on the agenda I think that's wrong too that's why nobody's in the room because nobody knew about it nobody knew you were even going to consider this tonight and that's just another example of the lack of transparency which I I find um you want us to trust you but when I see this kind of action when this is going to affect every facet of our life um and we want it to be for Town employees for example you know they could come in with Amis the two criteria that they used were to make sure the Builder could make enough money okay and um density th those were and to stay within the Ami of 80 to 120% nothing about uh the quality of life or or bringing in families and what's going to happen if and it's imp deed imp perpetuity there are so many questions what happens when we turn land over to the developer and he goes bankrupt we have no control anymore or we find out we don't need those 80 uh to 120% Amis we need to provide housing for people who want to age in place market rate we want to offer it to town employees because they would not qualify otherwise their incomes are too high all of these questions you're pushing this so fast you want to get it done you can either get it done fast or you can get it done right and I am concerned that the way this is going you just want to get it done and it's not going to turn out well and it's it's going to be really unfortunate for the town so uh those are my comments right now I hope you don't take a vote tonight I think it's way premature you need to wait for the needs assessment and you need to at least for the select board to see what the rfps even say and I would also say that I don't believe 30 B6 applies in this situation and I think that we have a right to see these before any decision is made thank you very much thank you Miss scops I do not see any other hands online so I'm going to go back to the board excuse me oh yes Gloria Hicks Meeting House Road you know we started this a long time ago and the thing that was discussed at nauseum was the density um that's that's been everybody's you know dirty word um the rfps went out by the trust without a parameter for a maximum on the density you saw the outcry from that so on the one hand we're hearing about inclusion and we want to hear from the public and includ you know it's important is it because it doesn't feel that way sitting where we're sitting um and with all due respect you know you talk about the board not being divided and divisive you can feel it it's palpable in these last meetings when we've been talking about this um there's a real power struggle going on here and I have to agree with the two other speakers which is the other point I was going to bring up is the select board our elected officials we put you in the chairs that you're in to represent the people I think the trust and all the other committees should report to the board the board should have the ultimate say you are the governing body of the Town um and to be perfect ly blunt I'm sorry but I I feel like the trust has far too much power I feel like the trust doesn't answer to anyone um I don't know why there are two select board members on the trust why isn't there one um because you've got two select board members that are on the trust and they get to have their say on the board as well you cannot be impartial you cannot be unbiased you voted the way you voted on the trust and then you're bringing all of that to the select board so the way that it's set up I I just don't understand and this is an important conversation that we're having and I don't think there should be a vote this needs to be discussed for for a little bit here this is important because this sets the stage for how to do business going forward um and the other thing I have to bring up is the transparency I'm not feeling things being transparent um and the other before I get into that I I just once these proposals go to a developer the town no longer has control the developer has control for these projects so it's so important that's why it was so important for the rfps and the other issue I have with um the trust is a conversation that I saw I think it was on March 12th um the trust was talking about the old Harbor site there's been a lot of discuss discussion about that and it's been handled very differently than what's going on in my neighborhood um Mr oppenheim said that he didn't want to see quote a lot of density at Old Harbor well I'm seeing a lot of density in South chatam you've got the meeting house parcel next right on one house over you've got the other piece on mainst street that I don't know if you've purchased or you haven't purchased but if in fact the trust does purchase that property I do believe it affects the density and can increase the density for Meeting House correct me if I'm wrong um so when I hear I mean to hear that I was just like it was predictable but it was stunning to sit in the meeting and hear it if you need housing you need housing and if you need housing you need it everywhere correct old Harbor should not be treated any differently than South chadam Main Street or where you're purchasing at the uh the cemetery the acreage there that kind of conversation that kind of bias is so inflammatory to Residents all over town um if you if you need the housing you need the housing you know it's like yes we you know we're doing this we we absolutely have to have the housing but only in certain parts of town and is all of the affordable housing going in one small area of South chadam I realize there's property there I realize that the cost for those properties or less than other parts of town but there are other Parcels all over town as well so when you talk about density it's not just meeting house it's not just Main Street it's the density in a particular area of town that is to be considered as well so I hope you spend time a lot of time thinking about this because the select board is our governing body and everything should go to them thank you thank you just want to clarify one thing the new affordable housing trust um was specifically designed with two members of the select board one member of the Housing Authority for at large people so that this was the a town meeting implemented um process so that is that is why there are two members of the select board present on the on the new trust I also uh I know Pat Salon also I just want to just put everything on our on the table is we also have a legislation pending to create a chadam Housing Trust and I if Pat could just take one moment just to explain what what exactly that means um and what is what that will clarify or impact the the the process moving forward sure Mr chairman the the pending legislation we have would would enhance the authority of the affordable housing trust to basically allow it to develop both affordable and attainable housing uh beyond the strictures of the of the current General law statute it it would in essence broaden the scope of jurisdiction that the trust would have over proposed housing developments all right thank you uh Shireen um thanks Corey I just wanted to clarify you know the the um RFP process um the rfps were written based on public engagement a public engagement process that lasted quite a quite a while I I think we were 6 months maybe nine months going through that that included a series of forums surveys and the board the trust the the trust took that serious when the rfps were being written and I just want to make that clear um to the public that it that that was that was the way the process went de just had to F follow up for pat on the the legislation so I don't know if the legislation has been has has it's not been passed yet but it's pretty close to passage it's in third reading in the Senate the original legislation that was authorized by town meeting a few years ago included the current structure of the affordable housing trust as the chair just outlined is that still in the um final version that's it's in other words it would codify in statute what the town what town meeting codified in our bylaw in terms of the composition of the current composition of the trust is that correct that's correct okay um and I just wanted to ask one other question back to section 6D because um uh I I wasn't familiar with that section in you know I heard about it in this context so as much as I would like nothing more than to have these rfps discussed publicly I feel like I'm stuck by that section is that in other words that limits that prevents me from doing that well I think the C in an intelligent way because you can't really have an intelligent conversation about rfp's responses if you if you're if you can't disclose the contents of them the Sal proposals Dean as you know can relate to supplies and services and the rfps indicated that they were being issued pursuant to general laws chapter 30b didn't specify specific sections but the content of the RFP clearly indicates the town is soliciting proposals whereby we would be exchanging title to property for development uh services and improvements to that property so I think that 30b section 6 would be applicable in that sense and when it comes to discussing confidential content of of the proposals I you know certainly any board could engage in a public discussion and be General about what proposals may contain again I think the underlying purpose of that language in section six is to maintain a Level Playing Field amongst the proposers and it expressly says that the prop the contents of The Proposal shall not be disclosed to competing offerers so does that mean a board can't say anything publicly whatsoever about the scope nature or extent of the proposals I would suggest not but I think that the there would have to be due diligence and not disclosing content that that could violate that provision section six it could be a general discussion on the proposals did I hear you say that the rfps um within their for Corners did say they were being issued pursuant to 30b yes okay thank you Mike yeah a couple things here I I um you're going down a road pth here that that is certainly in my mind um at at the risk of I I think that problems get solved better when there's less law and more you know get together and and work it out together uh in the process but uh there there is a principle in law at least in deciding cases that you don't decide hypotheticals you don't decide cases without all the facts in front of you and I think that we're I I I want to reiterate that I think whoever it is I don't care whether it's this board or the affordable housing trust board or a collection of people off the street who end up deciding um and and evaluating the proposals they are going to be saddled with the challenge of making sure that what they decide and how they go about getting to a a a decision on on whom to select and how to negotiate with whom they select they have to figure out a way to get input from the public that is precise uh and is focused on on some of the things that that they see in those proposals and you know I can't tell you exactly how that is likely to go but I absolutely think appropo what where Dean was headed a little bit uh and where you were headed generally that um it will be incumbent on that part that that agency to figure out ways to get input without necessarily in fact without disclosing the specific terms to which they're seeking input um and and responses from from the public um it's I think going to end up being something of an iterative uh process um and and I I think that um at least as far as I'm concerned and as far as my leadership of the affordable housing trust board um is concerned that that will be an integral part of what we we try to do going forward um I I want to make one other comment here um generally I think this has been a productive um session and we've gotten some really good input from from people I I I want to and I don't want to get into a debate with anybody but I do want to say that the the the basic program here is the town is offering land on some basis in exchange potentially for some money but in exchange definitely for a development plan for the land from which the town takes back a uh a a a a Perpetual um affordability uh limitation or restriction on the land there there is no concept going in that the town is going to be asked to write a check now that could happen but that is not the plan here at going into it and indeed one of the reasons that we structured the rfps the way that we did was we wanted to maximize the prospect of getting proposals that were self financing okay m tson m tempson good can you hear me yes um I just have one question I you've already received an email from me based on everything I've heard heard I guess my question would be more directed towards Mr Costello is there a possibility that since the bone of contention that is greatest is density and I think that's where the public and your boards are having some issues is there any way legally that we could segregate the plan and design part of the proposals from names from estimates from anything else uh just so that the public at least had an idea of what was going to go on that piece of property um that's all I have to say I hope you will think about that and maybe Mr Costello could opine a little on that Pat do you want to give a thought sure uh yeah as previously noted I I do think that once the proposals are received that the board could engage in general public discussion about the nature of the proposals let's put it that way I think the pre previous speaker made a good point if we were to segregate the specifics of proposals or speak in more in generality in terms of the nature of design or you know density seems to be a big word but I mean without tying them to any particular proposal I I think a a very compelling argument could be made that we're not disclosing the quote unquote content of any particular proposal so that's something we could certainly give thought to and try to structure down the road thank you Pat all right what does the board's desire I I we have and and by the way uh I stand correct that U Miss Gibbs is right it's the day after tomorrow uh that we're going to receive those proposals I I I think to continue a discussion in the in in the fashion that has been suggested is an imposition that we should not um impose on the on on the people who are making proposals to us if we are going to have proposals and on that basis I I would like to propose um to move uh to adopt the um the the the resolution that's set forth in the recommendation in the staff memo the very last page page four put your recommend Yes actually I'll need a is there a second there's no second I'll second it okay and the motion is should the board decide should the board decide to authorize the delegation staff respectivly suggest the following motion move to delegate project development oversight and review authority to of z533 Main Street and zero Meeting House Road to the affordable housing trust Board of trust trustees with final recommendation back to the select board for execution of the land disposition agreement or agreements and for other legal documents instruments comma as identified by Town Council that is the recommendation as printed for in their packet so we have a motion we have a second further discussion Dean Mr chairman I cannot support that motion tonight um I've said in previous meetings that um I would certainly consider delegation uh and I understand the Practical advice the Town Council has offered but I feel like I'm being asked to make a delegation blindly and prematurely because I don't know what's in the responses no one knows what's in the responses and will know no one will know until after two days hence so I think this is just a little premature and I I don't think it's really I don't think we really need to do anything tonight thank you Mr chairman okay um I will chime in I am not going to um vote in favor of this motion I do think I I'm more inclined not to take a vote at all tonight um it would be my preference um you know I think we could we you know we we've we've discussed we even um tossed around the idea of a joint um you know executive session um that didn't seem to be amendable to all parties um I think we I'm not looking for a power struggle but I feel an obligation to maintain our independence to some level um in this process and do it in as um professional manner as possible um but I will not support this motion so why then we do we appoint an affordable housing trust and why did T meeting approve it times three why do we seek applicants that are talented and smart and know how to negotiate with developers why did we go all through that and that's not a rhetorical question I'd like an answer I'll answer it thank you how can you expect me to vote to delegate to another body complete control over I understand there's some limitations maybe it's less than complete but I I don't even know what's been offered to the town uh you know I'm perfectly willing to sit in on an executive session whether it's joint with the uh affordable housing trust or whether there's an executive session subsequently to to next whenever you're going to meet for the select board as you suggested Jeff but I'm I I can't vote something blindly like that I don't think I don't think that's responsible on my part I understand what you're saying and the public should know that the trust was set up by by the by by town meeting meeting and it's town meeting that funds the affordable housing trust so they have some controls over What's Done by the trust but that's my that's my thinking I I I I I just like to point out my term on the affordable housing trust ends on June 30th so I I you know this board is more than free to to to make a change and there's at least one other uh or two others that that change at that time so the notion of control here I mean if you want to get into all the details of it this board has control my term expires on May 16th Jeff go ahead yeah I I I would I I actually prefer having a an executive session um shortly after receiving that I know that the Housing Trust is getting in Thursday and they'll have a session on Monday I I think we ought to have an executive session on Tuesday really do I think that's the way to go keeps us wrapped in um informed um whether it's uh with uh my Representatives reporting back or whether it's a full full meeting or whatever of the affordable housing trust and the board of selectman in executive session I'm I'm very comfortable with that approach um so I'm probably not going to vote for this and and I would make that a motion should it fail thanks well I I I if we could have a as a board an executive session to look at the proposals next Tuesday great uh I'm I'm more than happy to withdraw the motion and I'll withdraw my second so I will make that a motion Mr chairman second making a motion for the select board to have an independent executive session along with the affordable housing trust independent or jointly jointly you don't want to do that no no no no no we we'll we will get as many members of the affordable housing trust to that meeting on Tuesday night as we can for the for the joint executive session I honestly think that's the way to go Court it I I I hope we can do it at the beginning of the meeting so they can leave and they don't have to hang around until the end of the meeting okay motion second discussion clarification you know this is something that we discussed and there was some push back on it I wasn't there Court I know I know and this is this is I'll be very honest I was the source of the push back I'm withdrawing the push back okay if the board is so inclined to do that I will support it I still have reservations about it I understand where Pat's going from board procedurally I know it if that's what the board's so desire is then I will support it but I do note my reservations you know because I do think the Optics of it I understand the legal elements that are putting it that are allowing us to do this but I still think the Optics um are all of great uh concern to me so can I ask a question what is the intention if we have a joint session is the intention then to place this item back on our agenda that that evening is that your plan I'm not asking for that I'm I'm sorry I the chair can do what he and will do what he has discretion to do okay but that's not part of my as far as I'm concerned the only purpose and my only objective here is to have a an executive session where this board is fully apprised of what's in the okay offers and I was and I was supporting the executive session under the fact that all members of the both boards or all that are going to attend we'll get the same information at the same amount of time so staff doesn't have to duplicate anything with um and that we take that information and we figure out what the following steps are you know from from there I'm I'm more comfortable in that manner so we have a motion we have a second further discussion all those in favor select member necastro I select member Davis Hi s member dyens i s member shell I and S member will say I all right thanks thank you all right item D Electric Vehicle EV public charging station policy we're still going to have okay let's make sure that's clear here excuse me now ter no Terry go ahead if you're not finished no just tell me when when you're ready well hopefully we'll uh for what this is worth I think we can categorize this as a first draft discussion so just just little ease yes yeah hopefully hopefully this is more just a straightforward perspective so um again Terry whan U well I didn't say I didn't introduce myself I will introduce myself now Terry whan principal projects and operations administrator and uh in your package you do have u a staff report and um some uh um additional information attached but I'm going to just I put this quick slide presentation together to kind of hit some of the high points of again what really is a uh intended to be a broad broad policy and again the background ground this really comes from uh with public um EV public charging stations and projects underway and planned in chadam there's a need to establish a broad policy covering the multiple management aspects and I just want to point out thanks to Kathy and Katie uh the town manager's executive assistant and Katie uh the community development director conducted in putting together aspects of this uh presentation that are helping um inform the uh policy that we're putting forward here for potential approval um we just have some information here on so building on that point I I hopefully got across that you know we're we're imminently um moving into the U public charging realm and Katie can speak on some more details here but we have a great infographic here on um the uh charging aspects of the um chatter meld garage Redevelopment the parking lot and some of the charging um components of that um and again also just for um maybe a refresher for some as we've talked on not only uh this proposal but the uh um proposal that'll be going for town meeting for the airport commission so we've got a mix of level uh level two and level three or in this instance level three and level two um depending on which way you want to look at it but uh so again the the level threes are the um faster uh charging items um to stations um and then the level twos are the within the 1 to six hour range I got to ask a question I'm sorry but why would you why do you then bother with a level two why would you bother the costs are pretty dramatically different and and the and I just don't know and the subsidies okay thanks just one other question while you have those the names down below I take are the vendors that are sure that's part that's that's the team for the Eldridge Eldridge garage project okay and are are I are they all local some of them local how does that work yeah so you know catalyst is a cape firm uh they've presented before uh one of the Reps from uh rmore has has a um summer home in in chatam or a visitor I forget exactly uh Olstead design who we worked with also uh J homestead's firm and then Weston and Samson who we work with routinely so um you know a team definitely versed with um you know or well-versed in the local conditions here in chadam thank you so again just really the purpose of this uh proposed policy is to again to create this management management framework to operate maintain and recover costs associated with owning EV public charging stations that are made available to the public to charge their own personal electronic excuse electric vehicles covering the aspects including what the policy will do will establish the authority to set and collect fees implementing a fair and Equitable fee schedule setting operation parameters and enable enforcement and really just you know in abroader again I pointed out in the staff report but just looking at it again even in the context of a couple other documents and just really pointing out that uh these provision of public charging ation just really do uh support the town's commitment to uh Environmental Conservation Coastal resiliency and natural resources goal that the select board has articulated where they mentioned uh uh decarbonization initiatives and the energy and climate action committee's road map area of attention also focusing on reducing uh greenhouse gas emissions so and here just again some mechanics of what goes into you know setting a fee um basically the the fees we looked at and and Kathy did a great job of U canvasing uh communities around the Commonwealth uh the bulk of the communities use uh the dollar per kilowatt hour approach uh that's what we're um proposing here that we would set a fee according to that um you know like any business venture Enterprise we've been looking at the um the inputs the the town cost to supply of electricity uh any payment or processing fees for uh the stations are Wi-Fi linked to um to accounting programs uh there are some costs with maintaining Network licenses and then maintenance and warranty agreements so all of those items are need to be factored in here into the the development of a fee so that um it can be structured to recover some some of the costs and the the policy also will provide uh the ability to post operating policies or primarily sign for limitations on EV parking other restrictions um and charging duration so here we just have some some examples of signage that tries to get at uh some of those parameters so there's a lot of different examples so we can um uh formalize that uh I also on the far uh right as you're looking at the screen have the blue um you know a directional or wayfinding signage might be something we also want to consider in addition to um many of the um the vendors uh have apps where you can search online but um maybe if you were just driving around as well might be helpful to have some wayfinding signage as well so we've seen a couple of examples of uh you know not only uh signage related to the operational parameters but wayf finding signage or even even different descriptive signage um with letters um directing folks to charging stations we did have a conversation uh via email anyway with uh Chief Anderson regarding uh enforcement aspects um that and they're they're looking into ways to integrate this into the new electronic uh parking ticket system right now they know they can definitely do it using an other category but they're working to see to get this that they can get a charging uh violation um element in into the system so more to come on that but um the chief also out might want to consider a Tollway uh at the owner's um expense option and then those signs I showed you earlier he also reminded us that any sign that indicates violation has to has the uh must include the fine amount so that that's something again I believe um that might have came up in the discussion with the when they were talking about the system and the stickers they've been putting on the no parking signs uh throughout town so really the the next steps here and again this is really you know again intended to be the the first step the introductory policy setting our our uh framework so that we can develop a proposed free schedule set parameters for chatam specific signs and then monitor implementation so as this is a new venture or Enterprise again envisioning there might be uh you know based on use or other parameters competition locations sites you know we might want to be creative with um different rates at different Loc different types of uh models as we move forward so again the the policy is really intended to be flexible so that we can um you know adopt uh a fee schedule or schedules depending on locations and different parameters as we move forward uh question um like when in a situation with like the elders garage but I know we we we've identified EV stations down there um and if we do the charging weever you know uh collection po program we put together there will be I would assume there'll be some kind of notification saying hey you know your car is ready to charge or I think I understand some of the cars thes themselves actually tell you hey I'm charged I mean the technology out there is crazy but in a situation with that would we want to discuss with the valet service about if someone were charging a car probably they're going to go shopping dining whatever would we then have the valet relocated out of the charging area into a parking space as part of a service separate from what we're charging I mean there's some there's some elements that we could play with um I mean honestly places like the fish Pier they're going to be a dedicated spot or if we have a downtown location dedicated spot Community Center dedicated spot but in a situation with elder garage uh we going to have to have some um you know discussions with the vendor um about how that interacts with their business I think it's a great point but I think I'll defer to Katie on that as she's the um um get the most experience with that aspect of that contract or how that where that might go sure uh thank you um so my suggestion would be that we have a conversation with the parking service manager about what their comfort level is um my understanding is that they really haven't been doing as much valet recently only because um once um or during Co they were not getting in people's cars so I think they've been more direct people um and then again you know they may get back into valet but we are actually going out um for um again for an RFP for parking Management Services um I my assumption is that chadam valet will uh apply but I don't know that they will will be the will be the you know chosen vendor so do you have a date on when that RFP is going out because I heard they're interested yes then yes it's um advertised for um next Monday April 29th the expectation is that um the parking or the building the construction will be done at the end of May beginning of June and so they um we're expecting that we would execute an agreement sometime um by the middle of June for services for this coming summer right shine um thank you thank you Terry I I think you know in looking at this is a new project for chadam and we're not sure of all the nuances that you had suggested that whatever we do it's consistent of across the board there's no like subtle parking fees difference anywhere or any signage difference the signs even seeing those three different signs I was like too many signs you know that they're consistent but I think we should keep it as simple as possible going forward until we get a better understanding of of um how flexible we can be uh what are the demands of the consumers and um you know who's using it I mean I I heard from one of our uh citizens today that they felt that this was just going to be for visitors and and second homeowners quite frankly we have a you know we have people that work downtown and they're going to want to be utilizing that um these areas as well uh so I I find that that's you know maybe not as true as as was being presented so simple keep it simple yeah and I I guess maybe if I can I just I was pointing out that that there is flexibility if we move in in a Continuum and in a broader parking scheme management or you find that we want to charge you know different rates different times different locations to impact so that it doesn't preclude that so that was something that after you know we did bounce this off the um ecac again as something that we might want to look the energy and climate action committee sorry uh you know for um something to consider so that we didn't we wrote that policy so it doesn't preclude uh kind of creative fee structures and the but again those would be based on experience is what we're seeing and the parking committee working group is that still in existence and have they weighed in you haven't met in a while but I would imagine you'd V we're waiting for the report back from okay has the update on that Yes actually um I had a meeting late last week and I was going to be reaching out to the parking sh parking shist working group to set up a next meeting um in the next month good I I would like to hear from them before we can this be included in that in on that agenda we could include this on that agenda yes yeah um Mr chairman sure just um Terry I I know this is a first reading for us and we're obviously going to get some additional information from the working group um I I just had a s a suggested addition under the policy on page two the items that the matters that the I guess the town manager would be considering when she establishes the fee schedule uh in the fourth line where it says Network licenses at the end I would add other operating or maintenance costs incurred to incurred by the town not just those that relate to the agreements okay sure thank you um I don't know I can't read my notes there was a question asked by um citizen at the very beginning I have 30% EV and some kind of scribble there was a question that was going to we were going to ask you that was asked earlier in this evening do you recall yeah I apologize I didn't catch that question as I was uh coming in as well that person's in the room still so would you like to step up and reiterate your question so I that way we can cut the translation part of it out rather than yes all right the electric cars are 30% heavier than their gas counterparts I was so they put 30% more uh wear and tear our infrastructure and then we have an $11 million Bridge so I was kind of wondering if we're going to put a tax on that to compensate for the weant te okay thank you yeah I'm not sure I get I don't really have an answer to that not understanding what Authority the town may let me help you I I think that may come within the the confines of the suggestion that Dean made which is other operating costs I mean you want to take a look and see if there are uh whether it's depreciation infrastructure maintenance whatever that that um you know we're aware of and can quantify and that goes into the the the costing great so that's a great way to cover that for um consideration additional thoughts at the moment just a couple I mean how do we have any idea how many total charging stations we'd like to have in the town of chadam do we pay for them we get grants to pay for them I think of what I've heard in the past the recent past um especially across the street potentially is that a fair statement or not and and yeah I think um and I tried to relay in the staff report so again not to speak for the the ECA energy and climate action committee but they also did talk about the need for a plan so you know of having a more form and again in my uh you know and I I'll defer to Katie as well again I think there's some natural um uh synergies with the the the parking working solution group looking at that you know we have some locations that we've identified but um you know as we go forward as technology changes or uh the market changes you know we we might need to I I think the the key word here is flexibility and openness to to progress It's my understanding though that Elder's garage would have one or two or three or whatever right have K all right so so there's actually six units there's two level twos that each have two ports that can Char so they can charge two cars a piece the level threes there's four of those they can only charge one car at a time they're just they they're they're bigger to um there's you know more inner workings for the the fast charging potentially eight Vehicles could be Char eight eight Vehicles we have the the requisite conduit and the electricity the service there and everything that was all part of the built into the design so again as the concept was approved with EV charging that was all part of the design that dream team was extremely preent okay any questions at this stage all right well thank you for the update okay and we'll well I guess we'll make that revision as as suggested and we will um continue with follow-up readings thank you thank you all right get my right paper all right we have uh appointments we're going to start with Council on Aging board of directors uh I'll entertain a motion uh we have actually only one candidate Mr chairman yes please um we recently interviewed an Ryan I moved to appoint Anne Ryan as a member of the council and aging board of directors until June 30th 2027 unless soon a revoked or a successor is appointed do I hear a second second okay further discussion all those in favor select Bo member ni Castro iard member Davis iard member dyens iard member shell i s member met says I Mr chairman yes please um I move to appoint Jonathan Avery as a member at large on the affordable housing trust fund Board of Trustees until June 30 2025 unless sooner revoked or a successor is appointed go here second second other nominations for the for the uh open seat seeing none we have one one uh nomination for Jonathan Avery uh all all those in favor select board member necastro I select board member Davis Hi select board member dkin hi select board member shell I and select board member of met says I which I believe negates the well I don't I believe the Mr Avery was only looking for one position so it negates the Conservation Commission and I explained earlier about econ so all right with that I will entertain one very last motion of the evening motion to adjourn we hear a second second further discussion all those in favor select board member necastro I selectboard member Davis ielect member DIY select member shell I and select member met say I good night everyone thank you very much [Music] [Music]