##VIDEO ID:DyvS2_EWvxU## just check okay we are live there thank you live on YouTube recording in progress Welcome to our chadam Township committee meeting of October 88th 2024 um we are returning from executive session so our clerk has confirmed that adequate notice has been given and I would ask everybody to join me for our FL L FL United States indivisible andice for thank you tonight is our Workshop meeting so things run a little bit differently uh it's much less formal um but I will open start by opening with our hearing of citizens I'm going to ask our clerk to give the guidance but I will ask our Scouts to come here for a special announcement come up first during that hearing so Mr lante if you need provide the guidance members of the public are now welcome to come up to the microphone to address the township committee this is an opportunity for any member of the public to be heard about issues which are not topic scheduled for public hearings tonight those present May step up to the microphone to be heard if if you're watching via Zoom you may speak during any of the public comment sessions by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether in person or online when you're recognized to speak please mind the following procedures please say your name spell your last name and give the name of your street you do not need to give your street number all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use any of your time answering questions the township committee will wait until you finish speaking before responding there are two public comment sessions on tonight's agenda each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to 3 minutes during each public comment session uh written comments of which we had none uh if they had been submitted to to me before 3 P.M they would be read during the public comment sessions written comments are subject to the same guidelines as oral comments duplicative in comments may be summarized rather than read in full according to guidelines issued by the New Jersey Division of local government services thank you I I do understand Karen we have a hard stop so I'm just going to ask our Scouts do one minute good evening hi working good okay Karen blumfeld 12 Maple Street chadam Township um I'm here on the two draft ordinances that are up for uh comment um the first one that I wanted to talk about um is the ordinance that would uh propose to ban um contractors from doing indoor work on Sundays if um it creates a disturbance outside so for example that would be noise or any other type of disturbance um as I mentioned the last time I experienced this four times when the house next door was going up um and so the police were not able to enforce when it was happening inside even though I could hear it because the ordinance only pertains to noise taking place outside so I just wanted to be here to just reinforce and um again re explain and what happened to me and hopefully you'll be able to better understand what I'm I'm hoping that you'll be able to do um I think that the the noise level that shouldn't be measured by decb because let's be honest here no Board of Health member or Health Department um employees going to come out on a Sunday to measure decb so I think like it's one of those things if you hear it okay it's encroaching and it's in it's in um it's uh interfering with the quiet enjoyment and use of the neighbor or or the resident so um it's basically you know keep it simple and it's much easier to enforce um the second ordinance um that I'm here on is the parks I'm really happy that um there's now the reference to the local ordinance that um explains how you define smoking which includes vaping and all tobacco products um I would encourage you to think about adding to the actual list of prohibited activities where smoking is mentioned and then the ordinance that defin smoking I don't think residents are going to be able to on the hot minute find that definition so something that's so easy to do would be to just where says smoking and smoking vaping all tobacco products and it's Crystal Clear to everybody what's prohibited and it makes it so much more easy to enforce and in fact it makes it self enforceable and that's it any questions thank you thank you you thanks for having us um I'm Jessica Romeo Pin Street I am the girl's troop leader we've been together since Natalie's ourter recently but we've been together since kindergarten so this is troop 9779 and they just completed their Bronze award this summer and they're really excited to share it with the community the Bronze award is open to Girl Scout juniors in fourth and fifth grade after they've completed a journey we did the outdoor journey and learned about leave not Trace principles Eco camping and things like that we also talked a lot about how being outdoors is good for your mental and physical health theing Trail Guide seemed like a perfect extension of the Journey Girls must spend at least 20 hours on building their team exploring and understanding their Community to identify an issue and then put that into an action plan and tackle the issue in order to earn their Bronze award I think it's pretty amazing that girls at fifth grade could accomplish something like this um so a couple of the girls wanted to stand up here and quickly explain to you how they did this what their process was we all went on different trails and collected info on things that we observed to make a brochure we remember to leave no Trace so that our time outside was not only good for us but also for nature nature is good for your mental health and reduces stress so we all met together to come up like what we were going to do books otheres Thea so each of us on a differenta and then we did a write up about them and then we made the hi I'm Ashley and um I learned that if I am ever feeling I learned that if I'm ever feeling overwhelmed at school because of um a test or a quiz um I can like go for a walk because as we went on the trails it was very relaxing to me hi I'm Claire I live on Orchard Road in chattur so my favorite Trail was the Green Village Pond Trail because it was so cool and there were very different tra very diverse traces of wildlife there were ponds Creeks Rivers marshes land bridges there were many different types of Laur and many different so their brochure will live at the library and if possible we had asked if it could be posted to the township website and the bur website and then girls have created this post board about how getting outside is good for your mental health and we shared this with other girl skents thank you well thank you all thank you all for your efforts I don't know if uh your troop leader told you but we have a mayor's walk and I love being able to share with the residents all our beautiful Trails but this also helps because sometimes we can't really I don't think to tell them how long it is how difficult it is accessible so this is a tremendous resource and and it's just easy there's a lot of people who just don't know what's available to them so this is really really such a great job that you all did wonderful resource so thank you again I really appreciate your efforts thank you thanks for letting us present [Applause] thank did we have anybody on Zoom who wants to speak we do not have any anies okay seeing no one else I will uh close the public session and we'll move on to um our report did you where do you want to start um we've got um well yeah I John is going to be a little bit longer um the CH May because there's a little bit shorter and then uh do okay do you wanna CFO you want to come up um main reason debie is here is to talk about the uh note sale uh that we just underwent it is a requirement that she up at so Debbie um so we there was a distribution um that you should have received that had the uh breakout of the two it's a determination and award certificate because we had two different notes um we're rolling over a note that was from ordinance 20226 it was for 1,597 th000 this was for the affordable housing um so this is a taxable note um which then led to um you get less bids um less uh people are interested in that type of note um but we did um get two people that bid on it give me one second to get that open um the winning bid was for 4.65% um and that's for a one-year note um the second note was for 1,385 that was for this year's ordinance 20244 the entire ordinance um was Bond it um we did not bond for the fire vehicles because they would not need to be paid for until the delivery so we're not borrowing those funds until necessary so we only borrowed 1, 385,000 and the winning bid on that was 4.25% with a premium which brought their um net interest cost down to 4.69 um and that was the wiing bid that's also for one year and that is a tax exempt note so we we had bids on that one any questions so that's uh an ordinance at the next meeting resolution just has to be disced yes it has to be put in the minutes by law that's it any other questions as far as legislation for the next meeting uh the finance committee Debbie and I will be meeting on the WPC capital for 2024 follow is the conversation that we had with John as far as needs over there and his assessment uh so that would require a resolution to amend the capital budget exact figures and then an ordinance to introduce for the WPC Capital uh we are intending that it would be fully funded with uh within the utility so no borrowing will be needed for that okay and uh we have started all budget process uh for 2025 so let you know that we are yet again moving more and schedule we have in previous years so been adjusting that and but this is going to be the level for the future you know around this time frame is when we be starting okay wonderful okay thank you d y thank you for joining us it's a pleasure to see you okay um then the chief you want to come on good evening hello so Chief you're here to talk about all your new vehicles yes no he's here to uh talk signal Replacements uh there was an email and this is not a new uh this is not this is not a new conversation uh but it is following up on the conversation we had about the first intersection since then there's been a mishap at another intersection and uh requires a decision from the governing body as to how to proceed so Chief why don't you uh follow up with that please yeah like the last time we met we have an issue with another signal intersection this one is Greenville shum Pike Road um after the million Paving that was just done the signal became inoperable to some extent so the county came out and their assessment I'm sure you've all read item two is that need to be replaced um we're going to fix it but it's just putting a bandid on a bigger problem so at some point we're going to need to move forward with of that one now is that the one that was part of the overall project for that area that they were talk that was 2017 so that included so that lights at Green Village and Shunpike but their work would include Southern which I know they just no that's Madison's traffic light that one was replaced that they were both supposed to be replaced at the same time for whatever reason we walked that Improvement of that intersection okay so we didn't replace that light so the work would solely be the Green Village sh coming out of the chat okay so it's not any of the other work Associated when they came in in 2017 they were talking about re having the flow traffic flows different yeah they're going to make it a T intersection instead of the the branch all the yield okay there going to be a dedicated T intersection I think the plans were yeah I got a little confused because I thought they did have both intersections so there's nothing else at the uh Okay no Okay and then that's versus what you brought to us the other is the the County's assessment is this slate Green Village and shike should be prioritized over Southern I'm sorry Southern and River really what's your opinion I agree okay okay CU When I was there no less than 10 people crossed pedestrian cross that intersection and there's no there's no light for pedestrian flow um so okay I I would agree with them okay but doesn't seem like they want to replace it unless we redo that intersection interesting Chief the the paving the paving resulted in the county looking at the light or is it something is it just coincidental being that it's a county road when they damaged the left they damaged the wiring underneath the roadway when they build the road so the arrow was not working so I called the county out because it's County light and their assessment was it's not their responsibility is ours and that the whole white needs to be replaced anyway so any objections moving forward with this one first any sense of when the next one would happen we only have one left after that so yeah okay is there an objection to going up the chain here and uh with the county to you know to look at this again I mean because it's if if the responsibility Falls to CH Township taxpayers uh for a County Light well I think it's a 7030 split yeah it would be a 730 split we have a longstanding agreement apparently with the county um I think the last time we talked about included that agreement um like two months ago packet it was an agreement that seems to be standard across all the towns uh that they have now on how uh intersections that the county with municipalities are a portion for for money so I don't think they're going to make an exception in our case uh when that seems to be a process countywide how about the county Co-Op in terms of liability and because I mean there obviously there must have been other Damage Done by County Co-op participants in the past is does any of that responsibility fall to the co-op or so we did uh we filed a claim uh with our our carrier uh and letting the carrier handle it I just want to be careful as to how deep I get into it with potential litigation but the hope is that you know we file the claim because we did go to them and say you guys got to make a toll and they push back on that you got to prove it this that like okay unusual because it was actually the water company hired because they put the main in so they hired contract come up and count that did not so yeah so that's why like let's we'll file the claim with our insurance company and let them try and subate and sort out whose fault it is and uh try and make a whole on on the the repair itself but that was take time okay good so it sounds like we're moving forward with yes assuming yeah I that's that's what you all want yeah because do want to make sure that there's consensus there because we are going to have to have a new agreement with the county on that so we'll have a resolution at some point and give them the direction to proceed with that initial estimate work for us right I think they want to sit back down and go the whole intersection have proceed with any replacement okay but also on the table is a water m is going down the road so that things I'll find out tomorrow I have a meeting tomorrow but it's going the entire life from sh bike to didn't they just put in a water shike but now they're going from shike I'm sorry sh Pike all the way down Green Village to Spring Val so the the first leg is uh Britain Road to Spring Valley and then 2025 they going to come back and do Britain to sh but they did just pave that not too long ago yeah I they clearly paav it so I was thinking they were they just laid the water down paved in 2024 so so that's coming too okay uh the only item listed under police is the fiber Loop bid uh for resolution um PA John's here I know Mary you had a question about that uh you know as far as the bids and what changed that we got them under under budget so could you come up and just address that please sure I was just wondering from the original big backs what did we change to finally get them you know the budget um well couple of things once first we kind of step back because when we first got the grant we started to have a little go creep and uh so we started to look at incorporating all our Wastewater facilities into it versus what the initial Grant was so that's that was um you know one revision that was made um we did meet with um you know after we met with one of the biders after the first time we bid and and just got frankly asked them what they felt um would bring the cost down and uh they recommended a different alignment of how we would go even though it's slightly longer uh they would they want suggested that we keep off of Shan Pike and other other locations that they thought it would be less expensive we' take this route so they gave us some guidance on what they thought thought would work um and then lastly we were completely taking a a stab at um the way the bid is set up um they we got a price to design it because it's a design build project uh uh cost to construct it and then we also had an allowance for for um forizon and um J and jcpnl to modify their poles um to allow room for this uh new new wire to be hung on their poles and so that that's kind of a number is a is a a bit of um an estimate a guesstimate per se because we really you need really need to get into the design before you actually do that and So speaking with um the one um you know vendor you know he thought that we were a bit over conservative on on what we put in for that allowance for that so that all reducing that allowance you know really brought us right to where the grant is so we do have some some um liability frankly because until the design is done and then we get those firm numbers from JCP on then Verizon we really know what what that cost is you know we have $200,000 allocate for that um it could be less it could be more but that's something that we're not going to know until the design is done the design is forwarded to um JCP and and Verizon and they'll give us a firm number at that point so took us a couple of bids to get to this point but we're there and we're slightly below the grant amount so so I can only say that once the design is done we go um and we get the numbers from Verizon we may have to modify the alignment or even reduce the alignment and go back to the Grant and say you know we need we can only do this much at this point in time can we break it up into phases and so we may have to take that step we hope we don't hopefully we can go forward you know the one the one vendor that we uh spoke to in the very beginning who actually helped write the um the scope of work and gave us the preliminary numbers um they ultimately didn't bid on the project and so you know we were really relying on their numbers um and and their numbers were low and uh you know we found that after the fact that that that that vendor couldn't bid public work he couldn't get the bonding requirements and he wasn't so he's uh he's more of a service versus doing this and so um so our our grant was was very aggressive you know that we we didn't we asked for just the amount that we needed you know we don't have much fluff in the in the in the funding Chief and I have a call with the grant program manager tomorrow so one of the questions is if because we don't want we bark on design and the design costs are supposed to be paid for under the grant but if the design costs end up you know uh we pay them out but then we find out that the costs of construction are exceeding what we have left in the grant we don't want to be in a situation where then we have to you know eat up the costs ourselves or then find more money to to make the project complete so we want to have this call tomorrow and hope have that information for you before the next meeting so in terms of putting in because the whole idea was to put in some of the additional readers or you know for safety measures and that so that's not compromised by the rting no cover we app we can s we can build off what we've started after this project is done we can continue to build off of it we're building we're building an infrastructure um but you know we're just trying to make it fit within the grant at the moment okay any other questions thank you should I stick around uh but actually John before you um Glenn on the tax reil okay that's right I think just stepped keeps speaking in too I think he's right here would you no not at all not at all he is not at all I thought I was gonna get favors from the chief and they were they were like negotiating with me to speak really fast so that I'm out and that they we can kick you under the light but then start going with the questions hello how are you doing I'm doing great how's everybody tonight good nice to see everybody I don't know if anybody's a Met fan but yes it's s to two yes Jing about it before the meeting um so uh Glenn's here because of the upcoming tax reval uh what we've got on the agenda for the next meeting is to authorize that bid um so again I know may or you wanted to kind of repeat the message for the benefit of the public so that's why Glenn's here to address the next steps of the process will provide us with bid specs that uh TN and Nick are are reviewing and uh this is also the time for you guys to not that we need them for the authorization uh but we're going to you know want any input or feedback from you as to anything you want in the bid specs that is unique or different uh so Glenn want you talk about the timeline again just briefly and the main points of the bid specs but before you begin I will tell you we can't overc communicate because I had a nice chat with somebody at the T CH event yesterday which P I definitely recomend it CH Chamber of Commerce Chad Chamber of Commerce coordinator but I had a discussion and they didn't realize that the uh the folks come into your house to do the rebound like this was a surprise and a lot of people have never gone through this experience and but they would know that once we notice cars and will out I mean they will that's why it's good you know to get a timeline this thank you to tune in well where we're at in the process right now is our maps have been submitted to the division of taxation uh division receive them I think September 11th and have 45 business days in which to um review the maps and get back to the township with any requested changes or necessary changes to the to the tax M and it's just as long as the township engineer is very responsive in in making the the changes we should be um on schedule to hopefully have the maps done before the end of this year that was the the game plan when we started out um because the process cannot start until the maps are approved what kind of feedback you get on the map excuse me what kind of feedback would they send on the map a lot believe it or not the thickness of the lines on the map every exempt property has to be designated it's exempt and and you know if it's a volunteer fire department they want it noted on the map uh things of that nature so they go through with a fine tooth comb um and so okay it's a process sometimes it is just about the thickness of the the lines on the map and sometimes it's which reviewer you get yeah okay um so then uh I had put together some proposed revaluation specs or proposed contract and I emailed it to the attorney at the Z and so um I took the standard State specs which are very Bare Bones and I added a lot of things to it to to that I think would be important for chadam Township to have and I think you know the next step would be you know once they review it is to get everybody's input and if there's anything else that they would request in the contract now would be the time to have that discussion so I know I said one thing but did anybody have before I my com any have any comments on the specifications in terms of what we're requesting the re company ass what they call well the revaluation company the revaluation company in terms of their scope of work because the only comment I had was I noticed it said um that the residents will be provided their uh reassessment their new assessment uh November correct and then they have the end of the year to coordinate a meeting if I guess theye that assessment yes and those dates are are from the state statute really yes that's terrible so could you tell them people that so is it the beginning of November or whenever they deliver uh the exact date because people then the holidays are trying to you know I know unfortunately the deadline for the reevaluation does fall right in the middle of the holidays okay um well we could push them to get out earlier even if the technical deadline is well we have I believe in order to mail valuation letters earlier than that November date we have to get approval by the Morris County Board of Taxation is it that window to submit notice or to sit down schedule a meeting what is that window for cuz it's just a file notice and that a little more colable than if you got to do something more sub is that something about scheduling a meeting with the re company yeah so by May typically according to the state statutes the standard contract valuation letters can be mailed uh after November 10th can yes they don't have to go out on the 10th they can go out anytime but uh and then we want to try to conclud the informal meetings by mid December so essentially people will have about a month to contact the firm if they have any questions about the uh proposed valuation and they'll be able to come in and and meet with a representative of the firm to uh discuss the proposed assessment before it gets finalized based on your experience what do you typically expect in terms of number of FKS who are going to contest and take this action question surprisingly it's it's a low percentage overall um I can't give you an exact number but are we talking tens hundreds i' probably get a couple hundred people that would want to call and and set up informal meeting means the assessor is coming back to look because it's something like you know they said there's four bedrooms or something that that would well um they'll there'll be a informal meeting with the representative of the firm uh here within the municipality and then if there's any questions as to the data that's being relied upon to come up with that proposed assessment then it may cause uh a reinspection of the property but not in all cases and the first thing they'll do when they sit down with a representative is to go over the information that they're being assessed for and that's why it's so crucial to actually do an interior inspection of the properties um because we want to make sure that we have the most accurate information in order to have an accurate assessment if the firm doesn't get in we're still required to set an assessment on that property so typically what they would do have to estimate the interior information based on surrounding homes if it's say a home that's built in the 70s they're most likely going to assume the kitchen's renovated the bath are renovated the the basement's finished the atics finished um so permits too right permit data well they'll have permit data as well um but you know it's to everyone's benefit to cooperate and allow an inspection so we that we have you know the most accurate information possible now if a resident is in home or they have been denied for some reason um sickness or whatever the reason is do they before the informal meeting they have a chance to have the evaluator back yes and in the proposed contract I mean there there are some standard steps uh in the state specs so the the the mailings that get sent out to all the taxpayers notifying them of the pending reevaluation and the procedures for the inspection and then the initial visit is typically conducted uh unannounced so they'll go to a home if somebody's home they'll introduce themselves they'll show their identification and if it's convenient for the homeowner at that time they'll do the full inspection and and be done with that particular property uh An Inconvenient time or the homeowner is not there they're going to leave a card at the home uh notifying a a date and a time when they're going to return um and then if that time is inconvenient for the taxpayer there will be a phone number on that card that they can call and set up a more specific or more convenient appointment um so if the firm doesn't hear from them they'll go back at that particular time and the homeowners are there they'll do the inspection if they're not then they're going to leave another card that says you you need to call and schedule an appointment um and then I have in the uh proposed contract that once all of the fieldwork is essentially complete I want the firm to mail a letter to any property where we didn't gain access to notifying them that they've got a final uh notice that if the property is not inspected then it's going to be estimated at its highest most reasonable potential and and because of this process that's why you have the low percentage of people coming out to challenge or to to ask questions I mean I'm I'm not putting words in your mouth I'm just making a comment you know and one of once the uh value notices are out we can have the firm share as much information as the township would like but typically I I like that if they post a listing of uh sales on their website so when somebody gets an assessment of $2 million in uh on a certain Street they'll be able to look at the sales and they'd be able to compare the sales to what their assessment is and a lot of times that satisfies people and they don't have find the need to have an informal meeting I'm sorry can you say that again you like municipalities to post sales within the township well with either on the municipal website or on the revaluation website um I think it's helpful once the value letters go out that uh a list of the sales that were used to develop the assessments are shared with the public oh I see okay I was just wondering how we work I understand gotta is no concern with it no I was I was think was to he's saying the Sal he thought we were Google and we were going to develop some sort of new technology here no it's a list I was wondering how we were going to list technology generate a list of all sales of property and when it was going to be from but that's not it is I think the county cat a record too so yeah but we do have that information the mod 4 but that's not what we're doing we're just using a sample that we're providing the sample that the firm used that was going to be my comment that people just go to the m but I understand well it would be a lot easier for tax to be able to go to the uh appraisal firm's website and see a list of all the sales and if if we choose to we list of all the uh assess values in town as well okay great so in terms of time frame um we can go out the bid once once the uh the specifications are completed and we can go out the bid prior the maps being approved but we can't start any work until um the maps are approved but there are some things we can do like can get an introductory letter together things of that nature that we while we wait for the the map approval okay so if I guess if there's no other input on the specifications we to move forward so we'll have a resolution authoriz the bid we'll draft a notice with legal and Glenn and Greg to just make sure all the timelines for the you know the bidding process are sorted out with you know paper publication and all that stuff we'll take a we'll take a look at the specs and give them any comments that we have I don't anticipate so like either December or January will be making an award okay yeah absolutely okay wonderful we also get this well I mean that it's going to be an issue there are only a couple active revaluation firms in in the state of New Jersey right now and if you look at all the ratios in the state of New Jersey that probably 75% of the state of New Jersey needs a revaluation right now because the residential Market has really affected all the ratios throughout the state okay wonderful we're good okay thank you than for coming in sure good night [Laughter] everybody not a lot of going okay you're all done okay there's two things listed uh on the agenda just for discussion um I did provide a proposal for U preparing um cost estimates for the the three primary uh improvements that we want to um undertake at at the plant and the objective is is to work with the operator come up you know make sure that we we we're in agreement with the general concept and what how that the improvements is going to be and then ultimately come up with a cost estimate so that ultimately the next step is is to you know proceed with a a loan application with ibank and proceed with with a design um so the intent is is you know is this A5 million or a $10 million project and what is it going to look like you know just kind of get into the de get into the weeds of the details um with the operator make sure that U you know are we going to change technology we're going to keep the same technology and go over those pros and cons you know to pull Z in at the end you know where where we're going with it and just kind of it's just more of a scoping project that one is funded with the last capital budget uh that we put together for uh WPC put in some money for specifically this so um but the actual funding as John said that's going to the ibank because we are and that's scope of we're talking Millions at that so okay uh any questions or concerns with moving forward on John producing the would be a resolution for next meeting to authorize that that contract no issues there no issues no questions no okay next one is the Senior Center lighting project yeah we've uh went out the bid for replacing the lights at the senior center and and um get a very you know there was a lot of interest um we did have one bidder that uh did make a mistake and uh he did uh notify us within the statute requirements that you you're you they are entitled to be pulled out of the bid if they U made a mistake and and the numbers that they had were ridiculously low not sure what they were thinking but the the next the next response of bidder was a reasonable price and so certainly would recommend that we move forward with an award and get the project done great now I I had sent a question I was swamp today I did not get to see if there was an answer um I will double check and get back to you on okay but yeah we are within the budget yeah that was my first question too yes we are okay um great any other questions on the Senior Center lighting right any other questions on my report while I'm here uh there was was there something I think we said we were going to touch on your report John um it was it was the the um the grant with the police yep that was the the third item okay anything else see that you no touch on no that's okay okay right good night everyone okay we've been all over the map on this agenda so to admin back back up back to admin okay we'll start from the top now that they're all gone um the two ordinances start off with those may there's the public comment and uh feedback from the governing body from our last conversation on par skills and rules regs there compation the golf language so uh our attorney put together some language for your review consideration uh whether that achieves your wishes you can see it um section e if you're looking at the actual Orin everything down so I'm trying to find it okay so you had the golf oh and then we had I'm fine on L just to jump to this real quick uh the the resident recommended the smoking vaping and then we're still defining I'm fine with that just for clarification that's you're fine with making the change that she recommended yeah okay I just want to make sure I understood yeah and I yeah that should thinking we're in Workshop so this is the time to make those kind of changes yes absolutely so going back to e play or practice golfing less Sun facilities specific that's prohibited play or practice golfing unless such facility is specifically designated for such activity by the township use of PL plastic practice withle balls do balls not within any active public play area apparatus area authetic field or Recreation enclosure or bu so that's to say golfing is if you can't golf or if you use Whiffle balls you can use those within as long as it's not in these active areas so you can't golf unless it is in a designated area designated by the township or you're using the practice Whiffle balls outside of those areas okay and I mirrored the language those similar to what we did with the an um the animals it's you'll see it's the active public play area it's like that same because it's the same concept right you just don't want people hitting balls in that area where it's you know active and ironically I was just telling Z ever since this I noticed on my way into work in the morning there's a guy in one of the fields by my house actually practicing golf all the time you should there I should they better check their ordinance I have no idea what kind of B I don't now I did hear from somebody who was more so concerned about the clubs you know that it's fine that they're using a whiffle ball and that's that that the you know swinging of the club which I mean to me it's like a kid swing dangerous wait is that is that correct so it is no person shall use plastic balls not within any active shouldn't it be no person shall use within any active um well it's hard because we're already doing the exception so it's an exception to an exception we got multiple negatives yeah maybe maybe I make it a second sentence honestly so you're not allowed to play or practice golf unless such unless such facility is specifically designated for such activity by the township so this is still or use a pla plastic practice Whipple golf balls not within any maybe I say outside any active maybe that would be a little more clear why don't you just put a period after town for activity by the township period and then just say um this excludes got it yeah yep or excl we'll work on that to make it I I can see where so need to send this to the paper if you can get me that tomorrow morning but we still got to introduce this right assuming that it's right we'd have to because I think we yeah no we didn't we didn't introduce it we still have to introduce still to introduce oh yeah so we have the amend we have the introduced ordinance this would be amending what's already been introduced so we did introduce it already we introduced the one without this amendment that's correct we have the original so we're going to have to either vote the other one down or wait did that one was adopt we Ted it it was Ted so that's pretty much dead that's well I guess you could vote on the amendments and then um vote to adopt okay but I guess we have to do all of that at the next meeting and the question becomes whether not their substantive and you're just voting on the Amendments or you're voting on the Amendments and the adoption and I think we've gone through it enough that I'd like to keep it clean and we just vote on the Amendments and then and then do the publication for the November meeting okay so next meeting we'll vote vote on the amendment okay like kind of like a reintroduction basically a re so rather than amending it tonight we'll you know reintroduce at the October 22nd meeting yeah I wasn't under the impression we're doing any unless you want to take action on it tonight but I think you leave it so we're have the full I have yeah I have the language for you yeah we got to clean up that language yep yep okay okay and that was it on that one right yes great all right next one indoor construction I just want to clarify I mean the resid not here for the benefit of the public we're actually dealing with noise ordinance right this is a construction prohibition ordinance not a noise ordinance noise is a byproduct of the construction but we're not tackling noise in this ordinance yes because the was mentioning you know decb all that's it's a health matter and oh because it yeah because it raises other issues about you know the weekend warrior if there's people in town who want to do work on their own or they can't get you know you got a dual working household they can't get the plumber in except for the weekend um so that you want to prude that from happening so I think that's why she started getting into yeah I where it's disruptive I believe uh people doing work on their own property is already Exempted and the ordinances just about contractors doing the work I mean the same the same concern applies but this is only for contractors this is not for you doing work on your own same thing though it's still a if I'm not home you know nobody's home except for the weekends it's the only time we get the plumber in suay Sunday yeah Sunday so I'm not you know I guess the question is whether or not it's a big enough concern to place another restriction on people's ability to so that's the question is whether or not there's an interest in changing the construction to have to include indoor Construction in the exclusion or some form of it I just don't know what that looks like that's well construction versus repair because that would would be the emergency on a Sunday right for a plumber well I think also emergencies are Exempted yes that's that's what I mean in the ordinance as it exists right now which we weren't amending originally at all um it says let me P up so I can find so it says no construction or contractor activity shall take place out ofd doors on property within the township of chadam on Sundays or holidays provided that in the event of an emergency you need to the property or to the community at large this regulation shall not apply so it already says out ofd doors so in order to make it subject to indoors we would just delete that language but matter not to do that so drafting wise it would have been difficult it's just up to you policy wise yeah like I said I think that's where the noise Factor was coming in because it wasn't and and I understand we have a separate noise ordinance so if they're over 50 60 DB whether or not you get somebody out to actually measure that is a whole other story so it came down to when somebody's doing interior work and it becomes disruptive but you know we also don't have a pile of people here asking for that so do we want to the C you can take it incrementally I mean meaning like if if it does become an issue because we do there is still a noise ordinance that does apply so you know the I know we've gotten reg we've gotten complaints about an air conditioner on weekends and our health officer has come out yeah air conditioners generators Park dogs so we do get those complt and they come inspector has come out on a weekend so it's not like it's not doable under the noise orance yeah okay and ultimately someone has to arbitrate whether or not something is disruptive or not you know it can't just be that's my issue with this construction on Sundays and holidays because it's it's there's so many things I mean there's emergency then there's a repair right I mean um and then there's this idea of well if someone's working quietly indoors painting are we looking to stop that I I don't you know and that in construction on Sundays or holidays that would be stopped because you'd have a commercial van you I just don't know if that that's necessary but I I think nobody should have the peaceful enjoyment of their property disrupted and if we need to refer something about the noise ordinance you know to the Board of Health I would be supportive of that but not not this yeah you know practically speaking this is the kind of ordinance that would be enforced based on complaints and if if the the work next door is quiet neighbors aren't going to know so they're not going to be calling the police to come out and well certain neighbors have uh other reasons to yeah but you by and large Yeah by and large that's correct there are there are feuds though okay so it sounds like we're not going to we're not interested taking any at this time so there's no we're we're going to adopt it as it's been adopted no it's been adopted the previous change so the previous change how this all came about was just adding juneth to the holidays oh that's right okay that was already adopted without this other change so there's nothing more to do more action okay um moving on discussion and action uh two items uh this one I think is fairly uh straightforward electricity renewal auction um we did do this uh last year my first time doing it here in chadam I've done these uh elsewhere probably every town um and that is a reverse auction for our electricity needs um only Municipal accounts this has nothing to do with residential so last year we did it for municipal Street lighting we did only one-ear term that expires next month um we only did a one-year term last year because that was the better rate as opposed to anything longer term and uncertainty with the markets our Consultants said just stick to one year so that's expiring and then we've got our other Municipal uh electricity accounts which are under a different tariff rate that's the lighting for all our buildings and Parks field so on and so forth uh that expires also coming up so now we're going to do them all together um and go out to auction uh we don't know what those rates look like uh I will have as I did last year uh you know a report on what auction looks like with a recommendation from our consultant but we have to execute that contract within a certain time period essentially the same day so uh at the next meeting what I'm proposing is a resolution that authorizes us to go out to auction and authorizes uh us to execute the best rate that me and the consultant think works best for for the township um otherwise we can do it separately where on the 22 authorize the auction and then we would go out to auction at the next meeting in November on the same day of our meeting so that way you can see the rates then as well and um deliberate on those but honestly not much to deliberate on these things you get a good rate you take it it's just a matter of the term and uh you know we do have a very good consultant on this stuff so yeah help you make the expense higher that's for sure yeah um that's okay then I think there was a draft resolution on what that would look like so we' be putting the strike price and all that stuff in there and that fill in the blank I will have the energy auction from that that day okay any questions comments okay and now for the uh the exciting ones circular litter regulations uh our environmental commission had asked requested that uh you consider some regulation on on um managing the litter that's created by circulars thrown in people's driveways without request uh Comm you you're the liaison I don't know if want to say anything off um well the fact of the matter is what we're searching for some kind of optin opt out um to maybe control some of that because not just the environmental commission but actual neighbors have been complaining about it ending up in the streets and so if we can come up with some form to do that to enable that that's what we're looking to do so I think to many of us that's you know goes straight from the Dragway to the recycle yes it does yeah and some it sits so yeah so um but there I guess might be a lot of people that make talking about potentially an OP out yes type of uh and and then we our clerk would administer that op out does that does that seem like something everybody would want to pursue I I'm not interested in pursuing that um and the the reason is I think you know we have limited time and resources and energy and I don't really want to put the staff or anyone um into pursuing that particularly with the environmental commission we've talked about this in the in the past where you know we have ordinance a tree ordinance that applies to our residents and property owners and it doesn't apply to to us as a a municipality we and so what we'll we what the environmental commission here is seeking to do is make a regulation about private companies or somebody else who's you know um Distributing circulars but U we had already talked or and and I thought it was unanimous that we had asked them to look into um a tree planting ordinance uh or something about tree replacement for trees that we cut down on Municipal property so I would like to refocus back onto things that we've already talked about and already already discussed uh rather than bringing up something you know new and trying to regulate something outside of our own control we have something you know in that that's well within our own control well this is actually if I might um this is actually complaints that have come because of the residual and remaining papers Etc and the environmental picked it up because typically uh um The Limited ones that have been passed around town are primarily in plastic bags they sit in the rain um and in fact it's it's mostly the other neighbors that are picking it up as they walk their dogs and the like and so it's really just um a nuisance an ability to address what has become to some neighbors a nuisance and um and for that reason it's very simple and if we if we execute uh something that's allows some of the residents to opt out if it becomes something that makes the issue and the and the uh and the nuisance evaporate so that's the reason for it has nothing to do with you know other other ordinance or or effective uh uh you know Pursuits of the environmental commission and so certainly those will be pursued but this is kind of a one-off and a very simple I believe and other towns have done that and created ordinance what we want to do is create a situation where uh it's an ordinance that is not too cumbersome and and it's easy for uh neighbors to say hey yeah I I don't want that coming to me anymore um and it's within that neighbor's right to opt out that's all um in terms of the work Rec requirement because you have another opt out uh for solicitors I mean what does that entail so with the solicitors and canvassers people can sign up for a do not knock registry so when would be solicitors in can caners go to the police to get those permits the police in turn hands them the uh the the list so that way these solicitors know where they're what doors they're not not allowed to knock on so likewise you would maintain a list and we know this isn't a solicitor type situation where they come to but uh I guess if there's a complaint at that point we would just have to send the list to that entity that's sending up the C assuming that I can get that information of where they operate from yeah I mean I would argue it's also a safety concern because it is an indicator I mean we always make sure Nat get it for us but sometimes people don't think to do that but it is an indicator that nobody's home when it's left behind you know through the weekend so I mean the same would apply though to you know Chinese food vus or any restaurant food vus you know that would be left behind famously uh you know you live in apartment complex and those things get distributed so I think you're a bit cherry-picking a certain a certain problem a certain issue look I I don't completely oppose it I would i' would be open to it I'm just saying that we only have a certain amount of attention and a certain amount of priority and this you know we've already discussed the issue of uh we we have a green policy which has some nice aims to it but it completely excluded trees and we we do have a history of cutting down trees and then not replacing them in our Township and so I I'm just wondering where that went what happened to that priority and it was discussed not not a week ago a month ago two months ago we're talking several months ago um and and nothing's come back but now some's come back on regulating other people rather than regulating ourselves I mean yeah I'll ask m m to take it back to the environmental committee it's not the topic that's at hand right now and I will say I've gotten more complaints about circulars on the driveway than I have about what the Township's cutting down and not replacing or is replacing because there is you know there is replacement efforts but um so uh the question at hand is whether or not we want to pursue circular lit regulation to allow um residents to opt out is there an objection I I think I have one noted is there objection otherwise to pursuing that okay and you had a sample draft from the environmental commission yes they given some language some language we we'll work with that and give you something okay to to review and perhaps comment on okay thank you thank you if you could take me one back to yeah but I think that actually to to comment further Mar if you don't mind is is that um that is something that's not forgotten about and it is something that the environmental commission is discussing so to your point it's uh it is something that is of priority and interest to further okay okay thank you thank you is there anything else there uh that is it mayor I think all we have left is the that return to Executive session I have a couple of questions under Administration everything okay so I was looking at the yeah go ahead okay uh my first one is about the website we had uh still have a notice up on the website about it's you know be patient this is new um that was a project that seemed to me that the proposal came in February call it March anyway it was supposed to be a six week project we're more than six months on so I would like a can you give us an update on what the end of that looks like yeah the scope of the the original scope of that project is completed it was completed with time okay so what's going on with the we so what's going on with the website right now is that there's still that message you know saying hey we're we're updating you know with us um the website I've had many residents uh reference the fact that the website no no longer has you know older ordinances or older resolutions that missing information that used to be there so we seem to have U if anything reduced the number amount of information that's on the website well that's why the not is there if somebody's looking for something they just email the clerk or myself and we get it to them because we're in the Pro a lot of data that needs to be transferred over uh and we're renaming files updating meta tags and reorganizing it so it's not just a data dump so that's that's part of the process so so it's not complete the original scope as I said the original scope is complete so the original scope was what didn't include to have the same functionality as our as our previous website oh no the functionality is there it's the data has to be migrated seems cont and cleaning it correct that's what we're doing with all the pages that's why the notice is there because the the previous website had data all over the place duplicates files not named correctly um not easy to be located so now that we've got the the shell the website's all organized a good file management system on there now we're migrating all the data renaming files putting them where they belong so that way they are more logical and easier to okay Mr sh do you have a uh I know this is the impossible question any idea when a lot of that data will be updated and uploaded uh into the format um it's a work in progress I gotta work with Greg on that one right now I've prioritized uh mailing list uh because we're putting I think they mentioned that that that is a um a frequent request and a need for the Township in terms of public relations and communication so that's been a priority right now so uh it's nearly done uh just a couple more modifications need to be made on the back end and hopefully by the end of this month we could roll that out and launch that and then we can focus through some other cleanup things like that right um I've bumped that down on the list because of some more functionality issues it's not that hard for somebody to email if they need an ordinance or resolution and get that done yeah regarding ordinances as long as we're updating our code book like we should be then that's sort of a moot point because the codification already will would include any um ordinances that are more than a year old and then it's far as resolutions that's a very very very timec consuming project that I could probably chip away at a little bit at a time over the summer when things are slow but that's the kind of thing that if we're going to budget to have a deputy clerk at some point then that's something that they could work on this Year resolutions being up on the site is that what you well it's you know one thing for me during the current year you know every time we have a meeting to do you know the you know 5 to 10 resolutions per meeting but you know if we're going to do you know a particular year where there could be 250 300 resolutions that's you you know every every resolution takes time that that's time away from oah requests time away from committee minutes planning board minutes Board of Health minutes all the things that I statutorily have to do okay yeah they you I would just just say that uh perfect can't be the the enemy of good and you know we had a resource and now we have nothing for the public and I I don't know why we would even invest enormous amount of time when we had something we could just take that same data and and push it in I mean that's that's what I would definitely encourage but I mean that's what somebody who doesn't know how it works on the back end would say and that's what I've explained is it's a process there's a lot that goes into it and it will be done he getting the old resolutions back up I would have to individually scan every resolution from a particular year individually post every resolution from a particular year you know and one particular year that could be a three-month project yeah so well that's only if the SQL database from the previous you know WordPress site wasn't wasn't a WordPress site yeah wasn't available it wasn't a word site like I said whatever C whatever SQL was driving that CMS okay how about that that's fine Workshop docs Workshop doc we have uh the question was answered Workshop docs um so so today's meeting like uh we had talked about this several times having Workshop docs something available for the public about the topics that we're discussing so the topics that we discussing you know we have an agenda here and but none of the reports or information that we have in the background is available to the public on the website and that's including you know tonight's meeting I just looked so you know nothing says hey Mom and Dad don't want you knowing what's in the checkbook or what we're really talking about like not showing somebody you know what's what's around now I don't think that the public necessarily needs access to every single document that we're looking at but I I do think it would be good if we could uh share something with the public in terms of documents for these meetings so um I I believe I explained at a prior meeting that under Oprah draft and deliberative documents are exempt from open public records act so if we want to do something contrary to Oprah then I would need a clear policy from this committee to give me direction what you would and would not and then there would still be certain items that would not be posted because if it's you know a personal record for yeah like there would have to be some discretion what would be and would not be appropriate right but clearly to me nothing it's not discretion it's just nothing you know typically typically resolutions and ordinances for the regular meetings are you know posted since that's something that's going to have action but you if it's a Personnel resolution hiring a new employee or appointing board members we usually withhold that because it's you know A Private Matter until it's ready to be public yeah I wouldn't want work in progress documents because it's it's useless for residents and it's a waste of their energy to kind of review stuff that's not even really I mean we revised things right here repeatedly better for them to participate when there public hearings for them to participate to to use an example in the uh Clerk's manual we are specifically told not to distribute draft minutes until they're reviewed and approved by the governing body because you know you know releasing those too early would just wind up creating confusion and sometime we we've had that happen in the past with uh different versions of draft ordinances floating about town and people come to the microphone and start railing about something that was three versions ago so yeah but my my personal preference is wait until it's in a reason reasonably final form especially with ordinances and resolutions before you go live with it so I'll give you a very fast example not to belabor this but just how about not sale we discuss note sale somewhat public documents could really be available elsewhere to the public it wouldn't make it would makes no sense that we wouldn't be able to provide something like that right to the public guess the intent of providing it before the meeting versus discussing it in the meeting with context what's the benefit transparency it's we're transparent when we're discussing it okay um we'll have to I would say let's visit each item uh you know before the meeting if we see stuff we could ask if it could be posted if there's any reason that included from being posted I want to be able to give residents information but I don't waste their time with stuff that's not relevant but let's I there is I mean the police reports those are public records I don't know why you can't post those some of the reports I love you know we can see what the public works all the all the things they they do I think it's great for the residents to see that uh the construction reports so um there's a lot of good stuff there that I think just evidences all the great work that people are doing so um I'm agree so is is there uh consensus as to want us to publish the monthly reports the departmental reports are you is there any reason not to I'm comfortable with it does anybody else have any objection I think great to we just need some some Direction I mean like Greg said a lot of the towns follow that you know because it's deliberative cons until you discuss them and there's context to it they don't want to release it but some towns do so it's uh I'm talking about the reports that talk about what was done you know so like the clerk's report talks about what was done I'm not talking about some of the speculative stuff or the you know yeah no that's fine so we we need some guidance like what about the engineer report I mean his gets into issues to discuss you know I think the clerk maybe the tax collector those are a little more um fact-based the engineer um Z and I talked about we're going to start our office is going to start giving you reports certainly we can't publish those um but um um usually the I don't like engineering is one that just sticks to me as being a little bit of both right they they identify issues to discuss you know John will raise things that are you know could the way he presents both or gives a recommendation I don't know how you feel about those what what is customary or best practice best practice is I don't see the point of putting out information that has may or may not have value I I I'm a advocate of transparency I think all these meetings are official record uh everything is discussed that things that we're formally taking positions on and to the extent that a member of the public would like additional information I don't see why there's any issue with having them request information which can be timely distributed to the person requesting the information um I don't think there's any obis on it having said that I'm not sure it it makes sense as a best practice put everything out there and certainly some things may be prudent to not provide because it's a working product or it's draft form or uh you may have sensitive information that you know Council May deem potentially problematic so then we're then we're in the question of w g who's going to uh who's who's going to make the det determination of what's put out there and what's not I think that provides uh more complications and it sort of has a little bit of a in some cases a chilling effect because then you know you become hesitant to put something on the agenda or include it you know if you're making that discretion and then it's well why wasn't this included then you know there conspiracy theorists about transparency and you know if uh there's something in there that again is so at its infancy in terms of the the process and the deliberation and now you get hysteria over something that you know like take for example again or the indoor construction you know that that ordinance we're not even you know brought up to discuss but we're not moving ahead with it so people don't always understand the process and that can turn into more issues than it'll benefit anybody yeah and I think the dialogue that just transpired with regard to that particular issue is again all on the record I think we've sort of communicated what each member of the committee may or may not be you know opin as far as that's concerned and again as elected officials we Avail ourselves to the public to the extent again any member of the public would desire more information clarification they can certainly you know reach out to us reach out to you uh or or uh the clerk um and provide that information again I I would like to lean on best practic what was customarily done uh or is being done across municipality and I think there's some wisdom there as opposed to um uh making a decision here maybe even perhaps a policy in a vacuum I would I would encourage kind of what's prudent not not for you know the veil of transparency just making data dump I think that does the public disservice um there is organ and concerted dialogue here on the things that matter that we're again taking positions on and there are documents provided to us for review and consideration um and if the public would like more information I think that's a request can be made I'm not sure it's good practice to just put everything out there whether it's in certainly if it's in draft form I do expect believe that uh provides confusion I I'll um give you a perspective that um part of what you publish um for in advance of meetings um serves as um a way for people to determine whether or not to come to the meeting and speak their mind on an issue and that's why it occurred to me that if you wanted to provide something in advance those reports um absent some of the backup documents and the specifics the reports May provide enough information let's take the construction one for example so if we provided information about that potentially we could have contractors here at the meeting explaining to you why that may or may not be a good idea and that would inform your decision on whether or not to to pass such an ordinance without giving them the the little bit of information that you may get from a report they're not going to know enough I website to everything else they're not going to know enough to come here and express their opinion about a certain item I you know I think you know I'm conservative when it comes to Oprah and all things public documents and I have the municipalities is best interest at heart always but I I see some Merit to um including the reports to provide a little bit of context for people to be able to gauge whether or not it's an issue that they need to come and either speak to you outside of the meeting or come to a meeting to express their opinion on so that you can um hear from residents about specific issues does it raise the issue of we need to look at those reports to determine sometimes they can't be you know posted yeah I think that is going to have would have to be part of it if you decide to go that route I just see there there is some in my opinion Merit to providing some of that information to make it um so residents are able to make an informed decision about whether or not to come to public meeting and participate it's it's it's a fair point um I you know my position isn't necessarily one way or the other I just I think it would be wise to look at what best practices are having said that um I'm still very much a student of the game but my understanding was that was the that's the purpose and definition of our Workshop isn't the workshop supposed to provide a a window into what is forthcoming to in the next official committee meeting right before decisions are made before votes are passed my understanding with the workshop was doing essentially that function right providing some leading information as to what is being considered by the committee and what may or may not be decided upon at the subsequent committee meeting yes I this Workshop by definition I think is is by Design is supposed to I think address some of uh the concerns I think were voiced by the committee here but and I think I think we're doing it satisfactory job for what it's worth but uh I mean I would say if you guys want to look at municipalities websites in the area see which ones have Workshop meetings and which ones are publishing that information and which ones aren't and engage they the you know I think we just to what the clerk was saying we need some clear parameters right is it just a reports is it draft legislation is it you know whether it's the email from the environmental Commission on circulars is it the information I got from the consultant on the renewals some of these things too you know the if we're getting information from other people bids you know uh proposals things like that they they are reluctant to provide that stuff when it gets published and it's on the website forever um and you know that's sometimes it can have a chilling effect when you start putting all of that information out there um whether it's data proposals information uh opinions so we just need to know we're we we'll do what we want we're not objecting to putting it on there just want you to realize that you know whether it's reports tell us it's reports if it's draft legislation tell us that if it's everything minus things that are uh privileged under you know legal or Personnel you know we need some parameters on that so maybe that's something that is addressed in the bylaws for next year you know you do the bylaws I don't know yeah I mean I agree I feel like we have the workshop so we're getting stuff out to people we have our ordinances which have to have a public hearing where I find sometimes you know based on my years in those seats was the resolutions you know if those weren't circulated in advance it was hard to know what was included so but I I think it's when we take action so the days that we're taking action usually we put out the resolutions I think for the most part sometimes they're missing until the last minute and then maybe if we could have copies for anybody who attends but I think uh yeah I do think a lot of that is covered I mean I do think we try to put as much information in the title too I mean it's yeah so that way if somebody is interested they can always reach out and say Hey you need some more information on a fiber Loop bit I mean you know it's not not like we're trying to hide the information it's not like we're just saying you know bid you know we're not we are putting enough information here I think that somebody could look at it if they've got an interest in it they'll inquire yeah okay uh we didn't have our second hearing citizen yet uh we have no one online we have no one in the audience so you can the formality of opening it but sort of a moot point but I just have a few more questions under Administration uh regarding Recreation and Colony pool okay did you send those in in advance yes okay can we uh make it happy okay um so the the uh committee received Colony pool information with Revenue numbers for many years and uh the the revenue numbers for 2021 are not correlated to any of our data from that the that the pool committee had received over um anyway for 2021 or previous reports from the pool committee or or from this body and um Mr Shi and I had it back and forth about you know correcting that and it seemed to me that the he could speak for himself but it seems to me that the answer was we're not going to correct previous Revenue numbers for past years we're going to correct going forward and um so I I think uh one thing is that I looked at the audit from 2021 which was accepted in 2022 which I think Mr Choy mayor eal and I all voted on uh you know to accept the the audit which has a number of $279,000 of revenue from Colony pool membership fees and dues and that audit which for the benefit of the public of course is you know our auditor our accountants our the accounting staff rather our CFO and you know many eyes are reviewing that that's $279,000 is roughly $100,000 higher than what was reported to this committee and you know the significance of that going forward of course is if you're a manager and you're a good manager you're going to look at your your data over a period of time you're going to say well what direction are we going in and why and when did we do the best and what happened then um and so you know 20121 being here the data that we received in the report makes it seem like it was somewhat of a H home uh year but actually it was the greatest year that Colony pool has ever had recorded ever and it has not been repeated and so I I think to you know have such an egregious change there is uh really you know it's significant and I think when you're reflecting on Colony pool numbers and you're thinking about um you know what what changes we need to make to get back to something like what happened in 2021 yeah to at least have a good Baseline okay that's yeah I quickly went through that back and forth and it seemed like from Mr shot's answer that that it was unclear because you seem to pull exactly what apparently was pulled in the past and there seemed to be some disconnect can I make a suggestion maybe we just include that what Revenue has been booked so you have your what you're dumping from the system you put in what revenue is booked so I mean the the the response I provid may is these are season report so this is the end of season report for 2024 so the revision I'll make is just delete all the information prior to 2024 no other department is providing information going this far back this was part of a report that in 2022 the proceeding report template that in 2022 the pool manager at that point prepared I don't know how he you know came to those numbers and it just carried on so we're just adding the numbers the the thing to do those numbers oh so you didn't pull some retro no we didn't pull it the same numbers that are here are the same numbers that were in the 2023 report the same numbers that were in the 2022 report it just coln so like this fixation on this is just you know nonsensical just ignore those delete those you've got the audit that's what you really want to rely go go with the audit that's it so you know to be arguing over these numbers well that's before me before our current pool manager before the pool manager before that and and what that methodology was I don't know we had to you know like I said it's just been adding on so okay got it I think we're just uh the the purpose of this though is really what should be happening every year and we've discussed this many times in this Committee in in various forms and is that really we should be discussing at season close when we have the numbers we should be discussing what should be going forward in terms of the policies for Colony pools terms of programming promotion and pricing those those discussions should be had now because launch really needs to happen in January or February for a pool club and so you can't do that unless you get a running start and I I would ask if you could go back to the Colony pool advisory committee and get their inputs based on you know feedback on the the year what do they think in terms of pricing I mean now's a time to get the advisory committees input to that process the same thing we're doing all the budget work and everything else at this so so and the advisory committee has always used the Revenue data and the membership counts the registration counts on a year bit year basis and created graphs and charts in order to inform decisionmaking because that's what you do you analyze and then you synthesize but without analyzing you're never going to come up with a decent synthesis and so to say we're just going to erase all the data we have in the back background and just drop it off well it precludes proper analization I would say go I would say I would focus on going forward what did we learn this year I don't think 2021 is actually relevant to saying what what can we do going forward to actually make money and not be in the hole I would say we have X we've had X number of members this year they pay X dollar amount is membership consistent what happened with expenses um you know what does next year look like and the year after that because things have markedly changed since three years so I would say what happened this year what does next year look like and that's what the advisory committee should be putting together what are our targets for membership and what do we need to do to get to those targets and then how do we manage expenses that's that's it well the advisory committee can't manage expenses that like that's just not within the scope of of how anything that that the advisory committee was formed if we' like to change what the advisory committee does you know we we certainly could have a conversation we spent this we spent that that's fine but they can make a proposal it needs to start there with them it doesn't need to start here with this committee on us deciding how many members do we need to get what were the expenses last year in order to at least break even that needs to start at The Advisory level and the people that are boots on the ground and that lived and breathed it all summer and then bring the recommendations here we are at average 1600 members what do we need to do to get to 1700 1800 what is our capacity what is our Max do we need to send out a fly do we need to invite other people from other towns I don't know that's what the advisory committee could do what what what is the issue is that that advisory committee is not getting the data or they're not getting no no the issue is that the the in that there was incorrect information presented here to this Committee in this report and that I had asked for it to be reviewed and revised based on and asked what the plan was for that and I was told that we're going to drop that data okay and I don't think that's a prudent decision okay and I was able to quickly get it just by looking it through an audit and so the data is there whether it's in this spreadsheet this spreadsheet is intended for 2024 data you have the data nobody saying delete the audits don't look at the numbers you have it so why are we arguing about cells in here that have no they're irrelevant the point of this report is 2024 and 2023 as I said no other Deport you're not going over the police Department's 2021 numbers you're not going over the clerk's 21 numbers so why are we fixating on this cuz 2021 makes somebody look better makes so let's just ignore this the 2024 numbers that's the point of this report I didn't bring up making somebody look better but Mr shotty you also as you had it excluded from my own biography what happened in 2021 that was on the township website so I it is clear to me what you're trying to do no I'm not trying to do I'm trying to this board and individuals on this board don't politicize government action that's what I'm trying to do that's my obligation that's the clerk's obligation we're not going to let anybody politicize things there was an audit we all agreed to use the a why wouldn't that be your answer Mr shahadi why would they why would your answer be instead we'll just delete all the old information why would you just say hey I I have another form of I have another I've had my Phill I've had my Phill Mr lante uh I going to formally open the public hearing nobody's online right no one's online no one's in the audience I don't want it to be said I didn't open a public hearing and I'm going to close the public hearing I will entertain motion to move into executive session so move I'll second and what's the reason we're supposed to publicly see what is the we left to discuss contract negation contract negotiation okay um Mr Lois yes Mr MCH yes Mrs Rand yes deput mayor Choy yes mayor heal yes so we do not anti anticipate taking any action after but we'll resume in public session to close out the meeting and we are in executive session thank you recording stopped okay I think we finished discing