you have uh the front entry recess back under under a porch and then you have uh a porch on the roof uh all of which breaks up the frontal Mass you you uh they've kept the Gable Ridge below the main Ridge of the house uh again working to keep the the parent mass of the building down the uh uh so I think that in terms of creating a building that gives them comfortable year round living you know this project meets that goal again it's larger uh than than the neighbors around it but uh we have spoken to the neighbor to the left the one closest to the Cape Cod 5 uh and he told uh Rick Roy that after looking at the design he had no objection to the building uh we have not heard from the other neighbors on the street we would point out that the building most directly affected by this is substantially higher than this building uh and so it's going to continue to look over it it also gets to look down the street as well uh the property on the right hand side actually has two buildings and by Blackberry Lan standand it's an enormous lot because it's got a separate garage and then the house up on the top of the hill so uh as I say the house is larger uh substantially larger than the existing structure but I think the design uh is is one that reflects the neighborhood the properties that you would think well might have an objection because they're having a larger home built in front of them are really so much higher that they they continue to look over it and uh you know our neighbor to the left uh really has no objection at least that's what he told us or told Rick so I'll just run through the criteria the U the lot is small I know Dave measured it out at 6,100 and something but on the original subdivision plan it says 6200 square feet but it's a small lot uh the but we think the project decides is adequate for the proposed project because the other than uh the front setback uh we do meet the current zoning setbacks on the other sides of the building it's an R20 Zone setbacks of 15 feet uh so I think that uh you know we our coverage of course is way over 15% but our coverage is no greater with this design than it was than it is with the existing design 29.1% so we're not increasing the coverage uh we're just massing the buildings together so we think to the extent that the current building and its coverage are adequate we think this is adequate as well compatibility the size of the proposed tructure with neighboring properties the you know if you look at our numbers on the back page we are substantially larger uh than the other structures the um I think that's has more to do with the fact that you know modern construction uh tends to be much more efficient in providing space inside structures uh that and of course the uh the fact that we had you know gross floor area includes the basement but the living space in the building is uh right around 3,000 square fet which uh is not in this day and age an unreasonable number the U the first floor is500 Square F feet and the second floor is like 1497 so it's just 3,000 ft of living space space and the the uh and I think once you take into consideration the fact that our design although larger mimics the design of the house next door you know it really is a compatible property the U extended proposed increase in a non-conforming nature again the the um because we're meeting all the existing setbacks and not encroaching on them any further uh it's the living space in the building that's um increasing the non-conformity uh we think the site is suitable for the proposed project is level although it's a tight site and I know the contractor is going to have to put up temporary barriers to make sure that no material from the excavation is going to be a problem for the neighbors next door um but we don't think storm water is a concern in this neighborhood scale sighting of Mass on neighborhood visual character so the building is larger and the ridge is taller uh I think that you know the with the with the buildings in the rear of the subdivision being so much higher uh the height of this building is really kind of uh you distracted from the height of this building building by the fact that the buildings in the rear are so much taller uh the we know that the buildings in the rear are going to look over the top of this building and the the U uh and in terms of visual impact I mean we're mimicking the design of the property to the left uh so I think you know it's a dead end street with no through traffic the design is a traditional Cape design uh using Dormers uh rather than having a full second floor uh so I think that although it is considerably larger the the impact on the neighborhood visual character is generally positive and in our view is not substantially more detrimental than the existing structure uh compar comp abbility of the proposed use it remains a single family home in a single family neighborhood uh and all the services uh SWS disposal Etc they're on public uh sewer and you know public services so there's really no impact on traffic flow and safety or noise and litter so I think uh I think this project can be approved as being not substantially more detrimental uh than the existing building that' be our presentation thank you is there anybody here are on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application if so please raise your hand seeing none right nothing no questions from the board uh Dave NOP reading the correspondence there is just one from our health agent and uh she does not see any issues with it she writes Jud on uh 611 202 four Judith Georgio uh States I've received the plan to demolish the existing dwelling and rebuild a new dwelling the new dwelling will remain four bedroom uh property is connected to the municipal sewer I have no no concerns now if there's anybody here are on Microsoft teams that has a question or wishes to speak against this application please raise your hand seeing none now we'll go with questions from the board Dave um the only thing that I was I had a question and Bill I imagine Rick can answer this um the um you know looking at the proposed the existing and proposed Ridge Heights and the um I'm just wondering the um the L on the proposal that's facing the street he has a Gable facing the street how much lower is that Ridge than the than the main uh Ridge behind it I don't know we have the engineer and the construction guy here I mean I couldn't tell because you know frequently these scales get messed up when we reduce the size of drawing so uh rck Ro construction at this point in time I mean I could tell you if I had my computer set up in front of me okay but I do know that looking at the plant it's at least 3 and 1 12 ft probably lower that that was my guess it three and a half probably or three to four anyway okay um okay that's all I had for for now thanks jie any questions from you no questions and Steve I have no questions pleas no questions well Bill I'm just trying to uh get a handle on your on your handout uh today uh you indicate that the uh existing gross floor area is uh 3575 and the proposed is 4667 point6 and in the materials that we received with respect to the package it says that the total existing square footage is 2439 as opposed to 3575 and that the proposed square footage is 4769 as opposed to 4667 yeah I don't know where I don't know perhaps Sarah can tell us where they get the numbers from because the uh we're relying on that the plans were provided uh To Us by uh Rick's company that was part of your submittal Bill how you pardon that was part of your submitt so you gave us those numbers ex well then they're clearly accurate the existing and proposed gross floor area sheet that was broken down by first floor second floor and Foundation existing and proposed was page four of the yeah packet all right okay so now the U so what was your question Paul well I'm trying to reconcile this it seems to say the total existing square footage at least on your hand in your propos in your submission was 2439 sare ft and what your handout today indicates is that it's 3575 so um you would be going from a total existing square footage of 24 set 39 to 46 either 4667 or 4769 Paul that may be that the garage wasn't included in the initial packet subm submission for gross floor area that could be the difference yeah the um did I get this to your office I have no idea where it came from so I can speak to in designing the project or whatever okay um the in order to be able to get it so that they could get the increase in the floor area in the main house all right we actually eliminated the garage so we incorporated that square footage into the main house because it's basically covering the same area that the garage and the existing house was covering the increase in the square footage of the living space would be the fact that in the existing if you if Sarah you would have show the existing house okay it's really a two-story house but not over the you know the majority of the second floor so there's a second story on that uh Gable end so we kind of mimic that that that Dave when we you were talking about what's the height of this section of the house and then we put a second story with a dmer on it that goes over this section with the three windows so we basically covered the second floor but we're really taking the garage space and putting it over top of the the house all right and then because we put a covered porch on the house we really didn't increase that area because it it counts for Sight coverage but it doesn't really count for habitable space because it's outside the building so we tried to be very modest about what we were doing okay unfortunately you don't build a new house today okay with 7 foot ceilings on the first floor and 6 foot six ceilings on the second floor so when you build it it it does get a little bit taller because you're building it to today's standards so so do seem consistent to you Rick that uh you're going from the living area um on the existing property of about 2439 to uh 4769 you know I I it seems to me that the discrepancy is a little bit larger than I think it really is that's the the uh 4769 includes the basement of the new house okay well I understand that I'm just I'm just trying to get a feel for uh and I and I don't object to it increasing in size but I'm trying to get a feel for how much of a difference there is well I think I think the way to best way to think about that is the um uh the proposed living area if you look on the the floor plan uh the yeah so if you see they have existing and proposed so on the first floor plan they're proposing 1585 Square ft on the first floor and on the second floor it's, 1497 MH so was basically 3,000 square ft of living area in the building and the prior living area you're saying was uh 24 39 um well yeah we have the same numbers here but it looks like more like 2,000 and 2100 yeah 1479 and 617 so 2, say 21100 Square ft of living area and there's not a basement in the existing building and there's no there's no basement so an existing building so the logic big part of the discrepancy is going to be the fact that we have to count we're putting a basement under the house which there really isn't a basement under the existing structure now okay all right I guess that answers my question yeah the number to keep in mind is the living areas 3,000 square ft basically I have no other questions and I'd also point out that uh the neighbors all received notice and um they haven't filed objections and Rick spoke to our next door neighbor and what did that conversation go like so uh the next door neighbor is actually an old Tow and we knew a lot of the same people uh C small and c kahon and all these builders that I worked with when I was in high school uh his wife was the daughter of uh the owners of the Wayside Inn uh and those two lots were owned by that family and they actually divided those two lots so he's a big part of the history of the town and he was certainly uh not objecting to the project he thought it would be a good project the house has a is kind of a little oddl looking anyways as it exists now because it has that massive chimney you know on that and of the house and everything will kind of be brought back more into perspective with you know is in the new design so he was perfectly good I did try to talk him into sending an email in but I don't think he's probably doesn't know how to use a computer maybe I don't know like you okay so moving along to questions um Paul did you have any more questions no and uh lee Steve you went already Jenny questions well I didn't have a question but I think the biggest part of the number discrepancy is the garage that that's not included in your information Mr Riley here but it's included in the gross floor area of your new design because your new design includes that coverage right so I think that's the biggest part that in the discrepancy of the basement that's how that was my interpretation oh I think you're probably right Jenny okay so just one other question came so um Rick I can't tell I'm any question you're talking about the ceiling Heights do you know what the the design ceiling Heights are using in the new building are they' be 9 foot one on the first floor 8 foot one on the second okay that's all set thanks no questions Dave no questions okay I don't think I have any questions either so um Paul all right I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations Dave seconds and votes yes yes Jenny yes PA yes as do I all right deliberations Ed um I think the design fits in well with that that area of town um it is um quite an increase but eliminating the garage and incorporating into the house I I feel it's reasonable and um if I was Voting I would uh vote in the affirmative Dave Nixon deliberations yeah I I like this uh the only thing I'm sorry to see is the garage G and I know that if it stayed we'd be up in 35% and that kind of stuff and could I be talked into that I don't know I mean maybe but I'm just saying uh certainly the house is a great Improvement and with those two as you pointed out with the two homes at the end so much taller and really uh it kind of fits in it kind of Nestles in so I like it very much dve yeah I I I spent a little time out there just trying to visualize it and I'm certainly looking at the existing building you can see how everything is kind of squashed down and there's a need to to increase the height um over what's there and you know with the with those uh as Dave said those um properties closer to the golf course being higher uh and the fact that the neighbor um da there doesn't have any problems with I I think it's a it it certainly is going to be it's going to be have somewhat more visual mass than what's there but I don't think it's I think the design fits very well and I don't think that it's jarringly more massive in any way shape or form I think it's it it will um it's not substantially more detrimental in the neighborhood and will fit in yeah Jenny yeah I agree with my colleagues um I see that it's going up it's not going out um it uh had you know inches different in the setback no change to building coverage because of folding in the garage I mean the height is a little tall but it's really not for that lot like you pointed out it's quite you know substantially uphill and the houses behind it are are up on that hill and are taller so I I believe it meets our criteria okay Steve um well I think that if you use your imagination a little bit the proposed front elevation looks a lot like the existing front elevation with the addition of of the second story so um you know I'm glad you're sort of in keeping with that and with the neighborhood um so the increase in in mass is mostly over the front door with the expansion of the second floor so I think it looks like a nice project um and it is very similar to the other houses in the neighborhood and I don't think it would be detrimental and we I agree and um once again I really love the plans with the existing and proposed and we can see it side by side and it's very very helpful um I think this is going to be great it's a small lot the building's large but with those two those two up in the hills save it so uh I if I were voting I'd vote in favor and Paul yes I agree I think I think the setting is what saves it is the larger houses behind it and to the right as you go up the road uh if those were not there then I would be much more hesitant about dealing with the whole thing because it is uh quite a bit larger and it's going to be solid um but I think as it stands it will not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood no and I I agree with all my colleagues what about conditions building conditions there have to be conditions the usual summer we we'll be starting in the fall probably so all right I'll move to approve the application as submitted with the conditions that all conr construction activity and vehicles will be contained on site or at a neighboring property with the permission of the property owner between June 30th and Labor Day no exterior construction will be allowed no work will be permitted on the weekends and construction activity between 8:00 a. and 5:00 p.m. only Dave V seconds and votes yes I vote Yes yes well yes as do I it's unanimous once again Mr Riley congratulations thank you very much hatrick for you today and whenever Sarah's ready we're going to go to uh 46 Bond Hill Lan application number 24-58 Kevin B Castello trust 2018 and Sophia Castell Trust 2018 care of James M Norcross Esquire PE boox 707 chattam Mass 02633 owners of property located at 46 Barnhill Lane also shown on the town of chadam assessor map 9C Block 19 lot 35 the applicant proposes to change alter or expand a non-conforming dwelling on a non-conforming lot VI the demolition of the existing dwelling and the construction of a new dwelling the existing dwelling is non-conforming and it is located 21.6 ft from the road and 14.9 ft from the easterly butter the proposed dwelling will be non-conforming and that it will be located 13 ft from the road where a 25t setback is required the existing building coverage is 795 ft 5.6% and the proposed building coverage is 2,155 squ Ft 14.8% where 15% is the maximum allowed the lot is non-conforming and then it contains 14274 ft or 20,000 ft is required the R20 zoning District a special permit is required under M Law chapter 48 section 6 and section 5B of the protective bylaw attorney Norcross welcome good afternoon Jamie Norcross representing Kevin and Sophia Costello uh Mr Mrs Costello are in the back in the red and white shirt this afternoon and this is a proposal uh to demolish the existing two-bedroom dwelling and to build a new uh two-bedroom dwelling um the costellos have owned the property almost 15 years now and they will uh in the near future be retiring and looking to make chadam their full-time residents um they also have three grown daughters uh and they're hopeful of grandchildren in not too distant future so um a few years ago they started looking at the property in terms of adding some additional living area uh it's a current 1970 70s era Cottage so it's pretty tight uh when the family's in town initially they had looked at uh perhaps expanding the existing structure they have done some work over the years they added the back deck that you see on the property now and they converted the prior deck into a three- season um living area however the the um Manner and the um the status of the construction from the 70s really didn't make it conducive to adding on to the existing building so they um changed their um Avenue to look at uh building a new house and so um as you see from the plane and from being outside it's a very challenging a lot um so the design process for them has been um difficult uh pretty involved they've been working with David Clark for quite a while now to try to come up with a design that would fit the property and their their two main goals in addition to the living area was to um get the house up closer to the street level um and get rid of that existing very significant slope that's on the property running down from Barn Hill Lane which really doesn't make for a great use of the property they also wanted to add it a second story for the additional living area and so uh and David Clark I should have mentioned is here as well who is the engineer and he can explain this better than I do if you have specific questions on the height but uh in order to um I'll be back up a second so we have the building um where we're going to meet all the um sideline setbacks we are not going to meet the setback from Barnhill Lane which I'm sure is going to come up and so I'm going to address that in a moment uh we're going to meet the height requirement and we're going to meet the coverage requirement now I would suggest the height requirement in this instance or our building height number is a a little bit um deceptive we're right at 30 ft um and that's because of we have to calculate using the average grade and as you're familiar the average grades calculated you take the grade from the four sides of the home you combine them you take the average and then that's you add 30 feet from that because the property um is uh so significantly uh lower as you go toward the back our average grade number is reduced significantly as well which makes it very difficult to build um to meet the 30 foot height limitation and have a second story so while the structure is right at 30 ft um as evaluated pursuant to your zoning bylaw under the grade plane calculation the structure itself as measured from the top of the foundation to the ridge is 26 feet so the the number David shows you there were right at 30 feet but the actual house it's not a 30 foot house it's really a 26 foot house as measured from the top of the foundation so I want to clarify that and one other item um is that I'm sure the board is saying why are you moving it closer to the street when you're going bigger right that's a reasonable question for your criteria and the reason is if you move it back then we're over the 30 foot height limitation if you want to have a second story because the lower numbers as that slope continues to go down we have to use those into the grade plane calculation meaning anything with a second story is going to be over the 30 foot height limitation which would require variance so when we talk about a difficult lot that's really the main difficulty if you want to have a second story this is where the structure has to be in order to meet the grade plane calculations for 30 ft um David mentioned you know you could build it further back if you had a one-story Ranch but again with Mr Muses costell looking to increase the living area and have that second story this is the location where they can meet that calculation and be under the 30 foot limitation um I also asked David well can you fill more of the area in the back to raise your grade plan he says no they're already doing a a significant amount of fill proposed and they can't do anymore on the site so that's not a um Avenue for them either so it's not a situation where they want to have it at this distance to the street they do want to have a second story and this is where it has to be located if they're going to meet the 30- foot height limitation so I did want to explain that um in terms of the mass obviously it's bigger than what's there now obviously it's closer to the street I would suggest point out a couple items to you so the 13 ft that you see is just going to find the point there go the 13 ft is to the porch area right here and to the bump out that's on the um uh the middle uh of the building in this portion right here that's 13 fet these uh dogghouse Dormers here and here and that portion of the roof is set back further from that and the foundation so the structure here where you see the door that's actually 21 feet set back from the street the garage is 29 feet set back from the street so I mentioned that by way of saying it's not all at 13 ft all the way across it's staggered which does help reduce the massing as viewed from the street uh I'd also say the massing uh issue is reduced a bit by the fact that we don't uh Mr Mrs Costel are not proposing any living area over the garage it's just attic space so that's a lower Ridge height there as you can see on the plan which Again by having the different setbacks having the different roof elevations having the Dormers uh on the front of the house here I think helps break up the massing from the street level again it's uh from the first floor it's a 25t house um the first floor is about a foot and a half lower than the street so it's still going to be a little bit lower than the street so as viewed from Barn Hill Lane you are still going to look down a bit which again I think helps reduce the issues of the height being within the setback to to the street um so moving along to the criteria number one adequacy of the site in terms of size we believe the size is adequate as I mentioned we will meet all s sideline setbacks and we are below the 15% maximum building coverage allowed for this property uh I went into some detail on the setback to Barn Hill Lane so I won't mention that at this point um but I will say that I don't think the size will overwhelm the streetcape and the grade in the area of the home as it will remain slightly below the grade at street level and most of the other properties in this area are at street level or just below which is what this one will be as well compatibility of the size of the proposed structure with neighboring property uh in the the gross floor area analysis I provided I focused on the surrounding properties in Barnhill Lane and Chatfield Lane uh majority of the homes in this area were originally built in the 1970s but a number have undergone significant expansion and renovation the last 25 years as you can see in that chart I would suggest the size of the proposed home is actually quite compatible with the neighboring homes in terms of the gross floor area number and lot size I think it's may not be right in the middle but it's certainly not the most and there's a number of properties larger um so I think we certainly are compatible extent to the proposed increasing non-conforming nature of the structure uh we are going to meet the sideline setbacks but we are increasing uh the setback um increasing the uh structure within the setback to Barn Hill Lane so that would be an increase in the non-conforming nature of the structure suitability the site including but not limited to impact and neighboring properties uh we believe the site is suitable for the proposed Demolition and rebuild uh no negative impact on neighboring properties uh or the environment caused by the proposed construction I think the Reg of the site should actually uh represent an improvement uh long term for any runoff and drainage on site five is impact scale signing and mass and neighborhood visual character for the reasons I suggested I don't think it's going to have a negative impact on the neighborhood visual character I I think it's obviously a big change but I think um the costellos and David have worked hard to try to mitigate the setac issue um The increased height the ceiling Heights it's eight and a half on the first floor it's it's eight on the second floor so they're not maxing out inside they try to pinch those down as much as they can um to keep it so it's a reasonable size home and I don't think it's a it's not a a big house it's just we're set back close to the street for the reasons that I explained I would also mention that um you'll read we have three letters of support from the need from the immediate butters on the left right and the rear of the property so arguably the three Property Owners that' be most affected by this are in favor of the project and also um the this area sloped significantly from the other side of Barn Hill Lane down toward Chatfield Lane so that also those old homes on the other side of Barn Hill Lane set up higher than this already so I think that again helps mitigate um the encroachment into the street uh it's a residential use in a residential neighborhood and therefore compatible uh we have adequate source of water and we're going to have a new septic system installed as part of the project no impact on traffic flow and safety no issues with noise and litter we have adequate utilities and 11 and 12 are not applicable um so that'd be our presentation uh David as I mentions here to answer any any real technical questions you have on grade and and height and everything else and I appreciate your time thank you very much is there anybody here or on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application if so please raise your hand seeing none I will read the four correspondences one is from our health agent Judith Georgio on 611 2024 she writes I I have reviewed the plan to demolish the existing dwelling and rebuild a new dwelling the new dwelling will have two bedrooms and will not encroach on the existing septic system the property property is deed restricted to two bedrooms I have no concerns about this project then we have a letter from Matt Evans from 56 Barnhill Lane who writes on May 29th 2024 I am writing to express my support for Kevin and Sophia castello's proposal to construct a new build on their property at 46 barn hill I have review the plans with the costellos and agree with the scope of their proposed new home next we have a note from Alan hbaca from May 29th 2024 who writes I hope this letter finds you well I'm writing to express my wholehearted support for the new house being built at 46 Barnhill Lane the project promises to bring positive change to our community provide beautiful modern housing and enhancing our neighborhoods appeal thank you for your efforts in making this development a reality I'm confident it'll be a great success and a wonderful addition to our area Mr and Mrs Allen hos Baka Kevin Costello writes uh on let's see no I'm sorry yeah James Dolan and Janice Fahy um they write on uh let's see it's dated 52824 I'm writing to express my wholehearted support for for Kevin and Sophia's Costello's proposal to a to build a house on their property I believe their plans will bring numerous benefits to our neighborhood and contribute positively to our community the construction of a new house on 46 B Hill will have several positive impacts to our neighborhood including aesthetic enhancement the costellos have a reputation for tasteful and considerate design their new home is expected to blend harmoniously with the existing architecture of the neighborhood enhancing the overall aesthetic appeal of barill Lane increased property values well-designed and maintained homes contribute to the overall value of the area the addition to the castello's house is likely to increase property values in our neighborhood benefiting all residents economic stimulus the construction process will provide jobs for local contractors Builders suppliers thereby supporting the local economy Additionally the cell's investment in their property demonstrates confidence in the growth and stab ility of our neighborhood Safety and Security an occupied and well-maintained home contributes to the Safety and Security of the neighborhood the presidents of the costellos will help deter a crime and ensure that the area remains a safe place for all residents in conclusion I strongly support Kevin and Sophia castello's plan to build a house at 46 Barnhill Lane I'm confident their new home will be available no will be a valuable addition to our neighborhood and bring numerous benefits to our community I I asked the zba to approve the proposal thank you for considering my perspective on this matter again that's James Dolan and Janice fahe of 36 Bon Hill Lane that concludes the correspondences is there anybody here or Microsoft teams that wishes to speak against this application or has a specific question seeing nobody nobody okay questions Dave no no I have no questions at this point thanks Ed uh yeah I have a question for Dave Clark Dave um I guess my question is the the house moving it further back it seems to me that it could be pushed further back it would require more fill and more retaining but um The Heights determined from the grade uh not the existing grade but the grade after the Project's completed so could you explain to me why it it's placed where it is so the two challenges with the two results of moving it back is is that first the the house has to be lowered as you go back we can't maintain the same first floor elevation so one of the goals was to have it near the street level um so because it comes down as you go back um it steepens the driveway uh to the point where um the garage might not be viable uh possibility for so those are the two yes we can fill more in the back um but that that doesn't keep the house up at the same level it it puts it down further in the hole so it's it's sort of a tradeoff of yes getting it getting the house to street level which I think is the best you know sighting for the house but if the further you go back the it's going to be not as drastic as it is now but somewhere in between yeah we we spent L we spent I think three maybe four months going back and forth with the architect um we actually took some height out of the the first and second floor ceiling Heights uh just because it was not going to work um and we went back and forth with the location uh we knew that 13 ft was going to be an issue and we looked at moving it back we just couldn't get the driveway to work um and um you see where the septic system is um that would have to be moved um further down the slope uh which means most of this area is is in fill already which means a substantial overd big and and so it it was a balance it it was and again it was a very difficult process um you know bigger houses on Big Lots are easy um it's this this is probably the most topographically challenged lot we've worked on in a decade at least thank you Dave Nixon questions I do thank you uh and I want to thank Dave Clark for the numbers that he produced for us as far as the height of the houses to the right and to the left uh that was beyond the call du I called up Dave and ask if he can help us out and he a sure so uh again thank you very much Dave for doing that uh my my problem with the home has designed is the 13 ft from the street you know it just um I I think Jamie as you know I hate to see something that is already not okay by zoning made worse so that so I circle around and I asked both of you the question why don't you take the existing house and rebuild that into a two-story home that would fulfill your client's needs for a larger house so you have an answer for that the would me just build a second story on the current yeah I mean you'd have to put you I understand you'd have to put a foundation under it and all the rest of it but you would rebuild that house sort of in the dimension it is maybe a little bit and it would go up too and would fulfill the need that you explained that your clients have for a larger house they want a house with a second story and so I understand that okay but if you did it where the current home is wouldn't that eliminate a lot of these problems that you know like my concern about too close to the street and so well I think number one it's not getting up to the street level if it's there which was a goal as well in terms of this is getting rid of that significant slope that you see when you're staring out at the hill um number two I think we'd probably still have a height issue potentially but David would have to answer that even if you're going to add on to the existing number three and Mr Castell might be able to answer this better than I but the the way the home was built uh and actually he's coming up right now if I may CU he's the one that saw the U the type of construction that was used when this was built that would make it difficult to add on to Kevin just want to introduce yourself hi Kevin Costello from 46 pound Lane so the the current house does not have any studs it is a tongue and groove house it has it on the plate it's toen nailed it goes up to the eaves and then is a 2x4 that runs all the way around and then they drop the Tresses on it so structurally you can't take anything on on top and you also can't open up probably more than a door length on the sides or you lose Integrity well I guess my question was uh really uh totally demolishing that house and since you're interested in building a New Home Building the new home at that location where the existing house is you know generally speaking you know foot here and there and all that and so going up and getting your two stories that you need yet not infringing on the closeness to the street and you wouldn't have the problem of getting over you know the quick rise I mean when I looked at I said GE why not rebuild that house into a two story house that fits your desires so I I can personally for me I watched my father go right off the hill so that's that's one of the reasons he went off the wall so I just look at it when I get older I'm going to do the same same thing so that's why getting to the street is so so much there and that is not a lie okay well all right so so oh just to say I guess you could it's just there was the second layer there which was getting it up to the street level or closer right right um and that's one of my problems about getting it up to okay thank you very much thank you thank you for your time Jenny questions uh yeah Jamie um so uh well as Mr Nixon mentioned Dave Clark provided some additional information about height and um I just want to make sure I'm interpreting this right first floor to Ridge so maybe this is a question for Dave Clark um first floor to Ridge for the for the two Neighbors on both sides EAB buing 36 and 56 um and also 46 is it am I thinking about it right when Dave when I when I take your numbers um uh let's use 36 as an example 17.8 ft is the number from first floor to Ridge is that is that really what we're looking at as the height of that house from like street level that's not from average grade it um no not from the average grade that that's what was confusing us basically from the front door threshold to the ridge Okay so that's what I thought um so in using that 36 then is 7 and 1/2 ft lower than what is being proposed for 46 is that true uh 17.8 24.9 yeah roughly Y and then 56 on the other side is 6 and a half 6.3 feet lower than what 46 is proposing right okay y all right I wanted to just make sure because I know the average grade you're right it was very confusing um Okay so then it's significantly 46 is significantly taller just from looking from the street level yeah it's a from actual height it is significantly taller that's correct okay 36 the uh the property on 36 barn hill it it's was a I thought a really good example of the same situation grade wise and they they have done a really nice job I'm not sure how of it's street level maybe it's it I think it's the second maybe it's one and a half story it's not a full TW story maybe that's how they were able to accomplish it but they they are set farther back they're not they're not right on the street so maybe you can ex yeah okay so maybe that's what it is it's it's a smaller it's not as tall it's smaller it's 2 feet higher first floor so it's it's like you said it's it's right at street level um but it's a much smaller house um and and you could you could see from the roof line that um only a very small portion of the second floor is occupiable space because there's no dormers on the street side but what I was kind of looking at with that neighbor was how they accomplished that gr issue so so your applicant 46 is just to the left of that image and so they almost have that same topography issue and they were able they're quite a bit back from the street and so if you you use this as an example couldn't you go that far back fill in that grade and uh and add maybe not your exact design but add a full add a bigger home than that Second Story would would that not be it sounds like you're having you can't meet that grade issue which the other the other thing is I I doubt the first floor ceiling Heights even meet today's code of okay so they're like 7 FO 3 or 7 fo 6 and and I think the second floor is significantly is probably lower than that I mean that's an old style uh Cape construction um 7 foot or less ceiling Heights um well when I look at Jamie your sheet that you included in your packet right you you are showing that there was a 2021 Edition on 36 yeah I don't think that's a current photo of that property memory CU it it was redone and Kevin would probably know uh the time frame better than I did but there was a Kevin you got to come to the microphone sorry so they bought they put they added a covered porch on the deck so they brought that out to the back and then they put a dorm off the second floor they just they they swung it right up that's all so they really expanded the back and added a dormer on the top so they covered the current deck that's there now with a roof line and then then kept the same roof height right it didn't look like it was a and their back the yard does not yeah sorry that's an old picture right yeah it's an old picture yeah yeah okay all right um and their back doesn't drop off nearly the way ours does either yeah the topography in the photography oh the back doesn't okay all right yeah I was really looking I guess at the front so where yeah so see I'm struggling also with how close it is to the street so you can see where your house is I mean having it8 8.6 feet from the street is like where that boat is that's where you're proposing no well the it's um if you uh there's a rock wall just to the right of that boat yeah and it's down at the bottom of that rock wall would be the distance there were the red stakes that down there yeah so kind of on the other side of that kind of where the kind of where the light the top light Po is that would be kind of I remember now okay um that's all I had thank you thank you Steve questions yeah I have a couple of questions I guess they might get progressively more difficult but the first one is the shed where because it says here that it's going to be relocated but I don't see any place where it's going to go is that I know it's not a big deal but I didn't talk to Kevin about that but we can ask him since he's here where his plans to put the shed the shed most likely would go to right against the back of the garage okay meeting all the setbacks okay okay I guess my biggest concern and it sounds like it is for everyone else is the proximity of the house to the street and I think it's to me it's almost D too Dangerously close um I could see a car um in bad weather driving into the front of it you probably don't want that to happen um I kind of like Dave's idea of maybe trying to to uh repurpose the the the space on the lot where the house is now you know you're you're going to go through the trouble of building a new house with a foundation so why not build a new house in the same location where the house is now um um do you know or can you tell us how much fill is going to need to be placed in there and if there's any retaining wall at the rear of the property I see there's something on the side but what's going to keep all of that from sliding down uh that is the only retaining wall I guess David if you want to could address the amount of fill please uh I haven't done a fill calculation so I I don't know what the answer is to that question uh so no retaining wall is needed on the south side of the house um it it will be at I think a 3:1 slope uh Which is less than the the maximum you can get away with two and a half sometimes two to one slopes um so care will be needed to uh when the fill is placed to to properly cover it cover it with a um geotextiles uh to keep it in place till the vegetation is established okay um and it won't be sloped so much that you know just normal lawn or something will be able to hold it in place eventually if yeah um I I don't foresee any any more substantial vegetation than what's there now needed to to hold all that um what is the the line of of where the fill has to go back to is it going to affect that septic tank at all or or any of the the we we have to adjust the the tank you have to bring it up that yes we because the board of Health's requirement is no more than 3 of fill over any one of the components we'll have to take so there's going to have to be some excavation to to raise expose the tanks and lift it up okay um I guess that's it for now you know again kind of circling back I my biggest concern I think it's a very nice looking house um but the proximity of the house to the road I think is too close I think it's much closer than the other houses around it um and it may be a bit looming um over the over the the the street being that close to it um you know I just wish that something else could be done to eliminate that situation thank you and wee um I have no questions they were all asked already yeah Paul I guess my only question would be where do the uh uh pave portion of Barnhill Road uh barill Lane compared to the uh layout in other words there's a distance I assume between uh the property line and the pavement I believe that's the David right that's the that's the pavement right there and then that's the property line so it's so you are you saying that the you would add on to the 13 ft an additional six uh you would add on I'm not sure we know the exact distance but it would be an additional number of feet to the actual Street or actual Road I'm just trying to get a feel for the concern that Steve had in terms of cars going back and forth up there yeah I don't think it's actually that close to the to the surface of the roadway um but the 13 ft just the layout okay that's the only question I have Randy I have one other question yes please D um and so just uh I want to clarify Dave you're on the site plan you've got a a dotted line uh across the front of the proposed building is that correspond to the um porch portion of the of the uh proposal yes okay so that so the actual so that's very close to the existing uh 21.6 ft or whatever that it it's the old building is that that point now so that so that what you're proposing is the wall on the first floor to essentially be in the same plane as that end that Gable end of the existing building the then you're coming up you have porch Eaves second floor yes that that is actually the portion that is that is that much that's the 13 ft from the property line and then we've got additional you know we're trying to scale it off here but neither one of us can read a scale so it looks like about maybe 10t additionally to the pavement line uh in that area so okay so that's that's into my questions regarding that I think Randy so to answer the question about the width of the pavement using the scale that's on the plan it's about 21 ft from the edge of pavement the gutter line to that front porch at its closest point 21 David you it's 21 ft David from the from the actual traveled surface of Barn Hill Lane to the to the front of the porch yeah um who else didn't ask a question anybody I think we're upet with questions yes so and let me just make sure I'm understanding what Dave each was saying and what you were answering this picture A4 the side view this is this would be this would be coming down Barn Hill Lane correct uh at the bottom yes okay y so you're saying 21 ft to the from the street to the house or to the porch to the porch right here right there yep okay I do like how that step back I think that was a good point that you made about no well she's talking from the D from the traveled surface as opposed to the road layout is the additional square footage so it's 13 ft from the road layout out to here 21 ft from the actual asphalt of the road to here and then this is 21 ft set back and then this is the garage which is 29 ft set back okay so where's the 8 feet where that were who eight oh oh that's feet closer it's 8 feet closer that's what it is what it is now okay all right so um I just wanted to Circle back to that image that this would be as you're going down Barnhill you would see um it I mean you have the second this is I think what Dave V was saying you have the Second Story That's meeting that increase but and the porch but there's an openness there and then it goes to the house and then there's another setback that is the garage that's correct yeah okay all right thank you so I I hate to um belabor this Phil issue but I still don't you said during your presentation we can't put any more fill and so I guess I'll just ask you why um one of the challenges of filling is the the stability of the slope not going towards the South to the back of the lot but the side slopes to the neighbors so we have to leave a little bit of room at the toe of each of those slope so that storm water won't be directed onto the neighbor so we need to collect it along the property line and send it to the back so we we could fill more we could go to two to one slope um and probably gain maybe a foot in height but we'd have a two to one slope that went right to the proping lines and no way to manage runoff well that's important so it's like a physics question and the other issue is this is the retaining wall can only be 3 feet in height uh if it's going to be on the property line so that restricts how much you can fill and still be held back by that wall yeah and the also have you thought about asking us for a variance given I mean it's not a not I mean we allow variances we do especially when you meet the criteria so well you know I think Kevin probably going to kill me because I said oh there's no way we're going to get a variance why why why though why why wouldn't you I guess past experience no no no no would be sorry I don't mean to be sarcastic but I mean I would argue that this lot certainly meets the criteria for variant now whether or not the hardship piece we'd get there um well you can't build a bigger house on it unless you get closer to the street so that's a hard J right there and then you're going to remain a TW bedroom house and it's so much bigger it seems like a lot of work for the same amount of bedrooms I can't help but well I mean you have a there's a bonus room which can act there additional space and stuff like that not according to the health agent well no I know there the doorway but there's there's certainly more living area for that so um they think it's you know again it's enough space for what they need with the family even though it is the two bedrooms but yeah yeah so I mean we'd be happy to look at a variance I just uh I mean if you if we do a STW vote you might want to do that depends I don't know how people are going to vote I I did say earlier this in the last 10 years this is the most topographically challenging lot we heard you you would know if anyone knows about to topography it would be you sir so um you're right let's see Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations seconds and votes yes yes J Paul and I vote Yes as well all right deliberations Paul well I uh I think that the uh the concept of bringing the house up uh and still having it be um about the same level as the remaining um houses on the road um is significant and it makes it much more attractive uh than it would be otherwise um and I think that the fact that you have uh 21 ft between paved portion of the road and uh the extent of the housing development is significant enough that uh for me at least on Barn Hill Road where you're going down there I don't see that as a problem uh frankly and I think that uh given that overall and the site that you're working with um I think it's it's a it's a substantial uh change to the neighborhood but it's not substantially detrimental uh and I think it is a good project okay Lee I agree with Paul um this is a very challenging site and I think that the way the house is designed the way it's staggered the way um it's just a small portion of it that's actually the 13 ft from the pavement um it's just a small portion of the house everything else is in the front open porch is going to be very attractive and it's going to help with the appearance that it's right on the street I don't think it's going to feel like it's right on the street um I I'm not voting today but if I were I would be in favor of this I think it's a great Improvement um once again that I wouldn't want to live in a house that was set way down either so yeah that' be me Dave be deliberations yes well I um you know when I first was looking at the uh um the application and looking at that 13 ft um you know as opposed to the 21 or whatever is there I wow I wonder why I think they've done a very good job of explaining why um and and I and I'm trust I do trust in this case that um they've looked at this probably every way sideways upside down inside out and weighed all of the the different consequences of perhaps trying to increase the fill or you know keeping the garage low so you got to drive down the driveway and turn in and and all the various reasons they've given why they might not want to do that and um so I and essentially in the short version is I'm in agree I agree with Paul I think that we um you know we we're and we're getting a little confused and and and the 13 ft as it turns out is to the property line this is true but that's to the road layout so to the pavement we got to add another 8 to 10 feet so it's it's still sign I find in this and for that kind for Barnhill Lane um and and in in bring it being able to have it get it up so the first floor is not so far below and given the the actual physical setting of the distances and then the porch and the and the way it will all look I think it's a trade-off that that I think they found a good solution and I don't think that that that is substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood I I and and um I think they've done a good job and and the alternatives to me is um yeah there may be some ways that we could find but boy I I think they've struck a pretty good balance and I'll support it so on the positive side um there have been several Renovations and additions as you pointed out on your summary Jamie very helpful um 12 out of 27 uh you know not including your property so that that's like 44% that's that's a healthy amount of activity on that street and um I you know support that of course um and another positive is the gross floor area that also is very much in line with the neighborhood you know using those numbers as a proxy for size um we have six homes on Barnhill Lane that are larger or nearly equivalent nearly equal um out of 15 so that's a great you know that's 40% um and then on the other property chat chathill Chatfield um 11 out of 27 homes so so it's very much size-wise based on Gross floor area um in line on the negative side the height which has been explained and you've done a great job but you are still 7 feet taller than your neighbor on 36 and 6 and A2 F feet taller and on 56 so so I I'm just questioning the height um and then the increase in the non-conformity to the road that's where I'm struggling but I too you know am supportive of wanting to make those improvements I I totally get it and I I would want to um I would want to support it but though my concerns are the the a little bit um of the height and then the height coupled with the proximity to the to the street so just saying that I'm still deliberating okay okay Ed if you a voting um so I I prefer when there's a non-conformity like uh to the street right now that you go the other way on the non-conformity not um not increase in non-conformity dramatically um I think it would U make it one of the closest houses to the street and um I have to say when I was out there I was uh couldn't really understand why you you were moving it that close to the street and I i' again I'd prefer to go the other way but I I I grasp your argument um this house uh probably you you know needs to go that close to the house to be built could you build a different house perhaps but um if I was Voting uh you know it's it's sort of a toss up here but I I think um I think you've done a good job and I I probably would um vote in the affirmative Dave Nixon deliberations well Steve used the word looming when he was describing the closeness of the proposed structure to the road and when you look at the Southwest elevation side you see exactly what he's talking about that this accentuates the height aspect that Jenny was talking about and also bringing that whole Second Story second floor that much closer to to the road so even though you have some room on the porch down underneath I say that but for me the visual is the looming of that second story and the closeness of it to the road and the extra height that I just think would be uh detrimental and in a major way to the neighborhood I don't see driving up and down that street anything that's as close to of the street I don't see anything that's this high and I don't see anything that has this aspect of coming close to it coming coming after you so the way it stands I would not support it um I would really like to see a redesign of the front of the house I mean I understand why you can't go back okay but I I would urge you if that's what happens to see if you can't redesign the front of the house thank you thank you so I noticed the word looming as well but I also noticed the word tradeoff that they've each uh noted and I I I was persuaded by Paul but at the same time I don't I'm not a big fan of increasing non-conformities especially when it's the street and um even more importantly when it's the Neighbors which this isn't um but I kind of fall in that I know we're not necessarily supposed to um comment that much about the design but I do think that front design uh contributes negatively to something getting closer to the street so I I too would like to see you come back with a different design or variants so today I'm leaning towards no uh Jenny do you want to talk say what You' do because uh that might be helpful okay um yeah well that's I like I said said but those are my two my two negatives were the height and the and the road the increase the road and I I I was I'm still deliberating but but I I do lean towards more what Mr Nixon and I think Randy were saying so I I would probably I I want to support it but I would rather see maybe a redesign of a of a smaller scale okay what would you like to do Mr no um we would like to withdraw without prejudice please okay um Paul I will move to Grant the requested withdrawal without prejudice dve seconds and votes yes yes yes yes as do I thank you very much thank you all right we are now going to take a five minute break and we'll see you on the other side e e e e e e e e e e e e e we are back all right so we're going to go to 107 Highland and again this is the zoning board of appeals meeting on 613 2024 continued application number 24- 059 Highland realy trust care of George Riley 63 Brook Trail Road Brewster Mass 02631 owner of property located at 107 Highland Avenue also shown on the town of chadam assessors map 15E block 55 L 48 the applicant proposes to change alter or expand a non-conforming dwelling and a non-conforming lot via the demo of the existing dwelling and the construction of a new dwelling the proposed dwelling will conform to Road and ab butter setback requirements however it will remain non-conforming as it is and will not be 100% larger than the guest house the existing building coverage is 2,558 ft and the proposed building coverage is 264 ft where 2900 ft² is the maximum allowed the law is non-conforming and that it contains a dwelling in a guest house where only a dwelling would be allowed and contains 99.9 ft of Frontage where 100 ft is required the lot contains 24, 49 ft² in our20 zoning District a special permit is required under masterer Law chapter 48 section 6 and section 5B of the protective bylaw George Riley welcome thank you um I'm representing the Highland trust uh at 107 uh Highland Avenue uh oh well there we are um the uh the existing house that they wish to demolish is built in 1920 and um the engineering survey said that the foundation was uh inadequate and failing and the uh framing was uh completely inadequate and they felt it was uh coste effective to go for a new uh a new building and they're proposing a um a similar square footage size building if you could go back to the to the site plan there thank you uh and uh the proposed building will meet all bulk regulations setbacks height uh building coverage uh Etc the only um uh unusual thing about it slightly is that if I can get this to work am I getting it ah there we go here's here's the see the light outline is the existing house and the new house is moved to the right closer to this property line in this house here and uh we're proposing to raise the foundation height from the original house about about 2 feet and the reason for that is that they would like to get a um an underground uh or Drive-In uh garage coming in coming in here and so if we raise the house up we can uh uh get that with little trouble the the grade changes really slight because it really matches this this goes downhill here so this grades would look perfectly normal and it would allow for this uh Terrace retaining wall to slope down and plant in here because when we take this house down and move this house here the garage becomes much more exposed to the street and then by doing this we can then make it look natural and fit in so if you if you go back to the uh I guess the sketch so you can see now normally the hous is existing is down at this grade but we're breaking it up to this grade and making it similar to this house here so then it would slope down and then you could plant this and you wouldn't see the garage in the back so that's the point of making that work so to make this house compatible we've taken the if you go there there a picture there showing the current house and the proposed house we have it somewhere keep going I don't know it should be there maybe it's not ah try that one now go down that's the existing house and that's the proposed so we're trying to make it as compatible as as possible with the two by ating that covered entryway and uh and making the house architecturally compatible with the the neighbor house so that's a that's it really so U if you have questions okay would you like to go through some of the criteria um you a copy of that yes the ones that are applicable only the ones that are do um so um adequacy of sight uh there'll be little change in building coverage uh from the existing coverage number of bedrooms uh and no real change in uh in um conforming to the setback regulations um the compatibility of the size the size of the structure is actually less massive than the existing one so I think that that certainly is comparable extend of the proposed increase from non-conforming nature of the structure of use there's no uh change uh suit ility of the site including impact of neighboring properties well we feel that there'll be actually I think there'll probably be an improvement for the neighboring properties really because to get rid of the somewhat decrepit building uh impact of scale sighting and Mass on neighborhood visual character it's really even less impactful than the existing um sewage disposal uh We've designed a uh a new sewage system that uh is acceptable to the Board of Health and uh traffic flow no change noise no change adequacy of utilities no change visual impact on the neighborhood uh I think it will be minimal okay I think that's it okay thank you is there anybody here are on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application if so please raise your hand seeing none I will read the two correspondents one's from the health agent and one's from the historical commission uh first uh from Christina baset on June 133 2024 the CHC the chadam historical commission found that the home on 107 Highland AV is historically significant and imposed a 12month demolition delay which expires on November 23rd 2024 then we have a note from our zoning from our uh Health agent Judith Georgio I from 611 2024 I've reviewed the proposed plan for this property the plan to demo and rebuild the main dwelling does not appear to add sewer flow to the property the septic system was designed and approved for a 3bedroom main house and a two-bedroom guest house I have no concerns is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wish to speak against this application or has a specific question if so please raise your hand seeing none questions from the board um Ed um I I guess could you give me a little brief history of of this project um of the project yes okay well I don't know brief originally uh the U the owners of this property own the abing properties on either side and they uh originally wanted to subdivide the middle property into two and add and add those sections that they subdivided to the abing lot so that there would have been two lots rather than uh three lots and that the back part of the lot would go to the house at 99 and the front part of the lot would go to the house at 1119 and so they came before the board and boy couldn't find a way to create a non-conforming lot which is essentially what it would have done so they've gone back to the drawing board here and decided to try and make it work for them at the best way by meeting the current zoning regulations and that's pretty much how this has come about so we went to the historical commission they found it was a historical and opposed delay and and because we went to the zoning board to get approval for the lot that zoning that delay um expired and so we went back to them again so it's it's been quite a long Hall getting this to work thank you yeah Dave Nixon questions no questions Dave each questions no questions uh Jenny no questions Steve um what is the uh the exterior finish the shingles okay because I was wondering if it was just regular normal cedar shingles okay all righty thank you that's it no questions and Paul maybe I'm U I'm answering my own question here but uh I see you've got a two-car garage underneath the structure right uh theoretically you have a garage in the back property yeah and why do we need so many garages that's the question well the property the piece of the the property to the right is not really a garage is it no no no the propert the property to the right which they want to have this is sort of maybe a place where they can park doesn't have a garage the garage in the back the son of the daughter on the right has come and deared that for storage of his antique or special cars so they can't use that as a garage and then the other garage and they it's been taken up by um Mrs jaran's painting uh um you know studio so in the end for all these garages they really don't have any place to put their car [Laughter] that's pretty much it well and and the the building to the rear of this property is actually residence right uh no there's a there's a guest house above and a garage Below in the rear but not a guest house that satisfies our requirements in in town zoning well it doesn't that's why we came for the special permit because the lot is not big enough to support a a guest house it was pre-existing and we got a special permit to go before you to remodel that garage I think it's in the filing here somewhere do you do you see any other garages uh under uh houses on uh Highland uh I don't think so but I be honest with you I have not really looked for that okay I have no other questions okay I don't have any questions so Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations Dave V seconds and votes yes yes yes yes and I vote Yes as well okay deliberations um Steve um well I guess the first thing that comes to mind is that there's still is there still a uh demolition delay imposed on this house until November yes yes yes so you can't do anything till November that's right anyway no okay this the second thing that that I kind of I I can't get through to my my head is that the building in the back is done and it looks like it's livable and it's being uh advertised as a guest house without the primary house being done so you might end up with a guest house and no primary house well you know if we or a garage and no primary house well that's the whole point of not taking it down to me this project was done sort of in reverse order yes sort of got things the the court in front of the horse in a way okay I I you know we nothing can be done until November anyway I don't think but it's a you know it's a fine looking house but I think the process was not followed very well yeah when let s it it's complicated it's it's actually very complicated um so let me just show you real quick they came in 2020 to redo the existing guest house at that time in 2020 the main house as it is exists today is much larger it has a full basement first floor and second floor so in our guest law Prov or Guest House provision the bylaw States the guest house can be no larger than 50% the size of the main house this main house now has three floors it's going to a garage level and basically a ranch living level so it won't have a second floor so it now is smaller than the almost yeah they're roughly the same size I believe now building coverage but floor are is probably less yeah right so that's they had specially permitted to do the guest house in 2020 um and now that they've chosen to make the the existing main house smaller it's just an intensification of the non-conformity okay all right thank you okay um questions Lee did you have any questions no I don't have any questions sorry well you already ask your question do we already ask over here no yes already no all right any questions over here no all right neither do I Paul move to close the hearing and move into deliberations uh dve seconds and votes yes yes yes and yes as do I okay now deliberations Steve back to you he's still scratching his hand if you were voting which you're not if I were voting I mean I you know it's uh that what's there now can't remain so I guess it it it it needs to be uh refurbished or rebuilt um so I guess I would be you know it's and it's a fine looking house that you're going to uh put there um so I guess our hands are kind of tied in that you know we can't live with what's there now so I don't know if we have any other options so but it's it's a it's a fine looking house I would vote to uh to approve it if I were were voting all right Jenny deliberations the uh proposed house is um an an attractive uh image U rendering of the existing house lower lower height which we really rarely ever see that if ever um it's meeting the road and ab butter setbacks building coverage 46 square feet nominal right change um and I think it meets all our criteria so um I would support it Lee yeah I agree with my colleagues um I appreciate moving the house back from the street I appreciate the lowered height I know the owners of the properties had something else in mind once upon a time and I appreciate them appreciate them working out a solution that that fits nicely and Dave deliberations yeah I I agree with previous uh it's not uh um um I think it's an improvement over the situations that exists on the ground right now anyway and um and and I don't think that the that there be being a shuffling of the percentage of the guest house versus the main house is a substantial detriment to the neighborhood or to the town uh so uh I I think it meets our criteria I'll support it and EDG um yeah I mean it it took me a while to get my sort of hands around what was going on here but thank you for the explanation it's a it's a a modest increase in the uh the coverage and uh uh I I would support the projects and Dave Nixon yeah I'm offer lots of garages so this is this is no matter what they use for but um you know the thing I like best about your plan frankly is beside pushing it bad I mean right now it looks like a big gigantic parking lot so by putting in um vegetation all that from the street to the left I think is a great idea you know and uh it's going going to be uh so much better than what it is now yeah and I bet you the um con the um historic will like your new rendering too because I think you purpose and when you look at the purpose and intent of the bylaw you really are um preserving the natural architectural historic asset of the community with that kind of rendering we don't always see that and I think that's an important Street and I like the project right um Paul well I uh uh I frankly take a different view of it uh I I think that the uh the house as now proposed uh is not consistent with what is existing on an highland um when you approach this uh property from um uh going towards the golf course it seems to me that uh the garage under is totally inconsistent with any of the other houses on Highland um and um I don't think it's necessary with respect to the property itself um I understand the way they're using the property they may like to do it that way but I don't think it's consistent with the neighborhood and um I think the look of the house as you look at it from the front um with the large roof above um and uh given the elevations that are involved uh does not uh contribute to the overall neighborhood feel which I think is important with respect to this historic area so my view would be that it is it is substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood I apologize for going before you um but uh that's all right so now would you like to close I mean uh move all right I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberation I mean I'm sorry move for the vote conditions all right I'll move to approve the application as submitted with presumably the board wants some conditions yeah I think uh Highland have I mean I don't know what I I'm trying to remember with the conditions we put on across the street uh kitty corner across the street but I I would um 86 maybe 96 somewhere in there 86 80 I can't remember there one most recently on Highland that we uh looked at it's a four square that that they were adding on to we did that and we also gave another one of continuance 86 Highland had um the all condition condition one to a b and c so June 30th the Labor Day so all I I would say that we should be imposing these same uh um conditions as we did in that case I agree okay so you second them and I so I second that and I vote in the affirmative okay I vote Yes Jenny yes and no and I'm going to vote Yes um so congratulations thank you very much okay next up we have chadam dog club and Ed is going to be voting for me on this one um G to still run the meeting but I'm not going to vote on this one Mr Norcross welcome good afternoon just wait till we get that R the oh sure sorry and jumping the gun application number 24- 045 the chattam dog Club care of James amnor cross Esquire PE 707 chattam Mass 02633 L see of properties located at 82 and 102 Meeting House Road also shown in the town of chadam assessors map 4E block 25e lot a and map 4E block 15 lot 0 the applicant proposes to incorporate an overnight kennel use to the existing personal and household Services dog care and Training Facility with retail component which requires the grant of a special permit the lot contains 42827 square fet and an industrial zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General Law chapter 48 section 9 and 8 d2b and appendix one of the protective bylaw this was continued from May 9th 2024 Mr Norcross good afternoon uh Jamie Norcross representing the chadam dog Club an Corgan in the blue is here with me today as well as she is the owner of the chadam Dog Club we were here just about a month ago um and at that meeting uh a neighbor uh came up and spoke um about concerns relative to noise and past incidents with noise and so it was suggested at that time that uh Records request would be made to the chat Police Department uh Mr Nixon also asked to have Bob Stell attend today uh as the property owner as his name was referenced by the neighbor as um during her um during the time that she spoke as well so uh Chief Anderson uh from the chadam police has submitted an email to you uh along with copies of reports um and he references that um let's see not find many complaints regarding any barking dogs at 82 media House Road which is our property there was one complaint where no violations were observed or overheard which was back in 2020 so a complaint was made back in 2020 uh the police department went out and found that there was no issues with noise um I also spoke with the uh animal control officer and she uh had a l l fairly lengthy conversation with her and she thinks the uh facility is very well-run she has no concerns relative to noise she did mention there's no report in here that was sent she did mention mentioned there was a complaint when the facility was first opened back in 2016 and she spent a significant amount of time at that time ensuring and and reviewing the property they come out they sit for a period of time different times of the day over the course of a number of days and found that there were no issues relative to noise um Mr cell as I mentioned is here he's happy to speak or answer any questions if you have any from him um there also are a number of letters that were sent in from customers of the chadam Dog Club um that talk about the uh mannerisms the characteristics of the dogs the noise levels The Barking any fighting that they've witnessed which they indicate they see none um I'd also point out uh and this was mentioned by the dog officer to me as well is that um an screens the dogs before they come into her facility and join um the chadam dog Club so it's not just you show up you fill out of form you get the dog to become part of the daycare um there's a screening process so Ann can ensure that the mannerisms and the dog will be appropriate and the behavior Al aspects of the dog is fit for her facility because she wants to keep the dogs calm she doesn't want noise she wants to um again continue to run a very um smooth and efficient operation that's enjoyed by a lot of customers um so that would be our presentation relative to to the noise again Mr stell's here if you have any questions for him we would like to hear from Mr Stell and then we'll Mr Stell if you would this is your property correct you're the owner okay just state your name if you if you would y I'm Robert S the owner of the property um I can say from the very beginning um I have a lot of people that rent and use that property and um it is an industrial property but um I really try to keep my property up nice and I try to be a good neighbor um and I also want to stress that the dog club's on one side I got a rental on the right side of it and just a little bit back there's another person renting and there's another one behind that I've had um I've talked to people and I've expressed the some people that I could bring in probably six seven people in here right now if You' like to hear them that they actually live there I'm there a lot more than my wife like me to be there but um I'm there many nights 7 I was there at 7:30 the other night and um and there was backing and I went down the road and I st on the opposite side of the street there was nobody at the dog club uh and I've continually have that problem being on the other side and even one of the Neighbors on that side literally told me one time they complained I said well I left this place at 8:00 at night and it was backing all over and there's nobody a dog club and it's coming from your side of the street and what I got for reply was that's my neighbor's dogs they're always backing well I can't control that as far as some of the complaints and noises and stuff there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind that Industrial Park I try to set myself a little bit separate from that I um I do but there's um I don't control there people that speed the cars in there there's delivery trucks there's a lot of noise um we are amazed that Ian does such a good job to be honest with you she has that many dogs there with that much commotion you know dogs out when a truck goes by or whatever I mean I've been in there and I mean I I I wish I taught school for a long time I had that kind of control to be honest with you um I've had neighbors that come up to me not neighbors and I've had um people that come up and said I'm really glad you're renting to her that there's really a need for it that um you know we have emergencies we wish we could do something else is why she's trying to do what she's doing now um I don't really need the hassle far as the property goes I think um the lot of for Neighbors I mean you know it's a busy road and whatever um I even offered one time if you got a problem come see me I could put four buildings across there I get four lots that are sitting there but and I've had people who wanted to buy it I wouldn't sell it unless I know someone's going to be a good neighbor um it affects me as well as everybody that's renting there and my feeling the people that are there now you know they don't need someone else to come in and cause a problem so I'd like to think that we do care I also tell you that at one time when I initially I haven't heard anything in two years better it's been at least two years um I spent quite a few few thousand and I put Cyprus you know Leland Cyprus right across the whole um area there because um I was told that might help any sound or whatever and truthfully I feel it was a waste of money because you still get complaints and there's no sound as far as the police goes and the anal they were there I mean incessantly for three or four weeks they were there all the time when there was a some plan complaining going on they were there mornings nights I used to be there probably 6:00 in the morning many times I leave 7 8 at night and all the time the police are there I even stop a couple times and literally one of the policeman says a waste of our time what are we doing here they in three four weeks there was no nothing going on the animal resc person was there off and on they're down there all the time so be honest with you I don't know where this is all coming from but I feel like um it really isn't warranted as far as being a problem I mean there's so much noise on that road it's unbelie able but I don't know why the dogs AR barking at that and they're not okay well thank you and I'll answer any other questions you have no okay thank you um so at this point I think in the in the hearing we're going to say is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor of this application um and I just want to give you the caveat that if you already have a letter please let me know and then you get to pick whether you want to talk or you want me to read the letter so um so I just going to finish the sentence if there's anybody here raise their hand are on Microsoft teams to speak in favor so I see you sir do you have a letter I do not okay head up uh so I lived at the house at 102 from February to if you could I know if you could just state your name oh my name is Chris Rea yeah um so I rented the house from Rob at uh 102 from February 2017 until December 2023 so just shy of 7 years um in that time you know at especially at night you know I'm not I work full time I always have so I'm not there during the day but at night to say that if I ever heard a dog barking very similar to what Rob said you know I would go outside to see where is this always across the street um there's a couple times where you know being home I would see even a dog in the street um which I didn't want it to make wanted to make sure it wasn't the next door it would always run back down that way as well uh um my another you know kind of thought of mind is that if we're not allowed to overnight dogs here at the chadam dog Club those dogs are going to be somewhere uh unattended so if we are able to have them where they're monitored and attended it's going to be you know limiting noise for everywhere else as well both chattam in neighboring towns okay so so you're basically saying you didn't notice any problems when yeah no never any problems even then you know starting Co my wife she was you know switched over to working fully remote so she was there during the day too um never any complaints or even comments on Doug barking during the day as well all right well thank you very much thank you all right is there anybody else here on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application yes ma'am if you could do you have a do you have a letter that you've sent no okay then please go ahead I'll be I'll be great yep when you get up there you can start talking okay and just state your name my name is Susan lur I'm a resident of chadam and my dog has been going to the chadam dog club for years and years and years and I just want to say that when I go there dogs are not barking because they have this wonderful care there and they are engaged and I have to admit that my dog barks at home but she does not bark at the chadam dog Club because she's well cared for and they and they just have dogs there that are very com they are wonderful uh with dogs and they accept dogs there that get along together thank you that's I just want to support thank you for coming anybody else here or Microsoft teams that wish speak in favor of this application going once no nobody else okay I am now going to read correspondence um there's going to be some correspondents that are from people that do not live in the town of chadam I'll name who they are and and indicate that they have written in favor um Council you already read the uh letter from the police so I'm going to leave that out if you would be you would uh consent to that um then we have a letter from uh Dary sequin um she does live in chadam it does not State her address um but she says she's in full support of granting a special permit for overnight boarding at 82 and 102 Meeting House Road for the owner of chadam dog Club Ian Corgan oh I live on Morton Road which is also almost opposite of the Dog Daycare heading east and my family owns a warehouse in Commerce Park I've never heard of dog dogs backing as the property is well controlled I believe Ian Corgan is a very responsible owner and dog trainer and would not allow the nuisance boing to occur anytime day or night and that came to us uh on June 12 2024 next we have a note from Peg Moss 8 cutter Road West chadam who writes I am in support of the chadam Dog Club being allowed overnight boarding my dog has attended chadam Dog Club 5 days a week for 10 years and was with in Corgan prior to the opening of the location on meeting house she has never been in a fight had any injury or contracted any illness while attending daycare and screens all the dogs and does not accept a aggressive dogs Ann and her staff engag the dogs in supervised activities throughout the day keeping them occupied a staff member is always with the dogs there is no free for-all just a just good play they have an uncanny way of getting 40 dogs to nap and 12: to 2 the club is silent I am sure night time would be the same I know some may worry about noise and baring but that isn't allowed I have experienced a few dogs running up to the fence boing within 60 seconds the staff has them coralled and inside as a matter of fact Ian has helped me with my dog's boing problems she is a kind effective trainer all the dogs seem to know the drill and they all love the staff this is a testimony to the work Ian and her staff put into establishing a routine I am sure overnight would be the same the Moto a tired dog is a good happy dog works and that was received on 12 I mean uh June 12th 2024 next we have a letter from Barbara Matson um and she writes on May 27th 2024 regarding the chadam dog club I'm writing to express my arent support for this wonderful Organization for those who work it is a godsent to have such competent and caring people available to help with our pets and Corgan interviews dogs and owners prior to granting membership making sure that as best she can that all will be suitable for group interaction I've witnessed her silence a room full of exited dogs with a motion of her hand and soft words not only is she rather an amazing dog whisperer but her staff appears to also simil imbued my dog tedric while habitually unruly on walks with me inexplicitly behaves under their opes now I am retired he attends only three days a week but looks forward to the day those days for the sociability he enjoys at the hands and Paws of the chadam dog people and pets if only a dog could dogs could board overnight at this wonderful facility when you think of anxiety dog owners experience when situations such as health issues require brief absences from their homes I hope you will favorably consider granting this request overnight accommodation will fill in need in our community and if history and reputation are indicators as I believe they are chadam dog Club is conscientious candidate for providing this service as 10 plus years patron of Ian and her crew I hardly endorse approval of the application and that came on June 3rd 2024 next we have a note from June 5th 2024 from Fran ellingham my dog Cali has been a member of chadam dog club for five years she goes to daycare three days a week it was I was apprehensive at first about bringing her somewhere without me but the level of care she receives from the team is outstanding Kelly had to go through an introduction process as other members do to ensure each dog is friendly and will flourish in a setting like this it is so important for a dog's wellbeing not to stay physically not only to stay Physically Active but mentally active as well the dogs at chadam Dog Club receive top-notch care exercise enrichment and stimulation the chadam dog Club is more like a family where we celebrate each dog's birthday and holidays in fun ways and our staff are amazing and I trust them unconditionally with C the dogs are treated as their own not just as customers I urge you to approve their request to have overnight accommodations for their clients next we have a note from Tim Bailey and Katie McDon McConnell from 778 Riverview Drive and they write my wife Katie and I have reviewed the plans for the proposed overnight facility for dogs at Meeting House Road under the ownership of an Corgan of the chadam Dog Club we have been customers for several years and can affirm their outstanding professionalism dedication um of fostering A Harmon onious environment for dogs and's meticulous approach involves conducting thorough Behavior Analysis for all dogs before allowing them to join an interact with existing customers she displays no hesitation in refusing potential clients if their dog's Behavior threatens to disrupt the club secure and harmonious atmosphere with an impressive background in show dog activities including both judging and training a KC Champions and possesses a comprehensive understanding of proper dog obedience and behavior we en the overnight facility as a natural extension of the chadam dog club's already pristine and secure environment in our opinion the overnight facility in question does not pose any detriment of any kind in fact we find overnight facility to be consistent with the use in that neighborhood and we pledge our full support um for the above project next we have a note from Pat long 697 Main Street in chadam received on June 6 2024 I'm writing in support of the chadam Dog Club and their request for overnight accommodation their organization has been a godsend to us once we took on an Australian Shepherd who requires much exercise and attention while we worked we knew that the dog was well cared for while we had home construction the dog was able to be cared for outside the chaotic construction noise and commotion we look forward to a well-needed overnight care um in the future for the town the club is very well structured organiz and organized they care y choose the dogs they allow on the premises I've never seen disruption in process or any dog out of control their care and concern is of the highest standard I'd be happy to answer questions the board may have and she gives her phone number and that was received on June 10th 2024 next we have a note from Gloria Hicks who's here are you going to speak against would you mind if I don't read your letter then okay okay next I have a letter from Jill rker and she writes on May 2124 I'm writing support of the chattam dog club's plan to extand the business to include overnight accommodations we have we have been sending our dog finegan to the chattam dog Club since he was a puppy and cor her staff are loving experts in the care of dogs of all ages and temperaments she is the consumate professional who not only runs a successful business but she also truly p is passionate about the dogs in our care our dog is sensitive and can be nervous around of the dogs in a master dog trainer helped Finn acclimate to being surrounded by dogs she worked her magic and now he looks forward to playing with his buddies all I have to do is mention that he's going to doggy day care and he runs the car he loves spending his day at chadam Dog Club the problem for us has been finding someone like Ann and her staff who would care for Finn while we are away as beloved part of our family we want to feel that he is happy and safe when he's not with us to that end we have tried several options we are now sending him to a boarding facility 40 minutes from our home not an ideal situation I'm sure many people would agree it's a real need for overnight home for our pets in the chadam area um the added benefit to chadam Dog Club expansion is what we know from our experience in their daycare that Finn will be loved and well cared for physically and emotionally while he is with them as for the concern of the noise from boing dogs I'll tell you that when I drop him off as well as pick him up I never hear baring if I were if I were not there for fin I would not realize there were dogs inside you would not ask for a better home for our family dogs chadam Dog Club boarding facility would be a great benefit to chattam and its surrounding towns I hope you'll approve the expansion and finally we have letters from the following people who live in the following towns on the following dates Marlene clap of hoit on 66 2024 writes in favor Monica capist hoage Port 612 2024 writes in favor Robert and Catherine guthman from Brewster 612 2024 also in favor Lynn Winchester of Brewster 53024 Joan Murray South yoth 52824 Shila Fitzgerald yoth Port 52824 all right in favor that concludes the correspondence next we will see if any anybody either here or on Microsoft teams has a specific question or which is to speak against this application yes ma'am if you could go up to the microphone no one online right maybe hi Gloria Hicks I live at 95 Meeting House Road directly across the street from the chadam dog Club um and I hope you received all the documentation and reports that I gave Monday we did all we read all those reports thank you yes um and I just wanted to go through some of them um first of all um I Heard a dog barking there which I said at the last meeting for three hours or some two or three hours on a Saturday night at 11:00 um I called the owner um and she denied having a dog overnight I called Mr Stell about the same problem and he said he would speak to her um I've never heard dogs barking in Commerce park behind this building um so with that um there was um my neighbor called from 87 Meeting House Road Megan mccosar to report a noise complaint from the location above the noise is from 700 in the morning until 2: in the afternoon every day the uh Megan tried to call the owner for months and her number is blocked she just went over there um in person and the owner is having a class at this time and told her to call the police uh Megan did not um look to speak to an officer at this time but would like this complaint documented um the next one uh the owner of the chadam dog PL club called to speak with an officer about a neighbor harassing her which in fact is Megan mcoser she's looking for options to keep her off her property to stop the harass I'm not positive that you could speak for someone else especially to this degree I'm just reading a police report um those are those are police entries but they're not actually reports that I'm aware of I think they're um they're like a log of the police but they're public information true true they are so I'm just reading a report that I picked up from the police department okay thank you um may I say the reason for the harassment was because Megan mccla was going over there well I think we need to stick to all right I'll just read the reports um mosar was served in hand with a trespass not not that kind of thing though because we don't on the report yeah yeah but but we it's not necessarily fair to chadam Dog Club that you know um that this a trespass issue because it might have been something between the two parties well it might be but it's a police report so it's public information which is why I picked these up yeah but they don't go to the chadam dog Club whether or not they should have an overnight guest over overnight but I'm trying to tell you about a history of problems with the chadam dog club and the neighbors across the street myself and the bers if you want to talk about yourself that's fair but I think but not a public police report well I'll let you continue for another moment and we'll see where it goes thank you um and officer little um arrived and had coryan sign the paperwork I then went to the mosar house and explained the notice in great detail mosar eventually stated she understood the order and would not go to the kennel the next um packet of reports are from calls that have been made by me and other people in the area about what sounds like gunshots in Commerce that we did read that P and and I read it thoroughly okay and um I don't think we can talk about gunshots in this in this hearing and not in relationship to setting off dogs my dog and other dogs in the neighbor we don't know if chadam Dog Club is making those noises by by no chadam dog Club is Not Making The Gunshot noises okay it's coming from Commerce Park right so I don't think it's relevant to this hearing then if there's gunshot noises it's not fair to this applicant okay except it sets off my dog it sets off I know but it has nothing to do with this it wouldn't set off 20 dogs in the back of the building we don't know okay um the next one is correspondence between me and my neighbor okay that would not be relevant okay even though she's afraid to speak she would have to come here and tell us that she's afraid to speak okay she was unwilling to do that because she's afraid to speak and we believe you that she yeah okay um and um all the letters from clients are lovely they don't live across the street um they drop their dogs off they leave their dogs um I've told you at the previous meeting and what I said to Mrs C about the noise um and The Barking sets off my dog it sets off the three dogs that bark incessantly next door um and I'd love to see 40 dogs nap um unfortunately the criteria does not address um I don't even know if I can I mean it's I'm going basing this on the police reports that I picked up that the behavior is hostile and um intimidating um I don't like standing here either and and talking about this no and we appreciate that you are cuz right we we understand that there's some people that won't come and talk even about like for example something that's going to happen right next door to their house that they really don't like but they still won't come so I think we get that as a zoning all right I understand I'm just reading police reports that I picked up um there is a great potential for increased barking with 20 dogs in the back of that building um I realized that people drop their dogs off they're not they don't live there I am there all the time I live there so these are the things that I reported at the last meeting and these are the the concerns that I have and and I just want to assure you that we did read all your correspondents um we just just selected what we would uh tonight um but we also understand that you live there and these people come and go and I have called personally about those gunshots at I mean am I allowed to say this that I've called myself um and it sets off my dog it it I'm concerned that it will be increased noise for the dogs for staying overnight um if if you could wrap it up because you've already gone over the the granting of this permit um is a hardship for me and as a full-time resident taxpayer I feel I deserve better and although the chatam dog Club U may have some of the met some of the criteria the special permit upon the documentation that I submitted and what I've said today I am strongly opposed to granting this permit thank you very much thank you for having the courage to come um Council would you like to rebut just briefly if I may um I think again there the reports were in there um from 2020 they were vetted by the police at that time they were priv previously vetted by the dog officer so the police department has done their diligence on this issue I understand the letters in support from the customers they come and go as Miss Hicks stated but Mr Stella was there he might not live there year round but he practically lives in his office a lot of the time so he is nearby and he also said to you that he rents a residential space to I think three other people around there Bob that are near closer to the uh chadam Dog Club I believe the Miss Hicks property and they've indicated to him they have no issues with noise with that I I that's all I have Madam chair okay so I I guess we're going to do questions from the board at this point uh Jenny questions yeah um Jamie how long has your applicant or your client been in the business I thought you said 2016 but I thought it was 2013 uh it's been at this location since 2016 it was in a prior location um an could probably tell you the dates in terms of operation and do you want to could you come up and answer just 10 year 10 years in business it's been 10 years in this location she's been in the industry for 49 years that's I just wanted to get a sense of how long I thought I thought you had said about 10 years um and um I just wanted to to uh I I know you were here before in May and I we have what your summary was but just want to reiterate since we didn't really go over it today six The Proposal was for six dogs overnight at 102 correct and about maximum of 20 dogs at 82 right sorry to interrupt s would you mind pulling up the site plan um just so everyone's aware that what address is which so 82 is the house on the north and that would be uh six dogs in that location the building uh 82 at the bottom that would have the up to 20 dogs and and then there's a staff member who is going to be living and renting the house uh and will be monitoring the dogs that are in that building and there will also be a video camera system uh multiple cameras set up inside uh 82 that is going to stream over to the house so they can be monitored overnight and I know you don't have it on here but we have it on this Locus report M 95 where Miss hick said that she lives is across the Street and sort of in between these two correct roughly yeah so do you have anything in here that approximates I mean is that like two over 200 feet 250 fet it's got to be significant distance so 95 is down yet uh I guess you're right right in the middle there right right in the middle um the road layout's probably 40 ft wide the the um the the the U 82 is got to be setep back 40t 80 ft yeah I would say 150 ft at least could I offer something could I offer some support on this so Jenny I did my Google Maps measure distance thing on some of this so um 95 uh to the um to the 82 building going from the close point of building building uh 219 ft MH uh to um 102 95 to 102 again closest points 180 ft okay thank you Dave um and then another question I have is Mr Stell you mentioned that this road is kind of an industrial Road I think I heard you I know it's close to Commerce Park which is an industrial park um is the whole Road like pretty industrial use would you say whole the whole Commerce Park is in U is industrial property I own from the uh Catholic Church boundary I owe across to the entrance I also own um the next lot to the left of the entrance so I own that whole area there are four empty lots um you know that um are undeveloped at this point but that's all in industrial area and so that that portion of the road is pretty much heavily trafficked with industrial it is currently or could be in the future for because it's all industrial Zone on that section right there okay Zone okay thank you that's all I have thank Steve questions um are there any um modifications that need to be made to the building I see on on the site plan there's a proposed fence um down at the right there would be a um a structure there for an additional uh space for uh they call it dog runs essentially yeah but there's no other modifications internally or externally that need to be done to take care of this um the normal operations I think I read some place at 7:30 to 5:30 do you know about how many tenants are there normally during the the week a regular day an average are you I talked about dogs about people the dogs yeah oh the dog I'm sorry I thought um it's up to 40 is what and I think an could you come up an if you don't mind just announce yourself please thank you hello I'm Ann cargan owner of the chadam Dog Club U we have up to 40 dogs a day at the chadam dog Club we're currently weight listed um so we have people that want to come in so very good so you're relatively busy is there any well and I think Bob said something about planning some shrubs uh a while back to try to Abate some of the noise along I guess 137 right is a way to try and address the concerns so there's a number of um Le and Cyprus can as you come up here Bob thinks it's probably around somewhere around 15 that it's planted around the front of the property there so there has been some effort made to try to minimize yeah um any noise that there might be um my I I I I guess it's not really a question but my concern is that at overnight there's going to be up to 26 dogs here six in the in the house and and 20 in the building it seems like a big responsibility for one person um can you can you give us a little feedback on on how difficult this might be for one person to one the staff member that's going to be staying in the house well the dogs are going to be tired at the end of the day we keep them really active um my clients tell me their dogs go home and they they sleep and they're exhausted the next day even so the dogs that come to the club they're not just coming there for overnight um care they're coming there for a full day of activity and then they're looking forward to rest and that's why nap time is it's really important for us because we don't want them going all day and being tired and getting cranky at the end of the day but they it is um it's a pattern that carries over at home as well so when the dogs are not at the club my clients tell me the dogs go down for nap by themselves between 12 and 1 30 so we we effectively have 40 dogs sleeping at one time um so how that's that's how I expect it's going to happen so you think it's going to be manageable for absolutely okay okay that's it thank you yeah Lee questions um has there been any thought to putting another person in the actual um kennel where the dog the 20 dogs are going to be can can you modify it so that there's a little spot for for them I suppose we could it's it's a warehouse so there's not a shower there's not you know there's not a kitchen um could I modify it I have looked at all the day the dog kennels on Cape Cod and out of the 12 that I pulled up only four of them have overnight ten overnight care okay so the across the country it is it is common place to have the dogs by themselves I have cameras throughout the facility I have a staff member that's going to be on site so I think the risk is is pretty low thank you well questions I have no questions Dave Nixon question no questions um yeah I guess my question be for Mr Stell what's the construction and what's the construction of these two properties and the reason I'm asking that is uh are they insulated do they have HVAC and where where I'm really going is are they going to be open windows or open doors in if there's any you know there's there's air conditioning they're all sitting down there we have um the windows are usually always closed I think actually I don't think they're ever opened um and um and they're insulated um so the you know I just had a new U roof put on it not too long ago and um you know the heating systems all brand new so all that's been you know again you know I mean you know some people call them dogs other people call them family so I mean you know you treat them that way so so both the kennel and and the house the windows should be closed and yeah they all they both they both have air conditioning stuff yes okay thank you good D Beach questions um I have no questions yeah I I my question is um ma'am what happens if a dog gets sick or what happens if your staff member gets sick are you on call or is somebody on call to come help or sorry um I live five minutes from the chattam dog Club so I and I'm there all the time um if my staff member is sick I have a staff a staff of six so there's always somebody to cover somebody else's shift um and the staff member that will be there and mean she's going to of course have days off that other staff members are going to be able to I meant like if she gets sick at night you know and something happens to her will she be able to call somebody or will somebody she can call me yeah okay and what about if a dog gets sick what happens how does that work well generally if the dog is sick we're going to notice it during the day um so if the dog gets sick sick overnight what type of sick are you I don't know what you're expecting vomiting or seizures or whatever somebody would be able to cover and then take the dog to the Ved if need be or something like that yes okay um okay I don't have any other questions um Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations Dave V seconds and vote Yes yes yes yes and yes very good very good okay deliberations Ed we'll start with you um well I I was out at the site and um the owner seems to have U total control out there um I was sitting in the parking lot sort of reading material and next day I know someone was out knocking on my door wondering you know what I was doing so um uh I and she did give me a tour inside and um uh I uh I feel like it's a it's a a pretty well run establishment and uh if if the windows are going to be closed and they're insulated buildings and um there's going to be someone who uh can monitor the dogs I think uh I'm I'm going to vote in the affirmative so you think it meets all the criteria I think it does okay um Dave Beach yeah [Music] um well I think that um I I mean I stepped back a little bit from this uh first of all I guess I I want to say that I didn't see in any of the materials that were furnished to us I I didn't see any substantiated um violations of the Town noise bylaw um there were police reports and things but they when one of them that was a a noise complaint um the officer um sat for a while and didn't hear anything um and um the letter from the chief uh indicated that there were no complaints uh um relative to the Saturday night parking or whatever so you know and I'm and so I'm looking at and I look at the map and I see well you know we have two industrial zones in chadam and this is one of them this is the primary one probably and for whatever reason um it it well it fronts on a a state highway but perhaps somewhat unfortunately in terms of zoning the other side of the highway is r60 but you know two-thirds of the town meeting created that situation and felt that um at least I would assume felt that uh the the importance of the of an industrial Zone to the town I don't think anybody's going to argue with that we we need those kinds of places and and spaces and we have it noise bylaw in in effect that there haven't been any um you know um violations found in in any of the reports that we've seen um and um you know I I and and I think and unfortunately I don't know I it's it you know what I've heard and and what I've and I've heard with um the neighbor uh earlier and then in the previous meeting when I watched the tape uh she indicated um a problem with dogs at 105 barking or her dog barking or you know neighborhood dogs barking and not and and nothing substantiating that this is is is a problem of the that the dog Club is creating or participating in so I don't I I don't feel and the other thing that's interesting looking at the zoning bylaw is that uh a kennel is um one of the few non I mean well non-residential use for humans uh um uses that our bylaw specifically allows in the residential zones not just the industrial zone so to me that says that it you know the bylaw kind of holds K in a special place in many respects I mean you know it needs a special permit so it needs our determination that it's not going to be substantially uh more detrimental to the neighborhood or whatever sub of substantial I just don't feel I feel I think this is kind of one of those situations where for for whatever reason just like just like with um neighborhood views and Vistas there may be some things that where a particular neighbor has had a problem or has problems but to me that's not that doesn't rise to the level of saying that that we shouldn't allow this use in the industrial Zone especially when it's been demonstrated or or by a number of letters that that the owner is competent capable knows what she's doing and is running a good business there's a need for it um I'm I'm totally in favor of it okay Dave nion well I'm most impressed uh that Mr Stell uh the landlord who's been here all his life and owns a bunch of other properties as he mentioned to us including residences that he's 100% behind this and if anybody would have a problem uh financially affecting has ability to rent other things and N that he would have torpedoed this a long ago so I really think that is the driving force behind me and if we look at um the criteria um adequacy of the site absolutely you know I mean consider what it is the size of this suitability of the size for the pro proposed use I mean commercial industrial impact on traffic SE safety none of that impact on neighborhood visual character no it is what it is the neighborhood is industrial and so whether you had a this or not sew disposal you know utilities noise and litter is the only one that we've heard something about but I'm convinced that it's under control and it's never going to be perfect but dogs aren right so neither way so uh I can't see that we have a reason to turn this down and from what I understand there's a great need in this town for this thank you very much uh Jenny deliberations yeah I I focused on the specific criteria also um in particular two suitability of site for for the proposed use I watched the planning board hearing which was months ago and they talked a lot about that and they talked about traffic and accessible handicapped accessible parking and a lot of those kind of logistics um and they were comfortable um and we've talked about that today here too the suitability of the site um criteria five adequacy of method of sewage disposal for the for the dogs um they talked about that at the planning board hearing and they were satisfied there um noise and litter we've talked about that today and um actually last time and then in particular criteria 8 the compatibility of the proposed use with the surrounding land uses the industrial Zone it it is and it is unfortunate that the other side of the street as Mr V points out is um our 60 and residential but the side that has the proposed business and and operating business for over 10 years is in an industrial Zone um and it there is a need for this and um I actually applaud the expanded business um side of it so um I would be in support of it yeah thank you Steve well I I think there there have been measures taken to try to um minimize the amount of noise coming from this place and apparently there isn't a lot of noise because you know the the the tenants aren't complaining who uh who live uh on Mr stell's property and Mr Stell is not complaining um you know and some of the noise that that might be going on might be generated by these gunshots so that but the I don't think that unless the dogs are going out and having target practice at night the the the the the the the door canel is not creating the the noise it's coming from Commerce Park and and one of the police reports even said it could be coming from Depot Street in in in U in Harwich so I think that the the owner or the the landlord has done um you know what they can to minimize or eliminate any kind of noise coming from this establishment and um I wouldn't have a problem in approving it okay thank you Lee well I I agree with all my colleagues I I don't need to keep reiterating everything um except to say that I am always in support of businesses in chadam and obviously there's a need for this and it sounds like um the kennel is very well run and I I think we need to maybe take a leap of faith and hope that this works thank you and Paul uh we continued this from uh prior hearing because we wanted to get the input from uh the police department and the uh complaints that had been filed and when we look at those uh reports uh I think there's only one uh that came in that actually related to a complaint about dogs barking at the kennel and that one uh was checked out by an officer uh and he found no substantiation for it so um I think we've we've gone the route that we should go in terms of determining the appropriateness of the uh count being located where it is and investigating the complaint that's been filed uh I look at the general category U aside from the specifics that we've already talked about and in this area um special permits may be granted when it is found that the use involved will not be detrimental to the established or Future character of the neighborhood and the town and where it has been found that the use involved to be in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the bylaw I think all of the support for uh the kenel and this activity and uh in considering whether the kennel is going to be detrimental to the Future character established character of the neighborhood and town it clearly is not so um I think that uh uh the permit should be granted thank you and uh would you like to move I'll move to gr Grant the requested relief and Dave 8 seconds and votes in favor I vote oh I'm sorry going I vote in favor I vote Yes Jenny yes Paul vot yes okay it's unanimous congratulations good luck have a nice night all right whenever Sarah is ready we have uh 171 mors Island Road which just needs a little bit more time to pack it up for the summer and we'll wait for the Builder to come up application number 24- Z66 David D draer and P Patricia Q draer Car of Donald Dunham 42 White weo Road weo Avenue number 1,164 Osterville Mass 02655 owners of property located at 171 Morris Island Road also shown in the town of chadam assessors map 16i block 41 lot E71 the applicant seeks to modify special permit number 23- 083 granted on October 12th 2023 to modify condition number 2A which prohibited exterior construction between June 15th and sep September 15th the applicant is requesting to allow exterior construction to continue through July 1st 2024 the lot contains 6,440 ft where 40,000 ft² is required in the R40 zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General law CH 4 48 section 14 and section 5B of protective bylaw welcome thank you um I'm Donnie Dunham de Martin Dunham Builders and I have the property owner uh Dave draer so it's I think a few of you may have gone out to the site it's currently under construction um we're up on the second floor at this point we're trying to finish the Roof System to close it in for the summer put the windows in get the house weathered tight um we ran into some structural issues initially upon demo which caused the delay to get to this point um one caveat to our application request is the intent was actually June 28th is enough time um that would put us to the Friday before the date that was requested which is ample time to get to that point okay very good and um I could wait till questions or I could just say it now which I think I'm going to say it now didn't you have a little trouble um because no fault of your own you got a later St date you want to talk about that a little bit I appreciate that Randy yep uh so we had there was this slight hiccup with historic uh the house fell within a a date within like six months of its age so at the last second we had to file with historic so we were given a partial permit to get started which was a demo permit which allowed us to get started but then we had to stop until we saw CHC yeah okay thank you oh thank you is that your presentation yeah pretty simple yeah that's okay is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this extension or this condition change please make it known seeing nobody um I will read the two corresponden is um first one is from Chris Jacko um and that was received on June 4th 2024 Sarah support the two-e construction extension to close in home lots of delays due to weather in this winter spring uh they live on 27 clamshell Drive chrisen Sue jao um and then we have another uh note from Brendan and Heidi drll and they live uh 157 Mars Island Road um and they write on May 29th 20124 good morning we received notice that our neighbors David and Patricia draer located at 171 Mars Island Road chadam are seeking to modify special permit um as neighbors located at 157 we would like to support the request to allow exterior construction to continue through July 1st 2024 now is there anyone here our Microsoft teams that wish to speak against this condition change if so please make it known seeing no one questions from the board I'll just say are there any does anybody have any questions did you have have a question yeah go ahead just have a question um 22 and 20 the the the two uh rental units right behind you there have you have you reached out to them or do you know is that going to be rented during this time period it's a great question Ed uh we did check the rentals and we couldn't find that they even have it listed they usually use Pine Acres right Dave um but we did check the uh Blanchard's property by theuk oh by the Luke's property left and they do not have it rented during that time they're even closer than 20 to 22 okay thank you I know that didn't specifically verify but just want the you know it's not so much the owners but the renters that are going to be affected in there so agreed like to keep them happy me too yeah anybody else have a question please feel free um no okay so Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations uh daveid seconds and votes yes vote Yes to close the hearing yes okay any yes well yes as do I okay deliberations uh Paul um it seems to me this is a reasonable request and there certainly being thoughtful about how they approach it I see no reason to not Grant the request and Lee yeah yeah I agree and um I appreciate the June 28th because if there are renters coming in anywhere probably they would start that next Saturday so um I if I were voting I would I would uh support this as well yep Steve I don't have any issues I I think U I don't see any any problems with doing this okay Jenny yeah I I um was curious to know why we ended up with the 15 so I went back and watched our previous tape because normally it's June 30 um can I speak uh because we have fews that are the 15th but I noticed in today's hearing that it's been the 30th more as of late so well uh my what I found when I listened to it was um that we had sort of settled on the 15th it was sort of a compromise in our hearing because um a neighbor had asked for Memorial Day to Columbus Day that was we kind of thought that was too long and so we kind of but also it is a busy street and so I think the comment from some of the neighbors is uh that the 15th would would be better so um but I appreciate the the the glitch that you had with with historic I too had brought a little mini calendar with me I was thinking I was going to suggest the 28th because if you are if there are any renters there they would start that Saturday satday July for so I I think that what you're proposing sounds um sounds good thank you yeah no I'm I'm totally I think it's fine personally I would say well you know these things being the way they are since we've advertised the first or whatever I'm I'm happy to let them go to the first I mean you know if somebody comes in on Saturday I mean if they're that close and they get a rainy day or something then they they can get the those two more days and some Tenants come in on Saturday well two days that you know I I mean we don't keep in mind that our control over these things is is is limited and I think we do a good job with it but all over town you've got construction going on and renters moving in next to it with no idea what's going on so I really I do appreciate that this board is a cognizant of that because I think I I think that's a really good thing I support it very good Ed um yeah I you know I would support it um for the for the 28th thank you Mr Nixon what about what say you well unfortunately for you I drive by if not four times a day then it's six or eight because I live on stage down you know so I see a lot of it and that that machine you have out front you know is it orange or yellow or whatever it is you know it's waiting to grab me as I go by and wants to snap me up well since I walk down there most every weekend and when there's no one down there I want to say that of the various contractors that we deal with the builders you have to be the neatest one I mean you coil up that yeah he does he coils everything up and he hangs it up just right he cleans everything up uh I I don't know know you were brought up in a household where it was no mess I can tell that yeah so anyway appreciate that D um I'm not wild about the idea because we don't know who's rented what and you don't either but no one stepped forward and I asked a few yeah I said oh well no I I know it's okay well when is it not okay but I think that you solved that problem by the 28th okay uh I could support that and I I also think if we thought for a moment you were only trying to make your deadline then it would things would be different but I know a number of us have d by there I went by yesterday and they invited me to Up on the Roof which was they I like the attention so I didn't mind and uh hammer and they I guess your Foreman was working or somebody who said he doesn't even usually work but they're trying that hard so um and anyway I'm also not a big fan of restricting building in the first place because if you don't have to come for a special permit you don't have any particular restrictions so anyway so I'm in support of it Paul all right I'll move to approve the application with the modification that is June 28th as opposed to July 1st 2024 as the substituted condition uh Dave V second and votes yes daveon I vote Yes any I vote Yes well yes as do I congratulations good luck thank you all thank you and that appears to conclude our hearing uh let's see that's it I'll move I'll move to adjourn Dave V seconds and votes yes votes yes yes yes Steve yes Lee yes and Paul yes and what time is it Sarah 5:55 p.m. good job all right good night chadam [Music] [Music] for