##VIDEO ID:1CsBO0WVCzw## e e going here good evening yeah he's way too young to we 20 years apart like us good evening ladies and gentlemen today is Tuesday September 10th it's time to call this meeting of the CHC Conservation Commission to order my name is Carl Bishoff I'm the chair of the Conservation Commission we will be following the published and posted agenda uh this meeting is both in person and through zoom in the case of the zoom not working properly we will continue the meeting here in person only um it is also being broadcast and recorded by chumford tele media and will be available on their website and on YouTube so we will start with uh citizen concerns we have one um that we have on our agenda here so we have Mr Tom scopes of five Baldwin Road looking at some questions about the ownership of Freeman Lake Shoreline along Shore Drive David do you want to talk to this first or Mr Scopes here I thought he said he was going to be here in person um let me see probably looking for a packing spot yeah he's looking for par it doesn't look like he's here okay so maybe he forgot or decided not to come well um I I did go out there and look I can I can is that all right to talk about it just for a brief moment um uh I was out there today and um so Conservation Commission owns land right there on Shore Drive um we've actually granted an easement rate in that general area a couple years ago um the beach is right across from that area and as I understand it where he was looking to uh that picture right there where he he was looking to do fishing he's been told that that's not um open to public fishing and near as I can tell it is but um there there was a sign just prior to that that said not a public road uh Beyond this but um it is Conservation Commission land right there right across the street from that I think it's in this location that's exactly right right there y so um I I know David we've talked about having uh getting some surveying done around the properties of um Freeman Lake um we've had a number of questions about the boundaries so I think we just add this one to the list um that's what I told them that would be done yeah and it's not going to happen overnight it's going to take some time we have um we have to find the funding for that and the the availability actually probably the bigger thing is the availability of the uh surveyor yes um but even before that I think tit the title exam title yeah okay all right so um let's move on then um are there any other open uh citizen concerns uh anything that's not on the agenda tonight anyone want to bring anything up don't see anything okay so we will go to our report from our planning board liaison hello Chris good evening good evening um our meeting tomorrow is actually a pretty big agenda um we're going to be talking uh first our meeting is going to start at 6:30 with a work session uh we'll be talking about our uh master plan items for the planning board uh walking through some of those then um we've got a new application for seid um applicability uh question for 300 B r Road uh we've got a minor modification that we're reviewing for the car wash at 191 chelsford Street um there slightly changes slight changes to the footprint and moving the recirculation tanks um so we'll be looking at that um reviewing that 150 North Road will be reviewing again um probably closing that one out uh and then we've got uh ten hrth again on the agenda for tomorrow night okay any questions okay good thank you appreciate it Chris regulatory hearings we have a notice of intent that was continued from August 27th at our last meeting uh town of chelsford DPW at Hugo Lane and State Street and so we are looking for Tony and Courtney Courtney hi Courtney hi Tony hi how's it going good uh Tony Ruchi Town engineer uh so it was continued as you just mentioned uh there were a couple of questions that were asked in that meeting couple of questions that were asked uh six weeks ago at the first meeting uh that we have some of the answers to we have most of the answers and we have uh a lot more work to do in some other areas that are outside of Hugo so I kind of want to start with the Hugo Lane questions first perect uh if there's any other questions on that we'll can get through that and then address the other issues that were brought up from the last meeting so um does that work for everyone that makes sense yep okay so uh David do you mind bringing up Hugo Lane on the goo app goo app so uh could you pan to the north and a little to the east so one of the questions that was asked that's perfect uh one of the questions that was asked as if we're increasing the pipe size that we're increasing flow that goes through the pipe so the section of pipe that we're looking to replace is north of State Street from Hugo Lane it is fed by two catch basins the only water that goes in those catch basins is from impervious impervious area on Hugo Lane itself we're not doing any construction on Hugo Lane to increase impervious area so the question or people saying are we increasing flow the answer is no we're not increasing any flow because we're not increasing any of the impervious area in that location um question's been asked is why we're replacing the pipe and so uh this was something I had done a few months ago which is why we brought it as an noi so uh the 10-in hdp pipe that was installed has a maximum flow of 2.2 cubic feet per second when you do uh engineering and we want to do pipe Rehabilitation as this was a failed corrugated metal pipe the maximum flow that the corrugated metal pipe could have was 2.7 cubic feet per second we never want to replace a pipe with something that does not at least match or increase the maximum flow that could go through the pipe this is the whole reason why we're here before you is to correct that 10-in to a appropriate size pipe and so going back to the 15-in plastic pipe actually gives us a much larger flow of 6.6 cubic feet per second that's just the maximum flow that can go through the pipe because we're going from corrugated metal which has a really high friction Factor versus a plastic pipe which is much less again we're not increasing flow through the pipe it's just that maximum capacity that can get in the pipe should be equal to or larger which is why we're going with that 15-in plastic versus the 10in plastic um a part of this project when the wetlands were uh disrupted about a year and a half ago in Spring of 2023 there was some regrading that was done and uh one of the neighbors or residents out there has noted that the wat is kind of still a standstill and so in this process there's a catch Basin located in the back of State uh little higher North one more David yes that that catch Basin there so we wanted to put in a rip wrap area of stone just to prevent what happened was as water was flowing there's a bit of erosion that occurred and kind of blocking some of the water and so part of this is just regrading that and putting in rip wrap to prevent or to prevent future erosion and prevention of any water getting into that catch Basin that catch Basin has been functioning like that since the 1960s again we're not adding or changing any flow we're going back to the original Contours that were in that location and so no flow increase on Hugo Lane in those two segments as far as lining the pipe from that catch Basin out to State Street we are going from an 18-inch corrugated metal pipe to a 17-inch plus minus plastic pipe the flow actually can increase to that again because of the friction but we're not increasing flow the flow that goes to there comes down Sand's place and from Hugo again we're not increasing or changing any impervious area we're just uh allowing flow to flow through the pipes uh it was questioned or asked is that going to increase or see increased volume or scouring down at Noble the answer to that is no it has to take a 90 degree turn when it gets into State and then again another 90 degree turn through drain men holes and 24 inch and 30inch RCP pipes reinforced concrete pipes those are going to be the limiting factors we're not touching those we're not changing those so the maximum flow that could have gone through those pipes previously the same maximum flow can go through them now no no increase on that are there any questions from commissions or if you want to ask anyone that just for clarification on just the Hugo Lane uh construction and process that we're discussing John do you have any questions the only thing that bothers me is we have a number of people here in the room that feel they're going to be affected Downstream I would like to talk about the town's doing I think they're doing right okay let's go with that but we got to address the citizens that are paying taxes in the town yep okay but that's a whole different ball right so Tony said let's pass this out I I know I know what he said yep but I'm saying this people here that are concerned about it so I don't know I'm I'm happy with the size of the pipes everything's going to be hunky dory with the size of the pipes the rip wrap that's fine I I want to put this thing to bed the last meeting that was my exact words and then we had a lot of people so let's go with it okay Bill I think he's going to address that hopefully that was I feel the same way John does okay Chris yeah I mean just echoing my colleagues here I mean we we want to just make sure that um you know that we're listening to the public and that um you know we're we're paying attention and want to make sure that they get um action uh appropriately to correct their problems as well too and that's where I'm coming from okay yeah I agree with everyone Tony I noticed that you stamped at least some of the drawings so I mean this thing is got full attention of a licensed professional engineer and I don't think at least me as a Committee Member I can add anything to that okay so thank you I'll I'll just add uh the Tony you had mentioned that the current 10-inch pipe uh cannot accommodate the 25e storm right and so that goes into that that maximum flow capacity that you look at the 15-inch corrugated the flow that could have gone through it and when it was originally built the design 4 the 10-in does not have the same capacity and so that's that's why we want to replace it and that's why we want to go back to the the 15in that was originally installed in that location so and and if you don't go back to the 15inch Hugo Lane will flood there's potential there's potential Hugo Lane would flood not due to catch basins and flow volume going through the catch Basin openings themselves but due to the the the 10-in pipe restricting flow as it's it's not the correct size and so that's again that's why we're here just to to correct that from the 10in back to the 15 so which it should have been I will say just should have been replaced like that to begin with and in the future when we do any type of pipe Rehabilitation on failed pipes corrugated metal the number one thing is we don't downsize unless there's some conflict and then we would go through all the engineering calculations to prove that flow can work in a smaller diameter pipe so the minimum is use the same size pipe with a superior material and that's that's a that's a great place to start and so that's what we're going to would be doing moving forward certainly you don't want Hugo Lane to flood a 25e storm which is probably happening more often than 25 years now yeah okay soorry Peter go ahead yeah I just I'm sorry I I knew you were going to raise that but I guess my question Tony and without getting into a lot of detail sure um 25 years storms as we know you know it's raining harder will the the homeowners on Hugo still experience flooding in the street because it's raining harder than the traditional well so I years storm how do you now of Hugo Lane flooding which means the way in the street I'm not talking the The Yards the back of the property is just physically in the street outside of instances where we have four inches of rain coming down in a half an hour but the limiting fact of that is the catch Bas and they only have so many openings and water can't physically go down it any faster so with the pipe change that we're trying to go back to the same issues that have ever occurred for the last 60 years but that's a catch Bas and like orifice opening size that we can't change or correct we don't want to just miscellane just add four more catch bases in every location just to accommodate 25 or 100e storm events as the whole town would just be littered with structures and it just it's not feasible so since we don't have record of hug Lane being underwater now during storms we don't want to then create a problem where they could be and that that's why we want to go back to that 15inch pipe size and I know with the increase in storms and I I know looking at the 2070 and how the 100-year storm event is going to increase from 7.6 inches to I think it's like 9.5 inches that's a lot more rer that's a lot more volume that we'll have to deal with unfortunately we can't design for a 100-year storm in the year 2070 right that's just it's too far of an overdesign for catch basins and things of that nature now if it was uh dams or things that are are different type of infrastructure that's what you designed for but for catch basins and the pipe flow you just use a 25e storm event yeah so the takeaway is that the weather is changing and the town's scrambling to keep up and there's no Magic Bullet cuz you're not going to design you know for 50 years from now correct I mean I me and this is also a very small small area on just Hugo Lane that's in a much larger Watershed that has uh when we start talking about on Noble drive and Freeman uh I believe I sent David there was 57 catch basins just in this area that all connect and drain into that location let alone all the other areas that then pipe into this network so it's a it's a much larger thing and so but just this one or this section where it's two catch Basin to a manhole to another catch Basin I I could say that just putting in that 15inch it shouldn't have any more increased flooding on Hugo Lane itself on the roadway thank thank you okay David do you have anything else you wanted to add on this I know we're going to talk about Noble and I don't think I want to close the hearing until we have that discussion on Noble no I don't have anything more to add on this particular aspect okay uh sorry so let's shift gears then sure if you want to talk yeah so residents have brought up uh flooding erosion and issues down on Noble Drive in between State Lord and Freeman so in 2020 we had a stormw water master plan that was developed this was flagged as one of the locations in town as a known flooding issue and a known flooding concern it was number four out of seven um some of the other ones that were on that list we did a watershed study this year uh it cost $270,000 for three watersheds all of which are smaller than this Watershed and that's going to take about a year or so to complete maybe 11 months so I know there was discussion on could we do a watershed study or analysis for this Watershed it's going to cost over $15 to $130,000 and and that is something we would we want to do we are aware of it it's been flagged from 2020 and so we we know that's an issue it's just we don't have the funding to go and do that right now and so the top two priorities out of that flooding list are in the Weds that are getting studied right now so when that priorit was done prioritization was done by West and Samson this was given a four out of the seven so not the highest priority but it is a known flooding location that we do want to address so with the residents coming out since I've been here I haven't received or had calls we keep an in log in the engineering department for all flooding concerns Noble Drive was not a call-in or a concern so we haven't really been looking into it outside of just knowing it's a larger flood area Okay since the residents have brought it up we have gone out there I was out there yesterday I know the storm water superintendent was out there a couple weeks ago uh and then he was out there again with me on Monday Courtney's been out there we've spoken to a lot of the residents uh we came up with just a quick report just as we walked down it we sent that to David showing that on all the outfalls there are six and total that they need rip wrap they need to be armored there's erosion that is occurring just around those the ditch or drainage sale itself for the age and how old it is is in pretty good condition but there is erosion that is happening on either side this is happening all over town in all of our drainage swells and so it's something that we want to look into further but until we can identify all of the correct drainage paths there are some catch basins we have map that just have outfalls or inlets going into them that aren't mapped to anything so we want to have those camera when we out there on Monday there was a light flow going through it we went back into the manhole Tri to investigate it we realized flow was coming from Bishop not from Hugo our state so again this is where I could say the work and everything that we're proposing on Hugo the water that's flowing through that ditch when we were out there on Monday isn't even coming from Hugo it's coming from Bishop which is that other section we open some manholes we're doing some catch basins we have a couple more things we want a camera the storm water department got their camera truck say it was the third Monday in August just got it yeah yeah and we have 50 different places that have been flagged over the last eight months that we need to do investigations on and now I don't want to say unfortunately this is added to that long list but we are going to make Headway on it and get through it but it's not something I can give you this is our definitive plan as we still need to figure out exactly what's out there come up with what we can do outside of doing the rip wrap around the outfalls uh to prevent any further erosion and then we still there's some evasivas we kind of want to clear it I know the residents have brought that the Swale itself that ditch has moved slightly in our 20 foot easement I want to get our easement mapped out look at it see where it actually falls within those limits I know there's a lot of tree growth now so it's not something that we want to rip out roots and try to realign it but it's really just protecting maintaining where that is now but I could go into all the different are ideas that I want to do or we need funding to do we just need time and so that's something that we um are going to do try to look into more this fall but I won't have any real answers or any even potential costs for what might need to be done until sometime in October November once we we can get out there and really look at everything and have a better understanding of the entire network okay so does anyone have any questions on that or or specific questions as to how or what we would be trying to do I'm just going to look around and then I'm going to ask for audience uh anybody in the Dave do you want to add just add a few things so so uh I was out there with Courtney on Wednesday um several of the neighbors were there thought we we had a good meeting good good uh conversation about the issues the concerns uh it was uh very helpful to me um see that I I think it's actually the concern is actually one less of flooding than it is erosion um that it's certainly easy to see that the uh the neighbors have lost you know uh several feet of their backyards uh over over the over the years um and that and that that will continue um I think it's I think it's due to the the the volume and flow velocity uh in within that ditch um so so uh the I I think it's a matter I think it's a matter of and I think this is essentially what Tony is saying as well it's a matter of doing something short term to try to address you know some of the immediate concerns you know maybe the most serious ones then doing something uh over the long term um in my in my opinion this is not a jurisdictional wetland so that so that a filing with the commission is not necessary okay to to you know address the issues and you know certainly DPW is well aware of what they are I mean they're not going to fill it in I also wouldn't downplay the flooding I know a resident mentioned to me during heavier storms it rises like three or four feet out there so um and I know there is erosion but as it rises and then recedes away it is going to start pulling away from more of that so that is something that again we want to look into a bit further we want to get out there when it is raining during at least the rainstorm of 1 inch or more and kind of just see what it looks like get videos uh we'll end up trying to do die testing as well just to make sure we know where all the out outfalls are coming from um but again it's just a much longer process than anything we could turn around within two weeks let alone the funding or moving forward with projects and things of that nature as most of our Capital planning's done right now for next year so if it's something that we can go through and identify maybe we could try to move into it or it might end up being a little bit farther down the line but again something we do want to address and we are are going to work on okay Chris so just a comment I mean I think what what I'm hearing um is that you know the town's listening it's listening to the concerns have been expressed that what I'm hearing is we we've got some short-term action that we can take and we're going to take a good look at coming up with a long-term solution as well and we're going to be you know reporting back as progress is made so I I feel much more comfortable that this certainly is getting you know the proper attention from from people in the town so I feel a lot better about this anyone else perfect okay why don't we get comments from the citizens neighbors alen him we won Hugo Lane uh chelsford I just want to let the committee know that we've never had a flooding problem on Hugo Lane as was discussed the water always flow to the storm drains even during you know heavy rainstorm that's never been an issue and I think it it it pleases me that we'll go back to the 15-inch pipe because the old corated pipe was 15in it always worked until it obviously what is it 50 or 60 years old it's degraded so I think doing that regrading it creating the swes to its original I think that should solve the whole problem really because that's your whole problem huh from your area my my whole not the noble y yeah no not the noble I mean but understood we're friends the neighbors so we want everybody's problem solved at the same and I think this is the right way to do it I again I don't know why um the pipe was undersized if the original corrugated pipe was 15 in but at least that's solved and so thank you for your time thanks for your input anyone else good evening Mr chairman and members of the board Lyn Havener 7 Noble Drive I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you all for performing due diligence and listening to the neighbors and not taking a quick vote on this I appreciate that that I also want to thank David Co for coming out last week for taking that time and for Courtney Thompson for also coming out and walking the area with me my husband and one of our neighbors I also want to thank Courtney for coming back last week uh actually this week with Tony and taking more notes and just getting a real sense of what's happening and as Mr garrian said I too feel more comfortable now knowing that we're being heard um I'm all for our Neighbors on Hugo of having this issue resolved as I said it all along um and I just want to thank you for your time on this thank you good night appreciate it okay uh any anyone else no any nobody online okay Mr chairman move do we close this hearing motion from Chris do we have a second second second from Bill all in favor I I motion to close the hearing is passes I move do we issue an order of conditions do we need anything special faor um I would recommend a couple of special conditions um although one one of them is actually more standard uh is is to do the work and the absence of surface water which hopefully um can be done shortly do you have a sense of when you can get out there so we had purchased the material uh so uh the stormw superintendent's waiting to get the order of conditions and it's going to get scheduled next okay should be able to get you that by the end of the week so but and then and then and then just the other special condition is to work closely on me with me on reestablishing that drainage sale that goes into the catch base and and uh we we requ when uh we go set up everything that you go out there that way we can pick out the location when we're doing our uh stockpiling the material and so not a problem or or or uh or may I don't know whether I don't that might be the last thing you do I'll leave it up to you okay when you when you how you want to sequence that not problem those are the two special okay thanks any any other conditions okay so so move Mr chair motion with those chairs with those uh conditions second second from Bill motion from Chris all in favor I I not opposed so unanimous so thank you appreciate all the work thank you thank you courtne thank thank you Tony yep and Courtney and to the neighbors that concludes our regulatory hearing portion of the uh of the evening so wow that's um that's about as early as we've ever had in in probably a year or two okay let's get on we are going to talk now a little bit about the CH strategic plan also we're going to talk about the may work session that we had a few months ago and then we'll get into Land Management I think oh I also want to talk about the open space uh plan progress but um Peter we talked a little bit you and I talked a little bit about the Strategic plan I know you're on that committee so um I did sign up to be interviewed by that group excellent um next week I think representing the commission uh because they like to have people representing boards do that so that's happening good if you want to talk for few minutes on this well yeah so uh Carl you'd welcome input yes I gather absolutely so yeah a couple copies more coming down for you want he some more copies no I got enough more I'm me more yeah I didn't hit them all I'm sorry I got more do you need more I think we're good we're pass those down good yeah so just quickly um you've probably heard about the Strategic plan that the town is doing uh funding was authorized by town meeting the select board's been driving this forward along with a committee and an outside consultant uh it's really pretty simple what's the town's vision for what we're going to look like in 5 or 10 years and let's come up with a document everybody more or less agrees to that's kind of the North Star Guiding Light for Town decisions so I think this commission probably agrees with my statement that the the conservation values that we're here to protect the eight interest of the ACT are probably pretty important going forward as the town experiences uh more pressure from from both development um and climate you know all the stuff we deal with really so um there's a number of ways that you can express an opinion into this process and there's also uh uh well there's a number of ways and I can I'll describe those briefly but um Carl what I just handed you is the list of interview questions that I think Carl will be presented with so he'll be talking to the consultant on behalf half of the concom these are the questions that are supposed to guide that interview um so Carl with that um there is an opportunity here for each of us to weigh in on this process and there's a couple of opportunities and I'll defer to Carl for how you want to proceed but one approach would be if if if you felt inclined to offer some ideas here um they could be offered to Carl and Carl could or we can help him assimilate those and present those at the interview that's option a um option b as sort of a combined Conservation Commission point of view and given the time constraints I think you know and we know Carl so I think we all would trust him to convey that information the second approach though is each of us could respond to these 10 questions and submit them direct to uh the consultant that's doing the work there is a third approach there are four Community meetings coming up starting with a big ice cream Gala and kind of a kickoff at the Elks Club on September 18th a week from tomorrow yeah and that actually is a work session though that's not really a party and the consultant is going to organize people that are at the 18th into little work groups to come up with ideas and input to the planning process so that is another way to make your voice heard um and there are some follow-up meetings in October kind of the same idea so three choices here um Carl can just carry the message for us with without our input the second approach is as a citizen you can certainly think about these questions and bring them to the well and submit them direct and then the third approach is with or without written responses come to the 18th event or one of the three in October so having said that um Carl I don't know where you want to go what I'd think I'd like to do is rather than going through this now um these 10 questions now is to um you guys have the sheet if you want to send me either a phone call or an email send me your thoughts on any you know all 10 three of them whatever make sense or just trust me to provide the Conservation Commission input so uh and then and then secondly you're all totally welcome as individual citizens to send your own input directly in as everyone in town is is welcome to do so John I think what we just went through tonight is one of the things you know the citizens that were here previous to this meeting was a lot more on hugle Lane MH there's a lot of concerns over there but what we just did we sort of smoothed it over I guess enough for everybody to be happy you know I'm not sure this mooth it over means to me like we kind of buried it but and we didn't we addressed it we addressed it the town yeah they're paying taxes yeah no I know what you meant and no I feel for the yeah you know yep yep but and it's indicative to I think to what Peter's talking about is in the long term we're going to keep seeing this this is you're right you know and so from a strategic point of view you know what things could we be doing and it's in these questions various ways to answer those questions to say what things could the town be doing um that can help I guess help mitigate some of those issues from getting getting worse how do we get ahead of them I I I just personally I mean the more we can do to to maintain Green Space more we can do to maintain trees and and you know protect the environment you know whatever actions we can take to conserve water things like that you know we come up with policies along those lines be good yeah and and the reason the reason that I was sort of lobbying everybody to weigh in is picture a consultant that does this kind of thing we we like them um coupled with the 10 member committee looking at this question what's important so you know what's on our fellow citizens top of mind right taxes schools traffic taxes uh inflation I mean you know the all taxes okay but here's my pitch I don't think the town this is just my opinion and I'm looking for somebody to to disagree with me not now but later but my thought is you know the town really can't do a whole lot for traffic I mean a little bit but we can't stop the flow of cars and trucks through town secondly housing well okay we can bear down more on on affordable housing units but as far as housing values you know my kid can't afford to live here I'm not sure the town has any real influence um taxes I don't know I mean for town taxes what are you going to do cut Services I mean I don't see that we have a ton of input and then I get to all of the environmental stuff you know sustainability stuff the planning board considers um stuff this commission considers the the tree stuff all of that quality of life thing related to the environment you know cooler temperatures if we have more trees you know less flooding if we have good flood manage you know the whole story those are issues that are changing that I think we can highly influence as a town by making careful decisions as we approve of new projects and as we you know hopefully continue acquiring more land so my thought is it's important to have that voice into the Strategic strategic plan um higher pay grades are going to figure out how to prioritize it but um a lot of this stuff we work with is's a little bit is pretty much out of sight and out of mind I think until there's a problem like like noble drive you know and then all a sudden people like well why is it rain anymore and and how come this is happening well it's because and so I think the town does is in a position to really steer you know that issue going forward um so that's why it's important to me that that our Collective voice gets heard and that's my pitch to come to some of these meetings which is why I think it's important we have both a commission voice and also as individuals we can make you know right because it's two different things you can still complain about taxes and anything else traffic that's totally fine as a board we're concerned about yeah conservation issues right but but you can also comp ta a lot of other things come into play yeah so it's two different opinions yeah yeah and so so once again if you choose to answer this on your own I mean make your make your own decisions but the way I looked at it is hey there's some things I can't change I can complain about taxes as well as the next guy but like what do I really expect the town to do I mean keep a lid on it yeah but don't go crazy of course but I think we're already there what else do we need to have the town do over the next five or 10 years on taxes and so when I rank these things I put some of those things kind of low even though they're actually very important to me but again it's what's what's actionable what's actionable and also I think a lot has to do with helping commissions like us select board planning board school board when they see the strategy it helps them make decisions by knowing what the strategy is it helps them helps guide them in their decision- making hey you know they can point to the strategy that was developed and be able to not have to not have to kind of reinvent the wheel every time but right so I think that's helpful and I guess Carl just before I yield the floor here um my last sort of pitch is uh um this commission is in a wonderful position to respond to some of these questions you know what do the town do well what does the town not do well because we have sort of a broad view you know through the commission activity so I really thought you all in particular would be excellent people to comment on all of these things and get that into the consultant helping us formulate the future plan so yeah feel free to reach out to me if you have any other questions that I could help with so does this approach uh make sense absolutely we'll feed feed our comments into you that way you can reflect the commission yep as a whole and then we're still free to you know follow up on our own individual conserv if they're different well even the last few applicants that came before us things that we never considered before like pasas and that right we need direction going forward of how a project comes in how we're going to address those issues and be consistent because it's a new thing now yep and and the fact that we you reach sewer capacity people are putting septic tanks in or talking about it at least those type of fields in we have to have some kind of direction that that's consistent yes and there's a home there's a home for that you know what's the town doing well what's the town perhaps not doing well on these new issues no one's doing a good job on right out there in the community so I mean there's no harm in pointing that out right well I think one board doesn't know what the other board is looking for because it's all new so we have to be on the same page going in the same direction correct but you know we got a ton of these issues right the the flooding the POS the all the habitat stuff that's lurking beneath the surface right A lot of people cutting trees because they're afraid it's going to fall in their house and on the on the other hand we're losing canopy left and right tree canopy in town so that's their priority though yeah sure person's paying taxes they have a tree they can cut it okay you can't control certain things yeah yeah no you have to you have to realize there's people out there that want to do things and you can't say no for certain things for cutting a tree down yeah you're you're preaching to the choir all right I mean you're preaching to the choir willow trees a trees and I'm going to stick with that I knew you were going to talk about will trees I knew it and I'm going toti trees are very beneficial to the environment no they're not yes they are they're not the science says they are why are they why are they not allowed my wife because they're not good for the for the let's not get into it no this is debate right no it's not debate I'm just getting prepared trees so we'll we'll be we'll be muting the the mic soon I guess who brought the trees up yeah so we'll um any further discussion on this uh any anything else anybody want to add any more we good good good okay you're good as long as you don't talk about willow trees Cy you have my full support I didn't say plant them in the in the in the center can't plant them it's against the law okay weeping willows so uh the next issue on the on the agenda is reviewing uh the may work session so if you recall back in may we took a an extra meeting into our agenda into our sessions the minutes are up on the screen uh what's that the minutes of that meeting are up on the screen oh thank you and I actually made some notes on that so I I think I have most of that um so we talked about a number of things um in that meeting and um I kind of just want to run through some of them and kind of just refresh with the commission on what's working well what we've improved on what things are still open um I actually I might just start by we talked about the eight interests and thank you Peter for staying on top of this but this is in the CMR 310 cmr1 purpose uh so the eight interests are protection of public and private water supply protection of groundwater Supply flood control storm damage prevention prevention of pollution protection of land containing shellfish protection of fisheries and protection of wildlife habitat so those are the eight interest that the Conservation Commission uh hold um and so that's kind of like our I don't know what's that our North Star or something like that uh that we keep keep you know keep in our in our minds um so when we talk about this there were some tactical things we talked about like things like delivery of materials to David by uh the agent by Wednesday plans a butter letters things like that that we need to get this kind of information and David your um comments to me have been that's it's working pretty well and you're able to use this with applicants uh to uh to help I'm seeing nodding so good okay any any it seems to be helping out a bit uh it is having that okay good um another one we talked about was the peer review process and that um there was an ask that we would include discussions our discussions with the peer reviewer in the meeting in our hearings um have an opportunity to make that and I think I've seen that happening a number of times we've been doing that um I know um we've had a number of peer reviews in the last uh well since our May meeting we've had a number of different ones and I think we've generally had some very good ones that have done done some good work here I don't know if there's any other comments on peerreview any other changes or progress or impressions nothing okay um requirements for engineering plans um and having printed copies we we are seeing printed copies that's that's been a plus that's really good um and also making sure that our applicants are giving us engineering stamped engineering plans we're seeing that pretty consistently or I will say consistently um any any comment there I don't I don't think there's any issue there that's been going well um uh working the the questions around the commission members um making sure everybody's asking questions but not too many questions I think that's been going I think I think that's been going pretty well yeah seems good okay um summarizing what's needed for the next session uh when a hearing is continued um and also the number of continuations we're still seeing continuations being a lot but um I think we're reigning an in event I think we're doing better at summer izing what is the deliverable to get to the next uh the next session the next uh continued hearing yeah I think there's a lot less rehashing of the same old stuff over and over again so I think we're making progress there approved there yeah good um permiting conditions um we talked about that there's the 21 day window after the vote but that we want to make sure that conditions will be reviewed during the hearing and uh the hearing shouldn't be closed before the earrings are reviewed by the commission and the applicant and I know we had a couple of back a while that's why that came up but I don't think we've had any issues since then I think we're refreshing on that I think that's going well y the open things that we either are not able to get to or for whatever um I show were the document retrieval improvements um there's opportunity there to to do some things better but um I think that really rears its head when we have these big projects and that's that's when that gets to be a challenge um the state the other one was we talked about um the old certificate of compliances that keep popping up especially when we have condo associations that they might be partial certificate of compliances but the full project doesn't have one somebody goes to sell their unit we it just gets to be kind of ugly um we don't have a project to go start working through that we haven't done anything there don't think correct um if we had a resource that could you know was interested in you know an intern or a senior citizen that might be something to work through um you and I can talk about trying to make that happen or talk to is it Trish that that manages who who manages the senior citizens that uh do those kind I think it is the town GL okay so if we think we want to do that it it's one of those things that every time it comes up we say this and then then it goes away from a few weeks or months and the last thing was we talked about delineations in Winter conditions and that we might want to adjust that I'm trying to remember that discussion I don't remember it too much but that we would have to adjust bylaws and regulations was that something we were looking to do or we thought we might need to do or um I think uh here it's up there but and will be reviewed um I I should remember off the top of my head head what the regulations currently says or say um I think I think it says it's really up to the commission's discretion you know working with its Consultants um whether it's possible to do a delineation in the winter of course we're certainly seeing a lot less snow the issue the issue is more snow than than anything else of course if it's if if the soil is Frozen that's tough to do as well um but yeah I think I I I know I was planning to go back and review explicit specifically what the regulations say about wintertime delineations and I've been remiss in not doing that and and it's a particular issue uh for vernal pools right well time of year absolutely you know you can't you can't confirm a Vernal pool in the winter that's for sure or or any other time but the spring so that that when apparently it's not super hot so um we want to get to it and do something we can do that but uh was there anything else that we were that I missed or that was in there or anything that or outside of this if somebody sees something that we want to make some improvement or change or do better or stop doing start doing stop doing keep doing I I think you summarized it pretty well Carl um there was a Carl it might be worth just mentioning but not spending time on one of the headings here was dependency on other Town boards and departments and when we got together in may we realized the the the Gap analysis was being worked on by D I guess D I skipped over it it was it was in my list so that's but that's in the works is I think probably all it is I know Christine gives this update to the um to the SEL board that that is now in process they have a um consultant I think and they're working this with the Board of Health but we haven't been pulled in yet and I'm hoping we will because I think that's really important for us I think that Gap analysis because as we go to our eight interests a lot of that is about water and and then that Gap analysis about how do we look to prevention of pollution for example when we don't really have a bylaw other than an interest but the Board of Health has a bylaw and uh or or they have regulations so that to me is important and then figure out how we can work with the Board of Health for example do we ask them for a can we get your report right so and and perhaps the takeaway is I assume we'll be invited to the commission to participate I told we would be yeah I was told we would be yeah so that that would be helpful for us to Define you know like for example one of our interests we're supposed to protect is pollution we don't have any bylaws I don't know if the Board of Health really does but I me what does that really mean that's I think what will probably the Gap analysis will help flush some of that out that's what I'm hoping y okay okay that's all I had there I think it's good to review this every few months so it's we can add to it if something comes up but just to check reminder are we helping him out are we helping David out are we helping he's going home early now he's got so much time right but I mean I think it's good to just bring it up and discuss it for 10 15 minutes every so often okay thanks all right uh let's keep moving on um open space and recck plan committee um a lot of progress going on there um the survey has closed um the data and results and Analysis are being reviewed we have a meeting a week from tonight uh and we will go through that um we do have the data we're looking at it there is a lot of activity going on on the uh assessment of accessibility of Open Spaces across town um my friend here in the audience Mr Sperry is uh extraordinarily busy with that and a number of other people were working with the uh commission uh Commission on disabilities uh with their team uh and some volunteers to make that happen but there's a lot involved there I know Peter your sub team is is working the chapters 2 three 4 I think it is and making really good progress and it's it's coming along good the ncog folks have done a great job helping us moving forward um we're making progress um I think we're going to get it you know into the you know end of the year um what am I missing anything else I'm missing uh Peter or um no I I think they I think they're going to have a draft of the new plan um for the October I I think that's on the schedule October yes the the October committee meeting yeah I think I think Carl this isn't the right Forum but I've been thinking about um you know Nim Cog is is doing what they were asked to do is to use the results of the community survey to help establish some goals but I think there was only hundred some odd respondents to the community survey I thought it was in the 400 range was it 400 I'm going see have seen an old version that's what I heard was 400 all right that makes me feel a little better yeah I think that's a good number okay I'll table this yeah I guess all I want to say is there's a bunch of things that we all are interested in that aren't they're important but not necessarily come through on the survey well and the the survey is one of the inputs that we're using and and we are going to be looking at setting goals at our next meeting yeah and so I guess I should know car but what is the the process for Commissioners to weigh in other than the surveys and whatnot are we going to have a like a draft review it's process that I think the commission does review it at some point um because it's a sub well it's um yeah the the standard process for is for the commission to review it after it's basically written but I but I but I think it it I think the commission should really review a draft okay um and we we should talk about that at that the next meeting maybe the meeting where it's presented yeah because we need to be sure everybody's interests are absolutely absolutely yeah okay um continual business we don't have anything in there um uh no uh that's I guess Land Management so progress on the right reservation walkway we got six out of 12 of the sections that we have in phase one you can see right there is a picture so we're making really good progress tomorrow morning early in the morning we'll be putting another six unit six of those down and that'll be half of the uh of the implementation the other half will probably not be until October uh we got to take a little break this is taking a lot of time so but it's yeah it's coming good it's really good it's also we recognized uh walking on the older one that it needs some attention it's it's in I'd call it fair shape but I think with a fair amount of attention we can get it back into very good shape that's a great design it's really it's really I mean I'm thinking something like that you know like crooked spring exactly would be perfect out of crooked spring you might need a 20in pipe a little bigger a little bigger an 8 in pipe but that design is great but yeah it's it's pretty clever yeah yeah again we stole that Dave sper copied it from uh Bedford the Bedford Trails committee and it's like hey that's pretty good so so so any feedback from our design and construction team uh love it love it I mean the fact that we can build all of that at the Warren pole uh barn and then just deliver it and put it in place I mean all that all that happened Saturday morning from 8:00 till 11:00 wow and uh wow that's pretty good now it was weeks of building and planting and you know cutting and you know and almost all of it Steve mayot um but uh yeah it's going good it's going good and we like the concept um Kess uh we we should visit the site as a group um I keep saying that we need to make that happen I keep I thought we were going to do it a couple times this summer and of course summer is not a really good time to schedule time I'd like to wait till Mark gets back so I'm not sure how long he's gone I know he's not no he's gone for the night oh just tonight okay all right so any chance we could go Thursday this week th like four o'clock thday this week I'm in Boston Thursday okay maybe I'm I'm not going to be here at the next meeting um I'm gone for two weeks out of the country so and next week's already pretty busy so may maybe we'll get to it in October it we'll get to it in October okay um update get to it after Frost huh get to it after Frost yeah I suppose it' be easier to get around in places yeah I think you're better off after Frost okay Warren pole um we uh I happen to run into I was there last week actually I was there getting ready for Saturday um but I was at Warren pole on Friday afternoon and I saw the Oxo um Oxo guy doing the wetlands flagging um on the on the main Meadow area so that was good to see that's getting either complete it he might have been finishing it that day what's interesting is that whole middle Meadow is wetland the whole front to back left to right from Stone Wall to Stonewall it's all Wetland interesting um tomorrow uh David and I are meeting if anybody wants to join us we are going to be meeting Kate Benson from the state uh de Department of ecological restoration um she's just uh offered to come and take a look at that site at the um fact that we're trying to you know restore this uh Meadow area and um she was going to come a few weeks ago but she wasn't feeling well I met her back at the Mac meeting back in March um she's done this kind of work elsewhere in the state so we're going to just just have a visit with her at 1:00 tomorrow afternoon afternoon um so you're welcome to to join us um we are still waiting for KP law to review the um CR I'm I'm I'm aiming to email that to them next week okay I know you're you're parsing things with them I I understand yes um but I think I think there's enough of a all now so that I think next week will work okay and the only other thing was the trails were cut the other day by Steve mayot this was after we did the thing on right on Saturday he went out Sunday and cut the trails at Warren pole and Christine and I and Dave Sperry was there uh we did walk the site a CP a week ago a couple weeks ago looking for um trees that we discussed here to have the dpws uh chainsaw training uh done and we got we got a we can pretty much do it all at Warren pole there's enough there near the Trails um so but that's not until late October when that will happen so so the only thing I'll add is that DPW actually Trevor at DPW is producing the asille plan I saw I saw him there too oh did you I happen to run into him he was he was doing the the yep yep he's on it so progress y thanks I forgot I saw him there okay uh anything else agents report so um which will is basically an extension of Land Management is there there are a number of parcels now where where um either either Fallen trees have to be removed or uh Butters are concerned about uh dead dead and dying trees that um need to they they feel need to come down so um I think I think I mentioned this at the last meeting um there was there was a tree that came down on a proper on at 13 uh Green Valley Drive which abouts right right yeah so that that tree is being removed on Thursday um at 144 Parker um the commission may recall that um there was there was a tree that that came down uh because probably a couple of years ago um from from right onto that property that has been removed but there was also concern with a couple of dead trees on uh right uh which the Butters are concerned about um in the Pro I'm in the process of having them get estimates or price quotes to get those two removed um there's at 94 Meadowbrook Road I got a call a couple days ago from uh those residents that a rather large tree uh on that auding conservation land has come down and came down right on top of their fence so um I shouldn't should be pretty consistent with policy for the commission to pay to have that tree removed but they're also asking for um the town to uh pay for having the fence restored so probably a conversation we'll have to have okay at some point um and I think there was uh oh and and and the trees have been removed uh at Old Stage Road that that work was and oh and and on war pole there there's a tree or tree branch yeah that that came down and that has not been removed and I'm uh I'm I'm going to plan to meet with um a uh a a tree service out there um get get an estimate I think that probably should be cheap enough so maybe we don't have to get three three estimates okay uh next thing is uh order of conditions resigning 12966 5 one lak site Avenue yes that's that's the first one there's Al there's also another one that didn't make it to the agenda but this is this this one is just the resigning yeah three of you already have signed it um so that doesn't need a vote um but speaking of old certificates of compliance um one one Lakeside Avenue um which was uh construction of a new house that order of conditions I think was um issued back in uh um 2015 or something like that so that property is being sold and joh they need a certificate of compliance I'm sorry this is one Lakeside Avenue oh okay um which which that house was built uh about 10 years ago and property's being sold um they they they need a certificate of compliance on that one so um it it it it turns out that it it appears that the commission actually issued that previously or or at least I I I found I found assigned um a copy of assigned COC in the files um but I guess maybe it never got recorded so um so they they have to record it yeah um but that but that that that one I think it would be better to take a vote on that would be the one Le I yeah okay so that so what is it that that we just signed oh I'm I'm I'm sorry um that that was lak sight Avenue I'm sorry got a little bit confused um so the so the other one um which which is 265 cheler street that that that that was issued um back back in uh 2015 um that that one was the work the order was issued but the work was never done um so but but it was but it was recorded against the chain of title of the property they're current they're now doing a refinancing so they they need a certificate of compliance on that one so so again the work the work was never done this this would be the Box on the COC checked invalid order of conditions um order of conditions has expired without the work ever being started so that's what this one is so are we saying that we don't have any leverage to hold them to do the work correct because because it's expired 200 conditions is expired well well you by work you mean the construction work right not not some sort of Eco stuff right right it was I think it was to expand the parking lot I didn't I and they just didn't do it they they just didn't appar apparently they were trying to to work out some land swap deals that okay that never happened so um so they got far down the process and then killed it yep got it okay but but in the meantime this CFC is hanging out there that's right got it okay so then we need a vote right to to issue that certificate of compliance for for an invalid expired order of conditions so I'll make a motion then that we issue a certificate of compliance for an invalid order of conditions for 265 shord Street motion from Chris second from Bill all in favor I I any opposed none opposed motion passes sign you sign your life away thank you David that's um that that makes more sense now that now you explain it that way I understand so one L Side Avenue the three of you signed it property's being sold and then 265 is pretty clear that's right yes well we're just signing 265 here right yes yep and and and that and we're essentially saying it was never done it's an invalid order conditions that's right so we're kind of like undoing our so so one left side is the one that's being the home was built and the property is being sold yes but and it's a resign that appears the the order was um issued but never recorded way back when we okay so we have um but we're not excuse me we're not signing on Lakeside yes oh is that with that one that was that yeah it's just a resign oh it's not it's not a new issuance got it thank you well my I should have made that clear I got it thank you and meeting minutes we have two meeting minutes to review and approve uh this is for June 11th and June 25th if we can review those and um I've got one point of clarification so on the June 11th meeting uh St John Evangelist Church so I recuse myself from that hearing um so if you could just add a note that I recuse myself from that one be great other than that I think we're okay anybody have any need to look anymore or are you okay or I was um actually over at St John evangelist this past Sunday and they had kind of a big event going on and they used every parking space possible in that lot it was kind of interesting I ended up having to park across the street at uh at U I guess I could say this Dolan Dolan yeah did you take a look at the existing wet area to see if they could dig it out and create a new um going to do that next spring oh next spring okay yes see see if it's a veral pool all right I'll take a Miss uh yeah Mission I'll take a motion to approve the meeting minutes of June 11th 2024 motion from Chris second second from Bill all in favor hi hi we were all there right yeah we were all there uh uh yeah you weren't there at the 25th so so the next one is uh oh you were absent this says you were absent but that's not right on June 11th that should be corrected also no I was I was there yeah Vian on the 11th Chris was there on the 11th but he he I recused myself from the St John Evangelist Church one yeah you got that yes okay then we'll go to the 25th at it you were done with Mickey weren you uh yeah I was I was wondering where I was I can keep track of your schedule give me another minute here well actually you know what Vivian double check on that one okay maybe I wasn't there I don't know you just is there anything on the taper all that you could hear I'm I'm going to have to go back and look the video see if you there all [Music] right yeah I'm not seeing your name in there anymore I know I didn't make any motions so I'm suspecting maybe I was oh that might have been when I was um okay I was traveling to Ireland that week I think you did miss the first session that's right I was gone I was in Ireland that week so all right those don't question viven I I thought I had one you should question me every single I thought I had one there for you I'll take a motion on the June 25th meeting minutes not from Bill Vines uh cuz he would definitely wasn't there motion to approve I move to approve in favor I I second by John all in favor I pass motion passes meeting minutes pass and uh next week uh there is an annual I sent an email to you guys today I just there's an annual I don't know how annual it is but it's an annual committee orientation meeting next two weeks from today I think it is September 24th at 6 p.m. at the library so we have our conservation meeting at 7 o' so this is a um you'll see it in the email it has um a number of uh agenda items and including KP law talking about a few things I won't be here for that meeting that night I um Chris will be Chris in charge and um so if you yeah keep that in mind I won't be there we're still down one person so if you decide you want to go to the meeting at 6 pm at the library don't don't put us at risk here we're going be we need a quum we need a quorum need a quum all right next yeah uh and then after that the next meeting is October 8th any uh anything else anybody want to add so I'm sorry who's definitely not here on the 24th besides you and our vacant chair okay that gets us down to five but is this is in uh it's at the library who's coming first for that meeting we have uh it's Hildreth hild street so do we have there's and then there's going to be an RDA as well so but I think Mark is got to be here on the 24th this Mark should be here Mark just tonight I think but has everybody do we have to vote on HTH that meeting it's it's very possible possibly do we have a enough if is everybody that's going to be here yeah that's a good point you should go back and review uh if you missed any meetings um and yeah I missed I missed one and so you'll have to be Mullen IED and you're only allowed to miss one I did a Mullen on the one I missed so I can vote on it so if you if you're going to be here and you missed one you better do the Mullen if you've only missed one so I'll check um I'll check the 11th uh June June 11th see if um they were on the agenda then maybe Chris you'll have to be mized yeah let's take a look are are they in the minutes we looking now um I don't think I didn't think I don't see them yet you miss any no I don't see them in there they weren't on the 11 I think I'm good I think for some reason they they weren't on the 11th they have the yeah they skipped a few times they were a handful so I'm good they heard you weren't going to be there so they you know it's funny I thought about it but the problem is Ireland was 6 hours like out in front so uh it would have been about 2: in the morning to have dialed in from uh no not hotel room don't be that hero because I don't want when I'm in Scotland in two weeks I don't want to be that hero all right I'll take a motion to adjourn the meeting move to adjourn motion from Chris all in favor John second all in favor I motion thank you chsw tel media e e