get used to not we're going to start our meeting good evening today is Tuesday March 12th welcome to the chel Conservation Commission meeting uh we are here uh on tele media and uh we're being televised live if you are on uh we have a nice big picture of our colleague Peter Peter spawn on the uh on the zoom on the picture he's uh dialing in on Zoom so we we've got we do have six people on the commission present here today um so um as I said we are on tele media Chelson Tel media we are live so you are being recorded this will be on uh on their site as we go forward let's um start with the report of the planning board liaison Mr Chris lavali from the planning board good evening um so this week we are going to be having our second uh public hearing on the NBTA zoning uh potentially taking a vote on that uh before we start presenting to select board and finance committee um if we don't end up voting this week this meeting it'll be the following meeting that we'll be voting um 191 chelsford 93 brickk and 270 Bill R are all going to be continued to the next meeting and and uh hildr street is going to be purely traffic focused um we just received the updated plans um but we haven't reviewed them and next this coming meeting this week is only going to be focused on traffic okay that's about it okay thanks anything for Chris thank you thank you thanks Chris nice and short okay anybody in the uh audience we have time for Open session for anyone who'd like to bring something up that is not on our agenda if you have something that is of concern for the Conservation Commission nothing okay uh regulatory hearing first one here we have a request for determination of applicability Michael Mazel 26 hoight Drive uh do we have a uh we do legal legal notice Mr chairman pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetland protection act Mass general chapter 131 section 40 and the chood wetlands bylaw chapter 187 the chood Conservation Commission will conduct public hearing room 204 the Chelson town offices on Tuesday March 12th 2024 at 7 p.m. to consider the request for Det termination of pability filed by property owner Michael mazal for proposed work within 100 feet U buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetlands and Inland Bank at 26 hoit drive further identified assessors map 113 Bach 431 lot 42 the project entails demolition of existing retaining wall in poor condition followed by construction of two new retaining walls with stairs removal of the existing shed installation of a new shed new walkway SL patio an irrigation system planting of vegetable gardens native shrubs and ground cover Mr chairman thank you uh for reading that and um do we have a representative from the applicant here right yep come on right up and um why don't you tell us uh why don't you just tell about your project and uh what the approach is if I if I want to remind the commission um this applicant was before us about a year ago just as a as a question on uh on what what the approach should be um so here we are with engineer drawings and uh go ahead all right hey everybody I'm I'm Mike Mast um so yeah here's the here's the everything in plan [Music] view um if you go to the I guess you guys can take a look here but main objective of the project is to install a new new shed and install new two new retaining walls and two new sets of stairs and also um a patio at the top of the at the top of the walls um that's that's the main objective uh you can see it a little clear if you go to the next page in section view you have the uh the existing the existing slope in in Gray and at the top top right of the page in Gray is uh the existing retaining wall that's uh in po Condition it's falling over in certain places and the existing slope is is has some grass in it but it's relatively unvegetated and it's kind of eroding away um so the the objective is to make it make it nicer and retain the Earth better and prevent prevent uh sediment runoff into the the nearby nearby uh Pond which is Russell Mill Pond um the uh I think the following photo has the following one has the photo you kind of see the the wall falling over and the steep slope in need of in need of some work and so I'm uh requesting a negative determination um and I uh you know hope hope you guys uh you know uh will consider this uh as a Improvement to the to the area bordering the pond preventing uh preventing runoff um and just generally improving the the area surrounding the Russell mil Pond okay David do you have uh comments I know I think you've been to the site yes yes I've been there a couple of times um so so just looking at this plan Mike so so the the the red X's are the 25 foot setback yep right so so there is there is a uh a slight incursion encroachment in the 25 foot no disturb um but but I think but I think over overall the this will improve existing conditions or uh at least uh prevent um you know future future deterioration in existing conditions spoke spoke to Mike about a couple of um conditions uh or or additional things to do one one is to just do a um a simple drainage uh system for the shed um where uh we just put in some a couple of gutters I guess draining into a a rain barrel that you can then use in the garden and then and then and then just the other thing was uh to do to do uh a planting do some native plantings of the slope between the top of the slope and uh the the the edge of the water um and which which I think would def definitely be uh an improvement to uh you know existing conditions so I think it's U you know and in in add in addition to standard conditions so I I think this certainly can be a negative determination okay thanks thanks David uh Chris do you want to I'm good you got any questions no I mean I'm good I think this looks good Mark uh I'm I'm little what did you change from last year to this year other than the drawings that's um yeah that's about it I think I added the the shed I uh I want to I want to put the shed there um I think I added a set of stairs um maybe change the layout of the wall a little bit um where is can you tell me where a shed is uh it's at the the bottom bottom oh that's that's hard for me to read sorry yeah that's 10 ft from the edge of the water uh it's at least 10 ft it's about 14 it'll be 14 ft away it it's it's going to be on uh peers not going to be any excavation okay and and just going to be staring things like bicycles and nothing nothing hazardous or no chemicals and the slope on there is a two to1 slope you said the current condition is a 2 to1 slope correct and it's going to be the same consistent or uh in proposed it'll be um it'll be mostly retaining walls there'll be a little slope in between the two retaining walls but it makes it easy for you to maintain it yeah okay no I'm good I'm fine with it John I'm good with it an improvement okay Peter um yeah one question is so the shed I I apologize I can't see the drawing on the small screen is the shed 14 ft from the water it's 14 feet from the top of the bank it's it's even further from the water oh okay and and Dave Coons how far is that shed from the actual water the pond roughly you probably could add another 5T to that yeah so does I I'm just asking this question and I'll let the fellow Commissioners decide or debate but is that our policy to allow sh heads within the help me out here David is it a 25 ft no disturb that applies here well yeah it is it is just nominally a 25 fot uh no disturb setback uh from uh the wetlands uh this um so this does encroach a a little bit into that I I mean the commission did recently um approve a shed for Mr Johnson up on Freeman Lake that was within the 25t notice there I think it was actually a little bit larger than this one I'm not sure but it was it was under the same circumstances where he wasn't going to be storing anything you know dangerous or hazardous right and and I assume that David you recommended to Mike the shed be on peers uh because it's in a sensitive habitat area uh no no no I did not he uh he he he's a PE he came up with that on his own uh but but but but it C it certainly is uh good uh in in the sense that it won't require any excavation yeah yeah okay um good idea Mike thank you no more questions okay so any further discussion any uh this open meeting to the public is there any any public input or any public concern I don't see anything Mr chair I make a motion that we approve this um um you close the hearing first uh I recommend that we um close this hearing motion to close the hearing by Chris Gahan second second by Bill Vines all in favor I I I uh Peter did you just show your hand yes yes okay it's unanimous okay Mr chairman I recommend um now the hearing's closed that we approve the project with a negative U is it three determination sen buffone uh yeah negative3 cor3 deter termination with some with our standard conditions in addition as as we discussed earlier we have some drainage for the shed uh some gutters rain barrel facilitate uh good drainage and then we also have some native plantings on the slope I got one question sir do we need to wave the 25 foot is it within the 25 yes slightly so we should wave that yeah we should yeah you can do that yeah yeah and additionally that we wave the 25t set back because it's on Piers because it's on Piers and this there going to be no adverse environmental impact second second okay motion by Chris second by Bill any further discussion all in favor I I I Peter yes okay thank you very much thank you Mike let you know when the paperwork ready to pick up okay thanks D okay next one is sorry yeah okay 191 Chelson Street um in Casey uh Perera is here representing the applicant this is continued from January 23rd so where are we what are we what are we talking about here hello Casey Ferrer with Howard Stein Hudson um so to be honest we don't have too much of an update as far as site civil goes um right now we're kind of in the the planning process they have a traffic peer review occurring um we have closed out all drainage concerns with DPW I've provided that letter to David um we did get the Wetland peer review back um as of I believe yesterday David and uh they seem to agree with the Wetland line that we have delineated uh they did have some recommendations adding uh the setbacks the local and state setbacks to the existing additions plan um we can certainly do that uh we do show them all on our design plan so they are all there for your review um they just weren't on the existing additions plan and we can definitely add that um I have provided with you the last set um that was provided to planning board um I believe when I did my last presentation uh that is what I actually presented to you even though it wasn't what you received um but I did present because I want to make sure that you and planning uh were looking at the same set of projects so now that I provided that to David so you have that in your file as well so so so um just want to confirm Casey so the most recent revision is the February 6th correct correct so um you guys do have the most recent we are looking at maybe some updates uh for landscape uh planning was a little concerned with uh the size of the trees when we repl them uh you know removing some mature trees and replacing them with younger trees uh smaller caliper um I've reviewed a little bit with my landscape architect and I kind of need to do a little bit more uh he has some concerns about replacing smaller caliper installations with larger caliper installations because they don't take as well and it can stunt their growth um so we kind of want to find a medium and see how we can um satisfy planning board but also make sure that uh the trees grow and flourish so uh beyond that we are awaiting uh the next planning board meeting I believe it's March 27th uh and at which time we'll hopefully have the traffic peer review back and be able to close out planning board in an Ideal World okay David do you have anything to add to this uh no I concerns no no not not not particularly um I I I think the commission could close the hearing tonight um I I would recommend that it be kept open um uh while I start drafting a um an order of conditions again commission members can let me know any special conditions uh particularly related to storm water um that the commission members like included so so that's that's what I would suggest is you know keeping it over keeping it open till the next meeting yeah I would rather see the order conditions before we close the hearing that would be my my my PR bring questions yeah sure uh Peter brought something forward I wasn't aware of uh he sent it to me on the uh if you can help me out this Peter I'm still new learning this with the uh with the wells monitoring Wells there that's something that you uh looked at and kind of recommended for the for the uh not so much as just the uh storm water but the water that comes out of the uh Car Wash uh CU monitoring Wells propos monitoring Wells Peter what can Mark can I you want me to jump in Mark sure I wish you would Yeah Carl I I had a couple of comments um do you want me to just give a super super quick summary of those comments sure okay so starting with Mark's Point um uh hi Casey how you doing hey Peter um the comments I have fall in a couple of the broad categories and we don't necessarily need to go through all of them but the first was as I took a really close look at the design and Casey please stop me if I read the wrong plan okay uh but here's my logic this car wash is uh discharging to the zone 2 wellhe head protection Zone the car wash itself or the site well the site correct oh let me keep going yeah yeah correct me if if I'm not accurate on the engineering side and secondly um there are we're learning that that wax has posos in it which is logical because posos is kind of like Teflon and there is an emerging concern in the environmental Community you know outside of chelsford that car washes might be a source of posos so what Casey and and the applicant have designed is a closed system with a discharge to the sanitary sewer so that's great but what I found was uh I believe Casey on the exit of the Car Wash there are some storm drains to collect any water that might be located there at the exit of the car wash correct and those storm drains are storm drains so they connect to the storm water system on site M and as we know our friend posos but perhaps other chemicals that we don't yet know about uh are highly mobile so my thought is and again if I'm missing something please tell me but but you know when we all go to a car wash a drive-thru when you leave on a busy day there's often a little bit of water on the on the on the ground I mean I know the intent is to dry the car but that water on the ground if it is in fact there presumably contains wax residue and it would be collected and directed to the Storm drink drain system and I think we all understand now that posos isn't really captured by most of the storm water uh treatment systems those treatment systems are primarily designed for other pollutants so the question I had was is there a risk perhaps on a busy day or a rainy day that Trace Amounts of posos could end up into the storm water system and perhaps migrating into the zone 2 Wellhead protection Zone and contributing to the town's P Fox problem so I mean I have some ideas about that but if in fact that is the design I wanted to flag that as something I'd recommend well let me respond real quick so this somewhat came up in the planning board process um and there's a couple things first we have confirmed with the distributor of all the products of the car wash that all products that they use are going to be pfast free um so there isn't a risk of anything getting off the vehicles and getting into the storm drain systems uh and releasing past that way um additionally this car wash is fully automated you cannot leave before the car wash is done most car washes you drive out on your own you go nice and slow so that you can um have the blow dryer below the car off but in this system you are not released until the vehicle is done so there the intention is that there is no residue no water nothing dripping off the vehicle upon its release from the system that that sounds like a really good plan um uh Carl I have a couple of other recommendations on the storm water om andm plan which includes some recommendations on something known as the illicit uh substance discharge list that belongs in the pollution prevention plan you know that's part of the onm plan and there is a placeholder in in the applicant submitt um we could handle that if we could uh come up with a permit condition uh Dave helped me out here that required some sort of documentation of the manufacturer's data to be submitted annually with that on andm report to confirm that somebody hadn't switched in uh PX containing wax makes you're talking about internal product I like what you said Casey but but my thinking is I would think the town would want some Assurance down the road that you know the wax hadn't been changed out yep um so Carl I I don't know how much time you want to spend on this and Dave Coons you and I haven't talked but um I do have a whole bunch of different comments that could either be addressed by modifying uh the onm plan or maybe they could be addressed with perit conditions and I'm not sure which path the commission would like to go tonight well why don't why don't you email those to me Peter um can you do can you do that and yeah and and and and and and Casey by the way you're probably wondering what the heck I'm talking about and I assume David Co you'll decide I assume we could share those with you but there's a couple just just I won't take a lot of time Carl but um there's a couple of things that I would recommend and one one example is the stormwater handbook says the long-term pollution monitoring plan uh should have procedures for avoiding illicit discharges and those procedures are things like Good Housekeeping how do you store material um how do you do routine inspections how do you handle spills you know how do you maintain lawn Gardens and use of fertilizers and the current document the current onm plan that was submitted doesn't provide any procedures for any of these topics and that ties into what we just said about the the wax you know a procedure to make sure you don't have past wax so so Dave you know that kind of thing could be addressed in a permit condition I think or we could give the applicant an opportunity to actually put it in the onm manual because that's where it belongs um well it's really a long-term pollution prevention plan which we did include in the last submission what's that we did include a long-term pollution prevention plan in the last submission it was in addition to the previous onm plans that you've seen right um but Peter I will go back into it and and review for procedures I believe we did put procedures in the latest one um but if we did not we'll add it okay that that that sounds like a good approach yeah and and and Casey and Dave Coons again I'm not sure what process the commission wants to follow but um I think it would be great to let me just say one more thing um and and again Dave Coons I don't know if we require this in our standard order but my thinking is that these onm plans ought to be a standalone document that sits in at the facility um and so in that regard what I'm really recommending is the actual document the actual onm plan and the long-term pollution monitoring plan end up being a standalone document that is there in in the operator's control room um and all this out so it probably would be stronger from the town's point of view to have my list um if everyone agrees put my list of stuff in that onm plan rather than a permit condition and and Dave Coons I'm not sure how to approach that and um right if it's in a permit condition it disappears in a few years yeah uh well unless it's a Perpetual condition um but but but no I think I think it's better to to uh as far as possible handle this in advance Peter so um if if you want want to email those to me um I can forward them to Casey or email them to Casey directly and just CC me yeah you know however you want to handle it it sounds like it sounds like you've you know written these out yeah and again just just just to wrap this up for everybody I don't think what's on my list is crazy crazy talk um we can debate the individual ones but most of it's right from the storm water handbook um and if you could include those references if you could cite those references that would be great yeah I'm not going to do that that's too much time to cite all the references I just read through it and wrote them down I'll let I'll let Casey if if it's going to go to Casey Casey I'll let you he'll know he's familiar with them okay thank you thanks Peter all right then I think um we're at a point where Casey do you have anything else you want to add no but I believe you do have to finish going around the commission to ask if they have anything else so yeah so any more questions no he say what I was going to say when he better yeah yeah do do you have anything else no no okay no Bill I'm good John okay Carl just um kind of jumped over me but oh I thought I thought I started with you sorry oh I jumped up sorry sorry Chris um no I just I just wanted to note that the peer review I thought the peer review was very good from Susan MacArthur and um was good she confirmed the uh you know the uh the um yeah the Wetland lines and um it's good that all that works good so I think from um protecting those those resources good to have the confirmation on the the peer review so it's good I I just did have one question sure who's designing the wall retain them wall don't have a well we have Structural Engineers on our staff but we have not hired that out yet it's it's not going to be a block wall it's going to be a manufactured wall hasn't hasn't been designed yet but you know if you don't want to block wall we can talk about that oh no no I'm just saying it could end up being a block wall with you know tiebacks and not but I'm not a structural engineer I can't design it yeah all right do you do you want to see the plan for the wall no I'm fine no I think they're going to do a good job so Carl one last thing just I think of the block though the the questions from um from Peter flowing into the agent I that's good but I think i' I know I'd be interested maybe others might be interested so I'd have it flow into to Dave then have Dave share those with us because I think we'd all get value out of that yeah yep yep either either Peter you sent them to all of us or send it to David and Hillshire yeah and and and by the way Carl for the record I did send some of these I did send out an email to a couple of us with these comments but I'll I'll make I'll I'll dress this thing up so it's easier okay for for Casey and the applicant to understand what I'm talking about okay so it might take me a couple of days to do that okay all right excent thanks so I Carl yeah I just want to say you know to Casey and and the applicant I mean really appreciate your willingness to work with this commission and I guess the planning board on some of these you know environmental things like like the planting and whatnot so thank you for that thank you y good okay I'll take a motion I think we're continuing for two weeks yeah I I move that we continue to our next meeting on March 26th motion from Chris uh do I have a second second second from Bill all in favor I I Peter says I I see the hand so it's unanimous thank you very much thank thank you Casey appreciate it have a great night guys okay next up we are on continued from the last meeting 93 brick killan road so um I I have uh received I did receive a request for a continuance on that one um pending the applicant's review of the hydro geological study that was submitted so okay there was a request for two we continuance as well okay so we're looking at out two weeks on that y March 26 Peter you have a question yeah um David I I I meant to ask you offline can you just give us a little bit not a lot a little bit more is there there is a hydro Geo study done that's out there that we'll see is that what you're saying that that's my understanding from the applicant yes uh so um I I don't think I have a copy of that uh or it may it may be that um it was actually I believe it was the attorney that forwarded the request so I'll um I'll have I'll I'll clarify with her exactly what it is that they're they're reviewing okay and I I heard through the grapevine that they did find some things in the the testing that was done is that what this report talks about I believe so I believe so okay okay yeah thank you okay um and we don't have a cop we think we don't have a copy of that correct okay all right all right so I take a motion to I will take a motion to continue this for two more weeks to the March 26th Chris so move Mr chairman to continue to our next meeting of March 26th second motion from Chris second from Mark all in favor hi hi hi Peter's hand goes up uh so we're uh we're on there thank you very much and next up we have ten hildr Street and um see Mr goodro and Mr Cowell here so um good evening let's start good evening for the record Brian good with Hancock Associates along with Dave Cowell our senior ecologist at Hancock Associates so between uh last hearing and this evening uh it was requested that we stake out specific things on site and uh conducted a s sidewalk um we did so but yes yesterday y yesterday um with David uh kind of walked him through uh what we found on site uh we did not have an opportunity to fully uh to issue the fully rised plans but uh couple days uh we'll be getting that out to the commission so again thank you for your patience on that um and then I don't know David if you'd like to summarize the the site sure sure um so I think there were uh three uh main concerns that we discussed during the site visit uh the the first one was uh whether or not these the wetlands down here just to the side just to the south of the site um which actually actually aren't on the property but um the buffer zone extends uh into the property whether whether there's a Vernal pool or vernal pools uh in those Wetlands uh you know in the sense in particular whether uh amphibians are using them for breeding um and if so then um then the buffer zone would presumably be at least a portion of the Upland habitat for uh those Critters so I think there was agreement that it looked like there's at least a possibility that uh there could be Vernal pool or vernal pools down in in the Wetland but that uh we we uh it we didn't we we we did a brief uh search for egg masses didn't see any but uh it's early yet so um I think there's agreement that uh you know uh should uh you know keep an keep an eye on it for uh for at least a few weeks to say there was agreement on that so I I I think I'm I'm certainly going to recommend that there be a continuance U that that among one one of the reasons why while we survey for uh you know Vernal pool species uh there um I you know I I I believe I have uh permission from uh the land owners uh to do that but I will you know definitely uh you know reconfirm that with them um second the second issue we discussed uh was um the uh you know the the uh extent of aforestation of the buffer zone and that's that's why I had asked the the that the that the tree line has shown on the the plan be St um I again I think there was agreement that that you know maybe maybe what's shown on the plan really isn't um you know completely representative of what's out there like the actual tree line is probably um you know uh a little bit less extensive than what shown um having having having said that my personal opinion is that you know the buffer zone is still sufficiently wooded and has a a thick enough layer of leaf litter that C certainly you know most of it you know 90% plus of it could be I think would would be good uh Upland habitap verle species assuming that actually there is breeding go of Vernal species going on in uh the Wetland um down here um let me but then but then Rel related to that question was I I mean I I so so you know while I definitely did see you know I think Fair recently cut trees you know fairly recently being in the last you know two to three years I I I I did I mean there are some of those trees um that are in the buffer zone however I can't I can't say that I I really saw evidence of clear cutting of the buffer zone um I I I didn't see any Stomps and and and again there was um uh uh a pretty good uh layer of leaf litter there there there is there is a small section of the buffer zone and and and it's shown on the um the potential nesting site uh map uh or plan that was done you know portion of that is in the buffer zone but you know I want I want to I want to talk about that you know next a after this um in in connection with Turtle nesting uh but anyway so so I um I have brought up here some um some Google Earth photo photos so aerial photos so this is so this is uh showing showing the site uh you see the DAT the date on that is June 2019 um so so the the the buffer the buffer zone to the wetlands actually looks pretty you know pretty well forested um at that time um just going to then uh 2020 um which which was October of 2020 still looks um pretty well forested um in 20 now in 2021 I mean if if it does look like maybe there was some clearing uh up in this area um just sort of going on a qualitative basis I'll uh I'll toggle back and forth a couple of times so that's October 2020 and that's October 2021 so I mean it does look to me like there was some tree clearing it just not it's just not obvious to me that that's in the commission's jurisdiction um I mean you could you you could think you know either either either ask the applicant to further analyze that uh or hire a peer reviewer to to get um you know hopefully maybe a more precise you know analysis this is this is this is River Meadow Brook down here so um it sort of hard to tell the scale from this you know this this says 92 ft so I I think that that's that's the uh that's the vertical and horizontal Dimension so the question is whether whether there was maybe any any clearing done within 200 ft of the um of River Meadow Brook which which obviously was not approved um so um you know I'm not sure will what really to recommend on that I mean this would be I I guess if I guess it would be toward potentially taking some enforcement action if that are if there was an area that was uh cleared in the commission's jurisdiction again I don't think it doesn't look to me like it was the buffer zone it would e it would be flood plane and or Riverfront area how would that affect our current process um well that's a good question as a practical matter as a practical matter you know you might say you want you know uh you know the if it's a violation want the violation resolved before you know making making a decision on uh the the what's before the commission for this filing uh you know it might would you know it might include some restoration MH of the area area um okay so is it possible to get a peer review on this like an aerial uh historical yeah that's possible or or could ask the applicant to you know uh maybe maybe take a deeper dive into this see if get a get a better sense I mean I guess ultimately is how the commission wants to proceed it's pro pro probably you know if if the commission were to hire a peer reviewer to take a closer look at it it would of course be at the a expense this this something very similar was done for chre lumber the Boston Road Site you recall I I I thought that that peer reviewer did a good job so any thoughts on the commission anybody I mean I think the Project's going to need some peer review so I think be appropriate you know yeah okay Peter oh yeah I'd Advocate a a independent peer review I think we're having some challenges in town with losing trees in these buffer zones that are considered by the state as critical flood and habitat regions so I'd Advocate taking a hard look I age with that yeah I see a lot far too many trees I see it every day it's just I mean some are perfectly fine but I it's we're losing a lot of habitat so canopy um is that so how would that look how would that uh move forward well I I'd get a proposal I guess we get a proposal from CI who did the last um and uh you know just just uh make make sure they understand what the commission is uh looking for although again I think it's pretty simple and straightforward and very similar to what was done before how just to be clear how would you articulate that right now how uh and I'm not trying to put you on the spot but sure I understand you know I I I I I I would say uh to to do a review and Analysis of historical data in particular area photos to and and probably probably used with with the um the plans that have been subm submitted showing the delineations of you know the different Wetland resource areas you know try and make a a determination of in in the last few years maybe going back five years whether whether whether there has whether there has been um you know uh clearing you know tree cutting um you know noticeable observable tree cutting in the commission's jurisdiction okay I think that makes sense do you I'm going to look to Brian do you have any reaction or uh yeah so what I would recommend or what I would request is that the scope get passed through us um just so that we can understand exactly what's being asked with CI and then if they want to uh assign pricing to it you know I'll take it back to the applicant and you know we'll go from there we'll have a conversation so so you're asking to see a proposal I'm asking to see the scope but if you want to have CI prized that at the same time that's fine yeah I mean that's that's the way I would like to do it is is um to um get get a a proposal from them that you can review and comment on if that's that's okay everybody else okay with that I think that that's what I was hearing from the commission so um I'm thinking that we'll take that as an action going forward okay um I think that's a good so just to kind of state I think what we're trying to to accomplish with this is to create a baseline of of the site um yes might be going back four or five years but um if there's something that needs to be remediated then we want to at least understand that that's the situation we what what we choose to do based on that may change but we need to understand what's changed Peter yes uh yeah just a quick question um and and Dave Coons you can help me um I think I'm correct in that our commission has jurisdiction or some within you know 200 feet of the of the river and 100 ft from the the wetlands and you know whatever um but the whole parcel is um under review by natural heritage correct because of the habitat value and the fact it's on the state habitat perhaps M um my question is would this tree analysis be the whole site Dave Coons well I I I I I I think um yeah just nominally the whole site would be reviewed but the commission is really only looking for any alteration of work in its jurisdiction um yeah I natural heritage would conceivably have an interest over the whole site um and and whether um anything was uh you know done um even outside the the commission's jurisdiction but you know the commission only has legal jurisdiction within buffer zones Riverfront areas and flood planes as well as Wetlands yeah and the reason I ask is does anyone know if natural heritage looks at trees when they do their analysis Upland trees that are outside of our jurisdiction well well I I do know from experience that yeah any any any proposed cutting needs to be reviewed by natural heritage I mean I what about historic cutting are they going to be seeking this data I I I I don't know I mean I've i' I've I have um you know in in the past had occasion to um you know let let uh natural heritage know about these kinds of you know activities I've I've I've never ever received any indication though from them that they're interested in something this small okay John yeah I'm looking at the plan here we got a clearly Mark 200 foot how's it overlay here this is what I can't understand well yeah that's we that's what we one of the things we be asking the peer reviewer to do yeah that's it yeah a 200t line here can't we pick up a 200t [Music] line you guys are the surveillance um I'm sorry what what was the question you want us to pick up clearly marked 200 foot correct okay and we're showing tree line and we're showing do do we have something that shows there there was trees cut here so we're showing existing conditions the survey was done back as a part of our anrad which would have been 2021 uh around that neighborhood so we we are showing tree line as it appears at the time of the survey in 2021 correct yeah so that's right around the possible time of the so so that's the that's the squiggly line John the tree line yeah I can see the line SK Mark right here 200 ft yeah these double triangles of the riverfront area mhm and this is and this is the flood plane um so I think the area in question please correct me if I'm wrong David would be that that cleared area between the 200 ft and the other tree line uh say that again that is all cleared when we walk that I think you're talking about this area yeah just very roughly but I I can't be any more precise than that okay Johnny you I I I'm just looking at this plan saying from the picture I saw I didn't see T cot that's that's why we I think we need some further review okay can't make any definite conclusions let's get let's get some some data some engineering analysis and data so okay so that's the proposal just to have a peer review David will work that you'll get a proposal to the uh peer reviewer get that a copy of that to to the applicant to Brian and um all right and so you were going through your yeah so so that was the second thing yes the the third three right the third the third thing uh the third issue we discussed is uh the uh possible uh habitat or nesting uh area um in the buffer zone which is this I don't know if can can can you see the the U Mouse right here so it's it's it's this portion of this potential nesting area that's in the buffer zone um now um this this is being of course under the wetlands protection act in Misa this is being reviewed by natural heritage um actually the whole the whole site is and um I guess you're still waiting for their approval I mean what's what's the language there yeah they basically instructed us on the deriv we need to make that we will make in the next couple of days which will reissue to you guys as well um but verbally accepted all okay so so and then and then under the Wellings protection act the the presumption is that you know whatever natural heritage approves then then uh means that there's no uh short or long-term adverse impacts to rare species habitat um uh which is which are the performance standards under the wetlands protection act however there's there's the town bylaw the the local bylaw which which is of course separate from the wetlands protection act and and the bylaw explicitly states that you know uh the the commission is required to protect rare species habitat um you know uh which which actually is is more than just the the gray the gray area but but the gray the gray area is um you know the the high the highest function and functioning uh function in values um of the rare species habitat and and of course it it would it would only be uh the portion of this gray area that's in the 100 foot buffer zone which again I'm Circle I'm circling right there um so so but but um the the the the Wetland the town bylaw regulations don't have any performance standards um for the protection of rare species habitat um but but I guess um at this point I I I I would say that I'm not or I say I'm not comfortable saying that there's nothing the commission could do Under the local bylaw with with respect to uh protecting this portion of the nesting area in the buffer zone I I I think it's a matter of getting a legal opinion you know what to what extent does the commission have legal authority to uh protect this this area or to require mitigation for it um so that so my my recommendation would be that the the commission you I guess first consult Town Council then you know if Town Council were to say you know need special counsel yeah not his area of expertise right okay right I I think that makes sense to me we should be really clear on this and um get a get a a good solid legal opinion on it and um and and that would be on where what jurisdiction we have uh yes um what what legal Authority does the commission have to protect this area uh or to require mitigation um for uh alteration of it and and and again I think I think that that's that's in isolation that's completely independent of whatever the Wetland protection act might require because this is the bylaw yeah that's my opinion right yeah okay uh Peter you got your hand up yeah just a quick question David and I I realize I should know this and I don't um I've read our time bylaw but I don't remember is our town bylaw that you're quoting uh does it say habitat or does it say endangered species habitat no it says a habitat and and I want to make that distinction does natural heritage only look at endangered species or are they looking at all habitat values in their review well they're looking at habitat values of the rare species habitat so so yeah so my point is those are entirely different things and and we can talk I don't know how you want to address that but you know natural heritage is doing a review we're relying on their review but they're only looking at rare species I think what you're saying David is our town bylaw requires us to look at all habitat not just rare species well that's that yeah I didn't explicitly say that but yeah that's true um and and certainly the commission is well aware on another project that the commission um is has asked for and um and and is being given a compensatory Turtle nesting area MH right so but and it's not and it's not a rare Turtle right correct right I mean I think that's what Peter's trying to yes and and so this does add you know an an an additional level of you know re review and you know decision making in my op yeah so so in other words in other words Our Town bylaws that were passed in in the in the past by town meeting specifically call for our commission to look at habitat not just endangered species habitat correct yes that is correct all right I just I mean that's important distinction in my mind because natural heritage is not looking at everything it's upon us to look at whatever it is they're not considering right but I but I think the point is is that there are conceivably different levels of performance standards for uh rare species habitat and non- rare species habitat correct okay but again this is why you've been advocating our commission I I think I have this right please correct me but because of all that I think you've been advocating that this commission have a independent Wildlife study to guide our decision making is that yes um you know as as as I've looked at the site more um uh and uh have have St studied this this map I I think I think this you know based on the conditions out there I think this is I think this is a pretty reasonable uh estimation of uh where Turtles would be nesting if they are nesting in the buffer zone so I I'm I'm at this point I think I'm comfortable proceeding on the Assumption yeah that there are rare turtles nesting here and and again that's it's another you know request for clarification from Town Council but I think let's just assume that there are rare turtles nesting here that's coming from the applicant's own you know submission anything else Peter um I have some other comments on this project but that's all for now on the wildlife part so David your recommendation is that we make a request to our Council for um a a reading I guess yes and and and I I draft the the specific questions you know more more detail and talking here but on our on our uh our jurisdiction of this yeah what what the commission's legal Authority for addressing our's concerns all right so we're going to try to get that resolved and we obviously we're going to try to get that an answer quick yes yeah we don't want that to go Carl Carl important point though don't we want an attorney familiar with with Eco stuff yes yes which may or may not be um Our Town Council I I don't know the answer to we're we're on the same page yep okay thank you I mean this is pretty much in the bug dust so you need an expert yep bug dust yeah okay um that that's all I have to say for that's all you have to say where are we going here um any more questions from I have a question um based on your sidewalk yesterday I would like to I mean we haven't been out there for three years I like to do a a sidewalk based on the difference in where the trees were cut or possibly cut I'd like to take a look at it so just to refresh my mind I don't know if anybody else El is interested yeah we we talked about it last meeting and I realized today that we didn't get there didn't make it happen but um maybe we can schedule that in the next week or so um I I'm seeing a lot of nodding here I know Peter you're back in town in the next day or two is that right yeah yeah would be great um maybe Saturday um you going to the cape Chris not not um not every week yet okay we'll see we'll we we'll figure out a Saturday might be okay Saturday morning not good for me until noon okay yeah me too very early um maybe 12:00 Johnny or maybe Sunday I can do it early Saturday early Saturday till like s yeah oh I don't think we'll get Peter that early early Saturday I can wait okay let's 7 Saturday seven Works John you're up at 5 here yeah I'm good for seven all right uh would the that be an issue with the homeowner uh we'll check okay all right Brian if you can you can just let me know um uh we'll we'll organize that Saturday morning at 7 I have another question that doesn't uh it's not concerning the wildlife but there's been a couple questions uh I've seen some interest in the septic designs you have some septic tanks that are in the driveway people are questioning whether that's an issue or not and also the leeching fields can you have get some information for us on the when the water goes through the leing fields is that water considered clean when it goes into the ground you know I mean yes it's cuz I think the septic systems are an issue because the aquaair right there yeah so if you can you don't have to do it right now but if you want okay so your specific question is whether or not thetic system whether the tank in the driveway is an issue or also the the function of leeching field and when that water enters the ground how it's going to affect or not affect the aquifer whether it comes up clean is it considered clean when it's comes out of the pipes into the ground sure just so they have a better understanding of how that's going to how that works so I can give a a little presentation on that just kind of how affluent flows through the system the approach to the design the secondary treatment that's going to be proposed because it's in the aquafer Protection District right because I think people have concerns that the the septic tanks they're going to be large septic systems over the aquifer whether that's going to affect that M at some point if the system fails down the road Road y think we have an understanding of the whole thing yeah all governed by Title 5 it's very clear in regulation yep Peter uh I'm putting on my environmental engineer hat here the real issue I see with septic systems on the zone two Wellhead protection area is chemicals like posos that is in Flor wax and again I'm not sure what our commission's jurisdiction is but since we're talking about septic to me the issue is we no one can control what a homeowner dumps down the drain and I'm I'm actually working on another project where they have determined that the wax on the Shelf at at lows today has posos in it so the problem with a septic that I see being on top of the well system is we can't control what the homeowner dumps down the drain and and to your point bill um some of these pollutants do attenuate or dissipate through the soil and become not a pollution problem but other chemicals like posos last forever are highly soluble in groundwater and they travel long distances so again our commission's job is protecting of groundwater I don't know if we have jurisdiction over the the septic system or not but we are supposed to be looking at contamination of the groundwater at least and it's going to seep any any junk is going to seep through these leech Fields into the groundwater any soluble material so I don't know what analysis we're going to end up with here but that is the concern um that I have and I think you'll find others that study this kind of thing have the same concern okay good good points good points John is the 200 foot buffer clearly marked in the field yes no but it can be before Saturday that'd be helpful okay we can walk in there and see where a 200 foot River fund is and we can determine at that time okay okay Chris um we we received um a number of emails from a Butters and yeah I thought it'd be important for us to address those concerns I mean there certainly some of the things we touched on already as far as brutal pools and natural heritage habitat and water quality and flooding but I think it'd be good to make sure that we we hear from those and in a minimum maybe we can at least summarize the content of the emails that we've received yeah we have covered some of the issues I I'm seen some of the folks in the in the audience here we have covered um we've talked about tree canopy I know that was an issue um we're not resolved you know that's that's a question that we we have and and one of the residents has that question there's concerns with with water and flooding and the aquafer um I don't know the flooding part um I know there's been flooding there recently um but I don't know if that's really going to affect especially with the change by eliminating the was it lot lot five or six or whatever the one that was yeah lot four so I'm not sure how much impact there is there there's an erosion concern um that came up um and we've talked about the the boat and the well we haven't really talked a lot about the issue of the items that are sitting on the property that are possible pollutants and it's not clear to me again sort of similar to Peter's discussion about um the pollutants you know what what what jurisdiction we have on some of the the material that's sitting there the boat the trailer um there was a trail an RV trailer that was there that was that somebody lived in at some point um what am I missing anything else that was in those I think that was that was probably good list list yeah um so I don't know David do you have any thoughts or how we might want to go forward with some of these questions um well well let me let me ask you so we we we got a number of letters u we just I'm not sure I want to read through them all um I I think I got the gist of most of them there I'd like them to be as part of the public record I think um that's normal procedure yes sure so we want to make sure so let me just read off there was one from Linda Carney um at 17 hildr there was one uh actually two emails from Justin Johnson 26 hildr and one from christe and Paul wood at 16 hildr and those are all in the last few days we had some previous ones um and I might be missing some but we Linda also sent in December in November and Marcy comto all the way back into October there was one and there was one from Ruth Luna um all the way back in September so um we can they've been sent to us we can make sure that all of them are part of the record well and certainly you know a number of the residents are here tonight certain we ask ask them you know for you know those any continuing concerns or new concerns and you know whether they feel they've been addressed at least to some extent tonight or at least we're going after them yes yeah Peter yeah I'm I'm sorry to keep jumping in everyone um just a thought and maybe we're not there yet um the flooding that in is in Justin communication with some photos I think that flooding is outside of our jurisdiction I think our jurisdiction is limited to the current FEMA flood maps which we know are way out of date so so that's that's the flooding issue and my thought is um I think we need to know if that flooding is coming from River meow brook or the vernal pools and the wetlands which is kind of our Bailey wi or if that flooding has to do with runoff from higher Upland you know washing down over the property I'm wondering if our engineering Talent at DPW could be has been or could be asked to take a look at at whether it's coming from General drainage uh County Drainage they like to call it um as I've learned so that be one recommendation and secondly quickly on regard to this contamination you know we may or may not have authority to ask for contamination studies but I think our department of health has that legal Authority and requirement and I will say from what little I know of the site the the things like the demoed trailer and the old boat and the reports of you know truck maintenance and whatnot those are all in the environmental world considered something that needs to be looked at if you're trying to protect a water supply and so I'm not quite sure how our commission approaches that because we have the mandate to protect groundwater and we know stuff is going to wash into our jurisdictional area if there is anything there right so maybe we need to talk to the Department of Health a little you know really understand where they're at on all this okay thank you David did you have something I was um you know I I I do have to admit that uh I I wasn't looking at you know the junk um uh when I was at the site yesterday um I was I I was kind of focus on other things but I I I I would certainly you know suggest to the commission at you know the site visit on Saturday probably PL to do this anyway see if you can make some kind of assessment of of whether the um that junk trash debris is in the commission's jurisdiction and and if so you can I certainly ask that it be removed okay but but but again David it's not removal that I think is of interest it's whether there's any residual contamination like a boat you know my boat holds 30 gallons of gasoline if the boat sits there for a long time I know my boat would develop a leap I'm well I that's uh I think uh I think that's probably then a 20 a phase 121e which which which I think Town Council correct me if I'm wrong has already said that that the town does not have legal authority to require okay that's not what I thought the letter said I thought it said the planning board didn't have authority but I could be wrong okay well I could be wrong that's a question to the planning board it um I think I I listen I think there's a new there's an important Nuance that maybe we don't want to spend our time on but my what I understand and I might be wrong so I need we need to talk to to the health department my understanding is the health department believes that there needs to be evidence of contamination and and I used to do this for a living in the environmental World old boats and and and and people seeing truck maintenance going on in a halfhazard way and a trailer demolished on site without consideration of whether the contaminants in that trailer and that junk pile are all evidence of potential for contamination and what the what the 21e rules what the normal what's normally done in these sites is once there's that evidence of a potential you don't go look at it because you can't see the stuff you get a trained expert to come out and take some samples it's not expensive and if there's a problem usually all that happens is you got to dig up a little bit of contaminated dirt and then you're clean okay usually it's not a big deal unless you leave it alone and it washes into the water or the groundwater so David maybe we can look back at that at that uh note from the Town Council on 21e and um see what we can do there but I I I'd like to see us get and and we'll look at this on Saturday as well but I I take Peter's point that it's not just get rid of the stuff that's there it's that we can see but get rid of uh make sure that we have uh clean soil for the water okay um I'd like to ask if there's anyone if there's any more questions from the commission uh if we would like to open it up to the public we as I said we did get your letters um so we've got those concerns I think we're addressing the concerns um through our various actions going forward but I'd be very happy to let anyone else come up and speak either to underscore something or uh just make sure please you you know the drill state your name and your address wood 16 Hill Street I know you said you got my um letter of concern there which I appreciate you you know reading and taking the fact and mention some of the B these sections of the bws i i cited in there I appreciate that but now also appreciate the fact that I feel like I'm getting feedback um you went out and looked at the veral you know talked about possible vernal pools and I I don't think these could I just to give you these pictures that pass around this was in October I dated them you know did some things um showing some you know salamanders um some frogs just this was late October you know leaves on the ground just there is life in those pools there's Abundant Life I I can I live at 16 like I said just it's deafening in the spring you know um and the other thing I thought of Interest I want to add um these actually I presented to uh the planning board I only have a few copies might look a little odd you know I hope you understand my point um This was um the top of Feld Street um there was a single family home is now 9795 Hilder Street it's a large duplex at the top of Hilder street right behind his house is Nate who isn't here tonight when Nate Mo moved in he couldn't see that single family home very similar slope prior to what that grade is behind those four and five they removed all the trees built a very large duplex if you look through the pictures he spent $10,000 to immediate that problem because once they removed all the trees all that roof line all that driveway diverted all the water down thing he floods he still he'll never get he said he'll never solve it he he can control it now um I just have that same fear you strip those four and five down to the the bvw and with Lawns they're just going to rush water it's going to rush right into that bvw and change it forever that's just you know so if you pretend Nate's house is the bvw that's what's going to happen you know um that's I just want you know you know point of Interest sort of so that's a lot of water it sure is it sure it is yeah um yeah you tell I feel Nate's a great guy has three young kids I mean you know he's always working in his yard and um he has a birthday party on Saturday if you want to go um um but that's my concern like I said I'm sorry what number is that U he he lives at number four so when you go if you go there Saturday you look to the left the first house on the left the you're going to see that big Granite piling he built okay um and that you can see the slope of that yard which is going to be very similar to slope behind four and five you strip all that land behind and make Lawns it's going to rush into the BBW and just devastate it but when when did this flooding start did this start recently after they built the duplex Bernard yeah no no this is no this is Boston Road Bera Road when you go down Hilder Street he Nate's the first house on the left the duplex is on B rer Road that's when you look at the pictures you see the back of it that's B rer Road up the front of it yeah so they stripped all that land you like I said very similar duplexes and and the grade is not that it's probably very similar to the grade when you go out there look at do your sidewalk you're going to see the grade goes right down to the to the pools okay and it's going to be the same kind of thing you're going to get a rush of water I mean that you know it's going to you know I think the burden of proof is for them to prove how that's not going to happen you know but but but this flooding didn't happen before no once he stripped all the trees he couldn't see that house the single family house I will tell you he couldn't see it when I moved in were that many they knocked down the house built that huge duplex took out all the trees in the backyard and put a nice lawn in all that you know roof line gutters driveway diverts all the water put the lawn ince yeah they did to put it twice but and so I'm just saying that's a concern just consider that's all how it's going to affect the BBW really thank you thank you Mr that was an older Ranch House wasn't it the existing yes yes is it the same Builder no no it was hello hi I'm Christy wood from 16 HR Street um and I know we sent a letter in and I just wanted to point out and I know some of these things were already pointed out by Peter tonight do that you can do your own no I no I'm good no no I'm good good good um sorry now I just got a little thrown off here oh it's okay um sorry I got a little thown off thank well we did look up some of the bylaws in tempsford and in the letter I know it mentions it and that it does deem that the the uh commission does have the ability and the right even to protect the Wetland and the bvw um I'm having trouble locating it right now but um in that letter I do I did want to say that we did go through the byw and find those areas you know hoping to be of help for you to um know that you do have that right to do that um also in November I sent in a letter myself and I don't think that it was on the permanent record just in case it's not um but I wanted to bring up that first I wanted to thank you for your time and consideration um given the proposed project for 10 HR street that is over the town aquafer and would involve work in the buffer zone to the Border bordered bordering vegetated Wetlands is a great concern of contamination of toxins into the town drinking water according to the D um CE CMR 10.55 the bordering vegetated Wetlands the wet Meadows the marshes the swamps and bogs um bordering vegetated wetlands are likely to be significant to public or private Water Supplies to groundw supply and to flood control to storm damage prevention to prevention of pollution and for the protection of fisheries and the wildlife habitat the soils and plants of the bordering vegetated Wetlands remove or detain sents nutrients such as nitrogen and phosphorus and toxic substances such as heavy metals compounds that occur in runoff and flood waters um some nutrients and toxic substances that are detained in the year for years rather in the plant plant root systems or in the soils and others are held by the plants during the growing season and released as the plants decay in the fall and winter the latter phenomenon delays the impacts of nutrients and toxins until the cold weather period when such impacts are less likely to reduce water quality um bordering vegetated wetlands are areas where groundwater discharges to the surface and where under some circumstances surface water discharges to the groundwater so the profusion of vegetation in bordered bordering vegetated Wetlands acts to slow down and reduce the passage of flood waters during the peak um periods of Flow by providing temporary flood water storage and by facilitating water removal through evaporation and transpiration and this process reduces Downstream flood crusts and resulting damage to private and public property so during dry periods the water retained in bordering vegetated Wetlands is essential to the maintenance of the base flow levels in rivers and streams which in turn is important to the protection of water quality and Water Supplies so I just wanted to say that this kind of feeds off of what Peter was saying um you know about the potential contaminations that might already be there on the property and the fact that if some of these plants and vegetation are Disturbed that might be doing its job you know as they're supposed to um this could release and become a big problem so with that said I would like to request that the commission to the commission that any necessary specific studies or testing regarding plants and roots to ensure that there will not be any toxins released into the town our prefer if plants or soils are removed or or disturbed will be done as an independent study and that's all thank you okay thanks I we did receive that one I missed that in my list okay yes thank you very much thank you hi hello Linda Carney at 17 Hilder and 19 Plum and I'm here just to offer a few comments on what was said tonight I really appreciate that you are addressing the canopy because that's important to me but tonight um just a few points of clarification regarding the um Justin Johnson who was enable to be here tonight CU he teaches that was Lot current Lot Number Four that he showed you underwater you there seemed to be a question as to what that where that flood I'm still confused about that so let me uh so that's for hildr NOP it's Lot Number Four at 10 hildr was so it's propo the proposed the proposed current Lot Number Four from just that Justin who are you asking about the property at for Hilder street I'm talking about Lot number 10 with the proposed current building site Lot number four so so this is lot this is lot four right now the proposed lot floor four so so what so what flooding in these photos is on loot for when Justin sent in the pictures of the flooding what Justin sent in yeah he sent that on last week okay let me on the 6th we have I think there were videos on that too if I'm not mistaken there were let me bring that up yeah this separate from house number four okay okay so that's not not in that email um yeah was his uh okay March 6 yeah oh it looks sideways I don't think that's the right email though David um it was um March 6th that he sent it oh okay so he sent one on March 10th but also on March 6th so he sent a couple of videos on the 6th and let me I'll open the photo first so Mrs Carney you're saying that this picture here is what would be lot four four the current on the on the new proposal wow lot five on the old proposal okay that whole section was taken right there at that area and this is these are just recent I believe yes did this month I think he refers to two separate weekend storms and and this and this is a new phenomenon yes which which started after after again what what H what construction or what new development not because of what's happening at well possibly because of what's happening at the top of the street at house 4 hildr this is lot for right at 10 Hildreth right and it's could be just the extra rain it could be the runoff it could be the backup from the the Vernal pool area it could we believe it's because of all the trees that have been cut okay so this so so I think the the new development was 95 and 97 Bill R correct which which which is this right here um that's the backyard that has the flooding at Four number four so this is so this is four I think yep yes um and that so and that that that shows flooding as well and the next house down is the McMasters who have been having to sandbag their Breezeway and their garage because of water coming in since they changed the single family to the duplex at the top of the street well I mean that's that really is a perfect example of what's not supposed to happen with all of with all of our new storm water bylaws and regulations uh so it just and yet it does it's it's a mystery how that could have happened but okay anyway all right can I should I go to my next Point okay please keep things moving thank you um as I drove out of my driveway to come to this meeting tonight they were driving a truck that had a flatbed and a boat being moved tonight so you may not see that boat on Saturday but I believe there's more than one there so you'll see some but not the one they move today and as regarding the phase one study I believe the lawyers attention was drawn to the fact that it was not the planning board or the cult of the conservation commission's baileywick but that the Board of Health did have the right to request the phase one study that's my notes and I went back over to the meeting that the lawyer spoke so I'm pretty sure about that and when you go on Saturday would you please be so kind as to take a look visually separate from the aerial photos because there has been additional tree cutting in the last 18 months on that property and if you look at the ziggly the squiggly lines that I understand are National Heritage protected tree areas some of them are just totally vant so please take a look at that okay thank you so much thank you very much thank hi I'm Jeff Carney I live at 17 hildr Street and just just um Justin Johnson as who lives down at the end of Hilder Street asked us to make a comment on the flooding um he's concerned about loss of his uh of the usage of his land because of flooding and he also mentioned that trees are dying because of the flooding so there's going to be a loss of more trees and for my part out in front of my house I've had to add gravel alongside hildr Street which is a very narrow street because of the flooding has been that's been washing out the side of the uh roadway and um guess that's about all I have to say tonight okay thank you yes sir Chris Lali planning board leaz on um just wanted to clarify that the uh legal council um letter to the planning board is attached to our minutes uh for tomorrow's agenda or the tomorrow's agenda um and it was specifically to um our inquiry to the the legal council was specifically about whether the planning board could require a phase one study or a turtl nesting habitat study um and legal uh council's opinion was that we cannot um require that and that our decisions cannot be based on that um but that is so was narrow to the planning board yes okay y thank and we can I believe we can also not require or request it of the board of health either okay so you have a question the planning board cannot request it TR to jump in Chris Chris and Carl we we can talk later about this but once again I'm going to put it on my environmental engineer hat our commission has the responsibility to protect groundwater there is no way we can protect groundwater if we don't have the ability to request these contamination studies and that's a bigger issue than this meeting but I just want to say that on the record we need that's not just a 10 Hill hild issue yes yeah I I just wanted to clarify that the uh opinion was narrowly focused on the planning board's jurisdiction to request that and and and I would I would like to I would just like to add for the record I went back and looked at the planning board regs I'd like everyone to remember the planning board has to issue something called an aquafer protection permit if you don't know what that is check our bylaws it's only one page and that bylaw describes things like doing contamination studies and Hydro Geo analyses to figure out if any contamination might reach the wellfield and so again this is out of out of scope of our commission but the planning board can't possibly determine an aquifer protection permit without the scientific data to know if the project is going to affect our drinking water and therefore we I think as a commission need to rely on both the health department and the planning board to do the oal protection thing uh and of us can do that if we don't have the data so actually to Peter to your point that decision was specific to the planning board in the subdivision Control process it was not related to the aquafer protection special permit or the site plan review which we were not in that stage yet in the planning board it's specifically a narrowly focused subdivision Control process even more narrow than yes so while we may not be able to request it in the subdivision Control process it is likely that we would be able to request it later in the special permitting process but we haven't even gotten to that point yet thank you for that clarification that would make life easier for us all yeah the the planning board's purview in the subdivision control uh process is extremely limited okay Chris thanks very much thanks Peter for your jumping in there okay sorry sorry to get out loud but I've been spending a lot of time on this yeah that's fine that's fine that's good okay so uh we are at a point where I think uh I don't see any more people in line uh I'm assuming there's no one online that's uh besides our friend Peter um so I think we're ready to U move forward with continuing the hearing I'm presuming two weeks uh well but I but I think we need maybe a little clarification of what can we have in two weeks so can you have the revi fully revised engineer and and of course they have to be peer reviewed by BPW I don't know if we can have that back in two weeks but um so I would request a continuance for two weeks because I think there's a number of topics that were discussed tonight that at a very minimum we'll be able to you know get some clarity on okay yeah although although maybe not definitively I'm thinking in particularly pools I don't know of two weeks correct but but I guess there's no harm in continuing for two weeks might just have to say you know have can for another two weeks yeah that's fine so um we're planning to hopefully visit the site on Saturday morning 7 a.m. yeah and we'll um if you don't have my email I'll send you an email Brian just so you can um uh we can organize that and make sure that the homeowner is okay with that okay okay um we are looking at I'm just trying to summarize some of the things um we're looking at a peer review um uh with CI uh and you're going to chase that uh David what else am I missing here um the plans that we just talked about yeah do continue veral pool surveying um and trying to get an opinion from Town Council some kind of an opinion yeah and then staking the tree uh 200 foot 200 foot 200 foot Riv what am I missing do we want to have a conversation with the Department of Health about you know 21e type contamin where they what their thinking is um we can do that Peter if you want to do that we can have that conversation it start with the Department before we go to the board does that make sense yeah I think so okay okay yeah I think we I think we just want to understand how these pieces fit together yep and it's again that's not specific only to ten hrth I think we've seen enough other uh applications that that same question keeps kind of coming up here so yeah I I don't know if it's appropriate to talk about one property but you're right it ComEd everything we've done in the last year I think it's more of a generic conversation as opposed to specific to to this application because we're seeing this in a number of uh applications okay I'll take a motion then I think um for moving this hearing continue to the 26 yeah move that we continue Mar 26 so move by Chris second by John all in favor I I thank you for your time Peter thank you very much and thank you to all the residents who came out tonight and all your all your good input and uh concern thank you okay I think that is the end of our regulatory [Music] um agenda well we got 270 U I think we'll have to continu um's did request I did receive a request for a continuance on that one yeah so I'll move that we continue to70 Road out two weeks until March 26th you have a question Chris I I don't know I know we not going to discuss it um but I want everyone I think I can say this can I Carl just an update uh there has been recent communication on the D haswa website uh where uh D has asked the 270 applicant to do some additional testing to justify their downg gradient property status request and the applicant has submitted a letter to DP saying that they believe they shouldn't have to do anymore because the contamination is limited to the septic and I don't think our peer our uh subcommittee uh certainly did not reach that agreement that potential contamination is only from the septic I think what our subcommittee determined and our peer reviewer determined is we don't know where the posos contamination is coming from so Peter I I I I think that's probably we should stop there um we're not having a a a hearing uh discussion but I I that's all public information so um that's fine public yeah and that's the end of it just wanted members to know there's yeah you know another chapter in this uh okay so we have a uh a motion to continue the hearing from Chris to March 26 and second from Mark so the he uh all in favor I the hearing is continued uh to March 26 this is for 270 Bill ricka Road okay now we are through our regulatory session um next is the 35 brick kilan road yeah nothing nothing new at a report on that um I think I as I think I mentioned to you Carl you know the commission could consider uh recording the enforcement order you know with the registry of deeds that that's a some kind of a significant step it is yeah I'm not sure I'm ready quite ready yet for that but I think that's a good um thing to keep in mind um it is dragging on a long time though this uh this has been I fet when we first had that in front of us it's been a year has it been a year yeah yeah the enforcement order was issued in May of last year I believe well I think well I mean forward this we mean business this what's going to happen next might be something that jump starts it let's see what Town Council says let's let's see I mean we're not getting anywhere let's see what we can do from a legal enforcement you know what uh so what do you suggesting that we would ask we get get opinion from Town Council what can we do at this point what are our options because we want to take some action we don't want to just let this thing drag along and do nothing David's suggestion was to record the enforcement order I'm not sure well let's let's get from Town Council whether that's his preferred course of action first or not let's look at the options that might be one of the options but that's U you know that's we got to weigh that with other options David can you make that request sure sure okay including recording the enforcement order and what else okay going going to court I'm sure that's another option yeah I mean you got C action you got we have been more than more than uh patient we have so uh yeah when we're coming up on a year that that's I'm I'm not happy about that okay anything else on on that on your continual in business okay Land Management update warrant poll um we will talk about the CR at the next meeting um hopefully we'll have a uh hopefully we'll be there we're almost there um I want to let you guys know the hay is gone from the barn it's gone it's been delivered to the uh town uh uh Compost Facility at uh Sunny Meadow so it's all done so the barn is looking good it's it's cleaned out Steve mayot really pushed that it's looking good next on the agenda is I just want to add Carl that um so I don't I don't I don't know if if I mentioned this to all commission members though that uh after Martha p passed away oh that um the U said on the on the commission's web page that donations could be made in her name to the commission so the commission received a total of $800 um in donations in Martha's name and uh Carl Carl just sent out thank you notes to All of the the people who good yeah good yep very nice update on the coolest site the coolest property Mr John sson like I say I I said earlier everybody wants the 6 and 1 12 acres you know and we're trying to keep that open agriculture uh we've been getting a lot of push back uh in just little ways and it's people are asking questions can the town actually do this I said to Paul Paul you get to check with Town Council and see if you can rent this it was acquired with CPC money it's meant for Agricultural and conservation can we let Western Nurseries start a lay down yard okay can we let the other people that want the wildlife thing can we let them uh they get an extensive plan yeah I mean a building uh they're looking for two acres of the property and the property is not all that conducive okay to what everybody wants okay so the the town is cleaning it up yeah uh the house is ready to come down I guess uh that's supposed to happen in the next couple of weeks yeah that's what they said but it's I think there's some legal issues okay that got to be clarified and the town's got to do the survey and map out the wetlands so all these people aren't grasping that straws to where they want to place a laydown yard yeah and David you you've made a request for a wetland Serv yes yes so um including the lot on the other side yes yes on on Hunt Road so I believe she was out doing the um uh the ones on Pine Hill yesterday uh I I asked her if if she could do the one on Hunt Road as well under the original proposal she said basically maybe but she get back to me so haven't heard from her okay um so what what we need is clarification that we're now going to start Leasing Property that the town owns the private entities well we do that now in other places but we do not agricultural right agricultural they have the green houses they have Phil compost dump okay Henry's got the hay fields at the end of the street okay these apostles that they want to invest $3 $400,000 on building Pickle bar courts okay requires parking pavement plans you got to have the plan of the land before you even start any of this conversation I mean Casey did a beautiful job on the thing for the uh the animals right and he's just going off of town GIS he's not going off what we actually come up with so there's a lot of people that want to put a lot of stuff in that one piece of land and King Phil's been doing his trails and he's doing a great job uh they've cut down some trees uh it looks a lot different up there sure does was there today and I looked and it looks a lot different and it's going to lot it's it's going to look good in the end but the end result is are we going to have a field of shrubs and trees that from Western Nurseries uh we're going to have a an animal hospital them are all legal questions yep I I I don't I don't think we can answer them no no that's that's and CPC the community preservation act has requirements that has to be understood and and either meet it or if you don't meet it then well like the pet cemetery yeah no Paul came R don't told me you can't have a pet you can't have a any type of cemetery with money from CPC okay okay so what we're going to need is clarification before this is getting blown out of the the water okay in my opinion thanks John thanks you um the petet the uh the only other thing I wanted to add on Land Management um we have uh we're still chasing Oxbo on some things um and uh Theus um I still have to spend some time with um costs on that one I haven't done that yet um I did meet with the um NBA guys last week at Russell Mill on Saturday and um they've made an offer to fix the roof on the shed this is the shed on the front lot up by the parking area and um they said they've got some ability to make that happen so I'm going to connect with Phil on this because um that's the what we call the conservation native plant park or something like that I forget the name of the park but um that shed's been looked at the roof and it looks like it's about 50 years old um so they're offering they're trying to do some help and they they can make that happen so we'll we'll look at that um I think that because it's a building on our property on conservation property it's up to us to okay that uh I don't think there's anything we help me out here but um you know if it's covered by insurance he said just a building permit you might need yeah to okay okay good good question good point yeah um they think it'd be done in a morning you know it's a just a little small like a you know small shed um the shed's in decent shape it I think there's probably an opportunity for Like an Eagle Scout project to do the rest of the shed because the rest of the sheds in need some fixing but I know Phil has told me in the past they don't climb ladders so don't have them do a roof but if we could do the roof and then they could go to town on the rest of it something like that might be a good good way to make something happen there so I got to connect with him on that um and then uh David you had a extension for an o is that um yes but I think uh first can we talk about um the proposal to remove the trees do you want oh I'm sorry I jumped right over that yep that's okay yep so um so uh next next to 94 Meadow Brick Road um there's there's a parcel conservation land I I at first thought it was crooked spring um but I GA it's it's not it doesn't have a name um so there are uh well the the commission actually paid for uh taking take last year I think it was last year maybe the year before the commission paid for um taking down some some uh large branches on a large Willow Tree on the conservation parcel but the the the uh abing property owners were really worried they were going to come down um which was a legitimate concern um that I mean that could potentially really cause a problem um so so the commission did pay for uh taking down those branches um now now the the same homeowners want um some additional work to be done in particular that that Willow they want the willow tree to uh come down um entirely I guess I guess it it's really taken a beating this is the same tree that was had a Lim yeah so I can I can I can I can bring up a photo you've been out there I have been yes um but Chris can you see this from your house probably I think it's very close I'm actually probably recuse myself because I I think it's a stone throw away to be honest um here here here we go so so this this is the uh this is the willow tree that they're asking I mean it does look like it's in really bad shape and we're assuming the fence is is their property yes yeah that's the property line um so so it so it clearly is on um the T the commission's property and and in addition um they uh they want to know if um the commission well they like the commission to pay for three uh ash trees um so this this also on the town's land so this number one here this is the willow then there are three ash trees so uh that's that's 3,900 then and then then I just um understood that there's a fourth uh um a fifth tree as well that they'd like to come down which I think I think is another uh ash tree uh let me um let me just confirm that so while he's looking um we are uh looking at a increase in our 2025 bud I've talked to Paul about this cuz we keep getting hit with this stuff and so we are probably going to have a bump up just to cover because we're just this is just chewing up our every year we're getting hit with these how did this morph into our our problem it turns out if it's on our property it's always been our problem and historically the um it just for some reason we were still paying for we didn't always know it Paul was paying for it no he wasn't he said he wasn't he said it was coming out of our the beginning when we first taken these people coming to us and asking and Paul said he would pay for this I remember that but it but it but it was it was always the commission money it was I as I'm understanding it it was coming out of our budget from one pocket to the other he's okaying out of our budget I don't know that's that's where we're at that wasn't a premise that was sold to us yeah okay well so so so uh so add added to that request um is is an additional tree for $400 so it would be a total of $4,300 actually um and and the commission does have the money splitting between the uh annual appropriation account and the land maintenance fund there there there starts to get us down to almost nothing Well it it does it does the um the the hay bills that we just uh we're going to get an invoice for that as well right um but I mean there's there's what there's uh most of March April May there's only four months left in the fiscal year when we'll get replenished so I I think in the spirit of being good neighbors yeah no I agree I agree I'm just I'm glad to see we're going to have more money next year because we just chew up you have one we have a lot of land in town that's conservation land not just our reservations but this is just a you know one of our you know properties that is unnamed well and we have a lot of that and a lot of we get a lot of people saying hey your your trees are going to take out my swimming pool or my fence and you have to do it if they you you it's not just really being a good neighbor but you kind of have to well and it's and it's not just the commission Christine told me that that by September of last year so that was July August three months and this year's fiscal budget the DPW tree removal budget was down 75% already yeah by September it's just yeah so climate change whatever you want to call we're going I think from 5 to 15 so yeah that'll give us a little room to hopefully I mean who knows what the weather brings and whatever um cut down more trees but I hope not but yeah I'm just going by the last few years down yeah the last few years well that's the problem is when they fall they do damage now you get even bigger could be different problems okay so I I'll take a motion to approve the uh it's 4,300 not 3900 so the approved the payment of 4,300 to Iron Tree Service to remove trees from the adjacent conservation lot to 94 Meadowbrook Road so a motion from Mark uh second from John I got one question sorry I thought you were second how are they getting the bids for this stuff well three bids from no no they're they're not doing that um but but I but I but I mean it's it's it's cheap enough so that it's not violating chapter 30b you know it's not okay violating the state procurement law yeah maybe maybe someone could do it cheaper but you know based on my experience in this town so far not much this is this is pretty consistent I mean we got Auber re we I've seen Iron Tree around Iron Tree yeah they conglomerate you're recusing yeah I'm recusing do I have a second I'll second is Peter on still guess Peter's gone is he gone it appears to be yeah okay so there's still four of us all in favor I I okay motion passes and one abstain so okay uh thank you very much um so yeah there is uh one one last uh second item for for uh approval is a um request for an extension to an order of conditions for 24 to 302nd Lane that that was issued on March 25th 2021 so that's coming up uh for expiration right now uh apparently it hasn't been started the appan is Patrick Lin and uh I'm understanding is he hasn't started it but so that's why he's requesting an extension okay uh I move to approve the extension uh motion from Chris second second Bill all in favor I oppos None motion passes it's a good thing because Chris has already signed it and we have meeting minutes January 9th and January 23rd don't I I I just put those on there so I wouldn't lose track we've had them oh I think I'm pretty sure I thought you sent them both you one I'll take this yeah was the February meeting I I like those you my I'm sorry no we do have we well let me are you guys prepar to vote on them or not I didn't I didn't print them out either we'll we'll do it next time next time I'll take a motion to adjourn the meeting Mo toj motion from Chris second from second Bill meeting ad joury and thank you CHS for tele media good night e e e