##VIDEO ID:37HGBK7fwKw## e e e e e e tonight's meeting of the chancer planning board starting with a work session on the flood plane by law okay so with us this evening is um NAD she's with um DCR Department of Conservation and Recreation and Nadia is a flood plane management specialist just for a quick background I've been n Nadia has been um uh reached out to me I've been working with her to get it to this point we thought it'd be beneficial uh for the planning board to receive a a brief overview uh presentation uh as to uh what is uh being asked of the town uh so with that Nadia I will good evening and I will bring up the the PowerPoint thank you ready when you are so sure um well thanks for having me tonight um as um you know as you said um I am with I work with the state I'm with the flood Hazard Management program we are the State Coordinating office for the national flood insurance program so we work with FEMA we work with um the state but we don't work for FEMA um we work for the state of Massachusetts and really our job is to support you in this process of you know adopting new flood maps understanding all the regulations that you need to have to be in the program um you can go ahead to the next slide so we're just going to walk through um I've already had a chance to review your current um flood plane bylaw and I think it what we've done at the state is we BAS basically created a model that has all the minimum requirements for the national flood insurance program everything that's in the federal regulations that is not covered by either the State Building Code or the wetlands protection act um and so it's what you need to have in your local zoning bylaw that will let your community meet the minimum requirements of the national flood insurance program and so along with that we have a set of language that's been pre-approved by FEMA that um pass through the ago's office um so it's there this whole model bylaw is here is a tool for you in your community and staying up to date with the regulations Yeah couple facts about the national flood insurance program um it was created by an act of Congress in 1968 the first Massachusetts Community to join with Wham um which joined in 1971 chelsford joined in 1980 um and then most communities in Massachusetts also joined um between the 70s and the 80s um our office was created by an executive order of the governor in 1978 and part of your responsibility as member of the program is that you agree to adopt locally adopt and enforce all of the national flood insurance program requirements which are found in title 44 of this of the um Federal Regulations so Congress wrote the rule theme administers the program and then we help you to to enforce it um and this basically gives you access to flood insurance um you've got 149 um um you know residences or buildings that are covered in chelsford um we've got over $43 million in coverage it's mostly single in two to four family homes um and the policies can be in or out of a flood zone and in chelsford half of your policies are in a flood zone half of are outside of a flood zone um and so this model is just really here to help you have your regulations in place so the reason this has come up for chelsford is that if you look at all those communities in green ch's one of them you are on the verge of having new flood maps that you need to adopt We Believe female will issue letters of final determination for your what are currently draft preliminary Maps um we believe they'll issue that in early January of 2025 and at that point you're going to have 6 months to make make sure all your regulations are up to speed and then to actually adopt the new map um in your local regulations and um you know when you adopt these new flood maps you also you have to make sure that your um your flood zoning bylaw is up to date um and that's why we have this model fima does a very rigorous review at that time when you have new flood maps um and the language that we have in our model again has already been pre-approved by Fe um I've already provided an initial review of your zoning regulations and um we will also review whatever your final draft is so one quick question so who who does the final check off or or approval of our bylaw that it complies yeah the absolute final check off has to come when it's actually in your bylaws and you voted it in that is going to come from female so we do a lot of checks beforehand to make sure that you have everything that FEMA is going to ask um they have a pretty specific checklist of everything they want to see in a local regulation um and so we you know we tend to you know you come to us for a final check because we'll really go over it with a fine tooth comb and make sure you have all the little pieces that you need okay and are the amounts of current flood insurance that chumford has is that in the presentation I think I had mentioned it it's earlier it's 43 million um in coverage for structures okay so it's not it's um you know not every house in town but it's significant for those people who have it okay so question for Evan then is that six months then within the time within six months of the time that we get the official map from fima we have to have the bylaw adopted yeah initially uh the thought was to bring this to Springtown meeting okay and um yeah and that's what all the other communities in the marac Watershed are doing so okay so the insurance the 43 million in coverage how does that work just so I understand because do people because some people may have their own if they're in flood zones have their own flood insurance no well so a lot of people have um if you have a federally backed mortgage and your house is in a FEMA defined you know in that 1% flood zone um you are required to have blood insurance um of some sort um the flood insurance offered through the national flood insurance program is the cheapest Insurance that's available for flood insurance flood insurance is never AA you know it's always a rider on top of your regular home insurance and this 43 million would be then an addition or is this what is this 4 that's just that's how much coverage people have and half of the people who have flood insurance in chelsford aren't even in a flood zone They just maybe are near a flood zone and want to protect their property okay got it that's all right thank you yeah it's available because you're a member it's available for everyone in the community um who wants it okay so we're not going to go through the whole model tonight um I am going to be we are going to be doing it next week um and I'll have um I'll have Evan sent that out um but we are going to do a general training um next Thursday from noon till 1:30 virtually if you'd like but we're going to talk through a couple of areas where chor does need to upgrade um your bylaws in particular um so you want to go to the model slide so we're going to talk about which ones are locally required um like I said much of the nfip all of the things that are in the Federal Regulations title 44 mostly in section 59 through 75 um most of them are in .3 most many or most of the requirements are actually in the flood standards for the State Building Code but those that are not are typically zoning kinds of requirements and so that's why most um communities including chelsford I think has them in their zoning by law okay so they're not new requirements it's just that ma um previously was not fima was not as stringent about having every regulation that needed to be there in the local bylaws and now they really really are okay and so yeah we're going to talk about some of them some things you already have the ones that in green are things that you've had because you there's a lot of pieces in your current flood plane bylaw that use are the state 2012 model which was a simpler one um and then there's some sections in red that what we had to add in our most recent um addition of this okay you can move forward so this one is just um sort of the language that you'll want to use for um the use of the map um you know you're basically you have some standard language you all you have a county map for we have one for all of middle sex um and the dates will be issued like I said I think in early January those are the dates we're hearing from FEA right now so once you have the dates once you have those letters of final determination they'll have an actual date when the map becomes effective it will most like be in July of 2025 Nadia's um comments are on the hard copy in your packet are those comments in the document colorcoded like those slides or when she's talking about green and red she's talk is it so the green the green ones are just um things that you might already have in your current bylaw the ones and red you probably don't have at all so um the first one being the designation of the community flood plan administrator I think this is missing from Cher bylaw at the moment um and so that's just something you have to have as a designated role um it's often but not always the Building Commissioner um it could also be conservation it could be the head of planning sometimes it's the town engineer um floodway encroachment this is really one of the most number six that's one of the most key ones in terms of language again this is something I think C has some of the language that's needed you really need to have all of it um you know we really want to be careful especially when you have not just the flood plane there's this other area the regulatory flood way this is typically the river Channel um it might be a little bit beyond the actual where the water is Flowing most of the time time but it's the area that FEMA has determined you know when they model that 1% storm it's where the water is going to be flowing the fastest and the most being the most dangerous and you really don't want to encroach on that unless you've had an engineer do uh it's called a hydrology and hydraulic study um where they've done a study to prove that that's not going to raise flood risk um for anyone else around them in the community so do we currently have floodways designated in our our M yeah you have them on your all your major rivers okay um so sorry you can you can go back to unnumbered a zones that's another one that you probably need to have some updates I think that's missing entirely um number seven so this is you need to have that language um water course alterations you probably have some of the language let me take a look um no you yeah you need to fix your addresses because um the offices have moved and we're not requiring you to put the addresses anymore you have our contact information by email so this one number 14 this is very similar to the water course requirement this is if you get any data that changes the base flood elevation special flood Hazard area this is typically something that you've done to like often it's a flood um Improvement project where you've done something to reduce flood risk or maybe you've um maybe you've had a dam removal something like that so just FEMA also wants to have that information um once once you've obtained it you need to share that with FEMA within six months so how does that work if for example an applicant is proposing that that the technical data regarding their particular site uh that they have better technical data to show that that's actually not the case what happens in that case uh um well I mean if they're going to be altering a water course um you would want to share that with our office and with um FEMA beforehand anyhow and so you could you could get some some information on that the applicant can always file a letter of map change or most likely a letter of map revision with FEMA um they can do a conditional one before they do the work and they can do an actual afterwards but the the issue being they can't necessarily they can't do anything that raises the base flood elevation and they definitely have to prove they have to prove that they're that they're not if they're doing any work in the flood way okay okay is that help yeah that helps okay so okay this is just you don't have the variance language this is pretty standard if someone wants a variance from the building code and they go up to the State Building Code Appeals board they just were just FEMA is asking that you keep a copy of the variants if it has to do with work in the flood plane that you keep a record in your files and that you issue a letter to the property owner um about the impact of that um you know of that decision and their potential flood risks including their flood insurance risks um so just you know there's some some filing information and a letter that you need to send to the property owner in this situation um then you can also have variances not to the building code but to these actual flood plane bylaws um but those need to meet state law requirements and they need to have these conditions so it's got to be good and sufficient cause exceptional non-financial hardship you have they have to prove that the variance is not going to result in any addition um threats to Public Safety or public expense that there's not going to be any fraud and it really needs to be the minimum action necessary to afford relief so there's always some conditions where you might have to have a variance but it just they should be pretty rare because if FEA comes in and does a review of your community permits they're going to look very carefully at these so that's something handled by the zba right yes yes and this is some guidance for them on on when they should grant that is the zba aware of that we currently um I think the BW currently references a special permit but it's referencing for uses and structures um not necessarily the um not necessarily the um the flood elevation right correct yeah and there's only a few things that should need to actually go before the CBA in terms of this bylaw so you know it's some sort of work that's probably going to be happening in in the flood plane possibly the flood way or um some something sort of unusual yeah I I think think the zba should be made aware of this and get their feedback because I was on the zba for quite a while and and that looks like that's that for if I was EBA member I would be thinking what exactly is it that I'm supposed to be evaluating here what criteria am I supposed to be using and what kind of technical data am I expecting to see or not expect to see so right and the big one is if there's work in the floodway they need to be seeing uh H&H study hydrology and hydraulics and um whatever review process you have in the Town sometimes people have an engineer on higher to help you review that or sometimes you have a good town engineer who can help to review that um those are some of the processes okay um you can can ask our office for help too in sort of situations where you're not sure okay okay and then I think the last one there's some other ones that are missing there's abrogation I just put in disclaimer of liability because that one is not I didn't see that anywhere um abrogation and separability are the other two but sometimes those might be elsewhere in your zoning bylaw and I I hadn't seen them yet but agregation is just um you know this is going to really this should be more if this is more stringent than any other of your other laws that would also apply in this area then this this one you know should be the one that takes effect and severability is a pretty standard Clause so um um and then the other piece I think is the definitions um there certain required definitions that female wants to see um you may have another definition section your zoning bylaw and but you need to either incorporate these into this part of the bylaw or into your general definition section um and female really wants to see these as written um and you can specify that they're for the flood plane District in particular do we have a definitions in the current no no as if n mentioned current bylaw is based upon the state's uh 2012 model right and they didn't correct yeah yeah there were some definitions and sometimes towns um incorporate them into the general definition section of the zoning bylaw but it wasn't FEA at that time was less stringent than FEA today so okay I think we definitely want to want to collocate them what's that I think we definitely want the definitions in this particular thing yeah we could also reference them from the general yeah yeah if there's a yeah yeah that's a good idea so that's you know I think I also shared my review and comments and that was linked in the minutes for this meeting um I'm certainly happy to answer any questions at this time for the planning board now or you know even later on uh one quick question Nadia based upon your experience where um you've where towns have ex an existing bylaw but it's not um in uh compliance with the uh current model do you find that communities are trying to rework their existing bylaw to comply or are they scrapping it entirely and starting with the model what what is your up to you um I don't think chelsford has anything that's necessarily a higher standard um I mean Massachusetts is a home rule state so I have worked with some communities that really want to do things in a quite specific way where they just want to incorporate what they have to into their existing flood plane um bylaw other communities are really happy just scrapping what they have and putting in the model the model will give you the minimum that you need um if there are other things you want to keep in that you think are you need for the for your community you can certainly do that so You' you've mentioned higher standards and in your um your markup you identified that 19580 uh C is a higher standard let me take a look at that um let's see 195 ADC um yeah I mean you kind of well unless I'm misreading this it kind of sounds like people aren't allowed to build new buildings um in the Flint district is that correct uh that's that is how it's read um I can't recall if and when there was ever a new building a new structure uh built in a flight plane there's a lot we have a lot of Park that in itself is a higher standard if you're saying that no building can be constructed or that existing structures can't be altered enlarged or move no dumping filling or Earth transfer or relocation those are all higher standards and um yeah I mean I think if you you put them in for a reason if you think you need them I would say keep them what are some other typical higher standards that you're um seeing that's a one prohibition of of new structures or you know expanding existing structures of flood planes that's that's a pretty big one um we are coming out with some guidance for communities on higher standards that we're going to be rolling out with in January we're working with um the office of Economic Development and a couple of other departments across the state to get that language consistent um but that I mean that's a big one the one that you have is a big one um some communities have some things they require the FEMA elevation certificates um or the flood proofing certificates when people do build in the flood plane but if you're not even letting people build in the flood plane that's that's that's already quite protective so that it's a substantial one um I think Joel had mentioned earlier that currently it's the zoning board that administers the uh the zoning provision is there anything preventing that from being transferred from zoning board to planning board I mean not certainly we I've seen both so there's nothing that's that teams to be preventing you at the state level um at the Town level the politics of getting that done I can't certainly can't advise on that because it's because it's not coming through 40a but through some other uh um I didn't think there was a restriction I I just I just wonder to what extent maybe we've reached the point where it's better served to be with the planning board as you're doing site plan and things of that nature yeah there are definitely other communities that do it through planning Board review um and there are some communities that do quite a good job doing this happy to give you some references if that is useful um a lot of communities now do this coordinated review um the special permit process I don't know if tford is n BTA Community um you might be yes we are yes and I don't know if you have put any of your District um in the flood plane or not no we avoided it yeah so that's smart so then you don't have to worry about the the conflicts between um as of right building in the special permit process um so yeah you could I mean you can do it either way so communities I've seen it in the you know special permit process zoning board of appeals some communities have moved it from that the planning board or always had it through the planning board a lot of communities kind of do this interdepartmental review where you'll have building conservation and planning sit down to look at projects that are in the flood plane and probably other things as well Westford has moved to that system um from the special permit process pretty recently and so far they're happy with it is that helpful but I mean it's we're a home R state so it is to some degree up to you how you do the regulations SEMA just wants to make sure that you have it and that you know when they come to visit the community when they come to look at the buildings that are built in the flood plane that you don't have you know that you're actually you're following the rules there's no violations oh okay so so procedurally as I understand it we're targeting Springtown me meeting one option is that I could work with you uh to maybe bring this current um draft up to what you think is a a final and maybe bring that back to the planning board um you mentioned that there's a um a webinar next week yeah yeah we're going to have a training webinar and I'll send around the information for that um it should be on teams so it's going to be on the entire model bylaw and we're going to walk through every piece of it and so it's a great place if you have looked through your review and you have specific questions you could come listen to that and also bring your questions so we'll have another one in January as well but I think your warrant closes in January it be uh yeah mid-February I think is when they sign sign the warrant all right okay and then any other questions for vadia so the the markup version is the current draft with comments correct and then the plan is for you and N yet to work on pulling in the rest of wording I can certainly do that if that's the preferred you know option for the board I think that'd be great I think that makes sense there doesn't seem to be anything terribly yeah I don't think it's a heavy lift I think it's just a matter of making sure that the curent bylaw includes everything that it needs to include yep and then the board can have a discussion about you know whether you think it makes sense to transfer the special permit um and maybe add um some higher standards where appropriate the special permit is that dictated by the town Charter no it's a local it's a it's a local option no but I mean who so changing it what require Charter no that be be part of the town meeting vote to okay uh to adopt the uh the the zoning how often do you have you know how often you have flood plane um things going through your zba for special permits it's very infrequent and as I read that uh bylaw again um we have had new structures built in the flood plane so that um 180 that uh 180- C it's not a complete prohibition because 1858 8 2 the special permit provision allows uh the zoning board to issue a special permit to deviate from the prohibition so we've had several structures over the last 10 15 years successfully built within the flood plane but it's primarily um parking lots okay yeah yeah I mean again there's there's lots of Provisions in the State Building code for building in a flood plane it's something you can do that you're allowed to do it's not always a smart thing to do but there are ways to do it to make it you know less risky right right I think we've had several um solar Fields as well yeah in a flood plane wasn't the lighthouse school parking garage portion in the flood plane um possibly there was something there yeah yeah I think you're right a portion of prop they left it open so it could flood and and there was the Gris mil was proposed yep yeah we've had we've had a number of them okay all right well thank you Nadia and I'll be in touch okay great yeah feel free to reach out with questions and like I said I'll send the information over if anyone wants to join our training next week you're are very welcome too great thank you have a great night thank you well we're done a little early not really do the minutes I I have 7 o' right on my yeah okay I think we're right on time all right if being 7 o'cl we'll open up this General cheler plane board meeting um this meeting will be recorded and available on demand through Chums Tel media and um it's also available this evening by Zoom um should the zoom go down then we will continue the um meeting meeting after making reasonable efforts to make it come back um and it's uh 7:00 and it's November 13th um we'll open with public input which is limited to items which are not the um relating to a um pending public hearing is there anyone who wants to speak yeah before we get to that is mic on mik Walsh has joined us yes okay uh yes I'm on I'll be there I'll be in the uh in the room probably about 10 minutes okay thanks Mike okay if you can just step to the mic and introduce yourself yeah sorry hi my name is far Kanani I'm at elderado Road in jfor um I'm here to address with the planning board and I've been discussing this with Evan uh regarding the new Adu regulation that are supposed to be pregated by the town by February um I know that there's been some delay in the state you know issuing guidelines and I was on the same webinar that Evan was on and what I'm here to basically request is to be part of the town planning process to get those bylaws in place uh because I want to put an Adu in place I Al also want to make sure that that the town is satisfied with the regulations in place and I'm hoping that the planning board is able to establish a a joint committee of citizens and members to get get those bylaws in place that are uh both compliant and meet CH food needs as well so um again I've been having discussion with Evan online and and he said he just like I come over here and discuss it with you guys so I'd love to understand what the planning board is planning to get those bylaws in place by February which have to be done by law so we had discussed it at a previous meeting that we would wait um for the state's guidelines to be handed down which we thought was going to be I think early November which has come and gone the webinar that the speaker references I don't know if any of you were on that webinar okay um likely January um the the guidelines I think will be useful uh but many communities have begun re either reviewing their existing uh in-law apartment bylaws or drafting uh bylaws based upon the knowledge that you know that is known to date with the understanding that the uh the guidelines uh may require some additional revisions many of those communities are targeting a Springtown meeting uh the webinars and the guidelines appear to have a lot of focus on legal questions such as how do you handle uh a pre-existing non-conforming use or structure uh the answer is fairly simple you handle it the same way you do now uh and there's questions about what about Wetlands what about um um Title 5 things of that nature same answers as MBTA zoning um so you know I don't know to what extent um the guidelines are going to be um helpful definitive for for Chum's purposes um the state also as part of every webinar uh mentions that towns are not obligated to do anything uh if you choose not to adopt any specific Town bylaws then come February 2nd The Building Commissioner will administer the state law so some communities find that um a good option and others obviously uh don't um well we cannot be more restrictive than the state law correct correct you cannot be more restrictive right right so so there there seems to be unlike MBTA zoning where there are lots of levers to to kind of pull and customize there may not be with this just because of the Simplicity of the state law um and I think we you know I think we're aware of some of the um the levers that are in place right now F lot coverage um that process uh I think is well known Zone if you have an undersized LW you're already going to the zoning board if you can't comply with uh with with f because you're putting on an addition regard regardless of what kind of addition you're going to the zoning board for special permits um the one item that is in the state law that uh I think the planning bill will need to consider is whether to require site plan approval and if so for what is it for only detached is it for for any type of um Edition um and all of those kind of questions revolve around you know what's what's reasonable and what is not reasonable um so the board can certainly wait until the guidelines are issued um and I think the town manager Express has expressed an interest or ability or um willingness to call a special town meeting if need be um after April uh I guess the board would bring this to April April town meeting um if if we so desired uh and I think what the uh speaker is asking for is what is the board's process is the board contemplating a uh establishing a a working group or a committee made up of uh Representatives uh beyond the planning board because the deadline is February thank you but there but currently we have ad like someone can put in an Adu we have have it on the book there's a process right now yes so that's not stopping anybody corre going doing that that bylaw will be um invalid on February 2nd right so the question is do we do something different no no no but I mean this gentleman said he's waiting for it but there is a process now that he's really in a hurry he could go through the process we get we get weekly inquiries uh from residents thank you sir local contractors um saying uh you know I understand what I can do now yep but what's the town's rules going to be come February 2nd and so we can staff can give them uh General guidance but there you know there are some um there will be some significant differences between the existing Adu the existing in-law bylaw and whatever uh you know the planning board advances to town meeting um so and again the interpretation I think there are some residents who are reading the uh the state law and reading some uh articles in the media where they're keying in on uh by right in any single family residential zoning District so some people are interpreting that to mean that any single family home in town will have the the byright ability to put an Adu in I believe that correct excuse me sir um sorry we're not having a conversation you made your point and now you can sit down please what um just to wrap this up quickly what the webinars have said is that's not necessarily the case so in Chelmsford where we already have significant number of lots that are undersized that have trouble putting any addition on because of f those lots um will not be by right automatically entitled to put an Adu in they will still need to continue to apply to the zoning board for that zoning relief um the Adu itself is by right but dimensional relief is not by right right so I think I think the board understands that however to tell them that and then in the meantime perhaps that I think what some people are hopeful uh is that in this the the the speaker may be may fall into this category is that the Adu bylaw is treated differently or adus are treated differently um than than other types of additions okay so I what I propose is that you continue to tell people as you have been in accord with our current zoning and then that we put this issue on a future agenda to discuss what our process will be if different than accepting the the regulations from the state okay should we also invite a member of the zba a is part of that discussion uh you can um again if the planning board wants to take ownership of the of the Adu to the extent that the law allows which is site plan review that can be separate and distinct from the uh zoning relief if the if the board in if the board wants to combine the two which has some makes some sense uh then the then where applicable the zoning Bo would be doing the site plan review which which they essentially do now I mean that would I bringing it all all the adus to the planning board they don't right oh I'm not saying that we would I'm just saying have some coordination between the two in this discussion in terms of yeah there certainly generating a process the zoning board has been um a a member Glenn Diggs has been actively updating the zoning board I think he's very much interested in collaborating with the planning board uh I will I will up he be a good one he would be a good one to be a yeah representative If he if the if the zba is willing to have him be their representative um so maybe I'll reach out to Brian and see um if he wants to if if he's interested in collaborating with us on that ISS on this issue and then um our next meeting do we have something for a work session already on the next meeting and if so should we push that a week from tonight uh starting at 6:30 you have progress Regulatory and then you're and then you transition to a work session originally you um penciled in the the bayod yeah we could you know we could add we could add other topics what do people think about adding this topic on for the work session next week we could I'm fine with that what do you think Mike fair enough we have to keep track of time though y so maybe we could do a half an hour on this topic and an hour on the bayad mhm yeah can I recommend an hour each we're not going to be able to get much done in a half hour okay an hour each the ad discussion shouldn't even take a 30 minutes I mean there's only a couple questions that really need conversation at this point for us true you know to what extent does a planning board want to be involved just because the state just because the law says site plan doesn't mean that the planning board has to do site plan it also doesn't mean the bot needs to require site plan at all so those are the the few local local decisions to be made um would you be able to um I know you sent us some other towns plans I didn't I didn't look at them because I thought I was still waiting for the for um for the state I think I sent you the um maybe the uh the massworks um Grant Awards list no you sent us I thought you sent us a couple towns Adu yeah examples of town other Town Adu oh I'll resend that but I know what you're referring to was were those new ones or old ones old ones that's what I thought yeah they're old the list I think the list includes um either existing that comply or new ones as well yeah there's a bunch of towns where where they believe that where they think they're working I'll send that out send that out yeah thanks okay um now just for clarification that's not a public comment work session correct no work sessions are not public comment so we would be able to ask for public comment after we get something drafted yep okay so we'll get try and get something drafted and then we'll put it up as a topic on topic on an agenda to which we will take public comment okay is that in accord with everyone yep Mike Walsh do you agree oh agre just on Q I agree um okay is there anyone else who wants to speak during the public input okay then we have administrative review we have endorsement of the myar plans for Park Hurst Road um that's doesn't really require anything El just just a motion to endorse and then at the end of the meeting we'll physically endorse them move to endorse I second motion to endorse by Mike risbeck second by Chris Lali all in favor I I and for the record um the board is all members are currently present Mike Walsh has entered the room I have got noted 7:15 at 7:15 okay next up we have 150 North Road endorsement of the milers so with us tonight is uh Chris fazza in um he was the the project um representative uh during the planning board proceedings as you recall your decision um requires um that uh final plans via the myars be endorsed we also attached the um the town clerk uh certified uh no appeals um on the um for the decision um so that procedurally the board is is aware that the uh that the myars can be endorsed so no appeals were made so um an appeal has been filed it's been filed uh per uh per in accordance with the zoning bylaw provisions of the zoning by uh with the zoning board of appeals and so all of these steps have been um um forwarded to council prior to action being taken so Council um reviewed the planning board's decision and um standard um your standard um language in your decision references appeals to be taken part of the state zoning act the the provisions within the state zoning Act refer to an appeal to to the to the court system uh so that appears to be why Council recommended or advised the town clerk that they could certify that no appeals were taken simultaneously Town Council is aware that a local appeal has been submitted as I mentioned that local appeal is in accordance with Provisions in our zoning bylaw uh which do not make any uh distinction between um an mgl uh procedure it appears to provide a more uh open-ended local appeal process uh so that that that appeal is scheduled for December 5th um and obviously you know councils will be there and um you know we'll see how that unfolds at this point uh the applicant is aware that they're proceeding at their own risk endorsing of the myars doesn't give them any rights to move forward there's there's other Provisions in the planning board decision such as land disturbance permits nip these permits uh a variety of other um requirements that that are required to be in place before any erosion control goes in place any tree cutting goes in place any uh land disturbance uh takes place so just to clarify the appeal to the zba it's to the zba correct correct so that that isn't that is a an appeal of a decision made by the building um I don't forget what the official title is whether it's not inspector but commissioner commissioner or whatever you thank you so it's a good question so so they're not actually appealing our site plan approval right they're appealing something that has been some determination that's been made out of that office related to this is that correct as I understand it they are repealing the decision of the planning board uh to the zoning board of appeals this is based upon section 195 d10 102 powers of the board of appeals uh number one there number one two three and four uh and I believe the pertinent uh provision is number one here to hear and decide applications for special no not that one I'm sorry to hear and decide appeals or petitions for variances from the terms of the chapter um with respect to particular land or structures that set forth in 40a um and then three to hear and decide appeals taken by any person AG grieved by reason to uh inability to obtain a permit or enforcement action so the Building Commissioner hasn't made any formal determinations if you recall um even the determination related to the do whether this was a Dover use or not wasn't made in formally in writing by The Building Commissioner uh the planning board I think engaged Council on that question so the planning board process uh made that determination so again so as I understand it and again council's involved in all of this okay and there's a variety of legal mechanisms at play here um but it's clear that the applicant believes that the that the way our zoning bylaw is written that they have the right to make the appeal okay that will be discussed further on December 5th okay I mean it would be clearer to me if they felt that for example The Building Commissioner did not take an action that he should take because then that would be no actions been requested that's why I mentioned okay so this that'll be interesting to hear how this turns out because people just can't decide to appeal planning board decisions to the zba I mean you're you're picking up on a a number of the legal um yeah legal unique you know legal unique legal aspects to this okay so as I mentioned uh Chris is with us uh this evening this is uh really a purely administrative action but Chris you know I asked Chris to join us you know just in case there were any questions of him okay be looking for a motion to endorse those milars so just a quick question can since this is going in front of the board on December 5th what happens if we don't take this action now can we move it to after that I don't recommend you do that I mean the myars are an administrative item um they they comply with the planning board decision any and all revisions that were required as part of your uh decision are reflected in the myars um yeah I you know and isn't there a timeline as well for that to endorse myars I mean it's at the request of the applicant once once they comply with the planning board's decision uh which which they have which brings them to endorsement of the myar um what what they do with with the endorsement of the myar um you know they could they could they could they could use it to advance the project they could use it to advance financing there's a variety of reasons why someone would you know want to get myars endorsed mhm um you know I I think the the proceedings under the planning board decision in what is scheduled to take place on the 5th I think are separate and distinct at this point and the reason I'm saying that is because if Council thought that there was any connection he would not have advised the clerk to certify no appeals were taken which is I think is the only reason that endorsement of the myar is it's on your agenda mhm so that's the only way I can answer the question is that they they're legally entitled to it based upon complying with everything that they need to comply with up up to date right I'll take a motion please I move that we accept the um the endorse endorse the myar plans a second motion by Chris Lali second by mik Mike risbeck all in favor I I I'm a no because I voted against this okay okay so it's six six in favor one opposed um okay well and I have those physically here tonight and and Anita is opposed and we don't have anyone on roll call so we don't have to do I mean on Zoom so we don't have to do a roll call okay um lastly we have a another anr we have an anr pertaining to 7 to9 Walter gy Street I don't know if I say that correctly or not Weed Street Weed Street weed weed uh good evening uh members of the board for the record briany with Haley Ward we have submitted an approval not required or an anr plan for apostel of property on Walter G wedi Street across the street from the old Glen View um it's a fairly simple interior lot line change uh meets all dimensional regulations we're just asking for endorsement of the of the anr plan I can walk you through it if you would like I would love that uh if I may approach the screen the old Glen View p is over here there's a uh SE Pump Station at the corner of Princeton Street in Walter G Weed Street here if you've been buy lately there's a couple of duplexes that have recently been built the old property line had this diagonal to it we are creating this new property line here creating this little parcel that will go to seven and n and three and five will have the remainder of it just was at the request of a potential buyer for one of the units on 79 just to kind of straighten things out a little bit okay looks like it's got all up any questions from the board I should say it doesn't affect Frontage whatsoever uh the areas meet uh again dimensional requirements for the underlying Zone and sub I'm just wondering why they didn't if that's the case why didn't they just draw a line straight perpendicular to this we suggested not messing with any of the frontages and it was really just to create a somewhat parallel line okay uh with the units seven and nine okay okay no I'll take a motion I would move that we uh approve the anr grant the anr I think is what it is without no determination as to zoning second all in favor I I great thank you for your time thank you B okay next up we have a new public hearing 66 Park HST Road bavani B LLC requesting to change the use of a tenant space from retail to a fast food restaurant resulting in an increase in the required parking this project requires site plan review per section 195-199 Lot 1 and consists of approximately 18.5 Acres good evening hi good evening members of the board on here al man and the architect of the project and the owner of the new Lei Hardy Patel we are requesting here at the board the change of use off for retail to a fast food restaurant um we are increasing our our parking demands but the complex still has enough parking to supply the new the new use um it's going to be a fast food restaurant with 50 um 50 users and yeah that's pretty much what we're requesting for so this space initial was retail yes or was it it's a soap store it was retail retail was it was the um uh soap store bu soap the what bu soap city soap the soap Place soap yeah I was thinking it was the video the GameStop he was at some point [Music] GameStop the parking calculations is that Evan is that inclusive of the new the recent Walmart changes um I don't know they just submitted an Alta survey plan uh and he said that this is reflective Hing for the date of the Alta plan yes as far w WS Development this is the current with the new change with Walmart so this should be fairly new okay and we have we submitted also the plans that show the parkings compared to the new location of the site of the restaurant so what is the difference in the number of parking spaces between the current use and and the use that you're proposing so our new demand is going to be 47 so it's still the the Center still have seven parkings available so seven additional parking spaces okay I noticed in the narrative you're using disposable plates bowls and silverware I know it's not in our purview but my recommendation would be to work with the sustainability committee um um they the recycling committee and the sustainability manager to see what can be done with Recycling and and those types of plant-based materials for the dispos Disposable cool thank you for that I would agree so we don't see a lot of these just to clarify it's not coming to the board simply because of the Chang of use it's coming to the board because the change of use triggers additional parking permit for parking yep I just wanted everyone to be aware because there's plenty of businesses that come and go that don't don't go to the board if this was retail a retail you would not have seen [Music] [Music] it and I think you have some letters yes um from Public Works Shayla Joyce project engineer the engineering department has performed a review of the application for the change in use of a tenant space of 66 pist Road submitted for the applicant bavani Boston LLC the following contents of the submission were reviewed for appropriateness of method and accuracy as well as for compliance with the town of chumford storm water bylaw town of chumford storm one of management regulations division 3 sewer capacity and connection restri restriction sore comments DPW approves the sore flow transfer from the former Applebees restaurant currently Chase Bank to the proposed J bavani Restaurant per communication between Town engineer and Ian Sloan of WS Asset Management uh from 91024 to 10224 acknowledge what the owner's authorization letter DPW would allow a credit of up to 2500 GPD based on the current 10-year usage history for the building as of October 1st 24 2024 as stated the owners authorization letter the applicant understands that this credit is a dwindling resource and not a fixed value to be submitted to DPW prior to the issuance of a building permit the proposed seating plan of the restaurant showing the tables and seat counts the proposed SE usage and designation from Title Five shown in the plan set it gives an example and then recommended General conditions of approval the DPW shall Monitor and enforce sore flow limitations and impose penalties for violations thereof in accordance with the town sore policy contractor must be licensed in the town of chumford to perform work in the right of way licensed contract required for grease trap installation a trench permit shall be obtained for the work described new exterior grease trap from Department of Public Works if applicable all handicap parking signs must meet the requirements of mgl part one title 7 chapter 40 section 22A and clearly leg and be clearly and legibly display the following message handicap parking special plate required unauthorized Vehicles may be removed at owner's expense and then from The Building Commissioner Jose Negron uh Dear Sir Madam please be advised that for the proposed change of use from retail to fast food restaurant at the above regarded address such change increases is the safety hazards of the building and occupants and need to comply with all current building code and possibly sprinkler system requirements also need to comply with parking to include Ada compliancy a compliant an occupancy load calculation by a registered design professional should be provided for approval by The Building Commissioner and let's see and we have two letters with no concerns from the Board of Health and the treasurer collector's office and that concludes the letters who was it that put the inter rating about the grease trap that wasn't the Board of Health that was Public Works an engineer from public works yeah Sheila Joy project engineer I have a question about the sewer dwindling resource I don't really understand that do you I think there I think their comments in reference to the Walmart site in its entirety that and as I read it the 2500 gallon transfer was from the former Applebees I think what I think what dpw's member saying is it there's not there's not a lot of any additional transfers available for that site so I think they're making it they're making the proper aware that this is likely a one-time opportunity oh so it's not dwindling across time it's dwindling across the property yes I think that's what the context of the letter is that it's property specific I see that makes sense I've been wondering about when a restaurant closed what happened to that capacity so [Music] um want to take public comment yeah thank you for your presentation is is there anyone from the public who would like to speak about this project seeing none is there any any questions from the board here no Mike John yeah I don't have a question but I just wanted to sorry for the Omission um we have one from the fire prevention office I just wanted to read sorry for that um from Captain Josh shabot fire prevention office DM members of the board regarding the application submitted for the site plan review for 66 parest Road J bavani Restaurant this office finds the following all pertinent codes including but not limited to NFPA standards mgl chapter 148 527 CMR Mass State Building Code and town of chumford bylaws must be conformed to for the design and construction of the proposed fast food restaurant plans must be submitted to this office as part of the building building permitting process for approval separate stamped fire protection plans fire alarm and sprinkler must be submitted separately for approval by an appropriately licensed professional all inspections must be completed prior to use this off office would approve of this project under these conditions and we ask that you make this letter part of your approval process and public record and did you have any questions or comments no I'm good no I'm good thank you no Mike nope Anita Chris nope um I have one quick question the parking the increase of seven spots that increases the need for one handicaps that right so I rephrase so the seven is still the net parking that the the complex is still has available I'm sorry so the seven is net that's the the extra parking that we have after the after our use the change of use is triggering 47 new spaces correct I understand that but if for seven add understand so as part of the building permit Jose um Negron The Building Commissioner will review for compliance with the number of adaa spaces yeah okay CU you're familiar with that that side of the plaza there's a a large Bank of ADA handicapped accessible spaces okay they may have enough if not they'll but I mean for them to be handicapped appropriate they'd have to be insufficient proximity to the cor location corre correct Yeah in our s planine that we submitted that shows our unit compared to the general we was in front of the unit okay perfect all right um so I I move that we close the public hearing second okay motion by Chris second by Mike raisbeck favor I all in favor I I would move that we approve the uh special permit I'll second with the conditions yeah with the conditions of the fire and the yeah with the conditions according to DPW and fire and Zoning z uh zoning all letters yeah all letters thank you nicely done okay second motion by Chris second by Anita all in favor I thank you thank you thank you good luck next up we have a continued public hearing pertaining to for payet Drive requesting construction of 16 new parking spaces with Associated site improvements I'm going to defer the reading of the rest of the permit requirements unless someone objects Casey all right uh Casey Ferrer with Howard Stein Hudson um so when we last left about a month ago um we kind of set out on a path of and I know this this board was very interested in the answer to why now why is it a concern now why are we forced to do something at this point um so we dove in I met with Tony Ruchi I met with uh fire prevention officer Captain Josh it um and it it it boils down to there was a complaint at one point or another um and then there was also a response needed at the culdesac for for you know one thing or another and they could not access based on the parking that was in there so it's a public safety um additionally we ventured down the path of well if I could show you that you know we can make fire access work could we buy a piece of the culdesac so that it could be um as part of this property and we could maintain it as is um the path that was set out to be able to do so was not um there was no Assurance to it we'd be able to to pursue it um but we'd need to get approval through select board through town meeting DPW would require subdivision plans which would be you know additional expense um which ultimately could just be turned down at any point um so with that being understood we decided you know it's it's best for us just to move forward in in the path that we have as much as we don't want to construct this it's really the only safe or Economic Opportunity for us um so with that being said we did make a few changes to the plans uh as part of or in response to some of the concerns that we heard at the last meetings um mostly related to storm water so in the storm water review and and uh Sheila did send a DPW letter for this uh this I think this afternoon um where she did fully review storm water um where she states that it meets all relevant uh standards at the previous meeting we had one overage um was a flow rate in the 100-year storm event um we took a new look at how the storm water was being um accepted and we just increased a small portion of the pond on the top right side of it um which in turn is going to remove some of the castor's um pavement uh we increase that size we are able to to obtain a reduction in flow in that 100e storm so now in every storm event we do result in a net uh reduction in both flow and volume um off the site so it meets all storm water standards at this point um additionally we did hear concerns about the direction and I believe Joel We had a discussion about this at the last meeting was the direction of which we outflow from from the pond so while I cannot move the Weir itself just due to flood storage and the BM that goes around it um I was I what we did was we took an overflow structure so that we could redirect just a portion of it so that maybe we could disperse some of the outflow and not have it all directed at that that drainage ditch that's adjacent to or between the dunshire properties in our property um so essentially instead of just having the pond fill up all at once then spill over into one location which is to that drainage ditch in between the our property and the dunshire properties we have an intermittent outflow which is as it rises up in the storm water Pond um it'll begin outflowing at a lower at a lower rate but to a different location what that just allows us to kind of spread out the outflow instead of being at one spot which is directly to that drainage ditch um I did think after watching back the last meeting I may not have painted the best picture of the postd development um I think it's important that I emphasize the fences on both sides of the property are two remain uh we don't plan on removing the existing fences um the only fencing that we're removing is going to be the fence that crosses the back of the property and that's only because we have to get past that portion of the property with the the parking um so we're still screened in um the parking is still screened by the fence that's adjacent to the property and as we remove that fence that goes down the back of the property we're going to use those panels that are still in good condition to repair other portions of the fence uh that have deteriorated or have lost fence panels um so I just wanted to paint that picture a little bit more clearly because as I watched it back I don't even think I touched on it um so there is going to be a fence between the dun properties and our property and currently that fence stands at 6 ft tall um so it is adequate to block or at least help um screen the parking that would be taking place in the rear uh with that I believe that wraps up the changes and any explanation um I will I don't know if you guys have had the chance to read it but Tony did Tony the town engineer did write a letter to this board um highlighting how this came about um there's one portion of that letter that I think is very important it is is that while we may maintain parking for now they have instructed the applicant or the property owner to seek an engineering firm to create a permanent solution that removes the vehicles from the RightWay so there is a will and a need for us to remove these these cars from the right of way entirely we are not allowed to continue parking there once we can figure this out so with that I'll open it up for comments and questions what was the area the right away on the drawing can you show what was that the area of the right away you're talking about that the building inspector's talking about so you talking about the whole cldo sack yeah so they want no parking at all in there right right so basically said for now we can use parallel parking um we could continue to use parallel parking so long as it does not interfere with the apparatus turn around the right of way I don't know if you've been to that culdesac it's pretty tight the ladder can't make it one way or another whether there's cars there or not um so for now they're allowing parallel but the letter does instruct us that we have to move all cars off of the right of way for a permanent solution is that a public parking Street I believe public parking is allowed on all streets but they don't want it to be a primary source of parking I think it has to be designated as no parking for it to not allow parking thank you Casey can you touch a little bit more on the expansion of the um the pond as well sure as you mentioned at last night's meeting and I want to make sure that y so this little portion back here um we had originally planned to keep all of the castor's parking lot because we didn't want to be responsible for removing it as they paved it we would rather them have to remove it and bring it back into compliance which we're still going to work on um with castores to have them remove the remainder of their parking that's on our property I'm sorry Casey what number is castor what number TS railroad 100 100 okay thank you so but in order to achieve full storm water compliance where we're not requesting a Dom Minimus impact where just fully compliant with all reductions we added an increase on this right hand side here this top right corner um where we're going to go over the existing Castor parking lot or pavement take out a portion of it and add it to the the drainage Pond and that's going to accomplish that allows us to meet all of the storm water requirements to the tea so PRI before we had an increase in rate in the 100-year storm event by I think it was 02 CFS so adding this extra Pond area allows the Ponda stage be able to absorb more just enough not absorb more but slow it down more MH so I mean I guess it's beyond the purview of this board but I I'm interested like how much do we expect the new FEMA flood planes change this I was thinking about change this for all intents and purposes there won't be any changes as it relates to this particular property there are no map changes and then as we quickly discussed um this is a parking lot project I'm not a flood plane expert uh but my understanding is that's AOW uh they have to maintain um existing grading of topography so the requirement is that the existing storage that's on site we have to maintain the existing flood storage on site we have provided a grading plan and a cut fill analysis that proves out that from that flood elevation of 103 all the way down to our lowest level of disturbance which is Contour 99 from between those four feet of Contours we provide the same storage or more in the foot by foot foot by foot that is correct and then additionally on top of that our outflow is a total or a net reduction in volume out of the the site do do you know what to what extent dpw's review did the um the flood plane review as well I don't know if they looked at that I don't think it states it in their letter whether they did or did not Chris what did the consum what did they say last night what did conservation yeah in terms of well what they say about that the the backup that we had a discussion at the last meeting regarding the outflow being blocked and all that are they going to are they addressing that they can't I mean it's with the state so there no one from the town that can address that for the Neighbors not really it's it's a state issue um they've encouraged folks to reach out to the state reps um but it really is a stage issue at the route three Culvert yeah because it's a culvert that's owned by the state so we can't go messing around with the state's Culvert as much as we'd like to so you can't clean it out n the town can't clean it out I don't think so no can't touch it unless it's an imminent Hazard to health or safety but it's flooding I I don't think it's an issue of being clean or not clean I think it's physically under size for the amount of water that's it okay if we would just CLE I think he meant make it bigger no I thought there was a discussion last week that some of the flooding was caused by being blocked so I thought that as well and so I went out there to look at it and I think what Evan just said is correct is that on dunshire Drive there's two 4ot pipes that go underneath dunshire drive that travels down into the wetlands which then Outlets to that stream which then goes to 3A which has just a single singular four foot wide four foot tall covert so you're basically going from double the size to half the size okay that's right and that's not part that's not the town's responsibility the fix it no State we we can't I I could we can't work on their cver yeah CT it's their C good but I think representative Elliott is working on it oh is he working on I think he is not the Culvert but getting the to do something about the car he might get on he might be able okay uh can you show where the outfall where the new outfall is going to be the sort of interum um can you go to the next so this is the we we adjusted the Weir over just slightly but then we added this concrete might be concrete might be n structure here which has a pipe outlet that goes okay diagonal more towards the well okay all right thank you for that discharge structure um does that impact that Pond's ability to hold water and and let it percolate into the ground yeah so the lower that you have an outlet the less the the pond is forced to infiltrate um so it's going to release water at an earlier time but it still meets all requirements for each storm event 2E 10 year 25 and 100 Year storm event for net reductions is there a way to raise that outflow up closer to the Weir level so that it's so the problem with doing that is the higher you bring they call it an orifice for the structure the higher you bring the orifice the higher the pond stages the faster the water is going to come out once it over tops that orice so then we lose our ability to control the flow the flow and the rate reduction out of the pond yeah you want to gradual right so the earlier we can do it the more gradually it'll hold it'll release it m okay [Music] well and I do want to also um prioritize the fact that you know our requirement is not to stop the flooding that occurs on dunshire as much as we empathize with people experiencing flooding our job and our requirement through both state regulations and local regulations is just to not compound it and not make it worse um so you have drainage calculations in front of you you have peer review of those drainage calculations that agree that as a result of the project there will not be a increase in volume which would lead to an increase in flooding it is all a net decrease is there any way to make it better without fixing the covert you're not going to fix the issues that they have by reducing the amount of volume that's coming off of our site we're making it better to the amount that we can and that's about all we can do you're redirecting it in two directions and well we're allowing more of it to infiltrate now than we were previously than the existing site does and that's because we went into that other site we grabbed that other piece of it we always met the recharge requirements and the net reduction in volume all that all the making it bigger did was allow us to uh reduce the rate and and the rate um while the increase was very minimal is still a requirement of the state standards to to reduce but the rate doesn't necessarily compound flooding the volume the pond is holding the water so it infiltrates more as opposed to running across it right now it's sheet floating across sheet flowing across the property so it's only what it happens to catch as it's passing over but if you put a upon there you're holding the water there so it can infiltrate more so and know but you're redirecting it so that instead of it flowing across the property down along the whole back of those properties now you're at least in an interum putting it more towards the wetlands and then eventually as it over tops in high flood event High rain events then it's going to be at that corner of the property that that is an improvement over what it is right now it's not it doesn't fix the flooding problem but it does improve at least the way it is right now it should now the looking at the storm water standard 9 onm UM contributing water sheds with high sediment concentrations may require inspections monthly and cleanings at least four times a year so that will be the responsibility of the owner correct so I believe it makes its way into your decisions as well Evan but I know in the Conservation Commission order of conditions we're required to provide all of our maintenance receipts directly to Conservation Commission and DPW I believe it makes its way into the decision as well ours go to DPW right so we in the past it's been that uh upon request we have to provide all our maintenance receipts that would basically require DPW to ask us for our receipts it's since been changed through the local storm water regulations that now for every approval we have to on a yearly basis give our maintenance receipts to DPW instead of them chasing us for them so that basically that helps make sure that every project approved through these boards is maintaining as required or else they could face that they're not in compliance with their approvals and we don't have the updated DPW letter yet right received it this afternoon I don't recall even receiving an email on it she might have just sent it to David oh okay what's that I I'm not sure if actually Evan was copied on it but I know that the updated letter was sent this afternoon I could forward it to you but uh it's unfortunate if it was not sent to you I have a few other questions not related to the storm water um Casey the Board of Health letter mentioned that the current dumpster pad is not in compliance if I remember correctly but the but you guys mentioned that you're not changing anything there um I thought the Board of Health letter stated that it would require an enclosed dumpster to which we are not moving the existing enclosed dumpster I think they just did not see it on the plan but I could be mistaken here it says I do not see the dumpster location clearly listed on the new plans in the paragraph above it it says this property currently has a dumpster which does oh sorry which does meet sorry I read that wrong game in at 42 I was going to say that's something I would have that would have caught my eye sorry about that um the snow storage um is in two locations towards the front we've requested this of other projects but could you guys place no store no snow storage signs along that um the the fence and the the pond part of the parking lot the burm yeah so that the contractors don't pile up the snow storage there absolutely and then could you also put that um snow storage information is part of the onm so I noticed it's not in there and on sensitive areas like this it'd be good to have that so that the contractors can actually see it and because they'll never go back to the plans [Music] sure and then in terms of overflow snow storage like how's is that written in the decision like that it's their responsibility to we we added a note to the plans as well that states that any uh snow accumulation in excess of what can be handled on site must be removed by the owner yeah you can you can include a condition um it's really up to the board some some decisions have specifically included that I would like that in this case because of the harmless Del area and Casey I also noticed that it's Cape Cod burm on the parking lot any chance that that could be Granite curb to avoid damage during plowing I understand well we can review the cost with the applicant and see if it's something that we can make happen CU that at least on the edges closest to the the um where it'll come down into the Stream area so you want ideally around the whole parking lot but minimum at minimum there would be good yeah and I also I I know we discussed this at the last time and I um I guess I just am bothered by the wildlife tree um removal I mean can you refresh me what you're taking down what you're putting up and um sure so think about if there's any way that could be better if you go to the uh demolition plan page so right here so this is that existing fence that crosses the back right now there's a bunch of smaller trees some larger ones some of them are already dead but there's approximately 16 total to be removed 16 16 16 um we don't have a landscaping plan proposed as part of this um and that is mainly due to the overall cost of the project and trying to keep it in line with what we can actually achieve um you know while we want to do as much as we can it has to be realistic within a budget that they have to be able to construct this um so our plan now is we want to keep the fence as a screening purpose but we don't have any plan to or we don't have any ability to commit to trees we discussed yesterday with conservation the potential for planting approximately 20 arborite trees along um that bottom stretch of the parking where it faces dunshire um just to help in the screening from the people that would be parking on this bottom aisle um but until we review overall cost we can't commit to that at this time I mean unless it was a condition of the decision mhm right in one of the past meetings there was discussion about the that was in the culdesac have you talked to DPW about that at all to see if they might be able to change that I have not talked to DPW about that all I stated at the last meeting was that it's not our light and I can't do anything with it um if if the butters who would who have issue with it want to bring it to DPW and ask them they're more than welcome to do so Evan is that something we can bring to Christine yeah I can shoot her an email um remind me is it to dim it or or Shield it Shield it redirect redirect down as opposed to in the neighbors faces okay and there's one in the call I think so yeah right in front of the building it's on the PO to be in compliance doesn't it have to be downward dark sky compliant I suspect if it were in compliance with all the proposals that we've been talking about be fine maybe it might be an older one well if it's an older one bring it up I'll send an email to to Christine yeah anyone else anything else public meeting yeah public I'm sure there's those of you waiting anxiously hello everybody it's I'm James Starkweather at 19 dunshire drive and uh I'm just a little confused about the letters from the DPW going around because I have a letter from Mr uh Ruchi that only required the right of way to be respected and it specifically says parking can be accommodated around the culdesac or in another areas of on street parking nowhere in here does it say it's a temporary solution and now there's another letter but mine's dated November 7th the previous letter was in October that yeah that letter I have one dated November 7th and so it seems like the goalposts are changing and that's not fair to the property owner either and um the other comment later is it's from last year the original one original from oh my bad so I stand corrected that the goal poost still changed there's there's more than one copies of letters and they're everyone they're they're changing the rules on the the property owner also though and uh can can can get one of the drawings back up it doesn't matter which one I just want to sh see the driveway haven't heard any comments on the safety of this driveway because if but it's a blind driveway if you look at it you're going to come down this driveway door door door there's a there's a there's a safety risk here of a blind driveway there's a lot of kids in the neighborhood and no one's mentioned anything about the safety of the plane and the last comment is the plan doesn't even they have to get a variance for the code because uh they they're required by code to have 19 parking spaces for the eight units and they're only asking for 14 and back so it's not even solving the problem and we're losing 16 trees and and wetlands when and if only the DBW could uh Mark the right away I think the problem we could solved with paint there's there's enough area out front to park 14 cars if someone would just paint it and when last time I went down there the DPW hasn't even marked the right away so it's an arbitrary guess of what what space they need and I'm sure there's many many roads in chumford that a ladder truck cannot turn around in so to pick on payad Drive doesn't seem fair either thank you very much so I actually had a conversation with Tony Ruchi uh week ago Thursday I'm sorry you are I'm sorry Michelle Caputo Stark weather 19 on drive so I had a conversation with Tony Ruchi because I said hey what's going on here and his statement was they can't be parking in the middle of the right of way just like you can't park in the middle of Route 3A they can park on the side of the road there's no problem with that at all snow emergencies of course anywhere in chsb Camp park on the side of the road but other than that they can park on the side of the road we have no problem with that so I'm really curious the bylaw here says 19516 a applicability ends with existing buildings and uses need not comply unless expanded or otherwise changed to increase their parking needs so I'm curious why I'm hearing from the owner they're not building a parking lot because they want to they're building a parking lot because they were told they have to but nobody seems to actually think that they did tell them that they just said stop parking in the middle of the right of way the fire engine can't get through when you're parked in the middle of the road nobody in my neighborhood wants that parking lot the owner doesn't want to spend the money to build a parking lot why are we here fussing about building a parking lot cutting down our Wetlands doing all of this destruction and how do we put this to bed like make it stop there's really no reason for this to continue and I also I'm going to just add in my little comment here oop sorry I'm going to approach the that little that little Outlet there which I can't see is actually in the 25 foot no disturb Zone um and that outlet requires a covert it requires digging it requires a lot of things in the no disturb Zone thank [Music] you thank you for your time I'm John Kelly 38 dunai drive and um again she just spoke we really don't see why it was the fire chief isn't here no one's Express has anybody received a letter or a complaint is any are you aware of this fire chief hasn't even come to any the meetings to express any discussion at last night's meeting with the um Conservation Commission they talked about work being done on Freeman Road there houses being built there there boats everywhere there's no way a fire truck can turn away no way even two cars if if a police car went down there you couldn't even pass it coming in the other direction to get an ambulance out so there's no no sense to say that this road is any more restricted than any other Town any other Road in this town there's lots of restrictions as far as dunshire Drive the co is concerned I'm familiar with every piece of blockage along that river right dunshire drive is a is a private is a individual c we have it was built with a asphalt pavement to drain our properties into the BR d theep Brook has been there for years it should be we haven't had we have not had rain for two months now that Brook should be dry yet there's still a heavy flow going through there because there's so much additional work being down up uphill we've got the asphal plant which is growing expeditiously it's growing constantly it used to go one mile up rout three North and now goes nearly a mile and a half we've got all kinds of this all kinds of construction on dun Road all those buildings in Co that was all open land conservation land ABS absorbent land it's now a straight Street down to Dun Dun Road deep Brook runs all the way to Flint Corner along with other tributaries we have more water coming down there than we've ever had before we just had all of last fall last winter after a lot of work we just had all of dunshire Drive reconstructed all of the covers that he speaks of two those ran difficulties we have two 4ot pipes at the exit and two 5-ft pipes at the inlet these were guaranteed for 100 years storm they didn't last two months I don't want to boil you with the pictures but I'm glad you give you copies of it the inlet pipes which are 5 foot pipes are completely underwater causing flooding on all these all the um houses on the inside the perimeter the 4ot pipes are still had a foot of clearance above above for water to pass through dunshire drive I can show you pictures we sandbag all the time my backyard floods monthly it's saturated I cannot comprehend how this parking lot which is thousands of square feet of absorbance grass can now be taken turned into pavement retained in what a twoot deep Pond that pond is going to fill in with leaf and debris about 2 inches a year it's going to overflow not directly in the Deep Brook not directly into the marac it's going to flow into these people's backyards any blockage that you talk about there are five blockages beyond our C there's the one at um there's one right behind cills there's a foot Bridge used to be a Carriage Bridge that nobody's aware of there's the co at 3A which you say we can't do anything about we're working on that but part of the reason that we can't do anything about that because the Chumps it owns the co just beyond that on by um China Blossom which is even smaller the state is reluctant to do anything to that overflowing Co because it makes no point if the water beond it's going to back over the road anyhow then we also have the blockage at the railroad crossing down by South wall ballfields and there's also a foot path that takes a 40 30 to 40 foot wide stretch of deep Brook and restricts it to 5 and 1 12 [Music] ft by making all these little restrictions in the water we spread deep Brook out over shallow long portion of a large portion of property that water is detained in order for us to absorb keep it out of our drivway out of our doors out of our out of our parking lots out of our garages if if you don't allow it you add any more water to that you're filling up those retention areas more and more I don't care how you put it you're putting more retention in there they don't drain as fast we flood faster more often more often more sooner last thing if I can approach what what um on the plan y you see where it says this area is designated for snow removal that area doesn't even consist of two par spes right now I don't know if any of you know anything about plowing a truck has to come down that driveway and you can put all the signs you want and make all the regulations you want you can't they can't go down to the other end and push the snow this way it just doesn't happen the pl's going to go and it's going to be constantly pushing and towards that and especially when there car parked in there and who would plow and park who would pile snow against a building I then that's a has it with in itself so all that snow all that salt all the oil all the gasoline all the transmission fluid windshield washingon all the hazardous material is going to be pushed into that retention Pond all right and fed directly into deep Brook beaver dams if you want to walk through there you don't even have to to get your feet wet I can take you in the backyard and let you pet the Beavers I can show you the dams they live on right the primary cause here if you were going to preserve Wetlands this is your chance to do it what you'll really be doing is saving these people's backyards there's also a health issue I I've worked with the mass mosquito mol Cathedral um and I'm working with them again the last time they they came and dug out the C around us and was in 1918 20 2018 all right they found we're finding that mosquitoes restile virus we're spraying chemical all over the place we're eliminating School sports during during nighttime hours all because of mosquitoes you don't think that this is going to cause any more problems with mosquitoes which is a health hazard maybe a board of heal should look into that also and last but not least last night one of the things a board of um conservation said was they were granted permission for someone to put a pool in the backyard and in order to move a 12 I think an 8 by 12 shed they said well we're going to make the requirements that this shed we wanted a buffer around it so that it would would the rain coming off the roof 12T shed would be absorbed by The Rock and we could store no hesitance material in there by that they meant other than maybe a can of gasoline for a long more we takeing thousands of square feet here of porous land which absorbs water now and we're going to put again hazards chemicals plus the hazards of the of the asphalt and we're going to collect them there and run it off into a pond which is going to overflow and going to not be maintained and it's going to go into these people into our backyards if there was a way that you could make it go towards 3A and into the brook somewhere else but all the all the businesses on 3A whether it's the used car dealership chistor I think is the nail salon that's all asphalt it goes in our Direction and it's stopped by just a SL a slight brim and a bit of stone um crushed stone there's no way you can explain to me a please you if it's possible how we could eliminate thousands of feet of absorbent L absorbent grass which which is basically the buffer we want in our our wetlands and replace it with asphalt and then take all this hazards material all this runoff and put it into somebody else's backyard thank you unless you have any other questions about the other um obstacles I can tell you the people who are currently involved with removal of um uh we trying to get some work done with that construction at southw the foot Bridge also the um what um Mass um David and Zer who's the uh Mass restoration scientist he has come in over looked over a lot of the brook with me and they're looking to funding for a gr money to have it done he's explained to us that this is and he quotes the brook is a cold water fishery good for fish habitat the mamch river located down stream of deep Brook is a is a damis fish run fish that go between fresh water and salt water the downstream barriers is located are an open space and protected I suspect that for us to do anything about it he says I would anticipate Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection 401 qualifying certificate US Army Core of engineer and and on and on and on that they want just for us to do removal of debris Downstream hello Sia Fernandez 27 dunshire Drive um I want to say first of all I appreciate all of your comments I think they have been all been great um as well as my neighbors and also the extra work that the engineering firm has done because there's a few things that they did I think I I like that they looked at some of the stuff it would have been appreciative if there was more that could be done um a lot of the comments that came up at last night's meeting were surrounding the fact that they don't have enough money to do things that's really concerning um for both you know myself and my neighbors because if that's the reason why they can't do what needs to be done you know it's a problem for us because we're in direct relation to it so I'm going to go over a couple points um and questions and just some comments um the first one is off of the DP W letter that the recent one the 1028 24 one where they're talking about they're supposed to be parking parallel to on on street parking that was their request they have yet to this date Park parallel along that road in the kvasac it would be great if they did lights would be less in my bedroom um so I guess my question to all of you here is how when if this parking lot goes through how do we ensure that the overage that they Park parallel along that area and not directly forward because they've yet to comply it's been over a year um and we know that the 14 spaces they have I provided some pictures before they have more than that the parks there today so there will be overage no matter how this goes um so that's kind of like about that portion um the next part if you could go to on that plot plan the page two um because I have a couple questions about this if I come up so this is the one here that's showing all the trees that they talk about that they're removing the one section of pavement that they're going to ask the restaurant if they can remove is this section right here but we know that this pavement goes down and it goes all the way up and it's this whole section I would like to see if they could get the whole pavement removed because some things that that could open up opportunities for is bringing some additional Green Space or something that we've yet to talk about is if this was removed is there any potential to take some of this retention Pond Traverse it a little bit differently have the Outlet come down this way and keep some of the remaining trees that are here as a buffer and keep more of a buffer away from this section and don't put it in our backyards one of the things that keeps on coming up they use different terminology for this area here I've heard inter minute stream I've heard ditch just to clarify this area here where the water currently flows is on dunshire dries property we pay taxes for that we can't use it that's where the water sits and it goes into our backyards but that that's actually on our property so they are pouring water into our backyards no matter how we look at this but I would like to see like in the question I I asked as well as yesterday I'd like to actually make it a requirement if we could to get them to remove this and look at an alternate plan you know if it's something that could be done um we'll keep it there for a sec okay the next thing if you can go to the last page of this plot plan all the way to the bottom yes please um so if actually the one you can go up a little bit so remember when you're looking at this this is turned again right this is actually facing this way if you look at the rest of the pages of the drawing but something on here that they they added that they said to help prevent rotated properly you can leave it let's see yep that's correct so on Stories the area that they're talking about taking is right here right on the pavement its elevation is 102 ft origin it was 103 ft in the center which yes water was flowing perpendicular out this way they're digging that down they said that they're creating a BM here it's not clear to me on the drawing which we can go down in a minute to look what that looks like cuz to me it looks like a straight path it still looks like to me that water is going to flow in here you know they say it's not but I I'm not clearly understanding how it's going to be diverted out and that again is the untreed water coming in if you scroll down um to the the sorry if you can flip it again here they give you guys a side view and this is where you can see the burm top being 102 ft um so a question that I have because between the two design that they previously presented and this design um in the old design the wear overflow is at 101.5 ft it's currently at 100.7 ft so in the new design they actually brought this down lower for the Overflow so that means that what it's going to I hit our backyards a little quicker I understand that they're diverting appreciative of that attempt um but as you can see and we talked about that a little bit earlier it's 100.2 ft for this overflow so it's going to start flowing out earlier into our properties the question I have about this overflow pipe I'm not seeing any rip wrap at the end of this so what's helping with the soil erosion of what's coming out of this pipe so that's kind of like a question but the question to the engineer that I have is what volume of water did this retention pond in your design hold before it overflowed previously to your new design how much volume of water is it holding before it starts coming out into through this orice because that's obviously going to be the first point because even though they added this section it's not going to hold any water it's going to like he said he even said it was going to roll off right it's going to come down here give you a little bit maybe a surface for the water to go into but it it doesn't I gu that they're holding the water appreciative but we're all talking about like trees and you know making things better I don't there's I think there's other ways that could be done here to do it so see um last night and at the previous meeting like I said before a lot of things were being brought up about cost about you know they can't do stuff well the fencing you walk the property that fencing is falling apart everywhere the section that was over by me I actually think I zip tied a board up because people were walking through um it's it's really bad and I was surprised tonight to hear that they said they were going to take some of the good sections from the other side and repair the fence in this side because that wasn't what was said last night last night we were told they're not repairing it because they didn't have them a funding for it so again I have concerns with maintenance of the property if they can't afford to maintain their property today and they said that they're going to maintain the property of the pond because it's a requirement where else is the property going to suffer right if they can't maintain it today and we don't make it a requirement that they get these things done they'll never get done like if we don't ask them to remove that pavement they won't do it um and that's that's frustrating right and just a quick couple of comments I know a lot of people have talked about different stuff um the dumpster they have is definitely better than it was before but there is no proper recycling storage in my opinion um I think I provided pictures of that before they have two bins for I think eight units I have two bins for my house that I fill up Weekly right of recycling they're constantly being blown over fall over and because the fence is in a disrepair in that area stuff's always getting through um they trash even though it's like I said enclosed and good they never actually shut the fence like you're supposed to in the bylaws um and it's open animals are always dragging stuff out again I'd like to see if I could ask to have them come up with a proper recycling portion to be added to this because there's no reason why an apartment complex shouldn't have something for people to recycle sustainability right we're all trying to go after that today um I think that was kind of most of it they did talk about arities last night um we all try growing those in our area they're not really a great viable option I still would like to see them do something for helping you know provide a little bit of you know Wildlife protection if this is the direction that this thing goes but you know overall I'd really like to see that pavement gone and seeing another Poss ability of bringing the water a different direction if possible so that's my stuff so thank you hello uh Amilia kuto star weather 19 D Sher Drive last night at conservation I spoke pertaining to concerns about pollutant from the existence of a parking lot in pond however tonight I wanted to speak in that line but in the original drawing of the pond and in the plans it's the type it's in their one of their supplemental data reports it's page nine but I think that'd be like in the 50s of the actual document and so they originally modeled it only on payet drainage and then at the request of concerned Butters they modeled other uh properties that would potentially drain on to pet basically doubling their water that would go onto their Pond um after insisting that it was inconsequential and in their original drawings a 2-year storm would infiltrate entirely in the ground with its 3,000 odd cubic feet now in a 2-year storm that a same 3,000 nearly 4,000 cubic feet infiltrates into the ground well 2,467 cubic feet discharge to the covert so now they're putting water where it's like what else have they failed to account for are we supposed to feel confident when we were assured that water from other properties were inconsequential when they double it now and just once again with the cost things if they don't they're asking for variance after variance they can't meet signs they can't meet Landscaping if they have neither the space nor the money for this project why should we on dunshire feel comfortable that our properties will not be at that expense payad is uphill from us they will not flood dunshire floods so are we supposed to feel confident that our properties won't be damaged or destroyed because payot has a parking lot that they shouldn't have been allowed to build in the first place or unwisely built and so I guess a lot of us really are very concerned at why does this property have to happen when the bylaws don't really seem to stress that I mean in Boston and in l in other larger cities there's no obligation for your building to provide parking this was built in the' 60s there isn't parking it's inconvenient for the residents but should we inconvenience the entirety of dunshire drive for their convenience of parking and so I feel like a lot of our concerns haven't been alleviated yet thank you very much okay got a couple other questions okay I have a couple other comments but I'll let you do your questions first Casey is there an OP is there an opportunity to elongate that pond up on that side of the so Castor paved that several years ago our client the property owner is going to proceed uh with attempting to have castori remove that um but we don't have any intention of changing the pond the pond meets all requirements as is and we don't have any intention of elongating it redirecting it um as it meets the requirements as shown okay um the doors that are along that driveway are those regular standard exit doors are they back doors or they're exit doors but they're there's probably about four five steps to each of them so they come out if you're looking at the side of the building here they come out on the side so they don't actually go directly out into the driveway the door comes out into a concrete pad which then has stairs that goes down the side of the building to where you then enter the driveway Evan can you zoom in on that one so that the one along the that one does but what about the one in the corner that one yeah yep so this one also has steps that goes down forward to the driveway but there is a 5ft concrete pad and then also a concrete pad at the bottom of it okay so it's about 10 ft from the driveway yeah I'd probably say it's about 10 ft from from the door to the driveway okay I drove down that and in my little Subaru I felt really like well don't forget that driveway is getting widened from 13 to 20 feet as well is would it be possible to put that the walkway sideways towards the other doorway so it joins up with that other walkway rotating the staircase no not the stairs but when you come down the stairs instead of stepping off into the driveway you'd be directed to the right well if you had a 5 foot walkway at the bottom of the stairs that's just going to bring you to the edge of the curve anyway so even if you ran the sidewalk this way yeah it's still the same amount of concrete as it would show here and people would just continue to go that way yeah but if you have maybe a railing fence directing people so you're not stepping into the you're not stepping into the driveway right at that blind Corner you're going down a little bit further so one of the options that I was discussing um earlier this afternoon was the potential of adding so this fence is there's going to be a fence installed I should have just stayed up there there's going to be a fence installed or the fence is going to be installed along the property line here um maybe we could add a mirror on the fence that allows that's angled so that people driving in can see that blind corner I think that is something that we could offer so that on basically anyone driving here isn't actually blind to what's coming off of that corner I think if you added a railing right along or adjacent to that that curve line you're going to affect the stability of the curb that it's up against as well I know this letter was meant to answer these questions but now I feel like I'm not quite satisfied can I highlight one portion of that letter which is what we've been working on or working off of since basically the entirety of this begin in um so essentially what happened is they sent a letter and then they had a follow-up meeting with the owner the owners and it ended with furthermore the meeting concluded with the understanding that the owning group would hire an engineering firm to design a more permanent and appropriate parking area to accommodate the vehicles that are in the culdesac and then construct it to move the cars completely off of the street they were informed that due to the location Conservation Commission approval would be required okay can we revisit that I mean is Evan like can we think outside the box and ask I mean you I haven't been involved in those conversations I was involved in the meeting that uh I mentioned in my understanding is that the applicant through Casey has met with the with Tony Ruchi the town engineer multiple times the board can certainly um articulate specific questions and attempt to engage to provide there any other way to do this besides building a concrete parking lot in the back in a woodlands so you know I think one of the abutters did ask this there there the applicant is attempting to comply with what they believe um DPW is either requesting or requiring right and so they've submitted uh zoning permits and Wetland permits uh to do so there there is nothing uh this I think the butter kind of uh suggested this if the planning board doesn't want a parking lot there or wants a smaller parking lot there on private property the board can um indicate that and indicate indicate its willingness to Grant uh reductions either in in its entirety or partially I'm not suggesting that that solves the problem it's still not clear to me if DPW is suggesting that they don't want any parking along the curb line of the CAC I would like to see if we could get that point clarified I think Casey has clarified that um we may need to hear that again what I'm piecing together is that if the if the existing lad truck cannot accommodate the um the size of this undersiz culdesac um and if there are cars parked at the curb that would essentially mean that the town would likely go in at once this parking lot is built the town would likely go in and then sign the cues act no parking they would treat it differently than than other uh town-owned roads assuming that the facts are that it is under ized I think that's what I heard Casey say correct and that may be why DPW has indicated that um the long-term solution is no parking once the private parking lot is built what year was this building built 1962 so they've been dealing with this since 1962 they've been using this cack yep correct and plowing in come and what happens can I ask you a question what happens when there's a snow storm do the cars stay there and the plows go around them or do the the uh we plow uh and or my name is Kathy Romberg um my parents owned the building and we inherited it my sister and I um but we have been plowing the parking area of the culdesac for all the years that we have owned it and um around the cars all the way out to 3A or just the just just the area where our cars were parked the town basically drives in and plows straight in and we've been taking care of the rest for and we've um we've owned the building since I think the early 70s early 70s late 60s um I don't we suest they suggest that they stripe the culdesac for proper parking and work with the town on a a pathway around those cars but it sounds like DPW doesn't want that it's been here since 1962 they've got to come to the table I I think yeah I I I think the town needs to figure out what exactly they want us to do um so that we can do it you know our funds are not unlimited um and did the town say what they're going to do if uh if you don't comply to expens they're going to tell well this this is why the applicant is complying I mean the discussion was that they had a certain amount of time for a good faith effort this is the good faith effort so what happened between 1962 and 2023 change in DPW people well that should be addressed okay what about another thought can we be totally you guys are going to think I'm crazy but outside the box could we have a like collaboration with the town and maybe the restaurant and maybe use some CPC funds to buy up that little strip of land and take out the parking lot and get the tree committee to come in and plant some trees and increase the green space and protect the I mean like it's quite the collaboration we apply for a grant to do that and can we get the DPW to get off our back until that for what it's worth castory when he plowed over when he paved over that area did not ask for permission right so he could probably be made to remove it anyway he no longer owns it okay so that's yeah thank you and the reason they they paved it is because their delivery trucks had a hard time making it around the back of the restaurant I see okay thank you you I mean I don't know like we we see all these grants for the grants are for um public infrastructure not private infrastructure yeah okay but if we made that a public Green Space and it improved you know the wetlands and improved the water drainage and it and it preserved a wildlife habitat and it if it were if it if it were town-owned or we could prove uh at the time of application that it were Town owned I mean but I don't think it's going to improve the drainage in that space if we extended the pond it might I mean at that at that point if the to if the town were contemplating buying land to solve a a problem why wouldn't the town contemplate um selling portions of the culdesac no different than you know some of the P the private ways that the planning boards approved my understanding is that all of those conversations have taken place and I think if if if Casey or the applicant got any indication from DPW and fire that that the cesac that there were alternatives to be discussed as part of the cuac I think the plan likely would have been revised by now correct you know the the the commission and either of you can articulate this better than me but in watching the uh the commission's meetings uh they asked for uh DPW to attend uh so that this this kind of Engagement could take place and uh that was not that was not offered so clearly Tony and other DPW are are engaged with people the public the you know the applicant uh who are uh looking to ask questions and then they're communicating uh to the planning board in conom through their through their written memos and this all came about because there was an incident they couldn't get through like how did they find like yeah I don't know the specifics um but as the memo indicates I mean there this I think the this formerly uh became a town um a town interest or priority back in uh 2023 August I'm not suggesting that police and fire DPW weren't on the road prior to 2023 no I but I like wonder if something I can't tell you what the specifics were the first meeting I attended um the police fire DPW had already been engaged and I was invited because um they knew that we'd be talking about a private parking lot I I think it would be helpful to hear from someone from police and and a fire because they're the folks that are going to be out on that road if there's a problem in the middle of the night and it would help help I think it would help us make a decision as to what are the consequences if we don't approve this and DPW DPW well if we don't approve it they're they have no place to park and they've already said they're going to get towed right right so there's so let's assume the private parking lot goes away MH they can either attempt to uh resolve the the parking lot the curb which it sounds like DPW and Fire have have basically determined that that's not a long-term option because the called The Sex undersized then the only other option for the applicant is to seek uh offsite shared parking Arrangements um that's not an ideal situation particularly for a a residential development um but that that is a legal option so I think I think within the context they're attempting to comply I mean they told the town they do a good faith effort and they they're certainly doing that but it's also clear to me that DPW and Fire have been re-engaged a number of occasions and there doesn't seem to be any um any alternatives U being being explored so if we ask for them to come to to a meeting they probably wouldn't come their response was we respectfully reject your request but they go to they they go to the V Square committee meeting DPW you can make you you can certainly make the request what uh what Casey's um indicating is that the commission made uh made that request yeah toight well I think we should make that request okay does anybody have a letter we have a letter it's in our packet it's from wh gpw it's an old letter based upon the initial plan no the October 28th 24 one October 7th a review letter October oober 28th 24 is that on open one it's in the packet so if someone if the restaurant paved without a permit doesn't regardless of how long it's been there doesn't the town have the right to have them tear it up it's a second to the bottom on the packet under new docents own it yeah the town may have um zoning enforcement um opportunities on the former cast story um I wasn't aware of the extent of the um the encroachment in the recent the recent Paving up until this evening's conversation um so the town certainly I mean that's that's a zoning violation that amount of Paving would require planning board approval storm water calculations things of that nature I we can pursue that like I mean that may not I think we should yeah but I mean we should they have I mean all this flooding that can help at all MH we should definitely pursue that well whether it would help our not I mean we just can't have people going around Paving Wetlands right no no I mean as you know I mean between uh board members conservation planning board and staff we catch a lot from the street sometimes it's it's it's more difficult if it's behind a building and so forth uh but like I said I'm surprised at least I'm putting that you know figuring that out tonight I wasn't aware that wasn't really highlighted I think in Prior meetings is the conservation agent aware of that so because they have they have authority to uh in that matter too I know Michelle kopo star weather 19 dunshire drive I'm back again so there was a question about like could we have other Town parking and a conversation I had with one of the convers uh Conservation Commission members yesterday was that um also in a butter of four pet and my house 19 dunshire is um the Frank Brocks conservation area which apparently nobody knows we have but are mapping GIS as we do and when I went and looked it's owned by the town Conservation Commission um it is literally apparently the concept of we're just going to pave wherever we want at Castor was in place there too they have parking right there at the Frank Brocks con Conservation Commission uh property right there there's a whole big section if you're looking at the leftand parking lot side of the the building that whole leftand side belongs to the town can we just stripe it and let people park there it's actually off the road it's and it would be legal chumford parking would that be an acceptable option I don't actually know how big that is in terms of like how many spots because yeah I have no concept of like size and distance and how many cars fit and things but I I actually sent an email this afternoon to all of you and to the Conservation Commission saying hey here's the lot here's the page blah blah blah and you own it so if maybe we could do something with that maybe that would allow for parking that the way over there it's Town parking I mean it depends on the covenants and all that thank you right thank you to go on 3 down okay still it should be should be paided shouldn't beid SE issue Sia Fernandez 27 DCH J this will be quick but just to give you guys a little bit of what it looks like for when they were parking there prior to November of 2023 if you bring up the Culvert not the kvasac picture I can explain it a little bit because I see it um so when they have this here um the majority of the parking is later in the day in the evening during the day if you go there it could be fairly open there might be nobody there when they were parking here previously and you can actually look at the old visions of Google Maps and see the lines in the road um at some point pallet Drive painted lines in this section and made a parking lot here and if you were driving around this area like when we first moved there like 10 years ago some cars there but over time a lot more cars were tending to get in here so not only were we using this section they were starting to park here um they were blocking even like their own areas here it it was all over the place to the point that if they were having like events cuz sometimes they were having that using that back area and actually having some parties this was completely full and you could see the fire trucks coming in here and they get stuck like out here the cops would come they'd be over here they couldn't actually get through and um when they after they moved the dumpster I think I told you before the dumpster is on my property for years it took me about three three years to get them to remove it when they put the dumpster over here they actually lost a few parking spaces because they had a few more in this area what happens now when they Park after you know they were still in here before the town made the move the D the TR the truck that takes picks us up Dum truck couldn't actually get in here and at 4 5:00 in the morning literally this is their first stop they're blaring their horn trying to get people to move um they now come a little bit later CU I contacted them and asked not all the time um but when they're parking here even straight out sometimes they're still blocking the access to this dump truck and they still can't get in there and that's a problem and like I said I'd like to see what it looks like if they actually were parking parallel you know to the side of the road because that would probably alleviate some of this but you got to remember they're not showing you the full picture you have a condo over here as well and the condo over here has a road so they're trying to get through to their area and sometimes when they have overflow parking is all their parkings here it they go into this area so you have a lot of cars that can end up here got it and then just one other thing the snow removal the town would come in do a straight line in and straight line out because they couldn't actually plow around the cars pallet drive would come in with their plow person and they would plow all their snow into my yard through a I've actually had that snow fence out there it's ugly it's orange they they plow into that all the time they're the ones that dug I told you the drainage actually off a pallet Drive was removed in 1996 and they put in the sewer they dug a ditch around that time that all this stuff was occurring because I was contacting the town about what the hell is going on they dug a ditch to drain and their plow guy what does he do plows the snow right into the ditch because that's where he's going with all the stuff so definite concerns with this over here but this is a mess it's it's not that big when you're in there with all these cars so it is a safety hazard because these if there's somebody that needs a medical emergency they can't get there I get it yeah so thank you so procedurally at the direction of the the board I will send that email request to DPW DPW and fire should we can we assemble a list of questions for them you can certainly send them to me um my my anticipation is that they're going to respectfully decline physically attending at the end of the day could they Zoom attend I mean I'll I'll we can we can we can make that invite at the end of the day unless there's some um you know change from DPW you the planning board similar with the Conservation Commission you have valid applications in front of you so the point I'm making is that I think this this the commission attempted to do this exact Outreach for their last night's meeting it dates back probably two three weeks planning board appears to be interested in replicating that I just don't understand why we can't have a conversation with DPW we're an elected board by the town representing the town they work for the town they work for us as as residents they should attend Upon Our request I'm part of the vinyl square committee it's all volunteers they all attend those meetings and that happens at night as well they should be here and I would recommend that we don't make a decision until they come in front of us and ask tell us why they're they're making this neighborhood do this especially when we have conflicting information on letters that's just my take and I don't know if you guys agree with that or disagree with that I agree with that I mean I I feel like it's kind of asking a question you don't know the answer to to just have a discussion with them why can't we have this discussion right we don't know the answer right but for 61 years it worked here what's changed well well that's what I'd like to hear cuz I guarantee you they're going to have they must have responded to some kind of complaint I think they just dream this up out of random no I agree they went here for something right and obviously like between the two apartment buildings this is like I I can see this area getting mhm you know filled right cuz it's this apartment building and the other one in this spot but again is there something we can do maybe there could be overflow gust parking somewhere else on on the party right or some is there some other way of approaching this um with this culdesac and to your point like where are all the new cars coming from like when was the other apartment building built well I mean when this was built in 62 that most residents didn't have two or more cars right and now in 2023 people would have had two more cars in the 80s yes yeah they should they and it's probably been there for many years all right so action points we're going to ask the DPW to please come I would like to I mean this could be a this could be a template for a collaboration between go ahead keep going conservation the tree commission CPC like is that ridiculous for us to think about trying something like that or could you take it offline and have a collaboration not at night if they don't want to attend at night have a meeting during the day with representatives of the Conservation Commission the planning board and the neighborhood there with the DPW and fire and and police [Music] and yeah high heart and neighborhood that would include us yes you would have a representative there thank you I mean that's what I mean there would be representatives of everybody wouldn't be a to the whole public to have a collaborative meeting if they don't want come at night but maybe we we'll meet them at their turn until 9: to 5 and and and meet with them I mean or at least get some answers why is this being forced I don't know are we barking up a wrong tree here Evan I think we are right I mean I can hear it see it I can only tell you what has played out over the last you know 30 days but I also I want to again look at this other piece of property that has paved over conservation and with that then talk to you know like what is what impact would that be having that torn up if it's true indeed it was paved how does that affect the storm water with DPW how does that affect all the drainage and what about the over paved area that may allow for this parking lot to be like that if we're maybe fixing that can we fix some of these issues that could allow some sort of parking this parking in the back in the back like that may be in a a different way of kind of getting everybody on the same page but I mean I do feel for these folks that we're not helping the situation by just adding this parking lot um and they may not and DPW may not have been aware right like I mean they may not have been aware that you again this is like a little bit taking the steps yeah I mean final comment my understanding is that DPW has indicated that they are not forcing a parking lot to be built I don't think they care if a private parking lot is built they own the road uh and it's clear to me that they don't want to treat this cuac differently than any other cuac in the town they don't want to set precedents where individual cucs can be treated differently fair enough yeah so that's why I think you're you're not seeing them Mark the curb line because if they do it here then another called the sax may may request the same thing um you know so and I don't think they want to engage in PL wood business as it pertains to whether to approve or not to approve I mean their their review is pretty limited from a technical perspective so but Evan in some ways they are forcing well they they'll tell you they will tell you if they hav them put it in writing that there none of their letters are requiring them to build a parking lot nor are they suggesting you know any any particular solution no but cars have to go so somewhere correct and correct the likely logical understood understood so the applicant rightfully so the only thing that they have in their control is is their back parking lot is their backyard right and that's a convenient in an investment on in their property so who's going to start Towing the cars I guess like fire department and police department so can we at least explore the reasons that the parking is no longer being allowed that and then what would happen to the drainage like can we at least explore that whole the thing that the town owns that's paved well that was going to be the thing I was going to say is that certainly we should ask the zoning enforcement officer to take a look at that yeah the cast the illegal Paving on the former castor's property uh we will pursue enforcement conservation planning uh Building Commissioner that timeline is not going to align itself right very nicely with this time that would be I mean that would be a reason to have a meeting with uh the people who are forcing this to occur to to talk about the relative timelines involved and sure sure because if that right because if that becomes like again like if exactly just leave it at that I'll send the email I mean there's you know you know for what it's worth there's nothing preventing froming the timeline yep y do we have time to try and find a better solution then a parking lot in the backyard 6 years I'll I'll send the email if if the chair Vice chair if you between today and tomorrow you want to reach out directly let me know and to Christine Clancy or who it be it be uh to start with Tony the town engineer who's the primary Point person on this they'll engage I don't they'll engage privately because I know that they have um there just seems to be an unwillingness to engage in a in a public for okay but I'll plan on sending the email tomorrow if I if I I if I don't hear otherwise no please do and then I'll all right okay all right I think we have one more question to come up you have question then we're going to close this I'll continue John Drive um this has going on for 60 years I don't think would to delay in another 30 days or three months would make a big difference it's a significant decision I'm going to pass out round one photo this happens on dunshire Drive every every single month I can show you that time dates and all that all that you want the fact that you when you say to me you don't want to let someone have a public meeting that doesn't sound like a very very much transparency I'd like to know have we towed any Vehicles out of there has the fire department anybody ticking in anybody or is it just simple there's a lot of roads that we have to allow a little bit of a leeway I think oh we just using this one little section of a of a bylaw or something that from 60 that we planted years ago as an excuse just because we want to build a parking lot for the convenience of the building it would be probably advantageous to them to have a parking lot on their own property U and by the way do they have to have one for an electric car thank you okay I will did you want to say something I actually just want to request some feedback based on the actual plan in front of you additionally because we've talked a lot about Alternatives but you know if in the case that that doesn't turn out over the next few weeks or a month I also want to have feedback on the plan that you do have so what H cuz we can also make the parking lots smaller if the town allows them to park like around like properly around the C parallel park yeah if we get some of the if we get some of the cars out of the parking lot right so if we can get something from DPW that would say that as a long-term solution they'd additionally allow parallel and maybe we can come up with an amount that could safely be accommodated we could reduce that from the par parking lot and request a further reduction from parking requirements through the special permit process that we're in now um but we definitely eight units eight units correct and and basically what we're proposing in front of you is 16 parking spaces which is the amount that Kathy feels that they need as part of this uh for the tenant twoed units they're two bedroom units and we would basically limit them to two cars per unit and right now there are at least a couple of units that have only one person in them and therefore only one car right Ian maybe there could we could figure out a way you could figure out a place for overflow parking we have um the we can have our management company you know keep a record of the allowed um allow CS right you know what I don't want to get into that right now yeah thank you I am I think we're going to continue the public hearing so the only thing I would request is if there is feedback that I could have based on the plan so that for next time I could have additional information I would I would just like to have the opportunity maybe if you could figure out what would be what would be manageable parking spaces based on the the regulated size of a parking space that could go around for a parall paring based on the town's requirement for a parallel parking space yeah and then how many that would be and then how that would change the size of the parking lot so I guess my next question would be would we seek to have this let's call it collaborative meeting with DPW prior to the next hearing here because that would dictate I guess the future direction of the design of this project so if they were to be agreeable to that then obviously we have design changes to make to reduce right so so I think we should try and do it as soon as possible if they're willing to do it and just for clarity the applicants invited to that collaborative meeting of course okay I just want to make sure and Casey I gave you feedback already on some I did I have yours written down Chris okay um December 11th is your next regularly scheduled meeting we have one more person who wants to speak for the I think third time MH does it what do you guys think sure just real quick come on up come on up might as well get all the information they'll be off the so s the Fernandez 27 dunshire drive if they were to go off of the parallel parking my only ad would be could they build a freaking fence to block that section and on their you know not on my property um that would be the request because I think they could definitely fit some cars if it was clearly marked because there's also that section that goes up there's no reason why maybe one side of that long way could be done um but just the fence would be great okay I'll take a motion move to continue the public hearing to December December 11th we going have time December 11th yes yeah second motion by Mike raisbeck second by Anita all in favor I all right thank you all very much for your time okay recovered from that okay next up we have 10 Independence Drive waiting so patiently sorry obtaining a special permit for an adult daycare so working primarily working Session One hearing thank good evening uh for the record uh again Adam Costa meet tellman and Costa representing the applicant so we were before you a few weeks ago we presented our uh plan for redevelopment of a portion of what most of you know is the Rison Hotel uh within adult daycare we presented the plan to you uh our engineering consultant to walk through the particulars of the site plan uh much of which is remaining uh the same as it has historically been uh and then what followed was a discussion about um certain concerns I don't want to characterize or speak for board members but certain concerns that the board uh had about uh exterior circulation uh queuing with respect to the drop off of of individuals um sufficiency of of parking and the proximity of some of those parking spaces to the entrance to the facility uh so uh I'm going to I'm going to turn the mic over in a moment and allow uh hushi to walk you through the particulars of the revisions we've made to the plan uh in the past couple of weeks to try to address those concerns a combination of restructuring uh the parking areas uh providing a lengthier queuing area uh changing the the the circulation so it's one way in certain locations cutting off other areas so uh without further Ado I'll let hushi walk through that and then certainly we can respond any any questions that board members might have thank you thank you good evening who offsh short hge engineering so even if you could go to last sheet A4 please keep going yeah can you zoom out so one uh question or comment was that uh show clearly the limits and boundaries of the floor area being used by the daycare so as you can see that entire area which is being used either by the dayare directly or as a support uh for the for running of the daycare is hatched here uh in addition to the floor area being used by the residents and the administrative office the nurses office and so on so forth in the back as we mentioned last time also the kitchen the existing Kitchen in the back um which is which is uh being used only to serve the needs of the uh adult daycare area is also hatched and the corridor in between the two which is being used just for um food traffic between the kitchen and the uh data radio mhm so that was one of the comments which uh I hope you have addressed your satisfaction going back the so there's two um the rooms on the my right that are white then what is the access to those those areas if it's not through before that used you could access it through that hallway that's now designated strictly for the adult daycare so what is the access to those the access is the um that a set of stairs that you can see on the bottom right corner of the page and also from the back okay and they Ed for those rooms really to be decided we don't know but they are not definitely part I just wanted to see there was access to access they have their own independent access in terms of the hatched bit will be securely contained correct yes of course nobody else really needs to go there people to other areas have their own access hotel has their own access but there are three doors one to the lecture room one to the meeting room and one to the hallway are those going to be secured doors exit only or th those are actually uh those rooms actually the way it's labeled it's from the past the it's it's to be decided what those rooms are going to be for to be used but in terms of daycare yes they they are being secured and the only reason you have access from daycare area into that hallway that comes out of the building is an egress a second ESS that's it right but there's also door to the meeting room and then to the lecture room from those there there are and we can secure those doors I mean this is one of these circumstances where if we were building this and we were starting with a blank slate we wouldn't build space we don't need so we wouldn't build these additional rooms um we had meant to and it didn't occur to us until literally we reviewed these an hour before the meeting that these labels had been kept on there because we had discussed amongst ourselves just putting TBD because of course we have a whole second story that is TBD uh there's going to be something additional occurring with this building in the future we don't know what is right now we're going to need permission from this board and maybe from others to do anything further um that hasn't yet been determined but this is just an area of space that exists we don't need it for the adult daycare and so we're just trying to segregate it off on paper by showing you an area that's cross-hatched an area that's not um but we will have to provide a secure um connection between the two we're not going to you know uh uh drywall over the door but we will cause some lock so that it's not in inaccessible okay and it won't be used in connection with the proposal that's before we could put that as a condition as well yeah sure thank you and yet there is a a door at the end of the corridor from the daycare into the into the hallway into the corridor it's not a direct connection uh going back to if I may Madam chair go to S plan the parking um going to the S plan we did uh made the uh traffic circulation One Way MH in front of the building where you access the adult daycare for theop entrance and the the hotel we provided a longer space for the queue in case um some of the residents want to be um uh dropped off you know what their family members and in case there's a queue uh otherwise there are fulls sizee Vans for transportation we added also one more space for the van access handicapped area in front uh and also we basically manage to relocate all the if I may to relocate all the parking required for the daycare just in this area mhm and here and this is of course for the uh employees or those who are going to uh staff members and although in big parking areas like a mall or a big shopping plaza like we have here even in town it's not customary to put a crosswalk within the parking areas maybe some of the um you know aisles where there is uh main aisles but in these parking areas usually traffic is probably 5 miles per hour or so but we we did manage to put a um crosswalk here for this area and then right from this handicapped area we also put a crosswalk right into the ramp which W which goes right into the into the building for easy access of the handicap MH um we have plenty of oh we did add um the sign is here um um uh five R-1 then know one one oneway sign here and one oneway sign here um I didn't get time to put the logo of the sign itself like this one but this but but the indication uniform traffic manual those are the labels for oneway oneway sign which will be put here and here uh and these are the no enter sign two here and two here where the traffic Flows In One Direction mhm um um the the canopy remains as it is it's uh it's it's could come to a modern a flat roof canopy but the clearance the existing clearance of the canopy for the hotel doesn't change although it has got really nothing to do with the with the daycare but I said said it in case some something big vehicle with that needs a high clearance can can go through can drive through we added some landscape area here here here and then here we added three islands landscape islands with light pole this hatched area at the very end shows all the extra reserved parking it it it's not uh the the the picture doesn't show it here but we have about um all the way to the right please sorry 47 yes we have about how many says it says 40 additional parking available 47 47 extra parking after allocating all the entities on the on the parcel they required parking spaces so with that if I could answer any question okay anyone have any questions or comments nope I'm good thank you Joel mik all good Anita all good Chris nope okay oh my and I have none you're just tired actually I do have a comment I do appreciate the changes that you've made to the traffic flow I think it's definitely an improvement I do too sure I'm tired too actually the applicant was marking up yesterday till 5:00 p.m. all right does anyone else um from the public want to speak or make comments or have questions motion to close public hearing seeing none motion I'll take a motion we'll move that second motion by Mike second by Anita I all in favor I sorry tired um okay I'll take another motion your turn before we get to that I just had one thing that I thought of um in that little S I wrote it down as a potential condition but I want to make sure that they're agreeable to it okay um in the section where you have the four adult daycare parking spaces that used to be an access I believe is there a possibility of putting like a sign in the middle of those four saying to prevent no cutting through for people who are used to that you're you're talking about a sign here yeah to prevent people from cutting through there if those spaces are empty little baby Jersey things parking blocker office what where was that again can you can you point it to me I couldn't see two places two spaces facing each other you don't want any any anybody drive through yeah cuz if those are empty people could potentially go straight around that traffic circle and right cutting through stops the easiest solution would be wheel stop yeah something like that on both sides on on all the forest stalls maybe a tree or two between maybe not there tree you you going to all four wheel stops one for each parking spot exactly yes I will we can do you want to make that a condition then yeah that's it that's probably the easiest solution than putting a guard drill or anything that's fine especially if it's handicapped people walking around so I would like to make a motion that we approve this just a special permit right collection of them actually because there just one just one for the use just one okay we approve the special permit with the condition of the four wheel stops as well as the condition to secure the two doors at the um meeting room and the other room and the egress only into the hallway second motion by Chris second by Anita on in favor I okay good luck thank you thank you we appreciate it thank you sorry it took us so long sorry Nancy we took even longer for you but Nancy Chen here before us for the purpose of creating three new residential apartments at 313 Littleton Road requesting approval under SEC article 21 Community enhancement and invest seid and I'm going to stop there I have nothing to say because last time um there is a missing letter from Jose and then he just sent it to you I think the day before yesterday or something like that yeah would you like that R into the record yeah yes so we have a letter from dated November 6 from Jose nron Building Commissioner DMS Chen this letter is to inform you that per my recent visit to your property for the reinspection of units 14 and 21 these units are no longer in zoning violation as illegal Apartments regarding the other proposed extra units to the to the planning board be advised that if the extra units are to be approved by the planning board your entire building has to comply with all current building fire and energy and a registered design professional shall further assist you with all construction plans and code reviews as part of the permit application to the building department thank you respectfully Jose nran okay so do we want to confirm the applicant agrees to that what was the letter again I'm sorry Jose I specifically asked he's just he's just clarifying what will be required as part of the building permit application yeah theis okay so I just want to be sure you understand what what he's asking and that you are in agreement with that yeah we did uh before um around the the end of last year the beginning of the this year okay for this one unit yeah so what he is basically expressing to you in this letter you agree with yes okay I mean every time we do remodeling we have to get a building permit and yeah okay thank you shall we okay um anyone have any other questions for Nancy and is there anyone that else that would like to speak move to close the okay hearing the motion to close the public hearing made by Mike second second I need up okay um so hi discussion oh we have the vote on I I I sorry um so we're viewing this under 195 d111 right M seid applicability for applicability are we no no this is approving is special it's a by it's a by right this is the big subsections 19 oh c if I WR should we have further discussion I'm going to be a no on this project um I don't think that this is what the mixed use is intended for um in terms of mixing commercial and residential on the same floor I think that the layout of this building does not allow that um to be easily done and I don't think that this is going to be a a a workable um proposal so can I ask would you be amendable if the whole floor was residential potentially with the right controls in place what controls would you need for access to the different axess that's the building inspector right okay but we talk about it in a lot of other projects as well we just talked about it at the prior yeah project yeah I agree I mean this is like pie work here like we have one apartment like let's change this build like again if this is in in investment and we're changing the whole overall either the entire building or making downstairs commercial upstairs residential that's what the project like I would be amendable here too not peace work here let's put this apartment here like come to me with a valid project um so I'm a no I agree with Chris I I thought we discussed this uh two we've we've closed the public here we we close the public hearing oh sorry just take a you can take a seat and oh okay sorry Mike I don't have any comments what you asking for comments or yeah I was asking for comments they're telling you okay Joel I agree that that it's not ideal in that sense but I on the other hand I think that the controls are in there that we asked for and so I I would vote Yes even though I think that it's not necessarily what I would have asked for M but I think at least meets the minimum requirements so I completely agree with Joel and John I have concerns for the reasons not to repeat that that Chris stated earlier as well on this project okay um all right so um should we take a vote or take a motion to close the we're closed well we've already to so I guess I'll just take a motion I would uh I will move that uh we Grant whatever it is you were asked to Grant here figure out exactly what it is purpose of creating three residential apartment at 313 Littleton Road yep thank you under seid motion by Mike second by anyone I'll second motion by Mike rebeck second by mik Walsh um okay take a vote all in favor three in favor for post no wait I what did I just didn't get the count what three yeses three yes okay who was opposed opposed is Mike Walsh Anita Chris and John okay motion fails motion fails we need a simple majority okay um I'll write that I'll write that decision up no close the publish comment um I'm sorry that we closed the public hearing okay that's so I mean my recommendation to you Nancy is that you talk to um Evan tomorrow tomorrow and discuss what options you can bring us and you you can bring us the same plan within two years or you can bring us a significantly different plan in a shorter time frame and since the majority of the dis disagreement over the plan had to do with the fact that there's multiple things happening on the same floor that might be an opportunity for you to in to um explore further would be my suggestion I'm sorry the public hearing is closed I'm giving you a suggestion we voted and it failed and we're not discussing further but you that doesn't mean you don't have options of things you could do move on to the next agenda item what's that you want to move on to the next agenda item uh suggest we blow through the minutes and get them out of the way the minutes I think was and and uh liaison reports right so does anyone have any liaison reports I haven't lied lately we had a vinyl square meeting last night um good it was a small group of us with a bunch of DPW people there apparently uh well they show up all the time they usually have good representation there uh do they all live in North uh no the police show up I mean it's just interesting how uh they like that committee but um which is great but um was are going to that committee no they' they've got a lot of different things going they're trying to grow the committee more in in commitments of uh some of the uh just say no snacks no snack snacks was I was on what we should do is we should all go to the way these people we should go there good it's Jo andette there's more than three of us than we would have small group so but it was a good meeting but it was just about uh the different holiday events that are coming up and looking for volunteers more up than North so nothing to do with uh planning board I did ask them about the interest of uh a while ago we talked about do we want to do anything with the Mills so the Mills the two Mill buildings one of them is in the IIA and one's not uh talked about you know they would like to further discuss that but they didn't they weren't prepared to have discuss that this was our first meeting since that came up I see we haven't met since the summer so okay there'll be further discussions on that what um what activities you guys planning for uh they have the um the Christmas uh lighting of the uh Town Square coming up first week in December with the talking Christmas tree and all that stuff yeah yeah so it was all about put the lights up and all that nice at conservation last night they had the palot hearing um and uh 10 hrth is also still before that uh commission uh it was continued because they still don't have natural heritage letter um and the quote from David is that they have promised to have it by the next meeting yeah and I think you said that a couple meetings ago too so that is still that what's say who's who's producing that natural heritage oh okay so uh the commission can't take action yeah without some document documentation from natural heritage interesting okay then the zoning board of appeals uh met last uh last week on November 7th the meeting lasted about 2 hours I would say 3/4 of the time was spent discussing um the proponents of uh 40b on Maro AV made propos some changes to attempt to respond to some of butter concerns and then the last 30 minutes was discussing um a parking area for a um automotive repair business at 374 North Road and that was basically the meeting what's going on with the one on riverneck that was not select board they refiled as a regular 40b after the board uh the inclined voting in favor of a friendly 40b so they resubmitted this is the one Beyond 243 R 243 okay I think uh I think on Monday night's select board agenda I believe they're um it's on there and they're uh receiving comments asking for comments and they asked uh conservation for another letter and so they're pretty much giving them the same letter they give them last time for the last I want to see that letter okay this is the one that's in the ditch yeah in the no it's a ditch like where the where the where the building is condemned in the front it's a steep slope across from Street like yeah you're okay minutes uh I've read them anybody else do you want to make a want to make a motion move before you do I did catch one thing on the 25th um under discussions new business flood plane bylaw update it's pretty easy fix um awaiting State guidelines before further discussing flood plane bylaw updates not Adu in that section that okay when I would move that we approve the uh 925 uh minutes as corrected second motion by Mike risbeck second by Chris all in favor I I zoned out for a second did we vote on both or just one no just one do one at a time on the second one October 23rd Joel did you vote on the public hearings you know I was confused by that too cuz I'm seeing some votes are 70 and some votes are 60 so I thought you had voted let's hold off on that one we can double check is it important some of them are well if it was 70 or 60 I mean the results pretty clear the same is true actually of 10 Hill D yeah we vote wait minut I'm that was the last meting 10 no well that was just the straw pole that was 1023 was last meeting oh that was 10 hild I don't think we did last meeting H it was the last one that we just voted on I last meeting was 15 Research Place one of the one of it was those was only six but it was only a straw po so it doesn't matter yeah I forgot to bring it up and it doesn't matter but I don't know if that matters at all if it's not to me we want to just wait check it out sorry Evan can you double check on that one I can double check on those this is the 321 want to table that one yeah yeah yeah I'll take a look okay I make a motion to adjourn second all in favor I motion by Anita second by Mike rbe and unanimous for