##VIDEO ID:X0k0qPiMB5w## tonight we'll be following the posted agenda we have tonight we have public works and then we'll hear from Municipal facilities and under that category we have two Library projects and and some others to discuss and then we'll have and then we'll be discussing school facilities um so first on the list is public works I see director Christine Clancy here this evening and her projects are numbered 9 through 15 on your project detail sheets good evening good evening I'm just gonna flip to number nine sorry so thank you um so this this first request is for the schools or sorry for um this is for dpw's sidewalks number nine um and so we have 46 and a half with our recent sidewalk master plan we have 46 and A2 um miles a sidewalk in town of that about 27 or we call is the the primary sidewalks getting us to the Center to schools um and so that's where we plow you know following a storm um with that master plan that we've done we've looked at ways to improve uh whether we're making repairs to the existing infrastructure and also providing connections between existing um exist the existing Network particularly at the schools um so annually we do make this request this supplements all the other uh funding that we sometimes we do receive funding through grants right now we do have a Federal grant for the parkerville sidewalk that we're a new sidewalk adjacent to the biome school um also we have chapter 90 funding so that's supplemented with you know that goes to both our sidewalk and Paving program um and also just recently uh free cash was awarded um annually the request um has been about 35375 is now the t is the request that we're making um and like I so we also in addition to the miles of sidewalk that we're repairing or that we're looking to repair have 920 curb ramps those are the P pedestrian ramps at crosswalks in town of those um 700 about 700 the town owns the rest of the state um and then of that I think 500 of the 700 need some type of update whether it be a repair um or it needs to be ada8 upgrade so as we go through the paving program we do look to see where we can touch those curb ramps um throughout town and then also so some of those funds go to that annually in addition to the sidewalks um as far as the what I always get asked what would this money go towards and we do publish that list this coming I would say this winter we're close to looking at that list um probably January it'll be posted next year is a little different than some other years because we have two really big sidewalk projects one is the parkerville sidewalk it's a new sidewalk along parkerville um that is a federally funded project that we have to go through a permitting we we've we're at a probably I'd say permanent level so 60% design we're ready to go to permitting um that's federally funded but it does have to be some supplemental funding that is from the Bim school all the way to the Town Line um that right now we have I think it's $350,000 funded but we do need to supplement that so some of the funds um of the pool of money that we have would go towards that project we also have the Turnpike Road sidewalk project and this has been talked about for some time another section of new sidewalk from Golden Cove up to waren AV um we do have a complete streets uh project grant money $500,000 that has to be spent by next year um it requires a bridge essentially because it has a covert as part of the sidewalk so that sidewalk is about a million dollars so again we're looking to so those are really two projects that we would focus some of this some of these funds we also look at the paving list to see what type of what sidewalks within the paving list we would we would upgrade existing sidewalks um right now we're looking at Lane that's a roadway that was likely a candidate and that would potentially be a sidewalk um or a sidewalk repaired in addition to the curb ramps that I mentioned um do you want me to go is there any questions we can talk how sure we can would you like to take questions under each project the committee members have any questions on the sidewalk project is this enough for what you just said so I mean we so as presented at the recent file to meeting we have a long list so we have we have a $75 million backlog so it was really never enough um and we're going to pick from that list to see what we so we I think as priorities is that we do have eight years to do parkerville from a funding perspective we do want to try to do it next year but we do have to get through permitting so I guess that's a potential that could slide a little bit if we get into permitting but we our our goal is to do that next year so we're that's the target Turnpike has to be spent by next year so for that $500,000 that is a priority of ours um and we're looking at the paving list so we we have a $4 a. half million do Paving list it also depends on what prices come in right now you know the market we run we run our estimates based off of the current market that could go up down so we think it's enough but if it's not we guess the good thing with the paving program you can always do more and so we can always make adjustments um so I do think with plus we just had the free cash so um we could always use more but we know there's a lot of needs in town so I think this is a a fair request all right so with the again pairing annually with the sidewalk in Paving program Paving program is uh just is is critical to the town I think as part questions that we receive at DPW it's probably in town manager's office probably the most number of questions we receive are about the conditions of our roadways probably second to that are the sidewalks um we have 190 about 190 mies of town accepted roads in town and annually we you know we try to um do as much Paving as possible historic so in the past couple years we've done additional miles from I think going back a few years it was probably six seven miles a year now we're up up close to 10 miles a year and I think it is noticeable when you look around town um you see you know there's roadways a lot of the roadways are in I think in fair condition um improved condition also some of the dunable road was done North Road recently so a lot of our arterial roads parkur this year um and we do do a pavement we have a we maintain a pavement management database and so we do have a whole algorithm rating system and that rating does go up each year and that's our our goal is to try to keep that rating up um so like I said we have a very long list of Paving easily a $4 million list um pulling from the chapter 90 the you know grant opportunities uh the free cash and then we're looking at it request this year 4 $425,000 again that could always be more but we know there's so many needs in town so we do think this is a good Target so that we can try to Target close to that um 10 10 miles of Paving a year compiled with all the other funding we receive um and I one other thing to mention is this includes crack ceiling micro seiling mail and overlay and roadway re Reclamation any questions with 10 miles per year does that get you on a cycle so that by the time you you you pave all of the roads you're back to the to the one that you did 20 years ago or something like that is that the idea generally yeah we're I guess we're right now running that number to see how long it's going to take I think not quite because it's going to is going to be hard to do 10 miles every year because also I think some of those years they had supplemental funded we had just had free cash last year it was money provided by the state to pay grotten so it's going to be hard to do 10 miles every year plus we're getting into more spending more on roadway Reclamation Less on the milling and that is cost more per a mile or foot so um I think it's putting us in a better position but uh we have I guess we're still running that number because if a p if a road lasts 20 30 years um we'll we'll have we have to verify that still so we're still updating it I would say but yes it puts us in a much better position well am I to assume that you need free cash in order to do the 10 miles that's how it has yeah so if we have free cash annually then the 10 Mile number is is is 10 Mile a year that works out great but I just don't think we'll be able to sustain that the question becomes if you don't get free cash what do you end up with less miles yeah I got that I managed to get that one what we are trying to do though is I would say the past couple years we have with our algorithm we have looked to see well how do we catch a road before it becomes a more expensive repair or like how do we stretch that dollar how do we stretch it so micro sealing I think we just started that two years ago it's essentially when you driveway seal you're put a driveway seal it has a little more of a um thickness to it and that's supposed to extend the pav Life by 5 years so we just placed that so far it's held up for two Winters on some streets and one winter for the other so we're trying to extend that dollar so if we can look at that then that I guess that's part of the answer too well the reason I asked it was simply I want to make sure you get what you need and and the other the other thing that was chapter 90 so from the state's perspective is like we're going on 10 you know over 10 years where they've given us the same amount of funding too so um we always like I said there's just so many needs so it's hard to balance all the needs so to pave a couple more miles and not do a bridge or a Culver it's hard I guess it depends on a year-to-year basis what the need is my last question I'll leave you alone is I just see 425 425 425 I guess cost is never going to go up every year no so 450 we we're targeting FY 23 so we'll look at this right now we're showing this I mean like I said we always we always can use more the fact that we've been able to do 10 miles a year I think put us put us in good position so I think that's why we're just we just know we have so many needs with all the other Capital request so I was reluctant to bump it up but then when you start to look at FY 2030 you start to bump it up thanks thanks um moving on to the next DPW requests we're moving into some equipment um so we look we do have a Fleet Management soft for database that we're using and we look to see annually what equipment we need to replace I also I meet annually with the division heads and particularly our mechanics and be like what is the piece of equipment that you're spending the most time on maintaining because we some of these repairs are very costly this was a request for last year but we had a lot of requests last year this is a mini excavator um it's a 2013 caterpillar 305.5 mini excavator and we track it's a track machine so it has about 3800 hours um essentially you know given the age of it it is starting to get into more needed repairs um this would be used for this is mostly for I guess outside of plowing season it's more for the when we're doing trenching we do demolition these mini I call these the highway mini projects or not so manyi they're they're they assist they did work at coolest farm they've done demo of McCarthy courts the tenant so they're those these machines are on all those projects um so we do see this as a as a need any questions what would you do with the the old machine once it's replaced so this one we probably would so a lot of these machines we do we do check to see if we want to retain it just for to get us through like another year or two if we need it as a backup um for any reason or something but a lot of these machines we typically put on manid sometimes too if storm water doesn't have something we'll we or vice versa we'll kind of pass equipment between departments um but this one we proba we might put on minesa bid just to try and that money goes then to the general fund and for those that may not be familiar that's an online auction platform that allow so a town is able to get a higher recovery value than in the versus the old days holding a live auction you may only get a few bid so is there a lead time on this this this is more of a ready in ready like so when I talk about some of these vehicles we're not going to be getting for another 18 months but this is I don't know if it's a month or 3 months but I believe it's more available item all right so the next request is a DPW Highway request and this is a heavy duty truck 10-wheeler with sander body the existing vehicle is a 2011 he heavy duty truck it has a sander body and dump body so we do use the sander in the winter and the dump body the rest of the year um it is also I mean it's I guess the reason why it's so critical is really for the snow and ice operations um again we use it all year but a lot of these requests that the way we prioritize them is with the need for snow nights because that really is our Emergency Operations um this existing truck is is has 35,000 mil on it um it's 2011 and it's getting to the point where it has more repairs but also these vehicles start to rust out and so when they start to rust out you really can't do those permanent those those repairs so when we we when we start to see the body rusting out and you cannot be repaired we put that in line to being need to be replaced so again this would um likely go to a municibid someone might be able to use it um this vehicle actually when we sat down and looked at this need first I had listed a six-wheeler just because thinking well maybe we can get a smaller V vehicle and and um there was only like a $115,000 difference for a new six-wheeler and a 10-wheeler so I said well let's go the 10-wheeler potentially more use and this vehicle is going to probably take 18 months maybe 2 years years to receive so if they approv we would make the purchase in July and hopefully we probably won't see see even next winter probably the following winter so that's why we're starting to see rust now and deterioration now but we need it in two years or hopeful you know less would even be better any questions all right so this next machine I believe when we look when we talk about priorities this is one of the highest equipment priorities that I had this is a 2003 sidewalk snow clearing machine but has just under 10,000 hours of service um this these so these are critical because these are used to clear the sidewalks when we clear the sidewalks we want to clear them to um these blades are just enough to get on the it's not like we're just using a snow blower and doing a couple feet we want to clear the full sidewalk width so these are 5 foot blades and they're made to fit right on the sidewalk um they write the ones that we have are only used for for the snow clearing they're not these machines that we have can't be used for any other purposes um in the year so but they are so super critical because we need to clear the sidewalks um our focus is the streets in the parking lots but then immediately after that are concurrent we're trying to jump onto the sidewalks especially adjacent to the schools to get the schools back in session um we have 27 miles a sidewalk but we're now building out the network we're trying to add to it these machines too though I I think Highway mechanic has many words on how to describe this machine but it's it's it's it's very I mean one repair $224,000 um so substantial repairs um and it when it also when it so like thing is when you're when you have feet of snow and you're moving that snow you don't know what you're going to be hitting so they hit all sorts of things in the sidewalk and and when they do that that really that's what takes the machine down the machine get gets down someone has to come out rescue it bring it back to the shop that machine is down for then two or three it's not just like get it back out usually it's usually down for two weeks and so when unfortunately when these are down they're down in the winter so when we sat down to look again at updating our 5year plan we said we need to upgrade our new machine some these machines they they're hopefully there's new technology this is a 20-year-old machine um so we've we've looked into ma the machines and we have some pricing um also the new machines potentially have some different attachment opportunities so we could potentially do some you have some use of brush cutting we're looking into the um stump grinding various uses but there's more versatility in the new equipment as well um so this was one of our higher requests just because when it is down it's it's somewhat detrimental any questions what would you do with the old ones so we did talk about this one we probably would um I mean it still works we probably just keep it because we have other machines if they go down we keep it still works so we keep it as a backup um but as soon as we start we I have a request for next year honestly when we talked about it we said can we get can we put in a request for a couple more we just know we have so many requests um so we're probably we would keep this one for another year or so and then hopeful we would ask for another one next year and then as we have a couple we would then start to mici bid them put them on mici bid that's a good question because I also was going to ask Christine what about with all the improvements with the additional sidewalks you put in through town I didn't know if that would cause a need to get more equipment like this so if I think it's something we have to look at so as we add sidewalks the question is how do we make right now if we have a significant storm it can take us four days to get through all the sidewalks and so it's not as much of how many equipment pieces of equipment it's also people too and and and it's and you have to have enough if you've been on the road for so many hours you have to give them a break so um so it it's it is a resource question and and I know there also some towns have bylaws maintaining your sidewalk I mean that would have to be a whole bylaw but yeah potent potentially if we add sidewalk somewhere resources have to be added or it's going to take us longer to clear the sidewalks and we're 27 miles we're already there it takes us we say four days sometimes we can get it done in a couple days it depends what type of snow it is if we hit anything with machine but um we target a couple days but we say it takes four days typic on a typic larger storm how many machines are there we have four but we almost always have one down that was my next question I think last year at one point we had two down um so before we go on to the next project I just wanted to explain that the next project is number 14 so I just want to explain that um director CL and I spoke um after the last meeting and Public Works actually owns two Chevy Colorado so there's a 2010 and a 2012 so that's why I sent you that new project detail sheet so please substitute the one that I sent you um and uh in your packet and it should be a 2010 Chevy Colorado for facilities and not engineering so correct yeah well that is a need I think this is a larger need so this is the 2010 Chevy Colorado truck is facilities vehicle um this typically in this summer is used more we have seasonal help so this isn't important truck to help with maintenance of our of our Parks um or other you know facil in the facilities in the summer um the mileage is 88,000 Miles it this was brought to my attention by our me lead mechanic just because he said again it's rusting and we're getting to a point where it might fail inspection and once it fails inspection then it really has no use to us especially if we know the repair is so costly um and so yeah it says repairs are cost prohibitive so um with that we also though our uh we see a a need that as we replace our vehicles it's important to get vehicles to have vehicles that we can put plows on and the so the proposal would would be to get something to put a a plow on another 3/4 um truck or sorry one ton truck potentially and that's what it's priced out as is to to have something to put a plow on it um potentially getting that for next winter because you know this going into funding request for FY 26 we are we are still looking for plow drivers um and we're down pieces of equipment so we're just as much Vehicles inhouse as we can we're going to try to replace with vehicles so we have um Plows in in you know in house or expansion of that um so this yes this is a also a critical request for the facilities department and for the needs of snow and ice operations um similar to the next request this is the facilities this is act so Steve Callahan uses this a lot this is the 2008 Ford Ranger propos has about 100,000 miles on it um this is similar to the previous request where the body is deteriorating at a rate where it it potentially won't pass an inspection and uh and when we replace this we would also propose to replace it with a plow on it um any questions and then when we go to Municipal facilities would you like to start with the library projects yeah we can do that that's fine well I'm just going backwards I just wanted to mention for those that may be viewing the meeting at home in recent years it's been our practice to display the project detail information on the screen unfortunately there's a power Interruption before just before tonight's meeting so we are unable to display those but if anyone's watching or any residents interested just email me at J oou sa chumford ma.gov and I will be glad to email you a PDF packet of all that information all right so we're going to go back to project three which is the Adams library parking lot and also with us is Library director Leslie Kimble she has some photos and information to distribute old thank you thank [Music] you sure I'll start and Leslie Leslie I think also has a great understanding of these needs so she'll um fill in as well but the first request is the Adams library parking lot Rehabilitation project I know this was discussed last year as well we did move forward with the wall work and which was came out great we essentially abandoned That Sidewalk adjacent to the library because it really had nowhere to go leading to um and there was a safety concern there because people were driving off of the retaining wall so we've we've adjusted that slope added a fence um put curbing in the back of that parking lot um but the rest of the parking lot does need to be repaired and also if you look at in some of the pictures I think are shown the uh access points to the main library have concrete curbing with some rebar in it and that curbing is failing um and we've received I know I've received few complaints you've received complaints pretty frequently we go out and we try to do patches but really they need to be replaced um so we do address any type of tripping hazards but the the's Band-Aids and long-term solutions to replace the proposal is to replace all the concrete curbing with granite Curbing and that should really last um many many years um also replacing the sidewalk um and then the the the parking lot itself is is deteriorated we do the DPW is right now looking at all Town parking lots similar to the roadway pavement management system we're creating a rating system for all the parking lots and say okay how do we rank all of our parking lots in town um and I would say this Reon this and also I know the police was before you um those are the uh two really the needs right now um we do have a little bit of money left over in the previous project the wall project I did you know with some of that would be for plantings but also some of that I think could still go to some of the curbing so the request is the 390 and that would make this project whole um pot we we do all the design in housee um and we could potentially do that project next summer um with that you know looking at Ada accessibility making sure that's maintained regrading the area also separately we I know we have six charging stations proposed to go in at the library so we would look to have that work done first and because there probably some trenching there and then we would come in and do that work this work after and this project the parking lot restoration is a Mill and overlay so we take out the top 2 Ines um adjust the structures and like I said all new curving new sidewalk um I don't know if there's anything else you want to add to that um just to for a little bit of context uh number one this would have been uh probably an even bigger emergency if we didn't have DPW in Highway helping us uh patch this stuff up over the years I mean for us this project um you know originally started getting talked about in uh as far back as 2016 but then much more seriously around 2021 um when Gary petti was here and had really said that he thought this project should be happening in uh FY 24 because of the safety issues and the deterioration of it um we know problems only get worse over time uh so things haven't gotten better since then as I've I think I've talked about before we have 165,000 um Library visitors a year and even if I'm really conservative and say that you know every car has four people in it uh you know we're talking about 35 40,000 cars passing through and parking in this lot um you know we're open 3,000 hours a year so we have people parking there both in daylight and in the dark um so when you have you know potentially some lighting challenges as well it's just really really hard to even see where the dangerous spots are uh so as Christine said um the deterioration and repair we're talking about lots of costs at this point with those um annual or sometimes more than annual patching and repairs um the crumbling curves as you can see in the picture at this point you know there's not much patching that can be done because there's nothing for the patching to hold on to um before it crumbles uh that exposed rebar um in different places has had to actually be cut off um before patching can happen because of damage to cars and tires um DPW repainted a bunch of lines uh this year which was terrific and really helped you see um how important that piece is but there's still lots of directional um arrows and things like that that need to be fixed the curb visibility um because that paint doesn't last there we have definitely um you know a major population of people who are Mobility impaired maybe visually impaired uh and these things are all essential for people to be able to safely navigate the parking lot never mind navigating the cars that are going in the wrong direction uh which really doesn't help um we have had um just in the last I went back about uh maybe five or six years and we have many many incident reports of people either tripping or falling um cars fender benders uh all kinds of things that are happening that you can just see are because of the design of the parking lot or because of where people are um walking and the deterioration of things um so it definitely seems to us that we are you know past the point from a cost Effectiveness standpoint of getting this done so that we aren't continuing to put money into something um that there's just no way to keep up with it at this point any questions for either uh a couple of questions one is I didn't know if you knew the Outlook if it's going to change the number of spaces and when you look to do the new parking lot and then the other part of the question is I think you said you're looking to add more charging stations as well and is there subsidies to whoever's going to put them in there sure so we received a grant I think it's $2.2 million Grant to add fast charging stations around town um in the LI Library being one of them we have one one uh I think two ports one right now um we potentially would relocate that one I guess you could keep it there too but potentially I'm looking into the feasibility of relocating that to um McKay and then he'd have six there so it's actually coming in at no cost to the town um we would just have to pay for the electricity um and then any software or any repairs post the warranty um so as far as number of parking spaces we haven't gotten into that quite yet um potentially I know that when you there was one spot when you first pulled in that I think when we restriped I think we were able to even add one spot back um so potentially but I mean knowing the site I don't know if it's you're not going to see significant I me I'm talking probably one or two and we want to look at the flow too and make sure that it's is flow so I think our goal is not to necessarily add spaces just to make sure that it's uh safe yeah in 2019 there was a um conceptual drawing put together of the parking lot and the um Wetlands kind of together so agreed the I think the main Hope was to maximize parking in whatever way possible but to really improve traffic flow safety so that it makes makes sense if youve I didn't bring you pictures of the signs but there's signs everywhere you can tell because people they don't know which way to go so you end up with five stop signs and six oneway signs um so the hope would be it's true the hope would be that with a design you know it would become much more instinctive for people to move through there including pedestrians um if you're if you're at that far part of the lot and you're looking at the main door it's not only not clear where you should be walking it's very unclear to cars that somebody could be Crossing there I yeah the other thing was I didn't know if you had other opportunities to totally kind of shift their design between the front and the side to have you know I don't know even if it's just a picnic table area for reading outside or if there's any opportunity to make it more inviting but definitely safe is good yeah safe safe is very good that is our number one priority we do have the greenway The scoria Greenway um which so much work and a wonderful donation went into in any ways we're talking with the retaining slope um that DPW did which came out so beautiful and the mums this fall were great um you know looking at overall the planting plan for that but also looking at the entire property how do we tie together the green space that is there how do we tie together um all of our outdoor spaces we use the outdoors so much more for programming now than we did before the pandemic so that's definitely needs to be a part of this this plan to make that outdoor programming really safe as well perfect thank you I have a more strategic question and um I don't want to get stoned tonight when I ask it um but how many towns have two libraries at a great question and I don't know the answer um you know we do have uh towns in Massachusetts that have um you know Branch Branch libraries and um I think we're really myself I think we're really fortunate to to have a branch library um in North chelsford It's a Wonderful Community neighborhood yeah I have no issue with the parking lot I really don't I don't want you to think that's where I'm coming from but I'm on the finance committee and I just you know two two buildings means two roofs means two parking lots means two air conditioners means additional cost to the town and we already got other problems regarding funding and Etc and you just look for you know as we look down the road when things get tough what are we going to do that's why you're there you're doing your job you're looking at everything and prioritizing I mean that's exactly I mean that's exactly what I think any of us would expect okay well thank you you're welcome on the the parking lot last week Chief Spence mentioned yeah I wanted to mention that too I did speak with Christine she has an answer on that for yes and so I mean it's hard to know the exact savings but with there's an economy in Scales when you start to get over 1,000 tons and the two projects put you over, ,000 tons so there's likely a cost Savings in the purchase of asphalt um it could be more than you know what I would say but I think it's a safe estimate is if you take $50,000 off the request in totality so you say $25,000 each request um could be less is this I guess we're reluctant to adjust it more so because we just the the market depends on the market if gas price because that it's it's related diff fuel too um but I think $50,000 off of the O So if you put both projects out together we still design them as we had planned both of them but um have one package go out one bidder and then that way they potentially would because when they go to the plant they um there's a quantity that they try to hit and they could potentially pay both at the same time so just to clarify to make sure I understand for the purposes of our evaluation if we were to include both of those projects we could then subtract 50,000 from that as we calculate our totality right so and what I'll do when I send out the worksheet for all the committee members to make their decisions for the next meeting on December 5th I will send I'll put a reminder in there and I'll reduce each project by 25,000 in cost assuming and it will be assuming that a majority vote for both projects just to make it clear yeah that's great all right uh any other questions on the parking lot no all right so the next Library request is the HVAC replacement and we were talking about this last year um we do have some capital and also I know some arpa funds to um move forward with that uh design stud right now we're doing the study then the design um the existing hbac system has you know it's aged it's over 20 years old um we have had many problems in the past we had to do many resets have um we have our own for our own HVAC technician I think he's done some ways to reset it but we've also had to bring in outside vendors to um to trouble shoot and and it unfortunately is during times of you know when it's getting it's when the AC is needed or when I don't think it's been more focused around AC but still is it's um it is and also I think the the design of the system one thing we want to look as part of that design is what is the best system just because a lot of the units are up in the ceiling are hard to access so the study is going to look is looking at all uh what potential options exist um we are still going through that study so we don't it's hard for me to say right now what that what that total dollar value is but we know that it's substantial so we asked for $450,000 last year we're also doing so we have about $30,000 in arpa that we're working on right now for that study to kind of scope out the project um and then we knowing that we you know have a need looking to fund the next pH I I guess if it's a phase or a balance I can't say it's the remaining balance cuz we it's such a large undertaking but it would help advance that project um as lizie said there's so many people that use the library so it is it is a need um and we're a lot of our buildings are this I mean this is one of our newer buildings but a lot of you're starting to see a lot of the same you know roofs boilers HVAC systems um need to be replaced right around now um couple other notes yeah so three air handl units were failing at least once a day requiring manual res resets this is going back to 2023 and then last year the compressor failed requiring manual resets um we were able to service that but still it's we've serviced it but you know at this point we know the system is old and it needs to be replaced any questions anything to add we have 160,000 people who come to the every year um I mean I think Christine has summed it up really well you know our concern is that you know if if we're not positioned to be able to move ahead with a project we're going to end up in a complete failure the library is given how many hours we're open every week we are a cooling and warming Center um for the community that is definitely something that we see people using there is also the value of our collections in the building and hbac also manages humidity and humidity and books do not get along and so um you know we're talking about I don't even know hundreds of thousands of dollars of um materials that have been purchased um with Town operating money and we certainly don't want to see those materials become unusable for that for that reason we certainly have seen the the uh the system the manufacturer date on the units themselves is 1998 uh and when the uh a technician from carrier who's the manufacturer came out in 23 um because of all the problems we were having and uh Diagnostics wasn't really people just couldn't see they're like no it's it's old but we don't understand why it's not working so uh carrier sent out a um technician representative who went through the entire system and basically said the same thing the reason why you're having so many problems is because it's the entire system is so old we can't find one component that needs to be fixed it's across the board and that you know given um that components um and parts are getting harder and harder to find for a system that's this old that um as you replace larger parts of it you're going to find yourself in a position where the refrigerant and the oil um because they aren't EPA compliant at this point won't actually fit with new components uh and you know then if you're talking about oh now we have to replace an entire third of it and we've got a third running on the old fluids and a twoth thirds running on the new uh that just from a cost perspective and management perspective of the building that um it just doesn't make make sense not to make it happen and I think you we just want to be positioned that when you know Christine and her crew gets everything in place and we know it's a good energy efficient system that we'll be able to move ahead with that especially since we know there are leave times with this as well yes a lot of the units um we know right now going through some of the arpa projects lead times on these units um several weeks or in some cases a half a year so obviously lead times change but knowing that you know it's it's a project that's not going be done immediately it's going to take time to phase or to procure the equipment and Christine you touched on this early in your presentation but I just want to make sure that the committee understood that because this as you were explaining to me when we were talking about this project the because it hasn't been speced out we haven't been able to you know it's not the the design has not been specked out to a level of detail yet you may need additional funding to complete this project so we just that stage yes yeah I mean yes so we've you know it's hard to estimate can't just look up a what's the cost of HVAC system it dep so it's so particular to the building and this system is unique in the lay so it is something it's that is we're now going through the study in that costing looking at options and then I think so I think by the spring we'll have a good understanding of what that timeline is and so but you know with $450,000 we already have and then additional $450,000 that should put us in a good position to potentially phase it or I guess at that point we'll know what percent we can we can um begin and then looking at that balance I imagine there would be I just I can't put a number on it it's really difficult too and it's important to have that study which we're right now um going through so in 2015 the Board of Trustees actually um and Kathleen canavan brought in a consulting firm design firm and that proposal that came through at that time 2015 was um 750 th000 to a million so it's probably going to be yes so that being 10 years old you can imagine that price is likely over a million dollars I just don't know if it's 1.2 is it 1.5 is it two and so it's hard with that um I think it's fair to ask for another balance and and see what we can piece move forward more immediately in Phase why would we borrow the money before we know what the cost total cost of the Project's going to be well I guess that is an option too is not borrow it but I guess we so we're moving forward with the study and Analysis and so by the spring we would hopefully know what project the project and so before I guess before the following spring potentially installing some of the project we might be phasing the project so I guess asking for we know it's at least this we're not asking for too much so potentially phasing and because I guess this is a is different that typically it's hard to ask for money without knowing exact phase but this is such a critical project like because of being a heating and cooling and I think the hope is to um you know from a capital planning standpoint to be able to Spread spread out the um the the kind of the savings for it it be very difficult to come and look for $2 million in one year if we are able to do some phasing well that's what it's going to Coss the town whether spread it or don't spread it it's going to cost us plus we're going to pay interest if we borrow money before we need it now but what this what what trying to do is like if for example if what with the phasing they can get some the project started but also too it recognizing the capital funds are limited if we devoted a million or I'm just taking numbers as an example a million a million it's it's a huge chunk of the the money that we have available to a lot so if we devote you know a million and a half or what we don't again we don't have the exact number um it's going to take a significant amount of the capital plan and it would leave less money available for other Department's needs yeah looking at the next year we do have or next sorry five years we have a lot of requests coming that I can argue that the opposite way okay which simply says that that you um uh you create uh a you if you've borrowed half then you're going to have to spend the other half in the coming year which may impede you doing something else in that year okay because I mean you shouldn't why borrow before you know what your C what you what and win but but it's separate it's SE the build it's separate sections of the building David that's what you need to understand it's not like it's a house where you've got an HVAC system that's cooling your entire house you've got the original building that that Wing has an area and then you've got the addition part and so the bottom line is what they're saying is they're phasing sections of the building over time as opposed to doing it so it's not like you're you're it's one project and you're funing half of it what we're doing is we're phasing sections of the building so that it's all done so that we can make progress because otherwise the request is what you suggest you come in for a a an aggregate amount for the entire building which would which would be burdensome in terms of the capital request for any given year so what what's going to happen is they're going to do this pH us as we move through the building you know and and the building of that structure and configuration that makes sense very similar what we did with the McCarthy roof and we're going to have to do with some of these roofs you be able to fund the entire McCarthy roof a school of that big uh at one time just like we did with the high school parking lot we did the high school parking lot in sections we did the rear of the building and then we came back at a later time and did the front of the building that just it just the approach the town has taken for projects of this enormity uh in order to basically provide progress but also simultaneously allow other areas to be addressed so I'm not saying it's right or wrong it's just how we've gone about it recognizing the the scope of of some of these massive projects over time and Paul I'm not saying it's right or wrong either all I'm saying is that if you if you spend half now it's a given you're going to spend the other half Okay so it's already out there in the in the out years now and that then bucks up against what what other projects and that year might be important and might make the make it more difficult that's all that's all I'm saying we've done that with roadway sidewalks all these things that's the only way we're able to make progress through these these that we're facing and you're right I agree it's not right or wrong it's just it's the only way to areas of concern I got it I actually appreciate the debate in the sense of now I get a better understanding of your approach to the project because when we reviewed this last year it came you know the concern was what the um addition caused and where the events and where the work was crawling into the spaces to fix it so I would assume and I'm sure you're addressing it with the uh the amount of um servicing that is you're probably going to do that half first but I just if you could speak to how you're prioritizing each half just so so the study will I guess speak to so I mean there's with the three ear units in the in the compressor so I assume that we would replace the compressor we know and then would we target one of the three but also we have to look at the whole design to see where how do we uh provide the HV how do we heat and provide um ventilation and cooling to specific spaces so those it might change depending on the design um but I see it potentially being in two or three phases because of how it's currently set up um I also I think because this is such you know used by 165,000 people a year we aren't going to be able to shut down the library so we're going to have I feel like it's a phase approach anyway um so yeah it's I guess we're still in the study phase so but it's my guess is it's two to three phases given that we have the three early units and we have the compressor out the compressor probably one of the first pieces and I guess just like how we're saving money if we can you know do both parking lots at the same time to save that money I would suggest too I don't know if we can negotiate to make sure that the person that gets the money we can delay that project but guarantee them the contract for the following year to save money to just something to look at and make sure we're get in best cost too yeah we' have I guess we'd have to have the funds and that's why I guess we're asking for the additional 450 because we can only procure against what we have so if we only have $450 and not $900,000 and let's say I'm just making this up let's say it's a15 million do project we're going to have to phase it for the 900 I guess we can't procure more so so that's why we're asking for the 450 or Plus in addition to the 450 I I imagine too like we talked about for some of the specialty Vehicles this equipment is going to need to be ordered in advance and is going to have lead times I don't remember remember what it was for M yes well that weeks that was still I think an on a front coming from the co but we did with the senior center we had um we you know we just got everything in but we were originally targeting in this as a summer project it ended up being a fall project so we're still seeing those seasonal delays um it depends exactly on the product um but I would say yeah we can't do the project procure it and say this this unit is going to be available in two weeks it does take time right so it looks like that's all questions for Christine on that one that so that puts us back at um project 16 which is the Ada accessibility for Parks playgrounds and Open Spaces sure and I I did have a picture and for some reason it just didn't but the picture was I think you all have seen the open space in recreational survey that went out this spring and summer so that's a plan that we're developing right now um a draft is being developed um and with that survey you know we're required to have a updated open space plan um every updated plan every 7 years so it going through that process with that plan has you know implementation and a lot of um how do we execute the um update one so action items coming out of that plan is provide some Ada accessibility enhancements or you know existing it's either provide new Ada accessible amenities or potentially upgrade what we currently have that needs to be fixed in our Open Spaces our par which includes our parks and playgrounds um we are still drafting that plan so I don't have specific projects in mind but we know there's a lot there's I mean we have I think if we look at all of our playgrounds um we do we we do strive to make Ada accessibility um one of our top priorities we but there's always more we can do or repairs there's also some spaces that from this plan that we're putting together we see that we can add some Ed accessible Trails or certain you know I know soccer fields how getting walking down to the soccer fields with the ad accessible path that's come up so with that long list we'll have a a long listed plans some some items will be easy to do some things will become projects um so looking at that list we want to start implementation um and just asking for $150,000 a year which uh should be able to hopefully Target whether it be a big project or maybe it's several small projects my guess is that there's going to be such a big request that we're going to try to Target some of the smaller just initially uh I do propose this as a you know annually but we'll look at this we'll have this we're right now putting this list together we'll be able to cost it out and then update this 5year plan any questions on that project all right the next one is the number 17 the town offices bathroom Improvement I call it phase one so we do have arpa funds that we're going through right now actually the reping the RFP we're awarding the RF RFP next uh the next couple weeks from the next month um to do a complete study and design of all the bathrooms in this building these these these bathrooms are from the 80s um do not have lowf flow fix fixtures they have been a lot of repairs we actually did do uh as part of our sewer project we did a smoke testing in parts of of the town we it included town offices and I will say when we did this building there was one spot where we got some smoke and that was in the bathrooms which shows you that the piping infrastructure um needs to be updated uh so we with that we're doing the design right now uh with that design will come a propo overall cost estimate and so you know with there being six bathrooms $180,000 might be a little low but um I do think we can try to tackle two to four bathrooms with that um that design would be completed this spring and then we wouldd like advance to this construction phase next summer or fall um and I think it also the fact that we're upgrading to and and with that we would look at ad accessibility so just making sure that we're providing compliant bathrooms um high efficiency fixtures and all the other plumbing updates the proposal or the limits of the work are contained to the building itself so or the the room itself we're not proposing to do plumbing throughout the building it is an older building but just within the the bathrooms themselves and this has come up a lot I think and it's always you know there's been other priorities but with the with the design being Advanced is becoming a larger priority something that seems more achievable I will say that as someone that um you know works in the building every day uh we do receive a lot of if you talk to any department head or employee we often get comments from residents sometimes about some several that you know some of the fixtures work but the bathrooms are antiqu equated where it's an older building yes yeah exactly I think that so that wraps up we have any any questions for director clecy on the restrooms okay and um so that wraps up Municipal facilities and then we're transition to school facilities so we have uh superintendent of schools Dr Jay Lang and also I know uh director Clancy they may be co-presenting some copresent co-presenting I guess I can are we're on number 19 or uh number 18 I think so I did want to mention so project 18 deals with school security and the reason it's numbered 18 A through f is the school security project um involves multiple locations that's the reason for that good evening Dr Lang Hi how are you guys thank you for having us um and yeah Christine and I will kind a tag team um tonight got move your mic back if keep H your oh is that what it is yes you all you B thank good now so um you mean I wasn't loud enough you allowed it with that but it's all good no no apologies necessary the uh so the first project before you this evening is um school safety related and as you know on the the desk tonight I had given John and I know he passed out to you some updated um prioritization list from the school committee um just just to kind recap real quickly so the school committee keeps a rolling um 5 and 10 year now I'm doing it uh 5 and 10 year uh Capital uh project list and we've done a very good job U working with um folks over the last number of years keeping up on our projects um we obviously on our list had two projects that we were able to um kind of move that would have been before you this evening uh the first was the um the McCarthy tennis courts that had been a project that had been uh deferred for a couple of years we were able to use um with Paul's assistance some free cash at the end of the year and to meeting was very supportive of that so that's going to be in the works and then the second one was the South roow roof we got very good news that that did get invited into the msba accelerator repair project so um we'll be getting about half of that project back but that's going to take a little bit of time to develop so those are two um $2 million about in items that came off the table um obviously the running list is very long and U the school committee haven't kind of gone through this for a couple of times um we all realized the The Limited capacity we have for funding so we said let's actually just come forward with the projects for this year that are really kind of most important to us so you'll see them kind of tiered in the green uh the School Safety and Security type um items and then there are four more building Capital items below it there's obviously a list that adds up to a lot more behind that but you know we've kind of chosen to defer those to other years or even internally if we have some extra money during the budgeting cycle sometimes we'll fund some of the smaller projects so we'll continue to do that but the the uh School Safety and Security ones um at the high school in El McCarthy this past summer you funded the um um security we call it kind of a vestibule it's a it's a secure entry weight to the school there's a little picture in the board but they actually really came out very nice it's been very uh functional for us um we were able to use the costing from this past Summer's project because of the bidding and whatnot to generate the project costs for going forward so we now have kind of a secure entry way at the high school and McCarthy uh and we'd like to replicate that at the remaining um four um elementary schools and the the other Middle School it's going to take us a little bit longer we we will incorporate chips at some point in time over ComEd the design is just far far different than these other schools and we didn't want to hold up the work on these particular schools um but we would also like to be able to construct kind of a secure entry in those buildings um you'll notice that there's two different price uh costs on these schools um it really just has to do with the layout of the building so if you walk into Center and South roow there's just a little bit less construction cost um there were already walls you're kind of walking in you only need to construct a single wall U with a door and the secure entry at the other schools you really need to construct two so you have to kind of build an L um so there's just more um cost when we were doing the projections on that but that would include the uh the build out of the spaces the tie into the security system the swiping system uh the visitor entry system management system um so those are before you to be able to uh to round out the schools um I am anticipating the question will come up because we've talked a little bit internally to Parker we typically have been deferring all the capital items on that because we know we're going to be entering a feasibility study for that um Parker is still even under the best terms you know a new school would not open until 2030 2031 um so yes there's a cost associated with this um but we just can't see not putting this in um to Parker school for the five six seven years that it's still going to be operating and having the other schools in the district have the secure entry point um so we it's certainly a cost it's certainly an expenditure um but I think it's honestly warranted just given the um the status of our buildings kind of the openness and trying to have a more secure um entry to those schools the other one here at the high school it says StayWell um renovation for emergency erress so if you're looking at the high school if you kind of come into the parking lot um there's a Wing that comes right out to the main entrance and then there's a Wing in the back right the wing in the back right um there's two floors there's the first and second floor and there's a door in the wall that actually leads out to the plateau so when you have say a fire alarm you've got kids from the top floor that come down the stairs they go right out on the plateau and the kids from downstairs actually come out and just go out the side of the building on the wing on the left for whatever reason I can only imagine because it's kind of built on a little bit of a hill U there's no door to exit so in say or fire alarm you have the kids from the top floor that are coming down and you also Al have the kids from the first floor that are coming to the one um exit and a bottlenecks so this has been noted by you know our own CH of police chord fire and even when we have a we have a separate security firm that comes in to do assessments of the building for us they also kind of flagged it as just an egress issue so what we need to do is construct a door on that wall so it almost kind of matches the other side of the building it's not quite as simple as doing that because you need the door to get out but then you also then need to have um Ada accessible Landings and you have to have some stairs built in and actually feather it into the walkway so that's why the cost is a little bit more than you would probably think about adding a door but um every time we have to do an evacuation of the school it bottlenecks so um it really is a necessary project for um emergency eag rest from the building so those were kind of the top tier projects that add up to $877,500 to talk about and answer questions sure um so the next project that we have so we're getting into roof Replacements and again the as we look at the next 5 years we have a lot of roofs replac to be replaced in town um both on school buildings and town buildings the Center School partial roof replacement it is a relatively small section of the roof when you look at the whole uh school and the picture shown it's the it's the 2A and 2B so it's the the black roof it is a pitch as asphalt uh a review of every single roof they go on the roof they also take drone video they note all defects potentially repairs that we could do for remedial and they also estimate the the remaining years left on the roof and so when we get down to one or you know in a five-year plan anything below really three you know three to 5 years but we do have roofs that essentially have zero to one years remaining so they've reached their end of their useful life um this one is 25 years old and on that report it does say that it's needs to be replaced and it did say it last year you know it was one year left and so it is deteriorating um has significant granular loss and deterioration of roof roof shingles um just over 8,000 square feet uh this does not have solar panels on it and I know we do say that we'll look to see so as part of this we will look to see if there's any potential opportunity um we do have it on the rest of the the roofing um I also just want to make a note and it is I don't know if it was corrected in the version sent out but it says other costs solar remove and reset that's that's an incorrect amount I don't know if it is on the version that you have but the version that I had and I think I saw it said $300,000 that's an incorrect statement um the overall request for this is $130,000 um and that roof track uh report does provide estimated costs so we do use that data to help project some of these um updated cost information all right so just make sure that it should be reduced from 4:30 to 1:30 because cuz you're saying the 300,000 is not yes okay yes I apologize okay no that's important I'll get that out to everyone okay yeah because I know we I right here correctly right right cuz I have the one I have right on the detail sheet I have it is 430 but so I remember talking about with you then I I went and looked at this today and we talked about on the one I gave you right okay so perfect all right uh let's see so the next roof project is the McCarthy Middle School partial roof replacement project this McCarthy school being the oldest school um this was also a request last year as well I think La I believe last year we requested the entire amount and the portion was funded $250,000 that's enough to advance the design we are right now putting together the RFP to advance that design um we know this is so again the roof track report does very provide detail of what is um it needs to be replaced it has this section of roof Al also has leaking this is above the the gyms the locker room um the kitchen area so there has there's a h a leak history here we do make repairs but um given the age of the roof it um it needs to be replaced there's nothing that really remedially we can do it is 36,000 Square ft this section of roof does have solar panels on it the solar panels are 10 years old we talked about this last year where um we we still estimate 10 years remaining on the solar panels so the proposal is to remove and reset but we will look at potentially the cost is to remove and replace so that we putting on a new new solar panels on a new roof um it's it's a it's something to consider but it's costed out right now as a remove and reset um let's see I think that it really and this has to be phased construction because of the magnitude of the project we will have additional requests next year for McCarthy as well and schools as well or in the future years you have anything I'm just going to say it's a multi-year yeah multi-e there's more coming but this is the the section that does have the most leaks John we we skipped from 19 to 21 and there's a there's a project 20 but there isn't a detail sheet oh thank thank you yeah thank you David we don't have a we we didn't have a detail 20 is the um the water heater one oh yes you can talk about that too so the water self water heater is so in the 2016 dor with a report um it does identify uh potential Replacements so in 2016 it wasn't necessarily A need at that point the um water heater was about 4 years old um water heaters are are they're um they go you don't really know when they're going to go Unfortunately they just you know they they give and um so when we when we see a water heater that gets to be 10 to 12 years old this being 12 years old we do want to replace it so the recommendations in the 2016 report were replacement of the water heater with more high efficiency unit and also um add a mixing Val um we do I think believe that cost I'm not sure what is carried in but I think we were thinking around $60,000 yeah so in the packet I gave you tonight there was a cut sheet for that I don't have the number on it um but it is in the packet so the number that was in my report was in the low 90s um we looked at that because we do think that that's a high number I think the Accel Ator we put on it from 2016 to bring it to current was just um too significant it also had a lot of extra design work and things like that in it that are just a little bit of Overkill um so we're actually just recommending that come down to 60,000 so in the sheet that you have before you um tonight I left at the 90 something thousand because that was a sheet i' had already given the school committee and we had already talked about publicly but as we looked at the numbers to try to refine that on the uh cut sheet or what do you call them the Sip sheet oh the the project sheet yeah you have it at 60 um so that would be when you're putting your report together I would knock that down to 60 as the request okay and when I and and again when I send out the final um the worksheet I'll note that on there y to avoid any possible confusion thank you because it's not listed on this or the right it it was in it should be in Dr l oh yes no I have it there I just wanted to know for the to get this out to the committee we we we had talked all three of us and we realized that we need to do further inves vation so we didn't have a detail sheet on it I mean it's something that given the age because I guess the next step would be is we just don't want it to give and then that's when we find out we have to replace it and unfortunately that's what happens a lot to water heaters so given the age it is it is needed the rest there just there's no redundancy it's a smaller school it's got one um heater that's what supplies the hot water for the kitchen and the bathrooms and things like that and anytime they get over 10 years you just start to get a little nervous yes all right so project 22th McCarthy boilers um I apologize if if there is is there a picture in this version or I will send that out to it I was going to display it on the screen tonight until we had we have the technical problem so um I think you've seen the boilers the existing boilers we've had many year going back a few years a lot of the boilers have been replaced um we have Airco boilers and then historically the the new boilers that are going in we've done re we' have AO um and also right now um drawing a blank on the new one we just put in um locknar so we have three different types that we're putting in we've done the community the Harrington the high school so I guess the good news is we're nearing the end of that boiler replacement phase um and McCarthy is next as a request so there's four existing 2 million btu boilers um they're 18 years old and they are getting to the point where they are getting to having more repairs needed so we do want to replace those um I guess the good news is we've gone through now all these boiler replacement projects and so I think we have we're at a good place to um we still would hire a designer but we've um we would probably be able to expedite that and potentially that's things knowing that the time to do this is in the summer so our Target would be next summer um as soon as we had the funding available um any questions can we go back just briefly to all the school safety issues can you get all those done in one in the same year yeah I think now that we actually have I mean we did the high school um over actually a series of breaks so that wasn't too bad um if we're actually able to get these approved what we would do is actually kind of front the design work on our own end in anticipation that this would get approved at Springtown meeting and we would actually have the bid package ready to go these aren sophisticated builds and the material is basically drywall and doors and things like that there's no major lead time for any of the items the bigger issue is more the tying in all the technology um but we have a very good firm we're working with now that does all of our um districtwide security access and things like that so I definitely do think this is a potentially a next year's Summit project um that it could get done uh if if you have your contractors on board and everything is lined up um you would be about two weeks in a school for the physical build and then just a lot of work tying everything in um but I do think there's also some room for economy I don't know exactly what the economy would be you know if we end up spending less money on this we'll give it back and it can be repurposed to another project somewhere else but um I definitely think this is something that we could do and I'd love to do over next summer I agree with you 100% I just the construction piece isn't too significant and I think it's an attractive project even for some smaller groups to be able to potentially uh bid and you might see one or two different groups doing you know two or three different projects [Music] all right any more questions for Dr Lane or director [Music] Clancy sorry is 23 years olds it is 23 years old for msba eligibility oh sorry that section is it 20 I can check right now to confirm that I have the uh roof roof track report check I'll check McCarthy right now so it's 20 is 22 years old so in 26 it will be 23 years old so I sorry I just programmed to 26 so it'll be 23 years old next year no the reason I ask is is as Jay mentioned earlier we got funding for design for the uh sou South School roof roughly 50% approxim so if this is going to be A3 and. half million doll roof project can we can we like stretch this thing till 25 is the cut off for funding for roofs this year know what it will be in the future the minimum right but the point of it if you know if we can carry this a couple years you're talking qualify 50 reimbursement for3 and5 million I don't know the condition of the roof I haven't seen the roof report but is that something that we can almost like a you some kind of PCH or some kind of a job to or is the roof zro gone that it won't last that's the question because question of% half million it's a good question so so yeah so I guess the only thing there is there are a so the section we're requesting right now the oldest with the solar um that's like the $1.2 million we're looking at last year's funding this year that is 22 years currently so we'll be 23 years next year the request that we're programming in for next year is a 20-year- old roof so that two and the problem is the roof that we have now that we're going for is actively leaking um so ask we come this is the bad all these prods at least we now have the answer no it's good to have that detail I think the fair so we moving forward the design right now and I think in the design that is part of our like how would you how would you phase this is there anything so is we're asking the consultant that is part of the their design so if they're if they see a potential way to stretch it it's just the fact that it's actively leaking and it's um I we don't think there's any uh easy repair to do or or Band-Aid you know beyond just going in and fixing a leak as it as they appear it's a legiate question because what's going to be behind it eventually is the high school group that's the only Built that big and that's going to be another three we get there at least we want to be able to answer people why didn't you get when we got the South Row yeah the high school actually so looking at the five years the high school roof is a 17-year roof and that's that's you're talking a $3 million roof so and then Harrington roof is the same age as the high school that's um a that's sorry the problem is the roofs aren't BL in conjunction with the state's reimbursement schedule maybe that's something and I discussed with the state ref saying look you know these these RS don't have a useful life for 25 years but yet you're only allowing funding to replace them on a 25 year basis because it does you can see it does have a material impact on the town's ability don't point of the state program is to help communities deal with major issues like roofs and you know rewi placing all the windows on a building or you know that kind of thing so I think it's I think it's interesting to note that you see the disconnect well I'm glad you brought back up the um discussion about mcarthy because at that point and we were trying to find out what happened to that 300,000 that we were able to remove off the other roof project and I see there is solar on McCarthy but yet it doesn't say uh what the other cost about removing and replacing the solar on this one where there is solar on yeah so I think that's that's baked into the $1.25 million estimate so the estimate I have from roof track is less than the estimate that's included in your sheet and so I think it's I didn't carry as other cost but I did include that number okay um and that's the remove and reset I don't know if that's where that 300 was supposed to belong that's where originally was last year I think what going to show it this year because we've now kind of split into phases I just carrying it as one um total number to Paul's point though like when we get together when we talk and we look at these different projects if a designer ever came up and said you know if you wait a year you know we could potentially qualify like we' obviously do that we'd come back and bring that to you um I think the particular section like McCarthy that I'm talking about now isn't going to make the cut to be able to potentially get into the to the msba pipeline the other thing the msba is doing is they're switching from every year to every other year year having the accelerator repair so we also have to think about that because if you have to wait 2 years to get in and then it's basically two years by the time you fund design and build you're adding a good amount of time onto the project like the South Row roof project will be done during the summer of 26 so um even though we just got invited in there's a lot of lead time working with the msba so you certainly get a bank for your buck because you're getting about half back but um it definitely lengthens the time of the project yeah the other to be eligible for um msba not only is it 25 at least 25 years but $250,000 so I thought of that too with the center school because that's roof is over 25 years but it's under $250,000 so again as part of the study or the the design that we be having the consultant do um we I guess a question is could is there one you know above the gym is that where it's leaking the most and maybe that becomes an immediate project and maybe there is something to push to the msba so that is that will be part of the immediate scope that we're undertaking thank you any more questions thank you for that information thank you thank you that concludes all the look The look at all the projects um under discussion I did want to mention just a followup from last week so a question arose on the um Chumps Center for the Arts that was the painting project and the uh refinishing of the hardwood floor so I did have an opportunity to speak with Bond counsel and although the the the Department of Revenue doesn't issue explicit guidelines on painting it's Bond council's opinion that um if painting is part of an an incidental part of a project and by that they mean for example if you were constructing walls like we talked about with the school project tonight and you are you're constructing walls or repairing sheetrock and you happen to need to do painting to refinish the surface that's okay that's permitted but if painting is the major scope of the project then it's not they did not feel comfortable um you know um borrowing for that and then on the the hardwood floor ref finishing uh kind of a similar story um if you were replacing damaged boards replacing the actual hardwood flooring that would most that would qualify for borrowing purposes um there's also some questions in talking with um facilities that because the CCA is such an old building you know you can only refinish a hardwood floor so many times because as a people sometimes have the wrong impression that the hardwood goes all the way down and reality there's usually a layer and every time you sand it refinish it you take away a layer so that needs further study so just wanted to get back to the committee on that um and then also under uh before we get into questions and discussion um town of count John on that point though uh I remember that discussion I think the other the question was the validity of the quote because I think to your point we probably need a leg legitimate quote right well right I would like to have right and the instructions that the town manager and I provide to all department heads is that they if it's a facilities related project it has to go through um director cency and her staff So based on that I mean I would recommend that we do we defer that project and do some it needs further investigation but I just want to get back to everybody on the borrowing aspect so next um Town account Darlene luciao has um a summary Forest on some recaptured funds from PRI projects yep so these are all um actually facility projects or DPW projects facility projects um basically um that Christine um and her staff like looked over the list to see what they had left um on these projects um and again I commend her for doing these projects and coming in um under what the actual costs were so you can see that we had the elementary kitchen upgrade that was a a fiscal uh 21 project we had a 22 the other three are the fiscal 22 projects the Harrington floor replacement we had uh oer ladder and Gates um actually you'll see them in the in these buildings out here they put some gates um and things along the the buildings for safety and then the biome and Harrington boilers uh so those four projects she could uh recapture the funds that were left over there so they're just under $30,000 27,44 so it's not a not a lot but it's a little something we'll take it right yeah definitely helps great so that so that's good we have summary captured funds that's good news um does anyone in the committee wanted have questions a discussion about anything we heard I do have a question John on the when we were talking initially we were saying that there are about 6.55 million in requests with a target of 5.8 to 5 .9 but if I'm looking at the total on the um prioritization sheet that I'm looking at the total here is 8.1 for just DPW so it seems like the numbers somewhere are off I think that might be a is it a typo yeah just eyeballing eyeballing it the the nons school section right there's it the total indicates is 3.99 but yeah that doesn't doesn't look right the numbers the numbers look like it's only one point something okay yeah I'll double check that when we sent out the worksheet um but I would say you know for this purpose of this this let's we'll use this for the priority um the the it's helpful to have like the department heads priority rankings and then we'll I'll send everybody a worksheet and I'll have I'll double check the totals of everything okay yeah that's like that only adds up to like yeah that yeah no you're you're exactly right that doesn't it come up to threo okay and same with the one below it y so maybe not but one definitely so John what's the target number again that your feeling I would 5.8 to 5.9 million similar to last year that would be T you know I mean if we're off a small amount we can discuss it but I think that's a good range Bas and and the whole the limiting factor is really our non-excluded debt service schedule we just have we've um we've had a number of projects in recent years so just an observ right I think the the Departments have done a great job right in bringing us something that actually feels manageable and not overwhelming you know it feels like we ought to be able to get to something reasonable yeah I agree David when I first looked at it I mean it wasn't it's I I think you know we we talking last week about prioritizing and that and I think many of the projects you know we've seen I don't want to um shade anyone's you know own thoughts on him but you're right I think uh people did a a better job prioritizing him and realizing that with funds are limited and so it's a we're much closer to a Target all right do we have any um any more discussion we have do we have any anyone wants to make any public comments no not seeing any um our oh I'm sorry I sept over the minutes um we have did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes from November 14th yes okay all right any corrections or anything no all right and entertain a motion to accept the minutes from November 14th I'd like to make a motion to accept the minutes for November 14th of this year last week motion by Joe do we have a second second by David David I second the motion all those in favor please say I I I I all those opposed looks unanimous all right so we that brings us pretty close to the end so just want a reminder um our next meeting date is Thursday December 5th we'll be off next week because of the Thanksgiving holiday just change a location we're going to be over at the school committee meeting room at 2:30 North Road and it's 1 hour later than this week it's at 7 p.m. so if anybody has any comments or anything if and like past years you'll send yes I'll send that worksheet because I find that helpful if I get every all the members vote on certain projects or indicate their preference then we can Target the ones that people think are questionable saves a lot of time and think it's worked well no that's great all right if nobody has anything else entertain a motion to adjourn I move to adjourn move to adjourn by Chris second by Joe all those in favor please say I all opposed unanimous we're adjourned thank you