e call this meeting to order my 8th meeting of the Chums planning boards which will be live and on Zoom um should the zoom go down we will continue the meeting nonetheless uh first we'll open with public input well we should also identify there's board members on on Zoom yes oh yes on Zoom we have John who's ill and Anita and Mike is going to be 10 minutes late good um thank you Joel so um do we have anyone for public input okay um nothing for administrative review we have an awful lot of continuances first 110 middle sex Sweet Street sweet 1 marchie LLC I'll take a motion do we need to read that we just need to pick a date Uh I that we continue to was see 522 522 yeah second that all in favor I I and John and Anita do you concur with continuing can John hear us John can you hear John can you hear us Johnny can you hear me is it heer on Johnny I see him but he doesn't can you hear us John is Anita on Anita's on but she's can you show us your happy face right a not sounds like neither one can hear us hello [Music] hello pollen is high [Music] there's the camera all right can you guys hear us I'll go a text wake up oh here he goes I don't see chat here take chat I don't I don't even see it I think he just got the text no we're on mute he's on mute too he's [Music] muted what's up should we should we assume that we can't hear you no one can hear us yeah we he can so we'll start again after we get that sored away Anita can you hear us we can't hear you must be on our end Curtis is looking at it okay thank you okay thank you Virginia Chris can you text the I did oh thank you we have John's number I've been text three so Nita said she and John can hear each other but they can't hear us they can't hear us that's interesting huh that's I wonder if I just shut down sorry John you're gonna have to come in I don't know if it's Zoom related or you could restart it right I'm going I think I'm going to shut it down and restart sounds good we are we have technical difficulties you did say that we would continue I'm just joking yeah [Music] I did say that do you want to move over one you you look at the pollen count today only a doctor could say that yeah doctor I didn't wear a mask yeah how about you just slide that way a little bit we are continuing right though come on let's get this I would assume they would be o amenable this yeah we could yeah we EV was there anyone else on zo we still have a majority so we can still Pro Rob Smith yeah so we have a majority so we can proceed to the next item well technically we can do business but we ought to be able to get this fixed yeah just going to say we have the technology but I'm sure we do I've heard that before Casey nice do huh nice do all right what do we have how many other hearings do you have on the 22nd that's a question too no not nothing new whatever you continue tonight so we'll have hildr if the studies are all done right and then didn't we push someone off already to the 2 second I thought we made us yeah we kicked someone out two meetings I forget who that was was that any can you hear us now M saxs we'll have dumfounded okay that's fine I was just wondering if we already had loaded up once um I I'm supposed to have it muted you don't [Music] have who's talking they were muted Virginia he's did the back they are now they don't hear us yet or we don't hear them they do yes giving AUM we're good John you can hear us all right so J he can hear us but we can't hear him hold up I got to tell him to hold up signs sign language should we start again I can hear you but just take this item okay please hold up some signs how about if we at least approve the continuances works for me so I made the motion it was seconded okay all in favor of approving the continuance of uh HTH no no it was the mle street they okay I'm favor yes are they continuing also yes yes oh boy it's getting shorter and shorter yeah okay uh motion to I'll take a motion regarding 10 hildra I move that we continue that to the 22nd is that I'll second that all in favor I I I okay before we go on she said I she she voted good Plus voted John didn't vote before we go on um to the next thing I would like to ask that any letters of continuance not include um debate and arguments because we can't respond to them if we're continuing yeah so I would ask that if we do get a letter of continuance from an applicant that it only be a letter of continuance and not a letter that includes information for the hearing itself I think that makes sense yeah because it is now in the record and we can't respond to it okay so next up we have do we want to continue K yeah why don't we do that one take a motion I will move that we uh continue uh 93 brick kill till the 22nd I'll second that all in favor I both eyes up there John and Anita all eyes and then um do we want to um are we do we solve our technical difficulties no do we want to um do the minutes out of order why not well we're still waiting on the technical difficulties before we advance to 270 that sound like a good plan sounds good did everyone have a chance to read the minutes yeah in their voluminous I can't say as I saw anything let's look at me I'll make a motion approve the minutes on let John and Anita do you guys have give a thumbs up if you are approving the meeting minutes thumbs up thumbs up okay on February I did note a couple errors that I did send in to Becky um February 14th the MBTA slides um it was Mike Walsh and not Mike risbeck that worked on the slides right you can give him credit my name is also like consistently spelled wrong with yeah and then I had instead o I had a misspelling on March 27th number five on the brick kill and vote so those are the only two corrections I sent into to Becky okay and she's going to modify them yeah okay uh take a motion motion to approve second the five minutes as specified with the corrections as specified it's going to get us pretty much up to date yep all in favor I I any opposed two over there okay they're good two two a eyes on the zoom call and I think that we are now up to 27070 Road and they are here the question is how is uh John and Anita going to be able to yeah yeah he's here I don't know if he'll be able to speak I don't know if we'll hear him or not I should probably test that Robie can you hear us and are you able to speak and so hopefully we can hear you no can't hear him no we don't hear you oh that's a problem so ctm is looking into it they think the issue is is that uh there's two ctms logged in indicating that there's a host in me and then there's a second ctm is there any way each one of us can make a phone call like I could call John you could call aner and you could call the peer review and then have them ones that work it's getting you could do that just move the mic down we'll be able to communicate sign language I only know a couple of things yeah and you wouldn't want to display them in public well how about if we just did the um consultant and then if Anita or John I mean yeah I would like them to participate in the discussion if there is any but maybe we could at least get the presentations done and maybe by then it will be scored away well we don't we don't hear the consultant we can't hear the consult can't hear anybody on Zoom yeah yeah but can we have him call in oh I seriously call into to what we I mean put on speaker call the bat phone bat phone old school how did you zoom back in the 70s what phone there's no phone no he would call on his phone he'll call out oh who was that I heard a noise we got noises was that one of us I don't think so Johnny can you hear me maybe my suggestion is maybe we recess for 10 minutes yeah just shut shut the zoom down completely okay recess for 10 minutes and see if they can figure it out sure okay that's what we're going to do okay for now sounds like a plan there's only take a motion to recess I move to recess second all in favor [Music] I e e e e e e e e John do you hear us watch the Brady Ro you're muted you're muted I watch try it without being muted all right let's hear you no he you so close so close think I don't know what it is it's too bad going tell them to yell this like the only time well guess that's un true it happens so how were the sounds you like them the instrumentals were great their voices aren't so good St and Neil Young John try talking now coming yeah I think so literally dozed off was like a head e e yeah fortunately e you print it out it's pretty quickly what do you guys think you want to wait to open the meeting back up Rob's not even with us at this point given up go on now hello there we are hey what's that good me so I guess we're on now we're going to restart we're having some technical difficulties for any of you watching at home um we're going to restart the planning board meting meeting of May 8th and um while we did not have a connection we had several continuances um and we um voted on those so now we're going to um this is 270 yeah we're going to continued public hearing for 270 Bill rer Road DH Holdings and Company consideration for modifying or resending a minor mod from June 14th 23 good evening Madam chair members of the board Douglas Des Shan from fer and Nicholson here representing uh DH properties Holdings um we had intended to cover three issues tonight uh one was a review of the peer review uh from beta um which as I understand and based on my reading um seemed to be a good peer revieww for us it seems that most if not all all the issues have been addressed at least with respect to uh what beta was uh peer reviewing um the second item we wanted to talk about was the question relating to the project elevation um there have been questions by some board members and discussions of um even though we've now redesigned uh the project and we've provided our Ram plan and our onm plan and all of the other things that beta has reviewed there is appears to be still some questions relating to uh what changing the elevation of the project would do in terms of protection but also project impact so Casey's going to give you a quick overview and show you uh what is entailed at the current elevation versus if we were to bring the elevation up another foot or not drop it the full 2 and 1/2 ft uh what that would mean so we'd really like to get to the bottom of that so that we can put that question behind us um and the third issue we want to talk about is as you will recall uh my clients have agreed to a um you know a third-party reviewer construction overview or you know overview during actual uh parts of the construction um again we've agreed to that but we do want to talk with the board about a defined scope of you know what the board would like to see reviewed at what interval at what particular process whatnot so again we would' love to get that issue resolved so that it can be reflected in uh the decision and there'll be no questions going forward or during construction as to the scope of that plus also as you can uh imagine my clients would like a little Financial predictability with what to expect to pay uh for that reviewer um so with that um we're going to skip over the beta thing um but I would like uh uh Casey's going to come up and give a a little presentation on the elevation question and then we can discuss that all right uh good evening to the board Casey Ferrero with Howard s Hudson um so as was discussed at the last meeting I've prepared two exhibits here um the first exhibit which I believe is up on your screen now shows um excavation with the potential to conflict with the groundwater SL groundwater plus 2T Zone I believe that's what it refers to as the Vos Zone um and this is the zone that we're proposing to be managed at any time that it is encountered um so you'll see on the screen is there is yellow highlights as well as red highlights the red highlights is where excavation goes below the groundwater Contour elevation um as derived from Ed's Hydro Geo um and the most locations where it's red is where we're installing a structure a structure that extends deeper um with a with a stone bedding and and whatnot so the excavation goes a little bit deeper than just trenching for uh drainage pipes uh and again the yellow is just where we get within that plus two foot Zone um so as is Casey before you go on what file is this I just sent this as a I can provide it oh Haven it now so you guys can review it but um I just wanted to present this to you guys okay so as you can kind of tell this back area this back corner is kind of the corner of concern where we're getting the deepest and the lowest um and then scattered throughout here we just have structures that kind of sink into that Zone um Ed if you'll go to the next one so on this plan um it shows if the site were just uniformly raised by one foot which um realistically could that happen or not unlikely but if we just did a uniform one foot raise over the entire site um what the only real difference is what used to extend to about halfway or 3/4 down the back Drive aisle into that plus two foot zone is now limited to maybe the first quarter of the building um but the structures that dove into the groundwater before still do um with the exception of these four catch basins those are just now in that BOS zone or that zone that's to be managed anyway um the reason I didn't go up to plus two feet is because the original filing was only plus 2.5 from this um so we'd essentially if we went up 2T we'd be back to basically the original filing so I I did an analysis here of Plus one foot and then uh the as proposed um I will mention that this corner where we do have our area of concern is at about the same elevation as that original filing where the remainder of the site is about plus 2.5 but this corner just because of the pinch Point down to the Wetland and how we had to grade it back up that corner is about the same elevation but the drainage pipes below are just a little bit deeper um so is there a difference in how much we'd be in that zone yes um I you know my opinion would be that it's fairly minor we're still in zones where we're going to have to manage it regardless um but then additionally if we talk about raising the entire site uniformly by a foot we're talking about approximately 8,000 cubic yards of fill across the entire thing as opposed to the as compared to we're only at 4,000 now so we'd be D doubling our fill adding that so we'd be at 12,000 so it's really tripling The Fill um which then has in Turn Construction impacts bringing trucks in ETC so we can dive down that path if you'd like or we can answer questions about that um what would the cost of that be approximately uh I do know look at that at all at well when we were at the plus 2.5 um I believe the we were looking at about half a million in Phill um so if we we cut that in half maybe we're at 250 300,000 in additional cost for fill but that was also as of the cost a year ago I don't know if costs have gone up since then um but that's about where we were at I believe you see estimates on the trucks yeah so the additional amount of trucks for and I guess it depends on what type of trucks I use they could use an eight 18wheeler with a dump on it or they could use a typical uh you know 12 or 16 yard truck but um just the additional so not total but just the additional fill would be about 400 to 500 trucks um and as compared to right now the total proposal is about 150 to 200 so you know if you add that on top we're essentially tripling the trucks mhm so the red the red squares that's that's where there's some kind of a post or footing or something that's most of those are catch basins or manhole structures okay or the jelly the two jellyfish structures as well they go pretty deep where are the jellyfish structures on there sure so we have two jellyfish structures one is directly adjacent to the building here that handles roof R off and there's another jellyfish structure right there um that also handles roof but just a portion of the roof that goes this way are there any of those installed in town these jellyfish structures or any nearby that I could look at what that uh I could find out from cont if they've sold some for projects I haven't used them until now because their main use is phosphorus and that's a fairly new regulation in town so Joel do you see any benefit to raising the site compared to what the analysis we just see s um well actually what I wanted to do is to take a closer look at these charts because I think I can infer I mean I think that we weren't I I wasn't necessarily convinced that that the number that they were using for the seasonal High groundwater was was accurate and so I I think I can infer that if it's a foot off or so what that would look like so I think I would still want to do that but other than that uh I mean certainly if it was you know a large large percentage of the area that that goes away when you raise it a foot up then I think I'd be much more inclined to it but this seems very isolated and that was the other thing I was concerned about too is I didn't want it to be spread all over the place but if it's fairly isolated then I'm a little less concerned so off the top of my head but I still want to look at it good sure yeah so I um if there are no other questions on that I do have some additional information for om andm that I know was brought up last time um so if there are no other questions we can move on to that all right so uh I know Paul you brought up um at the last meeting the requirement for backwashing jellyfish um and that kind of caught me off guard because I wasn't aware that that was a requirement I believe you were referring to the r tank systems uh the r tank systems require backwashing if sediment buildup is greater than 6 in to a foot inside those um and that's a standard practice for subsurface systems because you have to wash the sediment to an access point um but in this specific scenario where the r tank system is only tied into roof runoff and not into pavement or sidewalks there's no expectation of sediment being built up in there and then also there's the pre-treatment of the jellyfish before it um so really the expectation of sediment within that R tank system is low To None um the the jelly fish system itself um joelie you were correct in part that there is significant cost just in the cartridges themselves um the typical cleaning of them is similar to a catch Basin where you open up you open it up you get to the sump of it vac it out like a catch Basin would um but every 2 to three years need to replace the cartridges so that's where the the extensive cost comes in and those cartridges can be up to I think the total for what we found was about $114,000 for all the cartridges on the site so everything three years about 14 grand um and then in the Years uh in between where you're not replacing them you just remove them wash them out with like a regular garden hose and you can replace them and extend their life that way um and then I already addressed the r tank so I believe that was the the two questions on omm that we had there are they the only company that makes something like that are they the one company that has that there are several companies that make items like the jellyfish you're referencing yeah yeah that's there are several companies Conta is probably the biggest but they're also the most responsive and most helpful which is why I've chosen to use them here they call the sting ray they don't get along yeah same clients okay does anyone else have any more questions about the project elevation or the OM andm well an and John may but we don't know anyone else that's here this is true able to speak um okay so then do we want to go to the um scope of the third party construction overview my recommendation since that's more of a discussion would be to wait for yeah John and Anita okay I think we're gonna want and also I think we did ask did did we not ask beta for their inputs on what the scope would be I thought we had I don't remember in the letter though respon I think we may have talked about having the applicant submit a draft so that the board could review and can probably as a team come up with a general scope that we would like and then if we come to the next meeting uh we can kind of zero in on what that scope might look like um I think our intention tonight was to kind of open that discussion and see where the board's uh Direction wanted it to go um so that we could have a starting place but I think just in the interest of time we'd like to uh we can draft up a scope on our own and we can discuss it next time okay um and what about the performance guarantee we had yeah that was something I think you mentioned yeah yeah and I I I assumed that uh that we were GNA I think what we asked for was an estimate of what the cost so that that's what the 14,000 is an estimate of the replacement cost for the jellyfish every yeah so what I've done since the last time we met was I reached out to each manufacturer of each item that we're using to get a a more concise yearly cost and all the mm's that you've received in the May 1st document has all those updated costs um so you can use that document as kind of a guideline okay but yeah that 14,000 is just every three years so right right okay okay so that's probably something that we want to draft up ourselves and then propose that um if I could just add something to the uh discussion of um the third party peer review scope um I'm sure it's obvious to everyone we are trying to wrap things up here um it was our hope uh that if we could get through the beta review and it seemed to be satisfactory to the board um and if we could um you know discuss the project eligibility uh elevation which we did um and thirdly figure out the scope of the peer reviewer that we felt would' be in a position at the next hearing to discuss the draft decision because we could integrate this third party scope we could integrate you know a final decision on the elevation and of course you could report in the decision that Beta had reviewed and were comfortable um and I still think we can potentially do that although we'll be reviewing the beta stuff at the same hearing we're going to talk about hopefully talk about a decision um again that the the issue of the elevation once Joel's had a chance to look at that stuff you know we could then wrap that up too in that same meeting I I'm a little concerned though with the third party reviewer that if we if we send you guys a you know a suggested scope um we're going to get to that next meeting and then I would suspect you're going to want to have beta review it so we're going to get pushed again so I'm wondering if we can't put that scope together and submit it directly to the board and to Beta I think that'd be great so that they would have time for that next hearing hopefully to say we agree or we disagree with the scope we can come to an agreement on it and then we can move to a discussion of the draft decision so does that I I guess that's all I'm asking would that be okay to send that directly to Beta I think so and and that's in part because I don't think we have a in I think that we would be relying heavily upon what Rob thinks a good peer review would be I mean a good uh you know uh independent review would be anyway so so I think that makes sense as opposed to other things where typically we do like to dig into a little bit so is this in independent reviewer um like the clerk of the works of the install is that what we're thinking about is that what you're so that they are verifying we're trying to figure that out well I would I would think at least they would involve someone who is is there for the for the construction meeting and who then is following up regularly to see that all of the things that in place particularly for the ramp plan and so forth and so on are being followed okay uh is my I would think that's primarily what we'd be not not a traditional Clerk of all works right right no but but a part particular one that's knowledgeable in this department yes yes right and we even we even talked about maybe I think we talked about maybe it's a service that beta could provide right sure we agree with that right who has more knowledge of the site other than us than beta um and you know quite honestly we don't have a problem with them suggesting the scope even though they might be doing it because I think we're going to be able to provide we have a good enough understanding of what the board I think uh what the board wants in terms of oversight we've never talked about having someone there full-time you know that wouldn't make sense but we have talked about the fact that again I I think you know at the start off kickoff meetings be given this construction schedule maybe they do a a weekly review and report but during the the actual uh RAM as we're you know doing the soil and doing the thing when we know we're going to be in those areas and doing that work that would be probably we expect when you'd want the peer reviewer to say yes they're taking the soil correctly they're handling it correctly they're putting it in the right place right and check right so we'll put that scope together I think again we'll we'll do a good job of it and then we can work with Bader and and and get that finalized the one thing I would ask is if we're expecting to close this out at the next meeting that we have all of the material that we're going to be discussing and reviewing well in advance of that meeting like the Friday at least before the peer review stuff everything because I don't have time during the week necessarily to review this m okay we continuing to take a motion want go to the 20 second Contin you want to go to this also going to the 22nd yes okay the next one would be after that would be June 12th do the board of favor and go to June 12th sorry why don't we go to the 22nd I I just don't have Authority for my client to go beyond I mean we assumed if we were going to be contined it was going to be the 22 are we going to be able to get the documentation on the Friday before just for clarity the documentation that we're talking about is just the the scope that we're writing up and then any back and forth with beta regarding review of it yeah yeah there's nothing there's nothing else outstanding that I'm missing there but as long as we can get their uh approval on it right on that Friday like something written from beta you guys are In Cahoots on this all right if if the board is the intent is that the board has beta's peer review back by Friday the 17th from experience beta needs at least probably two full days particularly where they hav't this is an entirely new submission without outstanding issues you know everything cleared up right I don't know how detailed these things are or complicated they are I'll make a motion to move the public hearing to the 22nd continue we can always I will second and we can always adjust it if we find if circumstances indicate we're not going to get the documents in time yes everybody in favor I I we'll assume there well thank you very much for your time sorry we had to deal with technical diffic difficulty yeah [Music] well they're here to make our lives easier right I love it thank you very much have a great thank you all right okay well that leaves us in an odd position everybody go over what John sent huh yeah John had written a draft of the Adu letter a chance to take a look at that I did is Anita and John back on Anita's on John they both dropped off for a moment Anita is back on John is not um are you able to get them up on the screen so that we can at least see them I don't control that part of it oh um it's awfully strange what's going on with this tonight and Rob we're all set uh on 270 we'll be in touch is he still there a bit like how know anybody remembers 2001 Space Odyssey treat me signal that it's a bit like it's a bit like how all right so do we want to go tackle the um MBTA warrant article update and next steps or think we should hold that as well no I mean we can I can give an update give where we're standing and and then give my suggestions for next steps um so the motion the um article passed to town meeting I think everyone's aware of that um Dorene did uh go to the town clerk to pull uh papers for getting it on the ballot um she has been um getting signatures around town uh believe the deadline from Trisha is Friday Thursday at 4 is what I heard so I heard today it was Friday at one I think since they close early I think in the paper it said the 9th yeah so initially I was told Thursday the 9th um said in the Sun but today I heard about a Friday deadline and I thought I heard four but that doesn't make sense because 4 o'clock is after closing hours on a Friday um well if that's the case I mean the clerk will has and will stay open Okay so let's assume that so it's Friday at 5 um from Trisha it is Friday at 5: so she has until then to gather I think it's almost 1,400 signatures 1480 or something uh something like that um and then it goes to the select board to um set at an election date special election my recommendation is if it does go to a townwide vote we should publish information FAQs uh on the town's website um we should reach out to town meeting reps to have them contact uh folks across town um and get the word out about what the facts are for this topic so I I have a couple things I mean one is that from the conversations just the weekend before town meeting um online it was clear that a number of people including some town meeting reps were just kind of tuning in um for the first time um which makes me feel a bit daunted in terms of shocked approaching a much larger population um I think that in the past when there have been things like this there have been you know people forming committees um with you know groups I mean one thing is that we brought forth our article and got it past a town meeting so in I I would say that the formal objectives we've completed and in some ways I would love it if we can um make this be more of a larger group going forward that's bringing it forth that being the town meeting reps as you said maybe have Precinct captains or something like that of people reaching out I don't know about walking walking precincts I don't know if that's reasonable but I think um there's going to have to be like Grassroots organizing and I don't know that we necessarily have to or should be yeah um I think if it goes to a town Vall we just got to get people to the polls yeah the issue that's the biggest thing the big the biggest worry that we would have here is being outnumbered is being is is having the attendance at the poll stack yeah and that's what I that's what I fear that's the only thing I feel there enough in order for this to pass at the polls it does need a significantly High turnout I think 15% is what I remember I read that somewhere um that's higher than normal elections however I do think that there for hot button issues like overrides and like this override people were numb go two wheelchairs so the question I have is since we did our job and brought it to town meeting is it's still our responsibility ility to fight this on behalf of the Town it feels we or is this now is this now at the select board level in town manager level to in the the entire town it's it's not planning board versus dorine in a public yeah in a public it gets weird it's like it's the town now versus a proponent that's trying to knock it down so I think the town has to come together with the committee to say how do we back this and it's not I think should position ourselves a valid point cuz you this is a weird situation where we would be out like and that's what iing just for the plan not for the the for the bill itself I think you know what I mean it gets a little confusing there be people like oh they want that you know what I mean they they're all proposing I I think we're much safer positioning ourselves as an information Source than as a proponent advocating that's right opponent and I think we have to stick to that role but I do agree that it should not just be the planning board absolutely not Absol so my recommendation once the once this goes before the select board I'm assuming they'll have to call a special meeting to discuss this um once we find that out I my recommendation is the planning board vote to rec recommend to the select board that they appoint a special committee for publicity on the facts and information so that that can be pushed out townwide the um if once the S board once the clerk certifies the uh petition signatures and the select board meets don't they have a certain number of days to yeah is that do we know what that number is I think I read 60 I've been look I've been trying looking for those to set the date or to actually have for the special election to take place so what you're so what you're contemplating is a a special committee that is basically serving a 60-day purpose at and do we I know we had an exchange um did you get any Clarity from do you want to share any that yeah so there was a question and it's still not clear to me so um that question may it it may need to go before the select board with Paul Hy um because it is not clear like Mike said it's not clear that elected officials can be a proponent of a position yeah uh but they can disseminate factual information so so maybe logistically maybe the the planning boards um ask of the select board is when that's on an agenda yeah that maybe there's a separate art a separate agenda item with Paul H's in attendance yeah I don't know if this needs to be a joint meeting or if it's um members of the planning board can can forward their questions but it sounds like if the town's interested in appointing this committee having har Council there to really provide clarity as to what the rules of engagement are is pretty yeah but I think it's pretty clear and we can probably vote on this it's pretty clear that most of the people in this room don't feel it's our responsibility to lead that it's a townwide issue now and it should be the select board so Clarity can be provided but then what's the process then the process should be the select board probably yeah I think I think that accurately that's the way I feel anyway and you had mentioned um I think You' mentioned that the statute requires a minimum of 15% is that what you were saying to vote to have vot Les if less than 15% actually turn out and vote does that mean it fails oh wow that's another Vue but I I given what's happened in other towns and what happens usually with these ballot questions the turnout usually goes pretty high yeah cuz they'll see okay so I would not count on my biggest concern would be making sure that there's accurate information that's out there it's already and I which I understand it's not but I think um if we do go down this road and if there is a committee then I think is probably a mailing to every home with facts so that there's correct information that's coming from the town to all the residents for them to vote on it because heay is not going to go in our favor and I would be happy to participate in that committee from the planning board with someone else if they want but I I don't have the time to lead that type of effort and it's even questionable whether the not 100% clear whether town can even do that send a mailer out on Town letterhead or I'm just saying how do you get facts out agreed right agreed right and then cuz there's false information on the other side right now and people are you know right lying reach out to people that you know in town and and make sure I mean I mean it's worth asking Hy if this committee could host um Precinct meetings right and the precinct members get the word out to the people who live in those there's a variety of ways to engage with the with the U with the voters but in either case it should be that committee doing it and not us yeah so agre I would like to make a motion that we ask the select board to add an agenda item if and when this does come up to them the special election that they um have also Paul Hy in attendance to answer the question about what role the town can play in disseminating factual information and what role who can play yeah to be and if the town can do it um appoint a committee to lead that effort of uming out factual information I didn't know if it was that i' second that oh what is that all in favor didn't touch anything that's for my Mike Mike you voting Anita you voting I'm good for keep switching over she's there's a ra is John on she's definitely no it shouldn't have we seen John lately and joh uh they're there yes John is there it's too late now it doesn't matter figure out I don't know John's your camera on I can't reach top so it's unanimous okay would you like me to reach out to the chair or would you like to do that to Pat join and I ad why not Virginia you why don't you okay I will reach out to Pat okay next what's next we missing anything what can we talk about right now without communication next is Le's on updates uh did conservation um so conservation met yesterday um um it was a work session um where they did not take public input uh it was kind of frustrating because a lot of the issues and questions they had um were pretty much the exact discussions that we had when we were doing our policy discussion yeah and I could have helped them out quite a bit and made it a quicker meeting than two hours but um but they ended up getting through a lot of stuff uh they want to tighten up the um the policies and procedures for their hearings making sure things go faster um similar to what we had U put in place where we we have information uh coming to us ahead of time so we can read it they're doing a similar uh policy um it's funny because they're asking for an information documentation repository um because a lot of the information they get on these projects they get from our agenda links [Laughter] yeah so um uh so that how does that work do we have a way to do that no um I've been asking for it for three years I did reach out to Trisha about this and the system that's in place right now um I forget the name of it doesn't have the capacity to really do that um the best they can do is what we're doing now but um they do want to have have some document repository um in place let me ask a stupid question when you're looking for something back in an old meeting how do you go about that I use the agendas y yeah I use the agendas it's the best way yes have to click on the agenda go through every agenda find out who was there yeah in a true document in a true document repository you could search you could have project folders there should be a program not in place right now um and so Trisha does know that that is kind of needed but there are other priorities right now um so yeah uh the other things that they talked about were a lot of the communication between boards um that will get discussed at the um Gap analysis that the DPW is going to be um pushing forward uh so we'll wait to hear more information about that but a lot of the same issues that we've seen about where do we share information how do we get information from the different boards and groups they're also struggling with too um so hopefully that Gap analysis will help that and figuring out where the lanes are yep okay um anyone else have any liaison updates uh the uh master plan plan committee is meeting next Wednesday uh getting some of the uh stakeholders and the various items on the master plan is is a bit like pulling teeth but we've actually started to get a little bit of reaction we got some stuff today um not a great deal to report there but the the committee is alive and it is well uh Scott ral's done a really good job by the way stuff together uh Center Village we started with ncog it was kind of get together meeting yep to do some um we're supposed to have a site walk through like walk the town of chelsford did you know sener um and then come up with a game plan is pretty much what we want to like a zoning update or overlay update for the we want them to go through yeah we got to kind of narrow down the escope basically um I had a email yesterday I believe from Pat will just inviting us um anyone who would like to attend to a um Municipal open housee to be held between the um all the Committees in town and the town's people it's to be held at the public library on um June 12th at 6:00 to 8 we also have a meeting that night at yeah I noticed that so maybe we should have our meeting start at 7:30 Evan and then you know if anyone who wants to go to that can like go and leave a little early um so I I'm going to try and go to that I don't know if anyone else I think the more the the more the better yeah I would where is it at the library June 12th at the LI oh yeah at the at the library and what is it I know you mentioned the name but is like is the planning board supposed to have a table there we can have a table if we want um and don't care anymore um is the purpose for interested residents to engage with with committee members it's to generate interest in you know people serving and knowing what what committees are doing and kind of um just general Outreach from other Town committees to the town citizens which I think is a great idea I think it's they did it last year I we had a meeting and we were we can talk we can talk about everything that we're talking about tonight there right I mean we could hand out the FAQs if we want to yep that might be a very good opportunity yep um although June 12th that oh so then I also have a text the just now from Anita saying that the election oh the election will be June 4th the eight things go June 4th oh that's quick wow that's quick how do we know would be I wish you could talk if there was a special town the town election for the MBTA I think it's a 30-day I don't 30 or 60 I thought it was I've lost track but one would be the select Bo meeting to take it out the next their next regular meeting is the 20th yeah but the SEL board I think will have to create a special meeting probably on Monday okay if it's the if it comes in at 5:00 put on their Reg date was likely something that the that the clerk's office identified as a viable date probably um John wants to call in to my phone and get on speaker for a topic okay John call me this is new look at this you might want to shut down you're going to get back oh you should be able to do it right to that M okay to shut your computer my computer's not on John you need to mute your okay can you hear me okay CHR that's yeah all right okay tell to mute his side yeah you need to mute your computer you did okay okay I'll just step away from that speakers ready to do can you hear me okay okay now or yeah yeah better all right okay good evening Madam chair M Mr Vice chair members of the committee uh sorry we're having so many technical issues tonight when we get to the Adu letter I just wanted to ask because I know we probably won't meet for another two weeks if anybody has any suggested edits would it be okay to ask you ask the committee members to send them to me because what I'd like to do is um work with Evan and Becky to get this letter finalized and then at the next meeting probably we could probably just pass it around once everybody agrees on it and ask everyone to just sign and then you know I could send it off electronically by email to get it to them quicker but we could also send you know regular mail copies if you wanted to if you wanted to be more formal but well you could do both just to ask people's thoughts I think we could do both and also I don't think we have to wait till the next meeting I mean we could agree to this in principle make a couple suggestions if people have them for edits at least in theory and then maybe once we have those edits you could send out a revised draft and get everybody's confirmation if I I don't expect there to be any glaring disagreements and then we could just get it out in the next you know maybe early part of next week maybe yeah that sounds great now my concern was just um not knowing how fast they would move on this legislature at the state house I just I think they're not doing it till July but I think the sooner we get our I mean I think we're already you know the schedule was such with MBTA and town meeting Etc but I think yeah we're already late right absolutely no that's why I figured time is of the essence yeah okay that sounds great to me okay thank you John it looks good thank you John looks good John thank you good night everyone good night hope you feel better um also there's a liaison report for the Board of Health oh that's got to be good tonight so I was I was there Monday night and Anita was there as well uh and um hildr came up uh and in that uh the Board of Health did uh request the 21 phase to be performed and that it would be performed uh sooner in other words not to wait until construction or whatever but have it done now uh so that we could consider it as part of our process as well uh and so just in general I thought the Board of Health did a really excellent job of uh clearly stating their position and why they were asking for what they were asking and so forth and so on and so uh uh so I say kudos to the Board of Health nice yeah and uh I think I think it's just a great to be able to uh you know be be share information and so forth so I think it's a real high degree of cooperation between us and the Board of Health and and the commission for that matter so yeah so it was uh really good and I there was other things but that was the main one I well also they requested a peer review of the yes of the hydrog hydro geologic study and it was also identified that there's pasas detected in two of those well the monitoring Wells and um that is in a report and I don't know if we have that report I have the report and I'm going to be sending it out okay so we'll be getting that report as well we got P everywhere yeah and it's another case of well you know we have infiltration upgradient yeah so but this this might be a little bit different but uh in any case we'll we can talk about that when we actually have the hearing thank you okay I don't know where my agenda is here we go um so annual goals and objectives I I mean I think that everyone has all iterated and reiterated that we want to work on zoning issues and conflicts I mean I guess it's maybe we shouldn't go into a lot of detail of making priorities but I think that's the first thing we need to do I think we need everybody or we need John and Anita to make a priority list but maybe if everyone could come up with two or three things that are their highest priority items MH before the next meeting and maybe we could send them um send them to Evan and have sort of like a scatter diagram of important topics we want to delve into and then we can make a punch list um does that sound reasonable mhm yep and then for new business we have before us an opportunity to reappoint um or appoint the master plan implementation Committee Member for oneyear term um I can quickly name off the names that you've already appointed uh Fred brusso James uh dearg Mike risbeck Scott Rummel Peter spawn Brian strip Deb TNA and Aaron Drew yeah it's a good it's a good team wasn't Glenn on that too Glenn is on it he had emailed me a while ago saying that he no longer could continue but I don't think he's officially submitted his resignation letter okay so shall we have a motion to reappoint the prior M master plan implementation committee I'll make a motion to reappoint uh ask the plan implementation committee has constituted I guess one year to what date you want to pick a date one year from now sure sure yeah second I all in favor okay another year okay I Adu letter does anyone have any edits at the moment you know let me talk a little bit about this in Far More general terms the Adu letter I think the Adu letter expresses what we talked about as a group uh and I got to thinking about it and talking with my better half over there as well the more I look at it the more it looks to me like a sophisticated piece of nimi uh the letter or the letter and our position I think something that would make me feel a lot better about it is if this group actually had a plan and a vision for increasing housing in chord and I don't see it I see this as a a response to we don't want any more development rather than a response to we can't handle more development is what it well you know we have a building code and stuff and and regulations on that will that will keep us from certainly on the sewage issues so what what I was thinking when I read it is maybe we should reword it as more of an ask for funding then yeah they get these from everybody but if we threw something say within the infrastructure like if we had money to tie down to the MW may help the situation in my town you know what I mean yeah or you know whatever school money well I also would would emphasize um maybe a bit more the fact of the owner occupancy requirement just that like that would be one thing that would mitigate at least probably some of the numbers I tend to I tend to agree with you I also think though I mean if you look at what the intention is of the bill it's I don't believe it is to produce you know four bedroom additional units no I think it's much more likely to produce one bedroom Studio granny pods and Studios I think I think the arguments about stressing the school structure are overstated I understand the issues with sewage and water or sewage in particular that controls itself to a considerable degree anyway because you know you're not going to be able to build it if you can't flush it and um and until that problem solves itself I think the uh uh a lot of increase housing is self-limiting but it's not because we've got a ton of projects in front of us that are just putting in septic systems instead well they are if they're allowed to I mean putting in a septic system is hard it's a lot harder than hooking up to to uh sewage people want to avoid it if they can if you put a one bedroom granny pod on wouldn't you be under the 500 You' be so that's not going to be a limiting well but I mean I mean that's just number that's a number but there will be capacity added you know what I mean there will be capacity added you're right and and and I I don't what I'm trying to say is not that capacity doesn't matter but that it is not at least that capacity is not an overarching issue but it is because not they're going to be allowed to add capacity but we don't have more capacity if there's not because it's under the 500 we don't as a town have the capacity to them but they' be able to get in underneath the regul right that's true but they are allowing right right now that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that the town doesn't choose to change get get any Tighter and they'll it's not changed yet yeah it would be DPW in consultation with the select board if the state were to approve it while the town right now would allow every single family to increase no more than 500 that doesn't mean that the town has to you know continue that and let's particularly for for detached for a detached ad I don't I don't want to get lost on this particular small Point uh my more General point is what the heck are we doing to at least at some point in the future increase housing Avail town and just right on two here he is got from the Knicks there he is yeah and I'm I'm more interested in the debate than I am in the actual answer here but I think we need we need to talk about it tell me why this isn't just more nimi I'd be glad to okay um fire away again I'm not saying that we can never build another unit of housing in town what I'm trying to do is be realistic and say if you listened recently to what the school superintendent Administration presented excuse me and rollman when he made the presentation for the feasibility study at town meeting the chumford schools the the population of school age children it the trend line is going up over time that's already before all this development comes in it's going to take several years if the voters approve it to build a park or school that's being done to relieve overcrowding situations at the elementary school that we're currently dealing with and they're coming down the pike so we know that our school a we've already gone through a period where the number of school age children has been declining for several years now the bubble's going back up you cannot easily reopen Westland school because it's such an older school it will require massive Renovations it's being used as a community head Center so I guess my thought is you know if you're going to ask voters to approve a new Parker School what's going to be the Encore if the if the school age population suddenly goes up you have to do something so if you're asking voters to spend over 200 million possibly for a school what's going to be the Encore do you build another elementary school after that I think that would be a tough sell um I mean I I support building Public Schools but I'm just saying I'm trying to be realistic yeah then we listen to our public Works director tell us how the source system is at capacity and that really they're doing mitigation efforts to try to reduce inflow and infiltration but realistically if you do some large scale development you're not going to be able to reduce it that much you can reduce it somewhat so the only option really for larger scale development is septic uh at the moment so I mean I think we have to be realistic with the state I did see an article in the paper recently saying that the they asked the MW to do a study to see if chumford and a whole other bunch of towns it was curiously the carile was emitted and some others should we be considered to have um MW water supply but not s extended to this area so I think you have to be honest with people and say if you do that if we ever do connect up to MW water I'm sure the water districts will have something to say about that the other thing is if you if you're gonna if you're GNA and the public works department is doing a study right now just to see what are the costs how long would it take if we ever connect to the mwa for us sewer it'll take system Years it'll take years and so I'm just trying to be realistic and say to the state we hear your problem but this isn't like this is a country Town anymore it's pretty much built out and our infrastructure and our systems are taxed you know not a money tax but they pretty much being used almost to the the exact limit so what would we do if we encourage um this development so I I don't know that I CL and the other thing is I wanted to point out in the end that um we already have an a limited accessory apartment bylaw on the books and it seems to be working well and to me this is not a case of nimi because to me these are just examples of why this is just overall bad legislation um there's some aspects of that too I don't disagree entirely these are just examples of how it's going to impact our town but there are going to be examples everywhere of how poorly this is going to impact other areas because it's a poorly written legislation so let me put the question to you we're becoming a town in which a substantial number of the people that live here now couldn't afford to buy in if they had to come in yeah and which is pricing itself away from our policemen our firemen and our teachers what do you propose to address that what do you propose to address that because if we're not proposing something to address those problems we're just more affordable housing not more housing more affordable housing right you're absolutely correct the problem is what are we doing the Adu legislation and the MBTA legislation are capping the affordable housing 10% that's the problem right it should be none of these legislations are addressing the actual problem of affordable housing and where where are we pushing cinet does it's not allowing us to go higher it's not saying you can I don't think it has any affordability mention has no affordability aspect to it at all as far as I can tell Anita wants to she's driving in now give me a plan show me show me the a vision okay can you hear me yeah yeah we can hear you now okay I want to just address Mike's whole comment about what to do because people are out priced out of our town well first of all Chumps is one of the most affordable towns in the Commonwealth quite frankly SEC that's still commutable to 128 in Boston second you want to address these Rising house prices it's not building more houses in the Boston 128 up to 495 on Route three answer it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now what you need to do and the State needs to do and our legislators need to do is incentivize corporations to move west and North plenty of housing in the Worcester area we've got good schools out there you had manufacturing leag Western Massachusetts because towns that are you know people living in poverty that's what they need to do not incentivize more housing closer to Boston we don't have the infrastructure for people to get to work because the businesses are still on 128 and in downtown Boston and we don't have the infrastructure furthermore the reason why this a su building the people who are interested in this and who are pushing this don't kid yourself it's private Equity that's why it's written this way and I've heard it from multiple people at the State House that private Equity is behind this push as lenient as this is with it not being tied to owner occupied this is just bad legislation all around yeah their towns with the private there's so much private Equity their um Resort towns are now trying to put up legisl legislation so people these private Equity FMS can't come in start buying up all like the beach houses and and doing a orb and Bs and I think it was in the news I think n tuckets looking at it I know York Main's looking at it I mean there's a lot of this trend of all businesses coming out buying up these houses that's why these houses are priced the way they are sorry thank you okay well I hear what you say so I agree with a lot of it but I still ask the question what are we doing so my response to that is we discussed this going through the MBTA zoning we found areas in town that we want to do an overlay in am I correct in our punch list right and we are moving forward on that we've been TI up a little bit with this and the kicker is the MBTA uh zoning bylaw has zero to do with affordability it's all about housing units that's all they want is housing units they're assuming supply and demand eventually which we can catch up but they're same with 200,000 units short so that's going to take a long time you know what I mean yeah so we do we do have to be proactive and we have to move on other areas that's that's what I'm trying to encourage like the Radison bille that would have been great you I mean I I think another thing I would like to say and maybe it doesn't doesn't speak to what you're the issue you're raising at all but I don't think it's a I'd like to more strongly emphasize the owner occupancy as as at least a movement that we could point to towards it could make it better it would make it better more that is I agree that's a tangible maybe we just focus on that yeah well I also would like to say something about you know and this is nimish but the character of the town like if every you know if all the single family homes are are taken down and you know a lot of freestanding micro homes or whatever they are get built it will dramat by De especially if it happens by developers it will dramatically change the character of the town is the classic excuse for but then let's address that that fact that it's going to elate single family zoning mhm right well put a mighty big dent in it so let's address that instead of because that's going to do the same in any town so we might as well just get rid of single family housing yeah so essentially that's what this is but there people I mean there are other things you could do but nobody wants to do them but Mike there's a reason people move to chumford I know reason I move but yeah but you're talking about the reason you originally moved here to give it it up yeah right if I want it might come to that what I'm challenging this group to do is actually address the broader housing problem we are built out doding some other Town some other Town that's not buil Boston go 20 stories high I don't want to do it I agree with you I think we should address put more in here I think we got to be proactive about building for the future have to beactive and educating the the town meeting reps and have them behind us okay instead of against which they were it was great having them behind us on this past one but I think the Adu is the worst legis legis legislation that you can do oh I bad legislation in my town that's going to wreck this town it's going to wreck a lot of towns may may I make a suggestion similar to the the MBTA discussion where the board articulated that um it was even asked a town meeting I think someone asked well what is the board's plan for housing and the board articulated uh that you to go back look at the overlays you mentioned Alpine Lane as an example so it's not it's not as if the planning board um doesn't have a plan or a vision to Pro to look at and explore and provide new housing opportunities you just as you articulated with MBTA you don't think this is the right fit and strategy for chelsford yeah so it may be worthwhile to rearticulate that yeah in this letter because you know for all we we know the state the state was compelled to pursue MBTA and Adu uh zoning because they they've convinced themselves that if towns are left to their own devices they're not going to pursue and yet the CH planning board has clearly articulated that you do in that the chelster planning board has talked about stuff I haven't seen us do okay I would like to argue that in the last 15 years we have built how many multif family West Campus west campus there's housing and we've zoned we've actually you know pered or built how many affordable units how many mul family units we have our share and and you know if we say I mean I saw that stuff that you sent me I I didn't have I I couldn't really pull out the numbers I'm looking for out of we've produced about about 750 new housing units Each decade for the last couple decades okay we get a breakout on that of how many percentage how many of them are M family how many of them are affordable how many of them are age restricted that we're doing our work yeah you can you can mention that they likely know what chumford has done because they they have metrics and clearly they don't believe that every town has done enough or every town will continue to do enough so their statutes are forward thinking and I think that's where the planning board has Al already indicated that you intend to to continue to be Forward Thinking go into the existing overlays maybe refine them be a bit more strategic right uh for for predictable outcomes based upon local housing needs um but I think that's probably a message that the state would find more you know more useful but even if they agree with that statement that we're doing enough that's not going to change anything because they still feel that many other towns are not totally agree totally agree but I I in the AG I mean you guys need to decide whether you know whether this is going to be ch specific or if it's going to take on kind of uh you know we understand the issue where here's our strategy we agree with you but but we're going to we want we prefer to customize our housing strategy we we've already done X and we continue we plan to continue with why right I I think the challenge for the state at this point is they don't have enough they don't have a mechanism or a process where they clearly have commitments from towns that are going to proactively incredibly look at providing housing opportunities can we articulate that we will be doing that in the I think that's worth we need to articulate it we need to you know what I mean John like put a passage during the MBTA process we were enlightened into already enlightened I wouldn't give credit to the m he bring no but what I'm saying it brought I was trying to come up with the right word let's blow let's blow our own horn you know what I'm saying yeah I mean if if people want to send it to me or send it to deardra that's I me Madam chair to add to what you were just saying is if you look at the data that's in for example that we publish in the budget book since the last federal census I don't have the exact number memorized but we added about 7500 or 8,000 residents if my memory is correct with all of the multif family units that were added on over the last several years built that people see so I so for someone to say that we're not building enough I think mischaracterizes it and my other question to that is if we've built 7500 units 8,000 units when is it ever enough and when's the right number if we're still have a housing shortage if we built seven say say it's 7,000 let's be on the conservative side we build 7,000 units the town's all built out there is a shortage of single family homes or multif family units how does that it's it's almost like a dog chasing its tail when do we get to the right number and do we stop when Chumps becomes like looks like Medford or sumerville is that because that almost seems like what someone on Beacon Hill has planned for this area I don't disagree with that but that message is going to fall in dead airs with the state any message we send is going to fall on it'll be a different letter though it'll be different that is not going to compel with them because they could say they could say you can you can you can provide for your your for 1500 MBTA zoning units and do it in a very uh Community character aesthetic appropriate way if you wanted to so they're not they're well beyond the notion that development not when they take away when they do it by right say if communities embraced embraced the notion yeah and and embraced we will do it but we'll do it on our terms in a credible manner but they know the state knows that more towns are not going to pursue that Chum's done done a little bit of both more than most yeah but that's why anything we write in this letter isn't going to matter are we really above average from now unless it says they give a law out there then they WR at the bottom except for if you were if you were looking to tip the scales you would do what the selectboard did you would send a letter and send somebody in person to try to engage I think that that opportunity may may have ended for adus I don't I don't know yeah but you're right I I I I'm not sure the an an individual letter is gonna gonna move the needle as far as the state's concerned well I mean if it helps with Rodney or Jim Oro yeah Y and has anybody has anybody talked to them and asked them individually ask actually what they think on this I have they may have some they may have some ideas hey what what have they said Anita I mean I've talked to S Calo multiple times on this um and he's given me quite a bit of insight he um you know as a I won't say that he's committed one way or the other but he has provided me with a lot of insight and I continue to talk to him about this okay um I think next time when people go to the ballots and vote they need to consider the stuff if they're not happy with these types of legislations they need to show that at the ballot absolutely I mean I think that's the answer right like you need to make sure you're telling them this because again this is you know Beacon Hill is telling us how our town needs to be across the board and there are certain towns like Lincoln um conquered who have plenty of land and a 900 you know square foot Adu isn't you know that doesn't impact their town they still have the space but towns like ours that we have you know people on a quarter acre lot or a half acre lot and adding another dwelling that does make us look like Somerville in Medford the the pie that I think the statute references is the towns can adopt reasonable regulation yeah wait if we just used our C our current regulations no no no my point is like to to Anita's point it's reasonable regulation is not clearly defined yet right right but if we just use our current regulations that wouldn't be considered reasonable but adding at what at what point does a lot become so small that adding a second detached dwelling unit is unreasonable that that's the piece of the gray area within the statute any okay so this this notion that all 9,000 single family housing lots in chumford are are reasonable to add a second yeah it's crazy that the law doesn't say that the law says towns can adopt reasonable regulation and as we all know that's going to be far ranging towns will do we need to get on that that needs to be the to right this this is by right yeah but your regulations your your reasonable regulations May prohibit certain certain situations from even from even pursuing the opport yeah but reasonable is defined by the state we've already seen what that they haven't defined it yet right yeah yeah right but but to we need's point in a community like Chum where Lots some neighborhoods are 7,500 square feet that may not be that may be deemed unreasonable to put a detach structure I don't well from our perspective yes but maybe not from the state's perspective we don't know they haven't told us to be determined right we put the regulation in place and then if people want to develop lot wouldn't there be a lot ofes going on like in the end no different than MBTA zoning all going to be litigated like a lot but that probably should be at the top of our bucket list yeah yeah should reasonable regulations in place that should be there and and and we really need to consider affordability stuff in line with what I often say is make sure the teachers the policemen and the this is a production statute nothing to do with affility deed restricted affordability exactly the question is how how much would it change the the values and I'm not sure that it would it would produce a a new type of housing that the market isn't building yeah I think the Adu is 900 square feet by definition it has and it has to be owner occupied because you've got businesses private Equity that is just waiting to come in and buy this all up and if it's not owner occupied this will not help any housing I mean that's probably the most effective yeah AR against it but is but is chumford going to be able to put in that restriction no think a letter to our community said we don't like tell me that this is because it's helping the housing crisis this is there's big money behind this because if it if it was supposed to help the housing crisis they would have put in owner occupied and this will not this will be big money coming and buying it all up and we'll be in the same problem that may end up being the political compromise I it might be the best we can accomplish but we'd have to like everyone has to be working towards that and you know and let let's be honest owner occupied sounds like a wonderful concept and I kind of like it but all right you have something it's owner occupied you build a granny pot on it separate granny pod you're still okay now the person in the big house wants to sell the property what happens do you throw the person out of the granny house no the new person has to live there no you I don't think you can do that I you you may be able they could live in either one they could throw them out and they can move into the little one and I think you're going to find that that owner occupied as good a concept as I think it is is going to have some problems with it because PE people will now you know they want to sell their property uh that means they can't sell it to anybody that isn't going to live there well maybe maybe that can be enforced maybe it can't you need to ask those questions that's a pretty strong limitation on uh transferability of real estate okay well then don't build it in the first place well that might be a good idea but you bring up an interesting point I mean it's got to be it's got to be asked and we need to get a legal read on it we have private homes right now that I mean at a certain point you have it taking and now we get to pay for it and I don't want us paying for it what's the difference on that Mike we right now have private homes that are not all owner occupied right we do so what's the difference of an Adu that's not own or occupied there's no difference than a single family home well a million dollar home that's being rented out right now until you wind up but it's still a single family situation single family no so now you're just going to have two two single family dwellings on on a what we would call a single family lot you're going to allow double occupancy yeah so what's the difference there's a big difference no there is a big difference but you can't have one be only occupied and the other one on a private residence doesn't have to be unoccupied right but you don't have two single family homes on a single lot you you have to subdivide no I know that so you have controls in place to prevent that focus on we not really focusing on the other are we also assuming that you know the the the ownership pretty much has to be the same for both units the ownership is the same for both units otherwise it would be a condo although well yeah there there are lots of little Corners around this stuff you need to be careful of them I just I wouldn't want to see us get into a situation where we we wind up having some enterprising developer who wants to use this law to the fullest to fill their pocket we do we always will trying to figure out some around come back and whack us over the head with a well we're trying to figure out the best way around that busy the next three years okay I think we have worked our way through this agenda I hope everybody's sufficiently uncomfortable yeah still have to hit that I will take a motion you have it that motion to adjourn I'll second that all in favor hi hi good thanks for coming down e e for