##VIDEO ID:heexkNCBNuA## e started um it being after 6:30 um I am going to wait for dearra a family situation that Wonder nice save that was a great save okay time just in time so it being 6:30 we'll call the working session of the planning board of September 11th to order just for the record our meetings are televised and um recorded and therefore available also later on films for Tel media on demand so first thing we have is our Matrix oh I'm so happy it's bigger I had a small one with a magnifying glass those who missed it there's also another side with some of the cells I didn't realize until today okay so we didn't make a lot of progress on this last time I think we left off at 2.6 slash 3.2 yeah so 2.6 3.2 the town should revise its zoning bylaw to accommodate popup stores e-commerce fulfillment centers and ghost kitchens and dark stores to address shifting markets for Brick and Mortar retail and Office Space by losing allowing these uses by right or by special permit in a manner that is not detrimental to the neighborhood as determined by the planning board um so this say not needed um is that my initial comment was complete failed that town meeting to be determined I mean does anyone have any thoughts about um whether we should make another crack at this and maybe modify it in a way that would make it more palatable and people think that these are um objectives that we should any of them that we should strive to um impr improve the access for um I don't think I know what some of these things are yeah well that was uh one of the things that came up at town meeting when we talked about it in fact uh just a definition a lot of it hinged on the definitions of these various uses ghost kitchen yeah ghost kitchen just exactly when people rent space in a kitchen in usually in a restaurant or else they have catering out of a kitchen and they deliver but they don't have a physical multitasking at the I know bis does something right there's a couple different kitchens that rent space from beri are are we having any problem with that and do we see the potential for any real problems with it and I think the answer is probably no and I don't think we will likely see a big influx anymore because things have shifted again from the Co period yeah when a lot of this stuff is not happening anymore deliveries and yeah yeah I I I would say we we let it percolate on the way back burner on a low heat and uh if if the opportunity comes up to open it up again we can do that we got bigger fish okay what's a pop do you have a thought on that you know I agree with the board there kind of like the the market never evolved quick get out okay um I think everyone in accord and Mike Walsh for the record is on Zoom um 2 one how you do and yourself great 2.7 determine whether the affordability requirement within the inclusionary housing B should be modified now that well that's null and void since we have not any longer achieved our 10% um but I mean I guess does the affordability requirement need to be looked at anyway and this is something that's permanently on the radar I think so in the inclusionary housing bylaw it has to the affordability requirement is it mirrors 40b yeah which is very high for inclusionary bylaws uhhuh Suburban communities it's it's uh 20 for ownership and 25 for rental okay so that you know that kind of served a purpose when we were aggressively trying to reach 10% primarily with um 104 Turnpike uh local approval um this will likely come up as part of the um the housing production plan um I think it's worth revisiting that no and Benchmark Chumps to other other comparable communities and do we know what the Benchmark what the other communities are yeah generally speaking Suburban communities are between you know 10 and 12 15% H okay um and is there any um mandate in terms of the Ami that can be customized but what is there there bylaw um requires 50% Ami 60 50 so it's on the lower in to provide truly affordable housing and what's standard in other community similar communities do you know um I mean it they it started at 80% yeah which isn't very affordable yeah so I I think most newer inclusionary bylaws are at 50% 50% okay I mean I would think that it might be worth looking at doing 20 and 20 I don't think i' want to go down to 12 or 15% cuz we need the units and we need the affordable housing I don't think we should change it at all okay because we ended up going below even with where it's at well I mean that projects don't get built we're not add at all because and and so they we don't get any affordable units because they don't build under the inclusionary byla this is why I suggest you take a look at it right if you're going to if you're going to revisit the overlays I would do it kind of in coordination yeah and then it it's directly tied to what the town's priorities are are you trying to encourage uh affordable housing are you trying to encourage any housing uh so I think that really ties directly back to the you know revisiting the overlays and what's the Strategic goals of those overlays if you're going to deemphasize housing production in a in a medium to large scale like a 40b then the numbers would should come down if you're promoting small scale Village style housing with low density you know then obviously the numbers would need to come down as well to accommodate the which is where I'm coming from I think that to the extent that we want housing I mean I think we want some housing yeah it it i' prefer recommendations really shouldn't be viewed in in isolation right it's it's it has a direct impact on the on the financial feasibility of the project and so again whatever you're trying to promote and incentivize the inclusionary should be um strategically aligned with that I was reading something in I was in Portland last week and I was reading something they had got into place uh how U requirement for affordability I think it was 25% several years ago and there's been zero development in whatever that zone was since no projects yeah I mean in and of itself it usually isn't a deal breaker but in combination with other regulations it can make projects uneconomical for high interest rates like we just don't have the infrastructure right now like it's not that I don't want housing like necessarily I want it strategic and I understand what you're saying Village but I don't even think we have the bandwidth or the infrastructure to any incremental you don't have the schools for it if the board determines that we don't want to promote housing anymore well then the inclusion area kind of begins to you reduce your you down Zone your housing opportunities right and at that point it makes the zoning makes it clear we're not we're not trying to promote or incentivize housing and then the inclusion area can be adjusted accordingly like I like to like because I mean even a new school it'll take another 10 years before a school goes live like I like for the short term you know maybe we decentivize the housing um I mean we've done our part like for building out jumps for you know I got to see some these other towns you know come up to the plate and do what we've done yeah okay um so we'll say uh let's call that uh ongoing the housing the planning board should review the goals and objectives of overlay districts and inclusionary yeah this this I think we need to do and um you know maybe we should pick one of the um inclusionary zones and and go over the I mean and we haven't done it this ISS every two years when was it last done Evan um by the board it's been a number of years well beyond two years the master plan presumably reviewed this and recommended you know Trends continued but the board itself hasn't yeah hasn't done a deep dive or revisit revisitation so let's put this on our list of things to did we start a SE OD discussion I'm sorry I thought we started a sead disc discussion and then didn't that did that get table on the inclusionary housing zoning bylaw no just on the seid on the seid yeah I think we began earlier this year we began it but it was very very preliminary okay it was actually last year last year in September yes okay right there's a year yes um I do think the co also up GL um needs to we need to Circle back around to that so maybe we should put this on for this in in conjunction with the co into um a work session sometime in the fall um continue to implement the adoped procedures and processes for expedit permitting to ensure that permitting decisions for industrial commercial and mixed use applications are acted on within the state's 180 day guidelines update the Chelmsford business imp permitting guide as needed in accordance with the new Industries being created as a result of covid do we have a problem here no I think that second sentence can probably be deleted yeah yeah I I guess that's we should continue to implement the adoptive procedures so that's ongoing require bike racks and sidewalks for new commercial and Industrial Development projects were appropriate I feel like that's something we've been we've essentially attending to yeah I I I don't think we're missing the boat there so I'd say that's ongoing and it's in our plan reviews as this States um we we have the bpack if bpack decides that we have an issue they can certainly tap us on the shoulder and we can look at it I think that's the same case for all of those 4. 16s mhm required developers to provide sidewalks and amenities lighting bicycle parking benches encourage traffic calming I feel like we do all this provide bicycle and pedestrial accommodations on new and reconstructed local roads well that's not really I mean we do I guess striping basically more than anything else require bike lanes and shared use passs I mean I don't think this is necessarily planning board business some of it well I mean you're doing it all as as needed and as appropriate yeah limiting curb Cuts requiring Landscaping PL sorry [Music] um update the parking requirements within the town zoning bylaw to be consistent with current industry standards I think that's something that we should put on an on our agenda as a workshop item in the near-term instead of the long term I mean I don't know that I always think about adjacent internal bike and pedestrian site circulation and connectivity but I guess I should we should try more I'm trying to think of where that has we didn't really talk about it with Meeting House Road and that would have been a one that it might have been appropriate to implement connectivity with we don't have a lot of bike Lanes in town no this is internal I was looking at uh 16.8 the last one was it I I recall having uh actually from one of the master plan meetings having had uh uh the DPW in there which kind of maintains a lot of plans for what they're doing with sidewalks and this and that and it apparently is on their radar to some degree um it's it's kind of an opportunistic thing if you have an opportunity to increase connectivity you try to do it and I think we're actually addressing it where that comes up I don't think we've missed a lot of opportunities that have presented themselves oh the meeting house might be an example I mean also I feel like the um the parking the town parking lot in the center didn't have much consideration of those issues when we approve that yeah but you know we discussed how cars were going to be turning in there with the pedestrians and how we were concern yeah I we talk we we tou not really a plan in place that addresses those issues no but we were touching on it on that site TN review increase the developer contribution requirements didn't we do that you did do that John hi yeah what's our what's our 53g standard now 200 Vehicles it used to be what 100 or something and then you adopted a new truck yeah um payment yeah that's we discussed that when we discuss that thing up y up by uh Market Basket Bross from Market Basket um okay continue the implementation of the seid zoning bylaw The Village Center Village zoning overlay And1 129 B aod bylaw and inclusionary housing bylaw isn't this a duplicate we kind of covered a lot of it up above yeah it's yeah I mean continued implementation I don't see the continue implementation things I need think no it's it's implemented well are to implement them I mean I guess yeah what we do for a living the applicant brings it yeah the town subdivision regulations should be modified to allow and encourage the use of low impact development that already happened by the bringing us up to the mass standards correct yeah I the low impact development so that's we cross that off yes that's the thing that Christina right brought to town meeting [Applause] okay uh related that's all done much it huh that's it that's it okay well the master plan implementation committee thank you I'll update this recirculate it back to the board and then um uh proceed with scheduling a master plan implement ation committee um several members uh should attend you can kind of engage on behalf of the planning board with the committee if they have any questions but I I'll let you know what the when the date is okay all right so it's not yet 7:00 so we will not yet start public input should we maybe um look at the minutes move to accept [Applause] um anyone have any thing on the minutes uh do we have a second second all in favor I I I and Mike is an I on the zoom call so it's unanimous um our next meeting date is September 25th and October 9th um what about anyone want to anyone have any Le on updates yes so I attended um the zoning board of appeals meeting on um September 5th and um there were a lot of uh number of uh people in attendance the the most um the most uh actively talked about topic was um a a um 40b development proposed on Maro AV it's called um Cobblestone place um it proposes to um construct five rental units and it's a just over an acre site so um you know the proponents um discussed their their vision for the project um a number of Butters were also in attendance and discussed their concerns and that was really uh the majority of the meeting was spent on that so that was a Hot Topic so [Music] um it's rental so one would be affordable but all five would count towards they said all five because it's rentals all five would count towards the U housing inventory okay um anyone else I attended the Board of Health oh good meeting that was Monday and um they some some big changes potentially are coming they're they're considering going onto going onto Zoom live stream and that be great so uh but they're still you know considering that they have to change their day right yes they would have to change their day uh and so that's one of the things they were discussing and then uh well that's interesting why would they have to change their day is that conflict with something else have to move here yeah I believe it does okay it yeah so they they they may end up either on a I think it was either a Wednesday or Thursday I think it was not W first or third Eric can't Doo yeah there was there was some debates about who could make what that's for that's what they still need to resolve and the other thing too is they moved their public input into the beginning of their meeting it used to be at the end um and then also uh a couple of different things that they were handling as far as input and output correspondents they their output correspondence they did uh notify the um land owner at ten hildr of the P findings uh so that he would take appropriate action according to the m CP and so that starts a clock for him having to respond within a certain duration yeah and then also uh there were two things that they voted on their open hearing and their the meeting before this past meeting um for the applicant to provide and those are still outstanding and so once those are known when they can be made available then they'll post a meeting to have another hearing what were the two things um one of them I think had to do with the fact that the their peer review for the um phase one review was that U there was additional information that was being requested and I think in particular he was looking to have them identify where some of these different areas potentially are um that could have contaminants I don't know I don't know I don't know what all of the details are um but uh but I know that's one of the considerations and I think I don't remember what the other one was um because that was too too but well actually uh John was there and Chris was there so maybe you guys remember but was there at the hearing I thought you were there anyway I wanted to be but I couldn't make it okay yeah uh so yeah so they're they're it short it was short this week cuz I came from another meeting 45 minutes yeah it was 4 45 minutes yeah I'm just anticipating what this will look like on on uh live stream when the when they're just turning Pages well maybe I mean yeah I don't know yeah anyway but there was a I think also too it's worth mentioning that um I think it's fair to say that that uh Richard day who is the chair uh again was expressing his General concern about the fact that uh because of the sewer liit that applicants increasingly are looking at options of septic and since the original intent of going on sewer was to prevent that from happening for the purpose of water quality um he he certainly expressed significant concerns about the fact that that's potentially what's going to be happening now is that more and more there'll be more and more septic in the town and is that going to create issues with regards to water quality so I thought that was an interesting uh thing and in anticipating the public input at the end I didn't have a chance actually to provide public input but one of the things I was going to ask them was in the case of in the cases where for example you're concerned about potential you know proximity to uh water quality Source Wells and things like that you know is there a way in which the town could provide some waiver or something like that to allow people to be on sewer in those cases for the purpose of Public Health so uh I didn't get a chance to raise that question so I may raise that question at the next meeting next time yeah that's once follow up to jeles the DPW um uh Wastewater restriction regulation does have that provision okay that the Board of Health would have to uh vote and deem it a uh Public Health crisis or emergency or threat and then the DPW could consider granting a waiver to allow the connection okay is the is uh Donna aware of that do you um I don't know um as part of the moros 40b um we're having an internal meeting um to review all of these so that everyone has a better understanding so that meeting is on Friday so she will be aware if she's not already okay okay I'll I'll check so that by the next meeting if if if she hasn't heard then I'll mention it to the board in that way they can be aware to look into it and see what see what possible actions they can take in those cases has there been any action whatsoever on the overall sewer situation and I don't mean local action really I mean State action I've heard nothing not State uh Christine clany gave an update uh this past Monday at the board okay um that happens fairly routinely there's a variety of action items going on um at at the long-term um effort is to begin looking into MW connection um and I think there's $30,000 allocated to do a high level study of that uh but immediately and short term uh the board knows the town has through DPW has the the inii program and uh Christine Clancy mentioned Monday that uh every week they find um uh manholes in town when they pop the lid they look to see what what level of inflow there is and just last week they found uh four and they were averaging between 3 to eight gallons per minute and so they go in and seal them up and then they catalog all this and apparently the state allows the towns to take 50% credit not 100% credit so as you can see incrementally as the town goes in and revisits its um systems it's incrementally systematically uh plugging up you know inii and those that that gallon gallon saved is then um cataloged for available capacity so the the last couple of years we've through the planning board we've averaged I think it's about 18 to 20,000 gallons of new new capacity in the ini program has kind of kept pace with that so you know if Trends continue and you know there isn't any significant major changes to zoning or market market demand recent historical Trends we should be okay all right H now you got to think that that's really where the biggest bang for the buck is cutting the cutting the flaw well big bang for the buck for yeah I mean it we can we can try to get the state to do something that's probably impossible at this point well even the MW which yeah you know maybe within the town's control would be very very expensive right and then there's still you know as part of the Strategic plan uh which meeting is next reminder next Wednesday at um 5:30 6 p.m. it starts at the Elks um the town still needs to have a high level discussion as to you know how much more and and if so of what mhm Evan related to the Strategic plan um the Conservation Commission met yesterday and in addition to the individual responses that he encouraged people to to give to that they also suggested maybe a board response um interesting and they encouraged from a from your own individual perspective feel free to submit um to the questionnaire but they also said that if if board members want to submit to the chair the chair can compile it and I guess um the concom chair will be interviewed by the Strategic plan group and so he was going to give that summary to the uh to the group so just as a reminder each of you should have received an email from from Tom manager uh you're invited to do individual uh interviews or group interviews if you wanted to um um as far as a group uh providing input to strategic plan that would be great I don't know to what extent you'd be able to do that because you haven't had a group discussion um but whether you do it individually or as a group I it's critically important for planning board to engage in the Strategic plan can I make a recommendation that we all submit individually from our own perspective and then send I mean I be willing to compile it yeah it's probably going to be commonalities yeah um compile it for everyone from a planning board perspective from a full board perspective I can compile it and then we can submit it as a board yeah that that would be a great help to the committee I can tell you that yeah if there's any if there's any disagreement we can bring it up at a meeting and discuss it briefly um yeah to get a little bit more of a consensus but I think that there'll be enough commonalities to put a position forward as consensus isn't particularly important for this data but if we have the individual opinions and then the consensus from the board it might be a good good perspective all right it being 7 o' after 7 o'clock actually um I'm going to call the regular meeting to order of the planning board for September 11th um again all these meetings are televised and available on demand um and recorded um and if the recording should go down we will do our best but we will not suspend the meeting um next up we have public input session um anyone who wants to speak on a matter that's not currently the subject of a pending public hearing is welcome to come to the um Podium and introduce yourself by with your name and address and speak about matters that do pertain and are under our jurisdiction nobody on Zoom no one on Zoom seeing no one um next up we have administrative review of 40 Grand View Road request for certificate of lot release I believe uh Mr Chris Selter is on Zoom with us yes I am hi hello hi you want to make a presentation short presentation to us well uh yes we um this property was currently sold and as a condition of the uh the sale going through the uh current owners left a substantial amount of money in escro with the closing attorney uh one of the items that we need to clear up was uh to have a uh forg certificate of release uh approved and signed by the board so we can have that recorded I think I when I submitted the um the form G to the planning board I also included a copy of the form e Covenant that's on that's it uh that was on record unfortunately we don't know much about this this uh uh Nancy finnean was a was a a previous owner of the property that sold um sold the property to the people who just sold it uh but they bought it back in 2006 so this uh for me Covenant has been on record for over 30 years and uh we're not quite sure what to do with other than to have it uh released so that's a really good summary um dates back to uh 1993 obviously the this definitive subdivision files completely closed out as far as the town is concerned um um Chris remind me which which lot is um 40 Grand View uh it it was not it was uh one second was it it was a lot number one number on a on a plan although certain uh there had been certain additions uh to that lot over the years but on the the original deed it was listed as Lot number one okay so this you've you've you've seen these before it's fairly routine there's nothing really for the uh board to do other than as as the attorneys indicating in order for uh closing attorneys to sign off on the closing rightfully so they want the the title to be cleaned of this of this Covenant what is interesting about 40 Grand View is that while it was shown on the definitive subdivision plan it doesn't actually have any Frontage or access from Birchwood but for some reason was shown likely as a lot to be created via the definitive subdivision uh so I brought that to the attention of the attorneys saying that you know it may not even have been part of the Covenant um but they you know for purposes of uh belts and suspenders they are requesting that the board vote to release lot one which is 40 Grand View and is there any as you see a downside of of us releasing it no no like like I said I mean the project um it's a beautiful house has been you know the Project's closed there's town does not have any any outstanding issues um if the board chooses uh to vote to release I will need either the chair or vice chair to come into town hall within the next couple of days this needs to be notorized uh in person I could do that Friday okay um so looking for uh a vote from the board to release I think it's lot one 40 Grand View uh from the uh Covenant I'll take a motion I will move well you go ahead you I move to release uh 40 Grand View which is lot one um from the uh Covenant I will second all in favor I so Chris I can you the chair is likely going to coming on Friday so that can be ready for pickup uh on Friday okay okay um that we perfect thank you very much just for the record Mike you also um were in accordance with that Mike Walsh uh yes okay thank you so it was unanimous all right thank you thank you uh next up we have 300 Bill r Road seeking seid applicability um for beehive while they're uh setting up this uh just for clarity that's route 129c applicability yeah you can move it anywhere you want thank you thank you thank you thank you hi uh my name is uh David Ferris uh I'm the CEO with beehive and I'm here tonight um with my colleague uh the director of operations ariela thoron and two of my colleagues from our affiliate company George Bannon and um Brian charville and I wanted to start tonight's meeting by thanking um both Paul and Evan for their uh helpful meeting with our entire team uh over the summer um we had several meetings with them and they were really helpful ahead of this meeting and we wanted to just come in tonight and give you a quick introduction Madam chair of who we are and where we're from and uh a little background about the project and the historical um property of 300 um 300 Bill rle Road uh that historically started out I think was initially built for Apollo computer back in the day a flex uh building that eventually became a single tenant office building conversion uh in which Kronos was The Last Tenant to occupy I think they left in around 2016 the property seen a precipitous um drop in value from 2023 I think its sucess value was roughly uh $12 million it's now about six we purchase the asset from RMR that owns the neighboring property um which um has the Press Cafe which everybody loves um and um and so we purchased it for about 4 .5 million it's 110,000 squ ft building um with 55,000 square foot foot plates um Footprints which attracted us from beehive and maybe I could just share with you a little bit about our concept and what beehive pros.com is all about uh what we're really doing is modernizing the trade industry and consolidating multiple trades in Plumbing Heating electric uh if you think of like 25 years ago before there was Home Depot you went to a lumber yard you went to a paint store like Sheron Williams or Benjamin Moore you went to your hardware store to get keys with beehive is really uh a central location for a lot of professional trades that both work directly for our company but are also small independent contractors from the local community that we can partner with when and if our um our our demand levels are high and so um what we really designed with this building is indoor contractor shops uh roughly 33 shops that range engine size from the small size about 300 Square ft to the large size would be about 4 or 5,000 square ft the first floor has shared amenities like conference rooms that some of these people may need to meet with their clients you know an independent HVAC company an independent Electrical Company uh to be able to meet with members of the community um and then on the second floor we're proposing 35 Workforce housing apartments to rent both to our employees and potentially uh tenants in the building and to people who are not necessarily tenants in the building but Workforce housing for local trades uh men and women who've gotten out of school um and looking for affordable uh places to live that may also work for our direct Enterprise uh beehive Pros we have a membership model it's very simple $100 a year $500 a year is our residential members and you get different discounts and benefits and free services annually with those memberships for residents we have a very strong uh commercial presence where we work with a lot of large uh companies where we perform preventative maintenance and other services those memberships are simple it's $1,000 a year but um it comes with certain um resp response times and wave fees Etc and um and really what we are is just a centralized model so uh people can have one relationship uh and one point of contact with a relationship representative Bey pros.com where they know they're getting the same professional level of service for various services in the community I think that um some of the benefits that um I think this may bring to the community beyond the affordable housing component is it really provides a Launchpad that's very affordable for people to locate their business so 33 in theory if we use one to two of those indoor contractor shops the rest would be available to third parties PR presumably partners that we would work with in some cases depending on reputation experience Etc but um it really provides those uh business is a place to centrally locate and the the thing that I think we will see in this particular location is um a migration from people who might be using their home or their garage as their shop and moving their van or their equipment to this location and taking a small affordable space um that they can uh work out of and and operate their business so we have things like a a centralized mail room centralized conference rooms uh centralized laundry and um places for forms to be uh cleaned Etc um this is our second location we have a location in Southboro that we uh started the concept with and the first floor uh was really focused around these uh contractor spaces and the second and third floor were really self- storage spaces and what we found was the contractor indoor spaces leased before we were open within days of listing them and we really found there's a really underserved segment of the market for this type of product for uh young contractors and businesses and what we also have found in the challenging economy where we have full employment right now it's very hard for us to add young professionals and particularly seasoned one with experience and so we think adding this housing component will allow a lot of men and women who will be assigned a vehicle um they're coming back to their effective place where they work but they also have a very lowcost housing um that uh would be directly above it this is really just a reutilization of a of an old tired single uh use Office asset which there's a lot of in the community and we think it's really a um pioneering way to reutilize um an existing asset and really take advantage of a lot of what Office Buildings have offices have uh in many cases uh too wide a footprint for housing so what we've done is thoughtfully designed the residential component to have uh common area spaces where people can meet and uh uh in the evenings after work and um those would be in the core of the building which otherwise would be too deep for residential housing and then putting apartments and the way we looked at this was 35 apartments there'd be 31 bedrooms um in five two bedrooms we've thought about and we haven't looked at the total legal implications of age restricting it to sort of over 18 or over 21 depending on what the um what what what would be appropriate but um effectively it breaks down to nine affordable units based under your uh zoning code so with that I'd like to open it up maybe for questions you said you have a facility in south how long have you been in business uh we just started uh we opened in uh January how long has your company been in business in January of this year yes yep so you behive has been since January of this year correct yep okay and uh we're growing at 67% a month since January we started with $318 of Revenue in January so if you compound that at 67% it grows very very quickly yeah and you're an LLC correct yes so your your Southboro facility has storage the workspace and residential uh it does not have the residential component yeah an adjunctive feature and who are your investors cuz obviously this is going to be a lot of capital yeah we're self-funded uh I should I'm sorry I should introduce myself I'm David Ferris who um owns several other businesses and um the most recent one that we divested was a billion dollar investment RA in South bro we served 150 Ultra highet worth families um in Boston York palalo London and sold it to the largest um independent planning company in the country um created planning and um so this is a a self fund funded singular owned Enterprise it's funded by us and um and we think that um Bas I you know we own several different businesses and I would tell this board I have never been affiliated with a company that's growing this quickly in terms of the demand for the services that were and the problems we're solving for the communities that we in so it's it's it's frankly the most exciting one I've been involved with I'm sorry what was the business of the billion dollar Enterprise that you were it was a investment firm so we were you know a family office that managed wealth for a lot of high net worth families in Massachusetts we about half of our practice and then elsewhere around the country got it y do you have any data that supports the attachment of the residential with the shops we don't this is really our first location with the um with the apartments but we just know from our sort of 30 Tradesmen that we have now working with us how hard it is for them to finded affordable apartments and communities and um we think with our basis being as low as it is um which you know this this asset was bought for about $45 a foot you know somewhere around there um we can we can still make it a very good returning investment even with the large affordability component you guys just discussed before the meeting started yeah so what affordability would you be proposing for this well these would be rental units not sale and um it would be what your statute uh calls for 50% any am yeah yeah so they would all be affordable uh they wouldn't there'd be a percentage nine nine mathematically would need to be D restricted affordable if it's a rental project then all 35 would count right yeah but the the real idea behind this is um to really build Workforce housing I mean we there's not I I don't think there'll be a lot of people that want be necessarily above an electrical HVAC store other than guys who were sort of recently in the trades that you know all work and live together and you know get along and um so we've tried to build some amenities into the second floor that would make it a really cool space to live in and you know begin your career what about the um rest of the property what do you have planned for amenities outside yeah we haven't really planned a lot of amenities Outdoors uh at this point um pool no no no nothing like that only yeah we're trying to yeah we we would do something like that but we're trying to minimize any ground disturbance given the issues with the properties across the street yeah so you're not thinking about tearing down ex yeah the big changes to the building and we we we we we um we're hoping to get in to see you a couple weeks earlier but we we just went in there and sort of cleaned up some of the Shrubbery and just painted the building our colors but we had pulled the building permit months ago to do the interior demo just to get it ready um but the big differences you would see with the building is it'll look and feel a a little bit more industrial than an office and um it would it would mimic something that you would see in our Southboro location and I'd welcome anybody to go by I will say this I'm very proud of that location it's very clean um it's very well-kept and um ironically you know if I sit in a bar anywhere in that general area meet someone and they ask what I do I could tell them about the ferris C Capital business you know and they' never have any idea and and and I'd mention beehive say oh that's that beautiful new facility in sellpro so it really came out nice I think relative to the feedback we get you know and we have some Renditions ariela you could maybe bring up the boards and oh yeah so this is this is kind of a proposal of what the uh building would change in terms of look except um you know we the color scheme is pretty pretty pretty close to our existing facility in s and um this is kind of a layout U and this shows you our sellpro location now and this was again another pretty tired vacant office building that was um I don't know vacant for 9 to 10 years and it was sort of 55,000 Square ft and what we found is all these um indoor contractor shops on the first floor they leased before we even opened and we're already 50% leas with the remainder but what we're finding is a lot of the tenants in the second and third third floor are take they're they're like cleaning facilities or cleaning companies or small businesses that so what what we offer Beyond just the common area spaces is we offer um Direct Delivery uh for products so a lot of these businesses that need to inventory their their their their extra product their cleaning supplies a lot of cleaning companies have a direct ship will pallet deliver it to their unit and for the cost of like a storage facility price with a delivery fee there's still saving a tremendous amount of money and then it has all very like this facility has very high powered um WiFi so you know someone can go in there and they're not sort of Tethered to setting up their own ISP and all their you know data connections and whatnot and what we've done in the design with this uh realization for this first floor is we've set it up so some of these shops would have already the existing reuse of the office space so we demoed most of the space and you're all welcome to go there we could email you the code to the building anytime if you want to walk in and tour it um but we kept a lot of the offices that could be reused in each trade shop and the business model is they actually would be part of your company's Workforce is that it uh I would say some I I wouldn't want to overstate or overpromise that but some would definitely be the case so our goal with this location would be to cover sort of Southern New Hampshire Northern Mass so we have facilities maintenance is that exactly like so so if you go to our website you'll see our pricing model and how we offer services but it's very transparent most services are either at if you're not a member $85 an hour if you're a member it's or for for a lot of services like residential electrical carpentry if you're a member um and you're sort of a $500 a year member you don't pay any visit fee so a lot of members who sign up for us that are going to use us multiple times a year they might use us for various Services uh carpentry fixing I mean what's incredible is having only been open in the first location for 9 months the level and the amount of different orders we get every day and we we have I should I should have said we have a very robust back office technology component that overlays this entire concept and it it's it's an app on your phone so you could wake up in the morning and see a shutter that you don't like you could take a picture you can send what you think your estimated budget is and before the end of the day someone on our staff will come back and say we'll send a an associate out to take care of it it's going to be a carpentry rate it'll be 1 hour and since you're a premium member you'll just pay the $76 rate which is the discounted rate um so it's really designed to have um reoccurring business rather than you know trying to find that plumber that's not going to charge you $250 to just come out and give an assessment so if you become a $99 a year member you pay $99 for your initial visit then you pay the hourly rate if you pay the 500 a year you just pay the hourly rate so for example a plumber on our discounted rate is 135 an hour so a lot of the times we find that depending on what the call is we might send out a handyman to take care of a a problem for a customer because it's going to be a lower rate than uh a trade um but that's that's kind of the concept and the interesting thing from a um business or Economic Opportunity for the community is what we're seeing is some of the larger corporations are coming to us because we can solve multiple problems for them and they can have one centralized relationship with a senior person that is accountable to the services they're providing so you know um I I won't say the company but you know this today we signed up a $55,000 annual PM contract for two buildings which just means we'll handle all their HVAC maintenance for just their rooftop the the last two weeks we're on their same roof repairing their units we did a 40 $47,000 in repairs uh so we're doing everything from very small jobs to very large jobs but we're clearly going to need a lot more people as we scale the business and and and I really think um the housing component to this really is the secret sauce in terms of attracting good people and helping them feel like they have a home and they have a company that cares about them and they really you know we're leaving here and we're going directly to red the Red Sox game where all the other employees are right now and um sorry no no it's good so that addressed the uh consumer but what about the Tradesman what what what what is their benefit for joining this group well we we pay our our our staff very very well and um uh we provide a lot of benefits traditional companies don't and if you look at like our retention rate of Staff it's very very high even though we've only been in a business a year we have a sister construction company and so some of those employees have pivoted over to become part of beehive just because of the growth that we're experiencing so there would be employees not contractors so they wouldn't be independent contractors available to rent this just beehive employees yeah most are beehive employees but on some services for example if you came in as a member to our office and said we want our house painted we might refer you to we set up meetings for you in our conference room where three independent painters who have these shops we don't do the painting and we make the introduction and we give you the feedback on who we like the best and we give you the the transparent pricing of what their um company charges so it's a way to for lack of a better term we're the repeat customer to a lot of these companies that are in the space so like for example we don't paint houses but we've already gotten requests from our members like who would you really trust and what would be the right price and we said well you know you could use this guy but it's going to take a long time but he's going to be the cheapest or you could use this one and you're going to get a longer warranty and they've been around longer so so we're trying to act as a resource for that membership fee to add value back to the people and one other key key thing that we're doing technology-wise is we're using our software in our back office to inventory the components at each facility we service so it could be a commercial rooftop where we're taking inventory of all of their equipment the age and date and efficiencies of various you know HVAC equipment so when the state offers incentives or rebates we're proactively going to our customer base and saying hey you know you're eligible right now you could get a new water heater you're at 11 years useful life is almost passed and the state will cover 88% of it so we're trying to add value back to our members by proactively monitoring things that they're not currently thinking about so your business plan is not hiring the trades people it's you're the aggregator and curator of the different Services And Trades we're do both we're doing both we're referring some work and we're self-performing some work is the way I would say it there but there you're supplementing your Demand with subcontractors correct yep okay and and the housing component would be mostly exclusively to your employees is that correct no it wouldn't it would be it would be to any trade professional so it could be it could be a plumbing a plumber or an El nurition that doesn't have space in our first floor but happens to live in the community and wants to be around other guys that are in the trades uhhuh yeah what if they wanted a space in a place to live yeah we would absolutely do that yep are there any other examples where you've seen residential over shops Warehouse or um IIA type uses I I don't think I've seen it uh to be totally direct with you you know this was um this was our idea to really um attract a lot of talent to a a a a high growth company and um provide housing that we think we can discount at our cost basis to them at very very good rates yeah we think it's a it's a it's a great perk to be able to provide housing to some of your staff and and and there's a whole bunch of things that go into the housing idea that we're trying to model up best practices in the Housing Community like you know yeah like how are you going to curate the tenants yeah right I'm sorry how will you curate the tenants in terms of finding the trades people well I mean you don't have any you don't have you don't have experience with res running residential housing correct correct this company doesn't no but we we we have in process probably our sister affiliate company a lot of apartment buildings that we we could build yeah what about the um Tradesmen who live and work their's trucks yeah no that's a that's a very good question we would expect you know Vans and utility trucks smaller stuff that Services you know the typical jobs for the trades people and I think maybe um uh rather than seeing it as a total negative in terms of that adds a lot of you know uh Vehicles it is right off the main road but the new building next to us is obviously going to be an industrial Warehouse with much bigger trucks but I think that um the um if if we attract the people we think we will like we did in South bro it'll be ironically a lot of independent people who are operating out of their garage where so trucks are on the residential they they're on their property and they're kind of coming now to a central location that's what we've seen I mean the the tenants we have now like in our current location or you know cabinet makers um irrigation companies um you know um uh all kinds of companies like that there's there's a very big demand for it yeah um should we take I mean this is in front of us for a ciod applicability uh I'm I'm absolutely fascinated by your business model oh thank you yeah and and it's interesting to learn about it but that by and large that business model is not gerine to finding applicability it may be later on in the permitting stage when we actually talk about number of parking spaces and number of trucks but I think in terms of applicability it strikes me as a slam dunk I'm a little bit less I I I like your business mod I I get it um this is our Gateway into our town right I'm not sure this is the this you said it it's going from an office building to Industrial I'm not sure I would like that look right I voted against the distribution center next door I could see why honestly um I would be more open to this from an applicability perspective if it didn't look industrial yeah it's going to look a lot like that it would ideally probably look a lot like that and I would say you feel free to drive by it this week I think you might be surprised I drive by it every day do you okay so you kind see town so um I would also you know again s oh southb okay um you know I would like a little bit again if I'm looking at our applicability and what we're in the cop like is what we want to drive this is okay but it's not something that gets me all excited that I would say it's a slam dunk I mean I would like something that maybe had um like a restaurant or something that again added value to the neighborhood I I am I am not saying that the ultimate plan is a Lam dunk I'm saying that the applicability right is a dunk again different no it's not because theability is what we apply to the applicability because that plan to Anita's Point shows no amenities or or external use to the community and to me that's a big component of these overlays that was the purpose of this overlay specifically for 129 was to add these amenities B right so if again like just because it's a project and someone wants to go through the this doesn't necessarily mean we H we should you know if it doesn't have what we were originally driving for and again those amenities then I don't think this is the right and I still like to hear this project come forward but maybe not through the overlay the applicability rout like it come forward through a normal row right um just to clarify it's only the residential portion that needs the Bayard um and presumably it's the residential portion that is the amenity not a not necessarily a traditional amenity but under the Bard residential is considered an amenity in of itself the the the first level indoor Contractor Yard does not need the Bayard or the seid um to be permitted it's indoor Contracting that's allow by right so it's it's kind of a hybrid I get it situation here but again like with this with what we were sold at town meeting what I voted for and what I was told I was voting for this wasn't what I visualized doesn't mean I don't necessarily want them to come forward in front of the planning board this is a very interesting idea but I just don't think NE and I guess that's where I am and that those are my concerns again this is our entrance way into our town this sets the tone y I voted again and I and I vote against that Distribution Center whole yeah I would say they're apples and oranges yeah right we have Press Cafe I like to see this area be more and I do like the idea of the housing on the second floor like I I do like that idea because I do think there's an opportunity to have more possibly retail possibly restaurants more amenities on the first floor right like so and I do like this idea but I'd be happy to revisit it in terms of carving out sections or some of these locations to make them like exclusive to restaurant use because that would be great for us and the guys coming back I'd love to have a coffee shop and I just wanted to come in with a very clean you know proposal that didn't ask for the moon world and stars but that you're speaking my I would love to have that to be totally transparent then that's what I would like yeah coffee shop I'm down for that yeah I'm always there can I ask at your other location are there any limits as to say you have a trades person that has like heavy equipment Beyond like a typical van or truck front- end loader um so what we what we've done with that is we're in permitting now to put a second steel building to put those things inside of there so um that that that would be the plan if we had the space on this site as phase two to behind the building obviously not in a line of sight or anything like that yeah if you made it look less industrial yep and then you have you know I'm more open to this yeah I like to look so much I took my corporate headquarters which is an office building and we're now finishing it with these Nice metal louvers to attract restaurants and the exact thing you're saying literally at 118 Turnpike where I work every day okay so all right so I just didn't want to over askk at the initial meeting yeah one question I have this this is almost more for the board and that is that I think when we think of mixed use we think of living or residential above something like a commercial like a store or a restaurant or something like that this is this is essentially residential above an indoor trk contractor's yard and to that end you know I would assume that there's a lot of comings and goings of contractor vehicles um but when question I had for you was um in your in your first building in Southboro you have on the second floor and I think you said the third floor there's storage correct and so if we had to do it over we would made the third floor okay so in this case this is a second floor right yeah so it's not going to be storage so my question is where is the you taking essentially the Sim similar idea but you're removing the storage and so I'm curious about where the rest of that stuff is going to go in terms of in terms of like is it going to be kept internal in each of the 33 units or in this case if we bump it down to say 29 because we have four that we want to attract retail only and we'd be happy to have it restricted to that cuz that's good for everybody I think storage was referred to as Self Storage yeah they they that model had Self Storage as part of the model this one does okay and and we got that some of that feedback we we originally thought maybe half of it we would do that and we got feedback and terms of with Adan and his team over the summer and the other thing that that I mean because some of these are if we're going to have them be affordable then that means they're going to go through the presumably the lottery process Etc so there's going to be people coming who are not necessarily of the type that we think this is geared for which is the young guy who wants to be with other guys and whatnot but it's potentially going to be with a two-bedroom a family or or even in a one-bedroom you could have a family and so without any amenities you know the idea of situating a family or small kids in above an indoor contractor's yard again to me that seems like a mixed use that I would think we would want to think twice about in terms of the applicability of sead in this case so I guess I don't understand one of something that Joel just said made me question I mean we can't have affordable housing that becomes part of an affordable housing stock that's restricted in ages over 18 or to only people in the trades am I right the the the affordable house um will be required to comply with the state's um 40b guidelines it's fair housing so no no restrictions will be able to be applied as as I'm aware to the affordable units right um I think to Joel's point the marketing that's required for the affordable units can include the other Associated marketing with the facility and make it very clear you know what else is what other activities are going on in the building meaning if somebody happens to have a family and they're interested in a a two-bedroom unit they'll be well aware right they'd rather have a than right yeah this is a crowd that's up early I mean they're back by three they're they're they're out by six I mean these these guys work hard so that being said I am a contractor and I do work different hours I'm a you know I fix things so an hbac service contractor um there's times I work in the middle of the night um make a lot of noise right um how how is that going to be regulated how how is the work hours going to be regulated yeah I mean we we we we intend to put and be very upfront in the leases with the tenants that there will be hourly restrictions for the very reason that um there is residential above it and we've we spent a lot of time with our Architects on sound detonation the sound sound detonating the C and um and activities um work related like welding yeah all that I mean there's going to be very strict hours on the units and that'll be part of the appeal or lack thereof to some businesses where you know there will be hard hard times I don't know exactly what time it'll be yet but we definitely anticipate having like no work after these hours no work before these hours kind of thing in these 30ish you know contract indoor contractor shops I like the concept and I think it's a needed um it is there's a market for it definitely is a market for it um but then working out the Kinks yeah I mean a lot of guys are using you know a self storage facility and they're getting really like they can't receive their materials so it shuts down at midnight right and and and or there's no power in the unit or there's no heat in the unit and and and frankly our costs if you look look at look at our cost in our sell location it's very reasonable so it's it's a way for you know an independent guy to go meet in a really high-end conference and start up yeah yep am I right that the units will be kind of a hybrid by unit of office it'll storage yeah it'll basically be a contractor shop where some of the existing ones will come with offices that are in place so you could look on our plan and you'd see which ones they're already in place and we designed it and demoed it around retaining and reusing some of the existing offices so what we see is a lot of the demand is let's say a plumber an electrician a sprinkler Guy where they have some for lack of a better term racking where they keep a lot of their components they have one little office where they put up their plans in the wall or they're making phone calls and there's guys out in the shop picking up materials and they're they're using the loading bay door directly off the building to put stuff in and out and they're there maybe you know in some cases once a day and some guys maybe once a week MH so it's like a Wei work for trademan it really is yeah yeah yep I like it thank you appreciate you guys having us out early on the agenda thank you yeah well again I think the the question of what do we want the details of this to look like have to be separated from whether or not it's uh applicable under seid yeah I don't understand what way it's the latter we can probably judge on the former obviously will be part of the the the permiting and permiting process yeah I don't know what what aspect of applicability is you think is not for me it's what Joel had said where it's the combination of Contractor Yard versus or with the uh residential I'm having a hard time combining those two in the same building for noise safety um I feel like the contractor you may be right but I don't think that's an applicability question I absolutely do think it is I absolutely don't because contain a yard all contained in the build use is use NOC applicability is to gate to permit the project to come through with a full set of plans and with the formalities right but you have a plan that has presidential over and and and and a chance to give the uh the proponent an idea I think what you're saying is good to give them an idea about what we would be interested in seeing when it if and when the project comes forward to us and to me having these two uses in two different buildings okay would be better for me than having them in the and I can understand that I can understand that but I just don't think that's an applicability question obviously what about chemicals that are being used by the contractor some bu there's some building permit and fire we have we have existing leases now where we're very strict on that kind of stuff for liability reasons Etc and in the specific use it's lease by by least tenant interview by tenant interview mhm yeah cuz I'm thinking you know I'm I'm not so sure you want to have a an apartment above a whole bunch of oxy acetylene tanks but that's exactly my point but that's a question for the next phase when we look at the purpose and the intent of the seid you know again like for me is to encourage aesthetic enhancements where it's currently deficient like I don't want something coming in like that's going to be a detriment to this area I want it like so that's like I'm looking through the whole the purpose and intent um and in what way do you think this is a detriment no I'm not that's like after what I we've just discussed initially like I don't want it to look industrial right if we do have if if we do carve out areas in front that would be for um you know coffee shop or whatever restaurant stuff like that then it's an enhancement to me that's where I was going when I was looking at whether or not this project should fall under it and the irony is these units are the way they're set up now it's perfect for a resident like a retail like coffee shop or something like that right off the lobby that would that would be really wonderful yeah you can take take a couple of them and turn it into a coffee shop right so when you know looking at this to me it has to be an improvement of what is there and is encouraging the right type of development whoever decided on Press Cafe like you know she's been trying to get them in our corporate headquarters cuz she we we every every time we come up we stop there it's just a great great thing it really has been nice Mike on the 129 overlay um under purpose and intent provide housing opportunities that be compatible and complimentary to me that is not compliment comptible me the compatible and complimentary decision gets made in the next phase no it's part of the purpose and intent of the overlay that is I disagree I think it is compatible to what we're looking for yeah I mean that's the other part some of us think it might be well be because you don't think it's and it can be adjusted into that I mean that's part of part of the negotiation process before the board to get these little details worked out okay maybe not so little details yeah I don't know if this is good or bad to say but the this problem of these vacant Office Buildings isn't going away in terms of and and and no disrespect cuz I don't know the applicant at all but you know what's happening right now across the country is you know the McDonald's effect from 1958 to you know 2010 where they picked all their locations that they were going to be that's basically happening with Amazon and all these major distribution centers and they're grabbing these what were office areas and they're I'm going to use the word bastardizing them and turning them into these boxes that are basically squares with zero value add to the community other than to you know Drive loud trucks in and out of there and they're eating up a lot of key like acreage you know if the average McDonald's is 3 acres the average average distribution facility is minimum 10 typically 50 so a lot of good real estate is going to like really dead windowless stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah it's true okay um is there any other questions Mike is Mike up there Mike Walsh yeah the only question I had was uh I'm sorry I couldn't see the plans do each one of these units individual units have direct outdoor access with garage doors or is it just or do they come one central location yeah many of them have um I'd say probably half have direct man door Andor garage door and some that don't would use the common area loading dock um where they're uh where they don't the topography limits it in some locations and just the interior layout limits it on some of the small units so they would just use the common area loading dock would it be where you're showing the trucks back then are those the active doors yes like so that that used to be a loading Bay uh back in the day and they filled it in and turned it into a into a that's about how many active Bays you'd have right that that is the concept design um that we have there and the other question I had was the second floor is going to be strictly residential no commercial no offices up there just strictly residential that's right yeah okay yeah and I and I do agree I listen to the rest of the board I I do agree with Anita it would be nice to have enhancements on that area um the mixu I do understand that um there's not a lot of residents in that area so I don't know how we compare to what's right there so um it is a mixed use uh but I think if we can you can split it you can't really control what can go inside a building on the mix use if it's zoned that way so I like the concept yeah yeah okay so no there's no requirement for the board to vote tonight I don't know if they Alan wants to maybe take another meeting um to revise or revisit um I just I just throw that out there um we seem to be open to yeah I'm really the amenity I mean I want to be totally clear like this is our first time coming your community you have you just met us tonight so we're not trying to speed date we want to make this like a good yeah no so I I mean we want to we want to go with the speed that this board's comfortable with so um if that means tweaking the plan a little bit and coming back with some um some of the amenity sections coord off the that would be nice if you could create and you know what kind of pretty it yeah you know what what I'm trying to a CH absolutely yeah so why don't we plan to do that yeah and I would hope take ride by we could wrap it up for the applicability in another meeting I think that makes I think we probably could tonight but we probably could tonight but you know if you want to come back with some more pictures right and some ideas sure you could but the spirit intent of applicability is it's a feel-good vote yeah so if you have a several members who are reticent yeah yeah it's not it's not really worth it at that point okay is it also possible to see if it could be split two floors trades two floors residential make it almost like two different you won't have all the Bas it's residential I like this I like this I like this I I like the idea of the residential on top you know so between the bay and the residence would there be availability of stairwell so like if you had the unit above the corner would it connect directly to your no it won't no it's a it's a one and it's really you're stuck with the way you yeah and it's really designed to be like you're in the residential you've you you know you you've taken off your boot yeah you're really entering aart apartment a hotel with a parking lot downstairs being to go back down shop right exactly yeah you know it's not that big of H ship to walk outside and back in right but you can go into the back of your unit from the first floor so you can come down the common area stairs comary hallway yeah without going outside Yep this this is intriguing yeah I like it you think that um September 25th will be enough time that's great yeah that we can get that done yeah thank you very much for your time tonight it's very nice to meet you and thank you look forward to working with you than you we just make a motion to continue to the do we do we even need to continue this I'll move to continue it happy the 25th moved by Mike seconded by me Paul oh all in favor hi Mike Mike hi it's unanimous cool y enjoy the red thank you sorry know the end of the game find out thanks guys yeah okay next up we have a minor modification for 191 chelsford Street previously approved site plan all right good evening to the board uh Casey Ferrer with Howard Stein Hudson um Evan do you have the layout cheat that I submitted excuse me so while Le's pulling that up just I guess brief overview of the time since I've last seen you um we did receive approval here we have a decision dated May 22nd 2024 um we've since also received Conservation Commission approval and Order conditions there as well as the Board of Health approval for the groundwater protection Zone um since that time we've been working with mass do uh on the curb cut permit which is still pending um a couple of things that they actually requested change Was the removal of the guard rail because they didn't feel it was actually necessary um and then also a removal of striping across the entrance and and ramp changes and stuff for them um that is not why I'm here before you guys tonight um I here before you because as part of the building design and kind of the layout that they move into after they receive site plan approval has been determined that uh kind of an optimal layout for the internal equipment of the washing equipment requires an additional 5T in the tunnel length um so to accommodate that what we've essentially done is you'll see on the kind of right side of this plan we have the bump out um which is kind of the office mechanical area um that was mirrored on the other side where the exit tunnel um stopped just short of where the office mechanical ended now we've just kind of squared that off to allow that extra room um it it turns out to be an increase of square footage approximately 110 square F feet can you just show me exactly what you're talking about sure so the entrance side right here this bump out this was mirrored on this other side before all we've done is we've squared It Off you showed that cuz that was I was looking confused now but where's the street the street is on the left hand side this side right yeah chumford street right here our entrance so this is the the runaround to the entrance and the exit so essentially the exit wall has just shifted approximately 5T towards just to meet where we had this wall before the bump okay I see it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay um and all that was designed to do is just optimize the equipment that they can use uh for the car wash it's not intended to increase volume or out output um it's strictly for installing the equipment um there has been a number of Plumbing changes and stuff as they get into design I'm not sure whether or not you guys really want to hear about that um but the main there's no Landscaping changes no lighting changes no access changes no storm water changes strictly just moving a a wall on the building to meet where the bump out was how was the design changeed because I know we talked a lot initially about the exterior design how did that change with this bump out did it so there was a break so all that's going to do is bring that bump out to the where the tower element was um and there was a break in the visual aesthetic anyway so that's going to be maintained to still maintain a separation between that kind of office mechanical wall and then the exit tunnel has sorry has the garage bay door as well with the the um kind of architectural elements that you chose for kind of that um Garrison yeah that did not change nothing is changing architecturally it was to connect the 2-in PVC return you they needed to do that is out the reason why no no no that's a separate Plumbing change but that was this is driven by the internal Mechanicals of the actual wash equipment that's on the inside which I don't have any part in the design of just told that they need an extra 5et on the tunnel yeah the the 2-in return line that's the recirculation tank so what I was told as we're moving through with their their Plumbing Engineers is that having the recirculation tanks go under the the wash tunnel and through creates a lot of utility conflicts with everything that they have sub surface there um so it would be better if it was on the bypass lane where it just goes under the office portion of it rather than all the the Mechanicals and utilities so we just move the recirculation tanks to the the bypass lane side of everything change sewer to go around that side um and that's why you see that two inch turn coming up on that side okay anyone have anything else for the applicant it just had so the recirculation tanks went from the middle of the parking lot to the correct right just for everybody's benefit so originally the recirculation tanks were up here yeah they kind of drove straight up to the street having to cross the tunnel with the utilities that are required for the recirculation tanks it was easier to cross the office than the tunnel so they wanted it on this side and we wrap the sewer to come back around and have the same connection yeah take a motion I will move that we Grant the minor mod I'll second that moved by Mike rbec second by Paul all in favor hi hi hi Mike hi it's unanimous thank you very much for your time thank you Casey okay um next up we have no new public hearings we have continued public hearings um we're not going to talk about our rules and regulations tonight one day have a short list of public hearings and we can do our rules and regulations we do need to continue that so maybe we should also think about putting that on a special on a work session so that it actually gets done instead of kicked down the curb but anyway I'll take a motion so I move to continue that to a future work session to be determined no okay all in favor and that was a motion by CH Chris second by I think PA and unanimous including Mike Walsh on the zoom call okay next up we have 150 North Road Viking Development LLC for the property at blah blah I'm not going to read it not going to read it just not going to read it uh for the record Chris fendon here on behalf of Viking Development LLC 302 Innovation Drive Franklin Tennessee um get right into it when we were here two weeks ago the takeaway was to look at a site plan that had seven parking spaces and then a narrative that kind of discussed the impacts of those changes to Landscaping drainage all of those things uh both of those were submitted last week um high level we moved everything 9 ft West or plan North there and added the seven spaces what that did was shifted the retaining wall landscaped area curb drive lane trash enclosure all of that about 9 ft um plan North or west the uh I'll emphasize that in making those changes we made sure to stay focused on all the previous items we discussed landscape screening lighting you know circulation all of that um and then lastly you'll see in that top right corner there uh we added a designated snow storage area 825 squ ft paved striped designated only for um lined Corner yeah the the radius area there on the top right yeah that looks accessible so that that's really the gist of all the Chang just uh I thank you we have our design team here if you have any technical questions I just want to thank you for those changes they look really good yeah yeah I think it it it fit in well you almost don't even notice them yeah and does this impact did I read somewhere that it impacted the storm water management if we were to it did in the narrative it lists uh some increases you know 2200 ft of impervious area they added a couple of Chambers to the underground system mhm okay so then I guess my bad I never quite clarified what we were doing with this um are we were we wanting them to implement these changes or we were wanting them to give us a plan if they needed in the future to implement these changes this is what that would look like it it sounds like with the retaining walls moving it's probably something that has to be decided upon right now rather than later you don't so are these changes that you guys are willing to make yes so we updated our entire design and submitted a whole another set of drawings right so I think we're Comal I think I think the the original understanding was that we'd put an exhibit together after we went back and thought about it we saw it fitting 9 ft not a huge deal let's meet in the middle at the 57 spaces got it and then hope would be the plans are now ready to go and we can just kind of keep moving forward okay all right do we have any questions in addition or comments to the applicant I think think we've come to a good place what's that I think we've come to a good place here okay do we want to discuss potential conditions yes yeah um so why don't we should we is there any comment from the public in addition thought I saw you come in uh my name is Michael Joy at 147 North Road uh real quick not related to this The Beehive I think that's an awesome project uh as a owning two small businesses and lack of storage uh just I didn't have a public comment for that point um as for this project uh I still think it's uh keep it short and sweet uh the building size is unreasonable the land plots unreasonable and I don't see how adding spots uh parking spaces helps that um the two uh daycare centers in the area both have lots under uh 2 Acres both have buildings that are within 10,000 sare ft where it's 16,000 over 3 and a half acres taking up three uh residential lots in the middle of a housing crisis with the state passing a $5 billion bill um um I don't see how this project can be deemed reasonable I feel as if it fails uh to meet that I believe there's president to say it doesn't at this current size in the current lot area um and to remind the board that it is up to the applicant to prove if you guys deemed it unreasonable to prove that your uh ruling is uh going Beyond J so that's thank you do we want to further discuss amongst ourselves are we at are we at the point where we want to close the public hearing first so take a motion I make a motion to close public hearing I'll second that Nita made the motion Paul made the second and I'll take a vote I hi hi hi it's unanimous okay um um so first discussion amongst ourselves and then to proceed with uh conditions if we are then at that point actually I think we need to reopen the public hearing if we want the applicants input on the conditions uh okay we have to do that yes right then let's reopen the public hearing take a motion make a motion to reopen public hearing second all in favor I sorry about that okay um so let's first Talk Amongst ourselves if anyone has any further commentary on this project I you know I know our hands are kind of tied on this um and this I've got concerns of the business model um again I think this is someone who looks at a map of Schumer who's not from this area I've got concerns um that you know this will be a daycare facility it'll go along for about 5 10 years and then somewhere along the line they're going to realize that this is not as profitable you can't fill the positions um and we're going to be left with this space and again these residential you know potentially could have been residential nice area now we have this building yeah um that is my concern um I not nothing against the applicant it's just those of us who've lived here know this area know the traffic on that road um again like that's not where I would look to put my kids in for daycare um and just because I'm a busy mom and I'm trying to get there to pick them up trying to drop them off not that ideal location um I know you're dead set on it because you think that's great right off the highway route four all of that I wish you the best of luck I hope you're successful and you stay um in this area and it's really successful but I do have concerns and I think part of that is the size of it I think if it was smaller I think it has a better chance of succeeding um I yeah I actually kind of agree with Anita in some of that in this underlying sense that's a first a first point that out but uh I think the control that we have to apply here is not a control of what this use is now it's to make sure that we don't get into the situation that we have seen around town with various projects they're there they happen 6 eight years later something changes and now somebody comes in with a with a proposal for it that we never would have passed in the first place M but the building's already there and they wear us down and we go for it and I don't want that to happen so I want to be sure that so can we put a covenant some kind of a restriction I mean when this is being built under the do Amendment so if I mean is it even necessary to put such a restriction if something is built under that under that um use by right provision and then somebody wants to change the use they would have to come to us correct absolutely sure that's that goes without saying um we talked about last meeting uh one do use changing to another do use right around the corner that required um coming back to the planning board okay that theur even if it's another do use it has to come back to us yes and certainly if it's not a do use then the doors are wide open and they have no legal protections we we could refuse and feel very happy about it and Justified um if someone wanted to buy this and do something different and just not allow it it wasn't a do if it was non overuse then it's whatever the zoning allows which I think we all understand it's single family zoning okay so they might have to raise it and sell it as three lots and an interesting now here here's a a curious question this is Zone single family MH I want to be absolutely sure that there's not a a seid way in because this is not exactly a single family use it's going in because of do but uh I want to make sure that that uh there wouldn't be a seid way around this and I don't think there would be that's my my reading of under z z sing yeah okay okay good um what were you thinking for conditions Chris I see a list yeah um so some of these were ones that have been talked about or proposed um by you um the flashing beacons at Wigan in Erland um based on the last meeting lights off between 700 p.m. and 6: a.m. I think it was 7: a.m. but I'm suggesting maybe I'm okay with that okay yeah that was something we went internal about and stuck with s 700 p.m. to 6: a.m. would be okay yep okay uh deliveries and garbage between 10 and 3 I think it was that you might have pulled that one from wayth yeah um 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. yes presume presume that would not apply to snow removal correct plows have to show when they show um that you would conduct the timing changes on the the lights yeah um and then maybe even sooner if they're going to lead to Improvement in the traffic flow maybe we could do them I could I can only do them as as quick as we can get those plans approved yeah and then the two that I'm proposing to add would be if there are events in the school of two or more classes that it be held off site so that one I think I'd have to work with you on in terms of where we draw that line what do you mean because I've got three 2-year-old classrooms three three-year-old classrooms so I I understand what you're going for I understand the full school events would be offsite but there's going to be something in between the one classroom and the full school where it's going to create big trff it with like a student count or something like that instead of classrooms how many students are in a classroom 195 at full oh at a classroom uh 20 would be our largest 60 so if you have if there's an event with two classrooms say 40 kids that's a lot of additional parents coming in at once so maybe 40 kids events of 40 kids or more when do you normally hold your these events are they late afternoon are they after Clos yeah no they typically would occur between 4:00 and 6:00 p.m. it would be at talking about like an ice cream reason I asked that is because we will have morning events donuts with Dad but we also have you know ice cream social at the end of pickup and like I said last week the only reason I asked that is not middle of the day when obviously the employees most of the employees are likely there and many of these facilities towards late late afternoon or early evening students begin to leave that's when you have more parents picking up kids and needing spaces so but you may you may we actually have spaces available not if there's an event that's my point is I I think the model is likely to look like it's the same number of cars they just some of them just stay longer if you follow me the parents going to come pick up the kid and there maybe stay for an hour for the ice cream social before we we can attempt to resolve this tonight we don't have to resolve this tonight and I don't would want some some in between yeah and I'm willing to work with you on that it's just from an operation side I am not familiar completely with how many kids how many par what we'll likely do here is we're going through um a list of conditions mhm and if uh if you task me I'll draft a decision we'll have it available at the next meeting so we don't need to figure out all the details tonight I think the exercise we're going through was good because in the event there is is a condition that they are unacceptable with Y we should know that sooner rather than later that's that's one I can certainly come back next you know two weeks and have more idea of what we can do because sometimes correct me if I'm wrong do some like I remember from day um my kids were like they would have like you know holiday you know concerts late in the afternoon which like my case would be me and my husband going with two cars cuz we both want to get there to see the both you know they're both coming from work so that I think that's what you're trying to it's not like this the ice cream social but if there's like aass that would be off site that would every classroom sings a song for you know graduation or winter you know formal or whatever it is those are held offsite okay like I think well yeah and those events but there're going to be maybe grade events that are one grade together something like so he'll get back to us on what he thinks is acceptable and we'll have to decide if we think it's also acceptable the other one um it would be good to maybe see a traffic or um safety review after some period of time in operation um just to make sure that traffic's flowing okay that there are no adjustments that may need to be made after um operations have been in place for a while is is that something we could ask of our safety people I mean I don't know I don't know just call the we've often proposed it as a condition for some of the other projects yeah that's true that's true where we've had traffic you want we'll figure out a way to try to coordinate that with the implementation of the timing improvements with the light yeah yeah yeah that makes sense we'll figure something out I think scope and all of that would have to iron out but yeah yeah some type of review after some period of time after the crosswalks have been in place the timing has been been in place to see if there's any other things that the town or the applicant can work through if things do end up getting worse than we would expect so we would capture it sure yeah basically something I can't necessar right because it can't be without beside the limits of what we're developing oh yeah yeah again there's an existing problem so yep okay okay any more nope okay now I make a motion to close public comment are we good close the public hearing I think we that we're ready for that I will second it motion by Anita second by Mike rback all in favor of closing the public hearing I okay and I'll take a motion on so I got a I get a quick note for you guys before you make a um a vote so I've been on this committee for 7even years and um you know we haven't really pushed back on some projects and so before you take your vote just my opinion this is wrong for chumford this is wrong for the neighborhood and yes it's coming in under Dover but there's no reason why we have to approve this let Town Council represent us in land court and fight it out then just because they're coming in for do act that are the amendments the only reason why we were discussing this look at your conditions you were just talking about it's an existing problem on that roadway and you're just going to enhance it you're going to make it worse this whole week I've been going up and down Route four at with the traffic and it's 45 miles hour I mean at what point do we say no as a board so think about that before you take a vote in in favor of this because you're going to wreck a neighborhood and it's in the dead center of Route four in a residential single family neighborhood that's all I have to say the so you're you're stating that you I'm voting no I know but I'm I'm I'm and if the and if we have a majority of the no based on the unreasonableness of size or the unreasonable impact to traffic or wrong it's everything everything we talked about wrong it's the wrong size it's wrong for the neighborhood and it's wrong for chumford let's allow T if if this this proponent really wants to come in here then let's go to court over it and let's fight it in court and allow the courts to tell us that we have to put this in place because when does it stop this is perfect for the down in the 129 area this this outside company has come in and they've picked right in the Dead C of Route four and it's going to be created a major issue in town and it's going to be reg regrettable for this planning board to approve this so I'm just telling you up front I usually don't take a stand like this but come on this is this is crazy so my vote I'm going to be voting no against it and if there's other planning board members that want to say no to that's fine if you want to vote for it that's great that's fine but legally we have to we excuse me can I can I finish my sentence legally we're able to deny it on the basis that it's not reasonable so we have to in our decision lay out the ways in which it is not reasonable to us so I'm asking you to clarify it's wrong for the town doesn't meet it's not reasonable you have to you have you have to sizewise sizewise traffic-wise and safety of Route four pedestrians on that street that's why I'm saying it's unreasonable and removal of three Residential Properties so guys based on the do based on the do act the reasonable RS and applied to use can only be applied for bulk and height the lot itself the lot coverage open space parking and building coverage right we we cannot unfor Ely take into account safety and traffic I understand that's great but unfortunately I'm not putting my name on that that we can't incorporate safety to a project the notice from the MMA State safety has a reason toy did we close the public hearing yeah let's I recommend we take a vote on this or can I make a motion to vote on this project I just to clarify the voting thresholds the um the do sight plan is a simple majority and then the uh voluntary special permit is super majority which we haven't you we haven't spent a lot of time on but and uh just for the board's um information council is is has been with us this evening and what he is with us this evening okay um um does anyone have any questions for Council actually I do um can you confirm that traffic and safety are not part of the considerations that we can make under over as being unreasonable Madam chair can you hear me I can yes um through the chair I can confirm that that is language directly lifted from the statute itself thank you so we would be making the case that the building is Too Tall or too bulky bulky 16,000 sare ft for the site or for the area for the area I mean that seems like an aesthetic determination does that rise to the level of it's not aesthetic when you put a 16,000 squ foot building in a residential neighborhood it's not aesthetic it's doesn't fit what what is the um the daycare that turned into is it down the street what's that it went from a church to a daycare I live right next door to that how big is that that's 16,000,000 maybe 10 it's the there's multiple floors in there so I I I don't know off hand that's not 16,000 yeah I mean we didn't spend a lot of time on how reasonable regulations are determined um but the applicant has presented that it's compliant with the underlying zoning related to F setbacks lot coverage so compliant with as those things pertain to the do act as no as it pertains to the underlying RB zoning so remember it's a 3 Acre Site right so when you do the math and let's assume uh let's assume the let's assume the standard was you had to comply with underlying RB zoning standards MH I think the applicant has presented in the plans indicate that dimensionally setbacks F lot coverage yeah it's compl Cent so I think I think the next question is you know does that mean does that by default mean that it's reasonable if it's compliant with underlying zoning or is there some other some other reasonable standard that that's applied outside of underlying zoning I don't have I don't know that answer Council would you be willing to weigh in on that question I mean yes absolutely um if the project complies with the requirements that are now in place in the zoning bylaws as to the uh factors we mentioned lot coverage lot size Etc then it's per se reasonable um under the Dober Amendment there's the Dober Amendment does not give the board discretion in this instance to say Well it it complies with our zoning BW but we still don't think it's reasonable if it does comply with the existing dimensional dimensional requirements then it would be P say [Music] reasonable so in your opinion do we have we need to be able to say it's unreasonable this project is unreasonable to deny it and I was of the opinion walking in tonight that we didn't have any grounds to deem this project unreasonable based on the project that's been presented to us would you disagree with that statement based on what I've heard that the project is compliant with all the applicable bylaws no I have not heard a basis for saying that compliance would be unreasonable that the project can be denied at this point and I think the bulk and height is related to the lot itself and not the neighboring neighborhood may may I offer something yes please maybe maybe the maybe the appropriate step is um if if the if the concern is related to um parking traffic extended to safety while those items aren't necessarily directly related to Dover or within Dover the applicant has indicated that they're willing to work with the board on those six conditions some of those conditions are somewhat related to um a post occupancy review and maybe the key here is to work with Council to try to develop ums that some a bit bit more robust standards or conditions than we would normally would do on our own yeah um in that that way the board has taken taken as as taken the steps as far as they possibly can by engaging with Council asking for some assistance on creating some you know more more involved this uh conditions um that speak to um some of the board's concerns with the understanding that the applicant is in conceptual agreement with those I think that's a good idea and I think we should do that but I don't think it addresses the concern that most of us have about the size of this project within the neighborhood and I know I have that concern I share Anita's concerns about this being the wrong location for this um however with that being said I'm not seeing much we can do about that yeah I mean if if this were a special permit we would have we do have as part of this part of it is but but I think for the for the overall scheme here if this were in a special permit context I think we'd have a lot more territory to work in and it's for that reason I'm not I'm not convinced that uh uh a great deal of push back will be helpful to us but I do think it would be useful to have to Council so the the other option here procedurally is I don't believe the board is required to take a a vote tonight um I think going through the exercise of conditions is is a good one and what we've done in the past is um drafted a decision yeah and then you're still you're still deliberating that draft decision maybe in this case engaging with Council to create a draft Yeah for deliberation create the conditions create the conditions I think we should work with Council to try to make it the the regulations or the conditions as strong as possible for the simple fact that my time in this board I rarely see a concern when we when we look at the departmental letters we rarely see a concern raised by the police department in this case red flag red flag yeah they red flag yeah so Jonathan just based upon what you're hearing uh in particularly the um the mention of the police department letter and the uh the public record on the traffic peer review I mean what are your what are your procedural recommendations to the board is that something that should be re Revisited or reviewed in more detail or should the public hearing remain closed and the board focus on drafting a decision um through you madam chair I I concur with um the plan planning director's advice to the board about conditions um I think that's the appropriate direction to go at this point under the legal standard that applies um to try to establish some reasonable conditions within the context of site plan approval to approve the project um the one thing I wanted everyone to keep in mind is that if this project is voted down and appeal is taken to court the board could potentially lose its ability to impose any conditions on the project project if the court overturns the decision it could simply be as submitted so I think it it's a prevents presents a good opportunity for the board given concerns to work on reasonable conditions of approval yeah okay so I think what I'm what I'm hearing is take no votes tonight uh the public hearing is closed uh we have ample time within the uh this the statutory time frames we'll have a draft decision uh for the next meeting which is setember 25th mhm okay Y how many things do we have on September 25th by the way how many what how many hearings do we have on September 25th we have um Nancy Chen 330 B Road this um that that's what we have so far okay no no new public hearings okay I'll make Madam can I ask can I ask some questions sure I just want to make sure I understand what what just occurred I'll start by saying that we've now gone through the process in terms of all of these reasonable regulations Traffic Safety all of that we've had our own studies done by by professionals we've used thirdparty reviews we've had all of them stand up here and explain to you what the impact of this project is and there's not been any legitimate concern that we couldn't find a solution to a lot of the conditions being discussed the rrfbs the lighting timing the parking those are are us cooperating with you those are are not uh conditions that are required for this development to operate I I want to make that clear and then Evan just so I understand what's being agreed to are we going to discuss conditions applicant and board or is it just on your side that will be presented to us prior to the next meeting well my original thought was it would be drafted it would be shared and then at the next meeting it would be uh voted yes yeah that's the still correct process we're just voting tonight correct okay right I mean as I understand it and Council can um correct me in order to have a an approval that the conditions are deemed reasonable I think you need some interaction or engagement from the applicant right what's that need to reopen this I don't think we need to open reopen it tonight we can continue it we we may have to reopen it on the 25th um depending you know if there are proposed conditions that the applicant isn't necessarily though that it's an open me like if it's council's uh rejoined us Jonathan would you you have something to add to that um no I've been here all long I just turned my camera on sorry about that um no I think that's correct as as far as reopening the public hearing um the really the purpose of that is to present new evidence or comment to the board so if the board has taken in all the evidence it needs to address this application and to formulate conditions then it can do that at a continued session of the meeting without having to reopen this to comment if other information comes in during that time for instance the applicant submits some new information about to address a proposed condition then yeah I think think it would be appropriate at that point to reopen the hearing to make sure that you know all points of view are heard but if that doesn't happen then I think you can proceed to conditions without reopening the hearing but if we want the applicants input into those conditions or have that discussion we would have to open the the hearing the public hearing again right I think yeah I think that's probably the safer course of action I would agree okay okay all right don't need to make any motions to do something continue move to continue this to September 25th I will second motion um by Chris second by Mike rbe all in favor I I I and Mike was thank you okay um thank you next up we have it's getting hot in here Evan hot Dedra how much more time do you have with us this evening come on Deedra you can do it I my daughter's leaving the country shortly tomorrow for a number of months so I'm going to try and be out of here a little early but I don't want to miss this well the reason I ask is I mean maybe we could agree on if you have a a hard stop if may be beneficial to just let everybody know okay well yeah I I need to be out the door at 9: um we should be it's now 8:30 be tight 6 may be I just I need to you have not mull mull in right you already have mull in once so if you if this discussion goes beyond 9:00 after she leaves you I won't be eligible to vote Joel you're up y me Jo's up you're up sorry I mean I I guess I can stay go home some things you got to do you know what yeah she's more important your daughter is more important is she going on a boat she's going on a boat yeah she's more important she's going to be at to se at sea for a couple of months in blue ocean water so I can offer we'll be as brief as possible and if we don't resolve um what we're looking to resolve this evening we'll certainly ask for a continuance and pick up the discussion in in two weeks she told me a different date and then it got so with that um for the record Brian G with Han Associates on behalf of property possible I have Doug howler uh attorney on this uh so to be brief um I just would like to go over quickly uh exactly what we've done for revised plans documentation um reiterate our our kind of commitments um to what we've discussed previously Doug can speak to some housekeeping on procedural matters and then we're probably going to run out of time um so we since two weeks ago we revised the plans uh that reflected the straw pole so we eliminated two waivers one of them being the roadway width of 34 ft so we've expanded the road or the right of way width to 34 ft uh so we expanded it to 40 so it's now compliant uh and we also um what was the other so the only two the only two waivers that we have right now are sidewalk on the Northern side uh which was agreed upon and the Hammerhead turn around uh the one that was revised was pavement width so we went up from 20 ft to 22 ft so uh now we have a fully compliant roadway with the exception of those two two waivers that the board indicated um favorably we also responded to engineering comments um really the only gerain one was securing an easement on parcel X or showing an easement on parcel X to Encompass the sewer service line uh that exists today for the existing house that going to be repurposed for Lot 4 uh so that is on there for fire department we issued a sweat path analysis and responded to all the fire department's comments uh we got an email back uh from them Thanking us for for the revision and the response um one item of note uh not necessarily trying to speak to it but it was brought up last uh hearing about uh the past the groundwater contouring and I just I look back on the record and we had issued a ground groundwater contour map that overlaid our project and we had discussion uh in July on that with our our LSP and we had kind of uh thought that that that issue was resolved now for so we believe everything within 10 hildr proper with the exception of of hildr Street and the widening and and what's associated with that all question comments have have been addressed um so please tell us if that is not the case now VII today uh issued a revised traffic impact assessment now the only change to the traffic impact assessment was to go was to rerun the numbers for trip generation of our project from six lots and 12 units down to the current uh configuration which is four lots and seven units recommendations findings all remain consistent we simply reduced uh density within the assessment uh to reflect the plan so that the record is clear uh on hildr Street uh there was a question about sidewalks and whether or not we had committed to doing that previously so I looked back at the record excuse me back in May uh vaness issued a a memorandum uh one of the responses to Beta uh had a consideration about out sidewalk construction it was quoted at $180,000 um and in that letter there was a suggestion that we would make a kind of a a contribution to that now an important piece to note on that when that was issued and the conversation happened in March this was still a six lot subdivision with 12 units since then excuse me we have discussed roadway widening we've committed to roadway widening to 18 feet um the density has gone down from six to four lots and seven units so I had a conversation with the applicant um and he feels that the roadway widening coupled with the town Engineers request for survey and Street acceptance plans for the town to take over or accept hildr Street he he is willing to provide that so it's roadway widening of Hilder Street to 18 ft as well as survey and plans to allow the town to at some future date accept Hilder Street as a public road um with that I'm going to turn it over to Doug just to to briefly touch on any procedurals one or two good evening Madam chair and I will be brief um one of the questions that came up at the last hearing was about the applicants right to have this brought before the board and whether or not there was written permission from the owners so I provided Evan uh who would then provided with Town Council I believe evidence conclusive evidence that the original property owner Kimberly uh oberhauser gave such written consent on November 18th of 2020 and that subsequent when unfortunately she passed away um her son inherited the property and he gave written permission allowing the applicant to go forward as it's attorning in fact and to come before this board and SE seek all the types of relief it has and he did that on April 8th of 2023 so I want to be clear so that there's no misconception for the public everything that's been submitted was done with the consent of the owner and authorization so clear that issue up once and for all the second uh item that I just want to bring to the attention of the board is um you can improve this if you so desire um with a condition that it's going to be subject to the board of Health's ultimate determination about the septic systems and how they work um we don't believe that that that's an environmental type issue that's not within Germain to this board's jurisdiction but you could make a condition that before any kind of construction goes forward the Board of Health would have to opine and consent to the the SE um with respect to the widening of the street um as we just mentioned our client is prepared to make some type of contribution to this by providing quite a amount of of the engineering that will allow this town to get that street approved and it will be then at the town's expense to put in that sidewalk but it'll be position because if my client was throw with the 18 ft the town Engineers already indicated that that's perfectly fine with the town engineer standards um and to suggest that it would be approved at town meeting the other alternative to this and I am not trying to throw a bomb here so I don't want to hear moaning and groaning but is there is another solution which is to make hildr Street One Way heading south from Bill rer Road and then heading south that would accomplish a number of things things people may not like that but what it would definitely address and I think the board has to think about that is a it certainly it would be one-way traffic so the width of the road even today would apparently be okay number two it would have the cars coming up and clearly would be able to see any pedestrians walking along the street they they would have a lot wider area to see people recognize that you know people are used to doing things in a certain way and I like we were with the town common and coming down Westford Street but the town put in those blockers to stop the merging of traffic sometimes the little change happens to work for the better you don't have to do that but it is an alternative that you can consider suggesting that this be a one-way Street up hildr and then it can everybody can exit out through Plum and and down um I think it's Grove I believe um other than that you have anything else that you like I believe that we're at a point where we could ask this board to take a vote we hit most of the criteria that you've asked for and the waivers are down to the two that you've already indicated were acceptable thank you okay um do we want to take public first or do we want to discuss first just a quick question regarding ownership uh Town Council had indicated that um the board should um request an attestation uh document say stating that that's still in effect is that has that been provided that's been provided that was provided and then Town Council weigh in that that was adequate sufficient uh that was not provided it was not provided I thought I saw it no the original document was provided I understand the sworn attestation that it's still in effect and in full course is something we would need to request because it was originally signed in April of 2023 and given the owners discussions with some of the neighbors uh there may be some question about that there isn't any question it's never been terminated we have a signed contract so based on our attorney's recommendation I would like to officially ask for a sworn attestation that the power of attorney is still in effect in full force as we sit here today it is as a matter of law it's never been terminated any kind of termination would have been required to be in writing it hasn't has never been done so as you sit here today it's it's valid could we get our town council's opinion is he still there yeah Madam chair uh my concern on this and the reason I suggested an atation is because the two things number one it's been addressed uh concerns have been raised at least by hearsay that the owner may not no longer be in favor of this but more importantly I think that the attestation was presented to the board board in the form of an excerpt from a document the board does not have so I think what it would be appropriate in this instance is simply to say yes this is the true and complete um copy of the attestation is presently in effect and the attestation is fined to come from the applicant that's all that the board would be requesting you can do that we'll have our client Michael sign an attestation based on Town council's comment it that he still has rights absolutely okay thank you I also wanted to mention um when we first were asked for the two waivers of the right of way and roadwi the the discussion was that it was needed in order to pull that fourth lot out of the conservation restriction area um we pulled back that W those waivers and it's interesting how that is still outside of the conservation area so I just wanted to mention that publicly um that that was essentially not needed at the time but it was given as a a reason for those waivers um I also have a question to clarify the applicant is willing to put money towards sidewalks on Hildreth no not money it's contributing the engineering plant which it has paid for which can then be used by the town engineer as the town engineer has previously discussed it would be very positive the town saves the town a ton of money not to have all the engineering so we're turning over our I'll call call intellectual property for the town to use and it can rely upon so that's the cont this is assuming the town meeting body accepts this roadway well it would be built out first to be built out to the the way the town engineer is suggesting that 18 ft is sufficient then the town engineer would be relying on the plans that we provide when they're I I consider them as builts basically and the surveys that would show the engineering that took place and the town can then rely on it it doesn't have to go out and resurvey so you're not willing to the cas no is not willing to put sidewalks on Hildreth that's correct okay as a also a town meeting rep I can say that with Fair certainty that that roadway will not be accepted by town meeting that close to a school without a sidewalk okay I'll wait for town meeting to make that decision and that is a problem for me because that if that doesn't get accepted and there's no sidewalk and we approve this project we're approving a project that has safety concerns that will never get addressed because your your applicant is not willing to put sidewalks on hildr it's not obligated to and it's not willing to it's contributing in other ways that the town has said is acceptable to it your board may not believe that's enough but Town Engineers seem to think that was a very significant contribution I might add that there are other people and the entire town would benefit by having that Town Road accepted and if the Town Road was accepted the town engineer might recommend putting in a sidewalk at the town's expense yes because it's needed because of project being added for the benefit of everybody not because of the SRA Street the neighbors are saying before this has been built that it's questionable that safety issue then then the sidewalk should be going in whether this Project's going forward or not the traffic study indicated that it's a safety issue and the alternative to that was to make it a one way which will increase speeds which will cause another safety issue that's not what the report said it absolutely does it's okay you said the same thing by the way about the sidewalk and you see the discrepancies of the I can I just say something 18 feet wide before you make a decision I really want you guys all to come down my street and I want you to see what 17 ft wide is and you tell me whether or not two cars can pass on it so I think this plan whether I I appreciate them making the 13 ft now 18 ft before anybody makes a decision please come down my street and we will do it we'll take my car in one of you in one of your cars and you tell me whether or not that that is a sufficient width and looking at this in section 81m when you're looking at a sub division it says that we you know it's basis of laying out the public ways um even those adjacent to it based off a safety and I I just don't believe that whe you know 18 ft adding doubling the traffic doubling the housing on that street because that's what it's basically doing going up by is I I just don't think that's again you know this to me looking at the subdivision law this is not in addition to the traffic and safety I also had a question about lot four in a number of the documents it was pointed out that that is is noted as a duplex lot in some documents it's not is it your position also that you will not put a deed restriction on that lot okay on that item um we may need some some guidance from Council but my understanding is past definitive St subdivision applications where waivers have been granted have have approved the plans based upon the number of dwelling units being being approved um so while while the applicant may not agree to a covenant and the board may not have legal authority to Covenant there may be other means to to effectuate the same result um and so if that's if that's a um a significant matter to the board I would encourage you to just you know engage with councel on that as well because that's a significant concern that I have that if we approve this subdivision with um three duplexes three duplexes and one single family for seven units and then it suddenly grows to eight units it pretty much negates everything we've been talking about in terms of the right so I think I you're saying I think what's going on here is seven the the applicants submitted definitive subdivision but we all know that lot four under zoning qualifies as a two family mhm and if they can resolve the the the sore flow issues with DPW at some time in in the future if it didn't have definitive subdivision it would likely be free and clear to be converted to but because there's a definitive subdivision there may be a means through that approval to um either condition it or by default um limit it to as as it's being proposed could we get Town council's opinion before next meeting on that on options yep and since it's he was looking for a vote tonight I thought I thought we were wrapping this up tonight continue yeah oh in fact there there is one one other thing about the storm water the infiltration Basin if you can confirm it looks like it's less than 50 ft away from a 15% slope using the infiltration Basin at least uh guidelines so if you can double check that you have sufficient setback from the slope that would be great thank you I make a motion to ship I'll second that a motion May um just a point of order um May I would um recommend that as part of the vote to um Grant the continuance that it be conditioned upon the applicant um uh granting the extension of time to act for the board okay okay two weeks FR after the next Friday oh yeah I don't want to come in on Friday thank you I don't want to say that how are we going to do that yeah yeah can we're making a motion make the motion we have a time constraint as John raised the statutory timelines for the board to act um and because of the extended dur and continuances and and so forth um no I understand just what do you want me to say for the for the motion that's all I want to know spell it out I'm making a motion to continue to the next to the 25th that's all we need to do is continue I have it in writing the motion articulate that sorry I was like okay you can you can include in your motion um uh a requirement for the applicant to provide the extension for the board to act okay so I make a motion to the 20 to the to the September 25th um provided that the applicant um provide the board gr board a extension September 27th thank you second there going to be no public input can the next meeting Kevin Chelli uh sorry I no no no that's quite all right no no no we want to get you out of here I'm going to be gone can the next meeting stop with public input to this meeting yeah we okay that's all I want to ask thank you yes no like in the beginning of the meeting not like the fourth group down right that's we got it you'll be first yes yes see your daughter they'll have a safe trip yes we'll do that I move to a journ second did we vote on this continuous we did can we vote to continue this meeting to continue the meeting second it's moved in second you said it I seconded it second all in favor I now we're voting to adjourn Walsh he already tojn second by he's on vacation move to adjourn by Chris second by Mike gra back all in favor hi awful sorry you guys e