##VIDEO ID:pewQdJAIvcA## e e e e e Earth the Chris can you hear us I can now hey yeah at concom I said that um that you went to San Antonio for cooler [Laughter] weather okay it being 6:30 on October 23rd we will call to order the work session of the CHC planning board um these meetings are televised and recorded and will be available on demand and if the electronics should go down then we'll do our best to bring it back and alternatively we will continue the meeting um so the first we want to do is review the baod um overlay um so I don't know if everyone had a chance to review hey hey um the old the prior presentations from um town meeting and the economic development Council and also I think the last one is from a consultant um for the record Chris is here on Zoom Chris L valy and um the other six of us are here in the room um anyway so I think the first thing that I would like to do is kind of have people weigh in on if they had a chance to review these documents from the from the um original presentation of the overlay if they agree with or if we agree with um what the objectives were of the overlay still going forward um and if we agree with the objectives but we think that there may be some way to enhance it I'm not sure that we're necessarily single-handedly the ones to do that maybe we should in invoke the help of others but um if we wanted to accomplish some slightly different things what would they be than what has been accomplished and what the goals were okay my thought is I I think the the purpose for bod was a good one and uh I think what it needs more than anything is not major rework but a look at the things we were trying to accomplish given what you know three or four years of uh of experience have given us uh I mean when we first did it we talked a great deal about business amenities that was what was going to fill the park up I yeah we had other things in there too we had the uh some some uh housing and and other stuff and drive-throughs but the biggie seemed big part of the discussion seemed to be the business amenities now I'm not sure in retrospect that that was the biggest piece may maybe we should have put more time in some of the other pieces like you know detailing out some of the housing stuff I don't know but I think the basics are solid I think it's just uh I think what we need is [Applause] tweaks other people have other thoughts I mean when it when it was voted in I was not a sitting member of the planning board at the time my understanding it was to try to track Banks a dry cleaner restaurants I mean so far it's I mean we have the S one success with press but is I guess my question would be for Evan is Evan is there anything when you meet with property owners that you think's discouraging any more restaurants or like a bank going down I mean DCU has a corporate office but I don't believe there's a a retail banking fa um it's difficult to answer that question um there not as much um Proactive or um natural engagement as there used to be um maybe this property owners that aren't aware of the overlay on the other hand I I don't get I don't get calls inquiring about those types of uses so there could be a disconnect uh could be as simple as the property owners aren't um aren't willing or interested to make the necessary Capital Improvements to accommodate those types of uses press press took years in order to to get there yeah and press wanted to be there right so you know the notion the notion of a bank or a you know a personal service like a la matter or a salon I I just don't have the answers I don't retail is missing from this right retail retail is allowed under the overlay it's un allowed it is allowed yep so the you know the the notion was well you know could a convenience store would a convenience store uh go in there you have to you have to kind of remember the context um it was preo uh and since Co the the way the office Park worked is completely different that's why people think the buildings are vacant because the parking lots are vacant most of the buildings have viable businesses in them they're just using using the square footage entirely different yeah I think the uh if you look into the overlay and the details of in the PowerPoint I think a lot of the um vision and what we're trying to attract is spoton I think think the problem is is that it's all optional businesses can come in under that overlay or under the underlying zoning and if we've got a warehouse coming in there under the underlying zoning that's counter productive to what we're trying to do in the overlay so to me because this overlay is completely optional and people can businesses can come in under the underlying zoning there's no in inve for them to to add on the additional amenities and more expensive things like outdoor outdoor uh walkways and things like that there's absolutely no incentive for them to do it so of course they're going to go into the cheaper alternative of just building a box warehouse and that's what we're seeing that those are the project coming before us on 129 we're we're not seeing the high value businesses we're seeing the lower value businesses going in there and we are essentially approving them because we are what we're approving those projects we're approving the pro we approved the the 270 we approve we're um we've said that the the lower value business of the the trades offices are going in there and they're applicable under the the overlay oh I think that's completely different than a than a warehouse I think that's a a Redevelopment and a high value project that brings not brings vitality and amenities and high value project it's not a high value project those jobs are already existing there we had to push for an external amenity most of the amenities are internal to that building and if you look at the businesses that we're trying to attract with this overlay Advan manufacturing IT professional and Technical Services life science biotech and Pharma trades is actually not one of the high value businesses that we're trying to attract yes it's important that we need them but that's not what we're trying to attract in this overlay and so because there are no incentives because it's just an overlay and people can still go with the cheaper options that's what they're going to do and those are the projects that we're seeing well I mean essentially what you're saying is change the underlying zoning doesn't really have much to do with the overlay the way an overlay functions is by being optional giving flexibility because it lets us it lets us uh if you will make deals and Arrangements that otherwise we could not perhaps even could not legally make right but if we don't see the projects to begin with we can't take any de yeah if people don't come in and the the only way I could think of to guarantee that you not get the ones that you don't want is to eliminate them from the underlying zoning um and I'm not sure first of all uh with most of the property that's in there having something on it already uh you'd be in a a real morass of grandfathered make the requirement that the amenity come with it like there has to be some like again like the fact that this the trade thing you know but that stops being an overlay I get that but yeah like you know like whether I vote in favor of that we'll see depending on the project to be quite honest and you know I don't want to go down that specific one but like again with the intent of what we want this to be the Gateway we want it to look like um lynfield Marketplace or something like that that has a mi what is that like a mall I mean I looked at pictures of it could you keep talking about that oh it's it's beautiful it has Office Buildings it has restaurants it has is it like the one in Burlington where Wegman's is yeah no kind but it has like it has doctor's offices it has like it's there's residential up there well residential but there was but you get remember that's that was one owner for that entire lot up in lynfield and in Burlington all those properties were bought by one owner I get it so we have multiple owners here I get it and it's one at a time right right like yeah but they had a vision down there in Burlington had a vision and that one owner bought the property and then he created right but that took the planning board 20 years to get the right planning in there because if you remember they were struggling for a while low rise they were really struggling yep and they you know the planning board fixed that right like so again yes one order owner came in and bought stuff but that was because they fixed both of those projects were Market driven the private investor came to the town and said I need a resoning to make my vision work I wouldn't give Lindfield or Burlington credit for making those projects happen Market brought it to them and in Chums we don't have any market demand there is no there is no Market coming to the planning board saying I want to build a biotech I need resoning I want to build a a third AV light or a lynfield market light I need I need your help there is no market demand that's part that's part of that's part of the challenge with 129 is the original vision is almost obsolete based upon postco MH and then you layer on sore limitations the town's interest in solving P Market challenges sentiment about how we how we approach zoning and development those are all challenges to to to the market and so if you're an investor and you have you know $10 million to spend you're going to look at communities that are um have less challenges and are welcoming and open yeah I do think though the other piece of this too that's I think the fact that we have the housing in this right so those like I think we're going to see more housing projects come in as well okay so maybe we should think about what do we want there what would I mean I not that it's for us to decide because but I mean if if we were going to have a perfect world and we decided what we wanted there what would that be and then how could we try and drive that so like we talked about during the um MBTA zoning looking at already existing areas where there are structures in place and and maybe putting making them mixed use but here like if we could get de a developer to come in and um build some mixed use like the beehive in my opinion with retail restaurant whatever kind of services on the ground floor and housing on the second floor with amenities I mean to me it didn't have to be one huge giant lot that one owner owns I mean those that could happen peace meal in my opinion and still be a a meaningful Improvement in the utility of the space and and and I feel like if we I mean I I feel like what Evan's saying and and I think it's probably true um that you know this board um has approved a a few um development in Redevelopment projects but it's been very painstaking and and not necessarily welcoming to the to the developers and not that we want to be open arms to all developers but if we could figure out what we want and then trying to track the developers who might do that as opposed to just making it so odious to get to yes on every single project that I don't know I think we've already to find what we've what we want in this overlay the problem is is that the projects that are coming before us are not what we want in this overlay you're conf Chris you're you're confusing the the overlay the the overlay is not needed to bring in biotech life science those businesses can come in under underlying zoning so the they're not going to come in if we've got a warehouse right next door that's my point the market is speaking very clearly in in in in 2024 it was very different in 2016 in 2016 there was no talk within the marketplace of um warehouses in chumford there wasn't even the economics didn't even work to tear down an office building period the end it's literally taken almost a decade since 2016 for the first office building to propose to be demolished and something new built so if you look at the current market companies are requiring workers to come back to the office that's not in that's not necessarily in chumford you can't compare what's happening in Burlington or walam or wubin to chumford that 10 miles north up up route three is a world of difference always has been always has been and I'm not saying it's the same but what I'm also saying is that zoning is not going to attract the the businesses that we want marketing proactive Outreach additional programs and I mentioned this in the last the last meeting is that the zoning defines what we want it defines what we does what we don't want but it's not the mechanism to attract the businesses it's it's it's part of it once you the zoning serves a primary purpose within the marketplace where the market reads your zoning and assumes that what it says is what you want there's clearly a disconnect there the minimums of what we want well it it sends messages these are the types of uses some are by right some are by special permit you have overlays the overlays are optional and there's incentives carrots and sticks it's clearly a disconnect between what the zoning says and what the Comm what the planning board of community's uh desires and wishes are that needs to be text so similar to your citizen petition if there are uses or scales of uses that are completely non-starters the underlying zoning needs needs to reflect that that will that will clarify a lot of the mixed messaging that's going on once your zoning once your proper zoning is in place it still doesn't guarantee that the market agrees with it so you can then create programs marketing programs branding program and ultimately incentives tiffs or other things where the town puts it you know money where it mouth is but you still have to have a a market demand and a market interest and that has that has been and continues to be the challenge for 129 from a market perspective that some products are just not economically feasible or they businesses don't want to be in shum for various reasons then you're left with then you're left with once a once an opportunity comes to the town what does the town do with that opportunity and that's a whole other issue related to permitting challenges and messaging challenges and things of that nature so Soup To Nuts the town has um disconnects between what it actually says it wants within the zoning and then what it truly wants when it comes to permitting never mind visions and strategies and things of that nature but I can tell you that the marketplace is very confused and rightfully so based upon when you look at what transpired so from 2016 with the adoption of the overlays The Branding of marketing the town was doing uh within Regional uh events the economic development committee and then you look at what has transpired since 2016 incrementally all of those things have been dismantled and yet and yet we're still asking the same question we were asking in pre pre 2016 what do we want to do what do we want to do part of the confusion is that we've got underlying zoning at one extreme with warehousing and and Industrial and then an overlay on top of it at the Other Extreme and of course I can explain to you what why that was there was a strategic there was a strategic reason why uh the planning board and myself never went into the underlying zoning use table and changed anything the reason for that and again at the time warehousing wasn't wasn't on the radar screen like it was a couple years ago we we knew that 129 was diverse it always has been diverse it never had all its eggs in one basket like a lot of tech parks and that has served the 129 area really really well but it never had heavy heavy warehousing truck uses as the market has evolved and Chum has has faced certain certain challenges and new challenges that that is one market interest maybe that's waned you know since uh since the peak during covid um but but I encourage you know the you and the board and the community where there are non-starters such as your citizen petition that didn't eliminate the use but but regulated the scope and scale of those uses if there are other similar uses such as outdoor contractor yards and things of that nature that you just don't think are appropriate then we should go in and change the underlying zoning but I would caution the town prior to doing a market analysis such as what was done in in 2016 before you go in and and start uh making significant changes to the underlying use table you you have you better have a really good understanding as to what the market views you and how what the role of Chums is within the regional Marketplace because it very well could could turn out that the the vision of Biotech life sciences uh may never come to uh fruition once it's explained to us and then the marketplace has a very um very clear Vision as to how it views 129 none of that has ever been uh fully researched or vetted um I certainly think I have a good grasp on that um but we may need to bring in you know other subject matter experts to hear from you know Regional commercial brokers Property Owners invest like my concern for the town is creating zoning because it it sounds good and feels good doesn't doesn't solve the problem either the nice thing about the current use table is that it it's open to anything and everything Brad and many of those uses require a special permit and if the use doesn't require a special permit then anything over 20,000 Square ft requires a major business complex special permit so at least we can we can say confidently we are not missing any Market opportunities we're not picking winners and losers but because we have a major business complex special permit anything over 20,000 is going to have increased scrutiny that is that has served the town really really well the flip side is yeah you'll get projects that um are are uh controversial or not deemed to be appropriate location or appropriate scale and you have to deal with that accordingly so that to me that's what needs to be discussed recommendation cuz this one here is a really big project cuz I think we have to look at the area the underlining zoning I agree with ch this is just a beginning of a conversation I know but can I just make a recommendation for this particular one because I also think we need to look at the map of what this covers because remember this also goes into riverneck road which doesn't make any sense to be part of this whole thing can we take do this like on a separate day and really like kind of spend the time to like this is just the beginning of the conversation Anita we're not getting any any like zoning recommendations tonight I'm not saying we are but I just think like we're limited with time dedicated a dedicated like evening that that's all we're talking about right like and we kind of just really hash it out right like I also think there's more there's other stakeholders that would be appropriate to engage with on these questions and to Evan's point I think also I would like to hear from some of the property owners and some of the industry experts and some of the real estate brokers who have a better finger on the market and would could give us a bit of guidance and our own business development right that's well we don't have one anymore just starting but I think this yeah I mean she does make a presentation she did make a presentation regularly to the select board I'd love to see those numbers that we looked at and is she still with the town she's the Human Resources Director now oh she is okay okay yeah so we don't have a business development right okay um you know that I want to I I just want to jump in because this is way back to the beginning of what EV when Evan was talking at the very beginning Evan said first of all I agree with Evan's idea of bringing people in to to as we were to talk about so I agree with that totally but what Evan said was that there was a disconnect between this board's sort of Outlook or desire views or whatever and and this overlay at least that's what I understood you to say and all I've heard tonight is that the board sounds like they agree with the overlay so can we first establish do we agree that the board agrees with the idea of the overlay overall I I'm assuming that's what I've heard well I I refer to disconnect in the the context of Chris's comments that the overlay is designed to permit biotech life sciences and my point is the overlay you need the overlay for those businesses to move into 129 the only reason for the overlay is to permit the amenities retail restaurants Som residential residential and to make it more flexible right right so to Chris's point there is some Merit to the fact that big picture Vision strategy they can be working against one another on the other hand if the data suggests that we don't have a strong market demand to begin with then you're TR then I I think you're trying to use both um you know to to create improvements the challenge with the overlay is that most Property Owners aren't in a position to um transition or reposition their properties to those things as I mentioned Press Cafe was owned by a a Reit a national Reit and it took them two years of internal conversations to allow 2500 square fet to be converted to a non-office user and if so then if you look at other property owners down there that are locally owned and operated or Regional entities none of them have proactively called or inquired even though they know the Press is down there so it's all very puzzling to try to figure out what motivates a property owner down there what what what are their Returns on investment it seems like many of them are are okay with what they have and how it's going so it's all puzzling because we've got we've got the industrial underlying zoning and this is why I agree with the the the internal workings of that overlay but now what we're seeing is the market is driving towards cheap development and rent it out for high rents and the best way to do that is to put in a warehouse at low cost and rent it out at a high rent and of course the the developers are not going to put in all these amenities and things like that CU it's more expensive to develop yeah but Chris don't you think we've already somewhat addressed that problem with our town meeting no no still allow want to make it smaller no cuz it's still allowed on that that area like so I think we need to figure out like well we have size limitations currently do you want to make the size limitations put more smaller warehouses but it's still W it's still a warehouse that includes no amenities we haven't seen that you know again I think this is like this is yeah I think we need to dedicate a day like yeah I think all of us like I would like I think we should maybe go to the next one because I think that might be a little bit easier for us to like focus our time on and then this one we can maybe do a separate meting I think there's more setup stuff to take here uh to to say and uh well I don't know maybe maybe you're right maybe a full evening of this would would work but I'm I have some concerns here that we're trying to pretend that we can control the market well we have a little bit of control of the market over shortterm things like five years but unless we're willing to put a heck of a lot of money on the table and there I don't see a lot of billionaires see if we have that the market will sooner or later Force its way in and we should probably adjust ourselves more to uh letting the market letting the market make some of the determinations about what really happens over there and uh and just try to smooth it around the edges I it's a market-driven economy that's what we live in it' be nice to bring in maybe a professional that's um you know a large real estate broker in Boston or something see what is the vision that they see in the next 5 years think maybe we make some adjustments to this if we want to attract things within the next 5 years we don't want to miss the boat mhm no you don't want to miss or at least this boat but there'll be another boat afterwards it's just a decade of underuse another decade of underuse yeah um yeah I mean the another thing I thought was that there's a lot of mention in these about you know connectibility and bike trails and um walking trails and so I really think you know we brought it up briefly with the um beehive developer um um under applicability but I think that we should be thinking in terms of if these properties were to be all developed like what would be a decent way to implement some um Community amenities into the properties that everyone along the line could use um and maybe the town could also get some grant money to help right develop green spaces or whatever within those within those those confines of the structures I don't know um okay well it's 7:00 and um we didn't get to Kate's corner so should we do um Kate's Corner next time and maybe um try and come back to this should we we should do like the work sessions on like remember we like I remember when I first started we did work sessions like non-televised we did it we had more flexibility on nights that we could do a work session you mean separate from a meeting yeah to do for like if we want to address this 129 um we did a we did sometimes to them on the off Wednesday okay I was just I mean I just feel like I think lately we've been pretty bogged down with major things that have made for long meetings that to add on additional I mean I mean I don't know if people are interested in doing that I'm perfectly happy to do that um I can't do it the first weekend of November I think we have to do more separate meetings because we can't get anything done in 15 minutes on well we could also make it go the other meeting start at 7:30 and so have 6:30 to 7:30 but it just it just makes this meeting really long or 6 if you're I can't make it here before 56 like yeah I mean in past the board has used dedicated work sessions or started or did a 63 to8 work session and then did regulatory business yeah yeah I mean I'd be fine with that if we can limit the hearings after that or maybe we could do the first weekend in December yeah like the first Wednesday in December could people do or even on like a different night if we can't like if I think Wednesdays because people are kind of have have the habit of having the meeting and having it open I don't know for me it works better than other nights cuz I have other things other nights and then maybe we can bring like someone in or at least yeah someone that doesn't have interest right now that has business in front of them right yeah or or people that you know in your networks yeah just general subject matter experts right yeah like a but like a true kind of like work session versus yeah yeah well you had penciled in November 20th if needed and December 18th if needed I do have one applicant who um would would like to um a regulatory matter uh submit for November 20th if you're going to have that meeting okay if you choose to meet on November 20th maybe we can dedicate most of that meeting or all of it with the exception of that one regulatory item yeah we could do that we couldn't do it we couldn't do that on the 13th I depends on how much you continue this evening plus payet may be back on the 13th yep I know I know that the 20th we we we can restrict we don't we don't have to continue any um current business to the 20th and accommodate that that one new item are we talking about November 20th yes okay I'd rather honestly I'd rather just keep it to just the work session I I can't hear you I'd rather just keep it to the work session I think we would get a lot more done okay if we have other things so so you want to do December 18th as a work session why not November if we can let's see if we can move that regulatory let's see where we are are today let's go through the meeting and see where we are with see how it works and we can move that other regulatory up fa okay all right so it being after 7 o'cl apologize for the Chari start we're going to start with the general planning board meeting first up is public input um just as a reminder these meetings are televised live and also recorded and available later on Demand by Cher tele media and if the meeting um the meeting is conducted in person and remotely as a courtesy and um should the remote access go down we would do our best to make it um returned but if not we would continue the live meeting um so next up is public input which shall be limited to statements from the public relating to issues within the jurisdiction of the planning board but that are not currently the subject of a pending public hearing before the board public comment on any pending public hearings shall only be heard during such public hearings um so is is there anyone who wants to speak hi dur J Precinct 9 I'm not sure what what you just said meant so I'm going to ask am I able to speak about the bod overlay about the b o b aod overlay yes yes okay um the only thing that I want to say is I mean you guys keep talking about multif family housing going in there we Chums is at its peak we're building a new school a Parker school if you keep talking about putting more housing in you're going to outdate the school before ground's even broken you got to start thinking about the future like what's going to happen with the schools with the seage with the water stuff like that you got to stop thinking about building apartments and bringing more children I mean I love kids don't get me wrong but we got to start thinking seriously about what our capacity is what we can do what we can hold what we can you know what we can accommodate all right we've got a new we're talking about building a new school okay we've got we're getting plans for that new school now we're going to have these plans for this new school and before Brown's even broken that school's going to be outdated if we keep building we can't do that we need to realize it's time to put the stopper on it I agree with having industry having um the the stores the doctor offices the you know then all of that stuff that that's a great idea to bring that to Chum because it would you know it would build up 129 and make it look nice and I agree with that we'll also bring some traffic which is kind of a e but I I mean we definitely need to get something done on 129 and I definitely applaud you for all the effort that you're putting in to try to bring businesses in I know it's hard businesses aren't being attracted to Chumps with for some reasoning I have no idea why because I think chs's a great town and if I had money to build a business I would come to chumford cuz I think chumford is a great town and there's a lot of great people in it and you know I don't understand why we're not attracting businesses and I know you're trying hard I know you are and I know you're doing a great job but please think about when you're talking about multif family housing and stuff like that it kind of scares me it EES me because I don't want to and I don't want to be placed out of chumford I mean if we keep doing this and our taxes keep going up and up and up and up I'm going to have to move you know and I don't want to move I like jums okay so please just think about it thank you is there anyone else who wants to speak okay seeing none we have first the myars that's just a signing correct I need a motion to uh endorse those myars move to endorse will endorse them second I second okay second from Chris motion by Mike risbeck all in favor I I I Okay I uh it's unanimous including Chris on the zoom next up we have 15 Research Place a minor site plan review good evening uh Madam chair members of the board for the record Brian melissi with uh Haley Ward Incorporated here uh requesting the board would give us a minor site plan review for 15 Research Place here with me today out in the audience is uh Mike Milano who's the owner's representative and uh Christopher clar who is the owner of picad construction who will be the contractor on the project uh what's up there on the screen is a portion of the site plan that was submitted as part of the uh of the submitt package what we what the the minor site plan approval itself includes a small two do loading dock retrofit to the existing building at 15 Research Place it's 25 ft by 30 ft uh for a total of 750 square ft um it's going on the North the Northerly corner of the building as shown right there um as stated in the narrative I can read that out loud if you'd like but we did include a narrative uh there's a total of 16 parking spaces that will be affected due to the loading and its placement in the ramp down to the loading dock uh but we also provided a parking calculation there's 135 existing spaces on site uh once we remove the 16 that leaves 119 spaces and it's ample uh for the for the use of the building uh that's going to come in there are five existing uh handicap spots out into the front they will not be affected so therefore we still meet the uh we meet the code for handicap spaces did you have a plan of the entire site I do not okay no uh we did as part of our due diligence we were able to get a copy of the original site plan uh back in the late 19 1900s 1990s uh it was the old linear Technology Building that went in uh we were to verify there was not an asbill plan but we were able to verify that most of the amenities shown on that plan were indeed constructed uh we don't have to um revise or or otherwise touch any of the water services any of the sewer Services uh we do add a drain which is shown on the site plan that's on the screen just to uh pick up any of the storm water runoff that runs into the dock area and we connect that into the existing existing drainage system um I did receive comments from departments I don't know if you'd like me to go over those typically you guys like to read those into the record um we can do whatever you'd like but it's a a fairly fairly benign proposal and I know it was quick but I'd be to answer any questions anyone have any questions for the applicant Brian you mentioned that the parking's adequate for the use coming in what is the use coming in so as explained in the narrative uh the use coming in is a computer it renovator a refurbisher and a renovator um they take in old computers and Mike Milano's here to if if I do say anything wrong he's going to throw some at me and get up here and explain the right way to do it uh but it's an IT refurbisher they're going to take old it laptop uh things like that break them down refurbish them and then resell them and so the breakdown in use it's a the existing buildings 30,000 ft 29900 some chains uh it'll be roughly broken down at about 7500 ft of office space and 22,500 ft of of warehouse space and how many proposed employees approximately about 30 employees okay uh I probably should add that on the plan we also included a sewer note um a what a sewer note a sewer use note for the new use uh for the breaking down the office space in the employee space per Title 5 calculations and I do believe engineering covers in some of their comments great thank you are there any um what what what kinds of What kinds of things are expected to be delivered to the loading dock that would be different than what is currently either delivered or maintained there so there is no loaning dock now um so the building is being retrofitted with a loading dock and it's really just going to be the uh you know the chassis and the and the the old it equipment that needs to be refurbished will be coming in the newer refurbished equipment will be going out okay so nothing that would make it qualify it as a lple for the storm water no okay no again in my narrative um the business that's coming in has all sorts of these ISO certifications which are a little bit above me if you wanted me to invite Michael up here to talk about some of those certifications they can uh but some of that information is in that narrative they are um they are you know looked at every year uh in order to keep up those certifications and whatnot so it is not a hazardous waste or a special waste type of business it's literally refurbishing the equipment and then send that back out okay okay and can you just talk through the the drainage your your contribution to the if eving of the plan so in order to excuse me in order to create uh the 4 foot or the 48 in height for the loading dock um if I may come up to the screen please view uh what we do this is the existing edge of the building here we are going to regrade this area here such that there'll be a ramp coming down so that when the truck sits there it's at that 4ft loading dock height and because we're creating that low area those storm water would collect here so we have a trench drain milon hole and then we connect that into the existing drain line okay there was no increase in a perious area uh this is all Paving here anyways we do take a landscaped Island here and move it and we take this landscape Island here and revise it to this location such a truck will come in okay and then that that uh shaded area that's on the bottom so this is just an area of some uh some additional pavement just to provide a little bit more maneuverability for truck to be able to just come in you might be able a smaller chart could come in and go back in one motion rather than have to turn it around and does that does that affect the current screening Landscaping so if you want to go just a scroll just a little bit up there is a a row of our robes here um so we are going to have to cut into those a little bit but they they will be replanted here okay but you still you still need any required setbacks as far as Landscaping goes for the property okay all right thank you so I'm certainly not an expert on this sort of thing but um my understanding is that when you take apart computers that there's some heavy metals involved and so um I I guess you're presumably trying to maintain those and for re you know for because they're they have value but and there wouldn't be any risk of leakage or spillage or contamination of anything Michael you got can you come MCE yourself sorry no they're just dismantled there's no breaking of anything inside the computer or inside inside can we have your name whatever it equipment is being broken down are cards and what they do is once they're sorted they separate them they're all go into different bins they then get tested and in some cases rebuilt in some cases just sold as Parts I see so it's a it's a great business we need the name we need the name for the minutes what's just tell me Michael Milano okay and with with with whom are you uh New England Real Estate Services I represent um RB rrb real estate who's the owner okay thank you um I've got a few questions um where is the breakdown of the computers going to happen in the office space or the warehouse space us to sit up here where do the breakdown of the of the computers happen in the warehouse space or the office yes strictly in the warehouse space which is it Warehouse or office space warehouse warehouse so just for some housekeeping of our documentation um based on our current definition of Warehouse that technically wouldn't be a warehouse anymore it' be really light manufacturing space so just to keep documentation clean it might be good to update the plan and the um the narrative to be a little bit more uh light manufacturing instead of warehouse space or light manufacturing and warehouse space maybe yeah I think that's a better description because a lot of it is stored there for a long period of time um the other thing I noticed in the narrative that you have um parking documented at one per 250 I think Square ft and I think for um for that space it would be 1 per 200 square ft so if we if you could correct that I apologize we can do that okay thanks and then on for the loading dock can you bring up the um schematic where does that loading dot go into is it the office it looks like it's the office space on your plans no there's no there's double doors there that lead into what used to be um lab space um and that is going to be used as our warehouse and breakdown space okay all right and then you mentioned two bays but I'm seeing three garage doors on there two three yeah one two three this is just an Overhead Door this is the loading dock area here two loading docks this is just an atg grade door what would that be used for um probably a van pickup or delivery yeah if it's something like FedEx or whatever that doesn't have truck dock capability okay so it's essentially a a loading dock for three vehicles and if you have a van would that block the parking spaces that are right in front of that garage door if there was a van park there for any for any period length of time it very well could um lock these three spaces here as that door would be here um okay on the sweat path analysis I am also noticing that the only way that that truck can get in there is to go into two parking spaces so if that's actually going to be used for a loading dock my recommendation would be to not allow parking in those two spaces we can yep we can uh hatch that out okay and then the other concern I have is you're not showing snow storage on here um so snow storage should be indicated as to where that would be um and if it's going to be taking up parking spaces we can add that where's the existing snow space I mean this this is not a new building correct no it's it's around they must already have snow right Chris they must already have locations for I would assume so but depending on where they're putting it that may hinder additional spaces or trucks now we're reconfiguring the parking so if they're reconfiguring the parking they need to show where the we can show that yeah just to make some more and then I'm also seeing that it the truck is going over the curb in two spots it looks like um on North Road and then I think on Research Place so that's just the overhang of the truck the actual wheel path stays within the pavement okay yeah and so what we do is we just wanted to show that the the existing erress can handle that and he comes in okay in the front of the truck will overhang that as he pulls his maneuver his backup maneuver into the loading car so and also this building's not actually on North Road right there's a hedge and it's it's actually on Research Place right so they wouldn't drive on North Road cuz they're pretty far back from it there's no eress from North Road right it's all from Research Place no but the truck does overhang on that side of the parking lot Y and I think Joel mentioned it but it'd be good to have a little bit more um if you're taking out arbores if you're able to put a little bit more back in sure in in places think that's all I've got pretty light for you Chris pretty light for you said that wasn't me that said that no no it was me okay should we read the letters sure so we have uh let's see North trumpster Water District No concerns dated 10824 uh we had two we had a letter and then a subsequent email from fire uh Fire Department cap captain of Josh Abbott we had an email dated October 21st 20 2024 saying uh thanks for the phone call and explanation of the site modifications currently the fire prevention office has no concerns with site access as the Ingress egress have not changed uh let's see B of Health uh no concerns dated October 7th 2024 Police Department no concerns dated October 8th 2024 and then Public Works uh from Project engineer Sheila Joyce uh there were numerous let's see there's number of comments um regarding sore no increase the town of chumford sore infrastructure uh stating what stating all the soy usage uh regulations um I'm just paraphrasing here a clearly labeled and prominently displayed spill kit should be present at the loading dock uh recommended General conditions of approval uh regarding all storm water practices be followed uh sedimentation control VI devices within the town's right away erosion controls all handicap signs must meet the requirements it states those applicant site contractor must schedule a pre-construction meeting with DPW engineering Pride of the start of work and a trench permit shall be obtained from DPW for the work described and Al so Treasurer's Office no concerns I believe that's all um okay is there any uh further questions or comments for the applicant and this being oh it's an administrative review so we don't have public um not required yeah public input required but we're able to offer it if we feel so compelled did you have another question Mike no I was just going to ask uh Brian just on the swep swept analysis why is the truck turning around this is just my own knowledge here there's a parking lot in the back side of this that continues around the back where the truck could turn around in that area why is that not shown why is that is it the fire department that choses that it turns around right up front NOP that was us we just didn't want to have to if you to go out if I if I did show the entire site um right why wouldn't they go all the way in the back and then come around that triangle way around the WB 62 has a little bit of trouble coming all the way around there okay so smaller trucks could do that um but we we showed that the better sweat path was just to move that island and keep everything right there do it right in the front okay I just didn't know if that was a requirement by the town or nope no okay great thank you sorry is there anyone from the public that would like to comment on this minor site plan review okay um hearing none um take a motion make a motion oh make a motion to approve the uh minor site plan review with the items um Chris listed previously I'll gladly second the the snow storage I had revised the narrative to include light manufacturing and warehousing hatch out a couple spaces to accommodate the sweat path analysis show snow storage um show the relocation or new arites um and change the parking calc parking calculation based upon the correct ratio so with those changes to the parking parking Etc will there still be adequate parking there will be okay all right um motion by Anita second second by Mike RB yeah and I had just one question oh sorry for is that is do I vote as associate member do I vote on a site plan review even though we're missing a member I don't I don't recall the specifics of the uh Chris you Rec protocols don't recall but I think we had said you do oh okay I thought it was not but well you know I'm not sure that's going to be crucial to yeah I why don't we let him vote and if somebody okay all right so all in favor I I I I an I from Chris in the peanut gallery so that's 7 to zero um next up we have new public hearing 321 thank you for your time thanks Brian thank you Brian um Bill Ricker Road um Clover Behavioral Health requesting to obtain a special permit per section 195-211 to operate a medical clinic and any other zoning relief deemed necessary the site is located in the Ia zoning district and is identified as parcel ID map 87 block 328 Lot 4 hi uh good evening everyone my name is Jonathan Penna I'm a representative of clover Behavioral Health and yes um I'm here to request a special permit for a medical clinic uh more specifically to operate Mental Health Services um to kind of give a brief explanation of what this special permit would allow us to do and the license it would allow us to obtain is to Pro provide clinical and medical services for those diagnosed with primary mental health disorders um the way in which we provide services for these individuals is individual counseling on a weekly basis group counseling on a daily basis and we also have psychiatric nurse practitioners and a medical doctor um for any patients who may need those Services as well um we typically operate between the hours of regular business hours 9:00 to 5 Monday through Friday and we hopefully one day will operate an evening program for anyone who may be uh in school or at work and still wishes to engage in these Services uh typical diagnosis is that we would be treating depression anxiety trauma disorders bipolar disorders and we have some pretty I would say stringent requirements as to who is appropriate for our level of care and how we go about making sure someone is appropriate to admit to our program um we have medical and clinical reviews to make sure that a person is stable and appropriate to be in an outpatient level of care uh couple important points I think just be you know kind of put out there that uh we do not dispense or distribute medications of any kind uh we can prescribe but that is done in the same practice uh as a primary care physician would do U handled that a pharmacy Etc uh patients do not live or are lodged boarded in any fashion at the facility and um everyone who engages in our program is pre-screened enrolled and scheduled accordingly it's not kind of a open Clinic free-for-all anyone can kind of show up at any time and engage in any fashion that they want um so that's kind of the general basis of what we're here to do what we'd like to do and the services we'd really like to bring to the town okay anyone have any questions for the applicant I've got one question couple questions um the first question is is is this a new tenant going in or current tenant looking at to add additional services so uh best way to answer that is actually kind of a little bit of both so I am a new tenant in this building uh one of the services we wish to offer which is the mental health side of our services requires us to be licensed as a clinic therefore for the one license that we need we have to be registered as a mental health clinic um there are other counseling services that we offer for other kind of basic needs that would qualify us as a medical office space uh me and Evan and Jose probably exchanged 35 emails trying to drill down on exactly what this is because obviously licensing with dph can you know you can get in the weed so I think I hope that answers your question yeah so you are you're a current tenant but a new tenant yes so we we yes we're we're we're in there now we're Staffing up getting ready to provide the services we can and then obviously if this special permit goes through we will then submit a application for this license as well that would come later down the line okay so then Evan my question is probably my next question is probably to you because the DPW letter if I read it correctly um was related to essentially an assumption that there are going to be no additional staff or patients for sewer I'm trying to remember where I read that I I think I may be able to provide some clarity because I did review uh all of the comments that were submitted by all of the um departments so the in my narrative um the amount of people enrolled in our program and staff assumes all the license that we will have we are currently not seeing patients at the moment we have some services that we can start with right away this particular service will take us more time to acquire the license and of course I need the special permit granted from you guys so as of today the business is not open it will be open soon with limited services that are allowed by right and then this service will then become allowed that I can apply for at a later date and add this line of service to our business so the estimate the estimate that I gave around you know 40 people including staff at any given time is assuming all services and all licenses are operating as normally and um in reference to some of those comments 500 gallons per day is you know I don't think we'll even come close to that we just you know just bathroom handwashing Etc and if we do um happy to pay any fine or address that in any way I need to but um not you know we don't need any major medical equipment or anything like that okay and then Evan a question for you on the parking calculations if I'm reading that table correctly the total parking spaces is 258 and with this Clinic it would be a 232 being used and then the two vacant spaces or two vacant um lot uh Bays would be left with 26 spaces in the calculations that's yeah I mean that's probably the best way to interpret this um that table as I understand it is based upon requirements yeah um so if in this property down the road those two bays become occupied and require more parking they would have to come back to us then right technically if if the calculations continue you're correct it would be deemed that the site would be underp parked and that would require a special permit from the planning board okay all right thanks can you um Talk us through the floor plan as far as how people access and and leave and and what the flow is through the through the floor absolutely step over here yes please this is the primary entrance that will be used um so this is on the back side of the building the building has two primary entrances um this is going to be just a common waiting area we have a desk set up Etc these will be our two group rooms they can comfortably fit about 10 to 15 people including a therapist and then these remaining offices will be used for Primary Therapy and counseling um you know some of them have glass so we've put up um kind of curtains blinds to protect patient privacy and then this kitchenet is just a sink and we're going to put a refrigerator in there you know we we like to provide lunch drinks Etc make it a comfortable experience for everybody okay and about how many people can are you planning on seating in your lobby um oh the the lobby is just going to be for patient intake so you know uh one at a time they're scheduled accordingly we try to break that scheduling up up you know we typically admit one to two people at most a day and that's that's if we're extremely busy and the intake takes about 45 minutes because we've pre-screened them before they came to the facility so everyone completes a phone assessment to make sure that we are an appropriate service for them um and then you know if something's going on a clinician's busy or in a therapy session the individual will wait in the lobby until that therapist clinician is free to finish the intake okay yeah all right thank you any other questions about the floor plan one over here okay so the people from the going to the group I'm sorry would be just going straight in yes so if they're enrolled in the program and um they're scheduled for groups during that day because you know it's typically about three days a week they'll attend for each individual um they'll show up they'll check in with reception hey you know John Doe I'm here for my services and they'll all uh head into the group as appropriate yep and they're scheduled in each group room depending on the specific groups that are being done that day I'll step back to the mic the specific groups that are being done that day in accordance with their treatment plan so we offer a variety of different groups life skill life skill building education Clinical Services um so it's done with their treatment plan great yep thank you very much sure um guess we'll open it up see if anyone has if we're done with our questions I'll see if anyone from the um gallery has any thoughts or questions or concerns or on Zoom I do have a letter from some residents of the town if I could read that this be the appropriate time to read that into the record sure okay um just it's a letter of support that I just wanted to read so um it's from David Harmon Nathan Harmon and Raymond mccusker um we're excited to express our unwavering support for Clover Behavioral Health Els incorporation into our community we acknowledge the Paramount importance of the service they seek to provide for the well-being of our neighbors and communities we firmly believe that these Services would be a valuable addition to our town and we are delighted to lend our support to this endeavor we have confidence in the integrity and benevolence of the Project's Founders and we am confident that they will dedicate themselves to the betterment of our community and I printed copies if they're needed so thank you yeah we should get a copy into the record I'll take sure [Applause] okay is there anyone else who has a comment at all seeing none um I'll take a motion we have to open a public hearing don't we I just she just open there CL okay then close the public move to close the public hearing second okay all in favor I including Chris unanimous um Evan you kept one of those letters for the file yeah yes okay um now I will take a motion I would uh move that we uh Grant the uh special permit do you want to do departmental letters into the record or is that not required I don't think anything's Char um are there any that have any uh let's see we kind of went over Public Works is just um it says no s comments from um project engineer Sheila Joyce no s calcul s calculations were submitted confirm that the physical footprint of the clinic is not changing mental health clinic to medical office or Center is for lure but number of employees and clients on site is not changing the DPW shall monitor en Force sflow limitations and impose penalties for violations thereof in accordance with the town sewer policy and everybody else was no comment right y yes and then Jose Jose Negron Building Commissioner Mr Peña please be advised that if your should your business here in in regards be approved by the planning board you need to meet minimum standard requirements of the building code also a change of use maintain use inspection will be required by the building department Jose NE gron all other those with no no concerns or no comments okay I'll take a motion I will move that we Grant the uh special permit per 1955 second okay move move by Mike risbeck second by Anita all in favor I unanimous including Chris on Zoom okay thank you I'll set I'll thank you guys thank you thank you good luck thanks for coming down you next up we have 10 Independence Drive looking to obtain a special permit per section 955 use table line d37 to operate an adult daycare facility and any other zoning relief deemed necessary the property is located in the CD zoning district and is identified as partiel ID map 6 62 block 295 2 someone did good evening excuse me good evening Madam chair members of the board uh my name is Adam Costa I'm an attorney with the firm of me talerman and Costa as you can hear I've got a bit of laryngitis this evening not ideal in this line of work so I apologize but uh the good news is you're not going to hear much from me I'm going to make a a brief introduction of the project and then I'm going to hand it over to the project engineer to sort of walk you through the the plans that we've submitted so um asuk Patel um who is the principal of the LLC that is named as the applicant is here with me this evening um hushi afar who is with Taj engineering is also with me this evening and he'll present the plans momentarily uh this is a proposal for a portion of the 10 Independence Drive property those of you who have been around for a while uh probably most of you know this site is the old Rison Hotel Site uh portions of the site have uh previously or are currently under Redevelopment for hotel uses uh but there is a portion of the site known as building three we'll get to that you can see it on your screen uh it's in the middle there it's shaded a darker uh color gray uh that's known as building three that's the portion of the site that uh is before you this evening um I will uh note this now because I did see it in uh one or two of the departmental comments there is a reference on the plan to the potential for residential units on the second story of this building three that is not something we're currently proposing um this proposal is simply for redevelopment of uh the building for an adult daycare use um a bit of context here this is a proposal that has been something that has been in the discussion phase for the better part of a couple of years now um we were a bit confused first and we spoke with your former Town Council because we reviewed your your use table and your use table seemed to prohibit adult daycare in The General commercial or the CD District which is where this property is located uh as we dug a bit deeper we saw that it had just a few years ago not been prohibited and so when we did a bit of research we found that when your zoning bylaw was recodified uh presumably an error um this was a deemed a prohibited use in the CD District even though it had previously been allowed when uh your bylaw went through the conversion from sort of the narrative format to a table of use regulations so this came back before town meeting I think it was last spring or last fall uh as an amendment that passed I think it was unanimous at town meeting to add this as a special permit use back into the table uh and so with that permission we're now before you asking for the the special permit for the use um I'm not going to get into the particulars just yet although I'm happy to address them after who she walked through the plan uh but I've reviewed all the departmental comments a few Department had no comment um but a few had recommended conditions or requested adjustments to the plan and we're certainly prepared to address those and really don't have any objection to the suggestions made by your various departments but uh with that I'm going to get hushi uh to the podium so he can sort of walk you through uh the the site plans that have been submitted as well as the the floor plan showing how we intend to to redesign and redevelop the interior of the building good evening Madame chair and board members my name is hman daar from Taj engineering LC here in town the um like U attorney kaso mentioned uh this used to be the old Radison hotel that you know I'm sure almost all of us who live here in town had some kind of function in there and use the ballrooms I did for my son's uh uh what rehearsal dinner exactly where the adult daycare is being proposed so the as you know the the entire building including the uh Holiday Inn all the way to the east this was all one building connected uh with a passageway walkway a few years ago we went through uh what you see on the all the way most easterly side of the parcel which is holiday in now and the new franchise holiday in took place uh the new building was uh uh renovated to what you see right now the sign we went through all that process and the S and the site also got uh refurbished and the drainage system got cleaned up and so on and so forth basically in terms of site work that is exactly what's going to happen right now to the central and Westerly what we call building Radison uh holiday in we call building two because that was created and now we are calling the West Deli side which is all the guest rooms of the hotel which is going to be a Hilton franchise uh building one and the ballrooms which is hashed is going to be we just called it for sake of conversation building tree um so the ballrooms on the first floor only are being converted to the adult daycare and uh after um once we came to know that yes zoning uh allows to do that uh we followed per the code the main code being mainly the um uh CMR U 105 CMR Mass Department of Public Health which controls the adult Aces and then the state plumbing code and then architectural access board uh we uh did the alteration of the uh interior of the uh first floor to convert it into a adult daycare before we move to the next page um if I can uh come to that board the main axis will be right here where this ramp is and uh coming in on the floor plan you will see that it has got its own independent access totally separate from the hotel and the guest guest rooms and then there is another ramp here new ramp here that comes in here and enters into the uh this first floor where the adult daycare is and also this set of stairs that goes to the same door and of course on the first floor you will see that there are some other areas that you can access igress way through the back uh um if you want to talk about uh parking before we move to the floor plan the this is a daycare facility the the residents will be uh dropped in dropped in in the morning and picked up in the afternoon uh so right now right in front of the daycare area we have allocated five Vans a handicap location for five full-size Vans and then overall there are at least 25 um spaces allowed for the daycare um I would like to add at this point that the uh Radison Hotel Ballroom first floor and second floor had almost a capacity of almost 500 people 500 guests for the ballrooms over 300 for the first floor and about 200 on the second floor the total number of residents again according to the um uh requirements of the Department of Public he and the regulations the total maximum number of residents that we can have for the adult dayc carees is 150 people the requirement is 50 square foot of floor area per resident so we have 7,500 square foot of uh floor area allocated to the to the adult daycare so with that I mean if you if you want to go back to the parking we have plenty of parking at this side I mean every every room the only the only correction on your side plan is that when initially we were preparing this uh we were told the architectural drawings were in the process of preparation for the hotel building one from here to here the hand rooms so we assume 100 parkings for 100 guest rooms but later on when the plans were completed it was only 90 rooms so we have t 10 parking spaces available there and also at the end of parking lot here parking has never been a problem never on this on this on this side uh if you at the end of here we had about 43 here from here down additional parking the total is about 43 more spaces additional Reserve D or it's available anyway for any use uh where it needs be and of course holiday in has own its own area and parking and it's all set and done and it's running functioning without any problem um these are the details for the access uh ramp on the side on the east side of the building too and we can go to the floor area now if you may so the adult daycare is basically from here this hatched area here this area here and here this is the separate entrance that is completely separated from rest of the hotel and has got nothing to do each other the grand stairs will be removed this partition between the ballroom and the front foyer will be removed an open space so all the residents can mingle there are the this is is the nurses office again Department of um public health is U once everything is done uh we get your approval and so on so forth everything is built built they have to come and inspect and approve in order to issue the license sure so so this this this will be all glass wall so the nurses can see the residents uh we have an admin office part of the daycare all the plumbing all the bathrooms uh handicapped and so on so forth It's shown shown on the plan um herther again architectural access code and requirements on both sides for easy access of the residents uh these are all the people obviously so and the the other axis we said this was the main one this is the other one coming from here and the ramp here and through and and here and there are these doors here also in the back uh that can get into this hallway go down the stairs to the back or come here and go down the stairs again to this side of the building um they using the rooms the the other plan is the details of the bathrooms and showers which means again the regulations and this is the ESS plan that shows the um how in case of emergency all the axis and ESS will work and um it's all all the calculations is shown so with that I'll be more than happy to answer any question if I can anyone have any questions I don't that's no the only the only thing I I mean we're not really changing any of the layout right now of the parking in the entrance way it looks like it's pretty existing cuz that's I'm sorry I forgot to mention the drainage pattern will not change uh the degrades nothing in terms of it it be resurfaced the yeah the re the parking lot right now and the way it flows is the way is existing today that's correct so how is that going to work when the hotel does come back full functioning with your shuttle buses and drop off that's I just see at the end of the cesac there a little bit of a moving around that it's just not very clear on how that flow is going to work because I've seen it before with the hotel in full function with function going on there it was so it seems like it's just not being improved by this new F by this new use the the right now the maximum required which is actually on the uh conservative side in terms of we are proposing more than what we need right uh these are four these four are for the adult they care for the Vans yeah then we have the 12 and this nine for the adult daycare the rest is all for the hotel yeah I understand the the point that you're going have adequate parking cuz people going to be shuttle bused in then and and shuttled in it's just that when you come in that main entrance there yes it's the same entrance as the hotel entrance that's how people flow in they turn to the left you're going to be the first door on the right and then they're the second door Under The Canopy are you talking about this on this off the circle yeah straight in off the circle mhm people are going to come in that way and then you're going to drop off right there at that that doorway okay yeah yeah right yep right there okay and then you're just going to then the people entering the hotel are more to your left keep going down right there so what separates the hotel separation versus the the driveway for the hotel and the driveway for the uh I mean if if it's needed for the adult daycare there is no separation really needed because these are drop off park and go back pick up and leave the site the the uh guests can come drop off whatever and then go park anywhere they want okay and the hotel is not in use now right there not in use the hotel is under renovation ready it's under renovation yeah the co did it to all of us so follow up on Mike's questions um will this adult daycare have uh dedicated Vans a fleet of Vans or is it going to be um external transport Vans no it will be add dedicated Vans probably with the name of the um facility printed on them and so on and so forth assuming that that that all of the residents will be dropped will be need this pick up and drop off some of them could be very well the experience has shown uh some of them the family members come drop them off and go they don't even stay onite so my question is how many vans in the fleet and if those take up the three spots where are the families going to park families they don't need to park for drop off they said drop off so the folks in the adult daycare don't need any assistance getting from that walkway into the entry they will be dropped off right here at the main entrance where the ramp is and then the employees from there on will help them to go in the drop off and the and the and the pick up is a certain time so the the the facility is is is assisting with that okay so the employees assist with getting right the participants from the car to in side it's not the family members exactly some of them could be handicapped wheelchair they need to be pushed okay kind of like the preschool well that's that's what I said and my actually preschool parents bring the kids in and that's my concern is that you're going to have a lot of congestion of Park cars there um or you're going to have people parking way far away in having to cross significant Lanes of traffic I Dro mine at the door drop on throw them out and run well along those lines is is there a strip there where essentially that's for drop off in other words it's a designated area for drop off okay right here in front we have this that hashed area there exactly okay that's for drop off okay and it's moving it's moving it's not you want to drop off your old dad and go to work [Laughter] and but that hash Lane's going right under the the direction is right under the hotel canopy no it will stop somewhere here in the worst case but again I mean there might be uh there will be a queue here but it's going to flow I don't know I I've got some significant concerns about the traffic flow in this market what it's working in um Dr in a more conest that in a more smaller I should say parking space and they come and go um actually my question is who is the app like what daycare company is going in here I can find that do you have a name for this actually name right now just get in the pool and then build be a whole campaign behind the name and design okay no name yet it we come up the name if you build it they'll come okay so if that's the case then I've got even more concerns about this because the adult daycare that I'm seeing on uh brickk Road their parking lot I've driven by during drop off and it's quite congested um they've got a significant amount of vans in that Fleet um they've got other cars in there with staff and I can't imagine that volume going in and out of this space with the hotel in full use we we believe it potentially like to see some reconfiguration of this parking lot like one way well the employees parking can there is so much extra space at the other end of the parking parking area parking lot that employees can park as far as they want I'm not concerned about the employees I'm concerned about the amount of so in so in the parking lot you've got parking spaces labeled as ADC are those going to be dedicated spots those specific spots for the the adult daycare yes is that just for the count in general that is 25 spaces for the adult daycare will they have signs will there be signage I'm over here are they is there going to be signage indicating that that it's dedicated to the adult day oh yes of course and there other handicap spots for the hotel well not just handicap but that it's a sign that says for adult daycare only or something like that yes yes they will be very very well designated the handicapped SPAC is also uh for the hotel there are a whole bunch in the back M uh that they can easily come from the the raare raare access I mean I'm looking at the nine adult daycare spots um just above where the Evans curse there is and you're going to have people parking there walking across depending on when checkin checkout time is for the hotels you're going to have people walking across a lot of traffic potentially they are mainly for employees they Park and they if I'm talking more about the drop off for participants in the program a shook Patel with the application um typically if if I mean everybody's been to a hotel the normal guest check-in time is anywhere between 3:00 onwards to at as late as 9 10:00 so for 91 or 92 room hotel that we have you're going to have a very big span of check-in time so nobody comes like not all 90 people come in at 5:00 or 6:00 or 7:00 right that's that's a typical traffic law so there's really zero issue in terms of when the guest arrive for the hotel site in the morning people leave at all different hours so check out times typically 11: but breakfast is between 6:00 and 10: right so people are leaving all different hours also they're not all leaving at six or seven or eight or nine right so I think the the complimentary use that this building has versus the hotel flow and the hotel traffic is actually a perfect match there's no real overlap of heavy usage of any of the parking or any of the areas that are designated on the site plan um I mean you you couldn't have a better complimentary use so there's nobody in the hotel in the daytime when these these seniors are in the building for example um and and by the time the seniors go home the hotel guests start coming in there's no rush over there yeah there's nothing that like overlaps or like it just I think it's a it's a it's a pretty efficient use of both spaces MH no I agree with you I think it's great use and I think it's a good opportunity for here I just think that right at the end of that cuac where you have the two entrances I think you could could and maybe we're stepping over our lines here and having tell us not but I think you could take away some of this two-way traffic and make a one-way flow it would it would ease traffic congestion I think you've got there's so many arrows going totally different directions that I think you look at confusing looking at it now I I can and I know what it's like on the on the ground cuz I've been there and I think you're bringing in Vans adults uh daycare for adults so you're bringing in you know different types of uh health issues with adults and different things right um but you're also you know a different uh senior citizens that are coming in here and then you've got a a general use hotel at the same complex with the same entrances it would have been nice to see kind of like a modification made you've taken an existing plan and not address not addressed it that's all we're trying to say we can take these flow out so just make it one you can bring it in then bring it around the hotel and then bring it back out right where your pen is right now you've got In-N-Out traffic you got in andout traffic to the right going to the Holiday Inn then you got two-way traffic going in between the holiday in and in front of your daycare I mean it just seems like cars are going everywhere well we we can take this flow out so the flow can go this way and this flow can go there because trying to clean it up understand you're saying asking you as the engineer to maybe clean it up a little bit and make it a little bit more safe that's all we're not we're not I'm not against the project I think it's great yeah we just like even when the both even when 214 rooms were open and full Ballroom wasn't use we I think there's enough driveways and enough space that we've never really seen any heavy congestion there even like prior to co for example but you don't have any sidewalks though way there's no you got to you got to admit that lower parking lot has no sidewalks and people are walking in the parking lot and it is different this population so we're creating we're creating new sidewalks along the building right but you but if people are parking down in these lower lots to get to that adult daycare they're going to have to walk in front of the main entrance of the hotel they have to cross the traffic flow to get to the to to if somebody was parking in the lower lot who's using the adult daycare that's probably never going to happen because it's all drop in and drop out there's nobody's driving there as as a SC but you don't know unless you're going to have signs there don't park here right but they're going to park people could park anywhere no no but what I'm saying is the the the the seniors being dropped off they're not driving themselves right so they would never be there's no situation where a senior is going to park themselves in the lower parking lot and walk is my point so there's no there's no senior citizens that come here they don't yeah Drive everybody's being picked up and dropped off yeah okay correct correct that's the things we're saying like we can direct all the employees to a certain area of the parking lot for parking which is usually going to be the least amount of used spaces away from the hotel right yeah and everybody else's spaces are preserved which is guest and and drop off fans okay not every person dropping off has a handicap placard some family members will be parking in that lower lot but crossing over multiple Lanes of traffic without crosswalks or without sidewalks like if you have to go in for something or something I think we're getting into the weeds yeah I don't want to get in the weed I was just trying to clean up the main entrance and I we can make some one ways I I understand Mr Walsh I do understand what you're saying yes there there can can we make a couple of them one ways yes absolutely we're not opposed to that we just we just need to do some homework on which ones make sense that's all yeah that's all yeah okay um I have we're notos I didn't want to create a major issue for just a flow no but that's a good point though because that that is like like we've all used it it is a little quy yeah if you can I think I think the circle there is was originally there created so that all the parking lots kind of connected and it all kind of flows right so but now we have different uses and different like that holiday in is one like might be nice to try to clean it up while yeah I think probably I would say 100% of the traffic from the holiday exits on the other side of the driveway which is not the traffic light cuz to them that's the easiest and and and that's where the sign is so like we we we rarely see traffic coming on the Alpine side where where the traffic light is most most people exit from the other side which is already connected where the where the dental office is uhuh why would they do that if there's no light there that's really hard to get out of because that's where the hotel sign is like that's where the driveway is that's the first driveway they see when they're coming off 495 they don't know any different exactly they come in that way but once they see the there okay um I have a question what about the um lecture room and the meeting room do they go with the daycare facility whatever's on the floor plan yes everything uh not looking at the plant hold on so there's the participant area and then the behind at the kitchen no those are no they're not part of they're not part just just what's hash right now is part of that yes okay those are so are they going to have meals here yes yes so they will use that kitchen yes in the back here but not those rooms no not those rooms those are in case there's a meeting room yeah for the yeah those are those are they're not even being renovated right now they're just kept as is they're not part of the program that's why they have a separate access also those rooms separate what access access yeah way I think that I think that needs to be cleaned up a little bit as to what exactly is the adult daycare footprint if hashed area that's the adult daycare footprint but it has non-h hated areas that are the bathrooms and stuff which I'm presuming they're going to use so it would be good to know what in the floor plan is actually the adult daycare and what is not in the adult daycare that's not clearly identified doors that lead into the meeting room the kitchen the ancel used to the space so there' be prep meals and stuff yes so is it going to be used by other people in the structure as well no just for just for the adult daycare use so then can you hash it and the bathrooms like whatever is part of the dayare yeah that that can be done the bathrooms are created for the daycare use yes okay but you just said that everything that's as far as where the as far as most like as far as all the seniors are going to be sort of congregating is the hashed area we we'll adjust it yeah we can adjust it that's fine okay so the so the lecture room and the meeting room would be part of the adult daycare space but not necessarily used we traditionally don't concern ourselves a great deal about inside the walls true and I think maybe we're going it's mixed use right that's what I was getting at was there's a understand your rational there's a hallway with an external entrance in the back this is located with a hotel and so there's a question of what other uses might be happening in those rooms and so that I'm going I think that also probably is a concern for the licensing agency which will be concerned for the resident safety Etc I would think so but I think we want to be clear about where the adult daycare use is occurring right and that's not clearly delineated on this plan and I assume anything that we Grant would be for the first floor not the second floor because that's only for the first floor don't take that okay second floor plans are still being developed and vetted so is the first floor if I remember that inside Space correctly is the first floor open ceiling to the second floor it is which is going to be closed off the STI is that entire is coming out it's going to be a normal ceiling right okay so that that floor will essentially be extended so it's no longer an open space above that's correct that's correct that Great Hall goes away yep it's noted on page A1 of the I saw it okay um I had one more question is it so the activity space is all going to be inside there's going to be no external yeah there no external activity space all all internal yes on A1 and A2 the entire uh floor used by the daycare is basically shown the hatched area and the bathrooms basically that's it in the kitchen A2 has the the bathroom shown yeah as as the details of the of the bathrooms yeah but that does include the meeting room and the lecture room those those are not they're not they're not being they're not being used for this use right now for for the [Music] daycare it's it's it's still not clearly the bathroom capacity is designed for the floor space that is the maximum like you said 50 square ft per person calculator into the bathroom space residents so that's this the bathrooms are designed for that use and that square footage basically okay and they open only to the daycare open floor area right hotel has their own bathrooms they have their own seating space and all that okay um shall we are we done with questions and do we have any other deliberation to do and do we have letters to read yes um building department Building Commissioner uh be advised should your proposed adult daycare be approved by the planning board this building here regarded needs to meet all minimum standard requirements of the building code energy code is adopted by the town of chumford all accessible parking curbs ramps need to be maintained and are created as deemed necessary and to comply with Ada and 521 CMR also a change of use maintain use inspection will be required by the building department Health Department uh paraphrasing this proposed project has plans for kitchen facility which would need to meet the state sanitary code 105 CMR 590 minimum sanitation standards for food establishments this project must also meet the town of Chumps Provisions chapter 2011 board of health article 9 food service and Retail food establishment the applicant would need to complete a food establishment plan review and submit full stamped architect plans for review Once these plans are approved by the health department the applicant shall then apply for food establishment permit if the project plans to have a dumpster on site it must meet town of Chums uh Provisions for ruse dumpster collection licensing an operation police and Treasurer's Office no [Music] concerns and then fire prevention office um all pertinent fire codes um must be must be conformed to for the design of the con and the construction of the proposed office plans must be submitted to this office as part of the building permit permitting process for approval stamped fire protection plans must be submitted separately for approval by an appropriately licensed professional all inspections must be completed prior to use Additionally the follow following requirements will need to be met separate fire alarm panel with an addressable annunciator at the main entrance indicator be on the outside of the building location to be coordinated with this office nox box with master keys for all doors at the main entrance building number to be visible in the front of the building also to be coordinated with this office wayfinding signage inside the building to be coordinated with the office the applicant must also file an e911 application with town clerk's office uh for for dressing purposes due to the separation of the occupancies no cross occup occupancy will occur on site between the hotel and adult daycare usages and then public works all existing utilities must be clearly labeled and marked s l site layout should have registry block and planning board signature lines include utilities and drainage easement on the site layout no increase to the town of chumford SE infrastructure should be more than the 500 gallons per day the applicant should analyze sewage flow Title 5 if proposed conditions to determine required sewer allocation this should be submitted to DPW for approval the applicant has begun coordination with DPW to determine a necessary fee to purchase the required sore based on the difference of the intended use from the existing sore usage there is no title 5 or chumford SE Department base flow for adult daycare so the applicant will work with the DPW to determine an acceptable daily flow if it's dpw's understanding the proposed apartments on the second floor are not included in the submission and so capacity for proposed Apartments will be evaluated separately once the estimated GPD flow is determined DPW will be able to confirm whether an adjacent so line and Pump Station have the capacity to handle that flow and then standard conditions of approval as built plans must be submitted to DPW the DPW shall monitor enforce sflow and impose penalty for violations thereof and all handicap signs must meet all state and town standards that is all I believe and and for the record uh I've had an opportunity to review all those various comments from your departments we have no objection to the recommendations uh obviously to obtain requisite license Shore we're going to need to show uh the licensing agency bilding Code Compliance NFPA compliance State sanitary Code Compliance we're going to need to obtain the requisite uh Food Service permit and so forth uh we have no objection to the DPW suggested conditions which are fairly standard okay um should we proceed um I mean it seems like we need some run some revisions of some things so I guess I'll take a motion to continue the public hearing yeah before we before we do just to clarify I think the two things correct me if I'm wrong I think the two things that we're asking for is one for you to to consider what the traffic flow would be as to whether it would be a one-way sort of around however you do that but you're going to look at that and then the other one would be a clear delineation of the what of the floor plan in that building is adult daycare okay I think those are the two and are there any public for comments that's right there any comments from the public anyone who wants to speak I don't see anyone on Zoom either okay then would it be appropriate you want I just have one question um is it okay if we work with I don't know if it's the Police Department or maybe the planning planner to work on the oneway thing and submit it I mean so you can approve it with that condition maybe I don't want to lose another two three weeks and just I'm just trying to like we've already lost two years as attorney CA said trying to get the zoning code corrected um we just like to keep it moving the construction season is now the hotel is under renovation we want to get this thing into it as fast as we can uh we we're more than happy to work with whoever you recommend commend for the one ways that's no problem and the delation of the space I mean it's it's there but it's not quite black and white we can make that black and white that's not a problem I mean they're not astronomical things right so are you in there with a building permit yet or a demo permit uh if you give we're going to be there and I mean the reason I'm asking is that if you if you return with revised plans and it's approved and you have a good indication uh that the board is heading in that direction I think you're free and clear to submit building permit plans and proceed your own risk I was going to take the approval and get them to the Building Commissioner tomorrow so you know Bo understand what I'm what I'm suggesting here he's asking he's concerned about planning board delay for 2 three weeks whatever what I'm suggesting is during those next 2 three weeks you apply for your building permit yeah we can and then you're not losing two or three kind of ready for that already almost yeah will the building inspector accept the application without an appr well he can start the review I think I guess I mean I I think with my update seems like the board and you are heading in a similar Direction you're still proceeding at your own we've already Ved this with the Building Commissioner before so most of the work is Interior right yeah there nothing exterior right except the ramps of a few things that Happ maybe whatever modification you're making to the the recirculation y so so if the board wants to continue what what date are you looking at can we do it November 13th that's the next meeting right yeah November 13th are you taking public comment yes we asked for it no one spoke up but you're welcome to speak up Nancy thank you much um Nancy rway 65 Littleton Road um yeah I just wanted to provide a comment that I I was a user of an adult daycare uh uh that is managed by the town at the senior center and my experience using that over the course of several years is that there are a significant number of families that deliver and pick up uh the participants in the program um and those family members may or may not be mobile themselves um so you have a number of people being delivered independent of the buses uh typically either with wheelchairs or uh canes and Walkers and their um their sponsors if you will their their deliverers um maybe on canes themselves um so you really do need to take into consideration the amount of parking that's required because the program has a starting time and therefore the these are all showing up around the same time within a you know within a half an hour time period and picking up within a half an hour time period thank you much thank you Nancy good point November 13th will give you adequate time to revise yeah we'll work on the traic Clow sure cool thank you then I would uh I guess we would leave the public hearing open yes just continue okay then I will move to continue move to continue the public hearing by Mike risbeck second y I'll second second by Anita all in favor I I I Chris it's unanimous including Chris thank you thank you thank you yeah I think we got to be able to knock this one off next time okay next up we have a confusing thing we have Nancy chun's continued public hearing which we had agreed when you were last before us to continue till November 13th but it was placed in error on the agenda for tonight so my understanding was that we were going to continue it till November 13th as we had all agreed previously you want extra time no you want to you want to you want to present tonight yeah I you I know I did send you an email cuz the board invert inadvertently continued it to tonight and not to your request of November 13th I confused I thought um because you said the the planning board has to make a decision in 120 days but you gave an extension right I if you if you want to if you want to continue this for November 13th to give you more time I I I I'm I don't have anything else to do that the plan okay okay I already submitt the architect new drawing and um the planning board want me to separate the hallway which we put on the drawing so aart residential will go one one entrance and the office goes to different entrance I'm sorry I can't hear you um they don't share the same entrance office and apartment apartment use different entrance stand the office okay and that's why you suggest I put a uh door on the hallway so they don't share the hallway that was the last time we yeah and there was a on the on your floor plan there was also a doorway that went into one of the bathrooms the restrooms of the apartment has that been changed that's uh we we changed the unit all together because um in order to separate the hallway so the apartment has to be on the one side yeah not in the back of the building as originally planned that's why you see the plan A1 mm but I don't see that bathroom anymore yeah because it's it's not on the apartment side did you take the bathroom out building that that was uh there for day one 3 five years ago I'm sorry that b different units different being proposed this time oh but it's not on the same floor plan where's the where's the bathroom so the initial units were 15 17 and 19 and 19 bathroom now she's proposing 14 and 16 in order to separate the hallway that has to be that way 17 19 are no longer in The Proposal right oh all right so I'm a little confused here where is so which ones are in The Proposal Chris so if you look at the plan that's up yeah so that entire bottom half yeah uh 13 15 and then that elbow yeah that was the original proposal and 19 was on the upper Part of That Elbow right now those two in the elbow are off and 14 and 16 on the other side of the hallway are in The Proposal she did she I think the reason for that is that you wanted that um interior Corridor door yeah and in order to locate it so that it made any sense they the apartments were shifted to be to be with on the opposite side of that door no I understand that so uh on the north side of this plan now the way you have it the ones facing the parking lot are those now Apartments now or that that was a a a rental of an office that's an apartment for that facing the parking L is 14 and a 16 right so those going to be Apartments now so your your designer the office that was there is no longer going to be there right what about the the business tenant with the recording stuff where's he that's where he was that's what I thought yeah I talked to him he he can move to 17 he he only comes once a month for 1 hour he he is il legally blind what about okay so what about the what about those old apartment that we approved last time that's that was for the super that's 13 that's 13 Oh I thought was right now I only applies three is that so that's the one with all the multiple rooms and all the multiple little room bathrooms and yeah which is being changed part of this plan right although okay so here's the inside of [Music] 15 so 15 has two bathrooms and two bedrooms and there's no requirement for second floor bathroom uh is there any requirement I'm not sure that they have to have access to the elevator yes the door has a push bar like an emergency door uh you know push bar so only go emergency okay otherwise it's locked so you pushed out to go to elevator in in the elevator there's a sign there from 35 years ago say handicap only I didn't do don't have access like you what's a like the requirement for elevators for handicap access Evan I don't know I mean all of all of that we normally rely on the Building Commissioner yeah to ensure compliance with the building code and Ada and the fire department right yeah exactly so regard regardless of what you what you do if you approve something and the plan flaw plans are deemed and are non compliant it will be will be addressed and resolved yeah yeah I think you know we should really should not worry too too much about what's inside these right no I agree but you again you have mixed use on the same floor using the same elevator so just think that door is set up the the it's it's away from the elevator so someone would have to leave the apartment come into the public carridor to use the elevator yeah if they were if they were to use it is there a requirement that they have elevator access I don't know that there is usually on the second floor for a rental unit I would for new construction yeah 40b multif family you can have a three a three floor Building without an elevator yeah there's no requirement here okay and if there is the building inspector will take care of it okay thank you and they don't need additional sewer capacity for four new apartment units correct is that what they're saying uh seems surprising to me I think that's what the DPW letter says yeah I'm sorry I didn't think we were doing this tonight so I'm just looking at it it's pretty simple they have a letter uh back in June or something from the DPW already October 7th is their most recent letter yeah he already calculated everything out all right should we read the letters um I guess wait first does anyone else have any more questions for Nancy and is there is building is unit 21 included in this no no but we have I'm just looking through the letters that are attached what's that I was just looking through the letters that that um the citations that there was Unit 14 and 21 were illegally occupied illegally occupied yeah I was going to say it I want mean to interrupt you it's distressing to me personally as a board member that this applicant came to this board two times and then lo and behold the the police and fire department and building inspector had to go out there on September 25th and found two illegal Apartments so I'm having a a credibility problem uh believing any of this information about these apartments or proposed Apartments there's no illegal apartment there that he's talking about the 14 that um the musician has it he he had a a fut toown there and they think a what fut toown you know the fut toown yeah mattress of futan yeah futan there and they think they he lived there I told him him I told the uh building inspector I said he only comes 1 hour per month to drop the rain check and and because I Mel managed the building I know exactly when he used the futon which was one and a half years ago the reason I knew is um they he had a potential partner meeting that night and a go after midnight so he he didn't want to go home to to wake the whole his parents up his sibling up so he stayed overnight and he's legally blind he cannot drive yeah I keep on telling them they won't listen to me I mean where is the where's the letter about the illegal yeah there just there there the building inspector comment building inspector comments but you know sympathetic as I am to John's position we really ought to keep our eyes on what we're approving and not not get too far a field except we're not really sure what we're approving because well it's looking better at least we have a a drawing that makes some sense we have a drawing that makes some sense now which we did not have I mean is there a feature that you would like to see on the drawing that is not full narrative on code analysis energy code stretch code specialized optin code are required do we have that well I do apply um building permit I have to address that if I do any remodeling part of a building permit that's usually required yeah your application to the planning board proposed three e proposing three extra Apartments should not be considered until you or your representative provide clarification on the concerns voiced so the concerns voiced are a complaint about two extra illegal Apartments other than the apartments approved by the town it was discovered what appears to be Apartments contrary to the town zoning bylaws and buildings cone code Unit 14 and 21 were illegally occupied as apartments in violation of the zoning bylaws and building code the revised plans submitted on September 24th are not acceptable for review due to insufficient information okay please clarify why unit 21 is not depicted also a full narrative so I would say I personally would need a clean letter from The Building Commissioner I mean is that out of line on our part he's specifically saying that he doesn't think we should accept this application unless these issues are addressed anyway um my attorney is involved of that because I'm sorry I have a question I have a question for Evan at the moment um I'm just looking at Jose's letter he's referring to plans dated uh submitted September 24th is that this one is there a subsequent one that we're looking at I'm looking at the uh I I see the narrative that was submitted September 24th and let's just see what the plan September 24th so he is referencing the new the most recent plan so I think we need you need to go with the building inspector and address his issues before we can vote on this already did he reinspected the whole Unit 14 and the 21 did you did you come across the this email that's up here from Jose October 9th oh no I have October 1st okay so on October 9th Jose sent an email saying that they did a second inspection um on on October 9th and verified that the prior violations that you just referenced are now cleared and there's no um sleeping units but then he also says Evan can you please clarify if Unit 13 and 15 shall the passage door between the units be so so the so the the most recent revised plans did away with the prior the physical conditions that Jose in the fire department um saw during their inspection what ny's proposing part the uh the plans that we looked at remove a lot of that okay so again there's some so Jose and fire are referencing physically what they saw and some violations but what Nancy's proposing doesn't it removes some of those um passage doors between between units well I'm going to insist that that has to get cleaned no I'm sorry most definitely after all there's still confusion about unit 135 shall be a single joint unit connecting through P yeah yeah just sit down with Jose with your revised floor plan Stand by Your engineer and walk him through that the that there's four separate independent units they're not they're not physically connected you saw that I know but the board wants a a letter from him acknowledging that it's compliant with the building code I'm not even that's fine um Evan where are we with the extension and the number of days is under review yeah um I guess right here she already gave us an extension till theth no this is the time to act just give me a moment here you need to act now this is the meeting instead of the 13th so gave an extension to the 13th but we took up the item tonight instead of the 13th so now this defal too so we're just clarifying where is she because otherwise this goes she can get approval yeah yeah we got to we have to be very careful with that time um I believe I can have her I can have her sign another another time an extension of a time to act right now if they're if we're all mutually agreeing to to continue I think I would like to continue I mean he's sent us a letter saying X Y and Z needs to be clarified and I feel that it hasn't been adequately clarified so I would like to have another extension till the 13th that you need to agree to and then we'll take it up and I think that assuming that those issues are clarified and cleared by Jose then we're even after the reinspection on the what October which day October 9th 9th he he then he sent a letter on October 9th you wanted him do again it was an email not to us it was it was this was the letter to us and then there was an email not to us yeah he sent an email to Brian Sullivan and Evan and then copied the fire chief and the fire captain but that's all it says it yeah it's still making inquiries about issues that need to be addressed I mean I I don't know if the point could be made that those aren't in our pview and we should oh I want to know is know exactly planning bll wants and I I will talk to Jose to make sure he he going to do whatever you want because I thought he came back reinspect and everything clear but if it's not clear to you I'll I'll make sure okay he does again so we're going to do two actions we're going to do a a motion to continue to November 13th simultaneously Nancy I'm gonna ask you to sign an extension of time to act to November 29th and it and it just make sure I understand Jose understand what exactly plan yeah I can sit down with you and Jose okay okay I I will move that we uh continue to the 13 to the 13th have second second by Anita all in favor I I Chris no this is a not so what's the today's uh October 23 27 okay so next meeting will be November 13 right between now and then you you and I will sit down with okay thank you thank you thank you Nancy thank you bye thanks okay uh we have holiday schedule so we're going to have a meeting November 13th we're going to have a meeting December 11th we're not going to have one the night before Thanksgiving so the question is should we add do we need an additional meeting either November 20th or December 18th as I mentioned I do have one applicant who's trying to get on as soon as possible what else we have on the 13th besides Nancy a pet may come back pet and also the independence correct I feel like Nancy and Independence shouldn't be lengthy no I'm assuming documents yeah so I think we could manage maybe manage one more thing is the new thing going to be in depth and lengthy the new the new thing I don't think we can get it on the 13th due to advertising um requirements so then let's do it what is it um progress a in addition to an existing industrial building on progress a it was either it was either advertising or the project is this a major site or a minor site no it's minor okay he may have had a conflict so he was asking when Becky mentioned that the board may consider the 20th he is available on 20th well maybe we could do the 20th only that and the bad and and then do bad yeah okay what do people think about that I mean and I would say do bad as a um roll up your sleeves work session at 6:30 and do the other at not till 8 or even 8:15 why don't we do the the hearing first okay we do the hearing first good idea and then get that out of the way and then close the hearing and go into a work session yeah I think that makes a lot of sense thank you Chris okay all right so we have a meeting now on the 20th no meeting on December 18th no meeting on December 18th is that okay with people yep and you think we'll get through all our work that way Evan I think so on the 13th um if the board is interested I can have someone from the uh State flood plane program uh provide a an overview of the required zoning amendments to the flood plan bylaw that would be great yeah I'd like to see that that is something that we'll we'll need to advance for Springtown meeting okay um next up we have liaison updates the housing Advisory Board didn't meet anyone have any updates it's Chris you're you're muted thank you I was not able to attend the concom meeting yesterday okay Joel it was pretty full I walked by there I gave the planning board update and then I left what was what was the big issue cuz I I noticed they had the the room seemed to be pretty full I watched that there were some people from pet who didn't know it was going to be continued ah okay they had a variety of other guests as well yeah okay master plan implementation committee oh annual goals and objectives I thought we were taking that off okay I can take that off the master plan implementation committee uh is a subcommittee of the planning board you appointed uh this committee uh the town clerk has reminded us that um all of these appointments have expired and need to to be M reappointed so that is me you that's that's everybody on the committee Fred brusso James dargon Drew Scott rumel Peter spawn Brian strip Deb TNA uh and Glenn Thoren has resigned from this committee so I think a motion to appoint the Full Slate with the exception of Glenn Thoren through and pick a date with would suffice about a year from now yeah I I would recommend it it's a pretty good team okay um I'll take a motion uh make a motion to reappoint um all those good folk yeah all those good folk sure uh with the exception of yeah the existing committee with the existing um committee with the exception of Lan Thor to October 31st to 2025 okay what' he said turn into a pumpkin second from Chris second second by Mike Walsh motion by Anita all in favor hi hi thank you all right um input to the outdoor space and Recreation committee Brian script wanted us to weigh in on the ways in which we interact with the outdoor space and Recreation commit committee um but just open space and Recreation in general and and the concept in general I'm not sure that we have a huge huge interface with them well I mean there have been projects before us where theyve where Open Spaces discussed made a donation of pocket Parks or um so what is the ask here is the ask he he just wanted us to kind of talk about about think about what what impact our work has on open space issues and if um yeah I I for I'll give you an idea what I did for agcom is basically sent him two short paragraphs saying this is what we do and these are the other Town groups that we uh that we interact with when we're doing it and that seemed to satisfy him I copied you on it if that was adequate mhm um I mean we we have you know in a general way made lip service more than anything else I would say to the idea especially in the 129 as projects come before us in the future I hope we'll embark on that um process more anyone else I know Chris you had some thoughts about it well we we we definitely included it in our um in the NBTA zoning true bylaw um so we've been trying to include it where we can uh the challenge is that a lot of our um zoning does not necessarily require um a significant amount of open space it prioritizes other things over open space yeah but but admittedly we have a lot of uh places where we have considerable latitude on the special permits where we certainly can stick stuff in and we do to some degree we should probably do more yeah we should but I mean they're only 365 days a year I wasn't sure if he was like asking us to do more or if there was like just wanted you just wanted taking the pulse I think okay that was I wasn't sure what the ask was here all right so I'll write a couple paragraphs and I'll send it I guess around see if people are okay with it yeah um including the MBTA and the overlays where we have special permit ability we're trying to integrate it and we hope to continue to do more so in the future um all right so now we have to assign um planning board liaison to replace Paul who looks like was on quite a few committees I'm on the I'm on the mcog one so he's wasn't on that um I think the town has two delegates for Nim Cog oh oh the town has two or the pl board has two I think Pat yeah Pat's on there so it's me and Pat was Paul like were you guys sharing it is that was are you the official design previous year okay all right then I'm my mistake okay okay Center Village master plan committee um I would be interested in that except my husband's the chair so I don't necessarily think that's ideal it would be ideal if you weren't conflicted that's one of the challenges with Mike being a chair is that on some of the uh topics that the committee wants to discuss he is has a legal conflict because we're a buts exactly yes right so I don't that's not going to be that's not going to work they won't be able to get a quorum for decisions does I mean does this person have to actually be a planning board member to to be a Leone I don't know we talked about that question because Paul actually is interested in continuing in that on that committee but I don't know if we are if we are able to appoint him as our liaison no if that if you're that in that within that context I would suggest you just table that appointment if you think that uh between November 18th joint meeting with the  board and then the second step being to backfill the associate position that that the new associate member might be interested yeah that's a good idea all right you want to table table that and then um open space Recreation plan committee I didn't realize he was on that either how often do they meet they've been meeting uh monthly and they're uh turning the corner I think within the next month to review the first draft so that process is closer to being done at this point okay I would say if we're in a jam I mean I I know most of the stuff they're working on so I'd be willing to take it okay I mean that's going to be cool as Farm stuff and a bunch of other stuff you know that kind of thing common themes common themes okay so um um I guess we've done all those that we need to do at the moment and then so finally the minutes people have a chance to review the minutes does anyone have any corrections yeah there was two corrections I saw one on October 9th um just ni's name was incorrectly spelled how was ni's name spelled nibr NBI oh okay how was nibby doing any reports I think she was on she was on Facebook today I was but she didn't visit the gcom meeting and and on September 11th I'll just send this to Becky it's just a it's just a typo under 191 chumford Street at Casey ferrera's name is just that's all oh okay did other correction that I saw on September 25th related to the Dober Amendment um a little bit more significant correction so Town Council um when referring to the Dober Amendment the text says only mandates non project but I went back to the video and he actually says the Dober Amendment only applies to nonprofit distinction to educational facilities and does not make that distinction for child care which was relatively critical in our decision yeah that was yep that's why I wanted to correct that good call so should we wait to approve that one well I I think we can make the change if we just approve with with the change and how about we wait for that one that one table it yeah especially with this thing on our desk right here yeah we should need that from back just think of how many little paper airplanes you can make so then we'll move to approve I'll take a motion to approve the um September 11 I will move to approve the minutes of uh September 11th 2024 second mooved by Mike risbeck second by John all in favor I by unanimous and also for the December I'm sorry I got I got lost in my uh October 9th take a motion I move that we approve it with the correction of nibby spelling y take a second second all in favor I hi motion by Chris second by Anita all in favor unanimous all right so our next meeting is November 13th and then we also have one November 20th I can send Becky the correction for the uh 25th thank you and then you have the joint meeting with the board on November 18th yeah yeah I will get clarification on whether that is just for the full member or if it's the full member and the alterate is the AL well has the application uh been put up on the town website yet it was two different things last time yeah it was two separate it was two separate no but can they both be posted and done at the same meeting or do they have to be done position is filled right now the only way that would work is is if after this meeting you resigned you and I forgot that the assoc that would we we neglected to remember that the associate position is is filled is filled right now C filled good God it couldn't be unfilled unless right minor DET we'll have to do another meeting we'll have to do another meeting for a joint session be two separate meetings I thought that was the case but I couldn't remember why that's all right they they they put it up front it's quick where that guy is over there yeah okay um would you like so I'll take a motion I move to adjourn second motion by Mike second by Anita all in favor hi hi hi Chris thanks e e