[Music] all right roll call commissioner Jackson here commissioner Williams commissioner wace vice mayor Hutson here and mayor kesy here all right uh public comments that are not on the agenda we've got um clus Peter M Claus Peter thinker 190 Coco Beach uh SE or Lane Coco Beach um the agenda today says he going to set a milit rate and I've spoken up to a couple a number of a couple of times already over the years uh the commission seems to uh set a milit rate a maximum achievable milit rate which is a number that's very arbitary but every year it seems to be that the commission ties their hands behind their back so I'll urge you once again set the millage rate at the highest you can do by law let the process work itself out and then see what milit trate comes out secondly in the last Workshop uh two of the commission members made it very clear that they had their minds made up about uh there would be no tax increases this budget process is designed Bottoms Up so your department heads will tell you what they would like to have and you're very welcome to go and talk to them and do cuts and what have you but the millit rate that you should agree on is something that falls out of the process you should not go into the process with your minds made up what the military is going to be thank you thank you sir anybody else uh about items that are not on the agenda go ahead Anderson 1800 minut Causeway I just have kind of a procedural question here here uh this has been advertised as a special meeting and it's being called a workshop and it's my understanding that if this is a legal meeting that the results are binding whereas the results of a workshop are not binding so I'm just wondering um what status when you guys set a military tonight is it a legally binding one or is this a workshop and its advisory thank you Rick um could you elaborate on any of that for us okay I go ahead yeah Patricia drott CFO so tonight we're going to do the budget workshop and following the budget Workshop we'll be setting the proposed or maximum millage it doesn't need to be legally advertised it's not part of that process the part that gets advertised is the second public hearing which is when they adopt the final budget and that'll happen September 19th um part of the U meeting tonight will be to set those two dates the first public hearing which is the tentative uh millage rate and the proposed budget and then the second public hearing is when they set the final millage with the final adopted budget so tonight what we're doing is a budget Workshop just going over numbers doing some feedback showing some changes in what they looked at the last time we met on this um and just to give a little more information to the Commissioners so that when they're setting the proposed or maximum illage that they will have a full um amount of knowledge and and information going into it thank you any other public comments about items that are not on the agenda yeah come ahead I come come speak up here please and name and address uh Margaret Schneider 191 seol Lane Coco Beach I want to speak about sidewalks but I'm wondering if indirectly what I'm going to say doesn't have to do with the budget so it's kind of like a rock part of the budget pardon me sidewalks are part of so I should wait till the end I have no problem doing that I mean maybe you'll get a better idea how we feel about sidewalk so okay I think it' be better all right no problem thanks and uh I think Sandra did you raise your hand and I just state name name and address Sandra Sullivan from South Patrick Shores so I wanted to um talk about lifeguards um and some research I've been doing um first of all I was at a meeting the other day Patriots meeting and uh state representative Randy fine was there and he stated that um the use by the county of the tdt tax for lifeguards is not a legal use and this will end up um inevitably in the courts so at a recent uh TDC meeting they moved uh nearly a million dollars from their um cultural grants fund to marketing um and that so that's an issue and so my recommendation and um you know because I advocate on a lot of issues so when I look at how the state Awards uh funding for our beaches for Sandry nourishment they have a calculation based on how many feet you have on a beach and then they have a calculation based on um the uh how many parking spaces if you have more than 100 parking spaces you get a a larger amount of money um and they be the reason they do that is they consider them tourism beaches because they recognize for the state that uh it brings in a return on investment for every dollar that they spend they get uh you know a return on that investment so my recommendation in looking at the uh the state statute for the for the tdt is to go to the state representative we're going to have a legislation legislative session coming up and it's around this time in advance that they start writing bills and I think it's a it's a very uh astute point to say when you have tourism beaches it is a tourism expense you have Public Safety expenses that are associated with that it is a fair and reasonable expectation for Public Safety and this this equates directly to the return of on investment for our local governments and for the state um and it is a very solid argument that say in the interest of Public Safety the tdt language should be changed and there is language in the tdt language uh for um uh for the use of um of of that tax for Public Service uh for public safety for lifeguards and and ambulance and police but it's only if the jurisdiction is less than 275 5,000 people so there's a I'd like to leave this with you mayor if that's okay um and just suggest that um with some tweak of the state statute I think we could get a win-win solution for everybody in the interest of Public Safety should I thank you just leave it with the clerk right there and I'll grab it thank you appreciate you uh yes Jan Scott Cooker Beach uh I serve on the county rard county land and Parks committee and we meet four times a year through the reorganization of uh uh suggested by commissioner toaya and we suggested at our last meeting last week that the uh we sent a recommendation to the County Commission that they Lobby to have the TDC tax expenditures how they can spend the money which is now illegal and according to representative fine um to spend that on lifeguards and it only requires a tweak in the statute where they say um the tdt funds can be used for structures at the beach and so on and so forth all they have to do according to uh couple of other representative offices that I spoke with is insert the words Life Safety um Personnel or some sort of language so what I'm hoping is that you all will work on that submit some language that the City attorney can give to our lobbyists because this is going to happen really fast you know we have an election coming up in November the representatives that are termed out or aren't running again we get new a whole new CAD of uh representatives and it's got to hit the ground fast to be on the agenda in January and at State Legislature um and just to remind you that commissioner toaya requested that Coco Beach pay 7 31,2 31 for lifeguards because you know we have these parking fees and he felt the parking fee should pay for it so I look forward to hearing from you about the status of that situation thank you thank you Janes is that it for a public comment all right um staff reports and announcements nothing even okay new business good evening so Patricia drot CFO um I just having had some feedback from Commissioners uh from the last meeting until this one I've made some revisions to the the report that you have in front of you from the last time we met um this is this slide shows you the reserve requirements by fund and I've actually separated out the the total cost of The Debt Service on the annual basis uh from other reserve requirements uh for the general fund for all of the funds and then in the general fund there's the 19% that the city commission passed for ass signed emergency disaster and that's just a little over 6.7 million and then there's the unassigned reserve minimum of 2% um and what that is it's just a reserve requirement but for not a specific purpose such as the 19% so the total minimum Reserve requirement is just about 8.6 million for the general fund in the C CRA fund the utilities fund um and the storm water fund The Debt Service requirement is or the reserve requirement is the debt service and then just best practice not by commission requirement but just best practice is to have a minimum of two months costs um in your reserve require your Reserve balance and that's what you'll see for that total minimum Reserve requirement this is looking at your um sources of funds there's the major change between the last time and this time is under the other um uh receipts um oh this is what you saw last time my mistake this this is what we looked at last time uh with the revenues and the expenditures with which would have ended up with a Reserve balance of 3.4 million and that would not meet the needs that we have so some of the things that um initially that I have done is I pulled out the capital facilities for the fire station design uh planning and construction for the marina study and design and just a notation that that 445 represents study and design only because without completion of that we don't have full cost of construction and then um adding in a city hall parking garage um and that's the estimated full cost but there's a possibility that if the commission was to decide to go forward with this project that it could be a private public partnership so some of that cost could be um financed not through debt or City cost but through the private um um contributions to the that construction but by taking those you know having those as being debt financed it's going to increase the revenues for that year and so it kind of has an offset to that expenditure Min which reduces the amount of ADV vorum that would be needed in the year of construction granted after you get the um debt financing the year following that there would be the debt would go up yep so then you'd have debt payments but those debt payments would be over a 20-year period And even for a cost like that it would be probably less than 1.5 million on an annual basis yes sir so you say you've taken these out these three items out when you when you look at this I'm just it was it's not really taking it out it's taking it out of how do you pay for it do you pay for it by using adum taxes in other words are you paying for it by cash and if you're paying for it by cash you end up with that picture of 3.4 million in reserves is still in this budget yeah so what so um out of those three items City Hall Parking Garage I'm willing to kill um fire station planning design and construction I think for the north fire station right I think it needs to stay um we can have a discussion with the with the mayor about the marina study and design we haven't even gotten any results from the survey that was performed a couple of months ago or at least a month and a half ago and uh the word on the street is that and the majority of the people you know don't want to spend $445,000 on the design of a marina that obviously if you're paying that much for the design you can you can almost uh multiply that by four for any potential construction so um as far as the marina goes we already spent $75,000 of asked the city manager and we've said at this commission that out of that 75,00 study portion that we want a feedback from The Bard County management manity management plan that says up or down you know is this possible or not possible and The Bard for anybody who doesn't know The Bard County management protection plan was forced into place by the manity club so that they didn't have to you know Sue and get involved in every little thing that went on in brard county that could affect manties so if the first $75,000 doesn't pass the litmus test for The Bard County manate protection plan then I don't want to spend the other $75,000 and I think we should defer this $45,000 for now because I just don't think that it's prudent when that money is needed elsewhere and if we get back Stellar results from the man our County manam management committee and St John's and the core of engineers and every other regulatory uh group and we get no poke UPS from the manate club then maybe we'll spend the other $75,000 which is already plotted for next year is that correct it is in there currently yes so what out of these three items I'm willing to keep number one that's my opinion you know she like explained to me what we could have done if we did the same thing with the fire station 50 a parking garage and City Hall and what difference would have made now instead of paying putting the cash towards the city hall can you can you kind of summarize that so what this does is if if the commission chooses to use debt financing whether you move forward with the final budget or you don't it's not going to have a impact in fiscal year 25 on the Reserve balance because you either fund it with debt proceeds uh or you don't don't go forward then you don't have the revenue coming in you don't have the cost going out so it doesn't really affect that Reserve balance so what happened with the city hall construction is that most of that project has been paid for by using reserves cash balance so it's been taking cash out of Investments and it's reduced that Reserve balance that's going to come forward so when you look at your funds that are flowing forward into the fiscal year 25 budget they're reduced by that full amount of const ruction that was not financed by debt so the amount that was financed by debt is going to be 3.9 million and that's coming to the commission on Thursday for final finalization of that but the remainder of that has just come out of your cash or out of your Reserve balance and so it's depleting those funds that have come forward when you when you spend a large amount like that it's always going to bring those Reserve balances down and it means you have less available then for future budgets as opposed to if you say all of these large projects will be financed by debt financing what it does is it spreads that cost out over a 20-year period giving you more available for current year budgets but you still it it's still money that's got to be spent it's still money that's going to be spent it's just a matter of do you spend it all in one year or do you spend it over 20 years and you don't pull it out of the reserves and you don't pull it out of the reserves you can budget it's easier to budget for a million and a half than it is to budget for 13 million so when don't we go ahead but now we're in that situation now because that's what we did so now we got to figure out what we're going to do so one and two are in the budget and there's the offsetting debt Revenue correct yeah the third one is not in the budget the 7.8 wasn't in what you saw last time we met so what she's saying is the offsetting revenue coming from debt for items ones and two if those get taken out it's going to be a net zero change because the revenue is going to go away because they're not debt finan either you budget for the revenue and you budget for the project or the commission at any point before they finalize it say we're not moving forward in 25 with this and both the cost come out and the revenue from the debt proceeds so those changes those decisions won't have an overall impact on your final budget budget number so when you look at this screen it's the same thing that we saw on the first one except now when you look at the miscellaneous you've got 15 million versus here you had 1.9 and that change is adding in those debt proceeds and then when when you still see here the capital hasn't really changed because I didn't pull those out the only change to the capital was adding in the cost of the parking garage as a potential project I'm not saying that you're going to choose to move forward but it's just so you can see what that impact would be and with just that change just just moving those out and not moving them out but showing those as being financed through debt you can see the impact on the fiscal year 25 projected Reserve balances so I'm okay I mean I understand a lot of people don't understand the whole reading re reason behind the marina obviously it's to create more Revenue to keep taxes down I understand a lot of people don't understand that if you guys want to pull that 445,000 which might not even ever get spent because we don't know if it's even feasible um that's fine with me uh but we should continue with our feasibility study to see what it's what it's going to say there we've already put the money in let it let that feasibility study run its course and and then if it does if it's not feasible you know no harm no foul but uh pull pull the 450 I don't care but let the feasibility study remain so that we know whether it's feasible or not I don't even think it's pull I think it's just defer it is is take it out for now yeah I'm fine with that look take it out for now we'll get the results of the first $75,000 we spent we'll hash that over another 75,000 that was proposed and then then if all everything comes up roses then we'll consider what it's going to cost a do design in a build as I said before I absolutely will not vote for this Marina unless it is a 100% feasible without a doubt if it's a little feasible and it's just Teeter tottering I will not vote for this the only reason why I'll vote for this if it is absolutely profitable and it makes sense so just so everybody knows I'm not hardcore on this I don't need this Marina I'm thinking of ways outside of the box for us to keep our taxes down so if you guys want to wait on that 450 I'm I'm willing to but we need to find out what this feasibility study says because at this point nobody knows what it says so mayor I appreciate your comments I appreciate your comments that's the right thing to say um but you know going back to when you were a kid um we did studies and plans and all this for tajma Hall Police Department fire department City Hall it was only 12.5 million back in 2004 but the the money we spent to put that plan on the Shelf was pretty you know hundreds of thousands of doll and we never thought well are we going to be able to pay for it and so once we got the plan and all that we look and oh we can't pay for it so you know that's why I don't really I you know get the feasibility stays and all that and if it looks feasible and all the the regulatory committees and the manity people don't pop their head up then we decide and and I believe believe yes there is a return on investment um would it be realized in the next uh would it pay for itself in the next 10 years or 15 years maybe 20 years maybe but you know I mean we already know that there's a bunch of boats that are going to be displaced from the port this is a safe place for a lot of boats that don't have more than a 5ft draft um um it have to be run properly You' have to have pump out you can't have people living on boats and dumping their crap in the river is an environmental concern you know there's the the expenses for personnel that are monitoring and running the marina are going to just always that'll all come out in the feasibility study there's no sense in picking it apart here when nobody knows what's going on I'm just saying that we we spent we've spent lots of money over the years for studies and plans that we never had the money to implement and they all gather dust on the Shelf so the studies and plans and everything you're you're talking about there's a difference between investment opportunities and just building stuff that you have to have $445,000 is for the design and I'm not willing to plan money in the future I said that's fine okay let let's get the feasibility study done that's all I care about and and we'll let we'll let the study decide if the study says it's garbage I'm I'm I'm done I don't care I don't want my name attached to something that doesn't work Patricia do you need a red pin okay okay and take out the parking garage while you're at it no let's not take out the parking that that develops a lot of Revenue and she doesn't have to you don't have to spend it it's just there um so let me just try in on that I I think parking garages are absolutely profitable I think the one that we have is profitable it makes sense the only problem is I don't think that that parking garage at this time will be profitable because um we don't have the need yet in 5 years we might but I don't want to put money out for something that's going to take 5 years to to start why do you say 5 years they're building all around us you've got most building this thing everything is getting built around us we are saturated with parking parking spaces that we need to provide new businesses growth I mean we could at least do a study or whatever it keep have Wayne looking into it we don't have to spend 7.8 million next year but I think I think Sheard Park would be profitable for a parking garage and it's less less parking garages there and a parking lot that they just built but in my opinion either I I understand the parking garage but I feel like it will take it will take years before actually necessary it I I go to a lot of events downtown and I know you do too I know you understand um I rarely see that parking garage full so I a second parking time CU I have to drive around and it I know all the time all the time I'm just trying to let you understand why I'm kind of not on board at this point for the parking garage I I think it will be profitable in 5 years I think at this point we're not there yet but I am I I am and I know that a lot of the residents don't want to see another parking garage downtown so so so let me ask question of our City attorney and our city clerk this is a decisional meeting correct we can make decisions at this meeting is that correct um yes you can but you're not going to be you can take a consensus you're not going to be voting on something that is going to be chiseled in stone well then can I make a a a motion to get a vote by consensus or do I have to do head mounts no you can you can do that you can do that okay I'd like to make a motion by consensus that we should at least move the parking garage at least one year to the right we deal with it in the budget next year and I'm looking for a second okay got a motion in the second any any comment I I disagree okay you got anything you want to say about it yeah and and I'm here on both sides and and I think Revenue generators are great I think right now we're in a season where construction is at an all-time high in terms of cost with with projections that construction cost both in labor and materials will be going down I see I I think there's a lot of logic in deferring for a year but not because I think there's an ill logic to significant Revenue generators and I have seen the parking garage consistently full with along with you um just about every time I've tried to park in there um so I I think it's doing a good thing so but my thought is primarily on the Ultra Premium on the cost construction and labor I think for that reason alone deferring cost is a good thing that's where I'm at you got my motion Ken yes all right and then I'd like to get some public comment on this if if anybody wants to comment on that I would like to comment could you all give us a break on on Capital Improvement just for a minute just state your name and address and your concern Leonard Beck at 1503 Minutemen Causeway Cooker Beach I am absolutely appalled at the amount of money that you people have spent in The Last 5 Years it's insane you can't afford to pay your current bills you can't afford to put lifeguards on a beach and you're talking about spending 102 million every other year on buildings we got a brand new fire station that was supposed to be built to Hurricane standard to to sustain a category four or five and we get one tropical storm and the whole facade falls off of it we've got a parking garage over here that doesn't look anything like what you what you told us it was going to look like because the contractor cheaped out or somebody failed in their job and in babysitting a contractor we've got a city hall that started out to be a $6 million project and ends up being a $20 million project because somebody wasn't wise enough to realize that you're 200 ft from the beach and a storm surge of 5T was going to take City Hall out until the West Coast gets decimated and then you decide oh maybe we need to spend another few hundred, to redesign a building and make it twice or three times as expensive we're paying more for that building than every other city in the county has paid for their city hall and then you got this irresponsible idea coam Mania idea about a a a uh Marina and let me just tell you something I lived on board on a 47t yacht for 23 years in several marinas in this County that Marina will never make a profit there is not enough space to make it an operable profitable Marina you need a workyard you need a pump out you need fuel stations I don't understand the concept what is wrong with the idea that our elected officials who supposed to be watching the per strings actually fulfill their fiduciary duty when you're when your citizens are representing a net loss of income of 30% over the last two years and you continue to want to increase your budget by substantial amounts and then trying to figure out how you can avoid from paying for it immediately if I can't pay my bills at my house I can't just say oh well I'll just let it go for 20 years and we'll pay you know $10 every month for 20 years that's not a responsible option ever if you can't afford it you shouldn't build it now I had a whole different thing set up here that I was going to talk about I've got a speak sheet in and I'd love for this to go in the record what I've prepared for to talk about later on but listening to this conversation is just foolishness thank you sir you can submit your document to the city clerk if you want to put it in the record and uh actually I'd like to ref reference um our Patricia on a couple things I do appreciate your comments and I do sympathize with you being a resident in this town as well there was a a whole lot of inaccuracies in in a lot of what you said so I'm going to address Patricia with with a certain amount of comments Patricia two years ago when we first took office were we not just right at around 44 million just under 43 43 million something in debt yes last year did we not pay the debt down to about $40 million yes this year did we not pay the debt down to about $36 million yes this commission out of any commission is dedicated to paying down debt and being responsible with your money you don't see what happens behind the scenes but we fight and we fight hard for you we think of ways to save money or to make money here and there to offset taxes you know that the the um City Hall project was not $20 million it was 13 million I believe 11.5 11.5 million not 20 so half of what you thought it cost like I said a lot of inaccuracies supposed toost I understand your outrage we are fighting hard to bring these this this money down believe me that's why we're arguing about this money up here about what we're on to pay for either Marina or uh parking garage or anything we're on your side and I appreciate your comment and your concern and it didn't go unnoticed so thank you anybody else yes if I could just clarify one thing we as a government agency nothing that we do is designed or intended to ever make a profit what happens is if we have a revenue source that can subsidize other areas it means that we have funds available for projects or other costs which would then allow the commission to perhaps reduce the cost of the advm or the property taxes that are needed so it's a balancing it's a balancing thing so when you have a program like the parking program where the commission when they set that in place it was to offset some of the costs of Public Safety for the police and fire because there's a large cost for our Public Safety to be out there to protect the citizens we have a lot of tourists and that makes a very heavy burden on our Public Safety so that's that's a revenue that comes in that now is covering some of those costs that now are not requiring taxpayer dollars to cover those costs and keep keep you guys safe while those public while our police and our fire out there on the road and on the beaches and taking care of you so it's not that we're making a profit but it's a way or a method that the commission is looking at how do we generate revenues from other ways other sources than just taxpayers dollars the issue is that you have to go out you don't have to go out but if you go out for debt financing it just Smooths where that cost comes in and it allows for a project such as the marina if it's feasible it or the parking garage it allows the revenues generated to support that cost of the debt and thereby doesn't place the burden on the taxpayer and so that's kind of where I believe the commission is looking at is options to help mitigate that burden to the taxpayer and still provide services to to the people that live here thank you Patricia one more thing um n the 9 years prior that for this the majority of this commission getting elected isn't not fair to say that we we did raise um our debt every year for nine years consecutively well I mean if you maybe if you look I don't know off the top of my head but a lot of that debt that's being referenced the total debt more than half of it is through State revolving fund loans which are an extremely low rate of interest it's where we borrow from the state of Florida and it goes to storm water improvements and upgrades at the utility treatment PL the actual debt in the general fund is not that significant we have one of the lowest general fund debts thank you I'm just when we when we buil the fire station I think we got our loan for 1.8% yep and when we built the parking garage it was in that same range maybe a little over two% so those were good you know debt expenses at the cor another thing about taking debt is and I'm not I'm not for debt At All by the way and any way we can I I avoid us and and me and Patricia argue about this all the time but another good thing is um if we're getting 1 12% or uh I think you're saying just under 4% for this um City Hall City Hall it's our the money in our funds um acrew more they're acrew five or 6% we're actually making money by having debt rather than using the cash so sometimes you do take debt to offset because the interest rate it makes it better that's the only way that I'm willing to to make you know choose debt is if I know I'm going to make money off of it I want to say that's that's that's my whole belief and why I brought this up too I know plenty people British people who have money to buy expensive houses but they can pay cash if they wanted to but they choose to finance cuz keeping the money in the bank makes them more money keeping it in the bank and that's what I'm applying here and that's what all governments do City Federal that's how most that's how how that's how they if we didn't and being part of that commission that raised the debt as you guys were saying we needed those buildings our our our our city hall our fire our police station was a horrible mess we had massive floods in it a huge pipe burst like the year I was uh year before I was elected um we severely needed a parking garage cuz people drive around we couldn't have successful businesses because we had no parking all those things were needed and necessary and we couldn't do it without financing so um and I see proof that it has significantly improved our situation downtown um so it wasn't we were irresponsible it was things we really needed and that's how we accomplished it and it was smartly appropriating funds for the debt with the advice of our CFOs to do that not just piling on debt irresponsibly it was very calculated and planned thank thank you so the debt is a cash flow technique I mean more important is the millage rate that's the budget we're voting on so I completely agree with them we've got to be top down we've got to be diligent I absolutely agree too the debt is a tool to manage the cash flow more importantly is the millage rate and absolutely I'm going to stick to it top down we we can't open the budget up just because oops we you did bottoms up roll up and we exceeded it so the way I see it is we we we need to work with what we have and if we and if we um we have to be responsible with the taxpayers money this isn't this isn't our our our fund to use for whatever we want so I agree I still want to keep um but we still got to go through all this so uh there are some public comments that I want to take since the spurred some things so go ahead [Music] yes John Lo 444 Dempsey Drive KOCO Beach I think the the primary problem from the highest level here is that the budget that's on the table right now the draft budget it requires something like $1 million approximately draw down in the reserves am I correct on that depends on depends on it it's showing a significant draw down in the reserves and that's what we as a commission we as a city we don't want to do that so there's that's the row so if I refer back to the previous slide there were three projects up there there was the firehouse Marina and the parking garage and it gives the impression that we're trying to do all three of those items in this fiscal budget that we're now we're going to set in the next few months we're trying to do those three items in the next fiscal budget now I understand the marina is only on the study part it's not the construction but the firehouse at 5 million that's like the all-in cost the uh parking garage 7.8 that really that just came up at the last Comm Mission meeting but that's like the all-in cost the marina is going to go over years but it gives the impression that we're trying to do that in the next fiscal year it's not physically possible to do that in the next next fiscal year even if we wanted to do it it's not possible I think it would for me it would make more sense if it showed that those three items whether they survive on their merits or not maybe they don't survive on their merits but if they survive on their merits that gets spread over like 5 years or something or three years or pick some it's calendarized it's not in in the next fiscal budget and it gives the illusion that that's that's in the next fiscal budget we're going to draw the reserves down to pay for all that but we're not really going to do that because you can't do that in one year in in the fiscal year we're in we're doing the preponderance of the city hall but the city hall is going to go into the next fiscal budget so all those things will do the same same thing they'll start in one fiscal budget and they'll probably go for two more fiscal budgets it could probably hit three budgets and I think if it was shown that way it would it would feel better um you know the other thing is is that um you know if you take the capital projects that are in this draft in their entirety there's a lot of capital projects in here I doubt we have the staff or the Professional Services or the engineering resources to actually implement this stuff so it's in there it looks like we're running a deficit and we have to draw the reserves down but I don't even think we could do it if we wanted to and that's more than just the three on that page that's the 10 or 15 page capital budget list for this year that's causing some of this problem and each of those projects has to S has to survive on their own Mer but you can't do it in the same fiscal year anyway thank you John Mr Lowe's yes sir um so and Patricia can correct me but we have to project out our budget or she does for you know 10 years plus okay so with those oute projects you know on the horizon and in the budget she's got that bottom line that shows goes the up and down in the reserve okay so um it it's just kind of a you can't just uh you can't just forget them and then throw them back in without really messing up the The Reserve balance in and out year can I can I speak to that yeah sure go ahead I don't I don't have it in front of me so I'm going to talk on the top of my head the the fiveyear capital budget the fiveyear look ahead showed an enormous number in the next fiscal budget a a phenominally unbelievably large number and then in 26 27 28 29 the number comes way down so just looking at that I'm going to spend this much this year and then I'm going to be boom boom boom boom boom that doesn't make any sense to me it you can't you can't run a city that way I think that the capital is part of what's making this not fit we're going to have Patricia uh respond to that for you there's grant funding type stuff and going in there of course thank you sorry uh Tim tunel Coco Beach I think we have a motion on the table at this point about moving the parking lot uh parking garage to the right or did I miss the vote on that no it was just the marina it was just moving the marina out it wasn't the parking garage no sure it was thought it was a parking garage too okay yeah yeah that's right yeah it was both so we've talked so long and gotten the weeds talked about 10 different things yeah we got distracted you know we we need to and i' I've talked about this in the past about having a uh a meeting to train all the Commissioners and all the other boards on Robert's Rules so he can run the meetings smoothly and stay organized otherwise it just goes off in the weeds that's all I got to say thanks Tim uh this the reason why I did want public comment was because of the parking garage questions but I want Patricia to answer him for his question there so one of the things that show the fiscal year 25 budget to be so much significantly larger um for the capital is for the mck capping project it's budgeted at $10 million in expenses it's also fully Grant funded so if that project goes forward it has offsetting revenues so you'll see that on the revenue side you see it on the expenditure side if we don't go forward they both fall off so it doesn't really show that full impact of the capital costs that will come out by or be covered by taxpayers dollars as that one is fully fully Grant funded and that doesn't affect the reserve number for that year because they're fully offset correct um and that's kind of the point of also when you've got the grant funding you've got the revenue coming in you've got the expenditures going out without both of them they're both gone you know if you lose the grant funding then we usually don't move forward with the project um same with the the you know talking about using Debt Service um you know the the thing about that is it moves that cost to the users over the upcoming years instead of putting that burden fully on this year's taxpayer um so there's a lot of that actually there's a lot of advantages to to using debt financing for such large major projects such as this it isn't because it isn't because the commission is being uh not managing the money it's actually just the opposite and so by moving it out over a 20-year period it's next year's taxpayer and the taxpayer is the year after and so as that facility is being used it's being paid for those those projects can it's they're not in the budget at this point in and of itself so at any point the commission can give direction even after the budget is adopted so even if the commission says we want to adopt this um with those projects in and debt financing in and we get into the new f schal year and they say nope we don't want to go forward that's okay then we just do a budget amendment we take the revenue the debt proceeds out we take the cost out we amend the budget so it's it's not even at that point it's not a completely we're done but but we we just gave direction to take out the four that's fine you and and deferred a year so you can on your 10-year plan you can move it out a year see how that affects the revenue for which one for the the the the Marine at 45 44 445,000 and the 7.8 for the parking garage got it what did we actually yeah at Mr Tom's point I don't think we voted on that have we yeah that that's not even in comment on talking about this yet go back two sles the motion was to move the 445 and 7.8 out at least a year but this isn't even in the budget this is a recommendation yeah but it plays into the numers okay all right it is in there at this all right let's get this moving all right anybody have any more comments about this specifically just this specific specifically for this vote all right come on vot we didn't vote for this we no we didn't second so or tver 178 June drive so um if you do move the parking garage out I think um what you could do is uh have the parking staff start to track the utilization um they're driving around they could start to see the utilization of the current structure and parking in the area and then when you come back in a year uh considering reconsidering the garage then you should have a pretty good idea on you know if it's needed or or capacity issues um so and the Maria study I mean I understand what you're saying Mr Mayor is I mean the feasibility study will determine if that money is ever spent so why not just keep it in the feasibility study comes out very promising then everything's all set up and ready ready to go um and like you said if the feasibility study doesn't come back good then you simply don't don't spend the money but as far as feasibility I I do have one suggestion I have done a little research you know the city of Titusville has a Municipal Marina it's run by professional management company I looked at professional management company they seem to have3 what's that F3 yeah uh I don't know if if that's an opportunity to uh work with them because again City staff can get it's all public record it's a City municipal Arena the city staff should be able pull a lot of numbers for you guys and start to give you an idea the financial potential Financial impact and maybe those the F3 folks I hope I'm not they haven't already been here but maybe there's an opportunity for them to talk to you guys as well so uh just sharing some thoughts and then uh I want to give shout out to Wayne the only city manager I've ever had willing to talk to me on a Sunday he knows if he calls it's going to be a long conversation not 30 seconds so appreciate what Wayne is doing and then uh uh Wes gets back to me pretty darn quickly when there's issues I think sometimes within minutes so it's really nice to see how uh well things are going so little off topic but thanks for your time appreciate it there was somebody else back it wasn't about this though all right so we need we need to vote on this so um so vote on removing the marina feasibility study and the parking garage defer it defer defer it um yeah defer it honestly I wouldn't mind deferring the fire station as well I hate to say it but i' I'd like to keep the money in the reserve more than but we'll vote on these we got this for the vote so uh all in favor of deferring the Marina and the parking garage I I I okay and the reason why I went for that four 41 uh uh in favor of uh deferring it got that the reason why I voted to defer the marina studies because there's a lot of people that just don't understand the whole thing about it and rather than confuse everybody and I decided to defer it to see to wait till after this um feasibility study comes back so I had a question yes um for Wayne actually um that doesn't stop you from moving forward and like we agreed to in the last meeting to uh research the feasibility of the parking garage and the financials of it and the partnership right we can still move forward with that yes we can yeah I think absolutely should um I think you absolutely should why not see if it's feasible it's not going to cost us a penny so go ahead and do it you got to do because you know why not it's all ready to go anyway yeah so so carollyn we can do that inhouse you guys can do it right yeah so so before you go into this slide patri may I may yeah before you go into this slide Patricia are these things these options and recommend ation that are all [Music] reductions are they all baked into trying to meet the current millit rate that we proposed yes so they they have they was have to happen to meet the the proposed money that's coming in for this one for the mill okay for this one and this everything is based on current M so go back to that slide okay so based on the fact that we deferred the potential debt for the for the uh Marina and the parking garage does that change any of these numbers no because it'll just it'll just reduce the revenue reduce the expenditure the effect on reserves is nothing okay so taking this from the top down um I'm good with we it seems like we do tennis court improvements every other year resurfacing new lighting you new building you know it just seems to never end and it's always expensive and it you know we're not getting the we got a company that's running the place it's a good amenity for the residents and the local community but if we can defer it till 2026 without you know tearing up the place I'm good with that um the LED Board sign replacement that's one so it's not pulling the project it's just that recent um information uh brought the quote down a little bit lower than what was brought to you last meeting it was 100,000 but recent quotes are closer to the 75 so we can reduce that um the same with the accounting software we put in for 800 initially we've been reaching out to financial governmental financial accounting software companies and we think we can get it much closer to um 500 hopefully less but we think we can reduce that so what you're saying is the expense cost adjustment for the sign replacement is basically already realized that that's going to be reduced by 25,000 yeah I've made that adjustment in the the kind of looking and looking at the budget and changing that I've actually gone in and changed that right Capital projected cost and then there's 300,000 that you believe would be uh reduction in that accounting software replacement upgrade yes okay the 280 deferring the financial the fire Capital annual allocation this is what commissioner Hutcherson brought to our attention where we were budgeting a million dollar truck replacement over a period of I think four or five years that has been removed from the 25 budget because that purchase is not going to happen in 25 okay the capital expenditure is going to happen it's just a Time phasing put in the year we're going to expend it okay so so and then the last one is just asking each of the Departments to look at their operating budgets again and see if they can do some Cuts there C so besides the 32,000 all the rest of them are basically given that are going to happen yes okay I'm good with that so some other things that you need to consider as we go through this budget process and these are not reflected in anything that you've seen so far is labor negotiations with the police and fire unions is currently on under underway um I don't have any idea of how that's going to go what what is Citywide wedge labor wedge that's built into this budget Citywide we've done a 4% Cola with 2% at the start of the fiscal year and 2% 6 months after okay so this is growth beyond that 4% the budget has a provision for that 4% potentially right is that a correct statement that's correct potentially could have um additional costs to personnel as a result of the labor negotiations let's say let's say the labor negotiations say that basically to keep our people working police fire whoever um that we're going to have to agree to a 10% increase to make them competitive across the county based on all the benefits and and whatever so if that's what it comes down to and we only plan 4% so then and we already passed the budget we already passed the Mig um so then we' got to make cuts to cover that 6% that is correct is that correct that is correct so that's a that's a threat to us absolutely so as a benchmark I recall one of the emails the 4% was 800k is that an accurate statement 4% Citywide was 800k to give you a benchmark of what it would be what the challenge would be right over and above that so just food for thought it would be another 1.2 million right which I depending right when we when we started so big picture what we're talking about tonight is is millage rate right and what we're seeing in the budget is effectively from the Department saying if I were to give you my ideal budget so that I could optimize operations and do the best job I believe I can do in the most responsible way this is not saying if I really had to tighten the belt they were trying to give us the most accurate look at an optimized performance right I think it's kind of the middle ground there I thought I they try this year I think especially they've tried really hard to give you what they think their true costs are going to be um which is why when I talked about asking them to reduce their operating it's such a small number I don't know that they're going to be able to optimally be able to to provide the services if they do much of a cut because they've actually there's not a significant increase in the operating budgets if you look at the 24 and you compare that to 2025 proposed just for just for hysterical purposes um you know going through budget Cycles in the past and and Patricia was here we've had city managers that saw the writing on the wall you know we were going to overly raise taxes or whatever and they put all the Departments into a 10% reduction Challenge and what Patricia is saying is challeng challenging them to a 2 to 3% reduction is realistic you know a 10% reduction is probably not realistic and then you just def first stuff and you end up with a bow wave and then you got to pay me now or pay me later type of situation yeah and I and I definitely can appreciate that but I think what I came into or came out of last meeting from was that the budget numbers that this is based on the discussion this is based on is give me the best look at what you should have where we in an ideal Financial State this is not hey go tighten the belt now where you're saying 2 to 3% would be coming back from show me what you really believe you need to operate optimally this is not us coming to our department head saying hey give me your bare bones minimum to survive next year like they're giving us this look because it allows us to have the context we need from a millage discussion perspective it's not because they're saying hey you give me this or I'm broke kind of really where you're going to see those cuts Capital they've already really cut the operating they've put a lot of thought into it this year and so it in the past I think think there's been a lot more well I think I need you know 5,000 so I'm going to put in 6,000 so when I'm asked to cut I've got something to cut they didn't do that this year yeah no and I know they have sharpened the pencil and have Exquisite detail in what they're putting in front of us I just wanted to make sure what we asked them for and what they gave us yeah when when I ask them to cut it's probably not going to be an operating it's probably going to be in their capital and they're going to be pushing it out to Future years it doesn't go away they're just going to push it out and and realistically what you're saying is that only accounts to $3 32,1 120 because your operating budget is not that large total for the general that's that's first me to say I don't mean to say to the public that $32,000 is negligent but across the Departments that that is pretty bage I me our highest highest C Personnel is Personnel is our highest pretty much so so back [Music] to most of that increase that you see in this is you're going to see it in your maintenance and your utilities and we cannot control that Coco is increasing the Water by 5% FPL is I think around 7 um and I think the garbage was I forgot now but the uh we'll be getting the we should be getting the final uh number for the increase for the garbage shortly um other factors is the final 2024 expenditures and revenues are not known yet we only have estimates if we come in over budget on the revenues that's going to improve our funds forward or ending Reserve balance and if we come in under on our expenditures that will also improve the ending Reserve balance and our funds forward so under budget and expenditures over on revenues will help the problem as we move forward we just don't know what that is yet we also do not know the final cost increase for the health care although a preliminary estimate is around 3.5% workers comp we don't know what that's going to be and we may have some adjustments to the property liability insurance costs so these the this these issues and these recomendation recommendations and considerations are all based on if we keep the military the same correct everything everything that we're looking at is looking at a millage rate that's that's the same as as this year okay I'm okay with the with with her recommendations I mean I'm okay with all that um the recommendations already built into that but balanced at when you're looking at at these numbers here those recommendations have already been included with the exception of the the 32,000 we haven't asked that yet let's just clear the air um the current millage rate as we move forward to this year is going to be a tax increase it always it's always considered a tax increase unless we go with roll back so have you come up with a percentage on that yet have I calculated the amount that we'd have to reduce the budget if we that I'm saying it's it's a math question okay based on the projected uh adum tax income at that Mill grate what's the percentage increase from last year I don't know that off the top of my head I didn't calculate that cuz we we only have preliminary numbers and that'll change 8% that's a tax growth based on the same rate on uh what slide is that I didn't have a number it's still a tax increase whether or not we raise the military because property taxes go up slide is 8% does that say that it's a that you're saying you haven't calculated that that's maybe not that would represent an 8% increase in Revenue I don't know what you're if you're asking me what the percentage increase is for the tax increase I I I don't know that it's exactly 8% that that's a I look at that I look at the trim I follow the trim right right all all I'm saying is you know just clear the air what what's the increase overall in the adum taxes that are coming into the city you know everybody's different based on their exemptions and stuff uh or non exemptions but the overall increase is to the city budget from ading taxes is for that chart would be 8% Revenue but that that doesn't necessarily mean it's an 8% tax increase CU I have to look at the the trim numbers okay but when we get when we go for the final on this in the commission it's going to say you voted for this millage rate it's a tax increase of x% when I do the advertisement prior to the second public hearing prior to September 19th it will list all of the final numbers that are being presented in the final budget and it will include what the tax increase is and by percentage by percentage and by amount by amount and and as of this chart it's somewhere in the 8% range okay yeah so just for anybody that might be listening so the city has lots of expenses I mean Personnel is the biggest expense um all 8% of that isn't you know we just heard it 4% of it's going toward salaries uh over the past year it's very likely that they their expenditures to live on have gone up more than 3% um materials that the city uses and everything else and all their contracts and everything the product gone up more than 4% but anyway 8% is not like a wake inflated number based on the current inflationary cycle that we're in so I would I would say that that's reasonable can I ask you a question Patricia how would your recommendations change and how would our reserves change if you were to raise like say uh make it 6.2 so for every quarter uh increase to the millage it represents about 800,000 in addition adum tax revenue okay so every quarter okay increase in millage is about 800,000 how would I if so that's let's say 6.2 644 so that's approximately 64144 it by 800 ,000 800,000 so do how would your recommendations change like would we have would it go more to towards reserves or should we put it if we had the extra 800 or I mean even exploring a little bit more like 6 point 23 or something or 25 would it would the recommendations change like this list change or would we put it towards reserves I wouldn't other than you know the Department's reducing their operating budgets I I wouldn't change anything on this list necessarily um deferring the tennis courts um I I talked to um project manager Scott Maxum he said USA is still willing to to do the grant funding um in fiscal year 26 and he's going to look for other options other potential Grant um he has no guarantee that he's going to find grants but he's going to look for other grants to help defer some of that cost or cover some of that cost to us um but I I think that that is a project that's not going to go away um I think those other um courts are going to have to be redone and I think we're going to have to put the you know the the money into fixing those lights and the the storm water issues out there so I think that's not a project that will completely go away I think it's just going to be one that you defer um the other three they're just they don't need to be those really don't need to be in there for the fiscal year 25 so I wouldn't change that you know some of the things that I would suggest that you could use with additional funding is um I've heard comments about the need for additional um Road improvements or sidewalk improvements um we do have some funds um in the current capital but it's uh like Blakeley and there's a small amount for projects but um I'm not sure if that's enough to meet the needs of the city but to counter that is I'm not sure if you have Staffing time to do more than you've already got in there would it help our Reserve situation MH yeah would it with the exture possibly would you recommend that going straight to reserves is that how it works the commission can make that decision they could make the decision to go with a higher millage with the additional funding to go into reserves you can stipulate that and and tonight when you set the maximum millage that doesn't mean that you have to use the maximum for your proposed and you don't have to use the maximum for your final budget it just is you can't go over that number what what sort of a migrate are you looking at to put the reserves where we need to be if we make the cuts um if we make the cuts and the changes you will be just slightly .6 yeah just slightly um under what you would need for your minimum Reserve requirement um we would do enough Cuts either in capital or I mean somewhere to make up that difference the problem is that even with those cuts you're just at the minimum requirement what if we push back on that 5 million for the fire department put it back to the next year it it's not going to change this number because I'll take take the revenue out and I'll take the expenditure out and the reserve number won't change okay we can't spend that money elsewhere cuz it's covered by debt so the revenue coming in so it's not like we can defer that in that 5 million freed up to spend elsewhere okay because it was paid for by De all right would you have to make that was a cash I thought that was a cash thing sorry would you have to make all those cuts if we were to fund the reserve with an increase in millage no because at this point we're we're pretty close to having a balanced budget pretty close so we could cut enough to get it balanced um without using anything additional to to balance the budget so you could increase it and say it's all to go into the Reserve balance and we could still balance with based on what we're looking at right now and you're confident that if we did keep the military at the same that you would be a able to um meet our requirements for it's just cutting we have to we have to make it work basically yeah so we just defer capital okay well you know the things that I can't control is I I don't know I don't know these things all right I attached copies of this um just so you can see some of the other funds none of these funds use uh well the CRA uses the Tiff fund so it is impacted by the adum um but the the rest of these are not not none of the funding comes from adorm taxes um this is special Revenue fund this is the building permits and inspections this is your Capital Improvement Pro projects fund so this is your city hall construction and your Bicentennial Park this is the utility system fund this is a user fee funded fund and the storm water fund um this uh just to make a note does reflect the um increase in rates that will be brought to you on um Thursday's meeting so this will adjust based on how that meeting goes all right thank you Patricia Y and uh let's take some ask another question yeah you may what if we keep everything the same that we're looking at now how does the projection of our reserves next year look like how does it look for next year yeah so I know we we we've in the past we've extrapolated out to see what it looks like this year to next year are we going to be worse off with the reserves or if you the year exactly as projected then you would end the year with the 8.7 million that you're required for your minimum uh Reserve balance that becomes your funds forward and so then it's just a matter of how you budget for your revenues and how you budget for your expenditures in the future years so as long as you're balancing your budget but keep in mind the city commission has um adopted the ordinance that that an an assigned balance will go up by 1% next year so your reserve requirement will go up um in addition as your operating um personnel and debt service costs go up so does the reserve requirement so your reserves next year will be by necessity will have to be higher and with the uncertainty of Labor negotiations that could affect our balance budget these other things yeah so anything that gets negotiated that is greater than the 4% that is in this will require Capital to be reduced okay so we'd have to cut more then yes than what we're seeing here yes depending on how those negotiations go would you recommend having some push in for that and push if we like say we up the millage rate to allow for that would would you recommend something like up to up the millage to cover the cost of the Personnel costs and police and fire I don't have a recommendation okay um I mean you could look at it that way you could look at it for funding the capital outlay I you could look at it as building a stronger Reserve balance I I don't really have a recommendation for you I think that's a decision of the commission but I will say that you know if we can't come to an agreement with the the at the negotiation table it it could have an effect and could reduce the capital so it's a Known Unknown we have a $19 million capital budget it's going to come out of that right as we move things out that's going to cover that pressure but of that1 million you know know we've already identified that we're going to move out right the 5 million the 12 million yeah it's going to have to come out of the 12 million so it's a sizable Network to pull from that's why I said 4% represents 800 Kish City Y thank you Patricia y uh let's take some public comment um go ahead we'll go Tim first um Tim tumelty Coco Beach um Patricia I have a question on the uh operating budget is there operations 13 million is that correct and you have um this number 32,000 is that two 2 to 3% of 13 million because that's 320,000 it's not it's not 32,000 if it's if you're using the operating budget of 13 million 2 to 3% is going to be over 300,000 so that's a difference there so that's another reduction um good catch are we going to I mean you guys are going to kind of set a millage rate going forward I gave you all a sheet of paper with um your properties market value commissioner's market value yours is on there too I put mine on there as well it's all public record you could look at um Bard County Property Appraisers and get this information that's where I pulled it it's not some private thing that you can't look at so um our millage was in 2012 is 4.9 this year it's 6.1 that's an increase over the last 11 years of approximately 1.1 1.2 which is a 0.1 change in millage roughly every year and that equated to a difference for all of us about the average is somewhere around $300 increase from 2012 property taxes to last year's property taxes so in 2012 I paid x amount this year I'm paying roughly $300 more than I did 12 Years ago and that's based on an increase in millage of 1.1 approximately 1.1 which is turns out to be less than 1% increase in taxes per year so you got to think about that uh one more thing I want to talk about while I'm up here and it has to do with the golf course there's a lot of talk about the golf course and how it's losing money money monetarily financially you know right at the base here in in in the golf course it's losing money um but in overall as an amenity it's an amenity to the community if the golf course wasn't here the property values in the community all of Coco Beach would probably be much lower as a matter of fact I looked it up it's somewhere around 9% so if we reduce the property values in Coco Beach by 9% that's a decrease in adorm tax of $1.6 million so I just want to bring that to your attention before you all go hey we got to do something you know get rid of the golf course and all that we'll never do that maybe making the golf course more efficient might be a better way to answer thank you um yeah go uh yeah go ahead John John Los 444 Dempsey Drive Coco Beach tonight's purpose is to set the max Mill rate which speaks to the adalum taxes and if the adalum tax revenue is not the biggest Revenue stream the city has it's it's it's got to be in the top two if it's not number one I don't know if it's number one but so we're talking about taxes to Residents and not just residents but Property Owners so that's our job tonight and we have to do our job but I hope behind the scenes there's an equal amount of diligence that's being put into looking at user fees so not only are we going to pass the burden of increased operating maintenance and capital costs onto not only residents but it's it's not just residents it's Property Owners it's everybody who's not even in this room we all share the burden of increased costs but behind the scenes we need to be looking at user fees to make sure that the amenities storm water everything that's supported by user fees make sure we're maximizing that Revenue too in the last several years I attended a couple meetings that were here in the commission room the two that come to my mind was one on golf uh Golf Course fees and the study was presented by a lady that said we're not maximizing our fees during the peak time of the year so that's a user fee review we weren't as efficient as we should be I saw another one on storm water how the storm water was running a deficit because hadn't adjusted our rates for several years and I think that's been corrected too but my point is as we look at the ad valorum we should make sure that we're maximizing user fees too it seems like it's fair to spread the spread the wealth across everybody thank you thank you um Lou Lou Becket all right so yall are going to set a maximum millage rate based on what's presented in a budget and first of all I want to thank you all for what what you do for the city um but again I'm going to convey my dissatisfaction with continued fa failure of this City's fiducial responsibilities to its residents and businesses there are some problems I've been just about an hour because I couldn't find this information till this afternoon looking at what was posted online and there were some problems in page 30 which represents the police budget those problems include furniture and equipment on line item for $242,000 don't we think that's a little excessive $89,000 for new weapons budgeted at at $1,500 a piece when I went on to online without a quantity discount and found that what was being asked for only cost $11,000 actually $960 a piece $10,000 in subscriptions what are we organ we paying $10,000 for magazines I don't know what Support Services is but I would assume that if it had anything to do with Personnel that that would have been put with the Personnel Services in addition to these issues there's an irresponsibility or irresponsible policy of allowing these police officers take their vehicles Cruisers home at a cost if you do 22 mil a day because the two closest cities for them to go to aside from cape cape canero are 11 miles away at 65 cents a mile that exceeds $250,000 per year cost to the city that's not reflected in any budget anywhere not in the police budget not in the fleet budget and if you were to keep those vehicles in the city and assign them to officers when they come on duty you could have saved at $72,000 each for each unnecessary Vehicles that's 28 vehicles that given my information that there's 43 officers that have 43 cars that would be 28 cars at $72,000 a piece that's $288,000 that could have been saved and put in their in their pay in their pockets as additional pay that 10% you're talking about that would have been you know in a year's time that would have been a 40% increase in their pay okay none of this money is accounted for May I continue uh how much longer do you got not long cuz some of it we've already discussed as long as it's quick okay uh why are we spending $5 million again on another fire station we've got a brand new one on page 40 Fleet Services $1.5 million for furniture and equipment I don't know where $1.5 Million worth of furniture goes or equipment goes in in the facilities we have for for Fleet Services whereas $400,000 on maintenance over and above the payroll cost for Fleet Services I mean that that's $400,000 we're spending to maintain vehicles that doesn't include the payroll for the people doing the work on them $1 million on vehicles and machinery what are we buying that's a you know a million dollars for Fleet Maintenance I I I don't understand this um I've already talked about the the guns I that doesn't make any sense and on top of that wasn't it just a few years ago that we bought two guns for every off already went to the guns sir let's just wrap it up all right well I'm finished thank you okay thank you thank you so much and your concerns are are valid and if anybody um I can answer these questions so if anybody here want to engage you're you're welcome to if not we'll keep going all right uh let me go through this next one uh clous yeah I figured you'd probably wanted to I saw you put your hand back up so um KB thinker 197 o Lane U clearly the budget presented today the starting point was keeping the military uh and kudos to you to making that happen um what I'm concerned about is there are so many unknowns and I've done many budgets in my life you're going down a year where you have unknowns that will blow the your budget out of the water so you're knowing right now or going towards making more Cuts somewhere else some of the costs you can't control usually in a budget you probably can't control all about 15 or 20% of the r because the rest is fixed cost ain't going to go away so uh I would urge you to at least go a quarter point higher get the 800,000 if you don't need him in the year if the miracle happens and you don't need them put them to uh put them to uh pay to put them into the the funds where they could help you get something out of it but keep in my opinion go a little higher get that breezing room into your budget so when something happens you're not going to go oh well we ain't going to get another car for the police or we going want to ask the somebody else to not do anything or work for well never mind you thank you um Marge Snider I don't know if she's still here I think she already had her question orison did you want anything else to say or you're good okay and Rick are you okay right time yeah well you see when I wrote the topic is it okay to speak to that or not I can't about the boat ramp oh the boat ramp um let me start on that is that in the budget or not no let me start on that before you no okay I don't want to be off topic this time uh city manager um the boat ramp all Lane is in the budget for 2026 and it's at $75,000 is there any potential for maybe getting some I would think because that is a public vote ramp that it would be eligible for fine money uh do you think there's any potential to flag that for bringing it into next year's budget definitely whether whether it will will qualify for fine funding um you'd never know until you to apply there was an issue in the past by fine whether that was actually a public it wasn't an issue in the past so you require commercial usage if you took the fine money yes I don't think we want that though because this does it doesn't have the capacity or anything that's the only thing sorry to jump in so the bottom line is move it up I'll take it we won't accelerate I'm just saying can you just for me before we get to the final budget can you work with Patricia and see if there's a way to squeeze that $75,000 into next fiscal year I can do anything for you well you can present it in the final budget we don't need to vote on it does that satisfy you orison yeah well I mean so I appreciate it it's for the residents too you know you saw the petitions and everything and something that we've been really waiting on and I think it's a good investment in the community so it is okay all right let's keep moving thank you that'd be a great thing and then I just want to say you know if Wes needs more guns let's get him some more guns and how much they cost do you need $2,000 guns we can get some of those machine guns all right well if you need some just make sure it's it's in the budget all right why don't we just have donations for people in the city Rick why would you ever give up gun let's let's keep moving Rick uh Rick Anderson 1800 M Causeway and a lot of the concerns I came in with have been answered which is a good thing but one of the one of the line items that does concern me a little bit and going along with what my friend John said um the sprinkler system on the golf course uh last year we were presented with this dire scene that that we had to immediately replace the sprinkler system because it was falling apart so we put $800,000 in there and now that that didn't get spent and now there's another $800,000 request in there this year and I'm assuming there's going to be another $800,000 in there next year so this is two .4 million for sprinklers on the golf course um I I again if if user fees have got to somehow pay for it and if they can't then we really need to examine that and I'm really questioning why the initial $800,000 wasn't spent if it was if it was that much of an emergency um as far as the setting the mill rate a little bit higher I'd also like to remind you all that you did pass what amounted to a resolution but you did pass a a a law resolution that you were going to establish a fund a rainy day fund or a savings account fund to uh toward future Capital um Investments and I don't see any I in my opinion if that fund was established there should be a it should be a fund with a zero balance in it showing on the budget documents and then if you choose to fund it you choose to fund it but um if you make a resolution like that I think that maybe an effort should be made to fund that and I don't see how that's all going to be done unless a millage is bumped up a little bit thank you Rick go ahead Patricia so regarding the sprinkler system your sprinkler system is currently not functioning um hasn't been for over a year um I think layed the directors here yeah so we budgeted to do uh the replacement of the sprinkler system nine holes per year over a three-year period each of those nine holes will take about 800,000 to replace the entire sprinkler system um by the time we got through the process um we were at a point where getting the contractor to come in with they were at their peak season so one the cost was much more expensive two the availability was almost non-existent so if we were to wait until the fall we would get a better price and we would have a choice of vendors because they're now in their offseason and more available to perform the work so what you're seeing in the budget is taking this year's 800 and using it and doing um a full 18 holes in the upcoming fall but it's still using the same funds we didn't spend them because we had problems getting the vendor and two because we couldn't get the cost if we waited and did n the two both the 24 and the 25 sections all at once we got a better pricing and we have more options with vendors so it's just trying to work smarter to achieve the same results thank you let me com to that um J somebody's phone is Left Behind I say a comment to that you know just from my perspective that's exactly right it fell in our favor it wasn't planned that we were supposed to do 800,000 last year it fell out we can bundle it this year but that was why I was hesitant on the marina and um I guess just the marina because I think we've got a lot of scope that and the skate park is another one that we're not executing on necessarily to plan so I don't want to put another I guess is the fire State the second fire and Marina it's a lot of projects we have to execute rather than just Reser you got have the number of people to do it yeah and I'm not pointing fingers I'm just saying let's not put another project on top of two that are already delinquent that's my point on that but thank you for bringing that up I feel like the user fee thing it's same thing we kind of arbitrarily set those last year we had this Hit List yeah and it's nothing that's come out of thank you Janice okay so um Janice Scott Coco Beach um I'm really glad that one of the Avid golfers brought up the uh please don't close any the golf course because it raises all our property values so just for the record in history when that Golf Course uh increased in size and they built this Taj Mahal here my father was an avid golfer he could never get me to come out here and play golf those guys liked it the way it was they didn't want the golf course increased oh it was going to bring business to the hotel hotels they were going to have all kinds of junkets and so forth so I think what I'd like to explain to the golfers what the rub is is I'm an avid Gardener and I pay for reclaimed water I want to know how many golfers do not subscribe to reclaim water which has gone up over the years from $5 to now 15 and I hope on Thursday when it's on the agenda that you all will not increase that fee because it's unfair to us who like the reclaimed water and um I'd like the golfers though who don't pay for reclaimed water to see how it feels to sub subsidize someone's else's Recreation that's what the rub is here is I don't play golf and I really do resent having to subsidize everybody who goes out there and hits a ball then the wind blows through takes all those um nuts down from the dry driving range so who gets to pay to put them up back and replace them all it's not the golfers it's it's the rest of us who don't play golf we we subsidize that and that's what the rub is and I wish you all would come up with some really creative ideas about how to stop it thank you thank you yes sir no wait wait Tim let me he's been wait okay got to leave it until I do [Music] so you can put me on that side all I'll it 2100 North Atlantic Avenue I've been coming to budget meetings since I first moved here in 2014 full-time and at least for the last three years several of the items well for the 14 years and Tim's earlier point the budget's only gone up like 1% a year that's because it's been rolled back every single year always at the end everybody goes and let's line this item out this item out this item out and believe me it gets down to more than just $11,000 guns gets down to $35 uh permit fees and that's why it was only 1% but all those things keep getting rolled and rolled and rolled I mean she's been asking for software for at least three years always gets lined out the police vehicles got lined out last year they're back here this year you're going to go another year somebody has to pay it eventually to run the city the way it's well run by the people that know how to run it give you a budget and it's your responsibility to listen to them and give them what they need to run the city not micromanage them but give them what they need because they're producing the results that you want right and you did make a commitment to keep reserves cuz it only takes one bad storm and all those plans go down the Grain and you're still not reserved enough to recover from the three fiscal Years it'll take you to get that money back so keep that in mind too thank you sir have two more meetings to go through stick to your guns and give them what they want and more thank you any other public comment so the business at hand is to set the tenative millage rate and then to confirm the follow on budget meeting days I asked Patricia something about the before we get Patricia can I ask ask you question um so you said that a quarter of a mill equals about 800,000 yes okay and I remember the last the last one of these you gave us in the last meeting we our Reserve said for the general fund the way it was set at right at that point in time was 3.4 million yes and we needed about 6.7 to hit the 19% yeah right so um um I was thinking um of proposing to raise the millage weight rate uh 0.1 which would give us 3.2 million rate 800 Time 4 320k so it's like from 6.16 to 6.26 right so 0.1 that's yeah 800 * 4 is 3.2 million and the reason being um I I would say allocate all that to the reserve that almost balances what we the difference from what you originally told us we had to what we need the 19% and um just about I think it's like a 3.3 difference that way we can have a cushion like so we can deal with the uncertainties um that you listed 1% 3.3 only one's going to be 300K not 3.2 million okay quarter is 800,000 about 800 so if I if you raise it a 0.1 right would be less it's l Point wait so 0.1 times one quarter point okay so that's like 300 and something thousand that 350,000 0.1 is 360,000 yeah how much roughly because we don't have final numbers and 320,000 just roughly you're looking at that how 3.2 yeah 0.25 increas is about 800,000 3.2 you go 1.0 not 0.1 you'd go 7.16 you need another percentage a whole other need a whole another percent 1.0 yes if you want you need like 7 7 7.16 will get you an extra 3.2 million 7.16 but I thought she said 0.1 which is 320k so a quarter of a m is 8 would be 6.16 plus 0.25 that's what we're talking about public math a quarter mil would be 0.25 0.25 which would be 6.16 plus .25 I'm doing that right right okay which would be 6.41 which would give us 800,000 roughly okay okay so and then another 0.25 would be 1.6 million which would give us 1.6 million okay all right so well I can't see okay I can't see raising the whole point but I want to propose raising it at least like5 to give us 1.6 million put just towards the reverse the reserves to give us some relief on the reserves and spread it out to wherever it needs to go for the Inc certainties at least set that as your max Mill and between now and the final you can opt to go lower so technically and Karen and our City attorney is this a meeting that we set the maximum that is correct okay but that it wasn't clear by the agenda so I just wanted everybody to know the proposed millage which is the same as the max it can't go up from the correct you can go down you can't go up I'd like to propose make a motion to propose 6.6 mil 6.66 or up half a that's not a good number put up go up half a mil and put that straight to the reserves you want to do 666 oh we just say we'll put a half a mill 6 6644 what 6644 I think we only need we can only do two decimal points right well well no we go out four oh you go out four all right I got a okay I got a motion do I got a second so welcome to my world Caroline you don't motion dies for lack of a second all right motion dies for lack of a second any other motions I moveed to approve the millage rate Carri forward from last year 61644 you're saying approve the max at that not approve because we're not approving the millage rate I'm sorry approve the ceiling Mill ceiling 6.1 644 which was last year's second all right I got a motion in a second any comment so it's it's it's a bit of a struggle right because I think there's a lot of valid comments being made of we're putting a ceiling on it not not voting on The millage right and so with uncertainty associated with the the labor negotiations and things like that we've got to be smart right we've got to provide ourselves some room but at the same time it's just like giving yourself two weeks to get a project done it'll take you two weeks if you up the the millage you are most likely going to come in at that number right whatever you set your budget at and so there's a balance there um weighing in the fact that we've got a city who's facing significant inflation right so it's your material costs it's your it's going to be your cost of contracts your Capital everything and we've got city employees who are themselves facing the same inflation in their homes right so your your your pay rates have to adjust so that they can remain as an employee of the city or they've got to go somewhere else but at the same time we've got folks on fixed income who are residents who are now going to have to pay the increase we've got families who are moving in here and and I appreciate what Tim had put together um I think there's a couple items in there that could be adjusted um there's two folks that are paying 125% more than everybody else and 325 more than the average rate of increase and it's going to be the people who came in to Coco Beach more recently right A lot of them are going to be the young families and and having young families coming into Coco Beach is a good thing but they their budget and costs are going to be higher and so where they take it on the nose with a millage increase you're not going to get the statistical increase across families and residents you're going to have some people it's going to be harder for some people it's going to be easier for so I'm just saying I I tend to agree with a lot of the discussion and not all of it has been you know congruent that there's sides to this and I just I'm open to the millage increase but I think we've got or millage ceiling increase but we've got to remember that if we increase it unless we're careful we're most likely to meet the increase and it has impacts for the city and it has impact for the for the residents and business owners of the city commission Jackson my experience is that anytime that a increase in the Mage rate has been a maximum has been approved I've said I want to see when they bring to the next budget meeting I want to say what are you going to do with that mill rate and what are you going to do the with the lower millage rate and what are the Deltas and and it basically ended up being we got to have the higher military that was all we SED about so when you think about and I don't know if his numbers were correct and I'm not going to look them up right now but you know $1.5 million for furniture and equipment for the police station that's less than 5 years old doesn't doesn't make any sense to me I mean she must not about very good Furniture but I I think uh you know everybody at home has to tighten their belts so maybe if we pass this this millage rate that we're going to come up with some numbers that are going to meet it and if we're wrong and the labor negotiations come up with the number that's way higher than anybody would have expected to be able to keep our police and our fire here in the city doing their jobs we' got a bunch of attrition and our city employees then yep maybe we have to beat some reserves and then next year we're going to have to raise taxes because we learned our lesson so I want to support the the current millage rate which is an 8% increase so also last time the same thing the 6.1 644 was the max Millet rate M and they said the same argument well that's just the max we don't have to use it but that's where we're at so just something to consider on that as well do anybody want to comment that hasn't already commented on millage rate increase okay uh let's make a vote all in favor to keep the mill rate at to 61644 I I okay lose the vote 5 motion carries okay all right so then I'd like to make a motion to confirm the budget meeting dates for September 4th at 6:00 and September 19th at 7:00 both in 2024 say that again say that again what was that just like what it says right here confirm the budget meeting dates and times for September 4th 202 4 at 6: p.m. and September 19 okay 2024 at 7 p.m. you should bring your glasses me I know right here you want to try mine all right you'll never get seasick wearing these yeah right your eyes will get lazy start I'm looking for a second second on those dates second on the budget dat okay I got a motion and a second um for these dates all in favor all I all opposed motion passes 5 all right thank you guys for um we we already had public comment we're we're going to join your house got be more you want here go ahead come on we have we have one more public comment [Music] the reason I come up here now is because I'm John Dyan thank you John go ahead at 6:06 p.m. tonight I received an email from the C of Coco Beach says new event special meeting meeting commission for Coco Beach the date July the 16th 6:00 p.m. somebody send these emails out we didn't get waiting somebody to work on and find out why these emails come in late after the meeting is already started that just makes no sense at all going to get Wayne that works some on the software or whoever emails going out so everybody can get them people what email service do you have what email other usually I get any time C cook Beach do this one it happens every once in a while we we'll absolutely look into it just get for that I agree we absolutely will look into it that we need to give more notice obviously so thank you for that comment appreciate it me a jour