let's bring this meeting to order um Jeremy uh vice vice mayor Jeremy would you mind doing a Pledge of Allegiance please of course stand and FL IED Al to [Music] flates and justice for all uh we have invocation by Dr uh Bob from the uh Reverend servant air Ministries can we pray together father God we are just blessed here in kogo Beach the weather's been great father not too many incidents father for this spring break and the weather father from hurricanes to nil have been wonderful you have showed us favor so father we love you with all our heart and our mind you are the king of the universe you are the father of creation we bow down before you Lord saying thank you we love you Lord and father I especially give thanks for what you have done with the city council and the mayor Lord how they have gone by your guidance and your leadership Lord to be able to make right decisions first is gaining information and second is assimilating that in a way father where they could use their wisdom Lord to carry out the task they have before us and father we just ask for continued perfection protection of the people of kokab beach the businesses Lord the churches father all those that come here father to know you and to Worship You Lord that's very important so father God as they conduct business tonight Lord guide them by your Holy Spirit Guide them by the Finger of God to basically make the decisions they need to make in a speedy and fashionable manner for them we just thank you we love you and we thank you in the name of the father amen amen thank you very much city clerk roll call commissioner Jackson here commissioner Williams here commissioner Willis commissioner huton here and mayy here all right we've got a special presentation good evening mayor commission city manager City attorney citizens good evening evening hi um okay so this is one of the actually one of the most special parts of my job is to uh continue this tradition that we started several months ago and we got away from for uh a couple months for various reasons but we're back on track now um whenever we bring new officers on board in this city I think it's important our staff believes in this that um we recite aloud our code of ethics to the commission and to the citizens and the community uh quite frankly the reason for that is you need to hold us accountable I've said that many times and we need to hold each other accountable so uh all these officers have already signed this as they've been on for a while but it's important for us to do this so you know who they are and they know who you are okay so after that we will have the oath of read aloud which they will recite and then we will do a badge pinning okay so if you'll bear with me for a minute please as a law enforcement officer my fundamental duty is to serve mankind to safeguard lives and property to protect the innocent against deception the weak against oppression or intimidation and the peaceful against violence or disorder I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all maintain courageous calm in the face of danger scorn or ridicule develop self-restraint and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others honest in thought and deed in both my personal and official life I will be exemplary in obeying the laws of the land and the regulations of my department whenever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided in me and my official capacity will be kept ever secret unless Revelation is necessary in the performance of my duties I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings prejudices animosities or friendships to influence my decisions with no compromise for crime and Relentless prosecution of criminals I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear or favor malice or ill will never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith and I accept it as a public trust to be held as long as I am true to the ethics of the Police Service I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals dedicating myself before God In My Chosen profession law enforcement okay Gentlemen please raise your right hands and repeat after me I should introduce these guys first actually sorry uh sorry this is uh officer Jacob R officer Ali Zar and officer Brandon Tate that's who they are okay so please raise your right hand I didn't actually know their names okay repeat after me on my honor On My Honor I will never I will never betray my badge betray my badge my Integrity my Integrity my character my character or the public trust or the public trust I will always I will always have the courage have the courage to hold myself to hold myself and fellow officers and fellow officers accountable for our actions accountable for our actions I will always support the Constitution I will always support the Constitution of the United States of the United States and the State of Florida and the State of Florida I will in all respects I will in all respects observe and uphold observe and uphold the provisions of the charter the provisions of the charter and ordinances and ordinances of the city of Coco Beach of the city of Coco Beach and will faithfully and will Faithfully discharge the duties discharge the duties of police officer of police officer to the best of my ability to the best of my ability so help me God so help me go thank you J okay so if Jordan Zimmer Brandon's fiance could please come up major Chris Kean for officer zarif and Corporal Matt Eastman for officer wera please come around front and let's just pin these gentlemen and Rachel if you'd like to get a photo or 10 that would be great than come here you thank you guys look forward to uh having you guys with us for many years to come all right can we get a approval of the agenda I request to move item H2 from consent agenda for further discussion okay I got a request to move H2 so if we move that I'll make a motion to approve it moving H2 this working okay so I got a request to remove H2 from consent other than that i' make a motion to move the approve the agenda with a motion to approve second got a motion and a second uh all in favor I all right all right motion passes can't hear anything motion passes 5 all maybe we can get these mics turned up a little bit so we don't have to speak on top of [Applause] them all right uh um okay any public comment that about items that are not on the agenda I've got one from Isabella Capi would you mind coming up hi my name is Isabella capy I live on St CT Avenue and I'm a freedom seven student I'm here to talk about sdg6 sdg stands for sustainable development goals sg6 is one of the many goals and is known as clean water and sanitation this means that our goal is to clean contaminated water and clean germs for all this Global issue is very important because thousands of people die a day due to not having access to clean water and sanitation did you know that one in three people around the world do not have access to clean water that means that two 2.2 billion people around the world do not have access don't have access to clean water not just that but 4.2 billion people don't have access to good sanitation in conclusion sg6 is globally a big problem it needs to be fixed if we all help a little bit then the world could be a better place for all in order to increase awareness in Cocoa Beach you can put up signs on the island about picking up trash on the island and increase awareness about keeping our Waters clean mayor capy didn't you mention on a Facebook post last week that you thought educational signs about littering on the islands would be a great idea indeed I did thank you for your comment if you haven't figured out that's my daughter any other public comments about items that are not on the agenda all right moving forward uh staff reports and announcements um I just have one thing this evening uh as it stands the Space Coast Transportation Planning organization the TPO currently consists of the voting uh delegate is commissioner skip Williams the staff rep um is Jared Francis and the alternate is myself Jared Francis is leaving us so I want to appoint um Morgan Zuli she's our engineer in training and she's been involved in it she's very interested and she's doing a great job so I just want to get it on on on the agenda uh on the minutes I'm sorry that I'm appointing her concur by consensus yeah thank you okay thank you that's all I have all right uh City attorney reports that announcements okay um I'd like to ask Randy Stevenson to come up um he needs to talk with you and there wasn't time to get it on the agenda to extend the beach business licenses until the end of May they are scheduled to expire at the end of March but we won't be meeting again until April 3rd thank you thank you Mr Mayor Commissioners uh again we extended the beach business contracts to the end of March we're still pursuing discussions and trying to finalize those contracts as well as some possible modifications to the code of ordinances which is going to take a while so we're proposing to have an agenda item to on the April 4th meeting uh want to get it on the record April 4th meeting to extend those until uh the end of May we don't think it'll take us that long but we need that time to make sure we do it right and as somebody once told me today let's do it right and rather than do it twice so thank you I I think it would be appropriate to go ahead and make a motion Now versus wait until April 4th which would leave them a gap of doing business basically from the 31 first to the fourth so I make a motion to go ahead and make that extension at this time and look for a second second all right got a motion in a second to extend uh the current uh way it's going U all in favor I I I I all opposed all right motion passes 5 thank you thank you um let's see uh commission reports announcements anyone all right I yeah I got some comments so for those that you haven't been following it there's a ongoing discussions at the county level and the city for lifeguard so um some of the comments certainly are disappointing to me I think stuff's cherry pick to dist narrative uh I just want to highlight that it's it's coming out that coka beach is not in favor of lifeu and Public Safety and I want to highlight that we have $14 million in our Public Safety budget and if you look at our call Support Services about % for tourists so my rough math is 7 million we're contributing over and above a SI a comparable size city uh to host some of that so I want to get it on record that Coco Beach definitely is not against lifeguard or certainly not against public safety and just another data point to consider if you look at Belia County they have an over $10 million budget for their ocean rescue so agreed or granted it's managed at the county level so it's not the same city county dispute but they have basically five times the budget we do so I I don't think it's a city problem I think it's a county problem thank you anything else that's it actually I can add to some of those statistics um Bard County makes up about 643,000 residents Coco Beach is only 11,350 is um we actually pay the highest taxes per capita out of any other city in the County um almost 3 billion uh a year in taxable assets um so one could argue that we are definitely paying our share and taxes for for County uh um services for safety uh not only that but our small population uh 11,000 compared to the 600,000 um people that also use our beaches um I think have the responsibility of of helping chip in for the lifeguards so um that being said you know the county has an obligation I believe and we we can't be left uh holding the uh the bag for that um I wanted to also mention that we will still have lifeguards um we're we're not going without so um some of that false narrative that's being pushed out there is that um we're leaving our beaches unsafe that's not true we're still having lifeguards at all of our locations except for Sydney Fisher Park which we will be putting uh signs up that say swim at your own risk uh no lifeguards on duty so um uh Coconuts on the Beach will still have it there we'll still have them at Lorie Wilson they'll still be at the pier and they'll still be at um shepher so just so you know we also have uh our firefighters are trained um and highest high with the highest certifications of lifeguard training as well um so so our our firefighters will be on call and uh reactive to any issues that we have if we see stronger rip currents or anything like that we're going to obviously um watch and put uh closer attention to that and make sure that people are safe as well so just just to get rid of some of those um those concerns we Public Safety is our number one concern um and we're going to do our part to try to continue to keep people safe even when the county does decide to to pull back just a a followup that the city staff and Karen and the city manager are going to put out a concise uh communication tomorrow through cbnn Facebook any other means to say where there are lifeguards what their hours of Duties days of the week are and where there aren't so it will be well communicated all right thank you guys um consent agenda okay this is the consent agenda item one approve the March 7 2024 commission meeting minutes representative city clerk Department recommendation approved item two has been removed consent agenda second got a motion and second to approve consent agenda all in favor I all opposed motion passes by o um so item removed H2 okay um this is item H2 review and approve the application form for grandfathering a vessel and or water side accessory structure that exceeds the encroachment limits established by the ordinance and was in existence as of February 15 2024 representative Randy Stevenson development services director recommendation approve move to approve ordinance 1686 he pulled it for discussion but to discuss it we need a motion in a second yeah they pulled it from consent that's the mo ordinance um grandfather didn't get a second no second I can you repeat what your motion was I said move to approve motion to approve the grand 1686 approved which is addressing the new regulations for moing and the grandfathering that's the ordinance number 1686 well that was the one that included the grandfathering anyway what this is is the approval of the application form oh approval of the application form approve the application form because it was already approved okay I'll second the got a motion and a second to approve the application form any uh comments in the in the audience this is concerning uh moing um grandfathering uh discussion yeah I know I know it was a part of the ordinance was approved I just want to go on record that I this was the component of the ordinance that I didn't like because it was beyond just we weren't reverting back to what the ordinance used to be this was added on I just want to go on record that okay I'm not for it it's already approved in the ordinance but yeah I I I had some concerns with it and I really appreciated the discussion I got to have with the the city on it that what we're what we're looking at is establishing a baseline right with the grandfathering we didn't have any records we didn't have any information on what was or was not in compliance and with this grandfathering effectively anybody who's applying for a grandfather um uh status what they're getting grandfathered will be documented will be specifically called out and on record so this is not a I'm grandfathered and I've got licensed to continue with this it is specifically for the situation you were getting grandfathered sets a Baseline and then from then on regardless if you've got grandfather if you change your status you come into compliance right so that that makes me a lot more comfortable right uh so motion a second to approve all in favor I I I all oppos n n motion passes re um new business unfinished unfinished business unfinished oh unfinished business sorry about that unfinished business okay item one discuss possible modification or elimination of the existing noise ordinance noise ordinance 1678 which was adopted 720 2023 representative Carolyn Wess City commission recommendation discuss make a comment before we make motion to discuss uh sure I will allow it okay um you know my uh take on this and I've gotten a lot of I've gotten phone calls and lots of email Communications with folks and um people think that things are better now that this ordinance is in place than they were previously um I think that the the overwhelming majority were not in favor of elimination or or modification and if anything and which isn't part of this motion U they would like to be actually more strict so you know basically you know we save some time if we just pass on it for now but Caroline it's it your will to so you just like commented and discussed without the motion we yeah I'm just I'm just letting them talk we're going to we're going to go through this whole process so um so a motion right or did I have not g get a motion on this I I mooved to discuss okay and you said you got a second or no well do we move to discuss or do we move to approve it and then disc to I guess dis what we got to do discuss because we don't have anything on the books of what we want to do so okay um I'll second all right motion a second to discuss um so I I wanted to say I'd like to I want to let you guys definitely get your your words out there because I know this is a very concerning topic and I do care about everything that you guys are going to say um but I'm hoping that with our discussion first we'll we'll talk a lot about it first it will maybe ease some of your concerns because I don't imagine that we are all on the same page with what you're seeing here okay so um let me just start off real quick with um I think that the elimination of an or an ordinance altogether is is just absolutely asking for trouble um we have to have some kind of regulation on that um now I will say we have been having some problems with with some nuisance um in my opinion some nuisance calls that were repetitive we might need to modify it a little bit but but not to make it um by any means uh uh much more LAX I I don't I don't believe that but I would like to hear Jeremy and Caroline's um view because I think these guys are are two are very far between I would imagine uh so uh first I would like to hear from Caroline and then uh Jeremy and then we'll we'll go out from there so cuz Caroline's the one that brought the the ordinance up so my main concern with this and I wasn't saying eliminate a noise ordinance altogether I was saying I just want to have discussion on improving either this one or going back to the one that's actually still on the books that we had before this it's we didn't get rid of it it's ordinance number one6 um and my main issue with this ordinance it it allows one person to rep repeatedly call and complain and end up shutting down a business um inadvertently and um causing business owners to want to sell their business and they can't run a business that can't be open and these repeated callers are I mean this this ordinance allows this to happen and um and the people who own these businesses are residents too so remember that um I hate to see businesses shut down and uh ruin our downtown I mean if you have no economy what what do you got you got a dead city um these are our own residents investing their own money in businesses to revitalize our downtown and and make our city better and better and provide the liveb music and and the atmosphere that a lot of people like and I know there's people that don't but there's a lot of people that do so that's my main issue is we we we have these repetitive callers that have the power now because of what was inated um that's allowing this to happen and I want some way to stop that to to give these people these business owners um the ability to run their business as they should I I'll say in part I I agree with you um but I have I have a feeling I'm going to in part agree with you so I mean I'm curious what are the details of6 we we beat this horse dead for 6 months last summer and there was never alternative so we kind of took what I proposed initially so I'm curious what one that I haven't done that research I'm not familiar with that it high level what is the benefit or the asset of having that ordinance my understanding what was on the books referen phonographs from the 60s so I don't think it allows people to they can still there's limitations in it to still complain if they have to but not this distance limit and times that give chronic complainers teeth to let these citations happen so I've got a briefing if if there's any other no other details but on that pulling on that thread is the ordinance that's on the books for the day with a distance and plainly audible is what was on the books and currently on the books for night so all we did was take what worked and widely recognized at night and applied it during the day so I don't think we radically changed anything it just I will say we we did add a we add 500 foot um we did add a 500 foot component to agreed but in terms of the distance and time that's the legal standard that an attorney says is legally enforcable I wouldn't do anything that's not legally enforceable I think that's more IG but that in turn caused this issue we're having where these businesses are having to shut down because of those citations because of those distances the data that I saw I've got a chart in in my deck in here it looked like there was only one citation issued in the last 8 months that was on the police records of 162 records is this your um is this your yeah that was from the data that was mine from September to March of this year 162 complaints and there was one citation issued yeah unless I read that wrong no you didn't um I actually studied this uh quite a bit not as nicely um put out as you did but um that I'll walk through these I'll yeah you want to walk through it and then and then we can kind of analyze that as we go here okay so it's just a breakdown of like I said Thank You chief for providing this data have a good um data set that we can analyze so July is period performance July to March 161 noise complaints believe it or not residential neighbor to neighbor was 36% of them so 58 of them are not going to go away it's not going to shut down businesses the top three commercial sources salty sisters 142 and Island Time those counts next door is is how many calls they had interestingly enough coconuts and Beak Shack absolutely had zero there's the raw data on the right side if you want to see it but I want all this public record but the the coconuts and Beak Shack was quite surprising because they're two of the most popular joints and they have zero calls they're enclosed maybe that's the problem uh the next one's the breakdown of the or of the complaint detail so those are the top three um I didn't want to call out my neighbors so I just call them color a b c d and e they takeway here so by color the majority of people are Anonymous so I don't know how we can mine it and say that it's a repeated callar if you look at let's just take caller a they called on salty sisters four times again I think the one citation was actually issued against salty sisters can I ask you something real quick sure so um these a b c d all the the collar is all the way to f are you saying these are these are the habitual colars basically no no those are unique callers that so caller a called four times against salty sisters in area 142 once uh but I don't want to call them out by name Unique Individuals but what you're saying also is a caller F called Island time obviously is actually a complex so that's hard to it's a large compx yeah so it's predominantly one person but there's two people that I think might call there I I can't say that definitively it's just by address and yeah I saw I it's probably 60 60 individuals at that address so the takeaway here I don't think you can claim there's harassment I don't think it's conclusive enough to say that with the anonymous counts uh the next slide again like I said what widely accepted and recognized and legal uh for what was on the books for years at night we just applied that to the daytime we talked about changing the thresholds we settled on 500 ft that was you know we had several discussions on that I potentially could be open to that but I don't know I think like I said we beat this horse last summer pretty bad um there's a narrative that it stops outdoor music I think that's again it's almost like what tobay is doing at the county level it's not it's just saying contain your stuff I mean it's noise pollution when you think about it um interesting thing the short-term rental they actually have a different ordinance that's significantly restrictor and if you want to talk about businesses the short-term rental is a business so are we going to shut them down too so it's it's we got to be careful what we ask for is if you read the short-term rental noise ordinance it says basically no noise outside the property and then my takeaway bullet there if you start the three hot buttons that we're dealing with in 2024 short-term rentals noise and lifeguard funding it's basically asking residents to relinquish our rights to privacy to peace to to funding lifeguard and I'm just not for that we're a residential town and if you want to go to the next chart you can see what really set this all off and I'll just let you guys consume that well obviously this was absolutely um I've got video here if you want to hear it s that has nothing to do with noise well it was it was loud I got a video from 2000t away I gladly play it it was loud and it this was absolutely out of hand uh I will agree with that one um I don't even think we really need to go there we all know that that's not acceptable so but is it though I no it's absolutely not it it's pornographic speech is not protected so without the ordinance it was it was to be accept stop that say again the ordinance doesn't stop that any any band in any bar can play that that Ordnance does not stop that but I remember back in what December or January when I brought up to discuss this and we had businesses come up and and talk about their issues that I'm talking about again and you said you were willing to help and discuss it and now you're saying you're not well he did did say he might be willing to to talk about it okay that's fine well that's what I wanted to do is discuss um I I mean I have instances where my band was playing at salty sisters we played lower than acoustic acted and they were getting calls to me that's harassment and it's happened several times and they've had to shut down for other bands too where like they were shut down on days where like another band another week didn't get called on so what what is the Rhyme or Reason to that um and it is repeat guys it's a repeat I know there's somebody on ailia that keeps calling um I I just I wouldn't you trying to keep Anon I assure you it's not me so you live on AIA I'm saying it's you I know it's not you but um um I wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't being brought up to me that this is a problem and they're struggling so I'm not just doing I didn't vote for this new ordinance I didn't agree to it so um and I stated that we'd have these problems that we are having with these businesses and they are coming and saying they are having these problems so that's why I'm bringing it up otherwise I wouldn't I wouldn't bother you what what the emails we get are overwhelmingly not in in favor of it so what are you hearing in terms of ways to relieve this or to improve this I've I've heard people that don't email me people who no I understand what are the suggestions I've heard they didn't want I've heard a lot of people say they were angry about this that they didn't they're mad that this infringes on their live music and their entertainment and they were angry about this a lot of people around town they don't necessarily email but the a large portion of the climate feels that way because they enjoy going downtown and enjoying uh especially on the weekends these uh these venues and and fridges on there um and these are all residents of Coco Beach including the business owners for our residents when you guys are done I'm actually going to speak in your favor and in your favor I think I'm going to try to bridge the gap here but um is anybody else want to say I yeah I want to do public comment but I want I want to I want the public to understand how we feel so that they can understand without getting too outraged first and hearing a bunch of meanness mayor after you're done I have hear I want to hear you I want and then I want to kind of one moreing thought um well and and it's it's not drastically different I think from where you're going potentially um I agree there was strong support from the community to say please do not lessen it do not do not take away the noise ordinance um but I think what we've heard is that it's difficult to enforce it's difficult to measure and for our businesses it's difficult to self- police for any business that wants to comply or any band that wants to comply how do you know right and I think that's where with what we set we took a good step in the right direction and we've got positive feedback from the community on that however there were some pitfalls right some pitfalls from an enforceability standpoint and I think we've got to take another step and so the things that need Improvement is when I don't think we should have a situation where one person can shut down a business right and we may not even be seeing that but I think we can all agree it shouldn't be that so we've got to be careful to at least be thoughtful in that direction and then in terms of the ability for a business with good willll to self- enforce right how do I know and so one of the things was talking about with the city um was the idea building on the 100500 Ft but measuring at the source so starting to establish from The Source what is Audible at 500 ft what is Audible at the 100 ft but it's got to be starting to set standards at the source cuz weather temperature cloud cover all these things affect the ability to transmit sound right and so one you know one deciel level that's being played a given day like Carolyn was saying it could be audible at one day and not audible another day and unless you're doing perimeter searches you're not going to know so I think what we need to do is adjust our measurement and controls to measure at the source based on what becomes a standard of 5 ft audible right so that would be my recommendation you have anything you want to add okay all right so carollyn brought up some good points and uh I think some of this data is a little bit skewed because we've had some differences uh of uh a changing of the guards uh during some some part of this so we we discussed um in the beginning if this wasn't working we would consider coming back and and altering it to make it to make it work right so that's kind of where we're at right now not because we want to I I think I don't think really any of us really want to eliminate it Al together I think I think even Caroline isn't really in favor of totally getting rid of it I would say but not I I'm not saying we shouldn't you want be yeah you want to be reasonable right so that's exactly what prompted me to put this analysis together when I saw the word eliminate that's a hard no for sure so um there there is an issue when we look at this data where we do have people and I have talked to business owners they're at each location there's a majority calls from a specific person creating uh a bigger issue and and sometimes it even seems almost like calling out of spite so we need to take that into consideration how do we know that well if you had multiple calls from multiple people on on the same night um then you would say that's a legitimate complaint but if it's the same person calling over and over and nobody else is that's something to consider so that that's that's one thing um that's in the data set though you know I I think that our main problem that we've had is defining clearly audible uh because like I said changing of the guards uh the previous um police chief um didn't really have a definition he just said if you can hear it whatsoever um that's clearly audible which I think we can all agree that that is absolutely not clearly audible um speaking with the new police chief um I think you know clearly audible should be something that you can clearly hear what they're saying I think clearly audible means not that I can I can faintly hear something in a distance I think it needs to be like you said measurable something that you can you can actually identify that is clearly audible so if it was a song and you hear the beat and you say and I could pick that beat out from anywhere you know Bad Boys Bad Boys you know that was one of the ones actually uh Inner Circle um you can't necessarily call that clearly audible because you it's easy to pick the beat out it would have to be something where you would know um like for example the guy's on the mic and he's saying something and you know what he's saying without already anticipating what he's going to say so I think that's that is a probably a definition of clearly audible is something that we would consider so if you're saying that clearly Audible has to be where you can you can actually hear and understand the words M to make it clearly audable so there's plenty of music that has no words that you could beat out as loud as you wanted to and you wouldn't consider that clearly audible as long as you're mumbling no I mean obviously it this is like a baseline this is something include it has to include both it can be just if I can cuz you get people up there that you can't understand anyway I think we've got to you understand where I'm going with this so you're kind ofy actually has looked there's legal there's okay I studied this ordinance and I think one of the issues that makes it problematic is um section um uh B3 it says the officers need not determine the particular words or phrases being produced or the name of any song or artist producing the noise for example the detection of a rhythmic base reverberating type noise is sufficient to constitute a plainly audible noise and I think that that's probably overreaching I think you're correct I think that I think if that were to subjective the same sound the same transmission wind blowing that way I can't hear it over there wind switches and and so we've got to get to a more measurable because for our businesses if they can't self police cuz I can't tell one day to the next that the same audio settings are illegal and then legal that's that's not a predictable that's not an appropriate environment for them to have to operate in so we've got to get Beyond I personally believe the very subjective kind of subjective perspective and you said Becky that you didn't feel like a decel meter was was a if I think I'd like to have the police chief come up and talk about that okay um you know they have to be calibrated MH and you have to take the background noise which if you have continuous music it's hard to get the background noise without the music yeah um and three bands in general three three bands in a general vicinity is going to be problematic they're very expensive devices and I don't know how many we would get and how many people would be trained on them but I think probably the chief could address we started on EXA to that context and we kind of diverged from that to the plainly audible legal standard so I will say that I have gone around with business owners with deible meters and it was clear to tell whose music was what by the lyrics and when the decible would go up so I it actually is um something that that does work from what I've seen in person but I I would like to hear from the chief because he's the one that's going to be enforcing this thank you mayor excuse me so let me say first and foremost that um I'm not an expert on decible meters and um Becky and I have worked together for a while and I've always kind of taken the way that the ordinance is now as a much simpler way to go rather than a decel meter only because they do have to be calibrated so often and they have to be certified and we have to take those to court and or to the magistrate and then present them as evidence and it's there are complications that I can educate myself on more if actually needed but I don't think it's needed at this point and and here's kind of where I'm at is there is a middle ground here that can be found and it just takes us to be reasonable right and and it starts with the police department so I think the best way for this to proceed in our view as a department is to just use a little common sense right so the distance and the clearly audible are the two issues that you all know that I've had with if there's going to be any change made any change at all made it would be in my view to back up the distance and change the clearly audible definition to Becky's point to something more clearly defined because we all can hear bass and speakers from a quarter mile away motorcycles you know I mean I mean there's a lot of noise that we can hear from a long way away so I think the vibration in and of itself commissioner Williams while I I completely agree with you that instrumental music is a problem I never even considered that until you said it but in it of itself should not constitute clearly audible in my view okay and now I'm not an attorney but I do understand your point and it's a very good one I think that it should be the job of the police department to ensure that both sides of this argument are as happy as they can be for as long as they can be what do I mean by that what I mean is we need to be reasonable on our side as a department and try and gain compliance to a reasonable degree from the business while at the same time holding the complaintants accountable for fraudulent or incredulous complaining right so commissioner RS to your point um on the anonymous right that's really not legal now and Becky can speak to that but you can't be anonymous on these type of complaints anymore so frequently what we have are the same callers calling again and again and again and again again but they don't want to have their name mentioned and they don't want to be in reports well if they don't want to be in reports and they don't want to have their name mentioned we have no complaint for law unless I'm wrong on that but I believe that's no there there's a relatively new state statute that does not allow code enforcement anonimous complaints to be acted upon MH so so to kind of take this pressure off the commission a little bit we have only had one citation and just for public record that citation was dropped by the magistrate when the complaintant didn't show to the hearing so the business ultimately was not affected okay monetarily anyway for that citation so there's a lot of steps that have to happen along the way for a business to actually be cited and be found guilty if you will okay it is not the job of the police department to make businesses go out of business and it's not the job of the police department to have our citizens miserable from noise right what we have to do is find a middle ground as a department what does that mean specifically that means us going to the business and saying look if we if we respond to a residence and we think it sounds loud we have body cams we think it sounds too loud it sounds crazy loud we can hear it it's our definition of clearly Audi subjective to that officer we then have to have another officer at the business if we can't see at line of sight right and that officer per the ordinance has to also tell us what are they playing well they're playing Vanilla Ice don't laugh at me Vanilla Ice and then Vanilla Ice and okay so it is vanilla ice so it is this ex business right so then we have we've actually got the business identified hey can you turn it down yes we'll turn it down then we leave problem over if they don't turn it down or they choose not to turn it down hey we're saying it's loud the cops are saying it's loud we we are telling you this is loud you haven't turned it down please turn it down we're asking you again to please turn it down okay they can choose to comply or not comply at that time we need to make it very difficult rather than very easy to site the businesses in my view But ultimately there is a point in time where the businesses should be cited okay and if they're cited we need the backing of this commission that hey you have to have the faith that the police department did it in good faith we have our body cams activated and the magistrate will decide at the end of the day what the results of that case are going to be right ultimately it's going to be an independent body making that that actual judgment it's not going to be me it's not going to be you it's going to be an independent magistrate who hears both sides of the story and a reasonable expectation or outcome will will prevail that's what the system is that's why we pay the magistrate to do this job so I don't believe that any any egregious unfair activities are going to happen if the magistrate hears it and says it's un unreasonable then they'll get fine if the magistrate doesn't agree then they won't get fined but that's the beauty of the system that we have here so I don't really believe we're far off here it's just in the enforcement in my view does that help yeah thank you that make sense you guys have any questions for me just Miriam Webster would say Audible is a voice and a lightning bolt Thunder are both audible audible isn't just voice yeah I don't disagree I don't you know motorcycles are audible you know what I mean so uh but just have a little faith in the police department I'm sorry snoring is audible it is audible yes sir my wife so I I don't think there needs to be the pressure on the commission to make this call we haven't had an influx of citations you know what I mean and if and if businesses are getting affected we can be reasonable on both sides of the equation okay but but that's just my thought we're here to help you so I think go ahead sorry good so and this might be a absolutely terrible you know metaphor Association but I I think about it in terms of driving to work right and if there were no posted speed limit and I get pulled over every day because it seems too fast right and I don't have a way to utilize some tool a speedometer on my Dash right that says I know what the speed limit is I know how to measure and enforce myself so I I am confident I'm abiding with uh with the law right and and when I'm not I know exactly what I broke I know what I did and I'm accountable for that um but even if I got pulled over every day and it I didn't get a ticket where when I did I went to the magistrate and they were like ah but it's that it's the the getting pulled over each day and the stress of that and then when I do have to go to the magistrate it's even if it gets dismissed I've got to take my day off work get it I think that's the part I'm struggling with it there it is subjective when you don't have the the decel meters the objectivity is lessened to a degree in one way but it's increased the subjectivity is increased in another way in that there are outside factors influencing the decel meter itself okay so there are that that is a balance um commissioner Willis actually brings up a good point we don't have to necessarily go back to the old ordinance but what if like our old practice our past practice was that we had more than one complaint we couldn't even take action if we didn't have one like if is it really bad enough one option is that we could do two that's another option right so there are steps that we can take without having to turn this into like like where it's all all on you guys I mean we can bend too and we can be reasonable as police and enforcement and but when somebody deserves a ticket it's going to be that they really deserve it and the magistrate will eventually you know decide or not but we should make it hard for these businesses to get written but at the same time they should respect us enough when we say turn it down it's clearly yeah plainly audible to stop what does the magistrate decide against the ordinance or some other Florida Statutes or they yeah they judge the ordinance they judge whether the evidence presented to him or her at that time matches in their view that the uh I guess it would be the subject business violated the ordinance and if a magistrate who we pay who is an independent orbitor says yeah I think so sometimes they'll say no but we will make it hard to do like we don't want we don't want to make it easy to write those things we want to give the businesses every opportunity to comply and Thrive and make money my concern is if in the future we had another Chief or somebody else that doesn't see it um as you know being understanding with the businesses and the residents how we could have this problem again which is why I think defining it a little better now I was that night actually that she's referring to the the salty sisters night with with or that you referred to as the with the with the fine mhm I was actually there that night it wasn't it wasn't that loud you're on the police report is kesy dispositioned or something was I yeah well the notes are in there so because I was upset cuz I was like they shut this business down at 7:00 in the afternoon and you know that my my dad is absolutely um you know crazy about sound and he's like they've been really good lately so uh this on salty sisters and and one uh Island time with talking with the businesses and and looking at the reports absolutely we have we have people that are trying to weaponize the ordinance to take down a a business so if that's true then the two if that's true and it and I know who you're referring to and and then well one of those one of those residences is not found to be now in the distance requirement okay so that's out now on one of them secondly you could add a second complaint to make it not seem so uh you know malicious um and as far as you know it sounded all good in my head when I said that stuff to you guys a few minutes ago but at the same time if I'm honest with you the other side of that equation is I don't want to put the officers in a bad spot mhm right so we have to my trick is we have to have something clear enough on our side instructions to the officers to use common sense to make it very difficult and give the businesses every opportunity to comply while at the same time trusting them to use their best judgment in that and letting the evidence speak for itself at on the back end of the day and and that's my that's where I am thank you um so I'm going to do public comment don't don't worry um mayor I have one one final question question if I may yes uh Chief um if we were to move in a direction where we kept the officer the officer the procedure that you described it's still the final Arbiter of whether a citation is issued or not but added that there needs to be two or more complaints for it to be something we respond to and then established not as a in mode of enforcement but just as a general expectation a reasonable de uh deal level not one that would then get subjected as the basis for the citation but something that would allow that yeah that's about where we're going to say guys you got to turn it down so that it was something that the businesses could meaningfully measure and say oh okay yeah we're we're getting close to that something that would give them an approximate Zone where they know hey if the police come that's about where they're going to tell us even though it is not something like use it in conjunction where it basically it sets you off to say all right we need to start getting the guy out there to hear but you're still you're still and and whatever the commission chooses we will do but you're still bringing in decibel levels which means you're still bringing in the same problem that we have at the beginning which is the I mean they have to get out there we have to have a complaint Dent right and then we have to still have those instruments measured and calibrated and certified and then we have other noise considerations that I can look into further but I mean that's the other side of of the I'm not saying it's unreasonable right but I mean ultimately to use your speeding example I get that if one Officer says that you're speeding you know and that could be subjective but what if two say you were yeah yeah or what if three say you were right so if you have more complaintant that takes away the subjectivity to a degree yeah in my opinion and it could even be decel meter owned by the by The Establishment themselves just so they know when they're getting close whatever you whatever you and and some of them already have those they use them to kind of say okay we're um I I'll say one more thing about decibel meters and clearly audible at 8:30 in the morning if I'm home on a weekday at 58 westf Lane I could uh I could take dictation on the uh High School announcements that come over the loudspeaker okay yeah but the decibel level isn't high right but it's clearly audible okay when they're having a football game and the band's playing and it plays on the west side of the stadium where the where the student section is it's clearly Audible and it's rather loud but am I going to shut down a high school band at a football game because I don't like to hear the noise you know there's got to be some subjectivity I mean I can clearly hear what's going on at the high school from Publix my house behind Publix which is pretty far away well I think but it's not it's audible but the debel level you debel meter out there you get about 20 all right so the the complement to that is the frequency of these occurrences right I we talked about Friday Fest it gets almost Universal support and they blast the music I the community loves that but it's once a month yeah it's not every Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday and that's what prompted all this yeah and that point is we were going down the route of the special events where it was a cap we blew through that it was we were rewriting it's just like a whole gray area but that was supposed to be the complement to limit the free frequency of these big events like that I'm kind of on the same idea with with uh with Chief is uh I do think we need to maybe look at um at least two complaints for it to be something legit so that one person can't shut down a business um I would be open to um expanding the the distance a little bit to maybe get rid of some of these nuisance um these nuisance complaints um and then uh also in my opinion uh we need to a little bit we need to we need to Define clearly audible a little better but that's that's obviously subject to what I I hear from you guys as well so if you guys want we can start with public comment so anybody want to kind of kick that off name address and uh let's keep it with 3 minutes because we got a lot of people Rick Anderson 1800 Minute Men Causeway I think it's important to remember that uh for many years we had an large number of businesses and it was there was never a problem and then one business came in and caused a big problem it was a it was a really emotional issue and I and I understand it and the complaints against that one business will legitimate that one business is gone now so I think that it's important to remember that it was it was passed at a at a highly emotional uh point and I think that anything that's passed that way is going to be inherently flawed um I like commissioner Jackson and I'm not a a sound engineer but if there if there was a source measurement um I'd be all in favor of something like that but but it it's it's just too subjective the way it's written that the decb are just an imperfect way to measure sound as commissioner Jackson said the wind blows one way the wind blows the other way so I mean I I think that we need to get it right right um and I think I think the businesses need need some sort of stability so that they won't be facing this this uncertainty every time they put a band on the stage I don't think it's I don't think it's fair to them so I'd like I I I I can't quite go along with eliminating it but I'm also not a fan of passing laws that are that are simply unenforceable because they're too vague and there and there are too many variables thank you um yeah I appreciate that and it actually it really was a a pretty um uh it was a very emotional time for the city when we did do that vote so I do agree anybody else good evening uh Tim tumulty uh 60- year old resident of ker Beach um there's a lot of lot of issues at hand here um from my recollection of this noise ordinance that took place started a year ago um the complaints as I recall were 28 complaints from one person three total from everyone else uh there was a lot back yeah but that started it that's what started it right so it came from one person basically and that's from 142 so you know that's that's just the way it is and that's that's what happened it caused a lot of um uh contestation between uh area 142 and the commission because of all the other now more people came up and were voiced in their opinion um I believe uh commissioner hutter you're conflating the issue with the verbiage that you had up there I don't agree with the verbiage of Buck Cherry and it's not something I would listen to or condone but it is a First Amendment right of them to to say what they want just as just as we have a strip club in Coco Beach that uses the First Amendment right to be a strip club in Coco Beach and we can't get rid of them and that's that's an issue above and beyond um a word that may be added it may I'm not sure I don't have the whole verbiage of the ordinance but continuous if the word continuous was in there I'm not sure that it is um um Chief Mullen nailed it I think I think the commission had a knee-jerk reaction last year and just went went wild with this noise ordinance and and created all the all the issues between 142 and and then it wasn't just 142 now became every business in Cocoa Beach that had to comply to this ordinance that they didn't really understand um it's not really clear and you know that's um and that's where we are now so I I don't know that anything is changed here other than the fact that Chief Mullins has said and it's pretty much cleared up for me and that hey you're a little loud so we got a complaint so we come to your residence or we come to your business whatever it may be it could be either one and we say hey turn your turn your music down you know we got a complaint um if I have to come again you know I'm going to be a little bit more Stern and you may get a citation and that should handle it thank you that yeah sure um when you keep saying this stuff about only one person complaining and you need at least two uh I don't think that that's going to work cuz you get two people in one house and one person calls oh no it has to be two complaints the other person calls you know now you got two complaints you got the same problem coming from the same place same address but you have your neighbor call I have or whatever but but I don't think that's the solution I think it's up to the discretion of the police officers but in that I I could read them to you one right after the other off my phone the emails I got and there's more than one person complaining about the current uh noise ordinance and how it's enforced there was way more than one person complaining about it uh um most people are saying don't eliminate and don't change it but there's other people that are complaining about it just the way it is saying it just you know you know they can't live in their homes anymore on you know back in the neighborhoods behind salty sisters and such so um you know it's not just one person complaining whether they want to pick up the phone and go on a police record or not but there is public record of all the emails that came to this commission that Karen has and there's more than one person complaining about the current noise ordinance not being strict enough and therefore I'm not in favor of making any changes okay um and I actually do want to go on record to say that um I was working with 142 at the time and they were bending over backwards to try to to make changes and towards the end there they they did get it right in my opinion they were working well with us so I do want to give them kudos for that um I don't think we should I don't think it's fair to beat up on them uh in the beginning uh definitely it was out of hand but they I think as a business um I was very proud of them for trying to work with us and make a difference they I mean they so I just want to say even though they there it changed and all that um hands and all that uh I just feel like I owe it to them to at least uh acknowledge that any any other public comments yeah uh Adrien Dylan 125 Hernando Lane Coco Beach and the property is about 500 ft from The Sandbar and Captain JS of recent I haven't had any difficulties with their music but in the past especially when they had their bands playing on the west side of their buildings pointing towards Ocean Beach Boulevard it it was just incredible I don't know the um the science of Acoustics but they synthesized base the boom boom boom boom in my bedroom in my house it was louder than if I st stepped outside and so I couldn't sleep at night if they were doing the boom boom boom boom is there any way we could consider to only allow that in a fully enclosed building if you're going to play music outside you have to play musical instruments you know musical instruments and lyrics wouldn't be a problem but it's that synthesized base that drove me nuts so I know it's difficult to ban stuff but I I think you could certainly say okay if you want that has to be in a fully enclosed building thank you thank you comment on that so thanks for bringing that up great point so that was one of the discussions we had initially was um having a sound analysis and that was the findings from I think Island time was the one that had one done in 2019 or so and that was the takeaway is is th those large base noises transmit through a lot of structure and that was a takeways build structure to absorb that so and I don't think we needed to do a new analysis just Leverage The findings that they had from that initial one that's exactly what they said the theme of that whole analysis of downtown it only was fair point but I mean the takeaway from that analysis was it's these loud low Bas noises and I'll leave it at that and I don't think we need to spend money on an analysis to understand what's loud and what's not loud right no I don't agree because we don't really there's a lot of factors downtown you've got the garage you've got a lot of buildings at different heights you've got the ocean you've got the canals which is water there's a lot of factors that change sound levels and how sound carries throughout the day so unless you have an analysis of what really goes on how do you know what you're working with it because it could be different today as it is tomorrow why analysis on different days in different conditions and you find that out to that's why I still think I I agree with what Tim said it was a knee-jerk reaction what we what was what was put in place last summer we didn't have an analysis done we didn't know what and we we it did end up having problems with this so I I want to go back to doing an assound analysis before we um anything so we know what we're working with and that's what I'm going to go with okay I I would say from an engineering and scientific and controlled experiment analysis aspect that to capture all the different scenarios and changes you know wind direction uh how high the cloud cover is uh the humidity in the air um just there's too many any variables you know the temperature you know you're going to do analysis at every temperature from from you know 37° to 103 I mean you'll be doing analysis forever um so you're never going to have a a complete analysis so I I don't think that the it's worth spending any money on doing an analysis not to make sure we don't have the money so uh any other public comment hello Elise kuk 24 North forvard Avenue defy Martin 24 North provard Avenue salty sisters hey hello um I definitely want to say that we do not want to break the law ever um I agree with everything that the police chief was saying that I think that it should be um to where we all kind of have a understanding together I liked how he was saying that um if one of us were at our res our building and then they could be somewhat to see if it was reasonable if you know what I mean if they agreed to um we actually put um sound barrier things actually so that we would be complaining I'm not sure if since the last time that we did have a complaint way back where we were saying I'm not sure I don't think that there has been another one since seems to have made a difference I'm sorry it seems to have made a difference excellent and so like that's kind of where we we I like how you were also saying that it's good to know um exactly what uh you know so we can self- police it as well like we used to be like um we would sit inside the office and if we could hear the band from there then we were like okay we need to go outside and tell them to turn it down and so it was good because then we would know um this is not okay do I mean so we would always try to comply with what we thought was okay um and uh and then what ended up happening was certain bands were getting more calls for example I'll be honest Carolyn's band gets called the first note she plays her band gets called and I've had a band where they played pretty loud and I fired them I said you guys play way too loud can you turn down he straight up told me no and I said get off the stage you can't play here because I'm trying to comply with the residents we love the residents of Coco Beach they support us so much and so certain bands do play louder and we get rid of them Caroline's band will play so low it's laughable and she will get a call that's why we know certain people are biased against her um not where I want to fire Caroline but like it's hard to even want to have her band play because we know we're going to get a call if it's Caroline um that being said the ticket did get dismissed when we got shut down at 7:30 and the person person that was calling all the time against us she started calling at the restaurant instead and then I was able to okay turn down turn down turn down instead of even getting the police involved we will turn down no matter what we just want the opportunity to be able to turn down without them just St and flick off the music Here's your citation and that's all we're asking for which I think we've all discussed tonight and it seems like that's what's going to happen so but I agree with what um you know you guys also mentioned too when you hear Friday Fest it's like okay well we're obviously nowhere near as loud as Friday Fest so it's like so what is the clear the audible you know what I mean what is our clearly audible like yeah expectation it's actually plainly audible but so thank you thank you thank [Applause] you actually um Jeremy you're the one that actually is closest to to hear that so I I guess I could be speaking out of turn my dad lives just the street before you so we're an hour and a half into the we I could go all night on this but it's like any other public comment no other public comment so guys do you want to try to modify this at all to to try to make it a little bit more easier for the the police as far as maybe adding an element of maybe uh a second complaint so that one person can't just um you know shut a place down I tell you what instead of us trying to make a final decision why don't we just for the time being defer to the City attorney and the city manager and the police chief to put their heads together and bring back a recommendation to the commission versus US kind of battling out do this do that you know that's we me you know we could go on for another hour and a half and we really possibly could take care of the problem without actually changing the ordinance because the police department they have discretion on everything M um they have discretion on whether they can give you a speeding ticket at 7 m an hour or 15 M an hour over the limit and that's internal to the police department what they do and whether they're going to respond to one complaint if it's somebody who keeps calling or if they're going to you know wait and see if somebody from a different address calls um they can do that within their own Police Department my main concern though is if we don't have someone like West where cooler heads prevail um you know what if we have somebody else in there that like last time the reason why we started getting actually all these complaints cuz they they did when had a different Chief no no I get that and I believe the internal um instructions that they had then was if they got a second call in one night even if it was the same person right didn't really matter how loud it was they went and shut them down um and that I think that that was an improper thing because that was not in accordance with the ordinance so and and frankly if um if our current chief is no longer there yeah and we start having problems again then we can address it at that point I mean we've got a levelheaded Chief now and and the thing is we're not all going to be sitting up here the five of us obviously Wayne's not going to be here forever Becky's not going to be here forever Wes isn't going to be here forever so if we have a different police chief that has a different take on how to apply the city ordinances that's basically between him and the City maner and the City attorney and the next commission yes to work out and and we shouldn't be worried about it at this time you make a great Point actually um and I'm okay with that as long as we keep Wes around to uh make sure all this uh is so we're going with no change at this point unless you guys the city manager and and the City attorney and West have an epiphany and come up with a way to make this better well I I'd like to specifically ask that you guys look into one smart ways to address how and and Becky I think you started hitting on it uh address the single complaint right how do we how do we ensure that regardless of who's sitting here and individual seats that one person can't take a business hostage right and I think we all agree on that um and then how to generally communicate to a business roughly what the speed limit is right now again it's going to be subject to the police but what what type of levels are we talking about and especially at base levels right so if it's the the SPL meter waited for C I'm just doing a little research real quick U but it sounds like there are ways to give them kind of a general area so if we could learn a little bit more about that especially focus on bass tones it sounds like that might be a a way to improve and I think we have a general consensus with at least three of us that we wouldn't really be opposed if there was two um two complaints that that would make it make sense that sounds like one option but yeah I think asking them to she's saying that the police department has a discre they have the same okay so you say two you put numbers in there you say two not three it's complaint it's complaint or complaints we're going to leave it as but if you make it two then all of a sudden you get two and you go well that's not enough let's make it three it just not go I that there's something that does not allow chronic complainers yeah shut down business for the even well that's what we'll let that leave that to the police department's discretion in enforcing our ordinances I trust Wes to um I Trust West to to to do what's right in this situation so I I will concede but I do I I do agree with you Caroline so at this point just for the sake of not drawing this out for another hour um we'll we'll close this item are we going to get like a report back from um would like could we get like a some kind of report or summary or something like on an agenda item or something what I ask them to do is put their heads together okay and that's why I said that with your putting your heads together there is a consensus that we'd be okay with that as well yeah okay thank you all right um let's see new business yes okay this is um uh item K1 new business approved the scope of services for engineering and design and fee estimates totaling $185,400 from kimley horn to design Rehabilitation improvements for lift station number three under task order number two lift station number six under task order number three and lift station 15 under task order four the engineering and design for this project is a budgeted item this fiscal year representative Brad howo Water Reclamation director recommendation approve look approve K1 as written second got a motion in a second um any public comment all in favor I have a comment real quick yeah so Bri a question easy one so first of all great job I think he does in terms of detail of estimates phenomenal so uh kudos to that in terms of all the supporting data um is this item actually we can cover them all one two and three are they all have any kind of recurring cost and do we have that built into our forecast going forward like a maintenance or service or I I think the recurring cost might just be your standard onm and you would you would build that in your budget correct okay cuz where I'm going with is I want to I come from that background where nothing gets approved just as a one time expense you have to have a plan for all the followup so the city can really get a better idea CU for me personally it I don't want to see things that are unbudgeted oh we've got this emergency expense type thing so I'm trying to wean us off of that if we can get better forecasting our other operational accounts will cover any parts that we need any of that this is just the major stuff but okay awesome thank you though good detail on all three of them thank you all right any other Council comment all right all in favor ask for public comment I already did sorry uh all right uh motion passes 50 uh number two okay um new business item two approve the purchase of a closed circuit television Transit van and Associated equipment for sewer inspections from Q's Inc through a piggyback agreement with Houston gaveston area Council the amount of $ 33,45 this is a budgeted Capital item this fiscal year representative Bad Brad czo Water Reclamation director recommendation approved move to approve is red second got a motion a second any public comment all right I want to be transparent here um I must have missed this one could could somebody explain to me um what this is exactly this is to look at the sewer [Music] are we we're purchasing a a camera system basically van with with another in base yes we we currently have an existing van uh the van itself is from 2010 we're not getting rid of that but the equipment that we have in that van is from the late '90s early 2000s and it's it's hard to get parts anymore um so we just need to upgrade all of that and we're going to refurbish that van into an electrical van okay but this is sewer sewer camera equipment uh if we have a blockage out in the field we can stick our camera down there pinpoint where the blockage is if we have a crack in the pipe we'll be able to pinpoint it Dig Down fix the pipe and uh we're also getting a um a lateral camera we'll be able to stick down residential laterals to see the condition of their pipes and recommend improvements okay and it's and I see it's a budgeted item um I just want to make a a a comment um and and you're you're welcome to sit down um some of the stuff that maybe we could think of too in the future is I was talking with um with Wes the mayor of um of cape canaval and there might be stuff like this in the future where we can collaborate with them and buy stuff together share the cost and then we share the use of it and sometimes it's better when you do something like that because uh constant uh normal use of a of an item is better than something just sitting and not being used yeah and then you're not planning you know you're not Staffing your resources with item you use once every six months exactly so if we can up that utilization I'm tot it's like a boat club right so I would just want to say that maybe in the future um we could we could try to uh collaborate with some of the other um cities and try to share that cost with them um would be a good idea to think of in the future um so we had a motion in a second uh I I don't remember did I ask for public comment yes all right we're good um all in favor I I opposed motion passes 5 we did that with the beach rake and it didn't work out so good the beachal thought we'd maintain it and they'd use it and we thought they'd maintain it and we'd use it and the thing just rust it away we' have we'd have to have um clear uh instructions about how we're going to maintain stuff but I 100% agree with that because we've got you know in Miss Scott says this all the time in 10 miles we've got six little cities that all have their own overhead and all Administration and all sewer trucks and all fire trucks it's like guys there's some duplicacy there yeah and I was talking he's totally into did that as well so and that was one of the questions when we were signing theas with the fire department it's like can this allow us to optimize our assets of hey I don't need this piece of equipment because I have access to it in the one in the event I use it one time I it's a great idea all right uh I we've got like-minded good okay item K3 approve the expenditure of $191,700 for Gregory Construction Inc to perform milling and Paving work at three locations in the city east St Lucy Lane Maran Lane in the intersection of Ocean Ocean Beach Boulevard and East COC Coco Beach Causeway in Road Road repair on North ban Ana River Boulevard this is a budgeted item movees to approve is right got a motion in a second um just as a just a point of concern U mine says 188,000 right and that was incorrect okay incorrect agendas were printed for the meeting it's posted correctly on the website okay for this meeting the incorrect agendas were post are printed all right any public comment on that all right and it's a budgeted item uh any any commission comment all in favor I I all right we J now you have to give open