##VIDEO ID:kQy3KcSq5Y8## to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for stands one nation under godible liy and justice for all burs comply with the notice provisions of Sunshine Law by adopting prior to January 10th of this year a resolution prescribing the date times and locations of all regular regular meetings of the commission this meeting is one of the meetings listed such resolution and comments of the resolution were prior to January 10th filed in the borrow cler uh you're going to please be patient with us a little bit going to be a little slower than usual this evening Holly our clerk is unable to be with us tonight um so we lead off with the uh reports of the municipal court and Zoning official make a motion to accept those reports first uh order on our agenda is the second reading of public hearing on ordinance 1788 an amendment to chapter 141 of the code of barl Collinwood in reference 900 Hen Avenue this ordinance is revisions to the the Redevelopment plan that governs 900 Haden in order to allow uh some additional specific uses uh it was prepared as a result of our uh burrow planners review of the last year of um planning board applications um for use variances and those use variances that had been the most frequently applied for that were granted we've simply made amendment to allow those uses and it's got to do with like education facility P it's private education facility but more office oriented but didn't fit directly in the prior definition so we've expanded it and allowed that to happen here purpose being so that everyone um that's coming into the building doing a similar use doesn't have to keep spending the money and coming in to get a use variance when we're granting them all anyway so we just revised it um that's what this revision is so any member this is the public hearing on this ordinance any member of the public like to um speak on this ordinance now is your time anyone okay U I guess I qu huh commissioner Robinson yes commissioner lowski yes and I'm a yes okay next up is the second reading public hearing of ordinance 1789 establishing cannabis licensing so the process of cannabis in the burrow is we have um we have allowed it under zoning um we have uh set it up as a Redevelopment process there are um Redevelopment AG agreements a place for one of the Cannabis operators two two for two cannabis operators the constructions underway at what was on Route 130 what was the old Eggbert Express it's a building kind of right next to Fortuna dance studio um construction is well underway there um the other property that has not moved as far which is the colins with Diner um what this ordinance does is establish a pretty elaborate um licing process that uh puts um kind of the way I my analogy is the old days when we licens taxis uh taxi cab companies that have to submit um information to be vetted and every year have to be reviewed so that we get a review that the operation is not causing any kind of issues with the community with the neighborhood that they're operating properly so this is what this uh cannabis licensing ordinance does if anyone has anything to like to bring before the commission this is your opportunity to do so anyone I'll just I'll just add in case someone's thinking of another question and this is for municipal licenses so they still have to go through the state process of the six different categories of of Licensing and all that stuff this is this is sort of just for the municipal level okay any public comment anyone else okay uh commiss Robinson yes commiss lowki yes and I am a yes as well okay next is public comment on any of the resolutions on the you got I'm sorry missing I'm going off the agenda that has my name on okay so this is a first reading of ordinance 1790 amending chapter 24 of the municipal code of the burrow regarding the energy aggregation program so we'll have the final version of this in the next couple days it'll be advertise appropriately this is making a few changes to the energy aggregation ordinance that we had which is a process that allows the burrow to um kind of uh go out and and purchase power wholesale for residential use and then allows residential customers to opt out of that if they so choose we're making a it's been a few years since the state's law came in place and so we're making a few changes um based on the recommendations of our uh consultant um and based on their experience and other towns that have done it uh it's basically kind of changing the the requirements for um uh green power kind of reducing that because the market we keep it up the level where it's at the market Marketplace isn't going to uh make any proposals to us so we're just dropping it down a little bit in accord with some other uh some other towns this is the first reading public hearing will be at our meeting on November 4 it'll be advertised uh within the next couple weeks okay it's just a voice quote commissioner Robinson yes commissioner lowski yes and I'm a yes okay public comment on the resolution so this is a public comment period only on the rest of our agenda if you have any comments questions on any of the items listed on the agenda this is your opportunity to bring it before us um if not if you have anything generically you want to talk about or any other issue we'll do all that at the end of the meeting anybody yes name and address for the record please Wayne Rossy 114 um so as you well remember the um energy aggregation ordinance the goal was to set some renewable targets and to try and move Collins with toward what we would hope would be 100% renewable energy and you know we haven't seen motion on that you know obviously um so can you tell us are there still renewable energy targets are we still going to see a substantial portion of uh green energy through this this was why lot of us were involved in in pushing for this yeah the the sad thing is right is when we it's the it's those targets that stopped us from being able to enact it because the costs were above the Tariff rate were above what people would pay ordinarily for the stuff the goal and listen made this argument at that time is that you know these markets are fluid they change we don't know what they'll do year to year we have to have the fle now you know people went to you know to petition the government and you know said look we want fixed numbers in there those fixed numbers would stop this from so we got Grand ideas and we got zero out of it I think the idea we want to do now is say we want to get something out of this we want to make sure we get it and if that's 20% you know above the standard amount now which is what 24% in New Jersey or um you know or it's 30% or it's 5% or it's 50% we have to we have to work with the market so the Consultants who who do this in a lot of other towns including new brunic including a lot of a lot of other places are the ones that said to us look we got to have that flexibility so that's what we're going to try Okay so but there there will still be renewable energy like as a focus of this it's the only you only do it I mean that's the reason why we're doing it okay anyone else yes yeah K Delany also Palmer Avenue uh 126 is Palmer Avenue so yeah rob you just thre out a couple different numbers 30% 50% um I would you know argue that it wasn't necessarily the renewable goals that were alone the issue but also the war in Ukraine um but yeah I would like more specifics in terms of the numbers I know that public hearing is next month but by then it's pretty far out of the gate so if you could give us some more numbers and uh yeah just want to get props to my way yeah I again I think I think we can set a number of 100% now and everyone will walk away happy and we'll get zero out of it because that's what we got for four years right so the idea here is let's let the Consultants look at the market at that moment and not lock into something in our ordinance that that is cost us the opportunity to improve our mix and and bring this out to the public so I get it I just think what you have to do is allow the process to go through and then see what's what's achievable the idea of saying you know this is this is desirable but if it's not achievable it doesn't matter so we want to try to find that balance so thank you by way the the specific difference in the ordinance is this the ordinance as it exists is um said that it set minimum renewable requirements and that they would increase by 10% each year uh we've talked about at other meetings over the last four or five years that we've been been advised that by the Consultants that like it's not achievable we can't go out and get anyone to offer that okay so the language from a couple other Town says the purchase must be 10% higher than the New Jersey renewable portfolio standard which is part of the Tariff so that what that tariff sets that your like from pcng you have options today to go go buy some renewable most people don't do it because it costs a lot more money okay but our option would be it must be at least 10% higher than what that what you could just get regular on your portfolio and there must be at least a 5% savings to the resident unless they choose to opt into 100% renewal and then they there won't be there won't be any savings they go so it's making a little bit of modification it's based on the consultant's um advice that this is something that they believe the marketplace will bid on okay all right anything else okay do roll first resolution is appointing William Lions as the deputy police chief for the barl of col Police Department yes yes okay so we're uh we're going to take a moment and do a swearing in no no no no no we're going to get I state your name I William Mar to solemly swear to Solly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States I'll support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey the constitution of the state of New Jersey that all bear true faith and allegiance to the same be true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments to the government established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will Faithfully now faithfully and partially partially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties as deputy chief for the B of Collinwood Police Department all the duties of the deputy chief police department according to the best of my ability best congratulations [Applause] Billy's homegrown [Applause] colleag thank you for officers and friends that have come out um this evening we appreciate you being here you aree to leave now if you would like I just would ask that you be quiet so we can keep running through the agenda the meeting okay and Mrs Lions you need to lose that video all right next up is a resolution approving a settlement agreement with USA Architects um this is a um a resolution this is a settlement out of the construction of the public safety building um there was some litigation with our Architects about some errors we think there were some mistakes we think there were this is a a resolution of the lawsuit a settlement of the lawsuit we recovered roughly 50 60% of our of our number um that was our claim and this puts the that um to rest yes yes yeah um next is a resolution authorizing entering into Cooperative pricing agreement with Cherry Hill Township Cassandra remind me on what um number of a Cooperative crises just it's a shared service we're going and get pricing with Cherry Hill on an idem um yes yes yes authorizing a purchase under State contract for turnout here for the fire department yes authorizing DET termination of participation in the state health benefits program effective the end of this year we are authorizing this this evening um and authorizing going into what's referred to as the New Jersey Health Insurance Fund with which is a self Insurance Pool of towns in new J in in Cy County County throughout the state but this is for Canon County um we're making final um decisions working out with our employees uh and looking at making that change it's a uh it's really being done as a cost savings measure significant change in uh in the costs we're finishing up some review to make sure that the the coverages are equivalent um for all of our employees most especially those of our employees who right now are are ill we want to make sure that everything for everybody is covered um so that's the author that's the what we're authorizing with these next two resolutions yes yes authorizing to participate in the southern New Jersey Health Insurance Fund yes yes uh appointing Betty Joe pelli as fund commissioner to the southern New Jersey Health Insurance Fund related to that self-insurance pool yes yes authorizing to advertise the bid for dbrc dbpc top Grant project for Atlantic Colon's Avenue this is applying to get free money um yes appointing a redeveloper and authorizing a Redevelopment agreement for the property located at 30 Fern this is the church right chch yeah so this is for the Presbyterian Church at Fern and maple which we have talked about a bunch in the past and um has been gotten site plan approval we finished up the last details of our Redevelopment agreement with them um there going to be 30 residential units in that property um four of which will be affordable units deed restricted affordable units um we're really anxious to get this started and I think they're kind of clear to get rolling uh yes yes authorizing a sale of property located at 627 Haden Avenue uh this is uh Ocean First Bank so sorry about that folks this is um the the Sun Bank the Ocean First Bank is um property that the Burl acquired near the end of the end of last year um and we've been working through a different uh a few different plans on it one of the plans uh well some of the plans have had tow houses on the back parking lot and my goodness the first developers wanted to put like six stories on where the bank is across the street from the lumber yard we really not think that was in any way um appropriate for the neighborhood um what's okay on this side of pen with the train behind it not quite the same as across the street where we have you know you're really in a residential neighborhood so so we had a proposal from uh a developer in in penil in Philadelphia uh really good track record we really liked his experience in it their proposal what we've done is limited to Simply kind of the front parcel um that is being they submitted a proposal to build a twostory put a second story on top of the existing Bank building and I don't know if you can see it you're welcome to take a look after we're when we're all done but there's um there's kind of a it's built kind of The Proposal is to build it kind of like the heart side building is where the main part of the building is back a little bit so those posts kind of the columns on the outside here would actually be the support struct for the second floor so in essence they're going to take a second floor and kind of put it over top of the first floor there'll be uh nine residential units uh up top nine two-bedroom units up top um and then the back portion the back portion of the uh parking of the the ocean Forest building will we're going to uh keep it parking it's going to become public parking uh we have kiosk back there you know we'll do the public parking route because um while it's certainly attractive to get the ratables in with the residential we really think that what's needed is what we're looking at doing it back here at the water towers increasing that public parking this gives us a chance to get some public parking down kind of this side of the N okay and plus at the Warner lot we six seven parking SP spaces to put a public park there so in some ways this will take care of that as well yes okay all right yes yes uh authorizing a shared service agreement with the county of Candon for deer carcass removal it's self-explanatory yes this is our discussion of best practices state has a rule that in order to um get your maximum State funding every year you need to have a moment when the government body talks about their best practices list tonight's theight yeah so the Department of Community Affairs requires this and they put together essentially a checklist um you have to score at least 35 out of I think it's 48 uh 49 points together it we scored 45 uh so we're well above the uh the score score needed it covers such things as cyber security uh budget foral housing environment ethics um Kudos really to the staff um really C all the department heads Betty Joe who day in and day out you know make sure that we administer uh our funds and our duties uh in a way that uh meets these standards so yeah I feel positive about uh what we've seen and they throw new things in every year and we'll be ready for them when they come so okay thank you last on the agenda is approving the payments of bills as presented by the Tre yes Cassandra anything else do I didn't miss anything no okay all right uh M robon um couple of things I'd like to thank everybody for their hard work at Book Festival um another big success it didn't rain amazing um on Saturday on the 12th this Saturday we have our fire engine housing um ceremony to welcome our new fire engine and what time Chief 11 11 [Music] 11:00 and on Sunday um The Pride committee presents our outfest it's a um familyfriendly education based from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. at Perkins um to celebrate lgbtq History Month okay thanks I'm good than we're good okay we uh we know there's some folks because they they've already told us have some talk about here tonight so um let's I will forgo any comment as well let's go right to the public portion anyone would like to bring anything before the commission this is your opportunity to do so y please just name and address for the record please Brig 122 [Music] for last spring when we learned that the col and public schools were losing State funding we began researching as much we could school funding our local tax levy school and Municipal budgets and state funding formulas seeking to fully understand the big picture of our school funding situation we're here tonight to share our research with the community and to start a conversation about how we can better fund our district without additional cost to taxpayers we've shared some of this with the Commissioners already and readily accepted their offer to meet with us to talk more uh in detail we also recognize the importance of having these conversations publicly and often so people leadership positions are fully aware of the wants and needs of their constituents which is why we're here tonight what we found is this in New Jersey during the 2023 tax year an average of just over 52% of property taxes collected went to school districts surrounded communities like Haden Township Haden field oton Haden Heights all met or exceeded that average in Collingswood our schools received just under 47% of property tax revenue during the same year that 5% difference to a little over $2 million and this is in a one-time deficit in the past 20 years Collingswood has contributed just under 47% of the tax Li to our schools continually below the state average millions of dollars that could have used we could have used to support teacher retention and Academic Program development we've also found that the New Jersey school funding formula anticipates that our local tax levy based on property values and total income should be around $24 million this year we are well below that at around 19 million in fact we have one of the largest gaps between the expected and act actual contributions from the local tax levy compared to surrounding similarly sized districts these percentages also do not include the financial impact of pilot payments made directly to the burrow based on the 2023 Municipal budget Pilots brought in about an additional $2.8 million to the burrow with only about 222 100,000 or 8% being sent to the school district again this is isol event but a consistent pattern of funds being collected without significant percentage going to the school district we're not disputing how the current process works it's clear that the district informs the Bureau of the local tax share that they're legally entitled to and the buau provides it we also recognize the substantial growth and development of Collingswood in the past 30 years much of which would not have been possible without the utilization of Pilots our goal in sharing these facts is to advocate for a permanent and sustainable increase to school funding raising tax for residents with flat or decreased State funding and a state maned tax cap we see local funding as the most attainable way to get much needed funds into the school operating budget as concern taxpayers and parents of children in our Public Schools we want a higher percentage of our local tax dollars going to the place that needs our support most the schools establishing computer and sustainable local support for the school operating budget will hopefully allow them to negotiate a generous contract to the dedicated and deserving teachers and St staff School we're proposing two solutions for your consideration to ultimately bring the total tax revenue sent to schools up to 52% or higher like the New Jersey state average one for the B to increase the total percentage of the collected tax levy sent to the school district by reallocating money in the municipal budget and secondly to form a create a formal agreement with the school district moving a majority share of current and or future pilot payments directly to the school operating budget we know this can't be accomplished overnight that there are considerations to the burough operating budget that need to be carefully explored however we strongly believe that more of our tax salaries should be going directly to the schools and emplore you to work with the district to make this happen thank you for your time and your willingness to listen we hope this conversations this week are the start of a collaborative movement between residents the burough and the district to improve our schools thank you so much thank that's it's a WL support so can we Lindsay can you put so they sent us this most of this in advance so Lindsay can you put the or no off the page so the U I just want to talk about about this because it kind of rolls back to like I think there's a basic misconception okay the the misconception is that somehow the burrow we decide what part of the tax levy goes to the school okay it is that's not that's just not how it works and in a nutshell the Burrows budget we have the same cap cap Levy we have the same cap and if there was a a requirement if if it was proposed which I don't know anywhere any Town anywhere in the state that is in the municipal budget they have a line item of what they're sending over to the school schools to support the schools okay other than a pilot payment which we'll we'll take a look at at that okay but it's not just we don't our budget is such we don't have funds we don't budget for we don't work on what money we're going to send we can send to the schools and we're right under our cap so your proposal to that we just we give them something headed or $2 million to make up that funding Gap we could do it would exceed our cap okay we can exceed our cap if we go out to referendum for the public to approve it okay that is exactly what the school district can do okay which as far back as July when we sent our letter with our good sheeper Proposal Part of why we made that proposal was to give we said in our letter to give time for a look at whether to do an operating budget referendum a look a look at other out doing more planning we we laid that all out okay so it could be done but it's not the kind like we're not sitting on a pot of 2 million bucks that we can just say oh let just Let's help some support the schools it's our budget is is tied to everything that we're responsible for that we do okay that increase we could absolutely do like all the references you made about the local tax the local Levy it's it's that's not referring to the municipal government it's referring to you it's just saying that you can be taxed Bor Okay so the burrow can do this we just would have to go out on a referendum raise the money give it to the schools what we think and the way the law set up is more appropriate is the school district who controls that budget needs to go out on a referendum to go above the cap which as at least as I understand it early on in the referendum process the position of the administration was we can't do that and then by the end of it the position was well we can do that but it would cost you a lot of money okay and what it would cost you is the same whether the school board goes out to pass the referendum we go out to pass the referendum like we think it should be done we advocated for it in our letter back in July we said you should hold off on this capital expenditure and do a review about an operator okay so so hang on one second all right so and can you go to the second page second page okay so so the and I just want to show you how this gets applied this is the 24 tax L okay School portion 19 530 638 that's the budget they put together they calculate out their state aid they do all that okay and then go back to the first page and so you can't really see it clearly but the number the 197531 138 the first highlighted number there the number below it is the pilot payment that gets made to the schools on Park okay so the pilot Revenue comes off the budget number the bottom number the 1953 638 that Levy that's the net Levy to the second page please C that's the number that we get that says this is what to tax everybody okay so the pilot payment that goes in is netted out I think there's this perception that like it gets grossed up okay it's netted out okay and that's why when we sold the Park View in ' 06 and I don't know if everybody was around for that when we sold the Park View in ' 06 the burrow made we we spent six million we made like four four million bucks okay we spent we took half of it close the 2/3 and gave it back to everybody we did checks sent checks back to everybody all the taxpayers the remaining third we gave to the schools but we didn't break them a check and the reason we didn't write them a check is because of that okay if you wrote them a check it affects their state aid it comes off their number okay their budget number so what do we do sat down with I think Oswald was there then Oswald uh I think the uh president was Jimmy hatel we sat down said look we want to give you this money was close to a million bucks we want to give you this money so but we want to do it by buying stuff and putting it in okay that was extra money it was new money one time money not something you can you don't want to set it up that it's paying salaries okay because it ain't coming next year so that onetime money we took and we outfitted the TV studio that the middle school high school has we bought at the time the hot thing was uh the the Microsoft Smart Boards like so we bought a bunch of those we bought stuff all right cash and prizes I refer to it but we bought stuff for them so they had stuff but they they it didn't it was done in a way that didn't affect their state aid didn't affect their budget number okay so I am more like this conversation happy to have it all day I think it's really important that school administration's part of that conversation um no one in all my time there's never been this conversation with the schools like happy to have it uh for all those of I've seen a little bit of social media what a how I never want to fund the schools and never help the schools and all that stuff 06 yeah we sat down and found out a way to benefit them the way that benefits them the most okay happy to do that again I have ideas I think some things we could do now but that's kind of I I think we're I get where you're coming from but what we can do schools can do the same thing and they're in a better place to control their budget and go out and say hey we need to pay the teachers more we're going to raise the taxes more I think the one thing I just want to add to that is for the state formula determines Equalization age they have a very high expected local cost share in comparison to what is financially possible through our tax levy and I think that's that is what we are actually worried about because if we raise the tax the school tax C up to 2% that would take 24 years to cover5 to6 million gap that's that's obviously unrealistic so but you don't but no the ideas go above the C what those numbers are talking about and saying everybody listen when we get done to revamp that state a thing is going to say this this town can support a ton more money okay because there it's all just a formula of what the total assess are in the town so we're going to go through a process now where assessments are probably going to be near double what they are overall for the whole town so I hear you but that's like and we're I'm happy to help with the state in terms of what we can do to Lobby to get changes there and that's enough that's screwed up all that but like as far as local fixing it locally like it's really we're happy to help to be involved in it but it's like it's not like just it makes no sense for us to be doing a referendum to raise taxes to give to the school district it does they can do it sure and we understand that I think we're looking at methods without raising taxes and I and I it does sound like it is feasible without a referendum that more of the incoming tax money from Pilots could in out so so that's why a few years ago we said said if we're doing any more pilots okay which we've done one in the Last 5 Years with 900 hat if we do any more pilots we will take a substantial portion of that and dedicate it to athletic fields we talked with the school board about that talk I don't know if was I don't know if super same super was here it might have been might have was it talked with them went over it here's the plan great good terrific and the money from 900 we have kind of portioned it off and held so yes we're in that's why we announced doing that if water tower ever goes be the same idea um yes with you what percentage of those Pilots are going towards the school when you talk about putting a substantial amount of that money what does that look like like for example 900 hading how much money it would be for I I think 100 80% I think of the we yeah what's the gross dollar number I think it's I don't think it's a huge amount it's not a huge number six figures for the first year none of none of no pilot we do again is going to be the size of what like when we did parkw okay 100 cuz Parkview we cut like a crazy deal because we had to it was like the end of the world we had to I think our intention isn't it's it's it's not meant to vilify anyone or to to point fingers that because I don't think that would really get us anywhere I I really do think that um we're at a very interesting time where the state will not come save your and I don't know other revenue revenue sources that the district could potentially P to and I I don't I don't want you to think that we're saying just simply move money out your Municipal budget into the school district budget that in theory is probably not feasible but I it does feel like maybe conversation kind of got along the way and it maybe just needs to be revamped in some capacity because I I I do think everyone no matter what side you're on in a variety of topics I really do think everyone can agree you do need to bring more money into the district you do need to fairely fund teacher salaries etc etc no one would disagree with that so so and I can we advocated that in July to the board mention because the part you pilot right these don't last forever part you pilot just to and this will connect the number there right it's going to end in several years few years a cou of years just a few just a few years so which which point the money gets split three ways County municipality so that will not if that number was stayed the same it wouldn't change anything that's still stable it would just be if you went to the next page that supporting where it's 225 would then be 225 plus X right so if we need more right if the p need to be bigger forget about who gets how big of the slice it needs to be bigger it's kind of has I mean I feel like and I served on school board feel like they should do it and I and I would support it because I mean we should have partnership to make sure good students money that were mindful things um but but ultimately you know to get a bigger P rest there and then when things like I said part two is going to come off that doesn't necessarily change everything everything is wonderful they have all this new money no it just means the rest of the money will be the incumbered Upon Us in a different formula um the other thing I'd say I don't I don't quite have an answer to this um maybe smarter people too is resources have always been a problem in this town and I sent three kids to these schools and love these schools I'm so grateful to for what these schools did for my kids high achieving students I had nothing for and I take all credit for for their their achievements I have ones that had uh IEPs and academics were difficult and the you level of service that they received through special education stuff was fantastic um and and and a child who sort of sort of in between and I'm really grateful but it was never about resources it was really about resourcefulness and I feel like it's one thing Collingswood has always done well and maybe we're not doing it so well right now and and that's like how do we you know we can look at this and say this is a budgetary problem and it's just that but to me it's it's an academic achievement problem and it's a it's a it's a school culture it's you know there's dispirited students at the high school level right they're not happy being there they're feeling you know Val there's teachers feeling that the same way there's parents who are anxious there's there's members of the community cens that are anxious we're all there and I feel like we have a lot of smart people here and you know I don't have the answers but I do think there could be ways that we could create things that are special things that are meaningful there could be public private Municipal School District Partnerships to do everything from um John K and I few years few years ago 10 years ago College you know did a whole bunch of stuff on colge college prep and they did ran an SAT prep we did some other things teaching uh helping students how to fill out applications and write essays and all these things and it was really just a few people rolling up their sleeves feel like we have more of those people now and uh who are willing and able to bring a talent to bring the resources of caring of of their experience of their knowledge and that resources will get it so far but I think resourceful this can't be taken off the table and I'm not saying you're saying that I know you know that but I just I feel as a as a public servant I need to sort of put that charge out there and people can hold me accountable to it and say we also need to be thinking about that how do we develop these you know ideas and Partnerships and ways to improve student achievement student you know and their experience was no still listening okay all right okay we boun around y question Jim Drive um I appreciate the explanation when I saw those numbers it was I open to me and us this back 20 years probably longer we always seem to be underfunded at the school level so my question is how did we get to that place where we're always at this 47% Mark and the average is 52 53% what was the Imp for that obvious our friend way out but why are we always fing resources compared to SCH first first referendums that have been go down over years no it's got nothing to do with referendums they're only Capital that's only Capital it's to build stuff that's all nothing to do with operating they used to do your budget you know yeah you would vote 10 years ago years but let me just first say this we don't run the schools okay so I have a hard time explaining to you why they ain't got no money okay I don't do that we do but listen yeah no the answer I think you're all saying the answer which is there needs to be more money in the budget okay and it's they no they need to just go out to ask the taxpayers to raise the budget yeah raise the budget I think and listen I we have had this discuss discussion it was pretty quick in July but like shouldn't we you know when there were other focuses but shouldn't we be having the conversation about how do we fix this how do we do we go out on a referendum to fix that as you've talked about here before that structural deficit and it and it arises because think of home if you increase by 2% only a year and your health costs your salaries are going up three four five at some point you're done you're no longer cutting fat you're cutting meat right you're cut you're cutting M so that's 473 look listen that to me that ratio number that's doesn't mean anything okay because we can cut the municipal budget tomorrow in half okay if we cut the municipal budget in half on go back one on that number the municipal budget is 12 so if we make it six okay that ratio of what the town supports the schools with goes up to 65% and the schools get not one more penny so forget but that's the ratio that's that ratio that you're worried about that ratio doesn't mean anything the ratio what what matters is the 19530 ain't enough to do everything they want to do in the schools they need more money I hear you that's what they said I'm still struggling to understand it's been an issue for 20 years and they're always under and you're tell I don't know that it's been an issue for 20 years we're an outlier right you be we're an out as far as percentage of what the town is what the school get that and so okay when you say to what the taxpayers pay yes okay tax yes so if if it's been that way and the taxpayers are always paying this number and the school are getting this percentage that's less than other pounds again I'm just trying understand where the only way to get there is to referend was there a low ask that that was there 20 years ago I don't know I'm the guy we don't really we don't do the school budget I don't know I don't have all the answers and I'm going to give you an example of Bridget and Steve we communicated this on on email so I was just messing around looking at numbers because that's what I do right and you know I was looking at the cost per pupil and I said oh we're going to be so much lower than all these other schools and yet it really wasn't and I don't yet know like why that is so if we look at that we're like kind of like around the middle of you know all the schools I mean I I can tell you that's probably because of the state aid we get for students the per pupil cost includes things like students who are economically disadvantaged and there's Title One funds for students with disabilities the way that the state formula works is that every student is weighted a certain percentage and we get more Aid and so that is most likely because of the economic diversity in our schools versus a Township like Township would be my guess on why that number is more to the middle even though we are getting less funds from the town to to me to me it's it's a simple equation if 9 195 is not enough to keep all the teachers to pay the teachers what you you know what what they feel they should to run the school to do it properly if it's not enough like if they're they're handling the finances right and it's not enough then need to get more okay and I get asking us for more but they have the same route to get more same round and we wanted to talk about that a couple months ago um and there didn't seem to be any interest in okay fact it's not that it didn't seem they said no yes question um name and address please just for the record sorc keep just keep in Hol okay we'll get you doesn't the state determine what um number how much funding the schools need to um run adequately for year there there is a number determined by the state so I mean and that 19 is is well underneath it I don't think they require require anything they just give what they want to give the adequacy fund like they're not saying hey this is the number we think you should spend you have to spend that no well because clearly they don't because that's what we spend you're out of my bwick I don't do the school budget haven't done it never done it so we can't accuse them of not not budgeting properly because they are getting significantly less than what the state has determined they need to run and they also determine and and please fact check me Stephen Bridget how much it would be appropriate for the town to contribute and there is a very significant Gap when they when you say town you don't mean municipal government you mean taxpayers exactly okay not disting I know so well I know well I but let me just tell you a lot of the a lot of the world out there that has said wonderful things okay like they think it's municipal government okay so it's taxpayers so if it's taxpayers aren't paying enough they're paying what they're asked to pay nothing more so the the question you have to ask them you have to that's an important point this they cannot they can didn't over over since Chris Christie right that that's kind of when you say Jamie how did we get here and you know I think it's it's the it's the slow bleed right of all right we have 3% budget increase and we're raising revenues to three four one year two and when you never go to sort of make it a sustainable number the one that connects to your expenses you end up with instead of a small hole small death a big one and that's that's that requires some hard decisions and you know we have the some other voices yes sir C questions you keep saying we have to go out Tawn around us have a percent of M it's not you that are decided I'm not I'm not suggesting it is who who is this ear that percentage and why is it that our neighboring accounts are contri more to theol I'm not I'm not good question it's a good question I'm not saying you are dancing around this question of 57 4752 how do we get that number up so it's a good question I just want to say right so when we talk about going to referendum when you have to exceed 2% right state law um you only have to do it you only have to do it once County and right so so but that's what I'm saying if you if you need to exceed that c you only have to go you don't have to go if you if you just if you get it to the right place and then you can go 2% a year you only have to do it once so I don't know about other towns because haven't haven't been asked to look at it it's not I don't run schools there but but maybe they did it at some point maybe they just always have had a healthy you know their their budget I I can't answer this is the last I'm toy ask I'm saying keep the I'm not saying taxes I'm saying we're not going up 2% explain to me howfield and Township how is their percent High who made that decision how did we get that it's because their budget is higher a higher percentage I tell you what you let me finish it okay my answer no you can keep talking over me you as the question no you asked the question I started to answer okay you you have to have the school budget be higher as a percentage as in relationship to the municipal budget and the county budget there is nothing the county or the municipality can do to increase that number because the School number because they're at their cap to okay and the way if anyone wants to raise that that 195 has to go up okay that's the only way you don't it's not it there's no you don't take money take $2 million out of the municipal budget 10 put it to 10 million to okay and we'll just decide which firemen get laid off which cops get laid off which how trash changes like you can't take you can't take from the other budgets without affecting what they do okay that's all it's not and I'm really not trying to argue with you I'm just telling you I already expressed that ratio between those numbers that is a meaningless number okay a meaningless number what matters is does each of the entities have the money they need to properly provide their service and if one does do we yeah we do we are well we're F we're not doing everything we'd like to do have okay yeah that's why that's why no that's not how it works but that's okay yes sir so um a couple Wayne just name and address please um so a couple things coming out of this whole process uh the first is um have you guys actually reached out and gotten a meeting with either the board or the administration of the schools because it seems like that kind of thing should be it it should I called the superintendent the day before this last election uh he called me back I spoke with him and and conve what I left in my message was that we were ready to no matter the outcome of September 17 we were ready to start working on Wednesday I also called the school board president and left that exact message I have not heard back you guys I have not heard anything back we'll talk about that the school um because I do think it needs to be everybody everybody not just and not just the people the front of rooms people people in town everyone SH now so the second thing is I know um I know that you've said that you have money and uh for rep and I I'd like to know more about where that's starting to go particularly one of the things that would have gotten out of the referendum would be would have been that sharp would have been a youth Community Center and uh I know that there are programs like Girl Scouts and odyssey of the M that are looking for space in collinswood and cannot get space in collinswood at affordable rates and that there's need for programming that's not at the schools or the library for youth in town so yeah we agree uh uh we're going we want to have discussion uh we understand that the school district has extended their lease on Good Shepard school for a year okay uh we we we want to discuss with them one of the things we want to discuss with them is utilizing the gymnasium whatever they are for things like Odyssey of the mind because we're losing the space that we had gotten for them before over at the county parks they're they're going to actually put offices in at that building over near Park viiew over on Newton okay so yeah we want to talk to them about that about setting that up uh we had intended we you know and we've been through this before but we had thought we were in a joint plan to look at Fields wreck and that's what part of this pilot was to be dedic ated for not that you know 60 70 grand right now is going to buy anything but you can borrow against it you know can get we get that every year so we can buy something uh we kind of haven't moved much on all that because things went a different direction in March April May where there was another plan to do Fields not what we thought we were all working on so like I said the day before for this election called asked to sit down and talk to try to go over and get this you know try to get us kind of you know rowing in the same direction a little bit okay the last thing I'd ask um so I know that you made it clear that from your P from what you have said that pilot money is netted out essentially from the school but from the school tax words that if you give if you took all the pilot money and gave it to school right now that it would essentially clear out that much that other taxpayers are paying is that is that accurate go back to that page right that's the board that's the board's page right see that there okay so but what you're saying but what would what happens right now I just want to make sure I understand it's a net it's a net but like so if there was all the pilot money went to the school set just like it's like $2 million or something right is is the amount that Pilots bring in would that lower everyone else's taxes enough that uh a referendum for increasing taxes wouldn't be felt as much no because it would leave a two $2 million shortfall in the municipal budget okay it's all listen it's all the same pocket right it's all the same pocket so if you're taking any we are in a process of weaning that what like like said the pilot money ends in just a few years okay park is all gone you're not we're not going to be discussing this anymore it's all going to go away okay but we're weaning off of that so that there's not a severe drop like it's being used for capital projects for things if we were ever like I said the burrow municipal government can go out the referendum and get 2 million extra dollars okay everybody's taxes go up at $2 million we can take that money and transfer it to the schools I would sit down and want to have real hard discussions about how we do that because like we did when we had the park you profit we would try to maximize state aid and do it in a way that does not affect them what the fields and everything offered us was we would build a field we would we because it was going to be a joint Community the plan was it was going to be like don't if there was going to be a turfield which hopefully there's a turfield that doesn't kill everybody but if there's going to be some kind of field where we could have more use of it so that travel soccer could play here and the football team could play there and all like we could do that then the burrow would invest that money out of the pilots right we would spend that save the schools the money money we'd be building all that stuff on their land okay and do it cooperatively that was the idea and we want to see if we're back to that idea okay but we got to have discussion about it go ahead well no let me answer that okay no person or entity decides what the ra IO is of the tax level the ratio is made up by doation for me pass that ratio which is why I say it's not it's not a relevant number that ratio is made up by determining what the county tax budget is the school tax budget is and the burrow tax budget is no person decide we don't decide that no person comp bud there's no such what's a competing budget there's no such thing say we're saying million gap State maybe that's unrealistic right so the school is underfunded so we're asking that to go up you're saying the can't go down right the well no the if the school needs money then the school I presume will look for ways to get that money it really is though there's really likee think about it there's there's there's nine School Board thees they no no no just give me give a second there's n School Board representa we should thank them they have thankless jobs so we should thank them we can agree with what they do we can disagree we can you know that's a spectrum of how we feel about things but every year they pass a budget we have nothing to do with other than they give us a number our job is to collect that money and so we do and they say this is what we want I'm simply asking other communities do other communities do it no differently the only difference is and you can you can f you can make that that ratio work however you want by changing the numbers if the if the municipal tax budget Municipal Levy is $6 million right when we do the percentages of what percentage 19 is of a number that's now 35 total it's going to be a greater percentage okay it doesn't get the schools another nickel I I'm saying you're I I understand the concern but focusing on that ratio does not necessarily get the schools a nickel you have to increase the 195 M number to get them more money that's it I think that's what and in all honesty I feel like it was a bit of a misation to assume that Bri brought this up to insinuate that you would reduce the municipality budget so much so that people would lose their job it's obviously not what we're saying what we are saying is there does need to these small incremental steps along the way to fix the Gap because truth is we are the only ones in this area of similar size school districts of this Gap it's by millions incremental Ines in what potentially a reduction in how much of local tax so that that all that means no okay so what that no but what that means what that means is reducing the municipal budget right million which is what was characterized earlier what's that you had indicated that we were saying right now redu by2 million no that's not we well you no no no no what what I said was and I think it's what was in your email that you said we need to find a way to get $2 million additional money into the school district right I'm not mistaking that am I I'm saying that I said that the gap between what the New Jersey state average based on the money that we collect in another town that would be $2 million more based on that ratio that you don't want to say is a real number which is fine so what I'm saying is that as a taxpayer I want more of my money to go to the schools and less to other things so that the schools have money to pay teachers that's what I want and what I am trying to find a way in the LA clear thing I understand to figure out that be done and that could be done and the way that is done is say instead of a 2% cap next year they go out and say we're going to do four okay and we're going to increase that budget we're going to increase that there's no it there is no there's no mechanism for this body or anybody to say okay out of that right there we're going to say this money is Shifting over here okay it's like it the listen I'm not I use it as example the request about the 2 mil it is I don't think you can do ever do it all once but it's it's something to look at to have a 5-year plan a 10year plan to go bumping it up a little bit some towns right are going back we were being told going going back to the old method going back to April elections have the budget put up for election every year so that they don't have to be bound by the cat Okay some to are doing that like we're not alone that's not like not a bad idea okay um it is it it's you know it's not a bad idea but yeah we're happy to talk and figure out and help with it takes two to Tang we're we're ready happy always have wanted to yeah okay want a rose Rosary name and address for the can I talk about something other than you can talk about whatever you want that's the time just and char from one of the people a secret that the maybe you know the two departments are linked by their and El they can never go condom as a result that I don't know I know it's not separately metered no yeah so we have no we have no idea how it's being done we're now being charged being charged better $300 sewer and keep add I have know I'm moving I just wondered they say they take the whole bill and it up other than exed two guys another two depart two guys in one apartment they must have higher rent than or higher not higher R higher utilities than me but I have to share with them I think our understanding is because we've got call presidents and I'm speaking very is that it is Master metered like you said that's a term they use to to meter a whole building and because they can't meter individual units it's done byting so somebody with a two-bedroom that's you know feet all those two boms feet are going to pay X that's the only way and then you know larger unit might be more utility smaller unit so yeah you're somebody with a th foot unit May more or less than their neighbor but you're all going to get the same utility I justess management yeah if you need us to try to get information from that we can try to do that I'd appreciate that because they have separate they have a separate utility company called yes in Lakewood that has been sent usill sometimes it says AMS water very confusing the whole I'm here on community basically you have my email we've gone through this with management when they started and I can we can try and get information out it's called gu doing water yeah I was going to say water oh my God okay so they're okay so they they're the they're the billers they're not the supplier gotcha gotcha okay it keeps going on but put it in our and I said I didn't I don't okay will Cassandra be in touch with you WR to Cassandra will'll be in touch with you we'll check with M see what you get from I anything I would like to know how they figure it because I have a feeling the guys me are paying the same as I am and I as much they probably are they the same thank you good Luol thank you thanks Rosary anybody else questions comments y k yeah um name and address please just for the record yeah 126 East Palmer Avenue um yeah this is separate from the school funding stuff though I appreciate all the work that Steve and Bri put into all of that and I very much agree that we need to put it thund schools um but kind of connected to this issue of our tax dollars reflecting our values and potentially picking up some savings um I know in the next couple months we local government will either be going out to bid or entering into professional contract agreements and I think this year more than ever we have an opportunity to contract with companies that are going to be leading in ethics a lot of us spend our money Guided by voting our values and with our dollar um so I think in 2025 it is imperative that we not contract with Conor strong and bucko Parker McKay and brown and connory the principles of those three firms are on their investigation for 13 counts of corruption and we should not be putting our tax dollars there we've been saying our tax dollars us so I don't want any of more my tax dollars going in those directions um whatever happens to georgean friends will be determined after January when we'll be awarding those contracts so I would love to hear you speak to that issue of how you will address those three particular contracts again of con Conor strong and bucko Parker McKay and brown Conor there are plenty of attorneys and insurance companies so what are their options when we look to this year yeah I'll just say you know we you know we don't do it every year I don't think it's a good way these are Professional Services I should just point out right in most uh in in in in in most purchasing type things is there's a you know competitive lowest responsible B Professional Services don't work don't work like that right because Professional Services it's a it's a little different um we go out to bid every three four years like we're probably due to do that again um you know I think you know you you you you say you know Brown Conor I I say to Joe n this guy is a fantastic attorney who has done such great work for us and I'm I you know to to me the value is is Joe nardy Joe nard does does great work for us and if he didn't he wouldn't be here you know he'll be okay he understand the business bu he knows that these things happen sometimes and and maybe that'll happen and maybe it won't you don't want anyone to get soft and lazy in their jobs and to to not do it we went out for insurance last time we were certainly open to to using someone else Hong came with the the best rates you know there's a reason why people shop at you know Target and sometimes in in Amazon and stuff like that we don't like everything they do sometimes but you know sometimes the business model WR we'll see maybe they will be and maybe they won't if there are people that you feel that should you know when we when we put out for this stuff that should put their names in get them inir us we want to know who else is out there we want people to be competitive we want we want folks to to earn our our our resources um but the other side of it is is we also need to know that just not anyone with the lowest number it brings value to to to to the municipality so we want to make sure that they're good and you check their standards make sure all the all the rates for for all of our all of our Professional Services what everyone else is it's not like anyone here is getting x amount more than than other areas I'll just add this none of the individuals um uh we don't deal directly with any of the individuals that are involved as I understand it they can kind of step back from their companies none of the allegations involve any of the work with municipalities involve any of the insurance work legal work that we're involved with at all and when we get to that point where we're going to do Award of contracts we'll review them all and we'll make those decisions thank you okay yes sir Joe bouier 21 St James Avenue Merchantville I'd like to follow up on Miss Delaney's comments um the charges against these individuals who are the principles of these firms include racketeering conspiracy including influencing government contracts conspirac y to commit theft by extortion and criminal coercion and financial facilitation of criminal activity these are pretty serious charges dealing with government corruption and influencing government contracts and I'd like to give an example in 2021 the controller of the state of New Jersey conducted an audit of pens sain's finances and found that penen overpaid its insurance contract Services by $1.6 million of a $40 million Municipal budget by using Conor strong and Buckaloo recommended insurance provider rather than using the State Insurance Fund so my question is what are you going to do to make sure that these services that are being given by these firms that are charged with corruption are really in the best interest of the taxpayers because this is an easy way for the town to be overcharging its citizens through its taxes because of corruption in government so you better be careful on how you do your contracts right you're absolutely right and let me just can I ask you the Pensa that was about medical insurance it was okay employee employee coverage employee heal health coverage exactly and the charge was that the I'm Vaguely Familiar with it was that the town could have saved money by going into the state health benefits plan instead of going with the health insurance fund the Self Insurance Pool okay and I touched on that earlier tonight okay and I have no knowledge whatsoever about any of the pensock and finances about any of that but one reason why we might decide to pay more is because the coverage for our employees is better okay or is the same so just because the state comes in and says hey you could have saved money we could save money we could save money by getting less coverage and painless number one number two you said those firms were charged with fraud that's not correct that is not correct the principles of the firms no you yeah when you talked about it you talked about the firms engaged in corruption you got it all tap so you can go back and look at them all okay principles the principles of the firms and there are allegations against them absolutely they're serious aware of them where that goes we'll see frankly as a lawyer and I think there's a lot of people have this opinion I'm not so sure there's meat on the bone there okay that there's any crime that's been committed but that's for the courts side that's for the courts to figure out but in the meantime while there's allegations against individuals that we don't deal with that do not involve anything that we're doing or that colinwood has done the allegation is that that development in Camden was thwarted by at their direction there's nothing like that that's happened here haven't talked to any one of those people about any kind of development in colinwood I would say ever okay so I'm not worried that those types of things are happening we will when we get to the point where we're awarding those contracts we'll take a look at it all and see where things stand things might change thank you yeah I would just jump in say as a non seor to say that is involved in callings with development that's not the point the point is our tax dollars we're talking about our tax dollars I'm saying our tax dollars should not be going to those firms I hear you because an individual at the firm has been charged with something I understand thank you understand thank you thanks anyone else can I sure you should give your name and address oh I'm sorry young I Avenue right over the park um I would like to go back to some of the discussion about the school and the school budget and all that has nothing to do with the arguments for or against I know as a longtime resident here there was a point in time in the exact year I don't remember it might have been 2018 2017 School Board came to the to the community and said look we need money to and this is you know a one shot deal but we will be paying forever um to fund the mental health needs of our middle school and our high school stud this and everybody said without a doubt yes let's do this and we funded it then it was a referendum and we're still funding it so to say that we can't do a referendum through the school budget through the school board I think that's where we need to go because they know how and what they need the dollars for we didn't say that pardon me we did not say that we know they okay well I'm saying though that what my experience here is when the school board does that the community says yes when there's a real need there we say yes we don't want to our CH our students to go without well I have loved this conversation I'm happy to engage it all the time I hope this you have this discussion and conversation like we're doing right now with school officials okay and we're happy to be a part of it happy to be a part of that anytime trying to we trying to do that anyone anything else anybody else thank you Dodger fans still here okay we're [Music] [Music] oh yeah yeah thank you