all right good evening everyone thanks for taking the time out here started myci I volte I'm going to do a couple things the purpose of our I want to note that not fa to maximize our time we're going to ask folks have unlike comment clarifying question clarifying questions ask what where and when not that can be answered quickly time where can I ele our goal is to hear as many voices as possible so we're going to ask folks to limit themselves to one question before everyone who would like to ask opport um and just share your name with us come up address uh finally before we start I would like to introduce some Community agreements for the evening when we come together here at the town we have a real opportunity to engage as a former teacher and as a current leader who works onal of young people every day you know we can really serve as a model positive and I offer the following agreements which I will share on a slide um as a foundation for tonight's conversation so the first uh Community agreement I would offer here tonight is respect so we we understand these topics are deeply personal and important to individuals and our community and we seek to learn from one another and treat each other with respect and civility the second I would offer tonight is empathy we recognize that this proposal contains changes that elicit a heightened emotional response and we honor that emotion uh third I'd like to offer up curiosity we engage as Learners and recognize the time and thought that went into this proposal while acknowledging the perspectives that it may be missing we ask questions to seek understanding and finally Evolution our goal tonight is to answer questions from those submitted and those here tonight 90 minutes will likely not suffice uh for for every question to answer so please know that this process is evolutionary um and that there is another session coming out which will outline the next steps of again I ask that you listen process answer uh and respond with the sentiment of of the spirit of those Community agreements you will hear me using the language through the evening uh I also have the the you when kids were speaking about walking out to the town hall about a year ago a couple weeks before town and um it was emotionally charged they were very uh expressive about not being her about not being also in that there was another uncomfortableness showed up to serve kids without a new process and the whole situation made it uncomfortable kids were hurting adults were being accused and it was story after Story and I remember thinking and I got up and said it at the time and this is when the we re started the DI committee was about about you know that sometimes it's most of the time it's the system and it's not the people and a little bit more to what Julia spoke about I just wanted to touch and say that whatever happened in the high school the kids black and white need us regardless of how it was spoke regardless of what anybody thinks right or wrong wrong about the actions they're screaming for help in their own way and It's upsetting and disappointed not in anybody that a year ago we were having the same discussion with the same things of this discussion and how we act as professionals and adults when we disagree sometimes I feel like creates the space for kids to feel like it's okay to not nice to each other so I just wanted to start saying myself and speaking for myself not as not for the board not for this ad hoc committee and still optimistic I'm optimistic that people grow showed up to ask questions that people are in support of this and that some people aren't in support and that they're bringing dialogue and conversation as to why they're not because I'd like to think that we are all here to make this school district better and I feel like from a board and administration standpoint that they're doing what they feel is what's best for this district and from a teacher standpoint and being married to an educator of 22 years and the teachers that my kids have experienced are the hard as a hardworking and dedicated to kids that are not theirs as any teachers in any district and as a parent and friends with tons of parents in this town I feel like parents are doing everything that they can and yet we have data and evidence of these incidences and our academic achievement that shows that we're not our results is not meeting our efforts and I personally believe that that has more to do with structure than people now in that element and we're talking about equity and inequities um and the concern because the number one question um that we got was about the inequity of transportation for these kids and what this change means for and um one of the things that we've talked about as a group that started and to be clear is that Dei did not drive this reform no one got up and said let's rearrange the schools for diversity Equity inclusion personally I'd be all for it regardless of whether Good Shepherd was an option or not but I think that we just need to clear some overarching themes of what's happening is is that the option of Shepherd became available and we talked about the benefits of it not that Di and academic and we need to make these changes so when we talk about the benefits from the equity and the inclusion we operated from a snapshot of where we are and what this means in that so I say that because I think there's concerns that or questions and questions that we receive that people move forward stating that about how is this Equitable or how this is inclusion and how did you come to that and this process started three years ago with the ability to purchase contr so I'm GNA move on to the questions I'm sorry for the um the side but I felt like it needed to be said um the transportation and the inequity of the transp and what does that mean for the town and as inequitable as that is we are trying to weigh the discomfort that comes from the traffic and the concerns the additional walking to the needs that all of our kids have so there is no being dismissive of the distance and what this creates there is no dismissiveness of what it means for drop offs but we're trying to weigh that to serving kids needs academically and in inclusion and if anyone has had the opportunity to read our scores and see where we are everyone is just really trying to take this option and make the best decision so it's not uh no one is stating that the travel and distance isn't inable because that would not be true but what we're saying is we're trying to weigh the things that become inequitable to the needs that we have and part of what those needs are and when weighing that is looking at where our kids are from K to eth to high school with the understanding that it starts in the beginning and this is where we prek and K's in the beginning and and what our kids are where our kids are is a result and real data as to what we're doing is working and what doing is not so um it's taking that data and we're not going to go through um all the test scores and reports but it's has been asked we'll be reaching out with some of the information that we did review and how we got to this point but when we're talking about Equity we're trying to weigh the spe the aspect that in eighth grade 16% of our white kids are proficient so when Educators see those numbers and an opportunity comes up the question is not about how we're hurting people or how we're taking something away even though that is a real emotion and a real feeling the question is what can we do if everybody's doing the best that they can in fourth grade African-American kids have a zero Proficiency in Reading across the district so it's these things when we're talking about Equity that yes Transportation matters that should not be dis miss or minimize walks traffic safety of parents and kids and special education kids getting off bus matter and we're trying to weigh those needs with the needs of where we are as a District academic and um some other questions just moving forward is um why would this not be done on Election Day the thought process in the planning along with the architect and submissions this is the biggest referendum that this school referendum that this town would have done in over 20 years it then deserves to be the primary focus on Election as we all know we have a presidential election and regular elections this is not some cause to mistreat or low turnouts this is important and I I don't know any other way outside of all of our frustrations would turn out that if you can't turn out and vote on one way of how you feel about this that it's just not um there are some concerns about and a question that we received about what about the kid If This Were to pass what about the kids over the next three years who are in those schools and um teachers and concerns about maintenance and I can assure you in these conversations that we will continue Serv serving the kids as we do right now till this day when this whether this referendum passes or not every single day as far as inclusion um I'm just going to kind of go back to the numbers that we presented before and um one of the things that we talked about is that we are a 41% inclusive district and the only thing and we did not receive a lot of questions on that but the only thing I would say is if there was any other subsection in a school district of kids that were excluded in a 66 at 60% rate 60 sorry 59% rate we would all be marching on schools we are the worst in the state in one of the worst states in the country and our structure as it is today does not allow for that to be more inclusive if it did I believe because of the previous this superintendent and the previous superintendents and the previous boards and the previous principles if this structure allowed for us to be more inclusive then we would be more inclusive as far as diversity I'm just going to read from the American Federation of teachers and this is kind of be the last statement for me before I pass it on along the bread is um racial and social economic School integration has proven to be one of the most powerful strategies known to educate to improve Prov students and National students who attend integrated schools are more likely to seek out integrated set later young children experiences with Intergroup contact have longterm consequences research shows that plentiful positive early cross group interactions result inre Comfort Liv and working in diverse environments as particularly for young people the ability to form cross cultural relationships in school settings can be extremely um this report goes a lot further again if anyone is interested in it after we after this is over please reach out to me but there is uh plenty of reports from the American Federation of teachers the NIH that talks about how more diverse kids serve our students um this is most of the questions that we have received in regards to the one last is that there was a question about IEP and um special education and is the ultimate goal of this plan to make sure I'm right now I so good evening everyone um thank you uh again for being here uh so first uh following Julia my name is f proud superintendent of col schools uh but more importantly I'm A Garfield parent a first grader and assume to be coling and so what I would say is that uh as a community we all own the future and so there's a there's a role for each of us to play and how we are supporting our young people um and so the question that I'm going to to to try to to reflect and answer to the best of my ability is so we talked about some of the systems and processes and actions uh but we didn't talk about the goal so I want to make sure that we are all crystal clear in what our initial goal was when we started this process after we made the announcement in September of 2022 of our intent to come back to you as a community with a cohesive so our goal ultimately is to increase student access to educational space in college and so that's the over guiding principle for all of the decisions uh that we have uh made leading up to this point and so it is pretty common knowledge that we have been over capacity at the elementary level for many many years but it is also our Collective responsibility to ensure that all students in our community have what they successful and as you heard from from Bruce uh systems and structures that serve as barriers to our young people it is incumbent that we remove said so the initial question that we posed to uh The Architects and the engineers it was not a skewed it was not a biased question it one simple question what can we do based on the facilities that we have and the resources that our disposal to increase educational space in Colin and so our um professionals they went they analyzed every facility uh in the inventory of the school district in addition to Good Shepherd which uh has been the Crux of of some of our decisions um and then they came back to us with what could and could not be done in each and every building so we explored all of our options but to be extremely direct and transparent the reason why that we have options available is due to the unfortunate closing of the Good Shepherd during the pandemic and that helps to propel the conversation forward because without good shepher this conversation would be a so uh when we look at how to move forward how to uh ask questions or how to even think about some of these things I think it's also important for us to acknowledge that u in a successful outcome we are planning for September of 2027 and so let me say that again we are planning for a successful outcome to begin September of 2027 and so discussing hypotheticals those are not discussions um would not start until after we have a positive response we say that uh we share that but also to let you know that these concepts are not being lost they're not being ignored they are on the radar we just simply don't have all the information to be able to provide answer about things like class size per grade enrollment is determined uh six to nine months prior to the beginning of the school year we would not have projected uh enrollment numbers to give you a concrete answer until 2026 uh in addition to traffic studies and other studies that have emerged based on some of the questions within the FAQs and so it's important to also acknowledge the difference between an annual school budget which is focused on daily operations and a referendum which is solely for construction projects within our annual budget uh we don't operate in hypotheticals we operate in concrete so traffic studies demographic studies additional what if scenarios additional design options and opportunities those are things that are not able to be funded within a daily operational budget and so those are soft costs that are often Associated once a referendum has been approved and there is funding connected or attached with the referendum to be able to pay for those things and so we do believe that things like traffic studies and demographic studies are important we also believe that catchment uh analysis to make sure that there is minimal disruptive impact on young people is important however that work would not take place until after we have confir response in so um we want to make sure that we are being mindful of all of the questions um for all of the stud that we support So in our community we're supporting roughly 2300 students and their families uh but more importantly we have 14,000 residents within our community um that all have a vested interest in this very so we are trying to balance all of those voices um every voice is important however not every voice or every question is action at this particular moment that does not mean that actions will not be taken in the future just means as of today um we are operating based on information that we have with estimates and projections what conversation might look like thank you Dr mcdell my is rean Kaden I'm the president of the board and um thank you all for coming out tonight um once again to talk about this very important topic um what I am going to address tonight are some of the the questions or themes of questions that came through that asked uh both what the role of the board is and uh was in formulating this plan as well as how things align to bigger picture um roles for the district so first starting with the role of the board uh when any of these sorts of things start it generally starts with an ad hoc Committee of some kind so a small group of the board together to discuss the need in this case the need as Dr mow just pointed out was um had to do with facilities and buildings particularly um in fact the the ad hoc committee had originally started knowing that we had two different types of needs which are addressed in this proposal one of the needs was the facilities for elementary school students the other need was the recreation and athletic facilities behind the high school that um are not what we would want for our children so the committee was tasked a couple of years ago with talking about both of those things as Dr mdal said good Shephard uh stopped being school we learned that it was available and felt that it was important for us to investigate and jump on that potential opportunity because it is literally the only School building left our town don't know um and so what came from that any of um the discussion about potential grade movement um stemmed from okay we have this building that the uh that the professionals that that work for us the Architects the engineers say is the bones of it are in great shape it's bigger than any school building we have it will give our students the opportunity to have a separate gym and cafeteria not have to share the same space how revolutionary for Collingswood um and and we felt that it would uh we had to try to figure this out right so that is where we get to when we come to the lease situation that we are currently in with Good Shepard we feel we got a pretty good deal on the sale price that we locked in and then it was up to us to try to figure out how to get this building and um Matt and Bob are going to talk more specifically about how that process works but what I can say for the board is once we learned what needed to happen the steps that needed to happen in order to acquire a Good Shepherd that's where we came in to start saying okay well what opportunities are there now that we know in order to like I said they're going to get more specific with this but in order to acquire Good Shepherd we would need to decommission to schools to be able to show the need for number of seats so if we had to do that how are we going to uh best serve students knowing that to be the case and that is where we took uh we went back to what our long-term goals have always been upgrading facilities um this would would do that for um potential fourth and fifth grade students and then asking Garrison to go through and tell us well how can we update or add on to other buildings to actually be able to serve all of our students more again they will talk more about why the choices were made about which buildings can be added on to that have to do with uh technical reasons not choice on our part that has anything to do with feeling one school is better than the other anyone in this room that knows me would not say that that was how I would make that decision whatsoever um but it came down to the logistics of the buildings so once we got there then we went back to things that we've been talking about for years now and I'm looking around the room and I know some of you were in the equity committee back in 2017 2018 discussing things like the the inequities in um school performance uh of our five elementary schools what can we do to address that how can we do better by our students than we have been doing and so we've tried to figure out ways as Bruce was trying to point out that we think maybe this if we change the structure of the system a bit we might be able to serve our serve our students better um that is ultimately up for all of you to decide but the role of the board is to try to come up with the um best most feasible most costeffective plan that we can and that's what we believe we've come with and then our role from now on is not to convince you of anything in fact we are not allowed to do that it is to Simply give you our why um how we got to this place and then what the plan entails and then your role is to do exactly what you're been doing and will be doing today which is ask us more questions about it get a better understanding of things come visit the fields if you haven't already to see the condition that they're in now and why it might be worth uh giving them an upgrade uh look more into um how these buildings are going to be designed that might benefit students and then make your your decision from there um but we are here to provide you with that sort of information and that's what we hope that you're doing today and will continue to be doing um after today until the vote and then even after that so I was trying to be brief I'm not sure how brief I actually was I'm G to pass it over to Kate now thanks everyone Hi good evening everyone um thank you so much for coming um I wasn't able to be at the March 26th meeting so I'm very happy to be here tonight um so a lot of you uh ask questions regarding um academics and academic impact so I'm going to be addressing some of those um I think we've gotten a lot of good rationale uh th far are around how decisions around consolidation of schools came about um and I think you know once these options sort of made themselves available we started thinking about the lots of potential benefits there are to some of the consolidation efforts that we're going to be making um and so you know despite loss the potential loss of of two buildings um there are a lot of benefits that are linked to some of the consolidation efforts um um it helps us ensure that students at each grade level are receiving the same educational opportunities um and experiences as their peers across the district um there can be better alignment in assessments Project based learning uh age and developmentally appropriate experiences all of that can be uh ensured a little bit more uh in a Consolidated system um we already heard a lot about opportunities for more inclusion um you know additional Elementary School classrooms means that students their peers um it would mean that they push in models uh that would enable things like co- teing right which we know is a gold standard of inion um it would also make more space for um things like specialized Services things like serving students across different learning formats there would be more space to do that um there are also in addition to some of these academic and learning benefits there are some social emotional benefits to some elements of this plan um there are more opportunities for developmentally appropriate socialization um it can facilitate the formation of friendships uh relationships peer support networks that are not just in one Community but across the town um and that is something I feel like I have heard a lot right I wish that there were space for to do that more um have to follow one cohort right other than Tatum they don't have to follow one cohort their entire Elementary School career right that means that there's a little more room to make space to re uh remix kids if necessary um lots of opportunities to to uh do that and maybe minifi times when kids are across one cohort um there's also the ability to prepare fourth and fifth graders more for Middle School um um which prepares them more for what is coming when they hit 63 um we also see some possibilities for our teachers in this plan I'm looking at a bunch of them right here thank you for being here um a lot of you asked about this in the FAQ so I wanted to address it um we firmly believe that teachers are most effective uh when they are treated as professionals and respected in their Craft um and we think space is part of how you do that um so Consolidated Schools could for co- planning uh for professional development that is catered to different base for some of those meetings we know have to occur um and and there are opportunities for leadership and specialization for teachers um the plan creates particularly opportunities for teachers of fourth and fifth grade um who might be able to specialize um in certain uh uh content areas or subject areas um because this plan might enable fourth and fifth graders to travel it means that teachers could also be uh uh moving toward a specialization model where they wouldn't have pressure to teach multiple subjects they can find you their craft in in certain subject areas um really quickly uh there were also questions around prek and academics with prek um our goal is always to get to the 100% of our prek universe um this plan helps us get there we don't know what the pre Universe looks like in September 2027 um so we can't know exactly but the flexibility what happens if the referendum doesn't pass what happens to certain students and and the truth is that if we if we don't purchase the good Shephard building uh there may be serious academic and other impacts on students um as uh Reagan just said yes it's a missed opportunity also mean that if or inevitably when very old buildings have things happen there potentially would be nowhere for students to go if there would need to be a renovation um or something that would take them out of the school um there's no state aid for emergency construction there's no um state aid in emergency situations for renovations right so we would really without that without a bond we would have to rely on our Capital funds and until those are there it would mean that students might be left in difficult situations um and so for example we wouldn't ever want to consider doing something like two shifts of Elementary School in one building but if there is no other choice for where to send kids that might be something that would have to happen um and of course this would possibly have impacts on Staffing on teaching which we know is something that is of great concern in this community um so again I don't want to end on a negative note because I wanted to address many of the academic benefits of this plan but I do think and not only because many of you asked about it that it's important to acknowledge the the reality that we're in and uh there are lots of potential academic and other benefits to this plan that also save us from some of the difficult conversations we would have to have in the future um so with that I'm going to send it over to Matt and and Bob who are going to talk about buildings and Matt I am G jump in and say uh in the spirit of meeting our goal for the evening if you could wrap ni thank you all right interest of being brief but then also direct thank you again everyone for coming out uh appreciate all of the questions that have been submitted so far and the opportunity to continue to answer them throughout this process um one of the first things that came up I want to address first is why the athletic Recreation fields are included in this plan uh that each time and I think as we've been having conversations with community members and stakeholders the need for athletic and Recreation space in town uh has been an ongoing concern that has been brought up uh and we recognize that the space behind High School represents one of the largest plots in down current current positioning of the fields leaves a lot of unused space um we also have to limit the use of the main field and turn away some Community requests for um for accessing that so that we can maintain it for our high school sports programs but then also to ensure that it's able to accommodate our graduations this plan provides an opportunity created throughout physical education athletic communties despite gring areas District just doesn't have the funding on a un basis school and Community soccer teams field hockey lacrosse and other activities all be able to utilize this space and help us to reduce um some of our current night and one of the other things that came up this is in the conversation today was was this idea of Stadium um I think the stadium might be a little bit of a triggering word for folks um so I want to talk a little bit about what this is and not yes we are adding Lees we are in them up to increase the visibility you're back there the way that they currently sit it's tough to see even sport programs but then graduation ceremonies and other things it's hard to accommodate that happens back there so this would create erased bleachers with underneath those bleachers adding in bathrooms locker room space for students concessions ticket stands mechan all Ada compl accessible um again these are things that are not not currently there you soob about last last attempt at addressing this now but trim some of that space under there down make sure that wees not necessarily what everybody has has asked um the other piece too is yes there will be a mix of turf and grass fields the main field will be multiuse line for M Sports um there will be other spaces back there softball fields UMES for practices grass and tur here ated athletic complex and it's my bad for the stadium work is terrible work this is not link to fin this is a community space and neighboring districts have recently improved their Community spaces I think most recently you've probably read about headen Township headen Township had a significant investment in a similar program with lighting and their new grand stand I am part of refs in East just completed their grand stands I'm also working in Aon that was part of the ref the 1930 stadium and I'm also part of some other facilities the community use aspect is important in fact over Jerry Hill municipality now is going to have firewor very what had a sign invest the schools as well as this particular area is a Community Asset belongs to so when we design spaces we always think about what is the maximum use I think by putting grass and in here appropriate bathroom facility so we don't have to back into the high school those facilities a setting is beneficial to everybody the final thought I'll leave you with is academ superintendent about academic spes New Opportunities maybe it's special education Etc facilities have new opportunities for students as well It prepares them maybe for a college or a higher ed experience as well as a high school experience so while we enrich our academics with spaces like science labs and new facilities that we have shepher I think it's also important to take of our popul that would benefit from increase can you all briefly touch on why the two I was just and first and foremost I just want to say that a very process and we wanted to talk a little bit about obstacles realities costs about of why are going for this option versus other and also just briefly to note that this Bond refer will not solve every facility possible that we have there's a long list of La ongoing future projects that we know have to address have registration grounds to about what those are are and when that those are regular conversations real so is with anything we have to look at the acquisition so good shepher good shepher presented itself and we'll use that as an example and then grade our other facilities against that so when we look at it objectively we set for so the first thing is the age and I want to talk about good sheeper as it relates to Garfield as it relates to Sharp the age of good Shephard is 1970 be the newest building in col Wood School District Barfield is 1905 and sharp is 1915 when good sheeper is acquired and the other facilities are taken offline good shepher is 42,46 ft interestingly enough darkfield is 16479 and sharp is 27439 it's a really good shepherd almost replaces square footage with square footage the two retiring buildings then we go in and we look at critical things like Americans with Disability Act compliance vertical circulation is something that comes to mind because those of you that are familiar with G and sharp know limitations but getting from one level to another access manner this is not the case in good sheeper if you remember the schematic that we showed you last time a three-story elevator Edition is easily constructed in the back right hand side building at Garfield the elevator is not feasible due to existing building layout could be extremely disruptive and costly we don't have white carers in order to put this elevator inside the building and it's not really possible to have multip left to get to different elevations same thing is is true with chart elevator really is not going to solve the problem there's interior stairs with both facilities so even though we would solve a problem in a certain part of the building we then couldn't get to an allpurpose room a nurse's Suite or something maybe on the ground floor existing stairs we know that our students have to safely exit our buildings and our staff safely exit our buildings so in our good shepher example we could make those existing stair Towers 8 acre plant they're wide enough to meet Cod a no we have to change the handrail and the pickets on in good good intent or Garfield in sharp that's not the case these stairs are built turn of the century they're very very narrow they're not able to be widened because the structure of the building toilets in the good sheeper plan we're renovating three toilets they're neatly stacked over one another fully ADA Compliant a good shepher they're not ADA Compliant Garfield sorry not 8 comp only in the base none exist except on the third floor over a chart class size we look at classroom space the class size of Good sheeper Good Fortune is 890 sare ft this is in compliance with the facility efficiency stand JY it's 850 so it's actually larger conversely Overfield and sharp square footages of classrooms range from 739 to 751 and then 652 slightly larger being 16 over chart entry doors entry doors can have 88 compant entry doors good shepher however sharp that be very very challenging you think about when you enter those buildings there are interior stairs that get you to different levels that's really not conducive to having accessible rout of Entry nurses Suite right we need a nurse's Suite Suite needs to be properly sized it needs to have a handicap bathroom that can be achieved in the first floor of good sheeper in the basement of Garfield not so much possible first floor rear area same thing over at sharp it's going to be possible to reconfigure that space the allpurpose room sizes well the allpurpose room gym the good Shephard 6240 it's 1775 Garfield and 1800 ft for CH kitchen area full service kitchen will be possible over a good shepher the kitchen serving area in Garfield 182t basement and 187 ft allpurpose from over at Sharp the cafeteria 3200 square F feet it'll be a benefit for those students over there there's none at the other two facilities libraries same thing 950 sare feet versus 700 feet of the other schools are basically classrooms reconfiguring SPAC you say okay you have a small space why can't you just knock the wall down and go ahead and and cut Ro like you maybe would in an office building well that's easily accomplished in the double loaded Carter plan that we have a good Shephard the 1970s building in the 1905 building we have stone construction over a carfield and their bearing Wes which means we can't just cut holes and expand wherever we want to to achieve compliance of classroom size or a bathroom expanding a nurs suite same problems over at sharp CMU Construction in walls very difficult reconfig the spaces security is always on the mind of our community members and with good Shephard plan we're able to have a new mous trap new entrance new secured entrance over at Garfield and sharp very very challenging there's only small vesu each of those schools and access to the the main offices is challenging the investment as you know from the previous cost estimates analysis is $25 million it could shepher over 42,000 ft so about $550 a square foot with all the challenges at Garfield and sharp those costs will be increased not2 million but increase those builds and make some inter Renovations think about just putting small additions on the outside elevators Excavating down get to the lower levels those costs exaggerated storm water issues and other concerns that have so when we looked at the facilities red them out R them good sheer Garfield Shar top very crer that I just through all that information very quickly just a quick clarification bathroom want to pass this back over thanks everyone i' uh like to invite folks to come up um as folks are um coming up to the mic to ask questions just want to remind everyone um please just uh share your name and again ask that you reserve personal thoughts or opinions and ask questions we're going to get through um as many as possible so um for those of you have questions please feel free to uh come up sure it's turned on okay sorry so SCH can you make sure you ask your question directly I would like total project cost right because good because good good sheeper is not a current asset of the district we get $143 foot at 4% because it's not are renovation right then that would you w to answer that sure you would get 40% of the total project cost of renovation so a yeah so sorry he was giving the first cont the time um I think the looking at the space and the renovation cost to get to the point to the place where we can provide the educational experience and the gaps that we have recognized and laid out the beginning of this plan peace meal is not going to do it um and the opportunity of a space that can bring our students together and allow us to create conditions in our other schools is why we're pushing for this level investment versus any of our other current properties if we were to renovate any of our other buildings we're not going to get the level of space and our assets that would create conditions so just one additional piece of clarity I want to go back to and please you can walk to the front while while I answer this I want to go back to the original goal that was stated and the original goal is how do we increase overall educational space simply swapping or renovating existing buildings does not get us the additional space and so without good shepher and without the decommission of specific properties um that does not uh provide us an opportunity to increase educational space and so we would be renovating and maintaining the level of status quo at an increase cost when you touch the buildings you're going to get into a host of other issues you have fire alarm systems then you're into the electrical system now you have an elevator now you have 20y old un ventil so the numbers that I quot were complete renovation of all theti Building Systems safy system just it is but yes the rehabilitation code let me answer your question so the rehabilitation code puts limits on the amount of renovation that you can do to an existing grandfather condition before you have to do the things that I'm talking about so major addition of an elevator major Renovations of bathrooms could trigger full compliance understood there's a lot of people I'm just gonna yep ask you to wrap up in not okay so I'm just the two builds that okay I'm I'm gonna have to for the sake of time ask you to yep thank you okay Lindsay AAR Sharp Elementary I've got loads of questions I'll try and limit it uh first question I guess is with regards to the information you just gave us why sharp and Garfield but you compared it 100% to Good Shepard and that's not that's going to be for completely I mean a subset of those students so what's the comparison to the three buildings that are remaining open from what we heard at the board of ed meeting on March 26 there were major issues at newbie we don't have that at sharp the roof is not leaking there there are no major issues so what you know will that stuff be fixed what are the costs to maintain those three buildings versus maintaining our those buildings were evaluated under similar criteria would you like to go through those with you short uh newbie age 1923 Tate of 1951 newbie's 2,953 Square ft dat's 275 newbie has an elevator dat uh chairlift no elevator could be put in with exterior tears over at Tatum the existing stairs at newbie Ada handrail modifications need to be made Ada handrail handrail modifications need to be made at Tatum steer car or stairs is toilets newbie 8 first floor Tatum 8 first floor class sizes new 734 to 1,51 and Tatum is 802 to 931 entry doors some are ADA Compliant at new same thing at Tatum Ste stairs is an issue nurses Suite first floor is not square footage compliant has no ada8 toilet that's consistent for both schools APR the APR is 1813 plus 306 foot stage over at newbie and at Tatum it's 2100 ft the kitchen is a separate warmup area in newbie and it's inside the warmup area in Tatum cafeteras are non libraries are 754 and 800 reconfiguring you have CMU bearing walls at new and same at uh security vestibules could be done U Tatum has a small vesle and the cost last Bob can you clarify for everyone why um other schools are staying online and and it was specifically sharp I just went through just like the headline would you say just I'm kind of reading between the lines for you here would you say that I feel like we've been told in the meetings part of the reasons why you recommended Tatum newbie and Zayn be kept online is because they are because of when they were built and how they were built they will be because as we've said before none of us here are claiming that all of our facilities that remain are in tip toop shape that would be an insane claim nobody thinks that but the three elementary schools that are remaining online would be more cost effective and are set up to be renovated added onto an elevator put into in an easier way than the way you described for sharpen Garfield is that accurate yes and they have larger spaces as I point okay thank you thank you um two other quick questions I I want to make sure we get through everyone I'm really sorry ask one really quick question if it's a if it's a clarifying question to what's been asked already sure it is a clarifying question so the number of seat increase um at the in The Proposal it says that we're already at a 200 seat deficit in the um current seats in the in you know what I'm um in The Proposal as it was laid out there were literally 80 seats added we're already over by 120 so now we're at a of we're add the deficit of 120 per the proposal that was put out there so I guess why how are you saying that there's an increase if it's only being increased right now so I think that we're we're conflating two two two issues and so when we talk about the addition of the Good Shepherd the good sheeper has a capacity of about 300 students we are also included within this proposal adding six additional classrooms at the Zay North Campus which is already set up for 88 compliance which adds additional um seats okay what's what's in the proposal is what's submitted to the state whether there's there is more space in good sheer but we're not adding classrooms in the so what's being submitted to the state Bob can correct me if I'm wrong is the seats that are needed not the exact all of the seats that's in the so the good Shephard is going to add 300 seats the additions over at Zay North are adding another 126 seats that's a total of 426 seats welcome the next question hi uh Rachel Hennessy newbie parent um I have a question regarding the disparity of the improvements that are not being done on the schools that are remaining open um as much as I want to focus on the future and appreciate that we are investing in our future my kids get rain dong when they're in school and that's like an issue now so kind of to go off of what Matt said is there a list of projects that are already funded where are these list of things that need to get done and are not so there there are a list of projectsin all of our buildings um we list out within their order of what what their needed is so we know we're aware of the the issues over we know that there is there are leaks in a new roof is going to have the next five years um we're aware of the process we also know about the bathroom so the bathroom is also part of adding an in bathroom space talk about the Barfield sale one of the so there's a couple obstacles we start to at that um best the best way to add in a bbie where it doesn't put in classroom space saying figures whereas if you put one down into basement and add extra basement that around that there are there are other facility needs that in long faity and your consider not to do the things that we're proposing right now with the sale of Garfield will come funds that we would want to go towards things like the issues at newb things like a recre recreation center at sharp things like other upgrades that are needed in other facilities and then on top of that in five bethan years six the uh M middle school high school referendum from 2005 Rolls off the books and so tax neutral to everyone else quite a large upgrade can be given to the other facilities that need to be upgr this like long range it has to be long range and not necessarily the Newbie rain issue is there any room for changing on this referendum is it because right now shephard I think that's a great idea this is a really benefit our however like doing massive and then element isn't there any room for some of that money to go towards starting improving some of the schools so it's not just one school for two schools benefiting from everyone is our entire Community that's what we're that's what we're TR to say the money from the sale of sale of Garfield excuse me would go toward well no Garfield has to be sold in order for this plan to work you want us to say yes to a referendum you want us to say yes to a referendum and then hope that you guys are going to do that after and I'm sorry but like I I'm gonna stop you because I know there's lots of people waiting at the end of the day that part is yeah that's down to to trust to a certain extent a lot of the vote for anything that we vote on is up to trust just to confirm there's no changes to the referendum the referendum is as it is and there's not going to be changes right now there's no like hearing your community and adjusting it or is it just saying exactly how it so we're listening to the community we will make changes that might be feasible you can't change it to make upgrades to every building that's true thank you how you doing my name is steuart Campbell I'm a sharp alumni a former contractor and subcontractor I've worked a lot with Engineers on resal and projects I'm trying to find out can't find those how do we get access to fitting proposals the figures that you came up with that this will be this much money to do this the uh Engineers report showing what the problem would be with upgrading any kind of cost analysis that shows this amount is definitely going to cost this much uh how do we see how many people put Deads in how do we know I mean like they said spitting out this stuff like we're dumb and I'm not dumb I do construction and like I'm going to I'm going to ask in the spirit of our of our community agreements like to not Levy personal opinions so let's make sure we get the direct we get the documentation and apology this is I want to recognize just this is a tough space for all of us we all here all feeling int down anybody up here just like all you are speak a lot work a lot of time into this plan we want to make sure that we're answering your questions and I'm going try we'll try to do that one of the things that I think might be a misunderstanding at this point right now is that these are estimates that are architect together we're not at at a B stage yet I'll let I'll on the website and again my apologies if I seem disrespectful to you on the website there are multiple pages of improvement costs for good shepher those costs were not done each of the other elementary schools they are based on I've worked in this district for 20 years and square foot analysis for those other buildings so you're not going to find you're not going to find a fire alarm at6 fo 19,000 build sare footend in our experience and apply that to the square footages for the other building come up with millions of dollars so the projects again you're estimated at this point once the referendum passes the district will have the funds to commission architect and Engineering then we out what it cost right now we're in the schematic design phase because the Board of Education doesn't have and those resources are are on the website okay thank youer new parent um Everybody thanks for all your hard work um I'm gonna ask my question directly to you I think you kind of answered it um so I wanted to know in the um area playground improvements is there still room for negotiation on those are being done Remington and berck engineer District engineer conceptual designs for each of those conceptual designs are generally to give you an idea of what can accomplish department of education allows for final designs to be submitted again after the referendum passes after the engineering done and after we consult principal and the other stakeholders in that school for age appropri equipment areas fencing etc etc longwinded answer yes those proposals will be modified to a more specific level after passes and they would include Community input I just want to is that is that true working within yeah working with good thank I would say sorry good job uh I I would also clarify when we talk about the design choices not just the playground so that everybody understands that there are other Des choices that are still going to go out to the community about no doubt because if we saw something on good Shephard there's quite a lot of Design Elements there that may be able to shift those would be the purple areas that you see in the power some asked have it's concerning to me that we might so I would agree with that that's very concerning I think for all of us um and if we take too much of a beat we're going to lose that opportunity just like what happened in Hadfield um and so to answer your question about I I think Matt has done a great job of recognizing this throughout this process as well we understand closing schools is an emotional thing it's a big deal it's a big change nobody is saying that that is not the case which is why we wanted to make sure that to let folks know that when we are not 60 days before the vote potentially in September right we're trying to give everyone the opportunity to process this entire plan think it through and then decide whether you think it's something you want to support or not the to clarify some of the the suggestions that you made those we have tried to think of as all of the different ways and at the end of the day like I know everyone wants all of the evidence of all of the data part of it has to be on trust that none of us sitting up here are trying to close these schools out of spite or anger or or because we are being lazy about whether this was the right way to do it we tried to figure out how can we save all schools that was not how we started this plan out Bob made it very clear in order for us to gain Good Shepherd which is our ultimate goal here because we feel like without that missed our chance at a a newer building we have to show a certain number of seats are we are in need excuse me of a certain number of seats we cannot use prek seats for that because that's a separate Grant and that's a separate number Al together so anything having to do with the 3K comes from separate grant funding it doesn't come out of our annual budget and those numbers don't count in terms of showing number of seats that we we are in need of the way that we show that we are in need of a certain number of seats has to be decommissioning some school buildings and the recommendation after going through all of the school buildings about which ones to decommission in order to give our students a newer more upgraded space so not necessarily to add 800 or even 200 new seats because right now the doe would say you don't need 200 new seats you don't have the population to Warrant that that's not approved so we can't show we're buying we would have loved to have just bought Good Shepherd right great we have Good Shepherd we're not allowed they will say no it won't be approved so what we're trying to do is figure out a way to get the newest School building in our district on our books and the only way that we can do that is by taking away seats from other school bu that's just our only choice and the recommendation of the two buildings to do that to were the two buildings that renovating them later on down the line for whoever was asking the question which is a great one about what are we going to do about the buildings that need extra updates as well is to he said get you don't use the buildings that can be added on to or can be renovated in a more cost-effective manner so that is why we are keeping Tatum that is why Zane while it has the reputation that it has as it also For Better or For Worse was built at a time where adding on to it is super easy and super cost effective that's the reason we're adding on to Zayn not because it gets the best scores not because it's the most desirable neighborhood it's not any of those things I promise you it's not that it is the space and the makeup of building architecturally only and that's just the the only choice that we had so we could come we we couldn't come to you and say what do you which building you want us to keep and which don't you because first of all I think that would just have ended up in a crazy argument in of itself but also because it is our job as the board and the district to make the most financially responsible decision and if we keep sharpen Garfield because sentimentally we just want to keep our five elementary schools we're not actually servicing our students the best way that we can that's that's kind of my answer so I completely understand that we wish that all of these buildings could stay that we love the character of them that we love the community that has been formed I also believe that our community can come together and create new amazing School communities at K through three schools and at a four through five building I just believe that this community can do that sorry kind of like a clarifying question I just then we're also the Collins would committ and in order to have good shepherd which is I think is been repeated there is no way to have good shepher without the commissioning to that's the state that is not the board that is not Garrison Architects there is no way to have good shepherd without being commissioning to good evening J rosi uhy the Board of Education engineering firm that prepared the schematics uh just want to recognize it it is 8:00 we're going to finish all of the questions that are uh in line for the evening um and also want to let folks know there is another opportunity to engage in questions uh April 16th same time same this um is BG problem in because right now we have on the elementary level we have have total and just want to make sure we clarify your question is it about resource it is about cost coverage for additional cost coverage andion so first I just want to say we when when the numbers about inclusion were given I I hope that we were very clear but just let's be clear again no one up here was saying it is because the teachers are doing a terrible job or was a choice that was being made just just wanted to make sure um and you're absolutely right and I'm glad you asked the question because the road to inclusion isn't cheap and it's not fast so it's important to note that the goal is to ultimately have full inclusion that will not happen overnight as you know and and no one is claiming that it will it's it's the goal of of where we hope to be what we can guarantee right away is that there would be um there would be enough staff to not have to have a self-contained classroom in every school as opposed to having um them have to leave their home school or be separated from a sibling in order to go there you're putting out all this money for you know commission schools and right but that doesn't come from our regular budget that comes from something from this referendum and nobody's disagreeing with you and I don't know if you want to talk specifically about the budget but we're also talking September 2027 and you're right that has to be part of what we bu I'm just putting it out there let me let me provide just really a 30 second just clarification so uh to tera's point um inclusion is a multi-year multiphase u Endeavor and so we have we are currently um um moving in that direction through many Pilots both at the elementary and at the secondary level and so the next step would be uh and and all of these are contingent upon an affirmative response in September uh we would be partnering with the New Jersey Center for inclusive education with a multiple year plan knowing that what we would be planning for with an effective start date as it relates to September of 2027 and then in subsequent years continuing to build so when we talk about daily operations and we talk about annual budget we would have to build internal capacity as we begin shifting to a more inclusive model and so yes an inclusion model is a more costly model but academically speaking it's a better model for all students to invol We believe it would be worth the investment I also jump jump in here just to to clarify right the the kind of the two pieces of inclusion are that we have to have the physical space to will actually have inclusive inclusive classrooms and we also have to have that resources and teachers to it right so the the thing is we can we don't have both that's the problem right so this referendum because it's about facilities about the physical space in order to have uh inclusive classs yes the budgetary Personnel issue is also the other piece but we're talking about Bond reference not hi my name is Peggy J I am a at my question is actually I am very practices are those classes right now are from to two and then to so what's going to happen with that third grade class because practic really should be with those but ifom toids so there can only AAP so the first thing what's going to happen is is that we will be engaging our special Educators as well as our child study team those are conversations and so one of the things that we would have the benefit of is we would have several years to plan effectively to go through all of those core pieces and so we don't have you know at the the onset we talked about hypotheticals and so right now we're talking about hypotheticals without an approval to be able to move forward without a budget without resources and without a start date and so once we have the resources a start date then we can talk with a level of finality but that conversation around moving to inclusion and its heart of hearts cannot and will not be done without teachers being at the table helping us design add can you make sure you're asking a question I want to make sure it gets answered and we're able to sure sure I'm sorry um so as the [Music] present yes um and one of the fol asking what are some things that and um M Jeb actually made me think of this as well uh what are some things that might uh be changed based on community input as well as enrollment one of them is we have been talking about um Good Shepherd being made into a 45 building however there is more space in that school than just for fourth and fifth grade so for instance if teachers in the district at elementary school come together and are like you know what third through fifth grade is developmentally better um what M JB just said about um the special education classes would be better that is a possibility because there are other spaces that we could move the the district offices to Sharp for instance um if we think as a community that the better uh use of space is for third grade students to be in that um so yes we are aware that because we can only do so much in this particular referendum that we want to be able to make sure that newbie has two classes per grade like everybody else and that things may need to look slightly different that so I hope that answered your question well yes we never said that we're not taking Community input we just made it clear that there are certain parts of it that for instance if the entire Community said we will not vote for this if sharp and Garfield are decommissioned then I guess the referendum um because we can't that part can't change some of the the playgrounds the uh specific use of space for good shepher building those things that's what we're we're listening to right now I am a I have two easy questions just is the add from iot building and sure so you're you're acquiring 42,46 feet shepher and you're retiring 16,4 27 so quick math is 27 and you have to add in the Zan propos as well that adds more square footage I right so you have 16,000 with 16,000 42,000 of sheer that's 58,000 fet and you're retiring 164 and 27 so you're picking up 16000 Z nor 300 new seats well not new because we're decommissioning two schools so but when you decommission two schools they become what's called un house students which is what the bo president was talking about we need those in order to get the state funding okay how many unhoused students have we commission 3466 right it's on page four the PowerPoint I'm sorry plus 126 for 426 so we're gaining more seats I'm sorry I think we already made it clear that we're not the point of this program is not gain a lot seats because we're not allowed to do that we're not gaining a bunch more seats we're improving the seats that we already have net gain is 80 seats just want to make sure everybody heard that net gain is 80 seats all right we're gonna keep moving Julie go ahead I have two questions but I have to pick one we'd ask for respect I I know I know this is again a contentious time but let's give each other the respect of making sure we can hear the person asking the question as well as folks giving answers um I'm gonna go with um because but what I guess what I want to say is that posing Haven one of the um and this seems to be fact that you know on the west side of is being closed um I I appreciate that it was said that this is not based on D because that to me um and I would like to hear what what if we did make anded to make a plan that really took would there are also reasons but I think so it is a real but I would like more so I'm going to just clarify to start kind of if Dei were being the deciding factor would would or be making the same decision is that fair and even if this does perfect question what other besides I I'll start with um I don't think we would answer a hypothetical one if this was the calls that we would do it I don't think that would be fair to anyone involved because there wasn't research done primarily on doing something just for one reason um I would say I'm sorry what other Dei initiatives like are being considered besides just she had also asked about the numbers list and I think where it's getting confused is is that what the architect went through was what these buildings have and what these other buildings don't and that's chosen he's not giving an estimate on saying it cost this much to bring sharp up to where newbie is he went through and went through the size of rooms the repairs that were needed whether it was Ada or not and said this is the difference and this is why it's chosen now Bob sorry you can speak for yourself that's why we established the 12 different points of of grading that I went um sorry let me I jumped up here I'm Roger on the board uh so just I'm not some kind of guy just running up here sorry about that um I would have moderated you out of the space uh so that the question about the dip I I want to refocus a few things one is that at the at the core right this referendum is about addressing the fact that we have really old buildings that also have small spaces that we have we have to deal with these are really old buildings that we have to find a solution now then after we've looked at hey we have a plan to address those buildings how do we address de here right within this plan I I I want to kind of point back to uh what Bruce said earlier which is uh the quote from the American Federation teach talking about how uh integration is one of the most important system when we look at our elementary schools like we have a school that's 80 90% white and we have a school that's 60% non there are very real differences in the racial and ethnic makeup of our elementary schools so when we talk about Dei right one of the things I think about is my experience growing up in Memphis Tennessee Memphis City Schools primarily black and brown whereas you look at the suburbs around primarily white in an effort to to get resources spread more evenly within Shelby County the Memphis city school system dissolved try to force the Shelby County School System help resources not even with integration because they say well you're in your own neighborhood you're in White Haven in Memphis you're not in German Town in Shelby County so why would we buy those schools at all your mil apart here in kwood we have elementary schools that are that have differental ethnic percentages that are a mile apart where we can truly integrate our schools and so at least for me my question has always been personally is integration worth are coming together to figure out a mild difference or is is a mild too much for us as a community to figure out for integration that's my my question at least when I think about well we're we're gonna we're going to keep moving I appreciate that this is an intense issue and would ask for folks to kind of lean into making sure we're we're we're giving folks who I'm going to move on we're keep we're keeping course and we're following there is we would never put Garfield or something potential on the market without the referend so there's really no conversation that can take pass with that unless we know we have somewhere to uh put kids and Zoning requirements with the burrow and the Planning and Zoning Board will uh lean more into what could be in that space and that would have nothing to do with anyone intive say you want toest serve Curr isn't an entire of town worth the investment and the St because what you're saying your goal is and what you're proposing in this referend are two completely different things why not choose to a smaller school and actually invest in Shar in order to best serve the entire community and have integration there just throwing this out there as an example I just want to make sure we're getting to your to your question make sure it's um sure yeah why not choose to invest or close a smaller school and actually invest in sharp and integrate there I just like to make a quick point about that is right now there are more kids crossing Route 30 to get the sharp than who are on the other side of thir and some thoughts that go through it is everybody's trying to figure out it's the best decision is that if for example if we were to close newbie and we had to do this rearranging then the number would double close to double to who would have to travel to Sharp so we're trying to not just think about sharp kids it's a decision that everyone's trying to think about all kids and I get the town and the Community Pride in it but it's the responsibility of anybody who decides to take on this work to not separate community ities or schools or kids it's about all of our kids whether they're newbie Tatum Zayn sharp just say just say a town has three fire stations two on one side one on the other just to clarify if you have to close one are you going to close the one on the far side of town if two close together is that best serving the community can you please ask a clar clarifying question Serv the community because we're not talking about fire station talking about school talking about a commun and access to to cl to clarify that there's the the idea is is as as if we're saying hey we have five elementary schools and we have chosen two to CL that's not what has happened we have five elementary schools right there's been an assessment about the state of those elementary schools and and what would would be the most cost effective and feasible way for us to prepare for the future the sharp and barford were the two schools that were identified as practically speaking the most practical terms of closing because of condition what uh five went through uh and the cost of of renovating or supporting them the future right so it's not just a cacious choice of which how can you you're worried when asking tens of millions of dollars 85% I'm sorry you you've had an opportunity to to ask questions I also want to clarify that um our next uh person is the last question I made an announcement letting folks know that we would um be wrapping up after that given that it is 8:24 I'm gonna hold us to that uh tonight hi my name is Liz Young I'm a parent I have a quick clarifying question before my real question just because we keep throwing away throwing around this term um seats and I'm just curious what that actually means is it purely just square footage in a classroom or does it account for all of these space we need outside of the classroom for resource teachers and things like that the state of New Jersey tells us the definition of of seat so it's square foot okay um so my real question is I know it was stated earlier that we can't possibly project what our budget needs are in the future because we don't know what our student body is going to be in three years which I can understand but at the same time we can project if we were to assume it was based on our current student capacity right now and we're talking about adding all of these great facilities and adding a librar in and having a fully staffed kitchen and things like that but we are currently in a budget crisis in our school district so what does 2027 look like and can we actually support all of these new great things that we're adding to our district so that Liz that's a that's a great question and so I'm G to try to be as as definitive and direct as I can be and so when we're talking about um Construction Construction is the system system or the structures that we need in order for students to be able to build in one of the things that we've talked about and we have have been pretty clear in asking the community for their assistance is the current state of the fiscal environment for public education in New Jersey current year the funding formula that expires as of June uh this particular year is fundamentally flawed in Collingswood and Oakland there is a structural deficit based on the current funding formula what that structural deficit means is that there is a significant gap between the funds that are available in terms of local fair share what we as a school district have the ability to ask and actual need of students the annual cost continues to increase and so there is a a hole that we're not able to currently fill with the current funding formula that expires therefore in terms of for future funding we are asking an all handson deck approach to Advocate with Trenton for the flexibility and the opportunity for local school communities to decide their own fiscal fate and to fund their El their their educational programs and so the reason why we're asking for folks now is because they're in the process of discussing and designing a new funding formula for future years and we need to have public voice and strength of advocacy involved in those conversations so that by 2020 7 we're not looking at fiscal challenges in terms of daily operational expenses so to clarify we are banking on that problem being fixed I mean we're not gaining any more students with this plan so the the funding for the buildings is the same funding that we would have now in a lot of ways right like the the money travels with the students so we would be moving students from other buildings and we are not adding any more staff that we would need to hire I mean that's a decision that we cannot answer that's a question we can't answer until 2027 we are not red we would not be planning to reduce any of the staff that we already have and so those just like the students would travel to the different buildings based on so teachers so so where right now we have one art teacher that Services all of the elementary schools we can't necessarily plan on having a new art teacher to utilize new art spaces being touted in good shepher well no because they would still be servicing K five okay in the district yes so we can't make those kinds of promises that's correct thank you all right everyone um thank you all again for spending um a copious amount of your evening with us um as you are um getting it up and departing I want to remind folks that there is another Q&A session April 16th 6:30 again here um and if anyone uh you know is interested in listening to today's session it was recorded it will be posted um and thank you again