if a matter is continued due to a lack of Quorum the chairperson or SEC the chairperson or Secretary of the board May set a special meeting to consider such matter in the event that four votes are not obtained an applicant except in the case of a comprehensive plan Amendment May request a continuance or allow the application to proceed to the city commission without a recommendation pursuant to resolution number 202-1184 Gables has returned to traditional inperson meetings however the Planning and Zoning Board has established the ability for the public to provide comments virtually for those members of the public who are appearing on zoom and wish to testify you must be visible the court report would be sworn in otherwise if you speak without being sworn in your comments may not have evidentiary value lobbyist registration and disclosure any person who acts as a lobbyist must register with the city clerk as required pursuant to the city code as chair I now officially call the City of Coral Gables planning and zoning board meeting of May 8th 2024 to order the time is 601 Jill if you please call the role Robert bear here Julio Gabrielle he requested to be excused yes he's sick I think please zuk valinski here Felix Paro here Jael Salman here chip Withers y abis in here notice regarding expar Communications please be advised that this board is a quasi judicial board which requires board members to disclose all expar Communications and site visits an expar communication is defined as any contact communication conversation correspondence memorandum or other written or verbal communication that takes place outside a public hearing between a member of the public and a member of the quazi judicial board regarding matters to be heard by the board if anyone made any contact with the board member regarding an issue before the board the board member must State on the record the existence of any exart communication and the party who originated the communication also if the board member conducted a site visit specifically related to the case before the board the board me member must also disclose such visit in either case the board member must State on the record whether the expart communication and or site visit will affect the board member's ability to impartially consider the evidence to be presented regarding the matter the board member should also state for his or her decision will will not be based on sub will will be based on substantial competent evidence and testimony presented on the record today um Mr City attorney Mr attorney we don't have any quasi judicial items on today's agenda we do we do not have any qu judicial so I'm not going to ask anybody if they've had because the first two items corre are deferred so it's only the ordinance and uh a little workshop we're having afterwards okay uh swearing in everyone who speaks this evening must complete the roster on the podium we ask that you print clearly so the official records of your name and address will be correct now with the exception of attorneys all persons physically in the city commission Chambers who will speak on agenda items before us this evening please rise to be sworn in thank you Jennifer Zoom platform participants I will ask any person wishing to speak on tonight's agenda item to please open your chat and send a direct message to Jill Menendez stating you would like to speak before the board and include your full name Jill will call you when it's your turn I ask you to be concise for the interest of Time phone platform participants after Zoom platform participants are done I will ask phone participants to comment on tonight's agenda item I also ask you to be concise for the interest of time we have the approval of the minutes of April 10 2024 is there a motion motion to approve second we have a second any discussion uh just for point of clarification on page 177 I think Mr ker uh stated as far as it being a straw hat I think you meant straw man refence ref to my remarks I since my memory is usually about two weeks long and this was more than two weeks I have to say I don't recall the conversation I just wanted to clarify it but that's okay I I okay any other comments no call the roll please zinski uh yes Felix Paro yes Javier Salman yes chip Withers yes Robert bayar yes abs and staff yes the procedure we'll use tonight is first we'll have the identification of agenda item by Mr caller then we'll have the presentation by applicant or agent then the presentation by staff uh we'll go ahead and open the public comment first in Chambers then Zoom platform and then any phone line platform if any Clos public comment board discussion and a motion followed by discussion and second a motion if appropriate board's final comments and then a vote the first item which would be the uh bear with me which would be the uh E1 and E2 has been deferred so if there's anybody here for that item I just want to let them know that that has been deferred um also what I'd like to go ahead and do is I like to move the agenda for f F1 to go first and then which is a discussion item and we have a presentation on that and then we'll go ahead and take on item E3 if anybody on the board has an objection to that please let me know no thank you uh Mr CER would you read uh I guess do we need to read F1 into the record we really don't because it's not a title to an item um so it's not really necessary read it thank you Jennifer pretty short though I'd be happy to read it if you'd like um actually why don't you read it just so we have it on the record sure F1 presentation discussion of enhanced Mediterranean Design requirements thank you Jif Garcia planing official so I have a quick PowerPoint this was included in your uh packet for today this the one including your packet don't worry was much longer Jennifer if I may and I do apologize before you start yes um we all got a letter from Holland and night regarding the uh first agenda item that was deferred which is E1 and E2 I just want to make sure it's entered into the record yes thank you continue please okay so um staff has been working um with residents and with oh good just in time um and uh members of the commission on ways to improve the Mediterranean bonus there's been some complaints about some buildings receiving being granted Med bonus that may not meet the eye of your average person as being Mediterranean style so the intent of this is really to um strengthen those uh those criteria in our zoning code to um hopefully come up with a better result so this a little bit of history for those who are not familiar just for it's in public so that they're more familiar uh the meteran bonus or ordinance was adopted back in the mid 80s it's been amended several times some of those amendments were more significant than others it was most recently amended a couple years ago actually um to require Med tranan style only instead of the other Styles um as well as provide an optional conceptual review and part of that came from a committee the blue Rin committee um that several members of I think of the board here um participate in that and the accomplishments and and a lot of the discussion that happened the committee were already incorporated into the med bonus or into the zoning code um the conceptual design by the board of Architects the Mediterranean style only being a requirement um but allot of that discussion also included the emphasis on the ground floor the ground level and how to improve that experience as a pedestrian how to improve that experience along the ground level um and you know make that more of the requirement of the med bonus so in summary Um this can summarized in Five Points um the first part of this of the proposed changes um in strengthening intent and purpose of the med bonus as well as requiring that um conceptual review for any Mediterranean bonus application that's you can find that in the strike through an underline you have your packet on page two um also removing uh repetitive criteria so in the um zoning Cote update there were several criteria that were found to be really effective to make um Street facing buildings and those were copied and pasted into the underlying zoning so right now they're already required part of the underlying zoning so those are being removed because right now they're just repetitive um as well as uh relocating certain criteria to the more appropriate parts of the zoning code that would include um Port koshares uh driveway on certain streets so that's being relocated from the zoning from sorry from the med bonus into the more appropriate parts of the zoning code that deal with those types of Provisions um and then lastly not lastly fourth to incorporate Provisions from our Med trinian Village pad architectural standards that made the plaza um those standards are found in appendix C of our zoning code they have a lot to do with I more detail of that but a lot to do with proportions and massing and then lastly expand the precedents or example buildings that Architects can use um as they're developing their their Mediterranean style buildings so we went with the board of Architects a few times and they um wholeheartly desired to have a higher quality mediteran design and they propos to have these uh improvements to certain criteria to to affect to have a better effective review of their design because the med bonus is granted by the board of Architects it's not granted by this board it's not granted by the city commission but the board of Architects so it's really important that the board of Architects understands the criteria and and they can see what's more effective in their review so again improving the criteria in their review is going to give them teeth and improve their um review for a higher quality of design so we are kind of towards the end of our discussion and feedback again we've been meeting with Board of Architects since uh last October um City commission a couple of times for just their feedback in general update um you have a packet from last time the introduction um also these pretty much the same changes that you have today um and here we are kind of at the tail end of that discussion and feedback today's meeting is not about get a recommendation but to get your feedback to incorporate into um this evolving document to come back for your recommendation for the adoption process so just um recap with the current standard that we have in our code right now so Med bonus grants height as you know so there's um in our chart of our zoning code we have as of right which is highlight in green and there's two levels of bonus there's level one and level two level one usually grants one story I think always grants one story um not depending on the uh zoning uh or the land use but um level two grants one additional story about that or two stories if you're a higher intensity or density and for the F you also get a0 2 for level one Med bonus and then additional 3 for total of5 f for um the multif family and as well for the Mixed use districts so this is table one table one is satisfying all this current requirements okay table one you're required to uh comply with all of the requirements and that will give you again one story or Point 2 F table two is more of the all a cart so if you are multifam zoning you have to fulfill six of 12 requirements and if you're mixed use you fulfill eight of the 12 qualifications the standards um and that will give you additional one story additional two stories or three depending on the intensity density as well as 3 F and then table three right now is is different options that um if you're me level one or and level two you can um pick and choose these optional developments So currently we have eight example buildings or or precedents um that includes the the builtmore includes the entrance uh Elementary School um I'm sure you're very familiar with all these buildings so in summary I I think went all the summary this is Five Points again to strengthen the intent and the purpose and the review process as well as removing those repetitive criteria uh relocating the criteria that's should be more appropriate parts of our zoning code incorporating a lot of the provisions from the appendix C which is the Mediterranean Village uh had architectural standards and then expanding the list of precedents or example buildings and then just to illustrate what this means so um during the zoning Cod update a lot of those Provisions again like I said were moved from from the med bonus not moved copied from the med bonus because they were very good um standards that and that dealt with a public realm and how building approaches the streets and they're put into the under underlying zoning and then and then looking through the criteria we have now in our zoning code there are some things like Port coare other things that should be located in different parts of the code and then this is some pages from the Mediterranean Village uh form based code that developed the plaza um even though the plaza is a very different form and masing the architecture is is has been claimed as very very good so we're taking some of those classical proportion massing um vertical hierarchy um penetration or or rhythm of of columns and putting those ideas those tradition architecture ideas R the thumb into this new criteria so tonight we're going to discuss all of the sections um so we're going to go through the the precedent first that's more of a visual uh preference um sorry more visual um presentation and then we'll go through the prerequisites table and then bonus level one level two So currently we have eight buildings right now we're proposing that the San Sebastian Apartments be removed I guess there were some concerns at the architecture being used as a precedent the architecture wasn't as high quality as the other examples and then replacing that with I think 11 or 10 other examples so we're showing uh Freedom Tower you're familiar with that and downtown um Miami um all these are are buildings that were that were designed by our founding Architects you recognize names like schulten Weaver uh Fink um phus paste so we're showing uh Freedom Tower lapalma we're very familiar with lanat here in cor Gables Miami Senior High Miami Beach City Hall the US Post and courthouse in downtown um and The Breakers Hotel up in Palm Beach and there's also some local examples that were not done by our more familiar founding Architects as well there's the three story building on Pon that's at 2312 Pon Leon there's also Comber Hall which is part of part of the church a little flower the original um 1920 structure and also the hotel um PL SEL which is also the zuka uh restaurant and there's also some present we're proposing that are outside of of our local South Florida which includes Santa Barbara City Hall and the Vanetta hotel in Palm Beach so we can go through these if you look at the strike through and underline the starts on page this precedents sorry prerequisites and it starts on page five of your um Shri through an underlying document that you have um so the first one is is again already repetitive it's was moved to article two during the zoning code update the same with the second one which is about architectural relief elements and being replaced with language about precedence about how to use elements and masking using uh precedence as example um let's see architecture elements is also being um removed because it's already I'm sorry this one's being moved to the end of the med bonus as um you can not count some of the um elements of a building beyond the maximum height so that's right now is already allowed we're just moving it out of the med bones it's not really a criteria it's more of a allowed to do if you're a med bonus sorry if you're a met training building and replacing that with uh building proportions again which is drafted from the med the Mediterranean Village pad do um we're also removing bicycle storage because that's already in our zoning code and replacing it with emphasis of architectural Elements which again was drafted from the Mediterranean Village pad um we're removing uh building facades which is also already located in Article 2 resoning code and replacing with backup house and utilities um I'm not going to go through every single one of these but you can see that if you can follow along you can see that what the comments are the current requirements the comments and the proposed I know there's people that need to leave um so basically what this means is that an architect would have to follow the prerequisites compliance they would have to I just went through and also the architectural precedence and that allows them to enter in to allows them to qualify for a med bonus this first table that I just went through is not giving a bonus for meeting these now 12 uh requirements they're just prerequisite to be able to apply for Med bonus so that's shown here in the gray and the additional two Flor I'll get to a second so the propos level one um a lot of them are staying they're just adding different language um again mostly from the Mediterranean Village pad um some other elements that the board of Architects felt like they need to have U more teeth in as far as um ground FL design uh rear rear access sustainability open space that's being uh replacing for some of the requirements that are here that are already in our zoning code and then once they fulfill what they need to fill again six of the 12 for multif family and eight of the 12 for mixed use then they're allowed to finally get one level of met bonus so again that's one extra floor and point to F so then level sorry level two which is used to be the optional Table Three um now has four requirements to meet um building lot coverage uh resources for the Mediterranean style which I think is an idea that the board had um and design uh Design Elements um and also zoning District requirements so once they fulfill again start from the bottom the prerequisites the first table I showed the architectural precedence those buildings that I showed as well they meet level one as far as six of the 12 or 8 of the 12 the checklist and then they meet the these four then they can meet the highest uh level two bonus I that's it so I have um Judy cardi here the boa chair I also have Ralph I think needs to leave pretty soon um so I don't if you want to open discussion or if you want to have any questions particularly for for Judy or if he want some comments or well if the board is okay I'd like to hear from the people that are here from Judy and so forth their comments please come up Judy have you well we don't need to swear in so so we um thank you you just your name sure Judy Cy um 920 Medina Avenue um so the board went through this in pretty extensive detail and I think we got 100% support for what is being presented at this time so we're pretty comfortable with it um we went back and forth on the examples um and I don't know how you all feel about those but we felt it was okay to include examples that were outside of Coral Gables so I think there is some good Mediterranean architecture that's outside of this area so there was some discussion on that you know whether it should really be kept or not but I think it's valuable and that was the consensus at the end of the day so I don't know if you have any questions on anything or concerns I mean Robert's very familiar with all of these requirements I don't know if you saw anything in there that you were no I think I think you're right and I think it was a good idea to bring other examples not just limited because you know we're in the in the city we're limited to just a few buildings exactly and this opens up to a little bit more so I'm I'm I think that was a very good idea yeah I think it I think it'll help I mean I from us reviewing it you know everybody used the same buildings with the same you know um especially when you do a mixed use project exactly you really need a little bit more diversity I think this does I I I thought because I I think there was a previous a while back there was even a couple more examples there were and we paired it down so I mean I I don't know that anybody would be opposed to increasing it if there are addition um suggestions because there was a bank National Bank of Boston in Argentina in beris that was the example that I thought that would could been a really good example to have as well yeah I mean we didn't go outside of the country but that would be the next you know yeah I think we discussed yeah I think we discussed limiting it to these um particular ones and then maybe having a greater list within the um the best practice manual that's not really identified in the code itself but good thing is you have these but you could also bring some of the example to the board and they will be valuated based on on on you know yeah but I thought it was very good I think that the staff has done a great job and the staff has done a great job I mean we we just reviewed it so I'm curious did you I don't see Vaya in there I think that's a beautiful Mediterranean that's an interesting one it's true I've been to the Santa Barbara uh City Hall and it's fabulous yeah uh it's a little more Baroque in its concept and uh a little more arts and crafts in its detail but it is generally on point with regards to style but yeah visaya is a good one I I you know that never it's one of those obvious on yeah one of those obvious that we ever looked so I thought maybe there was some reason but no no okay that's make two sense um can I can I ask one question the so the conceptual review is now mandatory is that what the deal is as proposed yes right now it's optional um I I think JY can expound on the success of that really so in the process I think it's mandatory what sorry is it it mandatory the way it's proposed right now want to make it mandatory now yes yes not mandatory it mandatory before no no It's a Brand New Concept no pun intended I thought it was that came out of the uh out of the um the Blue Ribbon committee right so so if if someone can someone be denied a bonus if they meet the criteria can they be denied a bonus if they if you're supposed to say okay you got like don't use bike racks because I know you move them into the out of the okay well they're currently in our Cod way you have to paint the windows pink and you get this and the people say we're painting the windows pink to beat this criteria can you deny them the bonus well I I would respond saying I don't think the criteria is as specific as paint the building okay that's a bad no no no because no but it's important right because like previously theer bicycle racks was a very definitive criteria right but there's a a a series of criteria that is um a a design review criteria so okay um so you wouldn't definitively be able to say well hey I I matched it unless you copied a building exactly then you know you might be able to say Hey you had the builtmore in here I'm doing an exact replica of The Bu builtmore but then that wouldn't be allowed because in the zoning code it has to be an original let's say they do an exact replica of the builtmore one of the examples of the builtmore and they do an archway exactly how they're supposed to do it can they be denied a Mediterranean bonus well they could because you have to do an original building in the city of corl Gables it's a different zoning criteria I'm sorry you have to do what you have to do an original building can't copy you cannot exactly copy yeah when you apply you have to sign affidavit saying so I think yes you could be denied the short the short answer to you is yes I think you could be denied so so the board of archit and in at the that original review is that when that subjectivity because that's what it is to me I don't know if you would call it subjectivity is that when that subjectivity takes place and so the reason I asked that let me finish your question so when it gets to us eventually to approve Mediterranean bonus we might not ever see it because the architecture board feels that it hasn't met their subjectivity test is that a fair statement that's true yeah but that happens now I I get it I get but it would still happen chip can I ask something P so then doesn't it become arbitrary meaning no because I think good design is is something that you need to be trained for everybody says you know oh you're it's so subjective and arbitr arbitrary I do not think that design is either subjective or arbitrary because you can have a very diverse group of Architects and at the end of the day proportion and massing and appropriateness all of those are sort of fundamental core architectural tenants that I think either work or don't so I assume on the architectural plans to meet the bonus you have to give examples and on those examples I assume within the plan you put up if you got to meet six examples you put up the six examples that you are meeting to qualify for a Mediterranean bonus so if the architect on the project follows those steps and then the board of Architects says we don't agree with you So the plan is it's arbitrary no but remember so but we're mixing conceptual review with specific building precedence right because the precedents are are a a a highlevel sort of imag re precedent of scale and details and things like that nobody's going to take those buildings exactly or copy exactly any of the details but they're going to give examples they give examples for the general direction that they were intending and let me tell you people give examples like you know if the example is white they'll come in with a building that's black and they'll say oh we use this is an example it's a total please understand I'm not I'm not coming in from an architect perspective I'm coming in from a Layman's perspective I understand that would be looking at or another board that would be looking at if it's Mediterranean you know I for me I've always felt the buck stops with the board of Architects it's really up to the board of Architects and professionals the right people to determine if a project qualifies for the Mediterranean bonus once it comes comes to the Planning and Zoning Board there's other criteria that has to be met and so forth to get that bonus but for me when a project comes in here with a with Mediterranean bonus request I'm taking into consideration that it has already gone through the board of Architects and the board of Architects has gone ahead and said yes you meet it those are the professionals yeah just to clarify the board of aret say who's granting the bonus it's not not this board it's not the commission correct I I understand that and and please I'm not trying to take anything away we have some great Architects on this board I really mean that um but I do feel that it is the board of Architects decision to grant that my only concern is in a way I feel if I feel if an architect goes ahead and gives the examples to what he's applying on the plan so he lists six examples that he details on the plan and then the board of Architects says no you don't meet it to me that kind of becomes arbitrary let me let me take it a step further let's say you approve it and it comes to our board do we have the ability to not approve it I don't know that I no we don't we don't look at architecture no no but but the but the award because I think and listen I I I I think it's phenomenal that you're putting the um um the CR criteria of Aesthetics into this ordinance whereas before it was more just elements of Mediterranean architecture that you could get bonuses for I see that's one of the big shifts and maybe I'm misreading it I think that's true there's more there's more there's there's more thought into the Aesthetics as opposed to just the criteria which I salute you guys for that because we have buildings that have Mediterranean ordinance have Mediterranean bonuses based on elements of Mediterranean architecture without the Aesthetics of the Mediterranean architecture the Blue Ribbon committee was I think strong on was doing just that okay and and that makes me very happy because I really think that's for so many years has been the hit on this is this ordinance okay so saying that if the architect Board of Architects which are all trained individuals they they say the criteria aesthetically matches or meets a building some in the world and they're happy with it and it comes to us to actually put the stamp on it can we then say no we don't approve the Mediterranean no you it's on your so why is it coming to us after that because part it's part of the process so usually these buildings require a conditional use process and that starts at the board of the DC Board of Architects preliminary approval which a part of that is the med bonus because no one is going to develop a building without getting the med bonus and maximizing their develop Vel potential it comes to you guys as a conditional use request it goes to them as a design request once it's granted that and they get ponary ponary approval and they come to you guys with different criteria in our zoning code so does CH me so does that mean that if they come to us and they request hypothetically two additional floors because of the Mediterranean bonus let's say as a right they can build x amount of feet let's just call it as an example 60 ft mhm and they now get two additional floors because they've met their bonus so just out of an example they can now go to 80 feet I've seen discussion on this board where the board the Planning and Zoning Board has not agreed to give the additional floor height or the additional floor or density but from what I'm listening to you say the way you're the way I'm interpreting is we don't have the right to look at the Mediterranean bonus then if that's the case and they would be entitled to those additional two stories am I think I'm trying to think outside the box yeah I mean they've that that's my that's my point you're making a great Point Mr chairman yes this because it is a conditional use there's a consideration of compatibility so there's other criteria that relate to a building besides merely the design so and it's the impact on the building to the environment and you look at for example maybe a street is constrained and it's not wide enough and people already can't get out of the street and they're testifying as to what their current experiences are that's something that the board can consider in the in looking at for example the uh traffic impacts but that's not a Mediterranean element exactly Street traffic but what you the question was do they get it as a matter of right because they've already met the um the criteria as determined by the board of Architects and I said because it's a conditional use there's other criteria that this board judges a um a project on okay and it's not solely the the design so so so how is that defensible if I'm using a concurrency issue like traffic to deny well I think it's defensible if you have testimony that first of all traffic is always very difficult because case law says that that the for somebody to say well this is a big impact and there's going to be a lot of traffic well that's probably not going to be sufficient enough but but if first of all if you have a competing um traffic analysis that one traffic expert says it's going to be X Generation another traffic expert says it's going to be y generation then that's substantial competent evidence in addition besides that case that I had not with the with the city but the the people were it it dealt with um I think a child care that they were expanding and putting it on a private Street and the testimony from the residents were that I can't get out of my house now I'm so their their observations aren't uh well this is going to cause a lot of traffic they're arguing well this is the situation I have now because I observe this this is an observation it's subject to lay testimony so so one last question well I have more but I one so right now the board of Architects is appointed by the city manager yes 100% right yes and then one has Point except the except the so so I mean I'm just thinking if you roll it back a couple of levels that gives an incredible amount this ordinance allowing Architects to do what and I I'm not saying I'm against it I'm just pointing out some of the some of the notes I had made it gives a city manager an incredible amount of power to appoint the direction of the city as as far as development goes I think because he or she is appointing individuals on that board they're going to be making decisions about the landscape and the future look of the city right but all those appointments go to the city commiss that discussed I'm wondering right right no no so all those appointments go to the city commission for their final approval well I understand but but I understand what you're saying but I will tell you that prior to the Blue Ribbon committee there was prior to the Blue Ribbon committee there was a lot more flexib ability in awarding um Med bonus okay okay and after that committee and the the latest change that happened in 2022 where it was very specifically the Mediterranean bonus had to be Coral Gables Mediterranean in appearance things have have changed and and we do not approve unless that happens so it is the code okay right that is ruling not really us as Architects um and I can say that definitively because I saw things change after that so but but back to the conceptual review though to a point that was being made here the conceptual review is great because I think one of the complaints is that a project has to be so cooked when it comes to us that it's very expensive to make changes and and really unfair to developers right and so so it I think it's great that that's been a very helpful addition to the process to get us on the right track however I don't know if conceptual reviews are noticed to the public so for instance anybody who has a comment on putting an entry you know on the left side of the building or the right side of the building because of the environment that we as the board of Architects may or may not know is not something feedback that we would get in that meeting right the public comes and talks to us if they have an issue with designs but because the conceptual design is not noticed to the public sometimes it Cooks itself more through us than we would maybe want until we heard from you know people who live on that street as an example you know we have an item on the agenda coming up regarding hang tags basically no notification isn't part of that U resolution being brought up by the commissioner that the the residents have to be noticed upon conceptu conceptual review no so that's for conversation so she's thinking about doing mail notice for whenever um the board of archus is considering to do um I'm sorry whenever there's a met bonus request to consider mailing notice within a certain amount of feet of a property because since the metab bonus is being granted by the board of Architects significant height and significant square footage that since that decision is being made determined by them that they that the community should receive maale notice but not for the conceptual design conceptual design there's no termination made they're just getting feedback from the board at that point and maybe I misread that the the res the proposed resolution I thought it was at the conceptual design process the neighborhood has to be notified no no no well maybe that's something we should consider when this comes up yeah yeah I think that is a consideration that should be considered by you all and Judy when you when you approve a a med bonus you consider the compatibility of the neighborhood correct we do we we do and we have more more so but but I think that the compatibility of the neighborhood is something that comes then to you all right as the next step I thought the Blue Ribbon uh I thought the Blue Ribbon committee brought that up uh when you meeting I'm with holding a lot of comments oh okay all right so I'll we need everybody to speak in the mic I'll def he doesn't have a mic I have no mic that's terrible but one question I I I have we're going to fix that how bicycle storage get to be a criteria I think we took that out right or did we yeah we took it out totally that's one of these one of these modifications I never understood that either but okay you know like thank you Felix does this work no to we could we we could Craig we could just share thank you I've been talking to this and it's have that on so um to answer Chip's question um specifically uh the charge of the board of Architects is exactly what the charge of the board of Architects is which is the the style the proportions the the uh the quality of the design thank you is it on yeah so the uh relief to any party is not the planning board the relief to any party of any decision of the board of Architects is the city commission they could appeal straight to the city commission the any response any awarding of bonuses any approval any denial is approved is directly appealed to the city commission always has been are you referring to the med bonus or board aritex appeals no what I'm saying is the the style of the architecture the awarding of the bonuses as part is based on the style of the architecture yes in other words all of that is appealable to the commission well after the master special Master process I'm sorry after the special Master process right cuz well appeal Bo you go to special Master the buck stops at the commission right right so there there is a special Master now which didn't exist before but the whole point is that the charge of the board of Architects is exactly that as far as the uh selection of The Architects that sit on the board and and Judy do you do a wonderful job and I've told you that before thank you and the key is that those those qualified Architects back in the day were recommended by the city architect and the city architect came up with a list and actually took it to the Planning and Zoning director back then and then every once in a while they would go to the city manager back then it was Jack eids and then they would they would say you know this is the person they meet the qualifications and then there was a a process so just to be clear um at a certain point it then became under the control of the city manager and then all those people then would be recommended by the city manager and obviously at the end again the buck stops with the commission they would be approved by the commission I just wanted to clarify the process so there's no misunderstanding because this is the planning board this is not the board of Architects so the board of architect has a lot of power and also people have said well the board of Architects is only Architects that's exactly right in other places say Miami Beach they have a design review board that has a lawyer it has a landscape architect whatever I I think that that our process is much more pure when it comes to analyzing architecture because with all due respect to the landscape architect or the lawyer Etc they're not Architects so I just wanted to put that on on the record for now and I do have comments but I I'm not I just wanted ask you a question if I may my understanding is when a big project comes into play It's the full panel of the board of Architects that reviews it it's not sub panels and so forth which then adds to what you're saying and and Mr chairman that that was that that always existed okay the first time I sat on the board of Architects must have been around 198 two or something and at that time we would have what was called the full board and it was the entire board yeah it's entire and the architect the city architect was was included to observe and listen but he would not vote on those particular projects so then a project gets approved on a majority basis of the full panel on a majority basis there's a motion a second and then the vote has to be majority that's correct and then the qu qualifications of the of the Architects they have to have a certain amount of experience of years of experience it's 10 years registered architect with their office or home in the City of Coral Gables exactly so you want to be IM not many people and we have to beg everybody because we give up a huge amount of time of course but I think there was also discussion about bringing in people that were not necessarily residents or had their business with them I think that's a horrible idea that that is one of the worst agreed and the reason I just want to go on that but but there was discussion on that right yes there's always been discussion about that and I just didn't know if that got implemented and no it did not get implemented but I I would like to let you know that the reason that it's either the residents or your practice is because if you have your practice here you're you're touched by Coral Gables if if you have your home here you're touched by Coral Gables you you understand you're you're you're there if you if you live in any other part of day County let's say Miami Beach it it's not the same and that's why it's been clear and consistent as far the as the qualifications for the architect but let me look at it from Another Side you just showed me eight pictures or 10 pictures of properties that are that the board of Architects feel is Mediterranean which are great examples and some of those are very good Architects but those Architects aren't from the city City of Coral Gables so I guess what you're see what you're saying is somebody like that would add no value to the aspect of the design and the quality of life within the city but but remember 90% And I may be going on a% of what we do is not big buildings right it's neighborhoods it's houses it's additions it's new and to me even the the houses I agree I'm need to walk the neighborhood with your dog or you know for really to understand the scale of what is valuable to us as residents um so I mean to for me to make it outside would be a really big mistake I mean just asking the question yeah I would almost even make it that you had to live there and I mean right now you know a majority of us live in the North Gables right and that's kind of the core sorry sorry so we had a a person I wanted to speak um so the I what I what I like to do is then uh Judy if you don't mind we'll call up the next uh individual since we're on a time constraint with him I agree with everything Judy said can before you say that can you sayate your name and address for the record please RAF Pondo Port P Architects um so before starting there's a couple of people that I want to thank and congratulate Felix done a great job delil of Victoria which is is no longer with us has been a big part of this whole you know restructuring of the code in Mediterranean bonus and I've been working with with Ronda I think she's done a fabulous job in terms of putting this forward a couple of things that I think are critical uh which which is why I think that context historical precedent historical details proportion analysis proportion drawings not all not all Architects were plastically trained so the reason why you see all these beautiful buildings in the 1920s and 30s is the majority of those Architects went to Bozart schools and they were taught classical architecture one of the biggest problems that I see which is why this is work a great solution to that is that I for the longest time felt that the developer was designing the buildings and The Architects had to figure out how to get the developers projects approved by doing this the architect is responsible to tell the developer if you want to get the project approved we got to do these things it's also going to force the architect when when you look at proportion drawings you're looking at proportioning a cornice proportioning a balcony if the and the it's a it's a huge tool for the board of Architects because what's going to happen is and you see this all the time you see a 10-ft balcony with a 12-in bracket right and that is a dead giveaway because if if they're showing a historic balcony like the builtmore and their job as Architects is to prove to the board of Architects that what they're saying is true and if they can't make the argument they're not going to get approved and so what's what's happening is that it's going to force the Architects to step up their game in order to do a classical building and classical buildings means a lot of different things like and this is going to sound odd but there's Art Deco buildings in Coral Gables there's Venetian buildings in Coral Gables there are Japanese buildings in Coral Gables and so classicism has a has a lot of there's neoclassical buildings we did a building on Sunset for the bardis where fiolas is and the owner wanted something more Parisian right so we had to go through all the Mediterranean bonuses and all those types of things but I think that the most important thing that you can get out of this is that a lot of people have spent a lot of time and I've been in in the audience where Judy is looking at a building and going the the difficulty with the Contemporary buildings is that the floor to floor is like 10 ft and there's not enough space between the top of the sliding doors and the balcony to do any sort of bracket any sort of architectural feature that's proportionally correct it's going to force the Architects to say to themselves well that's not going to work because I can't pitch something that doesn't work they're going to have to go back to the developer back to themselves and they're going to have to figure out a way of doing it right and I think that if we hold us Architects to a higher level we're going to get the 1920 buildings we're going to get a beautiful AR Deco building we're going to get a beautiful neoclassical building a beautiful Mediterranean building a Santa Barbara style building which is cleaner lines and stuff and I think that bying holding a higher standard those things will happen easier and there's a moment in time where Architects as a whole have to look at themselves and say we need to pick up our game in order to get these things approved and I think that the switch in the pre review whatever you want to call it I don't think that that's a necessarily something you address to the neighbors and stuff at this point for the first review because it's hard enough to get something going I think that the first review should be am I on the right track are we doing something that in the future could get approved everyone's going to complain about something and and I think that there's time for The Neighbors to get involved I'd rather be told by the board of Architects listen fix this do this you know study the proportions of the base study the proportions of the shafts study the proportions of the top look at the column spacings and look at it as an aesthetic and then as it goes further down the road and and there's it's meaningful for the neighbors to get involved I think that there's a there's a point in time where if it's going to be shut down it's going to be shut down like and so I think we have to give at least the developer The Architects a chance to get something going before the world comes to town right and so that's just my my personal opinion but um in in looking at this whole thing as as a directive we present a lot to um the archon board in Palm Beach to the Miami Beach Board and I think that the coral g board is probably the best one the difficulty that they have is that not all the projects are Mediterranean or classically inspired and I think that if if you start to get Architects that are more developer oriented sometimes I feel that they're defending the client and I think this the switch is the architect inspires the client and I think that that's where it's going to start to shift and I think that this this program is set to make that shift and I think that's an important shift so my my daughter has her reveal tonight so thank you for taking your time so uh but congratulations to all Judy you're awesome and so I think we're in on the right track here so thank you for taking the time to come Good Luck Good Luck what's the look is this that do we have anybody else that would like to speak tonight I don't think so would you like to speak okay speaking but I just want to tell you that you state your name and address for the record please Maria Christina Longo and I live at 16 ficia Avenue and throughout the years I have been involved because I have invested with my family in the urban in the urban core which is a challenging part because you have all these big buildings and so I just want to tell you that I think this is fantastic and that um it was done the right way I think that the fact that the board of Architects participated and gave feedback I went to those workshops only as a list listener I didn't um you know whenever I could I probably said something but I was there to listen and I'm telling you that they were very excited about this opportunity because they are the ultimate group of people that when something passes and people are upset they said how did the board of Architects pass that so they I I think that this is fantastic I think think that as a resident many times unfortunately um the projects that that are proposed are not compatible in the design and review standards that the board of Architects have to follow in the code compatibility includes height massing and volume and I think as a resident if I know from the beginning look I just want to tell you about something exceptional that just happened the Alan Morris project that you rejected no the board of Architects rejected I'm sorry I'm confused they redesign with a traditional architect and then neighbors including me again because we I own the property near it I participated and collaborated with the developer and the collaboration um resulted in in a fantastic building the first luxury Condo building building that is um I think it's beautiful that will be built in our Pon Leon which I'm calling it the the the luxury District because it will be our first luxury condo we don't have any and this is the first one and it came out of the collaboration so the sooner that we know the better as a resident so thank you anyways for your um your work and I know that you take a lot of hours to be here and thank you for everything that you do thank you um Jill do we have anybody on Zoom no one's indicated that they want to speak so okay so let's have here I like the proposed changes I was part of the blue riving committee I'm glad something came out of it that was positive um and I uh thank the board of Ares for their efforts on this um with regards to notification at the conceptual level I'm of two Minds on that um one is that you do want to get some sort of of information from uh the comments from the people who live immediately around because some things are not necessarily obvious like traffic flows in the morning and and uh um coordinating orientation so that one front doesn't have the front door meeting exactly the other front door unless that's some sort of the design element that you want to project in the project and those kinds of things um uh don't necessarily come up until after that design has developed and it's really in the preliminary review stage so that I would think that notification if it were to be done I don't think it should be because you're at the skis level and if you're classically trained you it's the point on the design when you're submitting just a little massing study sketch of the project that you want to get reviewed and approved so that you know that you're heading in the right direction it's too early for really any kind of public comment and the board of architect is not a place for public comment for regard regards to design and I don't think that that's allowed during the pro the uh Board of Architects but information that could be gathered there usually you'd want to really help the developer at the conceptual stage saying hey maybe you want to start meeting with some of your neighbors if this is because this is going to happen for large projects nobody's going to go for conceptual review on a on a bathroom Edition on the side of their house that's that's that's not what this is intended for this is for projects that are going to be for uh U multi-story multi-use kind of projects and I think that the issue here is one of of public notice not necessarily one of public comment especially at the board of Architects level where it's not necessarily the place for for uh for that but uh certainly the the the developer should be communicating with the immediate neighbors with regards to the development of a project that that will impact back them so uh that's what I think needs to happen with regards to notification not necessarily from the uh uh as a requirement for conceptual review but that uh that perhaps the conceptual review uh is followed up with some sort of a public information before it goes into preliminary so that you force a meeting uh with at least the immediate neighbors within let's say 200 ft uh and that that has to recorded before you go to preliminary that would probably be the more ideal way to get that glean that information and get that input into the project and that way we don't get situations where well I never knew about it well yeah you did and so and and the it's important we live in a polite Society uh not necessarily on a national level but certainly as we have written a code at the City of Coral Gables it's all about being polite and being uh aware of your neighbors and how you're going to impact them and how they're going to impact you and that's what the rules here are all about so uh I I I applaud the need for uh for a uh conceptual review uh I think that some sort of a uh public requirement for communication with immediate Neighbors in a short radius should recur before they go back into preliminary so that the the uh the immediate people who need to know about it start knowing about it early enough and it's not a big requirement most of the big developers are now going through public meetings early on in the design process anyway this will cod codify that for these siiz projects and perhaps from a from a notification Point that's what we should be doing not necessarily tying a public meeting or public notification to uh to the uh conception review but making sure that a public meeting is held prior to submitt for preliminary review for these typ so ideally the process would be a conceptual review with the just the board of Architects and everybody's and and we're all just Architects playing okay uh and and we can share and and and really um outside comments are are are going to be distracting to the the the creation of the of the architecture at that stage right so ideally it would be conceptual design and then the DRC the development Review Committee corre that requires notification as sing the property exactly um and then at that point they have their um for a large property they have their their neighborhood meeting isn't isn't the DRC occurring after preliminary review or is it cing it's always before okay yes well then that that answers that question so that that just needs to make sure that that happens that's it it I think it it does it happens now yes that's part of the process good thank you um chip did you want to I just had a question about how this ties into a planned area development um how can I have an architectural uh criteria element that gives me a bonus on one part of the pad that would allow me to add additional density or F on another part of the pad I mean it's all a site plan so I mean if they're using their F from one side of it to another side as long as they're within that capped height they can do that you can move F amongst your site plan right so so they could I could this would change what you can do now I'm sorry what's proposed today is not going to change so that's still in play so so um if I want to go hire on one part of a the the the pad and I want to add F if I have that element somewhere else on on that site plan I can you can do that as long as you are within your Capp F and Capp height yes that's thank you sue uh no comments uh I but I do like the uh I do like the added examples and um the S Sebastian being eliminated I think that's a good idea that was uh not exactly a stellar uh uh example but the rest of them are thank you Felix well um these are my notes when I was fortunate enough to chair with uh these two gentlemen on on the uh Blue Ribbon committee and many of these have been incorporated into into this I I have a bigger um question I think I think that um representing the board I actually came before the planning board and uh some of the board members president company excluded um were were kind of um you know they they were kind of dismissive on the word compatibility especially with neighborhoods uh what I see with the pads that chip mentioned is is the um the eradication of components of um the single family home neighborhoods the encroachment into those areas and these pads become basically um a way to uh eliminate a a components of affordable housing in this in the city that for me is is very worrisome when when the bonuses first were um talked about um we were doing a building and most of the commercial buildings at that time were brutalistic architecture um very brutal and people were kind of getting sick and tired of that because it was it had evolved going to Glass boxes and uh some of them still stand and the glasses now uh discolored this disfigured and and they're not uh they're not anything that you would really want to say this is our our best I watched part of a recording of part of the hearing yesterday with my friend Richard heisen modle who is a preservationist that that his uh reputation uh is is absolutely remarkable and one thing is that when you're at a scale the smaller scale and this has been addressed um at at this level and at other levels but when you have large buildings large massing um it it becomes very difficult to be able to um put that gingerbread on there now you mentioned and and your staff so I guess you would be considered the substantial competent evidence um in in some of this massing some of the bigger buildings like the plaza um you you refer to it as it's got good architecture I think I think maybe what you meant to say was it has good architectural elements in it you know good detailing but the massive the the massing is just so enormous so out of scale it dwarfs everything and I could take on one side my hat off to the developer for putting in a lot of money into these details but when you see the massing it's it's you can't compare it to the massing of other large buildings that have that kind of detailing so the use of the bonus was instituted in the first place to be able to offset that cost of making something that was going to cost more so when there was a sunshine meeting and uh I spoke at that meeting about the problem with bonuses for Mediterranean when they didn't exist then I gave as the example the zuie building that received Mediterranean bonuses it was not a Mediterranean building so the Blue Ribbon committee was created we labored for a long time the style was the only component that was implemented and then the committee was um unceremoniously disbanded specifically by one of the previous Commissioners now the compatibility with the neighborhoods the preservation of the V Vision components of historic buildings has been ignored after this whole thing with the blue ribbon committee and there was more implementation of these elements for Med bonus and Med design it's fallen off the Wayside again it's only been 2 years my notes are dated 10121 it's just you know I I think that we've also should really look into ourselves and say you know these bonuses which are discretionary maybe they should just be eliminated and the board of Architects simply provide good design thought for the approvals I just think that these bonuses we're not getting the rate of return that was originally implemented back in the 80s and it's just gotten to the point where um I think that it's a mistake to you know continue thinking that this is going to solve all these problems and a lot of it has to do with the height of the buildings A lot of it has to do with the detailing and a lot of a lot of it has to do with putting that last unit that last square foot that last everything we could stick in there for a rate of return so me personally if if the bonuses which are discretionary um evaporate tomorrow I won't miss it thank you um Robert once again I want to commend staff for the great job including the board of Architects for all the effort that theyve put in to make this and and and I was part of that blue Rim panel which we a lot of us accomplished there um I when it comes to the notification and the conceptual I I kind of agree with with somewhat of what jaier said and what uh Port also said I I don't think that it should be I think the architect should come to the board and get the initial feedback I'm going tell you what we just did um and I was at the board last week unfortunately Judy wasn't there but before we went to the board for conceptual we met with the neighborhood I know six seven times so we took it upon oursel before to to to interact with the neighbors before going in and we heard and and and their concerns made us change the project significantly okay but we went to the boore and we got some feedback which I thought was very positive before having to go through the formal submitt I think we all have learned that it is going to be advantageous to get the neighborhood involved they meet the neighbors before going too far into the process um the plaza I I agree with you Felix very well detailed building building very expensive building but it's a very massive project and when you look at each of those building there's it's very massive and I want to address one as a speaker on the Alan Morris it was the chairman and myself who denied that project the very first time on two occasion and and I denied it I and and Mr Morris has never forgiven me for denying the project because it was not compatible it was 190 ft and we said that's not compatible there and we we sent it back and I won't forget because there was H the attorney who spoke for three hours that night and it was right before you know 10 to9 and he said well make a decision absolutely not so we send it back and and I'm glad they came back with a much more toned down building as far as the maing of it uh I wasn't here the last time they came but I understand it was like substantially less than the original so you know uh the chairman and myself were I don't know chip were you on the board at the time yes I spoke from the public you can do this you did you did and I let him happen and and and and so that you know so I I you know I just want to clear that that we had to do is sending that project back um thank you as far as the uh Board of Architects with the conceptual meeting I agree with the rest of the comments as far as it is a meeting that is to present an idea to get feedback um I don't think to me it's a technical bit it's a technical meeting in reality and I don't think that by having the public at that meeting to give input is constructive um from what I'm seeing now is projects that are coming are starting to get ahead by meeting with the neighbors early which is a good thing um in the past I had not seen that I had seen more you know we've done our two meetings at quired we had eight people show up and we've done it but now uh I think the developers and the representatives of the developers are saying that they need to interact with the public um the public is within the DRC review they are notified so the process is already there and I'm good with that and that act that process is actually before the board of Architects so there is no notification um regarding the Mediterranean bonuses you know respectfully I disagree with my colleague Felix um everybody is entitled to their points and he brings up good good reasons but I disagree um I think the elements that are there or that are available bring an added benefit to the city and to the design and I'm not talking as an architect I'm talking as a lay person um and it is up to the pnz board and the commission whether they agree to Grant those bonuses or so forth if I'm not mistaken um and actually Mr Pono Pono Raphael is the one who actually made a good point on the conceptual and on the bonuses and so forth and how to um do that a concern that I have would be if somebody decides to for for the Mediterranean bonuses if somebody decides to bring a blueprint of the builtmore lay it down in front of the architect and say you got to design it like this that to me is an issue because all the buildings will start to kind of look the same and I wouldn't like to see that I would like for the Architects to have individual uh style you know I like the fact that you have to implement and meet the certain criteria whether it's six or it's eight um but I think you know there's different Architects that have different styles and I feel very comfortable with the board of Architects making the decision as to whether they should Grant the Mediterranean bonuses or not I mean that's that's a place to do it I don't think it's up to the Planning and Zoning Board to tell them it does or it doesn't that's just my way of looking at it um you've gotten the feedback is there something more that you need from us that you're looking from us I don't think so so I think um from here on out we're going to take this feedback Implement what we can and come back to you with the next meeting recommendation from this board before M to commission Mr chairman can I just say one little thing has nothing to do with actually out of our perview to tuty I know that I get a lot I mean a lot of people asking me how could the board of Architects have approved this and now I'm talking about single family homes that that look like they're out of West Kendall or something or Dural I'm sorry but just the detailing of a typical 1950s home has more more Purity to it than some of the pardon me junk that has gone up recently square boxes with the square boxes with the Overflow scuppers coming out of them like you know I couldn't agree with you more I I mean I think a lot got through during Co okay um that's I got it you know that's one explanation um another is the special master has approved a series of things that we were rejected four and five times in recent um months um so I never thought of I don't know honestly it it it makes the rest of us um you I mean I you know you wins too yes horribly so and and you know you drive it's hard to drive through the city you think my god did we really approve that no it's it's not possible but stuff does get by us so I don't know but we feel the same way I know all of us feel the same way thank you we do our best that's all I can tell you we do our best on beh of Planning and Zoning Board you know I want to thank you for all your dedication and your work and please relay that to all the Architects on the board because it doesn't get it doesn't go unnoticed thank you we do appreciate it thank you thank you uh are we good with this item I think so okay should we go ahead and read uh yes going back to the only item on the agenda that requires uh an action from the board item E3 in ordinance of the city commission providing for text amendments to the city of Carl Gable's official zoning code Article 15 notices section 15-12 notice to require door hangers as additional notification for required public information meetings for multifam and mixed use projects providing for repealer provision cability Clause codification providing for an effective date item E3 public hearing so Garcia planing official so as you're aware before you go to planing zoning board and sometimes before you go to board of Architects depending on the size of the property um you are required to have a neighborhood meeting now neighborhood meeting is usually notified by mail to invite them to a neighborhood meeting sponsored and and hosted by a developer or you know applicant right um this um proposed text amendment is to um increase the uh ways of types of notification by adding a requirement that in addition to the mail notice you would now be required to have a door hanger within a certain amount of feet 1,00 ft or 300 feet dep pay on the property um we discussed this yesterday at the city commission uh meeting there was some feedback I got from the commission and from uh the chief hudok um maybe having the requirement also after I think 48 hours after the meeting is held that they'll be required to go back and see if there's any door hangers that are still laying there on the door and removing those so that it's not notifying that a person's not present in their house the newspaper pick them up I mean it it's kind of sounds like somebody that's campaigning and puts all those door door hangers on the door but it's only for notifications though she said correct yes uh only for meeting it's not for public hearings chip I mean I I I don't like it but you know that gets the message across I'm more concerned when a developer will just blast a a um an entire building without putting a name on it and it just says resident most people throw that out anyway I think that's totally ineffective yeah I would rather see names put on it and you know on addresses but if that if that I just think I I don't know I mean it's it's just I don't think it's going to work but hopefully it does I mean when I see a door hanger I either think it's someone that wants to trim my trees or deliver me pizza so agre I agree you know I just got a door hanger today from the city from uh from uh Parks Parks and Recreation because they I'm sorry I just got I just got a door hanger today from the city because they're closing off um Riviera between the youth center and the library for the literacy uh um event the um Festival on Saturday so they're letting people know and you definitely will get it and open it with or rather read it because it's hanging there but like chip said you know I I'm not one for the door hangers I think you know when we travel we we stop our newspaper we we we stop our mail it's it's almost like you know and I could see where Ed Hudak is coming you know where hey someone is telling everybody you're not there and especially if it's there for a while and then going back well I never saw it that kind of thing I think doing maybe doing a better job like uh the day that chip got the uh yeah you know the stack of returned letters you know the the notifications I think maybe doing a much better job with that I don't know how but there's got to be a way of of doing it does does a developer when they send out their notices do they have to give something to the city that it's that it's certified that certified mail um no no I don't I don't mean certified mail but did they have to attest to the fact yeah they s an affidavit saying they mailed out within this uh radius and then that affidavit that they signed they give you the list I assume of the people does somebody in the staff and the city actually look that it's got the names of all the individuals such as what well usually we'll have people complain saying they didn't get notice we'll look at the what's on there and maybe they just bought the property within the last few months and this was generated before they bought the property just typo many times with the county um it's difficult to so you take it off the tax rle is not you but the developer takes that information off the there are compan do that specifically but where do they get the information from the county the property priser okay website okay Sue um any way we can make sure that residents find out about what's going on I'm all for it uh I think uh that stack of letters that was returned was abominable for that one project and nobody had a solution for it I mean this this was how many months ago that we held up that stack has there been resolution to that not that we've heard okay so if that's a if that method is going to continue to produce those kinds of results which are it's not getting to the residents we have to find a better method of communicating with the residents right okay and so far we have excuse me so far we have not addressed that this is a way to address this I don't care if it's the goody year blimp in the sky saying there's a a project going up whatever it takes it is incumbent upon the city to notify the residents about what is going to impact their neighborhoods and their lives it's incumbent and you've got to figure it out if it's door hangers it's door hangers and as far as the police or the developers going back to collect the tags we have neighborhood ambassadors that we pay that go in and out of my street and all they're doing is riding up and down why don't we have have them have them do the job of collecting those after two days it doesn't have to be the police it doesn't have to be the developer put the neighborhood ambassadors to work okay that's thing number one thing number two I don't know about you but the main form of communication that I'm finding is WhatsApp why doesn't this city develops some kind of WhatsApp for neighborhoods and that developer can through the WhatsApp app Target the neighborhood where the develop development is going in that's a way of easily getting to neighbors but something has to be developed to notify residents because I can tell you I can't tell you how many people call me and say I heard but I never received I heard but I never received what's going on so we're not doing a very good job this is the number one issue in in Coral Gables is development if we're not telling the residents what are happening We are failing we're failing the residents so I'm suggesting one thing our award-winning it Department should be looking into a WhatsApp M form of communication targeted its specific neighborhoods okay you can do it this is the 21st century it so up until that time if hang tags are another way to ensure that somebody is going to get notified I am all for it and like I said it doesn't have to lie on it on a door knob forever get those neighborhood ambassadors to take them off after two days okay what see what I was going to ask you do you recall that stack of envelopes or chip were they missing were they missing the apartment numbers is that why there was a whole stack yeah so in names I mean yeah even even if it just says resident but I think if I recall it was missing the apartment numbers it was just the address of the building but no units so if that's the case and and yeah so if there's a property that has multiple rental units there's no property praiser list that we can get to notify individual units it goes to the property so maybe that's something that I would like to look at more so the way it's distributed because if if you've got an apartment building that has 40 units and they're all being sent to the address but no apartment number there's a problem there and I think a lot of them were PO Boxes for a corporation or something but then that's up to the owner then the owner want probably the owner yeah the owner and then you also have the issue if if you have an apartment building you have security you may not be able to go to every door and put a hanger you know so it it really um I I agree there will be a find a better way to notify the owner but I don't think the door hangers are the correct way and and to to to make the Ambassador you know go back and clean that up or the developer that's I don't I don't agree with the door hanger well like I said Robert until we find the 100% solution for being able to notify every resident that should be notified this is a method at least it if it's interim it's interim and if it works that's fantastic but unless somebody comes up with 100% proof solution we need to do something look we we have and you were saying about you know a WhatsApp app or something we have in in our neighborhood we have a chat that you know in Santa Maria pinor and we communicate I don't do it because I I I I I hate to get the phone ringing every 2 minutes you know somebody my wife does she stays on it but there's something that maybe could be done to that effect that could be beneficial to to the neighborhood well well there's a next door and there's WhatsApp but WhatsApp seems to be the most popular way to communicate these days I don't know why but it is okay so between next door and every neighborhood has a Next Door Group the Riviera neighborhood has a Nextdoor group okay you got to reach out to those methods of new communication but before we get to that point we have to do something right now because projects are in the pipeline how are we going to notify people because our current system isn't working and so as a temporary measure I am all for door hangers let's try it can can I ask a question how big are the signs that we post property I mean there they are they still those little teeny 3x5 yeah I mean how effective are those it depends on the property so I mean if you have an entire block that's vacant and you post it you can't see it very well right but if you're just an infill building you're walking by obviously you can see it pretty well just depends on the size of property I mean I'm I'm I'm not a developer but I'm working on something up in OB sound and I have to put up a it's like a two foot x two foot sign you know I mean the the only the only thing that see a problem with doing huge signs is there is a signage code that the city has you know we require Realtors to have signs excise we require other businesses or whatever that you know and it you have to be the same across the board for me if you're going to well I would be thinking of like 10 days out from a meeting or a week out from a meeting not for a month or two months you know just a notification that would be my only do do developers have to can you speak into the do developers have to uh comply with the same size as yeah it's in the zoning CL I believe it's 40 in it's pretty much a half of I go by a a development every I run by every day and and they've got a sign that's about this big by this big right up on the construction fence a construction fines different regulations but for like advertising for DRC or for py and Zoning Board it's a half a page oh so you could you can actually put them on a construction fence and be much bigger I don't know what the regulations are yes yes you can okay so maybe that should be one way to make the advertisement a little bit more visible because the little cars there you know the little yellow on you can see that so maybe you could do something you know 10 days before not keep it there the thing what i' run by is like this and like that construction fence congratulations I don't like the wall the door hangers I think it's a bad idea I just think that it's just adding cost and complexity to a process which is pretty well established uh as to notification I think that more importantly any of the notification that goes out should refer back to some sort of a a listing on the website that defines what the project is so everybody knows what it is and it's posted early enough with regards to the process every time we have a project here we have all the list of the presentations and and board meetings and the different boards and the dates and whatnot all those require notification and they just needs to be tracked on on the website so that you know where they are in the process and what the next steps are and um eventually people will figure it out but anything that we do whether it's door hangers or mailers we should refer them back to something that we have as a city under our control with regards to the information that's being put out there the problem is that you D you have standard forms that you use just like when you post a property says on a yellow card it's about 5 by uh maybe 4 by 10 40 square in that says notice on black letters on a yellow background and then there's some space on you know I just did this today I just noticed a property because we're we're going up before the board for a preliminary review of a modification of a building uh and it's on the 23rd and so you write down there it'll be on the 23rd at this board well I think maybe the when you have your application number you they should put the application number on there and if you go to the website and you hit anybody just on the information you put the application there boom it should take you right to the to the the item number what the description of the job is and and uh we have our electronic filing you can upload drawings and whatnot onto there and people can look at all they want and I'm going to go see you about another project that got built recently I want to know who approved it I'm not going to complain I'm going to find out who did it all right no but I think it might have been you yeah so right now our our not I mean this isn't for the neighborhood meeting right now our notic is for DRC and for planning zoning board do say notice they have number on there and a website from the go to so they can see the agenda click on the actual item and download the staff report when I look at those things they uh um I'll look at them again and I'll reserve my commentary for when I come in for the request for information okay all right thank you how how diligent is a city with actually collecting residents emails and so forth to be able to so we have that application um we're still working on the fine tuning of it um to to get people to basically register themselves opt into a email notification and then when staff when there's a project coming up will basically Identify the property and it'll give us that you know 1,000 foot or, 1500 foot radius so there's the issue is that you have to have people opt in to receive that notice so we don't have very many people who have opted into that okay it's a data collection issue yeah that's what it is yeah which I think is be a very similar issue with the what's Happ fix I I just wanted to say remember that um of course not the last couple years but you know in the past uh a a broker having his you know little 3x5 or whatever it is it could be there for months you know depending on their contract six six months a year you know that's that's very different than you know putting up something for public hearing you know and and and putting something up where it's substantial enough I know that there are other jurisdictions where you Bay Harbor actually Bay Harbor goes ahead for a construction project they put a huge sign yeah and then they which is put up in front of the property which has a picture of the project a brief description application number for I think it's for the commission meeting or what they call the council meeting and then it's taken down right it's only up for like two weeks or 3 weeks or something their code yeah that's it right I I think maybe you should look at those options I I I agree with Sue you know as far as the app is concerned without any doubt um and and other electronic ways that your it Department can do it but the door hangers to me uh you know hanging that thing there it's just telling everyone that you're not you're not there and and that's a security problem if you've ever been broken into you know that's that's not a good idea I don't I don't think um but I like the blimp to move this along would somebody actually before I do that do we have any speakers on Zoom yes we have one speaker can you please put them on does this item require voting Miss gold can you I I'm I'm unmuted can you hear me yes okay uh Cheryl go I live at 721 built Norway um I don't have any prepared remarks I didn't think I was even going to be speaking tonight but I listened to the discussion on Med bonus and now I'm listening to the discussion about notifications and I wanted to give you an example of something where I think um it's it's just not on anybody's radar um I live in a highrise building and two properties will be developed one behind me at 7:30 car away one next to me at 719 car away there was no notification required number one there was a tiny little notice in front of the properties I don't walk around onto carway so I would never see that so no notification required to neighbors and beyond that because these two properties were undersized and up zoned there's no requirement for them to go before the Planning and Zoning Board or the Commission in order to get their Med bonuses So I listened to your whole discussion about Med bonus and how everything's going to have to go from the boa to the Planning and Zoning Board and then the last the last appeal is at the commission well these two properties one of which goes from a four story building to 190 foot story building without any review by you or the commission and without any notification to the residents so I think somebody needs to look at this loophole that's in the code now since the overall which allows big projects like this 190 fet is the L is the highest height allowed in the builtmore section okay north of nor north of builtmore way and and without you ever even looking at it without the residents even knowing about it no requirement that the development has to meet with the residents that live within like a I don't know 5 foot setback M Miss I suggest that she get together with Jennifer to miss no this is that's not productive Jennifer knows exactly what's happening this is but what I I'm bringing it up today because you're talking about notification and there are a whole bunch of uh uh not just the normal notification you have to think about the high people that live in highrises obviously the door hangers don't work for those highrises um and I think it is something that the Planning and Zoning Board should be aware of um and engaged with in how to fix this loophole of high-rise projects that are being approved without it ever coming to the Planning and Zoning Board so um thank you ma'am it has to do with Med bonuses and notification and somehow exemptions from any of these requirements that you have just discussed for the last I don't know since 6 o' so thank you thank you Miss gold um Jennifer can you if you can you shed some light on this yes so many years ago there a legal opinion for this area bmore section it doesn't matter how large or small your property is even the underline zoning mfsa and mf2 had um partial requirements legal pay said the site specifics trumps those requirements the site spe did not have any parcel size therefore they were allowed to go up to that height no matter the side of the parcel okay so those projects are able to go 190 ft with the med bonus yes what because of the underlying land use the land use was high density but that was because of the up zoning that changed the um requirement for The Med bonus uh ability to get the maximum mid bonus from 20,000 to 10,000 square feet these lots are only a little more than 10,000 square feet it used to be that you had to meet the minimum of 20,000 square feet but then when they did the overhaul they made it 10,000 square feet so it's a little different than what Jennifer just explained I'm sorry it was Chang at 10,000 square F feet because the legal opinion said that it doesn't matter how large or small a parcel is excuse me this is the north side of builtmore yes correct builtmore way yeah right so the L use was always high density there it was just High underneath the mf2 remember the whole trying to make the zoning code more transparent and not hiding all the heights oh wait a minute wait a minute everything and the former planning director yeah in the middle of Co all this thing happened and that that basically made a mistake and then the city had to correct it but the question here has to do with with this is the north side of buil notification there was a litigation and there was I think through a settlement or something they gave that interpretation no the one you're talk that one's on the South Side that's you're correct it's on the south side behind the builtmore right right that one is the one that that one went to litigation City got involved and there was a special yeah concession given to the develop city was sued on that one exactly but this is the north side of of builtmore that traditionally had a high density along that side both sides of the builtmore that's why the David William is there because that's considered a a residential high-rise Corridor right and um they removed the requirement for uh minimum 20,000 ft to allow for higher Towers on on but that was only granted on the north side of the street that's correct not on the south side of the street but she's talking about which is exactly I know I I know M gold well and what she was saying is that there was no notification for that and and that because it was by right but you still have to the come here it was not requiring a site plan approval and never had required a Cy planine approval mf2 never had any kind of Cy planine approval depend on the size of property unless you're doing are that's a big loophole yeah that's a that's a that's what she's talking about and it's a loophole and it's a problem because it creates uh an inequity across a street that should be a corridor you follow me oh yeah and you've taken rights away from the people on the South Side uh well it was the in the process of this quote unquote transparent solution which it was neither soltion or transparent let's what i' like to do is just go back to the door hangers but Jennifer if you can look into it if there's anything that can be done you know I think on can I just ask one question have we maybe we do but do we use QR codes much on any of this yes we do so on the notice the posted notices we have a QR code on that posted notice the posted I don't think we do on the property we do uh require that for the the mail notice well you know maybe on the property yeah everybody carries their cell phone but they don't always carry their piece of paper to write down hearing numbers you know so on on this item just to bring us back to what we're doing uh we need some form of motion on the door hanger so what I was going to ask and we can is there anybody that would like to move on the I'd like to make a motion yes that uh we deny this um resolution the door hanger as presented as presented is there I'll second that so it's it's a denial of the of item E3 as presented as presented an ordinance we have a a motion we have a second any discussion I I would can you speak into the just for the reporter I would hope that maybe uh does leave more direction for staff that other Avenue were explored we just spoke for half an hour about it I think she got all the direction she needs so you don't you don't need that as a you know come back okay all right any other discussion no call the rle please Felix Paro yes jaier Salman yes CHP wethers yes Robert Bear yes Su Kavinsky no AB as inat yes thank you uh very much uh there's no other item on the agenda for tonight I'll make a motion to adjourn we have a motion all in favor say I I thank you everybody for [Music] coming [Music] e e e e e