##VIDEO ID:0-u6WfjunVU## are we ready to get the show on the road sure okay all right this historic preservation commission meeting is being held on December 17 20124 at 7:00 p.m. statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act was provided on February 1st 2024 of this meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranber press in Trenton Times posted on the township Bolton board and mail to those requesting personal notice and file with municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours please miss sum uh here and I'd say two hours Miss Ryan uh here four hours Mr Guyer here one hour beyond the meeting Mr H here to and a half hours Miss Marlo here one hour Mr Sabo here two hours and miss bini here one hour thank you Miss K is not here yet okay we do have a quorum chair we're good all right so we'll start with our application at 17 Bunker Drive Bunker Hill Drive I the other this one okay um we are going to have some worked on to our home we are um what first brought us on was our front porch um the foundation of the porch is sinking a little so we need to do some repair work on the foundation of the porch um and we called Tom here Tom's been doing work on the home um for many years uh with the previous owners um with uh before we bought the home and so we stuck with him since he's familiar with the home and has done a lot of work on it so um basically we're doing the re repairing the front porch and um we're adding solar panels and you'll see on on there that we've got pretty much we have some flat parts of the roof um where you can't really see where the solar panels are going to be located and um on the garage as well which the garage is on the back side of the home um and then we have some sighting that we're going to do on the this there's the whole house has been redone with this sighting by Tom and there's one little section that hasn't been done and we're going to do that as well um um the same way that he's done the rest of the house if you have questions I'm more than happy to answer anything what is this again my name is Thomas Lee I'm an architect I'd worked on this structure uh 30 something years ago all of you look very unfamiliar and um I used to come here I it seemed like every four five months I did a lot of projects in Cranberry back in the 90s uh Dei house uh the Dene house uh couple of other buildings on Bunker Hill so anyway it was kind of interesting to come back and look at a house that we had worked on 30 years 30 something years ago so uh but any saying the porch was the main topic of discussion we it's starting to Sag and you know with a lot of um of the old structures in town basically what they had was they put in some literally fied stone for footings okay and over the years I gather what's happening is those start to deteriorate and then those structures start to Sag a little bit so I what we're proposing to do is dig down put in new concrete footings with the peers in the same location basically the same size but out of concrete block which will be plastered we are planning on redoing the structure of the floor okay of the the actual porch I can't get underneath there at this point I don't want to tear the thing apart until we get your Okay and probably reframe that porch then we'll put down a new uh porch floor which currently it has a a a TNG a tongue and groove um flooring that floor is 3/4 of an inch thick that's probably not well back in the day when these were built they all had what they called five quarter by three and a quarter that's what we plan on putting back the five quarter material holds up a lot better over a period of time so that's what we plan on doing we will repaint that porch okay the floor The Columns have to well the whole roof will have to be lifted a little bit supported and then we can go back to the original com uh columns there is some issues with some of the columns I think they've already the bottoms have been replaced okay and the trim board and the cap block on those base columns we're going to have to redo those those are not in good shape they're starting to rot um so there's a couple of other little details there we would have to take the railing up one of the other things that's happening is the railing the base rail at part of the floor right up against the structure the main house that's setting directly on the porch for it needs to be up about an inch and a half to keep it from rotting because the leaves blow in and the rain it can't get out there's a number of different little items like that the steps have to be uh rebuilt replaced and um discarding underneath the trellis work okay will be replaced right now that is a plastic trellis um it's very flat it's this direction at a 45 degree what I'm proposing of doing it was much more typical at that time period to do something that was it's almost like a 38 to a half inch uh inch and a half board vertical on the front face horizontal on the back that creates that grid underneath the porch That's much more typical of this time period okay um so there's there's a bunch of little things that have to be cleaned up um and then we're doing the the walkway and the walks that there are two walks leading up to the front porch and one on the side those are out of brick they are really starting to deteriorate it's been 30 something years we will pull those up replace completely um the sand mortar mix underneath them reset the Brick New Brick and clean that up um we're going to keep that Mill wheel there that's that's staying I was gonna ask what's what do you know about that what is that that was T and Granger had two or three of those okay and we placed one of those there when we did the new porch the side porch in that walkway so she had I forget where she said she got those from she took one with her when she moved over to new hope to their new house and that one stayed so that will stay so um those are really they're very unique yeah um it was funny I was just at the Brandy Wine Museum and they have these all over the place and they've created little Terraces so you can picnic and different things and they all have one of those gming stones so really kind of interesting the other thing that we're planning on doing is on if you're facing the house from the street on the right hand side that sighing was never replaced that's the original sighting it's really coming apart uh and the problem with a lot of that original sighting was there's no sheathing behind it but the house really breathe more back in the day and so now what we would like to do take that siding off reinsulate that wall which is not insulated and that's on the north north side corner so it'll be a good wall to kind of get some insulation in there we will put up a sheathing a house wrap on top of that and then then put back a cedar siding that will match the um exposure I believe it's like five inches okay on that that varies um depending on who the carpenter is what they used to do is they would take the siding and lay out on a coursing board take it up to the bottom of the window stool so that allow and then they would hit it at the drip cap on top of the window so those Dimensions vary a little bit so hopefully that's what will happen this time uh it's not exactly five it might be five and a quarter five um so it's varied um then it'll be same color as primed everything then painted two coats and it'll be they used to use more of a almost like a a gloss or semi gloss today we really wouldn't do that okay we would put on almost it's not a mat but it's a flat yeah that will hold up better um what little bit of trim is on that side around the window all of that and the skirt board on that side once we start taking everything off we'll see what we need to remove and replace in case it is rotten we don't want to oh take it to a certain level and not fix everything that's there um one of the other major elements of this project is they're wanting to add solar panels okay um I'm a huge propone of solar okay on almost all my past three projects residential projects they all have solar the one thing I don't like is how they look so I go out of my way to kind of make them disappear and hopefully the orientation is good and it is on this house where he's proposing to place these they are um you really won't see it unless you're on the wide side of the yard okay and then the only place you would really notice it is on a two-car garage at the very back of the property okay um yeah I think it's only Place You' see it is on the garage if you walk all the way behind the house and then you'd see it on the garage but everywhere else you won't be able to see it yeah on the house the main most of the other panels are on flat Parts flat roofs that were done back 30 years ago and those were structurally much more heavy okay for the flat roofs when we did that so putting the solar panels on top of those shouldn't be a problem um the nice thing that I think even on the back garage is the panels are equal if you look around at a lot of places they'll do all of these solar panels and they'll leave one out in a corner because they can only put up a certain number of panels um this is not that way it's seems balanced um this guy has done a lot of work actually I think he is proposing panels for somewhere here Library I think he's doing the library the same people are doing the library um very knowledgeable very efficient um so looking forward to working with them um if there are any other questions I you know more than happy to answer them no very thorough thank you um it this was something and I'd always done my trellis work below porches I never did the diagonal I always did the vertical but there was a great 30 years ago there wasn't that much stuff on the internet so um the old house guy he talked about porches in detail about how to do every little thing and the one thing he did talk about was that trellis work and how it should be done and what should be vertical and what should be horizontal and it was really kind of funny because it did exactly what I've always done but um if you haven't seen his information I'll leave this here for you he's really good he talks about paint um and you know there's there's some interesting stuff we had a discussion on painting the ceiling of the porch yeah I don't want to do it though he was he was what is it currently stained or no no it's it's painted kind of the blue of the house I believe or it might even be the cream I don't even know it might be the cream I don't sometimes they do like a sky blue yeah it's not the sky that's what you were saying to do the sky blue but we we have cream yeah it's be yeah it's a yellow pine half inch uh Beed board oh you're supposed to paint it blue um because then the bugs and the birds don't go in there because they think it's the sky oh maybe I should do that I have mine painted um although I have to say still have some sort of thing in the corner that decided to Nest oh I didn't even know that maybe we should paint it blue then yeah that's what they do in the South this is helping yeah they do that in in the South a lot they do it that's where we we picked up the idea when we were in Charleston okay it could be very very very it's a sky blue yeah yeah blue and when I was when I was in college a few years ago the town where the city where I went to school in they had a historic district and every building in that historic district every porch was blue and I thought and I asked somebody one of my professors and he says oh that's that's typical they always do that on historic houses yeah that's the reason it's to because it's supposed to look like the sky so they aren't gonna Nest there or now I've never heard that I've never heard that before either that's interesting and I heard also the insects about keeping insects away we still have some though I don't know something wasn't fooled have to swat it away wasn't fooled um I had a question so okay uh just to confirm so you're going to be doing a vertical Square L uh lattice kind of like um in in this picture here is what you're you're doing instead of the one that's on the angle right okay and then um Amy is your that your garage where the um solar panels are going to be where you can see them from the the garage it's that um sorry um the um is the um can you see it from the farm like if you're if you're driving on Plainsboro no Road okay because it's on the uh south side it's it's on the south side and there was a bar that was moved is facing the school uh the school and the library so you won't be able to see it from anywhere okay the leaves school will see it or um will the school see it no because we have trees so the school can't even see my house heavily wooded right in yeah we have a lot of trees um you can't see it unless you actually walk up right behind the house you won't be able to see it okay there's also a barn that was moved yeah okay and that's kind of it sets off from the house but at the end of the driveway from the school you would you would look from the school you would probably look into the side of the garage more the barn the Old Red Barn okay more than the back of the garage okay I just want that that was my one question and I I I happen to drive back there to a different house in your neighborhood and I I kind of was looking and I saw kind of how your backyard looked but it was hard to tell like um yeah where these um would be so I just wanted to make sure that it's not like since you're driving around like to go to the other house and then the school is right there the library is right there that they won't see those trees there I don't you can't see you can't see the really the garage from there okay the interesting thing about that property is when I worked on it 30 something years ago the old rri roses that's how I knew that house was the right roses house okay those structures were still there that was a very different landscape than what it is today but it was really fascinating and those green houses they had the huge circular um chimney that was there it's really too bad they all of that was lost in a sense the only thing that kind of recaptures that is the gym that was done a TW story gym that's kind of when it's lit at night you see yeah yeah the green houses used to have a glow at night that a glow also kept so there's a certain amount that that does kind of reflect back to that time but uh yeah it's it's changed now completely does anyone have any other questions um or comments no okay I am recused correct okay okay your garage is behind but the barn is to the left okay yes I see I see I see okay yes okay so um I'm going to make a motion to approve anyone second okay all right so we call missm yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes Miss Marlo yes and Mr Sabo yes thank you motion pass thank you thank you much your thank you thank you you too too know what the when I did those stru here and but I pull all of these res I have to say I was very excited when I opened the package and all the drawings were handlettered and you had and you and you had caber uh stencils for the page numbers I do remember I love it yeah no it's a pleasure thank you thank you right good holiday thank you yeah that was that was a real treat to have somebody with that perspective yeah he know well let's just stick with the guy that's been working on this house you don't have to start over again okay so the next item is um any new business that anyone would bring up um and were we gonna bring up anything do we have any updates on um on the windows on Maplewood she's gave me an application she did give me an updated application okay and went to the details of what she did install okay that's it and so we and Andre did you get my email no Andre is going to send her a letter and just a letter okay you did something flap your hand okay and then we'll have that in the files okay so and just so basically just to um Loop everyone in um I think you guys may remember um it was seven Maplewood they were replacing Windows they were doing a a renovation um and they had asked to do um vinyl windows and we um stated that they needed to do wood from the yeah from the street sign um we received Robin and I received some email Communications kind of pushing back on hpc's decision um we asked for them to provide um evidence for why they still felt that they needed to do vinyl um and then they just went ahead and inst all vinyl so um we are um we're issuing a sort of a soft violation as you will um because you know I think the home is non-contributing um although it's it's kind of non I think it I thought it was non-contributing I don't have it in front of me but I think it was contributing and the windows are listed as one of the defining features that yeah we let's put up to yeah let's do that because it makes a difference because like my issue is that if it is non-contributing it's non-contributing due to neglect and I I think that we should not allow homes to be neglected and then fall into non-contributing status um and so you know I think it's it's it's a problem um and you know we did a lot of research too even though we're not supposed to to try to figure out this if there was this really cost prohibitive difference and we couldn't find one in our own just did they provide that I think we had a discuss they never provided any evidence because the installation per window was extraordinary what's the difference between the Anderson and the vinyl no so it's pretty disappointing um so that's why I think we're going to be moving forward with um issuing some Communications um but did you you see yeah and they did state that those were the original windows that they were taking out contributing it is contributing remember this okay per the property map for the district it says um on the survey form this property is a contributing property the historic district because it retains integrity and such character defining features as massing of its extor historic main volume front porch historic porch posts and historic window sash great okay all right so um do we want to issue a hard violation then about and mandating because the the the rule is is that if they're in violation they're supposed to fix it back to the way it should be or the way we had approved it um or we could do a soft violation which is saying you know you did it already and we're not going to make you change it um but this doesn't mean that we're going to ever approve vinyl windows for anyone else is is there any other remedy I mean the old windows are gone yeah you know I mean they'd have replace the vinyl sash with wood sash that would be the only true remedy yeah but there's no penalties like monetary or otherwise that can be imposed there in in the past even though they they have not imposed monetary penalty which is unfortunate because there's nothing than to stop people from doing it when people see them doing it they would say well they didn't have to comply why do I yeah I think if you make a note in the file for this proper and that sort of should prevent anybody else using that as an example of wanting to use vile Windows because there's an issue I I think you're setting you're opening a door and setting an example that people are going to that no I mean saying it's wrong just put it in the file because we did that one a property on uh North Main Street the Strong's old house where they put that bay window yeah and that's in the file that that was not approved but it wasn't taken out but it's for future that was because they like they like I mean they literally cut into the house a big Square um although they fixed it and made it remember they centered it to your point though this I mean they should be doing W wood windows is just what we said um I think unless I think it could slip by Because unless someone you know actually references seven Maplewood another different brain property or someone else I I don't know you know how we are going to say they were in violation so you can't do like I I think the reference could get missed I mean all right so why don't we take it step by step um and I think what we'll do is we'll have the Builder um building department issue a standard violation um and then we'll see um what comes of that um it doesn't come before I don't believe I I believe it goes before the the it's the building building department Zing off yeah so up to them to enforce it yeah yes so we and but we're having a relationship now a little bit with them right because we're um we met with them right or was a different depart violations after the okay so I think we should issue the standard um see what comes back out of that and take it one step at a time and so the next step let's discuss in the next meeting and we'll we'll take it one step at a time because we don't want to cause um we don't want to you know we're going to have to make some we may have to make some tough decisions um but I think we should just let's just kind of start down the normal process um with with is um it's unfortunate but um well yeah we can't not really I mean yes we we should have the zoning officer put them on notice or whatever it is that they need to do but at this point in terms of enforcement it's really out of our hands right so that's correct so we can make the recommendation to the zoning department and say this is a violation of what we approved and take it from there okay and they'll issue the violation and then we'll see you know what happens but we don't have to we we don't have to be the bad guy you know no but we can be in touch with the zoning I think I agree to the extent that like our role here is to help the officials understand were these windows important to the house and they were they're specifically listed as to one of the reasons why it's contributing so we can let them know that but yeah we're not the enforcement officials here I'm glad you cleared up the they not I don't know why thought at Le on the record and we and if another application comes and says well you seven did final window we said well we didn't approve those yeah there's a violation been issued and it's not acceptable so we can't do it either okay all right good so I think we are making a decision we're going to uh recommend to the zoning to issue the violation um the other thing was the OD Hall um did we contacted them okay I'm going to contact them I can send something to the owner I can do that okay so uh let me ask for all of y'all's feedback on this um so we had some um neighbor complaints um about the folks at the Oddfellows Hall um who um I guess they're having problems with water getting into their basement um and what they did was they dug up the vegetation around the Oddfellows Hall and they installed these um sort of tin window wells window wells yeah they don't we were never consulted about that um you very clearly can see them from the street um I'm not a historic window well expert um I'm sorry there weren't any window wells there before I guess I don't know must have been they never put in must there must something there was a driveway B windows but I mean they would have probably been out of brick or something right like rectangular rectangular brick Wells yeah but the problem is that they did this work and I mean we didn't even get to hear their story you know about what was like how they came to the decision to do to take out whatever had been there or if maybe nothing had been there and then they put in the metal and you know I'm not so sure that this metal is really conducive to our streetcape stuff and that was a driveway and it doesn't look like you can get a car down there now with the window wells deep that they don't allow dve well and who's complaining about the water infiltration the neighbors I think the reason that the the owner of the building did this was because they were having water getting into having water okay um so so I guess yeah so I guess the question it sounds to me like we all agree this is something we should like probably ask the owner to come in and speak with us about this um just so we can understand what's going on and maybe the material needs to be replaced to something more conducive to the streetcape I don't know um or maybe you know when we hear the story of what happened we're comfortable with it because we don't I think what guide mentioned because houses around me they have because I my house next to me is right on the driveway and they have brick rectangular window wells that are almost flush there could be other why the water is getting in maybe they're not cleaning the gun yeah I don't could be or or that driveway needs to have more of a slope to it to run I I have window wells and I don't get water in my basement there's nothing guarding or they did have a assessment done and it was determined that's the reason but we don't know yeah so could we contact come in of the home I don't have any other contact but their address so I'm going have to actually mail them a letter and let them know the certificate of approval process and it's required okay any Renovations like that visible from the street need to be approved or discussed we talked to them though didn't they when they were doing like the the when the library was going in there that was years ago we did the sign Library people as opposed to owners this is the Oddfellows Hall in North Main Street all right so maybe in the meantime we can all kind of individually do a little research on window wells and what we what good looks like um because yeah not my thing um okay all right good can I add another new business item yes please um do we need to do our yearend goals or goals for 2025 or is it not time yet do it next year you do it in January meeting because I need it by March I believe usually give it by March so okay okay so maybe what we can do is um the other part of homework for us all is to um um think about our goals so in our next meeting we'll go through goals for 2020 okay all right good okay so next we have on the agenda the amendments to the historic district um and buffer zone and I think um since our last meeting um we met with the planning board Brendan actually did an amazing job explaining everything he was he's their Golden Child now they loved him he he's he's fantastic they I think they were on board with what we were looking to do um they you know Brendan had a you know the rationale for everything and I think having that the companion document was really helpful for them to see everything um you know um so I think all in all it was really good Brendon do you have any other takeaways from that meeting no um is our next step to having new draft Amendment written no The Next Step would be to have a public hearing we have to go through the designation process now that new properties added so we're going through that process and then the new Master Plan Amendment right after the public hearing okay so that is I appreciate that Robin can I I would just like to um if we could uh I want to type this all in to my master plan here so we have it all laid out um so next step is public hearing and then to prepare for that what is it involved over to the planning board the recommendations from the HPC so they can include that into their Master BL Amendment I'm sorry before we do the public hearing though the public hearing we um we send out letters to everybody again yep and then we just sort of go through again what we talked about before M and then then okay and so then we have another meeting with planning board and that's where they decide if it's they vote to exact um decide that Amendment to the it's consistent no it's just voting on the master plan vote to decide to decide on master plan does anybody from the planning board would they be at our meet our public meeting since it sounds like they're on board now for the contiguous historic district we expanding it so it's contiguous so that's what we're that's our goal yeah so I think the public it would be nice for them to know that the planning board is on board you know with that thought so just one member from the planning board was here at our public meeting just a backup is that a special meeting or part of a regularly scheduled it could be part of regular schedu okay good okay so we could technically do that in January yes okay a lot of work for you okay I'm just trying to lay out all the steps and try to B his months and try to figure out how long this whole thing is going to take okay so there's voting planning board voting decided master plan and that goes to the TC then TC and that's where they they vote on they introduce the adoption of the designated properties then back to the planning board that's where they find it consistent with the master plan which they should since they you find a consistent with the master plan and then back to the TC to finalize and then it's all said and done see to finalize okay all right that is fantastic okay um so what um is needed let's talk about what's needed for each step um because I know that you know it's not just um like we have the the ordinance that we had had already done out with Liz right um is there any other what other information needs to be included so for this first public hearing that we have do we have everything that we need with the the ordinance and Brendan's companion document where are we with that Brendon with the ordinance I don't know if there's been any advancements with that that can go in any time what was a if there's been what's the question if you've had any advancements on the ordinance if anything's been finalized to the TC yeah so the ordinance that I drafted in my note is the furthest along um I there's been nothing further from the planner or anyone else than what's in that draft okay so let me as the planner what's going on with that drafted by HPC so that's actually our next step it needs to be incorporated well from what I remember in the planning board meeting the ordinance won't be in the master plan Amendment it would just be that the amendment would have some language encouraging that this change these sorts of changes be made to the ordinance and so so we don't have to have it I think they want all of it all together and like remember they were also asking about the guidelines they want they want us to update our guidelines for the homeowner guidelines document that we have because it actually like has some old language in there that we don't really even use anymore um they want I think from what I heard they want it all done kind of together in one packet right updating the guidelines is going to take a while that's not something we could do in the next two or three months yeah well if the goal for this is 2025 then it's it could be some you know sometime some 2025 so that sounds like a big chunk is the the uh homeowner guidelines yeah and it might need to be something that we do sort of in parallel with um all this other stuff since it's if it's going to be a lot of work maybe what we explain is like you know for the first public hearing we explain that we we kicked off the project and we're you know working on updating it but it you know it's going to all come together probably by the time we get this whole process finalized but we might have to have like a couple of um timelines going on um because of the amount of work in the updating the guidelines yeah may maybe if it's appropriate in the guidelines I'm just thinking there's a number of homes that are not historic in nature but they're included in the in the addition to the yes Village historic district and I think we had some feedback from that meeting that we had uh those were those homeowners came to the meeting to express their concerns what would our role be and any Renovations that they would have so maybe the guidelines would address homes from the you know 50s and 60s or whatever I think you know how how would we that was so we have that in the in in the document but in theer we need to visually show it in the homeowner guidelines yes um one thing we did though discuss I I was pretty firm about how um some of the homeowner feedback we had was that they they want to know every single detail of what they can and can't do and you know when we saw that Allentown document that was 100 pages I don't think that those homeowners are really realize what they're asking for um and so I think that the way we do our guidelines is we kind of do like the cliff notes because we're cranberry and we're smaller and we have like the main buckets covered but we're not going to go into specific details about like you know as detailed of crazy 100 Pages as Allentown like I think our document is like like and I think we do over the years I think we do want to promote that we want to work with each homeowner exactly to come up with the most appropriate because if you're too prescriptive yeah then that's it it's cut and dry and I think that the home owners will get even angrier yes so that's why I don't want you know feedback from one person to end up angering making angry like the rest of the neighborhood um because that's not the point we're not trying to become a a Colonial Williamsburg no not at all this is a living community uh keeps moving forward and we want to work with the existing homeowners new homeowners to uh make it work okay so I think that what we can do is I'm gonna kind of map this out in a timeline for us that's why I'm trying to capture this information like by month so we can kind of see how these different things that need to be done will kind of come together so that we can finish it and also it'll it won't offut what we have going on that requires so many steps because we can explain to planning board for example like we're updating the homeowner guidelines but that project won't be done until like November you know because that involves this this and this you know um so um we have Jennifer sorry um and when when we're planning the amount of time that the design guidelines might take um maybe something we could consider is starting with we don't have to call it a public hearing per say but I would like if we could hear from the public about what they think about the design guidelines where where where does it work well or what they would like to see changed what about a survey on our website as opposed to having people come in and sure that could work um and then even couple with is there are some architects who have come before the commission uh repeatedly if we could have a small committee from this Commission interface with those Architects it doesn't even have to be in a meeting but interview them and get their input on what works well and what doesn't work well and so that if if we could collect that feedback from the public and from The Architects before we then Engage The professionals we can then present the professionals um here are the changes here's how we want to change the design guidelines can you help us make those changes so it it will take some time to do to collect all that feedback yeah you reminded me about because there was a gentleman on the planning board that said that um you know he's you know worked within our guidelines and everything and he had a few suggestions um so I think to your point Brandon I love that idea I think we should make that like the first action item of this whole project is like collecting feedback and maybe to your point what we do is we start off with either or both we could do a survey on our website or um create a survey monkey or something and then we could have like a a little Committee of like um architects in town maybe folks that have done multiple applications recently uh that do a lot of work in town to kind of collect their feedback um okay that's great um I'm just going to make some notes Here I have survey and then architect okay um so one thing I just want to make sure I understand is there's there's the ordinance and then there's the amendment right and they're two different things okay so the ordinance is drafted but that has to get Incorporated by list into what exactly the the ordinance the ordinance I'm not sure if Li would do that or we have the TC Township attorney does that okay okay attorney someone okay TBT that's fine okay um and then the public hearing though is in is on the public hearing for that we would have would be on the amendment and the ordinance it's the amendment to the historic district district boundaries okay I'm just want to make sure I'm really specific here because I think a lot of us are getting confused in fact like one thing that happened we think with the last planning board the first planning board meeting is that people were confused about what they were actually looking at and I'm I'm confused so if I'm confused then yeah that's that's not good um okay so for the planning board they would vote to decide on the master plan that would be the amendment right and then TC would be introducing the doctrine of designated properties that is the ordinance right okay planning board voting to if the ordinance is consistent with the master plan vote ordinance okay and then TC to finalize the ordinance and the amendment to or the amendment done once board does it okay fin the ordinance okay all right so um okay for Town committee for the fourth step Town committee introducing the doctor and designated properties so one thing that we were talking about is the fact that we have um additional properties that we hadn't surveyed before under Richard grub that are now um kind of falling within this cohesive District um and so a question would be do we need to hire an expert to do these properties um and ones that were just surveyed we need what's that the ones that were just surveyed which ones the additional homes that weren't surveyed that we're looking to include in this um oh yes area yes because you need to hire somebody to do the the survey so it can be uploaded into the state database how many properties I forget how many were we adding 22 two 22 222 okay so that's 22 plus the farmhouses were we thinking of having those all surveyed too if we go for a CLG grant for example possibly yes that would be like a separate yeah separate F that would be this would be one piece of it and I guess the CLG Grant we could we could survey survey survey and surve but but the difference with the farm or the houses outside the village District I was asking Robin before the meeting like simple thing like drafting the letter homeowner notification it's a little it's going to be different because we really would like to get on the proper closer to get a better view of the of the uh the build the structure and that would require permission from the owner whereas prior surveys everything was from the street we're standing on the street it's we're not going on your property okay so this is kind of again I'm I'm envisioning this Gan chart with all these different like things that are all kind of coming together and we have interdependencies still a survey we could have a a you know company such as Richard grub yeah do the surveys but as far as putting it together in a CG Grant I Envision it couple you know a would be these 22 additional properties within the village historic D District expansion MH and then historic properties outside of the The Village so be two parts to the CG and what is what is the quantity that we ended up with for the outline properties office 40 some or just about 50 yeah 49 I mean the two surveys that we did for the historic district were over a 100 each yes so just like 20 $5,000 yeah we got all that done for yeah it's pretty good although we did the picture taking to you know reduce the cost but yes but that's when the limit was 25,000 now the limit is per town it's 50,000 or under just under 50,000 so we do have more leeway I think if we lump them together to at least have the surveys completed it'll give us kind of the raw material to proceed with what we want to do as opposed to waiting you know another whole year before and I don't know we might be able I don't know if we have to with the um TC doctrine of designated properties I don't know if they have to be totally do they have to be totally surveyed or could they be say we could say we just got CG grant money Richard grub is kicking off the project they will be surveyed like does that do they have to be surveyed for them to be included in the ordinance to to be designated going to my understanding the Chapter 93 is that we're going to need a description of them so the two three page property reports isn't necessary for them but if you look at the original District nomination each property has a couple sentences written about it and that that is the inventory of the district and so my understanding according to Chapter 93 would be you need to have a couple sentences written about each property that would be designated not a full property report from an intensive level architectural okay I'm just going to make a note of this because this is something that we could technically do then possibly high level um okay we just need a couple of sentences about each property okay okay all right so this is good so um then we have the planning board okay so I have this all laid out and I'm what I'm going to do is I'm going to try to look at uh a calendar and try to figure out how to phase this into like a Gant chart and do the same thing with um updating the homeowner guide design guidelines kind of at the same time and then the then what I think is the CLG Grant is also is is sort of the third thing that will get done kind of all in parallel and the CLG grant for this coming year they instead of the January 20th or something yeah January 20th but now no that was in years past this year it's or this coming year it's going to be February 20th or something okay like third week in February so my question is do you you're our expert in CLG Grant well I can uh I can work with Lori like I did last time and we we can map it out can you do you think you could put that together by the 20th like um 20th of what February yeah that's that's the deadline that's what we have to work with that's I'll work I'll work with Lori and see what you know I nominate you Dave um thank you I think that would be awesome now we if they approve it thank you when do we get we they usually hear do we normally hear back it's it's a long time because it doesn't if what gets approved then we um let's make us the Assumption later in the year they award and then the money actually has to actually be released by the state and there's you won't be doing anything until 2026 okay right I think or late 25 yeah I think it's yeah but it's something late in 2025 you get they work on the document that the township has assigned you know the whole thing and then they release the money the monies in early 2026 and then we can start getting then you have to hurry up and get everything done in three months yeah and everything has to be done by September 30th okay I'm I'm taking this down bids But It's tricky because it's the this 2025 year you're working with with the state but it doesn't really happen until 2026 September 2026 September 30th 2026 is when good times that survey would be completed okay all right I'm taking this all down um okay good all right so yeah it sounds like I'm glad to hear that in order for us to continue with this seems like such a simple task of implementing what we've been working on for the past six years um it's not simple that it's so not simple and that um just the part of surveying is it's not necessarily though going to be the bottleneck which is but you got to realize too this we're working on the the 2019 2020 master plan guideline the update yeah Master plans are done every 10 years I know by the time we do this one the next one won't be happening right but I mean we've gotten a lot done already and we're not even at you know we're just approaching 2025 so true keep it in perspective just because it's been updated in the 2020 master plan doesn't mean it has to be implemented you know in a couple of years you have depending on well other things we're working on okay so I think we're doing a great you know okay good job making a lot of progress toward what we what we're aiming for so maybe what we could do is let's follow up on the ordinance that we drafted um to see who works on the next step with that whether it's Liz or the attorney well sorry then the question then is whether to proceed with just the separation of contributing and non-contributing design guidelines as drafted or is it going to actually be incorporating other changes following all the feedback from public and Architects we wanted it's not that I thought it wasn't so detailed though in the ordinance like um as the design guidelines it was more high level and then the design guidelines go into like the details around it when I was using design guidelines there I was I was actually referring to the design guidelines in the ordinance and it's kind of confusing because we have like a PDF called design guidelines yeah but also in Chapter 93 they are referred to as design guidelines okay so I think the priority would be getting the ordinance the language in the ordinance the way we want it not so much the pretty PDF as nice as it would be to present a more upd to date and better PDF I think I think the the legal aspect the ordinance is the priority here okay so here's what I was would I suggest then it's I think that maybe what we could all do is do a little homework um and for our next meeting let's have a working session where we look at the details of that language um and figure out how we're going to collect feedback on it um so that when we're ready um we can collect the feedback and then we have the public hearing right what do you think doesn't have to be alongside the public hearing on the master plan amendment I no there's they kind of two topics in terms of what property should be in amendment to boundaries how could we improve the ordinance Okay so one thing will be the working session on the ordinance and feedback but then to your point we could start working we could con concurrently work on having the public hearing on the amendment to The District bounties we could do that as soon as January February and keep moving that forward while we're working on the ordinance yeah the the public hearing and the planning board voting on the master plan Amendment because it seems like the bottleneck is the well I don't know they planning board might still say even if they're voting on the master plan Amendment are they going to say we still want to see what you're doing with the ordinance to approve that my impression was they want to see the master plan Amendment mention that the ordinance should be updated yeah and guide in the way in which it should be updated but not actually have the ordinance written as part of that okay okay so then we can move that forward in the early part of next year okay um okay so does anyone have any other ideas or or feedback on how we um approach this um ordinance that we're working on should we look at the language first and make sure we're all familiar with it what it's being drafted to say and then we look at it and try to decide on where how we want to collect feedback um or do we want to start collecting feedback and then kind of have it feed into the ordinance I think um we should familiarize ourselves with the language okay I think the language that is contained the ordinance will ultimately guide how the visual guidelines are organized so if we have that in mind and if we want to be kind of distinguishing between contributing and non-contributing you know features and buildings and structures so start with the words and then that will inform the visuals y yeah I I agree and also possibly there's any elements of the existing ordinance that we feel are no longer appropriate or should be eliminated I think in the ordinance I think Brandon you reference made a reference to color SK which we've never we've never dictated color strike that we don't have a list of recommended colors yeah for homes and stuff so that's that's easy you can just but there were things I saw like in the Allentown one for example um about uh panel solar panels and and uh you know synthetic materials and um neon well we mentioned synthetic materials too but but that's also been updated in the department Department of interior speaking of that did anyone listen to the um the webinar that no I hav CH I did and I I recommend it it was very interesting because they're really talking about how substitute materials it's it's very Case by case and you know you can't just like blanket say no vinyl ever or something and there's so many different new materials available so it I think it really is worth looking at would you be able to send that out to us so we could all I think it was sent out already Robin out last month yeah last month what was it called uh substitute materials is by the napc right National Association of commiss okay okay good the 2010 master plan has a sentence in it uh the HPC should also consider updating the design guidelines listed in Chapter 93 historic preservation of the township code to address the use of renewable energy resources so this has been we've been tasked with this now for 14 years so we should we should include that as part of our discussion okay so thank you very much too many emails um so I think for our next meeting let's let's spend some time looking at these doc me know maybe we can do is we can collect them and put them in the packet we can all kind of relook at each document together go through here's what this is here's what this is here's what this is um and you know look at what we have look at where we might want to collect feedback um and then at the same time I think we could concurrently plan to have this um public hearing on the district boundaries maybe we just wait till February since it's it's work for you and you deserve a holiday um and you know eventually I will I'll take this back and make a Gant chart for us I think it's going to help us stay on task and I think we might need you know we're I'm already seeing like maybe some little like committees that we can subgroups we can do we have like the CLG folks we have like the folks doing the design guidelines the folks doing this whole you know back and forth with you know TC public hearing you know that type of thing so we can maybe try to divide up some of the work because it is it's a lot and we're kind of adding to it now because the initiative around the farmhouses is now going to get folded into the CLG Grant project so exciting stuff okay and you guys have any other comments or questions about this okay all right we are in okay we have a great plan um okay the next item we have is we talked about the CG Grant we have library books there any updates on the library books um I ordered my suggested book The Illustrated dictionary yes okay so I think we have what like $54 left of 50 yep does anyone else have any other ideas or suggestions of how we would spend that money okay another children's book you did that before right I know there is like Jackie how Jackie saved Penn State um Grand Central Station that's a good one that's the other L yeah get paperback so it's cheaper I know those the two best ones yeah I'll check and see have Jackie saved because they were going to demo that you realize um saved Grand Central someone argue Mount Vernon started I'm sure there's a book about that too all right my uh phone isn't working um so um oh wait hold on here no it's not my I it's not working but I will research it and see if we can afford it we can go ahead and purchase it um okay how Jackie saved okay awesome um okay next we have um signage any updates I have none no this is signage regarding what street signs or what yeah the street signs the gateways the all of that I after our meeting last month I sent you an email I saw your note and I I I wrote a note back to that homeowner okay so let me case Clos but yeah ahead because we have our TC rep here um so I thought about that a after afterwards and um thank you I think personally it would be advantageous or a good idea for the the TC to leverage all the work Jennifer's done with getting the street signs replaced in the historic district there's a template now seems we're getting good feedback people like these signs and what really hit and so as street signs outside the historic village historic district need to be replaced if there was a plan this is what we're going to do and just along the same look but without the historic district Insignia up on on top um because what hit home coming from Plainsboro on Plainsboro Road as soon as you start hitting the the house the new sign came up yeah the historic cranber everybody's part of historic cranberry whether you live in Shadow Oaks Cranberry green whatever yeah so I think it it goes a long way to bring the town together even though I don't live in the historic district District I'm part of historic Cranbury and street signs going forward will sort of incorporate that look and feel that's that's what came to me so um Lisa do you think there's like uh any appetite from town committee to invest in something like this like to raise our property values make us look a little more like highend think you'd start from the out yeah and if you're going to do that to me that's an allive Branch to the members of our community that live the furthest from the district so that we are trying to be as inclusive as possible because I think there's a general feeling that if you're off of Main Street but certainly if you're on the other side of like 130 that you don't feel a general connection to histor Cranberry not District cranberry so I would first say that start out and move your way in I'd say to figure out if there's an appetite it comes down to like the cost of inventory so just in the amount that we did in the district how many signs are we talking about outside the district that need to be replaced and is the removal of that circle enough to discern like we all know it because we're close to it but if you did a flash screen of a sign with that circle and a sign a flash sign of a sign up without that Circle and you had to take the stand would you be able to tell the difference so is that enough of well it does help desate did the district verus totalar that's my initial it does designate the historic district though yeah so I and and it would be a simpler probably less costly sign just to have a black and white Des that's the street so it's sort of the same look and feel but when you get closer to the historic Center then you see the historic district Des figure how many signs we're dealing with but it could be just an ongoing thing as signs age out and they get damaged or whatever okay we have a plan they're going to start looking similar to the other s new signs that are in but it's not like we're we're doing it now and we're replacing decent signs I meaning Ming and as we go through that good ide Shadows is on the list for25 for to be doing miling and Paving work so is that the right time to look at all the other Aesthetics not just the road but the street signs the street lights well that's Township Council through those but it's a I think goes a long way if you count GC this is our this is our plan we saw what what uh we did in the what HPC helped do in the historic district we're in historic cranbery this is our plan going forward coincides with repaving or signs get damaged this is what we're putting out and the work's already been done she has the you know the contractor you know how much they cost difference between well I'm sure you have it we don't have to you know figure it out here but I'm sure you've got the black and white sign without the cirle yeah they sell one it's it looks yeah it doesn't have they have one that looks very similar to what we have it just doesn't have the circle remember all that yeah all yeah we could have I mean we would just need to you know go on Google Maps and count how many intersections there are and to get a rough count and we could do an estimate without even contacting the vendor because we know how much they cost well I wouldn't ask you guys to do that someone would need to like yeah exactly someone would need to just figure out how many intersections um and then we know the price I mean all it was pretty standard and they're so much more visible these new signs they stand out they just make it look more high end I feel like compared to the green ones you know in Princeton everything's an evolution right yeah yeah yeah you so love the idea making it you know but I also like the idea of starting out and working our way yeah um I had sent you a note Jennifer to revise your budget for 2026 for 2025 just add a little bit of just in case of these beautiful new signs and it gets knocked down and we need to order another one and should go through you guys just so that we have integrity of the sign and all that so did were we able to add that to it know about it oh sorry would you be able to add um another $500 to our budget for I guess broken street signs I spoke with Denise about it okay so she was expecting a revised budget and it's specifically for district um sign replacement so if something happens like you've got it in there or like just in Cas like the homeowner that talked to you about the street AC if we had figured out that it made sense then we would have been able to do it a different criteria change criteria you want to add one you at least have the money in there as a buffer if not you don't use it okay perfect but I really like that idea David so I'll try to summarize what we talked about okay thank bring that up at it'll be the January 13th meeting I'll type it up send it to everybody else but if we could just have a little dialogue about it on January 13 think great okay thank you um so we have um if unless we have any more comments on signage the next item we have on our agenda is the Certificate of Eligibility for National register uh for the Hamlet I don't have anything specific to that but I have some I have a comment that was brought to my attention about the Hamlet um a concerned citizen mentioned to me that on Google Maps which I'm looking at right now there is a statement that is tagged to the cranberry uh Freight station I'd like to read it to you um because it was there was a concern um the statement says uh let's see if I have to read the whole thing um it was a time capsule of Life a century ago an agrarian train depot the size of a small town comprised of warehouses commercial buildings grain processing Etc Frozen in time um it was raised in 2023 no doubt to build another modern Warehouse which will lower property values where houses start at $750,000 the corrupt decision to destroy this slice of American History was was made during the pandemic so no public input was allowed so that is like so untrue on so many ways and so the question is and it may not be you know hpc's role but uh is there value in adding maybe to HPC website kind of a status of the Hamlet um for some way to provide information that's the question it's kind of a question for you I would think so to avoid any confusion it would be [Music] beneficial right you think it would have any effect it's a it's a it puts things in context so that if you if somebody piles on an inaccurate comment like that then you've clarified it directly address another point of reference that some people can go to yeah any further questions here's the website but this at least stops that there's a pylon you can say we've documented for status so you can go and right this way don't have to address it on you're indirectly addressing so are you thinking like of like like a page off of our website sort of like about the CR cranberry station Hamlet where we talk about the history and then we explain you know the Hamlet or the Chamberlin and Barkley property was sold it wasn't protected you know it was demolished under you know primary guidelines um yeah I think like writing something out like that I mean I think people are always going to try to haters are always going to try to say oh yeah HPC grouped that they did you know but it comes in the wake of several comments over the last couple months that we've had to deflect so I do a lot like a timeline yeah and then this way you're just you're giving a historical look at the history of the H and you're not directly addressing who authorized what or anything and you just give a chronolog you know theoy rail you know what I mean and then you know it it was the depot has been saved right now currently but but it should also be made clear that a portion of the Hamlet is not in Cranberry cor yes we're not responsible for Monroe Monroe I would take it from a historical timeline perspective so you're kind of indect right I think what's nice about what you're proposing is that our website the township website already has a lot about the history of the historic district it has a page about the history of this building wherein now I don't think it really talks about the history of the Hamlet and so I think that would help provide a more complete picture that' be maybe maybe the history of like the school building would be a kind of a basis maybe to create whatever we talking okay wait so I'm sorry the school building there's there's a this this there's a page on the township website that describes the history of this building the this the old school building that is now building where where is that is it in the HPC page no it's not in the HPC page yeah okay so it's about the the building somewhere it has a it's a history of the building yes I think cranberry school is I think what it's called isn't it it could be that could be Municipal Building as the header I forget how they titled the page oh I see here it is history of town hall okay scenes of cranberry oh yes I've been here where they have like the really old pictures um pictures of the water tower so you're thinking we maybe we add a history of the cranberry station Hamlet like here in the off of this section yeah I love that yeah with a timeline with a timeline do you have it in you to draft something yes I'm willing to okay take a stab at it okay cool um all right great that would be a nice thing for our public Outreach too once we have it done um history of H page website okay great um as far as the designating for the national register um I have something about reaching out and getting a template from bordon town um so do you know does this bring a ball at all yeah um I met a gentleman at the state conference who uh said he had gotten a designation of a portion of the railroad in bordon town but I I did try to track him down and follow up on it and I I couldn't I couldn't find any proof that that had actually happened that there was actually a designation um so that's kind of where it stopped oh so bordon town is not on the bord town um cway was not anywhere designated on the national it was a specif uh well it's part of that whole like multi District eligibility District but uh this was a specific portion he had been talking about and I just I couldn't find any public information about what they were talking about so then are we back to like going back into this and doing SE sections I'm sorry no you can't see what I'm looking at but that application that is that we had done and we were looking at the document that uh Andrea and Katherine had sent out with like the specific list of of kind of missing information that we needed to provide so it's it's less formal than that application document okay [Music] um that was that was really simp it was just this period of significance right no that was the first Stu there were a bunch other stuff I I'll take okay all right um to follow up I feel bad because this kind of kind of fell to the Wayside a little bit since we were working on the other stuff I don't want us to forget about it because I know it's still like an important it was one of our goals for the year um okay all right so identifying designated historic sites we talked a little bit about um the farmhouses for the CLG Grant are there any other action items that we have regarding you know the pictures still working on that with the putting the pict pictures together and Brandon uh provided some information on two properties uh that were part of the master plan um previously that said they were demolished and we think one was The Farmstead and one was um where the general healing spies yes so we have I do some more research but I as I was telling Brandon before the meeting uh that demolished designation I think when Stephen gilano and I was working on the updates to the 2020 master plan we just took that list of farm and that they said they were demolished so that's what we worked on so why wouldn't it be true yeah so so I'll do some more research in that and one other house on uh 73 Old Trenton Road uh I know I took pictures of it I think I just left it off the list so I that so I'm working on getting the pictures incorporated into the the spreadsheet but that'll be uh document that I'll need for the CLG Grant so feel like we really should we have like a handful of properties that we could very easily make a a list of most endangered properties in Cranberry it's so easy well 147 Plainsboro Road that's the one is one of the top ones right there yeah I think that one and then also the gentle healing spot I I don't like how that building has been sitting there like that I know they ripped the ivy off the front but it's still like the front porch looks really bad right now um and I it's and again the township does have a maintenance code and especially if a property is not occupied what is the owner doing to M maintain it yeah I it's for the whole Township historic district or not or a historic home or not it's for the whole Township M I do think it would be I mean I don't know something to think on is you know as a as a committee I mean they do it in other towns almost every other major town has a list of most endangered properties we don't need to have 20 but we could have five no there's there's probably less than five What towns have list of endangered properties what's that yes Which towns have lists of endangered properties they have them one for New Jersey they have one I know in my mom's town oh yeah yeah I haven't seen them townwide I've seen the New Jersey ones and there's a national list as well is there there's a national list oh yeah okay let me look and see what other towns have done to your point and make sure it's not just my mom's Town your mom's Town isyl yeah list of endangered properties okay all right awesome um okay public Outreach I think we really completed all of our um planned Communications for the year um are there any updates on the interactive map Brendon only that I did hear back from the state and they said to proceed as if uh 61 North Main Street and the fire Museum and the current Firehouse have never been surveyed so they definitely should to add that to our CLG Grant oops right under our noses all these years right it's crazy um okay that's great um student uh volunteer for the commission updates on that any so I updated I updated the language and I sent that over I don't know I don't know what the next steps are in terms of TC doing something or someone else doing something so I spoke with Denise and she stated that the municipal Alliance has a student that comes in that sits on that side and if the HPC would like that to happen that's definitely possible without having to do resolution without having to do an ordinance just an as an observer and they can yeah and they can chime in when necessary yes but then if you want it permanent then it would have to be an ordinance well we should start with that that's a good starting point yeah yeah yeah yeah see if we get interest if nobody's interested in coming then it's if it's just an observer would it still count for like their volunteer hours so there's an incentive for them to join us I can ask I would think so I'm sure they would get credit for it yeah yeah one of us probably chair would be responsible for approving it with the um the high school see well yeah and if they're looking for hours they could um go look at Google Street View and find all the street signs and build that list because that might be a few hours if they're looking for some hours every every street corner Eagle Scout so what's uh what's the Next Step then to go back to the high school to oh no to post it I think on the website get yeah we could do a communication um in the mayor's email rate um if the updated language if we could do it as a communication on we can make it into a flyer and um post it onto the mayor's email and on the website and see if we have any interest and what about where students would be looking for volunteer opportunities um like in their guidance counselors I was thinking if we're doing a poster or something that we could send to the whatever offices mayor's Outreach I have a um a contact at the high school because um yeah I have the the contact because I had reached out to them on behalf of chips um because they also have like Vol student volunteers and um I don't know I didn't get them warmest of response maybe because it was a summertime um but I can take that flyer we can send it over and see what the high school has to say appr Lumar really they told me something about it needs to be 50 hours a year it needs to have this this and this and I was just like okay it's total of 50 hours that the student has to complete but it doesn't have to be one what they do is you it to them then they will send an email out um saying there's an opportunity so like sare to do this there's this here there's this there they OPP out parents yeah I'll find was able to get the luminaries and set that up as a community event to account toward community service that's awesome so I think documenting the street science would give a good 50 hours well just coming to this meeting 12 times a year will be be half of that that's funny um cool so um it sounds like um we've got a plan um and so gu if you wouldn't mind sending me the language I can make a little flyer in can yeah cool um okay the next item is Revolution neur are there any updates on that okay um training any training i i attended to the substitute materials substitute materials highly recommended and new homeowner letters um I sent one to sorry I believe it was no remember it's five Maplewood Avenue um minutes we have the minutes from our last meeting had amendments from Mr Sabo and Mr upd okay all right I'll make a motion to approve the minutes second okay all right roll call Miss Meer yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes thank you motion discussion I have something and back to Lisa C Council so walking into this building tonight as prior meetings the front doors of this building are atrocious so what good workout are we doing about it I mean the old doors were taken out I don't know how many years ago new ones these new ones put in these look horrible so in effort for for sustainability I I I don't want it I hope not they get so bad that they have to be ripped out and replaced with something else again so I mean they should have been revarnished every couple of years and it would they would look fine so now I don't know if they're so bad just paint them or what what's this is like our front door here to the to walk looking down Schoolhouse Lane it's just they're getting worse and worse Firehouse the same thing I think they were place about this the new Firehouse the door the new Fire the the doors are the same style you know the the lighter wood varnished and they're just deteriorating sear I know it's separate it's on got a new roof on the but I don't know building main okay I'm just proposing it to you because it's just been going abolutely it just again it just in my mind the day two part like okay new doors were put in what's the maintenance every couple of years getting it refreshed so you don't have to replace them do know oh I don't know 10 15 years ago it's been it's been a while okay yeah I just a refence but I don't think anything's ever been done to them and I have my all my exterior doors are varnished and I just simply lightly s it every year every other year and new coat of varnish on and that's been 35 years and they've been fine so I know it it's it's relatively easy to do when you let it go this far I don't know sanding it and you probably have to stain it darker you're not going to get that light wood back or paint paint them I mean they did that with the post office it was the same type it was varnished Lightwood and they're they're painted now because they got so bad but I again just to for 2025 maybe we can get that yeah sure no I understand obviously there hasn't been for the door those doors no main it so anyway think open anyway that that's that's all I wanted to say okay all right great uh public comment any public comment no okay then um adjourn make a motion to adjourn I'll motion to adjourn second say happy Holidays happy New Year thank you Robin