##VIDEO ID:NxZFQrSjmZ4## all right this historic preservation Commission meeting is being held on November 19th 2024 at 7:00 p.m. statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice and accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 4 hyphen 6 was provided on February 1st 2024 of this meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranber press in TR times posted on the township bulletin board and mailed to those requesting personal notice and file with the municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours please miss sumeer here um 10 right Mr Ryan uh here four and a half Mr Guyer here two hours in addition of the meeting Mr H here uh 55 hours M it's a fulltime job I am my like Miss Marlo five hours thank you Mr Sabo 15 hours thank you and Miss valini here three thank you all right looks like Miss can the town is here right we have a COR all right so welcome everyone um we have such an exciting meeting this is probably like the event of the season for historic preservation um so we'll start with our applications um our folks uh number one Prospect Street have somewhere else to be so we are going to start with them um on number one Prospect Street pardon I'm sorry oh I'm sorry 18 South Main pardon me so welcome if you guys could say your name and then tell us a little bit about your project that would be great yeah a little uh if you hit want to hit red when it's red it works there you go no only oh there we go there we go I'm Richard Schroeder I'm an architect in Cranberry New Jersey and I'm here to talk about the screen porch a porch uh on this residence it's a uh we're adding on 511 square foot onto the souths side and the west side of the house and 3 and 95 square foot is actually screened in it's going to be a a membrane over the sloped rigid uh the sloped roof it's going to be a very shallow roof because of a window on the second floor so we have to keep it kind of low so we're just going to do a a membrane roof on there and we're adding on to an existing patio um the the north side of the uh of the addition is going to be kind of lining up with the the brick patio on that side of the house and then walking in to a uh a double door going up two steps and then going into the double door into the screen part of the addition on the other side is a a walkway that brings you into the South side of the of the house and property on a brick paved walk and we're going to be linking up with that for the exit and entrance U into that side of the house under the open part of the Edition uh there's a a door going into the screen PCH at that part of the house where they link up if you want to uh do you want to say anything right now or okay um on the first drawing um is the showing house as it is and then where we're having the addition it's right across from the from the cranberry in I'm sure everybody knows that where the cranberry in is then we have a perspective view of it and that's on the North side and the west side then number two perspective view is um the west side and the south side then there's a little cross section of the of the porch going on to the pictures uh on the first drawing is the west side of the house and the north side showing where the patio is and um going down it's it's it's uh taking a look at the West Side totally then coming around to the South side where we're going to be attaching part of the overhang and the porch the other two pictures are the the front of the front of the existing house and then we added some pictures showing on the last page the Hedge which blocks a lot of the view of that from Main Street and then over to the right it's a little closer view of that one on the left at the bottom is the view from the cemetery and that's blocks most of the house there as well with the existing Hedges then the bottom one on the right that shows what you can really View of the house a small little opening there of the brick paved area going back to where we're going to add on to the house so that's basically the addition that we would like to put up really stupid question just because I'm not an architect okay is this I'm trying to Envision um this porch is going to be in the back it's not GNA be visible from the street correct it's correct it's in the back on the sort of an addition onto the ancillary part of the house that was already addition basically that's in the yes yes okay so it sort of lines up with that if you're walking straight ahead on that Brick Road yep you see you walk back toward the cemetery and there's like an ancillary back area yes and you're sort of doing the porch around that ancillary back area yes we are okay sorry to interrupt no that's fine uh are there any other questions does anyone have any questions um Mr Shredder yes uh the first floor plan drawing number four okay I just have a question about the note that says synthetic type decking yeah is that like an ASAC type of product is that it's a he's nodding yes okay yeah yeah it's it's it's something that you really don't have to deal with that is something we do approve so yeah that's okay okay thank you all right um any other questions or comments okay I would like to make a motion to approve this application second right roll call Miss stme yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Mara yes thank you motion pass thank you board thank you for coming in good luck with your project that was good thank you okay next so next we're going to do one Prospect Hi how are you good welcome looks like I'm flying solo tonight they didn't know if they could make it or not so okay um so so this project is Dan and Sharon's harbers they're doing a kitchen renovation on the back of their house it's um it's a you know beautiful 18 probably 1860s or so Circa uh house um at some point someone had lowered the ceiling in the kitchen uh and they put a smaller window uh on the north side of the kitchen um and then in the back they put two small casement windows in um because the property has such a beautiful view of the West over the fields and the and the sunset they'd like to put Windows across the back of the new kitchen uh and also um change the the north window to match the dining room window at the proper height so if they did this renovation raise the ceiling up the window would be very very low and and and kind of out of scale so this will uh kind of restore the the the original look um on the side as well as you know look better from the inside uh the five casement windows on the back though you won't see it from the street um follows has the same um light sizes glass glass light sizes as the uh four over four double hungs uh and then we'll give them a nice view over how looking the fields the um there's also some existing steps and little addition that used to go up to a second floor I think maybe it was an apartment way back when um they've since taken that staircase out and upstairs uh so part of this project is we're going to relocate the basement stairs to make the kitchen work um but make that it did make that uh sort of old apartment addition into a mudro because they have they have no mud room in the house um so adding a little bit of trim on the corners to make it look a little bit more appropriate um you know the the idea of this is to to do minor improvements to make it look better but knowing someday probably somebody will will tear it off and and do something bigger um bill that's on the North elevation that little bump out there yes okay yes and then we we show a an alternate um for replacing the door with a French door right now there's a dog a dog door and depending on the health of their dog they may or may not do it yeah fortunately the their dog has cancer so um but um they get approval now in terms of of the French The French Door it' be like a therat true smooth fiberglass St that could be painted look like wood um so that's the project not too much exterior work so just um the side door yes just so I understand you're um you're you're upgrading it basically and turning it you're replacing it into like a real like a nicer door yes add alternate it's it may or may not happen what's that it's an ad alternate it may or may not happen Okay depending on the dog yeah but even still like right now I it's just like a regular yes like yeah okay yeah sorry that picture didn't come out to too oh I just want to make sure it's a halflight door basically yeah yeah um and yeah that's so weird that they put that little window in the back yeah you can kind of so weird see at night time how out of scale it is with the other windows does anyone have any questions or comments yes so thank you for providing the information about the Marvin Elevate Windows could you talk to the commission about how they're similar to or different than the Anderson 400s that are more commonly used yep um I've used Anderson many times um they're they're cost Point um you know competitive sometimes they're less sometimes a little bit more but they're about they're Marvin is competitor to to the Anderson uh the big thing is that they're not vinyl clad they're they're fiberglass Extrusion which means you can paint them look more a little bit more like wood in my opinion than the vinyl clad which the vinyl clad you typically could have a lifespan of 20 to 30 years when you know till the UV starts breaking it down and and making it crack so it's same price point but I think a better window any other questions or comments oh I missed these I didn't see these in the back all right um so I mean I would I would make a motion to approve this I think it's going to be a nice project second second I roll call Miss sum yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and Miss Mar yes thank you motion passed thank you for everything thank for coming in good luck with your project thank you he St now you're doing you're up again okay that's great okay Park Place busy man it's my wife Michelle but she said she doesn't want to come up to the table um so I've been before the board uh before uh 20 some years trying to get the house done this is the last facade um but the um I if any remember in the past we had a twostory rear um porch designed um with a third story walk out as construction is more expensive everything's more expensive these days we cut down to one story with the walk out on the second floor and um added some French stories up in the attic which I think is all a good thing I think actually we like the design much better than the last design that we showed um so you know basically right now there's a three pieces three additions in the back of the house uh one is the lean to which is uh toward the north North End which is visible from Parkplace West we're going to keep that facade other than maybe cutting back the E Line a little bit to make it work with the proposed addition uh there's a pantry which is um kind of a lower flat roof which was um in between um two additions and then there's the rear porch which is the oldest piece um with the Dutch door um and kind of a little bit more interesting piece terms of detailing architectural detailing of some of the windows and and um which is what we're taking um cues of in terms of of how we're we're approaching the design of design of the new addition um back from when it was the Elms uh we have you know doors out the nowhere that used to be fire escapes um so the the new new design works with that as well um so I think probably the basically what we're doing is creating kind of mirroring the front porch to the back uh but it's an enclosed space um and uh making part of it solid which is the existing mud room to remain and then creating a new sun room eating area off the kitchen uh which is the addition part basically squaring off kind of what's there the if you look at uh drawing A4 yeah the bottom left hand drawing that's the the rear elevation facing the fields uh and my house and your [Laughter] house I'm just going to say it really sorry like I just want to tell you I'm editorially this is and probably shouldn't be saying this but I'm super excited about this I have a I have a balcony that we did an addition to in the back of our home and it's so fun to have a balcony so I'm super excited about this the sunsets in the in the fields yeah originally when we bought the house 2001 um all five of us lived in the Attic um but it was great because you felt like you were living in a treehouse you know the kids were very disappointed to move downstairs we were not we were all in one bedroom for many years so so I do apologize to all my neighbors because they've had to look at this but you know unfortunately being an architect I don't in your own house you don't want to do it until you do it right I think this is I love your rear elevation as as it is as it is but that's okay I understand um so the the lower you know front porch or rear porch piece kind of mimics the massing the height and The Columns of the front porch um it encapsulates part of the lean too in order to you know pull that off because of the the strong symmetry of the house uh the the double hung window to the right that's to the mudroom that will remain be reworked into the new wall uh everything to the left of that is the addition um if you can see it in the existing so the detailing of that double hung will be very similar to the detailing of of the wind of the window that we have now on the in the existing porch where there won't be trim around it the the vertical tongue uh tongue and groove uh V Grove will go right into the opening kind of more like some some Barn detailing U with an extended Sil with long horns the other windows are kind of more inspired um by the existing windows in the back which my drafter left off of the existing elevation but you can see them in the picture um there's you know a set of three over three um kind of storm windows uh with frames around them so we kind of took that idea to make the sun room uh but unfortunately that horizontal bar is right my line set eyesight so we moved it up to a transom height to align with the door um so that was kind of the inspiration taking taking ideas from the old um but making it work and to be functional um as a current space um we going to be doing um for the vertical siding I'm thinking that will probably be the ASAC uh because expansion and contraction is not a problem for that for all the trim and faes we would use the Boral or the poly as that's all painted but doesn't have the expansion and contraction problems um the railing uh the post again will be the poly as or the Boral duration whatever you want to call it and then the the railings would be a uh an ASAC you know railing system um spaning between them up on the second floor [Music] um calling out an ad alternate to replace those two doors um that are there they are new they were installed 20 years ago we might decide to keep them um so I put an alternate to change those uh with the same kind of therat Tru um smooth star you know that could be painted and um look like wood um in the center between those two doors there's a small little window um which again because of daylight into our uh into a little room there that's into the hallway uh we want to make it bigger and again the views um and then above that the existing right now there's a door out to Nowhere where the left window is the windows aren't symmetrical so getting rid of the door to Nowhere pushing the making the window pushing the left window symmetrical making room for the um you know a double door uh for for the view sorry sus the composition was interesting but um unfortunately does not take advantage of the views and you know off that side of the house also showing an ad alternate uh this is where the wind really blows off the fields so if there's any money left in the budget by the time you know we're once we've kind of figured all this out uh we we may end up taking the existing siding off and unfortunately there's bricks in the walls brick nogging so um putting a you know a thin um either a sheeting or or a small insulation board just really to block the wind um and then new siding unfortunately that might mean I might have to go to the Hardy plank so that's what I put in the application um just because of the thinness to maintain the the existing window trim and corner boards um so that's going to be something gonna kind of see as we go um the I think that's everything on the back um we the um the roofing is just going to be EPDM uh but but with half round aluminum gutters and aluminum drip edge so you don't see the EPDM and then there would be the uh interlocking wood tiles uh that would enable you to actually walk out onto it um so you none of that will be visible the on the elevation number four there's another door to Nowhere it's coming out of our mud room where the porch rotted off and finally putting a porch back so that we can get from our our um parking area directly into the mudro um that's a quick question what is this this that second little door next to the door that's the existing door down to the basement oh that goes the basement got it elevation 2 shows the side elevation looking uh you know facing south again mimicking the same design that I talked about on the back and then the other part of the project um previously we we showed we had a showed a concept drawing of doing a park a uh Garage in front of the post office we don't need any more square footage and the cost is just uh of construction has skyrocketed since the pandemic uh so we're going to do a a shed 12 X6 shed in the back corner by the garden for the lawnmower garden tools um so I included images you know of of the shed that we picked out out it's pre-fabricated it's actually built on site because it's actually steep Earth roof it's not something they can ship it's a you know much more expensive than your typical shed that you you see uh it will have a smooth trim will have real wood sash windows uh real sash U lights in the doors and carriage style doors as well and we're doing a metal roof with a little Cupa little venting Cupa and my wife did the 3D on this that's that's what we saw that we're going to purchase but we're going to do the the light green to kind of blend into the landscape but that's exactly the the structure okay I have a question sorry questions I've been dying to ask this question so the two uh the pair of doors on the second floor that flank that Center window yeah there like in the elevation drawing it shows a a decent Gap are those going to be used to step down onto your kind of second is that second floor like sorry is it is the porch on the first floor does it have a deck on it or is that just a roof that you're not going to access uh it won't be walk out um the existing not sure those are quite drawn right I think they're drawn a little bit High okay um because right now what we're proposing is that the structure aligns with the second floor those doors are about 12 inches up okay uh however um once I probably have at least two Ines of slope for the deck so I'll be around 10 might have to put a little step there or I have to actually lower them down kind of wait and see how it all okay but they will be used to access that okay that was it thank you okay any other questions comments hopefully this one gets fil um make a motion to approve yeah I would second that all right roll call Miss upmeier yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes Miss Marlo yes and Mr Sao Susan is being recused recused yes thank you motion passed all right thanks so much thank you very much enjoy your balony you good luck on the project looks great yeah thanks great decisions yeah thank you okay um okay next we'll go over minor applications ordinary maintenance and repair approvals we'll do all right so the following are the minor and ordering maintenance and repairs that have been approved since the last time I had listed them so we had HBC 22324 46 North Main Street a driveway was approved HBC 22424 139 North Main Street the driveway reconfiguration and the revised patio uh 22524 111 Sims Court was approved for a pool in the rear yard 2 26-24 50 North Main Street the siding was approved HBC 19223 15 Station Road they were approved for offense the reason why the number is low because they previously wanted to put in for final and then they switch it to wood fence uh HPC 22824 3 Westminster Place was approved for roof and HBC 229-244 6 North Main Street was also approved for a roof great all right perfect thank you Robin okay so uh next we will do new business um so first item is a memo that um was shared at our La one of the recent Town committee Township committee meetings um and it was written by the cranberry historical and preservation society and this memo is being shared with the HPC um so that um everyone is aware of the position uh from the cranberry historical and preservation Society um has everyone had a chance to review the memo yes okay are there any questions or is there any needed discussion on this um the the memo refers to the deed oh here it is okay I can see it now thank you will follow um I have not heard of Township committee when in the meeting there wasn't discussion of any followup the agenda just they didn't respond no yeah they didn't there wasn't any discussion um from them about a followup of any sort um Robin do you want to is was there any I know that the committe the memo was shared across certain committees in Township committee right is there any ref there's no reference to the um property maintenance code that we have is there I think the the one of the last paragraphs says that we request that the construction code official do an inspection make sure maintenance is being performed so I think that's that was one reference to but yeah excuse me the whole um that ordinance was to if the house house is not being lived in I don't think so the owner is supposed to provide to the township what their plans are to maintain it like getting the grass cut making the windows or you know there's no broken windows the side what are they going to be doing and the porch is is temporarily being H hel held up by like two by 10 or whatever so that's specific to the property maintenance ordinance that we have had for the past I don't know 10 years now it's been a while or the whole town of cran the whole town it doesn't matter if it's historic or not okay um so that provides the meat of you know in addition to what's in the deed um so there was a request for the construction official to um inspect the building um and maybe what we could do is um you know there's a communication about that maintenance code which I think the construction official is that also within their appr I believe that might be Jerry that's what your emailed to us and March said Jerry the construction official is well aware of what's going on he was provided the deed he went out to look at the the house make sure there was no demoing and there wasn't so he is well aware though of what's going on next TC but I can request that it be addressed any update but the last TC meeting they correct it was not on the that's cor so it was just R and basically a public yes this is a good step in the right direction for this property yeah so is there anything that we would want to add to this discussion or just let it stand it is well I guess the question is where it says that the construction code official the the letter requests that they inspect the building to confirm that proper maintenance is being performed um um I mean it sounds like maybe um there might be a followup regarding that that it isn't being maintained um properly um but it wouldn't even be on us to enforce anything right yeah yeah for you thank you yeah specifically I mean the porch being cropped up that's been that way for a number of years now what do they what's the plans for because that is not going to last indefinitely right yeah and it's being like sprayed for termites like you know regular maintenance and rodents and all that stuff okay um all right so that will be that uh next new business item would be our 2025 HPC meeting dates if you don't mind just looking through it if anyone has any issues with any the dates before we make it official in January please let me know I just wanted to give you the dates before it's official okay okay oh here we are so again it'll be the third Tuesday of every month um I know I'm traveling for one already the 15th I think I'm I'm going to be away traveling but maybe we can do it without me it's fine okay all right good okay um I have another new business item which um actually kind of follows also under old business signage um and I received um an email from a neighbor that lives um on Plainsboro Road and the question was that um they noticed that we had redone you know street signs in the historic district and the neighbor wanted to know why there wasn't a new street sign at the um intersection of Plainsboro Road and O'Brien are you guys familiar with that intersection is that the that's the Estates it's right across from the Elms um and it's um yeah so the way in which um it works is that the historic district is on the other side um you know where the apartment building is and the um that O'Brien development is not historic district um and the neighbors feels that it's shortsighted that we don't have a nice sign there because we have a nice one at the intersection of Maplewood and um Plainsboro Road and we have one at Main Street and Plainsboro Road um so I'll just make sure I share the feedback because I provided like some you know I went I I provided like a long detail like how we came to the Des description or decision about where to put these new signs and how we looked at traffic flow um and I explained how you know in there are some new developments where we have signs like for example Goodwin has a sign but it's sort of an entry to the historic district and it's on Main Street um and the same with like Brainard and Elms but since the um the O'Brien intersection there's only one way into that development you know is there there was a fear of okay you're you might be telling you know insinuating that they're going into a historic district right because especially since the sign is on that side of the road I mean if a sign was on the other side of the street I mean that would be no-brainer um but the um the neighbor felt that um that um let's see um let's see um I just a feedback um that the um that we need to do a better job of um replacing critical traffic signs that are long past our lifespan um you know if the costs are not so expensive why is it so you know it's not that expensive to put in one sign there why can't we um do that they think that the feedback is that shortsighted and that um it looks too odd that we have different styles of sign in around the town and that it would be more complete if we had one there but Jen wasn't that I remember the discussion and this was to take care of historic district because the signs were really in poor shape yes and I thought we talked about that this could be a model for the rest of the town as street signs need to be replaced they wouldn't have the historic district circle on top but they could be of the same style y over time to to replace them as needed so that's an that's like a phase two project yep so the historic district was the the main push yep um so yeah I've been reflecting on this for a while because it's so tricky I mean you could argue either way honestly I just what I worry about is like if we put in a night a a new sign there um could The Neighbors in that development feel like we're you know insinuating that they're in the historic district and then they could get upset um or would they not even care I this is one comment we've had I I don't know if anyone if you don't have that little circle on top saying cranberry historic district it's not but then if we do it for them like what's to stop my neighbors from saying Hey I want one like um but the point but the signs were all white letters on green throughout Town even in historic district before yeah yeah I know so now we're we're upgrading the signage yeah and over time just like the the white letters on green weren't all replaced at the same time yeah and as we've discovered as we've discovered some residents do not like to be in the historic districts so it can go either way some really want to be and some really do not this is what the model is of the new signage upgrading the signage that's and you're and you're taking if it's not in the historic district they're not going to have a little circle little circle on top indicating that but there's no current plan to upgrade with sence so that's the thing like we could make that recommendation yeah yeah I I can't remember committee I mean is that to say do we want to have signs that are Synergy so it's project management you had a project you completed it it was specific in its goal to the historic district and but as far as SE replacing signs that get worn out and outdated throughout the rest of the town is the township committee have a plan for that there's no plan for that that would like you went through phase one phase two and phase three was like gateways and yeah Etc so there's no phase four but there wouldn't be it' be phase it's outside of our how do we repace it do we want to have it look like the historic that's the township committee would have a discussion about it my opinion is no the scope of your project was to distinguish the historic district separate from the rest of the town so that you knew visually that you were entering a different part of Cranberry Township so that was completed yeah that's my opinion on it but I'm just saying if you completed it from a project management standpoint outside of that any sign replacement would go to normal DPW how we've done it for I don't know 100 years so may be the answer to that email that you received it's really out of our scope yeah but I believe Jerry directed them to her she's gonna direct them back to Jerry really oh that's funny looking at the it's not in District so your answer even if it's uncomfortable is 100% accurate that across the street you're yeah and now I know well now here's the other thing with what we're doing with the buffer and everything um I mean and removing the buffer I mean yeah we have a couple signs in the buffer are we G to take them down I mean I don't know it's I mean it's zom correct yeah the answer to your question was there I can see the historic district if I stand out on old Tron from my house and look across the field doesn't mean I need a sign right yeah I think is there is there a historic sign on Station Road at I don't know what that little road is called off the top of my head the two roads that we have one at Oak St over to don't at Evans we have one at oakill not at no yeah not at Evans but those two other streets connect to brainer yeah we did those they have signs right yeah we did those isn't that the same I mean I'm just playing Devil's Advocate isn't that the same condition as what's over in the road might be totally coincidental but um according to the properties that I'm suggesting that we account for in the all those notes it actually is perfectly aligned with what I'm suggesting should be in the district and what should not be on the district uh I not to uh to spoil the whole packet but um on on Plainsboro Road the uh there's there's two properties on that block across the street from O'Brien that are contributing uh or there's two two properties on plsb road that are contributing The Elms and uh the apartment building and they both face away from Plainsboro Road um The Elms faces East at Maplewood and Department building faces West um at Main Street and so when you're on that strats of Plainsboro Road you're really facing no historic buildings on on the other side of the street so it really doesn't make sense to include the other side of Plainsboro Road in the historic district in contrast to Station Road where the the south side of the street does have historic buildings facing Station Road and the the properties on the North side face those buildings so there is a distinction in terms of what would make sense to be in the district but that's jumping ahead to the next yeah piece of the agenda but that made sense coincidentally it happens to line where the signs are sign do oak and Pine Hill do because they're kind of in the historic district area there are uh let's see no Brendan just said then they're not the houses face face Station Road ac across as opposed to Plainsboro Plainsboro doesn't have any historic hous is facing plain Riv teally the road not in theoric District that's I'm just no I hear you I hear you one side is no but that side isn't so I hear what you're saying I I agree with you if that's what she's using as an example then she regardless if you have a the buffer but we ex whatever reason and P but not Evans I'm just saying there there could be a point there yeah I know you can argue it given the way it is today way but give but also considering however our discussion goes in the next agenda item then that might reconcile that discrepancy yeah I mean I think though to what Lisa's saying like so that intersection at Oak and um and Station Road the home there that's has the street sign like right on their property is not it was buffer right um it's it's the same situation as this obrien Estates the only difference is that you could technically kind of like um enter the outside of the district right on you're on brainer and you're driving down you know on Pine Hill and then you hit Plainsboro Road and now you have a street sign that says guess what you're in the historic district so we we kind of did it based on the way traffic was flowing like you're entering in to the historic district because someone could be going someone could go down station turn onto Evans turn down onto Brainard they hang out in that neighborhood and then they pop out onto PL Station Road then those signs there kind of EX you know introduce them to the historic district that was like the way in which we were putting all those signs those um stars and remember like same with Evans you could be you could drive in um from 1:30 to PL station down Evans to the other corner of Evans and then you're driving in and right at that intersection there we have something that kind of denotes that you're entering into the historic district um and so that was like kind of that rationale was based on traffic flow right Evans to me seems to not be an issue I mean it it it's outside the buffer it's outside of the historic district so you would not get a sign there at Station Road yeah the the only issue is you know there's a kind of similar condition on Station Road with those two streets as there is over on Plainsboro so I could I I could make an argument for putting the sign over there on plan yeah that's I I I agree feel like you can make an argument either way is it is it and so the problem is is you make one change though um you know we could okay so there's there's a few options we could recommend that we put in we put in one and we put a historic district sign in um because it is um technically On the Border um I mean looking around at the map there really aren't any other on EV Drive the stav's house I think the driveway I don't know what what the address is I mean it faces the lake but the driveway comes into Evans Drive and that certainly is a historic there is a sign there that is true and that's why we have a sign there yeah exactly there is a sign at that split okay yeah you're right at that split exactly um we could make we could have to allow the continuity of the newer signs we could propose to miss marabello that we do a plane one that's newer so that when you're driving down Plainsboro Road all the signs are newer um that would be another option but it would be up to the township right it's up to the township it's not our budget it's not we could just say to we could say to the town traffic committee like here's the feedback we've received from the resident HPC is sort of like indifferent at this point I'm not I mean yes I I'm not arue either way but what I would argue is that that you feel the character of the historic district on Station Road that you don't feel on Plainsboro Road because none of the the buildings across the street face the street so you don't feel like you're in historic district on it's the character is doesn't extend there whereas it does on Station Road so yeah I do lean that way exactly would I suggest a townwide signage based on one person who wants to have the same yeah if you feel that the criteria the methodology that you did on Station Road May apply to that road then I would say add the one sign but I wouldn't be kicking off or proposing to the township committee that we now have to come up with a alternative sign replacement program for Cranbury Township and I think yeah I think I think that that's fair and I think that I I am concerned tell tell me if am I nuts that people are could get really upset if we put Berkeley had with a historic district sign like imagine we did this like we give it um a new sign with historic district not brookley um O'Brien those Neighbors in that whole development you know are going to be like what the why are you doing this you're using the same methodologies that you're coming off of plsb Road you make a right into that Community you hang out there using the exact same word you use then you come out and you're entering into the historic district the same thing applies so either you pick the methodology that you just use pattern in that case if you appli the same methodology that you did to Station Road would that make sense and you're talking about one more sign that's for you guys to decide but go back to your original the methodology was all based on entering in from somewhere else and the again the issue is with this little development you enter in and then and out the same way so and they wouldn't feel that the whole development is in the historic district because the next when you get to that O'Brien is very short and then it turns and there's other signs you're not replacing those signs right yeah that's true that's true so we could so maybe we do replace it I mean it's not expensive to do one sign I don't think it would be we'd have to just make a request Miss Marabella say we have this feedback we think that you know it it it could create continuity of the view of the district it is on the board order um and we know that once you get into that little development the signs are different um here's the cost and then let the traffic committee decide whether it's something they want to spend money on I know there's a lot of other traffic committee um expenditures right now that are maybe a little more important right now like with people getting hit by cars and trucks and and everything like that but I mean I think we can let them prioritize it but I think like I think I I think it's fair for us to say we wouldn't have a problem if if if you know here's what's good about it here's what it would cost I would remove subcity it's not what good or what's bad about it why you're it if you're using the same methodology that you used on Station Road to make a right on what Evans or I'm sorry Oak to go into that neighborhood is hang out there and you leave I I don't think that was I wasn't on the commission at the time but I think the methodology is if you can enter from somewhere else right it's not returning from the same street that you entered on so for example on Station Road if you turned um turned off of North M into uh the neighborhood and then came back in right so from it's the methodology that you outlined is consistent as is you don't have to change anything to to be consistent it is that's what I would say it's not about doing something nice or responding to people you had a criteria you had a methodology sck to it it's yes or no and if it's outside the scope of that then okay but if you to your earlier point if you like yeah I can see it maybe maybe not then you're going to get another hey what about me what about the street what about that whatever your methodology was again if you're clarifying it stick to it and there's your answer yeah that's my okay so then I'm going to just propose let me know if you guys would maybe just a head shake that we um keep things as is right okay all right um okay all right cool um I do I really do I respect I drove through there I really try I'm trying to I I want people to be happy um and I and I'm excited that people like our signs you know um but I I just yeah I don't want to open up a whole new can of worms I think that's the biggest issue um okay cool all right now let's talk about our our our Hot Topic um amendments to the cranberry historic village district and buffer zone um so how many of you guys had a chance to listen to that really fun planning board meeting to go to I yes okay I listen you did not okay um so um so I attended just thinking that we were going to maybe get a couple quick question questions and like review it or whatever and they were um I think the issue is that you know they get a lot of slack for approving warehouses and everything um and so here we are coming in and talking about um you know adding a few houses to the buffer and adding or you know adding a few houses to the district removing the buffer uh back and forth and then we had a couple of vocal residents um that brought for forward some um questions and concerns um and so they were hesitant they started asking a lot of questions and I tried my best to answer them but it was like um I think they need some time to think it through and I think they wanted us to bring forward information um so that they have you know a full complete picture um so they had um a few questions that I was hoping we could just talk about briefly um and then what I'm going to do is I'm going to take each of the full each of the responses and put them in a slide for them and then Brendan did an amazing job like excellent doing this which I think will also 55 hours I know I mean this is freaking fantastic I mean this I feel like honestly we could probably just give them this yes but the only there was one thing I thought was missing which was the main reason we're doing this like we're adding this many but removing this many like those numbers of stats I don't know if there's a way like we could put those in um I'd like to throw in at this point I I believe when I was listening there was a comment made uh at least by one of the planning board members saying they had not reviewed whatever packet they had given too yeah that kind of part of the problem looking at this document which is super thorough and fantastic I'm thinking maybe an executive summary of some sort kind of what along with what Jen saying um would be very useful uh because I'm afraid again they're going to say they're not going to you know weighed through the entire thing again this thing is so this I don't know how Al to communicate that they do need to be prepared for the meeting and I I I mean they reviewed what I had made in PowerPoint because that's like that's like my job like my that's my forte is I take something complicated and put it into like a simple story right visual yeah yeah um I don't know I me we could do that that's what I was thinking of doing is providing their answers in that um or we could just say here's this which is also provides all the answers um they may not I don't know if they'll review everything um this whole thing really that's my fear you highlight and address those specific questions like saying forward it I could do an annotated [Music] versend all tremendous amount of work questions answer I think some some members are going to want to read it all and some members won't um where was the um but anyone who has a question they can refer to the specific page that will answer their question this um referring to thef yeah so I could probably go to the next planning board meeting and they they raise a question having not read the document I can refer to the page in the document that would answer their question and the one and the one property um from the draft document that's missing and it's in yours Brenton uh the notes is one Big Barn Road so that property was missed because set back wasn't again it was the other side of of plsb Road not in the historic district per se but backs up uh to the rear of the historic property and the barn itself has history to it so yeah I think there might possibly be two contributing resources on that property the barn itself uh and also the field that's adjacent adjacent to the agricultural field that we have uh that is a contributing property so there might actually be two resources there right you know what I think we should do here's what I'm thinking because this is so freaking good and honestly like also it is um Liz's map in here um oh you we have this here um I'm thinking um Brendan are you able to flip in the one that list did with from this one which which one the on p s um instead of doing this one from the um the interactive map could we put in lizz's map of contributing versus non-contributing blue one the new one we can add it and what I'm thinking there are errors in that there are 10 properties that are miscolored on but I wouldn't you found them yeah um which ones are miscolored well nine of them are marked as when they're not contributing one of them is Mark is not contributing when it is contributing so we should ask that it be corrected yeah okay I mean that's a click of a button but the one thing I was thinking is um where is where's the one that's the I think it would be nice to have the two maps next to each other one that shows contributing 9 contributing and one that shows the modifications because like I think you all heard that took away that the issue was that they felt like we were just doing all of this because of those three um houses when in fact the actual reality is that there's tons of there's other houses in that really make our historic district you know it's a little yes it's a little less dense um than the downtown district but it's still pretty pretty pretty good I'm sorry what do you mean by just the three houses which ones are you referring to the ones on North Main Street which ones are these no you said oh the three yeah these three one two three the ones that had the little buffers around them yeah and the other difference is the two maps is this one has another category key contributing which this one just has the two categories so they don't and it should so they should correct it we can include all of them I I don't mind but I think it's like I think it's really helpful to see this compared to this because that's what's there now this is they were just so confused um by all of this um and they um I think there was you know because of some of the neighbor um complaints there was like this fear that were um forcing people um you know the non-contributing to do things and that we were gonna um cause a problem that they're Brendan's notes very clearly I think it's very clear and like love not that case I love too how you organized it by like here are the guidelines because you know Mr rusi kept saying like where are the guidelines where are the guidelines well it's very clear like in that document um for everyone in the historic district to maintain the streetcape here are the things that we're going to look at like fences sidewalks that kind of stuff and then then you had the whole other section where is if you're part key contributing resources here's the other criteria you're looking at so I feel like it it's really good and honestly too I thank you Amy for finding the Allen Town um guidelines because I mean I feel like we have a pretty good thing going because if we were to try to do Allen if we were to show them like Allentown I mean they would have a freaking heart attack I mean that town those guidelines were so incredibly specific and DET it's a much bigger I mean your Liberties are taken away in Allentown you're in historic district like checked off like it was beautiful like the way they had it all mapped out I feel like what we ours is sort of like a cranberry version of it you know but if if we were to be as serious and mapped out as theirs yeah I mean I don't know um my question is what happens next we B basically were kind of shut down at the planning board they were not going to proceed with this amendment so what what are the next steps oh they will I oh sorry may I may I propose some next steps I I don't want my document to be taken as or presented as everyone's um viewpoint on the commission so I think the first step would be do we all agree about the decisions I made about the rationale for inclusion and exclusion because that's little different than what was they were looking at last month and then I think a NE if if we are in agreement about that I think a Next Step would be to talk to the planning board and F and see do you think that are we interpreting the master plan correctly because they have to decide whether this is consistent with the master plan and I want to make sure we're not going down the wrong path by with the rationale that we're doing um I know we were under this really tight deadline to get things done by the end of the year it's not going to happen by the end of the year that free us up to approach things in a more systematic schedule the question too so you're adding properties on top of what was already corrupt okay right so then that would mean that HBC would have to have another public hearing yeah so there's no way this would get done even by the end of I don't know January so um okay so that would be the next step so what the next step is what planning board is going to be doing so the next step would be the public hearing right well the planning board is going to have to take a the master plan Amendment could sorry could we get feedback from the planning board like could we find out if they agree that we're going down right on the agenda so it's definitely on the agenda for December 5th so if you want hey we want your feedback you're not we could go back to them and be like here's our feedback here's our memo here's all of our rational and here's you know answering all of your questions you know what's your feedback so that'll be that and then if they say look we agree with everything yeah you can add these properties then a public hearing would have to be done then the planning board would have to approve the master plan Amendment then TC would have to introduce the ordinance then plan work would have to find it consistent with the master plan and then we're done and now that we're not working under a tight schedule um could we possibly make the changes to Chapter 93 in advance separate from a designating additional property so that way there's no question for any homeowner about what the rules will be yeah that's what I think we should do saying before everything said and done sorry are you saying before everything's said and done or can we we get can we revise Chapter 93 and even possibly have the TC vote on revising Chapter 93 before we does a any additional I see why not okay I I think that's I had a question about the Chapter 93 the E and the F additions just how they um intersect with our design guidelines that we already have yes uh so I found minutes from a TC meeting when those design guidelines were introduced you were there you presented them uh and the TC asked you are these the official standards are these binding are these the real and and you said these are Guidance the what what actually the rules that have to be followed are the ones in the ordinance that that those those design guidelines are just for you know to help do they differ greatly between in the ordinance and the guidelines are they complementary I guess more official language yeah okay it's easier to read the way we have it in our thing and they have pictures in the design yeah and pictures yeah this thing doesn't have anything this is not helpful for home owner one thing from the allent town document but I thought it was very very good page 10 yes lists everything what you know to repair existing work or what's you can replace new window oh yeah there's so window page was the this is very easy to understand a homeowner would really go for this yeah maybe we use the time to do that was the main page that got me when I was looking at like it is it was like that was like the best put that somewhere and and this flowchart but this but this really just in in it's just it's the same information it's just put into a a single page yeah but it it it it defines more of in kind replace replacement versus total replacement but what's appropriate and and what's available now is Pro in as as replacement products so it's not strictly yeah you could replace in kind but you can certainly s in you can do hardy hardy board or yeah you know different different things um so I'll say what do you think Brandon that I I think so I've seen I mean Allentown has these great standards Kate May has spectacular design guidelines and these are all for their these are not in their ordinances these are these got home help homeowners well so we we would probably to get an I mean we can we can do anything on you know our volunteer basis but also to get anything to that level that those places have we probably need to apply for a grant and make a new 20 year later design guidelines PDF to help what I'm thinking is what if we just add another page like you know add do it as an an additional page that we design versus redoing I I I because I yeah I I see what you're saying to make it like Kate May and that's why I'm saying like make it like Allentown and Kate May um Kate May is more restrictive I mean they have colors over there yeah there's so much more like I think that there's something nice in the Simplicity of ours as well but I do think that that is good because sort of a nice summary for someone can we add this to our application document yeah great check I mean that was myor this is what I want to do this is yeah and just change the columns if necessary to fit our what we're doing just change the column headings so so I want to say that um the authors of the allent Town document attended my wedding so I know no way how about that they'll be very like honored to know where like we think of them as the best practice so they even have like little keys for contributing andriu I know the other thing I want oh sorry Lisa we can say no just a quick thought so like Pages 14 through 20 on your document it's a ration for inclusion in vill District I can see this why really money in the planning meeting because you're like starting on number two Barkley Street and you're going through six pages of properties what I would suggest there is an executive summary of what is the rationale for inclusion and list I don't know however many things are in here visibility from the road um the time it was constructed it's architect you list those things and then in an appendix you say I've got looks like I don't know 40 something right however many properties are in your appendix because I think that's when I was listening to it they were getting down in the they started to get really confused they didn't understand the numbers and we're saying the Ral for including they didn't even have this though they didn't they weren't provided really any rationale or or or the reports yeah right so you're gonna go back and say okay here's the r but I wouldn't provide it with six pages of the individual properties because they'll lose their you're not going to get out of there another eight hours I think we can make a onepage executive S I can help you with that like I can we can work together on that um I think it would be good just a nice little yeah executive summary yeah are the details yeah yeah executive summary and answers to their questions page um and then that way then and then they have the rest of the details so if they want to get into the weeds then they have that but like I mean yeah not all of them are like were are like that some of them were well advance of December 5th our expectation is that you're going to read these documents thoroughly and appreciate the work that has been done by HBC yeah and if they haven't be like we're going to sit here for three more hours and have the same dialogue because you didn't read the word provided to you in the packet that's not acceptable yeah and then the other thing that they were asking for escape for us yeah and the other thing that um I know upset some people was that they were like well we want to know you know who who recommended this and who did um we said Richard grub and they were like well we want to have Richard grub in the next meeting and stuff and I mean and we we talk to Robin talked to them they're not coming because they have spent so much time like with us they're like if you aren't gonna like listen like we don't need to keep being IM um interrogated on you know why we're doing what we're doing we're experts and I think um we the summary the sum the um survey results pH three Richard grub spells it out I know and that's why I think like um I think that that's why it's interesting because like do we go to them with feedback for their feedback or do we actually just go to them and say listen you know we are the experts in this and we consulted with an expert here's our rationale here's the answers to your questions like take it or leave it you know that's what you do exactly what you said yeah we our job is to we hired a consultant we've spent two years two years working on this project and we are the experts in it and our job is to take all of our time and present it to you we've done that a concise manner you know read the material we're happy to answer any of your questions but you're not going to keep blowing I mean I don't know I I supposed to start with 55 hours add up with you just said you did this last since your last meeting yep yep come on yep I know my hourly rate time exactly if the information is there for them to read and understand and their own questions are answered then you help move the meeting along yeah and Michael fronte I would imagine or Aman could help you as leise on to the planning board to be meet with them maybe separately yeah and just say help us get through a planning in less than three hours that's not happen they spent like an hour talking about a garbage can before I got there can help you funnel down what the message is and not have to be calling in this isn't a trial you have to call a witness of yeah it did feel like that it was it felt little I would get back to basics and and see if you canit the help of am and Michael before the dec okay and as a side note the board planner mentioned and it's part of the ordinance and the municipal land use law that if they don't approve the master plan the TC can still go forward with the designation which I don't know if they would do but just as a side note that can happen Okay would say also that the TC be provided yeah we can provide this whole thing with TC stands now as well as the executive summary before the December 5th meeting as well so that we're getting what the planning board is good that's the only way that anyone's going to be able to help during those I love it I love it okay so go through questions I have um before we get to questions I did have one quick question Brendon about this because you know as they were getting into the weeds there was all this discussion about North M so you know the property that we have at the very top um 175 that gray one from the naked eye it looks like why do we have to have it um because the very top 175 um I hate to do like this one right at the very top yes yeah so my just so if you look at page yeah so if you look at page 13 you'll see that I've marked it as consider removing from the master plan Amendment okay hold on let me look it was built in the 1900 yes P page 20 okay Brendon smart minds think alike and and then on page 20 I do provide the rationale for why it should be excluded um that property is on the periphery and is more than 200 feet from contributing property and it was only included in the phase three survey because part of the lot extends south south of Cedarbrook which was the northern boundary of the nrhp district in 1980 so I agree it shouldn't be in there but then why okay then now I'm asking why are we doing okay so we're doing Mark Bukowski's house right that's the one that goes way back with the no the flag lot I don't think marks is a flag lot no well and it's where is his house one is is it this one I think so yeah because it says consider yeah I'm proposing that we include them his one include all the so that it's yes contiguous on North Main Street um we could look at the particular property to of the driveway and then it is like sort of um well they're both so oh in that one too okay yeah both both flag Lots um there it's not that the structures themselves really affect things but the property any future work done on the property might um and so okay they're both news but it'll be considered non-contributing yes yes um okay so all right so I think that I think that it makes sense there okay so one okay so let's just go through these questions okay so they they were asking a lot about like why is our district on one side of the street but not the other side of the street because they think of streetscape they think of like the Vista um for the whole as you're driving down the road so they were asking for example like why is one side of Station Road um not in the historic district and the other is and and I have no idea when we started this back in the day like there not enough look at page 21 this these are the 1980 boundaries and that is pretty much what Richard grub used to decide which one should be surveyed yeah from the 1980 always amaz me that the east side of North Main Street was excluded when there's a lot of nice homes there from the 1930s yeah and the west west side was well so one of the things I learned was that the uh the first district nomin this this nomination form was first filled out in 1975 the town didn't really get on board with a district until 76 and it wasn't submitted to Trenton until 77 and so then it wasn't submitted to the uh feds until 79 so 80 is already five years after they decided what you know what the district should be okay um so do we have an answer yes um the southside of station Road was in The District in 1980 and north side was not the same thing on Plainsboro Road and the same thing up on North Main Street they they used the 1980 boundaries to decide which properties to survey I think one of the the stumbling blocks is that the properties that were surveyed were approached from an architectural historian's perspective which is understanding what you know the history of the district and and but if we're going to the planning board they're going to be more interested in land use and from a land use perspective two sides of the street are pretty similar to each other and so I think we as a commission have to help bridge that divide between the architectural historian's perspective and a l use perspective that's a very good point okay all right so I um I'm taking notes I'm going to use this to kind of answer the questions um okay cool um North Maine why okay adding houses north of Silvers on North Main um I meant Goodwin um so they were asking about these houses how and it was I guess it was sort of around the same area about um you know putting the ones on the leftand side and then across the street there's those um new ware houses the backyards of silvers that had been buffer we're removing those um I guess you know they're yeah they're asking about why these and why not those the same kind of the same question one side of the street versus not the other we also had The Farmhouse um that was a standalone uh historic property so you're trying to you're just maintaining that streetcape up to that farmhouse on the other side because it had a it had the 250 buffer all around that I'm going to I'm going to add that we are incorporating their feedback I'm going to say that HPC is incorporating their feedback actually umth of that fous silver Sil right the back the back is in affected there is one there is one on the north side of that Farmhouse so if you look at page yeah oh I know that house but it would have been affected with the buffer area instead of looking at the I would say instead of looking at the map and the amendment if we could look at page 13 because that incorporates the map from the amendment but with the changes I'm proposing yeah and that's what I'm going to say in my notes to is that we incorporated planning board feedback and that we removed the house from the north and that we um we are adding one next to the historic um to maintain for Street State for Street skate street that was included in the buffer area those those two properties on either side of The Farmhouse they were included anyway yep and then we are not having those houses that that are are that face Silvers and the one that faces main because it's it's their backyard no there's a better reason than that um go to page sure to your friend go to page 24 24 silver these these three properties have a 25 foot landscape buffer easement uh facing North Main Street so that should be sufficient for protecting the street foot buffer landscape buffer landscape buffer that is beo so why make them do things when they have this landscape buffer ement beautiful okay I love it okay next um okay when okay when did we decide to do it's to connect when did we decide to I don't know why this they got they asked this but why did when did we decide to do this to to you know extend the you know the the historic district on North Main is was the question Shing the process of the uh historic preservation element of the Master Plan update yes and we had a number of those properties on North Main Street age in to the historic district historic but that's the wi so I just it's in 20 and Robin found it in the minutes bless her heart she went through the mall what what year was it again 2020 um in 2020 I just went through it I just went through a deposition at work so I'm very much into the yes no as little information as possible it was done in conjunction with Richard grub as well they actually was Richard CH yeah Richard so Richard grub proposed it three years prior to that if you look at page four um in my description of the period of significance uh if you read that first paragraph the phase one survey report the last sentence from Richard Grubb and Associates is extending the period of significance to circa 1940 would allow several resources along North Main Street to contribute to the district and connect the main portion of the district to its three isolated properties of the north will you be my date for the next planning meeting I I can go to next yeah okay thank you um okay and then the planning board wants a map of the proposed district with the house of color coded contributing versus non-contributing we've done that and then I'm going to make a note though that we're going to ask Liz to make some um color changes right Brendan can and add the key contributing I think would be valuable add key contributing maybe put a star on the ones star with key contributing it starts getting too we we don't want to confuse them I'm I'm trying to think through how we make it really because again the problem with the map from before was it was confusing because we had buffer there but it's being moved and then this added and that added likeus we don't have that many key contributing do like the darker okay darker blue dark BL and then Brendan would you be able to send me the ones that are wrong on here okay and I'll I'll craft a note to Liz right okay you can for it on to her okay to sare revisions okay cool um okay the planning board requests the proposed language and how we review non-contributing ver is non versus contributing okay so I saw that in what Brendon did yeah the last seven wait how we the proposed language for how we' review that's the the last uh five pages yeah the only thing I was going to ask or is like should we um um should we say like you know where it says 937 standards design guidance criteria we say um maybe put a parenthesis and say contributing and non-contributing properties I'm just trying to make it like so it's like in your face and then for the other one um for then then when you get to page uh then when you get to what is it I just cop this is the ordinance that's how the the section is um oh this is the ordinance exactly the does the ordinance Define contributing versus non-contributing only half of that the ordinance has a definition for non-contributing and it doesn't Define contributing but it doesn't matter because the ordinance doesn't distinguish between contributing and not contributing not yet um so yes we that we'll need a definition of contributing um when I was working with Liz she she had drafted one oh she had okay Liz um definition I would guess in our three phases of surveys is that there would be definitions of the key contributing contributing and non-contributing so that you know um I think there were I I think so too so this is how so go back to the surveys and get the language from there and then you said Liz has one so maybe we ask her to to share what she's done well so I Define conf on page it all page six uh I do describe what it would need to be to be uh to be deemed contributing to contribute to Historic districts this in the first paragraph at the top of page six so that's not like a definition we would drop into the ordinance but if someone wanted to understand what does it mean to be contributing or not oh then yeah we're answering the question here no but it I don't know that it really says why something would be non contributing in that first paragraph yeah it it says why something's contributing but not why it would be why would we include buildings that don't meet that definition they've lost Integrity then it could be outside of the period of era significance yeah and I would say the uh the bit that I included from the national register criteria uh for evaluation that probably speaks to why a district has a mix of contributing non contributing it's probably the best text for that where do where do we have that that's right here also on page six right here on the third paragraph yeah the key one there I think is the um referencing the grouping of the properties achieve achieve significance as a whole I'm I'm you guys lost me with the whole where where it it's defined here it's in the third section on page six third um in the middle of of that paragraph the grouping achieved significance as a whole within its historic context it says the majority it says the majority of the components that add to a District's historic character even if they were are individually undistinguished must possess Integrity as must the district as a whole that's so confusing to someone who's not a historical yeah pres that's the homeowner well it's referencing the streetcape I mean as you're looking it's evolved it's part of the streetcape it's part of the history of the Town even though individ some individual properties may not be significant as a whole it's sign I think they're looking for though like an executive summary where we either we say I think it's just I think what we we've landed on there's two bullets high level lost its Integrity due to um changes changes you know do to we say one of the smaller homes outside the period of significant insignificant smaller home was bought demolished and a mcmansion was put up yeah what does that do to the streetcap throws off the whole Rhythm I mean yeah so non-contributing property is defined in the ordinance today if you were just looking for what what what that definition is that we do have that defined in our Chapter 93 already I didn't I didn't include in this packet okay but it's there's there's a definition in our okay cool all right um let's go back um we're almost done oh we are done we're done um Richard grub can Richard grub come to the next planning meeting and the answer is no sorry we've consulted with them we've paid them we all have many years probably at least like you know you know 100 years worth of experience between all of us um so yeah we're good to go okay so this was really productive you guys um what I'll do is sorry one one other thing so I I received feedback uh from several members about questioning some of the design guidelines that are in here now I didn't add or remove or change anything I just kind of divided them up into what makes sense for everything and only for um contributing properties but if we are able to proceed with revisions to Chapter 93 before we embark on all this rest of this stuff maybe that's a time if there's anything else that someone has identified in Chapter 93 in the design standard it's like that doesn't make sense because we don't do that anymore or anything else should we do that when we are making this change can you give an example guy I'll give my example which is synthetic siding uh under exterior materials which is on page 27 yeah so he talks about synthetic sighting may be used on new structures sythetic sighting may be used on new additions visible from the street blah use of synthetic sighting is permitted I you know and I to brenon I thought that we would need to Define what that means because synthetic could be vinyl we don't want to include vinyl as an option and that's normally what we don't approve synthetic sing as Hardy Board fine you know but so I think needs more specificity yeah and my comment was color there's several references to color I notic that the only color we work on is signage in the historic district was appropriate for a sign but colors of house or trim yeah I noticed that they had that we don't we don't we don't have any jurisdiction we we might have in terms of like roof color or color or something like that like there's something in regards to color yeah roof color could but I agree that in terms of paint color we don't so we'd have that would require it's not really just striking the word color we probably have to uh find T an exactly specific what good point the roof would be one that we can have some so recommendation um so should so um would we want to you know provide the town the the planning board along I don't think they should be the planning board because it's not going to be part of an amendment and it's not we tell them that we're revising the standards to be consistent with the you know obviously with the ordinance and then we're also going to provide specific recommendation or specific um updates that are um you know to just to update the document I don't want to add another thing for them to it's there's already like three big sets of changes adding property is removing the buffer and changing the chapter like I don't I I just think that if we are able to change Chapter 93 in advance of actually moving forward with designating properties then since that's going to be a more narrow change maybe that allows us to bring in additional updates to the design standards I personally don't feel only been on this Commission Now for this year I don't feel like I could write those standards but if I just wanted to bring it up in case the commission wanted to do so um typically a consultant is hired to do the standards do the guidelines so um that would be something that we would have to plan for okay so we would have to apply for a grant and CLG Grant just to approve to redo chapter 94 or no no no for the guidelines oh the guidelines yeah okay so we're back to that and well actually no their comments was on Chapter 93 um sorry when I said design guidelines I just was referring to section 937 design guidelines because they use that terminology in the chapter too um which letter like E and F and F yeah or Robin uh or Lisa is it better to do a small change of dividing up these standards and then later on down the road do another small change which is Strike pink color and also adjust how vinyl sighting is referred to or like what's the best way to proceed okay all right separately got it okay so that will be a goal for next year I think we can do that as our that'll be our Focus for next year then since it's involves a lot of work and um I don't know if I I still think that I mean I don't know can we do it you think we can do it ourselves like we have a lot of knowledge here versus having to hire someone and we can do these documents now with canva it's so easy um I mean we do have a document to start from it's not like we're starting from scratch we revise it we look through Allen Town and Kate may and like do it if you have to hire a consultant to do it then I would put money in the budget but explain that you're you'll do the best based on the capabilities of the commission to do it yourself but if you have to fall back and get it done and you require outside services to do it right yeah maybe we just pay for a little bit of richer grub Consulting like to to take a look through and provide us feedback you know based on what they're seeing in other put in small amount cover that okay do we agree okay yeah for how much money do you think that would we we we can ask without causing we already put in for 1500 so we can for Professionals for each PC so we can add on to that I can ask if we could add on to that yeah okay all right these people are like $500 an hour right like Richard a little crazy I feel that's not yeah yeah okay so a total of five yeah and then you know we can use canva to make that thing and you know I made the brochure all by myself that we have for the new homeowners okay I had one question Robin you had mentioned that uh with the changes that we're proposing on one of these um maps to what had already then propos that we will need to be doing another public hearing yep okay where does that fit into the scheme of planning board and all that so first it'll go to the planning board on December 5th where you all will just discuss with them see if how they feel about everything okay then we have to go kick back back to the HPC for a public hearing again and I would have to send out notice for that again and then it would go to the planning board for the master plan once everything's said and done and then it would go to TC for ordinance to for designation then back to the planning board to find it consistent with the master plan then back to the TC to adopt and then it's all set it done okay and is the public hearing for HPC a uh special meeting it doesn't have to be no it could be it can be part of a regular meeting yeah okay okay great thank you all right I'm taking this all down too so we have this schedule 1 2 3 4 five six six months it's going to take us a year but we can do it I believe well remember if 1975 they first fill that that nomination we didn't get a local District until 1989 so these things take time yeah okay this is good master plan is 10 years yeah so for our next uh December planning board meeting um we'll work on um getting some updates to the maps we're going to um work on an executive summary um um Brendan and I and uh I think that's it that's our main those are our two main things um and then we'll be ready we'll give them this and this and that's it and they will and we'll ask them to read it and we're going to also copy everyone on Town Township committee so that they see this as well cool okay you guys this is great okay next item um relationship with the building inspector was there an update from a meeting you guys had it was so long ago was it I know um so uh Robin Brendan and I sat down with Mr Robin what's his name John John and it was a very good conversation I did take a few notes um uh he did he was very receptive to us he welcomed our um our help uh he did say that um he welcomes our notifying the construction Department if um an approved conditions that we have approved have been violated and you know we see something on the street which you know is happening we can go ahead and do that as opposed to being uh shed away um I have a note here so maybe someone can explain it to me it says hand out pamphlets to potential violators I think the idea being that if someone was making a change that they hadn't gone before the commission for that maybe it's because they were unaware and so then he can hand them that pamphlet at that time to help them here's what the HBC does right okay and which do we know which one of the many Flyers that have been generated this year that I we do we have a new uh brochure we did it cranberry day we made a couple quick updates and Robin has a file um we send it out to all new homeowners so yeah I mean he could have it and give it to potential violators yeah so there you go um and uh there's also that conversation Robin about the is it sdl software so can you explain that briefly so they just implemented the sdl software for the Construction office and land use and zoning and I was asking him if there's any way he could have some kind of a flag when they are inputting any kind of a permit for any properties that is under HPC purview and he said he can definitely work on that yeah that' be really great very um and then the last thing he was explaining that we were talking about the sequence right of you know HBC approval versus uh zoning approval and H PC approval versus construction approval so I learned that um according to the municipal land use law ml L that HPC precedes zoning Robin correct me if I'm incorrect here but and then but for Construction Construction approval precedes HPC approval not approvals but like applications so like you apply to construction and then it goes to HPC and then but supposedly HPC approval has to precede zoning approval um is that right that's up in the air with HPC and Zoning it is is it's HPC and Zoning is always pre-approval from the building department always pre-approval okay it's just the zoning in HPC is up in the air there's no one has to be before the other okay so that continues to be not clear correct construction I mean you wouldn't want them to go through all these construction plans and then HPC reviews it and say this is not what is appropriate and then they have to go back and have I think what they're saying is like the application starts a construction it gets turn flagged like Robin saying it turned over to us for approval so that right if it if it falls but that initial permit don't they have to submit plans at that time yeah yeah they could have come to a conceptw beforehand right if if if you were embarking on some plans and you weren't sure what if it was wasn't necessarily following the standards for the district and you wanted to you could go to a concept review without actually opening a permit okay yeah we just don't because we've had this in the past where we've had people come in with the architect and they like all this stuff and we said you know you need to make changes so that's costing them more money and if you're doing all construction it that's I don't know clear that one you know process point of view we think that we sign off first before they get a permit yeah yeah they can review it Zing board this whole flyer is about to do the preview then talk to your contractor and work something up and then we can get the okay and then they can fine-tune it and then submit everything you do yeah one step basically you're saying you feel like it should go through HPC before zoning permit I think so it makes I mean if I was a homeowner or an AR I am an architect but if I if I was submitting a propos you know a project I would want to come here and get everybody inut first get our feedback get it nailed down get your approval and then know that I can go to the building department get a permit that I don't have to worry about change she's done that with this with if it needs zoning we say We'll approve this it's pending zoning approval pending construction approval I mean it's what's the difference Robin the fact that it goes in either order that just depends on how the applicant chooses to do it exactly and then if Andre notices that because I always sent Andre all of our approvals if Andre notices that it wasn't approved by HBC he'll put a note on it he can approve it he'll say it's approved but yet just reminder you have to go through race say he doesn't do that if they had a reason to go to zoning first then I don't think we have to force to come to us first if that I think it's good that they have the choice that was it um so speaking of this item I have like an an update to share this kind of ties this a little bit is that um we HPC got an email from um a resident who um sort Prim um asking like who approved uh the demolition of the Chamberlain and Barkley property no no no it was worded who approved how could HPC allow demolition of the cranberry station Hamlet that's that's what they one person which person was it approved demolition of the cranberry station the whole Hamet the whole Hamlet which is not what was demolished no no and superce and he's got a lot of know um he had some good knowledge about the oh thank you Robin um he had some great knowledge about the Hamlet that we might be able to use for our um like designation about how it was used during the Civil War um but um the um I explained to him that you know unfortunately um this is a situation where um the hope the property was not designated historic and that um we were you know pretty much told that we were not allowed to discuss this in our meetings um that the township you know doesn't want didn't want to ruffle any feathers um you know there was a lot of um concern about why this you know happened like how the sale of the property happened so quickly and no one even saw it for sale sign and you know just you know concern about just greed and everything that's going on on the other side of Route 130 um and so you know I explained that you know um we don't have the the authority to approve demolitions of not of buildings that are not designated historic um that we did make an arrangement with the owner of U the new of the property that they were going to work to preserve the the depot um and you know so so I sort of just um updated him because I think he you know he obviously hasn't been part of our of our our meetings um so that's that's where we are you know it's it's unfortunate but I think he understood that we are you know of course super committed to the Hamlet I explained to him how we've worked you know tirelessly to get the Hamlet designated um locally and that um you know we are you know ongoing initiatives with the Hamlet and um so that's that's where that was so um okay um next is uh library books any updates on library books I think we could table it to next next month that's so remember it has to be ordered by the end of the year for the budget yeah we can talk about it for um in our next meeting let's let's just ask everyone you guys let's think about library books for um for for the library any any gaps that we think we could have in the Cranberry collection I have one you do I do do you want to hear about it now or in December let's wait till do do it now yeah yeah it sounds ex exciting um it's a big title huh this is one of my favorite books it's the Illustrated dictionary of historic architecture oh wow I have two copies so um it's it's great because it's Illustrated right and they're just like little drawings and you know you can so like it doesn't really help you if you see something and you're like what is that thing because you'd have to flip through the whole book but you know it it helps Define a lot of terms and things like that so I say we go with that okay yeah $25.11 break our budget our budget is what 50 yeah all right room for another book $ book yeah for the next meeting let's bring It Forward um we still have time uh we talked about signage um the Coe for the Hamlet any updates on that I do not have any updates on that where are we with that with I know it's weren't you getting an application that was already done or something from this or a person at state that was we got to get on this yeah I'll figure it out all right maybe you and I need to have another brainstorming session we can do that okay um okay identifying and designating historic sites Dave has been busy so I passed around a hard copy of the spreadsheet so we have H 49 properties I eliminated the um two that have been demolished you asked that they be put back on the list so I did that um I put back the cranberry master plan key numbers from the original list so that's back um uh you can take out we have enough information on the cranberry station Hamlet but I included that here because that we researched those but that would be part of a uh we did the official survey on those already so that's it's just here on the list um I took all the pictures now I'm trying to I have to compile them and see how I'm going to include them on this um and then we can go through and decide there there's probably a few properties which we decided we just don't want to pursue um like there's one in particular on John White Road going toward East Windsor around the bend in the road there's a long drive way with a gate do not enter and there's an old farmhouse back there that you cannot see I don't no idea what it looks like and whatever I mean uh oh it's a stals building no no it's not STS it's um I think I think so three sub addition oh lus far The lius Farmhouse no let's see 81 keer that's the 102 I think that's the one yeah I don't know if youve ever seen it yeah but that but those kinds of properties it might be that just no even a a professional they're not going to be able to take any pictures unless you get permission it just doesn't give that feel that going be able to do that but you know there's a couple of properties that um um it's just going to be hard to uh do that but anyway so this is the list it's got the current uh Property Owners uh I was talking before the meeting I was trying to find as far as one Farmhouse that's been demolished where the new um uh Adult Community is on die Road and uh Petty Road that corner The penic Farmhouse that was demolished I could not find what the lot in block and lot number where because the tax map's already been updated so I don't know what you know just a two-story Farmhouse um and I think there were some parts but anyway but that those are gone but anyway if there's any that I anything that I've missed I think I've been went through drive-thru number of times um try to capture everything um some of the even the middlex county which then feeds into the Cranberry Township uh tax map uh some of the date build dates are there's typos in them um like some farmhouses I'm guessing it's 1850 they have 1950 they have the log cabin on cranberry Neck Road is built in 1900 you know I know the typos on some of those days yeah so I put if there's a difference I'll put MC and then Circa yeah the date that's in the in the um in the actual tax record so um anyway so this is this is what I have right now it was a long time for the leaves to fall yeah it's I think what's interesting is to see like which homes are um Realtors and which homes are um you know like um versus people you know yeah I feel like um it's like you know the ones that are owned by realators are sort of like cranberry's most endangered list you know yeah and it's almost like um and the one surprise was the one where um die road comes into uh South River Road C South River Road and there's a farm actual Farmhouse there and I actually did drive up the drive pretend I'm turning around it looks quite nice from that view from the street view it's the side of the side of the house but the front looks quite interesting yeah it's going into yeah but I don't know what you know the old business name is still there kler is still on listed on he's moved so I don't know yeah it's abandoned now right pretty much I don't know I mean somebody was uh some contractor was renting out the the barn in the back or Gage what's that yeah um uh so that that was some activity but the the building itself doesn't look like it's actively used but anyway it's a nice Farmhouse yeah as is the suddler property on Prospect Plaines and the barn next to it the one that was uh designated when the S suler uh management um company bought that property and they have I guess warehouses or Office Buildings next on either side of it oh the historic preservation uh Society was helped with that U Save that Farmhouse which one is that on this list it's the one on Prospect PLS yes so it's the it's a five bay Farmhouse with a porch it's very close to the road it's got a nice Barn next to it I do wish we would do like a most I mean I think it' be good to do like a cranberry endangered list or you know most endangered lists like you know all the other like New Jersey has a list like um I don't know and maybe our town is too small and it would cause too much of a problem if we did it and the other endangered Farmhouse now you're speaking of it's similar to the 147 Plainsboro Road is the one on uh it's off let's see no it's not John White John White goes toward East Windsor it anel is it anel Davidson uh oh the one that's right by the street it's right by the street the porch has falling off um Simonson's uh Farm tree farm is where is that on on here DAV no it's on George Davidson George Davidson that's it wait where is that the names are so familiar who owns that yes 35 George Davidson Road oh it's owned by people East Brunswick yeah people who don't live there but that one is similar to the 147 where but it's even worse the porch is falling off nobody's living there it's it's really falling falling apart okay Dave the one on uh Prospect planes are we sure that that's not key number two on the master plan the the one that is marked as demolished no because it was not not demolished there might no but I mean maybe it wasn't demolished maybe it's this one let's see what's the block five lot one so the lot's different but they may have rejiggered the tax map and that's why it's a different Lot number uh that I can't tell you I I the yeah the prect planes that entry was from Master Plan two two iterations ago from 2010 because otherwise it would mean that um the one that was fought to be preserved wasn't included in the master plan and it probably if there was a fight to preserve it then it probably ended up in the master plan map and could be could be number two so number two might not actually be demolished number two might be the one that you're talking about I'll double check that I actually had the tax map and I was looking at the from that from whenever this the latest yeah the latest tax map has well but it would be the tax map at the time of the master the 2010 tax map if it was okay yeah I don't know that's that's something okay it's there so okay and it hasn't been surveyed so this we can do the de deeper dive there so so how far along are you with the I know you were taking pictures and everything did you finish or I got all the pictures okay um except for one of the barns on John on John White Road is the way uh is the stultz is own that one and they actually live in Plainsboro in the house across the street but it's Cranberry address so was a little confusing in that Barn that they used to sell produce from I'm not sure if that was an old I thought that was a newer constructed bar yeah it shows it says it's an older Barn so I don't know but I included it here so I didn't take a picture when I was doing my RS I have to go back and do that one that's another stcky road because one side of the road is Plaines burrow up until that bend and then they're cranberry again yeah um so I think it'd be good for to take your pictures and then we can mail merge like this information that's what I have to yeah let me know if I can help with that okay um and maybe you know maybe we make our own little you know a list or flag sum and and maybe we share them with building inspectors you know just thinking about wa what happened what almost happened with that 17713 Cottage um you know I think um that would be like one thing we can I we definitely do so now I have the the HPC numbers I just ran just put them in groupings by streets um so it's easier for us to to manage and then you can reference if we're going to add anything I'll just add it to the bottom and then we'll just keep these numbers as our reference okay all right great any other questions or comments on this topic okay for public Outreach um we did um our last mayor I submitted for our last mayor's communication about the um the new project flyer um and we're gonna I think we put it in the the kiosk um so we implemented our communication plan for the year um and any updates on the interactive map Brandon yes I was on the phone with the state historic preservation office today to try to um well so the the boundaries still haven't been updated that the luy's last update was in July uh so the next update hopefully we'll have that but um in in terms of um the databases that uh go along with the prop the survey reports I'm trying to track down um the specific properties are 61 North Main Street and two South Main Street the uh these These are the properties that are missing the uh property reports and aren't on on the interactive map because they weren't part of the survey reports that were delivered to us and so still trying to track down and see if they are in a database with the state that we can generate property reports from and if not then we should include those two uh those two properties on a whatever the next 61 North Main that's the corner Victorian uh and at at Parkplace West the north side of Parkplace West okay and to South Main Street which is the fire Museum and the current Firehouse oh okay so we don't we don't have property reports for these and they're either so The Old Firehouse the old fire right that's the only part and while we're bringing that up I just pulled out my note I forgot about this note so we talked about one Big Barn Road I should add that to this list because that would be added it should be on this and then from our presentation at the library of the of the property report uh the owner of 14 North Main Street which is on the corner of Scott Avenue and Main stre when the survey was done the house was a total wreck and it's been updated and he approached me he said Can it can the property survey be updated so the only way we can do it is to have a professional do it so I have to I'm GNA add that to this I'll put that at the end oh yeah so there'll be three properties We'll add to this got it I would just make yeah just to note that it's just we need to refresh the uh thing it's not because it hasn't been done just because yeah well two properties somehow were missed um and then one to update Y and that's are we do we have the fire remember the old fire station we talked about this the old fire that's the one that's two South Sor you talking about the old old one or the one that's the one on Maplewood the one on Maplewood it's mentioned doesn't have its own property report but it was surveyed on I think it might be 10 Maplewood uh it's it's mentioned and it's listed as a contributing res ource it just isn't described at all as to what's on it just talks about it being on the property I know I feel like it doesn't do it justice it doesn't do it justice that one yeah I think we should add it and make it its own report okay yeah okay I'll add that um and then that uh and the hall that we have uh the old the the fir M museum is already on there okay oh is on this list is that saying yeah yeah okay okay fire Museum isn't that two South M Street two South M yeah that's on there already that's already on our we already researched that one right no it's it was should have been in the phase two survey but it's not in in the survey report maybe it's buried in the database of the state that we could rescue but whatever was in the report that's what was submitted to the state it could so I don't want to get too uh the yeah they they generate those property reports from Microsoft access database and it's possible that maybe there's a row in that database for those properties and they just they lost the PDF or they they didn't they didn't generate that or it's possible it was surveyed and ENT entered into the datab base but wasn't included in the report accidentally um that would be a nice surprise yeah I think we have to yes Richard grubber the other company that did the surveys they provide at one time it was CDs that we had to ship down to Trenton so whatever they surveyed it was on the CD and that was given to traten and and the printed report which is what's out there for online now that's the survey so it obviously it got lost in the sh it's not in there so then I say yeah let's just add it to the list my understanding is that the shipo offices are in disarray right now because they're undergoing Renovations they sent everyone home and they're just shuffling everything all over the place so there will be a a delay until they're able to even look for anything I'll add I'll add that to the list yeah and then along these lines uh this I don't think this requires surveying it might just require this I asked Andrea at the office today the state office um there are four properties four properties that were surveyed in phase one that were built in the 1930s and the surveyor in Phase One didn't officially use 1940 as the end of the period of significance um they used and implied 1929 um and so some of these four properties that are all listed as non-contributing some of them may have retained enough Integrity to be contributing and can res survey them if if it was just for our own local usage then we if we felt comfortable as a commission deciding whether they're contributing or not then Andrea said that that would be appropriate if we wanted it updated in the state or um Federal listings then we would probably need a professional well Richard grub did that so we can add what of those properties uh they are 13 Bunker Hill Drive nine Bunker Hill Drive 67 North Main Street and 91 North Main Street okay 13 Bunker Hill 19 N Bunker Hill and what was that other 67 North M and 91 North m okay I'll add that because grub did those and you know so he came up with that period of significance or err sign so which changed in the third survey they kind well actually in phase two they used 1940 okay um phase one recommended it but didn't actually use it okay it's a cute little house I think it should be it any other final comments okay questions okay um okay next topic we have is student ex aicio volunteer for commission I apologize for sending this around last minute but um so you probably haven't had a chance to read it but but anyway uh Jennifer asked me to kind of take the asgo version of this and uh modify it for our purposes so this is uh adjusted for Cranbury and um students at Princeton High um and um but but the asigo document was a good place to start and so I don't know if if uh we want to table this or you know discuss it at the next meeting um in more detail but I just have a question on this must be a student at Princeton High School there's I'm sure number of cranberry students who don't go to Princeton High School there's other high schools that they yeah I I was debating that too wondering whether whether you know it should be just a high school student yeah I think we should St it who's a resident in yeah in town I think we should allow like if they go to private private school or whever they okay well I that's an EAS one of the questions that came on oober 28 TC meeting do this expected to be a permanent position oh maybe we we make sure we indicate this would be like a onee term have to do a resolution that's why I'm asking oh well like a permanent opening that would be recurring through years it's an opportunity for high school student that doesn't mean every year you're going to get somebody Bas right but I think we should make it that no student can participate for more than one year I would say because that way then if there is a lot of demand someone else has a chance to do it yeah I'm you know we don't want like people to I was thinking that it would only be limited to one year yeah exactly they go to college and stuff but yeah are we targeting seniors or could be well this has Juniors Juniors and seniors prefer sorry Juniors would probably be better why is that because they're not halfway out the door yeah yeah yeah I agree okay juniors are preferred do so say 2025 we have a student that's interested and you guys decide you have many students interested you guys decide who it is and you pick one for that first year not knowing if it's permanent can we have the student participate or do we have to put a resolution that's what I'm still not clear about why would you have to do a resolution I don't know that's think we should make it like a trial thing I Wasing it was going to be permanent I say we make it a trial thing um for the first year and see how it goes you know and then if it if it works well then we could maybe then explore making it a permanent thing but maybe we just start with seeing how it goes first it's not I mean the P this position is not a voting member any you know it's just for it's a it's a learning experience it's a learning experience for us for their input and then they're learning about how this all works so as temporary you don't have to put a resolution but do you guys have to do anything even introduce it to the TC meeting yeah okay and I think we do a communication in the mayor's email saying that you know you know you can submit your interest you know well I was going to I was thinking too that I probably should add a statement at the bottom that you know interested candidates should submit their qualifications exactly exactly so one that got You' now Rewritten for yeah okay so we can forward that to you once I make these changes yeah I would just add in what they need to do to apply and and um indicate that it would be like you know a Max of one year um and I guess to apply they should just you know submit a like a CV or a letter or you know I don't think we need to make this more complicated you know yeah I mean Junior's having CVS they all have things that they're doing for whatever there're always a right to read anyway yeah again it's it's a learning experience they may say they're they think they're interested we never see anybody in the audience here I think a letter just a letter of interest expressing why you feel but they may attend a couple of meetings and decide no this is not you know um Robin what is the typical pathway for volunteers to submit their CVS an online submission form yeah oh even better yeah so I should use that so it's online uh it's already existing on the there is one already existing yes okay I'll look on the website that's great have the easy simplest way okay good so next topic um Revolution New Jersey any updates on I think anything nothing really okay I mean they did very well with the T tids attended and they're planning things for next year know what they are yet commission training I did one it was the uh National Park Service adjacent construction activity in urban areas understanding and mitigating the risks when was it yeah how long was it uh it was on October 8th and it was one hour now how are you getting notified by these that was things have been dry up I used to get like every month I would get a notification of training yeah come through the the cranberry okay email that one in particular I get those in my yeah it doesn't go in my main thing it goes in my other email box yeah there was one that I did uh that was the National Park Service along with the National Alliance of preservation commissions uh titled substitute materials on historic building exteriors evaluation and consideration for use uh it's primarily a discussion about preservation brief 16 which was updated a year ago um so it's talking about sidings and roofs and decks but not Windows because they're their own Beast um but uh just more less you you're how to evaluate materials rather than a list of like these are acceptable and these are not um looking at things like how the material responds to changes in temperature moisture um and so for example we we often approve fiber cement siding but other ones that depending on the situation might be a good substitute would be like a mineral polymer composite a cellulose fiber polymer composite cellular PVC so you really have to look at the specific application how how it's going to be used and what it's replacing in that situation to really make a judgment call there isn't it's yeah so anyway I I thought it was that sounded interesting it was very interesting um um and that was on YouTube and it was done over the summer and somehow there's only like 60 something views this many months later so I'm one of the few people in the country who have watched this video um I do recommend can you send me the link for that yes yeah hey I'd like to be 62 I mean yeah if you could share that awesome okay lastly new homeowner letters yes I sent one to 37 North Main Street and two Maplewood Avenue which we actually did just receive an application for so they got the notice and uh minutes I just made a minor uh correction or up just added some clarity to um St we were talking about Awards historic preservation Awards local uh about the the property on cranberry Neck Road with the barns that they presented application for and I just stated a planned renovation to those barns as potentially that could be a award even though it's not in a historic district or anything I did it I put it in it's in red some Brendan I think you did some or somebody did something in red yeah it was your section I saw a bunch of red when I was reading it this afterno I have no changes yeah I I don't have any edits either good job Robin that was a really fun one to do got to be as nice as I could um okay discussion uh you want to do we right a motion to approve the minutes second all right roll call Miss sumeer yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and Mr Sao yes thanks motion passed okay discussion is there anything left uh public comment no public comment um make a motion to adjourn second okay bab say hi hi yay