##VIDEO ID:4uJFDHm3Rag## to the flag of the United States of America the for it stands [Music] Nation I know not stand Robin statement of adequate notice under the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act was provided on January 18 2024 of this meeting's date time and location the agenda was mailed to the cranber press and Trenton Times posted on the township Bolton board mailed to those requesting personal notice and five with the municipal clerk roll call Miss Anderson she is just walking in now she said here miss El badawi here thank you Mr fonte here Mr Giddings here Miss Jones just welcome Mr milenberg here Mr Stewart here Mr Whitman here and Miss Bon here Full House thank you next we have approval of minutes from the July 11th meeting if you've had a chance to review those minutes if you have any comments I'm happy to move the minutes of July 11th 2024 second roll call for the July 11 2024 minutes Miss albadawi yes Mr fante yes m Mr Giddings yes Miss Jones yes Mr milenberg yes Mr Stewart yes Mr Whitman yes and Miss Bon yes thank you motion passed Robin excellent job on those minutes that was a uh very um detailed meeting and yeah you did well thank you okay moving on we will now look at the resolution PB 38623 uh apologies I will back up uh do we have any public comment for non-agenda items anyone hear for a non-agenda item that needs to speak all right lots of head shaking thank you hearing none we'll close public comment for open non-agenda items next on the agenda is resolution PB 386-232-8060 given the number um may I have a motion uh to approve the resolution I'm happy to Second roll call for the resolution Miss alwi yes Mr fante yes Mr Giddings yes Miss Jones yes Mr milenberg yes Mr Stewart yes Mr Whitman yes and Miss Bond yes thank you motion passed excellent okay next up we have application PB 39424 biocon generics you'll need to be sworn in so follow start off by saying that I've reviewed the applicants notices and affidavit and everything's in order and you have jurisdiction to proceed and uh you don't want to swear me not going to swear on the attorney anybody who's going to uh testify today on your behalf the applicant and our board professionals um you can raise your right hand all three of you just in case please okay you swear that the testimony that you're about to give tonight is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got I do okay so thank you for that I'm gonna forewarn you our engineer just had knee replacement so he's going to be trying to do as much as he can sitting down if that's okay of course I had an opportunity to pull out a laser pointer that I don't think I've used in years and I left it in the office today so apologize for that uh that said uh one more housekeeping iting I just want to confirm the memos that we have we have an August 27 engineering memo a September 3rd traffic memo and August 30th planning memo that's it right okay thank you so with that said uh dino spini on behalf of the applicant bio Eric's Inc which is a tenant at One Duncan Drive block one lot 5.01 which is in the rool research office in light industrial zoning District uh the owner of the property Cedar book group and we do have a representative in case testimony is needed from the owner um this evening we're seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for changes to the parking lot to install three new dust collectors um fencing and ballards uh which require the relocation of three Ada parking spaces that will result in five less spaces than currently exist we will still have ample parking is set forth on the plans and we'll testify to uh this evening we meet the standards uh the building that the applicant is located in it's approximately 77,78 foot building of which they occupy approximately 52,7 39 square feet um they are uh in the bi in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry and that is what they do at at this location um so with that said as an opening I'm going to um you've been sworn in Kevin can you just State your credentials make sure you're still licensed and all those uh Kevin brocko b r a k l I am now with Robert's Engineering Group Princeton Junction as merged with them uh I am professional engineering good standing and I testified in front of this board a few times kindly request to accept them licensed in New Jersey yes I am and how many boards would you say that you have uh testified in front of 30 Central Jersey pretty much everyone in Central Jersey and how long have you been an engineer uh about 40 years now thank you I'll accept your credentials thank you thank you madam chair um Kevin I'm I'm not going to ask you specific questions as you know and I wish I had my laser pointer but what I I'd like you to do is go through um the exhibits um and um basically explain to the board uh what the changes are that are being made where they are um and our our exhibit you note start more General and then they narrow down to the specific area that we're making changes to so we thought that was the best way to go so um laed up there as exhibit A1 and it says boundary and partial topographical survey did the rest of the board get copies of this the small copies of these I know they came this afternoon but I don't know if you had a chance to unless you just want to use you know what's up there I apologize does this look like the site plan that they already have the existing condition plans so to speak yeah all right and we'll talk about it as we go through each one absolutely so Kevin if you want to start with so nothing's been changed from what you submitted to the board like the last no no no no okay whenever everyone good correct y okay this I want to mention is foundary and parti C the survey which is included in the set of plans this is the overall uh site uh it's at the corner of Duncan Drive and Cedarbrook Drive in the uh Cedarbrook uh Industrial Park uh uh it has the parking is located the majority of the park is located oh I'm sorry why don't we give you the mic we're gonna give you this mic and then you can talk into it we record our meetings and understood you'll be exhausted in the next like you want me to move it up closer no no this is this is fine it's uh so anyway again this is an overall view of the site uh and shows the existing conditions parking up towards the front of of Duncan Drive that's where the entrance comes off of and the building which is uh as P said 77,78 square feet it's a one-story masonary building there is some parking in the rear and this is the area of concern for this application uh storm waterer manager bit in the front it uses a wet Pond or a retention Pond if you will and if you notice also notice there's a lot of the property is also in a conservation eement uh and that's due to Wetlands and uh a streem encroachment line that exists there so that that remain that's going to remain untouched uh to uh address one of the concerns of the buffer area uh in the rear since again we are we're talking about this rear parking area where we like to put the dust collectors the existing parking for this site's about 25 feet and the adjoining property which is an office building parking is 25 feet so there's about a 50 foot and it's a pretty dense uh vegetated buffer there uh in fact from this side there's actually it's bmed up from uh from The Office Park Side let's say excuse me when just because it's being recorded when you say this side could you just it's like the East Side be let called the East along the Eastern property line uh that area is well vegetated uh with uh conifers and so forth so it it's pretty well screened off if you will it's in a mature State absolutely absolutely yeah of course we're going to go to exhibit A2 which is Mr breel while he is changing that you're showing lot uh you're showing block and lot on there as block one lot five1 right and are you bordering lot for Block one no yes okay yes I'm sorry okay no that's that's a one that is that's not your bad that's my bad just want to make sure I'm looking at the right application thank you you're welcome this is a a more detailed view of the rear parking area that we're we would work with uh as you can see that we're looking to put the pads they're highlighted in yellow it looks green but it's yellow uh that's where the pad placement would be for the dust collectors and these are the areas that where the parking will uh we if you will took away some adaa compliant parking and we relocated them here here and here uh and Dave to address your comments on the distances too they're about equal they move to a different location but they're from a door about equal all the way across so each door yeah well I except this is the back of the building it's the back of the building but but it's to to the doors yeah yeah so the distances are very similar 24 feet 14 feet so that that part hasn't changed it just Services different doors can can you elaborate on that because the doors aren't clear from the plan they are not and are these doors all I mean I don't know if they're emergency doors that no there there access doors to the units to the street and they can get from wherever that is in the building to the to the main entrance if they wanted I I would imagine I don't know the interior laid out of the building I would I would assume so that you could work your way to the front of the building if you needed to through through those but that's those those would service those doors uh into the suite and those rear doors cin had been servicing oh yeah that that has not changed over time and so should I take it that each of these places where there's big gaps are where those doors are that is correct there a lot of them have a a garage door if you will and then they have a a pedestrian door if you uh next door so each opening there you see those openings that's exactly the setup uh that's right when there are garage doors for trucks to well they're just for to uh load material or take material out it's not like a parking situ Lo it's a loading it's a loading area it is a loading dock okay no it's not a dock it's just a loading area loading area yes it's all the same grade got it so as I said that the highlighted areas are where the pads are going and they're all going to be enclosed into with an 8 foot chain link Security Fence U with obviously access to that uh I guess we can go to the last one now yeah the next the next one A3 is more of a blow up of the situation as you can see so we have the fencing around there's here's one pad that's going to go that this one's going to be a joint right next to an existing dust collector so we have one there and then you we're doubling up on another area just s south of that and it's it's a a 14x 20t enclosure which will have the two dust collectors as you can see these are the new adaa parking areas uh there was a commment about providing Ada ramps uh instead of having them having to cross through the parking area we can provide Ada Ada ramp where necessary uh there's actually it would only be one additional one that's Ada that's an ADA ramp and that is also so we would put one right here uh again this is the buffer area and it's about 50 ft wide as you said mature vegetation exists there which would provide actually it looks like year round uh screen um Kevin can I I'll if I could answer just a few follow questions so one of the questions in in the engineering report was regard to lighting and whether it's fishing or necessary in connection with the dust removal but my my understanding is from the from the applicant is that these dust collectors only need to be cleaned out uh I don't know once every three weeks so they're not going to be cleaned out in a day at at night time they're going to be taken care of during the day so lighting's not going to be an issue there and uh there's also a question with regard to fire hydrants in the area yeah unfortunately I pull that back up yeah if you could pull the overall one A1 pleas sorry um there's a hydrant up here near the entrance and there's which is actually across the street there's one at the corner of Cedar Brook Drive and Duncan Drive and at on 5.02 there's a hydrant down down this down Cedar Brook Drive now this the fire suppression system is a wet system it's directly connected into the public water uh so that for supression that's how they they handle that uh I think that's what the concern was with Dave I was also just I'd like some see some testimony on the on the type of material that's being collected dust collector probably based on what they do there right because and that would be a question for the applicant not just not just dust and you know the floor it might also be some product yeah correct and we'll have testimony from the applicant about that but to to give you a sense in simplest terms it's almost as if you're not supposed to take medications at home and put them into the water system down your drain they're doing it except with air particles and the like with their manufacturing progress uh so I'll let the applicant explain that but that's really the general simplest way that these shouldn't just be let go into the atmosphere if you will so but I'll have the comment has to do with dust sometimes can be yes particles Flash and I'll have that and yeah going be able to testify to that he's not going anywhere but do you have any questions of them now just from a uh accounting standpoint two dust collectors and one existing there's one existing three new three new and they're all dust collectors that is correct so total of four that is correct but one is existing that's correct thank you sure you mentioned chain link fence is there oh I didn't see a hand you go ahead first so uh you mentioned that you would build a new Ada ramp are the current 88 ramps up the current uh they they seem to be yes they they seem to with the elevations and so forth they seem be fine are the are the chaming fence screened in any way uh it's not shown that way but that's something I I'm sure we can address here I guess I'll be curious to hear from the professionals later on their their recommendation or reference on that and it certainly was raised in the professionals reports and we can certainly had that discussion but again I think part of the testimony is we screen them who are we screening them from is really what it comes down to since there's already a buffer around the perimeter of the property um but when was the uh uh existing unit upgraded and replaced uh I thought I can maybe that's question for the um I was there before the meeting I'm still lost trying to figure out where entry doors are where the handicap parking is where the entry doors are expir is is that where is that located what say say that again please expir it's it's the tenant next further down uh uh I guess the last Bay or the second to last Bay they have a shared common Bay the other end of the building so I believe it's the second to last Shar okay on theth on this going south yeah going south okay we're we got to clean up this testimony because this is important testimony we need to have um we can certainly swear man we identify who they are when they're going to be speaking and such right so for the board depending on how we do this because we're going to have concerns about the screening even though no one's going to see it that's important to us so we're GNA have questions about the screening we're looking at you as the engineer to say where these are going we will have questions about do they have to be on the parking lot can they not be inside why do they they have to be outside we'll have questions like that uh Dave Andy and uh Liz were going to want your testimony we've read your reports um so I just want to try and re Us in here and get a little bit of organization so that we're getting the information that this Board needs but in an orderly fashion so that said um you're your plan is to have the engineer uh give his testimony and then the which he's almost she is done with other than questions from the board and we'll certainly get them back on the record if need be next is going to be the uh applicant which is the tenant in the building and the operator of the facility okay and then we have a representative of the landlord as well if there are further questions from the board that's terrific so why don't we allow them their testimony okay um because I know this board has questions we have had many applicants in the same um uh development sure and um so that's why uh they have the questions that they do so I think we'll finish with your testimony then we'll get you on record and we'll get your testimony to Mr Giddings question so we'll we'll redo that and then if we need the owner uh the property owner I'm so glad you're here because we will have a few questions from from that standpoint so let's finish with you go to you and then go to our professionals and then the board bats clean up we okay with that board good all right Works coach let's go Kevin anything further I have nothing further as the board has additional questions for me we will we will have questions so I'll be I yeah we're we're happy for you to sit right there given your surgery chair up the applicant we have members on this board who have had that surgery so they are feeling fre you right now so we want to make sure that you're comfortable yeah Madam chair one question for you do you want us to answer Mr Giddings questions on the record now we'll answer his question as soon as we swear in uh as as soon as we swear as soon as Jonathan comes to the table okay then we'll continue with Mr gettings and then we'll let him uh do his uh presentation okay then so we'll have uh Jonathan answer those questions then we'll go to the operator tenant of the facility applicant and then you have any further questions Mr johnon he's here right terrific good all right okay thank you all right Kevin I'm out G have to ask you to get up why don't you come up just for the one question for now and then Jonathan just say your name for the record again and your title Jonathan Simon vice president of construction CED Center which is the owner yes of the property so the question for Mr Giddings was with regard to uh a different user I'm sorry owner of the property or owner representing Cedarbrook representing Cedarbrook correct property own the property owner property owner got it okay Mr K you want to restate your question that way it's all in the record so I think the real what I'm trying to figure out is where the entries are so are all all of the entries in the back are they are they are any of those the only entry to each each one of the spaces has its own individual pedestrian entry in the front of the building which I gu yeah towards there in the back of the building all these spaces that you see represent loading dock doors and next to each loading dock door is also a pedestrian door which is usually managed by uh someone from whoever the tenant is you know for receiving shipping I guess they put the handicap parking back there because that's the closest door to their entries right because the parking is a is is across the um moat there in front of the building literally and then they have to cross over that walkway into the into the building so the Ada and handicap parking is closer in the back which would be the east side of the building the parking is on the West Side far away from the front door and I think from the pictures I took out there the locations of the handicap parking aren't matching what I'm seeing on site plan so I think this is something that needs to be worked out because each entry there's handicap parking in front of X whatever the name of it is yes um that's not shown on this plan so it's really the handicap parking should be located at each door to each tenant space you know so I that all needs to be cleaned up cleaned up so is the thought that since there is not a handicap space next to that one ten you mention there is one that's not shown on the plan oh it's not okay there is one that's not better that way than so I'm just kind of calling into question all the handic is exists sure that the handicap parking is shown in proper location thank you they should show all the man doors not the doors and and then there should be space next each one not an issue since since you're here and you weren't up before could I just reiterate my question for the record which is because I'm hearing that these are back of house doors that are often manned by receiving or so forth and in my experience those are often locked doors and not manned 100% of the time so in this case both tenants have some though these doors are unlocked and either always manned or accessible to the public area I'm just trying to make sure that we don't have someone in a handicap spot who then gets out of the car gets to the door the door is not opened and no one's there to open it so the all the spaces that are currently leased out in the back they either have someone representing the company in the back accepting packages and things like that or they're usually open into a public area a common space that we have back there so yes they would be able to get it okay thank you may I ask a question of course okay um so I'm just trying to understand because you'll have there will be four dusters back there and I know there's a generator I think taking up another space and I guess I'm trying to understand who Parks back there and and to what extent you know and maybe this is operational for the own for the business but maybe as the land landlord you know better who else is using the space and using that parking area yeah right now I mean the only people who really parking back there are it's really up to the company we when they lease out the spaces you know they get x amount per space and it's really up to them whoever Parks wherever they all are associated he would be able to answer that a little bit better thank you okay I guess because he can't ask answer for the other tenant to the best of your knowledge is the tenant using that area for employees or employees and guests employees okay thank you okay good don't go away yeah going anywhere don't go anywhere good evening s been sworn in but State your full name for the record and your title my name is Prasad upati I head the site operations for bi biocon genics at the site so we're going to start very generally how does that sound so I think I explained what biocon does there but just give them a brief description and hopefully my description your description matches what I've said so far yeah so bioin generics has been in the site uh from last six years I think and we have phase one completed where we actually do pharmaceutical manufacturing it's oral solids manufacturing so basically it powders tablets and capsules we don't have capability to do liquids or injectables that's a separate ball game so we do only tablets and capsules right now so we are in the process of like expanding the phase to the it's already a least phas we have 18,000 Square fet which we intend to build out to expand the capacity so that's what we're talking here about so it's plain phace itical generic prescription drugs and tell the board a little bit and hopefully it was accurate again but tell us a little bit what the dust collectors do and what they collect and how they work and sure so uh dust collectors there are two roles for the dust collectors one is to keep the clean rooms powder free as much as possible because oral solids is expected that there will be some powder but what a powder get generated it's it's sucked out from the room by using the vacuum section other thing is for the actual uh Process Equipment like for example compression machines or coating machines what excess waterw is getting generated because of the Rolling of the tablets that's getting extracted back into the dust collector so these are two purposes for the dust collectors and could those dust collectors work inside or they do they need to work outside uh it can work inside the building but right now we do not have any space to put them inside and plus also it's also something related to safety so ideally these are better Reed outside than inside and and it works better outside than exactly and um part of the expansion you're looking to add a second shift correct that's correct and as far as the that parking lot one of the things the board was asking was um who generally parks there is there employees is it guest is it visitors who generally parks in the parking lot in the back no visitors park in the back right now we have access for the warehouse employees I think we have one person with some limited disability so he parks in the back but most of the employees come to the front entrance and um okay that's fine so um and tell me a little bit about uh what the second shift were at how many current employees you have how many new employees will be shared so right now we have a strength of like 40 employees on site which I think out of which 36 of 35 of them operate in the first shift or the general shift and five of them operate in like a second shift places so we are looking at adding up to maybe the same number 35 to 40 people more when the expansion gets completed when when both the phase one and phase two will be operating on two shift basis so you're looking at maybe on a second shift basis if your answer is over a second shift basis maybe we'll have up to like 20 to 25 employes in the second and although as the documents that we've submitted uh and verified by the township professionals we satisfy the parking requirements but also from a practical standpoint you've never had an issue with parking with your employees correct there's there's always been more than ample space with the spaces that are there that that's correct yes okay um so uh tell us a little bit about how the dust collectors uh are treated cleaned um fire uh issues combustible issues and and like as much as you can sure so uh the dust collectors are independent units working automatically of course there power connected they work independently there are no controls on the dors all the controls are located within the building and from our experience of the phase one operating on two shet basis they're required to be clean maybe the drum which collects actual water it's airtite drum in which it's collected the powder is collected that's maybe changed once in three to four months so and how is it changed does it need to be cleaned or is it removed like a filter and then a new one put in exactly it's removable and ma'am then the new one gets put in locked up the thing approximately how big is the filter it's around the drum itself is around like I would say around like 15 Gallons MH and then that's closed up it's actually lined with double polyline bags which is like sealed off tagged and then it's given to a company called SDS they do the control destrction as for the DP and ped we're trying to determine how much space you're going to need to service the equipment how much space you're going to need to get around it you do have ballards uh which this board would uh recommend um and the the larger concern is that's a lot of exterior equipment um I'm glad that you brought uh the landlord with you because I would be hesitant without the landlord here um I was on site today I'm not sure if Mr Giddings was on site today as well um there's a lot of construction equipment strewn there's a lot going on back there uh and you got cars coming in and out so whatever this board decides this evening um it is uh for the betterment of the site as a whole and also for uh the safety and the um and the Aesthetics of the site uh when I was there today I saw at least 30 people out for a walk um and I'm sure you chose that location because it is incredibly beautiful and peaceful um I'm concerned about the noise that these will produce uh our board's concerned about what they will look aesthetically in the back what you're covering them with uh chain link fence is usually not uh acceptable for for our uh group um so those are the kind of things that we would be concerned about so talking about space and how much space is needed around them you've had the other one in for how long for the last six years and the chain link fence that's around it seems like ample space no issue no problem no yeah okay so to answer the question ma'am so I essentially said all of that for nothing because the other one's been there for six years okay so so there is some history that's the good part as well it's not as if he's saying hey we're gonna start operating tomorrow we've never done this and we don't know so that is the good news and I think we'll be able to answer all the questions that you and the rest of the board uh may have um so with that said and with the changing is it is it someone from your organization that changes out the filter or is the company the disposal company that comes in changes out the filter how does that no our engineering technicians go out and change the drum whenever it gets there's actually it's automatic sensor there which senses power it tells you and the differential tells them that filters are choked or the drum is full and autoally go put it off change the drum lock it up it's like your air conditioning filter to like goes on you got to clean it out and then the company comes in and disposes exactly they the drum is sealed off and handed over to the SDS company which come and fix it up and um have you had any issue as the chair said with regard to the space availability or is it more than ample space for for all that operation to take place so currently what we saw ma'am that space is well good enough it's like maybe 2 three feet required the only servicing you do is change the drum whenever it's full other is to change the filters and the F filter the way Donaldson dor operates it that it has compress a supply so it just vibrates in between so it keeps the filters clean I wasn't aware that you had it for six years so um if you're satisfied and you're willing to do three more exactly the same way exactly the same okay and from and from an Aesthetics perspective I don't know if you need the chain link for security but uh would uh a vinyl that's a great question why the chain link fence it's just to keep some some some sort of enclosure which was maybe has been required by the township or something yeah there's no like it's a self designed unit it's very safe though there's nothing to operate on that all the controls are within the building so it's just to cover it up and of course there's parking so maybe it was put in to say that you know people do not go and like hit it or just on that so Mr hoer what would we normally require for a piece of equipment sitting in a parking lot that has a large air uh duck that goes up to the roof of the building two stories up ballards I know for protection so it doesn't get hit Mike not Mike fante he's he's well aware the fence the fence really there's only you go to a decorative fence um like a jarth fence or something aluminum but that's harder to put slats in a a chain link fence you can put you can put slats on a 45 or whatever the uh uh Dimension is and actually hide the thing or at least hide most of it or you'd go with a solid fence which is plastic which may not be a good idea adjacent to Machinery so um I we're happy to take whatever recommendation I mean I probably would rather go with the chain link vence and put slats in it so that you don't you don't see them but it's not very pretty it's not very pretty give me give me one second for a sidebar the the jar um site that put the chillers in in the parking lot similar to this sort of situation they have a York fence uh that's like one side one side but they also have uh they also have a I'm gonna say a black anodized chain link fence that they do have the strips in either or um look nicer than the chain link fence well if if the applicant can find a an aluminum fence that is slottable there's a word I just made up uh then um that would be acceptable I would think that would that would be the best of all worlds we're we're happy to do that and if the board were willing to grant our application this evening obviously we're not going to come up with the type of fence this evening but we'd be happy to work with the professionals and if it's acceptable to them if we can't agree we'd obviously have to come back to the board it's Machinery so you really don't want you want some air flow for heat dissipation Etc if you're going to do that I would just suggest that you retroactively apply it to the fence for the existing one as well that's certainly fair enough M chair a question just real quick did you have to get board approval for the existing dust dester I'm not sure I was not there in 2018 when that was done so maybe oh um it was a different zoning officer maybe that's the reason yeah I'm just curious if if if a board approved the fence that's no they have not been you've been here six years you were on the board for six years yeah oh yeah here since 10 just a quick I want to Circle back to your your manufacturing process and the types of drugs that you're manufacturing what are they are could you give us an idea what types of drugs you're manufacturing for you know in a general sense like what what for treating what kind of patients and things like that tablets so right now what is in the plan sir is basically all the statens because Bon has a it's a vertically integrated company they have their own manufacturing process for fermentation so they make all the statins which is basically the Lipitor which is called ER Statin calcium okay Ros Statin Sim Statin so we have four of those molecules which are being transferred into the site and maybe there will be some more hypertension drugs like and all stuff so it's basic anything generic pharmaceutical okay nothing you know to do with like oxycoton or things things like that because I guess the the only concern and it's sounds crazy but the only concern is when you take your your filters out if you were manufacturing those types of materials and there's dust in there somebody would could steal could steal these filters [Music] and you know what I'm saying so and that was the other thing like when they take these filters out are they just left there near the filters and the disposal company or are they secured somehow they secured inside the building okay and comes in a regular schedule and picks it up okay and there is a manifest we signed off by both the parties that we handed over like so many drums they received so many drums for control destruction okay so so when you when you you there's actually a whole qaqc when you take the filters out yes there and then there's a process where you record everything and things are okay that's actually good so on top of obviously this board having jurisdiction with regard to the site they do have other authorities that they have to answer to as well well they're manufacturing drugs yes they got everybody they got everybody looking at them I understand not l anyone that you know they're kind of out there willing to no no no I I that's the reason why I'm asking no and I'm actually happy that you're expanding your business because you know we're actually our town is now home to a number of companies that are manufacturing Pharmaceuticals and and doing R&D work and I think that's a a good testimony to our town that people are attracted to Cedarbrook so um to do that type of thing so um okay um you mentioned early in your testimony on why you would prefer it to be outside you said that it would be safer can you qualify on what would be unsafe on the inside that would not be unsafe on the outside I think the testimony was that it's more efficient but I could be mistaken the word safe was definitely used but I don't remember in what con I don't know what you meant in the context which is why I'm asking for clarity so the one two things I mentioned was that that we have very limited space within the building for the scale of operation that we are planning there within the building and the second thing is from the point of operation is that it's when you're putting this dust Vector inside a like let's say technical space where there are other like you know heat exchanges and all within the building sitting in the vinity of all of the equipment that point of view it's ideal to put it outside it's independently operating and then from a safety point of view what I mentioned was that this is collecting dust into the thing just in case some happens some leak happens so it's better outside than inside and do you know the to what how flammable the material being collected is yeah I'll answer that so what is this is collecting is basically a mix of powders basically it can be the API which is the active pharmaceutical ingredient the actual drug which causes the pharmacological action other things will be like very inert in inactive ingredients which we call it as basically like micro Crystal and cell L starch PR starch magnesium for lubricants so none of these things which we use in general proc any formulation company uses or Farm Company these are not flamable items are so just to clarify you're worried about it being near a heat exchanger but it's not flammable so what exactly what's the fear about the operation of so many equipment in that space sitting there there's some vacuum sections for the other Process Equipment inside so you just think it creates a cluttered un SAA exactly not not specifically that something could trigger okay got it and the size of they one other question and I apologize I thought I didn't hear the safe so um uh with regard to noise I don't think we touch about on that obviously we're going to comply with the DCA noise requirements and we will not exceed same correct just to follow up on the questions about your manufacturing um are your are any like sort of biologic agents or any kind of infectious agents that could be spread no we do not so and so anything that would could potentially Escape into the air would not be something that could you know cause any kind of disease or any kind of harm to people in general we we are not in that business of the like I'm sure what you're talking about like IMO supress or and all so we are not in that business we do not any of that scale in the company and that's not what your expansion is thinking anticipating to include so if if you were pulling this dust out of the building and it was escaped it somehow escaped into the air it wouldn't necessarily like sort of be harmful to people walking by or within the vicinity no in other words if you had a catastrophic failure of the air handling system and it wink of fluie yeah you know the dust isn't going to go up and somebody's going to pass out next to it or whatever yeah but everyone's cholesterol yeah exactly I think I'm taking two or three of them what they're already making there so okay that was that was my main concern about also the even if something catastrophic happens the machine has controls where there safety it will trigger alarm and shut off the system so no suction happens from the building okay so at it's isolated and because it's a you know you have one now and you're going to ultimately have three more three more so it's an exp significant expansion of dust being pulled out yeah but I'm assuming an equal expansion of drugs being produced is that one of the reasons for the it looks like for man and I'm sure I'm hope I'm able to address this there four units looks like M lot but as I'm saying the drum a 15 gallon drum is changed once in 3 four months okay there not a lot of BU coming up but you know we want to keep the equipments clean and the area clean where it's operating so it has to provided as for the FDA things so so what why did you need to add so many because out of the three we are asking for the current one is actually hooked up to the area it's cleaning the area the other three which you're going to add one of them will be for the expansion area and two of them are connected to the actual coating machines where we do the aesthetic coating of the tablets directly Mach so there's one for each stage of the process uh not every station requires it Bic talking for the quoting machines and one for the one for the okay okay thank you I have a followup question oh I'm sorry if you're ready go ahead actually sorry it you were heading in the direction that I wanted to ask and so just looking at at how you laid out the whole expansion process and you um it seems that you are indicating this is the the this is the magnitude of expansion you might expect for this business uh you've talked about how inside is going to be a little busy maybe a little cluttered um I was just sort of taking my mind away from the fact that you had 40 employees with one machine and now you're putting another 40 uh employees but you required three more machines and so that wasn't sitting like that the math wasn't working out for me but I think your question helped me in that direction um but with regards to the expansion and what you're doing right now do you foresee that you need to expand again or will this be it in the current 52,000 ft I think this to be it so I don't think there's any room for further expansion we basically building out the complete space and this has multiple rooms there's 11 rooms and the warehousing in the back so like people are spread not into one area they're like spread into different rooms thank you when we have our cholesterol under control and you're no longer making this um you are leasing this property correct that's correct okay one one item that we have not touched on I think it was in the traffic report was uh deliveries and the like tell us a little bit about the delivery schedule type of vehicles and the like and and again that was my next question from uh from our traffic consultant to just make sure because you do have handicap uh spaces there you've got deliveries and then you've got uh parking on both sides so and if it would help a lot if you could bring the board back up blown up plan which load which B of the building you occupy which loading do that helpful and which entry yes you go to tell them generally and then we can go back to the bo current 34,000 ft that we are currently operating in phase one we have three loading areas and three adjust and pedest doors with the additional 18,000 we'll be getting one more loading area and one more pedestrian so there basically four pedestrian doors on the back separate from the loading area did you point out which ones and where where is your space and we should we can't see anything sorry sorry so that's no l one two and three one and then approximate area again where your space this and where are your rear where would where's your rear entry doors uh right next to the Loading box one two three and there'll be one more and which which of those are manned where if a handicapp person you know parked which one of those doors would they be able to get help to get in so we have access but the way is back side of the building is complet so right now we use the middle load do for receiving using the materials and we send out the boots this material so all this parking spots you find next to this door here right next this use this one to enter can they use the other unlock Bally and It Gos through an interior Corridor there's a next and what is each loading doc used for each loading bank it's basically the ACT packaging boxes bottles but each one is is right I'm using the midd one and that's the double that's the double door at the middle area that's the one you're using for deliveries and okay so the other ones you're not using maybe the additional um ex um bus collectors that are going in are those the ones that are sitting outside now there is uh yeah there is there are two which are already delivered there one is sitting next to the one which is operating and one in the other side of the parking lot which ma'am saw the first the one is a brand new one which is under order it takes like we have 6 days for so the existing one is 6 years old yes the two that are out there now they're used they're older than that they're used we came along with the Process Equipment yes and then there's one new one yes how are they all going to be D ducted you know where do they get ducted to the set drawings it's just very hard to understand what you're doing it doesn't show I was you know when I looked at the plans I thought oh this is easy we'll be out in 15 minutes then I went out there and I saw what it actually was it's pretty huge and all this exposed Stu work and and now we're gonna add three more of them and we're putting them all over the place so it's I'm trying to understand like did you just have these and therefore that's why you have four of them and could you just have two of them or three of them and they could be ducted you know it's there's not a lot of detail here what's what what they're supporting you know um as you to exp yeah as you as you plan to expand you'll need all four of those from the start but why couldn't you have rather than use two existing ones that you got from somewhere else why could you just buy one new one that big enough to handle all those other operations yeah so the requirement is that uh the quoting machines I spoke about earlier the two quoting machines need to have a direct uh suction from the machines for the code you can do that from one machine we can do that so then the question comes up is that we are actually connecting two dust extraction ports to two machines where they will be handling maybe different molecules FDA doesn't is very very strict about like in cross contamination so you want to keep the two machines oper isolated on from that purpose we need dedicated duting coming out so that's number one the third one which is being used is a common for all the 11 rooms every every room has a port of subraction so all the 11 rooms are connected to a common duct and that comes out to this third machine so there are the specific purpose purpose for each machine I'm going to turn this over to uh our professionals um to see what concerns you have on those sites I'm going to start with Andrew and then Dave and then Liz to make sure that their questions are answered and that this board knows what we're weighing against if I can just ask one followup question to the applicant if that's okay of course I just make sure Madam chair so again Mr KS I certainly get you know we kind of doing this willy-nilly or not but umad please explain and confirm rather that you're doing this pursuant FDA requirements you're not just kind of making this up as you go is that no that is a this called cgmp current gr manufacturing practices so there are some defined rules for you have to comply with in order to manufacture thank you if uh one uh last comment were um with regard to the traffic memo and the planning memo is a little bit more General but traffic memo uh we had no issue with the only item I'm sure you want to talk about is the proposed uh Eevee which is not required we'd be happy to make make ready the two spaces if that would be acceptable not only to you but obviously the board I'm sure right when I go through my letter I'll I'll get to that point um before I get to my letter I'd like to talk about the deliveries and I know um it was mentioned that there's loading docks this board deals with a lot of loading docks uh I I just want the applicant to say what kind of vehicles what size uh Vehicles box trucks you're not dealing with tractor trailers in those also these are not loading docks that we're used to these are not rais loading docks these are um I'm going to say ground level ground okay thanks so basically it's a box truck or sometimes maybe a depending on who delivers from which part of the country mostly it's box trucks because these are like bottles hdp bottles are meting evening the suppliers we the cat closures the excipients the Pharma grade and all this stuff and I expected that answer based on just the area um that you're in usually there's not parking spaces adjacent to um loading docks or large tractor trailers backing into these docks so it's good that you do not have the tractor trailers uh there isn't really turning area and you wouldn't want that next to handicap parking spaces and other parking spaces so that's consistent Vans box trucks they can make their way to these atg grade uh loading areas so that's a a good thing um there's a couple of items in here dimensioning uh the width of the circulation aisle should be dimensioned because it's two-way traffic we want to make sure that the two-way traffic can be maintained uh ballards are proposed uh just make it clear on the plan that the ballards are different than the fence post it's kind of they're both shown close um I I know the existing uh area has the fence enclosure and there's two ballards out front are you proposing more ballards for the other areas or is it going to be just a two in the front my concern is on the sides of a vehicle parked ACC access to that area so yeah we canbe middle the concern too is that we'd want any vehicle whether that be a box truck a van or anybody backing up not to damage your equipment your equipment is high up if it were to be knocked out at the leg something could fall over you certainly wouldn't want that so I would suggest more ballards around the fencing the fence is not going to stop a vehicle backing up um Dimensions provided for the dust enclosure areas just so that we have a I okay I see the dimensions there but if you could actually put the arrows uh dimensioning uh the width and the length oh I can do that yes that's but I do see the dimensions on the plan here now it's under the it says proposed and then shows that area um pavement markings I suggest putting pavement markings I know the existing area has the ballards up front but if maybe there was some stripe around are yeah just just some pavement markings that keep Vehicles if somebody's looking down they can see the pavement markings there you talked about the delivery trucks parking calculations there's plenty of parking uh it is split between the front of the building and the back of the building um the shift work I I wasn't aware that your expansion or your in enhanced you're going forward you're going to add a second shift you said that was 20 to 29 20 to 25 20 to 25 second shift yeah and you have 166 parking spaces out there after losing the five spaces so actually it's more than that it's 196 196 I'm sorry 196 um that's typically good for the shift because if you have more than double uh what the shift the maximum shift would be then you're in good shape because there's always crossover during those shifts there is empty space in the building that's vacant uh again that was accounted for in the parking calculations at a very high standard 250 which it's not likely there's probably going to be some storage space and some lab space and I I took worst case scenario it is the location of the Dust collectors allowing for that empty space to be used by the other tenant or whoever may come in that additional 20 24,000 say 25,000 square foot um will these dust collectors um be in the areas that they would move into I'm not sure which area is vacant I don't believe so this is the area with the last handicap Space Center we again I apologize that we didn't have a line in our porun space there's what it basically lines up without a last handicap space there okay and the southern part of the building then would be the vacant space that they would come in and they would have the parking spaces and the rear doors and the to the South there okay as well as right uh typical size of the parking spaces I know they're existing but if you can put a dimension out there yes I I'll provide a to that handicap ramps she talked about uh they appear to be just make sure that they're in good condition for new handicap parking spaces that the handicap ramps are uh consistent with the ADA requirements and then the EV space bases although it's not required it's always suggested that something be provided and I know that front parking areas away from the building so the opportunity is here and now with these rear parking spaces if you're thinking about this might be the time to get something like that in right so we're happy to make them ready okay that that's satisfying if they're not needed you use that phrase twice can you clarify what you mean by make ready we'll wire them so that uh once someone comes along and wants to put the actual charging stations in they'll be ready to do so why wouldn't you just have a charging station you can't know how do how do you know if you have an employee who wants to well we we don't know whether we have someone who wants to use it or not but the whole industry and I'm no expert on it by any stretch there are companies that are coming in they're releasing spaces to put them and run the charging stations it's quite an evolving industry right now oh I see see the compant to state is make ready so as long as they're laying the we're not even Reed as long as they're uh but the the for our purposes when we're asking for Ev we're asking for make ready we're not asking for finish because there are companies that will come in for free and there are companies that will come in with different plans so as long as they get the infrastructure in that's the that's the first step on the on the site plans but that's a really good question um but we appreciate you being amenable to possibly doing one yeah that'll make your site better yeah okay and that were was the last comment I had in my letter Andrew you were talking about hash lines anything on the um there six bay doors is there anything that designates those as like truck uh shipping receiving is there anything that I don't believe there's anything there now um there is there isn't anything there and typically we like the uh longitudinal lines next to the loading dock so that if a large tractor trailer were backing in they would have some guidance these being box trucks and vans they don't necessarily need that guidance because the cab is not separated from the trailer so it's a one vehicle movement so it should be fine if you're happy yeah it's fine like that and they've been using it like that for six years [Music] okay Andrew quick question now since you're going to have two shifts what about is there adequate Lighting in the back of the building if anybody's going to be parking there and coming in at nighttime and I'm assuming there's adequate Lighting in the front of the building for people to come in if they're going to use the front is Street lighting as well as the lighting on the building itself in the front of the back okay you I would defer to Dave about the lighting but I agree with you that any pedestrians in the parking lot should have lighting and if it was set up as an office um parking area that would be used in the daytime it may not have that security lighting in the right pedestrian lighting so right since they're coming on with the second shift now so currently we do have second shift consisting of five people so again a historical perspective where if there were a lighting issue we think we would know about it by now but they're they are coming in on the second shift so kind of think that the lighting is adequate because no one's have a problem so um we can certainly add to the plans whatever is there uh well I already I show on the plan where the existing wall packs are okay that's on the plan and they're they're they're been installed in accordance with the I guess the previous site plan that was done for the building itself okay Mr hoder will go to you yes thank you um uh in in regard to the lighting I did ask Mr brael to put the lighting on the plan knowing the board would ask that question and there there uh half a dozen wool packs yeah there half you're teaching me how to you know to to to be ready so so but there are about a half a dozen wallpacks on the wall they look like they're 250 Watts uh they're old they're not ODS or anything but they work and they're fine I think and I think they're adequate um one comment or one question for Andrew um is it worth bringing up uh the need for handicap space in the front of the building since they have an excess of parking uh there's no handicaps at the front entrance where you go across the the moat I yeah I don't know if there is but there the only place I would suggest would be along the the strip that goes on the aisles that go around the building there's a strip there good you I just don't don't know if there actually a requirement I I don't think there's any hand is there room to put handicap up in that area yeah is it well there are plenty of spaces that you could take two make into a handicap accessible and put a sign up there actually is a there is I didn't see it I'm sorry okay um so number 15 is a handicap yes okay okay so most of the items in my letter were taken care of um were talked about tonight uh just a couple of things um it looks like the unit is a Motors a bunch of Motors sitting on a fan some kind of a collector and then below that is just really a 55 gallon drum is that correct that's cor so in reality what you do is you take the top off the drum and you seal it with a drum cover that is closed and you can put the ring around it and lock it if you have to yes okay I'm just I'm concerned that nobody can get into this stuff I mean if you have a pile of pharmaceutical sitting on the ground because there was a spill you really shouldn't you shouldn't let people play in it or be near it or anything right that's not that it's hazardous per se but it should not be for the general public and that's I just needed some ideas on testimony on that uh we talked about the fences talked about the handicapped um and the um type of dust that's there talked about the lighting and and we talked about the fire hydrants so I think that's everything in my letter um Aesthetics of the enclosure well the enclosure yeah and we had talked I have I have four items that that we that I made notes on uh I want them to to show the man doors and uh put uh the handicap next to those doors so there's quick entrance to the uh uh to the building for a handicap person uh we talked about it an aluminum fence with some type of slats something you can um you can you can provide me a detail I'll take a look at it we talked about additional ballards that Andrew wanted to do and um and then the pavement markings um handicapped uh they're going to be moving them so they're going to be striping at least three new handicap spaces I request that you stripe the existing one that's left sure because it's there's pavement cuts and stuff that's in that in the back of the parking lot where it's missing paint will say there was a car parked properly in a handicap space today so it's all of this conversation about handicap parking is not for nothing uh and it is being utilized in the back um so at least one of the spaces uh for handicap was occupied a tag in the mirror it wasn't just a cheat um so it was actually being used so I think it's important that we make sure that those handicap spaces are clean and that that access is available and I do have actually two other things that I just noticed um when I was out there tonight um there's that generator that's there that's a portable generator that do you rent it do you own it the yellow one is it yellow is it yellow I color it is portable is not our generator we have a fixed generator but that's not on the parking lot it's the end of the building next to the Transformer right I saw that generator that one is that is ours we don't the green one you mean the yeah yeah but there was well okay on the aerial there's one that's um that's tan that's much much bigger is that a generator is that something no that is a air handler which is going to go onto the roof for which we apply oh okay okay so it's it's there temporarily it's there temporar goes on the roof it's going to be mechanical equipment and okay thank you and then the last thing is one of the really old um uh aerial I believe shows salt storage uh in the dumpster pad area that's done right not doing that anymore maybe maybe the owner shouldn't tell me that they that never get that yeah that's no longer there that was now it's just two two dumpsters and that's it yep good two dumpsters salt storage was taken away we that's an or in town now yeah so that was the right answer a while okay thank you that's it for okay question oh do you want to go first go ahead all right I just wanted to follow up this was on what Mr gning said regarding some of the engineering going into this like electrical putting stuff in penetrations through the wall all those kind of drawings and stuff now is that get filed with the building permit or do we need to know that now they they have to file permits for all this work I wish we were done here we have the so my my concern concerned quite frankly especially hearing about the hbac equipment anything going on the outside of the building is subject to this board I believe so these drawings should show all the duct work are they going through the wall they going through you know where the roof where is it going to any any new rooftop equipment as an architect I can't figure out what you're doing yet I've been trying for the last hour um so you know it's what the installation what's out there I can't believe this board ever approved uh maybe they did it's a different board I don't know the history whatever but it's not something that we would typically approved now without screening uh the drawing say six the detail say six foot fence the drawing the other drawing say 8ot fence we've got 12 foot units we only see cut sheets of the one unit one new unit we don't have any dimensions of the other two units going in we don't know where those units are going we don't what the sound decibal are we don't know which unit is going where we don't know where the DCT work is going from each unit in through the wall ideally not over the roof but I don't for the wall but we don't by these drawings the current one is over the current one is over the roof the current one so up over the roof to follow up on what what Mr Gidding said and I agree is that all go do we are we a approving that conditional to something or you know I think we should see it in all honesty I think we need to see what you're doing because I can't tell well I'll try and explain I'm not saying that but we need to see on a drawing that what's being approved like an elevation drawing we need a roof plan of where the rooftop unit is going how tall it is is screening needed you know each each of these units in elevation what they look like relationship to the wall going in front of it where the duct work is going through the building how much taller it is what you see um bill can I just ask one question yeah that mechanical unit that is going to go on the roof is that a replacement unit or is it the is it a new one it's for the expansion oh okay the um also sound I mean I was out there that one unit is pretty loud we we can testify that it will meet state requirements but how do I know that well we can we can certainly test after the fact for it and if we don't comply we'd have to comply certainly that's routinely done with so whenever I've been to other planning board meetings as an architect we had to hire an acoustical consultant that showed the aggregate of all four fans and how many decb we can just down if we don't comply so I've done it both ways and iive way for you to I mean look toward a legal counil if that's accept confident that we could comply but um debels is something that this board would like to have uh you don't just have one piece of equipment you have pieces of equipment I don't know if there's Synergy in decibels you know because you have four of those pieces of equipment I understand that there's not a nursery school right next to your back parking lot but we want to we want to make sure that that we've got that um let me ask you about timing um best case scenario when do these need to be in for you like when when does your operation need these and is that last week is that three weeks from now like because I know they're sitting there yeah okay so they have to be installed along with the construction for which the permits have been applied and the drawings show everything exactly where the duct goes and everything like that where the electrical so you have those drawings the drawings have been submitted to the township we got the permit approved also okay the construction is just about to begin now okay so yeah to answer your question about when do we need it the day that the facility is qualified we have to qualify everything together so we need the directions operating when we actually qualify and validate the facility for and and what's the calendar or timeline for that six months window ma okay to complete this construction so look maybe January of 2025 okay so if we were to carry over this application and give you an opportunity to do the things that this board is asking for so we so we don't we don't vote on it in a we don't vote on it but we could carry it over is that is that a possibility it just seems like there are a lot of open uh issues uh here and given the way the other one was installed it it really isn't to our standard and I think that's what's giving U many people on the board trepidation is because the way the one was installed it's not uh um there's two ballards U it isn't aesthetically what we would prefer and there's also so much equipment back there and I know you're getting ready for construction so I appreciate that um but just where the dumpster is where all the uh the I'm G to say piping the um aluminum the duct work all of that um there's just a lot going on back there I just want to make sure that we're in alignment with you know what you're doing um I understand that you have to me FDA um and uh lots of constraints um so we want to make sure you do that uh if you're not incredibly pressed for time um I think we should take a little bit of a breather and then for the engineer to get to our engineer the things that we're asking for if you have those drawings available it would be good for this board to see those if they're if they're already available why not share um I'm going to look at my professionals and see if I'm if is everyone okay with that I just I'm hearing a lot of um I just feel like there's a lot more going on here than just installing a a a piece of equipment if I could obviously we prefer not to come back that that's obvious I don't think say that no I I love this room I've always loved this room haven't been here you haven't been here about 10 years but always like this room it's very intimate it's great I don't know think we need the microphones but that's another story I just want to be clear what it is that you looking for so I think everything's resolved Mr K certainly understand and respect you know your issues especially as an architect but perhaps you're looking at this more as an architect than a planning board member and and so um I want to know if we're coming back I want to know exactly what it is that we need because I don't want to come back here again and then you know we're we're talking about the color of the duck work on the outside and does It Blend on the exterior facade and the like so there are site issues and and there are other issues and and I don't want to confuse the two to be perfectly honest with you again certainly respect I work with a ton of Architects obviously sitting on the side of the aisle um so you know in the OR much to the engineers uh and Consultants reports there's things about equipment equipment screening you know this equipment is way taller than the screening that's proposed and therefore and has exposed D work going up and over the roof the existing one we have no idea what you're doing with the other ones that's all covered you know by by our ordinance new rooftop units are supposed to be screen that's all covered by our ordinance there's not enough detail here but tell me what it is that you'd like to see as opposed to me coming in with something and then board members saying n you really don't care for that is it is it color is it Aesthetics that you want M at all this is this is purely about the ordinance and that's why I'm asking so please drawing showing where I can understand what's going on okay the the one thing I would say and I think the board should consider it because Mr getting stole my thunder a little bit which is that I'm so sorry we did not get to you I've been just watching one point made after the other that's okay all right so talking with me sorry sorry Miss Lany our planner please and so really actually the question I have is that the um as the drawing say it's an eight foot high fence and then that as was said that the chain link is shown as six feet is it because it's six feet of chain link and then two feet of Barb wire's is there a barb wire around the top No it should be an 8 foot high fence it's a typo so that isn't that bar wi it looks yeah there's barb wire on the existing wi yeah is it ex on the existing or proposed existing existing that's right so certainly eliminate that no no no no before you do that the question I guess and I really this is for the board is as Mr Giddings pointed out and and I agree just even eight feet that if you look at that what they've provided for the dimensions of the actual dust it duster itself it's 12 feet and so I think and actually this is the only time I've ever thought this that maybe the chain link is better and the only reason I'm saying that is because I think if you you're not gonna hide it you're not gonna hide it and if you put a bunch of 12 foot boxes it's actually I think GNA draw more attention to it than chain link fence that that's that's an opinion but I it's it's mine okay and so and it I just it's something for the board to consider um I think that may be it actually those were my main my main things I I keep circling back to J star because we really took them to the map because they were putting so much equipment in the parking lot and I drove by there today and it looks fantastic I mean it looks really nice they've done a really nice job so I think there is a way to do it what's out there now it it really is um it doesn't even look safe yeah the I guess and I have to really recollect what jar looked like but was there parking was there just regular parking spaces in dispers in you know mixed in with the Looting so there were regular parking spaces and then they put in um tanks and chillers and uh a a substantial amount of equipment on the exterior of the building you cannot see it you cannot see it and there there are multiple uh tanks um one I think they're I think they're hydrogen not sure I saw the MSDS but I didn't see what was what the actual tank was but for jar and remember they put those long chillers in so they have a they have a long kind of runway in the parking lot but it is it's pristine it it looks good now this is a little bit different situation because this is in the back of the building what theirs was also in the back of the building but their main parking area I'm just saying there there are a lot of ways to do this from what I saw there was uh the duck work going up and over the roof it wasn't in any you know from what I saw it wasn't really uh anchored uh in I mean anchored yes but not from I mean I would be concerned about storm and wind and things like that a lot of work going on in the roof uh with uh cranes and large equipment on the roof for HVAC which we typically have conversations about that there's a lot of exposed equipment uh up there so um so I'm just I'm not sure uh from this Ford standpoint it's in the back of a building uh but they are expanding so it's it's not a temporary thing they're expanding and it it their numbers are going to increase but but I I guess my what I would just add to what everything you said is that they should get direction from the board as to how best to to Shield these dusters and so I think the board should think about it you know because well for example when I was looking just now it looks like the dusters are going to go in front of the the wall lights um that are on the exterior of the building so if if you enclose the dusters are you then kind of making that light I would be happy not to enclose them in to just have a single you know I'm gonna say fence or wall on one side just so you can't back into them I mean but you're the professionals it's not up to us to design it either I mean so part of the problem here is is you have a cluster of all these different units and there's no problem understand that's the very first very basic problem is has you know I do have aesthetic concerns it's not color it's it's more about the ordinance and making you know this someone else doesn't come to us and say well you approved it there we want to do the same thing because it's well they can't do that each case St on the however I get what you're saying the office the office building directly behind the second floor Windows look directly into got I was in that parking lot I can see all the D work that's going up over the roof gotta you know what I mean and that's what we're here to protect if whoever is designing this thing needs to look at the Acoustics and whether it needs to a solid wall to shoot that sound up rather than out toward the lot line to make sure that you meet the requirements because otherwise you're going to spend a lot of money doing this twice you know if it's not designed properly and that's just and again that that's the easy part we're confident that we can satisfy that request that's a black and white issue we're not concerned we get the specs we we'll do that I don't necessarily know that we need a sound expert to do that but from the specs we'll we'll make a decision whether we're comfortable with that or whether we think we need a sound expert I lead up to the professionals can I say something uh in regard to these these uh units the the applicant has to decide whether they're going through the wall like the Electric electrical bus is doing or if they're going up and over right through would be preferable but it may be that you can't get to your your uh equipment rooms whatever you have inside the building so that's something you got to show on the plan right now it just shows the unit and stops there's no no pipe coming out out so show that please once EX justed on the fence why not do three sides and the last side leave open so that the light can come through a person working on the unit can be safe can see what they're doing if if happens to be night and and then the the front and the sides have that as a solid or a slatted fence um something that's uh decorative enough to please this board slacks slacks but my question for the board is how tall we may need a variance right and we're happy to do whatever height the board to VAR to go I have a question I'm sorry 14 fo would look off exactly so and Mr K I get the we have to design the project we're hearing you want to screen the whole thing and then we're hearing from other members that that would look awful and and we agree so we're here to please the board please we're I think you see you have a very willing applicant here um but we we can't be a pingpong ball either though and with different ideas we need a unified voice if I I think the Ping ponging is coming because we don't have enough information from your application so we're having to kind of trying to figure this out we're trying to figure it out so typically there would be more information and more direction from our professional so feedback I can give you is having two new enclosure next to the old enclosure being two separate enclosures the other enclosure having handicapped parking in between you know from what you testified you're only using the one loading dock why can't you get rid of some of this sidewalk and push these units back and have the proper screening in front of it or provide more safer distance to to the driving lane take a holistic look at the back of which doors you use which loading docks you use is this the best location can you group all all the all of the units together into one enclosure or two enclosures minimum number of enclosures so that it's less chaotic because right now it's it's very chaotic back there they're kind of all pushed out kind of too far yeah just there just needs to be some kind of your your engineer just needs to give you you're you're doing everything right you know what you need what equipment you have to have in order to make a good product concern is that the back of that there's a better way to do it it doesn't or is there a better way there is a to do it there is and like like Mr Gidding said can you group them together can you group the handicap spaces together can you just clean it up because right now why are they distant if there's a good reason for that and there's Logic for that fine um I can't speak for the whole board I would be happy with with a with a single fence it doesn't have to be on three sides but just a fence that that shows some demarcation that there's equipment on this side and there's parking on this side just something along those lines to just clean it up as a scientist I know you like things clean and neat and the back of that I'm a chemist the back of that is bothering me beyond belief just because there's just there's no um thought or continuity back there and I think that's what this board is struggling with I don't mean to speak for you but I think those are the questions that we're having so let me ask a few more questions because again I want to go come away from here because it sounds like you're not going to vote on this this evening we can if you like well I'm not so sure that I like I mean one thing I've learned in 36 years is generally how to read the te Le so I think I'm coming back but I don't want to come back and have the same conversation a month from now is when it comes down so we have what I thought and we're perfectly uh what your planner and your engineer said with regard to the screening that you suggested and and we'll do that however you want we'll do eight foot we'll do 12 foot we C it's not our job to design your stud understand we don't understand your specific needs that's fine but that's a pretty straightforward question do you prefer an eight foot or do you prefer 12 foot I mean that's a pretty straightforward question no but what I said before is yeah the ordinance OT is is is allowed right but not 12 it would be a variance waiver would not but i that's correct but I think the object the question perhaps the applicant is looking for is what's the objective is the objective to Shield the thing from view is it to just say hey this is a different area is it to prot protect it from Cars I think that would that dictates or drives what the fence looks like and how high I think what's going to drive it maybe is The Sound Ordinance because that will determine whether it's it's solid or open I'd like to say something about the sound orance sure sound orance in this town is relatively complicated uh it's based on octave so uh we're really going to get down into the weeds if we start asking foration on the sound because you know this band has this requirement this band has this requirement but Mr any but anytime we have a generator we at least have some listing for decibels I mean this is a piece of equipment we're not that's a very general familiar way 85 65 decb that Tye of thing so doesn't this have I mean doesn't it have a I guess I'm maybe we should I'm not being argumentative I'm just saying but I don't know how many questions you want to ask because so here's what I propose okay if we're not going to require the physical consultant to testify that this meets ordinance then I would say a stipulation should be that it's tested at the end and they have to deal with it and I don't want I don't want you as the owner to waste your money it's smart for you to get this figured out rather than test it at the end but that's up to you you know we don't know if it hums or it whines if you know what I mean could be high or low it's running you hear you hear it out there what's the one that's working now what does that do can't we look at and see what the new ones are going to be on this is not really concerned for us my point was we typically come in with that if we're if we have a known typically when you have one unit you get the deal rating for each unit from the manufacturer for so many feet away more chall in rece when you have four of them all running at the same time course I mean I've had some experience they will provide that you have one two three or four they also haven't tested that in a while that Sound Ordinance uh probably not you turn yourself in but but to come back to your original question there's two reasons that we would care about if insert of screening one of them has to do with safety which you've indicated in your testimony as a non-issue here although if you did come back I'd be a little curious why they felt the need for Barb Wire at the top before if safety is a total nonissue but we can try and find that out pad was not here at that point but the other one is aesthetic so to get to the question a lot of the reasons that we get with screening is we like things there's going to be a lot of people including multiple tenants you know some of which you aren't even aware of yet because they have been identified who are back here so to the extent possible within reason that's usually the concern and so it's not specifically that it that we prefer eight or 14 or 12 or anything in fact you know as it's been indicated at a certain point it's beyond the ordinance it was this whole discussion about slats was trying to get to how do you make it a little more pleasing and if you're looking at it holistically you should identify within what you're capable of doing without it interfering with your operations whether as was indicated before there's a cleaner plan you have two of these things directly practically touching each other and then you have two separate fences around other two I if if they don't need to be accessed from all sides as as two of them seemed indicated as the case there would have been plenty of room to fit all four across and then just to move the handicap somewhere else and if you don't have any parking in that section I don't know why for example you'd need that particular walkway you know there's just a point at which you could make it an entirely different thing and have some conical vertical plant that eventually grows to like you know that starts out at six feet and eventually grows to 14 feet you know I mean I'm not designing it for you I'm not using this as that apprciate your comments I am I am indicating the concept of what could be done now if you come back in your testimony and say well these two have to be in a totally separate place because it has to do with the way the duct to work to a different section and well those two are actually a different model so these two models have to be accessed 360 degrees but these two don't now maybe maybe all that makes sense and you come back with like your best shot at what you think is aesthetically reasonable um I'm just saying that's the kind of testimony you can get to on why you chose to do something that might be less aesthetically pleasing versus oh you can do all those things in which case take the spirit of what we've been asking and come with a plan appreciate that thank you for bring you that's what that's what I want to hear so maybe I'm not Mak any clear I I I appreciate that so not asking to design but I appreciate that Mr kids one question to you you mentioned at one point in time trying to make them less prent if I potentially move the back post of the building no holding anything just want to make sure and and as a result we would eliminate the walkway I mean is that I guess it's a from the testimony that I heard you're only using one loading dock and the doors aren't shown for us really to know if all those sidewalks are really needed and what I'm questioning is it sounds like to me that you could get rid of the you might be able to get rid of the sidewalks in some of those areas because there's there's a lot of locations where there's no doors so the 88 parking spaces the entries and it just all needs to be thought out and that's why there seems to be a lot of gaps that aren't making sense and adding up but aren't there aren't there Windows there windows access from any if that is the case then the idea that you need a walkway to all get to one particular door isn't relevant if if the walkway is needed because everyone accesses from one door then the underlying testimony about how every single one of those handicap spaces is close to a door that can easily get them anywhere in the concept you know sort of breaks down so it's one or the other Mr wom said we support your business we we want the pharmaceutical businesses we want these buildings occupied uh we have DRC that meets before this as as the management Cedarbrook we go through this constantly where we get applications where there's not enough information and you guys are in a rush if you can recommend they come to the DRC they'll get all this long before they submit the application we wouldn't be wasting everyone's time here um so that's just a recommendation you know to you guys because we typically approve we're we're not unreasonable it's just this application is not enough detailed and it doesn't sound to show us whether it's worked out or not yeah I I'd like to again piggy back off of Mr Gidding said and what Mr Stewart said we've had a ton of people come in over the last few years requesting emergency generators we've had some people come in with a drone drawing on a cocktail napkin and then we've had some people come in with detailed drawings signed by Engineers electrical engineers you know mechanical engineers include the deol include the spill Prov so you guess who gets approved in 12 minutes versus well the guy who did it on a cocktail napkin come back and I'm not saying we're we that but I I I it would be better if you if we could kind of get idea what you got going on come back with specs on the equipment if it if it lists deciel range that would be great at least it helps us a little bit I mean if you if you want to have that at the end I mean that's that's your call you know you're and like you said you might get from manufacturer right you should be able to get all that stuff from the cut sheets from the manufacturer that should all be standard stuff and whoever your electrical engineer is doing this or your mechanical or civil you know where you're going to have your punch through that could all be shown very easily and I think you know one quick you know oh wow now we can see what it looks like versus I got four pieces of equipment sitting in a parking lot and I got to visualize this and I don't have anything here in front of me that shows it's been it's been very hard for us to convert these uh research offices into light industrial uh we've been doing it since 2020 um but um as you see this board um it it takes a lot to make that conversion um to the lawyer's credit he wants to know what we want I would say jar is kind of the gold star example you may not your equipment may not um you know be right for that but they put a chiller in you can't see it and they've I mean they've just done a good job of screening it makes the parking lot safe it makes the walkway safe because the equipment is in one area and the parking lot is designated in a separate area even though they're in the same space so I think for this board and what we're after is just a little more um to just to just have a little more thought into it so it it goes together as long as you have time uh we would as a matter of practice may we carry over to the next meeting without noticing yeah on the noise please sure um I'm coming around to the idea of not I'm sorry madam chairman but I'm coming around to the idea of not trying to test it later I don't think that's a good idea nobody in this town has a noise meter van CLE doesn't have a noise meter I've already asked Tom about it so bring us to manufacture information I'll compare to the ordinance we you saf I think that's the I think that's very good advice' done that before and that's typically what we do the only thing that I would ask before you close it and carry Madam chair is any country's not heard from any comments I want I hear everyone's comments we're here this evening so Mike fronte any other comments I mean my I guess I'm I'm listening to all this and I feel like the concerns I heard were making sure that the handicap parking were near the doors making sure the enclosure met with Dave Ho's Guidance the the rest of it to me feels like it's covered with a Construction office with your with your permits and elevations you're providing for construction maybe that's overly simpl the same way maybe that's overly simplistic but I feel like we're we're we're asking we ask a lot of questions about your business tonight but I think we're really focusing on spots the enclosure making sure the parking checks the Box make sure the flow that's what I'm looking for on this um and I don't mean to just make people talk if they have something new to add that hasn't been covered yeah no no but that's yeah so I I would be comfortable approving tonight pending putting the handicap spots closest to the the the doors but we're we're uh on yeah we're we're not going to approve tonight we're going I'm I'm just putting I'm just so we yeah so You' given but I'm just saying I'm I would have been comfortable with approval per Mr hoder and handicapp near The Pedestrian spots with knowing that construction plans have been submitted um did you have any concern about the screening no doesn't that concern you at all my concern