##VIDEO ID:C4h1V0ER4iw## ready plenty of time good good evening everyone I think I going to call this meeting to order this is a meeting of the Cranberry Township Parks and Recreation Commission November 20th 2024 let's start with the Pledge of Allegiance IED States America and to the it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all statement of adequate notice pursuant to the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was sent to the cranberry press the Trenton Times and home News Tribune on April 9th 2024 posted on the bulletin board posted on the Township's website and sent to those who requested a copy of this notice the roll call and hours uh Kelly lavry okay Bron Hansen present three okay de is excused um Omar here two two k Katie Harmon present I just forget is it present two um Adam kiram present Sally o Grady present too and Christine of and fent present one all right uh we have two sets of minutes to consider today at our meeting um let's start with the September 18 2024 minutes from our meeting two months ago um Sally has asked that the on the first page under Parks reserves updates that the second sentence be amended to clarify that she reports not just on the state of The cranber Preserve Eagle Trail but that it is in need of some maintenance um you had another one from the September 18 minutes uh that it said of reserve it should should say preserves yes yes um does anyone else have um amendments they're seeking for the September 18 minutes is it possible to get these ahead of time to go over them ahead of time I will arrange for that to to happen yeah thank you I will we we did but it you know we more lead time than 2448 hours is always preferable I think it it came yeah this morning yeah um but I can yeah uh we can improve that um that lead time but if there are no other requests for September I will entertain a motion to approve the draft September minutes motion minutes all right roll call Kelly yes Brendan yes Mark's not here Omar yes Katie yes Adam yes Sally yes Christina yes and Fallon yes all right moving on to our October 16 minutes um what amendments if any are the members seeking today to these minutes um I was a couple minutes late to that one so I wasn't sure if we needed to add that anywhere just because it doesn't have me as in attendance yes we're going to want that to be changed um it mentions me like it's how many hours but it doesn't say like members in attendance I wasn't sure how that gets at it I know Scout sometimes used to put like Katie walked in at 807 72 yeah um we can figure out the time and um it was only a few minutes late I was coming from we can figure out the time and I list that separately or List it under members attendance your name parentheses arrived at X time and I did give a heads up that I was going to be late as well I didn't even show so um any other um amendments to uh the October draft minutes um just again under report it should be parks and preserves as opposed to reserve yeah all right if there are no other um suggestions I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes from October 16 as amended motion to approve the October 16 minutes is there a second I'll second okay roll call Kelly yes Brenda yes not here Omar yes Katie here yes Adam yes Sally yes Christina yes and Fallon yes okay uh moving on to reports we have a representative from the township committee here hope everybody's doing well I have two things to report on just some general um the road there's a project to resurface a bunch of roads in town and those are still underway and that included as part of that package that connector path in the in Village Park between the walkway and the and the and the walkway um so even though that is an ADA Compliant path because there's a parking pad out there there's not a contiguous continuous Ada path from that half mile walkway into town so part of the scope the of the road project was putting a connector in um I don't know exactly where it is but I think it's going to line up with the walkway that's the crosswalk that's there so I think that's the plan for the lineup so there's a plan for that that the township approved is there is there a crosswalk there there is a there's there's markings for an old crosswalk so I think it needs to be remarked oh um there's I think there's a crosswalk across the parking lot but there's not one across the road I believe it looks like there's vestages of it so assume if they and then they also um fin like repaired the sidewalk that wraps around the burning bushes along there so there were two places where the sidewalk was C Wampus and that excellent so so that's exciting so I've been sort of monitoring that because that's something kind of outstanding on that project um and then the last thing I'll give an update on the the chest tables um so where we left at last um I had not realized that Mr Jacobs um and and M Marabella had gone to the library sort of proposed chess tables and I wasn't at the library meeting but I did talk to them the library wanted to say they were ambivalent about the chess tables and so they they wanted the Parks Commission Rec Parks and Rec to know that they were not trying to steal the tables it was not their intent they were doing it as a favor um and because that had been the original intent of that since then I went back to the township committee and I said given that do you still want them to go in the property and they said yes we do so I went to the library I met with the library last week we walked the property and I have a diagram I can show you guys but the basically the um and I can share it if you want um I have Black and Whites to share but Omar can you use your microphone please so who is this the TC wants ITC so when we make recommendations it gets overruled by the TC yes the part advisory committee and there and they were they actually felt it was a full circle because the first recommendation for this of this body had the previous Incarnation this body had been that so um we met with um met with Brooke bista who's the library director and basically said okay if if if you had to have these tables where would you like them and the consideration as this has gone on is that this is these are as we we've learned these are ada8 compliant tables we want them and these tables deserve to have an ad a compliant path to them which was part of the reason that it would have been a hiccup in Heritage Park because it would have required additional cost and additional walkway so when we talk with the library a couple the the the leading options were sort of adjacent to the patio out back um but the thinking is that they like because that is an open preserved land the whole idea is that nothing should be really fixed in that in anything in the back of the of that 14 acre plot of land so the idea the the idea that they really like and the township concurs with is putting them on the on that path that Madam pathway that connect that comes out of the library parking lot does a little dog leg and and works its way to the tennis courts and the township property and what's nice about that is the school just put in ballards and an ada8 compliant walkway up that path the other nice thing is that the the 8 foot pads could be placed directly adjacent to the Madam walkway so high use high traffic traffic area the nice part is with the fourth seat the empty seat if you will the ADA Compliant seat could go facing the walkway which would give a little bit more room on the pad so the table would essentially be the on the far end of the pad which would wouldn't encumber the the pad the the walkway itself um the library is also considering at some point electrical lights along that path um and so the only consideration that we would have is that when they put this pad down they put a piece of conduit in the in the cement so that later they run the Run piping through that um and the thinking the township like this option um because it would be a hight trffic area it sort of connects the township the library the school it it's it you you got have tennis people using it you have teachers on break students after school it gives a a nice location and sort of a sort of a public green W so um so that so I think that's that's the current plan um I think that's um so I think everybody is getting excited about this I think it's very nice that because these T these tables are ADA Compliant that we put them we we follow that ADA compliance through in the design and the implementation and make them very accessible um at a location that does not add impervious surface to the uh to the to the the area the TC already approved this project in Heritage Park is that correct it was voted and approved on to go into Park corre the project was approved the final location was not so that they never concur how how is that possible that we were given approval to put it in but you're telling me the final location was not approved there the the CC approved the project and approved the budget approved the purchase the tables then when it came to the logistics of that they were actually going to have to go on a concrete pad and then they were going to have to have a paved walkway that's where logistically it be we have we have in Heritage Park now an ADA picnic table that sits on notepad yeah it is no one has said anything to us about accessibility is on the same flat land that these tables would go on correct I I don't know the picking table I haven't seen okay so you're saying that we need this path when we didn't build a path initially to our playground we all we had was a ramp and some Mulch and now we have a picnic table in that Park that doesn't have a path to it I'm saying that for for the TC to prove this they want them on an 8ot concrete pad and they want an ad compliant walkway to it so we don't need to do this seems ridiculous to me that this has become a move the project over um what's less than $2,000 we can change the the project that it was presented with this path to make it compliant and still be within budget and it just seems like the TC has decided from our last uh liaison that was against against this plan going in the park as well that now the the library is the location of choice is that correct that is correct okay yeah um a few things I'd like to mention um it sounds to me that this is settled which is just a fact I assume at this point um I think I speak for the commission broadly but perhaps not every single member when I say there's some frustration on our part that the outcome is as such we do feel a little bit cut out of the process um I also I'm not sure I would characterize our exploratory conversations about looking at the library as our as being our original idea I would characterize that more as our original thought but not our original proposal or or plan um but having said that I I don't think there there's too much more to disc discuss here if the matter is closed by the township committee and it's um uh you as on most issues that come before us but not all have the final say on the matter are there any other um items from the committee members or who want to speak on this Sally my concern about this location is shade doesn't look like there is any shade where these are located I mean you can actually it looks like this is you can see the shadows and they're all going to the South and these these two areas are not in any shade at all we had a wonderful shaded location in Heritage Park um and I don't think they're going to be used if they're not in a shaded spot I I would also question the assertion that a break is long enough for a game of chess or that it pairs well with a few matches of tennis no um and and I would like to just agree with what Brendan said that this was never our initial thought this was one of the initial ideas that we had and then we we decided as a commission that we wanted it in Heritage any other items from the members Sor one other thing is that the I believe the the big contention here is the pathway up to where the 8 foot pads are and speaking with contractors that came that pathway we had planned it on being um pavers so it is impervious it's it's not like we're putting in total cement and have all this impervious coverage the only impervious part is the 8ot you mean it would be pervious I'm sorry you mean it would be perious it would be perious yes and I think that was one of TC's concerns was putting in too much cement and we're not we're only having two 8 foot by8 foot squares that are cement with the papers around the outside of it and the path was going to be papers so what is the little cartoon explosion that I I'm seeing oh that is a um that is the um uh it's a holly tree okay I was like I don't know what that is um this yeah this was taken um this was the P the aerial shot was taken prior to that being put in so that was an important um because I think the goal here is you're we want to stay away from root structures want to stay away from the holly tree we want to stay away from eventually there's there could be another path coming in from the school off to the left and then we want to stay away from the power lines which are sort of um going through there so that's sort of the trying to map out the equidistance between those different points so I was told that that path between the library and the tennis courts was um totally temporary it was originally intended to be temporary um but I think now that the school has spent put massive ballards in and put in a ramp from the tennis courts and I think generally from the township to that property is a is a is a a ramp the the that the school is building a walkway that will end up coming around the the end of the parking lot will sort of end up kind of flush with the building there may eventually be another walkway that sort of comes in and sort of makes a why with that one so again that's something else that we want to steer clear of by moving it a little bit down the path um but I don't think the intention is that would that would ever go away the way it is now with the township putting ma or the school putting massive concrete six or eight massive concrete ballards and an ADA Compliant ramp ramp up to that point so um Mr fronte is this the final decision that it's going at the library this is the final decision yeah yeah um I one question um two things um one do you have an ETA for the start did I miss that as early in Spring as possible okay and then the other thing is I think the point they were bringing up about shade is actually a really important one and what was there any thought put into eventually building in more shade more trees more are something beyond what the couple I don't know what what kind of trees I don't know if I missed what kind these are if they are growing into something that will be larger or if these are the smaller ornamental these are just Shadows that they're showing here yeah H are they because look at the look at the chimney of the building that's the shadow so the on the and the Shadows don't reach anywhere near the tables the color picture is a little better um but I I literally walk past it all the time but's the color picture um but or is that something that can be addressed because I mean sitting out on a in the blazing sun yeah on a very slow moving game is like hot yeah I mean we're certainly we knew we we got a lot of feedback from the walking trail in Village Park that it was too close to the trees and the root structure so we don't want to put we got one group's response and no tree has died in that Park we got Fe fact that the shade from the shade tree that was too close so I we're trying there's a balance between getting it close to the tree to get shade and potentially put in the root structure at risk I know there's been a lot of work done by the committee that I've not been a part of so I don't want to minimize the work that has been done by our group but I do like the position and the location comparatively I think that the library brings together multip groups seniors all the way to kids that can walk to these tables and I think the image of seeing a senior member of our community playing chess with a student or a child that's waiting to get picked up in an hour is very powerful it's really bringing our community together in a way that is very accessible to multiple groups by just walking I think that's a I think it's a good point what Sally brings up in terms of shade but if we look at the weather patterns we're having now we're going to have beautiful Springs and beautiful Falls and uh it's going to be fantastic so I do not want to minimize the work that a lot of work was done on getting this project up and running at Heritage uh but I will put a a vote for current location as decided all right I go ahead oh well I don't think we vote though because I think the decision's fine all right so but I just want to make a comment and I'm I'm happy with either location I think chess tables is great using those coffee tables a meeting place for families whatever but I hope in 2025 we could figure out a better collaborative way of communicating because it does feel like we're doing all this work we're setting up subcommittees we're putting in a lot of effort of our personal time and then there's no communication back and forth of the thought it's just like here's the decision you know thank you very much so I'm hoping there could be a little we have email we have text we have subcommittees just some additional dialogue because some of it does feel blindsided I know that's not the intention but we're doing all the work like why waste our time if we could just move on to something else that's fair I mean this is a great I mean it's a great addition to the community and Parks and Rec's advisory and can suggest anything anywhere um so I think this is a this is a going to be a lovely addition to the town it's going to be a it's a hi trffic area it's going to be well used there's nothing there's no seating anywhere in that in that area currently so it will be well used but also I'm you know we do have a full-time full-time person Mr Jacobs you know works on this he was the one that was driving this project he was the one so I mean I think we we have to there's there's lots of communications angles on this so I I didn't realize this hadn't gone to this committee when it had already gone to the library for their proposal so I the last meeting maybe not the October prior one that I attended that was the time that Ken mentioned speaking to the library and that was kind of it yeah and then I haven't received any other communication I don't know if anyone else has but I think it's just common courtesy right like we're doing the work and putting in our time it would just be nice feedack Mr Jacobs wasn't in all that background that was parks that did all that so one more wrap up when we presented the chess tables at the library they said that they have no storage space and they couldn't um we presented chess tables and giant chess which I also really like when we're talking about Chess 2025 but anyhow they had no ability to store anything so I think if we're moving these happily at the recommendation of the township committee that we should ask the library to maintain chest pieces that people can take out yeah because I know they have them for the interior space I think that we'll need like separate ones that can outside they do when they committed to do that so Happ to check that out all right um I think we'll close it there um and that was that was you said you had two items and that was the end of the second is that right I'm sorry you had two items for us you said and that the other was the roads in the town roads yep I'm good anything else for you any any questions you guys have for me on any other Township business I just have one question um I didn't see on the agenda anything about the budget for next year that oh did we talk about that last month when she wasn't here is like that part of the budget Oh I thought we usually like put our suggestions or requests in for 2025 and there's a spreadsheet we review it with our liaison prior I haven't gotten any communication since our last meeting from the town about the budg unless I'm mistaken but I don't think I am [Music] um I in years past the commission has been provided like timelines and spreadsheets or such to fill out and I I don't believe that I I the only reason I'm hedging here is because it's inconsistent with past practice but I I can't recall getting anything from okay all right um and Ken is away I don't know what we can do with that to today um which is unfortunate since Now is really the time to handle that um but but it is reviewed in January correct yeah it's like the second week in January so I know that the We alerted Them the Ken alerted about the proposal for the roof Pavilion roof so I know that was one thing that he was working on preparing and I know we won the grant for the the P the work the work in the park for the tennis courts yes the Village Park revitalization yes as as it's called in the state par yes yes the Village Park revitalization so we just won the won the and I know we just won a road Grant too in the last two weeks last week so um yeah I don't have anything to for us to jump off on on this one right now I'm afraid but I'm happy to talk about it all right um we'll talk about that again under Circle procurement but for now let's wrap the the TC report [Music] um environmental commission I did not go to the meeting and I have to be honest with myself I'm not going to be going to the next meeting either um I keep deluding myself into thinking that I will um but I've not and I've been clear that I don't really feel like I want to um but I haven't been clear in saying that I really don't want to um if we can get possibly another member to volunteer to attend the EC meetings when necessary um or even just maybe if that we don't have that we can do correspondence by email with the EC but um I I'm just not going to be able to consistently fit that into my schedule and adhere to it can you please tell me when they are I they the I I never I think it varies but they're either the Monday before or the Monday of of the week of our meetings do you know Donna they're the third Monday of every month yeah so sometimes that'll be the same week as us and sometimes not so their next one is do they have one in December the third Monday I know we were tossed around the idea at the beginning of the Year everyone kind of taking a swing at it just to spread well yeah but then you kind of volunteer I know I don't know why I did that I'm sorry I I should have done better on this on this assignment I give myself I feel it's important that we coordinate with them because they are really major with the preserves so I'll go to the December 16th meeting and then um we can take it month by month and then uh you know I I'll I'll try to go to the meetings okay and we may not always have to have somebody there if we don't have a particular um you know we always have something about the preserves um I don't see any so I don't have a report there um I don't see any members from the shade tree commission here to report I haven't received any written report uh or verbal communication from the trade shade tree commission either so we're going to blow right past that um Parks preserves updates um I'll open it for members who have to report anything Sally um yes in the pin OES Trail which is the one down off of Old Cranberry Road there are three trees down blocking the paths two of them are across the paths which you can jump over but a bicycle couldn't go over it and one of them is kind of hanging over you which is what they call the Widow makers so if we could get DPW to look at the three trees down in the Pino Trail um the pickle ball nets at Village Park one of them is perfect and the other one is and they were new Nets he did get us two new Nets there's actually a piece missing from it um it's one of the side slats that holds the net up and the part where they go in together one of them is bent so we couldn't we couldn't put it together again so if we could have DPW look at those pickle ball nets I'm presuming it's going to be a while until the new until the construction on that tennis court Mr fronte 2025 yes okay so we we can use this I mean we used it last weekend so if you could have DPW look at the one pickle ball net and I would imagine they could just order the one missing part and try to fit the bottom together again um also I noticed the bikers are parking there again on Sunday um we had spoken to the people who ride bikes around town we had spoken to them and asked them to park in the gravel lot and this Sunday it was just full the paveed parking lot was full of the cars with the bike racks on the back of it again so um I don't know last time I reached out to the members whose names were on the poll that they gave us the repair station I don't know if we can see if if Ken wants to do that or um and the last one is I don't believe the life preserver has been replaced in Memorial Park yet no I got a report from from Ken that we don't have one on standby and that we'll need to order a new one can we do that ASAP and how do we go about doing that I don't know Ken did not put that in his little message to me but um I will follow up with him tomorrow well not tomorrow because it still be at the leag conference um but I will follow up with him um I will I can send him an email tomorrow and he'll get back to me when he does um and I'll follow up again if I need to but we'll we'll figure that out that shouldn't be too large a project fingers crossed and maybe if he's ordering one we can order like two or three or four or maybe six to keep for when they disappear I know we have like odd vandalism and theft issues of public property in this town that like would mostly go un notice but they're that does keep happening Fountain heads and life preservers pieces of pickleball Nets are they branded I don't think so I've never inspected them closely um yeah I don't know I wonder so I'll email Ken about that and get an answer any other members uh with a report I don't have one myself um all right anybody all right let's proceed to Old Business subcommittee Circle procurement Village Park um if we want to move ahead with this we do have to consider the January um budget meeting that the township committee will have um I have I I feel a little out of the loop on this and that's I could share it's on nobody else but me uh yeah please yep so um one of the ideas that was floated across the committee was a gazebo some of the reasons would be there's some middle schoolers and high school kids that go to the Village Park often they're on the um the playground which is excellent they use the swayed table but they're they're obviously looking for a place to hang out they could certainly use picnic tables and the other existing gazebo but I think they're looking for like a little spot for themselves so the Gazebo might serve for that also there's no shade in that Center Circle of the walkway so that gazebo would sered for that as well the cost ranges it could go from anywhere from 6500 all the way to you know 18,000 if you wish it just depends on what we want and how detailed we want it to look and things of that nature so if we want to move forward with it I'm happy to research options and share ideas it could be vinyl it could be wood it could be matching roof to the other Pavilion area to make it cohesive I just need a little bit of a guideline if if we do want to pursue it I know it's not like a attractive idea to some members on the committee if you want to look at something else or table the idea um that's fine as well I think it's a really solid idea uh especially since the footprint should leave us room to add a sculpture or something um if we have can I say if you are adamant I'm putting a a gazebo which we can put anywhere in the park because I mean it's nothing but a another auxiliary building it's not like a specialty or anything like this so if you're adamant on putting it here can we at least move it out of the circle because the circle was designed for something more significant akin to the Fountain project that we have inherited and um having walked to that Park uh this past month uh it your gazebo could easily move to the intersection outside the circle to the North or the South and still uh meet the requirements that you procurement committee has decided for this and still leaving that open space for a future project that could be um something special for this town so um I won't say that I'm against the Gazebo I'm against the Gazebo being placed prominently center of the circle um and there's plenty of space there to either push this project to the intersection outside to the North or you have um you know four paths coming together or to the South where you also have four paths coming together so if the procurement company would be open to that that would be my suggestion I think it's I think it's a good suggestion I think our problem is whatever we envision for the center of that circle is going to be we want it to be nice and beautiful it's going to be really expensive the fountain found a way to get done so saying something's expensive to me is not an excuse just to not do anything that's going to be um bigger or grander than one might normally say that the parks would normally recommend to the CC um any idea or Vision as you if we've seen tonight we can present to the TC they can do whatever they want with it but if we have a project and we know a cost we can also as a group decide well how could we meet some of these challenges to this like I'm if you look at the way the fountain was built there were bricks sold and helped funded that project I assume wasn't in town at the time but I can only assume that's why everybody has a little name block there um but like there's also we have put all these businesses and all these warehouses part of our town um could be as simple as reaching out to them to see if they want to make a contribution because I've seen other towns where they've put in walking paths and they have a sign that says this walking path was bought to you by and they have silver donors gold donors you know Platinum donors and these are all uh businesses in town that took the time to donate and to help make that Park um better so we haven't even begun to reach out and at all in my knowledge so there's ways to get this project done and I just wouldn't want to say that oh that's going to be expensive we we shouldn't even try to be like a deterrent to us I wasn't saying we shouldn't try I'm just saying if we're looking at it for next year's budget we have a lot more you if you recall you guys asked for a circle procurement committee to go over and look at it and Christine and Brandon and I and did and this is what we came up with now if you want to do another committee with different people different ideas go ahead um here's the here's sort of my analysis of what we're going to run into moving forward um if we go to the TC and say we want to put a Zebo in the corner near the circle and put something else in the circle I have a sense they might raised the question of well why are we if the Gazebo was meant to go in the circle and we're doing something else in the circle why are we still doing the gazebo at all um I don't know for a fact that they would say that but I I have a sense that they might raise that question um I also have a sense that no matter what type of proposal we take to the TC they are going to maybe want to slow walk it and not deal with it in this coming budget year um and Christina I love your volunteering to do some more work but I would feel badly if you did the work and then TC didn't bite well we're in infancy stages right so we have to give some ideas to the TC but chest tables was another matter that was a discussion for three years and library was explored numerous times and right at the tail end it came up so that's that's a different matter this I'm happy to explore gazebos I'm happy to explore a water feature but I just need a some guidelines right like I think as a group we should have some passion around whatever those two or three ideas are I'm happy to research them but if it's the water feature I mean it's costly I don't know if that's like a priority to put put it in in 2025 or 2026 we just have to it's a group decide right like we come up with three ideas happy to explore all three all right should we take a straw poll of those ideas just by a show of hands to get a sense I just I don't love the Gazebo idea for the circle but I many moons ago before we were two joins as one we I had presented how towns do a call for art and it's you can put as many parameters on it as you want and you need a budget and you need to say what the vibe is going to be and um where it's going to be located and you give a a bunch of information and then artists um there I circulated the websites that artists can search themselves um they can submit what they would like sculpt for the for the place um or whatever thing we're looking for if it is an art piece or sculpture and I still think that we should explore that we wouldn't be able to say exactly what it would be other than the medium and we would need a budget and what what the vibe the wrong word but sort of like the goal of the piece would be but if that's something that the township committee could get behind then we could start exploring that and it wouldn't be for next year's budget probably because it's too much money but I think that art would go well there I do remember briefly even after we were joined you bringing this up um I remember hearing an idea about fountains and then I remember you bring this up and somebody's saying something about insuring um but I I like that idea I like all three ideas so I guess I'm just not really sure how far down any of these paths we've traveled so far or you guys have traveled before we became one um so I would like to kind of I guess hear a little bit more about everything I would assume that the biggest hindrance with the water featur is is the plumbing involved because I know I heard that that was the big hangup with one of the water bottle issu things was just the plumbing being an issue um and I live in Shadow Oaks where it took forever for people to get on public water um we didn't we didn't really discuss the circle of procurement issue at any real depth before the the Committees merged together we're not talking a a gazebo similar to what we have now this would be a totally flat surface so you wouldn't have to worry with any stairs it would be handicap accessible Christina you had pulled up that that first picture you showed me and and basically just an open space with the roof over it um that's what we're talking yeah I'm happy to share the picture I think everyone gets the idea but we should have a consensus of what what everyone would want so if it's like researching art and trying to see if that works researching at high levels right like a water feature and roughly right cost for that and then the Gazebo like we could present three options back to the committee and see where it lands but again it's going to come down to what we want for the town and the budget parameters and what Kelly mentioned like the vibe like what feeling are we going for in this area I just have like the sinking feeling that this next budget year is not going to be year for us I me that's okay cuz we're not like it's not an urgent project or anything but nothing nothing moves fast it took us four or five years for this walking trail so like why the push to everybody to think everything is going to be done as soon as possible it's it's we find an idea that we can all present and agree upon that's going to be something that's going to add value to our town and and make it as some people feel about the fountain or the existing gazebo or whatever it is you know and we go from there and then we then we find out like well is this something the TC is going to support or they'll say well we like this but you know we're not it doesn't fit in our budget parameters or whatever and then we could start to work it to make it fit but I think just rushing for sake to put something up there is a mistake and I would hope that if you know if you do want to put a gazebo like I said like we don't need to make it the focal point of that area I think we could do something better and grander there and that that's just my opinion but there's enough room there for the Gazebo and then because it's not a circle it's an oval to have art on either end of it okay I against a gazebo in the center and that is my my thing that comments that I've made to the group and I feel like that this gazebo could easily fit in one the other intersections outside of the circle I mean if you're worried about cost there's low lowc cost things that we could do we can we could put um a labyrinth you know I've seen these in a lot of vacation spots where you know it's it's not necessarily a maze but a path that people follow and it's kind of you know people take their time and walk through get to the center walk out kind of thing I I I mean I don't have pictures on it if you're not familiar with this but um or even you know something as simple as some sort of maybe there's some sort of you know zen garden that people could you know we have like a setup where they can take a breake and make you know do it themselves or whatever I'm just saying like I think there's more here than just putting up an auxiliary building in the center of it and saying this is this is what we came up with as as a group um any thought any thoughts or strong feelings from the people we haven't heard from yet on this one um I would like to add I think what Adam is saying about focusing on what would be a little grander maybe than a a typical gazebo is a good idea I think the opportunity to highlight this particular area is in front of us I think um a gazebo may be an option but I think maybe doing a deeper dive amongst the group like a work session where really throw out some ideas I think the idea of this Labyrinth is the idea of maybe walking through a space maybe getting to know cranberry maybe we put some things that would highlight specific areas of cranberry in a you know in a particular pattern of walking where there's it's covered like a gazebo and then people can explore the town after they go through this this area that really highlights different locations uh of our town might be a nice way to uh bring people together and and learn more about what our community is about as an idea so maybe having a session where we really throw out ideas and see what what uh sticks and what we're all can get behind and then move forward on a more detailed investigation and then present to TC and and certainly use the opportunity to fund raise and make make a nice nice uh place with a nice uh presentation Omar said it far better but um I fully support that I think there's not a lot of downside to saying that we should have a brainstorming session I love the art idea I love the sort of um Grand exploration that I think it's really it's our job to do right maybe it is a gazebo I think that's a beautiful idea but there's probably lots of other directions we could take it and I feel like if we're not confident the budget is going to be approved regardless in January let's take the time to explore it um and I would love for it to be a takeaway not even just the the ideas thrown around here but to say next meeting or first meeting in 2025 we're going to put this as an agenda item and everybody come with your thoughts um in including maybe a visit to the space um to discuss further thank you all um I I re I just really feel that the TC is not going to go for spending this year on this project and I don't I don't hate that position either um we maybe want to take our time to get more information not just from ourselves and from external sources but from other PE other um stakeholders the town about what they're looking at um having said that would we all feel mostly comfortable if we didn't try to make this a budget priority for for this coming budget year or are those of us are there some of us who feel strongly that we should move now I I personally think we should wait there's we just need some as a group have some passion around what really what we want right we love the chess tables we love the inclusive playground if this next project should have that same feel I I tend to to agree yeah I think there I do see sense from all of us that there that this is a good opportunity to do something and that there is something out there either identified or unidentified that will fit um and make us all happy but we're we're just not there yet right now as far as I can tell um is there anything else to add on this item that we're that we haven't gotten to yet or are we ready to move on all right um stakeholder age group subcommittee reports in discussion I don't think we're ready to go into this again um and someone correct me if I'm mistaken okay we're not ready to go into it again Millstone Park Memorial um this is not going to be resolved the next month given the time of year but I think that we might profer first of all what we're talking about um in case it's unclear to any of us or anyone who's a member of the public there was a plaque installed in like the early 90s along the sidewalk in Millstone Park on ultran road and the plaque was for Memorial Day and our fallen um service members and surrounding the plaque um was a semicircle around it um up against the sidewalk of Shrubbery and flowers and such that has long since been an isore and not something that the town should be proud of it has since been removed entirely except for the plaque um and there is opportunity there to move forward with something else the plaque looks bad by itself it's like a triangle situation like this on a stone um and it like I mean most people probably Drive down old Trent Road without seeing it but if you look and see it you're like that's weird why is there like this big triangle in the middle of the area next to the sidewalk I think that we need to um put a proposal forward to d d to DPW and the township committee to spend some money and get some Shrubbery or some such thing and sort of make that a viable presentable um attraction of sorts I thought shade tree was going to do that sh Tre was going to look into it I haven't heard anything from them on it and it it's it's just been quite a while since they've pulled out all the dead stuff that was there um I don't have and will never have it's not within my expertise a plan for what it should look like I don't do Greenery and Flora um so that's that's beyond me um but but I could pass judgment on somebody else's plan I was going to say that's definitely something you could put in as a line item in the 2025 budget just so you don't lose a whole calendar year yeah you could put in two or three thousand in the design TVD for that so I can talk to shade tree um unless somebody else wants to volunteer for it but I can definitely do it myself um I feel like I should just because it's across the street from my house I can see it from my window um unless you think I'm too close to it I need to put some distance between me and this particular project um skeleton but um I just want to see some movement on this and if we move quick enough I think that Mr ronte is right we can get some money from the township set aside for this um I don't know if there's anything else to add right now but I'm I wait why why why shade they despite their name do get involved with some other stuff like that sometimes but it's not probably their core Mission um they also have experience in advising on like native plants and such I think it's the native plant element that really hooked them you know who might be really great for this Dela George she's really into G native stting that initiative who is this um what's I can I I can send you her information but I feel like she has like a lot of knowledge in the space and she is starting some initiative in town about Native pollinators and making Wild Spaces in your own garden sorry that I'm not describing it well yes yes although they do tend to look a little over that native planting tends to look like weeds right that's GNA say it a little bit [Music] Sally right next to a live one all right I can um all right I can uh make contact UM tril clean a proposal I mentioned that I did not go to the EC meeting and did not talk about this um I will bring that up at the EC meeting thank you Sally Pavilion Roof village Park did did we want to leave this on the agenda was there anything to discuss today I've only had one organization reach back out to me um but I really have not due to personal issues I've have not really followed up with this at all so I can reach out to the other two or see if we need to get new bids all righty um you going to put this in the 2025 budget it's I have a couple more things I have but just before um that Sally did you hear um or make further contact with the applicant from the memorial bench and I gave her all the information she needed and it's now in the balls in her Court as the saying is I don't know whether she has put an application in or not after all that information she may decide she doesn't want one okay all right I don't know but I've done everything I could any you have some other stuff um yes in last month's minutes we just said that we were going to vote on the um offleash dog park at this meeting um not sure what is at the um cranberry Brook preserve West properties area right yes so I'm not I'm not sure where it is but um I'm not sure dog park off under pet subcommittee mogr reported that there are eight dog parks within 10 miles of cranberry so she suest suggested an offleash area for dogs at cranberry Brook preserve Miss lavry reported that she is in favor of the offleash area and suggested the commission take a vote at the next meeting yeah so we don't necessarily want to characterize this as um an offleash dog park but just as a designated area where dogs are permitted off leash Park is the wrong word off leash dog area um I am happy to entertain that motion if there is no opposition to it or need for discussion today I think EC is going to have their own feelings about that but that we shouldn't keep that from we shouldn't let that keep us from weighing it so can I make a motion um that we consider an offleash dog area in the Cranberry Brook preserve that we vote on on expressing our support for it yes is there a second for that motion second okay U before we vote just let's reme um not let's remember let's just um be clear that this is sort of a recommendation and we're going to have to work with other stakeholders on this one but uh having said that roll call Kelly yes Brendon yes Omar obain Katie yes Adam but what was the final saying that we're voting on here to express our I I express our support for an um to permit dogs off leash in the West Property the entire West Property there would be signage at the beginning of where they're off leash and yeah and with stipulations like this is just showing support that this is something that we want to explore or to present withc that would then be we're not making a law or rule here we're sort of just getting the ball rolling yes right yes Sally yes Christina yes Fallon yes okay um I'm and I had one more thing just before we get to that sorry um this is something we're going to have to um keep our ear to the ground on and try to get onto the agenda of some other people I'm sure there will be concerns about it but I frankly really feel that people who have people who are comfortable letting their dogs off leash and whose dogs are capable of being granted that privilege should not be you know penalized or such for for doing so um but this is I I want to fully acknowledge to the members and to any listening public that this is far from the end of this question should I bring it up at the EC I think they had a problem with it last time about the dog stepping on yeah um as if there were no other animals that track around with feet okay uh your other items s um the other item is that and I believe you brought this up Brendan that um the Mrs Morris with the Helen Cody Foundation is um they're asking to put a statue in Heritage Park yes I spoke yesterday with Noel Kenny of the Helen Cody Foundation um I believe she's a board member um they are looking to talk to us about placing a sculpture or statue I'm not sure how you characterize it a small relatively small item uh perhaps an origami crane was the direction they're thinking of near the um starting liner was it the starting line or Finishing Line I'm not recalling of the Helen Cody 5K race does anybody know where that starting line is I confess I do not know where that is and have never run 5K in my life it's in the it's it's near the South End of the of the loop so is it near the one wind statue that's there wind sculpture wind sculpture no it's near there's sort of the The Fountain and then there's a few walkways and there's one Loop that goes up to the parking the playground it's sort of in that in that section so it's not the one the wind sculpture is all the way on other and the other one is all the way down no there's three of them okay then it's by one well I did it's in the big space there's the Joan Tom Widner tree is right there too because that's another thing that brandan and I were discussing is um if they want to put it there and that's the beginning might we consider moving the wind sculptur so that they're all in one area um I know the previous member thought it was really nice to spread them all out in the park uh and some of us thought it would be really nice to see them all together and I don't think they'd be that hard to move but um we need to know where this this new Statue is going to see whether that's a possibility any okay um I so I did uh talk to nor yesterday and um I invited her to come to our next meeting and um present us with some more information on what they're thinking of including um some visuals perhaps for us to look at um so that's something to uh look forward to I will agenda I will I'm gonna add this to my list I'll reach out even before then to get an answer on on where the start Finish Line is um and then I can email that information to you all um one other thing to mention my father is on the board of the H Cody foundation so I just have to give some thought on how involved I want to be in this conversation um some may consider that a conflict of interest some may consider that ridiculous to think it a conflict of interest so I just need to give some thought to that myself I just wanted to put that out there right in front I had a question I don't know if it's old business or new business but in regards to the budget I know we have the water filling station and some other items on the um on the DPW list and I think if I recall there was potential um ask for a part-time helper or for the DPW or contractor to help do some of that work does that go in our budget or where does that if we were to want somebody to help for these like this list for the DPW does that go I don't know is that something we want to consider to put in as a line item for 2025 already bought the water bottle Filling Station it's just the installation is 2025 already have a date for the budget it's typically the second or third weekend in January second or third week in January all day Saturday morning session I think we need to look closely at this year's budget and see what was actually came to fruition and what we either want to carry over or because I don't I don't have that information in front of me I don't either I can work on that oh please share well this is what came out not what we requested turn mine off last time Look Who's Laughing Now um do you want me to read everything out or oh sure yeah uh why don't you all right we are looking this is and keeping in mind this was um from the Recreation Commission prior to the Del dissolution of the two bodies and the establishment of the one that we are members on now they had um subsidies to programs eight $8,000 to Summer Recreation programs 6,000 to Golden agers 6,600 to senior Fellowship exercise 1,000 for cranberry day $1,000 for movie concert in the park and then there's a note here that says this is just don't read my okay some of those might be Doodles um $1,000 for senior trips $500 for food pantry donations $6,000 for senior center programs total other expenses which is all those together that's 30,100 office supplies and materials 500 total for Recreation Commission 30,600 but we don't have Parks yeah I don't I don't have that in front of me right now um I I'm not sure I have it in front of me anywhere I might have to compile it um so much of that um now does Ken work on that usually that that element of it so and then he just breaks it down in details so Ken goes to the meeting but you are welcome to go with him um and I know you had advised us last year for our requests to be as detailed as possible um so when we want to request anything and I wasn't even sure when we were talking about uh the like Landscaping if that needs to like how detailed even that would need to be or just landscaping for the memorial sign needs to be if that's sufficient or if it needs to list what sort of or just like Landscaping sign $2,000 is sufficient but I know you had expressed multiple times just reiterated just as that TC wants to be is informed and specific I I would say the rigor goes up with the with the expense and the and the variability of the expense if you're talking yeah so for shrubbery you could probably give a range and you could probably make anything work within the range the TC doesn't want to approve something that will not that amount won't end up being feasible for the project I think with something like Shrubbery there's a lot of flexibility to make things work within a budget so yeah so I don't know what our what would be our larger expenses for 2025 what are some of the big things that we would want to try to get done at this point well we're we're pretty much shelving not shelving but holding off on circuit procurement and that was a potential big item thought the roof and the current Pavilion I thought that went in somebody else's budget though I'm not sure but I I thought that did how close are we to getting final numbers to even request for a roof was working on we can use the same ones that we had previously this whole project has been extended because first there was an issue of do we want to replace the shingle or do we want to go to Asphalt and then we we liked the shingle and then we looked into to repairing instead of replacing and then we looked into uh using a special wash chemical to remove the Moss and so like it's been a lot of changes but we did get approved last year a budget to repair and I want to say it was somewhere in the range of um $5,000 or $6,000 I'm not sure um but we still haven't used those monies because was the more I brought back to the group the more the group decided that maybe a full replacement at this time to bring cohesiveness to the park would be the better option so now I'm having to reach out to these people that bid on this over a year ago to say a do you still want a bid is your bid good if not do you want to update your bid so that's the process we're in right now but I can submit you the old numbers the old numbers Pro for a new roof we're probably around 24,000 for um just the asphalt and then they went up from there for the shingle so I would say if you're going to if you're going to put in the budget you got to put in at least 20,000 for this roof and is I guess that would be my question is is ballp parking 20,000 sufficient or is TC going to want something that is honing in a little more specific that says um you know we got quotes for this number I can give you the use the same quotes again I mean oh I just don't know if they're going to be updated um that's I guess what I'm I going back to what I was asking before about specificity um can we say we're ballparking 20,000 for a new roof or is TC going to want to see we got a bid for this is the actual bid that we got to replace this specific roof on our ask I don't have a sense for that which which they would prefer wasn't it in the line Bud the line item budget or something I thought it was taken out of Park's budget and put onto a different budget it would probably have to be in capital but it would be coming there was Capital set aside okay good I mean capital is a separate budget but yeah it's not an operate operating budgets are held by departments capital is held centrally so then we don't yeah I'm not sure 100% how to proceed on the budget wait sorry just to be clear do we have to do anything to ask for money for the roof of the Pavilion because I think that's what we're T going around about yeah I think that was the I think Ken had the instructions of what he needed from Denise so he been working it yeah all right yeah perfect he felt he seemed he seemed like he had it covered the last time we talked about it so and we had given him the heads up that he needed it by last month he was working on it and he was preparing it so so even Adam doesn't need to be doing I don't know what I don't know if Ken reached out to you to get the quotes but okay so Ken give you was it du last month did he get it in I think they were trying to start started next month or S of s so it could get locked in I don't know what happened but Ken knew the deadlines that he had to support and work on this for so you might need like a Ken email update every couple weeks okay um I'm just going back to that the question of a part-time contractor to help DPW does that go in the operating budget does that come out of the trust that would be an operating item but I don't have any sense of what that would be how to go about pursuing that that's a Ken question right he has the list and has an idea of like what work is needed for the filter for the water filling station for example let's at least add that as a separate budget item for 2025 because it is so sad that we spent money and this thing is routing in a warehouse because we haven't installed it and it's out of warranty because we've done nothing so however much money it is to get someone to physically install it I vote that we just ask for that at the budget meeting and we include it in the request right and one question about um sorry to go back to the chest tables again at the library the um cement pads Mike as well as the installation of the chairs and the table is that does that go in the rec budget that was approved in the capital budget last year and it's all covered it's all covered yes these were the other two budget requests that next be just this one and that one so we did ask Mr fante will you be here at the December meeting I will not then I would like to make a um a a statement to thank you for all of your time because I believe this is your last meeting as our L is on that and so I'd like to point out how um leaz on you have been if that's a word and and thank you for always being here and and and listening to us so thank you yes thank you for collaborating and working with us we really do good luck in your retirement um are there any other um things to touch on before we run over our action items all right I have a few action items for myself I've got um report to DTW about trees blocking the path at Pin Oaks I've got actually Ken said he's going to do the reports to DPW right I'm sorry report to Ken report to Ken about that sorry um report to Ken also about the net damage be Beyond current use at at um at Village for the pick a ball I have to email Ken about the life preserver see what the next steps are there for him to order it and what the timeline looks like um I am going to talk to shade tree and this person whose name I need to write down um about um plantings at the um Memorial plaque in midstone Park um I am going to ask Noel Kenny about if she can pinpoint for me a start finish line location that I can circulate to the rest of you just so we have a better sense of it so when we're thinking about it ahead of next month's meeting we've got stuff to um we've got a little bit more sense of what's going on there um and I have to talk to Ken and and possibly some other people um about this budget situation um and don't let me adjourn before we take a vote on um whether we're going to have our meeting in December it's listed as optional so we just need to confirm that we will want to meet my action items I'm going to go to the EC meeting and um look at all the parks and preserves that are on my list anyone else all right um let me see here um all right I think that is it for Action items I don't have anything listed for anybody else on my notes um so I would what what are we doing um entertaining a motion what is the date of the December meeting please the 18 it's the 18th I just since we haven't met um with Ken this month and we have to get budget things in by January I kind of think it's important to meet oh yeah I want to meet I think we should um we just it's just a formality I think um so the motion I would consider is a motion to hold our next meeting on December 18th I'll second that motion okay Kelly yes hey brandan yes here Omar yes Katie yes Adam yes Sally yes Christina yes and Fallen yes okay all right um moving on to public comment I will open it up for public comment for the record there is nobody here I'm going to close public comment and with that um I am going to adjourn the meeting uh this meeting is over take care everyone e e e e