um we currently have all Commissioners present and Charles City Manager here as well and our clerk Ken and so with that commissioner ask you to pleas us father once again we come before you to give you thanks and praise and to lift up your name God we pray for our community and all our citizen within our community to rest and lead us the way that we should go we ask this in Jesus name amen amen of the United States of America and to the for stands Nation godice okay thank you okay Charles I'm gonna ask you to start us off thank you as you know we got we received five responses um to our RFP all the firms are very experienced very capable um been very successful with u Grant Awards so it's very difficult Choice um often times in these cases I find myself end up looking for ways to ding some of them to ruce points um in this case it was just very difficult the big the big difference was the cost of them was not a factor in the score so um the the point of this exercise was to have a continuing Services agreement or several agreements with a firm or firms to search for grants for us and either we we asked them to go proactively digging around and we pay them either by the hour or we they find a grant give us a proposal for x amount of dollars to apply for that Grant um or we have the one one app Fred Fox who we worked with for years um only gets paid if he gets the grant so his motivations to the awards but he does not um spend time looking around doing research to figure out hey here's a ground I wonder if this would work in prestent city so U that's s of the tradeoff we want that kind of service where someone's meets with us looks at our plans and starts going out searching list and think they know about they'll bill us by for the hour by that and then they'll pay a fee or apply for certain grants so my my feeling is we really AR in a position to do that um you know our general fund is going to take on some new expenditures next year whether that be animal control or um financing we do a bond whether it's overhead for the new middle school property many things could be in a general fund so to pay someone just to search for Grants and then hope they'd be successful and pay them to apply I think is beyond our our limits um we have a very good relationship with Fred Fox been successful for us currently have cdbg grant that they're administering for us we intend to have them apply for thir app in the coming year so it's up to you how you want to proceed if you've already scored them we can provide those scores I've been getting requests from these firms for the scoring results and inform we have not yet gone through that process so there how you want to proceed Commission comments on I I started scoring them and it was kind of difficult to they're all very good firms um I did find that the ones that are at State the one in California jco and intuitive I mean they look like they doing a lot of federal grants a lot of big you know higher up kind of things that I don't know stuff that we would even qualify for stuff that we you know and they also have a huge expense to go after those red fox has done a great job for us red fox I think will continue to do a great job for us we need to of course keep them on board but like you said they don't go after anything that they don't really know they're going to get I mean they've done for app they don't cdbg that's pretty much what they've done for us every time every year almost what why was it that we didn't get we don't have any F brch open right now right correct just closed out one you have two open at a time correct we um they contacted me right before the deadline last maybe it was August I think it's so by you refer that where you well guess not so miss there's two I mean there two opportunities to have two open at a time I think that's something we've always been very successful with those because those are parks they're very general and I they are scored competively but you know we've made very good use of those that's pretty much one the only ways we've improved our parks in this town um I just think we to make sure that we stay those those deadlines um but yeah it's the guardian people I thought that was interesting they they work at puon County I think on the shf program um and so I don't know my feelings are that I we need somebody doing more than what fox is doing we need someone that is actively looking for stuff for us now whether that's you or whether that's a dedicated person or a part-time person um I think that's something that we need to consider because you know a grant writer brings in money so it's not an expense that we're just spending you know and we're not getting anything return if they're successful you know we're successful um and I just think that we need to put our Horizons I that's something that why we talked about having a so long so those are my feelings I think we need to I I don't know paying one of these firms to go out actively looking is is the best you know the right answer but I think we need to wind our Horizons um because there is a lot of money out there that we're not you know not taking advantage of and the other thing too who was that somebody did legislative Appropriations too the guardian people yeah and that was something that I think you might want to look into them as far as their success for those because I mean we know that we have not we didn't succeed this year in getting not yet I mean I think we we still are in the ball game aren't we are yeah we still in the ball game yeah we're still in the ball game right now but you know it's something that maybe having someone working with us on those we might be more successful in the future um but those are just my feelings thank you commissioner sure um just starting with the last thing commissioner R said first and the kind of something I don't want to forget to address as far as paying someone to do um legislative Grant forth I noticed the pricing is very expensive for that um and I will share I don't think I wrote up my notes um but when I went to the league of cities legislative conference and they had a number of seminars um one of the seminars um one of the main speakers was Dean Ken former speaker of the house and he was very nice he was very clear very honest he really um I think he's making a lot of money now on his firm he has a a lobbying firm and whatever um he really seems to want to help everybody he answered questions and he said in his opinion for a small municipality that doesn't have a big budget he thought um that grant writing was a better investment than to pay money for someone to try to go after legislative appropriation for you that was I've been meaning to share that um so he's doing grant writing as opposed to lobbying exactly because he said your percentage is better and I guess my observation is um there's a certain amount of legislative requests um that your legislator is going to put in for you and we got one last year and we may get one this year um and I noticed the fees for this legislative appropriation um services are quite quite high so I mean that's always out there um as far as the the whole issue of Grant wrer um I learned a lot from reading these proposals um I agree with commissioner Lori um that somehow it's it's important that we consider how to increase our grant applications because we need to not just spend money and give our own money away in Grants we we really need to do something that brings money back in particularly there's a lot of cents out there so had I did not find that the the RP scoring was that helpful to like how we would choose someone um y'all probably found the same thing like they were all good communicators um they all did a decent submission although I don't think anybody ever ever told us when they were available to start I thought that was kind of funny um but what what I observed is and what was more important to me um same thing that commissioner L noticed garden and Community Resource Management um they were one they're in Florida and they do work with small towns some smaller towns um I think a lot of the programs that counties get probably do not apply to us so I focused on that um they seem to um that little second that second column experien identifying potential grants uh guardian and a little bit Jet cutle Jet cut is a much smaller newer company um but Guardian really seemed to have the greatest capability to look at your leads and look at what's out there um they charge for it but they um they weren't the most expensive one so to me um and I noticed also I did not I did not find it for the others Guardians said that their offer was open for 120 days after bid opening was that January 31st [Music] Charles I think was end of January so anyway so that's roughly four months um I thought that they had something potentially to offer us if we thought we could afford it in terms of looking at our needs and looking what's out there um Fred Fox have done a good job for us but the drawback um of fox Enterprises I mean what they do they do really well um they offered to um do the research part for free but it's very limited and I didn't really like their methodology um they said that they would go talk to our department heads and then go out there and res Arch um what what we would need well to me I think that's kind of or research what's available um personally I think that that's kind of our job to ask staff what they need and to have it come to us and then as Commissioners we should look at the needs and because we we cannot make an limited Grant applications um so I mean they offer to do the research for free but they I think and um I know our city manager has mentioned you know he would like to work more with Fred Fox and see if they could do more for us um I get the feeling that they do mainly CBG and herat because those may enable them to get paid out of the award whereas others might not Charles do I have that kind of right I think so and it would help to get clarification from Fred Fox like what are the grants that you will do that we don't have to pay for I mean that we wouldn't have to pay you write the grant um because I think we would need to be very selective about that then jeto Solutions they're small they're from out of state um I noticed they do grit research but they only they look like they only use grants.gov and I'm assuming that's all federal but they have um I don't know they they have like a a flat fee for doing research for you so I put a long note I wouldn't throw those out um the others to me were quite expensive and were not for based and as commissioner Lori mentioned they seem to do more with the bigger grants that probably aren't an option for us um I thought the one based in California Evans Brooks was very very expensive so to me I think Guardian potentially has something to offer us Fred Box we have a relationship with I'd like to know what more you know what more could they do for us what other grants um would they suggest and then Jet Cod I mean because um Charles you said we can actually um accept their offer in some way um but not necessarily use them is that right great it's it's a continuing Services agreement so then we would reach out [Music] I just I think the top three have something to offer us and then finally um I think we mentioned this before at a different meeting um I learned a lot about what RS are out there and I like to ask pars um some of them on this list some of them on the guardian list that they've gotten um I thought Guardian I noticed um did list of a project for a uh CDD Community Development whatever the other d stand distri District Community Development district and also um they did a grant for a city for a public private Parkers project I thought that was interesting um so I just to me I think we have more work to do and in particular finding out more about um what some of these listed grants are there are a lot of rural rural development grants I don't know what they are um there's rural development there's Department of Economic Opportunity these are state things um I think this is good information for us and um I would like to see us investigate some kind of relationship particularly with top to um maybe that third one Jet and then find out more about all these tempar that other people are get okay good I'm good any thoughts I yeah well city manager say Finance we are in our finance area is the city going to be able to support a grand right T you know TX is always been there and been kind of you know reasonable if we going to be able to step above that Sur I really every time I ride by school it just on my heart I just wish you just could go and say hey we need to get a grant and we really do to to get and how much do we want the whole school or what what we going sit out Tet [Music] you're talking about our our budget that's going to come up we could we could spread the verion so for instance if we had an agreement with one of these firms and and they said well there's a water plant Grant out there and it will cost X to apply we want they feel like they can get it we could assign that to the water fund so it wouldn't be a general fund bird my my statement earlier was that to pay a retainer uh or general funds General grants would be a general fund expenditure we have a lot of new general fund expenses anticipated for next year but if we were specific a Wastewater Grant a water grant that we could put into those funds uh take the burden off the general fund would be a possibility need to try to do and I think this meeting basically today is to brainstorm and try to come up with a A Way well today is to talk like you're doing how you like these companies um when we make a selection um we'll we'll uh we need to have our scoring back that up we're going to ask how ESP those that may not be selected want to know how they did so they can improve their performance in the future um and you may decide to to we have agreement with several companies ongoingly and then I'll come back to you with requests to look for Grants and so forth so today is just to to talk it out like we're doing keep your feelings we may sense a consensus of you know firms one two and three we like to move forward with them and then you'll you'll get to vote on that next Thursday but today is to to talk it about and get a sense of what your direction will be next Thursday and I'll notify those firms um if you want any them to come talk to us um I would give them a week's notice to make arrangements talk to [Music] explain my um you know I'm looking these over the three at the botom the jck books and it just like L said it seemed to me like their focus was more on your federal brands um they're all out of state one's out of Michigan one's out of California the other one's out of Maryland and so I don't know how familiar they are with Florida and our needs here and looking for the grants that um that are available for us and as far as what we need because often times what we need is very different from what they need in California or what they need in this um so that concerned me um Guardian I did notice that is um looks like they've done some work for Port Richie and I don't know if you open to Dey or anybody down in Newport Richie to see how their thoughts what their thoughts were on that um have we spoken to Fred Fox to see if by chance knowing that's what we're looking for is somebody to be a little more proactive on our behalf is does he have we spoken to him to see if that's something that he possibly could I mean just say the proposal that they would have a meeting and talk to us and get some direction motion I mean they haven't been doing now yeah I I understood that if we had something um that's the way I read that that that if we if we went to them and said look we want you to look for uh grants for this project that they would actually go out and research that for nothing and I think that that's important nothing is big and uh and then again any grant writer this way we've all kind of said the same way I feel so but but any anytime you write a grant you're not guaranteed that Grant so any grant writers only going to try and write the grants that they're going to get paid for so you know you always have to keep that in mind I think what I was and I I understand what you're saying that that's what he said but there's something we don't even know need that Fred would know that you know to look at he just bring it to our attention listen I don't know if this is something but I feel like um you should possibly look at this just based on what's going on in pres City and that's where I would want to know if FR would be willing if that's something that Fred would be willing to to do he has the staff capability to do that we can ask him to come talk to us about that the meeting next week well I think commissioner Banks just mentioned something uh possibly I thought i' had found a grant for the school and uh that's something maybe they could help us with yes so um I think just to follow up on what's been said about Fred Fox I really think it's important to ask him for categories of grants that he's willing to do without being paid up front and I think there's going to be like a two column thing on that some he would need to be paid and some he will just apply because he can be paid administrative Fe and we need to get clarification on that and I I I no way for him to do it for free he's not going to do it for no no I'm say need I think from an hourly basis if he has staff that he could send this out to you say listen Charles this is how much it would cost for us to look at for some and to me it would just be helpful to have tell us these are grants that I do whatever it is that percentage that I won't charge you up front there may be more than for cdbg um I I think it's important to pursue um help with Grant simply because as commissioner Banks mentioned I I think the grants are going to have to be somehow helping us either directly or indirectly for the middle school property um the other thing I wanted to ask both city manager and commissioner Burton is we have the two licenses with eus I went attended the online webinar about eus there's certain things we get for free and certain things we don't but we get two licenses um any more licenses you have to pay $250 for so I wondered if commissioner could share with us what kinds what are you what are you doing what are you accessing can you tell it to only show you certain things or how do you use E7 um there there's a there's many different ways that you can pull up to work for Grants and um I happen to use one uh what's the name of it I kind of forget it's you know I'm a push button kind of girl now but but basically how it works is I pay $199 every year for access to e of no no to another to another one for for Grants and so what it does for me though is it it takes it and it puts it all into uh State puts it Federal puts it it government it puts everything in an order in which I want to look at them and then of course course you know it's Florida it's not it's not for property it's for business it's for individual it's all different types of things that you may want and then you it it says you know give you it gives you categories and if you find something that you really want to do they do offer grant writers if you finally if you go and you talk to people and say is this what you really want okay you can now have you know them a grant rer come in and help you with that project I like it because I can find a lot of different things and I found a lot of small brants I find big rants I find all kinds of things in it um so I do it for fun are you not using e access that you have the the E Civics is not it doesn't separate things out quickly you have to really go through a lot of stuff and be able to to separate all that out and and so for me cuz I'm lazy I think it's worth my $99 to have that be easier for me to do that's all do you can you use this uh I I get almost daily he still sends me this bracket thing and it's just you have to really read like this is a great Grant well you have to be a tribe in Oklahoma be aible for that Grant so you have to read every single line to see what the qualification Grant and most of it's U very tightly qualified it's private TR it's like a fire I found that when it first came out and we were looking through it that it was like this is if you're in Chicago you know or this is you you're somewhere else and it just was hard to you had to really spend a lot you have to spend a lot of time have to spend a lot of time we two lies you have one so we could if you're not using yours we could transfer it somebody else wants to try it for a while I think she has it I don't have that was trying to say oh wait a minute I wouldn't pay the money but after the webinar that's not it I asked about e two years ago and they said your employee Cynthia burtman has one of the licenses so they said you can pay $250 more to have another license Char change probably that's when it first came out we were looking at it and we might have signed up I mean I was able to go into it initially so I mean maybe it's they sign we signed up but I found it very very difficult program to to use have a webinar that you and I both I mean separately um attended was I emailed them to find out and they sent me the information to sign up so I assumed that there was not that there was an extra license well just emailed that they were talking about they can tell you that's I was just I emailed them to see I'll tell you I'll give up my license and I haven't signed into it yet I mean I'll take look is that the one one that you because I set through one with um with them probably a year and a half two years ago yeah what I'm still not clear on and I I cannot remember must go back and look at my notes there's different levels of e is that not correct well there's there's like the basic the basic one which is to search through all the grants if you want to do if you want to do the additional thing that does Grant Administration all that that's that's the only thing you have to pay more for so there are the two included grants that town our has through ouring cities there's another level um I have to go Backes and I think it's still up can't we all just access the webinar now on the website yes can there there's another level I forget how much it costs it's not free and you get more help I still don't know if it's the kind of help we need but anyway um I'm not suggesting that not have the E license except she's not using it that realized that I was licensed I know I signed up and I didn't realize that it was for a license so I apologized about that it wasn't made clear it's okay I you know talk my my last question for commissioner B is very good for you for going out to find a place that you can search trans for for $199 a year what's the name of the company I'll get she sounded like you yes but you know down through the years 10 been very gracious toward our community and the citizen in this community so I I would think that we could communicate with him and get him to come I would have like to have him here today and to help us you know ramble through this process that what we are trying to do or he been very very aggress down through the years for and and he doesn't say this city the citizens of this city a lot of money for different grants that he have reached out and got CL so I would think that he would be gracious in representa repres he will come personally himself and just hows in May I have a question about that for the city manager yes so as far as having Fred Box come and talk to us since we haven't turned in our sport sheet yet can can we in other words since we're still turning on our score sheets is it appropriate would it cause any problems with the RFP to have asked Mr Fox to come to the next meeting or would we have to do that after we turn our score sheet no there's a line in the RFP about U City commission reserves the right to throw out all the all the input they can uh disregard your regularity they can ask people to come speak you have the ability to do what you want to get the so it doesn't matter the timing of it or like if we ask Fred we don't have to ask any of the others correct okay I just want to make sure but I agree with question so certainly would like to hear and I've never met Mr Fox in person been here well I don't remember which one he was but um he knows us very well he knows our community and he's done work for and other communities yes I would add from my former commissionership in 2003 we didn't have Fred Fox was doing our grants then and we also brought a board some another firm it was Jordan Associates who that's now works for northeast Florida cities but she came aboard and it kind of helped a little while to have two of them because they were kind of I think it motivated the other side you know it's competition in way it kind of helped got quite a few more Grant applications in France that next year um so I don't think it would be bad I like the fact that having back down here or or D say the sun um to talk to us and possibly still have someone else and get them to because I Fred Box is going to look for the stuff that he knows and he does know pres City very well and he knows the F program and the cdbg program um but I I want I think we need to cast our net a little wider too so if we can get him to do that that would be great because he is familiar with everything but um I I don't mind getting something else too and I think that with Guardian Charles you might reach out to Guardian and see if they want to come in and do their presentation I you know about hour get here [Music] it's if it's more for them but I think Just In fairness um especially if we know that we could you know with with two different companies just depending I I still think though that that it doesn't give us what we're necessarily we get we have grants we have you know we've been applying for Grants doesn't give us what the commission has been talking about and that's somebody that's actually actively pursuing things that will benefit the city um and so that's just something I think that you need to as you go forward with both Guardian anded Fox to know that that's really kind of why we're here today because like I said they've been doing that mid hour has been doing that for us too that mid hour do some of that grants for us you know so it's not that we're not getting grants written it's we're looking for those grants that we're not having that we're not looking into of the city that we don't even know we need just one thing talking about you know looking for more things and having more help um I'm so glad that commissioner Lory mentioned that one time we had did so what occurred to me was um there might be smaller operations out there who didn't necessarily maybe they don't look for rfps maybe they have business of MTH was bety d a small offer yes okay so it occur me maybe we should ask Betsy and other small cities when we come into contact or pick up the phone and give some calls can you guys can you guys recommend to somebody who's a a like a researcher or R writer who's you know like a a small operations person and I was when commissioner Lor even mentioned bety I was like I didn't even I didn't even think about that but that's something that somebody might want to you know mo Moonlight you know with us a couple of hours a month you know however and to have somebody like Betsy come in and talk to us about what that would entail um you know I mean or finding finding the grants you know is one thing but we can hand them off to someone else to write so that might actually be finding takes a lot of time but um I think it I think it's worth our while there's other Commissioners that we come into contact with or have met from small cities you could just send them an email say do you do you know of any local area Grant riders that you recommend to us CU I know RS I don't know who writes them so I think okay so with this discussion um you know the scoring sheet I'll be honest with you in fairness to give them our scoring sheet um just because it was difficult it was difficult to pull some of that information out exactly actually give them a proper score on it um you know we're not we're not grant writers we you know we we don't have that expertise and I thought like some of this um we would need that qualifications of Key Personnel yeah some of them had you know theyve gotten one I think they got a billion dollars in Grants and like yeah I like that person you know that doesn't mean that um that I that that needs to be you know how do you score that um there was a newer one the jet code they see seem to be a younger firm um and so I don't think that's apples and oranges for how much they've gotten in comparison so I don't know that the I don't know how the commission feels about this but um when I was scoring on it was and a lot of them some of them I just put unknown it was unknown they experience identifying potential grants we don't we don't know what yeah all the potential that's out there you know how we don't know how they've been interacting with municipalities um so I just looked at what they told us I mean one thing I noticed I could not find in there where it said availability to start um qualifications of Key Personnel that was um I mean I thought that was pretty easy you could you know look at the resumes of years availability and depth of staff and resources um I felt like you know when you say depth but staff that seems to relate to numbers and experience um and then some of these they all seemed very professional and I thought you know at a high level and then experience identifying potential grants I just looked at what they told us in the papers uh because you're right there's no way you can know beyond that but I do have a request of our city manager if we ever do this again um is it number one um because some of them didn't respond to you ask for examples of their work please don't ever do that again it made the packet too thick I mean I understand the the reason you would ask and the other thing is um for some of these things that we wanted them to do like can when you do the RFP can you have to fill out a box for some of that basic stuff like um when are you available to start or what you know like to have them put some of the stuff in the Box um I mean you learn something from the way they set up for package but it was it was a lot of Guardian was actually that was more beneficial to me to be able to see what they've been doing so that didn't bother me and it showed who was more thorough if they could sum it up in a box and tell us what page number some of that stuff is on anyway okay so with that it sounds like right now commission I think somewhat of a consensus that we're looking at Guardian Fred Fox are we looking to to bring any of the other three from now state in for discussion at all I mean I was partial to jeto was of the rest of them I liked them I thought they you know they had a good variety of stuff that I hadn't even heard of some of so I was like well that's it could be helpful but I definitely think Fred boxing AR we to hear from um I would not mind hearing from jetco because my um feeling about them is as she said there they are a newer Farm they're younger um but they there are some um they're not quite as expensive and there are some services that maybe we could take advantage of we I think it early days to know exactly what we're going to want well but it looks to me like so Charles with this because jetco to me that's a retainer it sounds like is that that 2,000 a month is that was that retainer on retainer yes um plus time and materials average it'd be $9,000 per submission they were apply for Grants which that's you know I'm not saying I'm not saying we a retain but would not from rain sometimes do work so well I think if you do reach out to Charles you might want to just make sure that they're aware that the retainer might not be an option but if they want to look for Grants and what's [Music] the and I like somebody let us know already they $9,000 on average so they're all expensive to that grand Guardian $10,000 think we for that I think we need to talk to First from there we try to lure somebody way they got come a long ways to do the presentation go through all that I know said I he would be gracious to come to us commission may so I think we have to keep in mind that even if we told these people that we accepted their proposal we're not required to use them anything we we are not obligated not the first two pardon not the first two exactly and so um if jetco doesn't want to give us any other options we don't have to accept that right so but um I mean in a way to me um I would like to hear from Guardian I mean I'm fine if they do it by Zoom because I think the more we learn the better off we are and it doesn't mean that we won't use red fox as our top person I think it just um gives us a better understanding of what's out there and what different people like DJ said um he felt like when you Crescent City had two that there was a little competition um I I just think it would broaden our Horizons a little bit but know Mr Fox does things for us very economically and that is very important and very successful it's been very successful yeah we don't want to kick to absolutely Guardian fees that for fap as an example that 10,000 comes out of the Grant I don't think that's an [Music] well understanding not all grants the person getting to pay the um it doesn't always come out and that's why okay I say this I'd like to ask C what of all the grants he does which ones are the category where he can get paid out of the Grant and which ones are category where we would if we want one of those we would have to have that divided into cols so [Music] let's guardan do it and just go from there [Music] I just want make sure thank you okay I'm open up for public comments at this time on this on this item if you want to um have anything to say please come forward state your name and your address if you please Kar you done Frank 83 L Shore Drive I think one of the criterias for grading the grant riter should be Florida based we don't need someone outside the State of Florida that's my opinion we should also reach out to puam County and perhaps the puam county schools to see if they have any Grant Riders on board that we could uh network with and learn what they have got going um also we can network with other local city managers of pounds our size to see what success they've had with great writers and who those people might [Music] be and I'm not familiar with Fred Fox but from all I've heard here just this afternoon I think he's our go-to guy to kind of pick his brain about what's successful for a count of our size so I reach out to him i' reach out to P County to see if they have any grant writers what their success rate is and what projects they've got success with and also C count schools so that's it thank you thank you we have any other speakers at this [Music] time no else yesion a short break I going do a five minute break so I'm going to do a five minute recess before we don't to our next topic [Music] okay our Workshop our recess okay I'm turn it back over to you Charles thank you mayor uh did a little summary in your the cover of your packet um for after your decision to the city wanted to acquire the middle school property or we shot the school board and um let them know and need to know what that was going to cost and they said well let me let us huddle internally they spoke and they go back to me they did and essentially invited us to um to make an offer they said they're very interested in the city acquiring uh probably very motivated so but sort of this will be a negotiation process so the first round will be um you putting forth an offer I did provide for some context of the experience had um um they had I think it's Jenkins there was valued was a praise at $416 million pla city of blacka offered $600,000 and their City Hall Annex Building and that offer was decline so uh similarly uh one of your decision points would be um you want to acquire the entire piece or uh minus the PE portion that's currently on the market so the entire the entire property um apprais at $ 4.28 million and the portion that's not on the market is a price of $3.5 million so that would be something for your consideration um first your first off can I just say something [Music] yes okay we have a school that right now supposedly can't be school supposedly needs to be totally revamped it's on a pretty pricey piece of property but s are some houses on that same type of property that go for a whole lot less than $4.2 million um so I'm wondering why is it when they assess school property the starting number is $4.2 million because even the one up in was not on Prim property right it was $4.2 Million though so do they just say well we're going to sell the schools for $4.2 million a lot more AC AC or something it's a huge a different size campus to answer CH B's question the appraisal was done byal appraiser but then they go through and they look at all those things like SM footage and building but what they did is they compared it to as value as a charter school and they use two comparable two comparable properties one in Jacksonville and one in Orlando and then they use that to derive the value of what that property would have me is completely flawed yes and is just you know outrageous as far as the real value of it because you know there would be has been money invested in it I mean it's not usable as a school right now because I mean that's why the count is not having it as a school anymore we know that so I I just think the appraisal is completely out of question as far as even a starting ground um you call a professional appraisal but without appraisal you know without anything to compare it to you're not really getting just not not even in the ballpark but um my my way of looking at this is okay we need to do a little bit more research we need to do a lot more research we need to do a lot more talking and negotiating and I think that just going back and forth with you going to the school district is not going to get us where we need to go no offense but we've talked I talked far as commissioner and um for a long time now about having a panel of people that have some more experience and more background this kind of a thing getting together and being able to you know negotiate and talk on our behalf and and working on this besides you know having to just put it all your back and going back and forth between us I mean it is kind of bulky having to have the entire commission and a public meeting to to discuss these things but I think that there are some people with a lot more experience in real estate and law and real you know real estate law that could probably help us out in this I mean we have a a history with the school that goes back into the 1900s and that it was built and as The gilberg Institute it was given with some strings to the state to the school district um there's also property that the that was added on after that that the school district did buy but there were some strings attached to that too in fact even the U Cypress Avenue that the city vacated and gave to the school district has a reverter cause in it to return it to City so I mean there's all kinds of things that we need to be looking at here as far as how to value that property I mean I I don't think we need to even start with a number at the moment we need to do some more work some more leg work and we need to approach this in a reasoned and you know just a a more thought out process I I don't think going back in for the numb is going to get us to where we need to go because we know that we're going to be having to invest a lot of money in that property we have to decide what we're going to do with it and we have to inspect it and get a structural engineer tell us what it's going to be and or what's what's good and what's not and how much it's going to cost us and I I don't want to rush into this and kind of tie up a lot more time or really just blow it by you know I talking about getting a bomb right now is just way ahead of the the game I think we need to do our work do our homework and come at this at a a better angle I'm glad talking about um so my thoughts were um certainly I would like for us to make a favorable response to the school board that we have heard that they're interested in having us acquire the property or what's the exact word that use Charles enthusiastic did that describe it I think that's great and I also um have the feeling commissioner Lori us words we don't want to blow it um I would like to see this come to fruition um but to me it's it's a big job it's going to take a lot of planning it's going to me it's going to take many hands and many types of expertise I was hoping when we first started discussing the whole issue of the award vacating the site and the possibility um of us I mean it's in our 5year strategic plan it's been there since 2021 that we have an aspiration to um find another site for the school and to acquire that site that's our 5e plan um I was hoping based on some things the school board said that this would not just be um you know hey make us a specific offer um I was hoping they would work with us both on time um and maybe make it a gradual turnover I mean I was hoping that they would work with us and I would like us to think about some ways that they could work with us and one thing to me we don't know is um are they they had said before they were going to plan to use parts of the property for a while um is can they give us an update on that are are they completely done with it or would you know they still want they mention they might need to use the auditorium and use the gym so number one um I would certainly like to express to them our appreciation and our desire to acquire this property and to find out um how if any they could work with us and I don't know um I don't know again that we should put that all off on you um but and I think also you know it's very interesting we have ident we have this master plan that's coming up um there's going to have to be other uses for the property and I think um I think we're going to need Partners if we acquire that property we're going to need Partners other people who are interested in making use of that property whether it's a nonprofit or I mean one or more nonprofits or some businesses so I think the master plan process is important and also just I'm hoping we can establish a relationship with the school board and really get get a little get a little bit help down even if it's yes sir I I really think Commission and we all is kind of on the same line I think we need to get other people involved what got the the knowledge of certain areas uh you know and get them to get a committee together and and report back to us and you know I think our city manager should be part of that you know but I really think we need people with expect you know got different experience in certain potion you know we commission we don't know nothing about about that so I think we need to try to I don't know how we going to be able to do it try to get some people that are willing to work on that group they got the knowledge of certain parts of it real estate well it really could could help us come up with a bid yeah right if I right now I say 380 and and see what they said you know I mean because we don't have the knowledge and that's what we need yeah we need I think that's something where you come in and we look at do we need to get a buer w that's that's first in this type of commercial real we're not real we can't practice real estate um I am I am but we can't practice real estate um and so I I just think that that's something that we need to think about that having a buyer rep um that would represent us um that's that's versed in this type of commercial activity um this is a little different than us going buying a building to put the coffee shop in this is you know this is a big purchase with lot of components with it and um I think if this is the direction we're going to go um and and with commissioner deito from what you know you're saying my understanding that Charles has already spoken to them convey that we're trying to work this out they're um this is not Market my understanding anytime soon simply because they need it just in case they have to um use it um it's called a transitional I think is what they're calling is Transitional um in case something happens while they're working on a high school and there's some displaced students and they have to put students there or the same thing with the elementary school the elementary school right now is not scheduled to go online until um September of or August of 2025 possibly closing there in June 2025 and that's their projection right now so I mean I think we have we have some time um there's nobody that we heard of obviously nobody's buying a vacant piece of property at this time and so I mean I know they could but they could but if there's something that we could do that we have light of first refusal um yes you know if we have something in place that they know that we are are serious well and mayor that's one of the notes I wrote down you know could we have an option or write of first refusal or give us a couple of years um I mean we need to come up with some kind of Ste plan and I think that's what um commissioner Banks and commissioner L have kind of referred to bringing some people together and also I think some of our some of our investigation needs to be potential grants potential partners and do this is kind of awkward because it's an election year and our representative Bobby pay and our state senator are both turned out so it's not like we have a specific person we can go to right now but I would think this would be the kind of issue um that we would want whoever gets elected we would want to speak to them about in fact maybe we would be we might want to talk to repr before he leaves in November and see if he could um because I think he he has a good relationship with um both the outgoing Senator and possibly yes so in a way to me um you know we need to start looking at all those possibilities and because we don't know what's going to turn up and I think also I mean I I think what Charles was with the bond referendum that eventually we know that we're going to have to I mean grants are not a sure thing so us going forward with this and trying to buy it saying that you know based and and renovate it based on grants often times with those grants we have to have matching funds we don't have that some of this is going to have to be financed we know that um regard whe partner regard I think some of it and I think that's where um M least my thoughts Is We I cannot in good faith um look at putting us in debt without knowing that that's what our community all the community really wants agre and and um and so I think that's something that I don't know Charles if we do this um you know the deadline to even do a bond referend too late to do this year is it too late to do it this year so it would be it have to be on the next on the next B well I spoke to a firm that doesn't they felt we could make November ballot okay to get on the ballot Accord to Charles over is August I thought we had still thought we still had time with that I just didn't know when we had time so um and and so I don't know I think that as we go down this this road and start putting this money into it um um it's just that's just you know that's my thoughts I know in a perfect world yes absolutely we would love to be there we have love to have a a compound hey I'd love to have the fire department there everybody there um but we're not in a perfect world and so we've got to maneuver through this and make sure that that all of the residents or at least the majority that's what we need the majority of the residents feel that this is the direction the city needs to go in don't you think we need to try to get that commit together first before we go to looking at buing money and doing this and doing that you could you could appoint a committee next week yeah we need to comme negotiate on the price I think we kicking can a little too quick yeah we need to get that committed together first yes and and let them negotiate with get back to us and get with a price y I think we need do that then we can go further once we get a committ together I think I think if I'm not mistaken I don't I think kind of got off the square not doing something like that first they was so they want to reach out there and they put a price and they got let down but I think if we do it right if we do it right the same time we we get that committed together people with experience on that and we got a lot of people retired people in this community I think be very willing to disc on that commity to help us help the city um I think that also what happened with that building with the Jenkins purchase is they had an o report that came out from that Campell when they did that lift pum do you remember the lift you w okay they had a lift pum which is a foundation and I guess that was before they had the prek and they gave it to them I think for $10 and they received an oig report back that was very critical so that probably would jenkinson help um with some of their with some of their thinking that they didn't want to be they didn't want to get in into that type of a situation and now that LIF is now um but um you're saying school board from the state that we had report and I believe state law allows them to make gifts um certainly to another public entity I didn't see the um I guess you're saying that's the that was a private Foundation it right that was a private found what is the o is that an inspector General yeah I think the office of Inspector right so um I certainly would actually help was that must been what 15 years [Music] ago transfer that would be the kind of thing that a committee could look at could share with us I would like to see what said yeah to make sure it used to be back in the day that if it was a um you know if it was a public building that before they surplused it they had to reach out to the other government entities to see if they had interest in it that's may we could we could create an application and immediately just post and advertise that we're looking for volunteers for a a blue ribon committee has been referred um to assist us in the process and then you all could sort through those bring names of your own encourage people to apply and then make that decision on the 14th to point that that committee we're going to have are we going to have we have that allow us time next th well you could decide there AR enough applicants we could we can start commission the the commission you Cano two or three or you can appoint how many and that would be a starting point are about doing this for next week for next week decision you can add more members to it people that hear about it late as far as the Criterion does it have to be somebody that lives within the city or can it be somebody outside the city I mean that's something as far I'm Mak sure we not [Music] got well actually I couldn't hear Burton because she talking to her mic didn't know whether she said they need to live C okay good I think we might limit our expertise tool is that what yall are saying I'm sorry I just okay we we can move forward with that and we'll get that posted tomorrow and um start saying would you with this Blue Ribbon committee is this something that if we decided or if they decided if they recommended that we need a buyer agent or somebody to represent us I guess at that time they would bring that recommendation back to us yes okay but and also um I would assume that we want our city manager to be part of the does comes back to us for times we don't we don't I don't feel that we're in the loop as things are kind of happening so it would be nice to be well this will be a sunshine committee will be noticed and just we have like commission up get a report we'll get a report at the commission meetings does that does that take care your concern commissioner B okay commissioner and then um since we are having a workshop on this topic um I don't know I just I feel like we need to send some kind of message back to the school district I don't know who Charles exactly is dealing with is that Mr B Mr Bing okay so has this come before the school board at all no I don't know what's happened over there no it has not okay I can communicate to him your decision we are moving forward we are moving very interested and want to get an offer together sense up and my understanding is when an offer is made he will take if he feels that if they feel that it's that it's an offer then they'll take it to the board it wasn't clear but I guess um my hope would be that the message we convey is very positive and appreciative and like we're you know working hard trying to get things done but um well I guess I guess that's [Music] all well I do have a question um we actually we have not one but two schools that are being vacated have um and there's the provision for the I forget the name of it but there's the interlocal agreement that provides for committees to meet have there been any more meetings I know you went to a meeting commissioner were you a commissioner when you were justj as a citizen you still justj attended um have there been any more meetings under event that's what I'm aware okay because as well you know Middleton buring is being vacated there and that affects us so I'm going to go back and look at the inter loal agreement and see what does say about you know involving a city when we vacating a school I know it says something that's create another problem for or an opportunity or an opportunity this is an opportunity yeah the um at that meeting in July we're going to rework the agreement and you haven't received anything from from [Music] before the County Commission and all the municipalities to be reapproved Chang well let's do let's work on one thing at a time let's make sure that as we try to build this relationship back with the school district that we have to be we have to be conscious yes problem while I got you together um we did a survey on um dates for the master plan Workshop I got four responses I can't tell who responded it looks like the 19th U of what of March is was the favored date 3M on the 19th which is this the master plan Soo will come and present the master plan we'll have nothing else on the agenda so what's the other dates we have next time you do it need put in a sare our Nam that's a good idea it just shows me your IP address who responded there were four responses so far there was another date which was um there were two dates where I had 100% availability I don't think I saw that there was a survey I was going to ask about that I saw email from you but I don't think I picked up on the fact that there was a link think the 27th was the other day 27n I can handle that o00 and I I cannot do that Wednesday which one the 27th no I cannot do the 27th I could I could do the 19th but commissioner Banks can't [Music] there I only two days where four of you could make it afternoon results will on the 19 we you want to it to us and take the 19000 I'm trying to coordinate the consultant being there okay do the he can yeah you can do it earlier that day yeah I could do it ear my appointment I appointment in 4:15 so so [Music] 1:00 could do it at noon Mee start the lunch meeting if you feed them they will come so March 19th is everybody in agreement with March I'll make sure I'll reach out consult okay is that it I open com okay opening up public comment at this time please come forward state your name and your address if you will you have three minutes a little good afternoon my name is Danny no my address is 1400 Sunset Bri Winter Park and ccent City native and tax fair I would respectfully ask that you turn Grand off yeah don't need this is important and it's really impossible to speak to it in in thank you I appreciate that Indulgence uh as y all know this is something I've spoken with you many times and I tried my best to kind of keep up and and to be informed and uh I come to it with some real estate development experience so U to kind of set quick background just some very quick comments on the appraisal uh the appraisal really can't be rely upon there are condition issues they said the school's in wonderful condition uh the S as commissioner already noted are terrible there are potential complications inter local agreement there's history and title issues there's going to be gray areas all over the title there going to be development uh issues and so I'd respectfully suggest that any conversation of an offer is way way way from mature uh rather we should look for a partnership opportunity with the school district and approach it from that standpoint okay I want to get bogged down on that I want to speak to the theme that I heard expressed by all Commissioners which is to kind of a collaborative approach uh to this many of us have probably served at some point our professional career a task force a working group a blue ribbon committee um and such groups are typically formed to meet a big challenge uh to solve a big problem to realize a bold Vision something big by the preservation and repurposing of the school uh I think all of us recognize that that vision for the school will be a Monumental task people serving on such a blue ribbon committee for lack of a better term they must be passionate about with what they did what they're doing they got to be 110% committed they have to be qualified and that's critically important they have to be qualified and able I heard mention that you will put out uh a request if if that approach is taken as opposed to identifying talent and inviting them to join you really may need to State qualifications because some folks are going to apply and they're going to be disappointed and really what we want is CommunityWide support uh the people who were on such a blue committee have be representative of stakeholders and effective parties and as such you're able to each bring their unique perspective to the project another critical thing I heard mentioned they have to have often specialized skill sets difficult to find often in a small small community we've got some here got some very qualified uh uh retired folks uh and they respective Fields but often you have to backfill this necessary where that Talent is just not available by bringing in an outsider maybe a Hired Hand of sorts so this Blue Ribbon committee why is this used on big projects successfully fundamentally no one of us is as smart of all as all of us uh we each bring unique perspectives fresh perspectives that that any small group might miss on and then of course you bring the varied skill sets that by harnessing that Synergy we bring kind of common cause and everybody has a vested interest and it as opposed to here's the plan and it's kind of people might feel it's a little opposed to they they didn't have the opportunity for input okay what would such a blue ribbon committee actually do they Define the objective and collabora collaboratively come up with a solution create that plan collaborative collaboratively pardon me and create a timeline I mentioned a partnership with school district do we really know what their objective is I heard some questions GE what do they want when do they want so we have to begin by understanding what the school district's objectives are what their timeline for that is because if we're going to have a true partnership with them we've got to mesh with them um make them our partner it's not as simple as just here how much will we take for the property so so this blue rib committee creates a plan you the the uh Commissions in the driver seat uh adjustments are made and eventually the uh commission hopefully would approve this plan has so the group kind of does a tell and cell all the way along the line uh and with with regular reporting it has to be very discipline smart methodical process uh and then they implement the plan again under the direction and control of the commission but the group ideally would be responsible and accountable for what they do and at the end of course what's left is to celebrate his success so I mentioned that reserve and repurpose historic school is a Monumental task um I I believe very strongly that to realize that vision and achieve the success that requires this task force approach um so laid all this out we have this challenge I told you a couple of years ago and never come before you uh talking about a problem or a challenge without proposing a uh solution Mak recommendations without that simply whining um i' recommend that one of yall and commissioner Rory's friends tonight go out and talk to people in the community who uh I mean there are leaders in the community there are people who have great wisdom who have great experience who can really bring something important to this and ask gee how might such a blue ribm committee work uh do you see yourself having a role in this is there someone else that you might recommend to to me that uh could fill this need uh we want to be representative of the various viewpoints and then to come back and excuse me also to find out those outside resources identify them and then to come back say in 60 days perhaps in another Workshop format and give a specific recommendation to this committee but it to to just kind of throw it open I think doesn't give du weight to really what's needed it's credible that people be aiming and have the Practical experience and training to meet the name um oh one last comment the school boards our responsible the school board I'm read we need to give them something there is no sense of urgency that I see it's not a red hot real estate market out there that school uh property has tremendous complications I would suggest that anything like an option is premature and that perhaps instead someone who's perhaps close to the uh School District uh perhaps Charles and uh John new's friends of mine he's close to the school district just sit down and and uh say we're working on it we're working hard on it um we'll get back with you as soon as we can and uh but please assure us just get your assurance that should you ever consider listing it please get us a give us a heads up first because this is an opportunity for both school district and us and you know we don't want to be running and playing catchup which frankly we're doing you after three years thank you you've been so indulgent with your time I appreciate I hope this thank [Music] you Michael frank3 Lake I wanted to offer myself as a volunteer for this blue rhym committee because in my careers in I've done numerous schools from elementary to Middle to high school to universities I think I'd be a valuable asset to be part of that Community team and I think we should open it up to everyone that wants to be a part of the community not a select few you just don't know where you're going to get a really a good comment from someone you would never suspect it from so and that engages your community and I think everyone would like to see that school transition to this city admin building and maybe historical society and the original part of that and multiple uses for the existing buildings there so primarily I just wanted to offer my expertise my experience to be a part of that committee so and I'll leave you with one last comment let's not rush to fail let's take our time and do this right amen thank you and and I hope that from this Workshop from the comments I'm hearing from the audience I think that's kind of the attitude that we're also taking is that we want to make sure we're doing it right and that um we're not rushing into this and I don't think the school board is point I mean the school district is going to rush into it either so um I just hope that was that was my takeaway Commissioners I hope you feel the same way um so I just want to make sure that that who that yes sir sorry conno and everyone I I first want to say you introduce yourself please oh yes thank you you I always need help welcome Dan Dodge 218 South Main Street CH city um I want to compliment this Commission on their thoughts and comments tonight I want to thank Charles for bringing this to this point for introducing it uh and meeting with the school board I know that our community are going to be so proud of this conversation today and the wisdom set forth by each and every one of you this is starting a very important process that the majority of our citizens have great passion for and the city has a need for and um so I'm very excited excited about it and I think that you're wise to analyze the data uh and formulate a plan because it's it's complicated and I've read um that with many appraisals and the comments that you you spoke up about you're you're dead right um and being a seller of property commercial property and a buyer of commercial property it's two ways uh certainly you're selling it you want to put the best put forward as a purchaser you want to get it get it for the best dollar and um so um again path through cing I think is very wise and it's very encouraging um I don't think you're going to have any problem at all finding volunteers to serve on your on this committee and um and once again I'm very excited about thank you all again thank you thank you for your comments we have any other speakers yes commissioner when everyone has had chance to speak um I have a couple of thoughts that I would like to share with the commissioner um on a couple of comments about the test for do we have any other speakers at this time see no one come for I'm going to close yes commission so um first of all I feel very blessed that we had people come and sit through the meeting and speak to us I thank them all and they all offer different things first of all um Dan Dodge offered enthusiasm because I think um when we look at this I was very enthusiastic about um Charles initiative um but then we get bed down in details and I kind of lost my enthusiasm so Dan Dodge reminded me that this is very happy that we are talking about it we making plans um that was wonderful um as well um Danny Miller made a lot of very specific practical suggestions he talked about expertise I agree with that um I just a couple things um I think is important to consider putting this committee together um and also Mr Frank said you he suggested we cast a wider net my observation about a committee and heaven knows I have served on enough committees neighborhood committees Statewide committees Church committees um this is going to be a um public meeting so since it's a public meeting to me I think sorry well going back a minute um Dan Miller talked about different [Music] viewpoints I kind of certainly people will have different viewpoints about the direction but I think the main purpose of this and all the people who serve the whole purpose of this is to figure out how we can best acquire this property and so to me the different viewpoints if you're if you're not on board for acquiring the property and figuring out the best way to help us to do it then I don't think this committee is for you you should com to the commission later so to me it needs to be core people who want to get this done people who have the expertise um I think if we're not sure that you have the expertise maybe we should just invite you to come to the meetings that are going to be held that are going to be open and speak and we can always appoint more people at that time but um I'm more concerned about getting the people with expertise to test them with a responsibility and then let everybody come let everybody volunteer and maybe they'll tell us hey we need more people so that's just my thoughts on how to go about it after listening to our really wonderful public commenters that was right com no I'm very pleased with the way we approaching it sure I really won't w't I'm hoping that they get it online because I'm not seeking reelection but I I want to make sure that the city get that property down don't i r out now well that the pressure that's good I think we talked about earlier you know some sort of an option and I understand what Mr Miller was saying is that you know we don't know that somebody won't go to them and and make an offer and they have a fiduciary responsibility to to the district and the taxpayers and so I think somehow or another um we need to make sure that that we do get some sort of opportunity right for you got charger schools out there right now and so you never know if somebody's going to come in there and make an offer to them I know that's not the direction they you know they would want to I know they very much this I think maybe our attorney their attorney of course no we can't do that because our attorney is is conflict that's an issue too I forgot about that we now have a conflict because n their attorney their attorney is our one thing I would help you all talk about expertise if you could just share a little bit other than the obvious you mentioned real estate and development architecture what are things would you consider relevant expertise so someone we could maybe put a summary on the application um maybe check the box what kind of background you have that makes you know provide good input to the committe I wrote some things down son would you share those with us please I did so I was just as Mr Miller was talking I was thinking so obviously real estate um my thoughts are planning have served on a committee of this type where you're with a specific goal in mind um business I would think would be one business owner I would say business management yes that BJ to commission FL took the words right out of my mouth um anyone with a higher level planning background I like land plan um land planning business planning financial planning yes I appraisal apprisal commcial estate very process they would come the financial I just I just wanted to say you know we've been kicking this can for a long time and I think it was like the last couple meetings you know where I finally just said we got to stop kicking the can and make a decision where we made the decision that the the commission finally just said yes we're going to so after this the the biggest thing I think that kind of is still holding us back is how to pay for it all so hopefully this committee will come together and give us a give us a good number give us a good path to achieve our goal of getting school that's what this is all about today so I would just like to say I'm proud of this commission to actually having this discussion and moving forward because this has been something that I've been pass about for a while and we've been talking about for a long time but we haven't been talking about it we've been talking around it so this is giving us math board that I think is the best chance of success so I'm happy that we're all I'm happy we're all happy I think and and with a proposal that's the other thing and Charles you know as this committee um it's it's not just this is our figure but you're going we're going to have to make a proposal so it's going to have to that's why I say you really need somebody that has that expertise because you're going to have to lay out timelines you're going to have to lay out a lot of um a lot of issues that we're going to run into that hopefully this Blue Ribbon committee can address and incorporate because that's something that they're going to take into consideration that's something they're going to need to take into consideration I know youve got um we have on this agenda we have on this agenda the architecture I was going to ask them to come back with a proposal to do the analysis what that would cost us toiz building structural analysis buildings what take to but they need the systems the cical [Music] systems ask not make note of it the the RFP for architectural services where I didn't where does that stand we we got one response and there a firm that specializes in historic preservation and their package their [Music] response so we already have planed to ask them to bring a proposal to do the plans for the Masonic lodge and we'll also ask them to give you a proposal to assess the buildings on Camp because they they have extensive experience in historic buildings okay can I ask question another topic are we going to have financials with our packet yes and um additionally our ARA funds that we had set aside there was money that we set aside for economic stimul or what economic but we didn't spend all of that correct but we need to before the end of this year correct I don't think they have exed they exed it already have an opportunity potentially a pharmacy coming to town so yeah I just want to make sure that we're we're aware of that that we don't want to give any money back to the federal government that's oh no use it or L it well just hang on isn't part of what we allocated ARA before for to pay the architect to do devaluation for the M this is additional about that right no that's good I just want to clarify that part of that money was designated to pay they are it's looking I hate to say it looks like we won't need all that money we'll come back to you when we finish there's left over you can move that over into three bananas we're get four three bananas have to close them for day to fix that coordinating them do we have anything else until until we meet again okay then then I'm going to go ahead and we're going to turnour this Workshop thank you all for being here thank you for your inp go in peace go in peace