##VIDEO ID:uvsEhyIGrB0## Committee of the whole meeting um and we will do uh update do oh we have to do roll call don't we okay roll call can can you just wait one second I need to turn I thought you said I was ready I thought I was I'm ready finally as long as everything was shut off okay sorry Mr chair okay um we will start the crowing County committee oh I don't have to do that over again no okay we're recording all along sorry but I'm ready to call roll if you're ready oh please would you call roll commissioner coring I'm here commissioner luy here commissioner barrels I'm here commissioner franzine here commissioner hog here all members are present thank you okay now we'll do the update from the collections work with uh Jeff how do you pronounce your last name moan moan yes yes I have a hand up for everybody thanks CH thank you sir thank you yeah and then you can put the other two on that table over or whatever you have left over there thank you no email again good morning good morning morning my name is Jeff moan and uh I am the operations manager at community services and I supervise the fraud Collections and claims team I wanted to today bring my team uh along um we are missing one individual um but I wanted to bring my team along uh to put a face to the names to the jobs um so very proud of the work that this team of three does for our community um for they maintain the Integrity of our re reent eligibility processes uh and they're making sure the benefits are given to those individuals at an appropriate level and eligible applicants and recipients um they do wonderful work so bringing your attention to the document that I had sent you first we have the fraud prevention investigations and what I'm going to do is go through there's three specific uh areas there's a fraud there's Collections and there's claims so our fraud prevention investigation is our fpi program this is a program that goes through um the office of Inspector General it's a grant program and in order to uh be awarded these grants we have to follow specific data numbers um specifically our cost benefit ratio on the bottom of that of the bottom right of that fraud piece um if you look at 2023 um we have referrals cases um this is numbers of referrals coming from uh County workers coming from the public um both inside our County and outside our County um our cost savings and our cost savings is is what we saved by identifying uh fraud in a situ ation um overpayments are the the dollar amounts that we are um um too many benefits were issued to a recipient due to an error so those are overpayments that are set up that the recipients then pay back or pay back typically our cost benefit ratio we have to be at we have to maintain a $3 cost benefit ratio to maintain our um Grant from the office of inter office of Inspector General um the last two years have been off the charts with our um tremendous numbers Michelle is a is a fairly new fraud investigator um and and has done a tremendous job relle and Alicia um work very closely together on all of our fraud cases um and Alicia handles a lot of the policy that revolves around our fraud cases and Michelle does a lot of the investigations along with our fraud cases um pardon oh I thought some before you Jeff can I ask you a question you move on Yeah just something that you just said that just back up a little bit you said that if there's a a mistake made because we're talking about fraud but if somebody might be getting benefits but it might not be fraud it might be a mistake is that right that's 100% right yep yep and that's that's going to be more of our next next uh uh piece so right now we're just talking about uh about fraud that's that they're typically fraud frauding the system or trying to um you know many times in a fraud investigation it's determined in in fact most cases in our fraud investigations it's determined that there is an error um or it's it's not not an intentional fraudulent activity but there is some fraud going on where AB this this system and how long have you been doing this Jeff um about uh about two years uh supervising this team okay so I just trying to get a handle on if it seems like fraud is getting worse or if it's if things are getting better or I mean in the two years can you gauge that I mean are are people trying to scam it even more I know there's just a lot of there's a lot of bad people out there we see this yeah we see this uh the 250 million to feed the children down in the cities and you know that Contin that case continues to work its way through the system but uh what do you think Jeff just your opinion on yeah and and I think uh you know we have attended and I'll let Michelle speak to this because I know that she wants to um but I I know uh you know based on some of our feedback from uh the fraud investigator conferences and the state of Minnesota um people are getting more tricky uh little SM with how they're how they're trying to get away with things uh and this is where we're putting our energy and our effort into um blatant intentional fraud as opposed to um you know the the errors or I you know I made a mistake on my application um you know easier things like that we give a a a slap on the wrist we try to set up an overpayment um but some of the some of the individuals and I know relle there's some uh at or there some uh EBT skimming that's been going on I'll let you kind of speak to um some of that if you want sure so I um earlier in the year for exam or probably maybe even a couple weeks ago I think it was the trend that we had discovered where people were um making applications um and they're indicating that they were from Florida and in turn we don't really know where they're at and our County uh recognized this trend this newer one where they were uh at asking us to send cards off to somewhere else um and subsequently I subpoena um the IP address we went through as far as we could regarding this and then notified the state um and then I was able to communicate with other County agencies and we were discovering that the party was uh still using the name that I had applying to other places as well so you're right there are people that are here trying to um fraudulently uh obtain our assistance I also think it's important to note too that from I know everything is like fiscal year stuff um what I did is I have something called the phase system and that's where I entered in all my data and I think it's important to know that um he had showed the last couple of years so in 2023 for savings and overpayments we had a total of $865,000 that we I call it recovering and that could be of various reasons correct there's errors there are people who are failing to report uh adequate income employment and household composition and that's what I basically investigate um I fully took over uh last fall so I kind of wanted to see the number difference from 2024 and this is from January to uh November and we have currently had a combined savings and overpayment total and I'm not done this year of a little over1 million1 5,655 so you are right there are people that are going to be apping to abuse the system but majority of the people who are here utilizing the funds that we have are good people who need that money um and there are the same select few or groups that I have recognized that are continuously uh making applications that uh they're not providing accurate information these dollars that you're talking about are they actually Levy dollars or actually are County Levy dollars or do they they where do they no no this is all governed through through the the grant programs yep office of Attorneys Office General and we didn't include these these numbers these are internal numbers um because the fiscal year so one of the biggest things you'll notice too the discrepancy of some of the numbers the state reports on a state fiscal year which is June uh or July 1st through June 30th and we do the calendar year so that's why you'll see some of that discrepancy but um to answer your question in a nutshell uh we are uh relle and and Alicia are very actively uh pursuing these um blatant um disregard to these programs who is the one that actually qualifies the person for the ma or for that assistance is that your office that qualifies them or is it somebody else that yep it's our financial workers that actually go through so that's where we get a lot of the fraud referrals from is when they're interviewing these clients um there something's not right um it's different from what they had said before it's their applications are different okay um so then they would bring up a referral for us to investigate whether it's blatant whether it's I made a mistake whether it's I didn't report this job this income that type of thing so yeah definitely a difference but we want to have those dollars go towards uh people that need them as opposed to um obviously uh intentional program violations just another question on that one if you don't mind did do you ever make referrals or for uh for legal prosecution of some blatant stealing of that's that's that's an option um and there are options for that and and um we haven't really done that too much in the past um and and if I can do a little side note when you look at this uh second second uh section in here kind of the middle it says ma recoveries um and then Below in 2023 it says DHS right off so this is medical assistance uh overpayments or recoveries for uh insurance purposes so in 2023 June 1st um DHS mandated the Forgiveness of all medical assistance related overpayments so we ended up writing off uh or forgiving um 100 145 healthc Care overpayments at about $877,000 that was mandated through the state so that's why you're seeing this big number go down to $70 so to answer your question one of the only ways now that we can pursue a medical assistance overpayment um is through uh a criminal or uh court case thank you yep what what's the criteria to get to that level it's it would be it's a good question and it's something that we've worked out or we've talked with attorney's office for um and it would be you know we look at a threshold of $5,000 $10,000 um but there's there's kind of a case by case how blatant is this situation what's the case um you know we don't want to we don't want to potentially give a felony to somebody that's um so the state isn't giving us Direction on it the state does not give us Direction on this we're just establishing our own threshold that is correct okay yep yep that is correct may I speak on too so part of the fraud prevention investigation program so when I receive a fraud referral so from wherever it comes from I will read through it and I'll I'll start collecting my evidence whatever that may be um and then at the end of that it goes to my wonderful partner Alicia who's been absolutely amazing I cannot stress the importance of I wouldn't be as successful if I didn't have her because I didn't come from the background of public assistant so she knows the rules like no one else um but she does she really does um but she will review those cases and determine on what the overpayments are and so then I make the ultimate decision and I have three decisions essentially one I can um send a warning out which typically that's what I'll end up doing whatever it may be um or I can move forward on doing an intentional program violation which I have increased those this year since um going forth and then that is based off of whatever evidence how blatant is this because I have to prove to um the state um that I have clear and convincing evidence that an intentional program violation has occurred if I cannot show clear and convincing evidence which is just shy of probable cause they will dismiss my case um and then the next step is then the criminal side of things which um you know again what I do there is once I determine that it warrants that I go and make um a request with the croan County Sheriff's Office through their investigative division as well as the prosecuting attorney and then I present my case to them which I have already have done that on a few of my cases so to also answer your question yes I have pushed um in some cases uh criminal um prosecution 100% And that that that intentional program violation she's referring to if we can prove that that that violation is intentional um the First Act if approved by the state uh is that they're um ineligible for that program for one year okay or depending on how many other uh disqualifications are based on program so you have mhib snap general assistance mind you medical assistance I cannot disqualify anyone from medical assistance No One Insurance mhm m so yes they can fraud medical insurance have an overpayment and still receive medical assistance yep we would cite an overpayment at this point it would have to go through the courts either civil or criminally our County attorney wants to pursue criminal um but then we have to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt so there has to be very blatant misuse of the program in order to take it to that step and the sheriff's office is wonderful to work with I presented one of my cases um to Chris brosie and they had a prosecuting attorney there Candice and they accepted my case there was a few things that since I'm not La I'm not a licensed police officer that they have a little bit more ability to do to obtain some of the information that someone was not complying with me to get and so they have been wonderful they kept me post on everything that their steps uh Brandon Henderson was the uh the investigative Deputy he was great to work with I couldn't say anything bad about about working with them so it was good it was good the sheriff's deputy's head is swelling back there just um any questions so far otherwise I can keep moving through some numbers um the the public assistance at Cash food Portion below uh we still able to uh receive um these overpayments we're still able to investigate um these specific programs as opposed to the medical assistance so do these dollars go back to the state then do they come back to well there there's there's saving yes so there's two divisions partial is savings that relle gets to claim that would be future benefits so we're allowed to claim one month of savings of whatever a person should have received um if there is a monetary change in the benefit amount from whatever date the issue occurred to where we got it corrected um that would create a claim or an overpayment if it's a client error we do collect a percentage if the client is still open the program will help pay itself back and we do get percentages from those payments indor savings back into the county um it varies depending on agency error client error some things like that cuz sometimes we do I do create claims for agency errors also um that's not part of our numbers today but that is one of the assignments I have is to correct anything we have may have done wrong too thank you this might be a question more for Deb where does that show up on our where we would see that on our yearly financials that we see for the county where would does it get all mixed recovery dollars yes does it all get mixed into a yep so this that would be it be the state recovery um dollars is which would that those dollars come back to our revenue and there is a line item in the budget well you'll see that's what I was just and that's I'll talk about that one the next this right now um so State Recovery uh is when uh an individual has been on medical assistance uh typical case is in a nursing home uh Assisted Living they pass away at that point um Carrie who's not here today she's our collections officer and she would work with that family to try to recover any dollars that are remaining in the estate so for instance um if if an individual was in assisted living for a year they received taxpayer funded uh Services worth $100,000 that is recoverable from the state she would then work with the the the um family to try to recover those funds more cases than not the family does not have those funds so that's that's the problems that we not problems but that's the when you see some of these numbers if you look at um if you flip your page over um you'll see the the estate recovery County incentive um and the bottom of this my apologies um yeah so we've received so far uh 2022 was a tremendous tremendous year for us and there's a lot of things that come into that so you'll see 2023 was 563,000 in estate recovery collections 2024 thus far is at 483,000 our stretch goal to try and hit is about 560,000 in a year and that's very very good um a lot of things play into these dollar amounts um how large claims are some people don't have any claims at all some people have very small claims some people have very large claims um does the deceased have any assets um you know what we run into a lot is homes um you know do we do we want to always kick people out of their homes you know what are the situations we want to be uh we want to keep family involved as much as possible in these cases um so again Family Planning as well for the estate recovery piece there's a lot of family planning that happens to uh make uh some of the Assets in the estate ineligible for recovery so it's very uh it's it's to say terms it's hit and miss on what assets a person has uh and that's why you're seeing kind of the up and down numbers so in 2024 uh we are about right on track for our for a stretch goal to try to recover and if you look at the very last piece um this is based on 2023 fiscal year this is what DHS has available currently and this just shows a a a ranking of counties and their state recovery dollars so henpen ramsy Anoka Dakota the all these or not NOA is not on there sorry um but so many of these big counties and their recoveries and it shows their population croan county is ranked number eight in counties for state recovery and I think that is absolutely tremendous um for the work that that's done and Carrie really does a wonderful job I wish she was here um to take the credit because it's it's a hard job it really is um you know we want to do as as much as we can for these families but we still have a responsibility that we need to uh try to recover these assets to go back into that bucket to help other families that bucket it goes back into is that a our bucket as far as the county it's a state bucket State bucket so you're a collection agency for the state in some ways yep yep correct well we're mandated by the state but we so if we recover $100,000 in an estate recovery our County incentive which is that which is that top we get to keep approximately 25% of that depending on the program so that's our incentive to keep going on that's what I that's what I was kind of getting at that's the portion we get so that's why you rank in the top 10 there where where Crowing County is ranked as number eight they're doing aggressive work to collect and to make sure that they're getting at those estate recoveries because there is a benefit to us to be able to to recover as much as we can yep and did you say initially your Grant funded say one more time did you say initially that you're Grant funded um for the fraud program for the fraud not for the collection not all of this is Levy so right so the fraud program like what Michelle and Alicia were talking about the fraud program is is funded through the state that is a state funded grant that is funded for that particular purpose right the recoveries if you will for the estate recoveries the part that's funded that's not on Levy in that regard is through those recovery incentive dollars that we're getting that's the that we get as a benefit for us to do the work here's the incentive for us to do the work we get to have those dollars for that purpose so it's some offset there something that yes so if the if the state chooses not to do that Grant anymore for the fraud what happens to this department I go away if well go away pretty brutally honest it depends if they if they don't fund it and still require that the work has to be done the work that they're doing is mandated that's a mandate through the state that they have to do fraud prevention and recoveries that is part of the work that has to get done now if the state chooses not to fund that work that doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to take away the requirement that that work has to be done you'll still be there doing it yeah right and how I understand that is the state has got a grant for that based off of federal guidance and requirements so there's a lot of moving part lot of moving Parts where the Federal requirements would have to change probably for the state to no longer fund and many there's many counties that don't have their their proprietary fraud investigator they share with other counties um their their investigators soota Prairie Alliance is that what they are that's what well and they also they also have licensed officers and non-licensed officers as well so like Mal like for example one of my partners in malac X County Andrew he has a whole District whole district and then like in chaos County they have a licensed Deputy that does the investigations there here we don't have a licensed officer you have me and so yeah yep and I and I think it's a very important thing because you're right we we may not necessarily be bringing money back per se to our to our County with with some of those things but my job is to maintain the Integrity of this program and will continue to maintain the Integrity of this program and it's savings the savings that that would be otherwise going out you're just not seeing them come back necessarily I pretty much out of questions it's one of those things as a new commissioner it's like you know it's like holy mael how long has this been going on you know so thank you thanks for coming in delicate job and it's and it's hats off to this team they wonderful okay any other questions from the board obviously do a wonderful job so the numbers back it up but there's a lot more behind the scenes that takes place yes and there seems to be some enthusiasm with you doing it too yes I'm very proud of my position 100% I am MH it's very important it holds uh the community accountable and not only that but it gives the taxpayers in our County rest assure that if you know whatever I receive as a broad invest you know referral I'm going to investigate it and hopefully it doesn't result in anything but if it does I'm going to be there to investigate it m Integrity of those funds y yep thank you very much thank you thank you next we have the uh long range Transportation plan morning Matt you guys want copies of they have that yep yep yeah all right good morning Mr chair and Commissioners uh thank you for having me today Matt cus Transportation planner for the highway department in the crowd is Tim Bray if any questions are over my head he'll he'll step in so um but good to to see you all um so the long range Transportation plan wanted to give you an update on that today um where we are a brief overview on kind of an outline and some chapters we've identified as key points throughout the plan um get some feedback on a survey that we've developed the questions specifically and then give a little overview of the project website that we've uh been developing with Nate rose with the gis and having a GIS layer within that as well and then a little over rview on the safe streets and roads for all grand um I think it was back in May I was before you all for a resolution to apply for that we have been awarded we've been working on a grant agreement and I'll give a little um little bit of a a way that how these plans will intertwine with each other because there's a lot of relation to one another although one is more in depth and the longrange plan is more of a level of a you know we got the comp plan and the long range plan will work with that and be the highways guiding do doent for hopefully the next 15 to 20 years so with the first slide you'll see um so what is a longrange transportation plan and it's for croing County it's something that they've never had so it's a uni unique opportunity um it's kind of aligned well with me coming on board it's last March or two marches ago 2023 it's flying by um so first for first for croman County it's a very um an initiative that I think will make Cowan County stand out from other counties when you look at where plans have been done outside of the Metro it's few and far in between um St Louis County um I think even Cass County has one but where the population is higher is where these exist and for Crowing County to get this it'll set up for the next 15 to 20 years and so when this first was talked about both Tim and I and Rob were kind of leaning towards a consultant um put them on board but we didn't really want the wishy-washy template stuff that some Consultants do so we've decided to do this in-house um make it our own put our own twists on it and that really comes with I think having a planner as myself being able to apply the the wording that Engineers don't always really like to use and they can get all the data and all that and I can make the map so it's it's been a really good um framework I think that we've developed and um a plan that we have going forward and it's also timing well with the comp plan just being adopted um this will drill down farther on that specifically for the highway and this will act as I said kind of The Guiding document hopefully up to 2020 or 2040 2045 in that area and be updated every 5 years or so or as things change um and a big thing with that just like the comp plan we're trying to forecast you know what's the system going to look like in 5 years 10 years 15 20 I mean in 20 years everything could be electric it could be I mean things change all the time this the evolution of the transportation field um has been a lot in the last if you look you know 20 years from back from now where we were to now and then you look forward another 20 it's there's a lot there so um and then the system as a whole we're looking at the entire entirety of how Transportation Works within the county not just the roads and the cars on them um we want to look at um Transit the bike pad infrastructure Freight rail air airports all of that will be in this um next slide and so here is where I'd be seeking any feedback that you all would have these are kind of the key elements or chapters that we've identified to date um this is subject to subject to change I know Tim and I talked this morning we might already have some might already have some additions to this but um we've been meeting for the past several months we dwindled it down to this we've been studying past plans that were done by other counties mainly in the Metro seeing what chapters they had the key elements obviously we're we're croing County we're a little different we've Twisted things our own way this isn't a copy of any other counties um we wanted to get at least a base point of where others um started their framework and we took it from there and made our own bones but if you had any questions on any of the nine listed here I'd be happy to answer or I can give clarification if you're I know they're just kind of bullet points but I could read through them all and kill 15 minutes minutes but I don't think you want that nice try and I'm I'm I'm sure when we have our T try Matt nice try when we have our Tac meeting as well I can if questions come up between now and then I can answer some there as well so okay uh here's a timeline this is also subject to change the main thing I think that Tim and I wanted to Showcase here was by basically December 31st of 202 we want this long range Transportation plan to be completed so it's been a little hard to get the the ball rolling at this point with some with that ss4a Grant played a role in that trying to figure out how these complemented each other and then making the decision we're going to do this longrange plan in-house and then um figuring out okay now what do we do like how do we get the framework for that so we're off and running now we're still real quick question mat of of the8 Seven Counties you take the Metros out of there how many counties actually have one of you there in their County doing Transportation Planning cuz that's what pretty much the reason you're here right yeah you know and something I know Tim had talked about even before having you and having you get in this place so so this is a the first time we've ever done this plan right it isn't like a redo of a plan correct so there is a little time that takes to kind of get it ramped up so correct yeah it's been looking at others and obviously the Metro it's their plans are I mean 500 to 1,000 pages and it's just mindboggling to comprehend it where our system it's smaller but it's still there's a lot of data the the data that's there that's the big thing that needs to be collected um and to that point street light data is something that we've signed up for and it's I'll probably show you guys at the TAC meeting more but it's something that you can just plug and play and get things in a report in 5 minutes um it's a really cool tool that we'll be utilizing for both this and the ss4a so thank you Matt yes Matt I've got a question so I've talked to our great County engineer about you know I've got a lot of County dirt roads down in or gravel roads down in my district and you know I've heard from some of my constituents and it's kind of been a something that I'd like to pursue is this something is this plan some where you look at those County dirt roads like County Road 139 which we invested like 800,000 to fix it up is this where the where where you initially put that in there as as a potential down the road like four five 10 years or is this is this is that what this would be all about yeah thanks commissioner Corin uh specifically the probably the roads won't be named in the year that that would happen but there's a chapter the future Transportation needs where we look at gravel vers pinus um um and how we'll probably come up with some sort of formula or some sort of um there'll at least be a chapter on it not sure exactly what that's going to look like but it'll lay the Baseline of you know when we come to a decision on if something should be um changed from gravel to pinus this document will help us make that decision um if that answers your question yes it does okay I just want to put that on our radar you know or at least have it in the plan that it's something that's why I kind of wanted to have you know every quarter have a meeting I just want to have the Commissioners that are elected be able to have more input you know before you know we we'd have one 4-Hour meeting a year and you guys would roll out the the plan and and throughout the year I don't know I just didn't feel like I had a whole lot of input into it that said NOP totally understandable and thanks for that comment and I know the ss4a that Safe Streets and roads for all that get more in depth on Project Specific and then it'll rank there'll be a tearing system and it'll be very in depth on you know that'll give a more direct answer on maybe when a a road would go from gravel to pinus uh you can go to the next slide and so then I just wanted to give a brief snapshot this is a project website that I've been working on with Nate Rose our GIS coordinator um this will be where the public can always utilize this link um it'll show our um project updates as we go through the process so everybody can stay involved there's a brief right now there's just an overview some of the trends and goals that we're utilizing that intertwined with the comp plan and then um on the next slide gets into some of the public engagement that we're that we want to utilize and this will serve both for the long range trans Transportation plan and the ss4a grant so if you remember from the comp plan when bolt and M had their input ID that they use we've working with Nate he's been able to make something in house for us to utilize rather than contract out and spend x amount of dollars this was free done by him and it does the exact same thing where if you have a concern at an intersection or anywhere along the County highway system you can drop a pin make a comment or drop a pen there's some generic ones on the left if you know something's working well or something's not working think of that nature but we just want to make sure the com or the the public has as much um ways that they can interact as possible and this will be anonymous so that kind of helps people open the door and be sometimes to brutally honest which is which is a good thing in this this aspect I I think um Matt are those live on the website now no no so an ETA of when that's going to be so Nate so this was um done by his intern with Nate and actually had a phone call with Nate yesterday the survey he's ready to put live but this there's something with ezri where he has to make a claim where it's it's over my head on the gis Spectrum but he's working on it and I told him kind of hopefully after the TAC meeting I think we want to have everything solidified survey wise and this mapping software done so after that tack meeting I told him that deadline and he was okay with that uh next slide please I won't read through all these as well well but if you did have a chance to look beforehand these were some of the survey questions that we came up with I believe there's a total of 13 and if you do look at them or if you had looked at them they are a little different than I think your typical survey and that was something both Tim and I and Rob wanted to make sure that we weren't putting out a survey that was um for example you know do you like roundabouts yes or no what does that that when you look at it how what decision does that help you make like oh I guess they like them we'll keep putting them in but where where do they want them so if you look at you know question went ahead a little bit but there's a question you know what intersection needs safety improvements that kind of goes it gives you a specific location and what those um what the community members are seeing out there that we might not see you know a lot of the data is crash related and sometimes there's a lot of close calls but maybe a lot of not a lot of data to back that so to be able to get feedback from them specifically and each one of these questions is a text box that they're asked to basically type in an answer I think there's only two questions where we have them question seven we ask them to select um or prioritize a couple projects and question nine um I'm sorry question eight they we want them to rank some safety measures that we've deployed so we can kind of get a feel for you know what they like and don't like so this is on the website already the survey the survey is ready to go the website Nate's having some ezri issues which runs the arcgis but the the survey is live can be live when we're ready to shoot it out okay it hasn't it's not out there yet not yet no we we'll we'll make a nice uh um blast out and promoted the best we can once that happens and I think hopefully we can get good results I think that 371 study that Bolton and M's doing they got a couple so um 199 of those were mine though well make good comments on 48 for us I get the trail coming for you thank you um we can yeah if if there's any questions on any of the specific survey questions I'd be able I'd be happy to answer those like you like we said we kind of wanted to I know the first uh as a planner the first survey I brought to Tim's office he kind of wanted to rip it up in a way it was the it was the fluffy planner language and so we kind of worked together in a nice engineer planner this is a good yeah yeah a good relationship there yeah a Visionary and somebody who wants to be detailed yeah it took us a couple rewrites I think even the day before I sent this in we we put in two new questions so it's been it's been fun I think it touches all the bases that I think so too and there are a couple in there as well that serve in a way for the ss4 um there's an equity piece that ss4a Grant requires and we put those in here to kind of check that box as well so we're trying to mesh these together the best we can so we're not having to do two things or redo things I should say in the future and if there's no questions on the survey itself I can give an update on the The Safe Streets and roads for all Grant chair please do so we applied in May um we got a notice of funding that we were going to be awarded in September and so that was the total the total amount Federal is $200,000 and with that there's a $50,000 match uh but with that match and I think I teed this up when I presented for the resolution in May there's a through mot there's an ija State match program iig ja acronym for oh good question I didn't write that one down um I don't remember either look at that I got them both scrambling yeah I that's a good one strcture investment and jobs act yes that was than I was just going to say that yeah there's too many acronyms to keep uh keep track of nowadays but um yeah so that's through minda and they had it was over $200 million set aside through the legislature to match programs that re utilizing iig funds and so there's still I want to say there's $ 60 to $70 million left over we've applied for that we should know within hopefully 5 to 6 weeks um if we get that or not which the ss4a qualifies it's if there's money money will be there I assume money will be there so once that comes up I will bring that to you guys to officially apply or accept the funds um but back to the ss4 a like the long range plan we were initially when we applied we checked the Box on the grant that we would utilize a consultant and then after I think the kickoff meeting Tim and I I guess Tim mainly had the idea of let's do this in house too it's um seemed like a kind of a wow factor for me but he laid it out nicely where we have the staff the way the con this next construction year is laid out at times well with where we can utilize engineering staff CU there's a lot of data that needs to be collected and a safety analysis and this is going to lay out the projects on if you've ever seen the county road safety plan of you know a star system of um if they have you know vulnerabilities if there's curvature that's doesn't align with the safety standards or things of that nature they get in these ranking systems and um we have the engineering staff to do that hopefully start that this winter actually um but that will so that's through the federal that's a Federal Grant and so we're doing a grant agreement right now and hopefully within our point of contact says two to three months is when they turn that around so it'll be it'll be a bit before I bring that back to you and we can officially start charging hours to that which is unfortunate but um to be able to do it inhouse I think is a is is another huge bonus for us so um and I'd be happy to answer any questions about that as well Mr chair I don't have any questions but I just want to note that Matt has written several Grant applications for us been very successful writes excellent grants and I just want to acknowledge my appreciation for what you've done with the grant process for the highway department so appreciate it thank you thank you commissioner barrows any other questions from the board Paul any questions from you no Mr chair if I have a question I'll let you know okay thank you sir I appreciate that I think that's it all right thank you very much thank you m now we have the Ross Lake number nine eement good morning good morning thank you for your time today yes we have a easement request um from Megan Tashi in Ross Lake Township section 9 um so the Megan approached us because she is selling her property and the uh future owner and his title company and mortgage people um need a legal access to get to the property and so um the P tax P we're talking about here is 89 4505 um this is in Ros Lake Township right off the lens Road and uh counter Road 106 so the lens Road for us is one of our recorded County Forest roads it's a road that we manage and maintain it's a prescriptive easement Road and so if you can go to the next map please yeah so this is a little zoomed in area here um the easement they're requesting is uh 61 ft long and 33 ft wide uh worked with Gary and the uh the assessors and we determined a value of about $2,400 so we're here today um to present this to you guys and see if there's preliminary support if the taches should move forward with completing a survey and then filling out our easement document um we don't see any adverse impacts to um our forest management activities there's an existing driveway um that you can see in the map um that they're using today they just need something uh recorded for the sale of the property and if you look on the map um it appears that there's a wet spot next to that but that's just a shadow of a tree so I wanted to point that out um this is good high ground uh can you back it up go back one one slide if you don't mind for that whole it shows the whole parcel now it chose private property red shaded is that it's the tashy property is just that property they don't own the they don't own the rest of that's all privately owned by other people correct Miss tashy just owns um those two 40s that are line in white okay Y and then the is access for all that other private property then there must be access somewhere else on the um the other private property owners well so it's it's um yeah they they may have access off the lens Road or um you know they may not need the legal access like the Tashi do to uh you know to sell the property we you know the County Board has a policy that any you know Forest Road or Trail is open um as long as it's not posted closed to a certain use so you know historically the tachis have been able to cross this little 61 ft piece of tax offer Land by our policy um but that policy does not suffice for who's ever buying it or whoever the mortgage company the theer the seller has yeah okay that 40 that's right below the Tashi then that's that's our land there that's kind of a out of the it's it's you know kind of in the middle of private land that's something we've we've worked at over the years trying to trying to put those Parcels you know get rid of those parcels and put other Parcels you know in place correct yep yep your land Asset Management program our policy of divesting of those types of parcels that are isolated in nature and and trying to um get larger blocks of tax offered land over the years we've worked with the tachis a lot um they provided us Timber access you know free of charge for a long time okay um and so lately I think uh the property was split up and now it's being divested but um but yeah it that that is a candidate for us that that parcel is pretty much all low ground so um okay value to maybe nobody really wants it then maybe a hunter hard hard to say um but it's it's remote country okay to say the least I don't really have any more questions everything if everything sounds right I'll I'll work with the tachis to put that on a consent agenda so so you'll have the authorization on the consent agenda for the next County board meeting uh probably not the next they have to go complete a survey and then they they have some easement language work to do and it'll be need to reviewed by the County Attorney so um it might everything has been completed and it's ready to go you're okay with it being on a consent agenda for whenever it is complete it it could be a month or two though just in all fairness they have to hire their own surveyor um and they have some leg work to do before we come back so Tom has your authority to move forward with getting all the access information that's needed for the owner to do for the tashes to do the work that needs to get done and it'll come back before you when it's ready for final approval yes that makes I see a lot of head nods y thank you have a good day I see we have uh land use ordinance updates with Chris Pence is he I just asked if he's here or is is he missing it or Gary is on here if you want to talk to yeah Gary yeah uh Chris is on his way up I believe okay I can start if he's not in there we got three he's got three minutes you know so we're we're in pretty good shape here give him one give him one minute he should be there as long as we're waiting I guess I have a question is Tom still there or no I I guess so gu just a question I I I think obviously I know the answer to this that you know if we're granting pardon me Rosemary was just saying something oh can you hear me yeah so so just a question on this easement I I don't I'm always skeptical about easements but Gary apparently if if you guys are I mean you must do a lot of diligent work to make sure that you're not once you put this e easement on there permanently and in you know 10 years down the road we decide to sell that piece of property kind of devalues it in a way but I I'm gu guessing that that you guys really do a lot of work whether or not you feel like there should be an easement On Any Given property correct that is correct uh in this case since it really was only 60 ft long and uh kind of some of it you could say is a little bit of maybe road ditch we we feel that it's not impacting our current forestry Management in that on that parcel doesn't mean that a future owner would maybe want that easement but um we have went with historical practice that they've been using that little driveway access and uh always come for your consideration and then we do um come up with a value that we believe are made whole if we are putting a permanent forever easement on the property okay um so it's kind of a combination but yeah we do a lot of diligence so if we we had a request not all of them come to you because we do uh vet and trying to talk with some owners that say um we're we're not in support of this they can always come and talk to the board but there are sometimes easements where we're like this doesn't make any sense for the county to Grant an easement in certain situations too oh good so you're weeding out some of this stuff okay perfect that's all I wanted to know and they are paying for that easement right so that you know when you really think about it it's 33 ft wide and 61 ft long 2400 bucks you know if if you know permanent easement that's a fair amount of money for that little chunk of property correct yeah okay we have Chris is there anything else uh Chris is here for your update uh just want to give the board a quick update on where we're at with the land use ordinance and the next steps with that uh and so uh just to uh we had it out it's in the process of out for public comment uh we've only received one comment on the ordinance since it came from DNR um if you remember when I was here uh chatting about it last month uh there was a provision that we were talking about eliminating the ordinance that talked about the one um per parcel for for a dwelling unit and um so we went to the Planning Commission at the meeting last month as well and had a work session with them and they wer in supportive of that provision they think that we should still be one you know one um one dwelling per parcel and the DNR also said that um going away from one propos would would not be in um in line with the sh rules from the state perspective and so um from both those terms so basically we remove that provision from the ordinance being changed so we'll just leave our intent at this point depending you know obviously board approval um to leave that in there um couple other things that the Planning Commission brought up they thought was important one Chris before you move on I guess I didn't understand that you know we've always uh let people you know build a little guest cabin or I don't know what you call it that is that what you're talking about is eliminating no no commissioner coring what we're referring to is that we have some situations where where folks have large parcels and uh and we have some folks that come in that sometimes uh they would they would like to do instead of partialing it off and creating individual lots for those different dwellings um they want to just get a permit let's say that if they were um for easy numbers let's say there's zoned rural residential 5 and they had 20 acres let's say um we have some folks that come in that say we just want to build build four houses out here based on our density but we don't want to create new individual lots and um and so that had been something that had happened in the past then the ordinance was updated um to say no we only want to have one dwelling per parcel uh and so that was the question was from a policy perspec of what is the goal of and intent of the board that doesn't have the impact on say a guest cabin you know we call it a guest Cottage in the ordinance or the guest quarters which would be living space over top of a garage so it doesn't have any impact on that it's just a matter of of uh how many dwellings you know would we allow on a piece of property based on the density if they were to actually subdivide the property in individual Lots so that's what the question is so what we want to do is we want to make sure somebody has an individual lot of record correct serving okay well what that's kind of a no-brainer isn't it uh for some folks for most situations yes we just have C we have some situations where folks aren't interested in um in subdividing their property and creating that individual lot of record but they'd still want to build say four houses because maybe they want to build a house for um for a child or or you know a family member of some sorts and so they don't want to subdivide the property but they still want to have uh more houses on the property then would be one per parcel so that's the that's the situation where we run into those once in a while we and we have those around the County right now um we have some special ones where we have larger tracks where it's family-owned and there's numerous you know cabins is what it would be for those folks on those properties but that's the the intent behind is to saying if you want to have a dwelling it needs to have its own individual lot of record um to be able to get a permit to build that dwelling I think that makes total sense I don't know how you can even how you could even if you're going to go get a loan at the bank I don't know how you could get a loan without owning that individual lot well it was situations where the folks that own the property didn't always have to get a mortgage they they had the cash you know to be able to build on their own and so um it's it's it wasn't common it didn't happen a lot but there were just certain situations where that's what people what the desire was and um you know I think after hearing from the board and from the planning Comm it seems to make sense like you mentioned to have you know one dwelling per per lot of Records so we'll continue with that yeah it seemed to me that I mean when that was brought up it it makes sense you know like like with the 40 acres I have I could build a house here and there okay but I'm not going to be there forever and those kids won't be there forever and then all of a sudden it'll be coming up and saying well it's always been that way well maybe we need to make sure we do it so it will be that way in 50 years where it will work yeah no I think it makes sense absolutely does it's better running than those other ones so yep uh the other the other item that the Planning Commission um uh wanted to amended was if you remember we had the provision the ordinance talked about setback averaging so if you have two dwellings on each side of the property you can take the setback average and then that would be where you would be able to build and and the Planning Commission just wanted to make sure that um that would only apply if you didn't have a building envelope so if you do have an envelope and you can meet setbacks you should and so we put language in there to make sure that if you do have a spot to build at meet setbacks um you have to do that before you can consider doing the averaging so um just to be clear on that one and um so I think that was important to clarify that and then the last one uh comment before you go on I do for clarification yes so we give out variances quite often and so I add an addition onto my house and I get my variance and then the lot next door wants to build is the average based on my original footprint or on the new fo footprint it be on the my variant y it' be on the new footprint so aren't we creating a situation where they don't have to ask for a variance to encroach on that Shoreline no I don't think so um this this what what you I think there's a lot of Mis misconceptions over variances and and what and what gets approved um very rarely do you ever see a variant where say they've got a setback today where they're 53 ft away from the lake very rarely do you see somebody getting a variance to be 51 to go forward typically they can go um sideways and to the rear but not any closer to the lake so we don't there's not we don't see a lot of those um those types of variances being approved um I can't really remember too many that we have where the people can actually go closer to the lake than what's currently already on the property so um I I think from a perspective of of this this this is going to be the situation where you know you look along the shoreline and you've got houses at 60 ft 60 ft 60 ft 60 ft you know very common where at at and um and to allow this provision for that for that setback averaging is going to reduce the the burden on the on that land owner to be able to improve their property um and it's it's as I was doing some more research um we're not the only County that has that by a long shot most counties do you know Aken county has it um I know out like Douglas County a lot of counties have lots of lakes like we do and it just it takes some of the more situations where um it's it's a pretty simple variance simple request what they're asking for still putting in Provisions for storm Waters trolland buffers erosion control storm water management all those Provisions that would still be there it just reduces that regulatory burden on folks to go through that process with ones that um are fairly cut and dried when looking at it from the the neighborhood situation that's out there I just want them to be cautious John when you give out variances because even though we might not have many it could start a trend and I just get nervous about that slippery slope approach well and I think it's it's important to know too that you know I think there's another misconception of everybody gets a variance well they don't and so um as you go through the development review team process most we vet every single application before they even come to the Planning Commission Board of adjustment for consideration um a lot of uh you know a lot of situations where um people are told that's not going to get approved you need to come up with a different plan and they come up with a plan that that works based on staff recommendation based on you know what we've seen working with the Planning Commission Board of adjustment on previous type of applications and so um people don't get everything they ask for um I just give you an example we had last month we're having an application this month where the the folks came in and they wanted to get an get a variance because they wanted to build in a uh a new cabin and it's a it's a really weird situation because now the Wetland that goes behind it is now considered part of the lake after work with DNR on that and so now instead of having theyve kind almost got like this peninsula setup but they wanted to have three water oriented accessory structures and we said no that's not going to get approved and so we worked that with the land own so before they even get now the the application will be before you know John and and the members on Thursday they're asking for one and it meets the ORD reord so they don't need a variance for that and so those are the things that we get vetted out ahead of time because we let the applicant know that they can apply for it but the odds of them getting approved or something like that are not real strong and so helping them to we help them to really try to put together the best application that they can that would get approved um and following you know to the ordinance as tightly as we can and putting on you know we think conditions to mitigate any sort of impacts with you know um storm water management Shoreland buffers erosion control all those sorts of things that I think at the end of they really matter for the water quality of prowing County one of the things you mentioned in the beginning when we were talking about this line of sight you said it still has to be in the building envelope does that mean you'll still go you stay within that 75 ft setback or whatever that setback is or when you say you go to line of sight you go encroach in that so if if they have the ability to meet the setbacks they have to meet the setbacks okay okay it's it's only if they that very hard or very cumbersome for them to be able to do that correct correct so I interrupted you and you had you were going to go on and say something else no I think I I think that pretty much oh the the other piece was that um just when we're we we have a current definition of Marina in the ordinance uh but it it it discussed what ancill services were and the DNR just gave us some feedback and said he might want to list what those ANC Services might be which would be parking providing gas you know those sorts of things so that you can better have a definition of what that is so that was um included as well as part of the definitions so kind of a modest Amendment but just more for clarification on what a marina is so uh the plan is that this will go to the Planning Commission and board of adjustment Thursday night this week for the public hearing um and then pending their review and the public feedback and all the input we get they'll make a recommendation to the County Board and then um this should come to the board I'll work with Debbie if we want to go which meeting in December we would would want to hit so but it'll definitely in December and I just the important thing to remember is that the you know the important part of the ordinance is getting the Cannabis um Article 15 approved so that we have rules and regulations in place when it comes time for that comes janary 1 when that can be um an option for folks to run businesses in the county we want to make sure we have our controls in place so that we have um all that organized and ready to go so Mr chair I do have some additional questions and so do I go first go first sir I sent you a list of questions last night or yesterday afternoon for today's meeting I did didn't get the email I'm sorry so so here's my okay question so under uh 172 A3 it says the use this is an interim use article the use will be required to receive approval of a new interim use permit upon change of ownership unless at least one person or entity is the same full or part partial owner as the previous owner and I believe the intent of the interim use permit is about a time sensitive period which includes the ownership if we start including Partnerships and llc's and that why aren't they applying for a cup because in effect according to this that's what they would have because if I have a a partner and I pass away or get bought out the iup can continues correct they bring on a new person they get bought out or pass it now moves on to that person so you're into perpetuity here well so yeah so I think it's important remember when you when an interim use permit is is approved is tied to a certain ownership so let's say that owners A and B apply for the conditional use permit and owner B now is no longer part of the process and then owner a decides that they want to sell to owner C then that new owner is going to have to come in even though they've how they've organized their ownership it still it still matters what name is on the actual inter that's who that permit is for it's not for subsequent owners coming on so the intent behind that is to say if there's owner A and B and owner B decides to leave owner a stays on they can still continue that inter permit but if there's new ownership added on to that then they'd have to come in and apply to renew that inter to get a new inters permit so but the owner is an LLC so an LLC is an individual or I mean it's a corporate limited partner Corporation so so whoever is the owner of that is that for us yeah for us when we look in the ordinance it does talk about those that is considered to be a person that would be able you know we have llc's that apply for permits now that LLC could go on forever and have many different people that were the principles of that LSC over time yeah that is a challenging that is a challenging part that's the challenge I think he's talking about is the fact that it isn't an interm ordinance it's an it's an ordinance to an LLC and as long as that LLC is a viable LLC doesn't matter who actually the name we don't get behind the scenes of who you know who is the principles and those llc's and that so yeah yeah so that's something that that'll be coming up is that the one we're working on is that for the interm correct right we're yeah the new ordinance that we have proposed the draft introduces inuse permits as an option then inuse permits for the for the Cannabis uses yeah yeah I'd like to see some more thought in that okay maybe we some clarification or something just my opinion and then I'm going to move on to number 10 I got to get there so if you'll bear with me a minute that that Florida is that Florida calling I think it was Jim in the back row so this is under 10.2 I okay and here's so I'm going to kind of combine the last these last two questions I have so 10.2 I and 10.2 l so the first one talks about commercial and we're going away from two levels of commercial to one oh sure yep so we had a CI C1 and a C2 correct we're now going to just commercial correct yep y I think there's some distinct differences between those two levels of development okay and when we go to just one we're just opening up the doors for any commercial development anywhere moving on to the industrial one which is the next one we're doing the same thing we're getting rid of light and heavy industrial and only going with industrial correct and again there's a significant difference potentially between light and heavy and I think that we're not um watching the the hen house so to speak close enough because there could be a cement factory built next door to potentially a residential area depending on you know where the placement of it is but or in the city limits and I think that we've seen some of that and we want to kind of make sure that they are placed in the appropriate setting for whatever their use is so I think by collapsing it to one we're just opening the floodgates on either one whether it's commercial or industrial well we could go through the land use tables and I could show you the differences between what what by what the difference would be between the two if that would help just showed the current uses that we have what would be the difference between commercial one and Commercial two what were the you know what were the differences between the two I can come in tomorrow afternoon okay sure and we'll just sit down and go through that yeah I'd be happy to show you that that's my concern is that I want to just open up the doors so they can say well we can build a you know some kind of big Factory right on 371 next to North Long Lake or something yeah I don't that I don't I don't think that would the way that organized I don't think that would really potentially would be an option but we could definitely um going back to commercial so Rosemary and I had an issue a few years ago with a development on 118 for those storage buildings correct and so we I think the board at that time decided that we wanted those kind of commercial developments on our corridors of Commerce not on those back County Roads and I think this change in policy is changing what we had set in place probably four years ago something like that maybe some five years ago and I I think that we need to have further discussion on that sure um and you mentioned Township roads in there and we don't have really any Authority on Township roads do we as far as Township Roes commercial development absolutely we do sure sure we do because we have all the we have all we have so you have to remember we have all the you you have the townships but we have all the we have all the Zoning for all the townships except for you know croing Township in Irondale and so yeah we still have absolutely still have that so we have uhhuh yeah the county the county Bard is one who who decides where the zoning is in the different uh in the different townships and that so and to be clear you weren't here at the time you know right so and just to just to be clear when we're talking about those um those commercial storage buildings I think we're talking like on 18 the only thing that's changed since I've been here is that those were permitted use privious previously now conditional use permit so we haven't changed the land use districts upon which they are allowed those you know allowed to be built in so that hasn't changed since you know since I've been back it'll be two years in January so we can look at that and decide if we want to change where we put you know these commercial storage buildings and that but right now the land use District that was approved four years ago hasn't changed since I've been here so that hasn't it's only it's only gone from a permanent use to a conditional use that's the only change in the ordinance we'll go through that a little more tomorrow afternoon okay okay sounds great and a great tea up for a call I had yesterday from somebody up in ideal Township saying when is the county going to quit letting people build all these great big storage buildings right down these Township roads and I said I don't know because we don't I mean it is a road and they metal storage buildings and I don't think we have really anything in there if you want to build and you end the property you can build correct they're their conditional use permits only conditional use I mean these are these are buildings people are building for their toys we've decided what districts we want them to be located in and where you can have these buildings set I mean that's those you know we have the the the the zoning districts for that has been set um so I mean we we will continue to build in those districts until it's been decided that we want to change that and you know change the zoning and where we want to allow these to be to be built so that'll be whatever direction that you guys want to provide will'll make the changes to the ordinance and whatever wherever you want these to be located just let uh just let us know the only other thing I had was the um um you talked about marinas and and you know there's a fair amount of marinas on some of the Lakes Mar Mar is considered a commercial property correct correct if that if that Marina decided not to bring a marina anymore and decided to build a bunch of housing in there or a bunch of uh what would they call conservation mhm housing in there they would have the full right to be able to do that correct they would they would be limited to their number of docking would not be what a full P Marine would be they would be limited to their tier one density that they would be allowed to build there yeah okay that was just a question I had yep okay that's all I had anything else no other questions okay thank you it'll be um kind of midafternoon tomorrow sounds great thank you thank you anything else did you have anything anybody else Paul is he there if not I think we are adjourned correct