see Kobe you ready all right we're going to call this meeting to order today is January 25th 2024 it is 4:00 and we're going to go ahead and get the meeting started I will uh turn it over to uh city manager Mr Mike Barker thank you Council um Council we had um there's been a lot of um a lot of planning a lot of things that's um went on at the airport concerning their report over the last few years really um this year there's been a lot there's been some changes there's been changes in what we wanted to do with the Triumph Grant um there's been changes and some things that we found out since um the airport expansion has really started being planned on so several weeks ago might have been a month ago now we had a um a meeting in here um Council beer bomes here in that meeting and uh we had people that was involved with the airport with the expans project we had Engineers here we um we talked about pretty much where we were at we had information new information from FAA um we had information on the design um some we've had some meetings about the Triumph Grant and what we wanted to see at the airport and there's some things that um that we want to go over with you because there's some we need to make sure that we have the right direction to go in and what is the council's desire on on some of the changes that we probably need to make um so uh Mr Townson has put together a PowerPoint and has the information the pretty much the ones of you that were in the last meeting it would be kind of a duplication of that uh what we went over plus some things have been added some some new information has come to light so uh we want to go over everything and then probably at at different segments we'll we ask you what is your desire and which direction do you want to go in decisions would you like to make uh for us to do so with that I will turn it over to Kobe and you can start the presentation all right Mr Kobe oh so we can go through this like Mr Barker said we can either just go all the way through it and then have questions at the end or section if you just flag me we who state your name for the record Kobe Townson um I did a PowerPoint that's what you have printed out some reason didn't save so I have a scan copy so I apologize to the public in addition we have barge and Liberty Partners here so they can also answer questions go beyond my scope start out first page this is the approved Airport layout plan that the council approved years ago this is what we've been working off of this will continue to work off of and then the next three slides are the funding and projects that Liberty Partners has kept track of for a while now and so the first slide is projects that have funding and we are working toward and they have sub they may not have all of it but they have substantial amount so the terminal and then the runway expansion in 927 the next slide is partially funded projects so taxi way Access Road hangers 18 19 to 20 those are on the Southeast quadrant of the airp report that we will discuss that further we have a million dollar appropriation and then Liberty Partners is in the process of submitting 1.8 million job growth Grant fund application and then this year after speaking with barge we realize that the airport has entitlement dollars from the FAA um and so one portion of that is 150,000 we get every year it rolls up to 600,000 once you hit 600,000 if you don't use it you will not continue to accumulate it'll just you'll lose it uh the second portion of money is um some legislation from a few years back that rolls up um and so we're at 450,000 now and then the last slide there is projects that have been identified talked about for a long time they have no funding at this time but they're still on there they're part of the Airport layout plan so we wanted to identify those probably the biggest source of discretionary funding the airport has is going to have is our FD work dollar plan or plan dollars so everyone remembers we transferred the 2.5 million to the pavement of Runway 927 that came from 1836 those have some stuff we will discuss also and then for the upcoming years we did transfer 1 million this year for the terminal and then you'll see for the next three years we're entitled to 1.5 million 900,000 and $300,000 so we'll start with the the runway um we we began FAA continuously told us there were some obstructions that need to be addressed in our Runway project um so we we asked these questions very simple questions they come back with a couple different things the first are trees on the end of r way 27 which is on the east side you see that um the yellow highlighted letters or numbers those are trees that we wish to address to mitigate and get rid of um we believe the city can do we hope we hope we can have funding for that um so on the nine end that would do that on the 20 on the nine end on the west side there are trees also that they discuss but then it goes into detail of some more stru that um we were not aware of at the time so if you see the mouse cursor on your right photo you'll see Jee Harley Road Falls within that Red Zone that's called the object free zone for the runway and then just the north of is our fence those have to be moved those cannot stay there um those are the obstructions the fa keeps referring to and so we've been trying to address those with barge but we've come to a conclusion on the obstructions for the trees on the 27 end we hope to use FAA dollars AIP and AIG funds to survey those trees find out which ones are still standing if they are we hope to either the city to remove them or to hire a contractor to remove them but to use FAA dollars for that so that'd be the first task next we have the road and the fence we believe it will be best suited if those two things were moved at the same time the runway is extended there's no need in doing two different projects to get the same outcome we don't want to do that we want to put them together and so the way to do that is to provide a modification of Standards to FAA they want to see in writing that um that our road is fine that it's not going to cause a safety hazard or something like that in the meantime so we would need to get granted that modification standard and then in addition to that we will have to supply an alternative analysis the alternative analysis is supposed to address safety concerns they want to know when you get speed limits how are we going to reduce traffic how are we going to keep someone from going to the fence those type of things um so they feel comfortable the road staying in the meantime that's going to take um a little bit of time effort from our Engineers on doing that but it's necessary if we want to move forward with the runway expansion the next page you'll see this is the original scope this was provided to us from Garver um I will this was what we provided also to FD we have not heard back from FD yet for a number of reasons I believe but you will see this is our original scope um and the reason for this being here is you're going to compare here in a minute to our Triumph ask and how how they intermingle and what we would like to you know try to marry them together though in the original scope the orange section that's the hump in the runway that needs to be mitigated needs to be flattened out the blue section is the extension itself the green section is the ALS the you know the additional taxi way that has to accompany it you'll see the purple lines those are the relocations of Jee Hurley you can see they go past scroll Haven Road you would get rid of that section of scroll Haven and then you'll see the relocation around the souths side and the west of Jee herley Park full intentions of getting rid of gley Park so we need to go around it rather than through it and in addition to Green you see around the runway the little dots that is the attempt to update our lighting from our what we have now to a more efficient LED lighting try to reduce some of the lighning strikes we have out there and the issues we're having so I put this timeline together for everyone to kind of understand and see what we're dealing with I was unaware of what we deal went fully until we started asking questions so you see in 2024 and a couple these things we will explain next but there's a environmental assessment needs to be completed along with that it's going to be some justification documentation for the funding we expect those to take roughly a year the environmental assessment it could take longer it could take up to 18 months according to the FAA we hope it's set a year best so you're looking at 2025 beginning of 2025 before we begin the design again best case scenario we're a one-year design be explain why that environmental assessment wasn't done okay so when bars came on or we were going through the process of uh find the doing the runway and getting it to the FAA for approval here a couple months back um there was a lack of an environmental assessment I was una aware of that no no one here was aware that we had not completed that according to the FAA it was not completed we have one it's halfway done it began and stopped to them they their understanding is that it was stopped in 2018 because we were so far out from Jee Hurley Park sunsetting that if you finished it in 2018 the data wouldn't be relevant information wouldn't be any good come 2024 2025 so they stopped so and speaking of FAA we can no longer use what we do have we're going to have to redo it all and and so to redo it all you're looking between a year to 18 months and this is solely for the runway extension again we were unaware of this but we cannot do it simultaneously with the design portion you have to do the EA before you can do the design so once we get done with that we'll begin designning 25 again a year so that the beginning of 2026 construction another generous timeline of a year in 2027 was when we would be completed estimated so for the environmental assessment bars our continuing Services Engineers they provided to us an estimate which you have in front of you this estimate is just shot just over 129,000 has been provided to and approved by FAA and so as we get we get to the end of this we will discuss proving that um because it is essential to beginning the project without it we will not go nowhere on the runway the next the next issue we have is you will remember here a few months ago we had to move we had to do it again the resolution of the 2.5 million and the 650,000 from the dirt Runway had to move it again because of the timeline in which it was done we fell past o August 1st August 1 a new rule was implemented by the fdot which required a couple things number one your project had to be justified by the FAA if it was justified by the FAA then the fdot automatically accepted it funds removed if it is not justified by the FAA you go through a whole another process for fdot justification which inquire which is going to require a lot of time and a lot of data um to pull get pull that together so that's will be that if we move forward this that's going to be something that's going to have to be done it will require a task order it will be substantial most likely um that's not to say that if you do not get justification from FAA or fdot it kills a project you just will not be able to use their funding they will not allow it so you can we can move forward we just will not be able to use the $3.2 million we anticipate the use okay if if if for some reason the funding is not justified after um speaking with bars yesterday went through some scenarios there is the opportunity to possibly bust a project up into two phases one is to do the correction of the hump which is has been noted multiple times by FD and FAA um in addition to that at the same time you could do the environmental assessment you could be working on the rule justification of course flip-flop EA rule justification correct the hump and then you come back later and you address the rentway extension and the fence relocation these projects we're going over now these are also these are all in the layout plan Airport layout plan any questions on that information do you need us to clarify which way to go or you just going to automatically go ahead with the justification and pursue that well as we get to the end I've got we got some action items we'd like yall to consider so that'll be up to Y that point I just didn't know if yall had any further questions right now on on that situation good okay this is a little dark I apologize scan yall should be a lot clear this is the Triumph sketch that we've asked um bars to provide to us we had some conversations months ago myself Mr Barker uh the attorney for Triumph Mr Atkinson Tim Parson's space Florida Reynolds Henderson at the airport to discuss you know the application and what they felt would be worthy and so this is kind of what we've come up with so we'll walk through it you'll see obviously the purple at the runway that's already the anticipated extension that's already there the gray number two and grade number one those are um taxi ways to the Southside and then the Connector Road that we feel would be beneficial if we're already over there doing the work and creating these projects the green and the orange that is the green is already site certified number one from years ago the Orange is Jee Hurley Park that we would like to develop into some sort of Industry Commercial Business the yellow you see below the green that is two pieces of property um they're split basically right in half five acres each on each side that that will be an opportunity to acquire those properties look into that um for the road relocation KOB can you point to which two you're talking about so green yep and then orange you said the two right here so in this yellow split in half there's five on the right five on the left and so we feel and the triup application would be a lot cheaper and just a lot smarter to come off of what yard down here you see number five followed through Huckabee hucke comes and it turns North right here to this property and it dead ends it' be a lot cheaper to run from right there to Jean Hurley road than it would be come from Woodyard straight across to Jean Harley a lot less Earth to be moved land to be cleared dirt to be filled and Kobe and and previous discussions if if we go that route that saves us over $2 million that we could then use to acquire that piece of propert there two pieces of property that are identified in the the yellow with the yellow dot yes it would be a substantial cost difference right there are some things to consider with that though that we'll have to um check into some that is a county road so we'll have to find out if that road would have to be Widing widen for the traffic if the surface is um is good enough for the increased traffic that's on what might be coming in and out so that has not been done as of yet till it's decided which direction we want to go in I I totally agree with that but I would hope that that would be the cheaper option than building a brand new road to me the building the brand new road is the most expensive option whereas if we can make use of an existing Road and improve it and acquire some additional property to me that that seems to be the most ideal Way Forward yes if if for some reason we we get further into this and I don't know the road isn't isn't you know up to par it can't handle the traffic or whatever I mean we we would obviously try to do another cost estim what it would cost to bring it from a different location but we all feel that's the cheapest by far um okay so in addition to that um let's see the number three which is to the west of Jean Hurley park that is already the road that's already been anticipated for us to be able to get to our Southside corporate hangers those tenants into that taxi way so this what you see here these dots all this here is anticipated to be a little over $16 million one reason we had bars do it like this and we've done it on some other things you're going to see we had them break it down each cost down because we may have the ability to pick and choose what we can and can't do based off of the cost or what Tri will be requiring of us whether that be jobs or certifications if we can or can't meet what the dollar amount will require good okay so for the application um like I said the two sites that are there one is already certified we will need to have the other one certified as well so we will just do them again but time we've spoke with yri Matthews at the WT County Eda he's let us know that FPL will begin that process in February so we will when that time comes we'll submit those and work with him and getting that done because that's essential to the tri Up application Additionally the property Acquisitions that we spoke about um there's potential for that those to be acquired two ways one through arpa dollars we already have through the county we have County arer dollars and City begin that way or we just included into the TR request get the funding for property acquisition and then do it at that time the the reason for these prop the property Acquisitions is the road number one um and but number two it would increase the size of lot a by 10 acres that's substantial in Industrial Development so it it would be huge and so that's the reason we we've included those we really worked through a number of different Road options we own all the property to the west but it' be very expensive to run it all the way across their back to us at some odd angle um and you also have the runway protection Zone to deal with and object free zone so this is what we feel would be most appropriate I think I would I would prefer acquiring it with arpa dollars that way there's no strings attached to that particular property the way very much the way we've done all the other property at the airport that's just my fault on it I agree so for the runway and Triumph I I don't know if it's possible to marry them together in the one larger project or or not but we would like to them for them to to be on the same page so we would love to take some of the aspects of our Runway extension project such as Jee hurle Road relocation and the taxi way connector put those in Triumph they aren't essential to the extension of the runway um from an operation standpoint but they do have to be done for it to be extended but if we can have trium pay for rather than us that's just a bonus but however if FD does not find the project Justified and Triumph denies it we will have to put it back into extension project has to deal with that when it comes up so and then we did have a meeting the other day myself bars Liberty the mayor uh the mayor brought good point see if I've got this photo here there will be the consideration there right initially the road you see the mouse is here on the expansion original scope the road from Jee Hurley North it ran straight to Woodyard Road the reason for that is because they ran this straight and then they wanted to bring another one here there are residents on the north side of scr Haven Road that we can discontinue scroll Haven without an exit they can't get out can't get in can't get out so so that's that's going to have to be considered um in a Triumph and then just our general extension we hope um speaking with bars and them the one the one thing that could help us or hurt us at the same time is when this extension is done there is a Runway protection zone so kind of this cone here this one isn't the complete isn't the perfect example but there is an area in which you can't have a road based off some calculations we did the other day just real quick quick it seems as if our rpz would fall just right at the road or just past it the good thing is we own all the land to the west of that so if we had to for a temporary basis if we could not come straight out or connect them in another way we would just take and relocate that dirt road around into the rpz and tie back in I don't I don't means it sound a certain way clay a question and Barker the uh you know when we rearrange the road from uh County residents what kind of process do we have to go through because we would do that on both those on the south of um te Harley Road that have to come in from this this new road we're talking about using and then those up on the very North End of squirrel run would also have to be rerouted either back toward the airport or just have to give notice that we own all the property we're doing on our property and the Count's participating with us it's really just more of a courtesy notice cannot deprive them of access as long as we're getting them some of access there's nothing complicated okay so yeah this was something that initially we had overlooked um however again I I don't want to sound a certain way but um there's probably three houses up there made right around that I don't know if the access for three houses is worth $2 million to put a road in to get out this doesn't have to do with individuals just has to do with the funding Kobe show the line again how they're blocked off or the road why is it they'll be blocked off okay so the current road the current scroll Haven they come they come down and it wraps back around to Woodyard um but if we if we do not extend Jean Hurley out straight or wrap it around the end of the runway they'll have no exit because our new anticipated route is to come from Woodyard down hucke up and over so there this road would have to go away this right here would be gone it'd have no way to get out or in what why do you why do you have to leave it there because of the rpz correct or I mean you have to eliminate it because of the rpz hopefully hopefully the rpz would be short of it however if it's not it would be our thought to take it this again we own all this and just reroute the dirt road right around the end of it and the reason I think it is because they so critical that we buy that piece of property and U that's the reason I think that the zone does go to the west of squirr Haven I don't know that to be a fact I'm just saying it was a big deal to buy that five acres over there yeah however many acres eight Acres I believe any other questions on that road we'll go back to SC Haven and then obviously Jean Hurley is is expected sunset in December myself and Tim Tim has talked to the state multiple times about that and get clarification that's the that's what we've come up that's what's been told to us now when that time comes we'll get with State and just figure out what the process is for that and what they require of us um we believe with this being out if we refence the airport and we leave this property out of it as it is there are certain things we will not have to abide by by the FAA and we hope that's the case so done the runway and trium now we've got going into two or three projects that we've identified and spoke about and we have funding and we need some direction on if we would like to either begin that process or not one thing as I found out after looking at the plans um and seeing our current what was supposed to be the terminal project if you see on your packet you'll see between the yellow line and the green line so this whole section right here this is what's out there currently this got bided is being built as we we speak that includes a terminal that includes a parking lot the access roads and then this L shape of the apron so everything in the yellow and the red that's part of the original design it just was not bit out we didn't have the funding for it or the bids came in too high and we didn't feel was appropriate time so we've tased bars providing us a sketch on what it would cost to finish this apron build this hanger this parking lot here and then an additional fuel Farm because our current fuel Farm is at our current FBO when we move you got a logistical issue with your fuel being on one of the airport your hangers being on the other terminal and it causes a problem um there's other reasons is I think it's significant and probably warranted but we can get in that if y'all like to know and so funding wise for this project Liberty Partners provided to the congressman done hopefully for consideration and we hope it passes I don't know if Tim will have update on that later or not for 1.1 million which does fall in line with the estimates we've been given to complete the apron here um and then in addition to that the terminal speaking with Cliff ner um over it and the funding we have there he expects there to be roughly a million dollars or so left over that is our arer dollars that we put to that project um and so internally we feel would be worthy of pushing in into a phase two and finishing this this entire project we set out to begin with rather than doing it halfway at the moment if we do not pursue any of this it's nothing but sod they're gonna lay sod down you're just going to cut grass so there's a million dollars from that 1.1 million from Congress hopefully and then additionally in fiscal year 25 for fdot we're entitled to 1.5 million we believe that those three funds put together are sufficient to do what we're looking to do here and then on the right side this is just an update you look through it you'll see our current totals of what's left of the terminal now what funding we've spent and what we got left to finish out so this is a sketch that was wred To Us by barge in the cost estimat which they believe it would be a and b those are the aprons in which would be covered by Congress funding and again it will fall right in line with that cost estimate we believe so that would be covered D the additional parking lot reasonable e andf that is to the fuel Farm C is a little um a little offputting we weren't expecting that I spoke to barge Chrystal barge explained us the reason for that cost um and and why it's so high so in this project if we pursued every aspect of it um we it cost more than what we have that's the reason we had broke down if we removed the hanger we finished the apron put in the fuel Farm did the parking lot we could we could complete it we'd have the funding for that um very easily uh regardless if Congress approved or not Congress has approved take out the hanger you would pay for the pavement you would put a million dollars toward the rest of it or 1.5 so you're going to save somewhere between one to 1.5 million which can be transferred among the airport somewhere else that's if Council feels that the hanger if you feel the hangers um needed we would need to pursue something else if you feel that it's just an added that we can live without then there's option to move forward question about um is leasing and having that built by a private entity that we lease property to an option on that particular piece or is it just to connect it to the terminal it's probably too interconnected to make that feasible I think it would be very difficult um for an FBO come in and not have control over that property would be what my observation is the overall airport plan it's not impossible but you're definitely hamstringing any fix based operator options in future I I definitely think we ought to pursue as much as possible as much as we possibly can on that to me that the additional apron space and the fuel Farm are priority I you know whether we need the parking lot and the hang the hanger I would like the hanger do we have to build the parking lot no you don't have to you PVE it out and put the additional $250,000 toward whatever else or just cost savings yeah I mean to me A and B on on the the apron expansion along with the fuel Farm is would be Priority One and then if we can find some funding by the time lot of that starts to materialize maybe we can find some additional funding for the hanger so what is the goal on the hanger on that particular one in terms of that that terminal that hanger together how's that relationship going to work I mean because if it is a an operator do we start talking about that now or or you can't I mean I I think it's just what's your ultimate goal for the airport in in that role I mean does the city see increased Staffing and management of the airport do you see ultimately when the primary Capital Improvements Rel terminal and the runway are completed and the city has begun ground Ling on private hangers Elsewhere on property as it's indicated C is would it be to bring in a fix based operator to manage that part of it that be competitive procurement that we would have to go through not hand over somebody but I would say this whenever you're trying to solicit a competitive procurement where you're hoping to maximize your return as opposed to just to your cost or limit your cost giving them more options and letting them propose various options to operate the airport is also to lightning experience for the city even if you don't select any of the potential proponents that do the one big catch that we have right now is we don't have the runway yet so you do that you're not not going to be there it's not I mean right now they'd be investing in the future unless we could divert that money that we would be putting into this into the runway and they build this I I would recommend that you not try to attach the award of an FBO contract to construction of permanent fixed assets that you're after unless we have no other options to fund those the runway construction is the most attractive item to Bringing more re to the agreed report's one thing it's a Runway yep um what about generating Revenue by the creation of the other hanger lease spaces and going ahead and getting Revenue that way so we could begin this other work you can started I think the problem right now is you'll be having people buying on speculation we need put together policies Council would like to discuss that to goad and look at developing that site plan developing the pavment of the tax ways and access road to get to that North South area where we've contemplated lease pad or pad leases for hangers that's an opportunity I think one thing that's probably throwing some cold water on that plan is unfortunately now extended period of time before Runway design even begins if we could tell somebody ay not design but construction starting now getting reservation fees would be quite easy we have plenty of people interested but you really want to be able to charge a substantial reservation fee or pre sale fee you're going to need to be able to deal with pry firm construction time the other thing when we do this that we talked about in Prior meetings is the idea that you'll need a buildout time frame on those anchors to do that you're going to have to have the clock to start is it from the day they do a prease or is it from the day we give them notice of commencement or approval of the runway typically attach it to something you're doing so that the airport Falls in order process rather than people building things you build hangers now I want to be very clear you're not going to be building hangers for what the runways will ultimately accomplish there's no incentive to build an oversiz hanger today when a larger plane is going to be accommodated in the future feel building hangers for what's out there we do have people currently contacting us W ground laces they're w there I I think we stay the course with getting the runway done and and pushing that ball as fast as hard as we can especially with this environmental assessment in the design phase um let's let's evaluate these additional apron expansions and fuel Farm expansions because that's only going to increase the viability and the appeal of the airport and to me the hanger comes that some point when we finally do find funding you know if we if we really keep things rolling the way that we have seen them roll I I believe that in in a couple more years you know the ask for money to build a hanger would be a lot easier than it than it is right now if we can point and say new terminal expanded Runway here's all of the ground leases that we have signed up I think it's then a lot easier to to justify the ask for the money to build that hanger right next to the FBO I would one thing I would say is um as soon as we're ready with the runway I want to be able to start counting on the on the revenue so I want to make sure that we're ready for the ground leases right the moment that the actual construction begins on the runway yeah because I think we can take commitments at that point so I want to work both of these from that date so work work everything to that anticipated commencement date set that as the target date for the availability of of ground Leasing and parallel both of those yeah eliminate the large hanger parking lot D won't be necessary because we won't have enough activity yet do all the fuel components so we upgrade our system and it's functional MH and and can operate on its own without having to have someone out there constantly I mean which we've upgraded but I know we had some issues early on with that process in terms of the self-pay and self pump so I just want to make sure that continues to to move forward I think most of that's been resolved with that new system um what what is the plan for the old fuel Farm does it just stay in place and continue to operate as a secondary fueling point or yes so this would be a totally new one we won't be relocating that's not my intent anyways and I don't think that's what the cost estimate covers for a fully new one um and so I feel it's Justified for a number of reasons one like I said the logistics are where it's at two air methods uses a lot of fuel we fill up a lot they have to fill up a lot we do have issues there's concern for them to get what they need so it couldn't hurt I mean it would not hurt as one bit to have two fuel Farms just adds capacity yeah for sure we sell a lot of fuel we s a lot to them we sell a lot to military opport we could designate I mean this could be for our regular planes to comeing in out and leave that one for the military and air methods and those type of things over there on the other end what what's our annual fuel cells does anybody know off the top of our their head it's roughly $300,000 right around there that profit or net or gross that's profit gross I than I I agree with councilman Valley of of paralleling those two two projects the the ground leases as well as these other activities and tie it all together with the construction of the runway so that when that Runway is complete it is Gang Busters out of the airport and it starts paying for itself immediately right I mean it's got to pay for itself at that point right yeah okay so do we need a motion or Direction in terms of I think I think he wants to do all that at the end okay yeah if you don't mind okay so phase two this is just a explanation of what I was talking about about funding sources that we have again if we cut the The Hanger out you're going to have you know rough somewhere between this one to 1.5 million left over because we're not allocating it to that then we get into the taxi and taxiway and access road for hangers 18 19 to 20 this is off the east side of the airport you see the red line cutting across the beginning of it over there is off Country Club Drive comes through and for this particular right it was stop where you see the Red Line stop and you have the hangers and the um the pad again we have a million dollars for a construction which is appropriation um Liberty is working on a 1.8 million job gr Grant fund so we had some questions other day I had questions and I think I think it would probably be appropriate if if Liberty could probably explain to us a little more about the the application itself just kind of give overview of that and then um the next slide when they get done we'll go over what Bard has provideed to us as an updated cost estimate for what we're looking at so thank you Council um for the record my name is James swinsky work with Liberty Partners um forgive me if my throat sounds a little bit messed up at a procedure yesterday so just to give you all a high level overview on this application um basically we propose building hangers 18 through 20 and we're going to bring in hopefully both Advanced manufacturing and informational Information Technology jobs um and a lot of this is exactly what you all have already seen several times laid out in the Triumph application it's just rephrased in a format that the state will understand for the job growth Grant fund um because they're looking for specific cons consistency with a few targeted Industries um so we kind of rephrase those jobs that we're creating and very accurately so um to reflect what could be created in that space um now with the job growth Grant fund I know that there was a few questions from the city so I kind of wanted to um kind of wanted to give you all some background context this is a fairly new program it's been going on for about six years there is a 10-year window to create jobs at after initial execution of the application um right now the application has about 200 direct jobs in there with other indirect jobs we may be able to up up that number a little bit um our company's been having some conversations with folks that would fall under targeted industries that would bring a very very very high level of jobs to the area far greater than what we've been speaking about previously um so I think it's important to approach this project not looking at what you all have now but at what this is going to be 10 years down the road and I think that's going to be huge um I mean a rising tide floats all boats and look at what's happening in the south portion of the county so this is the ideal airport for smaller and basically the AR the argument the application makes is this this is the ideal airport for folks who can't get Runway space at Panama City or Dustin Fort Walton you don't want to have to deal with commercial traffic running through there and taking up the runways constantly um but want some some free time on the runway themselves so we think a lot of operations can be attracted to there we've been speaking with companies that um that have talked about bringing more jobs than we need to create as part of this project and right now we laid out a vision of what we think it can be and and these numbers might go up I know we talked about Kobe and I the the shortfall from the city's perspective on the current construction of hangers 18 through 20 adding in those access roads and with the increasing costs that barge brought up um earlier this week during those conversations so we're we're looking at revisiting this application um not in any way that would change the context of the application as a whole um but something that would potentially get the ask a little higher based on potential commitments from employers and the way this program works is Florida commerce wants to see companies that are looking at defunc Springs or another location and an award would be the hinge pin to get those companies to come to defc Springs um and I think that's exactly what we got lined up so this is a very very promising project and with that I'm yall have any questions any questions no sir thank you very much thank you all very much appreciate it so like James said we got cost we got updated costest estimat I had uh spoke with libery last week um and tried to figure out where we got the original cost estimates from we know they've always been around we didn't know what if they were accurate what they consisted of what they took into account so we asked bars to give us some updated ones and they have um if for some reason you have any questions on the cost estimate they're here to answer that and explain where it's coming from actually I do have one question on that so is this kind of what councilman valy was alluding to earlier is this a a project where you know we could get funding and maybe with some of that money left over by not doing the hanger you said we'd have about 1.5 million so we could move that money over here to B you know to the proposed taxi way or the apron there b or F and then could we potentially at that point you know do the the pad lease type of scenario where these people that are wanting to come in that they're possibly tied to the job growth Grant fund then turn around and build those hangers instead of the city shucking out $2.6 million a hanger is that possible I would have to defer to 10 naal Grant terms in terms of the application but I would not see why it would not be from a legal perspective reason why that would not work under the G retric don't know that's the typical process that they would follow do but I don't think it's so far outside the norm prohibited or power the application but so yeah that that leads into the phase approach I mean here here's the overall of what is expected to cost to do that um you see Road you see the access road you see the three hangers the apron and then the taxiway which connects to the 27n um $16 million I mean that road is very substantial cost and I believe Chris C I Wrong the G the geography here is awful so we would have thousands 30 30,000 yeah can we explain how bad it is good evening Council my name is Chris Grace I'm with barge um and I did prepare these these cost estimates and um my job tonight is to kind of be the wet blanket um so I'll apologize up front for that but i' I'd rather tell the truth now then then come back to you in a couple years and say hey we just we missed it uh so first of all I want you to know we are uh we're drawn with a pretty fat pen on on these cost estimates there's a lot that we don't know you can see the topography actually in the previous um slide that Kobe had shown we've got 5- foot aerial Contours um it's pretty good but um if you look at that that that apron uh order magnitude on the FI on the east side of that apron under the largest hanger there e which is a 100 by 100 uh you're you're looking at somewhere between 20 to 25 foot of fill in that area um now we just took what was on the Al and we ran with that there there probably are some cheaper options if we were to slide that to the West some um but but there's dominoes uh that that start to fall when we do that affecting your uh your north south Runway uh ating affecting the runway visibility zone between that north south Runway and your East West Runway so there's just a lot of things that need to be considered we work with what we had um and and this is the the result that we we came up with we did run a model and a profile through on that road to come up with those quantities so there we didn't just pull that from the air um and then of course we we provided some allowance for utilities that would just be Water and Sewer at this point but the kind of technology that we're talking about I imagine we would need to contemplate data and certainly power um we've got a $750,000 contingency or allowance rather in there for that so um that's the short story of how we came up with what we did but I'd be happy to answer any other the questions that you may have about any of these costs or anything else that we've provided tonight I guess my my comment and and question would be you've alluded to the fact that if we shift it there's there's other implications to that and and my comment is just like what we've learned with Jean Hurley you know 20 20 years later you know there can be implications that we didn't think about at the time you sticking a park out by the airport at the time it probably seemed like a great idea and here we are 20 years later wishing they hadn't done that right um and nobody has a has a crystal ball on it but I guess my my comment is is this the mo what you what you have here is this the most ideal de that doesn't kind of cause any other dominoes to fall or is there a better placement and this is just kind of in the middle or so Council we took that straight from the airport layout plan and uh that's that's what was approved by fot and by FAA uh if we were to to consider the changes that I'm suggesting we would need to revisit that with them sometimes well in most cases they will allow us to do a what's called a pen and ink change to an Alp um which is is pretty minor but once they've approved that aop once they've signed off on it we can't just be shifting buildings and taxi ways around we we have to hold their hand they have to hold our hand we have to make those decisions together so um I think my professional opinion is that we should move it to the West uh I just don't understand why you'd want to be placing 30 to 40,000 yards of material out there um there there's risks that you run with settlement that that would be a big concern that that field wouldn't be cheap to place because you'd be running a lot of density tests um your your tenant would want some assurances on settlement so there's just a there's a lot of issues that would come with fields of that order of magnitude so you you actually believe that like maybe flipping it and pointing it more towards the West is actually a better better move than where it is now is that well I'm talking about just wholesale moving the thing maybe 300 feet to the west or turning it diagonally to I guess that's an old um maybe an old Runway there from military okay um that that may be a solution you see a lot of military aprons that are oriented that way so there's there's multiple Solutions we we didn't run down any of those roads we just took what we had and um an estimated based on that but I I think there's some other options that we could uh investigate and come up with a a much more economical Sol solution to what you're seeing yeah I guess you know the general consensus of the council although we haven't technically voted on it for the last I would say year year and a half has been that obviously we we well we actually did vote to to move the funding from the north south Runway to the east west Runway and prioritize that and I I know from what the city managers heard there's a lot of complaints about that dirt Runway and the dust and debris that it kicks up and causing issues with the planes so General consensus of the council has been to to uh kind of abandon that north south Runway and and fill that in with hangers so if that's the case then maybe like you said moving at 300 feet to the West is going to save us a lot of money and sure and that I wouldn't um I don't want speak off the cuff here but you know from a revenue standpoint the city's best interest if that that dirt Runway is generating Revenue in the form of a leases and tenants that's probably better for the city yeah yeah anything else any other questions thank you very much thank you also the the proposed property acquisition the county owns that the little square you see on the far right that is an inde independent um property owner the road though you see depicted runs through County property and where where it begins um is property that's attached to the road itself which Country Club Drive I is that a city street or is that a County Street that hatched area right there that looks like it's kind of cleared that's not a new house is it right here yeah uh looking on the properer today there's not a house sitting there I don't believe but it is someone does own that little square which we would be around the edge of it but the county owns all this here okay well then the entrance here is in like what would would consider to be like I guess maybe like a utility entrance or something probably goes 20 ft in there that's the cities okay okay again if for some reason if if we believe initial cost is too large and there's a opportunity to break it down into phases like Council B bom is suggested getting the road built get taxiway and then having someone build the hangers themselves um instead of the city flipping the bill for that especially if it falls in line with the job growth Grant fund and then the third project uh we brought this up here a couple months ago working with barge on this um they have brought to our attention that again we have some entitlement funds that we were unaware of and so a good use of those funds after discussion and going through this have multiple meetings would be rehabbing the a the asphalt around the existing tea hangers and then the two corporate hangers closest to the current FBO it holds a lot of water it's in bad shape um and eventually needs to be fixed completely so the initial ask was to in fiscal year 24 for the FAA to get the dollars to to design um when doing that FAA wants to know that you have dollars committed the the next year to do the construction they're not they don't want to give you the design dollars you're not going to complete it the following year they want it done and so we decided to move that project back one year with the hopes of um using FAA dollars for design and then in fiscal year 26 if other projects at the airport do not require it um using the $900,000 that is assigned to us for fiscal year 26 we believe that would be sufficient um to do that and it's something that has been brought up multiple times by fdot and inspections it's it's been brought up by tenants and so that's a project that we would like to put onto our jup we want to put that in motion with the hopes that the fdot funding would pay for that fiscal year 26 if for some reason we fall short on another project and it requires it we will readdress it and either move it or push it back are are any of those shown there the ones that were damaged during the tornado no those are these here those were okay okay okay okay so that that's for the projects and then on a further further note we've had we've had people bring it up I know we've had discussions about it um we've already hended it here tonight there are four main points we'd like to discuss and try to get some either some real motion on or some discussion on first one be in the dirt Runway um is it the council desire to keep it is it to discontinue it is it to repurpose what what do we want to do with that um that does change up the potential for ground leases you can move those ground leases closer to the existing corporate hangers which already have taxi ways and access roads your infrastructure calls be a lot less to begin that um additionally again ground leases I told Mr Parker I had someone call two days ago man wanting to house a g a Gulf Stream g45 450 and a G650 he just needs to land to do it we don't do that at the time the moment in that dirt Runway right now for the most part what it's being run for used for we have some contractors doing some practicing on it they like to practice everything from repelling to dropping stuff out um but they hit the dirt I think the military has used it a couple times for some practice stuff but that's really the only thing it's it's really been used hardly any Revenue right no no that's no Revenue it's just there and they it's it's a flat spot and they they go use it I mean even if we burn gas I mean they you know they we if we had spent $3 million on Ser some of it or all of it or whatever still still not really benefiting right yeah right how many how often are we getting Landings on there when the when the winds aren't right for the East West I have to ask that I don't know that it's that frequent I mean I can tell you what's being done on it right now when those hanger doors are open it Blow sand all in there and the tenants do not like that I mean they it's fun to watch them do that stuff out there but it's what they stir up with sand wise most of the time those hanger doors are open when they're working on planes or whatever it don't work too well I think barge can answer I believe that their uh analysis said that the uh the up time for East West was approxim like 98% or something like that wasn't that in one of the reports that I saw sure maybe it was an earlier one but it was I mean it wasn't 100% but it was it was in the high 90s I recall wind C yes for appropriate for for usage I mean I I'll provide this anecdotally we you know we've discussed this several different times and we've actually had a pilot stand up at at that Podium there and say you know the winds weren't favorable for East West and he really didn't like landing on the Sandy Runway um and I can't remember what kind of plan it was he had but we we've talked about it numerous times at this point and we I think Gentleman Just even said that dirt Runway would probably Ser us better as ground leases than it would as a Runway so I I tend to think that because of the the Topo of the land and the and the funneling effect that you get from the winds out of the South I think having that Runway there is actually creating a wind uh effect ffect north south do any of you know anything about airplanes come on come on up East West Runway is fine but it should be I'm George Roland and I'm a pilot uh the East West Runway is fine and it's great for corporate airplanes and all that that can take High Crosswinds small airplanes need to fly take off and land into the wind then this airport is east west the wind is north south now yes dirt is not good but you could put salt on it for well less than what you're talking about throwing around has changed to move from Project to project a s Runway is a great Runway it's easy to land tail dagers can use it fixed wi airplanes can use it helicopters can use it doesn't hurt a damn thing now this is this whole talk tonight is about the great industrial product that you're going to develop but it's an airport airports are for airplanes that's what they were designed for keep the north south Runway put some Sal on it it won't cost you a hell of a lot of money and no pilot ever stood up here and said oh do away with the north south Runway which is into and into the wind and let's do Crosswinds only all the little airplanes that have made this airport what it is up to now prefer that north south Runway if it was usable but when it's a dirt strip the only use it has is to identify where Dunc Springs is when you're at 6,000 feet it's a scar let me tell you this for years and we have we've had go in the red on that airport every single year you know it doesn't sustain itself with the traffic we have the present time and so we you know we have spent a great deal amount of money on both solid engineering and kind of the exploratory engineering and you know we have got to pay ourselves back I understand that Bob but you're talking about having a million something from the terminal left over to shift to something else talking about moving hundreds of thousands of yards of dirt when all you have to do is move those hangers to a diagonal and you're on Solid Ground how much common sense is working here how much is Just balancing books plenty of Common Sense is working here plenty of Common Sense is working here well I mean it finally came up that you could just turn those hangers 45 degrees with the hall and we agreed to that yeah but but why wasn't it thought about earlier because it nobody brought nobody brought it up well that plan's not been approved or finalized no okay the city's not spent one putting any of those hangers where they were that's what this meeting is about to set those kind of discussions well how about taking care of the little guys that have been here for all the time flying into func Springs that have a lot invested in this the other question I've got is when you build the East West Runway extension are you going to close down the runway for couple years it won't be for a couple years but there will be some disruptions to it while it is exp the hump is fixed and it is expanded you'll probably end up with a displace threshold yeah display threshold but uh are you going to close the runway or you going to kick the businesses out that exist now no we don't plan on kicking the run the the business I mean just by closing them down not having them be able to bring airplanes in and out of here if you have the north south Runway you don't have to worry about the little airplanes that are coming in for avionics repairs or for airframe repairs they can still fly in sir you just simply said that the the the north south Runway is only good for identifying that you're at defc Springs at 6,000 feet but then you're arguing to keep no no no the way it is as a dirt Runway but we don't have any money to to make it into a fully paved Runway noad Runway grass strip that's not expensive and it would solve your dirt problem your flying dirt problem it would also make it a lot easier for the helicopters and a little airplanes to come in and out of here and they won't interfere with your big airplanes so when you bring your jets corporate jets in here and you're going to bring them over to your nice new terminal that's great what about the little guys they all pay bills they all buy fuel they all pay hanger rent that's what we're interested in is operating the airport in the black not in the red I understand that so what's it going to cost you to sod the north south Runway don't know well it certainly isn't in the millions and it would solve both your dirt problem and what happens when you shut down the runway in order to do your added construction I I I appreciate your concern but my opinion is that it would be better served as hanger space just hanger space yes sir the whole Runway yes sir yeah I guess it might if your only interest is in how many dollars you can squeeze that of it and it is not an airport it's a business it's our fiduciary responsibility is it not only to the point that you've defeated the purpose of having an airport in the first place okay thank you well I know it's a tough one it's going to you'll be up with the council here I know that we're not going to make everybody happy so the actions uh is there that one you want to take up now or one of the other uh money shifts or what got few more things that's all right mayor go I'm sorry so next would be the office space we've had a lot of um interest in renting the office space the current FBO the other half methods is in one half of it we're in the other half so when we move we've had interest in that um and then Additionally the new terminal we'll have substantial office space available so there has been a lot of interest in that especially from our current Pilots Academy they're that was informed two days ago they gotten an additional certification from the FAA coming hopefully which will allow them to expand what they're doing and get a few more planes their airport so I know they're interested in that type of thing and so that's kind of Direction too we're looking at is is a city looking to rent the space out how do we want to use it going forward what's what's the current maintenance on that building because I know previous city managers have told me that that current FBO building has roof problems and has some other issues so I mean are is it worth investing in for for the return on investment of the leases that we would get out of it we're we're constantly doing stuff to it but it's primarily because we have people living in there so we have air methods in there living in there pretty much so to do their operations so uh we've had issues with plumbing and stuff like that but again it's due to them living in there keeping showers going with you know a lot of the stuff is old um so we've had an amount actual roof leaks I don't think we've had any recently not substantial but um but we've had some we've had some constant maintenance in there with like shower facilities and bathroom and stuff like that but we're we've been redoing that stuff too so there's there's I believe it would rent so there might be the opportunity once we move to the new facility to have an assessment of the building make sure it's even worth it if it's worth it we'll fix it and rent if it's not then y'all can take appropriate action what you feel is necessary but we've had I've had questions about the um about the uh renting out in the new facility of selling we've we've got some people in interested in selling um different things to do with um you know t-shirts hats um equipment that you know the Pilots use and stuff in there they want to put a retail operation in there so we've had we're having questions like that already and have been getting for months now good liness but I'm pretty positive oh I'm sorry I didn't know if Amy had a question oh sorry mayor I have some generic uh questions I would like to ask and maybe have an but I'd like to wait till his presentation's completed before I have that opportunity okay um I believe I'm reading the AL right the intention to be end of the day was to put hangers there is that not how that reads to everyone to get rid of those two buildings and then put hangers I know blur I apologize but is that not that different color I I believe the Alp called to remove that building and then to have hangers built so if you removed it if it wasn't worth it then you can do I mean there two groundy spots there as long as they didn't affect faa's HS yeah I vaguely remember that now um but was it was it that the current FBO building is like on the edge of one of the one of the zones the exclusion zones or something like that we would have to find out if it's even possible ath too close to the expansion it took place but they took off I remember when Dan was here if he took the overhang on the side closest to theway and that that buffers on okay it has something to do with the north south that was the east west but it was for East West well on the North sou it was a space in between you know that big uh yeah it's kind of like a big retention Pond or something I believe in there now that was uh that is restricted by the virtual space and I think the old terminal like they said yeah it was like the porch was encroaching and I think it's because they moved it they they widened the runway 25 yeah yeah they're going to be widening it yes 25 I think yeah yes I think we just need to do an assessment once the once we move out of it back out okay all right so that's that we'll get some direction on in a minute and then um we we have brought this up to Mr Barker I brought it up to Mr ainson we are still um I would call it I guess clay make sure the negotiation phase with our initial bid for the runway project this design bid Bill the last we did was we were provided a scope service from from the bidder we provided that to fdot that was months ago we've yet to hear back from them I have followed up since then have not continued to pursue it hard because of the conversations we've been having so the kind conversation we had was to decide if we want to continue with that to get that scope pushed through get them on board but at the time we were unaware of the timeline we're dealing with now so at a minimum you're looking at from a year year and a half roughly year to year and a half from now from them every beginning will cost estimat be the same will the scope be the same according to triump those are things that will change I don't know that Triumph would change it would it because the Triumph ask us for property related to outside defense that's what was making Triumph appealing well there were certain aspects like the Southside taxiway yeah if you included that in your Triumph ask that connects directly to the runway and you have to mobilize two different units to do the same thing so you not when the first started speaking you were uh so we got some restrictions we didn't know about but as the funding from the north south Runway uh is that completely removed or if it's something delay no so we have already submitted resolutions to them they come back said okay we were aware of the rule change after the fact now they we were in that section we're in there now uh we're waiting to get the direction on some of these projects mov forward because again it will require from speaking to ke some substantial effort and time which will come with a cost to do to bring that justification data to them to hopefully get that justification so yes we we would do that inide at the same time as the EA then the course environmental study is something we got to do right now and we can't even be in the middle of design until that's done corre so so I thought that if if the FAA says that it's a Justified project we're golden y we spoke too I know Keith and spoke too Keith come up here and speak too um I'll let you explain his conversation with Stephen at the FAA good evening Council uh my name is Keith Shippy with barge yeah so I did reach out to the fa project manager because you're right we were thinking the justification was done with the Master Plan update aop update but apparently at the time that document was prepared they didn't do a formal justification study they mentioned in there that in fact if you read it there's some footnotes that mention the fact that at the time that was prepared there probably wasn't enough data to justify it but that was years I mean that was eight nine years ago but there from I can't get anybody to give me a document a formal justification document I guess and that's what's going to have to be done given to fot so they'll approve the uh funding to be used for the extension okay and that's what's going to take some it's just gonna take some effort and can you give us any kind of ballpark on that I really need to go back and talk to the team but I'm going to say ballart probably 50,000 maybe if I don't I don't know maybe less it just it just I just need to do a little bit of more background to say exactly what's out there before I we put a formal scope and fee together I guess so so this is a new policy but this is a new process so we're just not sure of how it's going to run or an we know we know what has to be done it's just a matter of putting all the data together to get to you got to basically prepare a formal report a justification study which includes but the process is the same that process was just never done Dan didn't submit the resolutions in time and so now we're on this new process yeah I guess my question is do we feel um like it is a likely unlikely or 50-50 proposition in terms of justification because it's a process that has existed before and you know how it plays out and what they're looking for and what standard they're expecting or is it something that because of the policy change is basically a new standard and we really don't know how they're going to make determinations it's it's not really a new standard but it's going to be it's going to take some creativity and um some you know some definitely some effort in in in gathering that based on the you know based on the aircraft currently using the airport I guess and so what do you where do you gauge our probability of success it's hard to say he it's really hard to say probility not not you know not a guarant I probably greater than 50% better than a queen flip yeah I'm sorry I can't get anymore I don't I just you know you you if you were a betting man always now you're putting me on the spot any other questions on that yeah unfortunately what's the time frame on it what how long would it take well you know that I said Kobe mentioned if this goes concurrently with the EA this will take less time than the EA so that's this is going to be the um this is going to hold it up six months maybe okay I mean got do it yeah waad you about the process and all that yes just a little bit of background you know what what we'll have to do is look at the current uh traffic mix what's currently using to Runway and if there's any local businesses or you know we need to if we can get letters of support they have type you know it's G to take basically business Jets um that that want to use the runway that that may not be able to because they're penalized they may not be able to take off of the full fuel capacity so that they're they're limited and it's data like that get the get the name of that guy that's got the the g450 and the 650 because so okay well I know you guys have we got a lot of questions and they don't all time together but the you looked at the topography out there I'm sure at link and U we're just very limited as to where we can do the future growth and Hangers got to be pretty much where we have proposed I guess you've seen have you seen we had a uh a drawing of how many we had thought about 50 to 100 Commercial oh yeah it was a bunch bunch of them and they were all running down the east side of where the North and South Runway is well and and to add to that real quick mayor we had even talked about shifting that over closer to the existing hangers so that it would leave the potential future for north south runway on that east side where the the land's a little more favorable for an actual north south Runway and I want to State for the record so the public knows why that is that we're limited on Space it's because the topography we fall off a cliff just like that road has issues where they're having to bring in tremendous amounts of fill airplanes and and aprons and Hangers they need flat land and when you go south you are dropping 50 60 ft I mean across that property to the South which is why we can't we'll never be able to expend extend north south if it ran as it is now it'd be virtually impossible uh and that's that's the rub if I because I very early on was hopeful of keeping north south um but the geography just doesn't work there and and if we can't if it can't pay for itself my feeling is is I mean we'd be better off going back to the old 331 plan run 331 right through it we'll turn into Regional ball fields and and at least if we're spending the money it might as well be for recreation but if we're going to be losing this much money it's got to be it's it's got to be manageable it's got to be serving the general public yeah I guess what my just was thinking while we're talking because on that West Side the the the fall is not near as great is right down the middle and over on the east side it very Falls very dramatically uh but I just don't know what you could put on that uh West Side you know where we have the five hangers now as you continue South it doesn't degrade quite that bad uh if you based on the county contour map and uh and I've walked it out but it's not I don't think we could put near the hangers in there that we'd like the the number of hangers U but don't know I haven't seen anybody pencil that in to see what we could put over there not as bad as e side yeah that's something with mayor we could definitely definitely explore maybe just have you waste a lot of energy on it but right you know trying to figure out what economic yeah Kobe are you ready for motions yes believe so so yes we will need some direction on how y'all like to move forward with that bidding process where we're at now before we do that can I ask some generic questions okay um mayor can I ask Mr Roland one question certain Mr Roland how how how what's the length of uh come on Mr Mind 1836 what's the length of the dirt Runway uh we can pull up the slide and take a look the picture with a dirt Runway do you know what the length of that is co it's it's about 3,000 ft yeah I think 2800 maybe 3,000 I think it's 2,800 but that's for light slightly under five right for the uh 927 roughly 800 feet roughly 800 feet sh okay and that the fact that it drops off to the end makes it a lot easier to land there because you the land is dropping away so you don't have to be at such a steep angle a 3,000 foot Runway into the wind is ideal for light twins single engine airplanes 2700t 2736 South 4146 by 60 for 27 which is the East West got other questions you want for him yeah the rest of them I think are for Kobe actually and these are just generic questions but you had mentioned uh the new space the new terminal uh how many units do we have there and what are we anticipating for rents at at they all rented out I mean I would assume we would do commercial rates just like any other Commercial Business um unitwise I don't know the exact number of units looking just trying to remember my head how the walls are laid out I mean you're you're looking at in excess of eight office spaces 10 maybe eight units okay yeah it's pretty walled out eight to 10 okay um oh um I don't know who can answer this one but in the event that 927 the construction moves forward how long will it be out of commission to where no aircraft no Aviation can come and go unless at 18 it would uh it would just depend um from our conversations with bars the other day once we get to the hump section it's pretty inevitable I mean at that point we've taken so we've taken it down so far there's going to be a period of time we have to address the hump is it GNA be 18 months no no no no the hump's just a part of the actual Project Extension yes yes that' be the first remediation and then I would assume if they if it's a able to do a threshold once we get the hump fixed you do a threshold reduction and then continue so I guess I'm I'm and my my head's trying to mathematically calculate certain things but so if the runway is down and nobody can come and go I think once the H was fixed what I was told years ago was that they could probably utilize maybe 3,000 ft of the runway oh so smaller crafts can come in but not yeah right yeah so you fix the hump there may be a complete shut off of the hump fix it and then you might open it back at a certain point but it's imperative won't there be equipment and stuff up on the runway where it's going to hinder that that'll be that's an for our engine we get to that point I don't know if they can that would be the No No but I mean it's imperative I mean when you go to the hump if it's too short I mean we're gonna have to shut it located right now I mean based we have towards the West so so they could still open up I don't know 1,500 2,000 feet of it probably without any impairments of the when you've got Industrial Equipment workers on the runway you close the runway obviously air I think he's correct I can tell you what they do in EG as well they do they do a lot of ping out there CW Roberts do does havav in at EG quite often and they when you get the B out for those they work at night they'll work 24 hours sh they'll work 24 hours a day in different shifts that they get it done but they don't shut it down it's not like a typical road paving project that you see out inside the road it takes forever they when they get on it they're on timel to get done with but are you talking about commercial airlines coming in there or is that that all military which they're controlling anyway that's both both both okay well my my understanding the last time we we discussed this avcon gave us the impression that while they're fixing the hump you would have a shorter Runway the runway wouldn't be fully closed but you would have a shorter Runway that would be available and to to the city manager's point you know we even back then discussed options about making them work 24-hour shifts making them work you know expedite the the correction of the hump so that the the disruption to the airport is absolutely minimized I don't think anybody wants a prolonged period of it being shut down no I agree I'm just trying to collect some generic information for my knowledge so that I can make unforunately I think what have comes always told us I to Bar address it the original information we received was that until we actually did the full design of permitting we would not be able to discuss the phase and the approach and doing that and be a part of that design process would tell us in the construction phase how you could use a portion of that Runway during or what how long it will be shut down so they said you could have very minable shut down time I don't think they give us a time frame but very minimal to much more severe depending on what was required but you get the environmental is be part of that if you north south Runway open you wouldn't have a problem still use this Kobe do you know how much money we've already spent that's foregone that we we're not going to get back because we're going to have to duplicate the the issues like the environmental study and the um how much has the only thing this at this point I guess the city would have spent on the runway project in that aspect would have been the EA they began back in 2018 I don't know what the cost that was it's my understanding though it was through the grant was through a grant through the fdot at the time so it didn't come out of the city's pocket no I know but that's the only total that's the only thing I'm aware of has been expended on the project was just that one is that one item that's the only I know we I've found that's all we found is and and in a best case scenario real world and we build it exactly like Y what we're suggesting here's my here's my next question what's that going to net the city how what where's the Revenue projections on okay here's what we're proposing here's what it's going to look like here's what we're going to bring in how much is that I mean we would have to do you we have to do a cost analysis I mean it would you're going to have to guess how many planes are coming in in accordance with fuel sales you're gonna have to know how many ground leases we have what's the rental that we bring in from that what's the additional I mean I can I can give you that I mean I would have we have I'm just wondering in the overall let me ask on that one well while he's doing the justif justification study how much of that will you learn far uh well you know as far as economic development that's one thing I was going to mention with a longer runway in addition to fuel sales and all that you have the potential to recruit Industries businesses that need need a 5000 foot Runway that would locate locate here and economic impact but as far as actually doing a justification study that typically the do not have any economic factors in as far as how much revenue extension would give so it's a little bit of a crystal ball it is ask you might ask Matthew I think Liberty wanted to speak as well Liberty you're Matthews for the record um I would just say there are opportunities for uh me to run some economic development um uh studies through some software we have so I could get with uh Kobe um this next week I could run through the idea of um some of the job numbers that were mentioned um when we input the uh revenue generated by those jobs um Capital uh expenditures of of the facilities there um in addition to the other metrics I think we could probably come up with a comprehensive sort of look at what that impact is over over time I want to say mayor didn't doesn't fot every four or five years produce a periodical because at one point somebody put in my hand an fot publication that talked about the specific economic impact 54j had on the area and it was dated like in the 201s most recent ones 2022 yes okay can we can we get a copy of that that might that might help yeah absolutely help with some of your yeah and I've read a couple things about like Georgia airports that are that are owned by their cities and how they're just overcome all kinds of obstacles to make it a generating a revenue generator versus a depletion of their funding so I would have thought I know this has been an ongoing project so I just would have thought somebody would have done some upfront information for the council to make decisions because you know why would we sit here and talk talk about spending 2530 million whatever it's going to end up being in totality without knowing what you know the impact what it is that we want on the other side what do we want to accomplish with the whatever amount of money it is that we're going to spend on the project for me my my thought process has been getting getting the airport out of the out of the red when I when I first came on to the city council the airport was operating in the red years so okay so by Millions I mean I'm not sure if I remember correctly it was at least a couple hundred thousand a year and it had been that way for years and through you a steady hand approach that this the council has has taken to the airport we've seen growth and we've seen the re the basically come out of the red and into the black and I want to continue that trajectory part of that was just raising rates which correct had resistance at first because it hadn't been raised in 15 20 years right U so we were way behind on rates right one small individual airports military Aviation fac study indicated that to the region District three4 J contribut 37 that's it and and I also wanted to speak Jim swinsky again I wanted to speak briefly to that study because that's part of what we're using for our job creation analyses for the job growth Grant fund um it found that depending on the industry the average number of jobs created for every one job created on the airport site you create 1.56 or 1.6 jobs offsite um and again that varies depending on the industry you're bringing in but that's just a good General metric to go by um and and it is so critically important that fot took takes the time every few years to do a study for it because it is such a huge impact especially on Rural economies and that study did include um all rural airports in the state as well even general aviation airports reference CHR ucw 911 million whiches juston Clay is that the actual study that councilman beerbom was discussing he me this2 fdot site yeah I'm looking at it right2 okay I'll look it up thank you yeah Florida Aviation economic impact study by FD 2022 and you know just some common information is that over the years we've had we've had some pretty large corporations talking about coming in here but until they were able to come here with their corporate Jets no problem uh we weren't on their list and uh they're talking about us now you know yeah and for for me four years ago I I can remember actually sitting down with clay and saying I don't just want another Taco Bell job I want something real that's going to pay somebody a good wage to live here in defc and not go somewhere else and when he talked about some of the the previous opport ities that have have kind of come knocking to the airport you know that that's what really had a light bulb moment for me that that that's why I'm focused on the airport and and really believe that if we can get this Runway expanded the new terminal completed and do some of these other things with with ground leases I really think that it will be a legacy that this Council will leave that we have hundreds of jobs if not more than that in this area that are high well-paying jobs they're not just $15 an hour jobs Mr Matthews can tell you there is no other airport all County and for the past 15 years the mayor will call every single RFP we've had to respond to County we have had to collaborate with Okaloosa or Bay County when the question has been do you have an airport because our answer is and because it always qualifies a for jet traffic find wrong way our answer is but you come in cres you come in Des you come in ECP every single time that's what we have to do so we had to turn away or bring in our neighboring partners and unfortunately I can't think of a single one of those projects that cited at wal County but I know two that cited at Bob sits and cres and you know another thing too with all the jet owners or the corporate people on on South Walton that park over in Dustin u d ACP when you get when you get these guys parking here and they're going to drive down 331 I think I've hung around a lot of corporate people and they cannot shut that mine down I mean they're gonna they're gonna think you know what I could move my headquarters a lot closer than having to fly over to Nashville or California you know and then by the same token you know they whether it's a corporation or just a brand of what they do across the country they think my God I to put one right here and I'll promise you that'll happen just by them just by the relationship they have with the territory uh mayor Tim Parson with Liberty Partners at tassy I just wanted to add a few things kind of give a historic perspective on the types of U you know grants and funding opportunity that that we've sought on behalf of the city just the last couple of years as you recall uh the city salt uh job growth Grant fund dollar probably dating back to when um Ryan was was the airport director and a lot of it um of the focus at that time was tied to job creation and uh since then um you know we've looked at that and looked at different Industries and stuff that would make uh the defusion Springs Airport attractive to these types of companies and we're seeing a real interest U from the Florida Department of Commerce you know that's where uh James on our team came from overseeing the job growth Grant fund application we see additional funds uh that are being uh included in the state funding plan that's being discussed in Tallahassee now to go towards these types of projects um we've kept uh city manager um in in the loop on on those conversations that we've been having with with the Department of Commerce and their focus on the types of jobs that James described earlier so uh we're seeing a real interest uh come about there um as as councilwoman heavin had asked about you know having that you know the concrete uh economic data is is key um Dr Scott G on our team serves as the economic advisor has been focused on um coming up with those numbers that would be um something that that Triumph would support been working with Dr Rick Harper a lot on that um produce you know he runs um all of these applications through that economic uh analysis and um I think we're getting in a in a better position there so uh we appreciate the commitment uh from the city council uh to seeing the expansion of the airport out there uh the work that Kobe's done to pull all this information together you know a lot of moving parts so um you know we continue to impress upon those that are they looking to invest in the airport Jennifer and I had um an opportunity to have coffee with Congressman Neil Dunn on Tuesday morning you know he's got a community funding project request in for the uh for the apron 1.1 million if you know if Congress can pass a a budget you know they continue to kind of kick it down the road with continuing resolutions pushing a you know government shutdown but there's funding in there now um he he's very supportive of the airport and is offered to you know if we needed to submit another request uh for a community funding project he would be uh supportive of that so those are just some of the things that um that we've continued to work on as James mentioned the job growth rant fund those conversations are going extremely well what what we would like um in addition to you know the council approved um the the Draft application in November uh you know we'd like the council to reiterate their support to um to the matching dollars the the alternative funding sources that uh the Department of Commerce is seeking to to approve that project we feel like they're taking necessary uh measures right now on that application uh to get in a place to to approve it I know that it was the the Draft application was recently circulated through um FD to provide some comments so we know that there's interest in that so um I think with some of the revised numbers that we've received on construction cost um that budget that we have is going to have to be revised as well but um I I think what our our request would be is a further you know commitment uh to re reconfirm uh your you know that you're that you're committed to uh providing the match or the alternative funding sources that are needed to get this project approved we think that it's something that would put this uh City in a tremendous position uh to see that um further further expanded so and where do we stand right now with that matching money we don't know what match m going be yet yeah that's part of the know what you're what you're telling us the match will be but assuming it's within the budget numbers that yall seen this whole time that that question what's the typical match percent James would you like to J James like I said James oversaw that program and made recommendations to the governor's office so he knows the types of of projects that they approve and the matches that they're looking for I think we can make it even little easier because they're going to tell us a certain number of jobs we need to create of issues Tim is it sufficient for the council to say to move forward with the application understanding that the ultimate acceptance agre going to be dependent on what the actual terms are including B absolutely ABS I think that would be the most prudent situation I also would discourage the counsil based on deo's history your I can Channel of saying we're specifically pledging a certain dollar amount when in reality we may be wishing to use money we may have other opportunities it's also putting a public declaration that we pledging certain money we may be asking for funding sources from state federal sources elsewhere they say where's that money coming from we meant to do it this this and this or car up things don't put a number on table today just confirm but continue moving forward and bring us back that information cleanest direction will be right now with and just to give youall a little bit of of background on that process the statute for the program um 288 106 does not specify a specific match amount that's required generally they just want to know that there are other funding sources in place to be able to continue the project so they want a complete Financial picture so the governor doesn't get out there and make his big project announcement and then the project fall through they want to know that there's that there's other funding lined up up um so I think the less critical part of that is not necessarily that it's only local funding but um that is other funding that can be used and there are some restrictions with other Federal funding because of the way the program set up it's us it's utilizing some federal funds um I think if it's coming through fot or another agency like that it's completely fine but I actually spoke with the program manager on that my my replacement at the agency today and um and he was I mean I think his emphasis is getting the job numbers up and also just getting commitment from the city to be able to pick up the slack on whatever this application is not able able to fulfill um and the other thing I wanted to note again is that we may be able to raise the ask slightly so it could also be phrased in context of yall committing up to a certain amount understanding that we're going after numerous other funding sources to make up the difference there as well what's the kind of the minimum you want from us right now do you you go ahead and move forward bless them to continue with the project and bring this back what term sheet would look like along with terms of the gr accept so moved I go with you okay we have a motion and second any questions from anyone all in favor start Mr no I'm gonna preface my before I vote because I want to say first Kobe thank you for that presentation you did a great job thank you so much and this is a very complex issue to me uh and this discussion is very good there is several moving pieces and parts and sounds to me there's still a lot of uncertainties as well that's uh a lot of contingent uh upon the funding and um there's still a lot of uncertainties and variables um and if if the city had unlimited funding sources uh might make this decisions a lot easier but we don't and um I'm going to vote no only because I think any committed monies that we have that are available need to be put to Water and Sewer first prior to air anything committed at this time all we're do the motion the vote being taken applies solely to having our lobbyist pursue the Governor's job growth Grant I understand I vote okay all right I all I ni car thank you very much what that's one of them but Morgan did get the numbers um we grossed 359,000 last year in fuel sales and we netted 104 at the airport okay so any other questions before we move into the next set of Motions like to see okay so the first one I think we're looking for is to either move forward or not move forward with the Triumph sketch we provided uh and then to have Liberty Partners begin the process of amending that application so moved I have a motion second yeah questions and that's to approve it and move forward application yeah we'll begin working on that we'll work with Tim and James and them to get what they need yeah question anyone all them in favor say I no all ni Gary all right um the second part of that would be to authorize the city manager to begin seeking uh identified property acquisition so that's the two Parcels we looked at in the yellow two 5 acre Parcels at the end of hucke road is that correct Clay is that what we're looking for so moved okay and this uh bring it back to us as to what just got start looking at abely understand this is actually outside I went back and checked this outside of the original appr we gave 12 years ago to start looking sure and I will say I spoke with Morgan today about the funding this is will all come from arpa we we we hope to begin with the countri that fine but this is where we expect these things to come from that ARA and begin with the county any questions all in fav no hi hi I Carrie okay the next one is U to approve or deny the bars design Solutions Runway 927 environmental assessment task order which is in front of you motion to approve barge environmental assessment task order second all right we have a motion second questions anyone all in favor say I I no I I I I car all right the fourth one prove or deny of Airport terminal Phase 2 development project and allow staff to bring back a detailed plan it would be my understanding that we would work with our services Engineers to come back with that plan clay uh and did before we ever did any formal we want to create the project first because it's not it's it's part of your original terminal development but we're calling a phase two so we want to bring that back to you for formal that's why we're asking for motion y motion to approve phase two development project that's going to have the options with without the hanger correct I me I'm sure I think we're all leaning toward not using hanger but we can provide both that's fine okay all right any questions anyone all in favor say I I no I hi I I Carrie uh we've already covered number five and then the last thing is kind of uh we need to identify a priority ranking in which we're looking to seek these things out because it's vital that we get our J updated to the F for FAA and FD it's my understanding if it's not on that we can't do it at airport y it's not there so um at this moment I would I would think that the runway expansion would be number one the F terminal phase two would be number two um taxiway and access road hanger develop be number three and we'll put the apron rehab number four and then if there's anything left on the current list that we are not identified we would leave whatever's not been eliminated so moved what was your your fourth was the rehab of the old the old apron yes so the we spoke about right here may this right here the rehab we brought back a while back that has pretty bad condition we'd like to see fixed all right have a motion second any questions any questions all favor say I no I I hi I Gary then I mean I don't know if Council wants to make direction as on these items we talked about yeah I would like to make a motion that we proceed with the ground leases and corporate uh infrastructure corporate hanger infrastructure um hang on give me a second before before I make the motion let me let me clarify something here I know councilman Val you and I kind of discussed earlier in the meeting about running these tasks in parallel so that by the time we get to the construction phase of the the new Runway we can pull the trigger but hearing hearing from the public and certainly understand the their concerns is there a way we could phase this so that we could leave the dirt Runway open for a time and then once we're completed with the runway expansion then we proceed with with the U closure of 1836 and the pth development there I agree but there but there's a component to that it can't be a dirt Runway it's going to have to be grass or something else so we actually have to understand the cost of that I mean does it have to be or do we just leave it like it is my recommendation would be we're a long way away from closing 1836 because we're also a good amount of time away from moving forward with 9 27 perhaps the best solution to that would be understanding that you want these items all to match up and run in synchronicity letting staff come back with a timetable on what some of this could look like because it may well be that we need to do additional improvements to that dirt Runway if it is going to be kept open especially if we're planning for that to be the centralized Hub of any traffic in and out of the airport so we may need some additional information and that probably requires our Engineers to be brought into that discussion so I'd like to give Kobe a chance Mr Barker a chance to talk to barge about what that overall process would be I don't know that we need direction the board's already told us before what you want us to do because also part of that study they could look at some uh sites that wouldn't be impacted by that Runway remaining and again what we just said that we wanted the leasing option to be available at that time we can take commitments 6 months eight months in advance so we can begin to generate Revenue we just as long as we're thinking about it and actually have a plan in place and an actual designs in place but if we don't even have the designs in place we can't we can't do anything I I guess I would I would like to see maybe maybe again I'm not heating council's advice here but I would like to see a memorialized vote that that is the desire of the council to move in that direction even if even if we're not um doing anything for a while I I do think it's important that the council Express that that is the desire if if everyone so chooses to move in that direction I know we've talked about it for at least the last two special airport meetings prior to this and we've never voted on it but I I I just feel it's important that we we give a vote on it I think then do it this way please T um make the motion to task staff and the engineer to come back with a plan to maximize hanger had rental sites that would be private constructed hangers um using the area that is in the north south current north south Runway and adjacent there too to have us bring you back that plan I mean we've seen markups But to task us with doing that so you can then approve something out of that right now you're approving The Ether and we're gonna have to come back multiple times and we're not told to do it now so move we looking at shovel ready sites level dep it depends that's what we need to talk to our Engineers about we would think a um pad ready sight's one thing we would see sites that have apron or taxiways to them or another um you'd want the ground relatively flat but when you say full shovel ready that could imply Power Water MTI sewer stub outs also so we need to be clear what we're going to provide and what we're not probably also need some Fe cost feasibility on what we're going to charge and this is ma suggest that that's a good idea you've got but why not look at both the options of maximizing The Hanger availabil pads and also of retaining the north south Runway you're going to have to put a taxi way out there to the hangers anyway if you have a grass strip you're going to have an additional Advantage flight schools would use it uh light aircraft will use it it'll free up a lot of your busy traffic on the main the main Runway I I think he's he's suggesting the same thing well yeah but he said to maximize the the the profit from the land lease to maximize the Avail PS right yeah well yeah you can put pads all over the place but you're going to have to have taxi ways to reach them you could have the runway and the taxi way and your maximum space so if if you'd include the possibility of retaining the runway with that option of maximizing your your pad spaceil wants an option to retain the runway we would need to know that retaining the runway we need to be clear's asking for a retained and improv Runway or just what's out there right now it's current point we benefit on that yeah we could just bring some back the the the um the what Mr earlier is the one with all the hanger pads I got a big huge post from officer of that that's not a part of the Alp though it's not it was something else so correct yeah that's it keeps the runway while doing the hanger pads we'll bring multiple options do will bring that one along with getting rid of the runway we'll bring everything you got we're not just G to get rid of something because not not to over complicate it but again as I've walked that area at the end of the north south Runway to to the South and I I firmly believe that there's an option a third option here which is to shift that north south Runway over to the East and and basically the drawing you're talking about flip-flopping so that there there would be an opportunity for a new north south Runway to the east of where it is now because of the way it it falls off in that direction then we have all of our hangers to the west and then you still have that option of of that north south Runway we bring three there's three options love to see that be able to happen yeah to me that's that's the bring us back the options and and just keep that door open for now so are you ahead I'll amend my second he originally motion second any other question I think this is the best way to go for now uh all in favor to say I no i i i two only two things uh the last one the office space I think we got kind of Direction on that just to do an assessment once we move a new building then we'll bring that back um and then last one is the is the bid I don't know if we want to go through that we how how you want to handle that well I guess my question is Clay if we halt this process does that then mean we have to go back out again or can we kind of keep this on life support so that we're not going back out for a bid again I think it'll be helpful for us to sit back down with the proposer based on the information Direction given here tonight talk about the time frame and see what that looks like they may well tell us they can't hold rates as long as we're going to need or otherwise but let us go back to them we bring this to yeah I don't think it makes sense to kill it and start all over but I certainly don't think we can Mo life support is the only option fantastic job K that's it fantas I think mayor I think wanted to say something yes I just wanted to comment on um the long-term value and the aspects of planning here um one of the really interesting things about Northwest Florida is we are Aviation we have a massive Aviation cluster and and what's even more interesting is there's two aspects to the airport one of the I just got a text from a developer in the area who has a plane out there who wants to bring his bigger plane in and uh he's currently overseas playing Polo right so so there there that's the entertainment that's the visitor part of of the airport here but the industrial aspect it's you know egund is growing its footprint from a Personnel standpoint massively over the next 10 years and those folks that come through here they're part of our community and they ultimately many of them want to stay here providing a path to them and having the opportunity to grow that industry that aviation industry in the city of defc Springs I think is very wise and and pragmatic of you to continue planning this out so I just wanted to say when it comes down to the return on investment and what does the city get out of it in the future not only uh is it a great um goal to maintain an airport that operates in the black and generates Revenue to the city and and runs well but the the um the sort of soft your things that surrounded are now you have an opportunity to keep part of your community here afterwards that retires from the military and has those Aviation skills to offer them those jobs so I just wanted to to to give you those things to think about and and thank you for the planning that everybody asks we do so thank you thank you appreciate we thank you Liberty partner thank you barge greatly appreciate you having us put this together any other business will we no mayor I want to reiterate what you just said there's a lot of work went into this um there's a lot of work continuing to go into it um conversations barge has been great to work with we had your ey has been very helpful and we've talked about this today fact is several hours ago so Liberty Partners everybody has worked real hard on this so this is a lot a lot of work goes into this so um we appreciate everybody's patience and I think it's a very worthwhile Venture all right thank you oh just a moment I did want to say I'm concerned at something that was said might cause some confusion uh that FAA does not fund sewer and water and neither does do so it's really important for the citizens to understand that this this funding is coming from you know Federal sources fdot uh and and grants and other programs and the city's number one priority is water and sewer yes and the things that have been done at this Airport have kept money in water and sewer because we're mitigating the losses are already there so it's very important I don't want I don't want there to be confusion that that funds are being diverted to the airport from water and sewer water and sewers is are number one priority FAA does not fund Water and Sewer so again that's very important I don't want that to become a source of misinformation so yeah yep all right any oh heads clear all right we'll call it to Jour okay all right m