##VIDEO ID:SUs3mZs31lQ## well [Music] what little all right this off Amy's going to step right back in off off worked out pretty good last budg had to leave you got out early may I see what you did I see what you did I actually had to ADM a thing and I had cold food in the back of my and uh not that it was in ice chest but they were waiting on it I'll be done no no 7:30 right Micha you did there and still didn't cover cover uhuh hey Jesse can you turn on the TV in front of the DI yeah yes thank you all right we'll call this uh budget Workshop meeting meeting budget Workshop order today is Monday August the 19th 20124 and I'll just toss it right to you KOB okay thank you thank you mayor um so I think last time we have pretty much wrapped up the general fund um other than the cemetery is was later on we can either jump to the cemetery first or go straight to the Enterprise funds I know that's where kind of we were gonna start at was with the Enterprise fund so um if no objection we'll start with water and go go that way mayor can I just yeah go uh can we recap uh something on that that was said and the general fund I kind of segregated out the General Revenue so I think one of the things we had mentioned um at our last meeting uh was one of my comments basically which is the transfers in m so I segregated the $21 million um and just so everybody is on the same page what I did was I backed out from the revenues Old City Hall which is going to be a one-time income less grants less impact fees which could only be used for police or fire uh insurance reimbursements which basically if we filed a claim and lost something then more than likely we're going to replace whatever it is that we lost less prior year reserves Enterprise transfers utility tax transfers admin fees for utility and uh a few revenues for lakefest that was $14.2 Million which leaves us basically $7.3 million to run the general fund um and I look just at base salaries and base salaries without the request of me asking for a finance position and the request for public works that's 7.6 million so that's what I was saying that we were starting at a deficit before we even started so I just want us all to think about that while we're having those uh the other discussions on why we're transferring all these funds into the general fund thanks okay so in water um obviously water has its own revenues and again one of the biggest uh you know changes you're going to see in revenues this year in ter in water and sewer is that water capacity fee 25% and a water capacity fee 75% so ordinance the ordinance allows us to take that 25% operating and to cook it into um the operating expenses um that's what they've been doing I thought it more appropriate to put that in as online item to see what I don't want to take the money and just disperse it into the account um and buying paper clips and office supplies when if we have the revenue we can use it on projects and so if we get to the point where that money needs to be put in we can but the reason these are so large so much larger is into planning this year ask what is anticipated Development coming next year that you you anticipate to receive capacity fees for he gave us the numbers we took 75% of his number and then busted it up a so this isn't even the whole amount he anticipates to get so that that's really your largest thing there but it has an Associated expense right just see these two line here mayor or Kobe so the water capacity fee from new developments are those two line items correct that's not the water revenues from our customer corre okay yeah and so again as we go through the water dep budget um every Dollar's got a use we didn't just stick money in here just to stick money in there and so if there's any questions about the projects that are in this year um any questions about the equipment the tower base as it kind of went over we want to transition to a new software in terms of for the water meters and registers and as we approved those meters the other night at council meeting like I said these are all these all work with that system so we don't have to replace none of that money we've already spent it's so it's all working toward the goal of getting new meters in the whole system and so if there's any particular questions about water and again we do get to the transfers you'll see the transfer right here at 1779 that is a reduction from last year but we did we do have transfers this year from sewer and gas that we did not have last year Kobe how how much can you go to the top to Personnel or all the Personnel expenditures moved over to this fund or are they staying okay they are right there so this is only water employees that's right correct okay Mr Mayor yeah go ahead Kobe can you explain the uh line item for Professional Services on water and then also uh drug testing when we have employees screening in HR and the debt collection fee of 35,000 yes so Professional Services that that was SP their last year we let it again because there's going to be certain it could be certain projects we ran into this particular the sewer line here at Old City Hall now that we're selling Old City Hall of course we're going to sell the property and to get the money back and sale but that was an unanticipated project that came up that isn't a part of a large project that's about $77,000 that we needed to pay for and then get the money back later so that's why this is in here for those one-off projects that we can most likely anticipate coming especially um when you see the r&m system some of those are replacing a force main from lift station one down Bruce Avenue so that's kind of going to need engineering if Jacob doesn't do it through our contract there's some other small projects in that that may need engineering as well so that's one of that line it there there one off okay lineing Professional Service top one 37 on the sheet your next question was uh well we've got $250 in drug testing but on HR uh tab we've got uh I want to say it's like $4,000 for employee screenings yeah so the screenings are for um like when they hire people we do their background checks and stuff and we have drug testings on that but the Enterprise funds pay for their own their own drug testing all that we wanted Enterprise funds to pay for everything that's associated with Enterprise fund we don't want the general fund and general Services paying for those charge for service departments so that's why that separated out so every general fund Department should no longer have drug testing in it it should be put into the HR budget okay and then on the bad debt collection fee I thought we were Outsourcing that to a third party and just collecting a percentage on that so let I'll let Danielle speak on that one so they've been running that through a revenue and making credit I mean a debit instead of credit any bad debt that you write off you should have an expense to that you should write the expense off collec any money against that somebody come picks up that old account at credit bureau then that's the money that should be in R so if you look go up to see over there in 2122 you got a credit 27 84 which this is acting the opposite it's not Tre Credit Credit so that would be the opposite of what you want and all okay I went through and looked at how much been written off L okay and then um I mentioned I mentioned this to you earlier but you know dues and subscriptions of $111,000 do is that absolutely necessary because I know we we actually contract out to Jacobs for a lot of our operators so do what is that going to be necessary for so that so the dues and subscriptions um thing there were a number of um annual fees that have been put have been charged into operating the operating supply line item operating expense line it so Daniel and I more appropriate to put those in dues and subscriptions which are annual recurring fees particularly in water um we have run through Flor water which is $4,000 a year we do we do typically get that reimbursed to the state but in the case that we do not we have to pay it so that's one of them um but that that's the increase from that that was a net change from most mostly from operating supply for expenses that were being booked and what Danielle felt was a wrong account okay okay thank you Mr Mayor Mr Beer bomb had asked do we have a third party Collective for bad debt I didn't hear the answer I did hear the answer of the revenues but I didn't hear the answer do we have a third party that does that who do we who do we contract with that do you know uh I do not we signed we signed a contract like I want to say two years ago I think it was and is it a fee base like a I think it's percentage of percentage of what yeah okay yeah if you could send me please a copy of that agreement I'd like to read that and then I have another question okay um I was looking at Finance Finance has nine positions three of which are utility based and why are we not charging those people if all they do is Utility Billing why are why is the utility funds not paying for them question i' asked the same thing but that's part of your utility bill add that comes back [Music] to well I think that can be I think I would I would question that to say that's a legitimate fee that the general fund could charge but at the same time they're not doing anything general fund these those three particular Utility Billing two billing clerks and one supervisor I would say that we could support the Enterprise funds paying 100% for all three of those because that's a decision for the city to make not the Auditors or the so I really do believe we've got a legitimate reason to charge those to those Enterprise funds and that's that's almost $200,000 savings out of the general fund I I questioned that five years ago and and the explanation I was given was that they're recouping that through the admin charge as how they pass that back okay and who evaluates that admin CH there should have been a cal I okay I would have thought there probably would have been a an analysis done and then do we look at it every year do we increase that fee do we does it stay stagnant and yet our costs continue to rise because we're going to have we're going to be doing a cost of living um as long as we're looking at it and all I wasn't here so I don't know Daniel has the the cost of break down we talk about yeah of the positions that make up the Bing ad fees yeah I don't see why we could not move four Utility Billing positions to utilities which would obviously decrease your general fund salaries decrease your general fund transfers yeah and there was something else ter decrease your utility billing Fe but is there how many of them is there Daniel okay so you this is the this is a breakdown of utility billing fees so each the water gas and Sewer have Utility Billing fees along with sanitation there pay fee and so you'll see the breakdown that Danielle has done and that's where she came up with the numbers 4 to admin face okay so on the back of what was being done what how they were cating and the top is how IAL it's going to take me a little bit of time I mean I can look at these but in general but I have questions so she has done it's gonna be a different day it's not going to be right this very minute that I terms thank you covering the cost you got 100% of all four of those positions are the admin fee is covering so it it's already covering it but if you wanted to reduce that transfer you just move into to the Utility Fund and increase the Utility Fund person services so am I to understand that 875,000 I'm rounding up everything I'm going to do is I'm going to round up 875 then is what our that was last year this years on the front page on your front sheet uh I didn't agree with how they were calculating but we're only transferring in 823 so right away we got a deficit of well if you look at what they were charging out they were charging police I came up with a comprehens that you can look at these people and say yes they do work for the utility billing I didn't charge police well but police does provide uh the 24-hour call I think that the police provide that 24-hour after hour call and dispatch basically effectively for them so I I don't disagree with you know passing that that cost back to the utilities you know for the police providing that much like and and this is a great start so I don't think I even recognize that we're doing that so I just want to make sure that we are uh one of the revenue types was utility tax transfers then there's one called utility admin fee but some of those two are close to $2 million $1.89 million so help me out with what is the utility tax transfer versus utility admin transfer versus Enterprise transfer so Al together those three out of the utilities is $ 6.5 million I can give you the line are you talking about is it are you the one oh total utility taxes so utility service tax for the electric tax yeah one million oh yeah that's the percentage of ility tax that's on our water or electric companies or gas companies that that's a a tax that you have as a board put on there similar to the municipal tax so this is a tax we're charging our customers for the utility services is that correct but it's all going to the general fund why is it not staying in the Utility Fund because taxes are a part of general that that part is just like your Municipal tax I mean well to me that would have that would have been to me that would have accounted for this 8 this utility admin fee uh so how did we set that revenue for the utility admin fee is there a ordinance or a resolution or something for that transfer that well this is the calculation right but was there a ordinance or resolution I don't have prior knowledge I can go back and find out this is prior pract I mean this is practice in every municipality I know of would do this or charge all those service charge those salaries to the appropriate department and the utility tax transfer is that by ordinance or resolution it's probably it's probably by action of the council I've never seen it by ordinance if there is a resolution not tell you there's not but I'm not certain there is but it's probably by action and is it a standard fee to every customer or based on usage Bas the amount Bill total amount PID so so of my usage then so I would get charged if I look at my utility bill I'm going to see a 10% charge that's for this admin fee oh it's not particularly for the admin fee it's the tax you're going to see sales tax sales tax on Bill itself you'll see an imposed utility taxes what and is it on all three water gas and on the total bill is it not and then just like any other sales tax it goes I just hav I for dissected one of my own utility bills before but well it wouldn't be on sewer it's only on water and gas only on water and gas okay and then the electric companies charge it and they give that to us because we impose that tax on the inside the state limits so help me because we're about ready to set is it just water rates that we're ready to set and at a regular your water rates are already set so by ordinance right there is the yearly increase on the CPI um and this year I think Daniel have based the water sewer and gas on 3% your water rates increase by water gas by 3% per yeah okay okay I'm good thank you okay any any further questions in water so what uh do we reach a closure on the discussion of the three positions moving to utility are we good there that's totally up to well I mean we got to keep it again what we don't understand is if if they are being build out of the wrong department and we're then transferring back out of water it impacts the percentage that we're looking at we're trying to get down in terms of percentage now CL didn't they look at limiting uh transfers at the legislature to 10% potentially this year didn't they look at that this last year so that there's a possibility of being limited to the 10% if you have things in the wrong category it would look like we have I didn't make it correct but it would look like we had a huge amount that was moved moving versus if we have the things in the right categories then it'll clean that up it doesn't matter in terms of that right now but it could in the future be significant yeah because your billion mm fees are not calculated in your transfer not calcul your transfer and that are different two separate things so yeah I mean if Council so wanted to move those four individuals into the utility funds and bust them up a third each one you could do that and again it's going to reduce your billion admin fee to the general fund it's going to reduce general fund Ser um Personnel Services so and reduce transfers yes you're going to take those calls push it over here and reduce transfers but it's accurately allocated and with what he's saying if if they do try and move that legislation board again and we start shifting things around at the last minute and it looks like we're trying to deviate from legislation and my point was too um and I'm not talking about like what the chief's division does because to me I think that's that's an allocation that really needs to be an allocation but a utility a person who sits and does nothing but utility building all day long eight hours a day here to me that person should be moved to that Utility Fund because that's the way that's really what they're doing they're not doing General Revenue type or a general service this is a utility that they're building billing for and I don't know how I don't know what their workload is do they do 50% water billing and 50% uh natural gas or sewer I don't know what their workload is like how much yeah third probably a quarter per yeah is is sanitation part of our general fund or you got a separate F sanitation is a separate Enterprise fund but we do transfer sales tax into the general fund exess we're not which is an issue we're working through with the Auditors right now so that is if we want to have that conversation that is a lengthy lengthy conversation delve into it if y so desired well just a quick question on it but we don't collect that one they're collecting that one and then transferring or are we collecting what the sales tax no no no the the waste we're collecting or or okay we're collecting and then and then paying out to waste man all right thank so not colle we don't collect sales so I I don't I don't I don't disagree with with the concept of moving moving the employees over there if they do 100% but in my research of this budget as well as looking back at even going back all the way to 2019 we have grown that finance department so there was a legitimate probably reason for them not being just wholly subsidized directly out of the water sewer gas Enterprise funds because we over the last five years as a council have grown that finance department we didn't have the luxury even five years ago of these people only doing 100% Utility Billing they were probably pulling double due they were probably doing Utility Billing one day and they were probably doing something else on a different day and so at that point the the admin transfer as a way to recoup that cost and and distribute that cost probably made sense but I don't disagree with the fact that we're at a point now with the finance department where there are clear-cut roles but again I want to make sure that they are truly 40 hours a week 100% of the time only doing Utility Billing because if not and and they're pulling other duties then it doesn't entirely make sense to maybe move it over or we either need to adjust the admin billing fee calculation to to make sure that we're still compensating the general fund for whatever other duties they're they're doing go ahead M concern becomes supervision if we move them over supervision becomes a little muddy because we know if they're under a different department how's the finance director going to manage them is my only concern in that situation so I would actually suggest that I I'd like to put the ball back in y'all's Court you've heard our our concerns we want to clean up the water Revenue make us the recommendation in terms of should it stay there should it be by Department let us know what what you recommend Ahad okay in finan there according to the type there's two Utility Billing clerks and there's a utility billing supervisor this is no different than the people working in public works Street and the others where uh for example the superintendent his salary is split you can look here at our own budget a third a third a third uh there's also Utility Billing assistant so there's four utility so there's four I didn't even pick up on that because it didn't have utility in the title that's probably why I didn't um as the other thing is concept wise is you're saying 100% but for example the Christmas light fund there's one full-time equivalent person that works that's getting paid from Christmas lights and if you really think about it they don't do 100% uh Christmas lights Reflections you know it's maybe four months tops five if putting up and taken down lights so but yet 100%'s being charged to that fund so whatever we decide I think just we just need to be consistently the same with if we're going to charge these people which is a legitimate way to put the expenditure where it belongs then we just need to be I'm just saying we need to be consistent uh with all the with all the divisions not just you know one here one there uh but the the Christmas light Personnel whoever's in that line item needs to be reviewed too to see is 100% real accurate well I mean and again we could do that Christmas Reflections budget um that event covers itself I believe we're at a there was no transfer into that that zeroed out so if we do that then we're going to take let's say half of that person's salary and put it in a general fund right so right now that fund that that salary is being paid for bu the charges for that event you do half of it we're going have to take assume that cost in the general fund and I understand that I'm just saying we need to be consistent we can't just pick and choose how we random you you know it just looks like it's random uh I think that's where the the the fee kind of Smooths that out charge Christmas fund a fee because if we don't we should to me to me there's a distinction between the Enterprise funds of water sewer gas which are required by law to be separate versus US separating out internally the income for Christmas Reflections which is pretty much a general fund Revenue so so to me there is a there's a distinction there and again that's where where it it seemed to be a lot easier to explain all this with a general fee that gets charge back to the general fund versus trying to say well this employee gets paid out of this fund this employee gets paid out of this fund because at that point if we're going to start splitting those hairs what are you going to do about HR what are you going to do about payroll what are you going to do about all the other admin services that we as a city cover for those various Enterprise funds it gets to me you're going down a slippery slope there the Christmas fund is a special Revenue fund it is not comingled with the general fund any revenues that we bring in should be put right into that special Revenue fund there is nothing in the general fund to my knowledge that's related to the Christmas are they are they not booked into the general fund it's a special revenue account that semetary are special Revenue okay but transfer to the CET that that is a that is an internal election that we have made as a city correct that's not that's not a legal requirement whereas the Enterprise funds are legal requirement you know that you know how the state's accounting manual tells tells Finance how to do it everybody across the state has to follow that accounting manual in that chart of accounts so it doesn't differentiate between funds it doesn't say that you have to put but it gives a definition of what a special Revenue fund is and those Christmas lights is a special Revenue fund it's not a general fund I still think I still think that the admin fee is probably an easier way to do it because we we start splitting hairs on who gets paid what we're going to be doing it for virtually every every dep every Department every position whether it's the clerk whether it's uh you know the clerk that's receiving the payments we could we could charge back and and question their those payments for just about every employee I'm just ask asking for us to be consistent so whatever we decide as long as it's consistent I'm not going to have an issue my big concern is is there's a lot of things that could be cleaned up and if it is not absolutely mandatory because we've kind of right the last hour of budget and we we need to get the we know where the funds are whether the kind of categories are a little sloppy let's get them cleaned up by the next budget but I don't think we're going to get them cleaned up by the time we approve this budget and I say next budget I'm talking about so I I kind of want to go back to councilman Valley's question are we clear as mud on on the employees I think they've got a lot of feedback and I think uh I think we can expect a recommendation back I agree with that okay anything else in in water there SE again same thing you see you see a large increase in the sewer capacity fees um that to my knowledge in the past these were number last year's numbers or the current fiscal year so be or um estimates um I don't think that's the way we should go about that I think that's why I've asked planning he knows what's coming down the line he knows what to anticipate we didn't book the full amount we 75% and bust that up so that's why you see such a large increase there again if you have any questions about particular line items we have the ability to tell you what's in those line tell you what we're doing in them if if you have a question of any increase um or decrease go ahead Kobe could you please go back up to the revenue number What's the total revenue six 6.7 27 okay 820 and how much is the capacity fees of that 4.83 one okay so and if you look 4.4 mil and if if we look at the expenditures then what happens if if our projection is off base is there anything that's built into the expenditure side of that that's upwards of that number it's see it's the exact same on the expense side under Capital outlay it's the exact same amount so it's a wash yes I'm not asking about the wash I'm just saying he we're projecting it going from what $200,000 to $4 million he misspoke it's not it's not four million it's only it's only the 1. n95 plus the 665 oh I'm sorry yes okay I understand now okay yes okay misspoke is these two here how much is it my fault uh 2.66 million 2.6 okay I apologize and there's nothing at the bottom that's in the expenditure side that's our projection is way off what are we gonna not spend yeah we booked them exactly the same so whatever comes in is what we will account for yes okay yeah I didn't move I again I didn't say we're get 665,000 in the 25% operating and then bust that into the budget because if I do that what if we only get 200,000 400,000 short so I didn't I didn't want to do that because it's such a large number and such an increase more last year and since we're so close to at the 11th month and we only have one month left can you after today can you send us an up to-date where we are actual on all these actuals yeah won't be that AR before we meet again okay any particular questions on sewer so we have five employees in the sewer department but I've noticed looking at r&m Vehicles across the various different departments it seems to be kind of low for having five employees and I would assume three four or five vehicles in that department so is that is that an appropriate amount there I mean I noticed that like one year it was $579 then it was $1800 and then last year it was 15,000 so it's good that you brought it down to 10 but you know the prior years through it things have been booked in the wrong account they hav been put to the appropriate expense that number came from maintenance um that is what every Utility Fund that's what came from maintenance from the shop for me based off the work they've been doing and I think sewer I know fact they have one of their new trucks is brand new and I believe we if I'm not mistaken year before that we bought new truck so their Fleet for the five or four how many they do is fairly new okay so I don't they don't expect to have high cost and then the only other question I had was we've got r&m I'm assuming that's machine and equipment for 20,000 M and that's a significant increase from 1300 1900 and 2500 so Y what are we purchasing there well it came from maintenance so that again things were being booked into the Dr account for machine equipment versus vehicles and everything else in building so that that came from them because we have for example vron right that does all we have probably suck it out that's expensive to fix right and so um that's why that number is a lot larger because equip some of the equipment is getting older and so anticipation from maintenance department from the foreman and the superintendent okay we don't we won't purchase any equipment out of that that would only come out of the capital outl okay uh Kobe the 5210 I can't quite see maybe line 60-ish 60 right here yeah y why did we cut that in half what happened so as we spoke about having a use for every dollar last year there was 400,000 put into the Jak's operating I was UN unable to find a justification sheet for a particular use of that money yeah that money was put in with the hopes of doing something there's a lot of fun there's a lot of money left in that right now um because there wasn't staff wasn't given direction to spend the money and so a lot of these projects we bringing to y'all or pump Replacements we're spending that money and so, 400 that you're spending corre current FIS year so we reduced it because this this has coming from um information that Jacob's provided to us of a large amount of pumps and control panels that need to be replaced and stuff like that so again it has a use we didn't see a use of $400,000 in Jacob's operating okay so the issues when he and his partner came to the podium several meetings ago and brought to our attention hey let's just have this General discussion we really need to address these anything that we're going to do for them in the upcoming year are they accounted for then in that 200 that's Bud and you think so there's so for example on the spreadsheet that Kyle provided to us there was a large portion of small pumps for Lift stations that don't have a lot of flow right right and so there was that's what I mentioned other night there was seven pumps and eight control panels we got a quote it's roughly $80,000 as you can see there's a lot of money in this this we hasn't been spent so I spoke with project manager this morning Zach is working on getting that an ITB put together we'll go to legal for his Blessing on that in the hopes that we can get that out this year and purchase those those pumps this fiscal year because the money's there because those things can be replaced not super expensive and so we can knock out a lot of his list right now because of fun that's wonderful thank you to you and your staff that's wonderful to know thank you uh remembered something but I'm I'm looking for it so carry on and all any other s questions why he's do that can I ask one more yeah don't go too far that 400 you got highlighted is that what you answered to to Mr Beer bomb earlier line 50ish it's highlighted in yellow it says 400 versus 633 50 they were discussing the one below that oh r&m system again yes so staff has identified a particular use of $200,000 that line Che 200,000 again another 200,000 projects that Jacobs has identified to us you're using that now too correct gotta thank you okay for example like lift station three that we talked about we're sending the pump off to get fixed we're going to replace control panel I signed off control panel this morning G do all together that's that's not a Band-Aid but it's a fix until we get direction from the developer on what we're going to do that lift station there's other lift stations just like that there's expensive pumps out there that need to be replaced that's what that money is for just start fixing things we need but again 200,000 of that there very particular projects sewer department has identified that need to be done okay thank you I found it but it's it's in planning so when we kind of get through the Enterprise funds I can come back to it okay good on the sewer can you scroll down to Capital yep so are uh what are you spending two five six 700,000 just in the first three this here yeah line one that is to purchase um believe that is an escavator no I'm sorry that's a vron vron like I just said currently have is old has a lot of work it's older that will be transferred to transportation to clean out drainage ditches and make sure those are clean and it's also backup so identify they need to buy an aactron 140,000 of that again is sitting in a bank account that has been there it's a depreciation account that's been there so we put that in the carry forward so that's not a a new expense the money's there we carried that forward so 10,000 of that is a new expense the next line the 229 that is the portion of the effent Line Design that we be responsible for every remembers we got 300,000 from Northwest Florida Water Management District the 229,000 is a the cost to do design every l so that's that's those three lines there and what's the 600 for 665 that is the estimated um that line and the 1.9 that's the estimated capacity fees we expect to receive corre got it got it thank you okay I know this is purely cosmetic but we have sewer capacity operating 25% that's technically an operating fee so should it be up instead of in capital out and again we can do that the reason like I said last year and the year before you don't you did not see that line item is because yeah the ordinance says we can put that into your general operating expenses that's that's kind of insignificant if you're only talking $50,000 but if I I raise you from 50,000 to 665 and I bake that into your operating expenses and it doesn't come in we're going to be way Shor so that's the reason I had done that and so if if that money comes in we can then transfer that into the operating or do certain projects but if the council disagrees with that then I will not do that with it St there kind of makes it easy to read and that's that's the only reason I've done that to be able to tell okay gas um same thing gas does not have a capacity fee so you don't have to worry about that um again there line and you have a question about we should have the information for it so I know we is Randle here no okay that's why he won't he won't shoot me uh so I would like to know because we we've brought this up several times in the past uh there's 6,000 for public awareness ads and I know in the past like if you look at history there it was 3900 3100 than 7,000 and out 6,000 but my question is I know he has explained in the past that that is where we do Outreach to customers to try to get them to convert to hot water heaters and you know gas stoves and and the like but what is the actual Roi and that's something that we the the council has discussed in the past in previous budget sessions about that money what is the actual Roi so we we spend let's just assume we spend $3,100 because that's looks like what we've spent in the past out of that $3,100 how many customers did we net or how many new appliances did we actually met out of that that is you know an increase in service for this account so are we getting our money's worth out of that $6,000 or is that something that we need to say hey that $6,000 better spent on you I know I know at one point he had a desire to to run gas down 280b Connector Road and we we pulled that out of the budget I think two years ago now was it mayor so could that money be spent on something like that obviously it was $6,000 versus I think he had $100,000 in there but the question Still Remains are we getting our money out of our money is worth out of that $6,000 so what we could do is we could go back and look and see the number of customers that got rebates because that that would mean that they went on they put in a new Appliance in their home that used to be electric they put it on gas obviously we have a program in the city you go on on gas utility you get a re and so we can look and see how many people do that and then you know how much your gas bills go up accordingly you'll notice down in um line 53 G the marketing campaign those are numbers that come from Forida gas utility again you can see we only spent 16 19 when we to make the budget work I took out 7,000 because I don't know the ROI on myself and if can't see Roi I'll continue to keep taking it down down down until we do see the associated revenues with that's actually my question I had that one uh the marketing the rebate program and what was interesting is that the ad campaign and marketing I don't see why that's separate items I guess understanding what what is different there is one thing but also if we're advert we're spending 20 30 40 we're spending like 40 to and we're only selling 7,000 in rebates it seems that the rebate should be the heavy side and not the other side we're not we're not getting the rebates I don't think it's because of marketing I think it's just people aren't here to hook up yet or we haven't expanded our service enough or we don't have the larger volume users the numbers seem backwards to me well I I would Advocate that we we look at those programs and again I say we shrink them save the money and and put it to work elsewhere whether it's equipment or whether it's new lines or whatever but I've been approached over the years by people that lived in other municipalities within Florida where they had a rebate program for a gas whole home generator and they purchased that generator through that utility company and it was just a a payment on their on their gas bill and they were like I do it in a heartbeat if they offered it here so how how many of those whole home gas generators could we sell because we're in a Hurricane Alley why would we not offer a program like that yeah we have overhead lines still we don't have underground lines not gas though yeah but I mean overhead lines go out so you need it just on a normal day I mean just why do we need generator because it's Tuesday that's why we need generator matter of fact I had an hour this morning my house so you know I to me to me that's the kind of programs to your point we're obviously not seeing a whole lot of uptake on Itor paying out $7,000 on the rebate side but I think I think it's not the marketing it's what you're marketing yes yes so let's rethink it and get it to where it needs to be and and get some get some more customers yeah we can have that conversation with Florida gas utility and see about the generator like what additional programs can be added to what we already offer and and do that um we did have a conversation here a couple weeks ago with for gas utilties who was gonna have a conversation with Bas spring V Lodge about gas expansion and those developments hopefully I I'll follow up with them on that so they went we talk talked about that some different options um but yeah we can we can take a look and see about the program it's city city of Tallahasse that does the generator program okay yeah I'm not sure if mine must be different than the one you got up on the screen uh but on my line 56 in this right underneath that marketing campaign it's $320,000 yeah that one what is that inventory so we have to purchase the gas and then resell it so that is the gas that we're actually reselling to our customer correct Hogs correct how much how can you go to the top how much revenue for gas sales 1.41 and what was our actual prior year or current year to date not that one like what are we got going on right now this year I pull the current year to date but uh last fiscal year you had an actual of 1.1 84 million so we think we increased it by 300 is there a way we can pull up actuals I took the actuals we had buil through the period of time that we vot on the budget divided them by the number of month and multip them by well and where and which oh that's what you put the 1.4 correct okay we took yeah and one so you used which number well she exra she extrapolated your actual today and then could was that like through July though or was it that was prob most likely June and July but again we just exra Times by 12 I'm fine with that curious CPI increase okay any other questions on that we'll just note um line 64 last year there was and it it was budgeted in you'll see line 41 from 198 to 110 that 198 was to do gas doe replacement of all the gas meters registers that didn't happen um I think it was confusion last year when they did this What expenses come out of that budget the cost increased before they realized that and so instead of replacing all of them at one time we would like to replace half of them next fiscal year and half the next fiscal year again that way we don't come up to a large bill down the road do the whole thing again at one time and so we just took that project moved it down we want to get half of it knocked out and half next year talk to our financial advisor about the gas program not no not specifics no not yeah that's I just think be kind of interesting to see the value of it as a to sell off versus um the small returns that are going back into General that's our real return right the 200 some thousand yeah so the transfer we would make this year be 216 and last year there was no transfer yeah we're breaking even the buildup question with the analysis is at what point can we start to see real returns what's that Worth to us how long do we want to wait versus there conversations that could happen but again we have been approached and discussed about that I major neighboring franchise entity is expressed about the with all the U subdivision broke out down there now what are they do on the front of that before they actually move in do they cut any deals with the city with regard to G Freeport has no gas franchise um they were excluded because of the time in which okoa gas's original legislative area was described and drawn the City of Freeport did not have unique independent Municipal authority over utility rights that time so the legislature granted all of it to um close against they don't even get a franchise feedback we have to search that out and see what some of our competitors done been nice people because of so much new breakout but uh we're fixing to have considerable I I will say this I will tell you what okusa gas has done before and I don't know they're still doing as though they are very they very aggressively work the building permits that are issued both to the contractor and to the homeowner assigned on the property now when you're having a track builder that's really kind of their question to get it but I think it's I've commented on this in public meetings before so take got purely legal advice here but I know we say we reach out and we try to do this to people are building guys I'll say right now I'm building a house I have multiple Natural Gas Appliances I will be connected to the city system I have not received one communication nor has anyone on my team nor of any of my subcontractors none of the appliance companies no one has provided me one bit of information about how to get a rebate what it would be now I guess it's entirely possible I have the absolute most incompetent group of people ever assembled and all of them have ignored it but I don't believe that's the case and and that's not to say the city's completely dropped the ball on that but I would think one at least one of my Appliance at least one of my Subs would have mentioned hey you may want to go look at this here's a tangless water eater connected natural gas here's a generator here's an oven here's this none now I know i'vegot about it because I sit here and listen to y'all every day but but I will profess to you having lived here now I don't think there's a chance I would know one word about if I was not here at these meetings and if I had not actually heard these conversations and I've asked brand on he says no we do reach out and we do and you know it's possible gets missed and it he may well be right but and again that's anecdotal evidence but I do think it is probably a worthwhile suggestion um because better than well let me say this I I know I talked to Randle because we had to talk about the length of the gas line that runs to my house from the road just to figure out how to do that and what the directional board would look like in my cost on it I'd have thought if I'm approaching the city about that maybe you took it for granted because of who I am and that's okay but I would have thought that would been the perfect time to say hey by the way here's some rebate opportunities for you if you're hooking up I thought somebody would have given that to maybe the guy did by directional but no so I don't I don't know what to say I point out that there may be some more marketing but in Free Port o Gas Works those building permits religiously so I remember when I when I first came to the council mayor that you you were talking about how the the gas system at that time was in the red because we had lost the chicken plant and that was that was by far one of our largest largest customers I mean so it it made sense at the time that we were kind of clawing our way back from a customer perspective from that uh from that hit so my question is while while we technically didn't do any transfers last year I don't know if that is necessarily indicative of we're not earning an Roi on it or if that was just the way that the previous City man ERS and finance departments had said the council doesn't want a whole lot of transfer so we're not going to make a transfer right because that's something I've been harping on for five years I figured out the first year I was on the council that we were transferring at that time it was $1.4 Million was was to transfer from water and that original meeting we actually Whitted it down to $700,000 I remember that and and of course those those are you remember those are some grueling meetings with with Dr mcnight questioning every single line item we went line item by line item um but these transfers may not necessarily be indicative of of an Roi today or even last year so I I I do fully support councilman Valley's suggestion that we do some sort of analysis on it I tend to think that if we've got a utility it is it is a asset to this city to continue that utility to to to hand it over to someone like Oka gas that is a One Way transaction that we will never get back in a thousand years versus if we can at the advice of clay if we can work those building permits we can work those various activities that signal development this could end up being a tremendous asset for for the city you could also treat it like we do with power and still have a small franchise fee on it someone else can manage it get all the risk out of our lives and have a guaranteed something so again I I I prefer that if we can control we keep it as low as possible for the residents as a as a benefit um but again given that we have a a lot of needs uh an infusion certainly could be a good way to to look at this but again it's not something that's going to happen anytime real soon it's just a one time thing it's the problem it's an infusion well no you still have a franchise fee yeah but the franchise fee like for example the franchise fee on on the sanitation what what does that amount it it's it's it's minimal compared to what we were collecting in terms of Revenue just just raw Revenue right gross revenue on sanitation there's a question on that whether we really yeah 3 35,000 on the franchise fee and so I imagine on the gas would it be even less unless we did like a a 20% franchise fee no but I mean we're looking at the other one it's only 1500 over two years between the loss and the gain again maybe there is some we not seeing but that's that's I'm saying the an we did receive a million dollars on that gas so I don't know what stipulations are still hanging there because about the time you came in uh we got a might have been a little earlier but we got a million dollars over two years uh for the gas expansion from Appropriations and and then of course we had to come out here like wolves to fight our territory out you remember that yeah I was on that Zoom call you yes sir and so anyway so I sure don't want to pass it up yes ma'am of okay yes ma'am doesn't have aanch no gas thatat they want to real bad but we we work very hard to protect the legisl created a special district that is Okaloosa gas and that includes a large portion of won County certainly North and around us we're the only Standalone in I mean we have North we have M head we have out Beyond 10 Lakes North the wallwood county line 192 right that's where we drew the line that's right and then we agreed we agreed with Oak of gas when they were trying to come in on our territory to stop that they have territory North Rock Hill but we work out kind of in a relational there somewhere around the wood lawn area right uh I don't uh I think they will take anything off the highway or we will so they will take anything that is off the highway we take him with directly on theway down certain somewhere around line there there is an issue in both of our original legisl def find franchise boundar we were supposed to I think if we the best way you can read we should one should have been on the east side one should on the west side all the way up and that's not how it reads when you read so there is an overlap by halfway before rockity trust me from where it was heading we are 100 times more better off than we were so we were in danger of virtually having whatever's within our city limits and getting ready to lose that yeah where that was com they said they'd like to have plac like Gas customer of the cities and my rates have doubled yet gas rates have been falling whatever happen I have to go back to the meeting that we talked about that was a one time incident where um a register had failed and then went found it staff found there was a discrepancy and discrepancy got buil again it was one time incident the meter's been fixed register's been fixed could do because we probably already set ourselves at A corre Renewed how how long is that utility I'd have to look and see what that is I just can't remember if we settled that that customer this just reminded me because uh our employee was gone that time and so we oh we'll do it the next time and then I don't know that we ever came back to it to be honest we did that's when that's when Tom came before gas he I think he went into an explanation about how what you see on the stock market like what what's technically like a spot future is different than what we do with long-term acquisition contract because we buy we already buy predetermined set amount monthly and then when there's a over dra under we make up that difference correct and there's fees that go on top of are associated with your cost from that come for gas utility so that's why it doesn't match your Market we regulated when we set our price to our customers or is that strictly in our our perview we are not a Public Service Commission we are not part of the Public Service Commission it is within our ability to set our rates as we see fit okay that's what I need to know thank you thank you question on the uh public awareness add 6,000 and the marketing 20,000 what what what is entailed with that I what who who is who are we spending that money with it's you so the the budgets of that Gas marketing campaign though and the rebate those numbers come from ftuu and what they anticipate to spend to for the city um again I reduce the 20 we live we were 27 we reduce to 20 to do the numbers U but ftuu does that we get Bill I believe monthly or quarterly for that they handle the advertising on that so hearing what we just heard that means it's not effective so we're going to have to get with them and figure out where our money is going and again if if it isn't being used properly we're not getting Roi on it I will get rid of it the city would we have five employees in this department I mean they're they're not marketers I mean they can't Market it we we're going to have to do that and spend the money wisely we have all these new developments that are opportunities to expand our gas offerings uh but people have to know about it so we I think that's has to be tightened up for sure right there but thank you and so before I get out of the three utilities out just real quick on the transfers looking at the prior years last year it was the direction of the prior manager to not make transfers out of sewer and gas and only out of water if you go back to the year prior to that they transferred out of all three you're prior to that it was only out of water um myself and Danielle believe all three should make it should make a contribution to the general f we did that because if you're taking all you're taking all that out of water it's going to start to serer and we don't want to run into that problem again in my opinion um because consistently for the last couple months my reports from Jacob is we're at 61% capacity in water what does that mean I'll find out I'm not in I don't think anyone here is in a in a you know scared about it I don't think it's a big problem but developments come they get on City water so we've got to be prepared for what that means and what that looks like for us so we continuously transfer all our money Out of Water we're going to run into the problem we have with sewer and we don't want to do that I don't want to do that um I hope that's the same so that's why we bust them out well if if I can comment that's that's been my concern for five years has been we know there's going to have to be system improvements so the more we transfer out of water all we're really doing is number one kicking the can down the field number two we're forcing our hand on these these increases because we go off and do the rate studies the rate studies say well you're pulling all this money out so you're going to have to raise your rates when you want to do projects X Y and Z so we're to a certain extent we're kicking the can down the field I've been you know please please stop the presses and Rewind the tapes for five years because I I mayor you can attest and Clay you can ATT test I've been I've been harping on this since 2019 kobby when you go back and look through this week can you do me a favor look at uh the fund 100 it's called the Utility Fund hasn't been used since 201617 if you look at the uh audited financial statements um and look to see because I see all of a sudden it's starting to reemerge and it's like what general there is no purpose to segregate that to fund 100 thank you so that's what you were are out those utility taxes that's what they were that's so you're just moving those it's going to be a one time thing and I'll never see him again then is that what I'm understanding every year you won never see him that fun you'll never see a 100 fun again okay I knew that was wrong because I've been sitting there since 16 17 it's been talked about by the Auditors since then and I continue now it's starting to reemerge so I appreciate that Danielle thank you for all this cleanup work because it needed to be it needed to be thank you all right so good on gas guess all right we will move to sanitation there's not really a whole lot sanitation that's kind of a you know we pay our contract we get our sales tax passes through it comes back but if there's any particular questions on the estimates or revenues Danielle or believe Mr ainson can provide some insight mayor sorry I I bring bring this up every year we we have a interlocal with the county that pays us a certain number per can and that number is actually $2 less than what Paxon and Freeport kit so and if if I remember correctly the the time to negotiate that is always in July because it's it's it's like a 90day notice that we have to give if we want to modify that cancel franchise be amended by consum of parties the interal excuse me can be amended by consuma of parties anytime there $149 okay I let I'll let clay correct but we had spoke about this we wanted to wait until Tim and Danielle had the conversation with the Auditors about sanitation before we went to the county to discuss correct we we met with the Auditors fact we had a meeting with auditor last week discussing those issues U it is the recommendation that that that conversation be Revisited and a request for that dollar 49 to be brought up as it relates to residential service because as consistent purpose of the small County Sur which by the way was previously agreed to by the county in 2019 between city manager administrator but for whatever reason going back well you can you canest just the physical thing is just amazing to me the county i' imagine they probably do it for household not for can like we do and you know and I I ride through the county quite a bit and I see cans and cans and bags all in one household repeatedly repeatedly and then we got these nice clean cans and or maybe one or two but they're not working bags they're not taking junk up offside the road I mean just this the amount of time that takes service US versus accounting is immensely different and I think and they're getting more they will not well but but when we adopted the waste management contract it was the will of the council then when we adopted that Waste Management contract that it be adjusted then which which I I squarely lay on previous City Manager for not for not falling through on that but again it gets brought up every year hey there was something little trickery thing there because they were saying things like well it's been made up in something in our half cent sales tax [Music] getting it back somewhere else you know it never made sense ma'am there is a longstanding clear back to 1994 because I started pulling it because the county is currently going out to bid for Waste Management Services I would highly recommend that we as a council have a special Workshop Just For This and like in the very near future hopefully so we can discuss it and when they go go out to bid if we are going to do something between them and us like what's happening now maybe we can start to uh well and to be to be clear that that's certainly fine but I want to be clear this has nothing to do with their contract this has to do with the small County sir tax which is the sales tax it's the one cent sales tax that is levied by the county but that's the money that's going back and forth between comeing here then we send it to them then they send us the correct at the end of the year so we got figure out the issue is though that they are underpaying what the sales tax specifically is listed the sales tax was enacted would be to provide all residents of w County with residential garage collection doesn't speak to commercial doesn't speak to recycling bulk item yard ways but it says we're there to provide that now we may provide additional service we may provide additional cans things like that and we can charge and Bill like we always have like any other m but if there's a base rate to be paid for collection that amount whatever that should be should be treated or provided commensally is the position the auditor has discussed with us and we agree it's what was previously agreed to but for whatever reason never got updated so as a base just base threshold discussion there should be the it's $149 less than where it is everywhere else in the camp that's what has to be level there's about eight other issues that we need to get into special meeting will be very good for that but I want us to be clear threshold discussion we're a $149 under where everybody else is and that never got updated that needs to be updated now be clear the total amount of money transferred from the small County Ser tax is not just for Sol and want there to be a be some confusion there it could be but it is not automatic so if for whatever reason the small County sir tax only collected X number of dollars and that amount was less than the cost of residential collection services and that's all that gets transferred but after you pay that top level residential collection threshold there is then the formula which is pro formula state statute for the division of tax we spend that tax consistent with the collection but we as municipality are entitled an State formula to a certain percentage that where we have had a problem Danielle and I talked about this at link is it appears there's been challenges from the city's Financial staff in the past to reconcile this $1.9 million transfer and how that is being calculated under the state formula inde dependent of the residential collection rate so I think from our person line threshold we need commensurate residential rate needs to be covered because that's the purpose of the sales tax so but yes you are correct there are multiple issues involved there but I want to be clear there is one simple issue and that is just the imperity to all other residential collections U Danielle can you tell me the small county S tax that he's talking about what line item that is in this Revenue 2711 line 12 to watch coming in it's going out uh that's on a piece of paper but I think there's like he said there's a lot of things that we need to discuss I think as a council I would like a workshop if not I can bring it back on a regular agenda meeting but trust me I think it's going to take us longer than just a regular board meeting for all these different discuss pieces of parts I I fully support the workshop as well because I I brought it up a couple months ago that we needed to discuss a bulky yard pickup as well m and let me say when y'all have that Workshop be prepared there needs to be a conversation that finance and I'm gonna go ahead and take up for Danielle here because if I don't she's gonna reach over and stab me in the throat after this conversation with our auditor and I'm not joking there's been a longstanding discussion of how the city bills and for what it bills its customers for garbage the time to resolve how that was handled was when we went from doing it ourself to having a contract unfortunately while I think Council viewed retaining yard waste pickup because we already had the knuckle boom truck we already had staff as a relatively simple we won't hire you to do it Waste Management we'll do it ourselves and it was from practice stand Point apparently at the time having looked back's looked at this for me and I want to be clear that's why I'm taking up for her a little bit because she confirmed unfortunately that nobody ever actually bothered to break out our actual cost of commercial cost of extra garbage cans cost of yard waste and provide us this itemized accounting prior Sanitation Services across the board the time to do that would have been when that happened but since we apparently retained the yard waste pick up the decision was made all we don't worry about it the council said they want to keep doing yard waste so they just decided not to give us the more detailed analysis that was asked for by Mr mcnight in a council meeting I can't find a motion to that effect but it was definitely discussed before we go out and hire somebody we need to know what our true cost is to do this that never got done from what we can tell so please be aware you may ask that question we need to know Finance doesn't have it they never got it so did we sign a longterm contract with this and and how long is it and can we break it well we have a we have a fiveyear contract of Waste Management that expires because I heard mite's name 2020 or 2021 maybe 21 21 is when it expired or when we signed that's when we first went into it and we went in till 26 so now would be the time to figure out what we're going to do if it expires naturally in a 5year period before we reene automatically let it renew well the council was very clear and its entry into that contract that time that it will be brought up and would not be allowed to automatically it will not be allowed to automatically without the council having got discussion what time what time frame please do we have to give them as notice if we want to cancel me a moment question keep talking I just don't like Mr Beer bomb said I don't want that to expire without the opportunity to fix this mistake I'm curious curious what you mean by mistake well I just mean be uh to make it at least a break even if not a profitable that to do with Waste Management I don't know I mean I'm telling you the issue is we are entitled to a imperity payment for the cost of Residential Services whether waste management was charging us $8 or not doesn't change the fact that everybody in the County supposed to get the same thing towards the residential service we're a $149 short because our city manager at one point in time went to the county and said we need to get brought up to par to the 999 versus 850 where at short answer was the answer was sure no problem we'll bring it back we'll get it updated and it never came back that was Mel and Deborah and and the council was emphatic about the council was emphatic about the the automatic renewal the council was emphatic about it being a a wash and I and I want to say at the time Mr councilman Graham was very uh emphatic about the the ability of all of the employees to either transfer to waste management or that we were raining them so that's what spurred keeping the bulk trash pickup keeping the knuckle boom trucks but it was presented to the to the council as a whole at that time that this would be a break even proposition with the council actually receiving um Revenue in in terms of additional Revenue in terms of the franchise fee as well as all the commercial because that that kind of on the same lines of what you're thinking with the gas system we basically outsourced it we didn't take any of the responsibility but we were still bringing in the franchise fee and then any of the commercial fees we were we were we were basically at that point bringing the sanitation out of the red and into the black and again Mel never followed through on it Deborah never followed through on it that's that's squarely where the where the blame lies and and and regardless of that now it's up to us to fix it so what I'm saying is I want to see for myself that we're breaking even if that's the if that's the goal of having this inhouse you know Outsourcing it we need to make sure that we're not running in the hole because that this is where our money's being lost to uh when it could be put to a different use well it's break even now but it's because we're we're funding it through I can't see that that's why I'm saying I just I mean it's total revenue total expenses right there well that's just the budget that's just made up you know where's what's the actuals actually doing how much are we transferring in and out the actual look like they break even as well at least for for this year let let me perhaps recontextualize the conversation that may be more important we discuss this with the AIT because of the additional uses for small count CTI Economic Development being the first in line roads and bridges go the second um second maybe but either way um with that being the case the question should be is there money should there be more money reimbursed at a top level before we get to the pro the Prat distribution of the tax that would allow additional monies not to be put solely toward sanitation so you may be the situation is you may be breaking even now but you may should be enti be entitled to more money which will allow you to divert some of the sales tax money to another use thank you so yeah we will be breaking even the way it's going because we're allocating it but this was an argument we have with the auditor the auditor didn't understand small C Sur tax was not solely for garbage so should it only go to garbage the answer is what is but that's not necessarily all it should go to so you're going to see some recommendations in this all you're transferring 1.8 million out of this fund over to General Revenue 1.8 going over there I mean I we are definitely breaking even transfering 1.8 why would I take why would I take 1.8 out of this fund to to fund the general fund that's what we're doing that is understand but there's nothing in this one to improve on or develop that's what's left over after we pay for everything in which can be used for roads and Bridge and economic development and the other stuff you fund your ed8 obligation you could fund we should you were looking up I'm still I'm still I'm trying to find a signed contract I've got too many drafts thank you I get the sign one we be okay gas back on the Lo boom I know for private residents we don't get a dime for those Services right what about to the commercial well well we Bill our customers on all of their bills so we technically are getting okay well I that we don't build residential customers their first came talking [Music] about well no we're entitled we're en no we're entitled to that by the statut and that's where you're going to see some issues of all comments so are we are we okay uh are we gonna ask Kobe to set a special workshop for us to discuss sanitation outside of this meeting yeah so can you make that happen for us Co thank you and is there any deadline in terms of being able to execute that with the county it doesn't impact their budget does it could could does it get diverted from them to the state I mean who there is it being collected even oh it's being well it's a sales tax every penny of sales tax comes to that gets collected comes in because it's a small County it's a discretionary local tax so that one cent gets paid State doesn't get to take it away from so when need to have this before they finalize and well in advance of them well let me say this whether you're able to get it done before the budget or not it needs to happen um it can be corrected within a budget year here a very simple analysis you try $149 per residence is what we're talking about in the grand scheme of things it's not going to be a large sum of money but it starts to balance out every year after year after year this is the second time we're seeing this same issue C how we're not getting the full we haven't gotten the full amount for the first years of the CRA have they for the CRA hasn't received it from the county first two years you w't that was for yeah CRA opted CRA opted not to pursue that money but your didn't give them a TI either the county should have applied for that though it was the County's responsibility to to fill out that Tiff and submit it and they did get out it's not their responsibility to ask the property for the I'm not I I don't know that's an accurate reflection of what occurred back then at that point in time but either way yeah the CRA vote the C La not to pursue the additional money after they received the payout of the unpaid funds okay I work on setting that setting that up um yeah U so maybe why CL here before he Lees and know he's gota go so I do apologize Paxton city council meeting is relocated from tomorrow night because of the required election to tonight at 6 so I do have a drive order it was it was signed in 2021 I'm I'm looking for the signed version of it if you got it please hold it to me I've got too many drafts here so while he's here for the next few minutes what's what's jump to see reason being because there were some questions people coun want to talk about that so I'm G let him give his quick spill on what we've kind of discussed and what um what the council would like to know about the process um for they want to do so GL you've heard there what they're back and forth so what is your in some Council if you want to adjust the CRA budget at this time by either adjusting the actual um percentage that is an ordinance both are all are ordinance updates you going have to go through the ordinance process that will take two meetings um I will need that to be on the very next council meeting with direction to have that as a first reading I need to know exactly what the changes are so that we can present those to you as first reading then we'll have to have this required advertising for second reading we would be able to adopt that before the end of the budget year however because the ordinance effective date can be no later than the the actual adoption date of the ordinance it cannot be sooner than that um you are likely at this point time by the last meeting in September I do not necessarily think you're going to be able to get the Dr 420s updated to reflect out of that period of time um especially not on the mapping issue so we can we can pass an ordinance but you can't get the forms in the state extending your budget process outside the set dates um that being said can you reduce the percentage you can but that didn't notice Provisions to the county to allow them to take certain action and I don't know that any of that can happen within the budget window you have this year I we will do whatever this Council asked to try to make that happen and if you direct us to we'll be on the phone with do first thing in the morning to see how far awareness of what we're doing um because what we do will allow their opportunity to participate in relative form to our plan based on what we're seeing any update you do is going to require an ordinance update and that will require first and second R based on what y'all have proposed I can't give you a clean way to do it by resolution that would comply with State Statute when that Tiff operates is it on calendar year it is based on the fiscal so 101 to 930 okay Tiff is it runs the same as our av because it matches your dr420 I I lik what Tony had suggested the other night but U about the south end of the city but um what what kind of Revenue or TI money would we probably be thinking about I is it worth getting all stretched out over amount of money or should we have it set so the next year we're ready to roll the The Proposal Mr Valley suggested the area south of Interstate 10 resulted in approximately $99,000 amount that would be brought from the um from the CRA back to the city it would result in the for of 66,000 of County funds to the CR so it will be a net 150 loss to the CRA and a $99,000 savings to the city and the and the one that I brought up that was fund them at 50% what what are the numbers for that I do not have that math but you would so you go from 95 to 45 we can break you would go 93 is the full amount so about 6 so you'd be looking at about 600,000 of savings that would come back to the city no not that much our total amount this year would be 913 9913 was the total be happy that it's going to be somewhere around 500,000 take they would keep 500,000 she gave me the wrong line I was looking a 1.3 a 9450 we get back roughly 400,000 we give up back 400,000 and then the um County would turn back about 300,000 yes so it would be a net $1.2 million deficit to the CRA off their operating budget we did that this year and oh sorry oh sorry so I understand the the net effect right and what what we're trying to accomplish there by by excluding everything South but I think that for long-term stability and basically to kind of keep it simple I think we should approach this from just a percent reduction standpoint instead of excluding areas like south of I 10 I think it I think that provides for more predictable income both for us as well as the uh the C if if we just do a percent reduction which you know I um I'm in favor I'm not in favor of a 50% reduction because I I do believe that the CRA has has a positive and good purpose I do believe that the CRA is just to the point like I can remember when when the CRA started and they literally had zero funds in in the in the account and then I remember when they finally had enough that they could actually go out and actually hire a a director so to kind of kneecap them now I think would be counterproductive to to the CRA so with that being said I would support a reduction to either 80 or 85% would be would be my suggestion that would net us somewhere right around $150 $200,000 back into our coffers immediately that we could use and it would also provide them with with a long-term predictability I also agree with councilman Valley that if we're going to do this we should not be breaking the piggy bank and then coming back to it every year after that this should be kind of a one-time deal so clay I don't know if there's any uh any measures that we can take as a council to kind of paint ourselves into a corner because I I do believe that if we're going to do this it needs to be a one-time deal for the for the remaining life of of the CRA because we do need to give the CRA uh an opportunity to use those funds as was defined in the plan and the original ordinance you can't future councils completely you would have to make a part of the ordinance some type of super majority unanimous or other extraordinary action acquired by the council to further amend if that was this council's desire but you can't make it a one and done it's always going to be discretion whoever sits to this board to amend ordinances within the scope of rules or then I I would support a 4-1 vote I don't I don't support a 50 vote but I would support a 4-1 vote to amend it um I think if you the reason for this area south of 10 I think is I think everyone understands that area really has been agricultural land for the most part which consequently is why you see the biggest increase in value because gone from you know virtually nothing because agriculture gets uh some good uh some good treatment in terms of the appraisal value and so the increases are dramatic um if we're going to do that I I would probably be leaning towards the 80% rather than the 85 right now we'll be talking about an 11% reduction if we took out everything out 10 um but that would actually increase over time if you actually Let It Go naturally um so actually limiting the 15 now would would be more painful to them for the first year year and a half even the first two years but after that we would all be benefiting uh more from the south end growth and so they're actually it actually be cut a little bit less with the 85 than just taking out South so I'm open to either um I am open to that but again it was imp implemented for a purpose there's a reason we don't sit on that board a lot of a lot of cities do sit on their CRA boards um but having a separate board pulls a lot of the politics out of it allows them flexibility uh and I think that's a good thing um I do think that we also need to have a workshop to provide them with some guidance in terms of things that the council would like to see uh implemented I think the projects that everyone here has projects i''d like to see happen I think they should be part of discussion that we have with the CRX but I as long as there is a limit I don't want this turned into just sticking the nose Under the Tent and then next thing you know you know we got a camel on the tent and and there's no CRA left to even work with I mean they have to be able to function and I think they should be given the opportunity but I'm open to either of the two um if if there's other comments and they want to provide guidance to our counselor and and the city manager for the next meeting I would yeah and you can step up down if you want while he's coming up to answer your franchise question it is not an automatic renewal October 1 2021 through September 30 2026 it may be renewed for additional fiveyear terms only upon mutual agreement of both parties we intentionally did I didn't think we had an automatic renewal here but I want to make sure I gave you the language in this case the franchisee if they want to has to give us notice 180 days before September 30th 2026 so back it up 6 months from September end of March 2026 they have to give us notice they would like to Ren if that is the case we have 60 days from the receive of their notice to tell them whether we want to enter into negotiations to renew upon the same terms and conditions or upon other mutually acceptable and agreeable terms but there is not an automatic and what do we have to do if we want to terminate before that naturally expires so you have to find them in violation of the franchise um they are given a fiveyear franchise unless they violate it we have to give them notice of our intent to terminate the franchise based upon the violation of a provision of the franchise and then their failure to cure okay can you just forward me a copy will you send that out to everybody so they have it just you know based on what I've learned because we I went and looked at notice of started looking at CRA back in 2013 and I've spoke with many of them you know that uh and very few of them most all of them have just a small portion of their City question okay if we could because I do have to go ahead I'm sorry goad it it was on the uh CRA you said there's two things that we have to do for ordinance that you would have to do so I didn't first and second readings two reading but what two okay just two readings but what do we have to actually do I just need from you what you want in the ordinance and y'all if y'all discussed it here tonight and everybody has General consensus I'll go ahead and prepare it and have it back for the next meeting the first reading with the advertisement I don't know that we're actually going to hit well our next meeting is not Monday but Monday week no justay all right so we won't be a so we won't be able hit this advertis so first reading will be the first week of September so your earliest adoption date is the last meeting in September the tip 420 where it says we'll fund 95% that has to be changed by ordinance in order to do the reduction of correct and that's do something tomorrow morning you said you'll start doing whatever we'll call Dr and ask if there's any way that can be done I just don't know that they're going to tell us it's feasible this year and either way whatever is decided as far as whether we to Mr Valley's proposal or a percentage either way it could be done by ordinance okay yeah that's how we have to do it because both are included within our ordinance since it's in our ordinance that's what we have to change but it won't but it may not be this year we may just have it implemented starting next year depending on the cycle oh so it won't happen I'm gonna call do I mean look we'll get on the phone with do tomorrow and see if there is any way if an ordinance is adopted in our last meeting in September that changes the Tiff there's any way for us to update that youve already had those budget we'll already have our budget adopted before the ordinance and if that's the case then it might be a mute point so that's an important part of this discussion because for me you know already that include well well let me say this I I do want to be clear about this one point that I will go the only chance and I'm telling you I do not based on where our budget meetings are I don't think Dr is going to allow us to submit new budget documents both based on an unadopted ordinance with an effective date after our last budget meeting that is my belief even though it's a reduction even though it's a reduction because the number has to be set by ordinance that ordinance won't be adopted when we adopt our official budget the per and it wouldn't be because why because what's the two meeting dates give us what's our second budget what's our official adoption and it only takes the 23rd is the real one so the first one's compliment so the 20 so the 23rd I know but first one's complimentary not no it's the 20 no so the problem is your budget meeting is the 20th so your budget your a budget adoption would occur before your ordinance adoption changing the percentage and I'm afraid Dr is g to say we can't approve a budget that has a number built in that may or may not get adopted no matter how strongly I tell them that I can't predict what the council would do but all of that being said if we try to change the service area because the parcels have already been assessed we're everybody is going to have a problem do the county everybody the property appraiser the tax collector it is going to be changing the area this late that's going to be a Monumental move the percentage we will do everything we can if that's what this council's desire is to do it but that being said just logistically because your council meeting is coming up Monday night we can't have we can't hit the paper today I would have had to have hit the paper an hour and 42 minutes ago it can be a different paper though right doesn't have to be theun carold right but but I still don't have enough days it's the days that are the problem it's the total number of days of advertising yeah I'm not going to be able to get two readings within the required days to get you this in the first meeting in September that's the challenge that's what we find so but I would say very strongly this is what you want to do let's go ahead and do it and set that the effective date of that ordinance will go into effect from there with the intended state of the effect for the next budget year in dr420 sems my my and because I brought this up I just want to say one thing my my point wasn't for us to do it every single year my my goal was to get us out of the deficit for this budget cycle that we're planning so I can see that we're uh close to four I'm rounding up 400,000 in the hole before we even get started and that was without operating or Capital expenses that was just revenues minus Personnel cost and we're already 400,000 in the hole it was just a way for me to get us back to zero so we weren't running in the deficit so I think it's a mute point from my perspective of even changing anything if it can't be done this budget cycle I was trying to save some money for the city to reallocate because I've got health safety and Welfare of the citizens that was my concern which I'm sure is all of our concerns so I think say a couple things and you can respond to this Josh but the the you know first and foremost is that uh again it's rare you ever hear a whole city is CRM uh typically the way it's set up C does the work they improve a neighborhood they improve a section of the city the values increase they benefit from it that's what they worked off of uh while we sort of targeted that south of it 10 you did absolutely zero to improve that property out there or to clean it up and so that's going to bring some significant Revenue uh the city by the way you know we we can't really control how you spend your money you know uh we can't come in there and dictate how you do everything we can make suggestions that type of thing but we still our responsibilities grow when these properties are being facilitated people are beginning to occupy these properties and move it in their building building you know our responsibility significantly grow and we need every little chump of change we can get I appreciate what CRA is I've been been Pro CRA from day one um but I'm just say to have a whole city uh is really kind of kind of crazy and uh with that said go ahead and make the comments thank you mayor Josh Irving for the record so I would just say that you know we as a CRA completely understand the budget deficits and the issues uh that may arise through you know the redistribution of the C Tiff money and we're certainly here to help in any way that we can um legally speaking I think in conversations with some of you it's become pretty clear that the easiest path for helping the city out with those revenues is a reduction in the percentage and and the reason I say that there are two consequences I foresee with a reduction in the area especially this late in the game the first is a dr420 tiff so the property appraiser each year generates a dr420 tiff that establishes the increment value for the parcels within that area so in order for them to amend that dr420 Tiff they would have to remove that portion that the council decided reestablish that value and then move forward from there I've reached out to them I don't know what that timeline is the second thing that I think is a concern maybe a consequence it a fair word but a concern would be that if it's removed out of our area we're also removed in perpetuity doing anything in that area south of so any type of Redevelopment effort that we could participate in through our Redevelopment plan we would be removed from that opportunity if it's removed from our area I think the other uh thing that has to be considered is you know this is really our first year first budget year going into uh fiscal year um 25 where we have a Redevelopment plan know when I first started here um our budget was a little over 300 000 if I remember uh had an inadequate Redevelopment plan so the board decided let's let's hire a consultant and we did so that uh Redevelopment plan was adopted by this Council in January so this is really the first year that we've been able to identify some opportunities for the CRA and really fund them and I completely agree uh you know this is an organization that will remove that political burden and allow us to do things that quite frankly would be difficult for the council so we're I say that to say this we're here to help in any way that we can we're all in this together uh and certainly look forward to whatever remedy you all come up with and I'll be glad to help in any way that I can thank you thank you very much mayor Josh with a reduction of 10% 15% pick a number um what would that mean as far as anticipated growth and your Revenue what what would that mean to the city you know it's it's kind of a a difficult question to answer because I I really don't know one thing that complicates this is the the lack of funding that would come in from the county portion you know it's pretty unique that we generate Revenue through both the city and the county millage whereas if you remove a certain area or you we remove the percentage or reduce the percentage then whatever that difference is we're less than in our Revenue side so you know I think we'll make it work don't get me wrong but what that looks like in perpetuity I'm not really sure obviously there's a huge potential for growth south of town and there's a huge potential for growth you know all throughout City Limits and you know so we can make it work is the the the short answer to that question would would it be a Mr Mayor sorry would it be a a fair statement to maybe say that your your development plans would not be as accelerated as they are today is that maybe an easier way to look at this if we were to adjust the percentage sure so in part of our Redevelopment Plan update there was a revenue calculation done based on the 95% understanding and you know a three or 5% growth annually uh so when you measure up a reduction against that then yes you know some of the projects may not be um able to be completed in the remaining nine years of our life but you know what that actually looks like uh in real dollars over time you it's hard to say um one of the things that concerns me about the reductions is that and what I love about the CRA in addition to the the mission the original Mission is the clawback that we have on taxes that are from the county that are coming back because we we our own fire but we still pay for fire and our and our tax and our have alarm taxes to the county we we're not out in the county getting free trash collections we pay for our own police we constantly have to battle uh perception from uh from people that don't live here that don't understand that we pay that tax whenever we have a park or whenever we uh work with the county to do anything we get criticisms like why is it going into defun because we pay the same taxes we deserve that's why but this is one way that we can actually do that uh and it's agreed to and it goes into the same Mission One mission one purpose and one of the things that the CRA does is they are working with us to help us with a lot of our matches um we're doing that in terms of projects that have been identified and that we can do and so any time we do a reduction they've already done their budget this year for instance it's done so if we did it this year it would it would rehab it however I was still willing to do that because the city does have a need uh in terms of fixing long-standing problems that should have been dealt with a long time long before any of us got uh and it's not the fault of any one of those people of those things that happen it's just that you know they happen period so I hate losing the clawback but I am willing to give I am willing to work with all of us together to go in a common Direction and find find a happy medium but this won't this won't cure any single shortfall that we have I mean a fair question as what are we going to do with $95,000 what are we going to do I mean right now we talk we had an item on here for salaries 50,000 just to increase you know a little bit on the executive I 50 forget let's not do that Let's do let's keep you know the C functioning because we get we get another 33% on top of that or actually 63% on top of that because we get a call back from the county so I I'm cautious and that's why I proposed if we're going to do it let's make it meaningful but also let's not turn this into a a by annual event any else yes Mr har with the cut from the county portion of the CRA funding I'm I'm looking at your budget for 2425 and there's quite a few projects in here like Ampitheater project there was um $340,000 dedicated to that the street skapes and Alleyways there's $260,000 we're going to allocate to that how did the counties cut from the CRA funding impact or will impact these projects that directly benefit us in the city well I mean I think uh there will be a reduction obviously in some of those funds um how we get there you know it's hard to say uh there was some additional carryover Revenue factored in to that budget as well uh that could you know maybe be distributed differently uh but the bottom line is you know we'll have to figure out the board will have to figure out quite frankly you know which amount they want to um take out of each account can I follow up with what he just said those two projects alone will those be completed 100% in this budget cycle not at all so will will the monies that are set aside for the projects the amount that you need for this particular fiscal year 25 is that just a portion of what the project cost it the amphitheater project for sure it's it's a about a 10% portion of that that's really just to fund the design of that project so 340 is what you would need in 20 five hopefully you know less than that but yes that that is kind of what that would be for not for the actual construction and the streetcape because I know that's really important it is uh you know we don't have an identified project that we're starting on we have some Concepts that we've been working through there's been a lot of talk recently about undergrounding utilities been working closely with the utility owners on providing a proposal for that that's certainly something I'm planning to bring to my board uh at our next meeting I would estimate based on the estimates that I've gotten uh that project being probably close to a million dollars um so you know the the funds that you have there are you know meaningful but certainly would not fund the entire project you know money would have to be brought forward from some other account so Josh just one more followup question because if you know that's 10% so you already know how much it's going to cost to do that Amphitheater project in whole as well as the streetcape alleyway we have an estimate provided by the planning consultant that put together our Capital Improvement plan so that's the 10% amount is basically I think it's four not actually been like the full design plan or it could go way more than this it could go it could be or could be way less way less okay exactly so we haven't even got to the feasibility study portion of that to help determine what the design concept should be so it's hard to say um but you know I would anticipate the Professional Services portion the engineering you know would be at least 100,000 plus so for one or both for just Amphitheater project okay because you've got other Professional Services you have 150 in there for current year okay thank you so clay will probably shoot me for even bringing this up without him here but to me one of the elephants in the room in this discussion is that the CRA is in a unique position to be able to bond out their revenue and actually use it as basically a force multiplier for the city and if we if we start now adjusting those revenues that would cast doubt on their ability to bond out that revenue and basically multiply our dollars uh so I think that's something that we need to keep in mind is if we're messing with their revenue now are they able to bond out at a certain rate now versus next year if we were if we were to make them take a 20% haircut on it that could significantly affect their ability to to bond out that revenue and I think that that's something that the city and the county has missed an opportunity on um in in numerous aspects of not taking that that opportunity to bond out predictable revenue and get some of these major projects done that we've needed within the city or within the county so I think we as a council need to need to consider that strongly in any sort of um reduction to the CRA that that would affect their their ability to bond that that Revenue I I agree and again we keep going back to that Force multiplier I mean yeah 600 yeah their budget from the city is 93,000 this year but it's also 600,000 from the county um and they're then using that on something that we're doing is matches so they're they're bringing in 10% 15% 20% to match on other projects like reconnecting where they have overlap with what we do already um so that is a force multiplier and then also you know in terms of Business Development and what we're doing downtown now building from the past but also what we're doing in the future um what they're looking at with parking uh is beyond what we've been able to look at and uh again there's going to be other opportunities to use possibly North NDC funds for for for work on the amphitheater or some other smaller projects possibly uh working with do in terms of uh you know parking along the roads or improvements along the roads that facilitate parking facilities along the 90 Corridor in particular in downtown or downtown expansion which again we are going to have to have parking lots as the businesses grow we we're seeing that they're getting busy it's going to take time we don't have a problem yet but the CRA is one mechanism that's allowing focus on that issue because otherwise I don't think we' have clear Focus I don't think we would gotten to the point that they got to where we' be talking about buying parking lots and M and making parking lots would still be stuck on the conversation of there's a couple of ditches that we can close up and put a couple spots there and call it a day so you know it's the difference between talking about the problem sticking a Band-Aid on it and then just going full portion and addressing it is what I see their roll and they Amy Josh question has your board looked at or through you however um have you looked at asking the fairgrounds could their could we use their parking lot for parking for Big City events or and and if we have what was their response the county to us far you know using there we have not had any of those conversations is that even a possibility uh I'm not sure reason why we have not to bust people to maybe if it's like the 4th of July or whatever have we I don't think we ever asked parking lot and across the street because I know when I go to the county fair there's tons of cars we can uh all right we're on the CRA are we about done [Laughter] C I have what's the general consensus on to try I wish we wait till next year if we got to wait till next year can I um I I I just I hesitate to cut CR very much I think they can be very effective for us um I think they're just beginning to get their legs under them uh with what they what they can do and like the parking study whether we agree with it or not and that's the thing we'll never agree on whether a problem downtown until somebody somebody from the outside tells us what whether we have a problem or not somebody that's objective and not in the emotional conversation of it and and what we foresee maybe maybe we can get a good good idea that is something that the CRA can do um so I just think that we have a ways to go and he's going to take a lot of conversations to get the CRA working in the way that you all envisioned it when this thing was put into place I wasn't part of this then but um I can foresee just knowing what I know from around the state that they are very effective or can be very effective and and in my view it's up to us and the conversation and the board of the CR to make it to make it effective the way we want to see it happen so um but anyway thank you go ahead am Dan I I believe it's a new point from my perspective for the C I brought it up I I wanted us to try to break even I just think now we just need to look elsewhere to figure out how to get our revenues and expenses in the general fund I'm only speaking of the general fund to break even and live within our means um because I know the numbers that I'm sharing with us today uh we desire to provide a two and a half percent Cola and I'm not calculating that into my deficit right now so we're out a deficit if we approve a public works director if we approve a two and a half% cola and we don't make any other changes then our deficit grows so I'm okay with okay we that was one option I don't think it's a viable one now at this time compared to what it's going to do I think we just have harder decisions to make so that's my comment Melinda Henderson resident of the city one thing I see the CRA providing for you that you do not have time necessarily to do is Major contacts with other organizations in the city and what they may need and what they may want for the city thank you all right Dan you your CRA we're trying to wrap up CRA and we're gonna take a break okay um the CRA is a part of this okay so I'll just hit the part that c is involved in and can I finish when you get back sure okay so are we going into this uh are we going into this in the red I think I heard y'all say we're we're going into uh there's no time on a workshop you don't have to worry about setting that so go ahead so um are we at a$ 400 uh ,000 deficit going in to this new budget is that is that correct the the Bal the budget is balanced the budget is balanced the deficit there's transfers that have to be made out of Enterprise funds happens every year is the deficit is is that the $400,000 uh figure that I heard is that so I believe the $400,000 figure we've talked about is the my recommendation for the cost of living adjustment for employees is roughly $400,000 Council had asked between her and I how much of the avalum tax we would keep this year on an increase I don't know that exact number is it's probably 70 or 80,000 because the CRA gets the largest portion of that in financing so 400 minus 80 $300,000 in the red that's where the com the comment had come from so we're about 400,000 in the red going into the new budget just yes or no if that's how you want to look at every year you're going to be in the red we don't we're not going to ever generate enough Revenue to to to cut out transfers you're always going to have to make transfers out of Enterprise funds we always have okay so there are other areas that we can we don't have to just hit the CRA real hard there's there's a lot of areas now keep in mind the old expression that charity begins at home you take care of yourself before you start taking care taking on other people make sure your house is in order first um the CRA is of course on the top of the list because we give them a million dollars a year of taxpayers dollars which we really have no control over and then they take it and they make uh that their job is to get rid of blight uh so my question is if we have to bridge the gap with additional funds uh instead of doing getting away with the the map uh which clay said would be a real big headache um keep in mind that you you can take a percentage of this to take care of home first and not hit them so hard but there's some other areas that I believe the city funds like the the Eda we give them what $50,000 a year and the county gives them a lot more than that then we cut a little bit from that and cut a little bit from maybe Tri County and all the 501c3 charitables that we donate to we didn't do any this year and we is there any room there to cut back cut that back cut that off okay council did elect not to provide funding to um Charities this year or those events the Walt County Economic Development Alliance last year received 32,000 Tri County received 27 this year Eda asked for $4,499 62 Tri County asked for $ 30,000 and there was no disc consent there was a majority to fund at those uh programs at that level okay so are you telling me that we have no money problems and that we're going into the next year solvent with full 100% um being physically responsible uh there's no deficit or anything like that the budget the budget is balance now my my definition as well as councilwoman Heaven's definition of being in the red or not is the transfers that is the thing that both both of us have taken issue with over the years okay so but at the end of the day it's not that we're ins solving is that we would like that money to stay in those funds to be used for other purposes doesn't mean we're in solv it doesn't mean we don't have a balanced budget okay so the rest of it can wait until you get back from the break that's all right everybody clear we'll take at least a 7 minute break yeah other [Music] ways fig so I got a [Music] old9 I [Music] Got Back so I just sent another email said we don't own that no more we're located at this address what thiser I want to see the list water electric andt off this building that we have sold and she said she take yeah she did she didn't obviously Lisa is who does all that You' have been better sir just going but that shouldn't have been your responsibility well I was just doing a friendly reminder like hey hey I meant to ask you we looking for 400 that we need to be looking for 2.9 um the thing he was talking about study they did on the [Music] Imp that's what he keeps referring to says we can spend the money on that's what me and you need to read look at I don't know to find we don't share stuff around here it's probably where is she going that take garbage back on cuz um get ready to sink this Bo you can't do it for what they talking about problems sold all that [Music] I but all we're paying is this buddy this is it this is our everything we're paying Insurance 700 so our 7 31,000 of that only 330 is building properties and that actually went down but out of that 330 you are playing the line share which is wrong1 refrigerat [Music] I fig if anybody could come up game we might record tonight yeah you know what did a while ago Easter time grab my watch and another two hours got and the answer is prob yes break oh gonna tell me that [Music] tomorrow this is match did yall play that no you and her oh oh H I know oh oh matching I know vintage you got everything look mine yeah I know get a different from that to have a you're always I got you sir thank hope [Music] dep that's what you know what I mean comat that what's been the response in past years because got be the same thing well yeah it's a you know I I've had people especially when I've been talking to all myre places like this and they don't even have fire they don't [Laughter] how much longer you make [Music] this is what was this is the percentage that makes numers that was their calculation and yours is this and so this is this is the3 PRI this is what I'm going to if you agree with it if y want us to go back and re so nothing's been done it's just this is your that the number so the 823 that's how I came to it okay gotcha thank you Daniel is that what the budget was Kobe can you go to uh it was 8 the the bill out whatever on the revenue side I think it's on the General Revenue tab utility what it was yeah util yeah the utility transer the 823 that's that's what this okay that I got it now I see it all right we're going to call this budget we try back order uh back to you um seems like C May might be late but discuss a clay in the morning see the options bring back kind everybody's thinking conversation I went to but I don't want to run down rabbit hole that's not will to do yeah I didn't think that's what we said I mean there is a concern if we're going to do it later it takes time because it's not just getting it done it's getting it done ahead of everyone else's beginning of the budget cycle so it's not only starting then but being six months ahead of there I mean basically to start I mean we have to do it pretty soon to do it for next year close concern leaving that we would have our budget final Budget prior to our final meeting my my opinion would be that we agree to maybe just look at it next year and do do the reduction next year possibly Poss we if we need if we don't find other Solutions that's that's what I thought we said I think that there's there's other lwh hanging fruit that I would like to discuss in some of the other departments that you know could help us with the current year and then maybe we look at the CRA maybe even next year just push it off the next year that's my opinion we could bring it back later if we need to before hand so that's f with me I'm not saying I won't bring it back sooner rather than later but I think well just for the sake of so we don't have Pandora's Box on you know when we when you come up with different subject or you respond different things you can have three minutes each time just don't want it to continue so uh you want to come now and hit something I got several things so it's not going to take you three minutes to talk about each one of them but if you want to give you three minutes for each one of them fine well I'm we need kind of a break in between but I'm walk out the room break well you know in other words I'm not gonna I'm not here to hand anybody I'm here to learn and I'm trying to wrap my head around it's complicated and I appreciate all right go ahead and let's tackle one right now let's take one I'm on okay um I was taking notes and like I said y'all have patience with me um but I think during the break I went back over my paperwork and I wrote down that there was $7.3 Million set aside in revenue for uh 2025 and that it ends up being 7.8 million which I think there was a difference in like 400,000 I'm trying to figure out where I got that four 400,000 from and I was wondering if you are uh maybe councilman havlin or Danielle can explain that to me so I can comprehend it I [Music] cannot begin talked about yeah I think if you wrote your notes down at the very beginning there was $21 million in the budget that was that finances put together that was the total revenues what I did was backed out certain one-time things like the sale of City Hall that's not going to be a recurring thing the transfers in from the other funds that those vary from year to year to year so what I did was I backed out certain things to look at what what was remaining which was $7.3 million and then what I said was according to this budget that staff has put together Personnel cost alone exceeded that number and so I said we're starting in a deficit position from the very beginning and I think that might be where you're coming from because my number was close to that number uh between three and $400,000 does everybody agree with that no no no okay no because I mean if you look at if you look at the General Revenue that that Kobe has pulled up there's just at the very tip top there's a total of $7.1 million just from The General revenues and then if you look at you know temporary use permits they're in the next category then you go down to Total Li you that there's 300,000 total licenses permits there's 3.6 million in total intergovernmental Revenue which a lot of that is Grants um then there's another million dollars in the next one which is the charge for services um on and on and on so I I understand what councilwoman heavin is attempting to do but I I don't agree with with the number to a certain extent if we're not all on the same sheet of music it makes it hard to to to kind of work through through the process so like I would prefer that we all agree that we're we're running off of this General Revenue tab that that's here because that's that's true okay um I'm having a little hard time getting a straight answer here so if it was a tech related question I would look toward Josh and Todd to lead the way because that's their wheelhouse since this is a money matter shouldn't we listen to our CPA yeah but we don't we don't dis discount the other three council members when we have a computer question or a computer topic come up so but you go to your subject experts so and and this isn't to be controversial the I think we started off by not listen on the wrong foot by not taking her advice like when she was sworn in if that's a touchy subject and you don't want to talk about it I can go on to the next subject I just when it comes to financial matters I lean toward Amy because that's what she's done all her life [Music] um do I need to just move on or is there anything you want to say on this Amy I don't I mean we each got our own opinion like I said we started with the 21 million I backed out City Hall the grants was three million I backed out insurance reimbursements a 20 and prior year reserves of 2.3 million that's 7.5 off the 21 right from the very get-go and I Tred to leave it uh with the rec curring Revenue sources that we have every year year after year after year ad valorum taxes fees permits Rents State Revenue sharing miscellaneous local Road and bridges and traffic signs and that's about $7.3 million of general fund revenues that are recurring pretty much statistically the same amount year after year after year so does anything that's going on right now is it affected by the uh employee raises I don't have any of those factored in just yet they're in the budget so that's we haven't gotten that far to finish the conversation according to your um according to your calculations would the employee pay raises and other other expenses go on top of the 100,000 that you're talking about yes okay so if we want to stay within budget and I know I'm not using the right vocabulary which is I can tell is frustrating you but this is not my wheelhouse either um here's some ideas that you may or may want to consider for the budget and I'm just going to throw some out there um I tried to mention earlier that there's a lot of other things that we give money to out there other than just the CRA that I'm wondering if we couldn't sharpen our pen alone and to stay to to get that $400,000 plus reduced instead of adding on to it and I'm just going to throw out a couple of examples here um I asked Co I asked uh Kobe uh earlier um late last week as a matter of fact I said I got some ideas to run by you and I want to see what you think about them before I go public with them and I said uh how much do you make Kobe and he said I make $125,000 a year and I said do you think you need a pay race and he said no I don't he said that's why I Exempted it I'd rather have the pay raise goes to the go to the employees and I thought that was very admirable now what I would like to do to try and help being in the red and that's that's how I've got it explained to me instead of going further in debt do I I did some homework on the council on the council um y'all want to go to $20,000 a year is that it to match the mayor is is that correct has not been agreed on okay was that the proposal okay um down in Freeport the council members draw and they're and they're bigger than us now $12,700 a year and uh Fort Walton Beach their council members only make $5,000 a year nville has been doing it for free for decades and they just started paying their council members at $7,200 a year cres view $5,000 a year and the fiac Springs we had um a proposal for $20,000 a year that doesn't sound very Admiral to me as Kobe was when he refused the raise because of the budget situation so I would like to ask y'all for the purposes of this year would you be willing to not give yourself a raise is that something y'all would consider are we going to pull the council individually on this no but one thing one arbitrary question and you don't have to answer me so I I'll just keep going on if you want me to um it would speak volumes if the council did that if you don't that's fine your business so um the next thing is employee raises now the people who are hurting the least are the people making above $70,000 a year they're the ones that's hurting the least we've got employees that's making $15 an hour minimum people who's been with the city for a while that's not even making $20,000 uh $20 an hour so would you be willing to consider just giving the raises to the people uh below $70,000 a year instead of the upper echelon who are already well pa paid um so in other words following Kobe's example so that's a that's a a moneys saving area that I think is worthy uh some other areas is um I don't know if you want to back off as mentioned before the Eda I don't know if you want to back off uh the CRA as we beat that horse to death or Tri County or anything else um I think there's some room here where we can where we can do some money saving and I'd like you to educate me this on this but uh one of the things that I'm trying to learn is uh the profit generated from our water gas and Sewer uh is being used to operate the City's general fund instead of the badly needed infrastructure that we are need of when we run out of money or run in a problem on the on the in the general fund uh are we dipping into uh the Water gas and Sewer which to my understanding was there for infrastructure for replacing these clay pipes uh for replacing uh old pump heads uh all this stuff that we need if we're taking out of these water gas and sewage FS aren't we hurting our infrastructure and if I'm wrong yeah let me say is Dan that's every city does uh you know no city taxes uh most any City their taxes probably only represent somewhere between three and % of their full budget so taxes don't pay the bills uh that's why we have to come out of water and sometimes other Enterprise funds to support the city because we have a lot of departments that don't make any Revenue that cost millions of dollars and uh and so that that money has to come from somewhere okay so um I understand that uh the airport is falls in the category of an Enterprise um is that correct in a price fund is yes it's been under the red for many many years well I'm not interested in that I understand because it's been in the building phase but there's a moratorium on taking any money out of the airport fund is that correct no that's not true no it's just never happened oh it's never happened it doesn't generate enough Revenue to transfer over water sewer and gas have always been the providers of that sanitation provide the transfer to the sales tax so the Enterprise funds are they are they self-supporting if you have an Enterprise fund like the airport is is it self-sufficient is all the funds that they make go back go into it or do they dip into the general fund to for most years we have had to transfer from the general fund to to the airport okay not from it this year it will not this year the airport breaks even it also has um money going into reserves so when you take money out of uh gas water and sewage do you take it out of all three of them in equal increments or how does that work in the past has been different as mentioned earlier um last year all came out of water to fund to make F that transfer this year we feel it's appropriate to come out of all three the amount that comes out per fund just depends on how much revenue it generates how much we need into the general fund and how much we're going to spend in each Enterprise F to know it's not based on particular percentage population um is one of the reasons our water bill is higher than most places in our region is because we keep going to the water um and and dipping into that pool in other words should we dip more into gas or should we dip more into sewage you know it one of the things that people's been talking about for years is the water bill and how it's uh not in proportionate to surrounding area is and I'm not here to argue that I'm just putting information out and at the same time if you want to give me some feedback for my own edification I appreciate it I know Mr Valley has been working hard to try to find ways to lower particularly the water okay and that U but we do we got those rates from studies that we PID for okay is the reflection of Lights uh that's a that's an Enterprise fund I'm guessing right revenue account special revenue account is it self-sufficient yes so it so the only thing that comes out of there is what reflection of light makes correct okay so there's no deficit there no broke even and and it fund and and I just learned that learned tonight it funds a full-time employee correct okay so is it safe to say that let's say they start putting the Christmas lights up uh for months in advance before Christmas and then two months into the new year to take it back down um I'm sure that this employee is utilized the other six months is that correct he yes okay uh is the cemetery self-sufficient I understand we've got a a u a supervisor out there a cemetery supervisor cemetery is a special Revenue fund it has two employees a foreman and a technician the cemetery will require um a transfer from the general fund in the amount of 97397 okay so um would the board consider and are y'all when when you said are we going to poll the the uh board I don't know how else to get an answer so maybe that was a good idea would would you consider uh giving the raise on only to the employees that need it the most and you don't have to say 70,000 you could say 50,000 and Below but the point is to try and save money so that next year when we are doing the same Workshop we're not worried about okay we've got this $400 $400,000 deficit uh and we haven't even added all the stuff that you're wanting to put into the budget yet so that's getting bigger and bigger bigger and from the Layman's point of view from the Layman's point of view that's not being physically responsible so I thought the idea of these workshops were to try and work within our means and I guess I guess the thing I'm having a a hard time wrapping my head around is and my wife gets the majority of this credit uh my whole time on this planet I've never bounced a check I've always worked in a budget if we didn't have it we didn't do it and that's being in my definition physically responsible I don't see the same thing with my city government and I'm just trying to learn yeah well we appreciate your comments and I'm sure all of them will consider what you told thank you sir thank you all right mayor um we will uh let's we'll finish let's do the cemetery real quick and then we'll do the airport that'll be the last of the Departments individually so again Cemetery if there's any particular questions about the cemetery I can answer those as well this up make sure I got my notes yeah go ahead so Kobe I know we are supposed to or we're supposed to kind of like charge back to ourselves like water and and the various utilities that we consume right we can't basically give them to ourselves for free but is is 5,000 for water out of the cemetery appropriate I know you and I had a conversation in which you said that there was some question about those those utility expenses is is that 5,000 appropriate that's the good number it was 20 um going through the process uh this year and last year the utilities of the cemeter almost or a little over $20,000 which is impossible right um so this again this was going down Danielle went to all the utilities for every Department looked at their consumption how how they've been doing year every year and this you can number so so we were looking at consumption yeah like the prior years you see $3,800 $4,600 again as you add more employees as a do more things out there the bathrooms get used more stuff like that yes this number came from consumption okay and then the the telephone expense for $1,000 I'm assuming that's it's two employees that's roughly $40 a month for each person to have I'm assuming a cell phone and an office phone okay and then because you know we always never miss an opportunity to make a joke about the cemetery but um I'm dying to know what about $250 worth of travel to the cemetery so um I'm sure we'll get into more in a little bit travel um again I I I think it's important for especially department heads to go to conferences and to get educated continue that's in there if Chris Mitchell who's very active at the cemeter foran if uh there's an opportunity for him to go somewhere to learn more um or an event to attend the bills with cemetaries that's what that's for okay that's all I have this any other questions on secetary yeah your building liability insurance what are we what what are we covering I Bas I've never been out there so you have to I based that off the same spreadsheet that Morgan and Deborah and the rest of them were using to split that cost out I've got my new premium now I'm waiting on the insurance company to give me a detailed list of what we're paying for so I can truly associate what should be charged to the cemetery versus right now that was just a previous allocation and you're just repeating the allocation whether it's accurate or not at this point because we're waiting for details on what we're covering from yes okay but yes there is a building and there is um two vehicles out there soaz and gazebo yeah so there so there is building to be insured and vehicles and in individuals lot refunds is that what's the lot refund tell me how I get one of those well some sold their things back someone owns a deed to apply there they can sell it back to the city for the amount which they bought it for we had one of those a couple months ago a lady bought one when they wore $750 okay and she doesn't need anymore so she sold it back to the city I can tell you that those are contentious topics two of the first complaints that I got as a council member dealt with the cemetery one was a transfer of lots so that they could bury his brother when his brother died his mother bought it or something down the line and trying to get those agreements signed and then the other one was when uh DUI ran through the front of the cemetery and took out a ton of plots so I think that the funds they spent there it to just show respect for people contributed the community and those still can contribute and a lot of those things will now go through the cemetery board from administrative perspective the May it's on it comes to dealing with these and issues at uh one question the transfer and I I see it now from general fund so you're saying we need 100 Grand basically for to operate this help help us out what are we why or how could we reduce that because that should be running your your operating expenses are pretty pretty lean um it's your two employees out there so is that youra yeah you're going to run out of lots to sale yes you're not going to generate enough Revenue through lots and burial fees Cod of the 163 133,000 is two employees Mr May the cemetery board when you guys met last mon it these topics actually came up in that meeting and they were talking about lost Revenue instead of in the positive disco around there actually was a reduction this past year because and one of the questions posed to Mr Mitchell was is that due to increased cremations and different things that came up but it it was something yeah well I did ask that very question he doesn't seem to think so I would think so but one of the things was is we look back because after covid 20 2021 and 2022 there were a lot of deaths related to co and uh and so I think that's why it looked like things were going being reduced considerably the sales that I don't know that's that makes sense but I don't know yes ma' H how many plots are remaining because I see on this line item nine Lots sale of fixed assets which means okay so we sell we're selling lots we're selling 25 how many do we when do we run out you're not gonna run out I mean Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell has them laid out on rdis mat we know how many there are I'd have to ask how many there are but there's 40 acres we haven't touched yet so we're not going to run okay yeah we haven't even filled in the new section and that's not even touching the first 40 so and are these Lots the same exact size like are they no they're all over the place even the 40 that I mean are they already like even though they're not sold this 40 acres are they already divided into my family of four I can buy four side by side or no because like if if you go out to there right now the 40 acres he's talking about is the wooded area directly behind there that hasn't even been cleared okay so there there's 40 acres of wooded area that's not been cleared plotted anything just out of curiosity who makes the decision on what size uh do I just come to the city and say hey I need a two acre plot for my family no they're already laid out through the Chris Mitchell SS them based on what's available the new section is a lot more uniform than the old section because of the ability to plan it out and lay it out the same way so you would go and the plots there is there any way to raise revenues or this has already been analyzed by that I was say that's what I was about to say is like we we raised we raised uh the fees uh significantly I think it was three years ago um that's when we were raising all the other fees around the city and as a council member I caught a lot of flack over over that however I also had had one of the local uh Funeral Home directors look me Square in the eye and tell me that we were significantly under what the other area cemeteries were charging the catch to that is um you go to those cemeteries and you go to ours they're providing a a significantly higher uh you know service and other words well manicured Lawns you know no blade of grass is out of place so they can charge that you go to our Cemetery we struggle to cut cut the grass on a regular basis that's just the reality of it is you know when when Mr Thompson was here we did the back of the napkin math we used to get a inmate work crew to go out there twice a month and mow that entire cemetery and there was 10 people on that work crew and if you do the back of the napkin na math on that work crew going out there twice a month that's the equivalent of four four, positions sitting on a mower eight hours a day 5 days a week that's that's what the equivalent is we've got two people and we we can't afford to add four more people that do nothing but ride a mower eight hours a day five days a week which simply can't afford it you cannot charge enough for the plots to do it so the at the end of the day the cemetery is always going to be a drain on the general fund unless you were to just charge people out the wo and then at that point they're probably going to go elsewhere because they can go to some of these other places and it's already better maintained because long ago they started out with a correct Fe structure ma'am not that I'm suggesting this but I want to throw out the conversation what if we Outsource it Mr mcnight regularly pushed for that okay but who was the who who are you going to sell it to nobody wants it nobody wants it well I don't want to sell it I just want to Outsource it like we do Jacobs I think that staff said I think the last time they asked it was3 to $400,000 a year for someone to come in and cut the grass on the reg for a company to come in and service that some I know Chris but certainly we do more than cut the graphs Chris said by the time the two employees cut lot it's already growed up before they can get back around to it again Chris Mitchell when when the Cemetary board met he was saying that with the two employees by the time they get the grass cut on the backside to get back to the front side the grass has already been grow up and they're getting complaints that's too high already and then one of the biggest complaints that I've heard is is um it's and understand it why it was taken but is fact of trying to find somebody to keep up their loved ones lot on that interior and then what it looks like to everybody else if they don't too um that was very sadly if if it's an outside like a someone that does business mind then they have to pay fees where a family would not yeah the family came in took care of their plot or did all the improvements well one of one of the other things to consider uh that's been explained to me the the backside of the current cemetery is All Uniform because it was planned out fairly recently the front part of the cemetery and what they call the old part of the cemetery where we're not where they're not selling lots even though there's technically availability at one point in the 80s those deeds to those plots were sold out of the trunk of a car and I'm not exaggerating I've had multiple people tell me that so from a deed perspective that that part of the cemetery is forgive the expression it's a landmine from from a legal perspective on who owns what and where it it's AB an absolute headache so I can only imagine what someone would want us to pay them to come in and take over that responsibility and that liability let alone the maintenance portion of it which you're you're right when when this came up previously and we were raising the rates uh we had two commercial they the the staff called two different commercial lawn mowing services and they were quoted between three and $400,000 a year just to just to maintain the cemetery I believe once a month so it's it's a losing proposition and the city should have never bought it back in I think it was early 20 when they when they bought it and took it over well as I just start thinking about it it's not even a routine Revenue Source because it's going to vary significantly from one extreme to another every year because we can't estimate how much how many people are going to die and what they going get sales exactly because I can see it's already 50% just in the Lots itself from prior year to current year so you go out there and talk to Chris about some of the challenges he faces during funerals um it's not anything I want to talk about on the record but it's yeah I'm it's pretty bad I'll make a reservation and he's doing an excellent job if you look at everything he's going through with what he's doing he's doing an excellent job the records not with a public records request so I get it I'll just I'll go out I I'll second that I've had I've had both of the local Funeral Home directors come to me and say that Chris is doing a phenomenal job and since he's been out there the service and the ability for them to conduct Services out there the the cemetery greatly improved so he is doing a fantastic job and it's it's a thankless position for sure can we charge for you know I know he's on tours or something before has done certain things that he's generated interest from the community to come and see that uh as have we ever discussed that possibility a couple uh before I went out um myself the main superintendent Chris Cemetery Foreman project manager and the grants coordinator met and we will continue to meet uh it's my goal to create a cemetery master plan you know right not everything cost money right so we want to create a multi-year plan of what the cemetery what yall want Cemetery look like we're going to utilize it how we're going to utilize it can it become an active you know Park will be respectful but um you get a certain demographic out there and enjoy it people who are different history of it Chris can provide tours we can do those type of things so we're working on that and bring that back to you know is there a way to generate some Revenue additional Mr Mayor you know that that reminded me there was at one point a plan put forth to do one of the a large mum in the front area that actually doesn't have anything right now and to sell those at a at a premium because people more people are turning to Cremation than actual burial services so there there was a plan by Mr Thompson at the time time to to look at that and if if his numbers were true then then there was some upside to that in terms of Revenue but at the same time you'd have to spend the money to make the money it was one of those one of those situations yeah Kristen mentioned mentioned that M um so we you know we're looking different ideas if you know what cemetery you want to look like does a cemetery need a new building for staff turn the current building into the mum was already there create a building that's appealing to the eye Blended in with the historic nature of theet so those are different things we're working through to see what can we bring back to y'all yall be you know proove or disprove yeah any more questions on the cemetery S defc springs I know it's money but we've got a $50 drug screening I know all of our employees get drug screening when they're hired how often are we using these drug screenings that are included in these additional sections this is drug screenings are in the so this year we took that out of cemeter at in HR drug testing is in the case of uh an accident right they required here within a certain amount of time why can't they use their insurance or workers's comp if it's an accident instead of paying for that the city pays for it right yeah why couldn't we put it under workers comp if it's an accident separate function we have to pay the lab here in town who does a drug testing to do the drug testing and they ask if it was an accident and ask for your workers comp insurance then are we're going to pay more work for comp insurance yeah but I mean do you see what I'm saying we have all these listed but how often are we actually using them out of these various funds is the whole point here yeah and that's again it's taking out no no I understand that here but in the other spots I mean I know it's only my new 150 here or there but that is saving additional funds if we have not used them in mple years accident free things like that we do have them periodically um a couple months ago you know we had an employee who had to go to the hospital had a bad finger cut we had an employee who got wreck on walon road had to do it that was with a local business so it happens more frequently than you think luckily it's not serious so it's not making news which is good okay okay right the airport again uh the airport is majority grants uh Danielle and I are going to go through here first I did this to show how much money you're going to probably see especially the next two to three years that's going to come to the airport we're going to go through here and reduce some of these numbers because we're not going to recognize that this year just don't physically have the time to do the projects in that time frame so those this will reduce but again those grants have Associated expenses so it doesn't mess with the operating of the airport you back those out the airport breaks even between um rentals and fuel CES the operating expenses Break Even you'll see there is a $116,000 would be a $16,000 transfer to reserves that means were $16,000 in the black putting that into the reserve account what do you bringing the 68 forward carry forward out of reserves well the carry funds that Daniel identified that are not be spent yeah they are not going to be spent this current Bisal year well it must be if she's saying that um you'd be sticking the whole um 7 something question that money stays within that fund so when you have carry forward you should budget that carry forward if we didn't need it it would have a reserve account associated with it that we'd be plugging it into so so is that 100% of all that we have in the airport as reserved from prior years is this car forward number of 68 so there's never been a carry forward you have supplemented your airport fund with your General Revenue this is the first time that that we've had money to carry forward and so what was that generated last year in 23 then is that what I'm understand that was in this year I projected you were GNA have current FC year what we yeah what we anticipate to have remaining in the bud in this current fisc year budget to carry over next year again based off expenses up to July June or July didn't have an airport director for a whole year do you need that to to uh to fund next year or can it stay in the reserves and not just because we have it doesn't mean we have to bring It Forward into the budget we don't have an airport Reserve can this this 16,000 you see here would be the first amount put into an airport Reserve fund so yes you are using some of that to fund that budget and I had asked earlier I know that in the accounting system it's segregated into a fund a 400 fund M but in the financial statements audited financial statements it's rolled up into the general fund so it's acting right now and that's a decision that we're wearing we have spoke to Auditors and this next not this audit here but the next audit see the airport sanitation utilties you're going to make special fund because it is you're okay and it should be but it's not going to happen in the not this one 23 finishing now 23 no in 24 that was their oh the one we're going to finish in September you're going to that's 23 23 budget I mean audit okay I'm sorry yeah you're good it's not gonna happen in that one that they're working on now that was at their request there's a lot of work as you know you're CPA to pull all that out and move it over they ask could they wait until next year to do that because it was complicated now what I heard her just say I just want to rephrase it so that i' not have any misunderstanding 23 is what they're working on right now working on right now 24 is going to start in one month from now I mean shortly thereafter we should be drafting our so it's 24 that they're gonna yes thank you okay thank you um to so I got a couple questions on this um I will say before before I bring this one up I am I am glad that I only see this a few times because I can remember years ago you saw this in just about every every budget but you've got an airport miscellaneous charges of 7500 and that was something that myself and Dr mcnight used to always kind of harp on you know what is miscellaneous and it always just seems to be a a plug number that's Titan fees that is what you're getting paid what you have to pay that's but this is under expens yes yes it's a fee to us on the credit okay could we could we reclassify that as as like a selling expense or something besides call it credit card expense if you would like I mean the rest of counil are you looking at please that is line 54 it says airport misk charges 7500 so that's that's basically our credit card expense on selling fuel to people after hours right or wees associated with credit card purchas okay um other is you've got $44,000 for it expense is that is that the fiber line out there is that computers no there is a particular purp so as everyone knows um few months ago the state contracted with a company called vir Tower they put in the system out there that allows us to now track traffic okay which is a huge plus um there is a there is an additional software package that allows us to Geo fence the airport and get even better data and so staff has asked if we could do that software and that's what that is and then um your you've got between RM General and r&m building you've got $50,000 are we are we putting that into like hanger repair and hanger Improvement what are we putting that into so the RM General would be for the city's buildings that we have for Saints for example whenever we move into the new terminal I think it's the see the council's desire to see if our old terminal is still suitable and if it needs a lot of work or not to run out the whole thing so if we need to make some repairs to it to rent the whole thing that's what that come from arum building is going hangers in the event of an issue that is not covered the insurance I mean it would still pay for that we would get reimbursed if it fell in insurance but yes that's for hangers and then you know just looking at you know operating supplies and office supplies you've got $10,500 between those two accounts is that are we really consuming $10,000 worth of supplies out there at the airport um a lot that um reduce offer suppli off SP increased because of moving into the new building that's going to happen next fiscal year it's a lot bigger building than what we have now so that was anticipation of that okay and then what's equipment less than 5,000 that we're spending 5,000 on all the way yep um that as we had done I believe with the with other departments that did not have so in Enterprise funds Enterprise funds that that didn't have a particular use for that we put 5,000 we can take it out but that's in the case of um if you know a we breaks down they buy out of that um if the mower or we need to push mower we'll buy it out of that so that's why we put that in there but we can reduce it and take it out I mean if you if you I just want to make sure that it's Justified is what I'm asking for there's there's a particular dolly that we were gonna buy this fiscal year we may not get to that this year so if not it would also would come out of that the DOL is in case of a flat tire on a plane plane has a flat tire you just don't roll it there and grab it you'll break the leg off it so we're working through that now if it doesn't happen that's what it come out but that's for again all Enterprise fund should have that at a bare minimum in the case of minor equipment that's needed that they don't anticipate okay thank you m um Kobe how about I'm going to the revenues for the airport I remember one time you when the previous city manager was here you did a presentation and I had asked you how much space are we going to be renting and how much I don't see an increase in rent is that calculated in here I see actual versus well we haven't I mean we have the same number of hangers that we did last year no I'm talking about I thought you were going to rent some office space out there yes correct so that's not that not be here right now so there's office space rental that currently I don't know what the actuals are on that right now but what we do Rent Now is half of the existing FBO we rent that to air methods for their office the only other rental we would be able to do is when we move into the new facility you have the opportunity depending on the condition of the building to rent the other half of the existing FBO and there's going to be additional space in the new facility but again I don't know what that look like so I didn't want to put we didn't put that in there because we don't know I don't know who's going to come out there I don't know how much we're going to generate we've never rented office space like in that manner before so we G to figure out what those rents look like and so but was my understanding that in a month we should be according to Cliff's presentation we should be done with this new and we should be in there so that means in the new fiscal year I can give I'll give you a brief update um staff has a meeting next Wednesday on that it's my anticipation to I'm going to speak with Cliff I don't know if he will be at the next council meeting on the 26th or the 1st of September they will not be done by August 31st not gonna happen so our conversation Cliff's gonna have with staff and I will have with Cliff is what is the next steps what is it that the council has the ability to do or not do that'll be totally up to this board um but we we'll bring that back because they will not be done by all so isn't there fees that we can charge them for every day there and that's I'm getting that's what we mean Cliff being over the CI I'll speak with him he'll have to advise to us what it is we can and can't do based on the contract which legal also do that and yeah so it'll be up to the council if they wish to take action on that or not my my understanding is up until this point they haven't invoked any of the builtin rain days and other mechanisms within the contract that would allow them to extend the date so they my my understanding for any granted this was the last time I T to Cliff when he gave me a tour out there and that's probably been a couple months ago but there in in the existing contract there was significant amount of rain delays and rain days that were already built into the contract that they've not even tapped into that they're they're entitled to tap into so I have a feeling they're probably going to use that first to to complete this out so I I don't know that we'll have a whole lot to say pretty dry it's m it's m or Cliff again I make sure that that change order number four that we did a couple weeks back right was to reconcile all that so they they got their rain days and everything else included in that that's why so that's what the change was for that's why I had a no cost okay so that's why I'm Gonna Leave up he's overse overseeing the CI so I allow to adise uspr yep the first completion was uh the but as Cliff explained when we did the first two change orders we technically extended the date during those change orders to to later in the year so it originally was April but by doing those change orders it bumped it out yeah I just I'd be reminded of that I know that they did y address it believe each change order came with 30 days they did not recognize those that when they did the change order so that's what was talking about they come back and ask for those and that's what change order number four so again I'll let him us okay so when I moved here to defunc was in 2018 I attended marble flight great it's a great event but I don't see us having any revenues for that in here either is there I thought we were going to go back to having the new guy do that because that was a great event and we can we can add that in there later so you'll see the yellow there's a $15,000 expense again I created that staff committee their first order business is to decide on Marvel flight and what we're going to be doing and to buy me recommendation on what we they recommend us how we handle that process one of is going to be if we're going to charge for insurance or not and so we're reduce that 97,000 and it'll make it it'll make it better for us because you don't have that projected at the top but you have an expense at the bottom is that accurate so we can we can look at that and add that in but again it could vary we got to determine what we're going to charge as an entrance fee much we're going to charge and how much we anticipate how many visitors when I think very much like Lake in years past Marvel flight's been supported by some very generous donations from area businesses and I think it could generate like the Christmas Reflections too I think it's a money maker everybody that people enjoy and they don't mind and we've got the opportunity to you know take advantage of that for our residents and I think we really should I think that needs to be a priority of oh yeah we're definitely going to have it and uh I think it would be worthwhile I think it would be smart to charge for it it doesn't have to be anything crazy it's a lot easier than Lake Fest because obviously there's only one way in and one way out so and I think staff has kind of reached out to TDC and some other organizations if they be willing to help with that because we did not did in the past they did but we didn't get a TDC Grant because it has not been a prior event for the last couple years we'll go after that next year but uh TDC maybe want to help out someone so is that is that one of their stipulations is you have to have that event already established us to get the grant no but well established programs like um the Christmas lights you you almost get like a like a multiplier is is a kind of a way to explain it for wellestablished events they give you extra money because you're an established event when you're a new event because we haven't had it for a while they'll consider us a new event again you're only eligible for a smaller po of money right but if you're established event like lake Lake Fest um and um Christmas Reflections they get extra money purely because they've been consistently performing that event and by the time I came on we decided to do Mor F again the window for the grant the T had already closed so that's why I Happ so they may be willing inside their operating budget to help out someone yeah I think if you just put those revenues at the top it'll just it'll reduce that 97,000 that the general fund needs to there this is not getting a transfer from the general yeah that's a cemetery oh that was the cemetery there's no transfer so any increase to revenue would increase your reserves we have thank you Danielle for the correction any other questions out there okay that's uh that's all of them I don't know if there's any other um questions that we containing prior I do the problems Mr Mayor go ahead all right um so let's start with planning so at the top it mentions PL uh for Revenue it mentions that planning doesn't generate revenue and while it doesn't generate Revenue my issue with planning is that for all of these expenses that we're incurring like for example if we go down to line 30 planning legal advertising $6,000 we should be charging a fee that offsets that that legal advertising that we have to do for whatever whatever it is whether it's rezoning whether it's you know development orders whatever the case may be we should be offsetting all of these fees within planning or all of these expenses in planning with with fees so the legal advertising um the engineering review fees the Consulting fees in my my opinion planning should be almost with some exceptions almost pretty much a wash so that that that's been that's my big comment that's the one thing about uh planning is that the the legal advertising there's there's also $1,500 worth of fuel um so that I I want to say that about planning but real quick as I was looking through the budget and Kobe you and I talked about this this afternoon very briefly I think that there's other low hanging fruit that can be addressed uh for example uh which between all of the Departments a grand total of $848 is dedicated to training and there's also $ 49,3 that's guaranteed for travel so that's that's almost $130,000 right there in training and travel and my question that I posed to you this afternoon you know at at 3:45 was what is what is the bare minimum travel and training that we would need to maintain any kind ofr certifications that employees have and in travel you know there for example under HR there's a $5,000 seminar for for something under HR so my personal experience in my career has been there's been years at Sage when I've been allowed to attend conferences and then there's been more years than not where I've been told sorry there's no travel and there's no training budget you're just going to have to continue on and if you want to to get a certification you're going to have to pay for it on your own and we may or may not reimburse you for it so in my mind if we're trying to kind of tighten our belt you know to me that's low hanging fruit the travel and training is low hanging fruit for us to be able to tighten our belt yeah so counc we did me and councilman did talk about this um as I mentioned him I had the ability and Daniel can contest we went through every line item when it came to travel and educ and uh Education and Training staff had to provide what they're going to go to why they needed to go to it and a reasonable cost testing to do so so the ability to take some out is very easy we go to staff and say you need to reduce this you know you need to take one out or you need to take two out what's the minimum they can go and take those out so we can do that um the HR one to 5,000 um Julia has identified that we need to have which we do supervisor training here and so um our labor attorney would do that come in and do supervisor training with discrimination uh all all those things so that's what that ones for for the most part but yeah we can definitely go back that and we did have the specific use for those funds so we can take we can easily doess does that includ those two line items that he's mentioning does that include reimbursements for somebody going to school earning a degree for their position no this was those two line items are strictly and for the and there is a disparity some of it but for the most part travel has a m corresponding expense um to an conference or some sort of training so those kind of match there are some a larger amount in the training line item because employees can do it virtually um I believe in utilities there was two requests to get um CDL license because we're starting to run them um and it's expensive to get people get on CDL get a CDL to go train I did meet with the sheriff's office and they were willing and thankfully to U put us on their fee schedule for for the testing portion which is free so that's wonderful we appreciate them doing that but the training section we still to figure that out so there was there there for two employees to get CDLs but like for you who's getting your working on your Masters whether we're paying for it or not I'm just using you as an example is is that I didn't understand your answer is that in those two line items or is it in a benefit line item somewhere else in personnel so um the way I I read the the city policy um is that people who are pursuing degrees or long-term degrees and want to get it entered into an educational reimbursement contract with the city can do so we budget those we have not had any of those okay um we do like particular fire firefighters right they'll go to firefighter school that's typically a lot less it's a lot less cost in a degree or some sort of professional certification we haven't had those so you would have to say no so there's no line item for that right now so if somebody would come forward and say hey I'd like to get my bachelor's degree it's part of the benefits of the agency what do I need to do would we have to turn them away no I mean we would have to because we don't have the funding we would have to again no one's came forward this budget year so it be one of two options is no we pass that window time window or two we're gonna have to take come of the council see if there if there's funds within that Department's budget to move okay just Carri m have two more things so under it I have one request line 30 um and you you identified this line where you had moved all of the uh subscriptions uh into that that single line item my request is maybe to create some sub uh sub accounts there and and call out what we're what we're spending to Tyler what we're spending to Microsoft what we're spending to Google versus just maybe a general subscription or some sort of renewal I would like to see that broken out it doesn't have to be every single individual vendor but maybe the top five or top three in their online items like like Google like to me Google Microsoft and Tyler should be our top three line items and then maybe you have a catch all line item for for the remaining ones that are you know a th000 bucks here 500 there I would like to see that broken out so that we as a council can understand what we're what we're spending on those and if there's any other you I know I hit Tyler but if there's any others that may be related to Public Works um software or um the water software GIS thank you th those kind of subscriptions I would like to see those broken out again I don't want the list to go crazy but I do want to see kind of the bigger expenses they called out um into into it the only other thing is under copers and plotter of leases if I recall two or three years ago we authorized a lease on the plotter for the planning department correct and my question is now that we've we've had several years under our belt with that lease are we justifying the use of that that plotter for what we're paying for it in other words would it be cheaper to to end that lease whenever it's up it should be pretty close to being up at this point and maybe just go back out to when when we need something printed we either go to and ask the county to do it which I know is what we kind of did in the past or maybe we even use one of the local print shops downtown maybe work out some sort of deal with them where they can they can you know print something off I I just want to understand are we getting our money's worth out of that that plotter lease because I know it was a pretty big ticket item okay um so the first one the it subscriptions we can do that with the large ones I don't think there an issue um Jesse does have a very comprehensive list of every subscription we have here me and him went through that um and so we have that as well so we can look at that especially large ones like Tyler I mean that's 60 something 60 something thousand doll that's pretty significant um and then the cap leas yeah we can we can see what that cost is um I know Chris does a lot of printing of the plans review plans and stuff that he looks at but again we can take a see what the lease cost and see how often he's using it is worth it I think I think that's a good point to bring up because to me when when I worked at uh the subsidiary down in Fort Walen for sage they went completely paperless and they actually designed their own internal system to be completely paperless they only had two copies for over 200 employees two copers no desktop printers whatsoever and it was like a breath of fresh air because nobody was running around printing stuff out 247 if they needed they needed to look at something they had their own built-in document management system pulled up a PDF they looked at it they zoomed in they zoomed out whatever they needed to do but nobody printed stuff it was extremely rare to have people print stuff and I think we need to encourage our employees to get to that you know there there's I don't get me wrong there's times when I do want to print stuff out but there's also times where maybe we can equip our employees with bigger monitors or additional monitors and not have the expense of hit print on a on a set of plans just because we want to be able to see see it till it touch it versus it being on a TV that that's in that's now installed in their uh area that they can actually throw it up on and actually look at it on on a bigger screen to me to me that's more economical than than a plotter lease we can um we can definitely do more um we have been begun doing that especially when I went out we started transitioning over Adobe for electronic signature so I get very little paper signatures which is good and I remember a year ago I probably would through 40 piece of paper a day so they did that and finan um I've stopped getting a stack of payables about this big that takes me about an hour and a half to sign physically we've got to a much more efficient system I can go through review them electronically get my approval or denial ask questions and move forward so we're starting to work that way and hope we can we can do a little faster fantastic thank you Mr Mayor just on that note I just want to say I mean don't forget that people do have to fill out a lot of forms manually so we ask citizens to fill things out by hand so there is going to be a reasonable amount of printing uh when customers are coming you know residents are coming in for things especially in planning and you have something else because I had a different question go ahead G wait wait planning um where is the revenue or where where are the fees that we collect on everything going and planning it's in the general fund so I mean you could say it gener oper it does you know generate Revenue in a sense we left all the general fund departments to not say that because we have a general fund budget that we put these in but it's um I mean there's various ones let me go to my other one 42 is planning revie fees let me go the one I yes sir so again it goes through different ones so that was his first one you got a total other license and permits temporary use permits comes out of planning pedal permit that comes out of the PD was very little anyways um go down General Zing fees planning review fees lean search Revenue where's that what number total planning so these are your general General planning revenues and then you've got uh code enforcement related ones court fines court order violation fees now that that Court find the first one is is his ticket money one of them is uhy so they're in here so they're not okay [Music] substantial so you you've already started in terms of reviewing uh to make sure that we're covering all our cost on those yeah so like we had we had talked about the ks I think it's a desire for everyone here to raise those fees so I'm going to follow Chris I want to rephrase that I don't want us to raise our fees I want us to cover our cost yeah which is gonna yeah if it if it requires raising because we're not saying the numbers together because they're se you know because be yeah I mean we want to cover our cost we don't want to overcharge people but we don't want to run in the red constantly on everything correct because then it means that we have to charge more water yeah okay yeah yeah we I we're pling is working on that against some surrounding comparables see what what those are around usar I have a couple questions in it basically back to it so it's just an observation I mean it is what it is but if there's something special maybe you can tell us phones cost us 65,000 and internet cost us 55,000 in planning yeah in it it is the in total General General funding Department correct the agency corre it's just that's where we capture it so we can see it as a whole yep okay all right now we go back to the plotter because it's on it and it's line 23 the one I guess that's the one Todd was talking about is that the one that planning is using and why is it charged to it yeah every every um copier and printer in the city is charged under that because to it cor yeah yeah they're the catch off general fund uh Information Technology charge services so like the plotter is in in the in the um mail room conference room we have one upstairs we have one over po Works we've got one the police department various departments that GNA be in that mean Potters we do need to cut back on some there one plotter the train yeah there's one plotter and it's over here in the mail room but it's for planning right yeah Public Works uses it I mean the various departments use it they use it for mapping sewer Cemetery technically I think is printed out on but not not it products so finances I'm assuming F I didn't look yet but Finance is covering their Tyler Cost and there all of that's in this division that's why you see so high under the 229 correct we that's a I mean it's a substantial expense it's 60 or 70,000 yes exactly we moved into it because because y'all can solidate everything to it listen I think it's a wonderful capture where you can see it as one I just want to clarify that that's but now if it's Enterprise related it should be an Enterprise it should not be in General Revenue yes but I'm sure our new Finance director whoever's do that you know that'll be part of that function and I think she's already done a great job trying to get us going towards that direction Enterprise FS pays for har well we've got the old city hall building revenue from that sale right listed in here we had a conversation with some gentlemen that wanted to buy the basically the lake I guess at the water tower out on Cor burges I don't know what's happened to that but as far as looking for Revenue um that's still possibly out there you know if they're interested in doing that and we're interested in uh moving that piece of property to those those gentlemen whoever ends up buying it I don't think they care one way or other which one buys it or both or whatever their deal is but um that's a that's a pretty good U little sale right there that could help us out a little bit budget wise y so quick update um is Mr barefield Mr Hall Mr Hall uh is the one who would purchase the property he's the one his family is one who previously owned it we have quotes to do the survey the Halls have express interest that they be willing to pay for half of that survey or share cost I don't know what that looks like yet so I'm waiting on Le to tell me how we go about doing that how can I enter into that with him myself or to bring that to the council so that's why I wait I'm waiting to meet with Clay on that um but once that's done the halls of their attorney sent a letter on what they would um potentially pay per acre so again I don't know exactly what that cost is yet what that's going to look like in Revenue because once the survey goes out there I'll meet with Mr Hall we will lay the line out that's going to cross the property so you could you could be plus minus an acre whereever look don't but I thought we have to receive bids on that though so in my conversations with legal and he you know he may come to a different May s something different um he didn't see there being um potentially being an issue with selling it back to the previous property owner and that's that's conversation we've had he's had with their attorney um and so again that's why I'm going to bring it back to y'all as a whole um very relatively soon when he get time to review that so he can give us further guidance if we if we can sell directly or we have to go out for bit so if I wanted to buy it you're saying you're GNA exclude that's me and or another these are the exact reasons I did not bu exactly that's fine not in there yeah because that sounds okay it could it could be morally correct too of Old City Hall in this budget have we mitigate put mitigation costs in of what might reduce those if we have to negotiate um so like like we had spoke about um I'm waiting on I'm going to follow up CCB they are supposed to be Drafting and an identification that um they would need to approve and send to us if that's something this council is willing to do and Clay feels comfortable with so we'll bring all that to you um but again the cost we would just have to identify what that may or may not be and set that aside out of out of the proceeds yeah that's what we're going to have to do because we don't know so right now that 1.8 could be reduced based on whatever we say up to a certain amount potentially I mean it depends on what D um finds in their assessment if we we get to that point they may find nothing they may find $400,000 worth of mitigation we don't know point exactly I just want to kind of when we're doing the math on figuring out okay that means that our deficit could be even larger if we have to reduce some of that 1.8 to 1.3 so he parked every of that money yeah that's why we left it the re whole the whole revenue is the whole expense of maintenance for that particular reason we did not bust it up we had discussed that we're not going to do that when we get to that point when the council we bring those projects to you and if youall approve certain ones we will then transfer that money to the appropriate Department to do such that's why it's sitting all together right now not bus of thank you that's uh that's all we happened now mayor um I don't know if there's any other questions I believe Danielle has we kind Express desire maybe to have one more of these in terms of because there is some questions I don't know if y'all want to do that at the regular meeting you I don't ask extensive some of the questions may be so that's to to the council what was what was the cola increase amount the percent Two and A half% okay I we just one more of in I agree Danielle thank you by the way to you and Kobe this is the best one I've ever seen in three years very comprehensive I'll all right then yeah come ahead Rel the SS again um I just have a couple things regarding po two and a half% as most of y'all know I a spouse's wife an employee spouse's wife and your two and a half% is going to be $18 a week for my husband that doesn't even C cover an eyeglass copay under y'all's insurance averaging my husband's mechanic here for the city who has saved at the shop that shop saved yall thousands on a boom truck thousands that they rebuilt oil taex and lotex are typically paid starting at 17 an hour well vered mechanics are making over 20 you know most other local cities are starting at 18 the Social Security Cola index increase for 2024 was over three we're only doing two and a half for our employees what is that for folks like us that are suffering because of this thank you Kobe for not taking RS if that's truly what you're going to do this year we greatly appreciate it um you know where did our Healthcare dollars go that we're saving swapping plans where's that money going they're they're in they're just in the budget yeah exactly but that was saving money out of in you know potential the city saved all this money in health care we're still paying out for you know Vision Dental this kind of thing co-pays at the doctor my husband went today a $60 co-pay that $18 a week doesn't even cover that I can't even get my own prescription classes because the city's vision coverage covers $125 for frames doesn't cover lenses my lenses are $385 y'all really need to think about your employees that have doing their jobs Merit increases are listed in your personnel policy we haven't seen them and I know my husband hasn't been here long but he does a darn good job for y'all and y'all know that so y'all need to take a look at buying back your time there is no buyb until you leave for your vacation or your comp my husband currently has 103 hours of vacation hours when's he going to use them he needs to be at the shop he has 78 and sick he would have more had he not gotten covid two weeks ago and he has 16 and a half of holiday comp so this two and a half% $18 a week I really wish yall would reconsider that because my husband's not the only one thank you guys thank you anyone else did you put money to that yeah it be appropriate of yeah okay um so a lot of consideration went into what I recommended I can I can rest assure that um a lot of conversations with City Marshall because I do value his opinion greatly on what he does for the city as well um so we came up with a two and a half% yes Social Security index to go up I think 3.1 or 3.2 I looked at all the Freds I looked at the feds I've looked at the bureau layer statistics I've been through it all um and so that's where that number came from because it was my goal and my intention hopefully to implement a sellack program for annually Danielle's working on that that's something I did recommend at the last meeting I think it is a wonderful benefit for the employee and also a benefit to the city to reduce um com compensated absences in terms of uh the healthcare um we're coming to open enrollment hopefully the um our process is going out to bids reducing our health care which depending on the plan you had could have been anywhere from $40 to $100 you ever take um so I would encourage you know your husband to look at that and especially since we have three plans one is a co-pay plan that does not provide an HRA account the other two do and so if you're employee only one of them provides $1600 on H card the other one provides $1,800 on H card if you're employee only if you pay for the uh dependant it's um 3600 and 3,000 respectively the6 3,000 will cover the total max out of pocket of that particular plan again that was something we had did we had done um instead of doing the previous percentage which would have made that less I thought that was a benefit Council was so willing to um leave that at the max out pocket which I think is a wonderful thing for employees and so that's how I came up with those numbers that's how we come to that and uh again com to and a half because I would love to Institute a buyback program and I believe that's been favorable and hopefully we can do so and that know you just said this to me but what was the cost on that 2 and a half% it's right at $450,000 um I would do I think it was somewhere between 400 $425,000 you because they when I give you numbers I'm giving you whole numbers right I'm giving you salary workman comp insurance taxes retirement all that comes in to be about 200 400 to $425,000 could we if we meet again can you break that out so that uh extract out the Enterprise funds from that how much is the general fund of that value because it's not the whole 400 that's for everybody right which includes the Enterprise fund so of that 450 how much is just the general fund I would want yeah that's not g be a big chunk Poli Fire come out of the general fund and that's that's the two biggest ones by far well and they're the highest cost of retirement too which is the biggest chunk ofre yeah I can that's not difficult okay that still that's going to be like 10 10 employees at least just for the three utility funds you got six 17 employees and utilities 17 oh okay don't yeah uh 17 out the 127 yeah so you have 110 employees that fall okay y clear Chris May the next Workshop every's here got why everybody starting to go down so I can I can talk you into something you don't want to [Laughter] do so I don't know schedules Thursday September 5th Tuesday SE 3rd tree board on okay third you got my code land use Review Committee yep um there's about well that's Labor Day is the second there's a Wednesday There's a Friday I we can do itth the 29th Thursday the 29th so a little over a week from now I'm fine with the 29th our off me that's our off no the 29th is is uh not this Thursday but next oh Thursday I'm fine s you we didn't work up anything Thursday how much time are we going to we anticipate for the last next THS for just a recap or whatever we're g like 8 hours yeah cuz this one started at 4:00 it's like I don't think and it wasn't that big I'm telling you y'all y'all y'all missed the four of y'all missed out on mcnight going through the budget line by line y'all missed out oh no I would had AUM is everyone good with the 29th Thursday the 29th four o' I know is my wife yeah four o' get that I think I'm good with that okay ra send that out tomorrow all right thank you very much thank you [Music]