tenure as interim city manager and how would be how would one measure that could you help me understand that because I you know me I'm a thinker and I I want to go back and I'm gonna look I think I think it's very simple we're gonna ask Mr Townson for his resume and work experience and we'll take a look at it obviously he will have at that point in time nine months as a local government administrator that's not three years so he will not meet that prong but the question is well that nine months can you couple that with 25 additional months at least of time that was yeah it would be 27 you need 27 additional months of manage your experience in various Departments of local government based on current ordance based on the current ordance and where did that language come from clay that that that is in that existing been since 1984 with the only change being the local government administrator from city manager so it goes back to 1984 I believe um my recollection of that process was the mayor at the time was of the mindset to create the position of city manager to allow day-to-day operations of that and um had a large hand in the opinion that and my concern is I don't want it looking like we're changing something to allow ow him to meet the minimum qualifications because of all these other folks that have in good faith come to us and put their name in the Hat so that is exactly what I'm concerned so councilman Val's point on that I think is well taken I have a suggestion that the council would entertain it reject all pending applications and direct HR to remove the advert remove all advertisements at this point in time until the council determines if it desires to update the minimum qualifications if you do update the minimum qualifications I would recommend that an advertisement be posted with those new minimum qualifications allow anyone who wishes to apply under those including Mr Townson if he is so qualified at that point to apply and you can then evaluate it that would that would solve your issue then you would at least have a fair position of what the minimum qualifications off although candidly having minimum qualifications stopped us from getting a lot of applicants that know close Miss so I would just let me let me clean up a motion here we got a motion little correct correct which is what to allow her to reject all qualified yeah as of the current ordinance let's clean that up and we'll continue okay all right so we got a second are we going to clean up to reject all applicants I'm not done with the discussion I don't want to go there yet well no I'm just saying now right now all we're dealing with is those that are clearly unqualified anybody that comes in unqualified that's the motion yeah and that that'll happen me this term next term any term y you know this will just let us clean up a lot of people that shouldn't be on that list so is she gonna do it let's just say that this doesn't work out is she gonna do it from that point forward because I don't want it to keep do I don't want to keep jumping back and forth she anybody that's unqualified if you pass this motion she's going to notify everybody that's unqualified today they're unqualified if she gets an application whether it be on a weekly bi-weekly whatever her is that wasn't my point though just so you're well that's all the motion's about is her rejecting okay yeah we we kind of got on little different leg here okay okay all right so any other questions about this motion it's on the table well I guess before we go to a vote I'm I'm considered amending my motion to reflect the recommendation of the City attorney because I I do believe at this juncture that might be a cleaner operation to simply just reject all and proceed with closing the position we can then proceed with uh with Mr Townson for you want withdraw and call well he can amend his motion I think that's what he's saying he's debating doing that yeah I I'm debating doing that so that's why I kind of I was hoping that we can allow the discussion a little a little longer I just didn't want to leave a active motion sitting here sure time um that's that's my opinion is that we we probably should amend the motion to uh reflect the city attorney's uh recommendation and to me that's a clean councilwoman that addresses your concern we we close the position and then I would add to it and again we could probably discuss this after the motion's completed would be we then set some clear goals for Mr Townson I know that he has talked with me directly about setting some some clear and defined goals so that when we do get to the six seven eight month Mark we have some criteria that we can clearly judge him by he he understands where his goal posts are we also understand and can can rate him between now and then on how he's doing achieving his goals so with that I would like to amend my motion to reject all applicants at this point and close the position I'm in my second I couldn't you were okay all right so the motion has been amended any questions mayor if I might so um I think the council everybody knows here that when I spoke to each of you I gave you the same spill I gave you the same story I didn't change it for anyone um I'm here for the good of the city to do what's best for the city so um and um if this something Council doesn't want to do but I will agree that was one of my things was a goalpost right some sort of evaluation how are we doing where we at um I think that's crucial my staff's gonna be crucial for staff's going to get them if they're going to do it I'm G to do it so I would I would request that from all of you um but in terms of you know we get down the road and you want to do that in six seven eight months however yall want to do it that's I would love to do that right I'd love for you to see that progress and see what we're doing here and judge me on that and then in terms of ordinance ch ple up to the city but I I will say and I've mentioned this to someone di I'm not here to be the exception I'm here to be the standard for the city so we do not need to be change I don't want to change the ordinance to become an exception right so we move forward I'm same thing with staff we're hiring here these people are here to be the standard and so that's what I hope we continue to do um so to follow up with what he just said I don't want our process to consider Toby Kobe as the person for this I want to do it as no matter what we set if it happens again that this is a process it's already established we don't have to go back through this again and um I appreciate what you've said Kobe I'm not ready to set any goals for you as the interim particularly right now um I want the process as a whole whether you were sitting there or not uh just to be consistent so that we have a process in in place and I I completely agree and I and I would fully support maybe once we get past this motion uh a following motion to hold a special meeting a special um should we do Workshop or should we do meeting but either way we can we can figure that out here in a moment to not only set goals for his future evaluation but for the process as well if you would like to define the process in ordinance and we considering some ordinance changes already now would be the time to go ahead and start working on that well for example and I agree because for example we had a lot of people with Federal experience that had some wonderful veteran background history history that they wanted to do this but that's not local government I mean when you look at the definition in the statute Federal experience is not considered local or state and you had to re and if it's me to the letter of the word I rejected them and it's like she should not be bringing those forward shouldn't be wasting our time to me she could have eliminated those and said I'm sorry you don't meet the minimum qualifications thus I'm not going to bring bringing those forward to me that's Justified and that's what she should be doing as her role uh and that's what you're asking to be done right now is and I'm just saying let's be consistent if she's going to do it she needs to do it forever you know we have to evaluate the people that are eligible but she should be able to on our behalf say you I'm sorry you don't meet the minimum qualifications uh you're not you won't be mov it would eliminate a lot of well what we're doing there's not be any applications coming in if this motion passes all right so everybody understands the motion all right any other questions from anyone can I make one more comment yeah go ahead I think one of the greatest things about so my comments so far have just been strictly relating to the liability associated with current ordinance I don't want to jump back on that because we're about to clean fix that piece in a minute I think but I want everybody to understand that I support Kobe 100% I think that he is doing a great job I think we do have a little bit of cleanup to do but one of the greatest things about Kobe so far has been that not only is he earning our respects in that position already but he already has with with his peers and the people that he works with and I think that by holding another special meeting we could get the public a chance to sit here and listen to him as well and and let them see the same things that we are and get their Buy in on this process moving forward and and they're backing on it as well so that we don't run into any other issues so that's all I got I'm sorry okay so we have a motion and a second any other question all in favor say I hi hi hi I I Carrie thank you very much all right do we want to discuss a either a special meeting or a six month evaluation yeah I'd like to make a like to make a motion that uh staff organize a special meeting because if we call it a special meeting we can take action we have Workshop we can't take any action so let's just call it a a special meeting uh to discuss the hiring process uh in ordinance as well as um goals for the interim city manager um and we'll just leave it at that we'll leave it broad so we can we can talk would you be willing if we did called it a workshop and then just brought up forward all the things that we learn and discuss uh you know so we can ponder we can take you know audience participation I know I just don't vote that quickly Todd I like to I like to ponder what we discuss and what we I I I I hear what you're saying but it's not it's not necessarily that we're it's not necessarily that we're forced into take any action but if we call it a workshop and then we all five agree that we want to take some particular action whether it's you know amend the ordinance change this within the ordinance whatever the case may be you know pay paint paint the walls blue right I'm just do if we call a work we can't do it that night but we can do it at the very next meeting right but to a certain extent if we're all here and we've made that effort to come prepared to to have done the research to be present at that meeting I think we should have the Liberty to make to take action at that meeting well I'll say this you're not going to be able to amend the ordinance at the meeting but at a special meeting you would be able to direct staff what changes to bring back for first and second reading it's a workshop you we won't be a proceed with that that's your but there is no permanent change that can be affected in a special meeting I do not believe this would constitute an emergency ordinance under Florida State and again here here's some of my consternation in the past my experience has been when we call it workshops and then we get to the workshop because it's a workshop they'll be a lot of that right there and a lot of from I don't think us and that's what but what what I'm I know but what I'm getting at is in the past I have experienced at a workshop what I thought was consensus on something and then staff didn't whereas if it's a vote it's definitive and it's clear and and I I've run into that several times where we've held workshops on various topics and I saw heads nod and I thought there was consensus but then staff or other people didn't have that same interpretation whereas if we we take a vote it's very clear so again I'm not trying to force you into making any long-term decisions but it gives us that flexibility that like clay said if we want to direct staff on a particular topic related to what we're discussing we have that ability versus then delaying it another week or two weeks to the next meeting it's just giving us flexibility I'll just keep that in mind please that I like time to ponder and think so even though and we're going to discuss it we're going to make you're all going to want to make decisions It's just sometimes you just this is too big of a change and I don't want to have to come back to the table M multiple times I want to kind of get it right you know what I mean but I can only talk to you guys at the C at the DI so I need more time than that after we talk to ponder what it is that we said and that's that's my point I need time to ponder what we say as a group and what we've heard so it would be the general consensus that we would have the meeting talk about everything y'all can make motions to direct and we would bring that would be fine that would be that would be fine that's right right I think my motion was to hold a special meeting for those two topics the two topics were um goals of the city manager dinner manager and the Orion thank you in the hiring process yeah part of yeah and we got a second right yes sir all right any other question comments yeah go ahead um and and this can to be discussed later I'm not familiar with a city manager hired on 12month contract I not correct well whatever contract you can be if you okay so that's open so what is the evaluation process for an in place city manager as far as evaluation at what is there an evaluation during that historically it's been six months or annual it's been one of the two um it is usually set by the city manager's contract that is awarded at the time they are hired as an evaluation is done at that point is we say when we're going to evaluate in one instance for to give one example we did evaluations every six months because there were pay raises structured after six and 12 months along an 18-month contract so so that's so that standard whatever been past practice would be reasonable for for Kobe in my in my opinion I think unless we wanted to shorten it but the clock is ticking on he already started the job so the sooner we get this decided you know the sooner we can um perhaps better evaluate him yeah I need to be out of town so I'm going to be gone for a couple weeks and I won't be at the very next meeting I need an excused absence for the May 13th meeting so whatever we do you're you're an elected official you're allowed to miss me I know but I read something that if you don't get an excuse that your fellow councilman can do can do something so anyway I'm just sharing that with you so when we schedule this special when we schedule this special meeting could we please do it after uh my return which would be uh the 18th of May so so the idea is not to schedule this special meeting between now and next meet the next special meeting on May 13th that's not the thought yeah I won't be back in town until the 18 that's a regular meeting regular meeting right I will not be here on the regular meeting yeah of course when right the middle of the month we got L Fest G be very busy around here we'll find a time in coordinate with okay okay we have a motion second any all in favor say I I I I all I uh car thank you very much Julie you good I am all right Mr W coming for a second reading yes sir this is a second reading and a public hearing for adoption anyone wishing to speak on agenda item 5 A1 which is second reading of 2024 SSA 05 small scale map Amendment needs to be swor in at this time that includes person just want to ask questions this is a quas i judicial proceeding that will include staff and the applicant any represent the applicants so this time anyone wishing to speak stand raise their right hand repeat after me Mr W since you're the only one raising right am we'll do this in short form do you swear or affirm the testimony you present will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do fa staff is sworn that would be Theon we receive yes thank you this is Mr Busby's request for a small scale map amendment to Amit the future Lan use map from agriculture to Industrial this is for the property located directly CL across Highway 90 from us if you recall at the first meeting Mr crenchaw was here with some objections um I've spoke with both he and the applicant who are both present tonight they have worked out their um differences they had a meeting on Friday so Mr kinshaw has no objections to this request at this time Mr Wallace is this consistent with Land Development count comprehensive plan it is can I can I just make a comment real quick I I I I want to reiterate what I saw from last time um we came one vote shy of potentially denying this request and as clay just asked Mr Wallace if they have met all of our requirements it doesn't matter what somebody 20 feet from the property or somebody 20,000 miles from the property does or doesn't like about that change if they have met all the requirements we have an obligation to approve that zoning request change by law if we don't approve it they can sue us and they will win if if if you have any doubt about that ask the county about Florida Power and Light with that solar farm north of the county it's a perfect current day example of how quickly things will change when you don't approve something simply because you don't like it even though it met all the requirements so I just want to be very very clear and Clay again correct me if I'm wrong if they meet all the requirements we have an obligation to approve it not just vote no because you know somebody came up here and pulled on our heart strings qua so you have two types of Land Development hearings that you'll engage in when do one is quasi judicial you'll note those because they're the ones where I swear people in the other are what we call legislative in legislative of both first you are a legislative body you have the broadest discretion that you'll ever get and basically you can make decisions based on what is in the best interest of the cityes that mean you get to just completely ignore the comprehensive plan that you can't just completely ignore all of your written policy and things things of that nature if you've adopted the comp plan and it says X Y and Z is encouraged well I don't like that well you might need something a little bit more than that to deny it but there is no presumption to receiving the change the standard that courts will review is much more differential to you in a legislative decision why is ey judicial is do why is ey judicial the decision of the board must be supported by competent substantial evids so for instance in today's hearing you have your planner has entered a staff report you have the planner who is the only sworn testimony you've received and he says it is consistent with Land Development code and comprehensive Plan and there's been no evidence so when that's closed there's no evidence before you to make any other fighting so if you say no we deny and they sue us and they said wait nobody said anything Council denied it even if y'all all sit up here and give me all your reasons why you're going to deny it if it's not in the record the judge is going to look at three things did you give them due process did you follow the essential requirements of the law was your decision supported by confident and substantial evidence there's no evidence in the record no you're going to fail on the THM prong every single time so ultimately it comes down to this if you dislike what you're seeing getting approved in terms terms of small scale amendments resoning and similar Clause ey judicial improvements you as the legislative body have the utmost prerogative to change the code to make sure that doesn't happen again in the future can't change it Midstream on someone that's inappropriate you can however correct that in the future so when you see these things you see the people coming forward to the members of your constituency they're saying we don't want this Mr Wallace get us that chance we've done that several times with various things around the city over the past two or three years where we said we don't want to see that again so we change it we update and it doesn't happen again that's why we're going through a code in land use Review Committee here but once that project's before you under your existing Land Development code you're required to give grant them an approval unless you are presented with confident substantial evidence that it is not consistent or otherwise comptible is that consistent with what you understand I would agree yep but substantial evidence is not someone just standing up at the podium and saying I don't like it correct that is absolutely that is absolutely been recognized by Florida courts to not constitute competent or substantial evidence person's mere opinion is not sufficient to overcome the technical factors that are reviewed by your plan canot be speculative factors either motion to hold second reading and approve uh for 2024 ssa5 second all right any other questions th all in favor say I I I nay i i i car thank you very much thank you m need to state that he doesn't need to read by title this is ordinance number 968 968 an ordinance adopting a smallscale landuse map Amendment of the city defunc Springs conference the plan changing the land use classifications repealing all ordinances in Conflict herewith providing for severability and conflicts providing for codification and providing for an effective date thank you very much all right thank you okay uh we'll open the floor up now for citizen comments anyone wants to comment to the council you're welcome to the podium at this time all right we will close the floor for public comments uh clay you got anything no sir all right um on our legislative request we have councilman Valley with the TP update thank you your honor um we did have recently a TPO Workshop um it was held in Freeport and uh other than two elected officials and two members of egund there was one Dr aresco who showed up late and and um you know it's it's unfortunate because there a lot of things that are going on but we don't we often don't get citizen participation at the early level when we're actually putting these things together and really forming it um you know unfortunately we don't get that participation until the end when um things are already starting happen and you know the hores left the barn and it's really just too late but um with that said we did have a a TPO meeting this last week and um in advance of that I've been notified of some unfortunate news it's not entirely unexpected but 83 realignment with 331 uh turned out to be infeasible U because of the wetlands that are there um I I haven't gotten the formal report yet but that is uh what I've been passed along from staff with that said that item was uh on the uh funded list at number 16 previously My Hope Is that we will actually just go ahead and pull that as a city uh and if everyone would agree we would I would make that uh move the TPO and then as part of that we have another item at number 18 on that list which is the complete streets uh road diet which would be the improvements on 90 adjacent to the downtown and uh east of 83 so what I'm hoping to do um and again the dot did the study for us as a preliminary study so it wasn't a full study but it was a preliminary study because there were some concerns about that but with this they're uh my hope is to actually do a lane elimination study and it's it's not cost to us what it is is do agreeing to do it and um we had received verbal uh direction that that was you know a very strong possibility and so I would like permission to pursue that as part of my uh TPO Duty so my requests are two-part uh make a motion to remove uh the option three 83 realignment with 331 uh bearing confirmation of the fdot report that it is not viable and and uh the uh permission to pursue uh the lane elimination study for number 18 the us990 complete streets project second okay we hand both all right okay all right we have a motion in second and you know I knew that was going to be a massive massive undertaking that is one big nasty swamp I sure was hoping we could get something over well they had you know previous dot offices had had bued that as well we're not we weren't the first to to look at that option uh there was some push back from the city in a previous attempt uh this time the city was on board but they just had to get past the the technical aspects I I actually think if they did an elevated Road through there it would be fantastic because it would be uh unencumbered by any turn Lanes in and out and it would it would maintain flow it really would have taken care of a lot of our residents the north on 83 that have to deal with that dog leg uh in the mornings I will say anyone that that doesn't know uh 83 is going to be getting resurfaced along with 331 uh that's why the that's why the manhole covers are so bumpy right now they've adjusted the height on those while they resurface and then they'll come back in with the new ones uh we had to pay for those by the way and then the other thing that will happen is they're going to be adding two turn Lanes uh south from both directions on 90 so 90 and 331 headed south will have two lanes turning from both directions from both the East and the West so uh there are going to be some changes coming there um very soon and that's still in line the uh light at uh I 10 which I'm sure you're seeing a lot of the incidents that are going on over there uh ramp improvements I don't know for sure but I know that they had the light coming but I think I think it's both ramps yes Mr Mayor go ahead Tony what are the possibilities I don't remember the exact term but are there any possibilities of converting that the i1 interchange intersection into is it called a Double Diamond Exchange H I don't think we're busy enough for for those kinds of changes what they're looking at right now is just improving the safety of the intersection I saw it so I actually ran into uh what's called a Double Diamond interchange uh in my wife's Hometown in Missouri um and the first time I went through it I was like what in the world is going on but I since looked them up figured out what they were called and looked them up and and ha just what happens that that that interchange is like one of the first places they've ever implemented it um but it's a it's a fascinating idea because what it what it does is it allows traffic to flow more freely it it you look at it you think this doesn't make any sense but when they actually run the traffic counts it reduces the amount of left-hand turns and so it allows traffic to just stay longer green lights there's less green lights you can see a variation on it um at The Interchange on Highway 20 going under um uh under that nville in nville headed to the Muay Bridge that's a very small kind of sort of similar interchange but the one I'm talking about is more elongated and it was just so happened that the one that I drove through was at an inter Interstate interchange uh there in Missouri so it would be really cool if we could get get that implemented because it would I think help with north north south flow it does it does move a lot quicker you don't have to wait on the lights it's better for the traffic flow on 331 that as we as the intersection grows and the traffic grows because we're still rural technically for a little while longer um enjoy it while we can um and enjoy it when you're buying things because it makes a big difference in terms of your home purchasing ability but um we will inevitably see that uh For Better or Worse what's proposed at 98 and 331 will be a a flyover so the the Northbound turns will actually be a ramp so that's going to be a dramatic change from what we're accustomed to and the and that you know rural quality that we've experienced on the south end for so long is is going to be gone the only solutions they have on 20 just just give you a little bit of what I've got update wise on other things on 20 is going to be similar they have no no new options or no good options for the um for the mitigation of the concerns that you're seeing 20 and 331 so uh really the only thing they can do there would be a flyover eventually uh they are talking about the three lane widening between Black Creek and City Hall but that's pretty much going to be the extent of what they're going to be able to do in the short term um I did request the TPO as part of an egund conversation look at 283 uh in terms of some passing Lanes um looking at Mossy Head the amount of of Home sites that are available there is shocking I mean it's it blew my mind when I really started looking at it and when you look at affordable housing for our soldiers uh that is one of the few places that you can go because right now what you have to do is you have to go through Crest View it's not just getting to Crest View it's getting through Crest View and north where the development is happening whereas some people are actually bypassing that traffic on 85 85 yeah 85 and then taking 283 and then going back AC yeah so and then going back across from Mossy Head over to uh to Crestview because the traffic is so bad um if we had some passing Lanes on on our segment going into M head it would it would mitigate a lot of the safety hazards because it's not really turn lanane hazards it's really just people passing that's creating the danger there but that would open a Avenue for that affordable housing that the base needs there and it would uh give people another route option another safe option so there's a lot going on and that's what that organization does it's it's like it's more boring than watching grass grow um it really is it's the most boring thing you'll ever do but it's it's important and it's and it's it's setting you up for the future we sure appreciate your diving into it so we have a motion to second we have a motion to Second any other questions all them in favor say I I I I Gary thank you very much Kobe any comments b n b I'm sorry oh yeah B one again really I just wanted to get an update on I believe that they had identified some of the brakes and some of other issues they were just waiting on some timer repairs or isolating some of the timers correct so they fixed all the valves and timers downtown um the line does run all the way to Firestone um the reason they found that out is when they turned the system on to find these brakes a bed down there just started filling up water so they're identifying all the brakes in the line to fix it so that's why it hasn't been running either but once they do that it will be up and running okay I I know um no one gets scared if you see someone out there with pruners or or you know gallons of water around the trees that's me and I'm not trying to kill them and that's other people too because we we're actually just going out there and watering by hand the trees when when they get dry for too long so we're just trying to protect those those nuttle Oaks because I believe Bruce had helped out Bruce Naylor had helped out with those and and they're really a fantastic asset they really help control the the climate down there and in the summer they're great because they lose their leaves and allow sunshine in the winter and and shade in the summer so they're really starting to grow especially the one at Suare that thing's getting flower water and it's daily daily flow food yeah so that thing's blowing up like the other ones can't imagine but but I appreciate it but anything you can do and um if we do have a a real hard uh drought um I may come back and ask for some Port if we don't have the sprinklers fixed yet maybe get some watering a cart or something to help with some irrigation maintenance expects to be done by in the next week for giv other that's what they expect to be done I think we'll be okay thank you sir thank you you say you're clear um I think I do have some yeah just wanted to let y'all know that the Auditors will be on site tomorrow to start their field work I have a question on that sorry to extend the meeting uh Morgan we are kind of on a little bit of a compressed timeline with the Auditors um so I would like to asked the question um to have the Auditors maybe come before us and give us an answer on if we commit X number of people FTE or whatever you want to call it will we ensure that we get it in by the deadline in other words if they've got two people allocated to it right now and we can commit to four people and pay pay whatever that cost um I'm I'm of the opinion that we we should have a clean AIT but we should also have a timely audit so I would like to know as a council or at least I would like to know as a council member if it's we pay to have two more people allocated to us and that ensures beyond a shadow of a doubt that we will get our audit in on time I would like to know that information whatever whatever it may be and it it they may say Hey you need 20 people and we just can't afford it I would at least understand what that looks like okay I'll have that conversation with them I don't know does does the rest of the council you mean their people or our people their their people in other words if they we they they bid it out and I'm sure they have an idea of how many people they're going to throw at the problem and if I want them to number one be on the record just like the previous one was the previous one told us repeatedly we were going to be on time I want that on the record from the current one as well will we be on time if not what will it take to be on time is it additional Manpower what is it I want them on the record early because I do not want to repeat last time and again I want to say this for the record again we were told as a council repeatedly you were going to have an audit it was going to be on time and it was the previous Auditors that that that basically delated so can I just tell you from my perspective it's going to also vary based on what they find and what they run into Todd and like if I was going to be that person I wouldn't sit up here and guarantee you anything because I don't know what I'm going to find or what I'm going to run into I can tell you my best guess based on what I'm seeing but just don't be too harsh on when they say but I too am concerned we have a very short timeline and to get us from April 22nd to June 30th that's G to be that's going to be a Monumental task but my my view as a leader is to remove barriers and so I want as a leader to look them in the eye and say what barriers do you have to not complain leading this and how I I as a leader as well as the rest of the council can remove those barriers to ensure that they have a we could have started earlier that's that's one of the things I mean I do feel like we're part of the problem because we didn't even go out to bid for this until well after the start of the fiscal year and that's when they should have started our workload was back in October because it does take some time I'm just saying I I'm I'm going to agree with what you're saying I'm just not going to be disappointed when they can't guarantee it to us um I would say that it is going to vary depending on what they find and also the amount of support that they get from us as long as we're providing things in a timely manner I think um I think that will be all right but I think U point one of having them give you their expectation and their anticipated completion date and understanding you know that we're going to make it I think is important if they and I the point well taken if they are already saying now that we can't that they won't commit to then I would like to know and then we can make a decision but I you know again I think it's going to vary based on the support that they're getting and the documentation that they get so I don't I don't want to be again as the council woman said I don't want to be I don't want to put boot on their throat right now but uh maybe later I think we can ask for an extension though too I think we could be right now proactive and say look we did overcome a significant hurdle I think in the last 18 months so I say even if they come forward and say look we're not we can't guarantee it but I suggest right now we reach out to the end uh user the state and say look we already know that we might be delayed and we they'll give us an extension if you ask for it now no no ma'am that's not how it works the J the June 30th deadline is the deadline I mean they give that to everyone penalties don't start uring to later so for instance we didn't turn our audit in this p past year as y'all all know until I believe in March morning yes we had till April 15 but right but we turned it in so we didn't have any penalties there were no we didn't lose any revenues this year we didn't lose out on grant money but the state gave us all the way through that period of time typically you do have those type of opportunities but if you notify the state and we notified the state This Time by the way that we know it's not going to be done okay get it to us when you can give us updates but we're not agreeing that it's timely we're not agreeing you have an extension to what I would say is before we just go and tell the state we're going to be late we need our auditor to tell us we know they're not going to be if they tell us that they'll give us the reasons and hopefully they would interface with the state and the joint legislative auditing committee that's what they want to know is do you have an auditor doing it why are they going to be delayed That's What mattered the most last time as well I agree I think I'm halfway on what council beerbom saying too that I I would like to have some assurance that they're going to assign more than one person to the audit like we ran into earlier and had some hiccups there at the end but also I've watched the meeting with the finance audit selection committee and that was one of the things that a councilwoman brought up was that they had the resources to dedicate to that project so so I anticipate them having the resources to allocate this time and no unanticipated shortages or redundancies coup backups however you want to term it they they need to be forecasting that just in case something goes wrong um again my my please don't misunderstand my my intention is not to as was mentioned earlier to put a boot on their throat sorry that wasn't my intention but it my intention was to to say okay we're going to be proactive to a certain extent just like we were last year right but there's always room there's always room and opportunity to look back at last year and say what could we have done differently and as I look back at last year even though I wholeheartedly agree and and feel that this Council repeatedly was led by the previous Auditors that we were going to be on time I want to make that clear because they were on the record as saying yes we will be on time and then it was all Shucks we need an extra whatever it was $8,000 or $10,000 but we'll get it in one month late we promise we promise we promise then all of a sudden it was all Shucks we're just going to reject all the previous work that's been done by someone that left the firm and then we're going to start over at zero and then hey no we don't we don't really want to do this anymore and that's what delayed the whole process again nothing that this council could have done could have changed that that was all 100% on that auditing firm at some point we probably need to have a discussion about that conduct and if it's a breach of contract but my intention was to again get out in front of this look at what we did last year and say are there any other ways we can be proactive I just would not I would present in such a way that I don't give them an open ticket other words say no I bring so many people but it's going to cost so well that's kind of what we ran into with with uh with thf you know they they wanted to give us these outrageous numbers they would give us price right yeah how about reest in a anticipated completion date right now well they're just now getting inside so they haven't even got it yet yeah until they're here I would say this I think it would be reasonable perhaps Morgan they're going to be on site February 2 it's April the 22nd um perhaps have them asked to make a presentation at our last regularly scheduled council meeting in May that means there'll be roughly 30 days in and there'll be roughly 30 days out of the due date that's as close to a halfway point as I can give anybody right now and I think councilman beeron this point maybe I misunderstand I don't think it's hey we're setting a hard time frame as much as hey are we on track what are you looking at we had two if not three meetings in May last year where the answer was this will be timely no problem no problem none mean none at all it will be turned in everything's great changing the principle working on on it changed everything so I think it's as much as let them give you an update at the end of May they'll tell you where they are and then you can readdress what we may need to do one way or the other and then we know what we need to communicate with the state so I mean Morgan can do that on Direction without motion but that way they'll have plenty of time to get here and we're not just calling them in middle of May taking them off other things coming in that they are already working for us and obviously more than you know if they are not doing what they need to or they're not communicating please let Mr know immediately absolutely anything else sorry I interrupted Morgan giving an update sorry you good morgan you got I'm good okay all right you any other comment good okay I'm just got a couple couple quick updates waso Public Service we're all here for public service um so myself and the mayor spoke today to the Emerald Coast Realtor Association had a good conversation about how where the city's going and what we're doing here U tomorrow we will be speaking with the Walton High School um government classes we'll be there at lunch time to speak to them um the city I've spoken to the HR Director and some other departments here have expressed interest I think it would be in the city's best interest to pursue some sort of internship program here at the city um I know as me and mayor spoke today I would have I don't want to say that word I would have been glad to do that here here I mean I want I think the city should be more involved in the community so I think it would be a wonderful opportunity to get some people here in the city and learn about it um we're going to be moving forward with the I thought I spoke to everyone here is also the airport position out there we will be hiring some for that working on the description now we're putting that out um so we hope that be coming over the next couple weeks manager correct correct um so we're taking a look at that I did have a gentleman uh reach out to me about a peace peace of property City own there's a well 10 which is off qu bures road I don't know if everyone's familiar with that P property um but I will be bringing that back in that's Council inform I just want You' be aware um he first was on an easement but then he said he would you know him and his partner would be willing to purchase uh part of that parcel so we're going to bring that back to you consideration and next steps moving forward um public procur what do seal bids but there's some property that has a pond over that day on the city's had Home maintenance cost all they appear to be interested in so this could be a net benefit to see correct um I did meet with Miss carice the library director for the county probably last week or two weeks ago now um she is working with County attorneys to update the inter local here with the city and how we look at how who maintains the building who does what in that building I think that's necessary that's going to allow us to budget properly this upcoming year for our Li for the library so we're working on that and then starting next month month um Freeport does something very similar I had thought about this in the past and so Chris Wallace planning director did attend one of their meetings yesterday to get a feel of how they do it we will begin having monthly meetings between um number of Staff here and duberry and our Jacob's firm engineer firm be on the same page interal Communications about how we operate our plant and take care of our infrastructure here so I think that'll be crucial and important step in the right direction great May good time yes sir got any comments I think Kobe's doing a wonderful job I think so too I do too and I gave Kobe a project so I want to share with my fellow council members because this is going to come up and it's probably might be problematic but had a citizen come to me in reference to had sewer issues and uh wanted to know uh could the city help uh here we've come to find out long story short the man's not even hooked up to our sewer we're billing for 10 years now every month for sewer costs I myself at my CPA office had been experiencing some things and found out this afternoon that I too have been build for five years and I'm not hooked up to the city sewer so I don't know what how what that's going to bring out I just want to bring it to our attention we are and we are researching that because yes because I want you to know that Kobe has been working with the team and trying to figure out what is it that authorized the city to Bild citizens for sewer and we're not even hooked up to the sewer and um I found out today that there are other people so I'm on one street and I'm just going out one street on each side east and west of my street and there's already been 10 other people that are also pulling all their utility bills because they too have have found out today you know discovered because that neighbor has gone out and chatted with folks and said oh are you on it are you on it and so now I know of at least 12 people in a three Street radius that are being build by the city for sewer but we're not hooked up to the city sewer I I would encourage the public to work with the city manager on that though instead of trying to just lot up fire let him bring forth Solutions on how we're going to fix it we are going to have number one I I personally would like to understand what what we thought was author ative that said okay I can bill you Amy CPA office every month for sure and I'm not connected to the city sewer I mean I had I had a conversation with Sarah Bowers that that's how long ago it was it was Sarah Bowers was the city manager because I I purchased a house that I live in on Huggins and yes you're right in that net you're in those I the very end and there's a lip station right in my right across the street from me and um Sarah Bower said if the sewer is in front of you and you can hook up you're obligated to hook up under Florida statute is what she told me at the time now stat she then said your neighbor is exempt from paying sewer and he's not hooked up to it but there's sewer available and the lateral is there the new house that was built where the old neighbor's house was is now hooked up but the problem with him at that time with the old house was the sewer on the back side of the property and he would have required a pump to pump it up the hill just to that's what's going to happen to my place I'm going to have to pump it from where they have that clear to the street and then up to the so she said if if you're lateral if you can't hook up because the lateral is not deep enough I will exempt you so my dad and I went out there with the transit and shot the grade on from the back of my house where my sewer exit and goes into my septic tank to the lateral it was two inches to the good so I I have enough slope that I can come around my house go basically back uphill because the lateral is buried over 44 inches into the ground and I can hook up to sewer I I get I pay even though I'm still using my septic tank that's in my backyard I've been paying for sewer for over 10 years clay do you know what statute it is that says that I'm required as and authorizes the city to build me for like I believe what he's suggesting multiple things that could authorize the city uh 381 .655 is the connection of existing on-site sewage treatment Disposal Systems 381 can you say it again I'm sorry 1.0 655 but there there are several other statutes that's the first one I would point you to which requires connection within a year of being notified of availability in a piece of property um now would that be availability by the city the city would have know because I wasn't the property owner at the time that you guys did this because I talked to the neighbor who was born and raised on the very next property over and she came out today and she said I'll tell you exactly where and what has transpired in your property that you currently own and then we could find the leech we found the leech bed I mean we found in my situation the previous owners had declined to hook up they had documentation where the previous owner had declined to hook up and said just bill me it's fine however during the purchase of the house the the MLS listing said septic system so I thought great I'm not going to have to pay septic anymore or I'm not going to have to pay sewer anymore I'm only going to have a water bill and then when the first couple water bills came in and it had sewer sell attached to it that's when I had the conversation with Miss Bowers and that led to me discovering that I'm gonna have to pay for sewer as long as I'm here well I just want to understand um I mean I just can't take it I just can't take it as so we're having a very detailed conversation of something Mr Townson presented for us to start reviewing I believe last Wednesday afternoon but I will say this there have been various times in the city's history most notably probably the most notable one that probably causes the biggest example of this was Mar you remember Mr Enis um proposed a moratorium on impact fees yeah and we started a free tap the idea was we have this much cost to have people to connect it's prohibitive we talking about the merits of this all however we want but the short answer is the city council did approve this and BR EXT the period of time the policy the policy for quite a while was that you would be eligible to connect to the city system or request a tap to the city system you did not pay a tap fee didn't pay an impact fee so you saved several thousand dollars up front the requirement though was you immediately upon that request to best that had to start paying the minimum monthly charge which was consistent with a number of Prior City policies and practice the idea was we're not even going to let you finance out the tap Fe and impact we'll just get rid of it we'll wave it but you're going to pay that minimum monthly charge and we'll get it over enough time it'll make us putting the meter in whenever you ask worthwhile and a lot of people took advantage of that and from our history the city had done that at several different times especially I won't go well prior to my time here but around certain Weds and certain Lakes the city did engage in a process of all right we got lines out here you need to connect some people just refuse to connect but monthly charge started accordingly but we'll get yall a full breakdown of that it applies there are a lot of different reasons why this may occur to someone in the city based on this unique circumstance and location we'll get you all those answers and address those um the historical practice would be when someone says they're ready to connect that if it Happ bang that amount of time City's long standing practice Amir correct me if this doesn't sound like what you remember went through all this would be to provide the tap at no additional charge and at no capacity fee because you're already King it in our overall capacity so while you may not be connected you'll be able to connect without that extra cost you're talking you're talking probably $4,500 to add that sewer on a capacity fee and then yeah used to be like except for maybe in Todd's case a lot of them going to have to put a pump and you know that's going to be an additional you know you should be able to do it with one that's in that $1,000 range or whatever 7 700 to a, what we're saying but uh but that's a lot of money I mean my God come up with $5,500 on top of what you've been paying and so we need to negotiate that capacity fee well well I'll say this now that we're the capacity fee mayor we don't even have to negotiate I'll make it even easier just so everybody understands because it is not an impact thing a capacity thing you're already connected to our system you're already counted in our capacity therefore the capacity models we use would not justify us charging someone now there may be the cost of meter but that would be a cost the city would bear but there would not be an actual connection charge required in the form of the capacity fee for someone who was already being built once you have an account you get that billing you are grandfather so where before we did have to negotiate that's no longer the case so yeah that makes it a little nicer a lot nicer really okay anything else no thank you good just want to again thank uh Shane Abbott for for the help that he's uh that he's provided in terms of that water line and sewer line and uh and that is all there all right well thank you everyone and we will call this meeting a journ --------- yeah okay all right all right we understand that yes we want to call this uh council meeting to order this is Monday April 22nd 202 four uh and is our attorney on his [Laughter] way I can give him a call Mayor all right yes you give him a quick call and we'll go ahead and we'll begin with the uh Ed the pled the invocation and pledge stand please Heavenly Father we love you we thank you Lord for who you are power your love your compassion on us Lord I Thank you for this uh this this board I thank you Lord for all those that have come to do the business of the city we pray God for your direction your wisdom and Lord we just thank you Lord for things being done decently in order in Jesus name amen amen I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all all right so we don't have to have an attorney for a presentation so I'm going to ask uh our representative Shane Abbott if he will come and he's going to give us an update thank you mayor thank you council members I come with a little bit of good news this evening um as most of you already know we were unsuccessful in our attempt to get an appropriation for our main affluent line that we need to replace so as soon as that was unsuccessful um Senator Trumble and myself reached out to our great friends at Northwest Florida Water Management District and ly seagler and his group and started asking what what we can do and uh they were so gracious to point us in the right directions and so we started that process and um I come delivering good news that on April the 11th their board voted to award the city of defc $300,000 towards the main fluent line so aw and I'll I'll bring up L real quick um because yes [Applause] exactly they they were very instrumental just as soon as we lost that project um they reached out and said how can we help and said well let's get to the table and see what we can do and and where we can get some stuff and uh they they made it happen for us so than you thank you sirk you say something I'm well thank y'all um I want to extend our thanks to the city uh to each council member Kobe for you for coming this morning and for giving us an overview regarding your Capital Improvement plan and the prioritization of the council with that being said our our commitment to the city is unwavering uh you know that and we're looking forward to to u to great thing to great things this next legislative session we're going to continue to work with representative Abbott and uh and each member of the council as well as as well as the city manager so thank you again for the opportunity thank you [Applause] we want to get some photographs with you guys and uh you start if you'd like I know it's the paper and I know that we want to get a picture of you and then we'll join you for a picture so if you'll turn around camera behind you let's go see if we can stand in there behind them we get this little pocket right here all right thank you very much thank you thank you [Applause] all right we have uh done a couple proclamations this week and as customary I want to read those in a public meeting first was the uh National Day of Prayer and whereas the National Day of Prayer task force calls the nation to to Prayer by creating awareness and urgency for intercession and providing resources necessary to facilitate prayer growth in America and whereas the National Day of Prayer task force mission is to communicate with every individual the need for person repentance and prayer mobilizing the Christian Community to intercede for America and its leadership in five centers of power the church education family government and media and whereas the National Day of Prayer is an annual event established in the act of Congress in 1952 and it's in its 72nd year of national recognition and whereas prayer is a bridge between Heaven and Earth and it is a conduit through which the spiritual realm is brought into everyday lives and prayer is a that God uses to provide not only our daily needs from food shelter but also Comfort strength and guidance and whereas it is a day that belongs to all Americans who are free to organize and participate in activities that are consistent with their own beliefs and now therefore I Bob Campbell by virtue of authority vested me as mayor of the city of func Spring Florida do hereby and proclaim the day of May 2 2024 that will be coming up on a Thursday first Thursday in May and so we invite everyone to come to the amphitheater and it starts at 6:00 usually last about an hour and so uh we certainly invite you and we love for you to come be a part of that let's see I think I just dismissed my second one here all right then Saturday we did one over at SLO Avenue and they have been having a reunion there of a a large number of families that live alongs loss and so we did a proclamation and it reads like this whereas the reach tapestry of our community is woven with threads of shared history cherished memories and enduring connections and whereas SLO Avenue holds a special place in the hearts of our residents being a symbol of unity resilience and the vibrant Spirit of our of our city and whereas recognize the importance of fostering a sense of togetherness and celebrating the bonds that tie us to a common past our as whereas the Friday Saturday and Sunday the third week of April 2024 present a unique opportunity to come together and commence a celebration of the legacy of SLO Avenue now therefore I Bob C as the mayor of City fiac Spring Florida do hereby and Proclaim Friday Saturday Sunday of third week of every April Hereafter be known as the Sloss Avenue reunion and so we uh we had a good time over there and uh look forward to next year so I want to these read these two proclamations to you uh so at this time we will move to the consent agenda and certainly entertain a motion to approve as written motion to approve second we have a motion and a second and any questions all in favor say I I I I I I I Carrie thank you very much uh regular agenda Kobe you have any other changes or any no this time okay we certainly entertain a motion so moved second all right we have a motion and second to approve the regular agenda any questions all in favor say I I I I I I Isa carry thank you very much all right now we'll go to uh 4 C nominees for the cemetery board the two names I have at the present time are Sandra make meing and Wayne scor they have both uh volunteered to get on this committee you know we've left that thing L dormant for a couple of years uh and so we're going to you know activate it we've I don't think we officially shut it down did we clay We sir just been inactive so I'll give you a schedule at our next meeting and it'll tell you the dates because we'll only do it four four times a year with the exception of special meeting so uh I would entertain a motion to approve these two motion to approve second okay we have a motion second any questions so I was just wondering um I didn't have a list in terms of who who had what appointments are those all mayor's appointments or are those yes there's only three on that board okay uh I certainly open for change if that need to be but that's just the way it's always been that's fine um one was done was it one or two that was done at the last me couple meeting that was a planning board the planning board is made up of one for each councilman two from the mayor to make it a odd number okay sorry I just remembered to one of the boards and I thought it was the same yeah this is a one of those boards that we haven't given a lot of attention to in a long time so anyway we're going to restore that and uh I will contact them so um mayor I've never appointed anybody so you're saying one of those planning boards no no no the planning board you just said one for each counil you get get Appo the do we know is there someone sitting in the seat that from Mr crystals still yeah I'm sure there is again all right I U yeah you can get with the clerk and tell you who that is thank you and you could either uh reappoint them or you can select somebody okay you want thank you okay and uh and I don't know if I've gone over it with any of your appointees I I've heard that okay should I say that all right so I just need to ver yeah on the the planning board I was hoping we didn't the whole group the same week so but anyway but that's your your choice there and so uh I think everybody else got their updated selections did you yes sir okay all right did we ever vote on that this one no on the uh have motion second all in favor say I all hi I I I I Carrie thank you very much all right we'll go to our inter city manager Mr Kobe Townson with D 4 D1 thank you mayor so uh duberry has taken it the process to this point um the srf state revolving fund has came back to the city on our request for an AC water main for design phase in RFQ um they've come back with a 50/50 20-year long so they're willing to loan 50% of the cost and forgive the other 50% the estimated cost of this time is 766 th000 so the city would be um on the hook for 383 and that's over 20 years again this is an estimate because once we go out for RFQ that's when we would eventually receive the actual cost of it but this is a a true estimate from our engineers at this time so in this motion for this we're looking to accept the loan and to issue an RFQ um Morgan clay I'm wrong but we would not U we would get that longan reschedule payment reschedule once the project is completed and we close out is when we receive that typically so correct and so when um duberry put in for the RFI for this project for this design project um that consisted of a Capital Finance plan C he had to submit all of our our debts and things we have tied to our utility system so that's been reviewed and this is what we've come back from the state 5050 we're looking for a motion to approve the loan Craig motion to accept the loan and to issue and RFQ so moved second I we have motion second yes ma'am and Kobe how are we going to pay for this what is the anticipated funding sources for our house so we're going to be we're going to look at two things um we're going to look at capacity fees if that's something that we seem to be the best option we're also going to look at operating dollar going into next year and Beyond um we're going to estimate what that year amount would be to see what would be best but yes if yeah do we know how long that's going to take for us to identify the funding source for our half no so we we won't take too long it's going to be the same thing with um the money we just were going to be receiving for the Northwest Florida Water Management District eent line um I think at this time the anticipated use is for design design on that 515,000 again we're going to look at the best option to make up the difference um for what what what's most feasible and two what's most time appropriate okay yes sir Miss Morgan do we know how much we got in um impact impact fees sitting aside well he said capacity well yeah that's what we call it now yeah well the impact Fe we actually still have some impact fees those are but you can't apply those capacity I don't have that to haven't had a chance to get it to him um but I don't have that number brought off I can get it to you and get it to and he canri to y'all okay um the the 20 year mark for the 383 is around 20,000 year so that's what we would as K said just be taken from either the the capacity fees on an annual basis or operating could that be combined mixed and you just get it from one sour to the other I mean could could it be from compound I capacity and the service yeah so so so what you're talking about here because you're not doing a lump sum payment to pay off the loan is going to be a scenario where what you're talking about trying to do is pledging revenue revenue you're pledging are all allowable water system Revenue just like sewer system you do all allowable sewer system revenue and that would be monthly charges that come in developer contribution credit should a developer pay in Li of a line we were already going to upgrade we don't do that as much anymore capacity fees we used to do a lot more of that as you remember mayor capacity fees and then should a portion of the project be deemed allowable for any impact fees of course it's our advice always once you move away from Impact fees to try to exhaust the impact fee accounts as quickly as possible just not to have those carried on the books got because they're a limited and restricted account gotcha okay but yes we will be doing our due diligence to make sure we we pay for that the proper way and then compare it to other projects we're going to have coming down the line next year um so doing that thank you yes sir I was ahe I just have one more question is there uh maybe the next meeting or something Kobe could you guys bring forward um how much of our fees are already pledged for all outstanding loans that the city has all of them for the water and sewer system D just to be clear the pledges are General pledges of all monies necessary to satisfy the debt so if what you're looking for is what that actual rate run is what the actual Debt Service and the amount of the monthly payment relative to the monthly incomes are that's one thing but if you're asking how much is pledged the short answer is you pledge 100% and then some of them are at sixth priority lean but that's what srf does that's why we have to give those letters that show every priority lead in front of them yeah I'd like to know all the that we have that we've pledged whether it's through srf or through whatever so we have a debt schedule and the debt schedule does show would you be willing to update us the next meeting that' be great thank you any other questions no anyone question comment right all in favor say I I I I all right I I car thank you very much and I'll go back to Mr Townson on the natural gas so for number two and number three I'm going to invite Mr Thomas Jeffrey up he is our rep with Florida gas utility um he's going to one give a presentation that Jesse will put up on the TV he's going to explain to us a little bit about how the city gets his gas builds it the pricing of it that stuff of that nature and then he will roll into the resolution give you an overview of what we're looking to change and why we're doing it changing this formula if for some reason the council feels that they would like to just hear this out and bring this back at a the next meeting have some more time to look at it that's perfectly fine but I think Mr jeffre is going to be able to give us a full overview what we're looking for here thank good evening it's a pleasure to be here my name is Tom Jeffrey I'm the finance manager and CFO for Florida gas utility um I've been in the natural gas industry for over 40 years uh done everything from accounting work to uh but mostly in uh uh executive management roles so happy to be here tonight to talk about how we buy Natural Gas gas for the city a little bit of background about Florida gas utility and who we are we are called a joint Action Agency which is a fancy term for basically a co-op if you're familiar with how Co-op Works they they have members and they they exist to benefit their members and that's exactly what we do we're formed under the Florida statute 163 which is the interlocal cooperation Act of 1969 we've been in business almost 35 years we exist to serve our members of which city of Dunc Springs is one by creating value through joint purchasing of natural gas supply and management of the pipeline capacity needed to move that Supply from the well head to your city we also offer a tremendous amount of additional Services many of which you take advantage of we have 25 members uh throughout the State of Florida 19 are like you they distribute the natural gas to your citizens uh six are electric generation companies so they use the natural gas turn it into electricity and our our sister company Florida Municipal Power agency they're also a joint Action Agency then sells that power to their cities which are their members we're the fifth largest purchaser of natural gas in the State of Florida so we have a tremendous amount of buying power okay and we've been your natural gas purchaser since 2010 okay so natural gas is a commodity just like corn or pork bellies or aluminum or anything else traded on the New York mertile Exchange or NYX and also on various trading platforms that that are supporting uh the trades uh prices change all the time what prices are this minute will be different the next minute okay so they go up and down and they're very dependent on market conditions demand and Supply is is the primary driver as well as weather conditions and other influences now the weather here in Florida does not influence natural gas Florida the state of Florida is not necessarily a big purchaser of natural gas where is it consumed most up north and when is it consumed most often in the winter and so when it gets cold up north prices rise when it's warm up north prices fall and it's simple demand and Supply when demand goes way up because it's cold the supply has to react to that okay so each month or so I'm sorry uh should say that we acquire your natural gas supply in a variety of ways and it's consistent with best practices utilized within the industry so each month we determine what your customers are likely to use every day in total that's called base load okay and we can buy that for the entire month at the beginning of the month and it's and it's priced at what's called first ofth the month price index indexes okay and an index is simply the average price that everyone in the market pays for that gas on that particular day where you're looking to buy it at okay so some people pay a little more than that some people pay a little of that the average is what's called this first of the- month index price okay and then every day within the month we look at what the weather conditions are any other known factors that we may have with you and determine how much we need to buy every day on top of that base load to meet your actual demand profile okay because every day you're customers will use a different amount why they may be cooking tonight at home on their gas range maybe not tomorrow night okay it may be 38 degrees tonight tomorrow night it may be 50 okay so there are a lot of reasons why the amount of gas that you need every day changes okay and that daily gas is also bought at a daily price or an index price and I get same calculated the same way it's the average price of the gas bought for that particular location on that day okay any questions on that okay so the what happened in January 2024 was natural gas prices moved up and down primarily due to weather conditions okay we saw a wide variety of prices okay but when we bought the first of the month gas for you that price was at $2 $261 point9 per unit okay pretty cheap quite frankly okay average gas prices over the last decade have probably been in the $4 to5 range so we're at pretty low prices and that's probably what everyone's been hearing is oh natural gas prices are historic lows and they are but not every day okay during January the daily price moved dramatically from a low of $21.5 on January 24th to the high of $12.73 for the week of January 13th through 16th why did that go up so high it was very cold up north it was pretty cold here too okay lots and lots of demand and that Pro and that moves prices up so who who gets it is the one who is willing to pay the most for it that's how the market works okay so we bought so while the media is certainly reporting extremely low natural gas prices overall as you can see on any particular day the price may not be very low and we were buying gas when it was $12 for you because your your customers are using it we had to put it in you otherwise there's nothing for them to use okay so we bought gas during the month on some days it was as low as nine units to other the high was 539 units so in the first of the month we bought 111 okay and you got that every day okay and we bought additional 9 to 539 on a daily basis so you can see that's a wide fluctuation okay when do you think the 539 was used when it's cold when the prices are high unfortunately okay so there are other costs in in addition to just the commodity that are included in the total cost of your natural gas supply okay so when we buy the natural gas we're buying it at the Wellhead we have to be able to get it from the Wellhead to the city of Dunc Springs and there's pipelines that are there to do that and we have to you all have subscrib to a portion of the space in that pipe it's called pipeline capacity it's enough capacity there for you to move your your gas through that pipe and get it to you and it's firm which means that you're guaranteed that okay it's not interruptible where you can get interrupted it's firm Supply okay but there are costs to that the pipeline Florida gas transmission is the main pipeline serving the State of Florida and the only one that serves the city of Dunc Springs and they charge us for that capacity and charge you but uh we're your agent and they also have what's called usage charges that means it's the variable cost to run the pipeline they recover through a variable charge the fixed cost of the pipeline they recover through a fixed charge and that's your capacity that's 98% of your of the bill is is from the pipeline is for the capacity the fixed charge about 2% is usage charges okay and that's primarily um the the onm cost of the compressor stations that they have that move continuously move the gas down the pipe okay um sometimes they don't need to run them when the when the day is mild uh some days they have to run them hard okay and that increases the omm they also we also have to pay for the fuel that runs those compressors okay and that's fuel retention costs so those three costs at the pipeline has that uh in addition to the commodity itself that goes into your total cost of gas in addition to that we have our charges we don't do this for free but we don't make money on it either so you pay some of our costs that provide the services for you okay and then there are other costs we never put in the amount of gas that's taken out that's if that happens it's by luck okay because we don't know what your customers are actually going to use we're projecting that okay so the difference between how much gas we bought and put in the pipe for you and how much your G gas your customers actually consumed is called an inbalance and that has to re be resolved every month as well that goes into your cost of gas and any prior period adjustments sometimes the pipeline makes mistakes and we have to you know adjust for that um or any other anything else could happen so so those are various components that are make up your total cost of gas and and this in the summary you can see that it equals the gas supply the commodity itself plus all the pipeline charges that I described plus the cost that Florida gas utility has and other costs as well okay so a comparison of the supply cost these are your costs for December 2023 through February 2024 in total in December your your average cost per unit was $4 almost $4.60 in January it was almost $540 cents so that's 80 cents higher almost 20% higher okay and then it went back down in February to just about $451 cents okay I don't know what it was in March off the top of my head I'm just sorry I should have had that information so you can see that that increase gets passed along to you and you're passing that increase on to your customers through your billing process okay so that's how we go about buying your gas that's what makes up the total cost cost of gas for you and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have on that Tony so when the when there are adjustments or Corrections when do those happen typically how long does that take they're very rare to begin with uh but the pipeline has 10 days after the end of the month to make any corrections so it's immediate it's you'll get it the next month so do when when that happens does um does that trigger any kind of notice or notification or information for residents or citizens or or your users in any way no these are very minor adjustments typically and so we had one in February I take it we had an adjustment or what did it show up in the March Bill not sure I'm sorry that I'm sorry counc it was um we had a I didn't get a phone call but I I got a well I got a phone call from my wife when she opened the bill I think it was uh I think it was March but it might have been February because there had been a jump and U you know I passed it off it's like well you know we were we were cooking a lot there was something going on I think it was from December and it was a correction maybe it was January or something like that but um you know we did notice a jump and I think that councilwoman heav had brought up a question about that you know previously um and so I was just wondering was that one of those adjustments is that what we saw there is that what happened correct so there so there had been an issue with uh one of the meters that our large commercial user and if you want me to go through the whole thing we can try to we can try to do that it's pretty complicated but the meter the register to the meter had went out the city was checking that meter routinely um but when we fixed the register it was noticed that the two were not the same so over that period of time the register was out the city was under billing customers for the consumption now was that the main calls speaking to Tom no that wasn't your biggest issue the biggest issue was the super high prices that you got that month and adjust from speaking to staff and time adjustments happen not on a regular basis but periodically it does happen you just don't notice it because the prices don't fluctuate as great as they did in that month so was actually two things it was there was a price spike but we also had a an adjustment for correction correct is there I'm not sure it's possible but is there any way besides social media and some of the stuff that makes it really hard for customers to to go look for information or is there any kind of way that that if there is like let's say there's a 10% jump or 20% jump or whatever is enough to trigger pain when I hear from my wife um that there could be you know just a notice okayy we had a had an adjustment there was a one time it's this period is there any way to get something of that so we don't get some of this confusion correct so morning speaking with utility billing Morgan and Randall moving forward that will be the case um we'll judge it off to the percentage of increase because if it is something substantial people need to be aware um it's my understanding that this has been practiced for the city it's usually it's very minuscule you don't you don't recognize it but this time you did um and so that brings attention to it and we can address that moving forward in policy so we will have a new new thing moving forward when it hits a certain level we will notify people um so we don't have this again can we can we get a credit on those at some point when we see it go down instead of up maybe one time there are mechanisms that uh many of our members other cities use to help keep that fuel cost pretty stable may I was ask about that if you if if weather is known to be inclement upcoming do we pre do you try to pre- purchase or purchase additional ahead of the anticipated or possible price jumps or you not speculate we don't speculate for first of all but we do look at whether and try to forast that but the pipeline when it gets really cold goes to daily balancing and if you're not in on that day you get severe penals you pay three times the cost of the commodity on that day so you we avoid that at all costs so heads they win Tails we lose that's correct pipeline controls everything so thank you sir Mr Tom can you explain Jesse can you scroll back up one one page can you explain that um this cost per unit is actually different from what we actually build to our in customer is that correct um yes because my understanding is you combine the cost of the commodity with your distribution charge and it shows up as one number on the bill but we also are breaking up basically this unit into a smaller unit to actually that's correct can you elaborate on that sure so we buy what's and I try not to use technical terms right we buy in what's called decms okay and that's uh a million British thermal units okay you build in cubic feet which is volume so there's a process to go to convert that price from a decm back to cubic feet um you divide by 10 and then you divide by the btu factor in the gas and that gets you a cost per 100 cubic feet you build in cubic feet so then you divide that again by 100 to get the rate okay so very complicated yes yes well that was my point was to say that the numbers that are presented here aren't going to be the number that's reflected anybody's bill because this is a completely different billing unit that we are basically paying you as a wholesaler correct okay so um I've been working very closely over the last couple months because I was aware of the metering issue or became aware when Rand with Randall and Victoria Boon and uh to make sure that the billing was accurate the rates that you're charging were accurate okay and then the next item is a proposed ordinance change to change the way we're calculating that to be a lot more accurate than it is so do you want to seg way in into that explanation or right think am Amy has before we move on am might understand that you you Bill our customers not us no no no you okay so we take his bill and then we add our fee and then we build the end user they just ask us to assist when there's difficulties like this thank you very much by the way for working with our team we our M so thank you we work for you so yeah you just go move forward okay well so the the next item I guess is a a proposed change to the resolution where you're deriving the cost of natural or in part where you're deriving this gas cost adjustment amount and um the existing formula that's in the ordinance has been there I guess a very long time I have no idea how it was arrived at or or who came up with it but uh I can tell you that the current meth methodology doesn't get you to the right number so um right now it's the gas cost adjustment equals the total cost purchased and then it multiplies that by two conversion factors that are used to convert the volume of gas used by a customer not the cost of the gas okay so by multiplying the cost of the gas by these factors gets you to an incorrect number you have the total cost of gas that's our bill there's nothing else to add to that and so the proposed and then that gets divided by the uh volume purchased again the volume that we purchase now let me tell you this we buy gas the gas market works on a calendar month basis so when you get a bill from us for the month of March it's for gas that we bought March 1st through March 31st you do not read your customer meters on the last day of the month you read them during the month so there's a difference in what you're selling to your customer and what you're buying from us because it's a mismatch if you read the meter on the 20th of the month that's gas was consumed from February 20th to March 20th and you're comparing that to what we're billing you March 1st to March 31st so that so that causes some issues right so you were dividing it by the volume purchased to get a to get a rate and then you SE subtracting out 34 almost a little over 34 cents of that because at one point in time your base rate included 34 cents to recover the cost of gas when we assisted you over the past years in rate studies we eliminated that and we thought the ordinance would got changed but it didn't okay so we're here to clean up the ordinance in essence and I've been working with v Victoria and she gets a report before as she in during the billing process that gives her the total volume that you're about to Bill your customers and so the best method to calculate calate the rate is take the cost of the gas divided by the amount of volume that you're just about to build to your customers to get the rate because that ensures you're billing the exact dollar amount to your customers in total okay so you're going to be able to Bill all that out and the accouny is going to love it because it's easy to reconcile I paid 50,000 for gas I build out 50,000 for gas okay uh and that's a good thing so so this was an attempt to clean up the ordinance in particular the gas cost adjustment and we changed a few other things just to bring them up to date like what your current rates are Etc and uh and that uh that paragraph about you have the ability without action by the council to for rates to be increased each year by 3% and so we just cleaned up a little bit of that language so so the the rationale for this was to get a gas cost adjustment rate that is accurate and and these changes will do that and again I can answer any questions that you might have can mayor go ahead the volume that you were suggesting 50,000 and then so we could match it up to say the same is that in the DECA thms and has the conversion taking place already so that we know the 50,000 is the same 50,000 yeah that's I was speaking of dollars there when your gas bill is $50,000 you want to Bill out $50,000 a cost to your customer okay gas is simply a pass through you don't make money on that and you shouldn't lose money on that okay but I'm saying is this resolution doing volume for us no I can I can take your bill and I can see the exact same or or is someone got to do the conversion from decms to cubic feet yeah there's a conversion and again the volume that we're going bill you is strictly calendar month what you're billing your customers is from meter read to meter read date and it's not a calendar month there are a few customers I think Randall like WCI and CW Roberts that you are able to read at the end of the month so they are also a calendar month but your other customers if you read it on the 10th of the month their meter it's from the last month 10th to this month's 10th and we're billing you from the 1st through the 30th okay so those are never never going to reconcile back to each other but this way you can ensure yourselves that you're billing out see right now I couldn't tell you without doing an in-depth audit whether you actually build out all your gas costs last year or not exactly under this method you'll know and your accounting department will easily be able to tell tell you that did I understand that we could have maybe another cycle to review this because I have not seen or had time to you know really articulate anything else that I might that's that's up to the council if you take some time cover again got information we can bring it back that's you got the presentation of the resolution we do need to adopt but it does not have to be right right what I would say is I think that similar things have happened in the past that's why you don't always get the resolution back but if we put on the next agenda C that don't give everybody time I'll make a motion to table second I have a motion in a second uh any questions or comments from anyone all in favor say I I I I Carrie all right thank you very much it was a pleasure being here thank you very much all right okay now we're at uh number four request for proposals on ARP for the employee Group Health insur correct thank you mayor so um it's been prior practi to the City to go out for uh insurance coverage about every two years and that's what we're asking to do here um the city is going to administer this RFP we want to see exactly what we can get back off the public market private Market we want to make sure we're giving the best benefits to the employees while also saving the city money um and we're GNA we're going to see what type of plans we get and how that works out and so we're just asking for approval to issue this RFP this will give a timeline I would have to there's there's timeline associated with it this would give ample time if we were to change our insurance to get everything transitioned over and be ready for October 1 I've informed uh Miss chance and she me and her are working together if for some reason Insurance cannot be rolled over for October one we will not go forward we will not lapse on insurance here in the city so um she's confident we can do that and I'm confident in her ability to do it so we're asking for approval to issue this RFP to get some bids back motion to approve second I have motion second comments questions questions mayor yes if by chance we go out for bids and another provider is decided on it is there any any any funds that would have to be uh returned to the current provider the reason I asked this with with the school district you know they Blue Cross gave the school dist District Wellness money every year and if we went out for bids and went to another provider that Year's Wellness money had to be paid back to Blue Cross and it it was pretty substantial no we currently do not receive any benefits from Blue Cross Blue Shield at this point we pay out um our invoices to them dollar for dollar so we don't receive any incentives from Blue Cross okay typically a part of your your RFP if you were looking to change would be to ask is there an absorbed cost that the new provider would incur should you have any reimbursement dollars to you sometimes you simply have that because of adjustments over payments or contractual lag times where that does happen will you attempt to roll that into your negotiation if you are moving from one provider to another beon uh I'm I'm not opposed to the RFP at all and I I think we definitely need to go go out for it um clay what are the what are the opportunities for us to partner with the county on health insurance because I know in the past we've the last two times the city's asked the answer was was not viable we can ask Miss chance to follow up and check again but your HR Director previously indicated it was not possible well that that's why I'm asking because I always hear a variation of that it's like oh well don't know the exact details but we can't ever work it out but nobody can ever truly give me a clear indication as to why I believe both benefit Brokers have repeatedly said that we do not qualify for being rolled together as we are separate entities we made assertions that that would possibly be otherwise dras to be explored but I can tell you every time we've looked at the past the benefit Brokers on both City and the county side have said do not how it works yeah because I mean you have the Sheriff's Office you have all all the different constitutional officers that are constitutionally separate but they somehow manage to roll all them together I tell you count employes in another Florida county where I came from as the finance director for the sheriff our claims were so outrageous that when you mirrored them with the school board and the County Employees they didn't they didn't want it because then your rates for your for your own entity increase based on the entities medical uh issues and claims that were being provided so it was just too significant of a that that's very common to see C constitutional officers so I think that's the main reason that you're seeing that is the significant of still there's a lot of County employees that would spread the cost out over a lot of County Employees versus the 100 100 plus that we have talking a thousand versus 100 yeah but who would administer all of the all of it together you know what I'm saying it's like it's and I can check it it's been many years since we did that we did it for sever trying to do that and it was always a no and I just can't remember it's too far back but I can check into it and get a answer for you that my comment wasn't directed at you in any way shaper form it was more of I always get told no but I can never have a definitive reason as to why I just can't remember it's so long ago yeah if it's simply that the the insurance company on the other side just says no to me that's a valid reason but I always get well it's it's complicated it's like okay what's the complication I'm not sure we've ever gotten a direct answer from the insurer as much as it comes from the middleman and I think that's part of the consternation yeah I'll youa thank you all right and I say we we look into that um I think that myself and Miss chance are hoping that we'll get some different plans in here that are very similar to that same format um with igger insurance company so hopefully we'll get some good responses to this okay are we a motion second we do com all in favor say I I I I I I I car thank you very much all right Kobe we go to the CCB bank so I have been working with um Hunter Harrington he's the vice president of commercial lending for CCB Bank um they've done their due diligence to this point on the environmental phase they had a company SSI handle that they they did their environmental phase one it came back with some stuff so they need to do a second one they've completed that we have since then submitted a form and those reports to FD they will be reviewing those forms to tell us if there's any mitigation on the property that we must do for that so in turn um ccb's due diligence period ends March 11th and so they're requesting a 90day extension 11 I'm sorry they're requesting a 90day extension which would take us out to effectively August 9th of 2024 so we're just looking for that that extension because again this wasn't the bank's fault really wasn't no one's fault it's just environmental findings that had to be addressed motion to extend second okay we have a motion of second questions comments anyone all in favor say I I I I I I car thank you very much uh all right now we'll go back to Julie with the the city city manager position so the reason I put the agenda on the meeting was to get some direction how the board would like to proceed since I know we have an interim city manager um stilling applications oh I did clean up the spreadsheet I have it on my computer but it's kind of hard to re so I um took out the ones that have withdrawn their application and then the individuals who have not responded to the first email sent out in January and then again the second email sent out in March so that I eliminated quite a few I did not put on here the ones who did not turn in an application they only turn in a resum and um they had no government experience they just really realtor and different things like that so I didn't include them I do have them on a list but not on the spreadsheet you're looking at what you're looking at now are it looks like 13 that are still interested the first half you'll see the dates or actually I hit those but anyway the first half is from March previously then the bottom half you'll see received from March 11th to March 26th um not March 2 that's wrong till current so um my question would be how would you like to proceed I mean doing moving forward do you want me to go and reject all the applications that have not responded and um obviously the ones that have withdrawn they're already taken care of um do you want to review let me send you all the applications that are here again now the top half you've already received from received from March 11th you've only received Paul dials the other three you have not would you like for me to send all them to you again or how would you like Josh um thank you Mr Mayor I I thought the last meeting was the last meeting or meeting before when councilman Mir bomb made a good point just to leave it open for now until we find some that we are interested in interviewing and then at that point get those to you and get them on get them in for interviews but um yeah well my only I would think that we could raise them at any meeting if that was the case which ones we would actually like to interview and then fell and the rest of the council decide on whether or not we move forward with that or not I think you uh and I don't I haven't spoken to any individual council person not that I couldn't I just haven't and uh U but you know basically some of the obvious responses I'm seeing from Kobe here is that uh I've been very happy now if we think that you know uh we want Kobe to stay in place for a number of months uh or even nine months old get you know I don't want to wear these people out you know let's just keep saying just hang in there hang in there so I don't know how how we could present that or I don't really know what the will of the council is um but I would love to hear your thoughts on that uh if uh uh what would you like to see I'll tell you I'll just I'll just say my pleas because I've been extremely impressed I'm the one who said that Kobe didn't have enough experience um but I'll say that the way he's approached uh his daytoday responsibilities has been extremely impressive and very detailed and very good communication with me I I hope for that's with everybody but um you know what could happen you know you could put this out for nine months and then at that time he along with anybody else on this list could be chosen by our permanent manager or you could do it soon my concern would be that some of the applicants have been hanging since like December yeah so I just need to know do I need to let them know that we're going we have an interum and and I think koby's doing great too they have an interim that way they can look somewhere else and just let them know that right now the council is accepting applications but we are going to um do the nine months with Kobe as we're discussing this one thing I spoke to miss chance about was the fact that she routinely receives applications or has they do not meet the one hard minimum qualification that is set by ordinance and do you wish to give her instruction or authority is my recommendation to council to go Ahad and give her that authority to provide rejection notice to those they don't mean minimum qualification otherwise how many do you have well we got 20 C out there how many Max qualified well too so I mean I think it's one of those that to some point letting her close or reject applicants that clearly do not meet the minimum qualification would probably be prudent but that's the other part of this it's not only ones you have but it's the ones you're receive over an extended period of time J clay this is mainly for you um it I with even uh Mr Townsen at this point he doesn't meet that one qualification even if we went forward up to this point there would have to be an ordinance change in order to make it to where he would qualify I agree with the mayor completely I think that Mr towns is doing an excellent job um but there's some liability involved in this conversation too as to how we handle this process I know that the charter demands that we do discuss process but we have to weigh out liabil comp I will say that I believe you comp with the charter based on the discussion that occurred after the appointment at time of and after the appointment of Mr Townson we did have a detailed meeting where that was discussed um after that you then end up with a situation where you have nine months and the only way it can be extended additional three is if a hiring process proc is still good one so the council's decision to leave this process open and continueing applicants is really the extent of what the charter would require um it's just to determine the direction of the city which you do have with an inter I mean I'm open to discussing uh an ordinance change but I think that that would have to be on a different night than tonight I would concur with that um my opinion is we should we should authorize uh Miss Julie to reject all applicants that don't meet the minimum qualification as it stands today or going forward until such time we change the ordinance um I would also say that we leave the position open until filled on our website um and I would say that if someone wants to apply it's not hard to determine and watch a couple meetings and ascertain the fact that we have an interim and that we're moving ahead [Music] um if if some again it's like I said before if someone wants the job they're going to be paying attention um so this idea that someone's been hanging out for an extended period of time if they truly want the job they've been paying attention they know how we've been proceeding it's not hard to to look as up on Facebook YouTube the paper Etc and figure out what our direction is uh so I would say that we proceed with uh Mr Mr Townson um he's been doing a fantastic job he's been in communication with me and I have been thoroughly impressed as well with his his methodical and data driven approach to things um so I would I would say that we leave the position open if CL are there any other advertising requirements or does leaving the position open until filled on the website meet the charter requirements I'll read the charter provision verbatim I believe having it left open more than satisfies it the council's requirement was that upon a vacancy in the position of city manager which arguably did not occur with the interum but you heard the vacancy of Mr thomps see Mr barle was never the actual city manager so but let's assume it applies for a second discussion the council shall at its next meeting deliberate on the appropriate course of action for the management of the city until a new city manager is hired come so not shall deliberate on hiring process and shall deliberate on how you're going to manage the city you've done that that was discussed at length what would happen ultimately Mr Townson was appointed at the special meeting is my recollection I mean it says comma and shall at the meeting initiate a hiring process for the position of manager is my opinion your hiring process was never ceased was already Ono so since we're still dealing with interim managers and you have a hiring process that was initiated in the end22 and has continued on since then I believe you compliant with section 1104b of the charter so do we do we need a I'm assuming we would need a motion to authorize her to reject all applicants that do not meet the minimum qualifications I would request so so moved and so and with that you youd mark why you know so it can be examined at any time so uh yes I have a question I I'll second for discussion real quick Clay is it possible that um do we have to leave it open at all I mean if if if we're going to give Kobe a chance and we have until the nine-month marker why would we I don't want to encourage people to apply between now and let's say let's re-evaluate him at month six and say we're gonna know because I too am uh seeing some great things and and you know why why would we be encouraging outside applicants at this point let's reopen it maybe in six months if you need if you have to have that you know when you get to the ninein Monon marker you're saying that language says if we have a hiring process ongoing yeah it says provided the we're going to know at that point whether we need to so would the process be defined at this point if we reject all applications the process be defined at this point as we're going to evaluate Mr Mr towns and's um performance over the next few months and at such point we determined that he is fully um we're all satisfied with this performance and everything that's going on then at that time do we we I'm trying to avoid that well I think there's no let me say this there's no way you're going get around an ordinance amendment of what you're saying is you're building the point of hiring Mr Townson based on where this is the charter is not going to let him stay in this position for three years to build that amount of experience it's just there's no way for that Happ let me go in reverse order to your point Council woman all it says you have to initiate one doesn't say it has to be ongoing the full time I believe iring process has been initiated I see no reason why that process cannot be started and stopped multiple times during this process if you want the only additional requirement is at the end of nine months you can give an interum a 3-month extension provided the hiring process is on on going doesn't say it has to be the same hiring process and I will defer to council beer bomb if he finds this to be any different than my recollection of when that was discussed the discussion was we want to move from interim to permanent when we're ready to make that decision but if you're not ready to move from interim to permanent for whatever reasons there needs to be a process ongoing and basically give the council a thre Monon extend ention to get that underway and try to get someone hired the thought was you could hire someone within 90 days maybe not at 30 so yeah you can stop if you want to reject them all in all the process Charter does not require you to continue to be in it right now you have an interim city manager let me ask one more question now Kobe based on the qualifications wouldn't you by December be qualified I mean I will graduate with a master's degree in December but I I'll be like 25 days short yeah oh but so so the requirement says the C and I've not looked at Mr Town's res to go through it within Merit but the requirement reads the city manager must have a minimum of three years experience as a local government administrator comma or managerial experience which entailed supervision the various Departments of the local government a wholly unrelated to Mr Townson just so everybody's clear Julie and I spoke about this in terms of if the council's going to give her authority to call how do you interpret that local government means local government got to have three years experiences of city manager County Manager administrator chief executive officer whatever that title is that's one or alternatively you could have someone who has Manero experience for that same minimum period of time that entailed supervision of various Departments of local government so somebody comes in and says why was the code enforcement director in Okaloosa County past 10 years would you manage anybody else code enforcement no that's not various departments yeah have somebody I've been in public works I went over to planning you know as long as you're getting into multiple departments yes the concept and mayor you will recall this because it was when the ordinance was changed in 2018 when that went into effect