##VIDEO ID:g7J4nj_Hu2A## [Music] just know okay thank you ready yes sir all right we will call this regular city council meeting to order today is Monday September 9th 2024 it is five o'clock we will stand for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance dear Lord we thank you for this day we thank you for all your blessings on us father pray dear Lord that you'll be with us tonight as we carry out the will of the people and what is in your will father pray de Lord she'll be with the Nelson family during this hard time and um she'll bless each and every one of Jesus name pray to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right all right we will move on to the consent agenda are there any additions or changes to the consent agenda motion to approve second I have a motion in a second to approve all those in favor say I we will start with I'll start I I I eyes carry all right we will move on to the regular agenda are there any changes or deletions to the regular agenda Mr none approve second all right we have a motion a second to approve all those in favor say I I I I I I I carry all right we will move to 3c1 request to purchase large quantity of asphalt Mr Townson you so uh to continue with our for Park upgrades um staff would like to PVE the section of between 11th and Plateau um it'll be roughly $119,000 to do so that's the asphalt and attack and U staff's prepared to do that Council so willing to approve in this budget in this fiscal year and before the end of the month motion to approve second all right we have a motion of second any further discussion from the council um it's not completely specific but just in that area it'd be good to see some additional light in the near future it's very dark where the scouts are correct so we did maintenance and I did meet with our FPL rep and talked about lighting for the whole city so we'll be going through that process I think you got a lot of inquiries about lighting um there was there is a poll this is just for reference on cost you know Florence parks at the corner of 11th and Clay there is a I guess you would say the support line that comes across and there's a pole in Florence Park so we we asked what would it take to get rid of that support pole and get rid that line so people $4,500 come to that PO so we're gonna be get creative on how we do things but yes we are looking at light lighting along the street thank you that's all so I had a conversation with Mr Townson about it um I I wanted to express some of my reservations about uh the paving of the of Clay Street um councilman Valley if you recall I think it was on uh the the street there that runs off the lake yard when there was a request to repay bit we had some discussion then I really want to see us not just lay asphalt over a bad street I really want to see us take a a concerted effort here to actually improve the road structure of the road bed so that we're not coming back to you to us in you know a few years and asking to PVE it again because it's uneven and obviously when asphalt's uneven it then tends to break up faster right because it's holding water and you know it wears unevenly so I I had actually kind of asked if we could either a look at bidding this out to an actual construction company that could come in and Mill it and make sure that it was prepped whether it was it's in need of Milling I I'm not sure or you know whether it was actually laying down an additional base layer so that we don't have issues with um you know things selling over time there there's a couple of streets that have been paved that you know looking back on we probably should have done more to the actual base so I I wanted to kind of bring that up and maybe hopefully spur a little bit of conversation about you know do we want to continue just buying asphalt and laying asphalt down throughout the city or do we want to try to tackle this in a little more a comprehensive way and if if there is a desire to do that how do we handle this one do we allow this one to go through and then try to tackle it next year which quite honestly we've kind of done that already MC uh Dr mcnight brought this up several times in in previous meetings when he was here we always kind of said well we'll get to it next time and then we kind of continue to Kick the Can down the field yes ma'am I was thinking that we had this conversation for isn't that what's happening up to behind all those buildings Baldwin behind Baldwin I recall us chatting about hey all we do it seems like and now it's causing water problems to go into these businesses um correct can anybody please refresh my memory I thought we I was thinking that this might already have been part of a plan that we decided okay I thought we had gone that route where somebody was gonna we like we can no longer go and just pave over these places because we're just making it worse yes we so so we we didn't establish a policy it was a desire and a goal um but we didn't establish a policy because it is cost it may be cost prohibitive so the goal was look at on a case-by Case basis and identify ones where it wouldn't be practical okay we what we have in the alleys is we have raised it over a foot uh over hundred years so that one's a little different the Lakey yard's a little different uh we do have areas that I would be cautious of and that's where we have curbing so the one thing that's different about this section here is there's no curbing for the most part there is curbing at the corner you could feather it in but Milling will extend the useful life what was told to us by Mr Drake was it was double the useful life of the work that was done so even if it costs twice as much it's the same value if it's three quarters more you know 75% more then it's a improved value and you don't get the inflation cost now Cliff is here Cliff's not working for us right now but if we wanted to rope him in we might ask him some questions I'm not sure it's necessary on this one but um again if we have curving gutter curve it raises it up and you can actually see an example of where that happen not too long ago um and what we have is creates some drainage issues where um I have some concerns about something that's on um uh 13th uh Street where we have this actually impacting a resident yes ma'am can we add this regardless of what we do with this one uh whether we approve it or maybe push it could we add this Kobe as a discussion to our next standard monthly you know how we're going to be the finance director at 4:00 that would be a good topic for us to discuss because this is going to happen continuously if if the council so agrees that maybe this is a good topic to where we could P some of this out I'm I'm in favor extending that conversation out further you have an opinion chair well as far as overall kind of practice policy for Paving moving this out to this larger discussion about Paving and how we handle these Paving situations out to our next Workshop yeah yeah I'm I'm okay with that I mean that I don't I'm I agree with you there's no point in a street like this one um I'm not familiar with you you mentioned another Street somewhere but this street has been patched so many times over the years that Paving over that I don't think it's going to be the solution necessarily and K and I had conversation it's it's narrow in some spots there's a couple school buses that go up and down that road somebody has to get on the grass with a wheel uh for two larger vehicles to meet so there's some changes that need to be on that street uh for sure and to make it last it does see a lot of traffic and especially since that park has been upgraded that Park is staying very busy um but I would like to see it done so that it lasts more so uh and I don't know a whole lot about road construction but I know what you put underneath is is the life of the of the whole project um so yeah but I'm okay with extending there I don't I agree what you're saying okay so I'll withdraw my second one oh you want to withdraw the second or do you want to leave it and we approved this or you know there's kind of two different things two different conversations going on here so well I mean if you if you want to talk about underlayment on this one before we approve it going forward then then I think we need to postpone it don't we or how do you want to handle it I would like to ask Kody what did our staff do to identify that this was a good solution to you know is this a longterm solution or a temporary one because that's gonna decide what um speaking of stff you know the road is not very thick so they didn't feel that a company was going to come in and Mill it because there's nothing to Mill um and so and we we had issues getting quotes to PVE this small strip companies comeing in and paying a $20,000 strip but not cost effective for them um staff would go in and any pool we have do they would patch and level out and pay over the top of um I've talked to them about quality of it making sure we have quality in that project um if it's something the council wants to push out we can do that again this is 19,000 we have resurfacing money next year this is just something we're doing as a bigger part of the project in terms of the larger discussion I agree I think it's something we don't pay that many roads a year and we don't have the funing the funding to do that next year we have one Street in particular budgeted and that might be the test if you have those conversations that might be the one to say hey let's go out find a contractor to do it and see what that cost is effective to us um we may have to start training have to figure out a way to do it that's how we came to to this point I recall the council requesting a a road survey be conducted by staff and then they're they're produce like a grading of of all the different roads and then that be brought back to the council and I understand that maybe staff is using this to to make this determination to pave uh Clay Street but um I really think my my ask would be that we we delay this would it be possible to May roll this money over into next year's budget and let's really evaluate the streets and our process and yeah even even if it's too thin to Mill I still think we should consider adding additional base to these roads because obviously if it's too thin to mill then there's nothing there's practically nothing there it's just literally probably a thin layer of asphalt very much like what was over at Doctor's Medical where it was just that old school Paving that had eventually just deteriorate her away and then it was just a basic base now the concern where was that it did get above the curbing though yeah I think it's you know that's if we can't meal we're going to figure out how do we take because let take 11th in clay for example we do pay clay pave Clay they're gonna have to taper it down to 11 because you don't 11's here and this is here the only way to fix it is to take either take this up or take the base down so um it give you get much more cost but again just something want delay to talk about and have St figure out how do we do that in terms of getting the road base back to the keep them level we can take time to do in terms of the fun funding for next year there's $100,000 in resurfacing that typically is for passing po holes and fixing um strip some utilities cut some out of the road and then like I said Sydney Avenue is one road um we have budgeted for so if we want to push this forward push this back it's not a problem um we make have that point okay that's okay I'd like discussion so clay would it be better to table this or to just withdraw just just do a motion to continue until that until that council's actually to discuss that or generalized discussion of this type of project I I I'm [Music] AG I'll in my second okay okay sir yeah I just you know I'd like I'd hate to see it pushed in to a year from now um it's something that needs to be addressed um it's seeing more and more traffic it see school traffic um and again there's places where trees are uprooting the edge of the the Pavements cracking bus and stuff it needs to be addressed it's been patched and patched and patch and Patch um so it's not something that I would really prefer to see a year out from now um I mean I just it's just one of those streets there there's a lot of streets that need to be paved for sure for sure but um to do it the right way I I get and I understand um but I just hope we can find a way to do that before a whole year out are we talking about a year out just for clarification my motion is just to table it until October our second meeting in October when we have this workshop and then we can decide hey this might be the best okay course of action in general for all these because fortunately this is already in the budget if if if the budget gets approved through the two hearings right so okay okay yes sir I um the one um there's always another option and there and I hate to be a fly in the Orman because this is a good this is a good idea I like it I support it um but this is a a small low traffic low speed section um very low speed section and we want it to stay that way uh so I definitely wouldn't encourage widening it um but we have a lot of requests from the people using the park to go ahead and do the fence along 11th Street for child safety um that should be enough to do that I know if we consider doing it in house or not with the same staff probably not I don't know but um I just want to throw that out there as a possibility while we work on other things and maybe look at a larger budget item where we're dealing with more extensive roads because we can get the cost down because the mobilization on small segments is very costly which is why we can't get biders which means that we're not getting good pressure on the mar Market pressure to bring the cost down which means we're not going to get Milling because we don't have anything big enough which is why there was a when we're at the sales types we were looking at a strategy where we were doing group sections you know basically Paving within a sector working within segments where you had large enough projects to get the price down uh because you keep them mobilized so again we don't have that but the logic still stands if we can pull something into a larger project it should put enough pressure on it to bring in bidders so we can have people competing for it rather than just paying whatever the market price is for our Le and and material so there's there's consensus to move to have a discussion in October related to this and then we have a motion a second to continue any any further discussion any public comment yes sir Mr Cliff if you will station your name for the record good evening Council Cliff now hour never engineering uh I just wanted to throw the few things out there for you guys to consider one is um you know EV evaluating roadways to determine what roadways need base replaced and what roadways need to be milled and what roadways only need to be resurfaced um you could send 60 different people out there to look at them and you're going to get 60 different opinions the best way to attack a situation like this is with some geotechnical testing you guys can get a Core done for about 30 bucks with a recommendation on whether it should be milled should it be resurfaced and does it have adequate base because when they core it they core the asphalt they core the base and they core the subgrid and so you want to know before you um before you go after a larger type project um does was the road built with subgrade there's usually 12 inches of stabilized subgrade underneath the base uh if they built it with base how thick is it and did they use sand clay or is it Lime Rock and then how thick is your asphalt um unfortunately I've been on the losing end of uh resurfacing and Milling projects where we milled a neighborhood for example and uh the majority of the neighborhood had three or four inches asphalt but there were sections that only had 3/4 of an inch and so when you Mill through that 3/4 of an inch you're left with nothing and then it rains and then you're left trying to deal with uh how do you keep the road open because now you got wet sand clay that you're dealing with and the contractor that you hired to pave it is not going to come in and rebuild your base and so um it's very cost effective very cheap and easy to do and it's done pretty quickly and so you guys can make yourself a grid of the area that you're interested in trying to figure out what to do what with and uh get some geotechnical testing done uh very in uh cost effectively that will give you a recommendation on what might be done for different sections of roads that you want to attack and so and and the reason the reason I bring it up is because you can't just look at a road and tell what you got um but if they core it and present you with a report with recommendations that gives Kobe a good game plan for hey you know we've got one area town that we can resurface we got another area of town that needs to be milled and resurfaced and we got another area town that needs complete reconstruction and then you guys can budget for what you need to do to move forward and fix it right so I don't know if that helps you or hurts you but unfortunately I've milled three roads before thinking we were just going to resurface it um and ended up with just a disaster so um thanks yes ma'am uh who does that kind of services for geotechnical testing yeah there's quite a few around here uh so Magnum engineering does that type of uh testing know NOA is a company that does that kind of testing uh it's a Nova um specific to Engineers I mean is it a professional thing the engineering it's a geotechnical engineering company yes yes ma'am so Nova engineer I just never heard of that yeah before so know if it was a specific profession that it is okay it is a specific profession so Universal Engineering also does it uhuh uh Southern earth science does it there's at least five companies locally uh that work in this area that could give you guys proposals for educating yeah whatever map you put together um but it gives you guys a good a good path forward because you really know what you're dealing with and you've got the recommendation of a professional with a geotechnical background on on what the next step should be so so resurfacing this little small section you're talking about may be fine just to go ahead and do it to get it covered up if you got potholes everywhere but on the bigger picture you guys probably want to get some Tech in some areas so that you have kind of a game plan on moving forward thank you thank you any other public comment all right all those in favor say I I iorry oh yes I I all right motion to continue carries all right we will go to the lead service line srf loan Mr Townson so this is very similar to last meeting with the AC water main Design This is for the the laan application for lead service um the original award from D was $ 61,7 128 it was a 5050 5050 loan 50 Grant and we did sign city did sign a task order with duberry to perform those services for $56,000 so we would enter into the home application go through all the reimbursements and then whatever we end up whatever the final cost is of it that's what we would be on the hook for and so we're looking for a loan application resolution and legal opinion yes sir I have a question before I get involved in conversation does this involve any kind of approval for duberry to do any Services no it's already been approved no this is just the srf application itself okay thank you second we have a motion in a second any further discussion from the council and this is this is the program where if we get on it now we we're then eligible for subsequent so yeah so we would then have to go after srf funds for the construction portion of it um but we did also Liberty Partners did submit an Grant application to the Water Management District for this money as well so if we do not get the grant which we hope we do we would have to go to srf for the money to suppos again c c may have money do it in house never all right traditional R any public comment seeing none all those in favor say I I I I I hi eyes Carrie all right we will go to 3d1 Liberty partners of Tallahasse that going to be you or that be be James Mr James good evening everyone James swinsky Liberty Partners at Tallahassee first wanted to speak to a couple of items tonight um this just came up last week so it's not on the agenda but we were recently notified that we were awarded 150,000 through the US do safer streets and roads for all grant program um so that's similar to the reconnecting communities project in scope and that it will help planning for multimodal and pedestrian street improvements so sidewalks streetscapes lighting throughout the city and it's going to help lay the foundation for future implementation Grant awards for actually doing those projects um so I wanted to briefly announce that let you all know about it uh speaking to what's on the screen um a few years back the Department of State youall are aware of this but the Department of State awarded roughly 373,000 for renovation of the second floor of the chiaka Hall of Brotherhood um now this project has been in the works for a long time as you all are aware we had to fight hard for the Department of State to allow us to use previously procured architectural drawings for this um they really wanted to make us redo all of the architecture and engineering behind the structure and obviously with this limited amount of funding we wanted to help the city carry that as far as possible uh so what we did is we went to that for y'all the Department of State eventually ended up approving using a past set of architectural drawings that cover all the necessary elements for construction um and so now the Final Phase is to re-release the RFP to look for qualified construction management companies who will actually undertake this project or as much of it as possible with the remaining funding um so that's what you all have in front of for consideration so I'm I'm going to open open it up with this I was uh at the hall of Brotherhood today um participating in the Main Street quarterly meeting in which there was over 52 uh main streets from around the state on the first floor of the building um it was full it was great it was fantastic to see that room full um I did take the opportunity during one of the breaks to walk upstairs um for those of you you that may be able to recall uh when we renovated the bottom portion um I spoke very strongly about making sure that the bottom portion was open and available and not chopped up into a bunch of smaller rooms and so uh the council at the time eventually agreed with me and uh We Shrunk The Kitchen we eliminated an office we eliminated some storage room I'm I'm firmly believe looking at the occupancy in there today we would not have been able to host that event in the hollow Brotherhood had it stayed the way it was originally designed with that in mind I would like to ask the council please consider in the upstairs portion of this that we delete that room that was added it was not original to to the hall of Brotherhood it was a room that's literally added right in the dead center that forms basically two smaller rooms plus the room that they're in there in the middle it basically breaks it up into three with like little mini hallways let's just delete that let's make it wide open just like the first floor is and then that way if they need to host events up there it's wide open and can be used for whatever um that that that's my request is that we at least make that a part of the the approval to move forward is that we look into deleting that room that was added again it was added after the fact it's not original to the building the the Flor like when I went to PR there back in high school that that room up there was wide open so I I really would like to see that room be wide open again so that it can host numerous people because as as it's configured right now you could maybe fit 20 people in any one room that's up there you're taking that second floor from a capacity of 75 to 100 down to maybe 20 20 or 40 at the tops so I you know that's my my discussion on it I'm not gonna I'm not going to chime in on that part yet because James is trying not to freak out so I'm gonna I'm gonna give him a hand but I want I want y'all to go ahead and discuss it I'll I'll participate but because there's no reason for me to refuse myself on this one because it doesn't involve any of the Consultants um but then then we'll have to talk through how we can or may be able to do that but I want youall to have the discussion first um in principle I support it uh there's some things we'll have to look at but I want I just let the conversation continue first what what say concerns I'd rather not distract with that I'd rather y'all decide if you want to do it or not first well there's no motion on the floor so I'm want to make a motion for discussion no I'll second you just want to make a motion to approve it right now yeah well we can have discussion without a motion chair so allows under Rober rules but the I guess the I'm sorry I didn't I didn't realize that so that's what we so so if the discussion so the general rule is if the discussion is not as to the motion saw at hand you are a deliberative body so the chair may perit now what you're not able to do is have an ongoing Lively discussion about the specific Grant award and the approval I don't want to approve it I do at that point let's get a motion on point this is going beyond that so with that being said it is within the chi chch I'll I'll make the motion I'd like to make the motion to um move forward with the draft RFP has presented second for second discussion I'll second okay so we have a motion in a second uh Mr scers I think you had asked councilman Valley some concerns so um the difficulty that we had in in terms of getting this project to moveed forward uh with the Department was that our original documentation uh was pin let's say um the contractor and the architect were the same person and so it it allowed a certain flexibility and latitude and um so we had issues getting things put together in a way that would allow us to get their approval even though they've approved the entire project previously so it doesn't it doesn't make a lot of sense but we're we're just dealing with a bureaucracy so they saw they saw this as a new project rather as a continuation so they wanted a whole new set of documentation the current documentation includes that room so uh James's issue or concern is going to be how are we going to get them to approve it without the room if we've already got it approved and it's got the room in it now a deletion of something like that as long as uh it will depend on how we deal with the contractor and how we form the contract uh and the Willing participation of who is currently duber is assisting with it on the actual exec part so that's that's where we're at on that one what were the original architectural oh I'm sorry oh that's exact the original architectural designs I know that one of the issues that came up with this was that we couldn't find it at one time then miss Hender uh Miss Dr Henderson had said that she may have had a set of plans and then that's when we went back out but how was that uper FL designed originally sure so uh Chris Mitchell did manage the grant originally and so he had copies of documents we were able to find digital records of other uh copies so we were able to piece together a a reasonably complete set uh and it did include the addition of the room because that's what that group had originally proposed and put together and I'll say based on the information I had they had intended that so they could have multiple meetings at the same time the problem is it doesn't allow you to open up the entire floor for one meeting you can only have individual sessions so they they set it up to be a room on the left a room on the right and then a conference room in the middle um which is great if you're doing big conferences and need breakout space and you have the main room downstairs but it limits you in terms of large events yes ma'am uh do you know which group which group did that because I have been working with the women who you know raised all the money and they were very excited Kobe and I went and met with them on several different occasions um I'm not sure like what you just said who's the group that put that top design in where it has these that he's asking to be or well there was a group that did funding and then uh uh Dr uh Henderson and uh several other folks were involved MCN was inv Mr mcnight was involved in that as well so it was there was a funding group but there was also the committee that headed up the design portion and they were working with the architect directly as my understanding but it's a little bit before my time because that's been going on for a long time I think proba Mr that that's correct so when I was running for City originally back in 2018 2019 they were in the early stages of of the renovation project on the first floor and they were running into issues with money because the original Grant was for $499,000 and obviously that was nowhere near enough so they were at the point at that moment in time right around 2018 2019 where they were out of money and they were going to need to go for another half million dollars to complete it that's what they were told at the time by the contractor when I got elected and we were once again faced with do we go back out do we get another gr I at that moment in time I pleaded with my fellow council members to reduce the footprint on the first floor so again We Shrunk The Kitchen we deleted offices we deleted storage rooms so that it is now what much more open than what it was originally in the plans that were submitted back in 2019 we then received a second award we proceeded through that construction phase of that second award we got all the way down to the end of that construction phase and as I predicted the contractor the contractor architect conveniently came back to us asking for another $300,000 I do want to call out because we're rehashing history here that at that time other council members were very very specific with the current contractor architect about the cost of the building and the continued cost of the of the construction and we were assured at that time that it was going to be less than $300,000 and as you can see what here what is here before us tonight is now $372,000 because that cost suddenly grew um I don't know if that if the 372 would even complete it in its current state I I don't know we don't we won we won't know until we get the applications out but I I think that this is an opportune time to look at this look at how the building's been used in the last four years um well how long has it been open approximately two two and a half years the grant the the first floor Ohi been been since I've been January 22 okay so so it leads to years so I'm asking the council look at how it's been used right we haven't had a demand or a need for all these individual breakout spaces again I was up there today it's only part framed out so I think now would be the time if we're going to look at this and we're going to evaluate it now would be the time to do it there's only a handful of studs up there and and a little bit of electrical work that would probably need to be done now would be the time to to delete that room and keep it as wide open as possible so that it can be functional just like the downstairs is so that I think that kind of provides a little bit of color to the situation and one one thing about the RFP that I that I wanted to make you all aware of is it contemplates a construction firm not being able to finish out the project with the amount there and it tells them that if there are costs that cannot be covered under the grant to budget them separately and show which items can be covered by the grant so if you wanted to solicit bids or if you wanted to have us talk to construction companies about saying hey this is what we can do with the funding and if that did not include the breakup of the top floor then that could be a potential option to work within the scope of the existing RFP because because I think we had problems finding bids to start with on this if I remember from my time here cor well but hang on part of my heartb for this for the last five years has been we allowed ourselves as a city to get into a situation where we had a builder architect that came in and and did this all the same Builder architect that did the previous renovation prior to 2018 2019 but here we are in 2024 lacking a true set of plans as built plans from said Builder architect because it has been not an ideal situation is the nice way to put it for a long long time this building has been renovated numerous times over the years and I think councilman Valley you brought up uh at a at a meeting last month how we're already seeing issues with some of the work that was performed we already have window seals that are rotten out I was in there today and notice the notice one of the window seals on the first floor is already now you can literally put your finger through the bottom of it on the inside I'll add to that when I was doing some of my research on this in 2018 2019 there was a separate bid that went out I correct me if I'm wrong here because you got a good memory on this there was a separate bid that went out to deal with the Koopa on top and the Koopa on top it's already falling apart it's already it's you can look you can just stand out at the the building right now and look at it and see it's already falling apart and I remember vividly sitting in the meetings and hearing them say we got to redo it it's it's you know the columns were the columns were rotten and they they replaced the The Columns but we've got major issues with the building and we we don't need to continue to put good money after bad you know we we just we need to really try to look at this strategically and figure out what we're going to do James I I you know I like James's discussion of maybe ask them to to bring back alternates that's basically what you're saying is to bring back alternates correct yes ma'am I like that too what you recommended I think that's a wonderful solution to the issue that we're facing um that's building is important to the city to the residents to everything I have heartburn hearing what he just suggested that if that is really occurring we need need to talk maybe about having our attorney go after some of this because that is absolutely ridiculous that we put out this money and these things should have been warranties to support what it was that we paid to have accomplished and I'm sorry that's a separate issue but it needs to be addressed so it sounds to me as if uh we need to bring that up as a separate discussion not to labor this one but that it is goes hand in hand it does and and we brought this up um or I brought it up a while back and brought some photos it gets a little tricky um construction law is has certain time lines for certain things um I think this one would would probably fall under a latent defect which has a limitation of seven years um the one year would have been the warranty in just in terms of just normal workmanship but we have to be cautious of and very cognitive is that we have a responsibility for maintenance during that entire timeline so if it comes back that we're not doing our our proper maintenance it'll that that won't push that won't go anywhere the rod that I was seeing at the windows makes me feel like it was covered rot that was covered over rather than actually repaired to replace which it should have been and so the problem was hidden rather than corrected which is why you have windows that are pushing out I didn't want to walk uh our our attorney through leum but again that's going to require a specialized person probably a couple of special L people I would be happy to investigation I'd do it but it would not be appropriate since it's a city facility um but um there is there is an issue there's something to at least investigate at the very least I think we can have a discussion later on that yeah the while the building is important to the community and is expensive to maintain as as I'm hearing a lot of this really for the first time um but we need to find a way if we're going to have that building that it has multiple purposes that it can can be used for um and as far as upstairs I haven't seen it in a while is the kitchen still upstairs there's no kitchen at all it used to be one upstairs some very basic framing so they framed out when I was up there today the bathrooms are framed out on the east side like if you're if you're looking at the lake on on the left side where the elevator is those bathrooms are framed out there's nothing there's no fixtures or any Plumbing in there then there's the room that has been added in the middle it's framed out but again just Framing and some some basic electrical and and HBA most of the HBA is still up in the original Raptors and then I don't really recall what is left on the on the the right side which would be the the west side I believe there's I didn't I didn't get that far over I just looked at that that Center section and then went back downstairs but it I encourage us I know at one point we even had a special meeting in which we all went over there and toured the building and so maybe that's maybe we need to call for another special meeting to go whether it's a special meeting whether you go one1 the city manager I think it's very important yeah yeah because you go up there and you realize that it it becomes three tiny rooms yeah that when are we ever going to rent out three tiny rooms on the second floor the should talk about so so an option for something like that is if if it could be done in an open space for the entire L these dividers like you see in schools sound PR divider draw the curtain and you have multiple rooms for for smaller meetings if if you know you need a bigger room it's there they open it up but if it's if you need three uh three Workshop rooms or something you can you can draw those curtains and use it that way so you got dual purposes for a big open space like that but anyway this is a hard question but I gotta ask it we is there any way that you or Danielle can open up the budget and tell me how much revenue right now Mr Beer bomb had said some statistics and I'm just curious how much do we bring in rents from renting that out second any statistics like you know we're all new it's like I bet you we don't have any statistics uh like what did we use it for before it was needing repair did was it a was it a building that was successfully always rented for events or is it more of a historical it's buried over the past I'd event to say if you look at use that facility it has had eyes and the last 30 years there been times where it's been fully Community serving there been times where most action sees when the high school would run it out of we um but that's vared as the city has had it in better shape and in the wor shape that's probably the best way to look at it because I'm for some reason I'm just thinking that we're only bringing in like 20 brand a year basically on so this year we l specifically lined the item out the facility rentals and talk brother was one obviously and so estimated revenues was 25,000 and we put 25,000 in expense line of that billing so um looks like according to this in find out what col this do you all have additional questions for me iang okay looks like it's averaging right around $20,000 so 2021 it did around 18 Sor just lost my line here uh in 2021 it did 20 and then it did 18 and then we budgeted 20 so it's it's hovering right around $20,000 yeah I thought it was a low compared to but it I think the significance though of the building itself I would hope that it would generate though more if we could get it back to a functional both up and downstairs definely would we turn down weddings all we don't turn them down weding weddings will not come because they don't have a second floor a lot of do it and the one one problem that we've also discussed is that we're not really marketing it very well um you know just probably because we have haven't well the upstairs would would certainly help but we are restrictive in terms of hours we are you know restrictive in terms of alcohol you know we we we allow it but it's you know it has a step involved which does make it difficult for folks um but uh something that we talked about in the past is if we had stock photography and began marketing weddings and events for not just the hall but for the lakeyard and our other facilities uh again you do create the potential draw to begin to monetize an asset that we have within the community to help support the restoration and preservation of something that we do love and we want to maintain we have been doing a lot of uh public events there so we do we have had a lot of meetings there uh that are for other public entities or nonprofits so it is getting utilized uh but it's not getting monetized and that is important because it's otherwise you know like the cemetery and and like you know to some extent the library which we'll talk about in the future these are these are historic assets that we've inherited but we want to preserve them we want to maintain them for their legacy but they do not generate enough to take care of themselves but them but we have been very successful in Grants but grants is the way we've been filling that void right now but you know when you're just depending and waiting on grants it's painful but I I I can provide some background in terms of what's going up there if You' like I have I pulled up the drawing I I'm okay with that the l oh yeah all else want to see if that's so it's got two bathrooms uh two on each side of the facility two across from the elevator and two across from what is an upstairs small service kitchen so there is a service kitchen plant for up there what's different from the downstairs essentially is the room in the middle which is approximately I'm going to say it's about 20 by 20 it might be a little bit less but that's what it looks like but it creates two hallways on the front and the back uh with a doorway between them so it's it is very disruptive it's not even like it's just a uh almost like a Tabernacle in the center where you walk around it but it's really they put doors in so it's really disruptive but again I think the opportunity that was presented by the form of the proposal and that price items that are outside of the budget scope or what would be within the bids from people that were submitting a proposal would be you know technically omitted again gives us a work around from going back and redesigning what we can't afford to do is pay you know a consultant or someone else to get rid of it and resubmit to jurisdiction okay we we have a motion of a second is there any further discussion or otherwise i' got some public speak I'm just curious is there a deadline on this to get this money this 300 isn't there a deadline we've been pushing this for a long time there is the end of 2024 I believe but end of this year they've been more than willing to offer additional EXP exension so we anticipate submitting an extension request as we've done in the past receiving request and this is the first year that the city has put Match in the budget our hard match which is uh 80,000 $80,000 $874 and also an in kind of 12499 so those those dollars are in the budget this year okay all right I will open it up for public comment yes ma'am if we set your name for the record please ladies and gentlemen my name is Sarah commander and I have catered in that building more times than I can count um and I can tell you that breaking that upstairs into three little rooms is going to be a nightmare um people who are going to want to rent that building and I'm talking weddings and receptions and Par ities and that sort of thing um need an open space um it's a good idea about those closing doors I think that would be um if you have to have doors I think that was what I would recommend but I'm I'm strongly recommend that you leave it as open as possible and when you said service kitchen what do you mean by service kitchen um you're going to need a a double syn up there um you're going to need at least a microwave although you know um before they redid it we had a stove up there and refrigerator and an ice machine um to fully uh utilize that second floor um you're going to me need some of that equipment I mean I know there's some downstairs um but going are the stairs still there I haven't been yeah going up and down those stairs with food let me tell you what it's a trip well we have an elevator now so um but I would I do like your suggestion you're going to to me rent it more often if you have an open space thank you yes ma'am please state your name for the record and while she's walking up there is a service sink upstairs which will includes ref uh Refrigeration uh floor drains and um some a lot of countertop but it's a it's a service cater kitchen not a cooking kitchen does that mean it has two sinks like she said compartment I recently rented the building and there's a couple issues that none of y'all have thought about y'all have exposed the beams underneath the sound how are youall going to deal with sound if you have people renting the space upstairs and people renting the space downstairs to deal with the noise because that's going to be pretty loud okay nobody thought of that well I mean typically we rent the whole would rent the whole building I mean we would just have to trial and error on on how it would play out because we have never rented the top FL as it is stands now so we'd have to do it and see how how it turns out well I can tell you that um I recently rented the building and we had about 50 to 60 people there and and that was comfortable in that downstairs if you chopped up that upstairs I mean unless you're really catering to you know a church um women's group or something like that I don't really know how well that's going to do chopped up I think the the doors not the ugly ones but some nice wood doors as part of the structure that roll and open up where you could have it as both uses now the kitchen is not the greatest in the current building downstairs you have a warmer you have a refrigerator you have no freezer I think there was a microwave if it was it was off in the corner and then you have a t two tables to actually prep and sink that's it so as far as there's no stove there's no um uses for anything like that so I think that that's something to think about at least something to warm a sauce or warm something on and there may have been a microwave but I didn't I didn't see it um but you just have a warming rack so you put your food in there and it holds but if you had to actually microwave some I don't remember there being I'm like and like I said I may be wrong on that but I think the sound is going to be the biggest issue with the what y'all did downstairs thank you any other public comment all right I'll come back to the council yes sir so just address a couple of things there if there is a concern about sound um because it's not a sleeping accommodation I wouldn't get too heavy-handed with it but uh the clouds are the things that are hanging downstairs the lights they call them clouds um those things where the lights are those can have insulation on top to help with sound deadening if it's an issue um but an underlayment underneath the flooring upstairs would probably be the most effective um if it's possible we'll have to take a look but we are limited it is a historic structure I want caution there a uh a hood would be required if we went in with the stove that hood would have annual inspections and annual costs associated with it and also a fire suppression system Additionally the idea of someone cooking in a 150 year old Pine structure that is pretty much kindling uh is scary to me um right now it's set up as a caterin kitchen the microwave is considered low Hazard but um although it would expand some uses of a full kitchen I I would recommend against just based on safety and cost that that was some of the the previous considerations that were again it originally had scoped in a full-blown kitchen and it was massive it it when you go in the first floor it basically went out to that column that's now in between the kitchen and where it is now it it would have consumed that entire column that's that's there um all of the all the the life safety and fire safety issues were brought up and it was that's when it was decided to shrink those both of those kitchens down to be catering kitchens so there's no Open Flame there's no actual cooking um I myself hosted a aund over 100 person uh Gaya for the theater there we had a caterer come in use the space didn't have any problem sure I would have loved for it to have been larger I hate that the Riser pipe is going up through the middle of that kitchen right there but U that that's that's unfortunate but we we managed there there's warmers there's ice machines there's coolers um I think it was it was more there's the three compartment sink it was more than adequate for what we're doing and again just like Miss Miss Commander said 99% of these people are going to be catering they're going to be bringing in a professional that's either going to bring in the sternos or bring in the food already prepped and they just need somewhere to Simply prepare and ser yes ma'am um Mr Harrison's idea with the yay just do the curtains I looked up and I see on the ceiling here this room must be a divided room and I've never seen it closed but it it just made me look and when I look I'm thinking oh there's an idea right there you can take that one over there if you want too may not be T you can't literally take um but could someone also tell me what is the motion because I know it started off something but we've kind of modified it Mr CL yes sir the motion was just to move forward with the but I was thinking that we wanted to modify it we can't I liked his suggestion do we want to include the r the uh the request for alternates alterate I so what we can do is we can approve the draft RFP but also make sure that the wording is clear in there that we'll accept alternates for cost proposal so we would direct staff to provide cost alternate with The deletion of the I don't know what we call it the CER conference room as a alternate Mr K yes couple questions again that um the alternates do we can either add them be preferable to add them into the RP or to do anend addend War allowing alternance and identifying what result okay James on the first paragraph of the RFP it says a not to exceed amount of the 372 811 but the city's required to spend 25% of whatever the cost is so does the not exceed need to be the actual 372 plus the 80 I mean I know we spend 25% so the project only comes in 300,000 we have to we don't get reimburse 25% of that but if that if it's not to exceed is 372 then we don't spend no money so it depends on how you want to structure it if you all want to structure it so the construction company completes 372 of the work and then you add that additional in the end if there's basically if you wanna if you want to talk about an alternate option if you want to spend 372,000 getting your basic space in place and then going out separately or you can structure it we could revise that to include the 80s the city's budget for that additional 880,000 oh one last thing um I can't I haven't seen in there is there a mandatory or we doing a mandatory pre-bid in in the RFP it's not included okay no I recommend we do do that with this building for contractors who come out have to walk it and actually see it and talk about the Alternatives I agree with that they do need to walk if there's going to be some issues in terms of there's material on site that's going to be considered part of your your bid process so they really have to see it if we could have someone actually quantify what's out there it would be very helpful in terms of our Fitters uh I would suggest that we had someone from the city do that in terms of the amount I would include the full amount but I would uh include at least a at least a 15% contingency uh as part of that so I wouldn't I would include the whole amount but 15% of it I would recommend being a renovation addition with a lot of unknowns uh remain as contingency and what we can do is if if that's the opinion of the council we can approve a motion to approve the draft RFP understanding that we will need to revise that upward and also have a mandatory proved conference so so if there's additional funds above the 372 or whatever where are we going to go not to exceed the amount because Kobe's still got to find that the funding in the budget as we sit here and prepare next year you're good with that addition is in there I just want to make sure because if we do spend 72 I we wouldn't be hitting our requirements I want to make sure I don't want to cut the city short on this project since the money's there and we required to spend I I guess what I'm I talking about is above that if it if it goes beyond so technically add add 372 plus the 80,000 which is $450,000 take that's what we're required to spend if that Contra if that contractor cost is more than 372 we've got we have to spend 80,000 require spend 25% of whatever cost is the project we won't get reimbursed okay sir one question is part of that how did we structure it with any in-house Consultants or or our costs wouldn't any of our costs be included as part of that match already and can we use any match in terms of the work we've done leading in preparation for this which would go against your amount well that's that would be the SE for 12,499 correct correct so we did budget the whole 12,499 is hard match and dollars but I think once we take James's time and staff's time and any other time that goes toward this project we'll be able to reduce the $124.99 but we will not be able to reduce the 25% correct so that only concern making sure we cover everything in terms of the not to exceed number and include our funds that we have separately but just cover it all so we're not going over correct correct okay so so to summarize we're gonna we're gonna proceed with the RFP with a couple of changes and that is we're going to have the the request for some alternate bids to delete consider deleting the room right and then we're also going what was the other thing we're going to do mandatory prebid mandatory pre-bid so th those are the modifications to it if we proceed is everyone good with that anybody have any further discussion on that and to change the not to exceed James what would be what would you increase the not to exceed amount to be you would increase it the full amount and specifically tell us what that would be you don't mind be the 372 plus 8,000 plus 80,7 want to make sure we're clear on okay that's sorry one more thing I want to go back to your question because I I took it a little bit differently you're asking we as a council two years ago I think it was basically pay money out of our own pocket to finish those stairways no we actually were using funds that were remaining within the contract and we utilize the full funds to maximize the the grant okay so we didn't there but the concern was anything that we can use as match that we've already spent making sure that we're capturing that okay and anything that we intend to use as match from our inhouse that's not part of the contract because that's not part of the contract correct is what I'm saying that's the one I want to make sure we separate so we're not overshooting okay all right everybody good all right all those in favor say I I I I I I how Carrie thank you all very much thank you Mr James All right we will move on to duberry Engineers Mr nower good evening Council uh um first off I will start off by apologizing um I wanted to print you guys five copies of the August inspection report so that you can just see the current August inspection report and I printed two copies of June July August so there's a June report July August July report and August report and I've got two copies of them here I'm going to email all of it to Kobe so that he can distribute it to all you guys so you'll have photos of uh everything that up to date CLI does everybody just get one so um yeah we'll um we'll send it I'll email everybody out a copy okay uh so anyways um I'll start off with the big picture um the big picture at the airport terminal right now is that the Architects uh drove from Tampa today uh they'll be on site all day tomorrow uh doing punch list and meeting with the contractor all day tomorrow um um we don't know you know what their punch list is going to consist of and what's going to take to address their questions and issues um but what we do know at this point is that they're not going to be done the contractor is not going to be done by the end of September and so uh as of yesterday they're believing that they're they believe that they'll be done in four to six weeks and so the the change order four that was presented to the city council and you guys approved was for them to be completed with uh what we call substantial completion by August 31st and then they would have 30 days after that to complete punch list items so we have an inspection tomorrow with the architect uh but there's still some items that are not complete that have been uh kind of a problem um the biggest problem uh that has been a challenge is getting the HVAC system up and running and so we've had permanent power for about three and a half weeks uh the contractor has been ready to start up the system for three and a half weeks and unfortunately the specifications require that a u Factory representative from LG has to be on site for the startup and so for three and a half weeks they've been trying to get LG manufacturers representative to the site and so uh that's causing a bunch of issues one is uh our built-in Cabinetry that's all ready to go ready for installation cannot be installed until we have climate control inside the building a lot of those built-in items are wood and so until there's climate control inside the building that stuff can't be installed um and so we're hopeful that LG is going to have a manufacturer's rep there this week we still don't have an exact date from them uh but it's part of the specifications that were put out by avcon who is your mechanical engineer and so um don't know a way around it I brought the issue up through uh about three weeks ago two and a half weeks ago three weeks ago asking if there was a way that they could wave that requirement because the contractor has LG certified technicians ready to start the system and they sent me an email saying that uh in their professional opinion uh that should not happen until the manufacturers representative is on site who said that uh avcon and so we have been in about a two and a half coming up on really three three- week low where our mechanical contractor has LG certified Representatives Who start these systems all the time and theyve been told they cannot do that until LG has a manufacturers rep on site so that's kind of where we're at right now um there's a lot of things that should happen pretty fast once we have the building acclimated and the HVAC systems up and running but for about three and a half weeks we have been waiting on a manufacturers representative now there's other things that have been getting done during that time uh the contractor has been working weekends uh they did the sheetrock for example in about uh about two weeks they sheetrocked the entire building which is pretty unbelievable uh it's been primed so all the sheet rocks in it's all been primed they have all the acoustical ceiling tile grids up and they're ready to install all the grids they that's another item that they don't want to install until it's climate controlled because the acoustical ceiling tiles don't do well in a building that has moisture in it and so anyways uh we had spoken last time I presented to you guys about having a ribbon cutting ceremony at the end of September and I'm thinking now that it's going to be more like the end of October and so um just wanted to give you guys the facts let you know where we're at uh it is looking fantastic the front of the building looks great um a lot of the Interior is pretty well along um looks a lot different sheetrocked than it did without sheetrock but uh really until we have um till we have the HVAC system up and running a lot of the Interior finishing components cannot be completed so that's kind of where we're at so be happy to try to answer any questions you guys have um and uh that is the status of the union for the building so Cliff are you asking for a motion on anything right now I'm not asking for a motion on anything um I know that uh you know contract wise their contract should probably be extended to match whatever it is you know that our completion date is going to be but again at this time you know we don't know an exact date uh because we don't know when we're getting our AC up to finish all those interior components and so um I'm not sure what Mo what the motion would be Mr chairman uh because I just uh don't have an answer on when LG's manufacturers rep is going to be on site any questions for Mr Cliff yes sir any recommendations on how to proceed from the architect so they'll be they're here today they just drove in today we're meeting with them tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock I've already spoken with them and they have referred everything to avcon because the architect did not design the HVAC system avcon did uh but I think they share some of the same concerns about the acoustical ceiling tiles uh and um certainly the builtin um the built-in Cabinetry Cabinetry and the built-in desks and all the things that are ready to just be set inside the building are in a climate controlled facility right now and we don't want them coming to the building until the building is fully acclimated are we paying for storage no ma'am the contractor is Council I I think at some point when we're a month or two beyond the completion of this we need to sit down and do a a SWAT analysis on this this whole uh so shall I say Fiasco that has been this terminal there there's a lot of I think Lessons Learned on this this terminal from the contract to how it was engineered to these kind of little specifications you know I think Cliff You' even mentioned to me some of the some of the things that were specified on the interior of the building were just way overbuilt for what it is so I think that at some point it would be smart for us to do a little bit of a SWAT analysis on on this major construction project and how we can set ourselves up for success in the future with uh with other projects that are of this magnitude or even larger and don't get me wrong it's going to be a fantastic terminal and you know it's going to be done I mean we were originally promised April of 2024 but at least it'll be completed within 2024 at this point I'm not gonna bet on minute wait a minute I would like to put a quarter on the table if anybody has any connections with LG we could really use them right now the only thing bothers me is it sound I don't like appcon response for one but it with as much distant work and remote work as people do I know even myself I've reached out to Engineers with technology every time and we've Ed something as simple as FaceTime to walk through a product that's in New Jersey that I'm I'm waiting for that be delivered and then how to go through things so realistically if you've got LG certified technicians on site and LG can be utilized through video conferencing to where they could sit there and say yeah you met all these checks let's go ahead and turn this on and check different readings so that's the only thing that I think is kind of crazy well uh so um unfortunately um a couple weeks ago when I was there every room that I went to went into was full of electricians and plumbers and everybody else and I had the same question from every room I walked into are you the AC guy because you know it's sweltering inside that building and all those trades are having to work right now and their conditioning should be blowing and so uh I did talk to Zach about it talked to Kobe about it uh reached out to abcon and uh they sent me an email that I forwarded back to Kobe and Zach basically stating that um they highly recommended that not happen in other words starting it up without a manufacturer's representative on site should not happen according to them can it be done our warranty I'm gonna guess that's what the concern is is the warranty yeah I was about say what what does LG say just because that's what abcon says what does LG say uh I don't know the answer to that um I could certainly dive into that um yeah I mean if if LG H says you've got factory certified technicians we're okay with you starting it up then what what's clay what's the us they'll give it to in writing it helps yeah well we'd have to have it in yeah that's the question give it to in writing we good yeah I just being new at this you know I'm just curious as to you know what agreement we have with LG and this whole contract you know to to provide this or if we do have an agreement of any sort but it seems to me I'm sitting here thinking about all this Snowball Effect of equipment you you're been held up to install there's no reflection on you by the way um but you can't all because there air conditioning so I'm not familiar with the payment process has LG been paid already for this equipment or is it does that come later or what seems to me if they've been paid um wow I mean I think our contract though was with the bigger you know the general contractor all these bringing up is that that person that contractor's issue not ours but it it's affect us based on what well it sounds like it's affecting everything at this point I'll work on trying to get a contact for LG and share that with Kobe and maybe we can have a call with LG and see if there's anything the city can do to try to try to push it along um but that's about the best thing I know to do we've been battle we've been fighting this fight for a while for over a year now with these Ty of things so um maybe best to Architects tomorrow see what they say and then if not I can call do and see why we cannot get moved forward with B Cliff what is the what is the actual end date on the current contract so the end date now is the uh September 30th or 31st I always forget how many days are in September but uh the end of September whatever that is so at this point we're probably premature [Music] to the way I'm looking is we're probably premature to give them an extension today because we do have a council meeting on the 23rd of September so why don't we just bring back an update on the 23rd of September and look at where we are Toby can you update us like after tomorrow like I don't want to wait till the 22nd to figure out what has occurred between today and the 22nd I want time to me or if you let me know what time you meeting Tom I can be out there yeah meeting at 8:30 on site so ddb will be there uh Michael T Baker Michael T Baker who's the architect for the project they will be there with two of their project managers um that were intimately involved in the design of the whole building and so they'll be putting together a punch list for the contractor and this will be a big topic of discussion tomorrow as well yes sir if um if we are going to pursue any kind of action in the future I would recommend that you get an opinion from the architect now in terms of how we would proceed if we exceeded our September 31st date um because they're they to make a recommendation on that they are they are well aware of this situation as well actually I actually went to the architect first uh thinking that they could help me and they of course referred to avcon and then avcon sent me an email saying no uh the contractors uh certified LG technicians cannot start the system who's Arend is it abcon who's like you're speaking of an architect is the architect our vendor architect is sub of of avcon okay so you guys our contract is with avcon our contract is with I can simplify for it you guys hired avcon to do everything from the beginning from the beginning and they were termin so the architect the architect was working for avcon um that architect that was working for avcon was later hired by duberry as a subc consultant because they were the architect of of record for the project and so because they were the architect of record for the project they had to be involved in the project completion and so duberry hired afcon and duberry hired Michael T Baker because those were the Architects and Engineers of record duberry didn't engineer any of it we just overseeing the contract for the city and so it's it's uh it's been a challenge let's say just to be clear they afcon was hired for the terminal wholly separately from Avon's continuing servicing contract that was terminated completely separately completely separate situation avcon actually had failed again was doing some research on some stuff avcon had failed to return the contract that the council had already approved and then we ran into issues with the question of how much they were charging the city for certain project s and if I remember correctly another council member made the motion to withdraw the approval of the the contract because it had been well over a month that the contract had been sitting there unsigned by avcon that's how that went down and again that's toally separately from this terminal project the coning service contract that's now handled by barge was wholly separate from the terminal so how's barge involved in all of this that's going on to close out this they no involv nool in this project but they're done we hired them and they're done contract they're on a continuing service contract at the airport that deals with General Services out there moving forward with the exception of the R any other questions of Cliff any further discussion yeah I wish I had better news for you guys I apologize but uh that's just uh the facts and that's where we're at that's where we're at thank you CL thank you guys all right we will move on to 4 A1 public hearing planning director Mr Wallace this is a small scale Amendment and so we will do these both as one public hearing but I will swear everyone small scale Amendment anyone wishing to speak on planning items 4 A1 and2 2024 SSA 08 in 2024 rz7 in premise llc's request needs to be sworn at this time please stand raise your right hand repeat after me hold on Clay hold on Clay I want to be absolutely clear if you want to make a comment on these two agenda items you need to come in and raise your hand at this point you need to be sworn in if you're going to stand up ask the council questions participate it is a qua a Judicial proceeding you must be sworn so if you are not sworn at this time you will not be offering comment testimony or question hand to see I do hereby swear or affirm I do hearby swear or affirm that the testimony I present that the testimony I present be the truth be the truth the whole truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth nothing but the truth staff and the applicant are sworn no members of the public thank you sir Mr Wallace okay this is 2024 D ss-08 it's Mike McCormick on behalf of impr premis LLC and they are requesting a future land use Amendment from medium density residential to commercial for property located at the southwest corner of Walton Road and Highway 83 North this is a 1.67 acre tract of land it was previously zoned C2 uh several months ago the applicant had requested a rezoning um to the medium density residential while maintaining the the corner of the lot for commercial purposes when he got into the design of the Town Homes which are located west of this due to some of the um slope due due to the topography um the size of the Heather Lane Town Homes which the council's previously approved was shrink down the number of units was um was brought down by 20 or so which left additional room for commercial development along Walton Road or excuse me long 83 so what the applicant intends to do is to construct uh cut down some of the Hill uh and construct a retaining wall to make up for that elevation change um to be able to develop this into right now two separate buildings all right do we have a motion uh I'll make a motion to approve for discussion I want I a second a second all right we have a motion in a second yes sir so he's wanted to reduce the town homes down to two buildings there what I remember from the original discussions about this piece of property was that that lot was too small realistically for anything over there and because of the fact that that was Highway 83 in that Corridor we were trying to make it commercial because that was really the only purpose for it there now it's starting to seem like the purpose for large portion of that track is commercial and not residential at this point and there's a lot of traffic in and out of there the entire tract is around 18 Acres I believe the original property that he retained on the corner was around three AC ACR um so this would be an additional 1.67 added to that so 13 acres will be for residential development and approximately five for commercial development I agree with councilman scor's comment you know this this seems like deja vu because the the request was made at the corner I I just don't understand I'm not necessarily opposed to it but I just don't understand why we just didn't do it all at once while we're while we're kind of parting it out yeah and Mr McCormack is here he can answer that question um Mr you want to call him up Sir will you come up yes sir can you just help us understand how we we started with just one corner piece and now we we seem to kind of be adding pieces and while we approach that way versus just one one request for the whole thing the original parcel was all C2 originally and then when we went to reson it to R2 we did a conceptual layout so that's where you get the R2 zoning now and then once we did the Topo and the final design that the city improved we couldn't use that last little piece that's it's not on the corner it's a little bit further south on 83 as a residential so we wanted to reone it back to Commercial and then that's basically where we're going to offset the other building similar to what the sun stop we did in base BRS okay so it all was C2 to begin with and then we rezoned it R2 we lost about about 12 units because of the topography on it I thought it was just blip plop in the way that I remembered it from before so that's what I was asking the hard corner of 83 and Walt road is still C2 what are you planning on doing that are you going to chop it up or leave it in two separate uh plots like it is now or you what are you want to do with that prop if we resign the piece back to C2 it'll be one contiguous commercial parcel that'll be will develop something similar to the sun stop we did any other questions from Council yes sir so um what what about the most southern end of that 83 Frontage there is that uh going to remain uh residential yes that's already a part of the the do for the h town homes that's where the retention fund is the topography everything's all gravity down the road at the corner of Heather Lane in 83 yes that little piece right there yeah I'm not familiar with the um setbacks and what what have you really Chris and I talked about this earlier today I I just have one concern is that and if if our codes um allow this this is fine but I think it's something we need to consider in the future um from what I saw on here it's only a 20 foot buffer uh between the commercial property and the what Eastern side of the town home property is that is that correct yes that is correct yeah 20 ft is not a whole lot of difference between commercial space and and and town homes I don't know what they'll sell for but um I think it's something we might need to look at in the future if it's if it's in cement at this point our code allow that um that's all well and good um you know for for this particular project but um I wouldn't want to own a town home um and then after the fact commercial Enterprise be 20 feet from my back door uh from the back of that property but that's just that's just my my view on our future considerations for some of these developments residential commercial you know it's going to happen but um quality of life for people that invest in these town homes or or apartments or whatever is is important it to those people so just a consideration that I have about this not that I'm opposed to proving this if if everything is allowed by our current C yes sir you still Lo the other personals don't you okay all right and there setbacks off the residential and Commercial so it's not just 20 ft I'm sorry it's not just 20 ft there's 20 foot setback on each parel so I think it's 40 to 50 they both have setbacks they both have setbacks okay okay but also you know again my my my thing is along that Corridor I mean they're across the street from industrial um it was already C2 they've got heavy industrial or a large expansive industrial to the north um with sea along the road I mean it makes sense to have the sea along the road um again if they're going to develop all of it and it's all their parcel and they're going to make it unattractive they it's hurting them so it's in their interest to make it a good a good looking separation between the two in this particular case well the additional 20 feet makes makes the difference well all I saw was 20 feet I'm like that's that's not that's not a whole lot there is not only would the commercial side have to be buffered from the residential but the residential has to be buffered from the commercial so yeah you're you're combining those two buffers together right okay I know it's off topic but that housing there is that going to be low income or what kind of housing is that going to become the the town homes 148 town homes in the probably 250300 okay clay can we even contemplate future like that no I was I wasn't ask for would you say sorry what you say they were G be like 25050 any other discussion I'm good all right because none of the public was sworn in there's no public comment all those in favor say i i i n i i i is Carrie thank you very much the res do we have a motion for the resoning motion second a motion in a second any discussion on this one I mean it just makes sense there's no other I mean putting lower density residential along 331 just doesn't make sense oh yeah and then the the only little sliver right there is going to end up being a retention Bond yeah any other discussion again because none of the public was sworn in we don't have any public comment all those in favor say I I I nay I I eyes Carri Mr Aon do I need to do the reading please okay each of those y okay this is for the small scale Amendment this is an ordinance number to be determined it's an ordinance adopting a small scale land use map amendment of the city of the phac Springs Conference of plan changing the land use classifications repealing all ordinances and conflict here with providing for severability and conflicts providing for codification and providing for an effective date and then on the resigning okay this is an ordinance number to be determined it's an ordinance adopting a zoning map Amendment of the city of Pac Springs land velopment code changing the zoning designation repealing all ordinances and conflict herewith providing for severability and conflicts providing for codification and providing for an effective date all right and this will be brought back um at our next council meeting sound good thank you sir okay thank you we have been going for 90 minutes now would y'all be willing to take a uh five minute break 10 minute break yes please all right we will reconvene at 6:40 remember the mics are still on and we're live mics are still on live okay thank you iose okay last time we went live and we went on recess we had a t people just talking in the B yeah that's I had a let make natur new before not here but other places around the country absolutely absolutely it's easy for we go live now all these you know yeah what's going on with your new software oh so is it here is it up yeah are you using it yet yeah when are you gonna train us staff staff is using it already yeah um so the first phase is has already like you know been implemented which is pretty amazing I really like the software by the way I know the when when can we use it when can we put our stuff through so me and Jesse we're working phas two making sure that that that that software is plugged into our website where pretty much if it updates on the software update on the website as far as you know any agendas that get published officially on the software will get published on the website so that phase that's phase two of it and then phase three is plugging yall phase three is plugging you guys in officially but phase one as as know people go in staff members going in you know using the software adding what they need what kind of agendas they yes it's pretty awesome like I'm so happy that the previous clerk actually that's great really good she did you know helped it was amazing she did like a lot of the leg work so phase one wouldn't be like us using it as part of Staff you know providing you with what we want right now it's pretty right now you guys can just you know let me know but access to it you guys can actually I'm waiting to actually get all you guys on board [Music] officially I think all won't have to I've used it before in a different count I know you like I know you like to calls Emil but we just easier yeah but I'm happy made a lot easier what's the name of it again it's um agenda management am Ms the agenda management software but I I forgot what that second m stands for agenda management software this was C clerk yeah it's pretty amazing honestly I love it I'm like the residential expert on it too around here everyone always ask me about it and how to use it that's great guys it's going gooday bus I never sit still yeah especially that's when I know I live we missed the mayor tonight man I was GNA oh I was going to ask him something I need that reminds me I wonder if Jesse's back there yeah he is he noil really really friend's Alabama rapel will you look at that adding the mayor's email address to the web page please get on Salary thank you Raphael all right we will call the meeting back to order and we are at 4 B1 uh the code ordinance chapter 4 animals and foul I will say before Mr strong if you want to go ahead and come on up and he's coming up uh this particular ordinance was heavily debated at our meeting numerous numerous times Mr St worked very hard to align our ordinance with the County's ordinance and to give uh the city Marshall additional powers to uh to be able to enforce this so I I think it's I think it's a job well done it's good ordinance I think helps protect people from you know people having cows and pigs in the backyard but anyway chickens well you you can't have a rooster anymore but anyway Mr strong you want to kind of give us just a quick synopsis and then we can go from there um yes so the ordinances basically is a mization of Walton counties with some of ours um what we had previously added to it um if you go through you can see the definitions and the different ordinances also you have a um another sheet that was given to you basically showing where our ordines were and where they were changed and how they were changed um if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them anybody have any questions comments yes I just got one did was there ever contemplated during this process uh administrative fees for recouping some of the costs that uh staff would have for going out and responding to these calls no there was not on that part the um if you saw on the B back page there are fees but they will be actually be collected by the county um animal control and for that area which is the actually given to the county themselves because they're actually be doing the patrolling for us but none of so there would not be any City responses from uh dispatched units or code enforcement or the city police going out unless Chris just stumbles across an anal issue that he feels like he okay I think one of the examples I think one of the examples you had right was usually when you take an animal to the impound um I think WT County requireed Neal with be required to cover Sheriff's Office assume the sheriff's office will assume because once the animal control takes over the animal they're they're basically taking over everything okay I apologize but I just got this Redline version this right before this meeting and I'm wondering would the council be willing to table this until the next agenda red L just to give me time to go through it because I do have several questions or comments that that are just popping into my head in reference to it but I just I like to read things first and see what I if we can go through it while he's here I'm good with that because there are a few people here for that one there are one there's a few people here for this item I believe have you got any questions about I guess let's get a motion on the table so is there either a motion to proceed witholding first first reading or to proceed with maybe even continuing it those are two options is there a motion Mo like to make a mo oh sorry oh I'm sorry go ahead I'd just like to make a motion just that we could bring this back to our next regular scheduled meeting I just need time to digest it it has not been advertised yet so we are going to table it we wouldn't even so I have a motion to I have a second I'll second we can talk about it see if anyone has any comment okay on motion to take take correct correct so do we want to postpone it then based on the motion the second for discussion that's the motion um you know again you know it's a it's a large section so I understand uh wanting some extra time to review it um when did when did they go out did we just send out a different one now or did it not go out no um it went out on Friday and 1222 be the final copy that you guys received okay and unfortunately I had a seminar so I wasn't I didn't get my copy till this just right before this meeting oh okay um we have motions so we can hear comment in terms of whether people feel like we should continue on set yes sir well there's there's 12 changes on the red lines and I think some of those are just might be dele deletions possibly or just re uh let's see maybe a section number change so there's not that much if we wanted to uh to to go through each of those uh to to look at those tonight and and move forward with it they're they're pretty short changes actually my councilwoman I understand your your request um and and want to uh to be sensitive to that but at the same time as I stated earlier this this has been heavily reviewed and commented at at our level noticed numerous times um so I kind of would like to Echo the comments of the other council members and just say is this something that we can maybe try to work through uh here at the Das versus having a delay in another meeting the risk of being unpopular on this because I I do understand the desire and certainly I think both councilman value and Council beerbom understand I've sat through this at the con Lander view from an ordinate standpoint I feel like I probably need to say this there aren't that many changes councilman Harrison's correct what I do worry about just so we know if we do not table this we work through this at the dice and there is some discussion where all of these are not accepted as they are because these are substantial changes everything we have here is a substantial change from what's in our ordinance if we end up changing one of those again we're probably going to need to start over and come back for a new first reading because of that so I I would just be cautious that if there are going to be changes tonight we're going to have to continue this anyway so just do be mindful of that that's my only concern so is this some I'm sorry yes sir is is this something you feel like you probably read through and work out before the next um meeting if if you do have issues with the city manager and legal maybe if she gets Chris Kobe and myself we could certainly work through any of those changes and Mark it up in a document to make sure there's not an ordinance title change that will be required prior to going forward we could certainly do that if that works for everybody but what I would not want us to try to work through these changes and then there now be what's felt what feels like a minor change but requires us to restart the whole process that's the danger of doing all that tonight so what is the consensus do we want to move forward with the motion and table it to the next meeting or do we want to try to work through the changes so in which case you'd need to change the motion and we have a motion so um only the council will change at this point I'm okay with the L good with the I'm okay with accepting Clay's advice there um just right there's no other discussion I'll open up for public comment on the tabling of it to the next meeting so if you have comments on the actual ordinance itself then we would need for you to back at that meeting instead no I have comments on tabling it yes ma'am we will receive your comments on tabling okay so Michelle kit for the record got it um I'm gonna say this as nice as I can but this is why people don't like government y'all have been doing this for five years James five years for a very small change I have been on this over over a year following it because of a nuisance animal in my own 17t from my bed this is absolutely ridiculous that it is taking five years and y'all want to continue tabling it when you have citizens being harassed by nuisance animals I just don't understand this how long have you been working on this can I ask him that you need to direct your questions to chair Please Mr mayor can I um ask the man a question we're receiving public comment at this time this how long has the city been working on this well the code and lers Review Committee has been going on for approximately I would say two and a half years if I recall correctly and of of that I think we've been reviewing the animal ordinance for probably a little over a year y'all need to make a decision y'all need to quit tbling this this is getting ridiculous the county doesn't what to do the city doesn't know what to do you got um James back there on the Hurley in Conflict on what to do you've got him in Conflict on what to do can we just make a decision and move forward I don't know what good one week or two weeks is going to give y'all that much information because if you start back at the drawing board which y' should have already worked out several times then we're going back to another year of this and five years years is long enough long enough make a decision any other public comment Mr yes sir can we get Chief up Chief Earley will you come is only we're be talking about tabling of it starting getting into the topic on it that's going to be a different not like what you hear Chief how do you feel about the table uh tabling it we've tabled this thing for way too long uh to the point where we have gone over this ordinance I'm tired of going over it I I have completely put everything I can into it um to the point where me and Chris have probably got mad at each other because it's had so much people looking at it um to me tabling it's just kicking the can down the road another two weeks I I get it but I can assure you that the amount of thought and meeting with every entity that is involved whether it's Police Department code Wars Sheriff's Office County Commissioners we have gone over every scenario we can and this is about as good as product as you're going to get so you can either take my word for it or kick it down the road some more um but I don't I don't see too much to be changed with any of it's that's product we can bring in I I changed my view on on how I feel about the second no sir that was Mr Valley I would offer substitute motion i' I'd like to offer substitute motion to move forward and approve we still have Motion in a second yeah you can't you can't substitute a motion to table with a motion to approve you can do the opposite way how we going go by the up or down on table I mean you can substitute tabling with continuing some of those issues but you can't substitute it to defeat the purpose of the primary I I would I would not want to Cur the IR of of anyone especially if they're dealing with a frustrating situation but I you know again we can we can take another I mean it's been going on for a long time we can we can take another meeting let everyone get on the same page make sure everyone has a chance to review it and and then we can hopefully move forward quickly and easily uh the my only hope I would have or my only request would be to make sure that we get anything cleaned up or my only concern is that then we run into two meetings but I'm optimistic that the ordinance has been thoroughly vetted and and that we'll hopefully get a a clean review of it with with all due respect I just I've not seen it since I've been at the DI if if y'all have been working on this for a long time I apologize for the inconvenience but it being brought to me like the clerk said just Friday and then I had already had something prescheduled I don't like to vote on something that I've not had the opportunity to look at I may be all for everything that's in there but the mere fact that it came to me at 455 today you know because I had already had something prescheduled on Friday I apologize for the inconvenience but I do appreciate and I can withdraw my motion so that if if the other council members agree that they you know something else needs to be done I I so remove my you remove my hold on one second just I want everybody to be clear I just trying to do quick math for y'all um just so you know this cannot be adopted on the 23rd either way because of the 10day requirement it will not hit the paper this week at this point in time because of where it was added from the code review so the earliest advertising we get will be the 18th so if it goes on the 18th the earliest adoption is 10 days thereafter so no matter what we do this can't be adopted until October the 14th and if you were to hear it on October 30th you would not or if you were to hear on September 23rd you would be perfectly fine to still adopt on the 14th of October so whether you do first reading today or then it's not going to make one bit of difference so I'll leave that to you so before you withdraw your motion it's not like this adopted one bee faster your your adoption date is going to be the 14th of October all right any other public comment any other further discussion from the from the Das on the tabling all those in favor of tabling say I I nay I nay I I is carry so we will table this to the next meeting all right we have nothing on the request to be uh on the agenda we will open the floor up to Citizens comment if you would please state your name for the record you will have three minutes to make comments and there will be no rebuttal there will just be public comments yes ma'am yes my name name is Sarah Commander uh I come to you tonight um with a request I'll go back about 30 years ago or so the dbpa back then did most everything that was done in the downtown area and one of the things we did back then was plant a huge cedar tree well it was a little cedar tree at the time um across from the bank the clock well that cedar tree grew into a big cedar tree and we didn't do a whole lot of research on that tree so we were going to use it as a Christmas tree well you can't that particular tree that was there you couldn't cut the branches because it they wouldn't Branch back they would just be a stick sticking out so it became quite a nuisance and for years we did try to decorate it we put flowers around it uh and we took care of it well Robert Nelson got a be in his Bonnet that he wanted to replace that tree and if any of you knew Robert well let me tell you when he reached her something he researched it to the ninth degree he could tell you about every Cedar Tree in this country what they look like how they grew how their branches branched out he researched cedar trees and the city helped us uh the dbpa at that time by taking out that tree and and we bought and planted another one the one that is there now and we took care of it for a while well when Main Street first came in um the the first Main Street guy that managed it didn't really like dbpa being downtown so we kind of backed off and eventually gave the city that tree y'all have possession of the tree at the moment um and have been I guess taken care of I would like to propose to you that the dbpa and the City of defunc Springs and perhaps Main Street erect a plaque there kind of similar to the ones you have around the lake that have the instruction stuff on it and dedicate that spot in that tree to Robert Nelson because not only did he put his heart and soul into that tree he has put his heart and soul into this city and I think he would be tickled to death um if we uh erected a plaque and between all of us we could keep it clean and we'll be glad to help you know buy plants and put there and flowers but I would like to ask that that be done in memory of Robert Nelson thank you ma'am you I'll be willing to contribute to the cost of that thank you would we be doing it as a a City action to to bring It Forward I mean I'd be willing to bring It Forward if we're going to do the City action or are we going to do it simply U through Outreach I you know I don't know how much those whatever you could plaques or whatever around the lake how much they cost because y'all put them in I have no idea can't be up a whole bunch of money um yeah would it be perfect from M Commander I speaking then maybe if dbpa would like to provide to us an example what they' like to put there we could bring back to the C I think it's got to be something that's off the ground that's why I thought of those off the ground so people driving by or seeing it can see it rather we don't want it low to the ground um and I think the fence needs to see there to keep people from stopping because if we do put flowers there then um you know and we're willing to do that again I will say that working with Rachel um on a other projects in this that um she's a real joy to work with and she welcomes um the dbpa participation and you know and this kind of thing so I think that we would we would um you know do a good job but there again I don't know how much a PL would cost but we're more than willing my my board voted Thursday night um to do um to help pay for it if we have to pay for half or whatever um because say Robert was not only good to Main Street and he loved Main Street and and the punc but he was a valuable member um to the dvpa board at one time and did a lot for us so we want to do something to honor him all right if you'll just work with the city manager and he can bring something back at the next meeting and we can we can vote on it does that sound good that sounds wonderful thank you thank you thank you m Comm Commander yes ma'am if you will Stitch your name for the record Ki TCH um so so two things one I think y'all need to start charging event insurance for the Shaka building um you can't have a wedding without it I can assure you that did one this year any event type place like that I don't think we have the same concerns for the community center but that building else should be requiring whoever's renting it to provide it's not that expensive by the way unless you start adding like sparklers and some other things into it which are on the contract of that insurance the other thing is um if you're not prepared for a meeting could y'all please because I've sat here two hours for this animal issue for y'all to table it that's two hours of my time I'm not a city council member but I've sat here for two hours for something can he scroll that back just a little ways for me man we're just we'll receive your comment well somewhere at the top of that it says deletion or addition to so if you're not prepared for an item I'm appalled at all of you who voted to do this when you've had somebody sitting in the audience that's dealt with an animal issue that's had to go to the magistrate to deal with all of this and y'all table it for something that's been worked on whether you're ready or not you need to let us know prior to deletion we we put out whatever advertisement y'all had to have now it's getting delayed again and so I'm sorry but I'm appalled to anybody who wanted to continue this because it's not fair to the citizen thank you any other public comment seeing none we will close the floor for public comment clay do you have anything no sir all right we will go to 8 A1 councilman Valley thank you thank you everyone um so for quite some time we've we've had recurring uh items come up to the council about grants for a fire Tru and needs for equipment where we're we're always having to go out for Grants on the fire department because we really don't have a funding mechanism for it again this isn't something the generates Revenue it done pay for itself it's one of the services that the city decides and the citizens of the city have decided that we want but what we have to do is remember that we've got a lot of growth coming south of I 10 which is going to necessitate an expansion of our fire department to be able to serve all of our citizens the the big items that we currently have is we've been going out uh for Grants on our fire trucks for a few years these trucks used to be I think 200 then they were 400 well now these trucks are about $800,000 to to replace and to get a new one I don't know that we've got a spot in the budget that we're going to pull $800,000 or even do a lease uh where we're spending you know 60 or $70,000 a year uh to be doing that unless we just continue continue to pull money out of water and shift it over to pay for everything but what I'd like to propose is a conversation and again this isn't an immediate action what I want to do is have an opportunity where we can actually get lots of public input get feedback and ask people you know what what do they consider a reasonable amount of of of funding so that we can equip our fire department we asked these people to go out rush into Danger way but when we're doing that are we doing that in a way that they're they're protected do they have the equipment that they need to do those Services the fire trucks that we currently have don't have the height to be able to service the courthouse another historic structure that's in our community it's not the Hall of Brotherhood uh it's not the library you know it is a County facility but it is something that we we treasure and that we love having here um but we can't fully support that structure because of the height limitations on our trucks additionally our Firehouse we couldn't even park a truck that could service that facility in the fire station because they're not deep enough Bays to actually service that the other thing is the fire station itself let's talk about that fire station metal building built in 50s 50s 60s when that was built we didn't even have a wind uh and debris Zone in the State of Florida it would be another 30 years before that would be actually over 30 30 years before that would be implemented um now we do and what we do with fire stations is we actually build them to 20% above whatever the code is for the area why the reason that we build over the minimum requirements is because we are asking those people to stay in that building during a hurricane these firemen when they are performing duties their equipment has to be somewhere we have $1.6 million of replacement value fire truck sitting in a fire station built in the 50s or 60s that cannot handle the Winds of a major storm coming through town we're putting assets at risk and we're putting lives at risk and we're putting our ability to respond to the public at risk now we'd have agreements where we we will be working with Emergency Management and some of them will be housed at those facilities but our equipment not just going to sit outside under trees our equipment still has to be somewhere they have to have you know facilities they can utilize after a storm the only way that we can do those things is by having ongoing replacement costs and construction costs for the facilities and the equipments that our people need so at the end of day what this is really about is taking care of the people that take care of us one way that we do it is through equipment sending them out with the best equipment that we can reasonably afford responsibly afford but that keeps them safe when we are always having to do this with grants it's it it's not a good look it's not a good message mean at some point we've got to be able to commit to the things that we say that we want if we want it if it's a service that we value let's value it and there is dollar amounts that go with that so what I was actually looking at um is you know Argy and Liberty both these districts are special fire districts and both these Special Districts they have an assessment that they provide to the uh people that actually have structures so if you have vacant land you don't you don't pay a tax on for fire on vacant land I mean we're not going to you're not going to go rush out and respond to an emergency on a vacant parel for someone that's having a heart attack you don't go out and respond to a arrest I mean chief both Chiefs would probably say otherwise but you know with with some exceptions most of our responses are going to people in homes or commercial facilities libery and argal both have a separate fee structure they uh through the property appraiser the property appraiser identify a number of structures that are in within their area commercial and residential if you have a commercial structure you know for instance one is paying a 100 the other pays 75 uh for a structure the other I think one I think it's 200 for a commercial but I can't remember which one that was for if we were doing something like that uh based on some preliminary information that I had uh if we were going at the at the $100 for a residential structure uh that would be once a year it goes on your taxes uh and you were going at 250 for commercial structures and that's something that goes on a commercial property stru uh property taxes we'd be generating 363,000 approximately dollars annually what does that mean well that means that we could go lease a truck the day that we signed that that fee uh the chief wouldn't be waiting on grants anymore we can act uh now if you take that and you pay that over a lease period rather than buying it you could pay it off in three years if you want to be super expedient but it also makes sense to do set as sides on facilities that means you can replace a fire station probably in about uh it probably still take 10 years uh to replace a fire at current prices assuming that we have land that we're we're using and is not uh uh expensive to develop and that we're purchasing but what we haven't done is find a way to fund these things without indirectly taxing our citizens we've done it with water um we use other taxes to pay for things but our budgets are such that we can take care of things we have to a an extent but we haven't seen happening in our community with great success is Street lighting because it costs money and it takes time and resources we're trying but we it's hard because we don't have the money to just go do it sidewalks improve sidewalks curb Cuts milling and and all the other work that we need for Paving we're struggling to do those things how are we ever going to get to a point where we can provide them with the things that we know they're going to need not only because of the replacement of the things that we already have in place I would love it if there had been just even a small set aside since 1958 even if they're setting aside 10 grand by now we would had something but if you don't set something aside or if you don't have a funding mechanism how are we ever going to get there that's my opinion what I want is to be able to put the idea out there and seek feedback from the community and to be able to have this be part of our discussions going forward we may not figure it out with in our budget cycle but I'm hopeful that by the end of the year we will have enough opportunity to gain public input I want public input I want people to reach out I'll try to get surveys out I'll try to get uh ways to get Outreach and feedback but right now what I want to do is at least have the conversation so we can see how people feel about it is it too much is it too little how much does the chief need would he recommend 50 what do you recommend a 100 where's where's that at because the growth th of 10 is going to net State an expansion of the fire department and the police department I think they currently have $160,000 in Impact fees we can't use that clay what's the chance of us being able to spend 160,000 of impact fees based on current growth and Trends I mean not for a lot of what you spoke about we can't use these because it's an outdated model which we have to address as well in a separate on a different day but um that's impact fees aren't going to get us there I mean ,000 and then you have to wait for them to have you know a certain number of calls or require a different substation I mean $160,000 is going to build a substation south of I 10 to justify you know the use of impact fees um so again if we had that we can't do it with impact fees I want to propose at least the consideration of the public for another option and so the the things I'm asking for are are this um one I just want uh and I'll make this in the form of can I make this in the form of one long motion clay none of these are why don't you start with I'll work or not after you get it out all right so one thing and this may only require Direction one of the things I would like to uh request in the form of a motion is request for a legal opinion on whether or not we can establish a mstu or an msbu for funding police and I still and I want to include uh and and fire I'm focusing on fire but I I do also want to know if it's possibility to include police that's why it's a request for information because I think this would be part of a bigger uh conversation and discussion uh I would like to know the process for the establishment of these special tax districts and it's a tax I want to be clear it's a tax it's a tax for things we say we want but let's not try to sugarcoat it with msbu or special dist it's a tax uh I'd like to know our capacities to bond these things and probably get some additional information on that why because we might need that fire station sooner rather than later and if we Bond if we establish a revenue and it can be bonded we can begin sooner rather than waiting uh and then uh feedback from the Department in terms of uh and the staff and the city manager in terms of proper uh proper funding rates how much do we need the other item is residential property data we have we actually have this but um again verify and clarify uh from the property appraisers how many parcels and how many uh structures and then commercial same thing how many parcels and how many structures um there's some additional information in the item about what a special tax district is if you are in Liberty Aral you know what that is that's part of your motion um actually I'm sorry I'll stop there so I think everything he's asked for is broadly direct and I'll say that it's a broader question whether you can do an MSB or MS you that would require us working with the county if we go that far out and there may be a reason for that could be a non abor special assessment as more akin to what councilman Valley had asked I'll prep all this info up and be ready to present it it's probably a workshop where you're need to hear this um certainly um in terms of the financing elements of it I'd make sure we bring Bond counsil into a similar issue they actually worked on the same firm that did our bond counsil work has also helped us do the impact fee ordinances when we first did those so we could certainly make sure that Brian comes over and talks to us at a workshop that's General Direction let me work on getting somebody together I'll get with councilman Valley get with Kobe and try to figure out how we can bring this back because that's a pretty big ask so I don't think a motion's the right way well but how how about we just have a motion to establish a workshop to discuss the these options do do we want to do it as a workshop or do it as part of the budget process no we we can't do it this year either way this right unless you want to do it before September 15th get S days so why don't we just have a motion motion to have to hold a special Workshop to discuss funding of Workshop not meeting so don't call I'll make I'll make a I'll make a motion to schedule a workshop to discuss the fire department uh funding and fees please I'll include police yes as well okay I have a motion a second any further conversation from clay or from the Das on no we'll get it ready whenever youall said it I just want to say that um if you take the city's entire advel Orum budget in other words if you pay taxes in the city of Dunc Springs because you have a house or a commercial property and you take that blind that says City defunc Springs ADV valorum every dollar of that that we collect is 1357 million or at least it it was projected to be and that that's a yeah the Fire Department salaries alone just salaries is 1.6 million so we're $300,000 short if you just take all your property taxes we're short by that much so I just want people to understand why we're using other Revenue other taxes other fees other general fund items to pay for these things and that's that's part of the problem but I that's all I have to say do want oh no no no I've got a question go ahead I I'll Echo what councilman Valley said and it goes to what councilman Hein has a councilwoman hefin has said time and time again when we've been looking at some of those gaps and why these funds have to be transferred from one account into into another is because of this it's there's several departments that generate Revenue or funding to support their departments and then there's some that just can't I mean realistically we don't want police going out trying to charge uh speeding tickets or every time they arrest somebody Levy another fee to fund their entire agency it it would just never match up so we have to start looking at something like this in order to fund those areas to where we're not in the red any other comments one other thing too with this it all goes together with a much broader longer strategic plan as well just like our sewer plants and and trying to to lay out when those facilities are going to have to be replaced and or added in in addition to it but definitely think workshops there you good for now yeah we I think you know we just have to move forward with this I mean when you look at those numbers um and transferring funds to to fund it this is a vital service we have in this community it can't they have to be provided with what they need um and it's just that time and and nobody likes taxes or or discussions about that but these guys deserve to be protected they deserve to have what they need the equipment they need and our our our our community deserves to be able to uh know that they're capable of putting a fire out in a multi-story building uh if if that happens and and be safe in a hurricane uh staying in that current fire Bill I've never really thought about that but they sacrifice a lot for us I think we we have responsibility try to find ways to do this so Workshop would be great even if we put even if we put the team at the Emergency Operations Center the equipment's still there I mean we still have you know $1.6 million of equipment that we can't replace sitting in a building you know years old too and not was in great never in great shape I mean didn't it catch fire once or any when the police were still in there I mean history of that seem to do you have some questions so do you want are you want to set a separate one we earlier we talked about the streets would this take more precedent to to have this be our workshop for the October meeting is it too long to combine I would I would say it's too long we we need to have a separate meeting about this and we're going to be imposing my opinion is if we're going to be imposing what is effectively a new tax on the citizens of thec um we we need to have let's separate meeting and and multiple meetings because this is a subject that needs a lot of discussion well we're all here so we are going through the budget process is not gonna happen for October 1 so do we want to wait until after October one and first of November before we start having these conversations yes uh but I don't want to put it off too long corre um because I would I don't I don't want to get in a situation and I'll have another item that's similar I don't want to get a situation where we're you know it's you know January February and now we're in a hurry because otherwise we're not going to make the next budget cycle for announcements and and proper uh feedback time so I'd like to push ahead but um but it's fine we to get past this next Workshop all right so we have a motion of second any public comment yes ma'am please state your name for the record Michelle kitch um so I have an idea um the CRA i i attended a I guess it was their regular meeting here recently and they put up on these screens the where the money went that was interesting y'all should look at that um we built a fence for somebody and some other things and I get what the CRA is for and about but if we need a fire station and how much money do y'all give him them over a million dollars I just found fire station money so if you want to take care of the citizens which is your job in fire and police on water are probably our main resources that y'all are to provide us CRA is just not not the most important thing our fire station is thank you any other public comment all right seeing none all those in favor say I I I I I I I caring thank you that's all I thank you Mr Valley uh Mr Townsen okay keep it quick um staff has poured the concrete slab for the solar bench at forence Park I should hopefully have the installing that this week after that's done I'll be contacting all of you potentially for some sort of opening Park I know it's been Ed but I think it would be appropriate um and then the C joint Workshop will be set for September 25th at 4 o'clock R and I work tomorrow to get that agenda out I haven't determined yet where we're going to do it at there's a lot of people this isn't a very big room so I gotta figure out where we're gonna do it is that it that's it I did I did want to mention so I've been contacted I know um the council got a a a letter today or over the weekend from the friends of the library um I I had a conversation with uh with Mr Mark uh on Saturday about about his letter um I am going to contact Mr towns and about you know what the status is on some of the concerns that he raised you know I I told Mark this that I would be raising these same comments in the meeting and that is this while I understand that there is issues with our library it's one of many old structures that we have I told him just like I'm telling you guys now I don't know that I necessarily agree with the uh with the assessment that it is a dire situation when it comes to the library um we just to be completely Frank and honest in a previous session uh there were some issues that were brought up and then when we investigated them most of them were already either being worked on or being resolved at the time um you know in there he mentioned something about the electrical system he and I had a discussion about how there's a difference between you know something being unse safe and hey I want four outlets and I want four separate circuits and that's kind of what it sounded like was described there in the email was you know they wanted more circuits it's not necessarily that it's unsafe it's just that there's you know the example I gave him was in my room my house the the kitchen for the countertops has one circuit for all of the countertops nowadays you get three and four circuits I would love to have more than one circuit in in my kitchen so that when I run the microwave and I run the uh the coffee maker it doesn't pop a breaker that's that's something more of a want not necessarily A need um I do agree that we need to invest in our our structures here here you know the library is is a very important structure to this town along with the Hall of Brotherhood along with many other structures in in in the city and we need to be able to work on them and improve them I know that we invested in a grant to evaluate the foundation and that was worked on and there was some recommendations made out of it so long story short I think we do need to to look at the the library and be aware that there are some issues that are going to need to be addressed so just kind of keep that in mind I don't necessarily entirely agree with the assessment that it's dire and that we need to move it out and move it into a strip mall um they they have their opinion we can all each have our own opinion on that but I I do appreciate their work and their concern for it I don't want to dis disc credit that or discount that they they are working hard to preserve our our library and our heritage and I think that's a good thing so that's all I have councilwoman no um a question about the tobacco free parks has that been placed in the advertisement yeah it is for the second reading yeah um I just wanted to you know again um I'm glad that uh s Commander brought for the item regarding Robert Nelson he will be missed um he he like to poke the bear uh and like to uh but also like the spirited debate that ended in amicable amicable terms um and that's and that's something that we're missing these days the ability to disagree but still hey let's go sit down and and we'll chat or go have a beer uh afterwards I mean I like ARG so I I you know you get me arguing I'm happy I'm not in a bad mood uh but um but we enjoyed arguments but we also enjoyed agreeing and I I appreciate as as a a a person who is dedicated to the community and to the idea of community and of this place succeeding and prospering and uh I don't care what you believe as long as you believe that you're good with me all right thank you sir we are adjourned good night everybody good night good forget