##VIDEO ID:n0D5gzLDQ1g## saw a car down there by office okay yeah but that was 34 40 minutes ago 45 minutes all right I think yes we want to call this uh city council meeting to order this is Monday January the 13 2025 and uh I want to wish everybody a Happy New Year and if you stand with me we'll do the invocation pledge allegiance Heavenly Father we love you we thank you Lord for your love towards us God your care for us and God we just ask for your help tonight uh every person in this room we pray God for uh your spirit to be in control and Lord we just we we give this we offer Lord everything that we do up to you and your order and so father we ask for your blessings on this sta this uh this Council and it's in Jesus name we pray amen amen I PL aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right we're going to start with uh with entertaining a motion to approve the cons agenda as written or if there's anything needs to be pulled off please let us know at this time I'll make a motion to approve is written second I have motion second any questions and we are where I started okay start yes just make sure everybody yeah we got some folks in the back working on that just if you turn it up a little bit and everybody trying to get your mic it's a little bit closer maybe we do have a full house tonight all right you hear me now okay all right okay so we have a motion second all in favor starting with Mr Harrison say I I I I I I Carri thank you very much and if we will go ahead to the regular agenda uh are there any ads or deletions Mr C no all right we would entertain a motion to approve the regular agenda as written motion to approve the regular agenda as written second have a motion of a second any questions all in favor say I I I I all right I Carrie thank you very much now kind of as instruction I always give uh on our typical motions we after a after there been a motion and a second you know there is 's an opportunity for comment uh when we do the uh agenda we typically that's just here at the Das so from this point forward I will give you an opportunity um before we vote uh to to speak so keep that in mind and since a lot of people are not used to our meetings our comments are held to three minutes you would come to the podium state your name and if you're representing an organization state that as well uh we ask you let's you know not have 30 people saying the exact same thing we're trying to get the Council of the people here uh so uh and and then if you uh uh if we take part of your time if we're talking will we won't take those minutes off your three minutes so you have three minutes and um and that's pretty much it we'll we'll try and keep everything as decently in order as we can we're here to please this city and uh but we want to do it decently and in order okay all right we'll go to our city manager uh Mr towns on C1 on 3c1 thank you mayor so I'll keep the uh keep it brief on the incidences and then we'll go to what we think should correct some of these actions so over the last few months there's been two incidents of theft in the city one internally from an employee within the finance division uh second one was a theft of funds uh from Christmas Reflections after one night I believe it was on December 21st of 2024 uh the first one was over a couple months period of discrepancies within deposits individuals task making deposits to the bank uh there were time frames between those deposits that extended beyond what should be reasonable um and then there were a couple that never got put back and so roughly $7,800 um is missing from those deposits of that time since that employee has been terminated from the city we followed the proper protocol procedure to report that to the police department they did investigation the individual confessed to such actions since then the warrant has been signed by the state attorney's office and individual has been uh taken into custody as of Friday afternoon and so we'll wait State Attorney's office on further details concerning that incident secondly uh Christmas Reflections on December 21st the funds have been collected by staff has been has been handled throughout this entire year uh and the last two proceeding Christmas Reflections my knowledge I was brought to City Hall shortly thereafter an hour or so an individual entered the city hall over here on this outside door um they did have a key to enter through the door they didn't then entered the office in which the money and the equipment for Christmas was stored uh so the next day when staff got here to issue funds for the next people on Sunday night they realized money was missing have been reported to the PD staff went gave a statement and so since then we changed the procedure for handling that money until the end of Christmas Reflections which is now over PD is in investigation now and still working on that as well that was somewhere between $9,300 and 10,000 and so since then and moving forward we'll change the process for that um and in addition to both of these things you'll see attached to the agenda cash handling policy which is eight pages long um with details on standard and responsibilities of cash handling the requirements of the individual who do that departments and what they shall put in place to comply with such policy and so tonight we bring It Forward we ask for the council to look at it provide feedback on that policy the intention my intention was to bring it forth um let you review it have discussion if necessary bring it back for a final version at the next meeting um so that's where we're at that's what happened and um this is a policy before you comments goe um as a fraud examiner I actually you know discussed this with Kobe and I can still see some potential places where we can strengthen what's already before us so with his permission I called the Auditors we chatted some more and we would like to bring back um some additional language that would even make it further strengthened uh to help prevent this uh again in the future I've also talked to Chief Hurley and the police department works 24/7 so when Lake Fest comes around and all these functions that are outside of the city uh it used to be that the the police department if we'd give them a heads up would come and accompany the cash to where it's going and at uh the police department they have a safe so if it's not if it can't go directly from here to the bank to their Dropbox then the chief said we could use that so if it's okay I'll I would like to uh bring back some language for uh to include in this particular policy because policy is good it just it there's a few places where it could be strengthened I believe okay thank yeah yeah I telling her that some of the more probably the more primitive cash handling we do would be like at lak fist you know because we take cash right there on the spot and uh usually we have employees there but we also have volunteers that have been with us for a number of years but uh so we would probably I'd be kind of like the bottom of the barrel and then some of the issues a little bit more higher Echelon with our deposits but yeah I think that we we need to cover a wide spectrum of cash you know yes sir yes sir I've read through the policy it looks pretty good but I do have a question about Christmas Reflections I know we've used volunteer organizations to work the the booth and you know accept uh payments with people coming in so I might have overlooked it is there anything in there to handle you know how people that are not employed by the city are handling that amount of cash and how do we get it transported and and those sort of things there I I don't recall seeing it but I'm likely to have overlooked it if it is if it is in there but I know we've had different groups doing it in the past I don't know if we did this year or not we did have volunteers uh the intent of this is be the overall City policy the default and then within it there's Provisions for departments to create their own in accordance with this to strengthen so Christmas Reflections would have a separate cash handling process or procedures to go along with it and then same thing will Lake Fest there's certain departments here that don't handle cash right um so they would automatically default back to this and the provisions within it certain ones that may go above and beyond we would create those to comply with this okay um I I agree completely I mean you've got your your general orders or your policies and you got standard operating procedures that could be strengthened and Define I'm glad to see councilwoman Hein jumping in and offering help with this and um this is something we've I'm sure all of us spoken about over time I know I've had uh conversations with the chief last year at Chris Reflections times and off and on this year a couple of times about being concerned at the time of night that that that large amount of money going back and forth as well as the accountability of it I'm I'm appalled to see that our employees uh at least one of them's involved in in this one incident I'm glad to see that the process has taking place and I understand that um with an active investigation the other one can't be talked about at this point but I'm glad to see the actions that you're taking I'm comfortable with that I think we could probably move this forward uh as a comment recommendation request to the city manager rather than a motion yes yes I'm good with that and we will as my understanding under our insurance policy we do have Provisions for theft so we'll we will pursue those as appropriate for both cases all right there won't be a motion on this till our next meeting uh Kobe if you want to go ahead to uh 3c2 okay thank you mayor so uh as everyone's aware and um early to mid December some actions took place the Life Enrichment Center Senior Center the Life Enrichment Senior Center is a joint venture between the County city and Tri County my understanding it was all it was a city and county function at some point in the past Tri County was brought in to help assist the operations of the facility um so again some accidents took place um there's been discussion there's been uh questions and concerns about the center and the movement of it moving forward and so I'm here today to discuss whatever the council wishes to see um do we continue continue to elicit that the operation to try County support them in that or does the county or does the council wish to see um estimates brought back on what it would take for the city to operate such facility over the fiscal year and so that's what I'm here to do is to bring a solution to to whatever You' like to say go ahead Tom so um I for one would like to see this come back as a proposal and potential agreement uh with both uh Tri County and the county uh to make sure that all partners are are willing and comfortable with the shift I think that the Life Enrichment Center is uh a very important asset to the community um and a very valuable asset to the city of func Springs uh we have been wanting to improve funding uh that we were providing one way that we can do that is to put additional skin in the game and this is one way to do it without additional cash outlay at least not at the moment what I would like to understand is how much potentially if anything we have in terms of uh additional costs um because the truth is that the that the center has uh kind of been held back from potentially exploring additional funding resources uh including more expansive grant opportunities because of the the lack of Staff uh right now it's only one and a half essentially full-time employees the the addition of the support from the city in terms of an entire Grants Department that we have uh Liberty Partners we have wonderful assets in terms of our ability to reach out for outside funding and those haven't even been an opportunity that's really been explored uh not extensively and the I think this yes it's a problem but this is also a wonderful opportunity where we can actually bring in uh the resources to take it to the next level because what I've seen is a director that has uh engaged with the community brought a community of people together uh keeping the uh you know activity fun community at the Forefront and along with that we actually see a good amount of Public Service as part of the roles that they do uh they do backpack program packing for lunches whenever a need arises uh and they're asked to fulfill a role whether of some kind of volunteer work they do it small community items even just operation of a ham radio uh group that actually you know they welcome anyone to come in and and uh participate in that program again these are these are wonderful Outreach mechanisms and these are uh citizens that actually are finding a way to actively engage with our community I would love to see them have the opportunity to expand that uh community outreach and the resources the city could bring just in terms of Labor that we already have could be invaluable along with that you know the that director position which is so valuable because of the limited funding that they currently have it's really difficult for them to look forward to a future and a uh a uh repl not a replacement a uh um Kobe what do I always talk to you about succession plan a succession plan thank you sir you see I do talk to him about it all the time but having succession planning avoids situations where you have any kind of downtown like what we're seeing right now and right now what the center has is a situation where they've actually been unable to staff it for several days in a row because of illness with the one employee that is available so I think that the that there is urgency with this matter and I'd like to see it move quickly uh there could be potential cost and I would like to be aware of what that is but with that there's also huge upside in terms of additional flexibility I would love to see that succession planning possibly including some City staff that may be looking for different roles but don't want to leave the city there might be opportunities for some part-time uh roles over there as well um and maybe we need to step up a little more in what we're doing in terms of uh offsetting what the county does and possibly help with custodial again I don't want to overcommit I want to know what the ramifications are but you know even if there is even if it doubles the cost of where we're at right now even if it does more than that I would like the opportunity to pursue that because what we're getting out of that program far exceeds any contribution that we've made over the last 16 years which is under $400,000 you don't get this kind of participation this kind of involvement this kind of Outreach without with meager funding that we're able to provide um I think we can do better and I think U it would provide them some flexib ility and some some real wonderful opportunities going forward so I'd like to see that push ahead Mr may go ahead I agree with councilman Valley I would like to see the city manager bring back proposals on how we could um help out here what the funding opportunities are um what scin we can play in this game um this is an opportunity for us to pay back those who have paid in for us for all these years so uh it's obviously you a a huge group and um in membership here I've actually been over to the senior center a couple of times doing work in and out and seeing you guys uh playing wee bowling and doing line dancing and all and I was just thinking how great of a program that is to our seniors and to give back to them and let them be active and to um to collaborate one another to just communicate and and socialize you know it keeps you active keeps you healthy and just see a smile on your faces make us happy as you so I agree completely I want to say I'll give you word in just minute I had uh kind of reached out because I knew that n Fort Walton and CR you had senior centers that operated by the cities uh and uh when I spoke to the people over at cresview they like they admire what goes on in the punc so much that they want to mimic some of what happens here that's a city three or four times our side you know and uh and so and of course you know I you I've been a little bit mix involved over the years but that last little program y'all did out there at Community Center I'm GNA tell you what that was impressive and uh I sure wish the judge had come out here and dance for us a little bit but uh but uh you know I'm telling you what it's it's an awesome program I've been hearing this for quite some time and so I agree with these guys I I think that I'm hoping that we can you know we got we got to work with the county and TR and and and Tri County um because you know they're very much involved the county has been very generous in helping the center and we hope that continues and uh so anyway we'll have those conversations uh we let the Le rest of the council weigh in on it but um I I'm very thankful for what you guys have done and hopefully we can not just continue but to improve go ahead did you want to say something sure sure um there there's no question the value in in the enrichment center for this town um and you all sitting here is is is evidence of that um I was always raised to respect my elders but now I look at myself in the mirror and I go I'm an elder so uh I understand the importance of this um and we we will find a solution uh to keep this thing going somehow um and and and improve it and make it better um I think I think it's worthwhile you guys correct me if I'm wrong over 400 members or so is that correct and um you know you have roughly 60 or so signatures on this petition so the interest is there the hard is there I don't I don't think you're going to find any difference up here uh probably we we all realize the importance of it and it's just going to take as young people would say it's going to take a minute right for us to figure this out and move forward so um that that's where I am and there you go thank you good and I'd like to share that for the past few years my husband and I are actually members of uh the senior enrichment center and I was gathering some facts and I was a little perplexed that we have 15-year employee who's done an excellent job in everything that she does at the senior center and I think she's been harshly penalized because of a flaw in a process where a specimen was dropped on the floor I mean to my knowledge there's never been any disciplinary actions or anything against this particular employee for 15 years and I would really uh also like for Mr Townson to be able to maybe ask the director would they reconsider their decision and in the interim regardless of what happens and what comes back I think they should reinstate her uh if at all possible I don't think she should be penalized for a a third party uh mistake and I I just think that's you know something that maybe could be corrected right away uh regardless of what happens at the the next meeting so I would like to see that uh perhaps maybe could you also petition and ask them in light of this was a flaw that was beyond her control uh would they reconsider yeah and reinstate her to that position mayor have yeah go ahead to add on to that so there's in addition to that there's uh if not possible uh the alternative would at least to be to have an interim director the I mean there is another part-time employee if they at least had the role of interim director we could actually begin to have some of the Outreach that's missing and and and Susan's here so she can speak for herself uh on this matter but uh having an interim title at least would allow the release of of the email so that they could actually have conversations and do some of the Outreach what's happening is there's there ARP uh sign up dates are coming up there's other events that are coming up and it's not the words not getting out because no one has access to the email at the moment I think we can very reasonably ask for for that at least um but I would prefer to see uh the change to where we could actually have the director back but if it's not possible because of regulations which is what we're trying to get around uh and fix uh at least have an inter room so that we can at least get messaging out yeah and I have spoken with Mr Paul and uh and he's just he's just trying to stay within bounds of the policy that he's been given I know it's a it's it's tough It's strict very strict and he is here by the way uh I don't want to put him on the spot um but yeah but anyway uh Joel will you mind coming to the podium there he is and uh and course the kind of the question that's been raised was there anything could be done temporarily to keep her engaged if if we do make a transition from we've made the offer to allow Susan to volunteer he you uh We've made the offer to allow Susan to volunteer but uh we have a process to go through to advertise interview and hire and we stopped that process because as we're hearing that the city may be interested in taking this over I doubt we'll find anybody that's going to come to work for us for three weeks or a month or short notice yeah uh the same time the uh halftime employee is only 20 hours a week right and we'd have to have a discussion to see if she's capable of uh taking some of that responsibility okay for the time being okay all right so well I guess uh be prepared to talk to you and to the county uh and of course we're talking tonight so I think that we're getting a consensus here we probably vote to have him move forward with that information gathering and but maybe two weeks before we can make a vote we can always have a special meeting but uh that's what we're I guess right now I'm asking you about is what can we do for the next two weeks well again we'll staff at De yes we can but we're probably not going to go through a hiring process if we see there's a momentum to uh uh take us you know out of the loop and we're fine with that you know we don't profit off this place we've I still say TR County's done an exceptional job for the last since' 08 Susan's done a great job staff and the volunteers do awesome however things happen yeah and we're we're here where we are yeah and uh if if there's not any options uh to place her back in that position right then we'd be willing to give it up and let somebody up front it okay all right um go ahead Clay is there anything that we can do from your perspective to see if they can reinstate her I mean I don't know what rule their their policies not ours right is they're adopted policies we don't advise them we don't direct to them so comes down to their comfort level with those policies and what discretion they have certainly from the city's perspective I think it's made being made very clear tonight that the city's contributions funding and support of the senior center and the current agreement that is entered into a Tri County that goes through October one it's an annual agreement is certainly not in jeopardy if they take the steps to bring her back um we're not going to look at them choosing to act in good faith and um go against whatever those policies are in an impunity manner so I think that's what we're saying I think that's the most we can say tonight what their policies are are their adopted policy I understand he has track County's got a lot of other contracts besides just this one that they have to live within so I will defer to who advises them I'm not their attorney I don't provide them legal counsel but certainly I know Mr Townson and I deal with HR issues in the city and we have policies for a reason we always seek to honor the spirit of the policy and try not to allow the plain wording of a policy if a technicality would work an unjust outcome to control over what the spirit of that policy is sometimes means the letter of the law does not get applied or that you have to look at each case on a case-by Case basis but I'll defer to them on what they can and can't do but I think the council's made it very clear they're not going to penalize you if you take action contrary to what the plan wording of that policy was whether someone else will we can't speak there's an assumption that when we entered into the agreement with the county and the city that y'all hold us accountable fiscally but also for federal state and local laws and uh I'm also bound under confidentiality to not discuss it or I could lose my job so I just hope everybody would respect that in re okay so would you maybe describe Define a motion that would May a question for I think direction is what you got right now and I would request we leave it at Direction because we have another partner that's not in the room and that is the board of County Commissioners Mr Townson needs to get with this counterart over there Mr Sunday needs to talk about because it's their building the end of the day it is their building if I don't know what conversations they're having on this issue but if they're having conversations that go contrary to this we need to make sure we're on the same page let Mr Townson work up the internal side of things from a financial side bring this back to the council let them work with the county and see what the opportunity to work together and I and I would add if if the opportunity for a revision to theou is is possible to bring back at the same time I'd love to see that uh and go ahead and get that ball rolling if it's at all possible that's exactly how we will approach it thank you can we look at two weeks yeah mayor correction to we'll bring that back I bring back two weeks have meetings with Mr Paul and the county thank you Mr Paul and bring that back for y'all to review and look at um clay um does the agreement does agreement with the interl agreement restrict us to only providing services or funds in the amount of 30,000 or could the city provide assistance uh to Tri County in the interum the interlocal specifies what we will do not what we can do so we can choose to do more I say that to say this if the if there are certain things that are coming up at the senior center between now and the time we figure this out that are a necessity for the individuals who use the center I think we could maybe find staff to dedicate some time to to assist and make sure those things are completed so nothing falls to the cracks I we work with Mr Paul and whoever the individual is at the Senor at the time but it's up to the council I I completely support that because again February this beginning of the year is very difficult for every every business owner and every operator you have a lot of events coming up you have a lot of uh re-registration or signing back up for your renewals on different programs insurance policies Health policies I mean there's a lot of things in the center helps with a lot of things uh and it also acts as a resource for just internet access for some people so again having someone that can be there to reach out through the existing system to communicate what's coming up and what they need to know to be involved is very important you don't build up this many people without a lot of communication and that lack of communication will erode that and I don't want to see that happen in this as we slog through this okay all right you feel like you got adequate Direction yes sir all right I guess we're not going to do a motion I think it the I think you guys can understand where we're heading with this and it looks like uh in two weeks we're going to come back hopefully with a plan that's solid enough that we can make a decision and uh I think you know the desire of the city council but we got to have agreement with our County Commission and uh and plus also with Tri County you know if they they may be just willing to step aside but anyway we need their agreement in this as well and uh we'll bring this back and and try to get the a solid plan working in in a couple of weeks and yeah may I think there's some notification requirements which might have dates associated with them like a 60-day notification I believe is for one of them termination of the agreement but I don't think that's where we're at I think there's more of seeking modification don't see the city trying to pull out of this okay uh that would be preferable uh if there's a modification that needs to happen if they could wave the time frame to shorten it that would be great if there's any uh anything that would slow it down modification would not require that it's the cancellation that you're referring to all right good deal thank you and usually modify on two meetings ours and theirs okay and then mayor i' would also recommend that uh if it's acceptable to every wonder if if Kobe could speak to miss Balo to see of any additional uh support or resources or or guidance that she can provide or that he can provide I would be uh I would be happy for that to happen again I I look to you all for for guidance and whether you feel comfortable with that I agree yeah well I think he intends to do that we I did speak to him earlier but um but anyway yeah and the county has picked up pretty much everything I think got a certain level of membership dues that y'all can use and then uh uh and we we pay 30,000 I think the county pays 30 and then a quite a bit more with utilities um a lot of the maintenance and probably gas in your vehicle and a few other things insurances yeah Insurance yeah they there's a they just got a a new van so they'll be good for transportation for quite a long time they pay for the buses too in their budgets I mean and the cust bus drivers yeah so the County's been a good partner and the uh and and Tri County has been a good partner and I don't want this to be seen as a as a a negative or a slight on them right I I value the cooperation this is an excellent example of what can happen with cooperation but I see this as a wonderful opportunity to get more resources in there and provide additional administrative support which I think we can do I feel conf confident that we can do uh without any significant additional cost to us because we already have the people in place okay all right if you'll bring that back to us yes sir off coms please come ahead I'm not going open the whole floor up JB's kind of been circling the wagon so go ahead JB Hillard from thec uh I appreciate when y'all speak into the microphones it it works but you want you wander away so uh the people in the back are still having trouble uh I have a copy of the agreement here and uh most of you have probably read it and it calls for a 60-day notice by either any party any party can can uh uh step away from this agreement I always looked at Tri County as a contractor uh that might not be exactly U correct they're actually an equal partner the way the agreement is drawn up but nevertheless uh e any party can walk away from the contract no doubt that this uh uh system is going to require county Support yeah and uh and the support from each agency is spelled out in the contract and uh one thing that that U Mr Valley mentioned was the communications it's absolutely critical that somebody in in that Facility have access to the email account which the county controls they have the say right now Tri County will not allow uh Susan or anyone else access to the computer system there's no Communications available to the membership of almost 400 people and that needs to be corrected tomorrow so somebody can get on there and communicate what's going on and whether it's the city employees authorized or County employees but somebody needs to be uh aware and cognizant of what's going on and communicate that with the people and I I told the people today at the pot luck um that not to expect too much tonight uh this is how government works a lot of these people have never been to a meeting before and they don't they're not understanding what's happening but it's not unusual for something like this as important as it is uh for government to have to step back because you got got three Partners obviously you can't do anything tonight that's going to be a definitive without consulting there's a lot can be done Uh u under city government that can't be done under Tri Count's uh way they operate the rules and regulations are are broadly different uh such as fundraising and things like that couldn't do that uh at TR County uh grants that Tony mentioned that's very very difficult because the way they operate way they set up no follow their own it's just the way they have to operate there's no question that it would be a better run operation as a department of of if UNC or the county um I was looking at the nice bille budget recently they have a s senen there had for years their budget is $430,000 a year to run the uh uh senior centor nville so they they're very serious about their seniors so we appreciate what you all of you have done for the past 16 years or so and uh it's I will say this the center is what it is today because of the direct leadership at the center and the volunteers that has been supporting that center it's being run right now with volunteers that's not good so y'all do need to get with the county and Tri County and work this out and put it on the fast track thank you I appreciate it thank you is the communication with that email account I I don't know everything about it but is that something to where the um can't hear you oh I apologize I thought I had it up there the the communication with that email account if it's a domain that's that's the county maintains for them is this something to where Tri County could communicate using that account Mr whether it's Mr Paul or somebody else I don't so so right now because it is you know technically a termination the the that access has been closed so they do have to reestablish a new account operator someone to hold the password and the access so that they can do it um since they don't have a full-time employee they've been holding off on that so we obviously yes it's very easy to fix uh but we have to see what their policies are and why it's being restricted that's why my suggestion was let the part-time employee assume the role there are already an employee that should Bean no issue let them at least open up the communication so that that information can get out I agree okay all right all right I'm not going to try and get that answered right now but I think that that'll be something we can probably work out tomorrow uh I feel real comfortable that all right we're going to uh we're going to move on since there was not a motion I want to thank everybody that came out trust me your presence has made a big difference here tonight and uh uh we will keep you a breast as as we progress and we'll let you know uh well in advance what will be on the agenda at our next regular meeting and I doubt we'll do a special meeting but if we do we'll make sure we get the word out to everybody okay yes ma'am I just got a quick question does this same group need to be at the next County Commission meeting I don't think so we're gonna he's gonna have a a meeting you know with the administrator and uh and they will you know I mean it wouldn't hurt some of you to show up because they will probably have to get a consensus at the next commission meeting which is win tomorrow I'll have I have to have a meeting with the County Administrator about this and we would not take this before the BCC until we had received a consensus approval from this Council to ask for that so unless the county has different a different vision of what's going to happen than we do when I have that meeting with him I highly doubt it go before the BCC unless we take it to them but I don't want to speak for the BCC but that's how I see it playing out I think because of the communic that's going to be happening between the city and this Balo in particular uh I think you will find out what's happening as it's happening and know when you have to be somewhere um definitely be here uh next one I believe unless we're just getting slow walked uh but I don't expect that so I expect next meeting here would be an important one to be at and I think the following day might be the meeting at the county to be at because they they follow the next day y'all heard that yeah we we'll let you know Kobe is going to He he'll keep me and the counseling in touch as to what happens next and so if there is going to be a decision to make at the commission level then we'll get the word out well in advance Mr Mayor you have someone in the back of the room I'm sorry all right one last one last one on this senior citizen go ahead this Loop of communication say again how do we get into this Loop of communication Mr Hiller uh through Susan right now we can uh I don't guess we would put anything on the website we can we'll establish an effective source of communication tomorrow I guarantee you that go ahead you know Tri County has agreed to allow me to volunteer um so I will be at the center every day this is my passion um I I just I I I want to take one minute just to say this right here and then I'm probably going to cry and go home you know so what I want to say is is what you see behind me is what love and loyalty looks like I'm not sure if anyone else in this room can truly say that they love and care about over 300 senior citizens who have become family but I can and I can tell you all their names I can tell you every one of their names plus the ones that are not here we are a team we're our very own Community we Inspire one each we Inspire one another every sing day to live life to its fullest We Stand Together in good times and in bad whether I'm employed there whether I am not employed there I'm gonna be there I'm G to be there I wish I had access to the computer systems and emails we have an abundance of activities that are coming up in February that they have no clue is are even happening there's some surprises for them so um I can't remember what really brought me up here well so I will be the communication I will keep them in as best I can I am communicating with some of them through my own personal email but I am I am a member of the senior center now and I an actual member I got first in line at the potluck today for the first time in 15 years and I will be there okay I just want to be able to plan senior citizen 2025 wait till you see what I have planned for the judge yeah better than last see that thank you um thank you all right we GNA move on because we have got a big agenda tonight mayor do we want to take five minutes if any of these people would like to clear out yeah all right we're going to take a five minute recess what your cup what is cup you got a me I can make me a any I know I'll see you Bob can see again get don't I don't knowwhere any good which one no no no it's I am free and cold it's like he turned up the heat or not when you got you warm you up I know I had to go with that oh my God yeah they they gave me two sets yeah let T mine another one yeah oh I'll take your extra one may let me see where it starts yeah that's itel all right here we go all right we want to call this uh city council meeting back to order uh we are going to be moving to 3C three the city hall property uh Mr Kobe going to get us started on that thank you mayor since uh since our last meeting uh you all know that CCB Bank terminated the agreement for the purchase of Old City Hall the earnest money in the amount of $25,000 has been returned to the bank um myself City attorney agrees to such uh since then and the reason for bringing this item back was to get direction from the council discussion on the future of the property uh in the intermediate the mayor had brought forth an individual and him and I met with them uh discuss the property and so we have received an offer of a very similar uh for 1.875 million a $20,000 earnest deposit and a due diligence period of 180 days and so uh you know we're just looking for a discussion Direction on the property and you do have the offer before you for consideration as it's included in the agenda Mr Mayor is there anything legally preventing us from entertaining this offer from them at this point there's nothing legally preventing you from entertaining this offer at this point if you're referring to the issues that came up with CCB specifically no there are not um before you do approve it I do have a few comments about it if this is something the council wish to do about the terms but I have no legal objection to the form of the document presented to you yes sir what are your concerns there Mr tinson while it says we can mutually agree to a different location I don't think the city wants to drive to Montgomery Alabama to do a closing probably just need to clarify it they can come here and close it's a Florida closing uh I would always tell the council to consider that um they look at what the costs are um they're saying that we'll be responsible for the cost of preparation deed that's pretty straight forward and simple um in terms of being responsible for closing costs they're usually a little more detailed than what is listed there but as long as all we're paying is the cost of preparation of D that's fine but I think we need to make that clear that we have no other closing cost that we would bear but I would imagine they're going to say with it being written as vague as this when the time comes they're going to say well you're the seller you owe the dock stamps typically who does pay dock stamps however we are tax exempt therefore they are responsible but you wouldn't believe how many times we have to convince people that no we actually don't ever pay doc stamps you have to pay them and we can't agree to pay them so that's just a minor clarification we would want to cover on the front end with them uh the biggest issue that I would probably call to your attention is something I don't think the council's ever agreed to in the past is paragraph 17 in which it indicates that there is a developers realy LLC is the broker of this transaction and that the seller that is us is obligated to pay 5% at Clos them not sure that we've ever agreed to pay a broker's commission especially if it is their broker but that's your discretion you're welcome to do so but we would be paying that out of our proceeds not on top of so those are the biggest issues I have to call to your attention that seem to be a little different from things we've done before um I do not have concern we sometimes do have this question about tax deferred exchanges or otherwise people refer to as 1031 exchanges um it talks about what we'll do to execute those documents just because we're a governmental entity it does not make it any harder for us to do that there's some additional compliance measures the 1031 agent will have to go through with us than they would a non-governmental unit but that's okay we can do it so that's not something I've had that issue raised with another government before well you can't be involved in 1031 we can't 1031 property in terms of selling and flipping it but because we don't have a tax basis but they can if there's an interest but that is um to this council's discretion we do have until February 3rd accept or reject so you technically have one more meeting between now and then so would it be more appropriate to see if um Mr Townsen can reach out to him and and see if we could work these issues outad time bring back to us if those are if those are issues the council is interested in pursuing I think those would be things to discuss um with them but obviously it's the council's cough the council's fine with all that I approved is the legal form so I'm not telling you you can't sign I'm just saying those are things I want to call to your attention similarly I would note in the escrow agreement while I do not expect us to get into a fight over the escrow money we would be required to litigate in the state of Alabama and that is contrary to what we've always done I do believe the contract itself controls over that and creates an inconsistency that would cause it to have to come to Florida either way but there's no reason to not just go aad and mention that to them I imagine they just didn't update their boiler plate well Mr Parker mount here uh Parker if you don't mind if you come up the question I have do you have any discretion on the matters that he has raised if we try to come to terms well as far as a closing location that really doesn't matter to me because as I'm sure the attorney's well aware of all that's done by wire transfer and overnight so yeah we don't have to be in the same room I could really care less if it's here Montgomery or not um on the dock stamps I understand what you're saying we'll pay the dock stamps okay get that on the record um on the what did you have broker's fee the broker fee yes sir that's the way we set up because you know quite frankly that's the way myself makes a living putting things together um I'm up for discussion on that I reduced it down and I'll also remind Council this is the third time that we have tried to purchase this property it's the second time personally that I've been here the first time which was I'm gonna say 14 months ago I really didn't get the consideration of telling me anything from anybody so I appreciate very much that this time you've brought it up these are your con concerns so I will uh I'll have discussion with you now mayor about the commission or whatever you like probably the biggest concern U I'm not heard from the other council members that uh is this something we want to negotiate or just trying to eliminate completely or what do we want to do Council uh well negotiating it basically is just reducing that out of the out of the price so I mean it's matter whether you want to reduce the sales price by 5% I'm just trying to get to where we get in terms to whether or not we can uh come to some sort of agreement if he's got that type of discretion I don't know why we need to regroup do this again week or two down the road I think we I think we got the ability to do it right now you know if if we're interested in in selling the property which I hope we are man I'd like to have that other side of the conversation I would like to discuss when appropriate y speak into your microphone yes I'd like to discuss uh the possibility of what could we use it for if we kept the property because I know that we're running out of room here uh and that property is right next door so if we one day wanted to build a huge complex it would be to our advantage to keep that piece of property uh next door I know I for the first time went to the building in front of us I don't know what that's called the building in what do you call thatby but we don't we don't use it and I went in to see you know what would be the possibility of it being renovated and using it for something to either rent it out as space or but there's a lot of problems in that building next door and now I hear we're having a few problems here as well um so I would like to have that discussion with all of us may go ahead so um with the old Timber building uh we we had discussed that being a partnership with the CRA at one point it's complex but it's possible we've also discussed that being I think we we love a lot of people love the idea of it being the chambers for for these meetings and freeing up this space for for the rest of Staff but um my position is that we purchase this larger parcel which includes a lot of Road Fage on 90 uh which is got three Warehouse buildings that we're probably going to either update and replace and we have enough on those property already to do a new fire department you know upgrade the police station expand City Hall and still build a second phase of all of those in the future we got a pretty big partial here what we're trying to do is offset the cost of this purchase so I'm a little concerned about Prime real estate being tied up especially when you get the tax value on it in terms of putting it back into the public use so I I understand um that is an asset um we've got a we've got a pretty big asset over here so I'd be in favor of going ahead and selling it if the opportunity uh is here and uh is fair and reasonable now with the I believe is my math right is it 93750 for the 5% commission so we're basically reducing you know the $1,875 th000 and reducing it by 93,000 um which puts it you know somewhere in the 17 you know 178 179 something so is that right correct I mean I exact math I'm just looking at it quickly so I mean that's what we're really talking about if there's a 5% 1,781 250 so that's what we're talking about difference of we and that point I I would rather not set the precedent and just reduce the amount to be honest but that's a different discussion but again I the the councilwoman put a question to the rest of the council and so I'd like to hear from everyone else on that before we talk about this other portion well I going say because I have been engaged in this property sale for about uh since 2013 uh the um you know just the you I think about what we get the residue we get you know once it's been sold first of when we sell it we're going to quit burning up a bunch of Maintenance Power and Water God knows what else that we have to pay over there every single month uh it's bringing us zero income uh there's no taxes no property taxes uh and it is a Nur uh that's our Old City Hall but it's an Nur and uh and it's going to get bigger isore every single month uh unless you want to spend tens of thousands of more dollars on it to keep it pretty uh but anyway and you know with it being sold not only you're going to get the tax property tax but you're going to get water and sewer and probably gas um that probably big enough for two or three businesses uh which would be substantial income for us every single month rather than us burning a whole bunch of income every single month so uh yeah I I wanted to see a much bigger price on it but things have changed that have uh he's not the only one that's come in with a a much lower proposal than what we did a few years ago but there's a reason for that and a lot of it has to do with the cost of money so uh I think they'll put a good product on there and um and it will be very advantageous to us and it I believe it'll be an attractive facilities that they put on that corner yes ma'am Kobe have we explored renting that piece of property somebody ever since I've been up here I think it's been under uh I think we've had an agreement with the bank so that we probably couldn't so I don't know if that's been looked at no it hasn't but I mean it's a if that's something y'all wishing to see then we would go and look at that what it would take to do ground leases on the property when we were still we still retain ownership so it would be a ground lease or a lease of facility but that that's something you're looking for but that's totally up to all of you I just would like to have that conversation and I'd also like to know how much it really is costing is the mayor accurate on that we're spending thousands of dollars next door we still main we still maintain the grounds and ensure the sewer and the water lines on are still and those are things those are responsibilities that would be given to a new property owner yeah we do still maintain the grounds well maintain and I mean that's we're going to do that anyways but are we paying for Water and Electric and util other utilities next door only as they're used for whatever we may be doing over there to maintain the facilities there's no one in the buildings but mean The Bu lights you want to drive by there right now you'll see lights all over that thing burning outside or outside outside and and and power is on the inside and there's certain things that do run on and off uh they're try AC runs to trying to keep humidity out of there so they're letting AC run trust me it's not burning up tens of thousands of dollars every month I just say that we're losing that kind of money but not that somebody else well and that's a consideration I'm just a numbers person so I'd like to know what those values equate to on a routine basis but I'd also like to know uh what type of rental property it might become for us in the interim to to satisfy the need for offsetting some of the uh other items that we're wanting to do I just don't think that lump sum's going to go very quickly with you know you you you had mentioned a a list of array of things and I think it'll get eaten up quite rapidly to be honest with you I don't want to see the price reduced if if it is negotiated what were the maintenance costs on those facilities before when we were looking at because I assume if we're going to lease the if we lease the facilities out we would have to maintain the air conditioning the the grounds the the facility what it and when I first got here it seems like every turn we were making we were have to re invest monies at the end of the day we'll do whatever the f the five of you want to do in the mayor I I would not recommend we lease the existing facilities and be a maintenance you know be a um Property Management I don't think we had the capacity for that nor do we want to take the liability of such um so to me if you g if there's any option to do that it would be from a ground lease perspective if someone comes in takes a Terrace bilding down or does their own rehab and we lease from that perspective they take full responsibility but again if youall want us to look at that option to become a rental to manage those properties can do that I just don't know if that's the best interest of the city at this time Mr may go ahead but with any ground leas we'd have to make the site ready for use I mean we'd have a million dollars in the ground just moving dirt around to create access entries parking pad Prep New utility locations I mean we're talking about instead of getting money in we're putting substantial money out yes with a long-term recoup but right now we're working off of a low interest loan that we want to leverage that low interest loan so that we have a cash inand option to do current work at that lower rate rather than borrowing at a current rate to do a pad to then get a return in 15 to 30 years so I I appreciate appreciate what you're looking at and I do get it I think that parcel being as Prime as it is is is the concern and also with the complexity of that site uh I mean it's what are they going to put on there it it right now it be at eight $1,800,000 essentially of property value that's like 6,000 that comes to the city annually just if it was valued at that rate even reduced from there of course uh so we're talking about instead of just getting that amount well the CRA getting that amount no off Josh but instead of getting that amount um having a big outlay at a current interest rate so if it wasn't for the current interest rates I I would be much more receptive to that but I have some concerns especially because of the current interest rates now something at the airport we're talking about things where we're actually getting outside funding that's not the same so if we look at it in terms of what we're doing at the airport that's that's a completely different model than pure real estate development on a complex site so that that's why I just I think the site makes it hard and the way we would fund it makes it hard and another thing one of the reasons we moved out of there is it's not ADA Compliant take a great deal of money to convert that building into ADA Compliant and I'm talking about the Old City Hall the other building is I believe even older uh City Hall was built or finished in ' 67 uh so we're talking about some very old buildings they've got substantial problems uh you know we had bags over journals and everything else before we moved out of there there is a lot of money to be spent to bring that building up speed and then you're going to have to get 8 ba compliant uh you know it's to me it's it's a it's a big over undertaking but I you know Amy probably hasn't heard all this you know but uh it is um and and then of course you know I'm sitting there thinking this is the main corner of our city and we're going to leave them old building sitting there you know it's just well I don't think that's what she was proposing councilwoman defer to you but I I think leasing the facilities U I think e leasing or ground leasing so a couple things been mentioned but I think the way that a developer is going to maximize the value of the property is to build it to its fullest potential which again that's a that's a that's a big move however the location does warrant it for that kind of development but for for a city to do that I think uh I think that won't be tough especially when we're using it basically the sale as a reimbursement of a low interest rate loan that we can then allocate as we need to to kind of maximize the value of that past interest rate okay um you know to me you know other people have different opinions but I think this is the prime piece of property in our city um everybody that everyone drives by it every day Travelers drive by it so it matters what's going to be there um on that piece of property um I don't know if you're at liberty to say what that might be uh at this point but um it is important to me and a lot of people in this town what ends up being there um I hope it's not a gas station or convenience store uh or anything like that but but but we have four million Travelers a year coming through here um so it it it matters and um that's number one I do have a couple questions as far as the use of that property it is a prime piece of property um and it could be used as a as a prime gem piece of property for the city if we need that property but you're saying we have property that we don't really need it the well yeah but we also have a drastic change of elevation on this piece of property that's costly to build on uh but there's that so if we if we're not going to use it okay but I have some questions on number one uh on 13A um Rafel could you find will we pull that up maybe um it's about so test and environmental audit um so my question is you're willing to do the testing and of the soil for contaminants and and hazardous whatever okay and you it says the seller shall have seller shall have no obligation to remediate any such condition so I guess my concern is um would you all if anything were found would you all intend to do the cleanup or would that kill the cell it would probably kill it depending on what is let me back up a little bit I've done projects before that had dirty groundwater right and typically what we will do is get the state involved and they will put in an in infiltration system that has Wells underr and they keep testing the water and it's running through a infiltration system and when it's you know two years down the road and all the little nasties are gone the state will issue a a letter no further action letter and we I personally have done sites before where I've coordinated with them or where they put their wells in conjunction to where I do my development now if the state will not be involved or won't be will not get involved for whatever reason that may be I'm GNA find that out on my dime and if they say you know it's a $2 million cleanup and we're not touching it then and I'm not interested right okay all right um but he's not going to drag us out for 13 months either however in section three uh or Whatever item number three is let me find that real quick in the it's under um purchase sale agreement uh um anyway 180 day examination period yes sir right for you all but it says buyer can terminate the agreement at its sole discretion anytime during that six months that is correct for any any reason whatsoever well let's say I can't get DT curb Cuts let's say that the water contamination is there and Florida Environmental Management won't touch it uhhuh so yes I'm I'm the one that's going out there spending the money to find all this stuff out right okay um and then there would be another 180 day period but could you explain that real quick because I I'd have to read it again yeah beyond that so we put up uh $220,000 I think is what I put in there on the earnest money or I can certainly put less but um and at the end of the 180 days I'm going to know if we're going to move forward with this project or not because of the things I just mentioned to you then I've got to go ahead and finish getting plans put together with Architects and engineers and present them to your planning department uh it has been my experience that most of that stuff takes at least six six months um I'm hoping it gets done in six months I've been in places where it takes a year and a half right but uh that that is the plan okay so that that length of time and it does take time there's so many Hoops that you have to go through to do something like this and understand it but we could be you know we could be a year out easily we could be six months out and start all over again um so as we're back to that soil issue and that and that testing so you know I I'm I'm I'm almost of a mind if if we're if we're going to end up having to clean it up to sell it anyway why don't we do the testing and decide what we need to do with the property um so I I don't know that's just my thoughts on it um just a quick question this is there was a Mr Atkinson and I were talking no action that when we went EP who was it that they kept on us yeah we can just treat it as if there's we we're back to Ground Zero when it comes to D and any of that stuff um because we didn't the bank didn't move forward anything further we didn't move anything forward further so we're we're restarting I mean essentially that's what's going to happen U Mr Mr Mount um under number three number four it seems like number three that 180 day period in which you put the $20,000 deposit that's the only period in which you have the ability to terminate within 180 days the 180 days expire bues you move we move forward with sell the property as long as everything's been met and I put in another $20,000 and in the next 180 days they put another 20,000 down and then move forward getting permitting at that point we're selling the property you're moving forward the only termination I see here is that if there is a uncured seller's default otherwise provided herein for that and both of those deposits go toward the purchase of the property that was correct okay thank you okay so I guess we need to s a question there I thought we had but do we want to sell this property before we you know settle those uh commission issues or whatever as a practical matter you don't have an objection to obviously the venue Clauses being citus in the Florida no I apologize that I think that's just boiler plate from the firms from the way I read it so make sure we got that that is no big deal before I asked my question we were talking about the 5% are you willing to wave that I'll reduce the price two mil7 181,000 got it that's if that's ify cut it out because it's a wash Mr ainson what C can you propose or build me a motion that would Encompass everything we've spoken about here to clean this up because that's quite a bit I think if you were to Simply make a motion to approve and enter into the contract with the changes that have placed on the record here today including the purchase price reduction and removal of the Commission in exchange of the purchase price reduction that would be sufficient so moved second and now Rafael has his work cut out for those minutes be a lot more and that's what I wanted him to do instead of me okay so I'm the one at fought okay he'll be mad at me well I have this in word so it's not gonna be hard to change the contract yeah Motion in a second U questions comments yeah so I mean really the only only thing that gives me uh a concern is the reduction but I mean it's just matter of where everyone feels on this I'm not going to tank it for that amount to be honest um I would just like to get to some resolution on dorms what we're dealing with and someone's going to do that investigation and we're gonna get it done honestly that's worth that amount to me that's how I'm looking at it so that's that's my take on that part yeah and then our conversations with Mr Mount they're very familiar with the process I believe we're going to get to that point or he's going to get to a point to where it's it be beyond what you want to see that's when you'll know when he comes back terminate whether he moves forward or not okay any comments from the public go ahead Mr Mark than let you have it thank you Mark hambley next Springs 14 months ago I raised the same issue that councilman Harrison raised about this is the the key entry point to our city and I hope we don't don't miss the fact that we must make sure that something's there it's make people proud hope Fan Springs there's the whatever it is there's the you know the the car repair shop there's the gas station Cumberland gas we don't want that no and I I was very happy to see none of those projects were once which the company done previously I saw an awful lot of CVS Pharmacies maybe they won't do that because of hollers thesis you have Wallgreens you got to put a put a CVS in the same location um but I also saw Dollar Tree all sorts of stores that I'm not really sure is what we want this in our city so hope as we go through this supplying process I know because of the zoning we don't really have much control I feel more comfortable if we get some kind of assurance that the building which is built whatever is built there is in conformance with our historic character is a building we all be proud of as its main entry point to our city of experience thank you thank you but I'll say this we had big signs out here we we aggressively tried to sell this property and so uh we weren't completely smothered with offers uh but uh so you know you can only do so much you know we certainly if we wait another 40 years we'll get a good offer on there you but anyway uh anyone else yes sir we've got a whole lot of oil change places and credit unions and fast food joints and things that really don't do anything no amenities nothing that really brings quality to our community yeah and I'm just wondering the way our City Zoning planning zoning is um are these things that we've already got plenty of um property rights is he going to be able to put on you know like a tum thumb or uh another car wash or or change or credit union and you know just more of the same without really upping our game here um will he be allowed to do that and he basically could but he's not but uh are you at Liberty to say what it is yes sir mayor it's my understanding Mr Mount is kind of the intermediary between whoever would own and develop the property as long as what their project is they submit meets Our Land Development code and all the rights where they're in we have to you know respect their property rights and such so but we can always continue to take the counsel and the Public's wishes to them Express those to those but they have a right under for Law and our codes to do so once we agree to sell it then it could be another car was Tech we would all love to pick exactly what we want here but you know that just doesn't happen um I would not be in favor of this thing if I thought it was going to be a gas station or Hamburg joint or dollar store but it could be it could be well let me see if there's any other comments first yeah any other public comments yeah go ahead so um the the sale of any individual property or the own and ownership of any individual property does not uh prohibit the council the city from putting in restrictions and requirements in terms of massing setbacks now we can't say what business is going to be in there we can't say a Dollar Tree versus a a Prada store we can't say that but we can say what retail has to look like so we can protect our character but owning the property is only first step we can until any until they actually apply for a planning uh development order until we change we can change our rules in advance of that so ownership and the current land Ed does not purely restrict it once they apply for permits in yet we're locked in but that's why we're working on the things we're working on that's why we're trying to update Our Land Development code and our comp plan that's why we're doing the downtown district so we can get the character that we want um and as soon as we get that code written anyone that's applying for a permit after that day four then yes they have to follow those policies and those regulations but until we get them changed we are in danger we are in danger and we've talked about that but the sale it doesn't matter who buys it if we sell it anyone can do whatever is allowed within the current code until they apply for permit could we Tighten Up Our Land Development code to make it more uh we're actively doing that citizen friendly before it gets to the point of the Land Development code we've been we've been working on that with the land use committee uh throughout the process and trying to include the CRA and uh even the planning board was some members of the planning board were trying to reach out to actually begin that process as well so yeah we're actively working towards it um but you gotta be careful citizen friendly you know sometimes that's more business friendly and people have different views of of what that means and that's why it's such a slow process because when you make big changes like this it requires a lot of public input and it gets very expensive and it's slow on purpose not because I like it slow I like it to move ahead I know I think I know what people want in certain places um I feel like I do I mean it's my job I do it for a living but the problem is that the changes happen slow on purpose because people are trying we're trying to protect people from US government and that's that's a inherent conflict that we Face dayto day with our job is it in District it is not all right uh we have a motion and second all in favor say I I I I no I Carri thank you very much um thank you Mr M appreciate reach out tomorrow we'll make those changes and execute accordingly thank you thank you okay let's move on to uh C 3c4 thank you mayor uh so this is a request from Public Works utilities to R position and so prior to the fiscal year 20 24 budget the city did have a public works director um during that year uh or fiscal year 23 there was a vacancy at which time the inter manager at the time decided to change that position and fund a project manager I'm not asking to alter any existing positions or individuals within the city I'm simply asking to reinstitute this position um I do have there are funds within the water department to support this in this fiscal year um we would have to postpone an elective project so to do this but at this point I've been here long enough now almost a year I see the necessity for this um I've try my hardest to keep up with it and do it and we do such but I don't see where progress is going to be too fast um with as much as I'm having to oversee so um I see the necessity in this and so I ask for approval to Institute that position uh and fund accordingly Mr Mayor go ahead which which project was it we're going to post on this again Mr I can find the exact GL but uh we have budgeted to redo the city's U meter reading uh hardware and software um that is not a necessary project as is some of our maintenance some bigger maintenance ones we have budgeted this year it is something needs to be done in time but I need the appropriate staff on hand to oversee that project and implement it correctly um because it's going to be key it's essential um as we go to changing over software systems we need to make sure they're correct and we're talking about people's water meters go ahead I make a motion to approve the director position second I have a motion second you I'll say I was I was kind of disappointed the way we changed we went took away the Public Works director uh that that is just a staple we need to keep in place I thought that was a mistake to try to set up three superintendents to run all that that which you know they did get an increase in pay to take up a lot of that responsibility but um it's just not working that well and we need that we need that go between you certainly between the manager and all the departments in the field yes ma'am I I always want to support what the manager needs my problem is however prior to him being there the person that sat there before made the decision that we'll do three superintendents in lie of uh eliminating that position the problem is it's going to continue to increase our budget year after year with uh raises uh retirement increases and I am very concerned that I know we're trying to get some projects done and this is only going to continue to increase I understand that a portion of it will be taken from special Revenue funds but at the same token at least 50% will probably stay and have to be applied towards the general fund and that will continue to increase each year so um I just need to ponder I want to listen to what everybody else says but may made quick clarification the uh the structure Public Works Mr ainson maybe that had happened in early in early 2022 the shift in public works so we had a public works director and three superintendents from that time so taking the Works director away in 2023 did not con it didn't change anything there was already superintendent there um so no unto my knowledge um there were no pay raises associated with the vacancy of the public director so those changes and organizational shifts occur prior to the beginning of 2022 under uh city manager Robert Thompson is that that's my recollection okay so just to clarify that had already CI to didn't get a substantial raise no I'm not saying they didn't at that time what I'm saying is when the when that happened the public work structor was still there here there P existed in 23 when it came vacant and the interal manager at the time got rid of it and create a project manager those three individuals did not receive raises due to the vacancy of the Public Works director to my a reassignment of it we don't operate on an FTE system but it was effectiv a reassignment of an FTE it was not a reassignment of Duties with increased Sal correct yeah I was not what I I talking about when the jobs were created yeah that that were substantial back then in 22 22 okay because I I mean this is no put down on any of the superintendant but you know it's like they were given a position and a good salary that I felt like they going to have to work into because most of them didn't even have the experience really uh to to be a superintendent of as much responsibilities as they had so uh I think the money match theob job description I just don't think that they had matured into that job description for day one you know that's something and that happens a lot of times with job positions people will get one and they really uh don't have the skills and all to fulfill yes ma'am Kobe what what are these additional projects that we would need that position filled for the public works director I mean what because if if we did realign this and then we hired an additional position of a project manager what is the what is it that is your vision for this so we currently have three superintendents one over Transportation maintenance and utilities U and we have we currently have a project manager on staff now uh that project manager does not have um employee like responsibility supervisor responsibilities they they solely manage projects for the city and anything that I assigned to them associated with it that the purpose of this and you know every other local government and I mean probably the State of Florida except for a couple that are well smaller than we are uh this is a key position because me getting pulled in 15 different directions with 12 different direct reports is really hampering my ability to provide to you the outcomes that I expect to see from myself and my departments um on top of that you know utilities needs special attention someone who has the ability to put that effort into that long-term planning um it needs to be there as well and so again can I do it Absolutely I'll do anything the five of you and the mayor asked me to do um but if you want to see the city operate in an efficient manner and effective manner this is this is what I I believe is necessary Mr Mayor every before these meetings when we get here a lot of times we get to spend some time with the city manager and speak about the agenda that's coming up what issues we may have with some of the things that we see where we'd like to see this the city grow and go and um and then there's some things that that can quite honestly just be embarrassing that everybody tries to fix so that it's never created a bigger issue for us um for the past two years that I've been here one of the things that continuously hits us is the sewer plant at one point we felt like we were at Max Capacity and we're about have to build a plant right now if not what what's the outcome of that going to be then there was the no we we lacking some of the pumps that that are not in the lift stations that are supposed to be there then there was the the inflow and the outflow for lack of better terms and trying to gauge that plan determine where we're at where we're going in the future and then there's the council speaking with the public and trying to determine different things about what are your feelings on how we're going to can move forward in the future how are we going to fund these projects how are we going to keep things going while there's many complex components of this city but from the airport the cemetery to the roads for the the sewer plant water they all have to be maintained and kept moving forward if we don't the cost of picking those projects up once they're um three and four years in Ruins can be astronomical when we could have kept moving all along I I realize that this one position is going to be far more than what it is today with here in order to fix the issues that we have with Wastewater sewage is this person is going to take a lot of those burdens off of what we have today and try and help move forward now whether or not this Council agrees as the whole which direction we take on this in the end I still think that this director is going to is who the city manager needs in place to help him continue to help the city grow and move forward yes ma'am well those three super intendance report to your public to this position correct is there any other ones that will will the project manager then or will yes so the three superintend so the original structure when that was redone in 22 those three superintendents report directly to the public works director and that's the same we're keeping now uh since then the PO project manager has been added and they will report to the public works director as well and then the administrative assistant within that department would also in order to offset future costs if any of those turn over would you be willing to downgrade them from a superintendent back to where they were prior to uh or do you believe that where they're at they should I think there I don't know about those those three positions um again nothing to do with individuals I'm never going to talk about the individuals about the position exactly I'm not so I don't the way the city structure now no not on those three the the other two there's opportunity to look at as people come and go and as the city's needs to change um but I always as you know I always when we come to budget time find ways to offset the cost I put a burden on this Council in the city um and I can guarantee I'll do that and just one final question can you could do you think you could survive through until the budget cycle in order to implement this during the normal course of the upcoming budget because we are very close to it but could you live that long without that position yes do do I want to no but I will and you said you said if the if we did adopt it now you would find you would eliminate the metering program that we adopted in the project for fiscal year that has to deal with the software and hardware for our metering system the metering system would be postponed would you share with us how much that that line item I take so it's uh it's in water so it's 400 triple 0 533 and the last four digits are 6423 it's $452,000 and how much of that would you need to reallocate uh based off of uh what it would the total cost to employ this position at the I'm going to just say worst case scenario the top of the range is this position Falls in our pce scale you'd be looking at a total cost of employee summer between 145 155 that's benefits taxes everything included and how much of that general fund say how much of that would be general fund so this year if we take this it would be obviously 100% water fund but moving forward it would be a 50% general fund 50% busted up between the three utilities so you're saying that you would use all 100% water fund even if for this project for this year dis position if we were to hire it if you were to approve it today and I got someone here mid-February you're looking at paying about 80% of that cost to employee in this fiscal year it's not budgeted so that would come out of this line item of 452 for this year next year it would be split amongst the general fund and the three utility funds so your general fund will be C baring the cost about half of that total cost to employ I do think there's opportuni to offset some of that cost with some movements we've already had um the cemetery for as you all know Chris M resigned just because he that's what he's been planning to for a long time what he's doing now um we are going to downgrade that position something it's more flexible for the city and makes more cents and that'll be roughly I mean this new person will be their total cost employee be roughly half what he was cost employee so you know you're talking another 30 to $35,000 reduced from our general fund transfer to the cemetery in doing that so okay all right thank you so I would I would just say that I would not postpone it for a couple reasons one um this position is needed in order to implement the water meter upgrade because they actually have to set up the system and establish the priorities for the replacement and oversee the actual installation so that person is going to be assisting significantly with that coordination which is what their role is coordination um also we know how long it takes to hire you know especially director level positions it can take it could take a year I mean yeah you want to get that person in place in February unless unless you've got a line on someone that's ready to go I you know I'm not super optimistic about getting that person in place that quickly I hope you do but we've seen how long it takes to hire people uh and also then get them up to speed so that then by the time the next budget year comes around and we do begin to look at the other meter implementation and other projects are coming forward we need that person in place for that that that original uh elimin the elimination or not it wasn't eliminated it just wasn't rehired yeah it wasn't resubmitted so again what we had a situation that was really treated meant to be a stop Gap um they the additional let's say responsibility was placed on those uh managers because they were a high paying and capable position we can only do that for so long without the critical coordination that you're providing now but that ultimately a public works director would provide and that coordination is what's so important when we had tried to do some of the road work and trying to get some of the budgeting for what we're going to do you know how much do we need if we're going to you know pave X or what are we going to accomplish if if if we do get that sales tax that didn't work out um it took forever to get a number when we finally get a number it's like we just never had that much money so we figured that would work I like well you need a you need a director that can tell you that answer and you need that director to be working with Mr ws and the plane Department to talk about what's coming next what development is happening where's the next road going to be paved what is the next area that we need to upgrade from you know rural to sidewalks with lighting we need a director to help coordinate that and work with the other uh director level positions to be able to do that otherwise that burden is fully on the city manager that's okay for a year six months fine maybe 18 months but to to do it just an ongoing basis just doesn't make sense come right back to you I I have a question and it is this at one point the council was considering an engineer for that position should you go in that direction would you get any relief say from the contractor that you have now for sewer and that kind of thing where there are continuing problems so that was I initially weighed that um so we talked about some of that um you know looking when people come to apply that'll definit be looked at as a you know part of the qualification process which is in there um and also as a preference you know the thought process comes down to um how much is it going to cost to pay someone that has those skills and those ability so are we willing to do that um not saying that anyone else isn't capable of doing it but we do have engineering firms hopefully that'll be something we discuss tonight um and I thought about that what's what's the cost offset of that individual being able to perform services that we do Outsource uh this time I I didn't see the the real cost benefit to that difference than what we would pay for someone versus that um so that's how I came to this conclusion um yeah an engineer would be expensive but probably beneficial but I I don't see our our City's slowing down uh in in growth you know Kobe and I rode around a little bit a week or so ago and there happened to be another Break um was it the fluent line Val line so yeah yeah one of those those valves and and there you know I was thinking this guy has to respond to all those things and and while he does his office is vacant his phone's not being answered you know he's not handling bigger things that could be coming down his pipeline uh so that's what a public director uh Public Works director is for is to handle some of that stuff be in the field when those guys call and say we've got a break here we've got this we've got that the other and and for him for the city manager regardless of who it is to have to do all that is it's taken off the table what um his expertise really really is and Co Kobe I think where all find it out is a pretty brilliant guy uh and he just needs time for his brain to work and handle some of these things and stay ahead of problems and let that Public Works director uh fi them and and and take care of things and and work these three supervisors and those guys they're they're running all over the city all the time putting out fires no no offense Chief uh uh cheffield but uh they're not really putting out fires but they are taking care of problems um and and those those three guys you know work very very hard and I think overall for the city um I if if we think we don't need it today we're going to need it in three months we're going to need it six months it's it's here and and our manager regardless of who it is again and we want to provide everything we can for Kobe we we definitely need somebody uh in this position in my view okay can I ask last question please um how many direct reports you have right now uh that's too many 11 12 that's too many Mr Mayor yes motion to approve second yeah have a motion okay good let's go let's go to the vote all in favor say I yeah we've been having come on yeah come on we gonna beat this horse to death KOB in your opinion have we got anybody inhouse that is up to speed already knows what our problems is that would be able to handle this I'm gonna allow any internal applicant to apply as any external applicant and we'll go to the process just the same okay as as the skill level goes needed to do this job do in your opinion do we have that in house in respect I don't believe Mr Townson should be addressing the Personnel qualifications of anyone applying for this position believe the statement for against or otherwise would be deemed prejudicial to anyone wishing to apply and would likely subject us to litigation thank you anyone else all in favor say I all I I I I Carrie thank you very much all right Mr K we're g probably gonna have to take a break here in just a few minutes but let's go ahead to 35 3c5 okay mayor Jesse if you'll pull that for a second and just let go that map so uh Council the mayor and I uh plane director and Mr K moroe with Jacobs met with an individual who owns some property here just North of city hall north of of 90 uh they're looking to find ways to access that property and you'll see here before you that brick building you see down there is uh the electrical component building to lift station 9 which is just to the Northwest you'll see a little bit of Jesse if you'll put your mouse on that for everyone now go up a little bit to the left come down down come back never mind um you see the little box so the station components are you know within 20 ft or so um the individual would like to find a way to access that property which is uh clear and flat uh they would have substantial drop off from Highway 90 and so at the end of the day they've came and they have offered to the city for access to that rideway um to remove that building and replace all electrical components within it um stick those on lift station9 which is common to our lift stations here in the city uh at their cost to replace the components of it in the value of roughly $45,000 and so Mr M the individual we met with he is here in the crowd today if you have any questions um staff recommends we we move forward with that and approve it they would have to do all applicable review planning and everything else associated with our development to ensure storm water doesn't appe on our lift station we have to have adequate access to uh reach the lift station in the case of a failure or pump replacement as well and we would talk to them also about maybe some additional barrier so that no one drives over it uh going around that space so again we just bring to you what they have offered to the city which is $445,000 in electrical equipment and insulation of that equipment in l RI of way access motion to approve can question second if we one for discussion yeah I'll do it for discussion okay I go ahead um on the now U Mr M would in install this equipment correct that's our understanding Mr M would purchases and installs equipment as a licensed electrical contractor so so my question who who does this for us when we have to replace a panel on other liist stations so typically depending on the cost um Jacobs has has usually done that for us when it's been minor components of such nature and uh we could you know we would typically have to bid it out at a certain price but they typically will replace those for us of course the city would buy the equipment and they would install it yeah what would our typical price be when we bid those out Kyle what do you what do you I mean assuming his $45,000 was correct I'm going to assume to replace all those electrical compon it it be $45,000 come on up with today's prices it could be anywhere but I think that's significantly doable um most of the electrical components in that building was just replaced so actually the components that he has to add isn't a whole lot what we're going to do is we're going to take that building demolish it because it is old and there's also a generator in there the city the city can sell if they want to um and just move all the new electrical components over to the wet well where where they're trying to look at over here that's where the wet well is move it all over there make it uniformed put a gate and kind of mimic what the city is doing with the newer lift stations to make it all uniform and that way he has access and it adds value to the city so in my personal opinion I think it's win-win in my my opinion yes ma'am can they write the language so it says market value so we don't lose anything so if it does if it's more than the 45 then we need to say whatever the market Bears uh reasonable so that we're not uh losing anything and then my next thing is is this there an annual fee for this uh right away uh because they're GNA need that every year correct well Mr a can speak on the rideway but I mean once they put the road in it's it's their Road and they have access to the RightWay in I mean it's RightWay anybody operate RightWay they're just asking to do RightWay improvements to be able to access their site and right now we have a building in that RightWay so corre if if the road was located 30 foot to the West you know and it was level they wouldn't need to do this they have right away access but they got to go they gotta go through the middle of that building we have at this time no need to move those components so if if this goes through could we just make sure the language is modified to make it so that correct we can work with him and based off his proposal to the city he was basing the components that need to be replaced and moved and he just put an approximate cost of what it would cost to do such we'll bring back a formalized agreement you're not approving formalized agreement y Mr M has not submitted planning documents to this because he wants the council's approval or denial prior to moving forward so he doesn't get through the process at to change engineering plans so would this be more appropriate for just staff Direction at this point to bring it back we would I think it would be appropriate for the council to approve the agreement for the RightWay improvements subject to an agreement being presented for the council come back on consent agenda go ahead so my concern is you know just simply cleaning up and and you know minor modifications and upgrades to a to a lift station to give up right away it seems low uh in terms of value I think we need to look at what the uh full needs of that lift station are going to be going forward and upgrade to whatever is necessary to operate it in the long term if we're going to do any modifications because just doing a couple of minor upgrades that don't deal with I mean because we've had we've had to you know pump that one uh before manually we had that's the same one is that the same one that someone drove over and damaged the hose on maybe no we that was behind wind Dixie uh someone had drove over one yeah but uh yeah but again it it's that loation is pretty low um you know we need to take all considerations in as to whether we need to raise it and if that means reconstructing more substantially we should do it now um and if not I I would pass on it I just think it's it's that's pretty light in terms of giving up U you know right away from staff I think we're looking at the same as we are lift station number three with a development there as well an opportunity to address needs you know and issues as we're going through this um I believe the liist station is somewhat shallow but the bigger problem at that specific location is a manhole directly north that's the problem associated with I knew there was something over there what just north of this there's a manhole that needs to be raised so L station n isn't really our issue it's a manhole North it's the manhole that's actually on the city's property we shot elevation this around this time last year and I believe Randall has that information I think it's about 9 and three and a half quarters or something like that lower than where the lift station is or higher um and they need to raise it about nine or 10 feet if I remember correctly that was about a year ago so don't quote me on it but I would like to see anything that we're doing to include the upgrades that are needed for the long-term operation this I mean let's face it at the end of the day this is going to be benefiting their their use of the property I mean it's gonna impact the longterm use of this property because you know again I'm sorry I'm mayor you there a noise in the audience I'm sorry oh yeah um so it's going to affect the long-term use of this property if all of a sudden we're going to have you know spills onto their paved area no I I agree I agree with you we need to get it fixed to the level is required for the long-term operation and not just the bare minimum we can do to to get use of it correct I agree with lift station the wet well itself yes agree the the electrical components of which are being transferred are big enough to service a massive lift station yes well beyond what's there now so what's being moved would we would not have to replace again because we just upgraded it to a much higher voltage exactly Yeah we actually just went through the process it was single phase we actually had to upgrade that station to three phase so all the electrical components are fair you know pretty much new um so you're going to take what the city has already purchased and you're just really essentially just removing a brick building and you're just placing it over where the wet well is getting a fence the barricades and making it more uniformed where the city's direction is with the newer lift stations to make it look more uniformed but I do agree with raising the manhole so I would include that okay so do we have a rough costal raising amount I can't give you that I can get Randall RS looked at it I it's also identify an i i as well manholes most of the time they make Riser rings for manholes that are already concreted in and I think they come in either two to four feet sections um and you just buy them and then you just section it up I don't think it's a super cost you know to the city or to the developer uh it should be relatively inexpensive but it's been a long time since I raised a manhole too so um I can't tell you the exact cost because things uh costs nowadays are really really high so I think I want to withdraw my motion at this point Mr Mayor let him come back and have all this stuff worked out and then we can we can deal with it then uh all right so I guess what Tony was suggesting that the developer pay for the raising of the man yeah it's still their long-term benefit because we've had issues there and we need to mitigate it on the front end especially with new development coming in because we know it's going to have more more use okay and where will we get an estimate of what that cost I can put together one if you'd like and give you a little rough estimate um that developer he definitely don't want to know that sure yes ma'am Mr Mayor what uh what number is this lift station nine nine will you please bring back also for us to read what the issues have been on that particular one so that we have all the knowledge because I like all the knowledge of before making a final decision on something like this so that would be very helpful okay yeah we can uh get the estimate on ra rais that lift station I mean the manhole uh what Kyle has had in the past or current months would be great if you got it I can get it thank you so it seems so it seems like the council wants me to go back and negotiate with developer on this subject okay yeah we got some information to get how long will it take probably come up with that number on the LIF lifting man give me a couple days yeah let me make some phone calls I'm just curious Mr M is is is this will this will this be the only entrance in in and out will there be one on the West End no sir there's three entrances in fact you can see one right here off of Highway 9 but what we would rather do is enter from SLO and and drive in that way just to make it a little bit safer so people aren't slowing down and you got people coming all 331 and somebody rearin them right um the type of of uh commercial businesses that would go in in there are not ones that are prone to a lot of customers but still you would have the the the people driving in and and there are already like I said three entrances and they're already set up to use but what we would like to do is just have this as a primary entrance so that if you're driving in you don't have to worry about be being rear ended yeah and the equipment in the little brick building in question is severely Antiquated and if you were to have a breakdown it could take as long as 18 months to get it replaced in the current situation we got with electrical switch gear yes sir thank you that's a that's a steep embankment right there off of 9 that would be very D City Hall Hill right there yeah the ramps are already there but um in fact I cleared out some of that mess the other day and there's a set of stairs going down there that somebody built yeah couldn't see it because all the undergrowth or overgrowth whatever you call it but what we would do was just what Kyle said is we would move the electrical switch gear over by your well we would demolish the brick building right and uh save the slab and just have access in them way just thank you very much could could you just share where's the third entrance uh well you can't see it on that picture if you pull West a little bit but yeah it's on up that way yeah keep coming there there's one right there is that the middle one yeah that's the middle one keep coming Jesse and then there's the third one right there yeah all off 90 so they're all three of them are on 90 you would not turn right at 3 31 and go up around the block and come down sloth well that's how I would would enter it yes I would go and turn right instead of turning left I would turn right turn in over between the Auto Zone and the Family Dollar and come down and come down SLO and drive straight in okay because are these going to be large Vehicles that'll be Main pick up trucks with trailers uh the building would be used by Mechanical Contractors and electrical contractors of which I'm one and uh different kinds of contractors and be coming in with trailers you know job trailers or whatever to usually those are about 16 18 feet long yeah 16 18 feet long uh it's not like um tractor trailer rigs okay thank you thank you all right sorry we couldn't come to AE Jack we got a little more homework to do okay well my proposals just with the electrical switch whatever that manhole that Kyle's talk about definitely needs to be raised up you got sewage coming out of it yeah I know all right we're going to Mo uh do we need to take a little break or no I think we can get through this one fairly quick mayor and you would like I think we get through this one fairly quick okay all right let's do that let's move all right all right we'll go to the uh 3 C6 okay here this is RFQ for continuing professional engineering consultant Services spoken to all you about this um at the end of the day um there's no need in dwelling on what what's occurring what's happened in the past nothing of that nature so I feel that it's in the best interest of the city to go out for bid to find new engineering Consultants um the hope would be to get at least two for the city and so uh this is a bid documents to do such our current provider duberry Engineers would be required to respond to this bid if they' wish to be considered for further uh contractual agreement with the city and so I ask for approval of the RFQ uh says step one and step two we'll need to determine who will be uh the review team so my first request is approval of RFQ for solicitation motion to approve second have motion second questions comments from anyone all in favor say I all right I I I Carrie thank you very much and now we'll go to my second second part second part to that same uh first note these services will not be for the airport we already have a firm for that under a separate contract so we will not be considering airport services in this bid uh part of that is who will do the reviewing of the bids and then the interviews for those bids U we've done in the past where the city council has um reviewed the bids selected who be interviewed conducted the interviews and then voted there accordingly um this RP does require a review team if the council so wishes to do that that is definitely your prerogative It's my recommendation that a team of staff and be conducted to do such of that would be myself the planning director the CRA executive director the mayor and then uh if we were to hire the Public Works director in time they would sit on that if not the utility superintendent would sit on there and so we would get the bids review the bids bring those to all of you to uh recommendation interview and then we would interview those and bring you back recommendations for contracts with the selected firms but is up to the council who wishes to to be that review team Mr Mayor yes go ahead I I'd like to just say I would like to be a part of that uh Team I don't want to see it going away from the Das but that's I'm only one of five so I don't think there's that many projects that it's going to be every council meeting well it's just this one selection it's the selection of who will be on your engineering rotation so yeah you're G to do it one time yeah I would like to be a part of that process as the so so the whole Das could do it you could be councel or councilwoman could sit on review team it's again it's up to the body is that the way it's done I'm good so what we've done in the past Council has been the one to hold conduct interviews and the vote as a whole so all the requirements is associated with such um or if the council felt so they could put Miss heav only review team with staff to review and provide those recommendations the board assuming that's appropriate it seems to be such Mr go ahead I don't have a problem with the councilwoman Hein sitting on the panel with the board of directors like Mr Townson proposed I'm good with that or as Council as a whole depending on how the rest of the council feels so would be the entire Council and that group you mentioned represent either or oh we're going to have final approval anyway correct correct yeah you have two sets of approvals but to be clear if you appoint a committee to do the ranking evaluation and you come in they rank here your one two and three well I don't like one two and three I want five I guess okay we've got to tailor the RFQ to allow you to have that option okay if there's a thought that you want to exercise independent decision making at the council level simply go ahead and do the interviews an evaluation at your level these are your engineers they do report to you that's my Rec that would be my recommendation I for a lot of this stuff having it done internal staff makes the most sense having the council do every single RQ scoring really is counter into but if the council wants to reserve the right for who's going to be on this engineering rotation then just go ahead and don't don't make that committee interv viw it and then create a contradiction that allows somebody to do a bid protest I understand yeah I just think the projects are going to be so huge and we're going to want to have input at least I want to work with that professional I want to know who they are I want to know what their qualifications are I wan to oh sorry I was I was just going to say it's like actually any anything that's a large individual project would come back as a separate RQ for the individual project we're talking about the rotation for ongoing and continuing services but that but that continuing service contract the continuing contract language in Florida statute is crept up incrementally and now has an automatic escalator each year so what's it at now what do we seven and a half seven and a half million is where it went this year on designer project on an individual project construction cost of 7.5 million yeah and then has an escalator each year thereafter yeah so it's not a design fee of seven million it's a full project cost of seven million correct yeah this is just to select those two firms at the end of the day y would approve the agreements for those two firms and then I would do as I have now we issue task orders and those task orders are a certain dollar amount associated with a person policy they had to come before you for approval so TP typically I would I would uh defer to staff because staff is the one that actually has to work with them and has more experience dealing with individual inter in terms of their performance and their abilities to do the task whereas otherwise we're going to be calling staff and asking for an opinion and during your interview process that could get messy and tricky so I I typically would defer on a rotation if it was an individual project I would I would prefer it come to the council but if for for this I tend to prefer it be handled at the staff level however there's a pretty good chance that I'm gonna have you know some kind of connection to at least one or two of the firms so I probably won't be part of it anyway so really it's going to be up to y'all whether you want to do it or not I 75 and it will change this year July one and every July there one it'll go up based on the June June CPI yeah that's gotten high it's 500,000 and study activities now 500,000 where it used to be $50,000 of study work okay Somebody's gotta get on the select committee here so is it gonna be the council or I make a motion that it stay with the council it said the motion will be to issue the AR the motion will be to have the council do the ranking and evaluation I I'll second it let's just okay Mo second any other questions comments anyone else all in favor say I there um I I I I car got yourself another little project we will edit the RFP ACC RFQ accordingly uh to associate dates now because we'll have to set those up to review those bids and then to interview them so we'll set those up and appri take five okay all right we're going to move on to our public hearing yes sir all right Mr Wallace we will pick up with 4 A1 first item is a small scale amendment that is quasi judicial in nature uh we will need to swear in anyone including staff wishing to speak on item 4 A1 the second reading of 2025 ssa2 Barry cats requesting to amend the FL property Highway 331 South just north of Myrtle Avenue anyone wishing to speak ask questions we'll need to be swor testimony please stand raise your hold on guys hey guys hold on we're W to swear in anybody wants to speak so I need y'all to be quiet for just a minute here stand raise your right hand repeat after me I do hearby swear or affirm I do hearby swear or affirm that the testimony I present that the testimony I present will be the truth will be the truth the whole truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and nothing but the truth thank you mayor staff's been sworn for the record and those audience participation occur all right m w yeah this is uh the second reading of 2025 ss-02 where Berry crats cats excuse me is requesting to amend The Flume for property located on Highway 331 South just north of Myrtle Avenue the property is currently designated as low density residential on our future land use map the request is to amend that to a commercial designation which would match the zoning of the property so what I'm uh asking for this evening is to approve the second reading and adopt the ordinance approving the map Amendment motion to hold second reading second and adopt and adopt second I have motion second questions comments anyone from the public all in favor say I I I I I I car thank you very much okay so this is an ordinance number to be determined it's an ordinance adopting a small small scale land use map Amendment of the city defunc Springs Conference of plan changing land use classifications repealing all ordinance in Conflict here with providing for severability and conflicts providing for codification and providing for an effective date thank you sir I'll take the next one may go right ahead so the next one is the downtown business district we're actually not asking for you to provide us a first reading tonight um it is presented to you obviously we have four council members Council beerbom was part of this on the code land Review Committee but the biggest reason we're not asking you to go through a first reading is Mr Wallace and I discussed at the end of last week at Great length the issues of our numbering and our Land Development code so brief history not going to make this very long I know might want to break or wrap the meeting up your Land Development code was an appendix to the code of ordinances years ago and about years ago I mean prior to say 2015 and as an appendix it just had standard numbering it didn't comply with codification it was determined it shouldn't be an appendix it should actually be part of the code of ordinances and that is the correct way to do it it was brought in in 2017 when it was done uni code codified all the numbers for us they did not use the city's standard numbering system in doing so from the very first section of section 18 you can have article one section two sub a can be 16-30 then article to Che 1631 there are no Reserve sections so Mr Wallace and I played around with what we can do where we can actually add a zoning District to the Land Development code which is what this is doing and no matter where we pick to drop it in because you get down to the later sections of the code they're all sequentially numbered it is going to require a complete renumbering of the Land Development code to do that is going to require a little bit more presentation and unfortunately the challenge we have is it also amends the title to what the advertised ordinance looks like so we'll have that back at your next meeting with a full first reading U but Mr W has previously provided you a copy of it I don't believe it was linked to the packet tonight or we would go over it but I think in an abundance of caution with um letting the both members of the land juice Review Committee who are here have a chance to speak on it that's what we're looking for so it's not a continuance but just want to give that update Mr Wallace has worked with me on that and he has this in form it is the numbers and so you think it's easy to count I promise you it is but it is literally section 18 1 through 127 and we don't have one blank section in there and if you're familiar code we have section 18 6.30 through 50 reserved and we hold those spaces to allow us the question is how much do we need to add but when we do it is going to change at least seven articles of the code no matter where we drop this might change 12 so we just want to make sure that's right because otherwise we're gonna send this to Muno and they'll do whatever they want again and we'll have a bigger mess on our hands so we wanted to take this I think I have a good idea but it's going to require a much more lengthy ordinance title so I also promise I'll read it for Chris and not may keep stand up there for two and a half minutes reading so I I'll do my best but we'll have that back at your next board meeting thank you sir Chris does get the next one though all right actually I believe it'll be the first meeting in February you're right because we have not advertised for the next meeting right nor do we have time yeah I don't think we're gonna be able to quite hit that deadline but we'll see we I mean it be won't be for second reading yeah we can squeeze it for the last meeting in January we will no we go February yeah okay all right thank you Council than you all right all right so we're going to the 4B yes sir well actually I think we have oh Chris you've got no it's a Cod okay we'll have to take it I don't think Chris Tony do you want to talk about this one do you want me to introduce it um I'll let you go ahead and introduce it it's pretty we we had it last time and we discussed it had to we just did the extension to provide an opportunity to read technically it's under councilman beer bombs name because he but he's not here with us tonight so this is first reading of the chapter 14 nuisances and Hazards and in sanitary conditions which has gone through the code L viiew committee we've met multiple times on it uh we've received multiple input from various citizens who've come to those board meetings as well as Mr Chan our citizen rep um staff has reviewed it with both City Marshall code and legal and so this is first reading so we are requesting a motion to hold first reading for second reading public hearing for adoption motion to hold first reading with discussion to what was the rest of it that's good enough you thank you second I have a motion and second question comments sure so this one uh actually came forward previously uh it was a long section so we uh Mr be bomb felt like it was appropriate to give everyone a chance to digest and go over it um what this does is it provides the definitions necessary for code enforcement to actually do its job because we actually don't have definitions in our code for a lot of the items that we actually are trying to enforce in terms of uh blight um and and uh you know hazardous conditions and some of the problems associated with it so this takes care of that issue uh by providing the definitions by which it becomes enforceable now the big attachment that you see is it adopts the international um what's that technal techn called it's the internationaler maintenance code property maintenance code so the property maintenance code goes into a lot of detail about things that we're not really going to be focusing on from a code enforcement standpoint but we have to have the definitions in place for the uh for the blight remediation that we are attempting to do so again there are things that go beyond what we're going to be seeing on a normal basis um but uh that is part of that code and uh to try to break that up into individual sections would be U honorous to say the least okay we looking for a motion we have a motion a motion I'm sorry okay any other comments yes ma'am the board worked extremely hard on this and I'd like to praise Mr because they kept sending Chris got his leg work in we we did have a lot of discussions around that personal responsibility and property rights issues in terms of you know there's small things like you know if someone what happens if someone's leaving trash on my property you know but again what's my obligation to keep someone from putting trash on my property when is it mine we had a lot of discussion about it and it was at length um but I think it it resulted in a a a good compromise in terms of what um between that personal right and personal responsibility everybody good all in favor say I I I I I I Carri thank you mayor this was an ordinance to be numbered an ordinance of the city of phix Springs Florida repealing and replacing ordinances 485 and 857 in their entirety thereby amending chapter 14 nuisances and hazardous or ins sanitary conditions of the def city of defix Springs code of ordinances it says providing for conflict suff ability and an effective date and we will bring it back get next meeting for adoption thank you very much all right we quickly our CRA Director people please come we talk about the uh Veterans Memorial Josh Harin for the record and I just want to point out here I am again standing in front of you in dinner so I'll be very brief so back uh in in October of last year we had a joint workshop with the board and this Council to discuss the veterans Mor project that we got included in our Redevelopment plan through that discussion uh we learned that we really need to get some more input more specifically with the veterans group so back on November the 7th we met at the DAV and and had a discussion with them on what they would like to see we talked primarily about the concept or the idea that was put in our plan which is a labyrinth there at the intersection of of Main and Circle Drive and we got good agreement on support for that uh idea so at this point we're wanted wanting to move forward with some Concepts so that we can better understand what this thing may look like as you can imagine there are a lot of questions about the details of that particular Improvement would it have Flags what color of the bricks so forth and so on unfortunately we're not really at that point to to determine what that is going to be so we need to move forward with some Concepts there are actually three locations that were discussed at the workshop as uh prospective um locations for the the memorial that we would like to study I think through that exercise so that'd be there at East Main Circle Drive next to the shako hall Brotherhood and then over at the vacant parcel next to the tennis courts so what what I would like to to get from the council is just a nod of of approval to move forward with those Concepts uh put the pen to paper so to speak uh have a couple of different um options for those Concepts in those respective locations get some uh more feedback through public workshops and kind of move forward uh with you know formal design at that point so this is the the very preliminary stages so that we can hire a consultant to take a look at this put together those Concepts do some preliminary engineering to determine elevations and things of that nature uh and begin that you know formal discussion motion to approve uh conceptual designs of the veterans memorial for CH at Chipley Park second motion second uh questions Mr May um I actually attended the meeting with Mr Irving and um and do or Miss Mandy and there was a huge turnout in support of this project um exactly what it would look like was the question still remaining before most of the veterans um but after speaking with Mr irin about this in details for some time now I I agree with the approach we're taking now and that's they they want to get he wants to get approval from his board to move forward and to bring back some of these designs and then get get up get that public Buy in exactly what the veterans want and then to bring it back before the council again so I think we're that's that's what he's wanting to do he's wanting to move forward no no more stop signs let's keep the ball roll and and I agree with you on it at this point JY I just want to clarify is this at the same place that I just hear I I heard you say by the tennis cour but I also heard you say Maine and yeah so there there were those three just heard him did you just say what he's wanting to do is to put together the actual proposals here's what something could look like at this location here was what it could look like here and then to get that public buying through the work workshops three three three yeah so three locations maybe two or three different concepts of what they this isn't the I thought we were all meeting at those special so that the location could be chosen was that completed or or not that was part of the discussion I I think in order for decisions to be made we need to have Concepts so that we can then have better public engagement through workshops to make sure that that is the location wherever it may be that the public would like to see this um constr don't get me wrong I just am trying to clarify because what I remember at that initial meeting I did not make it to the the special one but um I remember seeing some concepts of what was done and I thought that was the then there was some difficulty on we didn't agree with the location and I supported it there in Chipley Park but now I'm here and there's three locations none have been decided on formally yet what we want to do is show you what it would look like at what we want may not be what we're able to get in other words there may be difficulties in any one of those places and we won't know that until somebody gets in there and puts pen to paper somebody with more knowledge than we do you know well we can say we like it here but if it's impossible to put it there we can't so they need a plan B so how much is that that's what the engineers going to give us don't know that's a 2B determin you know we'll have to put either a task order together and utilize the city's continuing Services agreement or go out for an RFQ and hire a consultant to help us with that um it gives us options you know it doesn't um put us in a corner so looking to see if we're in agreement with where you're headed yeah pretty much yeah just the nod of approval again this is the very beginning stages of this um you know we're still trying to learn to walk but in a lot of cases you know we're trying to go a mile without stepping an inch if that makes sense so this is at the very beginning um you know all of these public workshops will be had obviously in the public domain we'll propose these locations and the concepts and then that will be brought back to the CRA board and then the council for further consideration of approval before we ever move forward with the formal design sure any other question or comment uh do we have a motion we yeah I was just gonna say that uh I'm I'm happy to see that they they'll do this because again one of the concerns I had was that the cost of the project would exceed the capacity to build it in other words we want it to actually happen it's great that the C's donating the design or or providing the design uh but again we want to make sure that it can be built by whoever's going to fund it later and that could kill it so uh this also provides an opportunity to do this at a low cost because they can do it in the schematic phase rather than designing all the way through and then agreeing that we have a problem to to fund it so I I I I applaud the uh the consideration of including other sites M Mandy um the veterans pretty much know where they want it I pretty much know where I want but if it's cost prohibited to get a handicapped access to that site we've got to be willing to move on um to have it somewhere you know it's hard to give up what you want from Christmas if you don't get it but if you can get it for your birthday I'll take a blue if I can't get a pink one any other comments all in favor say I I I I I ni car thank you very much thank you Mr Irving uh we'll go to Citizen comments and if you would like to make a comment please come to the podium state your name and if you represent a business please do that as well we our organization come on Diane all right I'll be I'm Miss tired as y'all are but I'm still on this thing about the ray property you're not doing anything about it and it's all falling down we have to do something Kobe we have to do something clay what in the heck can we do I have no personal interest in it landmarks has no interest in it but we need to do something what can we do estate was opened on November 18th 2024 which creates a number of opportunities obviously the personal represent of the estate is required by law to satisfy any leans out of the estate um including the code leans that exist as part of closure of that estate or to agree to sell the property to satisfy them so that's something we'll be working through now that there is an act of estate that is open the most recent action has been um the appearance of additional persons and claimants Within that estate as of the 26th of December property she's referring to property owned by the estate of Dennis Ray specifically that downtown cross from CC talking about downtown and the three properties on Circle Drive that they're all vacant and they're just falling down and this is the most important thing in defunc Springs when it comes to architecture Circle Drive that's your history you got three properties that just look like heck I agree okay so don't give me a lot of words give me some action what can we do well we have our recorded leans right now the estate is required to satisfy those if they fail to satisfy those we'll have opportunities to proceed into foreclosure on the properties if that's what the city decides to do that's not as though that's not front with its own Peril and issues but at this point in time you have an estate who takes the property has not been decided so there's not somebody we can directly reach out to and say do something we have a lean recorded the city has taken the steps it can and its code process has them today so are you saying that we just we got to sit around and wait till the whole thing falls down no ma'am that's not what I'm saying okay tell me in just real language what you're saying Miss picket the process with all due respect the process of going through the remediation of code nuisance and blight can't be said in a few simple words like you're asking I know you don't want to hear that but the problem with this is Mr Ray has been deceased now and on November the 18th was the first time anybody bothered to try to do anything with his properties now we've got a lot of property in the city don't have anything like that so the city has done what it has to do on any of these properties where there's a code violation there has been an order entered by a magistrate that sets a lean finds a crew we have a priority lean on those those are required to be satisfied by the estate if the estate goes through probate which we will make sure they do if they don't they may have to sell the property they can certainly offer the city of deed and L forclosure but what the council actually wants to do with those properties is not something that can be determined sitting right now because we don't know who's going to own it the estate has control of it right now what can we do to Goose them nothing other than what we've already done you're not allowed to manipulate a code process once a lean's in place you can file a foreclosure but there's not a foreclosure to file at this moment they have a right to satisfy debts of the estate is there anyone that anybody could talk to anybody that wants to pick up the phone can call any of the interested persons petitioners or the attorney for any of them that's certainly welcome to the city will be doing that within the normal course of the probate proceeding and give me some kind of time frame I can't speak to what they're going to do in terms of the probate procedure time frame they filed their formal notice on the 25th of November I see no letters of administration issued at this point the first statement of claim came in on the 3 of December um so they're in the early parts of this estate is there anything we can do to talk to the Probate Judge to get him no ma'am absolutely not you're not allowed to go talk to the judges de part them when you're a claimant that's it's absolutely strictly prohibited can I talk to the judge if the judge will but I'd imagine the judge could tell you you're not allowed to talk to them about a pending case before them judges have ethical standards well if I sound impatient I am uh you know this this is a huge problem for the city and I'm I'm just complaining and asking what can we do we've been dealing with this now for what this has been almost three years uh if we wait another three years that same time see Chris S may ask clay a question sure hey Clay is it only one of the downtown properties that's currently into that estate or is it both of them I'm looking now well you're referring to the estate the estate is all assets held by held by Dennis F Ray at the time of his passing and the estate of Brenda Gail Cox Ray has also been named as an interested person in this proceeding so who actually holds each between and his wife it's all between the two okay so it's not it's not just one of the buildings it is it is all of them so there's currently four and C code uh 278 Circle Drive 1264 Circle Drive 782 Balin Avenue 1264 Circle Drive um and then they have non-compliance stes of you know early 23 he don't have the lean they just got the the three the only property that does not have a lean issue this time is 1264 Circle Drive the one downtown has administrative lean issued it's currently see not even all of them have administrative leans at this point as of September 10th they had a lean in the value of $188,200 so none of the leans even hit your Property Disposition policy at this point either well they meet the statutory minimum they don't even satisfy the county the council's resolution of when to proceed with that so while you could under the statute it's not consistent with what the County's council's adopted policy is at this point correct they continue to acrew and eventually they will hit the council's policy but by that time the properties will have fallen down we do actually implemented tonight some additional uh guidance and policies that streng yeah well first reading the the one that we did first reading on tonight actually strengthens teeth of what we have and expands the scope of what we can do because we really weren't addressing the hazards before we were really addressing more from a blight standpoint in a very vague and loose sense we've tightened it up substantially which again is going to provide additional opportunities to uh for other um action additional action yeah additional action is there any way we could get information about who to contact and maybe have a realtor contact that person's deal with I think that's a more of a private entity issue in terms of reaching out I think there are people that are interested in buying the properties um and it and it's better for them to purchase them sooner rather than later but again from the city standpoint that the attorney and the represented person's names are all matters of public record in the court file along with the phone number and email addresses of the attorneys those are required on every pleading call go ahead um Mr Mayor um and uh an need is half and half is a bookstore which is run by the Pres of the library and the building next door is of course the big store which is owned by by the Rays there's obvious mold coming you smell it it's it's a health hazard it's a is there any way we put a lean on that property because for a health reason it is actually part of that can it be condem you can file a complaint with code enforcement they can address it for those reasons and we can also address the nuisance and bl you need to go Mr strong strong with it we can't do reading yeah after second reading we hold the next reading at the next meeting a lot of those things aren't going to be in place to even make a make a report he certainly talk to Chris between now and then then get started but you won't be able to finish it it won't take effect until after our reading so second reading you will have the hazards portion available okay thank you well I have no personal interest in any of these properties but from an historic preservation interest I'm very very concerned and I hope everybody understands where I'm trying to go yeah um two things in addition it to it being a burden for the city it might be an opportunity if you ever wanted to run a House Museum um there's a 1900s one sitting there uh with furnish that would be you make you a lot of money okay by charging admission um um this is my comments were regarding the National Historic Landmark nomination for the shiaka campus just as the holidays began a critique of the latest corrections to the nomination made by the consulting firm were received uh from the National Park Service previously it had been felt that this revision would be the last and that it would circulate to historians historians about the country and move to the National Review Committee in Washington DC for their fall meeting this year however the current review was quite critical of the latest revisions the consulting firm has not made changes recommended in the previous review had not reviewed and cited nominations for from other sakas had not included unique aspects of this chitaqua had contradictory description ions of the same properties from one or more architectural historians and had failed to correct basic English and spelling errors and there's some some other things that I left out the reviews along with the National Park Service critique were forwarded to the five additional members of the core working group and to the mayor because the consulting firm has gone far beyond their contractual timel line the following question was included in um forwarding it is it time to seek direction from the city council regarding consultation with the city attorney about our concerns of specific performance to date three of the six members are of the opinion that this should be done when responses from all Core Group working members are received D and it if if it is acceptable to the council the mayor and the city manager will be consulted prior to seeking a an appointment with the attorney mayor if you Mr tson give me we can coordinate whatever meetings they want say that again mayor if you and Mr Townson will get with me we'll coordinate whatever meetings they want all right good deal you have that rough feel all right any other citizen comment all right we'll close the floor for comment uh clay you got anything else actually I do mayor just very briefly i' spoke to councilwoman heavin this week we've had this question come up it's been quite a while um I think it actually was probably just before you took office Mayor was the last time we had a real big discussion on it and it's the nature of I think we're all familiar with elected officials certainly your state representatives state senators your Congressman you'll see a little receive something on stationary letter from them that says from the desk of from the office of and it's a a document that allows an individual elected official to send something with their official impr premature on it without actually representing that of the entirety of Congress of the Florida legislature we've had City Council Members asked for that before certainly business cards exist question the councilwoman edelyn asked was she was writing a reference letter um and wanted to reference herself of course as a city official which she can do and in doing so she said well what's the appropriate standard can I use City letter head so we know fortunately can't use the city's official letter head but I did advise and I told her I'd bring it up to the whole Council everybody here's my advice all at one time nothing stops a council member from developing a from the desk of your name Council seat whatever City seal as long as it applies the proper color schemes we don't have an ordinance to dictate use standards other than has to be there my only request when you do such is it needs to be made clear it's coming from you not from the city it can't mirror the city's butterhead and it does need to include a standard disclaimer somewhere in the body of the text you're using or is at the footer that simply states that the views stated here in or those of the individual council member or the individual person sending the letter not it may not reflect those in the city as a whole and so if anybody wishes to do that you're well within your rights to do that the same way you're able to generate business cards or otherwise to do that so just wanted to put that out there let everybody know no problem with that we've had councils who've asked for that in the past um now certainly if the council members say that hey look we want to start you know having the city produce us letterhead and things like that that'll have to be a budgeted discussion we'll have to bring that back at later meetings we had a council take a look at that mayor I think you may I guess this really was probably like one cycle before you they looked at it when they figur out the cost they all decid they didn't want to do it but there was a lot of letterhead samples reviewed for about two meetings once upon a time me they couldn't agree and prices got exhorted but I just wanted to put that out there is nothing stops you from being able to do that to act in your official individualized capacities you can't bind the city you can't speak on behalf of the city and those but for the purposes of official Communications with constituents or otherwise that represent your individualized position you're welcome to do so so that's if you have any question question just give me a call and talk about yeah could you could you possibly send us out a gladly FYI guide I'll give you a little T I won't remember all that I'll gladly do it absolutely now I do have one question I've seen I can't remember what document it was in I don't know if it was the policy manual or if it's in the charter or somewhere but I thought anything that we sent out that was on a not official City letterhead but a letterhead that rep representing not binding this city but as a member that it was supposed to be provided to the council I believe and I'll I'll look that back up for you councilman I think that provide it only pertains to the actual letter out of the city okay is my recollection but I'll look that back up for you okay and what would be the official letter head of the city the what they use right now what you see at the top of your agenda everything it comes down the side yeah well it comes down the side but it's does have our names on the side that's what I was thinking that's the letter okay and you're saying don't use that or if we use do not use that not do not use that that's the official letter out of the city use you can generate your own and you I'd have no objection to City seal because we don't have an ordinance that prohibits it but you need to make a disclaimer that you're sending your own you could just give us the disclaimer I'll give you the little I'll work it up for y'all thank you go ahead with your appointment yeah it's a quick one I hope so um CRA board was formed one of the members that was appointed to that by um I don't know how that one was appointed was Joe Johnson and uh since then Mr Johnson has uh resigned from the board and I am requesting to appoint to my C position Mr brute Campbell work uh and his resum has been attached for your review motion to approve second that's great P um any questions comments anyone all in favor say I hi hi hi hi all right brute man okay kobby executive com yep I'll keep you quick mayor um Christmas Reflections went really well this year um I don't believe we had any closures due to power outages or weather I'm so staff did a great job last year weather proofing a lot of that Mak his Outlets were covered and so next year we hope to improve on Christmas Reflections start bringing some new things in reimagine some stuff it up a little bit so we think it went very well and definitely appreciate staff's effort in that and providing that to the city and to the people who came and visited it um and then secondly we will have our Workshop before our next meeting um we're getting late now so I won't soon ask you what should be on it I'll go back from our prior conversations and maybe some stuff uh we've been talking about to set that topic or if any of you right now have something off top of your head that you believe is an important topic needs to be discussed as a whole um please let me know all right we'll go to the council um Mary you might have mentioned this before I don't I don't remember but Saturday January the 11th Miss Francis Jones celebrated her 107th birthday and I just wanted to mention that she's a neighbor down the street from me and um wonderful person but 107 years old that's some of my K hopefully I live on actually she's a laughing house her husband was K me yeah uh I I just wanted to mention unfortunately you know this this last week I ended up attending two funerals but the truth is that um after a quiet uh you know fall and Thanksgiving where we really actually weren't seeing a lot of of of activity at the funeral homes um there has been a respiratory viruses and that's really taking a toll on our elderly Community um I just wanted to say you know one all those folks out there that are have been sick and dealing especially with pneumonia has been popping up a lot um you know we we pray for your your quick recovery um but um also you know with this cold weather I just want people to be aware and cautious that there has been a lot going around please take care of yourselves please you know stay warm don't don't get out there and do that extra raging that you just have to get in in the dark and just you know just stick around for a while longer it's it's been it's been pretty brutal seeing seeing the uh the current ofer listings and and all the um and all the the funerals have been going on so I just uh and and I'm not going to mention anything individually I respect for all the others because there so many but but our hearts do go out to all the families absolutely scum I got nothing Mr same I don't have anything thank you clay for br that up we appreciate everyone's play and participation and we'll call this meeting a journ